WEBVTT - Deconstructing Masculinity with Tony Porter: Part 2 0:00:01.760 --> 0:00:04.600 I am a Yamla. I've been very open about the 0:00:04.680 --> 0:00:07.720 fact that I was not always good at making my 0:00:07.840 --> 0:00:12.040 relationships work. I have been divorced three times, twice from 0:00:12.119 --> 0:00:15.000 the same person. In other words, I have seen a 0:00:15.040 --> 0:00:19.640 lot and failed a lot in my relationships. So I 0:00:19.680 --> 0:00:23.040 am here to share with you what I learned along 0:00:23.079 --> 0:00:26.760 the way, because I did take copious notes. Welcome to 0:00:26.800 --> 0:00:30.920 the R Spot, a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership 0:00:31.080 --> 0:00:44.320 with iHeartRadio. Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome to the R Spot. 0:00:44.520 --> 0:00:47.760 If you were with us last week, you heard me 0:00:48.000 --> 0:00:52.920 and my guest, Tony Porter, an author, a activist, an 0:00:53.080 --> 0:01:00.320 educator who works toward eliminating a racial and gender inequality. 0:01:00.560 --> 0:01:04.280 Tony is the author of Breaking out of the man Box. 0:01:04.680 --> 0:01:11.640 He's talking about reimagining manhood and eliminating the impact of 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:16.319 the collective socialization of men that have put them on 0:01:16.319 --> 0:01:20.320 what he calls remote control manhood. So we are going 0:01:20.360 --> 0:01:23.920 to continue that conversation today because it is just too 0:01:23.959 --> 0:01:26.679 good to cut out anything. I want you to hear 0:01:26.720 --> 0:01:31.080 it all, and here we go. I want to ask 0:01:31.120 --> 0:01:33.600 you some questions that I get. 0:01:33.400 --> 0:01:34.880 All of the time. 0:01:35.120 --> 0:01:38.039 I get all of the time from women and so 0:01:38.080 --> 0:01:41.880 that we can hear it from you, so that we 0:01:41.959 --> 0:01:44.720 have a a better way of dealing with the men 0:01:44.920 --> 0:01:49.279 in our lives and be a better way of raising 0:01:49.320 --> 0:01:53.400 our sons. That's my concern, because we're raising future husband's 0:01:53.440 --> 0:01:57.000 future fathers. Okay, here's a question that I get all 0:01:57.160 --> 0:02:01.040 of the time. He doesn't communicate. What can I do 0:02:01.720 --> 0:02:05.800 to help him communicate? He doesn't communicate? So we understand 0:02:05.800 --> 0:02:09.560 the collective socialization. We understand the man's fear of being 0:02:09.639 --> 0:02:14.040 vulnerable or looking weak. We understand his resistance to asking 0:02:14.120 --> 0:02:16.560 for help. But as a woman with a man, I 0:02:16.560 --> 0:02:20.079 love my boo. He's here, he's you know, the father, mito. Whatever, 0:02:20.680 --> 0:02:23.120 how do I support assists? 0:02:23.880 --> 0:02:29.360 What do I do I think understanding the collective socialization 0:02:29.440 --> 0:02:32.640 and the role that plays in the lack of communication 0:02:32.760 --> 0:02:36.600 that we bring forward as men, makes it easy or 0:02:36.720 --> 0:02:40.040 what helps us to work with man in a way 0:02:40.080 --> 0:02:43.600 that makes sense or make that way that's productive, because 0:02:43.600 --> 0:02:46.120 we're not just these guys that don't you know, to 0:02:46.240 --> 0:02:48.520 just say, you know, I can't get this guy to talk. 0:02:49.440 --> 0:02:51.520 I can't get him to communicate with me. If we 0:02:51.560 --> 0:02:55.240 can think differently more about how we have been socialized, 0:02:55.360 --> 0:02:59.960 not to communicate right and to use that to help 0:03:00.000 --> 0:03:05.919 help you in the process of getting him to open up. 0:03:06.800 --> 0:03:09.840 So particularly, let me start with boys. Women do this 0:03:09.880 --> 0:03:12.239 with boys better than men do, by the way, because men, 0:03:12.480 --> 0:03:14.799 again it is not just about not a the ability 0:03:15.240 --> 0:03:17.160 to ask for help, we don't like to offer it. 0:03:17.639 --> 0:03:20.960 So women will teach their sons to communicate in a 0:03:20.960 --> 0:03:25.160 way that men don't, and actually, through that, boys will 0:03:26.400 --> 0:03:29.280 when they do want to talk, or men, when they 0:03:29.280 --> 0:03:30.639 do want to talk, they're going to talk to a 0:03:30.680 --> 0:03:33.760 women before they're going to talk to another man, because 0:03:33.760 --> 0:03:36.040 that's who was in their lives to talk with when 0:03:36.040 --> 0:03:40.800 they were boys. Men we disconnect from each other when 0:03:40.840 --> 0:03:43.240 it comes to that level of intimacy. Women stay at 0:03:43.280 --> 0:03:46.840 the table. But for me, it was teaching my sons. 0:03:49.480 --> 0:03:52.240 Just telling me I'm good, everything's cool, and I'm good 0:03:52.360 --> 0:03:55.120 wasn't enough. We had to have a conversation, right, to 0:03:55.240 --> 0:03:58.640 teach them to talk about their feelings, to teach them 0:03:58.920 --> 0:04:02.040 to have conversation that include how they feel. That that's 0:04:02.080 --> 0:04:04.560 a process, ongoing process. But let's say you get with 0:04:04.680 --> 0:04:07.040 a man and he ain't there yet, he didn't have 0:04:07.160 --> 0:04:10.360 that teaching or that experience, and now you're trying to 0:04:10.440 --> 0:04:14.360 jumpstart this thing. I think you gotta have patience, gotta 0:04:14.400 --> 0:04:19.560 have tolerance. Don't take it personal. This is not in 0:04:19.680 --> 0:04:25.120 a personal saut on you. Right, there's a baby step process, right, 0:04:25.200 --> 0:04:27.680 it could be very well could be a babyst process. 0:04:28.160 --> 0:04:30.679 It could be a seize the moment when he shows 0:04:30.800 --> 0:04:33.080 up in that way. But when you seize the moment, 0:04:33.120 --> 0:04:39.360 don't overwhelm him, right, Don't overwhelm them when the moment's dead, right, 0:04:39.880 --> 0:04:41.960 and give them, give them some room just to let 0:04:42.000 --> 0:04:44.119 it out, to say what it is he wants to say, 0:04:44.400 --> 0:04:49.039 without being bombarded with a thousand questions. Right, give him 0:04:49.080 --> 0:04:52.520 the space to kind of guide the ship a little bit. 0:04:53.160 --> 0:04:56.280 And then every now and then you can turn it somewhat. 0:04:56.400 --> 0:04:58.760 But give him the room to kind of guide it 0:04:58.920 --> 0:05:02.240 a little bit. Right. Uh, those are the kind of 0:05:02.240 --> 0:05:06.000 factcause yeah, yeah, because I know, particularly when you get 0:05:06.040 --> 0:05:10.600 excited and you know, because you see an opening or whatever, 0:05:10.680 --> 0:05:12.920 or even when you're mad, right, when you're when you're 0:05:13.000 --> 0:05:16.479 upset with him, that's when it really happens more, and 0:05:16.640 --> 0:05:20.320 not when you're upset with him. I think as men, though, 0:05:20.400 --> 0:05:23.640 we need to be held accountable. It's not about letting 0:05:23.720 --> 0:05:26.600 us off the hook. Either there's a level of accountability, 0:05:27.000 --> 0:05:32.800 the level of maturity, if he has a friend. Far 0:05:32.880 --> 0:05:36.120 too often, like we're blessed as men if we got 0:05:36.240 --> 0:05:38.800 as as young members say that ride or die. We're 0:05:38.800 --> 0:05:42.760 blessed if we have that, because we end relationships so 0:05:43.040 --> 0:05:46.839 easily as man. It's not just what women is with anybody, right, 0:05:46.880 --> 0:05:51.400 and women have lifelong relationships much more than we do 0:05:51.520 --> 0:05:54.400 as men. That y'all take hand of each other in 0:05:54.680 --> 0:05:58.599 a way that we don't collectively as as as men. 0:05:59.000 --> 0:06:01.400 But if he happens to have that person in his 0:06:01.600 --> 0:06:05.200 life and that person is a good person, that kind, 0:06:05.560 --> 0:06:08.880 if she can rely on that person and ask to 0:06:08.920 --> 0:06:12.719 build that kind of community around that man, it's best 0:06:12.760 --> 0:06:17.240 served obviously. Well, success is greater when we can teach 0:06:17.279 --> 0:06:20.599 theself boys as they grow into being men. But we 0:06:20.680 --> 0:06:23.680 already have men now that need a hand here. So 0:06:23.760 --> 0:06:30.000 my best advice is tolerance, patience, right, don't overwhelm, but 0:06:30.160 --> 0:06:34.560 look for yours and opportunities. And when he's dumping, let 0:06:34.560 --> 0:06:38.920 that boy dunk right, and then figure out how to 0:06:39.000 --> 0:06:41.000 be there with him. Put your arm around him, give 0:06:41.040 --> 0:06:44.520 him a big kiss, something that tells him I can 0:06:44.560 --> 0:06:51.279 come back and dump again tomorrow. And also it's important 0:06:51.279 --> 0:06:55.159 for women to be hay with men sharing their feelings 0:06:55.200 --> 0:06:59.600 and emotions because again, the same lessons that we've been 0:06:59.640 --> 0:07:02.760 taught as it relates to what it means to be 0:07:02.760 --> 0:07:05.919 a man, women have been taught the same thing. So 0:07:06.000 --> 0:07:09.080 a lot of women don't want that man sharing a 0:07:09.120 --> 0:07:11.360 lot of feelings a lot of emotions that you know, 0:07:11.440 --> 0:07:14.040 they believe that that's my space to do that that 0:07:14.160 --> 0:07:17.080 ain't for him. But what I'm saying is, if your 0:07:17.120 --> 0:07:20.080 man is not sharing his feelings and emotions, it's not 0:07:20.360 --> 0:07:23.160 like he's not stuffing them away. And when he stuffs 0:07:23.240 --> 0:07:26.160 him away, they come out sideways because they're coming out 0:07:26.160 --> 0:07:28.640 somewhere another. You know, there was a time, and that 0:07:28.840 --> 0:07:31.080 was a time. I just haven't had the opportunity of sometime. 0:07:31.120 --> 0:07:33.280 And I'm in front of a room, say a couple 0:07:33.240 --> 0:07:35.560 of hundred people, and I would ask the folks in 0:07:35.560 --> 0:07:39.640 the room, raise your hand. If you've never seen your 0:07:39.680 --> 0:07:44.280 father cry. Probably about a third of folks in the 0:07:44.400 --> 0:07:47.480 room hand go up, and I'll say keep your hand up. 0:07:48.360 --> 0:07:51.800 And those of you who only seen your dad or 0:07:51.960 --> 0:07:56.920 father figure cry once, please raise your hand. Between once 0:07:57.080 --> 0:08:01.960 and never, two thirds of the room easily, easily two 0:08:02.000 --> 0:08:06.800 thirds of the room has their hand up. That's killing 0:08:06.920 --> 0:08:12.560 us as men, right, that's killing us as men. So 0:08:12.640 --> 0:08:17.240 it's really really important that we raise our boys to 0:08:17.720 --> 0:08:21.640 learn and be able to share who they are emotionally, 0:08:22.440 --> 0:08:25.440 and we cultivate that with our men as well. And 0:08:26.320 --> 0:08:28.800 a lot of it is on the shoulders at this 0:08:28.840 --> 0:08:32.160 particular time, a lot of it is, unfortunately on the 0:08:32.160 --> 0:08:33.000 shoulders of women. 0:08:34.480 --> 0:08:36.360 I'm going to recap those notes. I want to get 0:08:36.400 --> 0:08:38.520 a couple of more of these questions. And here's the 0:08:38.520 --> 0:08:40.880 other thing. Let me just say this. When I work 0:08:40.960 --> 0:08:44.520 with men, I give them a list of feelings. 0:08:45.559 --> 0:08:49.440 I've got a very extensive I got a list, I 0:08:49.480 --> 0:08:52.280 got a positive list, I got a negative list. And 0:08:52.760 --> 0:08:57.920 because so many men don't have the vocabulary, their emotional 0:08:58.080 --> 0:09:04.880 library is good, bad, right, wrong, angry, happy. They don't 0:09:04.960 --> 0:09:08.720 know anxiety, they don't know disappointment, they don't know frustration, 0:09:09.040 --> 0:09:10.360 they don't know melancholic. 0:09:10.559 --> 0:09:12.920 So I give them a list and I say, okay, 0:09:13.080 --> 0:09:15.000 use it, and they use it. 0:09:15.080 --> 0:09:15.440 Okay. 0:09:15.520 --> 0:09:21.080 So here's another question I get asked by women all 0:09:21.120 --> 0:09:24.760 of the time. Let mean, this is how they say it. 0:09:25.679 --> 0:09:28.480 They'll give me a scenario and I say, okay, well 0:09:28.679 --> 0:09:32.760 that's disrespectful. They'll say, well, how come he can disrespect me, 0:09:33.440 --> 0:09:34.800 I can't disrespect them. 0:09:35.559 --> 0:09:39.959 It makes sense. And we're back to communication, right and 0:09:40.000 --> 0:09:43.760 how we communicate, how we do or don't communicate with 0:09:43.760 --> 0:09:46.319 each other. And you're right, my thoughts are very important 0:09:46.360 --> 0:09:49.520 to me for women or feelings are very important to her. 0:09:49.559 --> 0:09:53.000 And then how do we in a very mature way 0:09:54.800 --> 0:10:00.400 find that sweet spot in how we negotiate That is important. 0:10:00.480 --> 0:10:04.160 Maturity is very very important in respect to what we're 0:10:04.160 --> 0:10:08.880 talking about. Humility is very important, and respect we're talking 0:10:08.920 --> 0:10:12.360 about the ability to be humble and remain teachable. It 0:10:12.480 --> 0:10:20.199 is very important to what we're talking about. Understanding issues 0:10:20.240 --> 0:10:23.839 of gender as it relates to equity and equality, it's 0:10:24.000 --> 0:10:29.720 very very important, I think for men to understand understand that, understand, 0:10:30.400 --> 0:10:32.880 like I said, those three aspects of men with less 0:10:33.000 --> 0:10:38.120 value plus property plus objectification, because in those experiences with 0:10:38.360 --> 0:10:42.839 women that's in there for us. We need to understand 0:10:42.920 --> 0:10:47.360 what their experience has been like being victimized by that, 0:10:47.480 --> 0:10:52.840 and what our experience has been like not only being 0:10:53.000 --> 0:10:56.440 perpetrators of that, but many of us are not in 0:10:56.480 --> 0:11:00.520 an overt way but with benefactors of it regards to 0:11:00.720 --> 0:11:05.720 understand to that, I think it's just really important for 0:11:05.840 --> 0:11:12.719 us as men to spend time really exploring healthy manhood. 0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:15.520 And if we explore that, you know, what it means 0:11:15.520 --> 0:11:20.240 to be a healthy man. That means you're asking for help, 0:11:20.280 --> 0:11:23.719 you're offering help, you're accepting help. It means that you're 0:11:23.760 --> 0:11:26.880 willing to share your feelings and emotions openly. It means 0:11:26.960 --> 0:11:30.120 that you're willing to be vulnerable. It means that you're 0:11:30.120 --> 0:11:34.440 willing to work toward being your authentic self. It means 0:11:34.480 --> 0:11:37.199 that you're taking an interest in the experience of women 0:11:37.200 --> 0:11:41.160 and girls in sexual conquests. Is not a goal, you know, 0:11:41.480 --> 0:11:47.080 all of this encompasses being healthy men. I'm not here 0:11:47.120 --> 0:11:50.240 to be an authority in any sense of the word 0:11:50.320 --> 0:11:54.280 pretty much or nothing, but definitely not on the experience 0:11:54.320 --> 0:11:59.240 of women. But I do know and truly believe if 0:11:59.280 --> 0:12:01.959 we accompl some of the things that we're talking about 0:12:02.040 --> 0:12:06.840 as men, you know, and various times in my life 0:12:06.920 --> 0:12:10.920 doing men's groups, we would talk about the reality that 0:12:12.000 --> 0:12:15.720 men and women may come to a situation or come 0:12:15.760 --> 0:12:18.640 into a situation where we both have like let's say, 0:12:18.640 --> 0:12:25.920 a laundry list of issues. I still today believe that 0:12:26.040 --> 0:12:30.760 if we as men work on our issues alone, just 0:12:30.880 --> 0:12:35.880 work on ours. But in that relationship with her, her 0:12:35.960 --> 0:12:39.960 laundry list also begins to shrink as we're working on ours, 0:12:40.000 --> 0:12:43.520 because there are things on our lists, you know, that 0:12:43.640 --> 0:12:47.640 are really impacting her, that's contributing to her list. We 0:12:47.800 --> 0:12:50.160 just work on our list long, Let's just work on 0:12:50.280 --> 0:12:54.440 our stuff alone, right, I believe in a male dominating 0:12:54.480 --> 0:12:58.280 society which we still live in, her laundry list begins 0:12:58.320 --> 0:13:01.480 to shrink, right, But there are many things on her 0:13:01.559 --> 0:13:05.160 list that has come by the way of, you know, 0:13:05.760 --> 0:13:09.640 the trauma that she's experienced at the hands of men, 0:13:09.480 --> 0:13:13.000 and our level of maturity to be in that space 0:13:13.040 --> 0:13:16.200 and understand that and what we then take personal and 0:13:16.240 --> 0:13:22.120 what we don't. That's the work of men, you know. 0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:27.760 And I really believe that when men, you know, join 0:13:27.880 --> 0:13:32.360 on with other men, create space, have these kinds of 0:13:32.400 --> 0:13:36.559 conversations that you and I having today with the battles 0:13:36.640 --> 0:13:40.480 for it, with the better for it. And I'm also 0:13:40.520 --> 0:13:45.240 going to say, you know, most of the spaces that 0:13:45.400 --> 0:13:50.720 myself the other men of our organizations get to speak 0:13:50.760 --> 0:13:54.280 to men, I would say probably still seven out of 0:13:54.320 --> 0:13:59.360 ten times is women organizing the event or the activity 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:04.600 for us to have an opportunity to speak to men? Right? 0:14:04.720 --> 0:14:07.320 One of when you do prevention work, you know, it 0:14:07.400 --> 0:14:10.880 was hard to measure. One of my own personal measurements 0:14:11.360 --> 0:14:13.440 is when we at least get to fifty to fifty 0:14:13.559 --> 0:14:16.599 fifty percent of the time we're invited by men and 0:14:16.760 --> 0:14:19.720 fifty percent of the time we're invited by women. And 0:14:19.800 --> 0:14:20.960 we're not there yet. 0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:31.200 And we'll talk about that when we come back. Welcome 0:14:31.240 --> 0:14:35.120 back to the rspot. I want to raise this with 0:14:35.240 --> 0:14:37.880 you because I got you hearing you from New York, 0:14:37.960 --> 0:14:40.720 so I know we think kind of a like. I 0:14:40.800 --> 0:14:48.400 have been very, very troubled and disturbed by the language 0:14:49.600 --> 0:14:57.680 used toward Madam Vice President as she pursues this new 0:14:57.720 --> 0:15:02.800 position as president of this country. And my disturbance has 0:15:02.880 --> 0:15:09.600 been I've heard a number of white men call her 0:15:09.640 --> 0:15:16.520 out of her name, stupid, non intelligent. In addition to 0:15:16.600 --> 0:15:19.200 the one who shall remain nameless, I won't utter his 0:15:19.440 --> 0:15:23.440 name out of my mouth. But others have jumped. 0:15:23.160 --> 0:15:24.120 On the bandwagon. 0:15:24.720 --> 0:15:28.040 They've questioned her ability because she's not doing it the 0:15:28.040 --> 0:15:30.360 way they do it. She needs to do an interview, 0:15:30.440 --> 0:15:33.400 she needs to do this. She need you know. But 0:15:34.160 --> 0:15:38.280 I have been very disturbed by the silence of black 0:15:38.360 --> 0:15:43.640 men at the way this sister woman has been spoken 0:15:43.720 --> 0:15:44.960 about publicly. 0:15:45.760 --> 0:15:49.600 I believe for us as men see, I do my 0:15:49.800 --> 0:15:58.160 work from a place of being unapologetically pro black women. Now, 0:15:58.280 --> 0:16:01.200 if you don't understand what that me like, I can 0:16:01.280 --> 0:16:03.520 have white women that will be upset when they hear that. 0:16:03.600 --> 0:16:05.640 But the truth of the matter is when I say 0:16:05.640 --> 0:16:09.480 I'm unapologetically pro black women, that means I also care 0:16:09.520 --> 0:16:12.520 about you. But what it means is that I sent 0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:18.640 to the experience of black women, and that allows me 0:16:19.480 --> 0:16:24.320 to be in our live of all women. But if 0:16:24.360 --> 0:16:28.200 I start out by centering the experiences of white women 0:16:29.040 --> 0:16:31.400 in the country like the United States of America, which 0:16:31.440 --> 0:16:33.760 is a racist class in other forms, a group of 0:16:33.800 --> 0:16:37.560 pressing constructs, I really ever get to black women. I 0:16:37.560 --> 0:16:41.200 got to reach in too deep. So if I start 0:16:41.280 --> 0:16:44.040 with black women and work my way out, all women 0:16:44.080 --> 0:16:50.080 will benefit. I am unapologetically pro black women, and I 0:16:50.120 --> 0:16:52.400 say that proudly, and I say that out loud, and 0:16:52.440 --> 0:16:54.800 I'm not and by doing that, I'm not doing anything 0:16:54.880 --> 0:16:57.560 special because I should be that. So it's not like 0:16:57.640 --> 0:16:59.520 I'm saying that. Don't get me no pat on the 0:16:59.560 --> 0:17:02.640 back for just simply doing what I'm supposed to be doing. 0:17:03.240 --> 0:17:05.520 But I need to say it out loud for other 0:17:05.640 --> 0:17:08.800 brothers to hear it said out loud. I think the 0:17:08.960 --> 0:17:15.280 misogyny that we're not aware of that's in us also 0:17:15.359 --> 0:17:19.680 contributes to silencing us right in the face of these 0:17:19.720 --> 0:17:25.800 other men who would, dare you know, speak about Black 0:17:25.840 --> 0:17:28.919 women and the way they do for us, it almost 0:17:29.040 --> 0:17:34.200 goes as black men that we're speaking about specifically right now. 0:17:34.800 --> 0:17:38.320 For us, it almost goes over our head the fact 0:17:38.320 --> 0:17:41.679 that they're speaking about black women to a place up 0:17:41.720 --> 0:17:44.479 they're just speaking about women. I don't even know if 0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:48.840 we connect fully with the fact that they're speaking about 0:17:48.880 --> 0:17:51.560 black women, that they're speaking about women from our community. 0:17:51.600 --> 0:17:54.480 I don't even know how to what degree we connect 0:17:54.560 --> 0:17:58.040 with that, because the misogyny runs through our beings, as 0:17:58.320 --> 0:18:01.960 do minds too, all Right, I have to constantly confront it, 0:18:02.600 --> 0:18:05.840 challenge it, do some self wrapped when it comes upon me. 0:18:06.520 --> 0:18:11.760 Right now, I don't think in a male dominating, a 0:18:11.840 --> 0:18:17.240 white male dominating race construct such as the United States 0:18:17.280 --> 0:18:20.680 of America, you can't get away from this stuff. It's 0:18:20.920 --> 0:18:24.280 in us, and denying that this in us will land 0:18:24.320 --> 0:18:28.359 toward us doing more harm. I also joined that call 0:18:28.960 --> 0:18:33.239 of brothers and we raise a lot of money, and 0:18:33.280 --> 0:18:34.960 it was a lot of brothers on that course. So 0:18:34.960 --> 0:18:37.800 it's a lot of us that are really down with 0:18:37.840 --> 0:18:41.520 our sister. That's not even a question. We are down, 0:18:41.720 --> 0:18:47.160 but you're gonna always have. Unfortunately, the men who are not, 0:18:47.480 --> 0:18:52.679 and the question, the real question right for them is 0:18:52.760 --> 0:18:56.479 to really grapple with the misogyny that we're taught that's 0:18:56.520 --> 0:19:01.560 in us as men that contribute to this. But I'm 0:19:01.560 --> 0:19:03.680 going to also lift up the brothers that are all 0:19:03.720 --> 0:19:08.359 over this I was so so proud to be on 0:19:08.440 --> 0:19:13.960 it wall. But these same black men that you're speaking 0:19:14.000 --> 0:19:17.840 about would be silent if it was any woman. The 0:19:18.359 --> 0:19:22.760 challenges we're not connected to her blackness, which then tells 0:19:22.840 --> 0:19:26.440 us we should have a high level of responsibility. It's 0:19:26.480 --> 0:19:30.680 the fact that we're not connected to her blackness because 0:19:30.680 --> 0:19:33.040 this is how men talk about women in general. Now, 0:19:33.080 --> 0:19:34.600 of course they take it to a whole nother level 0:19:34.600 --> 0:19:37.600 when they're talking about black women, right, and as them 0:19:37.600 --> 0:19:40.040 talking about black women, I mean, we should be offended 0:19:40.080 --> 0:19:42.680 if they're talking about any woman. But by virtue talking 0:19:42.720 --> 0:19:45.480 about black women, it should go to another level for us. 0:19:45.560 --> 0:19:48.680 Why shouldn't it? Of course it should, but for many 0:19:48.720 --> 0:19:51.760 of us as men, it doesn't. It doesn't go to 0:19:51.840 --> 0:19:56.120 another level or responsibility or accountability. So it just says 0:19:56.160 --> 0:19:59.400 we would sit through them saying that about a white woman, 0:19:59.480 --> 0:20:02.240 will sit through them saying that about a black woman, 0:20:02.320 --> 0:20:06.760 because for us, the sexism runs deep, the male domination 0:20:06.920 --> 0:20:10.359 runs deep, and our responsibility to black women do not 0:20:10.680 --> 0:20:14.000 co opt that, and it's unfortunate and we have to 0:20:14.040 --> 0:20:21.720 be reminded about that. But I'm fully aware of what 0:20:21.760 --> 0:20:25.520 you're saying and what you're sharing, and there's a responsibility 0:20:25.520 --> 0:20:28.879 as an accountability on us as black men to understand 0:20:28.920 --> 0:20:31.000 that and to be aware of that and to teach 0:20:31.040 --> 0:20:32.679 that to our boys as well. 0:20:33.720 --> 0:20:36.320 Let me ask you this. I lived in a violent 0:20:36.480 --> 0:20:43.400 relationship for nine years. My husband was physically violent, emotionally violent, 0:20:44.040 --> 0:20:47.679 all of that, and I'll never forget one day we 0:20:47.800 --> 0:20:51.879 had this big mashup. I can't even say it was 0:20:51.920 --> 0:20:54.320 a fight because he was six four two sixty. 0:20:54.800 --> 0:20:55.800 I'm five to five. 0:20:57.680 --> 0:21:02.560 And I remember afterwards and I was going outside with 0:21:03.640 --> 0:21:08.359 my black eye covered up or whatever, and he was 0:21:08.400 --> 0:21:12.080 coming with me. We're walking out like nothing is wrong. 0:21:13.520 --> 0:21:17.520 And a neighbor who lived on the third floor came down, 0:21:18.680 --> 0:21:21.879 walked up to us. His name was mister Charlie. His 0:21:22.040 --> 0:21:26.440 wife's name was Miss Ruth. And he said to my husband, 0:21:27.320 --> 0:21:32.080 he said, mister, I'm gonna tell you this one time. 0:21:33.680 --> 0:21:37.120 If I ever hear again you put your hands on her, 0:21:37.640 --> 0:21:38.920 You're gonna have to deal with me. 0:21:40.760 --> 0:21:40.960 Now. 0:21:41.040 --> 0:21:45.200 Much to my shock and surprise, he didn't say anything. 0:21:46.480 --> 0:21:49.600 He didn't say anything. He just walked. You know, we 0:21:49.720 --> 0:21:53.480 just kept walking away. I was both scared to death 0:21:55.040 --> 0:21:59.520 and shocked. So my question is, if you are a 0:21:59.600 --> 0:22:02.879 man and you know a brother, man, whether you know 0:22:03.000 --> 0:22:07.280 him or not, your neighbor, your nephew, your brother is 0:22:07.320 --> 0:22:11.600 being violent towards a woman, what do you do? What 0:22:11.760 --> 0:22:12.159 do you do? 0:22:13.080 --> 0:22:19.280 Well, that's a great question in many cases, because your 0:22:19.359 --> 0:22:23.480 neighbor could have put himself in harm's wife right, And 0:22:23.520 --> 0:22:27.080 that's a personal choice that men make. And I'm not 0:22:27.200 --> 0:22:30.680 taking that choice off the table because we are in 0:22:30.760 --> 0:22:33.520 an epidemic of violence against women and girl. But that's 0:22:33.600 --> 0:22:37.320 a personal choice. But the truth of the matter is, 0:22:37.680 --> 0:22:40.520 and he didn't and the man who knew your husband. 0:22:40.560 --> 0:22:44.720 But because the point is, most of the time, men 0:22:44.800 --> 0:22:48.440 who are close to a man who's abusive knows he's abusive, 0:22:49.080 --> 0:22:52.920 or at least knows by his behavior that he definitely 0:22:52.920 --> 0:22:57.200 has a tendency to be abusive. And in many cases, 0:22:58.119 --> 0:23:01.280 it's not a situation where we're putting ourselves in harm's way. 0:23:01.840 --> 0:23:04.080 It could be my cousin, it could be my brother, 0:23:04.119 --> 0:23:08.000 it could be my son. Right, we know that they're 0:23:08.080 --> 0:23:11.439 abusive or have the tendency to be abusive, and we 0:23:11.720 --> 0:23:15.720 are absorbing that behavior and not challenging it. So much 0:23:15.760 --> 0:23:20.920 of that is rooted in again just doing tradition. She's 0:23:21.000 --> 0:23:26.720 his property and he can do with his property as 0:23:26.760 --> 0:23:31.760 he chooses. Right when we walk down the aisles and 0:23:31.840 --> 0:23:35.280 the person officiating the service says, who give this woman away? 0:23:35.520 --> 0:23:37.399 And first of all, you don't give nothing away and 0:23:37.480 --> 0:23:40.679 let you own it. And the dad gave her away, 0:23:40.840 --> 0:23:46.720 she is now his right to do it as he chooses. 0:23:46.960 --> 0:23:48.560 And like I said in the beginning, there wasn't a 0:23:48.600 --> 0:23:51.400 time where women were to property man. We know that's 0:23:51.440 --> 0:23:55.600 not the case, but we know it's tolerated, right, very 0:23:55.720 --> 0:23:59.520 much tolerated. And so there's a couple of things for 0:23:59.600 --> 0:24:04.040 us as men to teach that the boys right to redefined. 0:24:04.119 --> 0:24:07.560 Man who has a respects to women's property, for men 0:24:09.640 --> 0:24:13.800 who are in relationship with men who have these behaviors 0:24:14.119 --> 0:24:17.679 to challenge that, to speak to it. You know, the 0:24:17.720 --> 0:24:22.400 world I envision is a man who's assault on his wife. 0:24:23.240 --> 0:24:26.680 Ten men from the neighborhood knock on his door and say, 0:24:26.720 --> 0:24:28.960 your brother, we're here in peace. We're here and love 0:24:30.400 --> 0:24:35.000 we as men, we don't live that way. And that 0:24:35.080 --> 0:24:37.040 when he goes to work and he got the four 0:24:37.160 --> 0:24:39.840 or five guys that he plays cards with at lunchtime, 0:24:40.200 --> 0:24:42.000 they say, you know what we heard about you, when 0:24:42.000 --> 0:24:44.399 we heard about what you're doing. You know, we welcome 0:24:44.440 --> 0:24:47.320 at this card table until you change your way. When 0:24:47.320 --> 0:24:50.119 he goes to his son's little league baseball game, the 0:24:50.200 --> 0:24:52.000 coach says, your son is welcome here. 0:24:52.080 --> 0:24:52.320 Man. 0:24:52.640 --> 0:24:55.320 We love your son, but I'm not dealing with you 0:24:55.440 --> 0:25:01.400 until you change your way. That's when we say that men, 0:25:01.920 --> 0:25:04.560 that women can end this on their own. They would 0:25:04.560 --> 0:25:07.480 have already. When we say it's the number one call 0:25:07.640 --> 0:25:10.639 for the last thirty years for the police departments, that 0:25:10.800 --> 0:25:14.679 simply means a criminal justice response is not going to 0:25:14.800 --> 0:25:17.880 change this what's going to change this is when we 0:25:18.080 --> 0:25:23.040 collectively as men say we've had enough, right, that's what's 0:25:23.080 --> 0:25:26.000 going to change. This is on our shoulders, it's on 0:25:26.080 --> 0:25:29.520 our watch right. That's what's going to change when we 0:25:29.640 --> 0:25:32.439 collectively as men say we'll no longer going to tolerate this. 0:25:32.760 --> 0:25:35.919 And it's not about violence. It's not using violence to 0:25:36.080 --> 0:25:39.800 end violence. It's about our relationship with each other as men. 0:25:40.760 --> 0:25:44.720 We make sure we tell each other the stories that 0:25:44.880 --> 0:25:50.280 are going to benefit maintaining this collective socialization. Because, for example, 0:25:50.760 --> 0:25:55.280 you hear every man has heard a story that if 0:25:55.320 --> 0:25:58.080 you get involved, she's going to jump on you too, 0:25:58.480 --> 0:26:01.800