1 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:07,920 Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My 2 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:11,040 Speaker 1: name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and we're 3 00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:13,600 Speaker 1: going into the vault. This is not a Saturday Vault episode. 4 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:15,320 Speaker 1: We're airing it in place of one of our regular 5 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind episodes this week, just to 6 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:22,439 Speaker 1: cover some time off. This episode originally aired on July nineteen, 7 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:26,800 Speaker 1: and it was called Electric microbe Land. This was suggested 8 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 1: as a as a vault episode by a listener not 9 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:32,839 Speaker 1: too long ago. Yeah, so yeah again. Originally this one 10 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:35,800 Speaker 1: was a Summer of ten, but we're giving it to 11 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 1: you again on the very last day of of So 12 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:47,159 Speaker 1: let's have a listen. Enjoy this regifting Welcome Stuff to 13 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:49,239 Speaker 1: Blow Your Mind, a production of I Heart Radios. How 14 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 1: Stuff Works. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. 15 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:00,960 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. Can 16 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 1: we figured we'd start off today talking about our favorite 17 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:08,400 Speaker 1: electricity monsters. Robert, what's your favorite electricity monster? Oh? You know, my, my, my, 18 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:11,959 Speaker 1: just gut instinct answers to go with Blanca from Street Fighter. 19 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 1: You know, he's the green skinned and I was, I was. 20 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:17,200 Speaker 1: I looked into this a little bit. I was never 21 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:21,400 Speaker 1: sure why he had green skin. Apparently some alleged backstory 22 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 1: involving chlorophyll um, but I don't know. He ends up 23 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 1: with he's like a beast creature, a beast man with 24 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:32,040 Speaker 1: green skin and like bright orange hair, wearing board shorts, 25 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 1: wearing board shorts and just kind of doing this this, 26 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:40,320 Speaker 1: this kind of hulking uh pose bent over, and then 27 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 1: he can produce electricity. Basically has the powers since he's 28 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:46,399 Speaker 1: kind kind of a you know, on amlogum of various 29 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:50,279 Speaker 1: Amazonian things. He has the powers of an electric eagle, 30 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 1: and so he can shock his opponents that way. That's 31 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 1: a good one. Uh. There there are a few really 32 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 1: good electricity movies. By really good, I mean really bad 33 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 1: from the nineteen eighties and nine indies. Did you ever 34 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 1: see the Pulse? I don't think I ever did. I 35 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 1: think there was another horror movie called Pulse, which was 36 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 1: about something else. So this one was about. Uh It's 37 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:13,360 Speaker 1: like some family living in a house and like a 38 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:17,120 Speaker 1: regular suburban neighborhood in California in the nineteen eighties, and 39 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:20,799 Speaker 1: an evil burst of electricity goes throughout goes out through 40 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:24,120 Speaker 1: the mains. Uh. I don't remember if there's like an 41 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:27,080 Speaker 1: evil storm or like an alien arrives or something. But 42 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 1: for some reason, there's this pulse of of killer electricity 43 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:32,520 Speaker 1: and it goes into their house and it turns all 44 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:36,120 Speaker 1: the appliances against them, so the TV starts trying to 45 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 1: kill them and everything, a real maximum over drive scenario, 46 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:42,639 Speaker 1: but it's like it's sold as like the the malevolence 47 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:46,519 Speaker 1: is delivered directly through the electrical wires the wrong voltage 48 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 1: or something. Yeah, I guess so. Yeah, I was thinking 49 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:51,400 Speaker 1: about this, like, what are some other examples of electric 50 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 1: creatures or humanoids? And I mean, obviously I thought of 51 00:02:56,240 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 1: of of electric Christopher Lambert from from Mortal Calm that 52 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 1: another fighting game. Yeah, but but so many, So often 53 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 1: is the case you see individuals with some sort of 54 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 1: pyrotechnic mobility, you know, Like one of a film that 55 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:15,320 Speaker 1: we've talked about before has been the Toby Hooper film, 56 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:19,520 Speaker 1: in which Brad Dorriff played a like a pyromaniac who 57 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:22,079 Speaker 1: could catch things on fire with his brain. He's got 58 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 1: like like pyro kinesis, but he doesn't want it. He's 59 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 1: not like a you know, a villain out there like 60 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:31,800 Speaker 1: Piro and the X Men just throwing fireballs wherever he wants. 61 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 1: It's more like every he's kind of like the Hulk. 62 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 1: He's like fire Hulk. Every time he gets upset, he 63 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 1: starts catching things on fire. But he also like burns 64 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 1: the heck out of himself too, which wasn't a nice twist. 65 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 1: And of course Brad Dorriff is wonderful and in that 66 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 1: film there are at least portions of it where he's 67 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 1: it's it's a rare film or Brad Dorriff is the 68 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 1: lead and he's sort of playing a regular human in 69 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 1: some of the scenes. So it's interesting to see. But 70 00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 1: but so often is the case you see fire based 71 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 1: powers in these characters and creatures as opposed to electric 72 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:05,720 Speaker 1: based powers. And it's kind of weird when you think 73 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 1: about it, because, as we'll discussing this episode, electricity is 74 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 1: more tied in with biology than fire. And even from 75 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 1: the human perspective perspective, you know who among us has 76 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 1: not harnessed the power of electricity by by walking across 77 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:24,160 Speaker 1: a carpeted floor in the wintertime and then shocking somebody 78 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:26,919 Speaker 1: with a touch. You do that on purpose? I have 79 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 1: in the past done it on purpose. Yes, yeah, but 80 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 1: it's pretty not announce of guilt on your face. Well, 81 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 1: one of one of the things I do like to 82 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 1: do when it gets cold, when the conditions are just right, 83 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 1: have my son go down a curly slide, build up 84 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 1: static electricity, and then give me a high five on 85 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 1: the way down. And at times it has been stiff 86 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:51,280 Speaker 1: enough to like leave a numbness in my hand when 87 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:54,360 Speaker 1: you feel it in your wrist, kind of in the bone. Creepy, 88 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:58,160 Speaker 1: real shocking power. I don't know if there's ever been 89 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:02,680 Speaker 1: like an actually really scar airy electricity monster movie. The 90 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:04,359 Speaker 1: other main one I was thinking of is one of 91 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 1: my favorite cheesy, mid mid career West Craven movies, which 92 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 1: is Shocker. I think that's from nineteen or so and 93 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:14,839 Speaker 1: it's gotten Mitch Peleggi or Poleggie, the guy who plays 94 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 1: Skinner on the X Files. Uh. He plays the villain. 95 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 1: He's like a serial killer who does some like evil 96 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 1: black magic ritual to turn himself into electricity after he 97 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:27,880 Speaker 1: gets killed in the electric chair. That's right. I remember 98 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 1: saying I never saw it, but I remember seeing the 99 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:31,359 Speaker 1: boxes for it, and he's in an electric chair on 100 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 1: the You should see it sometime. It's a laugh riot, 101 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:38,600 Speaker 1: and he's, oh, he's just like acting, I mean beat 102 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 1: galaxies beyond normal levels of acting. Is uh would you 103 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 1: say it's an electric performance? I would say he is 104 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 1: a live wire. But yeah, so I think you're right 105 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:54,560 Speaker 1: about the idea that maybe electric monsters should be more 106 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 1: biologically intuitive than pyrokinetic or fire throwing monsters or even 107 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 1: fire breathing wagons, because you know, it shouldn't come as 108 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 1: any surprise that the use of electricity by living organisms 109 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 1: predates the technological uses predates you know, Tesla and medicine 110 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 1: or even Franklin and Galvani and all that. Like, all 111 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 1: kinds of animals use electricity in various ways. Now they're 112 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:22,159 Speaker 1: they're really noticeable charismatic uses of electricity, like how sharks 113 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:25,680 Speaker 1: and rays have electric sensory organs known as the ampullae 114 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:28,800 Speaker 1: of Lorenzini, which they used to sense very faint electric 115 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:32,840 Speaker 1: currents transmitted through water by potential prey animals. And then 116 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 1: you've got the electrogenic organisms that like generally aquatic organisms 117 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 1: that emit strong electric currents maybe just stun prey or 118 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 1: two deploys a defensive weapon. And these would include things 119 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 1: like electric fish, electric catfish and rays. Yeah. Yeah, the 120 00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:52,560 Speaker 1: electric eel is certainly the electric animal par excellence. Uh, 121 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:55,920 Speaker 1: though it's always worth reminding everyone, and it's not really 122 00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:59,160 Speaker 1: an eel. It has more it's more related to a catfish. Oh, 123 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:01,039 Speaker 1: I don't think I knew that. Well, I didn't know 124 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 1: they were electric catfish, but I didn't know the eel 125 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 1: was one. Right, Yeah, I mean you look at it 126 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:07,560 Speaker 1: if you' you know, fortunate enough to see one in 127 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 1: a tank somewhere or in the wild. Uh, you know, 128 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 1: you're gonna notice that it doesn't really look like an eel. 129 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 1: It's uh, it's it's it's a very curious looking creature. 130 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 1: Have you ever seen a de fleshed eel skull? Oh? 131 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 1: I don't know that I have. It is one of them. 132 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 1: Is usually don't leave them on when I go. You should. 133 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 1: You should look up an eel skull. Sometimes it might 134 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 1: be different for different species, but at least some eel 135 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 1: skulls are like the most metal thing in nature. It's amazing. 136 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 1: But anyway, we today we wanted to to think about 137 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 1: electric organisms. But instead of focusing on these larger organisms 138 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 1: that use electricity maybe in a sensory capacity or as 139 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:48,120 Speaker 1: a weapon of some sort. We wanted to go down 140 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 1: to zoom in with the microscope and to take a 141 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 1: look at the world of micro organisms that deal in 142 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 1: the currency of the Holy fire, the amber, the electricity. 143 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 1: So I just wanted to start by saying by giving 144 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:03,320 Speaker 1: a shout out that I got the idea to do 145 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 1: this episode after I read a really interesting article a 146 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:08,960 Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago in the New York Times by 147 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 1: previous stuff to blow your mind. Guest Carl Zimmer, Oh, yes, yeah, 148 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:14,640 Speaker 1: that was a tremendous episode. It was great to chatting 149 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 1: with him. I'd love to have him back on the show. 150 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:18,360 Speaker 1: Sometimes we should see about that. If we're getting back 151 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:20,320 Speaker 1: on the show, then he becomes a friend of the show. 152 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 1: That's the way it works two appearances. Two appearances make 153 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:25,240 Speaker 1: you a friend of the show. So just one is previous. Guest. 154 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 1: I almost said friend of the show, but I didn't 155 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 1: want to presume. I think those are the rules. Yes, 156 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:34,319 Speaker 1: uh so, of course. Electricity. You know, it's generally thought 157 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 1: of as the flow of electrons. You might have other 158 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:39,040 Speaker 1: ways of defining it. You could maybe define it other 159 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:42,160 Speaker 1: ways in terms of electrical potential, like a positive or 160 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:44,719 Speaker 1: negative charge, but Generally, if you've got current, if you've 161 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:47,679 Speaker 1: got electrons flowing that, you think of that as some 162 00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:51,560 Speaker 1: form of electricity. And there are ways in which the 163 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:56,840 Speaker 1: metabolism of our bodies could be considered electric. For example, 164 00:08:57,160 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 1: what is actually happening when we breathe. I don't know 165 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:03,439 Speaker 1: if I've ever thought of it quite this way before, 166 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:05,880 Speaker 1: but I was reading an article in New Scientists from 167 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 1: July which quotes the u c l A microbiologists Kenneth 168 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:15,079 Speaker 1: Nielsen in characterizing the most basic biochemistry of life as 169 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:18,559 Speaker 1: a flow of electrons. So basically, think about it like this. 170 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:22,679 Speaker 1: You eat carbon based compounds, you take in that chemical energy, 171 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:26,960 Speaker 1: and that's gonna be molecules like sugars, and these molecules, 172 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 1: these carbon based compounds like sugars, have excess electrons, and 173 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 1: then cells in the body break down those compounds and 174 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 1: they pass on the extra electrons through a series of 175 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:41,120 Speaker 1: chemical reactions that power the body, and part by making 176 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:44,160 Speaker 1: a dinascene triphosphate or a t P, which is the 177 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:49,079 Speaker 1: chemical energy transport molecule that that captures the energy obtained 178 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 1: through the breakdown of food, and then he uses it 179 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:54,680 Speaker 1: to power things that happen inside ourselves. I've I've sometimes 180 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:58,680 Speaker 1: seen a TP characterized as an energy storage molecule, but 181 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 1: that's not quite right. That would be more like fats 182 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:03,600 Speaker 1: or sugars or something. A TP is like, it's like 183 00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:06,080 Speaker 1: a car for energy, you know, it carries it from 184 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 1: one place to another in the cell. And apparently the 185 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:11,960 Speaker 1: flow of electrons is an indispensable part of making that 186 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:16,280 Speaker 1: a TP that powers our cells. But eventually the extra electrons, 187 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:18,920 Speaker 1: since they're flowing, they've got to go somewhere at the 188 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 1: end of this chain of chemical reactions. You can't just 189 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:25,120 Speaker 1: keep building up extra electrons in the body until you 190 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 1: become a humanliding jar or you become the guy from 191 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:30,760 Speaker 1: Shocker and you just electrocute people by touching them. So 192 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:34,479 Speaker 1: you have to pass on the electrons onto a molecule 193 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 1: that will accept them. And in our case, that molecule 194 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:40,839 Speaker 1: is oxygen. You breathe in the oxygen, and that oxygen 195 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:43,120 Speaker 1: we breathe in goes around to the body, to the cells, 196 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:46,559 Speaker 1: and it accepts those extra electrons that are the waste 197 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 1: product of our metabolism. Uh and it bonds with carbon molecules, 198 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 1: and then you breathe out this waste product as CEO 199 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 1: two And to quote from this researcher Kenneth Nielsen, as 200 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:00,920 Speaker 1: as quoted in in New Scientist, that's the way we 201 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 1: make all our energy, and it's the same for every 202 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 1: organism on this planet. Electrons must flow in order for 203 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 1: energy to be gained. This is why when someone suffocates 204 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 1: another person, they're dead within minutes. You have stopped the 205 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 1: supply of oxygen, so the electrons can no longer flow. 206 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:20,040 Speaker 1: So choking somebody is kind of like it's like putting 207 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:23,520 Speaker 1: a resistor in the electric circuit. That's interesting. I mean, 208 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:25,040 Speaker 1: this is all getting down to the fact that we're 209 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:29,319 Speaker 1: all essentially bioelectric organisms. Yeah, that's exactly right, and it's 210 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:32,319 Speaker 1: not just us, Like this is basically the rule for 211 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:35,439 Speaker 1: all kinds of life forms, from humans to coconut crabs 212 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:39,680 Speaker 1: to lots of single celled organisms. Pretty much every organism 213 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:43,160 Speaker 1: needs to create an electron flow by taking in food 214 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:46,440 Speaker 1: with excess electrons and then running that through a series 215 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 1: of chemical reactions to extract usable energy for cells, and 216 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:53,800 Speaker 1: then dumping those electrons out into some kind of electron 217 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 1: accepting waste bucket like oxygen molecules. And this is even 218 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:01,760 Speaker 1: true for bacteria where from any species, oxygen must be 219 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:04,839 Speaker 1: present as this terminal receptor for the electrons at the 220 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:09,440 Speaker 1: end of the metabolic line. But there are some prokaryotic organisms, 221 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:14,480 Speaker 1: single celled organisms that can't or don't use oxygen, and 222 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 1: these are known as anaerobic bacteria, and they live in 223 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 1: places where oxygen doesn't reach or where oxygen is very limited. 224 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:25,640 Speaker 1: And the examples of this might be places like deep 225 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:28,960 Speaker 1: in the sediment along a river, or buried in a 226 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:32,960 Speaker 1: sea bed, or even ever a deep underground in oil wells. 227 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:35,320 Speaker 1: I mean, try to imagine that that far underground, that 228 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:38,440 Speaker 1: like life is thriving in some way. We've also talked 229 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:44,960 Speaker 1: about them thriving in some human created sewer environments. Absolutely, yeah, yeah, yeah, 230 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:48,559 Speaker 1: all all these environments, especially these environments that are cut 231 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:51,800 Speaker 1: off from the surface by by mud or sediment or 232 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:55,800 Speaker 1: even by vast expanses of dead rock. So if the 233 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:59,560 Speaker 1: electrons have to flow for life to go on, how 234 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:04,200 Speaker 1: do these anaerobic bacteria survive without oxygen molecules to accept 235 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:07,640 Speaker 1: the excess electrons at the end of the metabolism and 236 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:10,160 Speaker 1: basically to breathe out. How you know, where do the 237 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:12,400 Speaker 1: electrons go when they're done? With them. So here's where 238 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 1: we get to a bacterial discovery story. So in the 239 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:19,679 Speaker 1: mid nineteen eighties, I think around nine seven, the American 240 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 1: microbiologist Derek Lovely was out pulling up samples of sediment 241 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:28,760 Speaker 1: from the Potomac River. And one of these samples from 242 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:32,439 Speaker 1: the Potomac River, it was around Washington, d C. Contained 243 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:35,760 Speaker 1: one of these weird single celled organisms. It was a 244 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:41,720 Speaker 1: bacterium called geo bacter metalla reducens. And like other bacteria, 245 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:46,000 Speaker 1: this bacterium would begin the electron flow of its metabolism 246 00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:51,199 Speaker 1: by consuming organic compounds that had excess electrons. For example, ethanol, 247 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:54,120 Speaker 1: which is alcohol. So there's some ethanol in its environment. 248 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:57,880 Speaker 1: It can eat that, but it would end its metabolism 249 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:02,280 Speaker 1: by passing the excess electrons off into iron oxides, which 250 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:04,880 Speaker 1: are rust So this is a life form that can 251 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:10,400 Speaker 1: survive by eating grain, alcohol and breathing out rusty iron. Yeah. 252 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:13,320 Speaker 1: I've read and Lovely some of some of his papers 253 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:16,280 Speaker 1: that when they're working within the lab, they essentially just 254 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:20,040 Speaker 1: feeded vinegar. Yeah, that that's that's all it requires. Wow, 255 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:22,400 Speaker 1: So if you have to breathe out into rusty iron, 256 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:26,440 Speaker 1: would you rather survive by eating only grain alcohol or 257 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:30,760 Speaker 1: by eating only vinegar. Um. I feel like vinegar from 258 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:34,480 Speaker 1: for me, vinegar would probably be healthier for you for 259 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:37,360 Speaker 1: men is my personal choice, but I am I'm not 260 00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:40,800 Speaker 1: a microbe. So just as an interesting side note, in 261 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 1: this process, the bacteria, Carl Zimmer notes the sent this 262 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:48,920 Speaker 1: article to bacteria help transform the regular old iron oxides 263 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:52,840 Speaker 1: the rust particles in their environment into the naturally fair 264 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:56,080 Speaker 1: magnetic mineral known as magnetite. So that's like, you know, 265 00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:59,880 Speaker 1: the strong natural magnetic rock you might find in sediments 266 00:14:59,920 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 1: or around the world, and these bacteria helped produce that 267 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:07,240 Speaker 1: magnetite by by by pushing off these electrons into it, 268 00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:09,840 Speaker 1: which sort of magnetizes it. Now we've been speaking kind 269 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:14,680 Speaker 1: of metaphorically by calling this bacterial process breathing, because it's 270 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 1: not breathing in the exact same way we do. Like 271 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:22,240 Speaker 1: the bacteria don't have respiratory systems with lungs and alveola 272 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:26,200 Speaker 1: and all that. We breathe by sucking in oxygen and 273 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:29,040 Speaker 1: then transporting it around our bodies to the cells where 274 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:31,840 Speaker 1: it needs to go, and then breathing out the molecular 275 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:35,280 Speaker 1: waste products of our metabolism through the same gas exchange 276 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:38,000 Speaker 1: system in the lungs. But the bacteria don't have lungs. 277 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 1: They don't suck rust particles into the body to allow 278 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 1: the electrons to attach to them. Uh, and so what's 279 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 1: going on there? Like according to Carl Zimmer's article, it 280 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:51,640 Speaker 1: took Lovely and his colleague Dr John Stolts in their 281 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:55,840 Speaker 1: labs years to figure out how this respiration process was 282 00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:59,520 Speaker 1: taking place. And what they discovered was that instead of 283 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 1: like sucking in the rust particles and breathing them out, 284 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:09,520 Speaker 1: geobacter exhaled by putting out electric wires. Yeah, this is amazing. 285 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:14,520 Speaker 1: And of course when we're saying wires, we're talking about microfilaments. Yeah, 286 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:17,400 Speaker 1: but they do, in a way function like electric wires. 287 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:20,920 Speaker 1: I mean, they're they're conductive. They are long, filamentous kind 288 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:25,160 Speaker 1: of conductive material that is there to transmit a flow 289 00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:28,720 Speaker 1: of electrons between potentials. So you've got to build up 290 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 1: of electrons as a waste product in the bacterium, and 291 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:36,040 Speaker 1: then you've got a lower potential thing out there that 292 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 1: can accept them, like maybe a deposit of iron oxide, 293 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:42,240 Speaker 1: and you pump the electrons out through this wire to 294 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:45,920 Speaker 1: the iron oxide outside the cell. Yeah, and we're these 295 00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:48,680 Speaker 1: things are tiny too. We're talking about like three nanometers 296 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:52,040 Speaker 1: in diameter. Yeah, extremely too. Though they can get pretty 297 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:54,720 Speaker 1: long without Yeah, we can get pretty long in some 298 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 1: cases some cases. And then we'll get into other species later. 299 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:01,560 Speaker 1: But there are species with with with a filaments. Yeah. 300 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:05,280 Speaker 1: Uh So, when you're a geobacter and you since the 301 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:09,280 Speaker 1: presence of iron oxide and your surroundings, basically what it 302 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:12,400 Speaker 1: seems like you do is you sprout out these microscopic 303 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:16,639 Speaker 1: little filaments, each one known as a pealis plural peely 304 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:21,320 Speaker 1: and bacterial peely. Are fascinating in other respects too, because, 305 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:24,359 Speaker 1: for one thing, they play a role in the bacterial 306 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:28,159 Speaker 1: process known as horizontal gene transfer. And we've done a 307 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:32,680 Speaker 1: podcast on this before. This is a really interesting phenomenon. Basically, 308 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:36,959 Speaker 1: bacteria they don't have sex in the way that like 309 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:42,639 Speaker 1: sexually reproducing eukaryotic animals do. Write they reproduce a sexually, 310 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:45,800 Speaker 1: meaning they make exact copies of themselves in a process 311 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:49,719 Speaker 1: called binary fission. They split off and create two daughter cells, 312 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:53,520 Speaker 1: not by mating with other individuals and combining their DNA 313 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:57,240 Speaker 1: to create an ad mixed offspring. But despite this, despite 314 00:17:57,280 --> 00:18:01,919 Speaker 1: them not having sexual reproduction. Bacteria do engage in something 315 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:05,320 Speaker 1: kind of like sex, and this is this process of 316 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:10,320 Speaker 1: horizontal gene transfer where bacteria can meet up and share 317 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:13,840 Speaker 1: genetic material between one another. And this doesn't always work 318 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:15,880 Speaker 1: out great for us, because, for example, it is one 319 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:19,199 Speaker 1: of the main methods by which bacteria acquire DNA for 320 00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:24,240 Speaker 1: antibiotic resistance. We just did an episode of our other podcast, Invention, 321 00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:28,520 Speaker 1: about the invention of antibiotics and antibiotics are you know, 322 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 1: a miraculous invention of the twentieth century. But one of 323 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:35,040 Speaker 1: the big problems with them is that over time, the 324 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:39,560 Speaker 1: diseases that we're fighting get better at overcoming these medicines. Yeah, 325 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:40,639 Speaker 1: I think. I think the way we put it in 326 00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:45,440 Speaker 1: that episode is with with penicillin and another antibiotics, we're 327 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:48,399 Speaker 1: we're stealing a weapon from the you know, the eons 328 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 1: old war between fungi and bacterium and uh, and we've 329 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:57,880 Speaker 1: stole the weapon, but the but the war continues on 330 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:02,120 Speaker 1: and the the the the evolution of their warfare continues. Yeah, 331 00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:06,120 Speaker 1: and in the way we use the fungal weapon sort 332 00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:10,480 Speaker 1: of accelerates the arms race, like provoked, it's in a 333 00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:13,800 Speaker 1: Cold War style like provokes the other side to uh 334 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:16,080 Speaker 1: make go with a with a build up, you know, 335 00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:18,360 Speaker 1: an arms build up, when that seems to be what's 336 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:21,359 Speaker 1: happening on the bacterial side. Now we stole like a 337 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 1: fungal catapult, but now we're quickly advancing into the age 338 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:28,919 Speaker 1: of where a fungal tribute SHA would be a more 339 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:33,000 Speaker 1: appropriate That's right. We have to find those those fungal 340 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:36,480 Speaker 1: tributes or develop them ourselves. I hope we do. But 341 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:39,240 Speaker 1: for the but for the bacteria to share their own 342 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:42,360 Speaker 1: tribute shape plans. What one of the things they do 343 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:46,760 Speaker 1: is this horizontal gene transfer process. Specifically this process known 344 00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:50,399 Speaker 1: as conjugation, where to bacteria meet up and they're like, 345 00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:53,639 Speaker 1: let's hook up, and they extend a PEALSS between the 346 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:57,160 Speaker 1: donor bacterium and the recipient bacterium and this little hair 347 00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 1: like filament hooks them together so they can share plasmids, 348 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:05,440 Speaker 1: which are little segments of DNA and peely also enhanced 349 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:08,920 Speaker 1: the virulence of bacteria by helping them bind two cells 350 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:11,240 Speaker 1: in the host body. And this is the case in 351 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:14,440 Speaker 1: disease causing strains of bacteria like strepped A caucus or 352 00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:17,960 Speaker 1: an E. Coli. The pelists can kind of hook them 353 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:21,320 Speaker 1: onto the cells lining your the inside of your throat 354 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:23,320 Speaker 1: or in your gut, or wherever it is they're trying 355 00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:27,480 Speaker 1: to infect. But in the case of Geobacter, the researchers 356 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:31,720 Speaker 1: who worked with Geobacter originally concluded that the peely we're 357 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:34,879 Speaker 1: being used for another purpose entirely, and that purpose was 358 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:40,320 Speaker 1: the off routing of electricity into electro receptive molecules in 359 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:44,280 Speaker 1: the environment. So to picture this as again, this is 360 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:46,960 Speaker 1: going to be a very crude metaphor, but imagine if 361 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:52,200 Speaker 1: you were to breathe instead of by sucking oxygen into 362 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:56,720 Speaker 1: your lungs and exhaling CEO two, by shooting electric wires 363 00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:59,640 Speaker 1: out of your mouths into the environment, which would then 364 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:02,840 Speaker 1: attack hatch to the toaster and the TV and pour 365 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:07,320 Speaker 1: waste electricity out of your lungs into those appliances. Oh, 366 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:10,240 Speaker 1: that's pretty good. That sounds like a good electric alien 367 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:12,639 Speaker 1: creature for a future film or a pass film, I 368 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 1: mean movies done. Yeah, I mean I can imagine Dan 369 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:18,840 Speaker 1: Ackroyd playing a character that does this, uh, you know, 370 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:21,879 Speaker 1: back in the nineties or so. Oh, you know, they're 371 00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:24,960 Speaker 1: one of those nineties like a kind of grimy computer 372 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:28,640 Speaker 1: monster movies. What was that one that Jamie Lee Curtis 373 00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:31,240 Speaker 1: was in about like a killer computer virus that like 374 00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:34,280 Speaker 1: just puts gross wires everywhere. Oh yeah, this was I 375 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:36,439 Speaker 1: think Donald Sutherland was in it. Yeah, it's not a 376 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:38,679 Speaker 1: ship or something. It was really bad. It was like 377 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:40,560 Speaker 1: a sort of it was kind of a take on 378 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:45,080 Speaker 1: the thing, but with this this cybernetic blend of like 379 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:48,720 Speaker 1: wires and flesh. Uh yeah, yeah, it's like a computer 380 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:51,919 Speaker 1: virus that decides that Earth is that the humans are 381 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:55,400 Speaker 1: a pathogen and virus. I think you're a pathogeny. It's 382 00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 1: called virus. Yeah, And I should notice a As a 383 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:00,520 Speaker 1: follow up to what I was just saying about the 384 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:05,640 Speaker 1: bacterial peely, it's not fully settled whether the Geobacter actually 385 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:09,200 Speaker 1: use peely as their electric wires, or whether they use 386 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:13,720 Speaker 1: peely exclusively. Karl Zimmer's article notes that the Yale physicist 387 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:19,000 Speaker 1: and Nikkil S. Malvankar and colleagues believe that instead the 388 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:24,960 Speaker 1: bacteria use dedicated wires made out of organic compounds called cytochromes, 389 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:28,360 Speaker 1: but the fact that Geobacter does pump electrons out through 390 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:31,760 Speaker 1: biological wires of some sort doesn't seem to be in dispute. 391 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:34,560 Speaker 1: It's just their different ideas about to what extent they're 392 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:37,800 Speaker 1: using different structures as the wires. All right, on that note, 393 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:39,320 Speaker 1: we're going to take a quick break, but we'll be 394 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:46,040 Speaker 1: right back. Than alright, we're back. So we've been talking 395 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:51,080 Speaker 1: about the idea of electroactive bacteria, bacteria that in some 396 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:56,720 Speaker 1: metaphorical since breathe by releasing excess electrons that are the 397 00:22:56,720 --> 00:23:01,359 Speaker 1: the end product of their metabolism into uh things in 398 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:04,840 Speaker 1: their environment, like little deposits of iron oxide. And they 399 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:08,480 Speaker 1: do this by sticking these wires out of their cells 400 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,399 Speaker 1: that that connect to things, and they can pump the 401 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 1: electricity out through those wires. But it doesn't stop there 402 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:19,879 Speaker 1: because researchers have also discovered that in some cases, the 403 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 1: electric wires put out by metal reducing bacteria like Geobacter 404 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:28,159 Speaker 1: would not just go out into iron oxide in the 405 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:31,480 Speaker 1: environment or into other metals in the environment, but sometimes 406 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:35,120 Speaker 1: these wires would go out and connect to other species 407 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:39,520 Speaker 1: of electroactive bacteria. And so the same way that Geobacter 408 00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:45,320 Speaker 1: metaphorically breathes by putting out electron flow, some species of 409 00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:50,480 Speaker 1: bacteria can metaphorically eat by taking in electron flow. And 410 00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:54,760 Speaker 1: this energy intake allows the bacteria to convert carbon dioxide 411 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:58,600 Speaker 1: into methane, kind of like how plants use direct energy 412 00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:01,439 Speaker 1: from the sunlight to how or the chemical reaction that 413 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:05,200 Speaker 1: turns carbon dioxide from the air into the sugars and 414 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:08,200 Speaker 1: the carbon compounds that make up the bodies of plants. 415 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:10,320 Speaker 1: When I'm sure if said in a million times on 416 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:12,840 Speaker 1: the show, but one of my favorite crazy facts about 417 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:15,680 Speaker 1: plants is they make their bodies from the air. They 418 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,800 Speaker 1: don't make their bodies from you know, the dirt or something, 419 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,719 Speaker 1: and that that it's it's the carbon from the carbon 420 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:26,040 Speaker 1: dioxide in the atmosphere that becomes the wood beings of 421 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:29,440 Speaker 1: air and sun basically totally well and to be fair 422 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 1: and like water from the ground and other minerals and stuff, 423 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:36,440 Speaker 1: but primarily, yes, primarily of air and sun. So yeah, 424 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:40,000 Speaker 1: So if these bacterial species that that do this, if 425 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:44,199 Speaker 1: they pair up, they can form these like cross networks 426 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:48,959 Speaker 1: of underground bacterial wires where one species feeds another with 427 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:53,879 Speaker 1: its waist electricity. So I was reading a BBC article 428 00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:58,800 Speaker 1: on electroactive bacteria by an author named Jasmine Fox Skelly, 429 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,760 Speaker 1: and this article mentioned that it was not long after 430 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:06,959 Speaker 1: loveliest discovery of the electrical properties of Geobacter that the 431 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:10,520 Speaker 1: u c l A microbiologist Kenneth Nielsen, who was quoted 432 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:13,040 Speaker 1: in that article earlier describing all of you know, the 433 00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:16,520 Speaker 1: respiration of life is the flow of electrons before Nielsen 434 00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:21,399 Speaker 1: found another electronic screening bacterium, this one in the Oneida 435 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:24,480 Speaker 1: Lake of New York State and published his findings in 436 00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:26,960 Speaker 1: the journal Science. And this was a very similar story, 437 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:30,560 Speaker 1: except the bacterium here was not geobacter. It was shoe 438 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:34,880 Speaker 1: and Ella on identis uh and and much the same 439 00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:39,879 Speaker 1: way that the geobacter metaphorically breathes iron oxide, this bacterium 440 00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:43,560 Speaker 1: breathe this oxygen when it's available, but when it's not, 441 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 1: it breathes manganese oxide, pumping electrons out into the external 442 00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:52,720 Speaker 1: deposits of the compound, though it can also pump electrons 443 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:56,800 Speaker 1: out into other metals like iron but um. Unlike Geobacter, 444 00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:01,240 Speaker 1: which uses some form of wire to canuct electricity, quote, 445 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:04,680 Speaker 1: she and Ella appears to shuttle electrons out of their 446 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:10,240 Speaker 1: cells using transport molecules called flavians and stepping stone proteins 447 00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:13,920 Speaker 1: embedded in the outer membrane called cytochromes. So there we've 448 00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:17,000 Speaker 1: got this cytochromes being involved again. So we're starting to 449 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:20,719 Speaker 1: build up a picture that there are many different ways 450 00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:24,680 Speaker 1: for bacteria to kind of breathe electrically or be electro 451 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:27,560 Speaker 1: active in one way or another. And these tend to 452 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:32,199 Speaker 1: be bacteria that that don't have access to air, or 453 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:35,160 Speaker 1: don't or only do this win they don't have access 454 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:39,600 Speaker 1: to air, and so so Carl Zimmer's article also discusses 455 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:43,320 Speaker 1: the work of Danish microbiologist Lars Peter Nielsen. And this 456 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:45,560 Speaker 1: is a different spelling of Nils different Nielson. You know, 457 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:48,120 Speaker 1: this is a two Nielsen night, but it's once an 458 00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:51,680 Speaker 1: in e A L and one's an in I E L. Personally, 459 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:53,399 Speaker 1: no offense to the other guy, but I'm more of 460 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:56,320 Speaker 1: an inn I E L kind of guy. Yeah, it 461 00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:59,840 Speaker 1: stands out a little bit more so. This guy, l 462 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:05,119 Speaker 1: Is Peter Nielsen, discovered an electrical bacterial ecosystem within the 463 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 1: mud from the Bay of our Hoosts. I hope I'm 464 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,879 Speaker 1: saying that right. It's a coastal area on the western 465 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:15,439 Speaker 1: side of the main peninsula of Denmarks are roos A 466 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:18,760 Speaker 1: A R h U s. So basically, within a core 467 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:24,440 Speaker 1: of mud sample here, you'd have bacteria lower down down 468 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:29,359 Speaker 1: in the mud with anaerobic metabolism. Again, that means oxygen free. 469 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:32,920 Speaker 1: They don't need oxygen to live, and they would produce 470 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:36,800 Speaker 1: hydrogen sulfide is a waste product of their way of life. 471 00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,720 Speaker 1: And hydrogen sulfide we've talked about, I'm sure plenty of 472 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:41,840 Speaker 1: times on the show before. It's a it's a poisonous 473 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:44,880 Speaker 1: gas that smells like rotten eggs. It's just like it's 474 00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:48,119 Speaker 1: bad stuff. It smells like death. You'd commonly find it 475 00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:51,679 Speaker 1: in places where biological material is being decomposed in the 476 00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:56,080 Speaker 1: absence of oxygen, so again anaerobic decomposition. Like you will 477 00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:59,280 Speaker 1: smell this stuff wafting up out of swamps and out 478 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:02,240 Speaker 1: of sewers and stuff like that. It was one of 479 00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:05,120 Speaker 1: the bye products that people had to protect their faces 480 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:09,040 Speaker 1: from when they went down to fight the soap dragon fat. Yeah. 481 00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:11,360 Speaker 1: The fact, I don't know why I said protect their faces. 482 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:13,760 Speaker 1: I mean like wear gas maths, right, I don't mean 483 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:16,919 Speaker 1: like it's going to hurt their faces out at them 484 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:21,520 Speaker 1: and try to attachs. It's like the face hugger U No, No, 485 00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:24,480 Speaker 1: like it's like you don't want to breathe it um now, 486 00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:28,200 Speaker 1: of course, in order for you to smell hydrogen sulfide. 487 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:31,199 Speaker 1: In order to smell this nasty bacterial byproduct in a 488 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:34,600 Speaker 1: mar Shura sewer, the gas has to bubble up to 489 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:38,160 Speaker 1: the surface and waft out right. But Nielsen noticed that 490 00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:41,840 Speaker 1: it wasn't doing that in this mud. Something was consuming 491 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:45,680 Speaker 1: this poisonous waste product before it buoyed up to the 492 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,600 Speaker 1: surface of the mud and escaped. But as Karl Zimmer 493 00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:52,360 Speaker 1: writes in his article, if other bacteria below we're breaking 494 00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:55,840 Speaker 1: down this hydrogen sulfide without oxygen to aid in the 495 00:28:55,840 --> 00:29:00,160 Speaker 1: metabolic process, again, you would have an unacceptable build up 496 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:03,719 Speaker 1: of electrons, and so this excess electricity would have to 497 00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:06,560 Speaker 1: go somewhere. And what they found is exactly what you 498 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:12,560 Speaker 1: might guess. The bacteria were extending biological electric wires built 499 00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:17,280 Speaker 1: out of thousands of cells surrounded by a conductive protein sheath. 500 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:20,480 Speaker 1: Uh kind of like the you know, the sheath you 501 00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:23,120 Speaker 1: might see on a copper wire to protect it, except 502 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:25,360 Speaker 1: it's the other way around. In this case. The sheath 503 00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:28,040 Speaker 1: is what's conducting the electricity. So it's kind of like 504 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:30,480 Speaker 1: if you had like plastic surrounded by copper. I guess 505 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:32,840 Speaker 1: which would be a bad design. For a wire, but 506 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:36,320 Speaker 1: it works in this case, and these wires are known 507 00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:41,920 Speaker 1: as cable bacteria. The cable bacteria allow the waste electricity 508 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 1: to flow out to the surface, and once the electrons 509 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:48,960 Speaker 1: reach the surface, there you've got surface bacteria which have 510 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:53,600 Speaker 1: access to oxygen, unlike the bacteria below because they're on 511 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:57,440 Speaker 1: the surface of course. So these bacteria use the electricity 512 00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:01,640 Speaker 1: to cause a chemical reaction between oxygen and hydrogen, the 513 00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:05,320 Speaker 1: waste product of which is water and quote from Karl's 514 00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:10,400 Speaker 1: article quote and cable bacteria grow to astonishing densities. One 515 00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:14,360 Speaker 1: square inch of sediment may contain as much as eight 516 00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:19,200 Speaker 1: miles of cables. Dr Nielsen eventually learned to spot cable 517 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:22,960 Speaker 1: bacteria with the naked eye. Their wires look like spider 518 00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:26,840 Speaker 1: silk reflecting the sun. Beautiful, and you can look at 519 00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:29,280 Speaker 1: pictures of this. Actually I agree, they do look kind 520 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:33,000 Speaker 1: of like spider silk. They're kind of, uh, these glistening, 521 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:36,600 Speaker 1: almost invisible filaments that can kind of catch the light 522 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:41,480 Speaker 1: in certain ways. Very beautiful. But one cool thing that 523 00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:44,720 Speaker 1: I guess we have to consider is they're discovering that 524 00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:49,640 Speaker 1: these electroactive bacteria are found all over the place. They're 525 00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:54,520 Speaker 1: abundant in ecosystems throughout the world. And given how abundant 526 00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:59,000 Speaker 1: these electroactive bacteria are, it's not inconceivable that they play 527 00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:02,520 Speaker 1: a major role in regulating various forms of geochemistry, like 528 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:05,160 Speaker 1: maybe regulating what kinds of minerals you would find in 529 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:09,720 Speaker 1: the top soil producing magnetite, maybe regulating the chemistry of 530 00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:13,400 Speaker 1: the atmosphere, or regulating the chemistry of the oceans. Right, So, 531 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:15,600 Speaker 1: I mean other tay come here is that this is 532 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:19,200 Speaker 1: not just some rare, obscure thing that you encountering only 533 00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:23,040 Speaker 1: like you know, some sort of bizarre extreme environment. But 534 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:25,720 Speaker 1: they're they're they're found all over and could have a 535 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:28,960 Speaker 1: very important role. Now, primarily the examples we've been looking 536 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:32,000 Speaker 1: at so far have been bacteria that sort of pump 537 00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:36,200 Speaker 1: out electricity in order to metaphorically breathe. You know, the 538 00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:40,160 Speaker 1: electricity is this waste product, so the extra electrons have 539 00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:43,360 Speaker 1: to be disposed of and to something that will accept them. 540 00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:45,959 Speaker 1: But we already mentioned that it does go both ways. 541 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:49,880 Speaker 1: Like also mentioned in Fox Skellies article for the BBC 542 00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:53,720 Speaker 1: is the idea that um that scientists have been finding 543 00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:59,560 Speaker 1: more bacteria that simply are able to consume pure electricity 544 00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:02,160 Speaker 1: that can assume electrons when they need to, and she 545 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:06,200 Speaker 1: gives the example of a University of Cincinnati microbiologists named 546 00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:09,440 Speaker 1: in net Row who's found several bacterial species that live 547 00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:11,680 Speaker 1: on the ocean floor and apparently they can live off 548 00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:15,200 Speaker 1: of pure electrical current if they need to. It's not 549 00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:19,200 Speaker 1: that they naturally make make their lives this way, but 550 00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:21,480 Speaker 1: it seems like this is something that they are able 551 00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:26,600 Speaker 1: to to sustain themselves without dying for a period of time. 552 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,200 Speaker 1: So if I understand correctly, this is different than an 553 00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:32,880 Speaker 1: organism that just like thrives on pure electricity with no food. 554 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:36,600 Speaker 1: But there there is even evidence of, like you know, 555 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:41,400 Speaker 1: we were talking earlier about these relationships between electroactive organisms 556 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:45,160 Speaker 1: and one bacterium having electricity as a waste product and 557 00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 1: then routing it to a bacterium that will accept it 558 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:51,760 Speaker 1: as a as an incoming energy product. And there's even 559 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:56,200 Speaker 1: evidence of like cross species or cross organism type electrical 560 00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 1: grids spanning different kingdoms of life, and this example being 561 00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:05,000 Speaker 1: the electrical cooperation between bacteria and archaea in deep ocean 562 00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:08,920 Speaker 1: floor habitats that are rich with methane. Uh to to 563 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:13,000 Speaker 1: quote from Fox Skellies article. The archaea feed on electrons 564 00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:17,400 Speaker 1: from methane, oxidizing the gas to generate carbonate. They then 565 00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:21,360 Speaker 1: pass the electrons onto their partner bacteria along the nano wires, 566 00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:25,200 Speaker 1: which act like power cables. Finally, the bacteria deposit the 567 00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:28,960 Speaker 1: electrons onto sulfate, producing energy that the cell can use 568 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:32,080 Speaker 1: in the process. And so we don't know how far 569 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:35,720 Speaker 1: back these types of relationships go, but it's easy to 570 00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:40,400 Speaker 1: imagine these these types of cooperation evolving billions of years ago, 571 00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:44,640 Speaker 1: especially before Earth's atmosphere underwent the Great Poisoning when all 572 00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:47,560 Speaker 1: the oxygen showed up. All right, we're gonna take a 573 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:50,440 Speaker 1: quick break. When we come back, we're going to get 574 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:51,920 Speaker 1: to an area that a lot of you are probably 575 00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:54,480 Speaker 1: thinking about, Like, you know, if we have we're talking 576 00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:59,200 Speaker 1: about the organisms that they utilize electricity, they are producing 577 00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:02,520 Speaker 1: these these nano filaments. Uh, then there's got to be 578 00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:05,960 Speaker 1: a way that we could harness that power ourselves put 579 00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:07,680 Speaker 1: them to work. Yeah, that's exactly what we're going to 580 00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:13,520 Speaker 1: discuss when we come back. Than alright, we're back. So 581 00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:17,480 Speaker 1: if you're listening to this this podcast via some sort 582 00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:21,759 Speaker 1: of an electronic device, I mean, we electronics are are 583 00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:25,000 Speaker 1: kind of our thing right as a species. And so 584 00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:29,239 Speaker 1: it stands to reason that as we discover these these 585 00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:33,279 Speaker 1: these bacteria that are they're using electricity, that are that 586 00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:36,240 Speaker 1: are creating these little filaments that we eat envisioned ways 587 00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:39,759 Speaker 1: to again harness their power. I don't know about you. 588 00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:43,800 Speaker 1: I listen to my podcast by plugging directly into bacterial maps, 589 00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:45,680 Speaker 1: like I've got a I've got a big stroma light 590 00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:48,719 Speaker 1: in my house, and I just jack in, Well, that's 591 00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:52,799 Speaker 1: not that's not as as as crazy distant from the 592 00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:55,480 Speaker 1: reality the possible realities we're going to discuss, as one 593 00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:58,960 Speaker 1: might think, it's it's a little crazy, but but yeah, 594 00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:01,760 Speaker 1: when you when you think about the is actual electroactive 595 00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:04,360 Speaker 1: bacteria that there do seem to be some potentials just 596 00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:08,239 Speaker 1: one example, Like, there are all kinds of ideas where 597 00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:13,040 Speaker 1: people have talked about using electroactive bacteria as as potential 598 00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:15,799 Speaker 1: electrical sources, but one of the many ideas I came 599 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:20,200 Speaker 1: across was to use the electrical potential of geobacter for 600 00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:24,040 Speaker 1: small scale energy purposes. In Peru, so I was reading 601 00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:28,480 Speaker 1: a few articles from about how researchers at the University 602 00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:32,360 Speaker 1: of Engineering and Technology in Peru were pioneering a method 603 00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:37,879 Speaker 1: to draw usable electricity directly from the soil, specifically using 604 00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:42,359 Speaker 1: the outflow of electrons from the respiration of geobactors. Now 605 00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:44,759 Speaker 1: this is meaningful in in the context of what they 606 00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:48,120 Speaker 1: were doing in Peru, because some villages and dwellings in 607 00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:51,839 Speaker 1: the Peruvian rainforest don't have connections to the electrical grid. 608 00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:55,160 Speaker 1: Mini don't at the time uh they were doing this project. 609 00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:58,160 Speaker 1: The project leaders claimed that it was like forty two 610 00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:01,880 Speaker 1: of villages and in the rainforest did not have connections, 611 00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:04,840 Speaker 1: and those that do have connections are at risk to 612 00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:08,719 Speaker 1: lose power entirely when lines are knocked out by floods, 613 00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:12,399 Speaker 1: has happened in March, and so this means of course, 614 00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:15,280 Speaker 1: after it gets dark, people can't read, kids can't study 615 00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:18,359 Speaker 1: for school unless they use like kerosene lamps, which are 616 00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:21,120 Speaker 1: apparently unhealthy and are hard on the eyes. I can 617 00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:25,880 Speaker 1: imagine that. So this method, developed by ut EC in 618 00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:30,120 Speaker 1: partnership with a company called FCB Mayo, works to charge 619 00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:35,120 Speaker 1: batteries and power led lamps with a special bioelectric box. 620 00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:38,400 Speaker 1: And the box has a plant on top with roots 621 00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:42,440 Speaker 1: planted in the soil and then electrodes plunged into this 622 00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:46,160 Speaker 1: grid of little soil buckets that are full of geobactors, 623 00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:49,840 Speaker 1: and the metabolic interaction between the plant and the geobactors 624 00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:54,120 Speaker 1: generates excess electric charge in the soil, and that electric 625 00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:56,960 Speaker 1: charge gets routed up through the electrodes that are planted 626 00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:00,319 Speaker 1: in the soil, whisks those free electrons away to charge 627 00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:03,919 Speaker 1: of battery, which in turn powers the LED lamp. Now 628 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:07,440 Speaker 1: we're not sure how scalable this individual technology is, but 629 00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:09,960 Speaker 1: it shows the general principle that you can draw small, 630 00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:13,879 Speaker 1: at least small amounts of power or electricity directly from 631 00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:17,000 Speaker 1: electric bacteria and the soil when other power sources are 632 00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:20,640 Speaker 1: not readily available. And this seems possibly like an interesting 633 00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:24,040 Speaker 1: alternative to say, you know those small scale solar panels 634 00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:27,640 Speaker 1: that you see being used to power individual devices or lights, 635 00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:30,440 Speaker 1: you know, things like that, like various garden gnomes and 636 00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:34,160 Speaker 1: whatnot that light up or their garden gnomes they get power. Yeah, 637 00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:35,919 Speaker 1: I think so, you see, this is like the main 638 00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:38,440 Speaker 1: place I feel like one tends to see this sort 639 00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:41,200 Speaker 1: of technology, like little little lights that go in your 640 00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:43,640 Speaker 1: yard that have a little solar panel on them, you know. Uh, 641 00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:46,680 Speaker 1: but oh, I guess I've just never seen one mounted 642 00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:48,279 Speaker 1: in a gnome. But I see it now. It can 643 00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:51,120 Speaker 1: have red light up eyes. Yeah, I mean, I assume 644 00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:53,480 Speaker 1: there's a there has someone has had to have created 645 00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:56,120 Speaker 1: one with the numb But you know, it's one thing 646 00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:58,680 Speaker 1: to to power an led ed lamp. But I think 647 00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:02,120 Speaker 1: this does drive home that even if you're only talking 648 00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:05,759 Speaker 1: about producing such small amounts of electricity to power uh, 649 00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:09,080 Speaker 1: you know, you know, very low energy lighting effects, that 650 00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:11,919 Speaker 1: still can make a huge difference in the right circumstances. Yeah, 651 00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:15,040 Speaker 1: it can. And you can imagine using elements of this 652 00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:20,520 Speaker 1: bacterial electro biology in concert with other technologies UH, to 653 00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:23,319 Speaker 1: build up more capabilities. Like in his Times article, Carl 654 00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:27,600 Speaker 1: Zimmer mentions that a Cornell University researcher UH named Buzz 655 00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:30,520 Speaker 1: Barstow and colleagues are trying to figure out if bacteria 656 00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:33,239 Speaker 1: could be of use when paired with solar panels, so 657 00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:36,200 Speaker 1: not in place of them, but working in concert with them, 658 00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:38,960 Speaker 1: and the ideas that the solar panels would convert the 659 00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:42,480 Speaker 1: sunlight into electric current, which would then be routed into 660 00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:47,520 Speaker 1: bacterial wires down down to these colonies of bacterium called 661 00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:50,279 Speaker 1: shoe and Ella. That's the one I mentioned earlier that 662 00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:53,719 Speaker 1: was discovered in Lake Oneida shoe and ella, and that 663 00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:57,920 Speaker 1: could use the energy from the electrons to metabolize organic 664 00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:00,759 Speaker 1: compounds and turn it into fuel. This would really be 665 00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:04,480 Speaker 1: key for for carbon fixation. So so the studying question 666 00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:08,920 Speaker 1: here is two thousand nineteen study title Electrical Energy Storage 667 00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:12,840 Speaker 1: with Engineered Biological Systems, published in the Journal of Biological Engineering, 668 00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:15,400 Speaker 1: and we're essentially talking it kind of comes back to 669 00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:18,240 Speaker 1: the virus movie we're talking about because we're essentially talking 670 00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:22,920 Speaker 1: about a cybernetic energy storage system a synthesis of biological 671 00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:28,440 Speaker 1: and non biological electrochemical engineering. The authors point out that 672 00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:32,880 Speaker 1: non biological methods for using electricity for carbon fixation they 673 00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:36,920 Speaker 1: started to match and even exceed the capability of microbes, 674 00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:40,480 Speaker 1: but that biological methods are better at pumping out the 675 00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:44,440 Speaker 1: complex sort of complex molecules that are ultimately necessary for 676 00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:48,080 Speaker 1: biofuels and polymers. So it's it's kind of a way 677 00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:53,440 Speaker 1: to improve, you know, the photosynthesis in this situation, like 678 00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:57,400 Speaker 1: you think of it as like photosynthesis plus or photosynthesis 679 00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:00,680 Speaker 1: two point oh. So it's like making in our official tree, 680 00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:03,480 Speaker 1: except it's a solar panel and a bunch of bacteria. Yeah, 681 00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:07,880 Speaker 1: well yeah, it's like it's it's part bacteria, part solar 682 00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:12,200 Speaker 1: system technology and uh and and the results, yeah, can 683 00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:15,240 Speaker 1: could could help with carbon fixation. Yeah. Another thing Carl 684 00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:18,480 Speaker 1: mentions is that the electrical bacterial filaments could be used 685 00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:22,440 Speaker 1: as some form of sensors, like a little little tiny 686 00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:26,759 Speaker 1: electro sensitive or conductive wires can be useful to you know, 687 00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:31,000 Speaker 1: essentially for signaling purposes. He gives the example of, uh, 688 00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:33,640 Speaker 1: you know, being attached to some kind of wearable technology 689 00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:36,800 Speaker 1: that would touch the skin, and these little bacterial nano 690 00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:40,680 Speaker 1: wires could detect chemical changes in the properties of our sweat, 691 00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:43,840 Speaker 1: and that might be biologically useful information that could be 692 00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:46,520 Speaker 1: transmitted to a device that might tell you, I don't 693 00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:48,440 Speaker 1: know what, you know, there's something wrong with your sweat, dude, 694 00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:51,360 Speaker 1: you need to Yeah. Yeah, just basically, you know, this 695 00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:53,600 Speaker 1: gets into the whole area of like to whatever extent 696 00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:58,840 Speaker 1: we can develop dependable like real time biomonitoring, medical medical 697 00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:02,440 Speaker 1: monitoring technology like this kind of a you know, a 698 00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:07,240 Speaker 1: huge positive impact on human health. But yeah, so Carl. 699 00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:10,759 Speaker 1: Carl mentioned specifically the work of Derek Lovely again. Uh so, 700 00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:14,640 Speaker 1: you know, again the guy who discovered geobacter and and 701 00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:18,160 Speaker 1: has since expanded in into discovering several other microbe species, 702 00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:20,880 Speaker 1: just as other researchers have also discovered other MicroB species 703 00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:24,239 Speaker 1: that have these capabilities. And he's pointed out that while 704 00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:28,120 Speaker 1: geobacters filaments are super thin, like three nanometers in diameter, 705 00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:32,000 Speaker 1: some are more. Really, some of the more recently discovered 706 00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:36,320 Speaker 1: bacteria have fatter filaments, and Uh and this is especially 707 00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:39,239 Speaker 1: useful for us if we're looking to manipulate them. If 708 00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:41,839 Speaker 1: you want to manipulate them into some sort of an 709 00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:45,400 Speaker 1: electronic device like a nano wire sensors that we're talking about, 710 00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:48,040 Speaker 1: it pays to have something a little on a you know, 711 00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:50,640 Speaker 1: a slightly larger scale so that we can we can 712 00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:53,520 Speaker 1: actually work with it. Lovely and Uh and his co authors. 713 00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:57,040 Speaker 1: They also point out that protein nano wire like this 714 00:41:57,080 --> 00:42:00,360 Speaker 1: would have a number of advantage over silicon nano wires. 715 00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:04,560 Speaker 1: So if we're talking about the biocompatibility, the state of 716 00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:08,880 Speaker 1: the stability, the potential for modification into various biomolecules and 717 00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:13,160 Speaker 1: quote chemicals of medical or environmental interest, and plus the 718 00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:16,400 Speaker 1: sustainable method of producing these nano wires will make it 719 00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:19,600 Speaker 1: easier to build the sort of devices we're trying to 720 00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:22,480 Speaker 1: make and hoping to make in the future. Uh. He 721 00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:26,880 Speaker 1: points out that we've been making the thimble sized amounts 722 00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:29,560 Speaker 1: of the sort of you know, wire materials that we 723 00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:33,200 Speaker 1: need for for the future we're trying to build. But 724 00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:35,319 Speaker 1: what we need we need buckets of them. We need 725 00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:38,800 Speaker 1: buckets of these nano wires. And this is a possible 726 00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:41,920 Speaker 1: means by which we can grow buckets of nano wires. Oh, 727 00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:44,480 Speaker 1: it almost sounds like the early penicillin problem, you know, 728 00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:47,200 Speaker 1: with the Oxford researchers in the lab and they were 729 00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:50,080 Speaker 1: working with Alexander Fleming strain of penicillin. We talked about 730 00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:53,440 Speaker 1: this in a recent episode of Invention. Uh. You know, 731 00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:58,840 Speaker 1: they could they could create this penicillin from the Penicillium fungus, 732 00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:01,799 Speaker 1: the mold, but they couldn't make enough of it that 733 00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:03,959 Speaker 1: it would be useful. Like the first time they tried 734 00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:06,480 Speaker 1: to treat somebody with it who had a deadly infection. 735 00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:10,800 Speaker 1: The guy was successfully treated for a few days, but 736 00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:14,000 Speaker 1: the guy with the infection eventually died because they ran 737 00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:16,279 Speaker 1: out of penicillin. They just couldn't make enough of it. 738 00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:18,800 Speaker 1: And they later Uh, it only broke through as a 739 00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:22,360 Speaker 1: medicine because they discovered a more productive strain that could 740 00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:24,800 Speaker 1: make more of the stuff. Yeah, And I want to 741 00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:28,680 Speaker 1: come back to the the the the the sustainability aspect 742 00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:31,200 Speaker 1: of this too. The idea here being that if you know, 743 00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:33,640 Speaker 1: you could have these these devices and when they're done, 744 00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:36,040 Speaker 1: you're not just like it's not going into a dump, 745 00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:38,879 Speaker 1: it's not potentially being you know, part of some sort 746 00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:42,960 Speaker 1: of toxic waste. It is just biodegrading into the environment. 747 00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:46,120 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean, electronic waste is actually a big deal. 748 00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:48,319 Speaker 1: Like we you know, we we don't see a lot 749 00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:51,600 Speaker 1: of it. But what happens to all these electronic components 750 00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:54,000 Speaker 1: when we're done with them and the thing breaks and 751 00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:56,440 Speaker 1: you just throw it away. The possibility being able to 752 00:43:56,440 --> 00:43:58,960 Speaker 1: grow these things, I mean obviously that's that that would 753 00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:02,760 Speaker 1: have tremendous advantage. Yeah. Absolutely, And and that they'd be biodegradable. 754 00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:05,640 Speaker 1: You just you know, some other bacterium just eats them 755 00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:09,279 Speaker 1: up when you're done. But another thing that I've read 756 00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:12,239 Speaker 1: about these electroactive bacteria is that some of them are 757 00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:16,560 Speaker 1: extremely good candidates for the bioremediation of waste, including toxic 758 00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:19,640 Speaker 1: and radioactive waste, where they can take something like you 759 00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:22,279 Speaker 1: know a type of radioactive waste s like, you know, 760 00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:26,560 Speaker 1: a type of uranium, and they can, through their their 761 00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:32,000 Speaker 1: metabolic process, reduce that uranium to say, a less soluble form. 762 00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:34,839 Speaker 1: So they're not going to completely destroy it, but they 763 00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:38,320 Speaker 1: might change it into a form that makes it less 764 00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:41,359 Speaker 1: damaging to the environment. And the same could be true 765 00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:43,719 Speaker 1: for other forms of pollution. Another another thing I've seen 766 00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:46,600 Speaker 1: it referenced is the the idea of using bacteria like 767 00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:48,600 Speaker 1: this to clean up oil spills. You know that they 768 00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:52,239 Speaker 1: can like eat eat hydrocarbons that are in places they 769 00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:55,959 Speaker 1: shouldn't be, right, plastic waste being another another big one. Yeah, 770 00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:59,800 Speaker 1: So it's interesting We've been championing fungi on the show 771 00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:03,080 Speaker 1: for a little bit here, and now it's it's bacteria's 772 00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:07,000 Speaker 1: time to shine. We're back in the land of Jubilex. Yeah. 773 00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:10,840 Speaker 1: Jubile X being the d n d uh demon lord 774 00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:13,160 Speaker 1: of slimes and oozes, which in the bast episode we 775 00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:17,000 Speaker 1: kind of associated loosely with bacteria, and it is the 776 00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:21,920 Speaker 1: arch enemy of Zogdamoy, the demon lord of Funga. I 777 00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:24,920 Speaker 1: raised the flag of Jubilex for today. Yes, that's my side, 778 00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:28,040 Speaker 1: all right, So there we have it. Um, there's you know, 779 00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:30,160 Speaker 1: they're There are various areas here where we could branch off, 780 00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:32,360 Speaker 1: so you know, if you're interested in hearing more episodes 781 00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:36,600 Speaker 1: about about bacteria or about various means of dealing with 782 00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:39,560 Speaker 1: radioactive waste, but we would love to hear from you 783 00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:41,839 Speaker 1: in the meantime. Check out stuff to All Your Mind 784 00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:44,520 Speaker 1: dot com. That's where you find all the episodes, and 785 00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:46,759 Speaker 1: if you want to support the show, you can tell 786 00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:48,960 Speaker 1: some friends about it, tell family members about it, tell 787 00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:52,319 Speaker 1: household pets about our show, and then make sure you 788 00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:54,400 Speaker 1: rate and review us wherever you have the power to 789 00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:58,000 Speaker 1: do so. Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer, 790 00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:00,279 Speaker 1: Maya Cole. If you'd like to get into touch with 791 00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:02,320 Speaker 1: us with feedback on this episode or any other, to 792 00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:04,840 Speaker 1: suggest a topic for the future, or just to say hello, 793 00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:08,040 Speaker 1: you can email us at contact at stuff to Blow 794 00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:19,520 Speaker 1: your Mind dot com. Stuff to Blow Your Mind is 795 00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:21,879 Speaker 1: a production of iHeart Radio's How Stuff Works. For more 796 00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:24,279 Speaker 1: podcasts from my heart Radio is at the iHeart Radio app, 797 00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:38,360 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.