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Speaker 1: Welcome into North Side Territory Novel Territory Networks Cubs Podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm Sahadev Sharma with my partner Patrick Mooney. We are

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Speaker 1: your Cubs beat writers over at the Athletic Patrick, we

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Speaker 1: are almost what.

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Speaker 2: Do we like? Fifteen days?

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Speaker 1: Don't do a little more than two weeks? I guess

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Speaker 1: three weeks out from opening day. For in Japan, we

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Speaker 1: are a few weeks into spring training and there is

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Speaker 1: a I mean games have started. The red hot Cubs

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Speaker 1: are undefeated in spring training. It doesn't matter at all.

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Speaker 1: I want to make that clear. The record doesn't matter

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Speaker 1: at all. You know, have fun with it, watch the games,

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Speaker 1: do what you want, but it just doesn't matter. But

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Speaker 1: there are some things that are happening here right like

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Speaker 1: we have a lot of I have no injury updates

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Speaker 1: and and I think the most interesting thing to me

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Speaker 1: is always where is the pitching at? And that's the

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Speaker 1: topic of this this episode, right where do the Cubs

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Speaker 1: stand with their pitching? I think the first thing that

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Speaker 1: that I would touch on is that Javier Asad still

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Speaker 1: hasn't thrown off a mound.

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Speaker 2: He's playing catch. It doesn't seem like it's a setback.

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Speaker 1: Uh, there's nothing that they're concerned about, but it does,

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Speaker 1: you know, being like being.

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Speaker 3: He'll be on the ile then to start the season.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd be very surprised if he's If he's on

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Speaker 1: the roster to start the season, that's not a huge

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Speaker 1: disaster or anything like that, but you know that's kind.

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Speaker 2: Of where they stand with with Javier Asad.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I've been enjoying your coverage on the Athletic, Like

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Speaker 4: we kind of passed the baton there and I think

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Speaker 4: I wrung every last Alex Bregman storyline out of camp

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Speaker 4: and and if I really wrote much of anything at

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Speaker 4: all about pitching, so I you know, I kind of

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Speaker 4: gave you, you know, free reign there and you've done

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Speaker 4: an excellent job. I think one name of release jumped

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Speaker 4: out and that's literally one of those I sent you

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Speaker 4: a couple of quotes. It was like, hey, I couldn't

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Speaker 4: get to this, but it's kind of interesting, like Ben Brown,

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Speaker 4: and you got a lot more a much more kind

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Speaker 4: of detailed description of what actually happened to him right

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Speaker 4: last year. So you explained to our listeners like what

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Speaker 4: happened and where is he at now?

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Speaker 1: So I wasn't one hundred percent sure if that was

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Speaker 1: out there when I was talking to him about it,

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Speaker 1: I don't think it was. Yeah, I learned afterwards that

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Speaker 1: it wasn't. I like did a little Google search to

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Speaker 1: make sure, and I was like, what, like okay, And

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Speaker 1: I checked with other reporters.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, did he tell you guys this?

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Speaker 1: I just want to make sure that, like, you know,

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Speaker 1: otherwise I'll put it later in the story. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: he had osteoma. Osteoma and which is basically bone growing

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Speaker 1: on another bone, usually in your skull, and this was

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Speaker 1: you know, on his neck in the back area. And

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Speaker 1: it's more than anything, it's like a big annoyance. The

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Speaker 1: way he described it was like every single time he'd

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Speaker 1: go out to throw, his neck would kind of lock up.

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Speaker 2: And and yeah.

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Speaker 1: There are different you know, there are different ways to

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Speaker 1: get through this, in the sense that sometimes people can

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Speaker 1: pitch through it or or play through it whatever.

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Speaker 2: They may be doing. For him.

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Speaker 1: It like his doctor told him, you know this, you'll

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Speaker 1: be paying free in two or three months. In all likelihood,

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Speaker 1: this isn't something that will linger. It just kind of

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Speaker 1: goes away. And that's how it works. And I think

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Speaker 1: Brown didn't feel comfortable pitching through it, and you know,

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Speaker 1: young guy trying to get like to kick his career off.

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Speaker 1: No reason why he should be trying to force the issue.

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Speaker 1: And he said he woke up one day like took

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Speaker 1: a sh and was like moving around, was like, huh okay,

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Speaker 1: it's gone, like suddenly, like he was feeling it pretty

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Speaker 1: much every day, and then he wakes up one day

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Speaker 1: in October and it's gone. Said he started throwing again

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Speaker 1: in November, which was, he said, a couple weeks late

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Speaker 1: for him, but he seems fine, like he's out there pitching.

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Speaker 2: He pitched.

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Speaker 1: I kind of have lost track of days, but I

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Speaker 1: want to say Monday he pitched, and and you know,

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Speaker 1: he was good. He ripped off a couple of change ups,

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Speaker 1: which is kind of the next step for him in

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Speaker 1: his mind. The way he described it, I like the

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Speaker 1: way he talked about it right, Like he he came

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Speaker 1: into last spring saying, you know, I'm dumping my sweeper.

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Speaker 1: I'm a two pitch guy, and I and he talked

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Speaker 1: to a bunch of guys in the offseason that had

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Speaker 1: had success as two pitch guys, and he built the

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Speaker 1: confidence that I can succeed as this guy. And then

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Speaker 1: he went out for you know, however many innings. It

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Speaker 1: was not a not a full season, obviously, but a

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Speaker 1: decent amount of innings. Not not enough to get, you know,

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Speaker 1: to feel like super confident that this is who he is,

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Speaker 1: but but enough to feel like, okay, there's something there.

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Speaker 1: And he and he did really well, including that seven

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Speaker 1: innings of no hit ball that we saw before.

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Speaker 2: He not long before he went on the shelf.

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Speaker 1: But he was doing it with two pitches, and he,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think he and the coaching staff were like,

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Speaker 1: you don't need to force this, but let's find a

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Speaker 1: change up grip that works for you. And he's feeling

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Speaker 1: good about the change up, and he ripped off a

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Speaker 1: few good ones. What he said was, I'd like to

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Speaker 1: go out there and and if I don't have it,

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Speaker 1: I know I can get through a lineup with two pitches.

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Speaker 1: But if I have it, great, because maybe one day

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Speaker 1: I don't have the he called curve ball, other people

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Speaker 1: call it a slider, whatever, it's a breaking ball. If

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Speaker 1: I don't have that, then I can go fastball, change up,

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Speaker 1: and if I have all three, great. If I don't

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Speaker 1: have my fastball, I go slider, change up. You know,

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Speaker 1: I liked the mentality. I like the way he's thinking.

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Speaker 1: He's healthy. I think that's the most important thing. And

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Speaker 1: then he has the arsenal that the rotation just doesn't have.

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Speaker 1: And frankly, they don't have much of it in the

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Speaker 1: bullpen outside of a guy like Porter Hodge.

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Speaker 4: But he doesn't need to add new pitches because people

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Speaker 4: just invent terms to make it seem like he has

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Speaker 4: more pitches than he actually does. Like it's the genius

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Speaker 4: of modern pitching. So like, what what is the death ball?

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Speaker 3: Is he throwing the death ball? Like?

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Speaker 1: What the death ball is the same thing. It's the

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Speaker 1: it's the it's the curveball, it's the slider.

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Speaker 2: It's a.

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Speaker 3: I loved it, a curveball, slash slider.

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Speaker 1: So so a slider like right, like we have a

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Speaker 1: like now we have the sweeper, right, which is a slider.

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Speaker 1: And then like a death ball is a gyro slider,

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Speaker 1: which has always existed for as long as I can remember,

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Speaker 1: you know, we it's just a slider that spins, has

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Speaker 1: gyro spin.

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Speaker 2: And it goes straight down right, There's not much there's

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Speaker 2: not much horizontal break. It's more like and you you

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Speaker 2: think of that as a curveball, right, but.

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Speaker 1: It's not like I don't know why like he explained

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Speaker 1: it to me, as he explained it to me, like

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Speaker 1: he thinks curveball when he throws it. Other people in

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Speaker 1: the Cubs organizations say, no, that is a gyro slider,

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Speaker 1: that's a that's a death ball, whatever you want to

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Speaker 1: call it.

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Speaker 2: But it so, this is this is the type.

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Speaker 1: And I got in the someone was asking about asking

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Speaker 1: about it in the comments, like what are all these terms?

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Speaker 2: And why are there's so many different terms for this stuff?

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Speaker 1: And and why is there like a debate like why

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Speaker 1: why does he call it a curveball? Why does why

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Speaker 1: do others call it a slider? This has been going

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Speaker 1: on for as long as I can remember, between like

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Speaker 1: scouts and pitchers and whatever.

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Speaker 2: And then you add data to it, where now we have.

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Speaker 1: You know, game day spitting it out, statcast spitting out

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Speaker 1: and telling us what it is, and a scout saying, no,

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Speaker 1: that's not a curveball, that's this, or no, that's not

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Speaker 1: a change up.

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Speaker 2: It's a splitter, right.

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Speaker 1: Like a like a like lighter loved to get into

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Speaker 1: details about this, right, Actually it's a true force ball.

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Speaker 1: But nobody's gonna call it that, so you know. So

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Speaker 1: it's just like it's a debate as long as I

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Speaker 1: can remember, since I've been covering this, people love to

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Speaker 1: talk about what these things are, and it's just like,

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Speaker 1: I have a buddy that's just like, we just need

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Speaker 1: to go fastball, change up, breaking ball, and that's it

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Speaker 1: and the like and then start talking. And then when

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Speaker 1: you want to like get into it, well, his breaking

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Speaker 1: ball does this and this and this, he's like, that's

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Speaker 1: the railway. We need to talk about it, but we

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Speaker 1: never will because we need names for it. So you

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Speaker 1: writers can can get through the day and not have

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Speaker 1: to write four sentences to describe a pitch, which I

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Speaker 1: agree with, but we need one word now.

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Speaker 3: That would be helpful.

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Speaker 4: I mean we're old enough to remember, you know, a

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Speaker 4: couple of spring trains ago, when you know, everyone was

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Speaker 4: throwing a sweeper. I was like, oh my god, are

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Speaker 4: you working on the sweeper? And then like did we

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Speaker 4: hear about the sweeper during the season? Did the Cubs

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Speaker 4: have some lights out?

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Speaker 5: Bitch?

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Speaker 3: No?

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Speaker 5: No, like people, it's practice, they're working on stuff. But

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Speaker 5: I do I.

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Speaker 3: Do think, you know, I learned a lot from that article.

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Speaker 4: And I do like Ben Brown is the ultimate like

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Speaker 4: passes the eye test guy right, like he's right, he's tall,

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Speaker 4: he's strong, like he has v loo his pitches move

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Speaker 4: like sharply. Uh could be one of those like UJX

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Speaker 4: factors for this team, right like if yes, yeah, right,

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Speaker 4: Like he's got to be with your upper percentile outcomes

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Speaker 4: of this year is like what if Ben Brown's a dude?

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Speaker 2: Right? Right?

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Speaker 1: And and I think Council is like not both Counsel

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Speaker 1: and Brown have it in their head like let's not

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Speaker 1: pigeonhole this guy, like he doesn't have to start, he

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Speaker 1: doesn't have to be a reliever. How about what Council

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Speaker 1: loves to say? How about outgetter? And I and I

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Speaker 1: think Council didn't straight up say that. I think I

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Speaker 1: said it to him, like just how but we just

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Speaker 1: call him an outgeter. He's like yeah, and oh Genie.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah.

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Speaker 1: So I think you know, well, we'll see where Brown

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Speaker 1: fits and how we helps his team. But I think

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Speaker 1: he's going to if he's healthy, whether it's opening day,

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Speaker 1: whether it's July, whether it's you know, two weeks after

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Speaker 1: they return, you know, after they get home from Japan

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Speaker 1: and Arizona and Sacramento at some point, he's going to

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Speaker 1: help this team if he's healthy, and you're right, like

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Speaker 1: he's the type if he's good you're talking about. Okay,

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Speaker 1: now what do we project this team for right now,

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Speaker 1: let's say upper eighties. That's probably the true talent of

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Speaker 1: this team. You add someone like Ben Brown and say

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Speaker 1: he's throwing one hundred and twenty innings of you know,

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Speaker 1: really good baseball. Now you're saying, Okay, this is a

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Speaker 1: different team, and what type of role does he have?

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Speaker 2: Who knows?

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Speaker 1: But but I think he impacts this team in a

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Speaker 1: positive fashion and could raise their ceiling. Patrick, there's more

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Speaker 1: All right, Patrick, this is my favorite stuff for spring training.

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Speaker 1: The guy that nobody knows about before or nobody expects

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Speaker 1: to do anything.

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Speaker 5: And you're just like creeping around Mason looking looking at the.

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Speaker 1: Rocks, you know, uh, fifty the time, the guy doesn't

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Speaker 1: do anything right another.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, Well that's true.

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Speaker 1: And I was I have to say, like I got

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Speaker 1: and I brought this up on another podcast. I got

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Speaker 1: a couple of texts about Brad Keller before anything started right,

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Speaker 1: and people were like, this guy's bullpencer nasty. Who the

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Speaker 1: hell knows what he does in a game, but he

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Speaker 1: looks good. First game, touching ninety seven, Uh, sitting ninety

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Speaker 1: six and has some good breaking stuff. Second game two scoreless,

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Speaker 1: strikes a couple of dudes out, like he's doing the

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Speaker 1: same thing, touching ninety seven, nasty, like the breaking ball

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Speaker 1: of good h And I get more text about like

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Speaker 1: what's going on here? And and I think we're we're

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Speaker 1: not there. We're not there yet, but you know, it's

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Speaker 1: two outings in spring training and I and I think

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Speaker 1: the difference that the thing that I.

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Speaker 2: Look at is what does this stuff look like? Right?

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Speaker 1: You can't always base it on results, right, Like Ben

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Speaker 1: Brown gave up two runs in his in his two

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Speaker 1: innings of work. I'm not I'm not worried about that.

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Speaker 1: How did this stuff look?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 4: Uh?

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Speaker 2: That's I think that's what's standing out with Brad Keller.

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Speaker 1: We're not there yet, but it's something that I think

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Speaker 1: is worth talking about.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I mean he he pitched for that h awful White

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Speaker 4: Sox team last year, right, I mean like that's like

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Speaker 4: a classic Cubs move of like taking him out of

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Speaker 4: one of the.

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Speaker 3: Most backward organizations.

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Speaker 4: In baseball and kind of giving him a new new

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Speaker 4: lease on on his baseball life. And I was laughing

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Speaker 4: as we were kind of exchanging slack messages, and I know,

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Speaker 4: like when you pick a name like that, you don't

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Speaker 4: just like pull it out of a hat, like there's

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Speaker 4: like information behind it. But it was, as our buddy

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Speaker 4: Jesse Rodgers would say, like a classics n rate story there.

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Speaker 4: But you know, that's how this bullpen pitching staff is

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Speaker 4: kind of built, right of like if they can capture

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Speaker 4: some guys with upsides, if they can keep churning it,

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Speaker 4: if Counsel pushes the right buttons, Like you know, Counsel

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Speaker 4: themselves said it last year, and probably every manager in

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Speaker 4: his year or spring training says it, like there's someone

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Speaker 4: out here now that no one's talking about who's going

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Speaker 4: to impact our team this year, and you just beat

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Speaker 4: him to that.

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Speaker 3: This year.

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Speaker 4: You're just like basically like picked up the rental car

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Speaker 4: sky Harbor and it's just like I am on a

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Speaker 4: Brad Keller mission.

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Speaker 2: And I don't know that.

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Speaker 5: I mean, if we had it's opening day was tomorrow,

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Speaker 5: he's on the team.

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Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, Yeah, I think that's right.

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Speaker 1: I think he looks good enough that it's the type

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Speaker 1: of thing where another team's going to pick him up,

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Speaker 1: like he can't he if he doesn't make the team,

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Speaker 1: he's opting out and another team will will put him

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Speaker 1: on their roster. He needs to keep doing it. He

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Speaker 1: needs to continue to show that the stuff holds up,

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Speaker 1: needs to stay healthy, all that stuff. But when I

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Speaker 1: ask counsel about him, he didn't deny it. It's not

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Speaker 1: like he straight up said. I asked him. I'm like

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Speaker 1: a what, like, what do you think about him? And

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Speaker 1: be like when you see that in a short burst,

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Speaker 1: do you start saying, Okay, we're he's a reliever.

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Speaker 2: And he's like, you're asking the right questions.

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Speaker 1: Right, you see that? He's like, yes, I there was

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Speaker 1: a thought in my head, like wait a second, what

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Speaker 1: is this guy doing in this? You know, in this

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Speaker 1: short burst? Can he impact our team as a reliever?

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Speaker 1: But he also said like they picked him out because

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Speaker 1: when he was younger, And he says this, he's like

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Speaker 1: when when guys are younger and they have and they

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Speaker 1: show something thing, you can't forget about it just because

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Speaker 1: they go through rough patches, injuries, whatever. It may be

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Speaker 1: you cannot forget that this guy has something. This guy

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Speaker 1: has gotten out. This guy has done it before in

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Speaker 1: his it like the start of his career, three hundred

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Speaker 1: and sixty and one third innings to start his career

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Speaker 1: three point fifty era, you know, fifty seven starts, seventy

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Speaker 1: eight games total, Like that's you know that that's solid.

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Speaker 1: That's his solid pitcher. And now he looks like this

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Speaker 1: stuff is maybe a little bit better.

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Speaker 2: There. They saw some things.

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Speaker 1: They're they're cleaner delivery, He's gotten a little bit more velocity.

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Speaker 1: He's feeling good, the body feels good. It's just the

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Speaker 1: type of thing that you have to you can't ignore it.

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Speaker 1: They're they're going to stretch him out. They're going to

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Speaker 1: see what he can do. And and Council made a

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Speaker 1: point of saying, like we sought this guy out because

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Speaker 1: we think there's the starter there. And like you know,

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Speaker 1: when when we've been talking about fifth starter, we haven't

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Speaker 1: mentioned him.

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna hold off on mentioning him just yet.

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Speaker 1: Like I wrote, like when I wrote about Ben Brown,

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Speaker 1: I specifically did not put Ben brad Keller in that

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Speaker 1: list of fifth starters just yet. But a couple more

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Speaker 1: huntings and I'm gonna and I may have to, like

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Speaker 1: he may be in that discussion.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, no, I mean it'll be fascinating to see kind

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Speaker 4: of where this leads and how they put this together.

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Speaker 3: I mean, if if I'm following correctly, we're saying.

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Speaker 4: If opening day was you know, tomorrow, this week, Keller's

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Speaker 4: in Asad's on the injured list. Another guy who wrote

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Speaker 4: about Kate Horton is an amazing prospect, but not quite

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Speaker 4: ready yet. Are there any other guys on the bubble

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Speaker 4: or kind of ideas, you know, percolating that have drawn

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Speaker 4: your attention in Mesa in terms of the what will

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Speaker 4: be thirteen guys active in Ja?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: You know, like, well there there's some interesting rules going

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Speaker 1: on with Japan.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess that's a different.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Like you can bring thirty one guys there and

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Speaker 1: you don't have to like Nico doesn't need.

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Speaker 2: To go on the IL.

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Speaker 1: He can be brought to Japan and he's one of

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Speaker 1: those thirty one guys and then you save an IL

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Speaker 1: stint for him. You don't have to send him down

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Speaker 1: obviously he's not he can't be sent down.

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Speaker 2: But you know what I mean, Like you don't have

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Speaker 2: to make a move. I thought that was interesting.

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Speaker 1: We learned some of these like smaller rules that I like,

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Speaker 1: I didn't really fully understand, Like they can hold off

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Speaker 1: on some of these decisions until Arizona when they open

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Speaker 1: the US portion of the season. There's some I need

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Speaker 1: to clarify some of this stuff and and really make

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Speaker 1: sure we nail it. Because we were talking to council

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Speaker 1: today and he was explaining some things to us. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they're like I I'll say that I was impressed with

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Speaker 1: the Jamison Tyan going out there and sitting ninety two

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Speaker 1: today that today is Tuesday for those listening to this podcast,

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Speaker 1: probably on a Wednesday. That's good. He was at like

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Speaker 1: he sat ninety two most of last season, and he

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Speaker 1: you know, first outing at ninety two. That's a good

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Speaker 1: that's a good sign. Okay, Like you want him you

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Speaker 1: want him to be sitting ninety three and a half

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Speaker 1: probably right, if not a little bit more. I think

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Speaker 1: when when I talked to him, his goal was like, look,

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Speaker 1: if I sit ninety two, that's fine. He's like, what

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Speaker 1: I want is to have like a little extra in

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Speaker 1: the tank. So if I go back and reach back

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Speaker 1: for it, I can hit ninety five and say, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I got it. I can go do that. If I

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Speaker 1: sit ninety two, I'll survive. He's like I've seen that.

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Speaker 1: It's more about like I want to have it. I

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Speaker 1: want to be able to reach back and have it

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Speaker 1: when like I just want to empty the tank for

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Speaker 1: the day, I can go back and get it. But

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Speaker 1: I think that's a good sign. We'll see if he's

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Speaker 1: a taking a half up. I think that's important. You know,

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Speaker 1: Justin Steele looked like he's ready for the season. I

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Speaker 1: think that's easy enough. Like you know, he's just become

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Speaker 1: like the trustworthy guy. You know what you're going to get.

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Speaker 1: I think that's huge to have guys like that. Kate Horton,

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Speaker 1: I think it was important that he was sitting ninety

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Speaker 1: five ninety seven because that was a big question last year.

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Speaker 1: Is this guy in ninety two to ninety five guy

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Speaker 1: that changes the ceiling. Well, his delivery was really stiff

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Speaker 1: and something happened where he just wasn't getting into his

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Speaker 1: legs as much. Now he's being a little bit more athletic,

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Speaker 1: and that's the focus. The focus isn't for him to

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Speaker 1: develop some new pitch or make the team out of camp.

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Speaker 1: He's not making the team out of camp. They wanted

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Speaker 1: to go out there and have innings. He get innings

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Speaker 1: and be healthy and make all his starts and you know,

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Speaker 1: reclaim that top prospect status that he had entering last season.

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Speaker 1: They're not worried about top prospect status. I'm adding that

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Speaker 1: little bit, but you know what I mean, like it

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Speaker 1: just be an impressive pitcher that maybe forces the issue

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Speaker 1: at some point summer.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I thought it was very refreshing to hear this

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Speaker 4: idea of like, just let your natural athleticism take over.

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Speaker 4: I mean, this is the guy who's had the opportunity

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Speaker 4: to play football at the University of Oklahoma. He was

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Speaker 4: drafted what was at number seven overall. He was the

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Speaker 4: highest acted pitcher by the cub since Mark Pryor if

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Speaker 4: I remember correctly. The point is like, you don't draft

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Speaker 4: a guy that high and then say, oh, these are

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Speaker 4: all the things that we don't.

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Speaker 3: Like about him and want to change about like right.

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Speaker 4: Oh, pitch, And now I think it's fair to say

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Speaker 4: like he kind of got hot at the exact right

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Speaker 4: time and flew up the draft boards.

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Speaker 3: And I do think there are major questions about.

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Speaker 4: His ability to like log innings and handle the workload

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Speaker 4: over and over and over. But like this kind of

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Speaker 4: like tinkering with him in the pitch lab, Like no,

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Speaker 4: just let this dude.

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Speaker 3: Be unleashed and like see what happens, because.

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Speaker 4: Ultimately that that's going to be the separated for him.

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Speaker 4: Like if he's going to be a great major league pitcher,

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Speaker 4: it's going to be because of kind of what what

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Speaker 4: he has, not like what they're seeing in their data.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think this is going to be an interesting

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Speaker 1: season as far as pitching goes.

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Speaker 2: In general.

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Speaker 1: I'm very curious to see the young guys come up.

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Speaker 1: I'm very interesting to see what kind of developments they

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Speaker 1: have because we're we're at that point now where we've

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Speaker 1: been talking about it for a while. Guys have started

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00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:30,479
Speaker 1: to trickle up, right, Porter Hodges there, Justin Steele has

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Speaker 1: made rail rail leaps over the past few years. There

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Speaker 1: are others, but but I think, you know, we want

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Speaker 1: to see it continue, right to really buy in that

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Speaker 1: what all the changes that they've made and the additions

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Speaker 1: that they made to the front office are impacting this

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Speaker 1: their young talent, and it'll be a fascinating year.

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Speaker 2: It's It's a big year in so many different ways.

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Speaker 1: All right, Patrick, We'll be back later this week with

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Speaker 1: a mail bag episode. Thanks so much to everyone for listening.

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00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:00,399
Speaker 1: Make sure to rate, review, subscribe, subscribe to the YouTube

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00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:03,639
Speaker 1: channel subscribed to the Athletic, where Patrick and I will

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00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:05,800
Speaker 1: be on top of all things cubs for the rest

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Speaker 1: of the spring Opening Day in Japan and opening Day

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00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:12,200
Speaker 1: out in Arizona the US portion of the season. Thanks

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00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:12,879
Speaker 1: so much for listening.

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Speaker 2: Everyone,