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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on

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Speaker 1: iHeart Radio, and we are back with Natalie Zette, writer, actor, photographer, musician,

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Speaker 1: and the author of now Let's get this right, Flower

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Speaker 1: in the River, a family Tale finally told the website

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Speaker 1: Flower in the River dot com. And I was just

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Speaker 1: on the website looking at the photographs of your great

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Speaker 1: aunt Martha, who was one of eight hundred and forty

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Speaker 1: four souls lost aboard the Eastman, this river steamer. I

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Speaker 1: guess that was that turned over dock side on the

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Speaker 1: Chicago River and just nineteen years old, a beautiful young lady.

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Speaker 1: And also you've got the death certificate there, which is

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Speaker 1: rubber stamped cause of death, drowned. Just kind of reinforces,

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Speaker 1: you know, the extent of this tragedy, that there were

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Speaker 1: so many lives lost they actually resorted to rubber stamping

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Speaker 1: the cause of death. So, Natalie, you when you travel

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Speaker 1: to Chicago to try and uh, you know, find out

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Speaker 1: about the Eastman, the Eastland tragedy, and about your your

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Speaker 1: great aunt Martha, what what happened? That's that's the point, Richard,

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Speaker 1: where things switched from a research project, Like if you

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Speaker 1: have the research project that I did for the newspaper

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Speaker 1: to something different and um so as mentioned the trip

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Speaker 1: from the Twin Cities, Jeffrey drives to Chicago's about six

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Speaker 1: seven hours, and I didn't really feel like I wanted

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Speaker 1: to go down there. And for my thirty first trip

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Speaker 1: to Chicago for this research journey was to look at

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Speaker 1: the cemetery to find the grave, and so I stayed

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Speaker 1: in a hotel halfway um it was a halfway mark

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Speaker 1: and I wanted to do some more writing. And while

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Speaker 1: I was in this hotel and Lacrosse, Wisconsin, things started happening.

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Speaker 1: In the hotel. I began feeling uneasy. I began feeling

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Speaker 1: like I wasn't alone and I was alone, and I

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Speaker 1: just began to sense a presence. And again it was

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Speaker 1: after my dad had died. I really was in that state,

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Speaker 1: at deep grief state at that point. So I thought,

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Speaker 1: maybe this is what this is. But I thought, I

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Speaker 1: don't think I'm imagining this. I think I'm with somebody here,

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Speaker 1: and I thought this is weird. And as the night

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Speaker 1: went on, I was getting ready to get to sleep

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Speaker 1: because I thought I had to get up early and

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Speaker 1: I wanted to hit the cemetery early there was this

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Speaker 1: humming or buzz in the hotel, and I kept getting

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Speaker 1: louder and louder and louder, and it didn't sound electrical,

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Speaker 1: and it was just one of those things where it

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Speaker 1: was pervasive. It was inside me, outside of me. I

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Speaker 1: was frightened, but not scared in the way that you're

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Speaker 1: scared for your life. But I thought, what is this?

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Speaker 1: And then and I turned out the light. I thought, oh,

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Speaker 1: just close your eyes, maybe I'll all go away. When

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Speaker 1: I opened my eyes just to look what was happening

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Speaker 1: in the dark, it was like shapes were happening, and

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Speaker 1: I thought, oh, my gosh. I thought, either I'm really

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Speaker 1: losing it here or something is really going on. But

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Speaker 1: I thought, no, just go to sleep. And the next

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Speaker 1: day it was like it was all over. I was

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Speaker 1: really tired, and I headed to the cemetery. Then I

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Speaker 1: realized when I got to the cemetery. That cemetery where

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Speaker 1: my great aunt Martha's buried. It's called Bethania Cemetery in Justice.

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Speaker 1: It's next to everyone's grave with paranormal place in Chicago

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Speaker 1: Resurrection Cemetery. It's huge. People know a resurrection, they usually

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Speaker 1: don't know Bathaniel and I didn't know where her grave was,

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Speaker 1: and I parked the car and it was Labor Day weekend,

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Speaker 1: and I thought she and I felt like a fool

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Speaker 1: coming down all that way and that kind of crescendo

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Speaker 1: high that I had in the hotel room, it's like,

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Speaker 1: oh my biama into something. It just crashed. And then

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Speaker 1: there's a way I think where when he had these

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Speaker 1: we started to have these supernatural paranormal experiences. We immediately

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Speaker 1: gaslight ourselves that can happen this whatever, and it's like yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: So I was kind of like, you know, beating myself up,

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Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden, I just thought, that's

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Speaker 1: just we're going to find this grave. And I was

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Speaker 1: looking for forty five minutes, couldn't see it. I asked

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Speaker 1: the caretaker if he might have known where this was.

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Speaker 1: He and know. I went walking back to the car

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Speaker 1: and I tripped and the I didn't fall, but I

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Speaker 1: was kind of questioned a direction back to my car,

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Speaker 1: but I didn't realize and I didn't see it the

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Speaker 1: first time. Is I parked nearly in front of the headstone.

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Speaker 1: Oh dear lord. Yeah, now that one. That one was

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Speaker 1: one of those where I was already tired, insane. By

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Speaker 1: that point, it was really hot. It was like lace

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Speaker 1: early September rather than it was hot. And I thought,

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Speaker 1: oh my gosh. And the headstone, her headstone on the

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Speaker 1: one side is her name, and it's in German. On

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Speaker 1: the eastland it says in English rest in peace, Martha

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Speaker 1: Feiffer eighteen ninety five to nineteen fifteen. And then beneath

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Speaker 1: that it is her baby sister, who died nineteen oh

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Speaker 1: five of what was called black diphtheria. On the other

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Speaker 1: side of my great great grandparents, my great grandparents started graves.

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Speaker 1: I get all those great screwed up sometimes, but so

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Speaker 1: her parents are on the other side. I didn't even

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Speaker 1: know they were there. And so when I stood in

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Speaker 1: front of it, I my niece kind of buckled. Not

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Speaker 1: I didn't collapse claps in a sort of dr addict,

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Speaker 1: you know, type of you throw yourself on the couch,

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Speaker 1: but I did collapse, and it was like, oh my gosh.

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Speaker 1: And it was that point I came apart and I thought,

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Speaker 1: what is this? And then when I closed my eyes,

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Speaker 1: it was as if I was almost transported into a

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Speaker 1: living room where they all were. Even though I've only

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Speaker 1: seen photos and I really it sounds like it should

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Speaker 1: be comforting. It was really disturbing, and I thought, am

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Speaker 1: I And it was the loss of control. So if

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Speaker 1: you've ever had that happened, it's it's kind of one

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Speaker 1: of those things where you kind of have to go

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Speaker 1: with it. I thought, I don't know what this is,

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Speaker 1: but for once, I'm not going to shut it down.

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Speaker 1: So I just started writing immediately, and I wasn't thinking

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Speaker 1: of a book. I was just thinking, I've got to

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Speaker 1: write this stuff down because I will go back to

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Speaker 1: Saint Paul and write that article and talk myself out

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Speaker 1: of this. I thought, no, this happened, okay, So tell

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Speaker 1: when you were transported into it? Was it the house

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Speaker 1: that you grew up in or where were you transported?

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Speaker 1: You think I'd never been inside the house. I mean

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Speaker 1: i've been outside that house. That's another story altogether. I've

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Speaker 1: been outside that house, but I've never been inside of it.

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Speaker 1: But I could see it. I could literally see the

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Speaker 1: like one of those old freight oriental rugs and just

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Speaker 1: sort of this old furniture that I I mean, I've

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Speaker 1: never seen photos or anything, but I could just see it.

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Speaker 1: I could smell the musty air. And everything else, and

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Speaker 1: it was so it was like a nanosecond. It didn't

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Speaker 1: last very long, but it's like, oh my gosh. So

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Speaker 1: I thought I didn't think of the language, the language

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Speaker 1: that we used to describe these kinds of things. You

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Speaker 1: opened a portal, but I thought I certainly opened a door,

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Speaker 1: and I thought, maybe this is still going on somewhere,

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Speaker 1: and I'm certainly on sacred ground, because not just Chea

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Speaker 1: and my great grandparents are there, but other relatives are

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Speaker 1: scattered throughout that cemetery. And I thought, I'm on holy

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Speaker 1: ground here, and I'm not really even though I had

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Speaker 1: that theology degree. You don't take that too seriously. I'm

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Speaker 1: really not religious religious because I looked at the stuff

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Speaker 1: and I studied it, and it was one of those

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Speaker 1: things where I, oh my gosh, this truly was. It

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Speaker 1: was breast taking. It was was onspiring, and it was

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Speaker 1: kind of an interesting not like the how you described

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Speaker 1: the bobble baby a bear cub. I can't stop thinking

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Speaker 1: about that little over animal. But but it wasn't like that.

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Speaker 1: It was kind of like, oh my gosh, I was

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Speaker 1: lifted up out of myself, ordinary ceased to exist and

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Speaker 1: tightened to wear and continue, Yes, well, I'm on the

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Speaker 1: website again and I'm looking at a photograph of the

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Speaker 1: fighter home I guess on West twenty third Street in Chicago.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if that does that how still exist? Yes,

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Speaker 1: it does. It's as far as I know, it's still there.

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Speaker 1: And that was the one. On a later trip, I

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Speaker 1: went with a friend of mine who was who's a

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Speaker 1: native Chicago one. That's it. I'm sorry, that's another story.

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Speaker 1: I'll turn off that thing there. Um that so so,

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Speaker 1: this woman i'd known for years. We went to college

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Speaker 1: together and I'd known her for years, and she offered

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Speaker 1: to take me around, Um, take me around and just too,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, away from the noise here. She offered to

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Speaker 1: take me to Chicago. We went to the house and

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Speaker 1: we were taking photo she was taking photographs. I was

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Speaker 1: just looking at it and whatever, and she's very much

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Speaker 1: a skeptical person, like very die hard whatever. I got

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Speaker 1: in the car after she did the photos and we

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Speaker 1: were talking and I didn't tell her when I was

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Speaker 1: standing there that I was feeling like fingertips caressing my arms,

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Speaker 1: and once again I thought, just don't talk about this,

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Speaker 1: and she looked at me. She glared at me, and

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Speaker 1: she said, what was that? And I said what she said?

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Speaker 1: It was like someone was touching me. And I said,

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Speaker 1: I can't account my relatives. I said, I don't know

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Speaker 1: what they do. You've felt it too, And she even

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Speaker 1: called me a couple of weeks ago and she said,

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Speaker 1: you know, she said, you remember that. I said, how

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Speaker 1: could I forget that? It's in the book. And that

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Speaker 1: was the other strange thing our relationship. This woman who

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Speaker 1: was a native Chicago when her dad was a Chicago cop.

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Speaker 1: She too did a DNA test and we are second cousins,

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Speaker 1: and I had known her all my life. So there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of weird things, intersections, coincidences that have happened

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Speaker 1: ever since I started messing with this book. It's like

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Speaker 1: a book of shadows. It's like, now, what, so are

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Speaker 1: you thinking then that it was it was your great

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Speaker 1: aunt Martha, maybe leading you, nudging you in the right direction,

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Speaker 1: and so forth. Yeah, I do. I experienced it. I

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Speaker 1: can't say I believe it, but I experienced something that

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Speaker 1: surely looked like it. And I stopped fighting it a

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Speaker 1: long time ago. And I have to say that the

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Speaker 1: more I relaxed into it and just said let's just

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Speaker 1: pretend this is the case or and then just see

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Speaker 1: what happens. The more I stopped censoring myself, the more

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Speaker 1: I stopped gaslighting myself. That's when the frequency of the

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Speaker 1: coincidences started kicking in. And I was paying attention I could.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I was going really fast, I was writing,

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Speaker 1: doing all these things, but I was also slowing down

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Speaker 1: and I thought, what does this actually mean? And all

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Speaker 1: the things that we take granted in life, I was

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Speaker 1: stepping away from and saying, is this really true? Could

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Speaker 1: this be happening? And I thought, why not? All the

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Speaker 1: things that we're in culture to believe about life after

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Speaker 1: death or visitations, and they come from odd places. Either

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Speaker 1: people are so you know, dug in and believe these

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Speaker 1: things without experiencing them, that they make a dogma out

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Speaker 1: of that, or they're so on the other side, the

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Speaker 1: skeptic side, that it's just like that could never be,

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Speaker 1: and it's like you want to bet of course they can't.

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Speaker 1: But but what's interesting about this, Richard, is that she

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Speaker 1: came to me, and I was not a believer, and

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Speaker 1: but as I paid attention to her, she seemed to

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Speaker 1: return the favor. And the more attention I paid. I thought,

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Speaker 1: I'll write this article about you because I feel really

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Speaker 1: guilty that you know you're dad, I'm alive. I said,

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Speaker 1: I gotta do something for you. And it was almost

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Speaker 1: like there was this red partee or something going back

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Speaker 1: and forth where and I never have heard an odd

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Speaker 1: audible voice. I don't of her or anybody else, I

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Speaker 1: don't think, but I certain would feel a leading to

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Speaker 1: go to this place or look at this book or whatever,

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Speaker 1: and there would be a message or a song something

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Speaker 1: that's I mean, oh, I love I love the interconnection

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Speaker 1: between music and you know, synchronicity. To give me an

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Speaker 1: example where there was maybe Martha nudged you in the

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Speaker 1: direction of a song or something that helped tell the story.

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Speaker 1: Oh sure, I was. I mean, last I couldn't put

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Speaker 1: it in the book because of all the copyright stuff.

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Speaker 1: You can't really put the lyrics of a song. But

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Speaker 1: I was upset about the Titanic goofy. I got over since.

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Speaker 1: But when it came out again right when I was

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Speaker 1: researching this, it's like here we go again, you know,

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Speaker 1: once again. And I was like, you know, kind of

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Speaker 1: kis see about it. And then but Selene, in other words, sorry,

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Speaker 1: in other words, the Titanic overshadowing the Eastland disaster. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and again and then that CD and it's like anytime

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Speaker 1: I turned the radio on, there she was singing that song.

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Speaker 1: It's like just there to taunt me. And but there

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Speaker 1: was something. There was another song from that album, and

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Speaker 1: I think newer versions don't have it. It's called to

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Speaker 1: Love of You More and it starts off, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm Eastern European, so the violins, and it's just very moody,

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Speaker 1: and but the phrases believe in me, and I will

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Speaker 1: let you see all these things you your heart needs

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Speaker 1: to know. It kept going over and over and over,

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Speaker 1: believe in me, believe in me. And I thought, I'm

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Speaker 1: not much of a believer, but I'm going to take

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Speaker 1: a chance here. And sometimes it's almost too emotional for

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Speaker 1: me to play it all the time. And I do

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Speaker 1: have to say this too, This happened. She was a

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Speaker 1: real person and everything you know associated with it, even

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Speaker 1: though I wasn't there every time I go in. And

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Speaker 1: you know, I wrote the book as my mother was dying,

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Speaker 1: when I was putting the finishing touches on it, and

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Speaker 1: I got it out late December because I rushed it.

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Speaker 1: Actually I didn't even finish my last edit, so there's

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Speaker 1: some periods missing in the book. Sorry guys, but but

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Speaker 1: I had to get it out there because my mother

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Speaker 1: had to hold it before she departed this life, because

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Speaker 1: it was her history and I had to get that

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Speaker 1: back to her. But that was part of all this

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Speaker 1: this emotion that was going on with this thing. But

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Speaker 1: so I think that my other measure the music. For sure,

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Speaker 1: there's so many songs. I always have a soundtrack to

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Speaker 1: any kind of writing project, but there's also what has

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Speaker 1: this experience done to me? And it rattled me to

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Speaker 1: my core, but it also brought forth, I think, a

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Speaker 1: better version of me, a more empastic version, a more

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Speaker 1: open version, and more understanding version, and one that is

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Speaker 1: I think it's it's easier for me to be and

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Speaker 1: people come to me and tell me these they're horrible stories,

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Speaker 1: not because they know about the Eastland, but because there's

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Speaker 1: an openness that I have. It's like, yeah, I'll walk

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Speaker 1: with you. I don't have any answers, I really don't,

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Speaker 1: but I will listen to you the way I listen

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Speaker 1: to my great aunt. And I feel that when I

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Speaker 1: look at that book It's like some of the sections

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Speaker 1: are like, my god, I'm not that smart. I'm really

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Speaker 1: not anything. But there are parts where these insights came

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Speaker 1: forth because I was willing to be there but also

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Speaker 1: get out of the way. There's a paradox in other words,

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Speaker 1: what Martha perhaps. I know you don't like use the

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Speaker 1: term channeling, but do you think Martha was communicating some

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Speaker 1: of those passages in the book. I think so, because

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Speaker 1: I think, you know, for the first part, the book

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Speaker 1: is all about eighteen hundreds to you know, like early

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Speaker 1: nineteen fifties. I mean, I wasn't really around or most

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Speaker 1: of that time, and I thought I had to Really

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Speaker 1: I didn't. I'm not quite sure how I came up

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Speaker 1: with that, but part of it was listening to my

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Speaker 1: mother's sister's stories about what she remembered. She didn't know Martha.

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Speaker 1: Martha was dead by the time she was born, but

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Speaker 1: she heard stories. And then, as writers do, we start

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Speaker 1: to put things together and then they come together and

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Speaker 1: we break them apart and they come together. But I

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Speaker 1: think she helped me. I've never written anything quite like

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Speaker 1: this that almost seemed like it wasn't that it was effortless.

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Speaker 1: It was very painful to put this thing together. And

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Speaker 1: I had to say every time I look at that

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Speaker 1: book and been out and I'm reading the book out

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Speaker 1: lot as I do the audio, it is a traumatic

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Speaker 1: event for me as well to be experienced that, And

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Speaker 1: sometimes I'll just burst into tears and I have to

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Speaker 1: stop recording because it's like the gravity of it hit me.

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Speaker 1: What it did to this family, what it did to

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Speaker 1: my family, what all families, those who went through nine

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Speaker 1: to eleven, those who've gone through the recent tragedies, but

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Speaker 1: we've all gone through and how we survive anyway, And

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Speaker 1: so there's all these things that happened simultaneously. But is

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Speaker 1: she leading? Oh yeah. Absolutely. Listen to more Coast to

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Speaker 1: Coast AM every weeknight at one am Eastern and go

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Speaker 1: to Coast to Coast am dot com for more