1 00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:07,680 Speaker 1: Body does, but Joseph's gotten more. My grandfather, who I 2 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 1: referred to as papau and interestingly enough, my grandchildren refer 3 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:17,599 Speaker 1: to me as Papa, and it's a badge I wear 4 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:22,759 Speaker 1: with great pride. I loved both of my grandfathers, but 5 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 1: there was one in particular that I spent a lot 6 00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 1: of time with as a child, and he was a big, big, 7 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:34,959 Speaker 1: robust man. He raised horses and mules, farmed, and then 8 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:38,199 Speaker 1: worked for the power company. In addition to that, he 9 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:44,280 Speaker 1: was always busy doing something. He was a man that 10 00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:48,920 Speaker 1: was essentially afraid of nothing, at least in my young eyes. 11 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 1: But I remember in nineteen eighty three, I hadn't seen 12 00:00:54,720 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 1: my grandfather and I don't know, probably two years, and 13 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 1: I went to visit him in his home in the 14 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:09,440 Speaker 1: Louisiana and when I did, he was a shell of 15 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 1: his former self, metasac brain cancer had literally eaten him alive. 16 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 1: He still recognized me, though, and we spent hours talking. 17 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 1: Cancer is something that you hate any you hate to 18 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:36,000 Speaker 1: see anybody go through, and it's there's this ominous feeling 19 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:40,479 Speaker 1: that you get when you get that diagnosis. I've had 20 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 1: other members of my family that have died as well 21 00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 1: from cancer. But just imagine, if you will, a case 22 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 1: so sinister that a cancer diagnosis pales when it comes 23 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:01,960 Speaker 1: to the truth of what acts happened to a woman 24 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 1: who was alleged to have had terminal cancer, but yet 25 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 1: she disappears off of the face of the planet. I'm 26 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:18,480 Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan, and this is Bodybacks, David. You know, 27 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:20,799 Speaker 1: I've always thought, I've always had it in the back 28 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 1: of my mind. You can call me a conspiracy theorist. 29 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:25,800 Speaker 1: I don't care. I've always had in the back of 30 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:28,040 Speaker 1: my mind that there is a cure for cancer out there, 31 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:32,960 Speaker 1: and it's just it hasn't come about. I think probably 32 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 1: for monetary reasons. That's what it comes down to. I 33 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:38,240 Speaker 1: don't want to go too far down this rabbit hole. 34 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 1: I don't want to get you fired up today, but 35 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:43,360 Speaker 1: I see it, and I see you know, I've seen 36 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 1: the you know, as a death investigator particularly, I've seen 37 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 1: the end results. You know. I've had to go to 38 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 1: many homes or people have passed away that had cancer 39 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 1: and they may have died for other reasons, but they 40 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:59,359 Speaker 1: had cancer and there's that withering and it's so sad 41 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 1: because it's this slow march that goes on. And you know, Dave, 42 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 1: it's something when you can actually find the case that 43 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about today where you know, cancer 44 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:16,639 Speaker 1: plays in this diagnoses of cancer plays in to the narrative. 45 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:19,920 Speaker 1: But it's, like I said in my opening, this is 46 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 1: something even more sinister, I think than cancer. 47 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:32,800 Speaker 2: Using cancer as the explanation for where a person has gone, 48 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 2: might have gone, why they're missing, because that's what actually happened. 49 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 2: Seventy six year old Jackie Glenn is missing, and any 50 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:44,640 Speaker 2: person of that age that just goes missing. And in 51 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 2: this case, she has children, adult children, she has three 52 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 2: grandchildren that call her Yaya, and they want to know 53 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 2: where she is. And her husband, who is stepfather to 54 00:03:56,080 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 2: her adult children, tells them, well, she's recently diagnosed with 55 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 2: cancer terminal and you know, maybe she just decided to 56 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 2: go away. I mean, it was a very flimsy excuse 57 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 2: and by the way, easily checkable for those of us 58 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 2: which who have a family member or maybe you yourself 59 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:25,560 Speaker 2: have suffered from cancer, to use that as this placeholder. 60 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:29,839 Speaker 1: Oh, it's just despicable. It's hard, you know, I say, 61 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 1: I use this term a lot. It's really hard to 62 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 1: plumb the depths of how of how sickening this is. 63 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:44,279 Speaker 1: And you talk about verification. In my experience working for 64 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 1: a medical examiner's office and we have to deal with 65 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 1: cases involving cancer where for any number of reasons, you 66 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 1: might be requested by family to do an autopsy and 67 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:01,840 Speaker 1: they're they're asking you to examine the body in the 68 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 1: post mortem state to see if the diagnosis was accurate. 69 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 1: Because I don't know if folks are aware of this. 70 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:10,919 Speaker 1: Many times it's very hard for a family to convince 71 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:16,720 Speaker 1: a hospital pathologist to do an autopsy. They don't lean 72 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 1: into the practice as much as they did at one 73 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:22,520 Speaker 1: point in time. And so I've been involved both as 74 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:26,240 Speaker 1: an autopsy assistant and as an investigator in cases of cancer. 75 00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:30,240 Speaker 1: And when you see these ravaged bodies, you know that 76 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:33,839 Speaker 1: come before you and you're doing this, and it's as 77 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 1: a as an observer first off, as you know, as 78 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 1: an employee at a medical examiner's office, you see the 79 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 1: pathology that's before you, and you see the progression that 80 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 1: has taken place. As a family member that has gone 81 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:57,479 Speaker 1: through this, it really it's a real kick in the 82 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 1: head if you will, that someone would take this and 83 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 1: use it to essentially offer up a reason why this 84 00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:07,720 Speaker 1: woman would disappear off of the face of the planet. Now, 85 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:10,480 Speaker 1: this happened actually up in Nashville. This has been an 86 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 1: ongoing case for some time. But you know, thankfully the 87 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:17,400 Speaker 1: family has some resolution now. But Dave, here's something I'd 88 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:22,240 Speaker 1: like to ask about. I think I think that at 89 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 1: some point along the way what they referred to as 90 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:31,440 Speaker 1: a silver alert was issued relative to this poor woman. 91 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 1: Is that correct. 92 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:36,480 Speaker 2: That's what they do with seniors that go missing, and 93 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 2: different than an amber alert, And the silver alert is 94 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:44,120 Speaker 2: something that we see when it applies to an older 95 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 2: person who has gone missing. And in this case, I 96 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:51,880 Speaker 2: actually was looking at the terminology. You know, it's to 97 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:53,479 Speaker 2: me it's a fairly new one. It could have been 98 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:55,760 Speaker 2: around for a long time. I don't remember. I just 99 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:57,760 Speaker 2: know that I've just certainly picked up on it. 100 00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:00,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it is new or day. I think 101 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:01,560 Speaker 1: you're right, brother. 102 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, So they issued the silver warning or warning 103 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 2: bullet bulletin rather sorry, the silver aller was issued, he says. 104 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 1: Joe. 105 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 2: The silver aller says, please help us find Jackie Glenn 106 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 2: seventy six, last scene January first, at her abbot Martin 107 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 2: rode home and you know, she drives this car and whatever. 108 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 2: Very simple, but she's missing. They don't give an explanation 109 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 2: as to what's going on in her world or anything 110 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 2: else at this point, though, I'm gonna be honest, Joe, 111 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 2: I wonder how quickly police were onto this, and I 112 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:41,440 Speaker 2: think it was fairly early on because as they're investigating, 113 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 2: the first person they're going to talk to is going 114 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 2: to be the spouse in this particular case, seventy year 115 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 2: old Joseph Glynn, and he's going to tell them what happened, 116 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 2: which is all fresh. It's happened January first, Okay, January 117 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:58,840 Speaker 2: first is when they issue the silver alert that she's missing. 118 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:03,440 Speaker 2: And it didn't take long for all this to turn 119 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 2: around very quickly because the family, first of all, their 120 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 2: stepfather is telling them she has terminal cancer and went 121 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 2: somewhere to be herself maybe, and they didn't buy it. Look, 122 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 2: let me give you a background on Jackie Glenn. This 123 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 2: is a very accomplished woman. Joe I was amazed by this. 124 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:29,920 Speaker 2: She basically had two major careers. Very educated by the way. 125 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:35,199 Speaker 2: She actually earned her bachelor's degree from Peabody College of 126 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:37,920 Speaker 2: Education and then later earned a master's degree of marketing. 127 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 2: Her two careers first one was spent in education. Her 128 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:49,600 Speaker 2: focus was on helping children that were on the spectrum, 129 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:52,719 Speaker 2: children who had learning issues and things like that. That 130 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:56,600 Speaker 2: was her passion. Joe, can you imagine what type of person. 131 00:08:56,679 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 2: I have a niece that does this and I know 132 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 2: she's very special and being able to deal with these 133 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:04,560 Speaker 2: children helping them loom. That was Jackie Glynn. And then 134 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:09,240 Speaker 2: she decided to follow her next step, which was as 135 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:13,400 Speaker 2: a wedding planner, a party planner, a marketing person. 136 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:14,360 Speaker 1: That's what she did. 137 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 2: She's got this educated, full time career and decides all right, 138 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:21,720 Speaker 2: time for something new, and she is a very successful 139 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 2: wedding event benu planner. She actually opens up Riverwood Mansion, 140 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 2: very successful. And she likes to travel, so she would 141 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:35,760 Speaker 2: take the girls. You know, I say the girls meaning 142 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:39,240 Speaker 2: could be sister's granddaughter, anybody, but female trip, you know, 143 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 2: like we would do a guy trip, you me, And well, 144 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:44,960 Speaker 2: they did girl trips. And these girl trips weren't too 145 00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 2: chatoogie river to go fishing. It was They're going to 146 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:52,840 Speaker 2: Tuscany and France and Ireland and you know, just these 147 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:55,120 Speaker 2: huge trips that she would find. I mean, this was 148 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:58,560 Speaker 2: a very special woman for a lot of people. And 149 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:02,080 Speaker 2: just reading a her and thinking what a heart she 150 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 2: has for people, and to hear that she's been diagnosed 151 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 2: with a terminal illness, terminal cancer and has just vanished 152 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:14,040 Speaker 2: the family was like, that's not the mother the grandmother 153 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:14,560 Speaker 2: that I know. 154 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:17,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I tell you, Dave, that's a basic element 155 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:28,120 Speaker 1: in an investigative procedure. And a woman that is this 156 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 1: outgoing and that has so many people kind of orbiting 157 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:35,200 Speaker 1: her sphere. You know, when you think about the lives 158 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 1: that she's contacted, first off as an educator and then 159 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:43,559 Speaker 1: my gosh, wedding planning, he real is how many people 160 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 1: you have to come in contact with with that profession. 161 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:50,680 Speaker 1: And it's not like she's completely disconnected from her family 162 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:53,880 Speaker 1: if she's doing these are very intimate moments that she 163 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 1: has where she's going abroad. I mean, all you gotta 164 00:10:56,920 --> 00:11:00,280 Speaker 1: do is pack into a hotel room with somebody, or 165 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 1: on a cruise with somebody for a couple of days 166 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:06,280 Speaker 1: or a week, and you get to know them very well, 167 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 1: and plus you've already got familial attachments. How in the 168 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 1: world would anybody think that they could put forth this 169 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:21,480 Speaker 1: idea that she is dying of a terminal diagnosis, and 170 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:25,360 Speaker 1: that no one would have heard peep from her about this. 171 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:29,240 Speaker 1: That's what's so striking about this day. To me, at least, 172 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:31,920 Speaker 1: it's very I think you'd use the term it's a 173 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:36,200 Speaker 1: very thin kind of excuse, and it's easily explored. The 174 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:40,640 Speaker 1: thing about cancer diagnoses is that if you have family, 175 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:45,960 Speaker 1: many times families are in on decisions that are made. 176 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:48,200 Speaker 1: And I'm not talking about like end of life things. 177 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:50,960 Speaker 1: What I'm talking about is how are we going to 178 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:55,320 Speaker 1: coordinate getting someone to and from treatment. That is a 179 00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:59,600 Speaker 1: big part of terminal illness with cancer. The reason is 180 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:03,000 Speaker 1: is that the treatments that they offer weak in the 181 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:06,560 Speaker 1: body so much that you're as weak as a newborn kid, 182 00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:11,440 Speaker 1: and afterwards not to mention your markedly sick as well. 183 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:15,959 Speaker 1: So it requires like several people many times to do this. 184 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 1: Most of the time it's going to be a family member, 185 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:21,440 Speaker 1: somebody in your intimate circling. As you had mentioned this 186 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:26,160 Speaker 1: husband of hers, the stepfather to her children. He would 187 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 1: be the first point of contact we would want to 188 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:32,840 Speaker 1: explore with because he's already put this narrative out there 189 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:38,160 Speaker 1: invested from an investigative standpoint. He told her children specifically 190 00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 1: that she has been diagnosed and that she has and 191 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:47,080 Speaker 1: this is kind of the curious thing. In consultation with 192 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:51,440 Speaker 1: her physician that is treating her, she's going to go 193 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:56,960 Speaker 1: make these end of life decisions, which again is very 194 00:12:57,040 --> 00:13:02,440 Speaker 1: very ominous, and of course the trail eventually goes cold. 195 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:08,959 Speaker 1: The fact that her husband would offer up this information 196 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:13,760 Speaker 1: to her children that their mother has made a decision 197 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 1: about end of life preparations per her physician is somewhat ominous, 198 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:25,040 Speaker 1: and of course the trail goes cold. They have no 199 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:40,839 Speaker 1: idea where their mother is. So Jackie Glenn Dave is 200 00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:46,079 Speaker 1: married to this man, Joe Glenn, and he has put 201 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:55,000 Speaker 1: forth this idea that Jackie is involved with what he 202 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 1: names as a support group. And here's kind of the 203 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:04,160 Speaker 1: chilling thing, so that she could die on her terms 204 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:09,960 Speaker 1: and she just vanishes off the face of the planet. 205 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:12,080 Speaker 1: And it's at that point in time that you know, 206 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:16,719 Speaker 1: I think that the children, you know, they suspect a 207 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:21,360 Speaker 1: rat here. They have to because after the silver alert 208 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:25,480 Speaker 1: is issued and she's they're looking for a car, her car, 209 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:31,080 Speaker 1: and it's like a twenty ten rab four SUV with 210 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:34,520 Speaker 1: Tennessee plates. Now I see these cars on the road, 211 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:39,560 Speaker 1: But have you ever have you ever gotten startled awake 212 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 1: in the middle of the night by your phone going 213 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:44,080 Speaker 1: off with one of these alerts. It makes me jump 214 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:46,320 Speaker 1: out of my skin almost when these things go off. 215 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 1: And the first time you hear one of these things, 216 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:51,400 Speaker 1: and it's generally for an Amber alert a missing child, 217 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 1: it blasts out this message that they're looking for a 218 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:57,480 Speaker 1: specific vehicle. Now, I've had these go off in the day, 219 00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:01,320 Speaker 1: and I can catch myself when they give a vehicle 220 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:03,920 Speaker 1: script on these, my head gets on the swivel. I 221 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 1: start seeing these cars everywhere, and I'm thinking, you know, 222 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:11,280 Speaker 1: is this is this the you know, is this the 223 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:16,080 Speaker 1: person that's missing? Or in most cases with Amber alerts, 224 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 1: many times it's some kind of domestic beef between a 225 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:23,560 Speaker 1: mom and a dad and the mom or the dad 226 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 1: have snatched the kids and they're running off with them, 227 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 1: and of course you're going to be looking around you. 228 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:32,840 Speaker 1: You're kind of hyper aware, if you will. But nothing 229 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:34,440 Speaker 1: developed from this. 230 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 2: Dave I started looking about how would the family would 231 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:44,280 Speaker 2: how would Jackie's family react to stepfather giving them these 232 00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 2: intimate details of her life when he's he's not their dad, 233 00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 2: you know, for the grandkids that they know him as 234 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 2: papa or whatever. 235 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 1: You know. 236 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:56,040 Speaker 2: But they've only been married twenty four years, Jackie Glenn 237 00:15:56,120 --> 00:16:00,400 Speaker 2: and Joe Glenn, So I say, only you know, twenty 238 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 2: four years. But she's seventy six, so that means she's 239 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:10,600 Speaker 2: in her early fifties when they marry, an established entrepreneur, educator. 240 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:11,760 Speaker 1: And so. 241 00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:16,480 Speaker 2: I don't know how the family felt about Joseph Glenn. 242 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:19,640 Speaker 2: I do know that they did not bite hook lion 243 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:22,680 Speaker 2: sinker on his story that she has terminal cancer, is 244 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:25,440 Speaker 2: in a support group and has just abandoned everybody she 245 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:28,680 Speaker 2: loves and cares about, going against everything they know about 246 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:30,920 Speaker 2: her as their mother and grandmother, and. 247 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:31,760 Speaker 1: Just takes off. 248 00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:36,320 Speaker 2: So police immediately are talking to Joseph Glenn, and it 249 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 2: takes no time at all to talk to a doctor. Hey, Joe, 250 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:42,840 Speaker 2: terminal cancer, who's your doctor? This is not a heavy 251 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:46,920 Speaker 2: lift figuring out you know what happened? And it's the police. 252 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:49,320 Speaker 2: They're calling the doctor. No, you can't share a lot 253 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 2: of information, doctor, But she's missing, and husband's suggesting that 254 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:57,120 Speaker 2: maybe she has taken off because she doesn't want to die. 255 00:16:57,200 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 2: In front of her family or something. What do you 256 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:03,120 Speaker 2: suspect is going on here? Well, I suspect that if 257 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:07,720 Speaker 2: he doesn't have cancer? Really yeah, yeah, they couldn't the doctor. 258 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:11,000 Speaker 2: The doctor said, I'm not treating her for this. And 259 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:13,600 Speaker 2: that's that's what makes this so ridiculous when you begin 260 00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:16,439 Speaker 2: to think about it, because this is this is a 261 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:20,080 Speaker 2: specific diagnosis. This is not this is not some kind 262 00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:22,480 Speaker 2: of thing that's kind of floating out in the ether. 263 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:27,040 Speaker 1: Uh. This is very specific because before doctors will actually 264 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:30,360 Speaker 1: make a diagnosis like this, there's all kinds of testing 265 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:35,000 Speaker 1: that you go through. You can have certainly extensive blood 266 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:38,600 Speaker 1: work that's performed. If there is a tumor that they 267 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:41,439 Speaker 1: suspect as a tumor, they're going to go in and 268 00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:44,040 Speaker 1: do a section of that, perhaps maybe a fine needle 269 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:47,000 Speaker 1: aspiration or one of these things, and first off, they're 270 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:49,960 Speaker 1: going to see if this is the primary tumor. They're 271 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:53,280 Speaker 1: going to see if it's you know, perhaps has metastasized 272 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 1: somewhere else. And not to mention all of the imaging, Dave, 273 00:17:56,640 --> 00:18:00,760 Speaker 1: So we're we're not talking about a process where you 274 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:03,919 Speaker 1: walk into a doctor's office and you've got a raging 275 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:07,560 Speaker 1: head cold and they see you, they might do a 276 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:09,760 Speaker 1: head X ray for whatever reason. I don't know why, 277 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:12,680 Speaker 1: but they're going to say this is probably an advanced state. 278 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:15,200 Speaker 1: You've got an advanced case of sin. You sidus. Here, 279 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:17,679 Speaker 1: We're going to put you on some antibiotics. Here's some decongestion. 280 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 1: It's not that passive. This is something that involves multiple people. 281 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:24,920 Speaker 1: But I can tell you who I think smelled a 282 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 1: rat with this and this is this is actually Jackie's son, 283 00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:32,960 Speaker 1: because you know he I think, if I'm not mistaken, 284 00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 1: he had an app that he had access to that 285 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:38,000 Speaker 1: could track her phone everywhere window he. 286 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:43,200 Speaker 2: Has life three sixty and they're able to because immediately, 287 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:46,280 Speaker 2: well we got to find her, and he steps up 288 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 2: and says, well, I've got this app, let's try that. 289 00:18:49,119 --> 00:18:57,080 Speaker 2: And it led them to odd driving patterns of Joe Glenn, 290 00:18:58,119 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 2: not Jackie Joe, and it didn't take the investigators long 291 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:06,480 Speaker 2: to bring Joe in and sweat him. Got to find 292 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:10,240 Speaker 2: out what happened, Joe tell us. And that's where based 293 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:12,719 Speaker 2: on the information and Joe, You've been much more involved 294 00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:16,000 Speaker 2: in this than I have. At the investigative level, what 295 00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:18,280 Speaker 2: are we looking for because we are in the first 296 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:21,960 Speaker 2: couple of days. She missing on January first, and they're 297 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 2: talking to Joe that week, Joe Glenn, the husband. What 298 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:33,720 Speaker 2: condition are we expecting to find her body in at 299 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:36,639 Speaker 2: this stage of the game, assuming she's dead, are police 300 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:40,400 Speaker 2: going to do that? Or in talking with this husband, 301 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:42,560 Speaker 2: are they going to assume he killed her already and 302 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:44,480 Speaker 2: she's gone. I mean, he's not hiding her. Why would 303 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:47,119 Speaker 2: he hide his own wife? Where are they going to 304 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:48,960 Speaker 2: Are they going to jump to any conclusions here? 305 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:52,720 Speaker 1: Well, I don't know that they necessarily jump to conclusions, 306 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:57,040 Speaker 1: but they're going to target, you know, again, an intimate 307 00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:00,200 Speaker 1: They're going to target that person that has acts in 308 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:04,399 Speaker 1: control or potential access and control over the life of 309 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:08,240 Speaker 1: somebody that they share a home with, that they're in 310 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 1: an intimate relationship with. And one of the first things 311 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:13,439 Speaker 1: that you want to do is to if she's not 312 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 1: at the house, if they have thoroughly searched that property 313 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 1: gone from stem discern there, you have to ask yourself, well, 314 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:25,960 Speaker 1: does Joe Glenn have any other property? Are there any 315 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:33,000 Speaker 1: other locations that he might frequent where she could be 316 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:37,960 Speaker 1: Because you're seeing this movement and electronic forensics is fascinating 317 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:41,960 Speaker 1: if you think about this phone kind of pinging about 318 00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:46,560 Speaker 1: and it's traveling in tandem perhaps with his you get 319 00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:50,199 Speaker 1: this idea that he's going to know where she was 320 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:53,760 Speaker 1: lasting alive, and you've got these things traveling in tandem, 321 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:56,800 Speaker 1: and that's very hard if you're a suspect. That's very 322 00:20:56,840 --> 00:21:02,520 Speaker 1: difficult to explain away. Reflecting back to the young airman 323 00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:07,119 Speaker 1: from the Air Force that had gone to the Mennonite 324 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:12,640 Speaker 1: Mennonite compound, I think I think it was New Mexico 325 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:16,399 Speaker 1: where this occurred, and he kidnapped the young Mennonite woman 326 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:19,560 Speaker 1: and you could see their phones traveling in tandem down 327 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:21,359 Speaker 1: the road, and of course he winds up killing her 328 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:25,520 Speaker 1: and burying her back in Arizona, and that's very hard 329 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:29,439 Speaker 1: to escape. I think as far as circumstantial evidence goes 330 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:32,320 Speaker 1: that you know, because you're still in the mode as 331 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 1: an investigator, you're still in the mode that this is 332 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:38,679 Speaker 1: a missing person, okay, up to a point. Now you 333 00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:42,119 Speaker 1: can when you begin to hear what he is saying 334 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:47,040 Speaker 1: to try to explain it away, it becomes progressively more 335 00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:51,679 Speaker 1: ominous and dark because you know that she just doesn't 336 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:56,840 Speaker 1: vanish merely off the face of the planet. You're wondering, well, 337 00:21:57,000 --> 00:21:59,879 Speaker 1: if you have, if you've been traveling with her, or 338 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:03,080 Speaker 1: least her phone, how is it that you came to 339 00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:05,159 Speaker 1: be in possession of her phone? Why is it that 340 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 1: she would drop completely out of contact in order to 341 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:13,880 Speaker 1: go get this care that she was seeking per her physician, 342 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:17,640 Speaker 1: with her support group. Because once you get caught up 343 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:23,000 Speaker 1: in that lie, the intensity of the light that you're 344 00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 1: going to be under relative to the cops is going 345 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:30,200 Speaker 1: to brighten all the more, and they're going to look 346 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:35,720 Speaker 1: into every comment that you've made, every movement that you've made, 347 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:39,480 Speaker 1: any other peripheral statements that you may have mentioned to 348 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 1: family members, co workers, anything like that. So that's going 349 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:46,520 Speaker 1: to put them in a position where they're going to 350 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:49,919 Speaker 1: zero in on you. And I think that the big question. 351 00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:53,159 Speaker 1: And I know, and you know, I hate why, But 352 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:57,119 Speaker 1: let's just say what what would have been his motivation 353 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:02,560 Speaker 1: for lying about this? What would be his motivation to 354 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:07,560 Speaker 1: essentially make her vanish off the face of the planet. 355 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:09,359 Speaker 1: And that's what the police are faced with, Dave. 356 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:16,640 Speaker 2: Interesting that the family totally shocked to their core. Interesting 357 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:20,560 Speaker 2: in that they were involved with helping the police determine 358 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:23,480 Speaker 2: who the victim is in Jackie Glenn, what type of 359 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:26,959 Speaker 2: individual she is? What would they expect? And they're talking 360 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:29,399 Speaker 2: about this, you know, in such a way that the 361 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:36,240 Speaker 2: police really know that she didn't leave, and they are 362 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:38,760 Speaker 2: able to as you say, they zero went on Joe Glenn. 363 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:42,320 Speaker 2: And once they get Joe Glenn in a room and 364 00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:45,159 Speaker 2: they're hitting him with Okay, buddy, you said she's got 365 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:49,440 Speaker 2: terminal cancer. She doesn't. We've tracked her phone with you 366 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:52,200 Speaker 2: and you're making all these tracks. Now granted it's see 367 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:55,200 Speaker 2: your own property that you own, but still, why are 368 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:57,879 Speaker 2: you doing all this when your wife supposedly is missing? 369 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:01,720 Speaker 2: And he has no explanation? So Joe, it doesn't take 370 00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:09,040 Speaker 2: long for Joe Glenn to cough up to the investigators 371 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:15,639 Speaker 2: what they're looking for. And as far as interviews with 372 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:18,920 Speaker 2: police go, the ones that I tend to see are 373 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:21,879 Speaker 2: are the crazy ones where somebody's trying to lie their 374 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:25,600 Speaker 2: way out of a jam. Rarely do we see an 375 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:28,480 Speaker 2: interview or hear of an interview that goes like this one. 376 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:29,120 Speaker 2: Did Joe? 377 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:35,680 Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, And in very short order, the police were 378 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:40,680 Speaker 1: able to determine what had happened to Jackie Glenn's body. 379 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:45,480 Speaker 1: But Dave, when I tell you what he had done 380 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:50,439 Speaker 1: to her and with her. It's going to send a 381 00:24:50,520 --> 00:25:05,920 Speaker 1: chill Danner spine. My wife and I travel quite a bit, Dave, 382 00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:10,080 Speaker 1: you know, generally short trips. I mean, we do take 383 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:15,960 Speaker 1: trips overseas every now and then. It's generally work related, 384 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:20,560 Speaker 1: but I like to have my grandkids with me and 385 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:24,440 Speaker 1: so we don't stray too far away from the American South. 386 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:27,200 Speaker 1: Go to the beach in the South, go the mountains 387 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:31,840 Speaker 1: in the South, that sort of thing. But one thing 388 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:35,800 Speaker 1: I never could quite get right, even as a young father, 389 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:39,679 Speaker 1: was one of those luggage carrier things that you have 390 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:42,440 Speaker 1: to strap to the roof of a car. I don't 391 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:44,880 Speaker 1: know what it is. I guess I was intimidated by 392 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:48,200 Speaker 1: them always and I always bottom used so that we're 393 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:52,160 Speaker 1: probably always busted every single one that I had, and 394 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:55,040 Speaker 1: I had a tough time kind of getting things arranged. 395 00:25:56,200 --> 00:26:00,520 Speaker 1: But Dave, I got to tell you, you know, when 396 00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:07,640 Speaker 1: the police began to interview this man and he made 397 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:13,679 Speaker 1: this big reveal regarding Jackie, it led the police to 398 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:17,400 Speaker 1: a location where he had actually disposed of her body, 399 00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:21,679 Speaker 1: and he used a very unique method, I think, and 400 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 1: one of the things that kind of trips criminals up 401 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:31,080 Speaker 1: many times in regards to the burial of a body. 402 00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:38,359 Speaker 1: It didn't they recover her remains on property that Joe 403 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:39,119 Speaker 1: Glenn owned. 404 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,800 Speaker 2: To back up, Joe Glenn admitted to killing her. Just 405 00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:45,320 Speaker 2: so we know, Joe Glenn confessed to police. They hit 406 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:47,320 Speaker 2: him with all this evidence they've you know, as we 407 00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:50,439 Speaker 2: were mentioning a minute ago about his travels with Jackie 408 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:53,760 Speaker 2: that the cancer nothing makes sense. Joe tells what happened, 409 00:26:54,240 --> 00:27:00,240 Speaker 2: and at first he tells them what he did to her. 410 00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:05,080 Speaker 2: And you and I deal with Nancy Grace on her show, 411 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 2: and you do so many other shows. We oftentimes talk 412 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 2: about when a person begins to plan a murder, and 413 00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:18,400 Speaker 2: you know, there's always that moment of when they decided 414 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:19,800 Speaker 2: to go for it, and it could be in the 415 00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 2: blink of an eye. Right, We've heard that, and you know, yeah, 416 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:28,879 Speaker 2: I'm like, but anyway, he can't Joe, as he explains 417 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:32,040 Speaker 2: how he killed his wife of twenty four years, he 418 00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:34,679 Speaker 2: can't claim it was just spur of the moment. Got 419 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:36,359 Speaker 2: into an argument and I grab what was nearest and 420 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:42,239 Speaker 2: started bashing because weeks before he killed his wife on 421 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:46,520 Speaker 2: January first, and the day the missed the silver missing 422 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:49,639 Speaker 2: alert went out three weeks before then. He had a 423 00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:53,199 Speaker 2: guy digging a trench out on property. They owned a 424 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:58,320 Speaker 2: big trench, and he also bought a plastic tarp and 425 00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:00,960 Speaker 2: he bought a couple of other things that came into 426 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:06,520 Speaker 2: play when he kills his wife on January first. So 427 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:11,879 Speaker 2: the idea that he had this planned out ahead of 428 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:14,960 Speaker 2: time kind of lays out before you. It's not like, Joe, 429 00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:16,840 Speaker 2: I can't believe what happened. We got into really horrible 430 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:19,240 Speaker 2: argument and I just I was so mad and I 431 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:22,639 Speaker 2: hit her with a hammer. Can't even say that he 432 00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:26,800 Speaker 2: planned it by the ditch, by the arm, dude, he 433 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:28,280 Speaker 2: beat her to death with a hammer. 434 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:31,720 Speaker 1: Joe, Yeah, no. And this is you know, we talk 435 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:36,560 Speaker 1: about many times in cases, this factor of premeditative events, 436 00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 1: where there's a lot of planning involved in this. And 437 00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:46,200 Speaker 1: here's the thing. Many people will be very meticulous about 438 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:48,960 Speaker 1: what they're going to do with an individual. I think 439 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:56,719 Speaker 1: that until they're actually faced with with what the future 440 00:28:56,760 --> 00:29:01,040 Speaker 1: holds for them, it's like they don't give that consideration. 441 00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:04,080 Speaker 1: But they'll go through these stages. Do you realize what 442 00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:06,360 Speaker 1: it would take to have somebody come out and trench 443 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:08,920 Speaker 1: out an area on a piece of property. And this 444 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:12,640 Speaker 1: is this piece of property that they owned is essentially 445 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:17,520 Speaker 1: in it's a there are multiple lots around this area 446 00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:20,480 Speaker 1: where you're going to have home builds that are going 447 00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:22,640 Speaker 1: to go in. And that's a big piece of property 448 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:28,600 Speaker 1: and it's outside of Nashville. He specifically asked someone to 449 00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:32,120 Speaker 1: trench this area out. Now here's problem one. Now you're 450 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:38,920 Speaker 1: involving a separate subject. Okay, you're involving this individual to 451 00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:40,960 Speaker 1: help you, and they might not be aware of it. 452 00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:44,000 Speaker 1: Help you facilitate a crime. Okay, and you can do 453 00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:46,880 Speaker 1: this without knowing it. You know, man owns the property. 454 00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:50,920 Speaker 1: Wan's going to come out and trench something out? Okay, Yeah, 455 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:53,720 Speaker 1: that's what I do. I've got the equipment. I'll tell 456 00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:56,120 Speaker 1: you what my hourly rate is, and you paid me 457 00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:57,640 Speaker 1: and done and done. 458 00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:01,600 Speaker 2: The fact a leert on your phone and you're like, hey, 459 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:03,080 Speaker 2: I know this guy. 460 00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:06,840 Speaker 1: I know exactly the car. Yeah, that's got to be 461 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:11,960 Speaker 1: just absolutely terrifying. So in this he had gone to 462 00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:17,920 Speaker 1: great links to plan first off, where he was going 463 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:21,880 Speaker 1: to place a body once he wound up killing his wife. 464 00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:26,760 Speaker 1: And then I've been thinking about to Steve, and I'm 465 00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:30,920 Speaker 1: wondering does he stop midstream throughout all of this, after 466 00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:34,280 Speaker 1: he's gone through all these elaborate steps to facilitate this, 467 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:37,560 Speaker 1: and he's thinking, oh my gosh, now what am I 468 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:42,720 Speaker 1: going to tell everybody? How do I explain that that 469 00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:46,240 Speaker 1: she's vanished at this point time? Oh, I've got it cancer, 470 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:49,239 Speaker 1: you know, And so that pops into his mind and 471 00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:52,120 Speaker 1: this is the most expedient thing that he can do 472 00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:55,160 Speaker 1: relative to this. But Dave, you know, once they started 473 00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:58,640 Speaker 1: putting pressure on him, you know, I think that she 474 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:03,720 Speaker 1: died on January first, twenty twenty four, and they wind 475 00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:08,480 Speaker 1: up within four days of recovering her remains. So he 476 00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:11,560 Speaker 1: spilled all of the beans, all of the work that 477 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:15,720 Speaker 1: he had put into this. But you know that you 478 00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:20,760 Speaker 1: talk about that it was you know, you think people think, well, 479 00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:24,360 Speaker 1: what could have driven him to rage like this? Well, 480 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:28,360 Speaker 1: this was not a reactionary event, Dave. This was not 481 00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:33,800 Speaker 1: a reactionary event because you think about hammer and you think, well, 482 00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:36,320 Speaker 1: we got into a fight. As you had mentioned, you 483 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:39,320 Speaker 1: pick up the closest object, which we refer to as 484 00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:43,680 Speaker 1: a weapon of convenience, and then you begin to attack 485 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:49,440 Speaker 1: somebody viciously. Because hammer attacks are beyond the pale. No, 486 00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:52,960 Speaker 1: he had been thinking about this weeks in advance. He 487 00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:57,520 Speaker 1: had time. This is the tough part. He had time. 488 00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:02,480 Speaker 1: If you're going to kill somebody, you know, why is 489 00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:04,840 Speaker 1: it I'm using the word why. What would be your 490 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:08,920 Speaker 1: motivation for doing it in such a brutal manner? Do 491 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:09,520 Speaker 1: you not have a. 492 00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:10,560 Speaker 2: Wepe you're planning it out? 493 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:14,160 Speaker 1: If you're planning yeah, so you know. To me, this 494 00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:17,840 Speaker 1: indicates a lot of anger. This is a blunt force 495 00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:22,680 Speaker 1: trauma that he is exacting upon this woman when he 496 00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:26,280 Speaker 1: beats her to death with this. Now, once you do this, 497 00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:29,560 Speaker 1: what are you going to do with their body? And 498 00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:31,880 Speaker 1: that's that's the odd thing about this. And I see 499 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:34,640 Speaker 1: this lots of times in what we refer to as 500 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:38,000 Speaker 1: a clandestine burial. By the way, I'm actually teaching a 501 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:42,960 Speaker 1: class this semester at Jacksonville State called clandestine burials, And 502 00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:46,200 Speaker 1: this fits right in with the narrative that we see. 503 00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:50,239 Speaker 1: You just never know what perpetrators are going to do 504 00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:53,840 Speaker 1: with human remains. And I've seen this in my career 505 00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:57,320 Speaker 1: as well. You know, Dave he this idea of cocooning 506 00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:01,800 Speaker 1: a body. It's one of the big gifts for someone 507 00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:06,280 Speaker 1: in forensics that a perpetrator can do. Because he took 508 00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:11,840 Speaker 1: the aforementioned tarp that you'd mentioned and wrapped her body 509 00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:15,120 Speaker 1: in it, and then in this trenched out area, he 510 00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:19,480 Speaker 1: took a luggage carrier for a car and entombed her 511 00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:25,240 Speaker 1: body in that and then pushed everything in on top 512 00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:27,960 Speaker 1: of it to cover the body. Now I can tell 513 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:32,680 Speaker 1: you this when you show up at a clandestine burial site. 514 00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:37,640 Speaker 1: One of the things you're looking for, as far as 515 00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:39,840 Speaker 1: we have two things that we talk about. We talk 516 00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:43,280 Speaker 1: about the topography and we talk about the taphonomy. And 517 00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:46,800 Speaker 1: so the topography is essentially the lay of the land. 518 00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:50,080 Speaker 1: You know, is it a flat space, does it rise? 519 00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:53,360 Speaker 1: Does it fall? Then you have taphonomy, and that goes 520 00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:57,080 Speaker 1: into this idea of the changes in the soil, the 521 00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:02,840 Speaker 1: configuration of soil. Are you impacted by erosion, water? You know, 522 00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:04,920 Speaker 1: So you have to have a mix of all of this, 523 00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:07,280 Speaker 1: and then you analyze the scene. This is such a 524 00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:10,040 Speaker 1: fresh dig that there's no way that you would have 525 00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:13,640 Speaker 1: like and plus it's wintertime in Tennessee, by the way, 526 00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:16,320 Speaker 1: we're talking about in January, so you're not going to 527 00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:19,040 Speaker 1: have like little sprigs of grass growing up you're going 528 00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:22,560 Speaker 1: to be looking at bear earth, what they refer to 529 00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:29,200 Speaker 1: as recently turned earth, and it really, you know, it's 530 00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:31,200 Speaker 1: one of these moments in time where you would if 531 00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:33,880 Speaker 1: you could take this guy aside and look at him 532 00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:36,680 Speaker 1: and say, does your mind work? You know, what's the 533 00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:41,040 Speaker 1: deal with this? Why would you go to these links 534 00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:45,000 Speaker 1: that you went to? And then you're going to roll over? 535 00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:47,680 Speaker 1: Because you know Dave, he actually wound up rolling over 536 00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:51,600 Speaker 1: on this case. He rolled over to the point where 537 00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:56,279 Speaker 1: they were able to not only find her body, but 538 00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:02,799 Speaker 1: this guy takes the weapon, which is a hammer, and 539 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:06,240 Speaker 1: places it into a dumpster, so the police are actually 540 00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:10,279 Speaker 1: able to recover this weapon. And that we've heard the 541 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:13,839 Speaker 1: term smoking gun. This is a blood soaked hammer, if 542 00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:16,840 Speaker 1: you will. It's going to have some element, some trace 543 00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:19,840 Speaker 1: element on it, whether it's blood or hair. You're talking 544 00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:24,560 Speaker 1: about multiple blunt force impacts to the skull, and it's 545 00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:28,759 Speaker 1: the card's principle. Every time you take that hammer and 546 00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:31,919 Speaker 1: you impact it onto the skull, you're talking about drawing 547 00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:35,520 Speaker 1: away blood that's on the surface. After you've broken the 548 00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:39,880 Speaker 1: skin with this massive laceration, You've got hair that is 549 00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:43,400 Speaker 1: probably attached to the head of this hammer, because blood 550 00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:45,880 Speaker 1: is so tacky and you're traumatizing the scalp to the 551 00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:49,520 Speaker 1: point where you're literally pulling hair out. That I've even 552 00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:52,440 Speaker 1: seen cases with blunt force trauma where you will have 553 00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:54,920 Speaker 1: bits of tissue and I'm not talking about like brain, 554 00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:57,759 Speaker 1: I'm just talking about skin that will attach itself to 555 00:35:57,800 --> 00:35:59,759 Speaker 1: the surface of the weapon, and it can be any 556 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:05,640 Speaker 1: number of types of weapons. So he actually gifted the 557 00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:10,640 Speaker 1: police with these evidence rich elements that he had, and 558 00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:14,160 Speaker 1: he went so far as to preserve the body because 559 00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:18,800 Speaker 1: not only is she in this plastic encasement that you 560 00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:21,479 Speaker 1: would normally put luggage in and tied to the top 561 00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:23,840 Speaker 1: of your car when you're heading down to Florida with 562 00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:28,759 Speaker 1: your family, he's got her wrapped in a tarp. So 563 00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:32,360 Speaker 1: any kind of trace forensic evidence, like a person to 564 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:35,799 Speaker 1: person contact, that's not going to dissipate. And she's been 565 00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:38,520 Speaker 1: in the ground for such a very very short period 566 00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:41,880 Speaker 1: of time that they're not going to have to fight 567 00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:44,680 Speaker 1: a lot of decompositional changes with Jackie's body. 568 00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:46,840 Speaker 2: Dave, and I did want to ask you about that, Joe, 569 00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:50,320 Speaker 2: want to play one thing out very quickly. On top 570 00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:55,840 Speaker 2: of everything you just outlined investigators found a note, a 571 00:36:55,880 --> 00:37:02,680 Speaker 2: handwritten note that Joe had written down about his to 572 00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:07,200 Speaker 2: do list. He actually had written down items that he 573 00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:11,400 Speaker 2: needed to pick up, including a hammer and a tarp. 574 00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:16,960 Speaker 2: He wrote this down before again going back to premeditation. 575 00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:20,239 Speaker 2: It wasn't just all of a sudden boom, it was 576 00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:23,160 Speaker 2: I need these items. He also planned on items of 577 00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:25,359 Speaker 2: hers that he was going to sell very quickly too. 578 00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:28,719 Speaker 2: For whatever reason, I don't know, but I wanted to 579 00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:32,000 Speaker 2: ask you, Joe, because we know according to Joe Glenn, 580 00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:36,440 Speaker 2: he killed her on January first, he buried her the 581 00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:45,000 Speaker 2: next day. With how much deterioration would occur in her 582 00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:48,400 Speaker 2: body in that period of time of less than twenty 583 00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:51,200 Speaker 2: four hours at her age? And by the way, does 584 00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:53,960 Speaker 2: age have anything to do with how quickly a body 585 00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:54,560 Speaker 2: breaks down? 586 00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:57,879 Speaker 1: No, it really does. That's an excellent question. I don't 587 00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:01,200 Speaker 1: think of ever had anybody ask me that question, But yeah, 588 00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:06,239 Speaker 1: it is. It is fascinating when you think about it. 589 00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:11,200 Speaker 1: You would think that that perhaps your chronological age might 590 00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:14,480 Speaker 1: have some kind of impact on the progression of decomposition 591 00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:18,560 Speaker 1: a body. It really doesn't. Uh. Now, if you're if 592 00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:24,920 Speaker 1: you're more robust, muscular with muscularly that might have some 593 00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:31,800 Speaker 1: impact relative to the presentation of something like Roger Mortis. Okay, 594 00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:34,359 Speaker 1: but when we're you know, and we just did an 595 00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:40,080 Speaker 1: episode recently they where we talked about decompositional proceeds in 596 00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:44,480 Speaker 1: a micro sense, and but we're talking about now, we're 597 00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:49,200 Speaker 1: talking about macro where where it's a broader or broader 598 00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:53,160 Speaker 1: scope where you're looking for deterioration in a body. You're 599 00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:55,120 Speaker 1: not going to see a lot of that at all 600 00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:58,720 Speaker 1: with her body at this point in time. And here's 601 00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:01,880 Speaker 1: another piece to this, which I think is significant, because 602 00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:07,040 Speaker 1: not only she been concooned and encased, she's been she's 603 00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:10,799 Speaker 1: in a subterranean state where she's buried. And you've got 604 00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:14,920 Speaker 1: a coolness that's set in. Remember, I mean, obviously Tennessee doesn't. 605 00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:17,160 Speaker 1: It's not like permafrost or something that you would see 606 00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:21,480 Speaker 1: in northern Minnesota or in Alaska or Canada. But you're 607 00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:24,479 Speaker 1: talking about soil temperature. The ground temperature is very cool 608 00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:26,920 Speaker 1: as well. So that's going to aid in the preservation 609 00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:30,520 Speaker 1: of the remains. You're not going to see a lot 610 00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:36,359 Speaker 1: of decay in the body. What I'm fascinated by, I 611 00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:38,680 Speaker 1: think is what are they going to find at the 612 00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:41,399 Speaker 1: scene as far as elements that can be tied back 613 00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:46,800 Speaker 1: directly to this husband. Are there any kind of instruments 614 00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:50,440 Speaker 1: that he may have used at the scene that that 615 00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:56,279 Speaker 1: facility helped him facilitate finishing up this area that he's 616 00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:59,719 Speaker 1: dug out. Here's one more thing that I don't know 617 00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:03,279 Speaker 1: if think about this or not. You're talking about plastic here. 618 00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:06,800 Speaker 1: You're talking about a plastic covering and this travel case. 619 00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:12,320 Speaker 1: Guess what I'd like to know how long he's owned 620 00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:16,719 Speaker 1: this thing, because if this is a recent purchase, you 621 00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:19,799 Speaker 1: might find other people's fingerprints on this. They're not going 622 00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:22,320 Speaker 1: to be deteriorated, particularly on the interier. If he's grabbing 623 00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:26,239 Speaker 1: the interior to lid and like lowering it down, this 624 00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:28,880 Speaker 1: is probably going to be It might be slightly textured, 625 00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:31,040 Speaker 1: but it might be a non poor surface. You would 626 00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:35,760 Speaker 1: be able to recover fingerprints from the underside of this carrier. 627 00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:38,760 Speaker 1: And in addition to this, this is a plastic tarp. 628 00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:43,040 Speaker 1: You could actually take that tarp and fume it with 629 00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:46,560 Speaker 1: like super glue perhaps, and you would be able to 630 00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:52,120 Speaker 1: determine if in fact this was something that he had 631 00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:53,279 Speaker 1: had his hand on. 632 00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:55,759 Speaker 2: And oddly enough, a lot of the forensic stuff won't 633 00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:59,920 Speaker 2: even come into play because Joe Glenn actually surprised us. 634 00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:05,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, Joe Glenn actually admitted to killing his wife, 635 00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:11,040 Speaker 1: beating her to death with a hammer, and then taking 636 00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:17,360 Speaker 1: her body and wrapping it, placing it into this car carrier, 637 00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:21,920 Speaker 1: and then placing the entirety of all of those elements 638 00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:25,600 Speaker 1: into a pre dug hole. I think that we can 639 00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:29,960 Speaker 1: conclude that Glenn knew what he was looking at. He's 640 00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:35,920 Speaker 1: looking at the police having this huge collection of evidence 641 00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:40,120 Speaker 1: that is going to point directly at him. But I 642 00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:44,320 Speaker 1: can tell you this. On Wednesday, August the twenty eighth, 643 00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:50,640 Speaker 1: Joseph Glenn pled guilty to the charge of first degree 644 00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:57,640 Speaker 1: murder and he has now been sentenced to life. I'm 645 00:41:57,719 --> 00:42:08,200 Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan, and this is bodybags