WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 173 0:00:01.720 --> 0:00:03.080 Calzon Media. 0:00:03.320 --> 0:00:05.760 Hey everybody, Robert Evans here and I wanted to let 0:00:05.800 --> 0:00:09.440 you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode 0:00:09.560 --> 0:00:12.719 of the week that just happened is here in one 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:16.560 convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to 0:00:16.600 --> 0:00:19.040 listen to in a long stretch if you want. If 0:00:19.079 --> 0:00:21.000 you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:22.759 there's going to be nothing new here for you, but 0:00:23.160 --> 0:00:25.080 you can make your own decisions. 0:00:26.800 --> 0:00:29.000 Welcome, dick it up and hear a podcast about things 0:00:29.040 --> 0:00:30.920 falling apart and how to put them back together again. 0:00:31.080 --> 0:00:34.360 I am your host Mia Wong with me is James Stout. Hi? 0:00:34.440 --> 0:00:36.320 Mary, happy to be here again? 0:00:36.600 --> 0:00:37.400 Yeah, I am. 0:00:38.240 --> 0:00:38.640 I don't know. 0:00:38.920 --> 0:00:42.760 I have mixed emotions about this one. So today we 0:00:43.120 --> 0:00:47.479 are talking about how the American state, particularly the sort 0:00:47.479 --> 0:00:50.760 of neoliberal American state of the last about fifty years, 0:00:50.800 --> 0:00:54.880 created Elon Musk and how it is destroying itself. And 0:00:55.040 --> 0:00:56.440 we'll start with the fun part of this, which is 0:00:56.440 --> 0:00:58.360 that Tesla stock is down twenty five percent in the 0:00:58.400 --> 0:01:02.400 last month. Yay, it's extremely funny. The protests are working. 0:01:02.480 --> 0:01:04.640 People are like lighting them on cars on fire literally 0:01:04.720 --> 0:01:06.520 all over the world, Like there was just a big 0:01:06.640 --> 0:01:10.280 ration in France the day we're recording this. The pressure 0:01:10.360 --> 0:01:12.840 is working, he's having a bad time. Twenty five percent 0:01:12.959 --> 0:01:14.720 is just the start we can get the other seventy 0:01:14.720 --> 0:01:15.400 five percent. 0:01:17.959 --> 0:01:21.000 Yeah, I mean, and like for people who like I guess, 0:01:21.160 --> 0:01:23.760 I don't know, the value of Tesla stock is directly 0:01:23.800 --> 0:01:27.160 tied to Elon Musk's net worth. Like, obviously he's diversified, 0:01:27.200 --> 0:01:29.640 he doesn't have all of his wealth and netstocks. But 0:01:29.680 --> 0:01:32.399 like when Tesla stock goes down, Elon Musk gets poorer. 0:01:32.600 --> 0:01:34.479 Yep, it's great, it's great. We love we love making 0:01:34.480 --> 0:01:35.360 Elon Musk poorer. 0:01:35.680 --> 0:01:37.840 Yeah, it's the one line we like to see. 0:01:38.040 --> 0:01:40.240 However, Comma, So we've talked a lot on this show 0:01:40.280 --> 0:01:42.240 about the things that Elon Musk is doing to the 0:01:42.640 --> 0:01:45.399 American state and about all of the people who he 0:01:45.520 --> 0:01:47.560 is harming in the lives. Is showing the people who 0:01:47.560 --> 0:01:50.600 are dead because of his actions, and I think it's 0:01:50.600 --> 0:01:54.680 worth actually getting into how he was produced and how 0:01:54.720 --> 0:01:57.280 it came to be that. You know, at the beginning 0:01:57.280 --> 0:02:00.000 of the Communist Manifesto, Mark famously wrote to the boorscheoise 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:02.600 Z produced their own grave diggers, and you know, his 0:02:02.760 --> 0:02:05.960 his promised like inevitable victory of the proletariat has thus 0:02:05.960 --> 0:02:11.280 far failed to materialize. But neoliberalism and like this specific state, 0:02:11.760 --> 0:02:14.880 seems to have produced their own grave diggers, partially in 0:02:14.919 --> 0:02:17.160 the form of Trump, but partially in the form of 0:02:17.240 --> 0:02:21.520 Elon Musk. And it's worth actually going into the story 0:02:21.639 --> 0:02:25.600 of how specifically this happens, and also, I think what 0:02:25.680 --> 0:02:29.000 neoliberalism is, because this is an important aspect of I 0:02:29.280 --> 0:02:33.079 think people are kind of aware of the broad outlines 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:35.520 of the story of the extent to which you know, 0:02:35.760 --> 0:02:38.280 Tesla and space Ax were built by American subsidies, but 0:02:38.320 --> 0:02:42.800 it's worth going into some of the more structural elements 0:02:42.800 --> 0:02:43.519 of how this happened. 0:02:43.680 --> 0:02:43.920 Why. 0:02:45.400 --> 0:02:47.920 So, one of the problems that we have here, and 0:02:47.960 --> 0:02:51.119 I say we have here because this is a problem 0:02:51.200 --> 0:02:53.240 that Elon Musk has, which is that he simply does 0:02:53.320 --> 0:02:56.359 not understand what neoliberalism is or how it operates. 0:02:56.639 --> 0:02:58.880 Yeah, there's a lot of things he doesn't understand. 0:02:58.919 --> 0:02:59.160 Yeah. 0:02:59.760 --> 0:03:02.760 Yeah, and unfortunately he has inherited like the greatest of 0:03:02.800 --> 0:03:06.919 all neoliberal states. So the issue here is that Elon 0:03:07.000 --> 0:03:09.880 Musk thinks that what his own ideology is supposed to 0:03:09.919 --> 0:03:12.680 be when neoliberalism is what is sort of weird libertarians 0:03:12.680 --> 0:03:15.640 and whatever you call his sort of ideology you know, 0:03:16.160 --> 0:03:17.800 is supposed to be and you know, like he is 0:03:17.840 --> 0:03:19.560 just sort of a fascist. But on the other hand, 0:03:20.280 --> 0:03:23.520 he's a product of this wing of that movement that 0:03:23.639 --> 0:03:26.200 was created out of out of the neoliberal thing about like, ah, 0:03:26.240 --> 0:03:28.240 you must like decrease the size of the state. You gotta, 0:03:28.240 --> 0:03:30.240 you gotta eliminate all regulations you have to you know, 0:03:30.400 --> 0:03:32.160 you keep keep decreasing the size of the state. Keep 0:03:32.160 --> 0:03:34.200 fire like you know, fire all government employees, et cetera, 0:03:34.200 --> 0:03:36.720 et cetera. Yeah, and again this is I think largely 0:03:36.760 --> 0:03:39.720 what a lot of people think neoliberalism is, right. They 0:03:39.720 --> 0:03:42.080 think it's like, okay, neoliberalisms where the state gets smaller, 0:03:42.080 --> 0:03:44.280 And this has always been a fucking joke, Like to 0:03:44.400 --> 0:03:46.880 this entire ideoliberal period, the size of the state bureaucracy 0:03:47.000 --> 0:03:50.440 keeps increasing, and this has always allowed a kind of 0:03:50.480 --> 0:03:53.440 like controlled capitalist opposition to emerge to you know, when 0:03:53.480 --> 0:03:56.040 two thousand and eight happens, right, Yeah, the economy, entire 0:03:56.040 --> 0:03:58.520 economy collapses, and then out of the woodwork come all 0:03:58.520 --> 0:04:01.360 of these like Rand Paulls of like quote unquote libertarians 0:04:01.360 --> 0:04:03.320 who have a lot of sudden interesting ties to a 0:04:03.320 --> 0:04:05.720 bunch of fascist groups and like all of these sort 0:04:05.720 --> 0:04:08.840 of fascist perilitaries. But you know, they can come out 0:04:08.840 --> 0:04:10.440 of the woodwork and say, oh, the reason that the 0:04:10.480 --> 0:04:13.120 two thousand and eight collapse happened was because there is 0:04:13.160 --> 0:04:14.880 too much government regulation. And this is like sort of 0:04:14.880 --> 0:04:16.719 what bitcoin is, right, It's like, ah, the evils of 0:04:16.720 --> 0:04:18.400 capitalism are happening because like. 0:04:18.480 --> 0:04:19.680 Not enough capitalism. 0:04:19.960 --> 0:04:21.800 Yeah, well it's because like the but like cecifically, like 0:04:21.800 --> 0:04:23.840 the evil and s trench interests have taken over the 0:04:23.880 --> 0:04:25.920 state and you don't have the power to access to 0:04:26.000 --> 0:04:28.320 things that they do, which is obviously you know, like 0:04:28.360 --> 0:04:30.680 it is obviously true that these people have control of 0:04:30.680 --> 0:04:33.400 the state and you don't. But this sort of controlled 0:04:33.400 --> 0:04:35.640 opposition of if you put us in power, will eliminate 0:04:35.680 --> 0:04:37.279 parts of the state, will get rid of all this 0:04:37.320 --> 0:04:39.839 regulation that you can suddenly be in power. This has 0:04:39.880 --> 0:04:42.400 always been a controlled opposition thing, you know. And this 0:04:42.440 --> 0:04:44.560 is disappears in the form of sort of libertarianism or 0:04:44.600 --> 0:04:47.480 like on the most extreme mentioned arco capitalism. Yeah, and 0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:50.080 this is something that the Montpellier society, which is like 0:04:50.080 --> 0:04:54.359 the people who basically invented neoliberalism and where all like 0:04:54.360 --> 0:04:56.679 their academics come from, they slow of conferences. They've always 0:04:56.680 --> 0:04:59.039 had a problem with this where there's always been a 0:04:59.040 --> 0:05:01.120 branch of an archer capital there who think the only 0:05:01.160 --> 0:05:04.159 thing that the state should do is enforced contracts or 0:05:04.240 --> 0:05:08.360 just that it shouldn't exist and everything should just do Yeah, 0:05:08.440 --> 0:05:10.880 and the neoliberals are like, Okay, that you guys are 0:05:10.920 --> 0:05:13.200 fucking ridiculous. And the reason they think this is that 0:05:13.240 --> 0:05:15.479 the actual thing that these people believe and this is 0:05:15.480 --> 0:05:17.480 this is something that if you read more highek than 0:05:17.600 --> 0:05:19.400 just like the Road to served him right, that's like 0:05:19.400 --> 0:05:21.160 the stuff for public consumption. If you read the stuff 0:05:21.160 --> 0:05:23.479 that you ask for public consumption, if you read sort 0:05:23.520 --> 0:05:25.719 of like rope Key, and you read all of the 0:05:25.760 --> 0:05:28.400 sort of theorists who develop what becomes the IMF, and 0:05:29.360 --> 0:05:31.880 you know, you go through all the different schools. What 0:05:32.000 --> 0:05:36.040 they actually believe. Contrary the things that they say were like, oh, 0:05:36.200 --> 0:05:38.840 markets naturally emerge and the state just like exist to 0:05:38.880 --> 0:05:42.120 control them. What they believe is that you have to 0:05:42.320 --> 0:05:45.880 use the states specifically to create markets, and you have 0:05:45.920 --> 0:05:48.720 to use the state to discipline workers through just pure 0:05:48.800 --> 0:05:51.440 violence until they become sort of like good neoliberal market 0:05:51.480 --> 0:05:53.479 subjects you go to work, go home, buy things, and 0:05:53.520 --> 0:05:56.600 do nothing else. And the product of this is the 0:05:56.680 --> 0:05:59.680 nineteen eighties, right, is the replacement of the welfare state, 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:02.520 which is the sort of carrets of this system with 0:06:02.600 --> 0:06:04.479 just the pure stick of the police baton and the 0:06:04.480 --> 0:06:05.440 prison system. 0:06:05.600 --> 0:06:08.679 Yeah, it's the end of like the post Second World 0:06:08.760 --> 0:06:12.640 War welfare state order, right that we saw certainly in 0:06:13.960 --> 0:06:15.599 the US but mostly in the Europe. 0:06:15.680 --> 0:06:15.840 Right. 0:06:16.200 --> 0:06:16.440 Yeah. 0:06:16.600 --> 0:06:20.000 Yeah, But and this is very important, this never actually 0:06:20.080 --> 0:06:22.400 decreased the size of the state because what the state, 0:06:22.480 --> 0:06:24.360 you know, what it was was it was a shifting 0:06:24.360 --> 0:06:27.680 of sort of recourses and allocation away from like the 0:06:27.760 --> 0:06:31.839 state giving you things towards the states, you know, like 0:06:31.920 --> 0:06:33.839 beating you over the head with a hammer, and also 0:06:33.920 --> 0:06:36.640 insofar as it gives you things, making you go through 0:06:36.720 --> 0:06:39.800 all of these unbelievable bureaucratic hurdles to access whatever sort 0:06:39.839 --> 0:06:42.440 of like scant welfare policies still exist. 0:06:42.920 --> 0:06:46.040 Yeah, the states surveying you both for violence reasons and 0:06:46.080 --> 0:06:48.520 for withdrawing your benefits reasons. 0:06:49.800 --> 0:06:52.120 Yeah, And this and this is always something that all 0:06:52.160 --> 0:06:56.720 of these people have supported. Right now, The other important 0:06:56.720 --> 0:06:58.760 part for our purposes is is the thing I said 0:06:58.800 --> 0:07:02.360 earlier about the state creating markets, and that's that's kind 0:07:02.360 --> 0:07:04.880 of like an abstract thing, right, there are sort of 0:07:04.920 --> 0:07:07.359 historical examples you can go through to look at what 0:07:07.400 --> 0:07:09.760 this looks like in a place where there aren't markets. 0:07:09.760 --> 0:07:12.640 But this is something that's very important because a huge 0:07:12.680 --> 0:07:16.200 amount of what Tesla is is a direct result of 0:07:16.240 --> 0:07:18.280 you know, pure neoliberalism and action, which is the state 0:07:18.320 --> 0:07:20.120 stepping in to create a market as its way of 0:07:20.240 --> 0:07:22.520 doing regulation and with the way to interact with the world. 0:07:23.520 --> 0:07:26.880 And so here we need to get to carbon credits. Now, 0:07:27.360 --> 0:07:31.400 selling off carbon credits, they're also called regulatory credits. In 0:07:31.440 --> 0:07:35.480 twenty twenty four the selling of carbon credits was forty 0:07:35.520 --> 0:07:39.840 three percent of Tesla's net income. Forty three percent. 0:07:40.280 --> 0:07:42.320 Yeah, so we should explain what a carbon credit is 0:07:42.360 --> 0:07:43.120 if people I'm. 0:07:42.920 --> 0:07:47.360 Familiar, Yeah, actually has numbers on this. Their numbers are 0:07:47.440 --> 0:07:51.240 that since twenty fourteen, thirty four percent of the total 0:07:51.280 --> 0:07:55.920 profits of Tesla are from selling these carbon credits. So 0:07:55.960 --> 0:07:58.160 the way the system works is that the EPA sets 0:07:58.400 --> 0:08:00.640 standards for how much this is. Like you know, I 0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:03.640 read the ACXIO this thing too, but like the EPA 0:08:03.720 --> 0:08:07.240 set standards for how much like CO two per mile, 0:08:07.480 --> 0:08:10.840 all of the cars and trucks combined that a car 0:08:10.880 --> 0:08:14.800 company makes can can admit and you know, instead of 0:08:14.880 --> 0:08:16.720 doing the thing where you're like, okay, hey, there's just 0:08:16.720 --> 0:08:18.640 going to be like a firm cap on these emissions, 0:08:18.680 --> 0:08:20.080 they're like no, no, no, you know this this is what 0:08:20.440 --> 0:08:21.920 I say when I say they create a market. So 0:08:21.960 --> 0:08:24.559 if what happens if you go over the cap, isn't 0:08:24.600 --> 0:08:26.880 that like you know, like people get hauled off the 0:08:26.920 --> 0:08:28.840 jail or whatever. What happens is that you have to 0:08:28.880 --> 0:08:32.360 buy someone else's carbon credits, and if you're below the cap, 0:08:32.480 --> 0:08:34.600 it gives you credits you can sell to other companies. 0:08:35.040 --> 0:08:38.560 So what this allows is because Tesla only makes electric cars, right, 0:08:38.600 --> 0:08:41.680 their cars produced like zero basically like. 0:08:41.840 --> 0:08:44.040 They don't have any fossil fuel use at all within 0:08:44.080 --> 0:08:44.679 their line. 0:08:44.920 --> 0:08:47.320 Yeah. Yeah, Now obviously like whereas you know, you can 0:08:47.320 --> 0:08:49.600 ask a question where is that electricity coming from? But 0:08:49.840 --> 0:08:51.880 you know, like, but that's that's what doesn't get factored 0:08:51.920 --> 0:08:53.640 into it, which is part of the sort of problem 0:08:53.720 --> 0:08:56.160 with trying to use the state like this to solve right. 0:08:56.200 --> 0:08:58.320 It doesn't look at life cyclists. Yeah, yeah, it just 0:08:58.360 --> 0:09:00.600 looks at driving the car missions. 0:09:00.840 --> 0:09:02.000 You know, this is this is the problem with trying 0:09:02.000 --> 0:09:03.840 to use a regulatory state like this to solve the 0:09:03.840 --> 0:09:06.600 problem with climate change by creating a market. And so 0:09:06.720 --> 0:09:09.520 Tesla makes and again this is this last year, this 0:09:09.679 --> 0:09:13.520 was forty three percent of its NEAT income came not 0:09:13.600 --> 0:09:16.560 from selling cars, but from selling these carbon credits. So 0:09:16.600 --> 0:09:19.160 what they're doing is making it so that other companies 0:09:19.640 --> 0:09:22.880 can produce more cars that are less fuel efficients, can 0:09:22.880 --> 0:09:25.480 produce less electric cars and produce less like hybrids. 0:09:26.000 --> 0:09:29.800 It's why you couldn't get a plug in hybrid EV 0:09:30.040 --> 0:09:32.960 pickup truck, Like I think they may be plug in 0:09:33.040 --> 0:09:37.079 hybrid Mavericks now, but like the reason that no US 0:09:37.080 --> 0:09:40.680 manufacturer bothered to make an electric pickup truck like the 0:09:40.920 --> 0:09:43.960 that form fifty lightning that they have now is because 0:09:43.960 --> 0:09:47.160 they could just trade with companies like Tesla instead. 0:09:47.920 --> 0:09:51.560 Yeah, and this is a fucking disaster for climate policy 0:09:51.880 --> 0:09:54.280 because instead of having all of the car companies just 0:09:54.320 --> 0:09:56.400 like dramatically lowering their emissions, what you have is one 0:09:56.440 --> 0:09:58.440 car company that makes electric cars, and then all the 0:09:58.440 --> 0:10:00.480 rest of the car companies increasing the amount of like 0:10:00.559 --> 0:10:03.280 sto Tuper like Biles et cetera et cetera. And the 0:10:03.320 --> 0:10:06.120 secondary problem, and this is the problem that we're experiencing now, 0:10:06.679 --> 0:10:09.760 is that, you know, neoliberals have like this very sort 0:10:09.760 --> 0:10:12.640 of in a lot of ways, like romantic notion of 0:10:12.640 --> 0:10:14.319 what a market is, right with the explain it. So 0:10:14.360 --> 0:10:15.760 it's like, ah, there's all this, there's gonna be all 0:10:15.760 --> 0:10:17.640 this like competition in the market. The competition is going 0:10:17.679 --> 0:10:19.280 to create the best product. And what actually happens, and 0:10:19.320 --> 0:10:22.839 the neoliberals in their private doctor understand this is that 0:10:22.880 --> 0:10:25.600 when the state creates a market like this, what is 0:10:25.600 --> 0:10:29.320 doing is handing like a person, like a single individual, 0:10:29.440 --> 0:10:32.880 a giant monopoly. And that's what happens. And that monopoly 0:10:33.920 --> 0:10:36.880 is one Elon Musk, Yeah, who has now been handed 0:10:36.920 --> 0:10:40.360 the title of the richest man in human history by 0:10:40.600 --> 0:10:43.040 the state's regulatory apparatus. 0:10:43.040 --> 0:10:45.720 Because they've given him basically complete control every I mean, 0:10:45.760 --> 0:10:48.360 there are other ev only companies, but they're minute, right, 0:10:48.440 --> 0:10:51.560 Rivan or something like that, And he's got this scarce 0:10:51.600 --> 0:10:54.480 resource that the entire automotive industry now needs. 0:10:54.840 --> 0:10:56.520 Yeah, And again this is you know, going back to 0:10:56.559 --> 0:11:00.439 the market creation part of this. None of this shit existed, right, 0:11:00.480 --> 0:11:03.520 Like carbon caps are not something the market would ever 0:11:03.720 --> 0:11:06.720 produce by itself or whatever. Like this is a direct 0:11:06.800 --> 0:11:11.360 neilerbal intervention into the market, which is what neolibililism is, right, 0:11:11.600 --> 0:11:14.120 It's it's the nailerble state coming into great markets and 0:11:14.160 --> 0:11:16.400 the product of it is Elon Musk. 0:11:16.640 --> 0:11:17.920 Yeah, it's a monopoly. 0:11:18.120 --> 0:11:18.360 Yeah. 0:11:18.360 --> 0:11:19.960 And when we come back from ADS, well, we'll go 0:11:20.080 --> 0:11:23.160 into a little bit of why specifically it was Elon 0:11:23.280 --> 0:11:26.000 Musk and not all of these other companies that became 0:11:26.040 --> 0:11:28.880 the sort of single guy and how and how else 0:11:28.880 --> 0:11:42.720 he's benefited from the state. We are back, so the 0:11:42.840 --> 0:11:45.920 other aspect, you know. So, so we've gone into how 0:11:46.000 --> 0:11:49.240 how how Tesla is built on on these on this 0:11:49.280 --> 0:11:53.160 carbon credit trading. The other aspect of it is that 0:11:53.480 --> 0:11:59.200 Tesla has received unbelievable amounts of money from government contracts. 0:11:59.480 --> 0:12:04.000 The Washington Post in probably the last like expose they're 0:12:04.000 --> 0:12:06.600 ever going to do like this now that Bezos has 0:12:06.640 --> 0:12:09.760 been like weird free market capitalists like tried to go 0:12:09.840 --> 0:12:12.680 through and find all of the money in government contracts 0:12:12.720 --> 0:12:13.280 that they've gotten. 0:12:13.320 --> 0:12:14.000 They totaled it. 0:12:14.320 --> 0:12:16.320 Well, I think I think they're also including like tax 0:12:16.320 --> 0:12:18.560 credits and stuff like that, but they totaled it at 0:12:18.600 --> 0:12:21.960 thirty eight billion dollars, and that's just the ones that 0:12:21.960 --> 0:12:24.600 are unclassified, which is very important because a bunch of 0:12:24.600 --> 0:12:27.040 what SpaceX does SpaceX is, you know, most other company 0:12:27.200 --> 0:12:30.240 is a bunch of a bunch of contracts for classified 0:12:30.400 --> 0:12:33.600 like the deployment of Spice satellites. So it's definitely way 0:12:33.640 --> 0:12:36.199 more than that, right, Yeah. But this comes to the 0:12:36.520 --> 0:12:39.000 other sort of aspect of how Tesla functions and how 0:12:39.080 --> 0:12:41.280 tech companies work in general, which is that tech companies, 0:12:41.920 --> 0:12:44.439 like in general, do not make money, right They hemorrhage 0:12:44.440 --> 0:12:46.880 money for basically their entire existence until they can find 0:12:47.360 --> 0:12:49.680 a bunch of government contracts that can make them money. 0:12:50.240 --> 0:12:53.200 And Tesla in particular was like really sort of eating 0:12:53.240 --> 0:12:56.280 shit after two thousand and eight, and you know, WAPA 0:12:56.320 --> 0:12:56.880 talks about this. 0:12:57.000 --> 0:12:57.920 They got a. 0:12:58.320 --> 0:13:01.600 Four hundred and sixty five million dollars low interest loan 0:13:01.640 --> 0:13:03.960 for the Department of Energy in twenty ten that basically 0:13:04.000 --> 0:13:05.800 saved the company from the brink of collapse. 0:13:06.080 --> 0:13:07.960 Good thing, there's nothing else to spend the money on 0:13:08.040 --> 0:13:10.360 in twenty ten. No one else needed low interest low 0:13:10.400 --> 0:13:11.760 into a I think it was fine. 0:13:11.960 --> 0:13:14.360 No, No, there was no attempt to build like a 0:13:14.440 --> 0:13:17.360 giant American high speed rail system that Elon Musk also killed. 0:13:17.640 --> 0:13:20.000 Yep, you know, nothing else was happening. I wasn't living 0:13:20.000 --> 0:13:22.800 in my car at that time. It was fine. Yeah, 0:13:22.800 --> 0:13:24.880 thank you Obama. 0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:24.680 And so and so. 0:13:24.760 --> 0:13:26.640 As this goes on, right, the goal of you as 0:13:26.640 --> 0:13:28.400 a tech company, there's two things you want to do. 0:13:28.520 --> 0:13:30.200 If you're a smaller tech company, you're trying to get 0:13:30.200 --> 0:13:32.400 bought by a bigger tech company so you can retire 0:13:32.440 --> 0:13:34.720 on your pile of money. Or if you're a larger 0:13:34.720 --> 0:13:37.600 tech company, you were trying to amass enough US contracts, 0:13:37.640 --> 0:13:41.600 like US government contracts, to like get you to sort 0:13:41.640 --> 0:13:45.319 of stability. And this is what happens with SpaceX. SpaceX 0:13:45.400 --> 0:13:49.640 now has gotten eighteen billion dollars of contracts with NASA, 0:13:50.440 --> 0:13:51.880 And this is sort of a part of like, I mean, 0:13:51.960 --> 0:13:56.760 NASA has always used government contractors, but like this is different, 0:13:57.240 --> 0:14:00.600 Like this is just straight up there using Tesla's rockets 0:14:01.080 --> 0:14:02.880 to do things. And this is also part of why 0:14:03.000 --> 0:14:04.800 like Tesla and Boeing fucking this up, as part of 0:14:04.800 --> 0:14:06.439 why a bunch of astronauts are fucking stranded on the 0:14:06.440 --> 0:14:09.120 space station right now, because these things do not work. 0:14:10.360 --> 0:14:12.800 But there's there's been an enormous amount of money here. 0:14:12.840 --> 0:14:14.559 And the other thing, you know, this is one of 0:14:14.600 --> 0:14:18.080 the other sort of like great neo liberal things, is 0:14:18.120 --> 0:14:20.280 that a lot of the a lot of the factories 0:14:20.440 --> 0:14:23.720 that Elon Musk sort of builds, you know, the ones 0:14:23.720 --> 0:14:25.520 that are in the US, are there because they get 0:14:25.680 --> 0:14:28.800 unbelievable amounts of tax breaks and taxi centers from from 0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:31.920 from local states themselves. All of this brings us to, 0:14:33.160 --> 0:14:36.080 you know, one of the other really core aspects of 0:14:36.120 --> 0:14:39.080 sort of the profitability of Tesla in terms of selling 0:14:39.920 --> 0:14:41.320 in terms of selling cars. By the way, we should 0:14:41.320 --> 0:14:43.360 also mention this is some thing Axios talks about that 0:14:43.480 --> 0:14:45.520 like if they weren't able to sell carbon credits, this 0:14:45.520 --> 0:14:47.000 company would literally never make money. 0:14:47.200 --> 0:14:48.920 Yeah, yeah, yeah, this has been the case. I write 0:14:48.960 --> 0:14:51.840 about this like I think two years ago. Yeah, I 0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:54.920 remember writing about this before. Eat the Musk have gone 0:14:55.000 --> 0:14:58.720 full fucking evil villain, I guess. But that's what they are. 0:14:58.760 --> 0:15:00.760 They're a cobbon credit company that makes cars. 0:15:00.920 --> 0:15:04.520 Yeah, but even their car sales are enormously bolstered by 0:15:04.520 --> 0:15:08.800 a seven five hundred dollars tax credit for electric cars. 0:15:08.800 --> 0:15:12.119 Oh yeah, I got some tax credit information on electric cars. 0:15:12.640 --> 0:15:14.320 It's now the time. Yeah, yeah. 0:15:14.320 --> 0:15:16.240 Can you want to talk about the other one that's 0:15:16.320 --> 0:15:17.840 driving these unhinged. 0:15:17.360 --> 0:15:20.840 Sales, Yes, I do, because I have been driving around 0:15:20.920 --> 0:15:24.320 San Diego and I have seen an obscene number of 0:15:24.360 --> 0:15:28.880 cyber trucks wrapped in people's business livery, and it occurs 0:15:28.920 --> 0:15:31.160 to me that they're not businesses that need a pickup truck, 0:15:31.320 --> 0:15:32.960 nor the people who need a pickup truck for work 0:15:32.960 --> 0:15:36.480 by cyber trucks because they suck at being trucks. And 0:15:36.920 --> 0:15:40.160 so I did some digging and I discovered that the 0:15:40.200 --> 0:15:43.200 IRS has a special tax deduction for vehicles which are 0:15:43.280 --> 0:15:47.080 rated over six pounds gross vehicle weight. The gross vehicle 0:15:47.080 --> 0:15:49.520 weight rating, if you're not familiar, that's not like the 0:15:49.640 --> 0:15:51.920 mass of the vehicle if you drove it like off 0:15:52.120 --> 0:15:56.400 the dealer lot onto a scale, that's the maximum operating 0:15:56.480 --> 0:15:59.680 weight of the vehicle as specified by the manufacturer. So 0:16:00.320 --> 0:16:02.840 it's your tesla with I mean, they are very funny 0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:05.520 videos of guy cycloading one bag of composts into the 0:16:05.520 --> 0:16:07.760 back of the Tesla and being it's a great truck 0:16:07.800 --> 0:16:08.760 for truck stuff. 0:16:09.040 --> 0:16:11.120 The other really funny one is when when they try 0:16:11.160 --> 0:16:12.640 to attach like a winch to it and try to 0:16:12.720 --> 0:16:15.480 use it to pull the pull heavy things in the 0:16:15.520 --> 0:16:17.240 back of the truck comes off because it's just like 0:16:17.280 --> 0:16:17.960 made of like. 0:16:18.160 --> 0:16:22.000 It's like like glue, like a unibody. Yeah, it might 0:16:22.000 --> 0:16:23.880 not be a body on frame, like, it might not 0:16:23.920 --> 0:16:25.960 be a proper truck. I actually don't know now how 0:16:25.960 --> 0:16:28.200 stually I will look into that afterwards. I bet it's 0:16:28.240 --> 0:16:30.440 I bet most of the electric or like high minage 0:16:30.440 --> 0:16:34.480 pickup trucks are not. So yeah, not a good truck actually, 0:16:35.040 --> 0:16:38.120 under it's called Section one seventy nine. Under Section one 0:16:38.240 --> 0:16:42.160 seventy nine, a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating 0:16:42.240 --> 0:16:46.080 over six thousand pounds, you can deduct up to thirty 0:16:46.120 --> 0:16:49.400 one thousand in the first year rather than deducting the 0:16:49.440 --> 0:16:52.600 depreciation of the capital good over time. Right, So instead 0:16:52.600 --> 0:16:56.040 of instead of deducting the depreciation of your vehicle that 0:16:56.080 --> 0:16:58.480 you purchase your business over time and not paying tax 0:16:58.520 --> 0:17:01.080 on that amount, you can not pay tax on thirty 0:17:01.080 --> 0:17:03.800 one thousand in the first year of your vehicle if 0:17:03.800 --> 0:17:05.479 it's over six thousand pounds. 0:17:05.560 --> 0:17:05.720 Right. 0:17:05.920 --> 0:17:09.199 There are some exemptions for luxury vehicles, like if you've 0:17:09.240 --> 0:17:11.399 got a may bark or something really fucking heavy, so 0:17:11.440 --> 0:17:13.240 that would even cover the Model X, right, the Tesla 0:17:13.280 --> 0:17:16.679 Model X have the GBWR above that. With a truck, 0:17:16.840 --> 0:17:19.679 there are exemptions for work vehicles and they have to 0:17:19.720 --> 0:17:24.200 have a separate cargo compartment that is not the driver's compartment, 0:17:24.520 --> 0:17:27.680 that is six feet or more in length. So the 0:17:27.760 --> 0:17:31.800 cyber truck just happened to have a six foot bed. Yeah, 0:17:32.119 --> 0:17:34.399 so you can deduct one hundred percent of value in 0:17:34.440 --> 0:17:37.320 the first year from what I understand for these vehicles 0:17:37.480 --> 0:17:39.680 which have a six foot bed. At least this was 0:17:39.720 --> 0:17:42.199 the case when I was looking. I became aware of 0:17:42.200 --> 0:17:43.800 the exact nature of this when I went on the 0:17:43.800 --> 0:17:47.000 Cyber Truck Owners Club forum and looked what tax deduct 0:17:47.119 --> 0:17:49.720 peoples were doing, right, and then I worked back from there, 0:17:49.720 --> 0:17:51.760 and it does seem that people are doing this. I 0:17:51.760 --> 0:17:53.480 think it might be changing. So you can only deduct 0:17:53.520 --> 0:17:56.280 a certain percentage soon. It will shock listeners to hear 0:17:56.320 --> 0:17:58.680 that I'm not giving you tax advice, nor am I 0:17:58.800 --> 0:18:02.159 qualified to do so. Accountant, This is not this is 0:18:02.200 --> 0:18:06.560 not accounting advice. On top of that, Mia mentioned the 0:18:06.640 --> 0:18:09.480 IRS Commercial Clean Vehicle credit. Right, that's a credit, not 0:18:09.520 --> 0:18:12.960 a deduction, So the deduction would discount the amount of 0:18:13.000 --> 0:18:15.800 your income that you pay tax on versus the credit, 0:18:15.840 --> 0:18:19.560 which is just great credit. So potentially the person could 0:18:19.600 --> 0:18:22.680 deduct the cost of the cyber truck plus the cost 0:18:22.720 --> 0:18:24.720 of wrapping the fucking cyber truck ruck to prove it's 0:18:24.720 --> 0:18:28.040 a business vehicle, and then if you're wrapping it. From 0:18:28.040 --> 0:18:30.119 what I understand, like these deductions somewhat depend on the 0:18:30.119 --> 0:18:34.359 percentage of the vehicle's use that is business. I guess 0:18:34.800 --> 0:18:36.840 this could be like the equivalent of fringes on the 0:18:36.840 --> 0:18:39.840 flag tax theory, people claiming that when they're driving their 0:18:40.240 --> 0:18:45.000 their cyber truck to go to Whole Foods but it's wrapped, 0:18:45.600 --> 0:18:48.639 they're advertising a business, so it's a business use. I 0:18:48.760 --> 0:18:52.120 don't understand how viable that is as a claim, but well, 0:18:52.160 --> 0:18:52.560 you know, but. 0:18:52.840 --> 0:18:56.640 Part of this is, like it's very easy, like especially 0:18:56.720 --> 0:18:59.280 right now when the irs is being gutted, Like it's 0:18:59.400 --> 0:19:01.760 very easy to do this kind of bullshit. 0:19:01.400 --> 0:19:03.000 And people are not getting all it did. 0:19:03.240 --> 0:19:04.080 Yeah. 0:19:04.280 --> 0:19:07.040 Yeah, so they can take a seven thy five hundred 0:19:07.080 --> 0:19:11.000 commercial vehicle clean vehicle credit in addition to deducting that much, 0:19:11.040 --> 0:19:15.359 and like you would struggle to persuade me that that 0:19:15.480 --> 0:19:17.280 is not why a lot of people are buying cyber 0:19:17.320 --> 0:19:19.359 trucks right, Like it's got the weight rating, it's got 0:19:19.400 --> 0:19:22.200 the bed size. Like it's a lot of people who 0:19:22.240 --> 0:19:25.440 wouldn't necessarily like not all trucks have six footbeds. Now, 0:19:25.560 --> 0:19:27.240 I will never buy a new drug because I can't 0:19:27.240 --> 0:19:30.840 find a truck that has like a decent seating arrangement 0:19:30.920 --> 0:19:33.960 and larger than six foot bed and four by four 0:19:34.080 --> 0:19:35.760 and doesn't cost more than I earn in a year. 0:19:36.280 --> 0:19:39.359 But like it's quite a like niche overlap of trucks 0:19:39.359 --> 0:19:41.640 that apply. And like for a truck with a six 0:19:41.680 --> 0:19:45.000 foot bed and a six thousand pound gross vehicle weight rating, 0:19:45.040 --> 0:19:47.560 the cyber truck's pretty small and it fits kind of 0:19:48.520 --> 0:19:51.280 with people who don't actually need a work truck that 0:19:51.320 --> 0:19:54.000 can none the less take advantage of the work truck 0:19:54.040 --> 0:19:57.879 tax deduction. So once again, thank you government for subsidizing 0:19:58.440 --> 0:20:00.800 the shittiest vehicle on the roads today. 0:20:01.040 --> 0:20:03.639 Yeah, and it's worth noting. So like like Tesla, well, 0:20:03.680 --> 0:20:05.239 you know, you'll see a bunch of things about how 0:20:05.280 --> 0:20:09.680 Tesla is like one of the like best selling car manufacturers, right, 0:20:09.720 --> 0:20:11.840 and part of it is from this but also you know, 0:20:11.960 --> 0:20:14.960 and this is this is the other aspect of this. 0:20:15.040 --> 0:20:17.280 It's worth noting there's a very good Bloomberg article out 0:20:17.320 --> 0:20:21.400 today by Amanda Mold that talks about how fifty percent 0:20:21.680 --> 0:20:24.520 of all American consumer spending is now by people who 0:20:24.560 --> 0:20:27.399 in the top ten percent of the income bracket, so 0:20:27.400 --> 0:20:29.560 people make two hundred and fifty thousand dollars a year 0:20:29.640 --> 0:20:32.320 or more, and that means increasingly that everything in the 0:20:32.440 --> 0:20:35.560 United States reflects the you know, the sort of like 0:20:35.560 --> 0:20:40.280 cultural affect of these bunch of fucking rich assholes who 0:20:40.400 --> 0:20:42.560 all also want to buy this for their sort of 0:20:42.640 --> 0:20:46.119 like like cultural grudges and you know, to like to 0:20:46.160 --> 0:20:48.199 own the libs and like show how like much of 0:20:48.200 --> 0:20:50.480 a fucking man they are. Yeah, and you know, and 0:20:50.560 --> 0:20:52.560 and and so you already you have that initial incentive, 0:20:52.600 --> 0:20:54.720 and then you suddenly have all of these fucking tax 0:20:54.720 --> 0:20:57.200 incentives that you get from buying this vehicle that like, 0:20:57.280 --> 0:20:59.800 definitely this is like designed with a shit in mind. 0:21:00.119 --> 0:21:02.880 Yeah, without a doubt, and it becomes, like you say, 0:21:02.880 --> 0:21:04.879 it becomes like a status good, and it becomes like 0:21:04.920 --> 0:21:06.240 a culture war signifier. 0:21:06.359 --> 0:21:06.639 Yeah. 0:21:06.680 --> 0:21:08.879 In addition to all those things, I guess people also 0:21:09.040 --> 0:21:11.840 like I've noticed that there's been a lot of backlash 0:21:11.880 --> 0:21:14.639 against people who own tesla's. If you go on the 0:21:15.119 --> 0:21:18.440 day we're recording, the top article on the front page 0:21:18.440 --> 0:21:21.800 of Reddit. On the third article Reddit, the top post 0:21:21.960 --> 0:21:25.120 is someone who's been putting pictures that say sell your car, 0:21:25.359 --> 0:21:27.359 and it's got a picture of Musk Zeke hyling on 0:21:27.440 --> 0:21:30.919 people's teslas in Boston. Ye shout out to that person. 0:21:31.280 --> 0:21:33.600 Yeah, okay, So we're going to take a break and 0:21:33.600 --> 0:21:35.000 when we come back, we're going to sort of finish 0:21:35.080 --> 0:21:37.760 this off with a sort of larger structural analysis of 0:21:38.240 --> 0:21:41.400 how this version of capitalism created Musk and where it's going. 0:21:51.480 --> 0:21:55.400 We are back now, I think this all. I think 0:21:55.440 --> 0:21:58.240 if you've been following Elon a lot, you've probably heard 0:21:58.240 --> 0:22:00.439 of most of this. I actually, okay, you've heard of 0:22:00.440 --> 0:22:02.320 most of what I've said to some extent. I don't 0:22:02.320 --> 0:22:04.200 think you've heard what James has said before, because I've 0:22:04.200 --> 0:22:07.240 seen very little coverage of this. But there's also something 0:22:07.280 --> 0:22:10.680 deeper going on here. The deeper thing going on here 0:22:10.800 --> 0:22:13.480 is that Elon Musk, on a fundamental level, is also 0:22:13.600 --> 0:22:16.920 a product of the endless bubble economy that we've all 0:22:16.960 --> 0:22:19.960 been living in for decades now. It's a product of 0:22:19.960 --> 0:22:23.640 an economic policy that the economist Robert Brenner calls asset Knesianism. 0:22:24.080 --> 0:22:27.159 So regular knesianism, right, is about you know, having the 0:22:27.200 --> 0:22:30.240 government spend money on things like welfare programs and job creation. 0:22:30.320 --> 0:22:32.240 Also you know, also like the military too, right, Like, 0:22:32.280 --> 0:22:34.600 let's not sort of like chigarcoat it, but it's about 0:22:34.680 --> 0:22:37.480 using a bunch of state money to like make there 0:22:37.560 --> 0:22:39.800 be jobs and using this to sort of I don't 0:22:39.800 --> 0:22:41.919 know though the way they call it is like countercyclical spending, 0:22:41.920 --> 0:22:43.600 but it's like they want to use the state to 0:22:43.600 --> 0:22:45.440 spend money to make there be jobs and to put 0:22:45.480 --> 0:22:47.119 money into the economy and to put goods into the 0:22:47.160 --> 0:22:53.280 economy to counteract economic downturns. Asset Knesianism is still the 0:22:53.359 --> 0:22:56.639 state spending a bunch of resources, right, But it's the 0:22:56.680 --> 0:22:59.600 state expending those resources both bureaucratically and in terms of 0:22:59.600 --> 0:23:03.080 incentives entries of sort of tax structures, and specifically also 0:23:03.680 --> 0:23:06.280 very much in terms of the federal reserves interest rates, 0:23:07.359 --> 0:23:11.480 specifically to increase the price of stocks. And also you know, 0:23:11.600 --> 0:23:13.520 and you know the reason he calls it assets, right, 0:23:13.520 --> 0:23:15.199 because it's not just stocks, right, it's also things like 0:23:15.200 --> 0:23:18.240 real estates. It's to increase the value of speculative assets, 0:23:18.280 --> 0:23:19.840 things that you buy because you think it's going to 0:23:19.880 --> 0:23:22.679 be worth more later. I have talked about this a 0:23:22.680 --> 0:23:26.000 lot on this show. This has been the fundamental the 0:23:26.040 --> 0:23:29.400 global economic strategy of most of the world's economies ever 0:23:29.480 --> 0:23:32.800 since sort of Japan kind of pioneered it in the eighties. 0:23:32.840 --> 0:23:35.520 As after the US sort of like kneecapped its entire 0:23:35.800 --> 0:23:39.320 domestic sort of export manufacturing economy through the Plaza Accords. 0:23:39.359 --> 0:23:41.440 And by the end of this fucking administration, everyone who 0:23:41.440 --> 0:23:43.320 listened to the show will be able to explain what 0:23:43.359 --> 0:23:45.800 the Plazative Cords and the River's Plasai Accords are from. 0:23:45.840 --> 0:23:48.240 We stop it won't happen here after that because you'll 0:23:48.560 --> 0:23:49.639 understand and you'll stop it. 0:23:49.920 --> 0:23:53.560 Yeah, you'll know, you'll know, you'll know the origin of 0:23:53.600 --> 0:23:57.520 the economy. Yes, so yeah again, the Plaza Cords, the 0:23:57.640 --> 0:24:00.440 US forces all of these countries to increase to value 0:24:00.440 --> 0:24:02.560 if their currency is relative to the dollar. This makes 0:24:02.600 --> 0:24:05.640 American manufacturing more competitive in nukes, all of their manufacturing. 0:24:05.680 --> 0:24:08.600 These countries need to find another place to you know, 0:24:08.800 --> 0:24:11.399 develop their economy, right, and the thing that the solution 0:24:11.520 --> 0:24:15.080 Japan comes to is real estate speculation, this blows up, 0:24:15.200 --> 0:24:16.800 This blows up. In the nineties, this is this is 0:24:16.800 --> 0:24:18.560 a whole bunch of the sort of Asian market collapse 0:24:18.560 --> 0:24:21.159 stuff is from this, and then the US is forced 0:24:21.200 --> 0:24:23.119 to do the reverse Plasea Cords in the nineties is 0:24:23.200 --> 0:24:26.679 Bill Clinton and you know, sort of annihilate American and 0:24:26.680 --> 0:24:29.119 manufacturing in order to sort of prop up the rest, 0:24:29.280 --> 0:24:32.240 like proper Japanese manufactory to keep their economy from completely employing. 0:24:32.320 --> 0:24:34.200 Japan's a number two economy in the world at that point. 0:24:35.560 --> 0:24:37.919 But again this means that the US has now been 0:24:37.960 --> 0:24:40.320 doing this. There's the famous things called the Greenspan puts, 0:24:40.359 --> 0:24:42.199 where like to try to stop a market collapse that 0:24:42.240 --> 0:24:44.359 was obviously coming with a tech bubble bleuw up. Green 0:24:44.400 --> 0:24:46.440 Span kept cutting the interest rates over and over again, 0:24:46.480 --> 0:24:48.320 trying to keep the bubble from collapsing. It just making 0:24:48.359 --> 0:24:50.560 it bigger, and then eventually it blew up. This is 0:24:50.560 --> 0:24:52.639 what two thousand and eight is was, you know, we 0:24:53.080 --> 0:24:55.240 did a whole bubble. I mean there's another bubble and 0:24:55.240 --> 0:24:57.720 collapse between there. But like you know, and this is 0:24:57.720 --> 0:24:59.560 what we've been doing for the last two decades, Like 0:24:59.600 --> 0:25:02.320 since two and eight, we've been creating this giant tech bubble, 0:25:02.520 --> 0:25:04.399 and this tech bubble shit, and this sort of asset 0:25:04.440 --> 0:25:06.560 speculation is also a huge part of the value of 0:25:06.560 --> 0:25:08.920 Tesla stock is just you know, people who've been given 0:25:08.960 --> 0:25:10.800 a whole a whole bunch of access to cheap credit 0:25:10.840 --> 0:25:12.840 and by and by people, I mean like not really 0:25:12.880 --> 0:25:15.040 you and me, like a bunch of unbelievably rich people 0:25:15.520 --> 0:25:18.840 have access to like incredibly cheap loans, and they use 0:25:18.880 --> 0:25:21.000 that money to buy Tesla stock. This is the sort 0:25:21.040 --> 0:25:23.359 of cyclical thing that just continues to increases the value 0:25:23.400 --> 0:25:25.959 of the company. And it's not just sort of like 0:25:26.119 --> 0:25:29.280 banks and investors. A lot of money that goes into 0:25:29.359 --> 0:25:33.560 Tesla comes in there from state pension funds. Yeah, from 0:25:33.600 --> 0:25:34.879 a bunch of bunch of of a whole bunch of 0:25:34.880 --> 0:25:37.640 different countries, and also like a huge number of American states, 0:25:37.680 --> 0:25:39.560 Like your teacher's pensions are all tied up in this 0:25:39.640 --> 0:25:42.480 because pension reform. But the way that we sort of 0:25:42.480 --> 0:25:45.080 like lost the pension as a normal thing was that 0:25:45.119 --> 0:25:46.680 it was you know, it was converted to four one case, 0:25:46.680 --> 0:25:49.520 and the people who still have like regular state pensions, 0:25:49.760 --> 0:25:52.159 all of that money is now sort of invested in 0:25:52.160 --> 0:25:55.280 the stock market and it puts billions of dollars into 0:25:55.359 --> 0:25:59.040 Tesla every year. And so this is also another aspect. 0:25:59.119 --> 0:26:01.560 This is this is the brought structural level on which 0:26:01.800 --> 0:26:05.919 on which US macroeconomic policy was designed to create a 0:26:05.920 --> 0:26:08.000 bunch of companies like Tesla and then US sort of 0:26:08.040 --> 0:26:11.080 like micro policy, the microcreation of markets to tax credits 0:26:11.119 --> 0:26:13.640 and you know all of these government contracts that they've 0:26:13.680 --> 0:26:16.680 been given to do like everything from like fucking build 0:26:16.720 --> 0:26:20.440 these cars to like put spy satellites in orbit, right, 0:26:21.080 --> 0:26:22.760 and like the US is like contract he got started. 0:26:22.760 --> 0:26:24.440 Like now, I mean like all of this stuff, right, 0:26:24.760 --> 0:26:29.359 is is literally how Elon Musk was created. Yeah, but 0:26:30.119 --> 0:26:31.360 there is a third. 0:26:31.240 --> 0:26:34.520 Even deeper level in which you know, we can look 0:26:34.640 --> 0:26:38.399 at at how how these cars are actually produced and 0:26:38.440 --> 0:26:40.880 how these rockets are actually produced, and they're produced by 0:26:41.800 --> 0:26:46.240 just incredible the incredible exploitation of a huge number of workers. 0:26:46.240 --> 0:26:48.280 And I think people tend to think about, you know, 0:26:48.320 --> 0:26:50.320 Tesla workers in the US, but there's Tesla workers all 0:26:50.359 --> 0:26:54.320 over the world. There's a huge gigafactory in shing John, 0:26:54.800 --> 0:26:57.840 you know, there's factories all over China, and you know, 0:26:57.920 --> 0:27:00.960 these workers everywhere are paid like absolute shit they work 0:27:01.000 --> 0:27:03.920 in unbelievably dangerous conditions, and at the end of the 0:27:04.000 --> 0:27:06.560 day they get a very small amount of money so 0:27:06.600 --> 0:27:08.320 that the richest man in the world can get fucking 0:27:08.400 --> 0:27:09.160 richer every day. 0:27:09.600 --> 0:27:12.960 Yeah, and that's before we consider like ingredient parts to 0:27:13.160 --> 0:27:17.640 Tesla's right, you know that we we just addressed, for instance, 0:27:17.680 --> 0:27:20.560 in our episode on Congo. Yeah, there are parts of 0:27:20.640 --> 0:27:23.840 your test Geotesla that come out of this country where 0:27:24.640 --> 0:27:26.480 there has been a war for as long as most 0:27:26.480 --> 0:27:29.919 of us has been alive. Really very little effort has 0:27:29.960 --> 0:27:33.000 gone into improving conditions for people there. Certainly for workers. 0:27:33.000 --> 0:27:37.080 They're doing jobs that are essential to like our economy 0:27:37.400 --> 0:27:40.760 and to like Mia and my four for a one 0:27:40.880 --> 0:27:45.760 k line going up comes from exploiting workers in Congo 0:27:45.880 --> 0:27:47.480 to an extent and elsewhere in the world. 0:27:47.600 --> 0:27:49.919 Yeah, and you know this is something there's something our 0:27:49.960 --> 0:27:52.200 standard of living is based off of. But at the 0:27:52.280 --> 0:27:55.760 end of the day, right Eon Musks, all of Elon 0:27:55.880 --> 0:27:59.440 Musk's profit comes from the fact that the States monopoly 0:27:59.520 --> 0:28:02.840 on violent is used to stop all of these people 0:28:03.040 --> 0:28:06.320 from ever attempting to resist him. It's deployed in order 0:28:06.359 --> 0:28:08.800 to stop these people from taking back the fucking value 0:28:08.840 --> 0:28:13.439 that they create. Now, Unfortunately, all of this sort of 0:28:13.720 --> 0:28:16.320 neoliberal tinkering we've seen for the last fifty years, right, 0:28:16.400 --> 0:28:20.679 this attempts to sort of like depoliticize everything and have 0:28:20.720 --> 0:28:23.800 everything run by neoliberal technocrats and sort of have this 0:28:23.880 --> 0:28:26.240 sort of like non politics where you're voting for two 0:28:26.280 --> 0:28:28.760 parties that are like literally even more the same than 0:28:28.760 --> 0:28:29.080 they are. 0:28:29.119 --> 0:28:29.439 Now. 0:28:30.240 --> 0:28:32.040 This attempt to do things like solve climate change to 0:28:32.119 --> 0:28:34.040 these to these promotion of carbon markets and create the 0:28:34.080 --> 0:28:39.120 sort of like stable like capitalist sogeniminy forever has ultimately 0:28:39.160 --> 0:28:41.800 been self defeating. It's why all attempts to regulate capital 0:28:42.440 --> 0:28:46.240 inevitably fail, because the functioning of the capitalist system, and 0:28:46.280 --> 0:28:49.160 particularly the function of the way this version of neoliberalism 0:28:49.200 --> 0:28:54.640 has worked, has concentrated like the most wealth ever held 0:28:54.680 --> 0:28:57.040 by a single human being into the hands of one 0:28:57.040 --> 0:29:00.239 guy who was a Nazi. And then these people use 0:29:00.280 --> 0:29:02.880 their wealth to cubate political power and seize control of 0:29:02.920 --> 0:29:05.920 the state, dismantling the systems that were meant to regulate them. 0:29:06.360 --> 0:29:10.080 And you can't solve this problem with regulation because again, 0:29:10.200 --> 0:29:13.560 eventually they will simply accumulate enough power, retake power, and 0:29:13.600 --> 0:29:17.160 eliminate their regulations. You can't even solve this problem just 0:29:17.200 --> 0:29:19.240 by killing them. I see people talk about like the 0:29:19.280 --> 0:29:21.320 killing of billionaires in China as like an example of this, 0:29:21.400 --> 0:29:23.960 and like a that's all political faction, lane fighting stuff, 0:29:23.960 --> 0:29:27.760 and they'll execute people specifically to sort of appease like 0:29:27.880 --> 0:29:30.360 the Chinese workers, so that they never have to fucking 0:29:31.080 --> 0:29:33.800 watch the pla get right out of Shanghai again. But 0:29:33.840 --> 0:29:36.520 the thing is, even if somehow you use the state 0:29:36.600 --> 0:29:39.880 to just kill them, right, it doesn't work, because capitalism 0:29:39.920 --> 0:29:42.480 will just produce more of these people. If you actually 0:29:42.520 --> 0:29:44.360 want to stop this, if you want to stop this 0:29:44.480 --> 0:29:49.000 elon Musk from destroying the entire country and quite possibly 0:29:49.080 --> 0:29:52.200 ending all life on earth by fucking with America's nuclear weapons, 0:29:52.240 --> 0:29:55.320 and so they're simply not enough safety mechanisms to stop 0:29:55.320 --> 0:29:58.520 someone from accidentally setting one off. You were going to 0:29:58.600 --> 0:30:02.480 have to destroy them completely. The permanent base of their power, 0:30:02.560 --> 0:30:04.720 the power of the oligarch, the power of the billionaire, 0:30:04.840 --> 0:30:07.840 the power of the dictator, must be broken. This tiny 0:30:07.840 --> 0:30:11.040 group of men cannot as a class, be allowed to 0:30:11.120 --> 0:30:13.920 own the stores and factories and fields and hospitals, supply 0:30:14.000 --> 0:30:16.600 chains to produce everything we need to survive. It must 0:30:16.640 --> 0:30:20.120 belong to us. We create their wealth. The only way 0:30:20.160 --> 0:30:22.920 to save this world is to take it back. If 0:30:22.920 --> 0:30:24.960 we want to save democracy, the only way to do 0:30:25.000 --> 0:30:27.520 it is to extend democracy into the spheres where Elon 0:30:27.600 --> 0:30:30.600 Musk rules as a tyrant. Democracy must march into the 0:30:30.640 --> 0:30:33.160 workplace to slay the beast that is lair before the 0:30:33.200 --> 0:30:36.160 despotism of the workplace consumes our political democracy and leaves 0:30:36.240 --> 0:30:40.000 us with despotism there too. They must cease to rule, 0:30:40.360 --> 0:30:43.520 They must cease to exist not as individuals but as 0:30:43.560 --> 0:30:45.680 a class. And the only way to do that is 0:30:45.680 --> 0:30:48.239 by giving control of their power, and their property and 0:30:48.280 --> 0:30:51.400 their wealth to the workers whose subjugation produced all of 0:30:51.440 --> 0:30:53.680 it in the first place. That is the tax that 0:30:53.720 --> 0:30:56.240 we have in front of us. The challenge that we 0:30:56.320 --> 0:30:59.160 face is that we face effectively the entire might of 0:30:59.200 --> 0:31:01.280 the American state, which is the one of the most 0:31:01.320 --> 0:31:04.720 powerful apparatus of repression that has ever been built. Our 0:31:04.760 --> 0:31:07.960 advantage is that that apparatus of repression is currently being 0:31:08.000 --> 0:31:10.760 run by Donald Trump and Elon Musk, who are and 0:31:10.800 --> 0:31:13.880 I cannot emphasize this enough. Maybe the two figures most 0:31:13.880 --> 0:31:17.600 emblematic of what the historian Mike Duncan's after his extensive 0:31:17.600 --> 0:31:20.360 study of a whole bunch of revolutions on the Revolutions Podcast, 0:31:20.400 --> 0:31:25.080 concluded to be the great idiots of history who either 0:31:25.280 --> 0:31:28.440 their sheer and unmatched ability to make the wrong decision 0:31:28.480 --> 0:31:33.200 at every single moment are what makes revolutions possible. And 0:31:33.400 --> 0:31:36.200 if these people are not the great idiots of history 0:31:36.320 --> 0:31:38.560 that allow us to bring them down and stop them 0:31:38.560 --> 0:31:42.160 from destroying everything that has ever been in this world 0:31:42.240 --> 0:31:45.360 that is good, then nothing else is. 0:31:47.480 --> 0:31:47.720 Yeah. 0:31:47.800 --> 0:31:50.560 We have the one great stroke of a good foiltime 0:31:50.640 --> 0:31:52.560 we have, right, is that that the old Paris been 0:31:52.600 --> 0:31:56.440 concentrated in the hands of complete idiots who are addicted 0:31:56.480 --> 0:31:59.720 to diet coke and being mad at that. 0:31:59.800 --> 0:32:03.760 You'll yep, And they you know, we have already seen. 0:32:03.800 --> 0:32:06.120 They don't understand how this apparatus works. 0:32:06.160 --> 0:32:06.240 Right. 0:32:06.280 --> 0:32:08.200 They fired the nuke police by accident. 0:32:08.520 --> 0:32:12.200 Yeah, so it's very funny that they're stripping themselves of 0:32:12.280 --> 0:32:16.000 the means of coercive violence. Yeah, when we start to 0:32:16.040 --> 0:32:18.400 make you spoke about controlled opposition, right, and the idea 0:32:18.480 --> 0:32:21.640 that like the great debate of our time is how 0:32:21.720 --> 0:32:24.640 much state regulation we should have and how much unfettered 0:32:24.680 --> 0:32:28.160 anarcha capitalism we should have. They are drinking the kool 0:32:28.200 --> 0:32:32.000 aid that got them in power. That is the one 0:32:32.080 --> 0:32:34.280 thing going in our favor right now, that they are 0:32:34.480 --> 0:32:39.000 dismantling the means of coercive violence because they genuinely believe 0:32:39.080 --> 0:32:41.560 the myth that if the state didn't exist, they could 0:32:41.560 --> 0:32:44.240 be even more wealthy and even more tyrannical. 0:32:44.400 --> 0:32:47.080 Yeah, and well, and the second advantage that we have 0:32:47.160 --> 0:32:49.360 is that they have been they have said about systematically 0:32:49.360 --> 0:32:51.880 alienating every single group of people who they would need 0:32:51.880 --> 0:32:53.880 as their political base. They are pissing off the military, 0:32:53.880 --> 0:32:56.760 they are pissing off the intelligence services. They are going through, 0:32:56.800 --> 0:32:59.440 and they are like systematically pissing off the farm states. 0:33:00.080 --> 0:33:01.840 You know, like the farmers obviously do not have that 0:33:01.920 --> 0:33:03.880 like don't fucking matter, but they're picking They're pissing off 0:33:03.920 --> 0:33:06.960 the agro businesses. They are individually going through and pissing 0:33:07.040 --> 0:33:09.200 off a whole bunch of the of the of the country. 0:33:09.240 --> 0:33:12.120 Scientific resources. They're going through, They're like fucking with the 0:33:12.120 --> 0:33:16.080 Social Security administration. They're individually going through and pissing off 0:33:16.120 --> 0:33:18.880 every single group of people on earth who matter, and 0:33:19.120 --> 0:33:22.440 people who like us under this system aren't supposed to 0:33:22.480 --> 0:33:25.400 matter until we fucking do something about it. And you know, 0:33:25.520 --> 0:33:27.160 the other big thing that we have right now is 0:33:27.160 --> 0:33:29.840 that he is pissing off massive sections of capital by 0:33:29.960 --> 0:33:32.000 by actually doing these terrorists, which they didn't think he 0:33:32.040 --> 0:33:36.360 would do, and by pulling apart his base of support, 0:33:36.680 --> 0:33:39.240 and by putting together coalitions of some of these people 0:33:39.280 --> 0:33:40.520 and not all of them, some of them. Some of 0:33:40.520 --> 0:33:42.240 them you just need to divide and conquer by getting 0:33:42.240 --> 0:33:45.080 them out from backing him, right, Like the whole thing 0:33:45.680 --> 0:33:48.080 with the Bolsheviks taking over in the October Revolution was 0:33:48.080 --> 0:33:50.720 that but people just mostly stayed home and that was 0:33:50.760 --> 0:33:53.320 how they won. Like that's that is largely what we need. 0:33:53.360 --> 0:33:56.080 We need these people to stay home. But these people 0:33:56.280 --> 0:33:59.240 can and will if we have anything to say about it, 0:33:59.280 --> 0:34:02.480 be fucking we'sriven home and hopefully we can bury both 0:34:02.520 --> 0:34:05.040 the grave diggers and the people whose graves they were 0:34:05.040 --> 0:34:07.680 digging in the same spot in the dust bit of 0:34:07.800 --> 0:34:10.160 history and never have to deal with these fucking assholes again. 0:34:31.400 --> 0:34:34.000 Welcome to it could happen here to show that things 0:34:34.080 --> 0:34:37.920 falling apart. I'm Garrison Davis and I'm joined today by 0:34:37.960 --> 0:34:42.080 a special guest host, Richard's Todd. Welcome back to the show. 0:34:42.360 --> 0:34:44.359 Ah, thank you, so much for having me. I am 0:34:44.520 --> 0:34:46.759 completely excited to be here. I am a listener of 0:34:46.760 --> 0:34:48.719 the show, so it feels like getting to be on 0:34:48.760 --> 0:34:51.360 a show that I actually freak out too often. 0:34:51.800 --> 0:34:54.360 And I'm very excited for you to be here because 0:34:54.400 --> 0:34:57.720 you have a special report on one of the people 0:34:57.800 --> 0:35:04.440 who I've been cyberstalking for you, and I'm very excited 0:35:04.960 --> 0:35:07.000 to hear the details of what she's been up to 0:35:07.040 --> 0:35:09.600 these past few weeks. I kind of know the rough 0:35:09.600 --> 0:35:13.360 overview because again because of my cybers talking, but I've 0:35:13.440 --> 0:35:15.880 not done a deep dive the way you have, So 0:35:15.920 --> 0:35:18.560 I'm very excited to hear an update on this on 0:35:18.600 --> 0:35:19.200 this character. 0:35:19.320 --> 0:35:21.399 So it sounds like we are in a similar place 0:35:21.400 --> 0:35:23.160 when it comes to this person, and this person is 0:35:23.200 --> 0:35:26.200 none other than Candice Owens. First of all, what are 0:35:26.239 --> 0:35:29.640 your thoughts on her? Because I am low key fascinated 0:35:29.680 --> 0:35:32.399 with her. I follow her on social media, I watch 0:35:32.480 --> 0:35:33.840 her videos like I am. 0:35:33.760 --> 0:35:35.839 Like weirdly captivated by her. 0:35:36.480 --> 0:35:40.320 I mean, I've I've covered her mostly through her involvement 0:35:40.360 --> 0:35:43.080 with Daily Wire. I've talked a little bit about kind 0:35:43.120 --> 0:35:46.040 of how that'll fell apart, you know, like a year 0:35:46.080 --> 0:35:48.359 and a half ago or so, I've talked a little 0:35:48.360 --> 0:35:51.280 bit about her involvement in Turning Point USA with Charlie Kirk, 0:35:51.640 --> 0:35:53.279 and she's just kind of been one of like these 0:35:53.320 --> 0:35:56.920 like randomly, you know, like like orbiters, like the online 0:35:57.360 --> 0:36:00.319 like right wing content sphere for like I don't know, 0:36:00.360 --> 0:36:03.480 the past six years at least, and I typically focused 0:36:03.480 --> 0:36:05.520 more on like you know, like the Ben Shapiro's, the 0:36:05.560 --> 0:36:07.920 Matt Walsh's, you know, back in the day, the Stephen 0:36:08.000 --> 0:36:10.920 Crowders and stuff. But Candas was always just like around 0:36:11.320 --> 0:36:14.320 and like she definitely like went after a different demographic 0:36:14.360 --> 0:36:17.280 than what like my usual focuses, right Like I'm focused 0:36:17.280 --> 0:36:21.200 on like what's going on with straight white men, like 0:36:21.280 --> 0:36:25.080 why why are they like this? And who who is 0:36:25.120 --> 0:36:26.960 targeting them? And you know, and that's you know, that's 0:36:27.000 --> 0:36:29.560 like the Matt Walsh, like Stephen Crowder kind of angle. 0:36:30.000 --> 0:36:31.840 Like Candas Owens has like a kind of a broader 0:36:31.920 --> 0:36:35.080 net that she targets with her content. So like she's 0:36:35.080 --> 0:36:36.760 always kind of come up as like a side character. 0:36:37.000 --> 0:36:39.360 I don't think I've ever done like a distinct focus 0:36:39.400 --> 0:36:41.880 on her before besides just you know whatever kind of 0:36:41.960 --> 0:36:44.680 crazy post or like you know, anti trans or like 0:36:45.040 --> 0:36:47.160 very like weird like racist rank that she goes on 0:36:47.280 --> 0:36:48.440 like every once in a while. 0:36:48.960 --> 0:36:52.000 Yes, so there is so much to talk about when 0:36:52.000 --> 0:36:54.399 it comes to Candace Owens. I'm sort of like you, 0:36:54.440 --> 0:36:56.320 like I sort of saw her as a side character, 0:36:56.400 --> 0:36:59.640 but only recently have I realized, like, oh, people in 0:36:59.680 --> 0:37:03.240 my life life are listening to Candace Owens and citing 0:37:03.320 --> 0:37:06.120 Candace Owens and they have no idea any about her, 0:37:06.160 --> 0:37:07.280 anything about her backstory. 0:37:07.360 --> 0:37:08.759 Yeah, all the stuff that you that you were just 0:37:08.800 --> 0:37:09.440 talking about. 0:37:09.560 --> 0:37:12.799 She's like reinvented herself like multiple times. And you know, 0:37:12.920 --> 0:37:14.680 some people who mainly come at this from like the 0:37:14.680 --> 0:37:17.920 anti fascist research perspective might not be aware of her 0:37:17.920 --> 0:37:20.719 like latest rebrand, which is what I'm excited to hear 0:37:20.760 --> 0:37:24.000 about today. Yes, I just remembered how she had that 0:37:24.040 --> 0:37:27.120 whole event with Kanye when she did her like BLM 0:37:27.280 --> 0:37:31.359 documentary that was a whole other Candace era. Yeah, so much, 0:37:31.440 --> 0:37:31.880 My god. 0:37:32.360 --> 0:37:35.480 I have to say I was like low key embarrassed 0:37:35.480 --> 0:37:38.759 for her because like during her Kanye West era, she 0:37:38.960 --> 0:37:43.200 was like, Kanye West designed the katore outfits for my 0:37:43.360 --> 0:37:46.600 Blexit movement, and Kanye West was like, no, I fucking didn't, 0:37:46.760 --> 0:37:49.080 And like I was like, Oh, they're so embarrassing that 0:37:49.120 --> 0:37:52.680 you like that, you like publicly aligned yourself with Kanye West, 0:37:52.760 --> 0:37:57.439 only for him to basically like diss you publicly right 0:37:57.520 --> 0:37:59.000 after Yeah. 0:37:58.640 --> 0:38:01.160 And then come out as like an explicit neo Nazi 0:38:01.200 --> 0:38:02.040 like two weeks later. 0:38:02.239 --> 0:38:04.480 Yes, yes, uh, Candace girl. 0:38:04.600 --> 0:38:06.680 So I want to talk about her, like, I don't 0:38:06.719 --> 0:38:08.759 want to spend too much time on her background, but 0:38:08.800 --> 0:38:11.520 there are some pieces that I think like are good 0:38:11.600 --> 0:38:14.720 for understanding kind of who she is, this chameleon figure 0:38:14.800 --> 0:38:17.120 that she's been totally if there is not like a 0:38:17.200 --> 0:38:19.440 behind the bastard's on her, do you know, if there is, 0:38:19.520 --> 0:38:20.920 there should be If there's not. 0:38:20.680 --> 0:38:23.160 Not yet, Like similarly on bastards, she's been one of 0:38:23.400 --> 0:38:26.200 these like recurring characters, Oh my god, but she has 0:38:26.239 --> 0:38:27.480 not had a distinct focus. 0:38:27.800 --> 0:38:30.720 Robert Evans, get on it, because we need the Candace 0:38:30.760 --> 0:38:34.239 Owens behind the bastard. So Candace grew up in Stanford, Connecticut. 0:38:34.320 --> 0:38:36.880 While she was a student there, she went through this 0:38:37.080 --> 0:38:41.040 horrible sounding racial harassment. A classmate left her like this 0:38:41.200 --> 0:38:44.400 racist death threat on her voicemail. That turned into like 0:38:44.440 --> 0:38:47.480 a pretty serious local scandal because it turned out the 0:38:47.719 --> 0:38:52.080 student who made that threat via voicemail, did so in 0:38:52.120 --> 0:38:54.480 a car with a group of students that included the 0:38:54.719 --> 0:38:58.760 sun of the then mayor and then future Democratic Governor 0:38:58.800 --> 0:39:02.040 of Connecticut, Daniel Malloy. So she got tons of support 0:39:02.080 --> 0:39:05.080 from the local chapter of the NAACP, and her family 0:39:05.160 --> 0:39:07.840 ended up suing the Stamford Board of Education in federal 0:39:07.880 --> 0:39:10.560 court for failing to protect her rights, resulting in a 0:39:10.600 --> 0:39:13.520 thirty seven thousand, five hundred dollars settlement. She went on 0:39:13.560 --> 0:39:16.759 to study journalism at University of Rhode Island before dropping out. 0:39:17.440 --> 0:39:19.359 This is like the early two thousands. 0:39:19.680 --> 0:39:23.680 Yes, this was like young, like baby Candace, high school 0:39:23.719 --> 0:39:27.719 Candace before she was the Candace Owen that we know today. Yeah, 0:39:27.960 --> 0:39:31.200 so I sort of like almost see a little bit 0:39:31.239 --> 0:39:34.080 of myself and where she got her start. Like me, 0:39:34.360 --> 0:39:36.759 She was an early adopter of using the Internet to 0:39:36.760 --> 0:39:38.600 talk about things like race and politics. 0:39:39.080 --> 0:39:39.319 Like me. 0:39:39.600 --> 0:39:41.799 That also seemed to sort of manifest in a lot 0:39:41.840 --> 0:39:45.400 of like low hanging fruit shit posts on the early 0:39:45.600 --> 0:39:48.440 days of blogging. Like in twenty fifteen, she was writing 0:39:48.480 --> 0:39:51.319 blogs making fun of Trump's penis size. 0:39:51.560 --> 0:39:53.680 Sure, many such cases. 0:39:53.320 --> 0:39:55.920 Yes, many such cases. 0:39:56.400 --> 0:39:58.680 So in twenty fifteen, Owens is running a blog called 0:39:58.719 --> 0:40:02.440 Degree one eighty, where she wrote pieces criticizing conservative Republicans, 0:40:02.719 --> 0:40:05.640 writing about the quote that shit crazy antics of the 0:40:05.680 --> 0:40:10.080 Republican tea Party. The good news is they will eventually 0:40:10.160 --> 0:40:12.600 die off peacefully and in their sleep, we hope, and 0:40:12.640 --> 0:40:15.080 then we can get right on with the obvious social 0:40:15.160 --> 0:40:18.240 change that needs to happen immediately, she wrote on her blog. 0:40:18.520 --> 0:40:21.120 So back then she was really someone who had like 0:40:21.160 --> 0:40:23.759 a progressive point of view and was doing a lot 0:40:23.800 --> 0:40:27.359 of public writing about what she was seeing and experiencing 0:40:27.680 --> 0:40:28.839 in politics at the time. 0:40:29.360 --> 0:40:31.160 Yeah, no, this is something that I guess some people 0:40:31.239 --> 0:40:33.680 might not know if they've only like become aware of 0:40:33.719 --> 0:40:36.840 her through daily wires. Yeah, like in the pre twenty 0:40:36.920 --> 0:40:40.719 sixteen like BuzzFeed internet kind of sphere. She was just 0:40:41.280 --> 0:40:43.000 like one of like these people who would yeah, have 0:40:43.080 --> 0:40:47.640 like like you know, progressive like ish takes, criticize embarrassing 0:40:48.280 --> 0:40:52.480 like politicians, and like overtly racist stuff happening. And then 0:40:52.640 --> 0:40:55.840 the degree to which this this like heel turn happens 0:40:56.040 --> 0:40:58.399 is like one of the most stark examples I've seen 0:40:58.440 --> 0:41:01.200 in like a cop I don't know, I'm trying to 0:41:01.200 --> 0:41:03.240 think of it. If there's like any like exact parallel. 0:41:03.280 --> 0:41:05.759 I don't know, like there's like certainly some like detransition 0:41:05.920 --> 0:41:09.080 like a grifters. There used to be like ex gay 0:41:09.440 --> 0:41:12.920 influencers or you know this like like proto influencers kind 0:41:12.960 --> 0:41:15.880 of before influencers were a thing like x gay speakers. 0:41:16.360 --> 0:41:20.280 But yeah, the switch around on Candace from these blog 0:41:20.320 --> 0:41:22.400 posts is so concentrated. 0:41:23.040 --> 0:41:26.600 So in her own words, she describes it as happening overnight. 0:41:26.760 --> 0:41:27.279 There you go. 0:41:27.920 --> 0:41:30.840 Yeah, how it happened is like fascinating to me. 0:41:31.000 --> 0:41:33.720 So in twenty sixteen, when Gamergate was in full swing, 0:41:34.080 --> 0:41:37.480 Owen's launched a Kickstarter for a project called Social Autopsy, 0:41:37.680 --> 0:41:40.160 which she described as a way to catalog the abuses 0:41:40.200 --> 0:41:44.120 of trolls and cyberbullies. Fun fact that Kickstarter is still 0:41:44.280 --> 0:41:46.880 up today, it is such a weird time capsule of 0:41:46.920 --> 0:41:49.600 a different time. There's like a video of her speaking 0:41:49.640 --> 0:41:52.239 earnestly about the need to like have the Internet be 0:41:52.320 --> 0:41:52.640 a like. 0:41:52.920 --> 0:41:54.960 Safer, more equitable landscape. 0:41:55.000 --> 0:41:57.920 It is nuts, Like people shall go listen to her 0:41:58.000 --> 0:42:01.960 speaking about this project. So the plan for this project 0:42:02.000 --> 0:42:05.680 was essentially that she would create a way to de 0:42:05.800 --> 0:42:09.239 anonymize online commentators and then connect them with like their 0:42:09.320 --> 0:42:12.880 real names and their real life employers. And what's so 0:42:12.960 --> 0:42:15.840 funny is that, like that is the very same argument 0:42:15.880 --> 0:42:18.680 that a lot of people use, people who like want 0:42:18.719 --> 0:42:21.640 to restrict the open Internet still use today that like 0:42:21.960 --> 0:42:25.160 problems on the Internet, online harassment and abuse would all 0:42:25.160 --> 0:42:28.240 be improved if only everybody had to use their government 0:42:28.280 --> 0:42:31.080 idea and government names to access the Internet. And so like, 0:42:31.320 --> 0:42:34.799 it's very funny that that idea it was bad then, 0:42:34.920 --> 0:42:37.800 and it didn't really die, it was just recycled into today. 0:42:38.440 --> 0:42:41.080 Yeah, I mean, like there's a version of this that happens, 0:42:41.160 --> 0:42:42.719 or at least it kind of used to happen more 0:42:42.800 --> 0:42:45.040 in regards to like anti fascist research, where like you're 0:42:45.120 --> 0:42:49.720 like identify specific like extremely racist accounts or like explicit 0:42:49.760 --> 0:42:53.080 neo Nazis and contact their employer in in an attempt 0:42:53.080 --> 0:42:54.760 to get to get them fired so they can focus 0:42:54.800 --> 0:42:58.120 on getting a new job and supporting themselves rather than 0:42:58.440 --> 0:43:02.440 doing racism online and in person, especially if he's like, 0:43:02.480 --> 0:43:05.360 you know, a member of like a group, whether that 0:43:05.440 --> 0:43:07.759 be you know, the Proud Boys back in the day 0:43:07.880 --> 0:43:11.719 or many many other groups Patriot Prayer now, Patriot Front, 0:43:11.800 --> 0:43:14.240 that sort of thing. It's funny how hated this tactic 0:43:14.440 --> 0:43:16.880 is soon to be by people like Candice and the 0:43:16.920 --> 0:43:21.000 Daily Wire people. But here she's advocating it herself exactly, 0:43:21.160 --> 0:43:24.160 and they just like post Anita Sarkisian kind of content 0:43:24.440 --> 0:43:25.000 like world. 0:43:25.600 --> 0:43:29.440 Yeah, so pretty much everybody thought this was a bad idea, 0:43:29.600 --> 0:43:33.200 including video game developer Zoe Quinn, who folks might remember 0:43:33.400 --> 0:43:36.360 was kind of at the center of Gamergate and was 0:43:36.400 --> 0:43:41.200 like viciously attacked. Owens was subsequently harassed and docs, and 0:43:41.280 --> 0:43:44.600 she blamed Zoe Quinn and other feminists for this and 0:43:44.640 --> 0:43:48.480 said so publicly as you can probably guess, like people 0:43:48.719 --> 0:43:52.200 like Milo Gyanopolis loved this. People who were promoters of 0:43:52.200 --> 0:43:56.040 Gamergate really hyped up Owens's claims that like, yes, feminists 0:43:56.080 --> 0:43:58.360 were actually the ones doing all the online harassing. 0:43:58.680 --> 0:44:00.839 Okay, I can see this is going. 0:44:01.640 --> 0:44:05.120 So this event is what Owen's credits with her turn 0:44:05.200 --> 0:44:09.280 from progressive to quote becoming a red pilled radical. She says, 0:44:09.400 --> 0:44:12.719 I became a conservative overnight. I realized that liberals were 0:44:12.760 --> 0:44:16.960 actually the racists. Liberals were actually the trolls. She starts 0:44:16.960 --> 0:44:20.560 promoting right wing viewpoints on her YouTube channel, calling herself 0:44:20.600 --> 0:44:23.719 quote red pill black, which I gotta say is like 0:44:23.800 --> 0:44:27.239 pretty good branding, Like, I'm not mad at the branding there. 0:44:27.239 --> 0:44:29.759 I was like, Okay, black woman talking about like right 0:44:29.760 --> 0:44:30.920 wing stuff, red pill. 0:44:30.760 --> 0:44:31.759 Black I get it. I get it. 0:44:32.040 --> 0:44:35.440 Yeah, I'm interested to see how much the checkbook was 0:44:35.480 --> 0:44:39.720 a consideration here. Oh yes, how much your kickstarter god 0:44:39.840 --> 0:44:41.960 versus how much she realized she could get if she 0:44:42.080 --> 0:44:44.280 jumped on the other side of the content churn. 0:44:45.080 --> 0:44:49.160 Well, she almost instantly gets noticed by Charlie Kirk, founder 0:44:49.200 --> 0:44:52.200 of Turning Points USA Right, and he hires her almost immediately. 0:44:52.280 --> 0:44:56.919 She starts cranking out these videos that really perform quite well, 0:44:56.920 --> 0:45:00.719 that her videos really go viral. Video where she's doing 0:45:00.760 --> 0:45:04.840 things like dismissing the twenty seventeen white supremacist Unite the 0:45:04.880 --> 0:45:08.160 Right rally in Charlottesville. Alex Jones gets her to co 0:45:08.239 --> 0:45:10.680 host some of his info War shows. She's doing stints 0:45:10.680 --> 0:45:13.920 on Fox News as a paid commentator. Like business is 0:45:13.960 --> 0:45:15.920 booming for Candace Owens from this. 0:45:15.960 --> 0:45:19.040 Turn Yeah, this is around when I became aware of her. 0:45:19.239 --> 0:45:22.200 Yes, in twenty twenty one, she joins up with The 0:45:22.280 --> 0:45:26.320 Daily Wire. There was so much fanfare around them hiring 0:45:26.400 --> 0:45:29.399 Candace like it was a big deal. She moved to Nashville, 0:45:29.600 --> 0:45:33.120 fun fact, there was even a House joint resolution House 0:45:33.160 --> 0:45:36.240 Joint Resolution three fifty, a resolution in the Tennessee government 0:45:36.520 --> 0:45:40.600 to congratulate Candace Owens on relocating to Tennessee and for 0:45:40.719 --> 0:45:44.280 her work at Daily Wire. That reads whereas miss Owens 0:45:44.440 --> 0:45:48.040 has earned the admiration and respect of millions of Americans 0:45:48.080 --> 0:45:50.480 through her activism in support of President Trump as a 0:45:50.480 --> 0:45:53.960 black woman and her perceptive criticism of creeping socialism and 0:45:54.040 --> 0:45:55.719 leftist political tyranny. 0:45:56.239 --> 0:45:57.120 Very cool stuff. 0:45:57.640 --> 0:46:02.399 Yeah, imagine it being like a joint resolution in your 0:46:02.480 --> 0:46:04.520 local government when you move someplace. 0:46:04.840 --> 0:46:08.399 Yeah, the governor of Tennessee was like super excited when 0:46:08.400 --> 0:46:11.319 the Daily Wire relocated their headquarters to Tennessee and brought 0:46:11.320 --> 0:46:13.560 in all these people. Like there was there was like 0:46:13.640 --> 0:46:16.320 so many like private dinners meetings. There was like a 0:46:16.520 --> 0:46:20.759 like a number of resolutions welcoming the Daily Wire to 0:46:20.800 --> 0:46:24.120 Tennessee in this like twenty twenty one period as they 0:46:24.120 --> 0:46:26.680 were just starting to like launch their own like streaming 0:46:26.719 --> 0:46:29.640 service website, which is why they recruited Candice is because 0:46:29.640 --> 0:46:32.200 they were looking for content creators to fill out their slate. 0:46:33.000 --> 0:46:35.000 So you would think that this should be like a 0:46:35.000 --> 0:46:38.600 match made in heaven, right, smooth sailing. They need insidiary 0:46:38.680 --> 0:46:42.080 content creators. She's an insidiary content creator. Should be a 0:46:42.080 --> 0:46:46.000 match made in heaven. Perfect Not quite, because things end 0:46:46.440 --> 0:46:50.839 in like this really messy public fallout just a few 0:46:50.880 --> 0:46:53.840 years later. So I know that you've done episodes on 0:46:53.880 --> 0:46:55.920 this from my perspective, and I would love to know 0:46:56.000 --> 0:46:59.239 what you think. It's not one hundred percent clear what 0:46:59.400 --> 0:47:03.200 went down, but the public friction between Candace Owens and 0:47:03.239 --> 0:47:05.600 Ben Shapiro, one of the founders of Daily Wire, it 0:47:05.760 --> 0:47:10.520 seemed to be like related to reactions around the situation 0:47:10.600 --> 0:47:11.400 in Gaza. 0:47:11.520 --> 0:47:12.680 Yeah, totally so. 0:47:13.400 --> 0:47:16.000 Ben Shapiro is Jewish and Owens, as we. 0:47:15.960 --> 0:47:18.560 Said, has said and done like a lot of anti 0:47:18.560 --> 0:47:20.279 Semitic stuff, like a lot and. 0:47:20.600 --> 0:47:24.040 Like actual anti Semitic stuff like that people use that 0:47:24.120 --> 0:47:29.040 as a way to like shut down like very very 0:47:29.040 --> 0:47:33.200 admirable like like like Propelstinian like activism. No, like Candas 0:47:33.239 --> 0:47:35.840 owns just is anti semitic and this it's like the 0:47:35.840 --> 0:47:39.160 same thing with like Jackson Hinkele, and she made it 0:47:39.200 --> 0:47:43.800 like an escalating series of anti semitic claims after October seventh, 0:47:43.840 --> 0:47:47.840 which which slowly kind of like broke with the company 0:47:47.880 --> 0:47:49.359 and ben like more and more and more of an 0:47:49.400 --> 0:47:52.480 over series of a few months. Yes, and it's it's 0:47:52.480 --> 0:47:55.279 it's funny because like it also kind of mirrors this 0:47:55.400 --> 0:47:57.800 like online fight she had with Stephen Crowder like a 0:47:57.880 --> 0:48:00.960 year or so prior when Daily Wire trying to recruit him, 0:48:01.520 --> 0:48:04.520 and then she got informed about like how like abusive 0:48:04.560 --> 0:48:06.880 he was to his wife, and then she went on 0:48:06.920 --> 0:48:09.520 like a media blitz like against him as like as 0:48:09.560 --> 0:48:12.560 he was in negotiations like with the Daily Wire. She's 0:48:12.600 --> 0:48:16.080 like very willing to like stir shit up, like even 0:48:16.080 --> 0:48:17.920 if it like goes against her own interests or the 0:48:17.920 --> 0:48:20.440 interests of like whatever company she works for, Like she is, 0:48:20.520 --> 0:48:23.040 she is absolutely willing to like make like some kind 0:48:23.080 --> 0:48:25.960 of like chaotic spectacle regardless of her own like you know, 0:48:26.480 --> 0:48:27.600 financial security. 0:48:27.640 --> 0:48:30.200 I guess yes, like she I'm so glad that you 0:48:30.280 --> 0:48:32.960 mentioned that she is not afraid to get down and 0:48:33.000 --> 0:48:36.080 dirty in public. And I do think, like, you know, 0:48:36.480 --> 0:48:39.160 as a black woman who works with a lot of 0:48:39.160 --> 0:48:41.880 white men, I would imagine that she's probably thinking, like, 0:48:42.400 --> 0:48:44.879 I have to have some kind of decorum. I don't 0:48:44.880 --> 0:48:47.160 want anyone to say that I'm being a crazy black 0:48:47.160 --> 0:48:47.880 woman or whatever. 0:48:48.400 --> 0:48:49.719 She it's it seems like. 0:48:49.680 --> 0:48:52.040 She has no such qualms, Like she is like I will, 0:48:52.560 --> 0:48:55.719 I will make this a public, messy fight, and I 0:48:55.760 --> 0:48:58.760 am not afraid to make a genuine spectacle of myself. Yeah, 0:48:58.800 --> 0:49:00.680 and so it is really important to note that, like 0:49:00.760 --> 0:49:04.879 as you said, she wasn't just like criticizing the Israeli state. 0:49:05.239 --> 0:49:08.239 She was like getting into like blood liable and like 0:49:08.480 --> 0:49:10.239 deep conspiracy theories. 0:49:10.520 --> 0:49:13.680 Yeah, no, it was. There was some really nasty posts. 0:49:14.080 --> 0:49:15.960 Yeah, Like one of the things that she said, She's 0:49:15.960 --> 0:49:19.640 claimed that Judaism was quote a pedophile centric religion that 0:49:19.680 --> 0:49:22.360 believes in demons and child sacrifice, and that she was 0:49:22.400 --> 0:49:25.640 waking people up to the fact that pedophiles are in power, like. 0:49:25.640 --> 0:49:26.239 Stuff like that. 0:49:26.760 --> 0:49:28.880 Not great, not good, not good. 0:49:29.280 --> 0:49:32.480 So, as you said, like this starts to become like 0:49:32.520 --> 0:49:36.360 a public feud toward her employer. She wrote on Twitter, 0:49:36.680 --> 0:49:39.279 no one can serve two masters and ended her post 0:49:39.320 --> 0:49:42.920 writing you cannot serve both God and money, which Ben Shapiro, 0:49:43.239 --> 0:49:47.640 her boss, tweets like quote tweeted, oh my God, Like Candice, 0:49:47.680 --> 0:49:49.640 if you feel that taking money from the Daily Wire 0:49:49.680 --> 0:49:52.279 somehow that comes between you and God, by all means quit, 0:49:52.480 --> 0:49:54.920 Like messy is there It's crazy. 0:49:54.520 --> 0:49:58.480 That instead of having like a company meeting, they were 0:49:58.560 --> 0:50:00.000 just doing this on Twitter. 0:50:00.880 --> 0:50:03.000 Oh my god, and my messy ass was eating it up. 0:50:03.000 --> 0:50:05.080 I was like, keep fighting, let him fight. 0:50:05.680 --> 0:50:08.799 Oh yeah, no, absolutely, I'm totally willing to like watch this, 0:50:09.200 --> 0:50:11.240 watch this go down. I do not want to get involved, 0:50:11.320 --> 0:50:11.919 right right right. 0:50:12.120 --> 0:50:15.000 Owens like went on took her Carlson Show and said 0:50:15.000 --> 0:50:19.280 that Ben Shapiro was quote acting unprofessional and emotionally unhinged 0:50:19.280 --> 0:50:22.480 for weeks now. She said that Shapiro quote crossed a 0:50:22.520 --> 0:50:24.960 certain line. When you come for scripture and read yourself 0:50:25.000 --> 0:50:26.799 into it, I will not tolerate it. 0:50:27.120 --> 0:50:27.640 Very cool. 0:50:28.040 --> 0:50:31.560 Yeah, So, at one point, Owens tweets that she wants 0:50:31.640 --> 0:50:34.279 Ben Shapiro to have a public like debate with her, 0:50:34.520 --> 0:50:38.160 moderated by podcaster Patrick Bett Davide. Ben Shapiro was having 0:50:38.400 --> 0:50:41.480 none of this, he tweets, Candice, I can see why 0:50:41.520 --> 0:50:44.080 you'd want to hide behind a moderator, particularly one who 0:50:44.120 --> 0:50:47.320 said we should rename our company quote daily Jewish Wire 0:50:47.440 --> 0:50:48.600 just yesterday. 0:50:48.520 --> 0:50:50.959 No Jesus one on one Monday at. 0:50:50.880 --> 0:50:52.880 Five, we can sit down and have a healthy debate 0:50:52.920 --> 0:50:55.320 like adults, and we'll live stream it on x and YouTube. 0:50:55.360 --> 0:50:57.880 Take it or leave it as to the true reason 0:50:57.920 --> 0:50:59.839 why you didn't respond to my offer to sit down 0:50:59.840 --> 0:51:02.040 with you and discuss these issues publicly or privately back 0:51:02.040 --> 0:51:04.200 in February. I have no idea what the hell you're 0:51:04.239 --> 0:51:07.960 talking about. Like, this is employer employee going at it 0:51:08.080 --> 0:51:08.680 on Twitter. 0:51:08.960 --> 0:51:11.520 I can't believe I'm taking Ben Shapiro's side here, not 0:51:11.560 --> 0:51:14.600 just because he's Ben Shapiro, but also because he's an employer. 0:51:15.120 --> 0:51:18.160 But it's a really it's a really tough situation here. 0:51:18.640 --> 0:51:21.920 Yeah, I feel the same way, because, like it's just 0:51:22.000 --> 0:51:23.840 not a great look to have somebody that you just 0:51:24.080 --> 0:51:26.799 hired to all this fanfare coming at you like this 0:51:26.880 --> 0:51:28.880 on Twitter, like and I think, I mean, this is 0:51:28.920 --> 0:51:31.120 just my opinion, so like take that for what it's worth, 0:51:31.560 --> 0:51:33.319 just as somebody who has worked in media and been 0:51:33.360 --> 0:51:36.040 around the block. The reason why I'm not comfortable saying 0:51:36.080 --> 0:51:40.600 like their feud was entirely based on Owens's anti Semitic 0:51:40.680 --> 0:51:44.400 comments and behavior is that she just went so hard 0:51:44.520 --> 0:51:47.439 and so public that something to me, I almost wonder 0:51:47.480 --> 0:51:49.880 if there was like a contract dispute here that like 0:51:50.160 --> 0:51:52.160 she was like, oh, I can make more money on 0:51:52.160 --> 0:51:54.680 my own totally gotta get out of this contract or something, 0:51:54.719 --> 0:51:56.279 because like it just doesn't smell right. 0:51:56.320 --> 0:51:59.080 I mean, yeah, if she had like an inclination that 0:51:59.400 --> 0:52:01.080 she could afford to lose his job because you might 0:52:01.120 --> 0:52:03.399 make more money on her own, then yeah, absolutely that 0:52:03.320 --> 0:52:05.719 that would allow her to push this further than what 0:52:06.160 --> 0:52:08.319 she might otherwise might Like there's been a lot of 0:52:08.400 --> 0:52:10.279 a lot of discussion in the right wing contents fear 0:52:10.320 --> 0:52:14.120 about like the Daily Wire's fairly restrictive contracts despite still 0:52:14.160 --> 0:52:16.920 getting paid like tens of millions of dollars, there is 0:52:16.920 --> 0:52:19.920 like restrictions on like what happens when you lose monetization 0:52:20.400 --> 0:52:22.400 because the Daily Wires like a company trying to make 0:52:22.400 --> 0:52:24.920 a profit. So totally, I think there could absolutely be 0:52:25.000 --> 0:52:27.439 other financial stuff going on here. I think it's more 0:52:27.520 --> 0:52:30.520 like an interlocking series of issues rather than just one 0:52:30.560 --> 0:52:31.320 thing or another. 0:52:32.520 --> 0:52:37.120 Yes, So, after Rabbi Schmooley Boteach criticized Owens for her 0:52:37.120 --> 0:52:40.920 defenses of Kanye West, Owens liked to tweet asking Bouteach 0:52:41.040 --> 0:52:44.799 if he was quote drunk on Christian blood again, And 0:52:45.320 --> 0:52:48.239 I guess that was the final straw. A few days later, 0:52:48.360 --> 0:52:51.680 Daily Wire and Candace Owens ended their relationship with Owen's 0:52:51.680 --> 0:53:09.000 tweeting the rumors are true, I am finally free. Okay, 0:53:09.200 --> 0:53:12.279 So that's what happened with her and Daily Wire. So 0:53:12.760 --> 0:53:15.080 where is she now? Well, this is where the story 0:53:15.080 --> 0:53:18.480 gets interesting because I had not heard from Candice Owens 0:53:18.480 --> 0:53:21.120 in a minute, and my reintroduction to her appened recently, 0:53:21.160 --> 0:53:22.480 and what I was trying to make sense of the 0:53:22.520 --> 0:53:27.040 dispute between two Hollywood A listers, Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni. 0:53:27.440 --> 0:53:29.919 So the issue between Blake and Justin it's a little 0:53:29.960 --> 0:53:33.720 bit complicated and ongoing, but it's actually a pretty interesting 0:53:33.760 --> 0:53:35.680 story that includes a lot of things that I enjoy, 0:53:35.880 --> 0:53:39.440 like how celebrities use media and how social media platforms 0:53:39.480 --> 0:53:43.279 can be weaponized for or against specific people. Email correspondence 0:53:43.280 --> 0:53:46.319 where people make themselves look terrible in writing because they 0:53:46.320 --> 0:53:49.200 do not expect those emails to be in a deposition later. 0:53:49.320 --> 0:53:51.000 Like that is my favorite thing in the world, Like, 0:53:51.040 --> 0:53:53.520 please continue to put your wrongdoing in writing so that 0:53:53.640 --> 0:53:56.520 my nosey ask and read it later and be like, ooh, messy. 0:53:58.400 --> 0:54:00.960 So I do encourage like folks to read up on 0:54:01.040 --> 0:54:03.640 it because it does go beyond just like two celebrities 0:54:03.640 --> 0:54:05.880 having a feud, but you don't really need to know 0:54:05.920 --> 0:54:08.960 the specifics for our purposes. The quick and dirty version 0:54:09.080 --> 0:54:11.960 is that Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni were in a 0:54:11.960 --> 0:54:15.120 movie adaptation of the very popular novel by Colleen Hoover 0:54:15.239 --> 0:54:18.239 called It Starts with Us. In December, Lively filed a 0:54:18.280 --> 0:54:21.520 legal complaint against Baldoni, accusing him of sexual harassment and 0:54:21.560 --> 0:54:25.080 starting a smear campaign against her. Baldoni strongly denies that 0:54:25.160 --> 0:54:28.080 and has sued her. In response, both camps have released 0:54:28.120 --> 0:54:31.640 information like emails, text messages, and video that attempting to 0:54:31.680 --> 0:54:34.879 make the other look bad. So it has kind of 0:54:34.920 --> 0:54:37.840 turned into one of those ink blot tests that changes 0:54:37.880 --> 0:54:40.839 depending on whose version you buy. Version one is that 0:54:40.920 --> 0:54:44.200 Blake Lively was being sexually harassed on set by a 0:54:44.280 --> 0:54:48.319 fake feminist ally who is actually an abusive man, or 0:54:48.920 --> 0:54:52.440 version two that Blake Lively is an egomaniac who was 0:54:52.520 --> 0:54:55.640 using her star power and a list celebrity network like 0:54:55.640 --> 0:54:58.800 her husband Ryan Reynolds from Deadpool to control the narrative 0:54:58.800 --> 0:55:02.000 around her being a nightmare on set and steamrolling everybody 0:55:02.040 --> 0:55:07.120 on this project. Cool, yes, and so it's what's interesting 0:55:07.160 --> 0:55:08.960 about this to me is that it's one of those 0:55:09.000 --> 0:55:13.640 stories where algorithmically it depends on what silo or what 0:55:13.680 --> 0:55:16.920 pocket of the Internet you're at sure to determine, like 0:55:16.960 --> 0:55:18.759 what version of this story you're getting, like much like 0:55:18.880 --> 0:55:20.440 Johnny Depp's deformation lawsuits. 0:55:20.520 --> 0:55:22.120 Sounds too much like the Johnny Depp thing. 0:55:22.239 --> 0:55:27.239 Yeah, exactly, exactly, and so like, for whatever reason, TikTok 0:55:27.400 --> 0:55:30.320 thinks I hate Blake Lively and want to pour over 0:55:30.800 --> 0:55:33.400 every nuance of how she is a fraud right like, 0:55:33.600 --> 0:55:37.000 but someone else's TikTok might be like, no, Blake Lively, 0:55:37.280 --> 0:55:37.920 we should. 0:55:37.640 --> 0:55:38.319 Be supporting her. 0:55:38.320 --> 0:55:40.719 Like. It's one of those situations where just depending on 0:55:40.760 --> 0:55:42.319 where you are on the Internet, you might get a 0:55:42.440 --> 0:55:45.600 very different impression of the public sentiment, leaning one way 0:55:45.719 --> 0:55:46.120 or another. 0:55:46.560 --> 0:55:48.680 Yeah, yeah, this is all the types of things I 0:55:48.680 --> 0:55:53.200 try to avoid learning about at almost all costs. So, yes, 0:55:53.520 --> 0:55:55.040 I do not like you, you know. 0:55:55.200 --> 0:55:57.840 So I was trying to get to the bottom of 0:55:57.880 --> 0:55:59.719 it because I kept hearing about it, like everyone was 0:55:59.719 --> 0:56:02.480 talking about it. So I'm talking to my cousins, who 0:56:02.560 --> 0:56:05.759 I would lovingly describe as normies and that they are 0:56:05.800 --> 0:56:08.319 not super online. It's like they're not like you and me, 0:56:08.400 --> 0:56:11.000 They're not like deep into the depths of extremism or 0:56:11.000 --> 0:56:11.640 anything like that. 0:56:11.960 --> 0:56:14.960 No, they're not watching like the Daily Wire for fun 0:56:15.120 --> 0:56:16.000 Slash four works. 0:56:16.160 --> 0:56:19.520 Yes, yeah, and my cousins are like, oh my god, 0:56:19.880 --> 0:56:22.200 there is this black girl journalist who has been following 0:56:22.280 --> 0:56:24.799 everything and breaking it down. She has all the tea 0:56:24.920 --> 0:56:30.319 will tag you. That journalist was Candace Owens. Okay, so 0:56:30.800 --> 0:56:34.560 all right, you know, Candace has been making so many 0:56:34.640 --> 0:56:37.120 videos off of this and like her coverage, if you 0:56:37.360 --> 0:56:40.920 coverage in quotes, has really taken off online. As The 0:56:40.960 --> 0:56:43.239 Cut put it in a piece called Candace Owens has 0:56:43.239 --> 0:56:46.960 gone mainstream, they write the right wing commentators coverage of 0:56:47.000 --> 0:56:50.400 the Blake Lively Justin Baldonnie case has reached millions of viewers. 0:56:50.719 --> 0:56:54.080 Owens podcast was hours and hours of analysis of the case, 0:56:54.280 --> 0:56:58.080 deep dives into court filings, tabloid news stories, even Ryan Reynolds' 0:56:58.160 --> 0:57:01.920 recent snl Fiftheist Anniversary Space Secal appearance. One listener said, 0:57:02.160 --> 0:57:04.759 she's really been able to go in and pinpoint discrepancies 0:57:04.760 --> 0:57:07.000 and some of the things Blake Lively said, rather than 0:57:07.080 --> 0:57:08.520 us having to go through it on our own. 0:57:08.640 --> 0:57:12.120 Ah. Of course, it's the woman who's lying about being 0:57:12.160 --> 0:57:13.359 sexually harassed of course. 0:57:14.239 --> 0:57:17.120 One listener of her podcast says she recognizes that Owen 0:57:17.200 --> 0:57:20.120 seems to have a pro Buldani bias, but she doesn't 0:57:20.120 --> 0:57:22.720 care because, quote, she's urging us to look past the 0:57:22.760 --> 0:57:24.600 fact that this is not a feminist issue at all, 0:57:24.960 --> 0:57:27.560 that it's about getting justice for whoever is being wronged here, 0:57:27.800 --> 0:57:29.560 she's uniting the left and the right. 0:57:30.080 --> 0:57:32.080 The right wing Women's. 0:57:31.640 --> 0:57:35.400 Magazine also published a headline about this, saying how Candice 0:57:35.400 --> 0:57:38.320 Owens is uniting conservatives and liberal with her it ends 0:57:38.400 --> 0:57:42.800 with US coverage. So her coverage of this dispute has 0:57:42.920 --> 0:57:44.760 really allowed her to attract. 0:57:44.400 --> 0:57:47.680 A lot more viewers beyond her like normal right. 0:57:47.520 --> 0:57:51.080 Wing extremist base, which has generally been like a lot 0:57:51.120 --> 0:57:53.560 of white men like that who was really listening to 0:57:53.600 --> 0:57:56.520 her content before when she was with Dailey Wier. Now 0:57:56.800 --> 0:58:00.360 she has really branched out. So like normy, like my 0:58:00.440 --> 0:58:03.480 cousins who have no idea who Owens is, have no 0:58:03.560 --> 0:58:06.320 idea her background, her past, the work that she has done, 0:58:06.520 --> 0:58:09.400 and just think like, oh, she's a normal entertainment journalist, 0:58:09.440 --> 0:58:10.680 like digging and getting the dirt. 0:58:10.880 --> 0:58:12.480 I know she's doing this like on her podcast, I 0:58:12.520 --> 0:58:14.880 assume YouTube as well. She also just like trying to 0:58:14.880 --> 0:58:18.720 like flood TikTok, trying to flood like Instagram reachs. Is 0:58:18.760 --> 0:58:20.439 this kind of part of how she's trying to like 0:58:20.520 --> 0:58:21.440 expand her reach. 0:58:22.080 --> 0:58:24.880 It is like she's everywhere, and then she has her 0:58:24.960 --> 0:58:27.840 longer form podcast than YouTube. But then clips of her 0:58:28.000 --> 0:58:31.640 like you know, breaking down the top lies or top 0:58:31.840 --> 0:58:35.080 inaccuracies and things that Blake Lively has said. Those go 0:58:35.400 --> 0:58:39.480 super viral on social media. The short clips yeah okay, 0:58:39.640 --> 0:58:43.080 and all of this has been just gangbusters for her 0:58:43.120 --> 0:58:44.160 growth and engagement. 0:58:44.480 --> 0:58:45.480 Here's how The Cut put it. 0:58:45.960 --> 0:58:49.360 Since Owen started covering the Lively Baldani case, her YouTube 0:58:49.400 --> 0:58:52.760 channel has exploded in popularity, allowing her to attract a 0:58:52.800 --> 0:58:55.920 much larger fan base than the audience of hardcore conservatives 0:58:56.040 --> 0:58:59.000 she is amassed over the years. Each episode about Lively 0:58:59.200 --> 0:59:02.040 racks up at least one point five million views. In 0:59:02.080 --> 0:59:04.400 the past month alone, Owens has i asked more than 0:59:04.440 --> 0:59:07.120 four hundred and fifty thousand new subscribers on YouTube, and 0:59:07.160 --> 0:59:10.760 her total video views have quadrupled since this time last year. 0:59:10.840 --> 0:59:14.520 This is according to data from the platform's social blade 0:59:14.760 --> 0:59:17.080 oh No. Over the past three months, her audience on 0:59:17.120 --> 0:59:20.360 YouTube has almost started skewing sixty five percent female according 0:59:20.360 --> 0:59:23.280 to data provided by a spokesperson, a market shift from 0:59:23.280 --> 0:59:27.240 her past fan base. So yeah, she's exploding in popularity. 0:59:27.320 --> 0:59:31.240 She's everywhere, and now she's attracting like normy women who 0:59:31.320 --> 0:59:33.600 are just coming in for the celebrity dispute. 0:59:33.880 --> 0:59:36.840 Yeah, that's probably not gonna end well. 0:59:36.680 --> 0:59:39.240 Huh, well, I don't think it will end well. 0:59:39.440 --> 0:59:41.280 You know, I was like racking my brain trying to 0:59:41.280 --> 0:59:44.200 figure out, like, why has this story taken off so 0:59:44.320 --> 0:59:46.000 much for Owens? And there are a couple of reasons. 0:59:46.000 --> 0:59:49.040 I think this is like working for her. One, I 0:59:49.080 --> 0:59:52.960 hate to say it, but she is actually genuinely interesting 0:59:53.080 --> 0:59:56.640 to listen to. You know, when she was a progressive 0:59:56.920 --> 0:59:59.680 voice online, she definitely was somebody who had a point 0:59:59.720 --> 1:00:01.880 of view when a clear voice and a perspective, and 1:00:01.920 --> 1:00:04.600 that really that really comes through when she's breaking down 1:00:04.920 --> 1:00:07.600 Blake Lively in these videos. She has a way of 1:00:07.640 --> 1:00:10.800 speaking that really makes you pay attention and signals to 1:00:10.840 --> 1:00:13.880 the listener like this person is really breaking it down. 1:00:13.960 --> 1:00:17.080 It's the same reason why on TikTok or social media 1:00:17.080 --> 1:00:19.840 when someone is like story time or like I'm about 1:00:19.840 --> 1:00:23.000 to tell you all the details of something. Those videos 1:00:23.080 --> 1:00:25.640 always perform very well on social media, and I think 1:00:25.640 --> 1:00:28.360 that Owens is is just very good at knowing how 1:00:28.400 --> 1:00:30.720 to hold somebody's attention online, Like I have to say it. 1:00:30.960 --> 1:00:35.760 Sure, I mean she's been doing the content churn for 1:00:35.840 --> 1:00:38.480 almost a decade now, Like, yeah, you you do get 1:00:38.520 --> 1:00:41.400 good at it on like a technical proficiency level. 1:00:41.640 --> 1:00:41.880 Yes. 1:00:42.320 --> 1:00:47.080 Also, you know, we just love good old fashioned misogyny. 1:00:47.520 --> 1:00:49.840 And if that misogyny can be laced with like a 1:00:49.880 --> 1:00:52.000 conspiracy theory, oh yeah, I think. 1:00:51.840 --> 1:00:53.040 That's it's even better. 1:00:53.440 --> 1:00:56.280 So, like I think that part of this is just 1:00:56.320 --> 1:00:59.640 like social media platforms are always going to amplify misogyny. 1:01:00.320 --> 1:01:03.120 I would argue that things like misogyny, transphobia, massage noire, 1:01:03.200 --> 1:01:05.560 or racism, all of that is like baked into the 1:01:05.640 --> 1:01:08.640 experience of showing up online as a feature, not a bug. 1:01:08.960 --> 1:01:12.200 And I think that Omens takes it even further because 1:01:12.240 --> 1:01:16.600 she is breaking it down like she's uncovering some conspiracy. 1:01:16.680 --> 1:01:20.240 Like it's not just let's talk about about Blake Lively, 1:01:20.280 --> 1:01:23.240 it's I'm uncovering the web of lies and I'm gonna 1:01:23.240 --> 1:01:27.400 I'm gonna expose Blake Lively's dark truth, right, and so like, 1:01:27.480 --> 1:01:28.960 of course that's gonna take off. 1:01:28.920 --> 1:01:32.680 And she does gain this element of authority because she's 1:01:32.720 --> 1:01:35.640 a woman talking about this. It makes men feel better 1:01:35.640 --> 1:01:38.439 about being misogynistic because a woman's telling them it's okay 1:01:38.520 --> 1:01:40.480 to I mean, this is this is the same thing 1:01:40.480 --> 1:01:43.000 that she was able to weaponize for all of her, 1:01:43.040 --> 1:01:45.120 like like yo, anti black lives matter stuff for all 1:01:45.160 --> 1:01:48.040 of her, like like racism isn't real things. She tries 1:01:48.080 --> 1:01:51.280 to use it to her advantage, mostly to make like 1:01:51.520 --> 1:01:55.040 white members of her audience like feel good about their 1:01:55.080 --> 1:01:58.000 own racism because a black woman told them it's actually 1:01:58.080 --> 1:02:00.880 okay and like that. That's been like a big part 1:02:00.920 --> 1:02:03.760 of her career the past few years exactly that. 1:02:03.920 --> 1:02:07.920 And I think like she really understands that the inviting 1:02:08.080 --> 1:02:10.680 power of taking what you might think of as like 1:02:10.720 --> 1:02:14.120 a contrarian stance on something like yeah, totally, like after 1:02:14.160 --> 1:02:16.920 the Me Too movement, how many women got engagement by 1:02:16.920 --> 1:02:20.480 taking a contrarian stance, right, Like, I think going against 1:02:20.560 --> 1:02:22.840 the conventional attitude that says like, oh, we have to 1:02:22.880 --> 1:02:26.040 automatically support the woman in this in this dispute probably 1:02:26.080 --> 1:02:29.840 makes people tuning into omens's breakdowns feel like they're like 1:02:30.160 --> 1:02:32.880 free thinkers who are going against the grain, you know, 1:02:32.960 --> 1:02:36.040 by taking an unpopular opinion, which I do think connects 1:02:36.040 --> 1:02:39.080 to her more odious stances on things like trans people 1:02:39.120 --> 1:02:40.280 and women and Jewish people. 1:02:40.640 --> 1:02:40.840 Yeah. 1:02:40.880 --> 1:02:42.280 No, I mean, like you see the same thing with 1:02:42.400 --> 1:02:45.160 like you know, like the gays against Groomer's thing, right 1:02:45.200 --> 1:02:49.520 wing trans influencers, detrans influencers. It's the same, like gambit. 1:02:50.160 --> 1:02:52.560 And certainly I think, like, yeah, like your identification of 1:02:52.600 --> 1:02:56.480 her as like a professional contrarian is like very very 1:02:56.560 --> 1:02:58.640 key to her success exactly. 1:02:59.120 --> 1:03:01.760 I also think like part of the reason why people 1:03:01.800 --> 1:03:04.680 are attracted to conspiracy theories is that it allows for 1:03:05.200 --> 1:03:08.120 like fantasy world building, and I think I really see 1:03:08.160 --> 1:03:10.800 the ways that she injects that into her coverage, even 1:03:10.800 --> 1:03:13.200 the word coverage I put that in worlds because like 1:03:13.920 --> 1:03:16.440 she is like a wild person. To her coverage is 1:03:16.480 --> 1:03:19.800 like also wild. She does not adhere to, as she 1:03:19.880 --> 1:03:22.280 puts it, quote, a traditional style of reporting. 1:03:22.520 --> 1:03:24.240 You know, I'll take her word for that one, you 1:03:24.280 --> 1:03:26.360 know what, I'll. 1:03:25.560 --> 1:03:27.720 Believe her on that that single point. 1:03:27.960 --> 1:03:29.040 Yeah, I believe her. 1:03:29.120 --> 1:03:33.360 I believe that, you know, she amplifies rumors and even 1:03:33.520 --> 1:03:35.960 once she read a letter that she said that she 1:03:36.040 --> 1:03:39.760 got from Blake Lively's husband, Ryan Reynolds, his acting coach 1:03:39.800 --> 1:03:43.040 when he was twelve, and to Kenneth Owens, his acting 1:03:43.080 --> 1:03:46.040 coach said that Ryan Reynolds was an obnoxious kid. 1:03:46.680 --> 1:03:48.120 You know what, I also believe it. 1:03:48.160 --> 1:03:52.000 I oh, I have no trouble believing that. But like 1:03:52.320 --> 1:03:54.720 her coverage, it includes like side. 1:03:54.600 --> 1:03:57.640 Characters, Yeah, things that have this whatsoever? I mean, yeah, 1:03:57.640 --> 1:03:59.960 I feel like this, this focus on like this like 1:04:00.080 --> 1:04:03.200 conspiratorial ben is like the same. She's using the same 1:04:03.240 --> 1:04:06.280 tactics she did for her Black Lives Matter documentary for 1:04:06.400 --> 1:04:08.800 like most of our political work, like it, it's she's 1:04:08.920 --> 1:04:11.800 using the same tactics over and over again. And eventually 1:04:11.840 --> 1:04:14.640 she like reaches this like stress point or this like 1:04:14.720 --> 1:04:17.400 threshold where she cannot see a path forward or she 1:04:17.400 --> 1:04:18.960 can't see a way to surpass it, and then she 1:04:19.000 --> 1:04:22.120 does a pivot. This happened with her progressive blog, this 1:04:22.160 --> 1:04:24.600 happened even at the Daily Wire. She does not she 1:04:24.960 --> 1:04:27.480 doesn't work with Turning Point USA anymore. And like this, 1:04:27.480 --> 1:04:30.400 this new pivot is learning. Hey, it's sup super lucrative 1:04:30.440 --> 1:04:35.320 to be like a tabloid entertainment quote unquote journalist. Very easy, 1:04:35.400 --> 1:04:37.840 super lucrative, and all of the tactics you learned on 1:04:37.840 --> 1:04:40.680 the right wing media sphere work great here, Like all 1:04:40.680 --> 1:04:44.600 of this, like conspiratorial thinking really uh, a disregard for 1:04:44.720 --> 1:04:47.360 like like facts and evidence works perfect for this sort 1:04:47.400 --> 1:04:52.080 of like rumor based reporting, and it spreads like crazy, 1:04:52.360 --> 1:04:55.240 And yeah, it spreads across political lines. You don't, you 1:04:55.280 --> 1:04:58.760 aren't just targeting the mega people or like the far right. 1:04:59.120 --> 1:05:01.200 This this can be so much more broad to like 1:05:01.240 --> 1:05:03.160 the giant audience of like you know, quote unquote like 1:05:03.160 --> 1:05:05.720 a political people go to these platforms for a form 1:05:05.720 --> 1:05:09.440 of like of like escapism and entertainment rather than just 1:05:09.480 --> 1:05:13.280 hearing about politics yet again, because that's you know, very 1:05:14.000 --> 1:05:14.640 very tiring. 1:05:15.560 --> 1:05:18.200 Yeah, and I think in my mind, all of it 1:05:18.240 --> 1:05:22.560 is sort of sort of connected. Like Ben Shapiro, nobody 1:05:22.600 --> 1:05:25.680 cared more about celebrities or talked more about celebrities than 1:05:25.720 --> 1:05:27.959 Ben Shapiro. He would love to be like I don't 1:05:28.000 --> 1:05:30.800 care what Hollywood is doing, but he was obsessed with 1:05:30.880 --> 1:05:33.600 like Beyonce and Meg thee Stallion, Like it was just 1:05:33.680 --> 1:05:37.320 like a negative obsession. Like yeah, you know, anti fandom 1:05:37.440 --> 1:05:39.840 is still fandom when you make video after video about 1:05:39.880 --> 1:05:41.640 how much you don't like Meg thea stallion in a 1:05:41.760 --> 1:05:44.040 kind of way, you are a fan, just in the 1:05:44.080 --> 1:05:47.280 opposite direction. And so I think that Candice Owens really 1:05:47.680 --> 1:05:50.320 took that and learned how to perfect it because she 1:05:50.440 --> 1:05:52.080 is much I think that she is much better at 1:05:52.080 --> 1:05:53.040 this than Ben Shapiro is. 1:05:53.080 --> 1:05:55.000 Like the evidence being that, like. 1:05:54.960 --> 1:05:58.360 Her YouTube channel is exploding with people who probably would 1:05:58.440 --> 1:06:00.680 never watch any any of Ben Schipper here, I was content. 1:06:01.200 --> 1:06:04.480 The big bummer for me is that the Daily Wires 1:06:04.520 --> 1:06:08.680 first film, Lady Ballers left us on a cliffhanger with 1:06:08.680 --> 1:06:11.080 with Candas Owans and Matt Walsh sitting in a car 1:06:11.120 --> 1:06:14.840 talking about how Matt Walsh planned this entire like plot 1:06:14.920 --> 1:06:17.440 of the film as like as like some kind of 1:06:17.480 --> 1:06:21.320 scheme or like social experiment, and you know, it was 1:06:21.360 --> 1:06:23.160 implied there would be more. You know, it was like 1:06:23.200 --> 1:06:26.400 a you know, like Avengers Nick Fury type post credit scene. 1:06:26.840 --> 1:06:30.120 And now we're never gonna learn what Candae OANs and 1:06:30.120 --> 1:06:32.880 Matt Walsh get up to now because she's left the company. 1:06:32.920 --> 1:06:35.120 She's now doing her own thing. So now we just 1:06:35.160 --> 1:06:38.280 had this dangling plot thread that's just gonna bug me forever, 1:06:38.400 --> 1:06:40.520 Like what does the Candae Owan's character at the end 1:06:40.560 --> 1:06:43.560 of Lady Ballers Do next. I'm gonna be thinking about 1:06:43.560 --> 1:06:44.400 this for like years. 1:06:44.680 --> 1:06:48.160 America deserves closure. We deserve to know. Just putting that 1:06:48.200 --> 1:06:50.920 out there, I think we do deserve closure. 1:06:51.280 --> 1:06:52.880 I just think my closure is gonna be a little 1:06:52.880 --> 1:06:53.360 bit different. 1:06:54.320 --> 1:06:57.080 I am. I'm very fine having all of these plot 1:06:57.160 --> 1:06:59.919 threads wrapped up quite quickly, but I do not see 1:07:00.080 --> 1:07:01.880 that in the cards immediately. 1:07:12.080 --> 1:07:15.640 So in terms of where she's at now, like you know, 1:07:15.760 --> 1:07:19.440 my question is like, has Owens has this kind of 1:07:19.480 --> 1:07:22.520 like mainstream audience that she's been able to amass. Has 1:07:22.560 --> 1:07:25.440 she changed her views she is she trying to do 1:07:25.480 --> 1:07:27.800 a rebrand or a pivot. In an interview, she said, 1:07:27.840 --> 1:07:31.200 in terms of my perspective, I haven't changed anything. I've 1:07:31.200 --> 1:07:33.680 been anti METO since long before it was cool. 1:07:34.240 --> 1:07:37.160 Sure, I mean that can be true. It's also true 1:07:37.160 --> 1:07:41.840 that she is getting better at propaganda and widening her footprint. Which, yeah, 1:07:42.120 --> 1:07:44.480 then once her audience gets bigger, she might be able 1:07:44.520 --> 1:07:46.400 to slip in more things that I would find on 1:07:46.440 --> 1:07:49.800 Savory to a larger audience over time, But she also 1:07:49.920 --> 1:07:53.960 might be content to keep growing that and be slightly 1:07:54.000 --> 1:07:57.000 less off putting in the meantime, but no, like there's 1:07:57.040 --> 1:07:59.480 also just a huge audience for like the anti woke backlash, 1:07:59.480 --> 1:08:02.320 antiemetwo stuff right now. Like that's kind of that's kind 1:08:02.320 --> 1:08:05.320 of like the new mainstream frankly, so I am certain 1:08:05.360 --> 1:08:07.320 that she's going to try to continue to like flex 1:08:07.360 --> 1:08:09.919 that and grow that in the in the next few 1:08:10.280 --> 1:08:11.160 months years. 1:08:12.000 --> 1:08:14.000 Yeah, so I agree with you. 1:08:14.080 --> 1:08:16.960 I believe Owens when she says that, like her stances 1:08:17.200 --> 1:08:20.280 have not changed much easy to be like, Oh, well, 1:08:20.439 --> 1:08:23.000 she's pivoting to go mainstream now that she has these 1:08:23.040 --> 1:08:25.400 like women in her audience who are interested in celebrity. 1:08:25.800 --> 1:08:27.800 And you can, honestly, you can sort of see some 1:08:27.920 --> 1:08:30.519 of this in changes to her physical appearance. Like she 1:08:30.680 --> 1:08:34.640 was sort of known for having very severe hair, the 1:08:34.720 --> 1:08:37.599 joke being that she had alienated herself so much from 1:08:37.640 --> 1:08:40.120 her fellow black people, but like, no black person was 1:08:40.160 --> 1:08:41.519 going to do her hair, and that's why it looks 1:08:41.560 --> 1:08:45.440 that way. But lately you've really seen this like softening. 1:08:45.479 --> 1:08:48.400 She's kind of going for like a softer public look. 1:08:49.000 --> 1:08:52.160 She is pivoting to different kinds of programming. She's branched 1:08:52.160 --> 1:08:54.680 out into doing a book club for paying subscribers and 1:08:54.720 --> 1:08:56.640 some kind of a fitness program. 1:08:56.320 --> 1:09:00.000 That makes sense. Yeah, totally, like the health Guru fitness 1:09:00.160 --> 1:09:02.280 entertainment bubble. Yeah that's huge. 1:09:02.640 --> 1:09:04.759 That's such a good grift. She's gonna make so much money. 1:09:04.840 --> 1:09:06.800 Yeah, yeah, she is. 1:09:07.640 --> 1:09:10.680 But I really agree with you, gaire that, like, I 1:09:10.760 --> 1:09:14.720 think that these new followers are certainly going to be 1:09:14.800 --> 1:09:18.640 walked down a pipeline that includes for extremist attitude just 1:09:18.720 --> 1:09:22.280 using celebrity scandal as a hook, because, like as you said, 1:09:22.400 --> 1:09:25.479 celebrity scandals and celebrity stories are just considered fluff for 1:09:25.520 --> 1:09:27.559 a lot of people. So like, people who care about 1:09:27.560 --> 1:09:31.080 extremist content and ideology are maybe not seeing that as 1:09:31.080 --> 1:09:32.800 a space that they need to pay too close of 1:09:32.840 --> 1:09:35.880 attention to about these stories that you might see on 1:09:35.920 --> 1:09:38.759 the cover of an US weekly. But these stories actually 1:09:38.800 --> 1:09:41.880 can be used to tap into extremist ideologies and unleash 1:09:41.920 --> 1:09:43.000 them in a whole new audience. 1:09:43.040 --> 1:09:43.800 I'm like, yeah, like. 1:09:43.800 --> 1:09:46.760 You were saying, if you are just like watching a 1:09:46.800 --> 1:09:49.880 podcast because you're want to be entertained about a story 1:09:49.920 --> 1:09:53.400 about two celebrities, you might not have your like bullshit 1:09:53.439 --> 1:09:56.400 detector up to be like, wait, is this extremist content, 1:09:56.439 --> 1:09:59.679 because it's it's seen and treated as a less charge space. 1:09:59.720 --> 1:10:02.040 And so you know that line of thinking that says 1:10:02.080 --> 1:10:04.439 that you know, this is just fluff, It doesn't really 1:10:04.479 --> 1:10:07.600 matter what happens in celebrity news is not incorrect. It 1:10:07.640 --> 1:10:09.960 is dangerous because it lends itself to people being more 1:10:10.000 --> 1:10:13.640 susceptible to to it when extremist content is slipped in 1:10:13.880 --> 1:10:15.280 without even really realizing it. 1:10:15.360 --> 1:10:17.720 I mean, and like that relates even to like the 1:10:17.720 --> 1:10:21.160 originator of this gamer git stuff and the whole like 1:10:21.680 --> 1:10:26.559 anti woke like media fandom content sphere right where so 1:10:26.640 --> 1:10:28.679 much of like the anti book backlash has been built 1:10:28.720 --> 1:10:31.400 on people complaining that Star Wars is too woke. Now 1:10:31.400 --> 1:10:34.840 there's too many women in movies, there's too many black 1:10:34.840 --> 1:10:36.880 people in commercials. Where do all the white people go, 1:10:36.920 --> 1:10:39.040 There's too many gay people in TV, there's too many 1:10:39.280 --> 1:10:42.920 trans people in TV, and like that is it is 1:10:42.920 --> 1:10:45.759 definitely focused on by the rest of the Daily Wire goons, 1:10:46.439 --> 1:10:49.519 and you can very easily pivot back to that sort 1:10:49.520 --> 1:10:53.360 of cultural commentary after you're done talking about Blake Lively, 1:10:53.439 --> 1:10:55.960 like this is this is a very small jump where 1:10:55.960 --> 1:10:58.760 you're still talking about the entertainment industry, but with this 1:10:58.880 --> 1:11:01.559 like anti woke framing like, you know, why is all 1:11:01.560 --> 1:11:05.400 these minorities here? Why are they pushing transgenderism on kids? 1:11:05.920 --> 1:11:08.160 You know, whether that be talking about you know, transactors 1:11:08.160 --> 1:11:11.240 in the business, whether you be talking about you know, 1:11:11.320 --> 1:11:14.920 like female lead or like diversity casting, like all all 1:11:14.960 --> 1:11:17.519 that kind of stuff that especially Candice can use her 1:11:17.640 --> 1:11:21.320 like contrarian position to speak on authority about talking about 1:11:21.439 --> 1:11:24.120 why are you recasting these legacy characters to be people 1:11:24.120 --> 1:11:27.840 of color? Or why is a woman the lead of 1:11:27.880 --> 1:11:29.960 this thing when it should be actually a man? You know, 1:11:30.120 --> 1:11:32.519 just like very very basic stuff that's been a part 1:11:32.520 --> 1:11:36.160 of like the YouTube slop for a decade now, but 1:11:36.200 --> 1:11:39.000 it's still like still takes in a lot of a 1:11:39.040 --> 1:11:41.320 lot of clicks and it is it is a lot 1:11:41.320 --> 1:11:44.479 of like the Daily Wire and like right wing content 1:11:45.280 --> 1:11:48.360 still still does. It's all this like weird like culture 1:11:48.439 --> 1:11:51.840 warst stuff. It's very very tightened with Hollywood. Like you 1:11:51.840 --> 1:11:54.080 were saying about how like Ben Shapiro claims, you know, 1:11:54.160 --> 1:11:56.760 like hate Hollywood. He's trying to build his own alternative 1:11:56.800 --> 1:11:58.680 to it, but he can't stop talking about it, like 1:11:58.720 --> 1:12:02.080 he can't stop complaining about Disney's snow White. And I 1:12:02.080 --> 1:12:04.479 can see Candice doing like the exact same thing, but 1:12:04.560 --> 1:12:07.559 now with like an honestly like a bigger, a bigger, 1:12:07.640 --> 1:12:10.600 more like a political audience that's much more malleable and 1:12:10.680 --> 1:12:13.479 can be shaped around these like larger cultural trends. When 1:12:13.520 --> 1:12:17.800 you think about this like perception of this backlash against wokeness, I. 1:12:17.840 --> 1:12:19.639 Absolutely think that's what we're gonna see. 1:12:19.680 --> 1:12:22.360 And I can tell you we can finish by I 1:12:22.439 --> 1:12:25.400 can tell you about her next big pet issue, which 1:12:25.439 --> 1:12:26.559 is going to be yes. 1:12:27.080 --> 1:12:29.800 Championing Harvey Weinstein. 1:12:29.320 --> 1:12:33.639 Who she is no, no, no, So She's been interviewing 1:12:33.720 --> 1:12:36.759 him since twenty twenty two, according to The Hollywood Reporter. 1:12:36.920 --> 1:12:40.720 She explains, while he is quote an immoral man, he 1:12:40.800 --> 1:12:42.720 is also a justice system. 1:12:43.000 --> 1:12:45.320 A victim, sure victim, And she says. 1:12:45.360 --> 1:12:47.479 I've always had faith in our court system, and now 1:12:47.479 --> 1:12:49.760 it's beginning to change. Now I'm beginning to wonder if 1:12:49.800 --> 1:12:52.559 our courtrooms have been politicized. And the thing that's made 1:12:52.600 --> 1:12:54.000 her think this is Harvey Weinstein. 1:12:55.840 --> 1:12:58.120 It's wild. I mean, like Ben Shapiro is starting his 1:12:58.160 --> 1:13:00.960 own campaign to free Derek Chauvin. I think there's gonna 1:13:00.960 --> 1:13:02.880 be a lot of pressure on the courts right now. 1:13:02.960 --> 1:13:04.519 I mean, you're seeing that from like Elon and Trump 1:13:04.560 --> 1:13:07.160 as well. I think undermining the authority of the court, 1:13:07.200 --> 1:13:08.960 I think is actually kind of part of this larger 1:13:09.360 --> 1:13:12.280 concerted issue amongst the entirety of the right right now, 1:13:12.520 --> 1:13:16.080 because this is like their biggest remaining roadblock to achieving 1:13:16.120 --> 1:13:20.920 their right wing utopia is the court system. And I 1:13:21.479 --> 1:13:25.240 you know, this may not be intentional on every person's part, 1:13:25.320 --> 1:13:29.040 like Ben Shapiro, candastones aren't aren't like intentionally collaborating on this, 1:13:29.400 --> 1:13:31.920 but they may be copying each other's trends. And if 1:13:31.920 --> 1:13:35.559 they're seeing this this wider push across a large amount 1:13:35.640 --> 1:13:37.719 of like the right wing content people to put pressure 1:13:37.760 --> 1:13:41.120 on various aspects of the courts, including by using like 1:13:41.200 --> 1:13:45.320 high profile cases like Harvey Weinstein or Derek Shouvin's, that's 1:13:45.320 --> 1:13:47.919 not a great sign. And I can I can definitely 1:13:47.920 --> 1:13:50.799 see them trying to trying to do that in conjunction. 1:13:50.880 --> 1:13:52.000 I guess yeah. 1:13:52.040 --> 1:13:53.680 I think we're going to see a lot more of it. 1:13:53.800 --> 1:13:57.439 Candice has a series coming out called Harvey Speaks that 1:13:57.520 --> 1:14:00.880 apparently tells his side of the story. Look out for that, 1:14:01.160 --> 1:14:03.120 And I think that's the thing, like I think with 1:14:03.200 --> 1:14:07.200 her content, like when asked why it was she thought 1:14:07.240 --> 1:14:10.720 that her Blake Lively stuff was really taking off. She 1:14:10.840 --> 1:14:13.760 says that she believes her new fans on the left 1:14:13.840 --> 1:14:16.160 quote have just kind of gotten wise to the fact 1:14:16.160 --> 1:14:19.240 that maybe women lie just like men. And so I 1:14:19.439 --> 1:14:22.160 just implore folks that, like, even if you think that 1:14:22.200 --> 1:14:24.799 you're just like retaking in this content because you're following 1:14:24.840 --> 1:14:28.160 fluffy celebrity news or whatever, it is so easy to 1:14:28.200 --> 1:14:32.000 go from maybe women lie to maybe women can't be trusted, 1:14:32.080 --> 1:14:34.479 or maybe women shouldn't work and have jobs, a stance 1:14:34.520 --> 1:14:37.960 at Candace herself that's actually advocated for despite very obviously 1:14:38.040 --> 1:14:40.920 being a working woman. And so I don't think we 1:14:40.960 --> 1:14:43.920 should trust Candace Owens even if she does this rebrand, Like, 1:14:44.280 --> 1:14:47.240 don't let her rebrand herself as like just a celebrity 1:14:47.240 --> 1:14:50.920 investigative journalist. Like she put all of these odious views 1:14:50.960 --> 1:14:52.840 out into the worlds, and I don't want her to 1:14:52.880 --> 1:14:56.599 be able to like soften it or you know, soften 1:14:56.720 --> 1:14:58.360 what it is that she advocates for, what it is 1:14:58.400 --> 1:15:00.360 that she believes in, if that is truly what she's 1:15:00.360 --> 1:15:02.160 trying to do to just sort of like a mass 1:15:02.160 --> 1:15:04.720 a more mainstream audience. So don't fall for it if 1:15:04.760 --> 1:15:08.080 you're if you're getting tagged in Candace Owens videos, just 1:15:08.240 --> 1:15:09.880 know what she actually is about. 1:15:10.080 --> 1:15:12.080 I mean, yeah, I think I think for our audience, 1:15:12.160 --> 1:15:15.160 it's it's more likely that you'll have like family members 1:15:15.280 --> 1:15:17.800 who are going to be finding this stuff, and you 1:15:17.800 --> 1:15:21.799 should find a list of sources. Maybe this this episode included, 1:15:21.840 --> 1:15:23.400 but probably you know, you can find some articles as 1:15:23.400 --> 1:15:27.759 well that theyk of some background on Candace's history and 1:15:27.760 --> 1:15:30.479 and and previous beliefs. Can pick and choose some of 1:15:30.479 --> 1:15:34.120 her most like outrageous claims. So when your aunt sends 1:15:34.120 --> 1:15:36.759 you a video about how Ryan Reynolds and Blake Lively 1:15:36.800 --> 1:15:42.639 are kidnapping children or something, you can you can maybe 1:15:42.720 --> 1:15:46.719 inform Aunt Judy that maybe you shouldn't listen to everything 1:15:46.760 --> 1:15:48.479 this Candice Owen's character is saying. 1:15:48.800 --> 1:15:50.960 Yeah, this Candace Owens might not be on the money, 1:15:51.120 --> 1:15:52.240 might not be on the level. 1:15:53.120 --> 1:15:58.200 No, yeah, inform an Auntie today, Yes that's right, and. 1:15:58.080 --> 1:16:00.439 Uh, that's all I got. That's it. I don't know 1:16:00.479 --> 1:16:02.639 how you usually end these episodes. 1:16:02.360 --> 1:16:06.320 Usually by getting sad, but I don't know. This has 1:16:06.360 --> 1:16:10.479 been an interesting dive into the life of a woman 1:16:10.600 --> 1:16:17.240 with many, many careers, many a chameleon many personalities, A chameleon, 1:16:18.160 --> 1:16:20.040 a chameleon of contrarianism. 1:16:20.360 --> 1:16:21.400 Oh I like that. 1:16:21.600 --> 1:16:23.240 If I ever write a book about her, that'll be 1:16:23.240 --> 1:16:23.719 the title. 1:16:24.080 --> 1:16:27.920 Jesus Christ. Oh what a nightmare that would be. Man 1:16:29.000 --> 1:16:31.920 scary bridget Where can people find you online? 1:16:32.040 --> 1:16:34.280 You can find me on my podcast. There are our 1:16:34.320 --> 1:16:37.040 girls on the internet on this network. iHeartRadio. I mean 1:16:37.280 --> 1:16:39.559 you can find me on Instagram at bridget Ran DC 1:16:39.880 --> 1:16:41.639 or on Blue Sky at bridget Time. 1:16:41.800 --> 1:16:44.160 Well, thank you so much, good luck in d C. 1:16:44.640 --> 1:16:48.000 Thanks for holding holding the line out there as Elon 1:16:48.760 --> 1:16:51.439 puts a kildozer through your entire city. 1:16:51.520 --> 1:16:52.679 We're doing our best. 1:16:52.880 --> 1:16:56.599 I would would love to talk again about a DC update. 1:16:56.640 --> 1:16:58.439 Maybe maybe next time you come on the show. Oh 1:16:58.439 --> 1:17:02.000 my god, yes, please, there we go. Well we will 1:17:02.000 --> 1:17:03.799 talk then, goodbye everybody. 1:17:25.560 --> 1:17:26.599 It could happen here. 1:17:26.760 --> 1:17:31.200 I'm Garrison Davis, still banned from one of the top 1:17:31.280 --> 1:17:36.040 fifteen highest endowment universities in the country, but I am 1:17:36.080 --> 1:17:39.759 not banned from this podcast. Today I'm joined by Robert 1:17:39.760 --> 1:17:44.639 Evans and James Stout to discuss the very troubling news 1:17:45.560 --> 1:17:50.040 of students having their visas and or green cards revoked 1:17:50.520 --> 1:17:56.320 by US customs in relation to anti genocide protests. James, 1:17:56.360 --> 1:17:58.519 this is something that you've been putting together a piece 1:17:58.560 --> 1:17:59.600 on for a while. 1:18:00.120 --> 1:18:04.559 Repeatedly trying to warn people of Cassandra like to no avail. 1:18:04.720 --> 1:18:08.320 Yes, yes, I do feel like we kind of saw 1:18:08.360 --> 1:18:10.400 this one coming a little bit, but that doesn't mean 1:18:10.439 --> 1:18:15.000 it's not bad. And specifically the case we're talking about today, 1:18:15.320 --> 1:18:19.280 I think is particularly egregious because it doesn't actually involve 1:18:19.320 --> 1:18:22.920 someone's student visa. Right. So I've been working for a 1:18:22.920 --> 1:18:28.040 while on people who actually, under the Biden administration were 1:18:28.080 --> 1:18:32.640 potentially facing deportation, right, But the material difference between that 1:18:32.840 --> 1:18:36.240 and now is that those people were facing deportation because 1:18:36.280 --> 1:18:41.240 the university removed their visas or the university removed them 1:18:41.240 --> 1:18:44.639 from the university, and therefore their visa was no longer valid. 1:18:45.160 --> 1:18:48.400 In this case, it seems that the order came directly 1:18:48.439 --> 1:18:52.559 from the State Department to deport a guy whose name 1:18:52.880 --> 1:18:58.200 is Mahoud Khalil. So Khalil was a prominent activist in 1:18:58.320 --> 1:19:03.920 the encampment Columbia, Right, But what's notable is that and 1:19:04.200 --> 1:19:07.639 the events here, as best we can tell, went down 1:19:07.720 --> 1:19:11.080 like this, referencing an ap article here that will link 1:19:11.120 --> 1:19:14.759 in the show notes. ICE agents came to his front door, 1:19:14.880 --> 1:19:18.639 which is on university property, and told him that they 1:19:18.680 --> 1:19:22.280 were revoking his student visa and therefore he was being deported. 1:19:22.960 --> 1:19:25.800 He then informed them that he didn't have a student visa, 1:19:25.960 --> 1:19:28.799 that he was a legal permanent resident right colloquially referred 1:19:28.800 --> 1:19:31.840 to as a Green card holder. They then told him 1:19:32.040 --> 1:19:34.960 or his lawyer. At some point, he got his lawyer 1:19:34.960 --> 1:19:36.880 on the phone and was communicating with them through his lawyer. 1:19:37.800 --> 1:19:40.559 They then told the lawyer that they were revoking the 1:19:40.600 --> 1:19:43.920 green card, and at some point it's reported that they 1:19:43.960 --> 1:19:47.160 attempted to detain his wife, who is a US citizen, 1:19:47.439 --> 1:19:50.000 which of course is not a thing that ICE can do. 1:19:50.520 --> 1:19:53.720 So the difference between a legal permanent resident and a 1:19:53.760 --> 1:19:56.519 student visa is like the place I want to start 1:19:56.560 --> 1:19:59.840 this because they are materially very different. Right. Student visas 1:19:59.840 --> 1:20:03.000 are pretty fragile. People lose their student visas for lots 1:20:03.040 --> 1:20:05.840 of things all the time. A green card is a 1:20:05.960 --> 1:20:11.240 much higher barrier, and the revocation of his green card. 1:20:12.040 --> 1:20:14.920 We spoke a lot before this episode about like exactly 1:20:15.200 --> 1:20:18.000 kind of where this comes from. In Trump's missmatch of 1:20:18.040 --> 1:20:22.640 executive orders and speeches, right, because after he was detained, 1:20:23.120 --> 1:20:28.519 we saw Trump truthing about specifically using the word green card. 1:20:28.840 --> 1:20:33.200 We also saw Marco Rubio tweeting about removing green cards, right, 1:20:33.439 --> 1:20:35.720 Rubio being a secretive of State, normally the green card 1:20:35.720 --> 1:20:37.200 wouldn't be a state department thing. 1:20:37.760 --> 1:20:40.280 Now, it seems. 1:20:39.840 --> 1:20:42.320 The most likely course of events as far as we 1:20:42.360 --> 1:20:44.240 can tell from what we know right now today's the 1:20:44.280 --> 1:20:48.880 tenth of March, is that Ice came thinking he had 1:20:48.880 --> 1:20:51.800 a student visa. It's not particularly uncommon for ice raids 1:20:51.800 --> 1:20:53.880 to not have all the information on someone. From what 1:20:53.920 --> 1:20:56.840 I understand, I mean, this is just a police thing. 1:20:56.920 --> 1:20:59.320 Yes, it's not just like the caps who are doing 1:20:59.400 --> 1:21:03.240 raids reoff and don't have all or accurate information. 1:21:03.680 --> 1:21:06.320 Yeah, Ice in particularly very often don't have a judicial warrant. 1:21:06.320 --> 1:21:08.080 They have a warrant that they made they assign themselves, 1:21:08.080 --> 1:21:10.920 which is a different thing. They're supposed to require warrant 1:21:10.920 --> 1:21:13.160 to get onto Columbia University campus, but as of now, 1:21:13.600 --> 1:21:16.160 I don't believe Columbia have clarified that they did have, 1:21:16.320 --> 1:21:18.240 and I think the apology also allowed for them to 1:21:18.280 --> 1:21:22.559 allow Ice onto campus in like exigent circumstances. So we'll 1:21:22.600 --> 1:21:25.840 have to see what exactly that warrant was for why 1:21:25.880 --> 1:21:30.040 exactly Columbia allowed them onto campus. So it seems like 1:21:30.080 --> 1:21:33.639 they came a temperature evoke this guy student visa, realized 1:21:33.640 --> 1:21:36.680 you didn't have a student visa, detained him anyway, and 1:21:36.720 --> 1:21:40.799 then kind of expos facto, the these tweets and statements 1:21:40.840 --> 1:21:43.639 came out. But Garrison, you found some stuff in. I mean, 1:21:43.760 --> 1:21:47.200 Trump has made previous statements that are kind of unclear, right, 1:21:47.240 --> 1:21:49.200 he uses the word aliens a lot. 1:21:49.760 --> 1:21:52.320 Yeah, So we've been trying to kind of figure out 1:21:52.320 --> 1:21:55.800 the exact details of like what is going on, what 1:21:56.000 --> 1:21:58.000 justification they have for doing this, and how we can 1:21:58.080 --> 1:22:02.559 like extrapolate this out to larger trends because deporting like 1:22:02.680 --> 1:22:08.000 legal residents for college protests is pretty insane. And also 1:22:08.160 --> 1:22:10.200 the rhetoric coming out of the White House and like 1:22:10.240 --> 1:22:13.000 the White House like social media accounts around this incident 1:22:13.479 --> 1:22:16.479 is like extremely worrying, Like the way they're basically putting 1:22:16.560 --> 1:22:20.920 up like wanted posters for protesters and in general, the 1:22:20.920 --> 1:22:23.360 way that the White House account has been doing this 1:22:23.520 --> 1:22:28.200 like own the Libs, like mimetic nationalism that the past 1:22:28.240 --> 1:22:30.360 few weeks has been has been really upsetting. And this 1:22:30.720 --> 1:22:33.360 has continued around this issue, and I think it is 1:22:33.400 --> 1:22:36.240 worth focusing on this as like a specific escalation because 1:22:36.240 --> 1:22:39.120 you had people like mamad U Tall, who I think 1:22:39.280 --> 1:22:44.320 Cornell tried to revoke their student visa and then he's 1:22:44.880 --> 1:22:48.840 in some way negotiated back into that to stay on. 1:22:49.360 --> 1:22:54.759 The interim provost John Ceciliano eventually ruled in Tall's favor 1:22:55.240 --> 1:22:57.439 so he did not end up getting deported last year. 1:22:58.040 --> 1:23:00.920 And now this new development in relationship to the Columbia 1:23:00.920 --> 1:23:05.400 protests is a significant escalation. Yeah, because not only is 1:23:05.439 --> 1:23:08.639 this not just like the university revoking n F one, 1:23:08.680 --> 1:23:11.320 which they do have the you know, authority to, this 1:23:11.400 --> 1:23:14.120 is like coming directly from the Trump administration where they 1:23:14.160 --> 1:23:18.400 are going after specific students without the involvement of the university, 1:23:19.000 --> 1:23:21.719 and students who may be legal permanent residents. 1:23:21.960 --> 1:23:24.680 Yeah. Garrison found a fact sheet on white House dot 1:23:24.760 --> 1:23:27.040 gov where Trump is quoted as saying, quote to all 1:23:27.160 --> 1:23:30.320 resident aliens who joined in the pro Jahadist protests, we 1:23:30.400 --> 1:23:33.240 put you on notice. Come twenty twenty five, we will 1:23:33.240 --> 1:23:34.600 find you and we will deport you. 1:23:34.760 --> 1:23:38.360 And that would seem to include the legal permanent residence. Yes, yeah, right, 1:23:38.439 --> 1:23:41.960 like resident alien is a tax status. But again, like, 1:23:42.560 --> 1:23:46.200 I think it's quite possible that the vagueness in the 1:23:46.280 --> 1:23:48.840 language is deliberate, not necessarily from Trump, but there are 1:23:48.880 --> 1:23:53.120 other people within the Trump cabinet who might seek to 1:23:53.640 --> 1:23:56.320 use that vagueness for things like this, right, like who 1:23:56.400 --> 1:23:57.559 might see that as a benefit. 1:23:57.800 --> 1:23:59.800 Yeah, well, and you've seen that with other things, like 1:23:59.800 --> 1:24:03.479 with like with Rubio's State Department directives on trans people 1:24:03.520 --> 1:24:06.400 right now, where they keep the language intentionally vague. They 1:24:06.520 --> 1:24:10.200 leave the enforcement up to like individual actors, and then 1:24:10.200 --> 1:24:13.200 they can eventually like figure out the logistics like in 1:24:13.280 --> 1:24:16.200 court once people be like, oh no, this is illegal, 1:24:16.680 --> 1:24:18.720 So like, yeah, it is vague because they want to 1:24:18.720 --> 1:24:21.479 test the actual like full authority of their power. But 1:24:21.600 --> 1:24:24.840 I think the specific like fact sheet, which is like 1:24:24.840 --> 1:24:29.760 a sister article towards this executive order, says like James 1:24:29.840 --> 1:24:31.920 was saying, to all the resident aliens who joined in 1:24:31.960 --> 1:24:34.640 the pro gihattist protests, we put you on notice. Come 1:24:34.680 --> 1:24:36.760 twenty twenty five, we will find you and we will 1:24:36.760 --> 1:24:40.920 deport you. I will also quickly cancel the student visas 1:24:40.920 --> 1:24:44.240 of all Hamas sympathizers on college campuses which have been 1:24:44.439 --> 1:24:48.760 infested with radicalism like never before. So there you have 1:24:49.120 --> 1:24:53.879 him saying both resident aliens, which we can infer probably 1:24:53.880 --> 1:24:57.280 refers to Green cardholders, as well as student visas. So 1:24:57.640 --> 1:25:01.040 these are two separate things that he a specifically named 1:25:01.080 --> 1:25:04.280 as going after. And now you see more direction from 1:25:04.360 --> 1:25:06.880 Rubio after this arrest that happened on Monday. You see 1:25:06.920 --> 1:25:09.640 more direction from Rubio and the State Department in like 1:25:09.680 --> 1:25:14.880 specifically naming legal permanent residents as targets for removal and 1:25:15.040 --> 1:25:18.320 targets for ice actions, which is not something that is 1:25:18.400 --> 1:25:19.719 extremely common. 1:25:20.240 --> 1:25:23.120 Yeah, where I've seen it before was like in cases 1:25:23.160 --> 1:25:26.559 of material support for terrorism, which but that has quite 1:25:26.600 --> 1:25:28.960 a high bar of proof, right that's like a listed 1:25:29.040 --> 1:25:34.920 organization proving a material ie financial or physical support, right 1:25:35.040 --> 1:25:37.519 like in kind donations like I've written about a guy 1:25:37.520 --> 1:25:39.840 who is providing material aid to the Islamic State called 1:25:39.880 --> 1:25:43.599 Siki Remy's HODGEI sending stuff from bass pro actually like 1:25:43.640 --> 1:25:47.120 thermal scopes and hunting scopes and things like that. But 1:25:47.720 --> 1:25:50.800 that has a much higher bar than this, which we 1:25:50.880 --> 1:25:53.400 will see you because we have a legal permanent resident 1:25:53.439 --> 1:25:56.200 here and they're seeking to revoke that. I imagine we will 1:25:56.240 --> 1:25:58.000 see a court case and we will see exactly the 1:25:58.120 --> 1:26:02.200 justification for revoking his green in that court case. That 1:26:02.280 --> 1:26:04.000 will be some time in the future. 1:26:04.520 --> 1:26:05.920 Let's go on a quick break and we will come 1:26:05.960 --> 1:26:08.559 back to discuss some more of the details on what 1:26:08.720 --> 1:26:12.840 Mark Rubio is actually saying and where this could all 1:26:12.920 --> 1:26:25.720 end up. Okay, we are back. I would like to 1:26:25.720 --> 1:26:28.360 talk about specifically some of the rhetoric that Rubio has 1:26:28.439 --> 1:26:31.240 been using since this arrest and a little bit of 1:26:31.240 --> 1:26:33.679 what he was saying before. Like we were saying before 1:26:33.720 --> 1:26:36.599 the break, some of this kind of vague language can 1:26:36.720 --> 1:26:38.720 kind of be used to their advantage. And this is 1:26:38.840 --> 1:26:42.200 certainly like riffing off of very vague language that Trump 1:26:42.200 --> 1:26:44.080 would do on the campaign trail, right where he would 1:26:44.080 --> 1:26:47.439 talk about wanting to jail or deport protesters, like in general, 1:26:47.520 --> 1:26:50.920 regardless if they're student visa holders, green card holders, or 1:26:51.000 --> 1:26:54.800 just US citizens. Right like Trump has made statements about 1:26:54.800 --> 1:26:58.360 wanting to do all of that, and campaigns like off 1:26:58.360 --> 1:27:01.920 the cuff statements and the actual like government policy are 1:27:01.920 --> 1:27:04.160 two different things. And right now, like they're trying to 1:27:04.160 --> 1:27:06.680 figure out where the line between that is, like how 1:27:06.760 --> 1:27:09.240 much of this rhetoric can be turned into government policy. 1:27:09.920 --> 1:27:13.000 And we mentioned like the fact sheet from the executive 1:27:13.120 --> 1:27:16.559 order that I believe was signed in January, which is 1:27:16.600 --> 1:27:19.760 you know, to quote unquote combat anti Semitism. And then 1:27:19.920 --> 1:27:22.720 like last week, so before this arrest happened, we had 1:27:22.760 --> 1:27:28.040 a post from the Secretary Mark Rubio Twitter account official quote, 1:27:28.120 --> 1:27:32.680 those who support designated terrorist organizations, including HAMAS, threaten our 1:27:32.800 --> 1:27:36.040 national security. The United States has zero tolerance for foreign 1:27:36.080 --> 1:27:40.559 visitors who support terrorists. Violators of US law, including international students, 1:27:40.760 --> 1:27:46.000 face visa denial or revocation and deportation unquote, So that 1:27:46.080 --> 1:27:50.360 one specifically focuses, I would say, pretty pretty firmly on 1:27:50.479 --> 1:27:53.360 people who have student visas. Right, he names like visitors, 1:27:53.960 --> 1:27:57.559 And then after the arrest happened, he posted a different 1:27:57.600 --> 1:28:01.720 statement on his own personal account, quote, we will be 1:28:01.760 --> 1:28:06.040 revoking the visas and or green cards of HAMAS supporters 1:28:06.040 --> 1:28:10.320 in America so that they can be deported unquote, sharing 1:28:10.360 --> 1:28:14.519 an ap article. And then the Homeland Security DHS gov 1:28:14.600 --> 1:28:18.479 account posted on March nine, twenty twenty five, and supported 1:28:18.479 --> 1:28:22.120 President Trump's executive orders prohibiting anti semitism, and in coordination 1:28:22.160 --> 1:28:25.759 with the Department of State, US Immigration and Customs Enforcement, 1:28:25.920 --> 1:28:30.919 arrested Mahmud Khalil, a former Columbia University graduate student. Khalil 1:28:31.160 --> 1:28:35.519 led activities aligned to hamas a designated terrorist organization ICE 1:28:35.560 --> 1:28:37.599 in the Department of State are committed to enforcing President 1:28:37.600 --> 1:28:43.040 Trump's executive orders and protecting US national security unquote. And 1:28:43.080 --> 1:28:45.920 there's now been a flurry of posts from both the 1:28:45.960 --> 1:28:49.360 White House account and DTS accounts basically posting like a 1:28:49.400 --> 1:28:53.720 picture of this person saying that he's aligned with hamas 1:28:54.240 --> 1:28:58.240 in celebration, almost like styled after a wanted poster, but 1:28:58.280 --> 1:29:01.200 instead of just reads like arrested. And that is like 1:29:01.280 --> 1:29:03.479 the that's the rhetoric that like they're using right now 1:29:03.520 --> 1:29:07.479 on their official accounts, something that like James I think noted, 1:29:07.520 --> 1:29:11.720 it's it's important to like think about if ICE was 1:29:11.760 --> 1:29:14.240 just freestyling this action or if there was a directive 1:29:14.320 --> 1:29:17.840 beforehand to go after green cards specifically, right, And it 1:29:17.840 --> 1:29:20.320 seems like at least for the people like doing the raid, 1:29:20.400 --> 1:29:23.439 they did not care nor did they like, no, they 1:29:23.439 --> 1:29:26.080 weren't informed. They just were told to go after this 1:29:26.120 --> 1:29:30.120 person from someone higher up, right, and that that very 1:29:30.120 --> 1:29:32.639 well could be Rubio. I mean a lot of DHS 1:29:32.760 --> 1:29:35.519 is being ran by Steven Miller right now. A lot 1:29:35.520 --> 1:29:37.280 of this feels very Miller esque. 1:29:37.520 --> 1:29:41.120 Yeah, we got an update as of the time of recording. 1:29:41.160 --> 1:29:44.360 I've just discovered that Mahud Khalil's lawyers filed the lawsuit 1:29:44.400 --> 1:29:47.840 challenging gives attention and a judge in New York City, 1:29:48.040 --> 1:29:51.960 federal judge obviously or that Khalil shouldn't be deported while 1:29:52.479 --> 1:29:54.200 that court then considered his case. 1:29:54.360 --> 1:29:57.759 Yes, I was going to bring that up so that also, like. 1:29:57.920 --> 1:29:59.639 His case will we considered in New York City, which 1:29:59.680 --> 1:30:01.519 is for me, good for him, as opposed to a 1:30:01.640 --> 1:30:03.719 more conservative jurisdiction elsewhere. 1:30:03.800 --> 1:30:07.720 Right, totally like this happening in Texas, Like in all 1:30:07.720 --> 1:30:09.599 of those districts where Elon Musk is trying to set 1:30:09.680 --> 1:30:12.200 up his corporations, because there's friendly judges, this would be 1:30:12.200 --> 1:30:13.479 handled quite differently, right. 1:30:13.880 --> 1:30:16.200 Yeah, this is something migrants I speak to are at 1:30:16.280 --> 1:30:18.320 least aware of sometimes that they don't want to enter 1:30:18.360 --> 1:30:20.720 into Texas because the Fifth Circuit is seen as less 1:30:20.720 --> 1:30:22.680 favorable to them, and they'd say the ninth circuit where 1:30:22.680 --> 1:30:26.040 they would be avanted in California. I'm sort of surprised 1:30:26.040 --> 1:30:28.799 if it is a Miller joint that it isn't someone 1:30:29.040 --> 1:30:31.240 like U T. Austin or somewhere like that. 1:30:31.560 --> 1:30:35.280 Now they're going directly after this individual in part because 1:30:35.560 --> 1:30:39.480 he's somebody that a lot of folks who might otherwise 1:30:39.560 --> 1:30:42.680 be like up in arms about a move like this, 1:30:43.040 --> 1:30:45.320 would say because of some of his connections and some 1:30:45.360 --> 1:30:46.960 of the things he said in the past. Well he's 1:30:47.000 --> 1:30:50.600 you know, supported groups that are really bad. Like I 1:30:50.640 --> 1:30:53.600 think they're really trying to find the first case is 1:30:53.600 --> 1:30:55.439 they want someone that they can have a lot of 1:30:55.479 --> 1:30:58.040 like liberals off from being too scared to support because 1:30:58.040 --> 1:31:01.240 he said some things that like they don't want to 1:31:01.560 --> 1:31:03.720 have attached to them, Like that's that's how they're and 1:31:03.760 --> 1:31:06.160 they're going to keep pushing that further and further each time. 1:31:06.200 --> 1:31:09.360 You find some folks who you can scare off a 1:31:09.400 --> 1:31:11.360 lot of maybe what you might call like their otherwise 1:31:11.439 --> 1:31:13.960 natural support base because you can point out this thing 1:31:14.040 --> 1:31:15.840 or that thing they did that was that was not 1:31:15.960 --> 1:31:19.519 great acou types like when I'm not I'm not insulting 1:31:19.640 --> 1:31:21.000 or is trying to say bad things about this guy, 1:31:21.040 --> 1:31:23.400 I'm just saying, like that's that's the tactic here, right, 1:31:23.600 --> 1:31:25.280 just to try to paint this guy is like, well 1:31:25.320 --> 1:31:27.800 this guy did this bow you do really want to 1:31:27.840 --> 1:31:29.680 support that, which is why you have to take an 1:31:29.720 --> 1:31:31.920 incredibly firm stance that no, the government doesn't get to 1:31:31.920 --> 1:31:33.880 do this, The State department doesn't get to do this. 1:31:34.000 --> 1:31:36.559 Yeah, regardless of of any things that this person may. 1:31:36.479 --> 1:31:39.200 Have said, the First Amendment is for everyone. I don't 1:31:39.240 --> 1:31:42.519 care what he said, you know, so, Like, it's also 1:31:42.560 --> 1:31:46.000 worth noting that Colombia, specifically the Intercept is reported on 1:31:46.040 --> 1:31:49.799 this that there is a WhatsApp group called Columbia Alumnife Israel, 1:31:50.560 --> 1:31:56.120 and they have been explicitly trying to identify the students 1:31:56.560 --> 1:31:59.560 and to call for like prosecution and I guess persecution 1:31:59.640 --> 1:32:03.840 if students like And I think the Columbia encampment was 1:32:03.880 --> 1:32:06.840 particularly objectionable to a lot of people, and that was 1:32:06.920 --> 1:32:08.360 kind of the one that got a lot of the 1:32:08.439 --> 1:32:11.720 national focus in the reporting, right, So it's understandable that 1:32:11.720 --> 1:32:12.760 that's where they went for this. 1:32:13.400 --> 1:32:16.559 Yeah, it's it's high visibility. And I think it's also 1:32:17.240 --> 1:32:20.840 very likely that they're just looking to have a test 1:32:20.920 --> 1:32:23.800 case for this to see if they can create legal 1:32:23.800 --> 1:32:27.799 precedent for removing people's green cards for you know, anti 1:32:27.800 --> 1:32:31.519 genocide protests, right, And the specific details of that will 1:32:31.560 --> 1:32:34.160 become more and more or less important based on like 1:32:34.240 --> 1:32:36.960 the results of the case, as long as they can 1:32:37.040 --> 1:32:40.240 create that precedent, right, and specifically like the president for 1:32:40.600 --> 1:32:43.760 revoking a green card, something that's pretty substantial. Yeah, they 1:32:43.800 --> 1:32:45.800 want something that's like, you know, in their mind, like 1:32:45.840 --> 1:32:48.840 the most favorable towards their outcome. So I mean that's 1:32:48.880 --> 1:32:51.240 part of what they're trying to do with this specific case, 1:32:51.800 --> 1:32:53.800 and it is it is very much in line with 1:32:53.800 --> 1:32:56.840 with Trump's campaign rhetoric and versions of what Trump has 1:32:56.880 --> 1:33:00.599 said before. And now you're seeing someone like Rubio, someone 1:33:00.640 --> 1:33:03.600 who's you know a little bit more policy minded, taking 1:33:03.720 --> 1:33:05.160 steps towards this outcome. 1:33:05.800 --> 1:33:08.640 Yeah, which I think is like the other thing they 1:33:08.640 --> 1:33:11.240 didn't get to do, I guess is that they weren't 1:33:11.280 --> 1:33:13.960 able to like deport the guy at hyper speed, which 1:33:14.000 --> 1:33:16.439 they have been doing with some people. Yeah, he was 1:33:16.439 --> 1:33:18.800 detained in New York and then moved to Louisiana, and 1:33:18.840 --> 1:33:22.080 people were very upset about this, rightly, because it's removing 1:33:22.160 --> 1:33:24.360 him from easy access to his lawyer and to his 1:33:24.360 --> 1:33:26.639 family and to his eight month pregnant wife. Right, that's 1:33:26.680 --> 1:33:29.080 all things that should have be done. It's also something 1:33:29.120 --> 1:33:32.719 that a Biden administration did routinely. We have other episodes 1:33:32.720 --> 1:33:35.400 on this actually, especially in San Diego, where we have 1:33:35.520 --> 1:33:38.720 some funding that allows people who are detained access to 1:33:38.800 --> 1:33:42.759 legal assistance. It has been very common for those migrants 1:33:42.800 --> 1:33:45.120 to be then moved to Texas. I've seen it with 1:33:45.240 --> 1:33:47.600 migrants I've met at the border and I've looked for 1:33:47.600 --> 1:33:51.120 them in the ICE Immigrant Detention Locator and They've been 1:33:51.160 --> 1:33:54.040 moved to Texas. It's not uncommon at all. So it's 1:33:54.080 --> 1:33:55.759 bad that it happened. It was bad that it happened 1:33:55.800 --> 1:33:57.880 under Biden. It's still bad that it's happening now. We 1:33:57.920 --> 1:34:00.479 should have let it happen. Then we should support it 1:34:00.479 --> 1:34:01.360 when it happens now. 1:34:01.640 --> 1:34:03.200 And I think before we go and break again, I 1:34:03.200 --> 1:34:05.599 do want to kind of close this section by by 1:34:05.680 --> 1:34:09.559 talking about how like they don't necessarily need an executive 1:34:09.640 --> 1:34:12.880 order specifically allowing Trump to do this like like or 1:34:12.960 --> 1:34:14.920 like Trump doesn't need to make an executive order like 1:34:14.960 --> 1:34:20.120 explicitly for this based on like immigration deportation law, like 1:34:20.400 --> 1:34:23.440 there will be an argument made in like in court 1:34:23.520 --> 1:34:26.679 that that they they have justification for this action already. 1:34:27.040 --> 1:34:29.040 This is something that I've already been through when I 1:34:29.040 --> 1:34:32.000 immigrated to the country and like did like my citizenship interview, right, 1:34:32.080 --> 1:34:35.479 like if you if you have discussed in the past, 1:34:35.560 --> 1:34:38.720 you know, something that can be construed as support for 1:34:38.760 --> 1:34:42.160 a terrorist organization, that does disqualify you from US citizenship. 1:34:42.200 --> 1:34:44.560 And right, so there's gonna be a lot of arguments 1:34:45.360 --> 1:34:49.320 like around like specifically these terrorism statutes that will make 1:34:49.360 --> 1:34:52.840 someone like this a subject for removal. Yeah, and like 1:34:53.040 --> 1:34:55.000 that that's gonna be like the angle in which they 1:34:55.439 --> 1:34:57.559 they go about this, And I think that's like worth 1:34:57.640 --> 1:34:58.320 keeping in mind. 1:34:58.600 --> 1:35:00.439 I also think it's worth because I I don't want 1:35:00.439 --> 1:35:02.160 to make this because a lot of people online have 1:35:02.280 --> 1:35:05.839 this shouldn't be our immediate primary concern. Our immediately primary 1:35:05.880 --> 1:35:08.880 concern should be mood and the other people like him 1:35:08.920 --> 1:35:11.760 who are in situations like him be targeted. But I 1:35:11.760 --> 1:35:14.200 don't think it's unreasonable to say that, like if they 1:35:14.200 --> 1:35:16.000 get away with this, at some point that we'll start 1:35:16.000 --> 1:35:19.080 saying like look to support palast the government describes like 1:35:19.520 --> 1:35:21.719 or any support for any group that the government considers 1:35:21.720 --> 1:35:23.599 a terrorist. It doesn't matter if you were born here 1:35:23.760 --> 1:35:26.719 as a citizen. You know, we can start like that 1:35:26.720 --> 1:35:29.439 that is a potential in state of this, which is 1:35:29.760 --> 1:35:33.360 again not should not be on your front burner. It 1:35:33.400 --> 1:35:35.800 should be the people being targeted right now. But also 1:35:35.880 --> 1:35:38.439 an awareness of like this is part of why you 1:35:38.560 --> 1:35:40.519 have to draw such a hard line. Like if if 1:35:40.520 --> 1:35:43.400 the situation was reversed and this where a democratic administration 1:35:43.439 --> 1:35:45.960 coming after an anti vaccine student activist who is a 1:35:46.000 --> 1:35:48.720 permanent legal resident, it would be wrong for them to 1:35:48.800 --> 1:35:52.240 disappear them, right, Like that has to be like where 1:35:52.240 --> 1:35:53.120 the line is drawn. 1:35:53.240 --> 1:35:56.120 Yeah, yeah, the state should not have this ability, Like 1:35:56.160 --> 1:35:58.120 we should not let them get away with this, and 1:35:58.160 --> 1:36:01.960 we should put as much support and legal support into 1:36:02.280 --> 1:36:05.040 preventing this from happening. I really can't say which way 1:36:05.080 --> 1:36:08.400 this will go, Like immigration law is the one of 1:36:08.400 --> 1:36:10.880 the most like headache conducing things I've ever had to 1:36:10.920 --> 1:36:12.960 go through in my entire life. 1:36:13.439 --> 1:36:15.479 Ah, Like he will be spending a lot of money 1:36:15.520 --> 1:36:16.679 on immigration lawyers now. 1:36:17.479 --> 1:36:20.320 Also be really clear, I'm not equateing support for Palestine 1:36:20.360 --> 1:36:22.080 to being anti vax I'm just saying, like, if you know, 1:36:22.120 --> 1:36:24.280 if this was like a shitty guy, right, it would 1:36:24.280 --> 1:36:24.840 still be wrong. 1:36:24.960 --> 1:36:26.920 People, if it's something that we like to like laugh 1:36:26.960 --> 1:36:31.880 at for getting measles in Texas, disappearing people bad if 1:36:31.880 --> 1:36:34.760 you thought Russia was doing anti fascism in Ukraine, it 1:36:34.800 --> 1:36:37.720 would still be important, right, right, you know, to to 1:36:37.840 --> 1:36:41.200 do this, And should we take a break and come 1:36:41.240 --> 1:36:42.400 back and discuss some. 1:36:42.400 --> 1:36:56.439 More, Yes, yes, I wanted to give a little bit 1:36:56.439 --> 1:36:59.040 of background here some other stuff that I've been looking into. 1:36:59.320 --> 1:37:02.240 So in the fifth of February, Attorney General Pam Bondai 1:37:02.320 --> 1:37:05.640 issued a series of memos. One of these was establishing 1:37:05.640 --> 1:37:08.080 a quote October seventh task for so I'm going to 1:37:08.160 --> 1:37:11.479 quote from it here to prioritize seeking justice for victims 1:37:11.479 --> 1:37:14.400 of October seventh, twenty twenty three terrorist attack in Israel, 1:37:15.120 --> 1:37:18.520 addressing the ongoing threat post by her Mass and its affiliates, 1:37:18.560 --> 1:37:21.960 and combating anti Semitic acts of terrorism and civil rights 1:37:22.040 --> 1:37:25.800 violations in the homeland. It then lifts several action items 1:37:25.840 --> 1:37:29.600 for the FBI. Right among them is investigating and prosecuting 1:37:29.680 --> 1:37:33.519 acts of terrorism, anti Semitic civil rights violations, and other 1:37:33.600 --> 1:37:36.599 federal crimes committed by her Mass supporters in the United States, 1:37:36.760 --> 1:37:41.400 including on college campuses. The final point is quote supporting 1:37:41.400 --> 1:37:44.240 efforts by the Israeli government Department of Defense and Department 1:37:44.280 --> 1:37:47.559 of Treasury to pursue non criminal responses to the October 1:37:47.600 --> 1:37:51.120 seventh attack and other terrorist activities by her mass. There's 1:37:51.160 --> 1:37:54.479 a couple of things that are can Obviously, the non 1:37:54.560 --> 1:37:58.200 criminal responses could include deportation, right like the person is 1:37:58.240 --> 1:37:59.960 not being accused of a crime, but none less have 1:38:00.120 --> 1:38:03.479 their visa evoked. Also that the idea of cooperating with 1:38:03.520 --> 1:38:07.400 a foreign government, a government which is currently committing a genocide, 1:38:07.560 --> 1:38:12.840 potentially against US citizens or US residence, is quite concerning. 1:38:13.320 --> 1:38:16.519 It's especially concerning when we talk about that Trump executive 1:38:16.640 --> 1:38:19.360 order that we've already discussed. Right. One of the parts 1:38:19.360 --> 1:38:21.920 of that Trump executive order that I noticed that I 1:38:21.960 --> 1:38:25.680 haven't seen any reporting on was the quote infantry and 1:38:25.760 --> 1:38:29.759 analysis of all the Title six complaints sort administrative actions 1:38:29.800 --> 1:38:33.960 including in K through twelve education related to anti Semitism 1:38:34.439 --> 1:38:38.360 pending or resolved after October seventh, twenty twenty three. 1:38:38.840 --> 1:38:40.599 Can you explain what Title six is? 1:38:41.080 --> 1:38:44.400 Yeah, I can in Garrison, and I would love to so. 1:38:44.720 --> 1:38:46.360 Title six is part of the Civil Rights Act of 1:38:46.400 --> 1:38:49.679 nineteen sixty four. Right, it prohibits discrimination based on race, color, 1:38:49.760 --> 1:38:56.720 or national origin. Yes, it applies to federally funded programs, activities, 1:38:56.960 --> 1:39:00.639 or institutions which receive federal funding. Right, which were almost 1:39:00.680 --> 1:39:03.800 every institution of education in this country, apart from some 1:39:04.040 --> 1:39:06.040 religious private schools. I guess maybe they still get some 1:39:06.080 --> 1:39:09.679 federal funding. There have been a number of Title six 1:39:09.720 --> 1:39:13.519 cases filed for anti Semitic discrimination and anti Palastinio or 1:39:13.520 --> 1:39:16.679 anti Arab or Islamophobic discrimination since October seventh to twenty 1:39:16.720 --> 1:39:20.719 twenty three. The ones filed for Islamophobic discrimination don't seem 1:39:20.760 --> 1:39:23.680 to be covered by this, but the other ones do. 1:39:24.160 --> 1:39:28.200 The Biden administration kind of rushed to finish up and 1:39:28.240 --> 1:39:30.400 resolve some of these in the last few weeks of 1:39:30.439 --> 1:39:35.760 his tenure, and normally the results were pretty ineffectual. It 1:39:35.800 --> 1:39:39.080 was like some more trainings, the review of policies. Anyone 1:39:39.120 --> 1:39:41.920 who's who's been an educator at one of these institutions 1:39:41.920 --> 1:39:44.040 will have already been very familiar with the sort of 1:39:44.560 --> 1:39:47.680 anti discrimination training video that you have to watch, and 1:39:47.720 --> 1:39:49.360 they were suggesting that you watch more of those videos. 1:39:49.400 --> 1:39:51.479 I'm not really convinced that that is the way we 1:39:51.520 --> 1:39:55.040 deal with hatred, but that's why they recommended. The Emory one. 1:39:55.080 --> 1:39:57.920 I thought was interesting because they told Emory that it 1:39:57.960 --> 1:40:01.120 had to commit to a quote equitable hand of protests 1:40:01.240 --> 1:40:04.800 after its campus police were so violent towards anti genocide protesters. 1:40:05.560 --> 1:40:07.439 A lot of the other cases are still pending, but 1:40:07.479 --> 1:40:09.519 it seems like the Trump administration is going to go 1:40:09.560 --> 1:40:12.040 back and review all of them anyway. It does seem 1:40:12.160 --> 1:40:15.559 like whether it's spread organically or whether it's some kind 1:40:15.600 --> 1:40:18.240 of campaign to file Title six complaints. A lot of 1:40:18.240 --> 1:40:23.559 Title six complaints were filed after October seventh, and during 1:40:23.640 --> 1:40:26.200 this time when we saw like campus protests, when we 1:40:26.200 --> 1:40:29.040 saw support by some faculty for those campus protests, right, 1:40:29.080 --> 1:40:32.760 and we saw some faculty who may or may not 1:40:32.760 --> 1:40:34.600 have supported the protest but felt very strongly about the 1:40:34.680 --> 1:40:36.719 right of students to have freedom of speech on campus. 1:40:36.920 --> 1:40:39.120 And I'm sure they would have been kind of wrapped 1:40:39.200 --> 1:40:42.240 up in this big drag net too. That this potentially 1:40:42.880 --> 1:40:46.080 raises the specter of like at least career threatening. And again, 1:40:46.160 --> 1:40:49.720 lots of faculty are not US citizens, right. They might 1:40:49.720 --> 1:40:52.120 be permanent residents, they might be married to citizens, they 1:40:52.200 --> 1:40:54.439 might be here on a visa. There are a number 1:40:54.520 --> 1:40:57.559 of different immigration statuses that they could have that are 1:40:57.600 --> 1:41:00.799 not US citizen that they could pretendally lose. 1:41:01.479 --> 1:41:04.439 So what is Trump trying to do about these cases 1:41:04.479 --> 1:41:07.719 which could be pending or have already been resolved. 1:41:08.040 --> 1:41:11.280 Yeah, well, what they said is they want to familiarize 1:41:11.280 --> 1:41:14.960 institutions with the grounds for inadmissibility, so that that's not 1:41:15.000 --> 1:41:18.000 allowing someone to enter the United States. Right, and read 1:41:18.000 --> 1:41:19.640 out the section of the United States Code that a 1:41:19.680 --> 1:41:22.479 section of the United States Code quote so that such 1:41:22.520 --> 1:41:26.400 institutions may monitor for and report activities by alien students 1:41:26.400 --> 1:41:29.760 and staff relevant to those grounds, and for ensuring that 1:41:29.840 --> 1:41:33.600 such report about aliens lead, as appropriate and consistent with 1:41:33.640 --> 1:41:39.200 applicable law, to investigations and comma, if warranted, comma actions 1:41:39.200 --> 1:41:42.640 to remove such aliens. So it's in there, right, This 1:41:42.800 --> 1:41:46.599 is in Trump's late January executive order. Yeah, this is 1:41:46.680 --> 1:41:50.320 the legal argument that they're making there, and they're asking 1:41:50.439 --> 1:41:52.840 universities to do some of that legwork for them. It 1:41:52.920 --> 1:41:56.760 seems I imagine that this is the same section of 1:41:56.760 --> 1:41:59.960 the United States Code that we'll see us with reference to, 1:42:00.320 --> 1:42:04.599 but it refers to like excludable or inadmissible aliens, which 1:42:04.640 --> 1:42:07.120 is people coming into the country. But I guess they 1:42:07.160 --> 1:42:10.520 could make an argument that like he disguised his inadmissible 1:42:10.600 --> 1:42:12.800 status or became inadmissible. 1:42:12.920 --> 1:42:15.920 Sure, I mean, there's these two sections, right, There's this 1:42:15.960 --> 1:42:18.559 one that revolves around who can be like admitted, who 1:42:18.600 --> 1:42:21.000 can be accepted. There's that one section which is a 1:42:21.240 --> 1:42:25.200 section one two two seven sub section A four a 1:42:25.439 --> 1:42:29.200 dash C, which is the section specifically on deportation as 1:42:29.240 --> 1:42:33.400 relating to like supporting quote unquote terrorist activities. So I 1:42:33.479 --> 1:42:35.960 think they will try to use these both like in conjunction. 1:42:36.920 --> 1:42:38.800 And I think it's also important to not doubt here 1:42:39.120 --> 1:42:41.840 the use of the word like aliens as opposed to 1:42:42.240 --> 1:42:45.040 the word that like Rubio was using previously, which is 1:42:45.080 --> 1:42:49.439 like visitors, right, Like visitors, I would say, probably applies 1:42:49.520 --> 1:42:53.600 more to like student visa holders, yeah, non residents versus aliens. 1:42:53.920 --> 1:42:57.840 Aliens can be anyone, right, like aliens, you can be 1:42:57.920 --> 1:43:00.400 visa holders, can be Green card holders, right. And so 1:43:00.439 --> 1:43:03.040 at least in like the official wording here, these are 1:43:03.040 --> 1:43:05.280 the word I think aliens is important as opposed to 1:43:05.760 --> 1:43:10.160 like Rubio's like you know posts on x dot com. Yeah, 1:43:10.200 --> 1:43:13.320 which now become official policy because we're in the hell world. 1:43:14.280 --> 1:43:14.599 Yep. 1:43:15.200 --> 1:43:17.720 Yeah, that refers to like just like you know, visitors 1:43:17.800 --> 1:43:18.479 to this country. 1:43:18.560 --> 1:43:18.800 Yeah. 1:43:18.920 --> 1:43:20.920 The right has used aliens for a long time, right, 1:43:20.920 --> 1:43:22.519 because it differentiates them from people. 1:43:22.600 --> 1:43:25.160 Yeah, it's like it's very basic like dehumanization like this. 1:43:25.360 --> 1:43:28.000 Yeah, right, in this case, it's I think it's important. 1:43:28.000 --> 1:43:30.559 It's pivotal, so like we have a sense of what 1:43:30.600 --> 1:43:34.720 will happen there. And maybe I could just finish up 1:43:34.720 --> 1:43:38.040 by saying, if you are faculty or a student, if 1:43:38.080 --> 1:43:42.280 you're encountering this, you can reach out to us using 1:43:42.439 --> 1:43:44.920 our encrypted email. So if you'd like to reach out 1:43:44.960 --> 1:43:47.160 to us, it's cool zone tips at proton dot me. 1:43:47.360 --> 1:43:50.000 It's only encrypted if it's encrypted from the sender as 1:43:50.000 --> 1:43:51.960 well as a recipient, so that would mean using a 1:43:52.000 --> 1:43:55.599 proton or other encrypted email to reach out rather than 1:43:55.680 --> 1:43:58.439 using an unencrypted email. If you'd like to reach out again, 1:43:58.520 --> 1:44:01.719 cool zone tips at proton me. Obviously, this is something 1:44:01.760 --> 1:44:04.160 we're going to continue taking an interest in, and obviously 1:44:04.160 --> 1:44:07.960 it's something that we can't report the entirety of now 1:44:08.000 --> 1:44:09.559 because we're still waiting on the court case, but we 1:44:09.600 --> 1:44:12.080 are very interested in learning more about it, so please 1:44:12.080 --> 1:44:13.000 feel free to reach out. 1:44:13.080 --> 1:44:15.120 Yeah, absolutely, Yeah. 1:44:15.120 --> 1:44:18.680 Well, and it's something that Trump is also saying they 1:44:18.680 --> 1:44:22.639 will be taking a continued interest in. He is promising 1:44:22.640 --> 1:44:25.920 that this is the first arrest of quote unquote many 1:44:26.280 --> 1:44:29.880 to come, so as they could do to focus on 1:44:29.920 --> 1:44:32.080 this we will as well. James, did you have anything 1:44:32.080 --> 1:44:34.040 else you wanted to say, like re lawyers. 1:44:34.680 --> 1:44:38.640 Yes, So, as I mentioned before, right, people under by 1:44:38.680 --> 1:44:40.680 administration had been moved away from their lawyers. This is 1:44:40.800 --> 1:44:43.760 very common. It seems that now people are being moved 1:44:43.760 --> 1:44:48.760 away from their lawyers and having teleconference request denied. I 1:44:48.840 --> 1:44:51.720 let's say, Garrison, you're a lawyer and you have a 1:44:51.760 --> 1:44:53.880 client detained to San Diego. They moved to Texas, and 1:44:53.920 --> 1:44:56.200 now you can't tele conference in for a ten minute hearing, 1:44:56.800 --> 1:44:59.080 so you would have to fly right for that ten 1:44:59.120 --> 1:45:01.840 minute heref which is going to make it impossible both 1:45:01.840 --> 1:45:05.240 in time down to financial terms. What I'm understanding. I'm 1:45:05.280 --> 1:45:07.840 still digging into this a little bit more, but that's 1:45:07.880 --> 1:45:10.240 what I'm hearing. So this is going to be an 1:45:10.280 --> 1:45:12.160 ongoing thing. I guess if you're an immigration lawyer in 1:45:12.160 --> 1:45:14.160 one of the places people are being sent to, like Texas, 1:45:14.200 --> 1:45:16.040 you can help. But you probably already know that, and 1:45:16.040 --> 1:45:18.120 you're probably already doing that, and you're probably already very 1:45:18.200 --> 1:45:21.200 very overworked. Do you work asylum cases? So yeah, I 1:45:21.200 --> 1:45:24.640 think now is the time for groups like the ACLU 1:45:24.720 --> 1:45:27.760 to step up or shut up, and we'll see well. 1:45:27.640 --> 1:45:31.360 In the ACOU has come out against Mamod's arrest. Okay, good. 1:45:31.600 --> 1:45:35.559 The ADL obviously totally for it. Shocked at the ADL, 1:45:35.680 --> 1:45:38.600 an organization formed to help avoid another Holocaust, does not 1:45:38.680 --> 1:45:42.840 see any potential danger in a state redefining citizenship in 1:45:42.920 --> 1:45:46.080 order to disappear as political enemies. So we love the 1:45:46.120 --> 1:45:49.200 ADL here, folks. But the ACLU did. I mean, we'll 1:45:49.240 --> 1:45:51.680 see if they do anything, but they did, like make 1:45:51.680 --> 1:45:52.200 a statement. 1:45:52.479 --> 1:45:54.760 Yeah, they've been very good. I should say, the ACLU 1:45:54.840 --> 1:45:57.280 has been pursuing a lot of litigation. It's Trump administration. 1:45:57.640 --> 1:45:59.640 This is the sort of thing they're pretty consistently. 1:46:00.439 --> 1:46:03.400 Yes, especially at a national level, they've been very good 1:46:03.400 --> 1:46:07.320 at this. And so yeah, you know, shout out to them. 1:46:07.360 --> 1:46:08.840 I guess, I don't know. We don't need to shout 1:46:08.880 --> 1:46:11.400 it out. It's their job. Yeah, they get millions of dollars, 1:46:11.920 --> 1:46:13.519 Like this is literally why why you're there? 1:46:13.600 --> 1:46:16.400 Do a good job or else you'd better. 1:46:16.160 --> 1:46:20.479 Do something else too, like yeah, yeah, you'd better show up. 1:46:20.520 --> 1:46:22.840 Yeah, don't donate to the ad L. I guess if 1:46:22.880 --> 1:46:25.160 you were thinking of doing that after listening to. 1:46:25.080 --> 1:46:50.760 This podcast, Oh my god, you guys, it could happen here, 1:46:51.840 --> 1:46:56.640 meaning our podcast, it could, it is, It's happened. 1:46:57.280 --> 1:47:00.960 Robert, shouldn't you rename the podcast it is happening here? 1:47:01.200 --> 1:47:01.400 Yeah? 1:47:01.479 --> 1:47:03.599 Uh huh, that's that's a fun joke that I only 1:47:03.640 --> 1:47:09.120 hear forty seven times a day. And the whole point 1:47:09.160 --> 1:47:12.360 of the podcast was, well, initially I was a crazy 1:47:12.400 --> 1:47:15.240 person saying a bunch of stuff would happen, and now 1:47:15.280 --> 1:47:19.559 it's a bunch of that stuff happened, and even more 1:47:19.560 --> 1:47:22.840 of it looks very likely. And so now I just 1:47:22.880 --> 1:47:24.080 feel bad all the time. 1:47:24.600 --> 1:47:26.640 It's going to be called I fucking called it. I 1:47:26.680 --> 1:47:29.080 fucking told you, bro, I said this was going to happen. 1:47:29.560 --> 1:47:32.639 Why don't you redad the podcast? I just feel bad 1:47:32.640 --> 1:47:33.280 all the time? 1:47:33.479 --> 1:47:35.800 Yeah, why don't you rename the podcast? Robert should have 1:47:35.800 --> 1:47:39.720 bought more stock and ammunition companies than he did. And 1:47:39.880 --> 1:47:43.320 DGI jeez, should I have bought stock and DGI? 1:47:43.720 --> 1:47:48.040 Yeah, I'm gonna buy her a little DGI drone. 1:47:48.680 --> 1:47:50.280 Yeah, there we go. A lot of people are going 1:47:50.320 --> 1:47:53.519 to be buying little DGI drones here very soon, James. 1:47:55.360 --> 1:47:56.960 I should point out that I'm buying one. It's not 1:47:57.000 --> 1:47:58.240 capable of carrying a payload. 1:47:58.680 --> 1:48:01.439 It's definitely a s for investments to pull out your 1:48:01.479 --> 1:48:04.880 furrow one k. Now, when the market's crashing, use that 1:48:04.960 --> 1:48:08.320 money by drones. Those drones will be worth a lot 1:48:08.360 --> 1:48:09.400 more in five years. 1:48:10.120 --> 1:48:12.320 Or what is that? 1:48:12.439 --> 1:48:12.720 That is? 1:48:12.960 --> 1:48:15.880 That is a sound of a sound investment, a box 1:48:15.920 --> 1:48:16.560 of bullets. 1:48:17.040 --> 1:48:18.800 It's like how boomers used to like invest in like 1:48:18.880 --> 1:48:22.920 silver or gold as like a stable current. No, we're 1:48:22.960 --> 1:48:27.400 investing in DGI, like physical DG hydrones. 1:48:28.240 --> 1:48:31.200 We are investing in drones and boxes of gunpowder. 1:48:31.720 --> 1:48:33.920 Yeah, you gotta get it in a bottle. Rubbed it 1:48:33.920 --> 1:48:36.479 in a box. It can get light struck or get moist. 1:48:36.479 --> 1:48:39.040 You want to get it in a special black black bottle. 1:48:39.080 --> 1:48:41.920 James, I keep all of my gunpowder. And uh, you 1:48:41.960 --> 1:48:44.719 know how like people used to take cocaine by wrapping 1:48:44.720 --> 1:48:46.280 it in toilet paper and swallowing it. 1:48:46.600 --> 1:48:46.680 No? 1:48:47.040 --> 1:48:49.960 Sure, okay, Well did you say somebody. 1:48:51.960 --> 1:48:56.840 Speaking of toilet paper? Nate Silver has a newsletter and 1:48:56.960 --> 1:48:59.720 it would be useful as toilet paper more so than 1:48:59.760 --> 1:49:01.080 it is as a newsletter. 1:49:01.200 --> 1:49:03.840 Sorry, I just got like PTSD flashbacks from twenty twenty 1:49:03.880 --> 1:49:05.519 four whend you said that it's okay. 1:49:05.720 --> 1:49:11.400 Normally my rule of thumb is every election, usually starting 1:49:11.439 --> 1:49:16.240 in like December, the year before election year, I begrudgingly 1:49:16.600 --> 1:49:19.880 fight down a series of panic attacks, vomit three or 1:49:19.880 --> 1:49:22.160 four times in a bucket, and then head over to 1:49:22.240 --> 1:49:24.960 Nate Silver's blog to see what he's saying about the polls. 1:49:25.360 --> 1:49:27.679 And I do this. I hate that I keep having 1:49:27.960 --> 1:49:30.760 I have regularly on election the years people were like but. 1:49:30.720 --> 1:49:31.400 He was always wrong. 1:49:31.439 --> 1:49:34.799 It's like, no, he's reasonably good on polls. He's usually 1:49:34.840 --> 1:49:37.920 if you read what he's saying about presidential polls, the 1:49:38.000 --> 1:49:41.400 reality bears out pretty close to that. So I read 1:49:41.479 --> 1:49:44.920 him during elections and I hate it because he's never 1:49:44.960 --> 1:49:47.640 been right about anything else. But he's he's a gambler. 1:49:48.600 --> 1:49:52.479 He's a degenerate, filthy gambler. And so when we're talking 1:49:52.520 --> 1:49:56.719 about degenerate, filthy gambler stuff, and by god, election polls 1:49:56.760 --> 1:50:00.679 are the most degenerate type of gambling that exists worth reading. 1:50:01.040 --> 1:50:03.920 And then after the election, no matter how well or 1:50:04.160 --> 1:50:07.240 badly it goes, I ignore him again for four years. 1:50:07.240 --> 1:50:09.479 And I didn't get to do that this year because 1:50:09.520 --> 1:50:12.800 on February twenty fifth, twenty twenty five, Nate wrote a 1:50:12.840 --> 1:50:16.680 column called Elon Musk and spiky intelligence. 1:50:17.040 --> 1:50:19.320 Spiky intelligence. Am I hearing that right? 1:50:19.920 --> 1:50:23.640 Spiky intelligence? Yes? And it very helpfully starts with a 1:50:23.720 --> 1:50:27.240 drawing that I'm sure he used some AI, like he 1:50:27.600 --> 1:50:30.519 must have used some AI like video software to do that, 1:50:30.720 --> 1:50:34.080 just like shows you a kind of spiky star looking 1:50:34.160 --> 1:50:37.519 thing and then like a blob with rounded edges. I 1:50:37.560 --> 1:50:41.080 can't begin to imagine why Nate Silver thought that, like 1:50:41.280 --> 1:50:42.720 we needed this illustrated. 1:50:42.840 --> 1:50:43.559 I have to see this. 1:50:43.640 --> 1:50:45.479 Yeah, yeah, I would like it to be shared. 1:50:45.680 --> 1:50:48.680 Look at this? Why did you, like, oh promise of 1:50:48.720 --> 1:50:53.560 AI we couldn't yes, wow, yeah yeah, it just it 1:50:53.560 --> 1:50:56.679 looks like maybe an amoeba if you looks like an amoeba, 1:50:56.800 --> 1:50:58.679 and then like a poorly drawn star. 1:50:58.880 --> 1:51:01.960 Is it's to keep this is? This is an actual thing. 1:51:02.160 --> 1:51:04.000 This sifts you wait, this is a thing. 1:51:04.320 --> 1:51:06.519 This is This is Boba and Kiki with a weird 1:51:06.560 --> 1:51:09.320 like digital fuzz over the. 1:51:09.280 --> 1:51:10.599 Fucker Boba and Kiki. 1:51:11.040 --> 1:51:12.639 Yeah, okay, Garrison, Yeah. 1:51:12.520 --> 1:51:15.120 It's a it's like a social experiment to like ask 1:51:15.240 --> 1:51:18.639 people what like the emotional correspondence of each of these 1:51:18.640 --> 1:51:19.360 shapes are, like. 1:51:19.320 --> 1:51:23.040 Which was oh, it's like a then sure? 1:51:23.320 --> 1:51:25.720 Like like which one looks which one looks nicer, which 1:51:25.760 --> 1:51:28.479 one looks meaner, you know that sort of thing. I'm 1:51:28.479 --> 1:51:31.280 a Kiki type, like like I I am a Kiky 1:51:31.840 --> 1:51:34.679 in terms in terms of my behavior, I am Garrison. 1:51:34.800 --> 1:51:36.880 Now that you bring up Rorshak, all I can think 1:51:36.880 --> 1:51:38.920 of is how cool it would be if Rorshak from 1:51:38.960 --> 1:51:41.760 The Watchman showed up in Nate Silver's house and did 1:51:41.800 --> 1:51:42.160 his thing. 1:51:43.960 --> 1:51:50.000 Unfortunately, I think Rorshak and Night Silver might get friends. 1:51:50.320 --> 1:51:53.800 Actually yeah, no, no, Nate would. But after them getting 1:51:53.840 --> 1:51:56.040 along for like forty five minutes, Nate would take him 1:51:56.040 --> 1:51:59.040 to an illegal card game, and Rorshak would murder everybody 1:51:59.080 --> 1:52:02.839 in the room because they were gambling without a license. 1:52:05.120 --> 1:52:08.800 So I'm assuming Theate's going to try to argue that 1:52:08.800 --> 1:52:12.599 that Musk's intelligence is akin to the kiki drug here 1:52:12.840 --> 1:52:16.360 as opposed to like the empathetic right there. 1:52:16.360 --> 1:52:18.240 Actually, yes, there is a little bit of that in there. 1:52:18.560 --> 1:52:21.160 He does not mention this Kiki and Boba thing. I 1:52:21.160 --> 1:52:23.639 don't know if that's because I'm supposed to just infer 1:52:23.720 --> 1:52:26.439 it from the image or if he's Okay, we'll get 1:52:26.479 --> 1:52:28.479 your opinion on it is. Is he ripping these people off 1:52:28.840 --> 1:52:30.800 because this doesn't count as enough for him to be 1:52:30.840 --> 1:52:33.639 crediting them if this is the underpinning of his stupid idea, 1:52:33.680 --> 1:52:35.960 which he credits to his stupid book that he came 1:52:36.040 --> 1:52:37.559 up with later. But I'm just going to start reading 1:52:37.560 --> 1:52:40.439 the stupid column. Well hit us with the second paragraph, 1:52:40.479 --> 1:52:43.280 because that fuck Kevin gotten paragraph one JAKA. 1:52:43.560 --> 1:52:45.000 That radicalized me immediately. 1:52:45.000 --> 1:52:47.760 There's been a debate raging on Twitter. Noah Smith can 1:52:47.840 --> 1:52:50.320 run you through the parameters about the intelligence of the 1:52:50.360 --> 1:52:54.680 platform's owner, Elon Musk. My contribution was to suggest and 1:52:54.720 --> 1:52:57.120 then there's a little ie in parentheses because we need 1:52:57.160 --> 1:53:00.400 that Elon is obviously pretty bright, and then the two 1:53:00.400 --> 1:53:04.080 eyes in parentheses. This shouldn't be conflated with moral judgment. 1:53:04.360 --> 1:53:08.360 Highly intelligent people do lots of bad things. Okay, you'd 1:53:08.400 --> 1:53:11.320 think this wouldn't be especially controversial, but since it involves 1:53:11.360 --> 1:53:14.559 Elon and intelligence, well it was. Elon has run founded 1:53:14.640 --> 1:53:18.799 or co founded Tesla, SpaceX, open Ai, neuralink Xai, PayPal, 1:53:18.920 --> 1:53:22.800 and more recently Twitter. He's also managed to steer himself 1:53:22.840 --> 1:53:24.800 into a position where he's now the de facto chief 1:53:24.840 --> 1:53:27.200 of staff to the President of the United States. I 1:53:27.240 --> 1:53:29.759 do not doubt that Elon has gotten lucky in various respects. 1:53:29.800 --> 1:53:32.920 Some of these were long shot bets, and Walter Isaacson's 1:53:32.960 --> 1:53:35.640 biography of must documents he thought he'd be ruined if 1:53:35.680 --> 1:53:38.479 there had been one more failed SpaceX launch. The success 1:53:38.520 --> 1:53:41.439 of some of these enterprises might also be debated. Twitter 1:53:41.520 --> 1:53:43.880 was a candy play for cultural and political influence, but 1:53:43.920 --> 1:53:46.280 it probably And he doesn't bring up in this whole 1:53:46.280 --> 1:53:48.400 thing where he's talking about like all his successful companies, 1:53:48.840 --> 1:53:52.000 not a word about the boring company, not a word 1:53:52.000 --> 1:53:52.880 about hyper loop. 1:53:53.200 --> 1:53:55.599 Right, Well, any of the failed on his. 1:53:55.600 --> 1:53:58.520 Record does seem better if you ignore the two massively 1:53:58.600 --> 1:54:01.640 publicized and invest did absolute failures. 1:54:01.760 --> 1:54:03.880 Yes, well, and last week, I know there was a 1:54:03.880 --> 1:54:06.360 space X lunch. I'm sure it went well. I'm sure 1:54:06.360 --> 1:54:09.840 it didn't fling debris all over lower. 1:54:10.160 --> 1:54:13.960 I'm sure he didn't nearly destroy several commercial aircraft, also 1:54:14.280 --> 1:54:17.880 crediting it like, yeah, I guess technically co founded open ai, 1:54:18.000 --> 1:54:19.800 but not in a way that mattered. He just shot 1:54:19.840 --> 1:54:23.400 down money in there and then get kind of edged out. Sure, Yes, 1:54:24.000 --> 1:54:26.719 and is actively in a conflict with everybody who did 1:54:27.160 --> 1:54:31.080 make open ai as prominent as it is. Again, Natela 1:54:31.120 --> 1:54:33.280 has to leave a lot out in order to start 1:54:33.320 --> 1:54:34.320 making this case. 1:54:34.560 --> 1:54:36.680 But so he's going to argue that, you know, we're 1:54:36.680 --> 1:54:39.520 going to see how how well this co presidency goes. 1:54:39.560 --> 1:54:41.800 But he's probably a pretty smart guy to get all 1:54:41.880 --> 1:54:42.760 of this stuff done. R. 1:54:42.800 --> 1:54:42.960 Yeah. 1:54:42.960 --> 1:54:45.560 And he's also saying, well, like maybe Twitter won't be profitable, 1:54:45.560 --> 1:54:47.720 but we'll see how you know, he could probably profit 1:54:47.800 --> 1:54:49.920 from being the de facto chief of staff. Not a 1:54:49.960 --> 1:54:52.040 word from Nate about like, yeah, but he's just like that, 1:54:52.240 --> 1:54:54.560 just breaking the law. So why are why are we 1:54:54.680 --> 1:54:57.360 Why aren't we including in our canny businessman guys that 1:54:57.440 --> 1:55:00.760 get rich selling like shitloads of heroin for the cartels, 1:55:00.880 --> 1:55:04.680 Because yes, if you are breaking the loss, sometimes that 1:55:04.720 --> 1:55:06.360 goes well for you financially. 1:55:07.040 --> 1:55:09.200 Well, Walter White, they've done some bad things. 1:55:09.240 --> 1:55:12.120 Yeah, but but you can't deny he was a brilliant 1:55:12.160 --> 1:55:18.640 method cook. But I don't care what Elon's SAT score is. 1:55:18.800 --> 1:55:22.600 Fourteen hundred. According to Isaacson, he's clearly some sort of 1:55:22.640 --> 1:55:25.879 outlier in many ways people would associate with intelligence, probably 1:55:25.920 --> 1:55:29.640 even a genius. And yet when my first off, it 1:55:29.680 --> 1:55:32.400 becomes clear through this that Nate does not consider a 1:55:32.440 --> 1:55:35.720 fourteen hundred to be an impressive SAT score and would 1:55:35.760 --> 1:55:38.960 normally be judgmental of someone who had an SAT score 1:55:39.000 --> 1:55:41.320 of fourteen hundred if it weren't for all of Elon's 1:55:41.320 --> 1:55:44.800 other genius accomplishments. And yet, when my partner and I 1:55:44.880 --> 1:55:46.560 were heading to dinner the other day and we saw 1:55:46.600 --> 1:55:48.920 some tweet that Elon sent I forget which one because 1:55:48.920 --> 1:55:51.760 he tweets so much, we were both like, man, he's 1:55:51.800 --> 1:55:54.720 such a dumbass. Yes, someone can be both a genius 1:55:54.760 --> 1:55:57.720 and a dumbass. Welcome to what I call spikey intelligence. 1:55:57.760 --> 1:55:58.280 Here we go. 1:55:58.800 --> 1:56:01.520 This gets to like the core or what's annoying about 1:56:01.600 --> 1:56:04.240 Nate is his need to He's one of these guys. 1:56:04.280 --> 1:56:07.280 You know, you know what it is. He's an intellectual 1:56:07.440 --> 1:56:11.680 enclosurist right where he's not confident to be like everyone 1:56:11.760 --> 1:56:14.080 is very aware of the fact that no one is 1:56:14.120 --> 1:56:17.120 good at everything, and that people have holes in their competence, 1:56:17.440 --> 1:56:20.560 and that there are like brilliant surgeons who are bad 1:56:20.680 --> 1:56:23.960 fathers or whatever, because there are different kinds of intelligence. 1:56:24.000 --> 1:56:27.560 This is like a broadly common understanding. Nate has to 1:56:27.600 --> 1:56:29.760 give it a name so that he can sell his books. 1:56:29.760 --> 1:56:31.560 So he gives it the names. It's like an intellectual. 1:56:31.640 --> 1:56:34.200 Now it's my idea. I'm the one who came up 1:56:34.240 --> 1:56:37.560 with the concept that smart people can be dumbasses. Stop it, Nate, 1:56:37.600 --> 1:56:38.280 it's annoying. 1:56:38.720 --> 1:56:42.520 Capital ask Capital I rights to trademark spike intelligence. 1:56:42.600 --> 1:56:47.720 Yeah, yeah, Now he acknowledges that this isn't entirely original, 1:56:47.800 --> 1:56:51.720 and then links to somebody without really like crediting them. Interestingly, 1:56:51.760 --> 1:56:53.880 many of the instances online refer to people of the 1:56:54.120 --> 1:56:57.400 on the autism spectrum. Musk has publicly stated that he 1:56:57.440 --> 1:57:00.680 has Asperger syndrome. But the concept is simple. All intelligence 1:57:00.720 --> 1:57:04.080 is a multi dimensional phenomenon. The scientific consensus is that 1:57:04.120 --> 1:57:07.240 there's also something known as a G factor, sometimes also 1:57:07.320 --> 1:57:11.000 called general intelligence. As an empirical matter, most traits we'd 1:57:11.000 --> 1:57:14.640 associate with intelligence are positively correlated. For instance, math and 1:57:14.760 --> 1:57:17.960 verbal skills and the gire are correlated. The correlations are 1:57:18.000 --> 1:57:19.760 loose enough that you'll wind up with all sorts of 1:57:19.760 --> 1:57:22.800 different permutations on the spectrum of human behavior. And he's 1:57:22.840 --> 1:57:24.600 just going into like he talks about like the absent 1:57:24.640 --> 1:57:28.080 minded professor, Like it's all just these these very common 1:57:28.080 --> 1:57:31.920 ideas that like, yeah, people are usually bad at more 1:57:31.960 --> 1:57:35.400 things than they're good at, right, Like it's there's no 1:57:35.440 --> 1:57:40.720 need to explain how elon Musk has been successful at 1:57:40.800 --> 1:57:43.440 certain things, but Nate does and he has to keep 1:57:43.480 --> 1:57:45.400 going back to. Like he makes a comment later and 1:57:45.480 --> 1:57:48.520 here about how Musk is clearly a brilliant engineer. He 1:57:48.520 --> 1:57:51.000 doesn't back this up with evidence. He just says that, Like, well, 1:57:51.040 --> 1:57:53.560 if you read the book that Ashley Vance wrote, he 1:57:53.680 --> 1:57:56.600 obviously signed off on a lot of great engineering moves, 1:57:56.720 --> 1:57:59.080 which ignores the fact that, like he's not making any 1:57:59.120 --> 1:58:02.040 of these decisions, Like he bought a company that already 1:58:02.080 --> 1:58:05.280 had good automotive technology. He hired a bunch of rocket 1:58:05.280 --> 1:58:10.720 engineers to design rockets. Elon is arguably good at hiring 1:58:10.800 --> 1:58:15.280 in certain circumstances, and he is inarguably a great hype man, right, 1:58:15.440 --> 1:58:18.680 Like that's the actual brilliance that Elon has is he 1:58:18.760 --> 1:58:21.360 was very very good at hyping people up and getting 1:58:21.360 --> 1:58:24.040 people to believe in him until he was too big 1:58:24.080 --> 1:58:26.920 to fail. Like that's the one thing he actually did. 1:58:27.400 --> 1:58:29.880 But Nate can't accept that because I think it kind of, 1:58:30.160 --> 1:58:32.760 among other things, it kind of reveals what Nate is, 1:58:33.120 --> 1:58:35.920 who is a guy who was really good at one 1:58:36.120 --> 1:58:40.120 narrow thing and now has a career writing about everything, 1:58:40.880 --> 1:58:44.560 and he can't that's like a dangerous thing for Nate 1:58:44.680 --> 1:58:46.240 to think too hard about. 1:58:47.200 --> 1:58:52.000 Let's learn more about Nate's spiky intelligence after these very 1:58:52.040 --> 1:58:53.720 soft and soothing ads. 1:58:53.920 --> 1:59:05.520 Yeah we're back. 1:59:05.640 --> 1:59:07.960 I want to talk a little bit about the danger 1:59:08.120 --> 1:59:10.720 of being a guy who gets famous for being really 1:59:10.720 --> 1:59:13.240 good at one thing and then gets a job talking 1:59:13.240 --> 1:59:16.520 about everything, because I've had a version of that experience, 1:59:16.640 --> 1:59:19.760 and let me tell you, you're not ever going to be 1:59:20.200 --> 1:59:22.760 competent to discuss all of the things that you can 1:59:22.800 --> 1:59:26.440 make money talking about if you're a popular entertainer. No 1:59:26.480 --> 1:59:29.240 one ever has been and no one ever will be, 1:59:29.840 --> 1:59:31.840 which is why what you ought to do is the 1:59:31.880 --> 1:59:35.240 thing Nate initially tried to do, which is bring on 1:59:35.360 --> 1:59:38.880 a bunch of people to like, run a website with 1:59:38.960 --> 1:59:42.600 you right where you cover more things than one. Unfortunately, 1:59:42.680 --> 1:59:45.200 it turns out five thirty eight was a bad business venture. 1:59:45.240 --> 1:59:48.400 It got massively overvalued, a company spent a shitload more 1:59:48.400 --> 1:59:50.640 money on it that it was capable of making, and 1:59:50.680 --> 1:59:53.720 now everyone's gotten laid off and Nate left years ago 1:59:53.840 --> 1:59:56.800 to do his sub stack. You know, it's a tragic 1:59:56.880 --> 1:59:59.960 case in the problem of like hubris and the fact 2:00:00.040 --> 2:00:02.920 that maybe a guy who's really good at gambling shouldn't 2:00:03.080 --> 2:00:07.080 run an entire media enterprise. But Nate doesn't like thinking 2:00:07.160 --> 2:00:08.920 about that. It isn't like thinking about the fact that 2:00:09.000 --> 2:00:11.839 maybe the only thing Elon Musk was ever good at 2:00:12.160 --> 2:00:15.200 was being the guy from the Music Man, because I 2:00:15.240 --> 2:00:18.280 think Nate bought into Elon Musk for a significant period 2:00:18.280 --> 2:00:23.200 of time, right, he still clearly does. Yes, Yeah, there's 2:00:23.240 --> 2:00:25.280 been this thing lately where a lot of folks on 2:00:25.320 --> 2:00:27.960 the left have been like the Oh, you couldn't always 2:00:28.000 --> 2:00:30.200 tell that he was a con man, You couldn't always 2:00:30.200 --> 2:00:32.320 tell that he was this bad, like he was always 2:00:32.320 --> 2:00:35.200 the worst. I was like, no, Like back in twenty 2:00:35.280 --> 2:00:38.280 fourteen fifteen, when I was writing about the billionaires and 2:00:38.440 --> 2:00:41.080 rich people that were evil, I was focusing on Jamie 2:00:41.120 --> 2:00:43.320 Diamond because he had helped create the two thousand and 2:00:43.360 --> 2:00:46.040 eight financial collapse and he seen it. He just seemed 2:00:46.080 --> 2:00:48.280 obviously much worse than this guy who up to that 2:00:48.360 --> 2:00:52.080 point was pretty much just making cars and rockets. You know, 2:00:52.400 --> 2:00:55.440 you have two companies doing that. Musk was not top 2:00:55.520 --> 2:00:59.200 of most people's radars for very good reason, which gets 2:00:59.240 --> 2:01:01.840 to like, there's this thing that's been created because of 2:01:01.880 --> 2:01:04.880 some of like the sinister beliefs that his grandfather had 2:01:05.280 --> 2:01:07.600 and his like family background which has a lot of 2:01:07.600 --> 2:01:10.680 white supremacy in it, to that that this has been 2:01:10.760 --> 2:01:13.720 Elon's sort of like grand plan from the beginning, and 2:01:13.720 --> 2:01:16.440 that it's all come together for him, like as if 2:01:16.480 --> 2:01:19.680 he's he's, you know, a Marvel or a James Bond 2:01:19.720 --> 2:01:22.120 villain who's been executing this like thirty year plan to 2:01:22.160 --> 2:01:22.920 get where he is. 2:01:23.240 --> 2:01:23.440 Yeah. 2:01:23.520 --> 2:01:24.520 Yeah, well, I. 2:01:24.440 --> 2:01:27.440 Think when you look at his cognition, like he's not 2:01:27.680 --> 2:01:30.160 the same man he was ten years ago. He's not 2:01:30.200 --> 2:01:32.720 the same guy he was when he started dating Grimes. 2:01:32.760 --> 2:01:34.800 And I'm saying he was a good man before then. 2:01:35.160 --> 2:01:39.080 I don't think he particularly ever was, but he's clearly 2:01:39.160 --> 2:01:42.839 his brain has degraded in part due to contact through Twitter. 2:01:43.240 --> 2:01:45.560 And well yeah, and you can like measure this through 2:01:45.680 --> 2:01:48.640 his posting as well, like yeah, like that the types 2:01:48.640 --> 2:01:50.920 of posts he would make in twenty seventeen are like 2:01:51.200 --> 2:01:54.240 completely opposite to the way that that he would talk 2:01:54.280 --> 2:01:56.480 about certain social issues. Now, oh yeah, he's not like 2:01:56.560 --> 2:01:58.760 meming about like anarcho syndicalism. 2:01:59.000 --> 2:02:01.120 Yeah, to a few of those things. But I want 2:02:01.160 --> 2:02:03.320 to read another quote from Nate's article, because he's going 2:02:03.360 --> 2:02:06.040 to talk about his book On the Edge, which quote 2:02:06.080 --> 2:02:09.280 describes a certain community of intelligent people that I call 2:02:09.680 --> 2:02:13.480 the River. These people who occupy a range of professions 2:02:13.480 --> 2:02:17.000 from AI research to poker to venture capital, are bright, 2:02:17.200 --> 2:02:21.160 but in spikey ways. In Baron Cohen's dacotomy, they lean 2:02:21.200 --> 2:02:24.520 heavily towards the systematic side of the equation. They're good 2:02:24.520 --> 2:02:27.680 at abstract analytic reasoning, but they may lack other forms 2:02:27.680 --> 2:02:31.360 of intelligence like empathy, judgment, and self awareness. They also 2:02:31.440 --> 2:02:35.400 have some distinctive characteristics largely unrelated to intelligence. For example, 2:02:35.560 --> 2:02:38.840 they tend to be extraordinarily competitive and somewhat contrariant. And again, 2:02:39.160 --> 2:02:41.400 what you are talking about all of these people number one, 2:02:41.600 --> 2:02:44.200 When he says AI research, he's not talking about people 2:02:44.240 --> 2:02:46.920 who are doing like the gut level coding. He's talking 2:02:46.920 --> 2:02:52.040 about Sam Altman, right, ye, poker, venture capital. This is 2:02:52.080 --> 2:02:56.280 all gambling. You're all talking about gamblers. The River is 2:02:56.480 --> 2:03:01.200 just gamblers, Nate. It's people like you who put money 2:03:01.480 --> 2:03:06.200 on bets, and they are contrarian and competitive because that's 2:03:06.240 --> 2:03:11.080 how gamblers are. That's the intelligence, that's the river. Like 2:03:11.160 --> 2:03:14.040 he's thinking about it as like the specific chunk of 2:03:14.120 --> 2:03:16.680 intellectuals who have You know, there's some dangers, but they 2:03:16.680 --> 2:03:19.600 have great potential to make the world Brilliant're like, no, no, no, no, 2:03:20.000 --> 2:03:22.760 these are just people who like wind up shooting themselves 2:03:22.760 --> 2:03:24.760 outside of a sports betting facility. 2:03:25.080 --> 2:03:29.320 Like that's the river, mate, I have been turning into 2:03:29.320 --> 2:03:32.160 a monster during our friend poker nights recently. 2:03:32.280 --> 2:03:34.600 It's it's tough garrison. 2:03:34.760 --> 2:03:36.040 By the way, I've been meaning to talk to you 2:03:36.040 --> 2:03:38.640 about wearing the full data makeup, because you know your 2:03:38.640 --> 2:03:40.880 skin can't breathe. If you coat your whole body, you're 2:03:40.880 --> 2:03:42.320 only supposed to put that on your face. 2:03:42.400 --> 2:03:45.080 I don't do that every time I play. Get a 2:03:45.120 --> 2:03:48.600 gold finger yourself, gar, I don't put on the data 2:03:48.680 --> 2:03:53.480 makeup every time I play poker, just that one time. Actually, no, 2:03:53.560 --> 2:03:57.880 I've done that twice nowt never minds. 2:03:56.440 --> 2:03:59.760 Okay, okay, it's becoming I also have the little hats. 2:04:00.040 --> 2:04:02.400 I ordered a twelve pack of like of like the 2:04:02.400 --> 2:04:04.839 little like poker visors to complete the outface. 2:04:04.960 --> 2:04:06.400 She did, of course she did. 2:04:06.520 --> 2:04:09.760 Yeah, it would be rude, not too for better or worse. 2:04:10.760 --> 2:04:14.200 This typology the river is associated with high achievement in 2:04:14.280 --> 2:04:18.040 certain highly lucrative professions, especially tech and finance. It is 2:04:18.080 --> 2:04:22.160 also associated with high variance. Makman free built FTX into 2:04:22.160 --> 2:04:24.800 a company that investors valued at thirty two billion before 2:04:24.800 --> 2:04:29.200 the House of cards collapsed again because he was a gambler. Yeah, 2:04:29.560 --> 2:04:32.000 and again Nate can't just accept oh, he was never 2:04:32.040 --> 2:04:34.400 actually very smart. He just got really lucky for a 2:04:34.440 --> 2:04:37.160 while and then gave it and then gambled it all 2:04:37.160 --> 2:04:39.680 away because he wasn't actually as smart as anyone thought. 2:04:39.880 --> 2:04:42.880 Nate says, I interviewed SBF several times for the book, 2:04:42.920 --> 2:04:44.640 and I can tell you that he very much falls 2:04:44.640 --> 2:04:49.120 into the genius but dumbass category. How about just dumbassy, 2:04:50.280 --> 2:04:51.240 lucky dumbass. 2:04:51.280 --> 2:04:52.000 It's not hard. 2:04:52.240 --> 2:04:55.600 What's the genius? Where did he prove that? 2:04:55.760 --> 2:04:58.360 I mean, he proved that by fooling Nate silver a 2:04:58.360 --> 2:05:01.720 man who probably yeah, value his own intelligence like a 2:05:01.760 --> 2:05:02.320 great deal. 2:05:02.400 --> 2:05:04.240 Yeah, I mean that's the whole thing, right, Nate Silva 2:05:04.320 --> 2:05:06.800 kan and like it would be ego death to admit 2:05:06.840 --> 2:05:08.720 that there were just some lucky, dumb white dudes. 2:05:09.080 --> 2:05:09.680 Yeah. 2:05:09.720 --> 2:05:11.920 If a guy had won like one of the lotteries, 2:05:12.160 --> 2:05:14.200 was like a billion and a half dollars, right, got 2:05:14.240 --> 2:05:17.040 crazy rich and then lost it all in two weeks 2:05:17.080 --> 2:05:19.960 because he just kept putting half a million dollars at 2:05:19.960 --> 2:05:22.880 a time on twenty one black at a roulette table 2:05:22.880 --> 2:05:26.160 in Vegas, and I would be like, well, obviously he's 2:05:26.200 --> 2:05:29.040 a genius, but he's also kind of a dumbass. How 2:05:29.080 --> 2:05:31.120 else could he have made the money in the first place? 2:05:31.120 --> 2:05:33.080 And I was like, no, he got lucky, and then 2:05:33.120 --> 2:05:35.920 he gambled it all away because he's he doesn't have 2:05:36.000 --> 2:05:40.480 good judgment. Yeah, So it's important to avoid two pitfalls 2:05:40.480 --> 2:05:43.920 when encountering people with spiky intelligence, namely, neither there are 2:05:43.920 --> 2:05:46.400 worst traits nor their best ones tell the whole story. 2:05:46.760 --> 2:05:49.640 And I don't disagree with that. However, it's a meaningless 2:05:49.640 --> 2:05:53.560 statement because that's true of every human being ever born. Yeah, 2:05:53.600 --> 2:05:56.520 but clearly Nate doesn't feel that way, because only I 2:05:56.520 --> 2:05:59.440 think the undercurrent here is that only people like this 2:06:00.040 --> 2:06:03.240 It's mind are worth talking about because only gamblers bring 2:06:03.280 --> 2:06:04.720 the world forward, right. 2:06:04.680 --> 2:06:06.640 Yeah, no one else to serve empathy? 2:06:07.240 --> 2:06:11.920 Yeah, yes, like you're just addicted to putting money on 2:06:12.040 --> 2:06:16.320 sports games and elections, Nate Silver. Anyway, So here's the 2:06:16.360 --> 2:06:18.520 two things he wants to warn us up or wants 2:06:18.560 --> 2:06:21.920 people to avoid. Elon is highly intelligent, in several ways, 2:06:21.960 --> 2:06:24.400 but that does not mean that everything he does is brilliant. 2:06:24.480 --> 2:06:27.080 Some things he does are exceptionally dumb or dangerous, and 2:06:27.120 --> 2:06:30.520 we shouldn't make excuses for them. But likewise, it's absurd 2:06:30.560 --> 2:06:33.040 to suggest that Elon isn't brilliant in many respects just 2:06:33.080 --> 2:06:35.440 because he isn't in others. And if he has merely 2:06:35.600 --> 2:06:38.600 very good SAT scores, I don't care. Nobody does. It's 2:06:38.600 --> 2:06:41.880 not high school. Nobody cares about SSAT skills. 2:06:41.920 --> 2:06:44.800 Elon's what like like like fifty, like fifty five or 2:06:44.840 --> 2:06:45.960 something like what are we doing? 2:06:46.440 --> 2:06:46.640 Yeah? 2:06:46.680 --> 2:06:49.880 Yeah, yeah, yeah, you are a middle aged man. I 2:06:49.920 --> 2:06:52.000 don't even know what my SAT score was. 2:06:52.720 --> 2:06:55.040 I'm gonna say like, I never took our SAT, but 2:06:55.080 --> 2:06:57.080 I spent more than a decade in full time education, 2:06:57.160 --> 2:06:59.880 and anyone who ever told me that SAT schools I 2:07:00.080 --> 2:07:01.680 immediately hated and never took them. 2:07:01.680 --> 2:07:02.040 Seriously. 2:07:02.040 --> 2:07:05.160 I've been almost twenty years asking people questions for a living, 2:07:05.160 --> 2:07:07.879 and I've never asked anyone there A sorry, Garrison. 2:07:08.120 --> 2:07:10.400 Although SAT might not be like a stable metric for 2:07:10.560 --> 2:07:14.440 evaluating intelligence, surely Nate has an alternative method. 2:07:15.600 --> 2:07:18.920 Absolutely not Garrison, just how much well he doesn't. 2:07:18.720 --> 2:07:20.920 He doesn't have an alternative method and seeing what you 2:07:21.000 --> 2:07:24.120 might quote an infographic because the next section of the 2:07:24.280 --> 2:07:28.280 article is a quick inventory of Elon's intelligence. 2:07:28.720 --> 2:07:32.280 So first he admits he tried to track Elon down 2:07:32.320 --> 2:07:34.240 for his stupid book, but he couldn't get him to 2:07:34.280 --> 2:07:37.800 talk to him. Because even I have to say, Elon 2:07:37.920 --> 2:07:42.000 does have better shit to do than talk to Nate Silver, 2:07:42.360 --> 2:07:45.600 because Elon is abusing ketamine to a near fatal degree, 2:07:45.840 --> 2:07:47.680 and that is a better use of his time than 2:07:47.720 --> 2:07:52.160 talking to Nate Silver. So since he can't actually talk 2:07:52.280 --> 2:07:55.840 to Musk, he's going to model and extrapolate from quote 2:07:55.920 --> 2:07:59.120 many other Silicon Valley big wigs I have met, okay 2:07:59.360 --> 2:08:01.040 helping him in the This is the fact that quote 2:08:01.160 --> 2:08:04.720 Musk maintains an extremely public profile. He's turned X into 2:08:04.760 --> 2:08:08.000 a running diary of his innermost thoughts, and in addition 2:08:08.080 --> 2:08:10.760 to that, the biographies of the guy one more caveat. 2:08:10.800 --> 2:08:13.320 Here I will try to evaluate the overall trajectory of 2:08:13.440 --> 2:08:16.880 Elon's career, not just his recent antics. So we go 2:08:17.040 --> 2:08:20.040 down here and the next segment is dimensions were Musk 2:08:20.120 --> 2:08:24.160 has exceptionally high or genius level intelligence. So finally Nate's 2:08:24.240 --> 2:08:26.560 going to prove it, and I'm gonna I'm going to 2:08:26.600 --> 2:08:29.520 show you guys, how he how he chooses to do that, 2:08:30.120 --> 2:08:32.320 what the evidence he gives us here is, and I 2:08:32.440 --> 2:08:32.920 think this is. 2:08:32.960 --> 2:08:36.480 Something that we should reveal to the audience after these ads. 2:08:36.680 --> 2:08:49.280 Good point here, all right, we're back. So let's look 2:08:49.280 --> 2:08:52.040 at what Nate shows as is the chief dimension where 2:08:52.160 --> 2:08:56.560 Musk has shown high or genius level intelligence. I'm just 2:08:56.680 --> 2:09:00.640 reading that first line, man, So the first words under 2:09:00.640 --> 2:09:03.920 this are cognitive load capacity in overall horsepower slash ram. 2:09:04.040 --> 2:09:07.080 He's always on, I mean literally look at how often 2:09:07.160 --> 2:09:10.760 he's tweeting, and then a huge graph that shows the 2:09:10.960 --> 2:09:14.400 density of tweets posted and win which has been used 2:09:14.400 --> 2:09:17.120 by other people to prove that since sometime in late 2:09:17.200 --> 2:09:19.680 twenty twenty two, he's almost never gotten more than about 2:09:19.720 --> 2:09:23.720 three hours without posting a tweet, Like it's just a 2:09:23.960 --> 2:09:27.080 solid red after he buys the site. This like graph 2:09:27.160 --> 2:09:30.160 of like when he makes his post, he's never offline. 2:09:30.240 --> 2:09:31.400 Now he's not sleeping. 2:09:31.880 --> 2:09:34.000 So this is a graph of Elon Musk's tweets from 2:09:34.000 --> 2:09:37.920 twenty fourteen to twenty twenty four showing the time of 2:09:38.160 --> 2:09:41.160 day and when a post is posted, represented by small 2:09:41.240 --> 2:09:45.320 red dots and yes, at around twenty twenty two, the 2:09:45.480 --> 2:09:49.640 thickness of the red increases dramatically. It's almost just a 2:09:49.680 --> 2:09:52.160 straight red like the period of where he must be 2:09:52.280 --> 2:09:55.920 sleeping in this, Yeah, is very concerning. 2:09:56.240 --> 2:09:59.840 No, he sometimes sleeps from about six to nine a 2:10:00.680 --> 2:10:04.440 as far as we can tell, but not regularly or often. 2:10:04.560 --> 2:10:06.320 It's like a streak at twenty twenty three where he 2:10:06.440 --> 2:10:08.400 just isn't sleepy, he's not sleeping. 2:10:08.520 --> 2:10:14.000 And again he's on drugs. People. I think they're probably prescripted. 2:10:14.000 --> 2:10:16.880 I think I'm certain he's on ketamine that has been prescribed. 2:10:16.960 --> 2:10:19.080 When you're this rich, you just get whatever drugs you 2:10:19.160 --> 2:10:21.120 want to do recreationally prescribed. 2:10:21.320 --> 2:10:21.480 Right. 2:10:22.080 --> 2:10:25.920 But this is drug user behavior. I don't say that 2:10:26.320 --> 2:10:29.440 to judge drug users. I say that as someone who 2:10:29.520 --> 2:10:33.680 had a drug problem, like this is drug user behavior. 2:10:33.880 --> 2:10:38.080 And specifically Silver he's using the sobriety as possible. Sorry, 2:10:38.200 --> 2:10:40.760 and specifically Silver is using this as an evidence of 2:10:40.880 --> 2:10:43.320 MUCKs intelligence. Yeah, it's not. 2:10:43.520 --> 2:10:47.040 He's scaling his Twitter activity as a sign that he 2:10:47.160 --> 2:10:49.000 must be like a special type of person. 2:10:49.920 --> 2:10:55.120 He's railing adderall and eating ketamine lozenges all day, every day. 2:10:55.280 --> 2:10:57.040 That's what this is a sign of, and no one 2:10:57.120 --> 2:11:00.560 is allowed to take his phone away anyway. Here's how 2:11:00.680 --> 2:11:03.800 Nate explains why this is smart. In NBA term, we 2:11:04.000 --> 2:11:06.920 say this as a player with an exceptionally high motor, 2:11:07.360 --> 2:11:10.000 and this is undoubtedly a valuable trait as the world 2:11:10.080 --> 2:11:13.440 becomes more complex. Lack's fall. I was simultaneously doing an 2:11:13.480 --> 2:11:16.400 extensive book media tour, running the election model, trying to 2:11:16.400 --> 2:11:19.640 build up Silver bulletin, plus some intensive consulting work. Even 2:11:19.680 --> 2:11:21.640 if I mostly kept my wits about me, it was 2:11:21.680 --> 2:11:24.080 an incredible amount of mental and physical strain that would 2:11:24.080 --> 2:11:26.920 only have been sustainable for a short burst. But Elon 2:11:27.080 --> 2:11:29.520 is taking on I don't know, approximately a thousand times 2:11:29.560 --> 2:11:31.680 more stress than that, and has done so for years. No, 2:11:31.800 --> 2:11:36.480 he's not. He just tweets he has a massive number one. 2:11:36.840 --> 2:11:39.600 All of the businesses are being run by people who 2:11:39.680 --> 2:11:42.640 are specialists in those businesses. He gets called on to 2:11:42.720 --> 2:11:44.920 sit in meetings and say yes or no, toe stuff 2:11:44.920 --> 2:11:49.280 and occasionally tells him to do something crazy that causes issues. Right, 2:11:49.760 --> 2:11:53.680 and they're not running smoothly. Tesla's lost more value now 2:11:53.840 --> 2:11:57.520 than it gained after the election, and SpaceX just had 2:11:57.520 --> 2:12:01.760 a giant rocket explode again. The boring company has not 2:12:02.480 --> 2:12:05.600 done anything other than make a useless hole underneath Vegas, 2:12:05.680 --> 2:12:08.720 and the hyper loop is nothing right like this. This 2:12:09.640 --> 2:12:14.760 is just full of shit, Nate. Like what you have 2:12:14.960 --> 2:12:18.400 just described, running an election model that's functional, going on 2:12:18.520 --> 2:12:22.000 a book tour and consulting and writing a newsletter is 2:12:22.120 --> 2:12:24.840 more work than I credit Elon Musk with actually doing. 2:12:24.880 --> 2:12:26.760 Oh yeah, more actual effort work. 2:12:27.040 --> 2:12:29.920 Risk is mostly like sitting in an occasional meeting doing 2:12:30.040 --> 2:12:32.960 drugs and injecting random women with his sperm yes and 2:12:33.120 --> 2:12:33.839 sending tweets. 2:12:33.960 --> 2:12:35.160 He doesn't do the injecting. 2:12:35.240 --> 2:12:40.480 I think, oh, god, Garrison, that comes up to no no, oh, 2:12:40.840 --> 2:12:43.960 and it's crazy how it does. Right before he posts 2:12:44.000 --> 2:12:45.760 the graph of how much Elon tweets. 2:12:46.000 --> 2:12:49.120 Okay, good there it is, okay, okay. 2:12:49.440 --> 2:12:52.160 Politics and social media poison a lot of people's brains. 2:12:52.280 --> 2:12:55.040 Having that much wealth and power has to be intoxicating, 2:12:55.200 --> 2:12:58.680 especially if Muska ostracizes people who might keep him grounded 2:12:58.920 --> 2:13:02.240 more sympathetically. He's taking on an incredible array of responsibilities, 2:13:02.480 --> 2:13:05.040 doing several really hard jobs at once, each of which 2:13:05.080 --> 2:13:07.120 would be stressful on their own, while still managing to 2:13:07.240 --> 2:13:11.200 father thirteen children. I'm tweeting hundreds of times per week. Again, 2:13:11.520 --> 2:13:16.200 equivalent efforts tweeting hundreds of times a week and fathering 2:13:16.320 --> 2:13:19.800 thirteen children. He's not a father to them, No, he 2:13:19.960 --> 2:13:22.280 just he contributed by it. 2:13:22.440 --> 2:13:23.720 He didn't even have sex y. 2:13:24.280 --> 2:13:27.280 Yeah, it's neually the lowest possible effort way to have 2:13:27.360 --> 2:13:27.800 a child. 2:13:28.800 --> 2:13:31.920 Wait, Like, I'm gonna guess most of the people with 2:13:32.040 --> 2:13:35.680 penises listening to this come like, that's not a big effort. 2:13:35.880 --> 2:13:37.640 You wouldn't include that. It's like, what did I get 2:13:37.680 --> 2:13:40.720 done this week? Well, in addition to working forty hours, 2:13:40.760 --> 2:13:41.480 I jacked off. 2:13:41.560 --> 2:13:43.160 That's a little transphobic. 2:13:45.400 --> 2:13:47.680 This is a joke. 2:13:47.680 --> 2:13:48.960 Anyway, continue it said. 2:13:50.240 --> 2:13:53.240 I'm just saying it doesn't count as work, you know, 2:13:53.480 --> 2:13:57.160 yeah from us, unless you're a sex worker, than it does. Okay, 2:13:57.520 --> 2:13:59.640 Like especially I know a lot of male porn stars. 2:14:01.120 --> 2:14:03.080 That's that is a difficult part of the job. That's 2:14:03.120 --> 2:14:06.120 why they inject their penises directly with erection drugs that 2:14:06.240 --> 2:14:06.920 kill their hearts. 2:14:07.560 --> 2:14:10.200 I would like to get into more of Silver's like 2:14:10.760 --> 2:14:15.680 justification for why why he associates this this high tweet 2:14:15.720 --> 2:14:17.120 load with like intelligence. 2:14:18.040 --> 2:14:22.120 Well, because it shows rapid cognition in thin slicing ability. 2:14:22.280 --> 2:14:26.280 Okay, hmm right, yeah, sure sure. 2:14:26.520 --> 2:14:29.640 Indeed, in a capitalist system with a significant premium, I'm 2:14:29.680 --> 2:14:32.400 being first to market. Making decent judgments fast is often 2:14:32.440 --> 2:14:36.560 more important than making better judgments slowly. Canonically, vcs imagine 2:14:36.600 --> 2:14:40.280 themselves rapidly filtering through potential founders, as though on Shark Tank, 2:14:40.640 --> 2:14:43.600 relying on well known gut instinct. But this also gets 2:14:43.640 --> 2:14:45.560 people in trouble, as it has for Elon. What is 2:14:45.640 --> 2:14:51.520 shark Tank's success rate? Yeah, I bet there's a quick 2:14:51.600 --> 2:14:54.400 answer to that. Yeah, and that's consinuering. 2:14:54.440 --> 2:14:57.720 The air has built in free television advertising for any 2:14:57.800 --> 2:14:58.400 product means. 2:14:58.560 --> 2:15:04.400 It's than fifty percent of the they're successfully closed. God, yeah, 2:15:04.640 --> 2:15:09.240 so I died out. All this tweeting also shows abstract 2:15:09.320 --> 2:15:13.400 problem solving capability. This is related to the idea of creativity, 2:15:13.800 --> 2:15:16.960 though in Musk's case it seemingly doesn't manifest itself an 2:15:17.040 --> 2:15:19.320 artistic prowesslyevingly. 2:15:19.560 --> 2:15:21.640 You know what, I'll give it to day. There, I'll 2:15:21.680 --> 2:15:22.240 give it today. 2:15:23.280 --> 2:15:25.680 I don't disagree with you there. And then, of course, 2:15:25.920 --> 2:15:29.880 instrumental rationality philosophy nerds like to distinguish between two types 2:15:29.920 --> 2:15:34.120 of rationality. Instrumental rationality is aligning means with ens, basically 2:15:34.200 --> 2:15:36.480 figuring out the most efficient ways to get what you want. 2:15:36.880 --> 2:15:38.600 For this category, I think you have to point towards 2:15:38.640 --> 2:15:41.840 the scoreboard, must have some unparalleled accomplishments, and isn't about 2:15:41.880 --> 2:15:44.360 to let anybody stand in his way. It's also a 2:15:44.440 --> 2:15:47.839 category often associated with manipulativeness or even being an asshole, 2:15:47.960 --> 2:15:49.200 not one for nice guys. 2:15:49.760 --> 2:15:49.880 Now. 2:15:49.960 --> 2:15:52.920 And again, if Musk's actual goal is his stated goal 2:15:53.000 --> 2:15:57.600 getting to Mars, then backing the political party that is 2:15:57.840 --> 2:16:01.000 actively doing as much damage to the bio fear as possible, 2:16:01.120 --> 2:16:04.160 ensuring that it will not have the carrying capacity necessary 2:16:04.200 --> 2:16:08.040 to make any kind of off world civilization likely, I 2:16:08.120 --> 2:16:11.320 would argue is a stupid decision. But he doesn't actually 2:16:11.400 --> 2:16:13.920 want us to get to Mars, right, He just wants 2:16:14.000 --> 2:16:15.320 to be in charge of everything. 2:16:15.640 --> 2:16:18.280 No, he wants to run his businesses with no government interference. 2:16:18.360 --> 2:16:19.320 That's that's really it, yesh. 2:16:19.360 --> 2:16:22.480 It is yes, yes, yes, and he has been very 2:16:22.560 --> 2:16:26.840 successful at that. But again it's the successive brute force. 2:16:27.000 --> 2:16:29.080 It's the same way as like if you hire a 2:16:29.160 --> 2:16:31.480 thousand people who are willing to like break the kneecaps 2:16:31.520 --> 2:16:33.920 of a guy who annoys you. Like you could say, like, 2:16:34.160 --> 2:16:36.320 I'm very smart when it comes to hurting people who 2:16:36.360 --> 2:16:38.080 annoy me. But really, you just have a lot of 2:16:38.200 --> 2:16:40.840 dudes who can beat people up for you. Like is 2:16:40.920 --> 2:16:43.160 that intelligence? Or did you just have enough money to 2:16:43.280 --> 2:16:44.039 hire thugs? 2:16:44.120 --> 2:16:45.240 Or are you just a mob boss? 2:16:45.560 --> 2:16:49.119 Right? Are you just a mob boss? And a mob boss? 2:16:49.240 --> 2:16:51.320 No one is allowed to attack because it's going to 2:16:51.360 --> 2:16:54.440 be domestic terror to fuck up a Tesla store soon, 2:16:54.600 --> 2:16:57.600 you know. Anyway, we need ghost dog. 2:16:57.920 --> 2:16:59.879 It's pretty it's pretty upsetting because you know, a few 2:17:00.000 --> 2:17:01.400 weeks ago, I was having a little bit of a 2:17:01.680 --> 2:17:04.959 resist Live moment and I actually ashed my clothes cigarette 2:17:05.440 --> 2:17:08.920 on a parked Tesla. Felt pretty cool about it. But 2:17:09.080 --> 2:17:11.960 now I guess I can't even do that. It's too dangerous. 2:17:12.000 --> 2:17:13.080 Now, No, you can't. 2:17:13.160 --> 2:17:14.840 I could face substantial charges. 2:17:15.360 --> 2:17:17.880 You might want to text resist to a certain five 2:17:17.959 --> 2:17:20.160 digit number or something. That's probably the best way to 2:17:20.200 --> 2:17:21.120 solve this garrison. 2:17:21.480 --> 2:17:23.800 I just text resist to every single person in my 2:17:23.920 --> 2:17:27.080 phone book every day. I mean, it takes about seven hours. 2:17:27.240 --> 2:17:28.920 I have fallen behind on work. 2:17:29.879 --> 2:17:31.880 You know, it's the only thing we can do to 2:17:31.959 --> 2:17:32.959 five FasTIS. 2:17:33.240 --> 2:17:36.680 The quickest path to intelligence is having a horrible sleep 2:17:36.760 --> 2:17:40.600 deprivation and drug problem apparently, or at least that is 2:17:40.680 --> 2:17:42.680 how you show for it. It's funny because I saw 2:17:43.440 --> 2:17:47.560 Brian Johnson, the billionaire who's eating his son's blood or 2:17:47.680 --> 2:17:49.920 now plasma. Oh we had a dead guy posted his 2:17:50.000 --> 2:17:53.400 only self study on like the damaging effects of sleep deprivation, 2:17:53.680 --> 2:17:56.160 and I'm pretty sure Musklake retweeted it with like with 2:17:56.320 --> 2:18:00.280 like an emoti or something like, yeah, dude, You're brain 2:18:00.400 --> 2:18:02.400 is completely sure. 2:18:02.680 --> 2:18:05.120 Now you you are you are fried. You are the 2:18:05.200 --> 2:18:06.760 most cooked a ban has ever been. 2:18:06.959 --> 2:18:10.280 It's an interesting study, like there there is legitimately interesting 2:18:10.360 --> 2:18:12.039 things to look at Elo Musk's brain. 2:18:12.440 --> 2:18:15.440 Well yes, and there's a lot of actual scientific data 2:18:15.560 --> 2:18:20.120 put together like exhaustively by researchers studying how not just 2:18:20.200 --> 2:18:24.040 sleep deprivation but like wealth and power impact the brain. 2:18:24.640 --> 2:18:26.920 And like all of it makes a strong case that 2:18:27.080 --> 2:18:29.960 Elon Musk at this point has done more damage to 2:18:30.040 --> 2:18:32.480 his brain than like a career one of those career 2:18:32.680 --> 2:18:35.480 WWE wrestlers who like kills their whole family and then 2:18:35.520 --> 2:18:37.920 shoots themselves in the chest so someone can study their 2:18:37.959 --> 2:18:38.480 brain later. 2:18:39.080 --> 2:18:44.240 Yeah, I mean, well before before we close, I do 2:18:44.320 --> 2:18:47.600 want to say before any psychologists or sociologists or like 2:18:48.879 --> 2:18:51.160 linguists get mad at me. Yes, I know boba and 2:18:51.240 --> 2:18:56.840 kiki is is is? This is a shape language like 2:18:57.320 --> 2:19:01.880 correlation test I myself as well as Nate here, I 2:19:01.920 --> 2:19:04.040 have kind of expanded it's it's it's usage to like 2:19:04.400 --> 2:19:08.200 projecting even more like human or like like emotional qualities 2:19:08.280 --> 2:19:11.119 onto these shapes or onto these specific words. So please, 2:19:11.320 --> 2:19:14.000 sociologists leave me alone, do not do not do that 2:19:14.120 --> 2:19:15.920 message me like. 2:19:16.959 --> 2:19:22.240 Your favorite French don't call. 2:19:23.200 --> 2:19:25.680 I'm afraid it's already too late. I think I already 2:19:25.720 --> 2:19:29.560 hear like twelve different reddators typing. But yes, I think 2:19:29.640 --> 2:19:32.200 Nate's just using that image there as like a metaphor 2:19:32.360 --> 2:19:38.160 to like show how, you know, aggressive or manipulative Musk's 2:19:38.200 --> 2:19:42.560 own intelligences as symbolized by by a kiki as opposed 2:19:42.600 --> 2:19:44.840 to you know, maybe like maybe like a Bill Gates, 2:19:44.879 --> 2:19:47.800 which might be more of like a boba intelligence type. Okay, 2:19:47.959 --> 2:19:50.720 a little softer, a little bit more philanthropy. 2:19:50.879 --> 2:19:54.800 You know, I just got finished reading nothing but rationalist 2:19:54.920 --> 2:19:59.039 and zizion literature for two straight weeks, about a quarter 2:19:59.120 --> 2:20:01.760 of a million words by my last count. Garrison I 2:20:01.800 --> 2:20:04.000 don't have an enemy to do this again. I'm going 2:20:04.080 --> 2:20:06.480 to get back to my Hitler books, you know, where 2:20:06.520 --> 2:20:09.960 things make sense, where the world's safe. 2:20:12.040 --> 2:20:15.400 Yeah, I'm returning to writing about the Syrian Civil War, 2:20:15.520 --> 2:20:18.160 which is my comparative happy place. 2:20:18.440 --> 2:20:20.080 Ah, the Syrian Civil War. 2:20:21.720 --> 2:20:25.400 Yeah, it's a really great world. I do wonder if 2:20:25.400 --> 2:20:28.280 he's trying to avoid some kind of intellectual property thing 2:20:28.480 --> 2:20:30.760 by using that little filter that he used over the 2:20:30.760 --> 2:20:31.520 boom BERANKI no. 2:20:31.600 --> 2:20:34.280 Because it would be if it's actually not fair use 2:20:34.440 --> 2:20:36.920 now as opposed to if he just mentioned that thing. 2:20:37.600 --> 2:20:39.320 He doesn't, Yeah, because he doesn't talk about them. 2:20:39.320 --> 2:20:41.440 Then it is fair use, right, and he could use 2:20:41.520 --> 2:20:43.960 like a little clip of it is and illustrate the point. 2:20:44.040 --> 2:20:45.960 Yeah, like I did with Manu Chow. 2:20:46.080 --> 2:20:48.800 Anyway, this is all I want to say again about 2:20:48.840 --> 2:20:51.320 Nate silver until twenty twenty eight. And if you know 2:20:51.400 --> 2:20:54.360 what the upside if democracy really does die is, we'll 2:20:54.480 --> 2:20:56.240 never have to talk about him again. 2:20:58.280 --> 2:21:02.000 If Trumpet must really take over fully into a full coup, 2:21:02.200 --> 2:21:03.840 we never have to talk about Nate Silvan. 2:21:03.959 --> 2:21:07.160 Nine minutes from now, I'm wearing a Curtis Yarvin T shirt. 2:21:09.320 --> 2:21:10.039 They'll be doing a. 2:21:10.160 --> 2:21:13.440 Sod numbers and he will still be analyzing that data. 2:21:13.800 --> 2:21:16.400 They straight regime capture of Nate SILVERA. 2:21:16.600 --> 2:21:18.879 Well, it doesn't seem possible that Trump could have gotten 2:21:18.920 --> 2:21:20.560 one hundred and four percent of the vote. 2:21:20.640 --> 2:21:22.279 But there's a spiky percentages. 2:21:22.879 --> 2:21:24.439 There's a spikey percentages. 2:21:25.600 --> 2:21:28.320 Why can't Nate Silver just like run like Trump's casino 2:21:28.480 --> 2:21:31.440 or something? Right, this is just like just like put 2:21:31.520 --> 2:21:31.920 him away. 2:21:32.720 --> 2:21:35.920 I understand if Nate because Nate's rich, he doesn't need 2:21:36.080 --> 2:21:38.080 to do the other stuff. And if he was like 2:21:38.440 --> 2:21:41.039 just doing sports betting analysis forever, I'd be like, well, 2:21:41.320 --> 2:21:42.000 that's what he loves. 2:21:42.160 --> 2:21:42.280 Right. 2:21:42.640 --> 2:21:45.000 If I had Nate's Silver money, I'd probably just write 2:21:45.040 --> 2:21:47.120 novels for the rest of my life because that's what 2:21:47.240 --> 2:21:50.040 I like to do. I don't understand why he keeps 2:21:50.080 --> 2:21:52.640 writing about politics. He's not good at it, and he 2:21:52.760 --> 2:21:55.080 can't like it. He needs to feel special. 2:21:55.160 --> 2:21:58.160 He wants to feel like a special boy who knows 2:21:58.200 --> 2:21:59.640 the answers that no one else does. 2:22:00.400 --> 2:22:03.280 All right, Well, anyway, this is us making fun of 2:22:03.400 --> 2:22:05.520 Nate Silver, so you don't Well, you can still make 2:22:05.560 --> 2:22:06.960 fun of him, but you don't have to read him. 2:22:07.040 --> 2:22:08.480 We did that for you. Good night. 2:22:31.360 --> 2:22:35.039 This is It could happen here Executive Disorder, our weekly 2:22:35.120 --> 2:22:38.279 newscast covering what's happening in the White House, the crumbling 2:22:38.480 --> 2:22:41.200 of the world, and what it means for you. I'm 2:22:41.240 --> 2:22:44.520 Garrison Davis today I'm joined by Mia Wong and Robert Evans. 2:22:45.200 --> 2:22:49.000 This episode recovering the week of March five to March twelve. 2:22:49.760 --> 2:22:53.160 Trump films a Tesla commercial, RFK Junior eats beef tallow 2:22:53.200 --> 2:22:56.160 French fries at Steak and Shake, and Sam Sedter commits 2:22:56.200 --> 2:22:59.960 a mass casualty event on YouTube. How's everyone doing today? 2:23:00.000 --> 2:23:02.880 I'm very happy to join you for ED this week. 2:23:03.200 --> 2:23:06.760 Huge fan of ED, just like just big big ED guy, 2:23:07.000 --> 2:23:09.040 So yeah, psyched to be here. I feel like we 2:23:09.080 --> 2:23:09.960 should mention up top. 2:23:10.000 --> 2:23:12.640 There's also a bunch of unhinged tariff news and the 2:23:12.840 --> 2:23:17.000 most like electing fucking Caliguli's horse to the Senate thing 2:23:17.040 --> 2:23:19.400 I've seen in a long time, So stay tuned for that. 2:23:19.760 --> 2:23:20.640 Lots of good stuff. 2:23:21.160 --> 2:23:22.440 Yes, we will get to it. 2:23:22.920 --> 2:23:24.320 First, I would like to give a little bit of 2:23:24.360 --> 2:23:27.360 an update on a story that we talked about a 2:23:27.400 --> 2:23:32.160 few days ago, the detention and the revocation of a 2:23:32.200 --> 2:23:37.600 green card for a Palestinian activist Mamood Khalil. As of Wednesday, 2:23:38.240 --> 2:23:42.279 his lawyers have still been unable to even contact their client. 2:23:42.959 --> 2:23:46.000 There was a large rally outside the First Court conference 2:23:46.160 --> 2:23:49.320 in New York this Wednesday. So we talked about this 2:23:49.560 --> 2:23:52.360 a few days ago for some background, an episode with 2:23:52.600 --> 2:23:55.960 James Robert and myself. Robert, do you want to like 2:23:56.040 --> 2:23:59.320 briefly summarize the situation, and then I'll play a clip 2:23:59.440 --> 2:24:00.800 from one of his lawyers. 2:24:01.200 --> 2:24:05.279 The situation is that this guy got taken into custody. 2:24:05.920 --> 2:24:08.800 My understanding is it was at an apartment that he 2:24:08.879 --> 2:24:11.160 lived in with his wife. He was a US citizen. 2:24:11.959 --> 2:24:14.560 He became aware, it looks like at least about twenty 2:24:14.640 --> 2:24:17.320 four hours before probably became aware that he was being 2:24:17.720 --> 2:24:19.040 It's a little clear if he was just like being 2:24:19.120 --> 2:24:21.040 surveilled or there was something else that tipped them off. 2:24:21.080 --> 2:24:23.960 But he contacted the school asking for help, convinced that 2:24:24.160 --> 2:24:26.760 Ice was coming for him about a day before they 2:24:26.879 --> 2:24:31.040 did when they entered the house. My understanding is based 2:24:31.080 --> 2:24:34.240 on the claims being made by his wife that they 2:24:34.400 --> 2:24:37.120 did not like, they didn't like produce a warrant or anything. 2:24:37.240 --> 2:24:38.680 He's still not charged with any crime. 2:24:38.840 --> 2:24:40.680 No, he's not been charged with any crime. They just 2:24:40.840 --> 2:24:43.240 took him and turned off the phone when they were 2:24:43.320 --> 2:24:46.520 on the phone to their lawyers, if I'm remembering correctly. Correct, 2:24:46.640 --> 2:24:48.480 So it's like none of this is the way this 2:24:48.640 --> 2:24:51.840 should have gone, Like if this was an arrest, no. 2:24:52.000 --> 2:24:54.320 He was just like black bagged from campus. 2:24:55.000 --> 2:24:57.200 But it's not an arrest again, and they've been very 2:24:57.280 --> 2:25:00.200 clear about this that, like they have specifically stated not 2:25:00.280 --> 2:25:03.400 accusing him of like breaking the law, right, Like, that's 2:25:03.800 --> 2:25:04.560 not what's going on. 2:25:04.720 --> 2:25:07.000 Here, correct, And we will get to some of that later. 2:25:07.200 --> 2:25:08.800 I'm going to play a clip from a press conference 2:25:08.879 --> 2:25:12.840 outside court that happened on Wednesday, March twelfth. 2:25:13.120 --> 2:25:16.800 This is one of his lawyers, Mister Khalil's detention has 2:25:16.879 --> 2:25:18.600 nothing to do with security. 2:25:19.240 --> 2:25:21.560 It is only about repression. 2:25:23.360 --> 2:25:26.600 The United States government has taken the position that it 2:25:26.680 --> 2:25:31.400 can arrest, detain, and seek to deport a lawful, permanent 2:25:31.520 --> 2:25:39.280 resident exclusively because of his peaceful, constitutionally protected activism, in 2:25:39.400 --> 2:25:43.920 this case, activism in support of Palestinian human rights and 2:25:44.120 --> 2:25:49.600 an end to the genocide in Gaza. The government takes 2:25:49.640 --> 2:25:53.920 the position that because the Secretary of State finds his 2:25:54.520 --> 2:26:04.160 descent unacceptable, contrary to US foreign policy, he can be deported. 2:26:04.800 --> 2:26:11.519 As Romsey suggested, it's largely unprecedented save for ugly historical precedents, 2:26:12.160 --> 2:26:14.920 including the Red Scare and McCarthyism. 2:26:15.400 --> 2:26:16.760 That's what we're talking about. 2:26:17.240 --> 2:26:20.560 We're also talking about a period of repression that the 2:26:20.640 --> 2:26:24.280 Center for Constitutional Rights knows well following nine to eleven, 2:26:24.920 --> 2:26:28.640 when we were in the courts trying to get people 2:26:28.720 --> 2:26:32.560 out of secret detention. One thing that's different now is 2:26:33.000 --> 2:26:36.840 the legal infrastructure is so much stronger, and everyone out 2:26:36.920 --> 2:26:40.440 here on the streets knows that we cannot hide in 2:26:40.520 --> 2:26:43.720 the face of this amount of repression. We will be 2:26:43.840 --> 2:26:47.440 fighting in the courts and fighting in the streets to 2:26:47.560 --> 2:26:53.840 bring Mahmoud home and prevent this level of repression from spreading. 2:26:55.640 --> 2:26:58.440 To many others, as the administration has threatened to do. 2:27:00.160 --> 2:27:04.000 Was on Wednesday. For now, a Khalil will be remaining 2:27:04.160 --> 2:27:08.480 in ICED attention in Louisiana, and ICE director Tom Homan 2:27:08.879 --> 2:27:15.440 said Wednesday that quote, free speech has its limitations. Unquote Yeah. 2:27:16.440 --> 2:27:18.920 I have found some stuff today of people on the 2:27:19.000 --> 2:27:22.480 right attacking the judge who put out a I guess 2:27:22.560 --> 2:27:25.560 called a stay on this in part because the judge 2:27:25.760 --> 2:27:29.720 is Jewish, so it's nice to see the anti Semitism 2:27:29.840 --> 2:27:33.480 being used in that way as well in this instance. 2:27:34.200 --> 2:27:37.440 Just fascinating. We're really breaking new ground in all of this. 2:27:38.080 --> 2:27:40.680 A White House official did tell friend of the pod 2:27:41.040 --> 2:27:44.800 the Free Press not necessarily our favorite publication, but they 2:27:44.840 --> 2:27:47.200 do have an exclusive quote here that the basis for 2:27:47.240 --> 2:27:49.800 targeting Khalil is being used as a blueprint for investigations 2:27:49.800 --> 2:27:53.680 against other students, saying Khalil is quote a threat to 2:27:53.840 --> 2:27:57.360 the foreign policy and national security interests of the United 2:27:57.360 --> 2:28:01.080 States unquote. Said the official that this calculation was the 2:28:01.200 --> 2:28:04.680 driving force behind the arrest, saying, quote, the allegation here 2:28:04.800 --> 2:28:07.400 is not that he was breaking the law. So we 2:28:07.520 --> 2:28:10.680 have this official like openly say, like, he's not charged 2:28:10.720 --> 2:28:12.640 with the crime. We're just wanting to see if we 2:28:12.760 --> 2:28:15.720 can do this. Can we deport a legal permanent resident 2:28:15.760 --> 2:28:17.400 for saying something that we don't like? 2:28:17.760 --> 2:28:19.120 Yeah, And I think that there's been a lot of 2:28:19.160 --> 2:28:22.040 comparisons to this to direct Macarthyism. I think that's accurate 2:28:22.080 --> 2:28:24.000 to some extent. I think the most direct comparison to 2:28:24.040 --> 2:28:27.280 this is not Macarthyism. It's the Palmer Raids, yep, which 2:28:27.280 --> 2:28:29.480 I think people tend to be way less familiar with. 2:28:29.560 --> 2:28:31.840 That was the first Red Scare, which was largely targeted 2:28:31.840 --> 2:28:33.840 at the industrial workers of the world for their opposition 2:28:33.959 --> 2:28:37.240 to World War One, and they did basically the same shit. 2:28:37.240 --> 2:28:38.840 A lot of people would give anti war speeches and 2:28:38.879 --> 2:28:41.800 then a whole bunch of IWW organizers and other sort 2:28:41.800 --> 2:28:45.720 of like leftists would get fucking deported for it. So yeah, 2:28:45.800 --> 2:28:49.160 that was a absolutely terrifying period of repression. If the 2:28:49.240 --> 2:28:51.240 line is not drawn here, and it should have been 2:28:51.320 --> 2:28:54.160 drawn like two hundred miles back from here, but if 2:28:54.200 --> 2:28:55.039 isn't drawn here, this is. 2:28:55.040 --> 2:28:55.640 Going to continue. 2:28:55.680 --> 2:28:56.960 This is going to continue to get worse. 2:28:57.600 --> 2:28:59.840 And I mean all of this is in relation to 2:29:00.120 --> 2:29:04.760 Trump's executive order, you know about quote unquote anti Semitism. Meanwhile, 2:29:04.920 --> 2:29:08.119 today in the Oval Office he said something incredibly anti 2:29:08.200 --> 2:29:11.040 Semitic and also anti Arab somehow, like in this same 2:29:11.120 --> 2:29:14.920 statement saying, quote, Schumer is a Palestinian as far as 2:29:14.959 --> 2:29:19.000 I'm concerned, he's become a Palestinian. He used to be Jewish, 2:29:19.320 --> 2:29:24.200 He's not Jewish anymore. He's a Palestinian unquote, which is 2:29:24.320 --> 2:29:28.840 just an unbelievably anti Semitic and anti Arab statement all 2:29:28.959 --> 2:29:33.520 at once, like removing someone's Jewishness because of how they 2:29:33.680 --> 2:29:36.080 act or things they've said, or things they believe in. 2:29:36.680 --> 2:29:38.720 Yeah, and it's one of those things. Again, Like it's 2:29:38.760 --> 2:29:41.520 worth like covering this as it develops. There's not much 2:29:41.560 --> 2:29:43.760 to say other than like this is incredibly illegal and 2:29:43.879 --> 2:29:46.800 has to be opposed immediately and vigorously. 2:29:47.440 --> 2:29:50.400 Like yeah, yeah, no, it's really bad. And of course 2:29:50.440 --> 2:29:52.440 you're not gonna have the ADL coming out against Trump. 2:29:52.440 --> 2:29:55.640 HEO, the acl you did, which I should note because 2:29:55.640 --> 2:29:57.600 I heard some people saying they did not expect the 2:29:57.680 --> 2:30:00.920 ACLU too they have. But yeah, the ADL is fully 2:30:00.959 --> 2:30:02.800 in the camp of Lockgin, who won up who's ever 2:30:02.879 --> 2:30:04.279 protested Israel. 2:30:04.520 --> 2:30:06.360 And they're not going to call Trump Andie Semitic for 2:30:06.440 --> 2:30:10.000 making a statement like this, Yeah, because their interests are 2:30:10.320 --> 2:30:13.600 fairly aligned at this point. Read what's happening in Gaza. 2:30:14.240 --> 2:30:16.800 So I think now we're going to play a special 2:30:16.879 --> 2:30:19.640 report from James, who can't be on the recording here today, 2:30:19.840 --> 2:30:24.080 but he does have a report on deportations in Panama. 2:30:24.600 --> 2:30:26.200 So James take it away. 2:30:26.760 --> 2:30:29.320 So something that we've seen in the last week is 2:30:29.400 --> 2:30:32.920 that the people who the US government has deported to Panama, 2:30:32.959 --> 2:30:35.720 who it can't deport to their home countries, have in 2:30:35.800 --> 2:30:38.320 some cases been released by the Panamanian government and given 2:30:38.560 --> 2:30:42.560 a thirty day visa or thirty days to essentially exit Panama, 2:30:43.280 --> 2:30:45.920 and they're not really been given any support. So they're 2:30:45.920 --> 2:30:47.640 in some cases like just sleeping on the streets in 2:30:47.680 --> 2:30:50.680 Panama City, right just wandering around trying to work out 2:30:50.720 --> 2:30:53.480 how to get home and trying to work out like 2:30:53.680 --> 2:30:57.120 what they should do next. Obviously, these people who have 2:30:57.240 --> 2:31:00.600 fled places like Afghanistan, Iran right where they can't go 2:31:00.720 --> 2:31:03.199 back to they would face persecution just for the act 2:31:03.959 --> 2:31:06.400 of having tried to lead, and they weren't already facing 2:31:06.480 --> 2:31:08.879 persecution before, which many of them were. That that's why 2:31:08.920 --> 2:31:12.240 they fled. So they've just kind of kicked it down 2:31:12.320 --> 2:31:15.320 the road a little bit and we'll see where this leads. 2:31:15.480 --> 2:31:19.440 But it's another piece of evidence that this wasn't hugely 2:31:19.520 --> 2:31:21.720 well planned, that the Trump administration just wanted to get 2:31:21.760 --> 2:31:24.119 these deportation numbers up at almost any cost. 2:31:25.200 --> 2:31:27.160 Right, We're gonna go on a break and come back 2:31:27.200 --> 2:31:30.760 to talk about the Department of Education and Tariff talk 2:31:30.879 --> 2:31:31.600 with mi A Walng. 2:31:44.040 --> 2:31:44.280 Wow. 2:31:44.640 --> 2:31:48.760 Well we're are back, and you know it's everyone's favorite 2:31:48.840 --> 2:31:54.160 time of the podcast talking about tariffs. And before we 2:31:54.280 --> 2:31:56.840 get to Mia, I want to bring on a musical 2:31:56.920 --> 2:31:59.199 guest to set this section of the program up. 2:32:00.840 --> 2:32:12.600 Lock Locking jazz, Rocky jazz bot sorry lot locking jazz bo. 2:32:12.959 --> 2:32:18.720 Locky jazz bob ah. Yeah, Oh my gosh. That was 2:32:18.879 --> 2:32:22.600 worth the rest of our year's budget. Now everyone will 2:32:22.680 --> 2:32:24.600 be getting paid for the rest of the year in 2:32:24.800 --> 2:32:27.920 Denny's coupons. That's all we have left after paying for this. 2:32:28.120 --> 2:32:30.360 But I think we can all agree worth it. 2:32:30.680 --> 2:32:32.440 Do you want to explain what that is because I 2:32:32.640 --> 2:32:37.520 still don't really have a clue what exactly that opening 2:32:37.600 --> 2:32:39.080 theme song is for tariff talk. 2:32:39.480 --> 2:32:41.920 Well, there was a great band called The Clash once 2:32:42.000 --> 2:32:44.640 and they wrote one song that wasn't very good, and 2:32:45.240 --> 2:32:47.959 in it somebody says something that didn't sound very much 2:32:48.040 --> 2:32:51.240 like the word tariff, but if you mispronounce the word tariff, 2:32:51.320 --> 2:32:55.160 it fit in. And that's where forty two thousand dollars 2:32:55.240 --> 2:32:57.840 of our operating budget this year went. Anyway, Mia, let's 2:32:57.879 --> 2:32:58.760 talk about tariff's. 2:32:59.000 --> 2:33:01.080 Yeah, now that I've they've gotten one of the two 2:33:01.120 --> 2:33:03.800 things I've ever wanted in life, play on music. So 2:33:05.480 --> 2:33:08.800 since last week this has been an entire roller coaster 2:33:08.920 --> 2:33:11.760 because right after we finished recording, in like the next 2:33:11.840 --> 2:33:14.200 two days, everyone went, oh, the tariffs aren't going to 2:33:14.240 --> 2:33:16.040 be that bad, because a lot of the tariffs that 2:33:16.080 --> 2:33:19.119 were hit with Trump sort of general twenty five percent 2:33:19.200 --> 2:33:21.880 Canada Mexico tariff got wave after Trump agreed not to 2:33:21.920 --> 2:33:25.680 apply them to goods covered by the USMCA free trade agreements. 2:33:26.680 --> 2:33:30.160 But then everyone remembered that the twenty five percent steel 2:33:30.200 --> 2:33:32.360 in a lune of tariff was still going into effect, 2:33:32.520 --> 2:33:35.400 and so that went into effect this week. Now, there 2:33:35.560 --> 2:33:38.360 was also a brief, incredible moment of panic where Trump 2:33:38.480 --> 2:33:41.440 was talking about doubling them to fifty percents. He backs 2:33:41.480 --> 2:33:44.400 off of this in exchange for Ontario's dug Ford stopping 2:33:44.600 --> 2:33:48.240 a like twenty five percent increase in electricity prices. However, 2:33:48.560 --> 2:33:52.040 come the trade war is one hundred percent still on. 2:33:52.400 --> 2:33:54.640 Canada is doing a whole like sort of slate of 2:33:54.680 --> 2:33:58.800 reciprocal tariffs specifically on steel and also terriffs and taxes 2:33:58.920 --> 2:34:02.120 on a whole suite of other US goods. I'm just 2:34:02.160 --> 2:34:04.400 gonna read this from the Associated Press because this is 2:34:04.480 --> 2:34:07.120 no longer the trade war here is no longer limited 2:34:07.200 --> 2:34:10.000 to the US, Canada, China, and to some extp Mexico. 2:34:10.080 --> 2:34:13.880 For Mexico's really hasn't been responding in the same way 2:34:14.000 --> 2:34:16.680 as basically every other country who's come under these tariffs, 2:34:16.800 --> 2:34:18.840 or at least the sort of main focuses of these tariffs. 2:34:19.720 --> 2:34:22.280 But this week the EU officially joined the phrase. So 2:34:22.360 --> 2:34:25.440 here's from the AP quote across the Atlantic, the European 2:34:25.520 --> 2:34:29.920 Union will raise tariffs on American beef, poultry, bourbon, and motorcycles. 2:34:30.400 --> 2:34:31.320 Bourbon again. 2:34:32.600 --> 2:34:33.920 Yeah, yeah, Bourbon twice. 2:34:34.280 --> 2:34:35.440 Yeah, Bourbon twice. 2:34:35.440 --> 2:34:36.960 It's twice as important as the other thing. 2:34:37.440 --> 2:34:39.800 Yes, peanut butter and jeans. Actually you say this, There 2:34:39.920 --> 2:34:43.040 was a whole like part of the whole speech that 2:34:43.160 --> 2:34:45.520 was not a joke. Maya people the EU would like this. 2:34:45.640 --> 2:34:47.080 This was this was part of the thing. Was yeah, like, 2:34:47.120 --> 2:34:49.760 we're hoping to restore the profitability of the American spirits 2:34:49.840 --> 2:34:51.280 markets with the US backs down. 2:34:51.640 --> 2:34:54.320 It was also the only American product that Trudeau can 2:34:54.400 --> 2:34:55.400 named during his big. 2:34:55.920 --> 2:34:59.920 Very funny, let's be honest, outside of music, this name 2:35:00.240 --> 2:35:02.360 has produced one thing of value to the world, and 2:35:02.440 --> 2:35:03.000 it's Bourbon. 2:35:04.440 --> 2:35:06.600 Pretty reasonable. It's also very funny that it was like 2:35:06.840 --> 2:35:09.600 Bourbon was like our what attempts number was it at 2:35:09.680 --> 2:35:14.359 making whiskey before we finally got one that was like exportable. 2:35:14.959 --> 2:35:17.920 Terrible, I mean yeah, it took it took generations. Look, 2:35:18.040 --> 2:35:21.120 you know, Rome wasn't built in the day, and bourbon 2:35:21.320 --> 2:35:23.760 is the ream of liquors produced in Kentucky. 2:35:24.160 --> 2:35:26.039 Yeah. Well, and speaking of it being produced in Kentucky, 2:35:26.240 --> 2:35:29.320 this is actually deliberately Okay, well, all right, so the 2:35:29.360 --> 2:35:31.800 EU in theory, the line that they're saying is that 2:35:31.879 --> 2:35:35.879 these are deliberately designed to like target things that are 2:35:35.920 --> 2:35:40.480 made in Red States. They also did do soybean tariffs too, though, 2:35:40.840 --> 2:35:44.920 which is, you know, like you're dropping a new kin 2:35:45.000 --> 2:35:48.000 Illinois here. Okay, So, the EU as and post reciprocal 2:35:48.040 --> 2:35:51.600 tariffs on twenty eight billion dollars of US goods. Also 2:35:51.920 --> 2:35:54.960 on Tuesday, China's tariffs went into effect, which means the 2:35:55.040 --> 2:35:57.280 agricultural terrifts that we talked about last week, and notably 2:35:57.320 --> 2:35:59.320 I keep coming back to soybeans because soybeans are such 2:35:59.320 --> 2:36:02.120 a critical part of the system of American agriculture as 2:36:02.200 --> 2:36:03.959 the crop that you rotate out with coren to sort 2:36:04.000 --> 2:36:07.039 of like preserve soil integrity. The Chinese tariffs are now 2:36:07.360 --> 2:36:11.960 in effect, it's mostly on agricultural goods. Yeah, and this 2:36:12.520 --> 2:36:15.440 has I think in ways that are pretty predictable, at 2:36:15.520 --> 2:36:19.080 least to me. This has caused a lot of panic 2:36:19.160 --> 2:36:21.520 in the markets. There's been some sort of rallying as 2:36:21.600 --> 2:36:24.560 like more information comes in, but there's stuff that I 2:36:25.000 --> 2:36:29.160 did not predict, which is so okay. Goldman Sachs has 2:36:29.240 --> 2:36:33.039 downgraded its projection for us GDP growth. Their chief economist 2:36:33.080 --> 2:36:34.440 is talking about how he thinks we're going to get 2:36:34.440 --> 2:36:37.640 stagflation again, which is sort of While cyclation was the 2:36:37.720 --> 2:36:40.320 thing in the seventies that was, you know, like you 2:36:40.400 --> 2:36:42.960 have inflation and unemployment growth at the same time, this 2:36:43.360 --> 2:36:46.560 is basically the economic condition that liquidated the welfare state 2:36:46.760 --> 2:36:48.440 and allowed to write take power in the first place. 2:36:48.560 --> 2:36:50.800 That's funny because when I google stag inflation, I get 2:36:50.959 --> 2:36:54.560 very different results. That could just be my own No. 2:36:54.840 --> 2:36:58.360 That's that's stagfilation, Garrison, two very different things. 2:36:58.800 --> 2:37:03.040 Oh sorry, yeah, I think think, I think I'm anyway, 2:37:04.560 --> 2:37:05.000 the things I. 2:37:05.080 --> 2:37:08.000 Have to deal with on this job, they never warned 2:37:08.040 --> 2:37:11.760 me every single time. It's true, it's true, it's true. 2:37:11.800 --> 2:37:12.080 This is this. 2:37:12.240 --> 2:37:13.640 This makes up for a lot if you ever get 2:37:13.680 --> 2:37:15.800 to fight the undertaker. You have a song to go 2:37:15.959 --> 2:37:16.320 on too. 2:37:16.760 --> 2:37:20.400 It's true. So okay now now, so it's sort of 2:37:20.520 --> 2:37:23.640 more surprisingly And this is something I have literally never 2:37:23.720 --> 2:37:27.520 seen before with the US. Both City Bank, while City 2:37:27.560 --> 2:37:29.840 which is the over the City Bank like changed his 2:37:29.959 --> 2:37:33.480 name to City or something. But City Bank and ubs 2:37:33.600 --> 2:37:38.200 the giants Swiss Bank downgraded the status of all US equities. 2:37:38.480 --> 2:37:40.800 I have never seen anything like this in my entire life. 2:37:40.840 --> 2:37:44.400 They are also boosting the status of Chinese and EU equity. 2:37:44.440 --> 2:37:46.880 So this is basically like this doesn't have like a 2:37:47.000 --> 2:37:50.160 technical official effect, but this is like this is basically 2:37:50.360 --> 2:37:55.840 their their evaluation of what countries like stocks basically you 2:37:55.879 --> 2:37:58.080 should purchase right And this is also sort of applies 2:37:58.120 --> 2:38:03.600 to bonds, So is that bad? This is like I 2:38:03.760 --> 2:38:06.320 assume that the US would get its actual credit rating 2:38:06.879 --> 2:38:10.199 devalued before this happens. I've never this is this is unreal. 2:38:10.640 --> 2:38:12.280 Like the argument that they are making here is that 2:38:12.360 --> 2:38:14.720 it is because of the instability in the US, like 2:38:14.920 --> 2:38:16.879 because because of the tariffs and because of everything that's 2:38:16.920 --> 2:38:19.720 going on, that like you should just fucking pull your 2:38:19.760 --> 2:38:21.640 money out of the out of the US and American 2:38:21.640 --> 2:38:24.040 companies and put it somewhere else, and they're they're specifically 2:38:24.120 --> 2:38:27.920 boosting the status of Chinese and EU equities, which is 2:38:28.120 --> 2:38:31.000 astonishing because again one of one of the one of 2:38:31.040 --> 2:38:33.160 the countries again who's whose equity status that they are 2:38:33.200 --> 2:38:36.000 boosting is China. China's economy is a fucking disaster right now. 2:38:36.040 --> 2:38:38.760 They're dealing with like their fucking housing bubble going under. 2:38:39.080 --> 2:38:40.760 They've been trying to do this pivot to a consumer 2:38:40.800 --> 2:38:42.920 based economy for years and years and years and years, 2:38:42.959 --> 2:38:44.840 and it doesn't work because they don't pay people enough 2:38:45.320 --> 2:38:49.160 to actually like fuel an economy consumer spending. Like they're 2:38:49.360 --> 2:38:51.280 you know, they're they're about to take giant damage from 2:38:51.320 --> 2:38:53.000 the trade war. And also they like you know, like 2:38:53.080 --> 2:38:55.080 it was only like three years ago the CCP faced 2:38:55.120 --> 2:38:58.760 their first like nationwide mass protests like since Tianamen, right, 2:38:59.280 --> 2:39:01.920 and these guys like and again these these are the 2:39:01.959 --> 2:39:05.440 financial analysts of City Bank and ubs have looked at 2:39:05.640 --> 2:39:08.360 that and went, you are better off putting your money 2:39:08.440 --> 2:39:11.080 there than you are putting it in the US. I mean, 2:39:11.320 --> 2:39:13.800 at this point, I think Trump's tariffs have wiped out 2:39:14.440 --> 2:39:17.560 I'm reading four trillion from the US stock market just 2:39:17.600 --> 2:39:18.560 in this past month. 2:39:18.720 --> 2:39:19.920 Now now trillion. 2:39:20.200 --> 2:39:22.000 Is that? Okay? 2:39:22.080 --> 2:39:25.600 So for example, I have thirty two dollars right now 2:39:25.840 --> 2:39:28.760 in my pocket. Is it more than that? I think 2:39:28.800 --> 2:39:31.240 it's a little bit more, Okay, Okay, okay, so it 2:39:31.760 --> 2:39:36.280 is enough to buy two different servings of pizza. Okay, 2:39:36.600 --> 2:39:38.240 this is I'm trying to put this into terms I 2:39:38.280 --> 2:39:39.280 can understand, Thank you. 2:39:39.720 --> 2:39:39.960 It is. 2:39:40.280 --> 2:39:42.600 Imagine imagine one burger, right. 2:39:42.600 --> 2:39:45.279 And a burger in Portland does cost thirty two dollars? 2:39:45.400 --> 2:39:49.080 So yes, yes, Now now imagine I thought you're gonna say, 2:39:50.240 --> 2:39:52.080 does cost four trillion dollars? 2:39:52.760 --> 2:39:55.480 I mean probably tomorrow, right, like kudos. I don't know 2:39:55.560 --> 2:39:58.359 if any plagues. 2:39:58.000 --> 2:40:01.160 That we're doing adding levity because this is it legitimately 2:40:01.280 --> 2:40:01.959 kind of frightening. 2:40:02.560 --> 2:40:05.680 No, like this is I have never seen the financial 2:40:05.720 --> 2:40:07.800 press like yes, like the only times I've ever seen 2:40:07.840 --> 2:40:09.960 the financial press react to something like this is like 2:40:11.280 --> 2:40:14.240 they were kind of acting like this about the possibility 2:40:14.280 --> 2:40:17.640 of Jeremy Corbin like taking power in the UK, like 2:40:18.120 --> 2:40:22.440 they are like I watched a guy on CNBC, right, 2:40:22.600 --> 2:40:25.240 this is not like like this is this is not MSNBC. 2:40:25.440 --> 2:40:28.560 This is not even like CNN. This is CNBC literally 2:40:28.680 --> 2:40:31.080 go on air and call what Trump is doing quote 2:40:31.160 --> 2:40:34.280 insane and start talking about how this is and this 2:40:34.320 --> 2:40:35.760 is I think what these people are worried about is 2:40:35.840 --> 2:40:38.000 they're you know, the thing that they're seeing that's starting 2:40:38.080 --> 2:40:39.480 right now, and it's starting with these sort of these 2:40:39.520 --> 2:40:43.400 downgrades US equities is capital flight, which is straight up 2:40:43.480 --> 2:40:46.080 a butt like international capital taking their money from the 2:40:46.240 --> 2:40:48.280 US and fucking literally moving out of the country and 2:40:48.320 --> 2:40:50.320 moving at somewhere else because the US is so unstable. 2:40:50.959 --> 2:40:54.000 This is like, I don't know if anyone knows what 2:40:54.440 --> 2:40:57.920 mass capital flight from the US would do, because I've 2:40:58.000 --> 2:41:00.800 never seen anything like this. So part of what's going 2:41:00.800 --> 2:41:02.160 on right and part of the reason the markets have 2:41:02.240 --> 2:41:03.960 kind of recovered in the last few days after the 2:41:04.200 --> 2:41:07.440 tanking they did Monday is that, like the inflation data 2:41:07.520 --> 2:41:09.400 came out and it wasn't that bad. But the thing is, 2:41:09.560 --> 2:41:11.160 all of the inflation data we're getting right now and 2:41:11.200 --> 2:41:14.039 all of the economic indicators we're getting right now, it's 2:41:14.080 --> 2:41:16.200 going to take a little bit of time for the 2:41:16.320 --> 2:41:19.280 actual effects of these tariffs to set in, right Like 2:41:19.360 --> 2:41:21.160 these are these are things that like you know, it's 2:41:21.160 --> 2:41:22.920 going to take It's going to take like six months, 2:41:23.000 --> 2:41:25.120 maybe a year before we fully see the impacts of that, 2:41:25.240 --> 2:41:27.120 and but and when we do, it is going to 2:41:27.240 --> 2:41:30.440 fucking lawsmoking creator into the economy. And the worst part 2:41:30.480 --> 2:41:32.160 of it about this is this isn't even the most 2:41:32.280 --> 2:41:35.320 unhinged part of this. The most unhinged part of this 2:41:35.560 --> 2:41:37.400 is how the Republicans have been reacting to all of 2:41:37.440 --> 2:41:40.200 this in Congress. So one of the few things the 2:41:40.240 --> 2:41:42.520 Democrats have been trying to do, and I say one 2:41:42.560 --> 2:41:46.080 of the few because like the response has been downright collaborationists, 2:41:46.360 --> 2:41:48.640 but they've been trying to force Republicans to take a 2:41:48.760 --> 2:41:52.800 vote on the tariffs because the tariffs are unbelievably unpopular, 2:41:54.080 --> 2:41:58.720 and they're particularly unbelievably unpopular among like the capital owning class, 2:41:58.760 --> 2:42:01.120 who you know, actually matter. So what they've been trying 2:42:01.120 --> 2:42:03.840 to do is that Trump did these tariffs by declaring 2:42:03.879 --> 2:42:06.200 a state of emergency, and the Democrats wanted to use 2:42:06.240 --> 2:42:08.640 the National Emergencies Act to force to vote in the tariffs. 2:42:08.640 --> 2:42:10.040 I'm just going to read this in the New York Times. 2:42:10.640 --> 2:42:13.400 The National Emergency Law lays out a fast track process 2:42:13.520 --> 2:42:16.960 for Congress to consider a resolution ending a presidential emergency, 2:42:17.560 --> 2:42:22.320 requiring committee consideration within fifteen calendar days after one is 2:42:22.360 --> 2:42:24.920 introduced and a floor vote within three days after that. 2:42:25.959 --> 2:42:28.720 But the language the House Republicans inserted into their measure 2:42:28.800 --> 2:42:32.360 on Tuesday declare that quote, each day for the remainder 2:42:32.480 --> 2:42:35.560 of the one hundred and nineteenth Congress shall not constitute 2:42:35.600 --> 2:42:38.720 a calendar day for the purposes of the emergency that 2:42:38.800 --> 2:42:42.200 Trump declared on February first. So the point we are 2:42:42.240 --> 2:42:44.720 at right now is is, in order to preserve a 2:42:44.800 --> 2:42:47.840 bunch of tariffs which are effectively about to fucking obliterate 2:42:47.879 --> 2:42:51.959 the entire world economy, Congress has declared that days don't pass. 2:42:54.200 --> 2:42:57.199 This is fucking this is completely unhinged. This is fucking 2:42:57.280 --> 2:42:59.560 like caligulous horse in the Senate ship like they again, 2:42:59.720 --> 2:43:04.600 they are literally, they've literally declared that calendar days passing 2:43:04.720 --> 2:43:07.120 are not actually calendar days, so that Trump can just 2:43:07.240 --> 2:43:10.760 keep doing tariffs shit and rule by fiat like the Israelites. 2:43:10.800 --> 2:43:14.000 They have stopped time in order to win the battle. 2:43:15.400 --> 2:43:19.080 It's it's genuinely astonishing. And the extent to which this 2:43:19.160 --> 2:43:20.840 has kind of just been swept under the rug. The 2:43:20.879 --> 2:43:23.280 Republicans have been, you know, doing this kind of quietly, right, 2:43:23.720 --> 2:43:26.400 and and and the fact that like the fact that 2:43:26.520 --> 2:43:29.920 Democrats are not literally on TV every single second of 2:43:29.959 --> 2:43:32.360 every day going that the Republicans are voting to stop 2:43:32.440 --> 2:43:35.640 time so that Trump can destroy the economy is astonishing. 2:43:36.320 --> 2:43:40.080 It's this real like sort of admission by the Republican 2:43:40.160 --> 2:43:43.000 Congress that like they're seating authority over policy like to 2:43:43.120 --> 2:43:45.960 Trump completely right, Like the government now is Trump ruling 2:43:46.000 --> 2:43:48.640 by sort of fiat and people attempting to sort of 2:43:48.680 --> 2:43:50.640 like run circles around him in courts, which is not 2:43:50.959 --> 2:43:54.000 you know, working enormously Well, yeah, I we'll see and 2:43:54.160 --> 2:43:55.920 and you know, and this, this, this is starting to 2:43:56.000 --> 2:44:01.360 have effects on like investor confidence like in the US 2:44:01.440 --> 2:44:03.840 as a political entity and the US is an economic entity, 2:44:03.840 --> 2:44:06.520 which is unprecedented. The other thing I think it's worth 2:44:06.800 --> 2:44:09.800 noting is that these people like Elin Mus, Donald Trump 2:44:09.879 --> 2:44:11.720 the people around them have been saying for a long 2:44:11.840 --> 2:44:14.360 time that the plan is to cause a recession and 2:44:14.400 --> 2:44:16.119 then after the recession things are going to get better, 2:44:16.160 --> 2:44:21.120 and the financial pressures hasn't believed them. And this right 2:44:21.320 --> 2:44:24.200 now is the period in which they're starting to realize 2:44:24.400 --> 2:44:27.840 that they were serious about this. And I don't know 2:44:27.920 --> 2:44:30.520 what the political ramifications of that are going to be, 2:44:30.640 --> 2:44:33.640 because these are people who actually matter in the political system. 2:44:34.240 --> 2:44:36.560 And I think we'll see the ramlications of this play 2:44:36.600 --> 2:44:38.119 out and then the sort of coming weeks and months. 2:44:38.160 --> 2:44:40.240 But this is a fucking cliff that we've hit, and 2:44:40.320 --> 2:44:42.840 we're now like Wiley Coyote, like running off the side 2:44:42.840 --> 2:44:43.760 and trying not to look down. 2:44:44.160 --> 2:44:48.240 But on the upside, we have a great new song 2:44:48.400 --> 2:44:51.400 for everybody. So woo, who's to say if any of 2:44:51.480 --> 2:44:52.320 this has been bad? 2:45:04.040 --> 2:45:08.000 All right, we are back speaking of running circles around 2:45:08.040 --> 2:45:12.600 the courts. We do have a small update REUSA side. 2:45:14.040 --> 2:45:16.680 Last week, in a five to four vote, the Supreme 2:45:16.720 --> 2:45:19.840 Court denied an appeal from the Trump administration in a 2:45:19.879 --> 2:45:24.400 case regarding Trump's attempted federal funds freeze and the shuddering 2:45:24.480 --> 2:45:27.040 of USAID. This was a case filed by the AIDS 2:45:27.160 --> 2:45:31.080 Vaccine Advocacy Coalition and the Global Health Council. The White 2:45:31.080 --> 2:45:33.760 House is now required to pay foreign aid contractors for 2:45:33.840 --> 2:45:36.879 work that has already been completed, and further details will 2:45:36.879 --> 2:45:39.640 be worked out back in the district court. And it's 2:45:40.040 --> 2:45:42.560 still unclear, you know, if the Trump administration is going 2:45:42.600 --> 2:45:45.640 to abide by the court's ruling and resume all required payments. 2:45:46.240 --> 2:45:48.720 But this is the first move from the Supreme Court 2:45:49.520 --> 2:45:53.440 regarding you know, Trump's actions the past few months. This 2:45:53.560 --> 2:45:57.720 has also not stopped Trump from trying to slowly close 2:45:57.879 --> 2:46:02.080 other entire government agencies. This very week, the Education Department 2:46:02.160 --> 2:46:05.199 laid off nearly half of its workforce, over one thousand 2:46:05.240 --> 2:46:08.879 and three hundred employees. A late Tuesday night, Education Secretary 2:46:08.959 --> 2:46:11.480 Linda McMahon went onto Fox News to say that this 2:46:11.640 --> 2:46:14.720 reduction force is only the first step towards abolishing the 2:46:14.959 --> 2:46:19.640 entire Education Department, saying, quote, this was the president's mandate. 2:46:19.879 --> 2:46:22.800 His directive to me clearly is to shut down the 2:46:22.840 --> 2:46:25.800 Department of Education, which we know we'll have to work 2:46:25.840 --> 2:46:29.240 with Congress, you know, to get that accomplished. But what 2:46:29.400 --> 2:46:32.040 we did today was to take the first step of 2:46:32.120 --> 2:46:36.240 eliminating what I think is a bureaucratic bloat unquote. 2:46:37.080 --> 2:46:39.000 Yeah, and I mean, like, you know, we've talked about 2:46:39.000 --> 2:46:41.280 on the show for a long time, how eliminating Department 2:46:41.280 --> 2:46:43.920 of Education eventually destroying public education has been a long 2:46:44.000 --> 2:46:47.040 running goal. Oh yeah, of the most absolutely unhinged of 2:46:47.120 --> 2:46:50.000 these people who are the people now in charge, And yeah, 2:46:50.040 --> 2:46:53.440 they've decided to just like individually fuck every child in 2:46:53.520 --> 2:46:53.959 the US. 2:46:54.760 --> 2:46:58.240 It's incredible. Well, and so far, the way that they're 2:46:58.240 --> 2:47:00.680 trying to close up the Department of Education is kind 2:47:00.680 --> 2:47:04.840 of in a more selective manner because they're still keeping 2:47:04.920 --> 2:47:06.480 certain parts of the department active. 2:47:06.800 --> 2:47:07.039 Yeah. 2:47:07.440 --> 2:47:09.720 On March tenth, the Education Department announced that they were 2:47:09.800 --> 2:47:14.440 launching investigations into sixty universities for quote Title six violations 2:47:14.680 --> 2:47:18.320 relating to anti Semitic harassment and discrimination unquote. And this 2:47:18.480 --> 2:47:21.560 is in relation to anti genocide protests on campus. And 2:47:21.920 --> 2:47:25.920 this comes after Trump announced the immediate cancelation of four 2:47:26.040 --> 2:47:29.519 hundred million dollars in federal grants and contracts to Columbia University. 2:47:30.480 --> 2:47:33.920 The Education Department is threatening that these other fifty nine 2:47:34.160 --> 2:47:37.440 universities may lose their funding if they do not quote 2:47:37.879 --> 2:47:40.600 enforce Title six of the Civil Rights Act, which prohibits 2:47:40.640 --> 2:47:43.760 any institution that receives federal funds from discriminating on the 2:47:43.800 --> 2:47:47.920 basis of race, color, and national origin. National origin includes 2:47:48.120 --> 2:47:52.840 shared Jewish ancestry unquote. I don't know how to say here. 2:47:53.840 --> 2:47:56.320 You get to see all the threads of this admin 2:47:56.400 --> 2:47:58.520 coming together, right, which is that you know, these people 2:47:58.560 --> 2:48:01.080 are also attempting to effect if we destroy like the 2:48:01.120 --> 2:48:04.040 secondary education system in this country too, for reasons that 2:48:04.120 --> 2:48:05.520 are sort of unclear to me. 2:48:05.760 --> 2:48:06.120 I don't know. 2:48:06.879 --> 2:48:09.080 But what we're seeing here, right is the ways that 2:48:09.160 --> 2:48:12.360 the Democrats sort of like falling into lockscept with Republicans 2:48:12.440 --> 2:48:15.600 on back of the genocide in Israel has sort of 2:48:15.680 --> 2:48:17.440 led to this thing where the Republicans are using this 2:48:17.520 --> 2:48:20.959 to just straight up obliterate like all of the US 2:48:21.120 --> 2:48:26.240 is like political, economic, and social institutions. 2:48:26.160 --> 2:48:29.120 Well and specifically with this like investigation, they are they 2:48:29.160 --> 2:48:32.080 are trying to get all these universities to cooperate in 2:48:32.200 --> 2:48:36.440 efforts to selectively remove students who have protested against the 2:48:36.480 --> 2:48:39.200 genocide in Gaza. Right, this is this is the you know, 2:48:39.360 --> 2:48:42.720 the same attack on free speech and free expression that 2:48:43.040 --> 2:48:46.080 they're doing against Khalil, Like this is this is the 2:48:46.120 --> 2:48:48.920 same exact purpose, and now they're trying to get more 2:48:48.920 --> 2:48:52.519 and more universities to be complicit in like the selective 2:48:52.840 --> 2:48:56.520 removal of people in this country who choose to express 2:48:56.560 --> 2:48:58.920 their First Amendment rights regardless of whether they're a citizen, 2:48:59.360 --> 2:49:02.800 a green card, or on a student visa. So this 2:49:03.000 --> 2:49:05.480 is this is all deeply, deeply worrying. 2:49:06.280 --> 2:49:06.640 Robert. 2:49:06.680 --> 2:49:09.160 You have a small segment you want to discuss before 2:49:09.200 --> 2:49:10.120 we start to close out. 2:49:10.760 --> 2:49:13.640 Yeah, just a little bit at the end here. So 2:49:13.840 --> 2:49:17.039 in the subredit for the five ZHO five oh one 2:49:17.480 --> 2:49:23.040 protest campaign, which is an attempt to do protests in 2:49:23.120 --> 2:49:26.440 all fifty states simultaneously, right, I think their next day 2:49:26.480 --> 2:49:29.039 of action is coming up in April. I'm not giving 2:49:29.080 --> 2:49:32.200 an opinion on the overall thing, but in the subreddit, 2:49:32.360 --> 2:49:35.800 somebody posted claiming to be a National Guard soldier given 2:49:35.920 --> 2:49:38.600 kind of his thoughts on how the National Guard would 2:49:38.680 --> 2:49:43.400 respond to orders to carry out violence against US citizens, 2:49:43.959 --> 2:49:45.920 And I just wanted to chat about this book because 2:49:45.920 --> 2:49:48.800 it's it's something we talk about on the show pretty regularly. 2:49:49.400 --> 2:49:52.160 My opinion is that one of the likely ways things 2:49:52.240 --> 2:49:54.920 come to a head, probably as early as this summer, 2:49:55.680 --> 2:49:59.080 is that there is mass protests in DC and the 2:49:59.160 --> 2:50:01.880 Insurrection Act it gets used, and you know, the Guard 2:50:02.040 --> 2:50:04.400 at least are brought in to attempt to crack down. 2:50:04.840 --> 2:50:07.400 I mean, obviously Trump has done a version of this before, 2:50:08.000 --> 2:50:11.600 and Trump and his State attorney have both discussed using 2:50:11.680 --> 2:50:14.119 the Insurrection Act to crack down on protests. I think 2:50:14.160 --> 2:50:15.960 they see DC as the place they want to do that. 2:50:16.760 --> 2:50:18.520 So it's interesting to me to see a post like this. 2:50:19.240 --> 2:50:21.200 This is not a thing where like I've been able 2:50:21.240 --> 2:50:23.600 to verify this guy. Yet there's a couple of points 2:50:23.680 --> 2:50:26.080 that make me that is probably is a National guardsman. 2:50:26.160 --> 2:50:28.480 For one thing, there's a lot of them right like, 2:50:28.600 --> 2:50:31.240 this is not like a National guardsman. Where'd you find one? 2:50:31.280 --> 2:50:32.920 There's a ton of fucking dudes in the National Guard. 2:50:33.360 --> 2:50:36.000 For the other thing, everything he says is consistent with 2:50:36.120 --> 2:50:38.440 things that I have seen and talked to other people 2:50:38.480 --> 2:50:40.800 who are in and we're in the Guard about There's 2:50:40.840 --> 2:50:43.320 one little bit where he advises people on like stop 2:50:43.400 --> 2:50:46.960 the bleed gear, and he gives good advice. He says, 2:50:47.000 --> 2:50:49.240 only buy from NAAR and North American Rescue. It's the 2:50:49.280 --> 2:50:52.840 same advice we would have given. He cites DoD Directive 2:50:52.879 --> 2:50:55.400 thirteen forty four to ten, which is why he believes 2:50:55.440 --> 2:50:57.800 he's he's well within his rights to make a post 2:50:57.920 --> 2:51:00.160 like this, And in essence, what he's saying is that 2:51:00.840 --> 2:51:03.440 it is his belief that most of the military chain 2:51:03.520 --> 2:51:07.360 of command from NCOs up to officers would not be 2:51:07.720 --> 2:51:10.800 down with following the legal orders to fire on US citizens, 2:51:11.240 --> 2:51:15.160 but the vast majority of enlisted troops, if fired upon, 2:51:16.080 --> 2:51:19.840 would get over whatever issues they have with that very quickly, right. 2:51:19.920 --> 2:51:22.360 That's the gist of it is that I think, you know, 2:51:22.640 --> 2:51:25.880 within sort of the officer class and the NCO class, 2:51:25.920 --> 2:51:28.040 there are a lot of resistance to the idea of 2:51:28.080 --> 2:51:31.720 the military being used for domestic policing. That is less 2:51:31.840 --> 2:51:35.320 clear with kind of the enlisted class. Who are you know, 2:51:35.480 --> 2:51:38.000 a significant chuck of them are very much down for Trump. 2:51:38.640 --> 2:51:41.920 But whatever sort of divisions exist within enlisted soldiers would 2:51:41.920 --> 2:51:45.280 fall apart pretty quickly if soldiers were fired upon. And 2:51:45.520 --> 2:51:49.440 I think this is probably like assuming this is accurate, 2:51:49.840 --> 2:51:52.120 and I don't really see a reason to doubt it. 2:51:52.200 --> 2:51:54.680 There's nothing he's saying here that's crazy. I think this 2:51:54.840 --> 2:51:57.600 is kind of an interesting thing to keep in mind 2:51:58.280 --> 2:52:00.920 that like, when you're looking at the military, it's not 2:52:01.200 --> 2:52:03.600 the police. Like, if I have to have agents armed 2:52:03.640 --> 2:52:07.040 agents of the state cracking down on a protest, I'm 2:52:07.160 --> 2:52:09.800 less worried about people being killed if it's the National 2:52:09.840 --> 2:52:14.119 Guard in general. But that situation can change very very 2:52:14.320 --> 2:52:20.080 rapidly if like the situation becomes an active firefight. And 2:52:20.760 --> 2:52:22.560 I do think like that's the thing we have to 2:52:22.760 --> 2:52:27.199 consider right now, is the possibility that we have us soldiers, 2:52:27.200 --> 2:52:30.880 whether the National Guard or active duty, engaged openly in 2:52:31.120 --> 2:52:34.720 shooting at American protesters. Like that's that's in the cards 2:52:34.760 --> 2:52:38.280 as early as this summer. And it's not a fun 2:52:38.320 --> 2:52:40.720 the thing to think about. But I'm seeing more and more, 2:52:41.680 --> 2:52:43.800 not just posts like this, but I'm having more and 2:52:43.920 --> 2:52:47.520 more conversations with people who are in the military or 2:52:47.560 --> 2:52:50.680 who were are in the National Guard about their concerns 2:52:50.760 --> 2:52:52.960 about what they might be called upon to do. Some 2:52:53.120 --> 2:52:54.720 of this has to do with the border, but like 2:52:54.840 --> 2:52:57.760 it is becoming increasingly common for people in the military 2:52:58.440 --> 2:53:01.360 to worry about how they are going to be used 2:53:01.400 --> 2:53:03.920 in the immediate future. We're not talking about years. We're 2:53:03.959 --> 2:53:06.840 talking about this summer, right is when there's a very 2:53:06.920 --> 2:53:08.560 good chance a lot of stuff comes to a head. 2:53:09.200 --> 2:53:12.280 So these are things you should be thinking about. If 2:53:12.320 --> 2:53:15.400 you're listening and you are in the military. These are 2:53:15.480 --> 2:53:17.120 things that you should be thinking about because the people 2:53:17.120 --> 2:53:18.880 who are in charge of our government right now have 2:53:19.080 --> 2:53:21.280 made a lot of statements about how they want to 2:53:21.480 --> 2:53:25.760 use the military to deal with protests, and the idea 2:53:26.200 --> 2:53:29.240 that that's going to happen very soon is not not 2:53:29.440 --> 2:53:30.199 fringe or crazy. 2:53:30.640 --> 2:53:33.200 Well, and although these people might have you know, slightly 2:53:33.240 --> 2:53:36.160 more disciplined when it comes to actual firearms. There is 2:53:36.200 --> 2:53:39.440 also incidents like in twenty twenty yep where the Kentucky 2:53:39.560 --> 2:53:42.360 Army National Guard killed someone via the misuse of crowd 2:53:42.480 --> 2:53:45.480 control absolutely munitions. I think that is this is also 2:53:45.600 --> 2:53:48.600 worth stating. Even if you know, like a kent State 2:53:48.680 --> 2:53:51.920 situation maybe is not not as likely in like the 2:53:52.040 --> 2:53:56.440 modern day, there's certainly other other ways to cause grievous harm. Yes, 2:53:56.640 --> 2:53:59.640 in these sorts of like protest environments and when we've 2:53:59.720 --> 2:54:00.080 seen and. 2:54:00.160 --> 2:54:02.480 I mean even in Portland, when we have seen which 2:54:02.520 --> 2:54:06.720 you witnessed personally, unfortunately, Garrison, the worst injuries to crowd 2:54:06.800 --> 2:54:10.440 control devices are usually people in our case it was 2:54:10.520 --> 2:54:13.880 federal agents, but who are utilizing crowd control weapons and 2:54:13.959 --> 2:54:16.360 have not trained on them. Yeah, because they're not. There's 2:54:16.400 --> 2:54:19.000 certain ways you're supposed to and not supposed to use them, 2:54:19.280 --> 2:54:20.680 and these guys are just Hey, you know how to 2:54:20.800 --> 2:54:22.000 use a gun. You must know how to use the 2:54:22.120 --> 2:54:23.039 robotal thing. 2:54:23.120 --> 2:54:25.960 You know. No, if you use like less lethals the 2:54:26.000 --> 2:54:28.840 way you would use you know, a regular firearm, that 2:54:28.920 --> 2:54:32.920 actually leads to like much more like possible lethal consequences 2:54:33.000 --> 2:54:35.879 or like life changing consequences. Yeah, which you know, police 2:54:35.959 --> 2:54:38.680 are more familiar with the regular use of crowd control 2:54:38.760 --> 2:54:42.200 munitions that necessarily you know, like bore attack or or 2:54:42.320 --> 2:54:44.920 like state national guards. It's something that's also you know, 2:54:45.040 --> 2:54:51.080 worth keeping in mind. Let's close by my least favorite segment, 2:54:51.280 --> 2:54:54.039 Stinky Musk, which I still has a really bad name. 2:54:55.240 --> 2:54:58.680 On Monday, a Central judge ruled that Musk's DOGE should 2:54:58.720 --> 2:55:01.640 be the subject to comply with Foyer requests and public 2:55:01.680 --> 2:55:05.600 disclosures of information required of government agencies, with the judge 2:55:05.680 --> 2:55:08.480 ordering the release of email correspondence between Musk's team and 2:55:08.520 --> 2:55:11.240 the Office of Management and Budget and was ordered to 2:55:11.320 --> 2:55:14.680 quote begin producing documents on a rolling basis as soon 2:55:14.879 --> 2:55:19.360 as practicable unquote now. Despite Musk's claims of quote unquote 2:55:19.400 --> 2:55:23.360 maximum transparency, last month, the Trump administration tried to shield 2:55:23.440 --> 2:55:26.760 DOGE from public records requests by labeling the agency's documents 2:55:26.800 --> 2:55:31.200 as quote unquote presidential records, which carries special protections. This 2:55:31.400 --> 2:55:34.760 specific case is super interesting. The judge of federal judge 2:55:34.800 --> 2:55:37.680 by the name of Cooper also critiqued the way that 2:55:37.800 --> 2:55:40.440 the Trump admin tried to litigate this case, quoting from 2:55:40.440 --> 2:55:43.560 political quote the lawyers offered virtually nothing in the way 2:55:43.560 --> 2:55:47.520 of evidence about doge's operations or management. Indeed, the court 2:55:47.600 --> 2:55:50.840 wonders whether this decision was strategic, Cooper said, noting that 2:55:50.840 --> 2:55:54.240 the Trump administration lawyers had taken competing positions, including that 2:55:54.360 --> 2:55:57.560 DOGE qualifies as an agency under some sections of law 2:55:57.760 --> 2:56:01.560 but not others when it suits it. Thus, DOGE becomes, 2:56:01.800 --> 2:56:05.920 on the defendant's view, a Goldilock's entity, Cooper wrote, not 2:56:06.120 --> 2:56:09.560 an agency when it's burdensome, but an agency when it's convenient. 2:56:11.160 --> 2:56:15.600 And I do like Cooper's analysis here of how DOGE 2:56:15.680 --> 2:56:19.000 is very selectively an agency only when it causes, you know, 2:56:19.200 --> 2:56:23.000 benefit to Trump or Musk. And finally, we have one 2:56:23.040 --> 2:56:27.119 other Musk story to close out. This episode admits Tesla's 2:56:27.160 --> 2:56:31.640 plummeting stock price, protests outside Tesla dealerships, and reports of 2:56:31.680 --> 2:56:36.120 vandalism of dealerships across the country. Trump has essentially started 2:56:36.160 --> 2:56:40.800 doing ads for Tesla on the White House driveway. Upon 2:56:41.080 --> 2:56:43.320 climbing in a red car that he's not allowed to operate, 2:56:43.520 --> 2:56:49.320 Trump remarked, Wow, everything is computer So this was a 2:56:50.000 --> 2:56:55.280 very odd and kind of embarrassing show of favoritism. Where 2:56:55.560 --> 2:56:58.800 Musk brought out like a number of different Tesla models, 2:56:59.120 --> 2:57:01.720 and Trump got to unquote, you know, pick the one 2:57:01.760 --> 2:57:04.560 that he wanted to buy, as he just like sat 2:57:04.640 --> 2:57:08.800 in on this like televised advertisement for Tesla as his 2:57:08.920 --> 2:57:12.560 you know, company is losing a shocking amount of money 2:57:12.720 --> 2:57:13.960 in the in these talk market. 2:57:14.080 --> 2:57:16.040 Yeah, and there, I mean there, there's literally there's literally 2:57:16.080 --> 2:57:18.720 a picture of him with like the notes that he has. 2:57:18.840 --> 2:57:21.039 There's like in a in like really really like a. 2:57:21.080 --> 2:57:24.680 Tesla sales note like bullet point of like how much 2:57:24.760 --> 2:57:27.680 certain models are, what their different features are, which ones 2:57:27.760 --> 2:57:30.480 have self driving features included, which ones you have to 2:57:30.520 --> 2:57:31.040 pay extra for? 2:57:31.520 --> 2:57:31.720 Yeah. 2:57:31.760 --> 2:57:34.400 No, he's he's literally carrying like a Tesla sales pitch 2:57:34.800 --> 2:57:38.080 as he does this televised appearance boosting his new best 2:57:38.160 --> 2:57:42.840 friends and co president's company. Trump said on True Social 2:57:43.520 --> 2:57:47.720 the radical left lunatics are trying to illegally and collusively 2:57:47.840 --> 2:57:52.880 boycott Tesla, one of the world's greatest automakers and Elon's baby, 2:57:53.760 --> 2:57:56.600 in order to attack and do harm to Elon and 2:57:56.760 --> 2:58:01.360 everything he stands for. Unquote. So now not only has 2:58:01.400 --> 2:58:05.000 Trump called the Tesla boycott illegal, which which is, you know, 2:58:05.480 --> 2:58:10.600 its own form of unhinged. But on Tuesday, Trump announced 2:58:10.640 --> 2:58:14.800 that vandalism of Tesla's will be labeled as domestic terrorism, 2:58:15.280 --> 2:58:19.320 promising that perpetrators will quote unquote go through hell. A 2:58:19.360 --> 2:58:23.760 White House spokesperson Harrison Fields said, quote ongoing and heinous 2:58:23.879 --> 2:58:28.800 acts of violence against Tesla's by radical leftist activists are 2:58:28.879 --> 2:58:32.840 nothing short of domestic terror unquote, So that. 2:58:32.879 --> 2:58:34.560 Would be fun to see how that blaze out. 2:58:35.440 --> 2:58:38.600 I feel like we're we genuinely are not that far 2:58:38.760 --> 2:58:41.160 off from just like Trump trying to hand down legal 2:58:41.280 --> 2:58:44.560 mandate saying you must buy a Tesla like this. This 2:58:44.680 --> 2:58:46.720 is the this is the kind of shit that we're 2:58:46.760 --> 2:58:47.119 in now. 2:58:47.640 --> 2:58:49.760 Now, this is one of the most like bizarre things 2:58:49.800 --> 2:58:53.080 I've ever seen. If if Biden or any Democratic president 2:58:53.120 --> 2:58:55.960 did anything similar to this, you would have like thralls 2:58:56.000 --> 2:58:59.040 of people screaming for his impeachment, similar to like the 2:58:59.160 --> 2:59:01.040 erg Adams thing. It's like one of the most blatant 2:59:01.080 --> 2:59:04.040 open displays of corruption I've ever seen, where president is 2:59:04.120 --> 2:59:08.200 using his office to boost like the personal financial interests 2:59:08.240 --> 2:59:11.560 of one of his top advisors who's also like running 2:59:11.760 --> 2:59:15.480 government agencies essentially and doing massive, massive cuts to prohibit 2:59:15.520 --> 2:59:18.840 their ability to like investigate his own businesses while also 2:59:18.879 --> 2:59:21.360 taking massive amounts of government money to keep businesses like 2:59:21.480 --> 2:59:25.600 Tesla and SpaceX operable. So this has been a pretty 2:59:25.680 --> 2:59:28.600 pretty silly thing to watch unfold the past few days, 2:59:29.080 --> 2:59:33.680 and now Tesla shares have risen four percent after Trump's 2:59:33.920 --> 2:59:35.920 support for Musk and Tesla. 2:59:36.320 --> 2:59:39.920 Great, well, I think that's gonna do it here at 2:59:40.000 --> 2:59:43.920 us with the ed to play us out, We're gonna 2:59:44.360 --> 2:59:47.720 refer back to our friend the Narcissist Cookbook who put 2:59:47.760 --> 2:59:50.840 together our lovely new tariff theme song that you're gonna 2:59:50.920 --> 2:59:53.760 hear every week until tariffs aren't a thing anymore. 2:59:54.200 --> 2:59:55.600 We reported the news. 3:00:00.360 --> 3:00:09.360 Jazz Bob lot Jazz got lot Lock Jazz Bob Locking 3:00:09.720 --> 3:00:10.280 jazz bo. 3:00:12.000 --> 3:00:15.120 Hey, We'll be back Monday with more episodes every week 3:00:15.240 --> 3:00:17.080 from now until the heat death of the universe. 3:00:18.640 --> 3:00:21.120 It Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media. 3:00:21.320 --> 3:00:24.320 For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 3:00:24.440 --> 3:00:27.360 folzonmedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeart 3:00:27.440 --> 3:00:30.920 Radio app, app a podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 3:00:31.440 --> 3:00:33.320 You can now find sources for It Could Happen Here 3:00:33.400 --> 3:00:36.320 listened directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening,