Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio News.
Speaker 2: Joining us now as we widen the lens on this
Speaker 2: whole story involving Nvidia export controls and on a greater
Speaker 2: scale US China relations, is Nicholas Burns, the former US
Speaker 2: Ambassador to China and the Biden administration professor at Harvard's
Speaker 2: Belfast Center. Mister ambassador, welcome back to Bloomberg TV and Radio.
Speaker 2: It's great to have you. It seems all roads lead
Speaker 2: to China, or we're talking about in Nvidia or new
Speaker 2: tariffs on India. So let's start where we're already talking,
Speaker 2: and that's export controls in this idea of Nvidia opening
Speaker 2: once again a new market in China. There's even reporting
Speaker 2: today that in Nvidia is talking about a Blackwell chip
Speaker 2: that might be available scaled down version for the China market.
Speaker 2: But there's still no deal and from what we understand,
Speaker 2: no licenses to begin reselling these AI chips in China.
Speaker 2: Will it happen?
Speaker 3: This is going to be a consequential decision for the
Speaker 3: Trump administration. US policy for several years now, for three years,
Speaker 3: has been to deny to China those dual use exports
Speaker 3: like advanced chips for Ai purposes that might then help
Speaker 3: the People's Liberation Army to outcompete the United States military
Speaker 3: in this ferocious competition for military technology power that's underway
Speaker 3: and that will in many ways define the relationship. And
Speaker 3: you saw when President Trump permitted the sale of the
Speaker 3: Navidia and twenty chip, the Chinese government turned around and
Speaker 3: said that they had problems even they might not give
Speaker 3: authority to Chinese companies to purchase the chips because they
Speaker 3: suspected these chips could be problematic for them. And so
Speaker 3: now you have a second decision coming up by the
Speaker 3: Trump administration. I certainly hope that the Trump administration will
Speaker 3: be as tough minded as President Biden was deny this
Speaker 3: technology to China, because it's far more important that the
Speaker 3: United States weakened the People's Liberation Army and not strengthen
Speaker 3: it by allowing the sale of an advanced chip.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, if you talk to Jensen Wong about that,
Speaker 2: he would tell you that that only strengthens Huawei and
Speaker 2: in fact strengthens China's hand to sell this type of
Speaker 2: technology if it were to catch up with the United
Speaker 2: States to other countries. Do you believe that we're mortgaging
Speaker 2: our national security by selling this technology.
Speaker 3: Oh, I believe that there'd be a great injury to
Speaker 3: our national security if we sold this technology. We certainly
Speaker 3: realize that in twenty twenty two, when the Biden administration
Speaker 3: could in place these stringent export controls, we understood this
Speaker 3: would be problematic for those American ship producers exporting to China.
Speaker 3: But there's something more important at stake here, the national
Speaker 3: security of the United States, the balance of military power
Speaker 3: between China and the United States. And while certainly the
Speaker 3: Chinese have gone a long way towards innovating now around
Speaker 3: these export controls, we were never under any illusion they
Speaker 3: would stop progress technological progress in China, but we would
Speaker 3: delay progress, and that has happened. So I think President
Speaker 3: Biden's initial decision nearly three years ago now was correct,
Speaker 3: and it's very important the Trump administration hold the line.
Speaker 3: I think you'll hear that from many members of Congress
Speaker 3: in both political parties.
Speaker 2: By the way, yeah, you'll hear from them right here
Speaker 2: on this program. I'm sure. As we consider what some
Speaker 2: would describe as an economic cold war here, or at
Speaker 2: least a trade war with China, the prospects of pushing
Speaker 2: India closer to China has been on the table this
Speaker 2: week with now a fifty percent tariff that the US
Speaker 2: has put on India. Half of that was added as
Speaker 2: punishment for India buying Russian oil. Ambassador I talked about
Speaker 2: this last evening with Peter Navarro, the White House Senior
Speaker 2: Counselor for Trade and Manufacturing. He made a lot of
Speaker 2: news not only here but in Delhi today with his
Speaker 2: answer what he said about India's Prime Minige Modi and
Speaker 2: its culpability regarding Russia's war in Ukraine.
Speaker 1: Let's listen, everybody in America loses because of what India's doing.
Speaker 1: The consumers and businesses and everything lose, and workers lose
Speaker 1: because India's high tariffs costs as jobs and factories in
Speaker 1: income and higher wages. And then the taxpayers lose because
Speaker 1: we got a fun Mody's war.
Speaker 2: Mody's War was the headline on the front page of
Speaker 2: every major newspaper this morning in India, and it led
Speaker 2: all of their newscasts. When he said that last evening,
Speaker 2: it was considered an insults and framed to be inaccurate.
Speaker 2: What do you make of this rhetoric coming from the
Speaker 2: White House.
Speaker 3: I think it's unfortunate. I also think it just doesn't
Speaker 3: make a lot of sense. If you look at the
Speaker 3: history of the US India relationship, you know, we have
Speaker 3: this historic competition with China underway really for which of
Speaker 3: US is going to be the strongest country in the
Speaker 3: Indo Pacific and in the world in the future. India
Speaker 3: has been now for twenty five years, one of the
Speaker 3: key strategic partners of the United States. Every American president,
Speaker 3: starting with President Bill Clinton, Democrat and Republican, has believed,
Speaker 3: and this includes President Trump in his first term, that
Speaker 3: we've got to get along with India, We've got to
Speaker 3: strengthen our military partnership because that strengthens our ability to
Speaker 3: leverage China and to make sure that China is hemmed
Speaker 3: in in its territorial ambitions on the India China border,
Speaker 3: in the Himalayas, but also in places like the South
Speaker 3: and East China Sea. So I understand that the Trump
Speaker 3: administration believes in this policy of high terraffts. But when
Speaker 3: you exact these high terriffs on India, Japan, South Korea,
Speaker 3: the European Union, you're weakening our natural coalition of countries
Speaker 3: that want to be with us in terms of going
Speaker 3: up against the Chinese and limiting their power. But it's
Speaker 3: difficult to do when you've got fifty percent American terrorists
Speaker 3: on Indian products coming into the United States. Every country
Speaker 3: has domestic politics, every leader just like that. As a
Speaker 3: Trump today politics.
Speaker 2: It's already happening. We're reporting that in March Beijing began
Speaker 2: quiet outreach to India. President she wrote a letter to
Speaker 2: test the waters on improving ties. I have less than
Speaker 2: a minute, and I don't want to cut you off, ambassador,
Speaker 2: but where does this end with this letter?
Speaker 3: Well, you know there's going to be an historic meeting
Speaker 3: between President Hijin Ping and Prime Minister Modi on September
Speaker 3: third in Beijing. And this is this is a step backwards,
Speaker 3: a major step backwards for the United States, because we
Speaker 3: had since the end of the nineties, long time ago,
Speaker 3: we've established this true partnership with India, and now it's
Speaker 3: at risk because of this misguided terrorists pop tariff policy
Speaker 3: by the Trump administration.
Speaker 2: There you have it from Nicholas Burns, the former US
Speaker 2: ambassador to China and the Biden administration ambassador. Thank you
Speaker 2: for your insights.