WEBVTT - Winky Fairorth 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:08.120 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast. 0:00:09.320 --> 0:00:15.200 My guest today is CEO of Tate Towers, Winky Winky. 0:00:15.280 --> 0:00:17.759 Good to have you here. A pleasure to be here. Okay, 0:00:17.840 --> 0:00:20.960 Now this is behind the scenes stuff and most people, 0:00:20.960 --> 0:00:24.000 so we gotta start at ground zero. What exactly is 0:00:24.079 --> 0:00:27.280 Tate Towers. Well, if you really want to start at 0:00:27.280 --> 0:00:30.840 ground zero, uh, it actually goes before Tate Towers. It 0:00:30.880 --> 0:00:34.760 would go to Michael Tate. And so Michael Tate his 0:00:34.840 --> 0:00:38.360 Australian and probably seventy three years old ish by now, 0:00:38.400 --> 0:00:40.239 and he'd be pissed at me to tell the world that. 0:00:40.280 --> 0:00:42.639 But is he involved in the business with already know, sir. 0:00:43.600 --> 0:00:45.920 But he loves going there and he loves building ship 0:00:45.960 --> 0:00:48.800 for his bathroom or something like that. And his name 0:00:48.880 --> 0:00:50.760 is still on the sign. And you know it was 0:00:51.080 --> 0:00:54.800 part of my doing was to create this legacy for 0:00:54.840 --> 0:00:58.000 this man who he goes back. So he started in Australia, 0:00:58.080 --> 0:01:00.520 he immigrated to England in the city D's and he 0:01:00.600 --> 0:01:04.160 was working at the speakeasies in London and fell upon 0:01:04.280 --> 0:01:08.960 Yes and became you know, he answered the magical question 0:01:09.040 --> 0:01:11.479 in the industry of can you drive the van which 0:01:11.560 --> 0:01:14.200 was resounding yes, and he became the fifth member of 0:01:14.200 --> 0:01:19.920 the Let's just speak clear the van right, like is 0:01:19.959 --> 0:01:22.759 gonna take us to the next game? Like a raised 0:01:22.760 --> 0:01:25.200 his an and said I'll do it. So he was 0:01:25.800 --> 0:01:28.679 interested in lighting at the time. He was, you know, 0:01:28.840 --> 0:01:32.080 rummaging the streets of London with Richard Hartman, stealing park 0:01:32.120 --> 0:01:35.319 hands off the street and building them in their apartment together. 0:01:35.920 --> 0:01:39.600 And his passion was lighting. And so when he joined 0:01:39.600 --> 0:01:41.480 with Yes, he did all their lights. And it was 0:01:41.560 --> 0:01:44.400 his idea to put the group in the round in eight, 0:01:44.400 --> 0:01:47.680 which changed the game. It totally changed the game, and 0:01:47.680 --> 0:01:50.160 in what way to change the game several ways. So 0:01:50.360 --> 0:01:52.840 number one, you're now selling every ticket in the arena. 0:01:52.880 --> 0:01:55.000 And when you think about what the arenas were like then, 0:01:55.240 --> 0:01:57.320 it ain't what they're like now, right. You weren't hanging 0:01:57.320 --> 0:02:00.520 a million pounds from the ceiling. You're ground stacking. You 0:02:00.520 --> 0:02:02.560 could barely get a lighting rig. And and you know, 0:02:02.600 --> 0:02:05.200 those buildings weren't built for sports back then. Who knows 0:02:05.240 --> 0:02:09.000 what the hell they were built for. So in addition 0:02:09.120 --> 0:02:13.359 to selling the tickets, he had to solve the production requirements. 0:02:13.400 --> 0:02:15.200 So what is different in playing in the round the 0:02:15.280 --> 0:02:17.560 sounds quite different. Well, he just happened to have a 0:02:17.560 --> 0:02:20.880 best friend named Roy Claire who was doing sound for Yes, 0:02:21.080 --> 0:02:23.799 who happened to be the biggest sound company in the 0:02:23.840 --> 0:02:27.519 world at the time, and they figured it out, right, 0:02:27.680 --> 0:02:29.240 how do you light a show in the round? It's 0:02:29.280 --> 0:02:31.639 completely different. You don't have a backdrop to light. You're 0:02:31.680 --> 0:02:36.240 now kind of the rig becomes an iconic kind of 0:02:36.760 --> 0:02:39.200 structure that's almost like a sculpture. And if you go 0:02:39.280 --> 0:02:41.079 back and look at Yes in the round, it was 0:02:41.120 --> 0:02:44.480 a big star that was beautiful to look at. And 0:02:44.520 --> 0:02:46.320 then you got to teach your band to play in 0:02:46.320 --> 0:02:49.079 the round because they don't know how to do that. 0:02:49.240 --> 0:02:53.000 And so Michael overcame all those obstacles and with great success, 0:02:53.800 --> 0:02:57.600 and because of his relationship with Claire Brothers at the time, 0:02:58.080 --> 0:03:00.480 he was getting ready to be boot it out of 0:03:00.480 --> 0:03:03.520 England and he came to Lititz, Pennsylvania, which is where 0:03:03.639 --> 0:03:06.440 Claire Brothers started. They were both Roy and Jean were 0:03:06.480 --> 0:03:12.160 born in in Lititz, Pennsylvania, and we were in or 0:03:12.200 --> 0:03:17.720 maybe geographically challenge were it is in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, five 0:03:17.760 --> 0:03:20.239 miles north of the city and lancas or sixty miles 0:03:20.240 --> 0:03:24.520 outside of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, Dutch Country. Total like, we'll have 0:03:24.600 --> 0:03:28.639 Amish buggies strapped to our building at any given moment, 0:03:28.760 --> 0:03:31.480 on any given day, which is a great contrast of 0:03:31.600 --> 0:03:33.480 rock and roll, right, Like, it's a great you know, 0:03:33.560 --> 0:03:35.600 you could be building Ozzy Osbourne at the time and 0:03:35.640 --> 0:03:38.240 you'll have an Amish buggy at your front door. It's 0:03:38.280 --> 0:03:41.400 pretty pretty wild. And so he started a shop there 0:03:41.440 --> 0:03:44.640 and as soon as he came to America, Barry Manilow 0:03:44.640 --> 0:03:46.680 wanted to play in the round, Diana Ross wanted to 0:03:46.680 --> 0:03:48.880 play in the round. Kenny Rogers played in the round. 0:03:48.920 --> 0:03:51.920 So he was that he specialized in the round only 0:03:51.960 --> 0:03:54.840 because that's what he succeeded in and people wanted to 0:03:54.880 --> 0:03:57.520 follow suit. He was a lighting guy, right and so 0:03:57.560 --> 0:04:01.480 if you go back, I started in were and today 0:04:01.520 --> 0:04:04.800 today maybe the day that is the thirty fifth anniversary, 0:04:04.800 --> 0:04:06.800 I'm not sure what the day was, but it was 0:04:06.840 --> 0:04:08.920 the first two weeks of April, so I have no idea, 0:04:09.000 --> 0:04:10.920 but it's thirty five years to the day that I 0:04:10.960 --> 0:04:13.320 walked in that door. And at the time we were 0:04:13.320 --> 0:04:15.920 a lighting company. But we were a lighting company and 0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:18.080 no fucking idea what we were doing, Like let's let's 0:04:18.120 --> 0:04:21.799 slow down a little bit. So when he got into lighting, 0:04:22.640 --> 0:04:25.440 were was there, like Claire was the big sound company, 0:04:25.560 --> 0:04:28.800 and there was Shoko there. Well, there was Shoko which 0:04:28.880 --> 0:04:32.680 was just getting to They were just starting right like 0:04:32.760 --> 0:04:35.279 the very Lights that went out with Genesis at the time. 0:04:35.480 --> 0:04:37.839 We're just happening right in. The way I tell the 0:04:37.839 --> 0:04:41.120 story is Shoco was probably spending more on research and 0:04:41.160 --> 0:04:44.120 development at that time than we were grossing. Right. We 0:04:44.279 --> 0:04:47.919 knew there was going to be a problem, and it 0:04:48.040 --> 0:04:50.880 was the staging that was consistently bailing us out. Because 0:04:50.960 --> 0:04:53.280 to be a lighting company at that time, you would 0:04:53.320 --> 0:04:55.400 go to the bank, you'd borrow a bunch of money, 0:04:55.680 --> 0:04:58.880 you'd build your system, you'd hire the guys who were 0:04:59.000 --> 0:05:02.240 freelance guy, and you would hope to God that the 0:05:02.279 --> 0:05:05.080 band would pay for the equipment before it became obsolete. 0:05:05.800 --> 0:05:08.479 But it never did. Right, Well, that would that would 0:05:08.720 --> 0:05:12.000 me that you're running it in the red. It was happening, 0:05:12.040 --> 0:05:15.520 but the technology was innovating so fast and being driven 0:05:15.600 --> 0:05:18.840 mostly by very Light. But we had some great clients 0:05:18.880 --> 0:05:22.240 at the time. We had YouTube, we had Kenny Rogers, 0:05:22.240 --> 0:05:26.120 so we had something just because not everybody sophisticated. Go on, 0:05:26.680 --> 0:05:29.120 tell them what a very light is. That was the 0:05:29.160 --> 0:05:32.000 first moving light with a dichroic filter that could change 0:05:32.040 --> 0:05:35.080 color at any moment. And I think it was Genesis. 0:05:35.120 --> 0:05:39.120 I don't remember the exact tour. Yeah, they had four 0:05:39.200 --> 0:05:41.640 hundred of them. He was the most mind blowing thing 0:05:41.680 --> 0:05:44.840 you've ever seen. And from that moment on, it was 0:05:44.880 --> 0:05:48.000 a game change. Okay to the degree you know what 0:05:48.040 --> 0:05:53.239 was going on before before? Yes, in the round, Um, well, 0:05:53.279 --> 0:05:56.080 there was there was a ton of companies doing this. 0:05:56.160 --> 0:05:58.159 You know, there was t TF, there was Bob C. 0:05:58.360 --> 0:06:01.800 There was a bunch of company is that we're doing it, 0:06:02.000 --> 0:06:05.640 but nobody was doing it on the level that Genesis 0:06:05.640 --> 0:06:07.480 and Choko were doing it. Nobody was doing it on 0:06:07.520 --> 0:06:09.160 the level that Claire brothers were doing it. And so 0:06:09.200 --> 0:06:11.599 we had something to aspire to, right, We had something. 0:06:11.640 --> 0:06:15.080 We we fell into a niche that we could specialize in, 0:06:15.200 --> 0:06:18.400 and that was building stages. Nobody, you know, stages weren't 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:22.960 stages then, they were drum risers. They were risers. And Okay, 0:06:23.000 --> 0:06:25.880 when you say stage, you mean the stage, the lights 0:06:25.920 --> 0:06:29.320 and everything. No, I mean the set. I mean the set. 0:06:29.720 --> 0:06:32.880 It's it's the performance environment. For the artists, it's their 0:06:32.920 --> 0:06:37.800 living room. Lights are a commodity there rented. Video is 0:06:37.839 --> 0:06:40.640 now a commodity, it's rented. Sound is now a commodity. 0:06:40.640 --> 0:06:44.040 It's rented. But when you get to staging, that's very 0:06:44.160 --> 0:06:46.320 customed to the artist and it has to go in 0:06:46.400 --> 0:06:49.400 and out just as fast as everything else does. So 0:06:49.520 --> 0:06:52.400 you have to kind of commoditize it in a very 0:06:52.560 --> 0:06:55.920 custom way so that it works for everybody. And we 0:06:57.000 --> 0:07:00.840 consistently spent time reinvesting in our company. Like so when 0:07:00.839 --> 0:07:03.200 a show arrives in the morning, which most people have 0:07:03.320 --> 0:07:05.960 no idea, right, so just take any show these days, 0:07:06.000 --> 0:07:08.680 that's twenty trucks of equipment. It gets to the gig 0:07:08.720 --> 0:07:11.320 at seven o'clock in the morning, right on the day 0:07:11.320 --> 0:07:14.160 of the show. You've got until sound check to put 0:07:14.200 --> 0:07:17.160 it together. And ideally, for what we do, we put 0:07:17.160 --> 0:07:20.640 it together with no fasteners and no tools because guess 0:07:20.640 --> 0:07:23.280 what you lose at the gig, right, fasteners and tools. 0:07:25.200 --> 0:07:28.440 So what holds it together? If there's intuitive connections which 0:07:28.440 --> 0:07:31.560 are very proprietary and very innovative and something that we 0:07:31.640 --> 0:07:34.960 have collected in our arsenal for thirty forty years, what 0:07:35.120 --> 0:07:39.240 is what would that be it would be a conical 0:07:39.360 --> 0:07:42.880 connector of some type that is very intuitive and very 0:07:42.920 --> 0:07:46.520 safe and might be spring loaded, might have a clip 0:07:46.600 --> 0:07:48.680 on it. You know, there's all kinds of ways that 0:07:48.760 --> 0:07:52.800 you can make clever connections these days with innovation and 0:07:52.840 --> 0:07:57.920 technology and machining. Okay, let's go back to the narrative film. Okay, 0:07:58.160 --> 0:08:01.600 so you're doing everybody in the round, and then what's 0:08:01.640 --> 0:08:04.320 the next step. Next step is selling the lighting company 0:08:04.360 --> 0:08:08.240 in nineteen eight seven to Nock Turn Herbie and Journey 0:08:08.400 --> 0:08:11.520 for argument's sake, because they were also very forward thinking 0:08:12.080 --> 0:08:15.200 in the fact that hey, we're a huge band, We're 0:08:15.200 --> 0:08:16.920 going to do this a lot. I don't we in 0:08:16.920 --> 0:08:19.720 our own production company, and they did it right, and 0:08:20.240 --> 0:08:22.520 we were pretty attractive to them. At the time. We 0:08:22.600 --> 0:08:25.520 had a bunch of clients. Bruce Springsteen was just going 0:08:25.560 --> 0:08:29.480 out um with what the hell was the name of 0:08:29.520 --> 0:08:32.680 the tour? No I was born in the USA. I 0:08:32.679 --> 0:08:35.880 believe that was like his big commercial break, and that 0:08:35.960 --> 0:08:40.680 was the Stadium Giant Stadium tour. We had some crazy Okay, 0:08:40.720 --> 0:08:43.600 you're talking about YouTube, you talk about the very lights 0:08:43.640 --> 0:08:48.720 are basically in that break from eight to yourself to Herbie, 0:08:49.320 --> 0:08:53.600 what services is Tap providing lighting and staging and we're 0:08:53.600 --> 0:08:56.400 losing money on the lighting and we're we're breaking even 0:08:56.400 --> 0:08:58.120 on the staging to pay for the lighting. So we're 0:08:58.160 --> 0:09:01.559 thinking we're doing well or not? Okay, just to be clear, 0:09:02.040 --> 0:09:05.920 since you start within the round, how does it evolve 0:09:06.040 --> 0:09:12.360 to staging in general? Uh? I don't understand that question. 0:09:12.400 --> 0:09:14.760 Be more specific. Okay, it sounds you know, Michael Tap, 0:09:14.920 --> 0:09:17.800 that's his first name, Michael. He started off doing Yes 0:09:17.840 --> 0:09:20.680 in the round, Kenny Rodgers in the Round, etcetera. So 0:09:20.760 --> 0:09:23.199 he's the in the round guy. But in the round 0:09:23.280 --> 0:09:25.640 was just another form of staging, let's say. I mean 0:09:25.679 --> 0:09:27.520 there were there were plenty of other shows we were 0:09:27.520 --> 0:09:30.760 doing at the time, but the boutique, you know that 0:09:30.920 --> 0:09:33.480 the expertise came with playing in the round because we 0:09:33.520 --> 0:09:36.360 had solved the problems right, and it's like it's like 0:09:36.480 --> 0:09:39.920 doing a boxing match in a in an arena. Michael 0:09:40.240 --> 0:09:43.199 aspired to getting a seating chart from a Frank Sinatra 0:09:43.280 --> 0:09:46.480 show when he first did Yes, Like, I'll just use 0:09:46.520 --> 0:09:51.319 a boxing seating chart because that must work, right, Okay, 0:09:51.360 --> 0:09:53.600 But the main motivation was to sell the back of 0:09:53.600 --> 0:09:56.600 the house, which you couldn't do absolutely the promoters and 0:09:56.640 --> 0:09:59.839 the managers just loved him to death. Okay. So now 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:04.000 to sell the lighting to Nocturn Journey and Herbie Herbert, Yes, 0:10:04.760 --> 0:10:06.920 and what does that leave you with? The stage that 0:10:07.000 --> 0:10:10.280 leads you with enough money to go decide that you 0:10:10.320 --> 0:10:13.040 want to build a real company. And so that was 0:10:13.120 --> 0:10:17.800 about we broke ground on the first facility I believe 0:10:17.840 --> 0:10:21.000 in the world that was custom built to build staging 0:10:21.000 --> 0:10:24.439 and scenery for the touring entertainment business. And we designed 0:10:24.440 --> 0:10:26.920 the building so that we had enough space to set 0:10:26.960 --> 0:10:29.040 something up, and we designed the building to be a 0:10:29.080 --> 0:10:32.040 real factory. So like the last place that that all 0:10:32.080 --> 0:10:34.080 the gear ended up was in the paint booth. The 0:10:34.120 --> 0:10:36.280 paint booth was by the loading dock, and off it 0:10:36.320 --> 0:10:39.560 went in the truck. And it was the beginning of 0:10:39.720 --> 0:10:46.199 kind of professionalizing and maturing a carnival industry, right okay. 0:10:46.240 --> 0:10:50.360 And when that happened, when you sold to Nocturn and 0:10:50.360 --> 0:10:52.920 you built your building, how many people how many employees 0:10:52.920 --> 0:10:57.760 were there then? Oh? My, probably twenty okay, And right 0:10:57.760 --> 0:11:02.600 now there are si okay. And that building, my might add, 0:11:02.880 --> 0:11:06.600 was a postage stamp compared to the five hundred thousand 0:11:06.600 --> 0:11:10.160 square feet of production facilities that we now currently operate with. 0:11:10.400 --> 0:11:13.719 Just to jump ahead, you built a rehearsal hall like 0:11:13.800 --> 0:11:17.040 six or eight years ago. Oh no, two years ago? 0:11:17.080 --> 0:11:20.280 Is it that recently? Yeah? Okay, how ten years to 0:11:20.320 --> 0:11:25.480 get it together? Right? Right? Right? So another game changer. Okay, 0:11:25.559 --> 0:11:29.040 tell my audience. It's a game changer because prior to 0:11:29.120 --> 0:11:31.800 having a facility like that, these shows have been getting 0:11:31.800 --> 0:11:34.960 complicated since the nineties, and when you take a show 0:11:35.080 --> 0:11:38.360 to go rehearse it, and and rehearsing sometimes means we 0:11:38.360 --> 0:11:41.040 don't really need the artists. We need to rehearse this. Technically, 0:11:42.200 --> 0:11:44.040 there's no place to do it, right. Where do you 0:11:44.080 --> 0:11:47.120 do it? The a market arenas or books solid with 0:11:47.280 --> 0:11:52.280 basketball hockey concerts, So you'd go to like Sheboygan nowhere 0:11:52.440 --> 0:11:56.920 or Baton Rouge nowhere somewhere that's a sea market building. 0:11:57.280 --> 0:11:59.319 And now all of a sudden, you have to compromise 0:11:59.400 --> 0:12:02.040 the show that you're trying to flush out because the 0:12:02.120 --> 0:12:05.080 building is not big enough, tall enough to support it. 0:12:05.520 --> 0:12:08.520 Something that drove us crazy for a long time to 0:12:08.600 --> 0:12:11.840 be able to have the luxury of having basically, we 0:12:11.920 --> 0:12:15.520 have a staple center in Littitz, Pennsylvania that has no seats. 0:12:15.880 --> 0:12:18.280 We can hang a million pounds from the it's just 0:12:18.400 --> 0:12:21.400 the stage, Agari. It's not something like as big as 0:12:21.400 --> 0:12:23.880 an arena. It is as big as an arena with 0:12:23.960 --> 0:12:28.200 no seats. You take you take that hockey dasher and 0:12:28.280 --> 0:12:30.600 get rid of the seats. It's a hundred feet tall. 0:12:30.960 --> 0:12:35.280 You can hang. We we've we've rehearsed stadium shows inside 0:12:35.320 --> 0:12:39.720 our rehearsal facility. It's that big. Okay. So in a year, 0:12:39.880 --> 0:12:45.280 approximately how many shows do you do? Wow? No freaking clue. 0:12:45.280 --> 0:12:46.959 I mean we probably have twenty five shows on the 0:12:47.040 --> 0:12:50.160 road right now, just touring shows, just touring. Okay, so 0:12:50.280 --> 0:12:55.560 those touring shows. If you have one rehearsal hall, it 0:12:55.600 --> 0:12:58.600 sounds like you needed an additional rehearsing hall. Yeah, but 0:12:58.679 --> 0:13:00.800 it took ten years to get this one, and it's 0:13:00.800 --> 0:13:03.760 in Lidditz, Pennsylvania. Like the thought of doing something like 0:13:03.800 --> 0:13:07.640 that out here in California it's crazy. It's it's unaffordable, 0:13:07.679 --> 0:13:10.439 you know, it's almost unaffordable where we live. But it's 0:13:10.440 --> 0:13:13.280 a luxury to us, and it supports an industry that 0:13:13.360 --> 0:13:15.760 we feel very strongly about. So if the thing can 0:13:15.840 --> 0:13:18.960 pay for itself, we're quite ecstatic about it because to 0:13:19.040 --> 0:13:21.600 be able to take the show that you're building next door, 0:13:22.440 --> 0:13:26.240 it's really it's it's helping everybody, Okay, And how many 0:13:26.280 --> 0:13:29.760 acts after you build it literally come rehearse. It's booked. 0:13:29.920 --> 0:13:33.720 It's booked all the time. Ariana Grande just left last week. 0:13:34.360 --> 0:13:38.320 There's something incredibly top secret in there right now and 0:13:39.520 --> 0:13:42.440 it's going. Okay, So let's just assume I'm going to 0:13:42.480 --> 0:13:46.080 rehearse in your room. What how much time do I need? 0:13:46.559 --> 0:13:49.680 Depends on how big your show is, um, and it 0:13:49.720 --> 0:13:52.640 depends on your artists, right. Some some artists rehearse for 0:13:52.679 --> 0:13:55.600 a month. They want to get the choreography, they want 0:13:55.600 --> 0:13:59.000 to get the programming. Some artists rehearse for three days. 0:13:59.000 --> 0:14:01.360 Some artists don't rehearse it all. You know, some well 0:14:01.480 --> 0:14:05.679 and John his show within our rehearsal facility. But that 0:14:05.720 --> 0:14:07.439 man can go sit at the piano and bang it 0:14:07.480 --> 0:14:09.640 out for a show with no problem. Right. The guy 0:14:09.679 --> 0:14:14.040 does not need to rehearse. His environment doesn't matter. Right. 0:14:14.080 --> 0:14:16.640 His environment is his seat at his piano with the 0:14:16.679 --> 0:14:20.640 relationship to his musicians. He doesn't even know where he is. Okay, 0:14:20.800 --> 0:14:23.080 let's go back. I've seen the show. The show is great. 0:14:23.080 --> 0:14:25.920 But at the end he goes on like a little 0:14:25.960 --> 0:14:29.400 you know, elevator rod. Okay, but there's a change that 0:14:29.560 --> 0:14:33.240 he looks. Okay, Well, of course there is, because he's 0:14:33.280 --> 0:14:37.560 got an insurance agent who's probably stressed out of his brain, like, 0:14:37.640 --> 0:14:40.600 oh my god, what are we gonna do if he falls? Okay? 0:14:40.600 --> 0:14:44.200 So that was driven by insurance usually those things. I mean, hey, 0:14:44.320 --> 0:14:47.200 if if it would make you feel comfortable, we'd strap 0:14:47.280 --> 0:14:50.120 you in. Like ideally you want to keep everybody safe. 0:14:50.160 --> 0:14:53.640 We have other redundancies of safety, but who knows what 0:14:53.720 --> 0:14:56.440 could happen to somebody you know? Okay, but that was 0:14:56.520 --> 0:14:59.880 driven not by the act, by insurance. Can't speak to 0:14:59.880 --> 0:15:02.720 the directly, Okay. Let me ask you a quiet question, 0:15:02.760 --> 0:15:08.040 do you know? Yeah? Okay? Okay. I don't need to 0:15:08.080 --> 0:15:10.400 push that because you know Elton's hips. He's not moving 0:15:10.400 --> 0:15:14.640 to fight, right, Okay. But let's go back. So you 0:15:14.720 --> 0:15:17.640 sell to doctorne you're in the staging business, and you 0:15:17.680 --> 0:15:22.560 professionalize it by our facilities. Yeah. And and then the 0:15:22.600 --> 0:15:25.400 next thing that happens in this world is our friends 0:15:25.400 --> 0:15:29.480 at Q Prime in Metallica decide to fight with Napster, 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:33.400 which for us was the best thing that ever happened 0:15:33.440 --> 0:15:36.200 in the world. Okay, you gotta explain it. Well, there 0:15:36.240 --> 0:15:38.880 we are. You know you could say, oh god, you 0:15:38.920 --> 0:15:41.360 guys were genius, what a great strategy. Have nothing to 0:15:41.400 --> 0:15:43.680 do with it, didn't even know what was happening at 0:15:43.720 --> 0:15:46.840 that point in time. The paradigm has shifted, as you 0:15:46.880 --> 0:15:49.400 write about, as you talk about, artists don't make money 0:15:49.400 --> 0:15:52.000 selling records. They don't make money on their recordings. They 0:15:52.080 --> 0:15:55.080 make money in the arenas. And now, all of a sudden, 0:15:56.040 --> 0:15:59.720 touring becomes a brand. Touring becomes your revenue stream and 0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:02.960 becomes the way you make your money. And so the 0:16:03.080 --> 0:16:08.280 show I think has changed dynamically immensely, right, Like it's 0:16:08.480 --> 0:16:10.320 it's not even the same as it used to be. 0:16:10.440 --> 0:16:14.880 It's now a spectacle. Right, There's a few artists who 0:16:15.000 --> 0:16:18.640 still have the musicality to go into an arena and 0:16:18.720 --> 0:16:22.560 use an oriental rug and a microphone stand. Very rare, right, 0:16:22.800 --> 0:16:26.280 very rare. Even some of the legends who have gone 0:16:26.280 --> 0:16:29.840 through their careers without having big productions, all of a 0:16:29.840 --> 0:16:34.000 sudden have a nicer living room. Okay, in terms of 0:16:34.080 --> 0:16:36.840 ticket sales, I know this is not literally your area 0:16:36.880 --> 0:16:41.040 of expertise. Do you think that production makes it so 0:16:41.120 --> 0:16:44.520 people come or these if you assuming you can play, 0:16:44.840 --> 0:16:48.800 you can sell the tickets without production. Uh, it's a 0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:51.560 tough question answer based on the fact that I don't 0:16:51.560 --> 0:16:53.520 have the facts, but I can tell you what I 0:16:53.520 --> 0:16:56.720 feel like. I mean, there's so much competition out there, 0:16:56.880 --> 0:16:59.400 and I think that the buyers are incredibly educated and 0:16:59.440 --> 0:17:02.280 they know who's putting on a spectacle and who's not. 0:17:02.400 --> 0:17:04.600 And so it's a choice, right. It's how much of 0:17:04.600 --> 0:17:07.359 a groupie or a music fan are you where you 0:17:07.359 --> 0:17:09.959 don't care about the production. But if you look at 0:17:09.960 --> 0:17:13.160 what social media has done to being at the event 0:17:13.680 --> 0:17:17.040 and having a big splash at the event, game changer. 0:17:17.119 --> 0:17:19.280 It's a total game changer. And every artist that we 0:17:19.359 --> 0:17:23.480 deal with knows what every other artist is doing out there. Okay, 0:17:23.520 --> 0:17:26.359 just to be clear, you seem to say that a 0:17:26.359 --> 0:17:30.920 lot of musicians couldn't play without the staging anywhere. No, no, no, 0:17:31.200 --> 0:17:34.120 I didn't say that. I I don't think that they 0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:38.400 could sell as many tickets. They certainly can play musically, 0:17:38.480 --> 0:17:40.640 Come on, they could go play at a club. Well, 0:17:40.680 --> 0:17:44.360 some can and some can't. Okay, But okay, so now 0:17:44.359 --> 0:17:48.160 you professionalize it when you say Cliff Bernstein que prim 0:17:48.200 --> 0:17:51.679 in Napster. You're just talking about the change in the 0:17:51.760 --> 0:17:55.600 scene or something specific that they did. Well. They they 0:17:55.640 --> 0:18:00.320 took Napster down, right. They they single handedly changed the 0:18:00.320 --> 0:18:03.159 the landscape of the industry. I believe it wouldn't have 0:18:03.200 --> 0:18:05.720 gone the way it is had that not happened. I 0:18:05.760 --> 0:18:08.399 don't believe if the artists are still making money like 0:18:08.440 --> 0:18:11.439 they used to make on those records. Maybe touring is 0:18:11.440 --> 0:18:13.760 not as important as it as it is now, but 0:18:13.840 --> 0:18:18.520 it became the source of revenue. Right, So it's your brand. 0:18:19.040 --> 0:18:20.520 What do you want your brand to look like? It 0:18:20.720 --> 0:18:22.399 didn't used to be, right, what did it used to 0:18:22.440 --> 0:18:24.560 be look like? You'd go on tour, you'd lose money 0:18:25.000 --> 0:18:27.439 to promote a record. Now, I don't know why they 0:18:27.440 --> 0:18:30.680 were losing money. So they didn't realize how much money 0:18:30.720 --> 0:18:32.240 was out there, and a lot of times they didn't 0:18:32.240 --> 0:18:36.520 want to charge, worrying about fan alienation. But okay, I 0:18:36.600 --> 0:18:41.480 know from talking to the Metallica guys whatever that generally speaking, 0:18:41.640 --> 0:18:44.600 let me put it this way, does the act own 0:18:44.720 --> 0:18:48.679 the stage? No, sir, you own it all. Well. We 0:18:48.800 --> 0:18:51.960 used to sell it in the eighties and the nineties, 0:18:52.240 --> 0:18:56.360 and I traveled around the world to several depots. There 0:18:56.400 --> 0:18:59.040 was one in upstaging in Chicago. There was one in 0:18:59.280 --> 0:19:04.320 Um explain it's a lighting in and trucking company that 0:19:04.359 --> 0:19:08.359 has a depot in Chicago. There was Mojo Barricades in Holland, 0:19:08.400 --> 0:19:11.400 which had a great storage facility. We had a storage 0:19:11.400 --> 0:19:14.679 facility and it wasn't good for the earth. It just 0:19:14.880 --> 0:19:18.120 wasn't like this. So that the scenario that existed back 0:19:18.160 --> 0:19:20.399 then is somebody would spend a lot of money for 0:19:20.440 --> 0:19:22.760 a stage that they would own it. The lawyers and 0:19:22.800 --> 0:19:25.280 the accountants and the manager of the artist could never 0:19:25.359 --> 0:19:27.160 agree what to do with it when they were finished 0:19:27.200 --> 0:19:29.840 with it, because they thought it was this giant asset 0:19:29.920 --> 0:19:32.280 that was completely reusable. But the fact of the matter 0:19:32.400 --> 0:19:35.560 is it was completely depreciated. Nobody was going to bring 0:19:35.600 --> 0:19:37.359 that thing out, and it was stored in such a 0:19:37.359 --> 0:19:40.320 way where very few humans could go find it and 0:19:40.359 --> 0:19:42.040 know what the hell to do with it to begin with. 0:19:42.600 --> 0:19:45.359 So it was hundreds of trucks. You think about some 0:19:45.400 --> 0:19:47.520 of these shows that you two's, the Rolling Stones, the 0:19:47.560 --> 0:19:50.199 Teena there are shows were big and they toured often, 0:19:50.760 --> 0:19:53.840 so hundreds and hundreds of trucks throughout the world just 0:19:53.920 --> 0:19:56.840 sitting there now there were people like us who were 0:19:56.880 --> 0:20:01.520 collecting rent on storage. But aside from that, it was 0:20:01.560 --> 0:20:10.480 a terrible thing for the environment. Okay, just to be clear, 0:20:10.760 --> 0:20:13.720 I come off the road fifty city tour. It literally 0:20:13.760 --> 0:20:16.560 sits in the truck for years. No, no, well that 0:20:16.760 --> 0:20:18.879 it could sit in the truck. In some places, they 0:20:18.880 --> 0:20:21.320 would literally because trailers are cheap, they'd go stew it 0:20:21.400 --> 0:20:25.000 somewhere in California, Arizona. But we had, you know, climate 0:20:25.000 --> 0:20:28.159 controlled environments where we would put things they would never 0:20:28.200 --> 0:20:31.439 see the light of day ever. And so now it 0:20:31.560 --> 0:20:34.240 bothered me to the point where I tried to change 0:20:34.520 --> 0:20:36.879 the business model, and I thought to myself, it's like 0:20:36.920 --> 0:20:41.760 renting a car. Right. There is a very specific armature 0:20:41.960 --> 0:20:45.119 of every stage set that's like an erector set, the decking, 0:20:45.280 --> 0:20:49.000 the stairs, that elevators, a lot of the mechanics. There's 0:20:49.000 --> 0:20:52.120 a guts to that show that you see every time 0:20:52.160 --> 0:20:56.840 you walk into arena that nobody's actually seeing, right, it 0:20:56.880 --> 0:21:00.719 could be aft of the guts, but you dress that 0:21:00.800 --> 0:21:04.920 guts up with all the stylistic versions of how we 0:21:05.160 --> 0:21:07.800 portray these shows, and now all of a sudden, you've 0:21:07.840 --> 0:21:12.320 got something that's actually sustainable and we're able to give 0:21:12.800 --> 0:21:15.280 more of a show to an artist than we could 0:21:15.320 --> 0:21:17.520 before because we're getting some of it back, and we're 0:21:17.520 --> 0:21:20.840 getting the useful bits back. We're getting all the automation, 0:21:21.359 --> 0:21:24.520 all the computers, we're getting all the power transmissions, and 0:21:24.560 --> 0:21:28.440 they're quite easily recyclable. And what is not recyclable at 0:21:28.440 --> 0:21:34.280 this time scenery? Right, scenery or something that's so stylistic 0:21:34.480 --> 0:21:37.159 for that artist or that show that it would easily 0:21:37.200 --> 0:21:39.320 be identified. Oh that was for so and so or 0:21:39.320 --> 0:21:43.040 this was what do you do with that stuff? Chuck it? Okay? 0:21:43.119 --> 0:21:46.720 So there's this big switch in the internet napster era 0:21:47.160 --> 0:21:50.520 where you know, the tour is supposed to being advertisement 0:21:50.560 --> 0:21:52.000 for the Record of Flips, and the record is the 0:21:52.040 --> 0:21:55.679 advertisement for the tour. In the twenty years that have 0:21:55.800 --> 0:21:59.760 gone by since the advent of Napster, what other changes 0:21:59.760 --> 0:22:03.520