1 00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:04,600 Speaker 1: I am a Yamla. I've been very open about the 2 00:00:04,680 --> 00:00:07,720 Speaker 1: fact that I was not always good at making my 3 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:12,040 Speaker 1: relationships work. I have been divorced three times, twice from 4 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:15,000 Speaker 1: the same person. In other words, I have seen a 5 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:19,640 Speaker 1: lot and failed a lot in my relationships. So I 6 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:23,040 Speaker 1: am here to share with you what I learned along 7 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:26,760 Speaker 1: the way, because I did take copious notes. Welcome to 8 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 1: the R Spot, a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership 9 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:44,320 Speaker 1: with iHeartRadio. Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome to the R Spot. 10 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:47,760 Speaker 1: If you were with us last week, you heard me 11 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:52,920 Speaker 1: and my guest, Tony Porter, an author, a activist, an 12 00:00:53,080 --> 00:01:00,320 Speaker 1: educator who works toward eliminating a racial and gender inequality. 13 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 1: Tony is the author of Breaking out of the man Box. 14 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 1: He's talking about reimagining manhood and eliminating the impact of 15 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:16,319 Speaker 1: the collective socialization of men that have put them on 16 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:20,320 Speaker 1: what he calls remote control manhood. So we are going 17 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 1: to continue that conversation today because it is just too 18 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:26,679 Speaker 1: good to cut out anything. I want you to hear 19 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:31,080 Speaker 1: it all, and here we go. I want to ask 20 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 1: you some questions that I get. 21 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 2: All of the time. 22 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:38,039 Speaker 1: I get all of the time from women and so 23 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 1: that we can hear it from you, so that we 24 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:44,720 Speaker 1: have a a better way of dealing with the men 25 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:49,279 Speaker 1: in our lives and be a better way of raising 26 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 1: our sons. That's my concern, because we're raising future husband's 27 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 1: future fathers. Okay, here's a question that I get all 28 00:01:57,160 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 1: of the time. He doesn't communicate. What can I do 29 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:05,800 Speaker 1: to help him communicate? He doesn't communicate? So we understand 30 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:09,560 Speaker 1: the collective socialization. We understand the man's fear of being 31 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 1: vulnerable or looking weak. We understand his resistance to asking 32 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 1: for help. But as a woman with a man, I 33 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:20,079 Speaker 1: love my boo. He's here, he's you know, the father, mito. Whatever, 34 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 1: how do I support assists? 35 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:29,360 Speaker 2: What do I do I think understanding the collective socialization 36 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:32,640 Speaker 2: and the role that plays in the lack of communication 37 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 2: that we bring forward as men, makes it easy or 38 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 2: what helps us to work with man in a way 39 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 2: that makes sense or make that way that's productive, because 40 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 2: we're not just these guys that don't you know, to 41 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:48,520 Speaker 2: just say, you know, I can't get this guy to talk. 42 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:51,520 Speaker 2: I can't get him to communicate with me. If we 43 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:55,240 Speaker 2: can think differently more about how we have been socialized, 44 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:59,960 Speaker 2: not to communicate right and to use that to help 45 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:05,919 Speaker 2: help you in the process of getting him to open up. 46 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 2: So particularly, let me start with boys. Women do this 47 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:12,239 Speaker 2: with boys better than men do, by the way, because men, 48 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:14,799 Speaker 2: again it is not just about not a the ability 49 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 2: to ask for help, we don't like to offer it. 50 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:20,960 Speaker 2: So women will teach their sons to communicate in a 51 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 2: way that men don't, and actually, through that, boys will 52 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 2: when they do want to talk, or men, when they 53 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:30,639 Speaker 2: do want to talk, they're going to talk to a 54 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:33,760 Speaker 2: women before they're going to talk to another man, because 55 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 2: that's who was in their lives to talk with when 56 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 2: they were boys. Men we disconnect from each other when 57 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 2: it comes to that level of intimacy. Women stay at 58 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:46,840 Speaker 2: the table. But for me, it was teaching my sons. 59 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 2: Just telling me I'm good, everything's cool, and I'm good 60 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:55,120 Speaker 2: wasn't enough. We had to have a conversation, right, to 61 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 2: teach them to talk about their feelings, to teach them 62 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 2: to have conversation that include how they feel. That that's 63 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 2: a process, ongoing process. But let's say you get with 64 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 2: a man and he ain't there yet, he didn't have 65 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 2: that teaching or that experience, and now you're trying to 66 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:14,360 Speaker 2: jumpstart this thing. I think you gotta have patience, gotta 67 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 2: have tolerance. Don't take it personal. This is not in 68 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:25,120 Speaker 2: a personal saut on you. Right, there's a baby step process, right, 69 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:27,680 Speaker 2: it could be very well could be a babyst process. 70 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:30,679 Speaker 2: It could be a seize the moment when he shows 71 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 2: up in that way. But when you seize the moment, 72 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:39,360 Speaker 2: don't overwhelm him, right, Don't overwhelm them when the moment's dead, right, 73 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:41,960 Speaker 2: and give them, give them some room just to let 74 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:44,119 Speaker 2: it out, to say what it is he wants to say, 75 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:49,039 Speaker 2: without being bombarded with a thousand questions. Right, give him 76 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 2: the space to kind of guide the ship a little bit. 77 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:56,280 Speaker 2: And then every now and then you can turn it somewhat. 78 00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 2: But give him the room to kind of guide it 79 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 2: a little bit. Right. Uh, those are the kind of 80 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 2: factcause yeah, yeah, because I know, particularly when you get 81 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:10,600 Speaker 2: excited and you know, because you see an opening or whatever, 82 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:12,920 Speaker 2: or even when you're mad, right, when you're when you're 83 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:16,479 Speaker 2: upset with him, that's when it really happens more, and 84 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 2: not when you're upset with him. I think as men, though, 85 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 2: we need to be held accountable. It's not about letting 86 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:26,600 Speaker 2: us off the hook. Either there's a level of accountability, 87 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 2: the level of maturity, if he has a friend. Far 88 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 2: too often, like we're blessed as men if we got 89 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 2: as as young members say that ride or die. We're 90 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 2: blessed if we have that, because we end relationships so 91 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:46,839 Speaker 2: easily as man. It's not just what women is with anybody, right, 92 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 2: and women have lifelong relationships much more than we do 93 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 2: as men. That y'all take hand of each other in 94 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:58,599 Speaker 2: a way that we don't collectively as as as men. 95 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 2: But if he happens to have that person in his 96 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 2: life and that person is a good person, that kind, 97 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:08,880 Speaker 2: if she can rely on that person and ask to 98 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:12,719 Speaker 2: build that kind of community around that man, it's best 99 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:17,240 Speaker 2: served obviously. Well, success is greater when we can teach 100 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:20,599 Speaker 2: theself boys as they grow into being men. But we 101 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 2: already have men now that need a hand here. So 102 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 2: my best advice is tolerance, patience, right, don't overwhelm, but 103 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 2: look for yours and opportunities. And when he's dumping, let 104 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:38,920 Speaker 2: that boy dunk right, and then figure out how to 105 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 2: be there with him. Put your arm around him, give 106 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 2: him a big kiss, something that tells him I can 107 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:51,279 Speaker 2: come back and dump again tomorrow. And also it's important 108 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:55,159 Speaker 2: for women to be hay with men sharing their feelings 109 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:59,600 Speaker 2: and emotions because again, the same lessons that we've been 110 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:02,760 Speaker 2: taught as it relates to what it means to be 111 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:05,919 Speaker 2: a man, women have been taught the same thing. So 112 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 2: a lot of women don't want that man sharing a 113 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:11,360 Speaker 2: lot of feelings a lot of emotions that you know, 114 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 2: they believe that that's my space to do that that 115 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 2: ain't for him. But what I'm saying is, if your 116 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 2: man is not sharing his feelings and emotions, it's not 117 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 2: like he's not stuffing them away. And when he stuffs 118 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 2: him away, they come out sideways because they're coming out 119 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:28,640 Speaker 2: somewhere another. You know, there was a time, and that 120 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 2: was a time. I just haven't had the opportunity of sometime. 121 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:33,280 Speaker 2: And I'm in front of a room, say a couple 122 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:35,560 Speaker 2: of hundred people, and I would ask the folks in 123 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 2: the room, raise your hand. If you've never seen your 124 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 2: father cry. Probably about a third of folks in the 125 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 2: room hand go up, and I'll say keep your hand up. 126 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 2: And those of you who only seen your dad or 127 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 2: father figure cry once, please raise your hand. Between once 128 00:07:57,080 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 2: and never, two thirds of the room easily, easily two 129 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 2: thirds of the room has their hand up. That's killing 130 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 2: us as men, right, that's killing us as men. So 131 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 2: it's really really important that we raise our boys to 132 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 2: learn and be able to share who they are emotionally, 133 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:25,440 Speaker 2: and we cultivate that with our men as well. And 134 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 2: a lot of it is on the shoulders at this 135 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 2: particular time, a lot of it is, unfortunately on the 136 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:33,000 Speaker 2: shoulders of women. 137 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:36,360 Speaker 1: I'm going to recap those notes. I want to get 138 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 1: a couple of more of these questions. And here's the 139 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:40,880 Speaker 1: other thing. Let me just say this. When I work 140 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:44,520 Speaker 1: with men, I give them a list of feelings. 141 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:49,440 Speaker 3: I've got a very extensive I got a list, I 142 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:52,280 Speaker 3: got a positive list, I got a negative list. And 143 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 3: because so many men don't have the vocabulary, their emotional 144 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 3: library is good, bad, right, wrong, angry, happy. They don't 145 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:08,720 Speaker 3: know anxiety, they don't know disappointment, they don't know frustration, 146 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 3: they don't know melancholic. 147 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:12,920 Speaker 1: So I give them a list and I say, okay, 148 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:15,000 Speaker 1: use it, and they use it. 149 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:15,440 Speaker 2: Okay. 150 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:21,080 Speaker 1: So here's another question I get asked by women all 151 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 1: of the time. Let mean, this is how they say it. 152 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 1: They'll give me a scenario and I say, okay, well 153 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:32,760 Speaker 1: that's disrespectful. They'll say, well, how come he can disrespect me, 154 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:34,800 Speaker 1: I can't disrespect them. 155 00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:39,959 Speaker 2: It makes sense. And we're back to communication, right and 156 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 2: how we communicate, how we do or don't communicate with 157 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:46,319 Speaker 2: each other. And you're right, my thoughts are very important 158 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 2: to me for women or feelings are very important to her. 159 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 2: And then how do we in a very mature way 160 00:09:54,800 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 2: find that sweet spot in how we negotiate That is important. 161 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 2: Maturity is very very important in respect to what we're 162 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:08,880 Speaker 2: talking about. Humility is very important, and respect we're talking 163 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 2: about the ability to be humble and remain teachable. It 164 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:20,199 Speaker 2: is very important to what we're talking about. Understanding issues 165 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:23,839 Speaker 2: of gender as it relates to equity and equality, it's 166 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 2: very very important, I think for men to understand understand that, understand, 167 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:32,880 Speaker 2: like I said, those three aspects of men with less 168 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 2: value plus property plus objectification, because in those experiences with 169 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:42,839 Speaker 2: women that's in there for us. We need to understand 170 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:47,360 Speaker 2: what their experience has been like being victimized by that, 171 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:52,840 Speaker 2: and what our experience has been like not only being 172 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:56,440 Speaker 2: perpetrators of that, but many of us are not in 173 00:10:56,480 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 2: an overt way but with benefactors of it regards to 174 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:05,720 Speaker 2: understand to that, I think it's just really important for 175 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:12,719 Speaker 2: us as men to spend time really exploring healthy manhood. 176 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:15,520 Speaker 2: And if we explore that, you know, what it means 177 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:20,240 Speaker 2: to be a healthy man. That means you're asking for help, 178 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:23,719 Speaker 2: you're offering help, you're accepting help. It means that you're 179 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 2: willing to share your feelings and emotions openly. It means 180 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:30,120 Speaker 2: that you're willing to be vulnerable. It means that you're 181 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:34,440 Speaker 2: willing to work toward being your authentic self. It means 182 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:37,199 Speaker 2: that you're taking an interest in the experience of women 183 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:41,160 Speaker 2: and girls in sexual conquests. Is not a goal, you know, 184 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:47,080 Speaker 2: all of this encompasses being healthy men. I'm not here 185 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 2: to be an authority in any sense of the word 186 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 2: pretty much or nothing, but definitely not on the experience 187 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:59,240 Speaker 2: of women. But I do know and truly believe if 188 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:01,959 Speaker 2: we accompl some of the things that we're talking about 189 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:06,840 Speaker 2: as men, you know, and various times in my life 190 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:10,920 Speaker 2: doing men's groups, we would talk about the reality that 191 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:15,720 Speaker 2: men and women may come to a situation or come 192 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 2: into a situation where we both have like let's say, 193 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:25,920 Speaker 2: a laundry list of issues. I still today believe that 194 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:30,760 Speaker 2: if we as men work on our issues alone, just 195 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:35,880 Speaker 2: work on ours. But in that relationship with her, her 196 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:39,960 Speaker 2: laundry list also begins to shrink as we're working on ours, 197 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:43,520 Speaker 2: because there are things on our lists, you know, that 198 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 2: are really impacting her, that's contributing to her list. We 199 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:50,160 Speaker 2: just work on our list long, Let's just work on 200 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:54,440 Speaker 2: our stuff alone, right, I believe in a male dominating 201 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:58,280 Speaker 2: society which we still live in, her laundry list begins 202 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:01,480 Speaker 2: to shrink, right, But there are many things on her 203 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:05,160 Speaker 2: list that has come by the way of, you know, 204 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 2: the trauma that she's experienced at the hands of men, 205 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:13,000 Speaker 2: and our level of maturity to be in that space 206 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:16,200 Speaker 2: and understand that and what we then take personal and 207 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:22,120 Speaker 2: what we don't. That's the work of men, you know. 208 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:27,760 Speaker 2: And I really believe that when men, you know, join 209 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:32,360 Speaker 2: on with other men, create space, have these kinds of 210 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:36,559 Speaker 2: conversations that you and I having today with the battles 211 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:40,480 Speaker 2: for it, with the better for it. And I'm also 212 00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:45,240 Speaker 2: going to say, you know, most of the spaces that 213 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:50,720 Speaker 2: myself the other men of our organizations get to speak 214 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 2: to men, I would say probably still seven out of 215 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 2: ten times is women organizing the event or the activity 216 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:04,600 Speaker 2: for us to have an opportunity to speak to men? Right? 217 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:07,320 Speaker 2: One of when you do prevention work, you know, it 218 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 2: was hard to measure. One of my own personal measurements 219 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:13,440 Speaker 2: is when we at least get to fifty to fifty 220 00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:16,599 Speaker 2: fifty percent of the time we're invited by men and 221 00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:19,720 Speaker 2: fifty percent of the time we're invited by women. And 222 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:20,960 Speaker 2: we're not there yet. 223 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:31,200 Speaker 1: And we'll talk about that when we come back. Welcome 224 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 1: back to the rspot. I want to raise this with 225 00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:37,880 Speaker 1: you because I got you hearing you from New York, 226 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 1: so I know we think kind of a like. I 227 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:48,400 Speaker 1: have been very, very troubled and disturbed by the language 228 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:57,680 Speaker 1: used toward Madam Vice President as she pursues this new 229 00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:02,800 Speaker 1: position as president of this country. And my disturbance has 230 00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:09,600 Speaker 1: been I've heard a number of white men call her 231 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:16,520 Speaker 1: out of her name, stupid, non intelligent. In addition to 232 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 1: the one who shall remain nameless, I won't utter his 233 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:23,440 Speaker 1: name out of my mouth. But others have jumped. 234 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:24,120 Speaker 2: On the bandwagon. 235 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:28,040 Speaker 1: They've questioned her ability because she's not doing it the 236 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 1: way they do it. She needs to do an interview, 237 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 1: she needs to do this. She need you know. But 238 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 1: I have been very disturbed by the silence of black 239 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 1: men at the way this sister woman has been spoken 240 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 1: about publicly. 241 00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:49,600 Speaker 2: I believe for us as men see, I do my 242 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:58,160 Speaker 2: work from a place of being unapologetically pro black women. Now, 243 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 2: if you don't understand what that me like, I can 244 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 2: have white women that will be upset when they hear that. 245 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:05,640 Speaker 2: But the truth of the matter is when I say 246 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:09,480 Speaker 2: I'm unapologetically pro black women, that means I also care 247 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 2: about you. But what it means is that I sent 248 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 2: to the experience of black women, and that allows me 249 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:24,320 Speaker 2: to be in our live of all women. But if 250 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 2: I start out by centering the experiences of white women 251 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:31,400 Speaker 2: in the country like the United States of America, which 252 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 2: is a racist class in other forms, a group of 253 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:37,560 Speaker 2: pressing constructs, I really ever get to black women. I 254 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 2: got to reach in too deep. So if I start 255 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:44,040 Speaker 2: with black women and work my way out, all women 256 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:50,080 Speaker 2: will benefit. I am unapologetically pro black women, and I 257 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:52,400 Speaker 2: say that proudly, and I say that out loud, and 258 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 2: I'm not and by doing that, I'm not doing anything 259 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:57,560 Speaker 2: special because I should be that. So it's not like 260 00:16:57,640 --> 00:16:59,520 Speaker 2: I'm saying that. Don't get me no pat on the 261 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:02,640 Speaker 2: back for just simply doing what I'm supposed to be doing. 262 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:05,520 Speaker 2: But I need to say it out loud for other 263 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:08,800 Speaker 2: brothers to hear it said out loud. I think the 264 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:15,280 Speaker 2: misogyny that we're not aware of that's in us also 265 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:19,680 Speaker 2: contributes to silencing us right in the face of these 266 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:25,800 Speaker 2: other men who would, dare you know, speak about Black 267 00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:28,919 Speaker 2: women and the way they do for us, it almost 268 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:34,200 Speaker 2: goes as black men that we're speaking about specifically right now. 269 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 2: For us, it almost goes over our head the fact 270 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:41,679 Speaker 2: that they're speaking about black women to a place up 271 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:44,479 Speaker 2: they're just speaking about women. I don't even know if 272 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:48,840 Speaker 2: we connect fully with the fact that they're speaking about 273 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:51,560 Speaker 2: black women, that they're speaking about women from our community. 274 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:54,480 Speaker 2: I don't even know how to what degree we connect 275 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 2: with that, because the misogyny runs through our beings, as 276 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:01,960 Speaker 2: do minds too, all Right, I have to constantly confront it, 277 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:05,840 Speaker 2: challenge it, do some self wrapped when it comes upon me. 278 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:11,760 Speaker 2: Right now, I don't think in a male dominating, a 279 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:17,240 Speaker 2: white male dominating race construct such as the United States 280 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:20,680 Speaker 2: of America, you can't get away from this stuff. It's 281 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:24,280 Speaker 2: in us, and denying that this in us will land 282 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:28,359 Speaker 2: toward us doing more harm. I also joined that call 283 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:33,239 Speaker 2: of brothers and we raise a lot of money, and 284 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:34,960 Speaker 2: it was a lot of brothers on that course. So 285 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:37,800 Speaker 2: it's a lot of us that are really down with 286 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:41,520 Speaker 2: our sister. That's not even a question. We are down, 287 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:47,160 Speaker 2: but you're gonna always have. Unfortunately, the men who are not, 288 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:52,679 Speaker 2: and the question, the real question right for them is 289 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:56,479 Speaker 2: to really grapple with the misogyny that we're taught that's 290 00:18:56,520 --> 00:19:01,560 Speaker 2: in us as men that contribute to this. But I'm 291 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:03,680 Speaker 2: going to also lift up the brothers that are all 292 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:08,359 Speaker 2: over this I was so so proud to be on 293 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:13,960 Speaker 2: it wall. But these same black men that you're speaking 294 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:17,840 Speaker 2: about would be silent if it was any woman. The 295 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:22,760 Speaker 2: challenges we're not connected to her blackness, which then tells 296 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:26,440 Speaker 2: us we should have a high level of responsibility. It's 297 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:30,680 Speaker 2: the fact that we're not connected to her blackness because 298 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:33,040 Speaker 2: this is how men talk about women in general. Now, 299 00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:34,600 Speaker 2: of course they take it to a whole nother level 300 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:37,600 Speaker 2: when they're talking about black women, right, and as them 301 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:40,040 Speaker 2: talking about black women, I mean, we should be offended 302 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:42,680 Speaker 2: if they're talking about any woman. But by virtue talking 303 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:45,480 Speaker 2: about black women, it should go to another level for us. 304 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:48,680 Speaker 2: Why shouldn't it? Of course it should, but for many 305 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:51,760 Speaker 2: of us as men, it doesn't. It doesn't go to 306 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:56,120 Speaker 2: another level or responsibility or accountability. So it just says 307 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:59,400 Speaker 2: we would sit through them saying that about a white woman, 308 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:02,240 Speaker 2: will sit through them saying that about a black woman, 309 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 2: because for us, the sexism runs deep, the male domination 310 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:10,359 Speaker 2: runs deep, and our responsibility to black women do not 311 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:14,000 Speaker 2: co opt that, and it's unfortunate and we have to 312 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:21,720 Speaker 2: be reminded about that. But I'm fully aware of what 313 00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:25,520 Speaker 2: you're saying and what you're sharing, and there's a responsibility 314 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:28,879 Speaker 2: as an accountability on us as black men to understand 315 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:31,000 Speaker 2: that and to be aware of that and to teach 316 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:32,679 Speaker 2: that to our boys as well. 317 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:36,320 Speaker 1: Let me ask you this. I lived in a violent 318 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:43,400 Speaker 1: relationship for nine years. My husband was physically violent, emotionally violent, 319 00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:47,679 Speaker 1: all of that, and I'll never forget one day we 320 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:51,879 Speaker 1: had this big mashup. I can't even say it was 321 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:54,320 Speaker 1: a fight because he was six four two sixty. 322 00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 2: I'm five to five. 323 00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:02,560 Speaker 1: And I remember afterwards and I was going outside with 324 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:08,359 Speaker 1: my black eye covered up or whatever, and he was 325 00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:12,080 Speaker 1: coming with me. We're walking out like nothing is wrong. 326 00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 1: And a neighbor who lived on the third floor came down, 327 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:21,879 Speaker 1: walked up to us. His name was mister Charlie. His 328 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:26,440 Speaker 1: wife's name was Miss Ruth. And he said to my husband, 329 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 1: he said, mister, I'm gonna tell you this one time. 330 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:37,120 Speaker 1: If I ever hear again you put your hands on her, 331 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:38,920 Speaker 1: You're gonna have to deal with me. 332 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:40,960 Speaker 2: Now. 333 00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:45,200 Speaker 1: Much to my shock and surprise, he didn't say anything. 334 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:49,600 Speaker 1: He didn't say anything. He just walked. You know, we 335 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:53,480 Speaker 1: just kept walking away. I was both scared to death 336 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:59,520 Speaker 1: and shocked. So my question is, if you are a 337 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:02,879 Speaker 1: man and you know a brother, man, whether you know 338 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 1: him or not, your neighbor, your nephew, your brother is 339 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:11,600 Speaker 1: being violent towards a woman, what do you do? What 340 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:12,159 Speaker 1: do you do? 341 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 2: Well, that's a great question in many cases, because your 342 00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:23,480 Speaker 2: neighbor could have put himself in harm's wife right, And 343 00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:27,080 Speaker 2: that's a personal choice that men make. And I'm not 344 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:30,680 Speaker 2: taking that choice off the table because we are in 345 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:33,520 Speaker 2: an epidemic of violence against women and girl. But that's 346 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:37,320 Speaker 2: a personal choice. But the truth of the matter is, 347 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:40,520 Speaker 2: and he didn't and the man who knew your husband. 348 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:44,720 Speaker 2: But because the point is, most of the time, men 349 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:48,440 Speaker 2: who are close to a man who's abusive knows he's abusive, 350 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:52,920 Speaker 2: or at least knows by his behavior that he definitely 351 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:57,200 Speaker 2: has a tendency to be abusive. And in many cases, 352 00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:01,280 Speaker 2: it's not a situation where we're putting ourselves in harm's way. 353 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 2: It could be my cousin, it could be my brother, 354 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:08,000 Speaker 2: it could be my son. Right, we know that they're 355 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:11,439 Speaker 2: abusive or have the tendency to be abusive, and we 356 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:15,720 Speaker 2: are absorbing that behavior and not challenging it. So much 357 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:20,920 Speaker 2: of that is rooted in again just doing tradition. She's 358 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:26,720 Speaker 2: his property and he can do with his property as 359 00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:31,760 Speaker 2: he chooses. Right when we walk down the aisles and 360 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:35,280 Speaker 2: the person officiating the service says, who give this woman away? 361 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:37,399 Speaker 2: And first of all, you don't give nothing away and 362 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:40,679 Speaker 2: let you own it. And the dad gave her away, 363 00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:46,720 Speaker 2: she is now his right to do it as he chooses. 364 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:48,560 Speaker 2: And like I said in the beginning, there wasn't a 365 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:51,400 Speaker 2: time where women were to property man. We know that's 366 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:55,600 Speaker 2: not the case, but we know it's tolerated, right, very 367 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:59,520 Speaker 2: much tolerated. And so there's a couple of things for 368 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:04,040 Speaker 2: us as men to teach that the boys right to redefined. 369 00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:07,560 Speaker 2: Man who has a respects to women's property, for men 370 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:13,800 Speaker 2: who are in relationship with men who have these behaviors 371 00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:17,679 Speaker 2: to challenge that, to speak to it. You know, the 372 00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:22,400 Speaker 2: world I envision is a man who's assault on his wife. 373 00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:26,680 Speaker 2: Ten men from the neighborhood knock on his door and say, 374 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:28,960 Speaker 2: your brother, we're here in peace. We're here and love 375 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:35,000 Speaker 2: we as men, we don't live that way. And that 376 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:37,040 Speaker 2: when he goes to work and he got the four 377 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:39,840 Speaker 2: or five guys that he plays cards with at lunchtime, 378 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:42,000 Speaker 2: they say, you know what we heard about you, when 379 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:44,399 Speaker 2: we heard about what you're doing. You know, we welcome 380 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:47,320 Speaker 2: at this card table until you change your way. When 381 00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:50,119 Speaker 2: he goes to his son's little league baseball game, the 382 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:52,000 Speaker 2: coach says, your son is welcome here. 383 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:52,320 Speaker 1: Man. 384 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:55,320 Speaker 2: We love your son, but I'm not dealing with you 385 00:24:55,440 --> 00:25:01,400 Speaker 2: until you change your way. That's when we say that men, 386 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 2: that women can end this on their own. They would 387 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:07,480 Speaker 2: have already. When we say it's the number one call 388 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:10,639 Speaker 2: for the last thirty years for the police departments, that 389 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:14,679 Speaker 2: simply means a criminal justice response is not going to 390 00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:17,880 Speaker 2: change this what's going to change this is when we 391 00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:23,040 Speaker 2: collectively as men say we've had enough, right, that's what's 392 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:26,000 Speaker 2: going to change. This is on our shoulders, it's on 393 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:29,520 Speaker 2: our watch right. That's what's going to change when we 394 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:32,439 Speaker 2: collectively as men say we'll no longer going to tolerate this. 395 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:35,919 Speaker 2: And it's not about violence. It's not using violence to 396 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:39,800 Speaker 2: end violence. It's about our relationship with each other as men. 397 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:44,720 Speaker 2: We make sure we tell each other the stories that 398 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 2: are going to benefit maintaining this collective socialization. Because, for example, 399 00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:55,280 Speaker 2: you hear every man has heard a story that if 400 00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:58,080 Speaker 2: you get involved, she's going to jump on you too, 401 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:01,800 Speaker 2: right out. And if you ask men, have you ever 402 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:04,840 Speaker 2: experienced that? Most men say no, But I heard about 403 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:07,840 Speaker 2: it right, that if something's going down and I get involved, 404 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:10,119 Speaker 2: she's gonna jump on me too. Now that's not to 405 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 2: say it's never happened, right, because it has happened. But 406 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:16,800 Speaker 2: the reason she jumped and you were defending her and 407 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:21,760 Speaker 2: she jumped on you also because she knows that she's 408 00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:27,680 Speaker 2: gonna hold her responsible for you correcting his behavior. Right, 409 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:29,879 Speaker 2: So if I can jump on you or yell also 410 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:33,320 Speaker 2: tell you to mind your business, that will lessen the 411 00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:36,120 Speaker 2: assault I'm going to experience when I get home. We're 412 00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:38,480 Speaker 2: gonna still beat me up when I get home. You're 413 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:40,840 Speaker 2: gonna say I was looking at you, you were looking 414 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:43,200 Speaker 2: at me. Maybe I like this, dude, Do you really 415 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:45,879 Speaker 2: know that guy from somewhere? Because why else would he 416 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:48,320 Speaker 2: be in our business? All that's going to be on 417 00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:52,320 Speaker 2: the table when she gets home. But at least by 418 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:54,399 Speaker 2: yelling at you and curse it at you, except you're 419 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:57,000 Speaker 2: telling you to mind your business whatever, whatever, whatever, that's 420 00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:00,600 Speaker 2: gonna lessen the assault. And as men for us, that 421 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:03,920 Speaker 2: just simply tells us she likes getting to beat So 422 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:08,080 Speaker 2: we just now we have the greenlight just in all 423 00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:13,160 Speaker 2: situations mind our business. Right. So it's just really important 424 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:18,320 Speaker 2: for men to have these conversations to educate ourselves, get 425 00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:20,920 Speaker 2: off of remote control and stop doing tradition. 426 00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:30,800 Speaker 1: We'll talk about that right after this break. Welcome back 427 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:36,760 Speaker 1: to the our spot. Let's get back to the conversation. Wow, wow, wow, Tony, 428 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 1: you have given us just I'm just I got my 429 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 1: little paper. I'm just going crazy. Thank you for helping 430 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:49,919 Speaker 1: us me and anyone listening. This collective socialization. I've never 431 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:54,000 Speaker 1: heard it crystallized like that. That men are taught women 432 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:57,840 Speaker 1: are of less value, that they're objectified, they become the 433 00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:03,359 Speaker 1: property of men, which then humanizes now and that dehumanization 434 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:09,440 Speaker 1: often leads to the violence against women. As women, as 435 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:13,639 Speaker 1: we are dealing with our men, understand that that collective 436 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:19,320 Speaker 1: socialization has put them in a box of domination, power control, 437 00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:23,600 Speaker 1: also where they don't ask for help, don't offer help, 438 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:27,439 Speaker 1: and don't accept help, which then leads to all manner 439 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:33,239 Speaker 1: of mental, emotional, and then physical malady. I say, I 440 00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:36,720 Speaker 1: say it's arrested development because men are not willing to 441 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:43,560 Speaker 1: be vulnerable or to to you know, acknowledge fears and weaknesses. 442 00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:47,240 Speaker 1: They have a rested development. As women, you're saying, when 443 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:51,160 Speaker 1: we want to get into or support our men in 444 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:57,560 Speaker 1: becoming a reimagined version of manhood, that we've got to 445 00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:02,080 Speaker 1: be patient. You said that that his disconnect or his 446 00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:09,840 Speaker 1: withholding withdrawing is not personal. You said, don't overwhelm him 447 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:13,920 Speaker 1: with questions. If he's speaking or sharing or dumping, don't 448 00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:17,440 Speaker 1: overwhelm him. Be grateful for the fact that he's talking 449 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:20,840 Speaker 1: and that he can come back again because maybe now 450 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:25,080 Speaker 1: he experiences you as a safe space. Don't make him wrong. 451 00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:28,160 Speaker 1: I added that you didn't say that, but I'm saying that. 452 00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:33,560 Speaker 1: Don't make it wrong. Let us learn to respect his 453 00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:38,040 Speaker 1: thinking and not be offended that he doesn't understand our 454 00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:42,880 Speaker 1: feelings because very often his emotional library, his language, his 455 00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:45,200 Speaker 1: voice for sharing that isn't there. 456 00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:47,840 Speaker 2: Let me just add one thing to that piece. Then 457 00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:51,720 Speaker 2: I don't want the same time to it look to 458 00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:54,600 Speaker 2: it to appeal or look like or the experience to 459 00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:57,560 Speaker 2: be that. We still don't need to be held accountable 460 00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:02,800 Speaker 2: and we've wrong, and that's part of this conversation. We 461 00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:06,920 Speaker 2: still need to be accountable is the negotiation of it, 462 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:11,720 Speaker 2: all right, I'm not taking accountability off the table right 463 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:14,120 Speaker 2: where we need to be accountable as men. We need 464 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:16,800 Speaker 2: to be accountable. At a call to men, we talk 465 00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:20,800 Speaker 2: about reaching in and grabbing the hearts of men, ohn right, 466 00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:26,000 Speaker 2: and that we can have accountable conversations that can also 467 00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:29,600 Speaker 2: be loving and kind and respectful. And that's how we 468 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:33,920 Speaker 2: go about engaging men. It's very important to us that 469 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:38,200 Speaker 2: whether we have whole day or one hour or thirty minutes, 470 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:41,800 Speaker 2: that men leave our presence thinking and feeling differently than 471 00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:45,440 Speaker 2: they did when they entered. And that means grabbing the 472 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:49,120 Speaker 2: hearts of men. But we know that it could be 473 00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:52,000 Speaker 2: a long journey from the head to the heart with 474 00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:55,800 Speaker 2: a lot of roadblocks and detours and obstacles, and we 475 00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:59,200 Speaker 2: know that to be true, right, But that's the work, 476 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:03,520 Speaker 2: that's where change happens for us is at the heart 477 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:09,080 Speaker 2: is about transformation, not transaction. Men live in transactions, but 478 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:12,720 Speaker 2: here women do transformation much better. But that's what we're 479 00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:17,520 Speaker 2: talking about here, about transformation. How do you help him 480 00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:19,400 Speaker 2: in that space of transformation? 481 00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:29,280 Speaker 1: Tony Parter, author, educator, activists committed to creating gender and 482 00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:36,240 Speaker 1: racial equality, committed to reimagining manhood. What's the final call 483 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:40,080 Speaker 1: you'd like to put out to men right here? That's 484 00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:43,640 Speaker 1: my first question. My second question is how can I 485 00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:45,280 Speaker 1: support you so? 486 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:47,960 Speaker 2: And I appreciate that, and I can answer both of 487 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:52,000 Speaker 2: those questions in one voice as in the name of 488 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:54,240 Speaker 2: a call to men. We want men to join us. 489 00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:57,360 Speaker 2: We want men to join this effort, to join this movement, 490 00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:01,000 Speaker 2: to become part of solution and ending this epidemic of 491 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:04,640 Speaker 2: violence against women and girls. And we are not just 492 00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:09,240 Speaker 2: ending in epidemical violence against women and girls, also promoting healthy, 493 00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:15,800 Speaker 2: respectful manhood. Remember that this collective socialization, also known as 494 00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:19,880 Speaker 2: the manbox is not only forcing epidemical violence against women 495 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:23,960 Speaker 2: and girls, it's killing us as men too. So I 496 00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:26,560 Speaker 2: want to ask men, you know, just reach out to us. 497 00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:30,520 Speaker 2: We want everything social media call to men. Our website 498 00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:33,800 Speaker 2: is to call Themen dot org. There's tons of information there. 499 00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:37,920 Speaker 2: It's all free right, you can download it, you can 500 00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:40,520 Speaker 2: make use of it is there for you to take 501 00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:44,400 Speaker 2: and become part of the solution. And my dear sister, 502 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:48,400 Speaker 2: you're doing that work right now by having me on 503 00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:51,800 Speaker 2: your show and then introducing me to your audience of 504 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:56,080 Speaker 2: follow us. Is no more than that, can we ask? 505 00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:59,760 Speaker 2: So sisters and sisters been doing it all along. They've 506 00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:03,000 Speaker 2: been at the forefront of a call to men. When 507 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:05,600 Speaker 2: you think about how organization you might think as all 508 00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:08,680 Speaker 2: men know is half men and half women, and women 509 00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:12,320 Speaker 2: are very much in leadership at a call to men 510 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:16,240 Speaker 2: and helping the guide this process. And so we appreciate 511 00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:20,720 Speaker 2: you and your contribution to it as well. Have always 512 00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:24,680 Speaker 2: been a big fan of yours and uh so just 513 00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:26,960 Speaker 2: an on and the privilege to be in your presence 514 00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:29,400 Speaker 2: and have this opportunity to chat with you. 515 00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:32,720 Speaker 1: Thank you. I'm going to send them a Call to 516 00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:37,600 Speaker 1: Men dot org A call to men dot org. If 517 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:40,120 Speaker 1: you are a mother, if you are a man, if 518 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:47,840 Speaker 1: your father, let's reimagine manhood, eliminate remote control manhood. And 519 00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:53,680 Speaker 1: my big concern is it's killing men. You know the 520 00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:59,720 Speaker 1: number instances of heart disease, heart attack, suicide, prostate cancer, 521 00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:03,760 Speaker 1: it's raising and I know nothing happens in a body 522 00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:06,840 Speaker 1: that doesn't first happen in the mind and heart. Thank 523 00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:09,840 Speaker 1: you for being with me, Tony Porter. If you're a mother, 524 00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:13,360 Speaker 1: if your sister, if you're a wife, go to the website, 525 00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:16,399 Speaker 1: find out what you need and make sure that all 526 00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:19,680 Speaker 1: the men in your life that they have access to it, 527 00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:22,359 Speaker 1: because we've got to get them in the space. We've 528 00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:25,359 Speaker 1: got to get them in the space so that we 529 00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:31,040 Speaker 1: don't lose them and that we can begin to neutralize 530 00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:35,359 Speaker 1: this collective socialization. I hope you got some notes. I 531 00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:37,879 Speaker 1: hope that you heard something. I hope that you listen 532 00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:40,360 Speaker 1: again and again. I hope that you let your sister 533 00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:43,920 Speaker 1: friends and your brother friends hear this because here on 534 00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:49,600 Speaker 1: the our spot, we are about creating better relationships. So 535 00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:52,839 Speaker 1: I'll be back next week. In the meantime, I want 536 00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:56,160 Speaker 1: you to stay in peace and not in pieces. 537 00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:07,440 Speaker 4: Bye. 538 00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:11,040 Speaker 1: The r Spot is a production of Shondaland Audio in 539 00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:16,800 Speaker 1: partnership with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit 540 00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:21,200 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 541 00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:22,520 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.