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Speaker 1: Please. He's The Drive with Dale Lolly and Matt Williamson,

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Speaker 1: home of the Black and Goal Steelers Nation Radio. Welcome

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Speaker 1: to the Drive. I'm Dale Lollly, he is Matt Williamson

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Speaker 1: and Matt. It's a Friday in Pittsburgh. It's the Friday

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Speaker 1: after the Super Bowl. Uh. So we've we've now had

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Speaker 1: a week to kind of divest ourselves and move away

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Speaker 1: from the end of the season. But now we're you know,

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Speaker 1: we're a little less than a month away from the

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Speaker 1: start of free agency. We had a couple of weeks

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Speaker 1: or less than two weeks to the to the NFL

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Speaker 1: scouting combine, so lots of stuff starting to happen here

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Speaker 1: and one thing happened for the Steelers, a couple of things.

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Speaker 1: Actually we really didn't talk about this either. So uh

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Speaker 1: in the last couple of weeks, Brian flores Is hired

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Speaker 1: as a defensive coordinator for the Minnesota because we did

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Speaker 1: talk a little bit about that. Uh. And then on

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Speaker 1: Wednesday of this week, Uh, John Mitchell, longtime Steelers assistant coach, retires.

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Speaker 1: Mitch had been with the team for twenty nine years. Uh. Really,

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Speaker 1: you know, for a long time he was the defensive

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Speaker 1: line coach who built you know, the Blitzberg style defense

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Speaker 1: of the two thousand's um you know it was Dicklebo's defense.

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Speaker 1: But John Mitchell, you know, helping mccraft. Uh, you know

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Speaker 1: Casey Hampton and Aaron Smith and Brett Keisel and you

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Speaker 1: know those those kind of players, Chris Hoke, uh, turning

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Speaker 1: those guys into a you know, one of the better

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Speaker 1: defensive lines in the league. You couldn't run against the Steelers. No.

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Speaker 1: First of all, I think it's miraculous the longevity some

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Speaker 1: of the members of this organization have, particularly coaches, because

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Speaker 1: it just doesn't happen anywhere else, you know, I mean

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Speaker 1: to put in twenty nine years or Dick Hoe or

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Speaker 1: the head coaches or I mean some of the guys

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Speaker 1: that have just been stalwarts of this organization. And Coach

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Speaker 1: Mitchell might be somebody, you know, our listeners don't even

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Speaker 1: know who he is, you know, I mean some of

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Speaker 1: the guys that are under the radar a little bit.

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Speaker 1: There's some of the old line coaches, things like that.

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Speaker 1: It's just amazing to me. And as you were saying that,

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Speaker 1: I just sat sat there thinking, you listed four really

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Speaker 1: good players. Hooke, Aaron Smith, Keisel Hampton. Hampton was the

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Speaker 1: first round pick. The other guys were drafted seven fifth.

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Speaker 1: I mean Aaron Smith was like, correct me wrong. He

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Speaker 1: was like to sixty when they drafted him, right, Uh,

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Speaker 1: he was like more like two seventy two eighty he

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Speaker 1: I mean, he's he spent a year on scholarship. You know,

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Speaker 1: I actually talked to him. I wrote a story about

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Speaker 1: it today. Uh, Steelers dot come by five for Friday. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know he was he was a mid round draft

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Speaker 1: pick out of you know, Northern Colorado. U was a

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Speaker 1: productive player in Northern Colorado, but he had to learn

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Speaker 1: to play the way the Steelers wanted him to play.

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Speaker 1: And you know he's he's like that first year he

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Speaker 1: thought he thought that. Uh, Mitch hated him, like he

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Speaker 1: was constantly writing me, and you know it was just

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Speaker 1: he would he would kind of break you down as

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Speaker 1: a player and then rebuild you to do what he wanted.

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Speaker 1: And and you know, Smith said that that everything he

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Speaker 1: became as a player, he credits to John Mitchell. Uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, in the thirteen years he spent in the league,

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Speaker 1: he said, and not just that, but he called him

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Speaker 1: a father figure. Um, you know, a guy that that

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Speaker 1: had that kind of impact in his life. I can imagine.

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Speaker 1: I'm from what I remember Smith as a draft prospect

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Speaker 1: was four three up the field guy, you know I mean,

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Speaker 1: and they just kept balking him up, and he kept

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Speaker 1: learning the techniques. And I remember being at Pitt and

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Speaker 1: UH coach Junko, our defensive tackle coach, used a lot

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Speaker 1: of the Steeler techniques. You know, use your use both

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Speaker 1: hands and your helmet as a as a a triangle

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Speaker 1: for taking on blocks when you had two gap and

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Speaker 1: things like that. And you know better than I would,

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Speaker 1: but it seemed to me the coach Mitchell was is

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Speaker 1: you know, as respected of a assistant coaches you'll ever find,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean. You know, if you look

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Speaker 1: at the guy, Um, you know he was. He was

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Speaker 1: the first black player. He and another gentleman were the

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Speaker 1: first two black players in Alabama. He was, you know,

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Speaker 1: he was a captain on those teams under Bear Bryant,

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Speaker 1: and you know was hired by Bear Bryant as an

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Speaker 1: assistant coach. Um. You know, so you know, you're talking

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Speaker 1: about a guy who has direct lines to one of

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Speaker 1: the greatest coaches of all time. Before he came to

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Speaker 1: the Steelers, he was on Bill Belichick staff in Cleveland. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, and when Belichick got fired, it just so

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Speaker 1: happened the Steelers were looking for a defensive line coach

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Speaker 1: and boom, there it is. You get the John Mitchell

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Speaker 1: and he's you know, one of the best of all

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Speaker 1: time at that at that position. And you know, even

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Speaker 1: to this point, you know there if you look at, um,

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Speaker 1: the Steelers situation with that defensive line, mean, Mitch was

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Speaker 1: still at practice all the time. Um. But even at

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Speaker 1: that Carl Dunbar, the Steelers defensive line coach, played under,

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Speaker 1: you know, trained under Mitch. Yeah, I say he has

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Speaker 1: bamatized too, and you know, right, so I mean you're

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Speaker 1: still getting that same similar style of coach. You know.

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Speaker 1: The one thing that they do now, you know, back

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Speaker 1: in you know when in the in the day before

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Speaker 1: they went in and got to you know, Heyward and

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Speaker 1: to it. Um. You know, those guys weren't expected their

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Speaker 1: news that you rushed the passer, but you didn't rush

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Speaker 1: the passer, if you know. Yeah, you know, and now

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Speaker 1: they're asked to do more of that dirty work. They

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Speaker 1: don't too gap quite as much as they used to. Um,

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Speaker 1: but it's still um you know, many of the techniques

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Speaker 1: that John Mitchell taught the Steelers still employ. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: that's where I was gonna go with his next two is.

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Speaker 1: You know, I didn't realize the Belichick connection, but coach

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Speaker 1: Mitch then worked for at least four Hall of Fame coaches,

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Speaker 1: you know, Bear Bryant, Belichick power, you know, so they

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Speaker 1: found effect on him, and he had a profound effect

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Speaker 1: on the defensive lineman. But that's what I was gonna say,

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Speaker 1: is the Steelers techniques we're much different than what the

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Speaker 1: rest of the league was was coaching at that point,

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Speaker 1: you know. I mean, it wasn't carbon copy. Um, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure that's not how I don't know if he

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Speaker 1: was brought up with those techniques or not, or if

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Speaker 1: he had to learn them or whatever, but everyone remembers,

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Speaker 1: Well maybe I shouldn't say that because I'm an old

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Speaker 1: man now, but I remember the days when you could

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Speaker 1: get Joey Porter and Jason Gilden in the third round

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Speaker 1: because nobody was running the same defense as a Steeler.

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Speaker 1: They were first round type talents. And the same was

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Speaker 1: true with noses and three four ends, and but you

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Speaker 1: had to coach them up because nobody played that stuff

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Speaker 1: in college, you know, right, they didn't. And that leads

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Speaker 1: me to where I wanted to go. And I appreciate

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Speaker 1: everything that John Mitchell did. And again his stories a

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Speaker 1: great one. Um. You know that well deserving of of

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Speaker 1: you know, the go off into retirement and enjoy yourself

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Speaker 1: and and uh, you know he put his time in

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Speaker 1: in in the NFL. Fifty plus years of coaching. Um,

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Speaker 1: that's that's a long time, you know. Uh, we had

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Speaker 1: a psychiatrist or psychologist, I mean that used to come

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Speaker 1: talk to the Pit organization two or three times a

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Speaker 1: year and he was great. And one thing I remember

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Speaker 1: about him is he said, there's kings and there's kingmakers,

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Speaker 1: and Coach Mitch is a kingmaker, you know what I mean,

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Speaker 1: Like you know what knows that he's the one the

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Speaker 1: podium or whatever, but he makes you know, Bear Belichick,

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Speaker 1: Tomlin Cower the king. Yeah. And you know you talk

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Speaker 1: about the mun Check's millionaires, the guys that that you know,

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Speaker 1: Mike Munschack helped make millions of dollars taking an undrafted guy.

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Speaker 1: Largely the same thing with John Mitchell. I mean, he

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Speaker 1: would take the undrafted guys and turned them into Stars.

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Speaker 1: Brackish was the seventh round draft pick. Chris Hope was

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Speaker 1: was undrafted. You know, these guys, these guys made a

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Speaker 1: lot of money off, you know, and I know they

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Speaker 1: all appreciate everything that he did for him. But the

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Speaker 1: tough love, uh. He used to used to always go

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Speaker 1: over watch Mitsche coach and listen to what he said

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Speaker 1: to those guys, because you don'ten get a good chuckle

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Speaker 1: out of it. He was like, I referenced Miche Lombardi

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Speaker 1: a lot. I read his book and I listened to

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Speaker 1: his podcast, and he's been around the block too, and

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Speaker 1: he's like, the best D line coaches are lion tamers.

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Speaker 1: They have their whip because the best D lineman are

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Speaker 1: obscene athletes. A lot of them can lay in the

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Speaker 1: prairie and not work real hard, and then when they

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Speaker 1: decided to go get the antelope, go get the antelope.

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Speaker 1: But you know steeler D lineman never would you say, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that guy takes a lot of plays off, but his

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Speaker 1: highs are good. You know, they're every there. They all

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Speaker 1: run to the football, they all play hard. Some of

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Speaker 1: them were more talented and more successful than others, but

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Speaker 1: effort was never an issue. No, no, for sure. Um.

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Speaker 1: So when I was looking up some of the stuff

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Speaker 1: on on John Mitchell for my my story that I

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Speaker 1: wrote today on my five for Friday, UM, I was

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Speaker 1: looking back over the Steelers drafts, Matt, and I did

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Speaker 1: so in the in the eyes of Okay, how many

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Speaker 1: times have they had a situation where they had a

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Speaker 1: two three premium picks, three premium draft picks? Not often? No,

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Speaker 1: it hadn't happened often. So I looked back at it. Really,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think you go back to the two

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Speaker 1: thousand four draft. Um. And that was, of course the

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Speaker 1: Ben Roethlisberger's draft. They had. They had earned it that year. Um,

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Speaker 1: there's no fins or buts about it. But they didn't

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Speaker 1: have three premium picks that year. They had two and

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Speaker 1: so and so they hook Umlisberger at eleven and Copley

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Speaker 1: at thirty eight, and they got Max starts in the

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Speaker 1: third round. Which Max starts in the third round? It picks.

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Speaker 1: I looked at the premium picks. Is two picks in

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Speaker 1: the top forty, kay, or even what they have today,

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Speaker 1: like three picks in the top fifty, right, And to

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Speaker 1: get into that situation, you really have to go back

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Speaker 1: so they had in uh, two thousand one, and this

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Speaker 1: is the one that interested me. Okay, they took they

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Speaker 1: traded back three spots and took Casey Hampton at nineteen.

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Speaker 1: Then they traded up to thirty nine and got Kendrell Bell.

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Speaker 1: So they picked nineteen and thirty nine, which is very

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Speaker 1: similar to the spots where they're at now. Yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 1: and completely changed that defense. Yeah right, I mean talk

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Speaker 1: about change in the front seven overnight. And in this

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Speaker 1: case this year, you're gonna you can wedge one pick

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Speaker 1: in between those two, you know from down when home

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Speaker 1: was a trade up. You know, maybe there's a tackle

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Speaker 1: or a tight end or whatever in there too, or corner.

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Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, Hampton and Bell to this team they

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Speaker 1: went in two thousand they had the seventh ranked defense

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Speaker 1: in the league. It was a good defense, so you know,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't a great defense, but they had some of

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Speaker 1: the pieces were there, the Joey Porter's, the Aaron Smith's,

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Speaker 1: you know, guys like that. Then you added Casey Hampton

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Speaker 1: and Kendrill Bell to the equation up the middle, and

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Speaker 1: Bell was an immediate superstar from what I remember. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he was. He was the defensive Rookie of the year. Uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, just telling me, hey, go get the football.

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Speaker 1: I mean he was kind of Michael Parsons last year.

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Speaker 1: I mean he was like that. He was like that, right, Um,

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Speaker 1: but that transformed that defense. They were number one the

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Speaker 1: next year in two thousand one, after takeing after taking

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Speaker 1: these guys, they went from from being seventh in total

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Speaker 1: yards to number one, and they were number one in

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Speaker 1: total yards allowed by like three d yards, so basically

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Speaker 1: a full game's worth, yeah, of yardage that they were

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Speaker 1: number one was the nose tackle, the missing piece. I

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Speaker 1: mean I remember they had. Okay, but he had to

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Speaker 1: be coming to an end. Well, he had just been

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Speaker 1: drafted a couple of years earlier, but he was going

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Speaker 1: to be a free agent. Uh, because Steve was drafted

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Speaker 1: in Uh I'm looking here, I got all this stuff

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Speaker 1: here in front of me. Anyway, so Steve was, you know,

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Speaker 1: he was he was gonna be or come sorry, Kendrick

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Speaker 1: Clancy was there as well, and they've taken taking Kendrick

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Speaker 1: Clancy the year before. Uh, in the third round. But

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Speaker 1: obviously they looked at and said we're gonna stop the run. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we are going to stop the run. Now maybe the

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Speaker 1: game has played a little bit differently today, There's no

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Speaker 1: there's no maybe about it. It is pick this year. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but so many teams are now going back to running

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Speaker 1: the football. Did you get ahead of the curve a

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Speaker 1: little bit and and take a guy like that? Now

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Speaker 1: he better have some pass rush ability. But are we

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Speaker 1: overlooking a guy like Brian Barresi at seventeen. I don't

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Speaker 1: think we are. I would. I think he would be

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Speaker 1: a fine pick and could do a lot of cam

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Speaker 1: Heywards stuff. Um. I don't have a great example to

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Speaker 1: put it because prec is Paul. He doesn't look like Hampton.

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Speaker 1: I mean, how many Hampton's out there anymore? But he

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Speaker 1: could play the nose right right. I'm with you though

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Speaker 1: that wire teams running the ball or First of all,

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Speaker 1: I think it's easier on their own lineman who aren't

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Speaker 1: nearly as talented as the d lineman they're trying to block.

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Speaker 1: They get to deliver the blow and instead of taking it,

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Speaker 1: accepting it right. And I also think a huge, huge trend,

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Speaker 1: especially this last year, was defenses are saying we're gonna

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Speaker 1: defend the We're gonna defend the run with lighter boxes.

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Speaker 1: We wanted. We want too high safety so we don't

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Speaker 1: get beat over the top, and therefore we're going to

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Speaker 1: give up a little more per carry. If you can

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Speaker 1: sustain consistent long drives as the Steelers did, we'll live

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Speaker 1: with it. But I also think to your point that's

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Speaker 1: there might be some value in lynd Val Joseph's and

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Speaker 1: Noma kong sus who were just picked up mid season

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Speaker 1: by a Super Bowl team and pure most pure run stuffers.

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Speaker 1: I mean, give me a little push in the passer

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Speaker 1: or but if I'm gonna if I'm designing a defense

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Speaker 1: to play with a lighter box, if I can put

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Speaker 1: not Sara Goosa and atoms, but you know what I mean,

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Speaker 1: like serious beef between the tackles and let my my

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Speaker 1: thin linebackers that are built for cover be protected and

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Speaker 1: still have two high safeties. You're not going to stop

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Speaker 1: the runs like these Steeler teams you're referencing, but you'll

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Speaker 1: be able to compete that way. But yeah, and you

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Speaker 1: also have two very good, uh you know, base sickly

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Speaker 1: defensive ends in that situation, if you've got your base

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Speaker 1: three four on the photo, even if you even if

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Speaker 1: you're playing in the nickel you've got t J. Watt

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Speaker 1: and Alex Highsmith screaming off the end. M you might, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're you're looking at one one of those. You know.

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Speaker 1: T J. Watt is probably the best pure pass rusher

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Speaker 1: and Steelers history, I think, so, yeah, so you're going

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Speaker 1: to get negative plays right right, right right, and so

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Speaker 1: like Cam Heyward can't push interior. So I just looked

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Speaker 1: at that. I'm like that, you know, and then on likewise,

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Speaker 1: are we overlooking? And again I'm not one. I'm beyond

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Speaker 1: the point now where I think that you should take

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Speaker 1: an inside linebacker in the first round. M hm. But

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Speaker 1: thirty two or forty nine right now now I'm going

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Speaker 1: to consider it. So I know this is an exact

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Speaker 1: angle you were talking about, but I play. We've done

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Speaker 1: this long time, and I was about to bring up

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Speaker 1: linebackers if you hadn't believe or not in Chalker. But

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Speaker 1: I would rather to go to extremes. I would rather

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Speaker 1: have Casey Hampton added to this team then Earl Holmes.

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Speaker 1: I wouldna say Kirkland, but he was too freaky. And

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Speaker 1: what I mean by that is I can afford to

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Speaker 1: get slow and big and old school at nose. But

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Speaker 1: I still want Fred Warner's my linebacker, you know what

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Speaker 1: I mean, because they have to cover first. Yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: I hear you where you draft them necessarily, I mean

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Speaker 1: especially from round two on. But on this throwback conversation,

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Speaker 1: I don't want the old school thumper middle linebackers. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, those guys don't fit anymore. But I think

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Speaker 1: you know, you can find guys in that in this

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Speaker 1: you know, second third rounds talking speaking Fred Warner, that's

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Speaker 1: where he went, um Leonard, you know, yeah, that these

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Speaker 1: guys are are running cover guys who, by the way,

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Speaker 1: also off the run. And if you have a Casey

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Speaker 1: Hampton like nose tackle keeps he keeps those guys clean

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Speaker 1: exactly exactly. And truly, the Casey Hampton's were the will

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Speaker 1: Fork and Hampton I was lumped together because I thought

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Speaker 1: they were the prototypes, the best of their era. And

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Speaker 1: now you want them more Vita Vea. You want him

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Speaker 1: to be six five, and maybe they don't have quite

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Speaker 1: as good leverage, but they can run a little bit more.

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Speaker 1: But still, if I could get Casey Hampton in the

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Speaker 1: second round this year, you know who's just an anvil?

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Speaker 1: He should be useful. Yeah, you're gonna find ways to

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Speaker 1: use him, and uh, I just you know, to me,

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Speaker 1: I just look at that and and you know when

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Speaker 1: I looked at at the improvement that that teammate, they

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Speaker 1: went from being nine and seven having the best record

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Speaker 1: in the a f C the next year. Yea. And

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Speaker 1: they did it with that defense. And a big reason

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Speaker 1: was there two draft picks, right, yeah, I mean those guys.

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Speaker 1: I can remember writing a story about that for a

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Speaker 1: playoff preview. I did a big feature on on what

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Speaker 1: Hampton and Ken drell Bell brought to that defense to

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Speaker 1: help transform it. Because the offense was the offense. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't a great offense on those for those teams, right,

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Speaker 1: but the defense became dominant and it was then dominant

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Speaker 1: for the next decade years to Yeah. Absolutely, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna take a break. He is Matt Williamson. I

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Speaker 1: am Dale Lally, and you can subscribe now to The

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Speaker 1: Drive on Steelers Nation Radio. Every episode we do is

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Speaker 1: available for you to download. Subscribe today through the Steelers

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Speaker 1: Mobile app, the I Heart Radio app, and wherever you

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Speaker 1: find your podcast. He is again, Matt Williamson, I'm Dale Lilly.

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Speaker 1: This is the Drive. We'll be back with more right

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Speaker 1: after this