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Speaker 1: Welcome to America's Mr Garbutshaws. Tear down this wall. Either

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Speaker 1: you're with us or you were with the terrorists. If

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Speaker 1: you've got healthcare already, then you can keep your plan.

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Speaker 1: If you're satisfied with Trunk is not the President of

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Speaker 1: the United States, take a to band together. We will

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Speaker 1: make America great again. We'll never sharender. It's what you've

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Speaker 1: been waiting for all day. Buck Sexton with America now

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Speaker 1: joined the conversation called Buck toll free at eight four

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Speaker 1: four nine hundred Buck. That's eight four four nine hundred two,

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Speaker 1: eight to five, sharp mind, strong voice, Buck Sexton, Buck

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Speaker 1: Sexton here with all of you now, Team Buck, Welcome,

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Speaker 1: Welcome into the Freedom Hunt. Great to have you. A

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Speaker 1: lot of national security in the news and the headlines today.

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Speaker 1: We will certainly talk about what's going on with North

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Speaker 1: Area and Afghanistan, although we'll do probably a deeper deeper

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Speaker 1: dive into Afghanistan tomorrow. Plus the latest in politics with

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Speaker 1: this White House, the in fighting, allegations of surveillance. Might

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Speaker 1: talk a bit about Pruitt and the e p A

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Speaker 1: that he's dealing with. Microaggressions probably make their way into

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Speaker 1: the show later on as well, well, we'll get into

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Speaker 1: a scientific discussion of microaggressions. Oh gosh, micro aggressions and

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Speaker 1: all the rest of whatever we decide to hit on

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Speaker 1: here eight four four five eight four four nine hundred

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Speaker 1: buck on the phone lines North Korea. UM, the situation

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Speaker 1: on the Korean Peninsula right now is bad and it

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Speaker 1: is only likely to get worse. Now. We are, of

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Speaker 1: course here hearing a lot about the messaging that the

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Speaker 1: Trump administration has shown in the last week or so

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Speaker 1: with the air strikes on I keep saying air strikes,

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Speaker 1: missile strikes, pardon me, the missile strikes on the Syrian

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Speaker 1: air base in response to the chemical weapons US as

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Speaker 1: we've talked about that in detail here on the show.

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Speaker 1: And then there was the carrier group sent into the

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Speaker 1: vicinity of the Korean Peninsula, which in and of itself

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Speaker 1: is not particularly unusual, though it does send something of

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Speaker 1: a message. And today you had in Nanahar Province in

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Speaker 1: eastern Afghanistan, a moab dropped a mother of all bombs,

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Speaker 1: and it's one of these instances where everyone's talking about

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Speaker 1: how there's a lot of messaging and at play here now.

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Speaker 1: So the massive ordinary air blast bomb, the GBU forty

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Speaker 1: three dropped on a network of tunnels in eastern Afghanistan

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Speaker 1: right near the f Pack border. Yes, it may have

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Speaker 1: been very useful for collapsing tunnels and destroying the infrastructure

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Speaker 1: that they're trying to protect, for the Islamics that these

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Speaker 1: long States trying to protect with those tunnels, as well

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Speaker 1: as I'm sure taking out a number of ISIS Afghanistan

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Speaker 1: ISIS fighters. But people say this also is a signal,

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Speaker 1: a signal to dictators around the world that there is

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Speaker 1: no tool that the United States government with Donald Trump

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Speaker 1: as commander in chief, is when the circumstances call for it.

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Speaker 1: There is no tool the government is unwilling to use.

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Speaker 1: This is the reinstating of all options are on the table,

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Speaker 1: but we mean it. That's the difference you see between

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Speaker 1: this administration and the previous one. President Obama knew that

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Speaker 1: there were certain foreign policy norms that he would have

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Speaker 1: to uphold, otherwise he would lose credibility with enough of

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Speaker 1: the center of this country politically that there would be

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Speaker 1: problems for his administrations. So there were policies that were

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Speaker 1: in place or at least spoken of, like all options

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Speaker 1: are on the table when it comes to Iran perfect example.

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Speaker 1: They weren't there was the abam administration wasn't going to

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Speaker 1: do anything about Iran other than deal with them and

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Speaker 1: give them a lot and a deal they wouldn't have

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Speaker 1: gotten from a savvier and uh stronger foreign policy administration.

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Speaker 1: But they had to say it right, all options are

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Speaker 1: on the table, and with the bin Laden raid giving

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Speaker 1: the administration a lot of we always forget this, I

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Speaker 1: see this all the time when people discussed it. The

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Speaker 1: bin Lan raid gave the Obama administration a lot of

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Speaker 1: much needed foreign policy and national security credibility and political

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Speaker 1: capital here at home that it would not have otherwise had.

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Speaker 1: Despite the fact that as we know that, they was

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Speaker 1: a lot of waiting and dithering on that as well

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Speaker 1: on the executive side in terms of how long before

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Speaker 1: they decided to launch that rate. But the obaministration did it,

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Speaker 1: and they certainly took their fair share of victory lapsed forward.

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Speaker 1: In fact, President Obama when he first came out and

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Speaker 1: with the seals. I mean, it was Resident Obama's moment

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Speaker 1: of national security glory, at least in the eyes of Democrats.

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Speaker 1: So um, the administration Now, if you want to talk

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Speaker 1: about messages, the Trump administration trying to remind the rest

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Speaker 1: of the world especially, are our enemies and our allies right,

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Speaker 1: Every strong action we take is a reminder to our

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Speaker 1: allies that they are standing on the side of the

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Speaker 1: greatest military power the world. We're not just the wealthiest

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Speaker 1: country in the world, and we're not just the defender

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Speaker 1: and upholder of Western civilization and of the freedoms and

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Speaker 1: liberties and norms that comes with all of that. We

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Speaker 1: also have the most kick butt military in the history

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Speaker 1: of the well, the history of the planet. You can

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Speaker 1: say the history of the universe, because we're the only

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Speaker 1: life forms that we have yet found the universe. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: we do have the best military in the history of universe.

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Speaker 1: There you go, ah, But with North Korea, it's important

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Speaker 1: to understand the full scope of what we're dealing with. Messaging.

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Speaker 1: When we're talking about the Assad regime, even perhaps the

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Speaker 1: Mulas in Tehran, we can get a sense of how

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Speaker 1: it will be received. But with North Korea, you have

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Speaker 1: a country that is so bizarre and so outside of

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Speaker 1: what we would expect to exist in the twenty one

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Speaker 1: century anywhere that it can be hard to anticipate the

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Speaker 1: way that our actions would be received there. In fact,

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Speaker 1: I don't think anybody can really do it, because this

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Speaker 1: is a true totalitarian as across the board, and there's

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Speaker 1: one individual, Kim Jong un, who makes the decisions. There's

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Speaker 1: one individual at the very top who gets to decide

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Speaker 1: what the future of that country will be. I'm sure

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Speaker 1: there are some trusted generals, but even the trusted generals

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Speaker 1: know that there lifespan is quite uncertain depending on the

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Speaker 1: whims of this little uh, this little tyrant Kim Jong un,

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Speaker 1: who's a few years younger than me. Astonishing. This guy

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Speaker 1: runs a country of those He's really running, as it

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Speaker 1: was notably called by Christopher Hitchins, a concentration camp above

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Speaker 1: ground and a mass grave below it. North Korea. Despite

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Speaker 1: all of the moves that we have made in recent weeks,

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Speaker 1: with the Trump administration showing that it's willing to take action,

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Speaker 1: whether you agree with the specific actions or not, at

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Speaker 1: least you can say that um Trump enforced the redline

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Speaker 1: enforced at four Obama in Syria. On Obama's behalf, you

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Speaker 1: could say, but he will take action. But North Korea

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Speaker 1: is a problem that is likely as I said to

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Speaker 1: get worse. Of the nine nuclear states that exists on

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Speaker 1: Earth right now, North Korea is the most belligerent and

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Speaker 1: the one that I'd have to say is the most

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Speaker 1: likely in the future to do something that we would

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Speaker 1: we would consider rash and dare I say insane. But

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Speaker 1: from their perspective, from their worldview, from the Hermit kingdoms

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Speaker 1: I view of things, they may view this as necessary

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Speaker 1: for their revival. They might lash out in a way

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Speaker 1: that we would think of as unpredictable. Um. But we

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Speaker 1: have to stop thinking that this is a problem that

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Speaker 1: will go away on its own. In fact, what we've

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Speaker 1: seen after eight years of the Obama administration doing very

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Speaker 1: little on North Korea is that it will only get worse. UM.

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Speaker 1: And what we've seen in Syria, for example, the only

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Speaker 1: way you could point to Syrians say things have gotten

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Speaker 1: better is to say that that conflict has at some

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Speaker 1: level started to burn itself out. With already a half

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Speaker 1: a million dead, it's slowing down, But that may just

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Speaker 1: be because most of the major carnage has already occurred.

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Speaker 1: Most of the major cities have been destroyed in Harder,

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Speaker 1: in part and hole. So this is what we see

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Speaker 1: with North Korea, but in a different way, things just

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Speaker 1: getting worse. We want the North Koreans to give up

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Speaker 1: nuclear weapons, and we want them to give it. We

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Speaker 1: want them to stop this because the concern, as we've

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Speaker 1: discussed before on this show, is that at some point

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Speaker 1: in the future, this country, run by a little thirty

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Speaker 1: something year old pudgy tyrant, is going to be able

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Speaker 1: to put a nuclear weapon on top of an intercontinental

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Speaker 1: ballistic missile, which means that it would then be able

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Speaker 1: to hit this country as well as many of our allies,

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Speaker 1: and beyond that it would be able to engage in

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Speaker 1: nuclear blackmail. Because we have something worth protecting here. The

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Speaker 1: North Korean regime really does not, um and who knows

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Speaker 1: how they will act in response to any further calls

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Speaker 1: for them to give up nukes once they actually have

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Speaker 1: the ability to hit us here. So nukes are also

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Speaker 1: central to North Korea's identity as a state. Nukes are

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Speaker 1: the apex of military force, and since the entire Kim

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Speaker 1: dynasty is really just resting a top an enormous mountain

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Speaker 1: of cold, brutal, relentless force, is not going to give

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Speaker 1: up nuclear weapons under the certainly not under the current

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Speaker 1: trajectories of what we see happening in that country. Our

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Speaker 1: policy for the last twenty or so years has been

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Speaker 1: of well, it's really containment and and just hope for

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Speaker 1: the best the sanctions regimes that we have we've had

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Speaker 1: in place can be stronger. I'll talk to you a

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Speaker 1: bit more about that this hour. They haven't been that

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Speaker 1: good we we have. There are people that are expert

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Speaker 1: in sanctions that would even say that what we've done

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Speaker 1: against Iran and maybe heaven in some ways Russia has

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Speaker 1: been more targeted and more sensible as a means of

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Speaker 1: trying to change policy. But the policy objective with a

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Speaker 1: come when it comes to North Korea has been containment,

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Speaker 1: and if we look at that as also containing the

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Speaker 1: proliferation of weapons, we have been, if not a total failure,

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Speaker 1: we have failed in large part. North Korea is a

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Speaker 1: major weapons proliferator. In fact, you've seen weapons shipments from

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Speaker 1: North Korea that have been caught on their way to

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Speaker 1: various terrorist groups around the world. Because the North grains

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Speaker 1: will sell guns and grenade launchers and whatever to anybody,

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Speaker 1: you know, they don't care. They're in a constant struggle

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Speaker 1: to try to find foreign currency. For their to prop

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Speaker 1: up their own economy. As you know, they're cut off

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Speaker 1: largely from the global economy, not entirely, and that's a

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Speaker 1: major part of what we need to do if we're

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Speaker 1: going to try and change their behavior. China accounts for

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Speaker 1: of North Korea's economic activity, so we'll get into the

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Speaker 1: as well this hour, the role that China plays and

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Speaker 1: all this. But there the day of reckoning when the

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Speaker 1: North Koreans will have a nuclear tipped i C b M.

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Speaker 1: That day is getting closer, and then it will be

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Speaker 1: a threat to the U. S homeland. It's already an

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Speaker 1: existential threat with with conventional and chemical munitions to South

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Speaker 1: Korea and to some of our other Asian allies. This

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Speaker 1: is a problem that the Trump administration inherits in a

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Speaker 1: sense from an Obama administration that did very little, just

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Speaker 1: was willing to let this continue to fester. And time

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Speaker 1: is not on our side here because with each passing year,

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Speaker 1: North Korea gets closer to this goal of nukes, a

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Speaker 1: top and intercontinental ballistic missile, and at that point the

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Speaker 1: whole game starts to change for us. This is a

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Speaker 1: country in which you can be executed for possess sing

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Speaker 1: a Bible. This is a country where you could be

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Speaker 1: executed for any number of offenses that in a normal,

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Speaker 1: rational country, in a normal world, would would never be

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Speaker 1: considered an offense of any kind. School Children on their

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Speaker 1: way to on their way to school have to carry

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Speaker 1: around with them little little photos of the dear Leader

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Speaker 1: and they go into school and the deer leaders on

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Speaker 1: the wall, and it is like four made real. Um.

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Speaker 1: It's the truest totalitarian society that exists today. And you

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Speaker 1: could argue in many ways that's the most thorough totalitarian

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Speaker 1: ism that has ever existed, in that it is decades

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Speaker 1: now of worship of a dynasty. And all right, I'm

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Speaker 1: going off on North Korea here, and we're running low

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Speaker 1: on on time for this segment. So if you've got

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Speaker 1: thoughts on North Korea, missile strikes, dropping moabs in Afghanistan,

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Speaker 1: all of the above, do call in eight four four

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Speaker 1: to eight to five. I've been described having the problem.

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Speaker 1: I want to talk more about what Trump is doing

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Speaker 1: to confront it now, what this administration is doing, and

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Speaker 1: then we'll get into possible solutions. We'll move on from

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Speaker 1: North Korea to Afghanistan and the politics and microaggressions oh

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Speaker 1: my very busy show. My friends will be right back

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Speaker 1: North Korean. I don't know if this sends a message,

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Speaker 1: It doesn't make any difference. If it doesn't. North Korea's

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Speaker 1: a problem. The problem will be taken care of. I

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Speaker 1: will say this. I think China has really been working

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Speaker 1: very hard. I have really gotten to like and respect,

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Speaker 1: as you know, President She He's a very special man.

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Speaker 1: So we'll see how it goes. I think he's going

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Speaker 1: to try very hard. China is critical here. Trump is right,

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Speaker 1: no notice. How By the way, over the last week

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Speaker 1: or so, we've seen the foreign policy establishment begin to

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Speaker 1: embrace Donald Trump's actions. Sure, his rhetoric maybe off. Sometimes

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Speaker 1: they don't like the specifics of how he talks about

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Speaker 1: different issues. But Trump is taking the actions that the

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Speaker 1: foreign policy elites UM. And what I mean that I

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Speaker 1: don't I I don't mean that as a pejorative so

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Speaker 1: much as I mean those who work in foreign policy

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Speaker 1: UM and have long standing expertise that if the closest

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Speaker 1: thing to a consensus is what he's been doing recently,

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Speaker 1: sitting down with China, speaking about North Korea, striking at

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Speaker 1: ASSAD as a means of at least creating the creating

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Speaker 1: the possibility of different actions from the Assyrian government when

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Speaker 1: it comes to how they treat their civilians and what

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Speaker 1: they're going to be willing to do in that war zone. So,

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Speaker 1: and then the dropping of the MOAB on eastern in

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Speaker 1: eastern Afghanistan against the Islamic State. Uh, you know, this

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Speaker 1: is what we have them for this purpose. There it

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Speaker 1: was out in a rural area. They dropped this massive

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Speaker 1: twenty plus pound bomb that works, as I under stend it,

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Speaker 1: in a fashion similar to the original concept of a

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Speaker 1: of a daisy cutter bomb, which has been around for

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Speaker 1: a long time. Uh. And Trump is doing things that

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Speaker 1: I think the foreign policy establishment saying, okay, well this

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Speaker 1: is it's different from Obama. But that's a good thing

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Speaker 1: because Obama allowed problems to fester and get worse. Obama

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Speaker 1: decided that and I'm not making this up. On North Korea,

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Speaker 1: the policy was quote strategic patients. So with the previous administration,

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Speaker 1: we had in Libya quote leading from behind as the

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Speaker 1: description of what they were trying to accomplish, and then

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Speaker 1: in in North Korea, so we had leading from behind

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Speaker 1: in Libya and then a North Korea was quote strategic patients. Well,

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Speaker 1: when you have an enemy, which we do in Kim

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Speaker 1: Jong un and his top military advisors as generals, when

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Speaker 1: you have somebody who has absolutely no moral compass whatsoever,

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Speaker 1: is willing to allow for the starvation of his in fact,

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Speaker 1: to bring about the starvation, to create the starvation of

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Speaker 1: his own people, and to use that, I should note

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Speaker 1: as a tool to get more international aid. Right, he

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Speaker 1: forces starvation on his people, and then the North Korean

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Speaker 1: government turns around and says, we, well, we need more

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Speaker 1: stuff so we can feed our people. It's a country

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Speaker 1: that holds its own population hostage and sends them to

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Speaker 1: work camps where they die and people starve. It's a

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Speaker 1: a continuous day in and day out atrocity. And it

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Speaker 1: has the d m Z, of course, which is a

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Speaker 1: strange way to describe it, because it is a highly

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Speaker 1: militarized zone. It is not a demilitarized zone. It's the

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Speaker 1: most militarized zone really on the planet. And they have

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Speaker 1: artillery pointing at Seoul. We know they have a nuclear

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Speaker 1: weapons program. We know they have been pursuing other um

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Speaker 1: means of trying to use those nukes I c B

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Speaker 1: M S. And they will sell their technology to rogue

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Speaker 1: regimes all over the world. We've got to do something

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Speaker 1: about this. This is the clock is not on our side.

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Speaker 1: We can't take a knee here in the Obama administration

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Speaker 1: because there are other things. They had to push other

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Speaker 1: concerns right there, trying to get amnesty through, and then

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Speaker 1: of course defending Obamacare and climate change, Oh, a big

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Speaker 1: Paris climate change agreement. While all that's happening, North Korea

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Speaker 1: just gets closer and closer to being able to destroy

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Speaker 1: a US city. That's what we're really talking about here.

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Speaker 1: So enlisting China on our side to help us here

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Speaker 1: as much as possible is a critical step. We'll talk

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Speaker 1: about that and what it would look like going forward.

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Speaker 1: More coming up. The issues are global and so interlocked

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Speaker 1: that to consider the problems of one sect car obvious

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Speaker 1: to those of another is but the court disaster for

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Speaker 1: the whole. While Asia is commonly referred to as the

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Speaker 1: gateway to Europe, it is no less true that Europe

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Speaker 1: is the gateway to Asia, and the broad influence of

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Speaker 1: the one cannot fail to have its impact upon the other.

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Speaker 1: There are those who claim our strength is inadequate to

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Speaker 1: protect on both fronts, that we cannot divide our effort.

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Speaker 1: I can think of no greater expression of deceatism. That

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Speaker 1: was General Douglas MacArthur and his farewell addressed to Congress,

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Speaker 1: which was given one April next week many years ago

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Speaker 1: back in ninety one. MacArthur was relieved of his command,

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Speaker 1: as many of you, I'm sure no in part or

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Speaker 1: well because of his desire to engage the Chinese militarily

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Speaker 1: after they had crossed the Yalu River as part of

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Speaker 1: operations over the course of the Korean War. What we

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Speaker 1: see today with North Korea is, yes, a a continuation

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Speaker 1: of that conflict. In fact, the conflict has never really

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Speaker 1: technically ended. Um there's not a formal peace treaty in place,

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Speaker 1: so we have this divided Korean peninsula still. And by

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Speaker 1: the way, MacArthur was speaking about the global menace of

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Speaker 1: communism at the time. Interesting side note North Korea's ideology

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Speaker 1: depending on who you talk to about it, there's some

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Speaker 1: dispute about this because of course it's an incredibly closed society.

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Speaker 1: There are visitors, as you know, Dennis Rodman famously went

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Speaker 1: there a few years ago. There are Westerners who go

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Speaker 1: and you can report from there, but it's all with

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Speaker 1: minders in place. It's all uh staged for you, and

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Speaker 1: there are extreme limitations on what journalists can do while

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Speaker 1: they are there, and you don't want to run a

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Speaker 1: foul of the authorities because they don't care about freedom

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Speaker 1: or freedom of the press, or upsetting countries by locking

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Speaker 1: up foreign nationals for long periods of time. But there

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Speaker 1: is a book that is not talked about much now

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Speaker 1: in the context of North Korea, but it might be

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Speaker 1: worth revisiting. It's by Brian Reynolds. Myers was written back

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Speaker 1: in called The Cleanest Race. How North Koreans See Themselves

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Speaker 1: and Why it matters. The argument of the book is

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Speaker 1: that North Korea is really first and foremost founded on

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Speaker 1: a form of ultra nationalism, xenophobia, and racial hierarchy that

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Speaker 1: is similar to what was the case in Imperial Japan.

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Speaker 1: A historical note that I've always thought got far too

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Speaker 1: little attention from people, especially those who spend time reading

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Speaker 1: about the Second World War or watching the seemingly endless

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Speaker 1: series of very engrossing documentaries military history series on the

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Speaker 1: Second World War was that the racism and the evils

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Speaker 1: perpetrated in the name of racism by the Imperial Japanese

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Speaker 1: against other Asian races and countries was appalling on a

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Speaker 1: scale that is hard to it's hard to stomach, it's

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Speaker 1: hard to fathom and really read about think about um.

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Speaker 1: And the argument made in this book is that North

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Speaker 1: Korea is similarly based on racial superiority, i e. North

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Speaker 1: Koreans are the greatest noblest race in the world. Um,

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Speaker 1: that South Koreans are are essentially fake, They're not as

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Speaker 1: authentic as North Koreans are, and that the rest of

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Speaker 1: the world needs to bow down for North Korea. And

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Speaker 1: of course I don't have to tell you that it

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Speaker 1: is also stalinist in its military pretensions and military outlook.

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Speaker 1: We see North Korea's nuclear weapons as a problem to

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Speaker 1: be dealt with. The Kim regime because it really is

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Speaker 1: a it's a one it's a one man show in

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Speaker 1: the sense that he makes all the decisions as his

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Speaker 1: father Kim Jong ill and his father before him, Kim

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Speaker 1: Il sung Uh, they also ruled in that way. And

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Speaker 1: what it were two days away from the day of

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Speaker 1: the Sun I think, which is Kim Il Sung's birthday

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Speaker 1: as it is celebrated in Yeah, it's right, Um, I

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Speaker 1: can't hear you but that the sign language you're giving

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Speaker 1: me right now is not one day from his birthday birthday, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: but I mean it's it's his birthday, yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: what what the actual birthday is. It's not as relevant

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Speaker 1: to me as the day because that might be a

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Speaker 1: day that we see a major a major test um.

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Speaker 1: So this is the reality of the regime we are facing.

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Speaker 1: They do not want to give up nukes because they

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Speaker 1: also can look around the world as anyone could and

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Speaker 1: say that regimes that give up nukes that are on

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Speaker 1: the outs with the rest of the international community, they

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Speaker 1: don't tend to last very long. Regimes with nukes last

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Speaker 1: a long time, even in a in a very different context.

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Speaker 1: You look at what happened with Ukraine and the agreement

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Speaker 1: that the US was a part of the US, the

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Speaker 1: United Kingdom and yes Russia that if Ukraine gave up

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Speaker 1: the nukes that it inherited after the fall of the

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Speaker 1: Soviet Union, UH, that we would protect it. Well, that

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Speaker 1: didn't last. That didn't really last very long, did it.

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Speaker 1: So nukes are and this is what the the Iranian

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Speaker 1: regime to realizes this, which is why the notion that

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Speaker 1: they're going to give up their nuclear program because of

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Speaker 1: Obama's deal with them. Is is just is preposterous, but

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Speaker 1: it's something that the previous administration of many Democrats who

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Speaker 1: paid lip service to it. They they are clinging to

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Speaker 1: this fiction. But okay, So North Korea is not just

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Speaker 1: extreme militarism and absolutist totalitarianism, but it is also racism

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Speaker 1: and perhaps in a central a way that is central

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Speaker 1: to the ideology of the regime. It is racist and

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Speaker 1: seeks to exterminate those who are less than uh And

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Speaker 1: the nukes that it has are not a problem. It's

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Speaker 1: not just a bargaining chip from the North Korean perspective,

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Speaker 1: but it is the great equalizer in the end with

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Speaker 1: South Korea and with all of North Korea's enemies. So

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Speaker 1: once they get their nukes to a place where they

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Speaker 1: are um competent enough in their deployment to use them

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Speaker 1: as a first strike weapons, say against the South Koreans,

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Speaker 1: well then they can deal with that whole South Korea

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Speaker 1: problem in their eyes pretty quickly. So this is terrifying stuff.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we we are facing a regime that with

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Speaker 1: whom the possibility of nuclear war is not imminent, but

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Speaker 1: it is very real down the line, and all of

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Speaker 1: the indicators that we have right now are that the

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Speaker 1: policies that we've been trying so far won't work. Okay,

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Speaker 1: what will work? I've been telling you how scary this is,

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Speaker 1: how bad this is, and and that's real. But what

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Speaker 1: can we do about it other than just messaging, which

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Speaker 1: is an important first step. And everything Trump is doing

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Speaker 1: right now, it should be noted to me, uh in

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Speaker 1: my and in my view, is an important first step.

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Speaker 1: Right the the strike in Syria, that alone is not

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Speaker 1: a whole lot. It's the beginning of a longer shift

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Speaker 1: in policy that could be useful, could be beneficial to UH, well,

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Speaker 1: certainly to Syrian people that we don't want to see

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Speaker 1: harmed with chemical weapons or otherwise, and and also in

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Speaker 1: terms of the policy of ending civil war there. But

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Speaker 1: what the dropping of a moab in eastern Afghanistan? I know,

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Speaker 1: ever and saying, oh, look at the symbolism of this. Okay, well,

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Speaker 1: we've dropped a lot of bombs in Afghanistan for a

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Speaker 1: very long time. This just happens to be the biggest one.

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Speaker 1: So yes, it gets media coverage. People will talk about it,

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Speaker 1: and there'll be a lot of diagrams that'll probably even

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Speaker 1: be a vox splainer of you know, what is what

432
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 1: is the moab and like, look at how big the

433
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:07,680
Speaker 1: boom is from the moab, and there'll be little cartoons

434
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 1: that you'll see in different news sites about look, this

435
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,000
Speaker 1: is how a mohab works. Okay, fine, we'll learn a

436
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 1: lot about this bomb. It's just a bomb. It's a

437
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 1: big dumb bomb. Useful, but not a strategy. It's it's

438
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:24,040
Speaker 1: a tool. It is not the full tool, kid, and

439
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,680
Speaker 1: it's certainly not the end purpose of what we're trying

440
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:30,040
Speaker 1: to accomplish an Afghanistan. So with North Korea, we're sending

441
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:35,000
Speaker 1: a a well, a carrier and some ships as part

442
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 1: of an armada along with it. But that's just to

443
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:40,600
Speaker 1: remind the well the around the North Koreans that we

444
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,480
Speaker 1: mean business and that one carrier group that we have

445
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 1: could devastate them. But the North Korean response to that,

446
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 1: of course would be, I mean the rhetorical response that

447
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 1: they could destroy what what we could send every carrier

448
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 1: group we have to just sit off the coast of

449
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 1: North Korea. They could rereak havoc on uh, South Korea

450
00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 1: and Soul within minutes. And there's really nothing. If they

451
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 1: went first, There's very little we could do to stop

452
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:08,120
Speaker 1: there from being mass casualties in South Korea. So I

453
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 1: said before North Korea holds its own people hostage, it

454
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 1: also holds South Korea hostage, which limits a lot of

455
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:17,240
Speaker 1: our options and the activities that we could pursue to

456
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 1: try and try and deal with them. And ultimately regime

457
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:24,680
Speaker 1: change has to be the policy. That's what we are

458
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:28,720
Speaker 1: trying to accomplish here. But regime change is far off

459
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:31,960
Speaker 1: in the distance right now. Uh, we would just hope

460
00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:36,200
Speaker 1: for containment and slowing of the nuclear program first, and

461
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 1: then we could start thinking about regime change in a

462
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 1: meaningful sense. Um how that would even come about. I

463
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 1: have heard nobody who is bullish on regime change in

464
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 1: the near term in North Korea. So we're gonna be

465
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 1: dealing with this problem for a while. China plays a

466
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:57,920
Speaker 1: can play a very useful role here, but the Chinese

467
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 1: have their own reasons for acting as they do with

468
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 1: regard to North Korea. Trump has enlisted their helped or

469
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 1: begun to enlist their help in dealing with North Korea,

470
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:10,959
Speaker 1: but they don't want to see South Korea become all

471
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:12,800
Speaker 1: of Korea, meaning that they don't want to see a

472
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:18,040
Speaker 1: pluralist or a a a free market liberal democracy on

473
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 1: the Korean on all of the Korean Peninsula's buddy buddy

474
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 1: with the United States. Also, because of the recent political

475
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:27,720
Speaker 1: tumult in South Korea, we have a liberal, a liberal

476
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 1: government coming in into power there that may not be

477
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 1: as friendly towards the United States and our goals and

478
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 1: intentions as the previous president and government had been. So

479
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 1: there are some problems there. But China wants to see

480
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 1: a slowly less belligerent and less dangerous North Korea form.

481
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 1: They don't want to see a a free market democracy

482
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:53,400
Speaker 1: in North Korea. So we don't have the same end

483
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 1: state in mind. You've got to keep that, keep that

484
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 1: in your sights as we look at all this, and

485
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 1: then also look at our use. It is from them

486
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 1: from the get go. You already had Trump say he

487
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 1: might give them a better trade deal because of how

488
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 1: they deal with North Korea. Okay, Well, that's leverage for them,

489
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:11,440
Speaker 1: that's leverage in this whole process. They can say, well, sure,

490
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:13,479
Speaker 1: you want us to stop our cyber theft of your

491
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 1: most critical commercial uh commercial intellectual property as well as

492
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 1: military and industrial secrets, everything else that we can get

493
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:24,560
Speaker 1: from you. Yeah, sure, America. The Chinese government will slow

494
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:26,440
Speaker 1: down on that, but you know, first we'll deal with

495
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 1: North Korea. And if you want us to do that,

496
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:29,600
Speaker 1: you're gonna have to back off on this other stuff.

497
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 1: It's useful, it gives them leverage and they know it.

498
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 1: So that's we're gonna have to see how that plays out.

499
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 1: But all of this is a work in progress. As

500
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:42,920
Speaker 1: I said to you, we've had a couple of decades

501
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:45,960
Speaker 1: of failed policies. We've had nuclear freezes that weren't even

502
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 1: freeze is in fact, one nuclear freeze we had meaning

503
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:50,720
Speaker 1: of the North Korean program. One freeze we had lasted

504
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:52,320
Speaker 1: like a few weeks before it was clear that there

505
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:56,680
Speaker 1: was no freeze. They the North Koreans act badly and

506
00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:01,960
Speaker 1: get stuff in response. They know that they can lash out,

507
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 1: get the world's attention, and then the international community will

508
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:08,800
Speaker 1: be stuck in this position of how much do we

509
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:11,959
Speaker 1: want to punish North Korea as a whole versus the regime,

510
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:15,240
Speaker 1: because allowing more people to starve is clearly not effective policy,

511
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:19,120
Speaker 1: nor is it moral, and all the while it's an

512
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:22,320
Speaker 1: existential threat to South Korea. It will be a threat

513
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 1: to the U. S. Homeland. It's just a question of

514
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:27,400
Speaker 1: how many years out that will be. And we don't

515
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 1: have any good military options for dealing with it in

516
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 1: the meantime. I mean, we have to remind them that

517
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 1: any true aggression would be met with the annihilation of

518
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:39,640
Speaker 1: North Korea. But the trade off that we don't want

519
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:41,360
Speaker 1: to make is the annihilation of North Korea if it

520
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:44,960
Speaker 1: means the annihilation of South Korea too, um, And we

521
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 1: don't want the annihilation of anything other than the regime,

522
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:51,200
Speaker 1: the government. We just want them to go away, this

523
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 1: totalitarian nightmare that just continues to roll along. Interesting I mentioned,

524
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:00,120
Speaker 1: I think before Hitchens quote on this, he was one

525
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 1: of the few journalists who had visited all the members

526
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:06,200
Speaker 1: of the Access of Evil post nine eleven, so he

527
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 1: had been to North Korea, Iraq and Iran, and he's

528
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 1: made a very interesting point I thought, and some of

529
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:17,520
Speaker 1: his writing on this and some of his speeches on

530
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:20,960
Speaker 1: it as well, that you have remembered also the grinding

531
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:24,600
Speaker 1: psychological destruction that occurs from being in a society where

532
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 1: there can be no freedom of thought, where there is

533
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:32,920
Speaker 1: in fact a a b an enforced boredom and repetition,

534
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 1: and everything is told to you, and that's the way

535
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 1: it has to be. There can be no deviation from it.

536
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:44,440
Speaker 1: The psychological scarring on the population is really hard for

537
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:49,360
Speaker 1: anyone outside North Korea to understand or comprehend. If you

538
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:51,080
Speaker 1: have any thoughts on this, I will I know you've

539
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 1: I've seen a lot of calls coming into the last hour.

540
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:55,160
Speaker 1: We'll take a couple of them after this break, but

541
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 1: we've got some spots for more. Eight four four, eight

542
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:04,240
Speaker 1: to five. What do you think of military moves, actions, maneuvers,

543
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:07,640
Speaker 1: decisions over the last week or so, big changes in

544
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:10,360
Speaker 1: the foreign policy front of my friends, they could be ahead.

545
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 1: We'll see more coming. This is a pretty astonishing headline

546
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:24,320
Speaker 1: just just came up now from NBC Nightly News that

547
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:29,880
Speaker 1: are verified Twitter account breaking sources. US prepares for possible

548
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:35,840
Speaker 1: preemptive strike if North Korea chooses to test a nuclear weapon.

549
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:41,920
Speaker 1: Preemptive strike a North Korea has been saying a big

550
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:44,160
Speaker 1: event is near. As we were discussing before the Day

551
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:47,400
Speaker 1: of the Sun, the birth of Kim ill sung, the

552
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:53,320
Speaker 1: original North Korean dictator, who, of course they say was

553
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:57,560
Speaker 1: born on on On like a special mountain, a mystical

554
00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:00,440
Speaker 1: mountain and turn that he was born in in like

555
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:05,759
Speaker 1: a village in China. Side note, but Chris in North

556
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:08,719
Speaker 1: Carolina on w p T. I welcome to the Freedom Hut, sir,

557
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 1: Thank you both, Thanks so much for taking my call.

558
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:15,479
Speaker 1: And I just heard your program for the first time today,

559
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:19,320
Speaker 1: and I appreciate the the you know, the concise, systematic

560
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:20,800
Speaker 1: way in which you're bringing out things. And I'll be

561
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:24,879
Speaker 1: brief and hopefully straight to the point. Um, it's sad

562
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:29,120
Speaker 1: that you know, most of our enemies, UM in the

563
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 1: East and the Middle East, they probably and of course

564
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 1: Europe back in during the Second World War and the

565
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:39,479
Speaker 1: First World War, they pretty much probably know our history

566
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:42,320
Speaker 1: better than we do. And that is as they have

567
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:45,799
Speaker 1: saved the climb of our economical, our military, and our

568
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:50,239
Speaker 1: our commercialization, our prosperity in every way they have. As

569
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:54,479
Speaker 1: Hitner said, the West is too comfortable to get involved. Well,

570
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:56,480
Speaker 1: you know, sad to say, there's some truth to that.

571
00:35:56,760 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 1: And that's what the last administration literally, i believe, was

572
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 1: helping to prepare the people of this nation for. And

573
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:07,800
Speaker 1: that is just a life of laziness, ease, and just

574
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 1: let's just all get ready for a good life of

575
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:12,919
Speaker 1: socialistic activity and get along with the rest of the world.

576
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:16,399
Speaker 1: Sad to say, that's about reality. So what Trump has done,

577
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:19,960
Speaker 1: and i'mbelieving is going to do, is going to show

578
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:24,279
Speaker 1: improve these nations wrong like the aid off shittlers, like

579
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 1: the Mussolini's and even the Stalins and Chris Cheff. Uh,

580
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:32,960
Speaker 1: these individuals that pushed the buttons of our leaders and

581
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:35,440
Speaker 1: did not think that we would buck and is. I

582
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:38,279
Speaker 1: think you don't have to go that far back, Chris

583
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:40,120
Speaker 1: and and we don't have to look at at the

584
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:44,480
Speaker 1: monsters of the past like Stalin and Hitler. Osama bin

585
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:47,880
Speaker 1: Laden thought that America was a paper tiger, that we

586
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:49,880
Speaker 1: would that if we were punching in the mouth, we

587
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:53,239
Speaker 1: would run. That was that was Osama bin Laden's initial uh.

588
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:55,719
Speaker 1: And I think when people talk about the messaging that

589
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 1: Trump is trying to send with some of these recent actions,

590
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:00,879
Speaker 1: it's that that's not that not the case now, He's

591
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:04,320
Speaker 1: not trying to start a major war with anybody or

592
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 1: do anything that is uh is deeply unwise and unwarranted.

593
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 1: But I do think he's re establishing that America will

594
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:16,439
Speaker 1: America will hit back and will not take things in stride. Chris,

595
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 1: thank you for calling her from North Carolina. Richard in

596
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:20,759
Speaker 1: West Virginia, w w v A. We got about a minute.

597
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 1: What's up, Richard? Oh, I heard you take two things

598
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:28,920
Speaker 1: of the interest in me for a long time, and

599
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:31,359
Speaker 1: I just wonder if you really have a faxture it's

600
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:33,239
Speaker 1: just your opinion, because I've heard a lot of the

601
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 1: hosts say you said two things. You said that this

602
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 1: is what the United States is the wealthiest country in

603
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:43,280
Speaker 1: the world and it's also the most powerful. I just wonder,

604
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 1: is that just your opinion or do you really have

605
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:49,359
Speaker 1: any facts drilling? Maybe are there a fact dack up

606
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:52,960
Speaker 1: something like that? Well, yeah, we can measure. We can

607
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:55,279
Speaker 1: measure GDP, and we could also take a look at

608
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:57,600
Speaker 1: the United States military and do an order of battle

609
00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:00,080
Speaker 1: against any other military anywhere in the world. And I

610
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:03,279
Speaker 1: think the facts pretty much speak for themselves there. So yeah,

611
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 1: the answer your question is, yeah, actually we are. We

612
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:09,279
Speaker 1: are the richest and the most powerful. And if that

613
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:11,279
Speaker 1: weren't true, by the way, I think other countries would

614
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:13,360
Speaker 1: would at least try to call us on it. And no,

615
00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 1: they know they they're all quite aware. In fact, one

616
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 1: of the problems we have is that in some areas

617
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:20,359
Speaker 1: of the Third world where I've spent time, people think

618
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:23,360
Speaker 1: that America, well, they can do anything. And the answer

619
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 1: to that is no, we can't. Welcome back to the

620
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:29,680
Speaker 1: Freedom Hut on an island of liberty where you're the

621
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:33,879
Speaker 1: party and it's full of fellow patriots. Buck Sexton kicks

622
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:41,520
Speaker 1: it off. So see I director Mike Pompeio spoke today.

623
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:43,160
Speaker 1: I wasn't really sure. I didn't know what he was

624
00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:46,279
Speaker 1: going to speak on. And as you have heard from

625
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:48,400
Speaker 1: well from me saying it as well as some of

626
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:50,400
Speaker 1: our interests in the show. I was a c I

627
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:52,560
Speaker 1: analyst for a number of years, so I spend some

628
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:57,000
Speaker 1: time and Langley, uh, and I still have some very

629
00:38:57,080 --> 00:39:03,120
Speaker 1: good friends were you know, in the intelligence world. Um.

630
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 1: But Pompeio was speaking about Wiki leaks today. That was

631
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 1: really the main, the main target of his ire. He

632
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:15,759
Speaker 1: started off by speaking about Well, I can give you

633
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 1: a little bit of his remarks here. He said, let

634
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:22,160
Speaker 1: me start today by telling you a story. He was

635
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:26,920
Speaker 1: a bright, well educated young man. He was described as industrious, intelligent,

636
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:32,040
Speaker 1: and likable, if inclined toward impulsiveness and impatience. At some

637
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 1: point he became Disillusioned with intelligence work and angry at

638
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 1: his government, he left government and decided to devote himself

639
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:43,239
Speaker 1: to what he regarded as public advocacy, exposing the intelligence

640
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:47,920
Speaker 1: officers and operations he had sworn to keep secret. He

641
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:51,640
Speaker 1: appealed to agency employees to send him tips, leads, suggestions.

642
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 1: He wrote in a widely circulated bulletin, we are particularly

643
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:58,640
Speaker 1: anxious to receive anonymously if you desire copies of U.

644
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:03,400
Speaker 1: S diplomatic lists and US embassy staff. That man was

645
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:06,080
Speaker 1: Philip A. G one of the founding members of the

646
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:10,319
Speaker 1: magazine Counterspy, which in its first issue in nineteen seventy three,

647
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 1: called for the exposure of c I A undercover operatives overseas.

648
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:18,560
Speaker 1: In its September nineteen seventy four issue, Counterspy publicly identified

649
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:22,480
Speaker 1: a member of the CIA or the c I station

650
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 1: chief in Athens. Chief of Station in Athens. Later that

651
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:34,480
Speaker 1: man was assassinated returning home from a Christmas party. UM.

652
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:38,279
Speaker 1: This is all up on ci CIA dot gov, where

653
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:41,959
Speaker 1: they have the official statements from Pompeos So Pompeio saying

654
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:44,799
Speaker 1: that there was a turn coat back in the day

655
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:48,719
Speaker 1: who said he was doing this for UM. He said

656
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:54,440
Speaker 1: he was doing this for reasons of transparency and because

657
00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:58,880
Speaker 1: he was a a patriot and he was trying to

658
00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:02,719
Speaker 1: help the American and of course that was all nonsense.

659
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:05,440
Speaker 1: And then Pompeo goes on to say that that's what

660
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 1: we should think of when we talk about Snowdon and

661
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:12,239
Speaker 1: his revelations and wiki leaks, and he went even further

662
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:18,240
Speaker 1: with WikiLeaks and called it a non state hostile intelligence service.

663
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:22,920
Speaker 1: Find the celebration of entities like WikiLeaks to be both

664
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:27,439
Speaker 1: perplexing and deeply troubling, because while we do our best

665
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:29,960
Speaker 1: to quietly collect information on those who pose a very

666
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:33,400
Speaker 1: real threat to our country, individuals such as Julian Assange

667
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 1: and Edward Snowden seek to use that information to make

668
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:39,680
Speaker 1: a name for themselves. As long as they make a splash,

669
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:42,120
Speaker 1: they care nothing about the lives they put at risk

670
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:45,200
Speaker 1: or the damage they cause to national security. It's time

671
00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:47,040
Speaker 1: to call out wiki leaks for what it really is,

672
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:51,440
Speaker 1: a nonstate hostile intelligence service often embedded by state actors

673
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:55,040
Speaker 1: like Russia. Wiki leaks walks like a hostile intelligence service

674
00:41:55,320 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 1: and talks like a hostile intelligence service. He's saying that

675
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:04,520
Speaker 1: wiki leaks needs to be well. He is calling it out,

676
00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:07,320
Speaker 1: and he's saying that Wiki leaks as well as Snowdon

677
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:12,320
Speaker 1: and anybody who has worked with UM is deeply damaging

678
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:16,919
Speaker 1: to U S interests and should be thought of as

679
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:20,839
Speaker 1: working for the enemy. I've had some very instant conversations

680
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:23,640
Speaker 1: with friends of mine, including people in the people in

681
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:27,120
Speaker 1: the media, as well as outside of media. Some libertarians

682
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:31,360
Speaker 1: that I know are very favorably disposed towards Snowdon, and

683
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:34,160
Speaker 1: I've asked them for many times as well, what about

684
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:40,759
Speaker 1: what about Snowdon's disclosures about any alleged or possible overseas

685
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:45,120
Speaker 1: activity that the U S Intelligence community might be engaged in.

686
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:49,520
Speaker 1: What why do you think that's relevant or why would

687
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:52,239
Speaker 1: that be? Why? How does that fall under the the

688
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:56,080
Speaker 1: broad rubric of transparency and the answers I was getting, Oh,

689
00:42:56,520 --> 00:43:01,680
Speaker 1: you know, but he really started an important discussion about surveillance. Well,

690
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:05,360
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't know about that. I mean, he

691
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:09,040
Speaker 1: started an important discussion. But when we look at what

692
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:12,400
Speaker 1: the outcome of those disclosures were, you can believe that

693
00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:16,160
Speaker 1: Mike Pompeo and H and many others like him are

694
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:21,000
Speaker 1: are lying UM. You can believe that the senior most

695
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:24,719
Speaker 1: intelligence officers that have spoken about this issue. You know,

696
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:27,960
Speaker 1: former directors of CIA, N s A, and other places

697
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:30,920
Speaker 1: are all part of some conspiracy to lie to all

698
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:33,040
Speaker 1: of us about snow and disclosures. Or you can accept

699
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:35,600
Speaker 1: that Snowden did a lot of a lot of damage

700
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:39,120
Speaker 1: with what he took it upon himself to do. Um

701
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:43,080
Speaker 1: And I don't know anybody who has who has worked

702
00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:44,880
Speaker 1: for the intelligence community who hasn't at one point or

703
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:48,960
Speaker 1: other thought, oh man, this place. You know, it's dysfunctional,

704
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:53,520
Speaker 1: it's so bureaucratic. There's so many um, so many problems here,

705
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:55,719
Speaker 1: and you know what am I doing and everything? You know,

706
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:58,000
Speaker 1: there's a lot of that that goes on. But I

707
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:00,240
Speaker 1: also don't know anybody that ever thought, I've got an idea,

708
00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:03,600
Speaker 1: I'm going to abscond with lots and lots of classified

709
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:06,839
Speaker 1: documents because that will make America a better place. If

710
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:12,239
Speaker 1: I run to the Russians and expose this information to

711
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:15,680
Speaker 1: public view, that it could do a tremendous amount of

712
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:20,080
Speaker 1: national security damage. It's it's been surprising to me to

713
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:22,680
Speaker 1: see some of the credibility that some of my fellow

714
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:24,920
Speaker 1: conservatives are willing to not just on the on the

715
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:27,120
Speaker 1: Snowden issue to say that what he did was somehow

716
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:30,960
Speaker 1: altruistic or the motives were pure or whatever. Um. But

717
00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:36,560
Speaker 1: even beyond that of it's surprising to me that people

718
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:40,400
Speaker 1: are willing to listen to wiki leaks without saying or

719
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:42,359
Speaker 1: without being clear on the fact that yeah, maybe they

720
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:46,840
Speaker 1: just because the information maybe or may not be true,

721
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:51,960
Speaker 1: it doesn't mean there should be disclosed. Think about how

722
00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:54,320
Speaker 1: you'd feel if you know a friend of yours or

723
00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:57,320
Speaker 1: somebody that you knew had their you know, private medical

724
00:44:57,400 --> 00:44:59,840
Speaker 1: records disclosed. Well, just because it's true doesn't mean that

725
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:02,759
Speaker 1: should be out there for everybody right that that's that's

726
00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:06,880
Speaker 1: not a justification in and of itself. UM. I think

727
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:09,080
Speaker 1: it's interesting that Pompeo came out to say this today,

728
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:13,400
Speaker 1: And UM, my understanding from folks in the in the

729
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:16,520
Speaker 1: i C Is that Pompeio is well regarded and so

730
00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:18,960
Speaker 1: far doing a very good job. But he just felt

731
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:22,840
Speaker 1: the need to speak out about this um wiki leaks stuff,

732
00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:26,920
Speaker 1: and I can understand why. It's it's strange to me

733
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:30,520
Speaker 1: how much people are willing to excuse from Assange and

734
00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:34,680
Speaker 1: it's it's even more bizarre in some ways how Snowdon

735
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:39,360
Speaker 1: is is considered a hero. Not just by radical leftist

736
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:45,640
Speaker 1: progressive you know, not crazy folks who think that somehow

737
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:50,080
Speaker 1: undermineing the United States is always the interests of humanity,

738
00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:53,879
Speaker 1: which is the opposite I think of reality, but by

739
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:56,160
Speaker 1: some Republicans I know too. Oh yeah, yeah, it's good.

740
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:58,839
Speaker 1: What Snowdon did was good. No, I think what Snowe

741
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:01,640
Speaker 1: did was pretty terrible. So Pompeio came out and spoke

742
00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:03,560
Speaker 1: about that today. UM, I want to talk about the

743
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:06,840
Speaker 1: e p A as well as getting into the politics

744
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:09,560
Speaker 1: of the day. Here in a couple of minutes. Uh,

745
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:12,520
Speaker 1: phone lines are open eight four four buck, that's eight

746
00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:16,440
Speaker 1: four four to eight to five. Be back in just

747
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:21,080
Speaker 1: a few. And before I come back in just a few,

748
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:25,520
Speaker 1: let me also tell you about simply safe, my friends. Uh.

749
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:29,560
Speaker 1: There are countless stories that you can look at across

750
00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:34,200
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751
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Speaker 1: fire burns down their home. Something that was just uh

752
00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:41,759
Speaker 1: that with just a little bit of preparation, Um of

753
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:44,840
Speaker 1: having the right system in place could have been the difference.

754
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:49,080
Speaker 1: And instead of just having to call fire department or

755
00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:52,680
Speaker 1: to call emergency authorities. UM, it was too late. Uh,

756
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Speaker 1: and the phone call wasn't made in time. Simply Safe

757
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Speaker 1: Home Security make sure that if there's a fire that starts,

758
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759
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760
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Speaker 1: and your home just having a visit from your local

761
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Speaker 1: file department or authorities to take care of things. Simply

762
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763
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764
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765
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766
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767
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768
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769
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770
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771
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777
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:02,920
Speaker 1: right back. I have to tell you I've never seen

778
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:06,200
Speaker 1: anything quite like this in the news reporting, at least

779
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:08,719
Speaker 1: not that I can remember. I mentioned you that NBC

780
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:12,200
Speaker 1: News headline. Let me just give you what they are reporting,

781
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:14,359
Speaker 1: and this is. This is just as of the last

782
00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:16,640
Speaker 1: as of the last hour while we've been on air,

783
00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:20,320
Speaker 1: from NBC News, US may launch strike if North Korea

784
00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:24,960
Speaker 1: reaches for nuclear trigger. The US is prepared to launch

785
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:28,400
Speaker 1: a preemptive strike with conventional weapons against North Korea should

786
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:31,560
Speaker 1: officials become convinced that North Korea is about to follow

787
00:48:31,680 --> 00:48:35,680
Speaker 1: through with a nuclear weapons test. Multiple senior US officials

788
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:39,279
Speaker 1: told NBC News. North Korea has warned that a big

789
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:42,279
Speaker 1: event is near, and US officials say signs point to

790
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:46,000
Speaker 1: a nuclear task that could come as early as this weekend.

791
00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:49,360
Speaker 1: Intellient officials told NBC News that the US has positioned

792
00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:53,200
Speaker 1: two destroyers capable of shooting Tomahawk cruise missiles in the region,

793
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:56,399
Speaker 1: one just three miles from North Korean nuclear test site.

794
00:48:56,960 --> 00:48:59,760
Speaker 1: American heavy bombers are also positioned in Guam to attack

795
00:48:59,840 --> 00:49:03,080
Speaker 1: More Korea should it be necessary, and earlier this week,

796
00:49:03,880 --> 00:49:07,080
Speaker 1: the Pentagon announced the USS Carl Vincent Aircraft Carrier Strike

797
00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:10,400
Speaker 1: Group was being diverted to the area. Strike could include

798
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:14,880
Speaker 1: missiles and bombs, cyber and special operations on the ground.

799
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:20,880
Speaker 1: This is uh, this is tense. I think we can

800
00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:24,360
Speaker 1: all say that this is tense. Um. All right, Dennis

801
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:27,080
Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania, Welcome to the Freedom Home, my friend. Good

802
00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:29,839
Speaker 1: to have you. Yes, thank you for taking my call.

803
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:33,040
Speaker 1: In a reference to the prior conversation about Snowding and

804
00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:36,640
Speaker 1: other leakers, I agree to a point with you. Our

805
00:49:36,719 --> 00:49:39,759
Speaker 1: national secrets should not be discussed or are are people

806
00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:42,360
Speaker 1: should not be put in danger. Put my question to you,

807
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:45,640
Speaker 1: and please understand, not trying to be sarcastic, but without

808
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:48,960
Speaker 1: people like Snowdon, how would we have known about unsecured servers,

809
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:54,000
Speaker 1: Bernie Sanders having his his presidential ambition sabotized by W.

810
00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:58,239
Speaker 1: Westermin Schultz and ben Ghazi the lie Well wait, what

811
00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:01,960
Speaker 1: is I'm confined seeing the connection between Snowdon and the

812
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:07,880
Speaker 1: Bernie Sanders servers. Well, I'm saying that these people were exposed.

813
00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:10,520
Speaker 1: In general, stuff that's been going on we would have

814
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:14,960
Speaker 1: never known about because obviously the Democrats and or the

815
00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:17,320
Speaker 1: people in power would have not told us about the

816
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:20,680
Speaker 1: unsecured service. We would have not known about Sanders having

817
00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:24,400
Speaker 1: his his presidential hope sabotaged and being Ghazi that it

818
00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:27,960
Speaker 1: was it was just a bunch of people. Or do

819
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:31,680
Speaker 1: you not believe that the that the Russians hacked Bernie

820
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:35,240
Speaker 1: Sanders is or sorry, the Russians hacked not Bernie Sanders

821
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:39,080
Speaker 1: but the d n C. And uh, I'm forgetting the

822
00:50:39,120 --> 00:50:40,880
Speaker 1: guy's name right now. You know what I'm talking about.

823
00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:44,239
Speaker 1: I'm I'm blanking on his name. The guy who was

824
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:50,040
Speaker 1: key Hillary Aid chairman of her campaign, that guy. Anyway,

825
00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:54,400
Speaker 1: I'm just blanking. You don't believe Russians did that? I

826
00:50:54,440 --> 00:50:57,200
Speaker 1: mean that that wasn't that the Russians? When I'm missing, well,

827
00:50:57,280 --> 00:50:59,200
Speaker 1: let me let me just put it to you this way. Okay,

828
00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:02,719
Speaker 1: say it was the Russians. Say it will say, oh, Podesta, Podesta.

829
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:04,480
Speaker 1: There we go. I kept wanting to say Pompeo, and

830
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:06,360
Speaker 1: I'm like, he's a CE or Podesta. There we go.

831
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:09,279
Speaker 1: Sorry I forgot about his name since he just put up.

832
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:13,800
Speaker 1: But let's just let's be real here. North Korea, China, Iraq,

833
00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:18,640
Speaker 1: all these countries, Russia, all these countries by their stuff,

834
00:51:18,719 --> 00:51:21,200
Speaker 1: and I sawed. I watched it on my computer screen

835
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:24,600
Speaker 1: when the FBI was questioned and the high ranking officials

836
00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:28,320
Speaker 1: said that Congress are the Senate and the House couldn't

837
00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:32,000
Speaker 1: be given this information. It was so top secret that

838
00:51:32,080 --> 00:51:35,840
Speaker 1: it went a level above them in the FBI. So

839
00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:38,400
Speaker 1: all of this was going out all over the world.

840
00:51:38,880 --> 00:51:42,160
Speaker 1: Nothing's happening to these politicians that are that are violating

841
00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:45,600
Speaker 1: protocol or what they've been taught. But the small man

842
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:48,600
Speaker 1: or the small woman, if we I was in the service,

843
00:51:48,680 --> 00:51:51,560
Speaker 1: if I did a fraction of that, I was. I

844
00:51:51,719 --> 00:51:54,480
Speaker 1: was the sergeant on when they had the Minuteman missiles.

845
00:51:54,520 --> 00:51:56,680
Speaker 1: And I'm going way back now in the seventies we

846
00:51:56,800 --> 00:51:59,640
Speaker 1: had codes. We had to destroy the codes after we

847
00:52:00,200 --> 00:52:03,560
Speaker 1: checked somebody in this is this is obscene. It's our

848
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:06,719
Speaker 1: it's I believe in our government to a point. But

849
00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:10,120
Speaker 1: what's going on behind the lines that we're not being told?

850
00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:12,320
Speaker 1: And if it wasn't for these leaks, we wouldn't have

851
00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:14,879
Speaker 1: known about the real story about in guys, even though

852
00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:17,359
Speaker 1: we had our hunches, we wouldn't known about Bernie Well.

853
00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:19,120
Speaker 1: Hold hold on, hold on, hold on a second, Hold

854
00:52:19,160 --> 00:52:21,920
Speaker 1: on a second. Dennis. I'm not opposed to all leaks

855
00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:26,440
Speaker 1: and all disclosures of information. I'm opposed to what wiki

856
00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:30,839
Speaker 1: leaks has done with US information, whether talking about Chelsea

857
00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:35,040
Speaker 1: Manning or other leaks of of classified out there. Um,

858
00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:39,360
Speaker 1: that's that's not helpful to what I mean. The Chelsea

859
00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:42,359
Speaker 1: Manning situation is a perfect example. There was nothing, there

860
00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:45,160
Speaker 1: was no mouth, there's no US mouth feasance that was exposed.

861
00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:48,520
Speaker 1: It was just let's just put all this classified diplomatic

862
00:52:48,560 --> 00:52:51,000
Speaker 1: and military traffic out there. Well what is that? That

863
00:52:51,160 --> 00:52:53,359
Speaker 1: that just hurts the u S national interest? There's there

864
00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:55,719
Speaker 1: was no benefit from any of that. No, I I'm

865
00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:58,560
Speaker 1: agreeing percent with you. What I'm what I'm stating is, Okay,

866
00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:01,160
Speaker 1: I know that that's wrong, and he or she or

867
00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:04,640
Speaker 1: whatever he decided is now stuff like that. I believe

868
00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:07,440
Speaker 1: that's wrong. Well, how do we find out what our

869
00:53:07,520 --> 00:53:10,560
Speaker 1: own governments? And if there's there's no leakers out there?

870
00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:12,200
Speaker 1: I mean, well there are a lot of but there

871
00:53:12,239 --> 00:53:14,040
Speaker 1: are a lot of leakers that the questions the question

872
00:53:14,120 --> 00:53:16,239
Speaker 1: is what what are you leaking? Right? I mean if

873
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:19,920
Speaker 1: you're leaking, uh, if you're leaking information that makes it

874
00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:25,160
Speaker 1: harder for US to collect information on terrorist organizations, on

875
00:53:25,560 --> 00:53:29,279
Speaker 1: enemy powers, that's that's just hurting us. That's not helpful too,

876
00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:32,040
Speaker 1: That's not helpful to any American and if but if

877
00:53:32,080 --> 00:53:35,440
Speaker 1: you're leaking information about an an illegal program that's going

878
00:53:35,480 --> 00:53:37,840
Speaker 1: on inside the United States. Yeah, but I want to

879
00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:41,000
Speaker 1: hear about that. And look, there there have been cases

880
00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:42,440
Speaker 1: and that there haven't. There was that n S a

881
00:53:42,520 --> 00:53:46,320
Speaker 1: whistle blower who came for who initially gave information to

882
00:53:46,400 --> 00:53:48,640
Speaker 1: the press. Then the government went after him. They ended

883
00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:51,960
Speaker 1: up dropping all the charges and that was pretty terrifying.

884
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:54,280
Speaker 1: I mean, look, I I understand that the government pretends

885
00:53:54,280 --> 00:53:58,520
Speaker 1: stuff is classified that really isn't. The government plays games here. Uh,

886
00:53:58,680 --> 00:54:01,719
Speaker 1: there's a lot of polite, a size prosecution that goes on,

887
00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:04,120
Speaker 1: especially in the realm of national security. The fact that

888
00:54:04,239 --> 00:54:07,680
Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton was not prosecuted for what she did is

889
00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:11,160
Speaker 1: an absolute scandal, especially when you see other people for

890
00:54:11,440 --> 00:54:14,400
Speaker 1: much less having their careers and lives ruined going off

891
00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:18,520
Speaker 1: to prison felony convictions. Uh in some cases for for

892
00:54:18,640 --> 00:54:22,480
Speaker 1: active Formarine. Yeah, I'm thinking of I was thinking of

893
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:25,080
Speaker 1: the guy on the submarine. You know, come on, Uh,

894
00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:28,080
Speaker 1: I'm I'm aware of all that. I'm not Look, I

895
00:54:28,280 --> 00:54:30,720
Speaker 1: wasn't saying I'm not making a case that just because

896
00:54:30,760 --> 00:54:32,560
Speaker 1: the government says so that's the way it needs to be.

897
00:54:33,239 --> 00:54:36,120
Speaker 1: But what Snowdon did is reckless, and what Wiki leaks

898
00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:40,800
Speaker 1: does is is an adjunct to Russian and other enemy

899
00:54:40,880 --> 00:54:44,960
Speaker 1: efforts to undermine our our faith in government entirely in

900
00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:48,200
Speaker 1: this country, but also to harm sources and methods and

901
00:54:49,000 --> 00:54:52,520
Speaker 1: and undermine the U S Intelligence and military apparatus, and

902
00:54:52,920 --> 00:54:56,719
Speaker 1: which is really dangerous. It's not good, it's not helpful. Well,

903
00:54:56,760 --> 00:54:58,839
Speaker 1: I agree, but what what can we do? How can

904
00:54:59,040 --> 00:55:01,520
Speaker 1: how can the a rich person, the text payer, the man,

905
00:55:01,600 --> 00:55:03,880
Speaker 1: the woman worker that you know? How do we know

906
00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:06,960
Speaker 1: what our government is doing? Because everything is sush us

907
00:55:07,080 --> 00:55:09,759
Speaker 1: behind clues doors. I'm not talking about you know, uh as,

908
00:55:09,800 --> 00:55:11,799
Speaker 1: spies and that kind of different things which we need

909
00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:13,400
Speaker 1: in you know, but every country is doing it. But

910
00:55:13,480 --> 00:55:15,759
Speaker 1: how do we find out what our government or are

911
00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:19,000
Speaker 1: people are doing wrong? Well, Dennis, I appre I will

912
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:20,839
Speaker 1: answer your question, but I gotta move on because we've

913
00:55:20,840 --> 00:55:22,359
Speaker 1: got a bunch of calls off. But thank you. Um

914
00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:26,520
Speaker 1: to to Dennis's question. Uh, well, we of course we

915
00:55:26,600 --> 00:55:30,279
Speaker 1: have Congress doing oversight. And whether that makes you feel

916
00:55:30,680 --> 00:55:32,200
Speaker 1: warm and fuzzy when you go to bed at night

917
00:55:32,320 --> 00:55:33,800
Speaker 1: or not, I I leave that up to you. I

918
00:55:33,920 --> 00:55:36,920
Speaker 1: know that Congress is not exactly letting my world on

919
00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:39,640
Speaker 1: fire these days either, I'm aware. But you do have

920
00:55:39,760 --> 00:55:44,080
Speaker 1: Congress in place with that description, and they have access,

921
00:55:44,160 --> 00:55:47,080
Speaker 1: they have committees, and they have access to classified information.

922
00:55:47,160 --> 00:55:51,160
Speaker 1: They can see what's going on. Um, So there's that.

923
00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:54,000
Speaker 1: There also are selected leaks to the press that I

924
00:55:54,080 --> 00:55:57,800
Speaker 1: think sometimes are justifiable depending on what we're talking about.

925
00:55:57,920 --> 00:56:01,359
Speaker 1: But if there's illegal activity or legal government collection going

926
00:56:01,400 --> 00:56:04,680
Speaker 1: on against against the American people, then yeah, that I

927
00:56:04,719 --> 00:56:07,080
Speaker 1: would want to know about that. But anything the government

928
00:56:07,160 --> 00:56:10,240
Speaker 1: is doing in terms of intelligence work outside of US borders,

929
00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:14,800
Speaker 1: that's that's under their mandate, and god bless you know

930
00:56:14,880 --> 00:56:17,600
Speaker 1: that they should be doing that stuff. And unless it's

931
00:56:17,640 --> 00:56:19,640
Speaker 1: like deeply am moral, we're talking about some program we're

932
00:56:19,680 --> 00:56:23,480
Speaker 1: running around, you know, assassinating people for no reason or that,

933
00:56:23,560 --> 00:56:25,239
Speaker 1: that obviously be a problem too. But I'm saying in

934
00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:28,239
Speaker 1: terms of information collection, whatever the intelligence community is doing

935
00:56:28,280 --> 00:56:32,640
Speaker 1: outside of the US, um, that's that's it's mandate, that's

936
00:56:32,680 --> 00:56:37,200
Speaker 1: its mission, and Congress has oversight. UM. Barry in Mississippi,

937
00:56:37,640 --> 00:56:44,680
Speaker 1: welcome to the freedom. Hup, my friend. How you doing good? Sir? Hey,

938
00:56:44,719 --> 00:56:47,920
Speaker 1: I gotta ask you because you might know, uh, do

939
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:50,400
Speaker 1: you have any doubt at all that it was Facad

940
00:56:50,760 --> 00:56:53,560
Speaker 1: that dropped the gas, because you know a lot of

941
00:56:53,680 --> 00:56:56,600
Speaker 1: us are kind of worried about the Muslim brotherhood and

942
00:56:56,680 --> 00:56:59,680
Speaker 1: the fact that Aasad might be the fifth secular dictator

943
00:56:59,800 --> 00:57:03,279
Speaker 1: that protected Christians to go down. Well, if it's if

944
00:57:03,320 --> 00:57:06,600
Speaker 1: it's a if it's a false flag, it's a really

945
00:57:07,480 --> 00:57:10,080
Speaker 1: risky one on a number of levels. And and first

946
00:57:10,160 --> 00:57:12,560
Speaker 1: let's start with the one that I think goes to

947
00:57:12,760 --> 00:57:15,880
Speaker 1: your argument, and there and therefore to the question, the

948
00:57:16,040 --> 00:57:19,520
Speaker 1: one of efficacy. Why would this usage Because there have

949
00:57:19,600 --> 00:57:22,520
Speaker 1: been many usages of chemical weapons, many deployments of chemical

950
00:57:22,600 --> 00:57:26,600
Speaker 1: weapons against civilians in serious stretching back for years. So

951
00:57:27,360 --> 00:57:30,680
Speaker 1: unless all of them, and they're all attributable, by the way,

952
00:57:30,760 --> 00:57:33,200
Speaker 1: with the exception maybe of some chlorine bombs that isis

953
00:57:33,240 --> 00:57:34,880
Speaker 1: may have used. I know they've done that in a rock.

954
00:57:34,920 --> 00:57:36,040
Speaker 1: I have to look and see if they've done it

955
00:57:36,040 --> 00:57:40,480
Speaker 1: in Syria, but all attributed attributable to the Assad regime.

956
00:57:41,160 --> 00:57:43,640
Speaker 1: So unless they're all fakes and none of them have

957
00:57:43,720 --> 00:57:46,680
Speaker 1: been exposed as fakes, meaning that not that the attack

958
00:57:46,800 --> 00:57:49,560
Speaker 1: was fake, but that the responsibility was faked, and that

959
00:57:49,640 --> 00:57:52,080
Speaker 1: it was a false flag put on the Assad regime.

960
00:57:52,840 --> 00:57:55,640
Speaker 1: Why would you know, why would they do it this time? Right?

961
00:57:55,800 --> 00:57:59,640
Speaker 1: So there was an attack? No, I'm so I'm saying

962
00:57:59,680 --> 00:58:02,080
Speaker 1: that you would have just you know, a couple of weeks.

963
00:58:02,120 --> 00:58:04,280
Speaker 1: So are you convinced there was even an attack? Maybe

964
00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:07,760
Speaker 1: it was just trumped up with videos? And yeah, I know,

965
00:58:07,880 --> 00:58:10,640
Speaker 1: I'm I'm I'm convinced there was an attack because the

966
00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:14,960
Speaker 1: people that uh that monitor of this and have access

967
00:58:15,040 --> 00:58:18,320
Speaker 1: to information from our own government, who are patriots and

968
00:58:18,520 --> 00:58:20,440
Speaker 1: and I think have our best interests at heart as

969
00:58:20,520 --> 00:58:25,080
Speaker 1: much as they can, Uh, they they are very clear

970
00:58:25,160 --> 00:58:27,120
Speaker 1: that there was this attack that happened. I mean, there's

971
00:58:27,120 --> 00:58:29,280
Speaker 1: there's no there's no way fans or butts in their mind.

972
00:58:30,160 --> 00:58:31,840
Speaker 1: I know that we can always get down the pathway

973
00:58:31,840 --> 00:58:34,160
Speaker 1: of like, well, Buck, you weren't there, and yeah, that's true.

974
00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:36,360
Speaker 1: I'm not. But but if we're gonna, if we're gonna

975
00:58:36,400 --> 00:58:38,400
Speaker 1: hold me that that standard, I mean, I don't want

976
00:58:38,440 --> 00:58:41,000
Speaker 1: to tell you, right, I mean, there's no I can't.

977
00:58:41,000 --> 00:58:42,680
Speaker 1: I can't talk about anything then that I haven't seen.

978
00:58:42,720 --> 00:58:45,080
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be walking around here talking about the best

979
00:58:45,120 --> 00:58:47,280
Speaker 1: coffee shops and places to buy books in New York City.

980
00:58:47,280 --> 00:58:48,680
Speaker 1: I mean there's there's only so much you can see

981
00:58:48,720 --> 00:58:51,440
Speaker 1: with your own eyes. Um. So you know, I I

982
00:58:51,920 --> 00:58:54,080
Speaker 1: don't believe these conspiracy theories that are out there. I

983
00:58:54,120 --> 00:58:57,360
Speaker 1: don't believe it was a false flag. Um and and

984
00:58:57,520 --> 00:58:59,880
Speaker 1: I also when you look at the reasoning forget about

985
00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:02,000
Speaker 1: taking the word of our government, look at the reasoning

986
00:59:02,720 --> 00:59:05,640
Speaker 1: and the motivations, and it just doesn't stack up. But

987
00:59:05,720 --> 00:59:09,200
Speaker 1: we gotta go to break. I'll be right back. He

988
00:59:09,480 --> 00:59:15,120
Speaker 1: spreads freedom because freedom is not gonna spread itself. Bug

989
00:59:15,200 --> 00:59:19,280
Speaker 1: sex in his back. I've got our friend Charles Cook online.

990
00:59:19,320 --> 00:59:23,080
Speaker 1: He's editor for National Review Online. He's the author of

991
00:59:23,200 --> 00:59:25,880
Speaker 1: the Conservatory Manifesto. Charles. Good to have you, Thanks for

992
00:59:25,920 --> 00:59:31,080
Speaker 1: stopping by, Thanks for helping. Let's talk about this journalist

993
00:59:31,360 --> 00:59:36,320
Speaker 1: over at what are the Politico, Josh Dawzy, who recently

994
00:59:37,280 --> 00:59:43,400
Speaker 1: uh thought that Jeff Sessions he tweeted out and look Twitter, everybody,

995
00:59:43,440 --> 00:59:46,120
Speaker 1: everybody makes mistakes. And I'm not somebody who likes to

996
00:59:46,200 --> 00:59:48,640
Speaker 1: do the oh, you know, call for firing all the

997
00:59:48,720 --> 00:59:50,800
Speaker 1: time and everything else. But but there's more to this

998
00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:52,640
Speaker 1: than just a mistake. And that's what I wanted to

999
00:59:52,680 --> 00:59:54,880
Speaker 1: talk to you about. So this guy from Politico goes

1000
00:59:54,960 --> 01:00:00,360
Speaker 1: on Twitter and thinks that Jeff Sessions in a public

1001
01:00:00,480 --> 01:00:05,400
Speaker 1: speech referred to immigrants as filth Ah. He came out

1002
01:00:05,480 --> 01:00:07,840
Speaker 1: later and said, Okay, I I I messed up on

1003
01:00:07,920 --> 01:00:10,920
Speaker 1: that one. But I think that this is indicative of

1004
01:00:11,040 --> 01:00:14,080
Speaker 1: a widespread mentality among a lot of journalists, and especially

1005
01:00:14,120 --> 01:00:16,960
Speaker 1: when it comes to covering anybody with the Trump administration,

1006
01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:21,280
Speaker 1: that otherwise rational people whose job it is to be

1007
01:00:21,440 --> 01:00:24,720
Speaker 1: skeptical and be accurate, all of a sudden are incapable

1008
01:00:24,760 --> 01:00:29,720
Speaker 1: of those things. Yes, I'm not one to crucify people

1009
01:00:29,800 --> 01:00:32,840
Speaker 1: who make mistakes either, but there is a pattern here,

1010
01:00:33,760 --> 01:00:38,880
Speaker 1: and it's a pattern that is born of misunderstanding and

1011
01:00:39,000 --> 01:00:43,800
Speaker 1: of ignorance, and some of that ignorance is wilful. The

1012
01:00:43,920 --> 01:00:47,320
Speaker 1: fact is that since Staral Trump was elected, and you

1013
01:00:47,400 --> 01:00:51,080
Speaker 1: know as well as I know, the National Review and

1014
01:00:52,000 --> 01:00:56,800
Speaker 1: I were critics of Trump's Since Starald Trump was elected,

1015
01:00:57,480 --> 01:01:01,360
Speaker 1: the press seems to have put down it's fact checking

1016
01:01:01,480 --> 01:01:05,360
Speaker 1: red pens, and it seems to have abandoned its skepticism.

1017
01:01:05,920 --> 01:01:08,720
Speaker 1: And the reason for that is that it has preconceived

1018
01:01:08,800 --> 01:01:14,240
Speaker 1: notions not only of what conservatives believe, but of what

1019
01:01:14,400 --> 01:01:20,400
Speaker 1: Donald Trump and those around him are like, and therefore

1020
01:01:21,600 --> 01:01:25,360
Speaker 1: anything which comes across the transom is deemed to be

1021
01:01:25,920 --> 01:01:30,760
Speaker 1: obviously and self evidently true. And so we have a

1022
01:01:30,880 --> 01:01:35,640
Speaker 1: journalist I use that word advisedly who sees the word

1023
01:01:35,800 --> 01:01:40,560
Speaker 1: filth in assessions sentence and assumes that he must have

1024
01:01:40,640 --> 01:01:45,520
Speaker 1: been referring to immigrants. This is a pattern, as I say,

1025
01:01:45,960 --> 01:01:51,200
Speaker 1: that has established itself now, and it is embarrassing, and

1026
01:01:51,440 --> 01:01:54,280
Speaker 1: it's contributing to a culture in which people don't listen

1027
01:01:54,360 --> 01:01:57,240
Speaker 1: to the press and don't believe what they read in

1028
01:01:57,280 --> 01:01:59,800
Speaker 1: the newspapers. And that's not a good trend overall. Now,

1029
01:02:00,120 --> 01:02:01,760
Speaker 1: I'm not going to go as far as to say

1030
01:02:01,880 --> 01:02:04,160
Speaker 1: that I think there are a lot of journalists who

1031
01:02:04,240 --> 01:02:08,200
Speaker 1: are who are doing what I'm about to assert, but

1032
01:02:08,320 --> 01:02:10,400
Speaker 1: I think it factors into it a little bit. And

1033
01:02:10,600 --> 01:02:12,800
Speaker 1: that's the following Charles. I think that there are some

1034
01:02:13,080 --> 01:02:16,200
Speaker 1: who I feel like, instead of the tie goes to

1035
01:02:16,280 --> 01:02:19,240
Speaker 1: the runner, in this case being the administration, that tie

1036
01:02:19,240 --> 01:02:21,919
Speaker 1: always goes against the runner. If it's close, it goes

1037
01:02:22,080 --> 01:02:25,400
Speaker 1: against the administration, or if there's any question, it goes

1038
01:02:25,440 --> 01:02:28,720
Speaker 1: against the administration, even at the expense of perhaps being

1039
01:02:28,840 --> 01:02:32,840
Speaker 1: wrong on something, because the initial impact and I mean

1040
01:02:32,920 --> 01:02:39,000
Speaker 1: that in terms of retweets, readership also forming or the

1041
01:02:39,240 --> 01:02:43,320
Speaker 1: the opinion forming aspects of information being out there are

1042
01:02:43,480 --> 01:02:46,520
Speaker 1: are useful, meaning that you run with a story even

1043
01:02:46,560 --> 01:02:48,520
Speaker 1: if you're not sure if it's true or it seems

1044
01:02:48,560 --> 01:02:50,440
Speaker 1: it should seem a little dodgy to a to a

1045
01:02:50,520 --> 01:02:52,720
Speaker 1: season journalists, but you run with it because it hurts

1046
01:02:52,760 --> 01:02:55,320
Speaker 1: the administration, makes them look bad, plays to your base,

1047
01:02:55,520 --> 01:02:57,560
Speaker 1: makes them happy. And then if you have to do

1048
01:02:57,640 --> 01:03:00,560
Speaker 1: a retraction, well it's no big deal because you've already

1049
01:03:00,560 --> 01:03:03,600
Speaker 1: gotten the benefit of running it. Well. I think that's

1050
01:03:03,640 --> 01:03:07,640
Speaker 1: exactly right. The only thing I would quibble with you

1051
01:03:07,800 --> 01:03:11,760
Speaker 1: on is that there's a tie involved. It's not that

1052
01:03:11,920 --> 01:03:15,120
Speaker 1: the tie goes again to the Trump I don't like

1053
01:03:15,200 --> 01:03:16,640
Speaker 1: my analogy. They're either I agree with you, I was

1054
01:03:16,640 --> 01:03:18,800
Speaker 1: just looking for something to go ahead. I don't think

1055
01:03:18,840 --> 01:03:21,120
Speaker 1: it's a bad analogy. I just think that it's not

1056
01:03:21,280 --> 01:03:25,040
Speaker 1: so much that these questions and the Trump administration is losing.

1057
01:03:25,160 --> 01:03:29,120
Speaker 1: It's that there is a tiny piece of evidence or

1058
01:03:29,200 --> 01:03:33,840
Speaker 1: information or rumor or hearsay, and the piece is written

1059
01:03:34,640 --> 01:03:37,760
Speaker 1: and it later comes out that there was nothing to

1060
01:03:37,880 --> 01:03:40,800
Speaker 1: it at all. And I think your explanation of of

1061
01:03:40,960 --> 01:03:45,200
Speaker 1: the difference between the initial story and the correction. It's

1062
01:03:45,240 --> 01:03:50,360
Speaker 1: exactly right. And this has become something of a party

1063
01:03:50,440 --> 01:03:53,600
Speaker 1: trick now for conservatives. You follow the media to point

1064
01:03:53,680 --> 01:03:56,280
Speaker 1: out that the lie gets ten thousand retweets and the

1065
01:03:56,320 --> 01:04:00,240
Speaker 1: correction gets retweets. Is that right? And I also think

1066
01:04:00,280 --> 01:04:03,960
Speaker 1: that from a from a business model perspective, as as

1067
01:04:04,000 --> 01:04:08,840
Speaker 1: the media is increasingly splintered into these different echo chambers,

1068
01:04:08,920 --> 01:04:10,680
Speaker 1: and that's been happening for a long time, and it's

1069
01:04:10,760 --> 01:04:13,080
Speaker 1: it's a whole other conversation that we could have. But

1070
01:04:13,520 --> 01:04:17,120
Speaker 1: there there are clearly media outlets with considerable reach that

1071
01:04:17,240 --> 01:04:22,200
Speaker 1: know that they are uh there there for a certain constituency.

1072
01:04:22,480 --> 01:04:24,760
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, the Washington Post, I'm sure is aware.

1073
01:04:25,280 --> 01:04:27,000
Speaker 1: And that's a that's a big one that at least

1074
01:04:27,040 --> 01:04:28,440
Speaker 1: does try to get it right most of the time.

1075
01:04:28,480 --> 01:04:30,720
Speaker 1: If we were talking about the nation, I don't even

1076
01:04:30,760 --> 01:04:32,720
Speaker 1: think there's the pretense of of trying to be in

1077
01:04:32,760 --> 01:04:35,480
Speaker 1: any way impartial, right, But the Washington Post at least

1078
01:04:35,520 --> 01:04:37,280
Speaker 1: tries to get its facts right. It's supposed to, but

1079
01:04:37,400 --> 01:04:41,720
Speaker 1: knows that I would guess seventy percent of its readership

1080
01:04:41,840 --> 01:04:45,920
Speaker 1: is probably anti Trump, maybe more, but certainly a a

1081
01:04:46,080 --> 01:04:48,960
Speaker 1: large majority of it. And so by running an anti

1082
01:04:49,000 --> 01:04:51,880
Speaker 1: Trump story, as you pointed out, even based on a

1083
01:04:51,960 --> 01:04:55,360
Speaker 1: pretty flimsy assertion by a source that they won't name,

1084
01:04:55,840 --> 01:04:58,960
Speaker 1: they get the benefit of the clicks and the you know,

1085
01:04:59,080 --> 01:05:02,520
Speaker 1: the people turn into their story. It goes into the

1086
01:05:02,840 --> 01:05:06,440
Speaker 1: perception molding of the Trump administration is what you think

1087
01:05:06,520 --> 01:05:08,960
Speaker 1: it is, and by the time people realize it's not

1088
01:05:09,000 --> 01:05:10,920
Speaker 1: the case, who cares? Right? I mean that, you know,

1089
01:05:10,960 --> 01:05:12,640
Speaker 1: you run one on the front page and then the

1090
01:05:12,760 --> 01:05:16,600
Speaker 1: retractions a week later on page c seventeen. I think

1091
01:05:16,640 --> 01:05:20,160
Speaker 1: there's something more sinister than that. Even everything you've just

1092
01:05:20,160 --> 01:05:23,880
Speaker 1: said is correct, there is an illiberalism at play here.

1093
01:05:23,920 --> 01:05:26,840
Speaker 1: And I use that word in the classical sense. In

1094
01:05:26,960 --> 01:05:32,240
Speaker 1: my sense of the word, there is a rejection of

1095
01:05:32,320 --> 01:05:37,200
Speaker 1: the Enlightenment at play here. The fact is that it

1096
01:05:37,280 --> 01:05:40,960
Speaker 1: doesn't matter whether somebody is liked or disliked, is a

1097
01:05:41,040 --> 01:05:43,720
Speaker 1: good or bad person. The truth is the truth, Reason

1098
01:05:43,880 --> 01:05:49,800
Speaker 1: is reason. And yet when it is pointed out that

1099
01:05:50,680 --> 01:05:56,200
Speaker 1: the critics of Trump and his administration are being unfair,

1100
01:05:56,920 --> 01:06:02,800
Speaker 1: one his well, because they're not good people anyway, Well,

1101
01:06:02,880 --> 01:06:06,040
Speaker 1: that's subjective. It's also besides the point. We saw this

1102
01:06:06,480 --> 01:06:11,320
Speaker 1: perfectly illustrated what happened to Sean Spicer the other day.

1103
01:06:11,800 --> 01:06:15,360
Speaker 1: Sean Spicer is not particularly good at his job. He

1104
01:06:15,760 --> 01:06:19,840
Speaker 1: is at times ineloquent. For somebody in communications, there's a

1105
01:06:19,920 --> 01:06:24,920
Speaker 1: lot there to be desired, but Sean Spicer is and

1106
01:06:25,040 --> 01:06:31,080
Speaker 1: nobody believes this not a Holocaust denier. And yet the

1107
01:06:31,200 --> 01:06:34,080
Speaker 1: press was very very quick to label him as a

1108
01:06:34,160 --> 01:06:36,720
Speaker 1: Holocaust denier or as somebody who didn't know that the

1109
01:06:36,760 --> 01:06:41,440
Speaker 1: Holocaust had happened, because he used a poor analogy between

1110
01:06:41,920 --> 01:06:47,080
Speaker 1: Bashara Sad and Adolf Hitler. And I saw over and

1111
01:06:47,200 --> 01:06:52,240
Speaker 1: over again people saying, well, okay, maybe that's hyperbole, but

1112
01:06:52,400 --> 01:06:55,520
Speaker 1: it's Sean Spicer and he works for Trump, So why

1113
01:06:55,560 --> 01:06:57,800
Speaker 1: do you care anyway? Why care anyway? Because they care

1114
01:06:57,800 --> 01:07:00,560
Speaker 1: about truth and I care about fairness and I care

1115
01:07:00,600 --> 01:07:03,120
Speaker 1: about justice, and I think give us as society, we

1116
01:07:03,280 --> 01:07:05,840
Speaker 1: go down this road where the Washington Post, in the

1117
01:07:05,880 --> 01:07:09,320
Speaker 1: New York Times and other mainstream outlets are happy to

1118
01:07:09,440 --> 01:07:12,160
Speaker 1: malign people and to lie about them and never to

1119
01:07:12,200 --> 01:07:14,560
Speaker 1: give them the benefit of the doubt, purely because in

1120
01:07:14,800 --> 01:07:18,600
Speaker 1: general they think that they are not worth it. Then

1121
01:07:18,640 --> 01:07:22,680
Speaker 1: we're going to reverse hundreds of years worth of progress

1122
01:07:22,800 --> 01:07:27,080
Speaker 1: in reason and justice. Jennifer Palm Palmieri, who is the

1123
01:07:27,240 --> 01:07:30,640
Speaker 1: communications director for Hillary Clinton. She was willing to say

1124
01:07:31,880 --> 01:07:35,479
Speaker 1: yesterday that you know what the media does, slit left,

1125
01:07:35,520 --> 01:07:38,760
Speaker 1: but then had this priceless bit of analysis to add

1126
01:07:38,800 --> 01:07:43,160
Speaker 1: into it as well. Six. I think most journalists are

1127
01:07:43,240 --> 01:07:46,120
Speaker 1: probably leaning more to the left than the right. Think

1128
01:07:46,160 --> 01:07:48,040
Speaker 1: about the kind of person that's drawn to do this

1129
01:07:48,120 --> 01:07:51,800
Speaker 1: as a career. Um, you know, they believe in government,

1130
01:07:51,960 --> 01:07:55,120
Speaker 1: they think politics matters, they like it, they find it interesting.

1131
01:07:56,480 --> 01:08:01,520
Speaker 1: I definitely found a different standard and covering Democrats and

1132
01:08:01,560 --> 01:08:07,120
Speaker 1: the covering Republicans, um and uh not necessarily, it's just

1133
01:08:07,320 --> 01:08:10,800
Speaker 1: a different metric that they apply to us to Democrats,

1134
01:08:10,840 --> 01:08:13,760
Speaker 1: and I think they come after us harder on both

1135
01:08:14,400 --> 01:08:17,720
Speaker 1: being able to solve a problem um or and then

1136
01:08:17,800 --> 01:08:23,400
Speaker 1: also on the on on on process and intrigue. She

1137
01:08:23,560 --> 01:08:26,000
Speaker 1: thinks that they're tougher. What do you think about that, Charles.

1138
01:08:27,320 --> 01:08:31,160
Speaker 1: I love the idea that the press is obsessed with process.

1139
01:08:32,439 --> 01:08:35,360
Speaker 1: If that were true, I wouldn't have a job. Yeah.

1140
01:08:35,400 --> 01:08:37,439
Speaker 1: I mean, one of the more fun things pointing out

1141
01:08:37,520 --> 01:08:40,479
Speaker 1: how they abandon their their own so called process at

1142
01:08:40,520 --> 01:08:42,840
Speaker 1: the first Well, I don't even think it's really a

1143
01:08:42,920 --> 01:08:45,040
Speaker 1: process because they don't do it as a matter of process,

1144
01:08:45,120 --> 01:08:48,360
Speaker 1: and they just talk about it. Well. I think it's

1145
01:08:48,439 --> 01:08:50,719
Speaker 1: very clear that the first part of her answer is correct,

1146
01:08:51,240 --> 01:08:55,720
Speaker 1: and it's not as close as she suggests. Overwhelmingly journalists

1147
01:08:56,640 --> 01:08:59,360
Speaker 1: this isn't dispute it. There's no study that shows anything

1148
01:08:59,400 --> 01:09:03,759
Speaker 1: other than that. I think if there is a tendency

1149
01:09:03,800 --> 01:09:06,040
Speaker 1: of late to go after Democrats are failing to deliver,

1150
01:09:06,800 --> 01:09:09,639
Speaker 1: it's because they failed to deliver and they promised so much.

1151
01:09:10,479 --> 01:09:13,240
Speaker 1: In a sense, her statement there is a little silly.

1152
01:09:13,640 --> 01:09:16,240
Speaker 1: Of course, the press goes after Democrats are failing to

1153
01:09:16,320 --> 01:09:19,400
Speaker 1: deliver in a way that they don't go after Republicans

1154
01:09:19,439 --> 01:09:22,320
Speaker 1: are failing to deliver because Democrats promised that government will

1155
01:09:22,360 --> 01:09:25,680
Speaker 1: fixing and Republicans by and large seeing the government as

1156
01:09:25,720 --> 01:09:28,519
Speaker 1: a problem. Republicans tend to cut government. They tend to

1157
01:09:28,560 --> 01:09:31,600
Speaker 1: pair it back. Democrats tend to promise the world. So

1158
01:09:31,880 --> 01:09:34,000
Speaker 1: what is the press supposed to do in that scenario

1159
01:09:34,560 --> 01:09:37,479
Speaker 1: but to point out that the Democrats have not ushered

1160
01:09:37,479 --> 01:09:40,840
Speaker 1: in the promised land that they said they would. And

1161
01:09:41,000 --> 01:09:43,479
Speaker 1: I have to say, for for for me, I'm I'm

1162
01:09:43,520 --> 01:09:47,000
Speaker 1: always a little surprised, and I've had well a number

1163
01:09:47,080 --> 01:09:51,160
Speaker 1: of times in in private correspondence. I won't name the person,

1164
01:09:51,240 --> 01:09:56,800
Speaker 1: but a very prominent journalist on TV whom I sort

1165
01:09:56,800 --> 01:09:59,519
Speaker 1: of know in private life, and some at some level,

1166
01:10:00,320 --> 01:10:03,200
Speaker 1: UH will reach out to me in a in an

1167
01:10:03,280 --> 01:10:04,519
Speaker 1: off the cuff way and just be like, I mean,

1168
01:10:04,600 --> 01:10:06,800
Speaker 1: do you really believe this this stuff you say about

1169
01:10:06,880 --> 01:10:10,640
Speaker 1: how there's a media narrative and the mainstream media and

1170
01:10:10,920 --> 01:10:13,000
Speaker 1: and so he's a smart guy, And I always want

1171
01:10:13,000 --> 01:10:16,280
Speaker 1: to respond, yeah, dude, of course I do. You're talking

1172
01:10:16,280 --> 01:10:19,559
Speaker 1: about an industry were you think the same vote, the same,

1173
01:10:19,640 --> 01:10:22,040
Speaker 1: act the same You don't think that that creates a

1174
01:10:22,120 --> 01:10:25,639
Speaker 1: consensus opinion. I just can't. It's it's somebody who's smart,

1175
01:10:25,720 --> 01:10:28,360
Speaker 1: but so in cape and it's not just him. There's

1176
01:10:28,360 --> 01:10:31,160
Speaker 1: a lot of people like that. But they still at

1177
01:10:31,240 --> 01:10:32,800
Speaker 1: some of the major networks and some of the major

1178
01:10:32,840 --> 01:10:35,560
Speaker 1: newspapers cling to this notion that there really is no

1179
01:10:35,720 --> 01:10:39,080
Speaker 1: such thing as a mainstream media, that there's no overriding

1180
01:10:39,240 --> 01:10:42,680
Speaker 1: opinion that is democrat and left, that is what the

1181
01:10:42,760 --> 01:10:48,560
Speaker 1: media pushes. Well, how is that possible? I think it's extraordinary.

1182
01:10:48,560 --> 01:10:51,240
Speaker 1: But I also think that in asking you that question,

1183
01:10:51,439 --> 01:10:53,760
Speaker 1: he is in some way it demonstrated why we have

1184
01:10:53,880 --> 01:10:57,240
Speaker 1: the problem here. That we do, because his assumption is

1185
01:10:57,320 --> 01:10:59,880
Speaker 1: that you must be saying a game, or saying to

1186
01:11:00,040 --> 01:11:03,960
Speaker 1: the crowd, or making it up. In other words, he

1187
01:11:04,160 --> 01:11:08,519
Speaker 1: has never been talked through the arguments that disagree with

1188
01:11:08,640 --> 01:11:12,840
Speaker 1: his own. He has never internalized them, he's never come

1189
01:11:12,920 --> 01:11:17,320
Speaker 1: to respect them. I don't find myself as the conservative

1190
01:11:17,479 --> 01:11:21,000
Speaker 1: asking progressive do you really believe that? Are you just

1191
01:11:21,160 --> 01:11:23,880
Speaker 1: saying it is this entertainment to you? I know they

1192
01:11:23,960 --> 01:11:26,760
Speaker 1: believe it. I'm surrounded by them, and from England, I

1193
01:11:26,840 --> 01:11:30,240
Speaker 1: live in Connecticut, I work in New York City. I

1194
01:11:30,400 --> 01:11:33,560
Speaker 1: understand what my opponents think. I think they're wrong, but

1195
01:11:33,720 --> 01:11:35,880
Speaker 1: I know what it is that they believe. And I'm

1196
01:11:35,880 --> 01:11:38,160
Speaker 1: sure the person you're talking about is very nice. But

1197
01:11:38,280 --> 01:11:40,439
Speaker 1: the fact that he believes that it's some sort of

1198
01:11:40,479 --> 01:11:43,200
Speaker 1: performance art, the fact that he is asking you, do

1199
01:11:43,280 --> 01:11:46,280
Speaker 1: you really think that? Shows that he has never grappled

1200
01:11:47,160 --> 01:11:51,840
Speaker 1: with alternative opinions. And yet in the same breath he

1201
01:11:52,200 --> 01:11:57,520
Speaker 1: is skeptical towards the idea that there is a particular

1202
01:11:57,680 --> 01:12:01,040
Speaker 1: narrative within the press. I think that's one of the

1203
01:12:01,080 --> 01:12:04,240
Speaker 1: most instructive anecdotes I've ever heard. Yeah, I I have

1204
01:12:04,320 --> 01:12:06,519
Speaker 1: to tell it's happened more than once, and it's it's

1205
01:12:06,560 --> 01:12:08,439
Speaker 1: happened a few times with a particular individual, and I

1206
01:12:08,520 --> 01:12:11,160
Speaker 1: just find it my response, I want to actually respond

1207
01:12:11,200 --> 01:12:13,800
Speaker 1: in all caps. You know, yeah, bro, I do. I

1208
01:12:13,840 --> 01:12:16,439
Speaker 1: actually do think that this is a real thing. And

1209
01:12:16,600 --> 01:12:19,280
Speaker 1: I can't believe you don't, considering where you work and

1210
01:12:19,479 --> 01:12:21,240
Speaker 1: who you're interact with on a day to day basis.

1211
01:12:21,479 --> 01:12:23,080
Speaker 1: But I think that that and this is what what

1212
01:12:23,240 --> 01:12:25,200
Speaker 1: made me think of it originally. It brings me to

1213
01:12:25,280 --> 01:12:29,600
Speaker 1: the concept that now journalism, more than ever in my lifetime,

1214
01:12:29,720 --> 01:12:32,920
Speaker 1: I can't speak about it beforehand. Uh feels like it

1215
01:12:33,040 --> 01:12:35,479
Speaker 1: has gone to And this ties into a bunch of

1216
01:12:35,479 --> 01:12:38,240
Speaker 1: what we talked about her Charles. Uh. It is an

1217
01:12:38,280 --> 01:12:42,479
Speaker 1: open propaganda war where the ends do justify the means,

1218
01:12:42,720 --> 01:12:45,960
Speaker 1: and that takes us through why hatred towards Shawn Spicer

1219
01:12:46,080 --> 01:12:48,880
Speaker 1: is warranted even uh, you know, hatred of him and

1220
01:12:49,080 --> 01:12:51,479
Speaker 1: or sorry, hatred of his comments and hyperbole over them

1221
01:12:51,479 --> 01:12:54,280
Speaker 1: are warranted because of personal hatred for him. I think

1222
01:12:54,360 --> 01:12:57,759
Speaker 1: that's now true across the board when we're talking about

1223
01:12:57,840 --> 01:13:00,719
Speaker 1: American domestic politics in the way the media he's dealing

1224
01:13:00,760 --> 01:13:02,439
Speaker 1: with it. I shouldn't it not everybody, but I mean

1225
01:13:02,479 --> 01:13:07,280
Speaker 1: this is widespread. Now. Yes, I think many members of

1226
01:13:07,320 --> 01:13:11,280
Speaker 1: the media and asked themselves as being part of the resistance. Right,

1227
01:13:11,360 --> 01:13:13,080
Speaker 1: it's in the open, in the way in a way

1228
01:13:13,160 --> 01:13:15,040
Speaker 1: that it wasn't even really during Bush and Bush they

1229
01:13:15,080 --> 01:13:17,280
Speaker 1: were still playing the big j journalism game. They're really

1230
01:13:17,320 --> 01:13:19,360
Speaker 1: not playing it anymore, or they if they do, it's

1231
01:13:19,960 --> 01:13:24,240
Speaker 1: it's obvious and disingenuous. Sure, I think it's fine if

1232
01:13:24,280 --> 01:13:26,639
Speaker 1: you're the nation or the New Republic to have an agenda.

1233
01:13:26,640 --> 01:13:29,680
Speaker 1: Their opinion journals. National Review is an opinion journal. Of

1234
01:13:29,800 --> 01:13:31,759
Speaker 1: course we're by it's of course we have an agenda.

1235
01:13:31,840 --> 01:13:35,439
Speaker 1: Of course we have an opinion. That is why we exist.

1236
01:13:36,240 --> 01:13:39,559
Speaker 1: But you and I are talking here about the press,

1237
01:13:40,479 --> 01:13:45,519
Speaker 1: not opinion journals, not literary journals. The press. And it's

1238
01:13:45,560 --> 01:13:51,760
Speaker 1: one thing to see the obvious twisting going on from

1239
01:13:51,840 --> 01:13:55,640
Speaker 1: somebody who is open about their biases. It's another thing

1240
01:13:56,160 --> 01:13:59,200
Speaker 1: to see it from people who would recoil in horror

1241
01:13:59,240 --> 01:14:02,320
Speaker 1: if you suggested they were anything other than impartial. Well,

1242
01:14:02,400 --> 01:14:06,080
Speaker 1: here's a news flash. You cannot be impartial and tweet

1243
01:14:06,320 --> 01:14:10,160
Speaker 1: the resistance. You cannot see yourself as the last defense

1244
01:14:10,840 --> 01:14:16,000
Speaker 1: against Republicans and expect to be taken seriously by those

1245
01:14:16,080 --> 01:14:18,040
Speaker 1: who are on the fence. And I think if the

1246
01:14:18,120 --> 01:14:23,679
Speaker 1: Trump administration does anything, it should remind viewers and those

1247
01:14:24,120 --> 01:14:27,519
Speaker 1: who are talking to them of that fact. Charles Cook

1248
01:14:27,640 --> 01:14:30,080
Speaker 1: is editor for National View Online and author of the

1249
01:14:30,160 --> 01:14:33,439
Speaker 1: Conservatory Manifesto Our friend, Charles, Thank you sir. Great to

1250
01:14:33,479 --> 01:14:39,120
Speaker 1: have you. No, thank you for having me. We'll speak

1251
01:14:39,240 --> 01:14:44,880
Speaker 1: more team about everything that's been going on in Afghanistan tomorrow.

1252
01:14:46,080 --> 01:14:50,920
Speaker 1: WHOA what was that? Did we just? Yeah? Sorry, I

1253
01:14:51,040 --> 01:14:53,160
Speaker 1: heard something I thought did not go over the heir

1254
01:14:53,240 --> 01:14:55,599
Speaker 1: though it's just a little little sound effect. I was like, wait,

1255
01:14:55,680 --> 01:15:00,960
Speaker 1: what anyway, Um, we'll talk about Afghanistan tomorrow in some

1256
01:15:01,240 --> 01:15:04,360
Speaker 1: in some detail. Uh. And I'll have a plan to

1257
01:15:04,400 --> 01:15:08,080
Speaker 1: have an excellent guests join on that because we have

1258
01:15:08,280 --> 01:15:12,759
Speaker 1: the mother of the Spicer here. We got Spicer describing

1259
01:15:12,800 --> 01:15:18,280
Speaker 1: the mother of ball bombs that was dropped today around

1260
01:15:18,360 --> 01:15:22,519
Speaker 1: seven pm local time in Afghanistan. Last night, the United

1261
01:15:22,560 --> 01:15:27,800
Speaker 1: States military used a GBU forty three weapon in Afghanistan. UH.

1262
01:15:27,920 --> 01:15:31,040
Speaker 1: The GBU forty three is a large, powerful, and accurately

1263
01:15:31,120 --> 01:15:34,759
Speaker 1: delivered weapon. We targeted a system of tunnels and caves.

1264
01:15:35,280 --> 01:15:39,439
Speaker 1: That isis fighters used to move around freely, making it

1265
01:15:39,560 --> 01:15:43,000
Speaker 1: easier for them to target US military advisors and Afghan

1266
01:15:43,120 --> 01:15:46,160
Speaker 1: forces in the area. The United States takes the fight

1267
01:15:46,240 --> 01:15:49,439
Speaker 1: against ISIS very seriously, and in order to defeat the group,

1268
01:15:49,520 --> 01:15:53,240
Speaker 1: we must deny them operational space, which we did. The

1269
01:15:53,360 --> 01:15:57,520
Speaker 1: United States took all precautions necessary to prevent civilian casualties

1270
01:15:57,920 --> 01:16:01,840
Speaker 1: and collateral damage as a result of the opera ration. UM.

1271
01:16:02,640 --> 01:16:06,920
Speaker 1: It was it seems a successful successful deployment of this

1272
01:16:07,720 --> 01:16:13,200
Speaker 1: very large bomb, but that's not really all that significant

1273
01:16:13,240 --> 01:16:16,040
Speaker 1: in terms of what's going on on the ground in Afghanistan.

1274
01:16:17,080 --> 01:16:20,360
Speaker 1: We'll give you updates on that tomorrow. This is another place.

1275
01:16:20,520 --> 01:16:23,479
Speaker 1: You know, you'll notice a theme here, whether it's North Korea,

1276
01:16:24,080 --> 01:16:29,240
Speaker 1: or Syria or Afghanistan. UH, the deterioration in the security

1277
01:16:29,320 --> 01:16:33,040
Speaker 1: situation in hot spots, in conflict zones and war zones,

1278
01:16:33,320 --> 01:16:39,200
Speaker 1: and places where we have very real concerns about US interests,

1279
01:16:39,280 --> 01:16:44,080
Speaker 1: the interests of our allies, and of course the possibility

1280
01:16:44,160 --> 01:16:48,479
Speaker 1: that we have um losses that we might be taking

1281
01:16:48,720 --> 01:16:51,680
Speaker 1: from our own armed our own armed forces as a

1282
01:16:51,760 --> 01:16:56,639
Speaker 1: result of enemy fire. UH. Those places did not get

1283
01:16:57,400 --> 01:17:03,280
Speaker 1: the do attention and strategic oversight from the Obama administration.

1284
01:17:03,320 --> 01:17:07,240
Speaker 1: They just didn't. I mean, Afghanistan is arguably right now

1285
01:17:07,840 --> 01:17:11,080
Speaker 1: in one of the worst positions it's been in, if

1286
01:17:11,120 --> 01:17:13,880
Speaker 1: not the worst, since our invasion two thousand one, in

1287
01:17:14,000 --> 01:17:17,040
Speaker 1: terms of Taliban control. You haven't seen a lot of

1288
01:17:17,479 --> 01:17:20,280
Speaker 1: newspapers talking about that. Well now they will, of course,

1289
01:17:20,280 --> 01:17:22,360
Speaker 1: because Obama is not president anymore. So there'll be a

1290
01:17:22,880 --> 01:17:26,840
Speaker 1: renewed focus on the problems that we have in Afghanistan.

1291
01:17:26,960 --> 01:17:30,040
Speaker 1: But well, we'll do a deeper dive on that tomorrow. UM,

1292
01:17:30,240 --> 01:17:33,519
Speaker 1: so we'll get to what I promise, Um eight four

1293
01:17:33,640 --> 01:17:37,400
Speaker 1: four eight to five, eight four four nine, Buck on

1294
01:17:37,479 --> 01:17:41,559
Speaker 1: those phone lines, be back in a few He's an

1295
01:17:41,800 --> 01:17:45,920
Speaker 1: x CIA officer who knows how to outsmart the enemies

1296
01:17:45,960 --> 01:17:50,839
Speaker 1: of liberty. But I do have very particular set of skills,

1297
01:17:51,800 --> 01:17:56,080
Speaker 1: Buck Sexton with America Now team, your mission, should you

1298
01:17:56,200 --> 01:17:59,400
Speaker 1: choose to accept it, called the Freedom Hunt Operations Center.

1299
01:17:59,640 --> 01:18:04,880
Speaker 1: Eight nine hundred Buck, big contact unless you're under hostile

1300
01:18:04,920 --> 01:18:11,360
Speaker 1: surveillance D to eight to five. All right, everybody, we're back,

1301
01:18:11,479 --> 01:18:14,160
Speaker 1: and we are joined by Rich Lowry. He is the

1302
01:18:14,479 --> 01:18:18,200
Speaker 1: editor of National Review, a syndicated columnist, and a commentator

1303
01:18:18,280 --> 01:18:20,559
Speaker 1: for Fox News. Rich, great to have you back. Thanks

1304
01:18:20,560 --> 01:18:24,280
Speaker 1: for having me Uh, let's start with the Kansas special election.

1305
01:18:24,680 --> 01:18:27,320
Speaker 1: Is this much ado about nothing? I mean the Republican one.

1306
01:18:27,439 --> 01:18:29,760
Speaker 1: It was kind of close, But people are making it

1307
01:18:29,880 --> 01:18:32,400
Speaker 1: sound like this is a huge harbinger of things to come.

1308
01:18:32,479 --> 01:18:34,800
Speaker 1: What say you, Well, I wouldn't say it's armageddon. It

1309
01:18:34,840 --> 01:18:39,280
Speaker 1: would have been armageddon if the Republican ron ESTs had lost.

1310
01:18:39,720 --> 01:18:42,360
Speaker 1: But he only won by about seven or eight points

1311
01:18:42,520 --> 01:18:44,719
Speaker 1: in a district I think Trump won by about twenty

1312
01:18:44,800 --> 01:18:48,720
Speaker 1: seven or something like that. So it's clear, you know,

1313
01:18:48,840 --> 01:18:52,599
Speaker 1: the political headwinds are running against Republicans, especially in Kansas,

1314
01:18:52,680 --> 01:18:57,080
Speaker 1: where the governor Sam brown Back is epically unpopular. So

1315
01:18:57,240 --> 01:18:59,240
Speaker 1: that makes it a little unclear how much we want

1316
01:18:59,280 --> 01:19:04,000
Speaker 1: to extrapolate from Kansas to other elections. But we'll know

1317
01:19:04,160 --> 01:19:07,719
Speaker 1: more after this Georgia special election that's coming up, another

1318
01:19:08,200 --> 01:19:11,400
Speaker 1: red seat, not quite as red as Kansas, and if

1319
01:19:11,479 --> 01:19:14,439
Speaker 1: Hopkins lost that one, it would definitely be a firebell

1320
01:19:14,520 --> 01:19:16,840
Speaker 1: in the night. Um, why is brown Back doing so

1321
01:19:16,920 --> 01:19:19,679
Speaker 1: badly in Kansas? By the way, you know, he had

1322
01:19:19,920 --> 01:19:23,920
Speaker 1: a tax cut that just people hate and hasn't worked

1323
01:19:23,960 --> 01:19:27,559
Speaker 1: out as advertised and has my understanding, has meant kind

1324
01:19:27,600 --> 01:19:31,960
Speaker 1: of a budget shortfall every single year that's been painful. Um,

1325
01:19:32,640 --> 01:19:34,880
Speaker 1: so he's I think he's I've seen polls with him

1326
01:19:34,920 --> 01:19:37,280
Speaker 1: in the teens, I believe, and it's been the next

1327
01:19:37,320 --> 01:19:39,400
Speaker 1: one In the next special election we're seeing in Georgia

1328
01:19:39,520 --> 01:19:42,880
Speaker 1: is that the there's a young Democrat contender who's raised

1329
01:19:42,880 --> 01:19:45,240
Speaker 1: a bunch of money, right, yeah, he's raised about I

1330
01:19:45,280 --> 01:19:50,200
Speaker 1: think eight point five million. That's just the fundraising is

1331
01:19:50,320 --> 01:19:52,680
Speaker 1: just off the charts. I mean, the best job in

1332
01:19:52,840 --> 01:19:55,120
Speaker 1: the universe at the moment is to be a Democratic

1333
01:19:55,200 --> 01:19:58,160
Speaker 1: fundraiser because it's just people are throwing money at them.

1334
01:19:58,560 --> 01:20:01,960
Speaker 1: It's a Republican district, a price district. There's there's a

1335
01:20:02,000 --> 01:20:04,519
Speaker 1: so called jungle primary, so I don't know that. There's

1336
01:20:04,640 --> 01:20:08,479
Speaker 1: something like a dozen Republicans and one Democrat. And the

1337
01:20:08,560 --> 01:20:10,080
Speaker 1: thought is he needs to get to fifty in that

1338
01:20:10,160 --> 01:20:12,639
Speaker 1: jungle primary. If he does, he wins, and that would

1339
01:20:12,680 --> 01:20:15,040
Speaker 1: be a stunner. If he doesn't get the fifty, well

1340
01:20:15,080 --> 01:20:18,280
Speaker 1: then he's going a runoff with a Republican and probably loses.

1341
01:20:18,720 --> 01:20:21,960
Speaker 1: But there is that possibility that this this is like

1342
01:20:22,000 --> 01:20:24,280
Speaker 1: the Democrats are just throwing long bombs into the end

1343
01:20:24,360 --> 01:20:26,559
Speaker 1: zone and see what happens. But it doesn't really matter.

1344
01:20:26,720 --> 01:20:29,120
Speaker 1: If they get a catch, great, If they don't know

1345
01:20:29,120 --> 01:20:31,120
Speaker 1: a big deal because they're going after Republicans on their

1346
01:20:31,120 --> 01:20:34,360
Speaker 1: home turf exactly, and they're looking for the Scott Brown

1347
01:20:34,479 --> 01:20:38,200
Speaker 1: type election. They won't have something that was consequential. Scott Brown,

1348
01:20:38,360 --> 01:20:42,599
Speaker 1: he potentially he almost brought a bomb acare to a hall.

1349
01:20:42,880 --> 01:20:45,720
Speaker 1: So nothing, no one election is going to do that.

1350
01:20:45,880 --> 01:20:48,080
Speaker 1: Special election is going to do that to the Trump agenda.

1351
01:20:48,120 --> 01:20:50,360
Speaker 1: Although maybe ground to hall in anyway in Congress, but

1352
01:20:50,439 --> 01:20:53,280
Speaker 1: that's another story. But they're just looking for a sign

1353
01:20:53,800 --> 01:20:56,080
Speaker 1: that a wave could be coming, because they need a

1354
01:20:56,120 --> 01:20:59,360
Speaker 1: pretty big one to hope to take back the House. Now,

1355
01:20:59,400 --> 01:21:02,280
Speaker 1: what do you make of the Kushner and bann In

1356
01:21:02,439 --> 01:21:05,760
Speaker 1: conflict earlier in the week CNN and I was asked

1357
01:21:05,800 --> 01:21:08,200
Speaker 1: about this on CNN the week before that. I was like, I,

1358
01:21:08,320 --> 01:21:10,760
Speaker 1: I I don't find this to be as as fascinating

1359
01:21:10,800 --> 01:21:13,960
Speaker 1: as some others do, or rather as as important. It's interesting,

1360
01:21:14,040 --> 01:21:16,200
Speaker 1: but I don't find it to be as consequential. But

1361
01:21:16,280 --> 01:21:18,120
Speaker 1: some people tell me it's huge for the direction of

1362
01:21:18,680 --> 01:21:21,280
Speaker 1: this White House. So so I want to pose that

1363
01:21:21,439 --> 01:21:24,280
Speaker 1: to you. What do you think of the Kushner versus

1364
01:21:24,400 --> 01:21:27,400
Speaker 1: Banning throw down such as it's being reported. I think

1365
01:21:27,439 --> 01:21:31,559
Speaker 1: it is pretty consequential, and more consequential than this kind

1366
01:21:31,640 --> 01:21:33,600
Speaker 1: of intrigue that you see in any White House, and

1367
01:21:33,680 --> 01:21:36,960
Speaker 1: political junkie has always become obsessed with these internal battles,

1368
01:21:37,200 --> 01:21:39,439
Speaker 1: but I think it matters more this time because Trump

1369
01:21:39,560 --> 01:21:43,720
Speaker 1: himself is so unformed, is so susceptible to advice and

1370
01:21:43,800 --> 01:21:47,360
Speaker 1: the last thing he's heard from anyone. So if Jared

1371
01:21:47,439 --> 01:21:52,400
Speaker 1: and Avanka and Gary Cohene really become totally ascendant, it

1372
01:21:52,520 --> 01:21:55,240
Speaker 1: will affect policy. And we may already be seen that

1373
01:21:55,479 --> 01:21:58,760
Speaker 1: this week with Trump, you know, backing off on UM,

1374
01:21:59,360 --> 01:22:04,320
Speaker 1: labeling China currency manipulator, backing off on his opposition to

1375
01:22:04,400 --> 01:22:09,479
Speaker 1: the x M Bank, and generally sounding more quote unquote moderate.

1376
01:22:10,040 --> 01:22:14,480
Speaker 1: That seems to be Jared and Gary Cohn's UM influence

1377
01:22:15,040 --> 01:22:19,320
Speaker 1: even now, and if Bannon is exiled entirely, their influence

1378
01:22:19,320 --> 01:22:21,720
Speaker 1: would only grow. Do you think that might happen? I've

1379
01:22:21,880 --> 01:22:24,040
Speaker 1: started to see some I didn't think that was in

1380
01:22:24,120 --> 01:22:28,280
Speaker 1: the cards really until that lasts. I saw a few

1381
01:22:28,360 --> 01:22:31,800
Speaker 1: things things the President has said, and some indicators. I'm like, oh,

1382
01:22:32,000 --> 01:22:35,559
Speaker 1: maybe Betton's gonna go back to running a website after all. Yeah,

1383
01:22:35,920 --> 01:22:39,200
Speaker 1: people who are more plugged in than I am wouldn't

1384
01:22:39,240 --> 01:22:41,880
Speaker 1: be shocked. But it happens this weekend doesn't mean it's

1385
01:22:41,880 --> 01:22:43,880
Speaker 1: going to happen this weekend. Maybe he keeps his head

1386
01:22:43,920 --> 01:22:47,680
Speaker 1: down and he stays, but he's definitely diminished. And then

1387
01:22:47,840 --> 01:22:50,280
Speaker 1: just the things Trump has said about him over the

1388
01:22:50,360 --> 01:22:53,680
Speaker 1: last couple of days are just they're they're consistent with

1389
01:22:53,840 --> 01:22:56,920
Speaker 1: the firing when when Trump shows up tells in the

1390
01:22:56,960 --> 01:22:59,720
Speaker 1: air post, I haven't heard of this guy. Basically, you know,

1391
01:22:59,880 --> 01:23:03,439
Speaker 1: he work for me very briefly in the campaign and

1392
01:23:03,600 --> 01:23:05,880
Speaker 1: said in Wall Streets you're on interview, he's a guy

1393
01:23:06,000 --> 01:23:08,200
Speaker 1: who works for me. You know. Can you imagine George W.

1394
01:23:08,360 --> 01:23:12,040
Speaker 1: Bush ever talking about Karl Rove in that way? You know,

1395
01:23:12,160 --> 01:23:16,479
Speaker 1: Bush called Karl Rove of the architect and um, Bannon

1396
01:23:16,600 --> 01:23:18,280
Speaker 1: is just a guy that happened happens to have an

1397
01:23:18,320 --> 01:23:20,360
Speaker 1: office in the White House if you believe President Trump,

1398
01:23:21,040 --> 01:23:24,040
Speaker 1: And what do you think about that? If Bannon goes

1399
01:23:24,760 --> 01:23:27,200
Speaker 1: what do you make of the direction of this White House?

1400
01:23:27,280 --> 01:23:29,840
Speaker 1: You think it's better? I'm assuming, well, I don't want

1401
01:23:29,880 --> 01:23:31,360
Speaker 1: to put any words in your mouth or or any

1402
01:23:31,400 --> 01:23:33,639
Speaker 1: thoughts out there, and uh, we're trying to there yours

1403
01:23:33,760 --> 01:23:36,200
Speaker 1: Rich but you can tell us what are your thoughts

1404
01:23:36,280 --> 01:23:38,360
Speaker 1: on Bannon and what does the bandon was White House mean.

1405
01:23:38,960 --> 01:23:41,360
Speaker 1: I'd be worried if he goes now. I'm not a

1406
01:23:41,439 --> 01:23:45,000
Speaker 1: huge Bannon fan. I don't like the protectionism. I don't

1407
01:23:45,040 --> 01:23:48,840
Speaker 1: like the kind of needless and endless confrontation. Yes, they're

1408
01:23:48,840 --> 01:23:51,080
Speaker 1: times to have fights and throwdowns, but if you're doing

1409
01:23:51,160 --> 01:23:53,559
Speaker 1: it all the time, you're just sewing chaos and hurting yourself.

1410
01:23:53,600 --> 01:23:55,880
Speaker 1: And I think we've seen too much of that out

1411
01:23:55,920 --> 01:23:57,960
Speaker 1: of the gate here from the Trump White House. But

1412
01:23:58,720 --> 01:24:01,840
Speaker 1: you know, he's a popular slash conservative, and I think

1413
01:24:01,920 --> 01:24:06,240
Speaker 1: he helps keep Trump grounded somewhere in that conservative populace

1414
01:24:06,760 --> 01:24:10,320
Speaker 1: spectrum where their their differences definitely, but there's about a

1415
01:24:10,360 --> 01:24:14,479
Speaker 1: seventy or agreement. And what I would worry is not

1416
01:24:14,880 --> 01:24:18,599
Speaker 1: that Jared and and Cone, you know, pulled Trump back

1417
01:24:18,640 --> 01:24:21,360
Speaker 1: on trade, which I'd kind of welcome, but that it

1418
01:24:21,439 --> 01:24:23,840
Speaker 1: goes further than that and they begin to get embarrassed,

1419
01:24:24,320 --> 01:24:27,920
Speaker 1: you know, by his immigration restrictionism. They don't want to

1420
01:24:27,960 --> 01:24:32,040
Speaker 1: have a fight over planned parenthood in any funding bill,

1421
01:24:32,240 --> 01:24:34,760
Speaker 1: and kind of the things that would be embarrassing at

1422
01:24:34,760 --> 01:24:37,559
Speaker 1: a dinner party with Anna Winter where Jared and Ivanka,

1423
01:24:37,880 --> 01:24:40,559
Speaker 1: you know, are typically very comfortable that those things will

1424
01:24:40,560 --> 01:24:44,600
Speaker 1: begin to get softened or pulled back, and that that's

1425
01:24:44,640 --> 01:24:47,400
Speaker 1: my worry. And I think again talking to people who

1426
01:24:47,439 --> 01:24:49,680
Speaker 1: are more plugged in with this White House than I am,

1427
01:24:50,160 --> 01:24:52,439
Speaker 1: it's it does seem to be a legitimate worry. And

1428
01:24:52,560 --> 01:24:54,640
Speaker 1: I see you have a piece your National Review or

1429
01:24:54,680 --> 01:24:58,680
Speaker 1: you're the editor. Uh, concern the concerns the president is

1430
01:24:58,720 --> 01:25:03,280
Speaker 1: up for grabs. What do you mean, Well, he's he's unformed.

1431
01:25:03,600 --> 01:25:06,400
Speaker 1: You know, look at trade. That's the one thing that

1432
01:25:06,479 --> 01:25:10,360
Speaker 1: he's been most consistent on for thirty years and we

1433
01:25:10,400 --> 01:25:11,560
Speaker 1: don't even know that this is going to be a

1434
01:25:11,600 --> 01:25:14,200
Speaker 1: protectionist administration and it seems like it probably isn't going

1435
01:25:14,280 --> 01:25:17,400
Speaker 1: to be again on that specific policy. I welcome that shift,

1436
01:25:18,080 --> 01:25:22,000
Speaker 1: but it means really he could be shift on almost anything.

1437
01:25:22,280 --> 01:25:25,000
Speaker 1: And the big ANCHI alta here is what if there's

1438
01:25:25,000 --> 01:25:29,200
Speaker 1: another Supreme Court opening and it's from the left of

1439
01:25:29,240 --> 01:25:32,280
Speaker 1: the court, and you get, you know, cultural jihad from

1440
01:25:32,320 --> 01:25:34,880
Speaker 1: the left that makes what they did against Gorset, you know,

1441
01:25:34,960 --> 01:25:37,360
Speaker 1: looks like child's pet play, you know, based on the

1442
01:25:37,439 --> 01:25:39,360
Speaker 1: idea that this time Roe v. Wade could really be

1443
01:25:39,479 --> 01:25:43,439
Speaker 1: in jeopardy, and you have Jared and Ivanka and their

1444
01:25:43,520 --> 01:25:47,080
Speaker 1: allies having a much bigger say on what Trump does

1445
01:25:47,439 --> 01:25:50,240
Speaker 1: than they ever have before in the in the political world.

1446
01:25:50,560 --> 01:25:53,559
Speaker 1: Do they throw down and say, Okay, we're gonna we're

1447
01:25:53,560 --> 01:25:56,120
Speaker 1: gonna fight this to the death to put a constitutionalist

1448
01:25:56,160 --> 01:25:58,160
Speaker 1: in there who probably will vote against Roe vue Wade.

1449
01:25:58,680 --> 01:26:01,679
Speaker 1: I'm not so sure so that that's that's my worry.

1450
01:26:02,000 --> 01:26:04,720
Speaker 1: It's speculative. At the moment. We don't know how much

1451
01:26:04,760 --> 01:26:07,120
Speaker 1: Bannon has been diminished. We don't know whether he's going

1452
01:26:07,160 --> 01:26:09,240
Speaker 1: to go. Even if he does, we don't know of

1453
01:26:09,360 --> 01:26:12,240
Speaker 1: the spear I have will actually be realized. But again,

1454
01:26:12,280 --> 01:26:15,880
Speaker 1: I think it's a legitimate worry. Rich Lowry, editor of

1455
01:26:16,000 --> 01:26:19,280
Speaker 1: National Reviews, syndicated columas Fox News commentator. Guys, go check

1456
01:26:19,280 --> 01:26:22,240
Speaker 1: out National review dot com for all the latest there. Rich,

1457
01:26:22,320 --> 01:26:24,320
Speaker 1: great to have you, Thanks for making the time. Thanks

1458
01:26:24,320 --> 01:26:28,400
Speaker 1: so much. Alright, teammate four four nine to eight to five.

1459
01:26:28,680 --> 01:26:31,840
Speaker 1: What do you all think of the Bannon Kushner feud?

1460
01:26:32,439 --> 01:26:34,680
Speaker 1: Do any of you think that it would be a

1461
01:26:34,760 --> 01:26:38,439
Speaker 1: bad thing if Bannon was no longer party administration? Very

1462
01:26:38,520 --> 01:26:40,559
Speaker 1: curious to know what your thoughts are on that. If

1463
01:26:41,200 --> 01:26:43,679
Speaker 1: it moves you to pick up that phone and dial

1464
01:26:43,800 --> 01:26:46,040
Speaker 1: so please let me know. We'll hit a break, We'll

1465
01:26:46,040 --> 01:26:54,280
Speaker 1: be right back. So I'm very pleased to tell you all, Uh,

1466
01:26:54,800 --> 01:26:57,120
Speaker 1: Team buck, I'm very pleased to get a chance to

1467
01:26:58,080 --> 01:27:04,320
Speaker 1: announce that bucks Exton dot Com is up and running.

1468
01:27:05,000 --> 01:27:08,280
Speaker 1: It's a relaunch of sorts I had had. I had

1469
01:27:08,320 --> 01:27:10,519
Speaker 1: the U r L. I yeah, that's what you call it, right.

1470
01:27:10,800 --> 01:27:13,200
Speaker 1: I had had the website for a while and didn't

1471
01:27:13,240 --> 01:27:15,680
Speaker 1: really do that much with it because I was an

1472
01:27:15,720 --> 01:27:22,240
Speaker 1: employee of the Blaze. Um so I had a website

1473
01:27:22,240 --> 01:27:24,400
Speaker 1: that I had I was working for at the time,

1474
01:27:24,800 --> 01:27:26,840
Speaker 1: but I just I owned my U r L. And

1475
01:27:27,160 --> 01:27:31,160
Speaker 1: uh now, um, we are going to be writing there.

1476
01:27:31,240 --> 01:27:34,880
Speaker 1: We're going to have the show posted there. I will

1477
01:27:35,200 --> 01:27:37,680
Speaker 1: we I'll be writing there, will be posting stories from

1478
01:27:37,760 --> 01:27:40,040
Speaker 1: the show. So buck Sexton dot Com is now the

1479
01:27:40,760 --> 01:27:44,960
Speaker 1: digital online home of the Freedom Hunt. We gotta get

1480
01:27:45,000 --> 01:27:48,320
Speaker 1: some cool Freedom Hunt stuff up there. It's it's going

1481
01:27:48,400 --> 01:27:52,639
Speaker 1: to be evolving as we go forward. And I'm even

1482
01:27:52,720 --> 01:27:55,680
Speaker 1: hoping that we'll have gear up on the website, so

1483
01:27:55,880 --> 01:28:00,280
Speaker 1: that will be uh freedom hut t shirts, Team buck

1484
01:28:00,360 --> 01:28:02,920
Speaker 1: t shirts, all sorts of fun stuff um. And that

1485
01:28:03,040 --> 01:28:06,360
Speaker 1: will all be added in the future, but for right now,

1486
01:28:06,920 --> 01:28:08,760
Speaker 1: I have a short post stuff on some of my

1487
01:28:08,840 --> 01:28:11,840
Speaker 1: thoughts from today, and I'll be adding more. I'll be

1488
01:28:11,960 --> 01:28:14,160
Speaker 1: writing there and it'll be a place where we can

1489
01:28:14,640 --> 01:28:17,120
Speaker 1: I'll check in. You'll be able to write gore comments

1490
01:28:17,160 --> 01:28:19,479
Speaker 1: on what I'm thinking about. We'll be posting stories that

1491
01:28:19,520 --> 01:28:22,600
Speaker 1: we're talking about on the show. And also if you

1492
01:28:22,880 --> 01:28:25,839
Speaker 1: if you would like, please do give me your your email.

1493
01:28:26,160 --> 01:28:28,680
Speaker 1: Um please, there's no way to ask that. Would that

1494
01:28:28,800 --> 01:28:32,880
Speaker 1: be like, Hey, would you like to give me your email? UM? Now,

1495
01:28:33,040 --> 01:28:35,840
Speaker 1: I'm planning to create I'm not sure how often we'll

1496
01:28:35,880 --> 01:28:39,200
Speaker 1: do it yet. This is all in progress as the

1497
01:28:39,280 --> 01:28:42,439
Speaker 1: show continues to grow and we build out the team

1498
01:28:42,520 --> 01:28:46,360
Speaker 1: and work on some of our our fun projects. But

1499
01:28:46,479 --> 01:28:48,000
Speaker 1: we're hoping to get a newsletter. I don't know if

1500
01:28:48,000 --> 01:28:50,960
Speaker 1: it will be will probably be weekly. I'm hoping, UM,

1501
01:28:51,120 --> 01:28:52,960
Speaker 1: that's what we would use your email for, to send

1502
01:28:53,000 --> 01:28:56,720
Speaker 1: you best moments from the week, news analysis, maybe have

1503
01:28:56,800 --> 01:28:59,080
Speaker 1: some guest columnists, will be joining in on the fun,

1504
01:29:00,240 --> 01:29:03,920
Speaker 1: all sorts of things. You know. I've I've had a

1505
01:29:04,040 --> 01:29:06,960
Speaker 1: fair amount of people in the last few years who

1506
01:29:07,000 --> 01:29:10,240
Speaker 1: have come to me and wanted to know, you know,

1507
01:29:10,320 --> 01:29:12,920
Speaker 1: how would I how would I get my start in

1508
01:29:13,160 --> 01:29:17,320
Speaker 1: the in the media business, news commentary. I think that's

1509
01:29:18,160 --> 01:29:20,320
Speaker 1: probably the best description of what I do in news commentary.

1510
01:29:21,160 --> 01:29:23,400
Speaker 1: And and then I tell them my backstory. I give

1511
01:29:23,479 --> 01:29:25,439
Speaker 1: them a shortened version because I wanta beally like the

1512
01:29:25,520 --> 01:29:27,880
Speaker 1: guy that said, WHOA and I when I was your age,

1513
01:29:27,920 --> 01:29:30,360
Speaker 1: And I give them some long drawn out and I

1514
01:29:30,520 --> 01:29:33,960
Speaker 1: was walking to school and two ft of snow barefoot,

1515
01:29:34,080 --> 01:29:37,679
Speaker 1: you know all that stuff. Um. But I I fell

1516
01:29:37,720 --> 01:29:40,920
Speaker 1: into the media business. It didn't really didn't really strike

1517
01:29:41,000 --> 01:29:42,719
Speaker 1: me as what I would do as as a career.

1518
01:29:43,560 --> 01:29:46,240
Speaker 1: Um uh C I A. And then I was thinking

1519
01:29:46,320 --> 01:29:49,439
Speaker 1: probably Wall Street or Corporate America in some capacity because

1520
01:29:49,880 --> 01:29:52,320
Speaker 1: be fun to I thought it would be fun to

1521
01:29:52,360 --> 01:29:54,320
Speaker 1: make some money. And I got hired to go work

1522
01:29:54,400 --> 01:29:56,840
Speaker 1: for The Blaze right when it was getting started. The

1523
01:29:57,000 --> 01:30:02,040
Speaker 1: Blaze is the website that was found did by Glenn Beck.

1524
01:30:02,640 --> 01:30:07,360
Speaker 1: And Glenn, to his credit and to with with much

1525
01:30:07,400 --> 01:30:10,519
Speaker 1: appreciation for me, hired me just figured I'd be good

1526
01:30:10,520 --> 01:30:13,320
Speaker 1: at this media thing. They offered me a job. I

1527
01:30:14,160 --> 01:30:16,000
Speaker 1: he was the second person from the company that I

1528
01:30:16,120 --> 01:30:18,960
Speaker 1: met with and and hired me. But I was originally

1529
01:30:19,040 --> 01:30:21,280
Speaker 1: hired and this brings me back to buck sexton dot com.

1530
01:30:21,400 --> 01:30:24,120
Speaker 1: That's right, everybody, buck sexton dot com. You can go

1531
01:30:24,280 --> 01:30:27,200
Speaker 1: check it out. We will be posting you'll be able

1532
01:30:27,200 --> 01:30:29,880
Speaker 1: to listen live there um to the show, so if

1533
01:30:29,880 --> 01:30:32,599
Speaker 1: you're ever wondering what's away, uh, and we'll we will

1534
01:30:32,640 --> 01:30:37,240
Speaker 1: be posting clips as well, so or podcasts, so you

1535
01:30:37,240 --> 01:30:40,240
Speaker 1: can download them on at one stop shop. But if

1536
01:30:40,320 --> 01:30:42,000
Speaker 1: this stuff is all free, of course, but I'm saying

1537
01:30:42,040 --> 01:30:44,800
Speaker 1: one stop, one stop free shopping at buck sexton dot com.

1538
01:30:45,200 --> 01:30:48,160
Speaker 1: And you can also give me your email. But I

1539
01:30:48,320 --> 01:30:51,960
Speaker 1: was initially hired as a as a website writer, which

1540
01:30:52,000 --> 01:30:56,320
Speaker 1: I thought was a very useful experience as a young person.

1541
01:30:57,280 --> 01:30:58,760
Speaker 1: I was that a young person. I yeah, I have

1542
01:30:58,800 --> 01:31:01,960
Speaker 1: a young person and I was twenty eight I think

1543
01:31:02,000 --> 01:31:06,320
Speaker 1: at the time, maybe twenty nine. Uh, getting your started media,

1544
01:31:06,840 --> 01:31:10,559
Speaker 1: there's websites a really good place to to get your

1545
01:31:10,720 --> 01:31:14,080
Speaker 1: get your feet wet in this business because you immediately

1546
01:31:14,200 --> 01:31:16,679
Speaker 1: get thrown in the world of everything is metrics based.

1547
01:31:17,600 --> 01:31:19,920
Speaker 1: Some of these people you see on TV that are

1548
01:31:20,120 --> 01:31:24,800
Speaker 1: well known TV journalists, Uh, they've had to navigate well,

1549
01:31:24,840 --> 01:31:27,160
Speaker 1: it depends some of them have just TV is one

1550
01:31:27,160 --> 01:31:30,080
Speaker 1: of the few places where I've seen people just get

1551
01:31:30,160 --> 01:31:32,560
Speaker 1: kind of waved on through and put up on the

1552
01:31:32,640 --> 01:31:35,080
Speaker 1: perch and you're like, wait a second, what that that's

1553
01:31:35,120 --> 01:31:36,960
Speaker 1: just the way this is gonna be. And Yep, that's

1554
01:31:36,960 --> 01:31:40,560
Speaker 1: the way it's gonna be in a media landscape that

1555
01:31:40,840 --> 01:31:45,599
Speaker 1: is uh mercurial and a better way maybe to put

1556
01:31:45,640 --> 01:31:48,639
Speaker 1: it is just unfair in general. Some of the best

1557
01:31:48,680 --> 01:31:50,679
Speaker 1: advice I ever got in media from a long time

1558
01:31:51,360 --> 01:31:55,680
Speaker 1: TV news anchor, sort of local news anchor, uh and,

1559
01:31:55,920 --> 01:31:58,840
Speaker 1: and he said, if you think this business is fair,

1560
01:31:58,920 --> 01:32:01,040
Speaker 1: you're always going to be frost trat. Don't everythink, don't

1561
01:32:01,040 --> 01:32:03,320
Speaker 1: ever think that it's fair. Just do what you do,

1562
01:32:03,479 --> 01:32:07,759
Speaker 1: do the best you can, and serve your audience. You know, whoever,

1563
01:32:07,840 --> 01:32:12,280
Speaker 1: whever your audience is, you give your you always treat

1564
01:32:12,360 --> 01:32:14,840
Speaker 1: their time as precious. I will say that that is

1565
01:32:14,880 --> 01:32:17,240
Speaker 1: my mandate here every day on the show. That's why

1566
01:32:17,280 --> 01:32:21,920
Speaker 1: I spend a huge portion of my day preparing for

1567
01:32:22,040 --> 01:32:23,960
Speaker 1: these hours I get with you on radio, because I

1568
01:32:24,680 --> 01:32:26,439
Speaker 1: view your first of all, I view this as a

1569
01:32:26,560 --> 01:32:29,920
Speaker 1: as a special bond, and I view myself as in

1570
01:32:30,000 --> 01:32:31,800
Speaker 1: a place of trust that I get to spend time

1571
01:32:31,880 --> 01:32:36,360
Speaker 1: with you. But also I know that your time is precious,

1572
01:32:36,520 --> 01:32:39,840
Speaker 1: and the fact that you honor me by joining me

1573
01:32:39,960 --> 01:32:43,240
Speaker 1: here on the show means that I, even when I

1574
01:32:43,360 --> 01:32:47,720
Speaker 1: am tired or sick or just grumpy or feel like

1575
01:32:47,840 --> 01:32:53,320
Speaker 1: this business is just a just a disaster, which the

1576
01:32:53,400 --> 01:32:56,559
Speaker 1: media business in general can feel like that sometimes Radio

1577
01:32:56,680 --> 01:32:58,599
Speaker 1: I love, but I mean once you start throwing TV

1578
01:32:58,920 --> 01:33:02,720
Speaker 1: and writing into it and the odds, it's a mess. Um.

1579
01:33:02,960 --> 01:33:04,960
Speaker 1: But I view your time as precious, and so that

1580
01:33:05,280 --> 01:33:08,080
Speaker 1: motivates me every day when I go to get ready

1581
01:33:08,160 --> 01:33:10,720
Speaker 1: for this show, which takes a vast majority of my day,

1582
01:33:10,800 --> 01:33:14,519
Speaker 1: reading in making sure that UM straight on all the facts,

1583
01:33:14,560 --> 01:33:17,280
Speaker 1: and then I can make the best uses of the

1584
01:33:17,360 --> 01:33:20,720
Speaker 1: time we have together. But on the website side, which

1585
01:33:20,800 --> 01:33:22,360
Speaker 1: is how it was initially higher and even though I've

1586
01:33:22,360 --> 01:33:24,559
Speaker 1: mostly done radio and TV in the last few years,

1587
01:33:25,320 --> 01:33:27,960
Speaker 1: you have to immediately get drawn into the metrics, and

1588
01:33:28,160 --> 01:33:30,560
Speaker 1: so you're looking at the numbers and the data and

1589
01:33:31,920 --> 01:33:35,920
Speaker 1: the website game is fascinating. UM. The way that different

1590
01:33:36,040 --> 01:33:42,000
Speaker 1: sites have managed to build little empires for themselves off

1591
01:33:42,120 --> 01:33:47,120
Speaker 1: of really borrowing dare I even say, stealing content from

1592
01:33:47,160 --> 01:33:52,560
Speaker 1: other places, repackaging content, building out their content based on

1593
01:33:53,920 --> 01:33:59,400
Speaker 1: what is optimized for search engines Search engine optimization SEO.

1594
01:34:00,520 --> 01:34:03,240
Speaker 1: It's just completely changing the game. I mean, the Washington Post,

1595
01:34:03,280 --> 01:34:05,920
Speaker 1: New York Times, some of the big newspapers that have

1596
01:34:06,360 --> 01:34:10,200
Speaker 1: very substantial digital subscribers. They'll be around for a long

1597
01:34:10,280 --> 01:34:14,080
Speaker 1: time because they have obviously a tremendous institutional and although

1598
01:34:14,120 --> 01:34:16,240
Speaker 1: the Times did to almost go bankrupt a few years

1599
01:34:16,240 --> 01:34:17,680
Speaker 1: ago and the Washington Post had to be built up

1600
01:34:17,720 --> 01:34:22,400
Speaker 1: by or bought not so built up by Jeff Bezos. Um,

1601
01:34:22,720 --> 01:34:25,120
Speaker 1: but they'll be around for a while because their legacy

1602
01:34:25,160 --> 01:34:28,439
Speaker 1: business is huge institutional advantage. There is some brand value

1603
01:34:28,600 --> 01:34:30,880
Speaker 1: for just the fact that we know what those papers

1604
01:34:30,920 --> 01:34:33,560
Speaker 1: are and they have they spend a lot of resources

1605
01:34:33,680 --> 01:34:37,320
Speaker 1: on what it is that they do. But the website

1606
01:34:37,400 --> 01:34:40,639
Speaker 1: battles are I'm talking about the news space. UM. It's

1607
01:34:41,160 --> 01:34:44,360
Speaker 1: really interesting to watch it all play out. And I

1608
01:34:45,000 --> 01:34:47,280
Speaker 1: you know that there are huge websites that really did

1609
01:34:47,320 --> 01:34:50,320
Speaker 1: build businesses based on you know, cat videos and listicles,

1610
01:34:50,360 --> 01:34:52,840
Speaker 1: which is a series of uh an internet list of

1611
01:34:52,920 --> 01:34:56,200
Speaker 1: something you know, five five ways to know that you know,

1612
01:34:56,400 --> 01:34:58,519
Speaker 1: The Walking Dead is the show for you or whatever,

1613
01:34:58,600 --> 01:35:01,320
Speaker 1: you know, stuff like that, um, and then they build

1614
01:35:01,400 --> 01:35:04,439
Speaker 1: a big following on that, and they try to gain

1615
01:35:04,520 --> 01:35:08,040
Speaker 1: social media platforms and from there it's just it just

1616
01:35:08,360 --> 01:35:12,880
Speaker 1: continues to be a big effort at making sure everyone

1617
01:35:12,920 --> 01:35:15,280
Speaker 1: knows the name of whatever it is that whatever, and

1618
01:35:15,439 --> 01:35:17,479
Speaker 1: I should start naming. So I'm speaking. I know you're like,

1619
01:35:17,760 --> 01:35:21,439
Speaker 1: you're being very vague about all this. Um, if you

1620
01:35:21,520 --> 01:35:23,760
Speaker 1: look at what some of these brands are, you know,

1621
01:35:23,840 --> 01:35:25,240
Speaker 1: what do they really stand for? What does some of

1622
01:35:25,280 --> 01:35:28,200
Speaker 1: these websites that Huffington Post and Buzzfeeds some of the

1623
01:35:28,280 --> 01:35:32,120
Speaker 1: biggest ones, what is it that they stand for. That's

1624
01:35:32,120 --> 01:35:34,840
Speaker 1: a fascinating question. I've I've had that discussion with people

1625
01:35:34,840 --> 01:35:36,519
Speaker 1: who have worked for some of these places, and they

1626
01:35:36,560 --> 01:35:39,799
Speaker 1: don't have very good answers either. It's just chasing traffic numbers.

1627
01:35:39,880 --> 01:35:43,000
Speaker 1: What gets traffic, That's what we go with. Uh And

1628
01:35:43,240 --> 01:35:47,759
Speaker 1: in the era of the news websites, is it okay

1629
01:35:47,920 --> 01:35:49,960
Speaker 1: to just do anything for traffic? You know, come for

1630
01:35:50,040 --> 01:35:52,560
Speaker 1: the cat videos, stay for the political analysis. Does that

1631
01:35:52,760 --> 01:35:55,880
Speaker 1: work as a business model maybe in the short term.

1632
01:35:55,920 --> 01:35:58,920
Speaker 1: I don't know if in the long term that's quite

1633
01:35:58,960 --> 01:36:01,560
Speaker 1: as effective or sustainable as some of the people in

1634
01:36:01,600 --> 01:36:03,720
Speaker 1: this business imagine. But yeah, I was hired as a

1635
01:36:03,760 --> 01:36:06,800
Speaker 1: website writer It was quite an experience, very different to

1636
01:36:06,880 --> 01:36:09,960
Speaker 1: go from the secret world of the CIA to the

1637
01:36:10,040 --> 01:36:14,360
Speaker 1: most open out their world imaginable of writing for websites

1638
01:36:14,400 --> 01:36:16,639
Speaker 1: where anybody who has, you know, internet access, can read

1639
01:36:16,720 --> 01:36:18,720
Speaker 1: everything that you're posting and see everything that you're doing.

1640
01:36:19,520 --> 01:36:21,320
Speaker 1: Um And from there I moved on to one day,

1641
01:36:21,360 --> 01:36:23,679
Speaker 1: I one day we'll all gather around the fireplace together

1642
01:36:23,680 --> 01:36:25,439
Speaker 1: and I'll tell you some of the early radio stories.

1643
01:36:25,880 --> 01:36:27,200
Speaker 1: Tell you about the first time I filled in for

1644
01:36:27,240 --> 01:36:29,200
Speaker 1: Russi Lumball and I had to get a steroid shot

1645
01:36:29,280 --> 01:36:31,439
Speaker 1: to open up my throat because I was so sick

1646
01:36:32,120 --> 01:36:33,639
Speaker 1: and I wasn't gonna be able to do the show

1647
01:36:33,720 --> 01:36:35,439
Speaker 1: at all. I've got some fun I've got some fun

1648
01:36:35,520 --> 01:36:38,639
Speaker 1: media stories that we'll talk about another time. But buck

1649
01:36:38,680 --> 01:36:40,760
Speaker 1: sexton dot com, which is what got me on this

1650
01:36:40,880 --> 01:36:44,160
Speaker 1: little there's many story time session here. Buck sexton dot

1651
01:36:44,200 --> 01:36:47,000
Speaker 1: com is live, uh please do go check it out.

1652
01:36:47,200 --> 01:36:49,559
Speaker 1: We'll be posting stories that we talk about every day

1653
01:36:49,600 --> 01:36:51,639
Speaker 1: here on the show. In advance of the show, I'll

1654
01:36:51,680 --> 01:36:55,960
Speaker 1: be writing for the site, giving you um my best insights,

1655
01:36:56,040 --> 01:36:58,880
Speaker 1: written insights on news of the day and everything else

1656
01:36:58,920 --> 01:37:00,920
Speaker 1: we've got going on here in Freedom Hunt and eventually

1657
01:37:00,920 --> 01:37:02,559
Speaker 1: we're hoping to be selling some T shirts and other

1658
01:37:02,600 --> 01:37:05,240
Speaker 1: stuff there too. So it's gonna be a fun place

1659
01:37:05,360 --> 01:37:07,439
Speaker 1: and you can connect with fellow members of Team Buck.

1660
01:37:08,280 --> 01:37:10,519
Speaker 1: It's gonna be like for the Freedom Hunt. It's going

1661
01:37:10,560 --> 01:37:12,439
Speaker 1: to be an island, what do we say, an island

1662
01:37:12,479 --> 01:37:14,879
Speaker 1: of liberty where you can hang out with your fellow patriots.

1663
01:37:15,400 --> 01:37:18,000
Speaker 1: Box acting dot com is the site. We're gonna talk

1664
01:37:18,120 --> 01:37:22,800
Speaker 1: about microaggressions in a minute, my friends, what are those? Oh? Oh,

1665
01:37:22,880 --> 01:37:27,040
Speaker 1: I'll tell you be right back. Welcome back to the

1666
01:37:27,200 --> 01:37:30,240
Speaker 1: Freedom Hut on an island of liberty where you're the

1667
01:37:30,360 --> 01:37:34,400
Speaker 1: party and it's full of fellow patriots. Buck Sexton kicks

1668
01:37:34,439 --> 01:37:47,000
Speaker 1: it off. What's up, Team? Where are you from? Where

1669
01:37:47,080 --> 01:37:51,360
Speaker 1: were you born? You speak English very well. When I

1670
01:37:51,439 --> 01:37:54,280
Speaker 1: look at you, I don't see color. These are all

1671
01:37:54,439 --> 01:37:58,679
Speaker 1: statements that could get you in trouble. They're all broadly

1672
01:37:58,760 --> 01:38:03,559
Speaker 1: defined as microaggressions will depending on the context, of course.

1673
01:38:03,600 --> 01:38:06,120
Speaker 1: Some of you are like, what is a microaggression? Well,

1674
01:38:06,439 --> 01:38:11,920
Speaker 1: microaggression is a an incident, action, or statement, according to Google,

1675
01:38:12,040 --> 01:38:16,320
Speaker 1: here regarded as an instance of indirect, subtle, or unintentional

1676
01:38:16,439 --> 01:38:20,280
Speaker 1: discrimination against members of a marginalized group such as a

1677
01:38:20,439 --> 01:38:25,479
Speaker 1: racial or ethnic minority. Is a microaggression a real thing.

1678
01:38:25,840 --> 01:38:29,920
Speaker 1: People say that it causes mental anguish and therefore should

1679
01:38:29,960 --> 01:38:33,160
Speaker 1: be banned on college campuses as well as many other places.

1680
01:38:33,760 --> 01:38:35,880
Speaker 1: To address this for us, we've got somebody who's done

1681
01:38:36,040 --> 01:38:40,240
Speaker 1: real academic research into microaggressions. Were joined by Professor Scott

1682
01:38:40,320 --> 01:38:44,280
Speaker 1: Lillian Feld is a clinical psychologist and professor of psychology

1683
01:38:44,640 --> 01:38:49,599
Speaker 1: at Emory University in Atlanta. His papers Microaggressions Strong Claims

1684
01:38:49,800 --> 01:38:53,360
Speaker 1: Inadequate Evidence. Professor, thanks for joining. It's it's my pleasure.

1685
01:38:53,360 --> 01:38:56,920
Speaker 1: Good to be here. Okay, so you're a clinical psychologist,

1686
01:38:56,960 --> 01:38:59,880
Speaker 1: you also teach at Emery, You're on campus a lot.

1687
01:39:00,200 --> 01:39:04,720
Speaker 1: Microaggressions have become quite a topic of conversation. How does

1688
01:39:04,760 --> 01:39:07,479
Speaker 1: it come up in the in the campus context? So

1689
01:39:07,800 --> 01:39:10,360
Speaker 1: you know it's come up occasionally on our campus as well.

1690
01:39:10,840 --> 01:39:14,960
Speaker 1: I think there's been obviously a lot of racial tension

1691
01:39:15,040 --> 01:39:18,000
Speaker 1: over the the last couple of years, and uh, it's

1692
01:39:18,080 --> 01:39:21,479
Speaker 1: understandable that universities and businesses want to address that tension.

1693
01:39:22,160 --> 01:39:24,280
Speaker 1: And I think where it has come up on our

1694
01:39:24,360 --> 01:39:26,800
Speaker 1: campus and some others has been in the context of

1695
01:39:26,880 --> 01:39:30,920
Speaker 1: trying to train faculty and perhaps other students to recognize

1696
01:39:31,040 --> 01:39:34,080
Speaker 1: instances of what appeared to be subtle, indirect forms of

1697
01:39:34,120 --> 01:39:37,280
Speaker 1: prejudice against others. And I think what is in most

1698
01:39:37,320 --> 01:39:40,240
Speaker 1: cases of a well meaning attempt to try to tamp

1699
01:39:40,360 --> 01:39:44,880
Speaker 1: down racial tensions. I'm not sure that it's necessarily going

1700
01:39:44,960 --> 01:39:47,880
Speaker 1: to be a successful one, however, And microaggressions that would

1701
01:39:47,880 --> 01:39:52,280
Speaker 1: be not not the incident incidences where people say something

1702
01:39:52,360 --> 01:39:56,639
Speaker 1: that is obviously meant to be hurtful or derogatory or demeaning.

1703
01:39:56,960 --> 01:39:58,880
Speaker 1: In fact, some of the micro aggressions that I see

1704
01:39:58,920 --> 01:40:03,120
Speaker 1: listed include everyday speech and conduct that a lot of

1705
01:40:03,200 --> 01:40:05,759
Speaker 1: us are used to as a form of being polite

1706
01:40:05,920 --> 01:40:08,960
Speaker 1: or trying to ingratiate oneself with somebody. So microaggressions go

1707
01:40:09,040 --> 01:40:13,000
Speaker 1: beyond just don't be discriminatory into you may be discriminating

1708
01:40:13,080 --> 01:40:15,000
Speaker 1: in the eyes of some people, even if you don't

1709
01:40:15,160 --> 01:40:18,519
Speaker 1: intend to. And that's that's right, and that's exactly the concern.

1710
01:40:18,960 --> 01:40:20,720
Speaker 1: It depends when you talk to There are some lists

1711
01:40:20,720 --> 01:40:24,000
Speaker 1: of microaggressions that also include some of the more blatant

1712
01:40:24,040 --> 01:40:26,720
Speaker 1: things like racial epithets. But that would just be an aggression, though,

1713
01:40:26,720 --> 01:40:29,360
Speaker 1: wouldn't it. That's right, that's would that would just be aggressions.

1714
01:40:29,600 --> 01:40:32,120
Speaker 1: That's right, that's a macro doubt that some people are

1715
01:40:32,160 --> 01:40:34,960
Speaker 1: are prejudiced and bigger than say, say things like that,

1716
01:40:35,080 --> 01:40:36,880
Speaker 1: which we call no one no one's good, no one's

1717
01:40:36,920 --> 01:40:40,080
Speaker 1: cool with that. We don't like that. But on onto microaggressions.

1718
01:40:40,280 --> 01:40:43,040
Speaker 1: And you're a psychologist, I'm assuming you looked into this

1719
01:40:43,080 --> 01:40:46,960
Speaker 1: from an academic perspective as to whether it causes well,

1720
01:40:47,200 --> 01:40:49,560
Speaker 1: you tell me, well, what did you look at for microaggression?

1721
01:40:49,680 --> 01:40:53,360
Speaker 1: Strong claims, inadequate evidence, So a couple of things, a

1722
01:40:53,439 --> 01:40:56,720
Speaker 1: couple of main sort of bottom line conclusions. First is

1723
01:40:56,840 --> 01:41:00,680
Speaker 1: that the problem is that the microaggression subtle that may

1724
01:41:00,680 --> 01:41:02,360
Speaker 1: have a kernel of truth and it there's no doubt

1725
01:41:02,400 --> 01:41:04,960
Speaker 1: that that there are subtle forms of prejudice. There's no

1726
01:41:05,040 --> 01:41:08,720
Speaker 1: doubt that people will at times say inadvertent things that

1727
01:41:08,840 --> 01:41:12,280
Speaker 1: offend other people because either their culturally oblivious or maybe

1728
01:41:12,280 --> 01:41:16,840
Speaker 1: they just step on um people's toes inadvertently without intending to.

1729
01:41:17,000 --> 01:41:20,920
Speaker 1: We all do that from time to time. The problem, though,

1730
01:41:21,000 --> 01:41:24,360
Speaker 1: is that the microaggression concept as it is currently conceptualized,

1731
01:41:24,600 --> 01:41:28,840
Speaker 1: both academically and on campuses and in businesses, is so

1732
01:41:29,200 --> 01:41:32,640
Speaker 1: broad and so diffused that it conclude almost anything. The

1733
01:41:32,720 --> 01:41:35,479
Speaker 1: core problem is that the concept right now is that

1734
01:41:36,080 --> 01:41:39,000
Speaker 1: it's entirely subjective. It's it's in the mind of the

1735
01:41:39,439 --> 01:41:42,840
Speaker 1: in the eyes of the observer. So if someone deems

1736
01:41:42,880 --> 01:41:46,000
Speaker 1: themselves to be offended by what someone else has has

1737
01:41:46,080 --> 01:41:50,000
Speaker 1: said or done, according to many researchers, that is automatically

1738
01:41:50,120 --> 01:41:53,120
Speaker 1: by itself a microaggression. And that's a key concept and

1739
01:41:53,200 --> 01:41:56,120
Speaker 1: a key problem however, with a micro aggression view, because

1740
01:41:56,200 --> 01:41:59,639
Speaker 1: after all, anyone can be in principle offended by almost

1741
01:42:00,080 --> 01:42:02,760
Speaker 1: anything someone says. So the concept itself may have a

1742
01:42:02,800 --> 01:42:05,200
Speaker 1: corp truth in it, but it's becomes so the an

1743
01:42:05,240 --> 01:42:08,040
Speaker 1: elastic that it's really limpd itself in my view, to

1744
01:42:08,400 --> 01:42:12,080
Speaker 1: potential abuse. And that means that it's entirely as a

1745
01:42:12,240 --> 01:42:14,519
Speaker 1: matter of definition then, or at least as a matter

1746
01:42:14,600 --> 01:42:18,000
Speaker 1: of how it is defined in practice, it is entirely subjective.

1747
01:42:18,400 --> 01:42:20,800
Speaker 1: So what what what if nine people in a room

1748
01:42:21,280 --> 01:42:25,400
Speaker 1: think that my saying, oh, where were you born? Is

1749
01:42:25,520 --> 01:42:27,959
Speaker 1: fine in the context of this person is clearly not American.

1750
01:42:28,080 --> 01:42:30,400
Speaker 1: If one person, even if it's not the person I'm asking,

1751
01:42:30,520 --> 01:42:33,960
Speaker 1: finds that offensive, I could be guilty of a microaggression. Yeah,

1752
01:42:34,080 --> 01:42:36,960
Speaker 1: that's right, I think another in principle, I think that's correct.

1753
01:42:37,200 --> 01:42:40,160
Speaker 1: I think another key problem is that the term itself

1754
01:42:40,320 --> 01:42:43,840
Speaker 1: and the baggage associated with that term, is highly problematic.

1755
01:42:44,520 --> 01:42:49,080
Speaker 1: The psychologists referred to things that are aggressive as intentional

1756
01:42:49,200 --> 01:42:51,760
Speaker 1: on the part of the people who are delivering or

1757
01:42:51,800 --> 01:42:55,800
Speaker 1: emitting those actions, but in fact, most microaggressions, probably and

1758
01:42:55,880 --> 01:42:59,600
Speaker 1: even proponents of the concept acknowledge this, are probably inadvertent.

1759
01:43:00,000 --> 01:43:02,439
Speaker 1: Out of them are probably inadvertent racial or cultural slights.

1760
01:43:03,000 --> 01:43:07,240
Speaker 1: And I worry very much that deeming them aggressive is

1761
01:43:07,280 --> 01:43:10,120
Speaker 1: not merely a misnormal, it's not merely inaccurate, but it

1762
01:43:10,200 --> 01:43:13,840
Speaker 1: may actually fuel racial tensions because it's not, in my view,

1763
01:43:13,880 --> 01:43:17,440
Speaker 1: a very conducive way to engage someone in a conversation.

1764
01:43:17,520 --> 01:43:20,679
Speaker 1: By accusing them of being aggressive, well, it automatically creates

1765
01:43:20,680 --> 01:43:24,640
Speaker 1: an atmosphere of paranoia about speech and conduct that is

1766
01:43:24,680 --> 01:43:27,080
Speaker 1: not intended to be offensive. And that if it's not

1767
01:43:27,200 --> 01:43:30,479
Speaker 1: even based on as we just discussed a minute ago,

1768
01:43:30,600 --> 01:43:34,360
Speaker 1: it's not based on societal norms or what would be

1769
01:43:34,400 --> 01:43:37,080
Speaker 1: considered I mean legally, I guess you could say reasonable

1770
01:43:37,120 --> 01:43:41,640
Speaker 1: man standard or just some form of objectivity. Then you

1771
01:43:41,720 --> 01:43:43,799
Speaker 1: could always run a foul of this and that creates

1772
01:43:43,920 --> 01:43:46,040
Speaker 1: its own anxiety for people, and I would agree with you,

1773
01:43:46,080 --> 01:43:49,439
Speaker 1: I think that does create resentment among all parties involved. Well,

1774
01:43:49,680 --> 01:43:51,360
Speaker 1: I think I'm glad to raise that, and I think

1775
01:43:51,360 --> 01:43:54,559
Speaker 1: because I think it cuts both ways, I worry very much,

1776
01:43:54,640 --> 01:43:57,439
Speaker 1: although here we don't have research on it. Yeah, but

1777
01:43:57,560 --> 01:44:00,439
Speaker 1: I worry very much. That may make everyone feel defensive.

1778
01:44:00,479 --> 01:44:04,639
Speaker 1: It may make um marginalized groups feel defensive because they're

1779
01:44:04,680 --> 01:44:06,719
Speaker 1: going to be vigilant and on the lookout for potential

1780
01:44:06,840 --> 01:44:12,040
Speaker 1: slights and and potentially discriminatory statements or actions. And it

1781
01:44:12,120 --> 01:44:16,160
Speaker 1: may make people on campuses and universities from majority groups

1782
01:44:16,240 --> 01:44:18,400
Speaker 1: feel defensive and vigilant because they may have to feel

1783
01:44:18,439 --> 01:44:20,559
Speaker 1: that they have to watch what they what they're saying.

1784
01:44:21,240 --> 01:44:23,360
Speaker 1: Another point I would raise here is that there are

1785
01:44:23,360 --> 01:44:26,920
Speaker 1: a lot of very strong claims that microaggressions are linked

1786
01:44:27,280 --> 01:44:31,640
Speaker 1: to diminished our adverse mental health on the part of individuals.

1787
01:44:31,680 --> 01:44:33,800
Speaker 1: We don't know that it's possible, and it could very

1788
01:44:33,840 --> 01:44:37,280
Speaker 1: well be that being repeatedly exposed to subtle prejudice could

1789
01:44:37,360 --> 01:44:40,040
Speaker 1: indeed produce a risk for mental illness. That wouldn't be

1790
01:44:40,080 --> 01:44:43,120
Speaker 1: surprised if that's the case. But the assumption here is

1791
01:44:43,200 --> 01:44:49,040
Speaker 1: that microaggressions themselves are automatically linked to adverse mental health

1792
01:44:49,080 --> 01:44:51,320
Speaker 1: health outcomes. We don't yet know whether that's the case.

1793
01:44:51,439 --> 01:44:53,880
Speaker 1: That's very premature to make those comes. So there hasn't

1794
01:44:53,880 --> 01:44:56,960
Speaker 1: been much evidence compiled as to whether microaggressions from a

1795
01:44:57,000 --> 01:45:01,960
Speaker 1: clinical psychology standpoint cause actual mental anguish or mental harm.

1796
01:45:02,760 --> 01:45:05,280
Speaker 1: As we say in psychology, there's a difference between correlation

1797
01:45:05,320 --> 01:45:07,360
Speaker 1: and causation. Not to get too wonky about it, but

1798
01:45:07,439 --> 01:45:10,720
Speaker 1: we do know that the same people who report experiencing

1799
01:45:10,800 --> 01:45:13,879
Speaker 1: a lot of microaggressions also report a lot of distress,

1800
01:45:14,160 --> 01:45:17,320
Speaker 1: and that is well documented. It's not clear whether there's

1801
01:45:17,320 --> 01:45:19,639
Speaker 1: a direct cause of relationship. It could be that certain

1802
01:45:19,720 --> 01:45:23,120
Speaker 1: people tend to be more distress sensitive overall. It's not

1803
01:45:23,200 --> 01:45:26,719
Speaker 1: to diminished their their perceptions there is It also possible,

1804
01:45:26,800 --> 01:45:30,679
Speaker 1: though doct that somebody could be over sensitive and therefore

1805
01:45:31,240 --> 01:45:34,719
Speaker 1: upset or offended all the time or not all the time.

1806
01:45:34,840 --> 01:45:38,040
Speaker 1: But beyond what would be considered normal and reasonable, there

1807
01:45:38,080 --> 01:45:40,559
Speaker 1: are individual differences differences among all of us in how

1808
01:45:40,800 --> 01:45:43,760
Speaker 1: sensitive people are to things in general, and it is

1809
01:45:43,800 --> 01:45:46,920
Speaker 1: true that some some of us are more sensitive to

1810
01:45:47,600 --> 01:45:51,000
Speaker 1: to both perceive slights and others and oftentimes those are

1811
01:45:51,000 --> 01:45:54,360
Speaker 1: the same people who do experience distress. I doubt that

1812
01:45:54,640 --> 01:45:58,879
Speaker 1: accounts for all of the relationship between supposed microaggressions and distress.

1813
01:45:59,000 --> 01:46:01,960
Speaker 1: All that may account for some of it. And what

1814
01:46:02,080 --> 01:46:04,280
Speaker 1: do you want or what would you like if you

1815
01:46:04,360 --> 01:46:07,400
Speaker 1: are holding a campus workshop on this issue and you're

1816
01:46:07,439 --> 01:46:12,120
Speaker 1: trying to give people constructe your constructive advice or your

1817
01:46:12,160 --> 01:46:15,720
Speaker 1: your constructive professional opinion on on how not to get

1818
01:46:16,240 --> 01:46:22,400
Speaker 1: mired in an atmosphere of constant microaggression, paranoia and counter paranoia,

1819
01:46:22,479 --> 01:46:24,120
Speaker 1: what would you do? What would you say? It's a

1820
01:46:24,200 --> 01:46:26,960
Speaker 1: great question, and I thought about it. I think my

1821
01:46:27,160 --> 01:46:29,840
Speaker 1: my thirty second answer is the following is that I

1822
01:46:29,920 --> 01:46:32,920
Speaker 1: think it's important to emphasize that we all have our biases,

1823
01:46:33,439 --> 01:46:37,000
Speaker 1: myself included. We all sometimes say and do things that

1824
01:46:37,120 --> 01:46:40,640
Speaker 1: inadvertently offend other people without meaning to do that. And

1825
01:46:41,000 --> 01:46:43,160
Speaker 1: I think that if if what we call I don't

1826
01:46:43,200 --> 01:46:44,920
Speaker 1: think the term is a good one, but if if

1827
01:46:44,960 --> 01:46:48,400
Speaker 1: the concept of microaggressions is used as an opening cell

1828
01:46:48,479 --> 01:46:51,559
Speaker 1: though and opening starting point in the conversation, they can

1829
01:46:51,600 --> 01:46:53,720
Speaker 1: be helpful. If people were to say, look, you know

1830
01:46:53,840 --> 01:46:56,040
Speaker 1: what you said offended me. You probably didn't mean this

1831
01:46:56,479 --> 01:46:59,160
Speaker 1: let's talk about it. I come from this, UM, I

1832
01:46:59,240 --> 01:47:01,920
Speaker 1: have a different culture will standpoint than you have. UM.

1833
01:47:02,680 --> 01:47:05,080
Speaker 1: I'm not necessarily saying you meant that, let's talk about

1834
01:47:05,120 --> 01:47:07,559
Speaker 1: this and have a conversation. I think it may actually

1835
01:47:07,600 --> 01:47:10,639
Speaker 1: be constructive because it may help people to better realize

1836
01:47:10,680 --> 01:47:14,240
Speaker 1: where each UH group is coming from and understand that

1837
01:47:14,280 --> 01:47:17,839
Speaker 1: people have different perceptions. The problem with the microaggression concept

1838
01:47:17,960 --> 01:47:20,320
Speaker 1: is it's not the beginning of a conversation. It's the

1839
01:47:20,520 --> 01:47:23,680
Speaker 1: endpoint of a conversation. So often that the temptation is

1840
01:47:23,760 --> 01:47:27,280
Speaker 1: to say, you said this, this offended me. Stop doing this.

1841
01:47:27,520 --> 01:47:29,439
Speaker 1: You were wrong, And I don't think that's going to

1842
01:47:29,479 --> 01:47:33,360
Speaker 1: be conducive to the conversation. We need more conversation about

1843
01:47:33,439 --> 01:47:36,479
Speaker 1: cultural understandings and this understandings, not less. Yeah, it does

1844
01:47:36,520 --> 01:47:39,360
Speaker 1: seem like it is far too broad a tool to

1845
01:47:39,439 --> 01:47:41,880
Speaker 1: be used by the speech police or those who would

1846
01:47:41,920 --> 01:47:43,800
Speaker 1: like to shut down discussion. But we'll leave it there

1847
01:47:43,840 --> 01:47:48,280
Speaker 1: for now. Professor Scott Lilianfeld, he's professor of psychology at

1848
01:47:48,320 --> 01:47:50,920
Speaker 1: Emory University. Professor, thank you very much for good at

1849
01:47:50,960 --> 01:47:55,160
Speaker 1: your time. We appreciate it. It was my pleasure, you know,

1850
01:47:55,280 --> 01:47:58,960
Speaker 1: on the topic of microaggressions, what to share a couple

1851
01:47:59,040 --> 01:48:02,240
Speaker 1: more thoughts on that with you. I remember reading as

1852
01:48:02,600 --> 01:48:09,200
Speaker 1: a a story by a a socialist, an academic and

1853
01:48:09,240 --> 01:48:13,000
Speaker 1: a socialist that I uh follow. Some of the work

1854
01:48:13,520 --> 01:48:16,800
Speaker 1: of some socialists are very interesting to read, um, and

1855
01:48:17,080 --> 01:48:21,360
Speaker 1: some of them are actually willing to call out the

1856
01:48:21,680 --> 01:48:24,800
Speaker 1: insanity that progressivism has become. Um. You know, these are

1857
01:48:24,840 --> 01:48:29,760
Speaker 1: democrats socialists, not like hardline Marxist revolutionary types. But he

1858
01:48:29,880 --> 01:48:33,760
Speaker 1: described an incident where he was present for a meeting

1859
01:48:33,800 --> 01:48:38,439
Speaker 1: I think it was for a graduate at a graduate school,

1860
01:48:38,520 --> 01:48:41,160
Speaker 1: where there was some social justice warriors all gathered together

1861
01:48:41,600 --> 01:48:45,479
Speaker 1: to talk about some form of on campus activism, and

1862
01:48:45,560 --> 01:48:50,639
Speaker 1: there was a h an individual who was Latino as

1863
01:48:50,720 --> 01:48:55,920
Speaker 1: he was. He was a Latino and a veteran, and

1864
01:48:56,160 --> 01:49:01,360
Speaker 1: was giving some relatively rousing speech about I don't know

1865
01:49:01,479 --> 01:49:03,720
Speaker 1: U s foreign policy or something doesn't really matter. But

1866
01:49:03,840 --> 01:49:08,040
Speaker 1: at some point said man up, over the course of

1867
01:49:08,200 --> 01:49:12,760
Speaker 1: this of the course of this discussion, and that was

1868
01:49:13,320 --> 01:49:15,960
Speaker 1: no longer. It was no longer okay. Now he got

1869
01:49:16,040 --> 01:49:19,439
Speaker 1: all these dirty looks from people in the room, and

1870
01:49:20,680 --> 01:49:22,599
Speaker 1: it took a moment for to sink in that by

1871
01:49:22,680 --> 01:49:25,360
Speaker 1: saying man up, he had undermined all of his social

1872
01:49:25,479 --> 01:49:30,839
Speaker 1: justice social justice credibility, even though he was a minority

1873
01:49:30,960 --> 01:49:34,240
Speaker 1: and and and a veteran UM. They didn't care. He

1874
01:49:34,280 --> 01:49:36,760
Speaker 1: didn't and he was speaking about US intervention abroad, if

1875
01:49:36,800 --> 01:49:39,960
Speaker 1: I recall. But the rules are changing all the time.

1876
01:49:40,080 --> 01:49:47,080
Speaker 1: It's really just about power. Victimization is oftentimes a means

1877
01:49:47,320 --> 01:49:51,960
Speaker 1: of taking power out of one out of one person's

1878
01:49:52,040 --> 01:49:54,560
Speaker 1: hands and putting in in another. Right to live in

1879
01:49:54,600 --> 01:49:58,240
Speaker 1: a constant state of victimology is to take for yourself

1880
01:49:58,439 --> 01:50:02,880
Speaker 1: the right to disempower others if you will, and and

1881
01:50:03,040 --> 01:50:07,480
Speaker 1: to empower yourself in the process because you are automatically

1882
01:50:07,560 --> 01:50:12,559
Speaker 1: in a state of righteousness because of your victimization. UM.

1883
01:50:13,320 --> 01:50:16,519
Speaker 1: I also want to tell you I've been trying four

1884
01:50:16,640 --> 01:50:19,800
Speaker 1: weeks now, and this goes to a number of issues,

1885
01:50:19,800 --> 01:50:22,800
Speaker 1: but I've been trying for weeks to get someone to

1886
01:50:22,880 --> 01:50:25,080
Speaker 1: come on this show, and I have reached out to

1887
01:50:25,200 --> 01:50:27,720
Speaker 1: friends of mine in the medical community. I've reached I

1888
01:50:27,760 --> 01:50:30,960
Speaker 1: would like someone to come on to discuss with me

1889
01:50:31,880 --> 01:50:38,160
Speaker 1: medically the ethics of transgender of what are being called

1890
01:50:38,560 --> 01:50:43,559
Speaker 1: transgender kids, transgender transgender children UM in some cases as

1891
01:50:43,600 --> 01:50:47,640
Speaker 1: young as eleven twelve thirteen. New York Times ran an

1892
01:50:47,720 --> 01:50:50,439
Speaker 1: article just last week. I think it was about how

1893
01:50:50,600 --> 01:50:52,880
Speaker 1: this needs to be, this needs to happen now, that

1894
01:50:53,120 --> 01:50:59,400
Speaker 1: doctors should be giving these are are adolescents, These are

1895
01:50:59,680 --> 01:51:03,000
Speaker 1: you know, like I said at twelve thirteen, fourteen year

1896
01:51:03,040 --> 01:51:07,479
Speaker 1: old kids large doses of hormones to prevent the onset

1897
01:51:07,560 --> 01:51:11,800
Speaker 1: of puberty. And so eventually I suppose after they turn

1898
01:51:11,960 --> 01:51:18,000
Speaker 1: eighteen they can officially transition with gender reassignment surgery. Uh.

1899
01:51:18,280 --> 01:51:23,080
Speaker 1: There was there's even a documentary on vice on HBO

1900
01:51:23,640 --> 01:51:26,559
Speaker 1: about transgender kids. And I've been hearing and seeing more

1901
01:51:26,600 --> 01:51:31,800
Speaker 1: and more about this phenomenon, and uh, to me, it's

1902
01:51:32,680 --> 01:51:36,320
Speaker 1: it is just it is insane. And I think there

1903
01:51:36,360 --> 01:51:39,720
Speaker 1: are issues now where progressives have, because they've under eight

1904
01:51:39,800 --> 01:51:44,560
Speaker 1: years of Obama, felt so comfortable politically and culturally to

1905
01:51:45,080 --> 01:51:48,200
Speaker 1: push further than ever before on many of these issues,

1906
01:51:48,280 --> 01:51:52,960
Speaker 1: particularly the social issues that the social justice warriors like

1907
01:51:53,120 --> 01:51:55,960
Speaker 1: to take up as their own, that now we've reached

1908
01:51:56,080 --> 01:51:59,960
Speaker 1: territory in this debate where five or six years ago

1909
01:52:00,000 --> 01:52:01,720
Speaker 1: we would have thought, no, no way, we'd be here.

1910
01:52:01,920 --> 01:52:04,320
Speaker 1: Kids they are. This is in the New York Times,

1911
01:52:04,439 --> 01:52:07,200
Speaker 1: this is on HBO, that it is being held up

1912
01:52:07,360 --> 01:52:14,320
Speaker 1: as a good idea, as in fact just uh necessary,

1913
01:52:15,320 --> 01:52:17,760
Speaker 1: the right thing to do to give a twelve year

1914
01:52:17,800 --> 01:52:19,880
Speaker 1: old who's a boy who thinks he's a girl, or

1915
01:52:19,960 --> 01:52:21,800
Speaker 1: vice versa. Let's assume it's a boy who thinks he's

1916
01:52:21,840 --> 01:52:25,879
Speaker 1: a girl. Um, to give that twelve year old massive

1917
01:52:26,000 --> 01:52:29,920
Speaker 1: dosages dosages of hormones and hormone therapy at a very

1918
01:52:29,960 --> 01:52:34,840
Speaker 1: young age to prevent the onset of of puberty or

1919
01:52:34,880 --> 01:52:38,560
Speaker 1: at least, I guess mail mail puberty, and and to

1920
01:52:38,680 --> 01:52:43,280
Speaker 1: then set one self up for a future gender reassignment surgery,

1921
01:52:44,360 --> 01:52:46,680
Speaker 1: which is also on its face, I know this for

1922
01:52:46,760 --> 01:52:50,400
Speaker 1: a fact. They cannot make a man into woman or

1923
01:52:50,400 --> 01:52:52,280
Speaker 1: a woman into a man, no matter what surgery they

1924
01:52:52,360 --> 01:52:54,800
Speaker 1: do anything else. So it's it's really a process of

1925
01:52:54,920 --> 01:53:01,080
Speaker 1: mutilation of otherwise healthy areas of the body. Um. I

1926
01:53:01,439 --> 01:53:06,960
Speaker 1: am appalled by this whole notion. Um. And what I've

1927
01:53:07,080 --> 01:53:09,680
Speaker 1: what I've been trying to do in recent weeks, I

1928
01:53:10,040 --> 01:53:12,559
Speaker 1: reach out. We're always told that Democrats are the party

1929
01:53:12,640 --> 01:53:16,040
Speaker 1: of science, and that they believe in logic and reason,

1930
01:53:17,160 --> 01:53:21,720
Speaker 1: and uh well specifically scientific logic and reason. Right then,

1931
01:53:21,800 --> 01:53:23,920
Speaker 1: that whether it's climate change or any other issue, the

1932
01:53:24,000 --> 01:53:27,080
Speaker 1: science is always on their side, and they use science

1933
01:53:27,120 --> 01:53:31,600
Speaker 1: as as a club to two hit people with to

1934
01:53:31,760 --> 01:53:33,640
Speaker 1: end a discussion or end a debate. Right, well, the

1935
01:53:33,720 --> 01:53:36,400
Speaker 1: science is on my side, and the same people will

1936
01:53:36,439 --> 01:53:39,439
Speaker 1: say that and will then turn around and tell you that, well,

1937
01:53:40,160 --> 01:53:42,840
Speaker 1: in this case on the transgender issue, that a twelve

1938
01:53:42,960 --> 01:53:47,280
Speaker 1: year old or thirteen year old should undergo this massive

1939
01:53:47,600 --> 01:53:51,240
Speaker 1: physical transformation. And by the way, they have no idea

1940
01:53:51,360 --> 01:53:53,840
Speaker 1: what the because no one has done this before, what

1941
01:53:53,960 --> 01:53:59,800
Speaker 1: the long term effects are psychologically, emotionally, physically of put

1942
01:54:00,320 --> 01:54:02,640
Speaker 1: somebody at such a young age through this process. But

1943
01:54:02,760 --> 01:54:05,439
Speaker 1: the times is running with oh yeah, absolutely. In fact,

1944
01:54:05,520 --> 01:54:09,240
Speaker 1: now the discussion has already become If you don't if

1945
01:54:09,280 --> 01:54:14,120
Speaker 1: you don't endorse this, if you don't celebrate this, you're

1946
01:54:14,160 --> 01:54:18,080
Speaker 1: a bigot. This is brand new. Well, they act like

1947
01:54:18,240 --> 01:54:19,519
Speaker 1: this has been the way it is through all of

1948
01:54:19,560 --> 01:54:21,439
Speaker 1: human history, that there are twelve year old that they

1949
01:54:21,760 --> 01:54:27,000
Speaker 1: try to uh biochemically engineer into non male or non

1950
01:54:27,120 --> 01:54:32,240
Speaker 1: female based upon a psychological state they've just arrived at.

1951
01:54:32,280 --> 01:54:35,080
Speaker 1: This is this is new even in the transgender debate. Everyone.

1952
01:54:35,160 --> 01:54:38,680
Speaker 1: This is a new frontier in that discussion. And I

1953
01:54:38,800 --> 01:54:42,000
Speaker 1: have been trying for weeks to just get a medical

1954
01:54:42,080 --> 01:54:44,840
Speaker 1: doctor to come on and talk to me about this,

1955
01:54:45,840 --> 01:54:49,200
Speaker 1: or or a psychiatrs, somebody with a background, a scientific

1956
01:54:49,280 --> 01:54:54,680
Speaker 1: background in this area. Nothing, nothing, They won't do it. Now,

1957
01:54:54,840 --> 01:54:57,720
Speaker 1: if I invited a heart surgeon on the heart surgeons

1958
01:54:57,760 --> 01:54:59,440
Speaker 1: are busy, you know, maybe they don't want want want

1959
01:54:59,440 --> 01:55:00,920
Speaker 1: to do radio. But if I said I need a

1960
01:55:00,960 --> 01:55:02,440
Speaker 1: heart surgeon to come on and talk to me about

1961
01:55:02,480 --> 01:55:05,760
Speaker 1: what heart surgery is, I don't think my politics would matter.

1962
01:55:06,480 --> 01:55:08,520
Speaker 1: I just want someone to explain to me how a

1963
01:55:08,600 --> 01:55:12,800
Speaker 1: twelve year old should undergo hormone therapy for transgender and

1964
01:55:12,880 --> 01:55:16,920
Speaker 1: eventual gender reassignment. And I can't get anybody to come

1965
01:55:16,960 --> 01:55:18,760
Speaker 1: on to defend the prep and nobody and we keep

1966
01:55:18,800 --> 01:55:21,360
Speaker 1: reaching out and asking someone. I don't want some left

1967
01:55:21,400 --> 01:55:25,120
Speaker 1: wing looney, you know, writer for Slate dot com or something.

1968
01:55:25,480 --> 01:55:28,680
Speaker 1: I want somebody who knows something. They won't even come on.

1969
01:55:29,000 --> 01:55:32,320
Speaker 1: If this is scientific, if this is about science, why

1970
01:55:32,480 --> 01:55:34,760
Speaker 1: can't I get a scientist to talk to me about this.

1971
01:55:36,560 --> 01:55:38,640
Speaker 1: I'm not a scientist, but I know that that's weird.

1972
01:55:39,120 --> 01:55:41,280
Speaker 1: I know that tells me a lot. So I'm gonna

1973
01:55:41,360 --> 01:55:43,360
Speaker 1: keep trying as once. You know I've been I've been

1974
01:55:43,400 --> 01:55:46,760
Speaker 1: searching high and low. Um, it seems like the science

1975
01:55:46,880 --> 01:55:50,000
Speaker 1: is not settled, all right, Please do check out facebook

1976
01:55:50,000 --> 01:55:53,000
Speaker 1: dot com slash buck Sexton that's our Facebook page, and

1977
01:55:53,080 --> 01:55:54,920
Speaker 1: until tomorrow, Shields High