Speaker 1: This is the most traumatic podcast ever and iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 1: Chris Harrison and Lauren Zema coming to you today from
Speaker 1: a spectacular location. We couldn't be further from Austin, Texas.
Speaker 2: Literally, I'm looking out at the ocean. I'm feeling blessed, shining,
Speaker 2: shimmer rings splendid, and I'm really happy after having just
Speaker 2: come off of a week about death.
Speaker 1: We are in Maine for a very specific reason. We
Speaker 1: are in specifically Ognquit, Maine. Yes, Ogunquit, Maine, just out
Speaker 1: of Portland, Maine. We're up here because Elz has been
Speaker 1: up here working for a week. Explain to us why
Speaker 1: we're in Maine, why you were in Maine. I talked
Speaker 1: a little bit last week you weren't around, and some
Speaker 1: Mariama Nunos was nice enough to fill in. I was
Speaker 1: explaining to everybody, Oh, you were talking about we were,
Speaker 1: of course, you know, I can't get through a week
Speaker 1: without talking about you, but just how special this week was,
Speaker 1: and I wanted you to tell this story. So I
Speaker 1: didn't fill anybody in. But now we can divulge where
Speaker 1: you have been and why we're in Maine.
Speaker 2: Yes, So we have saved this podcast for today, which
Speaker 2: is actually National Grief Awareness Day. It's perfect timing. I've
Speaker 2: just come off of a week of volunteering at a camp,
Speaker 2: a summer camp for children who specifically have experienced a
Speaker 2: major loss in their lives, the loss of a parent,
Speaker 2: or of a sibling, or, if not a parent, their
Speaker 2: primary caregiver. This is a camp an organization, a nonprofit
Speaker 2: called Experience Camps. You will notice my voice is still gone.
Speaker 2: After a week of screaming and yelling and laughing with
Speaker 2: kids NonStop from seven am till midnight every day, the
Speaker 2: voice has failed me again. But Experience Camps was incredible.
Speaker 2: They have multiple locations. I based on our schedules, was
Speaker 2: put at the camp in Maine, camp called Summerset Camp
Speaker 2: for Girls, so this was an all girls camp that
Speaker 2: Experienced Camps does week long camps for girls for boys,
Speaker 2: and it was just incredible. Basically, how the camp works
Speaker 2: is that the idea is kids who have experienced major
Speaker 2: loss are going to be able to come to a
Speaker 2: place with other kids who have experienced major loss, and
Speaker 2: that's very rare for them. Right. I lost my dad
Speaker 2: when I was in college, and I was the first
Speaker 2: person I knew who had experienced loss. So imagine if
Speaker 2: a child is nine years old or twelve years old,
Speaker 2: how few kids they know who have So they're able
Speaker 2: to come to this camp and be around other kids
Speaker 2: who have experienced loss, be comfortable in their grief, talk
Speaker 2: about their grief. Yes, laugh about their grief, because grief
Speaker 2: can't be funny. Can be funny. If we're not laughing,
Speaker 2: we're crying, so it's good to laugh. And then the
Speaker 2: way it works is every single day we do something
Speaker 2: called a sharing circle with a grief specialist with the kids.
Speaker 2: That's a place where for about an hour they can
Speaker 2: talk about their grief, get a little bit of you know,
Speaker 2: counseling on their grief, advice and feedback and help and love.
Speaker 2: And then for the rest of the time it's camp.
Speaker 2: It's fun. It's fun. It's a place for them to escape.
Speaker 2: They do activities. They do soccer and arts and crafts
Speaker 2: and water skiing and.
Speaker 1: That drama as well theater.
Speaker 2: Come on, okay, we'll get into it. I did teach
Speaker 2: drama every day. Very excitingly. The camp asked I what
Speaker 2: my experience was, and I said, I got nothing on
Speaker 2: sports on sports, but I do of acting. So they
Speaker 2: let me for the first time teach drama at the camp.
Speaker 1: Every day, can I ask you? And it was wonderful
Speaker 1: before we jump into the nuts and bolts of this camp.
Speaker 1: And there are a many, many reasons why I love you.
Speaker 1: But oh god, I need to explain to everybody how
Speaker 1: this happened, because it is I wish it was more normal,
Speaker 1: but it's not normal what you did and how you
Speaker 1: found this camp. We're going to get involved in supporting
Speaker 1: this camp. And then all of a sudden came to
Speaker 1: me and said, I'm leaving for a week. I'm moving
Speaker 1: to Maine because now I'm a camp counselor. Again, There's
Speaker 1: something that moves me about you is you don't just
Speaker 1: talk about something. You through everything at this Oh wow,
Speaker 1: how did this happen? How did you learn about Experience Camp?
Speaker 3: Well?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is weird to be in your thirties and
Speaker 2: say to people this summer, I'm going to be a
Speaker 2: camp counselor. So I usually post about my dad. I
Speaker 2: lost my dad when I was in college. My little
Speaker 2: sister was also in college, and my brother was in
Speaker 2: high school. He had been sick, but then he had
Speaker 2: what they call the widow Maker heart attack. That's the
Speaker 2: big one, you're not getting through it. And so it
Speaker 2: was in many ways sudden, and you know, it broke
Speaker 2: my family and we have pulled through. There are so
Speaker 2: many silver linings about grief. I think in many ways,
Speaker 2: grief made me a better person. I look back at
Speaker 2: the kid I was in high school in college and
Speaker 2: like I was kind of worse. It gives you wonderful
Speaker 2: perspective at a young age, and so over the years
Speaker 2: on Instagram, I have usually posted about my dad. On
Speaker 2: the anniversary of his death, I'll try to talk about
Speaker 2: what I've learned about grief this year. A takeaway because
Speaker 2: grief is a process that's life long. It's always with you,
Speaker 2: and it's always changing, and the loss of someone you
Speaker 2: love deeply never leaves you, and that's okay. It also
Speaker 2: gives us wonderful again perspective on life and perspective on joy.
Speaker 2: So I got a message from a follower, and I've
Speaker 2: tried so hard to find this message. So if you
Speaker 2: were this person, please DM me again. A message from
Speaker 2: a follower that said, I know you always post about
Speaker 2: your dad. I feel like you need to know about
Speaker 2: this camp, and they sent me info about Experience Camp. Said, oh,
Speaker 2: my gosh. My first reaction was, I wish I'd known
Speaker 2: about this camp sooner. The first camp was back in
Speaker 2: two thousand and nine, and honestly I would have pushed
Speaker 2: my little brother to go back then because we lost
Speaker 2: my dad in twenty ten, and so I reached out
Speaker 2: to the camp. I think they very gently at first,
Speaker 2: were like, I said, I'd love to be involved in
Speaker 2: some way, and they were like, so, yeah, would you
Speaker 2: like to come see the camp for an afternoon? Would
Speaker 2: you like, like, what would you like to do something
Speaker 2: on zoom? What would you like to do? And I said, well,
Speaker 2: can I come be a counselor for a week? I
Speaker 2: think they were surprised, but very happy and welcoming, and
Speaker 2: they fit me into Maine, and I'm so grateful they did,
Speaker 2: because not only was it I mean I went into it,
Speaker 2: people call it the best week ever. I went into
Speaker 2: it hoping maybe I'll have a positive impact on one kid,
Speaker 2: That's my hope. But instead I walked away thinking that
Speaker 2: was a perfect week. It couldn't have gone better. We laughed,
Speaker 2: we cried. I felt so close to these kids and
Speaker 2: it was wonderful.
Speaker 1: I barely got to talk to you much because phone
Speaker 1: and you're not supposed to have your phone and all that,
Speaker 1: But let me just say when I did get a
Speaker 1: chance to talk to you and I could hear your
Speaker 1: horst voice, I could just tell the impact this camp,
Speaker 1: these kids, the other counselors were having on you. And
Speaker 1: it's almost as if you went to a camp as well.
Speaker 1: You just seem like a changed woman. And the best
Speaker 1: thing I heard from you, I've never been happier, you said.
Speaker 1: And I know that sounds weird. You're at a grief
Speaker 1: camp and.
Speaker 2: I don't even remember saying.
Speaker 1: You're like, I'm just so happy, and you were kind
Speaker 1: of crying, you were laughing. It just seemed like such
Speaker 1: a beautiful experience. And when I saw you yesterday, because
Speaker 1: we finally just met up again as you were at
Speaker 1: this camp and I flew up here to Maine to
Speaker 1: meet you, you just had this glow about you.
Speaker 2: Well, there's I've always felt there's something first of all,
Speaker 2: really special about all my love to you as my partner,
Speaker 2: but being around other women. So I think it's awesome
Speaker 2: that the camp does girls camps and boys camps. It's
Speaker 2: a very comfortable space and to be around like, look,
Speaker 2: first of all, a group of women gets ish done.
Speaker 2: This camp was so organized. Shout out to Rachel who
Speaker 2: was the director of the camp. So organized, so well
Speaker 2: run set up structurally for support and for joy there.
Speaker 2: One of the camp chants was that was awesome and
Speaker 2: we would chant it for We did a talent show one.
Speaker 1: Night and ran you hosted the talent show. Did that's Barbie?
Speaker 2: Well, yes, we'll get into that. But but even if
Speaker 2: a bunk's talent, even if a bunks act didn't go
Speaker 2: super great, we chanted that was awesome because it was
Speaker 2: such a supportive place and everything everybody did was great,
Speaker 2: and it was just a place where like the power
Speaker 2: of being able to be comfortable about grief, and these
Speaker 2: kids talked about that that you know normally in their
Speaker 2: lives they even have to comfort adults about grief, like
Speaker 2: a kid will say, oh, my died, and an adult
Speaker 2: tenses up and doesn't know what to say. And so
Speaker 2: for these kids to be able to be comfortable and
Speaker 2: also for the adults like we're often having I remember
Speaker 2: when I first started dating after my dad died. Look,
Speaker 2: it's very normal people. A guy would say on a date,
Speaker 2: So what do your parents do and where do they
Speaker 2: live and then I have to say, well, you know,
Speaker 2: my mom lives in Chicago, and then where's your dad, Well,
Speaker 2: my dad's dead, and then they're like oh, and then
Speaker 2: you're like, no, it's fine, I'm fine, and really you're
Speaker 2: not fine, but you don't want to scare somebody off.
Speaker 2: So just to be comfortable in grief was really powerful.
Speaker 2: And then to like laugh, I got to give a
Speaker 2: shout out to my bunk the colts. They were so special,
Speaker 2: my co counselors Heather and Cat and Carly, and our
Speaker 2: bunk campers. We had the triplets. We had Nellie and
Speaker 2: Ico and Cammy and Kia and Hayden and Daisy and
Speaker 2: Jaden and Judith, and they were so so wonderful. Was
Speaker 2: blessed to have kids who had been to camp before.
Speaker 2: To see the way that they that camp had affected them.
Speaker 3: How.
Speaker 2: Developed they were as eighth graders in their emotional intelligence
Speaker 2: was so wonderful, and like, at the end of the day,
Speaker 2: these are kids at camp. In the morning we would
Speaker 2: sometimes cry and laugh about our uh we had a
Speaker 2: lot of dead dads. Shout out to the Dead Dad's Club.
Speaker 2: And then late at night like they were farting and
Speaker 2: being silly and like practicing their act for the talent
Speaker 2: show and it was wonderful.
Speaker 1: And it is and I want to express something you
Speaker 1: told me, because honestly, when I heard grief camp, I'm like, okay,
Speaker 1: So they get together for a week and just live
Speaker 1: in their grief and tell you it's like, no, it's
Speaker 1: a camp. Yes they are. Everyone has this shared grief,
Speaker 1: but this is a camp as well. And they're going
Speaker 1: water skiing and they're playing soccer and arts and crafts
Speaker 1: and all the camp things. It's just they have this
Speaker 1: one singular thing that unites them and made it so beautiful.
Speaker 2: And honestly, I have tried over the years, like look,
Speaker 2: I did improv comedy for a long time, and that
Speaker 2: was what I taught this week at camp, improv comedy
Speaker 2: for my drama class. Thank you to Experience Camps for
Speaker 2: letting myself. Bays who's a wonderful Broadway star, and Beanie,
Speaker 2: who's an incredible actress. We got to kind of pilot
Speaker 2: the drama program. We each taught drama every single day,
Speaker 2: and I did improv comedy with the kids because improv
Speaker 2: is about support. The one rule of improv is you
Speaker 2: don't say no you say yes, and and that was
Speaker 2: what camp was about too, and look, you gotta laugh
Speaker 2: about it. My bunk cracked me up. We had great
Speaker 2: conversations where like, look the triplets, their dad died of
Speaker 2: a widow maker too. I said, hey, hi, five for
Speaker 2: a widow maker. You know, it happens. And we just
Speaker 2: had some really funny moments like I remember one of
Speaker 2: my campers shared that when she first found out her
Speaker 2: dad died, her mom told her at night, and her
Speaker 2: mom had just come back from a business trip and
Speaker 2: usually her mom would be her a teddy bear, and
Speaker 2: so she thought she was getting like a teddy bear
Speaker 2: from her mom's business trip, and she goes, I thought
Speaker 2: it was teddy bear time. I soon realized it was
Speaker 2: not teddybear time. So these kids are able to laugh
Speaker 2: about it, and you know, that's what life's about, right,
Speaker 2: is about finding the joy. So I was so impressed
Speaker 2: with that. They were, you know, here to cry, here
Speaker 2: to laugh, and that's what connects us all, are those
Speaker 2: shared human emotions. So grief camp shouldn't be scary, and
Speaker 2: it wasn't at all.
Speaker 1: And speaking of joy, as you brought many people joy
Speaker 1: at camp this week. As Barbie how did you get
Speaker 1: the moniker Barbie again?
Speaker 2: My colts the bunk I had, so I don't even
Speaker 2: fully remember how it started. I had brought a pink
Speaker 2: hat to camp, and then another counselor I'd forgotten a
Speaker 2: fanny pack, and fanny packs are big at camp, and
Speaker 2: another counselor, Hannah, had an extra one and she let
Speaker 2: me wear her pink fanny pack. So I was wearing pink.
Speaker 2: And then I think some the Barbie movie came up,
Speaker 2: and my voice doesn't sound like it now, but I
Speaker 2: was able to do a very good Hi Barbie, Hi Barbie,
Speaker 2: Hi Ken and the campers were like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 2: you sound just like her, and so they started calling
Speaker 2: me Barbie. And then I was showing them I really
Speaker 2: can do a very good walk on the tiptoes. How
Speaker 2: Barbie never, you know, flattens her feet. And it grew
Speaker 2: and grew, and then my wonderful co counselor, Beanie, and
Speaker 2: I got asked to co host the talent show and
Speaker 2: Beanie goes, oh my gosh, what if you're like stereotypical
Speaker 2: Barbie and I'm weird Barbie. We're like yes, And then
Speaker 2: we had our three judges Jesse and Hannah and Bays
Speaker 2: and we said, what if they're Kens? So they were Kens,
Speaker 2: and one of them was, I'm Ken and my job
Speaker 2: is Lake. I'm Ken and my job is bunk. Jesse
Speaker 2: runs the camp socials, so she was I'm Ken and
Speaker 2: my job is phone. And it was so wonderful. We
Speaker 2: got to be Barbie for all of camp. I've put
Speaker 2: some videos up on my social please check them out.
Speaker 2: And it was just hilarious because you know, listen, this
Speaker 2: talent show, like everything with Grief Camp, it isn't really
Speaker 2: about like a winner or a loser. So the Kens
Speaker 2: gave their job their feedback as Kens. I believe Hannah one.
Speaker 2: At one point one of the skits, the kids just
Speaker 2: poured water on each other. They were just being silly.
Speaker 2: But late Ken said, I loved all the water and
Speaker 2: it was great. So yeah, I got to be Barbie.
Speaker 2: And I really I should be thanking Experience Camps for
Speaker 2: letting me just act and be so much.
Speaker 1: I think I feel like I sent you off to camp.
Speaker 2: It was great. What was it like to not talk
Speaker 2: to me for a week?
Speaker 1: Unbearable?
Speaker 2: Wow, thanks for saying that.
Speaker 1: We really didn't get a chance to talk much, and
Speaker 1: I was I had to go to Well what made
Speaker 1: it even more difficult this week as I went to
Speaker 1: a friend's birthday that you obviously a mutual friend of ours.
Speaker 1: You were at camp and so I was the twenty
Speaker 1: ninth wheel at this wed.
Speaker 2: It's about sugared.
Speaker 1: At this birthday. Yeah, because we just talked about this
Speaker 1: on a podcast of you know, I thought those days
Speaker 1: were over.
Speaker 2: Being the single friend.
Speaker 1: But I went to Tucson to celebrate a friend's sixtieth
Speaker 1: birthday and everybody, of course, was couples, families, all that,
Speaker 1: and then there was me, but everybody welcome to me.
Speaker 1: And I tried to bring your energy of Barbie. I
Speaker 1: fell short, of course, But it is National Grief Awareness Day,
Speaker 1: which is why it's so apropos to have this discussion
Speaker 1: and dive into this and to help us out. Today
Speaker 1: we have a very special guest, Elsie. Why don't you
Speaker 1: introduce to our mystery guest today.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. For the grand finale, we are going
Speaker 2: right to the source of Experienced Camps. Welcome to Jesse Moss,
Speaker 2: Senior marketing manager at Experience Camps. And after this past week,
Speaker 2: I would now say my very dear friend, borderline family member.
Speaker 2: It's weird how close you get at grief camp, isn't it. Jesse?
Speaker 3: It's so true.
Speaker 4: I just look at you and I will always see
Speaker 4: you as Barbie, So you are forever ingrained.
Speaker 3: In my head.
Speaker 1: That's funny because I do the same thing, but for
Speaker 1: very different Porson.
Speaker 4: Was on her tiptoes for the Whole and Dire Talent
Speaker 4: Show and I was judged for it, and I was
Speaker 4: just like.
Speaker 3: This girl is commited to the bit. Was it was incredible?
Speaker 2: You were well, I should clarify yes, actually, maybe should
Speaker 2: have even introduced Jesse this way. Jesse was one of
Speaker 2: the judges. Jesse was phone Ken.
Speaker 1: Oh yes, I've seen videos.
Speaker 2: By the way, Jesse's job was phone okay, because she
Speaker 2: does all of these social media for experience. Camps has
Speaker 2: grown the TikTok too. I think almost one hundred and
Speaker 2: thirty thousand followers at this point. So incredible. So, Jesse,
Speaker 2: you do such great work. And we wanted to bring
Speaker 2: someone on from camp today because again today is National
Speaker 2: Grief Awareness Day, and wanted to bring in an expert
Speaker 2: to kind of help our audience with some takeaways on
Speaker 2: how to be more aware of Greek and also to
Speaker 2: raise the awareness of camp. So first I wanted to
Speaker 2: ask you because I've noticed some of my friends have
Speaker 2: asked me this, Why is experience camps called experience camps?
Speaker 4: It's a really, really great question. It actually started back
Speaker 4: in two thousand and nine as one program, a boys
Speaker 4: program in Maine, and it was at our now CEO's
Speaker 4: summer camp that she owned with her husband, and the
Speaker 4: name of the camp was Camp Manito and they just
Speaker 4: named it Manito Experience. They were going to have twenty
Speaker 4: nine kids there, twenty nine boys for a week. They
Speaker 4: had never done it before. And then at the end
Speaker 4: of the week, they all looked at each other when
Speaker 4: the kids left and kind of had this like holy
Speaker 4: moment of just like what the hell did we just do?
Speaker 4: Did we break these children? Like what happened? And I
Speaker 4: think after that they just received so many messages being
Speaker 4: like this was the best thing that ever happened to me.
Speaker 4: I feel I'm not alone now. You changed my life.
Speaker 4: And then they realized, like we need to keep going,
Speaker 4: and so they took it from Manitou Experience to broaden it.
Speaker 4: Now when they started opening new locations to be Experience Camps,
Speaker 4: because there were so many and this year we had
Speaker 4: twelve hundred kids, so up from twenty nine boys in
Speaker 4: Maine to over twelve hundred kids this summer.
Speaker 3: And there's six states.
Speaker 2: Wow, And are there even more applicants? Can you? Is
Speaker 2: there a max number we can take at this point?
Speaker 4: Yeah, we had a big wait list this year for
Speaker 4: campers and for volunteers, especially because of TikTok. You know,
Speaker 4: so many people. I think grief is already such an
Speaker 4: isolating experience and so places like you know, social media, TikTok, Instagram,
Speaker 4: all these places that like can do a lot of harm,
Speaker 4: also can do a lot of good for people because
Speaker 4: they can realize they're not alone. And that's what our
Speaker 4: programs do. Like that is one of our primary goals.
Speaker 4: So when people see it, they jump really quickly to
Speaker 4: want to be a part of it, because a lot
Speaker 4: of people in the real world aren't talking to them
Speaker 4: about their grief, aren't asking them questions, are aren't you know,
Speaker 4: thoughtful and intentional. So the second they see even if
Speaker 4: it's a dark humor video, which is my favorite kind
Speaker 4: of video to make, or these dark humor grief videos,
Speaker 4: because that's just who I am but you know, a
Speaker 4: lot of people want to be a part of it,
Speaker 4: and I don't blame them, and we want to bring
Speaker 4: in as many people as we can, but we do
Speaker 4: have a wait list and we do have a limit
Speaker 4: just because of sizing. We aim to grow every year.
Speaker 4: But luckily we have a lot of digital programs that
Speaker 4: we started sort of a silver lining during COVID. So
Speaker 4: we have like a grief camp in Minecraft for kids.
Speaker 4: So for all the kids that didn't get to go
Speaker 4: to physical camp, we you know, showed them what camp
Speaker 4: and Minecraft could look like. We have a program on
Speaker 4: roadblocks and really just the stat is and it's it's horrible,
Speaker 4: but the status six million kids will experience the death
Speaker 4: of a parent or sibling by the time they turn eighteen,
Speaker 4: and we served twelve hundred, which we're really excited about.
Speaker 3: But how do we.
Speaker 4: Reach those six million? And that's really the work we're
Speaker 4: trying to do well.
Speaker 2: And the way you just said it's an isolating experience,
Speaker 2: I think that's where I love it being called Experience Camp,
Speaker 2: because to me, it is the grief experience, and it's complicated,
Speaker 2: it's layered, it's different and yet similar for everybody. And
Speaker 2: that was a beautiful thing about camp is that you
Speaker 2: connected with people who understand this experience and also realize
Speaker 2: that everybody's experiences are different too. I wanted to ask
Speaker 2: you about where to donate because you just said, you
Speaker 2: know six million kids. Where can people donate so that
Speaker 2: we can help because they know experience. Camps is also
Speaker 2: looking to the future and potentially opening more locations if possible.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because eight months ago Lauren and I didn't know
Speaker 1: this thing existed, and so now we are involved, but
Speaker 1: would love to get everybody else involved.
Speaker 3: Yes, please, that would be great.
Speaker 4: So we every child that comes through our doors pays
Speaker 4: zero dollars to attend our programs, every single program, and
Speaker 4: we will forever keep it that way. It is so
Speaker 4: important to us because kids are already dealing with so
Speaker 4: much after the death of someone in their life. We
Speaker 4: never ever ever want money to be the reason someone
Speaker 4: does not have access to our resources. But because it
Speaker 4: is free, we do a lot of fundraising. So it
Speaker 4: actually cost us around twenty five hundred dollars per kid
Speaker 4: to send them to camp and then to have the
Speaker 4: programs that we offer throughout the year, which are like
Speaker 4: Camper reunions. We send them like a birthday postcard, we
Speaker 4: send them a holiday postcard, and we do like game
Speaker 4: show nights and things like that. You could donate on
Speaker 4: our website. It's Experience Caamps dot org slash donate. All
Speaker 4: the money goes, you know, to serving our kids and
Speaker 4: making sure our programs are running and we're growing. Like
Speaker 4: I said, we started with you know, twenty something kids
Speaker 4: in Maine in two thousand and nine, twelve hundred kids
Speaker 4: this year, and we have no plans to stop growing.
Speaker 4: We're hoping to open more camps in the future and
Speaker 4: do more digital programs to reach those six million kids.
Speaker 2: So, Jesse, we brought you on as an expert on
Speaker 2: many things from TikTok to grief. At this point, can
Speaker 2: you talk a little bit about your story how you
Speaker 2: got involved in Experienced Camps, because actually Jesse has an
Speaker 2: entertainment media like us. You even worked at EVE for
Speaker 2: a little while.
Speaker 3: I did.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I've been all over the place in my career.
Speaker 4: I always say I've lived like nine lives. But I
Speaker 4: came to Experience Camps after the death of my brother.
Speaker 4: His name was Jordan, and he died in twenty twelve
Speaker 4: by suicide and for so long, I didn't do anything.
Speaker 3: I didn't talk to anyone. No one talked to me.
Speaker 4: I didn't even really have a therapist, Like I just
Speaker 4: didn't know what to do, and the world told me
Speaker 4: I should be moving on, so I did. And it
Speaker 4: wasn't until twenty eighteen when someone told me about Experience
Speaker 4: Camps and I came as a volunteer that like my
Speaker 4: world was turned upside down. It was like some of
Speaker 4: the first moments where I said, you know, my brother died,
Speaker 4: this is how he died, this is who he was.
Speaker 3: And people didn't give me that.
Speaker 4: Like ooh, look that you usually get when somebody you
Speaker 4: know offers up information like that, and I just I
Speaker 4: sat there thinking like I need to live here forever,
Speaker 4: like I'm not leaving so hard to leave, and it's
Speaker 4: such a beautiful space and all of the people are amazing,
Speaker 4: and so I ended up applying for a full time job.
Speaker 4: This was in twenty eighteen, got hired as our national
Speaker 4: program manager, and it was it was incredible to sort
Speaker 4: of like flip the script on my life, not only
Speaker 4: like in my career, but with my grief too. I
Speaker 4: went from being surrounded by nobody who had experienced grief
Speaker 4: to being around everybody who had experience grief, and that
Speaker 4: is like earth shattering an amazing way. It's hard and
Speaker 4: it's sad, and there's so much grief, but like there's
Speaker 4: so much beauty in it too. And then in twenty
Speaker 4: twenty one, my mom died from a seizure, and having
Speaker 4: that experience was there are no words to explain the
Speaker 4: pain that came with that, but I will say being
Speaker 4: in this community, having experience camps, people around me like
Speaker 4: it was just different. It was just different. I felt seen,
Speaker 4: I felt supportive. People asked me questions. You know, there's
Speaker 4: no like right thing to say or right thing to do,
Speaker 4: but it felt like people were doing the right things
Speaker 4: and that was huge for me.
Speaker 1: It definitely seem like the counselors got as much, if
Speaker 1: not more, out of these camps than the kids dead.
Speaker 1: I know Lauren came back a changed woman, which almost
Speaker 1: so wonderful.
Speaker 2: You almost feel selfish saying it, but I mean, yeah,
Speaker 2: it is a two way street because you go there
Speaker 2: as a counselor and many not all, but I would
Speaker 2: say do you know this to SUGGESSI I percent of
Speaker 2: counselors had experienced a loss as well. So see she's
Speaker 2: on it, she knows. This is why we needed an expert.
Speaker 2: But you go there and people had different amounts of
Speaker 2: time that had been since their loss. Maybe they had
Speaker 2: different levels of therapy or help. But you, I think,
Speaker 2: just the the simple thing of being surrounded by other
Speaker 2: people who had experienced loss too. Like you said, I mean,
Speaker 2: I was in college when my dad died, so none
Speaker 2: of my but just none of my friends had had
Speaker 2: a loss at that point, and it was the first time. Still,
Speaker 2: at this point in my thirties, most people I know
Speaker 2: still have both their parents. So to be around other
Speaker 2: people who'd experienced significant loss for the first time is
Speaker 2: going to make you feel seen for the first time.
Speaker 2: And I yeah, I almost felt selfish in that way.
Speaker 2: So I just kept trying to give as much as
Speaker 2: I could and left camp exhausted because I thought, I
Speaker 2: have to give more than I'm taking from this.
Speaker 3: You're not selfish at all.
Speaker 4: It's so common to hear people say that, Like I
Speaker 4: used to part of my job, you know, a few
Speaker 4: years ago at experience camps, was interviewing all the volunteers,
Speaker 4: and I'd be like, why do you want.
Speaker 3: To do this time?
Speaker 4: After time after time. I want to transform the lives
Speaker 4: of kids. I want to transform the lives of kids,
Speaker 4: and I would I would just sort of laugh to
Speaker 4: myself and like, they don't know, they don't know that
Speaker 4: they're going to leave and they're going to be the
Speaker 4: ones that are transformed. And then you know exactly what
Speaker 4: you're saying. People come home and they're like, I'm different,
Speaker 4: and I feel seen, I feel hurt. You're just on
Speaker 4: a different wavelength when you've experienced the death of someone
Speaker 4: in your life, when you can be around people who
Speaker 4: are on that wavelength, it's just I got the chills
Speaker 4: thinking about it. It's just really incredible. So first pain
Speaker 4: and to purpose.
Speaker 1: So many people are hearing about this for the first time,
Speaker 1: and if they have suffered through this loss themselves and
Speaker 1: they're listening to this, or they have a child, talk
Speaker 1: about the age group, how they can get involved when
Speaker 1: these camps start. Are they throughout the year? As you said,
Speaker 1: they're in six different states now, so kind of give
Speaker 1: folks hearing about this for the first time details.
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely so.
Speaker 4: Our application process for twenty twenty four will open on
Speaker 4: November first on our website Experience Camps dot Org. So
Speaker 4: the kids that we take are going into fourth grade
Speaker 4: in the summer through going into twelfth grade in the summer,
Speaker 4: So that comes out to like nine to seventeen ish.
Speaker 4: For volunteers, you just have to be nineteen. You don't
Speaker 4: have to have experienced the depth of anyone in your
Speaker 4: life like you can come and just be a good
Speaker 4: person who wants to help. Those also open on November first,
Speaker 4: and then all of our camps are basically in August
Speaker 4: because we're using other camp facilities. We basically when their
Speaker 4: kids leave, we come in, so they all happen to
Speaker 4: be in August. So if you've got you know, a
Speaker 4: free week in August or this speaks to you definitely,
Speaker 4: you know, sign up for our newsletter, get your name
Speaker 4: in there on November first, because we fill it fast.
Speaker 2: Now, Jesse, I'm gonna throw a big question at you.
Speaker 2: But having gone through loss yourself and also working at
Speaker 2: experienced camps and around loss for years now, today is
Speaker 2: National Grief Awareness Day, what do you wish people were
Speaker 2: more aware of about grief? How long do you have
Speaker 2: that turns out, it turns out our entire lives because
Speaker 2: the grief process is never over.
Speaker 4: So but I'm ching that was gonna be one of
Speaker 4: my answers actually is you know a lot of people say,
Speaker 4: you know, a year later, like shouldn't you be moved
Speaker 4: on by now, like.
Speaker 3: That was a year ago, or even like.
Speaker 4: My brother died eleven years ago, and people are like,
Speaker 4: that's still effects you. That's something that like you deal with,
Speaker 4: that's a long time. A lot can happen in eleven years.
Speaker 4: But you're absolutely right, the grief process never ends. It's
Speaker 4: with us for life. And sometimes I've heard people say,
Speaker 4: like it gets worse as time goes on because you're
Speaker 4: missing them more or things are happening in your life
Speaker 4: where they're not present for And I think another thing
Speaker 4: that I would love to share with with your audiences
Speaker 4: is like, while there's no right way to show up
Speaker 4: for someone after someone dies in their life, and there's
Speaker 4: no perfect thing to say, there are things better than
Speaker 4: what you're probably currently going with. Like many of our
Speaker 4: kids say I'm sorry for your loss just doesn't work
Speaker 4: for them, you know, the classic like oh, I'm sorry
Speaker 4: for your loss, and then the kid has to be
Speaker 4: like it's okay or thanks, and they don't. They don't
Speaker 4: feel comfortable with that and even if you genuinely mean it,
Speaker 4: there's just some there are better things to say. You know,
Speaker 4: a lot of people will say something like let me
Speaker 4: know if there's anything I could do for you. But
Speaker 4: after my mom died, I got that like ten times
Speaker 4: and I'm like, okay, Paul from high school. Oh, I'll
Speaker 4: be sure to call you if.
Speaker 2: I need eggs.
Speaker 3: There's no you know, like what am I going to
Speaker 3: do with that?
Speaker 4: So I always tell people like, concrete things that you
Speaker 4: can do for someone are so important, Like you know
Speaker 4: you can ask them when you're ready. I would love
Speaker 4: to hear a story about your mom or I remember
Speaker 4: when you know we were kids, your mom did this,
Speaker 4: or as simple as hey, I'm going to go to
Speaker 4: the grocery store today. I'm going to get you eggs, milk,
Speaker 4: and butter, and if I don't care from you by
Speaker 4: three o'clock, I'll be at your house at three thirty.
Speaker 4: Just really concrete things that you can do for people
Speaker 4: really go a long way and make the person who's
Speaker 4: grieving feel seen and understood rather than sort of isolated
Speaker 4: and confused.
Speaker 1: Be proactive.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think a lot of what you're saying is
Speaker 2: a lot of response that people automatically go with like
Speaker 2: I'm sorry for your loss or what can I do
Speaker 2: to help? Puts the onus back on the grieving person.
Speaker 2: Like you said, then they have to comfort them and
Speaker 2: say oh, it's okay when it's not, or try it.
Speaker 2: They have to try to think of something or just
Speaker 2: say no, I don't need anything, when really they do.
Speaker 3: Totally.
Speaker 1: What about the timing of it, because Lorna and I
Speaker 1: were laughing, and I know some of the kids talked
Speaker 1: about this at camp. Look, locks and bagels are great
Speaker 1: that first week, the castle roles are wonderful.
Speaker 2: But this I had one camper say, gosh, that first
Speaker 2: week we ate like kings because and then another iconic
Speaker 2: quote from our bunk, a camper goes man, people really
Speaker 2: thought edible arrangements were going to cure my grief, but
Speaker 2: to dark humor, Jesse, dark humor.
Speaker 1: But to that joke, to that joke, is there something
Speaker 1: that we and I say we people that haven't experienced
Speaker 1: this and working with people who just lost somebody, is
Speaker 1: there a timing thing of week two, week three, week four,
Speaker 1: when the circus moves out of town and you are
Speaker 1: still sitting there with your grief.
Speaker 4: Yeah, It's an amazing question. And I actually saw stat
Speaker 4: recently that four kids specifically who are grieving, after three months,
Speaker 4: pretty much everyone disappears from their life. And there's a
Speaker 4: couple of things you can do. I think we go
Speaker 4: back to what we had just been talking about. Grief
Speaker 4: never ends, and so what can you do knowing grief
Speaker 4: never ends? So here are some things that I'll tell people.
Speaker 4: Is one, put that person's birthday and the day that
Speaker 4: they died in your calendar. Put it in your calendar
Speaker 4: and set it as a reoccurring calendar invite. So every
Speaker 4: year when that comes up, you know, I'm going to
Speaker 4: this person. Our lives get so busy, we're going to
Speaker 4: forget those days. Put it in your calendar, super important.
Speaker 4: And then the other thing is like a random Tuesday
Speaker 4: or a Sunday night, when like nothing is going on,
Speaker 4: reach out to that person, say something, ask for a story,
Speaker 4: tell them a story, interact with them, because those days,
Speaker 4: while the birthdays and the death ofversaries and three months
Speaker 4: in and one month in, those are excruciating. So it
Speaker 4: was like a Sunday three years in, Like I have
Speaker 4: a friend who still texts me asking me for stories
Speaker 4: about my mom my mom died over two years ago.
Speaker 3: So I think it's those.
Speaker 4: Random days check in consistently, the birthday, the death of versary.
Speaker 4: And then we've heard that holidays are really hard for people,
Speaker 4: you know, especially if someone's missing at the table or
Speaker 4: they used to go to this person's house that died.
Speaker 4: Those days can be really hard. And then of course
Speaker 4: Mother's Day, Father's Day. I always used to joke like
Speaker 4: National Siblings Day seems to be every month or is
Speaker 4: it just me watching all these people post pictures of
Speaker 4: their siblings, And I'm like, well, I know that, so
Speaker 4: there's days, but also it's like all the time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's the griefs. Yeah, that's probably one
Speaker 2: of the biggest things for me. Is and I actually
Speaker 2: remember telling you this, babe in our relationship is I
Speaker 2: like actively told you I want to talk about my
Speaker 2: dad because I think people assume, you know, even if
Speaker 2: even if they know you've had a loss, and I
Speaker 2: know they're coming from a place of trying to be sensitive,
Speaker 2: but if I bring up my dad, I've noticed friends
Speaker 2: will sort of you can physically see them tends up
Speaker 2: a little bit, get on edge, and then they don't
Speaker 2: know what to say, and and then you almost have
Speaker 2: to say, look, I'm not trying to bring the mood down,
Speaker 2: like I want to talk about my dad. I want
Speaker 2: to still tell stories about him. If he was here,
Speaker 2: I would still be, you know, saying, oh, Dad, remember
Speaker 2: when you did this, So you don't want to lose
Speaker 2: those memories. I love that people still text you asking
Speaker 2: for stories about your mom. I would love it if
Speaker 2: somebody thought about my dad and my family, like send
Speaker 2: that textile, let's keep his memory alive.
Speaker 1: And people are worried you're going to kind of, you know,
Speaker 1: rip that scabble.
Speaker 2: They're worried they're going to upset you. Yeah, I think, Yeah.
Speaker 4: It's interesting that you say that, and I've gotten that
Speaker 4: a lot, Like I don't want to make you sad.
Speaker 4: And my reaction is like I'm already yeah, you.
Speaker 1: Know, my mom died.
Speaker 4: I'm ready said, my mom literally died. I'm sorry, random friend, Like,
Speaker 4: you're not going to be more sad, and it exists
Speaker 4: in me. My grief is me. I am my grief,
Speaker 4: so like if that is a part of me, Like
Speaker 4: I can't get more sad than I already am. Like sure,
Speaker 4: maybe I'm having the best day ever. But if you
Speaker 4: text me asking me about my mom, it actually makes
Speaker 4: me happy because it feels like her memory is living
Speaker 4: on rather than people just ignoring it. So I think
Speaker 4: that's really important. It's like we're already sad, don't worry
Speaker 4: about it.
Speaker 2: It was interesting to hear some of the kids talk
Speaker 2: about the way that they talk about their parents. Some
Speaker 2: of them said that when they meet people, and I
Speaker 2: used to do this too, when they meet people for
Speaker 2: the first time, they actually pretend their parents is alive
Speaker 2: because they don't want to get into the complexity of
Speaker 2: explaining it to a new person, and then they'll just
Speaker 2: end up comforting that new person. So yeah, I think
Speaker 2: one of the biggest takeaways too, is just that initial reaction,
Speaker 2: like you said, maybe instead of tensing up and saying, oh,
Speaker 2: I'm sorry for your loss, if someone tells you that,
Speaker 2: say hey, thanks for sharing that. Gosh, you know what
Speaker 2: was your dad's name or you know what was he like,
Speaker 2: and it really can just totally change not just the conversation,
Speaker 2: but a person's whole perception of you.
Speaker 1: So yeah, well, you too have given people a lot
Speaker 1: of tools. So it is National Grief Day. So if
Speaker 1: you are listening to this podcast, and you know somebody
Speaker 1: who has lost somebody, reach out today, ask them for
Speaker 1: a story, ask them to tell you something about the
Speaker 1: person they lost, or you tell a story like we
Speaker 1: have given you the tools, do something today, make that
Speaker 1: a point and being National Grief Day before we let
Speaker 1: you go. Is there something you want to say to
Speaker 1: the masses and everybody listening today?
Speaker 3: So much, Chris, so much.
Speaker 4: But you know, I think grief is I know, grief
Speaker 4: is something that is going to happen to one hundred
Speaker 4: percent of us, one hundred percent. Not one person on
Speaker 4: this earth will be spared. So the sooner we start
Speaker 4: talking about it and making it less taboo and showing
Speaker 4: up for the people in our lives, the more comfortable
Speaker 4: will feel. It'll still be excruciating when it happens. It
Speaker 4: will still be the worst experience like you may ever
Speaker 4: have in your life. But if we stop making grief
Speaker 4: so taboo and we can have those conversations and we
Speaker 4: can stop making those like ooh faces when someone tells
Speaker 4: us that, the better prepared we are for when it
Speaker 4: happens to us. So I think, like Chris said, like
Speaker 4: it's simple, It's really really simple. Like one step today
Speaker 4: take one step today. Send out a text, even if
Speaker 4: it's just a heart I'm thinking of you. Send send
Speaker 4: that one tiny, tiny moment, and the sooner we're able
Speaker 4: to talk about it and make it less taboo, the
Speaker 4: better our world will really be.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Jesse, thanks for your time. Again.
Speaker 2: It's experience camps dot org. You can learn more about
Speaker 2: the camps there. You can donate their follow Experience Camps
Speaker 2: on Instagram and TikTok and Jesse, in honor of you,
Speaker 2: I think we're just going to end this interview with
Speaker 2: one of your wonderfully dark humored tiktoks. We're going to
Speaker 2: play out you with the slogans that this summer you
Speaker 2: had kids come up with new slogans for grief camp.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Jesse, You're so welcome here.
Speaker 4: They are asking kids new grief camp slogans Peep dying,
Speaker 4: wee vibe in.
Speaker 1: Let's family, more friends die, laugh and love be all
Speaker 1: smiles for grieving child.
Speaker 2: Damn it, years and overcoming fears came to grief, didn't
Speaker 2: want to leave, weeping sorrows, happy tomorrows obsessed. I think
Speaker 2: my favorite one was less family, more friends, looks.
Speaker 1: That surprised me as someone who has not dealt with
Speaker 1: this like you have the laughter and the jokes and
Speaker 1: all that, because it's for for us, it's something that's
Speaker 1: so taboo we would not want to, you know, it'd
Speaker 1: be like tiptoeing on glass.
Speaker 2: Well, one thing we all talked about at camp is
Speaker 2: how wild is it that grief is a guaranteed experience
Speaker 2: in every human being on this planet's life, and yet
Speaker 2: we are not educated about it in school. We are
Speaker 2: not not only not educated about how to experience grief ourselves,
Speaker 2: but how to talk to someone who's experienced grief. There
Speaker 2: is no real discussion of grief in school, like you
Speaker 2: learn sex said, but you don't learn death ed and
Speaker 2: so experience CAM just bringing that awareness through their social
Speaker 2: through the camps itself, is really doing work that we
Speaker 2: should all be getting. And it was interesting for me
Speaker 2: because grief is again, it's always with us, and that's okay.
Speaker 2: Like I want to remember my dad, and I think
Speaker 2: a takeaway I had from camp this week was I
Speaker 2: was surprised by how much I cried it in my mind.
Speaker 2: You know, it had been thirteen years since I lost
Speaker 2: my dad, and I have done a lot of healing
Speaker 2: I feel confident in saying that I'm not in the
Speaker 2: same place that I was when he first died, and
Speaker 2: I want to tell people that the phrase time heals
Speaker 2: and this too shall pass, like grief does get better,
Speaker 2: it does get easier. It is not this hopeless, endless
Speaker 2: road of sadness. But I was reminded this week that
Speaker 2: it's important to still kind of think about that pain.
Speaker 2: I thought, I'm very healed and and I don't really
Speaker 2: have those big, deep cries that I used to have.
Speaker 2: But I was shocked in our sharing circles that we
Speaker 2: did every day this week, and in our campfires. We
Speaker 2: had three campfires during the week. We're at campfire, you
Speaker 2: hear letters from some campers that they've written to their
Speaker 2: lost person, or even at the very last campfire, every
Speaker 2: single camper gets up and says who their person was
Speaker 2: that they lost and maybe says something about them. I
Speaker 2: was surprised that I cried every single time when I
Speaker 2: started talking about my dad, and I won't, and it
Speaker 2: really made me realize that I need to make a
Speaker 2: little space to cry about him sometimes, like that's okay
Speaker 2: when someone is that that powerful of a force in
Speaker 2: your life, your parent, like You're still going to feel
Speaker 2: that sadness, and it's important and to feel that sadness.
Speaker 2: And I'm really grateful that Camp reminded me of that
Speaker 2: this week. And loss is complicated.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: We had people who had lost parents who were abusive,
Speaker 2: so maybe they aren't missing that person. Maybe that loss
Speaker 2: was in some ways a relief, but it's still painful.
Speaker 2: We had people who lost parents they'd never known, maybe
Speaker 2: their parents died before they were ever born. But a
Speaker 2: beautiful thing about Camp was, no matter what your loss is,
Speaker 2: we respect the differences in grief, and we celebrate that
Speaker 2: some of those experiences that think qualities about those experiences
Speaker 2: are similar and bind us all and unite us all
Speaker 2: before we go.
Speaker 1: I think we'd be remiss if you didn't tell us
Speaker 1: a quick story about your dad.
Speaker 2: One story that I shared this week. We had a
Speaker 2: great activity in our sharing circles where the kids got
Speaker 2: given a blank puzzle and they could draw on the puzzle,
Speaker 2: and the idea was, what are the pieces of that
Speaker 2: person that you remember or that matter to you? What
Speaker 2: are pieces of the puzzle of grief interpreted how you want.
Speaker 2: I'm really bad at drawing, but I just drew music
Speaker 2: notes and I tried to draw stage, which was just
Speaker 2: a hater walk. My dad and I, like probably a
Speaker 2: lot of people relate to driving their kids around. I
Speaker 2: know you've talked about how driving the kids, being their
Speaker 2: uber driver before they get their license, is such quality
Speaker 2: important time in the car where you kind of get
Speaker 2: them to yourself and you get to hear about their
Speaker 2: day and they're they're actually listening to you and a
Speaker 2: captive audience. My dad and I used to He would
Speaker 2: pick me up. He was always the picker up er
Speaker 2: after you know, me being at a friend's house and
Speaker 2: we would listen to Frank Sinatra and we would talk,
Speaker 2: and Frank Sinatra was our thing and one of my
Speaker 2: favorite memories. I can't believe I have this memory, but
Speaker 2: when I was four, my dad took me to see
Speaker 2: Frank Sinatra. My first concert was Frank Sinatra, and I
Speaker 2: remember he picked me up and sat me on his
Speaker 2: lap so I could see. And the fact that like
Speaker 2: even that I was four years old and he was
Speaker 2: taking the time to have that experience with me. I'm
Speaker 2: so grateful for it that I had a dad like that.
Speaker 2: I'm so grateful that even for the short amount of
Speaker 2: time I had him that I had a dad who
Speaker 2: showed me love and who taught me love, and you know,
Speaker 2: not everybody has that, and I saw that this week,
Speaker 2: So I'm very grateful.
Speaker 1: A contest that Lauren will never lose to anyone I know.
Speaker 1: And that is when you asked the question what was
Speaker 1: your first concert? And she says, Frank Sinatra, it's pretty dope,
Speaker 1: walk away, you're dode.
Speaker 2: Actually, if I may quote one of our campers to
Speaker 2: end this podcast, because it's relevant to that puzzle, that
Speaker 2: was the activity we made. Again, please donate to Experience
Speaker 2: Camps if you're able, reach out to me if you'd
Speaker 2: like more information about the camp, or to the camp themselves,
Speaker 2: or if you just want to talk about grief. I'd
Speaker 2: love to hear everybody's stories. But we had a camper
Speaker 2: who said, everybody in our bunk is important. You know,
Speaker 2: some of us are more quiet, some of us are louder.
Speaker 2: She said, I'm not calling anybody out. We're different, but
Speaker 2: we are all an important piece of this puzzle, and
Speaker 2: we're perfect as we are, and our counselors are the
Speaker 2: glue that's holding this puzzle together. And she really sent
Speaker 2: me with that one saying that they were all perfect
Speaker 2: as they are. It was so beautiful because I thought
Speaker 2: these kids are learning more about more about grief. They're
Speaker 2: learning to love each other as flawed and as wonderful,
Speaker 2: and to celebrate each other. It was amazing.
Speaker 1: Well, I love you, I'm proud of you. What an
Speaker 1: incredible week and you can go to experience camps dot
Speaker 1: org learn more about it. This is National Grief Awareness Day,
Speaker 1: So as we said while we were talking to Jesse,
Speaker 1: take a moment, reach out to those people today who
Speaker 1: have lost somebody and be proactive and just know that
Speaker 1: we're thinking about you as well. We love you, you
Speaker 1: are loved, and we will talk to you again very
Speaker 1: soon because we have a lot more to talk about.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. Follow us on Instagram at the most
Speaker 1: Dramatic pod ever and make sure to write us a
Speaker 1: review and leave us five stars. I'll talk to you
Speaker 1: next time.