Speaker 1: I am a Yamla. I've been very open about the
Speaker 1: fact that I was not always good at making my
Speaker 1: relationships work. I have been divorced three times, twice from
Speaker 1: the same person. In other words, I have seen a
Speaker 1: lot and failed a lot in my relationships. So I
Speaker 1: am here to share with you what I learned along
Speaker 1: the way, because I did take copious notes. Welcome to
Speaker 1: the R Spot, a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership
Speaker 1: with iHeartRadio. Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome to the R Spot.
Speaker 1: If you were with us last week, you heard me
Speaker 1: and my guest, Tony Porter, an author, a activist, an
Speaker 1: educator who works toward eliminating a racial and gender inequality.
Speaker 1: Tony is the author of Breaking out of the man Box.
Speaker 1: He's talking about reimagining manhood and eliminating the impact of
Speaker 1: the collective socialization of men that have put them on
Speaker 1: what he calls remote control manhood. So we are going
Speaker 1: to continue that conversation today because it is just too
Speaker 1: good to cut out anything. I want you to hear
Speaker 1: it all, and here we go. I want to ask
Speaker 1: you some questions that I get.
Speaker 2: All of the time.
Speaker 1: I get all of the time from women and so
Speaker 1: that we can hear it from you, so that we
Speaker 1: have a a better way of dealing with the men
Speaker 1: in our lives and be a better way of raising
Speaker 1: our sons. That's my concern, because we're raising future husband's
Speaker 1: future fathers. Okay, here's a question that I get all
Speaker 1: of the time. He doesn't communicate. What can I do
Speaker 1: to help him communicate? He doesn't communicate? So we understand
Speaker 1: the collective socialization. We understand the man's fear of being
Speaker 1: vulnerable or looking weak. We understand his resistance to asking
Speaker 1: for help. But as a woman with a man, I
Speaker 1: love my boo. He's here, he's you know, the father, mito. Whatever,
Speaker 1: how do I support assists?
Speaker 2: What do I do I think understanding the collective socialization
Speaker 2: and the role that plays in the lack of communication
Speaker 2: that we bring forward as men, makes it easy or
Speaker 2: what helps us to work with man in a way
Speaker 2: that makes sense or make that way that's productive, because
Speaker 2: we're not just these guys that don't you know, to
Speaker 2: just say, you know, I can't get this guy to talk.
Speaker 2: I can't get him to communicate with me. If we
Speaker 2: can think differently more about how we have been socialized,
Speaker 2: not to communicate right and to use that to help
Speaker 2: help you in the process of getting him to open up.
Speaker 2: So particularly, let me start with boys. Women do this
Speaker 2: with boys better than men do, by the way, because men,
Speaker 2: again it is not just about not a the ability
Speaker 2: to ask for help, we don't like to offer it.
Speaker 2: So women will teach their sons to communicate in a
Speaker 2: way that men don't, and actually, through that, boys will
Speaker 2: when they do want to talk, or men, when they
Speaker 2: do want to talk, they're going to talk to a
Speaker 2: women before they're going to talk to another man, because
Speaker 2: that's who was in their lives to talk with when
Speaker 2: they were boys. Men we disconnect from each other when
Speaker 2: it comes to that level of intimacy. Women stay at
Speaker 2: the table. But for me, it was teaching my sons.
Speaker 2: Just telling me I'm good, everything's cool, and I'm good
Speaker 2: wasn't enough. We had to have a conversation, right, to
Speaker 2: teach them to talk about their feelings, to teach them
Speaker 2: to have conversation that include how they feel. That that's
Speaker 2: a process, ongoing process. But let's say you get with
Speaker 2: a man and he ain't there yet, he didn't have
Speaker 2: that teaching or that experience, and now you're trying to
Speaker 2: jumpstart this thing. I think you gotta have patience, gotta
Speaker 2: have tolerance. Don't take it personal. This is not in
Speaker 2: a personal saut on you. Right, there's a baby step process, right,
Speaker 2: it could be very well could be a babyst process.
Speaker 2: It could be a seize the moment when he shows
Speaker 2: up in that way. But when you seize the moment,
Speaker 2: don't overwhelm him, right, Don't overwhelm them when the moment's dead, right,
Speaker 2: and give them, give them some room just to let
Speaker 2: it out, to say what it is he wants to say,
Speaker 2: without being bombarded with a thousand questions. Right, give him
Speaker 2: the space to kind of guide the ship a little bit.
Speaker 2: And then every now and then you can turn it somewhat.
Speaker 2: But give him the room to kind of guide it
Speaker 2: a little bit. Right. Uh, those are the kind of
Speaker 2: factcause yeah, yeah, because I know, particularly when you get
Speaker 2: excited and you know, because you see an opening or whatever,
Speaker 2: or even when you're mad, right, when you're when you're
Speaker 2: upset with him, that's when it really happens more, and
Speaker 2: not when you're upset with him. I think as men, though,
Speaker 2: we need to be held accountable. It's not about letting
Speaker 2: us off the hook. Either there's a level of accountability,
Speaker 2: the level of maturity, if he has a friend. Far
Speaker 2: too often, like we're blessed as men if we got
Speaker 2: as as young members say that ride or die. We're
Speaker 2: blessed if we have that, because we end relationships so
Speaker 2: easily as man. It's not just what women is with anybody, right,
Speaker 2: and women have lifelong relationships much more than we do
Speaker 2: as men. That y'all take hand of each other in
Speaker 2: a way that we don't collectively as as as men.
Speaker 2: But if he happens to have that person in his
Speaker 2: life and that person is a good person, that kind,
Speaker 2: if she can rely on that person and ask to
Speaker 2: build that kind of community around that man, it's best
Speaker 2: served obviously. Well, success is greater when we can teach
Speaker 2: theself boys as they grow into being men. But we
Speaker 2: already have men now that need a hand here. So
Speaker 2: my best advice is tolerance, patience, right, don't overwhelm, but
Speaker 2: look for yours and opportunities. And when he's dumping, let
Speaker 2: that boy dunk right, and then figure out how to
Speaker 2: be there with him. Put your arm around him, give
Speaker 2: him a big kiss, something that tells him I can
Speaker 2: come back and dump again tomorrow. And also it's important
Speaker 2: for women to be hay with men sharing their feelings
Speaker 2: and emotions because again, the same lessons that we've been
Speaker 2: taught as it relates to what it means to be
Speaker 2: a man, women have been taught the same thing. So
Speaker 2: a lot of women don't want that man sharing a
Speaker 2: lot of feelings a lot of emotions that you know,
Speaker 2: they believe that that's my space to do that that
Speaker 2: ain't for him. But what I'm saying is, if your
Speaker 2: man is not sharing his feelings and emotions, it's not
Speaker 2: like he's not stuffing them away. And when he stuffs
Speaker 2: him away, they come out sideways because they're coming out
Speaker 2: somewhere another. You know, there was a time, and that
Speaker 2: was a time. I just haven't had the opportunity of sometime.
Speaker 2: And I'm in front of a room, say a couple
Speaker 2: of hundred people, and I would ask the folks in
Speaker 2: the room, raise your hand. If you've never seen your
Speaker 2: father cry. Probably about a third of folks in the
Speaker 2: room hand go up, and I'll say keep your hand up.
Speaker 2: And those of you who only seen your dad or
Speaker 2: father figure cry once, please raise your hand. Between once
Speaker 2: and never, two thirds of the room easily, easily two
Speaker 2: thirds of the room has their hand up. That's killing
Speaker 2: us as men, right, that's killing us as men. So
Speaker 2: it's really really important that we raise our boys to
Speaker 2: learn and be able to share who they are emotionally,
Speaker 2: and we cultivate that with our men as well. And
Speaker 2: a lot of it is on the shoulders at this
Speaker 2: particular time, a lot of it is, unfortunately on the
Speaker 2: shoulders of women.
Speaker 1: I'm going to recap those notes. I want to get
Speaker 1: a couple of more of these questions. And here's the
Speaker 1: other thing. Let me just say this. When I work
Speaker 1: with men, I give them a list of feelings.
Speaker 3: I've got a very extensive I got a list, I
Speaker 3: got a positive list, I got a negative list. And
Speaker 3: because so many men don't have the vocabulary, their emotional
Speaker 3: library is good, bad, right, wrong, angry, happy. They don't
Speaker 3: know anxiety, they don't know disappointment, they don't know frustration,
Speaker 3: they don't know melancholic.
Speaker 1: So I give them a list and I say, okay,
Speaker 1: use it, and they use it.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: So here's another question I get asked by women all
Speaker 1: of the time. Let mean, this is how they say it.
Speaker 1: They'll give me a scenario and I say, okay, well
Speaker 1: that's disrespectful. They'll say, well, how come he can disrespect me,
Speaker 1: I can't disrespect them.
Speaker 2: It makes sense. And we're back to communication, right and
Speaker 2: how we communicate, how we do or don't communicate with
Speaker 2: each other. And you're right, my thoughts are very important
Speaker 2: to me for women or feelings are very important to her.
Speaker 2: And then how do we in a very mature way
Speaker 2: find that sweet spot in how we negotiate That is important.
Speaker 2: Maturity is very very important in respect to what we're
Speaker 2: talking about. Humility is very important, and respect we're talking
Speaker 2: about the ability to be humble and remain teachable. It
Speaker 2: is very important to what we're talking about. Understanding issues
Speaker 2: of gender as it relates to equity and equality, it's
Speaker 2: very very important, I think for men to understand understand that, understand,
Speaker 2: like I said, those three aspects of men with less
Speaker 2: value plus property plus objectification, because in those experiences with
Speaker 2: women that's in there for us. We need to understand
Speaker 2: what their experience has been like being victimized by that,
Speaker 2: and what our experience has been like not only being
Speaker 2: perpetrators of that, but many of us are not in
Speaker 2: an overt way but with benefactors of it regards to
Speaker 2: understand to that, I think it's just really important for
Speaker 2: us as men to spend time really exploring healthy manhood.
Speaker 2: And if we explore that, you know, what it means
Speaker 2: to be a healthy man. That means you're asking for help,
Speaker 2: you're offering help, you're accepting help. It means that you're
Speaker 2: willing to share your feelings and emotions openly. It means
Speaker 2: that you're willing to be vulnerable. It means that you're
Speaker 2: willing to work toward being your authentic self. It means
Speaker 2: that you're taking an interest in the experience of women
Speaker 2: and girls in sexual conquests. Is not a goal, you know,
Speaker 2: all of this encompasses being healthy men. I'm not here
Speaker 2: to be an authority in any sense of the word
Speaker 2: pretty much or nothing, but definitely not on the experience
Speaker 2: of women. But I do know and truly believe if
Speaker 2: we accompl some of the things that we're talking about
Speaker 2: as men, you know, and various times in my life
Speaker 2: doing men's groups, we would talk about the reality that
Speaker 2: men and women may come to a situation or come
Speaker 2: into a situation where we both have like let's say,
Speaker 2: a laundry list of issues. I still today believe that
Speaker 2: if we as men work on our issues alone, just
Speaker 2: work on ours. But in that relationship with her, her
Speaker 2: laundry list also begins to shrink as we're working on ours,
Speaker 2: because there are things on our lists, you know, that
Speaker 2: are really impacting her, that's contributing to her list. We
Speaker 2: just work on our list long, Let's just work on
Speaker 2: our stuff alone, right, I believe in a male dominating
Speaker 2: society which we still live in, her laundry list begins
Speaker 2: to shrink, right, But there are many things on her
Speaker 2: list that has come by the way of, you know,
Speaker 2: the trauma that she's experienced at the hands of men,
Speaker 2: and our level of maturity to be in that space
Speaker 2: and understand that and what we then take personal and
Speaker 2: what we don't. That's the work of men, you know.
Speaker 2: And I really believe that when men, you know, join
Speaker 2: on with other men, create space, have these kinds of
Speaker 2: conversations that you and I having today with the battles
Speaker 2: for it, with the better for it. And I'm also
Speaker 2: going to say, you know, most of the spaces that
Speaker 2: myself the other men of our organizations get to speak
Speaker 2: to men, I would say probably still seven out of
Speaker 2: ten times is women organizing the event or the activity
Speaker 2: for us to have an opportunity to speak to men? Right?
Speaker 2: One of when you do prevention work, you know, it
Speaker 2: was hard to measure. One of my own personal measurements
Speaker 2: is when we at least get to fifty to fifty
Speaker 2: fifty percent of the time we're invited by men and
Speaker 2: fifty percent of the time we're invited by women. And
Speaker 2: we're not there yet.
Speaker 1: And we'll talk about that when we come back. Welcome
Speaker 1: back to the rspot. I want to raise this with
Speaker 1: you because I got you hearing you from New York,
Speaker 1: so I know we think kind of a like. I
Speaker 1: have been very, very troubled and disturbed by the language
Speaker 1: used toward Madam Vice President as she pursues this new
Speaker 1: position as president of this country. And my disturbance has
Speaker 1: been I've heard a number of white men call her
Speaker 1: out of her name, stupid, non intelligent. In addition to
Speaker 1: the one who shall remain nameless, I won't utter his
Speaker 1: name out of my mouth. But others have jumped.
Speaker 2: On the bandwagon.
Speaker 1: They've questioned her ability because she's not doing it the
Speaker 1: way they do it. She needs to do an interview,
Speaker 1: she needs to do this. She need you know. But
Speaker 1: I have been very disturbed by the silence of black
Speaker 1: men at the way this sister woman has been spoken
Speaker 1: about publicly.
Speaker 2: I believe for us as men see, I do my
Speaker 2: work from a place of being unapologetically pro black women. Now,
Speaker 2: if you don't understand what that me like, I can
Speaker 2: have white women that will be upset when they hear that.
Speaker 2: But the truth of the matter is when I say
Speaker 2: I'm unapologetically pro black women, that means I also care
Speaker 2: about you. But what it means is that I sent
Speaker 2: to the experience of black women, and that allows me
Speaker 2: to be in our live of all women. But if
Speaker 2: I start out by centering the experiences of white women
Speaker 2: in the country like the United States of America, which
Speaker 2: is a racist class in other forms, a group of
Speaker 2: pressing constructs, I really ever get to black women. I
Speaker 2: got to reach in too deep. So if I start
Speaker 2: with black women and work my way out, all women
Speaker 2: will benefit. I am unapologetically pro black women, and I
Speaker 2: say that proudly, and I say that out loud, and
Speaker 2: I'm not and by doing that, I'm not doing anything
Speaker 2: special because I should be that. So it's not like
Speaker 2: I'm saying that. Don't get me no pat on the
Speaker 2: back for just simply doing what I'm supposed to be doing.
Speaker 2: But I need to say it out loud for other
Speaker 2: brothers to hear it said out loud. I think the
Speaker 2: misogyny that we're not aware of that's in us also
Speaker 2: contributes to silencing us right in the face of these
Speaker 2: other men who would, dare you know, speak about Black
Speaker 2: women and the way they do for us, it almost
Speaker 2: goes as black men that we're speaking about specifically right now.
Speaker 2: For us, it almost goes over our head the fact
Speaker 2: that they're speaking about black women to a place up
Speaker 2: they're just speaking about women. I don't even know if
Speaker 2: we connect fully with the fact that they're speaking about
Speaker 2: black women, that they're speaking about women from our community.
Speaker 2: I don't even know how to what degree we connect
Speaker 2: with that, because the misogyny runs through our beings, as
Speaker 2: do minds too, all Right, I have to constantly confront it,
Speaker 2: challenge it, do some self wrapped when it comes upon me.
Speaker 2: Right now, I don't think in a male dominating, a
Speaker 2: white male dominating race construct such as the United States
Speaker 2: of America, you can't get away from this stuff. It's
Speaker 2: in us, and denying that this in us will land
Speaker 2: toward us doing more harm. I also joined that call
Speaker 2: of brothers and we raise a lot of money, and
Speaker 2: it was a lot of brothers on that course. So
Speaker 2: it's a lot of us that are really down with
Speaker 2: our sister. That's not even a question. We are down,
Speaker 2: but you're gonna always have. Unfortunately, the men who are not,
Speaker 2: and the question, the real question right for them is
Speaker 2: to really grapple with the misogyny that we're taught that's
Speaker 2: in us as men that contribute to this. But I'm
Speaker 2: going to also lift up the brothers that are all
Speaker 2: over this I was so so proud to be on
Speaker 2: it wall. But these same black men that you're speaking
Speaker 2: about would be silent if it was any woman. The
Speaker 2: challenges we're not connected to her blackness, which then tells
Speaker 2: us we should have a high level of responsibility. It's
Speaker 2: the fact that we're not connected to her blackness because
Speaker 2: this is how men talk about women in general. Now,
Speaker 2: of course they take it to a whole nother level
Speaker 2: when they're talking about black women, right, and as them
Speaker 2: talking about black women, I mean, we should be offended
Speaker 2: if they're talking about any woman. But by virtue talking
Speaker 2: about black women, it should go to another level for us.
Speaker 2: Why shouldn't it? Of course it should, but for many
Speaker 2: of us as men, it doesn't. It doesn't go to
Speaker 2: another level or responsibility or accountability. So it just says
Speaker 2: we would sit through them saying that about a white woman,
Speaker 2: will sit through them saying that about a black woman,
Speaker 2: because for us, the sexism runs deep, the male domination
Speaker 2: runs deep, and our responsibility to black women do not
Speaker 2: co opt that, and it's unfortunate and we have to
Speaker 2: be reminded about that. But I'm fully aware of what
Speaker 2: you're saying and what you're sharing, and there's a responsibility
Speaker 2: as an accountability on us as black men to understand
Speaker 2: that and to be aware of that and to teach
Speaker 2: that to our boys as well.
Speaker 1: Let me ask you this. I lived in a violent
Speaker 1: relationship for nine years. My husband was physically violent, emotionally violent,
Speaker 1: all of that, and I'll never forget one day we
Speaker 1: had this big mashup. I can't even say it was
Speaker 1: a fight because he was six four two sixty.
Speaker 2: I'm five to five.
Speaker 1: And I remember afterwards and I was going outside with
Speaker 1: my black eye covered up or whatever, and he was
Speaker 1: coming with me. We're walking out like nothing is wrong.
Speaker 1: And a neighbor who lived on the third floor came down,
Speaker 1: walked up to us. His name was mister Charlie. His
Speaker 1: wife's name was Miss Ruth. And he said to my husband,
Speaker 1: he said, mister, I'm gonna tell you this one time.
Speaker 1: If I ever hear again you put your hands on her,
Speaker 1: You're gonna have to deal with me.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: Much to my shock and surprise, he didn't say anything.
Speaker 1: He didn't say anything. He just walked. You know, we
Speaker 1: just kept walking away. I was both scared to death
Speaker 1: and shocked. So my question is, if you are a
Speaker 1: man and you know a brother, man, whether you know
Speaker 1: him or not, your neighbor, your nephew, your brother is
Speaker 1: being violent towards a woman, what do you do? What
Speaker 1: do you do?
Speaker 2: Well, that's a great question in many cases, because your
Speaker 2: neighbor could have put himself in harm's wife right, And
Speaker 2: that's a personal choice that men make. And I'm not
Speaker 2: taking that choice off the table because we are in
Speaker 2: an epidemic of violence against women and girl. But that's
Speaker 2: a personal choice. But the truth of the matter is,
Speaker 2: and he didn't and the man who knew your husband.
Speaker 2: But because the point is, most of the time, men
Speaker 2: who are close to a man who's abusive knows he's abusive,
Speaker 2: or at least knows by his behavior that he definitely
Speaker 2: has a tendency to be abusive. And in many cases,
Speaker 2: it's not a situation where we're putting ourselves in harm's way.
Speaker 2: It could be my cousin, it could be my brother,
Speaker 2: it could be my son. Right, we know that they're
Speaker 2: abusive or have the tendency to be abusive, and we
Speaker 2: are absorbing that behavior and not challenging it. So much
Speaker 2: of that is rooted in again just doing tradition. She's
Speaker 2: his property and he can do with his property as
Speaker 2: he chooses. Right when we walk down the aisles and
Speaker 2: the person officiating the service says, who give this woman away?
Speaker 2: And first of all, you don't give nothing away and
Speaker 2: let you own it. And the dad gave her away,
Speaker 2: she is now his right to do it as he chooses.
Speaker 2: And like I said in the beginning, there wasn't a
Speaker 2: time where women were to property man. We know that's
Speaker 2: not the case, but we know it's tolerated, right, very
Speaker 2: much tolerated. And so there's a couple of things for
Speaker 2: us as men to teach that the boys right to redefined.
Speaker 2: Man who has a respects to women's property, for men
Speaker 2: who are in relationship with men who have these behaviors
Speaker 2: to challenge that, to speak to it. You know, the
Speaker 2: world I envision is a man who's assault on his wife.
Speaker 2: Ten men from the neighborhood knock on his door and say,
Speaker 2: your brother, we're here in peace. We're here and love
Speaker 2: we as men, we don't live that way. And that
Speaker 2: when he goes to work and he got the four
Speaker 2: or five guys that he plays cards with at lunchtime,
Speaker 2: they say, you know what we heard about you, when
Speaker 2: we heard about what you're doing. You know, we welcome
Speaker 2: at this card table until you change your way. When
Speaker 2: he goes to his son's little league baseball game, the
Speaker 2: coach says, your son is welcome here.
Speaker 1: Man.
Speaker 2: We love your son, but I'm not dealing with you
Speaker 2: until you change your way. That's when we say that men,
Speaker 2: that women can end this on their own. They would
Speaker 2: have already. When we say it's the number one call
Speaker 2: for the last thirty years for the police departments, that
Speaker 2: simply means a criminal justice response is not going to
Speaker 2: change this what's going to change this is when we
Speaker 2: collectively as men say we've had enough, right, that's what's
Speaker 2: going to change. This is on our shoulders, it's on
Speaker 2: our watch right. That's what's going to change when we
Speaker 2: collectively as men say we'll no longer going to tolerate this.
Speaker 2: And it's not about violence. It's not using violence to
Speaker 2: end violence. It's about our relationship with each other as men.
Speaker 2: We make sure we tell each other the stories that
Speaker 2: are going to benefit maintaining this collective socialization. Because, for example,
Speaker 2: you hear every man has heard a story that if
Speaker 2: you get involved, she's going to jump on you too,
Speaker 2: right out. And if you ask men, have you ever
Speaker 2: experienced that? Most men say no, But I heard about
Speaker 2: it right, that if something's going down and I get involved,
Speaker 2: she's gonna jump on me too. Now that's not to
Speaker 2: say it's never happened, right, because it has happened. But
Speaker 2: the reason she jumped and you were defending her and
Speaker 2: she jumped on you also because she knows that she's
Speaker 2: gonna hold her responsible for you correcting his behavior. Right,
Speaker 2: So if I can jump on you or yell also
Speaker 2: tell you to mind your business, that will lessen the
Speaker 2: assault I'm going to experience when I get home. We're
Speaker 2: gonna still beat me up when I get home. You're
Speaker 2: gonna say I was looking at you, you were looking
Speaker 2: at me. Maybe I like this, dude, Do you really
Speaker 2: know that guy from somewhere? Because why else would he
Speaker 2: be in our business? All that's going to be on
Speaker 2: the table when she gets home. But at least by
Speaker 2: yelling at you and curse it at you, except you're
Speaker 2: telling you to mind your business whatever, whatever, whatever, that's
Speaker 2: gonna lessen the assault. And as men for us, that
Speaker 2: just simply tells us she likes getting to beat So
Speaker 2: we just now we have the greenlight just in all
Speaker 2: situations mind our business. Right. So it's just really important
Speaker 2: for men to have these conversations to educate ourselves, get
Speaker 2: off of remote control and stop doing tradition.
Speaker 1: We'll talk about that right after this break. Welcome back
Speaker 1: to the our spot. Let's get back to the conversation. Wow, wow, wow, Tony,
Speaker 1: you have given us just I'm just I got my
Speaker 1: little paper. I'm just going crazy. Thank you for helping
Speaker 1: us me and anyone listening. This collective socialization. I've never
Speaker 1: heard it crystallized like that. That men are taught women
Speaker 1: are of less value, that they're objectified, they become the
Speaker 1: property of men, which then humanizes now and that dehumanization
Speaker 1: often leads to the violence against women. As women, as
Speaker 1: we are dealing with our men, understand that that collective
Speaker 1: socialization has put them in a box of domination, power control,
Speaker 1: also where they don't ask for help, don't offer help,
Speaker 1: and don't accept help, which then leads to all manner
Speaker 1: of mental, emotional, and then physical malady. I say, I
Speaker 1: say it's arrested development because men are not willing to
Speaker 1: be vulnerable or to to you know, acknowledge fears and weaknesses.
Speaker 1: They have a rested development. As women, you're saying, when
Speaker 1: we want to get into or support our men in
Speaker 1: becoming a reimagined version of manhood, that we've got to
Speaker 1: be patient. You said that that his disconnect or his
Speaker 1: withholding withdrawing is not personal. You said, don't overwhelm him
Speaker 1: with questions. If he's speaking or sharing or dumping, don't
Speaker 1: overwhelm him. Be grateful for the fact that he's talking
Speaker 1: and that he can come back again because maybe now
Speaker 1: he experiences you as a safe space. Don't make him wrong.
Speaker 1: I added that you didn't say that, but I'm saying that.
Speaker 1: Don't make it wrong. Let us learn to respect his
Speaker 1: thinking and not be offended that he doesn't understand our
Speaker 1: feelings because very often his emotional library, his language, his
Speaker 1: voice for sharing that isn't there.
Speaker 2: Let me just add one thing to that piece. Then
Speaker 2: I don't want the same time to it look to
Speaker 2: it to appeal or look like or the experience to
Speaker 2: be that. We still don't need to be held accountable
Speaker 2: and we've wrong, and that's part of this conversation. We
Speaker 2: still need to be accountable is the negotiation of it,
Speaker 2: all right, I'm not taking accountability off the table right
Speaker 2: where we need to be accountable as men. We need
Speaker 2: to be accountable. At a call to men, we talk
Speaker 2: about reaching in and grabbing the hearts of men, ohn right,
Speaker 2: and that we can have accountable conversations that can also
Speaker 2: be loving and kind and respectful. And that's how we
Speaker 2: go about engaging men. It's very important to us that
Speaker 2: whether we have whole day or one hour or thirty minutes,
Speaker 2: that men leave our presence thinking and feeling differently than
Speaker 2: they did when they entered. And that means grabbing the
Speaker 2: hearts of men. But we know that it could be
Speaker 2: a long journey from the head to the heart with
Speaker 2: a lot of roadblocks and detours and obstacles, and we
Speaker 2: know that to be true, right, But that's the work,
Speaker 2: that's where change happens for us is at the heart
Speaker 2: is about transformation, not transaction. Men live in transactions, but
Speaker 2: here women do transformation much better. But that's what we're
Speaker 2: talking about here, about transformation. How do you help him
Speaker 2: in that space of transformation?
Speaker 1: Tony Parter, author, educator, activists committed to creating gender and
Speaker 1: racial equality, committed to reimagining manhood. What's the final call
Speaker 1: you'd like to put out to men right here? That's
Speaker 1: my first question. My second question is how can I
Speaker 1: support you so?
Speaker 2: And I appreciate that, and I can answer both of
Speaker 2: those questions in one voice as in the name of
Speaker 2: a call to men. We want men to join us.
Speaker 2: We want men to join this effort, to join this movement,
Speaker 2: to become part of solution and ending this epidemic of
Speaker 2: violence against women and girls. And we are not just
Speaker 2: ending in epidemical violence against women and girls, also promoting healthy,
Speaker 2: respectful manhood. Remember that this collective socialization, also known as
Speaker 2: the manbox is not only forcing epidemical violence against women
Speaker 2: and girls, it's killing us as men too. So I
Speaker 2: want to ask men, you know, just reach out to us.
Speaker 2: We want everything social media call to men. Our website
Speaker 2: is to call Themen dot org. There's tons of information there.
Speaker 2: It's all free right, you can download it, you can
Speaker 2: make use of it is there for you to take
Speaker 2: and become part of the solution. And my dear sister,
Speaker 2: you're doing that work right now by having me on
Speaker 2: your show and then introducing me to your audience of
Speaker 2: follow us. Is no more than that, can we ask?
Speaker 2: So sisters and sisters been doing it all along. They've
Speaker 2: been at the forefront of a call to men. When
Speaker 2: you think about how organization you might think as all
Speaker 2: men know is half men and half women, and women
Speaker 2: are very much in leadership at a call to men
Speaker 2: and helping the guide this process. And so we appreciate
Speaker 2: you and your contribution to it as well. Have always
Speaker 2: been a big fan of yours and uh so just
Speaker 2: an on and the privilege to be in your presence
Speaker 2: and have this opportunity to chat with you.
Speaker 1: Thank you. I'm going to send them a Call to
Speaker 1: Men dot org A call to men dot org. If
Speaker 1: you are a mother, if you are a man, if
Speaker 1: your father, let's reimagine manhood, eliminate remote control manhood. And
Speaker 1: my big concern is it's killing men. You know the
Speaker 1: number instances of heart disease, heart attack, suicide, prostate cancer,
Speaker 1: it's raising and I know nothing happens in a body
Speaker 1: that doesn't first happen in the mind and heart. Thank
Speaker 1: you for being with me, Tony Porter. If you're a mother,
Speaker 1: if your sister, if you're a wife, go to the website,
Speaker 1: find out what you need and make sure that all
Speaker 1: the men in your life that they have access to it,
Speaker 1: because we've got to get them in the space. We've
Speaker 1: got to get them in the space so that we
Speaker 1: don't lose them and that we can begin to neutralize
Speaker 1: this collective socialization. I hope you got some notes. I
Speaker 1: hope that you heard something. I hope that you listen
Speaker 1: again and again. I hope that you let your sister
Speaker 1: friends and your brother friends hear this because here on
Speaker 1: the our spot, we are about creating better relationships. So
Speaker 1: I'll be back next week. In the meantime, I want
Speaker 1: you to stay in peace and not in pieces.
Speaker 4: Bye.
Speaker 1: The r Spot is a production of Shondaland Audio in
Speaker 1: partnership with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit
Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
Speaker 1: your favorite shows.