1 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:18,120 Speaker 1: You're listening to Part Time Genius, the production of Kaleidoscope 2 00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:19,240 Speaker 1: and iHeartRadio. 3 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 2: Guess what Will? What's that? 4 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 3: Mango? 5 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:27,720 Speaker 1: If you've ever made a decision then wondered what might 6 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 1: have happened if you'd made a different decision, you've experienced 7 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 1: something called counterfactual curiosity. Is that something that's familiar to you? 8 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:37,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, that means nothing for me. I mean when I 9 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 3: make up my mind, that is it. There is no 10 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 3: second guessing, Mango. Yeah, Well, you are very unusual, and 11 00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:49,479 Speaker 3: counterfactual curiosity is also unusual because, unlike other types of curiosity, 12 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 3: pursuing that line of thinking never leads to a reward. 13 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:56,560 Speaker 3: Knowing what could have happened has zero real world benefit 14 00:00:57,040 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 3: unless you own a time machine, and often it has 15 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:04,120 Speaker 3: negative impact because it makes you feel regret. So you 16 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:06,400 Speaker 3: think that if there's something with no reward and a 17 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 3: high risk of negativity, you'd want to avoid it. But 18 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:10,959 Speaker 3: studies have shown that just isn't true. 19 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:13,080 Speaker 1: In one test, people were shown in an animation of 20 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 1: a balloon and they had to choose a number of 21 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 1: times to pump the balloon, and if it burst, they lost, 22 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:22,039 Speaker 1: if it stayed intact, they won. So Afterwards, participants were 23 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 1: given the option of seeing the correct number of pumps 24 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 1: that would have inflated the balloon without bursting it, and 25 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:31,880 Speaker 1: over and over and over they requested that information, even 26 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:35,800 Speaker 1: though they also reported that knowing the answer made them 27 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:38,679 Speaker 1: feel worse if their guests had popped the balloon. 28 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:42,680 Speaker 3: Wow, so that counterfactual curiosity was just too strong, unlike 29 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:44,479 Speaker 3: the blown I suppose exactly. 30 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:47,080 Speaker 1: And today we are kicking off a week long series 31 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:50,520 Speaker 1: all about curiosity, why we have it, how it changes 32 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:53,160 Speaker 1: over the course of our lives, whether animals experience it, 33 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:57,440 Speaker 1: and where that saying curiosity killed the cat really came from. 34 00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 1: We've got lots of questions and all most as many answers, 35 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 1: So let's step in. 36 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:25,639 Speaker 3: Hey, their podcast listeners, welcome to Part Time Genius. I'm 37 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:27,960 Speaker 3: Will Pearson and as always I'm here with my good 38 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:30,960 Speaker 3: friend Mangesh hot Ticket and Mango. You won't believe this 39 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:33,959 Speaker 3: one thing our Palin producer, Dylan Fagan is doing over 40 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:34,919 Speaker 3: there in the booth today. 41 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:36,639 Speaker 1: What's he doing? 42 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 2: He's doing one thing that'll blow your mind. 43 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 1: Mango, I cannot see from where I'm saying. Will you 44 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 1: just tell me? 45 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:44,399 Speaker 3: Well, do you really want to know, yes, of course, 46 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 3: I want to know you sound that you actually sound 47 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:48,120 Speaker 3: maybe a little bit annoyed. 48 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 1: I have annoyed. 49 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:54,240 Speaker 3: Well, then my experiment is a success, Mango, I've successfully trapped. 50 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 2: You in an information gap. 51 00:02:55,520 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 3: That's a concept of curiosity, developed by behavioral economist George Lowenstein, 52 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 3: who incidentally is the great grandson of Sigmund Freud. Now, 53 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:06,520 Speaker 3: according to him, curiosity is a form of cognitive deprivation 54 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 3: that occurs when you have some concrete information. 55 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 2: But you don't feel like you have enough. 56 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 3: So it's not a total absence of knowledge, but it 57 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:17,520 Speaker 3: is an absence of satisfaction because the other key thing 58 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:20,760 Speaker 3: is you're aware that this gap could potentially be filled. 59 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 3: So in your case, just now, I gave you a small, 60 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:27,680 Speaker 3: but you know, super tantalizing piece of information, and I 61 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 3: told you that Dylan was doing a specific activity in 62 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:32,120 Speaker 3: the booth. I made it clear that I knew what 63 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 3: it was that primed you for a sudden rush of curiosity. Now, 64 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 3: if I just said Dylan isn't here today, I don't 65 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:40,119 Speaker 3: know where he is, you might still wonder what he's 66 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:43,120 Speaker 3: up to, but you probably wouldn't feel that strong urge 67 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 3: to find out even though in the end it's the 68 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 3: same basic scenario. Dylan's doing something and you have no 69 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 3: idea what it is. 70 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 4: Mango. 71 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 1: That is fascinating. But also I have this feeling that 72 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:55,960 Speaker 1: you're never going to tell me what he's doing. 73 00:03:56,840 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 3: I'll tell you what at the end of the episode. 74 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:01,200 Speaker 3: We'll have Dylan self fill you in. 75 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 1: That is an incredible treat. It's a deal. Okay. So, 76 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 1: as I mentioned earlier, this is the beginning of our 77 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 1: week long exploration of curiosity. And I'm really excited because 78 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 1: you know, I think we both are curious people. Our 79 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 1: lives are animated by curiosity, right, Like it's such a 80 00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:21,360 Speaker 1: big part of our friendship too. I mean I know that, 81 00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 1: like just hearing the topics you were fascinated by, like history, religion, 82 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:28,920 Speaker 1: et cetera, and the classes you were interested in made 83 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 1: me want to befriend you because like you picked out 84 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:35,360 Speaker 1: interesting things and you always had some like curious, fascinating 85 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:36,279 Speaker 1: thing to talk about. 86 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 3: It's kind of wild to think about We're going on 87 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 3: almost three decades of being curious about stuff together. 88 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:42,600 Speaker 2: When you think about that. 89 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:45,480 Speaker 3: First year dorm room in college and coming back from 90 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:49,320 Speaker 3: those classes, like you mentioned, having learned something interesting. Cramming 91 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:51,360 Speaker 3: into a dorm room with other friends and talking about 92 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 3: it almost makes me feel like we were a little 93 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 3: bit nerdy, But I can't decide. 94 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:56,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, not at all, just the time. 95 00:04:57,080 --> 00:04:59,279 Speaker 3: But you're right, it's the best feeling in the world 96 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 3: to learn something new, to have somebody share something that 97 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:04,840 Speaker 3: they've learned, and just to exercise that curiosity. 98 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 1: We were also curious about stupid things, right, like that 99 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 1: bouncy ball that came into our dorm room and our 100 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:13,360 Speaker 1: senior year, and we would just like all of us, 101 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:15,839 Speaker 1: wanted to see how many times you could bounce it 102 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:18,599 Speaker 1: from the ground to the ceiling and just keep it going. 103 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 1: And we wanted to know what the limits of this 104 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:22,279 Speaker 1: bouncy ball. 105 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, exactly, and we had the strong arms to 106 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 3: test it out. My favorite part about that whole story, though, was, 107 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 3: if you remember this, we lived upstairs from this certain 108 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 3: fraternity at Duke and they had come upstairs right at 109 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 3: the beginning of the school year and they were like, guys, 110 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 3: we just want to give you heads up. Sometimes we're 111 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:39,840 Speaker 3: really loud and I we like to party. I hope 112 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 3: that doesn't bother you too much. And we're like, it's 113 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 3: cool whatever, and then like night three of being there 114 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:47,360 Speaker 3: is when we did this bouncy ball thing and two 115 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 3: of the guys walked up from that frat and they 116 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 3: were like, guys, what is going on? And they walked 117 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 3: into a room and we were. 118 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 2: Like one, two, three, four or five except watching the 119 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:58,800 Speaker 2: ball bounce between the floor and the ceiling. Yeah, boo 120 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 2: boo boom boo boo boo boo boo. It was such 121 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 2: a thrill, But that's what we were up to. 122 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, you're right, that seems like worthwhile curiosity to me anyway. 123 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:10,240 Speaker 1: So each episode for the series is going to take 124 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:13,359 Speaker 1: a look at different aspects of curiosity, and we're kicking 125 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:17,240 Speaker 1: things off with neuroscience and psychology, like what really goes 126 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:20,040 Speaker 1: on in our brains when we experience curiosity, How does 127 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 1: that affect our minds and our behavior? And what does 128 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:25,520 Speaker 1: all of this have to do with impulse shopping. But 129 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:27,640 Speaker 1: before we get into the science, we asked our friend 130 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:30,480 Speaker 1: Mitra to take her microphone around the streets of Brooklyn 131 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 1: to find out how some everyday people define curiosity. 132 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 5: Curiosity to me means interest, whether it's being curious about 133 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 5: a person, about a subject, about an object, whatever it is. 134 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:51,919 Speaker 5: It means interest, I would say maybe excitement for the unknown. 135 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 6: I think it's a discipline because I think it needs 136 00:06:55,279 --> 00:07:00,120 Speaker 6: to be cultivated, but like a discipline that ensures that 137 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:04,159 Speaker 6: I am not doing the same thing over and over again, 138 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:07,719 Speaker 6: and I'm staying open to new ideas, new places, new 139 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:08,800 Speaker 6: thought processes. 140 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:14,160 Speaker 1: Curiosity is the desire to learn, to keep evolving, changing, 141 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 1: collecting knowledge and insights some sort give. 142 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:21,240 Speaker 5: In my head right now, curiosities associate with like growth, 143 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 5: you know, just trying to expand and learn more. 144 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:26,960 Speaker 2: For me, it's an actual need. 145 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 6: I don't think I can go a day without being 146 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 6: curious about almost everything. 147 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 5: I guess curiosity is just acknowledging all the things you 148 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:39,240 Speaker 5: don't know and letting yourself wonder about them instead of 149 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:41,280 Speaker 5: being bummed you don't know it. 150 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 2: I don't know. 151 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 1: So I really like that quote that curiosity is desire 152 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 1: to learn to keep evolving and changing, because I one 153 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:52,240 Speaker 1: thing I found with my grandparents and actually my great 154 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:56,679 Speaker 1: grandmother is that they were most alive when they were curious, 155 00:07:56,960 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 1: you know, like they were reading the paper till the end. 156 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 1: My grandfather was learning this language kinda just because he 157 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 1: had a story he wanted to write. And he thought 158 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 1: it would be best written in that language, you know, 159 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 1: And so like, I think there's something incredible about curiosity 160 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:14,680 Speaker 1: that is really life affirming. 161 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so too. 162 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:18,520 Speaker 3: It's also fun to watch people whose curiosity may be 163 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:21,560 Speaker 3: exercised in a slightly different way than ours, Like for us, 164 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:24,160 Speaker 3: I think most of the time it's just knowing information. 165 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:27,880 Speaker 3: But I also love watching people who are maybe fascinated 166 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:31,440 Speaker 3: by gear or how electronics work, or the types of 167 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:33,480 Speaker 3: things that it's not really how my brain works. 168 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:34,320 Speaker 2: I can't figure it out. 169 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:36,840 Speaker 3: But like watching somebody who's super into and it's like 170 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:38,720 Speaker 3: this watch is broken, I'm going to open it up 171 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 3: myself and try to figure out how to fix it, 172 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:43,680 Speaker 3: or that sort of curiosity. I just I love watching 173 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 3: people exercise their version of curiosity. 174 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean I had an uncle who, uh in India, 175 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:53,560 Speaker 1: microwaves weren't available in the seventies, I think, great indies, 176 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:57,719 Speaker 1: and he went to the buy and got two microwaves 177 00:08:57,800 --> 00:08:59,320 Speaker 1: and one was to use and one was just to 178 00:08:59,320 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 1: take apart. 179 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 2: Yeah that's so cool. No, I love that. That's pretty great. 180 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:04,600 Speaker 1: So in terms of curiosity, when it comes to the 181 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:08,640 Speaker 1: scientific definition, it's not as easy as you might think. 182 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 1: Some studies measure curiosity by tracking eye movement. In other words, 183 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:14,360 Speaker 1: they're saying that if you choose to look at something, 184 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 1: that means you're curious about it. Many researchers define curiosity 185 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 1: as the self reported desire for information that has no 186 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:25,160 Speaker 1: clear purpose or utility. Doctor Celeste Kidd is the director 187 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 1: of the Kid Lab at UC Berkeley, where she studies 188 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:31,960 Speaker 1: curiosity and knowledge acquisition, and she says, there's actually one 189 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:33,640 Speaker 1: big flaw with this approach. 190 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 7: It's very hard to know in advance of encountering a 191 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 7: particular situation whether a particular piece of information is going 192 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:43,600 Speaker 7: to be useful or not. A more concrete way of 193 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 7: saying that is, maybe, to example, you might for some 194 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 7: reason become fixated on tracking down a particular move that 195 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 7: you remember seeing Usher do in the early two thousands 196 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:58,400 Speaker 7: and go on a deep dive trying to locate this clip. 197 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 7: You don't need that runny direct purpose. However, knowing that 198 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:07,319 Speaker 7: piece of information could lead you to be interested in 199 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:09,920 Speaker 7: other pieces of information that's serve a function later. 200 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:12,760 Speaker 3: Okay, no disrespect to Usher, but I don't see how 201 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:15,440 Speaker 3: tracking down an old video of him dancing would make 202 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:16,960 Speaker 3: an impact on your life. 203 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:21,680 Speaker 1: Well, clearly you haven't watched enough Usher, But what if 204 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:25,079 Speaker 1: that video reawakens your love of dance, so you start 205 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:27,880 Speaker 1: looking for adult dance classes in your area and eventually 206 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 1: quit your job and build a new career as a 207 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:32,640 Speaker 1: backup dancer. What if the Usher video sends you down 208 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:34,920 Speaker 1: a rabbit hole of nineties R and B and use 209 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:37,600 Speaker 1: that knowledge to make a killer playlist for someone you're dating, 210 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:40,400 Speaker 1: and that helps you eventually get married. I mean, they're 211 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:41,599 Speaker 1: also got this whole. 212 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:44,959 Speaker 3: Thing that I think you just explored your dream there, 213 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:46,520 Speaker 3: and I mean it may seem a little far fetched, 214 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 3: but I guess stranger things have definitely happened. 215 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:51,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, that's I guess Kid's point. Right. We 216 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 1: can't say with one hundred percent certainty that any given 217 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:57,199 Speaker 1: piece of information won't have meaningful value in the future 218 00:10:57,559 --> 00:11:00,320 Speaker 1: because all of this is so subjective. Instead of trying 219 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:03,679 Speaker 1: to land on one perfect clinical definition, it actually might 220 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:07,720 Speaker 1: be simpler to focus on different flavors of curiosity. So 221 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:11,640 Speaker 1: over the years, there have been various attempts at categorizing curiosity, 222 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:15,000 Speaker 1: but one of the most prominent frameworks separates it into 223 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:18,240 Speaker 1: two types, state versus trait curiosity. 224 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 3: Actually this came up just this morning because we were 225 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:22,959 Speaker 3: looking at a list of the states, and I would say, 226 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:26,400 Speaker 3: my biggest state curiosity is why is Arkansas pronounced that way? 227 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 2: Do we want to spend the rest of the episode 228 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:28,520 Speaker 2: exploring that? 229 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:30,319 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's because it was derived from the 230 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:32,720 Speaker 1: French name for native tribes who lived in the region. 231 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:35,560 Speaker 1: The folks in Arkansas kept the French pronunciation and up 232 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:38,080 Speaker 1: the river in Kansas they decided to anglicize it. But 233 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 1: that is not. 234 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:42,360 Speaker 2: I love you knew the answer to that. That's impressive. 235 00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 1: State curiosity is when your curiosity is activated by a 236 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 1: particular topic or situation, Like if you realize that you 237 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:53,080 Speaker 1: have a deep interest in the origin of place names, 238 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 1: that would be state curiosity. Trait curiosity is what it's 239 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 1: called when you're just naturally curious about lots of things. 240 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:03,000 Speaker 3: So basically, some people are curious all the time, like 241 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 3: it's part of their personality, and then other people are 242 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:07,719 Speaker 3: only curious when something comes along that. 243 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:09,439 Speaker 2: I don't know that really interests them exactly. 244 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:11,600 Speaker 3: So I guess you and I would rank pretty high 245 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 3: on the trait curiosity scale. 246 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:14,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely, I mean, it's why we do the show. 247 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:18,120 Speaker 1: So as someone who experiences a lot of curiosity, one 248 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 1: of the things I wanted to know was why does 249 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:22,080 Speaker 1: it feel so good to get an answer to a 250 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 1: question you're curious about, even if it's something you know 251 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 1: is kind of pointless. And according to doctor Kid, it's 252 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:32,880 Speaker 1: because satisfying your curiosity releases all these feel good brain chemicals, 253 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:35,960 Speaker 1: including dopamine, which is the newer transmitter that's associated with 254 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:39,800 Speaker 1: feelings of pleasure and motivation, reward, all those things. 255 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I did some reading about that, and 256 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:44,120 Speaker 3: there have actually been studies that try to show exactly 257 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 3: how this process works. So I think my favorite was 258 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 3: one where they put people in an MRI machine and 259 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 3: then they made them read trivia questions. It's kind of cool, right, 260 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:55,559 Speaker 3: like a terrible trivia I'm glad I wasn't one of them, 261 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:58,439 Speaker 3: but I'm also glad they did this. But perhaps unsurprisingly, 262 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:01,920 Speaker 3: people who reported higher level of curiosity about the trivia 263 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:04,920 Speaker 3: questions showed clear activation in the parts of the brain 264 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:08,200 Speaker 3: associated with reward anticipation, so. 265 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:11,440 Speaker 1: They were all ready for that big dopamine hitting. 266 00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:14,120 Speaker 3: Yes, that's exactly right, but brains are complicated, and our 267 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 3: brains on curiosity appear to be very complicated. For example, 268 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 3: in another experiment, people were shown blurry images, which made 269 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 3: them curious about what they were looking at until clear 270 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:27,760 Speaker 3: versions of the images were finally revealed. Now, during that test, 271 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 3: researchers found the activation in the parts of the brain 272 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:34,840 Speaker 3: related to unpleasant events. In other words, from a neurochemical standpoint, 273 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:37,320 Speaker 3: curiosity can be a quest for that good feeling that 274 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:40,400 Speaker 3: comes from getting information you really want, or it can 275 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:42,840 Speaker 3: be more like an aversion, an attempt to avoid the 276 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:45,839 Speaker 3: bad feeling of not knowing something. So in two thousand 277 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:48,559 Speaker 3: and five, a psychologist named Jordan Littman suggested that there 278 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 3: are actually distinct types of curiosity, which he called interest 279 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:57,960 Speaker 3: curiosity or eye curiosity, and deprivation curiosity or de curiosity. 280 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:01,320 Speaker 1: That's really fascinating. I can definitely think of times when 281 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:05,680 Speaker 1: not knowing something has energized me, right like even late 282 00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:07,680 Speaker 1: at night you fall into a rival hole or whatever, 283 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 1: and you're more excited to learn. But other times, not 284 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:13,040 Speaker 1: knowing the answer to a question can be really negative 285 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:15,120 Speaker 1: and often a frustrating experience. 286 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:18,079 Speaker 3: And that's true, but remember curiosity isn't always tied to 287 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:21,840 Speaker 3: specific questions. So as humans, we crave novelty, and if 288 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 3: our brains don't have enough stimulation in general, we can 289 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 3: also get really frustrated. Like I read about these experiments 290 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:31,080 Speaker 3: at McGill University back in the nineteen fifties, where researchers 291 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 3: paid healthy college students twenty dollars a day to sit 292 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 3: in a room. They were comfortable, they had plenty of food, 293 00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:40,560 Speaker 3: but there was nothing to see, hear, or touch, and 294 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:42,840 Speaker 3: for the first four to eight hours people were fine, 295 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:46,160 Speaker 3: but then the need for stimulation, any kind of stimulation, 296 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:50,239 Speaker 3: became pretty unbearable, so subjects were offered recordings of incredibly 297 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:53,480 Speaker 3: boring material, like a lecture for kids on the dangers 298 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:57,000 Speaker 3: of drinking or an outdated stock market report. One student 299 00:14:57,040 --> 00:14:59,640 Speaker 3: asked to listen to the drinking lecture twenty times and 300 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:01,040 Speaker 3: a already hour period. 301 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:02,440 Speaker 2: That's how desperate he was. 302 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:08,440 Speaker 1: Wow. So we really are hardwired for mental stimulation and 303 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:10,640 Speaker 1: we want to engage with the world beyond ourselves. 304 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:13,240 Speaker 3: It's exactly right, And it seems that curiosity benefits our 305 00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 3: brains in other ways beyond just boosting dopamine and helping 306 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:19,400 Speaker 3: us avoid the discomfort of being uncertain or bored. Some 307 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:21,800 Speaker 3: of those blurry image studies I mentioned earlier found the 308 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:25,600 Speaker 3: link between curiosity and enhanced memory, so people had an 309 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:28,080 Speaker 3: easier time recalling images that they saw when they were 310 00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:30,760 Speaker 3: curious about what they were looking at. So after we 311 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 3: take a quick break, we'll talk more about what triggers 312 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:37,120 Speaker 3: curiosity and how that can affect everyday situations like drinking 313 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 3: oat milk and scrolling through cat photos online. 314 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 8: So don't go anywhere. 315 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:58,240 Speaker 1: Welcome back to Part Time Genius. It is day one 316 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:01,680 Speaker 1: of our week long dive into the fin phenomena of curiosity, 317 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:04,160 Speaker 1: and I hope you've enjoyed what you've heard so far. 318 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:07,600 Speaker 1: If you have, we are curious for how you feel 319 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:10,360 Speaker 1: about the show. Please leave us a nice rating and 320 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:13,520 Speaker 1: review and share this episode with a friend. We appreciate 321 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:16,800 Speaker 1: it so much, so will. Before the break, we were 322 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 1: talking about how curiosity can give us a hit of dopamine. 323 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 1: It can also improve our memory and of course make 324 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:25,800 Speaker 1: us better at trivia games. So if curiosity is so 325 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:28,960 Speaker 1: good for us, why aren't we curious about everything all 326 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:32,680 Speaker 1: the time. Well, Celeste Kid, the academic we were talking 327 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:36,720 Speaker 1: to before, says that triggering curiosity requires a specific set 328 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:39,040 Speaker 1: of conditions that vary from person to person. 329 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:42,160 Speaker 7: One of the things that we know from my lab's 330 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 7: research is that you are not just curious about anything. 331 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:49,000 Speaker 7: Any information gap is not equally attractive. You are, in 332 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:54,600 Speaker 7: particular drawn to resolve the information gaps that are just 333 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:57,840 Speaker 7: right with respect to what you currently know. So the 334 00:16:57,880 --> 00:16:59,680 Speaker 7: things that are the most attractive were things that are 335 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 7: a little different from what you currently understand, but not 336 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:05,240 Speaker 7: so different that it would be difficult to encode them. 337 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:10,679 Speaker 7: I don't know the entire Swedish language, and while I 338 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:12,920 Speaker 7: do think it would be cool if I learned some Swedish, 339 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:15,359 Speaker 7: I'm not super motivated till I drop everything and do 340 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:17,679 Speaker 7: that right now. Because I don't know any of it. 341 00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 7: That makes it less attractive than learning something about a 342 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:23,560 Speaker 7: topic that I have some background in. 343 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:27,240 Speaker 1: And apparently the inverse is true too, so if we 344 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:30,840 Speaker 1: think we already know everything about a topic, it's less 345 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:34,199 Speaker 1: likely to make us curious. In a study involving trivia questions, 346 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 1: people who had no clue about the answers and people 347 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:40,360 Speaker 1: who were confident they knew the answers were least curious 348 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 1: during the test. Curiosity was highest among participants who thought 349 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 1: they might have some idea about the answers. But weren't 350 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:48,280 Speaker 1: entirely certain, you. 351 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:51,480 Speaker 3: Know, I know when we would do live trivia events 352 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:54,639 Speaker 3: and things like that related to mental flows. I always 353 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:56,680 Speaker 3: thought that was fun, like that sort of the science 354 00:17:56,680 --> 00:17:59,199 Speaker 3: of coming up with just the perfect question. So people like, 355 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:01,040 Speaker 3: maybe I don't know, I want to know that, but 356 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:03,720 Speaker 3: I feel like maybe I could guess it, but I really. 357 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:04,439 Speaker 2: Want to know the answer to that. 358 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:05,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, all right. 359 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:08,320 Speaker 3: So we know that certain things pique our curiosity more 360 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:11,920 Speaker 3: than others, and that getting our curiosity satisfied rewards us 361 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:14,520 Speaker 3: with a rush of dopamine. But actually wanted to know 362 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:17,080 Speaker 3: how does all of this affect our behavior? And to 363 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 3: answer that question, we turn now to a group of 364 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:23,040 Speaker 3: people who are extremely interested in this topic, marketing experts, 365 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:28,280 Speaker 3: not scientists. Well, marketing often involves psychology and behavioral science, 366 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 3: and people who study consumer behavior spend a lot of 367 00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:34,680 Speaker 3: time thinking about curiosity because it's such a powerful motivator. 368 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:37,679 Speaker 3: You obviously know the term impulse by right, Yeah, of course, 369 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:41,040 Speaker 3: what's actually the last thing that you impulse bought? 370 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:45,000 Speaker 1: I keep buying gadgets and gear related to tennis because 371 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:47,679 Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, maybe this could help me improve a little, 372 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:50,320 Speaker 1: but maybe this will dampen the strings. As I play 373 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:53,240 Speaker 1: and I see some demonstration, I'm like, oh, yeah, maybe 374 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:53,920 Speaker 1: I tried that out. 375 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:56,520 Speaker 3: I wish mine was healthy like that, and I could 376 00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:58,400 Speaker 3: make up one. But I'm going to be honest. It's 377 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:03,080 Speaker 3: always just a candy bar, right, just always, always a 378 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:03,680 Speaker 3: candy bar. 379 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:05,920 Speaker 1: What's so funny is you're so much more fit than. 380 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:09,280 Speaker 3: It's just they're so good, and you sit there and 381 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:11,400 Speaker 3: you're like, I don't need it, but there it is, 382 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:13,640 Speaker 3: and I haven't had that one, or it's like yesterday, 383 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:15,400 Speaker 3: I was like, I bet it's been five years since 384 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:16,359 Speaker 3: I've had a butterfinger. 385 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 2: So I had a butterfinger. You know, it was curious. 386 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:21,719 Speaker 2: It tastes still good, still good, same formula thing from 387 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:22,440 Speaker 2: what I can tell. 388 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 3: But anyway, obviously, sometimes we make impulse bies to satisfy 389 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:28,840 Speaker 3: a different kind of need or want. So you're at 390 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:32,240 Speaker 3: the checkout, you see that candy bar and you realize 391 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:34,920 Speaker 3: you're hungry and that lunch isn't for another couple of hours. 392 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:38,239 Speaker 3: But marketing studies have shown that curiosity itself is a 393 00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:42,440 Speaker 3: powerful driver of impulse purchasing that's really hard to resist. 394 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:44,960 Speaker 2: Like you're at the checkout, you just ate lunch. 395 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:47,760 Speaker 3: But you see your favorite candy bar, has you know 396 00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:50,240 Speaker 3: some new seasonal pumpkin spice flavor? 397 00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:51,920 Speaker 2: Is it any good? You want to know? And there's 398 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:53,080 Speaker 2: only one way to find out? 399 00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:55,240 Speaker 1: And if I buy it, I got that little jewelt 400 00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:58,040 Speaker 1: of satisfaction from finding out what it tastes like. Even if, 401 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:00,520 Speaker 1: like me, you don't like pumpkins. 402 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:01,199 Speaker 7: I'm with you. 403 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:01,639 Speaker 2: I'm with you. 404 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:03,480 Speaker 3: We're probably gonna get so much hate mail for that, 405 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:05,600 Speaker 3: but I feel the same way. And you know, because 406 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:08,680 Speaker 3: curiosity in the quest for novelty do go hand in hand, 407 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:11,880 Speaker 3: this can also plan to our enthusiasm for new brands 408 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:14,359 Speaker 3: and new products. So several years ago, there was a 409 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:17,240 Speaker 3: study that looked at what might motivate Americans to buy 410 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:20,240 Speaker 3: plant based milk and also what might make them willing 411 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 3: to pay a premium for it, because plant milk is 412 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:25,919 Speaker 3: often pricier than dairy. So the study authors came up 413 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:29,080 Speaker 3: with a list of hypotheses like, you know, quote, people 414 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:32,760 Speaker 3: are concerned about animal welfare and people think plant based 415 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:35,200 Speaker 3: milk is better for the environment. Well, it turned out 416 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:37,359 Speaker 3: that people did think it was worth paying more for 417 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:41,640 Speaker 3: products that are environmentally friendly and good for animals, but overall, 418 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:44,159 Speaker 3: these things didn't make them interested in picking up a 419 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 3: gallon of oat milk. 420 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:49,280 Speaker 2: But you want to know what did curiosity? You nailed it. 421 00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:52,560 Speaker 3: People were motivated to buy plant based milk because they 422 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:55,120 Speaker 3: were curious about it, and they were so curious, in fact, 423 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:57,680 Speaker 3: that they'd said they'd be willing to pay higher prices 424 00:20:57,680 --> 00:20:57,959 Speaker 3: for it. 425 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:01,760 Speaker 1: But oat milk isn't even that, I mean, I guess not. 426 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:04,520 Speaker 3: But imagine how powerful this dynamic could be when you're 427 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:07,200 Speaker 3: selling bigger ticket items or when you're trying to grab 428 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 3: people's attention, which, as you know, is a valuable commodity. 429 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:13,880 Speaker 3: You remember, these curiosity gap hadlines that started popping up 430 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 3: everywhere back in twenty twelve twenty thirteen around that time. 431 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:19,480 Speaker 2: It's like what you and I did at the. 432 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:21,800 Speaker 3: Top of the show, like this toddler grabbed a knife 433 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:24,200 Speaker 3: and what happened next will shock you. I mean, it's 434 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:26,960 Speaker 3: so stupid, but you end up clicking because you got 435 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:30,199 Speaker 3: to know what that tyler did with that knife. 436 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:32,480 Speaker 1: I mean, what did that toddler do? 437 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:32,679 Speaker 6: This? 438 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:35,280 Speaker 2: We're gon we're going to read after this episode. 439 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:38,400 Speaker 1: Obviously, half the time that doesn't really shock you, right, 440 00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 1: Like it's always like a letdown and it's total bit 441 00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:41,480 Speaker 1: and switch. 442 00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:44,760 Speaker 3: But it works every time because that combination of curiosity 443 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 3: and strong emotion is almost irresistible. And we see this 444 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:51,960 Speaker 3: tactic all around us, especially online. So producer Mary called 445 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 3: up one of the most online people we know, former 446 00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:58,040 Speaker 3: BuzzFeed editorial director Jack Sheppard. Jack told us that he 447 00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:00,680 Speaker 3: and his team tried to avoid curiosity g app headlines 448 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:03,640 Speaker 3: because there's such a big risk of disappointing your audience. 449 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 3: You do it time and again and people stop trusting 450 00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:08,560 Speaker 3: your headlines, and then you know, it erodes that trust 451 00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 3: and discourages sharing on social media. But he said they 452 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:15,320 Speaker 3: did find other ways of using that powerful curiosity and 453 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:17,879 Speaker 3: emotion combo to make things go viral. 454 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:19,520 Speaker 9: A type of post that I would do all the 455 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:21,560 Speaker 9: time would be like one of my most popular posts 456 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:25,240 Speaker 9: of BuzzFeed was the one hundred most important cat pictures. 457 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:25,320 Speaker 8: Of all time. 458 00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:30,000 Speaker 9: I remember that, and you know, again, in terms of 459 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:32,160 Speaker 9: like promising and delivering, like I don't want to say 460 00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:34,439 Speaker 9: that this was a serious journalism, but I spent days 461 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:36,800 Speaker 9: making sure that each and every one of those one 462 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:40,639 Speaker 9: hundred pictures was indeed important. The emotion that you're going 463 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:43,920 Speaker 9: to experience is the emotion you experience when you see 464 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:47,840 Speaker 9: something really cute and the curiosity is like, well, what's 465 00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:50,520 Speaker 9: the best one? You know, that's the classic curiosity of 466 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:53,280 Speaker 9: a list like that, which one's made the cut? And 467 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:56,680 Speaker 9: then another one would be an identity play, which is 468 00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:59,480 Speaker 9: something that we did a lot, things like twenty five Things. 469 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:02,920 Speaker 9: You'll only end understand if you grew up the youngest sibling. 470 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:06,760 Speaker 9: There's a curiosity play there too, exactly where it's like, Okay, 471 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:09,160 Speaker 9: is this going to speak to my identity? Are they 472 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:11,520 Speaker 9: going to say the thing that's like you never got 473 00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:13,680 Speaker 9: to sit in the front seat or whatever that actually 474 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:17,520 Speaker 9: triggers that sort of real identity response, and then, of course, 475 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:21,880 Speaker 9: in BuzzFeed's case, that eventually translated into quizzes. So that's 476 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:25,560 Speaker 9: literally a question, you know, which avenger are you is? 477 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:27,080 Speaker 9: You know, it's like I need to know. I want 478 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:28,200 Speaker 9: to know which avenger I am. 479 00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:32,000 Speaker 1: I mean, it seems so obvious, right, but it sounds 480 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:33,879 Speaker 1: like people put a lot of thought into how a 481 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:37,439 Speaker 1: specific story or headline or type of content will elicit 482 00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:38,960 Speaker 1: curiosity in the audience. 483 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:40,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know we do it too, Like a 484 00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:44,520 Speaker 3: lot of our episode titles are questions as Jack was saying, though, 485 00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:47,399 Speaker 3: we always try to deliver what we promise, so if 486 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:49,560 Speaker 3: you listen to the episode, you will in fact get 487 00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:53,120 Speaker 3: the answer to the question. But by appealing to your curiosity, 488 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:55,639 Speaker 3: we're hoping to get your attention. So to take some 489 00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:57,919 Speaker 3: time away from your busy day and hang out with 490 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:00,080 Speaker 3: us so you can learn a little something new and 491 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:03,919 Speaker 3: hopefully something fun and ridiculous. And speaking of delivering on 492 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:06,000 Speaker 3: what we promise every day, this week we have a 493 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:09,840 Speaker 3: curiosity related activity for our listeners, and anyone who participates 494 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:12,240 Speaker 3: will have a chance to win a part Time Genius 495 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:14,719 Speaker 3: Prize pack. Mega you heard that, a part Time Genius 496 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:18,160 Speaker 3: Prize pack. So today, inspired by our conversation with Jack, 497 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 3: we've made a quiz that is absolutely designed to activate 498 00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:25,240 Speaker 3: your curiosity and your sense of identity. It's called which 499 00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:27,000 Speaker 3: part Time Genius co host are you? 500 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:27,640 Speaker 1: Yeah? 501 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:30,920 Speaker 3: I bet people are wondering that for NonStop. Yeah, for years, 502 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,399 Speaker 3: So it makes so many questions. Well, now you can 503 00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 3: finally get the answer. So you take the quiz and 504 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:38,560 Speaker 3: share your results with us on Instagram or Blue Sky 505 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:41,600 Speaker 3: at Part Time Genius. We'll pick one person at random 506 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:45,119 Speaker 3: to win a prize. Deadline is Sunday, October twenty sixth, 507 00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:47,280 Speaker 3: and all the details and links are in the show 508 00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:49,080 Speaker 3: notes and on our social media accounts. 509 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:51,959 Speaker 1: Do you remember when we did that? It was like 510 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:56,159 Speaker 1: Ben and Jerry's flavors that have been retired or paint 511 00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:58,800 Speaker 1: colors or something. And then I think Ben from Ben 512 00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 1: and Jerry's took it and got like seven under. 513 00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't didn't get them all. That was so satisfied. 514 00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:05,160 Speaker 1: I'm really curious about I'm gonna be a will er Mango. 515 00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:06,440 Speaker 2: After I take this question. 516 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:08,280 Speaker 3: You're gonna take the quiz. All right, I'll take it 517 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:10,479 Speaker 3: with you. We compare results, but all right, we have 518 00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:13,320 Speaker 3: one last break. But when we come back, how technology 519 00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:16,959 Speaker 3: praise on our sense of deprivation curiosity and what we 520 00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 3: can do about it, plus why it's so easy for 521 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:22,200 Speaker 3: some of us to fall head first down research rabbit 522 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:34,280 Speaker 3: holes don't go anywhere. 523 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:39,640 Speaker 2: Welcome back to part time genius. 524 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:43,080 Speaker 3: Okay, Mango, you remember earlier I mentioned d curiosity or 525 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:46,479 Speaker 3: deprivation curiosity, and it turns out a lot of apps 526 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,480 Speaker 3: in social media are designed to trigger that particular type 527 00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:52,359 Speaker 3: of curiosity, that nagging sense that you have to know 528 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,120 Speaker 3: what's happening and that you'll be deprived if you don't. 529 00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:57,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like it's almost like a type of fomo, right. 530 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:00,399 Speaker 3: It kind of, but it can feel more in tends 531 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,240 Speaker 3: than that, Like all those pings and red notification alert 532 00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:07,320 Speaker 3: signals that something urgent and unknown is out there, even 533 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:10,320 Speaker 3: though it's probably aunt susan posting or vacation photos or 534 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:12,440 Speaker 3: pundit sharing a link to an article that we don't 535 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:14,960 Speaker 3: even really want to read. Our brains know that there 536 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:18,320 Speaker 3: is a chance something really important is going on, and 537 00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:20,959 Speaker 3: in the past, not paying attention to something urgent and 538 00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:23,520 Speaker 3: unknown could actually be life threatening, right, Like you don't 539 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:25,560 Speaker 3: want to be the one person who doesn't see the 540 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:29,000 Speaker 3: sabertooth tiger running down the hill or something scary like that. 541 00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:32,280 Speaker 3: So it's hard to override that instinct to grab your phone, 542 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 3: start scrolling, keep scrolling, and keep scrolling. 543 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:35,920 Speaker 2: Yeah. 544 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:38,120 Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like I know this all too well, 545 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:40,159 Speaker 1: and I know that my phone kind of prays on me. 546 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 1: Are you saying there's no way to turn off this 547 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:43,120 Speaker 1: type of curiosity? 548 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:45,719 Speaker 3: I mean maybe not, but we can read direct it 549 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:48,720 Speaker 3: and neuroscientists have looked at this one. In particular, jud 550 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:51,600 Speaker 3: Brewer wrote a great article about this, And here's what 551 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,520 Speaker 3: he suggests. When you feel that urge to check your phone, 552 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 3: get curious about the urge itself. Ask yourself, what does 553 00:26:58,040 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 3: this feel like for me? Physically? 554 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:01,840 Speaker 2: Am I bored? Am I anxious? 555 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:05,919 Speaker 3: Why did this particular notification seem so appealing? What this 556 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 3: does is pivot you away from the grip of d curiosity, 557 00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:11,960 Speaker 3: that feeling that you're missing out on something, and toward 558 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:15,719 Speaker 3: the realm of eye curiosity or interest curiosity. So suddenly 559 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:17,800 Speaker 3: you're operating from a place of wanting to learn more 560 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:20,680 Speaker 3: on your own terms, instead of chasing after some sense 561 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:24,160 Speaker 3: of satisfaction that you may never really get. Because there's 562 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:27,280 Speaker 3: an infinite stream of content online, there will always be 563 00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:29,840 Speaker 3: more that you haven't seen, and you'll never be able 564 00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:30,560 Speaker 3: to consume at all. 565 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:33,360 Speaker 1: That's really good advice, although I know it's easier said 566 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:37,760 Speaker 1: than done. Grappling with phone addiction is obviously a relatively 567 00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:42,040 Speaker 1: new phenomena. These bigger questions about the neuroscience and psychology 568 00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:44,720 Speaker 1: of curiosity are things that scientists have actually been thinking 569 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:48,320 Speaker 1: about for centuries. Pavlov, you know the guy with the dogs. 570 00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:52,040 Speaker 1: He thought curiosity was a sort of reflex. The great 571 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:56,520 Speaker 1: psychologist William James called curiosity the impulse towards better cognition, 572 00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:00,320 Speaker 1: placing it in the realm of knowledge and intellect. However 573 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:03,600 Speaker 1: you view it, curiosity is a defining trait of human beings, 574 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:07,080 Speaker 1: and according to Celeste kid, the defining nature of our 575 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:10,040 Speaker 1: curiosity is how incredibly specific it can be. 576 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:16,919 Speaker 7: Human curiosity occupies a lot of our time trying to 577 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:20,680 Speaker 7: resolve it. People get very very deep, they get very 578 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,760 Speaker 7: very specific in curiosity is the driving force that allows 579 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:26,880 Speaker 7: us to do that. The result is we as scientists, 580 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:31,199 Speaker 7: we have reporters. We have people that specialize in Renaissance 581 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,560 Speaker 7: era costuming. They know everything about the fabric. What this 582 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:37,440 Speaker 7: means is that at a population level, we are much 583 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:41,680 Speaker 7: smarter than even our closest evolutionary relatives. As a population, 584 00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:45,640 Speaker 7: we have an incredible wealth of knowledge that venovos and 585 00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:48,440 Speaker 7: chimps do not have that allow us to build computers 586 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:52,520 Speaker 7: and build and flight planes. The cost of that is 587 00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:55,920 Speaker 7: that we've lost the basic knowledge we would need to 588 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:57,480 Speaker 7: survive as individuals. 589 00:28:57,920 --> 00:28:59,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, I can't imagine there are many chimps that know 590 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:03,440 Speaker 3: anything about Renaissance era or costuming. But we think about 591 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:05,960 Speaker 3: the average chum can survive in the wild by itself 592 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,840 Speaker 3: and a lot of us humans. We rely pretty heavily 593 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:09,440 Speaker 3: on takeout. 594 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:11,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right, And because we like to think about 595 00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:15,360 Speaker 1: highly specific ideas, humans have a tendency to fall down 596 00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:18,360 Speaker 1: curiosity rabbit holes. And that's when you start out with 597 00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:21,240 Speaker 1: a simple question like why do rabbits have long ears? 598 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:23,040 Speaker 1: And the next thing you know, it's two hours later 599 00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:25,680 Speaker 1: you're reading an article about Chester Greenwood, the guy who 600 00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:29,320 Speaker 1: invented ear muffs. Right, and doctor Kid said, this happens 601 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:32,200 Speaker 1: when the initial piece of information we want is difficult 602 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:34,920 Speaker 1: to get, and as we work towards finding the answers 603 00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:37,960 Speaker 1: we want, we encounter additional information, maybe something we hadn't 604 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:40,920 Speaker 1: even thought about before, and that opens up new questions 605 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,640 Speaker 1: or ideas we want to explore. So these days, of course, 606 00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:45,440 Speaker 1: it's easier than ever to do this because we have 607 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:48,600 Speaker 1: so much information at our fingertips. Wikipedia is probably one 608 00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:51,440 Speaker 1: of the best known rabbit holes sources on the Internet today, 609 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:54,960 Speaker 1: and last year some researchers actually studied the site in 610 00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 1: order to understand different patterns of curiosity. They tracked almost 611 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:02,120 Speaker 1: half a million Wikipedia users around the world, and what 612 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:04,720 Speaker 1: they found is that most people who go down Wikipedia 613 00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:08,720 Speaker 1: rabbit holes fit one of three types. Busybodies who zigzag 614 00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:12,920 Speaker 1: through a wide range of vaguely related topics, hunters who 615 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:16,120 Speaker 1: are more focused and searching a smaller number of more 616 00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:20,720 Speaker 1: closely connected pages, And dancers, who take a more abstract approach. 617 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:23,920 Speaker 1: They hop between unrelated topics in an attempt to find 618 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:25,480 Speaker 1: new ideas and connections. 619 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:28,360 Speaker 2: Which one of these do you feel like you identify 620 00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:28,840 Speaker 2: with most? 621 00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:33,880 Speaker 1: I think I'm different things on different nights. Oh okay, 622 00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:36,960 Speaker 1: don't you. I mean, like, there are knights where you're 623 00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:38,920 Speaker 1: looking for something specific, and then the knights when you're 624 00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:39,840 Speaker 1: like hopping around. 625 00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:43,000 Speaker 3: I guess so I do think the others may sound 626 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:45,440 Speaker 3: more interesting, like I love the idea of some of 627 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:47,520 Speaker 3: the others. I do think most of the time I 628 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:50,120 Speaker 3: find myself in the hunter category if I'm being honest, 629 00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:53,360 Speaker 3: where there's just a thing that you're like searching for 630 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:55,240 Speaker 3: and you're like, Okay, I'll learn more about that. I'll 631 00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:57,200 Speaker 3: learn more about that. I'll learn more about that. But 632 00:30:57,480 --> 00:30:59,200 Speaker 3: the other types are really fun. It's one of those 633 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:00,520 Speaker 3: where it's like if you felt like you had more 634 00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:02,680 Speaker 3: hours in the day, I. 635 00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:04,400 Speaker 1: Think you're right. And I think also like because our 636 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:07,960 Speaker 1: jobs involve learning so much all the time. It's very 637 00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:10,320 Speaker 1: specific information that we're seeking out totally. Yeah. 638 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:11,320 Speaker 6: So. 639 00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:13,320 Speaker 1: One of the authors of the study is a University 640 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:17,600 Speaker 1: of Pennsylvania network scientist named Danny Bassett, who's written extensively 641 00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:21,200 Speaker 1: about curiosity. They say it's not just about acquiring bits 642 00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:25,200 Speaker 1: of information, it's about forming connections between pieces of information, 643 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:28,960 Speaker 1: a practice they call knowledge network building, and they believe 644 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:31,240 Speaker 1: we can learn a lot more about curiosity by using 645 00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:34,880 Speaker 1: the tools of network science like mapping and modeling to 646 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:37,360 Speaker 1: get a concrete picture of how the hunt for one 647 00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:40,360 Speaker 1: piece of information leads to another. In fact, it has 648 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,440 Speaker 1: already been proven that our brains are capable of organizing 649 00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:46,560 Speaker 1: concepts into a map, and that's because we have specialized 650 00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:50,880 Speaker 1: neurons called grid cells that fire as we explore physical spaces, 651 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:55,600 Speaker 1: recording and integrating information about location, direction, and distance. And 652 00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:59,680 Speaker 1: it turns out that navigating physical space and navigating information 653 00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:02,800 Speaker 1: light up similar regions in the brain. Isn't that insane? 654 00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:03,200 Speaker 2: Yeah? 655 00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:05,480 Speaker 1: So, who knows, Maybe someday we'll be able to plot 656 00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:09,600 Speaker 1: our next Wikipedia rabbit hole adventure in Google maps in 657 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:10,400 Speaker 1: an app of the mind. 658 00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:13,520 Speaker 3: It does sound really cool, but I am thinking this 659 00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:16,200 Speaker 3: app needs some privacy settings because no one needs to 660 00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:17,960 Speaker 3: know how much time I spent reading about the history 661 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:20,640 Speaker 3: of pop rocks when I was supposed to be working 662 00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:21,680 Speaker 3: on this episode. 663 00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:23,640 Speaker 1: How much time did you spend doing that. 664 00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:26,600 Speaker 3: M I'd say that's between me and my browser, Maga. 665 00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:28,760 Speaker 3: But all right, mego before we call it a day, 666 00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:31,040 Speaker 3: we need to close that information gap. I left you 667 00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:34,120 Speaker 3: with the very beginning of this episode. What was Dylan 668 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:36,800 Speaker 3: up to when we started recording? So are you ready 669 00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:37,360 Speaker 3: to find out? 670 00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:38,880 Speaker 1: You know? I'm so ready? 671 00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:40,280 Speaker 2: All right over to you, Dylan. 672 00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:42,880 Speaker 4: Hey, guys, I was building a life size replica of 673 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:47,000 Speaker 4: behavioral economist George Lowenstein, made entirely from marshmallows. I don't know. 674 00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:48,440 Speaker 4: I just thought it'd be a nice way to arm 675 00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:51,160 Speaker 4: the man who developed the information gap theory. Also, we 676 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:53,960 Speaker 4: had a lot of marshmallows in the booth for some reason. Anyway, 677 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:56,640 Speaker 4: great episode. I learned so much. But let's wrap it 678 00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:58,960 Speaker 4: up now. I want to make George into Smortars. 679 00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:01,080 Speaker 1: I not see that coming. 680 00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:02,200 Speaker 2: So is your mind blown? 681 00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:02,920 Speaker 8: Sure? 682 00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:06,440 Speaker 2: Well, because you were such a good sport about. 683 00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:09,520 Speaker 3: Being left in suspense, Mango, I'm awarding you today's trophy. 684 00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:10,160 Speaker 2: Congratulations. 685 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:12,080 Speaker 1: I'll accept it, but of course I have to share 686 00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:14,959 Speaker 1: with Dylan as long as he shares his s'mores. 687 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:17,080 Speaker 3: It looks like there's plenty to go around, so we 688 00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:19,480 Speaker 3: should be good. But that does it for today. Our 689 00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:22,840 Speaker 3: week long celebration of curiosity continues tomorrow, when we'll be 690 00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:25,840 Speaker 3: talking about the history of curiosity, from the Middle Ages 691 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:29,200 Speaker 3: when it was considered a dangerous threat to society to 692 00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:31,600 Speaker 3: today when we're able to look up anything we want 693 00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:34,280 Speaker 3: on our phones. Plus we'll dig into the origin of 694 00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:36,880 Speaker 3: the creepy phrase curiosity killed the cat. 695 00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:39,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, I can't wait, and don't forget to take our 696 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:42,240 Speaker 1: wich PTG co host are You Quiz and share the 697 00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:44,560 Speaker 1: results with us on Instagram or Blue Sky and go 698 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:49,160 Speaker 1: our Genius. Be sure to follow us because we're doing 699 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:52,040 Speaker 1: fun activities and giveaways all week. You do not want 700 00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:54,640 Speaker 1: to miss out. Thank you to the wonderful Metro but 701 00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:57,520 Speaker 1: Shahi for collecting field tape for us, And thanks to 702 00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:01,000 Speaker 1: doctor Celeste Kidd and Jack Sheppard for sharing their insights 703 00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:05,760 Speaker 1: today from Will Dylan, Mary Gabe and myself. Thank you 704 00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:20,240 Speaker 1: so much for listening. Part Time Genius is a production 705 00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:24,040 Speaker 1: of Kaleidoscope and iHeartRadio. This show is hosted by Will 706 00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:28,359 Speaker 1: Pearson and me Mongage Chatikler and researched by our good 707 00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:32,680 Speaker 1: pal Mary Philip Sandy. Today's episode was engineered and produced 708 00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:36,000 Speaker 1: by the wonderful Dylan Fagan with support from Tyler Klang. 709 00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:39,840 Speaker 1: The show is executive produced for iHeart by Katrina Norvell 710 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:43,040 Speaker 1: and Ali Perry, with social media support from Sasha Gay, 711 00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:47,719 Speaker 1: Trustee Dara Potts and Viney Shory. For more podcasts from 712 00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:52,719 Speaker 1: Kaleidoscope and iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or 713 00:34:52,960 --> 00:35:08,920 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.