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Speaker 1: Hi. This is Laura Vandercamp. I'm a mother of five,

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Speaker 1: an author, journalist, and speaker. And this is Sarah hart Unger.

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Speaker 1: I'm a mother of three, a practicing physician and blogger.

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Speaker 1: On the side, we are two working parents who love

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Speaker 1: our careers and our families. Welcome to best of both worlds.

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Speaker 1: Here we talk about how real women manage work, family,

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Speaker 1: and time for fun, from figuring out childcare to mapping

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Speaker 1: out long term career goals. We want you to get

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Speaker 1: the most out of life. Welcome to best of both worlds.

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Speaker 1: This is Laura. This is episode one hundred and forty seven,

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Speaker 1: which is first airing in late May. We are going

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Speaker 1: to be talking summer books, interviewing our great friend Kaj

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Speaker 1: who is the author of The Chicken Sisters, which is

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Speaker 1: coming out this summer. And she's going to be talking

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Speaker 1: books and reading and getting kids to read and all

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Speaker 1: those great topics. I think she's their first repeat guest. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: she is, So there we go. We're having her around again.

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Speaker 1: We loved her so much the first time. So, Sarah,

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Speaker 1: you have summer reading lists? I do not right. You

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Speaker 1: made your twenty twenty reading list early. No, I didn't

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Speaker 1: think a couple of year I didn't know. I do

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Speaker 1: it like by quintile or whatever, because and then if

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Speaker 1: I like find something that I think will be like

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Speaker 1: a great read for a particular time of year, I

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Speaker 1: might like stick it down preliminarily. But no, I don't

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Speaker 1: have like all the books I want to read for

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty, because then that wouldn't leave any room for

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Speaker 1: like new stuff that comes out or things I don't

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Speaker 1: know about, or things I hear about from kJ or

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Speaker 1: from an Vogel, So you know, got to leave space.

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Speaker 1: But last year I did based on the modern Missus

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Speaker 1: Darcy Summer Reading Guide I created. I think that was

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Speaker 1: the first time I decided to do like a pre

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Speaker 1: done list kind of ahead of time, and I really

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Speaker 1: enjoyed that, like having something like twelve books that I

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Speaker 1: had picked out ahead of time that I was like,

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Speaker 1: this is going to be my reading summer, so I

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Speaker 1: don't have to keep thinking about what I'm going to

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Speaker 1: read next because I already will know kind of what's

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Speaker 1: on the docket. And it helped me manage my library

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Speaker 1: reserve list really proactively, which is not something I had

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Speaker 1: really done before. I miss my library reserve list our

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Speaker 1: libraries are not currently open. I know some areas are

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Speaker 1: doing pickup and stuff at the library. I don't think

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Speaker 1: ours have gotten to that yet. But yeah, I really

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Speaker 1: enjoyed doing that and I think I will do it again.

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Speaker 1: So I'm excited to maybe get some ideas from kJ.

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Speaker 1: And then also I know that this is airing at

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Speaker 1: the end of May, and the Modern Missus Darcy Guide

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Speaker 1: comes out mid May. I believe it's like May fourteenth

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Speaker 1: for subscribers and then like the fifteenth or sixteenth for

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Speaker 1: other people. So yeah, so I had one here isn't

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Speaker 1: already reading her blog or listening to her podcast that's

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Speaker 1: Modern Missus Darcy dot com and the What Should I

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Speaker 1: Read Next? Podcast? And she has a great books list

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Speaker 1: that comes out every year, and she has also been

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Speaker 1: a guest also a world So yeah, what about you?

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Speaker 1: Have you read anything good lately? Do you have any

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Speaker 1: do you like to lighten up your reading for the summer.

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Speaker 1: I feel like you've been in a very heavy reading streak.

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Speaker 1: I don't know I've been a heavy light reading share.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what sort of reading I'm in at

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Speaker 1: the moment. I'm just not in a brain space for

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Speaker 1: a whole lot of I well, partly in the past

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Speaker 1: few weeks. I've been cranking out a whole book myself

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Speaker 1: in a period of about three weeks, so I have

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Speaker 1: not had any excess capacity for dealing with words. So

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Speaker 1: hopefully I will get back to reading at some point.

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Speaker 1: I need something light, but I don't even know. I

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Speaker 1: haven't been able to even do much of fiction light. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so Sarah's holding up? Then nothing, just me here book.

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Speaker 1: You think I should read it, or you think I

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Speaker 1: should very light, it's very weird. You might hate it.

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Speaker 1: I loved it, okay, but as I read it, he

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Speaker 1: why you think I would hate it? Because you're going

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Speaker 1: to be like he used a weird literary device and

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Speaker 1: it doesn't really make sense, which is fairly like. Really

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Speaker 1: enjoyed reading it, and it brought out a lot of

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Speaker 1: interesting thought patterns for me, and it was one of

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Speaker 1: those books I just wanted to tear through. All Right,

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Speaker 1: well we go and maybe I'll give it all enjoyed.

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Speaker 1: I enjoyed it a lot, but it has very mixed

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Speaker 1: reviews and it's weird, and I even was literally thinking

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Speaker 1: to myself, I think Laura would hate this. Well, maybe

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Speaker 1: I'll read it just to hate read it, because sometimes

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Speaker 1: there's a short book and I feel like I got

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Speaker 1: through it. I don't know anyway, No, I just read.

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Speaker 1: As we're recording this, I finished The Boys of Summer,

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Speaker 1: which is Roger Kahn's book about the early nineteen fifties

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Speaker 1: Brooklyn Dodgers. Oh that sounds down I have been reading.

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Speaker 1: There's so many books about the early nineteen fifties Brooklyn Dodgers,

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Speaker 1: And partly it's because it was when Jackie Robinson was

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Speaker 1: on the team, and so there's a lot that you

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Speaker 1: know is going on with that, which which is also

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Speaker 1: sort of fun to get to read about Jackie Robinson

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Speaker 1: in the moment, which, of course, now he's become the

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Speaker 1: sort of like saintly figure in history of you know

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Speaker 1: what he did obviously the pioneering of integrating Major League baseball.

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Speaker 1: But you know, he was a tough, aggressive guy. And

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Speaker 1: I mean it like you think about it. You know that,

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Speaker 1: of course, because what he's known for is stuff like

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Speaker 1: stealing home base, Like you don't get that when you're

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Speaker 1: like the sort of he put on. He had some

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Speaker 1: of this mild mannered front because he was told, like

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Speaker 1: you have to like not react right, when people are

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Speaker 1: screaming at you, when people are calling you horrible things,

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Speaker 1: like to get this integration to happen, you have to

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Speaker 1: be calm and not react to it. But of course,

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Speaker 1: and on the field, he was like the most amazingly

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Speaker 1: aggressive player ever, and so it's kind of fun to

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Speaker 1: read that part of it as well. But anyway, so

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Speaker 1: a lot of people have written about this team, you know,

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Speaker 1: Doris Karens Goodwin wrote about like maybe next year or

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Speaker 1: this something like I forget exactly the name, but she

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Speaker 1: was a big fan as well. There are a lot

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Speaker 1: of good writers who grew up in the nineteen fifties

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Speaker 1: in Brooklyn, so there's sort of that aspect of it too.

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Speaker 1: But anyways, it was a reasonable book because he uses

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Speaker 1: the device of he was a young reporter for the

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Speaker 1: Tribune Herald when he covered the Dodgers and then he

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Speaker 1: went back to revisit all of them later. That sounds familiar. Well,

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Speaker 1: turns out it's a device many people have yoused, so

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Speaker 1: he clearly used it before I did, since he wrote

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Speaker 1: this book. And I'm referring to Laura's novel The Courtland Boys,

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Speaker 1: which also features a young reporter, lends me a little

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Speaker 1: bit of my podcast co host. It goes back to

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Speaker 1: and it's a great book. Actually it would be a

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Speaker 1: fun summer read. So but yes, you need to get it,

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Speaker 1: you need to get it paper published because I think

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Speaker 1: it's well, I think it warrants it's that good. All right,

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Speaker 1: Well I will well we'll see about that anyway. All right,

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Speaker 1: So now we're going to talk Kj's recommendations for summer reading.

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Speaker 1: So looking forward to this. Well, Sarah and I are

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Speaker 1: delighted to welcome kJ Delantonia back to the program. She,

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Speaker 1: as we said the intro, is our first repeat guest.

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Speaker 1: We were talking about her book, How to Be a

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Speaker 1: Happier Parent. I guess it was a year two years ago.

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Speaker 1: Two years ago, now two years ago now that's when

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Speaker 1: it came out. But she is back with a because

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Speaker 1: she has another book out called The Chicken Sisters, which

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Speaker 1: is her first novel. But she is also going to

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Speaker 1: share some great summer reading pics for us, so we're

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Speaker 1: very excited about that. So Kaj, welcome back. Thank you

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Speaker 1: for having me back. And I'm so excited. There are

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Speaker 1: so many good books coming this summer and I'm really

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Speaker 1: like dying to share them all right, well, let's do it.

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Speaker 1: I mean, Sarah and I can literally just mute ourselves

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Speaker 1: and just let you. We'll do a few questions, but

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Speaker 1: go ahead, you know us, what do we need to

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Speaker 1: read this? As far as I'm concerned, you're invited back

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Speaker 1: yearly for summer reading, so you can just put that

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Speaker 1: into calendar for next year. I love it there, I mean, really,

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Speaker 1: there's so much good stuff coming out. Some of it

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Speaker 1: is really obvious stuff that people have heard about. Catherine

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Speaker 1: Center has a new book. It's called What You Wish For.

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Speaker 1: She had pretty big hits, a big hit last summer

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Speaker 1: with Things You Save in the Fire. And I've already

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Speaker 1: read some of the things I'm recommend I have read,

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Speaker 1: and some of them I haven't. What you Wish For.

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Speaker 1: I was lucky enough to get in an arc, and

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Speaker 1: if you like Catherine Center, it's going it's going to

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Speaker 1: satisfy everything you want from her. It's got all the

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Speaker 1: pieces for a great summer read. A protagonist with a

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Speaker 1: problem and a challenge, and an exciting not an exciting,

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Speaker 1: but like sort of a I love books that get

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Speaker 1: dive into a workspace that I don't work into, and

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Speaker 1: this one's in a school and I like that romance,

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Speaker 1: but the romance isn't necessarily completely at the center of

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Speaker 1: the book and just and all that satisfying stuff where

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Speaker 1: there's somebody that you would really like to see get theirs.

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Speaker 1: That can be really fun in a summer read, you

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Speaker 1: know what I mean. So that's a good one. Jen

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Speaker 1: Winer has one coming out, can't miss that. Kristin Higgins

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Speaker 1: has one coming out. That's a great one. But I

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Speaker 1: wanted to focus also on some debuts, some people that

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Speaker 1: have books coming out that you know, we haven't heard

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Speaker 1: from yet. So I'm really excited, full disclosure, haven't read

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Speaker 1: this yet, so I'm showing it to you guys because

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Speaker 1: you're on the video. But yeah, that's kind of unfair.

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Speaker 1: You're going to have to describe the same name. And

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Speaker 1: I don't have all the books. So this is Suzanne Nugent.

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Speaker 1: She is a TV writer and a very funny presence

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Speaker 1: on Instagram at least us where she is I think

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Speaker 1: sus Nuge, which I like. And this is called Brunch

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Speaker 1: and Other Obligations. It's getting a lot of buzz and

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Speaker 1: it strikes me as sort of let's just say that

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Speaker 1: the fourth word on the blurb is Bookworm. You had

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Speaker 1: me at Bookworm? Fine? And is that a novel because

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Speaker 1: that one's a novel. Yeah, I'm really heavy on the novels.

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Speaker 1: I didn't. I only have a couple of nonfiction ideas.

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Speaker 1: So I'm hoping some of you that you guys have

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Speaker 1: some Summer is a novel kind of a time, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean, Jenny, what do you guys like to read

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Speaker 1: during the summer. I like, I like to have like

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Speaker 1: a balanced list. I want, I want a novel, but

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Speaker 1: I often I like to have a especially as summer

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Speaker 1: gets on and gets on and starts to end. I

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Speaker 1: like to have some books that sort of are inspiring

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Speaker 1: to me to move into fall, like Laura's books often

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Speaker 1: fill that role a Gretchen Rubin books. I've got a

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Speaker 1: couple of good ideas for that. But yeah, I would

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Speaker 1: definitely like the sit by the pool stack where you're

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Speaker 1: like looking forward to each and every one of them. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but the beginning of summer and end of summer can

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Speaker 1: have a different vibe. That's yeah. Yeah, that's absolute late

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Speaker 1: And I think you want some balance in it, Like

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Speaker 1: you want some things to be the sort of candy

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Speaker 1: of reading, the light stuff and maybe you want something

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Speaker 1: that's a little more literary, or maybe has a little

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Speaker 1: drop of it has a little of maybe a harsher harsh.

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Speaker 1: Isn't the word a bigger emotional vibe like more? You know? So,

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Speaker 1: so you want some capers, and you want some big emotions,

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Speaker 1: and maybe you want there was another there was a thriller.

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Speaker 1: You might want to throw a thriller in there, or

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Speaker 1: you might not. I usually put a sci fi in

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Speaker 1: the thriller category because I'm more of a sci fi

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Speaker 1: girl than a thriller. But I do have some really

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Speaker 1: fun thrilling ideas well. Why don't you give us first,

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Speaker 1: like a book or two, the total Pool read. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so let's say pool read, and then we can do

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Speaker 1: maybe literary, and then we can do the sci fi type. Perfect, Okay,

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Speaker 1: all right, total pool Read. Well, I'll plug my own

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Speaker 1: chicken sisters pluck Total Pool Read. That's exactly where it fits.

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Speaker 1: But even even more so, Abby Waxman has a new

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Speaker 1: one coming out. She had The Bookish Life of Nina

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Speaker 1: Hill last year. Lots of people really love that, including me. Again,

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Speaker 1: you had me at Bookish. This one is called I

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Speaker 1: was told it would get easier and it is. It's

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Speaker 1: the story of a mom and a kid on a

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Speaker 1: college tour, which has now become science fiction. But oh well,

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Speaker 1: and she's just really good. I think this is her

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Speaker 1: it's either her fourth or her fifth book, so you're

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Speaker 1: in really solid hands, Like she's gonna You're gonna romp

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Speaker 1: along with these people and it's gonna work. Same thing

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Speaker 1: with Amy Popple p Oe p p e l. She

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Speaker 1: has Musical Chairs coming out. It's not out till July,

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Speaker 1: so you gotta kind of a wait for that one.

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Speaker 1: But again, it's going to be like you can count

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Speaker 1: on her. I think this is her aget third or

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Speaker 1: fourth book, and she's gonna nail it, like it's not

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Speaker 1: going to sort of flake out at the landing or

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Speaker 1: something like that. A debut that's out right now that

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Speaker 1: I'm so excited about but has not yet landed in

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Speaker 1: my mailbox because everything is a little slow is Emily

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Speaker 1: Henry's Beach Read. So this is classic. First of all,

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Speaker 1: good titling, Emily Henry. Props to you anytime you put beach.

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Speaker 1: I think I'm going to write a book called Summer

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Speaker 1: Beach Vacation Nantucket Bookstore that will just that'll just cover

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Speaker 1: all of it. Oh, vacation, summer beach nantucket bookstore, vacation,

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Speaker 1: and everyone will just flock to it anyway. Beach Read

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Speaker 1: is it's a romance writer and a literary fiction author

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Speaker 1: in sharing a beach house for you know whatever reasons,

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Speaker 1: and theychallenge each other to only read in their genre

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Speaker 1: for the summer. Yeah, I could see Sarah nodding. I know,

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Speaker 1: I know me too, me too. You've got me with that.

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Speaker 1: So haven't read it yet, but I'm really excited about it.

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Speaker 1: And then I've got Laura Hankins happy and you know

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Speaker 1: it here that I haven't read yet. I think it's

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Speaker 1: probably gonna it's kind of kind of fit into the

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Speaker 1: classic if you liked, if you liked, Oh yeah, it

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Speaker 1: goes and minor catastrophes is the right kid? Oh what

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Speaker 1: is it? Oh? This is awful? I love this book. Well, kJ,

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Speaker 1: why don't you think about it. We're going to take

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Speaker 1: a short ad break and you can think about it.

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Speaker 1: We'll be back in just a minute. Well, we are

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Speaker 1: back with kJ del Antonia, who is talking Summer Beach Reads.

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Speaker 1: And she left us with a hook right before the

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Speaker 1: ad break that she was comparing this book to something else,

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Speaker 1: which was Minor Dramas and Other Catastrophes by Kathleen West.

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Speaker 1: All Right, that one's already out. I read it. I

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Speaker 1: loved it. It would make it good, it would it

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Speaker 1: would make a very fun sit by the sit by

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Speaker 1: the beach read it. It's it's another school It's another

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Speaker 1: hothouse parent helicopter school book. But I happen to like

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Speaker 1: hothouse parents helicopter school books, so that one totally works.

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Speaker 1: So those, those are those are going to be like

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Speaker 1: my beach read. Let's see, I have anything else on

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Speaker 1: the beach beach beach that was kind of thrillery. Oh

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Speaker 1: so if you like a beach tier jerker, you might

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Speaker 1: want to look for You and Me and Us by

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Speaker 1: Alison hum Hammer. It's new, it's out just I think

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Speaker 1: it just came out in April. I think that's gonna work.

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Speaker 1: Or if you want your beach reads to be historical,

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Speaker 1: I kind of I thought about, like, because that's a thing, right,

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Speaker 1: there's the thriller tear or the beach read teer Jerker.

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Speaker 1: If you want a historical beach read, you might check

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Speaker 1: out the Jane Austen Society Once again excellent titling. Natalie Jenner,

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Speaker 1: you had us at Jane Austen. This one is a

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Speaker 1: group of people in I forget if it's right after.

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Speaker 1: I think it's wide after World War two. Might be

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Speaker 1: in the early fifties coming together to save a Jane

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Speaker 1: Austen related house. So got a little history but not

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Speaker 1: too much. Sounded really big there. Yeah, And if you want,

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Speaker 1: if you want one more, one more stuff, one more

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Speaker 1: beach read East Coast Girls by Carrie Clutter. I think

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Speaker 1: that one is the beach read with the inner mystery.

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Speaker 1: So if you like that, the group of people with

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Speaker 1: a secret, that's that's going to be your East Coast

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Speaker 1: Girls Carrie Clutter. That is getting amazing buzz the goodreads reviews,

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Speaker 1: and believe me, goodreads are people are savages. People are

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Speaker 1: people are really good reading savages, the good Reads savages.

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Speaker 1: The good read savages really like it. So that is

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Speaker 1: a good sign. All right, So, kJ we've got our

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Speaker 1: beach reads. Now if we want to go a little

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Speaker 1: more literary, what what should we? What should we? So?

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Speaker 1: Sometimes I not last summer so much, but the past

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Speaker 1: two summers I've tried to tackle one of those longer

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Speaker 1: big books that you know was Daughter, Yeah, Christian Lemon's Daughter.

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Speaker 1: I did the uh George Elliott Middle March. Oh cool

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Speaker 1: at one point, and that was that was good. So

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Speaker 1: tell us what can we read? Maybe not that long,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, I don't. I don't have anything on here

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Speaker 1: that is that long. Oh my gosh, I missed. I

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Speaker 1: missed a total be tread. We'll come. I'll come back

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Speaker 1: to it. I just circled it, totally coming back to

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Speaker 1: that one. So with the literary stuff, I just I

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Speaker 1: have a couple of that aren't out yet that I'm

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Speaker 1: excited about. One's called Motherland. It's by Leah Frankie f

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Speaker 1: r A and q u I. And this is going

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Speaker 1: to be an immigrant style American story. It is. And

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Speaker 1: what I've the reason I picked the ones I picked

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Speaker 1: is that they're like literary beach reads. They have some

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Speaker 1: of the elements of things that make things easy to read.

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Speaker 1: They have relatable protagonists. They have this one's got the

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Speaker 1: restaurant scene it and I love it a book that's

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Speaker 1: got restaurant scenes in it, and yet they tend to

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Speaker 1: tackle some bigger societal issues in a more overt way.

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Speaker 1: A lot of beach reads tackle societal issues too, but

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Speaker 1: it's it's lighter, they're more on the side. So there's Motherland.

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Speaker 1: And then I also pulled out Empire of Wild. I

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Speaker 1: haven't Yeah, I haven't read either of these yet, although

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Speaker 1: I actually have them, but they're This one's kind of

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Speaker 1: got a weird This is a weird, fably vibe to it.

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Speaker 1: The back is that it's inspired by the traditional Canadian

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Speaker 1: metist legend of the room Go, a werewolf like creature

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Speaker 1: that haunts the roads and woods of Native people's communities.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, once you say the words native people's you're

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Speaker 1: basically in literary character because that's just typically you are.

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Speaker 1: It shouldn't be that way. Let's have some Native people

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Speaker 1: romance baked romance novels too, absolutely, but it often happens

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Speaker 1: that way, and that's kind of where we are. And

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Speaker 1: then I brought in writers and lovers from Lily King,

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Speaker 1: which is already at and is getting a lot of buzz.

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Speaker 1: It's Jenna's book Club on the star or are on

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Speaker 1: the sticker. Lots of people are reading it. Haven't read

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Speaker 1: it yet, but that'll be. Those are going to be

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Speaker 1: my sort of serving of of stuff that's a little

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Speaker 1: bit deeper, and I feel like I wrote down one other. Oh,

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Speaker 1: you guys might want to look for The All Night

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Speaker 1: Sun by Diane Zenna. This one's literary and takes place

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Speaker 1: in Sweden, and it's about it's sort of one of

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Speaker 1: those kind of slightly dark women's fiction or women's friendship books.

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Speaker 1: Sounded sounds sounds super fun and is my Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: like all my buttons right there. Yeah, well that The

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Speaker 1: All Night Sun right so, and in the summer, so

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Speaker 1: you know, you know, you got you got some pieces

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Speaker 1: of that that you're already picturing. We're halfway there, halfway there, yes,

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Speaker 1: And so these are literary books that aren't going to

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Speaker 1: then put you into a thirty seven page stream of

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Speaker 1: consciousness thing. So no, yeah, I have not recommended My

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Speaker 1: Struggle or anything like that. Yeah, I've been waiting for

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Speaker 1: my I feel that my fourteen year old boy maybe

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Speaker 1: penning a book called My Struggle downstairs even as we speak,

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Speaker 1: and it's featured. It's like you zoom calls and too

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Speaker 1: much homework, and every day he comes into my room

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Speaker 1: and presents a monologue from My Struggle, and I just

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Speaker 1: want to go just capture this all. You're such a

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Speaker 1: man already. Well, we had we had a funny little

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Speaker 1: I mean in terms of like summer reads sort of things.

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Speaker 1: That So my oldest son, Jasper is writing a novel

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Speaker 1: which is which is about vamp hires. But we had

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Speaker 1: a bit of a sad crisis yesterday because he's calling

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Speaker 1: it Midnight and it turns out that Stephanie Meyer is

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Speaker 1: coming out with a vampire. That's that's what she called it.

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Speaker 1: We didn't even mention that for your your summer read,

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Speaker 1: but yes, Stephanie memer Meyer is surprising us all with

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Speaker 1: a gift novel in August. It's called Midnight. Oh that's true,

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Speaker 1: and maybe Midnight Sun maybe getting at the whole sweet

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Speaker 1: I don't know, but yeah, I wonder if he could

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Speaker 1: like slightly off because there's lots of books that have

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Speaker 1: like similar titles similar and in fact that might benefit

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Speaker 1: him because once it hits Amazon, they'll be searching for

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Speaker 1: Midnight and they'll see this other fook. So midnight in

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Speaker 1: Midnight because Midnight. Yes, I'm enjoying it so far. All right,

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Speaker 1: I have a vampire book for Okay, I don't know

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Speaker 1: that it's for Jasper, but maybe it'll it'll help you

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Speaker 1: with his Vampa. It'll so this is out already, super fun.

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Speaker 1: I talked about it on Instagram. I think last week.

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Speaker 1: It's the Southern book Club Club's Guide to Vampire Slighing.

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Speaker 1: They had me at nineties book Club turned Buffy the

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Speaker 1: Vampire Slayer. But it actually this, it's a it's a

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Speaker 1: more Seriously, this is not a romp. It's actually almost

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Speaker 1: a literary vampire thriller. There is a real thread of

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Speaker 1: societal justice and feminism in particular gender issues, all kinds

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Speaker 1: of interesting stuff going on in this book that was

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Speaker 1: totally unexpected for me. Plus it is in fact a

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Speaker 1: thriller about a Southern book club having to tackle a vampire.

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Speaker 1: There's no spoilers there, and then it's bizarrely realistic, like

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Speaker 1: you buy it. It's not Buffy where you know she

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Speaker 1: she stabs the vampire and somehow the body's waffed away

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Speaker 1: into the sunset. It's very detailed. Anyway, it's really it's

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Speaker 1: fun and worthy and vampires feminist vampires is an interesting concept.

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Speaker 1: The vampires are not the vampires, not the feminist no no,

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Speaker 1: no no, that is in fact part of the problem. Okay,

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Speaker 1: oh well, a feminists, the empires are not feminists, but nobody.

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Speaker 1: This is the nineties, so nobody is a feminist in

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Speaker 1: the nineties. I don't remember if it's Nashville or it's

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Speaker 1: not Nashville, but it's in the nineties and something somewhere

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Speaker 1: like this, No one is a feminist. That's interesting. It's

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Speaker 1: from these these premises and these titles you're sharing. I

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Speaker 1: feel like the industry may have upped its game in

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Speaker 1: terms of the mash up slash you know, it's interesting

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Speaker 1: note that. I mean either they're just following what people

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Speaker 1: really like to read and that there's something to that.

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Speaker 1: I mean, a book is a product, so you know

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Speaker 1: that people like bookstores and Jane Austen and vampires and

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Speaker 1: Midnight Sun, like why not? Like I think it might

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Speaker 1: need just me like the way I'm talking about them,

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Speaker 1: because that's my I have a book coming out and

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Speaker 1: it's a global pandemic, and so figuring out how to

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Speaker 1: market it and talk about it and so that people

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Speaker 1: want to read it has been really challenging, and I've

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Speaker 1: got my eyes really out big on how other people

424
00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:14,240
Speaker 1: are marketing their books. My podcast so co host Serena

425
00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:17,560
Speaker 1: Bowen is a multi best selling romance novel and what

426
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:20,439
Speaker 1: she doesn't know about marketing a book online. She's an

427
00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:24,880
Speaker 1: indie author, nobody, nobody knows, and so we just spend

428
00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:27,080
Speaker 1: a lot of time on like, Okay, what are the

429
00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:29,199
Speaker 1: three things in that book that make you want to

430
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:31,840
Speaker 1: read it? And so that's that's kind of the way

431
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:35,120
Speaker 1: my mind has been working out working lately, also because

432
00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:37,760
Speaker 1: I've been putting these books on Instagram and trying to

433
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:41,040
Speaker 1: share debut authors. I want to give people the stuff

434
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:42,520
Speaker 1: that makes them want to read it, and that's what

435
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:44,840
Speaker 1: makes me want to read it. Do you feel like

436
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:48,639
Speaker 1: readers are interested in any particular you know, the themes

437
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,040
Speaker 1: that you just mentioned, Yes, but like are there also

438
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:53,520
Speaker 1: like well, So, first of all, I will say that

439
00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:56,359
Speaker 1: it's interesting that there are no like post apocalyptic type

440
00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:58,160
Speaker 1: books that are popular now because I think it's too

441
00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:00,760
Speaker 1: close to home. I'm serious, Like I think it was

442
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:03,719
Speaker 1: Station eleven can come out in twenty twenty, Like no,

443
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:06,560
Speaker 1: but are people looking for coziness? Like what are they?

444
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:09,600
Speaker 1: What do you find that people are seeking in these

445
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:12,840
Speaker 1: current times? It seems like people are looking for distraction

446
00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:15,720
Speaker 1: and they're not bothered by the fact that the distraction

447
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:18,159
Speaker 1: inherently has to take place in a book that is

448
00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:21,680
Speaker 1: before you know, because nobody's yet written and I don't

449
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:25,400
Speaker 1: as an author, I don't know that I even want

450
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:28,600
Speaker 1: to write. If I were an indie romance writer, I

451
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:31,639
Speaker 1: might write a short story Seid in COVID and just

452
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 1: put it out like that would be kind of fun,

453
00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:36,920
Speaker 1: But I don't know that. Book wise. I don't think

454
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:39,159
Speaker 1: we can't really do anything with it until we know

455
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:42,720
Speaker 1: where it's going. It would be very hard to just anyway.

456
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:44,639
Speaker 1: Kind of like all the nine to eleven books that

457
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:46,600
Speaker 1: have come out in the last like five years or so,

458
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:49,280
Speaker 1: like we couldn't They couldn't have come out in yeah,

459
00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:51,560
Speaker 1: two thousand and three or something. No, I mean somebody

460
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:54,199
Speaker 1: was able to do something fairly quickly on and it

461
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:56,520
Speaker 1: worked because of the way that they approached it. So

462
00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:59,240
Speaker 1: that some brilliant person will come up with that stuff.

463
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:02,080
Speaker 1: But yeah, I probably wouldn't be I'm not an apocalyptic

464
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:06,000
Speaker 1: reader anyway. You know. I'm still having nightmares for reading

465
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:10,359
Speaker 1: The Stand as a teenager, so I probably wouldn't be

466
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:13,160
Speaker 1: sitting here with those. Although I did bring some thrillers.

467
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:15,480
Speaker 1: Well before we get to those, OKAYJ, I want to

468
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 1: make sure you get a chance to tell our listeners

469
00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:20,679
Speaker 1: about the Chicken Sisters. And you know, you mentioned a

470
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,840
Speaker 1: little bit about marketing your book during the pandemic, but

471
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:27,439
Speaker 1: sort of what how this is shaping how people are

472
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:30,200
Speaker 1: you know, launching books now since clearly, I mean we're

473
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:34,000
Speaker 1: not going to bookstores places or not going speaking tours

474
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:36,560
Speaker 1: or anything like that. So what all the people I

475
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:38,359
Speaker 1: was hoping to go meet and all the you know,

476
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:42,960
Speaker 1: bookstore table placement doesn't matter right now, Airport bookstores, woohoo,

477
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:47,400
Speaker 1: you know, all the things that used to help push

478
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:51,199
Speaker 1: a book along, and now we're really uh, you know,

479
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:56,160
Speaker 1: it's it's all online, and it's not really clear whether

480
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:59,400
Speaker 1: people want to go to book events online if you've

481
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,520
Speaker 1: got a name already, sure, Jen Winer is getting people

482
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 1: to come to her her book events online online. Sorry,

483
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:08,760
Speaker 1: when Kristin Higgins releases hers, people will come listen to

484
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:12,479
Speaker 1: her talk about it. Me not so much. I you know,

485
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 1: I I've not I'm just not that person. So there's

486
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:23,480
Speaker 1: just this real I mean, there's a lot of anxiety around.

487
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:27,199
Speaker 1: I can reach my people like I can reach the

488
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 1: five thousand people who follow me on such and such

489
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:31,359
Speaker 1: on the X thousand who follow me on Twitter, but

490
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:33,560
Speaker 1: they're not all interested in fiction, they're not all going

491
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:35,639
Speaker 1: to buy the book, and so to try to push

492
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 1: beyond our individual social media bubbles is kind of the challenge.

493
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:42,479
Speaker 1: And I think what we're seeing is authors trying to

494
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 1: at the very minimum, share their own social media bubbles.

495
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:48,320
Speaker 1: So we're seeing stuff like a mighty Blaze where a

496
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 1: couple of you know, neither of them is a super

497
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 1: famous author, but they're just a couple of fiction authors

498
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:59,439
Speaker 1: have come together to just gather everyone and say, let's,

499
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:01,679
Speaker 1: you know, let to try to use all our various

500
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:05,199
Speaker 1: platforms to spread everyone out. And that is the really

501
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:07,160
Speaker 1: great thing about being a writer. And we've talked about

502
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:09,800
Speaker 1: this on the Unwriting Podcast, or one of the many things.

503
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 1: Nobody buys just one book, like I can give you

504
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 1: this whole nobody goes and just like I will buy

505
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:19,679
Speaker 1: a beach Read for my whole life or even for

506
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:22,920
Speaker 1: this year, I'm gonna buy my one. But there. I mean, yes,

507
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,639
Speaker 1: some people don't buy her, but most book readers leave

508
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:29,439
Speaker 1: with you knows, there's a reason books bookstack is a

509
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:32,719
Speaker 1: hashtag anyway, so we can share. And that's what I've

510
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:35,680
Speaker 1: been really working to do, is share other people's work,

511
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:37,920
Speaker 1: and also to go ahead and just outright ask will

512
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:40,600
Speaker 1: you please share mine? I think people would like, you know,

513
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:43,400
Speaker 1: people who like people who like Abby Waxman's books are

514
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:46,879
Speaker 1: gonna like the Chicken Sisters, people who like Ellen Hildebrand.

515
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:50,040
Speaker 1: That's a big name, so it's sort of a big ask.

516
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:52,240
Speaker 1: But I don't know her. I'm not asking her to

517
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 1: do anything, but that's that's where my book fits. So

518
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 1: knowing where you fit and then trying to find the

519
00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 1: readers of those books that don't already know about you,

520
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:04,200
Speaker 1: that is the challenge. Well, I I'm just curious as

521
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:07,480
Speaker 1: to what book sales are doing, because I've actually bought

522
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:10,200
Speaker 1: more books in the last two months than I've bought

523
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:13,159
Speaker 1: in the last two years because the library is no

524
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:15,679
Speaker 1: longer an option. So I would think that for the

525
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 1: right types of reads, and also you know that that

526
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,960
Speaker 1: escapist instinct, right books are a lovely way to go

527
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 1: to another time in another place, which I know a

528
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:25,640
Speaker 1: lot of people are looking for right now. So I'm

529
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:29,200
Speaker 1: sending you positive vibes. I think people will buy. Yeah,

530
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:33,159
Speaker 1: apparently the situation is not totally dire with respect to

531
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:36,520
Speaker 1: book sales. There they're still but they're not They're not

532
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:40,040
Speaker 1: flat there. They are declining, all right, So Katie, you

533
00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 1: have to tell us the setup of The Chicken Sisters. I.

534
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 1: So The Chicken Sisters is the story of two sisters,

535
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 1: two small town sisters, one who stays, one who goes,

536
00:28:55,520 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 1: and they're perhaps rash decision to attempt to use a

537
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 1: reality TV restaurant competition between the two fried Chicken restaurants

538
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 1: that they've grown up with in their town to try

539
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 1: to resolve their ongoing feud about who has made the

540
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 1: better life choices. Because we all know that nothing solves

541
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 1: problems like reality TV. So you can expect in it

542
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 1: there's a very uber organ a professional organizer whose life

543
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:27,840
Speaker 1: is not as tidy as it looks. Obviously, there's the

544
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:31,880
Speaker 1: two fried chicken restaurants that have been feuding for generations,

545
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,960
Speaker 1: so there's a generation's long family feud. There's lots of

546
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 1: small towniness. There's above all, there's people. Both of my

547
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 1: protagonists are really struggling to figure out what makes them happy,

548
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 1: and they're looking to each other to see what their

549
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 1: sister has done and thinking that that makes her happy,

550
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 1: and then ultimately they need to figure out that they

551
00:29:54,920 --> 00:30:00,200
Speaker 1: have too to find their own way to to be happy.

552
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:03,000
Speaker 1: That's sorry I flaked off there because that sentence doesn't

553
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 1: always end in the same way. And there's like a

554
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:08,880
Speaker 1: manipulative reality TV host and there's an all chicken version

555
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 1: of Stephen King's Carrie, and there are secrets and a

556
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 1: dog and I mean, it's it's fun, but it's got

557
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 1: you know, it sounds I mean literally, if you saw

558
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:22,040
Speaker 1: me look away, it's because I just pre ordered it

559
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 1: while you were talking. So I think it sounds worthy.

560
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:29,120
Speaker 1: There are any fellow authors out there learning those things

561
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:33,480
Speaker 1: that make people so figuring out what we all have

562
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 1: little things that make us go, oh, yes, I will

563
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:39,960
Speaker 1: read that book. And you know, Jane Austen bookish for

564
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 1: some people like anything about twins or anything about adoption,

565
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 1: or anything about anything about reality TV or anything about

566
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 1: sports wives or I mean, there are sort of all

567
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 1: kinds of little various tropes and I'm not doing a

568
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:57,720
Speaker 1: great job of listening to them. But once you start

569
00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:01,240
Speaker 1: to see those, and it's a really great way to

570
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 1: help people find books that they're that they would be

571
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 1: interested in is just by pulling those out. Yeah, all right,

572
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 1: so let's just do our thriller slash sci fi list

573
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:15,520
Speaker 1: and and then we will have more than our listeners

574
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 1: can handle. Yes, all right, one more beach read, Last

575
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 1: Tank standing Lauren Howe. It's your crazy richets and rich

576
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:26,920
Speaker 1: Asians of the Summer. So well, Sarah just preordered that

577
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 1: one too. You had me at that night. Yeah, yeah,

578
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 1: you had me at that. I don't know how much rich,

579
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,760
Speaker 1: but anyway, that's what it is, or that's the shortcut

580
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 1: to it, and I think it's going to be a

581
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:43,120
Speaker 1: really fun read. So thriller wise, you've got. There's a

582
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 1: couple of new series starting to come out. There's Body

583
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:51,520
Speaker 1: in the Garden by Uh. I wrote down Catherine West,

584
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 1: but she wrote Minor Dramas and other Catastrophes, and I

585
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 1: have a sneaking suspicion Body in the Garden maybe a

586
00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 1: different Oh no, it's Kathleen. Okay. Minor Dramas and other

587
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:06,719
Speaker 1: Catastrophes is Kathleen West. Body in the Garden is Catherine West.

588
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 1: They are both good. Body in the Garden is historical, cozy,

589
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 1: modern twist, feminist, traditional memory mystery. So that is fun

590
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 1: if you like a little travel in with your thriller,

591
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 1: like if you'd also like to take a trip to

592
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 1: Ireland while you're solving your decades old mystery with your

593
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 1: female protagonist. I'm gonna recommend Sarah Stuart Taylor's The Mountains

594
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 1: Wild You Almost even there's so much Irish atmosphere in

595
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:37,480
Speaker 1: this you might need to just carry around a wolf

596
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 1: sweater while you're reading it, even though it's gonna be

597
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:42,560
Speaker 1: the middle of summer. It's yeah, and she's a really

598
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:45,160
Speaker 1: solid again, She's going to stick the landing. This is not,

599
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 1: by any means her first rodeo. She's a very solid writer.

600
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 1: New thriller that I haven't I'm not a huge thriller reader,

601
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 1: but I looked for some that it felt like they

602
00:32:56,640 --> 00:33:00,240
Speaker 1: would still be fun for me. So I've got All

603
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 1: the Broken People by Leah Conan. This one has this

604
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:09,960
Speaker 1: super twisty it. The plot reminds me of Oh Oh,

605
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:13,840
Speaker 1: but Everybody loves her. It was just a TV show

606
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:20,480
Speaker 1: Little fires everywhere. No, that's the other one with Nicole Kidman,

607
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:26,520
Speaker 1: oh Lene Moriarty. Okay, this one's that a very Leanne

608
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 1: Moriarty style, twisty plot. All the Broken People Leah Conan

609
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 1: definitely one to look for. And then I think my

610
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:38,640
Speaker 1: last thriller. Suggestion is for fans of Killing Eve because

611
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:44,400
Speaker 1: it's got that professional criminal killer aspect to It is

612
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 1: called The Lady Upstairs. It's the debut also and it's

613
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 1: by Hailey Sounon. Well, that is going to be all

614
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 1: the books anyone is going to be able to read

615
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:59,200
Speaker 1: this summer a lot of time. No, this is awesome kJ.

616
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:03,360
Speaker 1: They say this is a great list, and so I'm

617
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:05,240
Speaker 1: sure some people are curious, how do you get the

618
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:08,160
Speaker 1: books ahead of time? I think some of our listeners

619
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 1: would love to know how that happens. It's because I

620
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 1: have the podcast and I review them, and I have

621
00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:17,000
Speaker 1: been reviewing books for many years. So in some cases

622
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:19,840
Speaker 1: it's it's because of that. In some cases it's because.

623
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:23,640
Speaker 1: In one case in the Catherine Center, it's because I

624
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:26,000
Speaker 1: was at my local bookstore right before all of this

625
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:27,960
Speaker 1: imploded and she happened to have the ARC and be

626
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 1: finished with it, and I was like, can I have that?

627
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:33,200
Speaker 1: And she was like yes, because we're but so that

628
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:35,680
Speaker 1: was cool and then yeah, sometimes people just send them

629
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:38,600
Speaker 1: to you. The one thing we never hit was if

630
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:42,440
Speaker 1: you wanted those end of summer nonfiction things to start thinking,

631
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:45,560
Speaker 1: I just have two things Okay, two things. Yeah, I

632
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 1: have life as in the Transitions, which is by Bruce Feiler.

633
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:52,960
Speaker 1: It's Poe Bronson esque. It's a lot of stories about

634
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 1: the ways that the transitions in people's lives have set

635
00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 1: up their entire life story. And it's little bit about

636
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:04,640
Speaker 1: managing transitions and a lot about loving them and reveling them.

637
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:07,800
Speaker 1: And it's called a mastering change in a nonlineary age.

638
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:11,400
Speaker 1: He is really Bruce Spiler again, rock solid. Lots of

639
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 1: people are going to recognize him and have read stuff

640
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 1: from him, Counsel of dads with him. It's an NBC

641
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:21,960
Speaker 1: TV show now because yeah, it's not about his life,

642
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:24,480
Speaker 1: it's about his death. But fortunately he didn't actually yes,

643
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:27,640
Speaker 1: so it all worked out. And then the other one,

644
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:30,080
Speaker 1: I'll bet your listeners are going to really dig. Lots

645
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:32,480
Speaker 1: of people are fans of Lisa Woodruff. She is the

646
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:35,120
Speaker 1: host of the Organized three sixty five podcast and her

647
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 1: book about the Paper Solution, it's actually called The Paper Solution,

648
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:41,480
Speaker 1: is coming in August. That would be a perfect I

649
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:44,320
Speaker 1: know how I feel in August that I'm going to

650
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 1: like get organized. So this is like that get organized

651
00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:51,239
Speaker 1: read that you can read while you're still on the

652
00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:53,719
Speaker 1: beach and imagine that you're getting organized, which is maybe

653
00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:56,399
Speaker 1: the best reading about it instead of actually doing it. Yeah. Yeah,

654
00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:58,239
Speaker 1: I'm really good at that myself. So Lisa has been

655
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:00,400
Speaker 1: a guest on the podcast as well, and Sarah, Sarah

656
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:04,799
Speaker 1: is actually doing the Organized Challenge. I am starting her

657
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:07,840
Speaker 1: one hundred day program that she actually graciously gifted to me,

658
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 1: and that was because she had been on our podcast.

659
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 1: So I am very I'm a big fan of Lisa,

660
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:15,320
Speaker 1: So I am going to get that book too. Excellent.

661
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:18,399
Speaker 1: Well cool, Well, kJ we always end with our love

662
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 1: of the week, so Sarah and I can go first,

663
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 1: since give you a minute to think about it. Sarah,

664
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:36,239
Speaker 1: I had one. Well last night we so background. You know,

665
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:38,359
Speaker 1: we do movies a lot of nights these days, because

666
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:41,960
Speaker 1: why the hell not, and the movie that we kind

667
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:43,960
Speaker 1: of usually we let the kids pick, but every once

668
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:45,880
Speaker 1: in a while we kind of foist our own choices

669
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:48,320
Speaker 1: upon them. And last night Josh is like, we're watching

670
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 1: Groundhog Day, and let me tell you has withstood the

671
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:54,400
Speaker 1: test of time. That movie is a great movie. I

672
00:36:54,400 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 1: would watch it tomorrow. I loved it that that movie

673
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:02,680
Speaker 1: as a hook for like writing about the concept of time.

674
00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 1: Like way too many times. I have definitely, like I

675
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:09,240
Speaker 1: think every February two or so I mentioned the movie

676
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:12,200
Speaker 1: to then get into something of like, how would you

677
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:14,040
Speaker 1: like to spend your time if you knew that you

678
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:16,840
Speaker 1: could only spend your time on that movie recently, because

679
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:22,280
Speaker 1: like it's just like classic like nineteen early nineties nineties

680
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:24,800
Speaker 1: NOSS and it's but it's really well, it's very cute,

681
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:27,360
Speaker 1: So that's good. Okay, that would be a good one.

682
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 1: So one thing I am not personally into, but my

683
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:34,360
Speaker 1: children are loving at the moment is Avatar the Last Airbender,

684
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:40,000
Speaker 1: which the series is for seeing, so Jasper's most into it.

685
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:42,439
Speaker 1: He's my twelve year old, but my eight year old

686
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:44,839
Speaker 1: and five year old are also watching it with him.

687
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:48,000
Speaker 1: So that tends to be an every day around four

688
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:51,200
Speaker 1: o'clock kind of activity, which is a good time to

689
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:54,960
Speaker 1: have people do something that doesn't involve hitting each other.

690
00:37:56,120 --> 00:38:02,000
Speaker 1: So which is which is the alternate for activity? Yeah? Yeah,

691
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:05,239
Speaker 1: get that. Yeah, that's that's something they're loving. How about you,

692
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 1: kJ Can I do something that is a thing to buy? Oh? Sure? Yeah? Okay,

693
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 1: So I was on Instagram recently, probably ten minutes ago,

694
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:16,719
Speaker 1: but that's not when I heard yes as one is

695
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 1: constantly until one throws the phone across the room. And

696
00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:21,919
Speaker 1: one of my friends had just ordered ice cream from

697
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 1: Jenny's ice Cream j E n I s and I

698
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:29,239
Speaker 1: was unaware that you could do this. How does that

699
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:33,239
Speaker 1: even work? I yeah, and it's not even I thought, well,

700
00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:34,839
Speaker 1: this is going to be like fifty dollars a pint

701
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 1: because of the shipping and stuff. It wasn't that bad.

702
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:40,400
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's pricey ice cream already, and they're pints,

703
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:42,840
Speaker 1: but this is really really delicious ice cream and you

704
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:46,400
Speaker 1: can get a box of six pints. And it was

705
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:48,800
Speaker 1: just it came yesterday and it was such a treat

706
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:52,360
Speaker 1: for all of us, just to we had new flavor.

707
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:54,080
Speaker 1: I picked out all the flavors and we all had

708
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:56,040
Speaker 1: an ice cream taste test and it was a blast.

709
00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:58,839
Speaker 1: And on top of that, they ship you a large

710
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 1: quantity of dry ice which, depending on how old your

711
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 1: children are, better than I all all afternoon, Yester, I

712
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:08,200
Speaker 1: didn't know the ice cream had come. So I was

713
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 1: sitting up in my office actually recording a podcast, and

714
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:16,920
Speaker 1: I just suddenly start hearing boom against chemistry class again.

715
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:19,960
Speaker 1: There were blowing They had put dry eyes and food

716
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 1: coloring and coke bottles and they were shooting arrows at

717
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:28,360
Speaker 1: them because that's what children do. As one does anyway,

718
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:31,439
Speaker 1: So fun for everyone, plus ice cream plus ice cream.

719
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:34,120
Speaker 1: It doesn't get better than that, people, it really doesn't, ok. J,

720
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:36,239
Speaker 1: thank you so much for coming on again. And I

721
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:38,279
Speaker 1: know people have been taking notes. That's a good thing

722
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:40,239
Speaker 1: that a lot of people aren't commuting right now listening

723
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:42,160
Speaker 1: to podcast in the car, so they were able to

724
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 1: hopefully take notes and we'll put some of these up

725
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:47,040
Speaker 1: as well. All right, thank you kJ, Thank you guys.

726
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:50,879
Speaker 1: This was so fun. Well, that was fascinating. And now

727
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:54,319
Speaker 1: we have a question from a listener who found us

728
00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 1: while she was on maternity leave. Very exciting, showed we

729
00:39:57,719 --> 00:39:59,920
Speaker 1: didn't have to choose between career and family. But she's

730
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:02,160
Speaker 1: says her first kid is ten months old, she has

731
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:05,200
Speaker 1: a good work life balance. She is thinking of expanding

732
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:07,960
Speaker 1: her family, but her husband said something that disturbed her.

733
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:10,920
Speaker 1: She is fairly ambitious, working to become a director in

734
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:13,759
Speaker 1: her organization, and her husband thinks that once if she

735
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:16,000
Speaker 1: wants to work toward that goal, they shouldn't have a

736
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:18,840
Speaker 1: second child. She says, I'm already working pretty hard, and

737
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:20,560
Speaker 1: once I reach my goal, I will have to work

738
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 1: even harder. I'd love to hear your opinion on this.

739
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 1: You both have pretty large families and successful careers, so

740
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:29,600
Speaker 1: that's proof it's possible. Do you have any arguments with

741
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:32,239
Speaker 1: which I can convince my husband that it's feasible to

742
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:37,360
Speaker 1: have a second kid and a career. Woh, tough one. Yeah.

743
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:41,359
Speaker 1: I know. My initial reaction was WHOA. You know, it's

744
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:43,040
Speaker 1: interesting because I just went back and looked at her

745
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:46,240
Speaker 1: email and she wrote our ideal was always two kids.

746
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:52,520
Speaker 1: So I mean, I think they need to explore was

747
00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:55,800
Speaker 1: that really true? Like is this his way of expressing

748
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:57,959
Speaker 1: that actually, now that he has a child and sees

749
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:00,719
Speaker 1: what it entails that right now, he's not feeling like

750
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:04,600
Speaker 1: he can handle more like maybe he just feels really

751
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:08,399
Speaker 1: really overwhelmed and he just can't conceptualize the idea of

752
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:11,880
Speaker 1: putting another kid in the mix and her continuing to

753
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:15,319
Speaker 1: work as hard as she is. And I think there

754
00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:18,920
Speaker 1: need to be some very deep conversations about what they

755
00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:21,239
Speaker 1: both truly want and what are they afraid of, and

756
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:25,719
Speaker 1: what exactly why he thinks that this is an impossibility,

757
00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:29,319
Speaker 1: because clearly he has to know that it's possible. But

758
00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:33,160
Speaker 1: my two thoughts are that either he has figured out

759
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:36,280
Speaker 1: that he really doesn't want more kids, and which is valid.

760
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:40,000
Speaker 1: Like I want to be very careful on this podcast

761
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:44,479
Speaker 1: not to give off the impression that, like everyone should

762
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:46,160
Speaker 1: have as many kids as possible. That's the best way

763
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 1: to be awesome and that's the best of both worlds.

764
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:49,919
Speaker 1: Like no, like you should have as many kids as

765
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:52,360
Speaker 1: you feel as best for your family. And by you,

766
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:54,680
Speaker 1: I mean you know, both of you as a family

767
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:59,240
Speaker 1: deciding together, because having lots of kids where one partner

768
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:03,719
Speaker 1: doesn't want lots of kids is probably not a recipe

769
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:07,560
Speaker 1: for success. But then I also wonder if this could

770
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:10,719
Speaker 1: be sort of like still the shock period, because your

771
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 1: daughter's ten months old and that's gonna be a really

772
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:17,239
Speaker 1: hard time and you're picturing babies, babies, babies forever. And

773
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:19,799
Speaker 1: I will say that like after having Cameron, I was

774
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:22,439
Speaker 1: like I used to want three, but forget it. Two

775
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:25,680
Speaker 1: is good. Two is already overwhelming. I can't And I

776
00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:28,080
Speaker 1: even gave stuff away, like I had to rebuy stuff

777
00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:32,319
Speaker 1: for Genevieve. So I do wonder if, like maybe some

778
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:35,840
Speaker 1: deep conversations, some discussions of logistics and fears, like what

779
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:38,960
Speaker 1: exactly is he afraid of? And also take sure of

780
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:41,480
Speaker 1: time may help with this. But Laura, I am very

781
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:44,160
Speaker 1: curious as see your thoughts. Yeah, I mean I don't

782
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:47,560
Speaker 1: know if there's I mean, I think if she wants

783
00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:50,760
Speaker 1: a second child, she should be very transparent and say, listen,

784
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:53,319
Speaker 1: I would like to have a second child. I would

785
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:56,920
Speaker 1: like to know exactly what is your concern about this?

786
00:42:57,400 --> 00:42:59,600
Speaker 1: I mean, I think a lot of people don't have

787
00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 1: this conversation necessarily, and so you're both sort of hinting

788
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:05,080
Speaker 1: at it back and forth. And so if she knows

789
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:07,040
Speaker 1: that that is what she wants, she should say it

790
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:10,080
Speaker 1: and then ask, you know, what he thinks about it?

791
00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:13,640
Speaker 1: What's his concern? Because if it's just about her career,

792
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:16,680
Speaker 1: like I think, then that she can manage it seems

793
00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:21,440
Speaker 1: like that's possibly not exactly what he's concerned about. I

794
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:24,840
Speaker 1: wondered if it was that he is doing the lion's

795
00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:28,240
Speaker 1: share of the childcare, which is possible, Like she didn't

796
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:30,640
Speaker 1: really talk about that, but she said she had a

797
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:32,440
Speaker 1: very good work life balance, which I wonder if that

798
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:35,440
Speaker 1: means he doesn't. I don't you know. If that's the case,

799
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:38,400
Speaker 1: then that needs to be addressed to say, well, is

800
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:41,960
Speaker 1: it that we will need more help because she's traveling

801
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:44,319
Speaker 1: a lot, she's working late, and he's feeling overwhelmed because

802
00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:46,800
Speaker 1: he's dealing with a baby every night. If that's the case,

803
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:49,359
Speaker 1: then if she wants another kid, she needs to deal

804
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:51,880
Speaker 1: with that, right, she needs to help solve that problem

805
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:54,880
Speaker 1: for him. If it's that he was the kind of

806
00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:58,920
Speaker 1: guy who really really liked sleeping in on Saturday mornings

807
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:02,360
Speaker 1: and having a leisurely much, well, I mean, honestly you

808
00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:06,920
Speaker 1: lost that already. So I mean if by having one,

809
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:10,040
Speaker 1: so I don't know what to say that two is

810
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:12,040
Speaker 1: not going to change that, Like that is actually not

811
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:13,839
Speaker 1: going to change that at all. But I mean maybe

812
00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:15,520
Speaker 1: that's an argument too. I mean, you could have three,

813
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:17,200
Speaker 1: it won't change that you have four. It won't change

814
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:19,360
Speaker 1: that you're not getting brunched back for a long time.

815
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:24,480
Speaker 1: So I'm not having civilized brunch anyway. Yeah, But I

816
00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:27,840
Speaker 1: mean I'm being humorous here, but I do think she

817
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:31,359
Speaker 1: needs to figure out if she states in clear terms

818
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:33,319
Speaker 1: that this is what she wants, then he can state

819
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:35,960
Speaker 1: what his objections are and then she can work with us.

820
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:38,279
Speaker 1: And if it's absolutely that he doesn't want another kid, Well,

821
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:41,680
Speaker 1: then you either have to make your peace with it

822
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:45,920
Speaker 1: or figure out something completely else. But that's something for

823
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:50,480
Speaker 1: an entirely different podcast that they need to figure out. Yeah,

824
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:53,360
Speaker 1: we would love if listeners have any additional opinions or

825
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:56,400
Speaker 1: thoughts regarding the situation. I think it is an interesting question,

826
00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:59,040
Speaker 1: so feel free to weigh in exactly all right, Well,

827
00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:01,080
Speaker 1: this has been best of both worlds. We've been talking

828
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:03,480
Speaker 1: summer books and we'll be back next week with more

829
00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:07,800
Speaker 1: on making work and life fit together. Thanks for listening.

830
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:11,120
Speaker 1: You can find me Sarah at the shoebox dot com

831
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:15,040
Speaker 1: or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram, and you can

832
00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:19,319
Speaker 1: find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This has

833
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:22,680
Speaker 1: been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please join us

834
00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:26,080
Speaker 1: next time for more on making work and life work together.