1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:06,080 Speaker 1: Fellow Ridiculous Historians. This week's classic episode is incredibly special 2 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:13,200 Speaker 1: to us. Back in twenty nineteen or thereabouts, our good 3 00:00:13,240 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 1: good friend of the show, a brother in arms to 4 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:19,639 Speaker 1: all of us, a guy named Alex Williams co created 5 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:23,520 Speaker 1: with his own brother, our super producer, Max Williams, a 6 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:24,560 Speaker 1: show called. 7 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 2: Ephemera Indeed, And on this episode, we talked to Alex, 8 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:35,520 Speaker 2: the creator of Ephemeral, on the nature of his podcast, 9 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:38,920 Speaker 2: which is out there for you to enjoy, as well 10 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:43,920 Speaker 2: as a story about the Collier Brothers. 11 00:00:45,960 --> 00:01:14,119 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome to the show, 12 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:18,120 Speaker 1: Ridiculous Historians, Thanks so much for tuning in. Peak Behind 13 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:22,280 Speaker 1: the Curtain, it is officially summer in Atlanta. The humidity 14 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:25,959 Speaker 1: and the heat combined to drape the city in soup. 15 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:29,319 Speaker 1: It feels like walking through soup. So I am very, 16 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 1: very glad to be here inside our air conditioned studio. 17 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:34,959 Speaker 1: My name is Ben, my name is Noah. 18 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 2: The shipping container is icy cool today, and outside it 19 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:41,479 Speaker 2: is sort of there's this miasma, this sort of funk, 20 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:45,720 Speaker 2: this patina of awful hot, sweaty grossness that does kind 21 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 2: of envelop the city and it happened overnight, didn't it. 22 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 1: It just happened overnight. Yeah, it permeated, It permeated this 23 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 1: fair metropolis of ours. I always forget about how dire 24 00:01:56,480 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 1: this situation becomes when we hit summer in Atlanta, and 25 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 1: you know this may mean that we're in here recording 26 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:07,240 Speaker 1: more episodes. We do want to start the show with 27 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:11,639 Speaker 1: a big shout out to our guest super producer Ramsey 28 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:15,240 Speaker 1: ram jams Yunt, So everybody give him a fine hello. 29 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:16,959 Speaker 2: Do we get does he get a sound effect. 30 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:19,600 Speaker 1: That sounded good? 31 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 3: Yeah? 32 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 1: It was very good. Good. I like it. And of 33 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 1: course this does not mean that we will ever forget 34 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:36,800 Speaker 1: our wonderful our third amigo, right, super producer Casey Pegram. 35 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 2: Gone, but not forgotten, gone, I say, but gone where Ben? 36 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:41,079 Speaker 1: We were talking about this? So I have a theory. 37 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:47,360 Speaker 1: Every year or so, Casey disappears and in France, someone 38 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:50,560 Speaker 1: else reappears, a very different person who happens to look 39 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:53,680 Speaker 1: a little bit like our dear friend Casey Pegram. This guy, 40 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 1: we imagine, is a member of the criminal underbelly of Paris, 41 00:02:57,919 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 1: known only by the name. 42 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:03,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, and he dons a completely different get up in 43 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 2: the form of a very slick looking leather jacket, a 44 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 2: single dangly cross earring on his left on his left ear, 45 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 2: and sometimes he wears fingerless gloves and rides around one 46 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 2: of those cool little mod motorbikes in the pictures. 47 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 1: Yet, and we strongly suspect that he may have one 48 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 1: or more secret families. It's true. 49 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:25,400 Speaker 3: None of this. 50 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:27,600 Speaker 2: We can neither confirm nor deny any of this. We 51 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 2: are wildly speculated. 52 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:31,400 Speaker 1: It's all true, though. Put the pieces together, people. 53 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:33,400 Speaker 2: All right, we're gonna have to let Casey have his 54 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 2: day in court here and defend himself. But you know, 55 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 2: Casey's not here. We're joined with Ramsey helping us to 56 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 2: pick up the slack. Here. Casey's doing his double life. 57 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 2: But that's not the only person that we have on 58 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 2: the show today, is it. 59 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 4: Man. 60 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:48,840 Speaker 1: That's absolutely true. This is a special episode that I 61 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 1: know we were both very excited about. We have in 62 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 1: our network a brand new podcast that we're we're all 63 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:01,440 Speaker 1: huge fans of, since you really huge fans of, and 64 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 1: it happens to be created by one of our close 65 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 1: friends who you may have heard mentioned on our show 66 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 1: or other shows before. Folks, Let's give it up for 67 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 1: Alex Williams, the brains behind the podcast. We call a 68 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 1: femeral because that's the name of the podcast. 69 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:23,360 Speaker 2: Hi Alex makes us call it then, just by virtue 70 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:25,160 Speaker 2: of having titled it and being a very good title 71 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 2: and a very fine podcast. 72 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 1: Thank you for being here. 73 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:30,040 Speaker 3: What a flattering introduction. I'm very happy to be here. 74 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 2: Well, here's the thing. We've been working with you for 75 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:35,040 Speaker 2: quite some time now. We've kind of seen you grow 76 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:38,160 Speaker 2: and develop and become more and more of a badass 77 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:40,880 Speaker 2: in what the pros referred to as the podcast space 78 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:45,159 Speaker 2: and making wild gesticulating quote fingers when I say that. 79 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:47,000 Speaker 1: You really have to. But here's the thing. 80 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 2: You really took another level in terms of making not 81 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:53,200 Speaker 2: only a history podcast, but something that I've referred to 82 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:55,919 Speaker 2: when I describe it to friends as something akin to 83 00:04:56,080 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 2: like poetry meets sound, collage meets some music, concrete meets history, 84 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 2: And I think it's just a really beautiful piece of work. 85 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 2: And I'm just beyond stoke that it's on our network 86 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 2: and that you're the guy behind him. 87 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 1: So we'd like to ask you. 88 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:12,360 Speaker 3: That was such a good pitch. I don't know if 89 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 3: I could pull that up, but that was great. 90 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 1: He's good. Well, now it is your turn, so we'd 91 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:18,280 Speaker 1: like to ask you some questions about ephemeral, about your 92 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:23,799 Speaker 1: your inspiration behind it. But first, yeah, with that excellent 93 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:28,039 Speaker 1: description that Noel just just recited, what how would you 94 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:31,599 Speaker 1: describe it? How do you describe it when when someone's like, hey, 95 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 1: what's this thing you're working on? 96 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:36,880 Speaker 3: I start stammering and sweating, and I try to make 97 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 3: it as concise as possible as thinking of a quick 98 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:45,159 Speaker 3: pitch in bed the other night. It's something like a 99 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 3: show about fleeting moments and the things they leave behind. 100 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:51,240 Speaker 1: M I like that because that's what epemera is, right. 101 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:55,040 Speaker 2: Epemera is sort of a remnant of a thing that 102 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:57,839 Speaker 2: no longer is around, I guess kind of or the 103 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 2: idea of things being ephemeral means that they're fleeting or 104 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:02,839 Speaker 2: that they're here today, gone tomorrow, but they do leave 105 00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:04,920 Speaker 2: behind some kind of residue if you know where to look. 106 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 1: Right. 107 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:10,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, So the word itself is kind of tricky. In 108 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:15,040 Speaker 3: the textbook, epemera might just mean paper. 109 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 1: Right, broadsides, tickets, pamphlets for museums. 110 00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:25,200 Speaker 3: Basically anything printed, hand printed, you know, printing press, computer printed. 111 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:28,880 Speaker 3: That wasn't meant to be saved. But then it gets 112 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:30,600 Speaker 3: into the issue of like, how do you determine whether 113 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 3: something was meant to be saved or not? 114 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:37,160 Speaker 1: Right, Like, for instance, a train schedule from the early 115 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:41,160 Speaker 1: nineteen hundreds. Now, the ones that are around are considered 116 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:44,560 Speaker 1: thing to be things that of historical value, right, But 117 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 1: when they were printed, they were thought to have a 118 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:51,920 Speaker 1: definitive and very short lifespan or span of utility. 119 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 3: One of the really classic examples is the stamp. The 120 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:57,919 Speaker 3: episode I'm working on that will come up. Mondays about this, 121 00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:00,480 Speaker 3: well Monday, that might that might not be the Monday. 122 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 3: It'll come out on an it'll come out on a Monday. 123 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:04,279 Speaker 3: I don't know when this will come out. But a 124 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:05,960 Speaker 3: stamp is a really classic example. 125 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:06,240 Speaker 1: Right. 126 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 3: So you've written a letter to your friend Noel, and 127 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 3: you've stamped it, and you've put in the mailbox and 128 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 3: he gets it and he rips it open and reads 129 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 3: the letter and he's, you know, overwrought with emotion. Whatever 130 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 3: he throws out or hopefully recycles the uh, and that's it. 131 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 3: But Noel happens to have a great stamp collection, right, 132 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 3: and I've sent him, you know, uh inverted Jenny stamp 133 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:31,320 Speaker 3: from the nineteen thirties, and so he is overwrought with emotion, 134 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 3: not because of my great pros, but because this is 135 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 3: a great addition to his stamp collection. 136 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 1: Because he is a philetist or philitist? 137 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 3: Is that it is? 138 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 1: How's it? How it's pronounced? You a p h I 139 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:46,400 Speaker 1: L A T I s t one who collects stamps. 140 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 3: What's the root word of philetist? 141 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 2: Sorry, it could also be one who filets, you know, 142 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 2: That's what I would think, because that's how the British 143 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 2: pronounced fil a. They pronounce it phill it really they 144 00:07:57,880 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 2: do a hard t stund at the end of it. 145 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 2: I always find that very interesting because sometimes the Brits 146 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 2: seem like they really own the word, and sometimes they 147 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:05,840 Speaker 2: just feel like they're mispronouncing and just to be cute, 148 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:09,720 Speaker 2: cute sort of like aluminium, Like that's not the word, Brits. 149 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:12,240 Speaker 2: Come on, it's illuminum. You're adding syllables in there that 150 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 2: don't belong. 151 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:18,679 Speaker 1: Place the American English. To be fair, we can't really 152 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 1: criticize the people who are doing it. First. That's also fair. 153 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:24,640 Speaker 1: Ben If they want to add an extra pe on shop, 154 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:27,559 Speaker 1: then that's kind of their call. Uh yeah, to answer 155 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 1: that question about etymology. It's interesting because it comes from 156 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 1: French and Greek. So uh itelia means exemption from payment. 157 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 1: The French philo means loving, so it's loving exemption from payment, 158 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 1: which is weird, right. 159 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 3: No, but it's it makes sense, But don't ask me 160 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:49,600 Speaker 3: to explain it. 161 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:53,559 Speaker 1: Well, we can learn more about this. What what did 162 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:57,559 Speaker 1: you what are you exploring on this episode concerning stamps? 163 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 3: Oh, well, it's not it's all over. It's much more 164 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:04,000 Speaker 3: than you know. One of the things that we're doing 165 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:07,119 Speaker 3: is actually taking the word apart in this in this episode, 166 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:13,560 Speaker 3: so ef eemera comes from the root words epi meaning 167 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 3: honor of, like epicurius, epidermis, and hemera meaning day. It's 168 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 3: like a Latin Greek combination word. And so it starts 169 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:27,680 Speaker 3: being used by people in you know, the Age of Enlightenment, 170 00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 3: I guess, to describe things that only last for a day, 171 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:35,080 Speaker 3: that may fly, you know, a certain species of plants 172 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:39,440 Speaker 3: that flower and wither in a day. And then you know, 173 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:42,800 Speaker 3: it becomes with time more broadly used to describe things 174 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 3: that don't last a long time, you know, or fleeting. 175 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 3: And that's where you start getting into trouble because like 176 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:53,360 Speaker 3: in in a you know, the metrics of like a 177 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 3: human life. You know, maybe like one hundred years at best. 178 00:09:56,679 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 3: Something that doesn't last for long means something different than 179 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:04,680 Speaker 3: like geologically right, like melting polar ice caps or ephemeral 180 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:05,440 Speaker 3: At this point. 181 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:08,840 Speaker 1: Or was it? Who was that philosopher said all as ephemera? 182 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:11,760 Speaker 3: How have I never heard that? I've never heard of that. 183 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:15,079 Speaker 1: Maybe it's maybe it's a philosopher Marcus Aurelius. 184 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 2: Okay, there we go, all this ephemeral, both what remembers 185 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:19,559 Speaker 2: and what is remembered. 186 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 1: There we go. 187 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:22,760 Speaker 3: How have I never used that quote for something? 188 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 1: Your tagline, ye should hang out on the show more often. Man, 189 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:31,479 Speaker 1: I'm full of vaguely remembered one liners from ancient philosophers. 190 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:34,840 Speaker 2: So I mean, I guess ephemeral ephemerah, by its nature 191 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:37,880 Speaker 2: is sometimes a little hard to describe, as is the show. 192 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 2: It's not something that you can just encapsulate in a 193 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:42,720 Speaker 2: quick elevator pitch. So I put forth that we listened 194 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:44,240 Speaker 2: to a little bit of a clip that can then 195 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:45,319 Speaker 2: set up a discussion. 196 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:46,360 Speaker 3: What do you say, Oh? 197 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:49,040 Speaker 1: Sure, Oh, let's do the call your brothers, Yes, sir? 198 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:52,960 Speaker 3: As a kid, Franz Litz's father would tell him scary 199 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:56,559 Speaker 3: stories before bed. Only these stories were true. 200 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:02,959 Speaker 4: My father was a scientists engine inventor who had never 201 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:07,600 Speaker 4: really had much use for fairy tales. He preferred real 202 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:12,160 Speaker 4: life grotesqueries to fiction, and so at bed time I 203 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 4: would listen raptly to his urban horror stories. The most 204 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 4: macabre tale was one of the Collier Brothers, the hermit 205 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:23,400 Speaker 4: hoarders of Harlem. 206 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 3: There in their four story brownstone at the corner of 207 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:30,079 Speaker 3: Fifth Avenue one hundred and twenty eighth Street, the brothers 208 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:33,560 Speaker 3: sealed themselves up through the Great Depression, both world wars, 209 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:36,439 Speaker 3: and as Harlem shifted from a rich white suburb to 210 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 3: a poor black slum. 211 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 4: It was there in that brownstone that they amassed one 212 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:46,680 Speaker 4: of the world's legendary collections of urban junk. And in 213 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:49,079 Speaker 4: the end, the Collier brothers had one hundred and eighty 214 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:53,640 Speaker 4: tons of junk stored in their brownstone. And so I 215 00:11:53,720 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 4: got this image of this horror house. Things like pattered toysmis, trees, chandeliers, 216 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:06,319 Speaker 4: rusted bicycles, broken baby carriages, ford model t moldering oak chess, 217 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:10,359 Speaker 4: fourteen pianos who added babies and fromaldehyde. 218 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:13,960 Speaker 3: And newspapers, hundreds of thousands of newspapers. 219 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:19,520 Speaker 4: It was a collection so extraordinary that their accomplishment, such 220 00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:24,880 Speaker 4: as it was, confirms like a New yorkers worse nightmare, 221 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:29,200 Speaker 4: that they're crumpled people living in crumpled rooms where they're 222 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 4: crumpled possessions, the crowded chaos of the city refracted in 223 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:38,319 Speaker 4: their homes. It's not that New Yorkers hoard more than 224 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:41,840 Speaker 4: other people, so they have less room to hoard in. 225 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:47,439 Speaker 1: So the call your brothers c. L. L. Ye Er 226 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:51,200 Speaker 1: were just as they're described in that clip, right, they're 227 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:53,359 Speaker 1: what we would call compulsive hoarders. 228 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 3: Yeah. I don't know the history of the term hoarder 229 00:12:57,280 --> 00:13:01,720 Speaker 3: if we're applying a modern term and acariness, but yes, 230 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:05,720 Speaker 3: hacrats I suppose maybe is like an older term. Yeah, 231 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:07,200 Speaker 3: but horder's certainly. 232 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 1: Could you tell us a little bit more about these brothers. 233 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 3: So there's really one book on them, and it's by 234 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 3: a fantastic, exquisite writer named Franz Lids who grew up 235 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 3: hearing you hear his voice in the clip. He grew 236 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 3: up hearing these stories from his father as bedtime stories, 237 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 3: as scary stories that he wouldn't tell. He would tell 238 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:33,680 Speaker 3: Franz these stories, but not Franz's sister. For whatever reason, 239 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:36,520 Speaker 3: I thought that was interesting, and so when Franz grew up, 240 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:39,760 Speaker 3: he decided to learn everything that he could because no 241 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 3: one had really written anything, you know. Besides, they were 242 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:46,839 Speaker 3: sort of part of the urban legends of Harlem and 243 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 3: of New York. 244 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 2: To the point where it was almost a cautionary tale, 245 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:54,079 Speaker 2: like even the New York Fire Department would I believe. 246 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:57,880 Speaker 2: They had a term that they used called Collier's mansion 247 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:03,040 Speaker 2: syndrome that referred to extra instances of extreme clutter in 248 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 2: apartments that were fire hazards. So it almost became, as 249 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:08,120 Speaker 2: the name of the book implies, called ghost y men. 250 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 2: These these guys almost cast kind of a specter over 251 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:14,600 Speaker 2: this particular region to the point where they were so 252 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:18,800 Speaker 2: embedded in the cultural and oral tradition storytelling like ghost stories, 253 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:21,280 Speaker 2: that became this kind of cautionary tale almost right. 254 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, there's there's also a racial element to that too. 255 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:29,240 Speaker 3: The two brothers, Langley and Homer, moved with their parents 256 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 3: from Manhattan to the budding community of Harlem in the 257 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:38,400 Speaker 3: eighteen nineties sort of an economic boom time, and Harlem 258 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 3: is this new, rich, fancy suburb for people that want 259 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 3: to get out of dirty New York, you know, get 260 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:47,920 Speaker 3: out to gentrification basically. Yeah, well those oldest time well 261 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 3: it actually the economy crashes and there's a big bust 262 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:57,800 Speaker 3: and all of these rich families like move out, and 263 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:00,040 Speaker 3: there's all this empty space in Harlem. And then and 264 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 3: there was overtly racist practices taken on by the landowners 265 00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:08,240 Speaker 3: and harlve lifelines. Sure literally things that were called like 266 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 3: Negro surcharges, I see. And they would take these big, 267 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:16,280 Speaker 3: beautiful brownstone mansions, like the Collier brothers lives in a 268 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 3: four story brownstone mansion and divide them up into you know, six, seven, 269 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:26,360 Speaker 3: eight nine rooms, fill them up, overcharge African Americans to 270 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:30,200 Speaker 3: live there. But so anyways, the Collier Brothers were some 271 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:32,840 Speaker 3: of the few white residents at that point too. So 272 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 3: legend is that neighborhood kids would chuck rocks at their 273 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:40,440 Speaker 3: windows and stuff and call them ghosty men, both referring 274 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:43,560 Speaker 3: to like their sort of creepy hermit never come out 275 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:45,480 Speaker 3: of the house. Is there someone dead in there? 276 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 1: Yeah? 277 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:50,040 Speaker 3: And also you know, perhaps a racial connotation. 278 00:15:56,280 --> 00:16:00,680 Speaker 2: It's interesting too because there's a parallel story reminds me of, 279 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:05,160 Speaker 2: which is the Masols film Gray Gardens, where it's you know, 280 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 2: this mother and daughter that live in a very they 281 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 2: come from affluence. They live in this very similarly decrepit 282 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:14,080 Speaker 2: kind of mansion out in you know, the burbs, away 283 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:17,080 Speaker 2: from New York City, and they're completely kind of delusional 284 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 2: and sort of exist in this strange bubble together. And 285 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:21,880 Speaker 2: that sort of what ended up happening with the Collier brothers, 286 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:24,120 Speaker 2: where they got to a point I believe one of 287 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:27,240 Speaker 2: the Homer I believe was like a child prodigy and 288 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 2: like ended up getting some advanced degrees and did really 289 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:31,760 Speaker 2: well for himself for a time, and then they ended 290 00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:34,560 Speaker 2: up just kind of withdrawing completely from society. And that's 291 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:37,280 Speaker 2: when the extreme hoarding that we're talking about started to begin. 292 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:40,160 Speaker 2: And that's also where the legend stuff kind of comes in, Right. 293 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:44,920 Speaker 3: They really both were prodigies. Romer had advanced degrees from 294 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 3: Colombia and like admiralty law. 295 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 1: And what even is that? First of all, is it 296 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:54,200 Speaker 1: like maritime stuff are similar? Yes, And I believe also 297 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:56,160 Speaker 1: one of them was quite a talented pianist. 298 00:16:56,280 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 3: Is Langley played at Carnegie Hall and was followed by 299 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:06,399 Speaker 3: the famous pianists at the time, Padrewski, but Paaterewski quote 300 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:09,639 Speaker 3: got better notices than Hey, so he gave up the piano. 301 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 1: So, you know, it can always be discouraging to work 302 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:16,000 Speaker 1: that grind of the music industry, regardless of the era 303 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:22,280 Speaker 1: in which you live. Let's talk a little bit about 304 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:28,640 Speaker 1: what this timeline of degradation looks like. Because while they 305 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:33,399 Speaker 1: were infamous in their neighborhood and their community, especially as 306 00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 1: things started to get worse and worse for them mentally 307 00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:42,320 Speaker 1: and you know, Homer got a stroke, they started becoming 308 00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 1: more and more reclusive. Right. They didn't reach national attention 309 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:51,200 Speaker 1: until nineteen thirty eight, when the New York Times reported 310 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:53,960 Speaker 1: a false story about them and said that they had 311 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:56,640 Speaker 1: turned down an offer of one hundred and twenty five 312 00:17:56,680 --> 00:17:58,119 Speaker 1: grand for their house. 313 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:04,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a lot of strange sort of tabloid a. 314 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:06,399 Speaker 3: New York had eleven newspapers in those days. There was 315 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:08,880 Speaker 3: lots of lots of things that sort of bounce around 316 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:10,920 Speaker 3: in an echo chamber, I suppose. So there's a lot 317 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:12,879 Speaker 3: of strange leads that you can follow with the Collier 318 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 3: brothers that you never really get an answer to. I 319 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:18,840 Speaker 3: should say that Homer quits his job, Langley stops playing 320 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:21,520 Speaker 3: the piano, their father has moved back to Manhattan. At 321 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:23,440 Speaker 3: some point, they stay in the house with their mother 322 00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:26,520 Speaker 3: and really sort of start shuddering in in their you know, 323 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:28,320 Speaker 3: in their sort of mid twenties. 324 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:29,280 Speaker 1: And then their mother passes away. 325 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:31,679 Speaker 3: She passes away and is buried in some sort of 326 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:36,480 Speaker 3: bizarre kind of cult like ceremony. She just whisked out 327 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:39,040 Speaker 3: of a window one night and taken to a seminary 328 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:42,800 Speaker 3: that's very far away on foot. And it's never in 329 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:46,840 Speaker 3: the paper or anything. There's no obituary. She's she's just 330 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:48,800 Speaker 3: gone one day, and they wanted to keep it private. 331 00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:52,879 Speaker 3: I suppose after that they more or less had no 332 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:54,480 Speaker 3: contact with the outside world. 333 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:59,080 Speaker 2: I believe Homer lost his eyesight and became essentially legally blind, you. 334 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:01,360 Speaker 3: Know, and he I'm gonna illustrate it for you here, 335 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 3: had rheumatism and was doubled up like this with his 336 00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 3: knees below his chin. 337 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:09,480 Speaker 1: So for the description, just since we're an audio show, 338 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:15,560 Speaker 1: Alex has assumed a somewhat fetal esque position with both 339 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:19,439 Speaker 1: legs folded up against his chest and his arms folded 340 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:20,560 Speaker 1: around holding his legs. 341 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:22,879 Speaker 3: Oh I made this part, that's all you. No, the 342 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:27,040 Speaker 3: arms is just me, that's my thing. But so the 343 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:29,399 Speaker 3: poor guy. Yeah, and in his thirties this happened. I 344 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:35,440 Speaker 3: believe lost his eyesight. Langley became his brother's keeper, and 345 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:37,640 Speaker 3: I mean, I really do think they were. They loved 346 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:40,360 Speaker 3: each other and were very dutiful to each other. Langley 347 00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:44,800 Speaker 3: devised this scheme of feeding his brother one hundred oranges 348 00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 3: a day in orders who regained his eyesight. That's one 349 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:51,760 Speaker 3: of the poll quotes we have left of Langley Collier. 350 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:58,600 Speaker 3: And he saved him newspapers, hundreds of thousands of newspapers 351 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:00,480 Speaker 3: when he could read again, when he could read again, 352 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:07,600 Speaker 3: which is heartbreaking and sweet. These newspapers obviously are yellowing, rotting. 353 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 3: Sure they're you know, it's a four story, humongous mansion. 354 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:19,160 Speaker 3: Langley made them into arches and tunnels and made an 355 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:23,000 Speaker 3: inner framework for their mansion out of newspapers and all 356 00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:24,840 Speaker 3: kinds of other to tris. I mean, there's really no 357 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:29,240 Speaker 3: I have incredibly long lists of this stuff that I've 358 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:30,800 Speaker 3: I've pulled from different sources. 359 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:35,960 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, let's see baby carriages, rusted bikes, Because apparently 360 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 1: Langley was so Homer never sought medical help for his rheumatism. 361 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:43,680 Speaker 1: Is that correct? 362 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:45,960 Speaker 3: Well, it's hard to say. It's hard to be absolute 363 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:48,119 Speaker 3: about anything. I mean, you know, like I said, we 364 00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:50,600 Speaker 3: have the one book and either there there's there's things 365 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:51,520 Speaker 3: that we just want to never know. 366 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:53,680 Speaker 1: Best we have for primary source because it sounds like 367 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:56,320 Speaker 1: a lot of the headlines of the time, the contemporary 368 00:20:56,359 --> 00:21:00,439 Speaker 1: papers you mentioned were just reporting stuff that would sell papers. 369 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:02,800 Speaker 3: Uh, there was we don't actually don't talk about this 370 00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:05,439 Speaker 3: in the episode, but there's one reporter, Helen Warden is 371 00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 3: her name. Langley sort of took a liking to her. 372 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:10,639 Speaker 3: She was waiting outside of his apartment or outside of 373 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 3: the brownstone one day around midnight he came out to 374 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:15,080 Speaker 3: make his nightly rounds. He would walk around the city 375 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:19,560 Speaker 3: and just drag a cardboard box with a string behind him, Yeah, 376 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:24,800 Speaker 3: and fill it up with just whatever stuff he came across, 377 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:28,360 Speaker 3: all kinds of things. She met him out there one 378 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 3: one night at the at the outside the brownstone, and 379 00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:39,840 Speaker 3: he just sort of started unloading information on her. She 380 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:42,440 Speaker 3: made mention of maybe visiting inside the house one day, 381 00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:45,840 Speaker 3: and he's and that's when he stopped and took off. 382 00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 1: Oh, Wow. Yeah, and this is this is interesting because 383 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:53,240 Speaker 1: around this maybe around this is after the time when 384 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:57,800 Speaker 1: Langley began not going out until midnight, right, and then 385 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:02,119 Speaker 1: returning home with junk. I So one of the things 386 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:06,120 Speaker 1: that people familiar with this story probably always mentioned. It's 387 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:08,919 Speaker 1: certainly a thing that I bet producers would mention when 388 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 1: they're talking about fictional adaptations, will be the booby traps. 389 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:15,720 Speaker 1: Were the booby traps real? That's a question people. 390 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:16,720 Speaker 3: They were very real. 391 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:17,879 Speaker 1: That's the big kicker. 392 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:23,120 Speaker 2: I mean talking about this labyrinthine infrastructure of garbage essentially, right. 393 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:25,480 Speaker 1: I mean it was like walled up kind. 394 00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 3: Of every window, every door full. 395 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:31,760 Speaker 2: And they rigged it so that things would literally, if 396 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:34,399 Speaker 2: they were intruders or dare we say, some sort of 397 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:38,160 Speaker 2: like tomb raider type situation, people would get got. 398 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:41,280 Speaker 3: They just they really wanted to be left alone. I mean, 399 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:45,359 Speaker 3: there certainly is some paranoia and some fear built into 400 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:47,119 Speaker 3: that collection collecting habit. 401 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:51,000 Speaker 1: I heard that the booby traps were not not a 402 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:53,600 Speaker 1: thing that they had just come up with out of 403 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:56,240 Speaker 1: the blue. I heard it was a reaction to a 404 00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:59,840 Speaker 1: number of attempted burglaries on the house. When people began 405 00:22:59,880 --> 00:23:02,919 Speaker 1: to think that they were hoarding not only junk but 406 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:06,359 Speaker 1: also a financial fortune, so maybe there was some logic 407 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:06,920 Speaker 1: behind it. 408 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:09,080 Speaker 3: They were from a well to do family. At some 409 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:13,919 Speaker 3: point they reportedly owned a large section of waterfront in 410 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:17,679 Speaker 3: New York. Oh wow, Actually their parents were like cousins 411 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:19,280 Speaker 3: and oh. 412 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:19,879 Speaker 1: That well to do. 413 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:23,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, it came over on the speed well from England. Yes, 414 00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:25,960 Speaker 3: so I don't know if anyone ever tried to actually 415 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:28,399 Speaker 3: burgle their house, but there's certainly you know, all their 416 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:32,480 Speaker 3: utilities got cut off one after the other, so people 417 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:34,120 Speaker 3: from the city would try to get in their house. 418 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:39,800 Speaker 3: Police officers absolutely, and you know Langley would occasionally just 419 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:41,679 Speaker 3: sort of reach his head out the window and scream 420 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:44,879 Speaker 3: go away, or they would just say nothing to them. 421 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:48,200 Speaker 3: It sort of brings you right to this fateful day. 422 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:52,440 Speaker 1: Oh are you talking about in nineteen forty seven, March 423 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:55,560 Speaker 1: twenty first, when police received an anonymous tip. 424 00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:59,200 Speaker 3: That is the very that's very damn talking about. 425 00:23:59,600 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 2: You know. 426 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:03,280 Speaker 3: No, you're in this episode, in the recreation of this 427 00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:06,000 Speaker 3: that we do. Oh, that's right, what did I do? 428 00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:06,840 Speaker 2: It's been so long. 429 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:08,400 Speaker 1: You've been working on this for such a long time. 430 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:11,760 Speaker 1: You've been doing recreations. I have don't get it. 431 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:17,240 Speaker 3: Absolutely you will you and Chuck are you know, maybe 432 00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 3: we'll leave it to the listeners, fair to go seek 433 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:22,480 Speaker 3: it out with this. Your voice and our friend and 434 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:25,440 Speaker 3: colleague Chuck Bryant are intertwined in this. 435 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:26,639 Speaker 1: That's awesome. 436 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:28,240 Speaker 2: This is the one where the cops like yelling up 437 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 2: at the window. I do remember this now, Okay, that's 438 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,959 Speaker 2: ringing a bell. I'm no spoilers there, but yeah, definitely 439 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:36,200 Speaker 2: that's the kind of stuff you can expect in this show. 440 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:38,879 Speaker 2: It's not only you know, it's not like this whereas 441 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:41,720 Speaker 2: me and Ben Gavin about history. It's a real experiential 442 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:43,560 Speaker 2: thing and it's got a lot of these kind of 443 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:45,959 Speaker 2: cool production touches that really make it special. 444 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:48,400 Speaker 3: But what happened that day? So this is what we're said. 445 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:51,600 Speaker 3: March twenty first, nineteen forty seven, that faithful day, the 446 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:57,040 Speaker 3: police receive an anonymous phone call. Well, Charles Smith is 447 00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:59,359 Speaker 3: the guy who gives the phone call. Never we've never 448 00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:00,919 Speaker 3: been able to fall up and Charles Smith. 449 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,640 Speaker 1: So Alex did the air quotes there. 450 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:06,760 Speaker 3: So I forgot that doesn't come through. Charle Smith calls 451 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:09,760 Speaker 3: the police and reports a body at the Collier Residence. 452 00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:12,639 Speaker 3: Police show up. Police that have been there before know 453 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:15,359 Speaker 3: this place is booby trapped, so they proceed with caution. 454 00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:17,320 Speaker 3: But they do break down the door and it is 455 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:21,200 Speaker 3: walled up with junk. They can't get through. They start 456 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:29,240 Speaker 3: axing their way through, and vapor of decay erupts out 457 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:29,879 Speaker 3: onto the street. 458 00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:32,920 Speaker 1: Miasthma may see very much. 459 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:34,959 Speaker 2: It's sort of like Atlanta in the summer. It's all 460 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:37,280 Speaker 2: coming very much, so for. 461 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:42,119 Speaker 3: Basically a whole day, they're trying to get in different ways. 462 00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:46,399 Speaker 3: It's all tunneled. They know that there's booby traps, things 463 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:51,159 Speaker 3: like feces and jars and bricks and nails and things 464 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 3: like that, really terrible, horrible things that could very much 465 00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 3: injure a person. Someone breaks through, takes a letter up 466 00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:02,080 Speaker 3: to the second story, breaks through a window and finds 467 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 3: Homer Callier doubled up as he always is in the corner, 468 00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:07,520 Speaker 3: but he's shriveled up and dead. 469 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:12,080 Speaker 1: How long had he been dead? Did it seem, for 470 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:14,639 Speaker 1: lack of a better word, fresh, or was the corpse. 471 00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:17,560 Speaker 3: Like well, I'm not sure how soon they were able 472 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:19,880 Speaker 3: to determine it, but it had been a while. Oh wow, 473 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:22,760 Speaker 3: it had been a while. And then the real question 474 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:27,320 Speaker 3: was where's Langley? Has he killed his brother? Has he fled? 475 00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:33,680 Speaker 3: And the search that went on took weeks to find 476 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:34,439 Speaker 3: Langley Collier. 477 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:36,560 Speaker 1: Did they search the city or the house? 478 00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:41,360 Speaker 3: It was an international search. Oh wow, yeah, like I said, 479 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:43,680 Speaker 3: eleven newspapers New York at the time. So that echo 480 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:48,120 Speaker 3: chamber is going crazy. Langley Colliers are getting cited everywhere 481 00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:51,119 Speaker 3: in different cities in the Carolinas and Chicago on trains, 482 00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:56,080 Speaker 3: extra extra There's a moment where a guy there's a 483 00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:58,040 Speaker 3: photograph that gets published in some paper of a guy 484 00:26:58,080 --> 00:26:59,879 Speaker 3: literally holding a sign that says, I am not Langley 485 00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:02,040 Speaker 3: because he's got kind of like a little beard and 486 00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:05,160 Speaker 3: a little scruffy and maybe looks a bit like one 487 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:06,040 Speaker 3: of the Caller brothers. 488 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:11,480 Speaker 1: So this is all clearly building to a conclusion of sorts. 489 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:19,400 Speaker 1: It turns out, however, that Langley Caller has not crossed 490 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:23,720 Speaker 1: the Atlantic, he has not smuggled himself into Canada or Mexico. 491 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:26,359 Speaker 1: Where exactly is he. 492 00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:29,359 Speaker 3: It's very tragic. He's found ten feet from where his 493 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:33,480 Speaker 3: brother Homer was found. And it's a number of weeks later. 494 00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:37,159 Speaker 3: There was so much junk, and they'd spent all this 495 00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:40,640 Speaker 3: time clearing it, police and firefighters clearing it, then eventually 496 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:45,760 Speaker 3: professional cleaning crews or clearing crews rather just ten feet 497 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:49,200 Speaker 3: from his brother, he was coming to bring him food 498 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:52,480 Speaker 3: and caught one of his own booby traps. Oh no 499 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:57,040 Speaker 3: died there, and Homer died of neglect. He hadn't been fed. 500 00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:01,560 Speaker 3: And so you end up with this, like what Noel 501 00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:06,760 Speaker 3: was talking about earlier, this sort of bizarre, stranger than 502 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:14,800 Speaker 3: fiction tale that's embedded in folklore, and it reads a 503 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:18,679 Speaker 3: bit like a morality tale. But then I don't know 504 00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:20,560 Speaker 3: what it is that the Caller brothers did that was 505 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:23,159 Speaker 3: so wrong, Like I think I say in the episode, 506 00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:25,399 Speaker 3: I mean, probably they should have paid their taxes and stuff. 507 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:27,120 Speaker 3: But it's also a. 508 00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:31,439 Speaker 2: Very distinctly New York kind of story where it's like 509 00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:34,879 Speaker 2: you're surrounded by people. Being in New York, every inch, 510 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:39,880 Speaker 2: every scrap of space is used up, is you know, occupied, 511 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:42,719 Speaker 2: and you have no like there's no sense of freedom 512 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:44,400 Speaker 2: kind of when you're walking around New York, like it's 513 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:46,200 Speaker 2: a beautiful place and there's a lot going on, but 514 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:49,560 Speaker 2: it does have this claustrophobic feeling to it. Anyway, So 515 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:52,320 Speaker 2: the idea that especially now knowing we know about real 516 00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:55,040 Speaker 2: estate prices and all that that two men would just 517 00:28:55,160 --> 00:29:00,640 Speaker 2: like own this quite opulent setup and just allow it 518 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:04,800 Speaker 2: to become this absolute nightmare in that way, and it 519 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:08,960 Speaker 2: speaks to kind of the cluttered feeling of New York 520 00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:12,560 Speaker 2: as a city. I think it's a very interesting parallel there. 521 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:15,560 Speaker 2: And yes, is there anything wrong with being a hoarder 522 00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:19,080 Speaker 2: or collecting things or any of that stuff. No, but 523 00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:21,960 Speaker 2: this speaks to something I think a little bigger than that, 524 00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:24,680 Speaker 2: and that paranoia and the fact that these two were 525 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:27,320 Speaker 2: all they had and they got into this, like, you know, 526 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 2: kind of cycle of just not wanting anybody else to 527 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:32,760 Speaker 2: be in their lives at all, and yet they're living 528 00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:35,880 Speaker 2: in the most populous place in the country where there's 529 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:38,600 Speaker 2: so much culturally going on in such an interesting time 530 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:39,400 Speaker 2: and history too. 531 00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:39,760 Speaker 4: Right. 532 00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:43,680 Speaker 3: Franz Lids calls it a New Yorker's worst nightmare. 533 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:47,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know. For me, this also calls to mind 534 00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:52,400 Speaker 1: a documentary called Cropsy. Are You Familiar with Us? Cropsy 535 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:58,480 Speaker 1: is a documentary about an urban legend regarding a boogeyman 536 00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:02,720 Speaker 1: like figure that's stall people in this in the area 537 00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:06,840 Speaker 1: surrounding a place called the Willowbrook Mental Institution. Which had 538 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:10,680 Speaker 1: been closed down and in the in the course of 539 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:14,160 Speaker 1: this documentary, they find that this boogeyman like figure, this 540 00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:17,560 Speaker 1: modern urban legend, is based on fact, and there is 541 00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:23,240 Speaker 1: a real uh, there is a a pearl of truth 542 00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:29,960 Speaker 1: inside this this lambjel of scary urban folklore. We got 543 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:32,480 Speaker 1: there so uglier than a Joe Montana pass. 544 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:35,360 Speaker 3: I have seen that documentary, but I didn't remember it 545 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,280 Speaker 3: until you start talking about it. It's good. Yeah, it's 546 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:40,280 Speaker 3: a worthwhile documentary. I need to rewatch that. 547 00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:48,760 Speaker 1: Now you've heard us talk a little bit about the 548 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:52,600 Speaker 1: Caller Brothers, folks, but if you want to truly experience 549 00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:56,080 Speaker 1: the story, which goes much deeper than what we've discussed here, 550 00:30:56,560 --> 00:31:00,880 Speaker 1: we highly recommend that you get thee too your favorite 551 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:04,479 Speaker 1: podcast app of choice story on the seventeenth of June 552 00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:07,800 Speaker 1: to talk out to check out the call your Brother's Story. However, 553 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:12,640 Speaker 1: there are other episodes of Ephemeral available now. Like, as 554 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:14,800 Speaker 1: you're listening to this, please listen to the rest of 555 00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:17,280 Speaker 1: our show before you listen to the next one. But 556 00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:21,520 Speaker 1: what are some topics that really stuck out in your 557 00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:23,320 Speaker 1: mind that you've published recently. 558 00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:29,280 Speaker 3: Well, we've just published an episode with interviews Sarah Wasserman, 559 00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:32,000 Speaker 3: who's a professor at the University of Delaware, is basically 560 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:37,600 Speaker 3: an ephemera teacher. Oh wow, yeah, and so she's the 561 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:40,520 Speaker 3: person who can really answer some of the tough questions 562 00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:42,120 Speaker 3: that we brought up at the top of the show. 563 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:48,320 Speaker 3: The episode before that is a study of Ottoman American 564 00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:54,200 Speaker 3: diaspora music. You might say, what immigrants from the collapsing 565 00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:57,000 Speaker 3: Ottoman Empire in the early part of the twentieth century, 566 00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:01,200 Speaker 3: the teens, twenties, thirties, fleeing like people are from all 567 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:08,000 Speaker 3: over the world coming to America and recording heart stopping 568 00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:13,160 Speaker 3: beautiful music in New York, mostly Chicago for big labels 569 00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:17,080 Speaker 3: like Columbia Victor and then also some small independent labels too. 570 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:23,000 Speaker 3: So music in Greek and Arabic that has largely, almost 571 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:28,920 Speaker 3: entirely been forgotten, These records that were pressed in limited 572 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:33,400 Speaker 3: quantities because of some sort of racist practices at that time. 573 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:38,920 Speaker 1: That's astonishing. You know, part of the area where I 574 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:43,480 Speaker 1: and one of our colleagues, Dylan Fakean is from in 575 00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:49,560 Speaker 1: Tennessee is has a huge population of Lebanese immigrants who 576 00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:53,560 Speaker 1: have left. I think Lebanon was, at least in name 577 00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:56,520 Speaker 1: ruled by the Ottoman Empire until that collapse from what 578 00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 1: post World War One nineteen eighteen ish. And I think 579 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:03,800 Speaker 1: I've heard some of I have to listen to this. 580 00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:06,160 Speaker 1: I think I've heard something that might qualify in this 581 00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:08,600 Speaker 1: genre that's bizarre to me. 582 00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:11,560 Speaker 3: And I mean there's all kinds it's not. There's all 583 00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:14,320 Speaker 3: kinds of music in it. There's party songs, there are 584 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:21,440 Speaker 3: heartbreak songs, and there's fantastic singing and ood playing and 585 00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:26,320 Speaker 3: things that I don't really have the vernacular to describe. 586 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:31,240 Speaker 3: But we interview in this episode, and really where all 587 00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:34,200 Speaker 3: of the inspiration for it came from is a gentleman 588 00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:38,360 Speaker 3: named Ian Nagoski who is in Baltimore and does reissue 589 00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:41,920 Speaker 3: records of this stuff, literally sometimes pulls them out of 590 00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:45,400 Speaker 3: the trash. I've seen pictures of some of these records 591 00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:48,600 Speaker 3: that they have that are so abused, and does everything 592 00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:53,560 Speaker 3: he can to salvage them, to save them, to learn 593 00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:56,080 Speaker 3: as much as he can about the performers. Sometimes you 594 00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:59,760 Speaker 3: can't find anything. Sometimes you get lucky and to spread 595 00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:04,920 Speaker 3: the word about it. So it's a fantastic interview that 596 00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:06,600 Speaker 3: that's part of that and the music and it is 597 00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:09,600 Speaker 3: it's some of my favorite music now I. 598 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:11,080 Speaker 1: Would love to hear it, and don't have to take 599 00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:13,239 Speaker 1: our word for it. You can tune in and check 600 00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:14,320 Speaker 1: out this music yourself. 601 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:16,560 Speaker 2: And that's the thing what you're gonna get with this 602 00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:20,680 Speaker 2: show is the conceit of the show is such a 603 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:23,600 Speaker 2: cool one, but it also allows for such a broad 604 00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:27,239 Speaker 2: range of topics, which I think is really important even 605 00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:29,399 Speaker 2: for a show like what we do. Like our only 606 00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:32,560 Speaker 2: lynchpin is that these stories are in some way bizarre, strange, 607 00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:35,160 Speaker 2: or ridiculous or hilarious, and so that gives us like 608 00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:36,920 Speaker 2: kind of carte blanche to let go in all kinds 609 00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:40,920 Speaker 2: of different directions. Similarly with your show. Very different show, 610 00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:44,080 Speaker 2: but very similar heart in terms of just like being 611 00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:47,560 Speaker 2: fascinated by things and wanting to get answers to why 612 00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:49,839 Speaker 2: things play out the way they do in history, and 613 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:51,600 Speaker 2: just kind of I think anyone that is into this 614 00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:53,879 Speaker 2: show even remotely is going to be very much into 615 00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:54,680 Speaker 2: your show as well. 616 00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:59,600 Speaker 1: To me, it's a there's something about it, and please 617 00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:02,440 Speaker 1: take this for the profound compliment it is that reminds 618 00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:06,520 Speaker 1: me of the free associative nature of the film Waking Life, 619 00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:12,040 Speaker 1: the way that it connects in this very very intentional 620 00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:15,640 Speaker 1: but a dreamlike state. You know what I mean? This 621 00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:19,839 Speaker 1: is this is one of the podcasts that I hear 622 00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:22,000 Speaker 1: a ton of shows, but this is one of the 623 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:25,520 Speaker 1: ones that comes with a very new and unique voice. 624 00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:27,800 Speaker 1: And I mean that sincerely. 625 00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:31,320 Speaker 3: You can compare me to Richard Linkletter anytime. I'm fine 626 00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:31,799 Speaker 3: with that. 627 00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:35,799 Speaker 1: So it looks like we're going to We're going to 628 00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:40,120 Speaker 1: have to save our our own explorations of things that 629 00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:43,279 Speaker 1: came and went for another day. But shout out to 630 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:47,520 Speaker 1: Pizzeria Chips. I miss you if you're listening. If a 631 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:51,080 Speaker 1: big demo of our show is extinct. 632 00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:54,960 Speaker 2: Sentient pizzeria chips. Yeah, extinct potato chips terrifying. I gained satpiens. 633 00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:55,200 Speaker 1: Yeah. 634 00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:57,200 Speaker 2: I was going to talk about Beta Max tapes that 635 00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:01,960 Speaker 2: were only literally killed. Production was killed by Sony like 636 00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:06,040 Speaker 2: in twenty sixteen, and I believe they stopped distributing the 637 00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:09,200 Speaker 2: players and recorders of Beta max tapes only a couple 638 00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:11,400 Speaker 2: of years before that. But that used to be kind 639 00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:15,040 Speaker 2: of the like go to for high resolution news footage 640 00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:17,960 Speaker 2: and archiving. And now I actually have a stack of 641 00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:20,440 Speaker 2: Beta max is on my desk right now that I'm 642 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:22,760 Speaker 2: trying to find a place that can transfer them digitally, 643 00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:25,480 Speaker 2: and there are folks that still have them, whether they're 644 00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:29,759 Speaker 2: news agencies or like companies that specialize in digitizing your 645 00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:33,120 Speaker 2: family memories. That's big business now because of this nature 646 00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:37,000 Speaker 2: of epemera. And not only is the medium antiquated now, 647 00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:39,839 Speaker 2: the way of playing it back is gone or much 648 00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:42,000 Speaker 2: more scarce. And that says that you have a really 649 00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:44,360 Speaker 2: great trailer for your show that's all about answering machine 650 00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:46,640 Speaker 2: messages and how that used to be such a cultural 651 00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:48,560 Speaker 2: thing that people would do and it was important to 652 00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:51,319 Speaker 2: leave a really good message and just the idea of 653 00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:54,280 Speaker 2: these things that kind of came and went left an impression, 654 00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:57,080 Speaker 2: and now it's almost this kind of like specter that 655 00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:00,480 Speaker 2: like hangs over society and it's really interesting looking forward 656 00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:02,960 Speaker 2: to hearing more from a femoral with Alex Williams. 657 00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:05,360 Speaker 1: I'm going to I'm going to save that. I have 658 00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:07,840 Speaker 1: this great list that I'm going to save and post 659 00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:13,000 Speaker 1: on our Facebook page later for ridiculous historians. Because I 660 00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:16,839 Speaker 1: did an okay job just mentioning pizzerias. It's really hard 661 00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:19,680 Speaker 1: not to just immediately start talking about them. So I'm 662 00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:22,480 Speaker 1: just gonna like mention some things that left and then 663 00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:24,840 Speaker 1: we'll pick it up later. So check us out on 664 00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:27,680 Speaker 1: our Facebook page, Ridiculous Historians. You should be able to 665 00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:32,440 Speaker 1: find a femeral wherever you find your favorite podcast like 666 00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:35,799 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History and so on. In the meantime, Alex, thank 667 00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:39,880 Speaker 1: you so much for coming on the show. Actually another 668 00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:42,640 Speaker 1: started with a peak behind the curtain. Let's end with one. 669 00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:45,799 Speaker 1: Our office actually closed a few hours ago and we 670 00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:48,640 Speaker 1: were able to convince you to stay over and take 671 00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:50,040 Speaker 1: this strange journey with us. 672 00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:53,360 Speaker 3: You know before, I feel like i'd be remiss to 673 00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:58,080 Speaker 3: not mention that Ridiculous History was the first show that 674 00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:02,000 Speaker 3: I helped make. That's very beginning it was. It was 675 00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:04,480 Speaker 3: the three of us at the very very beginning of it. 676 00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:06,360 Speaker 2: And Alex, I'm not sure if you know this or not. 677 00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:08,400 Speaker 2: You've got so much on your play. We thank you 678 00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:10,960 Speaker 2: at the end of every episode for the wonderful theme 679 00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:13,560 Speaker 2: that you composed. So now we can do our little 680 00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:15,840 Speaker 2: thank yous, and we can do it in person. Thanks 681 00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:18,480 Speaker 2: to Alex Williams who composed our theme and for being 682 00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:19,520 Speaker 2: here today for an interview. 683 00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:21,239 Speaker 3: I did know that you've thought and I very much 684 00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:22,640 Speaker 3: appreciate it. Yeah, thank you. 685 00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:25,400 Speaker 1: We are big fans of thanking people in this show. 686 00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:29,600 Speaker 1: I'd also like to thank super producer Ramsey, ram Jams 687 00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:32,400 Speaker 1: you owns, thank you so much for saving the show. Ramsey, 688 00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:36,200 Speaker 1: thanks for having me. Guys, absolutely our pleasure. 689 00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:40,000 Speaker 2: Thanks to super Producey Casey Pegrim here in spirit, not forgotten, 690 00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:44,040 Speaker 2: gallavanting around Paris right now living his best second life. 691 00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:47,840 Speaker 2: And thanks to Christopher Haciotis you know, also here in spirit. 692 00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:52,680 Speaker 1: Thanks to Jonathan Strickland aka the Quiztor, as well as 693 00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:57,040 Speaker 1: our research associate gabe El, who desperately needs a nickname, 694 00:38:57,120 --> 00:38:58,959 Speaker 1: so send some suggestions our way. 695 00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:01,560 Speaker 2: Ben, Thanks to you for always being a friend and 696 00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:04,640 Speaker 2: a confidant down that road back again you know the drill. 697 00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:09,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks to you as well. Noel. We are gone 698 00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:12,280 Speaker 1: for today. This ends our episode, but not our show. 699 00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:15,360 Speaker 1: You can also find us on our aforementioned Facebook page. 700 00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:17,480 Speaker 1: You can find us on Twitter. You can find us 701 00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:22,720 Speaker 1: at Instagram. You can also find our weird personal Shenanigans, 702 00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:27,239 Speaker 1: misadventures and malarkey on our personal instagrams. I am at 703 00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:27,800 Speaker 1: Ben Bolin. 704 00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:29,959 Speaker 2: I actually has changed my handle. I am now at 705 00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:32,839 Speaker 2: how now Noel Brown and where can they check out 706 00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:36,520 Speaker 2: ephemeral on the social media's alex at ephemeral show. 707 00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:39,120 Speaker 1: We'll see you next time, folks Hi. 708 00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:04,799 Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 709 00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:07,040 Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.