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Speaker 1: I've seen some crazy things covering tech for the last

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Speaker 1: fifteen years. People in love with robots, Internet conspiracy, rabbit holes,

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Speaker 1: whole industries.

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Speaker 2: Upended by innovation.

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Speaker 1: Cut to today, we are living through one of the

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Speaker 1: most extraordinary tech accelerations in human history. Artificial intelligence is

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Speaker 1: transforming society. There isn't an industry or a human that

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Speaker 1: won't be impacted. But as a longtime tech reporter and

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Speaker 1: a mom, nothing feels more personal to me than what

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Speaker 1: AI means for our children. When it comes to tech,

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Speaker 1: our kids become the ultimate beta testers, and as someone

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Speaker 1: who's spent my career looking around the corners, I can't

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Speaker 1: stop thinking about deep fakes, AI companions, the future of education,

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Speaker 1: and how this will fundamentally transform what it means for

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Speaker 1: our little ones to grow and thrive in today's world. Now,

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Speaker 1: don't get me wrong, I love the possibility of AI.

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Speaker 1: I use it all the time. It just feels more

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Speaker 1: high states and small hands.

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Speaker 3: If we don't understand what feels good about something, we're

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Speaker 3: going to always miss out with our kids about the

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Speaker 3: things that draw them to that thing.

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Speaker 1: Which is why I wanted to launch a tech show

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Speaker 1: with the ultimate human expert, Doctor Becky.

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Speaker 3: And if we don't understand what's going to draw them

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Speaker 3: to AI emotionally, and a lot will, then they're going

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Speaker 3: to have to keep that entire part of their life

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Speaker 3: separate from us, and we won't hear about it.

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Speaker 1: Now, if you're a parent, you know exactly who I'm

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Speaker 1: talking about. If not, Doctor Becky is called the millennial

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Speaker 1: parent Whisper. She's a clinical psychologist and the founder of

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Speaker 1: Good Inside, a website, community and an app that guides

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Speaker 1: parents through all the tricky phases. So I wanted doctor

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Speaker 1: Becky to help sort through some of the human questions

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Speaker 1: that AI is raising. She's here to give us all

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Speaker 1: a sense of agency, whether you're a parent or not.

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Speaker 1: She wants to help us face the anxiety around AI

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Speaker 1: and also embrace the positive potential of it place in

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Speaker 1: our lives. I'm Laurie Siegel, and you're listening to Mostly Humans,

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Speaker 1: a tech podcast through a human lens.

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Speaker 2: Doctor Becky.

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Speaker 1: I am so excited to be here with you, and

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Speaker 1: I have to just like confess, and I said this

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Speaker 1: to you before, but like I have to confess. I

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Speaker 1: was leaving the house. My child has had a stomach bug.

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Speaker 1: He was just at the doctor yesterday for a finger

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Speaker 1: infection and he just got his first sunburn. And I

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Speaker 1: was leaving the house and my husband was like, should

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Speaker 1: we call social services on herself? Like are we doing okay?

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Speaker 1: And I was like, do not say this. I am

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Speaker 1: going to interview doctor Becky. That's a bad omen. And

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Speaker 1: so yeah, that's here we are.

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Speaker 3: But I'll say what I said to you about those moments.

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Speaker 2: It sounds so much better coming from you.

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Speaker 3: You say it that I would say to your husband. No,

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Speaker 3: we are building resilience. That resilience is built in hard

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Speaker 3: moments with support, not rescuing. But oh that sunburn hurts.

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Speaker 3: Oh your belly hurts, Like you need the hard moment

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Speaker 3: and you need the support. That doesn't mean we should

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Speaker 3: give hard moments. That's not what I'm saying. But the

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Speaker 3: hard moments naturally arise because we're imperfect people raising imperfect people,

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Speaker 3: and the hard moments arise, and we actually don't want

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Speaker 3: to take them away. We just want to let our

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Speaker 3: kids know they can get through that. And so sounds

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Speaker 3: like that's what you're doing.

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Speaker 2: I love that, John, Did you did you hear John?

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Speaker 3: That was for you?

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Speaker 4: Yep?

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Speaker 2: Love that.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Now that that's out of the way. My background

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Speaker 1: is covering technology. I've covered it for almost fifteen years,

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Speaker 1: which in tech years, just makes me feel very ancient.

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Speaker 1: But the human impact of tech and your background is

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Speaker 1: just you are this force in the parenting community. And

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Speaker 1: what's so interesting is five years ago you didn't even

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Speaker 1: have an Instagram account, like you were practicing psychologists here

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Speaker 1: in New York City helping council families behind closed doors.

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Speaker 2: Technology has some.

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Speaker 1: Degree just like opened you up to the world and

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Speaker 1: gifted us all so many of these insights that I

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Speaker 1: think make so many parents feel less alone. I'm curious, like,

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Speaker 1: how do you feel at this point about becoming an

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Speaker 1: online figure, especially representing something that's just so incredibly powerful.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I've never been asked that question. How

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Speaker 3: do I feel about that part? I mean, I guess

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Speaker 3: in some ways I feel conflicted. I mean, what I

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Speaker 3: don't feel at all conflicted about and what I feel

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Speaker 3: so grateful for is I feel like I get to

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Speaker 3: wake up every day and think about topics and come

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Speaker 3: up with new ideas and hear people's stories and connect

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Speaker 3: with families in ways that just light me up inside.

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Speaker 3: Like to actually say, you spend a lot of your

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Speaker 3: waking hours doing the things that light you up. I'm

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Speaker 3: only grateful for that part. The part that I guess

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Speaker 3: I feel a little more conflicted about is, yeah, like,

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Speaker 3: the thing that keeps us all human, and the thing

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Speaker 3: that really matters for our mental health, for our groundedness,

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Speaker 3: you know, up until this point at least for the

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Speaker 3: evolution of our species is the way we connect with

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Speaker 3: one another. Human connection is the essence of attachment. Attachment

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Speaker 3: is such an evolutionary force. We kind of need other people,

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Speaker 3: need to be on stood by other people, and we

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Speaker 3: also need friction with other people. It's through those moments

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Speaker 3: of friction and relationships. Oh you didn't get me. I

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Speaker 3: wanted to tell you a story and you're not really listening,

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Speaker 3: and I want to tell you about my day, and

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Speaker 3: you want to tell me about your day, and how

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Speaker 3: are we going to manage that? And you try to

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Speaker 3: fix the situation when I just wanted you to listen, Like,

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Speaker 3: it's actually all those moments of friction, yeah, that give

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Speaker 3: us identity and purpose and resilience. And So when I

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Speaker 3: think about my online persona, the only part of it

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Speaker 3: I guess I feel conflicted about is wanting to continue

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Speaker 3: to show up in a way that's never too polished,

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Speaker 3: that never has me pretending to be someone I'm not.

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Speaker 3: So why I try to say all the time, like

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Speaker 3: all this doctor Becky's stuff, I don't do myself, and

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Speaker 3: I really don't, and I feel guilty about that, Like

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Speaker 3: I'm a parent. I'm trying to do my best every

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Speaker 3: day and I'm messing up every other moment too. And

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Speaker 3: so I think there's something that happens when people go

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Speaker 3: online that there's this veneer, there's this pedestal, and that

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Speaker 3: actually takes away from the humanness, and so that part

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Speaker 3: I just try to, you know, really steer clear from.

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Speaker 1: I think it's so interesting what you say about this

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Speaker 1: idea of friction, and I want to get into that

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Speaker 1: actually through the lens of artificial intelligence. I spend like

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Speaker 1: so much time kind of in the AI space and

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Speaker 1: weird Reddit threads and talking you know, in the in

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Speaker 1: corners of the Internet. But before I get into I'd

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Speaker 1: love to talk just a little bit about the community

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Speaker 1: that you've built good inside, because it's not just doctor Becky.

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Speaker 1: It's like it's doctor Becky and community of parents who

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Speaker 1: through this platform are sharing what's top of mind. Sharing

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Speaker 1: fears and worries. When we look at this through the

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Speaker 1: lens of technology, you almost kind of have this like

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Speaker 1: magic wand where you kind of know what's top of

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Speaker 1: mind for your community. So what do you see most

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Speaker 1: from parents and children when it comes to their concerns

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Speaker 1: about technology?

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Speaker 2: What are they saying?

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Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, a couple of things when it comes to technology.

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Speaker 3: I think number one, we're hesitant to see or it's

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Speaker 3: just hard to see how kind of large of a

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Speaker 3: role technology plays in our family's life and in our

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Speaker 3: family struggle. So on the surface, let's say, oh, my

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Speaker 3: kid never listens, MIKEI never listens. We're always late, and

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Speaker 3: they don't listen to take a shower, and they don't

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Speaker 3: listen for homework. And it's so easy to just stay

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Speaker 3: at that level of Okay, well why are they listening?

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Speaker 3: Why aren't they listening? But what you might be missing

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Speaker 3: is something at the system level. That's always the level

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Speaker 3: I think, not just about a tip up here, it's

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Speaker 3: actually about a system and kind of resetting the emotional

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Speaker 3: infrastructure down here. Oh, give an example of screens. And

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Speaker 3: again this is not about blame, it's just about understanding

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Speaker 3: the system. Well, if this kid. When this kid, this

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Speaker 3: nine year old gets home from school is on their

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Speaker 3: iPad all the time. Okay, and again there's probably good

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Speaker 3: reasons for that, even technology there, Well, my kid is

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Speaker 3: getting used to coming home and having a ton of

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Speaker 3: dopamine with not a lot of effort. So kind of

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Speaker 3: effortless dopamine is how I think about it. I just

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Speaker 3: can sit here. The excitement comes to me, the winds

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Speaker 3: come to me. By the time you're asking that kid

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Speaker 3: to do homework. Are you joking me? That's like me

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Speaker 3: having I don't know thirty ice cream Sundays and my

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Speaker 3: husband asking me to have dinner. Like I'm not doing

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Speaker 3: dinner now, I do know what I've just done. And

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Speaker 3: so I think one of the first things we see

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Speaker 3: in the community is actually this tendency to just look

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Speaker 3: at the struggles we're having with our kids and not

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Speaker 3: think about the structure that's actually underneath, and how big

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Speaker 3: of a role tech is playing in a structure that's

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Speaker 3: not really setting our kid up for success. And then

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Speaker 3: I think the other thing that comes up all the

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Speaker 3: time is just how unwinnable this feels to parents. It's

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Speaker 3: so unfair that kids have access to so much so

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Speaker 3: much technology that everyone kind of knows isn't good for them,

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Speaker 3: but it's kind of left to parents to regulate individually,

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Speaker 3: which which really feels like kind of an unfair system.

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Speaker 1: And I think so many parents feel like and this

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Speaker 1: is coming from me having like looked at technology for

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Speaker 1: the last fifteen years, being like, oh, can I even

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Speaker 1: prepare myself or prepare my child to grow up in

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Speaker 1: this world that looks so different than the world that

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Speaker 1: I grew up in. I think that there is a

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Speaker 1: feeling of anxiety and a lack of preparation. So what

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Speaker 1: do you say to parents who say, you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: finally wrapping my head around social media and now we

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Speaker 1: have AI and AI companions and all of these new things, Like,

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Speaker 1: what's your advice for parents who are looking at it

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Speaker 1: through that lens?

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Speaker 3: So Number one, my you know, response is just compassion, like, yes,

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Speaker 3: the technology is moving at such a fast pace and

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Speaker 3: we are being asked to try to manage something for

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Speaker 3: our kids that we don't fully understand ourselves. So my

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Speaker 3: first response is right there with you, this is really hard.

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Speaker 3: Number two, I actually think it's our curiosity that's one

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Speaker 3: of our best parental kind of traits and assets, and

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Speaker 3: you actually can't be curious about something you fully understand.

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Speaker 3: So actually not knowing something, being confused by something, being

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Speaker 3: willing to say I don't actually have all the answers,

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Speaker 3: those are necessary conditions to be curious, right, because you know,

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Speaker 3: if I understood everything about your job and you asked

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Speaker 3: me to ask a question, I'd say like, I'm sorry,

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Speaker 3: I don't have any questions. I kind of understand the

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Speaker 3: whole thing. If I don't understand it, I can ask

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Speaker 3: a million questions, which is actually a beautiful thing. And

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Speaker 3: so for the parent listening who's thinking, I don't even

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Speaker 3: understand AI fully myself, but I know it's kind of

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Speaker 3: coming into play with my kids homework or they're going

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Speaker 3: to it for emotional support. Just to say to yourself,

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Speaker 3: not understanding everything is actually going to work more in

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Speaker 3: my favor because now I can ask questions that are

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Speaker 3: really questions and we can figure this out together instead

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Speaker 3: of asking questions that are actually just judgment with the

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Speaker 3: question mark at the end, which never plays well with children.

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Speaker 3: And then number three, I think and this came up

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Speaker 3: for me as soon as you started asking the question

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Speaker 3: when in doubt coming back to the same kind of

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Speaker 3: jobs in my mind, in my language, we always have

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Speaker 3: as a parent is always going to be a useful

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Speaker 3: framework when there's some world change or technology change. And

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Speaker 3: so I always tell parents that we want to do

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Speaker 3: our job well. Every parent, your parent says, I want

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Speaker 3: to do a good job as a parent. But if

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Speaker 3: I said to you, what is your job? Like, what

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Speaker 3: are the things that make up your job? Most parents say,

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Definitely keeping my kid alive, Definitely, keeping your life number one,

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Speaker 1: number one, making sure he's I mean, god, now I

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Speaker 1: feel like, why did I just bring this on myself

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Speaker 1: to try to do?

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Speaker 3: If I can answer, this is no popod. So so

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Speaker 3: to me, there's two things that we would say a

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Speaker 3: good inside we call these family jobs to come back to,

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Speaker 3: which is setting boundaries and then kind of understanding what's

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Speaker 3: happening for your kid through connection validation. So let's say

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Speaker 3: boundaries and understanding. So start with boundaries over and over

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Speaker 3: is apparently set boundaries. It doesn't matter what the technology is.

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Speaker 3: Setting boundaries is always going to be something I do

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Speaker 3: to help keep my kids safe. Boundaries are limits we set.

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Speaker 3: Boundaries are rules we make that tend to have a

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Speaker 3: sense of what's good for someone long term, maybe not

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Speaker 3: just optimizing for you know, short term. Bedtime is a

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Speaker 3: boundary we set, you know, the food they eat is

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Speaker 3: a boundary we set when they get over sleepovers or

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Speaker 3: how many after school activities technology. So I just think

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Speaker 3: that's a powerful framework. No matter what is going on

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Speaker 3: with AI, I'm probably gonna have to set some boundaries, right, okay.

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Speaker 3: And then when you set a boundary with a kid,

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Speaker 3: especially if they're not used to it, they always have

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Speaker 3: the same reaction. And this is so important because we

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Speaker 3: have such fantasies about what's going to happen. Like I

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Speaker 3: think people think, I say to my kids screen time

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Speaker 3: is over, and they go, okay.

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Speaker 1: Well, like your doctor, Becky, of course the envision that's

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Speaker 1: what happened, right.

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Speaker 3: Or they say like, I really appreciate you protecting my

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Speaker 3: long term interests because I'm not able to do that.

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Speaker 3: You're such a sturdy leader. No boundaries are always followed

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Speaker 3: with your kids. Protest all ways, and we somehow keep

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Speaker 3: letting ourselves be surprised by this. But if you know

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Speaker 3: they're going to be followed with protest, and you're someone

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Speaker 3: who likes to do your job, well, it's actually good

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Speaker 3: news because you might think, oh, then I can do

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Speaker 3: the other part of my job. So my kid's going

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Speaker 3: to be upset, let's say about the end of screen time,

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Speaker 3: But then I can do the understanding piece. Oh you

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Speaker 3: wish you could watch another show, You wish you could

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Speaker 3: stay up later. You wish is almost especially when your

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Speaker 3: kids are young, good language just to start using. Right,

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Speaker 3: you wish you could have ice cream for breakfast, whatever

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Speaker 3: it is? Right, But when you understand your kid, you

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Speaker 3: still hold the boundary. Understanding doesn't mean you change the boundary.

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Speaker 3: And the reason I come back to these jobs is

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Speaker 3: if I'm starting to think about AI, I would start

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Speaker 3: to think what are the boundaries around it? And sometimes

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Speaker 3: boundaries aren't just things we say, they're actually things we do.

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Speaker 3: What is my kid of access to for their computer?

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Speaker 3: How often is my kid allowed to be on technology

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Speaker 3: in their own room? If at all, is my kid

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Speaker 3: allowed to have an iPad in their room? What's on

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Speaker 3: their iPad? Are their iPads set up as a child

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Speaker 3: or as an adult. Most of us think our kids

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Speaker 3: iPads are set up with our kids as a kid,

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Speaker 3: So we can control a lot of kids if we

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Speaker 3: didn't do it for them, have worked their way around it,

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Speaker 3: and they're set up as an adult. That's something i'd

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Speaker 3: want to change. That's a boundary. My kid's going to

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Speaker 3: be upset and then I can understand, and so to me,

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Speaker 3: those are jobs I can come back to even as

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Speaker 3: I'm learning a new technology.

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Speaker 1: I love this idea of looking at AI through the

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Speaker 1: lens of boundaries, right, I've always looked at it from it.

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Speaker 1: If I put on my tech ad through the lens

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Speaker 1: of like guardrails, but you're putting it. But on the

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Speaker 1: parenting side, it's like through. It's like one and the same.

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Speaker 1: This is a good time because we had people were

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Speaker 1: obviously very excited that you were going to be on

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Speaker 1: the show, and so we had some folks calling with

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Speaker 1: some questions. So I'm going to play one of them

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Speaker 1: now because I think this is a woman who has

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Speaker 1: a question about chat GPT and her child, and I

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Speaker 1: feel like now is the perfect time to play the tack. Great. Hi.

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Speaker 5: So my daughter, who is twelve, decided to use chat

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Speaker 5: GPT to ask a question about test taking and studying tips.

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Speaker 5: And she was telling me about this casually one day

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Speaker 5: while we were folding laundry, and she said that she

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Speaker 5: got some great tests taking tips, but then chatjpt started

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Speaker 5: to prompt her about her feelings and give feelings advice,

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Speaker 5: and so we pause the conversation and we talked about

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Speaker 5: the different ways that we could use CHATJPT and other

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Speaker 5: AI or technology to help us source information synthesize information,

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Speaker 5: but that we should be particularly wary of and careful

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Speaker 5: about any type of AI tool that is trying to

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Speaker 5: ask questions about feelings or give advice about feelings. We

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Speaker 5: talked a bit about other young people who have used

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Speaker 5: AI tools that have loved done down paths to suicide

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Speaker 5: or other harmful behavior. And I think she's super smart

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Speaker 5: and gets all of this, but I was wondering what

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Speaker 5: more can I do as a parent, What more can

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Speaker 5: parents do as our tweens begin engaging with AI and

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Speaker 5: technology in school and in other settings, and how we

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Speaker 5: can prepare them to discern what is a good use,

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Speaker 5: what's a not so good use, and when to be

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Speaker 5: really skeptical of the types of information that an AI

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Speaker 5: tool is providing to them.

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Speaker 3: This is a fantastic question, I mean, it really is.

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Speaker 3: So I'm going to say the thing that's loudest on

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Speaker 3: my mind and then I'll expand on it. I think

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Speaker 3: probably the most important thing to do with your kid

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Speaker 3: around AI and this is a great question, when is

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Speaker 3: it being used in a way that feels like it's

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Speaker 3: helping me practically getting information? And when am I starting

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Speaker 3: to rely on it for kind of emotional support in

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Speaker 3: a way that might work against me long term than

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Speaker 3: for me. To me, the most important thing you can

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Speaker 3: do as a parent is keep the conversation open. I

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Speaker 3: would actually say this with any tricky topic with our kid.

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Speaker 3: And the reason I think that's so important is it's

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Speaker 3: actually going against what feels really natural in the moment.

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Speaker 3: It's not that we want to end a conversation, but

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Speaker 3: we want to say things like, so do this and

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Speaker 3: not this right. We want to give a lessons right,

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Speaker 3: anytime we give a final lesson, this is the right

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Speaker 3: way to do it. What happens for my kid is

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Speaker 3: they're thinking, okay, So if I ever go to do

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Speaker 3: it in a way that's against this rule, ooh, my

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Speaker 3: parents is gonna be upset with me. Right. I don't

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Speaker 3: really know who I could go talk to if I

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Speaker 3: know one thing about tweens and teens growing up in

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Speaker 3: an ai age. They're gonna have a lot of tricky situations,

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Speaker 3: a lot of messy situations. I said to my kid recently,

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Speaker 3: my fourteen year old, you know, if you were walking

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Speaker 3: to a town and you wanted to get there and

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Speaker 3: all of a sudden there's a shortcut, what do you

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Speaker 3: take it? He was like, yeah, this is a trick question.

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Speaker 3: I was like, yeah, I would too.

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Speaker 2: Good.

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Speaker 3: Okay, You're growing up at a time when there is

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Speaker 3: this shortcut for every academic and emotional thing you ever

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Speaker 3: go through, Like that is so hard because this shortcut

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Speaker 3: isn't like the shortcut to the town. It is a shortcut.

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Speaker 3: But the way it will add up over time is

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Speaker 3: it and things we've talked about it. It's gonna be

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Speaker 3: harder to think about things yourself. It's gonna be harder

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Speaker 3: to tolerate people not getting it right. It's going to,

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Speaker 3: over time, maybe take away from the things you're trying

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Speaker 3: to build to function in the world. But it is

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Speaker 3: a shortcut. I'm not gonna pretend it's not. And so

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Speaker 3: what a hard thing. And so if we use that

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Speaker 3: as a baseline, not my kid is lazy, not my

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Speaker 3: kid is lying, but oh my goodness, to be a

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Speaker 3: teen growing up with such a readily available academic and

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Speaker 3: emotional shortcut that we say isn't good for them, but

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Speaker 3: is a shortcut with an underdeveloped refrontal cortex.

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Speaker 2: Oh.

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Speaker 3: I think the best thing I could do as a

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Speaker 3: parent is just continue to be a home base for

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Speaker 3: my kid to come to, because they are going to

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Speaker 3: need it. I think the cost to not being emotionally

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Speaker 3: connected to your kid has just never been higher because

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Speaker 3: our kids are just going to face endlessly more tricky

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Speaker 3: situations because of all the technology. Now, that doesn't mean

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Speaker 3: quote approval or throwing a I'm not saying you should

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Speaker 3: say to your kid if you ever use chatch Ept

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Speaker 3: to cheat on your paper, let's go out to ice cream. No, okay.

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Speaker 3: And the reason I think that's funny is we tend

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Speaker 3: to think in extremes. Yeah, either I'm saying you can't

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Speaker 3: do that, or I'm throwing them a party. What's in

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Speaker 3: the middle is keeping a conversation open. So I'll just

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Speaker 3: model that because I think modeling is sometimes you know

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Speaker 3: the best way to get it across. Based on what

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Speaker 3: this parent was saying, Wow, so you use chatchipt to

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Speaker 3: help you get some study skills? Is that right, right?

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Speaker 3: Did I get that right? That's just such a powerful

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Speaker 3: thing to say to a kid, Did I get that right?

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Speaker 3: Or to your husband or your wife, whoever it is.

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Speaker 2: I'm like literally just like taking like mental notes.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, thank god, this is taped, like note to Laurie,

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Speaker 1: keep this okay.

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Speaker 3: So actually I'm gonna start again. The number one thing

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Speaker 3: I would say to your kid to start with when

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Speaker 3: they talk to about anything related to AI is start

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Speaker 3: by saying, I'm so glad you're talking to me about this,

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Speaker 3: because there's something much more meta you're communicating to your

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Speaker 3: kid in that moment, which is these types of messy

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Speaker 3: topics are things that can kind of be held in

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Speaker 3: our relationship. That's so powerful. I'm so glad you're talking

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Speaker 3: to me about this. Then just mirror back what they say.

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Speaker 3: So let me see if I got this right. You

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Speaker 3: were talking to chat GBT, you got some study scale

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Speaker 3: tips and that was really helpful. Did I get that right?

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Speaker 3: And kids like yeah? And then something different happened. It

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Speaker 3: kind of veered off into a conversation maybe about how

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Speaker 3: you're feeling. Is that right? Yes? And this is this

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Speaker 3: is probably what i'd say to my kid what was

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Speaker 3: that like? And if I have a kind of people

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Speaker 3: pleasing kid, they'll probably say, oh, it's bad. I know

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Speaker 3: that's wrong. And this is where I think, if we

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Speaker 3: want to play the long game, I'd probably say, look,

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Speaker 3: maybe this sounds weird, but did any part of it

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Speaker 3: kind of feel good? It can feel good when someone

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Speaker 3: just says back to you what they see happening emotionally,

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Speaker 3: because if we don't understand what feels good about something,

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Speaker 3: we're going to always miss out with our kids about

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Speaker 3: the things that draw them to that thing. And if

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Speaker 3: we don't understand what's going to draw them to AI emotionally,

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Speaker 3: and a lot will, then they're gonna have to keep

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Speaker 3: that entire part of their life separate from us and

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Speaker 3: we won't hear about it. And the way I would

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Speaker 3: just keep that conversation open versus closed, is if I

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Speaker 3: was going to close the conversation, and it would feel

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Speaker 3: better to a parent because it feels final. You'd say,

436
00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:16,639
Speaker 3: I'm glad we talked about this, So don't go to

437
00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:19,560
Speaker 3: chat ept for emotional stuff. Do go to logical stuff

438
00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:21,560
Speaker 3: right right? And like I tell myself, oh, I feel

439
00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:23,840
Speaker 3: like really good. As a parent, I just think life

440
00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:25,880
Speaker 3: is a lot messier than that. Like, I just don't

441
00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:29,000
Speaker 3: think at age twelve now, from twelve through whenever, every

442
00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:30,960
Speaker 3: time my kid's going through something emotionally, they're going to

443
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:32,600
Speaker 3: be like I remember that talk I had of my parent.

444
00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:34,600
Speaker 3: They said yes, this, no, this, So that's what I'm

445
00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:37,120
Speaker 3: going to do. That's not how our emotions work. I'd

446
00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:40,040
Speaker 3: rather leave a conversation open like this again, I'm so

447
00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:42,639
Speaker 3: glad you told me that. Look, there's probably going to

448
00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:47,000
Speaker 3: be a moment when something feels emotionally hard, emotionally messy,

449
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:50,600
Speaker 3: and maybe you might think about coming to me, but

450
00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:53,520
Speaker 3: there might be something enticing about just talking to a

451
00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:57,680
Speaker 3: computer who probably is always available, never has their own agenda,

452
00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:01,159
Speaker 3: never gets upset, yeah, and always says something that's like,

453
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:03,640
Speaker 3: oh that feels good. And I just want to tell

454
00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:08,200
Speaker 3: you when that moment comes, when that feels interesting or enticing,

455
00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:10,520
Speaker 3: that's actually a moment i'd love you to tell me about.

456
00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:13,360
Speaker 3: I anticipate the moment's going to come. Maybe it already has.

457
00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:17,439
Speaker 3: I'm not kind of ignorant to that fact. And so

458
00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:19,480
Speaker 3: what I'm really doing is, in some ways I'm opening

459
00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:23,200
Speaker 3: the door for more conversations instead of kind of closing

460
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:24,200
Speaker 3: all those future doors.

461
00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:27,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, God, it's so powerful to hear you talk about it,

462
00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:30,399
Speaker 1: because I look at how the AI is developed, right,

463
00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:33,840
Speaker 1: which you touched on, which is in many ways it's affirmative.

464
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:37,160
Speaker 1: It's always on, it always has an answer, it will

465
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:39,240
Speaker 1: go in the direction that you want it to go in.

466
00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:44,480
Speaker 1: These systems are so incredibly powerful. This is social media

467
00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:49,280
Speaker 1: on steroids beyond. And I think, to hear you say, okay,

468
00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:52,320
Speaker 1: well we need to actually do the thing that's human

469
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:56,120
Speaker 1: to counter the thing that's technology is actually really powerful.

470
00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:57,439
Speaker 1: And then I want to go back to something you

471
00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:02,280
Speaker 1: said about the mess. It is hard to be human.

472
00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:05,760
Speaker 1: Being human is weird, Like being to be vulnerable is

473
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:09,119
Speaker 1: really tough. Intimacy as like I think you said this before.

474
00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:13,080
Speaker 1: Intimacy is like awkward, yes, right, Like humanity is messy,

475
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:16,000
Speaker 1: but it's the mess that makes us find purpose. I

476
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:18,600
Speaker 1: think back to when I was eleven or twelve, which

477
00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:20,480
Speaker 1: were kind of painful years for me to be quiet.

478
00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:22,639
Speaker 1: I mean for many right, So it's like I'm no

479
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:24,320
Speaker 1: special flower here.

480
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:25,680
Speaker 3: I'm not like you know.

481
00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:28,560
Speaker 1: But you know, I think about it growing up a

482
00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:31,159
Speaker 1: kid in Georgia, the only Jewish girl are very Christian

483
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:34,880
Speaker 1: conservative school parents having a really nasty divorce. And I

484
00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:38,399
Speaker 1: think about AI, right, And I used to write my

485
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:39,639
Speaker 1: feelings in a journal.

486
00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:42,080
Speaker 2: I had journals and journals full of how I was feeling.

487
00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:44,720
Speaker 1: And I always try to say this, like to parents

488
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:48,560
Speaker 1: who were trying to understand AI and companionship and why

489
00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:50,879
Speaker 1: would people be talking to these Imagine if the journal

490
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:54,600
Speaker 1: talked back. Imagine if it was always on and always there.

491
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:56,760
Speaker 1: Imagine if the journal played the role of the boyfriend

492
00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,480
Speaker 1: I couldn't get, or the therapist I didn't have access

493
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:02,560
Speaker 1: to at the time, or you know, the parent or

494
00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:06,280
Speaker 1: emulated a parent figure to me. Would that have been

495
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:09,439
Speaker 1: helpful or would that have taken me further from my

496
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:13,040
Speaker 1: reality of feeling this isolation? Because I think that isolation

497
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:17,439
Speaker 1: probably and that feeling and that tension probably made me

498
00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:19,760
Speaker 1: who I am and why I'm sitting here with you, right,

499
00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:22,600
Speaker 1: and had a certain empathy and understanding for people. So

500
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:26,960
Speaker 1: as we look at a future with AI, what happens

501
00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:31,000
Speaker 1: when our children aren't going to be growing up experiencing

502
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:33,320
Speaker 1: the mess of what it means to be human when

503
00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:36,040
Speaker 1: it comes to kind of AI and that loss of friction.

504
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:38,760
Speaker 3: I mean, I think this is in some ways good

505
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:41,639
Speaker 3: Inside's new rais on tetra, like you know, a reason

506
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:45,800
Speaker 3: to exist. I mean it's terrifying, you know. It's the

507
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:47,800
Speaker 3: thing that kind of keeps me up at night. I mean,

508
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:51,560
Speaker 3: we are all drawn to convenience in the short term

509
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:54,040
Speaker 3: over what's good to us in the long term. We

510
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:56,280
Speaker 3: can't help it. As humans, we love the comfort of it.

511
00:24:56,280 --> 00:25:00,359
Speaker 3: It's so comfortable. Our bodies are drawn to that. AI

512
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:02,520
Speaker 3: now is in a place I don't even know where

513
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:05,520
Speaker 3: it's going to be yours now where again, what's there

514
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:08,800
Speaker 3: is immediate comfort and it's really sophisticated comfort.

515
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:10,480
Speaker 2: It's not just a lolly life.

516
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:16,480
Speaker 3: It's anymore. Right. And so you know what I think

517
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:20,640
Speaker 3: the nuance is is so I experienced something messy as

518
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:24,320
Speaker 3: a human, and if I can bring it to a

519
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:29,080
Speaker 3: container that is sycophantic, that just mirrors it all back

520
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 3: to me. Right, always available, never tire never reacts.

521
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:33,240
Speaker 4: You know.

522
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:36,200
Speaker 3: My inkling, if I'm honest is let's say the first

523
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 3: two times making that up number. But that feels nice, okay, right?

524
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:43,080
Speaker 3: I want I wonder if you could have used your

525
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:45,200
Speaker 3: journal to talk back to you a handful of times,

526
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 3: if that would have felt really grounding. You know, I

527
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:50,639
Speaker 3: hear you, Laurie, You're right, this feels hard because it

528
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:53,159
Speaker 3: is hard. You're not crazy. You're going to get through it.

529
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:56,360
Speaker 3: And making that up right, there could be something then.

530
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:59,200
Speaker 3: I think it's about not just diminishing returns, but where

531
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:00,880
Speaker 3: the trajectory is really changes.

532
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:01,359
Speaker 6: You Know.

533
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:03,120
Speaker 3: One of the things I'm always thinking about with kids

534
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 3: and why I care so much about the work we're

535
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:09,479
Speaker 3: doing at Good Inside, is the early years become the

536
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:13,880
Speaker 3: factory settings for all of our teenage and adult years.

537
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:18,159
Speaker 3: The early years matter so much because it forms the

538
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:20,800
Speaker 3: circuitry on our body. What should I expect in the world?

539
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 3: How do things work? What do I expect of myself?

540
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 3: What do I expect of interactions? What can I expect

541
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 3: of other people? What happens when I'm upset? Who do

542
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:30,760
Speaker 3: I go to? What happens then? How quickly do I

543
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:33,679
Speaker 3: go from one hundred to a zero when I'm upset?

544
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:36,600
Speaker 3: What is my expectation of the other person or the

545
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:39,199
Speaker 3: other entity? Do they listen right away? Do I sometimes

546
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 3: have to wait? Do I write this is actually what's happening?

547
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 3: And now fast forward to adulthood. There's two parts of

548
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:48,679
Speaker 3: the road I think that I'm concerned about. One is

549
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 3: will we just be so intolerant of human relationships that

550
00:26:54,840 --> 00:27:01,120
Speaker 3: we proverbially keep ourselves at home? What go talk to someone? Right?

551
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:04,359
Speaker 3: You're right? Human interactions are awkward. You can't make the

552
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:07,760
Speaker 3: awkward un awkward, asking someone out on a date, talking

553
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:11,800
Speaker 3: to someone about something that's hard for you. These are

554
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 3: hard moments and the only way they start to become

555
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 3: easier is you just do them a lot. It's pure

556
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:21,000
Speaker 3: reps in practice. So one part of me thinks, what's

557
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:24,159
Speaker 3: going to be our literal ability if all of our

558
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:28,600
Speaker 3: early circuitry says, when something's hard, it gets easy right away.

559
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:31,879
Speaker 3: When something's hard, someone's always there right away. When you

560
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:34,879
Speaker 3: start talking, immediately it says something back, and it's perfect,

561
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:37,399
Speaker 3: and it's not reactive, and it's never triggered, and it

562
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:40,719
Speaker 3: never asks you to consider another viewpoint. Right? Well, how

563
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 3: am I going to go talk to a friend or

564
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:43,920
Speaker 3: a boyfriend? Right?

565
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:44,080
Speaker 4: So?

566
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 3: Just am I going to be unable? The other thing

567
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 3: scares me? Maybe even more where and I already see

568
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:57,520
Speaker 3: this where if I'm accustomed as a kid, especially to

569
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:03,400
Speaker 3: people fixing my problems, me rescuing me from my disappointment

570
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 3: when someone doesn't forget being awkward. Why, it's a little like,

571
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:13,080
Speaker 3: why are you making me feel this disappointment? Why are

572
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:18,720
Speaker 3: you making me feel this way? Who is responsible for

573
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:22,679
Speaker 3: this frustration? Because I am very accustomed to having frustration,

574
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:27,240
Speaker 3: and my AI companion just taking it down from a

575
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 3: hundred to a zero. So now when I even feel

576
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:33,919
Speaker 3: frustration at a one, it feels like in a thousand

577
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 3: because my body has no coping scale, and that leads

578
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:38,720
Speaker 3: to a lot of rage.

579
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:43,000
Speaker 1: I think what you're saying is you're touching on something

580
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 1: that if I could kind of put on my tech

581
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 1: human lens of saying, oh, guys, we got to look

582
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 1: around the corner. I can't stop thinking about AI companions

583
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 1: and young men, new generation of young men that don't

584
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 1: have to that haven't had to go through the friction

585
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 1: of having a crush on the girl getting rejected. And

586
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 1: we're in a different agent social media where okay, we've

587
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 1: now seen the outcome of us being in these filter

588
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 1: bubbles and having algorithms pushes towards people like us.

589
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 2: We have a harder time having a conversation now.

590
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:16,720
Speaker 1: With each other, right, and people who have different viewpoints

591
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:20,600
Speaker 1: now with artificial intelligence. This is an even more powerful

592
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:24,360
Speaker 1: tool that has a capacity for exactly what you just described,

593
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:26,760
Speaker 1: and I would love There aren't many studies that have

594
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:30,120
Speaker 1: come out on AI companionship and young men, but there's

595
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:32,880
Speaker 1: one that actually hasn't been published yet. But a friend

596
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 1: of mine, she's a computational social scientist who studies human

597
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 1: behavior and digital footprint.

598
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:40,120
Speaker 2: She also happens to be a new mom as well, so.

599
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:44,880
Speaker 1: We talk AI data and little humans too, and she

600
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 1: actually I asked her to send a little voice note

601
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 1: about a study that's coming out and emerging, and it

602
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:52,240
Speaker 1: is so spot on to what you're talking about. So

603
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 1: I'd love to just play that and get your response.

604
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 4: So the signs of a companionship is still in its infancy,

605
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 4: I would say, but there are already some interesting patterns

606
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:04,080
Speaker 4: that we're seeing. So, for example, there's more and more

607
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 4: evidence that, at least in the short term, using AI

608
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:10,960
Speaker 4: companions can actually be quite beneficial for psychological well being

609
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,520
Speaker 4: and loneliness. But what's interesting here is that the long

610
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 4: term impact could be more negative, especially when you look

611
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:23,240
Speaker 4: beyond the individual who's actually using THEAI companion. The Reasons

612
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 4: study by MIKHAILA Rodriguez at the University of Michigan, for instance,

613
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 4: where they got young men to use an AI companion

614
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 4: for seven weeks, and what they found is that these

615
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 4: young men actually felt better after those seven weeks, but

616
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 4: they also became more sexist and aggressive, which you know,

617
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 4: isn't entirely surprising when you consider that these AI companions

618
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:48,760
Speaker 4: are often intentionally designed to be somewhat submissive and to

619
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 4: provide this unconditional validation. So the challenge that I think

620
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 4: we're potentially facing here is that our expectations for what

621
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 4: human to human relationships should look like might shift over time,

622
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 4: and that's really the dynamic that we need to understand better.

623
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:10,440
Speaker 4: Is it that AI companions help us feel less lonely

624
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:13,479
Speaker 4: and more connected in the short term, but then they

625
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 4: actually prevent us from having more meaningful real world relationships,

626
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 4: which could obviously make us even more lonely and miserable

627
00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:22,840
Speaker 4: in the long run.

628
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:26,480
Speaker 3: So my first reaction to that is, I don't think

629
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:29,960
Speaker 3: the companions that the core changed the expectation of human

630
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:34,640
Speaker 3: to human relationships. They inherently change our tolerance for the reality,

631
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 3: the emotional reality of human to human relationships. And so

632
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 3: the short term data that people feel better better is

633
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 3: it could be a tricky thing. You know, nobody says

634
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 3: I want someone to feel worse. But a lot of things,

635
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:51,840
Speaker 3: most things that make us feel the most better in

636
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:54,720
Speaker 3: the short term are the least good for us in

637
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:56,520
Speaker 3: the long term. And I'll tell you what's coming to mind,

638
00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 3: because I'll never forget this session I had with this

639
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 3: you know, I don't know. He's probably like a thirty

640
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:03,480
Speaker 3: five year old guy. He started seeing me. He was

641
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 3: totally sober, but he had a long history of drugs, heroine,

642
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:08,479
Speaker 3: and he you know, it was very hard for him

643
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 3: to tolerate distress in his life, especially relational distress. Really committed to,

644
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:15,040
Speaker 3: you know, a sober life. And I remember just saying

645
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 3: to him, thereby's gonna help you. I just want to

646
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 3: be honest, It's gonna help you and to learn a lot.

647
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 3: What I teach you will never be as good as Heroin.

648
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 3: I just want to say that to you. It's never

649
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:27,400
Speaker 3: like what I have in this room is not heroin.

650
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 3: Like like heroin from what I know of it, even

651
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:32,640
Speaker 3: though I'm not a user, will take you from whatever

652
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:37,160
Speaker 3: you're feeling high, you know, distress to totally numbing that out.

653
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:39,920
Speaker 3: It is gone in a second. What I'm gonna teach

654
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:42,480
Speaker 3: you is when you feel upset, something that feels like

655
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 3: a ten, it's not going to a zero. It'll go

656
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 3: to a nine and three quarters nine and a half.

657
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 3: The best it's gonna get in that whole first day

658
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 3: is an eight. I'm just gonna tell you what I

659
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 3: have to sell.

660
00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 1: Now.

661
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 3: The good parts are you're not gonna have all the

662
00:32:57,160 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 3: negative stuff that was associated. Right, And we kind of

663
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:02,120
Speaker 3: laughed about it, but if we were looking at what

664
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 3: made him feel better, we would say heroine all day long.

665
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:08,640
Speaker 3: Now we know that that's not a good long term solution,

666
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 3: and I think we're talking about the same thing. So

667
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:14,480
Speaker 3: I think when we're even looking at metrics like how

668
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:20,040
Speaker 3: someone feels better is a really important part of a study,

669
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:23,720
Speaker 3: not just the level to which they feel better. Something

670
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 3: that can make you feel from so bad to so good.

671
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 3: The faster it does that, the probably the worse it

672
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 3: is for you long term.

673
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 1: And that is what we're beginning to see with artificial intelligence.

674
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 1: In a nutshell, it's exactly It's so funny because it's

675
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:40,280
Speaker 1: exactly what you explained before. She said that these are

676
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 1: the early results are showing this. I worry about young men,

677
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:47,959
Speaker 1: and I worry a lot about children and artificial intelligence,

678
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:51,520
Speaker 1: and I want to get into it before before we

679
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 1: end about kind of the positives, because I think there's

680
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:56,960
Speaker 1: going to be some really interesting places.

681
00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:57,600
Speaker 3: One.

682
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 1: I love this idea of being able to have you

683
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 1: here and just like play stuff for you, because I

684
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 1: feel like I sometimes go into these dark corners of

685
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:10,960
Speaker 1: the web, and so I would love, you know, to

686
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:14,359
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about deep fakes and bullying with you,

687
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:16,080
Speaker 1: because parents all the time are like, well, you say,

688
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:17,640
Speaker 1: there are all these threats coming, what do we do?

689
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:20,440
Speaker 1: And so now I'm like, okay, doctor Becky's with us.

690
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:22,279
Speaker 1: So now I can say, here's what we can do.

691
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 1: This is a type of threat that's coming into schools.

692
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:25,840
Speaker 2: And so I was wondering.

693
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:28,000
Speaker 1: I know that at Good Inside you have these scripts

694
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:30,600
Speaker 1: for all these scenarios that we face as parents and

695
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:32,879
Speaker 1: how to talk to you know, how parents can talk

696
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 1: about them. So I'd love to kind of like live

697
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 1: collab on a script for these emerging harms when it

698
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:40,960
Speaker 1: comes to AI and our children. So I'm going to

699
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 1: give you a scenario. A mom in Florida receives a

700
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,919
Speaker 1: panic call from her eighth grade daughter during the school day.

701
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 1: She says, I need you to come pick me up

702
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 1: right now. I saw a picture of me naked, but

703
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:54,360
Speaker 1: it's not really me, mom. She then goes on to

704
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 1: learn that two boys at her daughter's middle school had

705
00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:00,359
Speaker 1: exchanged new deep fake photos they made on an app

706
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:03,960
Speaker 1: of more than fifteen classmates and teachers. The image might

707
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:06,720
Speaker 1: not be real, but that impact surely feels real.

708
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:08,719
Speaker 2: So I'm going to play the sound. This is from

709
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:09,120
Speaker 2: her mother.

710
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:13,480
Speaker 7: It was my daughter's face on this body with the

711
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:17,440
Speaker 7: same skin color tone that I got nauseous and I

712
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:22,879
Speaker 7: started crying because my kid had to see it first alone.

713
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:27,959
Speaker 7: And the mentality of some people that, oh, well it's fake. Well,

714
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:32,880
Speaker 7: the technology is so precise that the skin color and

715
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:38,040
Speaker 7: the skin tone matched ninety nine point nine percent at

716
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:41,560
Speaker 7: the time, she was thirteen. And we all know that,

717
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 7: you know, that's a really delicate age.

718
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 3: We've all been through puberty.

719
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:49,240
Speaker 7: I would say ninety five ninety percent of us agree

720
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 7: it sucks. You know, there's the influences that you're a girl,

721
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:55,480
Speaker 7: like how do you look? And you know, then there's

722
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:58,440
Speaker 7: the boys and the hormones, and so this was just

723
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:05,960
Speaker 7: like next love psychologically abuse a psychological abuse because it

724
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:09,920
Speaker 7: wasn't physical, right, and it wasn't verbal. It was an

725
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:13,720
Speaker 7: image right that she had to look at. But man,

726
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:19,080
Speaker 7: it does really affect the victim and their families.

727
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:24,239
Speaker 3: Oh my heart's racing and breaking at the same time.

728
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 3: It's horrible. Before I launched into like how I would respond,

729
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 3: I just always want a caveat, like I'm here in

730
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:33,799
Speaker 3: a studio with you, like if this you know any

731
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 3: of us in these moments, like, yeah, none of us

732
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:38,560
Speaker 3: are doing any of this quote perfectly, but I'll try

733
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:41,080
Speaker 3: to respond just from like a framework. I think the

734
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:42,600
Speaker 3: first thing I'd want to say to my daughter is

735
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:45,640
Speaker 3: I will be right there, like you go pick your

736
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:50,799
Speaker 3: daughter up from that school immediately. Again, I'm going back

737
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:52,680
Speaker 3: to like I'm so glad she called her mom. That

738
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:55,279
Speaker 3: says a lot about the relationship. When the hard things happen,

739
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:57,960
Speaker 3: I can go toward, not away, and I would just

740
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:00,920
Speaker 3: have her in the car and I would like drive

741
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:03,560
Speaker 3: just far enough that like no one else can see

742
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:05,560
Speaker 3: you mean, it's the side of the road, somewhere in private,

743
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:08,280
Speaker 3: and park the car and saying, I am so glad

744
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:10,759
Speaker 3: you called me. I'm here for you, we're gonna get

745
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:13,800
Speaker 3: through this together, and then like shut your mouth. Shut

746
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:16,319
Speaker 3: your mouth. I actually think like that's probably my number

747
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 3: one script for parents these days is stop talking. Stop talking.

748
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:26,200
Speaker 3: And because I'm a visual person, like when your kid's

749
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:29,880
Speaker 3: going through anything hard, they're kind of like this egg

750
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:32,640
Speaker 3: without a shell. I find that like this very evocative image.

751
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:36,000
Speaker 3: They're just that's how they feel. They're spread out all

752
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:38,680
Speaker 3: over and what they need you to be is like

753
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:42,480
Speaker 3: shell energy, but more than that, like a container. And

754
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:44,920
Speaker 3: that's often what we are for our kids. We are

755
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:49,160
Speaker 3: their container so they can have feelings and the awful experience.

756
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 3: There's no advice, Like what advice am I giving to

757
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:54,200
Speaker 3: my kid right now? Like it's all gonna be empty,

758
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 3: and right now my kid is just probably hollowed out

759
00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 3: there this egg without a shell, what's the crack in

760
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:02,160
Speaker 3: the shell? Like this just they were just completely violated.

761
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 3: The way they thought the world works was just violated

762
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:06,719
Speaker 3: in front of them, because it's like that's not even me,

763
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 3: by the way, and now it's all over and people

764
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:11,120
Speaker 3: think it's me, and it's just such a violation of

765
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 3: expectations that your kid's gonna have, yeah, really big reaction

766
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:18,520
Speaker 3: and feelings and this is not logical. It's not illogical.

767
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:22,280
Speaker 3: People always say that emotions. Just because emotions aren't logical,

768
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:26,280
Speaker 3: that doesn't mean they're illogical. Like Mandarin is not ill English,

769
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:29,279
Speaker 3: it's just not English. There are two different systems, and

770
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 3: when your kid is in a big emotional state, that's

771
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:33,520
Speaker 3: what you are. You are a container, so your words

772
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:36,439
Speaker 3: serve to establish that container. I'm so glad you called

773
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:38,839
Speaker 3: I am right here. We are going to get through

774
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:41,120
Speaker 3: this together. That's kind of like I am that edge.

775
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:43,400
Speaker 3: And then I'm just gonna let my kid freaking collapse

776
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:46,040
Speaker 3: into me and say all the things and get it

777
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:48,520
Speaker 3: all out, and I'm gonna hug her and I'm gonna

778
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:50,479
Speaker 3: be there. I'm gonna stop myself from saying I'm calling

779
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:52,919
Speaker 3: the school right away. Maybe I am later, but right

780
00:38:52,960 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 3: now my kid needs me to just really be with her.

781
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:10,200
Speaker 1: It's so interesting because all of these scenarios that I

782
00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:13,120
Speaker 1: say to you, you have the most human advice for

783
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:16,920
Speaker 1: And it's like me, as like a technology person, I'm like,

784
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:19,839
Speaker 1: oh yeah, like people need to know the images aren't real,

785
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:22,279
Speaker 1: but the impact is real. And oh, by the way,

786
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:25,040
Speaker 1: when it comes to artificial intelligence, these are they mirror you,

787
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:27,400
Speaker 1: and I almost want to explain this from a product

788
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:31,319
Speaker 1: standpoint to help validate the child's feelings. And what I

789
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:34,399
Speaker 1: love is that I am totally one hundred percent wrong

790
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 1: here and hearing you talk about it, you're like, you

791
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:41,839
Speaker 1: deal with these new tech threats with the most important thing,

792
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:44,000
Speaker 1: which is the container that makes us human.

793
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:46,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, and look, I think, you know, I think that

794
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:48,319
Speaker 3: I just have to say this because it's coming up

795
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:51,600
Speaker 3: more and more. You're like, I'm just gonna say it

796
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 3: head on, Doctor Pecky. Do you ever worry that all

797
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:58,120
Speaker 3: this parenting advice makes people just more anxious? This is

798
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:00,920
Speaker 3: like my favorite question and min number one pet peeve.

799
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 3: Having a manager at work is helpful. Having fifty managers

800
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:07,279
Speaker 3: at work would be very overwhelming. We live in a

801
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:12,799
Speaker 3: world of fifty million parenting advice managers, right, And I

802
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:14,360
Speaker 3: think the thing I just want to establish about what

803
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:15,840
Speaker 3: I do and what we do a good inside. And

804
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:17,960
Speaker 3: it is so important to make sure people know this

805
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:22,160
Speaker 3: is not advice, it's not tips. It's actually the same foundations.

806
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:24,920
Speaker 3: There's like nine foundations. We teach people how to apply

807
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:26,640
Speaker 3: it to a million things. So when I hear deep

808
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:29,880
Speaker 3: fakes honestly, it's it's this might sound weird, it's no

809
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:31,719
Speaker 3: different than when your kid doesn't make the soccer team.

810
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:34,560
Speaker 3: I'm not saying the situation is no different, but actually,

811
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:37,239
Speaker 3: if we're always trying to learn a new system, when

812
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:41,480
Speaker 3: every parenting situation changes, we are just adding our chaos

813
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:43,480
Speaker 3: to our kids. Like, no one does that at work.

814
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:45,320
Speaker 3: When you're in a job in your senior you're like,

815
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:47,200
Speaker 3: hold on, let me come back to what I know.

816
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:49,000
Speaker 3: How do I tend to work through projects? You're not

817
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:52,240
Speaker 3: learning on the job every hour. And so the reason

818
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:55,280
Speaker 3: I think it sounds human is actually what we're saying,

819
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:57,799
Speaker 3: at least in the moment, has nothing to do with

820
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:00,680
Speaker 3: deep fakes. It has to do with something violated happening.

821
00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:03,239
Speaker 3: My kid didn't think this was going to happen. It

822
00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:06,400
Speaker 3: was a huge surprise. It's awful. It's exposing when you

823
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:10,680
Speaker 3: don't want to. That's actually probably in your body, a

824
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:12,560
Speaker 3: more extreme version of what happens when a kid thinks

825
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:14,200
Speaker 3: are getting the lead in the play at age five

826
00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:16,000
Speaker 3: and they go to the list and their name's not there.

827
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:17,960
Speaker 3: And if we can see it through that lens, you're right,

828
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 3: not only is it human, but it actually feels a

829
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:23,040
Speaker 3: little easier. You're like, oh, I kind of did that

830
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 3: when my kid was five for the play, and then

831
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:27,359
Speaker 3: when my kid was eight for soccer, and I guess

832
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:29,000
Speaker 3: now I'm doing it with the deep fake thing. But

833
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:31,440
Speaker 3: kind of my approach is remarkably consistent.

834
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:33,719
Speaker 1: I actually feel like it's the most comforting thing I've

835
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:37,040
Speaker 1: heard in a long time of looking through these threats,

836
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:39,920
Speaker 1: kind of these like cutting edge threats of AI companions

837
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:42,920
Speaker 1: and deep fakes. Like just this idea that like, oh,

838
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:45,960
Speaker 1: this thing we can apply is like really the scaffolding

839
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:48,160
Speaker 1: of what it's scaffolding, you know, And it's such a

840
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:51,400
Speaker 1: beautiful sentiment. I think a lot of parents would breathe

841
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:53,640
Speaker 1: a little bit of a sigh of relief. I know,

842
00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:55,279
Speaker 1: we kind of we have to ensue, and I really

843
00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:57,800
Speaker 1: want to get to some of the positives about artificial

844
00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:01,600
Speaker 1: intelligence because I think we're similar and that we both

845
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:05,040
Speaker 1: can look at the concerns around technology. But also you

846
00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:09,279
Speaker 1: have Gigi, which is like an AI app modeled after you, right,

847
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:12,239
Speaker 1: and so much of the advice because I genuinely believe

848
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:15,239
Speaker 1: AI can be so powerful. So I'm going to play

849
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:19,200
Speaker 1: one last sound from a friend of mine about AI

850
00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:23,520
Speaker 1: and parenting, and so we can hopefully end on a

851
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:26,359
Speaker 1: note of how we can actually see promise in this.

852
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:29,920
Speaker 6: Hi, doctor Becky, I am so excited that I get

853
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:32,640
Speaker 6: to ask you this question. I'm very grateful that my

854
00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:36,040
Speaker 6: dear friend Laurie provided me with this opportunity. I admire

855
00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:38,120
Speaker 6: the work that you do, and to be quite honest,

856
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:40,879
Speaker 6: my therapist and I reference you frequently when we are

857
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:44,120
Speaker 6: discussing motherhood and parenting. I know that there is a

858
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:47,000
Speaker 6: lot of scary stuff out there for children in regards

859
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:50,239
Speaker 6: to technology and AI, but my question comes from looking

860
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 6: at the positive side of it. I am a stay

861
00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:54,640
Speaker 6: at home mom and being a good mother is one

862
00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:57,000
Speaker 6: of the most important things in my life, so I'm

863
00:42:57,040 --> 00:42:59,520
Speaker 6: always looking to grow in it. How do you see

864
00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:03,280
Speaker 6: or technology and AI as a tool to better myself

865
00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:05,760
Speaker 6: as a mother to my child and for that matter,

866
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:08,960
Speaker 6: as a family that includes my husband, daughter, and myself

867
00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:12,839
Speaker 6: and obviously our dog too. Thank you so much love

868
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:14,240
Speaker 6: from Atlanta from Jackie.

869
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:19,600
Speaker 3: Look, I actually think this is similar to how we

870
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:21,680
Speaker 3: were talking about the other question with AI. When is

871
00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:24,000
Speaker 3: it helpful? When are their diminishing returns? And when does

872
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:26,040
Speaker 3: something start to work more against you? Than for you.

873
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:28,840
Speaker 3: So AI is great. You have a quick question, what

874
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:30,719
Speaker 3: do I say when my kid gets off the bus

875
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:34,480
Speaker 3: and this thing happens? Right, whether you go to CHATCHYBT

876
00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:37,359
Speaker 3: or Claude or you're in our app like you know,

877
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:40,120
Speaker 3: and with our AI, you're gonna get a helpful answer,

878
00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:43,479
Speaker 3: and that can be so grounding. You're kind of running around,

879
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:45,000
Speaker 3: You're like, wait, this thing just helped me have this

880
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:48,759
Speaker 3: moment when I felt like a million bucks right to me.

881
00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:51,520
Speaker 3: The image I think about a lot with parenting. This

882
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:53,600
Speaker 3: to me is when it stops being helpful and starts

883
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:55,759
Speaker 3: being harmful is we're living in this world now with

884
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:59,279
Speaker 3: like a million tips or a million CHATCHYBT answers, and

885
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:03,960
Speaker 3: I picture them all flags. Flags don't get you far

886
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 3: if you don't have a ground to put them in.

887
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:10,960
Speaker 3: You just have a lot of flags. And you're like,

888
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:13,240
Speaker 3: I'm gonna try this thing, and my kid's not sleeping,

889
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:15,319
Speaker 3: so I'm gonna say this thing, and I'm gonna do

890
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:18,000
Speaker 3: this thing, and you don't, like, you don't have a why,

891
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:22,640
Speaker 3: You don't actually understand if it helps, why it helped. Again,

892
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:24,399
Speaker 3: you don't have a way of saying, I know why

893
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:26,600
Speaker 3: this helped, and this is actually something I can repeat

894
00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:29,640
Speaker 3: as my kid's life changes, and so I can become

895
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:33,719
Speaker 3: more and more dependent on an AI, which actually can

896
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:35,800
Speaker 3: lead me not in one moment, but as a pattern

897
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:38,360
Speaker 3: of moment. Not way to feel frantic, but to me,

898
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:41,239
Speaker 3: this is the worst part of parenting. I just feel

899
00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:44,120
Speaker 3: like I've lost myself. We have all built up so

900
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:47,000
Speaker 3: much from an adaptive place in our childhood, but it's

901
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:49,080
Speaker 3: a lot of stuff in our adulthood that makes us

902
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:53,080
Speaker 3: doubt ourselves, that makes us think, oh, someone else knows better, right.

903
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:55,720
Speaker 3: I actually think so much of parenthood is like finding

904
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:59,160
Speaker 3: the right guide to like kind of clear that out

905
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:03,239
Speaker 3: and return to yourself where you're not just going to

906
00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:05,160
Speaker 3: a chat all the time saying what do I do?

907
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:08,200
Speaker 3: When we're able to kind of say in a moment, okay,

908
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:11,359
Speaker 3: I kind of understand what's going on, right, or if

909
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:13,600
Speaker 3: you are even going, it's to help you think through

910
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:17,000
Speaker 3: how to understand something, which is almost the opposite of

911
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:19,719
Speaker 3: just collecting hundreds of flags and not having the ground

912
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:21,920
Speaker 3: to plant them in. And so I guess my barometer

913
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:23,719
Speaker 3: and what we always talk about a good inside is

914
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:26,000
Speaker 3: I'm just gonna say this here I've been talking about

915
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:27,560
Speaker 3: this term a lot, but I've never said it out

916
00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:31,400
Speaker 3: loud to anyone else. Now's the time, Okay, is called MVA.

917
00:45:31,719 --> 00:45:34,960
Speaker 3: Minimum viable advice. Uh huh, that's what we give people.

918
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:37,759
Speaker 3: Everyone needs a little bit of advice or information. But

919
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:40,399
Speaker 3: most of what's happening in a parenting situation that's hard

920
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:44,800
Speaker 3: isn't the moment. It's our fear about what the moment means.

921
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:47,280
Speaker 3: It's the way we take a moment and fast forward

922
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:49,879
Speaker 3: our kid's life twenty years. And that's actually what we're

923
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:53,799
Speaker 3: thinking about. And it's why a typical chat doesn't even

924
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:56,080
Speaker 3: make us feel better over time, because we're not actually

925
00:45:56,120 --> 00:45:57,919
Speaker 3: looking for the thing to do in the moment. We're

926
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:00,640
Speaker 3: actually scared of what it means. We're scared of the

927
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:02,759
Speaker 3: story we're telling ourselves about what it means, and we're

928
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:04,360
Speaker 3: scared about who our kid is going to be in

929
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:06,600
Speaker 3: twenty years. And someone just saying what to say when

930
00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:08,360
Speaker 3: your kids get off the bus, we're like, Okay, I

931
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:10,799
Speaker 3: did that, but why because that's not actually the core thing.

932
00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:13,239
Speaker 3: So when I think about minimum viable advice, sure we

933
00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:16,120
Speaker 3: all need a little guidance here there, but actually we

934
00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 3: need to better understand what is really happening. What are

935
00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:20,879
Speaker 3: my frameworks like, what's actually going on for my kid?

936
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:23,040
Speaker 3: What am I actually worried about? How can I understand that?

937
00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:26,520
Speaker 3: When we unpack that, that's what helps us feel more

938
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:29,360
Speaker 3: grounded and steadier. And I think the ultimate measure in

939
00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:32,319
Speaker 3: parenting is saying I can handle anything that comes my way.

940
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:34,560
Speaker 3: I'm not scared of the grocery store meltdown. I'm not

941
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:36,799
Speaker 3: scared of the lie. I'm not scared of the time

942
00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:38,879
Speaker 3: my kid says I'm not listening to anymore. I'm too big.

943
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:40,640
Speaker 3: I don't care. You know, I don't have to. I

944
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:43,440
Speaker 3: know what those moments are about. That's the biggest flex

945
00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:45,320
Speaker 3: is not that everything is smooth and not that you

946
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:48,200
Speaker 3: always have the answer, but you're not actually scared of

947
00:46:48,239 --> 00:46:51,120
Speaker 3: the thing around the corner. And none of that will

948
00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:53,439
Speaker 3: come from a lot of tips. I actually think tip

949
00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:56,120
Speaker 3: after tip after tip without a foundation probably gets this

950
00:46:56,239 --> 00:46:58,239
Speaker 3: further away from that, And so to me, that's the

951
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:00,759
Speaker 3: way I would kind of use a barameter about whether

952
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:02,160
Speaker 3: something is helpful long term.

953
00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:04,520
Speaker 1: First of all, I love hearing how you talk about

954
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:08,920
Speaker 1: like MVA. You're speaking tech terms in myg but in

955
00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:12,480
Speaker 1: apparenting scaffolding, which I just love you talked about like foundation.

956
00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:14,359
Speaker 2: I know we have to end.

957
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:16,600
Speaker 1: I just want to say so much of launching the show,

958
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:18,960
Speaker 1: which is about tech in humans. I've spent my career

959
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:22,720
Speaker 1: interviewing folks in Silicon Valley and I am so excited

960
00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:26,600
Speaker 1: to launch this by talking to someone about humanity through

961
00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:27,400
Speaker 1: the lens of tech.

962
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:28,960
Speaker 2: That's just always kind of been the goal.

963
00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:31,919
Speaker 1: And I think our children, in the world they grow

964
00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:33,520
Speaker 1: up in with AI is going to be one of

965
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:37,719
Speaker 1: the most important questions that we answer. And so my

966
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:40,960
Speaker 1: last question to you, I know it's personal to me.

967
00:47:41,160 --> 00:47:42,719
Speaker 1: I've always just kind of wanted to make the world

968
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:45,680
Speaker 1: feel a little bit less alone, and I feel like you.

969
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:48,440
Speaker 1: I feel that from you as well. But why is

970
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:49,600
Speaker 1: this mission personal to you?

971
00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:52,839
Speaker 3: I mean, I guess at the end of the day,

972
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:56,000
Speaker 3: the world is is just a collection of humans doing

973
00:47:56,040 --> 00:47:59,080
Speaker 3: the best they can with the resources they have available

974
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:04,040
Speaker 3: and as impacted by the health of the connections and

975
00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:08,120
Speaker 3: relationships they have. And you know, I'm probably a short

976
00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:12,319
Speaker 3: term pessimist and long term optimist and think that as

977
00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:15,560
Speaker 3: parents have more resources, as parents return to themselves, as

978
00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:17,239
Speaker 3: we can show up for our kids in a way

979
00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:20,240
Speaker 3: we're proud of more often and repair the other times.

980
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:26,399
Speaker 3: That's that's the only way that we can actually leave

981
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:29,480
Speaker 3: the next generation in a better place than ours, and

982
00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:30,640
Speaker 3: nothing better more than that.

983
00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:33,080
Speaker 2: Amazing, great, Thank you so much.

984
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:38,000
Speaker 1: Mostly Human is a production of iHeart Podcasts and mostly

985
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:42,280
Speaker 1: human Media. It's produced and edited by Lori Siegel, Lauren Hanson,

986
00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:45,760
Speaker 1: and Nicole Bouchet. Sound design and mixing by Derek Clements.

987
00:48:46,080 --> 00:48:49,480
Speaker 1: Special thanks to Mark Weinhaus. Find us on all socials

988
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:52,560
Speaker 1: at mostly human Media. You can also watch mostly Human

989
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:54,879
Speaker 1: on our YouTube page. If you want to get in touch,

990
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:58,319
Speaker 1: email comments at mostly human dot com. And if you

991
00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:01,040
Speaker 1: like what you hear, please raise, interview the show, and

992
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:01,960
Speaker 1: share it with your friends.

993
00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:02,759
Speaker 2: See you next week.