WEBVTT - How Social Media Has Changed the PR Game 0:00:06.120 --> 0:00:10.799 Welcome to Strictly Business Varieties, weekly podcasts featuring conversations with 0:00:10.840 --> 0:00:14.960 industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. I'm 0:00:15.000 --> 0:00:19.319 Cynthia Littleton, business editor of Variety. Today. My guest in 0:00:19.320 --> 0:00:22.840 New York is Shaun Cassidy, president of marketing and public 0:00:22.880 --> 0:00:26.200 relations firm d k C. Cassidy has been in the 0:00:26.239 --> 0:00:30.760 business of representing celebrities, newsmakers, and corporations since the early 0:00:30.880 --> 0:00:35.720 nineteen nineties. In our wide ranging conversation, he offers insights 0:00:35.720 --> 0:00:38.960 into how social media has changed the media game for 0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:46.840 PR professionals and their clients as well as journalists. Shaun Cassidy, 0:00:47.159 --> 0:00:50.519 president of d k C, a public relations and marketing firm, 0:00:50.520 --> 0:00:53.680 thank you so much for doing this today. It's my pleasure. 0:00:53.720 --> 0:00:57.120 Thank you. So you know, obviously this is an incredibly 0:00:57.360 --> 0:01:00.720 fraught time in the world of any kind of media, 0:01:01.200 --> 0:01:05.240 free media, traditional news media, social media. D k C 0:01:05.680 --> 0:01:08.959 has been known for as a company that was was 0:01:09.080 --> 0:01:11.880 very much ahead of the curve in terms of working 0:01:11.880 --> 0:01:16.720 with clients and generating, you know, significant real headlines around 0:01:17.000 --> 0:01:19.440 newsy projects, and that I think is a credit to 0:01:19.480 --> 0:01:22.360 the kind of people that you have worked with. How 0:01:22.520 --> 0:01:27.080 has that process of working with clients who are already 0:01:27.080 --> 0:01:29.800 in the news and and you know, getting your message 0:01:29.840 --> 0:01:33.200 across in news coverage. How has that changed in a 0:01:33.240 --> 0:01:36.480 world where news travels around the world in a nanosecond 0:01:36.560 --> 0:01:39.640 and everybody in some form with their phone and their 0:01:39.680 --> 0:01:41.959 social media can be a reporter. How is that? How 0:01:42.040 --> 0:01:45.319 is your work in this area changed? Well, Tony, it's 0:01:45.400 --> 0:01:48.920 it's changed, but it hasn't. Um And I'll tell you 0:01:49.000 --> 0:01:51.760 how it hasn't. Is that the is the premium on news. 0:01:52.080 --> 0:01:55.640 I mean, if you're a public relations professional in today's era, 0:01:56.080 --> 0:01:58.680 you need to be thinking of yourself as a newsperson 0:01:58.720 --> 0:02:00.760 all the time. And then that made seem obvious to 0:02:00.800 --> 0:02:02.960 you as somebody in the news. But but there was 0:02:03.000 --> 0:02:09.360 always this continuum between marketing and and editorial. And I 0:02:09.400 --> 0:02:12.560 think for many years PR firms were very proficient at 0:02:12.680 --> 0:02:16.840 being at at marketing on behalf of their clients, but 0:02:16.880 --> 0:02:19.720 they weren't necessarily great at coming up with the news 0:02:19.800 --> 0:02:22.840 side of it and figure out a way to um, 0:02:22.880 --> 0:02:26.760 you make a story attractive to the press. And right now, 0:02:27.040 --> 0:02:32.480 I would argue that's more important for a variety of reasons. One, UM, 0:02:32.560 --> 0:02:35.960 the press matters no matter what anybody tells you about 0:02:35.960 --> 0:02:39.639 the influence of media and today's market and your readers, 0:02:39.639 --> 0:02:42.400 the readers of Variety are looking to you for direction. 0:02:42.760 --> 0:02:45.720 So so so what you say about a business you 0:02:45.800 --> 0:02:49.400 cover or individually you cover, matters greatly. I love hearing 0:02:49.400 --> 0:02:51.519 you say that I'm not just trying to be a 0:02:51.600 --> 0:02:55.360 nice guy. I mean so. However, at the same time, 0:02:55.560 --> 0:02:57.119 there are and this is where it's this is where 0:02:57.120 --> 0:02:59.560 it has changed, is that there are so many more 0:02:59.639 --> 0:03:03.360 channel by which to communicate and and certain sectors. You 0:03:03.440 --> 0:03:06.440 see it in beauty and fashion absolutely positively with celebrities 0:03:06.960 --> 0:03:11.960 there there there are channels now which which matter in 0:03:12.080 --> 0:03:15.440 some cases almost as much as the press. And I say, 0:03:15.480 --> 0:03:19.600 I still believe that that third party opinion by um by, 0:03:19.840 --> 0:03:23.799 by a reporter, by any media outlet is extremely influential. 0:03:24.280 --> 0:03:28.320 But brands, individuals can speak to their audiences directly right now. 0:03:28.520 --> 0:03:32.880 And again, there too, the ability to create newsworthy content 0:03:33.160 --> 0:03:36.760 matters because if it's newsworthy, it's relevant, if it's newsworthy, 0:03:36.760 --> 0:03:40.880 it's interesting, and ifs newsworthy, it gets shared. And so 0:03:41.160 --> 0:03:43.880 the the idea that that you can just sort of 0:03:43.880 --> 0:03:48.720 put content out that's really advertorial via social media, that 0:03:48.880 --> 0:03:52.760 I believe that's wrong. So I think there's still a 0:03:52.040 --> 0:03:55.840 a a tremendous need for editorial judgment on the public 0:03:55.880 --> 0:03:58.720 relation side. Uh, there's a tremendous need for it now. 0:03:59.080 --> 0:04:01.400 And I guess what evolve this? This just there are 0:04:01.440 --> 0:04:04.520 just so many different channels by which to communicate. Yeah, 0:04:04.560 --> 0:04:06.960 I mean, you know, publicists have been putting out press 0:04:07.000 --> 0:04:11.520 releases for decades. How is how is the trajectory of 0:04:11.600 --> 0:04:14.200 the news cycle different when you have a client who 0:04:14.280 --> 0:04:17.120 has you know, millions of followers on Instagram, and as 0:04:17.120 --> 0:04:19.919 we've seen now more and more, you have a celebrity 0:04:19.920 --> 0:04:24.120 that can break significant news about themselves on their own channel, 0:04:24.680 --> 0:04:26.480 and then, you know, do you sit there with the 0:04:26.520 --> 0:04:29.240 stopwatch and wait for the first reporter calls to come in? 0:04:29.279 --> 0:04:31.640 If somebody announces a big movie or a or a 0:04:31.720 --> 0:04:35.080 music tour or some kind of partnership or something, Um, 0:04:35.120 --> 0:04:38.640 it's it cuts both ways. So so one absolutely positively 0:04:38.680 --> 0:04:41.880 the cycle is faster now than ever you know news. 0:04:42.000 --> 0:04:45.440 And it's very interesting because news, as also social media 0:04:45.800 --> 0:04:48.479 can blow up and get white hot really fast, but 0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:51.240 also flame out very quickly. So the site that the 0:04:51.640 --> 0:04:55.960 duration of a story can depending on how it migrates 0:04:55.960 --> 0:04:58.760 from one from social to earn to what we called 0:04:58.800 --> 0:05:01.960 our media to traditionally you, Um, depending on how that 0:05:02.279 --> 0:05:04.919 that that goes. You know, a story can burn burn 0:05:04.960 --> 0:05:07.479 out very quickly or it can last, you know, last 0:05:07.600 --> 0:05:12.040 very long time. Here here's what has happened. UM. And 0:05:12.279 --> 0:05:14.600 I think ultimately this is uh, the advice I gy 0:05:14.640 --> 0:05:16.960 of the people in the public relations business and to 0:05:17.000 --> 0:05:20.960 anybody who works with public relations executives is following. Um, 0:05:21.480 --> 0:05:23.800 there's a belief now and it's and it's frankly, it's 0:05:23.839 --> 0:05:27.560 it's it's there's evidence to support this. When you have 0:05:27.960 --> 0:05:32.360 have clients who have social media followings that are many, many, 0:05:32.440 --> 0:05:36.280 many millions, UM, those individuals can communicate directly with their 0:05:36.360 --> 0:05:38.520 with their with their fans. Uh. You know they can 0:05:38.560 --> 0:05:42.600 do that, UM. And that that gives you a lot 0:05:42.680 --> 0:05:45.600 of flexibility in terms of what you can say and 0:05:45.800 --> 0:05:48.680 cannot say, because again you're going directly to your directly 0:05:48.720 --> 0:05:52.800 to your fan base. What I believe has happened, and 0:05:52.880 --> 0:05:54.400 I think this is a bad thing. I think it's 0:05:54.400 --> 0:05:57.000 a bad thing for frankly, for for um, for the 0:05:57.080 --> 0:06:00.680 client is that you have a leaf now that you 0:06:00.880 --> 0:06:03.240 don't have to deal with the press, you don't have 0:06:03.440 --> 0:06:06.719 to have relationships with the media anymore. And I don't 0:06:06.720 --> 0:06:08.800 believe that to be the case. I think that's wrong. 0:06:09.200 --> 0:06:11.720 UM and I can I can elaborate on that, but 0:06:11.839 --> 0:06:15.960 just suffice to say, you know, the the um the 0:06:16.320 --> 0:06:21.640 third party validation or lack thereof from the press is 0:06:21.800 --> 0:06:25.279 very significant because remember, you know, an article and variety 0:06:25.520 --> 0:06:28.480 can be shared across social media and you have a 0:06:28.560 --> 0:06:32.360 global footprint, you know, hit a global footprint very quickly, right, 0:06:32.880 --> 0:06:35.640 And but is there something in terms of like, especially 0:06:35.720 --> 0:06:38.479 for the sort of the fan base, is there there's 0:06:38.520 --> 0:06:41.480 a level of authenticity if they're reading it on somebody's 0:06:41.520 --> 0:06:44.760 Instagram account versus. Yeah, yeah, I think that's right. I 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:48.800 think that that um that not just a level of authenticity. UM. 0:06:49.240 --> 0:06:54.159 For many fans, they're there their primary interaction with the artist, 0:06:54.600 --> 0:06:59.040 uh is via the the via social media. UM. I 0:06:59.240 --> 0:07:03.240 think where where not dealing with the press becomes a 0:07:03.360 --> 0:07:08.039 problem is when the say a story starts to spin 0:07:08.080 --> 0:07:11.640 out negatively and then that gets the purpose through social 0:07:11.760 --> 0:07:14.760 channels at the fans say so. So the idea that 0:07:14.880 --> 0:07:17.440 you can you know absolutely positively, you know, you you 0:07:17.520 --> 0:07:19.640 have plenty of options right now is what it's dealing 0:07:19.720 --> 0:07:22.120 directly with the fan base. But I I guess the 0:07:22.160 --> 0:07:24.640 point I'm making is you just you just can't ignore 0:07:25.000 --> 0:07:27.720 the traditional media. It's a that's a mistake and not 0:07:27.920 --> 0:07:30.880 something I allow to go on here. Well, I think 0:07:30.920 --> 0:07:32.320 I want to ask you a little bit more about 0:07:32.600 --> 0:07:35.360 the traditional access to celebrities, because that is definitely I 0:07:35.560 --> 0:07:38.720 can personally I know is changing. I can feel it 0:07:38.800 --> 0:07:41.760 in my own career, not and not just celebrities, but executives. 0:07:41.760 --> 0:07:44.880 I mean, people just feel so much behind behind the wall. 0:07:45.160 --> 0:07:47.680 But I want to ask you first, particularly with social 0:07:48.320 --> 0:07:50.840 how much do you have people if you have a 0:07:50.920 --> 0:07:53.160 high profile client and you know things are going to 0:07:53.240 --> 0:07:54.880 be going on and you know they're going to be 0:07:54.960 --> 0:07:58.520 generating headlines, do you have like people dedicated to just 0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:02.400 watching how it's playing out on Twitter and Instagram and Facebook. 0:08:02.480 --> 0:08:07.240 Do you care on the on that granulural level. Yes, absolutely, 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:10.240 I you know it's UM. So the answer is the 0:08:10.320 --> 0:08:13.720 first question is yes, we have people here and that 0:08:13.920 --> 0:08:15.840 that's what they do there there. And it's not just 0:08:16.640 --> 0:08:20.120 especially a digital team. Anybody who's working on an account 0:08:20.760 --> 0:08:23.680 UM has to be paying attention to how that client 0:08:23.840 --> 0:08:27.880 is being covered in social media because it's it's on 0:08:28.040 --> 0:08:30.840 one hand, it can be social media very tricky business. 0:08:30.880 --> 0:08:33.040 On the other hand, it gives you a heads up 0:08:33.120 --> 0:08:37.920 of stuff that's bubbling up early on UM and so 0:08:38.440 --> 0:08:41.120 so so. So the answer your question, yes, we do 0:08:41.520 --> 0:08:45.079 UM in terms of in terms of UM how we 0:08:45.280 --> 0:08:48.559 handle it. It's it's tricky because you know, there's a 0:08:48.679 --> 0:08:51.400 there's a bit of a delta you cross. UM. You know, 0:08:51.800 --> 0:08:55.360 you can see something bubbling up in social media and 0:08:55.679 --> 0:08:59.480 typically will watch it UM because if it's something that's 0:08:59.480 --> 0:09:02.679 completely ridiculous, uh, you know, will be prepared for how 0:09:02.720 --> 0:09:05.839 to deal with it. But sometimes it just fizzles out 0:09:05.880 --> 0:09:07.920 if it looks like it's taking off potentially, and this 0:09:07.960 --> 0:09:09.839 is where becomes it becomes an issue, is where it 0:09:09.920 --> 0:09:13.160 makes the jump over to the traditional media side. So 0:09:13.280 --> 0:09:16.400 say your publication, for example, pick something up that's that's 0:09:16.440 --> 0:09:19.360 in social media, then now it's real. UM. So you 0:09:19.480 --> 0:09:21.559 want to make sure you're prepared for that. And the 0:09:21.600 --> 0:09:23.560 only way to be prepared for it is to constantly 0:09:23.600 --> 0:09:26.360 be watching right and and looking you know, deep in 0:09:26.520 --> 0:09:28.720 the deep in the comments. Because it's kind of shocking 0:09:28.800 --> 0:09:30.840 to me how much, as you said, like like things 0:09:30.960 --> 0:09:34.920 that start that sound ridiculous or or even now, there's 0:09:35.040 --> 0:09:37.560 so much back and forth with the this person said 0:09:37.600 --> 0:09:39.880 this on Twitter, and this person responded and and all 0:09:39.960 --> 0:09:43.079 of that, and and sometimes it's just it becomes so 0:09:43.200 --> 0:09:46.360 much noise, and your news judgment can be completely skewed. 0:09:46.720 --> 0:09:49.640 But other times that you know right or wrong, it 0:09:49.800 --> 0:09:53.079 does steamroll. And I would imagine that that is a 0:09:53.280 --> 0:09:55.400 that's a there's a vigilance there that you didn't have 0:09:55.480 --> 0:09:58.200 to deal with ten years ago. Absolutely, But it also 0:09:58.240 --> 0:10:01.400 comes back to your earlier question about news um. You know, 0:10:01.559 --> 0:10:05.840 the role of the public relations executive as somebody who 0:10:06.080 --> 0:10:10.280 understands news cycles, and when you have to think a 0:10:10.320 --> 0:10:12.680 little bit like an editor when you're watching something something 0:10:12.760 --> 0:10:14.600 bubble up. It's sort of like you know, a city 0:10:14.720 --> 0:10:18.679 editor at a at a local newspaper. You know, they'll 0:10:19.120 --> 0:10:21.240 they'll sit and they'll listen to the police and fire 0:10:21.280 --> 0:10:25.200 department scanners and they'll have a pretty good sense of, Okay, 0:10:25.480 --> 0:10:28.040 that looks like that's becoming something. Maybe we want to 0:10:28.080 --> 0:10:30.240 start somebody out to cover or you know what, it 0:10:30.280 --> 0:10:32.040 looks like they're gonna put it out pretty quickly. It's 0:10:32.080 --> 0:10:34.760 like that's it's the same thing. It's the same judgment 0:10:34.800 --> 0:10:37.280 you're using in social media. Okay, that looks like something 0:10:37.320 --> 0:10:39.079 that could actually blow up, and we have to be 0:10:39.200 --> 0:10:41.079 ready to deal with this, and you know what, and 0:10:41.160 --> 0:10:43.160 we don't want to do something that makes it bigger, 0:10:43.480 --> 0:10:45.640 so we have to watch it. But at the same time, 0:10:45.880 --> 0:10:48.240 you know, sometimes it's just you know what it's it's 0:10:48.559 --> 0:10:51.480 it's so ridiculous that you just sort of watch it, 0:10:51.600 --> 0:10:53.439 let it. You know, you'll see if it flames out 0:10:53.440 --> 0:10:55.480 on its own. So it's so that to to your 0:10:55.559 --> 0:10:59.599 to your point, it is about constant vigilance and and 0:10:59.880 --> 0:11:02.079 X sizing news judgment as it relates to how to 0:11:02.160 --> 0:11:04.240 deal with you know, what's going on in social media. 0:11:04.640 --> 0:11:07.840 Do you find do you for your for individual clients? Um? 0:11:08.080 --> 0:11:10.760 Do you find that you have to coach people? Are 0:11:10.880 --> 0:11:13.520 part of the job of representing them in the pr sense, 0:11:13.840 --> 0:11:16.920 is helping a person have a have a strong voice 0:11:17.000 --> 0:11:21.920 in social media? Yes? Um, But I think individuals and 0:11:22.080 --> 0:11:24.240 brand i'd say the same thing. Um, it just has 0:11:24.280 --> 0:11:28.400 to be authentic. Um. And I think the the the 0:11:28.559 --> 0:11:31.760 easy part in the hard part is that is that 0:11:32.240 --> 0:11:36.040 you know, if you're working with it with an individual 0:11:36.440 --> 0:11:38.520 a very similar overment with the company, you have to 0:11:38.679 --> 0:11:41.319 stay what does that person believe? UM, you know what 0:11:41.480 --> 0:11:44.360 what what is that person's voice? What is that brand's voice? 0:11:44.400 --> 0:11:46.000 You know, what is it that's that's what is it 0:11:46.120 --> 0:11:49.520 that makes that airline special? You know? And if you can, 0:11:49.600 --> 0:11:52.880 if you can, if you can decipher that reason so 0:11:52.960 --> 0:11:56.079 you can focus on that, then what's said on social 0:11:56.160 --> 0:11:59.679 media becomes largely derivative of that voice. UM. Where I think, 0:11:59.720 --> 0:12:01.920 so where you get into trouble and social media is 0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:04.240 you have no voice and you start going all over 0:12:04.320 --> 0:12:08.079 the place. And and what's interesting about um, the you 0:12:08.120 --> 0:12:11.840 know with artists with brands, you know they're they're shocking. Similar, 0:12:12.440 --> 0:12:16.840 overexposure is a bad thing. And you become overexposed when 0:12:16.880 --> 0:12:18.920 you're out there all the time, and and and and 0:12:19.320 --> 0:12:21.000 you're all over the place in terms of what it 0:12:21.120 --> 0:12:24.280 is you stand for. UM, it just becomes noise at 0:12:24.320 --> 0:12:27.360 that point. And what you have and what you know, 0:12:27.400 --> 0:12:30.120 whether the reality of the environment or in today, is 0:12:30.200 --> 0:12:35.120 that social media can be the express train to overexposure. 0:12:35.320 --> 0:12:39.720 So understanding that voice and making sure it's authentic is critical, 0:12:40.000 --> 0:12:44.560 UM to be successful and successful um as all social media. 0:12:44.840 --> 0:12:47.319 I want to return to that because I think to 0:12:47.440 --> 0:12:52.600 your point, about um, you know, particularly celebrities individual stars 0:12:52.880 --> 0:12:56.520 that are UM, I certainly sense it that there's a 0:12:56.600 --> 0:13:00.240 wariness about press and and and certainly for the all 0:13:00.280 --> 0:13:03.280 the dynamics we've just been discussing. One quote can be 0:13:03.600 --> 0:13:06.360 you know, potentially even taken out of context, can travel 0:13:06.440 --> 0:13:08.839 around the world. Oh my god, can you believe he 0:13:09.000 --> 0:13:12.400 or she said that? And UM, is there do you 0:13:12.679 --> 0:13:15.640 sense is that do you have to convince clients sometimes 0:13:15.679 --> 0:13:17.160 to do like if you if you're going to do 0:13:17.520 --> 0:13:20.640 a major story that requires a reporter tagging along with 0:13:20.720 --> 0:13:22.599 a person for a day or two, like, is that 0:13:22.720 --> 0:13:25.439 a harder sell to some people nowadays? I think I 0:13:25.480 --> 0:13:29.960 think there's definitely a greater trepidation now than there was before. 0:13:30.480 --> 0:13:33.319 And um, and I sort of sort of break that 0:13:33.440 --> 0:13:37.000 question in two parts. One, I mean, the notion of celebrities, 0:13:38.480 --> 0:13:43.480 artists being protected. I don't think that's new. I mean 0:13:43.520 --> 0:13:44.880 that goes all the way back to you know that, 0:13:45.280 --> 0:13:48.479 you know, when when studios used to create fake relationships 0:13:48.520 --> 0:13:50.520 between couples. You know it's like that, Like I mean 0:13:50.559 --> 0:13:54.000 that that the the paper over the problem that happened 0:13:54.000 --> 0:13:56.560 that weekend in Mexico or whatever. Right, Yeah, I mean 0:13:56.600 --> 0:14:01.160 that the idea that um, that image is uh, celebrity 0:14:01.160 --> 0:14:04.040 images are very carefully manicured. UM. I don't think that's 0:14:04.040 --> 0:14:06.679 super new, and I think there's always been a level 0:14:06.760 --> 0:14:09.880 of protection of the artist that has that has existed 0:14:10.040 --> 0:14:13.760 for for many, many, many years. UM. I think what 0:14:14.040 --> 0:14:19.880 what you're seeing in today's environment is where it's changed, 0:14:20.360 --> 0:14:27.800 is that you have a UM, there's a bit of 0:14:27.840 --> 0:14:29.560 a clickbait code, not a bit of it, there's a 0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:32.520 clickbait culture and so so one of the things you 0:14:32.640 --> 0:14:34.840 have to be careful with is, you know, if you 0:14:35.000 --> 0:14:40.400 have a have a five thousand words story about you know, 0:14:40.760 --> 0:14:46.200 somebody's fifty years the entertainment industry and there's one little 0:14:46.320 --> 0:14:51.720 personal revelation in there, UM, that can potentially overshadow the 0:14:52.120 --> 0:14:55.760 entire the entire focus of the piece, which is somebody 0:14:55.760 --> 0:14:59.920 who changed the industry. You know, you have to hope 0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:02.680 that an editor is not going to pull that out 0:15:02.840 --> 0:15:05.240 and make that the focus of the of the social 0:15:05.320 --> 0:15:09.120 media push. But in an environment that is very clickbait driven, 0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:13.040 that's always a concern, um, you know, and that that's that, 0:15:13.160 --> 0:15:16.360 you know, the salacious nous tabloid ism. I mean that 0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:18.640 that is that I've been doing this almost thirty years now. 0:15:18.840 --> 0:15:22.600 That's always existed. But that notion that you want to 0:15:22.640 --> 0:15:26.000 get as many clicks as possible, I think there's just 0:15:26.120 --> 0:15:30.120 an automatic temptation to try to pull out that which 0:15:30.240 --> 0:15:34.760 is going to uh to to create controversy or or 0:15:35.120 --> 0:15:38.000 or a salacious interest on what have you. So, so yes, 0:15:38.200 --> 0:15:40.000 I think you have to be nervous about it. But 0:15:40.120 --> 0:15:43.680 I'm a big believer um that it's very important, certainly 0:15:43.800 --> 0:15:49.080 for public relations executives to have relationships with the media 0:15:49.200 --> 0:15:52.000 with whom they work. I think it's really important, and 0:15:52.120 --> 0:15:55.280 by extension, I think there has to be a bridge 0:15:55.440 --> 0:15:57.560 with with the client there. I think that I think 0:15:57.600 --> 0:16:01.280 that just do do nothing and communicate entirely social media. 0:16:02.000 --> 0:16:04.200 I don't know. I'm not a believer in that. I 0:16:04.320 --> 0:16:09.440 think that that that some degree of access is a 0:16:09.800 --> 0:16:12.840 worthwhile long term investment as long as it's strategic. There 0:16:12.960 --> 0:16:15.520 is definitely a you know, there's definitely going to come 0:16:15.520 --> 0:16:18.840 a time in the most glittering career where you're gonna 0:16:18.920 --> 0:16:21.479 want to have where you're gonna want to have those relationships, 0:16:21.560 --> 0:16:24.280 no doubt. How do you deal with I I often 0:16:24.360 --> 0:16:27.760 think about you know, for me, in the course of 0:16:27.800 --> 0:16:30.440 my reporting career. It has definitely become it was. It's 0:16:30.480 --> 0:16:32.360 never a nine to five business, but it has definitely 0:16:32.400 --> 0:16:36.240 become a seven business, Thank you Internet. But how do 0:16:36.360 --> 0:16:38.560 you all deal It's it's also much more of a 0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:42.160 global business. And how do you I would imagine when 0:16:42.200 --> 0:16:44.480 you have a big client in some big news is breaking, 0:16:44.520 --> 0:16:48.440 your people probably get five hundred calls from reporters you know, 0:16:48.880 --> 0:16:51.160 around the world. Have you guys dealt with just the 0:16:51.280 --> 0:16:55.560 sheer expansion of the of the number of platforms and 0:16:55.600 --> 0:17:00.280 outlets that call themselved A journalists? Sure? Well, that that's where, um, 0:17:01.400 --> 0:17:05.000 where social media is your friend and your enemy? Um, 0:17:05.480 --> 0:17:10.359 I mean you know, obviously because of social media and 0:17:10.480 --> 0:17:13.360 because of the proliferation of news and you have news 0:17:13.440 --> 0:17:17.320 platforms globally, Um, you know you will literally get five 0:17:17.359 --> 0:17:20.240 hunter phone calls in a day. Um. Where social media 0:17:20.280 --> 0:17:22.800 is your friend is you have a means by which 0:17:22.920 --> 0:17:28.360 to put out authentic communication pretty quickly. Now, uh does 0:17:28.440 --> 0:17:31.440 that mean we we don't eventually get back to many 0:17:31.560 --> 0:17:34.440 of the five Yes, but you but look, you have 0:17:34.480 --> 0:17:36.480 to live in reality here. You have to very often 0:17:36.520 --> 0:17:37.920 if something is breaking, you do have to get it 0:17:37.960 --> 0:17:40.159 out quickly and that is where social media can be 0:17:40.280 --> 0:17:42.040 very effective. You know, you can get it out to 0:17:42.080 --> 0:17:43.920 it and we we you know, we we we we've 0:17:43.960 --> 0:17:46.240 certainly had this situation with stories where you guys have 0:17:46.359 --> 0:17:50.479 been have been aggressively looking for information. You will usually 0:17:50.760 --> 0:17:54.800 social first and then we will look to put together 0:17:55.160 --> 0:17:57.240 a depending on what it is. You know, the depends 0:17:57.680 --> 0:17:59.680 you know, for example, like we do a lot of 0:17:59.720 --> 0:18:04.400 crime management here, um, you know, and and when when 0:18:04.480 --> 0:18:08.399 you're representing clients that are involved in allegation, are involved 0:18:08.400 --> 0:18:12.440 any anything, anything that involves attorneys, the PR firm is 0:18:12.640 --> 0:18:16.639 typically is at the table, but the ultimate decision maker 0:18:16.800 --> 0:18:20.040 is going to be be an attorney. Uh And so 0:18:20.440 --> 0:18:23.240 sometimes you can't say as much as you'd like to 0:18:23.440 --> 0:18:26.240 write away so because you know, because that could ultimately 0:18:26.320 --> 0:18:29.919 have an impact on a case. Uh So there will 0:18:29.960 --> 0:18:33.360 be a little bit of a of a playbook will 0:18:33.400 --> 0:18:36.560 follow and sometimes all you can do is put something 0:18:36.640 --> 0:18:38.960 out via social media and that eventually, you know, as 0:18:39.040 --> 0:18:41.280 things progress, you can you know, you can be a 0:18:41.320 --> 0:18:43.160 little more open in terms of what you can say later. 0:18:43.760 --> 0:18:47.600 But um, as a general rule, when we have been 0:18:47.640 --> 0:18:49.720 in that so we're in that situation quite frequently where 0:18:49.720 --> 0:18:52.320 you're getting five front a phone calls, um, you know 0:18:52.400 --> 0:18:55.960 at two in the morning. Um. They you generally want 0:18:56.000 --> 0:18:58.440 to get something out pretty quickly, just just to keep 0:18:58.520 --> 0:19:01.639 the cycle at bay and then uh, and then you 0:19:01.680 --> 0:19:04.000 can figure out what the next step is once once 0:19:04.040 --> 0:19:06.159 you get all the information you need because sometimes sometimes 0:19:06.680 --> 0:19:09.560 how about how diligent you are in terms of monitoring 0:19:09.600 --> 0:19:13.320 social media, stuff can happen very quickly and you have 0:19:13.440 --> 0:19:15.159 to you have to react for your fast. And the 0:19:15.200 --> 0:19:18.160 worst thing is is when something from an official channel 0:19:18.280 --> 0:19:20.640 or official pr turns out to be not quite right, 0:19:20.920 --> 0:19:24.840 that that really makes reporters cranky, cranky, and and it 0:19:24.960 --> 0:19:28.439 goes back to to that credibility point you're making earlier 0:19:28.440 --> 0:19:31.560 about being authentic, is that it's that if you're disingenuous 0:19:31.720 --> 0:19:34.439 in terms of what you say or in an effort 0:19:34.480 --> 0:19:37.080 frankly you know to do the right thing and just 0:19:37.240 --> 0:19:39.280 and just just answer a question quickly, and you don't 0:19:39.280 --> 0:19:42.200 have all the facts it can be And that's where 0:19:42.720 --> 0:19:44.679 you have to very level head in this business. Uh. 0:19:44.960 --> 0:19:49.119 You know, I this is not an industry for people 0:19:49.160 --> 0:19:52.560 who panic, because you know, you have to be able 0:19:52.560 --> 0:19:54.879 to take a deep breath and and think about the 0:19:55.000 --> 0:19:58.960 consequences of everything you do and everything you say. You know, 0:19:59.119 --> 0:20:01.639 not just one minut it from now, but twenty four 0:20:01.720 --> 0:20:03.800 hours from now, a year from now. What are some 0:20:03.880 --> 0:20:07.240 of the biggest misconceptions about how the news media works 0:20:07.359 --> 0:20:11.080 that you find when you're working with clients. I taste 0:20:11.080 --> 0:20:17.159 two things. One that uh that relationships don't matter. Um. 0:20:17.359 --> 0:20:21.960 I think it's extremely important for anybody who deals with 0:20:22.000 --> 0:20:26.800 the media to have a relationship with relationships with the 0:20:26.960 --> 0:20:29.800 individuals who are who who are working in the media. UM. 0:20:29.960 --> 0:20:33.080 I think too to you know, I deal with this 0:20:33.240 --> 0:20:36.320 a lot with major corporations that think they can exist 0:20:36.600 --> 0:20:40.880 entirely by feeding statements two reporters. Um. I don't think 0:20:40.920 --> 0:20:44.680 that's a real relationship. UM. I don't think it's effective. 0:20:45.040 --> 0:20:48.320 I just I don't believe in it. The second thing is, look, 0:20:49.040 --> 0:20:51.560 your role is to get at the truth. UM. You 0:20:51.600 --> 0:20:53.919 know a a if we're doing our jobs, if you're 0:20:53.920 --> 0:20:55.720 doing a job at a reporter or producer, Look, you 0:20:55.800 --> 0:20:59.040 want to get at the truth. Um. And that doesn't 0:20:59.200 --> 0:21:04.280 mean that the reporter, the producer, whomever is out to 0:21:04.640 --> 0:21:09.560 get the client. And you know, for so many years, 0:21:09.880 --> 0:21:12.480 one of the things I found, particularly major corporations is 0:21:12.600 --> 0:21:15.159 this goes back before the year of social media, is 0:21:15.240 --> 0:21:19.399 that the press was something that wasn't easily controlled. So 0:21:19.520 --> 0:21:21.840 if you had these companies, if they had a really 0:21:22.000 --> 0:21:25.760 big budget and really and a really big footprint um 0:21:26.040 --> 0:21:29.280 through advertising, they could just communicate with their customers that 0:21:29.359 --> 0:21:33.920 way and and just really react to the press when 0:21:33.960 --> 0:21:36.000 they got a call and maybe issue a statement. Is 0:21:36.119 --> 0:21:38.440 that And then what happened is then all of a 0:21:38.520 --> 0:21:43.600 sudden you'd have a reporter digging into something and asking 0:21:43.680 --> 0:21:49.240 tough questions, and and these companies were so uncomfortable that 0:21:50.160 --> 0:21:53.959 often little issues seemed like really big issues because they 0:21:54.000 --> 0:21:56.240 were so elusive when it came to dealing with the press. 0:21:56.640 --> 0:21:58.520 So I'm a believer that you have to be very 0:21:58.640 --> 0:22:01.680 proactive and you have to maintain relationships. You know, you know, 0:22:02.040 --> 0:22:03.719 you know, you should should have a cup of coffee 0:22:03.760 --> 0:22:05.879 with that reporter it was covering you. You just should 0:22:05.920 --> 0:22:09.440 you have that relationship. And so I think that the 0:22:09.840 --> 0:22:13.159 answer the question very sucinctly. One of the misperceptions is 0:22:13.280 --> 0:22:16.119 that is that that the press is the enemy and 0:22:16.200 --> 0:22:19.040 you can't you can't, you shouldn't deal with them because 0:22:19.119 --> 0:22:21.359 they are out to get you. I don't believe in that. 0:22:21.520 --> 0:22:23.280