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Speaker 1: This is great as Escapes, a show bringing you the

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Speaker 1: wildess true escape stories of all time. Now, in this episode,

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Speaker 1: we're telling the story of two escapees who had a

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Speaker 1: true neck for smuggling tools into prison so they could

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Speaker 1: cut their way out. I'm Marturo Gastro and I'm joined

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Speaker 1: by a man who's talent on screen and behind the

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Speaker 1: camera has been completely undeniable for decades. One of my

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Speaker 1: favorite co stars of all time. Please welcome Joseph Gordon Levitt.

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Speaker 1: It's Joseph Gordon Levit. Thanks, of course, thanks for being here.

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Speaker 1: And Joe, I got to tell you. You know in our

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Speaker 1: audience you know this, but you are one of the

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Speaker 1: kindest people I've ever worked with. And I mean that

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Speaker 1: very sincerely.

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Speaker 2: I feel the same way about you, man.

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Speaker 1: And I'll tell you what it is, man, that you

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Speaker 1: just like, no matter who it is on set that

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Speaker 1: has a question, you always stop and make time to

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Speaker 1: answer it, no matter how small it could be, Like

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Speaker 1: you know.

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Speaker 2: Because I just love hearing myself answer questions yes.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. If there's somebody recording it and an

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Speaker 1: artist sort of drawing, you do it. At all times.

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Speaker 1: You're just heard. I'll give you an example if somebody

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Speaker 1: comes over and they're like, hey, so, yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: I'm just gonna make those curtains blue, and you're like, wait, wait,

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Speaker 1: stop the roll. Yeah, okay, So I wanted to ask you,

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Speaker 1: even though it's kind of a hard question to ask

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Speaker 1: while being honest, but you know, being in films for

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Speaker 1: as long as you've been and still being such a

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Speaker 1: well adjusted human being, what what do you attribute that to?

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Speaker 1: How you've sort of kept your head straight all these years.

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Speaker 3: That's I mean, so flattering that you would ask me that.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's a pretty simple answer. I think I

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Speaker 3: got real lucky with the parents I got, And you

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Speaker 3: know that's not my doing that.

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Speaker 2: We all just roll dice and get who we get.

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Speaker 3: And my parents were never very enchanted with all of

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Speaker 3: the poisonous accoutremont they can come along with show business.

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Speaker 3: You know, I've been working in acting and stuff since

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Speaker 3: I was six years old, and my parents always just

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Speaker 3: saw that I loved doing it.

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Speaker 2: But anytime I.

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Speaker 3: Didn't want to do it, if I didn't feel like

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Speaker 3: going on an audition that day or something, my mom

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Speaker 3: would always say and very sincerely, you really don't have

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Speaker 3: to do this, will you know? We'll be so in

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Speaker 3: love with you and proud of you no matter what

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Speaker 3: you do. Wow, you did commit to this thing today

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Speaker 3: and it's important that you honor your commitments.

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Speaker 2: So let's go today.

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Speaker 3: But if you after that, if you don't want to

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Speaker 3: do this, you never have to do this.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 3: And I think it's it's more common that people feel

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Speaker 3: pressure to do it, and that can be the beginning

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Speaker 3: of the I don't know.

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Speaker 4: Yes, of the end say it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Let me ask you something, what do you consider it

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Speaker 1: to be your greatest escape?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Well, I honestly, I think what we did escaping the

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Speaker 3: pandemic to New Zealand. And I feel half bad, you know,

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Speaker 3: saying this, because it was such a privilege to get

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Speaker 3: to do it.

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Speaker 2: But that was an incredible escape.

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Speaker 3: And just to tell the brief version of the story,

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Speaker 3: you know, we were shooting this show, mister Corman, that

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Speaker 3: i'd been you know, trying to put together for years

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Speaker 3: is My Baby. We're three weeks into the shoot in.

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Speaker 2: March of twenty twenty when the whole world shut down.

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Speaker 3: We have to stop along with everybody else, and we

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Speaker 3: were trying to get.

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Speaker 2: The production back up.

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Speaker 3: Everyone was running around trying to figure out how to

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Speaker 3: shoot during the pandemic, and the intrepid producers over at

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Speaker 3: A twenty four called me and said, would you ever

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Speaker 3: consider spending a lot of.

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Speaker 2: Time in New Zealand?

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Speaker 3: And I was, I mean, I felt like I won

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Speaker 3: the lottery. I had been literally, not exaggerating. My wife

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Speaker 3: and I had been fantasizing. We'd been staying up at

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Speaker 3: night looking at google Maps street view of New Zealand,

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Speaker 3: picking where we wanted to be, just because it sounded

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Speaker 3: like such a dream to be out of the pandemic,

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Speaker 3: and when there was no COVID there at the time,

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Speaker 3: and then we got to go, and I remember, and

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Speaker 3: I got to bring my family and we spent a

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Speaker 3: time there and a long time, and I remember when

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Speaker 3: we got there. My older boy, who at the time

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Speaker 3: was I think five, we got off the plane in

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Speaker 3: the airport in Wellington and no one was wearing masks,

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Speaker 3: and we got off and we took off our masks

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Speaker 3: and my boy goes, we're out of the pandemic, and

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Speaker 3: I was like, yeah, that's exactly what happens.

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Speaker 2: Leave it to a five or well.

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Speaker 1: But it was an escape, right, It was just like

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Speaker 1: we were able to I remember I would post stories

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Speaker 1: or I send my friends videos of like just shopping

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Speaker 1: at a grocery store without a mask, and it was

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Speaker 1: like the biggest flex in the world. Okay, so are

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Speaker 1: we ready to get into this? Do you want to

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Speaker 1: hear some crazy escape?

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Speaker 2: I want to hear this story. I love storytelling, so

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Speaker 2: I can't wait.

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Speaker 4: I'm gonna hate you.

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Speaker 1: It's the summer of twenty fifteen, and we begin in

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Speaker 1: a remote hunting cabin in upstate New York. The rooms

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Speaker 1: are dark, quiet, musty. The cabin is empty. Footsteps approach, crunch.

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Speaker 1: I'm not gonna do my own side effects. Two men

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Speaker 1: come to the door. They try the handle. They're silhouettes

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Speaker 1: loom in the windows. They force their way inside. Yes,

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Speaker 1: it's a break in. The men are looking pretty rough.

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Speaker 1: They've been trekking through the woods near the Canadian border,

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Speaker 1: living off the land and carrying their supplies in a

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Speaker 1: battered guitar case.

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Speaker 2: Of guitar case.

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Speaker 1: A guitar case.

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Speaker 3: They didn't mean to go living in the wilderness. Is

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Speaker 3: they're carrying a guitar case?

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Speaker 1: Well, no, they didn't. This wasn't part of their plan.

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Speaker 1: They have ragged name tags they're still sewn into their clothing.

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Speaker 1: It's they're called David and Richard.

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Speaker 2: Name tags what like TGIF waiters or something.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes they both work. They work at Applebee's and

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Speaker 1: this is just how do some crazy turn of events.

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Speaker 1: They are now in the woods. So they're in this

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Speaker 1: crusty cabin in the woods and it's a gold mic.

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Speaker 1: They rummage to the cabinets and dressers. Do you have

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Speaker 1: any guess what they're going to find their joe?

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Speaker 2: I mean food, water, I don't know, like Nintendo.

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Speaker 4: A TGI Friday store.

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Speaker 1: They found a full so they open up a fully

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Speaker 1: stocked pantry and begin to feast. But even better, they

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Speaker 1: find a bottle of moonshine and a propane heater, and

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Speaker 1: you also find plenty of choice weed. So one of

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Speaker 1: them sleeps sweeps up the glass. The other one grabs

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Speaker 1: the moonshine, rosa joints and settles on the couch. We

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Speaker 1: get a glare from the sweeping guy and he just takes.

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Speaker 2: The same marijuana and alcohol.

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Speaker 4: Not my favorite, not a favorite thing to do.

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Speaker 1: It's always seems like a good idea, you know when

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Speaker 1: I was younger, Like you're drawing somebody that you want

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Speaker 1: to hit. This and sudden one.

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Speaker 2: What kind of evening do you want to have? Pick one?

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Speaker 4: So something, I mean the couch and brain.

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Speaker 1: Yo'll be like, oh, man, three years ago, it's kind

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Speaker 1: of rude to that, Maarissa, I.

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Speaker 4: Should call them.

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Speaker 1: So this is when David and Richard's Great Escape started

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Speaker 1: to go sideways. There were two murderers on the run

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Speaker 1: after an epic prison escape, and the.

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Speaker 4: Law was hot on their heels.

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Speaker 1: Oh damn, So Joe, let's meet these two shady characters. Okay,

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Speaker 1: we established they're not actually from TJA Fridays.

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Speaker 2: Oh their prison name tags after all.

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Speaker 1: Exactly, So these guys were worse than shady. These two

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Speaker 1: guys were cold blooded killers. And so we're gonna start

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Speaker 1: with David Sweat. Yeah. So he was born in nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighty and he grew up in a little town of Deposit,

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Speaker 1: New York. Incidentally, it's not known for their deposits. They

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Speaker 1: were all cash in hand. That's such a stupid joke,

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Speaker 1: but I have to get it in there.

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Speaker 4: So by the time he was eighteen.

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Speaker 1: David had already had a long rap sheet, a list

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Speaker 1: that included violent attacks and burglees and car crashes to

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Speaker 1: his knee. What coind of parents, did he He did

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Speaker 1: not have great parents. They all, yes, none of them. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they all believed in name text that wasn't even a

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Speaker 1: prison thing. They just like it was just the thing

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Speaker 1: he picked up from youth. So once while he was

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Speaker 1: in prison, a guard found him making a list of

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Speaker 1: future crimes that he hoped to commit one day. You

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Speaker 1: got to admire the fucking audacity of this insane viition board.

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Speaker 3: Is he writing down just like the actual offenses I

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Speaker 3: want to perform armed robbery check, I want to perform

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Speaker 3: arson check?

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Speaker 1: Or is he like, yes, exact, I want to commit

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Speaker 1: each and every one of these before my time is done.

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Speaker 2: So, oh, he's ill. He's sick. He's mentally ill.

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Speaker 1: He's a sick man. But when he first got out

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Speaker 1: on parole, David started living out of a camper in

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Speaker 1: the woods in upstate New York. He gathered some friends

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Speaker 1: like minded prince, you could say, and they started boosting

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Speaker 1: cars from the parking lots of nearby towns now.

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Speaker 4: David, sorry, let me ask you this.

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Speaker 1: Let me go back to this for a second.

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Speaker 4: Do you believe that some people.

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Speaker 1: Even if they're not mentally ill or there's not something

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Speaker 1: inherently wrong with him. Do you think there's just some

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Speaker 1: people that are born.

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Speaker 4: Cruel or their race cruel?

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Speaker 3: I mean, cruel has the value judgment. I definitely think

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Speaker 3: there are people who are born ill. And I mean,

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Speaker 3: I'm sorry to get all serious here. We're trying to

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Speaker 3: have a fun time telling an escape story. But like

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Speaker 3: for sure, our world, especially our country, does not do

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Speaker 3: a good job of taking care of mentally ill people.

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Speaker 3: And the fact that someone who's clearly mentally ill has

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Speaker 3: ended up in prison, that's probably not the right place

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Speaker 3: for him.

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Speaker 2: That's not going to help him.

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Speaker 1: And to your point, through throughout these stories that we've

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Speaker 1: been telling, a lot of them are prison escapes, and nobody,

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Speaker 1: not one person in any of these stories gets reformed

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Speaker 1: by going to the prison system.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's supposed to be rehabilitation.

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Speaker 3: Well, it's it's worth noting, you know, in sorry to

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Speaker 3: get all geeky about this is something I'm.

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Speaker 2: Quite interested in.

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Speaker 3: There's a lot of prisons that they actually are private

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Speaker 3: for profit companies, so it's in their interest that they

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Speaker 3: have more prisoners, and so what incentive do they have

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Speaker 3: to make sure that their prisoners rehabilitate and get out

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Speaker 3: and go lead more healthy, positive lives.

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Speaker 2: They don't, they have the incentive to bring them back.

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Speaker 3: Like any good business, you want your customers to come back.

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Speaker 3: I do think it speaks to the kind of larger

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Speaker 3: values and understanding. And this goes back to the kind

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Speaker 3: of meritocracy myth that we were talking about a minute

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Speaker 3: ago when you asked like, Hey, how did you end

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Speaker 3: up so lucky to be?

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Speaker 2: You know, a happy person?

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Speaker 3: And I think so much of it comes down to luck,

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Speaker 3: whether that's who your.

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Speaker 2: Parents are, or just the physiology and your brain.

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Speaker 3: Are all the cylinders firing right, or are some of

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Speaker 3: those cylinders firing in a way that drive you as

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Speaker 3: a young person to think about crime and want to

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Speaker 3: do that. I definitely think that that's luck. And you know,

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Speaker 3: the there's a saying I forget the exact wording of it,

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Speaker 3: but like the measure of a good kind society is

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Speaker 3: how well you treat the unlucky people.

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Speaker 1: Joe, because we're spending too much money spying on our

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Speaker 1: own citizens. But he's like, you know, that gets expensive.

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Speaker 1: People need to know who I'm fucking TEXTI man, you know.

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Speaker 1: And so when he was with with these like minded people,

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Speaker 1: David bracked to others about the police scanner that he

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Speaker 1: used to avoid cops, and he said that if they

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Speaker 1: ever came at him, he would blow them away. So

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00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:22,199
Speaker 1: in two thousand and two, on the fourth of July,

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00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:25,360
Speaker 1: David Sweat and two accomplices ran the truck through the

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Speaker 1: back wall of a fireworks and gun shop. They ran

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Speaker 1: through the store and they loaded up a duffel bag

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Speaker 1: with guns and also fireworks and guns in the same shop.

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Speaker 1: Is there anything more American than a flock sip store

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Speaker 1: of everything that goes boom? You know? It's like, do

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Speaker 1: you like guns?

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Speaker 4: You like explosions?

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Speaker 3: Why spend any time anywhere else when you're having fun

251
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Speaker 3: there fireworks when it gets serious, we.

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Speaker 1: Have weapons and when you don't know which, bury both,

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Speaker 1: which is kind of incidentally the tagline for My King Senira.

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Speaker 1: So with their loot, David raised to a tiny park

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Speaker 1: three miles away where they were moving the gun to

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Speaker 1: a second car. That's when a local sheriff's deputy pulled

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Speaker 1: up in his cruiser and had them in the headlights. Now,

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Speaker 1: the deputy got out of his car to confront the men,

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Speaker 1: but David Sweat just started shooting man and he and

260
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Speaker 1: the other Roberts shot the deputy fifteen times, stole his gun,

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Speaker 1: and even this is fucking rough. They ran him over

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Speaker 1: with their getaway car, the old bloody premated Tata murder.

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Speaker 1: But and again not to go on another tangent of this,

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Speaker 1: but you know, it's I'm sure for the family of

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Speaker 1: this deputy, it's hard to understand this, you know what

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Speaker 1: I'm saying. It's hard to have any sympathy for somebody

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Speaker 1: just killed your fucking husband, of.

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Speaker 2: Course, but that's just it.

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Speaker 3: It's it's bad for the police too, Like why the

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Speaker 3: first government intervention of like trying to handle this very

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Speaker 3: sick person should not be a sheriff's deputy, a mental

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Speaker 3: health professional talking to this kid a decade prior so

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Speaker 3: that he doesn't kill the sheriff's deputy.

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Speaker 2: That's exactly the.

275
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Speaker 1: Problem, exactly. So then they made it their escape. But

276
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Speaker 1: David could not stop bragging. And so within a week,

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Speaker 1: David's it always fucking happens with criminals, with the criminals

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Speaker 1: that we learned.

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Speaker 2: About here, what is he writing about?

280
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Speaker 3: He's like, they're gonna fucking talk about me on a

281
00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:09,240
Speaker 3: podcast one David.

282
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Speaker 4: So within a week, David's girlfriend.

283
00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:14,560
Speaker 1: Told the police, and when they called him, David pled

284
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Speaker 1: guilty to the murder. In order to avoid the death penalty.

285
00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:19,760
Speaker 1: He received the life sentence without parole. Now they send

286
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Speaker 1: him to Clinton Correctional Facility in upstate New York, and

287
00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:25,800
Speaker 1: that's where he would meet our next escapee, Richard Matt

288
00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:27,960
Speaker 1: His story is a lot like David's. You know, he

289
00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:29,839
Speaker 1: was another troubled kid who didn't get the help he

290
00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:31,720
Speaker 1: needed When he was a kid. He actually ran away

291
00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:34,320
Speaker 1: from a foster home by stealing a horse and riding

292
00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:36,599
Speaker 1: off at the age of fourteen. He even tried to

293
00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:38,640
Speaker 1: steal a houseboat man. You got to give this guy

294
00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:41,319
Speaker 1: a credit for like niche getaway vehicle. You know. He

295
00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:44,000
Speaker 1: was also well known for a penny farthing escape. You know,

296
00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:48,480
Speaker 1: have you have you ever owned a unicycle or written

297
00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:49,560
Speaker 1: a penny farthing?

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00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:53,120
Speaker 3: My wife can ride a unicycle. I've never owned one personally,

299
00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:54,600
Speaker 3: and I've tried to ride it.

300
00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:56,840
Speaker 1: It's very difficult, I'm sure it is. I don't think

301
00:13:56,880 --> 00:13:59,080
Speaker 1: I could ride also ride one fast enough to like

302
00:13:59,080 --> 00:13:59,559
Speaker 1: get away.

303
00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:00,800
Speaker 4: I would love to see that.

304
00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:03,960
Speaker 1: That should be our new reality show. So Richard's crimes

305
00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:07,200
Speaker 1: only got worse from there, right felonius, felony weapon charges,

306
00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:10,679
Speaker 1: felony assault, and plenty of misdemeter harassment charges. It's like

307
00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:13,160
Speaker 1: he just couldn't meet somebody without attacking them, you know.

308
00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:16,000
Speaker 1: So when he was caught, he often escaped heavy charges

309
00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:18,880
Speaker 1: by pleading guilty to lesser crimes. What's the most trouble

310
00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:20,120
Speaker 1: you ever got into as a kid?

311
00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:26,600
Speaker 3: Uh? I? I remember shoplifting a greeting card once at

312
00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:28,920
Speaker 3: the mall because there was a picture on the front

313
00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:31,120
Speaker 3: that looked like my dog, and I wanted to show

314
00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:34,240
Speaker 3: it to my mom and dad. But I also probably

315
00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:36,880
Speaker 3: I think I had probably enough money to buy the thing,

316
00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:39,840
Speaker 3: but I was tickled by the idea of, you know,

317
00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:40,640
Speaker 3: stealing it.

318
00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:44,000
Speaker 2: And what do you know, I didn't get caught.

319
00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:48,640
Speaker 3: Like you, but even Jewish kid in the mall, no

320
00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:52,080
Speaker 3: one punished me or sent me to foster care for shoplifting.

321
00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:54,920
Speaker 1: Well, actually funny she should mention that because we have

322
00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:56,000
Speaker 1: the shop owner here.

323
00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:58,560
Speaker 4: With us today, come on out found him. We fucking

324
00:14:58,600 --> 00:14:59,440
Speaker 4: found him us.

325
00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:01,880
Speaker 2: It's hill on the refrigerator at my parent's house.

326
00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:03,760
Speaker 1: I can give it back to you. No, no, no, no.

327
00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:05,800
Speaker 1: He doesn't want to speak right now, but he is

328
00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:09,680
Speaker 1: very mighty myth. So the neglect was obvious though, you know,

329
00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:12,640
Speaker 1: with with Richard's life. He made his first prison break

330
00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:15,320
Speaker 1: the easy way. A guard left his prison so open,

331
00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:17,080
Speaker 1: and he just kind of fucking walked out. You know,

332
00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:19,040
Speaker 1: I didn't know that that's you could do.

333
00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:21,440
Speaker 2: He scaled this nice little guardian on it.

334
00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:24,120
Speaker 1: No, no, no, he was just neglectful. You know, we

335
00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:27,480
Speaker 1: also have him here. He's just giving me excuses. So

336
00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:30,040
Speaker 1: this guy scaled a nine foot brick wall and slashed

337
00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:32,040
Speaker 1: up his arms on the barbed wire in the process.

338
00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:34,440
Speaker 1: He jumped the freight train to make his escape, but

339
00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:36,360
Speaker 1: he didn't go far though. It only took him four

340
00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:38,080
Speaker 1: days for police to catch up with him at his

341
00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:40,560
Speaker 1: brother's apartment. So, you know, he's not the brightest dude

342
00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:42,560
Speaker 1: at hiding, but he's good at like the first part

343
00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:45,000
Speaker 1: of escape, but he lacks a little follow through, which

344
00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:48,040
Speaker 1: is why we'll see later on the story. So every

345
00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:51,600
Speaker 1: time he got out of prison, Richard committed horrible assaults.

346
00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:55,560
Speaker 1: It was a pretty vicious cycle. And this part is nuts. Okay. Once,

347
00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:57,600
Speaker 1: while he was in prison awaiting trial, he struck a

348
00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:00,400
Speaker 1: deal with another inmate to kill the dude's wife.

349
00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:02,920
Speaker 4: The dude paid for Richard's bail.

350
00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:05,640
Speaker 1: But once Richard got out, he turned the tables and

351
00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:07,360
Speaker 1: told the authorities about the plot.

352
00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:09,320
Speaker 4: But wait, it gets it gets crazier.

353
00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:12,680
Speaker 1: Wasn't this guy the married to the heir of the

354
00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:15,880
Speaker 1: Warner Brothers fortune overlords. That is correct?

355
00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:19,720
Speaker 3: Wait wait, wait, the guy that was hiring Richard to

356
00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:22,960
Speaker 3: kill his wife while in prison, That guy, the wife

357
00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:25,640
Speaker 3: that he wanted to kill, was the great granddaughter of

358
00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:26,880
Speaker 3: the actual Warner Brothers.

359
00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:29,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, that's right. So she was an heiress of

360
00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:30,800
Speaker 4: the Warner Brothers family.

361
00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:31,400
Speaker 1: Can you believe?

362
00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:32,400
Speaker 2: Oh wow?

363
00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:34,440
Speaker 1: So he got out because he rad it on this guy.

364
00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:36,640
Speaker 1: But his next rhyme was the only one that would

365
00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:39,400
Speaker 1: finally get him locked in maximum security. Now, it started

366
00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:41,360
Speaker 1: when he took a job with a business dealing with

367
00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:45,200
Speaker 1: kid this nearly expired meat, so they would buy a

368
00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:48,000
Speaker 1: cheap and they were selling it to new customers.

369
00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:53,960
Speaker 3: Oh so it's the thing, nearly nearly expired meat.

370
00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:58,080
Speaker 1: Nearly yeah, keto, it was the old keto version. So

371
00:16:58,440 --> 00:16:59,960
Speaker 1: have you ever had any sketchy jobs?

372
00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:02,000
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm an actor, so it is kind of

373
00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:02,960
Speaker 2: a sketchy job.

374
00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:07,880
Speaker 1: I hear. So Richard made his expired meat job even

375
00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:11,439
Speaker 1: more sketchy. He started stealing the meat, smuggling over the

376
00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:13,800
Speaker 1: border into Canada for cash that he would then take

377
00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:16,800
Speaker 1: the strip close, right, So who's buying all this fucking

378
00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:18,359
Speaker 1: expired me? By the way, I don't want to know.

379
00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:22,160
Speaker 1: So after strivers, Yeah, not the stripper, I hope. After

380
00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:25,000
Speaker 1: only a few weeks, the boss caught him and fired Richard. Now,

381
00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:27,840
Speaker 1: unfortunately for the boss, Richard had overheard him make a

382
00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:30,359
Speaker 1: comment one time about one hundred grand that he had

383
00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:34,480
Speaker 1: buried in the basement. So Richard thought it was real

384
00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:36,960
Speaker 1: and he wanted that money. So he got a friend

385
00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:38,760
Speaker 1: and the two of them rolled up on the meat

386
00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:41,200
Speaker 1: dealer at his house. They beat him up, They stuffed

387
00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:43,640
Speaker 1: him into the trunk of Richard's car, and they drove

388
00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:46,400
Speaker 1: around for hours, stopping to interrogate and beat the guy.

389
00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:49,919
Speaker 1: They never learned anything from him, so Richard eventually just

390
00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:53,320
Speaker 1: killed him. But here's the most gruesome ploy. Yeah, he's

391
00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:55,760
Speaker 1: the most gruesome part. Richard cut him up into pieces

392
00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:57,080
Speaker 1: and dumped him in a river.

393
00:17:57,359 --> 00:17:58,360
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness.

394
00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:02,040
Speaker 1: Yeah. So he went to Mexico, but like David Sweat,

395
00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:04,680
Speaker 1: he just couldn't keep quiet. He went berserk and killed

396
00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:07,960
Speaker 1: another man in a bar. Jeez. Richard did nine years

397
00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:09,800
Speaker 1: in a Mexican prison before he got shipped back to

398
00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:12,119
Speaker 1: the United States. Oh so, how bad do you have

399
00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:14,360
Speaker 1: to be for the Mexican jails to be like? Nokout

400
00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:16,720
Speaker 1: you know what you can't have No, no, you can

401
00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:18,200
Speaker 1: have him. This is two wiki for us.

402
00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:20,160
Speaker 4: No like it. I don't like the vibe. I don't

403
00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:21,040
Speaker 4: like you know what I'm saying.

404
00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:23,320
Speaker 2: I just don't give him to us.

405
00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:25,920
Speaker 4: Yeah no, no, we had him.

406
00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:28,040
Speaker 1: No, this guy just keeps pissing on us. I don't

407
00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:30,359
Speaker 1: like it. He keeps telling us experiment. Where does he

408
00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:32,920
Speaker 1: get it from? Where does he get You're.

409
00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:34,040
Speaker 2: Gonna take him and you're gonna pay for it?

410
00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:37,400
Speaker 1: Oh god, damn it. Fine? Uh speaking in Mexico, alrities

411
00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:39,720
Speaker 1: might not know that you speak Spanish.

412
00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:44,879
Speaker 2: Yop yo in no noise noise.

413
00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:49,680
Speaker 1: He just insulted me and my whole family for Spanish speakers,

414
00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:50,240
Speaker 1: and I do.

415
00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:51,280
Speaker 4: Take event do you wait?

416
00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:51,600
Speaker 1: Sorry?

417
00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:54,160
Speaker 4: Just quickly, Spanish French.

418
00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:56,840
Speaker 2: French would be French better than Spanish.

419
00:18:56,840 --> 00:18:58,280
Speaker 4: Okay, Spanish, French and English.

420
00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:02,359
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, that's impressive. Man. When are we starting with Dutch?

421
00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:04,440
Speaker 1: You and I just like just throwing it out there

422
00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:06,080
Speaker 1: on the weekends. We can learn it in a year,

423
00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:07,000
Speaker 1: will be great for ends.

424
00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:08,040
Speaker 2: Let's do Chinese.

425
00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:10,920
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I would love to Why I would

426
00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:13,000
Speaker 1: look to Japanese that I would really really love.

427
00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:16,760
Speaker 2: Yeah.

428
00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:19,320
Speaker 1: Back in the States, they have Richard back with him,

429
00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:22,400
Speaker 1: and Richard finally stood trial for murdering the meat boss,

430
00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:24,800
Speaker 1: and this time they really tried not to let him escape,

431
00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:27,280
Speaker 1: so they put him in a stun belt and even

432
00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:30,800
Speaker 1: posted snipers on the roof to the courthouse. A stun belt,

433
00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:34,159
Speaker 1: what is that? I'm guessing it's like a stun caller

434
00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:37,080
Speaker 1: for dogs, but like you just you just have it

435
00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:38,240
Speaker 1: around your body, like.

436
00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:40,240
Speaker 3: What while he was in court or while he was

437
00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:42,199
Speaker 3: he was sitting there in a in a belt and

438
00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:43,679
Speaker 3: someone's got a button when.

439
00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:47,120
Speaker 1: Thinking while they're transporting him. It's my guess, but let

440
00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:49,080
Speaker 1: me get my overlords on this. What do we mean

441
00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:51,760
Speaker 1: by a stun belt? You guys, Joe is correct, he

442
00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:54,919
Speaker 1: was sitting in the court and somebody has a button. Yes,

443
00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:57,439
Speaker 1: Oh that wow?

444
00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:02,440
Speaker 3: Okay, uh, well sounds like a good fair trial if.

445
00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:04,040
Speaker 4: You're at the trial.

446
00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:06,000
Speaker 1: But he was easily convicted and they sent him to

447
00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:09,040
Speaker 1: Clinton Correctional facility, and that's where he met David and

448
00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:23,200
Speaker 1: the two of them started planning their great escape. Now

449
00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:25,040
Speaker 1: we're in two thousand and eight when David Sweat and

450
00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:28,000
Speaker 1: Richard Matter are serving their respective prison sentences in Clinton

451
00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:31,119
Speaker 1: Correctional Facility. So David had been there for eight years

452
00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:34,040
Speaker 1: and Richard was a new arrival. But Richard even came

453
00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:35,840
Speaker 1: with a new nickname, Hacksaw.

454
00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:37,320
Speaker 4: I want to think that David.

455
00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:39,919
Speaker 1: I want to think that David was extremely jealous of

456
00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:41,879
Speaker 1: what a hard ass nickname he wanted. He wanted to

457
00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:43,880
Speaker 1: make up one up for himself. But I never called on,

458
00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:47,240
Speaker 1: you know, like call me lion Eater. No, sorry, dude,

459
00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:47,879
Speaker 1: you just kind of.

460
00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:51,600
Speaker 2: David hex On, David, David and Haxaw. That's our shots, right.

461
00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:55,200
Speaker 4: He just never He's like, we can call you Sweat.

462
00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:56,720
Speaker 1: Did you ever have a nickname?

463
00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:57,119
Speaker 4: Joe?

464
00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:00,639
Speaker 3: I was doing a movie about soldiers and we all

465
00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:03,280
Speaker 3: were doing a simulated boot camp, which is about the

466
00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:05,679
Speaker 3: you know, that's as hard ass as I get a

467
00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:09,040
Speaker 3: simulated boot camp. I hear it was like crazy ass

468
00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:11,960
Speaker 3: Chan because he is sort of a crazy person, smoking

469
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:15,520
Speaker 3: ass iron because he smokes a lot, and it was

470
00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:20,000
Speaker 3: they called me regular Joe because they were all they

471
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:22,600
Speaker 3: were all too prissy to ship in the outhouse and

472
00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:25,720
Speaker 3: they wouldn't ship. And I don't care like I'll go

473
00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:28,520
Speaker 3: take ship. I'm not gonna not take a ship. Everybody

474
00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:29,919
Speaker 3: we don't has to go.

475
00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:32,639
Speaker 1: We just you know, on set, I noticed this. We

476
00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:35,520
Speaker 1: just had to look away. If Joe has to go,

477
00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:37,800
Speaker 1: this man will not walk two feet. He would just

478
00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:38,760
Speaker 1: fucking drop.

479
00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:40,280
Speaker 2: Stay regular man.

480
00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:42,600
Speaker 3: I eat a lot of vegetables. I'm gonna go ship

481
00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:43,359
Speaker 3: in the outhouse.

482
00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:43,760
Speaker 2: Come on.

483
00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:47,199
Speaker 3: So I was regular Joe. There you go, and that

484
00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:49,600
Speaker 3: name kind of stuck. Some people still call me regular Joe.

485
00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:52,919
Speaker 1: That's a good one. So let me tell you about

486
00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:55,400
Speaker 1: Let me tell you about this person that they were

487
00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:57,879
Speaker 1: in right so as and I want to check in

488
00:21:57,920 --> 00:21:59,439
Speaker 1: with you. Is this is? How do you feeling?

489
00:21:59,440 --> 00:21:59,679
Speaker 3: This is?

490
00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:01,639
Speaker 1: It's a hard story to hear, isn't it?

491
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:02,520
Speaker 2: It's just hard for me.

492
00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:08,120
Speaker 3: I have to admit I have a hard time enjoying

493
00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:13,520
Speaker 3: the horrendous misfortunes of these terribly tragically ill people and

494
00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:18,000
Speaker 3: the pain they cause. But I've run the moral calculation

495
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:20,439
Speaker 3: in my head as we're doing this, and that's exactly

496
00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:22,040
Speaker 3: where I net it out. It was like, okay, well,

497
00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:24,879
Speaker 3: if we can make a podcast where yes, we're telling

498
00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:28,600
Speaker 3: a story that's crazy to hear, but we're also actually

499
00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:31,240
Speaker 3: breaking it down and trying to understand what are the

500
00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:35,440
Speaker 3: larger problems in our world that are leading to these things.

501
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:37,760
Speaker 3: That sounds like a fair way in to have some

502
00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:39,120
Speaker 3: important conversations.

503
00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:40,000
Speaker 2: So I'm down.

504
00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:42,480
Speaker 3: I'm in full support to be going through the story

505
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:43,800
Speaker 3: and having this conversation.

506
00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:46,560
Speaker 1: Awesome, man, thank you, And you know I agree, and

507
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:48,600
Speaker 1: you know I think it helps to tell these kinds

508
00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:51,280
Speaker 1: of stories with some context. Right, So let's go back

509
00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:53,280
Speaker 1: a little bit and get into the history of the

510
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:55,560
Speaker 1: person that they were in. So the prison was called

511
00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:59,080
Speaker 1: Clinton Correctional Facility and it was originally built by labor

512
00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:02,600
Speaker 1: gangs of prisoners in the eighteen hundreds. The Cold Winters

513
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:06,680
Speaker 1: gave the prison its nickname Little Siberia Labor Gangs.

514
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:08,720
Speaker 2: Wow, sorry, I just said labor gangs.

515
00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:12,439
Speaker 3: Then it's an important thing to note the American prison

516
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:16,640
Speaker 3: system is there's there's not even a dotted line between

517
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:20,520
Speaker 3: the American prison system and the American slavery industry.

518
00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:22,040
Speaker 1: From not even a dotted line.

519
00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:25,200
Speaker 3: It's not even it's a solid line. It's not even

520
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:28,119
Speaker 3: a very long line. It was like as soon as

521
00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:31,800
Speaker 3: slavery was outlawed in whatever it was, eighteen sixty five,

522
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:35,880
Speaker 3: very very shortly thereafter, they started figuring out, okay, well

523
00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:38,560
Speaker 3: then how are we going to get all this work done?

524
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:42,439
Speaker 3: And prisoners was exactly one of the biggest answers and

525
00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:44,520
Speaker 3: it's still happening today.

526
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:45,840
Speaker 1: And for our listeners, if you want to hear more

527
00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:48,919
Speaker 1: about it, Ava Duverne did an amazing documentary called The

528
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:51,119
Speaker 1: Thirteenth Yeah, which you can find on Netflix, which was

529
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:56,479
Speaker 1: incredibly powerful. Yeah. So you know, imagine the conditions of

530
00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:59,240
Speaker 1: any place when it gets compared to a fucking Soviet

531
00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:02,200
Speaker 1: gulag like little Siberia too, you know what I'm saying,

532
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:04,880
Speaker 1: that's when you're really fucking up. So the guard tower

533
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:07,800
Speaker 1: in the sixty food concrete walls dominate the surrounding streets.

534
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:09,959
Speaker 1: Now in two thousand and eight, the people locked up

535
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:12,560
Speaker 1: there were put to work in an assembling office. They

536
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:16,600
Speaker 1: were making furniture, clothes, license plates, and road signs in

537
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:19,959
Speaker 1: an industrial building inside the prison walls. It's like a

538
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:22,000
Speaker 1: fucked up Etsy shop, you know what I'm saying, Like,

539
00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:24,639
Speaker 1: it's just like wrong, Yeah, so most people in this

540
00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:26,320
Speaker 1: and this is another thing, right, most people in the

541
00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:29,919
Speaker 1: surrounding town called then dan Mora were jobs in the prison.

542
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:33,640
Speaker 1: They were guards, clerks, cooks, and supervisors for the prison labors.

543
00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:36,439
Speaker 1: For instance, take Tilly, and she's going to be essential

544
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:39,000
Speaker 1: to our story. She and her husband both worked in

545
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,439
Speaker 1: the prison, and Tilly had been a supervisor since two

546
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:44,440
Speaker 1: thousand and eight. She ran the show in the tailoring shop,

547
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:48,400
Speaker 1: and that's where she met David and Richard. So there

548
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:50,680
Speaker 1: are conflicting stories about what happened in the tailor shop,

549
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:54,320
Speaker 1: including whether the sexual acts were consensual. Even Tilly's own

550
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:56,879
Speaker 1: account has changed over time, Like what she told the

551
00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,639
Speaker 1: state investigators differs from the accounts that she's giving to

552
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:02,679
Speaker 1: the press. You know, it's possible that Tilly herself was

553
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:05,159
Speaker 1: a victim of sexual violence and coercion. And we just

554
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:07,560
Speaker 1: want to make it super clear for our listener that

555
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:10,040
Speaker 1: there are multiple sides of this story and the facts

556
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:13,160
Speaker 1: are not one hundred percent clear, you know, But first

557
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:15,159
Speaker 1: maybe it seemed like there wasn't much to worry about.

558
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:17,480
Speaker 1: After all, David and Richard lived in Cell Block A,

559
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 1: which was known as the Honor Block. So inside Clinton correctional.

560
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:23,679
Speaker 1: Richard and David had taken up painting and build themselves

561
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 1: a good reputation, because if history has taught us anything

562
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:28,560
Speaker 1: it's that people who take a planting class never do

563
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:32,440
Speaker 1: anything wrong like ever. Ever, so in the Taylor's shop

564
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:34,960
Speaker 1: where they work, David had also become really good at

565
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:38,840
Speaker 1: sewing and was even made shop instructor. Now other workers

566
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 1: started noticing that Tilly had made friends with David. She

567
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:44,639
Speaker 1: started bringing him contraband treats. And at first there was

568
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:48,360
Speaker 1: things like homemade brownies or cookies, but once Tilly even

569
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:50,840
Speaker 1: brought him a big mac from a McDonald's that was

570
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:55,000
Speaker 1: almost an hour away from prison. Wow, that is fucking commitment. Dude.

571
00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:56,879
Speaker 1: My girlfriend and I like argue about who's going to

572
00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 1: like shut the lights out like four feet away from

573
00:25:59,080 --> 00:25:59,480
Speaker 1: our band.

574
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:01,960
Speaker 2: Okay, I was gonna say our long big mac run.

575
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,400
Speaker 1: That's not just that's not friendship. No no, no no.

576
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:06,959
Speaker 1: And so eventually the violations were too obvious, you know,

577
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:10,320
Speaker 1: an anominumous letter to the prison administrators got David kicked

578
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 1: out of the tailoring shop. And that's when Tilly got

579
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 1: close to David's prison friend, Richard, like very very close Okay.

580
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 1: As we noted earlier, there are some differing accounts about

581
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:23,240
Speaker 1: whether or not the relationship became sexual. By the spring

582
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 1: of twenty fifteen, the State Investigation reports that it was

583
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:28,160
Speaker 1: Tilly and Richard who were going into the empty room

584
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:31,119
Speaker 1: for sex. Tilly would also give Richard sexual notes to

585
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 1: pass along to David, including nude photos of herself. Later,

586
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 1: in at least one interview, Tilly said that she was

587
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 1: worried about her safety in her husband's life.

588
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 4: But we'll come back to that later.

589
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:44,680
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, So she's married during this, she's married turing

590
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:47,720
Speaker 1: this to a guy that works at the prison. Wow. So,

591
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:50,679
Speaker 1: because despite all of this special treatment inside the prison,

592
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:57,960
Speaker 1: Richard and David were determined to get out, So listen.

593
00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 1: Once David and Richard had Tilly tangled up in the

594
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 1: most bizarre thrutle ever, they had the plan to use

595
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:05,480
Speaker 1: her as a means for escape.

596
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:07,199
Speaker 4: Richard until he started to trade.

597
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:09,120
Speaker 1: At first, it was just small things, you know, paint

598
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:11,440
Speaker 1: brushes for their art, stuff like that. But then it

599
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 1: started to get a little more elaborate. He said he

600
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:16,480
Speaker 1: needed some glasses with built in flashlights because it would

601
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 1: help him paint tonight. He then said he needed some

602
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:21,199
Speaker 1: hacksaw blades. What do you think she had?

603
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 4: Like she thought he needed this for.

604
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:24,480
Speaker 2: Like he was just jealous of the nickname.

605
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:28,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to be hacks off too, you know,

606
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:31,160
Speaker 1: I'm tired of being sweaty sweat I'm a sweaty Dave.

607
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 4: So until he brought in the.

608
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:36,199
Speaker 1: Blades secretly and stashed them at Richard's workstation in the

609
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:38,920
Speaker 1: tailory shop. Then to get them out of his cell,

610
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 1: Richard taped them to his body and underwalk and this

611
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:44,520
Speaker 1: is important. On the walk back to the tailory shop,

612
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,520
Speaker 1: the guard let him go around the metal detector. Right,

613
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:50,199
Speaker 1: So this was honor block, after all, What reason did

614
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 1: they have to be suspicious of Richard? But this just

615
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 1: seems like gross neglect or he was in on it, right, Yeah.

616
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, if there's a metal detector there, what's

617
00:27:58,760 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 2: the why don't you just.

618
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 1: Go fucking through it? Yeah. So, once he was back

619
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:04,119
Speaker 1: in his cell, Richard passed half of the blades of

620
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:06,120
Speaker 1: David next door and the two men went to work.

621
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:09,120
Speaker 1: They started to slowly cut the steel walls of their cells.

622
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:11,680
Speaker 1: They will wait until the evening when other inmates from

623
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:14,719
Speaker 1: other blocks were allowed to use the common recreation areas. Now,

624
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 1: Richard and David would hang back and they all say

625
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:19,199
Speaker 1: they always said they were painting or something like that. So,

626
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 1: night by night, inch by inch, the men cut holes

627
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:24,760
Speaker 1: into the back walls. They covered the holes with their

628
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 1: own paintings, and that's when the plan really began.

629
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 2: Hold on, they're cutting a wall. They're cutting a hole

630
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 2: in a wall.

631
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:34,359
Speaker 3: The wall is made of How do you how do

632
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:35,760
Speaker 3: you cut a hole in a wall, even if you

633
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:36,640
Speaker 3: have a hacksaw?

634
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 2: How do you even do that.

635
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 1: With a lot of patients? Joe, Yeah, no, no, no, overlords,

636
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 1: was this a what they were hacking at?

637
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 4: The concrete?

638
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 2: Was it the bars? No, they couldn't do it the

639
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 2: bar the bars.

640
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 4: Yes, their cell walls were made of steel.

641
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 2: Wow, and you can do that with a hacksaw, with

642
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:56,400
Speaker 2: a hacksaw blade, yes, jeez. And you're right.

643
00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 1: Patients, Yes, absolutely, patients And yeah.

644
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:01,520
Speaker 2: Okay, so they just this is a long term project.

645
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:03,800
Speaker 1: You know, a lot of when when you hear about

646
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 1: a lot of these escape stories, there is this sort

647
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 1: of sense of shame of like man if like. Some

648
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 1: of these require a lot of mental fortitude and planning

649
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 1: and patience and hard work, and you can just imagine

650
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 1: what people under different circumstances with more help might have

651
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:19,600
Speaker 1: been able to do had they applied this to something else.

652
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 2: That's exactly right, that's exact.

653
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's entrepreneurial to do to pull all that shit

654
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:26,600
Speaker 3: off and take the initiative and like plan ahead.

655
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, one hundred percent. So behind the back walls

656
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 1: there was a whole nest of pipes and conduits for

657
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:34,720
Speaker 1: plumbing and electricity that went to every cell and along

658
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 1: with them there were catwalks that spread through the prison

659
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 1: to allow for maintenance. David was able to then walk

660
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 1: all the way from Honor Block, through the next prison

661
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 1: laundry and even under the next cell block. But you know,

662
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 1: the whole prison was like a maze. So now that

663
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:50,480
Speaker 1: they were outside of their cells, David and Richard needed

664
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:52,600
Speaker 1: to find a route all the way out of prison,

665
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 1: and they needed to do it at night. Now do

666
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 1: you remember what tool might come in useful here?

667
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:00,960
Speaker 2: Uh? The glasses with the Yes.

668
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 1: There you go. So they were using the flashlied glasses

669
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 1: they got from Tilly. Then Richard and David started planning,

670
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 1: all planning way through. They slowly selected cement walls and

671
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:12,719
Speaker 1: metal grates for their escape, and then night by night

672
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:15,560
Speaker 1: they spend time cutting holes into each one, so over

673
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 1: time they carved the path through the various buildings toward

674
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:20,720
Speaker 1: the outer wall. Tilly continued to pass them more and

675
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 1: more tools, and eventually they gave a ball pretense. They

676
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 1: just wanted heavy heavy duty workloves concrete, drill beats, chisels,

677
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 1: more hacks aw blades, and all kinds of stuff.

678
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:33,320
Speaker 3: And no one's noticing this is everyone Tilly's rooting for

679
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 3: them to get out, which is a little confusing because

680
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:38,920
Speaker 3: it seems like she's on I don't know, having a

681
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:41,520
Speaker 3: positive experience with them being in jail.

682
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 2: So does she.

683
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 1: Maybe when they're out of jail, they can continue this

684
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:47,360
Speaker 1: on their run, right, Maybe.

685
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 2: That's the she thinks they're gonna stick around.

686
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:52,280
Speaker 1: I think so. I mean, by this point, if you're

687
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:55,360
Speaker 1: so psychologically addicted to somebody, which is what it sounds like, right.

688
00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 2: Then it's believe anything.

689
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:00,480
Speaker 1: Yeah you're And so Tilly had a unique way to

690
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 1: get them inside right at home. She packed the tools

691
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:07,240
Speaker 1: inside blocks of ground beef and put them into the freezer.

692
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:09,800
Speaker 2: And the really beef comes back into this story.

693
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, ma'am, dude, this is we are sponsored by the

694
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 1: beef industry.

695
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 2: It wasn't nearly expired, hope.

696
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:17,400
Speaker 1: So let me make a little segue to think our

697
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 1: sponsors and e m right, nearly expire meat for all

698
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:24,080
Speaker 1: the masses. Yes, it's cheaper than regular meat and only

699
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 1: slightly more dangerous.

700
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:27,520
Speaker 4: It's what's for dinner, button beef.

701
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 1: What's for dinner? The next morning? Is he carry the

702
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 1: frozen meat into the tailory shop. Then she arranged for

703
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 1: a prison guard to deliver the loaded meat to Richard's cell.

704
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 1: It went so she got another prison guard to deliver

705
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:44,120
Speaker 1: the meat. That's fucked up, so it went without a hitch.

706
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:46,560
Speaker 1: So next time they put in an order for tools,

707
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:49,360
Speaker 1: she did the exact same thing. Now. Eventually, Richard and

708
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 1: David found a steam pipe system and that connected to

709
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 1: a power plant outside the prison wall. So David cut

710
00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 1: a hole in the side of a pipe that was

711
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 1: large enough for men to crawl in, and at last

712
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:10,000
Speaker 1: they had a clear path to the outside. The final

713
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 1: plan for the escape was drawn up like this. Richard

714
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 1: and David would leave life sized dummies in their beds,

715
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:19,280
Speaker 1: made from bundles of old clothes so the prison guards

716
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:21,800
Speaker 1: wouldn't notice they were missing. It's like Ferris Vieler kind

717
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 1: of and they loved eighties coming of age movies. Step two,

718
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 1: with a guitar case full of supplies, they would climb

719
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:30,360
Speaker 1: through the holes in the back of their cells and

720
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:33,320
Speaker 1: onto the catwalk and follow the path through the walls

721
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:35,719
Speaker 1: and tunnels that led to the outside of the prison walls.

722
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 1: They would then crawl through a manhole up to the

723
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 1: nearby street and flee the prison.

724
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 4: Step three, This is fucked up.

725
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,880
Speaker 1: Tilly would drug her husband with narcotics that Richard had

726
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 1: been prescribed by the prison doctors. That way, he wouldn't

727
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:51,239
Speaker 1: notice when she left in the car to pick up

728
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 1: Richard and David.

729
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 4: Step four.

730
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:56,800
Speaker 1: When the two escapees hopped into Tilly's cars, she would

731
00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 1: drive them home. Then the pair of them would murder

732
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 1: her husband, and the three of them would then collect

733
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:05,360
Speaker 1: the life insurance policy and write right off into the sunset.

734
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:06,800
Speaker 2: Good lord, Wait.

735
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 1: Wasn't that the whole fucking reason that she was helping

736
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 1: them because she was afraid they might hurt her husband?

737
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 4: Like, doesn't that that just doesn't you.

738
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 1: Know what I'm saying?

739
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:16,120
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, you did say that she was scared for

740
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:16,960
Speaker 2: the safety of her house.

741
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:18,520
Speaker 4: It just seems like an I think she was just

742
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 4: all in.

743
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 1: Also likely, like how long do they think it takes

744
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 1: a file an insurance claim? Like how were they just

745
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 1: going to like wait inside the fucking house for money

746
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 1: for months? You know?

747
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 3: And I guess then they have to make the murder

748
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 3: look like they can't cut them up and throw them

749
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,360
Speaker 3: in the river. Yeah, I have to do something else

750
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 3: pretty tricky if they're going to get the life insurance money.

751
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:40,880
Speaker 4: It's so macarv Am I saying that word correctly? My uh,

752
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:42,120
Speaker 4: I don't know macarv.

753
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 2: There is no correct way to say that.

754
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 4: Okay, macabre. It is incredibly macabay.

755
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 3: That was the most correct I've actually ever heard that

756
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 3: word pronounced.

757
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:54,360
Speaker 1: So Richard and David packed their guitar cases with the

758
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 1: necessities Pepperoni sticks, toilet paper, and electric shaver and forty

759
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 1: granola bars because they were watching their figure. That's just kidding.

760
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 2: I don't know what before shaver. This based on a shaver.

761
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:08,360
Speaker 1: Also, Also, I would not have thought of toilet paper,

762
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:09,760
Speaker 1: but it makes a lot of sense.

763
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:12,280
Speaker 2: That sounds more necessary than the shaver.

764
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 1: I would expect regular Joe to thinker that up, you know,

765
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:17,640
Speaker 1: because regular show take a shit in the bud. I

766
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:19,560
Speaker 1: just wouldn't have thought of it. Also, an electric shaver,

767
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 1: maybe to change their look. That would make more sense.

768
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:23,880
Speaker 2: Oh okay, okay.

769
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:26,000
Speaker 1: So Tilly even brought them in a compass, the New

770
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:27,759
Speaker 1: York State, pages of an atlas, and.

771
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:28,720
Speaker 4: Lots of black pepper.

772
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:31,399
Speaker 1: They were hoping to use the black pepper to keep

773
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 1: dogs off their scent, which I have to admit, it's

774
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:34,320
Speaker 1: pretty fucking clever.

775
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 2: Does that work?

776
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:37,360
Speaker 1: I don't know if it worked or not. Did it

777
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 1: work everything?

778
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:40,040
Speaker 2: As if I need to keep dogs off myself?

779
00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:42,839
Speaker 1: No, no, no, it's so shady. I get every other way

780
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:44,560
Speaker 1: You're like, but what was the success rate for that?

781
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:48,920
Speaker 1: So Richard gave So Richard gave Tilly the narcotics he

782
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 1: had saved up, and the tunnels were complete and everything

783
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:53,720
Speaker 1: was ready to go. So on the night of June fifth,

784
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 1: twenty fifteen, Richard and David left their prison cells for

785
00:34:57,200 --> 00:34:59,279
Speaker 1: the last time. As they made they were through their

786
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:02,080
Speaker 1: escape route, they left notes at the spots that had

787
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:05,240
Speaker 1: been difficult to overcome. At a pipe between B Block

788
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:07,240
Speaker 1: and C Block, they left a picture of an alien

789
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:10,120
Speaker 1: and a little tagline that said, are you trying me punk.

790
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:14,080
Speaker 1: I think they would have workshopped that time if you're king,

791
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:16,439
Speaker 1: yeah one percent.

792
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 2: Wow. Also they're having fun doing that.

793
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 4: They're having fun.

794
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:22,879
Speaker 1: Yeah. Also, Like, I don't blame you, dude. Like most

795
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:25,279
Speaker 1: people's conundrum with me is that they never know when

796
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 1: I'm fucking serious, you know, So I would make a

797
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:30,279
Speaker 1: terrible doctor. I'm like, no, man, you really have to

798
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:34,640
Speaker 1: go now there I this fucking gut At the final

799
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:37,879
Speaker 1: outer wall, where they had spent thirty nights sawing through

800
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 1: the steam pipe, their notes said have a nice day.

801
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:41,000
Speaker 3: Wow.

802
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 1: Yeah. So then Richard and David got to the manhole

803
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:48,239
Speaker 1: cover and this was it. They were free. But thank

804
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:51,759
Speaker 1: you for that manhole cover opening outside. Yeah, but when

805
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:54,360
Speaker 1: they popped out into the street, there was no one there.

806
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:57,359
Speaker 1: Turns out the Tilly, the accomplice in their ghetaway driver,

807
00:35:57,440 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 1: got cold feet.

808
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 4: She did didn't feel so confident in.

809
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 1: The plan after all, at the last second, something about

810
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:06,239
Speaker 1: drugging her husband and running off with these murders.

811
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 2: Killing and killing him. That was part of the plan.

812
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 1: Too, right, Yeah, I just didn't sit right.

813
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:10,400
Speaker 2: Good for Tilly.

814
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:13,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, instead of hitting her husband with a roofye, Tilly

815
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:16,359
Speaker 1: had a panic attack at nine pm. Her husband drove

816
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:18,600
Speaker 1: her to the hospital where she was admitted for observation.

817
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:21,399
Speaker 1: Later she would say that she never intended to drug

818
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:23,319
Speaker 1: and kill her husband. It just took her this long

819
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:27,239
Speaker 1: to finally abandon the plan. Who that was really at

820
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:29,879
Speaker 1: the eleventh hour to Tilly. But that left these two

821
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:31,920
Speaker 1: escapees standing in the middle of the street at midnight

822
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 1: with no driver and no Golden Life insurance policy on

823
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:36,880
Speaker 1: their side for their dumb plan. So they decided to

824
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:40,160
Speaker 1: haul ass into the nearby forest of Little Siberia. And

825
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:43,439
Speaker 1: this is where we come full circle. Okay. So once

826
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:45,919
Speaker 1: they were out into the woods, they started breaking into

827
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:48,920
Speaker 1: hunting cabins. Remember the moonshine and the weed and all

828
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:51,960
Speaker 1: that stuff. Oh yeah, okay, So at one hunting cabin

829
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 1: they even found a transit to radio, which was lucky

830
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 1: for them because the cops started a huge manhunt. It

831
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:01,200
Speaker 1: was the US Marshalls, it was the forest rangers, it

832
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:04,680
Speaker 1: was everybody, border patrol, helicopters, the whole thing, right, And

833
00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 1: that's where the to escape he split. Now, David wanted

834
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:10,760
Speaker 1: to run for the border, but Richard was just done caring.

835
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 1: So instead of heading back into the forest, he actually

836
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:16,960
Speaker 1: took a shotgun down to the road and started shooting

837
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 1: and passing cars. Man he hit a family camphor Ban

838
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:21,320
Speaker 1: and they called in the location.

839
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, wildly fucked up.

840
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:26,239
Speaker 1: But that also meant that the cops knew exactly where

841
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:29,000
Speaker 1: he was, so they closed in and they actually killed

842
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:29,959
Speaker 1: him before he had.

843
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:31,239
Speaker 4: A chance to shoot at them too.

844
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:33,560
Speaker 1: And as for David, he did try to make a

845
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 1: break for it, but he was caught on the road

846
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:38,200
Speaker 1: to Canada before he could escape across the border.

847
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:38,880
Speaker 2: He survived.

848
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, so he had been shot, but he survived. So

849
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:43,640
Speaker 1: he was brought in and he told the story of

850
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:46,880
Speaker 1: his escape in great detail to the investigators, to the police,

851
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:50,440
Speaker 1: and to the prison officials, resulting in over five hundred

852
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:53,880
Speaker 1: pages of interview transcripts. You know, he even compared their

853
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:57,839
Speaker 1: escape to Shoshank redemption, but he said, Shashank ain't got

854
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:02,480
Speaker 1: shit on me. So after such a quazy escape, there

855
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:04,920
Speaker 1: was a scramble to figure out how it had all happened.

856
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:08,279
Speaker 1: Investigators interviewed one hundred and seventy people to help peace

857
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:11,240
Speaker 1: together the puzzle. According to the report, there were many

858
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 1: points of failure.

859
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 3: Can I just pause and be the nerd for a second,

860
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:17,960
Speaker 3: one more time. If we're talking about, oh, hey, we

861
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:22,320
Speaker 3: don't have money to pay for mental health treatment of kids.

862
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:24,880
Speaker 2: That's too expensive. How are we going to spend that money?

863
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 3: Okay, cut to now X years later, the kid didn't

864
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:31,719
Speaker 3: get mental health treatment, And now how expensive do you

865
00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:34,759
Speaker 3: think it is for them to be conducting this investigation

866
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:35,680
Speaker 3: with how many people?

867
00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:38,520
Speaker 1: Did you say? They're interviewing one hundred and seventy people?

868
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:40,960
Speaker 3: You know, I mean, I don't know what the number is,

869
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 3: but that's so expensive now that they're they're having to

870
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:44,839
Speaker 3: clean up this.

871
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:47,880
Speaker 1: So much power, so expensive, so deliberate.

872
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:50,719
Speaker 3: Right, it's the it's the old thing of like if

873
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:52,239
Speaker 3: you don't want to, you know, spend a lot of

874
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:55,279
Speaker 3: money on your doctor's bills, just like eat healthy. Right,

875
00:38:56,000 --> 00:39:00,440
Speaker 3: If we just spent some money up front on taking

876
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:03,720
Speaker 3: care of people who are mentally ill, especially like you said, kids,

877
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:05,520
Speaker 3: I thought that was a really important point you made.

878
00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:09,359
Speaker 3: Maybe we wouldn't be spending the enormous budget it must

879
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 3: have taken to clean up this fucking mess of this

880
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:13,640
Speaker 3: guardank people, to.

881
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 1: Accuse people, to interview people, and then to put them

882
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:18,640
Speaker 1: back into prison.

883
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:21,840
Speaker 3: Right, the practical, cold, hard like dollars and cents of

884
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:25,000
Speaker 3: it would actually make so much more sense if we

885
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:30,080
Speaker 3: were helping people earlier instead of trying to incarcerate and

886
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:31,360
Speaker 3: punish and shit later on.

887
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:34,800
Speaker 4: And it's such a powerful note to end on, my friend.

888
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:37,799
Speaker 1: That's our story, and I hope the takeaway for our

889
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:40,680
Speaker 1: audience is that there is such a bigger conversation here

890
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 1: about not just a prison system, but like how you know,

891
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:46,360
Speaker 1: it's just really easy to wash our hands on people

892
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:49,280
Speaker 1: that are just that we just see as the dejective

893
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:52,719
Speaker 1: ones from society. But it's just so important. And also, listen, man,

894
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:54,600
Speaker 1: this is a great credit to you. I got to

895
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:57,359
Speaker 1: tell you before we have to let you go. We're

896
00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:00,000
Speaker 1: firing you. Apparently I don't know way how to hire you.

897
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:04,280
Speaker 1: But you're so well versed in the business of empathy.

898
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 4: You understand what I mean.

899
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:07,799
Speaker 1: And I think that's a big credit to you, man,

900
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:11,839
Speaker 1: And I think we need more people like you in

901
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:14,319
Speaker 1: a position in positions and power. Man. And so when

902
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:17,800
Speaker 1: you run for president, I would like to put myself

903
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:18,720
Speaker 1: off vice president.

904
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:21,520
Speaker 3: Let's do it perfect. You mean you president, I want

905
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:23,120
Speaker 3: to be VP. You're your president?

906
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 4: No, all right, brother, much love to you. Joe We'll

907
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:26,919
Speaker 4: see you next time.

908
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:29,000
Speaker 3: Thank you so much, brother, love you dude, good to

909
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:30,239
Speaker 3: see you. Thanks everybody.

910
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:34,440
Speaker 4: Bye.

911
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:38,520
Speaker 1: Greatest Escapes is a production of iHeartRadio and Film Nation

912
00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:42,640
Speaker 1: Entertainment in association with Gilded Audio. Our executive producers are

913
00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:45,520
Speaker 1: me Or Turo Castro, Alyssa Martino and Milan Popelka from

914
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:49,320
Speaker 1: Film Nation Entertainment, Andrew Chug and Witning Donaldson from Gilded Audio,

915
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:52,600
Speaker 1: and Dylan Fagan from iHeartRadio. The show was produced and

916
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:55,799
Speaker 1: edited by Carl Nellis and Ben Chug, who are also, respectively,

917
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:59,279
Speaker 1: our research overlord and music overlord. Our associate producer is

918
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:02,279
Speaker 1: Tory Smith, who our other overlord. Nick Dooley is our

919
00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:06,120
Speaker 1: technical director. Additional editing by Whitney Donaldson. Special thanks to

920
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:10,160
Speaker 1: Alison Cohen, Dan Welsh, Ben Riiseek, Sarah Joyner, nicki Stein,

921
00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:28,440
Speaker 1: Olivia Canny and Kelsey Albright. Hey, thank you so much

922
00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:30,680
Speaker 1: for listening, and if you're enjoying the show, please drop

923
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 1: a rating or review. My mom will call you each

924
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:36,040
Speaker 1: personally and thank you, and we'll see you all next week.