Speaker 1: Hi, everybody, it's Charles W. Chuck Bryant here. Why don't
Speaker 1: you jump back into the wayback machine with me and
Speaker 1: we'll go back to April nineteen, twenty twelve for this
Speaker 1: Saturday Selects episode Social Security Numbers colon less boring than
Speaker 1: You'd think, And I gotta tell you it is less
Speaker 1: boring than you'd think. This is a really good episode,
Speaker 1: So check it out. If you didn't think you wanted
Speaker 1: to know about social Security numbers, think again, pal.
Speaker 2: Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of iHeartRadio. Hey,
Speaker 2: and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W.
Speaker 1: Chuck Bryant aka two eight six five four seven five
Speaker 1: two three.
Speaker 2: Dude, you can't come out your social Security number. I
Speaker 2: just made that up. I thought about that. I thought
Speaker 2: about what if I like ended up when we were
Speaker 2: describing like what the different numbers were. Yeah, I was like, well,
Speaker 2: my have to be this one. If you listen to
Speaker 2: the whole podcast, you could put together a social security number.
Speaker 2: And I was like, don't do that, Josh, don't.
Speaker 1: We should probably beep out what I said anyway, because
Speaker 1: that might be someone else's social Security number.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't want to be responsible for that.
Speaker 2: Okay, we'll go back and beat that out. That's really
Speaker 2: some CoA right there. Why how do you know that
Speaker 2: that person would be there? Like, yes, you should notice
Speaker 2: called me out serial number? Why I want a contest.
Speaker 1: I can pay for my own hotel in Atlanta to
Speaker 1: go see the guys.
Speaker 2: But just me, so Jerry like that? Yeah? So chuck, josh.
Speaker 2: Uh do you know much about social security?
Speaker 1: A bit?
Speaker 2: You're about to chuck?
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 2: The Social Security Act of nineteen thirty five, Yes, created
Speaker 2: by our old timey forebears, basically created a scheme, and
Speaker 2: not scheme in the way of like a carbon trading
Speaker 2: scheme or something like that. I know you don't like
Speaker 2: that word, but it's a legitimate word. It doesn't necessarily
Speaker 2: mean something nefarious. Right, But under this scheme, social security
Speaker 2: is given to retiring workers, yes, in the month, in
Speaker 2: the form of a monthly payment, where basically it says, hey,
Speaker 2: good job, you did a good job working. Go take
Speaker 2: care of yourself. We don't want you to die on
Speaker 2: the street. Sure, this should hopefully sustain you in your
Speaker 2: retirement years. Right. This is before the advent of four
Speaker 2: oh one k's and the like.
Speaker 1: Right, this just thirty five bucks a month.
Speaker 2: Right, Well, the whole basis of it is that the
Speaker 2: workers of today pay into the Social Security fund and
Speaker 2: it is immediately taken and distributed dispersed to workers who
Speaker 2: have retired today. Yeah, so the workers of today are
Speaker 2: taking care of the workers of yesterday. That's the whole
Speaker 2: point too. It So this has led some people to
Speaker 2: claim that the Social Security program is nothing more than
Speaker 2: a Ponzi scheme where you're taking the money of these
Speaker 2: people to pay off other people, or socialism even Oh,
Speaker 2: it's totally different. It is socialism.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but people cry socialism a lot these days, and
Speaker 1: they don't think about things like social security in all
Speaker 1: the different ways we do have socialism that people are like, oh,
Speaker 1: that's fine.
Speaker 2: Right, sure, yeah, Well but you can make a case
Speaker 2: that it is a Ponzi scheme. Sure, but Stephen Goss,
Speaker 2: chief Actuary for the Social Security Administration, would take issue
Speaker 2: with that.
Speaker 1: I'm sure he would.
Speaker 2: He would say it's not a Ponzi scheme because a
Speaker 2: Ponzi scheme is not sustainable.
Speaker 1: Some might argue that social security is not sustainable, and
Speaker 1: that is, as we say here in the South. That's
Speaker 1: a whole nother show.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, well I won't talk about it anymore.
Speaker 1: Well, what do you have some numbers on its sustainability? Well,
Speaker 1: we can chat about it.
Speaker 2: Here's the thing. So if you just if you had
Speaker 2: zero population growth, this thing would work forever, right, and
Speaker 2: it would work completely efficiently with no changes whatsoever. Unfortunately,
Speaker 2: we don't have zero population growth, and we actually had
Speaker 2: a spike in population that we know of as the
Speaker 2: baby boom, right, which means that very shortly and starting now,
Speaker 2: I think more, there will be way more retired workers
Speaker 2: than there are workers, which means that the workers of
Speaker 2: today are going to have far greater burden placed on
Speaker 2: them taking care of these retired workers than any other
Speaker 2: workers ever.
Speaker 1: Have or will.
Speaker 2: But Stephen Goss, chief factuary for the Social Security Administration,
Speaker 2: says this will eventually work itself out. The government's taken
Speaker 2: steps to address this, and what is done is raise
Speaker 2: the amount of money that people throw into this. And
Speaker 2: they're taking the extra money, and the government is buying
Speaker 2: treasury bonds, investing in itself. Now here's the weird thing.
Speaker 2: When they come mature, these bonds, the government pays these
Speaker 2: things off with other tax money. So the government is
Speaker 2: going to pay the Social Security fun back with other
Speaker 2: tax money.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Now, this will drive people crazy, conservatives, libertarians, liberals, right
Speaker 2: leaning liberals, right fiscally conservative liberals especially, But Stephen Goss
Speaker 2: assures us it's just a little bump. We're probably not
Speaker 2: going to have another population spike for a while, and
Speaker 2: Social Security will go right back to normal. It just
Speaker 2: sticks for us right now.
Speaker 1: Right. The other thing that I'd never really thought about
Speaker 1: is it could not have been a sustainable program even
Speaker 1: to begin with, because you start Social Security and when
Speaker 1: was it, nineteen thirty five? Yeah, people started getting paid out,
Speaker 1: you know, a year later, two years later, and so
Speaker 1: they weren't paying in that long. So immediately you've got
Speaker 1: a problem on your hands because people are starting to
Speaker 1: get payouts that didn't pay in for twenty years.
Speaker 2: Well saying, yes, that is the case, but they were
Speaker 2: smaller at first.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it still creates a bit of a wrinkle.
Speaker 1: I think that would wrinkle in time for the future.
Speaker 2: I think so. But it was a hump that had
Speaker 2: to be gotten over, and it was gotten over, like
Speaker 2: basically the first people just got screwed.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, well, but they didn't pay in that much
Speaker 1: either though, So.
Speaker 2: No, and that's true. So they were rightly screwed. Okay,
Speaker 2: so let's talk about the history of all this chuck.
Speaker 2: And by the way, I guess the takeaway from the
Speaker 2: intro social Security is considered a.
Speaker 1: What a punt sis scheme.
Speaker 2: I think people were just in there, like say, I know, all.
Speaker 1: Right, well you already you already blew the big secret
Speaker 1: there the Act of nineteen thirty five. It was coined.
Speaker 1: The name social Security was coined by Abraham Epstein, who
Speaker 1: led the American Association for Social Security. Yeah, and they
Speaker 1: began paying out in thirty seven, like you said, yeah,
Speaker 1: just for workers, right, and it was.
Speaker 2: The biggest wage journer of a household basically the dad,
Speaker 2: right got the money as the retiree. Yeah, and it
Speaker 2: was a lump something, right.
Speaker 1: They didn't pay it in monthly buckets back then.
Speaker 2: Tell him what the first guy who got social Security
Speaker 2: got his lump sum.
Speaker 1: Yeah, his lump sum was was it seventeen cents?
Speaker 2: Yeah, in January nineteen thirty seven. He was the first
Speaker 2: guy to get Social Security benefits. And I lickd it up.
Speaker 2: That's two dollars and fifty five cents in twenty ten money.
Speaker 1: Oh wow.
Speaker 2: So even back then he was just like, hey, federal government,
Speaker 2: I got some in my pocket for you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Josh just made an obscene gesture. We should just
Speaker 1: say that. In nineteen thirty nine, just two years later,
Speaker 1: they added survivors benefits and benefits to spouses and children.
Speaker 1: Flash forward to fifty six, they added disability benefits. Medicare
Speaker 1: was signed into law. Yeah, and in sixty one, the uh,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. In sixty one sixty two, the Civil Service
Speaker 1: Commission and the IRS adopted the Social Security number as
Speaker 1: your official federal ID number and taxpayer ID number, right respectively.
Speaker 2: Which is a kind of a thing because the first
Speaker 2: Social Security cards specifically said on them not to be
Speaker 2: used as identification. Yeah, but they never made a follow
Speaker 2: up law to enforce it, and so everybody's like, no,
Speaker 2: it's perfect for identification.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll always remember it because of this card in
Speaker 1: my wallet.
Speaker 2: We'll use the mark of the beast as identification.
Speaker 1: The first numbers, because this is not just about Social
Speaker 1: Security but more about the numbers, which is more interesting
Speaker 1: than I thought. Slightly, Yeah, it was. They were distributed
Speaker 1: through the post office because they didn't have field offices yet.
Speaker 1: So yeah, forty five thousand post offices took the initial
Speaker 1: task to type up. These cards are called typing centers.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So basically this is what I This is the
Speaker 2: part I entitled bureaucracy. Ho right, Yeah. The Social Security
Speaker 2: Administration contacted all employers in the United States and said, hey,
Speaker 2: this is a form SS four and on it you
Speaker 2: just list the number of employees you have working for
Speaker 2: you mail it back to us. And so all the
Speaker 2: employers filled out I have fifteen employees and then mailed
Speaker 2: the SS four back to the Social Security Administration. Social
Speaker 2: Security Administration opened up the SS fours and they said, okay,
Speaker 2: this employer has fifteen employees, so we're going to mail
Speaker 2: him fifteen SS five forms, which are basically signing up
Speaker 2: for your Social Security number.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Right, So they mailed the fifteen back, probably in one package,
Speaker 2: to the employer, and the employer distributed them among his employees.
Speaker 2: The employees filled out the SS five forms and they
Speaker 2: sent them back to the Social Security Administration. Social Security
Speaker 2: Administration said, oh, okay, now we have these and we're
Speaker 2: going to assign social Security numbers, right right. They said, hey,
Speaker 2: go to your post office the post Office gave them
Speaker 2: the social Security numbers. The Post Office then sent that
Speaker 2: duplicate form to the Social Security Administration, who created the
Speaker 2: master file of all of these documents put together, which
Speaker 2: was your social Security.
Speaker 1: Number file, and that was sent to Maryland.
Speaker 2: Yes, and then in Maryland is where it all came together.
Speaker 1: That's right. Yeah, well what came together there? The numbers,
Speaker 1: the numbering, the whole thing, your whole file. Okay, the
Speaker 1: block file, that's right. So let's talk about the first
Speaker 1: numbers since we're there.
Speaker 2: Who has it? And is it zero zero one zero
Speaker 2: one zero zero zero one? Is it the first number?
Speaker 1: No? Well, we should first say that no one knows
Speaker 1: for sure who got the very first card in the
Speaker 1: very first number, because they reckon about several hundred thousand
Speaker 1: people applied in that first November of nineteen thirty six.
Speaker 2: So he didn't do the math, but they're some I'm
Speaker 2: sure you could figure out statistically, and I'd be interested
Speaker 2: to hear how to do this. But if one hundred
Speaker 2: thousand people all got their card that day, yeah, and
Speaker 2: the post offices were open from like eight to five,
Speaker 2: sure how many people were handed their Social Security number
Speaker 2: card simultaneously? That day, right, how many first people were there?
Speaker 2: There's got to be some awesome math equation to figure
Speaker 2: that out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, somebody should do that for us since then, so
Speaker 1: they don't know officially who it was, but their first
Speaker 1: official record they do know. It was a guy named
Speaker 1: John David Sweeney Junior. And he had the social Security
Speaker 1: number five to five nine one, and by oh, I
Speaker 1: mean zero of course or ought.
Speaker 2: And he got his because the head of the Social
Speaker 2: Security Administration took it off the top of a stack, yeah,
Speaker 2: and said this is the first one. That's right, So
Speaker 2: there you go.
Speaker 1: But they did offer that to oh no, they sorry.
Speaker 2: The zero zero one number, the lowest number right on record.
Speaker 1: Right before we get to there, though, John David Sweeney
Speaker 1: ironically died before he could collect his Social Security payments.
Speaker 2: John David Sweeney's the one with the first social Security number,
Speaker 2: So that is very ironic.
Speaker 1: It is.
Speaker 2: That's the fact of the podcast if you ask me.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, because retirement age was sixty five and
Speaker 1: he died at sixty one. Yeah, Today they handle it differently.
Speaker 1: It's a little confusing, but actually it's not that confusing.
Speaker 1: You just have to be good at math. Benefits are
Speaker 1: reduced by five nights of one percent for every month
Speaker 1: you retire before the age of sixty five. Slacker yeah
Speaker 1: or rich person.
Speaker 2: Yeah, good for you.
Speaker 1: So so back to the number one one or whatever.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the all time low number holder who always will
Speaker 2: be until we start recycling numbers if we ever need to.
Speaker 2: We won't. We may, we may. Her name is Grace
Speaker 2: d Owen. She is of Concord, New Hampshire, or Conquered Okay,
Speaker 2: and uh yeah, because we always get male from people.
Speaker 2: It's like, oh, you pronounced it Nevada, it's Nevada. Or
Speaker 2: if we say Nevada, they say, hey, you pronounced Nevada incorrectly,
Speaker 2: it's Nevada.
Speaker 1: No, it is Nevada. But I tell everyone that writes
Speaker 1: in from Nevada only people from Nevada say Nevada. Everyone
Speaker 1: else has.
Speaker 2: Nevada, especially people in Missouri. So chuck. Grace Diowen of Concord,
Speaker 2: New Hampshire got the lowest number zero zero one zero
Speaker 2: one zero zero zero one with her security numbers. It
Speaker 2: was and she got that not because she was first
Speaker 2: in line. As we've said, different guy got that low
Speaker 2: number or a different guy got the first number, and
Speaker 2: it wasn't low. She got it because of where she lived. Originally,
Speaker 2: the number scheming was based on, well, the first two
Speaker 2: numbers were based on the state you lived.
Speaker 1: In, right, and starting northeast, moving westward.
Speaker 2: Right, and so you had less than fifty possible primary numbers,
Speaker 2: the first two, first three numbers.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well not even They didn't even have fifty at
Speaker 1: the time, did they.
Speaker 2: No, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, so this is a
Speaker 2: total waste of digits. They figured out very quickly, so
Speaker 2: they started assigning them to zip codes instead. Right, And
Speaker 2: we should talk about these numbers. Do you want to hear
Speaker 2: Are we there?
Speaker 1: Well, we are almost there, but you didn't mention that
Speaker 1: Grace Owen got that number. That actually offered it as
Speaker 1: an honor to John G. Winnet, the Social Security Board chairman,
Speaker 1: and John Campbell, the Federal Bureau of Old Age Benefits
Speaker 1: rep for the Boston They offered them both the number
Speaker 1: one one one, and they both said, no, no thanks.
Speaker 2: We are true bureaucrats and that would be against the
Speaker 2: bureaucracy's rules.
Speaker 1: That's right. And seventeen cents to Ernest Ackerman, the first
Speaker 1: guy to get a payment.
Speaker 2: Yes, but item a Fuller made out like a bandit.
Speaker 1: This is exactly the problem.
Speaker 2: This is not the problem. Missus Fuller did good things
Speaker 2: with her money. She bought herself an edsel. Yeah, she
Speaker 2: uh invested in uh webvan. She did great things. She
Speaker 2: did so item A. Fuller retired in November nineteen thirty nine,
Speaker 2: and she was the first person to start collecting monthly benefits.
Speaker 2: So by the time she by the time Social Security payments,
Speaker 2: or by the time you had to start paying him,
Speaker 2: because another fact is that you can't opt out. And
Speaker 2: the time she retired, she contributed a total of twenty
Speaker 2: four dollars and seventy five cents. Yes, because of the
Speaker 2: Social Security scheme. By the time she died at age
Speaker 2: one hundred and nineteen seventy five, she collected a total
Speaker 2: of twenty two thousand, eight hundred and eighty eight dollars
Speaker 2: and ninety two cents.
Speaker 1: She not sustainable.
Speaker 2: She made out. She wore like a bandanna around her
Speaker 2: face like the rest of her life. She did.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she was a Social Security bandit.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Okay, back to the numbers. Is that enough history?
Speaker 2: I think so? Ok So, the first three numbers they're
Speaker 2: called what the area numbers, yes, And like you said,
Speaker 2: they were originally from northeast to west. So like if
Speaker 2: you were if you lived in New Hampshire, you your
Speaker 2: first three numbers were going to be zero zero one.
Speaker 2: Then they figured out that, well, that's stupid, Like we're
Speaker 2: going to have fifty states top, so there's a whole
Speaker 2: number that we're not using. Eventually we're gonna need it
Speaker 2: because Social Security numbers aren't recycled, they're retired after the
Speaker 2: person dies, right, that is true. So then they started
Speaker 2: assigning them to zip code, so that started using up
Speaker 2: a lot more numbers, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, zip code on the mailing address on the application form,
Speaker 1: which didn't necessarily indicate your residence. It's just wherever the
Speaker 1: mailing address was where you applied.
Speaker 2: Right, exactly when you were living, right, And it doesn't, Yeah,
Speaker 2: it doesn't. Mailing in residence is not the same address
Speaker 2: most times, it is, sure, but even still, like the
Speaker 2: place where I was born is not where I live now.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, so right, So I mean you have a
Speaker 2: lot of weird numbers for.
Speaker 1: The beginning, correct in the early seventies, since seventy two
Speaker 1: is when they started the zip code. So I believe
Speaker 1: that I actually in one of the last years since
Speaker 1: I was born in seventy one, last people to get
Speaker 1: the one based on the state. Cool, So I'm old timing.
Speaker 2: Seriously, that is something.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: The next two numbers are group numbers, so you have
Speaker 2: your area number, and then the area number is broken
Speaker 2: into groups zero one through ninety nine.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and this makes sense.
Speaker 2: So the two numbers in the middle are the you
Speaker 2: are that group of that zip code or that state,
Speaker 2: depending on how old you are.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was just a means to break it up
Speaker 1: and make it simpler for accounting and filing and all
Speaker 1: that stuff.
Speaker 2: Right, because instead of just one group sure from an
Speaker 2: area or what nine hundred and ninety nine possible areas, Yeah,
Speaker 2: you now have ninety nine groups of nine hundred and
Speaker 2: ninety nine possible areas, ninety nine groups each, which allows
Speaker 2: for a lot more because the eight ball that the
Speaker 2: Social Security number is always behind is basically running out
Speaker 2: of numbers.
Speaker 1: I don't think it'll happen. It will well eventually, but
Speaker 1: there's what they say, a billion combinations.
Speaker 2: There's a billion combinations. But consider this, there's been more
Speaker 2: than four hundred million numbers issued since nineteen thirty five. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so what sixty five seventy seven years, right, I have
Speaker 2: a feeling that does take into account the baby boom
Speaker 2: that ate up a lot of numbers, But I mean
Speaker 2: I have a feeling that we could we could reach
Speaker 2: that and what another one hundred, one hundred years, the
Speaker 2: US will be around I'm sure longer than then, hopefully.
Speaker 1: Hey you never know, Yeah, China is rising. Well it'll
Speaker 1: be at the very least not in our lifetime.
Speaker 2: Oh no, so who cares. I would have agreed with you.
Speaker 2: You qualified it like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, what they'll probably do is, and I'm guessing here,
Speaker 1: but they'll probably start reassigning numbers from dead people.
Speaker 2: Which will be weird. I use social Security number.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I imagine they'd go back. I mean, it would
Speaker 1: make sense to me that they would start from the
Speaker 1: beginning again almost. Yeah, so like you're using someone's number
Speaker 1: from nineteen thirty five in the year it's twenty one fourteen. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you got a stinky old mothball number.
Speaker 2: It's like a wicker wicker wheelchair or something like that,
Speaker 2: or like leather leg braks. Is something weird, like from
Speaker 2: the thirties?
Speaker 1: What are you talking about?
Speaker 2: You know exactly what I'm talking about Okay.
Speaker 1: The last four digits are the serial numbers, and they
Speaker 1: number consecutively from triple O one through nine nine nine nine.
Speaker 2: So that's just saying, well, we're going to extend the
Speaker 2: number the possible numbers we can come up with exactly
Speaker 2: even more as a billion. And you know what, you
Speaker 2: don't even necessarily have to recycle even if you add
Speaker 2: like an extra attempt digit. How much would that change everything?
Speaker 1: I mean, they'd have to rewrite all their programming and
Speaker 1: all their accountings.
Speaker 2: But then we wouldn't have to recycle numbers.
Speaker 1: Yeah, good point. Okay, Luckily they have people much smarter
Speaker 1: than that's deciding how to handle that.
Speaker 2: I don't know, we're pretty sharp, all.
Speaker 1: Right, Josh, common questions, these are actually pretty good.
Speaker 2: Okay, Chuck, here's a question for you. Does everyone have
Speaker 2: to have a Social Security number?
Speaker 1: If you're over eighteen, then yes, you do. And if
Speaker 1: you receive an income and you're over eighteen, okay, if
Speaker 1: you're interested in starting up a bank account, being a
Speaker 1: deduction on your parents' income taxes, all sorts of things
Speaker 1: like that, metal getting medical coverage, taking advantage of government services,
Speaker 1: then you're going to need that.
Speaker 2: So there's a lot of people who dispute that that
Speaker 2: you have to have that right. Practically speaking, you do,
Speaker 2: like any bank can be like I'm not doing business
Speaker 2: with you, and then you say, oh, okay, well I
Speaker 2: can't force you to buy law, but I'll try your competitor,
Speaker 2: and you go on down the line and maybe you
Speaker 2: find a bank. From what I understand, there's banks that
Speaker 2: are set up in the Midwest for people who don't
Speaker 2: have Social Security numbers, who have said I'm not going
Speaker 2: to have one. I don't trust the government, I don't
Speaker 2: want to have a serial number, and I'm not going
Speaker 2: to have this now.
Speaker 1: But they're still paying in.
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, yeah, I think they're still paying in, but
Speaker 2: they don't have a Social Security number, so.
Speaker 1: That means they're not going to get benefits at the end.
Speaker 2: I don't think they think they're going to get benefits anyway.
Speaker 2: I could get that, but yeah, they don't have a
Speaker 2: Social Security number. I think there are there are people
Speaker 2: who don't pay Social Security as well. It's like a
Speaker 2: whole Yeah, there's like a whole topic along the fringe
Speaker 2: of whether or not you need to have one, whether
Speaker 2: or not you actually do have to pay in the
Speaker 2: constitutionality of it, all that stuff, but for all practical purposes,
Speaker 2: your life is exponentially easier if you have a Social
Speaker 2: Security number.
Speaker 1: Right, And you also said you have to pay because
Speaker 1: you can't tell the government, you know what, I'm setting
Speaker 1: up for my own retirement, and I want to take
Speaker 1: all the available money that I make to do that
Speaker 1: because my retirement plan is much better than whatever U
Speaker 1: yokals are working on.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I mean, if you you have to pay
Speaker 2: you in fifteen point three percent. I don't know if
Speaker 2: that's current. I haven't looked, but as of the writing
Speaker 2: of this article, it was fifteen point three percent, seven
Speaker 2: points sixty five percent paid by you out of your
Speaker 2: gross pay and seven point sixty five paid by your employer.
Speaker 1: It is staggering how much we pay in taxes in
Speaker 1: this country.
Speaker 2: So if you took fifteen point three percent of your
Speaker 2: gross pay and put it into a four oh one
Speaker 2: k over the same course of years, you would have
Speaker 2: so much more money. Yeah, barring another stock market catastrophe
Speaker 2: before you could get your money out of your four
Speaker 2: oh one k, right, you would have way more than
Speaker 2: you have from the Social Security administration as benefits.
Speaker 1: You know, what I meant to look up is if
Speaker 1: the government uses this money for other things in the meantime,
Speaker 1: or is it strictly like here, it's in this little
Speaker 1: pool and all we're doing is paying people out with it.
Speaker 2: Well, supposedly, before the baby boom problem arose, it was
Speaker 2: going in and right back out. Okay, And I'm sure
Speaker 2: any surplus was invested in treasury bonds. Now all of
Speaker 2: the surpluses invested in treasury bonds, which is just such
Speaker 2: a shell game. It's so crazy, and no one has
Speaker 2: any idea if this is gonna work. I swear to God,
Speaker 2: I'm not paranoid.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I don't live in the Midwest. I'm not a fringe dweller.
Speaker 2: This is not something I like keep up with a lot.
Speaker 2: I don't read WorldNet daily. There's nothing like that in
Speaker 2: my life. Yeah, but I'm telling you this is like
Speaker 2: there there's no guarantee that this social Security I guess
Speaker 2: bandage for the baby boom population spike, if it's gonna work,
Speaker 2: it's it's really at the very least, it's interesting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, in the troubling, I would say, at the very least, sure, Okay,
Speaker 1: they but you they make it real easy for you
Speaker 1: to slap a number on your little, brand new baby.
Speaker 2: Yes, do you have to have a number for your child?
Speaker 1: Well, like I said, if you want them to get
Speaker 1: medical coverage and open up a savings account in their
Speaker 1: name for like their future college or trade school, or
Speaker 1: travels around the world, or.
Speaker 2: You want to claim it was a deduction on your tax.
Speaker 1: Filing, yeah, then they're going to need one, and they
Speaker 1: make it pretty easy on you to get one for
Speaker 1: your new, little smelly baby.
Speaker 2: They do. Again, I'm not a fringe dweller, but they
Speaker 2: have the very sinister sounding Enumeration at Birth program.
Speaker 1: That's pretty bad. Yeah.
Speaker 2: It was started in nineteen eighty nine and basically just
Speaker 2: made it very easy for you to get a Social
Speaker 2: Security number for your infant as part of their birth
Speaker 2: record forms. Right Enumeration at birth.
Speaker 1: You know, I used to I think I mentioned this before.
Speaker 1: I used to carry my card around on my wallet
Speaker 1: when I was a teenager because I thought it was
Speaker 1: I don't know, I thought it made me legitimate or adult,
Speaker 1: like it's interesting. Everyone else is everyone else is out
Speaker 1: drinking and I was like, no, no, I got myself
Speaker 1: a security card.
Speaker 2: It keeps the urges away.
Speaker 1: That's right.
Speaker 2: Hey, speaking of social Security cards and wallets, do you
Speaker 2: want to talk about that, lady? Oh?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can't kill this Witcher.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: This in uh nineteen thirty seven, dude named Douglas Patterson
Speaker 1: had a wallet company.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, h Ferry.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was the vice president and treasurer of this
Speaker 1: wallet company, and he said, you know what we should do.
Speaker 1: We should include a fake social Security card and every wallet.
Speaker 2: But we'll make it look really, really realistic by copying
Speaker 2: yours secretary.
Speaker 1: Yeah. He basically assigned these little fake cards that like,
Speaker 1: you know, you get a picture frame with a fake
Speaker 1: picture in it. Yeah, they gave out wallet or they
Speaker 1: sold wallets with a fake social Security card with a
Speaker 1: real number. I don't know why he thought that was
Speaker 1: a good idea or why.
Speaker 2: She went along with it. Yeah, what was her name,
Speaker 2: Hilda Strader Witcher? She went along with this? Did she
Speaker 2: go along with their boss?
Speaker 1: Maybe she didn't know, No, she knew she did.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I guess she didn't feel like she could
Speaker 2: assert herself at the time. But what over forty years,
Speaker 2: something like forty thousand people used her social Security number?
Speaker 1: Yeah, they gave her newing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and people were still using as recently as nineteen
Speaker 2: seventy seven, there were twelve people using that as their
Speaker 2: own because of this wallet.
Speaker 1: Yeah, in defense of the dude. He did have the
Speaker 1: word spitchimmen on the bottom of it Spaceman specimen, but
Speaker 1: it was, you know, in small print, and it looked
Speaker 1: like the real deal. It had the little emblem that
Speaker 1: who was the guy who designed that?
Speaker 2: Fred Happle?
Speaker 1: That's right? And what else did he design?
Speaker 2: The flying Tiger's logo?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Which what was that? Like a B two bomber logo?
Speaker 1: Well, who knows? World War two? I guess some sort
Speaker 1: of gunner plane or something. Okay, that'd be my guess.
Speaker 2: The fighting Hellcats, Yeah, flying hell Fish, the Hellfish.
Speaker 1: The Hellfish was the Simpsons. Yeah, okay, Josh, can you
Speaker 1: get a new number?
Speaker 2: Yes, but only in very extreme cases.
Speaker 1: Like stalking, like stalking or fraud, a bad case of fraud,
Speaker 1: I guess yeah.
Speaker 2: I would imagine that the FBI can probably get you
Speaker 2: on if you're part of the Witness Protection program. Oh sure,
Speaker 2: which we've talked about.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you don't have to pay for that, there's
Speaker 1: no fee from the SSA, but you what you should
Speaker 1: be wary of as companies that claim that they can
Speaker 1: get you a new number to absolve your credit, like, hey,
Speaker 1: have you led an awful bad life, become a new person.
Speaker 1: We'll get you a new Social Security number.
Speaker 2: Which is hilarious if you think that that that's crazy
Speaker 2: fallowing for that. It's like buying an elevator pass in
Speaker 2: high school as a reshmen or something like that, except way.
Speaker 1: Worse when you have a single floor high school.
Speaker 2: Because I'm sure they're like, not only do we charge
Speaker 2: you a fee, but give us your sub security number
Speaker 2: because we have to go in and like make sure
Speaker 2: that it's wiped out.
Speaker 1: Right, geez, where are we here? You know? The title
Speaker 1: of this section was why does it matter if someone
Speaker 1: knows my Social Security number? I think it's pretty obvious. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Identity theft, Yeah, it's a big problem these days. Back
Speaker 1: in the old days, it wasn't as much.
Speaker 2: It's actually gone down since this article.
Speaker 1: What four hundred thousand years what they said here, right.
Speaker 2: It's like two seventeen. Now, oh that's good. Well that's
Speaker 2: the ones that the FTC gets reports of, which are
Speaker 2: probably the lion's share of them. Right, But it was
Speaker 2: supposedly increasing, like by some crazy percentage.
Speaker 1: Yeah, forty percent per year.
Speaker 2: It's up eleven percent. Okay, so it's gone down some.
Speaker 2: I think people have just gotten scared of it, more
Speaker 2: wary about it. But I mean it's still obviously a
Speaker 2: pretty big problem.
Speaker 1: Sure.
Speaker 2: Part of the problem though, is that we shouldn't be
Speaker 2: using social Security numbers for identification for a reason. They're
Speaker 2: just way too publicly available.
Speaker 1: Even the last four digits. Don't use that as like
Speaker 1: your pin number.
Speaker 2: No, but I mean, even if somebody asks you your
Speaker 2: last four digits, how many people have your last four digits?
Speaker 2: How many companies do a lot? A lot, And they
Speaker 2: also have your birth date, They also have where you
Speaker 2: were born, your mother's maiden name. It's just kind of
Speaker 2: like it's all out there, I know. And basically there's
Speaker 2: no really good scheme to I guess uses as a
Speaker 2: pass code, as a past basically a way of saying
Speaker 2: I am me right, because if we all just relied
Speaker 2: on some other number or something like that, then people
Speaker 2: could find that out. There's really no good way to
Speaker 2: do it. But social Security numbers are definitely not the answer. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I always get a little creeped out when some business,
Speaker 1: you know, what are the last like Comcast or something
Speaker 1: like my cable company. Yeah, we'll see what are your
Speaker 1: last force of your social and I'll spit it out
Speaker 1: and they'll go, okay, Right.
Speaker 2: You can say I don't want to tell you, I
Speaker 2: want to answer everything else, and they'll they'll run you
Speaker 2: through your paces.
Speaker 1: But they know it because they're asking you for identificing,
Speaker 1: like right for verification.
Speaker 2: Exactly because you've given it to them already. You don't.
Speaker 2: There's basically most companies don't have any legal right to
Speaker 2: ask you what your Social Security number is, right, But
Speaker 2: they can also say, well, we don't trust you, so
Speaker 2: if you don't give it to us when you open
Speaker 2: your account or whatever exactly, then you're out of luck.
Speaker 2: With government agencies. You can ask for the Privacy Act
Speaker 2: of nineteen seventy four disclose your notice, which says like, hey,
Speaker 2: we have a legal right to ask you this or
Speaker 2: we don't, right, and then you can say you can't
Speaker 2: ask me that, bob.
Speaker 1: But yeah, all the protection advice that given here is
Speaker 1: pretty basic. You know, don't carry your card and your wallet,
Speaker 1: cancel credit cards you don't use, don't share.
Speaker 2: It way, don't necessarily repute that one. What don't we
Speaker 2: just cancel credit cards you don't use. There are things
Speaker 2: you should do, like keep an eye on your accounts,
Speaker 2: your credit card accounts, even though you don't use them.
Speaker 2: But that's not necessarily good advice, especially credit wise, because
Speaker 2: there's this thing called the available credit to debt ratio,
Speaker 2: one of the ratios that they figure your credit score with.
Speaker 2: And if you have a clean credit card you're not
Speaker 2: using that has like five or ten grand of available
Speaker 2: credit on it, sure that counts, and that makes you
Speaker 2: very attractive to people who are selling you houses or
Speaker 2: cars or whatever. That's true, So don't necessarily go do that.
Speaker 2: Keep them in a safe deposit box, keep an eye
Speaker 2: on all your accounts even if you're not using them.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Boy, my credit rating is so good right now.
Speaker 2: That's awesome, dude.
Speaker 1: It's like top five percentile somehow. Oh yeah, and that
Speaker 1: is I say that as a testament to you out
Speaker 1: there who may have bad credit. You can hear it
Speaker 1: over time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you and Emily did good.
Speaker 1: Huh uh. Well yeah, she's the one that helped me
Speaker 1: get my good credit back. That's good as CFO.
Speaker 2: Congratulations, man, that's a big deal.
Speaker 1: Thank you. It is good and my debts, you know,
Speaker 1: from the past were I don't want to get into it,
Speaker 1: but they had less to do with me and more
Speaker 1: to do with.
Speaker 2: Like bookies, heroin, No, like dog fighting.
Speaker 1: Bad roommates and getting screwed over by you know, like, hey,
Speaker 1: you were supposed to pay this Georgia power bill eight
Speaker 1: years ago and it's still in my name and I
Speaker 1: didn't even know about it. That kind of thing, gotcha,
Speaker 1: And just being lazy in college, like miss, yeah, I
Speaker 1: missed my credit card payment. No big deal, I'll just
Speaker 1: pay it next month.
Speaker 2: Right, I'm just gonna go buy some heroin instead. I
Speaker 2: know you're doing in college, Chuck, not that, So I
Speaker 2: guess that's about it. Huh.
Speaker 1: Yeah. One more piece of advice, which is actually good.
Speaker 1: Every few years, go to the SSA website and request
Speaker 1: a copy of your earnings and Benefit Estimate statement.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Have you heard of this before? No?
Speaker 1: And I've never done it, and I'm gonna go do
Speaker 1: it today.
Speaker 2: All right, let's go do it together. We'll both go
Speaker 2: do years together.
Speaker 1: And we'll be like what, I've been working since I
Speaker 1: was thirteen, So I imagine I'm doing pretty good.
Speaker 2: Nice. Oh, we didn't talk about that. The system is waited.
Speaker 2: The whole reason it was instituted was to help make
Speaker 2: sure that people don't fall through the cracks or whatever. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and to help the poor more than the wealthy. Although
Speaker 2: you get more money out the more money you put
Speaker 2: in right.
Speaker 1: Which is based on your income, so the right you make,
Speaker 1: the more you ban.
Speaker 2: But it's also disproportionately weighted so that the people who
Speaker 2: are earning the least get a disproportionate amount out to
Speaker 2: help them, correct, Amanda, which is great. It's socialism at
Speaker 2: its finest, as you said. So, uh yeah, that's about it.
Speaker 2: That's social security numbers and pretty much social security. I
Speaker 2: don't think any to do that again. Okay, hats off
Speaker 2: the FDR, Pharah, new deal, great society.
Speaker 1: Chicken in every pot that was Hoover a number on
Speaker 1: every forehead.
Speaker 2: Nice Chuck, thank you. We'll end it with that one.
Speaker 2: If you want to know more about social security numbers,
Speaker 2: you can read this exhaustive article about them by typing
Speaker 2: in social security in the search bar at HowStuffWorks dot com.
Speaker 2: Which means it's time for a listener mail.
Speaker 1: Josh, I'm gonna call this following up on zero. That
Speaker 1: one got a lot more attention than I thought. All
Speaker 1: the math nerds came out you were like zero, very
Speaker 1: happy that we did that. And one such nerd emailed this.
Speaker 1: This is Stephen, and he says, I think I might
Speaker 1: be able to put your mind to rest on a
Speaker 1: couple of those zero properties. And a lot of people
Speaker 1: try to explain this, and I think he did the
Speaker 1: best first, dividing by zero. I find it helpful to
Speaker 1: think of division as separating objects into containers. See this
Speaker 1: guy is like talking up my alley. Yeah, yeah, I
Speaker 1: can visualize stuff a lot better this way. So if
Speaker 1: you have five objects and five containers, you would put
Speaker 1: one object in each container. You still have the same
Speaker 1: number of objects, but divided evenly across containers. Now, if
Speaker 1: you have five objects and no containers, in other words,
Speaker 1: dividing by zero, you still have all the same objects,
Speaker 1: but they have not been put anywhere. You can't say
Speaker 1: that you'd put zero per container because it's not a
Speaker 1: lack of items, but rather a lack of containers. So
Speaker 1: dividing by zero means you have things but nothing to
Speaker 1: contain them, so a ratio cannot be formed.
Speaker 2: Awesome makes sense.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, As for the raising to the zero zero power.
Speaker 1: This is one because our basis of numerology is the
Speaker 1: number one. All things larger are functions of how many
Speaker 1: ones it holds, and all things larger define how many
Speaker 1: need to be combined to form a one. This, combined
Speaker 1: with the fact that exponents don't describe a multiplication, but
Speaker 1: rather a number of times a base measurement will be
Speaker 1: multiplied by a factor, means that if the base measurement
Speaker 1: is never a multiplied by the factor, you are left
Speaker 1: with the base alone. So there you have it. It's
Speaker 1: tempting to think of these numbers as one to the power,
Speaker 1: but unfortunately this is wrong.
Speaker 2: Over that again, No, I can't.
Speaker 1: That is from Stephen, a junior software engineer. Thanks Steven,
Speaker 1: so I will take him at his word.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he sounds like he's got it down.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the containers. That makes total sense to me now. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So there you have it.
Speaker 2: So thanks Steven, junior software engineer. We are looking forward
Speaker 2: to you becoming a senior software engineer, likely in the
Speaker 2: near future. From your email, and if you have some
Speaker 2: sort of illumination about a previous podcast, doesn't matter how
Speaker 2: old it is. We always like hearing new stuff about
Speaker 2: old stuff. Sure, You can send it in an email
Speaker 2: to stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot com. Stuff you Should
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