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Speaker 1: This is the me eat your podcast coming at you shirtless,

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Speaker 1: severely bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listening podcast.

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Speaker 1: You can't predict anything, all right, I'm not gonna say

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Speaker 1: what kind of bar this is? Maybe I will. We're

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Speaker 1: sampling a bar at what do you call it? I mean, well,

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Speaker 1: how would you describe the bar? It's it's category No no, no,

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Speaker 1: I mean it's like in the category of energy bars

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Speaker 1: or what granola bars like super protein. And we were

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Speaker 1: little kids it was granola bars. But then people start

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Speaker 1: putting other stuff in them. These here the number one

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Speaker 1: ingredients ground beef, then dried prunes, almonds, sweet potatoes, oats,

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Speaker 1: brown flax seed, tomato, paste on on, anchovies. Yanni thinks

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Speaker 1: it tastes like dog food. It's got a dog food hint.

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Speaker 1: I first listen. When I was first sent these, I

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Speaker 1: open one up and ate it, and I had a box,

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Speaker 1: a box of boxes. Al it was so bad. I

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Speaker 1: gave the people at the post office two boxes. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know what you guys all do for lunch,

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Speaker 1: but here and um. Then that went in there later

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Speaker 1: and they're like, man, those things were awful, um, but

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Speaker 1: now they're kind of growing on me. What I do

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Speaker 1: is I put a bunch of my glove box of

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Speaker 1: the car. My kids won't go near him. But when

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Speaker 1: I meant to be like, I'll just feed into the kids.

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Speaker 1: And they started complaining in the car and now and

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Speaker 1: then I'll be like just out of like, you know,

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Speaker 1: driving along, I'll just kind of have a hankering, and

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Speaker 1: they're kind of a little bit growing on me. These

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Speaker 1: things expired last June two thousand, fifteen June. Is that

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Speaker 1: right better? You can want to take a look at that.

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Speaker 1: My friend met a guy and he described him as

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Speaker 1: my body met a guy, and his body described the

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Speaker 1: guy as being the kind of guy that girls off

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Speaker 1: of you, Um, which I always liked, but you like

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Speaker 1: him at first and slowly stopped liking him. But these

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Speaker 1: are the kind of thing to grow on you. First

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Speaker 1: thing I want to talk about. Yeah, and you explain

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Speaker 1: this what we did? Oh? Nice? Yeah? So did they

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Speaker 1: send you your hat? Yeah? Oh yeah. So we're hunting

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Speaker 1: squirrels in Kentucky and we filled out a form a

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Speaker 1: squirrel hunting Cooperator Survey Report or yeah, and you like

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Speaker 1: log your squirrel hunting activities, and we sent our squirrel

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Speaker 1: hunting thing in They sent me a sweet Blaze orange

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Speaker 1: squirrel hunting baseball hat, and they sent a summation of

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Speaker 1: squirrel hunting in Kentuck. You so, dudes, last year hunting

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Speaker 1: in Kentucky would see two point five squirrels per hour

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Speaker 1: in August, which slowly dropped two. Okay in August. The

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Speaker 1: dude Kentucky, your average Kentucky squirrel hunter, who's probably your

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Speaker 1: better squirrel hunters? Because those the kind of guys that

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Speaker 1: would turn a log in. I don't think I'm going out.

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Speaker 1: You're a trained biologist, right, would you agree that more

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Speaker 1: tuned in dudes are gonna turn in a voluntary log

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Speaker 1: or would you think that even shitty bad hunters are

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Speaker 1: gonna turn into voluntary log I think the guys that

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Speaker 1: are experienced some success. And also, who's noting in August?

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Speaker 1: Probably people are pretty serious about turkey, So this is

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Speaker 1: probably like a tuned in hunt. So this, yeah, these

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Speaker 1: are the guys that are dialed in, biased or tuned in.

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Speaker 1: So in August, your average Kentucky in it's seeing two

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Speaker 1: point five squirrels per hour and killing about one per hour.

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Speaker 1: By February, here's the weird thing By February. He's seeing

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Speaker 1: one squirrel about one squirrel per hour and killing point

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Speaker 1: five per hour. You know what the moral of that

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Speaker 1: story is, your honest hunting August Um, they're seeing a

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Speaker 1: lot more foxes and grays. When I was open to

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Speaker 1: my mail, I ripped the salment used to like regular

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Speaker 1: old male anymore. I ripped my thing all to pieces. Anyhow,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about caribou. Uh Land Tony. I'm sitting

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Speaker 1: in with us Land b H A bad country hunters

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Speaker 1: and anglers. Uh Ryan Callahan general guy Hunter Fisher works

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Speaker 1: at the hunting apparel company First Light. Janice tell us

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Speaker 1: the man who will not maybe my perch flies. We

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Speaker 1: work closer together, talk every day on the phone. Still

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Speaker 1: won't do it. And introduce yourself. Bart Bart George Bart George.

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Speaker 1: I'm a b H, a board member for Washington State

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Speaker 1: and a wildlife biologist for the Calispell tribe up in

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Speaker 1: northeast Washington. Explain Anthony, they have a wildlife biologist right. Well,

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Speaker 1: we have a big natural resource department. Um, so we

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Speaker 1: have about fifteen fish biologists. I'm the only wildlife biologist,

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Speaker 1: but um, we have so many fish and and so

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Speaker 1: you work for the tribe, right, because they're just fisheries reliant,

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Speaker 1: not necessarily fisheries reliant, but um fish where the money

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Speaker 1: is at right is right? Yeah, I didn't know that

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Speaker 1: for sure. And where do you do where? Where are you?

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Speaker 1: Where do you do your where are you based out

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Speaker 1: of northeast Washington Pondrea County it's the most northeast corner

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Speaker 1: of the state, and then also over into North Idaho

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Speaker 1: up around Priest Lake mostly, But explain that why is

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Speaker 1: it that the money's in the fish, because I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: necessarily guess that um. Well, certainly in the northwest with

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Speaker 1: all the salmon runs in our um the anadromous fish,

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Speaker 1: but then also in our area it's the add fluvial fish,

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Speaker 1: the bull trout and stuff like that. Okay, explain unadromus

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Speaker 1: coach adrenus and a fluvial well. Most of us are

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Speaker 1: familiar with salmon making the run out of the ocean

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Speaker 1: and coming back into freshwater to spawn in their natal streams.

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Speaker 1: That'd be in anadromous fish. Add fluvial fish like a

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Speaker 1: bull trout that we have in northeast Washington. Um they're

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Speaker 1: also an endangered run of fish. But they use big

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Speaker 1: lakes basically as their ocean. So instead of making it

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Speaker 1: all the way out of saltwater, um, they used Lake

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Speaker 1: Ponderre or one of the big lakes there, and so

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Speaker 1: Nadermus refers to salt water like like in the Great

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Speaker 1: Lakes the salmon. They took Pacific salmon and caught them

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Speaker 1: an established him and caught him loosen the Great Lakes.

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Speaker 1: So they treat the Lake Michigan, for instance, Lake Superior,

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Speaker 1: like Michigan Lake here on. They treat it as their ocean,

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Speaker 1: which is freshwater still and they run up to spawn.

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Speaker 1: You would say that those are add fluvial fish. Well, like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: maybe I'm talking out of turn though I'm a caribou.

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Speaker 1: I don't need to before you into an area you're

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Speaker 1: not familiar with. But that's what's going on there, okay.

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Speaker 1: And then uh so a cattagimus fish would be like

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Speaker 1: the American eel lives in the river, goes out to

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Speaker 1: the ocean to spawn. I thought we covered this before.

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Speaker 1: We certainly might have, and I can't say it's been

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Speaker 1: on a podcast. Yeah, So like eel spends his life

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Speaker 1: in the river, goes out, actually goes down to the

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Speaker 1: Sargasso Sea. Um. So if you're standing in like New

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Speaker 1: York and you see eel swim by, that he's gonna

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Speaker 1: wind up going to the Sargasso Sea to reproduce. Um. Okay,

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Speaker 1: that has nothing to do with what you work on. Um.

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Speaker 1: But when you say that, so, so you to explain

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Speaker 1: again where you work. Um So Northeast Washington, in the

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Speaker 1: Selkirk Mountains, in the British Columbia, in the North Idaho,

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Speaker 1: A lot across a variety of land owners like a

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Speaker 1: lot of a variety of and ownership areas or no

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Speaker 1: for sure? Um. Yeah, A lot of state land, A

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Speaker 1: lot of federal land, mostly for service. We don't have

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Speaker 1: a lot of BLM or any other management. Um. A

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Speaker 1: lot of private timber company um. Idaho state land, Washington

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Speaker 1: state land, provincial land in British Columbia. So what's your like?

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Speaker 1: I don't understand what what's your mandate like? If you

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Speaker 1: work for you work for a tribal organization. Right, so

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Speaker 1: the tribe, we're a small reservation. We only have about

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Speaker 1: five thousand acres on the reservation. So caribou were never

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Speaker 1: going to be on the reservation. But um, they're an

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Speaker 1: important species to the tribe historically there in the neighborhood.

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Speaker 1: I guess twenty miles up the hill. Um So, the tribe,

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Speaker 1: we don't have land ownership responsibility, but we have some

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Speaker 1: management responsibility through cooperative agreements. I got you, I got you,

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Speaker 1: and then layout for me how you became to be

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Speaker 1: a biologist? Real quick? Like, what was sort of education

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Speaker 1: path does a fellow take. We're kids, we all were saying,

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Speaker 1: we all would say we're gonna be wildlife biologists right

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Speaker 1: to my brothers. Did it? We just said, because it

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Speaker 1: seemed like a way you could spend a lot of

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Speaker 1: time outdoors. It is. It's a good job that way.

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Speaker 1: Um So, I got a bachelor's degree back and I

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Speaker 1: grew up in Iowa, small town, kind of farm kid.

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Speaker 1: Um went to Simpson College, got my bachelor's degree there,

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Speaker 1: and moved west immediately after college. Moved to Washington State

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Speaker 1: and started working on hydro power projects along the Columbia River,

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Speaker 1: and then eventually moved up into northeast Washington with the tribe.

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Speaker 1: Um again, the rivers in the Northwest are definitely where

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Speaker 1: the jobs are at. Everything sort of tied to wildlife

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Speaker 1: mitigation or restoration projects that way. Uh, my brother who

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Speaker 1: is a fisheries guy, when he first came out west,

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Speaker 1: it was hydro electric stuff on the Columbia Counting salmon. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's pretty common sturgeon issues. Yeah, and then went on

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Speaker 1: to do all kinds of things he didn't know about

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Speaker 1: at the time. When you're growing up in Iowa, there's

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Speaker 1: no way you knew that there were caribou in the

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Speaker 1: lower forty eight, right, No way. You probably walk around

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Speaker 1: the neighborhood. I bet most people in Seattle wouldn't know

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Speaker 1: there's I live in Montana for years, Western Montana for

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Speaker 1: years before I would before I had the opportunity to

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Speaker 1: call bullshit on someone who's saying that caribo used to

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Speaker 1: come down in Idaho and Washington. I'm like, no, they

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Speaker 1: did not, idiot, I definitely did. People. Yeah, how is

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Speaker 1: it not known? Growing up in Montana, it was like

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Speaker 1: this Montana history fact, Like get caribou and Montana. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's the only way I in Idaho. Now that I

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Speaker 1: live in Idaho, and I think we need to like

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Speaker 1: reiterate this Western or Eastern Washington, Idaho, Montana caribou. Do

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Speaker 1: we exist there? Nobody knows? Nobody knows and I the

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Speaker 1: wolf thing is so giant and nobody knows about cariboo

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Speaker 1: like it just drives me crazy. Sorry, go ahead, that's true,

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Speaker 1: dries everybody crazy? How okay? This year, let me ask

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Speaker 1: you a handful questions to get people, just to get

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Speaker 1: people into what we're doing here, to know what's going on.

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Speaker 1: One years the oh, I, let's do this at the

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Speaker 1: place of scene HOLI, scene transition ten tho years ago,

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Speaker 1: pre human contact? How many caribou were running around possibly?

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Speaker 1: And what is now the lower forty eight? What was

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Speaker 1: like a hundred years ago? What's it like right now?

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Speaker 1: I can't I don't know anything about the place of

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Speaker 1: scene erea or anything like that during you know whatever,

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Speaker 1: pre contact um a hundred years ago, there were hundreds

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Speaker 1: of caribou south of the border, there were enough. Teddy

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Speaker 1: Roosevelt went on a guided hunt out of Priests Lake.

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Speaker 1: Did you get one? No? But he spent ten days

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Speaker 1: hiking around the Selkirk Mountains looking for him. So there

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Speaker 1: must have been a handful around to make him think

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Speaker 1: that he could experience some success. And what was their

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Speaker 1: range of hundred years ago? There are reports all the

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Speaker 1: way down to the St. Joe Um then in the

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Speaker 1: quarter lanes, but mostly um in the south. Selkirk sent

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Speaker 1: over into the cabinet area. And were these caribou a

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Speaker 1: hundred years ago just spending some other time in the

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Speaker 1: Lower forty eight or is there a cariboo that would

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Speaker 1: be born and die and live their whole lives in Washington, Idaho?

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Speaker 1: They definitely um live their lives. There's enough habitat up

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Speaker 1: there to support a herd of cariboo for sure, throughout

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Speaker 1: the year, throughout their life. Um. Right now, right now,

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Speaker 1: they're still caribou that kind of flirt with the border

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Speaker 1: of both the States and Canada, and they kind of

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Speaker 1: bounce around all three areas. So right now, at this moment,

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Speaker 1: is there a caribou and Lower forty eight? Uh, we

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Speaker 1: don't know, I guess when we have two collars out

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Speaker 1: right now, But it's possible. I bet there's a cariboo

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Speaker 1: within ten miles of the border. If there's not, what

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Speaker 1: kind of caribou we talk about a mountain cariboo? Do

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Speaker 1: you believe in all the distinctions they drove carib because

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Speaker 1: because you know how you have in taxonomy, you have

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Speaker 1: your lumpers and your splitters. There are people who look

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Speaker 1: at animals and they see this amazing uh tapestry of subspecies.

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Speaker 1: And there's like the you know, the Aaron ground grizzly,

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Speaker 1: the mountain grizzly, the coastal brown bear. And then you

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Speaker 1: have other people in taxonomy who say it's all one species.

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Speaker 1: They just have They just look a little bit different

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Speaker 1: depending on where you go, but it's just one species.

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Speaker 1: I recently read that a guy arguing that that all caribou,

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Speaker 1: even the ones in Eurasia, are just a species and

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Speaker 1: there's no reason to say that it's subspecies. Well, I

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Speaker 1: don't agree with that. Um. He acknowledged that he was

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Speaker 1: going out on a limb. Yeah, yeah, I wouldn't agree

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Speaker 1: with that. I think there's you know again, there's lumpers

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Speaker 1: and their splitters. The caribou that we have in the

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Speaker 1: South Selkirk's um. What makes them unique to other mountain

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Speaker 1: caribou UM is their use of the high elevation country

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Speaker 1: during the wintertime, so they're eating lichens rbo lichens out

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Speaker 1: of trees is the old man's beard, the stuff you

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Speaker 1: see growing in the trees to get above the snow. Right,

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Speaker 1: so they're standing on whatever eight foot of snow and

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Speaker 1: they're eating lichens that are out of reach the rest

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Speaker 1: of the year. And they're pretty much the only species

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Speaker 1: that can do that. Um. The only you know, deer

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Speaker 1: and moose and elk aren't up there, so they have

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Speaker 1: sort of a niche market because those animals all leave

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Speaker 1: right um. And historically moose and elk didn't really share

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Speaker 1: that habitat anyway, sort of a new thing, um due

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Speaker 1: to habitat change and other things. So the cariboo we have.

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Speaker 1: If we took caribou from the north, you know, they're

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Speaker 1: still mountain Cariboo whatever, say we get them from Newfoundland

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Speaker 1: or something and we dropped them, Uh, they would not

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Speaker 1: know how to use that habitat. There's a possibility we

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Speaker 1: could train them though with um, you know, pen them

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Speaker 1: together and let them sort of co mingle long enough

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Speaker 1: and do kind of a soft release or something like that.

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Speaker 1: But augmentations where you just take an animal from a

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Speaker 1: different ecotype and throw them down, it's been a failure.

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Speaker 1: Can you I'm gonna keep having you stopped to explain

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Speaker 1: thing that people might not know what you mean? Can

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Speaker 1: you just play in a hot release and or a

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Speaker 1: hard release and a soft release which is this is

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Speaker 1: some fascinating stuff. Yeah. Well, um, a hard release is

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Speaker 1: pretty basic. You're taking an animal, you're moving it from

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Speaker 1: one spot, and you're just wishing it luck and kicking

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Speaker 1: it loose into a new area, new habitat, type, new whatever,

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Speaker 1: mountain range. Um. Some species you can do that with

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Speaker 1: pretty well. Big horn sheep you can't. You can't store

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Speaker 1: big horn sheep for very long. They'll kill themselves in

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Speaker 1: the pen. So you're pretty much stuck with doing hard

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Speaker 1: release with that kind of animal. Um Wolves, and they're

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Speaker 1: really easy. They're gonna they're gonna make a life for

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Speaker 1: themselves wherever you drop them hot or cold. Yeah, you

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Speaker 1: don't have to like sort of do a soft release.

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Speaker 1: You don't have to do anything to temper them into

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Speaker 1: a new piece of habitat Caribou it seems that you do.

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Speaker 1: You do got to do soft. What we're gonna do,

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Speaker 1: you know, what we would like to do is build

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Speaker 1: sort of a pen or an enclosure and have a

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Speaker 1: few of our resident animals and then bring some other

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Speaker 1: animals out of one of these other herds and put

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Speaker 1: them all together and leave them to calve together in

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Speaker 1: the spring, and then you know, July or so opened

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Speaker 1: the gates and let them kind of come and go

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Speaker 1: at their leisure until they sort of figure out how

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Speaker 1: to use that landscape and hopefully they'll mother up to

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Speaker 1: that resident group of animals. I was first introduced to

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Speaker 1: those terms when I was researching a book I wrote

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Speaker 1: about buffalo or bison, and uh I did a hunt

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Speaker 1: for a group of introduced buffalo up on the Copper

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Speaker 1: River in Alaska, and it was a classic, like hot

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Speaker 1: released story where they took thirteen of them and put

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Speaker 1: them in the back of a truck and caught them

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Speaker 1: loose by a mine. And for decades everyone thought they

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Speaker 1: just all died, But then the herd turns up thriving

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Speaker 1: und fifty miles away. And then later people learned that

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Speaker 1: when you're dealing with those, you build a you know,

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Speaker 1: an enclosure, let him just be in there and taken

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Speaker 1: care of him. One day, you just kind of leave

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Speaker 1: the door open, right, But because you kick him out

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Speaker 1: the back of the truck, they don't know what happened,

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Speaker 1: and they start and they just started moving trying to

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Speaker 1: find where they were coming from or whatever. Yeah, we

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Speaker 1: had um augmentation. Animals end up in Montana and end

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Speaker 1: up um down in Bonner's Ferry and the River Valley

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Speaker 1: in the wintertime, where you know, lots of predators, lions

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Speaker 1: were eating them, getting hit by cars and stuff like

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Speaker 1: that because they had no idea how to where they

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Speaker 1: were and what to do. They didn't know how to

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Speaker 1: use that landscape at all. Now, can I assume that? Uh?

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Speaker 1: And we got got questions. I just love this topic.

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Speaker 1: So I'm gonna be quiet and lets you and me

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Speaker 1: have run in the mountain Caribou. Yes, a little way,

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Speaker 1: a little ways up into BC and Yanni a number

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Speaker 1: of times. Gorgeous, Oh my godgeous. Amazing. Actually, that one

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Speaker 1: we saw last year, we had to listen to him

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Speaker 1: rutting and grunting and wow. Nice. Yeah, it looked like

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Speaker 1: fabio man. Just like where was that at? It was

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Speaker 1: outside of Prince George. Okay, yeah, non migrantor they just live.

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Speaker 1: They probably have some some amount of migration. They just

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Speaker 1: like are like glued to these mountain ranges. You know,

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Speaker 1: they get up like in the north slope and you're

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Speaker 1: looking when you hunt cariboo as I like to do

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Speaker 1: open the north slope, you're looking at animals that probably

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Speaker 1: there's a very strong chance they've never been where they

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Speaker 1: are right now, right'd be like that might be his

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Speaker 1: first you think of animals, that's that was such a

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Speaker 1: defined sense of place, but you really care, like as

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Speaker 1: far as there's a very good chance that that thing

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Speaker 1: has never been in this valley before, just roaming, you know,

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Speaker 1: hundreds of miles. I do have a question, why only

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Speaker 1: two collars? And is their ratio of collars? Ted? Don't

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Speaker 1: don't answer Cale's questions. We haven't established something. Hold it,

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Speaker 1: we haven't established like what it is? Like what is it? Okay,

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Speaker 1: lay off me the situation we used to have them.

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Speaker 1: Why don't we now is someone trying to do something

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Speaker 1: about it? Okay, well that we can. Then then we'll

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Speaker 1: do Cale's questions. Actually, they go pretty nicely. We had

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Speaker 1: six collars. No, no, not that not collars caribou. Well

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00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:06,160
Speaker 1: that's the same story. Um So we had six collars

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Speaker 1: out and a pretty good cross section of the population,

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Speaker 1: and we've seen all these sources of mortality sort of

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Speaker 1: pop up. Now that we have information on the caribou.

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Speaker 1: Um so we have to use our collar data to

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00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:23,520
Speaker 1: sort of extrapolate any information that we get from this

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Speaker 1: or I'm trying to I'm trying to go way deeper

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Speaker 1: than that. Okay, Well we've lost animals too. Um. The

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Speaker 1: highway Highway three cuts right through their middle of their

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Speaker 1: habitat up in British Columbia. So we lose animals on

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Speaker 1: the highway. Um, we have significant habitat change. We've got

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Speaker 1: a lot of habitat protected up there. Um, a lot

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Speaker 1: of good intact old growth, a lot of good high

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Speaker 1: country for them to use. Um. So uh, what is

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Speaker 1: the like? Can you give me a sense of the

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Speaker 1: the overall picture of caribou and caribou conservation in the

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Speaker 1: lower forty eight. Um, yeah, I can the We have

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Speaker 1: cariboo in the lower forty eight. They're in tough shape though. Um,

352
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Speaker 1: there's been significant habitat changes, although we have lots of

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Speaker 1: places still protected. Um. There's like twelve cariboo left in

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Speaker 1: that South South Kirk herd twelve. Um, and they all

355
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Speaker 1: spend some of their they're all they all crossed back

356
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Speaker 1: and forth. Yeah, they're all right along the border. Um

357
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Speaker 1: a dozen, we're down to a dozen. Yeah, we had

358
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Speaker 1: where's like the next chunk of like their buddies or

359
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Speaker 1: cousins or the next herd to the north. Um. There

360
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Speaker 1: are fifteen suburbs in the in the south Selkirks, so

361
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Speaker 1: there are other herds around, um, but they're not connected anymore.

362
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Speaker 1: There's development in the river bottom stuff like that. They

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Speaker 1: just so there's there's effectively a population of animals it

364
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Speaker 1: is not getting that is not breeding with another pot.

365
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Speaker 1: Relation to animals is only fifteen left twelve I'm sorry,

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Speaker 1: twelve left right. Um. And that population was doing quite

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Speaker 1: well actually in the early two thousand's, like we were

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Speaker 1: on an increasing trend. We added up to like forty

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Speaker 1: six animals in two thousand, um, eight or nine. It's

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Speaker 1: such hard to have a numbers today. So they were increasing, increasing, increasing,

371
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Speaker 1: they were doing pretty well. Um. And like I said,

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Speaker 1: we have we have a lot of habitat protections in place. Um.

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Speaker 1: You know, we have road closures, we have different things

374
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Speaker 1: happening to keep caribou safe. Um that the old growth

375
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Speaker 1: forest is chopped up a little bit, but there are

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Speaker 1: still places for them to find winter food, which is

377
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Speaker 1: a problem for some herds. UM. So kind of what's happened,

378
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Speaker 1: I guess is we have all this habitat change and

379
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Speaker 1: we have all these fragmented habitats and um as we've

380
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Speaker 1: logged these things over the last whatever hundred years, we've

381
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Speaker 1: created this huge moose population. Okay, so they love that

382
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Speaker 1: second girl stuff. They love it. You have thirty year

383
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Speaker 1: old cuts are perfect for moose, and we have a

384
00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:11,960
Speaker 1: lot of those um so as. Moose have sort of

385
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Speaker 1: rolled into this country. They've bridged the gap between the

386
00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:20,680
Speaker 1: river bottoms which were white tailed deer and the caribou elevationally,

387
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Speaker 1: and it wasn't a big deal until wolf recovery because

388
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:28,760
Speaker 1: now we have this prey species from the river bottoms

389
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Speaker 1: to the moose up in the mid elevation to the

390
00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:35,720
Speaker 1: cariboo in the high country. So where before moose were

391
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Speaker 1: on the landscape, wolves and caribou coexisted because they didn't

392
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Speaker 1: really run into each other. Now they are encountering each

393
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Speaker 1: other more often, and we're getting um secondary predation, I

394
00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:53,200
Speaker 1: guess you'd call it because white tails have traditionally lived

395
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Speaker 1: along the right white areas, where you had white tails

396
00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:58,880
Speaker 1: in the riparian zones along the rivers, and they would

397
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:01,639
Speaker 1: support the wolf population. Wolves knew about a new about

398
00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:03,800
Speaker 1: would hunt them right, and you had caribow up in

399
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Speaker 1: the high country. And then moose came in, and now

400
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Speaker 1: a wolf would find good hunting at all these various

401
00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:12,160
Speaker 1: elevations and now finds cause to be drifting around up

402
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:16,119
Speaker 1: in Cariboo Country. That's right. And the high moose population

403
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Speaker 1: as a it's a totally a result of the um

404
00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:26,679
Speaker 1: you know, wildfires and habitat change, I guess to logging. Um,

405
00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:29,960
Speaker 1: as the moose population has grown pretty high, it maintained

406
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:31,919
Speaker 1: sort of a I don't want to say an artificially

407
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:35,480
Speaker 1: high level of wolves, but higher than what would have

408
00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:38,880
Speaker 1: been here historically. The hammer moves pretty hard there. Uh. Yeah,

409
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:41,600
Speaker 1: they support you know, moose and elk are certainly supporting

410
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Speaker 1: the wolf population. UM. So since two thousand and nine,

411
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Speaker 1: we you know, we documented our first wolf back in

412
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Speaker 1: northeast Washington in two thousand and nine, and we've seen

413
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Speaker 1: this precipitous decline in the caribou population from forty six

414
00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:57,679
Speaker 1: now to twelve over the course of just a few years.

415
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:02,800
Speaker 1: How uh, how contentious is that statement you just made?

416
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:08,560
Speaker 1: Not that contentious, you'd be surprised. Um. I think people

417
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:12,359
Speaker 1: pretty much recognize that that's the problem. They do, Yeah,

418
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Speaker 1: because you get a lot of people who one wolves

419
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:17,280
Speaker 1: can do no harm, and you get a lot of

420
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:21,760
Speaker 1: people who wolves do all harm well, and you've met

421
00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:24,320
Speaker 1: them both. Sure, Oh yeah, yeah, we see them both

422
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:31,080
Speaker 1: for sure. The wolves are the it's it's additional. Um. Predation. No,

423
00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:34,640
Speaker 1: Lions were a big problem in the nineties for predation.

424
00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:37,840
Speaker 1: And when a lion, you know, their specialists. So they

425
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:41,439
Speaker 1: key in on our small subgroup of caribou and they

426
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:43,679
Speaker 1: would kill all of them if you let them. We

427
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:47,320
Speaker 1: had callers out then, and if that started happening, we

428
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:50,440
Speaker 1: respond with dogs and chase the lion, kill it and

429
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:54,720
Speaker 1: the caribou. We're doing all right, like you could pinpoint

430
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:58,159
Speaker 1: a specific line. Oh yeah, now, they're definitely specialist. I

431
00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 1: remember reading a story and trapp rom Creditor call our

432
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:02,399
Speaker 1: magazine when I was a kid in the eighties, and

433
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 1: it was about like a line they called like the

434
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:06,680
Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollar lion because they had done a big

435
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 1: horn sheep reintroduction down in Arizona. The price tag on

436
00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 1: the sheep introduction was a hundred thousand and uh some

437
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,679
Speaker 1: time moved in there and killed every single one of them.

438
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 1: And they will, they will, they will key in on

439
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:24,680
Speaker 1: a group and they're pretty effective. Um. Yeah, they had

440
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:28,040
Speaker 1: one then whatever. They don't usually name animals or whatever,

441
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:30,679
Speaker 1: but they called this one Mr. Nasty and it was

442
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:32,640
Speaker 1: a big tom and he lived in the high country

443
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:36,600
Speaker 1: and he was really tough on the Cariboo. Yeah, when

444
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:38,679
Speaker 1: they got rid of him, the herd started coming back up.

445
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 1: It made a difference in the population. Over how many

446
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:43,400
Speaker 1: years was that line and they're doing it, I think

447
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:45,280
Speaker 1: it was two or three years. And then you know,

448
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:48,120
Speaker 1: I started off kind of once one here and there,

449
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:50,159
Speaker 1: and then people started putting together like this thing is

450
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,159
Speaker 1: causing a bunch of trouble, and we started accrediting a

451
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:57,240
Speaker 1: lot of the kills to that one circumstances. It's so acute,

452
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:00,200
Speaker 1: it's kind of hard to say, no, that's not what's

453
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,399
Speaker 1: going on, right, I mean, that's an easy that's an

454
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 1: easy fix. That's certainly easier than um the wolf problem.

455
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 1: You know, we have there's other options. There's a place

456
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:10,320
Speaker 1: in Canada in the Peace River area they went in

457
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:14,160
Speaker 1: and wiped out most of the moose to help. Yeah,

458
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:16,320
Speaker 1: you know, you removed the moose, you removed the primary

459
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 1: prayer for the wolves and um over this wildly unpopular,

460
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:24,200
Speaker 1: Like can you imagine trying to explain that to people

461
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 1: in the know British Columbia and North Idaho and Northeast Washington,

462
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:28,440
Speaker 1: that we're going to kill all the moose to say

463
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 1: the cariboo. Yeah, yeah, I wouldn't go. No, I I can't.

464
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 1: I can't imagine. I don't like imagining having that conversation.

465
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:41,479
Speaker 1: My kids were watching one day an animated, uh like

466
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:43,960
Speaker 1: cartoon movie and they call it, I don't know what

467
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:46,719
Speaker 1: it's called. They call it Trapper Wolves. It's like the

468
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:49,960
Speaker 1: plot because there's a wolf family, you gather, it's you know,

469
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:54,920
Speaker 1: brit BC. I gather and the bad guys are out

470
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 1: trying to live trap the wolves and try and come

471
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:02,639
Speaker 1: out of helicopter. It's like the baby story, but the

472
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 1: bad guys are biologists out trying to trank and relocate

473
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:12,679
Speaker 1: wolves to save the caribou. Really yeah, I'm not kidding you.

474
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,000
Speaker 1: And then the wolves leave to get away, so it's

475
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:17,960
Speaker 1: like but the end result is the same because it

476
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 1: wasn't the whole thing that you didn't want to get relocated.

477
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 1: But then they go find a new place lift, which

478
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 1: is kind of what's gonna happen. It's a very confused plot.

479
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 1: Children's right, Yeah, but it's like at what point. Yeah,

480
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:31,359
Speaker 1: but it was just a lot easier when they're just

481
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:32,879
Speaker 1: gonna go bad. I was gonna kill. It was like

482
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:38,919
Speaker 1: the bad guys are like oddly Southern hillbillies, Southern hillbilly

483
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 1: biologists who are out trying to trank wolves to save cariboo.

484
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 1: But they were bad. It's the weirdest program teaching kids

485
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:50,920
Speaker 1: that ballogists are bad, Like, don't believe those ballotis. They're bad.

486
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:57,400
Speaker 1: Not only bad, but from the South Caribou. Did they

487
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 1: have a set of tee ends every year they single cavers,

488
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:05,880
Speaker 1: single cavers. Yeah, reproducers and then they don't reproduce. Still

489
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:08,119
Speaker 1: there two and a half, which is you know, also

490
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:12,040
Speaker 1: cost you a year. Now. So when you guys got

491
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:17,359
Speaker 1: rid of Mr Nasty the specialist Tom Mountain Lion, that

492
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 1: that next season, did you guys see a couple extra

493
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 1: calves or Yeah? It was pretty immediate. And obviously the

494
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:28,720
Speaker 1: lines taking adult animals and subadults, it doesn't matter, um

495
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:30,920
Speaker 1: they it was a pretty immediate difference when you got

496
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:34,919
Speaker 1: rid of him. So a mountain cariboo waits those two

497
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 1: and a half to have a calf, Yeah, and then

498
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:40,040
Speaker 1: it'll kick one out every year pretty much yeah, I

499
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:44,160
Speaker 1: mean ideally our caribou um have all been in pretty

500
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:48,280
Speaker 1: good condition. When when they're captured and um handled, they're

501
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 1: in good condition. They're almost always pregnant. So we have

502
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 1: you know, it tells you that their nutritional needs are

503
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 1: probably being met. So break down the college situation. Calhan,

504
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 1: they asked you ask your collar question. You have my permission,

505
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 1: so you said before you only have two collars? Out

506
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 1: is why? I mean, why only two colors? Is there

507
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 1: like a prime ratio between how many collars you would

508
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:18,320
Speaker 1: have for your herd size? And as part of that,

509
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:20,680
Speaker 1: can you explain what you gain by why, what coloring

510
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 1: means and what what you gained by a collar or something? Sure? Um,

511
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 1: well there's a you certainly gain a lot of information

512
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 1: by coloring the animals. Um. We figure out how they're

513
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:32,160
Speaker 1: using the habitat where they're crossing the highway, which is

514
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 1: a big deal. Um. And then also you're figuring out

515
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 1: sources of mortality. So you put a GPS locator on. Yeah,

516
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:40,200
Speaker 1: their GPS colors and they have VHF during the daylight hour.

517
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:41,959
Speaker 1: So if we go up in an airplane, we can

518
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:44,640
Speaker 1: go fly and find them that way. Um, So we

519
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 1: get one point a day um electronically on our computer

520
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:53,280
Speaker 1: and then also with the VHF we can find them whenever. Um.

521
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 1: So with the collar data, we're figuring out sources of mortality,

522
00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 1: which is really important. We're also figuring out calving areas,

523
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 1: which is nice to know. Um, all this stuff you

524
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,560
Speaker 1: didn't know before where they were. We had an idea. Um,

525
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 1: you know, we know the type of habitat. But when

526
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:07,720
Speaker 1: you're down to twelve animals, you start kind of pinpointing

527
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:11,360
Speaker 1: like individual animals, right yeah, um, instead of thinking about

528
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 1: like that herd that heard, you're like that animal, right right. Um.

529
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 1: So the reason we're down we started with six out

530
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:20,240
Speaker 1: of I think we had seventeen animals in the herd

531
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 1: when we call heared, Um, we're down to two collars.

532
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:28,840
Speaker 1: One collar is on an animal but dead and so

533
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 1: we don't count that we have. And you shoot it

534
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 1: at it, You shoot a dart at it. These are

535
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:36,880
Speaker 1: net gunned yet and you jump down. Yeah, and they

536
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 1: mug them, caller them. U take whatever samples we need

537
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 1: and they just call them loose? So where do you

538
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 1: steal from them? When you mug them? They're taking uh,

539
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:50,800
Speaker 1: everything we can. We're taking uh, you know, hair samples,

540
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:55,280
Speaker 1: genetic samples, a fecal um, getting weight, body weight, and

541
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:57,760
Speaker 1: all the normal sort of majors um, and then also

542
00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:03,520
Speaker 1: fitting them with your tags and collars. UM. So once

543
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:05,240
Speaker 1: we have these callers out, we can start figuring out

544
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 1: source of mortality. And since two thousand nine, like you said,

545
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:12,440
Speaker 1: this sort of precipitous decline that coincides almost perfectly with

546
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 1: wolf recovery, so we kind of all had an idea.

547
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 1: But um, once we had the you know, the smoking

548
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 1: gun so to speak, with the wolves, UM, we were

549
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 1: able to move forward with actually a wolf call. And

550
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:28,920
Speaker 1: in British Columbia they're using helicopters to kill wolves in

551
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 1: the recovery area. So I want to get to that

552
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 1: real bad But I'm gonna back up a couple of sticks.

553
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 1: How do you know when it died, we get a

554
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 1: mortality signal of animals. UM doesn't move for I think

555
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:46,479
Speaker 1: it's twenty four hours or maybe twelve hours. So if

556
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 1: a caller quits moving, UM it comes through in an

557
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 1: email you know, get whatever. Your smartphone goes off and

558
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 1: you know that you have a dead animal, and you know,

559
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 1: um GPS coordinates and you hike in there. Yeah, yeah,

560
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 1: are how far do you? How far? What's the kind

561
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:06,640
Speaker 1: of extremes or is it just easy because the helicopters

562
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 1: to go find the thing. Once you get the mortality signal,

563
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 1: we hike in. Um, we don't have the funding, just

564
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:15,560
Speaker 1: just top in a helicopter whenever we want, so we

565
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:17,480
Speaker 1: take off and walk in. It hasn't been too bad.

566
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 1: Most of We had one that was actually a vehicle

567
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 1: strike up on Highway three, so that was pretty easy

568
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:25,600
Speaker 1: four yards down the hill. Um. We had a wolf

569
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 1: mortality that was a bit of a hike. Um, you know,

570
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 1: and sort of that mid to high elevation stuff in

571
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 1: the summertime. Um, but a couple of miles. I mean,

572
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 1: these things, it's it's pretty good backcountry area. But there's

573
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 1: still a lot of roads around, a lot of trails. Um,

574
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:43,800
Speaker 1: it's pretty accessible. You get the mortality signal and you

575
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:46,280
Speaker 1: always want to go look. Oh yeah, now you're definitely

576
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 1: gonna go look. And what do you when you find

577
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:51,920
Speaker 1: the animal? What kind of how how obvious is it? Like?

578
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 1: What it? Does? It have to be a trained I

579
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:55,680
Speaker 1: or can can most anybody walk on and be like,

580
00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 1: oh I can tell what happened to this thing? Well,

581
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 1: I mean it doesn't have to be that my training,

582
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 1: I guess, but you shouldn't have an idea what to

583
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 1: look for. Can you tell a lion from a wolf? Oh? Yeah, yeah,

584
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:06,680
Speaker 1: you would tell a line from wolf. The problem up

585
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:09,560
Speaker 1: there is the bear population is so high. Um, they're

586
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:12,480
Speaker 1: almost always scavenged um, which is a concern. That's a

587
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:14,920
Speaker 1: grizzly bear recovery area also, so you know, you have

588
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 1: to kind of go in cautiously. You want to be

589
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 1: there's sort of a I don't know the last one

590
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:22,120
Speaker 1: we walked in. Um, there was wolves in the area,

591
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 1: there's bears in the areas, all this other stuff. So

592
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 1: you want to sneak in quietly enough that if there's

593
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 1: a wolf eating it, you can kill the wolf. Um.

594
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:30,080
Speaker 1: But if there's a bear on it, you want to

595
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:31,760
Speaker 1: be making enough noise to spook the thing away and

596
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:34,000
Speaker 1: don't get rushed if you, you know, show up ten

597
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:36,320
Speaker 1: yards from it all of a sudden. Um. So what

598
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 1: are you looking at when you look at the carcass

599
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 1: to tell if it was a predation. Well, lion kills

600
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:44,960
Speaker 1: are easy. They're generally buried, squirreled away up underneath the

601
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,480
Speaker 1: tree or something like that. Um, we'll talk it up

602
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:49,480
Speaker 1: against the tree and yeah, up against the rock bluff

603
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 1: or tree or whatever root wad something like that, and

604
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 1: they'll be covered with debris. Um, so what Um, they

605
00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:59,000
Speaker 1: usually go in behind the frenhhoulder and start starting the

606
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 1: lungs and stuff like that. If it's a lactating cow,

607
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:05,160
Speaker 1: they'll eat the utter in those areas. But um, you know,

608
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:06,960
Speaker 1: it just depends how long it's been there. They're gonna

609
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:10,239
Speaker 1: eat it until like it's scavenged. Generally a soft tissue. Yeah.

610
00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:12,960
Speaker 1: I heard a guy explain that, or his theory on

611
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:15,719
Speaker 1: that is that when they get on, they don't know

612
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:18,600
Speaker 1: how long they're going to have it before something gets it,

613
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:20,840
Speaker 1: and like they generally go for that stuff that you

614
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:23,600
Speaker 1: can just gobble down in a hurry, like longs liver,

615
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:26,719
Speaker 1: you know, and then work outward from the from the

616
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 1: easy stuff. Work, you know, work outward. Right, Yeah, that's

617
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 1: probably true. I don't know, I haven't really heard that

618
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:34,799
Speaker 1: theory or read anything on it, but makes sense, and

619
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:36,879
Speaker 1: it's just a guy making a guess about it. Sure,

620
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 1: you know, liver and stuff like that's pretty high nutritional value. Yeah, Um,

621
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 1: with twelve animals. Is it insanely hard to net gun

622
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:48,200
Speaker 1: these things? Like do they just know the game inside

623
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 1: and out? They've got the game pretty well figured out.

624
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:53,279
Speaker 1: So we net gun the heard last when it was

625
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:56,600
Speaker 1: and I wasn't on the aircraft that day. Um So

626
00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:58,560
Speaker 1: I was flying a fixed wing and we mark their

627
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:01,000
Speaker 1: location and then we call the locate, a helicopter comes

628
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 1: in and netguns them. Um it's another reason, you know,

629
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 1: he asked about why we put six colors out instead

630
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 1: of the whole herd or whatever else. There's um there's

631
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:13,359
Speaker 1: a risk when you capture the animals that you'll kill them.

632
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 1: Right there's you could experience the capture my operate if

633
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:18,400
Speaker 1: you have mug this thing and it just doesn't get

634
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 1: back to its feet, and then you have some explaining

635
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:23,279
Speaker 1: to do. Um. So we kind of figured we'd heard

636
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:25,560
Speaker 1: we'd do about a third of the herd if we could,

637
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 1: and we tried to focus on cows because that's where

638
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:31,920
Speaker 1: the best dad is going to come from. Why is that, Well,

639
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 1: cows are certainly more important to the population. They're the

640
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:39,400
Speaker 1: reproducers obviously, so and we're a little I don't know

641
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:41,719
Speaker 1: if you can call the herb bowl heavy. Necessarily, when

642
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:43,560
Speaker 1: there's like twelve animals, you're not really heavy and anything,

643
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:48,040
Speaker 1: you're light. Um. But we have probably a disproportionate number

644
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:49,759
Speaker 1: of bowls, so we really needed to know more about

645
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 1: the cows. Um, how do you tell I don't mean

646
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:55,880
Speaker 1: to keep harping on this, which is of interest to me.

647
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:57,760
Speaker 1: How do you tell? Uh, so you know a lion?

648
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:01,680
Speaker 1: How do you tell from a bear kill? Or do it? Doll?

649
00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:05,000
Speaker 1: Bears hit them hard? Bears don't really hit them hard. Um.

650
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 1: Bears could be a source of calf mortality, but we

651
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:10,160
Speaker 1: don't really know that. You know, if a calf dies,

652
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 1: there's no way for us to know unless the cow

653
00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:16,759
Speaker 1: goes with it. Um. So bears may or may not

654
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:18,480
Speaker 1: kill a few of the calves, but as far as

655
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:21,840
Speaker 1: a dark adult mortality, they're not really a primary source.

656
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:27,160
Speaker 1: Wolf kills are pretty spectacular. Um. The last wolf kill

657
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 1: we went into, it was just like a thirty hours

658
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:32,880
Speaker 1: old maybe, so we got the more signal. Um. You know,

659
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:34,640
Speaker 1: I keep my passport in my work truck and I've

660
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:36,239
Speaker 1: headed towards the border as soon as it came in,

661
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:39,439
Speaker 1: and so it's probably actually about twenty hours old. It's

662
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 1: fairly recent um and a group of what we think

663
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:45,400
Speaker 1: maybe five or six wolves had killed this small bowl,

664
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:49,320
Speaker 1: and three or four of us went in. Um the

665
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:52,239
Speaker 1: animals were gone, and we found the caller with a

666
00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:54,840
Speaker 1: pretty good scrap of the hide, maybe six ft of

667
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 1: the hide, but um, not much meat attach to that

668
00:36:57,440 --> 00:36:59,560
Speaker 1: from three of the legs and one of the antlers,

669
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:03,200
Speaker 1: and skull was all crushed apart of course. Um. But

670
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 1: we put I mean I put all of the caribou

671
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:08,319
Speaker 1: remains in my backpack and walked out. And this thing

672
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:10,960
Speaker 1: was fresh like it didn't it didn't smell bad. It

673
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:14,759
Speaker 1: was like it was fresh. So they when wolves kill it,

674
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:17,160
Speaker 1: you know, it's they don't leave a lot. And then

675
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 1: they're eating the ribs, they're eating most of the bones.

676
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:23,719
Speaker 1: Wo man um. And the head's crushed kind of I

677
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:26,560
Speaker 1: want to he said, of course, because they're they're Yeah,

678
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:28,919
Speaker 1: you said, of course, so they're going after the brain

679
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:32,399
Speaker 1: matter and yeahs and yeah, I don't chew on the head.

680
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:36,600
Speaker 1: I've left. I've come back to where we've killed elk

681
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:40,080
Speaker 1: after grizzlies got on what you what we left, and

682
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:45,600
Speaker 1: you'll find some balls of hair and then the back

683
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:48,880
Speaker 1: of the skull. Yeah, it's pretty tough back there. Everything

684
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:50,880
Speaker 1: like the frame and the area around the hole that

685
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:53,120
Speaker 1: your spinal cord goes in. You'll find like a soft

686
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 1: ball sized hunk of that or not to eat the

687
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:59,920
Speaker 1: entire face off that thing. Yep ye pass bone fragments

688
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:02,399
Speaker 1: all over the place, right and you know you find

689
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:04,719
Speaker 1: the room and content with the guts are gone, and

690
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:06,520
Speaker 1: you find a big one like someone empty out a

691
00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:10,919
Speaker 1: bag of lawnmowre clippings. They ate the stomach but left

692
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 1: the yep. Um, So if we found a you know,

693
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:17,160
Speaker 1: a more complete carcass. The one we found that was

694
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:20,360
Speaker 1: struck on the highway was fed on by wolves and

695
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:23,279
Speaker 1: also had a black bear on it when we showed up. Um,

696
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:25,360
Speaker 1: so we're throwing sticks at that thing, trying to scare

697
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:27,799
Speaker 1: him away, and so I got hit by a car. Yeah,

698
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:31,640
Speaker 1: wolves came, found it, ate some, a bear came, started

699
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:33,920
Speaker 1: eating some more. And how much time had passed? Um

700
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:37,920
Speaker 1: one day? I mean this is a predator rich environment.

701
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:42,839
Speaker 1: So it's like four d yards off the main highway. Um,

702
00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:45,680
Speaker 1: you know, we found as much scrap as we can.

703
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 1: We only found one premortal bite mark, so probably killed

704
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:53,279
Speaker 1: by some you know, finished off, I guess so you

705
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:56,319
Speaker 1: can analyze the hide and tell what bites that were

706
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:58,840
Speaker 1: alive and bites that were not. Sure. Yeah, you know,

707
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:01,560
Speaker 1: if there's bruising on bite mark, you generally can kind

708
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:04,120
Speaker 1: of guess that it was alive when it was you know,

709
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:06,840
Speaker 1: chewed on. Yeah, I heard that because I remember this

710
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:10,000
Speaker 1: guy up in Alaska gold miner I think it's a

711
00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:14,840
Speaker 1: plast or miner found a uh a step bison, I

712
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 1: think bison ladder frons he used to call it. I

713
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:20,279
Speaker 1: can't remember which one, but like a longhorn bison, and

714
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:23,520
Speaker 1: it had been preyed on by an American lion, like

715
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:25,719
Speaker 1: a lion species that used to live in the Great

716
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:29,279
Speaker 1: Plains and up into Alaska. And they could tell by

717
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:31,760
Speaker 1: the this thing was so well preserved in the perma frost.

718
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:35,080
Speaker 1: They could tell where it had been bit before it died.

719
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:38,879
Speaker 1: Bruising was still hit it on the base of the neck, yeah,

720
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:40,759
Speaker 1: because they had like bled there and the rest of

721
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:44,839
Speaker 1: the body where the chewed hadn't bled through. So when

722
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:46,799
Speaker 1: you can only pack out a six foot chunka hide,

723
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:48,880
Speaker 1: you can tell that you can tell that kind of

724
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 1: stuff from it. Well, we're looking at it in the

725
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:54,480
Speaker 1: field and trying to make a decision out there. But yeah,

726
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:56,759
Speaker 1: we're gonna pack it out anyway we get if it's

727
00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:59,319
Speaker 1: not a colored animal. You know, we found two dead

728
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:02,440
Speaker 1: caribou or earlier this month. Um a hiker reported him

729
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:05,359
Speaker 1: and one of the tribal biologist from the Kouteney tribe

730
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:08,600
Speaker 1: hiked up and gathered those kill those. We have no

731
00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:12,239
Speaker 1: idea people, No, probably not. Is poaching a big problem

732
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:14,200
Speaker 1: with those caribous. It hasn't been in a long time.

733
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:17,040
Speaker 1: Most people that hunt up there, no, and their signs

734
00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:21,719
Speaker 1: and you know, educational materials scattered out in the woods. Um, now,

735
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:24,920
Speaker 1: it wasn't poached. It was a really nice bowl, actually

736
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:27,960
Speaker 1: a big set antlers still laying up there intact um.

737
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:30,960
Speaker 1: But no saying what happened to it? No, no idea.

738
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:34,160
Speaker 1: There's two of them near one another, which maybe makes

739
00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:35,840
Speaker 1: you think there's a predator work in that area, but

740
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:39,160
Speaker 1: it's anybody's guess. And then tell me you get the

741
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 1: number you had collared at one time. We had six

742
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:43,719
Speaker 1: at one time, and there was how many alive at

743
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:45,759
Speaker 1: that time? I think they were seventeen and they herd

744
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:49,719
Speaker 1: then and so the four that died with have you

745
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:52,399
Speaker 1: continuously collared throughout that period, or you just had six

746
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:54,640
Speaker 1: and now you have to write, Yeah, we set we

747
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:57,279
Speaker 1: put six out at one time, like two years ago.

748
00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 1: One of those callers has died and three of those

749
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:03,880
Speaker 1: cariboo have died, So we have two callers still working

750
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:06,400
Speaker 1: for us, and then the three that died won't get

751
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:08,120
Speaker 1: hit by a car. One got hit by a car

752
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:13,919
Speaker 1: and UM to re wolf mortalities and is the risk

753
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:16,760
Speaker 1: just too high at this point with the twelve animal

754
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:20,719
Speaker 1: group to try to call her anything else? Um, We've

755
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:24,319
Speaker 1: talked about callering some more. UM, we're trying to put

756
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:26,120
Speaker 1: together a program. We're trying to come up with a

757
00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:28,600
Speaker 1: plan to you know, augment the herd and do some

758
00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:30,200
Speaker 1: other stuff. And we want to do everything kind of

759
00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:32,080
Speaker 1: at once, so we're not handling his animals more than

760
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:35,279
Speaker 1: we have to. I got you. You don't wanna be

761
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:37,440
Speaker 1: out her asked them all the time, right, and you know,

762
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:39,880
Speaker 1: like you asked. They do get smart about the helicopter

763
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 1: when they you know, animals that have been captured by

764
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:44,600
Speaker 1: helicopter figure that out pretty quickly. And they're in tough

765
00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:47,719
Speaker 1: enough country that UM, if they really put their mind

766
00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 1: to it, they could get away. From helicopter easily. Um.

767
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:54,920
Speaker 1: I got a buddy who is a waterfowl researcher, and

768
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:57,160
Speaker 1: he did a lot of capture netting for birds, and

769
00:41:57,239 --> 00:42:01,040
Speaker 1: he was very uh always very free of killing the

770
00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:07,160
Speaker 1: birds and his count he wasn't getting enough birds, he

771
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:09,680
Speaker 1: wasn't getting data on enough birds. And he was telling

772
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:12,200
Speaker 1: me how his advisor at the time said, if you're

773
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 1: not killing birds, you're not working hard enough. I mean,

774
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:18,320
Speaker 1: like get out there and get data. But with this,

775
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:21,160
Speaker 1: with the population, the size you're talking about, it's one

776
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:24,759
Speaker 1: thing if you're doing mallards right, if you kill you know,

777
00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:28,279
Speaker 1: eight percent of the population with one bad shot, you've

778
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:30,480
Speaker 1: got some explaining. Yeah. I imagine if you guys, if

779
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:32,319
Speaker 1: you guys had a mortality would make it would make

780
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:37,279
Speaker 1: the news probably, Yeah. Yeah. So is it growing right

781
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:41,360
Speaker 1: now or shrinking? It's pretty steady right now. Well, I

782
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:44,600
Speaker 1: mean whatever, we were at fifteen a few years ago

783
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:47,160
Speaker 1: and we're at twelve now. So, um, we have some

784
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:50,200
Speaker 1: documented reproduction this year. We've got some calves on trail camera,

785
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 1: so that's good. Um. The only real complete census we

786
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:57,000
Speaker 1: gets to during the wintertime, like March will fly and

787
00:42:57,480 --> 00:42:59,759
Speaker 1: count the animals again. But right now you know that

788
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:03,160
Speaker 1: twelve don't stay together, They sprinkle out across the landscape

789
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:06,719
Speaker 1: in ones and twos. Yeah, so any real sense this

790
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:10,880
Speaker 1: this time of years impossible? What's explained augmentation? How that

791
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:15,719
Speaker 1: would work? Well? Hopefully, UM, it'll be, like I said,

792
00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:17,920
Speaker 1: a soft release. We'll bring some animals in from one

793
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:21,480
Speaker 1: of the British Columbia herds that's nearby. Um, hopefully we'll

794
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:22,920
Speaker 1: get animals that kind of know how to use that

795
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:26,799
Speaker 1: landscape they stay high in the wintertime. Um. If we don't,

796
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:29,359
Speaker 1: we I would still want to augument augment. Even if

797
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:31,399
Speaker 1: we had animals that maybe didn't know that routine, we'd

798
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:34,320
Speaker 1: hope that we could train them. Um. You know this

799
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:39,359
Speaker 1: are the people who who the source heard, the people

800
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:42,240
Speaker 1: whose jurisdiction at is. Are they open to the idea

801
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:45,160
Speaker 1: of you taking of some animals coming from their herds

802
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:48,719
Speaker 1: to augment. They're not too excited about it. We've made

803
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:51,800
Speaker 1: a formal request. We're working on working out details on

804
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:54,960
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. But herds all across that southern

805
00:43:55,239 --> 00:43:57,120
Speaker 1: part of the Selkirks are in a decline. That's what

806
00:43:57,160 --> 00:43:58,840
Speaker 1: I can imagine. So someone's like, just because I got

807
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:00,920
Speaker 1: a hunter doesn't mean I feel like I got animals

808
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:04,080
Speaker 1: to spare right. Um, that herd has declined, you know,

809
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:06,680
Speaker 1: the main herd of whatever we call this a suburb,

810
00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 1: the main herd has declined pretty significantly. There's efforts going on. Um,

811
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:14,200
Speaker 1: there's maternal penning efforts going on in two different places

812
00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:17,640
Speaker 1: in Canada where they're capturing cows that are pregnant and

813
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:19,640
Speaker 1: putting them in a pen and trying to rear them,

814
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:23,239
Speaker 1: rear the calves to like three months four months old

815
00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:25,000
Speaker 1: before they turn them loose, because to give them an

816
00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:28,320
Speaker 1: enhanced chance that they'll survive, because their highest chance of

817
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:31,600
Speaker 1: getting killed is early in life. And um, those wolves

818
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:37,040
Speaker 1: cows uh up there, Well, they've done a pretty serious

819
00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:39,680
Speaker 1: wolf removal in those areas. So where they're turning those

820
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 1: animals loose, they've done it's serious wolf removal. And um

821
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:48,759
Speaker 1: that has helped. Uh. A lion actually killed like four

822
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:51,680
Speaker 1: animals at one time up there, right after the lease.

823
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 1: So you look at this weird spike in the data

824
00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:55,359
Speaker 1: and it's like you got to kind of put an

825
00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:58,560
Speaker 1: asterisk next to that. That's something that maybe we didn't

826
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:01,200
Speaker 1: know we could have avoided, but now we know it's

827
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:04,040
Speaker 1: probably not gonna happen again. Do you get involved in

828
00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:08,560
Speaker 1: the predator control? Uh? Not really. UM, I have hounds

829
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:12,600
Speaker 1: if if a if a lion killed a caribou, I

830
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:15,440
Speaker 1: would be up there with the dogs. That hasn't happened

831
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:17,720
Speaker 1: since we put the callers out, but I would obviously

832
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:19,440
Speaker 1: drop what I was doing to get the dogs up

833
00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:21,640
Speaker 1: there and take care of that. So you're a lion hunter, right,

834
00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:24,920
Speaker 1: Can I come with you lion hunt? Yeah? You had

835
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:27,719
Speaker 1: some of my lion last year in Missoula. That was

836
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:31,440
Speaker 1: your lion. Yeah, Nick Clara. When I joined the little contest,

837
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:40,040
Speaker 1: I didn't even get a participation award, so I remember that.

838
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:46,080
Speaker 1: So when um, so you hunt lions, but you haven't

839
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:49,200
Speaker 1: personally gone after the lions that were after the caribou, Well,

840
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:55,600
Speaker 1: um like, whose job is that? Nobody has that job necessarily? UM.

841
00:45:56,840 --> 00:45:58,839
Speaker 1: I work for the outfit orup at Priest Lake um

842
00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:03,200
Speaker 1: Selkirk Guiding Outfitting as the area that goes all the

843
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:06,960
Speaker 1: way to the Canadian border, and we target those animals

844
00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:10,080
Speaker 1: early in the season, but as the snow gets too deep,

845
00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:12,400
Speaker 1: it ends up being a thirty mile snowmobile ride just

846
00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:14,840
Speaker 1: to get to the you know, any good areas. So

847
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:16,360
Speaker 1: early in the season we try to take out some

848
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:20,600
Speaker 1: animals UM that are in the that are potential caribou

849
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:23,719
Speaker 1: predator in the caribou cover recoveryswn right. But that's completely

850
00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:27,520
Speaker 1: just your own legal over to counter lion hunting have

851
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:31,520
Speaker 1: nothing to do with with government sanctioned predator control. Now

852
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:33,480
Speaker 1: there's none of that. There has been some you know,

853
00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:36,759
Speaker 1: there's no female quota up in the Panhandle, there's no UM.

854
00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:39,719
Speaker 1: You know, anybody can buy a tag over the counter

855
00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:41,680
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff that you can run hounds in Idaho.

856
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:44,960
Speaker 1: You you can't do that in Washington. UM. In British

857
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:48,239
Speaker 1: Columbia they've I think they've allowed hound under to take

858
00:46:48,239 --> 00:46:50,279
Speaker 1: two cats per winter or whatever. But it's just this

859
00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:53,520
Speaker 1: remote it's about country stuff. It's tough to access UM.

860
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:57,920
Speaker 1: You know, in the wintertime, you the cats moved down low,

861
00:46:58,000 --> 00:46:59,560
Speaker 1: the caribou stay a pie. You could kill a cat

862
00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:02,000
Speaker 1: that may or may not ever travel to that high country.

863
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:03,560
Speaker 1: So you really don't know if you're getting the right

864
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:06,640
Speaker 1: cat or not. And is the wolf control in the

865
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:10,880
Speaker 1: Let me get this straight first, in the US, so

866
00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:12,680
Speaker 1: I know that these animals are on the boarder moving

867
00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:15,680
Speaker 1: back and forth. But in the US portion of the

868
00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:19,480
Speaker 1: range or in like what we'd call immediately potential range,

869
00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:22,520
Speaker 1: like a place that could very well maybe next month,

870
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:25,520
Speaker 1: might have a care we want it is the US

871
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:30,520
Speaker 1: doing in a like in a government way, are they

872
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:35,360
Speaker 1: doing predator control? No, to assist cariboo? But Canada is

873
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:40,759
Speaker 1: Canada is and what what is the argument against doing

874
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:42,960
Speaker 1: it to facilitate the come back a caribou in the

875
00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:47,200
Speaker 1: US like predator protectionists or what is it? Remember you're

876
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:51,400
Speaker 1: dealing with um. Wildlife is managed by the states now,

877
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:53,880
Speaker 1: So we have these we have two different jurisdictions. There

878
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:56,120
Speaker 1: are actually three if you can't Canada. Right. So you've

879
00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:59,759
Speaker 1: got North Idaho where wolf finding is liberalized. UM. But

880
00:47:59,840 --> 00:48:02,920
Speaker 1: it's hard, it's thick, it's steep. Um. There's a couple

881
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:04,800
Speaker 1: of trappers up there that are finding some success. But

882
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:07,600
Speaker 1: there's no government effort. There's no bounty, there's no anything

883
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:11,680
Speaker 1: like that. UM. Washington, the wolves are still a protected species.

884
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:14,279
Speaker 1: We can't trap them, we can't hunt them. UM. So

885
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:18,520
Speaker 1: those wolves on that side of the border safe. Um.

886
00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:24,279
Speaker 1: There's no real government UM control effort. There's no like

887
00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:28,160
Speaker 1: I said, bounties anything else. Idaho has done what it

888
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:34,480
Speaker 1: could with um liberalizing the seasons. But yeah, I don't

889
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:36,760
Speaker 1: think we're going to see any kind of government effort

890
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:40,839
Speaker 1: to kill wolves in the States. It's it's just too

891
00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:45,320
Speaker 1: contentious of an issue with big groups. Yeah, but you

892
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:47,600
Speaker 1: feel that there is a convincing case to make beer,

893
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:50,680
Speaker 1: there is a case to make that that would be

894
00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:54,440
Speaker 1: one of the steps. I'm not saying an advocators that

895
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:56,799
Speaker 1: would be one of the steps towards recovering caribou. It's

896
00:48:56,960 --> 00:48:59,600
Speaker 1: it is a very important step. And it's been interesting,

897
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:02,839
Speaker 1: um watching people kind of come around as they learn

898
00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:07,480
Speaker 1: more about this, the caribou situation. And we've had, you know,

899
00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:11,960
Speaker 1: conservation groups even not come out with like raving support

900
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:14,800
Speaker 1: of the wolf call, but like saying, we've recognize that

901
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:17,200
Speaker 1: it has to happen. We don't like it, but to

902
00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:20,319
Speaker 1: save this species, we know that that's part of the deal. Um.

903
00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:22,480
Speaker 1: So if we can get groups even to come on

904
00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:25,480
Speaker 1: with that kind of support, that's fine. Um, we're not

905
00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:27,359
Speaker 1: asking for their money. We don't expect him to pay

906
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:31,560
Speaker 1: for the wolf removal, but they need to recognize that

907
00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:33,360
Speaker 1: if we're going to save cariboo, it's gonna have to

908
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:36,440
Speaker 1: be sort of a predator free zone for a little while. Now,

909
00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:38,600
Speaker 1: let me ask you a questions will probably make you uncomfortable,

910
00:49:39,239 --> 00:49:42,680
Speaker 1: maybe not. Let's say God came down from outer space

911
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:48,480
Speaker 1: and said, you have ab flute authority. You are the

912
00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:54,920
Speaker 1: cariboos are okay, and I'm tasking you with recovering cariboun

913
00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:59,279
Speaker 1: and lower forty eight. If you fail, I will kill

914
00:49:59,560 --> 00:50:03,120
Speaker 1: every human on Earth. What are the things that you

915
00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:05,800
Speaker 1: would do? And you have three things? You can do

916
00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:11,359
Speaker 1: three things? Okay? Well, or everyone on Earth dies. Well,

917
00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:19,279
Speaker 1: they're they're they're multiprogued. It's like a dream. They're a

918
00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:22,719
Speaker 1: nightmare there. It's a multi pronged approach. So we would

919
00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:25,480
Speaker 1: have to supplement the herd. We absolutely have to bring

920
00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:27,840
Speaker 1: new animals in or we're gonna start seeing genetic drift

921
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:32,360
Speaker 1: and issues. Genetically, it's where you get this small isolated population.

922
00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:37,120
Speaker 1: They basically become so inbred that their productivity falls. So

923
00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:39,920
Speaker 1: we would start saying that we have to bring animals in.

924
00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:42,400
Speaker 1: And if I could just snap my fingers and like

925
00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:45,960
Speaker 1: get animals, I'd get all of them. And the complications

926
00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:49,319
Speaker 1: there are you want to draw animals who are coming

927
00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:51,800
Speaker 1: from a similar habitat type and know how to utilize

928
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:55,719
Speaker 1: the environment. However, all of those animals are coming from

929
00:50:55,760 --> 00:51:00,880
Speaker 1: herds that themselves are in questionable condition, right, that's right? Um,

930
00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:04,960
Speaker 1: so I guess if I could, let's let's get rid

931
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:07,280
Speaker 1: of your situation and just make a more perfect situation,

932
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:09,520
Speaker 1: like if I had unlimited money and like support from

933
00:51:10,120 --> 00:51:14,040
Speaker 1: and everyone doesn't have to die. That's right, I've got

934
00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:16,680
Speaker 1: got on my side. But but nobody has to die

935
00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:18,560
Speaker 1: in this Okay. So yeah, you're just like you have

936
00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:21,759
Speaker 1: like unlimited you have unlimited fund right, So in a

937
00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:24,279
Speaker 1: perfect world, um, we could get our hands on a

938
00:51:24,320 --> 00:51:26,480
Speaker 1: handful of cariboo from all of these groups for a

939
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:28,879
Speaker 1: couple of years, how many you know, if we put

940
00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:31,680
Speaker 1: I think if we put probably ten a year for

941
00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:33,759
Speaker 1: a few years out there. Oh, did you say that

942
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:38,239
Speaker 1: you're essentially willing to borrow them? We would we would

943
00:51:38,280 --> 00:51:40,920
Speaker 1: be willing to borrow them once we recover. If we

944
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:43,000
Speaker 1: could get if we could make that herd into a

945
00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:45,840
Speaker 1: source population, that would be fantastic. Obviously that's going to

946
00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:47,640
Speaker 1: be down the road a little ways. But we were,

947
00:51:48,239 --> 00:51:50,800
Speaker 1: like I said, we were on a pretty strong upward trajectory.

948
00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:54,520
Speaker 1: We were going from you know, twenty six animals to

949
00:51:54,640 --> 00:51:56,759
Speaker 1: forty six animals in the course of you know, half

950
00:51:56,760 --> 00:51:58,839
Speaker 1: a decade or something. So we were doing really well.

951
00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:02,239
Speaker 1: Kentucky can sucky. You look at their elk population. They

952
00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:05,120
Speaker 1: got elk from other states and now they will lead

953
00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:08,719
Speaker 1: source heard for eastern elk population. And look at isn't

954
00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:12,239
Speaker 1: the same case with the now Nevak muskox. Yeah, but

955
00:52:12,360 --> 00:52:16,040
Speaker 1: that's kind of confused because that's yeah, but yes, yes, right,

956
00:52:16,239 --> 00:52:20,799
Speaker 1: so we've experimental population turn lois and and it later

957
00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:23,719
Speaker 1: becomes a source for for re stocking. Or we've got yeah,

958
00:52:23,719 --> 00:52:26,080
Speaker 1: we've got big horn cheap and the same area as

959
00:52:26,200 --> 00:52:29,000
Speaker 1: the as the caribou that are a source population and

960
00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:31,360
Speaker 1: have been for years. Um so you can so you

961
00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:33,920
Speaker 1: can borrow. Just letting everybody know he can borrow the

962
00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:36,640
Speaker 1: animals and give them back later. Yeah, it's a high

963
00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:39,320
Speaker 1: interest loan, we get that. But um so if we

964
00:52:39,360 --> 00:52:42,680
Speaker 1: take these animals, we could then do our maternal pen

965
00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:45,600
Speaker 1: We'd capture some of our resident animals, um let them

966
00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:49,160
Speaker 1: cav with the and you know, let all the cows

967
00:52:49,200 --> 00:52:52,160
Speaker 1: have together all of our augmentation animals are our resident animals,

968
00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:54,920
Speaker 1: and give them three or four months in the pen

969
00:52:55,080 --> 00:52:57,799
Speaker 1: to sort of commingle no one another whatever and kick

970
00:52:57,880 --> 00:53:01,680
Speaker 1: him loose. And um, recognizing that the augmentation animals are

971
00:53:01,719 --> 00:53:05,040
Speaker 1: going to have probably higher mortality. Um, but we'd have

972
00:53:05,120 --> 00:53:06,800
Speaker 1: collars on all of them. Once you're handling them, you

973
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:09,120
Speaker 1: may as well put a collar higher mortalities that they

974
00:53:09,160 --> 00:53:10,960
Speaker 1: don't know the ins and out. Yeah, yeah, you're just

975
00:53:11,040 --> 00:53:13,680
Speaker 1: gonna have that. And that's we recognize that's probably going

976
00:53:13,719 --> 00:53:15,920
Speaker 1: to be part of the deal. But um, even if

977
00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:20,120
Speaker 1: you had you know, se mortality, that'd be fantastic survival,

978
00:53:20,160 --> 00:53:23,600
Speaker 1: that'd be fantastic. Um. So if we could do that

979
00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:26,680
Speaker 1: for several years, we could get this trajectory back. And

980
00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:29,759
Speaker 1: you know, like I said, the habitat protections are in place.

981
00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:32,640
Speaker 1: If we continued with the wolf control, and you know,

982
00:53:33,320 --> 00:53:34,560
Speaker 1: I don't know if we need to ramp up the

983
00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:37,560
Speaker 1: cougar control or anything else. Bears aren't really a big problem,

984
00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:40,520
Speaker 1: but um, you know, keep kind of doing what we're doing.

985
00:53:40,719 --> 00:53:46,880
Speaker 1: We just need animals, all right. Do you remember do

986
00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:53,439
Speaker 1: you remember long ago when they we're trying to really

987
00:53:53,560 --> 00:53:58,960
Speaker 1: they're trying to recover the Florida panther. Okay, and there

988
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:00,719
Speaker 1: was a period time when people thought the Florida panther

989
00:54:00,880 --> 00:54:04,160
Speaker 1: was gone and some lion hunter down No, a guy

990
00:54:04,280 --> 00:54:06,320
Speaker 1: down there kept saying, no, there's some still here. This

991
00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:09,640
Speaker 1: is interesting story. H a guy down there and says, no,

992
00:54:09,760 --> 00:54:11,879
Speaker 1: there's still some around. People like, oh, bullshit, they're all gone.

993
00:54:12,520 --> 00:54:16,600
Speaker 1: He goes and find some lion hunter from Arizona, has

994
00:54:16,680 --> 00:54:20,960
Speaker 1: him come out to Florida and they start pounding lions

995
00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:24,799
Speaker 1: and people are like, jeez stop. He goes, just stop

996
00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:26,880
Speaker 1: telling me there's none here, because here's a pile of

997
00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:32,160
Speaker 1: dead ones. You know later. Um, they wanted to recover,

998
00:54:32,200 --> 00:54:34,359
Speaker 1: and they tried all this kind of stuff, and there

999
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:35,960
Speaker 1: was a lot of and some people came up with

1000
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:41,359
Speaker 1: this idea like, okay, what is the Florida panther? Like, sure,

1001
00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:43,719
Speaker 1: we're gonna lose the Florida panther, but let's try to

1002
00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:47,640
Speaker 1: least save the idea of panthers in Florida. And what

1003
00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:49,800
Speaker 1: they wanted to do was let's just go get some

1004
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:53,920
Speaker 1: from the Rocky Mountains. It's like it's the same species.

1005
00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:59,200
Speaker 1: They they are like there their offspringers sexually viable, right right.

1006
00:54:59,600 --> 00:55:01,840
Speaker 1: But some you are so fixated on saving the Florida

1007
00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:05,360
Speaker 1: panther that they were willing to let panthers in Florida

1008
00:55:05,440 --> 00:55:10,879
Speaker 1: go away. If they couldn't save like that population, why

1009
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:16,279
Speaker 1: not go get a whole shipload of him from Alaska

1010
00:55:18,320 --> 00:55:24,400
Speaker 1: and just cross your fingers, like you're down to fifteen

1011
00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:34,680
Speaker 1: twelve embarrassing, it's embarrassing you're down to twelve. Like, how

1012
00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:37,400
Speaker 1: let's say five years from now, you're out. Not just

1013
00:55:37,520 --> 00:55:39,080
Speaker 1: I'm not just saying like you with like it's your fault,

1014
00:55:39,080 --> 00:55:41,400
Speaker 1: but five years from now, people involved in this effort

1015
00:55:41,480 --> 00:55:44,400
Speaker 1: are still going. Please, how about a few carib you

1016
00:55:44,520 --> 00:55:47,440
Speaker 1: over here? Like what is the argument being, Like, Okay,

1017
00:55:47,560 --> 00:55:51,279
Speaker 1: let's do Plan B. It's not as good, but it's

1018
00:55:51,440 --> 00:55:57,239
Speaker 1: viable that we could go get two hundred of the things. Well,

1019
00:55:57,320 --> 00:55:58,600
Speaker 1: like I said, I don't know if we can train

1020
00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:02,000
Speaker 1: other you know, like if we could go back to whatever,

1021
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:06,400
Speaker 1: Newfoundland or someplace and get a bunch of mountain Cariboo

1022
00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:09,319
Speaker 1: that kind of know the steep landscape that aren't huge migrators.

1023
00:56:09,640 --> 00:56:10,880
Speaker 1: I mean that would be the big problem. Right, you

1024
00:56:10,960 --> 00:56:15,759
Speaker 1: drop a bunch of these and they're just gonna split,

1025
00:56:15,800 --> 00:56:19,359
Speaker 1: They're gonna cruise someplace. Um, so then your money's gone. Yeah,

1026
00:56:19,760 --> 00:56:21,920
Speaker 1: your money's gone to carry who who knows what right

1027
00:56:22,239 --> 00:56:24,400
Speaker 1: down an idole and you've burned a ton of like

1028
00:56:24,640 --> 00:56:29,160
Speaker 1: social capital to right you just like you played your hand. Yeah, yeah,

1029
00:56:29,280 --> 00:56:31,560
Speaker 1: So you want to try to do something that's gonna work. Um,

1030
00:56:32,680 --> 00:56:34,279
Speaker 1: I mean I knew there was a good answer for it,

1031
00:56:34,480 --> 00:56:38,120
Speaker 1: but it's just something that you know, Yeah, that's a

1032
00:56:38,320 --> 00:56:40,719
Speaker 1: that's a tough one. Um. If we got animals, like

1033
00:56:40,760 --> 00:56:43,200
Speaker 1: I said, there are other Mountain Cariboo that that dropped

1034
00:56:43,360 --> 00:56:47,000
Speaker 1: to lower elevation in the winter, there's a possible possibility

1035
00:56:47,040 --> 00:56:50,439
Speaker 1: that we could sort of change that behavior. But that's

1036
00:56:50,760 --> 00:56:52,640
Speaker 1: that's a pretty strong instinct for some of them. Like

1037
00:56:52,640 --> 00:56:54,640
Speaker 1: I said, we're just going to experience mortality if we

1038
00:56:54,680 --> 00:56:56,920
Speaker 1: do that, and people just need to recognize that, Like

1039
00:56:57,040 --> 00:57:00,960
Speaker 1: if we get mortality, that's still fift percent survival. That's

1040
00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:04,560
Speaker 1: something that's you know, additive to the herd. So it

1041
00:57:04,719 --> 00:57:06,600
Speaker 1: really seems like the best thing to do is try

1042
00:57:06,640 --> 00:57:09,359
Speaker 1: to get some of these ones from a bit north, right,

1043
00:57:09,440 --> 00:57:10,840
Speaker 1: we should go and get some of those ones we

1044
00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:14,880
Speaker 1: know about. Cal got a horse trailer. I like, like,

1045
00:57:15,040 --> 00:57:21,280
Speaker 1: I'm down horse trailer a biology. Yeah, they used to

1046
00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:24,960
Speaker 1: be do you remember never mind it's such a weird digression. Um, okay,

1047
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:28,400
Speaker 1: what else? You still have powers? Ultimate power? That's it.

1048
00:57:28,520 --> 00:57:31,040
Speaker 1: It's a short list. Yeah, I don't We don't need magic.

1049
00:57:31,160 --> 00:57:35,360
Speaker 1: We just need some animals. Said, with habitat protections are

1050
00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:38,200
Speaker 1: pretty much in place, I would do a highway like

1051
00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:42,080
Speaker 1: a wildlife overpass on Highway three because animals like they

1052
00:57:42,080 --> 00:57:44,680
Speaker 1: flip with that highway all the time. There's actually I've

1053
00:57:44,720 --> 00:57:48,640
Speaker 1: got a fantastic photo somebody emailed me of an awesome

1054
00:57:48,720 --> 00:57:51,600
Speaker 1: bowl caribou and two cows and a calf and they're

1055
00:57:51,640 --> 00:57:53,440
Speaker 1: standing on the shoulder of the road. They're lick. They

1056
00:57:53,480 --> 00:57:56,440
Speaker 1: still use salt on the highway. I would change that. Yeah.

1057
00:57:56,600 --> 00:57:59,400
Speaker 1: So they're down there looking and there's the cariboo warning

1058
00:57:59,480 --> 00:58:02,840
Speaker 1: sign and in the background like there's a semi bearing

1059
00:58:02,920 --> 00:58:05,040
Speaker 1: down on him. I'm like, oh my gosh, this is

1060
00:58:05,200 --> 00:58:09,000
Speaker 1: just a fantastic photo. Shows all these problems. Um. So yeah,

1061
00:58:09,120 --> 00:58:11,760
Speaker 1: if we had a wild life wild life over I

1062
00:58:11,800 --> 00:58:13,560
Speaker 1: know you mentioned over I was reading the piece about

1063
00:58:13,600 --> 00:58:19,440
Speaker 1: overpasses and underpasses, and when I've done the underpasses, they

1064
00:58:19,480 --> 00:58:23,840
Speaker 1: found a correlation between animals willingness to use it. Uh

1065
00:58:24,080 --> 00:58:28,400
Speaker 1: with the steepness of the walls. They found that when

1066
00:58:28,440 --> 00:58:32,400
Speaker 1: walls got to a certain pitch and they couldn't see,

1067
00:58:33,920 --> 00:58:36,280
Speaker 1: they did not want to go through that thing. The

1068
00:58:36,360 --> 00:58:39,160
Speaker 1: ones where they pitched the walls out enough where he

1069
00:58:39,200 --> 00:58:41,440
Speaker 1: didn't feel like he was going beneath a ledge, there

1070
00:58:41,440 --> 00:58:44,880
Speaker 1: were more willing to use it, and they preferred overpasses

1071
00:58:44,920 --> 00:58:49,800
Speaker 1: to underpasses. Really interesting visibility. It's a tough sell to

1072
00:58:49,880 --> 00:58:53,040
Speaker 1: be like, hey man, go into this here box canyon right,

1073
00:58:54,600 --> 00:58:59,000
Speaker 1: especially for it on the genetic side of things, UM, like,

1074
00:58:59,280 --> 00:59:02,000
Speaker 1: what do you think you're timeline is with your You

1075
00:59:02,080 --> 00:59:11,400
Speaker 1: got twelve incredibly valuable careby right now twelve? Like, what's

1076
00:59:11,440 --> 00:59:13,920
Speaker 1: your time frame? When are you like, we need new

1077
00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:17,960
Speaker 1: genetics in this herd by this time or you know else,

1078
00:59:18,280 --> 00:59:21,800
Speaker 1: everybody's going to be the slow cousin. We I don't

1079
00:59:21,840 --> 00:59:26,600
Speaker 1: think anybody's really Um came up with a definite timeline

1080
00:59:26,640 --> 00:59:28,880
Speaker 1: that way. Obviously, we're trying to just stop the bleeding

1081
00:59:28,920 --> 00:59:31,160
Speaker 1: from this herd, right like genetics or because it was

1082
00:59:31,240 --> 00:59:35,640
Speaker 1: sixty one, it was forty six, maybe up to fifty,

1083
00:59:35,640 --> 00:59:39,240
Speaker 1: I can't remember for sure. In two thousand nine, Um,

1084
00:59:39,720 --> 00:59:42,360
Speaker 1: when did you come on? I started working on the

1085
00:59:42,400 --> 00:59:46,640
Speaker 1: Cariboo project don't half a decade ago, five years or so. Yeah,

1086
00:59:46,760 --> 00:59:49,240
Speaker 1: so you've seen a lot of this playout. Yeah, yeah,

1087
00:59:49,360 --> 00:59:53,000
Speaker 1: from the basic wolf recovery onward. It seemed like the

1088
00:59:53,040 --> 00:59:57,560
Speaker 1: bad years. So you wouldn't in this and playing god.

1089
00:59:58,160 --> 01:00:00,919
Speaker 1: You want more animals and he wasn't playing God's giving

1090
01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:06,000
Speaker 1: him the power. Sorry sorry, extension of um, but you

1091
01:00:06,160 --> 01:00:09,880
Speaker 1: have uh, you have more credits. You have trying to

1092
01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:12,160
Speaker 1: fix some of like to have that fragmentation which is

1093
01:00:12,200 --> 01:00:15,440
Speaker 1: that highway right doing an overpass, but not any kind

1094
01:00:15,480 --> 01:00:19,439
Speaker 1: of predator control. No, I would still have predator control going. Yeah,

1095
01:00:20,600 --> 01:00:22,240
Speaker 1: those are the kind of those are the three big

1096
01:00:22,320 --> 01:00:24,360
Speaker 1: ones you know that would be aggressive like it's going

1097
01:00:24,360 --> 01:00:26,960
Speaker 1: on up in British Columbia. Yeah, it would be you know,

1098
01:00:27,040 --> 01:00:30,360
Speaker 1: targeted wolf removal. We're not we're not anti wolf, and

1099
01:00:30,400 --> 01:00:32,920
Speaker 1: I don't want to come off that way. Um. We

1100
01:00:32,960 --> 01:00:35,040
Speaker 1: don't mind having wolves on landscape, that's just part of

1101
01:00:35,080 --> 01:00:39,200
Speaker 1: the deal. Um, we don't. We don't want them cohabitating

1102
01:00:39,240 --> 01:00:42,680
Speaker 1: with the cariboo right now because there's population for sure

1103
01:00:42,760 --> 01:00:44,640
Speaker 1: right now, if we had we had a thousand caribou,

1104
01:00:44,640 --> 01:00:46,560
Speaker 1: it wouldn't make any difference if a one got picked

1105
01:00:46,600 --> 01:00:48,280
Speaker 1: off every once in a while. This is pretty incidental.

1106
01:00:48,400 --> 01:00:50,840
Speaker 1: You know, obviously wolves aren't making a living on the Cariboo,

1107
01:00:51,280 --> 01:00:55,400
Speaker 1: they wouldn't last long. Um, but any incidental take when

1108
01:00:55,440 --> 01:00:57,760
Speaker 1: you have just a handful of animals is pretty critical.

1109
01:00:58,480 --> 01:01:01,240
Speaker 1: So yeah, we would can tenue with the predator control.

1110
01:01:01,680 --> 01:01:05,880
Speaker 1: Um hm, what percent chances it that they'll all die?

1111
01:01:07,400 --> 01:01:12,640
Speaker 1: I don't know, likely or not likely? Um, well, at

1112
01:01:12,720 --> 01:01:15,120
Speaker 1: least you know from thecaun once there's four, they're done, right,

1113
01:01:15,160 --> 01:01:17,040
Speaker 1: I mean, there's a point at which they're done. There's

1114
01:01:17,080 --> 01:01:18,960
Speaker 1: a point and I don't think anybody wants to think

1115
01:01:18,960 --> 01:01:21,440
Speaker 1: about that. I don't know what that number would be. Um,

1116
01:01:21,760 --> 01:01:25,160
Speaker 1: the Couspell tribe, you know that, my boss. We're not

1117
01:01:25,240 --> 01:01:27,840
Speaker 1: gonna quit working on the Caribou until they're gone all

1118
01:01:27,880 --> 01:01:30,200
Speaker 1: the way. But it won't. And if they're gone though, right,

1119
01:01:30,200 --> 01:01:33,000
Speaker 1: because then you can still there's still a recovery area,

1120
01:01:33,040 --> 01:01:35,120
Speaker 1: there's still all of such stuff. But um, I mean,

1121
01:01:35,160 --> 01:01:38,040
Speaker 1: if we can't get animals dogment the population when there's

1122
01:01:39,000 --> 01:01:42,480
Speaker 1: animals there, imagine imagine trying to put those political strings

1123
01:01:42,520 --> 01:01:46,240
Speaker 1: and get it'd be impossible. Are you married? I am? Okay?

1124
01:01:46,440 --> 01:01:49,200
Speaker 1: You come home and you're like I don't know what

1125
01:01:49,400 --> 01:01:52,920
Speaker 1: the point is. There's uh my, I feel like I

1126
01:01:53,040 --> 01:01:56,000
Speaker 1: went I have the wrong career. Why do I bother?

1127
01:01:56,520 --> 01:02:02,040
Speaker 1: And your wife wants to cheer you up? She says, well,

1128
01:02:02,080 --> 01:02:06,440
Speaker 1: I've been. Stacy's super supportive of the cariboo stuff. She

1129
01:02:06,800 --> 01:02:09,960
Speaker 1: cares about the cariboo. And why why does anybody care

1130
01:02:09,960 --> 01:02:13,280
Speaker 1: about the cariboo? Well, I think because it's the right

1131
01:02:13,320 --> 01:02:15,360
Speaker 1: thing to do. Yeah, I mean I was listening to

1132
01:02:15,440 --> 01:02:20,440
Speaker 1: a thing where, uh, Donald Trump was talking about how

1133
01:02:21,960 --> 01:02:24,800
Speaker 1: they should they there's no reason to let water out

1134
01:02:24,840 --> 01:02:28,080
Speaker 1: of the Sacramento River because it's just a stupid three

1135
01:02:28,120 --> 01:02:30,880
Speaker 1: inch fish, and he was kind of ridiculing the fish,

1136
01:02:31,480 --> 01:02:35,400
Speaker 1: the delta smelt. He's like teasing the delta smelt. I

1137
01:02:35,480 --> 01:02:37,560
Speaker 1: imagine a lot of people who kind of tease the cariboo.

1138
01:02:37,720 --> 01:02:42,080
Speaker 1: Right there's a petition right now to get them delisted,

1139
01:02:43,080 --> 01:02:45,360
Speaker 1: like it's the most imperiled species in the lower forty

1140
01:02:45,360 --> 01:02:46,920
Speaker 1: eight And there's a petition in front of the US

1141
01:02:46,960 --> 01:02:48,880
Speaker 1: Fish and Wildlife Service to take them off of the

1142
01:02:49,280 --> 01:02:54,040
Speaker 1: dangered Species list and remove the recovery area. Um motivated

1143
01:02:54,120 --> 01:02:59,320
Speaker 1: by that's by the snowmobile closure. You know they've closed

1144
01:02:59,360 --> 01:03:02,680
Speaker 1: winter recreate up there, um in a big portion of

1145
01:03:02,760 --> 01:03:06,280
Speaker 1: north Idaho and northeast Washington and Canada and um, those

1146
01:03:06,320 --> 01:03:10,320
Speaker 1: groups are upset and they whatever, maybe they have something

1147
01:03:10,360 --> 01:03:12,560
Speaker 1: of a point that cariboo haven't been in some of

1148
01:03:12,600 --> 01:03:14,520
Speaker 1: that area for a long time. There's maybe an opportunity

1149
01:03:14,600 --> 01:03:17,360
Speaker 1: to have that talk with them. But you know, to

1150
01:03:17,560 --> 01:03:19,920
Speaker 1: pull the animal off the list and remove the recovery

1151
01:03:19,920 --> 01:03:22,360
Speaker 1: areas ridiculous. Yeah, so it's not the most to animal.

1152
01:03:22,360 --> 01:03:25,919
Speaker 1: They just want to remove the recovery area right, recovery restrictions. Sure,

1153
01:03:26,360 --> 01:03:28,080
Speaker 1: and there are people that you know, they see the

1154
01:03:28,160 --> 01:03:30,520
Speaker 1: cost of what this stuff, you know, is gonna and

1155
01:03:31,000 --> 01:03:33,400
Speaker 1: in total, I hate to even guess what it might

1156
01:03:33,440 --> 01:03:37,280
Speaker 1: cost to recover cariboo. Like in your perfect world, I

1157
01:03:37,360 --> 01:03:39,720
Speaker 1: have unlimited but funding. Right, But why do people not

1158
01:03:39,800 --> 01:03:44,840
Speaker 1: even know about the cariboo? I mean that's only a right. Yeah,

1159
01:03:45,080 --> 01:03:46,960
Speaker 1: I don't know, or you know, I don't know, but

1160
01:03:47,200 --> 01:03:50,920
Speaker 1: you know, they're having so much crazy emphasis on the

1161
01:03:51,040 --> 01:03:56,200
Speaker 1: last big reintroduction success story and protecting that big success

1162
01:03:56,280 --> 01:04:02,520
Speaker 1: story to crazy extent. Like, but here's this twelve animal

1163
01:04:02,600 --> 01:04:06,000
Speaker 1: her grizzlies in Montana, and people act like they know

1164
01:04:06,080 --> 01:04:09,960
Speaker 1: them all by name and like if they're gonna deal

1165
01:04:10,800 --> 01:04:13,960
Speaker 1: delist grizzlies in the Greater Yelstone ecosystem everything, But what

1166
01:04:14,120 --> 01:04:19,040
Speaker 1: if Old Snaggle scar Face gets killed? What happens? Then

1167
01:04:21,080 --> 01:04:24,360
Speaker 1: people don't even know here? You got where you could

1168
01:04:24,440 --> 01:04:26,960
Speaker 1: actually know all their names, and people don't know or

1169
01:04:27,080 --> 01:04:29,040
Speaker 1: care that they're there. How do they not make the

1170
01:04:29,120 --> 01:04:32,919
Speaker 1: charismatic megafonal list? You? Yeah, you just took the words

1171
01:04:32,960 --> 01:04:34,800
Speaker 1: out of my mouth. They're not charismatic enough. I don't

1172
01:04:34,800 --> 01:04:37,200
Speaker 1: know they're They don't pay the bills right. There are

1173
01:04:37,240 --> 01:04:40,520
Speaker 1: no conservation groups getting on board with Cariboo recovery because

1174
01:04:40,560 --> 01:04:44,560
Speaker 1: you're not gonna get, um, some crazy cat lady in

1175
01:04:44,960 --> 01:04:47,680
Speaker 1: New York City to send you forty bucks to save

1176
01:04:47,760 --> 01:04:52,880
Speaker 1: the Cariboo. She doesn't care about the save someone with

1177
01:04:53,000 --> 01:04:56,240
Speaker 1: closet teeth she will absolutely care about um. So people

1178
01:04:56,480 --> 01:04:58,120
Speaker 1: maybe they just don't relate to care. But I don't know.

1179
01:04:58,360 --> 01:04:59,800
Speaker 1: Have you spent much have you got to spend much

1180
01:04:59,840 --> 01:05:02,720
Speaker 1: time up in the areas open good Cariboo country? Yeah?

1181
01:05:03,200 --> 01:05:06,320
Speaker 1: Just amazing, It's fantastic, it's beautiful. You know, we've hunted

1182
01:05:06,400 --> 01:05:08,360
Speaker 1: up there where be there for a few days and

1183
01:05:08,560 --> 01:05:12,320
Speaker 1: every day hundreds come through. Yeah, you can never not

1184
01:05:12,440 --> 01:05:16,040
Speaker 1: see them. I haven't spent time in that Cariboo country.

1185
01:05:18,200 --> 01:05:20,120
Speaker 1: I've also hiked my ass off trying to find one.

1186
01:05:20,480 --> 01:05:22,000
Speaker 1: But I'm saying I did have the experience of like

1187
01:05:22,040 --> 01:05:23,880
Speaker 1: whatever he dreams about, right, and they're just like coming

1188
01:05:23,920 --> 01:05:26,120
Speaker 1: and coming and coming and coming coming. Then you wake

1189
01:05:26,200 --> 01:05:28,360
Speaker 1: up the next day and they're coming and coming coming.

1190
01:05:28,400 --> 01:05:30,480
Speaker 1: It's not even hunting. It's like you sort of event

1191
01:05:30,520 --> 01:05:32,280
Speaker 1: should be like, Okay, we should probably go get one.

1192
01:05:32,360 --> 01:05:37,080
Speaker 1: I guess it's just like it's like observation. The places

1193
01:05:37,160 --> 01:05:40,240
Speaker 1: that these Cariboo live are fantastic. In this helkirks, dude,

1194
01:05:40,240 --> 01:05:44,280
Speaker 1: there's you know, there's links, there's wolverine, there's fishers, um.

1195
01:05:44,680 --> 01:05:48,000
Speaker 1: You know, this whole suite of rare and cool species

1196
01:05:48,440 --> 01:05:50,840
Speaker 1: um that a lot of people don't really realize we

1197
01:05:50,960 --> 01:05:54,760
Speaker 1: have up there. It's pretty fantastic country. Really well. I

1198
01:05:54,800 --> 01:05:56,440
Speaker 1: look at things, I always trying to like draw to

1199
01:05:56,560 --> 01:05:59,360
Speaker 1: make definitions, you know, or try to struggle to find

1200
01:06:00,040 --> 01:06:03,960
Speaker 1: um ways to qualify stuff. And one way, when I

1201
01:06:04,040 --> 01:06:08,400
Speaker 1: think of wilderness right a way to define it, and

1202
01:06:08,480 --> 01:06:10,760
Speaker 1: it's a very difficult term to deal with. But I

1203
01:06:10,760 --> 01:06:15,920
Speaker 1: always think a barometer of wilderness would be that the

1204
01:06:16,000 --> 01:06:21,000
Speaker 1: species are intact, right that, like, all the pieces are there.

1205
01:06:21,360 --> 01:06:24,080
Speaker 1: I realized that's tricky because that means you're kind of

1206
01:06:24,240 --> 01:06:27,000
Speaker 1: that definition is bad, not bad, but that definition isn't

1207
01:06:27,080 --> 01:06:29,880
Speaker 1: great because you're sort of ruling out the possibility of

1208
01:06:29,960 --> 01:06:34,640
Speaker 1: wilderness in the eastern US, right. And that's the same degree,

1209
01:06:34,800 --> 01:06:37,640
Speaker 1: you know with the delisting the group that wants to

1210
01:06:38,440 --> 01:06:41,480
Speaker 1: or whatever. If cariboo, let's say cariboo did go away,

1211
01:06:41,920 --> 01:06:45,520
Speaker 1: the recovery area would exist still, um okay, it would

1212
01:06:45,560 --> 01:06:48,560
Speaker 1: take an effort to get that recovery area removed because

1213
01:06:49,480 --> 01:06:54,200
Speaker 1: you know that's still potentially caribou habitat um. So people

1214
01:06:54,240 --> 01:06:58,600
Speaker 1: don't really recognize that. Um you know with the wilderness thing. Yeah,

1215
01:06:58,640 --> 01:07:01,280
Speaker 1: I'm sort of represented to say that the species have

1216
01:07:01,360 --> 01:07:03,080
Speaker 1: to be there, but certainly, like you said, the pieces

1217
01:07:03,120 --> 01:07:07,160
Speaker 1: have to be there. The the the habitat to meet

1218
01:07:07,200 --> 01:07:09,800
Speaker 1: the life needs of that species should be there. What

1219
01:07:10,000 --> 01:07:12,800
Speaker 1: was the last legally killed cariboo by a hunter in

1220
01:07:12,840 --> 01:07:15,160
Speaker 1: the US? I feel like it's in the twenties, wasn't it. No,

1221
01:07:15,560 --> 01:07:17,440
Speaker 1: it was later than that. I want to think it

1222
01:07:17,560 --> 01:07:19,600
Speaker 1: was like ninety nine or something, but I could be wrong,

1223
01:07:20,240 --> 01:07:22,800
Speaker 1: Like I legally killed one. Do you know where it was?

1224
01:07:24,120 --> 01:07:26,320
Speaker 1: I don't remember reading the thing about it. I can't

1225
01:07:26,320 --> 01:07:28,240
Speaker 1: remember what it was. I know that there was a

1226
01:07:28,320 --> 01:07:32,000
Speaker 1: couple of poached and maybe the nineties even pretty late,

1227
01:07:32,400 --> 01:07:34,680
Speaker 1: poached by dudes who wanted the heads or poached by

1228
01:07:34,760 --> 01:07:37,560
Speaker 1: dudes were piste off about caribou and piste off about

1229
01:07:37,800 --> 01:07:41,480
Speaker 1: Endangered Species Act issues. Well, we don't know. Um, we

1230
01:07:41,520 --> 01:07:44,880
Speaker 1: wouldn't we were, We wouldn't know either of those cases,

1231
01:07:45,000 --> 01:07:47,200
Speaker 1: right because somebody that's piste off about the cariboo is

1232
01:07:47,200 --> 01:07:48,760
Speaker 1: probably not going to poach one and then go down

1233
01:07:48,800 --> 01:07:52,640
Speaker 1: and turn it in. These were mistaken identities. These are

1234
01:07:52,640 --> 01:07:54,439
Speaker 1: people that killed a cariboo and thought it was something

1235
01:07:54,480 --> 01:07:57,640
Speaker 1: else and they self reported or whatever. Dude, people shoot

1236
01:07:57,720 --> 01:08:00,560
Speaker 1: llamas thinking their elk to hang that up, and he

1237
01:08:00,680 --> 01:08:04,200
Speaker 1: was a Native Montana. I remember going to a fishing

1238
01:08:04,240 --> 01:08:06,560
Speaker 1: game check station and seeing the thing they had the

1239
01:08:06,600 --> 01:08:10,640
Speaker 1: thing up says, this is a lama, this is this

1240
01:08:10,840 --> 01:08:12,920
Speaker 1: is an elk, This is a llama. This is the

1241
01:08:13,000 --> 01:08:16,719
Speaker 1: dolly lava. What I thought was funny about that. Okay,

1242
01:08:16,800 --> 01:08:20,400
Speaker 1: he makes the mistake, right, he makes mistakes, which is bad.

1243
01:08:20,520 --> 01:08:22,920
Speaker 1: I mean, you shouldn't do that. Anyways, but then he

1244
01:08:23,000 --> 01:08:25,120
Speaker 1: brings it to the check station like his an actual

1245
01:08:25,200 --> 01:08:29,720
Speaker 1: cow elk packed it out, probably got it in. One

1246
01:08:29,800 --> 01:08:31,560
Speaker 1: question I have for you is that like hunters have

1247
01:08:31,720 --> 01:08:34,400
Speaker 1: been you know this this they've been part of this

1248
01:08:34,520 --> 01:08:38,120
Speaker 1: great restoration across the country, right and so, um, you know,

1249
01:08:38,360 --> 01:08:42,559
Speaker 1: white tailed deer, elk, antelope, turkeys, they've all come back

1250
01:08:42,640 --> 01:08:46,120
Speaker 1: because of hunters. And so you have this caribou population,

1251
01:08:46,200 --> 01:08:49,599
Speaker 1: which it would take. It sounds like a long long

1252
01:08:49,720 --> 01:08:52,400
Speaker 1: time before would ever have a hunting population of cariba.

1253
01:08:52,600 --> 01:08:57,080
Speaker 1: You you probably remove that from your life goals. Cariboan.

1254
01:08:59,160 --> 01:09:01,720
Speaker 1: It's a species. We've done it before. Like I just

1255
01:09:01,880 --> 01:09:03,439
Speaker 1: I guess that question is so like when you talk

1256
01:09:03,439 --> 01:09:05,800
Speaker 1: about like the snow billers, they don't like like them

1257
01:09:05,800 --> 01:09:07,599
Speaker 1: because of the area got show on. I get that piece,

1258
01:09:08,240 --> 01:09:11,120
Speaker 1: But why aren't hunters more engaged in trying to like

1259
01:09:11,360 --> 01:09:13,639
Speaker 1: establish this population And is that part of the whole

1260
01:09:13,960 --> 01:09:17,160
Speaker 1: conversation that you guys are having. Um, well, I don't

1261
01:09:17,160 --> 01:09:18,920
Speaker 1: know that it's really part of the conversation. It's certainly

1262
01:09:18,960 --> 01:09:23,000
Speaker 1: frustrating though, Um there's such a cool species in there. Whatever.

1263
01:09:23,160 --> 01:09:26,240
Speaker 1: You know, you talk about what hunters want different things,

1264
01:09:26,320 --> 01:09:29,080
Speaker 1: and some hunters want cariboo back because it's the right

1265
01:09:29,160 --> 01:09:31,120
Speaker 1: thing to do, and they recognize they're probably never gonna

1266
01:09:31,120 --> 01:09:33,880
Speaker 1: get the opportunity to hunt one. Um. But you know,

1267
01:09:33,960 --> 01:09:36,640
Speaker 1: they're they're antler to body size ratio is like the

1268
01:09:36,720 --> 01:09:39,000
Speaker 1: highest in the deer family. They have huge antlers for

1269
01:09:39,040 --> 01:09:41,519
Speaker 1: their body size. They're very you know, they're cool animal

1270
01:09:41,640 --> 01:09:44,400
Speaker 1: of heavier horns than the barren ground animals. They're they're

1271
01:09:44,439 --> 01:09:47,120
Speaker 1: beautiful animal. It would be fantastic to hunt one someday,

1272
01:09:47,760 --> 01:09:50,639
Speaker 1: or for our grandkids to hunt one someday. Um. I'm

1273
01:09:50,640 --> 01:09:54,479
Speaker 1: sort of surprised the hunting community hasn't jumped on board more. Um.

1274
01:09:54,680 --> 01:09:58,200
Speaker 1: There was a group the in the Northwest Wildlife Council

1275
01:09:58,280 --> 01:10:01,640
Speaker 1: was a big partner in the original augmentation and they

1276
01:10:01,720 --> 01:10:03,960
Speaker 1: had people helping and they put up money and stuff

1277
01:10:04,000 --> 01:10:06,160
Speaker 1: like that. So that's kind of the last sort of

1278
01:10:07,040 --> 01:10:09,800
Speaker 1: hunting group that coughed anything up. Did they walk away

1279
01:10:09,840 --> 01:10:14,000
Speaker 1: because it just wasn't working the way they wanted? Um, No,

1280
01:10:14,320 --> 01:10:17,360
Speaker 1: they walked it. They walked away because the project was

1281
01:10:17,439 --> 01:10:20,240
Speaker 1: over and it was working, he said, and they the

1282
01:10:20,360 --> 01:10:23,240
Speaker 1: cariboo were coming back. That's what people. You know, this

1283
01:10:23,360 --> 01:10:27,599
Speaker 1: hasn't been like the slow decline. This has happened quickly,

1284
01:10:27,720 --> 01:10:33,360
Speaker 1: and we have a pretty good idea why we're not. Yeah,

1285
01:10:33,960 --> 01:10:36,120
Speaker 1: I'm guilty. This is coming from a guy who's guilty

1286
01:10:36,120 --> 01:10:38,960
Speaker 1: of not having not done diddly squat towards helping Cariboan

1287
01:10:39,160 --> 01:10:41,320
Speaker 1: you know, in lower forty eight. Like, I haven't done anything.

1288
01:10:41,640 --> 01:10:44,880
Speaker 1: I'm just learning about it right now. Um. But I

1289
01:10:45,000 --> 01:10:48,360
Speaker 1: do think that people I should care about this kind

1290
01:10:48,360 --> 01:10:51,320
Speaker 1: of thing and be involved in it, because I don't

1291
01:10:51,360 --> 01:10:57,080
Speaker 1: think it's right to have animals vanish from the face

1292
01:10:57,160 --> 01:11:01,200
Speaker 1: of the earth because of things as we've screwed up.

1293
01:11:02,160 --> 01:11:03,400
Speaker 1: And I don't care if you need to draw the

1294
01:11:03,479 --> 01:11:07,280
Speaker 1: inspiration to adhere by that from religion or just as

1295
01:11:07,360 --> 01:11:10,880
Speaker 1: a humanist or wherever it comes from. It's just like

1296
01:11:11,840 --> 01:11:18,440
Speaker 1: it just seems to me categorically wrong. Two two eliminate

1297
01:11:18,680 --> 01:11:23,280
Speaker 1: species from Earth, you know, Yeah, I totally agree. It's

1298
01:11:23,360 --> 01:11:28,320
Speaker 1: like just a sin um in all things. It's like

1299
01:11:29,240 --> 01:11:33,120
Speaker 1: whether you feel that we have been given domain or

1300
01:11:33,200 --> 01:11:36,040
Speaker 1: the earth, or whether we just happen to need to

1301
01:11:36,200 --> 01:11:38,840
Speaker 1: feel that way, you know what, we got it from

1302
01:11:38,880 --> 01:11:42,960
Speaker 1: a celestial being or not. Uh, we just can't let

1303
01:11:43,080 --> 01:11:45,680
Speaker 1: things go, let things vanish. I think The reason that

1304
01:11:45,800 --> 01:11:51,599
Speaker 1: kind of falls under hunters per view is because hunters

1305
01:11:51,680 --> 01:11:56,479
Speaker 1: have done recovery of all of big game animals, and

1306
01:11:56,560 --> 01:11:59,200
Speaker 1: it's like, just because I think we have to take

1307
01:11:59,240 --> 01:12:01,479
Speaker 1: responsibility for big game animals, even if they're not going

1308
01:12:01,560 --> 01:12:05,479
Speaker 1: to be our game, you know. And uh, I think

1309
01:12:05,520 --> 01:12:08,479
Speaker 1: that the guys who first got involved in recovering big

1310
01:12:08,520 --> 01:12:11,719
Speaker 1: horn sheep, we're not We're hardly motivated by the idea

1311
01:12:11,720 --> 01:12:13,720
Speaker 1: of somebody, I'm gonna get to hunt one. I met

1312
01:12:13,760 --> 01:12:16,160
Speaker 1: a lot of guys who worked down the Kentucky Elk

1313
01:12:16,720 --> 01:12:21,600
Speaker 1: reintroduction who have given their entire volunteer lives and what

1314
01:12:21,720 --> 01:12:23,400
Speaker 1: are the odds of them ever drawn a tank? They'll

1315
01:12:23,439 --> 01:12:25,840
Speaker 1: never do it. The guys who know most about those

1316
01:12:25,880 --> 01:12:27,920
Speaker 1: animals and work hardest on behalf of those animals never

1317
01:12:28,000 --> 01:12:31,280
Speaker 1: hunt them. You know. It's not always it's not always

1318
01:12:31,320 --> 01:12:34,200
Speaker 1: about like what can I hunt one? You know this

1319
01:12:34,280 --> 01:12:37,040
Speaker 1: people don't look at it that way. Um, they're sort

1320
01:12:37,080 --> 01:12:39,959
Speaker 1: of a it's a weird thing, and it's this intrinsic

1321
01:12:40,040 --> 01:12:42,439
Speaker 1: reward or whatever that we get from the recovery effort.

1322
01:12:42,479 --> 01:12:46,120
Speaker 1: But it's the same feeling probably that the cat lady

1323
01:12:46,160 --> 01:12:47,880
Speaker 1: in New York gets sent in forty bucks to save

1324
01:12:47,920 --> 01:12:50,960
Speaker 1: a wolf. Right, She's probably never gonna see a wolf,

1325
01:12:51,040 --> 01:12:52,639
Speaker 1: she's never gonna hear a wolf howl, but it means

1326
01:12:52,720 --> 01:12:56,559
Speaker 1: something to her that they're there, So yeah, I likely

1327
01:12:56,640 --> 01:13:01,000
Speaker 1: to similar kind of thing I argue in favor quite

1328
01:13:01,080 --> 01:13:07,400
Speaker 1: often lately of of delisting grizzlies in the Greater Elstone ecosystem,

1329
01:13:08,200 --> 01:13:09,920
Speaker 1: and people are often like, oh, yeah, because you want

1330
01:13:09,960 --> 01:13:13,160
Speaker 1: to hunt with's like one, I don't. It would take

1331
01:13:13,160 --> 01:13:15,280
Speaker 1: me a long time to explain what I why I don't.

1332
01:13:15,320 --> 01:13:17,200
Speaker 1: But I don't. I will never if I could put

1333
01:13:17,240 --> 01:13:18,320
Speaker 1: it in for a tag, right, I want to put

1334
01:13:18,360 --> 01:13:20,719
Speaker 1: it for It's just I'm not interested in that population

1335
01:13:20,760 --> 01:13:26,160
Speaker 1: in that way. Um. Two, if I did want to,

1336
01:13:27,160 --> 01:13:30,519
Speaker 1: I would have probably, you know, somewhere well less than

1337
01:13:30,760 --> 01:13:34,400
Speaker 1: point to five or a quarter of a percent or

1338
01:13:34,479 --> 01:13:37,360
Speaker 1: so odds of ever drawing the tag, particularly as a

1339
01:13:37,400 --> 01:13:39,559
Speaker 1: non resident. It's gonna be a lottery draw. If they

1340
01:13:39,640 --> 01:13:41,280
Speaker 1: do do a hunt, they're gonna be giving out a

1341
01:13:41,320 --> 01:13:44,000
Speaker 1: handful of tags. They're gonna have hundreds of thousands of applicants.

1342
01:13:44,160 --> 01:13:47,200
Speaker 1: You're not gonna do it, but people can't help. But

1343
01:13:47,320 --> 01:13:50,519
Speaker 1: just make that jump that like you must be in

1344
01:13:50,720 --> 01:13:55,000
Speaker 1: this for something some dark motivation. It would be a

1345
01:13:55,000 --> 01:13:57,920
Speaker 1: good a way to prove them wrong for hunters to

1346
01:13:58,160 --> 01:14:00,680
Speaker 1: get involved in this and look at a it's a

1347
01:14:00,760 --> 01:14:04,519
Speaker 1: depleted game species. It's not like putting turkeys on the

1348
01:14:04,600 --> 01:14:06,120
Speaker 1: ground where in five years you're gonna be hunting for

1349
01:14:06,160 --> 01:14:08,280
Speaker 1: the things. It's just you're not. But we should almost

1350
01:14:08,800 --> 01:14:11,800
Speaker 1: I feel like hunters should, especially people who live around

1351
01:14:11,840 --> 01:14:15,639
Speaker 1: that area, get involved in the same way that we've

1352
01:14:15,640 --> 01:14:19,280
Speaker 1: always gotten involved in recovering wildlife. It's just a long,

1353
01:14:19,360 --> 01:14:21,760
Speaker 1: slow process. Yeah, maybe some time in two hundred years

1354
01:14:21,800 --> 01:14:23,479
Speaker 1: or a hundred years it's gonna be hunting season form.

1355
01:14:23,520 --> 01:14:28,640
Speaker 1: Who knows. I tend to doubt it. Well, right right now,

1356
01:14:28,720 --> 01:14:31,280
Speaker 1: there's a group and it's pretty much all agency folks

1357
01:14:31,320 --> 01:14:34,960
Speaker 1: putting together a plan. But um, you know, when there's

1358
01:14:35,000 --> 01:14:37,400
Speaker 1: a decision made, there will be an opportunity for people

1359
01:14:37,400 --> 01:14:41,320
Speaker 1: to step forward. And we've talked about actually I've volunteered

1360
01:14:41,560 --> 01:14:45,400
Speaker 1: backgount trainers and anglers. Is um working on the maternal pen.

1361
01:14:45,520 --> 01:14:47,679
Speaker 1: If we ever have a this maternal pen, it's gonna

1362
01:14:47,720 --> 01:14:49,280
Speaker 1: be rad It's gonna be way up in the mountains.

1363
01:14:49,680 --> 01:14:51,720
Speaker 1: It's gonna be like you know, ten acre pen with

1364
01:14:51,840 --> 01:14:53,600
Speaker 1: a wall tent in a cabin that we have to

1365
01:14:53,680 --> 01:14:56,320
Speaker 1: maintain throughout the whole winter, and it's gonna be probably

1366
01:14:56,360 --> 01:14:58,880
Speaker 1: a volunteer effort. So I mean, there are going to

1367
01:14:58,920 --> 01:15:01,160
Speaker 1: be opportunities for people to step to the plate um

1368
01:15:02,320 --> 01:15:05,320
Speaker 1: Right now, there's not unless you want to go you know,

1369
01:15:05,439 --> 01:15:08,080
Speaker 1: cougar hunting in north Idaho or northeast Washington, or go

1370
01:15:08,160 --> 01:15:09,840
Speaker 1: wolf funding or something like that. You can you know,

1371
01:15:10,000 --> 01:15:12,960
Speaker 1: play that kind of role. But um, there's not a

1372
01:15:13,040 --> 01:15:15,960
Speaker 1: lot of things for people to do right now. You know. No,

1373
01:15:16,600 --> 01:15:19,800
Speaker 1: hopefully people you know, it gets to be more of

1374
01:15:19,880 --> 01:15:22,120
Speaker 1: a mainstream conversation and people recognize that the carib are

1375
01:15:22,160 --> 01:15:23,840
Speaker 1: still there and there are people trying to do things

1376
01:15:23,880 --> 01:15:27,080
Speaker 1: and support them whatever when the time comes through, you know,

1377
01:15:27,160 --> 01:15:29,800
Speaker 1: sending letters of support and different things like that. But yeah,

1378
01:15:30,320 --> 01:15:36,479
Speaker 1: so you need like you need some agency to say, okay,

1379
01:15:37,280 --> 01:15:39,439
Speaker 1: here are some animals. If they do that, do you

1380
01:15:39,520 --> 01:15:42,160
Speaker 1: get the money? We would find the money there, We

1381
01:15:42,240 --> 01:15:47,640
Speaker 1: would we would find the money. What would be a

1382
01:15:47,840 --> 01:15:52,080
Speaker 1: price per animal that would not be surprising, that would

1383
01:15:52,120 --> 01:15:56,240
Speaker 1: be not surprising how cheap or how expensive it was. Um,

1384
01:15:56,360 --> 01:15:57,920
Speaker 1: it doesn't work that way, you know, I don't even

1385
01:15:58,000 --> 01:16:01,240
Speaker 1: know I have. Like I said, saving this species is

1386
01:16:01,360 --> 01:16:03,640
Speaker 1: more important to me, probably than the budget would be.

1387
01:16:03,680 --> 01:16:08,040
Speaker 1: I would or could it potentially be actually like Okay,

1388
01:16:08,080 --> 01:16:09,920
Speaker 1: we'll sell them to you or is it not work

1389
01:16:10,040 --> 01:16:14,160
Speaker 1: that way. I don't know. I don't know if it

1390
01:16:14,240 --> 01:16:16,800
Speaker 1: works that way because we're not. If we're not, yeah,

1391
01:16:16,800 --> 01:16:20,040
Speaker 1: we're not getting these from the United States. This is

1392
01:16:20,080 --> 01:16:24,160
Speaker 1: coming from British Columbia. UM. British Columbia is a strong

1393
01:16:24,280 --> 01:16:27,160
Speaker 1: partner for us. They want the herd to exist UM

1394
01:16:27,320 --> 01:16:29,439
Speaker 1: for a number of reasons. One, it's their southernmost heard,

1395
01:16:29,880 --> 01:16:31,800
Speaker 1: it's the only herd that extends into the United States.

1396
01:16:31,840 --> 01:16:33,439
Speaker 1: And if they want the United States to remain a

1397
01:16:33,479 --> 01:16:37,320
Speaker 1: strong partner, UM, they need to keep this herd around.

1398
01:16:38,080 --> 01:16:39,800
Speaker 1: And we are a strong partner in both the tribes

1399
01:16:39,840 --> 01:16:41,800
Speaker 1: are strong partners in the States and everything else. So

1400
01:16:42,400 --> 01:16:45,320
Speaker 1: UM can't I'm not I'm not trying to like paint

1401
01:16:45,360 --> 01:16:47,120
Speaker 1: Canada in a negative light. They want the herd to

1402
01:16:47,160 --> 01:16:50,760
Speaker 1: be there, UM, but they have there's a cost to

1403
01:16:50,840 --> 01:16:54,240
Speaker 1: them to move those animals down with potential failure, and

1404
01:16:54,240 --> 01:16:57,280
Speaker 1: there's also a potential reward. That's what we're trying to

1405
01:16:57,320 --> 01:17:00,320
Speaker 1: sell them. So does does the decision rest like some

1406
01:17:00,560 --> 01:17:03,960
Speaker 1: individuals desk ors a more complex than that. I hope

1407
01:17:04,000 --> 01:17:06,600
Speaker 1: it's more complex than that. I'm not really sure. I

1408
01:17:06,640 --> 01:17:08,639
Speaker 1: don't I don't know who's making that decision at there.

1409
01:17:08,800 --> 01:17:11,080
Speaker 1: It's a high level in Canada. You know. It's not

1410
01:17:11,400 --> 01:17:15,360
Speaker 1: some field biologists that's gonna go do this. It's it's

1411
01:17:15,479 --> 01:17:20,960
Speaker 1: high level y interesting stuff. Any thoughts on all that,

1412
01:17:21,800 --> 01:17:23,880
Speaker 1: can you just real quick explain, just because I'm still

1413
01:17:24,000 --> 01:17:28,559
Speaker 1: like lost and like very early on Caribou Land. There's

1414
01:17:28,680 --> 01:17:31,320
Speaker 1: we've got mountain that we've been talking about. We've got

1415
01:17:31,360 --> 01:17:35,040
Speaker 1: the baring ground, which is pretty much all of Alaska.

1416
01:17:35,160 --> 01:17:37,360
Speaker 1: Are the ones on the Kenai of those mountain or

1417
01:17:37,439 --> 01:17:41,600
Speaker 1: bearing ground? I don't know. I don't know either. But

1418
01:17:41,720 --> 01:17:44,800
Speaker 1: what are the other car mountain bear care? Then there's

1419
01:17:44,840 --> 01:17:46,760
Speaker 1: the labrador or there's one they call that. Then you

1420
01:17:46,840 --> 01:17:50,000
Speaker 1: have reindeer in Eurasia, right, but in North America we

1421
01:17:50,120 --> 01:17:53,680
Speaker 1: just it's all but it's it's they all have the

1422
01:17:53,760 --> 01:17:57,960
Speaker 1: same the same Lenaean name down to the third word. Right.

1423
01:17:58,040 --> 01:18:02,360
Speaker 1: I think they can reproduce too, Yeah? Um, I think no,

1424
01:18:02,520 --> 01:18:05,800
Speaker 1: they can. Yeah, reindeer and cariboo. That was one of

1425
01:18:05,840 --> 01:18:07,960
Speaker 1: the deals, right, So there's like five or there's I

1426
01:18:08,040 --> 01:18:13,000
Speaker 1: think there's five kinds woodland, mountain, barren, ground lea hybridor

1427
01:18:13,080 --> 01:18:15,960
Speaker 1: and then there's another one. Yeah, so we're dealing with

1428
01:18:17,520 --> 01:18:21,240
Speaker 1: range for trandous um, woodland, mountain, cariboo, whatever. It's sort

1429
01:18:21,240 --> 01:18:23,800
Speaker 1: of you can use either name to describe the South.

1430
01:18:23,840 --> 01:18:26,600
Speaker 1: Selkirk's we go by mountain cariboo because I don't know

1431
01:18:26,680 --> 01:18:29,800
Speaker 1: why we just do. But if somebody called them a

1432
01:18:29,800 --> 01:18:33,559
Speaker 1: wood and cariboo, I probably wouldn't jump up and correct them. Um,

1433
01:18:34,800 --> 01:18:37,200
Speaker 1: they're definitely different than the stuff we have in Alaska

1434
01:18:37,720 --> 01:18:40,040
Speaker 1: in the Northwest territories. Up. When I saw those ones

1435
01:18:40,080 --> 01:18:42,240
Speaker 1: that I saw and we were hunting bears and we

1436
01:18:42,360 --> 01:18:44,920
Speaker 1: ran into some, it was like, you're looking at you're

1437
01:18:45,040 --> 01:18:47,760
Speaker 1: very different. Yeah, now you look at me like, that's

1438
01:18:47,760 --> 01:18:52,439
Speaker 1: not the kind I know about badass looking things though. Yeah,

1439
01:18:52,479 --> 01:18:56,519
Speaker 1: they're cool. They're you know, heavier, thick, obviously thick for

1440
01:18:56,720 --> 01:19:00,519
Speaker 1: big giant feet for snow shoeing, heavier antler you know,

1441
01:19:00,560 --> 01:19:03,680
Speaker 1: their antlers don't do the wobble when they j hug. Yeah,

1442
01:19:03,920 --> 01:19:06,599
Speaker 1: that was cool. G Any more things you want to say? Honest,

1443
01:19:07,800 --> 01:19:16,439
Speaker 1: I like that red T shirt? Uh got any concluding thoughts.

1444
01:19:16,600 --> 01:19:18,160
Speaker 1: You gotta talk the whole time, but you still have

1445
01:19:18,200 --> 01:19:20,200
Speaker 1: a concluding thought that has It can be anything that

1446
01:19:20,240 --> 01:19:23,679
Speaker 1: has nothing to do with us. No, No, it's just great.

1447
01:19:24,120 --> 01:19:27,080
Speaker 1: I like, I like, um, you know, hopefully more people

1448
01:19:27,200 --> 01:19:29,800
Speaker 1: just become aware that we have those caribou. Like I said,

1449
01:19:29,800 --> 01:19:32,000
Speaker 1: I'm not what's this? This isn't an ask, This isn't like,

1450
01:19:32,960 --> 01:19:34,960
Speaker 1: you know, broadcasting out trying to get people to send

1451
01:19:35,040 --> 01:19:37,200
Speaker 1: checks or anything, but just letting people know that they're

1452
01:19:37,200 --> 01:19:39,559
Speaker 1: still around and when the time comes, they might become

1453
01:19:39,600 --> 01:19:42,200
Speaker 1: an ask and send a letter of sport, do whatever. Yeah,

1454
01:19:42,720 --> 01:19:45,160
Speaker 1: I would ask that they take some of the energy

1455
01:19:45,200 --> 01:19:53,280
Speaker 1: they're spending towards saving recovered things and put it into

1456
01:19:53,360 --> 01:20:00,200
Speaker 1: things that are absolutely not recovered. Oh yeah, because you

1457
01:20:00,280 --> 01:20:04,000
Speaker 1: talked to really about social capital. We are burning a

1458
01:20:04,160 --> 01:20:09,360
Speaker 1: tremendous amount of social and political capital by arguing over

1459
01:20:09,520 --> 01:20:16,280
Speaker 1: things that, by any scientific definition I recovered and ignoring

1460
01:20:16,479 --> 01:20:22,280
Speaker 1: things that are on the are an absolute peril because

1461
01:20:22,439 --> 01:20:25,439
Speaker 1: of a print of mine. Point out, no one has

1462
01:20:25,560 --> 01:20:32,080
Speaker 1: calendars anymore because of instagram worthiness. It drives me nuts,

1463
01:20:33,280 --> 01:20:43,280
Speaker 1: Kay Collars. I keep thinking about two things. There's this

1464
01:20:43,360 --> 01:20:47,200
Speaker 1: old movie called The Rare breed. Did you ever see that?

1465
01:20:47,520 --> 01:20:51,360
Speaker 1: I'd like rare breed, Jimmy Stewart, it's about getting Herford

1466
01:20:52,320 --> 01:20:55,760
Speaker 1: cattle out here out in Texas. Supposed to be like

1467
01:20:55,800 --> 01:20:58,640
Speaker 1: to start a Herford cattle. But they know, man, this

1468
01:20:58,800 --> 01:21:03,599
Speaker 1: is giant ranch in Texas with these wild ass long

1469
01:21:03,720 --> 01:21:07,439
Speaker 1: horns that are just you know, free ranging it out there.

1470
01:21:07,439 --> 01:21:09,519
Speaker 1: And then they go round up these things every year

1471
01:21:09,600 --> 01:21:12,800
Speaker 1: and and that's how they run those that beef operation. Well,

1472
01:21:12,840 --> 01:21:15,720
Speaker 1: they the only way this rancher is gonna give this

1473
01:21:16,600 --> 01:21:20,000
Speaker 1: Herford ball is shot at cole mingling out there, is

1474
01:21:20,080 --> 01:21:23,439
Speaker 1: to just do it like everybody else. Just turn them

1475
01:21:23,479 --> 01:21:25,360
Speaker 1: loose on the range and wish him good luck and

1476
01:21:25,400 --> 01:21:28,320
Speaker 1: we'll see you in the spring. And that was supposedly

1477
01:21:28,400 --> 01:21:30,679
Speaker 1: like the start of the Herford thing. I keep thinking

1478
01:21:30,680 --> 01:21:34,640
Speaker 1: about that, like okay, hard release, here we go. But

1479
01:21:35,720 --> 01:21:39,799
Speaker 1: the other part of this is the like public knowledge

1480
01:21:39,920 --> 01:21:42,480
Speaker 1: just kills me, like it would it be more beneficial

1481
01:21:42,560 --> 01:21:46,040
Speaker 1: to destroy part of this caribou range by building like

1482
01:21:46,080 --> 01:21:49,400
Speaker 1: a spur road off a highway three, so you could

1483
01:21:49,600 --> 01:21:52,040
Speaker 1: take bus loads of tourists in there and be like, look,

1484
01:21:52,160 --> 01:21:56,439
Speaker 1: caribou only twelve left, all twelve, and people be like,

1485
01:21:56,520 --> 01:21:59,960
Speaker 1: holy ship, I need to get involved, right. Well, certain

1486
01:22:00,000 --> 01:22:02,440
Speaker 1: if we had a maternal pen, we'd have some opportunity

1487
01:22:02,479 --> 01:22:05,639
Speaker 1: to you know, let people peek through the fence or whatever,

1488
01:22:06,080 --> 01:22:08,200
Speaker 1: or going and feed him or whatever. You know, we'd

1489
01:22:08,240 --> 01:22:10,640
Speaker 1: be looking for volunteers together liking. That's gonna be a

1490
01:22:10,720 --> 01:22:13,880
Speaker 1: huge job. I mentioned trying to get enough moss to

1491
01:22:13,960 --> 01:22:17,120
Speaker 1: feed ten caribou for a winner. Yeah, that might create

1492
01:22:17,200 --> 01:22:20,840
Speaker 1: awareness and generate suppressed. Get some school kids out there

1493
01:22:20,880 --> 01:22:26,040
Speaker 1: collecting moss, certainly locally, which is important. They eat the moss,

1494
01:22:26,479 --> 01:22:28,960
Speaker 1: they love it. Oh yeah. I knew a gal that

1495
01:22:29,120 --> 01:22:32,280
Speaker 1: worked at the Large Animal Research Station there in Fairbanks,

1496
01:22:32,439 --> 01:22:34,720
Speaker 1: and she was working on the cariboo and she did that.

1497
01:22:34,840 --> 01:22:36,960
Speaker 1: They went up to the north slope and collected with

1498
01:22:37,080 --> 01:22:39,360
Speaker 1: like a group of twenty people just filled up like

1499
01:22:39,680 --> 01:22:44,160
Speaker 1: they forget they were recycled, not launched like grain sacks,

1500
01:22:44,280 --> 01:22:47,639
Speaker 1: or maybe just stuffed them full of liking. And she said,

1501
01:22:47,640 --> 01:22:49,320
Speaker 1: I think for most of the they didn't get it

1502
01:22:49,439 --> 01:22:51,920
Speaker 1: every day. And she said, when that sack would come

1503
01:22:51,960 --> 01:22:54,479
Speaker 1: out though, I mean, because the pen's pretty big, but

1504
01:22:54,600 --> 01:22:58,200
Speaker 1: those sockers are just running. But you know the stuff

1505
01:22:58,240 --> 01:23:01,160
Speaker 1: you saw out like the grows up on the trees.

1506
01:23:01,280 --> 01:23:03,880
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, don't They weren't collecting that,

1507
01:23:04,040 --> 01:23:06,720
Speaker 1: But do they that one that looks kind of seaweedy too,

1508
01:23:07,080 --> 01:23:09,920
Speaker 1: you know, the green stuff nasty looking, looks almost like

1509
01:23:09,960 --> 01:23:12,720
Speaker 1: something you'd find under the water, right like that. Yeah,

1510
01:23:12,760 --> 01:23:15,639
Speaker 1: they'll hit that. Um what is this? I've always wanted

1511
01:23:15,680 --> 01:23:18,040
Speaker 1: what that species is? Man Like, I don't know. I

1512
01:23:18,160 --> 01:23:20,519
Speaker 1: used to get hiking into the hot springs and you always, like,

1513
01:23:20,560 --> 01:23:22,320
Speaker 1: see so much of that stuff. I should look that up.

1514
01:23:22,600 --> 01:23:23,960
Speaker 1: You know, if you cut a tree down though, the

1515
01:23:24,000 --> 01:23:26,479
Speaker 1: deer now they eat that stuff out of the tops

1516
01:23:26,479 --> 01:23:28,120
Speaker 1: of trees. My buddy used to be a surveyor in

1517
01:23:28,200 --> 01:23:31,360
Speaker 1: Michigan's Up Peninsula and uh, he says, you'd be out

1518
01:23:31,360 --> 01:23:34,040
Speaker 1: there cutting the line through all that bottland. You know,

1519
01:23:34,680 --> 01:23:36,880
Speaker 1: you know, I'm just the sound of the chainsaw, she said.

1520
01:23:36,880 --> 01:23:38,560
Speaker 1: You'd cut your lines to everything up. You had to

1521
01:23:38,640 --> 01:23:41,720
Speaker 1: hurry up to shoot the lines because deer would come

1522
01:23:41,880 --> 01:23:44,519
Speaker 1: toward the chainsaw sound and you couldn't even look down

1523
01:23:44,560 --> 01:23:45,880
Speaker 1: to your thing, Like when you're shooting the lines, you

1524
01:23:45,880 --> 01:23:48,000
Speaker 1: can look dow anything, be all deer. You have to

1525
01:23:48,080 --> 01:23:49,880
Speaker 1: run down, scaring all the deer away, and then try

1526
01:23:49,920 --> 01:23:51,760
Speaker 1: to shoot the line real quick because they just know

1527
01:23:51,880 --> 01:23:55,759
Speaker 1: the chainsaw noise really yeah, they yeah, they know someone's

1528
01:23:55,800 --> 01:23:57,840
Speaker 1: knocking down cedars or whatever. They were just yeah, it's

1529
01:23:57,880 --> 01:23:59,920
Speaker 1: like a siren song. Man, it's like deer the sound

1530
01:24:00,000 --> 01:24:03,759
Speaker 1: of a deer feeder motor in Texas chainsaw on Northern Chainsaw,

1531
01:24:03,920 --> 01:24:08,400
Speaker 1: northernn You know, you're talking about the last of the breed,

1532
01:24:08,760 --> 01:24:14,040
Speaker 1: the rare breed. Uh My brother was worked at works

1533
01:24:14,080 --> 01:24:19,000
Speaker 1: at this research facility where they were doing, um they're

1534
01:24:19,160 --> 01:24:21,519
Speaker 1: they're working on a project or we're working on a

1535
01:24:21,600 --> 01:24:26,479
Speaker 1: project where they're trying to breed wagu and limousine cattle.

1536
01:24:27,280 --> 01:24:30,720
Speaker 1: So limousine the carcass attribute would be like it's this

1537
01:24:30,960 --> 01:24:36,240
Speaker 1: huge animal, okay, but very lean, and wagu is a small,

1538
01:24:36,400 --> 01:24:39,639
Speaker 1: squat animal with very high fat content. So they're trying

1539
01:24:39,640 --> 01:24:41,240
Speaker 1: to do the thing you breathe the two and make

1540
01:24:41,280 --> 01:24:44,840
Speaker 1: a giant high fat content like to make waygu, which

1541
01:24:44,840 --> 01:24:47,440
Speaker 1: is where you get cold baby beef, to get wagu

1542
01:24:48,360 --> 01:24:51,920
Speaker 1: from a large animal. And uh they would every year,

1543
01:24:51,960 --> 01:24:53,560
Speaker 1: the people that are working on this project would do

1544
01:24:53,680 --> 01:24:57,760
Speaker 1: these uh t bone tests where they're being a laugh.

1545
01:24:57,840 --> 01:25:00,360
Speaker 1: They all these little grill tables set up and they

1546
01:25:00,479 --> 01:25:04,719
Speaker 1: grill t bones to a certain temperature on a electric

1547
01:25:04,800 --> 01:25:07,400
Speaker 1: grill and then do a thing called a Warner Bruntler

1548
01:25:07,520 --> 01:25:10,519
Speaker 1: shear force test where they just punched three holes in

1549
01:25:10,560 --> 01:25:13,680
Speaker 1: the t bone and see how tender it is and

1550
01:25:14,800 --> 01:25:18,599
Speaker 1: just discard him. And you'd go to my brother's house

1551
01:25:18,640 --> 01:25:20,400
Speaker 1: when they were doing that, and his was like bars

1552
01:25:20,439 --> 01:25:22,240
Speaker 1: of gold stacked up in his fridge. Man, he just

1553
01:25:22,280 --> 01:25:26,040
Speaker 1: bring all those brea T bones home with whole every

1554
01:25:26,400 --> 01:25:28,080
Speaker 1: So whenever you open one up and I have like

1555
01:25:28,240 --> 01:25:32,920
Speaker 1: three holes in it, drop an egg and punches about

1556
01:25:32,920 --> 01:25:35,160
Speaker 1: a quarter inch hole. Man do it. He always called

1557
01:25:35,200 --> 01:25:38,360
Speaker 1: him his t bone testers. It was like an annual feed,

1558
01:25:38,760 --> 01:25:40,880
Speaker 1: you think, like the way grizzlies a hammer elt gut

1559
01:25:40,920 --> 01:25:43,120
Speaker 1: piles in the fall. It was like his, like it

1560
01:25:43,240 --> 01:25:45,200
Speaker 1: was like his time of year man when they were

1561
01:25:45,200 --> 01:25:49,160
Speaker 1: doing the Warrener Bruntler shear force test on way Goo

1562
01:25:49,360 --> 01:25:55,000
Speaker 1: beef Land. Concluding thoughts, I'm with Kyle, like I I

1563
01:25:55,160 --> 01:25:57,639
Speaker 1: just this is such a cool thing that's out there.

1564
01:25:57,720 --> 01:26:01,040
Speaker 1: And I think, you know, getting have Bart on this

1565
01:26:01,160 --> 01:26:03,560
Speaker 1: podcast and letting people know that there's actual caribout in

1566
01:26:03,600 --> 01:26:06,240
Speaker 1: the lower forty A is a pretty awesome thing. And

1567
01:26:06,439 --> 01:26:08,240
Speaker 1: I think more people know about it than where they're

1568
01:26:08,240 --> 01:26:10,040
Speaker 1: gonna want to do something about it when we have

1569
01:26:10,120 --> 01:26:13,280
Speaker 1: the opportunity. So, um, I think that's just I mean

1570
01:26:13,400 --> 01:26:15,719
Speaker 1: when I think about all the species have been recovered

1571
01:26:15,760 --> 01:26:17,640
Speaker 1: in the United States and how like, you know, I

1572
01:26:17,720 --> 01:26:19,400
Speaker 1: haven't been able to be a part of much of that, right, Like,

1573
01:26:19,439 --> 01:26:21,479
Speaker 1: this is still something like this and bison are still

1574
01:26:21,680 --> 01:26:24,200
Speaker 1: something we can do, which is pretty uncol They get

1575
01:26:24,200 --> 01:26:26,120
Speaker 1: a lot of attention. I mean, I wrote a whole

1576
01:26:26,160 --> 01:26:30,200
Speaker 1: damn book about him, and I think and and that's

1577
01:26:30,360 --> 01:26:32,920
Speaker 1: and that's it's you know, it's that's a much longer

1578
01:26:33,000 --> 01:26:36,559
Speaker 1: public conversation about that recovery. But with this population as

1579
01:26:36,600 --> 01:26:38,880
Speaker 1: small as it is, as unique it is, and it's

1580
01:26:38,920 --> 01:26:40,760
Speaker 1: only a localized area in the Lower forty, if they

1581
01:26:40,760 --> 01:26:43,920
Speaker 1: can even live, like that's pretty cool. Yeah, I think

1582
01:26:44,000 --> 01:26:45,960
Speaker 1: that's cool. The last thing I would say is that

1583
01:26:46,880 --> 01:26:48,680
Speaker 1: one of the things that makes b H a and

1584
01:26:49,080 --> 01:26:51,880
Speaker 1: even though that we are a small organization, is we

1585
01:26:51,960 --> 01:26:54,840
Speaker 1: have badasses that are members and badasses that are in

1586
01:26:54,880 --> 01:26:58,559
Speaker 1: our leadership. And Bart hopefully uh not hopefully, but did

1587
01:26:58,640 --> 01:27:00,720
Speaker 1: get that. Across the days he spends a ton of

1588
01:27:00,800 --> 01:27:03,240
Speaker 1: time out in the woods, um and and so he

1589
01:27:03,320 --> 01:27:05,160
Speaker 1: knows the place really well, he knows what it needs,

1590
01:27:05,200 --> 01:27:07,520
Speaker 1: and so, um, that's who we are as an organization.

1591
01:27:07,600 --> 01:27:14,960
Speaker 1: I think that's pretty Uncle. Here's my concluding thought. It's

1592
01:27:15,040 --> 01:27:19,479
Speaker 1: it's two part three part one. I agree with you too.

1593
01:27:19,600 --> 01:27:21,519
Speaker 1: I'm just getting old enough for I'm just starting to

1594
01:27:21,560 --> 01:27:23,560
Speaker 1: get like, I just don't always have a lot of

1595
01:27:23,600 --> 01:27:28,599
Speaker 1: faith in people, curmudgeon. I'm growing up. There's a friend

1596
01:27:28,640 --> 01:27:34,000
Speaker 1: of mine who told me, a Vietnam veteran, he said, Stevie,

1597
01:27:34,360 --> 01:27:39,160
Speaker 1: people never change. They say they're gonna, but they never change.

1598
01:27:40,600 --> 01:27:43,000
Speaker 1: And I just some things I'm like, as much as

1599
01:27:43,000 --> 01:27:44,760
Speaker 1: I'd like to say, I just it's just hard for

1600
01:27:44,840 --> 01:27:50,479
Speaker 1: me to picture. Uh. I hope I'm wrong. It's just

1601
01:27:51,040 --> 01:27:54,560
Speaker 1: it just haired for me to picture, um, a situation

1602
01:27:54,720 --> 01:27:56,439
Speaker 1: this die or is I wasn't that aware of till

1603
01:27:56,439 --> 01:27:57,720
Speaker 1: the day. I mean, I knew a little bit about it.

1604
01:27:58,520 --> 01:28:01,439
Speaker 1: It's just hard for me to picture that. Uh. Turning

1605
01:28:01,439 --> 01:28:06,880
Speaker 1: it around, what kind of person would you want to change?

1606
01:28:06,920 --> 01:28:09,600
Speaker 1: I don't understand what you mean. That it would be

1607
01:28:09,720 --> 01:28:11,160
Speaker 1: that it would be something that all of a sudden

1608
01:28:11,160 --> 01:28:14,360
Speaker 1: it would like get momentum. But how did it get

1609
01:28:14,439 --> 01:28:20,599
Speaker 1: this band and still no one knows about it. At

1610
01:28:20,640 --> 01:28:24,000
Speaker 1: what point did someone go, hey, these dodos are getting

1611
01:28:24,120 --> 01:28:27,240
Speaker 1: mighty thin. Do you know what I mean? Was it one?

1612
01:28:28,439 --> 01:28:31,439
Speaker 1: If there's one caribou, would people come with like you know,

1613
01:28:31,800 --> 01:28:35,720
Speaker 1: would NPR go out and do a story? Twelve is

1614
01:28:35,760 --> 01:28:39,599
Speaker 1: not good enough for you? That's what I'm saying. It's

1615
01:28:39,640 --> 01:28:42,120
Speaker 1: like that people are gonna also be like, damn, we

1616
01:28:42,200 --> 01:28:44,720
Speaker 1: need to fix this problem. It's like if if that's

1617
01:28:44,720 --> 01:28:46,559
Speaker 1: gonna happen, it seems like it's gonna have to happen

1618
01:28:46,600 --> 01:28:50,479
Speaker 1: pretty quick. That's frustrating the polar bears, or if it

1619
01:28:50,600 --> 01:28:53,400
Speaker 1: was wolves or grizzly bears or something like charismatic Like

1620
01:28:53,479 --> 01:28:57,719
Speaker 1: you said earlier, you need to hire now you people

1621
01:28:57,800 --> 01:29:01,920
Speaker 1: need to hire whatever PR agency it is, or maybe

1622
01:29:01,960 --> 01:29:04,200
Speaker 1: there isn't one, but someone's to start one that can

1623
01:29:04,439 --> 01:29:12,559
Speaker 1: sell the American public on um loving a critter. They

1624
01:29:12,640 --> 01:29:15,320
Speaker 1: did it very effectively with wolves, it was done very

1625
01:29:15,360 --> 01:29:19,559
Speaker 1: effectively with grizzly bears, very effectively with fur seals, which

1626
01:29:19,600 --> 01:29:24,320
Speaker 1: are the farthest thing from endangered. They need to go

1627
01:29:24,479 --> 01:29:26,759
Speaker 1: and be like, let's take some of that attention away

1628
01:29:27,560 --> 01:29:29,320
Speaker 1: and put it in a couple of places where it

1629
01:29:29,400 --> 01:29:33,000
Speaker 1: really is needed right now? Talk to people at cours.

1630
01:29:33,320 --> 01:29:40,719
Speaker 1: I look at my refrigerator. I'm like, okay, twelve beers. Dude,

1631
01:29:40,760 --> 01:29:43,599
Speaker 1: a beer can with a beer can with a mountain

1632
01:29:43,720 --> 01:29:52,639
Speaker 1: cariboo on it. Mountains already there, they're blue cariboos. Come on, Pete,

1633
01:29:52,680 --> 01:29:55,080
Speaker 1: step up if you're listening. Was that part one of

1634
01:29:55,160 --> 01:29:59,240
Speaker 1: my things I had? Part Part wolves I agree with land?

1635
01:29:59,400 --> 01:30:01,840
Speaker 1: Part two is I'm like, come on, yeah, how did

1636
01:30:01,960 --> 01:30:03,880
Speaker 1: I not like, like I like try to stay hip

1637
01:30:03,920 --> 01:30:06,679
Speaker 1: to this stuff? I didn't know, So I'm a little

1638
01:30:06,720 --> 01:30:09,800
Speaker 1: bit mad at myself. Part three this lion hunting we

1639
01:30:09,880 --> 01:30:13,639
Speaker 1: were talking about. Um, I am pretty I've I've chased

1640
01:30:13,680 --> 01:30:15,840
Speaker 1: a couple of lines down and dry ground out of

1641
01:30:15,880 --> 01:30:19,760
Speaker 1: the snow. Um, I'd be real eager to go out

1642
01:30:19,800 --> 01:30:22,320
Speaker 1: and look around chase lion tracks in the snow with you.

1643
01:30:22,840 --> 01:30:24,479
Speaker 1: Come on over. What's your What time of year you

1644
01:30:24,560 --> 01:30:27,200
Speaker 1: like to hit it? December fifteenth? We start in Idaho.

1645
01:30:27,760 --> 01:30:31,400
Speaker 1: How long is it wrong? Um? We can kill cats

1646
01:30:31,479 --> 01:30:34,960
Speaker 1: until about Valentine's Day mid February, and then we chase

1647
01:30:35,080 --> 01:30:39,280
Speaker 1: until March one, and then we go to Montana until

1648
01:30:39,400 --> 01:30:43,600
Speaker 1: April fift usually. But well, part uh, what part of

1649
01:30:43,600 --> 01:30:46,360
Speaker 1: the state you're hunting. You're the hunting the Panhandle Panhandle yep,

1650
01:30:46,680 --> 01:30:49,040
Speaker 1: yea up north and you're hunting lins that are mostly

1651
01:30:49,080 --> 01:30:53,759
Speaker 1: eating white tails, mostly white tails, um, some elk killers

1652
01:30:53,800 --> 01:30:58,160
Speaker 1: also elk fat and line. Yeah, yeah, the big ones.

1653
01:30:58,320 --> 01:30:59,840
Speaker 1: You know, they get big when they start eating elk

1654
01:31:00,120 --> 01:31:02,160
Speaker 1: that right, Well, yeah, it's so much food. They don't

1655
01:31:02,200 --> 01:31:03,640
Speaker 1: have to hunt us hard. They can stay put and

1656
01:31:03,760 --> 01:31:08,120
Speaker 1: just sit around and eat and get big. But yeah,

1657
01:31:10,200 --> 01:31:12,840
Speaker 1: it's good. A lot of the lions in that in

1658
01:31:13,040 --> 01:31:17,560
Speaker 1: kind of the Caribou potential area though, well, we, like

1659
01:31:17,640 --> 01:31:19,160
Speaker 1: I said earlier in the season, we try to target

1660
01:31:19,200 --> 01:31:21,680
Speaker 1: those lions up in the Cariboo Recovery area and then

1661
01:31:21,920 --> 01:31:24,000
Speaker 1: you just get snowed out and it just gets too

1662
01:31:24,120 --> 01:31:27,080
Speaker 1: hard to get up there. Um, you know, you're talking

1663
01:31:27,080 --> 01:31:30,200
Speaker 1: about eight ten ft snow up there, and the lions

1664
01:31:30,439 --> 01:31:32,720
Speaker 1: find little pockets the habitat that they can live in.

1665
01:31:32,760 --> 01:31:34,760
Speaker 1: They don't they don't travel much. It's hard to cut

1666
01:31:34,840 --> 01:31:38,400
Speaker 1: tracks because it's just kind of hold up somewhere. But

1667
01:31:38,479 --> 01:31:40,160
Speaker 1: early in the season we catched a lot of big

1668
01:31:40,320 --> 01:31:44,120
Speaker 1: Tom's coming out of that high country. They kind of

1669
01:31:44,200 --> 01:31:47,439
Speaker 1: migrate seasonally. Yeah, they move around, you know, not all

1670
01:31:47,479 --> 01:31:52,200
Speaker 1: of them. But what's a big time? Um, you know,

1671
01:31:52,200 --> 01:31:53,920
Speaker 1: a hundred and fifty pound cat is a big cat.

1672
01:31:54,439 --> 01:31:57,479
Speaker 1: Anything over that is really a nice one. Everybody talks

1673
01:31:57,520 --> 01:32:00,200
Speaker 1: about hundred sent five pound two hundred found lions. Saw

1674
01:32:00,200 --> 01:32:03,960
Speaker 1: a new biologist in Oregon, and throughout his career he'd

1675
01:32:04,000 --> 01:32:07,479
Speaker 1: worked up three hundreds. I can remember three hundred sixties

1676
01:32:07,520 --> 01:32:10,080
Speaker 1: some lions. That's a side like, I don't care how

1677
01:32:10,160 --> 01:32:12,479
Speaker 1: hard you hunt lions. It's hard to get to handle

1678
01:32:12,520 --> 01:32:15,000
Speaker 1: three hundred sixty of them. Okay. Because he ran the

1679
01:32:15,040 --> 01:32:18,240
Speaker 1: predator program in Oregon, he worked up three hundred sixties

1680
01:32:18,320 --> 01:32:23,519
Speaker 1: some and wait them okay, works him up like scientific scales.

1681
01:32:23,600 --> 01:32:27,320
Speaker 1: I think the biggest one he had was one six four. Yeah, lions,

1682
01:32:27,439 --> 01:32:31,200
Speaker 1: and that's hundreds like bears. You know, it's people get

1683
01:32:31,680 --> 01:32:34,680
Speaker 1: exaggerated weights. Um, you never run into somebody who's like,

1684
01:32:35,800 --> 01:32:41,479
Speaker 1: I saw a lion, little female, big old time come

1685
01:32:41,520 --> 01:32:44,639
Speaker 1: around the corner. Everyone, So you're good with lions, dude,

1686
01:32:44,920 --> 01:32:46,639
Speaker 1: Not only did you know it was big, you could

1687
01:32:46,640 --> 01:32:51,679
Speaker 1: you gender that in the dark, big old time quota

1688
01:32:51,760 --> 01:32:54,320
Speaker 1: up there though. She can take any cat. Yeah, we

1689
01:32:54,920 --> 01:32:57,639
Speaker 1: you know, we don't really pick on the females too, much. Um,

1690
01:32:59,080 --> 01:33:01,680
Speaker 1: just because we're guiding up there. We don't want to

1691
01:33:01,720 --> 01:33:04,320
Speaker 1: put ourselves out of business, so um, we try to

1692
01:33:04,360 --> 01:33:07,880
Speaker 1: take Tom's Uh. There are hunters that kill females out

1693
01:33:07,880 --> 01:33:09,800
Speaker 1: of there though. Do you guys treat females or pull

1694
01:33:09,840 --> 01:33:12,200
Speaker 1: the dogs off when it's a female. If there's young,

1695
01:33:12,240 --> 01:33:14,240
Speaker 1: we'll pull the dogs, but we treat them. Um, it's

1696
01:33:14,280 --> 01:33:16,800
Speaker 1: good for the dogs. We we you know, we maybe

1697
01:33:16,920 --> 01:33:20,280
Speaker 1: kill the cats that we treat. We have a lot

1698
01:33:20,320 --> 01:33:21,519
Speaker 1: of clients that that just like to go out and

1699
01:33:21,560 --> 01:33:22,960
Speaker 1: take pictures and do that kind of stuff. And a

1700
01:33:23,040 --> 01:33:25,160
Speaker 1: lot of hunters, you know, I want to come out

1701
01:33:25,200 --> 01:33:26,840
Speaker 1: and just see a cat or hunt for a week,

1702
01:33:26,880 --> 01:33:28,439
Speaker 1: and we might treat three or four before they find

1703
01:33:28,560 --> 01:33:30,880
Speaker 1: one that they want. It's probably good for the females

1704
01:33:30,960 --> 01:33:32,880
Speaker 1: that you treat them because it wises them up. Sure,

1705
01:33:33,280 --> 01:33:35,880
Speaker 1: it wise them up. Um, they're less likely climate tree

1706
01:33:35,920 --> 01:33:38,479
Speaker 1: when they hear a dog bark and probably want to

1707
01:33:38,520 --> 01:33:40,360
Speaker 1: keep running. I don't know. I don't know about that.

1708
01:33:40,360 --> 01:33:41,760
Speaker 1: I think they might be more likely. I think they

1709
01:33:41,840 --> 01:33:43,960
Speaker 1: might well if you let them go. Oh yeah, no,

1710
01:33:44,080 --> 01:33:46,160
Speaker 1: I got you. So maybe it doesn't wise them more.

1711
01:33:46,920 --> 01:33:50,000
Speaker 1: Like the thing to do is climate tree, right, well,

1712
01:33:50,400 --> 01:33:52,080
Speaker 1: maybe just get up a tree and we're gonna get

1713
01:33:52,080 --> 01:33:53,880
Speaker 1: your picture taken and i'm gonna get her asked for

1714
01:33:53,880 --> 01:33:56,439
Speaker 1: a little bit by the dogs. But yeah, you're right,

1715
01:33:56,520 --> 01:33:58,679
Speaker 1: you're right. It doesn't wise them up. That's a good point,

1716
01:33:59,280 --> 01:34:02,040
Speaker 1: all right, me your podcast, Thanks tuning in.