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Speaker 1: This is the most traumatic podcast ever and iHeartRadio podcast.

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Speaker 1: Chris Harrison and Lauren Zema coming to you today from

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Speaker 1: a spectacular location. We couldn't be further from Austin, Texas.

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Speaker 2: Literally, I'm looking out at the ocean. I'm feeling blessed, shining,

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Speaker 2: shimmer rings splendid, and I'm really happy after having just

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Speaker 2: come off of a week about death.

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Speaker 1: We are in Maine for a very specific reason. We

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Speaker 1: are in specifically Ognquit, Maine. Yes, Ogunquit, Maine, just out

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Speaker 1: of Portland, Maine. We're up here because Elz has been

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Speaker 1: up here working for a week. Explain to us why

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Speaker 1: we're in Maine, why you were in Maine. I talked

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Speaker 1: a little bit last week you weren't around, and some

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Speaker 1: Mariama Nunos was nice enough to fill in. I was

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Speaker 1: explaining to everybody, Oh, you were talking about we were,

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Speaker 1: of course, you know, I can't get through a week

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Speaker 1: without talking about you, but just how special this week was,

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Speaker 1: and I wanted you to tell this story. So I

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Speaker 1: didn't fill anybody in. But now we can divulge where

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Speaker 1: you have been and why we're in Maine.

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Speaker 2: Yes, So we have saved this podcast for today, which

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Speaker 2: is actually National Grief Awareness Day. It's perfect timing. I've

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Speaker 2: just come off of a week of volunteering at a camp,

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Speaker 2: a summer camp for children who specifically have experienced a

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Speaker 2: major loss in their lives, the loss of a parent,

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Speaker 2: or of a sibling, or, if not a parent, their

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Speaker 2: primary caregiver. This is a camp an organization, a nonprofit

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Speaker 2: called Experience Camps. You will notice my voice is still gone.

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Speaker 2: After a week of screaming and yelling and laughing with

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Speaker 2: kids NonStop from seven am till midnight every day, the

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Speaker 2: voice has failed me again. But Experience Camps was incredible.

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Speaker 2: They have multiple locations. I based on our schedules, was

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Speaker 2: put at the camp in Maine, camp called Summerset Camp

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Speaker 2: for Girls, so this was an all girls camp that

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Speaker 2: Experienced Camps does week long camps for girls for boys,

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Speaker 2: and it was just incredible. Basically, how the camp works

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Speaker 2: is that the idea is kids who have experienced major

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Speaker 2: loss are going to be able to come to a

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Speaker 2: place with other kids who have experienced major loss, and

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Speaker 2: that's very rare for them. Right. I lost my dad

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Speaker 2: when I was in college, and I was the first

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Speaker 2: person I knew who had experienced loss. So imagine if

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Speaker 2: a child is nine years old or twelve years old,

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Speaker 2: how few kids they know who have So they're able

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Speaker 2: to come to this camp and be around other kids

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Speaker 2: who have experienced loss, be comfortable in their grief, talk

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Speaker 2: about their grief. Yes, laugh about their grief, because grief

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Speaker 2: can't be funny. Can be funny. If we're not laughing,

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Speaker 2: we're crying, so it's good to laugh. And then the

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Speaker 2: way it works is every single day we do something

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Speaker 2: called a sharing circle with a grief specialist with the kids.

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Speaker 2: That's a place where for about an hour they can

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Speaker 2: talk about their grief, get a little bit of you know,

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Speaker 2: counseling on their grief, advice and feedback and help and love.

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Speaker 2: And then for the rest of the time it's camp.

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Speaker 2: It's fun. It's fun. It's a place for them to escape.

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Speaker 2: They do activities. They do soccer and arts and crafts

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Speaker 2: and water skiing and.

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Speaker 1: That drama as well theater.

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Speaker 2: Come on, okay, we'll get into it. I did teach

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Speaker 2: drama every day. Very excitingly. The camp asked I what

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Speaker 2: my experience was, and I said, I got nothing on

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Speaker 2: sports on sports, but I do of acting. So they

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Speaker 2: let me for the first time teach drama at the camp.

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Speaker 1: Every day, can I ask you? And it was wonderful

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Speaker 1: before we jump into the nuts and bolts of this camp.

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Speaker 1: And there are a many, many reasons why I love you.

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Speaker 1: But oh god, I need to explain to everybody how

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Speaker 1: this happened, because it is I wish it was more normal,

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Speaker 1: but it's not normal what you did and how you

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Speaker 1: found this camp. We're going to get involved in supporting

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Speaker 1: this camp. And then all of a sudden came to

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Speaker 1: me and said, I'm leaving for a week. I'm moving

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Speaker 1: to Maine because now I'm a camp counselor. Again, There's

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Speaker 1: something that moves me about you is you don't just

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Speaker 1: talk about something. You through everything at this Oh wow,

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Speaker 1: how did this happen? How did you learn about Experience Camp?

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Speaker 3: Well?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it is weird to be in your thirties and

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Speaker 2: say to people this summer, I'm going to be a

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Speaker 2: camp counselor. So I usually post about my dad. I

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Speaker 2: lost my dad when I was in college. My little

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Speaker 2: sister was also in college, and my brother was in

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Speaker 2: high school. He had been sick, but then he had

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Speaker 2: what they call the widow Maker heart attack. That's the

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Speaker 2: big one, you're not getting through it. And so it

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Speaker 2: was in many ways sudden, and you know, it broke

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Speaker 2: my family and we have pulled through. There are so

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Speaker 2: many silver linings about grief. I think in many ways,

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Speaker 2: grief made me a better person. I look back at

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Speaker 2: the kid I was in high school in college and

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Speaker 2: like I was kind of worse. It gives you wonderful

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Speaker 2: perspective at a young age, and so over the years

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Speaker 2: on Instagram, I have usually posted about my dad. On

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Speaker 2: the anniversary of his death, I'll try to talk about

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Speaker 2: what I've learned about grief this year. A takeaway because

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Speaker 2: grief is a process that's life long. It's always with you,

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Speaker 2: and it's always changing, and the loss of someone you

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Speaker 2: love deeply never leaves you, and that's okay. It also

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Speaker 2: gives us wonderful again perspective on life and perspective on joy.

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Speaker 2: So I got a message from a follower, and I've

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Speaker 2: tried so hard to find this message. So if you

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Speaker 2: were this person, please DM me again. A message from

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Speaker 2: a follower that said, I know you always post about

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Speaker 2: your dad. I feel like you need to know about

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Speaker 2: this camp, and they sent me info about Experience Camp. Said, oh,

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Speaker 2: my gosh. My first reaction was, I wish I'd known

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Speaker 2: about this camp sooner. The first camp was back in

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Speaker 2: two thousand and nine, and honestly I would have pushed

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Speaker 2: my little brother to go back then because we lost

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Speaker 2: my dad in twenty ten, and so I reached out

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Speaker 2: to the camp. I think they very gently at first,

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Speaker 2: were like, I said, I'd love to be involved in

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Speaker 2: some way, and they were like, so, yeah, would you

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Speaker 2: like to come see the camp for an afternoon? Would

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Speaker 2: you like, like, what would you like to do something

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Speaker 2: on zoom? What would you like to do? And I said, well,

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Speaker 2: can I come be a counselor for a week? I

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Speaker 2: think they were surprised, but very happy and welcoming, and

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Speaker 2: they fit me into Maine, and I'm so grateful they did,

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Speaker 2: because not only was it I mean I went into it,

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Speaker 2: people call it the best week ever. I went into

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Speaker 2: it hoping maybe I'll have a positive impact on one kid,

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Speaker 2: That's my hope. But instead I walked away thinking that

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Speaker 2: was a perfect week. It couldn't have gone better. We laughed,

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Speaker 2: we cried. I felt so close to these kids and

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Speaker 2: it was wonderful.

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Speaker 1: I barely got to talk to you much because phone

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Speaker 1: and you're not supposed to have your phone and all that,

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Speaker 1: But let me just say when I did get a

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Speaker 1: chance to talk to you and I could hear your

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Speaker 1: horst voice, I could just tell the impact this camp,

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Speaker 1: these kids, the other counselors were having on you. And

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Speaker 1: it's almost as if you went to a camp as well.

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Speaker 1: You just seem like a changed woman. And the best

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Speaker 1: thing I heard from you, I've never been happier, you said.

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Speaker 1: And I know that sounds weird. You're at a grief

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Speaker 1: camp and.

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Speaker 2: I don't even remember saying.

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Speaker 1: You're like, I'm just so happy, and you were kind

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Speaker 1: of crying, you were laughing. It just seemed like such

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Speaker 1: a beautiful experience. And when I saw you yesterday, because

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Speaker 1: we finally just met up again as you were at

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Speaker 1: this camp and I flew up here to Maine to

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Speaker 1: meet you, you just had this glow about you.

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Speaker 2: Well, there's I've always felt there's something first of all,

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Speaker 2: really special about all my love to you as my partner,

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Speaker 2: but being around other women. So I think it's awesome

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Speaker 2: that the camp does girls camps and boys camps. It's

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Speaker 2: a very comfortable space and to be around like, look,

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Speaker 2: first of all, a group of women gets ish done.

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Speaker 2: This camp was so organized. Shout out to Rachel who

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Speaker 2: was the director of the camp. So organized, so well

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Speaker 2: run set up structurally for support and for joy there.

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Speaker 2: One of the camp chants was that was awesome and

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Speaker 2: we would chant it for We did a talent show one.

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Speaker 1: Night and ran you hosted the talent show. Did that's Barbie?

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Speaker 2: Well, yes, we'll get into that. But but even if

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Speaker 2: a bunk's talent, even if a bunks act didn't go

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Speaker 2: super great, we chanted that was awesome because it was

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Speaker 2: such a supportive place and everything everybody did was great,

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Speaker 2: and it was just a place where like the power

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Speaker 2: of being able to be comfortable about grief, and these

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Speaker 2: kids talked about that that you know normally in their

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Speaker 2: lives they even have to comfort adults about grief, like

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Speaker 2: a kid will say, oh, my died, and an adult

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Speaker 2: tenses up and doesn't know what to say. And so

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Speaker 2: for these kids to be able to be comfortable and

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Speaker 2: also for the adults like we're often having I remember

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Speaker 2: when I first started dating after my dad died. Look,

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Speaker 2: it's very normal people. A guy would say on a date,

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Speaker 2: So what do your parents do and where do they

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Speaker 2: live and then I have to say, well, you know,

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Speaker 2: my mom lives in Chicago, and then where's your dad, Well,

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Speaker 2: my dad's dead, and then they're like oh, and then

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Speaker 2: you're like, no, it's fine, I'm fine, and really you're

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Speaker 2: not fine, but you don't want to scare somebody off.

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Speaker 2: So just to be comfortable in grief was really powerful.

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Speaker 2: And then to like laugh, I got to give a

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Speaker 2: shout out to my bunk the colts. They were so special,

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Speaker 2: my co counselors Heather and Cat and Carly, and our

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Speaker 2: bunk campers. We had the triplets. We had Nellie and

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Speaker 2: Ico and Cammy and Kia and Hayden and Daisy and

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Speaker 2: Jaden and Judith, and they were so so wonderful. Was

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Speaker 2: blessed to have kids who had been to camp before.

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Speaker 2: To see the way that they that camp had affected them.

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Speaker 3: How.

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Speaker 2: Developed they were as eighth graders in their emotional intelligence

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Speaker 2: was so wonderful, and like, at the end of the day,

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Speaker 2: these are kids at camp. In the morning we would

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Speaker 2: sometimes cry and laugh about our uh we had a

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Speaker 2: lot of dead dads. Shout out to the Dead Dad's Club.

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Speaker 2: And then late at night like they were farting and

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Speaker 2: being silly and like practicing their act for the talent

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Speaker 2: show and it was wonderful.

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Speaker 1: And it is and I want to express something you

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Speaker 1: told me, because honestly, when I heard grief camp, I'm like, okay,

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Speaker 1: So they get together for a week and just live

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Speaker 1: in their grief and tell you it's like, no, it's

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Speaker 1: a camp. Yes they are. Everyone has this shared grief,

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Speaker 1: but this is a camp as well. And they're going

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Speaker 1: water skiing and they're playing soccer and arts and crafts

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Speaker 1: and all the camp things. It's just they have this

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Speaker 1: one singular thing that unites them and made it so beautiful.

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Speaker 2: And honestly, I have tried over the years, like look,

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Speaker 2: I did improv comedy for a long time, and that

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Speaker 2: was what I taught this week at camp, improv comedy

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Speaker 2: for my drama class. Thank you to Experience Camps for

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Speaker 2: letting myself. Bays who's a wonderful Broadway star, and Beanie,

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Speaker 2: who's an incredible actress. We got to kind of pilot

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Speaker 2: the drama program. We each taught drama every single day,

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Speaker 2: and I did improv comedy with the kids because improv

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Speaker 2: is about support. The one rule of improv is you

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Speaker 2: don't say no you say yes, and and that was

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Speaker 2: what camp was about too, and look, you gotta laugh

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Speaker 2: about it. My bunk cracked me up. We had great

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Speaker 2: conversations where like, look the triplets, their dad died of

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Speaker 2: a widow maker too. I said, hey, hi, five for

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Speaker 2: a widow maker. You know, it happens. And we just

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Speaker 2: had some really funny moments like I remember one of

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Speaker 2: my campers shared that when she first found out her

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Speaker 2: dad died, her mom told her at night, and her

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Speaker 2: mom had just come back from a business trip and

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Speaker 2: usually her mom would be her a teddy bear, and

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Speaker 2: so she thought she was getting like a teddy bear

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Speaker 2: from her mom's business trip, and she goes, I thought

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Speaker 2: it was teddy bear time. I soon realized it was

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Speaker 2: not teddybear time. So these kids are able to laugh

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Speaker 2: about it, and you know, that's what life's about, right,

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Speaker 2: is about finding the joy. So I was so impressed

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Speaker 2: with that. They were, you know, here to cry, here

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Speaker 2: to laugh, and that's what connects us all, are those

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Speaker 2: shared human emotions. So grief camp shouldn't be scary, and

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Speaker 2: it wasn't at all.

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Speaker 1: And speaking of joy, as you brought many people joy

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Speaker 1: at camp this week. As Barbie how did you get

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Speaker 1: the moniker Barbie again?

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Speaker 2: My colts the bunk I had, so I don't even

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Speaker 2: fully remember how it started. I had brought a pink

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Speaker 2: hat to camp, and then another counselor I'd forgotten a

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Speaker 2: fanny pack, and fanny packs are big at camp, and

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Speaker 2: another counselor, Hannah, had an extra one and she let

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Speaker 2: me wear her pink fanny pack. So I was wearing pink.

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Speaker 2: And then I think some the Barbie movie came up,

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Speaker 2: and my voice doesn't sound like it now, but I

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Speaker 2: was able to do a very good Hi Barbie, Hi Barbie,

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Speaker 2: Hi Ken and the campers were like, oh my gosh,

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Speaker 2: you sound just like her, and so they started calling

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Speaker 2: me Barbie. And then I was showing them I really

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Speaker 2: can do a very good walk on the tiptoes. How

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Speaker 2: Barbie never, you know, flattens her feet. And it grew

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Speaker 2: and grew, and then my wonderful co counselor, Beanie, and

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Speaker 2: I got asked to co host the talent show and

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Speaker 2: Beanie goes, oh my gosh, what if you're like stereotypical

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Speaker 2: Barbie and I'm weird Barbie. We're like yes, And then

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Speaker 2: we had our three judges Jesse and Hannah and Bays

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Speaker 2: and we said, what if they're Kens? So they were Kens,

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Speaker 2: and one of them was, I'm Ken and my job

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Speaker 2: is Lake. I'm Ken and my job is bunk. Jesse

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Speaker 2: runs the camp socials, so she was I'm Ken and

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Speaker 2: my job is phone. And it was so wonderful. We

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Speaker 2: got to be Barbie for all of camp. I've put

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Speaker 2: some videos up on my social please check them out.

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Speaker 2: And it was just hilarious because you know, listen, this

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Speaker 2: talent show, like everything with Grief Camp, it isn't really

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Speaker 2: about like a winner or a loser. So the Kens

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Speaker 2: gave their job their feedback as Kens. I believe Hannah one.

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Speaker 2: At one point one of the skits, the kids just

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Speaker 2: poured water on each other. They were just being silly.

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Speaker 2: But late Ken said, I loved all the water and

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Speaker 2: it was great. So yeah, I got to be Barbie.

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Speaker 2: And I really I should be thanking Experience Camps for

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Speaker 2: letting me just act and be so much.

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Speaker 1: I think I feel like I sent you off to camp.

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Speaker 2: It was great. What was it like to not talk

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Speaker 2: to me for a week?

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Speaker 1: Unbearable?

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Speaker 2: Wow, thanks for saying that.

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Speaker 1: We really didn't get a chance to talk much, and

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Speaker 1: I was I had to go to Well what made

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Speaker 1: it even more difficult this week as I went to

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Speaker 1: a friend's birthday that you obviously a mutual friend of ours.

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Speaker 1: You were at camp and so I was the twenty

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Speaker 1: ninth wheel at this wed.

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Speaker 2: It's about sugared.

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Speaker 1: At this birthday. Yeah, because we just talked about this

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Speaker 1: on a podcast of you know, I thought those days

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Speaker 1: were over.

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Speaker 2: Being the single friend.

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Speaker 1: But I went to Tucson to celebrate a friend's sixtieth

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Speaker 1: birthday and everybody, of course, was couples, families, all that,

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Speaker 1: and then there was me, but everybody welcome to me.

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Speaker 1: And I tried to bring your energy of Barbie. I

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Speaker 1: fell short, of course, But it is National Grief Awareness Day,

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Speaker 1: which is why it's so apropos to have this discussion

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Speaker 1: and dive into this and to help us out. Today

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Speaker 1: we have a very special guest, Elsie. Why don't you

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Speaker 1: introduce to our mystery guest today.

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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. For the grand finale, we are going

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Speaker 2: right to the source of Experienced Camps. Welcome to Jesse Moss,

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Speaker 2: Senior marketing manager at Experience Camps. And after this past week,

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Speaker 2: I would now say my very dear friend, borderline family member.

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Speaker 2: It's weird how close you get at grief camp, isn't it. Jesse?

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Speaker 3: It's so true.

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Speaker 4: I just look at you and I will always see

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Speaker 4: you as Barbie, So you are forever ingrained.

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Speaker 3: In my head.

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Speaker 1: That's funny because I do the same thing, but for

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Speaker 1: very different Porson.

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Speaker 4: Was on her tiptoes for the Whole and Dire Talent

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Speaker 4: Show and I was judged for it, and I was

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Speaker 4: just like.

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Speaker 3: This girl is commited to the bit. Was it was incredible?

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Speaker 2: You were well, I should clarify yes, actually, maybe should

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Speaker 2: have even introduced Jesse this way. Jesse was one of

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Speaker 2: the judges. Jesse was phone Ken.

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Speaker 1: Oh yes, I've seen videos.

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Speaker 2: By the way, Jesse's job was phone okay, because she

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Speaker 2: does all of these social media for experience. Camps has

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Speaker 2: grown the TikTok too. I think almost one hundred and

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Speaker 2: thirty thousand followers at this point. So incredible. So, Jesse,

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Speaker 2: you do such great work. And we wanted to bring

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Speaker 2: someone on from camp today because again today is National

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Speaker 2: Grief Awareness Day, and wanted to bring in an expert

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Speaker 2: to kind of help our audience with some takeaways on

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Speaker 2: how to be more aware of Greek and also to

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Speaker 2: raise the awareness of camp. So first I wanted to

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Speaker 2: ask you because I've noticed some of my friends have

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Speaker 2: asked me this, Why is experience camps called experience camps?

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Speaker 4: It's a really, really great question. It actually started back

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Speaker 4: in two thousand and nine as one program, a boys

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Speaker 4: program in Maine, and it was at our now CEO's

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Speaker 4: summer camp that she owned with her husband, and the

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Speaker 4: name of the camp was Camp Manito and they just

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Speaker 4: named it Manito Experience. They were going to have twenty

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Speaker 4: nine kids there, twenty nine boys for a week. They

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Speaker 4: had never done it before. And then at the end

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Speaker 4: of the week, they all looked at each other when

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Speaker 4: the kids left and kind of had this like holy

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Speaker 4: moment of just like what the hell did we just do?

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Speaker 4: Did we break these children? Like what happened? And I

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Speaker 4: think after that they just received so many messages being

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Speaker 4: like this was the best thing that ever happened to me.

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Speaker 4: I feel I'm not alone now. You changed my life.

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Speaker 4: And then they realized, like we need to keep going,

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Speaker 4: and so they took it from Manitou Experience to broaden it.

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Speaker 4: Now when they started opening new locations to be Experience Camps,

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Speaker 4: because there were so many and this year we had

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Speaker 4: twelve hundred kids, so up from twenty nine boys in

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Speaker 4: Maine to over twelve hundred kids this summer.

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Speaker 3: And there's six states.

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Speaker 2: Wow, And are there even more applicants? Can you? Is

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Speaker 2: there a max number we can take at this point?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, we had a big wait list this year for

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Speaker 4: campers and for volunteers, especially because of TikTok. You know,

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Speaker 4: so many people. I think grief is already such an

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Speaker 4: isolating experience and so places like you know, social media, TikTok, Instagram,

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Speaker 4: all these places that like can do a lot of harm,

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Speaker 4: also can do a lot of good for people because

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Speaker 4: they can realize they're not alone. And that's what our

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Speaker 4: programs do. Like that is one of our primary goals.

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Speaker 4: So when people see it, they jump really quickly to

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Speaker 4: want to be a part of it, because a lot

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Speaker 4: of people in the real world aren't talking to them

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Speaker 4: about their grief, aren't asking them questions, are aren't you know,

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Speaker 4: thoughtful and intentional. So the second they see even if

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Speaker 4: it's a dark humor video, which is my favorite kind

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Speaker 4: of video to make, or these dark humor grief videos,

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Speaker 4: because that's just who I am but you know, a

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Speaker 4: lot of people want to be a part of it,

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Speaker 4: and I don't blame them, and we want to bring

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Speaker 4: in as many people as we can, but we do

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Speaker 4: have a wait list and we do have a limit

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Speaker 4: just because of sizing. We aim to grow every year.

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Speaker 4: But luckily we have a lot of digital programs that

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Speaker 4: we started sort of a silver lining during COVID. So

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Speaker 4: we have like a grief camp in Minecraft for kids.

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Speaker 4: So for all the kids that didn't get to go

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Speaker 4: to physical camp, we you know, showed them what camp

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Speaker 4: and Minecraft could look like. We have a program on

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Speaker 4: roadblocks and really just the stat is and it's it's horrible,

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Speaker 4: but the status six million kids will experience the death

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Speaker 4: of a parent or sibling by the time they turn eighteen,

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Speaker 4: and we served twelve hundred, which we're really excited about.

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Speaker 3: But how do we.

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Speaker 4: Reach those six million? And that's really the work we're

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Speaker 4: trying to do well.

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Speaker 2: And the way you just said it's an isolating experience,

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Speaker 2: I think that's where I love it being called Experience Camp,

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Speaker 2: because to me, it is the grief experience, and it's complicated,

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Speaker 2: it's layered, it's different and yet similar for everybody. And

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Speaker 2: that was a beautiful thing about camp is that you

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Speaker 2: connected with people who understand this experience and also realize

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Speaker 2: that everybody's experiences are different too. I wanted to ask

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Speaker 2: you about where to donate because you just said, you

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Speaker 2: know six million kids. Where can people donate so that

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Speaker 2: we can help because they know experience. Camps is also

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Speaker 2: looking to the future and potentially opening more locations if possible.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because eight months ago Lauren and I didn't know

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Speaker 1: this thing existed, and so now we are involved, but

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Speaker 1: would love to get everybody else involved.

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Speaker 3: Yes, please, that would be great.

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Speaker 4: So we every child that comes through our doors pays

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Speaker 4: zero dollars to attend our programs, every single program, and

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Speaker 4: we will forever keep it that way. It is so

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Speaker 4: important to us because kids are already dealing with so

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Speaker 4: much after the death of someone in their life. We

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Speaker 4: never ever ever want money to be the reason someone

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Speaker 4: does not have access to our resources. But because it

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Speaker 4: is free, we do a lot of fundraising. So it

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Speaker 4: actually cost us around twenty five hundred dollars per kid

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Speaker 4: to send them to camp and then to have the

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Speaker 4: programs that we offer throughout the year, which are like

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Speaker 4: Camper reunions. We send them like a birthday postcard, we

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Speaker 4: send them a holiday postcard, and we do like game

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Speaker 4: show nights and things like that. You could donate on

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Speaker 4: our website. It's Experience Caamps dot org slash donate. All

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Speaker 4: the money goes, you know, to serving our kids and

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Speaker 4: making sure our programs are running and we're growing. Like

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Speaker 4: I said, we started with you know, twenty something kids

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Speaker 4: in Maine in two thousand and nine, twelve hundred kids

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Speaker 4: this year, and we have no plans to stop growing.

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Speaker 4: We're hoping to open more camps in the future and

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Speaker 4: do more digital programs to reach those six million kids.

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Speaker 2: So, Jesse, we brought you on as an expert on

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Speaker 2: many things from TikTok to grief. At this point, can

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Speaker 2: you talk a little bit about your story how you

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Speaker 2: got involved in Experienced Camps, because actually Jesse has an

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Speaker 2: entertainment media like us. You even worked at EVE for

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Speaker 2: a little while.

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Speaker 3: I did.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I've been all over the place in my career.

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Speaker 4: I always say I've lived like nine lives. But I

433
00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:11,480
Speaker 4: came to Experience Camps after the death of my brother.

434
00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:14,040
Speaker 4: His name was Jordan, and he died in twenty twelve

435
00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:17,520
Speaker 4: by suicide and for so long, I didn't do anything.

436
00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:19,560
Speaker 3: I didn't talk to anyone. No one talked to me.

437
00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:22,080
Speaker 4: I didn't even really have a therapist, Like I just

438
00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:23,760
Speaker 4: didn't know what to do, and the world told me

439
00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:26,359
Speaker 4: I should be moving on, so I did. And it

440
00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:29,040
Speaker 4: wasn't until twenty eighteen when someone told me about Experience

441
00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:31,480
Speaker 4: Camps and I came as a volunteer that like my

442
00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:33,760
Speaker 4: world was turned upside down. It was like some of

443
00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:36,880
Speaker 4: the first moments where I said, you know, my brother died,

444
00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:38,639
Speaker 4: this is how he died, this is who he was.

445
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:40,000
Speaker 3: And people didn't give me that.

446
00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:43,159
Speaker 4: Like ooh, look that you usually get when somebody you

447
00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:46,280
Speaker 4: know offers up information like that, and I just I

448
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:49,320
Speaker 4: sat there thinking like I need to live here forever,

449
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:54,399
Speaker 4: like I'm not leaving so hard to leave, and it's

450
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:57,560
Speaker 4: such a beautiful space and all of the people are amazing,

451
00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:00,000
Speaker 4: and so I ended up applying for a full time job.

452
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:02,960
Speaker 4: This was in twenty eighteen, got hired as our national

453
00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:06,800
Speaker 4: program manager, and it was it was incredible to sort

454
00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:08,880
Speaker 4: of like flip the script on my life, not only

455
00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:11,600
Speaker 4: like in my career, but with my grief too. I

456
00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:15,040
Speaker 4: went from being surrounded by nobody who had experienced grief

457
00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:18,400
Speaker 4: to being around everybody who had experience grief, and that

458
00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:22,840
Speaker 4: is like earth shattering an amazing way. It's hard and

459
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:26,160
Speaker 4: it's sad, and there's so much grief, but like there's

460
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:28,720
Speaker 4: so much beauty in it too. And then in twenty

461
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:31,960
Speaker 4: twenty one, my mom died from a seizure, and having

462
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:35,960
Speaker 4: that experience was there are no words to explain the

463
00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:38,440
Speaker 4: pain that came with that, but I will say being

464
00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:42,080
Speaker 4: in this community, having experience camps, people around me like

465
00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:46,920
Speaker 4: it was just different. It was just different. I felt seen,

466
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:50,240
Speaker 4: I felt supportive. People asked me questions. You know, there's

467
00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:53,040
Speaker 4: no like right thing to say or right thing to do,

468
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:55,240
Speaker 4: but it felt like people were doing the right things

469
00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:56,520
Speaker 4: and that was huge for me.

470
00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:01,680
Speaker 1: It definitely seem like the counselors got as much, if

471
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:03,479
Speaker 1: not more, out of these camps than the kids dead.

472
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:06,399
Speaker 1: I know Lauren came back a changed woman, which almost

473
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:07,000
Speaker 1: so wonderful.

474
00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:12,000
Speaker 2: You almost feel selfish saying it, but I mean, yeah,

475
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,000
Speaker 2: it is a two way street because you go there

476
00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:18,399
Speaker 2: as a counselor and many not all, but I would

477
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:21,560
Speaker 2: say do you know this to SUGGESSI I percent of

478
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:24,240
Speaker 2: counselors had experienced a loss as well. So see she's

479
00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:26,720
Speaker 2: on it, she knows. This is why we needed an expert.

480
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 2: But you go there and people had different amounts of

481
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:34,520
Speaker 2: time that had been since their loss. Maybe they had

482
00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:39,160
Speaker 2: different levels of therapy or help. But you, I think,

483
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:43,640
Speaker 2: just the the simple thing of being surrounded by other

484
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:47,680
Speaker 2: people who had experienced loss too. Like you said, I mean,

485
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:50,880
Speaker 2: I was in college when my dad died, so none

486
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 2: of my but just none of my friends had had

487
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:55,359
Speaker 2: a loss at that point, and it was the first time. Still,

488
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:57,240
Speaker 2: at this point in my thirties, most people I know

489
00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:00,320
Speaker 2: still have both their parents. So to be around other

490
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:04,040
Speaker 2: people who'd experienced significant loss for the first time is

491
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:07,640
Speaker 2: going to make you feel seen for the first time.

492
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:10,960
Speaker 2: And I yeah, I almost felt selfish in that way.

493
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:14,040
Speaker 2: So I just kept trying to give as much as

494
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:16,240
Speaker 2: I could and left camp exhausted because I thought, I

495
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:18,040
Speaker 2: have to give more than I'm taking from this.

496
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:20,520
Speaker 3: You're not selfish at all.

497
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:24,040
Speaker 4: It's so common to hear people say that, Like I

498
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:26,440
Speaker 4: used to part of my job, you know, a few

499
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 4: years ago at experience camps, was interviewing all the volunteers,

500
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:30,399
Speaker 4: and I'd be like, why do you want.

501
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:31,880
Speaker 3: To do this time?

502
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:34,000
Speaker 4: After time after time. I want to transform the lives

503
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:35,879
Speaker 4: of kids. I want to transform the lives of kids,

504
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:38,000
Speaker 4: and I would I would just sort of laugh to

505
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 4: myself and like, they don't know, they don't know that

506
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:42,399
Speaker 4: they're going to leave and they're going to be the

507
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:44,879
Speaker 4: ones that are transformed. And then you know exactly what

508
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:47,520
Speaker 4: you're saying. People come home and they're like, I'm different,

509
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:50,840
Speaker 4: and I feel seen, I feel hurt. You're just on

510
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:53,200
Speaker 4: a different wavelength when you've experienced the death of someone

511
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 4: in your life, when you can be around people who

512
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:59,399
Speaker 4: are on that wavelength, it's just I got the chills

513
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,440
Speaker 4: thinking about it. It's just really incredible. So first pain

514
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:03,600
Speaker 4: and to purpose.

515
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 1: So many people are hearing about this for the first time,

516
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:11,199
Speaker 1: and if they have suffered through this loss themselves and

517
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,440
Speaker 1: they're listening to this, or they have a child, talk

518
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:17,120
Speaker 1: about the age group, how they can get involved when

519
00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 1: these camps start. Are they throughout the year? As you said,

520
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 1: they're in six different states now, so kind of give

521
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:25,920
Speaker 1: folks hearing about this for the first time details.

522
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely so.

523
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:32,199
Speaker 4: Our application process for twenty twenty four will open on

524
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:36,120
Speaker 4: November first on our website Experience Camps dot Org. So

525
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 4: the kids that we take are going into fourth grade

526
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 4: in the summer through going into twelfth grade in the summer,

527
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:45,520
Speaker 4: So that comes out to like nine to seventeen ish.

528
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:49,240
Speaker 4: For volunteers, you just have to be nineteen. You don't

529
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:51,399
Speaker 4: have to have experienced the depth of anyone in your

530
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:52,879
Speaker 4: life like you can come and just be a good

531
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:56,800
Speaker 4: person who wants to help. Those also open on November first,

532
00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:59,360
Speaker 4: and then all of our camps are basically in August

533
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:03,360
Speaker 4: because we're using other camp facilities. We basically when their

534
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:05,720
Speaker 4: kids leave, we come in, so they all happen to

535
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:07,720
Speaker 4: be in August. So if you've got you know, a

536
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 4: free week in August or this speaks to you definitely,

537
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:13,640
Speaker 4: you know, sign up for our newsletter, get your name

538
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:16,680
Speaker 4: in there on November first, because we fill it fast.

539
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:19,639
Speaker 2: Now, Jesse, I'm gonna throw a big question at you.

540
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:23,000
Speaker 2: But having gone through loss yourself and also working at

541
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:26,439
Speaker 2: experienced camps and around loss for years now, today is

542
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 2: National Grief Awareness Day, what do you wish people were

543
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:34,879
Speaker 2: more aware of about grief? How long do you have

544
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:39,119
Speaker 2: that turns out, it turns out our entire lives because

545
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:40,480
Speaker 2: the grief process is never over.

546
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 4: So but I'm ching that was gonna be one of

547
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:46,280
Speaker 4: my answers actually is you know a lot of people say,

548
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 4: you know, a year later, like shouldn't you be moved

549
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 4: on by now, like.

550
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:54,120
Speaker 3: That was a year ago, or even like.

551
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:57,159
Speaker 4: My brother died eleven years ago, and people are like,

552
00:27:57,320 --> 00:27:59,959
Speaker 4: that's still effects you. That's something that like you deal with,

553
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:02,840
Speaker 4: that's a long time. A lot can happen in eleven years.

554
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,160
Speaker 4: But you're absolutely right, the grief process never ends. It's

555
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:11,000
Speaker 4: with us for life. And sometimes I've heard people say,

556
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:13,680
Speaker 4: like it gets worse as time goes on because you're

557
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 4: missing them more or things are happening in your life

558
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:20,440
Speaker 4: where they're not present for And I think another thing

559
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:23,359
Speaker 4: that I would love to share with with your audiences

560
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 4: is like, while there's no right way to show up

561
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:29,400
Speaker 4: for someone after someone dies in their life, and there's

562
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,400
Speaker 4: no perfect thing to say, there are things better than

563
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:35,439
Speaker 4: what you're probably currently going with. Like many of our

564
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 4: kids say I'm sorry for your loss just doesn't work

565
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 4: for them, you know, the classic like oh, I'm sorry

566
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 4: for your loss, and then the kid has to be

567
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:45,960
Speaker 4: like it's okay or thanks, and they don't. They don't

568
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 4: feel comfortable with that and even if you genuinely mean it,

569
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 4: there's just some there are better things to say. You know,

570
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:53,720
Speaker 4: a lot of people will say something like let me

571
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 4: know if there's anything I could do for you. But

572
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:57,960
Speaker 4: after my mom died, I got that like ten times

573
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 4: and I'm like, okay, Paul from high school. Oh, I'll

574
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 4: be sure to call you if.

575
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:01,720
Speaker 2: I need eggs.

576
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 3: There's no you know, like what am I going to

577
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 3: do with that?

578
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 4: So I always tell people like, concrete things that you

579
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 4: can do for someone are so important, Like you know

580
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 4: you can ask them when you're ready. I would love

581
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 4: to hear a story about your mom or I remember

582
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 4: when you know we were kids, your mom did this,

583
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:20,239
Speaker 4: or as simple as hey, I'm going to go to

584
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:22,960
Speaker 4: the grocery store today. I'm going to get you eggs, milk,

585
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 4: and butter, and if I don't care from you by

586
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 4: three o'clock, I'll be at your house at three thirty.

587
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 4: Just really concrete things that you can do for people

588
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 4: really go a long way and make the person who's

589
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:35,959
Speaker 4: grieving feel seen and understood rather than sort of isolated

590
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 4: and confused.

591
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 1: Be proactive.

592
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:39,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think a lot of what you're saying is

593
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 2: a lot of response that people automatically go with like

594
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 2: I'm sorry for your loss or what can I do

595
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:48,240
Speaker 2: to help? Puts the onus back on the grieving person.

596
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 2: Like you said, then they have to comfort them and

597
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:53,440
Speaker 2: say oh, it's okay when it's not, or try it.

598
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 2: They have to try to think of something or just

599
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 2: say no, I don't need anything, when really they do.

600
00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:57,640
Speaker 3: Totally.

601
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 1: What about the timing of it, because Lorna and I

602
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:12,040
Speaker 1: were laughing, and I know some of the kids talked

603
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 1: about this at camp. Look, locks and bagels are great

604
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 1: that first week, the castle roles are wonderful.

605
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 2: But this I had one camper say, gosh, that first

606
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:26,400
Speaker 2: week we ate like kings because and then another iconic

607
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 2: quote from our bunk, a camper goes man, people really

608
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 2: thought edible arrangements were going to cure my grief, but

609
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 2: to dark humor, Jesse, dark humor.

610
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:38,280
Speaker 1: But to that joke, to that joke, is there something

611
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 1: that we and I say we people that haven't experienced

612
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 1: this and working with people who just lost somebody, is

613
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:47,960
Speaker 1: there a timing thing of week two, week three, week four,

614
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:50,800
Speaker 1: when the circus moves out of town and you are

615
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 1: still sitting there with your grief.

616
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, It's an amazing question. And I actually saw stat

617
00:30:56,160 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 4: recently that four kids specifically who are grieving, after three months,

618
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:05,320
Speaker 4: pretty much everyone disappears from their life. And there's a

619
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 4: couple of things you can do. I think we go

620
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:09,800
Speaker 4: back to what we had just been talking about. Grief

621
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 4: never ends, and so what can you do knowing grief

622
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 4: never ends? So here are some things that I'll tell people.

623
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 4: Is one, put that person's birthday and the day that

624
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 4: they died in your calendar. Put it in your calendar

625
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 4: and set it as a reoccurring calendar invite. So every

626
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 4: year when that comes up, you know, I'm going to

627
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 4: this person. Our lives get so busy, we're going to

628
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 4: forget those days. Put it in your calendar, super important.

629
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:37,040
Speaker 4: And then the other thing is like a random Tuesday

630
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 4: or a Sunday night, when like nothing is going on,

631
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:44,240
Speaker 4: reach out to that person, say something, ask for a story,

632
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:47,960
Speaker 4: tell them a story, interact with them, because those days,

633
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 4: while the birthdays and the death ofversaries and three months

634
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:53,239
Speaker 4: in and one month in, those are excruciating. So it

635
00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 4: was like a Sunday three years in, Like I have

636
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 4: a friend who still texts me asking me for stories

637
00:31:58,040 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 4: about my mom my mom died over two years ago.

638
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 3: So I think it's those.

639
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:06,840
Speaker 4: Random days check in consistently, the birthday, the death of versary.

640
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 4: And then we've heard that holidays are really hard for people,

641
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 4: you know, especially if someone's missing at the table or

642
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 4: they used to go to this person's house that died.

643
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:17,360
Speaker 4: Those days can be really hard. And then of course

644
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 4: Mother's Day, Father's Day. I always used to joke like

645
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 4: National Siblings Day seems to be every month or is

646
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:26,440
Speaker 4: it just me watching all these people post pictures of

647
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:29,240
Speaker 4: their siblings, And I'm like, well, I know that, so

648
00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 4: there's days, but also it's like all the time.

649
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:35,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's the griefs. Yeah, that's probably one

650
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 2: of the biggest things for me. Is and I actually

651
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 2: remember telling you this, babe in our relationship is I

652
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:43,400
Speaker 2: like actively told you I want to talk about my

653
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:48,680
Speaker 2: dad because I think people assume, you know, even if

654
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:50,320
Speaker 2: even if they know you've had a loss, and I

655
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 2: know they're coming from a place of trying to be sensitive,

656
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 2: but if I bring up my dad, I've noticed friends

657
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 2: will sort of you can physically see them tends up

658
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 2: a little bit, get on edge, and then they don't

659
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:03,480
Speaker 2: know what to say, and and then you almost have

660
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:05,240
Speaker 2: to say, look, I'm not trying to bring the mood down,

661
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:07,240
Speaker 2: like I want to talk about my dad. I want

662
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 2: to still tell stories about him. If he was here,

663
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:12,080
Speaker 2: I would still be, you know, saying, oh, Dad, remember

664
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 2: when you did this, So you don't want to lose

665
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 2: those memories. I love that people still text you asking

666
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:19,040
Speaker 2: for stories about your mom. I would love it if

667
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 2: somebody thought about my dad and my family, like send

668
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:23,720
Speaker 2: that textile, let's keep his memory alive.

669
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 1: And people are worried you're going to kind of, you know,

670
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 1: rip that scabble.

671
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:31,320
Speaker 2: They're worried they're going to upset you. Yeah, I think, Yeah.

672
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 4: It's interesting that you say that, and I've gotten that

673
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 4: a lot, Like I don't want to make you sad.

674
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:38,120
Speaker 4: And my reaction is like I'm already yeah, you.

675
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 1: Know, my mom died.

676
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:43,920
Speaker 4: I'm ready said, my mom literally died. I'm sorry, random friend, Like,

677
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:46,440
Speaker 4: you're not going to be more sad, and it exists

678
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:48,840
Speaker 4: in me. My grief is me. I am my grief,

679
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 4: so like if that is a part of me, Like

680
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:53,960
Speaker 4: I can't get more sad than I already am. Like sure,

681
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 4: maybe I'm having the best day ever. But if you

682
00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:59,360
Speaker 4: text me asking me about my mom, it actually makes

683
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,480
Speaker 4: me happy because it feels like her memory is living

684
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:04,760
Speaker 4: on rather than people just ignoring it. So I think

685
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:08,959
Speaker 4: that's really important. It's like we're already sad, don't worry

686
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:10,320
Speaker 4: about it.

687
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 2: It was interesting to hear some of the kids talk

688
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:15,719
Speaker 2: about the way that they talk about their parents. Some

689
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:17,719
Speaker 2: of them said that when they meet people, and I

690
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 2: used to do this too, when they meet people for

691
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:22,800
Speaker 2: the first time, they actually pretend their parents is alive

692
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:25,480
Speaker 2: because they don't want to get into the complexity of

693
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:27,719
Speaker 2: explaining it to a new person, and then they'll just

694
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:31,200
Speaker 2: end up comforting that new person. So yeah, I think

695
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:33,720
Speaker 2: one of the biggest takeaways too, is just that initial reaction,

696
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:36,239
Speaker 2: like you said, maybe instead of tensing up and saying, oh,

697
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:38,040
Speaker 2: I'm sorry for your loss, if someone tells you that,

698
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:40,839
Speaker 2: say hey, thanks for sharing that. Gosh, you know what

699
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:43,920
Speaker 2: was your dad's name or you know what was he like,

700
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:48,360
Speaker 2: and it really can just totally change not just the conversation,

701
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 2: but a person's whole perception of you.

702
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:53,920
Speaker 1: So yeah, well, you too have given people a lot

703
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:57,359
Speaker 1: of tools. So it is National Grief Day. So if

704
00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:00,000
Speaker 1: you are listening to this podcast, and you know somebody

705
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:03,360
Speaker 1: who has lost somebody, reach out today, ask them for

706
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:05,360
Speaker 1: a story, ask them to tell you something about the

707
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:07,279
Speaker 1: person they lost, or you tell a story like we

708
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:10,279
Speaker 1: have given you the tools, do something today, make that

709
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:13,400
Speaker 1: a point and being National Grief Day before we let

710
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:15,960
Speaker 1: you go. Is there something you want to say to

711
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 1: the masses and everybody listening today?

712
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 3: So much, Chris, so much.

713
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:26,840
Speaker 4: But you know, I think grief is I know, grief

714
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 4: is something that is going to happen to one hundred

715
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 4: percent of us, one hundred percent. Not one person on

716
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 4: this earth will be spared. So the sooner we start

717
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 4: talking about it and making it less taboo and showing

718
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:41,400
Speaker 4: up for the people in our lives, the more comfortable

719
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:44,200
Speaker 4: will feel. It'll still be excruciating when it happens. It

720
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:46,719
Speaker 4: will still be the worst experience like you may ever

721
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 4: have in your life. But if we stop making grief

722
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:52,200
Speaker 4: so taboo and we can have those conversations and we

723
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:55,319
Speaker 4: can stop making those like ooh faces when someone tells

724
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:57,799
Speaker 4: us that, the better prepared we are for when it

725
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:00,200
Speaker 4: happens to us. So I think, like Chris said, like

726
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:03,960
Speaker 4: it's simple, It's really really simple. Like one step today

727
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:06,640
Speaker 4: take one step today. Send out a text, even if

728
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:09,319
Speaker 4: it's just a heart I'm thinking of you. Send send

729
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:12,439
Speaker 4: that one tiny, tiny moment, and the sooner we're able

730
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:14,400
Speaker 4: to talk about it and make it less taboo, the

731
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:16,200
Speaker 4: better our world will really be.

732
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:19,279
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Jesse, thanks for your time. Again.

733
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:21,959
Speaker 2: It's experience camps dot org. You can learn more about

734
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 2: the camps there. You can donate their follow Experience Camps

735
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:28,640
Speaker 2: on Instagram and TikTok and Jesse, in honor of you,

736
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 2: I think we're just going to end this interview with

737
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:33,920
Speaker 2: one of your wonderfully dark humored tiktoks. We're going to

738
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:38,880
Speaker 2: play out you with the slogans that this summer you

739
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:41,960
Speaker 2: had kids come up with new slogans for grief camp.

740
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:44,279
Speaker 2: Thank you, Jesse, You're so welcome here.

741
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:48,880
Speaker 4: They are asking kids new grief camp slogans Peep dying,

742
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:50,400
Speaker 4: wee vibe in.

743
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:56,400
Speaker 1: Let's family, more friends die, laugh and love be all

744
00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:58,440
Speaker 1: smiles for grieving child.

745
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:03,840
Speaker 2: Damn it, years and overcoming fears came to grief, didn't

746
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:08,400
Speaker 2: want to leave, weeping sorrows, happy tomorrows obsessed. I think

747
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:17,680
Speaker 2: my favorite one was less family, more friends, looks.

748
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:19,200
Speaker 1: That surprised me as someone who has not dealt with

749
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:23,120
Speaker 1: this like you have the laughter and the jokes and

750
00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:25,319
Speaker 1: all that, because it's for for us, it's something that's

751
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 1: so taboo we would not want to, you know, it'd

752
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 1: be like tiptoeing on glass.

753
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 2: Well, one thing we all talked about at camp is

754
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:35,640
Speaker 2: how wild is it that grief is a guaranteed experience

755
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:39,560
Speaker 2: in every human being on this planet's life, and yet

756
00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:42,960
Speaker 2: we are not educated about it in school. We are

757
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:47,400
Speaker 2: not not only not educated about how to experience grief ourselves,

758
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:50,759
Speaker 2: but how to talk to someone who's experienced grief. There

759
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 2: is no real discussion of grief in school, like you

760
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:56,960
Speaker 2: learn sex said, but you don't learn death ed and

761
00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:02,920
Speaker 2: so experience CAM just bringing that awareness through their social

762
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:05,920
Speaker 2: through the camps itself, is really doing work that we

763
00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:11,239
Speaker 2: should all be getting. And it was interesting for me

764
00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:16,840
Speaker 2: because grief is again, it's always with us, and that's okay.

765
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 2: Like I want to remember my dad, and I think

766
00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:24,640
Speaker 2: a takeaway I had from camp this week was I

767
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 2: was surprised by how much I cried it in my mind.

768
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:32,760
Speaker 2: You know, it had been thirteen years since I lost

769
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:35,760
Speaker 2: my dad, and I have done a lot of healing

770
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:37,480
Speaker 2: I feel confident in saying that I'm not in the

771
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:39,880
Speaker 2: same place that I was when he first died, and

772
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:44,240
Speaker 2: I want to tell people that the phrase time heals

773
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:47,560
Speaker 2: and this too shall pass, like grief does get better,

774
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:50,760
Speaker 2: it does get easier. It is not this hopeless, endless

775
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:55,239
Speaker 2: road of sadness. But I was reminded this week that

776
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:58,479
Speaker 2: it's important to still kind of think about that pain.

777
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:03,719
Speaker 2: I thought, I'm very healed and and I don't really

778
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 2: have those big, deep cries that I used to have.

779
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:09,640
Speaker 2: But I was shocked in our sharing circles that we

780
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:12,680
Speaker 2: did every day this week, and in our campfires. We

781
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:16,480
Speaker 2: had three campfires during the week. We're at campfire, you

782
00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:19,480
Speaker 2: hear letters from some campers that they've written to their

783
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:22,839
Speaker 2: lost person, or even at the very last campfire, every

784
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:25,960
Speaker 2: single camper gets up and says who their person was

785
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:29,880
Speaker 2: that they lost and maybe says something about them. I

786
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:32,920
Speaker 2: was surprised that I cried every single time when I

787
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:40,880
Speaker 2: started talking about my dad, and I won't, and it

788
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:43,880
Speaker 2: really made me realize that I need to make a

789
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 2: little space to cry about him sometimes, like that's okay

790
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:54,279
Speaker 2: when someone is that that powerful of a force in

791
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:58,399
Speaker 2: your life, your parent, like You're still going to feel

792
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:01,360
Speaker 2: that sadness, and it's important and to feel that sadness.

793
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:04,239
Speaker 2: And I'm really grateful that Camp reminded me of that

794
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:07,440
Speaker 2: this week. And loss is complicated.

795
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:07,680
Speaker 3: You know.

796
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:12,520
Speaker 2: We had people who had lost parents who were abusive,

797
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 2: so maybe they aren't missing that person. Maybe that loss

798
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:19,400
Speaker 2: was in some ways a relief, but it's still painful.

799
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:22,399
Speaker 2: We had people who lost parents they'd never known, maybe

800
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:24,880
Speaker 2: their parents died before they were ever born. But a

801
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 2: beautiful thing about Camp was, no matter what your loss is,

802
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:33,360
Speaker 2: we respect the differences in grief, and we celebrate that

803
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:37,279
Speaker 2: some of those experiences that think qualities about those experiences

804
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:40,400
Speaker 2: are similar and bind us all and unite us all

805
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:41,520
Speaker 2: before we go.

806
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:46,560
Speaker 1: I think we'd be remiss if you didn't tell us

807
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:47,680
Speaker 1: a quick story about your dad.

808
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:50,960
Speaker 2: One story that I shared this week. We had a

809
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:53,960
Speaker 2: great activity in our sharing circles where the kids got

810
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 2: given a blank puzzle and they could draw on the puzzle,

811
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:02,320
Speaker 2: and the idea was, what are the pieces of that

812
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:04,960
Speaker 2: person that you remember or that matter to you? What

813
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:08,160
Speaker 2: are pieces of the puzzle of grief interpreted how you want.

814
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:13,760
Speaker 2: I'm really bad at drawing, but I just drew music

815
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:18,880
Speaker 2: notes and I tried to draw stage, which was just

816
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:23,840
Speaker 2: a hater walk. My dad and I, like probably a

817
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:26,279
Speaker 2: lot of people relate to driving their kids around. I

818
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:28,640
Speaker 2: know you've talked about how driving the kids, being their

819
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:31,280
Speaker 2: uber driver before they get their license, is such quality

820
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:33,440
Speaker 2: important time in the car where you kind of get

821
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:35,799
Speaker 2: them to yourself and you get to hear about their

822
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:38,120
Speaker 2: day and they're they're actually listening to you and a

823
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:41,759
Speaker 2: captive audience. My dad and I used to He would

824
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:44,160
Speaker 2: pick me up. He was always the picker up er

825
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 2: after you know, me being at a friend's house and

826
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:51,919
Speaker 2: we would listen to Frank Sinatra and we would talk,

827
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:54,239
Speaker 2: and Frank Sinatra was our thing and one of my

828
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:57,239
Speaker 2: favorite memories. I can't believe I have this memory, but

829
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:00,759
Speaker 2: when I was four, my dad took me to see

830
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:04,320
Speaker 2: Frank Sinatra. My first concert was Frank Sinatra, and I

831
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:06,520
Speaker 2: remember he picked me up and sat me on his

832
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:09,400
Speaker 2: lap so I could see. And the fact that like

833
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:12,759
Speaker 2: even that I was four years old and he was

834
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 2: taking the time to have that experience with me. I'm

835
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:19,440
Speaker 2: so grateful for it that I had a dad like that.

836
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:22,200
Speaker 2: I'm so grateful that even for the short amount of

837
00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:24,440
Speaker 2: time I had him that I had a dad who

838
00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:29,560
Speaker 2: showed me love and who taught me love, and you know,

839
00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:31,399
Speaker 2: not everybody has that, and I saw that this week,

840
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:32,960
Speaker 2: So I'm very grateful.

841
00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:38,000
Speaker 1: A contest that Lauren will never lose to anyone I know.

842
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:40,600
Speaker 1: And that is when you asked the question what was

843
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:43,960
Speaker 1: your first concert? And she says, Frank Sinatra, it's pretty dope,

844
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:46,520
Speaker 1: walk away, you're dode.

845
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:49,640
Speaker 2: Actually, if I may quote one of our campers to

846
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:53,320
Speaker 2: end this podcast, because it's relevant to that puzzle, that

847
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:57,280
Speaker 2: was the activity we made. Again, please donate to Experience

848
00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:00,319
Speaker 2: Camps if you're able, reach out to me if you'd

849
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:03,200
Speaker 2: like more information about the camp, or to the camp themselves,

850
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:05,000
Speaker 2: or if you just want to talk about grief. I'd

851
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:09,760
Speaker 2: love to hear everybody's stories. But we had a camper

852
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:15,160
Speaker 2: who said, everybody in our bunk is important. You know,

853
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:17,120
Speaker 2: some of us are more quiet, some of us are louder.

854
00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:19,520
Speaker 2: She said, I'm not calling anybody out. We're different, but

855
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:23,880
Speaker 2: we are all an important piece of this puzzle, and

856
00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:27,719
Speaker 2: we're perfect as we are, and our counselors are the

857
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:32,560
Speaker 2: glue that's holding this puzzle together. And she really sent

858
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:35,640
Speaker 2: me with that one saying that they were all perfect

859
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:37,799
Speaker 2: as they are. It was so beautiful because I thought

860
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:40,560
Speaker 2: these kids are learning more about more about grief. They're

861
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:45,080
Speaker 2: learning to love each other as flawed and as wonderful,

862
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:47,360
Speaker 2: and to celebrate each other. It was amazing.

863
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:51,440
Speaker 1: Well, I love you, I'm proud of you. What an

864
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:54,839
Speaker 1: incredible week and you can go to experience camps dot

865
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:58,520
Speaker 1: org learn more about it. This is National Grief Awareness Day,

866
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:01,000
Speaker 1: So as we said while we were talking to Jesse,

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Speaker 1: take a moment, reach out to those people today who

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Speaker 1: have lost somebody and be proactive and just know that

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00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:11,719
Speaker 1: we're thinking about you as well. We love you, you

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00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:15,399
Speaker 1: are loved, and we will talk to you again very

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00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:18,000
Speaker 1: soon because we have a lot more to talk about.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. Follow us on Instagram at the most

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00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:23,480
Speaker 1: Dramatic pod ever and make sure to write us a

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00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:26,120
Speaker 1: review and leave us five stars. I'll talk to you

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00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:26,640
Speaker 1: next time.