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Speaker 1: Calzon Media.

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Speaker 2: Hey everybody, Robert Evans here and I wanted to let

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Speaker 2: you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode

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Speaker 2: of the week that just happened is here in one

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Speaker 2: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to

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Speaker 2: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If

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Speaker 2: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,

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Speaker 2: there's going to be nothing new here for you, but

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Speaker 2: you can make your own decisions.

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Speaker 3: Welcome, dick it up and hear a podcast about things

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Speaker 3: falling apart and how to put them back together again.

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Speaker 4: I am your host Mia Wong with me is James Stout. Hi?

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Speaker 1: Mary, happy to be here again?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I am.

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Speaker 4: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I have mixed emotions about this one. So today we

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Speaker 3: are talking about how the American state, particularly the sort

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Speaker 3: of neoliberal American state of the last about fifty years,

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Speaker 3: created Elon Musk and how it is destroying itself. And

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Speaker 3: we'll start with the fun part of this, which is

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Speaker 3: that Tesla stock is down twenty five percent in the

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Speaker 3: last month. Yay, it's extremely funny. The protests are working.

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Speaker 3: People are like lighting them on cars on fire literally

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Speaker 3: all over the world, Like there was just a big

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Speaker 3: ration in France the day we're recording this. The pressure

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Speaker 3: is working, he's having a bad time. Twenty five percent

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Speaker 3: is just the start we can get the other seventy

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Speaker 3: five percent.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, and like for people who like I guess,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, the value of Tesla stock is directly

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Speaker 1: tied to Elon Musk's net worth. Like, obviously he's diversified,

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Speaker 1: he doesn't have all of his wealth and netstocks. But

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Speaker 1: like when Tesla stock goes down, Elon Musk gets poorer.

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Speaker 3: Yep, it's great, it's great. We love we love making

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Speaker 3: Elon Musk poorer.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the one line we like to see.

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Speaker 3: However, Comma, So we've talked a lot on this show

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Speaker 3: about the things that Elon Musk is doing to the

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Speaker 3: American state and about all of the people who he

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Speaker 3: is harming in the lives. Is showing the people who

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Speaker 3: are dead because of his actions, and I think it's

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Speaker 3: worth actually getting into how he was produced and how

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Speaker 3: it came to be that. You know, at the beginning

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Speaker 3: of the Communist Manifesto, Mark famously wrote to the boorscheoise

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Speaker 3: Z produced their own grave diggers, and you know, his

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Speaker 3: his promised like inevitable victory of the proletariat has thus

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Speaker 3: far failed to materialize. But neoliberalism and like this specific state,

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Speaker 3: seems to have produced their own grave diggers, partially in

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Speaker 3: the form of Trump, but partially in the form of

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Speaker 3: Elon Musk. And it's worth actually going into the story

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Speaker 3: of how specifically this happens, and also, I think what

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Speaker 3: neoliberalism is, because this is an important aspect of I

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Speaker 3: think people are kind of aware of the broad outlines

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Speaker 3: of the story of the extent to which you know,

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Speaker 3: Tesla and space Ax were built by American subsidies, but

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Speaker 3: it's worth going into some of the more structural elements

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Speaker 3: of how this happened.

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Speaker 5: Why.

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Speaker 3: So, one of the problems that we have here, and

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Speaker 3: I say we have here because this is a problem

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Speaker 3: that Elon Musk has, which is that he simply does

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Speaker 3: not understand what neoliberalism is or how it operates.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a lot of things he doesn't understand.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and unfortunately he has inherited like the greatest of

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Speaker 3: all neoliberal states. So the issue here is that Elon

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Speaker 3: Musk thinks that what his own ideology is supposed to

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Speaker 3: be when neoliberalism is what is sort of weird libertarians

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Speaker 3: and whatever you call his sort of ideology you know,

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Speaker 3: is supposed to be and you know, like he is

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Speaker 3: just sort of a fascist. But on the other hand,

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Speaker 3: he's a product of this wing of that movement that

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Speaker 3: was created out of out of the neoliberal thing about like, ah,

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Speaker 3: you must like decrease the size of the state. You gotta,

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Speaker 3: you gotta eliminate all regulations you have to you know,

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Speaker 3: you keep keep decreasing the size of the state. Keep

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Speaker 3: fire like you know, fire all government employees, et cetera,

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Speaker 3: et cetera. Yeah, and again this is I think largely

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Speaker 3: what a lot of people think neoliberalism is, right. They

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Speaker 3: think it's like, okay, neoliberalisms where the state gets smaller,

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Speaker 3: And this has always been a fucking joke, Like to

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Speaker 3: this entire ideoliberal period, the size of the state bureaucracy

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Speaker 3: keeps increasing, and this has always allowed a kind of

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Speaker 3: like controlled capitalist opposition to emerge to you know, when

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Speaker 3: two thousand and eight happens, right, Yeah, the economy, entire

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Speaker 3: economy collapses, and then out of the woodwork come all

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Speaker 3: of these like Rand Paulls of like quote unquote libertarians

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Speaker 3: who have a lot of sudden interesting ties to a

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Speaker 3: bunch of fascist groups and like all of these sort

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Speaker 3: of fascist perilitaries. But you know, they can come out

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Speaker 3: of the woodwork and say, oh, the reason that the

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Speaker 3: two thousand and eight collapse happened was because there is

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Speaker 3: too much government regulation. And this is like sort of

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Speaker 3: what bitcoin is, right, It's like, ah, the evils of

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Speaker 3: capitalism are happening because like.

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Speaker 1: Not enough capitalism.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well it's because like the but like cecifically, like

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Speaker 3: the evil and s trench interests have taken over the

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Speaker 3: state and you don't have the power to access to

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Speaker 3: things that they do, which is obviously you know, like

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Speaker 3: it is obviously true that these people have control of

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Speaker 3: the state and you don't. But this sort of controlled

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Speaker 3: opposition of if you put us in power, will eliminate

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Speaker 3: parts of the state, will get rid of all this

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Speaker 3: regulation that you can suddenly be in power. This has

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Speaker 3: always been a controlled opposition thing, you know. And this

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Speaker 3: is disappears in the form of sort of libertarianism or

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Speaker 3: like on the most extreme mentioned arco capitalism. Yeah, and

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Speaker 3: this is something that the Montpellier society, which is like

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Speaker 3: the people who basically invented neoliberalism and where all like

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Speaker 3: their academics come from, they slow of conferences. They've always

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Speaker 3: had a problem with this where there's always been a

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Speaker 3: branch of an archer capital there who think the only

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Speaker 3: thing that the state should do is enforced contracts or

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Speaker 3: just that it shouldn't exist and everything should just do Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and the neoliberals are like, Okay, that you guys are

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Speaker 3: fucking ridiculous. And the reason they think this is that

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Speaker 3: the actual thing that these people believe and this is

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Speaker 3: this is something that if you read more highek than

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Speaker 3: just like the Road to served him right, that's like

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Speaker 3: the stuff for public consumption. If you read the stuff

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Speaker 3: that you ask for public consumption, if you read sort

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Speaker 3: of like rope Key, and you read all of the

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Speaker 3: sort of theorists who develop what becomes the IMF, and

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Speaker 3: you know, you go through all the different schools. What

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Speaker 3: they actually believe. Contrary the things that they say were like, oh,

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Speaker 3: markets naturally emerge and the state just like exist to

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Speaker 3: control them. What they believe is that you have to

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Speaker 3: use the states specifically to create markets, and you have

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Speaker 3: to use the state to discipline workers through just pure

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Speaker 3: violence until they become sort of like good neoliberal market

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Speaker 3: subjects you go to work, go home, buy things, and

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Speaker 3: do nothing else. And the product of this is the

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Speaker 3: nineteen eighties, right, is the replacement of the welfare state,

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Speaker 3: which is the sort of carrets of this system with

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Speaker 3: just the pure stick of the police baton and the

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Speaker 3: prison system.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the end of like the post Second World

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Speaker 1: War welfare state order, right that we saw certainly in

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Speaker 1: the US but mostly in the Europe.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, But and this is very important, this never actually

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Speaker 3: decreased the size of the state because what the state,

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Speaker 3: you know, what it was was it was a shifting

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Speaker 3: of sort of recourses and allocation away from like the

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Speaker 3: state giving you things towards the states, you know, like

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Speaker 3: beating you over the head with a hammer, and also

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Speaker 3: insofar as it gives you things, making you go through

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Speaker 3: all of these unbelievable bureaucratic hurdles to access whatever sort

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Speaker 3: of like scant welfare policies still exist.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the states surveying you both for violence reasons and

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Speaker 1: for withdrawing your benefits reasons.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And this and this is always something that all

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Speaker 3: of these people have supported. Right now, The other important

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Speaker 3: part for our purposes is is the thing I said

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Speaker 3: earlier about the state creating markets, and that's that's kind

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Speaker 3: of like an abstract thing, right, there are sort of

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Speaker 3: historical examples you can go through to look at what

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Speaker 3: this looks like in a place where there aren't markets.

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Speaker 3: But this is something that's very important because a huge

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Speaker 3: amount of what Tesla is is a direct result of

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Speaker 3: you know, pure neoliberalism and action, which is the state

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Speaker 3: stepping in to create a market as its way of

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Speaker 3: doing regulation and with the way to interact with the world.

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Speaker 3: And so here we need to get to carbon credits. Now,

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Speaker 3: selling off carbon credits, they're also called regulatory credits. In

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty four the selling of carbon credits was forty

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Speaker 3: three percent of Tesla's net income. Forty three percent.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so we should explain what a carbon credit is

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Speaker 1: if people I'm.

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Speaker 3: Familiar, Yeah, actually has numbers on this. Their numbers are

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Speaker 3: that since twenty fourteen, thirty four percent of the total

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Speaker 3: profits of Tesla are from selling these carbon credits. So

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Speaker 3: the way the system works is that the EPA sets

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Speaker 3: standards for how much this is. Like you know, I

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Speaker 3: read the ACXIO this thing too, but like the EPA

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Speaker 3: set standards for how much like CO two per mile,

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Speaker 3: all of the cars and trucks combined that a car

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Speaker 3: company makes can can admit and you know, instead of

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Speaker 3: doing the thing where you're like, okay, hey, there's just

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Speaker 3: going to be like a firm cap on these emissions,

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Speaker 3: they're like no, no, no, you know this this is what

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Speaker 3: I say when I say they create a market. So

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Speaker 3: if what happens if you go over the cap, isn't

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Speaker 3: that like you know, like people get hauled off the

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Speaker 3: jail or whatever. What happens is that you have to

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Speaker 3: buy someone else's carbon credits, and if you're below the cap,

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Speaker 3: it gives you credits you can sell to other companies.

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Speaker 3: So what this allows is because Tesla only makes electric cars, right,

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Speaker 3: their cars produced like zero basically like.

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Speaker 1: They don't have any fossil fuel use at all within

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Speaker 1: their line.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, Now obviously like whereas you know, you can

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Speaker 3: ask a question where is that electricity coming from? But

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Speaker 3: you know, like, but that's that's what doesn't get factored

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Speaker 3: into it, which is part of the sort of problem

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Speaker 3: with trying to use the state like this to solve right.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't look at life cyclists. Yeah, yeah, it just

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Speaker 1: looks at driving the car missions.

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Speaker 3: You know, this is this is the problem with trying

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Speaker 3: to use a regulatory state like this to solve the

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Speaker 3: problem with climate change by creating a market. And so

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Speaker 3: Tesla makes and again this is this last year, this

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Speaker 3: was forty three percent of its NEAT income came not

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Speaker 3: from selling cars, but from selling these carbon credits. So

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Speaker 3: what they're doing is making it so that other companies

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Speaker 3: can produce more cars that are less fuel efficients, can

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Speaker 3: produce less electric cars and produce less like hybrids.

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Speaker 1: It's why you couldn't get a plug in hybrid EV

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Speaker 1: pickup truck, Like I think they may be plug in

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Speaker 1: hybrid Mavericks now, but like the reason that no US

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Speaker 1: manufacturer bothered to make an electric pickup truck like the

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Speaker 1: that form fifty lightning that they have now is because

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Speaker 1: they could just trade with companies like Tesla instead.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and this is a fucking disaster for climate policy

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Speaker 3: because instead of having all of the car companies just

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Speaker 3: like dramatically lowering their emissions, what you have is one

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Speaker 3: car company that makes electric cars, and then all the

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Speaker 3: rest of the car companies increasing the amount of like

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Speaker 3: sto Tuper like Biles et cetera et cetera. And the

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Speaker 3: secondary problem, and this is the problem that we're experiencing now,

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Speaker 3: is that, you know, neoliberals have like this very sort

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Speaker 3: of in a lot of ways, like romantic notion of

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Speaker 3: what a market is, right with the explain it. So

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Speaker 3: it's like, ah, there's all this, there's gonna be all

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Speaker 3: this like competition in the market. The competition is going

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Speaker 3: to create the best product. And what actually happens, and

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Speaker 3: the neoliberals in their private doctor understand this is that

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Speaker 3: when the state creates a market like this, what is

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Speaker 3: doing is handing like a person, like a single individual,

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Speaker 3: a giant monopoly. And that's what happens. And that monopoly

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Speaker 3: is one Elon Musk, Yeah, who has now been handed

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Speaker 3: the title of the richest man in human history by

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Speaker 3: the state's regulatory apparatus.

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Speaker 1: Because they've given him basically complete control every I mean,

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Speaker 1: there are other ev only companies, but they're minute, right,

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Speaker 1: Rivan or something like that, And he's got this scarce

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Speaker 1: resource that the entire automotive industry now needs.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And again this is you know, going back to

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Speaker 3: the market creation part of this. None of this shit existed, right,

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Speaker 3: Like carbon caps are not something the market would ever

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Speaker 3: produce by itself or whatever. Like this is a direct

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Speaker 3: neilerbal intervention into the market, which is what neolibililism is, right,

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Speaker 3: It's it's the nailerble state coming into great markets and

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Speaker 3: the product of it is Elon Musk.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a monopoly.

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Speaker 7: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And when we come back from ADS, well, we'll go

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Speaker 3: into a little bit of why specifically it was Elon

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Speaker 3: Musk and not all of these other companies that became

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Speaker 3: the sort of single guy and how and how else

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Speaker 3: he's benefited from the state. We are back, so the

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Speaker 3: other aspect, you know. So, so we've gone into how

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Speaker 3: how how Tesla is built on on these on this

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Speaker 3: carbon credit trading. The other aspect of it is that

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Speaker 3: Tesla has received unbelievable amounts of money from government contracts.

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Speaker 3: The Washington Post in probably the last like expose they're

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Speaker 3: ever going to do like this now that Bezos has

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Speaker 3: been like weird free market capitalists like tried to go

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Speaker 3: through and find all of the money in government contracts

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Speaker 3: that they've gotten.

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Speaker 4: They totaled it.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think I think they're also including like tax

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Speaker 3: credits and stuff like that, but they totaled it at

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Speaker 3: thirty eight billion dollars, and that's just the ones that

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Speaker 3: are unclassified, which is very important because a bunch of

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Speaker 3: what SpaceX does SpaceX is, you know, most other company

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Speaker 3: is a bunch of a bunch of contracts for classified

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Speaker 3: like the deployment of Spice satellites. So it's definitely way

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Speaker 3: more than that, right, Yeah. But this comes to the

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Speaker 3: other sort of aspect of how Tesla functions and how

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Speaker 3: tech companies work in general, which is that tech companies,

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Speaker 3: like in general, do not make money, right They hemorrhage

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Speaker 3: money for basically their entire existence until they can find

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Speaker 3: a bunch of government contracts that can make them money.

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Speaker 3: And Tesla in particular was like really sort of eating

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Speaker 3: shit after two thousand and eight, and you know, WAPA

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Speaker 3: talks about this.

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Speaker 4: They got a.

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Speaker 3: Four hundred and sixty five million dollars low interest loan

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Speaker 3: for the Department of Energy in twenty ten that basically

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Speaker 3: saved the company from the brink of collapse.

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Speaker 1: Good thing, there's nothing else to spend the money on

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Speaker 1: in twenty ten. No one else needed low interest low

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Speaker 1: into a I think it was fine.

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Speaker 3: No, No, there was no attempt to build like a

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Speaker 3: giant American high speed rail system that Elon Musk also killed.

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Speaker 1: Yep, you know, nothing else was happening. I wasn't living

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Speaker 1: in my car at that time. It was fine. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: thank you Obama.

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Speaker 7: And so and so.

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Speaker 3: As this goes on, right, the goal of you as

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Speaker 3: a tech company, there's two things you want to do.

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Speaker 3: If you're a smaller tech company, you're trying to get

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Speaker 3: bought by a bigger tech company so you can retire

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Speaker 3: on your pile of money. Or if you're a larger

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Speaker 3: tech company, you were trying to amass enough US contracts,

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Speaker 3: like US government contracts, to like get you to sort

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Speaker 3: of stability. And this is what happens with SpaceX. SpaceX

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Speaker 3: now has gotten eighteen billion dollars of contracts with NASA,

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Speaker 3: And this is sort of a part of like, I mean,

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Speaker 3: NASA has always used government contractors, but like this is different,

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Speaker 3: Like this is just straight up there using Tesla's rockets

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Speaker 3: to do things. And this is also part of why

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Speaker 3: like Tesla and Boeing fucking this up, as part of

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Speaker 3: why a bunch of astronauts are fucking stranded on the

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Speaker 3: space station right now, because these things do not work.

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Speaker 3: But there's there's been an enormous amount of money here.

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Speaker 3: And the other thing, you know, this is one of

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Speaker 3: the other sort of like great neo liberal things, is

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Speaker 3: that a lot of the a lot of the factories

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Speaker 3: that Elon Musk sort of builds, you know, the ones

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Speaker 3: that are in the US, are there because they get

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Speaker 3: unbelievable amounts of tax breaks and taxi centers from from

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Speaker 3: from local states themselves. All of this brings us to,

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Speaker 3: you know, one of the other really core aspects of

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Speaker 3: sort of the profitability of Tesla in terms of selling

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Speaker 3: in terms of selling cars. By the way, we should

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Speaker 3: also mention this is some thing Axios talks about that

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Speaker 3: like if they weren't able to sell carbon credits, this

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Speaker 3: company would literally never make money.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, this has been the case. I write

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Speaker 1: about this like I think two years ago. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: remember writing about this before. Eat the Musk have gone

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Speaker 1: full fucking evil villain, I guess. But that's what they are.

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Speaker 1: They're a cobbon credit company that makes cars.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but even their car sales are enormously bolstered by

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Speaker 3: a seven five hundred dollars tax credit for electric cars.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I got some tax credit information on electric cars.

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Speaker 1: It's now the time. Yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 3: Can you want to talk about the other one that's

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Speaker 3: driving these unhinged.

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Speaker 1: Sales, Yes, I do, because I have been driving around

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Speaker 1: San Diego and I have seen an obscene number of

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Speaker 1: cyber trucks wrapped in people's business livery, and it occurs

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Speaker 1: to me that they're not businesses that need a pickup truck,

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Speaker 1: nor the people who need a pickup truck for work

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Speaker 1: by cyber trucks because they suck at being trucks. And

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Speaker 1: so I did some digging and I discovered that the

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Speaker 1: IRS has a special tax deduction for vehicles which are

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Speaker 1: rated over six pounds gross vehicle weight. The gross vehicle

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Speaker 1: weight rating, if you're not familiar, that's not like the

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Speaker 1: mass of the vehicle if you drove it like off

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Speaker 1: the dealer lot onto a scale, that's the maximum operating

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Speaker 1: weight of the vehicle as specified by the manufacturer. So

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Speaker 1: it's your tesla with I mean, they are very funny

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Speaker 1: videos of guy cycloading one bag of composts into the

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Speaker 1: back of the Tesla and being it's a great truck

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Speaker 1: for truck stuff.

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Speaker 3: The other really funny one is when when they try

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Speaker 3: to attach like a winch to it and try to

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Speaker 3: use it to pull the pull heavy things in the

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Speaker 3: back of the truck comes off because it's just like

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Speaker 3: made of like.

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Speaker 1: It's like like glue, like a unibody. Yeah, it might

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Speaker 1: not be a body on frame, like, it might not

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Speaker 1: be a proper truck. I actually don't know now how

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Speaker 1: stually I will look into that afterwards. I bet it's

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Speaker 1: I bet most of the electric or like high minage

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Speaker 1: pickup trucks are not. So yeah, not a good truck actually,

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Speaker 1: under it's called Section one seventy nine. Under Section one

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Speaker 1: seventy nine, a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating

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Speaker 1: over six thousand pounds, you can deduct up to thirty

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Speaker 1: one thousand in the first year rather than deducting the

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Speaker 1: depreciation of the capital good over time. Right, So instead

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Speaker 1: of instead of deducting the depreciation of your vehicle that

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Speaker 1: you purchase your business over time and not paying tax

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Speaker 1: on that amount, you can not pay tax on thirty

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Speaker 1: one thousand in the first year of your vehicle if

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Speaker 1: it's over six thousand pounds.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 1: There are some exemptions for luxury vehicles, like if you've

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Speaker 1: got a may bark or something really fucking heavy, so

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Speaker 1: that would even cover the Model X, right, the Tesla

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Speaker 1: Model X have the GBWR above that. With a truck,

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Speaker 1: there are exemptions for work vehicles and they have to

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Speaker 1: have a separate cargo compartment that is not the driver's compartment,

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Speaker 1: that is six feet or more in length. So the

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Speaker 1: cyber truck just happened to have a six foot bed. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so you can deduct one hundred percent of value in

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Speaker 1: the first year from what I understand for these vehicles

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Speaker 1: which have a six foot bed. At least this was

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Speaker 1: the case when I was looking. I became aware of

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Speaker 1: the exact nature of this when I went on the

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Speaker 1: Cyber Truck Owners Club forum and looked what tax deduct

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Speaker 1: peoples were doing, right, and then I worked back from there,

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Speaker 1: and it does seem that people are doing this. I

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Speaker 1: think it might be changing. So you can only deduct

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Speaker 1: a certain percentage soon. It will shock listeners to hear

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Speaker 1: that I'm not giving you tax advice, nor am I

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Speaker 1: qualified to do so. Accountant, This is not this is

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Speaker 1: not accounting advice. On top of that, Mia mentioned the

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Speaker 1: IRS Commercial Clean Vehicle credit. Right, that's a credit, not

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Speaker 1: a deduction, So the deduction would discount the amount of

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Speaker 1: your income that you pay tax on versus the credit,

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Speaker 1: which is just great credit. So potentially the person could

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Speaker 1: deduct the cost of the cyber truck plus the cost

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Speaker 1: of wrapping the fucking cyber truck ruck to prove it's

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Speaker 1: a business vehicle, and then if you're wrapping it. From

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Speaker 1: what I understand, like these deductions somewhat depend on the

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Speaker 1: percentage of the vehicle's use that is business. I guess

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Speaker 1: this could be like the equivalent of fringes on the

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Speaker 1: flag tax theory, people claiming that when they're driving their

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Speaker 1: their cyber truck to go to Whole Foods but it's wrapped,

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Speaker 1: they're advertising a business, so it's a business use. I

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Speaker 1: don't understand how viable that is as a claim, but well,

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Speaker 1: you know, but.

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Speaker 3: Part of this is, like it's very easy, like especially

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Speaker 3: right now when the irs is being gutted, Like it's

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Speaker 3: very easy to do this kind of bullshit.

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Speaker 1: And people are not getting all it did.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so they can take a seven thy five hundred

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Speaker 1: commercial vehicle clean vehicle credit in addition to deducting that much,

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Speaker 1: and like you would struggle to persuade me that that

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Speaker 1: is not why a lot of people are buying cyber

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Speaker 1: trucks right, Like it's got the weight rating, it's got

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Speaker 1: the bed size. Like it's a lot of people who

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Speaker 1: wouldn't necessarily like not all trucks have six footbeds. Now,

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Speaker 1: I will never buy a new drug because I can't

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Speaker 1: find a truck that has like a decent seating arrangement

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Speaker 1: and larger than six foot bed and four by four

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Speaker 1: and doesn't cost more than I earn in a year.

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Speaker 1: But like it's quite a like niche overlap of trucks

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Speaker 1: that apply. And like for a truck with a six

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Speaker 1: foot bed and a six thousand pound gross vehicle weight rating,

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Speaker 1: the cyber truck's pretty small and it fits kind of

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Speaker 1: with people who don't actually need a work truck that

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Speaker 1: can none the less take advantage of the work truck

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Speaker 1: tax deduction. So once again, thank you government for subsidizing

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Speaker 1: the shittiest vehicle on the roads today.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's worth noting. So like like Tesla, well,

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Speaker 3: you know, you'll see a bunch of things about how

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Speaker 3: Tesla is like one of the like best selling car manufacturers, right,

436
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Speaker 3: and part of it is from this but also you know,

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Speaker 3: and this is this is the other aspect of this.

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Speaker 3: It's worth noting there's a very good Bloomberg article out

439
00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:21,400
Speaker 3: today by Amanda Mold that talks about how fifty percent

440
00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:24,520
Speaker 3: of all American consumer spending is now by people who

441
00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:27,399
Speaker 3: in the top ten percent of the income bracket, so

442
00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:29,560
Speaker 3: people make two hundred and fifty thousand dollars a year

443
00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:32,320
Speaker 3: or more, and that means increasingly that everything in the

444
00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:35,560
Speaker 3: United States reflects the you know, the sort of like

445
00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:40,280
Speaker 3: cultural affect of these bunch of fucking rich assholes who

446
00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:42,560
Speaker 3: all also want to buy this for their sort of

447
00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:46,119
Speaker 3: like like cultural grudges and you know, to like to

448
00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:48,199
Speaker 3: own the libs and like show how like much of

449
00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:50,480
Speaker 3: a fucking man they are. Yeah, and you know, and

450
00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:52,560
Speaker 3: and and so you already you have that initial incentive,

451
00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:54,720
Speaker 3: and then you suddenly have all of these fucking tax

452
00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:57,200
Speaker 3: incentives that you get from buying this vehicle that like,

453
00:20:57,280 --> 00:20:59,800
Speaker 3: definitely this is like designed with a shit in mind.

454
00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:02,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, without a doubt, and it becomes, like you say,

455
00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:04,879
Speaker 1: it becomes like a status good, and it becomes like

456
00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:06,240
Speaker 1: a culture war signifier.

457
00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:06,639
Speaker 4: Yeah.

458
00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:08,879
Speaker 1: In addition to all those things, I guess people also

459
00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:11,840
Speaker 1: like I've noticed that there's been a lot of backlash

460
00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:14,639
Speaker 1: against people who own tesla's. If you go on the

461
00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:18,440
Speaker 1: day we're recording, the top article on the front page

462
00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:21,800
Speaker 1: of Reddit. On the third article Reddit, the top post

463
00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:25,120
Speaker 1: is someone who's been putting pictures that say sell your car,

464
00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:27,359
Speaker 1: and it's got a picture of Musk Zeke hyling on

465
00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:30,919
Speaker 1: people's teslas in Boston. Ye shout out to that person.

466
00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:33,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, So we're going to take a break and

467
00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:35,000
Speaker 3: when we come back, we're going to sort of finish

468
00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:37,760
Speaker 3: this off with a sort of larger structural analysis of

469
00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:41,400
Speaker 3: how this version of capitalism created Musk and where it's going.

470
00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:55,400
Speaker 3: We are back now, I think this all. I think

471
00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:58,240
Speaker 3: if you've been following Elon a lot, you've probably heard

472
00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:00,439
Speaker 3: of most of this. I actually, okay, you've heard of

473
00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:02,320
Speaker 3: most of what I've said to some extent. I don't

474
00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:04,200
Speaker 3: think you've heard what James has said before, because I've

475
00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:07,240
Speaker 3: seen very little coverage of this. But there's also something

476
00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:10,680
Speaker 3: deeper going on here. The deeper thing going on here

477
00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:13,480
Speaker 3: is that Elon Musk, on a fundamental level, is also

478
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:16,920
Speaker 3: a product of the endless bubble economy that we've all

479
00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:19,960
Speaker 3: been living in for decades now. It's a product of

480
00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:23,640
Speaker 3: an economic policy that the economist Robert Brenner calls asset Knesianism.

481
00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:27,159
Speaker 3: So regular knesianism, right, is about you know, having the

482
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:30,240
Speaker 3: government spend money on things like welfare programs and job creation.

483
00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:32,240
Speaker 3: Also you know, also like the military too, right, Like,

484
00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:34,600
Speaker 3: let's not sort of like chigarcoat it, but it's about

485
00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:37,480
Speaker 3: using a bunch of state money to like make there

486
00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:39,800
Speaker 3: be jobs and using this to sort of I don't

487
00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:41,919
Speaker 3: know though the way they call it is like countercyclical spending,

488
00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:43,600
Speaker 3: but it's like they want to use the state to

489
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:45,440
Speaker 3: spend money to make there be jobs and to put

490
00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:47,119
Speaker 3: money into the economy and to put goods into the

491
00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:53,280
Speaker 3: economy to counteract economic downturns. Asset Knesianism is still the

492
00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:56,639
Speaker 3: state spending a bunch of resources, right, But it's the

493
00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:59,600
Speaker 3: state expending those resources both bureaucratically and in terms of

494
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:03,080
Speaker 3: incentives entries of sort of tax structures, and specifically also

495
00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:06,280
Speaker 3: very much in terms of the federal reserves interest rates,

496
00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:11,480
Speaker 3: specifically to increase the price of stocks. And also you know,

497
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:13,520
Speaker 3: and you know the reason he calls it assets, right,

498
00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:15,199
Speaker 3: because it's not just stocks, right, it's also things like

499
00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:18,240
Speaker 3: real estates. It's to increase the value of speculative assets,

500
00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:19,840
Speaker 3: things that you buy because you think it's going to

501
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:22,679
Speaker 3: be worth more later. I have talked about this a

502
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:26,000
Speaker 3: lot on this show. This has been the fundamental the

503
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:29,400
Speaker 3: global economic strategy of most of the world's economies ever

504
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:32,800
Speaker 3: since sort of Japan kind of pioneered it in the eighties.

505
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:35,520
Speaker 3: As after the US sort of like kneecapped its entire

506
00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:39,320
Speaker 3: domestic sort of export manufacturing economy through the Plaza Accords.

507
00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:41,440
Speaker 3: And by the end of this fucking administration, everyone who

508
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:43,320
Speaker 3: listened to the show will be able to explain what

509
00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:45,800
Speaker 3: the Plazative Cords and the River's Plasai Accords are from.

510
00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:48,240
Speaker 1: We stop it won't happen here after that because you'll

511
00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:49,639
Speaker 1: understand and you'll stop it.

512
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:53,560
Speaker 8: Yeah, you'll know, you'll know, you'll know the origin of

513
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:57,520
Speaker 8: the economy. Yes, so yeah again, the Plaza Cords, the

514
00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:00,440
Speaker 8: US forces all of these countries to increase to value

515
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:02,560
Speaker 8: if their currency is relative to the dollar. This makes

516
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:05,640
Speaker 8: American manufacturing more competitive in nukes, all of their manufacturing.

517
00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:08,600
Speaker 8: These countries need to find another place to you know,

518
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:11,399
Speaker 8: develop their economy, right, and the thing that the solution

519
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:15,080
Speaker 8: Japan comes to is real estate speculation, this blows up,

520
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:16,800
Speaker 8: This blows up. In the nineties, this is this is

521
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:18,560
Speaker 8: a whole bunch of the sort of Asian market collapse

522
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:21,159
Speaker 8: stuff is from this, and then the US is forced

523
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:23,119
Speaker 8: to do the reverse Plasea Cords in the nineties is

524
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:26,679
Speaker 8: Bill Clinton and you know, sort of annihilate American and

525
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:29,119
Speaker 8: manufacturing in order to sort of prop up the rest,

526
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:32,240
Speaker 8: like proper Japanese manufactory to keep their economy from completely employing.

527
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:34,200
Speaker 8: Japan's a number two economy in the world at that point.

528
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:37,919
Speaker 8: But again this means that the US has now been

529
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:40,320
Speaker 8: doing this. There's the famous things called the Greenspan puts,

530
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:42,199
Speaker 8: where like to try to stop a market collapse that

531
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:44,359
Speaker 8: was obviously coming with a tech bubble bleuw up. Green

532
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:46,440
Speaker 8: Span kept cutting the interest rates over and over again,

533
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:48,320
Speaker 8: trying to keep the bubble from collapsing. It just making

534
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:50,560
Speaker 8: it bigger, and then eventually it blew up. This is

535
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:52,639
Speaker 8: what two thousand and eight is was, you know, we

536
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:55,240
Speaker 8: did a whole bubble. I mean there's another bubble and

537
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:57,720
Speaker 8: collapse between there. But like you know, and this is

538
00:24:57,720 --> 00:24:59,560
Speaker 8: what we've been doing for the last two decades, Like

539
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:02,320
Speaker 8: since two and eight, we've been creating this giant tech bubble,

540
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:04,399
Speaker 8: and this tech bubble shit, and this sort of asset

541
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:06,560
Speaker 8: speculation is also a huge part of the value of

542
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:08,920
Speaker 8: Tesla stock is just you know, people who've been given

543
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:10,800
Speaker 8: a whole a whole bunch of access to cheap credit

544
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:12,840
Speaker 8: and by and by people, I mean like not really

545
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 8: you and me, like a bunch of unbelievably rich people

546
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 8: have access to like incredibly cheap loans, and they use

547
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 8: that money to buy Tesla stock. This is the sort

548
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:23,359
Speaker 8: of cyclical thing that just continues to increases the value

549
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:25,959
Speaker 8: of the company. And it's not just sort of like

550
00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 8: banks and investors. A lot of money that goes into

551
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 8: Tesla comes in there from state pension funds. Yeah, from

552
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:34,879
Speaker 8: a bunch of bunch of of a whole bunch of

553
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:37,640
Speaker 8: different countries, and also like a huge number of American states,

554
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 8: Like your teacher's pensions are all tied up in this

555
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:42,480
Speaker 8: because pension reform. But the way that we sort of

556
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 8: like lost the pension as a normal thing was that

557
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:46,680
Speaker 8: it was you know, it was converted to four one case,

558
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:49,520
Speaker 8: and the people who still have like regular state pensions,

559
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:52,159
Speaker 8: all of that money is now sort of invested in

560
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 8: the stock market and it puts billions of dollars into

561
00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 8: Tesla every year. And so this is also another aspect.

562
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:01,560
Speaker 8: This is this is the brought structural level on which

563
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:05,919
Speaker 8: on which US macroeconomic policy was designed to create a

564
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:08,000
Speaker 8: bunch of companies like Tesla and then US sort of

565
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:11,080
Speaker 8: like micro policy, the microcreation of markets to tax credits

566
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:13,640
Speaker 8: and you know all of these government contracts that they've

567
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:16,680
Speaker 8: been given to do like everything from like fucking build

568
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:20,440
Speaker 8: these cars to like put spy satellites in orbit, right,

569
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 8: and like the US is like contract he got started.

570
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:24,440
Speaker 8: Like now, I mean like all of this stuff, right,

571
00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:29,359
Speaker 8: is is literally how Elon Musk was created. Yeah, but

572
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:31,360
Speaker 8: there is a third.

573
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 3: Even deeper level in which you know, we can look

574
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:38,399
Speaker 3: at at how how these cars are actually produced and

575
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:40,880
Speaker 3: how these rockets are actually produced, and they're produced by

576
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:46,240
Speaker 3: just incredible the incredible exploitation of a huge number of workers.

577
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 3: And I think people tend to think about, you know,

578
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 3: Tesla workers in the US, but there's Tesla workers all

579
00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:54,320
Speaker 3: over the world. There's a huge gigafactory in shing John,

580
00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:57,840
Speaker 3: you know, there's factories all over China, and you know,

581
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:00,960
Speaker 3: these workers everywhere are paid like absolute shit they work

582
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,920
Speaker 3: in unbelievably dangerous conditions, and at the end of the

583
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,560
Speaker 3: day they get a very small amount of money so

584
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 3: that the richest man in the world can get fucking

585
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:09,160
Speaker 3: richer every day.

586
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:12,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's before we consider like ingredient parts to

587
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:17,640
Speaker 1: Tesla's right, you know that we we just addressed, for instance,

588
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 1: in our episode on Congo. Yeah, there are parts of

589
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 1: your test Geotesla that come out of this country where

590
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:26,480
Speaker 1: there has been a war for as long as most

591
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:29,919
Speaker 1: of us has been alive. Really very little effort has

592
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 1: gone into improving conditions for people there. Certainly for workers.

593
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 1: They're doing jobs that are essential to like our economy

594
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:40,760
Speaker 1: and to like Mia and my four for a one

595
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 1: k line going up comes from exploiting workers in Congo

596
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:47,480
Speaker 1: to an extent and elsewhere in the world.

597
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:49,919
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know this is something there's something our

598
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:52,200
Speaker 3: standard of living is based off of. But at the

599
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 3: end of the day, right Eon Musks, all of Elon

600
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:59,440
Speaker 3: Musk's profit comes from the fact that the States monopoly

601
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,840
Speaker 3: on violent is used to stop all of these people

602
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 3: from ever attempting to resist him. It's deployed in order

603
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 3: to stop these people from taking back the fucking value

604
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:13,439
Speaker 3: that they create. Now, Unfortunately, all of this sort of

605
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 3: neoliberal tinkering we've seen for the last fifty years, right,

606
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:20,679
Speaker 3: this attempts to sort of like depoliticize everything and have

607
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 3: everything run by neoliberal technocrats and sort of have this

608
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:26,240
Speaker 3: sort of like non politics where you're voting for two

609
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 3: parties that are like literally even more the same than

610
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:29,080
Speaker 3: they are.

611
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:29,439
Speaker 5: Now.

612
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 3: This attempt to do things like solve climate change to

613
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 3: these to these promotion of carbon markets and create the

614
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 3: sort of like stable like capitalist sogeniminy forever has ultimately

615
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:41,800
Speaker 3: been self defeating. It's why all attempts to regulate capital

616
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 3: inevitably fail, because the functioning of the capitalist system, and

617
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:49,160
Speaker 3: particularly the function of the way this version of neoliberalism

618
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:54,640
Speaker 3: has worked, has concentrated like the most wealth ever held

619
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 3: by a single human being into the hands of one

620
00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:00,239
Speaker 3: guy who was a Nazi. And then these people use

621
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:02,880
Speaker 3: their wealth to cubate political power and seize control of

622
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 3: the state, dismantling the systems that were meant to regulate them.

623
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 3: And you can't solve this problem with regulation because again,

624
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 3: eventually they will simply accumulate enough power, retake power, and

625
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 3: eliminate their regulations. You can't even solve this problem just

626
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:19,240
Speaker 3: by killing them. I see people talk about like the

627
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 3: killing of billionaires in China as like an example of this,

628
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:23,960
Speaker 3: and like a that's all political faction, lane fighting stuff,

629
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 3: and they'll execute people specifically to sort of appease like

630
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 3: the Chinese workers, so that they never have to fucking

631
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 3: watch the pla get right out of Shanghai again. But

632
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 3: the thing is, even if somehow you use the state

633
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 3: to just kill them, right, it doesn't work, because capitalism

634
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 3: will just produce more of these people. If you actually

635
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:44,360
Speaker 3: want to stop this, if you want to stop this

636
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 3: elon Musk from destroying the entire country and quite possibly

637
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 3: ending all life on earth by fucking with America's nuclear weapons,

638
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 3: and so they're simply not enough safety mechanisms to stop

639
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 3: someone from accidentally setting one off. You were going to

640
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:02,480
Speaker 3: have to destroy them completely. The permanent base of their power,

641
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:04,720
Speaker 3: the power of the oligarch, the power of the billionaire,

642
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:07,840
Speaker 3: the power of the dictator, must be broken. This tiny

643
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 3: group of men cannot as a class, be allowed to

644
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 3: own the stores and factories and fields and hospitals, supply

645
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 3: chains to produce everything we need to survive. It must

646
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:20,120
Speaker 3: belong to us. We create their wealth. The only way

647
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:22,920
Speaker 3: to save this world is to take it back. If

648
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:24,960
Speaker 3: we want to save democracy, the only way to do

649
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:27,520
Speaker 3: it is to extend democracy into the spheres where Elon

650
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:30,600
Speaker 3: Musk rules as a tyrant. Democracy must march into the

651
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 3: workplace to slay the beast that is lair before the

652
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:36,160
Speaker 3: despotism of the workplace consumes our political democracy and leaves

653
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:40,000
Speaker 3: us with despotism there too. They must cease to rule,

654
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 3: They must cease to exist not as individuals but as

655
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:45,680
Speaker 3: a class. And the only way to do that is

656
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:48,239
Speaker 3: by giving control of their power, and their property and

657
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 3: their wealth to the workers whose subjugation produced all of

658
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 3: it in the first place. That is the tax that

659
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 3: we have in front of us. The challenge that we

660
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:59,160
Speaker 3: face is that we face effectively the entire might of

661
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:01,280
Speaker 3: the American state, which is the one of the most

662
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:04,720
Speaker 3: powerful apparatus of repression that has ever been built. Our

663
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:07,960
Speaker 3: advantage is that that apparatus of repression is currently being

664
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 3: run by Donald Trump and Elon Musk, who are and

665
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 3: I cannot emphasize this enough. Maybe the two figures most

666
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:17,600
Speaker 3: emblematic of what the historian Mike Duncan's after his extensive

667
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 3: study of a whole bunch of revolutions on the Revolutions Podcast,

668
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 3: concluded to be the great idiots of history who either

669
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 3: their sheer and unmatched ability to make the wrong decision

670
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:33,200
Speaker 3: at every single moment are what makes revolutions possible. And

671
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:36,200
Speaker 3: if these people are not the great idiots of history

672
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 3: that allow us to bring them down and stop them

673
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:42,160
Speaker 3: from destroying everything that has ever been in this world

674
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 3: that is good, then nothing else is.

675
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:47,720
Speaker 7: Yeah.

676
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 1: We have the one great stroke of a good foiltime

677
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 1: we have, right, is that that the old Paris been

678
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 1: concentrated in the hands of complete idiots who are addicted

679
00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 1: to diet coke and being mad at that.

680
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:03,760
Speaker 3: You'll yep, And they you know, we have already seen.

681
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:06,120
Speaker 3: They don't understand how this apparatus works.

682
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:06,240
Speaker 5: Right.

683
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 3: They fired the nuke police by accident.

684
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:12,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's very funny that they're stripping themselves of

685
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:16,000
Speaker 1: the means of coercive violence. Yeah, when we start to

686
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 1: make you spoke about controlled opposition, right, and the idea

687
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:21,640
Speaker 1: that like the great debate of our time is how

688
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 1: much state regulation we should have and how much unfettered

689
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:28,160
Speaker 1: anarcha capitalism we should have. They are drinking the kool

690
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 1: aid that got them in power. That is the one

691
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 1: thing going in our favor right now, that they are

692
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:39,000
Speaker 1: dismantling the means of coercive violence because they genuinely believe

693
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:41,560
Speaker 1: the myth that if the state didn't exist, they could

694
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:44,240
Speaker 1: be even more wealthy and even more tyrannical.

695
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:47,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, and well, and the second advantage that we have

696
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 3: is that they have been they have said about systematically

697
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 3: alienating every single group of people who they would need

698
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 3: as their political base. They are pissing off the military,

699
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 3: they are pissing off the intelligence services. They are going through,

700
00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 3: and they are like systematically pissing off the farm states.

701
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 3: You know, like the farmers obviously do not have that

702
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 3: like don't fucking matter, but they're picking They're pissing off

703
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:06,960
Speaker 3: the agro businesses. They are individually going through and pissing

704
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:09,200
Speaker 3: off a whole bunch of the of the of the country.

705
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:12,120
Speaker 3: Scientific resources. They're going through, They're like fucking with the

706
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:16,080
Speaker 3: Social Security administration. They're individually going through and pissing off

707
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 3: every single group of people on earth who matter, and

708
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:22,440
Speaker 3: people who like us under this system aren't supposed to

709
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 3: matter until we fucking do something about it. And you know,

710
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 3: the other big thing that we have right now is

711
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 3: that he is pissing off massive sections of capital by

712
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 3: by actually doing these terrorists, which they didn't think he

713
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 3: would do, and by pulling apart his base of support,

714
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:39,240
Speaker 3: and by putting together coalitions of some of these people

715
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:40,520
Speaker 3: and not all of them, some of them. Some of

716
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 3: them you just need to divide and conquer by getting

717
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 3: them out from backing him, right, Like the whole thing

718
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 3: with the Bolsheviks taking over in the October Revolution was

719
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:50,720
Speaker 3: that but people just mostly stayed home and that was

720
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 3: how they won. Like that's that is largely what we need.

721
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 3: We need these people to stay home. But these people

722
00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:59,240
Speaker 3: can and will if we have anything to say about it,

723
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:02,480
Speaker 3: be fucking we'sriven home and hopefully we can bury both

724
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 3: the grave diggers and the people whose graves they were

725
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:07,680
Speaker 3: digging in the same spot in the dust bit of

726
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 3: history and never have to deal with these fucking assholes again.

727
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 4: Welcome to it could happen here to show that things

728
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:37,920
Speaker 4: falling apart. I'm Garrison Davis and I'm joined today by

729
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 4: a special guest host, Richard's Todd. Welcome back to the show.

730
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:44,359
Speaker 9: Ah, thank you, so much for having me. I am

731
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:46,759
Speaker 9: completely excited to be here. I am a listener of

732
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:48,719
Speaker 9: the show, so it feels like getting to be on

733
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:51,360
Speaker 9: a show that I actually freak out too often.

734
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:54,360
Speaker 4: And I'm very excited for you to be here because

735
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:57,720
Speaker 4: you have a special report on one of the people

736
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:04,440
Speaker 4: who I've been cyberstalking for you, and I'm very excited

737
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 4: to hear the details of what she's been up to

738
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:09,600
Speaker 4: these past few weeks. I kind of know the rough

739
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:13,360
Speaker 4: overview because again because of my cybers talking, but I've

740
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:15,880
Speaker 4: not done a deep dive the way you have, So

741
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,560
Speaker 4: I'm very excited to hear an update on this on

742
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:19,200
Speaker 4: this character.

743
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:21,399
Speaker 9: So it sounds like we are in a similar place

744
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:23,160
Speaker 9: when it comes to this person, and this person is

745
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:26,200
Speaker 9: none other than Candice Owens. First of all, what are

746
00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:29,640
Speaker 9: your thoughts on her? Because I am low key fascinated

747
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:32,399
Speaker 9: with her. I follow her on social media, I watch

748
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:33,840
Speaker 9: her videos like I am.

749
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:35,839
Speaker 7: Like weirdly captivated by her.

750
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:40,320
Speaker 4: I mean, I've I've covered her mostly through her involvement

751
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 4: with Daily Wire. I've talked a little bit about kind

752
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:46,040
Speaker 4: of how that'll fell apart, you know, like a year

753
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:48,359
Speaker 4: and a half ago or so, I've talked a little

754
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:51,280
Speaker 4: bit about her involvement in Turning Point USA with Charlie Kirk,

755
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:53,279
Speaker 4: and she's just kind of been one of like these

756
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:56,920
Speaker 4: like randomly, you know, like like orbiters, like the online

757
00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:00,319
Speaker 4: like right wing content sphere for like I don't know,

758
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:03,480
Speaker 4: the past six years at least, and I typically focused

759
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 4: more on like you know, like the Ben Shapiro's, the

760
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:07,920
Speaker 4: Matt Walsh's, you know, back in the day, the Stephen

761
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:10,920
Speaker 4: Crowders and stuff. But Candas was always just like around

762
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:14,320
Speaker 4: and like she definitely like went after a different demographic

763
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:17,280
Speaker 4: than what like my usual focuses, right Like I'm focused

764
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 4: on like what's going on with straight white men, like

765
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 4: why why are they like this? And who who is

766
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:26,960
Speaker 4: targeting them? And you know, and that's you know, that's

767
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:29,560
Speaker 4: like the Matt Walsh, like Stephen Crowder kind of angle.

768
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:31,840
Speaker 4: Like Candas Owens has like a kind of a broader

769
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 4: net that she targets with her content. So like she's

770
00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:36,760
Speaker 4: always kind of come up as like a side character.

771
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:39,360
Speaker 4: I don't think I've ever done like a distinct focus

772
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:41,880
Speaker 4: on her before besides just you know whatever kind of

773
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:44,680
Speaker 4: crazy post or like you know, anti trans or like

774
00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 4: very like weird like racist rank that she goes on

775
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:48,440
Speaker 4: like every once in a while.

776
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 9: Yes, so there is so much to talk about when

777
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:54,399
Speaker 9: it comes to Candace Owens. I'm sort of like you,

778
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:56,320
Speaker 9: like I sort of saw her as a side character,

779
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:59,640
Speaker 9: but only recently have I realized, like, oh, people in

780
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:03,240
Speaker 9: my life life are listening to Candace Owens and citing

781
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 9: Candace Owens and they have no idea any about her,

782
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:07,280
Speaker 9: anything about her backstory.

783
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:08,759
Speaker 7: Yeah, all the stuff that you that you were just

784
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:09,440
Speaker 7: talking about.

785
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:12,799
Speaker 4: She's like reinvented herself like multiple times. And you know,

786
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 4: some people who mainly come at this from like the

787
00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:17,920
Speaker 4: anti fascist research perspective might not be aware of her

788
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:20,719
Speaker 4: like latest rebrand, which is what I'm excited to hear

789
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:24,000
Speaker 4: about today. Yes, I just remembered how she had that

790
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 4: whole event with Kanye when she did her like BLM

791
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:31,359
Speaker 4: documentary that was a whole other Candace era. Yeah, so much,

792
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:31,880
Speaker 4: My god.

793
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:35,480
Speaker 9: I have to say I was like low key embarrassed

794
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:38,759
Speaker 9: for her because like during her Kanye West era, she

795
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:43,200
Speaker 9: was like, Kanye West designed the katore outfits for my

796
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:46,600
Speaker 9: Blexit movement, and Kanye West was like, no, I fucking didn't,

797
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:49,080
Speaker 9: And like I was like, Oh, they're so embarrassing that

798
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:52,680
Speaker 9: you like that, you like publicly aligned yourself with Kanye West,

799
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:57,439
Speaker 9: only for him to basically like diss you publicly right

800
00:37:57,520 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 9: after Yeah.

801
00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:01,160
Speaker 4: And then come out as like an explicit neo Nazi

802
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 4: like two weeks later.

803
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:04,480
Speaker 7: Yes, yes, uh, Candace girl.

804
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 9: So I want to talk about her, like, I don't

805
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:08,759
Speaker 9: want to spend too much time on her background, but

806
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 9: there are some pieces that I think like are good

807
00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:14,720
Speaker 9: for understanding kind of who she is, this chameleon figure

808
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 9: that she's been totally if there is not like a

809
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:19,440
Speaker 9: behind the bastard's on her, do you know, if there is,

810
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:20,920
Speaker 9: there should be If there's not.

811
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 4: Not yet, Like similarly on bastards, she's been one of

812
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:26,200
Speaker 4: these like recurring characters, Oh my god, but she has

813
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:27,480
Speaker 4: not had a distinct focus.

814
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:30,720
Speaker 9: Robert Evans, get on it, because we need the Candace

815
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:34,239
Speaker 9: Owens behind the bastard. So Candace grew up in Stanford, Connecticut.

816
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:36,880
Speaker 9: While she was a student there, she went through this

817
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:41,040
Speaker 9: horrible sounding racial harassment. A classmate left her like this

818
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:44,400
Speaker 9: racist death threat on her voicemail. That turned into like

819
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:47,480
Speaker 9: a pretty serious local scandal because it turned out the

820
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 9: student who made that threat via voicemail, did so in

821
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:54,480
Speaker 9: a car with a group of students that included the

822
00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:58,760
Speaker 9: sun of the then mayor and then future Democratic Governor

823
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:02,040
Speaker 9: of Connecticut, Daniel Malloy. So she got tons of support

824
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:05,080
Speaker 9: from the local chapter of the NAACP, and her family

825
00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:07,840
Speaker 9: ended up suing the Stamford Board of Education in federal

826
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 9: court for failing to protect her rights, resulting in a

827
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:13,520
Speaker 9: thirty seven thousand, five hundred dollars settlement. She went on

828
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:16,759
Speaker 9: to study journalism at University of Rhode Island before dropping out.

829
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:19,359
Speaker 4: This is like the early two thousands.

830
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 9: Yes, this was like young, like baby Candace, high school

831
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:27,719
Speaker 9: Candace before she was the Candace Owen that we know today. Yeah,

832
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 9: so I sort of like almost see a little bit

833
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:34,080
Speaker 9: of myself and where she got her start. Like me,

834
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:36,759
Speaker 9: She was an early adopter of using the Internet to

835
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:38,600
Speaker 9: talk about things like race and politics.

836
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:39,319
Speaker 7: Like me.

837
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:41,799
Speaker 9: That also seemed to sort of manifest in a lot

838
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:45,400
Speaker 9: of like low hanging fruit shit posts on the early

839
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:48,440
Speaker 9: days of blogging. Like in twenty fifteen, she was writing

840
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:51,319
Speaker 9: blogs making fun of Trump's penis size.

841
00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:53,680
Speaker 4: Sure, many such cases.

842
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:55,920
Speaker 7: Yes, many such cases.

843
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:58,680
Speaker 9: So in twenty fifteen, Owens is running a blog called

844
00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:02,440
Speaker 9: Degree one eighty, where she wrote pieces criticizing conservative Republicans,

845
00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:05,640
Speaker 9: writing about the quote that shit crazy antics of the

846
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:10,080
Speaker 9: Republican tea Party. The good news is they will eventually

847
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:12,600
Speaker 9: die off peacefully and in their sleep, we hope, and

848
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:15,080
Speaker 9: then we can get right on with the obvious social

849
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:18,240
Speaker 9: change that needs to happen immediately, she wrote on her blog.

850
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 9: So back then she was really someone who had like

851
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:23,759
Speaker 9: a progressive point of view and was doing a lot

852
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:27,359
Speaker 9: of public writing about what she was seeing and experiencing

853
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:28,839
Speaker 9: in politics at the time.

854
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:31,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, this is something that I guess some people

855
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:33,680
Speaker 4: might not know if they've only like become aware of

856
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:36,840
Speaker 4: her through daily wires. Yeah, like in the pre twenty

857
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:40,719
Speaker 4: sixteen like BuzzFeed internet kind of sphere. She was just

858
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:43,000
Speaker 4: like one of like these people who would yeah, have

859
00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:47,640
Speaker 4: like like you know, progressive like ish takes, criticize embarrassing

860
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:52,480
Speaker 4: like politicians, and like overtly racist stuff happening. And then

861
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:55,840
Speaker 4: the degree to which this this like heel turn happens

862
00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:58,399
Speaker 4: is like one of the most stark examples I've seen

863
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 4: in like a cop I don't know, I'm trying to

864
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:03,240
Speaker 4: think of it. If there's like any like exact parallel.

865
00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:05,759
Speaker 4: I don't know, like there's like certainly some like detransition

866
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 4: like a grifters. There used to be like ex gay

867
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:12,920
Speaker 4: influencers or you know this like like proto influencers kind

868
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:15,880
Speaker 4: of before influencers were a thing like x gay speakers.

869
00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:20,280
Speaker 4: But yeah, the switch around on Candace from these blog

870
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:22,400
Speaker 4: posts is so concentrated.

871
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 9: So in her own words, she describes it as happening overnight.

872
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:27,279
Speaker 3: There you go.

873
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:30,840
Speaker 7: Yeah, how it happened is like fascinating to me.

874
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:33,720
Speaker 9: So in twenty sixteen, when Gamergate was in full swing,

875
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:37,480
Speaker 9: Owen's launched a Kickstarter for a project called Social Autopsy,

876
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:40,160
Speaker 9: which she described as a way to catalog the abuses

877
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:44,120
Speaker 9: of trolls and cyberbullies. Fun fact that Kickstarter is still

878
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:46,880
Speaker 9: up today, it is such a weird time capsule of

879
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:49,600
Speaker 9: a different time. There's like a video of her speaking

880
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:52,239
Speaker 9: earnestly about the need to like have the Internet be

881
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:52,640
Speaker 9: a like.

882
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:54,960
Speaker 7: Safer, more equitable landscape.

883
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:57,920
Speaker 9: It is nuts, Like people shall go listen to her

884
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:01,960
Speaker 9: speaking about this project. So the plan for this project

885
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:05,680
Speaker 9: was essentially that she would create a way to de

886
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:09,239
Speaker 9: anonymize online commentators and then connect them with like their

887
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:12,880
Speaker 9: real names and their real life employers. And what's so

888
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:15,840
Speaker 9: funny is that, like that is the very same argument

889
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 9: that a lot of people use, people who like want

890
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:21,640
Speaker 9: to restrict the open Internet still use today that like

891
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:25,160
Speaker 9: problems on the Internet, online harassment and abuse would all

892
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:28,240
Speaker 9: be improved if only everybody had to use their government

893
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:31,080
Speaker 9: idea and government names to access the Internet. And so like,

894
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:34,799
Speaker 9: it's very funny that that idea it was bad then,

895
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:37,800
Speaker 9: and it didn't really die, it was just recycled into today.

896
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:41,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, like there's a version of this that happens,

897
00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:42,719
Speaker 4: or at least it kind of used to happen more

898
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:45,040
Speaker 4: in regards to like anti fascist research, where like you're

899
00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:49,720
Speaker 4: like identify specific like extremely racist accounts or like explicit

900
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:53,080
Speaker 4: neo Nazis and contact their employer in in an attempt

901
00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:54,760
Speaker 4: to get to get them fired so they can focus

902
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:58,120
Speaker 4: on getting a new job and supporting themselves rather than

903
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:02,440
Speaker 4: doing racism online and in person, especially if he's like,

904
00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:05,360
Speaker 4: you know, a member of like a group, whether that

905
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:07,759
Speaker 4: be you know, the Proud Boys back in the day

906
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:11,719
Speaker 4: or many many other groups Patriot Prayer now, Patriot Front,

907
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:14,240
Speaker 4: that sort of thing. It's funny how hated this tactic

908
00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:16,880
Speaker 4: is soon to be by people like Candice and the

909
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:21,000
Speaker 4: Daily Wire people. But here she's advocating it herself exactly,

910
00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:24,160
Speaker 4: and they just like post Anita Sarkisian kind of content

911
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:25,000
Speaker 4: like world.

912
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:29,440
Speaker 9: Yeah, so pretty much everybody thought this was a bad idea,

913
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:33,200
Speaker 9: including video game developer Zoe Quinn, who folks might remember

914
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:36,360
Speaker 9: was kind of at the center of Gamergate and was

915
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:41,200
Speaker 9: like viciously attacked. Owens was subsequently harassed and docs, and

916
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:44,600
Speaker 9: she blamed Zoe Quinn and other feminists for this and

917
00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:48,480
Speaker 9: said so publicly as you can probably guess, like people

918
00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:52,200
Speaker 9: like Milo Gyanopolis loved this. People who were promoters of

919
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:56,040
Speaker 9: Gamergate really hyped up Owens's claims that like, yes, feminists

920
00:43:56,080 --> 00:43:58,360
Speaker 9: were actually the ones doing all the online harassing.

921
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:00,839
Speaker 4: Okay, I can see this is going.

922
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:05,120
Speaker 9: So this event is what Owen's credits with her turn

923
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:09,280
Speaker 9: from progressive to quote becoming a red pilled radical. She says,

924
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:12,719
Speaker 9: I became a conservative overnight. I realized that liberals were

925
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:16,960
Speaker 9: actually the racists. Liberals were actually the trolls. She starts

926
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:20,560
Speaker 9: promoting right wing viewpoints on her YouTube channel, calling herself

927
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:23,719
Speaker 9: quote red pill black, which I gotta say is like

928
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:27,239
Speaker 9: pretty good branding, Like, I'm not mad at the branding there.

929
00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:29,759
Speaker 9: I was like, Okay, black woman talking about like right

930
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:30,920
Speaker 9: wing stuff, red pill.

931
00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:31,759
Speaker 7: Black I get it. I get it.

932
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:35,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm interested to see how much the checkbook was

933
00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:39,720
Speaker 4: a consideration here. Oh yes, how much your kickstarter god

934
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:41,960
Speaker 4: versus how much she realized she could get if she

935
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:44,280
Speaker 4: jumped on the other side of the content churn.

936
00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:49,160
Speaker 9: Well, she almost instantly gets noticed by Charlie Kirk, founder

937
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:52,200
Speaker 9: of Turning Points USA Right, and he hires her almost immediately.

938
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:56,919
Speaker 9: She starts cranking out these videos that really perform quite well,

939
00:44:56,920 --> 00:45:00,719
Speaker 9: that her videos really go viral. Video where she's doing

940
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:04,840
Speaker 9: things like dismissing the twenty seventeen white supremacist Unite the

941
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:08,160
Speaker 9: Right rally in Charlottesville. Alex Jones gets her to co

942
00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 9: host some of his info War shows. She's doing stints

943
00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:13,920
Speaker 9: on Fox News as a paid commentator. Like business is

944
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:15,920
Speaker 9: booming for Candace Owens from this.

945
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:19,040
Speaker 4: Turn Yeah, this is around when I became aware of her.

946
00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:22,200
Speaker 9: Yes, in twenty twenty one, she joins up with The

947
00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:26,320
Speaker 9: Daily Wire. There was so much fanfare around them hiring

948
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:29,399
Speaker 9: Candace like it was a big deal. She moved to Nashville,

949
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:33,120
Speaker 9: fun fact, there was even a House joint resolution House

950
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:36,240
Speaker 9: Joint Resolution three fifty, a resolution in the Tennessee government

951
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:40,600
Speaker 9: to congratulate Candace Owens on relocating to Tennessee and for

952
00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:44,280
Speaker 9: her work at Daily Wire. That reads whereas miss Owens

953
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:48,040
Speaker 9: has earned the admiration and respect of millions of Americans

954
00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:50,480
Speaker 9: through her activism in support of President Trump as a

955
00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:53,960
Speaker 9: black woman and her perceptive criticism of creeping socialism and

956
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:55,719
Speaker 9: leftist political tyranny.

957
00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:57,120
Speaker 3: Very cool stuff.

958
00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:02,399
Speaker 9: Yeah, imagine it being like a joint resolution in your

959
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:04,520
Speaker 9: local government when you move someplace.

960
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:08,399
Speaker 4: Yeah, the governor of Tennessee was like super excited when

961
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:11,319
Speaker 4: the Daily Wire relocated their headquarters to Tennessee and brought

962
00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:13,560
Speaker 4: in all these people. Like there was there was like

963
00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:16,320
Speaker 4: so many like private dinners meetings. There was like a

964
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:20,759
Speaker 4: like a number of resolutions welcoming the Daily Wire to

965
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:24,120
Speaker 4: Tennessee in this like twenty twenty one period as they

966
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:26,680
Speaker 4: were just starting to like launch their own like streaming

967
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:29,640
Speaker 4: service website, which is why they recruited Candice is because

968
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:32,200
Speaker 4: they were looking for content creators to fill out their slate.

969
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:35,000
Speaker 9: So you would think that this should be like a

970
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:38,600
Speaker 9: match made in heaven, right, smooth sailing. They need insidiary

971
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:42,080
Speaker 9: content creators. She's an insidiary content creator. Should be a

972
00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:46,000
Speaker 9: match made in heaven. Perfect Not quite, because things end

973
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:50,839
Speaker 9: in like this really messy public fallout just a few

974
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:53,840
Speaker 9: years later. So I know that you've done episodes on

975
00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:55,920
Speaker 9: this from my perspective, and I would love to know

976
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:59,239
Speaker 9: what you think. It's not one hundred percent clear what

977
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:03,200
Speaker 9: went down, but the public friction between Candace Owens and

978
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 9: Ben Shapiro, one of the founders of Daily Wire, it

979
00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:10,520
Speaker 9: seemed to be like related to reactions around the situation

980
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:11,400
Speaker 9: in Gaza.

981
00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:12,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, totally so.

982
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:16,000
Speaker 7: Ben Shapiro is Jewish and Owens, as we.

983
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:18,560
Speaker 9: Said, has said and done like a lot of anti

984
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:20,279
Speaker 9: Semitic stuff, like a lot and.

985
00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:24,040
Speaker 4: Like actual anti Semitic stuff like that people use that

986
00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:29,040
Speaker 4: as a way to like shut down like very very

987
00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:33,200
Speaker 4: admirable like like like Propelstinian like activism. No, like Candas

988
00:47:33,239 --> 00:47:35,840
Speaker 4: owns just is anti semitic and this it's like the

989
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:39,160
Speaker 4: same thing with like Jackson Hinkele, and she made it

990
00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:43,800
Speaker 4: like an escalating series of anti semitic claims after October seventh,

991
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:47,840
Speaker 4: which which slowly kind of like broke with the company

992
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:49,359
Speaker 4: and ben like more and more and more of an

993
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:52,480
Speaker 4: over series of a few months. Yes, and it's it's

994
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:55,279
Speaker 4: it's funny because like it also kind of mirrors this

995
00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:57,800
Speaker 4: like online fight she had with Stephen Crowder like a

996
00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:00,960
Speaker 4: year or so prior when Daily Wire trying to recruit him,

997
00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:04,520
Speaker 4: and then she got informed about like how like abusive

998
00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:06,880
Speaker 4: he was to his wife, and then she went on

999
00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:09,520
Speaker 4: like a media blitz like against him as like as

1000
00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:12,560
Speaker 4: he was in negotiations like with the Daily Wire. She's

1001
00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:16,080
Speaker 4: like very willing to like stir shit up, like even

1002
00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:17,920
Speaker 4: if it like goes against her own interests or the

1003
00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:20,440
Speaker 4: interests of like whatever company she works for, Like she is,

1004
00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:23,040
Speaker 4: she is absolutely willing to like make like some kind

1005
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:25,960
Speaker 4: of like chaotic spectacle regardless of her own like you know,

1006
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:27,600
Speaker 4: financial security.

1007
00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:30,200
Speaker 9: I guess yes, like she I'm so glad that you

1008
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:32,960
Speaker 9: mentioned that she is not afraid to get down and

1009
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:36,080
Speaker 9: dirty in public. And I do think, like, you know,

1010
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:39,160
Speaker 9: as a black woman who works with a lot of

1011
00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:41,880
Speaker 9: white men, I would imagine that she's probably thinking, like,

1012
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:44,879
Speaker 9: I have to have some kind of decorum. I don't

1013
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:47,160
Speaker 9: want anyone to say that I'm being a crazy black

1014
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:47,880
Speaker 9: woman or whatever.

1015
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:49,719
Speaker 7: She it's it seems like.

1016
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:52,040
Speaker 9: She has no such qualms, Like she is like I will,

1017
00:48:52,560 --> 00:48:55,719
Speaker 9: I will make this a public, messy fight, and I

1018
00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:58,760
Speaker 9: am not afraid to make a genuine spectacle of myself. Yeah,

1019
00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:00,680
Speaker 9: and so it is really important to note that, like

1020
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:04,879
Speaker 9: as you said, she wasn't just like criticizing the Israeli state.

1021
00:49:05,239 --> 00:49:08,239
Speaker 9: She was like getting into like blood liable and like

1022
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:10,239
Speaker 9: deep conspiracy theories.

1023
00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:13,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, it was. There was some really nasty posts.

1024
00:49:14,080 --> 00:49:15,960
Speaker 9: Yeah, Like one of the things that she said, She's

1025
00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 9: claimed that Judaism was quote a pedophile centric religion that

1026
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:22,360
Speaker 9: believes in demons and child sacrifice, and that she was

1027
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:25,640
Speaker 9: waking people up to the fact that pedophiles are in power, like.

1028
00:49:25,640 --> 00:49:26,239
Speaker 7: Stuff like that.

1029
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:28,880
Speaker 4: Not great, not good, not good.

1030
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:32,480
Speaker 9: So, as you said, like this starts to become like

1031
00:49:32,520 --> 00:49:36,360
Speaker 9: a public feud toward her employer. She wrote on Twitter,

1032
00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:39,279
Speaker 9: no one can serve two masters and ended her post

1033
00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:42,920
Speaker 9: writing you cannot serve both God and money, which Ben Shapiro,

1034
00:49:43,239 --> 00:49:47,640
Speaker 9: her boss, tweets like quote tweeted, oh my God, Like Candice,

1035
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:49,640
Speaker 9: if you feel that taking money from the Daily Wire

1036
00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:52,279
Speaker 9: somehow that comes between you and God, by all means quit,

1037
00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:54,920
Speaker 9: Like messy is there It's crazy.

1038
00:49:54,520 --> 00:49:58,480
Speaker 4: That instead of having like a company meeting, they were

1039
00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:00,000
Speaker 4: just doing this on Twitter.

1040
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:03,000
Speaker 9: Oh my god, and my messy ass was eating it up.

1041
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:05,080
Speaker 9: I was like, keep fighting, let him fight.

1042
00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:08,799
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, no, absolutely, I'm totally willing to like watch this,

1043
00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:11,240
Speaker 4: watch this go down. I do not want to get involved,

1044
00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:11,919
Speaker 4: right right right.

1045
00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:15,000
Speaker 9: Owens like went on took her Carlson Show and said

1046
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:19,280
Speaker 9: that Ben Shapiro was quote acting unprofessional and emotionally unhinged

1047
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:22,480
Speaker 9: for weeks now. She said that Shapiro quote crossed a

1048
00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:24,960
Speaker 9: certain line. When you come for scripture and read yourself

1049
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:26,799
Speaker 9: into it, I will not tolerate it.

1050
00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:27,640
Speaker 4: Very cool.

1051
00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:31,560
Speaker 9: Yeah, So, at one point, Owens tweets that she wants

1052
00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:34,279
Speaker 9: Ben Shapiro to have a public like debate with her,

1053
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:38,160
Speaker 9: moderated by podcaster Patrick Bett Davide. Ben Shapiro was having

1054
00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:41,480
Speaker 9: none of this, he tweets, Candice, I can see why

1055
00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:44,080
Speaker 9: you'd want to hide behind a moderator, particularly one who

1056
00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:47,320
Speaker 9: said we should rename our company quote daily Jewish Wire

1057
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:48,600
Speaker 9: just yesterday.

1058
00:50:48,520 --> 00:50:50,959
Speaker 7: No Jesus one on one Monday at.

1059
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:52,880
Speaker 9: Five, we can sit down and have a healthy debate

1060
00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:55,320
Speaker 9: like adults, and we'll live stream it on x and YouTube.

1061
00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:57,880
Speaker 9: Take it or leave it as to the true reason

1062
00:50:57,920 --> 00:50:59,839
Speaker 9: why you didn't respond to my offer to sit down

1063
00:50:59,840 --> 00:51:02,040
Speaker 9: with you and discuss these issues publicly or privately back

1064
00:51:02,040 --> 00:51:04,200
Speaker 9: in February. I have no idea what the hell you're

1065
00:51:04,239 --> 00:51:07,960
Speaker 9: talking about. Like, this is employer employee going at it

1066
00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:08,680
Speaker 9: on Twitter.

1067
00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:11,520
Speaker 4: I can't believe I'm taking Ben Shapiro's side here, not

1068
00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:14,600
Speaker 4: just because he's Ben Shapiro, but also because he's an employer.

1069
00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:18,160
Speaker 4: But it's a really it's a really tough situation here.

1070
00:51:18,640 --> 00:51:21,920
Speaker 9: Yeah, I feel the same way, because, like it's just

1071
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:23,840
Speaker 9: not a great look to have somebody that you just

1072
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:26,799
Speaker 9: hired to all this fanfare coming at you like this

1073
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:28,880
Speaker 9: on Twitter, like and I think, I mean, this is

1074
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:31,120
Speaker 9: just my opinion, so like take that for what it's worth,

1075
00:51:31,560 --> 00:51:33,319
Speaker 9: just as somebody who has worked in media and been

1076
00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:36,040
Speaker 9: around the block. The reason why I'm not comfortable saying

1077
00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:40,600
Speaker 9: like their feud was entirely based on Owens's anti Semitic

1078
00:51:40,680 --> 00:51:44,400
Speaker 9: comments and behavior is that she just went so hard

1079
00:51:44,520 --> 00:51:47,439
Speaker 9: and so public that something to me, I almost wonder

1080
00:51:47,480 --> 00:51:49,880
Speaker 9: if there was like a contract dispute here that like

1081
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:52,160
Speaker 9: she was like, oh, I can make more money on

1082
00:51:52,160 --> 00:51:54,680
Speaker 9: my own totally gotta get out of this contract or something,

1083
00:51:54,719 --> 00:51:56,279
Speaker 9: because like it just doesn't smell right.

1084
00:51:56,320 --> 00:51:59,080
Speaker 4: I mean, yeah, if she had like an inclination that

1085
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:01,080
Speaker 4: she could afford to lose his job because you might

1086
00:52:01,120 --> 00:52:03,399
Speaker 4: make more money on her own, then yeah, absolutely that

1087
00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:05,719
Speaker 4: that would allow her to push this further than what

1088
00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:08,319
Speaker 4: she might otherwise might Like there's been a lot of

1089
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:10,279
Speaker 4: a lot of discussion in the right wing contents fear

1090
00:52:10,320 --> 00:52:14,120
Speaker 4: about like the Daily Wire's fairly restrictive contracts despite still

1091
00:52:14,160 --> 00:52:16,920
Speaker 4: getting paid like tens of millions of dollars, there is

1092
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:19,920
Speaker 4: like restrictions on like what happens when you lose monetization

1093
00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:22,400
Speaker 4: because the Daily Wires like a company trying to make

1094
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:24,920
Speaker 4: a profit. So totally, I think there could absolutely be

1095
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:27,439
Speaker 4: other financial stuff going on here. I think it's more

1096
00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:30,520
Speaker 4: like an interlocking series of issues rather than just one

1097
00:52:30,560 --> 00:52:31,320
Speaker 4: thing or another.

1098
00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:37,120
Speaker 9: Yes, So, after Rabbi Schmooley Boteach criticized Owens for her

1099
00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:40,920
Speaker 9: defenses of Kanye West, Owens liked to tweet asking Bouteach

1100
00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:44,799
Speaker 9: if he was quote drunk on Christian blood again, And

1101
00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:48,239
Speaker 9: I guess that was the final straw. A few days later,

1102
00:52:48,360 --> 00:52:51,680
Speaker 9: Daily Wire and Candace Owens ended their relationship with Owen's

1103
00:52:51,680 --> 00:53:09,000
Speaker 9: tweeting the rumors are true, I am finally free. Okay,

1104
00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:12,279
Speaker 9: So that's what happened with her and Daily Wire. So

1105
00:53:12,760 --> 00:53:15,080
Speaker 9: where is she now? Well, this is where the story

1106
00:53:15,080 --> 00:53:18,480
Speaker 9: gets interesting because I had not heard from Candice Owens

1107
00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:21,120
Speaker 9: in a minute, and my reintroduction to her appened recently,

1108
00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:22,480
Speaker 9: and what I was trying to make sense of the

1109
00:53:22,520 --> 00:53:27,040
Speaker 9: dispute between two Hollywood A listers, Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni.

1110
00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:29,919
Speaker 9: So the issue between Blake and Justin it's a little

1111
00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:33,720
Speaker 9: bit complicated and ongoing, but it's actually a pretty interesting

1112
00:53:33,760 --> 00:53:35,680
Speaker 9: story that includes a lot of things that I enjoy,

1113
00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:39,440
Speaker 9: like how celebrities use media and how social media platforms

1114
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:43,279
Speaker 9: can be weaponized for or against specific people. Email correspondence

1115
00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:46,319
Speaker 9: where people make themselves look terrible in writing because they

1116
00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:49,200
Speaker 9: do not expect those emails to be in a deposition later.

1117
00:53:49,320 --> 00:53:51,000
Speaker 9: Like that is my favorite thing in the world, Like,

1118
00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:53,520
Speaker 9: please continue to put your wrongdoing in writing so that

1119
00:53:53,640 --> 00:53:56,520
Speaker 9: my nosey ask and read it later and be like, ooh, messy.

1120
00:53:58,400 --> 00:54:00,960
Speaker 9: So I do encourage like folks to read up on

1121
00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:03,640
Speaker 9: it because it does go beyond just like two celebrities

1122
00:54:03,640 --> 00:54:05,880
Speaker 9: having a feud, but you don't really need to know

1123
00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:08,960
Speaker 9: the specifics for our purposes. The quick and dirty version

1124
00:54:09,080 --> 00:54:11,960
Speaker 9: is that Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni were in a

1125
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:15,120
Speaker 9: movie adaptation of the very popular novel by Colleen Hoover

1126
00:54:15,239 --> 00:54:18,239
Speaker 9: called It Starts with Us. In December, Lively filed a

1127
00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:21,520
Speaker 9: legal complaint against Baldoni, accusing him of sexual harassment and

1128
00:54:21,560 --> 00:54:25,080
Speaker 9: starting a smear campaign against her. Baldoni strongly denies that

1129
00:54:25,160 --> 00:54:28,080
Speaker 9: and has sued her. In response, both camps have released

1130
00:54:28,120 --> 00:54:31,640
Speaker 9: information like emails, text messages, and video that attempting to

1131
00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:34,879
Speaker 9: make the other look bad. So it has kind of

1132
00:54:34,920 --> 00:54:37,840
Speaker 9: turned into one of those ink blot tests that changes

1133
00:54:37,880 --> 00:54:40,839
Speaker 9: depending on whose version you buy. Version one is that

1134
00:54:40,920 --> 00:54:44,200
Speaker 9: Blake Lively was being sexually harassed on set by a

1135
00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:48,319
Speaker 9: fake feminist ally who is actually an abusive man, or

1136
00:54:48,920 --> 00:54:52,440
Speaker 9: version two that Blake Lively is an egomaniac who was

1137
00:54:52,520 --> 00:54:55,640
Speaker 9: using her star power and a list celebrity network like

1138
00:54:55,640 --> 00:54:58,800
Speaker 9: her husband Ryan Reynolds from Deadpool to control the narrative

1139
00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:02,000
Speaker 9: around her being a nightmare on set and steamrolling everybody

1140
00:55:02,040 --> 00:55:07,120
Speaker 9: on this project. Cool, yes, and so it's what's interesting

1141
00:55:07,160 --> 00:55:08,960
Speaker 9: about this to me is that it's one of those

1142
00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:13,640
Speaker 9: stories where algorithmically it depends on what silo or what

1143
00:55:13,680 --> 00:55:16,920
Speaker 9: pocket of the Internet you're at sure to determine, like

1144
00:55:16,960 --> 00:55:18,759
Speaker 9: what version of this story you're getting, like much like

1145
00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:20,440
Speaker 9: Johnny Depp's deformation lawsuits.

1146
00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:22,120
Speaker 4: Sounds too much like the Johnny Depp thing.

1147
00:55:22,239 --> 00:55:27,239
Speaker 9: Yeah, exactly, exactly, and so like, for whatever reason, TikTok

1148
00:55:27,400 --> 00:55:30,320
Speaker 9: thinks I hate Blake Lively and want to pour over

1149
00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:33,400
Speaker 9: every nuance of how she is a fraud right like,

1150
00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:37,000
Speaker 9: but someone else's TikTok might be like, no, Blake Lively,

1151
00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:37,920
Speaker 9: we should.

1152
00:55:37,640 --> 00:55:38,319
Speaker 7: Be supporting her.

1153
00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:40,719
Speaker 9: Like. It's one of those situations where just depending on

1154
00:55:40,760 --> 00:55:42,319
Speaker 9: where you are on the Internet, you might get a

1155
00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:45,600
Speaker 9: very different impression of the public sentiment, leaning one way

1156
00:55:45,719 --> 00:55:46,120
Speaker 9: or another.

1157
00:55:46,560 --> 00:55:48,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, this is all the types of things I

1158
00:55:48,680 --> 00:55:53,200
Speaker 4: try to avoid learning about at almost all costs. So, yes,

1159
00:55:53,520 --> 00:55:55,040
Speaker 4: I do not like you, you know.

1160
00:55:55,200 --> 00:55:57,840
Speaker 9: So I was trying to get to the bottom of

1161
00:55:57,880 --> 00:55:59,719
Speaker 9: it because I kept hearing about it, like everyone was

1162
00:55:59,719 --> 00:56:02,480
Speaker 9: talking about it. So I'm talking to my cousins, who

1163
00:56:02,560 --> 00:56:05,759
Speaker 9: I would lovingly describe as normies and that they are

1164
00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:08,319
Speaker 9: not super online. It's like they're not like you and me,

1165
00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:11,000
Speaker 9: They're not like deep into the depths of extremism or

1166
00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:11,640
Speaker 9: anything like that.

1167
00:56:11,960 --> 00:56:14,960
Speaker 4: No, they're not watching like the Daily Wire for fun

1168
00:56:15,120 --> 00:56:16,000
Speaker 4: Slash four works.

1169
00:56:16,160 --> 00:56:19,520
Speaker 9: Yes, yeah, and my cousins are like, oh my god,

1170
00:56:19,880 --> 00:56:22,200
Speaker 9: there is this black girl journalist who has been following

1171
00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:24,799
Speaker 9: everything and breaking it down. She has all the tea

1172
00:56:24,920 --> 00:56:30,319
Speaker 9: will tag you. That journalist was Candace Owens. Okay, so

1173
00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:34,560
Speaker 9: all right, you know, Candace has been making so many

1174
00:56:34,640 --> 00:56:37,120
Speaker 9: videos off of this and like her coverage, if you

1175
00:56:37,360 --> 00:56:40,920
Speaker 9: coverage in quotes, has really taken off online. As The

1176
00:56:40,960 --> 00:56:43,239
Speaker 9: Cut put it in a piece called Candace Owens has

1177
00:56:43,239 --> 00:56:46,960
Speaker 9: gone mainstream, they write the right wing commentators coverage of

1178
00:56:47,000 --> 00:56:50,400
Speaker 9: the Blake Lively Justin Baldonnie case has reached millions of viewers.

1179
00:56:50,719 --> 00:56:54,080
Speaker 9: Owens podcast was hours and hours of analysis of the case,

1180
00:56:54,280 --> 00:56:58,080
Speaker 9: deep dives into court filings, tabloid news stories, even Ryan Reynolds'

1181
00:56:58,160 --> 00:57:01,920
Speaker 9: recent snl Fiftheist Anniversary Space Secal appearance. One listener said,

1182
00:57:02,160 --> 00:57:04,759
Speaker 9: she's really been able to go in and pinpoint discrepancies

1183
00:57:04,760 --> 00:57:07,000
Speaker 9: and some of the things Blake Lively said, rather than

1184
00:57:07,080 --> 00:57:08,520
Speaker 9: us having to go through it on our own.

1185
00:57:08,640 --> 00:57:12,120
Speaker 4: Ah. Of course, it's the woman who's lying about being

1186
00:57:12,160 --> 00:57:13,359
Speaker 4: sexually harassed of course.

1187
00:57:14,239 --> 00:57:17,120
Speaker 9: One listener of her podcast says she recognizes that Owen

1188
00:57:17,200 --> 00:57:20,120
Speaker 9: seems to have a pro Buldani bias, but she doesn't

1189
00:57:20,120 --> 00:57:22,720
Speaker 9: care because, quote, she's urging us to look past the

1190
00:57:22,760 --> 00:57:24,600
Speaker 9: fact that this is not a feminist issue at all,

1191
00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:27,560
Speaker 9: that it's about getting justice for whoever is being wronged here,

1192
00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:29,560
Speaker 9: she's uniting the left and the right.

1193
00:57:30,080 --> 00:57:32,080
Speaker 7: The right wing Women's.

1194
00:57:31,640 --> 00:57:35,400
Speaker 9: Magazine also published a headline about this, saying how Candice

1195
00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:38,320
Speaker 9: Owens is uniting conservatives and liberal with her it ends

1196
00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:42,800
Speaker 9: with US coverage. So her coverage of this dispute has

1197
00:57:42,920 --> 00:57:44,760
Speaker 9: really allowed her to attract.

1198
00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:47,680
Speaker 7: A lot more viewers beyond her like normal right.

1199
00:57:47,520 --> 00:57:51,080
Speaker 9: Wing extremist base, which has generally been like a lot

1200
00:57:51,120 --> 00:57:53,560
Speaker 9: of white men like that who was really listening to

1201
00:57:53,600 --> 00:57:56,520
Speaker 9: her content before when she was with Dailey Wier. Now

1202
00:57:56,800 --> 00:58:00,360
Speaker 9: she has really branched out. So like normy, like my

1203
00:58:00,440 --> 00:58:03,480
Speaker 9: cousins who have no idea who Owens is, have no

1204
00:58:03,560 --> 00:58:06,320
Speaker 9: idea her background, her past, the work that she has done,

1205
00:58:06,520 --> 00:58:09,400
Speaker 9: and just think like, oh, she's a normal entertainment journalist,

1206
00:58:09,440 --> 00:58:10,680
Speaker 9: like digging and getting the dirt.

1207
00:58:10,880 --> 00:58:12,480
Speaker 4: I know she's doing this like on her podcast, I

1208
00:58:12,520 --> 00:58:14,880
Speaker 4: assume YouTube as well. She also just like trying to

1209
00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:18,720
Speaker 4: like flood TikTok, trying to flood like Instagram reachs. Is

1210
00:58:18,760 --> 00:58:20,439
Speaker 4: this kind of part of how she's trying to like

1211
00:58:20,520 --> 00:58:21,440
Speaker 4: expand her reach.

1212
00:58:22,080 --> 00:58:24,880
Speaker 9: It is like she's everywhere, and then she has her

1213
00:58:24,960 --> 00:58:27,840
Speaker 9: longer form podcast than YouTube. But then clips of her

1214
00:58:28,000 --> 00:58:31,640
Speaker 9: like you know, breaking down the top lies or top

1215
00:58:31,840 --> 00:58:35,080
Speaker 9: inaccuracies and things that Blake Lively has said. Those go

1216
00:58:35,400 --> 00:58:39,480
Speaker 9: super viral on social media. The short clips yeah okay,

1217
00:58:39,640 --> 00:58:43,080
Speaker 9: and all of this has been just gangbusters for her

1218
00:58:43,120 --> 00:58:44,160
Speaker 9: growth and engagement.

1219
00:58:44,480 --> 00:58:45,480
Speaker 7: Here's how The Cut put it.

1220
00:58:45,960 --> 00:58:49,360
Speaker 9: Since Owen started covering the Lively Baldani case, her YouTube

1221
00:58:49,400 --> 00:58:52,760
Speaker 9: channel has exploded in popularity, allowing her to attract a

1222
00:58:52,800 --> 00:58:55,920
Speaker 9: much larger fan base than the audience of hardcore conservatives

1223
00:58:56,040 --> 00:58:59,000
Speaker 9: she is amassed over the years. Each episode about Lively

1224
00:58:59,200 --> 00:59:02,040
Speaker 9: racks up at least one point five million views. In

1225
00:59:02,080 --> 00:59:04,400
Speaker 9: the past month alone, Owens has i asked more than

1226
00:59:04,440 --> 00:59:07,120
Speaker 9: four hundred and fifty thousand new subscribers on YouTube, and

1227
00:59:07,160 --> 00:59:10,760
Speaker 9: her total video views have quadrupled since this time last year.

1228
00:59:10,840 --> 00:59:14,520
Speaker 9: This is according to data from the platform's social blade

1229
00:59:14,760 --> 00:59:17,080
Speaker 9: oh No. Over the past three months, her audience on

1230
00:59:17,120 --> 00:59:20,360
Speaker 9: YouTube has almost started skewing sixty five percent female according

1231
00:59:20,360 --> 00:59:23,280
Speaker 9: to data provided by a spokesperson, a market shift from

1232
00:59:23,280 --> 00:59:27,240
Speaker 9: her past fan base. So yeah, she's exploding in popularity.

1233
00:59:27,320 --> 00:59:31,240
Speaker 9: She's everywhere, and now she's attracting like normy women who

1234
00:59:31,320 --> 00:59:33,600
Speaker 9: are just coming in for the celebrity dispute.

1235
00:59:33,880 --> 00:59:36,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's probably not gonna end well.

1236
00:59:36,680 --> 00:59:39,240
Speaker 7: Huh, well, I don't think it will end well.

1237
00:59:39,440 --> 00:59:41,280
Speaker 9: You know, I was like racking my brain trying to

1238
00:59:41,280 --> 00:59:44,200
Speaker 9: figure out, like, why has this story taken off so

1239
00:59:44,320 --> 00:59:46,000
Speaker 9: much for Owens? And there are a couple of reasons.

1240
00:59:46,000 --> 00:59:49,040
Speaker 9: I think this is like working for her. One, I

1241
00:59:49,080 --> 00:59:52,960
Speaker 9: hate to say it, but she is actually genuinely interesting

1242
00:59:53,080 --> 00:59:56,640
Speaker 9: to listen to. You know, when she was a progressive

1243
00:59:56,920 --> 00:59:59,680
Speaker 9: voice online, she definitely was somebody who had a point

1244
00:59:59,720 --> 01:00:01,880
Speaker 9: of view when a clear voice and a perspective, and

1245
01:00:01,920 --> 01:00:04,600
Speaker 9: that really that really comes through when she's breaking down

1246
01:00:04,920 --> 01:00:07,600
Speaker 9: Blake Lively in these videos. She has a way of

1247
01:00:07,640 --> 01:00:10,800
Speaker 9: speaking that really makes you pay attention and signals to

1248
01:00:10,840 --> 01:00:13,880
Speaker 9: the listener like this person is really breaking it down.

1249
01:00:13,960 --> 01:00:17,080
Speaker 9: It's the same reason why on TikTok or social media

1250
01:00:17,080 --> 01:00:19,840
Speaker 9: when someone is like story time or like I'm about

1251
01:00:19,840 --> 01:00:23,000
Speaker 9: to tell you all the details of something. Those videos

1252
01:00:23,080 --> 01:00:25,640
Speaker 9: always perform very well on social media, and I think

1253
01:00:25,640 --> 01:00:28,360
Speaker 9: that Owens is is just very good at knowing how

1254
01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:30,720
Speaker 9: to hold somebody's attention online, Like I have to say it.

1255
01:00:30,960 --> 01:00:35,760
Speaker 4: Sure, I mean she's been doing the content churn for

1256
01:00:35,840 --> 01:00:38,480
Speaker 4: almost a decade now, Like, yeah, you you do get

1257
01:00:38,520 --> 01:00:41,400
Speaker 4: good at it on like a technical proficiency level.

1258
01:00:41,640 --> 01:00:41,880
Speaker 3: Yes.

1259
01:00:42,320 --> 01:00:47,080
Speaker 9: Also, you know, we just love good old fashioned misogyny.

1260
01:00:47,520 --> 01:00:49,840
Speaker 9: And if that misogyny can be laced with like a

1261
01:00:49,880 --> 01:00:52,000
Speaker 9: conspiracy theory, oh yeah, I think.

1262
01:00:51,840 --> 01:00:53,040
Speaker 7: That's it's even better.

1263
01:00:53,440 --> 01:00:56,280
Speaker 9: So, like I think that part of this is just

1264
01:00:56,320 --> 01:00:59,640
Speaker 9: like social media platforms are always going to amplify misogyny.

1265
01:01:00,320 --> 01:01:03,120
Speaker 9: I would argue that things like misogyny, transphobia, massage noire,

1266
01:01:03,200 --> 01:01:05,560
Speaker 9: or racism, all of that is like baked into the

1267
01:01:05,640 --> 01:01:08,640
Speaker 9: experience of showing up online as a feature, not a bug.

1268
01:01:08,960 --> 01:01:12,200
Speaker 9: And I think that Omens takes it even further because

1269
01:01:12,240 --> 01:01:16,600
Speaker 9: she is breaking it down like she's uncovering some conspiracy.

1270
01:01:16,680 --> 01:01:20,240
Speaker 9: Like it's not just let's talk about about Blake Lively,

1271
01:01:20,280 --> 01:01:23,240
Speaker 9: it's I'm uncovering the web of lies and I'm gonna

1272
01:01:23,240 --> 01:01:27,400
Speaker 9: I'm gonna expose Blake Lively's dark truth, right, and so like,

1273
01:01:27,480 --> 01:01:28,960
Speaker 9: of course that's gonna take off.

1274
01:01:28,920 --> 01:01:32,680
Speaker 4: And she does gain this element of authority because she's

1275
01:01:32,720 --> 01:01:35,640
Speaker 4: a woman talking about this. It makes men feel better

1276
01:01:35,640 --> 01:01:38,439
Speaker 4: about being misogynistic because a woman's telling them it's okay

1277
01:01:38,520 --> 01:01:40,480
Speaker 4: to I mean, this is this is the same thing

1278
01:01:40,480 --> 01:01:43,000
Speaker 4: that she was able to weaponize for all of her,

1279
01:01:43,040 --> 01:01:45,120
Speaker 4: like like yo, anti black lives matter stuff for all

1280
01:01:45,160 --> 01:01:48,040
Speaker 4: of her, like like racism isn't real things. She tries

1281
01:01:48,080 --> 01:01:51,280
Speaker 4: to use it to her advantage, mostly to make like

1282
01:01:51,520 --> 01:01:55,040
Speaker 4: white members of her audience like feel good about their

1283
01:01:55,080 --> 01:01:58,000
Speaker 4: own racism because a black woman told them it's actually

1284
01:01:58,080 --> 01:02:00,880
Speaker 4: okay and like that. That's been like a big part

1285
01:02:00,920 --> 01:02:03,760
Speaker 4: of her career the past few years exactly that.

1286
01:02:03,920 --> 01:02:07,920
Speaker 9: And I think like she really understands that the inviting

1287
01:02:08,080 --> 01:02:10,680
Speaker 9: power of taking what you might think of as like

1288
01:02:10,720 --> 01:02:14,120
Speaker 9: a contrarian stance on something like yeah, totally, like after

1289
01:02:14,160 --> 01:02:16,920
Speaker 9: the Me Too movement, how many women got engagement by

1290
01:02:16,920 --> 01:02:20,480
Speaker 9: taking a contrarian stance, right, Like, I think going against

1291
01:02:20,560 --> 01:02:22,840
Speaker 9: the conventional attitude that says like, oh, we have to

1292
01:02:22,880 --> 01:02:26,040
Speaker 9: automatically support the woman in this in this dispute probably

1293
01:02:26,080 --> 01:02:29,840
Speaker 9: makes people tuning into omens's breakdowns feel like they're like

1294
01:02:30,160 --> 01:02:32,880
Speaker 9: free thinkers who are going against the grain, you know,

1295
01:02:32,960 --> 01:02:36,040
Speaker 9: by taking an unpopular opinion, which I do think connects

1296
01:02:36,040 --> 01:02:39,080
Speaker 9: to her more odious stances on things like trans people

1297
01:02:39,120 --> 01:02:40,280
Speaker 9: and women and Jewish people.

1298
01:02:40,640 --> 01:02:40,840
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1299
01:02:40,880 --> 01:02:42,280
Speaker 4: No, I mean, like you see the same thing with

1300
01:02:42,400 --> 01:02:45,160
Speaker 4: like you know, like the gays against Groomer's thing, right

1301
01:02:45,200 --> 01:02:49,520
Speaker 4: wing trans influencers, detrans influencers. It's the same, like gambit.

1302
01:02:50,160 --> 01:02:52,560
Speaker 4: And certainly I think, like, yeah, like your identification of

1303
01:02:52,600 --> 01:02:56,480
Speaker 4: her as like a professional contrarian is like very very

1304
01:02:56,560 --> 01:02:58,640
Speaker 4: key to her success exactly.

1305
01:02:59,120 --> 01:03:01,760
Speaker 9: I also think like part of the reason why people

1306
01:03:01,800 --> 01:03:04,680
Speaker 9: are attracted to conspiracy theories is that it allows for

1307
01:03:05,200 --> 01:03:08,120
Speaker 9: like fantasy world building, and I think I really see

1308
01:03:08,160 --> 01:03:10,800
Speaker 9: the ways that she injects that into her coverage, even

1309
01:03:10,800 --> 01:03:13,200
Speaker 9: the word coverage I put that in worlds because like

1310
01:03:13,920 --> 01:03:16,440
Speaker 9: she is like a wild person. To her coverage is

1311
01:03:16,480 --> 01:03:19,800
Speaker 9: like also wild. She does not adhere to, as she

1312
01:03:19,880 --> 01:03:22,280
Speaker 9: puts it, quote, a traditional style of reporting.

1313
01:03:22,520 --> 01:03:24,240
Speaker 4: You know, I'll take her word for that one, you

1314
01:03:24,280 --> 01:03:26,360
Speaker 4: know what, I'll.

1315
01:03:25,560 --> 01:03:27,720
Speaker 3: Believe her on that that single point.

1316
01:03:27,960 --> 01:03:29,040
Speaker 7: Yeah, I believe her.

1317
01:03:29,120 --> 01:03:33,360
Speaker 9: I believe that, you know, she amplifies rumors and even

1318
01:03:33,520 --> 01:03:35,960
Speaker 9: once she read a letter that she said that she

1319
01:03:36,040 --> 01:03:39,760
Speaker 9: got from Blake Lively's husband, Ryan Reynolds, his acting coach

1320
01:03:39,800 --> 01:03:43,040
Speaker 9: when he was twelve, and to Kenneth Owens, his acting

1321
01:03:43,080 --> 01:03:46,040
Speaker 9: coach said that Ryan Reynolds was an obnoxious kid.

1322
01:03:46,680 --> 01:03:48,120
Speaker 3: You know what, I also believe it.

1323
01:03:48,160 --> 01:03:52,000
Speaker 9: I oh, I have no trouble believing that. But like

1324
01:03:52,320 --> 01:03:54,720
Speaker 9: her coverage, it includes like side.

1325
01:03:54,600 --> 01:03:57,640
Speaker 4: Characters, Yeah, things that have this whatsoever? I mean, yeah,

1326
01:03:57,640 --> 01:03:59,960
Speaker 4: I feel like this, this focus on like this like

1327
01:04:00,080 --> 01:04:03,200
Speaker 4: conspiratorial ben is like the same. She's using the same

1328
01:04:03,240 --> 01:04:06,280
Speaker 4: tactics she did for her Black Lives Matter documentary for

1329
01:04:06,400 --> 01:04:08,800
Speaker 4: like most of our political work, like it, it's she's

1330
01:04:08,920 --> 01:04:11,800
Speaker 4: using the same tactics over and over again. And eventually

1331
01:04:11,840 --> 01:04:14,640
Speaker 4: she like reaches this like stress point or this like

1332
01:04:14,720 --> 01:04:17,400
Speaker 4: threshold where she cannot see a path forward or she

1333
01:04:17,400 --> 01:04:18,960
Speaker 4: can't see a way to surpass it, and then she

1334
01:04:19,000 --> 01:04:22,120
Speaker 4: does a pivot. This happened with her progressive blog, this

1335
01:04:22,160 --> 01:04:24,600
Speaker 4: happened even at the Daily Wire. She does not she

1336
01:04:24,960 --> 01:04:27,480
Speaker 4: doesn't work with Turning Point USA anymore. And like this,

1337
01:04:27,480 --> 01:04:30,400
Speaker 4: this new pivot is learning. Hey, it's sup super lucrative

1338
01:04:30,440 --> 01:04:35,320
Speaker 4: to be like a tabloid entertainment quote unquote journalist. Very easy,

1339
01:04:35,400 --> 01:04:37,840
Speaker 4: super lucrative, and all of the tactics you learned on

1340
01:04:37,840 --> 01:04:40,680
Speaker 4: the right wing media sphere work great here, Like all

1341
01:04:40,680 --> 01:04:44,600
Speaker 4: of this, like conspiratorial thinking really uh, a disregard for

1342
01:04:44,720 --> 01:04:47,360
Speaker 4: like like facts and evidence works perfect for this sort

1343
01:04:47,400 --> 01:04:52,080
Speaker 4: of like rumor based reporting, and it spreads like crazy,

1344
01:04:52,360 --> 01:04:55,240
Speaker 4: And yeah, it spreads across political lines. You don't, you

1345
01:04:55,280 --> 01:04:58,760
Speaker 4: aren't just targeting the mega people or like the far right.

1346
01:04:59,120 --> 01:05:01,200
Speaker 4: This this can be so much more broad to like

1347
01:05:01,240 --> 01:05:03,160
Speaker 4: the giant audience of like you know, quote unquote like

1348
01:05:03,160 --> 01:05:05,720
Speaker 4: a political people go to these platforms for a form

1349
01:05:05,720 --> 01:05:09,440
Speaker 4: of like of like escapism and entertainment rather than just

1350
01:05:09,480 --> 01:05:13,280
Speaker 4: hearing about politics yet again, because that's you know, very

1351
01:05:14,000 --> 01:05:14,640
Speaker 4: very tiring.

1352
01:05:15,560 --> 01:05:18,200
Speaker 9: Yeah, and I think in my mind, all of it

1353
01:05:18,240 --> 01:05:22,560
Speaker 9: is sort of sort of connected. Like Ben Shapiro, nobody

1354
01:05:22,600 --> 01:05:25,680
Speaker 9: cared more about celebrities or talked more about celebrities than

1355
01:05:25,720 --> 01:05:27,959
Speaker 9: Ben Shapiro. He would love to be like I don't

1356
01:05:28,000 --> 01:05:30,800
Speaker 9: care what Hollywood is doing, but he was obsessed with

1357
01:05:30,880 --> 01:05:33,600
Speaker 9: like Beyonce and Meg thee Stallion, Like it was just

1358
01:05:33,680 --> 01:05:37,320
Speaker 9: like a negative obsession. Like yeah, you know, anti fandom

1359
01:05:37,440 --> 01:05:39,840
Speaker 9: is still fandom when you make video after video about

1360
01:05:39,880 --> 01:05:41,640
Speaker 9: how much you don't like Meg thea stallion in a

1361
01:05:41,760 --> 01:05:44,040
Speaker 9: kind of way, you are a fan, just in the

1362
01:05:44,080 --> 01:05:47,280
Speaker 9: opposite direction. And so I think that Candice Owens really

1363
01:05:47,680 --> 01:05:50,320
Speaker 9: took that and learned how to perfect it because she

1364
01:05:50,440 --> 01:05:52,080
Speaker 9: is much I think that she is much better at

1365
01:05:52,080 --> 01:05:53,040
Speaker 9: this than Ben Shapiro is.

1366
01:05:53,080 --> 01:05:55,000
Speaker 7: Like the evidence being that, like.

1367
01:05:54,960 --> 01:05:58,360
Speaker 9: Her YouTube channel is exploding with people who probably would

1368
01:05:58,440 --> 01:06:00,680
Speaker 9: never watch any any of Ben Schipper here, I was content.

1369
01:06:01,200 --> 01:06:04,480
Speaker 4: The big bummer for me is that the Daily Wires

1370
01:06:04,520 --> 01:06:08,680
Speaker 4: first film, Lady Ballers left us on a cliffhanger with

1371
01:06:08,680 --> 01:06:11,080
Speaker 4: with Candas Owans and Matt Walsh sitting in a car

1372
01:06:11,120 --> 01:06:14,840
Speaker 4: talking about how Matt Walsh planned this entire like plot

1373
01:06:14,920 --> 01:06:17,440
Speaker 4: of the film as like as like some kind of

1374
01:06:17,480 --> 01:06:21,320
Speaker 4: scheme or like social experiment, and you know, it was

1375
01:06:21,360 --> 01:06:23,160
Speaker 4: implied there would be more. You know, it was like

1376
01:06:23,200 --> 01:06:26,400
Speaker 4: a you know, like Avengers Nick Fury type post credit scene.

1377
01:06:26,840 --> 01:06:30,120
Speaker 4: And now we're never gonna learn what Candae OANs and

1378
01:06:30,120 --> 01:06:32,880
Speaker 4: Matt Walsh get up to now because she's left the company.

1379
01:06:32,920 --> 01:06:35,120
Speaker 4: She's now doing her own thing. So now we just

1380
01:06:35,160 --> 01:06:38,280
Speaker 4: had this dangling plot thread that's just gonna bug me forever,

1381
01:06:38,400 --> 01:06:40,520
Speaker 4: Like what does the Candae Owan's character at the end

1382
01:06:40,560 --> 01:06:43,560
Speaker 4: of Lady Ballers Do next. I'm gonna be thinking about

1383
01:06:43,560 --> 01:06:44,400
Speaker 4: this for like years.

1384
01:06:44,680 --> 01:06:48,160
Speaker 7: America deserves closure. We deserve to know. Just putting that

1385
01:06:48,200 --> 01:06:50,920
Speaker 7: out there, I think we do deserve closure.

1386
01:06:51,280 --> 01:06:52,880
Speaker 3: I just think my closure is gonna be a little

1387
01:06:52,880 --> 01:06:53,360
Speaker 3: bit different.

1388
01:06:54,320 --> 01:06:57,080
Speaker 4: I am. I'm very fine having all of these plot

1389
01:06:57,160 --> 01:06:59,919
Speaker 4: threads wrapped up quite quickly, but I do not see

1390
01:07:00,080 --> 01:07:01,880
Speaker 4: that in the cards immediately.

1391
01:07:12,080 --> 01:07:15,640
Speaker 9: So in terms of where she's at now, like you know,

1392
01:07:15,760 --> 01:07:19,440
Speaker 9: my question is like, has Owens has this kind of

1393
01:07:19,480 --> 01:07:22,520
Speaker 9: like mainstream audience that she's been able to amass. Has

1394
01:07:22,560 --> 01:07:25,440
Speaker 9: she changed her views she is she trying to do

1395
01:07:25,480 --> 01:07:27,800
Speaker 9: a rebrand or a pivot. In an interview, she said,

1396
01:07:27,840 --> 01:07:31,200
Speaker 9: in terms of my perspective, I haven't changed anything. I've

1397
01:07:31,200 --> 01:07:33,680
Speaker 9: been anti METO since long before it was cool.

1398
01:07:34,240 --> 01:07:37,160
Speaker 4: Sure, I mean that can be true. It's also true

1399
01:07:37,160 --> 01:07:41,840
Speaker 4: that she is getting better at propaganda and widening her footprint. Which, yeah,

1400
01:07:42,120 --> 01:07:44,480
Speaker 4: then once her audience gets bigger, she might be able

1401
01:07:44,520 --> 01:07:46,400
Speaker 4: to slip in more things that I would find on

1402
01:07:46,440 --> 01:07:49,800
Speaker 4: Savory to a larger audience over time, But she also

1403
01:07:49,920 --> 01:07:53,960
Speaker 4: might be content to keep growing that and be slightly

1404
01:07:54,000 --> 01:07:57,000
Speaker 4: less off putting in the meantime, but no, like there's

1405
01:07:57,040 --> 01:07:59,480
Speaker 4: also just a huge audience for like the anti woke backlash,

1406
01:07:59,480 --> 01:08:02,320
Speaker 4: antiemetwo stuff right now. Like that's kind of that's kind

1407
01:08:02,320 --> 01:08:05,320
Speaker 4: of like the new mainstream frankly, so I am certain

1408
01:08:05,360 --> 01:08:07,320
Speaker 4: that she's going to try to continue to like flex

1409
01:08:07,360 --> 01:08:09,919
Speaker 4: that and grow that in the in the next few

1410
01:08:10,280 --> 01:08:11,160
Speaker 4: months years.

1411
01:08:12,000 --> 01:08:14,000
Speaker 7: Yeah, so I agree with you.

1412
01:08:14,080 --> 01:08:16,960
Speaker 9: I believe Owens when she says that, like her stances

1413
01:08:17,200 --> 01:08:20,280
Speaker 9: have not changed much easy to be like, Oh, well,

1414
01:08:20,439 --> 01:08:23,000
Speaker 9: she's pivoting to go mainstream now that she has these

1415
01:08:23,040 --> 01:08:25,400
Speaker 9: like women in her audience who are interested in celebrity.

1416
01:08:25,800 --> 01:08:27,800
Speaker 9: And you can, honestly, you can sort of see some

1417
01:08:27,920 --> 01:08:30,519
Speaker 9: of this in changes to her physical appearance. Like she

1418
01:08:30,680 --> 01:08:34,640
Speaker 9: was sort of known for having very severe hair, the

1419
01:08:34,720 --> 01:08:37,599
Speaker 9: joke being that she had alienated herself so much from

1420
01:08:37,640 --> 01:08:40,120
Speaker 9: her fellow black people, but like, no black person was

1421
01:08:40,160 --> 01:08:41,519
Speaker 9: going to do her hair, and that's why it looks

1422
01:08:41,560 --> 01:08:45,440
Speaker 9: that way. But lately you've really seen this like softening.

1423
01:08:45,479 --> 01:08:48,400
Speaker 9: She's kind of going for like a softer public look.

1424
01:08:49,000 --> 01:08:52,160
Speaker 9: She is pivoting to different kinds of programming. She's branched

1425
01:08:52,160 --> 01:08:54,680
Speaker 9: out into doing a book club for paying subscribers and

1426
01:08:54,720 --> 01:08:56,640
Speaker 9: some kind of a fitness program.

1427
01:08:56,320 --> 01:09:00,000
Speaker 4: That makes sense. Yeah, totally, like the health Guru fitness

1428
01:09:00,160 --> 01:09:02,280
Speaker 4: entertainment bubble. Yeah that's huge.

1429
01:09:02,640 --> 01:09:04,759
Speaker 7: That's such a good grift. She's gonna make so much money.

1430
01:09:04,840 --> 01:09:06,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, she is.

1431
01:09:07,640 --> 01:09:10,680
Speaker 9: But I really agree with you, gaire that, like, I

1432
01:09:10,760 --> 01:09:14,720
Speaker 9: think that these new followers are certainly going to be

1433
01:09:14,800 --> 01:09:18,640
Speaker 9: walked down a pipeline that includes for extremist attitude just

1434
01:09:18,720 --> 01:09:22,280
Speaker 9: using celebrity scandal as a hook, because, like as you said,

1435
01:09:22,400 --> 01:09:25,479
Speaker 9: celebrity scandals and celebrity stories are just considered fluff for

1436
01:09:25,520 --> 01:09:27,559
Speaker 9: a lot of people. So like, people who care about

1437
01:09:27,560 --> 01:09:31,080
Speaker 9: extremist content and ideology are maybe not seeing that as

1438
01:09:31,080 --> 01:09:32,800
Speaker 9: a space that they need to pay too close of

1439
01:09:32,840 --> 01:09:35,880
Speaker 9: attention to about these stories that you might see on

1440
01:09:35,920 --> 01:09:38,759
Speaker 9: the cover of an US weekly. But these stories actually

1441
01:09:38,800 --> 01:09:41,880
Speaker 9: can be used to tap into extremist ideologies and unleash

1442
01:09:41,920 --> 01:09:43,000
Speaker 9: them in a whole new audience.

1443
01:09:43,040 --> 01:09:43,800
Speaker 4: I'm like, yeah, like.

1444
01:09:43,800 --> 01:09:46,760
Speaker 9: You were saying, if you are just like watching a

1445
01:09:46,800 --> 01:09:49,880
Speaker 9: podcast because you're want to be entertained about a story

1446
01:09:49,920 --> 01:09:53,400
Speaker 9: about two celebrities, you might not have your like bullshit

1447
01:09:53,439 --> 01:09:56,400
Speaker 9: detector up to be like, wait, is this extremist content,

1448
01:09:56,439 --> 01:09:59,679
Speaker 9: because it's it's seen and treated as a less charge space.

1449
01:09:59,720 --> 01:10:02,040
Speaker 9: And so you know that line of thinking that says

1450
01:10:02,080 --> 01:10:04,439
Speaker 9: that you know, this is just fluff, It doesn't really

1451
01:10:04,479 --> 01:10:07,600
Speaker 9: matter what happens in celebrity news is not incorrect. It

1452
01:10:07,640 --> 01:10:09,960
Speaker 9: is dangerous because it lends itself to people being more

1453
01:10:10,000 --> 01:10:13,640
Speaker 9: susceptible to to it when extremist content is slipped in

1454
01:10:13,880 --> 01:10:15,280
Speaker 9: without even really realizing it.

1455
01:10:15,360 --> 01:10:17,720
Speaker 4: I mean, and like that relates even to like the

1456
01:10:17,720 --> 01:10:21,160
Speaker 4: originator of this gamer git stuff and the whole like

1457
01:10:21,680 --> 01:10:26,559
Speaker 4: anti woke like media fandom content sphere right where so

1458
01:10:26,640 --> 01:10:28,679
Speaker 4: much of like the anti book backlash has been built

1459
01:10:28,720 --> 01:10:31,400
Speaker 4: on people complaining that Star Wars is too woke. Now

1460
01:10:31,400 --> 01:10:34,840
Speaker 4: there's too many women in movies, there's too many black

1461
01:10:34,840 --> 01:10:36,880
Speaker 4: people in commercials. Where do all the white people go,

1462
01:10:36,920 --> 01:10:39,040
Speaker 4: There's too many gay people in TV, there's too many

1463
01:10:39,280 --> 01:10:42,920
Speaker 4: trans people in TV, and like that is it is

1464
01:10:42,920 --> 01:10:45,759
Speaker 4: definitely focused on by the rest of the Daily Wire goons,

1465
01:10:46,439 --> 01:10:49,519
Speaker 4: and you can very easily pivot back to that sort

1466
01:10:49,520 --> 01:10:53,360
Speaker 4: of cultural commentary after you're done talking about Blake Lively,

1467
01:10:53,439 --> 01:10:55,960
Speaker 4: like this is this is a very small jump where

1468
01:10:55,960 --> 01:10:58,760
Speaker 4: you're still talking about the entertainment industry, but with this

1469
01:10:58,880 --> 01:11:01,559
Speaker 4: like anti woke framing like, you know, why is all

1470
01:11:01,560 --> 01:11:05,400
Speaker 4: these minorities here? Why are they pushing transgenderism on kids?

1471
01:11:05,920 --> 01:11:08,160
Speaker 4: You know, whether that be talking about you know, transactors

1472
01:11:08,160 --> 01:11:11,240
Speaker 4: in the business, whether you be talking about you know,

1473
01:11:11,320 --> 01:11:14,920
Speaker 4: like female lead or like diversity casting, like all all

1474
01:11:14,960 --> 01:11:17,519
Speaker 4: that kind of stuff that especially Candice can use her

1475
01:11:17,640 --> 01:11:21,320
Speaker 4: like contrarian position to speak on authority about talking about

1476
01:11:21,439 --> 01:11:24,120
Speaker 4: why are you recasting these legacy characters to be people

1477
01:11:24,120 --> 01:11:27,840
Speaker 4: of color? Or why is a woman the lead of

1478
01:11:27,880 --> 01:11:29,960
Speaker 4: this thing when it should be actually a man? You know,

1479
01:11:30,120 --> 01:11:32,519
Speaker 4: just like very very basic stuff that's been a part

1480
01:11:32,520 --> 01:11:36,160
Speaker 4: of like the YouTube slop for a decade now, but

1481
01:11:36,200 --> 01:11:39,000
Speaker 4: it's still like still takes in a lot of a

1482
01:11:39,040 --> 01:11:41,320
Speaker 4: lot of clicks and it is it is a lot

1483
01:11:41,320 --> 01:11:44,479
Speaker 4: of like the Daily Wire and like right wing content

1484
01:11:45,280 --> 01:11:48,360
Speaker 4: still still does. It's all this like weird like culture

1485
01:11:48,439 --> 01:11:51,840
Speaker 4: warst stuff. It's very very tightened with Hollywood. Like you

1486
01:11:51,840 --> 01:11:54,080
Speaker 4: were saying about how like Ben Shapiro claims, you know,

1487
01:11:54,160 --> 01:11:56,760
Speaker 4: like hate Hollywood. He's trying to build his own alternative

1488
01:11:56,800 --> 01:11:58,680
Speaker 4: to it, but he can't stop talking about it, like

1489
01:11:58,720 --> 01:12:02,080
Speaker 4: he can't stop complaining about Disney's snow White. And I

1490
01:12:02,080 --> 01:12:04,479
Speaker 4: can see Candice doing like the exact same thing, but

1491
01:12:04,560 --> 01:12:07,559
Speaker 4: now with like an honestly like a bigger, a bigger,

1492
01:12:07,640 --> 01:12:10,600
Speaker 4: more like a political audience that's much more malleable and

1493
01:12:10,680 --> 01:12:13,479
Speaker 4: can be shaped around these like larger cultural trends. When

1494
01:12:13,520 --> 01:12:17,800
Speaker 4: you think about this like perception of this backlash against wokeness, I.

1495
01:12:17,840 --> 01:12:19,639
Speaker 7: Absolutely think that's what we're gonna see.

1496
01:12:19,680 --> 01:12:22,360
Speaker 9: And I can tell you we can finish by I

1497
01:12:22,439 --> 01:12:25,400
Speaker 9: can tell you about her next big pet issue, which

1498
01:12:25,439 --> 01:12:26,559
Speaker 9: is going to be yes.

1499
01:12:27,080 --> 01:12:29,800
Speaker 7: Championing Harvey Weinstein.

1500
01:12:29,320 --> 01:12:33,639
Speaker 9: Who she is no, no, no, So She's been interviewing

1501
01:12:33,720 --> 01:12:36,759
Speaker 9: him since twenty twenty two, according to The Hollywood Reporter.

1502
01:12:36,920 --> 01:12:40,720
Speaker 9: She explains, while he is quote an immoral man, he

1503
01:12:40,800 --> 01:12:42,720
Speaker 9: is also a justice system.

1504
01:12:43,000 --> 01:12:45,320
Speaker 4: A victim, sure victim, And she says.

1505
01:12:45,360 --> 01:12:47,479
Speaker 9: I've always had faith in our court system, and now

1506
01:12:47,479 --> 01:12:49,760
Speaker 9: it's beginning to change. Now I'm beginning to wonder if

1507
01:12:49,800 --> 01:12:52,559
Speaker 9: our courtrooms have been politicized. And the thing that's made

1508
01:12:52,600 --> 01:12:54,000
Speaker 9: her think this is Harvey Weinstein.

1509
01:12:55,840 --> 01:12:58,120
Speaker 4: It's wild. I mean, like Ben Shapiro is starting his

1510
01:12:58,160 --> 01:13:00,960
Speaker 4: own campaign to free Derek Chauvin. I think there's gonna

1511
01:13:00,960 --> 01:13:02,880
Speaker 4: be a lot of pressure on the courts right now.

1512
01:13:02,960 --> 01:13:04,519
Speaker 4: I mean, you're seeing that from like Elon and Trump

1513
01:13:04,560 --> 01:13:07,160
Speaker 4: as well. I think undermining the authority of the court,

1514
01:13:07,200 --> 01:13:08,960
Speaker 4: I think is actually kind of part of this larger

1515
01:13:09,360 --> 01:13:12,280
Speaker 4: concerted issue amongst the entirety of the right right now,

1516
01:13:12,520 --> 01:13:16,080
Speaker 4: because this is like their biggest remaining roadblock to achieving

1517
01:13:16,120 --> 01:13:20,920
Speaker 4: their right wing utopia is the court system. And I

1518
01:13:21,479 --> 01:13:25,240
Speaker 4: you know, this may not be intentional on every person's part,

1519
01:13:25,320 --> 01:13:29,040
Speaker 4: like Ben Shapiro, candastones aren't aren't like intentionally collaborating on this,

1520
01:13:29,400 --> 01:13:31,920
Speaker 4: but they may be copying each other's trends. And if

1521
01:13:31,920 --> 01:13:35,559
Speaker 4: they're seeing this this wider push across a large amount

1522
01:13:35,640 --> 01:13:37,719
Speaker 4: of like the right wing content people to put pressure

1523
01:13:37,760 --> 01:13:41,120
Speaker 4: on various aspects of the courts, including by using like

1524
01:13:41,200 --> 01:13:45,320
Speaker 4: high profile cases like Harvey Weinstein or Derek Shouvin's, that's

1525
01:13:45,320 --> 01:13:47,919
Speaker 4: not a great sign. And I can I can definitely

1526
01:13:47,920 --> 01:13:50,799
Speaker 4: see them trying to trying to do that in conjunction.

1527
01:13:50,880 --> 01:13:52,000
Speaker 3: I guess yeah.

1528
01:13:52,040 --> 01:13:53,680
Speaker 9: I think we're going to see a lot more of it.

1529
01:13:53,800 --> 01:13:57,439
Speaker 9: Candice has a series coming out called Harvey Speaks that

1530
01:13:57,520 --> 01:14:00,880
Speaker 9: apparently tells his side of the story. Look out for that,

1531
01:14:01,160 --> 01:14:03,120
Speaker 9: And I think that's the thing, like I think with

1532
01:14:03,200 --> 01:14:07,200
Speaker 9: her content, like when asked why it was she thought

1533
01:14:07,240 --> 01:14:10,720
Speaker 9: that her Blake Lively stuff was really taking off. She

1534
01:14:10,840 --> 01:14:13,760
Speaker 9: says that she believes her new fans on the left

1535
01:14:13,840 --> 01:14:16,160
Speaker 9: quote have just kind of gotten wise to the fact

1536
01:14:16,160 --> 01:14:19,240
Speaker 9: that maybe women lie just like men. And so I

1537
01:14:19,439 --> 01:14:22,160
Speaker 9: just implore folks that, like, even if you think that

1538
01:14:22,200 --> 01:14:24,799
Speaker 9: you're just like retaking in this content because you're following

1539
01:14:24,840 --> 01:14:28,160
Speaker 9: fluffy celebrity news or whatever, it is so easy to

1540
01:14:28,200 --> 01:14:32,000
Speaker 9: go from maybe women lie to maybe women can't be trusted,

1541
01:14:32,080 --> 01:14:34,479
Speaker 9: or maybe women shouldn't work and have jobs, a stance

1542
01:14:34,520 --> 01:14:37,960
Speaker 9: at Candace herself that's actually advocated for despite very obviously

1543
01:14:38,040 --> 01:14:40,920
Speaker 9: being a working woman. And so I don't think we

1544
01:14:40,960 --> 01:14:43,920
Speaker 9: should trust Candace Owens even if she does this rebrand, Like,

1545
01:14:44,280 --> 01:14:47,240
Speaker 9: don't let her rebrand herself as like just a celebrity

1546
01:14:47,240 --> 01:14:50,920
Speaker 9: investigative journalist. Like she put all of these odious views

1547
01:14:50,960 --> 01:14:52,840
Speaker 9: out into the worlds, and I don't want her to

1548
01:14:52,880 --> 01:14:56,599
Speaker 9: be able to like soften it or you know, soften

1549
01:14:56,720 --> 01:14:58,360
Speaker 9: what it is that she advocates for, what it is

1550
01:14:58,400 --> 01:15:00,360
Speaker 9: that she believes in, if that is truly what she's

1551
01:15:00,360 --> 01:15:02,160
Speaker 9: trying to do to just sort of like a mass

1552
01:15:02,160 --> 01:15:04,720
Speaker 9: a more mainstream audience. So don't fall for it if

1553
01:15:04,760 --> 01:15:08,080
Speaker 9: you're if you're getting tagged in Candace Owens videos, just

1554
01:15:08,240 --> 01:15:09,880
Speaker 9: know what she actually is about.

1555
01:15:10,080 --> 01:15:12,080
Speaker 4: I mean, yeah, I think I think for our audience,

1556
01:15:12,160 --> 01:15:15,160
Speaker 4: it's it's more likely that you'll have like family members

1557
01:15:15,280 --> 01:15:17,800
Speaker 4: who are going to be finding this stuff, and you

1558
01:15:17,800 --> 01:15:21,799
Speaker 4: should find a list of sources. Maybe this this episode included,

1559
01:15:21,840 --> 01:15:23,400
Speaker 4: but probably you know, you can find some articles as

1560
01:15:23,400 --> 01:15:27,759
Speaker 4: well that theyk of some background on Candace's history and

1561
01:15:27,760 --> 01:15:30,479
Speaker 4: and and previous beliefs. Can pick and choose some of

1562
01:15:30,479 --> 01:15:34,120
Speaker 4: her most like outrageous claims. So when your aunt sends

1563
01:15:34,120 --> 01:15:36,759
Speaker 4: you a video about how Ryan Reynolds and Blake Lively

1564
01:15:36,800 --> 01:15:42,639
Speaker 4: are kidnapping children or something, you can you can maybe

1565
01:15:42,720 --> 01:15:46,719
Speaker 4: inform Aunt Judy that maybe you shouldn't listen to everything

1566
01:15:46,760 --> 01:15:48,479
Speaker 4: this Candice Owen's character is saying.

1567
01:15:48,800 --> 01:15:50,960
Speaker 7: Yeah, this Candace Owens might not be on the money,

1568
01:15:51,120 --> 01:15:52,240
Speaker 7: might not be on the level.

1569
01:15:53,120 --> 01:15:58,200
Speaker 9: No, yeah, inform an Auntie today, Yes that's right, and.

1570
01:15:58,080 --> 01:16:00,439
Speaker 7: Uh, that's all I got. That's it. I don't know

1571
01:16:00,479 --> 01:16:02,639
Speaker 7: how you usually end these episodes.

1572
01:16:02,360 --> 01:16:06,320
Speaker 4: Usually by getting sad, but I don't know. This has

1573
01:16:06,360 --> 01:16:10,479
Speaker 4: been an interesting dive into the life of a woman

1574
01:16:10,600 --> 01:16:17,240
Speaker 4: with many, many careers, many a chameleon many personalities, A chameleon,

1575
01:16:18,160 --> 01:16:20,040
Speaker 4: a chameleon of contrarianism.

1576
01:16:20,360 --> 01:16:21,400
Speaker 3: Oh I like that.

1577
01:16:21,600 --> 01:16:23,240
Speaker 7: If I ever write a book about her, that'll be

1578
01:16:23,240 --> 01:16:23,719
Speaker 7: the title.

1579
01:16:24,080 --> 01:16:27,920
Speaker 4: Jesus Christ. Oh what a nightmare that would be. Man

1580
01:16:29,000 --> 01:16:31,920
Speaker 4: scary bridget Where can people find you online?

1581
01:16:32,040 --> 01:16:34,280
Speaker 9: You can find me on my podcast. There are our

1582
01:16:34,320 --> 01:16:37,040
Speaker 9: girls on the internet on this network. iHeartRadio. I mean

1583
01:16:37,280 --> 01:16:39,559
Speaker 9: you can find me on Instagram at bridget Ran DC

1584
01:16:39,880 --> 01:16:41,639
Speaker 9: or on Blue Sky at bridget Time.

1585
01:16:41,800 --> 01:16:44,160
Speaker 4: Well, thank you so much, good luck in d C.

1586
01:16:44,640 --> 01:16:48,000
Speaker 4: Thanks for holding holding the line out there as Elon

1587
01:16:48,760 --> 01:16:51,439
Speaker 4: puts a kildozer through your entire city.

1588
01:16:51,520 --> 01:16:52,679
Speaker 7: We're doing our best.

1589
01:16:52,880 --> 01:16:56,599
Speaker 4: I would would love to talk again about a DC update.

1590
01:16:56,640 --> 01:16:58,439
Speaker 4: Maybe maybe next time you come on the show. Oh

1591
01:16:58,439 --> 01:17:02,000
Speaker 4: my god, yes, please, there we go. Well we will

1592
01:17:02,000 --> 01:17:03,799
Speaker 4: talk then, goodbye everybody.

1593
01:17:25,560 --> 01:17:26,599
Speaker 3: It could happen here.

1594
01:17:26,760 --> 01:17:31,200
Speaker 4: I'm Garrison Davis, still banned from one of the top

1595
01:17:31,280 --> 01:17:36,040
Speaker 4: fifteen highest endowment universities in the country, but I am

1596
01:17:36,080 --> 01:17:39,759
Speaker 4: not banned from this podcast. Today I'm joined by Robert

1597
01:17:39,760 --> 01:17:44,639
Speaker 4: Evans and James Stout to discuss the very troubling news

1598
01:17:45,560 --> 01:17:50,040
Speaker 4: of students having their visas and or green cards revoked

1599
01:17:50,520 --> 01:17:56,320
Speaker 4: by US customs in relation to anti genocide protests. James,

1600
01:17:56,360 --> 01:17:58,519
Speaker 4: this is something that you've been putting together a piece

1601
01:17:58,560 --> 01:17:59,600
Speaker 4: on for a while.

1602
01:18:00,120 --> 01:18:04,559
Speaker 2: Repeatedly trying to warn people of Cassandra like to no avail.

1603
01:18:04,720 --> 01:18:08,320
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, I do feel like we kind of saw

1604
01:18:08,360 --> 01:18:10,400
Speaker 1: this one coming a little bit, but that doesn't mean

1605
01:18:10,439 --> 01:18:15,000
Speaker 1: it's not bad. And specifically the case we're talking about today,

1606
01:18:15,320 --> 01:18:19,280
Speaker 1: I think is particularly egregious because it doesn't actually involve

1607
01:18:19,320 --> 01:18:22,920
Speaker 1: someone's student visa. Right. So I've been working for a

1608
01:18:22,920 --> 01:18:28,040
Speaker 1: while on people who actually, under the Biden administration were

1609
01:18:28,080 --> 01:18:32,640
Speaker 1: potentially facing deportation, right, But the material difference between that

1610
01:18:32,840 --> 01:18:36,240
Speaker 1: and now is that those people were facing deportation because

1611
01:18:36,280 --> 01:18:41,240
Speaker 1: the university removed their visas or the university removed them

1612
01:18:41,240 --> 01:18:44,639
Speaker 1: from the university, and therefore their visa was no longer valid.

1613
01:18:45,160 --> 01:18:48,400
Speaker 1: In this case, it seems that the order came directly

1614
01:18:48,439 --> 01:18:52,559
Speaker 1: from the State Department to deport a guy whose name

1615
01:18:52,880 --> 01:18:58,200
Speaker 1: is Mahoud Khalil. So Khalil was a prominent activist in

1616
01:18:58,320 --> 01:19:03,920
Speaker 1: the encampment Columbia, Right, But what's notable is that and

1617
01:19:04,200 --> 01:19:07,639
Speaker 1: the events here, as best we can tell, went down

1618
01:19:07,720 --> 01:19:11,080
Speaker 1: like this, referencing an ap article here that will link

1619
01:19:11,120 --> 01:19:14,759
Speaker 1: in the show notes. ICE agents came to his front door,

1620
01:19:14,880 --> 01:19:18,639
Speaker 1: which is on university property, and told him that they

1621
01:19:18,680 --> 01:19:22,280
Speaker 1: were revoking his student visa and therefore he was being deported.

1622
01:19:22,960 --> 01:19:25,800
Speaker 1: He then informed them that he didn't have a student visa,

1623
01:19:25,960 --> 01:19:28,799
Speaker 1: that he was a legal permanent resident right colloquially referred

1624
01:19:28,800 --> 01:19:31,840
Speaker 1: to as a Green card holder. They then told him

1625
01:19:32,040 --> 01:19:34,960
Speaker 1: or his lawyer. At some point, he got his lawyer

1626
01:19:34,960 --> 01:19:36,880
Speaker 1: on the phone and was communicating with them through his lawyer.

1627
01:19:37,800 --> 01:19:40,559
Speaker 1: They then told the lawyer that they were revoking the

1628
01:19:40,600 --> 01:19:43,920
Speaker 1: green card, and at some point it's reported that they

1629
01:19:43,960 --> 01:19:47,160
Speaker 1: attempted to detain his wife, who is a US citizen,

1630
01:19:47,439 --> 01:19:50,000
Speaker 1: which of course is not a thing that ICE can do.

1631
01:19:50,520 --> 01:19:53,720
Speaker 1: So the difference between a legal permanent resident and a

1632
01:19:53,760 --> 01:19:56,519
Speaker 1: student visa is like the place I want to start

1633
01:19:56,560 --> 01:19:59,840
Speaker 1: this because they are materially very different. Right. Student visas

1634
01:19:59,840 --> 01:20:03,000
Speaker 1: are pretty fragile. People lose their student visas for lots

1635
01:20:03,040 --> 01:20:05,840
Speaker 1: of things all the time. A green card is a

1636
01:20:05,960 --> 01:20:11,240
Speaker 1: much higher barrier, and the revocation of his green card.

1637
01:20:12,040 --> 01:20:14,920
Speaker 1: We spoke a lot before this episode about like exactly

1638
01:20:15,200 --> 01:20:18,000
Speaker 1: kind of where this comes from. In Trump's missmatch of

1639
01:20:18,040 --> 01:20:22,640
Speaker 1: executive orders and speeches, right, because after he was detained,

1640
01:20:23,120 --> 01:20:28,519
Speaker 1: we saw Trump truthing about specifically using the word green card.

1641
01:20:28,840 --> 01:20:33,200
Speaker 1: We also saw Marco Rubio tweeting about removing green cards, right,

1642
01:20:33,439 --> 01:20:35,720
Speaker 1: Rubio being a secretive of State, normally the green card

1643
01:20:35,720 --> 01:20:37,200
Speaker 1: wouldn't be a state department thing.

1644
01:20:37,760 --> 01:20:40,280
Speaker 2: Now, it seems.

1645
01:20:39,840 --> 01:20:42,320
Speaker 1: The most likely course of events as far as we

1646
01:20:42,360 --> 01:20:44,240
Speaker 1: can tell from what we know right now today's the

1647
01:20:44,280 --> 01:20:48,880
Speaker 1: tenth of March, is that Ice came thinking he had

1648
01:20:48,880 --> 01:20:51,800
Speaker 1: a student visa. It's not particularly uncommon for ice raids

1649
01:20:51,800 --> 01:20:53,880
Speaker 1: to not have all the information on someone. From what

1650
01:20:53,920 --> 01:20:56,840
Speaker 1: I understand, I mean, this is just a police thing.

1651
01:20:56,920 --> 01:20:59,320
Speaker 2: Yes, it's not just like the caps who are doing

1652
01:20:59,400 --> 01:21:03,240
Speaker 2: raids reoff and don't have all or accurate information.

1653
01:21:03,680 --> 01:21:06,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, Ice in particularly very often don't have a judicial warrant.

1654
01:21:06,320 --> 01:21:08,080
Speaker 1: They have a warrant that they made they assign themselves,

1655
01:21:08,080 --> 01:21:10,920
Speaker 1: which is a different thing. They're supposed to require warrant

1656
01:21:10,920 --> 01:21:13,160
Speaker 1: to get onto Columbia University campus, but as of now,

1657
01:21:13,600 --> 01:21:16,160
Speaker 1: I don't believe Columbia have clarified that they did have,

1658
01:21:16,320 --> 01:21:18,240
Speaker 1: and I think the apology also allowed for them to

1659
01:21:18,280 --> 01:21:22,559
Speaker 1: allow Ice onto campus in like exigent circumstances. So we'll

1660
01:21:22,600 --> 01:21:25,840
Speaker 1: have to see what exactly that warrant was for why

1661
01:21:25,880 --> 01:21:30,040
Speaker 1: exactly Columbia allowed them onto campus. So it seems like

1662
01:21:30,080 --> 01:21:33,639
Speaker 1: they came a temperature evoke this guy student visa, realized

1663
01:21:33,640 --> 01:21:36,680
Speaker 1: you didn't have a student visa, detained him anyway, and

1664
01:21:36,720 --> 01:21:40,799
Speaker 1: then kind of expos facto, the these tweets and statements

1665
01:21:40,840 --> 01:21:43,639
Speaker 1: came out. But Garrison, you found some stuff in. I mean,

1666
01:21:43,760 --> 01:21:47,200
Speaker 1: Trump has made previous statements that are kind of unclear, right,

1667
01:21:47,240 --> 01:21:49,200
Speaker 1: he uses the word aliens a lot.

1668
01:21:49,760 --> 01:21:52,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, So we've been trying to kind of figure out

1669
01:21:52,320 --> 01:21:55,800
Speaker 4: the exact details of like what is going on, what

1670
01:21:56,000 --> 01:21:58,000
Speaker 4: justification they have for doing this, and how we can

1671
01:21:58,080 --> 01:22:02,559
Speaker 4: like extrapolate this out to larger trends because deporting like

1672
01:22:02,680 --> 01:22:08,000
Speaker 4: legal residents for college protests is pretty insane. And also

1673
01:22:08,160 --> 01:22:10,200
Speaker 4: the rhetoric coming out of the White House and like

1674
01:22:10,240 --> 01:22:13,000
Speaker 4: the White House like social media accounts around this incident

1675
01:22:13,479 --> 01:22:16,479
Speaker 4: is like extremely worrying, Like the way they're basically putting

1676
01:22:16,560 --> 01:22:20,920
Speaker 4: up like wanted posters for protesters and in general, the

1677
01:22:20,920 --> 01:22:23,360
Speaker 4: way that the White House account has been doing this

1678
01:22:23,520 --> 01:22:28,200
Speaker 4: like own the Libs, like mimetic nationalism that the past

1679
01:22:28,240 --> 01:22:30,360
Speaker 4: few weeks has been has been really upsetting. And this

1680
01:22:30,720 --> 01:22:33,360
Speaker 4: has continued around this issue, and I think it is

1681
01:22:33,400 --> 01:22:36,240
Speaker 4: worth focusing on this as like a specific escalation because

1682
01:22:36,240 --> 01:22:39,120
Speaker 4: you had people like mamad U Tall, who I think

1683
01:22:39,280 --> 01:22:44,320
Speaker 4: Cornell tried to revoke their student visa and then he's

1684
01:22:44,880 --> 01:22:48,840
Speaker 4: in some way negotiated back into that to stay on.

1685
01:22:49,360 --> 01:22:54,759
Speaker 4: The interim provost John Ceciliano eventually ruled in Tall's favor

1686
01:22:55,240 --> 01:22:57,439
Speaker 4: so he did not end up getting deported last year.

1687
01:22:58,040 --> 01:23:00,920
Speaker 4: And now this new development in relationship to the Columbia

1688
01:23:00,920 --> 01:23:05,400
Speaker 4: protests is a significant escalation. Yeah, because not only is

1689
01:23:05,439 --> 01:23:08,639
Speaker 4: this not just like the university revoking n F one,

1690
01:23:08,680 --> 01:23:11,320
Speaker 4: which they do have the you know, authority to, this

1691
01:23:11,400 --> 01:23:14,120
Speaker 4: is like coming directly from the Trump administration where they

1692
01:23:14,160 --> 01:23:18,400
Speaker 4: are going after specific students without the involvement of the university,

1693
01:23:19,000 --> 01:23:21,719
Speaker 4: and students who may be legal permanent residents.

1694
01:23:21,960 --> 01:23:24,680
Speaker 1: Yeah. Garrison found a fact sheet on white House dot

1695
01:23:24,760 --> 01:23:27,040
Speaker 1: gov where Trump is quoted as saying, quote to all

1696
01:23:27,160 --> 01:23:30,320
Speaker 1: resident aliens who joined in the pro Jahadist protests, we

1697
01:23:30,400 --> 01:23:33,240
Speaker 1: put you on notice. Come twenty twenty five, we will

1698
01:23:33,240 --> 01:23:34,600
Speaker 1: find you and we will deport you.

1699
01:23:34,760 --> 01:23:38,360
Speaker 2: And that would seem to include the legal permanent residence. Yes, yeah, right,

1700
01:23:38,439 --> 01:23:41,960
Speaker 2: like resident alien is a tax status. But again, like,

1701
01:23:42,560 --> 01:23:46,200
Speaker 2: I think it's quite possible that the vagueness in the

1702
01:23:46,280 --> 01:23:48,840
Speaker 2: language is deliberate, not necessarily from Trump, but there are

1703
01:23:48,880 --> 01:23:53,120
Speaker 2: other people within the Trump cabinet who might seek to

1704
01:23:53,640 --> 01:23:56,320
Speaker 2: use that vagueness for things like this, right, like who

1705
01:23:56,400 --> 01:23:57,559
Speaker 2: might see that as a benefit.

1706
01:23:57,800 --> 01:23:59,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, and you've seen that with other things, like

1707
01:23:59,800 --> 01:24:03,479
Speaker 4: with like with Rubio's State Department directives on trans people

1708
01:24:03,520 --> 01:24:06,400
Speaker 4: right now, where they keep the language intentionally vague. They

1709
01:24:06,520 --> 01:24:10,200
Speaker 4: leave the enforcement up to like individual actors, and then

1710
01:24:10,200 --> 01:24:13,200
Speaker 4: they can eventually like figure out the logistics like in

1711
01:24:13,280 --> 01:24:16,200
Speaker 4: court once people be like, oh no, this is illegal,

1712
01:24:16,680 --> 01:24:18,720
Speaker 4: So like, yeah, it is vague because they want to

1713
01:24:18,720 --> 01:24:21,479
Speaker 4: test the actual like full authority of their power. But

1714
01:24:21,600 --> 01:24:24,840
Speaker 4: I think the specific like fact sheet, which is like

1715
01:24:24,840 --> 01:24:29,760
Speaker 4: a sister article towards this executive order, says like James

1716
01:24:29,840 --> 01:24:31,920
Speaker 4: was saying, to all the resident aliens who joined in

1717
01:24:31,960 --> 01:24:34,640
Speaker 4: the pro gihattist protests, we put you on notice. Come

1718
01:24:34,680 --> 01:24:36,760
Speaker 4: twenty twenty five, we will find you and we will

1719
01:24:36,760 --> 01:24:40,920
Speaker 4: deport you. I will also quickly cancel the student visas

1720
01:24:40,920 --> 01:24:44,240
Speaker 4: of all Hamas sympathizers on college campuses which have been

1721
01:24:44,439 --> 01:24:48,760
Speaker 4: infested with radicalism like never before. So there you have

1722
01:24:49,120 --> 01:24:53,879
Speaker 4: him saying both resident aliens, which we can infer probably

1723
01:24:53,880 --> 01:24:57,280
Speaker 4: refers to Green cardholders, as well as student visas. So

1724
01:24:57,640 --> 01:25:01,040
Speaker 4: these are two separate things that he a specifically named

1725
01:25:01,080 --> 01:25:04,280
Speaker 4: as going after. And now you see more direction from

1726
01:25:04,360 --> 01:25:06,880
Speaker 4: Rubio after this arrest that happened on Monday. You see

1727
01:25:06,920 --> 01:25:09,640
Speaker 4: more direction from Rubio and the State Department in like

1728
01:25:09,680 --> 01:25:14,880
Speaker 4: specifically naming legal permanent residents as targets for removal and

1729
01:25:15,040 --> 01:25:18,320
Speaker 4: targets for ice actions, which is not something that is

1730
01:25:18,400 --> 01:25:19,719
Speaker 4: extremely common.

1731
01:25:20,240 --> 01:25:23,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, where I've seen it before was like in cases

1732
01:25:23,160 --> 01:25:26,559
Speaker 1: of material support for terrorism, which but that has quite

1733
01:25:26,600 --> 01:25:28,960
Speaker 1: a high bar of proof, right that's like a listed

1734
01:25:29,040 --> 01:25:34,920
Speaker 1: organization proving a material ie financial or physical support, right

1735
01:25:35,040 --> 01:25:37,519
Speaker 1: like in kind donations like I've written about a guy

1736
01:25:37,520 --> 01:25:39,840
Speaker 1: who is providing material aid to the Islamic State called

1737
01:25:39,880 --> 01:25:43,599
Speaker 1: Siki Remy's HODGEI sending stuff from bass pro actually like

1738
01:25:43,640 --> 01:25:47,120
Speaker 1: thermal scopes and hunting scopes and things like that. But

1739
01:25:47,720 --> 01:25:50,800
Speaker 1: that has a much higher bar than this, which we

1740
01:25:50,880 --> 01:25:53,400
Speaker 1: will see you because we have a legal permanent resident

1741
01:25:53,439 --> 01:25:56,200
Speaker 1: here and they're seeking to revoke that. I imagine we will

1742
01:25:56,240 --> 01:25:58,000
Speaker 1: see a court case and we will see exactly the

1743
01:25:58,120 --> 01:26:02,200
Speaker 1: justification for revoking his green in that court case. That

1744
01:26:02,280 --> 01:26:04,000
Speaker 1: will be some time in the future.

1745
01:26:04,520 --> 01:26:05,920
Speaker 4: Let's go on a quick break and we will come

1746
01:26:05,960 --> 01:26:08,559
Speaker 4: back to discuss some more of the details on what

1747
01:26:08,720 --> 01:26:12,840
Speaker 4: Mark Rubio is actually saying and where this could all

1748
01:26:12,920 --> 01:26:25,720
Speaker 4: end up. Okay, we are back. I would like to

1749
01:26:25,720 --> 01:26:28,360
Speaker 4: talk about specifically some of the rhetoric that Rubio has

1750
01:26:28,439 --> 01:26:31,240
Speaker 4: been using since this arrest and a little bit of

1751
01:26:31,240 --> 01:26:33,679
Speaker 4: what he was saying before. Like we were saying before

1752
01:26:33,720 --> 01:26:36,599
Speaker 4: the break, some of this kind of vague language can

1753
01:26:36,720 --> 01:26:38,720
Speaker 4: kind of be used to their advantage. And this is

1754
01:26:38,840 --> 01:26:42,200
Speaker 4: certainly like riffing off of very vague language that Trump

1755
01:26:42,200 --> 01:26:44,080
Speaker 4: would do on the campaign trail, right where he would

1756
01:26:44,080 --> 01:26:47,439
Speaker 4: talk about wanting to jail or deport protesters, like in general,

1757
01:26:47,520 --> 01:26:50,920
Speaker 4: regardless if they're student visa holders, green card holders, or

1758
01:26:51,000 --> 01:26:54,800
Speaker 4: just US citizens. Right like Trump has made statements about

1759
01:26:54,800 --> 01:26:58,360
Speaker 4: wanting to do all of that, and campaigns like off

1760
01:26:58,360 --> 01:27:01,920
Speaker 4: the cuff statements and the actual like government policy are

1761
01:27:01,920 --> 01:27:04,160
Speaker 4: two different things. And right now, like they're trying to

1762
01:27:04,160 --> 01:27:06,680
Speaker 4: figure out where the line between that is, like how

1763
01:27:06,760 --> 01:27:09,240
Speaker 4: much of this rhetoric can be turned into government policy.

1764
01:27:09,920 --> 01:27:13,000
Speaker 4: And we mentioned like the fact sheet from the executive

1765
01:27:13,120 --> 01:27:16,559
Speaker 4: order that I believe was signed in January, which is

1766
01:27:16,600 --> 01:27:19,760
Speaker 4: you know, to quote unquote combat anti Semitism. And then

1767
01:27:19,920 --> 01:27:22,720
Speaker 4: like last week, so before this arrest happened, we had

1768
01:27:22,760 --> 01:27:28,040
Speaker 4: a post from the Secretary Mark Rubio Twitter account official quote,

1769
01:27:28,120 --> 01:27:32,680
Speaker 4: those who support designated terrorist organizations, including HAMAS, threaten our

1770
01:27:32,800 --> 01:27:36,040
Speaker 4: national security. The United States has zero tolerance for foreign

1771
01:27:36,080 --> 01:27:40,559
Speaker 4: visitors who support terrorists. Violators of US law, including international students,

1772
01:27:40,760 --> 01:27:46,000
Speaker 4: face visa denial or revocation and deportation unquote, So that

1773
01:27:46,080 --> 01:27:50,360
Speaker 4: one specifically focuses, I would say, pretty pretty firmly on

1774
01:27:50,479 --> 01:27:53,360
Speaker 4: people who have student visas. Right, he names like visitors,

1775
01:27:53,960 --> 01:27:57,559
Speaker 4: And then after the arrest happened, he posted a different

1776
01:27:57,600 --> 01:28:01,720
Speaker 4: statement on his own personal account, quote, we will be

1777
01:28:01,760 --> 01:28:06,040
Speaker 4: revoking the visas and or green cards of HAMAS supporters

1778
01:28:06,040 --> 01:28:10,320
Speaker 4: in America so that they can be deported unquote, sharing

1779
01:28:10,360 --> 01:28:14,519
Speaker 4: an ap article. And then the Homeland Security DHS gov

1780
01:28:14,600 --> 01:28:18,479
Speaker 4: account posted on March nine, twenty twenty five, and supported

1781
01:28:18,479 --> 01:28:22,120
Speaker 4: President Trump's executive orders prohibiting anti semitism, and in coordination

1782
01:28:22,160 --> 01:28:25,759
Speaker 4: with the Department of State, US Immigration and Customs Enforcement,

1783
01:28:25,920 --> 01:28:30,919
Speaker 4: arrested Mahmud Khalil, a former Columbia University graduate student. Khalil

1784
01:28:31,160 --> 01:28:35,519
Speaker 4: led activities aligned to hamas a designated terrorist organization ICE

1785
01:28:35,560 --> 01:28:37,599
Speaker 4: in the Department of State are committed to enforcing President

1786
01:28:37,600 --> 01:28:43,040
Speaker 4: Trump's executive orders and protecting US national security unquote. And

1787
01:28:43,080 --> 01:28:45,920
Speaker 4: there's now been a flurry of posts from both the

1788
01:28:45,960 --> 01:28:49,360
Speaker 4: White House account and DTS accounts basically posting like a

1789
01:28:49,400 --> 01:28:53,720
Speaker 4: picture of this person saying that he's aligned with hamas

1790
01:28:54,240 --> 01:28:58,240
Speaker 4: in celebration, almost like styled after a wanted poster, but

1791
01:28:58,280 --> 01:29:01,200
Speaker 4: instead of just reads like arrested. And that is like

1792
01:29:01,280 --> 01:29:03,479
Speaker 4: the that's the rhetoric that like they're using right now

1793
01:29:03,520 --> 01:29:07,479
Speaker 4: on their official accounts, something that like James I think noted,

1794
01:29:07,520 --> 01:29:11,720
Speaker 4: it's it's important to like think about if ICE was

1795
01:29:11,760 --> 01:29:14,240
Speaker 4: just freestyling this action or if there was a directive

1796
01:29:14,320 --> 01:29:17,840
Speaker 4: beforehand to go after green cards specifically, right, And it

1797
01:29:17,840 --> 01:29:20,320
Speaker 4: seems like at least for the people like doing the raid,

1798
01:29:20,400 --> 01:29:23,439
Speaker 4: they did not care nor did they like, no, they

1799
01:29:23,439 --> 01:29:26,080
Speaker 4: weren't informed. They just were told to go after this

1800
01:29:26,120 --> 01:29:30,120
Speaker 4: person from someone higher up, right, and that that very

1801
01:29:30,120 --> 01:29:32,639
Speaker 4: well could be Rubio. I mean a lot of DHS

1802
01:29:32,760 --> 01:29:35,519
Speaker 4: is being ran by Steven Miller right now. A lot

1803
01:29:35,520 --> 01:29:37,280
Speaker 4: of this feels very Miller esque.

1804
01:29:37,520 --> 01:29:41,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, we got an update as of the time of recording.

1805
01:29:41,160 --> 01:29:44,360
Speaker 1: I've just discovered that Mahud Khalil's lawyers filed the lawsuit

1806
01:29:44,400 --> 01:29:47,840
Speaker 1: challenging gives attention and a judge in New York City,

1807
01:29:48,040 --> 01:29:51,960
Speaker 1: federal judge obviously or that Khalil shouldn't be deported while

1808
01:29:52,479 --> 01:29:54,200
Speaker 1: that court then considered his case.

1809
01:29:54,360 --> 01:29:57,759
Speaker 2: Yes, I was going to bring that up so that also, like.

1810
01:29:57,920 --> 01:29:59,639
Speaker 1: His case will we considered in New York City, which

1811
01:29:59,680 --> 01:30:01,519
Speaker 1: is for me, good for him, as opposed to a

1812
01:30:01,640 --> 01:30:03,719
Speaker 1: more conservative jurisdiction elsewhere.

1813
01:30:03,800 --> 01:30:07,720
Speaker 4: Right, totally like this happening in Texas, Like in all

1814
01:30:07,720 --> 01:30:09,599
Speaker 4: of those districts where Elon Musk is trying to set

1815
01:30:09,680 --> 01:30:12,200
Speaker 4: up his corporations, because there's friendly judges, this would be

1816
01:30:12,200 --> 01:30:13,479
Speaker 4: handled quite differently, right.

1817
01:30:13,880 --> 01:30:16,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is something migrants I speak to are at

1818
01:30:16,280 --> 01:30:18,320
Speaker 1: least aware of sometimes that they don't want to enter

1819
01:30:18,360 --> 01:30:20,720
Speaker 1: into Texas because the Fifth Circuit is seen as less

1820
01:30:20,720 --> 01:30:22,680
Speaker 1: favorable to them, and they'd say the ninth circuit where

1821
01:30:22,680 --> 01:30:26,040
Speaker 1: they would be avanted in California. I'm sort of surprised

1822
01:30:26,040 --> 01:30:28,799
Speaker 1: if it is a Miller joint that it isn't someone

1823
01:30:29,040 --> 01:30:31,240
Speaker 1: like U T. Austin or somewhere like that.

1824
01:30:31,560 --> 01:30:35,280
Speaker 2: Now they're going directly after this individual in part because

1825
01:30:35,560 --> 01:30:39,480
Speaker 2: he's somebody that a lot of folks who might otherwise

1826
01:30:39,560 --> 01:30:42,680
Speaker 2: be like up in arms about a move like this,

1827
01:30:43,040 --> 01:30:45,320
Speaker 2: would say because of some of his connections and some

1828
01:30:45,360 --> 01:30:46,960
Speaker 2: of the things he said in the past. Well he's

1829
01:30:47,000 --> 01:30:50,600
Speaker 2: you know, supported groups that are really bad. Like I

1830
01:30:50,640 --> 01:30:53,600
Speaker 2: think they're really trying to find the first case is

1831
01:30:53,600 --> 01:30:55,439
Speaker 2: they want someone that they can have a lot of

1832
01:30:55,479 --> 01:30:58,040
Speaker 2: like liberals off from being too scared to support because

1833
01:30:58,040 --> 01:31:01,240
Speaker 2: he said some things that like they don't want to

1834
01:31:01,560 --> 01:31:03,720
Speaker 2: have attached to them, Like that's that's how they're and

1835
01:31:03,760 --> 01:31:06,160
Speaker 2: they're going to keep pushing that further and further each time.

1836
01:31:06,200 --> 01:31:09,360
Speaker 2: You find some folks who you can scare off a

1837
01:31:09,400 --> 01:31:11,360
Speaker 2: lot of maybe what you might call like their otherwise

1838
01:31:11,439 --> 01:31:13,960
Speaker 2: natural support base because you can point out this thing

1839
01:31:14,040 --> 01:31:15,840
Speaker 2: or that thing they did that was that was not

1840
01:31:15,960 --> 01:31:19,519
Speaker 2: great acou types like when I'm not I'm not insulting

1841
01:31:19,640 --> 01:31:21,000
Speaker 2: or is trying to say bad things about this guy,

1842
01:31:21,040 --> 01:31:23,400
Speaker 2: I'm just saying, like that's that's the tactic here, right,

1843
01:31:23,600 --> 01:31:25,280
Speaker 2: just to try to paint this guy is like, well

1844
01:31:25,320 --> 01:31:27,800
Speaker 2: this guy did this bow you do really want to

1845
01:31:27,840 --> 01:31:29,680
Speaker 2: support that, which is why you have to take an

1846
01:31:29,720 --> 01:31:31,920
Speaker 2: incredibly firm stance that no, the government doesn't get to

1847
01:31:31,920 --> 01:31:33,880
Speaker 2: do this, The State department doesn't get to do this.

1848
01:31:34,000 --> 01:31:36,559
Speaker 4: Yeah, regardless of of any things that this person may.

1849
01:31:36,479 --> 01:31:39,200
Speaker 1: Have said, the First Amendment is for everyone. I don't

1850
01:31:39,240 --> 01:31:42,519
Speaker 1: care what he said, you know, so, Like, it's also

1851
01:31:42,560 --> 01:31:46,000
Speaker 1: worth noting that Colombia, specifically the Intercept is reported on

1852
01:31:46,040 --> 01:31:49,799
Speaker 1: this that there is a WhatsApp group called Columbia Alumnife Israel,

1853
01:31:50,560 --> 01:31:56,120
Speaker 1: and they have been explicitly trying to identify the students

1854
01:31:56,560 --> 01:31:59,560
Speaker 1: and to call for like prosecution and I guess persecution

1855
01:31:59,640 --> 01:32:03,840
Speaker 1: if students like And I think the Columbia encampment was

1856
01:32:03,880 --> 01:32:06,840
Speaker 1: particularly objectionable to a lot of people, and that was

1857
01:32:06,920 --> 01:32:08,360
Speaker 1: kind of the one that got a lot of the

1858
01:32:08,439 --> 01:32:11,720
Speaker 1: national focus in the reporting, right, So it's understandable that

1859
01:32:11,720 --> 01:32:12,760
Speaker 1: that's where they went for this.

1860
01:32:13,400 --> 01:32:16,559
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's it's high visibility. And I think it's also

1861
01:32:17,240 --> 01:32:20,840
Speaker 4: very likely that they're just looking to have a test

1862
01:32:20,920 --> 01:32:23,800
Speaker 4: case for this to see if they can create legal

1863
01:32:23,800 --> 01:32:27,799
Speaker 4: precedent for removing people's green cards for you know, anti

1864
01:32:27,800 --> 01:32:31,519
Speaker 4: genocide protests, right, And the specific details of that will

1865
01:32:31,560 --> 01:32:34,160
Speaker 4: become more and more or less important based on like

1866
01:32:34,240 --> 01:32:36,960
Speaker 4: the results of the case, as long as they can

1867
01:32:37,040 --> 01:32:40,240
Speaker 4: create that precedent, right, and specifically like the president for

1868
01:32:40,600 --> 01:32:43,760
Speaker 4: revoking a green card, something that's pretty substantial. Yeah, they

1869
01:32:43,800 --> 01:32:45,800
Speaker 4: want something that's like, you know, in their mind, like

1870
01:32:45,840 --> 01:32:48,840
Speaker 4: the most favorable towards their outcome. So I mean that's

1871
01:32:48,880 --> 01:32:51,240
Speaker 4: part of what they're trying to do with this specific case,

1872
01:32:51,800 --> 01:32:53,800
Speaker 4: and it is it is very much in line with

1873
01:32:53,800 --> 01:32:56,840
Speaker 4: with Trump's campaign rhetoric and versions of what Trump has

1874
01:32:56,880 --> 01:33:00,599
Speaker 4: said before. And now you're seeing someone like Rubio, someone

1875
01:33:00,640 --> 01:33:03,600
Speaker 4: who's you know a little bit more policy minded, taking

1876
01:33:03,720 --> 01:33:05,160
Speaker 4: steps towards this outcome.

1877
01:33:05,800 --> 01:33:08,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, which I think is like the other thing they

1878
01:33:08,640 --> 01:33:11,240
Speaker 1: didn't get to do, I guess is that they weren't

1879
01:33:11,280 --> 01:33:13,960
Speaker 1: able to like deport the guy at hyper speed, which

1880
01:33:14,000 --> 01:33:16,439
Speaker 1: they have been doing with some people. Yeah, he was

1881
01:33:16,439 --> 01:33:18,800
Speaker 1: detained in New York and then moved to Louisiana, and

1882
01:33:18,840 --> 01:33:22,080
Speaker 1: people were very upset about this, rightly, because it's removing

1883
01:33:22,160 --> 01:33:24,360
Speaker 1: him from easy access to his lawyer and to his

1884
01:33:24,360 --> 01:33:26,639
Speaker 1: family and to his eight month pregnant wife. Right, that's

1885
01:33:26,680 --> 01:33:29,080
Speaker 1: all things that should have be done. It's also something

1886
01:33:29,120 --> 01:33:32,719
Speaker 1: that a Biden administration did routinely. We have other episodes

1887
01:33:32,720 --> 01:33:35,400
Speaker 1: on this actually, especially in San Diego, where we have

1888
01:33:35,520 --> 01:33:38,720
Speaker 1: some funding that allows people who are detained access to

1889
01:33:38,800 --> 01:33:42,759
Speaker 1: legal assistance. It has been very common for those migrants

1890
01:33:42,800 --> 01:33:45,120
Speaker 1: to be then moved to Texas. I've seen it with

1891
01:33:45,240 --> 01:33:47,600
Speaker 1: migrants I've met at the border and I've looked for

1892
01:33:47,600 --> 01:33:51,120
Speaker 1: them in the ICE Immigrant Detention Locator and They've been

1893
01:33:51,160 --> 01:33:54,040
Speaker 1: moved to Texas. It's not uncommon at all. So it's

1894
01:33:54,080 --> 01:33:55,759
Speaker 1: bad that it happened. It was bad that it happened

1895
01:33:55,800 --> 01:33:57,880
Speaker 1: under Biden. It's still bad that it's happening now. We

1896
01:33:57,920 --> 01:34:00,479
Speaker 1: should have let it happen. Then we should support it

1897
01:34:00,479 --> 01:34:01,360
Speaker 1: when it happens now.

1898
01:34:01,640 --> 01:34:03,200
Speaker 4: And I think before we go and break again, I

1899
01:34:03,200 --> 01:34:05,599
Speaker 4: do want to kind of close this section by by

1900
01:34:05,680 --> 01:34:09,559
Speaker 4: talking about how like they don't necessarily need an executive

1901
01:34:09,640 --> 01:34:12,880
Speaker 4: order specifically allowing Trump to do this like like or

1902
01:34:12,960 --> 01:34:14,920
Speaker 4: like Trump doesn't need to make an executive order like

1903
01:34:14,960 --> 01:34:20,120
Speaker 4: explicitly for this based on like immigration deportation law, like

1904
01:34:20,400 --> 01:34:23,440
Speaker 4: there will be an argument made in like in court

1905
01:34:23,520 --> 01:34:26,679
Speaker 4: that that they they have justification for this action already.

1906
01:34:27,040 --> 01:34:29,040
Speaker 4: This is something that I've already been through when I

1907
01:34:29,040 --> 01:34:32,000
Speaker 4: immigrated to the country and like did like my citizenship interview, right,

1908
01:34:32,080 --> 01:34:35,479
Speaker 4: like if you if you have discussed in the past,

1909
01:34:35,560 --> 01:34:38,720
Speaker 4: you know, something that can be construed as support for

1910
01:34:38,760 --> 01:34:42,160
Speaker 4: a terrorist organization, that does disqualify you from US citizenship.

1911
01:34:42,200 --> 01:34:44,560
Speaker 4: And right, so there's gonna be a lot of arguments

1912
01:34:45,360 --> 01:34:49,320
Speaker 4: like around like specifically these terrorism statutes that will make

1913
01:34:49,360 --> 01:34:52,840
Speaker 4: someone like this a subject for removal. Yeah, and like

1914
01:34:53,040 --> 01:34:55,000
Speaker 4: that that's gonna be like the angle in which they

1915
01:34:55,439 --> 01:34:57,559
Speaker 4: they go about this, And I think that's like worth

1916
01:34:57,640 --> 01:34:58,320
Speaker 4: keeping in mind.

1917
01:34:58,600 --> 01:35:00,439
Speaker 2: I also think it's worth because I I don't want

1918
01:35:00,439 --> 01:35:02,160
Speaker 2: to make this because a lot of people online have

1919
01:35:02,280 --> 01:35:05,839
Speaker 2: this shouldn't be our immediate primary concern. Our immediately primary

1920
01:35:05,880 --> 01:35:08,880
Speaker 2: concern should be mood and the other people like him

1921
01:35:08,920 --> 01:35:11,760
Speaker 2: who are in situations like him be targeted. But I

1922
01:35:11,760 --> 01:35:14,200
Speaker 2: don't think it's unreasonable to say that, like if they

1923
01:35:14,200 --> 01:35:16,000
Speaker 2: get away with this, at some point that we'll start

1924
01:35:16,000 --> 01:35:19,080
Speaker 2: saying like look to support palast the government describes like

1925
01:35:19,520 --> 01:35:21,719
Speaker 2: or any support for any group that the government considers

1926
01:35:21,720 --> 01:35:23,599
Speaker 2: a terrorist. It doesn't matter if you were born here

1927
01:35:23,760 --> 01:35:26,719
Speaker 2: as a citizen. You know, we can start like that

1928
01:35:26,720 --> 01:35:29,439
Speaker 2: that is a potential in state of this, which is

1929
01:35:29,760 --> 01:35:33,360
Speaker 2: again not should not be on your front burner. It

1930
01:35:33,400 --> 01:35:35,800
Speaker 2: should be the people being targeted right now. But also

1931
01:35:35,880 --> 01:35:38,439
Speaker 2: an awareness of like this is part of why you

1932
01:35:38,560 --> 01:35:40,519
Speaker 2: have to draw such a hard line. Like if if

1933
01:35:40,520 --> 01:35:43,400
Speaker 2: the situation was reversed and this where a democratic administration

1934
01:35:43,439 --> 01:35:45,960
Speaker 2: coming after an anti vaccine student activist who is a

1935
01:35:46,000 --> 01:35:48,720
Speaker 2: permanent legal resident, it would be wrong for them to

1936
01:35:48,800 --> 01:35:52,240
Speaker 2: disappear them, right, Like that has to be like where

1937
01:35:52,240 --> 01:35:53,120
Speaker 2: the line is drawn.

1938
01:35:53,240 --> 01:35:56,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, the state should not have this ability, Like

1939
01:35:56,160 --> 01:35:58,120
Speaker 4: we should not let them get away with this, and

1940
01:35:58,160 --> 01:36:01,960
Speaker 4: we should put as much support and legal support into

1941
01:36:02,280 --> 01:36:05,040
Speaker 4: preventing this from happening. I really can't say which way

1942
01:36:05,080 --> 01:36:08,400
Speaker 4: this will go, Like immigration law is the one of

1943
01:36:08,400 --> 01:36:10,880
Speaker 4: the most like headache conducing things I've ever had to

1944
01:36:10,920 --> 01:36:12,960
Speaker 4: go through in my entire life.

1945
01:36:13,439 --> 01:36:15,479
Speaker 1: Ah, Like he will be spending a lot of money

1946
01:36:15,520 --> 01:36:16,679
Speaker 1: on immigration lawyers now.

1947
01:36:17,479 --> 01:36:20,320
Speaker 2: Also be really clear, I'm not equateing support for Palestine

1948
01:36:20,360 --> 01:36:22,080
Speaker 2: to being anti vax I'm just saying, like, if you know,

1949
01:36:22,120 --> 01:36:24,280
Speaker 2: if this was like a shitty guy, right, it would

1950
01:36:24,280 --> 01:36:24,840
Speaker 2: still be wrong.

1951
01:36:24,960 --> 01:36:26,920
Speaker 4: People, if it's something that we like to like laugh

1952
01:36:26,960 --> 01:36:31,880
Speaker 4: at for getting measles in Texas, disappearing people bad if

1953
01:36:31,880 --> 01:36:34,760
Speaker 4: you thought Russia was doing anti fascism in Ukraine, it

1954
01:36:34,800 --> 01:36:37,720
Speaker 4: would still be important, right, right, you know, to to

1955
01:36:37,840 --> 01:36:41,200
Speaker 4: do this, And should we take a break and come

1956
01:36:41,240 --> 01:36:42,400
Speaker 4: back and discuss some.

1957
01:36:42,400 --> 01:36:56,439
Speaker 1: More, Yes, yes, I wanted to give a little bit

1958
01:36:56,439 --> 01:36:59,040
Speaker 1: of background here some other stuff that I've been looking into.

1959
01:36:59,320 --> 01:37:02,240
Speaker 1: So in the fifth of February, Attorney General Pam Bondai

1960
01:37:02,320 --> 01:37:05,640
Speaker 1: issued a series of memos. One of these was establishing

1961
01:37:05,640 --> 01:37:08,080
Speaker 1: a quote October seventh task for so I'm going to

1962
01:37:08,160 --> 01:37:11,479
Speaker 1: quote from it here to prioritize seeking justice for victims

1963
01:37:11,479 --> 01:37:14,400
Speaker 1: of October seventh, twenty twenty three terrorist attack in Israel,

1964
01:37:15,120 --> 01:37:18,520
Speaker 1: addressing the ongoing threat post by her Mass and its affiliates,

1965
01:37:18,560 --> 01:37:21,960
Speaker 1: and combating anti Semitic acts of terrorism and civil rights

1966
01:37:22,040 --> 01:37:25,800
Speaker 1: violations in the homeland. It then lifts several action items

1967
01:37:25,840 --> 01:37:29,600
Speaker 1: for the FBI. Right among them is investigating and prosecuting

1968
01:37:29,680 --> 01:37:33,519
Speaker 1: acts of terrorism, anti Semitic civil rights violations, and other

1969
01:37:33,600 --> 01:37:36,599
Speaker 1: federal crimes committed by her Mass supporters in the United States,

1970
01:37:36,760 --> 01:37:41,400
Speaker 1: including on college campuses. The final point is quote supporting

1971
01:37:41,400 --> 01:37:44,240
Speaker 1: efforts by the Israeli government Department of Defense and Department

1972
01:37:44,280 --> 01:37:47,559
Speaker 1: of Treasury to pursue non criminal responses to the October

1973
01:37:47,600 --> 01:37:51,120
Speaker 1: seventh attack and other terrorist activities by her mass. There's

1974
01:37:51,160 --> 01:37:54,479
Speaker 1: a couple of things that are can Obviously, the non

1975
01:37:54,560 --> 01:37:58,200
Speaker 1: criminal responses could include deportation, right like the person is

1976
01:37:58,240 --> 01:37:59,960
Speaker 1: not being accused of a crime, but none less have

1977
01:38:00,120 --> 01:38:03,479
Speaker 1: their visa evoked. Also that the idea of cooperating with

1978
01:38:03,520 --> 01:38:07,400
Speaker 1: a foreign government, a government which is currently committing a genocide,

1979
01:38:07,560 --> 01:38:12,840
Speaker 1: potentially against US citizens or US residence, is quite concerning.

1980
01:38:13,320 --> 01:38:16,519
Speaker 1: It's especially concerning when we talk about that Trump executive

1981
01:38:16,640 --> 01:38:19,360
Speaker 1: order that we've already discussed. Right. One of the parts

1982
01:38:19,360 --> 01:38:21,920
Speaker 1: of that Trump executive order that I noticed that I

1983
01:38:21,960 --> 01:38:25,680
Speaker 1: haven't seen any reporting on was the quote infantry and

1984
01:38:25,760 --> 01:38:29,759
Speaker 1: analysis of all the Title six complaints sort administrative actions

1985
01:38:29,800 --> 01:38:33,960
Speaker 1: including in K through twelve education related to anti Semitism

1986
01:38:34,439 --> 01:38:38,360
Speaker 1: pending or resolved after October seventh, twenty twenty three.

1987
01:38:38,840 --> 01:38:40,599
Speaker 4: Can you explain what Title six is?

1988
01:38:41,080 --> 01:38:44,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can in Garrison, and I would love to so.

1989
01:38:44,720 --> 01:38:46,360
Speaker 1: Title six is part of the Civil Rights Act of

1990
01:38:46,400 --> 01:38:49,679
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty four. Right, it prohibits discrimination based on race, color,

1991
01:38:49,760 --> 01:38:56,720
Speaker 1: or national origin. Yes, it applies to federally funded programs, activities,

1992
01:38:56,960 --> 01:39:00,639
Speaker 1: or institutions which receive federal funding. Right, which were almost

1993
01:39:00,680 --> 01:39:03,800
Speaker 1: every institution of education in this country, apart from some

1994
01:39:04,040 --> 01:39:06,040
Speaker 1: religious private schools. I guess maybe they still get some

1995
01:39:06,080 --> 01:39:09,679
Speaker 1: federal funding. There have been a number of Title six

1996
01:39:09,720 --> 01:39:13,519
Speaker 1: cases filed for anti Semitic discrimination and anti Palastinio or

1997
01:39:13,520 --> 01:39:16,679
Speaker 1: anti Arab or Islamophobic discrimination since October seventh to twenty

1998
01:39:16,720 --> 01:39:20,719
Speaker 1: twenty three. The ones filed for Islamophobic discrimination don't seem

1999
01:39:20,760 --> 01:39:23,680
Speaker 1: to be covered by this, but the other ones do.

2000
01:39:24,160 --> 01:39:28,200
Speaker 1: The Biden administration kind of rushed to finish up and

2001
01:39:28,240 --> 01:39:30,400
Speaker 1: resolve some of these in the last few weeks of

2002
01:39:30,439 --> 01:39:35,760
Speaker 1: his tenure, and normally the results were pretty ineffectual. It

2003
01:39:35,800 --> 01:39:39,080
Speaker 1: was like some more trainings, the review of policies. Anyone

2004
01:39:39,120 --> 01:39:41,920
Speaker 1: who's who's been an educator at one of these institutions

2005
01:39:41,920 --> 01:39:44,040
Speaker 1: will have already been very familiar with the sort of

2006
01:39:44,560 --> 01:39:47,680
Speaker 1: anti discrimination training video that you have to watch, and

2007
01:39:47,720 --> 01:39:49,360
Speaker 1: they were suggesting that you watch more of those videos.

2008
01:39:49,400 --> 01:39:51,479
Speaker 1: I'm not really convinced that that is the way we

2009
01:39:51,520 --> 01:39:55,040
Speaker 1: deal with hatred, but that's why they recommended. The Emory one.

2010
01:39:55,080 --> 01:39:57,920
Speaker 1: I thought was interesting because they told Emory that it

2011
01:39:57,960 --> 01:40:01,120
Speaker 1: had to commit to a quote equitable hand of protests

2012
01:40:01,240 --> 01:40:04,800
Speaker 1: after its campus police were so violent towards anti genocide protesters.

2013
01:40:05,560 --> 01:40:07,439
Speaker 1: A lot of the other cases are still pending, but

2014
01:40:07,479 --> 01:40:09,519
Speaker 1: it seems like the Trump administration is going to go

2015
01:40:09,560 --> 01:40:12,040
Speaker 1: back and review all of them anyway. It does seem

2016
01:40:12,160 --> 01:40:15,559
Speaker 1: like whether it's spread organically or whether it's some kind

2017
01:40:15,600 --> 01:40:18,240
Speaker 1: of campaign to file Title six complaints. A lot of

2018
01:40:18,240 --> 01:40:23,559
Speaker 1: Title six complaints were filed after October seventh, and during

2019
01:40:23,640 --> 01:40:26,200
Speaker 1: this time when we saw like campus protests, when we

2020
01:40:26,200 --> 01:40:29,040
Speaker 1: saw support by some faculty for those campus protests, right,

2021
01:40:29,080 --> 01:40:32,760
Speaker 1: and we saw some faculty who may or may not

2022
01:40:32,760 --> 01:40:34,600
Speaker 1: have supported the protest but felt very strongly about the

2023
01:40:34,680 --> 01:40:36,719
Speaker 1: right of students to have freedom of speech on campus.

2024
01:40:36,920 --> 01:40:39,120
Speaker 1: And I'm sure they would have been kind of wrapped

2025
01:40:39,200 --> 01:40:42,240
Speaker 1: up in this big drag net too. That this potentially

2026
01:40:42,880 --> 01:40:46,080
Speaker 1: raises the specter of like at least career threatening. And again,

2027
01:40:46,160 --> 01:40:49,720
Speaker 1: lots of faculty are not US citizens, right. They might

2028
01:40:49,720 --> 01:40:52,120
Speaker 1: be permanent residents, they might be married to citizens, they

2029
01:40:52,200 --> 01:40:54,439
Speaker 1: might be here on a visa. There are a number

2030
01:40:54,520 --> 01:40:57,559
Speaker 1: of different immigration statuses that they could have that are

2031
01:40:57,600 --> 01:41:00,799
Speaker 1: not US citizen that they could pretendally lose.

2032
01:41:01,479 --> 01:41:04,439
Speaker 4: So what is Trump trying to do about these cases

2033
01:41:04,479 --> 01:41:07,719
Speaker 4: which could be pending or have already been resolved.

2034
01:41:08,040 --> 01:41:11,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, what they said is they want to familiarize

2035
01:41:11,280 --> 01:41:14,960
Speaker 1: institutions with the grounds for inadmissibility, so that that's not

2036
01:41:15,000 --> 01:41:18,000
Speaker 1: allowing someone to enter the United States. Right, and read

2037
01:41:18,000 --> 01:41:19,640
Speaker 1: out the section of the United States Code that a

2038
01:41:19,680 --> 01:41:22,479
Speaker 1: section of the United States Code quote so that such

2039
01:41:22,520 --> 01:41:26,400
Speaker 1: institutions may monitor for and report activities by alien students

2040
01:41:26,400 --> 01:41:29,760
Speaker 1: and staff relevant to those grounds, and for ensuring that

2041
01:41:29,840 --> 01:41:33,600
Speaker 1: such report about aliens lead, as appropriate and consistent with

2042
01:41:33,640 --> 01:41:39,200
Speaker 1: applicable law, to investigations and comma, if warranted, comma actions

2043
01:41:39,200 --> 01:41:42,640
Speaker 1: to remove such aliens. So it's in there, right, This

2044
01:41:42,800 --> 01:41:46,599
Speaker 1: is in Trump's late January executive order. Yeah, this is

2045
01:41:46,680 --> 01:41:50,320
Speaker 1: the legal argument that they're making there, and they're asking

2046
01:41:50,439 --> 01:41:52,840
Speaker 1: universities to do some of that legwork for them. It

2047
01:41:52,920 --> 01:41:56,760
Speaker 1: seems I imagine that this is the same section of

2048
01:41:56,760 --> 01:41:59,960
Speaker 1: the United States Code that we'll see us with reference to,

2049
01:42:00,320 --> 01:42:04,599
Speaker 1: but it refers to like excludable or inadmissible aliens, which

2050
01:42:04,640 --> 01:42:07,120
Speaker 1: is people coming into the country. But I guess they

2051
01:42:07,160 --> 01:42:10,520
Speaker 1: could make an argument that like he disguised his inadmissible

2052
01:42:10,600 --> 01:42:12,800
Speaker 1: status or became inadmissible.

2053
01:42:12,920 --> 01:42:15,920
Speaker 4: Sure, I mean, there's these two sections, right, There's this

2054
01:42:15,960 --> 01:42:18,559
Speaker 4: one that revolves around who can be like admitted, who

2055
01:42:18,600 --> 01:42:21,000
Speaker 4: can be accepted. There's that one section which is a

2056
01:42:21,240 --> 01:42:25,200
Speaker 4: section one two two seven sub section A four a

2057
01:42:25,439 --> 01:42:29,200
Speaker 4: dash C, which is the section specifically on deportation as

2058
01:42:29,240 --> 01:42:33,400
Speaker 4: relating to like supporting quote unquote terrorist activities. So I

2059
01:42:33,479 --> 01:42:35,960
Speaker 4: think they will try to use these both like in conjunction.

2060
01:42:36,920 --> 01:42:38,800
Speaker 4: And I think it's also important to not doubt here

2061
01:42:39,120 --> 01:42:41,840
Speaker 4: the use of the word like aliens as opposed to

2062
01:42:42,240 --> 01:42:45,040
Speaker 4: the word that like Rubio was using previously, which is

2063
01:42:45,080 --> 01:42:49,439
Speaker 4: like visitors, right, Like visitors, I would say, probably applies

2064
01:42:49,520 --> 01:42:53,600
Speaker 4: more to like student visa holders, yeah, non residents versus aliens.

2065
01:42:53,920 --> 01:42:57,840
Speaker 4: Aliens can be anyone, right, like aliens, you can be

2066
01:42:57,920 --> 01:43:00,400
Speaker 4: visa holders, can be Green card holders, right. And so

2067
01:43:00,439 --> 01:43:03,040
Speaker 4: at least in like the official wording here, these are

2068
01:43:03,040 --> 01:43:05,280
Speaker 4: the word I think aliens is important as opposed to

2069
01:43:05,760 --> 01:43:10,160
Speaker 4: like Rubio's like you know posts on x dot com. Yeah,

2070
01:43:10,200 --> 01:43:13,320
Speaker 4: which now become official policy because we're in the hell world.

2071
01:43:14,280 --> 01:43:14,599
Speaker 2: Yep.

2072
01:43:15,200 --> 01:43:17,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, that refers to like just like you know, visitors

2073
01:43:17,800 --> 01:43:18,479
Speaker 4: to this country.

2074
01:43:18,560 --> 01:43:18,800
Speaker 7: Yeah.

2075
01:43:18,920 --> 01:43:20,920
Speaker 1: The right has used aliens for a long time, right,

2076
01:43:20,920 --> 01:43:22,519
Speaker 1: because it differentiates them from people.

2077
01:43:22,600 --> 01:43:25,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like it's very basic like dehumanization like this.

2078
01:43:25,360 --> 01:43:28,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, in this case, it's I think it's important.

2079
01:43:28,000 --> 01:43:30,559
Speaker 1: It's pivotal, so like we have a sense of what

2080
01:43:30,600 --> 01:43:34,720
Speaker 1: will happen there. And maybe I could just finish up

2081
01:43:34,720 --> 01:43:38,040
Speaker 1: by saying, if you are faculty or a student, if

2082
01:43:38,080 --> 01:43:42,280
Speaker 1: you're encountering this, you can reach out to us using

2083
01:43:42,439 --> 01:43:44,920
Speaker 1: our encrypted email. So if you'd like to reach out

2084
01:43:44,960 --> 01:43:47,160
Speaker 1: to us, it's cool zone tips at proton dot me.

2085
01:43:47,360 --> 01:43:50,000
Speaker 1: It's only encrypted if it's encrypted from the sender as

2086
01:43:50,000 --> 01:43:51,960
Speaker 1: well as a recipient, so that would mean using a

2087
01:43:52,000 --> 01:43:55,599
Speaker 1: proton or other encrypted email to reach out rather than

2088
01:43:55,680 --> 01:43:58,439
Speaker 1: using an unencrypted email. If you'd like to reach out again,

2089
01:43:58,520 --> 01:44:01,719
Speaker 1: cool zone tips at proton me. Obviously, this is something

2090
01:44:01,760 --> 01:44:04,160
Speaker 1: we're going to continue taking an interest in, and obviously

2091
01:44:04,160 --> 01:44:07,960
Speaker 1: it's something that we can't report the entirety of now

2092
01:44:08,000 --> 01:44:09,559
Speaker 1: because we're still waiting on the court case, but we

2093
01:44:09,600 --> 01:44:12,080
Speaker 1: are very interested in learning more about it, so please

2094
01:44:12,080 --> 01:44:13,000
Speaker 1: feel free to reach out.

2095
01:44:13,080 --> 01:44:15,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, Yeah.

2096
01:44:15,120 --> 01:44:18,680
Speaker 4: Well, and it's something that Trump is also saying they

2097
01:44:18,680 --> 01:44:22,639
Speaker 4: will be taking a continued interest in. He is promising

2098
01:44:22,640 --> 01:44:25,920
Speaker 4: that this is the first arrest of quote unquote many

2099
01:44:26,280 --> 01:44:29,880
Speaker 4: to come, so as they could do to focus on

2100
01:44:29,920 --> 01:44:32,080
Speaker 4: this we will as well. James, did you have anything

2101
01:44:32,080 --> 01:44:34,040
Speaker 4: else you wanted to say, like re lawyers.

2102
01:44:34,680 --> 01:44:38,640
Speaker 1: Yes, So, as I mentioned before, right, people under by

2103
01:44:38,680 --> 01:44:40,680
Speaker 1: administration had been moved away from their lawyers. This is

2104
01:44:40,800 --> 01:44:43,760
Speaker 1: very common. It seems that now people are being moved

2105
01:44:43,760 --> 01:44:48,760
Speaker 1: away from their lawyers and having teleconference request denied. I

2106
01:44:48,840 --> 01:44:51,720
Speaker 1: let's say, Garrison, you're a lawyer and you have a

2107
01:44:51,760 --> 01:44:53,880
Speaker 1: client detained to San Diego. They moved to Texas, and

2108
01:44:53,920 --> 01:44:56,200
Speaker 1: now you can't tele conference in for a ten minute hearing,

2109
01:44:56,800 --> 01:44:59,080
Speaker 1: so you would have to fly right for that ten

2110
01:44:59,120 --> 01:45:01,840
Speaker 1: minute heref which is going to make it impossible both

2111
01:45:01,840 --> 01:45:05,240
Speaker 1: in time down to financial terms. What I'm understanding. I'm

2112
01:45:05,280 --> 01:45:07,840
Speaker 1: still digging into this a little bit more, but that's

2113
01:45:07,880 --> 01:45:10,240
Speaker 1: what I'm hearing. So this is going to be an

2114
01:45:10,280 --> 01:45:12,160
Speaker 1: ongoing thing. I guess if you're an immigration lawyer in

2115
01:45:12,160 --> 01:45:14,160
Speaker 1: one of the places people are being sent to, like Texas,

2116
01:45:14,200 --> 01:45:16,040
Speaker 1: you can help. But you probably already know that, and

2117
01:45:16,040 --> 01:45:18,120
Speaker 1: you're probably already doing that, and you're probably already very

2118
01:45:18,200 --> 01:45:21,200
Speaker 1: very overworked. Do you work asylum cases? So yeah, I

2119
01:45:21,200 --> 01:45:24,640
Speaker 1: think now is the time for groups like the ACLU

2120
01:45:24,720 --> 01:45:27,760
Speaker 1: to step up or shut up, and we'll see well.

2121
01:45:27,640 --> 01:45:31,360
Speaker 2: In the ACOU has come out against Mamod's arrest. Okay, good.

2122
01:45:31,600 --> 01:45:35,559
Speaker 2: The ADL obviously totally for it. Shocked at the ADL,

2123
01:45:35,680 --> 01:45:38,600
Speaker 2: an organization formed to help avoid another Holocaust, does not

2124
01:45:38,680 --> 01:45:42,840
Speaker 2: see any potential danger in a state redefining citizenship in

2125
01:45:42,920 --> 01:45:46,080
Speaker 2: order to disappear as political enemies. So we love the

2126
01:45:46,120 --> 01:45:49,200
Speaker 2: ADL here, folks. But the ACLU did. I mean, we'll

2127
01:45:49,240 --> 01:45:51,680
Speaker 2: see if they do anything, but they did, like make

2128
01:45:51,680 --> 01:45:52,200
Speaker 2: a statement.

2129
01:45:52,479 --> 01:45:54,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, they've been very good. I should say, the ACLU

2130
01:45:54,840 --> 01:45:57,280
Speaker 1: has been pursuing a lot of litigation. It's Trump administration.

2131
01:45:57,640 --> 01:45:59,640
Speaker 2: This is the sort of thing they're pretty consistently.

2132
01:46:00,439 --> 01:46:03,400
Speaker 1: Yes, especially at a national level, they've been very good

2133
01:46:03,400 --> 01:46:07,320
Speaker 1: at this. And so yeah, you know, shout out to them.

2134
01:46:07,360 --> 01:46:08,840
Speaker 1: I guess, I don't know. We don't need to shout

2135
01:46:08,880 --> 01:46:11,400
Speaker 1: it out. It's their job. Yeah, they get millions of dollars,

2136
01:46:11,920 --> 01:46:13,519
Speaker 1: Like this is literally why why you're there?

2137
01:46:13,600 --> 01:46:16,400
Speaker 3: Do a good job or else you'd better.

2138
01:46:16,160 --> 01:46:20,479
Speaker 2: Do something else too, like yeah, yeah, you'd better show up.

2139
01:46:20,520 --> 01:46:22,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, don't donate to the ad L. I guess if

2140
01:46:22,880 --> 01:46:25,160
Speaker 1: you were thinking of doing that after listening to.

2141
01:46:25,080 --> 01:46:50,760
Speaker 2: This podcast, Oh my god, you guys, it could happen here,

2142
01:46:51,840 --> 01:46:56,640
Speaker 2: meaning our podcast, it could, it is, It's happened.

2143
01:46:57,280 --> 01:47:00,960
Speaker 4: Robert, shouldn't you rename the podcast it is happening here?

2144
01:47:01,200 --> 01:47:01,400
Speaker 7: Yeah?

2145
01:47:01,479 --> 01:47:03,599
Speaker 2: Uh huh, that's that's a fun joke that I only

2146
01:47:03,640 --> 01:47:09,120
Speaker 2: hear forty seven times a day. And the whole point

2147
01:47:09,160 --> 01:47:12,360
Speaker 2: of the podcast was, well, initially I was a crazy

2148
01:47:12,400 --> 01:47:15,240
Speaker 2: person saying a bunch of stuff would happen, and now

2149
01:47:15,280 --> 01:47:19,559
Speaker 2: it's a bunch of that stuff happened, and even more

2150
01:47:19,560 --> 01:47:22,840
Speaker 2: of it looks very likely. And so now I just

2151
01:47:22,880 --> 01:47:24,080
Speaker 2: feel bad all the time.

2152
01:47:24,600 --> 01:47:26,640
Speaker 1: It's going to be called I fucking called it. I

2153
01:47:26,680 --> 01:47:29,080
Speaker 1: fucking told you, bro, I said this was going to happen.

2154
01:47:29,560 --> 01:47:32,639
Speaker 4: Why don't you redad the podcast? I just feel bad

2155
01:47:32,640 --> 01:47:33,280
Speaker 4: all the time?

2156
01:47:33,479 --> 01:47:35,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, why don't you rename the podcast? Robert should have

2157
01:47:35,800 --> 01:47:39,720
Speaker 2: bought more stock and ammunition companies than he did. And

2158
01:47:39,880 --> 01:47:43,320
Speaker 2: DGI jeez, should I have bought stock and DGI?

2159
01:47:43,720 --> 01:47:48,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm gonna buy her a little DGI drone.

2160
01:47:48,680 --> 01:47:50,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, there we go. A lot of people are going

2161
01:47:50,320 --> 01:47:53,519
Speaker 2: to be buying little DGI drones here very soon, James.

2162
01:47:55,360 --> 01:47:56,960
Speaker 1: I should point out that I'm buying one. It's not

2163
01:47:57,000 --> 01:47:58,240
Speaker 1: capable of carrying a payload.

2164
01:47:58,680 --> 01:48:01,439
Speaker 4: It's definitely a s for investments to pull out your

2165
01:48:01,479 --> 01:48:04,880
Speaker 4: furrow one k. Now, when the market's crashing, use that

2166
01:48:04,960 --> 01:48:08,320
Speaker 4: money by drones. Those drones will be worth a lot

2167
01:48:08,360 --> 01:48:09,400
Speaker 4: more in five years.

2168
01:48:10,120 --> 01:48:12,320
Speaker 1: Or what is that?

2169
01:48:12,439 --> 01:48:12,720
Speaker 7: That is?

2170
01:48:12,960 --> 01:48:15,880
Speaker 1: That is a sound of a sound investment, a box

2171
01:48:15,920 --> 01:48:16,560
Speaker 1: of bullets.

2172
01:48:17,040 --> 01:48:18,800
Speaker 4: It's like how boomers used to like invest in like

2173
01:48:18,880 --> 01:48:22,920
Speaker 4: silver or gold as like a stable current. No, we're

2174
01:48:22,960 --> 01:48:27,400
Speaker 4: investing in DGI, like physical DG hydrones.

2175
01:48:28,240 --> 01:48:31,200
Speaker 2: We are investing in drones and boxes of gunpowder.

2176
01:48:31,720 --> 01:48:33,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, you gotta get it in a bottle. Rubbed it

2177
01:48:33,920 --> 01:48:36,479
Speaker 1: in a box. It can get light struck or get moist.

2178
01:48:36,479 --> 01:48:39,040
Speaker 1: You want to get it in a special black black bottle.

2179
01:48:39,080 --> 01:48:41,920
Speaker 2: James, I keep all of my gunpowder. And uh, you

2180
01:48:41,960 --> 01:48:44,719
Speaker 2: know how like people used to take cocaine by wrapping

2181
01:48:44,720 --> 01:48:46,280
Speaker 2: it in toilet paper and swallowing it.

2182
01:48:46,600 --> 01:48:46,680
Speaker 5: No?

2183
01:48:47,040 --> 01:48:49,960
Speaker 1: Sure, okay, Well did you say somebody.

2184
01:48:51,960 --> 01:48:56,840
Speaker 2: Speaking of toilet paper? Nate Silver has a newsletter and

2185
01:48:56,960 --> 01:48:59,720
Speaker 2: it would be useful as toilet paper more so than

2186
01:48:59,760 --> 01:49:01,080
Speaker 2: it is as a newsletter.

2187
01:49:01,200 --> 01:49:03,840
Speaker 4: Sorry, I just got like PTSD flashbacks from twenty twenty

2188
01:49:03,880 --> 01:49:05,519
Speaker 4: four whend you said that it's okay.

2189
01:49:05,720 --> 01:49:11,400
Speaker 2: Normally my rule of thumb is every election, usually starting

2190
01:49:11,439 --> 01:49:16,240
Speaker 2: in like December, the year before election year, I begrudgingly

2191
01:49:16,600 --> 01:49:19,880
Speaker 2: fight down a series of panic attacks, vomit three or

2192
01:49:19,880 --> 01:49:22,160
Speaker 2: four times in a bucket, and then head over to

2193
01:49:22,240 --> 01:49:24,960
Speaker 2: Nate Silver's blog to see what he's saying about the polls.

2194
01:49:25,360 --> 01:49:27,679
Speaker 2: And I do this. I hate that I keep having

2195
01:49:27,960 --> 01:49:30,760
Speaker 2: I have regularly on election the years people were like but.

2196
01:49:30,720 --> 01:49:31,400
Speaker 5: He was always wrong.

2197
01:49:31,439 --> 01:49:34,799
Speaker 2: It's like, no, he's reasonably good on polls. He's usually

2198
01:49:34,840 --> 01:49:37,920
Speaker 2: if you read what he's saying about presidential polls, the

2199
01:49:38,000 --> 01:49:41,400
Speaker 2: reality bears out pretty close to that. So I read

2200
01:49:41,479 --> 01:49:44,920
Speaker 2: him during elections and I hate it because he's never

2201
01:49:44,960 --> 01:49:47,640
Speaker 2: been right about anything else. But he's he's a gambler.

2202
01:49:48,600 --> 01:49:52,479
Speaker 2: He's a degenerate, filthy gambler. And so when we're talking

2203
01:49:52,520 --> 01:49:56,719
Speaker 2: about degenerate, filthy gambler stuff, and by god, election polls

2204
01:49:56,760 --> 01:50:00,679
Speaker 2: are the most degenerate type of gambling that exists worth reading.

2205
01:50:01,040 --> 01:50:03,920
Speaker 2: And then after the election, no matter how well or

2206
01:50:04,160 --> 01:50:07,240
Speaker 2: badly it goes, I ignore him again for four years.

2207
01:50:07,240 --> 01:50:09,479
Speaker 2: And I didn't get to do that this year because

2208
01:50:09,520 --> 01:50:12,800
Speaker 2: on February twenty fifth, twenty twenty five, Nate wrote a

2209
01:50:12,840 --> 01:50:16,680
Speaker 2: column called Elon Musk and spiky intelligence.

2210
01:50:17,040 --> 01:50:19,320
Speaker 4: Spiky intelligence. Am I hearing that right?

2211
01:50:19,920 --> 01:50:23,640
Speaker 2: Spiky intelligence? Yes? And it very helpfully starts with a

2212
01:50:23,720 --> 01:50:27,240
Speaker 2: drawing that I'm sure he used some AI, like he

2213
01:50:27,600 --> 01:50:30,519
Speaker 2: must have used some AI like video software to do that,

2214
01:50:30,720 --> 01:50:34,080
Speaker 2: just like shows you a kind of spiky star looking

2215
01:50:34,160 --> 01:50:37,519
Speaker 2: thing and then like a blob with rounded edges. I

2216
01:50:37,560 --> 01:50:41,080
Speaker 2: can't begin to imagine why Nate Silver thought that, like

2217
01:50:41,280 --> 01:50:42,720
Speaker 2: we needed this illustrated.

2218
01:50:42,840 --> 01:50:43,559
Speaker 4: I have to see this.

2219
01:50:43,640 --> 01:50:45,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I would like it to be shared.

2220
01:50:45,680 --> 01:50:48,680
Speaker 2: Look at this? Why did you, like, oh promise of

2221
01:50:48,720 --> 01:50:53,560
Speaker 2: AI we couldn't yes, wow, yeah yeah, it just it

2222
01:50:53,560 --> 01:50:56,679
Speaker 2: looks like maybe an amoeba if you looks like an amoeba,

2223
01:50:56,800 --> 01:50:58,679
Speaker 2: and then like a poorly drawn star.

2224
01:50:58,880 --> 01:51:01,960
Speaker 3: Is it's to keep this is? This is an actual thing.

2225
01:51:02,160 --> 01:51:04,000
Speaker 1: This sifts you wait, this is a thing.

2226
01:51:04,320 --> 01:51:06,519
Speaker 4: This is This is Boba and Kiki with a weird

2227
01:51:06,560 --> 01:51:09,320
Speaker 4: like digital fuzz over the.

2228
01:51:09,280 --> 01:51:10,599
Speaker 2: Fucker Boba and Kiki.

2229
01:51:11,040 --> 01:51:12,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, Garrison, Yeah.

2230
01:51:12,520 --> 01:51:15,120
Speaker 4: It's a it's like a social experiment to like ask

2231
01:51:15,240 --> 01:51:18,639
Speaker 4: people what like the emotional correspondence of each of these

2232
01:51:18,640 --> 01:51:19,360
Speaker 4: shapes are, like.

2233
01:51:19,320 --> 01:51:23,040
Speaker 2: Which was oh, it's like a then sure?

2234
01:51:23,320 --> 01:51:25,720
Speaker 4: Like like which one looks which one looks nicer, which

2235
01:51:25,760 --> 01:51:28,479
Speaker 4: one looks meaner, you know that sort of thing. I'm

2236
01:51:28,479 --> 01:51:31,280
Speaker 4: a Kiki type, like like I I am a Kiky

2237
01:51:31,840 --> 01:51:34,679
Speaker 4: in terms in terms of my behavior, I am Garrison.

2238
01:51:34,800 --> 01:51:36,880
Speaker 2: Now that you bring up Rorshak, all I can think

2239
01:51:36,880 --> 01:51:38,920
Speaker 2: of is how cool it would be if Rorshak from

2240
01:51:38,960 --> 01:51:41,760
Speaker 2: The Watchman showed up in Nate Silver's house and did

2241
01:51:41,800 --> 01:51:42,160
Speaker 2: his thing.

2242
01:51:43,960 --> 01:51:50,000
Speaker 4: Unfortunately, I think Rorshak and Night Silver might get friends.

2243
01:51:50,320 --> 01:51:53,800
Speaker 2: Actually yeah, no, no, Nate would. But after them getting

2244
01:51:53,840 --> 01:51:56,040
Speaker 2: along for like forty five minutes, Nate would take him

2245
01:51:56,040 --> 01:51:59,040
Speaker 2: to an illegal card game, and Rorshak would murder everybody

2246
01:51:59,080 --> 01:52:02,839
Speaker 2: in the room because they were gambling without a license.

2247
01:52:05,120 --> 01:52:08,800
Speaker 4: So I'm assuming Theate's going to try to argue that

2248
01:52:08,800 --> 01:52:12,599
Speaker 4: that Musk's intelligence is akin to the kiki drug here

2249
01:52:12,840 --> 01:52:16,360
Speaker 4: as opposed to like the empathetic right there.

2250
01:52:16,360 --> 01:52:18,240
Speaker 2: Actually, yes, there is a little bit of that in there.

2251
01:52:18,560 --> 01:52:21,160
Speaker 2: He does not mention this Kiki and Boba thing. I

2252
01:52:21,160 --> 01:52:23,639
Speaker 2: don't know if that's because I'm supposed to just infer

2253
01:52:23,720 --> 01:52:26,439
Speaker 2: it from the image or if he's Okay, we'll get

2254
01:52:26,479 --> 01:52:28,479
Speaker 2: your opinion on it is. Is he ripping these people off

2255
01:52:28,840 --> 01:52:30,800
Speaker 2: because this doesn't count as enough for him to be

2256
01:52:30,840 --> 01:52:33,639
Speaker 2: crediting them if this is the underpinning of his stupid idea,

2257
01:52:33,680 --> 01:52:35,960
Speaker 2: which he credits to his stupid book that he came

2258
01:52:36,040 --> 01:52:37,559
Speaker 2: up with later. But I'm just going to start reading

2259
01:52:37,560 --> 01:52:40,439
Speaker 2: the stupid column. Well hit us with the second paragraph,

2260
01:52:40,479 --> 01:52:43,280
Speaker 2: because that fuck Kevin gotten paragraph one JAKA.

2261
01:52:43,560 --> 01:52:45,000
Speaker 1: That radicalized me immediately.

2262
01:52:45,000 --> 01:52:47,760
Speaker 2: There's been a debate raging on Twitter. Noah Smith can

2263
01:52:47,840 --> 01:52:50,320
Speaker 2: run you through the parameters about the intelligence of the

2264
01:52:50,360 --> 01:52:54,680
Speaker 2: platform's owner, Elon Musk. My contribution was to suggest and

2265
01:52:54,720 --> 01:52:57,120
Speaker 2: then there's a little ie in parentheses because we need

2266
01:52:57,160 --> 01:53:00,400
Speaker 2: that Elon is obviously pretty bright, and then the two

2267
01:53:00,400 --> 01:53:04,080
Speaker 2: eyes in parentheses. This shouldn't be conflated with moral judgment.

2268
01:53:04,360 --> 01:53:08,360
Speaker 2: Highly intelligent people do lots of bad things. Okay, you'd

2269
01:53:08,400 --> 01:53:11,320
Speaker 2: think this wouldn't be especially controversial, but since it involves

2270
01:53:11,360 --> 01:53:14,559
Speaker 2: Elon and intelligence, well it was. Elon has run founded

2271
01:53:14,640 --> 01:53:18,799
Speaker 2: or co founded Tesla, SpaceX, open Ai, neuralink Xai, PayPal,

2272
01:53:18,920 --> 01:53:22,800
Speaker 2: and more recently Twitter. He's also managed to steer himself

2273
01:53:22,840 --> 01:53:24,800
Speaker 2: into a position where he's now the de facto chief

2274
01:53:24,840 --> 01:53:27,200
Speaker 2: of staff to the President of the United States. I

2275
01:53:27,240 --> 01:53:29,759
Speaker 2: do not doubt that Elon has gotten lucky in various respects.

2276
01:53:29,800 --> 01:53:32,920
Speaker 2: Some of these were long shot bets, and Walter Isaacson's

2277
01:53:32,960 --> 01:53:35,640
Speaker 2: biography of must documents he thought he'd be ruined if

2278
01:53:35,680 --> 01:53:38,479
Speaker 2: there had been one more failed SpaceX launch. The success

2279
01:53:38,520 --> 01:53:41,439
Speaker 2: of some of these enterprises might also be debated. Twitter

2280
01:53:41,520 --> 01:53:43,880
Speaker 2: was a candy play for cultural and political influence, but

2281
01:53:43,920 --> 01:53:46,280
Speaker 2: it probably And he doesn't bring up in this whole

2282
01:53:46,280 --> 01:53:48,400
Speaker 2: thing where he's talking about like all his successful companies,

2283
01:53:48,840 --> 01:53:52,000
Speaker 2: not a word about the boring company, not a word

2284
01:53:52,000 --> 01:53:52,880
Speaker 2: about hyper loop.

2285
01:53:53,200 --> 01:53:55,599
Speaker 1: Right, Well, any of the failed on his.

2286
01:53:55,600 --> 01:53:58,520
Speaker 2: Record does seem better if you ignore the two massively

2287
01:53:58,600 --> 01:54:01,640
Speaker 2: publicized and invest did absolute failures.

2288
01:54:01,760 --> 01:54:03,880
Speaker 4: Yes, well, and last week, I know there was a

2289
01:54:03,880 --> 01:54:06,360
Speaker 4: space X lunch. I'm sure it went well. I'm sure

2290
01:54:06,360 --> 01:54:09,840
Speaker 4: it didn't fling debris all over lower.

2291
01:54:10,160 --> 01:54:13,960
Speaker 2: I'm sure he didn't nearly destroy several commercial aircraft, also

2292
01:54:14,280 --> 01:54:17,880
Speaker 2: crediting it like, yeah, I guess technically co founded open ai,

2293
01:54:18,000 --> 01:54:19,800
Speaker 2: but not in a way that mattered. He just shot

2294
01:54:19,840 --> 01:54:23,400
Speaker 2: down money in there and then get kind of edged out. Sure, Yes,

2295
01:54:24,000 --> 01:54:26,719
Speaker 2: and is actively in a conflict with everybody who did

2296
01:54:27,160 --> 01:54:31,080
Speaker 2: make open ai as prominent as it is. Again, Natela

2297
01:54:31,120 --> 01:54:33,280
Speaker 2: has to leave a lot out in order to start

2298
01:54:33,320 --> 01:54:34,320
Speaker 2: making this case.

2299
01:54:34,560 --> 01:54:36,680
Speaker 4: But so he's going to argue that, you know, we're

2300
01:54:36,680 --> 01:54:39,520
Speaker 4: going to see how how well this co presidency goes.

2301
01:54:39,560 --> 01:54:41,800
Speaker 4: But he's probably a pretty smart guy to get all

2302
01:54:41,880 --> 01:54:42,760
Speaker 4: of this stuff done. R.

2303
01:54:42,800 --> 01:54:42,960
Speaker 3: Yeah.

2304
01:54:42,960 --> 01:54:45,560
Speaker 2: And he's also saying, well, like maybe Twitter won't be profitable,

2305
01:54:45,560 --> 01:54:47,720
Speaker 2: but we'll see how you know, he could probably profit

2306
01:54:47,800 --> 01:54:49,920
Speaker 2: from being the de facto chief of staff. Not a

2307
01:54:49,960 --> 01:54:52,040
Speaker 2: word from Nate about like, yeah, but he's just like that,

2308
01:54:52,240 --> 01:54:54,560
Speaker 2: just breaking the law. So why are why are we

2309
01:54:54,680 --> 01:54:57,360
Speaker 2: Why aren't we including in our canny businessman guys that

2310
01:54:57,440 --> 01:55:00,760
Speaker 2: get rich selling like shitloads of heroin for the cartels,

2311
01:55:00,880 --> 01:55:04,680
Speaker 2: Because yes, if you are breaking the loss, sometimes that

2312
01:55:04,720 --> 01:55:06,360
Speaker 2: goes well for you financially.

2313
01:55:07,040 --> 01:55:09,200
Speaker 4: Well, Walter White, they've done some bad things.

2314
01:55:09,240 --> 01:55:12,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, but but you can't deny he was a brilliant

2315
01:55:12,160 --> 01:55:18,640
Speaker 2: method cook. But I don't care what Elon's SAT score is.

2316
01:55:18,800 --> 01:55:22,600
Speaker 2: Fourteen hundred. According to Isaacson, he's clearly some sort of

2317
01:55:22,640 --> 01:55:25,879
Speaker 2: outlier in many ways people would associate with intelligence, probably

2318
01:55:25,920 --> 01:55:29,640
Speaker 2: even a genius. And yet when my first off, it

2319
01:55:29,680 --> 01:55:32,400
Speaker 2: becomes clear through this that Nate does not consider a

2320
01:55:32,440 --> 01:55:35,720
Speaker 2: fourteen hundred to be an impressive SAT score and would

2321
01:55:35,760 --> 01:55:38,960
Speaker 2: normally be judgmental of someone who had an SAT score

2322
01:55:39,000 --> 01:55:41,320
Speaker 2: of fourteen hundred if it weren't for all of Elon's

2323
01:55:41,320 --> 01:55:44,800
Speaker 2: other genius accomplishments. And yet, when my partner and I

2324
01:55:44,880 --> 01:55:46,560
Speaker 2: were heading to dinner the other day and we saw

2325
01:55:46,600 --> 01:55:48,920
Speaker 2: some tweet that Elon sent I forget which one because

2326
01:55:48,920 --> 01:55:51,760
Speaker 2: he tweets so much, we were both like, man, he's

2327
01:55:51,800 --> 01:55:54,720
Speaker 2: such a dumbass. Yes, someone can be both a genius

2328
01:55:54,760 --> 01:55:57,720
Speaker 2: and a dumbass. Welcome to what I call spikey intelligence.

2329
01:55:57,760 --> 01:55:58,280
Speaker 4: Here we go.

2330
01:55:58,800 --> 01:56:01,520
Speaker 2: This gets to like the core or what's annoying about

2331
01:56:01,600 --> 01:56:04,240
Speaker 2: Nate is his need to He's one of these guys.

2332
01:56:04,280 --> 01:56:07,280
Speaker 2: You know, you know what it is. He's an intellectual

2333
01:56:07,440 --> 01:56:11,680
Speaker 2: enclosurist right where he's not confident to be like everyone

2334
01:56:11,760 --> 01:56:14,080
Speaker 2: is very aware of the fact that no one is

2335
01:56:14,120 --> 01:56:17,120
Speaker 2: good at everything, and that people have holes in their competence,

2336
01:56:17,440 --> 01:56:20,560
Speaker 2: and that there are like brilliant surgeons who are bad

2337
01:56:20,680 --> 01:56:23,960
Speaker 2: fathers or whatever, because there are different kinds of intelligence.

2338
01:56:24,000 --> 01:56:27,560
Speaker 2: This is like a broadly common understanding. Nate has to

2339
01:56:27,600 --> 01:56:29,760
Speaker 2: give it a name so that he can sell his books.

2340
01:56:29,760 --> 01:56:31,560
Speaker 2: So he gives it the names. It's like an intellectual.

2341
01:56:31,640 --> 01:56:34,200
Speaker 2: Now it's my idea. I'm the one who came up

2342
01:56:34,240 --> 01:56:37,560
Speaker 2: with the concept that smart people can be dumbasses. Stop it, Nate,

2343
01:56:37,600 --> 01:56:38,280
Speaker 2: it's annoying.

2344
01:56:38,720 --> 01:56:42,520
Speaker 1: Capital ask Capital I rights to trademark spike intelligence.

2345
01:56:42,600 --> 01:56:47,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Now he acknowledges that this isn't entirely original,

2346
01:56:47,800 --> 01:56:51,720
Speaker 2: and then links to somebody without really like crediting them. Interestingly,

2347
01:56:51,760 --> 01:56:53,880
Speaker 2: many of the instances online refer to people of the

2348
01:56:54,120 --> 01:56:57,400
Speaker 2: on the autism spectrum. Musk has publicly stated that he

2349
01:56:57,440 --> 01:57:00,680
Speaker 2: has Asperger syndrome. But the concept is simple. All intelligence

2350
01:57:00,720 --> 01:57:04,080
Speaker 2: is a multi dimensional phenomenon. The scientific consensus is that

2351
01:57:04,120 --> 01:57:07,240
Speaker 2: there's also something known as a G factor, sometimes also

2352
01:57:07,320 --> 01:57:11,000
Speaker 2: called general intelligence. As an empirical matter, most traits we'd

2353
01:57:11,000 --> 01:57:14,640
Speaker 2: associate with intelligence are positively correlated. For instance, math and

2354
01:57:14,760 --> 01:57:17,960
Speaker 2: verbal skills and the gire are correlated. The correlations are

2355
01:57:18,000 --> 01:57:19,760
Speaker 2: loose enough that you'll wind up with all sorts of

2356
01:57:19,760 --> 01:57:22,800
Speaker 2: different permutations on the spectrum of human behavior. And he's

2357
01:57:22,840 --> 01:57:24,600
Speaker 2: just going into like he talks about like the absent

2358
01:57:24,640 --> 01:57:28,080
Speaker 2: minded professor, Like it's all just these these very common

2359
01:57:28,080 --> 01:57:31,920
Speaker 2: ideas that like, yeah, people are usually bad at more

2360
01:57:31,960 --> 01:57:35,400
Speaker 2: things than they're good at, right, Like it's there's no

2361
01:57:35,440 --> 01:57:40,720
Speaker 2: need to explain how elon Musk has been successful at

2362
01:57:40,800 --> 01:57:43,440
Speaker 2: certain things, but Nate does and he has to keep

2363
01:57:43,480 --> 01:57:45,400
Speaker 2: going back to. Like he makes a comment later and

2364
01:57:45,480 --> 01:57:48,520
Speaker 2: here about how Musk is clearly a brilliant engineer. He

2365
01:57:48,520 --> 01:57:51,000
Speaker 2: doesn't back this up with evidence. He just says that, Like, well,

2366
01:57:51,040 --> 01:57:53,560
Speaker 2: if you read the book that Ashley Vance wrote, he

2367
01:57:53,680 --> 01:57:56,600
Speaker 2: obviously signed off on a lot of great engineering moves,

2368
01:57:56,720 --> 01:57:59,080
Speaker 2: which ignores the fact that, like he's not making any

2369
01:57:59,120 --> 01:58:02,040
Speaker 2: of these decisions, Like he bought a company that already

2370
01:58:02,080 --> 01:58:05,280
Speaker 2: had good automotive technology. He hired a bunch of rocket

2371
01:58:05,280 --> 01:58:10,720
Speaker 2: engineers to design rockets. Elon is arguably good at hiring

2372
01:58:10,800 --> 01:58:15,280
Speaker 2: in certain circumstances, and he is inarguably a great hype man, right,

2373
01:58:15,440 --> 01:58:18,680
Speaker 2: Like that's the actual brilliance that Elon has is he

2374
01:58:18,760 --> 01:58:21,360
Speaker 2: was very very good at hyping people up and getting

2375
01:58:21,360 --> 01:58:24,040
Speaker 2: people to believe in him until he was too big

2376
01:58:24,080 --> 01:58:26,920
Speaker 2: to fail. Like that's the one thing he actually did.

2377
01:58:27,400 --> 01:58:29,880
Speaker 2: But Nate can't accept that because I think it kind of,

2378
01:58:30,160 --> 01:58:32,760
Speaker 2: among other things, it kind of reveals what Nate is,

2379
01:58:33,120 --> 01:58:35,920
Speaker 2: who is a guy who was really good at one

2380
01:58:36,120 --> 01:58:40,120
Speaker 2: narrow thing and now has a career writing about everything,

2381
01:58:40,880 --> 01:58:44,560
Speaker 2: and he can't that's like a dangerous thing for Nate

2382
01:58:44,680 --> 01:58:46,240
Speaker 2: to think too hard about.

2383
01:58:47,200 --> 01:58:52,000
Speaker 4: Let's learn more about Nate's spiky intelligence after these very

2384
01:58:52,040 --> 01:58:53,720
Speaker 4: soft and soothing ads.

2385
01:58:53,920 --> 01:59:05,520
Speaker 6: Yeah we're back.

2386
01:59:05,640 --> 01:59:07,960
Speaker 2: I want to talk a little bit about the danger

2387
01:59:08,120 --> 01:59:10,720
Speaker 2: of being a guy who gets famous for being really

2388
01:59:10,720 --> 01:59:13,240
Speaker 2: good at one thing and then gets a job talking

2389
01:59:13,240 --> 01:59:16,520
Speaker 2: about everything, because I've had a version of that experience,

2390
01:59:16,640 --> 01:59:19,760
Speaker 2: and let me tell you, you're not ever going to be

2391
01:59:20,200 --> 01:59:22,760
Speaker 2: competent to discuss all of the things that you can

2392
01:59:22,800 --> 01:59:26,440
Speaker 2: make money talking about if you're a popular entertainer. No

2393
01:59:26,480 --> 01:59:29,240
Speaker 2: one ever has been and no one ever will be,

2394
01:59:29,840 --> 01:59:31,840
Speaker 2: which is why what you ought to do is the

2395
01:59:31,880 --> 01:59:35,240
Speaker 2: thing Nate initially tried to do, which is bring on

2396
01:59:35,360 --> 01:59:38,880
Speaker 2: a bunch of people to like, run a website with

2397
01:59:38,960 --> 01:59:42,600
Speaker 2: you right where you cover more things than one. Unfortunately,

2398
01:59:42,680 --> 01:59:45,200
Speaker 2: it turns out five thirty eight was a bad business venture.

2399
01:59:45,240 --> 01:59:48,400
Speaker 2: It got massively overvalued, a company spent a shitload more

2400
01:59:48,400 --> 01:59:50,640
Speaker 2: money on it that it was capable of making, and

2401
01:59:50,680 --> 01:59:53,720
Speaker 2: now everyone's gotten laid off and Nate left years ago

2402
01:59:53,840 --> 01:59:56,800
Speaker 2: to do his sub stack. You know, it's a tragic

2403
01:59:56,880 --> 01:59:59,960
Speaker 2: case in the problem of like hubris and the fact

2404
02:00:00,040 --> 02:00:02,920
Speaker 2: that maybe a guy who's really good at gambling shouldn't

2405
02:00:03,080 --> 02:00:07,080
Speaker 2: run an entire media enterprise. But Nate doesn't like thinking

2406
02:00:07,160 --> 02:00:08,920
Speaker 2: about that. It isn't like thinking about the fact that

2407
02:00:09,000 --> 02:00:11,839
Speaker 2: maybe the only thing Elon Musk was ever good at

2408
02:00:12,160 --> 02:00:15,200
Speaker 2: was being the guy from the Music Man, because I

2409
02:00:15,240 --> 02:00:18,280
Speaker 2: think Nate bought into Elon Musk for a significant period

2410
02:00:18,280 --> 02:00:23,200
Speaker 2: of time, right, he still clearly does. Yes, Yeah, there's

2411
02:00:23,240 --> 02:00:25,280
Speaker 2: been this thing lately where a lot of folks on

2412
02:00:25,320 --> 02:00:27,960
Speaker 2: the left have been like the Oh, you couldn't always

2413
02:00:28,000 --> 02:00:30,200
Speaker 2: tell that he was a con man, You couldn't always

2414
02:00:30,200 --> 02:00:32,320
Speaker 2: tell that he was this bad, like he was always

2415
02:00:32,320 --> 02:00:35,200
Speaker 2: the worst. I was like, no, Like back in twenty

2416
02:00:35,280 --> 02:00:38,280
Speaker 2: fourteen fifteen, when I was writing about the billionaires and

2417
02:00:38,440 --> 02:00:41,080
Speaker 2: rich people that were evil, I was focusing on Jamie

2418
02:00:41,120 --> 02:00:43,320
Speaker 2: Diamond because he had helped create the two thousand and

2419
02:00:43,360 --> 02:00:46,040
Speaker 2: eight financial collapse and he seen it. He just seemed

2420
02:00:46,080 --> 02:00:48,280
Speaker 2: obviously much worse than this guy who up to that

2421
02:00:48,360 --> 02:00:52,080
Speaker 2: point was pretty much just making cars and rockets. You know,

2422
02:00:52,400 --> 02:00:55,440
Speaker 2: you have two companies doing that. Musk was not top

2423
02:00:55,520 --> 02:00:59,200
Speaker 2: of most people's radars for very good reason, which gets

2424
02:00:59,240 --> 02:01:01,840
Speaker 2: to like, there's this thing that's been created because of

2425
02:01:01,880 --> 02:01:04,880
Speaker 2: some of like the sinister beliefs that his grandfather had

2426
02:01:05,280 --> 02:01:07,600
Speaker 2: and his like family background which has a lot of

2427
02:01:07,600 --> 02:01:10,680
Speaker 2: white supremacy in it, to that that this has been

2428
02:01:10,760 --> 02:01:13,720
Speaker 2: Elon's sort of like grand plan from the beginning, and

2429
02:01:13,720 --> 02:01:16,440
Speaker 2: that it's all come together for him, like as if

2430
02:01:16,480 --> 02:01:19,680
Speaker 2: he's he's, you know, a Marvel or a James Bond

2431
02:01:19,720 --> 02:01:22,120
Speaker 2: villain who's been executing this like thirty year plan to

2432
02:01:22,160 --> 02:01:22,920
Speaker 2: get where he is.

2433
02:01:23,240 --> 02:01:23,440
Speaker 7: Yeah.

2434
02:01:23,520 --> 02:01:24,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, I.

2435
02:01:24,440 --> 02:01:27,440
Speaker 2: Think when you look at his cognition, like he's not

2436
02:01:27,680 --> 02:01:30,160
Speaker 2: the same man he was ten years ago. He's not

2437
02:01:30,200 --> 02:01:32,720
Speaker 2: the same guy he was when he started dating Grimes.

2438
02:01:32,760 --> 02:01:34,800
Speaker 2: And I'm saying he was a good man before then.

2439
02:01:35,160 --> 02:01:39,080
Speaker 2: I don't think he particularly ever was, but he's clearly

2440
02:01:39,160 --> 02:01:42,839
Speaker 2: his brain has degraded in part due to contact through Twitter.

2441
02:01:43,240 --> 02:01:45,560
Speaker 4: And well yeah, and you can like measure this through

2442
02:01:45,680 --> 02:01:48,640
Speaker 4: his posting as well, like yeah, like that the types

2443
02:01:48,640 --> 02:01:50,920
Speaker 4: of posts he would make in twenty seventeen are like

2444
02:01:51,200 --> 02:01:54,240
Speaker 4: completely opposite to the way that that he would talk

2445
02:01:54,280 --> 02:01:56,480
Speaker 4: about certain social issues. Now, oh yeah, he's not like

2446
02:01:56,560 --> 02:01:58,760
Speaker 4: meming about like anarcho syndicalism.

2447
02:01:59,000 --> 02:02:01,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, to a few of those things. But I want

2448
02:02:01,160 --> 02:02:03,320
Speaker 2: to read another quote from Nate's article, because he's going

2449
02:02:03,360 --> 02:02:06,040
Speaker 2: to talk about his book On the Edge, which quote

2450
02:02:06,080 --> 02:02:09,280
Speaker 2: describes a certain community of intelligent people that I call

2451
02:02:09,680 --> 02:02:13,480
Speaker 2: the River. These people who occupy a range of professions

2452
02:02:13,480 --> 02:02:17,000
Speaker 2: from AI research to poker to venture capital, are bright,

2453
02:02:17,200 --> 02:02:21,160
Speaker 2: but in spikey ways. In Baron Cohen's dacotomy, they lean

2454
02:02:21,200 --> 02:02:24,520
Speaker 2: heavily towards the systematic side of the equation. They're good

2455
02:02:24,520 --> 02:02:27,680
Speaker 2: at abstract analytic reasoning, but they may lack other forms

2456
02:02:27,680 --> 02:02:31,360
Speaker 2: of intelligence like empathy, judgment, and self awareness. They also

2457
02:02:31,440 --> 02:02:35,400
Speaker 2: have some distinctive characteristics largely unrelated to intelligence. For example,

2458
02:02:35,560 --> 02:02:38,840
Speaker 2: they tend to be extraordinarily competitive and somewhat contrariant. And again,

2459
02:02:39,160 --> 02:02:41,400
Speaker 2: what you are talking about all of these people number one,

2460
02:02:41,600 --> 02:02:44,200
Speaker 2: When he says AI research, he's not talking about people

2461
02:02:44,240 --> 02:02:46,920
Speaker 2: who are doing like the gut level coding. He's talking

2462
02:02:46,920 --> 02:02:52,040
Speaker 2: about Sam Altman, right, ye, poker, venture capital. This is

2463
02:02:52,080 --> 02:02:56,280
Speaker 2: all gambling. You're all talking about gamblers. The River is

2464
02:02:56,480 --> 02:03:01,200
Speaker 2: just gamblers, Nate. It's people like you who put money

2465
02:03:01,480 --> 02:03:06,200
Speaker 2: on bets, and they are contrarian and competitive because that's

2466
02:03:06,240 --> 02:03:11,080
Speaker 2: how gamblers are. That's the intelligence, that's the river. Like

2467
02:03:11,160 --> 02:03:14,040
Speaker 2: he's thinking about it as like the specific chunk of

2468
02:03:14,120 --> 02:03:16,680
Speaker 2: intellectuals who have You know, there's some dangers, but they

2469
02:03:16,680 --> 02:03:19,600
Speaker 2: have great potential to make the world Brilliant're like, no, no, no, no,

2470
02:03:20,000 --> 02:03:22,760
Speaker 2: these are just people who like wind up shooting themselves

2471
02:03:22,760 --> 02:03:24,760
Speaker 2: outside of a sports betting facility.

2472
02:03:25,080 --> 02:03:29,320
Speaker 4: Like that's the river, mate, I have been turning into

2473
02:03:29,320 --> 02:03:32,160
Speaker 4: a monster during our friend poker nights recently.

2474
02:03:32,280 --> 02:03:34,600
Speaker 3: It's it's tough garrison.

2475
02:03:34,760 --> 02:03:36,040
Speaker 2: By the way, I've been meaning to talk to you

2476
02:03:36,040 --> 02:03:38,640
Speaker 2: about wearing the full data makeup, because you know your

2477
02:03:38,640 --> 02:03:40,880
Speaker 2: skin can't breathe. If you coat your whole body, you're

2478
02:03:40,880 --> 02:03:42,320
Speaker 2: only supposed to put that on your face.

2479
02:03:42,400 --> 02:03:45,080
Speaker 4: I don't do that every time I play. Get a

2480
02:03:45,120 --> 02:03:48,600
Speaker 4: gold finger yourself, gar, I don't put on the data

2481
02:03:48,680 --> 02:03:53,480
Speaker 4: makeup every time I play poker, just that one time. Actually, no,

2482
02:03:53,560 --> 02:03:57,880
Speaker 4: I've done that twice nowt never minds.

2483
02:03:56,440 --> 02:03:59,760
Speaker 3: Okay, okay, it's becoming I also have the little hats.

2484
02:04:00,040 --> 02:04:02,400
Speaker 4: I ordered a twelve pack of like of like the

2485
02:04:02,400 --> 02:04:04,839
Speaker 4: little like poker visors to complete the outface.

2486
02:04:04,960 --> 02:04:06,400
Speaker 2: She did, of course she did.

2487
02:04:06,520 --> 02:04:09,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, it would be rude, not too for better or worse.

2488
02:04:10,760 --> 02:04:14,200
Speaker 2: This typology the river is associated with high achievement in

2489
02:04:14,280 --> 02:04:18,040
Speaker 2: certain highly lucrative professions, especially tech and finance. It is

2490
02:04:18,080 --> 02:04:22,160
Speaker 2: also associated with high variance. Makman free built FTX into

2491
02:04:22,160 --> 02:04:24,800
Speaker 2: a company that investors valued at thirty two billion before

2492
02:04:24,800 --> 02:04:29,200
Speaker 2: the House of cards collapsed again because he was a gambler. Yeah,

2493
02:04:29,560 --> 02:04:32,000
Speaker 2: and again Nate can't just accept oh, he was never

2494
02:04:32,040 --> 02:04:34,400
Speaker 2: actually very smart. He just got really lucky for a

2495
02:04:34,440 --> 02:04:37,160
Speaker 2: while and then gave it and then gambled it all

2496
02:04:37,160 --> 02:04:39,680
Speaker 2: away because he wasn't actually as smart as anyone thought.

2497
02:04:39,880 --> 02:04:42,880
Speaker 2: Nate says, I interviewed SBF several times for the book,

2498
02:04:42,920 --> 02:04:44,640
Speaker 2: and I can tell you that he very much falls

2499
02:04:44,640 --> 02:04:49,120
Speaker 2: into the genius but dumbass category. How about just dumbassy,

2500
02:04:50,280 --> 02:04:51,240
Speaker 2: lucky dumbass.

2501
02:04:51,280 --> 02:04:52,000
Speaker 1: It's not hard.

2502
02:04:52,240 --> 02:04:55,600
Speaker 2: What's the genius? Where did he prove that?

2503
02:04:55,760 --> 02:04:58,360
Speaker 4: I mean, he proved that by fooling Nate silver a

2504
02:04:58,360 --> 02:05:01,720
Speaker 4: man who probably yeah, value his own intelligence like a

2505
02:05:01,760 --> 02:05:02,320
Speaker 4: great deal.

2506
02:05:02,400 --> 02:05:04,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's the whole thing, right, Nate Silva

2507
02:05:04,320 --> 02:05:06,800
Speaker 1: kan and like it would be ego death to admit

2508
02:05:06,840 --> 02:05:08,720
Speaker 1: that there were just some lucky, dumb white dudes.

2509
02:05:09,080 --> 02:05:09,680
Speaker 6: Yeah.

2510
02:05:09,720 --> 02:05:11,920
Speaker 2: If a guy had won like one of the lotteries,

2511
02:05:12,160 --> 02:05:14,200
Speaker 2: was like a billion and a half dollars, right, got

2512
02:05:14,240 --> 02:05:17,040
Speaker 2: crazy rich and then lost it all in two weeks

2513
02:05:17,080 --> 02:05:19,960
Speaker 2: because he just kept putting half a million dollars at

2514
02:05:19,960 --> 02:05:22,880
Speaker 2: a time on twenty one black at a roulette table

2515
02:05:22,880 --> 02:05:26,160
Speaker 2: in Vegas, and I would be like, well, obviously he's

2516
02:05:26,200 --> 02:05:29,040
Speaker 2: a genius, but he's also kind of a dumbass. How

2517
02:05:29,080 --> 02:05:31,120
Speaker 2: else could he have made the money in the first place?

2518
02:05:31,120 --> 02:05:33,080
Speaker 2: And I was like, no, he got lucky, and then

2519
02:05:33,120 --> 02:05:35,920
Speaker 2: he gambled it all away because he's he doesn't have

2520
02:05:36,000 --> 02:05:40,480
Speaker 2: good judgment. Yeah, So it's important to avoid two pitfalls

2521
02:05:40,480 --> 02:05:43,920
Speaker 2: when encountering people with spiky intelligence, namely, neither there are

2522
02:05:43,920 --> 02:05:46,400
Speaker 2: worst traits nor their best ones tell the whole story.

2523
02:05:46,760 --> 02:05:49,640
Speaker 2: And I don't disagree with that. However, it's a meaningless

2524
02:05:49,640 --> 02:05:53,560
Speaker 2: statement because that's true of every human being ever born. Yeah,

2525
02:05:53,600 --> 02:05:56,520
Speaker 2: but clearly Nate doesn't feel that way, because only I

2526
02:05:56,520 --> 02:05:59,440
Speaker 2: think the undercurrent here is that only people like this

2527
02:06:00,040 --> 02:06:03,240
Speaker 2: It's mind are worth talking about because only gamblers bring

2528
02:06:03,280 --> 02:06:04,720
Speaker 2: the world forward, right.

2529
02:06:04,680 --> 02:06:06,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, no one else to serve empathy?

2530
02:06:07,240 --> 02:06:11,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, like you're just addicted to putting money on

2531
02:06:12,040 --> 02:06:16,320
Speaker 2: sports games and elections, Nate Silver. Anyway, So here's the

2532
02:06:16,360 --> 02:06:18,520
Speaker 2: two things he wants to warn us up or wants

2533
02:06:18,560 --> 02:06:21,920
Speaker 2: people to avoid. Elon is highly intelligent, in several ways,

2534
02:06:21,960 --> 02:06:24,400
Speaker 2: but that does not mean that everything he does is brilliant.

2535
02:06:24,480 --> 02:06:27,080
Speaker 2: Some things he does are exceptionally dumb or dangerous, and

2536
02:06:27,120 --> 02:06:30,520
Speaker 2: we shouldn't make excuses for them. But likewise, it's absurd

2537
02:06:30,560 --> 02:06:33,040
Speaker 2: to suggest that Elon isn't brilliant in many respects just

2538
02:06:33,080 --> 02:06:35,440
Speaker 2: because he isn't in others. And if he has merely

2539
02:06:35,600 --> 02:06:38,600
Speaker 2: very good SAT scores, I don't care. Nobody does. It's

2540
02:06:38,600 --> 02:06:41,880
Speaker 2: not high school. Nobody cares about SSAT skills.

2541
02:06:41,920 --> 02:06:44,800
Speaker 4: Elon's what like like like fifty, like fifty five or

2542
02:06:44,840 --> 02:06:45,960
Speaker 4: something like what are we doing?

2543
02:06:46,440 --> 02:06:46,640
Speaker 5: Yeah?

2544
02:06:46,680 --> 02:06:49,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you are a middle aged man. I

2545
02:06:49,920 --> 02:06:52,000
Speaker 2: don't even know what my SAT score was.

2546
02:06:52,720 --> 02:06:55,040
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say like, I never took our SAT, but

2547
02:06:55,080 --> 02:06:57,080
Speaker 1: I spent more than a decade in full time education,

2548
02:06:57,160 --> 02:06:59,880
Speaker 1: and anyone who ever told me that SAT schools I

2549
02:07:00,080 --> 02:07:01,680
Speaker 1: immediately hated and never took them.

2550
02:07:01,680 --> 02:07:02,040
Speaker 5: Seriously.

2551
02:07:02,040 --> 02:07:05,160
Speaker 2: I've been almost twenty years asking people questions for a living,

2552
02:07:05,160 --> 02:07:07,879
Speaker 2: and I've never asked anyone there A sorry, Garrison.

2553
02:07:08,120 --> 02:07:10,400
Speaker 4: Although SAT might not be like a stable metric for

2554
02:07:10,560 --> 02:07:14,440
Speaker 4: evaluating intelligence, surely Nate has an alternative method.

2555
02:07:15,600 --> 02:07:18,920
Speaker 2: Absolutely not Garrison, just how much well he doesn't.

2556
02:07:18,720 --> 02:07:20,920
Speaker 1: He doesn't have an alternative method and seeing what you

2557
02:07:21,000 --> 02:07:24,120
Speaker 1: might quote an infographic because the next section of the

2558
02:07:24,280 --> 02:07:28,280
Speaker 1: article is a quick inventory of Elon's intelligence.

2559
02:07:28,720 --> 02:07:32,280
Speaker 2: So first he admits he tried to track Elon down

2560
02:07:32,320 --> 02:07:34,240
Speaker 2: for his stupid book, but he couldn't get him to

2561
02:07:34,280 --> 02:07:37,800
Speaker 2: talk to him. Because even I have to say, Elon

2562
02:07:37,920 --> 02:07:42,000
Speaker 2: does have better shit to do than talk to Nate Silver,

2563
02:07:42,360 --> 02:07:45,600
Speaker 2: because Elon is abusing ketamine to a near fatal degree,

2564
02:07:45,840 --> 02:07:47,680
Speaker 2: and that is a better use of his time than

2565
02:07:47,720 --> 02:07:52,160
Speaker 2: talking to Nate Silver. So since he can't actually talk

2566
02:07:52,280 --> 02:07:55,840
Speaker 2: to Musk, he's going to model and extrapolate from quote

2567
02:07:55,920 --> 02:07:59,120
Speaker 2: many other Silicon Valley big wigs I have met, okay

2568
02:07:59,360 --> 02:08:01,040
Speaker 2: helping him in the This is the fact that quote

2569
02:08:01,160 --> 02:08:04,720
Speaker 2: Musk maintains an extremely public profile. He's turned X into

2570
02:08:04,760 --> 02:08:08,000
Speaker 2: a running diary of his innermost thoughts, and in addition

2571
02:08:08,080 --> 02:08:10,760
Speaker 2: to that, the biographies of the guy one more caveat.

2572
02:08:10,800 --> 02:08:13,320
Speaker 2: Here I will try to evaluate the overall trajectory of

2573
02:08:13,440 --> 02:08:16,880
Speaker 2: Elon's career, not just his recent antics. So we go

2574
02:08:17,040 --> 02:08:20,040
Speaker 2: down here and the next segment is dimensions were Musk

2575
02:08:20,120 --> 02:08:24,160
Speaker 2: has exceptionally high or genius level intelligence. So finally Nate's

2576
02:08:24,240 --> 02:08:26,560
Speaker 2: going to prove it, and I'm gonna I'm going to

2577
02:08:26,600 --> 02:08:29,520
Speaker 2: show you guys, how he how he chooses to do that,

2578
02:08:30,120 --> 02:08:32,320
Speaker 2: what the evidence he gives us here is, and I

2579
02:08:32,440 --> 02:08:32,920
Speaker 2: think this is.

2580
02:08:32,960 --> 02:08:36,480
Speaker 4: Something that we should reveal to the audience after these ads.

2581
02:08:36,680 --> 02:08:49,280
Speaker 2: Good point here, all right, we're back. So let's look

2582
02:08:49,280 --> 02:08:52,040
Speaker 2: at what Nate shows as is the chief dimension where

2583
02:08:52,160 --> 02:08:56,560
Speaker 2: Musk has shown high or genius level intelligence. I'm just

2584
02:08:56,680 --> 02:09:00,640
Speaker 2: reading that first line, man, So the first words under

2585
02:09:00,640 --> 02:09:03,920
Speaker 2: this are cognitive load capacity in overall horsepower slash ram.

2586
02:09:04,040 --> 02:09:07,080
Speaker 2: He's always on, I mean literally look at how often

2587
02:09:07,160 --> 02:09:10,760
Speaker 2: he's tweeting, and then a huge graph that shows the

2588
02:09:10,960 --> 02:09:14,400
Speaker 2: density of tweets posted and win which has been used

2589
02:09:14,400 --> 02:09:17,120
Speaker 2: by other people to prove that since sometime in late

2590
02:09:17,200 --> 02:09:19,680
Speaker 2: twenty twenty two, he's almost never gotten more than about

2591
02:09:19,720 --> 02:09:23,720
Speaker 2: three hours without posting a tweet, Like it's just a

2592
02:09:23,960 --> 02:09:27,080
Speaker 2: solid red after he buys the site. This like graph

2593
02:09:27,160 --> 02:09:30,160
Speaker 2: of like when he makes his post, he's never offline.

2594
02:09:30,240 --> 02:09:31,400
Speaker 2: Now he's not sleeping.

2595
02:09:31,880 --> 02:09:34,000
Speaker 4: So this is a graph of Elon Musk's tweets from

2596
02:09:34,000 --> 02:09:37,920
Speaker 4: twenty fourteen to twenty twenty four showing the time of

2597
02:09:38,160 --> 02:09:41,160
Speaker 4: day and when a post is posted, represented by small

2598
02:09:41,240 --> 02:09:45,320
Speaker 4: red dots and yes, at around twenty twenty two, the

2599
02:09:45,480 --> 02:09:49,640
Speaker 4: thickness of the red increases dramatically. It's almost just a

2600
02:09:49,680 --> 02:09:52,160
Speaker 4: straight red like the period of where he must be

2601
02:09:52,280 --> 02:09:55,920
Speaker 4: sleeping in this, Yeah, is very concerning.

2602
02:09:56,240 --> 02:09:59,840
Speaker 2: No, he sometimes sleeps from about six to nine a

2603
02:10:00,680 --> 02:10:04,440
Speaker 2: as far as we can tell, but not regularly or often.

2604
02:10:04,560 --> 02:10:06,320
Speaker 1: It's like a streak at twenty twenty three where he

2605
02:10:06,440 --> 02:10:08,400
Speaker 1: just isn't sleepy, he's not sleeping.

2606
02:10:08,520 --> 02:10:14,000
Speaker 2: And again he's on drugs. People. I think they're probably prescripted.

2607
02:10:14,000 --> 02:10:16,880
Speaker 2: I think I'm certain he's on ketamine that has been prescribed.

2608
02:10:16,960 --> 02:10:19,080
Speaker 2: When you're this rich, you just get whatever drugs you

2609
02:10:19,160 --> 02:10:21,120
Speaker 2: want to do recreationally prescribed.

2610
02:10:21,320 --> 02:10:21,480
Speaker 6: Right.

2611
02:10:22,080 --> 02:10:25,920
Speaker 2: But this is drug user behavior. I don't say that

2612
02:10:26,320 --> 02:10:29,440
Speaker 2: to judge drug users. I say that as someone who

2613
02:10:29,520 --> 02:10:33,680
Speaker 2: had a drug problem, like this is drug user behavior.

2614
02:10:33,880 --> 02:10:38,080
Speaker 2: And specifically Silver he's using the sobriety as possible. Sorry,

2615
02:10:38,200 --> 02:10:40,760
Speaker 2: and specifically Silver is using this as an evidence of

2616
02:10:40,880 --> 02:10:43,320
Speaker 2: MUCKs intelligence. Yeah, it's not.

2617
02:10:43,520 --> 02:10:47,040
Speaker 4: He's scaling his Twitter activity as a sign that he

2618
02:10:47,160 --> 02:10:49,000
Speaker 4: must be like a special type of person.

2619
02:10:49,920 --> 02:10:55,120
Speaker 2: He's railing adderall and eating ketamine lozenges all day, every day.

2620
02:10:55,280 --> 02:10:57,040
Speaker 2: That's what this is a sign of, and no one

2621
02:10:57,120 --> 02:11:00,560
Speaker 2: is allowed to take his phone away anyway. Here's how

2622
02:11:00,680 --> 02:11:03,800
Speaker 2: Nate explains why this is smart. In NBA term, we

2623
02:11:04,000 --> 02:11:06,920
Speaker 2: say this as a player with an exceptionally high motor,

2624
02:11:07,360 --> 02:11:10,000
Speaker 2: and this is undoubtedly a valuable trait as the world

2625
02:11:10,080 --> 02:11:13,440
Speaker 2: becomes more complex. Lack's fall. I was simultaneously doing an

2626
02:11:13,480 --> 02:11:16,400
Speaker 2: extensive book media tour, running the election model, trying to

2627
02:11:16,400 --> 02:11:19,640
Speaker 2: build up Silver bulletin, plus some intensive consulting work. Even

2628
02:11:19,680 --> 02:11:21,640
Speaker 2: if I mostly kept my wits about me, it was

2629
02:11:21,680 --> 02:11:24,080
Speaker 2: an incredible amount of mental and physical strain that would

2630
02:11:24,080 --> 02:11:26,920
Speaker 2: only have been sustainable for a short burst. But Elon

2631
02:11:27,080 --> 02:11:29,520
Speaker 2: is taking on I don't know, approximately a thousand times

2632
02:11:29,560 --> 02:11:31,680
Speaker 2: more stress than that, and has done so for years. No,

2633
02:11:31,800 --> 02:11:36,480
Speaker 2: he's not. He just tweets he has a massive number one.

2634
02:11:36,840 --> 02:11:39,600
Speaker 2: All of the businesses are being run by people who

2635
02:11:39,680 --> 02:11:42,640
Speaker 2: are specialists in those businesses. He gets called on to

2636
02:11:42,720 --> 02:11:44,920
Speaker 2: sit in meetings and say yes or no, toe stuff

2637
02:11:44,920 --> 02:11:49,280
Speaker 2: and occasionally tells him to do something crazy that causes issues. Right,

2638
02:11:49,760 --> 02:11:53,680
Speaker 2: and they're not running smoothly. Tesla's lost more value now

2639
02:11:53,840 --> 02:11:57,520
Speaker 2: than it gained after the election, and SpaceX just had

2640
02:11:57,520 --> 02:12:01,760
Speaker 2: a giant rocket explode again. The boring company has not

2641
02:12:02,480 --> 02:12:05,600
Speaker 2: done anything other than make a useless hole underneath Vegas,

2642
02:12:05,680 --> 02:12:08,720
Speaker 2: and the hyper loop is nothing right like this. This

2643
02:12:09,640 --> 02:12:14,760
Speaker 2: is just full of shit, Nate. Like what you have

2644
02:12:14,960 --> 02:12:18,400
Speaker 2: just described, running an election model that's functional, going on

2645
02:12:18,520 --> 02:12:22,000
Speaker 2: a book tour and consulting and writing a newsletter is

2646
02:12:22,120 --> 02:12:24,840
Speaker 2: more work than I credit Elon Musk with actually doing.

2647
02:12:24,880 --> 02:12:26,760
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, more actual effort work.

2648
02:12:27,040 --> 02:12:29,920
Speaker 4: Risk is mostly like sitting in an occasional meeting doing

2649
02:12:30,040 --> 02:12:32,960
Speaker 4: drugs and injecting random women with his sperm yes and

2650
02:12:33,120 --> 02:12:33,839
Speaker 4: sending tweets.

2651
02:12:33,960 --> 02:12:35,160
Speaker 1: He doesn't do the injecting.

2652
02:12:35,240 --> 02:12:40,480
Speaker 2: I think, oh, god, Garrison, that comes up to no no, oh,

2653
02:12:40,840 --> 02:12:43,960
Speaker 2: and it's crazy how it does. Right before he posts

2654
02:12:44,000 --> 02:12:45,760
Speaker 2: the graph of how much Elon tweets.

2655
02:12:46,000 --> 02:12:49,120
Speaker 1: Okay, good there it is, okay, okay.

2656
02:12:49,440 --> 02:12:52,160
Speaker 2: Politics and social media poison a lot of people's brains.

2657
02:12:52,280 --> 02:12:55,040
Speaker 2: Having that much wealth and power has to be intoxicating,

2658
02:12:55,200 --> 02:12:58,680
Speaker 2: especially if Muska ostracizes people who might keep him grounded

2659
02:12:58,920 --> 02:13:02,240
Speaker 2: more sympathetically. He's taking on an incredible array of responsibilities,

2660
02:13:02,480 --> 02:13:05,040
Speaker 2: doing several really hard jobs at once, each of which

2661
02:13:05,080 --> 02:13:07,120
Speaker 2: would be stressful on their own, while still managing to

2662
02:13:07,240 --> 02:13:11,200
Speaker 2: father thirteen children. I'm tweeting hundreds of times per week. Again,

2663
02:13:11,520 --> 02:13:16,200
Speaker 2: equivalent efforts tweeting hundreds of times a week and fathering

2664
02:13:16,320 --> 02:13:19,800
Speaker 2: thirteen children. He's not a father to them, No, he

2665
02:13:19,960 --> 02:13:22,280
Speaker 2: just he contributed by it.

2666
02:13:22,440 --> 02:13:23,720
Speaker 7: He didn't even have sex y.

2667
02:13:24,280 --> 02:13:27,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's neually the lowest possible effort way to have

2668
02:13:27,360 --> 02:13:27,800
Speaker 1: a child.

2669
02:13:28,800 --> 02:13:31,920
Speaker 2: Wait, Like, I'm gonna guess most of the people with

2670
02:13:32,040 --> 02:13:35,680
Speaker 2: penises listening to this come like, that's not a big effort.

2671
02:13:35,880 --> 02:13:37,640
Speaker 2: You wouldn't include that. It's like, what did I get

2672
02:13:37,680 --> 02:13:40,720
Speaker 2: done this week? Well, in addition to working forty hours,

2673
02:13:40,760 --> 02:13:41,480
Speaker 2: I jacked off.

2674
02:13:41,560 --> 02:13:43,160
Speaker 3: That's a little transphobic.

2675
02:13:45,400 --> 02:13:47,680
Speaker 7: This is a joke.

2676
02:13:47,680 --> 02:13:48,960
Speaker 4: Anyway, continue it said.

2677
02:13:50,240 --> 02:13:53,240
Speaker 2: I'm just saying it doesn't count as work, you know,

2678
02:13:53,480 --> 02:13:57,160
Speaker 2: yeah from us, unless you're a sex worker, than it does. Okay,

2679
02:13:57,520 --> 02:13:59,640
Speaker 2: Like especially I know a lot of male porn stars.

2680
02:14:01,120 --> 02:14:03,080
Speaker 2: That's that is a difficult part of the job. That's

2681
02:14:03,120 --> 02:14:06,120
Speaker 2: why they inject their penises directly with erection drugs that

2682
02:14:06,240 --> 02:14:06,920
Speaker 2: kill their hearts.

2683
02:14:07,560 --> 02:14:10,200
Speaker 4: I would like to get into more of Silver's like

2684
02:14:10,760 --> 02:14:15,680
Speaker 4: justification for why why he associates this this high tweet

2685
02:14:15,720 --> 02:14:17,120
Speaker 4: load with like intelligence.

2686
02:14:18,040 --> 02:14:22,120
Speaker 2: Well, because it shows rapid cognition in thin slicing ability.

2687
02:14:22,280 --> 02:14:26,280
Speaker 1: Okay, hmm right, yeah, sure sure.

2688
02:14:26,520 --> 02:14:29,640
Speaker 2: Indeed, in a capitalist system with a significant premium, I'm

2689
02:14:29,680 --> 02:14:32,400
Speaker 2: being first to market. Making decent judgments fast is often

2690
02:14:32,440 --> 02:14:36,560
Speaker 2: more important than making better judgments slowly. Canonically, vcs imagine

2691
02:14:36,600 --> 02:14:40,280
Speaker 2: themselves rapidly filtering through potential founders, as though on Shark Tank,

2692
02:14:40,640 --> 02:14:43,600
Speaker 2: relying on well known gut instinct. But this also gets

2693
02:14:43,640 --> 02:14:45,560
Speaker 2: people in trouble, as it has for Elon. What is

2694
02:14:45,640 --> 02:14:51,520
Speaker 2: shark Tank's success rate? Yeah, I bet there's a quick

2695
02:14:51,600 --> 02:14:54,400
Speaker 2: answer to that. Yeah, and that's consinuering.

2696
02:14:54,440 --> 02:14:57,720
Speaker 1: The air has built in free television advertising for any

2697
02:14:57,800 --> 02:14:58,400
Speaker 1: product means.

2698
02:14:58,560 --> 02:15:04,400
Speaker 2: It's than fifty percent of the they're successfully closed. God, yeah,

2699
02:15:04,640 --> 02:15:09,240
Speaker 2: so I died out. All this tweeting also shows abstract

2700
02:15:09,320 --> 02:15:13,400
Speaker 2: problem solving capability. This is related to the idea of creativity,

2701
02:15:13,800 --> 02:15:16,960
Speaker 2: though in Musk's case it seemingly doesn't manifest itself an

2702
02:15:17,040 --> 02:15:19,320
Speaker 2: artistic prowesslyevingly.

2703
02:15:19,560 --> 02:15:21,640
Speaker 4: You know what, I'll give it to day. There, I'll

2704
02:15:21,680 --> 02:15:22,240
Speaker 4: give it today.

2705
02:15:23,280 --> 02:15:25,680
Speaker 2: I don't disagree with you there. And then, of course,

2706
02:15:25,920 --> 02:15:29,880
Speaker 2: instrumental rationality philosophy nerds like to distinguish between two types

2707
02:15:29,920 --> 02:15:34,120
Speaker 2: of rationality. Instrumental rationality is aligning means with ens, basically

2708
02:15:34,200 --> 02:15:36,480
Speaker 2: figuring out the most efficient ways to get what you want.

2709
02:15:36,880 --> 02:15:38,600
Speaker 2: For this category, I think you have to point towards

2710
02:15:38,640 --> 02:15:41,840
Speaker 2: the scoreboard, must have some unparalleled accomplishments, and isn't about

2711
02:15:41,880 --> 02:15:44,360
Speaker 2: to let anybody stand in his way. It's also a

2712
02:15:44,440 --> 02:15:47,839
Speaker 2: category often associated with manipulativeness or even being an asshole,

2713
02:15:47,960 --> 02:15:49,200
Speaker 2: not one for nice guys.

2714
02:15:49,760 --> 02:15:49,880
Speaker 10: Now.

2715
02:15:49,960 --> 02:15:52,920
Speaker 2: And again, if Musk's actual goal is his stated goal

2716
02:15:53,000 --> 02:15:57,600
Speaker 2: getting to Mars, then backing the political party that is

2717
02:15:57,840 --> 02:16:01,000
Speaker 2: actively doing as much damage to the bio fear as possible,

2718
02:16:01,120 --> 02:16:04,160
Speaker 2: ensuring that it will not have the carrying capacity necessary

2719
02:16:04,200 --> 02:16:08,040
Speaker 2: to make any kind of off world civilization likely, I

2720
02:16:08,120 --> 02:16:11,320
Speaker 2: would argue is a stupid decision. But he doesn't actually

2721
02:16:11,400 --> 02:16:13,920
Speaker 2: want us to get to Mars, right, He just wants

2722
02:16:14,000 --> 02:16:15,320
Speaker 2: to be in charge of everything.

2723
02:16:15,640 --> 02:16:18,280
Speaker 4: No, he wants to run his businesses with no government interference.

2724
02:16:18,360 --> 02:16:19,320
Speaker 4: That's that's really it, yesh.

2725
02:16:19,360 --> 02:16:22,480
Speaker 2: It is yes, yes, yes, and he has been very

2726
02:16:22,560 --> 02:16:26,840
Speaker 2: successful at that. But again it's the successive brute force.

2727
02:16:27,000 --> 02:16:29,080
Speaker 2: It's the same way as like if you hire a

2728
02:16:29,160 --> 02:16:31,480
Speaker 2: thousand people who are willing to like break the kneecaps

2729
02:16:31,520 --> 02:16:33,920
Speaker 2: of a guy who annoys you. Like you could say, like,

2730
02:16:34,160 --> 02:16:36,320
Speaker 2: I'm very smart when it comes to hurting people who

2731
02:16:36,360 --> 02:16:38,080
Speaker 2: annoy me. But really, you just have a lot of

2732
02:16:38,200 --> 02:16:40,840
Speaker 2: dudes who can beat people up for you. Like is

2733
02:16:40,920 --> 02:16:43,160
Speaker 2: that intelligence? Or did you just have enough money to

2734
02:16:43,280 --> 02:16:44,039
Speaker 2: hire thugs?

2735
02:16:44,120 --> 02:16:45,240
Speaker 3: Or are you just a mob boss?

2736
02:16:45,560 --> 02:16:49,119
Speaker 2: Right? Are you just a mob boss? And a mob boss?

2737
02:16:49,240 --> 02:16:51,320
Speaker 2: No one is allowed to attack because it's going to

2738
02:16:51,360 --> 02:16:54,440
Speaker 2: be domestic terror to fuck up a Tesla store soon,

2739
02:16:54,600 --> 02:16:57,600
Speaker 2: you know. Anyway, we need ghost dog.

2740
02:16:57,920 --> 02:16:59,879
Speaker 4: It's pretty it's pretty upsetting because you know, a few

2741
02:17:00,000 --> 02:17:01,400
Speaker 4: weeks ago, I was having a little bit of a

2742
02:17:01,680 --> 02:17:04,959
Speaker 4: resist Live moment and I actually ashed my clothes cigarette

2743
02:17:05,440 --> 02:17:08,920
Speaker 4: on a parked Tesla. Felt pretty cool about it. But

2744
02:17:09,080 --> 02:17:11,960
Speaker 4: now I guess I can't even do that. It's too dangerous.

2745
02:17:12,000 --> 02:17:13,080
Speaker 2: Now, No, you can't.

2746
02:17:13,160 --> 02:17:14,840
Speaker 4: I could face substantial charges.

2747
02:17:15,360 --> 02:17:17,880
Speaker 1: You might want to text resist to a certain five

2748
02:17:17,959 --> 02:17:20,160
Speaker 1: digit number or something. That's probably the best way to

2749
02:17:20,200 --> 02:17:21,120
Speaker 1: solve this garrison.

2750
02:17:21,480 --> 02:17:23,800
Speaker 2: I just text resist to every single person in my

2751
02:17:23,920 --> 02:17:27,080
Speaker 2: phone book every day. I mean, it takes about seven hours.

2752
02:17:27,240 --> 02:17:28,920
Speaker 2: I have fallen behind on work.

2753
02:17:29,879 --> 02:17:31,880
Speaker 1: You know, it's the only thing we can do to

2754
02:17:31,959 --> 02:17:32,959
Speaker 1: five FasTIS.

2755
02:17:33,240 --> 02:17:36,680
Speaker 4: The quickest path to intelligence is having a horrible sleep

2756
02:17:36,760 --> 02:17:40,600
Speaker 4: deprivation and drug problem apparently, or at least that is

2757
02:17:40,680 --> 02:17:42,680
Speaker 4: how you show for it. It's funny because I saw

2758
02:17:43,440 --> 02:17:47,560
Speaker 4: Brian Johnson, the billionaire who's eating his son's blood or

2759
02:17:47,680 --> 02:17:49,920
Speaker 4: now plasma. Oh we had a dead guy posted his

2760
02:17:50,000 --> 02:17:53,400
Speaker 4: only self study on like the damaging effects of sleep deprivation,

2761
02:17:53,680 --> 02:17:56,160
Speaker 4: and I'm pretty sure Musklake retweeted it with like with

2762
02:17:56,320 --> 02:18:00,280
Speaker 4: like an emoti or something like, yeah, dude, You're brain

2763
02:18:00,400 --> 02:18:02,400
Speaker 4: is completely sure.

2764
02:18:02,680 --> 02:18:05,120
Speaker 2: Now you you are you are fried. You are the

2765
02:18:05,200 --> 02:18:06,760
Speaker 2: most cooked a ban has ever been.

2766
02:18:06,959 --> 02:18:10,280
Speaker 1: It's an interesting study, like there there is legitimately interesting

2767
02:18:10,360 --> 02:18:12,039
Speaker 1: things to look at Elo Musk's brain.

2768
02:18:12,440 --> 02:18:15,440
Speaker 2: Well yes, and there's a lot of actual scientific data

2769
02:18:15,560 --> 02:18:20,120
Speaker 2: put together like exhaustively by researchers studying how not just

2770
02:18:20,200 --> 02:18:24,040
Speaker 2: sleep deprivation but like wealth and power impact the brain.

2771
02:18:24,640 --> 02:18:26,920
Speaker 2: And like all of it makes a strong case that

2772
02:18:27,080 --> 02:18:29,960
Speaker 2: Elon Musk at this point has done more damage to

2773
02:18:30,040 --> 02:18:32,480
Speaker 2: his brain than like a career one of those career

2774
02:18:32,680 --> 02:18:35,480
Speaker 2: WWE wrestlers who like kills their whole family and then

2775
02:18:35,520 --> 02:18:37,920
Speaker 2: shoots themselves in the chest so someone can study their

2776
02:18:37,959 --> 02:18:38,480
Speaker 2: brain later.

2777
02:18:39,080 --> 02:18:44,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, well before before we close, I do

2778
02:18:44,320 --> 02:18:47,600
Speaker 4: want to say before any psychologists or sociologists or like

2779
02:18:48,879 --> 02:18:51,160
Speaker 4: linguists get mad at me. Yes, I know boba and

2780
02:18:51,240 --> 02:18:56,840
Speaker 4: kiki is is is? This is a shape language like

2781
02:18:57,320 --> 02:19:01,880
Speaker 4: correlation test I myself as well as Nate here, I

2782
02:19:01,920 --> 02:19:04,040
Speaker 4: have kind of expanded it's it's it's usage to like

2783
02:19:04,400 --> 02:19:08,200
Speaker 4: projecting even more like human or like like emotional qualities

2784
02:19:08,280 --> 02:19:11,119
Speaker 4: onto these shapes or onto these specific words. So please,

2785
02:19:11,320 --> 02:19:14,000
Speaker 4: sociologists leave me alone, do not do not do that

2786
02:19:14,120 --> 02:19:15,920
Speaker 4: message me like.

2787
02:19:16,959 --> 02:19:22,240
Speaker 1: Your favorite French don't call.

2788
02:19:23,200 --> 02:19:25,680
Speaker 4: I'm afraid it's already too late. I think I already

2789
02:19:25,720 --> 02:19:29,560
Speaker 4: hear like twelve different reddators typing. But yes, I think

2790
02:19:29,640 --> 02:19:32,200
Speaker 4: Nate's just using that image there as like a metaphor

2791
02:19:32,360 --> 02:19:38,160
Speaker 4: to like show how, you know, aggressive or manipulative Musk's

2792
02:19:38,200 --> 02:19:42,560
Speaker 4: own intelligences as symbolized by by a kiki as opposed

2793
02:19:42,600 --> 02:19:44,840
Speaker 4: to you know, maybe like maybe like a Bill Gates,

2794
02:19:44,879 --> 02:19:47,800
Speaker 4: which might be more of like a boba intelligence type. Okay,

2795
02:19:47,959 --> 02:19:50,720
Speaker 4: a little softer, a little bit more philanthropy.

2796
02:19:50,879 --> 02:19:54,800
Speaker 2: You know, I just got finished reading nothing but rationalist

2797
02:19:54,920 --> 02:19:59,039
Speaker 2: and zizion literature for two straight weeks, about a quarter

2798
02:19:59,120 --> 02:20:01,760
Speaker 2: of a million words by my last count. Garrison I

2799
02:20:01,800 --> 02:20:04,000
Speaker 2: don't have an enemy to do this again. I'm going

2800
02:20:04,080 --> 02:20:06,480
Speaker 2: to get back to my Hitler books, you know, where

2801
02:20:06,520 --> 02:20:09,960
Speaker 2: things make sense, where the world's safe.

2802
02:20:12,040 --> 02:20:15,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm returning to writing about the Syrian Civil War,

2803
02:20:15,520 --> 02:20:18,160
Speaker 1: which is my comparative happy place.

2804
02:20:18,440 --> 02:20:20,080
Speaker 2: Ah, the Syrian Civil War.

2805
02:20:21,720 --> 02:20:25,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a really great world. I do wonder if

2806
02:20:25,400 --> 02:20:28,280
Speaker 1: he's trying to avoid some kind of intellectual property thing

2807
02:20:28,480 --> 02:20:30,760
Speaker 1: by using that little filter that he used over the

2808
02:20:30,760 --> 02:20:31,520
Speaker 1: boom BERANKI no.

2809
02:20:31,600 --> 02:20:34,280
Speaker 2: Because it would be if it's actually not fair use

2810
02:20:34,440 --> 02:20:36,920
Speaker 2: now as opposed to if he just mentioned that thing.

2811
02:20:37,600 --> 02:20:39,320
Speaker 1: He doesn't, Yeah, because he doesn't talk about them.

2812
02:20:39,320 --> 02:20:41,440
Speaker 2: Then it is fair use, right, and he could use

2813
02:20:41,520 --> 02:20:43,960
Speaker 2: like a little clip of it is and illustrate the point.

2814
02:20:44,040 --> 02:20:45,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, like I did with Manu Chow.

2815
02:20:46,080 --> 02:20:48,800
Speaker 2: Anyway, this is all I want to say again about

2816
02:20:48,840 --> 02:20:51,320
Speaker 2: Nate silver until twenty twenty eight. And if you know

2817
02:20:51,400 --> 02:20:54,360
Speaker 2: what the upside if democracy really does die is, we'll

2818
02:20:54,480 --> 02:20:56,240
Speaker 2: never have to talk about him again.

2819
02:20:58,280 --> 02:21:02,000
Speaker 4: If Trumpet must really take over fully into a full coup,

2820
02:21:02,200 --> 02:21:03,840
Speaker 4: we never have to talk about Nate Silvan.

2821
02:21:03,959 --> 02:21:07,160
Speaker 2: Nine minutes from now, I'm wearing a Curtis Yarvin T shirt.

2822
02:21:09,320 --> 02:21:10,039
Speaker 2: They'll be doing a.

2823
02:21:10,160 --> 02:21:13,440
Speaker 1: Sod numbers and he will still be analyzing that data.

2824
02:21:13,800 --> 02:21:16,400
Speaker 1: They straight regime capture of Nate SILVERA.

2825
02:21:16,600 --> 02:21:18,879
Speaker 2: Well, it doesn't seem possible that Trump could have gotten

2826
02:21:18,920 --> 02:21:20,560
Speaker 2: one hundred and four percent of the vote.

2827
02:21:20,640 --> 02:21:22,279
Speaker 1: But there's a spiky percentages.

2828
02:21:22,879 --> 02:21:24,439
Speaker 2: There's a spikey percentages.

2829
02:21:25,600 --> 02:21:28,320
Speaker 4: Why can't Nate Silver just like run like Trump's casino

2830
02:21:28,480 --> 02:21:31,440
Speaker 4: or something? Right, this is just like just like put

2831
02:21:31,520 --> 02:21:31,920
Speaker 4: him away.

2832
02:21:32,720 --> 02:21:35,920
Speaker 2: I understand if Nate because Nate's rich, he doesn't need

2833
02:21:36,080 --> 02:21:38,080
Speaker 2: to do the other stuff. And if he was like

2834
02:21:38,440 --> 02:21:41,039
Speaker 2: just doing sports betting analysis forever, I'd be like, well,

2835
02:21:41,320 --> 02:21:42,000
Speaker 2: that's what he loves.

2836
02:21:42,160 --> 02:21:42,280
Speaker 4: Right.

2837
02:21:42,640 --> 02:21:45,000
Speaker 2: If I had Nate's Silver money, I'd probably just write

2838
02:21:45,040 --> 02:21:47,120
Speaker 2: novels for the rest of my life because that's what

2839
02:21:47,240 --> 02:21:50,040
Speaker 2: I like to do. I don't understand why he keeps

2840
02:21:50,080 --> 02:21:52,640
Speaker 2: writing about politics. He's not good at it, and he

2841
02:21:52,760 --> 02:21:55,080
Speaker 2: can't like it. He needs to feel special.

2842
02:21:55,160 --> 02:21:58,160
Speaker 1: He wants to feel like a special boy who knows

2843
02:21:58,200 --> 02:21:59,640
Speaker 1: the answers that no one else does.

2844
02:22:00,400 --> 02:22:03,280
Speaker 2: All right, Well, anyway, this is us making fun of

2845
02:22:03,400 --> 02:22:05,520
Speaker 2: Nate Silver, so you don't Well, you can still make

2846
02:22:05,560 --> 02:22:06,960
Speaker 2: fun of him, but you don't have to read him.

2847
02:22:07,040 --> 02:22:08,480
Speaker 2: We did that for you. Good night.

2848
02:22:31,360 --> 02:22:35,039
Speaker 4: This is It could happen here Executive Disorder, our weekly

2849
02:22:35,120 --> 02:22:38,279
Speaker 4: newscast covering what's happening in the White House, the crumbling

2850
02:22:38,480 --> 02:22:41,200
Speaker 4: of the world, and what it means for you. I'm

2851
02:22:41,240 --> 02:22:44,520
Speaker 4: Garrison Davis today I'm joined by Mia Wong and Robert Evans.

2852
02:22:45,200 --> 02:22:49,000
Speaker 4: This episode recovering the week of March five to March twelve.

2853
02:22:49,760 --> 02:22:53,160
Speaker 4: Trump films a Tesla commercial, RFK Junior eats beef tallow

2854
02:22:53,200 --> 02:22:56,160
Speaker 4: French fries at Steak and Shake, and Sam Sedter commits

2855
02:22:56,200 --> 02:22:59,960
Speaker 4: a mass casualty event on YouTube. How's everyone doing today?

2856
02:23:00,000 --> 02:23:02,880
Speaker 2: I'm very happy to join you for ED this week.

2857
02:23:03,200 --> 02:23:06,760
Speaker 2: Huge fan of ED, just like just big big ED guy,

2858
02:23:07,000 --> 02:23:09,040
Speaker 2: So yeah, psyched to be here. I feel like we

2859
02:23:09,080 --> 02:23:09,960
Speaker 2: should mention up top.

2860
02:23:10,000 --> 02:23:12,640
Speaker 3: There's also a bunch of unhinged tariff news and the

2861
02:23:12,840 --> 02:23:17,000
Speaker 3: most like electing fucking Caliguli's horse to the Senate thing

2862
02:23:17,040 --> 02:23:19,400
Speaker 3: I've seen in a long time, So stay tuned for that.

2863
02:23:19,760 --> 02:23:20,640
Speaker 2: Lots of good stuff.

2864
02:23:21,160 --> 02:23:22,440
Speaker 3: Yes, we will get to it.

2865
02:23:22,920 --> 02:23:24,320
Speaker 4: First, I would like to give a little bit of

2866
02:23:24,360 --> 02:23:27,360
Speaker 4: an update on a story that we talked about a

2867
02:23:27,400 --> 02:23:32,160
Speaker 4: few days ago, the detention and the revocation of a

2868
02:23:32,200 --> 02:23:37,600
Speaker 4: green card for a Palestinian activist Mamood Khalil. As of Wednesday,

2869
02:23:38,240 --> 02:23:42,279
Speaker 4: his lawyers have still been unable to even contact their client.

2870
02:23:42,959 --> 02:23:46,000
Speaker 4: There was a large rally outside the First Court conference

2871
02:23:46,160 --> 02:23:49,320
Speaker 4: in New York this Wednesday. So we talked about this

2872
02:23:49,560 --> 02:23:52,360
Speaker 4: a few days ago for some background, an episode with

2873
02:23:52,600 --> 02:23:55,960
Speaker 4: James Robert and myself. Robert, do you want to like

2874
02:23:56,040 --> 02:23:59,320
Speaker 4: briefly summarize the situation, and then I'll play a clip

2875
02:23:59,440 --> 02:24:00,800
Speaker 4: from one of his lawyers.

2876
02:24:01,200 --> 02:24:05,279
Speaker 2: The situation is that this guy got taken into custody.

2877
02:24:05,920 --> 02:24:08,800
Speaker 2: My understanding is it was at an apartment that he

2878
02:24:08,879 --> 02:24:11,160
Speaker 2: lived in with his wife. He was a US citizen.

2879
02:24:11,959 --> 02:24:14,560
Speaker 2: He became aware, it looks like at least about twenty

2880
02:24:14,640 --> 02:24:17,320
Speaker 2: four hours before probably became aware that he was being

2881
02:24:17,720 --> 02:24:19,040
Speaker 2: It's a little clear if he was just like being

2882
02:24:19,120 --> 02:24:21,040
Speaker 2: surveilled or there was something else that tipped them off.

2883
02:24:21,080 --> 02:24:23,960
Speaker 2: But he contacted the school asking for help, convinced that

2884
02:24:24,160 --> 02:24:26,760
Speaker 2: Ice was coming for him about a day before they

2885
02:24:26,879 --> 02:24:31,040
Speaker 2: did when they entered the house. My understanding is based

2886
02:24:31,080 --> 02:24:34,240
Speaker 2: on the claims being made by his wife that they

2887
02:24:34,400 --> 02:24:37,120
Speaker 2: did not like, they didn't like produce a warrant or anything.

2888
02:24:37,240 --> 02:24:38,680
Speaker 4: He's still not charged with any crime.

2889
02:24:38,840 --> 02:24:40,680
Speaker 2: No, he's not been charged with any crime. They just

2890
02:24:40,840 --> 02:24:43,240
Speaker 2: took him and turned off the phone when they were

2891
02:24:43,320 --> 02:24:46,520
Speaker 2: on the phone to their lawyers, if I'm remembering correctly. Correct,

2892
02:24:46,640 --> 02:24:48,480
Speaker 2: So it's like none of this is the way this

2893
02:24:48,640 --> 02:24:51,840
Speaker 2: should have gone, Like if this was an arrest, no.

2894
02:24:52,000 --> 02:24:54,320
Speaker 4: He was just like black bagged from campus.

2895
02:24:55,000 --> 02:24:57,200
Speaker 2: But it's not an arrest again, and they've been very

2896
02:24:57,280 --> 02:25:00,200
Speaker 2: clear about this that, like they have specifically stated not

2897
02:25:00,280 --> 02:25:03,400
Speaker 2: accusing him of like breaking the law, right, Like, that's

2898
02:25:03,800 --> 02:25:04,560
Speaker 2: not what's going on.

2899
02:25:04,720 --> 02:25:07,000
Speaker 4: Here, correct, And we will get to some of that later.

2900
02:25:07,200 --> 02:25:08,800
Speaker 4: I'm going to play a clip from a press conference

2901
02:25:08,879 --> 02:25:12,840
Speaker 4: outside court that happened on Wednesday, March twelfth.

2902
02:25:13,120 --> 02:25:16,800
Speaker 11: This is one of his lawyers, Mister Khalil's detention has

2903
02:25:16,879 --> 02:25:18,600
Speaker 11: nothing to do with security.

2904
02:25:19,240 --> 02:25:21,560
Speaker 5: It is only about repression.

2905
02:25:23,360 --> 02:25:26,600
Speaker 11: The United States government has taken the position that it

2906
02:25:26,680 --> 02:25:31,400
Speaker 11: can arrest, detain, and seek to deport a lawful, permanent

2907
02:25:31,520 --> 02:25:39,280
Speaker 11: resident exclusively because of his peaceful, constitutionally protected activism, in

2908
02:25:39,400 --> 02:25:43,920
Speaker 11: this case, activism in support of Palestinian human rights and

2909
02:25:44,120 --> 02:25:49,600
Speaker 11: an end to the genocide in Gaza. The government takes

2910
02:25:49,640 --> 02:25:53,920
Speaker 11: the position that because the Secretary of State finds his

2911
02:25:54,520 --> 02:26:04,160
Speaker 11: descent unacceptable, contrary to US foreign policy, he can be deported.

2912
02:26:04,800 --> 02:26:11,519
Speaker 11: As Romsey suggested, it's largely unprecedented save for ugly historical precedents,

2913
02:26:12,160 --> 02:26:14,920
Speaker 11: including the Red Scare and McCarthyism.

2914
02:26:15,400 --> 02:26:16,760
Speaker 5: That's what we're talking about.

2915
02:26:17,240 --> 02:26:20,560
Speaker 11: We're also talking about a period of repression that the

2916
02:26:20,640 --> 02:26:24,280
Speaker 11: Center for Constitutional Rights knows well following nine to eleven,

2917
02:26:24,920 --> 02:26:28,640
Speaker 11: when we were in the courts trying to get people

2918
02:26:28,720 --> 02:26:32,560
Speaker 11: out of secret detention. One thing that's different now is

2919
02:26:33,000 --> 02:26:36,840
Speaker 11: the legal infrastructure is so much stronger, and everyone out

2920
02:26:36,920 --> 02:26:40,440
Speaker 11: here on the streets knows that we cannot hide in

2921
02:26:40,520 --> 02:26:43,720
Speaker 11: the face of this amount of repression. We will be

2922
02:26:43,840 --> 02:26:47,440
Speaker 11: fighting in the courts and fighting in the streets to

2923
02:26:47,560 --> 02:26:53,840
Speaker 11: bring Mahmoud home and prevent this level of repression from spreading.

2924
02:26:55,640 --> 02:26:58,440
Speaker 5: To many others, as the administration has threatened to do.

2925
02:27:00,160 --> 02:27:04,000
Speaker 4: Was on Wednesday. For now, a Khalil will be remaining

2926
02:27:04,160 --> 02:27:08,480
Speaker 4: in ICED attention in Louisiana, and ICE director Tom Homan

2927
02:27:08,879 --> 02:27:15,440
Speaker 4: said Wednesday that quote, free speech has its limitations. Unquote Yeah.

2928
02:27:16,440 --> 02:27:18,920
Speaker 2: I have found some stuff today of people on the

2929
02:27:19,000 --> 02:27:22,480
Speaker 2: right attacking the judge who put out a I guess

2930
02:27:22,560 --> 02:27:25,560
Speaker 2: called a stay on this in part because the judge

2931
02:27:25,760 --> 02:27:29,720
Speaker 2: is Jewish, so it's nice to see the anti Semitism

2932
02:27:29,840 --> 02:27:33,480
Speaker 2: being used in that way as well in this instance.

2933
02:27:34,200 --> 02:27:37,440
Speaker 2: Just fascinating. We're really breaking new ground in all of this.

2934
02:27:38,080 --> 02:27:40,680
Speaker 4: A White House official did tell friend of the pod

2935
02:27:41,040 --> 02:27:44,800
Speaker 4: the Free Press not necessarily our favorite publication, but they

2936
02:27:44,840 --> 02:27:47,200
Speaker 4: do have an exclusive quote here that the basis for

2937
02:27:47,240 --> 02:27:49,800
Speaker 4: targeting Khalil is being used as a blueprint for investigations

2938
02:27:49,800 --> 02:27:53,680
Speaker 4: against other students, saying Khalil is quote a threat to

2939
02:27:53,840 --> 02:27:57,360
Speaker 4: the foreign policy and national security interests of the United

2940
02:27:57,360 --> 02:28:01,080
Speaker 4: States unquote. Said the official that this calculation was the

2941
02:28:01,200 --> 02:28:04,680
Speaker 4: driving force behind the arrest, saying, quote, the allegation here

2942
02:28:04,800 --> 02:28:07,400
Speaker 4: is not that he was breaking the law. So we

2943
02:28:07,520 --> 02:28:10,680
Speaker 4: have this official like openly say, like, he's not charged

2944
02:28:10,720 --> 02:28:12,640
Speaker 4: with the crime. We're just wanting to see if we

2945
02:28:12,760 --> 02:28:15,720
Speaker 4: can do this. Can we deport a legal permanent resident

2946
02:28:15,760 --> 02:28:17,400
Speaker 4: for saying something that we don't like?

2947
02:28:17,760 --> 02:28:19,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think that there's been a lot of

2948
02:28:19,160 --> 02:28:22,040
Speaker 3: comparisons to this to direct Macarthyism. I think that's accurate

2949
02:28:22,080 --> 02:28:24,000
Speaker 3: to some extent. I think the most direct comparison to

2950
02:28:24,040 --> 02:28:27,280
Speaker 3: this is not Macarthyism. It's the Palmer Raids, yep, which

2951
02:28:27,280 --> 02:28:29,480
Speaker 3: I think people tend to be way less familiar with.

2952
02:28:29,560 --> 02:28:31,840
Speaker 3: That was the first Red Scare, which was largely targeted

2953
02:28:31,840 --> 02:28:33,840
Speaker 3: at the industrial workers of the world for their opposition

2954
02:28:33,959 --> 02:28:37,240
Speaker 3: to World War One, and they did basically the same shit.

2955
02:28:37,240 --> 02:28:38,840
Speaker 3: A lot of people would give anti war speeches and

2956
02:28:38,879 --> 02:28:41,800
Speaker 3: then a whole bunch of IWW organizers and other sort

2957
02:28:41,800 --> 02:28:45,720
Speaker 3: of like leftists would get fucking deported for it. So yeah,

2958
02:28:45,800 --> 02:28:49,160
Speaker 3: that was a absolutely terrifying period of repression. If the

2959
02:28:49,240 --> 02:28:51,240
Speaker 3: line is not drawn here, and it should have been

2960
02:28:51,320 --> 02:28:54,160
Speaker 3: drawn like two hundred miles back from here, but if

2961
02:28:54,200 --> 02:28:55,039
Speaker 3: isn't drawn here, this is.

2962
02:28:55,040 --> 02:28:55,640
Speaker 1: Going to continue.

2963
02:28:55,680 --> 02:28:56,960
Speaker 3: This is going to continue to get worse.

2964
02:28:57,600 --> 02:28:59,840
Speaker 4: And I mean all of this is in relation to

2965
02:29:00,120 --> 02:29:04,760
Speaker 4: Trump's executive order, you know about quote unquote anti Semitism. Meanwhile,

2966
02:29:04,920 --> 02:29:08,119
Speaker 4: today in the Oval Office he said something incredibly anti

2967
02:29:08,200 --> 02:29:11,040
Speaker 4: Semitic and also anti Arab somehow, like in this same

2968
02:29:11,120 --> 02:29:14,920
Speaker 4: statement saying, quote, Schumer is a Palestinian as far as

2969
02:29:14,959 --> 02:29:19,000
Speaker 4: I'm concerned, he's become a Palestinian. He used to be Jewish,

2970
02:29:19,320 --> 02:29:24,200
Speaker 4: He's not Jewish anymore. He's a Palestinian unquote, which is

2971
02:29:24,320 --> 02:29:28,840
Speaker 4: just an unbelievably anti Semitic and anti Arab statement all

2972
02:29:28,959 --> 02:29:33,520
Speaker 4: at once, like removing someone's Jewishness because of how they

2973
02:29:33,680 --> 02:29:36,080
Speaker 4: act or things they've said, or things they believe in.

2974
02:29:36,680 --> 02:29:38,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's one of those things. Again, Like it's

2975
02:29:38,760 --> 02:29:41,520
Speaker 2: worth like covering this as it develops. There's not much

2976
02:29:41,560 --> 02:29:43,760
Speaker 2: to say other than like this is incredibly illegal and

2977
02:29:43,879 --> 02:29:46,800
Speaker 2: has to be opposed immediately and vigorously.

2978
02:29:47,440 --> 02:29:50,400
Speaker 4: Like yeah, yeah, no, it's really bad. And of course

2979
02:29:50,440 --> 02:29:52,440
Speaker 4: you're not gonna have the ADL coming out against Trump.

2980
02:29:52,440 --> 02:29:55,640
Speaker 2: HEO, the acl you did, which I should note because

2981
02:29:55,640 --> 02:29:57,600
Speaker 2: I heard some people saying they did not expect the

2982
02:29:57,680 --> 02:30:00,920
Speaker 2: ACLU too they have. But yeah, the ADL is fully

2983
02:30:00,959 --> 02:30:02,800
Speaker 2: in the camp of Lockgin, who won up who's ever

2984
02:30:02,879 --> 02:30:04,279
Speaker 2: protested Israel.

2985
02:30:04,520 --> 02:30:06,360
Speaker 4: And they're not going to call Trump Andie Semitic for

2986
02:30:06,440 --> 02:30:10,000
Speaker 4: making a statement like this, Yeah, because their interests are

2987
02:30:10,320 --> 02:30:13,600
Speaker 4: fairly aligned at this point. Read what's happening in Gaza.

2988
02:30:14,240 --> 02:30:16,800
Speaker 4: So I think now we're going to play a special

2989
02:30:16,879 --> 02:30:19,640
Speaker 4: report from James, who can't be on the recording here today,

2990
02:30:19,840 --> 02:30:24,080
Speaker 4: but he does have a report on deportations in Panama.

2991
02:30:24,600 --> 02:30:26,200
Speaker 4: So James take it away.

2992
02:30:26,760 --> 02:30:29,320
Speaker 1: So something that we've seen in the last week is

2993
02:30:29,400 --> 02:30:32,920
Speaker 1: that the people who the US government has deported to Panama,

2994
02:30:32,959 --> 02:30:35,720
Speaker 1: who it can't deport to their home countries, have in

2995
02:30:35,800 --> 02:30:38,320
Speaker 1: some cases been released by the Panamanian government and given

2996
02:30:38,560 --> 02:30:42,560
Speaker 1: a thirty day visa or thirty days to essentially exit Panama,

2997
02:30:43,280 --> 02:30:45,920
Speaker 1: and they're not really been given any support. So they're

2998
02:30:45,920 --> 02:30:47,640
Speaker 1: in some cases like just sleeping on the streets in

2999
02:30:47,680 --> 02:30:50,680
Speaker 1: Panama City, right just wandering around trying to work out

3000
02:30:50,720 --> 02:30:53,480
Speaker 1: how to get home and trying to work out like

3001
02:30:53,680 --> 02:30:57,120
Speaker 1: what they should do next. Obviously, these people who have

3002
02:30:57,240 --> 02:31:00,600
Speaker 1: fled places like Afghanistan, Iran right where they can't go

3003
02:31:00,720 --> 02:31:03,199
Speaker 1: back to they would face persecution just for the act

3004
02:31:03,959 --> 02:31:06,400
Speaker 1: of having tried to lead, and they weren't already facing

3005
02:31:06,480 --> 02:31:08,879
Speaker 1: persecution before, which many of them were. That that's why

3006
02:31:08,920 --> 02:31:12,240
Speaker 1: they fled. So they've just kind of kicked it down

3007
02:31:12,320 --> 02:31:15,320
Speaker 1: the road a little bit and we'll see where this leads.

3008
02:31:15,480 --> 02:31:19,440
Speaker 1: But it's another piece of evidence that this wasn't hugely

3009
02:31:19,520 --> 02:31:21,720
Speaker 1: well planned, that the Trump administration just wanted to get

3010
02:31:21,760 --> 02:31:24,119
Speaker 1: these deportation numbers up at almost any cost.

3011
02:31:25,200 --> 02:31:27,160
Speaker 4: Right, We're gonna go on a break and come back

3012
02:31:27,200 --> 02:31:30,760
Speaker 4: to talk about the Department of Education and Tariff talk

3013
02:31:30,879 --> 02:31:31,600
Speaker 4: with mi A Walng.

3014
02:31:44,040 --> 02:31:44,280
Speaker 6: Wow.

3015
02:31:44,640 --> 02:31:48,760
Speaker 2: Well we're are back, and you know it's everyone's favorite

3016
02:31:48,840 --> 02:31:54,160
Speaker 2: time of the podcast talking about tariffs. And before we

3017
02:31:54,280 --> 02:31:56,840
Speaker 2: get to Mia, I want to bring on a musical

3018
02:31:56,920 --> 02:31:59,199
Speaker 2: guest to set this section of the program up.

3019
02:32:00,840 --> 02:32:12,600
Speaker 4: Lock Locking jazz, Rocky jazz bot sorry lot locking jazz bo.

3020
02:32:12,959 --> 02:32:18,720
Speaker 2: Locky jazz bob ah. Yeah, Oh my gosh. That was

3021
02:32:18,879 --> 02:32:22,600
Speaker 2: worth the rest of our year's budget. Now everyone will

3022
02:32:22,680 --> 02:32:24,600
Speaker 2: be getting paid for the rest of the year in

3023
02:32:24,800 --> 02:32:27,920
Speaker 2: Denny's coupons. That's all we have left after paying for this.

3024
02:32:28,120 --> 02:32:30,360
Speaker 2: But I think we can all agree worth it.

3025
02:32:30,680 --> 02:32:32,440
Speaker 4: Do you want to explain what that is because I

3026
02:32:32,640 --> 02:32:37,520
Speaker 4: still don't really have a clue what exactly that opening

3027
02:32:37,600 --> 02:32:39,080
Speaker 4: theme song is for tariff talk.

3028
02:32:39,480 --> 02:32:41,920
Speaker 2: Well, there was a great band called The Clash once

3029
02:32:42,000 --> 02:32:44,640
Speaker 2: and they wrote one song that wasn't very good, and

3030
02:32:45,240 --> 02:32:47,959
Speaker 2: in it somebody says something that didn't sound very much

3031
02:32:48,040 --> 02:32:51,240
Speaker 2: like the word tariff, but if you mispronounce the word tariff,

3032
02:32:51,320 --> 02:32:55,160
Speaker 2: it fit in. And that's where forty two thousand dollars

3033
02:32:55,240 --> 02:32:57,840
Speaker 2: of our operating budget this year went. Anyway, Mia, let's

3034
02:32:57,879 --> 02:32:58,760
Speaker 2: talk about tariff's.

3035
02:32:59,000 --> 02:33:01,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, now that I've they've gotten one of the two

3036
02:33:01,120 --> 02:33:03,800
Speaker 3: things I've ever wanted in life, play on music. So

3037
02:33:05,480 --> 02:33:08,800
Speaker 3: since last week this has been an entire roller coaster

3038
02:33:08,920 --> 02:33:11,760
Speaker 3: because right after we finished recording, in like the next

3039
02:33:11,840 --> 02:33:14,200
Speaker 3: two days, everyone went, oh, the tariffs aren't going to

3040
02:33:14,240 --> 02:33:16,040
Speaker 3: be that bad, because a lot of the tariffs that

3041
02:33:16,080 --> 02:33:19,119
Speaker 3: were hit with Trump sort of general twenty five percent

3042
02:33:19,200 --> 02:33:21,880
Speaker 3: Canada Mexico tariff got wave after Trump agreed not to

3043
02:33:21,920 --> 02:33:25,680
Speaker 3: apply them to goods covered by the USMCA free trade agreements.

3044
02:33:26,680 --> 02:33:30,160
Speaker 3: But then everyone remembered that the twenty five percent steel

3045
02:33:30,200 --> 02:33:32,360
Speaker 3: in a lune of tariff was still going into effect,

3046
02:33:32,520 --> 02:33:35,400
Speaker 3: and so that went into effect this week. Now, there

3047
02:33:35,560 --> 02:33:38,360
Speaker 3: was also a brief, incredible moment of panic where Trump

3048
02:33:38,480 --> 02:33:41,440
Speaker 3: was talking about doubling them to fifty percents. He backs

3049
02:33:41,480 --> 02:33:44,400
Speaker 3: off of this in exchange for Ontario's dug Ford stopping

3050
02:33:44,600 --> 02:33:48,240
Speaker 3: a like twenty five percent increase in electricity prices. However,

3051
02:33:48,560 --> 02:33:52,040
Speaker 3: come the trade war is one hundred percent still on.

3052
02:33:52,400 --> 02:33:54,640
Speaker 3: Canada is doing a whole like sort of slate of

3053
02:33:54,680 --> 02:33:58,800
Speaker 3: reciprocal tariffs specifically on steel and also terriffs and taxes

3054
02:33:58,920 --> 02:34:02,120
Speaker 3: on a whole suite of other US goods. I'm just

3055
02:34:02,160 --> 02:34:04,400
Speaker 3: gonna read this from the Associated Press because this is

3056
02:34:04,480 --> 02:34:07,120
Speaker 3: no longer the trade war here is no longer limited

3057
02:34:07,200 --> 02:34:10,000
Speaker 3: to the US, Canada, China, and to some extp Mexico.

3058
02:34:10,080 --> 02:34:13,880
Speaker 3: For Mexico's really hasn't been responding in the same way

3059
02:34:14,000 --> 02:34:16,680
Speaker 3: as basically every other country who's come under these tariffs,

3060
02:34:16,800 --> 02:34:18,840
Speaker 3: or at least the sort of main focuses of these tariffs.

3061
02:34:19,720 --> 02:34:22,280
Speaker 3: But this week the EU officially joined the phrase. So

3062
02:34:22,360 --> 02:34:25,440
Speaker 3: here's from the AP quote across the Atlantic, the European

3063
02:34:25,520 --> 02:34:29,920
Speaker 3: Union will raise tariffs on American beef, poultry, bourbon, and motorcycles.

3064
02:34:30,400 --> 02:34:31,320
Speaker 5: Bourbon again.

3065
02:34:32,600 --> 02:34:33,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Bourbon twice.

3066
02:34:34,280 --> 02:34:35,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, Bourbon twice.

3067
02:34:35,440 --> 02:34:36,960
Speaker 2: It's twice as important as the other thing.

3068
02:34:37,440 --> 02:34:39,800
Speaker 3: Yes, peanut butter and jeans. Actually you say this, There

3069
02:34:39,920 --> 02:34:43,040
Speaker 3: was a whole like part of the whole speech that

3070
02:34:43,160 --> 02:34:45,520
Speaker 3: was not a joke. Maya people the EU would like this.

3071
02:34:45,640 --> 02:34:47,080
Speaker 3: This was this was part of the thing. Was yeah, like,

3072
02:34:47,120 --> 02:34:49,760
Speaker 3: we're hoping to restore the profitability of the American spirits

3073
02:34:49,840 --> 02:34:51,280
Speaker 3: markets with the US backs down.

3074
02:34:51,640 --> 02:34:54,320
Speaker 4: It was also the only American product that Trudeau can

3075
02:34:54,400 --> 02:34:55,400
Speaker 4: named during his big.

3076
02:34:55,920 --> 02:34:59,920
Speaker 2: Very funny, let's be honest, outside of music, this name

3077
02:35:00,240 --> 02:35:02,360
Speaker 2: has produced one thing of value to the world, and

3078
02:35:02,440 --> 02:35:03,000
Speaker 2: it's Bourbon.

3079
02:35:04,440 --> 02:35:06,600
Speaker 3: Pretty reasonable. It's also very funny that it was like

3080
02:35:06,840 --> 02:35:09,600
Speaker 3: Bourbon was like our what attempts number was it at

3081
02:35:09,680 --> 02:35:14,359
Speaker 3: making whiskey before we finally got one that was like exportable.

3082
02:35:14,959 --> 02:35:17,920
Speaker 2: Terrible, I mean yeah, it took it took generations. Look,

3083
02:35:18,040 --> 02:35:21,120
Speaker 2: you know, Rome wasn't built in the day, and bourbon

3084
02:35:21,320 --> 02:35:23,760
Speaker 2: is the ream of liquors produced in Kentucky.

3085
02:35:24,160 --> 02:35:26,039
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, and speaking of it being produced in Kentucky,

3086
02:35:26,240 --> 02:35:29,320
Speaker 3: this is actually deliberately Okay, well, all right, so the

3087
02:35:29,360 --> 02:35:31,800
Speaker 3: EU in theory, the line that they're saying is that

3088
02:35:31,879 --> 02:35:35,879
Speaker 3: these are deliberately designed to like target things that are

3089
02:35:35,920 --> 02:35:40,480
Speaker 3: made in Red States. They also did do soybean tariffs too, though,

3090
02:35:40,840 --> 02:35:44,920
Speaker 3: which is, you know, like you're dropping a new kin

3091
02:35:45,000 --> 02:35:48,000
Speaker 3: Illinois here. Okay, So, the EU as and post reciprocal

3092
02:35:48,040 --> 02:35:51,600
Speaker 3: tariffs on twenty eight billion dollars of US goods. Also

3093
02:35:51,920 --> 02:35:54,960
Speaker 3: on Tuesday, China's tariffs went into effect, which means the

3094
02:35:55,040 --> 02:35:57,280
Speaker 3: agricultural terrifts that we talked about last week, and notably

3095
02:35:57,320 --> 02:35:59,320
Speaker 3: I keep coming back to soybeans because soybeans are such

3096
02:35:59,320 --> 02:36:02,120
Speaker 3: a critical part of the system of American agriculture as

3097
02:36:02,200 --> 02:36:03,959
Speaker 3: the crop that you rotate out with coren to sort

3098
02:36:04,000 --> 02:36:07,039
Speaker 3: of like preserve soil integrity. The Chinese tariffs are now

3099
02:36:07,360 --> 02:36:11,960
Speaker 3: in effect, it's mostly on agricultural goods. Yeah, and this

3100
02:36:12,520 --> 02:36:15,440
Speaker 3: has I think in ways that are pretty predictable, at

3101
02:36:15,520 --> 02:36:19,080
Speaker 3: least to me. This has caused a lot of panic

3102
02:36:19,160 --> 02:36:21,520
Speaker 3: in the markets. There's been some sort of rallying as

3103
02:36:21,600 --> 02:36:24,560
Speaker 3: like more information comes in, but there's stuff that I

3104
02:36:25,000 --> 02:36:29,160
Speaker 3: did not predict, which is so okay. Goldman Sachs has

3105
02:36:29,240 --> 02:36:33,039
Speaker 3: downgraded its projection for us GDP growth. Their chief economist

3106
02:36:33,080 --> 02:36:34,440
Speaker 3: is talking about how he thinks we're going to get

3107
02:36:34,440 --> 02:36:37,640
Speaker 3: stagflation again, which is sort of While cyclation was the

3108
02:36:37,720 --> 02:36:40,320
Speaker 3: thing in the seventies that was, you know, like you

3109
02:36:40,400 --> 02:36:42,960
Speaker 3: have inflation and unemployment growth at the same time, this

3110
02:36:43,360 --> 02:36:46,560
Speaker 3: is basically the economic condition that liquidated the welfare state

3111
02:36:46,760 --> 02:36:48,440
Speaker 3: and allowed to write take power in the first place.

3112
02:36:48,560 --> 02:36:50,800
Speaker 4: That's funny because when I google stag inflation, I get

3113
02:36:50,959 --> 02:36:54,560
Speaker 4: very different results. That could just be my own No.

3114
02:36:54,840 --> 02:36:58,360
Speaker 2: That's that's stagfilation, Garrison, two very different things.

3115
02:36:58,800 --> 02:37:03,040
Speaker 4: Oh sorry, yeah, I think think, I think I'm anyway,

3116
02:37:04,560 --> 02:37:05,000
Speaker 4: the things I.

3117
02:37:05,080 --> 02:37:08,000
Speaker 3: Have to deal with on this job, they never warned

3118
02:37:08,040 --> 02:37:11,760
Speaker 3: me every single time. It's true, it's true, it's true.

3119
02:37:11,800 --> 02:37:12,080
Speaker 5: This is this.

3120
02:37:12,240 --> 02:37:13,640
Speaker 2: This makes up for a lot if you ever get

3121
02:37:13,680 --> 02:37:15,800
Speaker 2: to fight the undertaker. You have a song to go

3122
02:37:15,959 --> 02:37:16,320
Speaker 2: on too.

3123
02:37:16,760 --> 02:37:20,400
Speaker 3: It's true. So okay now now, so it's sort of

3124
02:37:20,520 --> 02:37:23,640
Speaker 3: more surprisingly And this is something I have literally never

3125
02:37:23,720 --> 02:37:27,520
Speaker 3: seen before with the US. Both City Bank, while City

3126
02:37:27,560 --> 02:37:29,840
Speaker 3: which is the over the City Bank like changed his

3127
02:37:29,959 --> 02:37:33,480
Speaker 3: name to City or something. But City Bank and ubs

3128
02:37:33,600 --> 02:37:38,200
Speaker 3: the giants Swiss Bank downgraded the status of all US equities.

3129
02:37:38,480 --> 02:37:40,800
Speaker 3: I have never seen anything like this in my entire life.

3130
02:37:40,840 --> 02:37:44,400
Speaker 3: They are also boosting the status of Chinese and EU equity.

3131
02:37:44,440 --> 02:37:46,880
Speaker 3: So this is basically like this doesn't have like a

3132
02:37:47,000 --> 02:37:50,160
Speaker 3: technical official effect, but this is like this is basically

3133
02:37:50,360 --> 02:37:55,840
Speaker 3: their their evaluation of what countries like stocks basically you

3134
02:37:55,879 --> 02:37:58,080
Speaker 3: should purchase right And this is also sort of applies

3135
02:37:58,120 --> 02:38:03,600
Speaker 3: to bonds, So is that bad? This is like I

3136
02:38:03,760 --> 02:38:06,320
Speaker 3: assume that the US would get its actual credit rating

3137
02:38:06,879 --> 02:38:10,199
Speaker 3: devalued before this happens. I've never this is this is unreal.

3138
02:38:10,640 --> 02:38:12,280
Speaker 3: Like the argument that they are making here is that

3139
02:38:12,360 --> 02:38:14,720
Speaker 3: it is because of the instability in the US, like

3140
02:38:14,920 --> 02:38:16,879
Speaker 3: because because of the tariffs and because of everything that's

3141
02:38:16,920 --> 02:38:19,720
Speaker 3: going on, that like you should just fucking pull your

3142
02:38:19,760 --> 02:38:21,640
Speaker 3: money out of the out of the US and American

3143
02:38:21,640 --> 02:38:24,040
Speaker 3: companies and put it somewhere else, and they're they're specifically

3144
02:38:24,120 --> 02:38:27,920
Speaker 3: boosting the status of Chinese and EU equities, which is

3145
02:38:28,120 --> 02:38:31,000
Speaker 3: astonishing because again one of one of the one of

3146
02:38:31,040 --> 02:38:33,160
Speaker 3: the countries again who's whose equity status that they are

3147
02:38:33,200 --> 02:38:36,000
Speaker 3: boosting is China. China's economy is a fucking disaster right now.

3148
02:38:36,040 --> 02:38:38,760
Speaker 3: They're dealing with like their fucking housing bubble going under.

3149
02:38:39,080 --> 02:38:40,760
Speaker 3: They've been trying to do this pivot to a consumer

3150
02:38:40,800 --> 02:38:42,920
Speaker 3: based economy for years and years and years and years,

3151
02:38:42,959 --> 02:38:44,840
Speaker 3: and it doesn't work because they don't pay people enough

3152
02:38:45,320 --> 02:38:49,160
Speaker 3: to actually like fuel an economy consumer spending. Like they're

3153
02:38:49,360 --> 02:38:51,280
Speaker 3: you know, they're they're about to take giant damage from

3154
02:38:51,320 --> 02:38:53,000
Speaker 3: the trade war. And also they like you know, like

3155
02:38:53,080 --> 02:38:55,080
Speaker 3: it was only like three years ago the CCP faced

3156
02:38:55,120 --> 02:38:58,760
Speaker 3: their first like nationwide mass protests like since Tianamen, right,

3157
02:38:59,280 --> 02:39:01,920
Speaker 3: and these guys like and again these these are the

3158
02:39:01,959 --> 02:39:05,440
Speaker 3: financial analysts of City Bank and ubs have looked at

3159
02:39:05,640 --> 02:39:08,360
Speaker 3: that and went, you are better off putting your money

3160
02:39:08,440 --> 02:39:11,080
Speaker 3: there than you are putting it in the US. I mean,

3161
02:39:11,320 --> 02:39:13,800
Speaker 3: at this point, I think Trump's tariffs have wiped out

3162
02:39:14,440 --> 02:39:17,560
Speaker 3: I'm reading four trillion from the US stock market just

3163
02:39:17,600 --> 02:39:18,560
Speaker 3: in this past month.

3164
02:39:18,720 --> 02:39:19,920
Speaker 2: Now now trillion.

3165
02:39:20,200 --> 02:39:22,000
Speaker 1: Is that? Okay?

3166
02:39:22,080 --> 02:39:25,600
Speaker 2: So for example, I have thirty two dollars right now

3167
02:39:25,840 --> 02:39:28,760
Speaker 2: in my pocket. Is it more than that? I think

3168
02:39:28,800 --> 02:39:31,240
Speaker 2: it's a little bit more, Okay, Okay, okay, so it

3169
02:39:31,760 --> 02:39:36,280
Speaker 2: is enough to buy two different servings of pizza. Okay,

3170
02:39:36,600 --> 02:39:38,240
Speaker 2: this is I'm trying to put this into terms I

3171
02:39:38,280 --> 02:39:39,280
Speaker 2: can understand, Thank you.

3172
02:39:39,720 --> 02:39:39,960
Speaker 4: It is.

3173
02:39:40,280 --> 02:39:42,600
Speaker 3: Imagine imagine one burger, right.

3174
02:39:42,600 --> 02:39:45,279
Speaker 2: And a burger in Portland does cost thirty two dollars?

3175
02:39:45,400 --> 02:39:49,080
Speaker 4: So yes, yes, Now now imagine I thought you're gonna say,

3176
02:39:50,240 --> 02:39:52,080
Speaker 4: does cost four trillion dollars?

3177
02:39:52,760 --> 02:39:55,480
Speaker 3: I mean probably tomorrow, right, like kudos. I don't know

3178
02:39:55,560 --> 02:39:58,359
Speaker 3: if any plagues.

3179
02:39:58,000 --> 02:40:01,160
Speaker 2: That we're doing adding levity because this is it legitimately

3180
02:40:01,280 --> 02:40:01,959
Speaker 2: kind of frightening.

3181
02:40:02,560 --> 02:40:05,680
Speaker 3: No, like this is I have never seen the financial

3182
02:40:05,720 --> 02:40:07,800
Speaker 3: press like yes, like the only times I've ever seen

3183
02:40:07,840 --> 02:40:09,960
Speaker 3: the financial press react to something like this is like

3184
02:40:11,280 --> 02:40:14,240
Speaker 3: they were kind of acting like this about the possibility

3185
02:40:14,280 --> 02:40:17,640
Speaker 3: of Jeremy Corbin like taking power in the UK, like

3186
02:40:18,120 --> 02:40:22,440
Speaker 3: they are like I watched a guy on CNBC, right,

3187
02:40:22,600 --> 02:40:25,240
Speaker 3: this is not like like this is this is not MSNBC.

3188
02:40:25,440 --> 02:40:28,560
Speaker 3: This is not even like CNN. This is CNBC literally

3189
02:40:28,680 --> 02:40:31,080
Speaker 3: go on air and call what Trump is doing quote

3190
02:40:31,160 --> 02:40:34,280
Speaker 3: insane and start talking about how this is and this

3191
02:40:34,320 --> 02:40:35,760
Speaker 3: is I think what these people are worried about is

3192
02:40:35,840 --> 02:40:38,000
Speaker 3: they're you know, the thing that they're seeing that's starting

3193
02:40:38,080 --> 02:40:39,480
Speaker 3: right now, and it's starting with these sort of these

3194
02:40:39,520 --> 02:40:43,400
Speaker 3: downgrades US equities is capital flight, which is straight up

3195
02:40:43,480 --> 02:40:46,080
Speaker 3: a butt like international capital taking their money from the

3196
02:40:46,240 --> 02:40:48,280
Speaker 3: US and fucking literally moving out of the country and

3197
02:40:48,320 --> 02:40:50,320
Speaker 3: moving at somewhere else because the US is so unstable.

3198
02:40:50,959 --> 02:40:54,000
Speaker 3: This is like, I don't know if anyone knows what

3199
02:40:54,440 --> 02:40:57,920
Speaker 3: mass capital flight from the US would do, because I've

3200
02:40:58,000 --> 02:41:00,800
Speaker 3: never seen anything like this. So part of what's going

3201
02:41:00,800 --> 02:41:02,160
Speaker 3: on right and part of the reason the markets have

3202
02:41:02,240 --> 02:41:03,960
Speaker 3: kind of recovered in the last few days after the

3203
02:41:04,200 --> 02:41:07,440
Speaker 3: tanking they did Monday is that, like the inflation data

3204
02:41:07,520 --> 02:41:09,400
Speaker 3: came out and it wasn't that bad. But the thing is,

3205
02:41:09,560 --> 02:41:11,160
Speaker 3: all of the inflation data we're getting right now and

3206
02:41:11,200 --> 02:41:14,039
Speaker 3: all of the economic indicators we're getting right now, it's

3207
02:41:14,080 --> 02:41:16,200
Speaker 3: going to take a little bit of time for the

3208
02:41:16,320 --> 02:41:19,280
Speaker 3: actual effects of these tariffs to set in, right Like

3209
02:41:19,360 --> 02:41:21,160
Speaker 3: these are these are things that like you know, it's

3210
02:41:21,160 --> 02:41:22,920
Speaker 3: going to take It's going to take like six months,

3211
02:41:23,000 --> 02:41:25,120
Speaker 3: maybe a year before we fully see the impacts of that,

3212
02:41:25,240 --> 02:41:27,120
Speaker 3: and but and when we do, it is going to

3213
02:41:27,240 --> 02:41:30,440
Speaker 3: fucking lawsmoking creator into the economy. And the worst part

3214
02:41:30,480 --> 02:41:32,160
Speaker 3: of it about this is this isn't even the most

3215
02:41:32,280 --> 02:41:35,320
Speaker 3: unhinged part of this. The most unhinged part of this

3216
02:41:35,560 --> 02:41:37,400
Speaker 3: is how the Republicans have been reacting to all of

3217
02:41:37,440 --> 02:41:40,200
Speaker 3: this in Congress. So one of the few things the

3218
02:41:40,240 --> 02:41:42,520
Speaker 3: Democrats have been trying to do, and I say one

3219
02:41:42,560 --> 02:41:46,080
Speaker 3: of the few because like the response has been downright collaborationists,

3220
02:41:46,360 --> 02:41:48,640
Speaker 3: but they've been trying to force Republicans to take a

3221
02:41:48,760 --> 02:41:52,800
Speaker 3: vote on the tariffs because the tariffs are unbelievably unpopular,

3222
02:41:54,080 --> 02:41:58,720
Speaker 3: and they're particularly unbelievably unpopular among like the capital owning class,

3223
02:41:58,760 --> 02:42:01,120
Speaker 3: who you know, actually matter. So what they've been trying

3224
02:42:01,120 --> 02:42:03,840
Speaker 3: to do is that Trump did these tariffs by declaring

3225
02:42:03,879 --> 02:42:06,200
Speaker 3: a state of emergency, and the Democrats wanted to use

3226
02:42:06,240 --> 02:42:08,640
Speaker 3: the National Emergencies Act to force to vote in the tariffs.

3227
02:42:08,640 --> 02:42:10,040
Speaker 3: I'm just going to read this in the New York Times.

3228
02:42:10,640 --> 02:42:13,400
Speaker 3: The National Emergency Law lays out a fast track process

3229
02:42:13,520 --> 02:42:16,960
Speaker 3: for Congress to consider a resolution ending a presidential emergency,

3230
02:42:17,560 --> 02:42:22,320
Speaker 3: requiring committee consideration within fifteen calendar days after one is

3231
02:42:22,360 --> 02:42:24,920
Speaker 3: introduced and a floor vote within three days after that.

3232
02:42:25,959 --> 02:42:28,720
Speaker 3: But the language the House Republicans inserted into their measure

3233
02:42:28,800 --> 02:42:32,360
Speaker 3: on Tuesday declare that quote, each day for the remainder

3234
02:42:32,480 --> 02:42:35,560
Speaker 3: of the one hundred and nineteenth Congress shall not constitute

3235
02:42:35,600 --> 02:42:38,720
Speaker 3: a calendar day for the purposes of the emergency that

3236
02:42:38,800 --> 02:42:42,200
Speaker 3: Trump declared on February first. So the point we are

3237
02:42:42,240 --> 02:42:44,720
Speaker 3: at right now is is, in order to preserve a

3238
02:42:44,800 --> 02:42:47,840
Speaker 3: bunch of tariffs which are effectively about to fucking obliterate

3239
02:42:47,879 --> 02:42:51,959
Speaker 3: the entire world economy, Congress has declared that days don't pass.

3240
02:42:54,200 --> 02:42:57,199
Speaker 3: This is fucking this is completely unhinged. This is fucking

3241
02:42:57,280 --> 02:42:59,560
Speaker 3: like caligulous horse in the Senate ship like they again,

3242
02:42:59,720 --> 02:43:04,600
Speaker 3: they are literally, they've literally declared that calendar days passing

3243
02:43:04,720 --> 02:43:07,120
Speaker 3: are not actually calendar days, so that Trump can just

3244
02:43:07,240 --> 02:43:10,760
Speaker 3: keep doing tariffs shit and rule by fiat like the Israelites.

3245
02:43:10,800 --> 02:43:14,000
Speaker 4: They have stopped time in order to win the battle.

3246
02:43:15,400 --> 02:43:19,080
Speaker 3: It's it's genuinely astonishing. And the extent to which this

3247
02:43:19,160 --> 02:43:20,840
Speaker 3: has kind of just been swept under the rug. The

3248
02:43:20,879 --> 02:43:23,280
Speaker 3: Republicans have been, you know, doing this kind of quietly, right,

3249
02:43:23,720 --> 02:43:26,400
Speaker 3: and and and the fact that like the fact that

3250
02:43:26,520 --> 02:43:29,920
Speaker 3: Democrats are not literally on TV every single second of

3251
02:43:29,959 --> 02:43:32,360
Speaker 3: every day going that the Republicans are voting to stop

3252
02:43:32,440 --> 02:43:35,640
Speaker 3: time so that Trump can destroy the economy is astonishing.

3253
02:43:36,320 --> 02:43:40,080
Speaker 3: It's this real like sort of admission by the Republican

3254
02:43:40,160 --> 02:43:43,000
Speaker 3: Congress that like they're seating authority over policy like to

3255
02:43:43,120 --> 02:43:45,960
Speaker 3: Trump completely right, Like the government now is Trump ruling

3256
02:43:46,000 --> 02:43:48,640
Speaker 3: by sort of fiat and people attempting to sort of

3257
02:43:48,680 --> 02:43:50,640
Speaker 3: like run circles around him in courts, which is not

3258
02:43:50,959 --> 02:43:54,000
Speaker 3: you know, working enormously Well, yeah, I we'll see and

3259
02:43:54,160 --> 02:43:55,920
Speaker 3: and you know, and this, this, this is starting to

3260
02:43:56,000 --> 02:44:01,360
Speaker 3: have effects on like investor confidence like in the US

3261
02:44:01,440 --> 02:44:03,840
Speaker 3: as a political entity and the US is an economic entity,

3262
02:44:03,840 --> 02:44:06,520
Speaker 3: which is unprecedented. The other thing I think it's worth

3263
02:44:06,800 --> 02:44:09,800
Speaker 3: noting is that these people like Elin Mus, Donald Trump

3264
02:44:09,879 --> 02:44:11,720
Speaker 3: the people around them have been saying for a long

3265
02:44:11,840 --> 02:44:14,360
Speaker 3: time that the plan is to cause a recession and

3266
02:44:14,400 --> 02:44:16,119
Speaker 3: then after the recession things are going to get better,

3267
02:44:16,160 --> 02:44:21,120
Speaker 3: and the financial pressures hasn't believed them. And this right

3268
02:44:21,320 --> 02:44:24,200
Speaker 3: now is the period in which they're starting to realize

3269
02:44:24,400 --> 02:44:27,840
Speaker 3: that they were serious about this. And I don't know

3270
02:44:27,920 --> 02:44:30,520
Speaker 3: what the political ramifications of that are going to be,

3271
02:44:30,640 --> 02:44:33,640
Speaker 3: because these are people who actually matter in the political system.

3272
02:44:34,240 --> 02:44:36,560
Speaker 3: And I think we'll see the ramlications of this play

3273
02:44:36,600 --> 02:44:38,119
Speaker 3: out and then the sort of coming weeks and months.

3274
02:44:38,160 --> 02:44:40,240
Speaker 3: But this is a fucking cliff that we've hit, and

3275
02:44:40,320 --> 02:44:42,840
Speaker 3: we're now like Wiley Coyote, like running off the side

3276
02:44:42,840 --> 02:44:43,760
Speaker 3: and trying not to look down.

3277
02:44:44,160 --> 02:44:48,240
Speaker 2: But on the upside, we have a great new song

3278
02:44:48,400 --> 02:44:51,400
Speaker 2: for everybody. So woo, who's to say if any of

3279
02:44:51,480 --> 02:44:52,320
Speaker 2: this has been bad?

3280
02:45:04,040 --> 02:45:08,000
Speaker 4: All right, we are back speaking of running circles around

3281
02:45:08,040 --> 02:45:12,600
Speaker 4: the courts. We do have a small update REUSA side.

3282
02:45:14,040 --> 02:45:16,680
Speaker 4: Last week, in a five to four vote, the Supreme

3283
02:45:16,720 --> 02:45:19,840
Speaker 4: Court denied an appeal from the Trump administration in a

3284
02:45:19,879 --> 02:45:24,400
Speaker 4: case regarding Trump's attempted federal funds freeze and the shuddering

3285
02:45:24,480 --> 02:45:27,040
Speaker 4: of USAID. This was a case filed by the AIDS

3286
02:45:27,160 --> 02:45:31,080
Speaker 4: Vaccine Advocacy Coalition and the Global Health Council. The White

3287
02:45:31,080 --> 02:45:33,760
Speaker 4: House is now required to pay foreign aid contractors for

3288
02:45:33,840 --> 02:45:36,879
Speaker 4: work that has already been completed, and further details will

3289
02:45:36,879 --> 02:45:39,640
Speaker 4: be worked out back in the district court. And it's

3290
02:45:40,040 --> 02:45:42,560
Speaker 4: still unclear, you know, if the Trump administration is going

3291
02:45:42,600 --> 02:45:45,640
Speaker 4: to abide by the court's ruling and resume all required payments.

3292
02:45:46,240 --> 02:45:48,720
Speaker 4: But this is the first move from the Supreme Court

3293
02:45:49,520 --> 02:45:53,440
Speaker 4: regarding you know, Trump's actions the past few months. This

3294
02:45:53,560 --> 02:45:57,720
Speaker 4: has also not stopped Trump from trying to slowly close

3295
02:45:57,879 --> 02:46:02,080
Speaker 4: other entire government agencies. This very week, the Education Department

3296
02:46:02,160 --> 02:46:05,199
Speaker 4: laid off nearly half of its workforce, over one thousand

3297
02:46:05,240 --> 02:46:08,879
Speaker 4: and three hundred employees. A late Tuesday night, Education Secretary

3298
02:46:08,959 --> 02:46:11,480
Speaker 4: Linda McMahon went onto Fox News to say that this

3299
02:46:11,640 --> 02:46:14,720
Speaker 4: reduction force is only the first step towards abolishing the

3300
02:46:14,959 --> 02:46:19,640
Speaker 4: entire Education Department, saying, quote, this was the president's mandate.

3301
02:46:19,879 --> 02:46:22,800
Speaker 4: His directive to me clearly is to shut down the

3302
02:46:22,840 --> 02:46:25,800
Speaker 4: Department of Education, which we know we'll have to work

3303
02:46:25,840 --> 02:46:29,240
Speaker 4: with Congress, you know, to get that accomplished. But what

3304
02:46:29,400 --> 02:46:32,040
Speaker 4: we did today was to take the first step of

3305
02:46:32,120 --> 02:46:36,240
Speaker 4: eliminating what I think is a bureaucratic bloat unquote.

3306
02:46:37,080 --> 02:46:39,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I mean, like, you know, we've talked about

3307
02:46:39,000 --> 02:46:41,280
Speaker 2: on the show for a long time, how eliminating Department

3308
02:46:41,280 --> 02:46:43,920
Speaker 2: of Education eventually destroying public education has been a long

3309
02:46:44,000 --> 02:46:47,040
Speaker 2: running goal. Oh yeah, of the most absolutely unhinged of

3310
02:46:47,120 --> 02:46:50,000
Speaker 2: these people who are the people now in charge, And yeah,

3311
02:46:50,040 --> 02:46:53,440
Speaker 2: they've decided to just like individually fuck every child in

3312
02:46:53,520 --> 02:46:53,959
Speaker 2: the US.

3313
02:46:54,760 --> 02:46:58,240
Speaker 4: It's incredible. Well, and so far, the way that they're

3314
02:46:58,240 --> 02:47:00,680
Speaker 4: trying to close up the Department of Education is kind

3315
02:47:00,680 --> 02:47:04,840
Speaker 4: of in a more selective manner because they're still keeping

3316
02:47:04,920 --> 02:47:06,480
Speaker 4: certain parts of the department active.

3317
02:47:06,800 --> 02:47:07,039
Speaker 7: Yeah.

3318
02:47:07,440 --> 02:47:09,720
Speaker 4: On March tenth, the Education Department announced that they were

3319
02:47:09,800 --> 02:47:14,440
Speaker 4: launching investigations into sixty universities for quote Title six violations

3320
02:47:14,680 --> 02:47:18,320
Speaker 4: relating to anti Semitic harassment and discrimination unquote. And this

3321
02:47:18,480 --> 02:47:21,560
Speaker 4: is in relation to anti genocide protests on campus. And

3322
02:47:21,920 --> 02:47:25,920
Speaker 4: this comes after Trump announced the immediate cancelation of four

3323
02:47:26,040 --> 02:47:29,519
Speaker 4: hundred million dollars in federal grants and contracts to Columbia University.

3324
02:47:30,480 --> 02:47:33,920
Speaker 4: The Education Department is threatening that these other fifty nine

3325
02:47:34,160 --> 02:47:37,440
Speaker 4: universities may lose their funding if they do not quote

3326
02:47:37,879 --> 02:47:40,600
Speaker 4: enforce Title six of the Civil Rights Act, which prohibits

3327
02:47:40,640 --> 02:47:43,760
Speaker 4: any institution that receives federal funds from discriminating on the

3328
02:47:43,800 --> 02:47:47,920
Speaker 4: basis of race, color, and national origin. National origin includes

3329
02:47:48,120 --> 02:47:52,840
Speaker 4: shared Jewish ancestry unquote. I don't know how to say here.

3330
02:47:53,840 --> 02:47:56,320
Speaker 3: You get to see all the threads of this admin

3331
02:47:56,400 --> 02:47:58,520
Speaker 3: coming together, right, which is that you know, these people

3332
02:47:58,560 --> 02:48:01,080
Speaker 3: are also attempting to effect if we destroy like the

3333
02:48:01,120 --> 02:48:04,040
Speaker 3: secondary education system in this country too, for reasons that

3334
02:48:04,120 --> 02:48:05,520
Speaker 3: are sort of unclear to me.

3335
02:48:05,760 --> 02:48:06,120
Speaker 4: I don't know.

3336
02:48:06,879 --> 02:48:09,080
Speaker 3: But what we're seeing here, right is the ways that

3337
02:48:09,160 --> 02:48:12,360
Speaker 3: the Democrats sort of like falling into lockscept with Republicans

3338
02:48:12,440 --> 02:48:15,600
Speaker 3: on back of the genocide in Israel has sort of

3339
02:48:15,680 --> 02:48:17,440
Speaker 3: led to this thing where the Republicans are using this

3340
02:48:17,520 --> 02:48:20,959
Speaker 3: to just straight up obliterate like all of the US

3341
02:48:21,120 --> 02:48:26,240
Speaker 3: is like political, economic, and social institutions.

3342
02:48:26,160 --> 02:48:29,120
Speaker 4: Well and specifically with this like investigation, they are they

3343
02:48:29,160 --> 02:48:32,080
Speaker 4: are trying to get all these universities to cooperate in

3344
02:48:32,200 --> 02:48:36,440
Speaker 4: efforts to selectively remove students who have protested against the

3345
02:48:36,480 --> 02:48:39,200
Speaker 4: genocide in Gaza. Right, this is this is the you know,

3346
02:48:39,360 --> 02:48:42,720
Speaker 4: the same attack on free speech and free expression that

3347
02:48:43,040 --> 02:48:46,080
Speaker 4: they're doing against Khalil, Like this is this is the

3348
02:48:46,120 --> 02:48:48,920
Speaker 4: same exact purpose, and now they're trying to get more

3349
02:48:48,920 --> 02:48:52,519
Speaker 4: and more universities to be complicit in like the selective

3350
02:48:52,840 --> 02:48:56,520
Speaker 4: removal of people in this country who choose to express

3351
02:48:56,560 --> 02:48:58,920
Speaker 4: their First Amendment rights regardless of whether they're a citizen,

3352
02:48:59,360 --> 02:49:02,800
Speaker 4: a green card, or on a student visa. So this

3353
02:49:03,000 --> 02:49:05,480
Speaker 4: is this is all deeply, deeply worrying.

3354
02:49:06,280 --> 02:49:06,640
Speaker 2: Robert.

3355
02:49:06,680 --> 02:49:09,160
Speaker 4: You have a small segment you want to discuss before

3356
02:49:09,200 --> 02:49:10,120
Speaker 4: we start to close out.

3357
02:49:10,760 --> 02:49:13,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, just a little bit at the end here. So

3358
02:49:13,840 --> 02:49:17,039
Speaker 2: in the subredit for the five ZHO five oh one

3359
02:49:17,480 --> 02:49:23,040
Speaker 2: protest campaign, which is an attempt to do protests in

3360
02:49:23,120 --> 02:49:26,440
Speaker 2: all fifty states simultaneously, right, I think their next day

3361
02:49:26,480 --> 02:49:29,039
Speaker 2: of action is coming up in April. I'm not giving

3362
02:49:29,080 --> 02:49:32,200
Speaker 2: an opinion on the overall thing, but in the subreddit,

3363
02:49:32,360 --> 02:49:35,800
Speaker 2: somebody posted claiming to be a National Guard soldier given

3364
02:49:35,920 --> 02:49:38,600
Speaker 2: kind of his thoughts on how the National Guard would

3365
02:49:38,680 --> 02:49:43,400
Speaker 2: respond to orders to carry out violence against US citizens,

3366
02:49:43,959 --> 02:49:45,920
Speaker 2: And I just wanted to chat about this book because

3367
02:49:45,920 --> 02:49:48,800
Speaker 2: it's it's something we talk about on the show pretty regularly.

3368
02:49:49,400 --> 02:49:52,160
Speaker 2: My opinion is that one of the likely ways things

3369
02:49:52,240 --> 02:49:54,920
Speaker 2: come to a head, probably as early as this summer,

3370
02:49:55,680 --> 02:49:59,080
Speaker 2: is that there is mass protests in DC and the

3371
02:49:59,160 --> 02:50:01,880
Speaker 2: Insurrection Act it gets used, and you know, the Guard

3372
02:50:02,040 --> 02:50:04,400
Speaker 2: at least are brought in to attempt to crack down.

3373
02:50:04,840 --> 02:50:07,400
Speaker 2: I mean, obviously Trump has done a version of this before,

3374
02:50:08,000 --> 02:50:11,600
Speaker 2: and Trump and his State attorney have both discussed using

3375
02:50:11,680 --> 02:50:14,119
Speaker 2: the Insurrection Act to crack down on protests. I think

3376
02:50:14,160 --> 02:50:15,960
Speaker 2: they see DC as the place they want to do that.

3377
02:50:16,760 --> 02:50:18,520
Speaker 2: So it's interesting to me to see a post like this.

3378
02:50:19,240 --> 02:50:21,200
Speaker 2: This is not a thing where like I've been able

3379
02:50:21,240 --> 02:50:23,600
Speaker 2: to verify this guy. Yet there's a couple of points

3380
02:50:23,680 --> 02:50:26,080
Speaker 2: that make me that is probably is a National guardsman.

3381
02:50:26,160 --> 02:50:28,480
Speaker 2: For one thing, there's a lot of them right like,

3382
02:50:28,600 --> 02:50:31,240
Speaker 2: this is not like a National guardsman. Where'd you find one?

3383
02:50:31,280 --> 02:50:32,920
Speaker 2: There's a ton of fucking dudes in the National Guard.

3384
02:50:33,360 --> 02:50:36,000
Speaker 2: For the other thing, everything he says is consistent with

3385
02:50:36,120 --> 02:50:38,440
Speaker 2: things that I have seen and talked to other people

3386
02:50:38,480 --> 02:50:40,800
Speaker 2: who are in and we're in the Guard about There's

3387
02:50:40,840 --> 02:50:43,320
Speaker 2: one little bit where he advises people on like stop

3388
02:50:43,400 --> 02:50:46,960
Speaker 2: the bleed gear, and he gives good advice. He says,

3389
02:50:47,000 --> 02:50:49,240
Speaker 2: only buy from NAAR and North American Rescue. It's the

3390
02:50:49,280 --> 02:50:52,840
Speaker 2: same advice we would have given. He cites DoD Directive

3391
02:50:52,879 --> 02:50:55,400
Speaker 2: thirteen forty four to ten, which is why he believes

3392
02:50:55,440 --> 02:50:57,800
Speaker 2: he's he's well within his rights to make a post

3393
02:50:57,920 --> 02:51:00,160
Speaker 2: like this, And in essence, what he's saying is that

3394
02:51:00,840 --> 02:51:03,440
Speaker 2: it is his belief that most of the military chain

3395
02:51:03,520 --> 02:51:07,360
Speaker 2: of command from NCOs up to officers would not be

3396
02:51:07,720 --> 02:51:10,800
Speaker 2: down with following the legal orders to fire on US citizens,

3397
02:51:11,240 --> 02:51:15,160
Speaker 2: but the vast majority of enlisted troops, if fired upon,

3398
02:51:16,080 --> 02:51:19,840
Speaker 2: would get over whatever issues they have with that very quickly, right.

3399
02:51:19,920 --> 02:51:22,360
Speaker 2: That's the gist of it is that I think, you know,

3400
02:51:22,640 --> 02:51:25,880
Speaker 2: within sort of the officer class and the NCO class,

3401
02:51:25,920 --> 02:51:28,040
Speaker 2: there are a lot of resistance to the idea of

3402
02:51:28,080 --> 02:51:31,720
Speaker 2: the military being used for domestic policing. That is less

3403
02:51:31,840 --> 02:51:35,320
Speaker 2: clear with kind of the enlisted class. Who are you know,

3404
02:51:35,480 --> 02:51:38,000
Speaker 2: a significant chuck of them are very much down for Trump.

3405
02:51:38,640 --> 02:51:41,920
Speaker 2: But whatever sort of divisions exist within enlisted soldiers would

3406
02:51:41,920 --> 02:51:45,280
Speaker 2: fall apart pretty quickly if soldiers were fired upon. And

3407
02:51:45,520 --> 02:51:49,440
Speaker 2: I think this is probably like assuming this is accurate,

3408
02:51:49,840 --> 02:51:52,120
Speaker 2: and I don't really see a reason to doubt it.

3409
02:51:52,200 --> 02:51:54,680
Speaker 2: There's nothing he's saying here that's crazy. I think this

3410
02:51:54,840 --> 02:51:57,600
Speaker 2: is kind of an interesting thing to keep in mind

3411
02:51:58,280 --> 02:52:00,920
Speaker 2: that like, when you're looking at the military, it's not

3412
02:52:01,200 --> 02:52:03,600
Speaker 2: the police. Like, if I have to have agents armed

3413
02:52:03,640 --> 02:52:07,040
Speaker 2: agents of the state cracking down on a protest, I'm

3414
02:52:07,160 --> 02:52:09,800
Speaker 2: less worried about people being killed if it's the National

3415
02:52:09,840 --> 02:52:14,119
Speaker 2: Guard in general. But that situation can change very very

3416
02:52:14,320 --> 02:52:20,080
Speaker 2: rapidly if like the situation becomes an active firefight. And

3417
02:52:20,760 --> 02:52:22,560
Speaker 2: I do think like that's the thing we have to

3418
02:52:22,760 --> 02:52:27,199
Speaker 2: consider right now, is the possibility that we have us soldiers,

3419
02:52:27,200 --> 02:52:30,880
Speaker 2: whether the National Guard or active duty, engaged openly in

3420
02:52:31,120 --> 02:52:34,720
Speaker 2: shooting at American protesters. Like that's that's in the cards

3421
02:52:34,760 --> 02:52:38,280
Speaker 2: as early as this summer. And it's not a fun

3422
02:52:38,320 --> 02:52:40,720
Speaker 2: the thing to think about. But I'm seeing more and more,

3423
02:52:41,680 --> 02:52:43,800
Speaker 2: not just posts like this, but I'm having more and

3424
02:52:43,920 --> 02:52:47,520
Speaker 2: more conversations with people who are in the military or

3425
02:52:47,560 --> 02:52:50,680
Speaker 2: who were are in the National Guard about their concerns

3426
02:52:50,760 --> 02:52:52,960
Speaker 2: about what they might be called upon to do. Some

3427
02:52:53,120 --> 02:52:54,720
Speaker 2: of this has to do with the border, but like

3428
02:52:54,840 --> 02:52:57,760
Speaker 2: it is becoming increasingly common for people in the military

3429
02:52:58,440 --> 02:53:01,360
Speaker 2: to worry about how they are going to be used

3430
02:53:01,400 --> 02:53:03,920
Speaker 2: in the immediate future. We're not talking about years. We're

3431
02:53:03,959 --> 02:53:06,840
Speaker 2: talking about this summer, right is when there's a very

3432
02:53:06,920 --> 02:53:08,560
Speaker 2: good chance a lot of stuff comes to a head.

3433
02:53:09,200 --> 02:53:12,280
Speaker 2: So these are things you should be thinking about. If

3434
02:53:12,320 --> 02:53:15,400
Speaker 2: you're listening and you are in the military. These are

3435
02:53:15,480 --> 02:53:17,120
Speaker 2: things that you should be thinking about because the people

3436
02:53:17,120 --> 02:53:18,880
Speaker 2: who are in charge of our government right now have

3437
02:53:19,080 --> 02:53:21,280
Speaker 2: made a lot of statements about how they want to

3438
02:53:21,480 --> 02:53:25,760
Speaker 2: use the military to deal with protests, and the idea

3439
02:53:26,200 --> 02:53:29,240
Speaker 2: that that's going to happen very soon is not not

3440
02:53:29,440 --> 02:53:30,199
Speaker 2: fringe or crazy.

3441
02:53:30,640 --> 02:53:33,200
Speaker 4: Well, and although these people might have you know, slightly

3442
02:53:33,240 --> 02:53:36,160
Speaker 4: more disciplined when it comes to actual firearms. There is

3443
02:53:36,200 --> 02:53:39,440
Speaker 4: also incidents like in twenty twenty yep where the Kentucky

3444
02:53:39,560 --> 02:53:42,360
Speaker 4: Army National Guard killed someone via the misuse of crowd

3445
02:53:42,480 --> 02:53:45,480
Speaker 4: control absolutely munitions. I think that is this is also

3446
02:53:45,600 --> 02:53:48,600
Speaker 4: worth stating. Even if you know, like a kent State

3447
02:53:48,680 --> 02:53:51,920
Speaker 4: situation maybe is not not as likely in like the

3448
02:53:52,040 --> 02:53:56,440
Speaker 4: modern day, there's certainly other other ways to cause grievous harm. Yes,

3449
02:53:56,640 --> 02:53:59,640
Speaker 4: in these sorts of like protest environments and when we've

3450
02:53:59,720 --> 02:54:00,080
Speaker 4: seen and.

3451
02:54:00,160 --> 02:54:02,480
Speaker 2: I mean even in Portland, when we have seen which

3452
02:54:02,520 --> 02:54:06,720
Speaker 2: you witnessed personally, unfortunately, Garrison, the worst injuries to crowd

3453
02:54:06,800 --> 02:54:10,440
Speaker 2: control devices are usually people in our case it was

3454
02:54:10,520 --> 02:54:13,880
Speaker 2: federal agents, but who are utilizing crowd control weapons and

3455
02:54:13,959 --> 02:54:16,360
Speaker 2: have not trained on them. Yeah, because they're not. There's

3456
02:54:16,400 --> 02:54:19,000
Speaker 2: certain ways you're supposed to and not supposed to use them,

3457
02:54:19,280 --> 02:54:20,680
Speaker 2: and these guys are just Hey, you know how to

3458
02:54:20,800 --> 02:54:22,000
Speaker 2: use a gun. You must know how to use the

3459
02:54:22,120 --> 02:54:23,039
Speaker 2: robotal thing.

3460
02:54:23,120 --> 02:54:25,960
Speaker 4: You know. No, if you use like less lethals the

3461
02:54:26,000 --> 02:54:28,840
Speaker 4: way you would use you know, a regular firearm, that

3462
02:54:28,920 --> 02:54:32,920
Speaker 4: actually leads to like much more like possible lethal consequences

3463
02:54:33,000 --> 02:54:35,879
Speaker 4: or like life changing consequences. Yeah, which you know, police

3464
02:54:35,959 --> 02:54:38,680
Speaker 4: are more familiar with the regular use of crowd control

3465
02:54:38,760 --> 02:54:42,200
Speaker 4: munitions that necessarily you know, like bore attack or or

3466
02:54:42,320 --> 02:54:44,920
Speaker 4: like state national guards. It's something that's also you know,

3467
02:54:45,040 --> 02:54:51,080
Speaker 4: worth keeping in mind. Let's close by my least favorite segment,

3468
02:54:51,280 --> 02:54:54,039
Speaker 4: Stinky Musk, which I still has a really bad name.

3469
02:54:55,240 --> 02:54:58,680
Speaker 4: On Monday, a Central judge ruled that Musk's DOGE should

3470
02:54:58,720 --> 02:55:01,640
Speaker 4: be the subject to comply with Foyer requests and public

3471
02:55:01,680 --> 02:55:05,600
Speaker 4: disclosures of information required of government agencies, with the judge

3472
02:55:05,680 --> 02:55:08,480
Speaker 4: ordering the release of email correspondence between Musk's team and

3473
02:55:08,520 --> 02:55:11,240
Speaker 4: the Office of Management and Budget and was ordered to

3474
02:55:11,320 --> 02:55:14,680
Speaker 4: quote begin producing documents on a rolling basis as soon

3475
02:55:14,879 --> 02:55:19,360
Speaker 4: as practicable unquote now. Despite Musk's claims of quote unquote

3476
02:55:19,400 --> 02:55:23,360
Speaker 4: maximum transparency, last month, the Trump administration tried to shield

3477
02:55:23,440 --> 02:55:26,760
Speaker 4: DOGE from public records requests by labeling the agency's documents

3478
02:55:26,800 --> 02:55:31,200
Speaker 4: as quote unquote presidential records, which carries special protections. This

3479
02:55:31,400 --> 02:55:34,760
Speaker 4: specific case is super interesting. The judge of federal judge

3480
02:55:34,800 --> 02:55:37,680
Speaker 4: by the name of Cooper also critiqued the way that

3481
02:55:37,800 --> 02:55:40,440
Speaker 4: the Trump admin tried to litigate this case, quoting from

3482
02:55:40,440 --> 02:55:43,560
Speaker 4: political quote the lawyers offered virtually nothing in the way

3483
02:55:43,560 --> 02:55:47,520
Speaker 4: of evidence about doge's operations or management. Indeed, the court

3484
02:55:47,600 --> 02:55:50,840
Speaker 4: wonders whether this decision was strategic, Cooper said, noting that

3485
02:55:50,840 --> 02:55:54,240
Speaker 4: the Trump administration lawyers had taken competing positions, including that

3486
02:55:54,360 --> 02:55:57,560
Speaker 4: DOGE qualifies as an agency under some sections of law

3487
02:55:57,760 --> 02:56:01,560
Speaker 4: but not others when it suits it. Thus, DOGE becomes,

3488
02:56:01,800 --> 02:56:05,920
Speaker 4: on the defendant's view, a Goldilock's entity, Cooper wrote, not

3489
02:56:06,120 --> 02:56:09,560
Speaker 4: an agency when it's burdensome, but an agency when it's convenient.

3490
02:56:11,160 --> 02:56:15,600
Speaker 4: And I do like Cooper's analysis here of how DOGE

3491
02:56:15,680 --> 02:56:19,000
Speaker 4: is very selectively an agency only when it causes, you know,

3492
02:56:19,200 --> 02:56:23,000
Speaker 4: benefit to Trump or Musk. And finally, we have one

3493
02:56:23,040 --> 02:56:27,119
Speaker 4: other Musk story to close out. This episode admits Tesla's

3494
02:56:27,160 --> 02:56:31,640
Speaker 4: plummeting stock price, protests outside Tesla dealerships, and reports of

3495
02:56:31,680 --> 02:56:36,120
Speaker 4: vandalism of dealerships across the country. Trump has essentially started

3496
02:56:36,160 --> 02:56:40,800
Speaker 4: doing ads for Tesla on the White House driveway. Upon

3497
02:56:41,080 --> 02:56:43,320
Speaker 4: climbing in a red car that he's not allowed to operate,

3498
02:56:43,520 --> 02:56:49,320
Speaker 4: Trump remarked, Wow, everything is computer So this was a

3499
02:56:50,000 --> 02:56:55,280
Speaker 4: very odd and kind of embarrassing show of favoritism. Where

3500
02:56:55,560 --> 02:56:58,800
Speaker 4: Musk brought out like a number of different Tesla models,

3501
02:56:59,120 --> 02:57:01,720
Speaker 4: and Trump got to unquote, you know, pick the one

3502
02:57:01,760 --> 02:57:04,560
Speaker 4: that he wanted to buy, as he just like sat

3503
02:57:04,640 --> 02:57:08,800
Speaker 4: in on this like televised advertisement for Tesla as his

3504
02:57:08,920 --> 02:57:12,560
Speaker 4: you know, company is losing a shocking amount of money

3505
02:57:12,720 --> 02:57:13,960
Speaker 4: in the in these talk market.

3506
02:57:14,080 --> 02:57:16,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, and there, I mean there, there's literally there's literally

3507
02:57:16,080 --> 02:57:18,720
Speaker 3: a picture of him with like the notes that he has.

3508
02:57:18,840 --> 02:57:21,039
Speaker 3: There's like in a in like really really like a.

3509
02:57:21,080 --> 02:57:24,680
Speaker 4: Tesla sales note like bullet point of like how much

3510
02:57:24,760 --> 02:57:27,680
Speaker 4: certain models are, what their different features are, which ones

3511
02:57:27,760 --> 02:57:30,480
Speaker 4: have self driving features included, which ones you have to

3512
02:57:30,520 --> 02:57:31,040
Speaker 4: pay extra for?

3513
02:57:31,520 --> 02:57:31,720
Speaker 5: Yeah.

3514
02:57:31,760 --> 02:57:34,400
Speaker 4: No, he's he's literally carrying like a Tesla sales pitch

3515
02:57:34,800 --> 02:57:38,080
Speaker 4: as he does this televised appearance boosting his new best

3516
02:57:38,160 --> 02:57:42,840
Speaker 4: friends and co president's company. Trump said on True Social

3517
02:57:43,520 --> 02:57:47,720
Speaker 4: the radical left lunatics are trying to illegally and collusively

3518
02:57:47,840 --> 02:57:52,880
Speaker 4: boycott Tesla, one of the world's greatest automakers and Elon's baby,

3519
02:57:53,760 --> 02:57:56,600
Speaker 4: in order to attack and do harm to Elon and

3520
02:57:56,760 --> 02:58:01,360
Speaker 4: everything he stands for. Unquote. So now not only has

3521
02:58:01,400 --> 02:58:05,000
Speaker 4: Trump called the Tesla boycott illegal, which which is, you know,

3522
02:58:05,480 --> 02:58:10,600
Speaker 4: its own form of unhinged. But on Tuesday, Trump announced

3523
02:58:10,640 --> 02:58:14,800
Speaker 4: that vandalism of Tesla's will be labeled as domestic terrorism,

3524
02:58:15,280 --> 02:58:19,320
Speaker 4: promising that perpetrators will quote unquote go through hell. A

3525
02:58:19,360 --> 02:58:23,760
Speaker 4: White House spokesperson Harrison Fields said, quote ongoing and heinous

3526
02:58:23,879 --> 02:58:28,800
Speaker 4: acts of violence against Tesla's by radical leftist activists are

3527
02:58:28,879 --> 02:58:32,840
Speaker 4: nothing short of domestic terror unquote, So that.

3528
02:58:32,879 --> 02:58:34,560
Speaker 2: Would be fun to see how that blaze out.

3529
02:58:35,440 --> 02:58:38,600
Speaker 3: I feel like we're we genuinely are not that far

3530
02:58:38,760 --> 02:58:41,160
Speaker 3: off from just like Trump trying to hand down legal

3531
02:58:41,280 --> 02:58:44,560
Speaker 3: mandate saying you must buy a Tesla like this. This

3532
02:58:44,680 --> 02:58:46,720
Speaker 3: is the this is the kind of shit that we're

3533
02:58:46,760 --> 02:58:47,119
Speaker 3: in now.

3534
02:58:47,640 --> 02:58:49,760
Speaker 4: Now, this is one of the most like bizarre things

3535
02:58:49,800 --> 02:58:53,080
Speaker 4: I've ever seen. If if Biden or any Democratic president

3536
02:58:53,120 --> 02:58:55,960
Speaker 4: did anything similar to this, you would have like thralls

3537
02:58:56,000 --> 02:58:59,040
Speaker 4: of people screaming for his impeachment, similar to like the

3538
02:58:59,160 --> 02:59:01,040
Speaker 4: erg Adams thing. It's like one of the most blatant

3539
02:59:01,080 --> 02:59:04,040
Speaker 4: open displays of corruption I've ever seen, where president is

3540
02:59:04,120 --> 02:59:08,200
Speaker 4: using his office to boost like the personal financial interests

3541
02:59:08,240 --> 02:59:11,560
Speaker 4: of one of his top advisors who's also like running

3542
02:59:11,760 --> 02:59:15,480
Speaker 4: government agencies essentially and doing massive, massive cuts to prohibit

3543
02:59:15,520 --> 02:59:18,840
Speaker 4: their ability to like investigate his own businesses while also

3544
02:59:18,879 --> 02:59:21,360
Speaker 4: taking massive amounts of government money to keep businesses like

3545
02:59:21,480 --> 02:59:25,600
Speaker 4: Tesla and SpaceX operable. So this has been a pretty

3546
02:59:25,680 --> 02:59:28,600
Speaker 4: pretty silly thing to watch unfold the past few days,

3547
02:59:29,080 --> 02:59:33,680
Speaker 4: and now Tesla shares have risen four percent after Trump's

3548
02:59:33,920 --> 02:59:35,920
Speaker 4: support for Musk and Tesla.

3549
02:59:36,320 --> 02:59:39,920
Speaker 2: Great, well, I think that's gonna do it here at

3550
02:59:40,000 --> 02:59:43,920
Speaker 2: us with the ed to play us out, We're gonna

3551
02:59:44,360 --> 02:59:47,720
Speaker 2: refer back to our friend the Narcissist Cookbook who put

3552
02:59:47,760 --> 02:59:50,840
Speaker 2: together our lovely new tariff theme song that you're gonna

3553
02:59:50,920 --> 02:59:53,760
Speaker 2: hear every week until tariffs aren't a thing anymore.

3554
02:59:54,200 --> 02:59:55,600
Speaker 4: We reported the news.

3555
03:00:00,360 --> 03:00:09,360
Speaker 3: Jazz Bob lot Jazz got lot Lock Jazz Bob Locking

3556
03:00:09,720 --> 03:00:10,280
Speaker 3: jazz bo.

3557
03:00:12,000 --> 03:00:15,120
Speaker 2: Hey, We'll be back Monday with more episodes every week

3558
03:00:15,240 --> 03:00:17,080
Speaker 2: from now until the heat death of the universe.

3559
03:00:18,640 --> 03:00:21,120
Speaker 10: It Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media.

3560
03:00:21,320 --> 03:00:24,320
Speaker 10: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

3561
03:00:24,440 --> 03:00:27,360
Speaker 10: folzonmedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeart

3562
03:00:27,440 --> 03:00:30,920
Speaker 10: Radio app, app a podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

3563
03:00:31,440 --> 03:00:33,320
Speaker 10: You can now find sources for It Could Happen Here

3564
03:00:33,400 --> 03:00:36,320
Speaker 10: listened directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening,