1
00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:07,840
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. They're welcome to Steph.

2
00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:19,400
Speaker 1: I've never told your protection. I heart radio, So Samantha,

3
00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:22,120
Speaker 1: I know we've talked about fan fiction a lot, a lot,

4
00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:24,360
Speaker 1: A lot a lot. Do you remember the first time

5
00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:28,520
Speaker 1: you heard about it and what you thought it was? Okay,

6
00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:32,199
Speaker 1: not to sound judg mental, but I don't think i've

7
00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:34,839
Speaker 1: thought about it. I knew it existed, but that was it.

8
00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:36,519
Speaker 1: That was the end of it. Like I didn't have

9
00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:39,360
Speaker 1: a judgment either way. I didn't. I thought, great, do

10
00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:42,960
Speaker 1: your thing. I think great, it exists. Oh, I didn't

11
00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:47,480
Speaker 1: know how big the world was, and I have learned

12
00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:50,479
Speaker 1: more and more and more and more and more about

13
00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:54,800
Speaker 1: it as of late. Thanks to you. Holy to you,

14
00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:57,040
Speaker 1: like there's no end part like holy to you. I

15
00:00:57,040 --> 00:01:00,240
Speaker 1: don't think I've ever gond to anyone else about fan faction.

16
00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:03,800
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I've never talked to anyone else about fan fiction.

17
00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:09,800
Speaker 1: Although again I have read things like Twilight, which I

18
00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:12,040
Speaker 1: know was fan fiction, and then when she had the

19
00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:15,800
Speaker 1: only online available of that specific version, I read it

20
00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:18,640
Speaker 1: before it was out, like ten years before it was out.

21
00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:21,640
Speaker 1: So I guess I knew existed, didn't know that was

22
00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:28,680
Speaker 1: fan fiction. Until later, M yeah, so did that answer

23
00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:34,080
Speaker 1: the question? Yeah? Yeah, I mean I try not to

24
00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:37,360
Speaker 1: be because I am such a fan fiction evangelist. I

25
00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:42,000
Speaker 1: tried very hard not to. Well, actually, every time someone's

26
00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:43,479
Speaker 1: like I don't like fan fiction, on my well did

27
00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:45,080
Speaker 1: you like this book or did you like this thing?

28
00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:48,480
Speaker 1: Because that's correctly fan fiction. And I would argue a

29
00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:51,600
Speaker 1: lot of what people think isn't fan fiction, that is

30
00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:54,680
Speaker 1: was written by men and a scene as like academic,

31
00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:58,480
Speaker 1: whereas if women did the same thing, then it's trashy

32
00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:03,840
Speaker 1: and not with your time. I was in seventh grade

33
00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:07,280
Speaker 1: the first time I heard a fan fiction, and then

34
00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:08,960
Speaker 1: my good friend Katie is the one who introduced it

35
00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:10,840
Speaker 1: to me, and she was like, oh my god, you've

36
00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:13,640
Speaker 1: got to go. There's so much stuff you can read,

37
00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:16,480
Speaker 1: and it's all kinds of stuff, and she was like,

38
00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:19,000
Speaker 1: you can read all kinds of parents and stuff. And

39
00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:21,120
Speaker 1: I'm like, what about the Yanks? And she's like, there's

40
00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:27,359
Speaker 1: so much thanks, Oh, oh my gosh. At the time,

41
00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:28,840
Speaker 1: the first fan fiction I ever read was a whole

42
00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:31,800
Speaker 1: of the Rings fan fiction and I only had a

43
00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:33,920
Speaker 1: certain amount of time on the computer. I think I

44
00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:36,440
Speaker 1: tell this story in this episode and it's thirty minutes,

45
00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:38,080
Speaker 1: and everything took so long, so I just printed off

46
00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:41,600
Speaker 1: the fan fiction seventy two chapters long, huge chapters. It

47
00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:44,359
Speaker 1: took forever, like I had to keep replacing things, and

48
00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:46,640
Speaker 1: then I whole punched it tied together. Luckily, I loved it,

49
00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:51,200
Speaker 1: but it was sad even for me. I will say, um,

50
00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:53,200
Speaker 1: that was my first introduction to it, and then I

51
00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:56,040
Speaker 1: was in love with it ever since. I've always read

52
00:02:56,080 --> 00:02:59,040
Speaker 1: fan fiction. I go through like ebbs and flows of

53
00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:02,239
Speaker 1: how much I read, but I've always read it since

54
00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:04,240
Speaker 1: then and recently on the trip I took with my

55
00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:07,920
Speaker 1: good friends that I've known since we were young to

56
00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:11,040
Speaker 1: the beach, there were times where we were all reading

57
00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:14,239
Speaker 1: fan fiction, like we're all reading are different hand fiction.

58
00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:16,240
Speaker 1: We'd be like, oh, what are you reading this? She'd

59
00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:19,960
Speaker 1: say like, oh, Hermione, Draco, whatever, whatever, what are you reading? Oh,

60
00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:23,400
Speaker 1: something about like l Frights and Harry Potter, and I'm like,

61
00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:25,919
Speaker 1: I'm reading my tragic Luke Skywalker story. And then we'd

62
00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:32,280
Speaker 1: go back to silence and reading it was so fun. Yeah,

63
00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:34,359
Speaker 1: I could talk about it forever, and I do try

64
00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:39,320
Speaker 1: to restrain myself. But speaking of a while back, Virgin

65
00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:43,680
Speaker 1: I did a two part fan fiction episode and we've

66
00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:46,360
Speaker 1: been mentioning it in reference to a bunch of things lately,

67
00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:50,200
Speaker 1: so we thought we would bring them back as classics.

68
00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:59,600
Speaker 1: So enjoy part one of our fan fiction Extravaganza. Hello,

69
00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:01,680
Speaker 1: this is Annie and this is a Bridget, and you're

70
00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:16,839
Speaker 1: listening to stuff Mom never told you, and today it's

71
00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:22,120
Speaker 1: finally time, finally, to talk about fan fiction. Finally. It

72
00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:25,000
Speaker 1: feels like such a long time coming, It really does, it,

73
00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:28,160
Speaker 1: doesn't it. Yeah, I was telling Bridget before this we

74
00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:31,280
Speaker 1: started recording. It's just been coming up a lot and

75
00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:34,520
Speaker 1: I'm not sure why, but it seemed right. It seemed

76
00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:36,280
Speaker 1: like we had to talk about it. And do you

77
00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:39,000
Speaker 1: want to have this disclaimer right at the top. We're

78
00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:42,440
Speaker 1: totally aware that fandom can be toxic, and it absolutely

79
00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:46,080
Speaker 1: can be extremely toxic, and we will touch on elements

80
00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:49,280
Speaker 1: of that here in this episode. We're definitely gonna talk

81
00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:52,120
Speaker 1: about it more in depth in a future episode. Today,

82
00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:54,880
Speaker 1: we're focusing mainly on fan fiction, a little bit of

83
00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:57,680
Speaker 1: fan art, but mostly fan fiction. So for folks out

84
00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:00,279
Speaker 1: there who don't know what fan fiction is, what is it?

85
00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:03,760
Speaker 1: Sometimes called fan fic r f F. Fan fiction is

86
00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:07,520
Speaker 1: writing typically done by amateur but not always writers and fans.

87
00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:09,760
Speaker 1: Par is the work of other works, usually but not

88
00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:12,839
Speaker 1: always works of fiction. So you're kind of in the

89
00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:15,760
Speaker 1: fan fiction world. We call it playing in someone else's sandbox.

90
00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:20,320
Speaker 1: And if you haven't surmised, I have a lot of

91
00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:23,680
Speaker 1: experience with fan fiction. Tell us more about your experience

92
00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:27,240
Speaker 1: with fan fiction, Annie, have you ever written any fan fiction?

93
00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:31,080
Speaker 1: I have written some fan fiction, probably as soon as

94
00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:34,120
Speaker 1: the Internet was available to me. I had a friend

95
00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:37,720
Speaker 1: shout out Katie Um who introduced me to fan fiction.

96
00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:41,640
Speaker 1: I read mostly Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, some

97
00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:44,720
Speaker 1: Star Trek, some X Files. I guess I dabbled all

98
00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:47,400
Speaker 1: over the place, but the Harry Potter was my big one.

99
00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:51,400
Speaker 1: Later I got into like Supernatural and Star Wars, but

100
00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:53,720
Speaker 1: I wrote one for I wrote I think a couple

101
00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:55,640
Speaker 1: of Harry Potter ones. I wrote a Star Wars one

102
00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:58,159
Speaker 1: that one was the worst, and a Peter Pan one

103
00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:01,200
Speaker 1: and a Lord of the Rings one. So yeah, I

104
00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:03,680
Speaker 1: have quite a bit of experience. What about you, Bridget

105
00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:06,280
Speaker 1: have you ever read any fan fiction? I have not

106
00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:09,200
Speaker 1: written any. I have read some. I'm a I'm I

107
00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:11,919
Speaker 1: guess you could call me an appreciatory. I think I

108
00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:15,719
Speaker 1: think it's cool that people express themselves via fan fiction

109
00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:18,120
Speaker 1: and fan art. I think fandom is cool. I feel

110
00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:20,760
Speaker 1: a bit left out of nerd fandom because I am

111
00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:23,359
Speaker 1: solidly like, not in the mix on most of it,

112
00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:26,159
Speaker 1: except for X files fandom maybe like xpils a lot

113
00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:27,880
Speaker 1: um so there are a few things, but for the

114
00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:30,479
Speaker 1: most part, I feel a bit left out of like

115
00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:35,560
Speaker 1: nerdy sci fi fantasy fandom, but I am a major

116
00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:39,760
Speaker 1: appreciator of it. From afar, Yes, I'm a fandom fan

117
00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:42,920
Speaker 1: because I think I am just fascinated by folks who

118
00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:47,720
Speaker 1: express their love of different things via art and cosplay

119
00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:51,919
Speaker 1: and meticulous recreations and you know, expanding on a universe

120
00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:54,040
Speaker 1: to make it, you know, what they want to see.

121
00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:55,840
Speaker 1: I think that's really cool. So I'm you can call

122
00:06:55,880 --> 00:07:01,360
Speaker 1: me a fandom fanom fan fiction about fanom fiction would uh.

123
00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:03,960
Speaker 1: Doing the research on this episode, while being one of

124
00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:07,880
Speaker 1: the most delightful experiences of research I've ever ever gotten

125
00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:10,880
Speaker 1: to do luckily for work, also made me appreciate fan

126
00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:13,360
Speaker 1: fiction a lot more. It made me respected a lot more.

127
00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:16,080
Speaker 1: So we we've touched on fandoms. Fan fiction is made

128
00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:19,360
Speaker 1: up of fandoms. Like books, TV shows, movies. You can't

129
00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:22,320
Speaker 1: even have real person fiction r p F as it's

130
00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:24,920
Speaker 1: sometimes called based on celebrities. And I know some of

131
00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:28,080
Speaker 1: our how Stuff Works colleagues have featured in some fan fiction.

132
00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:30,520
Speaker 1: Maybe we have bridget. I don't know. Is there any

133
00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:33,720
Speaker 1: bridget fan fiction there could be? I love to read it.

134
00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:37,920
Speaker 1: Here's a challenge for you. Pretty much anything you can imagine.

135
00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:40,280
Speaker 1: But one misconception to get out of the way right

136
00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:43,040
Speaker 1: up front is fan fiction is not full on adoration

137
00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:47,000
Speaker 1: of whatever fandom. Often it's a critique and or subversive

138
00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:50,600
Speaker 1: and almost always pushing past boundaries and breaking rules. We've

139
00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:53,440
Speaker 1: talked about the barrier gage trope before. Fan fiction was

140
00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:56,040
Speaker 1: a place for people to course correct tropes like that,

141
00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:59,760
Speaker 1: to find representation in fandoms they loved, but we're vastly

142
00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:03,200
Speaker 1: nordon or to write that representation themselves. It was a

143
00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:05,400
Speaker 1: place for l g b t q I stories that

144
00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:09,600
Speaker 1: were anonymous and where you were generally accepted. This is

145
00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:13,600
Speaker 1: actually where some of my fandom fandom comes in. I

146
00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:18,240
Speaker 1: really enjoy reading kind of lgbt q I reimaginings of

147
00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:22,960
Speaker 1: different stories. I definitely read some Good Gilmore Girls fan

148
00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:26,040
Speaker 1: fiction wherein do you ever watch Gilmore Girls? Okay, so

149
00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:30,160
Speaker 1: I've seen every episode twice, multiple times, usually more than twice.

150
00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:33,200
Speaker 1: But it was a pretty Actually I didn't really like

151
00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:35,120
Speaker 1: the show towards the end, but I kept watching it.

152
00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:37,400
Speaker 1: But one of the characters on the show Rory. She

153
00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:39,920
Speaker 1: has one of those sort of three main boyfriends, and

154
00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:41,760
Speaker 1: the question is always like, oh, do you like Logan,

155
00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:44,760
Speaker 1: do you like just do you like Dean? And I

156
00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:48,640
Speaker 1: enjoy fan fiction where she doesn't date any of them,

157
00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:51,479
Speaker 1: but in fact falls in love with her best friend Paris.

158
00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:56,560
Speaker 1: So I I really appreciate fan fiction that reimagines characters

159
00:08:56,760 --> 00:08:59,439
Speaker 1: as living in the queer identities I feel they should

160
00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:03,640
Speaker 1: be rightfully living. Oh, absolutely, Curiosity. Have you ever read ash?

161
00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:08,040
Speaker 1: I have not. It is reimagining of Cinderella with two

162
00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:12,480
Speaker 1: women as the lovers. Oh is the woman a princess? Yes?

163
00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:15,760
Speaker 1: Oh put that on my list. Yeah. And that is

164
00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:18,000
Speaker 1: an example. And we're going to talk more about this later.

165
00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:21,319
Speaker 1: But of like actual fan fiction that has been published,

166
00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:23,920
Speaker 1: sort of depends on how you define fan fiction. But anyway,

167
00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:26,960
Speaker 1: so fan fiction, especially when we're talking about the online

168
00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:29,880
Speaker 1: the Internet can be multi chaptered or it could be

169
00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:32,400
Speaker 1: a stand alone, sometimes called a one shot. It could

170
00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:34,320
Speaker 1: be a drabble, which is a couple of hundred words,

171
00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:37,280
Speaker 1: but they're generally, on average about twenty thousand words, or

172
00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:40,360
Speaker 1: at least the best reviewed ones are. I just remembered

173
00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:44,839
Speaker 1: I did write some fan fiction. Oh stop everything, tell

174
00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:49,000
Speaker 1: me more, Bridget it was. This is gonna sound absurd.

175
00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:53,280
Speaker 1: It was number of the Babysitters Club. It was. It

176
00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:57,080
Speaker 1: was Babysitters Club, Mallory and Jesse all grown up, living

177
00:09:57,080 --> 00:10:01,120
Speaker 1: in Brooklyn and having a relationship together. Oh my gosh,

178
00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:03,680
Speaker 1: that doesn't sound absert at all. I just kind of thought,

179
00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:05,880
Speaker 1: so if you live, if you've read the Babysitters Club books,

180
00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:08,760
Speaker 1: Jesse and Mallory are like the junior Babysitters are not

181
00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:11,640
Speaker 1: actual members of the BSc, not yet because they're younger,

182
00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:15,240
Speaker 1: but they're always sort of mentioned in tandem. And Mallory

183
00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:18,240
Speaker 1: is clearly a lesbian, Like it's very clear. They could

184
00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:21,400
Speaker 1: not have made it any clearer. Homegirl lives in like

185
00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:25,479
Speaker 1: an Oxford, you know, Like it's very clear to me. Um,

186
00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:27,760
Speaker 1: And so yeah, I always thought, like, wouldn't it be

187
00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:32,400
Speaker 1: cool if Mallory and Jesse grew up and moved to Brooklyn?

188
00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:36,640
Speaker 1: And Jesse worked at a dance nonprofit and Mallory was

189
00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:39,640
Speaker 1: a writer for Slate. Wouldn't that be cool? I think

190
00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:43,160
Speaker 1: it would be. Do you still have access to this? God?

191
00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:49,280
Speaker 1: Oh well, this is embarrassing. I blocked this out, untild

192
00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:52,200
Speaker 1: this and told this very moment. We're having kind of

193
00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:54,240
Speaker 1: an intervention thing right now. I want to when did

194
00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:56,920
Speaker 1: you write it? Not that long ago, like two years ago?

195
00:10:57,240 --> 00:10:59,800
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I thought it would make a funny series.

196
00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:03,160
Speaker 1: It is. I'm so on board. All right, Maybe we're

197
00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:05,679
Speaker 1: going to revisit this episode at a later date and

198
00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:08,800
Speaker 1: we'll both share a little taste old fan fiction. Taste

199
00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:12,679
Speaker 1: fan fiction, daste, And not to embarrass our producer to Dylan,

200
00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:14,760
Speaker 1: but he also wrote a fan fiction. He doesn't have

201
00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:16,360
Speaker 1: his headphones on. He won't hear to you, I know,

202
00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:19,840
Speaker 1: but he will hear this later. He's editing it. He

203
00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:22,480
Speaker 1: wrote one bro. I don't know if you remember Arthur

204
00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:27,640
Speaker 1: the animated Yeah, he's an art park. He's an ant eater.

205
00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:32,959
Speaker 1: Oh gosh, now I'm having doubts about I always thought

206
00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:34,520
Speaker 1: he was an art park because when he's in the

207
00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:40,080
Speaker 1: Spelling Bee, he spells Ardvark, so like enthusiastically. Oh my god,

208
00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:42,440
Speaker 1: he's an art vark. I don't think he was an

209
00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:45,480
Speaker 1: ant eater. I don't know, Bridget, I don't know. But

210
00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:49,520
Speaker 1: Dylan wrote a fan fiction about Arthur and a friend

211
00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:51,520
Speaker 1: of his getting stuck in an ice cream shop and

212
00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:54,000
Speaker 1: eating ice cream together, which I thought was very cute.

213
00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:57,000
Speaker 1: I've read some fan fiction that are over a hundred chapters,

214
00:11:57,200 --> 00:11:59,520
Speaker 1: some that are less than one hundred words. Genre a

215
00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:02,599
Speaker 1: rise are usually a mix of action, adventure, romance in

216
00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:04,920
Speaker 1: a way that a lot of traditional media cannot be.

217
00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:07,319
Speaker 1: The chapter ones are like old school TV shows or

218
00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:10,720
Speaker 1: even maybe a podcast per se, where maybe the author

219
00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:12,720
Speaker 1: has a day each week they publish or try to

220
00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:16,400
Speaker 1: publish in the meantime. You just I remember just being like, Oh,

221
00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:18,000
Speaker 1: I can't wait till the chapter comes out. I hope

222
00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:21,280
Speaker 1: this happens. This allows the writers to learn and adapt

223
00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:23,480
Speaker 1: from readers as they go and create a product that

224
00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:25,840
Speaker 1: appeals to a wider audience because there is a comment

225
00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:28,800
Speaker 1: and review function, so it really sounds like an expression

226
00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:32,800
Speaker 1: of community kind of fandom where people are excited to

227
00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:35,480
Speaker 1: read more and they give feedback about what they want,

228
00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:37,599
Speaker 1: and so it's kind of a collaborative project in a

229
00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:41,000
Speaker 1: kind of way. Yeah, and that's that's a big, not

230
00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:43,840
Speaker 1: really point of contention. But some people say that published

231
00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:46,920
Speaker 1: works of fan fiction aren't really fan fiction because they're

232
00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:51,160
Speaker 1: lacking in that community aspect and community it's so important

233
00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:54,880
Speaker 1: to fan fiction. And if you're wondering kind of like,

234
00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:57,120
Speaker 1: why are they talking about fan fiction on stuff, mom

235
00:12:57,160 --> 00:13:00,160
Speaker 1: never told you other than I love it, clear you

236
00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:03,319
Speaker 1: the community that writes and reads fan fiction is mostly

237
00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:06,760
Speaker 1: women are non binary. We're going to talk about that

238
00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:09,800
Speaker 1: later in the podcast, but just know in the back

239
00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:13,760
Speaker 1: of your mind that this is mostly a female community

240
00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:17,640
Speaker 1: and the breakdown is is really fascinating. But first we're

241
00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:19,560
Speaker 1: gonna take a quick break for word for a sponsor

242
00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:31,080
Speaker 1: m H and we're back. Thank you sponsor. That I

243
00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:33,800
Speaker 1: wanted to talk about some lingo because I love some

244
00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:36,920
Speaker 1: fan fiction lingo. You've got a U, which stands for

245
00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:40,760
Speaker 1: alternate universe O O C are out of character o C,

246
00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:45,040
Speaker 1: which is original character cannon, staying within the confines of

247
00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:47,600
Speaker 1: what the fantom has laid out. Usually that means relationship

248
00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:50,840
Speaker 1: wise SLASH, which we're going to talk about a lot later,

249
00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:54,360
Speaker 1: and it refers to a noncanon couple of the same sex,

250
00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:59,040
Speaker 1: usually male females denoted by film slash impreg male pregnancy

251
00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:04,120
Speaker 1: cross over when two fandoms crossover for that. For research.

252
00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:06,280
Speaker 1: For actual research on this episode, I read a Harry

253
00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:09,240
Speaker 1: Potter and Avengers crossover and it was the best. I

254
00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:12,360
Speaker 1: was so happy. I got curtain fick, which is a

255
00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:16,240
Speaker 1: genre of fan fiction that focuses on domestic situations, like

256
00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:20,120
Speaker 1: say Kirk and Spock er out shopping for curtains, Like

257
00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:22,400
Speaker 1: it would never happen on the show, but people like

258
00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:26,080
Speaker 1: to imagine what it would be like. I love that. Yeah,

259
00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:29,280
Speaker 1: there's hurt comfort. That was one of my favorite things.

260
00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:33,640
Speaker 1: Hc race bending, when characters are either whitewashed or reclaimed

261
00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:37,080
Speaker 1: for minorities it could be could go either way. Gender

262
00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:40,400
Speaker 1: swap when you swap genders of characters UST, which I

263
00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:44,360
Speaker 1: use in real life unresolved sexual tension ship which you

264
00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:47,200
Speaker 1: can hear probably a lot outside of fan fiction to

265
00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:49,800
Speaker 1: ship a couple. And we talked about Mary Sue and

266
00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:52,200
Speaker 1: self insert in our Star Wars episode. So those are

267
00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:55,320
Speaker 1: some of the some of the big ones. Quite the glossary.

268
00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:58,360
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, there's so many more, and like if

269
00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:02,520
Speaker 1: we narrow the focus even even more to fandoms. They

270
00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:05,080
Speaker 1: have a lot of their own lingo within fandoms. So,

271
00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:07,440
Speaker 1: like I already mentioned on the show once DESTI l

272
00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:11,720
Speaker 1: from Supernatural, it's Dean and Castile and Harry Potter, you

273
00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:17,240
Speaker 1: had Snape. Harry was Snary, Truemani was Draco. Hermione are

274
00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:20,320
Speaker 1: Dreary Draco. Harry had a competition with a friend of

275
00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:23,440
Speaker 1: mine to find the most rare couple in all of

276
00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:29,040
Speaker 1: HP fandom, and I found never long Bottom and Memboless Membletonia,

277
00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:31,840
Speaker 1: which if you don't remember, is a plant that he

278
00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:37,000
Speaker 1: carries around and the story Neville gets transformed into a

279
00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:39,800
Speaker 1: plant and they fall in love. But she found one

280
00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:43,320
Speaker 1: that was between Harry Potter and the Giant Squid. Rule

281
00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:46,360
Speaker 1: thirty four. You can find sexually related or pornographic material

282
00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:51,000
Speaker 1: for pretty much everything, including Harry Potter fiction. Oh absolutely,

283
00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:53,040
Speaker 1: And if anyone has this beat, please right in. But

284
00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:56,200
Speaker 1: I would like to note it's a popular misconception that

285
00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:59,200
Speaker 1: most fan fiction is weird and pornographic. Most of it

286
00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:02,520
Speaker 1: is not at all, not at all, And speaking of

287
00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:05,920
Speaker 1: Harry Potter, it is often credited with bringing fan fiction

288
00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:09,600
Speaker 1: more mainstream. Fan fiction dot net, which was where I

289
00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:12,600
Speaker 1: went when I was getting my fan fiction, has almost

290
00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:16,760
Speaker 1: eight hundred thousand Harry Potter stories. Yeah, there's a lot

291
00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:19,960
Speaker 1: of Harry Potter fan fiction writers out there. Yeah. Back

292
00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:23,640
Speaker 1: in my heyday, every night I would check so, I mean,

293
00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:25,720
Speaker 1: it's kind of like search results, and I would just

294
00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:28,880
Speaker 1: go through every new page a fan fiction of the day,

295
00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:31,680
Speaker 1: and it was usually over thirty pages of new fan

296
00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:35,920
Speaker 1: fiction in one day. Yeah, newer, updated. Yeah. Oh, and

297
00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:39,280
Speaker 1: in general, fan fiction is free. What Pad does have

298
00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:42,600
Speaker 1: a premium ad removed service, but for the most part

299
00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:46,080
Speaker 1: totally free. And we are mostly talking about online fan fiction.

300
00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:49,320
Speaker 1: But fan fiction exists in several recognized forms of art

301
00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:52,800
Speaker 1: and business. The creator and showrunner relationship is a good

302
00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:55,880
Speaker 1: example once the original creator has left. I think Aaron

303
00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:58,800
Speaker 1: Sorkin once famously said, like, you couldn't watch The West

304
00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:02,200
Speaker 1: Wing after he left. Or you've got the officially sanctioned

305
00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:06,880
Speaker 1: Star Wars authors, So tell me more about that, as

306
00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:12,320
Speaker 1: as our resident Star Wars expert. Yes, so, I guess

307
00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:15,320
Speaker 1: it's Disney Disney on Star Wars now, but Disney kind

308
00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:19,479
Speaker 1: of picks an author to write the books that they

309
00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:23,760
Speaker 1: consider official canon for Star Wars. And yes, so they

310
00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:28,320
Speaker 1: kind of are just writing fan fiction published work. We'll

311
00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:30,640
Speaker 1: talk a little bit more about that later because it's

312
00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:34,400
Speaker 1: sort of an interesting dynamic, a big trend in fan

313
00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:37,159
Speaker 1: fiction right now, our stories written by teens that more

314
00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:40,160
Speaker 1: accurately reflect their lives. So when you were explaining, I'm

315
00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:42,720
Speaker 1: very interested by your fan fiction because it showcases a

316
00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:44,520
Speaker 1: lot of things that we are going to touch on,

317
00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:47,920
Speaker 1: but particularly right now, teens are writing about the prevalence

318
00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:50,240
Speaker 1: of social media and technology, maybe putting that into like

319
00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:53,800
Speaker 1: I've seen so many Harry Potter gets Facebook and what happens, Um,

320
00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:57,440
Speaker 1: Jenny Weasley, it's very upset that Harry Potter leaves eye

321
00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:01,840
Speaker 1: emojis under some random girls Instagram. Um, as she should

322
00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:06,120
Speaker 1: stuff like that. Yeah, that actually again, that's a that's

323
00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:09,840
Speaker 1: a bit like curtaining the curtain. Curtain. Yeah, it's a

324
00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:12,159
Speaker 1: reimagining of something that would never be in the books,

325
00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:13,920
Speaker 1: that would never be a plot line in the book.

326
00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:16,879
Speaker 1: But it's interesting, right, and it kind of goes to

327
00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:20,200
Speaker 1: show what fan fiction is really about, which is sort

328
00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:24,160
Speaker 1: of exploring certain aspects of yourself and your life. According

329
00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:27,480
Speaker 1: to Publishers Weekly, what Pad, which is a user generated

330
00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:31,919
Speaker 1: storytelling app reached eighteen million users in the space of

331
00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:35,840
Speaker 1: seven years, and this translated to sixty four thousand stories

332
00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:39,640
Speaker 1: getting updated per day and twenty three million stories a year.

333
00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:43,920
Speaker 1: The number of users rose to thirty five million, with

334
00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:46,119
Speaker 1: forty five percent of those in the age rage of

335
00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:49,920
Speaker 1: thirteen eighteen. Some classrooms have started using fan fiction as

336
00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:53,160
Speaker 1: a writing exercise now. Of note though, about what pod

337
00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:56,680
Speaker 1: this is specifically, of all of the places where you

338
00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:59,439
Speaker 1: can find fan fiction, it does skew a lot younger,

339
00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:02,080
Speaker 1: and it is a lot of one direction stories, like

340
00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:06,160
Speaker 1: real celebrity stories, so it's a little bit different than

341
00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:08,560
Speaker 1: most of the other ones that we're going to talk about. Well,

342
00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:11,080
Speaker 1: as a former teacher, I absolutely love the idea of

343
00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:15,040
Speaker 1: using fan fic to teach writing classes for young people.

344
00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:16,840
Speaker 1: That was something that I did in my classroom. Is

345
00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:19,160
Speaker 1: quite a bit where if us, if students won't get

346
00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:21,320
Speaker 1: out their cell phones or won't get off social media,

347
00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:23,399
Speaker 1: can you find a way to integrate with they're already

348
00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:25,879
Speaker 1: you know, loving and enjoying and what they're not paying

349
00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:28,760
Speaker 1: attention to your boring lecture to do instead? Can you

350
00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:30,480
Speaker 1: find a way to marry those two things? And so

351
00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:33,080
Speaker 1: I love, love, love the idea of using fan fic

352
00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:35,200
Speaker 1: as a writing tool, because it's just meeting young people

353
00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:38,000
Speaker 1: where they're already at. The fan fiction universe is being

354
00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:41,160
Speaker 1: dominated in small parts by young folks. Educators would be

355
00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:43,960
Speaker 1: you know, remiss to not capitalize on that because it's writing.

356
00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:45,879
Speaker 1: It's just another way that shows that young people are

357
00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:48,520
Speaker 1: fired up about writing, so you may as well turn

358
00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:52,320
Speaker 1: it into a curriculum. Absolutely. Another big fan fiction site,

359
00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:55,240
Speaker 1: Archive of Our Own or a O three, had over

360
00:19:55,320 --> 00:20:01,200
Speaker 1: four hundred thousand users generating over one million seventeen stories.

361
00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:03,200
Speaker 1: And I, like I said, I was a fan fiction

362
00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:07,040
Speaker 1: dot net person. And DVA Arts, which is more fan

363
00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:10,879
Speaker 1: art and illustrations Coming full is another site where that

364
00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:14,439
Speaker 1: has a visual component that's really kind of unique and

365
00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:18,280
Speaker 1: often beautiful. So if you're interested, I would absolutely speak

366
00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:22,480
Speaker 1: it out. In his Time article, Lev Grossman, author of

367
00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:25,320
Speaker 1: The Magician's Trilogy, described fan fiction in the context of

368
00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:29,439
Speaker 1: mainstream culture as quote what literature might look like if

369
00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:32,399
Speaker 1: it were reinvented from scratch after a nuclear apocalypse by

370
00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:34,800
Speaker 1: a band of brilliant pop culture junkies trapped in a

371
00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:39,440
Speaker 1: sealed bucker. That's so good. I know, it's really good

372
00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:41,919
Speaker 1: and he was speaking as a fan, but he acknowledges

373
00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:45,080
Speaker 1: how strange and extreme fan fix might seem to the

374
00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:49,399
Speaker 1: outside observer, particularly the outside celebrity as observer who might

375
00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:52,840
Speaker 1: be a bit weirded out by it. Yeah, as you

376
00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:55,840
Speaker 1: might be able to guess. Not all authors or creators

377
00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:58,440
Speaker 1: are on board with this. Some of them are buzz kills.

378
00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:02,840
Speaker 1: For example, in en N two, author Marian Zimmer Bradley,

379
00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:05,679
Speaker 1: who broadly encouraged fan fiction, but when one of her

380
00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:08,840
Speaker 1: upcoming novels closely paralleled a fan fiction she read, she

381
00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:11,240
Speaker 1: attempted to negotiate a deal with the author to avoid

382
00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:14,240
Speaker 1: a lawsuit. Now in the end, Bradley abandoned the novel.

383
00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:17,480
Speaker 1: Other authors like Anne Rice and mcafree and George R. R.

384
00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:21,440
Speaker 1: Martin have publicly denounced fan fiction for this reason. As

385
00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:23,520
Speaker 1: the Internet has grown older, a lot of authors have

386
00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:26,240
Speaker 1: softened their stance. Andie and I were joking earlier off

387
00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:29,280
Speaker 1: Mike about how we wanted to do fan fiction about

388
00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:33,280
Speaker 1: and Rice, because apparently an Rice is notoriously litigious, and

389
00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:36,680
Speaker 1: if you try to knock off her intellectual property, she'll

390
00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:39,280
Speaker 1: basically be at your door with a lawsuit in her hands.

391
00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:42,520
Speaker 1: So what if we did fan fiction about and Rice

392
00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:46,040
Speaker 1: hunting down. She's a fan fiction hunter's a fan fiction hunter.

393
00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:50,000
Speaker 1: I think it will work. Yeah. She posted like a

394
00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:53,520
Speaker 1: really intense note about like, you have to trust me

395
00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:56,439
Speaker 1: on this. You cannot. You cannot post fan fiction if

396
00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:59,240
Speaker 1: you look today, if we went to fan fiction dot net,

397
00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:01,560
Speaker 1: you would find no and Rice fan fiction. They won't

398
00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:05,320
Speaker 1: host it. And fan fiction is frequently looked down upon,

399
00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:08,680
Speaker 1: mostly because of some high profile ones being made into

400
00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:11,640
Speaker 1: books and movies that are also generally looked down upon,

401
00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:16,280
Speaker 1: but either way, it's popularity is growing. Even Amazon has

402
00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:18,959
Speaker 1: a fan fiction website now that lets authors published and

403
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:22,919
Speaker 1: receive royalties from e books from popular license series like

404
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:25,880
Speaker 1: Vampire Diaries. They kind of have a relationship with these

405
00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:29,680
Speaker 1: companies producing these series. The Washington Post wrote, what used

406
00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:33,000
Speaker 1: to be a disregarded copyright nightmare is a new, youth

407
00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:37,399
Speaker 1: friendly approach for publishers. Independent publisher Big Bang Press was

408
00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:40,199
Speaker 1: founded solely on finding new voices in fan fiction to

409
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:43,520
Speaker 1: write their own fiction novels, and while getting published is nice,

410
00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:46,439
Speaker 1: it's not really the goal. One of the most common

411
00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:50,600
Speaker 1: arguments against writing fan fiction is essentially, go write your

412
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:53,520
Speaker 1: own thing. You'll never succeed as a writer with a

413
00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:56,399
Speaker 1: fan fiction, But most people who write it are not

414
00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:59,560
Speaker 1: thinking they're going to be a published writer one day.

415
00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:02,560
Speaker 1: That's that's like saying people who play football are doing

416
00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:04,720
Speaker 1: so thinking that they're going to go pro one day.

417
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:07,680
Speaker 1: It's a hobby. It's something that people enjoy doing, that's

418
00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:11,560
Speaker 1: cathartic and satisfying. But most people are not like thinking,

419
00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:15,080
Speaker 1: if only I write best fan fick, I'll get published,

420
00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:17,840
Speaker 1: although some authors do use it to like stay up

421
00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:20,919
Speaker 1: the snuff. Do you think that one of the reasons

422
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:22,919
Speaker 1: why it's so looked down upon is because it's so

423
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:26,399
Speaker 1: heavily dominated by women and non binary people. Oh yes,

424
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:30,080
Speaker 1: and we are going to talk about that because there's

425
00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:32,919
Speaker 1: a there's an entire article that I'm going to reference

426
00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:35,600
Speaker 1: it later, but it's called when men write fan fiction.

427
00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:40,000
Speaker 1: It's seen as academic. Of course it is right, but

428
00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:43,680
Speaker 1: I definitely think there is an element to that. And I,

429
00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:47,520
Speaker 1: as someone who is pretty nerdy and tapped into nerd culture,

430
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:50,480
Speaker 1: I used to get really angry when I was younger

431
00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:53,760
Speaker 1: about how it's so accepted to be in a sports

432
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:57,000
Speaker 1: fandom and I couldn't figure out the difference. And then

433
00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:59,000
Speaker 1: when I was researching this, I had a moment of

434
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:03,960
Speaker 1: all sports is of very highly masculine fandom, and nerd

435
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:08,359
Speaker 1: media fandom is still kind of Machlin, but it's way less.

436
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:10,920
Speaker 1: So that's one of the reasons that I think that

437
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:14,600
Speaker 1: we just accept sports fandom, but we don't do the

438
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,919
Speaker 1: same with media fandom. And I think beyond that, you

439
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:21,680
Speaker 1: see that with so many different kinds of fandom and writing,

440
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:24,879
Speaker 1: Like in the episode we did around journaling, because journals

441
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,639
Speaker 1: are associated with femininity, they're seen as un serious. But

442
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:30,560
Speaker 1: then when a man writes one, it is seen as

443
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:34,080
Speaker 1: like his writings, his papers. But its female authors, even

444
00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:38,440
Speaker 1: very famous authors, you know Sylvia Plath, Emilee Dickinson, their

445
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:42,120
Speaker 1: journals are thought of as their sort of frivolous diary.

446
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:46,159
Speaker 1: But men their papers or they're collected writings. You know

447
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 1: that it's seen differently. And I think it's I think

448
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:51,320
Speaker 1: fandom is just like any other thing where when there

449
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 1: is a male association, it's sort of highbrow, and that's

450
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:55,880
Speaker 1: when it's a woman doing it, it's just an un

451
00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:57,720
Speaker 1: serious thing and you should just quit. Why are you

452
00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:00,640
Speaker 1: doing this anyway? Yeah, And I can think of examples.

453
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,199
Speaker 1: I ran across doing this research of that. One is

454
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:05,920
Speaker 1: the Beatles. Before, like when it was just a bunch

455
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:10,040
Speaker 1: of fan girls that were mooning over this band, they

456
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 1: were looked down upon. But then when men were like,

457
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:14,720
Speaker 1: you know, actually these albums are pretty good, then it

458
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:20,080
Speaker 1: became like Beatlemania totally acceptable. And another example is Brownies

459
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:24,120
Speaker 1: because I loved my Little Ponies, as did a lot

460
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:26,800
Speaker 1: of women for a long time, but it wasn't until

461
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:29,679
Speaker 1: dudes were like, you know what, I really like my

462
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:32,600
Speaker 1: little ponies. I'm gonna dress up. I'm gonna be at

463
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:36,719
Speaker 1: Brownie and then it became legitimate and cool and nerdy.

464
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:39,680
Speaker 1: Before that it was like lame and now you see

465
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:43,159
Speaker 1: that at conventions like Brownies. So once again, when it

466
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:46,440
Speaker 1: was a largely female fandom, it was not cool at all,

467
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:49,520
Speaker 1: and then when men came in and legitimized it, now

468
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:53,960
Speaker 1: cool Brownies. And not to disparage on Brownie's more power

469
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:56,960
Speaker 1: to I'm just saying like, culturally, it shows where we're

470
00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:59,200
Speaker 1: where we're at when it comes to those kinds of things.

471
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:02,199
Speaker 1: More on all of that later, but let's talk a

472
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:06,040
Speaker 1: bit about some some famous examples of published fan fiction.

473
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:09,000
Speaker 1: Because it did fan fiction did used to come with

474
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:11,480
Speaker 1: this risk of a cease and desist letter. And if

475
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:14,359
Speaker 1: you write about a rice, then yes you still gotta

476
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:16,720
Speaker 1: be Look, he's gonna hut you down. It'll be a

477
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:20,480
Speaker 1: rice like at your door. Yes it's an rice. I

478
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:27,439
Speaker 1: know your home. I like a book rice. She's behind you.

479
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:32,200
Speaker 1: She knows all in my time, and I'm sure still

480
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:34,960
Speaker 1: now at the top you always put like disclaimer. I

481
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:38,879
Speaker 1: don't know the powers that be own everything actually do

482
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:41,240
Speaker 1: anything or is it just so? I'm sure it doesn't.

483
00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:43,720
Speaker 1: But it's supposed to be like, well, maybe this will

484
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:45,960
Speaker 1: soften them. If they find it, they'll be like, well,

485
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:49,359
Speaker 1: at least she acknowledges there are these powers that be

486
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 1: that own it. But nowadays you very well might have

487
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:55,560
Speaker 1: read a fan fiction and not even known it. We've

488
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 1: mentioned before E. L. James, whose Twilight fan fiction became

489
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 1: the fifty Shades of Gray series, and this is probably

490
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:05,200
Speaker 1: the biggest one. It's estimated that at one million copies,

491
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 1: it out sold Twilight, the work it was based on.

492
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 1: I have to ask a dumb question, how is it

493
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:16,399
Speaker 1: a fan fiction when it doesn't involve vampires? Well? So E. L.

494
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:20,720
Speaker 1: James deleted the original fan fiction once she got published,

495
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:22,600
Speaker 1: but there you can still find people who have like

496
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 1: saved it and you can read it. And she just

497
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 1: swapped out the name, so it used to be Edward

498
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:30,520
Speaker 1: and Bella and now it's Christian and Anna. I'm not

499
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:32,639
Speaker 1: sure how much the vampire thing came up in the

500
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 1: original fan fiction, but the characters were essentially the same,

501
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 1: and I believe that side by side comparison showed she

502
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 1: only changed five percent. Yes, so probably just the names.

503
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:45,639
Speaker 1: And this has brought up a lot of questions of

504
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:48,880
Speaker 1: legality and calls a lot of concern about the end

505
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 1: of good writing and original work as we know it.

506
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:53,840
Speaker 1: As one writer at The Washington Post put it, the

507
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:56,080
Speaker 1: most scandalous part of Fifty Shades of Gray isn't what

508
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:58,920
Speaker 1: Christian Gray does behind closed doors, is that the book

509
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 1: might well be in illegal art. And I know the

510
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 1: author of Twilight has kind of She's never come out

511
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 1: against it per se, but there's definitely an air of

512
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 1: like she kind of wrote her own fan fiction on Twilight,

513
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:13,639
Speaker 1: which is interesting, can you write your own fan fix?

514
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:17,240
Speaker 1: Would she abandoned a project that was essentially a retelling

515
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:19,480
Speaker 1: of the first one from Edward's point of view, and

516
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:22,159
Speaker 1: she kind of made it sound like it was because

517
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:24,200
Speaker 1: the Fifty Shades of Great, at least in one interview

518
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:26,480
Speaker 1: I read, it does have to chap Her ask that

519
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:31,360
Speaker 1: Fifty Shades of Gray is more popular than Twilight. Oh, sure, absolutely.

520
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:34,960
Speaker 1: You've also got Cassandra Claire's The Mortal Instruments, which was

521
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,880
Speaker 1: originally a Harry Potter fan fiction, and I I remember

522
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 1: seeing that. I never read it because I was never

523
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 1: into Gremianny fan fiction. I had very specific things I

524
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 1: would read and that wasn't one of them. But I

525
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 1: remember seeing that one getting updated pretty pretty consistently. Anatod's

526
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 1: After which was based on a one direction fan fiction

527
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 1: Pride and Prejudice and zombies of course, wide Sargasso c

528
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:02,200
Speaker 1: by Genres, which I at in graduate school, and seminar

529
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 1: on women's writing. So yeah, I was taught fan fiction

530
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 1: when I was trying to get a PhD. It is

531
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 1: being taught in the academic setting a lot of There's

532
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 1: so many examples like that, like Wicked by Gregory McGuire

533
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,200
Speaker 1: it's essentially Wizard of Os fan fiction, or Roger and

534
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:19,600
Speaker 1: Hammerstein South Pacific, which is the only musical to win

535
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:22,400
Speaker 1: a Pulitzer based off of a work that also won

536
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:26,960
Speaker 1: a Pulitzers. Yeah, but again, there are some there is

537
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 1: some debate about whether these count because the community isn't

538
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:32,479
Speaker 1: necessarily there get that of curiosity. What's your take on

539
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:35,800
Speaker 1: that divide. I feel like these do count as fan fiction,

540
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:38,240
Speaker 1: but there is a part of me that almost wants

541
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:41,440
Speaker 1: to like classify it differently, if that makes sense, because

542
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 1: the community is a big part of it. Yeah. I

543
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:45,720
Speaker 1: don't know. I would count most of this as fan

544
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 1: fiction honestly personally, but I do think it's missing that

545
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:52,160
Speaker 1: that community part, that part that is so collaborative. You've

546
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:54,440
Speaker 1: also got a series of James Potter novels, sort of

547
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:56,960
Speaker 1: Harry Potter sequels by George Lippard that J K. Rolling

548
00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 1: has more or less been like, yep, okay, cool. You've

549
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:02,000
Speaker 1: got mag Cabot and Neil Gaiman who have dabbled in

550
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:05,840
Speaker 1: fan fiction, or Hamilton's, which is sometimes compared to fan fiction.

551
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:07,880
Speaker 1: I mean, if you think about Hamilton's, it kind of

552
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:10,920
Speaker 1: is fan fiction. It's taking this very familiar story that

553
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:15,040
Speaker 1: pretty much everybody knows and completely spinning it on its head. Yeah.

554
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:17,239
Speaker 1: There's a whole article about it on Box and it

555
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:19,120
Speaker 1: was quite a lovely read. Here's a quote from it.

556
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 1: In essence, Hamilton is a postmodern, meditextual piece of fan

557
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 1: fix functioning and precisely the way that most fan fix do.

558
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 1: It claims the cannon for the fan. In this case,

559
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 1: Hamilton's cannon is history and the fan. Miranda is doing

560
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 1: a lot more than simply adapting it. Like the best

561
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:37,760
Speaker 1: fan pick writers, He's not just selectively retelling history. He's

562
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 1: transforming it. That was a that was a good quote

563
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:43,960
Speaker 1: in the article. Enjoyed a lot of it. Also sens

564
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:47,720
Speaker 1: south by. Southwest saw the premiere of a movie called Slash,

565
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:50,239
Speaker 1: which was supposed to be about a teenager exploring its

566
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 1: sexuality through erotic slash fan fiction. But from what I read,

567
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:56,200
Speaker 1: it really didn't have much to do with slash fiction

568
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 1: after all, and it got most of what did have

569
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 1: to do with it pretty wrong. Is very erotic and weird,

570
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 1: which that does exist, but again it's the outlier. Most

571
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 1: fan fiction is curtain fick. I wonder where that misconception

572
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 1: around fan fiction comes from. That it's all you know,

573
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 1: erotic or sexualized or pervy or you know, where do

574
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,280
Speaker 1: you think that comes from? I think it kind of

575
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 1: goes back to that it's mostly women writing fan fiction.

576
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 1: A lot of it does have perhaps slash, but in

577
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 1: a lot of those slash stories, like they're buying curtains,

578
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:31,480
Speaker 1: you know, like maybe there's sex, maybe there isn't, and

579
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 1: maybe if there is sex, it's very like tame. I

580
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 1: think it's a misunderstanding that all these women are writing

581
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 1: about sex, so it must be weird. And yeah, there's

582
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 1: a lot of misconception about that. I was someone who

583
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:46,760
Speaker 1: really enjoyed like slash that never had any sexual thing,

584
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:54,880
Speaker 1: just like the relationships, like, oh they're they're close, that's intimate. Yeah,

585
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 1: I like this. I like this, And a lot of

586
00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 1: times I would get to a certain like say I

587
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,400
Speaker 1: all read nineteen chapters and then chapter twenty they have sex.

588
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 1: I would just like skip that that and you did

589
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:09,760
Speaker 1: this when you were in a teenager. Yeah, you're the

590
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 1: only teenager out there skipping the sexy parts. I'm like this,

591
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:15,360
Speaker 1: this isn't for me. A lot of times I really

592
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 1: appreciated it because a lot of authors would put like,

593
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 1: if you're not into sex, this chapter is not that important,

594
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:22,960
Speaker 1: you can skip it, And I was always like, thanks

595
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 1: for the warning. I really liked that, and fan fiction

596
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:29,880
Speaker 1: did for better or play a role in learning about

597
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 1: sex for a decent amount of as me included or

598
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:36,200
Speaker 1: learnings fan fiction. You taught me some things. An article

599
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 1: in Vice dealed into this how fan fiction served as

600
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 1: a tool of sexual exploration, especially for women in LGBTQ

601
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 1: who might not get much of a sex education or

602
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:49,239
Speaker 1: see themselves represented in media. Yeah, me and more than

603
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:51,600
Speaker 1: one of my friends definitely learned about sex from fiction.

604
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 1: I remember this per six fan fiction because again I

605
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 1: used to print them out, and so I wouldn't know

606
00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:02,240
Speaker 1: that was coming and surprised prize to characters or having sex.

607
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 1: And I'm trying to understand what's going on young Annie

608
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 1: with her printed out fan fiction. Oh yeah, man, I

609
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:12,960
Speaker 1: wonder if I still have that stuff. I should look.

610
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:16,040
Speaker 1: Most sites do have rating systems, like the m p

611
00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 1: A almost and you can as some of them, especially

612
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 1: like geared towards a younger audience. Do you have settings

613
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 1: that you can set up so that you can prevent

614
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 1: children from getting exposed to some of those things if

615
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:29,360
Speaker 1: that's something you're worried about. Some of them are less

616
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 1: effective than others. But some sites don't allow adult material,

617
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 1: and I kept getting a chuckle out of they would

618
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 1: say fan fiction dot net, because there is adult fan

619
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 1: fiction dot net. But that's where I stumbled onto my

620
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 1: sexy Lord of the Rings. And just think you'd be

621
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 1: if you hadn't done that, who knows where you'd be.

622
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:49,680
Speaker 1: I'd be lost, lost at sea. Fan Fiction has also

623
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:53,560
Speaker 1: led to so so so many academic studies. You've got

624
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:56,120
Speaker 1: the Writing and Reading a fan fiction and transformation theory

625
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:59,200
Speaker 1: by Virl van steen Hooy's Out of Perdue. This one's

626
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 1: really interesting because talks about how fan fiction does not

627
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 1: need the world described. That part is already done for

628
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 1: you and are seen if we're talking about a visual medium,

629
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:09,719
Speaker 1: so like the same is true with the characters, the

630
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:13,640
Speaker 1: pass the memories, their motivations, the readers all know this universe,

631
00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:17,200
Speaker 1: how it looks, it's rules. This means that it's extremely

632
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:19,920
Speaker 1: immersive right off the bat, Like you don't have to

633
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:23,319
Speaker 1: spend time setting that up. Everyone's kind of seeing the

634
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 1: same thing, which I didn't really think about, but that

635
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:30,080
Speaker 1: that's again kind of that communal aspect. You're entering into

636
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 1: this world that you already know and it's it's there

637
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:35,439
Speaker 1: for you, and then they're playing with the characters within

638
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:37,440
Speaker 1: it are the rules within it. Yeah, you've got this

639
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 1: nice backdrop already set up for you, like a canvas, exactly. Yeah.

640
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:44,160
Speaker 1: I was really interested in this study Slash as a

641
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 1: Queer Utopia by Dr Eco Willis out of the University

642
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:49,320
Speaker 1: of Bristol. Here's the quote from that one. The reader

643
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:51,239
Speaker 1: has to decide not only what readings of the show

644
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:54,120
Speaker 1: are possible, but what is possible at a fictional universe,

645
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:57,800
Speaker 1: and this decision must necessarily engage what she believes it

646
00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 1: is possible in her own universe. And you know, as

647
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:04,879
Speaker 1: queer people, that is kind of pitch perfect for our

648
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 1: media consumption experience, sort of deciding what things look like

649
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:12,360
Speaker 1: within our own understandings of ourselves and how that is

650
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:15,960
Speaker 1: reflected on these characters that we, you know, are coming

651
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 1: up with scenarios for yes and letting it play out.

652
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:23,279
Speaker 1: Some of the other studies we found have suggested that

653
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 1: writing fan fiction can help foster empathy, can decrease feelings

654
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:30,640
Speaker 1: of depression and isolation, can improve self esteem and overall

655
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:34,200
Speaker 1: psychological well being, which is all pretty good and fan

656
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 1: fiction does. Like I mentioned earlier, you do have that

657
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 1: review function, and my experience with it is it was

658
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 1: generally a very positive community. I did live in fear

659
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:46,880
Speaker 1: of the flame, the bad review, but generally most people

660
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:51,600
Speaker 1: really encouraging or are appreciative, and it was a really

661
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:54,839
Speaker 1: I had a really good experience with the community. And

662
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:57,040
Speaker 1: perhaps that does go back to it being mostly women.

663
00:35:57,400 --> 00:35:59,760
Speaker 1: It's like a little slice of a woman only internet.

664
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:02,520
Speaker 1: I've often thought, what would the Internet look like if

665
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 1: it was just women. I think it will be a

666
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:07,000
Speaker 1: less toxic place. But it seems like fan fiction is

667
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:08,920
Speaker 1: a place where they've kind of tested that out a

668
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 1: little bit. Yes, absolutely, and because of that it has

669
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 1: drawn like a lot of criticism, a lot of derision,

670
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:21,440
Speaker 1: a lot of fear. It's widely disparaged and misunderstood. Some

671
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:24,680
Speaker 1: of the popular stereotypes of arguments against fan fiction include,

672
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:27,800
Speaker 1: it's a much of nerds, they don't know how to socialize. Nope,

673
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 1: all fan fiction is pornographic slash written by straight teenaged

674
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:33,440
Speaker 1: girls are middle aged gay men, depending on who you're

675
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 1: listening to. Also not true. All fan fiction is written

676
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:40,760
Speaker 1: by horny teenage girls and is largely illiterate and immoral.

677
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:44,600
Speaker 1: Yeah don't way yeah, also not true. And again, stop

678
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 1: writing about someone else's characters. Start writing your own thing.

679
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:49,600
Speaker 1: And again it's not about that, but how did we

680
00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:53,799
Speaker 1: get here? Well, the history of fan fiction probably goes

681
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:56,279
Speaker 1: back further than you think, and we'll talk all about that,

682
00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:58,759
Speaker 1: but first we're gonna take a quick break for word

683
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:14,160
Speaker 1: for our sponsor and we're back. Thank you spots there. Okay,

684
00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:17,240
Speaker 1: So pending a date two when fan fiction began is difficult,

685
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:19,680
Speaker 1: and it depends on how strict of definition of fan

686
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:22,920
Speaker 1: fiction you're using. Some arguments say that the Grand Brothers

687
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 1: fairy Tales of the eighteen hundreds or fan fiction, they

688
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:28,200
Speaker 1: took oral stories and then kind of made them into

689
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:31,319
Speaker 1: their own thing, telling their own moral, whatever moral they

690
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 1: want to convey. Some arguments say, the Bible counts is

691
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:38,520
Speaker 1: fan fiction? The o g fan fiction the Bible Dang, Yeah,

692
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:41,000
Speaker 1: so that's pretty far back. Shakespeare often comes up in

693
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:43,439
Speaker 1: the conversation with the history of fan fiction as well.

694
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:45,880
Speaker 1: Most of his plays are derived from a legend or

695
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:48,840
Speaker 1: myth that he took and then added the Shakespeare touch.

696
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:51,279
Speaker 1: And it didn't take long after novels started to become

697
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:54,480
Speaker 1: more commonplace in the eighteen hundreds for popular authors like

698
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:59,319
Speaker 1: Daniel Dafoe to voice concerns of folks quote kidnapping his

699
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:03,320
Speaker 1: work a little strong but all right. Um. Jane Austin

700
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:05,680
Speaker 1: didn't seem too worried about it, though, and fans of

701
00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:08,680
Speaker 1: her works j Nights engaged in fan fix swapping in

702
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:12,279
Speaker 1: the late eighteen hundreds with early fanzines. This eventually led

703
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 1: to the publishing of the nineteen thirteen novel and Jane

704
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:18,959
Speaker 1: Austin fan Fiction, Old Friend and New Fancies. To date,

705
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:21,759
Speaker 1: two forty two published novels that are Jane Austin fan

706
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:24,359
Speaker 1: fiction are listed on good Reads. So she inspired quite

707
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:27,560
Speaker 1: a bit of published fan fiction. Wow, she's like the

708
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:31,160
Speaker 1: Harry Potter of her generation. She was the j. K

709
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 1: Rolling of her generation. Absolutely. Moving into the unitteen twenties,

710
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 1: we get Sherlock Holmes fan clubs and bigger cities like London,

711
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:41,759
Speaker 1: and these clubs put out the Baker Street Journal. The

712
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 1: journal had both academic type research and straight up fan

713
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:47,040
Speaker 1: fiction that the authors would read at fan events. And

714
00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:49,759
Speaker 1: this is some of the first recorded self insert fix

715
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:52,160
Speaker 1: where the authors you're talking about themselves in the world

716
00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:55,440
Speaker 1: of like Oh, I love it Yeah. In the next

717
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:58,400
Speaker 1: few decades, sci fi communities pretty much had the market

718
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:01,279
Speaker 1: on fan fiction. Folk in The community coined the term

719
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:03,799
Speaker 1: fan fiction in nineteen thirty nine, but they used it

720
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:06,960
Speaker 1: to mean amateur sci fi writings and professional sci fi

721
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 1: writings are profic was a different thing. The first known

722
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:13,799
Speaker 1: fan historian, John Jack Bristol Spear, defined the term in

723
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:17,799
Speaker 1: his nineteen forty four in Fans Cyclopedia, and then in

724
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:21,000
Speaker 1: nineteen fifty two The Enchanted Duplicator became the first book

725
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:24,160
Speaker 1: that was fanfic about fans and one of the first

726
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:27,280
Speaker 1: uses of fandom and print in regards to fans of media.

727
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:29,759
Speaker 1: That word was first used in late eighteen hundreds as

728
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:33,319
Speaker 1: a mashup of fan and domain for sports fans. Fan

729
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 1: fiction as we know it got it start in the

730
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:38,000
Speaker 1: nineteen sixties with Star Trek. This property gave fans a

731
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:40,320
Speaker 1: new way to interact with the work through magazines that

732
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:43,200
Speaker 1: published a fans work and conventions. Fans would make copies

733
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:45,520
Speaker 1: of his zines and hand the mad a conventions. When

734
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:47,719
Speaker 1: Doctor Who started to be included in these conventions in

735
00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 1: the nineteen seventies and eighties, this is when we saw

736
00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 1: some of the first crossover. So Doctor Who meeting was

737
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:56,920
Speaker 1: spock that I would read it, I would read it?

738
00:39:57,200 --> 00:40:00,160
Speaker 1: What about Doctor Who? And Spock shopping for Kurt is

739
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:02,480
Speaker 1: that I ka, oh my gosh. I had a crush

740
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 1: on both Spock and Doctor Who the tenth Doctor David Tennant,

741
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:09,920
Speaker 1: so I would totally be into it. Annie, Annie is

742
00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:12,480
Speaker 1: on board, as we talked about a little bit in

743
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:15,480
Speaker 1: our Star Wars episode the First Mary Suit Debuty in

744
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy three with a Treky's Tale. Although it was

745
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:21,080
Speaker 1: meant to be a parody, Yes, and Star Trek fandom

746
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:25,120
Speaker 1: also gave us the first slash thick in nine, a

747
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:28,800
Speaker 1: Kirk slash Spock Fick called The Ring of so Schern

748
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:31,439
Speaker 1: in which the two characters must have sex or die,

749
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:34,440
Speaker 1: fall in love, and quote spend all of their remaining

750
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:37,560
Speaker 1: days on the planet exploring both the planet and each

751
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:41,080
Speaker 1: other's bodies. Is this a bad Is it a bad

752
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:44,040
Speaker 1: situation for them? Or is it it's good? This started

753
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:47,560
Speaker 1: a whole I mean, I'm about to nerd out so hard. Okay,

754
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:52,000
Speaker 1: get get do it, Okay. So Spock, his species of

755
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:55,319
Speaker 1: Vulcan species has this sexual kind of ritual that they

756
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:58,200
Speaker 1: go through. It's it's a called pond far and you

757
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:00,719
Speaker 1: kind of go and heat and if you don't have

758
00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:04,960
Speaker 1: sex and bond with someone you die. So Spock went

759
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:08,080
Speaker 1: into pawn far while abandoned on this planet with Kirk,

760
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:12,239
Speaker 1: and so they had to have sex are Spock would die.

761
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:15,640
Speaker 1: This is actually a popular trope called her time on

762
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:18,280
Speaker 1: fan fiction, where you put two characters in a situation

763
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:22,160
Speaker 1: where they must have sex, forcing intimacy usually between two

764
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 1: men that wouldn't otherwise happen. So, no, this is a positive.

765
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:28,640
Speaker 1: I'm going to assume Kirk was like, Okay, I don't

766
00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:31,759
Speaker 1: want my friend to die. We can have sex. And

767
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:35,200
Speaker 1: then from there they fell in love and exploited each

768
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:40,719
Speaker 1: other's bodies for their aspect. Yes, and this story and

769
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:43,400
Speaker 1: the Kirk Spock ones that followed calls a lot of

770
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:47,319
Speaker 1: debate in the community during the seventies, and they were

771
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:51,200
Speaker 1: written mostly by women, and that was a part of

772
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:52,800
Speaker 1: the debate that did come up. Now there are a

773
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:55,759
Speaker 1: lot of articles in defense of fan fiction, mostly penned

774
00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:59,320
Speaker 1: by women, But the one that really started the most hubbub,

775
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:01,200
Speaker 1: if you will, was in the New York Times. In

776
00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:05,719
Speaker 1: this article, she discusses hol her professor, a woman said

777
00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:08,880
Speaker 1: that when compared to men, women quote must learn linear

778
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 1: narratives slowly and with much greater difficulty. The author points

779
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 1: to fan fiction writing, saying women who traditionally spend large

780
00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:18,799
Speaker 1: portions of their lives working in relative isolation for little

781
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:21,279
Speaker 1: or no pay, bring a different set of motivations to

782
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:22,920
Speaker 1: their writing and art. They want to talk to other

783
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:25,880
Speaker 1: women to express themselves in the science fiction form that

784
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:28,799
Speaker 1: until recently has all but excluded them, which I think

785
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:32,680
Speaker 1: really drives home this idea that it's about a female

786
00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:35,239
Speaker 1: form of expression and that it's really it's almost kind

787
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:37,880
Speaker 1: of like anti capitalist. It's not it's not attached to

788
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:39,360
Speaker 1: this idea that you're going to be rich and famous

789
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:41,960
Speaker 1: from doing this. It's it's more about personal growth and

790
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:46,799
Speaker 1: personal creation. Yeah, and that's another criticism often hurled at

791
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:50,320
Speaker 1: fan fiction is that it's nonprofit, as if, like women,

792
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:52,560
Speaker 1: you have no ambitions. Of course you have no ambitions.

793
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:54,080
Speaker 1: What are you doing. You're wasting your time on this

794
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:57,120
Speaker 1: thing that's never going to make you money, which, again,

795
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:00,120
Speaker 1: it's a hobby. I mean, would you say that to

796
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:05,560
Speaker 1: someone who made watercolors for fun, or someone who knitted

797
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:10,080
Speaker 1: but didn't sell their blankets they just liked knitting. Yeah, exactly.

798
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:12,640
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure someone does, but it doesn't make sense.

799
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:14,680
Speaker 1: It's not it's not. It's not a cogent argument. Not

800
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:16,799
Speaker 1: everything needs to be to make money or to get

801
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:19,279
Speaker 1: fame and to get you know, rich and famous. Some

802
00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:21,160
Speaker 1: things can just be for the pursuit of creativity. And

803
00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:24,040
Speaker 1: that's what it sounds like. These women were looking for absolutely,

804
00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:27,239
Speaker 1: And as things moved more online in the ninety nineties,

805
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:30,840
Speaker 1: X files that virgin I are a fan of exiles

806
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:35,560
Speaker 1: became the largest online own fandom. Scotland Yard, worried about

807
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:39,560
Speaker 1: a Heaven's Gate situation, started putting together secret files on

808
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:42,640
Speaker 1: the X files, X files, on the x file love

809
00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:45,479
Speaker 1: it and on star check on the fandoms around them.

810
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:48,200
Speaker 1: In at least one case, occult hazardism from fandom, but

811
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:50,880
Speaker 1: it's pretty rare. Also, if you look at violence and

812
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:54,360
Speaker 1: sports fandom, no secret files put together on that. Again,

813
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:57,040
Speaker 1: could it be because that is a male dominated fandom

814
00:43:57,040 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 1: and therefore cool well people act truly get hurt. In

815
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:04,799
Speaker 1: Europe they have to separate different soccer teams by like

816
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:07,680
Speaker 1: a wall, otherwise they would murder each other. People have

817
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:10,719
Speaker 1: gotten hurt from sports fandom. I don't know that there's

818
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:16,160
Speaker 1: been fanfic murders. Yeah, there's certainly some troublesome aspects in fandom,

819
00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:19,880
Speaker 1: but fan fiction specifically. I mean, unless you're talking about

820
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:24,279
Speaker 1: ladies hurt and dudes feelings by entering their fandom, talk

821
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:27,600
Speaker 1: about a murder, you're murdering. How I think this fandom

822
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:31,040
Speaker 1: should be otherwise? Yeah, I don't. I don't know. I

823
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:34,000
Speaker 1: don't know. And there is a lot of discomfort around

824
00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:37,240
Speaker 1: fandom and fan fiction to this day, which is about

825
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:40,400
Speaker 1: where this springs. As for instance, why are those zangus

826
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:44,160
Speaker 1: writing Harry Potter Pard all these women writing about sex

827
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:47,040
Speaker 1: and manly man fandoms? Its ruining? Are to's dirty, it's moral.

828
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:49,759
Speaker 1: These are all things that you'll hear I read in

829
00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:51,920
Speaker 1: plenty of places, and it kind of made me feel

830
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:54,279
Speaker 1: ashamed and embarrassed. Yeah, did you grow up thinking that

831
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:56,560
Speaker 1: what you were doing was gross and weird and like

832
00:44:56,800 --> 00:45:01,360
Speaker 1: for weird perverts, like antisocial perverts. Oh. I did luckily

833
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:04,040
Speaker 1: dodge that, but I did think it was really embarrassing

834
00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:07,279
Speaker 1: on something I should hide. I didn't think that if

835
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:09,960
Speaker 1: people found out. I was barely certain I would be

836
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:14,120
Speaker 1: mocked quite heavily. And it was difficult because again, my

837
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:17,080
Speaker 1: brothers were very much the kind as I've mentioned before

838
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:19,280
Speaker 1: on this show that would pick on you and would

839
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:21,440
Speaker 1: make fun of you. And we all shared the same computer,

840
00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:24,839
Speaker 1: and I tried for so long to hide what I

841
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:27,600
Speaker 1: was doing. Luckily, I don't think they ever figured it out.

842
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:29,600
Speaker 1: I wonder what they thought I was printing out though

843
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:34,800
Speaker 1: lots of recipes, yes, for all the all the cooking

844
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:37,359
Speaker 1: that I did not do at that age. But this, yeah,

845
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:41,160
Speaker 1: this kind of brings us to talking about women and

846
00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:46,080
Speaker 1: fan fiction and representation and sort of society's apparent fear

847
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:54,000
Speaker 1: and discomfort with that. It's the dreaded fan fic trope,

848
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:58,160
Speaker 1: the cliffhanger. But never fear. We have a part two,

849
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:02,200
Speaker 1: and uh, we have so much to say about fan fiction,

850
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:05,680
Speaker 1: So please join us for the second part, coming to

851
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:15,520
Speaker 1: your ears soon. M m h m hm hm