1
00:00:02,320 --> 00:00:05,680
Speaker 1: East New York is a notoriously tough Brooklyn neighborhood, and in

2
00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:08,840
Speaker 1: the seventies, eighties, and nineties it had an equally corrupt

3
00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:13,080
Speaker 1: local precinct, the seventy five or seventy fifth Precinct, home

4
00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:17,080
Speaker 1: to many of the wrongful convictions of notorious and YPD

5
00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:21,919
Speaker 1: detectives Luis Garcela and Stephen Camill. On March twenty eighth,

6
00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:24,919
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety eight, Nelson Cruz was out in the neighborhood

7
00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:28,760
Speaker 1: with some friends celebrating his seventeenth birthday over Chinese food

8
00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:32,880
Speaker 1: when they heard gunshots close by, so close, in fact,

9
00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:36,239
Speaker 1: that they saw the police swoop in immediately to get

10
00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:40,280
Speaker 1: the situation under control. A police officer had seen the

11
00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:44,120
Speaker 1: actual muscle flash of the gun in Eduardo Rodriguez's hand.

12
00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:48,000
Speaker 1: Trevor Vieira, a man in his mid twenties known for stickups,

13
00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:51,320
Speaker 1: was lying dead in the street. Rodriguez was brought in

14
00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:55,040
Speaker 1: for questioning, where Scarcela and Camille turned what should have

15
00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:59,880
Speaker 1: been an open and shutcase into another horrific wrongful conviction

16
00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:03,440
Speaker 1: with the false testimony of a man who didn't even

17
00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:07,000
Speaker 1: know police were unseen to arrest Rodriguez and in spite

18
00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:10,759
Speaker 1: of the testimony of that uniform police officer stating that

19
00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:15,319
Speaker 1: Nelson Cruz was definitely not the shooter, Nelson was convicted

20
00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:18,400
Speaker 1: and sentenced to twenty five years to life, and if

21
00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:22,600
Speaker 1: matters couldn't get any worse, despite a mountain of new

22
00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:27,280
Speaker 1: exculpatory evidence, the judge who oversaw his most recent appeal

23
00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:31,880
Speaker 1: suffers now from early onset Alzheimer's, which has impaired her

24
00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:36,200
Speaker 1: ability to follow the case and set Nelson free. This

25
00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:54,640
Speaker 1: is Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flopp. Hello.

26
00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:55,440
Speaker 2: This is a.

27
00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:59,160
Speaker 1: Prepaid collect call from an inmate at New York State

28
00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:01,880
Speaker 1: Department of Care and Community Supervision.

29
00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:05,960
Speaker 3: This call is subject to recording and monitoring. To accept charges,

30
00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:09,000
Speaker 3: Press one to refuse charges, Press two.

31
00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:13,680
Speaker 1: Thank you producing, So curis you may start the conversation. Now,

32
00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:17,600
Speaker 1: welcome back to Wrongful Conviction with Jason flamm That's me.

33
00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:22,600
Speaker 1: I'm your host. Today. We have a deeply, deeply troubling

34
00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:25,400
Speaker 1: situation to talk to you about. Today. We're on the

35
00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:28,720
Speaker 1: phone with Nelson Cruz, an innocent man who's been in

36
00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:31,760
Speaker 1: prison for a twenty two years now in New York State,

37
00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:35,200
Speaker 1: and I'm going to introduce now to you an attorney.

38
00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:37,400
Speaker 1: You have a tremendous amount of respect for who I'm

39
00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:39,560
Speaker 1: proud to work with on a day to day basis

40
00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:42,960
Speaker 1: on various cases, including this one. Justin bonus, Welcome to

41
00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:43,760
Speaker 1: wrongful Conviction.

42
00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:45,360
Speaker 3: Good morning, Jason, how are you?

43
00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:47,680
Speaker 1: I'm all right. Thanks, I'm glad to be here with you,

44
00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:49,760
Speaker 1: and most of all, I'm glad to be here with

45
00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:53,160
Speaker 1: the man of the hour, Nelson Cruz. Nelson, I'm sorry

46
00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:55,360
Speaker 1: you have to be here under these circumstances, but I'm

47
00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:57,320
Speaker 1: really glad you're here to tell your story. So welcome

48
00:02:57,320 --> 00:03:01,840
Speaker 1: to wrongful Conviction. I'm on to which prison are you in? Now?

49
00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:04,600
Speaker 4: What Burn Correction? The facility up state New York?

50
00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:06,960
Speaker 1: Can you take us back to that time?

51
00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:09,440
Speaker 4: I was in tenth grade at the time. It was

52
00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:12,360
Speaker 4: a nice night in March twenty eighth, nineteen ninety eight,

53
00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:15,280
Speaker 4: the day for my birthday. Me and like three of

54
00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:17,640
Speaker 4: my friends, we walked around the corner to the Chinese

55
00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:21,480
Speaker 4: restaurant to purchase some food, and me and my friends was,

56
00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:24,360
Speaker 4: you know, laughing and joking like we usually do. We

57
00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:28,200
Speaker 4: stepped outside and shot the fire down the block on

58
00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:30,720
Speaker 4: braffing and picking and when I looked I've seen a

59
00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:33,919
Speaker 4: police officer car that pulled up immediately and was getting

60
00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:36,400
Speaker 4: the area under control, and I've seen that they had

61
00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:39,840
Speaker 4: a Spanish guy on the floor and they was arresting

62
00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:44,600
Speaker 4: the guy. However, about four in the morning, Homicide contacted

63
00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:47,080
Speaker 4: my mom. Told my mother they wanted to interview me

64
00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:49,600
Speaker 4: for the murder, and I was like, how can this be.

65
00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:51,680
Speaker 4: I don't have nothing to do with the situation. So

66
00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:53,640
Speaker 4: my big Weather step, We're going to get an attorney.

67
00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:55,240
Speaker 4: We're going to go down to the priests, and don't

68
00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:57,720
Speaker 4: go down there by yourself, because you know the seventy

69
00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:02,440
Speaker 4: fifth priestst is dirty. I said, fine, And on April third,

70
00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:05,400
Speaker 4: about a turny went to the priests with attorney and

71
00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:08,680
Speaker 4: went to a lineup and I've never seen the scrief again.

72
00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:11,400
Speaker 1: Justin I want to turn to you because this case

73
00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:15,160
Speaker 1: is the definition of an open and shut case. It

74
00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:18,719
Speaker 1: should have never even been anywhere near Nelson or his

75
00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:22,680
Speaker 1: family because they knew from day one exactly who did it.

76
00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:24,839
Speaker 1: Can you explain what I'm talking about here?

77
00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:28,360
Speaker 3: This murder happens March twenty eighth, nineteen ninety eight, at

78
00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:32,240
Speaker 3: eleven fifteen at the corner of Bradford and Picking. Two

79
00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:36,520
Speaker 3: cops in a patrol car. Officer William Paietti actually watches

80
00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:39,440
Speaker 3: the man with the ponytail, who we later find out

81
00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:42,679
Speaker 3: is at Wardo Rodriguez firing the gun, sees the muzzle

82
00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:46,240
Speaker 3: flare towards Bradford and Picking, which is where the deceased

83
00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:50,520
Speaker 3: Trevor Vieira was found. Pietti actually arrests at Wardo, Rodriguez

84
00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:54,320
Speaker 3: tells him to drop the gun, and Officer Palmery chases

85
00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:57,240
Speaker 3: a black man. I guess who runs away. These are

86
00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:01,440
Speaker 3: what the two cops say at one one forty five

87
00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:03,800
Speaker 3: in the morning when they're interviewed by none other than

88
00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:08,520
Speaker 3: Detective Lewis Scarcela and Detective Steven Kimmel. And just to

89
00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:11,880
Speaker 3: tell you who those men are, I mean, they're probably

90
00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:14,120
Speaker 3: some of the most storied police officers in the country

91
00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:17,320
Speaker 3: when it comes to wrongful convictions in relation to homicides.

92
00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:20,640
Speaker 3: And Lewis Scarcella with Camill shows up at the scene

93
00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:23,719
Speaker 3: at eleven fifty five. They are totally involved with this case.

94
00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:28,400
Speaker 3: Scarcella and Camille are at the precinct with Rodriguez. Rodriguez

95
00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:31,599
Speaker 3: at around three o'clock in the morning or so actually

96
00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:35,760
Speaker 3: makes a statement. Another witness, William Johnson, who later testifies

97
00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:38,359
Speaker 3: that Nelson wasn't at the scene, He was an eyewitness

98
00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:41,120
Speaker 3: arrested at the scene. He was interviewed, does not indicate

99
00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:44,120
Speaker 3: anything about Nelson Cruz. So the first person to actually

100
00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:47,000
Speaker 3: name Cruise is at Wardo Rodriguez. And then there was

101
00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:49,560
Speaker 3: a third witness. His name is Andre Bellinger, who was

102
00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:51,960
Speaker 3: interviewed at something around three forty five in the morning,

103
00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:56,000
Speaker 3: and he says Nelson as well. Nelson turns himself in

104
00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:59,200
Speaker 3: on April third. He's barely seventeen years old. Mark Brooks

105
00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:02,520
Speaker 3: runs the lineup. He is allegedly the lead investigator out

106
00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:05,320
Speaker 3: of the seventy fifth because Stephen Camill is the lead

107
00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:08,720
Speaker 3: investigator for Brooklyn North. And how you understand the politics

108
00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:12,279
Speaker 3: between Brooklyn North and the local precincts is one detective

109
00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:15,320
Speaker 3: from Brooklyn North would work with a precinct detective. So

110
00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:19,440
Speaker 3: Stephen Camill was the lead partner detective with Mark Brooks

111
00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:22,000
Speaker 3: who was the detective from the seventy fifth precinct, and

112
00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:26,400
Speaker 3: Lewis Scarcella was Stephen Camill's partner from Brooklyn North. You know,

113
00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:29,360
Speaker 3: so what we have happened is a lineup that's conducted,

114
00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:33,080
Speaker 3: and Andre Bellinger is the only witness that comes in to

115
00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:33,880
Speaker 3: view the lineup.

116
00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:37,240
Speaker 1: So little does Nelson know he's going right into the

117
00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:40,320
Speaker 1: eye of the storm. Here, you were living through this

118
00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:43,360
Speaker 1: a tenth greater. I mean, can you take us back

119
00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:45,640
Speaker 1: to what you were thinking and feeling at that time,

120
00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:48,960
Speaker 1: starting on the third when you turn yourself in, Yes, Jason.

121
00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:51,600
Speaker 4: So I'm go into the precinct and I'm sitting down

122
00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:54,240
Speaker 4: just waiting for the detective to go look for us.

123
00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:57,840
Speaker 4: On Philistlana Scarcella, he's on his desk with a seat

124
00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:01,120
Speaker 4: picked up, smoking a cigar. I never forget this. He's

125
00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:03,599
Speaker 4: smoking a cigar and he asks me, Uh, you're not

126
00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:06,640
Speaker 4: scared to be here. I said, no, I wouldn't be here,

127
00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:09,320
Speaker 4: but I committed this murder. He should have head, he said,

128
00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:12,200
Speaker 4: all right. After they got the filler, we went into

129
00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:15,240
Speaker 4: the lineup. I got picked out, of course by Andre Billinger,

130
00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:18,600
Speaker 4: and my attorney's explained to me, listen, don't say nothing

131
00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:20,320
Speaker 4: to the detective. The only thing that you supposed to

132
00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:22,240
Speaker 4: stay to them is your name and address. So they

133
00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:23,920
Speaker 4: kept me in the bullpen for a little while for

134
00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:26,560
Speaker 4: a couple of hours, and they took me out the

135
00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:29,000
Speaker 4: bullpen and then bring me right back into the lineup

136
00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:31,360
Speaker 4: rung and they cuffed me into like the little rails

137
00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:34,560
Speaker 4: inside the lineup rum and start. Seller brings the paper

138
00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:37,440
Speaker 4: into the room and he's telling me, listen, we already

139
00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:40,119
Speaker 4: know what happened. Just sign it and you will be leaving.

140
00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:43,400
Speaker 4: So I tell Scott Seller that I'm not signing anything.

141
00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:46,240
Speaker 4: He gets a little frustrated, So you got your meal,

142
00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:48,160
Speaker 4: trying to play the gut cop. He's telling me, listen,

143
00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:50,400
Speaker 4: just sign it and you'll be walking out. We already

144
00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:52,640
Speaker 4: know what happened. So I tell him again, I'm not

145
00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:56,240
Speaker 4: signing anything. Scott's Feller get a little frustrated, crumble the

146
00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:58,920
Speaker 4: paper and slaps me in the face with this again.

147
00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:01,440
Speaker 4: He's telling me, you know, hostile, just signed the paper,

148
00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:03,200
Speaker 4: you'd be and I'm like, I'm not signing anything. They

149
00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:04,640
Speaker 4: left me in a room for like a half hour.

150
00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:06,920
Speaker 4: They brings me back into the book pen, and about

151
00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:09,000
Speaker 4: maybe like an hour after that, they put me into

152
00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:11,880
Speaker 4: a van. They driving me to us Central Bookman. And

153
00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:14,640
Speaker 4: later on when I get my voluntary disclosure for him,

154
00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:17,160
Speaker 4: I see that they put a DD five report in

155
00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:20,880
Speaker 4: a statement that I made a spontaneous statement. The statement

156
00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:23,080
Speaker 4: s face sensed the fact that I got shot in

157
00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:25,720
Speaker 4: my leg and I shot the guy and ran and

158
00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:27,800
Speaker 4: I'm looking at I'm telling my attorney. I never said

159
00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:30,440
Speaker 4: any of this to these detectives. Number never said any

160
00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:30,600
Speaker 4: of this.

161
00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:34,320
Speaker 3: And the statement that he attributes to Nelson is the

162
00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:37,720
Speaker 3: same type of language that's in all of these Scarcella

163
00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:42,160
Speaker 3: Incamil cases when you have these quote unquote confessions.

164
00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:43,760
Speaker 1: And by the way, I have to say this before

165
00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:45,600
Speaker 1: I get back to Justin. It sounds to me like

166
00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:48,679
Speaker 1: you did everything right. You did what we always ask

167
00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:51,199
Speaker 1: people to do on the show, don't talk. You didn't

168
00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:53,560
Speaker 1: sign a piece of paper, although it sounded like a

169
00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:56,040
Speaker 1: pretty good offer, like to a kid in tenth grade.

170
00:08:56,120 --> 00:09:00,440
Speaker 1: So you did everything right and the system failed you. Anyway, Justin,

171
00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:03,680
Speaker 1: do you have a theory on how this Rodriguez character

172
00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:07,560
Speaker 1: could have possibly convinced the detectives that I mean, my

173
00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:09,640
Speaker 1: mind goes to a pretty dark place here. But why

174
00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:10,600
Speaker 1: did he finger Nelson?

175
00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:13,640
Speaker 3: The only theory I have is Rodriguez knew who Nelson

176
00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:16,600
Speaker 3: was and he just pinned it on somebody that maybe

177
00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:19,480
Speaker 3: looked more like him. Than anybody else did. But one

178
00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:22,720
Speaker 3: other thing about Edward or Rodriguez, the seventy fifth was

179
00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:25,880
Speaker 3: very familiar with him. He had multiple arrests from the

180
00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:29,079
Speaker 3: seventy fifth robbery I believe in nineteen ninety and then

181
00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:32,200
Speaker 3: a drug conviction in ninety five. He was on parole

182
00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:34,440
Speaker 3: at the time of this murder for that drug conviction

183
00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:35,240
Speaker 3: from ninety five.

184
00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:38,720
Speaker 1: They knew him, and they might have found him to

185
00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:41,880
Speaker 1: be useful, and in this case, they didn't want to

186
00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:44,520
Speaker 1: put him in jail. I mean, that's clear, because they

187
00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:47,080
Speaker 1: could have. They should have. It was their responsibility to

188
00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:49,760
Speaker 1: do so, and instead they decided to pin it on

189
00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:52,840
Speaker 1: an innocent man named Nelson Cruz, which was standard operating

190
00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:54,040
Speaker 1: procedure for them at that time.

191
00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:57,640
Speaker 3: Anyway, the seventy fifth, as Nelson said, is notorious. The

192
00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:00,240
Speaker 3: quote from Michael Race when he was ahead of that

193
00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:03,280
Speaker 3: squad from the early eighties into the early nineties, he

194
00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:06,600
Speaker 3: was involved with seven hundred and fifty homicide investigations and

195
00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:10,640
Speaker 3: only one time did they actually follow the rules. So

196
00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:13,960
Speaker 3: Rodriguez tells them I didn't do it, and they bring

197
00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:16,920
Speaker 3: Andre Bellinger in. He gives them the information that they

198
00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:19,120
Speaker 3: want to hear, and what we know about Andre Bellinger

199
00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:21,839
Speaker 3: is in nineteen eighty one, Andre Bellinger was charged with

200
00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:24,199
Speaker 3: murder and he only does a one and a half

201
00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:27,920
Speaker 3: to three. At the time of Nelson's arrest, Andre Bellinger

202
00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:30,920
Speaker 3: was working with the PAAL, which is the Police Athletic League,

203
00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:33,160
Speaker 3: and he lived only two blocks away from the seventy

204
00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:36,480
Speaker 3: fifth precinct. And what we know from a hearing what

205
00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:40,760
Speaker 3: Detective Brooks testifies to is right before the lineup Scarcel

206
00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:43,120
Speaker 3: and Camille, they're alone with Andre Bellinger.

207
00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:46,200
Speaker 1: So now we have to get to the trial. A

208
00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:50,520
Speaker 1: New York City police officer testified that they had not

209
00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:53,760
Speaker 1: seen Nelson Cruz at the scene. I'm going to read

210
00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:57,360
Speaker 1: the testimony here. Nelson, your lawyer walked the officer through

211
00:10:57,400 --> 00:10:59,840
Speaker 1: what happened. He said, did you see the muzzle flashes

212
00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:03,280
Speaker 1: of the gun. He answers, I saw muzzle flashes, and

213
00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:05,959
Speaker 1: you jumped out of the car almost immediately upon hearing

214
00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:09,600
Speaker 1: the shots. Correct, and the officer says correct, your gun drawn.

215
00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:12,960
Speaker 1: Officer says yes, did you ever see Nelson Cruz on

216
00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:16,080
Speaker 1: the scene. No? Did you ever see Nelson Cruz with

217
00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:19,440
Speaker 1: a nine millimeter handgun in his hand? No, you did

218
00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:23,920
Speaker 1: see Eduardo Rodriguez with a nine millimeter handgun in his hand. Correct. Yes,

219
00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:26,240
Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, you were pointing your nine

220
00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:30,600
Speaker 1: milimeter at him. Correct. Officer replies correct, because he had

221
00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:33,839
Speaker 1: a gun in his hand. Correct. Correct. And you were

222
00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:36,319
Speaker 1: screaming at the top of your lungs to drop the gun,

223
00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:41,080
Speaker 1: drop the gun. Correct. Officer replies correct. Now, that is

224
00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:44,520
Speaker 1: some of the most powerful testimony I have ever heard,

225
00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:48,319
Speaker 1: and all of it serves to prove that you could

226
00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:50,560
Speaker 1: not did not commit this crime.

227
00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:54,280
Speaker 4: You know, as you just read the testimony, I remember

228
00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:57,120
Speaker 4: it like yesterday, and I'm still confused, Jason, the only

229
00:11:57,160 --> 00:12:00,720
Speaker 4: one is against me was not like Rodriguez. At Montreal,

230
00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:05,120
Speaker 4: they used Andre Billinger. And when you ask Andre Billinger

231
00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:07,400
Speaker 4: to space, he was there from the beginning to the

232
00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:10,400
Speaker 4: Did you see police on the scene he states no.

233
00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:13,440
Speaker 4: We ask him, did you see anybody get arrested on

234
00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:17,160
Speaker 4: the crowd saying? He states no, so and my mom

235
00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:20,000
Speaker 4: is like, what crowd saying was this guy in?

236
00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:22,600
Speaker 1: How could you be confused as to whether or not

237
00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:25,079
Speaker 1: there were police officers? He wasn't confused. He said there weren't,

238
00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:27,200
Speaker 1: but there were. This is not a thing you could

239
00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:29,040
Speaker 1: mix up like the color of the shirt the guy

240
00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:29,880
Speaker 1: was wearing. You know.

241
00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:32,960
Speaker 3: Bellinger His story is that Nelson gets into it with

242
00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:36,240
Speaker 3: a guy named Shaq, and that Nelson drives his car,

243
00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:39,440
Speaker 3: comes back around and then gets into it with Vieira.

244
00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:42,880
Speaker 3: Bellinger says that Nelson accused Vieira of giving Shack a gun.

245
00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:46,840
Speaker 3: That Nelson just kills Vieira. That's basically Bellinger's story. No

246
00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:50,880
Speaker 3: one else says that, no one And what's interesting is

247
00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:53,640
Speaker 3: Shaq actually came to testify in twenty nineteen and he

248
00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:55,800
Speaker 3: said he never had a fight with Nelson Cruz, so

249
00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:57,920
Speaker 3: that was a made up story. And what corroborates what

250
00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:00,880
Speaker 3: Shaq says is when Andre Bellinger speaks to the conviction

251
00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:03,600
Speaker 3: review Unit in twenty fifteen, says he says he can't

252
00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:06,280
Speaker 3: even remember the incident with Shack, which is the whole

253
00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:11,120
Speaker 3: basis of this altercation. This case is a joke, okay.

254
00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:16,000
Speaker 1: Bellinger was also the least credible witness, not just because

255
00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:19,680
Speaker 1: of his background, but also because Bellinger testified that the

256
00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:23,559
Speaker 1: police told him who to identify. And Bellinger also testified

257
00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:25,840
Speaker 1: that he'd only been able to identify the murder weapon

258
00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:28,600
Speaker 1: as a nine millimeter gun because the police had told

259
00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:29,800
Speaker 1: him that's what it was.

260
00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:34,080
Speaker 3: They didn't know the gun that Rodriguez was arrested with

261
00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:37,200
Speaker 3: was the murder weapon until just before Nelson's trial. And

262
00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:40,360
Speaker 3: this is a common theme in policing from the NYPD

263
00:13:40,559 --> 00:13:45,160
Speaker 3: is they don't do any forensic investigation. Okay, so the

264
00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:48,600
Speaker 3: ballistics from the nine millimeter that Rodriguez has caught with

265
00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:51,560
Speaker 3: matched the shellcasings that murdered Trevor Vieira.

266
00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:55,280
Speaker 4: When the police officer testified states then he didn't see

267
00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:56,840
Speaker 4: me at all. He didn't send me with no gun,

268
00:13:56,880 --> 00:13:59,200
Speaker 4: he stated, who he's being able with the gun. I'm like,

269
00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:02,400
Speaker 4: I'm an go home. And at the end when the

270
00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:05,480
Speaker 4: tribute came back with the guilty murder, just believe it

271
00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:09,480
Speaker 4: and get sentence the twenty out of life. You've got

272
00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:12,800
Speaker 4: the god with the smoking gun. All five shell cases

273
00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:15,520
Speaker 4: match that gun. I still can't believe it.

274
00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:26,920
Speaker 1: This episode is brought to you by Stand Together. Stand

275
00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:30,720
Speaker 1: Together is a philanthropic community dedicated to helping people improve

276
00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:33,720
Speaker 1: their lives. For more than twenty years, Stand Together and

277
00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:36,080
Speaker 1: its partners have been on the front lines of criminal

278
00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:40,640
Speaker 1: justice reform by empowering people to take action, supporting nonprofits

279
00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:44,440
Speaker 1: and working with businesses. Stand Together tackles the root causes

280
00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:47,360
Speaker 1: of problems in our communities and empowers those closest to

281
00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:51,800
Speaker 1: the problems to drive solutions. Solutions like reducing unjust prison

282
00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:55,760
Speaker 1: sentences through the First Step Act, empowering community based programs

283
00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:58,960
Speaker 1: and help people re enter society, and now working to

284
00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:02,400
Speaker 1: bridge divides in our communities. To learn how you may

285
00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:09,440
Speaker 1: get involved, visit Standtogether dot org slash conviction. This episode

286
00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:13,520
Speaker 1: is underwritten by the AIG pro Bono Program. AIG is

287
00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:16,800
Speaker 1: a leading global insurance company, and for over a decade,

288
00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:20,560
Speaker 1: the AIG pro Bono Program has provided thousands of hours

289
00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:24,560
Speaker 1: of free legal services and other support to nonprofit organizations

290
00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:28,680
Speaker 1: and individuals most in need. More recently, the program added

291
00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:32,120
Speaker 1: criminal and social justice reform as a key pillar of

292
00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:43,320
Speaker 1: its mission. Nelson didn't exactly take this lying down. Instead,

293
00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:46,920
Speaker 1: you got busy behind bars, right, I mean tell us

294
00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:48,680
Speaker 1: about the actual innocence crewment.

295
00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:51,080
Speaker 4: Like I said, I was sentence to twenty five years

296
00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:53,720
Speaker 4: to life, and I'll come up to state. Didn't know

297
00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:57,760
Speaker 4: anything about the law, and I'm just setting a little

298
00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:00,720
Speaker 4: library actions for help, and you know, reading a lot

299
00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:04,880
Speaker 4: of statues and trying to familiarize myself. So I ran

300
00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:06,680
Speaker 4: across you know, a lot of good guys and they

301
00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:09,240
Speaker 4: teaching me about the laws. And at the same time,

302
00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:11,840
Speaker 4: I'm trying to gather up my evidence to submit my

303
00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:16,320
Speaker 4: affidavits to the Thought Division. At the time, my director

304
00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:19,440
Speaker 4: pill was pending. But I couldn't because you know, my family,

305
00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:21,800
Speaker 4: we're not rich. We're not rich, We we don't got

306
00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:24,800
Speaker 4: money like that to be hiring private investigator. So I

307
00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:27,040
Speaker 4: had my mother. She was, you know, going into these

308
00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:30,240
Speaker 4: dangerous projects, looking for my friends, looking for people that

309
00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:33,400
Speaker 4: was at the crime scene that night. And with the

310
00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:35,280
Speaker 4: help with my mother, I was getting phone numbers, and

311
00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:38,400
Speaker 4: with the phone numbers, I was contacting people's gathering evidence.

312
00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:40,720
Speaker 4: I had got about maybe two, like two or three

313
00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:43,240
Speaker 4: Afid Davis at first, and then my brother laid on

314
00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:46,400
Speaker 4: we had hire a private investigator to locate these witnesses

315
00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:50,040
Speaker 4: and get Abid Davis from them. And as I'm submitting

316
00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:52,720
Speaker 4: these motions to the court, I'm getting shot down. I'm

317
00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:55,200
Speaker 4: losing hope, but I'm still fighting because I said, listen,

318
00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:56,960
Speaker 4: something one day's son got to give here. I know

319
00:16:57,000 --> 00:16:59,080
Speaker 4: I ain't commited this crime, and to the course of

320
00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:01,800
Speaker 4: the years me being I'm hearing of a guy named Bush,

321
00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:04,560
Speaker 4: which is Derek Hamilton. I don't know if you're familiar

322
00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:07,040
Speaker 4: with him. He's a jail house William And I'm like, wow,

323
00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:08,680
Speaker 4: I got to meet this guy because I heard he's

324
00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:10,600
Speaker 4: a beast with the lord. So I end up meeting

325
00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:14,040
Speaker 4: Derek Hamilton in the law library and we exchanged information

326
00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:16,639
Speaker 4: D five and stuff like that, and I'm explaining to

327
00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:19,399
Speaker 4: him about my case. He reviewed my d D five.

328
00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:22,200
Speaker 4: He sees that scart seller name is in the bottom

329
00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:25,000
Speaker 4: and he's like, wow, this guy's in my case. He

330
00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:27,600
Speaker 4: loud on me on my case and he's fighting Actual

331
00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:31,679
Speaker 4: editing the same thing. So we leave Shawongong. We end

332
00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:35,040
Speaker 4: up in Auburn. When we go to Auburn Correction Facility again,

333
00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:38,600
Speaker 4: I'm in Laura Liveburn and I meet Shabaka Shabacca's there.

334
00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:41,000
Speaker 4: A guy by the name of Danny Ringkolng there also

335
00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:45,160
Speaker 4: fighting innocent and Derek ended up a rising. That's when

336
00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:48,320
Speaker 4: he came up with the name Actual Edison Team AI Team.

337
00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:50,800
Speaker 4: And what we was doing was like one day we

338
00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:53,080
Speaker 4: will work on my case, the next day we will

339
00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:55,600
Speaker 4: work on Derek case. Like that, we'll take turns on

340
00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:58,080
Speaker 4: each other case and Derek telling me, what the dude

341
00:17:58,160 --> 00:17:59,959
Speaker 4: right over here, right over here, do this, do that.

342
00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:01,600
Speaker 4: And at the same time I see telling me what

343
00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:04,440
Speaker 4: to do. I'm learning. And basically what I was doing

344
00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:07,000
Speaker 4: was lawyer shopping. I'm somemn in a big package with

345
00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:09,480
Speaker 4: all my evidence, with my AFFID Davis, my DD five

346
00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:12,639
Speaker 4: crime scene sketches that I drew, trying to get some

347
00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:15,680
Speaker 4: help from the outside. I wrote every actually innocent project.

348
00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:18,400
Speaker 4: I wrote governors, I wrote the President, I wrote everywhere Jason,

349
00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:21,320
Speaker 4: anywhere you can think of, I wrote. And at this

350
00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:24,800
Speaker 4: time Derek ended up going home in twenty eleven. So

351
00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:28,000
Speaker 4: Derek always told me, listen, I'm not gonna forget about you.

352
00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:30,320
Speaker 4: Once I'm making home, I'm near. I got you. I'm

353
00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:32,480
Speaker 4: not gonna forget And I don't heard that so many

354
00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:34,720
Speaker 4: times Jason being in here that you know, guys tell

355
00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:36,920
Speaker 4: you listen, they're gonna go home do this, and guys

356
00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:39,239
Speaker 4: just go home and live their life. So I'm like, wow, now,

357
00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:41,359
Speaker 4: I hope Deryck don't do this to me, you know.

358
00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:45,760
Speaker 4: And Derek went home and kept his word. Jason. He

359
00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:50,000
Speaker 4: put justin on my case and from there we gathered

360
00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:52,639
Speaker 4: more evidence, and I'm well not today.

361
00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:56,680
Speaker 1: Derek has been on the show, Danny ring kon Tobacca, Shakur.

362
00:18:56,920 --> 00:18:59,160
Speaker 1: I mean, all these people are people I know well,

363
00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:03,439
Speaker 1: and I've talked often about the awesome power that you

364
00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:06,879
Speaker 1: guys collectively manifested, all of whom had been through the

365
00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:09,760
Speaker 1: same experience at the hands of the same people, and

366
00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:12,800
Speaker 1: setting up basically a law firm inside the laws of

367
00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:16,639
Speaker 1: the prison. You know, call it whatever you want. Shakur, Cruz, Hamilton,

368
00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:18,919
Speaker 1: and Ringcone. I could see it on a letterhead, and

369
00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:21,440
Speaker 1: hopefully someday you guys will actually form a law firm

370
00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:23,760
Speaker 1: on the outside, because I think you guys would be

371
00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:27,600
Speaker 1: incredible together. Derek, when he was on wrongful Conviction, I

372
00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:29,520
Speaker 1: was like, oh my god, this is like interviewing a

373
00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:32,440
Speaker 1: yeah law professor. I mean, this guy is on fire,

374
00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:33,959
Speaker 1: so knowledgeable.

375
00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:37,280
Speaker 3: That is my mentor. By the way, Derek, we call

376
00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:40,160
Speaker 3: him mom Google Legal. Give him a fact and he'll

377
00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:40,879
Speaker 3: give you a case.

378
00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:43,920
Speaker 1: And Nelson, you should know it's Derek, but it's not

379
00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:47,320
Speaker 1: just Derek. I mean all of us are just super

380
00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:50,320
Speaker 1: committed to seeing you get home and get on with

381
00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:51,000
Speaker 1: your life.

382
00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:55,000
Speaker 3: So Nelson litigated his case, he filed an emotion of vacant,

383
00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:59,400
Speaker 3: he filed an appeal and got shot down at every

384
00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:02,600
Speaker 3: turn over the past twenty years. And so the hearing

385
00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:06,399
Speaker 3: that we were finally granted in twenty nineteen, and the

386
00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:10,040
Speaker 3: evidence that we presented was it was quite astounding. I mean, obviously,

387
00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:12,639
Speaker 3: we called Officer Paietti and again who said that he

388
00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:15,280
Speaker 3: did not see Nelson Cruz at the scene before, after,

389
00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:18,280
Speaker 3: or during the crime. We called William Harden who was

390
00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:22,359
Speaker 3: across the street watched the ponytailed man kill his friend.

391
00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:25,440
Speaker 3: He knew Trevor Vieira and did not see Nelson Cruz there.

392
00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:27,600
Speaker 3: He saw the police pull up at the scene. And

393
00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:29,960
Speaker 3: then we called William Johnson, who was the other man

394
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:32,520
Speaker 3: that was arrested at the scene, and he testified that

395
00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:34,679
Speaker 3: he knew Nelson Cruz and he did not see Nelson

396
00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:37,680
Speaker 3: Cruz at the scene. I mean, those are three eye witnesses.

397
00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:41,560
Speaker 3: We called two alibi witnesses, Ralph Johnson, and the only

398
00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:44,480
Speaker 3: questions that the DA had for Ralph Johnson was did

399
00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:47,080
Speaker 3: he eat his Chinese food or not that night. That's

400
00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:50,760
Speaker 3: how solid Ralph Johnson was on the witness stand. Another

401
00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:54,840
Speaker 3: alibi witness Bonnie Cooper, who was at the time Andre

402
00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:58,639
Speaker 3: Bellinger's mistress, testified that Andre Bellinger admitted to her he

403
00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:02,520
Speaker 3: never saw the crime. Christopher Cooper, Bonnie Cooper's son, who

404
00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:05,919
Speaker 3: was playing basketball with Andre Bellinger that night. Chris Cooper,

405
00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:08,760
Speaker 3: testified that Bellinger couldn't have seen it because the shooting

406
00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:11,040
Speaker 3: had already happened by the time they get there. We

407
00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:14,160
Speaker 3: also called Ja Salpeter, who was a private investigator who

408
00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:17,639
Speaker 3: interviewed Andre Bellinger, and he asked, Andre Bellinger, why didn't

409
00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:21,240
Speaker 3: you mention the police or Edward O. Rodriguez? And Bellinger

410
00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:25,720
Speaker 3: told j. Salpeter that the police never told him that

411
00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:29,320
Speaker 3: Rodriguez or the police were at the scene, I mean.

412
00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:33,400
Speaker 3: And we called Jermaine Fraser, the man Shack who Bellinger

413
00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:37,160
Speaker 3: said started this whole thing off, and Shaq testified that

414
00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:39,400
Speaker 3: he never pulled a gun out on Nelson, that there

415
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:42,280
Speaker 3: was never a dispute that night, that that's all false.

416
00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:45,280
Speaker 3: Of course, we called Scarcella and Camill and you know,

417
00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:48,879
Speaker 3: Scarcela has amnesia. He can remember what he was wearing

418
00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:51,200
Speaker 3: in nineteen seventy three, but when you ask him about

419
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:54,400
Speaker 3: the case that you're talking about now, he can't remember anything,

420
00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:57,320
Speaker 3: but Mark Brooks puts him in Camill right with Andre

421
00:21:57,400 --> 00:21:59,639
Speaker 3: Bellinger before the lineup. I mean, this was such a

422
00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:03,520
Speaker 3: bad blowout that April twelfth, twenty nineteen, I made an

423
00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:07,359
Speaker 3: oral argument and also on paper to release Nelson on bail,

424
00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:10,879
Speaker 3: which is astounding in the middle of a post conviction hearing.

425
00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:13,080
Speaker 3: It was going that bad that I said in the

426
00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:15,639
Speaker 3: interest of justice that this court should release him, and

427
00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:19,000
Speaker 3: Judge Simpson on that day said that Louis Scarcela was

428
00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:22,960
Speaker 3: totally involved with this case, Andre Bellinger was unreliable, and

429
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:26,280
Speaker 3: that Chris and Bonnie Cooper she found to be reliable witnesses.

430
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:31,879
Speaker 3: That was April. By August, she was in another place.

431
00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:34,640
Speaker 4: You know, God bless Chanda what happened. But I knew

432
00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:37,680
Speaker 4: something strange was going on. While she was deciding over

433
00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:41,239
Speaker 4: my hearing, Jason, she was, you know, moving funny. You know,

434
00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:45,399
Speaker 4: she would be given credit to certain amount witnesses testimony,

435
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:47,919
Speaker 4: and then later on when Justin highlights it to her,

436
00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:51,280
Speaker 4: it's like she's lost. Jason's like she don't know, like

437
00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:53,280
Speaker 4: what happened a couple of days ago. And at the

438
00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:55,440
Speaker 4: end when I went to the decision on August twenty ninth

439
00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:58,080
Speaker 4: when she's an my motion, Jason, I was like Lois,

440
00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:01,359
Speaker 4: but we found out that, you know, she was mentally

441
00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:04,119
Speaker 4: ill with al Zamas. Has she been in her right

442
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:05,919
Speaker 4: state of mind, I would have been home already.

443
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:09,960
Speaker 1: You know, there's no question. You know, Nelson is referring

444
00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:13,720
Speaker 1: to a very respected judge from the Brooklyn Supreme Court

445
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:16,960
Speaker 1: who was known for her willingness to vacate wrongful convictions.

446
00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:20,040
Speaker 1: Her name which is Shandiah Simpson, and she had ordered

447
00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:23,120
Speaker 1: due trials previously for other men who had been also

448
00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:26,560
Speaker 1: framed by Louis Scarcella. Listen to this quote. In the

449
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:30,320
Speaker 1: case of someone named Hargrove, Judge Simpson had this to

450
00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:36,000
Speaker 1: say specifically about Scarcella. The pattern and practice of Scarcella's conduct,

451
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:40,240
Speaker 1: which manifests a disregard for rules, law and the truth,

452
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:44,520
Speaker 1: undermines our judicial system and gives cause for a new

453
00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:47,399
Speaker 1: review of the evidence. I mean, she just called it

454
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:50,360
Speaker 1: out like it was, and here it is again right

455
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:53,600
Speaker 1: in front of her. But the craziest twist of fate,

456
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:56,280
Speaker 1: it was that this poor woman who's not an old

457
00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:58,840
Speaker 1: lady r she was in her young fifties. She had

458
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:02,679
Speaker 1: early on set Ali Alzheimer's and she just literally lost

459
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:03,280
Speaker 1: the plot.

460
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:08,040
Speaker 3: When I was listening to her decision on August twenty nineteen,

461
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:11,720
Speaker 3: the first decision she read off, I argued orally, she

462
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:15,439
Speaker 3: left the bench totally abruptly. A court officer came out

463
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:17,320
Speaker 3: and told us to come back after lunch, And when

464
00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:20,840
Speaker 3: she came back out after lunch, she read off another decision,

465
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:24,960
Speaker 3: which I was left wondering what hearing that she sat through.

466
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:28,840
Speaker 3: Her decision is based on an erroneous understanding of what

467
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:31,879
Speaker 3: we put forward. I mean, it's that we presented EDWARDO.

468
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:36,200
Speaker 3: Rodriguez as our witness for a self defense claim, which

469
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:38,479
Speaker 3: we never took that position. We always took the position

470
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:42,480
Speaker 3: at Edward Rodriguez was the killer. The prosecutor put Edward

471
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:46,359
Speaker 3: Rodriguez on the witness stand, so she misstated that, I mean,

472
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:47,400
Speaker 3: there's video of it.

473
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:51,240
Speaker 5: The present and hearing, and this decision falls on the

474
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:55,680
Speaker 5: following Rodriguez testified and his hearing that the Vistom fired

475
00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:58,640
Speaker 5: the first shot at Cruise and then Cruise shot back

476
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:02,359
Speaker 5: in self defense. The defense claims both that Rodriguez is

477
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:05,359
Speaker 5: unreliable and at the same time asks that the court

478
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:09,800
Speaker 5: find his testimony supports a claim of self defense, and

479
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:10,240
Speaker 5: that this.

480
00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:11,640
Speaker 3: Constitutes new evidence.

481
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:14,959
Speaker 5: For this reason, the motion must be denied.

482
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 6: You want to say.

483
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 2: Something never claimed that Rodriguez was newly discovered evidence claimed

484
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,400
Speaker 2: that Rodriguez was unreliable from day one.

485
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:24,399
Speaker 6: Well, they put him on.

486
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 3: That's the revidence.

487
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:30,000
Speaker 2: They put evidence on that contradicted the only evidence that

488
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:31,719
Speaker 2: was at trial, which is Andre Balinger.

489
00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:31,959
Speaker 1: Right.

490
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:35,439
Speaker 2: One witness who says the police told him who did it?

491
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:37,880
Speaker 3: Who says the police told them what weapon was used?

492
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:40,560
Speaker 3: Who even testifies that the police told him that Cruz

493
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:44,560
Speaker 3: was in the lineup. How reliable is that witness?

494
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:49,480
Speaker 2: And then we hear from a witness, the witness that

495
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:51,360
Speaker 2: is the first person.

496
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:56,240
Speaker 6: Who points to Nulson Cruz he has at guard, Agriguez

497
00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:01,240
Speaker 6: has a motive to lie, and then fifteen years later

498
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 6: says it self defense.

499
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:07,440
Speaker 3: We don't take his position. That's evidence that day put

500
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:08,480
Speaker 3: before the court.

501
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:11,680
Speaker 2: We're gonna believe that on the day of his birthday

502
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 2: he kills somebody.

503
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 3: Unfortunately, in cases like this, the law doesn't really protect

504
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:24,720
Speaker 3: a seventeen year old. I make my point that Rodriguez

505
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:28,119
Speaker 3: wasn't our witness, and she pulls everybody up to the

506
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 3: bench schedules a reargument, she never provides a written decision,

507
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:35,720
Speaker 3: and tells us to come back in December of twenty nineteen.

508
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 3: You do twelve sixteen, be back on twelve. That's a Monday.

509
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 1: I've shared this video with the district attorney myself. I

510
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,160
Speaker 1: like Eric personally, I do have a lot of respect

511
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 1: for him. I'm completely confused as to why this case

512
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:52,359
Speaker 1: has been ignored.

513
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:55,760
Speaker 4: When I came back from court last year, you know,

514
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 4: I pulled down my tite right and I started writing

515
00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:02,080
Speaker 4: and numerous letters to Evergon, to people under him, and

516
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 4: never received a response.

517
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:07,440
Speaker 1: There's a very powerful quote where you said in a

518
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:10,680
Speaker 1: letter to Eric Gonzalis, I know, deep in my heart

519
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:13,639
Speaker 1: something went wrong at my hearing. I know me reaching

520
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:15,119
Speaker 1: out to you may not be the proper way to

521
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:16,959
Speaker 1: go about it, but I truly need help in this

522
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:19,240
Speaker 1: matter and feel that you have the power to step

523
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:22,480
Speaker 1: in and conduct an investigation. And of course, a year

524
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 1: after the hearing, in early August twenty twenty, it was

525
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:27,520
Speaker 1: confirmed that Judge Simpson had early on said Alzheimer's and

526
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:28,600
Speaker 1: she retired.

527
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:30,680
Speaker 4: You know, they should be ashame of what they're doing

528
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 4: with me. Something went wrong Domnis proceed and something was

529
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 4: wrong with the judge, and you got the power of

530
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 4: the empathene. You got to see all you you to do,

531
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 4: which you know, I think ever since Kenneth Thompson died,

532
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 4: they not following what Kenneth Thompson was doing.

533
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:09,400
Speaker 1: So justin a reargument was granted. It's tragic what happened

534
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:13,200
Speaker 1: for Judge Sandaiah Simpson. What the fuck happens now?

535
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 3: So, in a normal course, the judge will issue a

536
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:20,360
Speaker 3: written decision, the court will enter the decision. She granted

537
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 3: the motion to reargue, which is very, very very rare.

538
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 3: She never issues a written decision. The court doesn't even

539
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 3: enter this decision, which is what has to be done.

540
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:34,239
Speaker 3: So almost a year goes by and in August of

541
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 3: twenty twenty, we find out that Judge Simpson has been

542
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:42,200
Speaker 3: diagnosed with Alzheimer's. So then Judge Demik, the administrative judge,

543
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 3: assigns Raymond L. Rodriguez to the case. So we file

544
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 3: the reargument and Judge Rodriguez told us that he wouldn't

545
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:53,560
Speaker 3: hear any of these filings, that the only thing that

546
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:57,960
Speaker 3: was in front of him was Judge Simpson's competency during

547
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 3: the hearing and when she rendered her decision.

548
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 1: Right, but which decision, the initial denial of the motion

549
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 1: to vacate or the decision to grant a reargument.

550
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:10,480
Speaker 3: You bring up a phenomenal point. This is a very

551
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:15,280
Speaker 3: confusing procedural history. He tells us in January of twenty

552
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:19,240
Speaker 3: twenty one that the motion to reargue was taken off

553
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 3: the calendar. He was not going to hear it. The

554
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:26,360
Speaker 3: only thing he ruled on is her oral decision denying

555
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:29,960
Speaker 3: the motion to vacate, the conviction and the motion to vacate.

556
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 3: Her decision based upon her competency. He basically says that

557
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,280
Speaker 3: I'm not going to deal with the fact that she

558
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:39,160
Speaker 3: granted reargument, which I don't know how he does that

559
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 3: she already granted it. And then on March first, twenty

560
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 3: twenty one, Judge Raymond Rodriguez determined that she was competent

561
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 3: and upheld her oral decision to deny Nelson Cruz's motion

562
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 3: to vacate. And it's very interesting because in our motion

563
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:57,640
Speaker 3: to vacate Judge Simpson's decision that we filed back on

564
00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 3: August of twenty twenty, we had an affidavit from an

565
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:03,880
Speaker 3: investigator that spoke to her husband. We also had a

566
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 3: pro public article where the husband spoke and said that

567
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:09,320
Speaker 3: he had noticed that Judge Simpson's mental health had been

568
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:12,800
Speaker 3: slipping as far back as the summer of twenty eighteen,

569
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:16,360
Speaker 3: which is almost a year before Nelson Cruz's actual hearing,

570
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 3: let alone the decision. So Judge Rodriguez said that all

571
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:23,800
Speaker 3: of that information was speculative and said, I see how

572
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 3: she could come to her decision. There's a reasonable basis

573
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 3: for her decision. I don't know how he comes to

574
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 3: that decision because he's not a doctor, and to be frank,

575
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 3: I mean, he's not a mind reader. So Judge Rodriguez's decision,

576
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 3: we filing leave to appeal. We're also filing a motion

577
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 3: to compel a written decision from the Supreme Court because

578
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:49,920
Speaker 3: it's our position that Judge Simpson's oral decision wasn't effectively

579
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:52,800
Speaker 3: a decision. It was never filed it, it was never signed

580
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:55,400
Speaker 3: off on by her, and how could she sign off

581
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 3: on it. Two days after she was in court and

582
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:00,720
Speaker 3: rendered that decision, she went on medically because she was

583
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 3: suffering from Alzheimer's.

584
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 1: So justin this case is just fucking outrageous, And I

585
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:08,480
Speaker 1: know a lot of our listeners are going to want

586
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 1: to do something after they hear this. So what kind

587
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:12,920
Speaker 1: of action cand of just a regular person take.

588
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 3: We set up a petition on change dot org. They

589
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:20,120
Speaker 3: can sign off on the petition and prayerfully the Brooklyn

590
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:23,720
Speaker 3: DA's office and the judges in Brooklyn will see people

591
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 3: signing off on this petition.

592
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 1: There's going to be a link in the bio. You

593
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 1: can take an action that will add up to making

594
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:33,080
Speaker 1: a difference and getting the attention to this awful case

595
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:35,760
Speaker 1: that it deserves. And now this is the part of

596
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 1: the show that we call closing arguments, and this is

597
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:41,520
Speaker 1: where I first of all, thank both of you for

598
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 1: being here. Justin Bonus criminal defense attorney and Nelson Cruz

599
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 1: wrongfully convicted from behind bars. Thank you both for being here.

600
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:52,320
Speaker 1: And now I'm going to turn my microphone off and

601
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 1: listen to each of you share your final thoughts on

602
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 1: whatever you want to talk about. And so let's leave

603
00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 1: the best for last, of course, that's Nelson Cruz. And

604
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 1: first over to you Justin for closing arguments.

605
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:07,840
Speaker 3: I just want to make it clear to everybody that

606
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 3: this is a disgrace. The Mountains of Evidence show that

607
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:15,400
Speaker 3: this man is innocent, and the DA's office says the

608
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:20,080
Speaker 3: ability to interview our witnesses, our witnesses were consistent in

609
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 3: the conviction review process. Their witnesses weren't consistent. And believe me,

610
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:27,640
Speaker 3: they treated our witnesses differently than they treated their witnesses.

611
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:33,000
Speaker 3: And this is just it's disgraceful. Andre Bellinger came in

612
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:36,680
Speaker 3: in twenty nineteen and he said his trial testimony was truthful.

613
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:40,200
Speaker 3: He maintained his trial testimony, which is that they told

614
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 3: him what type of gun was used. They told him

615
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 3: that it was Nelson Cruz. They told him ed WARDO

616
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:50,120
Speaker 3: Rodriguez wasn't reliable. They told him they needed him because

617
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 3: EDWARDO Rodriguez wasn't reliable. They told him that Nelson Cruz

618
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 3: was going to be in the lineup. This is the

619
00:32:56,560 --> 00:33:01,520
Speaker 3: only piece of evidence that convicted Nelson Cruz. I don't

620
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 3: really know if I have to say anything more other

621
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 3: than you heard what I said about what was presented

622
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:09,040
Speaker 3: at the hearing. And that's without saying that Scarcella and

623
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:11,960
Speaker 3: Stephen Camill were involved in this case. To top it off,

624
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:16,080
Speaker 3: they were involved. If ever, there was a case that

625
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:19,600
Speaker 3: was presented in court where clear and convincing evidence was

626
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 3: presented that a man was actually innocent. It was Nelson

627
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 3: Cruz's case.

628
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 1: Nelson, over to you for the last word.

629
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 4: Thank you who first will Jason sharing my stories in

630
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:34,960
Speaker 4: the air, and like my attorney, Justin bon has just said,

631
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:38,240
Speaker 4: right now, I'm just hoping we all the you know,

632
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 4: the amount of evidence that I have shown the I

633
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 4: commit this clown in the next day, the next few weeks,

634
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 4: or the next month's coming, I'll be exonerated. I'm just

635
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:50,520
Speaker 4: you know, praying to get out of here. Enough is enough.

636
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 4: You know, I don't suffer it a lot in here.

637
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 4: I don't lost my parents since I've been incarcerated. It's

638
00:33:57,160 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 4: been all for me. It's been all for me.

639
00:33:58,720 --> 00:33:58,920
Speaker 1: You know.

640
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 4: Sometimes I gets frustrated and you know, I lose hope,

641
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 4: but I'll fight against it. I'm move forward. I'm move forward.

642
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:12,600
Speaker 4: And you know, once again, thank you, Jason. I appreciate

643
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:15,560
Speaker 4: you and you know everyone that's listening. I hope I

644
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:18,759
Speaker 4: heard my story. Yeah, yeah, hearing it from me directly,

645
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:23,800
Speaker 4: and that's what's been going on with me for almost

646
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:28,800
Speaker 4: twenty three years.

647
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:34,400
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to wrongful conviction with Jason flamm.

648
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:37,960
Speaker 1: Please support your local innocence projects and go to the

649
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 1: link in our bio to see how you can help.

650
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:43,479
Speaker 1: I'd like to thank our production team Connor Hall, Jeff

651
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:47,360
Speaker 1: Cliburn and Kevin Wardis. The music on the show, as always,

652
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:50,960
Speaker 1: is by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be

653
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:54,279
Speaker 1: sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction and

654
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:58,640
Speaker 1: on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast. Wrongful Conviction with Jason

655
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:01,000
Speaker 1: Flahm is a production of Law Up for Good Podcasts

656
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 1: and association with Signal Company Number one