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Speaker 1: I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. When

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Speaker 1: I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.

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Speaker 2: And when I find my.

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Speaker 3: Ball in a frid Egg Friday Egg, the dreaded Friday Egg,

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Speaker 3: Friday Frida Frida Egg bride Egg.

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Speaker 2: Lie, I'm about ready to run off of the course.

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Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of the

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Speaker 1: Friday Egg podcast. UH with us this morning, bright and

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Speaker 1: early and UH Florida Here and late at night in

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Speaker 1: Australia is Michael Clayton.

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Speaker 2: Uh.

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Speaker 1: Michael had a long playing career. He was a professional

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Speaker 1: on both the Australian and you European Tours. He won

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Speaker 1: a few times and he has now become one of

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Speaker 1: the games pre eminent golf course architects with his firm

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Speaker 1: of o CCM. So, Michael, thanks for coming on.

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Speaker 2: Thank you any look forward to it?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, i'd uh. You know, I think the it would

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Speaker 1: be great if you could tell us a little bit

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Speaker 1: about your background, how you got into golf and you know,

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Speaker 1: so the reader or the listeners that don't know a

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Speaker 1: ton about you can get a little info on you.

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Speaker 3: Well, I grew up in Melbourne, which is the best

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Speaker 3: city to play golf in Australia, as well as Sandbog courses.

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Speaker 3: But I grew up on the other side of the

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Speaker 3: city from the Sandbolt Radio. My parents bought a house

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Speaker 3: in the back of a place called Easton Golf Club,

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Speaker 3: which is now then dug out for housing in the

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Speaker 3: midst of cutting rides through it and building houses. But

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Speaker 3: I jumped the fence and started to caddy, and then

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Speaker 3: I just started to play, and you know, I got

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Speaker 3: kind of went through the system. Now, I suppose, playing

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Speaker 3: schoolboy golf and junior golf and having a golf and.

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Speaker 2: Peter Thompson was from here, so I spent a lot

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Speaker 2: of time watching him play. And my interest in design,

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Speaker 2: I suppose was you know, I grew up watching golf and.

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Speaker 3: Playing golf a bit at Roy Melbourne and kes Nathan

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Speaker 3: Metropolitan and Victoria, saw all the great causes in the

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Speaker 3: sand belt. So it was really how how I got

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Speaker 3: to where I am now, I suppose. But I started

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Speaker 3: as a caddy when I played, and I love to

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Speaker 3: play with it was like, you know, I guess you

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Speaker 3: meet kids the same age and used play golf all

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Speaker 3: every day, so that was what we did.

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Speaker 1: Ye sounds a lot like my childhood. I feel like

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Speaker 1: for somebody, you know, everybody kind of has like an

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Speaker 1: architectural enlightening when they play, like a real the really

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Speaker 1: great golf course, when you see like this is you

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Speaker 1: know what golf is supposed to be.

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Speaker 2: Like.

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Speaker 1: Do do you feel like that is kind of the

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Speaker 1: case with you?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: I think I I thought, well, I watched Torments at

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Speaker 3: Royal Melbourne before I played there, so I was aware

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Speaker 3: that it was a really good golf course. I wasn't

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Speaker 3: probably aware of quite how good, but you know, I

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Speaker 3: started playing there in the mid seventies.

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Speaker 2: I suppose I.

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Speaker 3: Watched Torments there in the earlies. The World Cup was

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Speaker 3: there in nineteen seventy two, so I you know, I

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Speaker 3: guess you instinctively.

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Speaker 2: Know that it's a good course. You read about it

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Speaker 2: being a good course, and golfers would come out.

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Speaker 3: Gary Player and Tom Weiscoff played that World Cup and

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Speaker 3: they would come out and say what a great golf

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Speaker 3: course it was, and you kind of, I suppose you're

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Speaker 3: aware that it's a special place. And then I watched

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Speaker 3: Gary Player player at Kingston Heat in nineteen seventy and.

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Speaker 2: So you know, you're just a round good golf.

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Speaker 3: Most cities in Australia have one or two or three

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Speaker 3: or four good courses, really good courses that Melbourne's got.

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Speaker 3: Melbourne in the Maynten Peninsula probably has fifteen or twenty

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Speaker 3: six so it's really the center of golf in Australia.

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Speaker 2: So I was lucky enough to grow up in the

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Speaker 2: middle of it.

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Speaker 1: That's it's interesting, I you know, Australia in Melbourne is

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Speaker 1: like on a my short list for places to visit to,

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Speaker 1: you know, just go on a you know, golf bench.

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Speaker 1: How would you you know, having traveled the world and

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Speaker 1: you know, played so many of the great courses, how

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Speaker 1: would you compare Melbourne to say, like a you know,

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Speaker 1: New York and Long Island or you know a Scotland

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Speaker 1: in Ireland, like in terms of concentration of you know,

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Speaker 1: one of those you know metro areas.

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Speaker 2: Well.

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Speaker 3: The place I my best was London because I played

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Speaker 3: in Europe for fifteen years and I lived we had

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Speaker 3: a house about ten minutes down the road from Saindale

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Speaker 3: for eight years, so that's the concentration of courses I

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Speaker 3: know best. So if you threw the Heathland courses together

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Speaker 3: with the sand Belt. I think Royal Melbourne's the best

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Speaker 3: course of anything, and then Kenkstone on a par with

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Speaker 3: the old courses, Saindale probably, but then if you run

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Speaker 3: out the next ten I think could probably they nearly

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Speaker 3: all be the Heathland courses. So in terms of the

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Speaker 3: concentration of golf, I would you know, I think London's

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Speaker 3: probably better in Swinley Forest and Saindale and Welton Heath,

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Speaker 3: the Berkshire Woking, but there's so many.

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Speaker 2: Tremendous courses over there, you know. I wonder if.

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Speaker 3: It's a bitter case of already bringing a bit of

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Speaker 3: contempt in Australia because I know them so well.

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Speaker 2: But you know, there's a concentration of.

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Speaker 3: Courses I think, I think London is pretty much unmatched.

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Speaker 2: I've played a little bit in New York, I mean the.

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Speaker 3: National and Maystone and I said Gina Kok and seeing

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Speaker 3: those courses up there, but not so much in the city,

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Speaker 3: but I mean Pine Valley, Mary and I suppose quite

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Speaker 3: a way away from New York.

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Speaker 2: But for me, I always thought London was an amazing

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Speaker 2: place to.

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Speaker 3: Play golf and not so far away the place that

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Speaker 3: people don't give any credit to. But Paris has got

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Speaker 3: some fantastic golf San Germain, Fontaine Blain, Lafontaine, Fronte. So

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Speaker 3: so there's some tremendous courses in Paris. And as a country,

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Speaker 3: I think England is an extraordinary variety of golf courses,

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Speaker 3: great links courses, Ethane courses, I mean places like Knots

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Speaker 3: and Ganton or Woodley. There's an amazing variety of golf

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Speaker 3: in England, and in such a small space really, I

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Speaker 3: mean compared with Australia and the United States. It's a

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Speaker 3: tiny country and you can kind of whip through England

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Speaker 3: the sort of six or eight weeks and played tremendous

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Speaker 3: golf from the you know, the southwest corner up to

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Speaker 3: the northeast.

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Speaker 2: It's an amazing country for golf.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I just need to convince the fiance that I

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Speaker 1: need a six to eight week work trip right out

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Speaker 1: in England.

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Speaker 3: Well, you can come to Melbourne for a couple of weeks,

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Speaker 3: into Melbourne and Tasmania, which is really becoming the center

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Speaker 3: of great public course golf in Australia with two new

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Speaker 3: courses on King Island and the two courts at Bambougle

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Speaker 3: and so Tasmania is really taking off as a great

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Speaker 3: a bit like Bandon and Came at Length and Sam

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Speaker 3: Valley marke Kis is.

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Speaker 2: Kind of remote golf in America.

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Speaker 3: It's Tasmania has become a bit sort of that modeln

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Speaker 3: Australia where the building core is on places they're not

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Speaker 3: hard to get to, but you've got to make an

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Speaker 3: effort to get to them.

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Speaker 2: And people are finding great land and building great golf,

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Speaker 2: which is a good thing for the game down here.

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Speaker 1: You guys have a project out there.

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Speaker 3: Correct, Well, we've got to maybe project in Hobart. There's

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Speaker 3: a tremendous bit of land on a spit spit of land.

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Speaker 3: Really it's just sand, dune and pine trees with water

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Speaker 3: on three sides, ten minutes from Hobout airports. So how

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Speaker 3: about's a decent size city. It might be the fifth

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Speaker 3: or sixth or seventh biggest city in Australia. It's a

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Speaker 3: couple of Tasmania it I think that's more than like

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Speaker 3: it happens. So that's potentially a great project for us.

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Speaker 1: Now that'd be cool. That's I mean, there's so much

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Speaker 1: good golf in the world that so you know, I

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Speaker 1: want to transition here into your playing career, you know,

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Speaker 1: kind of came up through the Australian ranks as a

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Speaker 1: great amateur player and you hit the European Tour and

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Speaker 1: professional golf kind of in the in the eighties. You know,

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Speaker 1: you get obviously got to, you know, with the European

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Speaker 1: Tour and Australian Tour, travel the world and play some

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Speaker 1: of the greatest places. But tell us a little bit

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Speaker 1: about what life on the European Tour was like in

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Speaker 1: that time, and you know, kind of a little bit

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Speaker 1: about your playing career.

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Speaker 3: Well, Al he's when I first started, it was top

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Speaker 3: sixty were exempt, so you just went over there and

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Speaker 3: you played Mondays and if you made the cut, you

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Speaker 3: kept going. So there was no way to plan what

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Speaker 3: you were going to do like you can now. I

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Speaker 3: mean at the start of the year you pretty much

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Speaker 3: know now what you're in and what you're not. But

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Speaker 3: over there was it was a matter of making the

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Speaker 3: cut and playing and.

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Speaker 2: If you missed it, you went back to Monday. So

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Speaker 2: that was a It wasn't much fun.

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Speaker 3: At the time, but I think it was a good

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Speaker 3: system because I think if you if you kept playing well,

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Speaker 3: you could keep going and make the cut. That way,

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Speaker 3: So I played a few tomments in eighty two. Then

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Speaker 3: I just missed the top sixty in my first full year,

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Speaker 3: and then I won a tourment earlier the next year,

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Speaker 3: so I was kind of exempt the rest of my time.

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Speaker 3: And then they went to a top one twenty five

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Speaker 3: system in nineteen eighty five.

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Speaker 2: But back then.

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Speaker 3: The tour really started in April and finished up in

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Speaker 3: We would come home in the middle of September.

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Speaker 2: I mean, now.

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Speaker 3: Obviously it goes all year because they did what was

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Speaker 3: the obvious thing, and they got outside of continental Europe

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Speaker 3: and went to South Africa and the Middle East and

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Speaker 3: now Australia and Asia, and so it's really become the

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Speaker 3: World Tour. Well not the World Tour, but they will tour.

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Speaker 3: You know, it was a time when I think, you know,

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Speaker 3: the greatest privilege really was to play with sev you

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Speaker 3: know his time, because I mean, for me, he was

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Speaker 3: the He was the best player ever to watch play golf.

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Speaker 2: He wasn't the best player, I don't think. I mean,

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Speaker 2: you know, Nicholas and Tiger and those guys were clearly

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Speaker 2: better players, but to watch someone play golf, there was

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Speaker 2: no one like that. He was the most charismatic.

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Speaker 3: And and it said an overe his word. But he

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Speaker 3: was I adored watching him play golf. He could hit

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Speaker 3: incredible shots. He was great fun to watch. He was

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Speaker 3: incredible theaters.

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Speaker 2: So I think all of his contemporaries, I mean, you know.

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Speaker 3: That the lower RCK players like like like we all

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Speaker 3: were sort of we're in awe of how he played.

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Speaker 3: But I think too, you know, if you spoke to

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Speaker 3: Valdo or Langa or Sandy Lyl or was he r

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Speaker 3: you know, his real contemporaries, they would all tell you.

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Speaker 2: That he was the he was the main man.

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Speaker 3: And you know, he was the first European to.

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Speaker 2: Show that they could compete in America and play in

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Speaker 2: America and win the Masters and when the Open Championship,

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Speaker 2: and so you know, playing his time was really incredible.

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Speaker 3: I don't think there's anybody sens who's I mean, Roy's

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Speaker 3: you know, his own man and great to watch in

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Speaker 3: his own way.

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Speaker 2: But I think they'll ever be able. Well, I suppose Palmer.

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Speaker 3: I saw Palma play when he was an old man,

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Speaker 3: really in the opening or when when I say old.

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Speaker 3: I saw him playing in the open it Millfield in

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Speaker 3: eighty seven and he played down here in Australia. He

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Speaker 3: played at my club at Metropolitan in ninety seventy eight.

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Speaker 3: But you know, for me, Sebbe was the guy to watch.

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Speaker 3: He was incredible. Really, I thought, do.

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Speaker 1: You feel like in a certain way, I really think,

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Speaker 1: like I think back to my my childhood and unfortunately

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Speaker 1: I'm too young to have like, you know, really seen

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Speaker 1: Brian Sebby. But you know, Tiger Woods was you know,

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Speaker 1: the guy that led to you know, kind of my

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Speaker 1: generation in this golf explosion. Do you feel like Sevvy

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Speaker 1: kind of had that effect on the on the world

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Speaker 1: and and in Europe especially where you know he got

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Speaker 1: you know, kind of what a a surgeon, you know,

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Speaker 1: popularity of golf within like you know, younger generations.

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Speaker 2: Well he said in Europe, I mean he brought that

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Speaker 2: to it life. It was a pretty.

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Speaker 3: Stayed tour really set it around England. I mean there

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Speaker 3: were i mean probably half the tourments for in England,

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Speaker 3: and I mean Tony Jackham was the big star, but

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Speaker 3: he really gone to America and just went to America.

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Speaker 3: So I was, you know, in the seventies it was

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Speaker 3: really I mean Bob Sheer and Jack Newton and the

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Speaker 3: Bobby Cole and the I mean, they were the big

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Speaker 3: stars of the the European Tour until Sevee really came

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Speaker 3: on the scene in nineteen seventy five. That was his

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Speaker 3: first full year and he really carried that tour from

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Speaker 3: then until.

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Speaker 2: You know, he lost his game really in the mid nineties.

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Speaker 3: And of course the difference between then and now is

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Speaker 3: that he didn't just up and leave and go and

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Speaker 3: live in Florida and play golf in America when none

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Speaker 3: of the leading Europeans we play in European well that

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Speaker 3: they play a few torments there, but he said he

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Speaker 3: played the European Tour, which was because he's big fight

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Speaker 3: with Bemen was it Beeman wanted him to play fifteen

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Speaker 3: tooments in America when he was committed to playing you know,

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Speaker 3: fifteen or eighteen torments in Europe and he played in

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Speaker 3: Australia and Japan, and I mean it was a ridiculous

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Speaker 3: expectation that, well, you have to play fifteen tourments in

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Speaker 3: America as well.

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Speaker 2: Is so at fight he had with Beman was really

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Speaker 2: crazy that you know, what they're asking him to do.

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Speaker 3: But he carried that tour for he made that tour

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Speaker 3: and carried it for fifteen years. So he was certainly,

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Speaker 3: you know, a significant player in that sense, and I

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Speaker 3: think he gave I mean, I mean, my generation had

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Speaker 3: grown up. You know, every superstar and golf was American.

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Speaker 3: I mean apart from Jack and really who won the

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Speaker 3: Open in the US Opening the sixty nine and seventy

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Speaker 3: I mean Nicholas and Watson and Miller and Weiss Golf

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Speaker 3: and Trevino and suppose Gary.

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Speaker 2: Player was you know the foreign superstar.

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Speaker 3: Really, but I mean, I mean almost every big star

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Speaker 3: and golf was American. And finally there was a player

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Speaker 3: from an unusual part of the world.

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Speaker 4: Who showed his generation that they too could be you know,

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Speaker 4: the preserve of the top of the game wasn't solely

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Speaker 4: with Americans.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's interesting. I think, like all the great

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Speaker 1: American players are you know nowadays or you know, you

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Speaker 1: see a different type of player and thinking about it

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Speaker 1: now is like, you know, Seve probably led to a

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Speaker 1: somewhat of a Spain like revival of golf. You know,

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Speaker 1: you see, there are a lot of world class Spanish

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Speaker 1: players now on the European tour, with Garcia, Ralpha Caberrabello,

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Speaker 1: Pablo Laza Bell and then you know you got John

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Speaker 1: Rahm coming up through the ranks, and you know, I

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Speaker 1: have to imagine a lot of that had to do

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Speaker 1: with you know, Seve's impact on the game and his popularity.

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Speaker 3: Well it did, but I mean Sevi was I mean

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Speaker 3: already when he came out, there was I mean kind

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Speaker 3: of Czaris and Panero and Garrido who were all kind

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Speaker 3: of Madrid Bays caddies. I mean, they're already good Spanish players,

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Speaker 3: and I mean, I mean Sevi's brother was a good player.

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Speaker 3: I'm almost a decent player in the European Tour. So

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Speaker 3: you know, Seve climb Out and I all knew he.

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Speaker 2: Was the big style.

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Speaker 3: But I mean, spine a Way has had good players.

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Speaker 3: You know, it's that Latin kind of flair for playing

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Speaker 3: the game, which was shared with Devissenzo, and you know

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Speaker 3: so later Edbuarda Romero and Vincentno Fernandez and Angl Cabrero,

304
00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:15,800
Speaker 3: who you know, they play the game much definitely than

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00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:20,000
Speaker 3: everyone else, they don't. They play with great flair and

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00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:25,160
Speaker 3: touch and whilst you know they certainly didn't have bad methods,

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00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:30,040
Speaker 3: they certainly weren't as analytical as Australians or South Africans

308
00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:32,560
Speaker 3: or Americans tend to be about golf and trying to

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Speaker 3: perfect the goals, and they played in a way that

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Speaker 3: reflected their character.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know, the character of their country is really,

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Speaker 2: I mean.

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Speaker 3: Much more easy going and let's try to analyze things

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Speaker 3: to death and just go and play with passion and

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Speaker 3: flair and get the ball in the hole. And I mean,

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Speaker 3: Sevy was the best at it. But I mean I

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Speaker 3: saw Divisenzo play when he was I mean, I say

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Speaker 3: he was an old man. He was younger than I

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00:17:57,119 --> 00:17:59,440
Speaker 3: am now, but it was fifty seven when I saw

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00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:02,320
Speaker 3: him play it forfeit in nineteen eighty, and well he

321
00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:05,560
Speaker 3: was still a great player. You know, was a pro

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Speaker 3: in his late fifties, which was a tremendous player. And

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00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:12,920
Speaker 3: Edbroo Romero was a beautiful player, and Caberra with him,

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00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:16,159
Speaker 3: and tremendous players to watch. So you're gonna love the

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Speaker 3: South American players and the Spanish players all together.

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Speaker 2: Really in terms of how they played.

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Speaker 1: The game, it's uh, it's interesting. So who you know?

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Speaker 1: I always asked this question with architecture, but in terms

329
00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:34,240
Speaker 1: of kind of European tour, like who's the best player

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00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:38,080
Speaker 1: that most Americans never heard of that was on the

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Speaker 1: European Tour and like the eighties.

332
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Speaker 3: Uh well he was, he was older then, but Neil

333
00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:45,359
Speaker 3: Coles was I think. I mean Neil Coles was a

334
00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:46,320
Speaker 3: tremendous player.

335
00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:49,080
Speaker 2: He hated to fly. He was on that bad Ryder

336
00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:51,159
Speaker 2: Cup flight that flew into Palm Springs. It was a

337
00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:54,240
Speaker 2: it was a it was apparently it was a wicked

338
00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:55,800
Speaker 2: flag turbulin stuff, you know.

339
00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:59,399
Speaker 3: I mean he he didn't fly much after that. But

340
00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:01,960
Speaker 3: Neil Carles is a fantastic players second in the open

341
00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:04,680
Speaker 3: to Wiscuff Tom with Miller in seventy three.

342
00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:06,600
Speaker 2: And I mean he won a lot of tourments in

343
00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:10,520
Speaker 2: Europe and was a great player really so so probably

344
00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:13,200
Speaker 2: Neil Coles. I mean, he was a beautiful golfer, I thought.

345
00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:16,960
Speaker 1: As I mean, if you're a player on the European

346
00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:19,160
Speaker 1: Tour and you don't like to fly, you're in you're

347
00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:20,600
Speaker 1: kind of in a tough bind.

348
00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:24,639
Speaker 2: Well you can why you can drive around Europe. I

349
00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:26,359
Speaker 2: mean there's a guy whose name escapes me.

350
00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:30,359
Speaker 3: I shouldn't I think, German guy who won't fly drives everywhere.

351
00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:33,520
Speaker 3: So obviously you're not going to have much Black team

352
00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:37,560
Speaker 3: to the tournaments this week and do baile wherever they're

353
00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:39,760
Speaker 3: playing abad w. I'm not sure where they're playing this week,

354
00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:43,840
Speaker 3: but you know, that's a long way to drive to Australia,

355
00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:46,480
Speaker 3: but you can easily drive the.

356
00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:49,960
Speaker 2: Continent now, uh huh. But but you're right.

357
00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:53,920
Speaker 3: You know, if you're not prepared to get into an aeroplane,

358
00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:57,080
Speaker 3: it makes it a tough profession to really take full

359
00:19:57,080 --> 00:19:57,800
Speaker 3: advantage of it.

360
00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:02,199
Speaker 1: Yeah. I remember there was a basket ball player a

361
00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:06,720
Speaker 1: few years back, Royce White or something. He had like

362
00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:11,560
Speaker 1: an extreme phobia of flying, and you know, it costs

363
00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:15,640
Speaker 1: him getting drafted very highly to you know, moving back

364
00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:18,200
Speaker 1: and I don't I think he's out of the league now.

365
00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:21,600
Speaker 1: You know, it's like you gotta gotta be able to

366
00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:24,560
Speaker 1: fly if you want to be a professional athlete these

367
00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:29,239
Speaker 1: days with all the travel. So tell me, you know,

368
00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:32,800
Speaker 1: with the game, and you know, you've seen the really

369
00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:35,879
Speaker 1: the change with technology from you know person and to

370
00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:41,040
Speaker 1: metal woods to now today where you know, just you know,

371
00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:46,080
Speaker 1: the the clubs are capped, but the ball just keeps

372
00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:49,280
Speaker 1: getting better, and you know, the more and more courses

373
00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:52,760
Speaker 1: are becoming vulnerable and scorable, Like how do you feel

374
00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:57,160
Speaker 1: about kind of what's happening with the landscape of the game,

375
00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:02,480
Speaker 1: with technology and golf courses, Well, I.

376
00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:03,520
Speaker 2: Think it's a disaster.

377
00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:08,000
Speaker 3: I just think that, you know, every Australia doesn't have

378
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:11,560
Speaker 3: a long golf course anymore. I mean, every single golf

379
00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:13,679
Speaker 3: course is in Australia is obsolete.

380
00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:17,640
Speaker 2: If the measure is how Alistair.

381
00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:20,520
Speaker 3: Mackenzie and Alec Russel and the great designers down here

382
00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:23,280
Speaker 3: one of the golf courses to play. I mean I

383
00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:26,959
Speaker 3: watched the final of the Australian Amateur on Sunday. Men

384
00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:30,560
Speaker 3: Wood Lee, who's Menji Lee's brother, was in the final

385
00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:33,840
Speaker 3: seventeen years old. So the argument that these guys are

386
00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:36,200
Speaker 3: better athletes, I mean, here's a seventeen year old boy

387
00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:40,840
Speaker 3: who played the last hole at Yariaa, which was always

388
00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:42,840
Speaker 3: a short Part five in my day. Was that Pop

389
00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:45,720
Speaker 3: Sheer was hitting five irons and Greg Norman was could

390
00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:47,040
Speaker 3: perhaps get there with a six iron.

391
00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:48,439
Speaker 2: It was a driving a four iron for me.

392
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:52,400
Speaker 3: His kid drove it in the cross bunkers and then

393
00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:54,639
Speaker 3: in a nine nine out of the cross bunkers twenty

394
00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:55,600
Speaker 3: yards over the green.

395
00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:58,399
Speaker 2: I mean, it's a part five. The sixteenth old was it.

396
00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:01,320
Speaker 3: Well, they played them as pat forwards during the week,

397
00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:03,600
Speaker 3: but they played off the back to you at sixteen.

398
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:08,240
Speaker 2: Driving a wedge. So every golf course is obsolete.

399
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:10,840
Speaker 3: And I can't tell me he's not a better athlete

400
00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:13,800
Speaker 3: as a seventeen year old boy than Greg Norman or

401
00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:16,440
Speaker 3: Sam Sneed or Jack Nicholas were as thirty year old men.

402
00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:20,400
Speaker 3: So the argument that these guys are better athletes is, well,

403
00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:23,520
Speaker 3: you know, partly it's I mean, sure they're fitter and stronger,

404
00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:28,760
Speaker 3: but you know, there are two things that matter in

405
00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:32,440
Speaker 3: terms of the R and a's job and the USA job.

406
00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:33,919
Speaker 2: I mean, I mean they had two jobs.

407
00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:39,080
Speaker 3: One was to protect or maintain the skillet took to

408
00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:42,080
Speaker 3: play the game at the top level, and one was

409
00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:44,439
Speaker 3: to protect the golf courses. And they've only failed at

410
00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:47,399
Speaker 3: both of them. So that every kid who plays golf

411
00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:50,280
Speaker 3: now who's half decent can hit the same.

412
00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:53,679
Speaker 2: Drives but thirty hours longer then Nichols and Norman and

413
00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:57,040
Speaker 2: was he and sev hit And don't tell me they're

414
00:22:57,040 --> 00:22:57,680
Speaker 2: more skillful.

415
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:03,760
Speaker 3: No, I mean, every decent golf course is obsolete. So

416
00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:06,360
Speaker 3: you go to a place like Millfield or shinner Cock.

417
00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:08,440
Speaker 3: Can you look back at where those championship tees are.

418
00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:11,400
Speaker 3: It's I mean, it's laughable whether some of those teas

419
00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:14,600
Speaker 3: are on Millfield, and I I mean the worst you know,

420
00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:16,359
Speaker 3: for me, the best golf course in the world is

421
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:17,000
Speaker 3: the old course.

422
00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:18,760
Speaker 2: It's Andrew's and.

423
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:23,320
Speaker 3: The worst aspect of playing that golf course now is

424
00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:27,240
Speaker 3: almost on every single hole you make the exact same

425
00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:30,440
Speaker 3: walk back into the right and walk back sixty yards

426
00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:33,520
Speaker 3: to these teas that are out of bounds or on

427
00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:35,200
Speaker 3: the Eden.

428
00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:37,560
Speaker 2: Course or the New Course, or the out of bounds

429
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:39,760
Speaker 2: in the case of the tea on the oat hole seventeenth.

430
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,840
Speaker 2: So you know, it's just.

431
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:49,520
Speaker 3: Beyond dismaying that they've let the ball get so out

432
00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:54,160
Speaker 3: of control, and seemingly to me they've let the titleist

433
00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:56,240
Speaker 3: company whose balls I've always played with and they've always

434
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:59,639
Speaker 3: made great golfers. But you know, it seems like the

435
00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:03,280
Speaker 3: Buss Titler's runs golf because as far as I can tell,

436
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:07,760
Speaker 3: they threaten lawsuits, and the RNA and US terrified of lawsuits.

437
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:13,280
Speaker 3: So here we have a manufacturer controlling, you know, the

438
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:15,600
Speaker 3: way the great golf courses of the water played.

439
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:19,720
Speaker 2: So you know, it was the job of the administration

440
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:24,560
Speaker 2: to protect those golf courses against the.

441
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,719
Speaker 3: Ravages of the equipment. I mean, you can't protect them

442
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:30,919
Speaker 3: against small increases. And of course they will argue on

443
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:33,120
Speaker 3: the record, not off the record, because I'll admit they've

444
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:36,440
Speaker 3: screwed it up, but on the record they say, well,

445
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:39,280
Speaker 3: they're only small increases. It's not really noticeable. Or it's

446
00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:43,320
Speaker 3: like saying a three year old kid who's three feet high,

447
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:45,920
Speaker 3: it's not really noticeable that he grows into a year,

448
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:47,399
Speaker 3: but he turns into a six foot six.

449
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:51,480
Speaker 2: Man, so little little.

450
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:57,720
Speaker 3: Sure, it's you know, the largue that while the distancing

451
00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:00,639
Speaker 3: increases aren't noticeable, but in the end, you watched a

452
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 3: seventeen year old boy played the last whole Yeah, yeah,

453
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:05,520
Speaker 3: with a driving a wedge is like, don't tell me

454
00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:08,600
Speaker 3: the ball's not going for it. I mean, you know

455
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:10,399
Speaker 3: when Greg Norman was sitting five and six times and

456
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 3: they're okay. I mean that was considered because because back

457
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,320
Speaker 3: in Peter Thompson's day, it was a drive and a

458
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 3: three wood or a four wood. And back when I

459
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:22,639
Speaker 3: Russell built that golf course, it was a they were

460
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:24,240
Speaker 3: playing with hickory shafts and it was two woods in

461
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:28,040
Speaker 3: a pitch. So they're just a fenced with the second

462
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 3: wood shot in terms of we're driving a pitch hole,

463
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:33,240
Speaker 3: which is you know, I played with Ryan Ruffles Royal

464
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:36,240
Speaker 3: Melbourne and Ryan's the best kind of young player in

465
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:41,520
Speaker 3: Australia and we played the West Court. We played the

466
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:44,960
Speaker 3: West Course at Royal Melbourne. Pretty much every hole was

467
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:46,840
Speaker 3: a driving a wedge for him. It's one of the

468
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 3: great golf courses in the world. And to watch, you know,

469
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:53,479
Speaker 3: eighteen year old and perhaps he's a little more than

470
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 3: a boy, but not really in a word, end of

471
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:58,400
Speaker 3: pretty much every hole the sevennth doubles into the wind.

472
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,640
Speaker 2: He had three iron five irons, so probably a little

473
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 2: longer as a four hundred and forty out four.

474
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:08,159
Speaker 3: But you know, if Mackenzie came back now, he would

475
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 3: just go ballistic. The people whose responsive it was to

476
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:13,560
Speaker 3: protect his golf courses.

477
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:19,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I completely agree. I think it's you know, these

478
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:23,359
Speaker 1: kids now that are coming up, their swings are built

479
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:26,879
Speaker 1: where they you know, they've never seen. You know, I

480
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:29,679
Speaker 1: grew up and as a freshman in high school I

481
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 1: was hitting the ball like two hundred yards. You know,

482
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,880
Speaker 1: these kids hit it three hundred yards as freshmen, and

483
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 1: their swings are built around like you know, the forgiveness

484
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:42,560
Speaker 1: of the clubs, and they they never have a bad mess.

485
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:48,880
Speaker 3: Well, the faces, you know, the face is so big,

486
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:51,679
Speaker 3: the shaft is so long and so light, and the

487
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:54,399
Speaker 3: ball goes straight because it once spins. So you know,

488
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:57,920
Speaker 3: it's all about how fast and how fast and hide

489
00:26:57,920 --> 00:26:58,480
Speaker 3: you get the ball.

490
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:00,280
Speaker 2: It's all about power.

491
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:04,200
Speaker 3: So not only does it destroy the golf courses, it

492
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:08,800
Speaker 3: drives out the inventive shorter player.

493
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:13,600
Speaker 1: So if you were in charge of golf, how would

494
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:16,240
Speaker 1: you deal with kind of the problem. Would you do

495
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 1: a rollback or would you, you know, create a different

496
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 1: type of equipment for you know, the touring pros or

497
00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:26,560
Speaker 1: high level amateurs. How would you approach it?

498
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:31,399
Speaker 3: Well, I think you have to bifurcate the ball. Of

499
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 3: course they don't want to, but I mean we had

500
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:37,119
Speaker 3: that forever. I mean we were I mean I grew

501
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 3: up playing the no ball. When the Americans played with

502
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 3: the big ball, we played with the small ball. So

503
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 3: so the game was bifurcated for the longest time, for

504
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:49,920
Speaker 3: forty or fifty years, and then we were as top

505
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,639
Speaker 3: level amters, chose to play the big ball because if

506
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 3: we ever wanted to be pros, we knew we were

507
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 3: gonna have to play with it. So for six or

508
00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:00,400
Speaker 3: seven years the pro tour in Australia in the top

509
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 3: level playing the big ball, whilst the club players continued

510
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:06,360
Speaker 3: on with a small ball until the early eighties when they,

511
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 3: you know, the small ball was banned.

512
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:11,760
Speaker 2: So it will say.

513
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,679
Speaker 3: That, well you can't you know, change the ball and

514
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:16,760
Speaker 3: take this distance off the average amount player.

515
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:20,920
Speaker 2: But when they've already done that much and no one

516
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:24,360
Speaker 2: really cared, and I mean no one, because.

517
00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 3: I actually don't think that would look that much, you know,

518
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:29,840
Speaker 3: with the stroke of a pen. And you know, in

519
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:32,320
Speaker 3: nineteen eighty three or eighty four when they bound a

520
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 3: small ball in Britain and Australia, in theory everyone that

521
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:39,240
Speaker 3: game lost twenty five yards because I went from playing

522
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:41,360
Speaker 3: at one point stateball.

523
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:44,440
Speaker 1: So do you think outside of rolling back the ball,

524
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 1: is there anything else you could do.

525
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 2: Well?

526
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 3: I mean, the argument is always going to be that

527
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 3: the ambutters want to play with what the pros use.

528
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 3: But I mean I would try and restore the skillet

529
00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:00,720
Speaker 3: took to be a great driver, so you make a

530
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:03,959
Speaker 3: more ball that's more difficult to drive far and straight,

531
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:07,280
Speaker 3: and you limit the size of the club and on

532
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 3: the driver, which of course they should have.

533
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 2: Done years ago but never did. So when the manufacturers

534
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 2: figured out how to make a head like a frying

535
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 2: pan and make it light and make itself didn't crack,

536
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:22,560
Speaker 2: then yeah, there was almost no limit on the side

537
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 2: of the driver.

538
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 3: So I would I would try and limit the size

539
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:32,080
Speaker 3: that I would understand. So really the balls the thing

540
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 3: to change. But I mean Savvy was.

541
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 2: An advocate of I mean, you could have on a wedge.

542
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 2: I mean, it's never gonna happen.

543
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:45,040
Speaker 3: But I would say that every bo use the Maszuo

544
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 3: or some sort of blade two iron or one iron,

545
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 3: I mean at least have one in their bags. Are

546
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:53,720
Speaker 3: essentially the guys who don't want to use it. You're

547
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 3: making a thirteen type game, that a falling type game.

548
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 3: But I think if you have one to be a

549
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 3: professional player something you can get a problem too. I mean,

550
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 3: this hybrid stuff is just junk for golf, if you know,

551
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 3: for top level pros. But that's kind of pine the

552
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 3: sky stuff, really. But the balls are easiest and the

553
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,800
Speaker 3: main thing to fix. And if I was a good player,

554
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:18,600
Speaker 3: I'd be wanting to make the equipment as difficult to

555
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 3: use as possible. And you know the real problem, well,

556
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 3: one of the problems with the game now has been

557
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 3: kind of the complete decimation of Korea type amate golf.

558
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 2: There are no career.

559
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 3: Amateur players left anymore. I mean, I mean every a

560
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:38,040
Speaker 3: certainly in Australia and Britain. It's just a bunch of

561
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:42,720
Speaker 3: kids who want to be pros. So because the equipment

562
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 3: has given them all the same set of skills, they

563
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 3: all look like they're really good players because the equipment

564
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 3: makes them look.

565
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 2: Like really good players. And some of them are, and

566
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 2: some of them are just kind of faking it because

567
00:30:54,800 --> 00:31:00,040
Speaker 2: the equipment makes them look good. So you know, what

568
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 2: the equipment has done is throwing thousands and thousands of

569
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 2: kids into the pile of you know, the same skill set.

570
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:13,560
Speaker 3: Really Whereas you know, when I was growing up, the

571
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 3: guys who could really drive the ball, well, you know

572
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:18,960
Speaker 3: the guys who could drive the Ballada ball with a

573
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 3: per Simon driver, well, I mean Nicholas and Wisdom and

574
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 3: severy des By what people think was a great driver, Norman.

575
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 3: I mean they had a huge white goff a huge

576
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 3: advantage because there was such powerful, long straight drivers and

577
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 3: you know, you either drove the ball like the guys

578
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:38,840
Speaker 3: I grew up among them, Peter Thompson growing master Halo.

579
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 3: When you were you know, a short, relatively short, straight

580
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 3: hitter who digged the ball up and put him to play,

581
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:48,320
Speaker 3: or you were long and crooked, or you were long

582
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 3: and great. But now everyone's long and straight, and you know,

583
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:55,040
Speaker 3: so the skillet takes to drive the ball has been

584
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 3: up utterly decimated by the equipment. And I would argue

585
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:03,680
Speaker 3: that hasn't done the average probate good because the ball

586
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:09,880
Speaker 3: for them, you see so many more wildly crooked shots.

587
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:13,480
Speaker 3: You know, the club you can swing so much hotter

588
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:17,040
Speaker 3: in the middle of the faces, some yasy to hit,

589
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:18,920
Speaker 3: but if it's pointing in the wrong direction, the ball

590
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 3: goes miles off line.

591
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:25,040
Speaker 1: Now, well, something I've found just it just bothers me

592
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:30,479
Speaker 1: is the length of the driver. You know, where you

593
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 1: look at the average length of a tour driver, it's

594
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 1: gone up one inch over the last you know, fifteen years.

595
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 1: And somehow club manufacturers, because you know, they've got a

596
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 1: limit on their you know, how they can construct a

597
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 1: golf club, they've decided to go after the average amateur

598
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 1: player and do it by giving them more yardage by

599
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 1: making a longer driver. But all that does is it

600
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:58,720
Speaker 1: makes it go longer and way and way worse directions.

601
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 1: You know, if a younger driver meant longer and straighter drives,

602
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,360
Speaker 1: every PGA tour player would be using it, but none

603
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:05,800
Speaker 1: of them do.

604
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 3: Was a Jimmy Walker that went back to a forty

605
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 3: two inch driver in Hawaii or something.

606
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean at the end of the day,

607
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 1: like length is great, but you gotta be in a

608
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:18,600
Speaker 1: fair way to score.

609
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, so you know what, you know, it sounds like

610
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:25,960
Speaker 3: we're a bunch of grumpy old men talking about the

611
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:26,520
Speaker 3: good old days.

612
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 2: But but.

613
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:34,440
Speaker 1: I wish I was old that young. Yeah, I'm just grumbled.

614
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 3: And the average amateur player, I mean they were, you know,

615
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 3: the guys like kdy For. They didn't very many good shots,

616
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:42,840
Speaker 3: but were the first bos like kd For were twenty

617
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 3: five handicappers. But they ort the ball pretty straight, and

618
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:47,600
Speaker 3: I mean no one hit the ball. They would mishit

619
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 3: it a lot, but they never hit it really crooked.

620
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 3: I mean, now you see, the average amazate can hit

621
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:55,280
Speaker 3: the ball so far off line. Now, it's amazing because

622
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 3: the shafts are so long, and you know, the swing

623
00:33:57,240 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 3: harder and it looks it looks like you can swing

624
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,080
Speaker 3: away with him unity And of course that six or

625
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 3: you know four, three or four or five really good

626
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 3: drives around. But whether are three of them just you

627
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:11,800
Speaker 3: don't find so anyway, that's uh, that's the equipment.

628
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 1: So yeah, So Caddy, you caddied this year in the Olympics.

629
00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 1: Tell us a little bit about that experience and how

630
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:22,920
Speaker 1: you know what it was like, you know, being a

631
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 1: part of representing a country.

632
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 2: Well, I'm not sure I was representing my country.

633
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:31,880
Speaker 1: I mean, you're you're part of the team.

634
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 3: I guess we were kind of Well, there's a kid

635
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:38,920
Speaker 3: at a club of girl who was Maria. Came to

636
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 3: Australia when she was eight years old, didn't play golf

637
00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:43,920
Speaker 3: and she played in the Australian Open when she was twelve.

638
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 3: I can remember watching her plays. I watched her play

639
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:50,040
Speaker 3: for holes. It's this twelve year old. You know, she

640
00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:52,400
Speaker 3: wasn't a little girl. She was actually you know, she

641
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:54,120
Speaker 3: was sort of five foot five or something. But she

642
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:56,080
Speaker 3: there was this twelve year old kid playing in the

643
00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:58,920
Speaker 3: Australian Open. She qualified and she missed a cut, but

644
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 3: not by many. Then she joined the Cowboy Player Aunt

645
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:08,040
Speaker 3: about three or four years later I think, and we

646
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 3: got to play a little bit. And she called me

647
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 3: one night and she'd been assigned to caddy for the

648
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:17,400
Speaker 3: train Open at Victoria about twenty fourteen.

649
00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:19,480
Speaker 2: She said, what should I do? I said, what I

650
00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 2: cady for you?

651
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:22,400
Speaker 3: So I started to caddy for a little bit, and

652
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:24,719
Speaker 3: you know, we did sort of three or four or

653
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:29,319
Speaker 3: five touraments a year, and then last year she had

654
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:30,320
Speaker 3: pretty lowly.

655
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:34,040
Speaker 2: She missed the top twenty five on there the.

656
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:37,360
Speaker 3: LPGA Tour School in twenty and fifteen twenty fifteen, but

657
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:40,800
Speaker 3: she she had a number that gave her sons status,

658
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 3: which was basically much.

659
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:44,839
Speaker 2: But she was starting this train open and we did

660
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:51,200
Speaker 2: that and she finished fourteenth and she off her number

661
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:53,359
Speaker 2: and she finished fortieth there. Okadie four her there.

662
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:58,520
Speaker 3: So she reranked really well and the finished second at

663
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:02,919
Speaker 3: King's Mill and eighth in the pj CO Web out

664
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 3: of the Australian Olympic team. So she asked me to

665
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:09,719
Speaker 3: go K four beround there, which was it was a

666
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:11,480
Speaker 3: lot of fun. It was a really cool event. It

667
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 3: was great to be a part of. It was fun

668
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:15,799
Speaker 3: to see her play in it.

669
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 2: It was great to Gil Hans walked around the course

670
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:23,960
Speaker 2: with us on the first practice run we did, and

671
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:27,279
Speaker 2: so that was interesting. It was anything but heard us.

672
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:32,479
Speaker 3: See you know how he thought about how we designed holes,

673
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:36,359
Speaker 3: because obviously I was, I mean, I think, I mean,

674
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:40,279
Speaker 3: I'm not sure how many nineteen year old young women

675
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:42,560
Speaker 3: are that aware of the strategy of golf.

676
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:44,440
Speaker 2: It's pretty much hit the ball where you're told to

677
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:46,879
Speaker 2: hit it and go from point A to point B.

678
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:48,200
Speaker 2: But so kind of.

679
00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:50,600
Speaker 3: Growing up in Melbourne and played knew there was more

680
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 3: to golf and just see the ball straight. So you know,

681
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:56,560
Speaker 3: we had a really cool time Monday with Gill and

682
00:36:57,160 --> 00:36:59,320
Speaker 3: walking around talking about the golf course and the angles

683
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:03,480
Speaker 3: and you know there's a great old George Thomas crote

684
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 3: about So George Thomas Thomson wrote about the middle of

685
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:10,360
Speaker 3: the being.

686
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:13,880
Speaker 2: The ideal line to the whole. And you know, Sami

687
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:18,239
Speaker 2: many PGA two of course is the object is just

688
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:20,480
Speaker 2: hit the fairway. It doesn't matter where you hit it.

689
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:23,120
Speaker 2: But you know, the Pharaohs are.

690
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:24,719
Speaker 3: On line with high rough and it's not the sort

691
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:27,760
Speaker 3: of golf I enjoy much. But you know, wrong Melbourne

692
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:30,840
Speaker 3: and the Pharaoh's of sixty or seventy years wide.

693
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 2: But yeah, to play the golf was really ruddy for me.

694
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:39,960
Speaker 3: So you know, she had a good understanding of playing

695
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:43,360
Speaker 3: for the edges and opened up the angles, and so

696
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 3: it was interesting fun four days to play the golf

697
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:50,440
Speaker 3: where she played pretty well. She it was my she

698
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:55,360
Speaker 3: hit the rarely if ever is she hit the wrong

699
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:57,399
Speaker 3: shot and the wrong club when we got to.

700
00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 2: The thirteenth hole on Sunday, was not an unreasonable chance

701
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:03,759
Speaker 2: to go.

702
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:07,160
Speaker 3: She had to pass thirteen, four and fifteen and Bertie

703
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:10,799
Speaker 3: the last three. But Burnie the last three was very

704
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:13,880
Speaker 3: possible given the nature of those holes, and thirty it

705
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:15,719
Speaker 3: was the toughest hole, and she had a kind of

706
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:17,640
Speaker 3: a dodgy number. It was sort of between a five

707
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:24,920
Speaker 3: on and a lofted hybrid. Shoot the wrong club for

708
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:26,480
Speaker 3: letting you hit it because I kind of knew it

709
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:28,279
Speaker 3: was and I should have stopped at it, you know.

710
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:29,560
Speaker 2: I shoot over the back of the green and got

711
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:31,319
Speaker 2: horrible in the bunker and made six and that was that.

712
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:34,799
Speaker 2: But but she played well, finished thirteenth and it was

713
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:37,560
Speaker 2: a really interesting week for her. It was a good

714
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:43,840
Speaker 2: confidence boost and it was she finished up the fiftieth

715
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:48,400
Speaker 2: on the maybe started the pretty much place at all,

716
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:51,759
Speaker 2: So it was the for me, it was a.

717
00:38:51,800 --> 00:39:01,719
Speaker 5: Fun Yeah, it's interesting you you talked about the architecture

718
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:05,399
Speaker 5: and you know how wits and being more about being

719
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:08,400
Speaker 5: on the correct side of the fairway as opposed to

720
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:11,319
Speaker 5: the you know, just down the middle is kind of

721
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:12,320
Speaker 5: your your belief.

722
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:15,960
Speaker 1: I think that that is so you know, lost, and

723
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:19,400
Speaker 1: I think the angles is what, you know, made so

724
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:24,719
Speaker 1: many of these you know, Golden Age courses great, and

725
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:26,880
Speaker 1: it's something that got kind of lost there in the

726
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:29,640
Speaker 1: middle of Dese. I feel like you, along with a

727
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:32,160
Speaker 1: lot of the New Age architects, are trying to bring

728
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:32,680
Speaker 1: that back.

729
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:39,080
Speaker 2: Well yeah, you know you can't have.

730
00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:42,840
Speaker 3: Well you can, but it's very difficult to correct strategy

731
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:45,759
Speaker 3: if you don't have any wits. So, you know, you

732
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 3: look at the old courses Statis, which is basically two

733
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 3: fairways wade with bunkers in the middle, and you know

734
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:56,600
Speaker 3: the National Golf Links and sand Hills and Nebraska, you know,

735
00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:58,239
Speaker 3: the great the first.

736
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:01,359
Speaker 2: Great modern course really and you look at what Mike

737
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 2: cars has done at Bandon and out of Sand Valley.

738
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:07,480
Speaker 3: And what Gill died it Castle Stewart in Scotland, and

739
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:11,799
Speaker 3: you know some of the courses we've done here. You know,

740
00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:26,560
Speaker 3: I love playing golf when you've got to work and

741
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:27,920
Speaker 3: then you must sit the ball there and if you

742
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 3: don't you get this, you get six inch ruff on

743
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:32,120
Speaker 3: the side of the fairway and six inch roff around

744
00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:32,440
Speaker 3: the greens.

745
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 2: That's what you get.

746
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:36,680
Speaker 3: So as Seve said, you know, it's very and he's

747
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 3: finished way, very mechanic type golf, and it is, you know,

748
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:42,400
Speaker 3: it's why Sev.

749
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:45,120
Speaker 2: He was He was the only man who.

750
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:50,880
Speaker 3: Ever won it St Andrews Augusta and Roal Melbourne, and

751
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:56,520
Speaker 3: no surprise given that you know it was Mackenzie's over

752
00:40:56,719 --> 00:41:02,600
Speaker 3: course and arguably his certainly probably two of his best

753
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:05,040
Speaker 3: three courses long with Cyperuspoint and perhaps Crystal Downs. But

754
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:10,839
Speaker 3: here was a you read the spirit of Andrews and.

755
00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:13,120
Speaker 2: He loved it.

756
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:15,160
Speaker 3: Walla Hagen played golf and here, fifty or sixty years

757
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:19,680
Speaker 3: later it was, you know, Walla Hagen reincarnated in SEVEI Ballisterio.

758
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:24,920
Speaker 3: So they played golf with flair and carefree abandon but

759
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:27,839
Speaker 3: you had to give them space to play, and if

760
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 3: you didn't, you kind of blunted their skills. And sure

761
00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:34,160
Speaker 3: you could criticize Savvy for not being you're not having

762
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 3: the game to win the US Open. But and that's

763
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:40,880
Speaker 3: fine because that was the preserve of something like Hale Owen,

764
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:44,880
Speaker 3: who played the perfect US Open game. And that's the

765
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:46,640
Speaker 3: great thing about golf is you can have a golf

766
00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:49,560
Speaker 3: course and a championship that's set up to suit a

767
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:52,440
Speaker 3: Halo or a Ben Hogan or a jack Net because

768
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 3: but you can also have championship set up to suit

769
00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:57,400
Speaker 3: someone like ballisteros or Hagen who.

770
00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:05,200
Speaker 2: Needed more space. Once you gave him that it was. Yeah.

771
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 3: So the great thing about golf is that, you know,

772
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:15,480
Speaker 3: different golf courses show off different skill sets and again, hey, equipment,

773
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:21,680
Speaker 3: that's what it's been, I'm sure, which pretty full one

774
00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:22,400
Speaker 3: guy Simeline.

775
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:31,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the ball and you can't you know, usually

776
00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:36,360
Speaker 2: aful player. Yeah, so the game is actually changed in

777
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:37,200
Speaker 2: the last twenty years.

778
00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:42,440
Speaker 1: Really, Yeah, I I completely agree. It's you know, the

779
00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:46,560
Speaker 1: kind of art of working the ball and different ways

780
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:51,920
Speaker 1: of getting it done or diminishing every every year. So

781
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:55,640
Speaker 1: with with your design firm that you guys started, So

782
00:42:55,719 --> 00:43:00,960
Speaker 1: it's O C C M for short, it's you, Jeff Ogov,

783
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:05,319
Speaker 1: Mike Cocking and Ashley Mead tell us a little bit

784
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:08,200
Speaker 1: about how you guys got together and started. Was it

785
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:12,279
Speaker 1: kind of just like minds and you know how it

786
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:18,400
Speaker 1: got started? And you know a little bit about this company, Well, I.

787
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:21,680
Speaker 2: Was like mine's well I started off, I started off

788
00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:22,160
Speaker 2: a business.

789
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 3: Well I didn't start off to two of my partners

790
00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 3: in the original business, which was Michael Plainton Golf Designed

791
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:32,719
Speaker 3: with two superintendents in Melbourne, came to me and asked

792
00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:34,600
Speaker 3: me if I was interested in starting off a business

793
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:37,600
Speaker 3: and design in nineteen ninety five, and we did that

794
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:43,000
Speaker 3: and we employed Michael and Ashley in two thousand, I

795
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 3: think the two thousand and one pretty much around the

796
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:49,800
Speaker 3: same time. So that business survived until it didn't survive

797
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:52,640
Speaker 3: anymore in twenty ten, when.

798
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:54,560
Speaker 2: You know, it was a sign of the times. It

799
00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:58,440
Speaker 2: was the market really telling us that you did run

800
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:06,520
Speaker 2: your bit your business more. Yeah, we sort of fifteen

801
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:08,799
Speaker 2: years really and we won year where well, we can't

802
00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:11,640
Speaker 2: pay the wages anymore, so we did what Well, the

803
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:13,879
Speaker 2: business went the way of the business. So I called

804
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:15,680
Speaker 2: Jeff and said, you know, this is a situation.

805
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:20,040
Speaker 3: We need some money, and he didn't even think about

806
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:21,800
Speaker 3: it for well he thought about it for a second,

807
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:23,160
Speaker 3: I think, and said, I mean that's great.

808
00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:27,520
Speaker 2: You know. So Jeff came on board. He plant us

809
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:27,960
Speaker 2: some money, he.

810
00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:32,000
Speaker 3: Said, go start an office and let's keep going. So

811
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:36,239
Speaker 3: so so we kind of started in twenty ten and

812
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:43,120
Speaker 3: we picked up one really good job almost immediately the

813
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:45,800
Speaker 3: Sydney which was a big redo which we're about to

814
00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:49,680
Speaker 3: we're about to open the stage three in about two months,

815
00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:53,040
Speaker 3: which is we've got three holes to do it in

816
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:56,200
Speaker 3: stage four. So it was so we're opening sort of

817
00:44:56,239 --> 00:44:59,120
Speaker 3: five holes in a month. So we got that job

818
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:02,319
Speaker 3: and we sort of bombing along and got a thing more.

819
00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:04,160
Speaker 3: You know, we beat Greg Norman to get a big

820
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:05,160
Speaker 3: commission to beat.

821
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:08,799
Speaker 2: H to read a broad camp, which is the best

822
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:13,319
Speaker 2: it's inland course in Australia. So that was a nice

823
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:17,920
Speaker 2: job to get. You know, we've done pretty well since.

824
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:21,600
Speaker 2: Really I think we've done some good work with I

825
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:33,759
Speaker 2: mean really Pine. If I think about our business, I

826
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:36,360
Speaker 2: mean that would underrate the tremendous talents of Mark and

827
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:39,239
Speaker 2: Ashley who were I mean Jeff one day a few

828
00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:41,359
Speaker 2: years ago came to me and said, screwing these guys.

829
00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:46,240
Speaker 2: So yeah, you look at every.

830
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:51,640
Speaker 3: Really good design business around the world now and whether

831
00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:54,280
Speaker 3: it's Skill Hands or Tom Dak or Bill Corn Ben Crunchaw,

832
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:56,640
Speaker 3: but there are really talented people who work for those

833
00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:59,319
Speaker 3: guys who who make them and.

834
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:00,399
Speaker 2: Us all look good.

835
00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:06,200
Speaker 3: So it'll be an incredibly simplistic thing to look at

836
00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:08,920
Speaker 3: the names of the people at the top of the

837
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:11,439
Speaker 3: ladderhead and think they were the ones who were doing

838
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:13,080
Speaker 3: all the work and they were the ones that were.

839
00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:15,399
Speaker 2: Really responsible for the work, because it goes much deeper

840
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:18,239
Speaker 2: than that. Yeah, you know, if you spoke to Bill Coy,

841
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:20,480
Speaker 2: he would.

842
00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:23,680
Speaker 3: Tell you all the guys who make him look really good,

843
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:27,520
Speaker 3: and he's you know, I think you can make an

844
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:30,440
Speaker 3: argument that Bill is one of the great designers of

845
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:33,000
Speaker 3: all time, you know, if not the greatest.

846
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:34,920
Speaker 2: You know, I think at this point if you were

847
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:35,200
Speaker 2: going to.

848
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:38,959
Speaker 3: Put one guy up against Kenzie and telling Harson Roster

849
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:41,040
Speaker 3: and then it would be Bill core because he's a

850
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:44,200
Speaker 3: you know, look at the court the causes that he

851
00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:48,040
Speaker 3: and Ben have done that they've really transformed the modern game,

852
00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:51,000
Speaker 3: I think, and Santells was a breakthrough golf course.

853
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:53,279
Speaker 2: It showed everyone what to do.

854
00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:57,040
Speaker 3: And you know, any modern arctor who hasn't studied the Santeless,

855
00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:00,880
Speaker 3: you know, their educations to fish in one sense, and

856
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:03,200
Speaker 3: you know, I was lucky enough to pay Sam Valley,

857
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:05,920
Speaker 3: which is the new course I've just done out in Wisconsin.

858
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:08,800
Speaker 3: And you know, in some ways I was talking to

859
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:12,560
Speaker 3: Mike about Mirke Cocking about today, was you know, in

860
00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:15,960
Speaker 3: some ways that's when you talk about con cruential courses.

861
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:18,239
Speaker 3: It's you could you could say, well, they're all kind

862
00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:21,879
Speaker 3: of the same, but in a sense they are, but yeah,

863
00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:22,440
Speaker 3: they're all the same.

864
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:27,400
Speaker 2: They're just all great and yeah you can recognize that

865
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:29,040
Speaker 2: look and the type of golf they like and the

866
00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:32,520
Speaker 2: type of golf they build. You know, if you were

867
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:34,480
Speaker 2: going to be critical of them, which I'm certainly not,

868
00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:36,680
Speaker 2: you could say, well you've seen one, you've seen a

869
00:47:36,719 --> 00:47:39,560
Speaker 2: few of them, but every single course you go to, well,

870
00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:42,759
Speaker 2: well you can see that, Bill, I've done it. But

871
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:44,879
Speaker 2: they're all.

872
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:47,799
Speaker 3: Tremendous golf courses. And you can say the same about

873
00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:51,880
Speaker 3: Alison McKenzie. Really, I mean Augusta and people talk about,

874
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:56,000
Speaker 3: you know, there's this stupid line in Australia that such

875
00:47:56,040 --> 00:47:59,160
Speaker 3: and such a golf course as Australia's Augusta, And it

876
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:02,040
Speaker 3: used to be raw because because it was Hellion, it

877
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:05,320
Speaker 3: had pine trees and it was There's a course in

878
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:08,479
Speaker 3: northern New South Wales that people called Australia's Augusta because

879
00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:10,759
Speaker 3: it's got it's got green grass on it.

880
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:11,239
Speaker 2: I think, but.

881
00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:17,439
Speaker 3: You know, I mean, you know, as Tom Doug said,

882
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:21,840
Speaker 3: Gus Royal Melbourne is the course Augusta wants to be,

883
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:26,960
Speaker 3: So Augusta is almost America's rural Melbourns.

884
00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:29,719
Speaker 2: That's the way I kind of look at it. But

885
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:35,560
Speaker 2: you know, the lessons of.

886
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:41,160
Speaker 3: Golfers only got golf design a timeless. Really, I mean

887
00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:43,120
Speaker 3: you look at Royal Melbourne or Gusta and Standrews and

888
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:46,799
Speaker 3: I think, people, you know, the guys who are doing

889
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:49,279
Speaker 3: really good work now look look at those courses and

890
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:52,120
Speaker 3: study them and understand them and try and replicate the

891
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:55,320
Speaker 3: things that make those courses great and the great modern

892
00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:58,160
Speaker 3: courses of throwbacks.

893
00:48:57,680 --> 00:48:58,080
Speaker 2: To that era.

894
00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:03,439
Speaker 1: Really, yeah, I think I I echo your thoughts about

895
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:09,200
Speaker 1: Corn Crenshaw. You know, sand Valley was unbelievable. That's a

896
00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:12,399
Speaker 1: great new golf course. And then I just got done

897
00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:15,960
Speaker 1: playing stream Song Red and I thought that was fantastic.

898
00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:19,879
Speaker 1: I mean the way they I just love the way

899
00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:23,880
Speaker 1: they are able to blend playability. And then you know,

900
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:27,840
Speaker 1: I noticed like all the you know, it's all about angles,

901
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:31,440
Speaker 1: and you know, being the ideal line for somebody that's

902
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:35,160
Speaker 1: looking to score is always along. You know, there's a

903
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:38,160
Speaker 1: risk to taking that line and you can always sail

904
00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:41,480
Speaker 1: out right, but then you have just usually a very

905
00:49:41,719 --> 00:49:45,560
Speaker 1: very difficult shot to get back and you know, to

906
00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:50,440
Speaker 1: have a birdie chance. And I just it's amazing when

907
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:53,120
Speaker 1: you start to play them and you start to realize, like,

908
00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:55,880
Speaker 1: you know, the ideal line on this hole is a

909
00:49:56,160 --> 00:49:59,239
Speaker 1: you know, four hundred and eighty yard Part four is

910
00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:02,680
Speaker 1: right hugging a you know, it's hugging the left side

911
00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:05,920
Speaker 1: of the fairway where there's a thirty foot bunker, you know,

912
00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:09,239
Speaker 1: and sure you've got sixty yards the bail out right,

913
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:12,160
Speaker 1: but then you you've got it just an awful angle

914
00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:15,600
Speaker 1: into a green that slopes away and it's just brilliant.

915
00:50:15,719 --> 00:50:19,239
Speaker 1: It's uh, you know, it's it's it's it's special. You

916
00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:23,520
Speaker 1: know when you can start to see that, yeah, and it's.

917
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:27,279
Speaker 2: Not I would be the first tom. I mean, this

918
00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:28,919
Speaker 2: is not rocket science. This stuff a moment.

919
00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:32,399
Speaker 3: It's just replicating the sentiment color n All the road

920
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:36,200
Speaker 3: holes and Andrews or Yeah, it's not you know, it's

921
00:50:36,239 --> 00:50:37,640
Speaker 3: not that they've discovered anything new.

922
00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:39,239
Speaker 2: It's just you know, they put it.

923
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:42,560
Speaker 3: Beautifully on the ground, and you know, they choose projects

924
00:50:42,560 --> 00:50:45,200
Speaker 3: where the land is great that they just build great

925
00:50:45,239 --> 00:50:48,239
Speaker 3: golf and it's not anything genius or anything new. It's

926
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:51,400
Speaker 3: just you know, it's just beautiful golf they building and

927
00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:53,960
Speaker 3: it's great fun to play in. Yeah, I mean, Fry's

928
00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:55,960
Speaker 3: Heads a tremendous golf of course. I've payed there a

929
00:50:56,000 --> 00:50:58,120
Speaker 3: couple of times, and it's a it's a beautiful place

930
00:50:58,200 --> 00:51:01,920
Speaker 3: to play golf. And I wonder whether they really care about,

931
00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:04,080
Speaker 3: you know, the modern young player, who's.

932
00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:06,480
Speaker 2: The both thrown twenty yards. I mean, you know, you know,

933
00:51:06,520 --> 00:51:07,080
Speaker 2: I suspeak.

934
00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:08,719
Speaker 3: Bill Will throws hands up and say, well, I glad

935
00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:10,719
Speaker 3: I'm not trying to design golf course with those guys,

936
00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:15,239
Speaker 3: because you know, as Jeff said many times, he said,

937
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:16,920
Speaker 3: why would you want to design a course for us?

938
00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:18,799
Speaker 2: Becaus no one will want to play it? That's true.

939
00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:21,239
Speaker 2: Who wants to play a golfer? Of course? That's going

940
00:51:21,320 --> 00:51:23,400
Speaker 2: to test those guys because.

941
00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:25,279
Speaker 3: No one else can play it, and who wants to

942
00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:27,120
Speaker 3: play a golf course, whether I have Tea's back there

943
00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:30,000
Speaker 3: that are eighty yards back and everything's out of scale

944
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:33,279
Speaker 3: and nothing seems quite right because of these you know,

945
00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:35,200
Speaker 3: where do we play from them? I mean, it's just,

946
00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:38,600
Speaker 3: you know, again, it goes back to the disaster of

947
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:40,279
Speaker 3: the ball and what it's done to the game.

948
00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:42,520
Speaker 2: And you know, I kind of like the fact that

949
00:51:42,640 --> 00:51:46,120
Speaker 2: Mike Kaiser and Bill and Ben and you know, Gil

950
00:51:46,960 --> 00:51:49,520
Speaker 2: don't really care about how.

951
00:51:51,120 --> 00:51:54,600
Speaker 3: You know, the the young modern strong player plays the

952
00:51:54,680 --> 00:51:58,440
Speaker 3: game because it's not you know, they're not designing courses

953
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:01,120
Speaker 3: for those, because they're designing fun courses for the rest

954
00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:03,560
Speaker 3: of people to play golf. But but I wasn't the

955
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:05,480
Speaker 3: game would be more fun for the young kids if

956
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:07,840
Speaker 3: they could play the golf course is much more like

957
00:52:07,920 --> 00:52:08,320
Speaker 3: the way.

958
00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:13,239
Speaker 2: We played them, but they can't because you got ready

959
00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:15,040
Speaker 2: straining editor again, man, it was a it was a

960
00:52:15,120 --> 00:52:18,360
Speaker 2: pitch and put final, really, so.

961
00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:23,320
Speaker 1: We got we got a ton of Twitter questions and

962
00:52:23,719 --> 00:52:26,680
Speaker 1: I definitely want to get to them because you know,

963
00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:29,960
Speaker 1: we just got a lot of great ones here, so

964
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:33,520
Speaker 1: uh and a lot of them are based around architecture,

965
00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:36,680
Speaker 1: So I think it'd be good to dive in here

966
00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:39,920
Speaker 1: and it can. Some of them are on your projects.

967
00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:46,640
Speaker 1: So from Tony dear, what's the latest on seven Mile

968
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:50,040
Speaker 1: Beach and what's the schedule at Shady Oaks?

969
00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:54,479
Speaker 3: Well, seven mops is, of course in Hobo we're talking about.

970
00:52:54,760 --> 00:52:57,600
Speaker 3: So you know, it's one of those things that you

971
00:52:57,760 --> 00:52:59,239
Speaker 3: just kind of sit and wait and you hope that

972
00:52:59,560 --> 00:53:00,960
Speaker 3: the guys going to do what's going to do it,

973
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:04,520
Speaker 3: And I think we're all pretty hopefully is so we're

974
00:53:04,560 --> 00:53:08,520
Speaker 3: sitting and waiting and waiting for the client to say, yeah,

975
00:53:08,600 --> 00:53:11,000
Speaker 3: let's go and do it. So that's where that one's

976
00:53:11,040 --> 00:53:18,399
Speaker 3: At Shady Oaks, we're doing the Hogan's car little practice course,

977
00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:22,240
Speaker 3: little nine hole course in the middle of the golf course.

978
00:53:22,040 --> 00:53:24,320
Speaker 2: Where Hogan used to go and practice, which was a

979
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:27,000
Speaker 2: really rudimentary part three course with one short Part four

980
00:53:27,080 --> 00:53:30,760
Speaker 2: and just a little basic ground greens with shapeless bumpers,

981
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:34,560
Speaker 2: and so we did three holes last year.

982
00:53:35,640 --> 00:53:40,880
Speaker 3: As we speak, we're shaping the the six remaining holes.

983
00:53:42,280 --> 00:53:44,799
Speaker 3: So it's kind of a there with some really cool

984
00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:47,440
Speaker 3: I mean I mean nothing sort of flashy bunkers, some

985
00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:48,279
Speaker 3: well shaped.

986
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:53,799
Speaker 2: Bunkers and cool greens, some with the idea that it's

987
00:53:53,840 --> 00:53:55,280
Speaker 2: still a nine hole Part three course.

988
00:53:55,360 --> 00:53:58,239
Speaker 3: But you can really go out and throw a bag

989
00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:01,080
Speaker 3: of balls down anywhere and play great shots to any green.

990
00:54:01,160 --> 00:54:04,120
Speaker 3: And you can play great holes from wherever you choose

991
00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:06,960
Speaker 3: to play them from. So the knife was a kind

992
00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:09,480
Speaker 3: of a path three across the across the kind of

993
00:54:09,520 --> 00:54:12,520
Speaker 3: a gouged out, sort of creaky baranca thing in front

994
00:54:12,520 --> 00:54:15,279
Speaker 3: of the green. But we're building a tea on the

995
00:54:15,360 --> 00:54:18,600
Speaker 3: other side of the fourth fairway to create what is

996
00:54:18,640 --> 00:54:20,759
Speaker 3: a really cool three and a sixty yard part four

997
00:54:21,160 --> 00:54:23,839
Speaker 3: with a great you know, perfectly placed for a bank

998
00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:26,600
Speaker 3: and a really cool hold of place. And so when

999
00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:28,719
Speaker 3: the course is not busy, you know, if you want

1000
00:54:28,719 --> 00:54:31,879
Speaker 3: to go out and practice your drives or go play

1001
00:54:31,920 --> 00:54:33,640
Speaker 3: a hole in a really cool hole, you can do that.

1002
00:54:35,040 --> 00:54:39,440
Speaker 3: So the idea is to have the golf limited only

1003
00:54:39,480 --> 00:54:43,239
Speaker 3: by your imagination. Really, so throw balls down anywhere and

1004
00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:46,719
Speaker 3: heat shots to any green. And plus it's the course

1005
00:54:46,760 --> 00:54:48,080
Speaker 3: where you could take.

1006
00:54:49,640 --> 00:54:51,960
Speaker 2: Any six or seven or eight year old kid and

1007
00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:53,000
Speaker 2: teach them how to play golf.

1008
00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:56,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you know you can.

1009
00:54:57,800 --> 00:55:01,400
Speaker 3: There's no reason why you couldn't learn to be a

1010
00:55:01,520 --> 00:55:04,880
Speaker 3: tour class player playing only those nine holes. But because

1011
00:55:04,880 --> 00:55:06,439
Speaker 3: there will be every shot you can imagine to play.

1012
00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:08,960
Speaker 3: I think that a parts from playing shots out of

1013
00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:11,880
Speaker 3: long grass, which there'll be none of that, so you

1014
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:13,239
Speaker 3: might have to learn how to play out of long

1015
00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:16,640
Speaker 3: grass by going somewhere else. But but you know, it's

1016
00:55:16,680 --> 00:55:20,280
Speaker 3: a it's a it's a really cool place to practice.

1017
00:55:20,280 --> 00:55:22,560
Speaker 3: It in a cool place to play. And then they

1018
00:55:22,719 --> 00:55:25,600
Speaker 3: close the main course to rebuild it in two thousand

1019
00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:31,160
Speaker 3: and I think nineteen is the plans. So they would

1020
00:55:31,200 --> 00:55:32,719
Speaker 3: just shut the main course for a year and we'll

1021
00:55:33,160 --> 00:55:33,640
Speaker 3: rebuild it.

1022
00:55:34,200 --> 00:55:34,719
Speaker 1: That's cool.

1023
00:55:34,960 --> 00:55:37,359
Speaker 2: So it's a you know, it's a cool place to work.

1024
00:55:37,400 --> 00:55:41,040
Speaker 3: I mean Ben Hogan died, he left, he left every

1025
00:55:41,320 --> 00:55:43,200
Speaker 3: club he had to the club pro there, Mike right.

1026
00:55:43,280 --> 00:55:46,200
Speaker 3: I mean there are nine hundred clubs lying around that

1027
00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:47,840
Speaker 3: well not lying around that golf cup in in.

1028
00:55:47,920 --> 00:55:51,000
Speaker 2: Racks and sitting around the pro shop. And it's such an.

1029
00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:53,560
Speaker 3: Amazing place to go really and just look around at

1030
00:55:53,600 --> 00:55:55,080
Speaker 3: the history of that place is incredible.

1031
00:55:55,120 --> 00:55:57,600
Speaker 2: So it's a it's a fun place to work in.

1032
00:55:57,640 --> 00:56:00,759
Speaker 3: Bruce Devian's a member there who was one of my

1033
00:56:01,120 --> 00:56:04,000
Speaker 3: you along with Peter Thompson, he was the you know,

1034
00:56:04,239 --> 00:56:06,080
Speaker 3: they were my two heroes when when I was.

1035
00:56:06,120 --> 00:56:06,960
Speaker 2: A twelve year old kid.

1036
00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:09,520
Speaker 3: I mean you would go and watch they were the

1037
00:56:09,560 --> 00:56:11,720
Speaker 3: two guys to watch in Australia play golf and definitely

1038
00:56:11,719 --> 00:56:13,400
Speaker 3: would come out and play in Australia every year. And

1039
00:56:13,480 --> 00:56:15,440
Speaker 3: I watched him play a lot of golf and I

1040
00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:17,400
Speaker 3: played with him when I was an amateur. And the

1041
00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:20,879
Speaker 3: Austrain Open ten years after I first watched him play

1042
00:56:20,880 --> 00:56:24,040
Speaker 3: in this Train Open at Kingston Heathen, So you know,

1043
00:56:24,120 --> 00:56:26,120
Speaker 3: it's kind of cool to go back there and meet

1044
00:56:26,200 --> 00:56:28,319
Speaker 3: him as a I want to say, he's an old man.

1045
00:56:28,360 --> 00:56:30,440
Speaker 3: He's probably eighty years old, but he looks tremendous for

1046
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:33,920
Speaker 3: his age. And you know, it's a funny journey through

1047
00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:37,800
Speaker 3: life that you've kind of come across someone who it

1048
00:56:37,960 --> 00:56:40,200
Speaker 3: was your boyhood hero really and here he is a

1049
00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:43,120
Speaker 3: remember the golf cup that you're going to dig up

1050
00:56:43,120 --> 00:56:47,920
Speaker 3: and rebuild. So in a sense it's fun and in

1051
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:50,239
Speaker 3: a sense it's a pretty big responsibility not to mess

1052
00:56:50,280 --> 00:56:50,520
Speaker 3: it up.

1053
00:56:51,520 --> 00:56:55,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, that's so cool. I love the concept

1054
00:56:55,680 --> 00:56:59,840
Speaker 1: with the nine hole course. I think that is exactly

1055
00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:04,160
Speaker 1: what golf should be. I was talking to somebody who

1056
00:57:04,320 --> 00:57:07,440
Speaker 1: runs a first D program and I was saying, how

1057
00:57:07,719 --> 00:57:11,319
Speaker 1: you know their facilities should just be places with wall

1058
00:57:11,360 --> 00:57:15,360
Speaker 1: to wall fairways and a few greens bunkers and just

1059
00:57:15,520 --> 00:57:17,640
Speaker 1: let the kids learn how to get the ball in

1060
00:57:17,720 --> 00:57:19,800
Speaker 1: the hole and tee it up wherever they want and

1061
00:57:19,880 --> 00:57:21,960
Speaker 1: play you know, golf that way.

1062
00:57:23,160 --> 00:57:27,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's really the dream practice fell I mean,

1063
00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:33,200
Speaker 3: Susan member there and you know we from the seventh

1064
00:57:33,280 --> 00:57:36,320
Speaker 3: t You can hit straight so a seven nine shot,

1065
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:38,040
Speaker 3: but you can you can stay on that tee and

1066
00:57:38,120 --> 00:57:40,440
Speaker 3: hit a long drawer into the second green and a

1067
00:57:40,560 --> 00:57:44,200
Speaker 3: long fade into the third green. One hundred and seventy

1068
00:57:44,280 --> 00:57:47,680
Speaker 3: or eighty yarch shots and ninety yuch shots, so you

1069
00:57:47,760 --> 00:57:51,320
Speaker 3: can stand there for hours and practice, you know, the

1070
00:57:51,480 --> 00:57:54,840
Speaker 3: three basic shots in golf, the straight shot, the drawer shut,

1071
00:57:54,880 --> 00:57:57,000
Speaker 3: and the fade shot. And yeah, you know you're playing

1072
00:57:57,000 --> 00:57:58,120
Speaker 3: shots in the beautiful grains.

1073
00:57:58,160 --> 00:57:59,920
Speaker 2: It's a beautiful environment and a tree.

1074
00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:02,760
Speaker 3: As I said, there's no reason why, you know, a

1075
00:58:02,840 --> 00:58:06,560
Speaker 3: kid couldn't learn to be a scratch player just playing

1076
00:58:06,600 --> 00:58:08,760
Speaker 3: that nine golf course because they'll be every shot they want.

1077
00:58:09,960 --> 00:58:17,840
Speaker 1: That's cool. So a question from Nick Mackie, what's the

1078
00:58:18,160 --> 00:58:21,320
Speaker 1: trend in modern design you'd like to see it go away?

1079
00:58:22,280 --> 00:58:28,160
Speaker 1: And what's your favorite course in Austria and as outside

1080
00:58:28,160 --> 00:58:31,240
Speaker 1: of Melbourne, So I assume that's Australia, right.

1081
00:58:33,480 --> 00:58:35,480
Speaker 3: The trend in modern design you'd like to see you

1082
00:58:35,520 --> 00:58:41,120
Speaker 3: go away, Well, I'm huge on the on modern design.

1083
00:58:42,680 --> 00:58:46,360
Speaker 3: I think there's you could argue that Sint Sandels has

1084
00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:48,880
Speaker 3: been the most productive period of golf courses on ever,

1085
00:58:49,720 --> 00:58:53,120
Speaker 3: perhaps even better than the Golden Age from what nineteen

1086
00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:57,920
Speaker 3: thirteen to nine thirty augusta really, so you know, certainly

1087
00:58:57,960 --> 00:58:58,840
Speaker 3: I think it rivals it.

1088
00:58:59,320 --> 00:59:03,840
Speaker 2: So I'm huge on the the quality of modern design.

1089
00:59:04,040 --> 00:59:08,560
Speaker 2: I mean, I think that in terms of modern television golf,

1090
00:59:08,600 --> 00:59:12,080
Speaker 2: the curse of long grass. I just I don't think

1091
00:59:12,160 --> 00:59:14,520
Speaker 2: that golf is best played out out of long grass.

1092
00:59:14,720 --> 00:59:18,040
Speaker 2: I mean, it's what to a prose want because they

1093
00:59:18,080 --> 00:59:19,720
Speaker 2: want predictability of punishment.

1094
00:59:20,560 --> 00:59:22,840
Speaker 3: They want to know that if someone is the ball

1095
00:59:22,880 --> 00:59:25,600
Speaker 3: off line, they get the same punishment they do for

1096
00:59:25,680 --> 00:59:29,080
Speaker 3: the same shot. And you know, I mean, golf's much

1097
00:59:29,160 --> 00:59:32,400
Speaker 3: more fun when the punishment is random. And dealing with

1098
00:59:32,480 --> 00:59:35,800
Speaker 3: the unfairness of golf or the lucky break or the

1099
00:59:36,280 --> 00:59:38,720
Speaker 3: good the good or the bad break is I mean,

1100
00:59:38,760 --> 00:59:40,800
Speaker 3: that's the whole mental challenge of the game is So

1101
00:59:41,840 --> 00:59:45,600
Speaker 3: you know, I think that pro golfers sanitized the game

1102
00:59:45,680 --> 00:59:48,480
Speaker 3: down to the point where you know, it's really a

1103
00:59:48,560 --> 00:59:51,640
Speaker 3: test of execution as opposed to a test of thought

1104
00:59:51,720 --> 00:59:52,640
Speaker 3: and executions.

1105
00:59:52,800 --> 00:59:55,200
Speaker 2: So modern televised golf.

1106
00:59:55,800 --> 00:59:57,040
Speaker 3: You know, if I was going to change that, I

1107
00:59:57,280 --> 01:00:02,520
Speaker 3: would change that the emphasis on fanness and the use

1108
01:00:02,560 --> 01:00:06,320
Speaker 3: of long graster, but to create an equity of punishment,

1109
01:00:06,320 --> 01:00:08,000
Speaker 3: because I don't think the best courses do that.

1110
01:00:08,640 --> 01:00:10,400
Speaker 2: I think golf is much more random than that.

1111
01:00:11,640 --> 01:00:17,320
Speaker 3: My favorite course in Australia outside of Melbourne, well probably

1112
01:00:17,760 --> 01:00:20,880
Speaker 3: I'm in the course of Bamburgle, the Bill Cause course

1113
01:00:20,920 --> 01:00:21,920
Speaker 3: of Lost Farm, and the course we.

1114
01:00:21,960 --> 01:00:24,320
Speaker 2: Did with Tom Doker. Of course I've got a great

1115
01:00:24,440 --> 01:00:34,040
Speaker 2: fan affection four. Yeah, the courses outside of tricky.

1116
01:00:34,400 --> 01:00:37,040
Speaker 3: That's a tricky question for me because we're actually we've

1117
01:00:37,080 --> 01:00:39,280
Speaker 3: been lucky enough to work in the best course in Perth,

1118
01:00:39,320 --> 01:00:41,080
Speaker 3: the best course in Brisbane.

1119
01:00:41,960 --> 01:00:44,840
Speaker 2: And one of the best two or three courses in Sydney.

1120
01:00:44,880 --> 01:00:46,840
Speaker 2: So it's difficult to answer that question with that nominally

1121
01:00:46,920 --> 01:00:53,960
Speaker 2: one of our own courses. But yeah, let me pick

1122
01:00:54,000 --> 01:00:58,360
Speaker 2: a course in New Zealand apart from parap around Beach,

1123
01:00:59,520 --> 01:01:00,360
Speaker 2: which is a course.

1124
01:01:00,200 --> 01:01:02,480
Speaker 3: I like Russell did there's a really cool course called

1125
01:01:02,600 --> 01:01:05,920
Speaker 3: Arrowtown in Queenstown. Now Queenstown has become a bit of

1126
01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:11,720
Speaker 3: a center of high end, expensive golf. I think the

1127
01:01:12,760 --> 01:01:17,440
Speaker 3: Jack's Point and the Hills are probably green fees somewhere

1128
01:01:17,480 --> 01:01:20,040
Speaker 3: between two three or four hundred. I think the Hills

1129
01:01:20,160 --> 01:01:23,000
Speaker 3: is five hundred dollars, but Jack's Point might be two hundred.

1130
01:01:23,840 --> 01:01:26,240
Speaker 3: But there's a really cool little course called Arrowtown which

1131
01:01:26,240 --> 01:01:28,280
Speaker 3: is right down the road from the Hills, which is

1132
01:01:28,320 --> 01:01:32,480
Speaker 3: about forty bucks a round, and it's a tremendous little course.

1133
01:01:32,520 --> 01:01:35,240
Speaker 3: So anyone who goes to the South Island of New

1134
01:01:35,360 --> 01:01:38,880
Speaker 3: Zealand got of Arrowtown. It's one of the most unique

1135
01:01:38,920 --> 01:01:41,240
Speaker 3: golf courses in the world. So if I was to

1136
01:01:41,320 --> 01:01:44,000
Speaker 3: pick a favorite golf course outside of Melbourne in Australia,

1137
01:01:44,400 --> 01:01:46,680
Speaker 3: let me pick Arrowtown in New Zealand, which is kind

1138
01:01:46,720 --> 01:01:50,080
Speaker 3: of cheating. But one who happens to go to Queenstown

1139
01:01:50,160 --> 01:01:52,200
Speaker 3: do not miss playing an Arrowtown because you can get

1140
01:01:52,960 --> 01:01:55,400
Speaker 3: you can get ten pounds ten rounds for the price

1141
01:01:55,440 --> 01:01:58,600
Speaker 3: of one, and I promise you you'll have ten times

1142
01:01:58,640 --> 01:01:59,040
Speaker 3: more fun.

1143
01:01:59,120 --> 01:02:04,280
Speaker 2: And it's a really you know, some much a word

1144
01:02:05,120 --> 01:02:08,320
Speaker 2: overused word unique, but it's a truly unique golf course

1145
01:02:08,360 --> 01:02:10,040
Speaker 2: in the you know, it's a course that everyone should see.

1146
01:02:10,560 --> 01:02:11,560
Speaker 1: That's that's awesome.

1147
01:02:11,720 --> 01:02:12,160
Speaker 2: I love that.

1148
01:02:12,280 --> 01:02:15,360
Speaker 1: It's a great value. It's finding those gems are are

1149
01:02:16,080 --> 01:02:18,800
Speaker 1: the most fun. You know, playing the best courses of

1150
01:02:18,920 --> 01:02:22,520
Speaker 1: the are great, but when you find like a really great,

1151
01:02:22,680 --> 01:02:26,680
Speaker 1: little unique gem that nobody knows about, that's really great.

1152
01:02:27,360 --> 01:02:30,520
Speaker 1: Is the I think that's the most fun about discovery

1153
01:02:30,680 --> 01:02:38,720
Speaker 1: golf courses. Let's go with uh, which course would you

1154
01:02:39,240 --> 01:02:42,200
Speaker 1: most like to renovate or restore.

1155
01:02:46,320 --> 01:02:55,400
Speaker 2: In Australia, anywhere, anywhere? Anywhere? Well, let me that's another

1156
01:02:55,440 --> 01:02:56,040
Speaker 2: interesting question.

1157
01:02:57,000 --> 01:02:59,880
Speaker 3: If someone had asked me that question, Well, people did

1158
01:02:59,880 --> 01:03:02,919
Speaker 3: that asked me that question often, and always the answer

1159
01:03:03,000 --> 01:03:07,560
Speaker 3: was rayal camera. So normally my answer would be rayal camera,

1160
01:03:07,600 --> 01:03:09,040
Speaker 3: except that we did get the chance to do that

1161
01:03:09,160 --> 01:03:10,760
Speaker 3: and we opened it.

1162
01:03:11,160 --> 01:03:13,640
Speaker 2: Jeff and I opened it the Monday of aus Train

1163
01:03:13,720 --> 01:03:18,680
Speaker 2: open this year, So that was always my stock answer,

1164
01:03:18,680 --> 01:03:23,720
Speaker 2: but we actually got to do that once. So it's

1165
01:03:23,720 --> 01:03:29,720
Speaker 2: a let me come back to that one.

1166
01:03:29,760 --> 01:03:32,240
Speaker 3: I'll think about it over the next five minutes and

1167
01:03:32,280 --> 01:03:35,880
Speaker 3: come back with a better answer than Because you know,

1168
01:03:36,280 --> 01:03:38,680
Speaker 3: all the all of the great courses in Britain that

1169
01:03:38,760 --> 01:03:42,440
Speaker 3: I really loved. There wasn't one that you ever went

1170
01:03:42,520 --> 01:03:44,120
Speaker 3: to and thought, wow, this would be a great course

1171
01:03:44,160 --> 01:03:46,680
Speaker 3: if you could only fix it. Yeah, yeah, you know,

1172
01:03:46,720 --> 01:03:49,720
Speaker 3: there were many examples in Australia of courses that I

1173
01:03:49,840 --> 01:03:51,560
Speaker 3: thought it would be a really good course if you

1174
01:03:51,640 --> 01:03:53,920
Speaker 3: could fix it, And we've been lucky enough to have

1175
01:03:54,000 --> 01:03:57,120
Speaker 3: the chance to fix a few of them. But not

1176
01:03:57,240 --> 01:03:59,240
Speaker 3: every member would say that, but you know I would

1177
01:03:59,320 --> 01:04:00,560
Speaker 3: use that fix adjective.

1178
01:04:01,360 --> 01:04:04,720
Speaker 2: But yeah, you go to Britain and you see.

1179
01:04:06,440 --> 01:04:09,480
Speaker 3: You have many great golf courses are in England and

1180
01:04:09,600 --> 01:04:12,240
Speaker 3: I think you know, I never crossed that. I never

1181
01:04:12,440 --> 01:04:15,360
Speaker 3: came across the course there where well perhaps one went

1182
01:04:15,440 --> 01:04:19,320
Speaker 3: Worth let me throw and Wentworth in there because wow

1183
01:04:19,400 --> 01:04:21,280
Speaker 3: that was a you know, Harry Cult course that.

1184
01:04:24,560 --> 01:04:29,000
Speaker 2: Got derailed. Yes, so we're not going to get the

1185
01:04:29,040 --> 01:04:31,080
Speaker 2: job that went with. But you know, I think if

1186
01:04:31,120 --> 01:04:32,800
Speaker 2: someone could for one of.

1187
01:04:34,600 --> 01:04:36,720
Speaker 3: Use for a better clich they make Wentworth great again,

1188
01:04:37,480 --> 01:04:38,520
Speaker 3: that would be a pretty cool.

1189
01:04:38,440 --> 01:04:41,080
Speaker 2: Job to do for someone. So someone's I'm not who's

1190
01:04:41,080 --> 01:04:41,320
Speaker 2: going to.

1191
01:04:41,320 --> 01:04:43,680
Speaker 3: Do that, but went with but would be in terms

1192
01:04:43,720 --> 01:04:46,120
Speaker 3: of English golf courses, that would be right off the

1193
01:04:46,160 --> 01:04:46,680
Speaker 3: top of the list.

1194
01:04:47,160 --> 01:04:50,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's you know, players don't even like playing there.

1195
01:04:50,360 --> 01:04:55,200
Speaker 1: It seems like. So here's a here's an interesting question

1196
01:04:57,200 --> 01:04:59,640
Speaker 1: from Chris. Why is it? And I know he goes

1197
01:04:59,720 --> 01:05:03,120
Speaker 1: down to Australia almost every year. Why is it that

1198
01:05:03,280 --> 01:05:07,000
Speaker 1: nowhere else can seem to replicate the Australian sand bunk

1199
01:05:07,520 --> 01:05:12,000
Speaker 1: belt bunkering and for those that don't know are familiar

1200
01:05:12,080 --> 01:05:15,440
Speaker 1: with it green, he says, greens bleeding right into the

1201
01:05:15,480 --> 01:05:18,520
Speaker 1: bunkers without fringe, and the faces of the bunkers are

1202
01:05:18,640 --> 01:05:19,080
Speaker 1: very hard.

1203
01:05:22,600 --> 01:05:28,000
Speaker 2: Well, you can replicate that. I think the taking of

1204
01:05:28,160 --> 01:05:32,440
Speaker 2: the very edges of the greens to the bunkers. I mean,

1205
01:05:32,560 --> 01:05:35,200
Speaker 2: certainly in loss of places you can do that, not everywhere.

1206
01:05:35,240 --> 01:05:37,640
Speaker 3: But the thing about SAMD bealt bunk I mean, I

1207
01:05:37,680 --> 01:05:40,960
Speaker 3: think it's a unique combination of the type of the

1208
01:05:41,080 --> 01:05:44,120
Speaker 3: sand and the soil that build out of it, and

1209
01:05:44,600 --> 01:05:50,120
Speaker 3: how the coach grass hold the lips together. But yeah,

1210
01:05:50,240 --> 01:05:51,760
Speaker 3: my answer to that question will be I don't think

1211
01:05:51,840 --> 01:05:55,000
Speaker 3: you want to. And I've seen people try and replicate

1212
01:05:55,080 --> 01:05:57,440
Speaker 3: SAMD belt bunkers in other places and it doesn't really work.

1213
01:05:57,840 --> 01:06:02,840
Speaker 3: I think Gil got really costin Rio and did a

1214
01:06:02,880 --> 01:06:06,160
Speaker 3: great job built beautiful bunkers, and that I know, he

1215
01:06:06,320 --> 01:06:08,040
Speaker 3: based a look at those bunkers, he based them on

1216
01:06:08,080 --> 01:06:10,880
Speaker 3: the Sandbelt bunkers, but he didn't try and you know,

1217
01:06:11,000 --> 01:06:14,200
Speaker 3: exactly replicate them, because I think attempts at trying to

1218
01:06:14,280 --> 01:06:17,680
Speaker 3: replicate that look, I mean, they all fail. You know,

1219
01:06:17,760 --> 01:06:21,440
Speaker 3: they just don't work very well. So I'm kind of

1220
01:06:21,880 --> 01:06:25,560
Speaker 3: a supporter of leaving Sampa bunkers to Melbourne and not

1221
01:06:25,640 --> 01:06:27,960
Speaker 3: trying to replicate that look because I think, you know,

1222
01:06:28,040 --> 01:06:30,720
Speaker 3: they really work well in Melbourne, don't work that well

1223
01:06:30,960 --> 01:06:33,280
Speaker 3: anywhere else, and perhaps you can kind of I mean,

1224
01:06:33,320 --> 01:06:35,360
Speaker 3: people try and build them and try and get that look,

1225
01:06:35,440 --> 01:06:37,080
Speaker 3: but it's never quite the same.

1226
01:06:37,200 --> 01:06:38,280
Speaker 2: So so I think that.

1227
01:06:39,760 --> 01:06:41,920
Speaker 3: You know, we don't try and replicate it anywhere else

1228
01:06:41,960 --> 01:06:45,480
Speaker 3: but in Melbourne, so we're pretty good at doing them,

1229
01:06:45,560 --> 01:06:47,600
Speaker 3: I think, so for other people to try and replicate

1230
01:06:47,640 --> 01:06:50,680
Speaker 3: them as not a great idea because it's very difficult

1231
01:06:50,680 --> 01:06:53,720
Speaker 3: to do and it never really works. Yeah, so you know,

1232
01:06:53,880 --> 01:06:55,960
Speaker 3: you know, I think you can replicate the principles of them,

1233
01:06:56,000 --> 01:06:59,000
Speaker 3: but trying to replicate the exact look doesn't really work.

1234
01:06:59,240 --> 01:07:02,280
Speaker 3: But one thing that's really you know works, I mean

1235
01:07:02,360 --> 01:07:06,680
Speaker 3: the Metropolitan right plays people marvel it the fact there

1236
01:07:06,760 --> 01:07:09,160
Speaker 3: is no no I mean literally no fringe at all,

1237
01:07:09,360 --> 01:07:12,000
Speaker 3: and where we rebuilding the.

1238
01:07:12,000 --> 01:07:14,919
Speaker 2: Two causes of peninsula now and you know, the edges

1239
01:07:14,920 --> 01:07:15,720
Speaker 2: of the greens.

1240
01:07:15,440 --> 01:07:17,040
Speaker 3: Go right to the very edge of the buckers and

1241
01:07:17,080 --> 01:07:19,280
Speaker 3: it makes it, you know, it makes it. It's a

1242
01:07:19,360 --> 01:07:23,000
Speaker 3: really cool feature and it works really well. But you

1243
01:07:23,080 --> 01:07:25,200
Speaker 3: don't see it anywhere else in the world really, and

1244
01:07:25,360 --> 01:07:29,120
Speaker 3: it's where it's possible to do it. It's really worth

1245
01:07:29,160 --> 01:07:29,520
Speaker 3: trying to do.

1246
01:07:30,400 --> 01:07:35,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's imagine a lot of the soil. It's so

1247
01:07:35,680 --> 01:07:40,560
Speaker 1: much goes into that. So let's let's do some kind

1248
01:07:40,600 --> 01:07:45,040
Speaker 1: of rapid fire questions that are parts of all these

1249
01:07:45,960 --> 01:07:51,000
Speaker 1: questions we've got here. So how do you like the

1250
01:07:51,080 --> 01:07:52,160
Speaker 1: template hors.

1251
01:07:55,920 --> 01:07:58,920
Speaker 3: H Well, I think every hole is a copy of something,

1252
01:08:00,120 --> 01:08:02,840
Speaker 3: you know, and if you're finding a really unique form

1253
01:08:02,920 --> 01:08:03,320
Speaker 3: of land.

1254
01:08:03,560 --> 01:08:05,920
Speaker 2: I mean I enjoyed, you know, the National Golf things.

1255
01:08:05,960 --> 01:08:08,840
Speaker 3: I suppose with the first template golf course, you know,

1256
01:08:08,880 --> 01:08:12,400
Speaker 3: with all those holes that McDonald went and copied from Britain's.

1257
01:08:12,560 --> 01:08:15,920
Speaker 3: So I think they work really well. You know, you know,

1258
01:08:15,960 --> 01:08:17,960
Speaker 3: if you do them well that they're tremendous to play.

1259
01:08:18,520 --> 01:08:23,360
Speaker 3: So you know the Queen is Dental dog Lang left

1260
01:08:23,360 --> 01:08:25,679
Speaker 3: hole in Australia is the seven enth at Royal Melbourne

1261
01:08:25,720 --> 01:08:28,840
Speaker 3: with the bunker on the inside corner and you know

1262
01:08:28,920 --> 01:08:32,519
Speaker 3: the big of the drive and you know the big

1263
01:08:32,600 --> 01:08:36,320
Speaker 3: barker coming across the front right of the green and

1264
01:08:36,439 --> 01:08:39,680
Speaker 3: the green where every every yard you drive away from

1265
01:08:39,760 --> 01:08:42,800
Speaker 3: the hazard on the on the left, you know a

1266
01:08:42,880 --> 01:08:45,439
Speaker 3: yard heart of the second shot and that.

1267
01:08:45,520 --> 01:08:48,479
Speaker 2: Hole is replicated all over Melbourne. The fifteenth of Mertropolitan,

1268
01:08:48,520 --> 01:08:49,479
Speaker 2: the second at Spring Valley.

1269
01:08:49,520 --> 01:08:53,160
Speaker 3: There are a whole bunch of holes in Melbourne, the

1270
01:08:53,320 --> 01:08:59,439
Speaker 3: replicas of the sevenenth at Royal Melbourne. So you know,

1271
01:08:59,479 --> 01:09:02,280
Speaker 3: I think if you're designing, I mean we're always thinking

1272
01:09:02,360 --> 01:09:05,120
Speaker 3: of holes we've played before and holes we like and

1273
01:09:05,160 --> 01:09:05,800
Speaker 3: holes that work.

1274
01:09:05,880 --> 01:09:11,840
Speaker 2: And yeah, so I think in terms of what we

1275
01:09:12,040 --> 01:09:12,799
Speaker 2: do and what other.

1276
01:09:12,840 --> 01:09:16,280
Speaker 3: Designers do, I think they're always replicating the principles of

1277
01:09:16,360 --> 01:09:20,400
Speaker 3: the great holes. So you know the road holds Andrews

1278
01:09:20,520 --> 01:09:25,320
Speaker 3: is you know, it's it's a dog into the right

1279
01:09:25,400 --> 01:09:27,439
Speaker 3: really with the bunk on the front left of the green.

1280
01:09:27,560 --> 01:09:31,760
Speaker 3: But you know it's really not much different from the

1281
01:09:32,320 --> 01:09:35,519
Speaker 3: you know to flip of the segment, well the segment

1282
01:09:35,560 --> 01:09:37,280
Speaker 3: that rule was the flip of the road hole. Really,

1283
01:09:37,680 --> 01:09:40,800
Speaker 3: you know, again it's driver it down the boundary line

1284
01:09:40,840 --> 01:09:42,640
Speaker 3: and every yard left of the boundary line you go

1285
01:09:43,080 --> 01:09:47,000
Speaker 3: a yard more problematic for second shots. So you know,

1286
01:09:47,000 --> 01:09:48,559
Speaker 3: it goes back to what we were talking about before

1287
01:09:48,560 --> 01:09:50,559
Speaker 3: about there being nothing new and golf courses on really

1288
01:09:50,720 --> 01:09:53,720
Speaker 3: And I played of course this morning at portsy which

1289
01:09:53,800 --> 01:09:56,560
Speaker 3: is a really fun course out of Melbourne with some

1290
01:09:57,040 --> 01:10:00,920
Speaker 3: incredibly unique landforms and holes you won't see see anywhere else.

1291
01:10:01,000 --> 01:10:04,400
Speaker 3: But in the end, if you've got a standard ish

1292
01:10:04,479 --> 01:10:06,120
Speaker 3: sort of piece of land, then you're always going to

1293
01:10:06,160 --> 01:10:10,639
Speaker 3: replicate the principles of the great holes. So don't play

1294
01:10:10,680 --> 01:10:11,799
Speaker 3: holes work pretty well really.

1295
01:10:11,720 --> 01:10:14,880
Speaker 1: For me, I agree. I mean it's you get in

1296
01:10:14,960 --> 01:10:17,400
Speaker 1: trouble when you try and reinvent the wheel, right.

1297
01:10:18,160 --> 01:10:19,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah you do.

1298
01:10:21,560 --> 01:10:27,600
Speaker 1: So what who would you say is the most underappreciated architect.

1299
01:10:31,280 --> 01:10:35,240
Speaker 3: While in Australia, like Russell was, who was Australian Open champion.

1300
01:10:36,080 --> 01:10:38,760
Speaker 3: He was a wealthy kind of grazier really and he

1301
01:10:38,880 --> 01:10:43,040
Speaker 3: worked in politics a little bit, but he was he

1302
01:10:43,240 --> 01:10:46,800
Speaker 3: was Mackenzie's partner down in Australia. He did the East

1303
01:10:46,880 --> 01:10:50,080
Speaker 3: Course at real moment yarra yarra, like carrying up and

1304
01:10:51,160 --> 01:10:53,800
Speaker 3: power param in New Zealand's so he didn't do many

1305
01:10:53,880 --> 01:10:56,640
Speaker 3: golf courses. He was really a part time architect in

1306
01:10:56,680 --> 01:11:01,320
Speaker 3: a sense. But here's some tremendous work down here. So

1307
01:11:01,960 --> 01:11:03,920
Speaker 3: you know, Russell was great in this part of the world.

1308
01:11:03,960 --> 01:11:06,800
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm not sure if Tom Simpson is underrated,

1309
01:11:06,880 --> 01:11:11,280
Speaker 3: but I mean more Fontaine is. You know, it would

1310
01:11:11,280 --> 01:11:16,240
Speaker 3: be one of my top five or ten days out

1311
01:11:16,280 --> 01:11:18,960
Speaker 3: playing golf in the world. It's an incredible golf course

1312
01:11:19,040 --> 01:11:25,400
Speaker 3: that Simpson did. So Simpson's perhaps is you know, somebody

1313
01:11:25,400 --> 01:11:29,519
Speaker 3: who doesn't get to credit for the greatness of his work.

1314
01:11:29,600 --> 01:11:32,519
Speaker 3: But you know, I always love playing his courses.

1315
01:11:32,840 --> 01:11:35,760
Speaker 1: I heard there's a new book out about Simpson that's

1316
01:11:35,880 --> 01:11:36,320
Speaker 1: really good.

1317
01:11:36,600 --> 01:11:39,000
Speaker 2: I haven't Yeah there is, Yeah, it's good. Yeah.

1318
01:11:41,400 --> 01:11:45,160
Speaker 1: What of the courses you've designed, which are the most

1319
01:11:45,680 --> 01:11:48,640
Speaker 1: which are you most proud of? And that's from als Or.

1320
01:11:53,439 --> 01:11:56,439
Speaker 3: Well, we did Bamboogo with Tom and Tom Doak, and

1321
01:11:56,479 --> 01:11:59,839
Speaker 3: I think, you know, that's been a pretty successful development

1322
01:11:59,840 --> 01:12:00,880
Speaker 3: and fun course to play.

1323
01:12:00,920 --> 01:12:04,200
Speaker 2: But the course we've done on our own, that's I mean,

1324
01:12:04,280 --> 01:12:06,120
Speaker 2: mostly our work's been read on. We've done a couple.

1325
01:12:06,479 --> 01:12:08,920
Speaker 3: I mean rand Feller was a new golf course and

1326
01:12:09,320 --> 01:12:11,880
Speaker 3: Royal Queensland was basically a new golf course. He lost

1327
01:12:12,560 --> 01:12:16,400
Speaker 3: six holes and we basically rebuilt the entire golf course

1328
01:12:16,439 --> 01:12:20,559
Speaker 3: on the original piece of land. But you know, it's

1329
01:12:20,560 --> 01:12:22,519
Speaker 3: easy to just to sort of alert to the last

1330
01:12:22,600 --> 01:12:25,360
Speaker 3: job you did. But I thought we did a great

1331
01:12:25,439 --> 01:12:29,080
Speaker 3: job at Royal Canberra. I think that was it was

1332
01:12:29,160 --> 01:12:32,040
Speaker 3: a very pretty place to play golf. It was a

1333
01:12:32,120 --> 01:12:37,519
Speaker 3: nice environment, the course was in good condition. But Inau

1334
01:12:37,640 --> 01:12:39,280
Speaker 3: I never thought it was much of a golf course.

1335
01:12:39,400 --> 01:12:41,639
Speaker 3: It was once rated fifth in Australia, and I think

1336
01:12:41,680 --> 01:12:45,240
Speaker 3: it had kind of slid down the rankings to about

1337
01:12:45,840 --> 01:12:48,040
Speaker 3: where it should have been, which was about fifty or sixty.

1338
01:12:49,479 --> 01:12:52,599
Speaker 2: And a friend of mine, who is a young kid

1339
01:12:52,680 --> 01:13:06,960
Speaker 2: but who lived he spent six Snat's University doing out

1340
01:13:07,000 --> 01:13:12,040
Speaker 2: of his engineering degree over there golf course.

1341
01:13:12,120 --> 01:13:15,280
Speaker 3: Now he's thought about golf course of line and he

1342
01:13:15,320 --> 01:13:17,200
Speaker 3: played He played Rol Camber the other day and he

1343
01:13:17,280 --> 01:13:17,719
Speaker 3: rang up.

1344
01:13:18,160 --> 01:13:20,120
Speaker 2: Driving out of the game and said, wow, it's really good.

1345
01:13:20,880 --> 01:13:23,040
Speaker 3: So you know, it's always nice to get the opinion

1346
01:13:23,040 --> 01:13:24,600
Speaker 3: of someone who's sent it for the first time and

1347
01:13:24,680 --> 01:13:28,840
Speaker 3: who actually got it. And you know, I think we

1348
01:13:28,920 --> 01:13:31,320
Speaker 3: did a pretty good job. There's so I would say,

1349
01:13:32,720 --> 01:13:34,479
Speaker 3: you know, the worker. I think World Camberra was a

1350
01:13:34,479 --> 01:13:35,880
Speaker 3: really good job and turned out really well.

1351
01:13:36,880 --> 01:13:40,280
Speaker 1: That's cool. It's always nice. I'm sure to hear praise

1352
01:13:40,360 --> 01:13:45,400
Speaker 1: from somebody that's got a good eye for golf courses. Yeah, yeah,

1353
01:13:47,760 --> 01:13:52,840
Speaker 1: last question I really appreciate all the time. If you

1354
01:13:52,920 --> 01:13:55,640
Speaker 1: had five courses that you could play the rest of

1355
01:13:55,680 --> 01:14:00,679
Speaker 1: your life, and you know, obviously location and the assume

1356
01:14:00,760 --> 01:14:03,680
Speaker 1: all fiver in your backyard, what five would they be?

1357
01:14:07,600 --> 01:14:12,280
Speaker 2: Five? Of course, more Fontaine I would play, I would

1358
01:14:12,320 --> 01:14:18,920
Speaker 2: play Woking, I would play m I would play sand Hills,

1359
01:14:20,160 --> 01:14:22,320
Speaker 2: I would play the National Golf Links, and I would

1360
01:14:22,439 --> 01:14:24,880
Speaker 2: play Royal Melbourne. How is that for fun? I mean,

1361
01:14:25,320 --> 01:14:27,960
Speaker 2: that's kind of the unanswerable question. But you try and

1362
01:14:28,080 --> 01:14:34,240
Speaker 2: create as much vari Well, that's ridiculous.

1363
01:14:33,840 --> 01:14:35,800
Speaker 3: Because I leave out the old courses, and I can't

1364
01:14:35,840 --> 01:14:38,479
Speaker 3: leave out the old courses. So give me six and

1365
01:14:38,520 --> 01:14:40,240
Speaker 3: the old course will be number one. But you know,

1366
01:14:40,280 --> 01:14:43,439
Speaker 3: I love playing golf at moll Fontaine because I love it.

1367
01:14:43,560 --> 01:14:48,560
Speaker 3: It's the most beautiful clubhouse in the world. And we

1368
01:14:48,720 --> 01:14:50,680
Speaker 3: have a drink in Australia which I never which I

1369
01:14:50,720 --> 01:14:55,519
Speaker 3: haven't had for years, orange juice and lemonade, and I

1370
01:14:55,600 --> 01:14:56,680
Speaker 3: was a drinker. I had a lot when I was

1371
01:14:56,680 --> 01:14:59,920
Speaker 3: a kid, and I played with Billy Lomia, great friend

1372
01:15:00,040 --> 01:15:01,680
Speaker 3: mine who played Europe in two. A few years we

1373
01:15:01,720 --> 01:15:02,639
Speaker 3: went to more Fontana.

1374
01:15:02,640 --> 01:15:05,120
Speaker 2: It was a hot day and for some reason we

1375
01:15:05,240 --> 01:15:06,960
Speaker 2: went to this end of the bar and I said,

1376
01:15:07,760 --> 01:15:12,120
Speaker 2: orange and lemonade. The French lady who just to be

1377
01:15:12,160 --> 01:15:14,680
Speaker 2: behind the bar, rich down under the bar, pull out

1378
01:15:14,720 --> 01:15:17,320
Speaker 2: and Orange cut it in half hands, squeezed it and

1379
01:15:17,479 --> 01:15:21,160
Speaker 2: poured it with lemonade. And it's like the couple does that.

1380
01:15:21,840 --> 01:15:23,120
Speaker 3: That's gonna be the best place in the world to

1381
01:15:23,120 --> 01:15:25,920
Speaker 3: play golf. So so more Fontaine the Old Course. I mean,

1382
01:15:25,920 --> 01:15:27,439
Speaker 3: I'll probably give you a different answer that, but more

1383
01:15:27,479 --> 01:15:30,679
Speaker 3: Fontaine the Old Course working because it's something I started,

1384
01:15:30,920 --> 01:15:31,920
Speaker 3: cool little golf course.

1385
01:15:31,920 --> 01:15:36,240
Speaker 2: It's great fun sandals because it's the great modern course,

1386
01:15:36,280 --> 01:15:38,120
Speaker 2: the national golf things, because it was the first great

1387
01:15:38,160 --> 01:15:38,839
Speaker 2: course in America.

1388
01:15:39,840 --> 01:15:45,360
Speaker 3: And I can't remember the last one because i've you know,

1389
01:15:45,479 --> 01:15:48,840
Speaker 3: because it was where I you know, I watched all

1390
01:15:48,880 --> 01:15:50,360
Speaker 3: the great players play there. I played a lot of

1391
01:15:50,400 --> 01:15:50,960
Speaker 3: tourments there.

1392
01:15:51,080 --> 01:15:55,360
Speaker 2: I'm still you know, it's the one course that I

1393
01:15:55,439 --> 01:15:57,560
Speaker 2: played there last week and it's the one course I

1394
01:15:59,040 --> 01:16:03,559
Speaker 2: I can play after forty five years is too one.

1395
01:16:03,640 --> 01:16:08,160
Speaker 2: I'm in the golf course and I'm coming. I'm coming

1396
01:16:08,240 --> 01:16:11,160
Speaker 2: over the fact that it's in my backyard. Really yeah,

1397
01:16:11,720 --> 01:16:13,960
Speaker 2: And it's literally in Jeff Auguby's backyard.

1398
01:16:13,960 --> 01:16:16,400
Speaker 3: If you hit a long hook off the fourteenth tee

1399
01:16:16,439 --> 01:16:18,400
Speaker 3: on the west coast, you land in Jeff Augulby's house.

1400
01:16:19,040 --> 01:16:22,240
Speaker 2: So he you know, he's the luckiest gone the Willie.

1401
01:16:22,320 --> 01:16:25,200
Speaker 3: I mean he literally jumps the back fence and plays

1402
01:16:25,240 --> 01:16:26,439
Speaker 3: the beck pettic at roll Melvine.

1403
01:16:26,439 --> 01:16:28,160
Speaker 2: So there are not many cooler places to live in that.

1404
01:16:28,720 --> 01:16:33,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, seriously, it's uh, I'm guessing you're still learning little

1405
01:16:33,520 --> 01:16:37,080
Speaker 1: things about the course every round around. It's uh, that's

1406
01:16:37,160 --> 01:16:38,920
Speaker 1: usually the sign of a great course, right.

1407
01:16:39,479 --> 01:16:40,519
Speaker 2: It is it is?

1408
01:16:41,080 --> 01:16:44,439
Speaker 1: It's all right, Well, you know, I want to get

1409
01:16:44,479 --> 01:16:47,240
Speaker 1: you out here. I know it's probably midnight there now,

1410
01:16:47,560 --> 01:16:52,519
Speaker 1: and uh, I really appreciate the time. A great guest,

1411
01:16:52,600 --> 01:16:55,000
Speaker 1: and we'll have to have you on again. I feel

1412
01:16:55,040 --> 01:16:57,280
Speaker 1: like we only scratch the surface about the things we

1413
01:16:57,360 --> 01:16:58,080
Speaker 1: could talk about.

1414
01:16:59,360 --> 01:17:00,760
Speaker 2: Okay, thanks, I really enjoyed it.

1415
01:17:00,960 --> 01:17:03,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely, and thanks again. Bye.

1416
01:17:04,280 --> 01:17:04,800
Speaker 2: Thanks mate,