1 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:05,720 Speaker 1: Hey fam, Hello Sunshine. 2 00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:07,920 Speaker 2: Today on the bright Side, it's time to celebrate the 3 00:00:08,039 --> 00:00:11,480 Speaker 2: authors of Reese's Book Club with an all new installment 4 00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:12,479 Speaker 2: of shelf Life. 5 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:14,480 Speaker 1: Today is really special. 6 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 2: It's Reese's Book Club's one hundredth pick, and we're joined 7 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:21,079 Speaker 2: by author Margaret Wrinkle to talk about her book The 8 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:22,000 Speaker 2: Comfort of Crows. 9 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:22,960 Speaker 1: Fun fact. 10 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:27,080 Speaker 2: Margaret was Reese Witherspoon's high school English teacher, and she's 11 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 2: sharing what she remembers of Reese as a student. It's Monday, 12 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:33,280 Speaker 2: September thirtieth. I'm Danielle Robe. 13 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 1: And I'm Simone Boyce, and this is the bright Side 14 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:38,840 Speaker 1: from Hello Sunshine, a daily show where we come together 15 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 1: to share women's stories, laugh, learn, and bright near Day 16 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:45,200 Speaker 1: On My Mind Monday is brought to you by missus 17 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:48,360 Speaker 1: Myers Clean Day, inspired by the goodness of the garden. 18 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 2: Simone, It's on my Mind Monday, which is our opportunity 19 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 2: to start the week fresh with some inspiring perspective. 20 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:00,360 Speaker 1: What's on your mind today? Okay, first, I'm going to 21 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 1: start with a temperature check. How do you feel when 22 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:05,200 Speaker 1: I say the term humility? 23 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:05,679 Speaker 2: Hmm? 24 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:07,319 Speaker 1: How does it feel in your body? 25 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:11,800 Speaker 2: Danielle, It's one of my favorite words. I love people 26 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 2: who exemplify humility. 27 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:18,360 Speaker 1: I think it's actually a sign of confidence. 28 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:20,319 Speaker 2: Hmm. I like that. 29 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:21,120 Speaker 1: Say more about that. 30 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:25,319 Speaker 2: I think people that are humble know their own worth 31 00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:27,319 Speaker 2: and so they don't have to shout it to the world. 32 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:29,039 Speaker 1: But I'm seeing you not. 33 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:30,480 Speaker 2: I don't know how if you agree with me, how 34 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:32,120 Speaker 2: do you feel about the word I do? 35 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:35,399 Speaker 1: I totally agree with you, I think to a point. 36 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 1: I think that for a long time, women in particular 37 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 1: were conditioned to be humble at the expense of not 38 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 1: celebrating their skills, their accomplishments, right, And I saw that 39 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 1: in my own home, Like my mom raised me to 40 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 1: be extremely humble, and she is an extremely humble woman. 41 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 1: But sometimes I do have mixed feelings about that term, 42 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 1: because I wonder if you can be too humble and 43 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:04,200 Speaker 1: sell yourself short. Yeah, okay, so I've aired my baggage 44 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 1: about the word humility. But I recently came across an 45 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 1: article in the Washington Post that's all about a different 46 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 1: kind of humility, and this is one that I can 47 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 1: undoubtedly get behind. And this is called intellectual humility. So 48 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:22,640 Speaker 1: intellectual humility is acknowledging that we don't know everything, and 49 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:26,840 Speaker 1: that even some of our most deeply held beliefs are fallible. 50 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:32,359 Speaker 1: And research shows that intellectual humility is associated with curiosity, 51 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:37,640 Speaker 1: open mindedness, and expanding our general knowledge. Plus, people with 52 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:42,360 Speaker 1: more intellectual humility are also more likely to really scrutinize 53 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:45,200 Speaker 1: the evidence and quote. They're less likely to fall for 54 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:47,960 Speaker 1: misinformation and unsupported conspiracy theories. 55 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:50,799 Speaker 2: I also feel like they're more apt to ask questions. 56 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:51,400 Speaker 2: Do you agree? 57 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 1: Of course? I think intellectual curiosity and intellectual humility go 58 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 1: hand in hand, and the way you get there is 59 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 1: through asking question yeah. 60 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 2: Because I feel like people that are like that, are 61 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:07,239 Speaker 2: intellectually humble, are not afraid to not know something or 62 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 2: to look silly. 63 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:10,239 Speaker 1: Not afraid to admit that you don't know something. 64 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:13,239 Speaker 2: So how do you think we can bring more intellectual 65 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 2: humility to our own lives? 66 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:17,920 Speaker 1: Well, the writer of this piece, Richard Sima, laid out 67 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 1: some ways that we can cultivate it. He says, the 68 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 1: first step is taking a moment to reflect. So before 69 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:24,960 Speaker 1: you enter a conversation that you know is going to 70 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:27,360 Speaker 1: get heated, remind yourself of all the benefits that we 71 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:30,959 Speaker 1: just discussed that come with intellectual humility. And also get 72 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 1: clear on your goal for the conversation. I read this 73 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 1: book earlier this year, Super Communicators, by Charles Douhig, and 74 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:42,080 Speaker 1: whenever people are approaching sensitive conversations, he gives this advice 75 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 1: come back to a shared core belief and make sure 76 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 1: to emphasize that in the conversation. So if things are 77 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 1: getting nasty, say something like, I know we both believe X, 78 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:54,760 Speaker 1: or I know we're both aligned here. I know we 79 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 1: both want the same things, we just have different ways 80 00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:02,120 Speaker 1: of getting there. Mmmm. Another way to cultivate intellectual humility 81 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 1: is stepping outside yourself. I mean, one study showed that 82 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 1: adults who wrote diary entries in the third person instead 83 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:12,000 Speaker 1: of the first person had more growth in intellectual humility 84 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 1: and open mindedness. There are actually a lot of benefits 85 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 1: of thinking in the third person. It can help you 86 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:20,480 Speaker 1: kind of pull yourself out of a spiral. And when 87 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 1: I think about stepping outside yourself, I also think about 88 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 1: travel right, like literally and physically exposing yourself to different 89 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 1: perspectives and walks of life. For sure, we've talked about 90 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:31,640 Speaker 1: this on the show before. 91 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 2: But when I don't know what to do, sometimes I 92 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:36,680 Speaker 2: think about my life as a play and then I 93 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 2: sit in the audience and I'm like, Okay, what would 94 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:39,839 Speaker 2: I tell my character to do? 95 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:42,920 Speaker 1: WHOA, that's so cool. I don't know that I've ever 96 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:46,880 Speaker 1: done that, but that's a really cool thought exercise. Okay. Finally, 97 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:52,120 Speaker 1: Tip number three is just have gratitude. Emotions like awe, 98 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:57,800 Speaker 1: love and gratitude can help us transcend ourselves and increase 99 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:01,880 Speaker 1: intellectual humility least short term, so that can't hurt. 100 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 2: I love that one, and that kind of speaks to 101 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 2: what we were talking about earlier. That's the gratitude and 102 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:08,359 Speaker 2: humility are so linked. 103 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:08,839 Speaker 1: Yeah. 104 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:12,120 Speaker 2: One of the reasons I love the word humility is 105 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:15,719 Speaker 2: it comes from the Latin root humulus, which means low 106 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:21,359 Speaker 2: or grounded, and it's derived from humus, but it means 107 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:24,479 Speaker 2: earth or soil. It's so to be of the earth, 108 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:28,279 Speaker 2: to be one with nature. And that brings us to 109 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 2: our guests today because she's someone who spent a lot 110 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:35,720 Speaker 2: of time exploring the connection between nature and the human experience. 111 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 2: Margaret w Renkell is the author of the Comfort of Crows, 112 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 2: a Backyard Year, which tells the story of the changes 113 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:45,920 Speaker 2: of life through seasons. She actually spent an entire year 114 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:49,599 Speaker 2: documenting the plants and creatures in her backyard, and she 115 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 2: is the one hundredth book pick for Reese's Book Club. Well, 116 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 2: there's actually a deeper story there. Margaret w Renkell was 117 00:05:56,560 --> 00:06:00,080 Speaker 2: Reese Witherspoon's high school English teacher, so this is a 118 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 2: full circle. 119 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:04,520 Speaker 1: Moment for student and teacher. Well, after ten years of 120 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 1: helping our students fall in love with literature and poetry, 121 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:10,479 Speaker 1: students like Reese, Margaret is now a full time writer 122 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:13,920 Speaker 1: and contributing opinion writer for The New York Times. So 123 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:17,800 Speaker 1: The Comfort of Crows is her third book of essays. 124 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:22,039 Speaker 1: Her others include Late Migrations and Graceland at Last, and 125 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 1: then her next book, Leaf Cloud Crow, is a companion 126 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 1: journal for the Comfort of Crows. Margaret Wrinkle joins us 127 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 1: after the break stay with us thanks to our partners 128 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 1: at missus Myers. You can learn a lot about a 129 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:38,719 Speaker 1: person by their dish soap. Missus Meyers's collection of household 130 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:41,559 Speaker 1: products are inspired by the garden and pack a punch 131 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 1: against dirt and grime. Visit missus Myers dot com. Margaret, 132 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:58,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to the bright Side. 133 00:06:58,680 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 3: Oh, I'm so happy to be here. 134 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:00,599 Speaker 1: Thanks for having me. 135 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:04,200 Speaker 2: Danielle, Well, we're so excited to have you. Congratulations on 136 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 2: being at the one hundredth pick for Reese's Book Club 137 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 2: with your latest book, The Comfort of Crows, a backyard year. 138 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 2: So we heard that you thought you were being pranked 139 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 2: when you found out what happened. 140 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 3: Oh, I've never gotten a text from Reese before. When 141 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 3: I hear from reesa is usually through an Instagram message 142 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 3: or an email. And so I get this text and 143 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 3: it says, Margaret, this is Reese, do you have a 144 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 3: minute to talk. I write for the New York Times, 145 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:34,160 Speaker 3: so I have some pretty persistent trolls, and I just 146 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:36,840 Speaker 3: thought it might be somebody trying to figure out my 147 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 3: real telephone number by pretending to be Reese, because there 148 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 3: had just been a feature on Rees in The New 149 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:48,680 Speaker 3: York Times in which the author Elizabeth Echan mentioned that 150 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:52,120 Speaker 3: I had been Reese's high school English teacher, so would 151 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 3: have been fresh on people's minds. Anyway, I gave her 152 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 3: a little quiz. I said, if you're the real Reese Witherspoon, 153 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:03,240 Speaker 3: you'll know who a male teacher at Harpeth Hall in 154 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 3: the nineteen eighties what his name is. I figured nobody 155 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:09,960 Speaker 3: could look that up really quick and figure it out smart. 156 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 3: It would have to be the real Rees, but she 157 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 3: popped right up. Tad worked and I said, yes, Hi, Rees. 158 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 1: Well you both shared this really touching video after the 159 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:24,320 Speaker 1: announcement was made, and it's this video where you two 160 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 1: are walking through the halls of the school where Reese 161 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 1: studied English under you. You're in the library, you're looking 162 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:34,439 Speaker 1: through books together, and you both got really emotional as 163 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 1: you were reconnecting. What was that feeling like reconnecting again? 164 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 3: It was what she was saying, More than you know, 165 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 3: I hear from Rees from time to time. Sometimes several 166 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 3: years might pass, but I feel like I never miss 167 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 3: shows she's in. I never missed films she's made. I 168 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 3: watch movies that Hello Sunshine and series is that Hello 169 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 3: Sunshine produce, even when Reese is not in them soup. 170 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:01,720 Speaker 3: For all these years, I've felt like I've been there, 171 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:05,079 Speaker 3: you know, right beside her, even though I haven't been. 172 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:09,439 Speaker 3: So really, my emotional response to that what was happening 173 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:11,560 Speaker 3: in the library and that video was more about what 174 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 3: she was saying at that moment, because she really it's 175 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:19,839 Speaker 3: not entirely it's not true, it's really not true at all, 176 00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 3: but she believes that It's true that I'm the one 177 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 3: who made her understand the power of stories and the 178 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:32,199 Speaker 3: power of telling stories where people see themselves and recognize 179 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:35,560 Speaker 3: themselves in those stories. I remember what she was like 180 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 3: as a teenager, and I didn't plant that seed in her. 181 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:43,080 Speaker 3: It was already there. It had been there. I think 182 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 3: it had probably been there all her life. 183 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:47,920 Speaker 1: Well, she talks about being obsessed with stories from the 184 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 1: time she was like six. 185 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 3: You know, yes, that's what I mean. 186 00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:53,839 Speaker 1: I'm sure you just nurtured that seed, that that was 187 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 1: already there. Well, it was. 188 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 3: Such a huge part of her. She had already started 189 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:03,199 Speaker 3: making MOVI. She was just this kid, but she was 190 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:08,040 Speaker 3: making her second movie the first semester she was away. 191 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:11,120 Speaker 3: I mean, my only communication with her the first semester 192 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 3: I taught her was through a fax machine. I sent 193 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:19,080 Speaker 3: notes and quizzes and reading assignments and writing assignments to 194 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:22,640 Speaker 3: her on set tutor. And then the next semester I 195 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 3: was on maternity leave, And so it was the next 196 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:28,599 Speaker 3: year that I really got to know her. And I 197 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 3: think it was probably not accidental that it was my 198 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 3: first class as a mother, The first time I was 199 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:43,600 Speaker 3: seeing these teenage girls as almost like my daughters. So 200 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:46,760 Speaker 3: the connection with the students I taught that year was 201 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 3: especially fierce and strong. But I also just think that 202 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 3: Reese was hungry for those stories in those conversations. 203 00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 1: There's something that happens when you become a mom where 204 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 1: you start to see everyone as someone else's child. At 205 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:04,959 Speaker 1: least I don't know that happened for me, it's. 206 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:07,920 Speaker 3: True, and I felt like I, you know, in the 207 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:11,080 Speaker 3: in my early years as a teacher, I thought of 208 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 3: my students as my almost like myself as a young girl, 209 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 3: or like my younger sister. But it was a very 210 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:23,960 Speaker 3: big shift in how I understood that these were someone's 211 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 3: children and they were entrusted into my care in a 212 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 3: way that I hadn't really understood before. 213 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 2: When you say she credits you with her love of 214 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:37,520 Speaker 2: stories and really understanding the importance, what do you think 215 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 2: she's crediting? How did you teach? What's the thing that 216 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:42,680 Speaker 2: you think has stuck with her. 217 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:47,040 Speaker 3: She has said in earlier interviews that I taught her 218 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 3: to love hard stories, like hard books, not to be 219 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:54,840 Speaker 3: afraid of hard books. I don't know if that's true. 220 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:58,920 Speaker 3: I think it's probably that I offered a kind of 221 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:03,280 Speaker 3: permission to love a hard book. One of my favorite 222 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 3: books when I was in eighth grade has someone else's 223 00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 3: handwriting on the back of the cover paperback of Edith 224 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 3: Hamilton's Stories of Greek and Roman Mythology, And in somebody 225 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:18,120 Speaker 3: else's handwriting it says, this book is so boring, But 226 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:23,240 Speaker 3: I remember loving it, just absolutely drinking it in. And 227 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:25,960 Speaker 3: so I think what maybe she might have meant is 228 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:30,200 Speaker 3: that I was loving hard stories, not just hard stories, 229 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 3: not just hard books, and not just hard poems, but 230 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 3: that it was possible to love something that you did 231 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:37,680 Speaker 3: have to sometimes invest a little bit of effort into. 232 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:41,240 Speaker 3: It wasn't like surrendering to a book the way we 233 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:44,000 Speaker 3: talk about it now. It was more of an intensity 234 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 3: than that. And I think it's good to read hard books, 235 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 3: but I think it's good to read books that transport 236 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 3: us to I think we have different needs at different 237 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:55,560 Speaker 3: times of our lives, and even in different days of 238 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 3: the week, what are we looking for? Both are valuable, 239 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:00,680 Speaker 3: we don't have to choose. 240 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:05,320 Speaker 2: In much of your writing, you explore the connections between 241 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:09,320 Speaker 2: nature and love and loss and the human experience, and 242 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 2: in this book you often observe how nature adapts and 243 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:18,240 Speaker 2: thrives despite challenges. So you're sharing personal memories. What has 244 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:20,720 Speaker 2: nature taught you about your own life and how has 245 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 2: it helped you process your experiences? 246 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:26,360 Speaker 3: Well, you know, I've been writing for all my life, 247 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:29,920 Speaker 3: really from when I could first hold a pencil. But 248 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:33,640 Speaker 3: I hadn't written a book until my mother died, and 249 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:36,880 Speaker 3: it was a very sudden death. She was eighty. It 250 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:40,720 Speaker 3: wasn't that she was young, but her mother had lived 251 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:44,600 Speaker 3: to be ninety seven, and her grandmother had lived to 252 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:47,520 Speaker 3: be ninety six. And my great grandmother grew up in 253 00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:51,320 Speaker 3: an age without antibiotics or vaccines or she came from 254 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 3: a line of very long lived women, and I thought 255 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:59,440 Speaker 3: I would have her for another decade dec and a half. 256 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:03,360 Speaker 3: And she died very suddenly of a cerebral hemorrhage, and 257 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:10,400 Speaker 3: I was completely I just was lost. A few years 258 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:12,640 Speaker 3: before she died, she moved into the house across the 259 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:14,880 Speaker 3: street from me. She had dinner with our family every 260 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:18,440 Speaker 3: single night. She was a part of my daily life, 261 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 3: and suddenly she was gone. I took a lot of 262 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:26,200 Speaker 3: comfort from watching that cycle play out in the natural 263 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:29,840 Speaker 3: world outside my window. Because all living things die. We 264 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:32,960 Speaker 3: don't think about it, but that's what happens. And what 265 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:38,640 Speaker 3: I saw out there was that animals grieve. When a 266 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:43,320 Speaker 3: squirrel loses a partner, or a hawk gets a squirrel's partner, 267 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 3: or a hawk gets a squirrel's baby, the squirrel sits 268 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 3: in the tree and cries, keens, just despair and grief. 269 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 3: But it still goes on. And when you see creature 270 00:14:57,480 --> 00:15:02,040 Speaker 3: after creature facing the same thing and going on, it 271 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:05,960 Speaker 3: felt like a reminder. That's not why they went on, 272 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 3: It's just that it was a reminder that this is 273 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:13,360 Speaker 3: just a part of the cycle of how it works, 274 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:17,920 Speaker 3: and there's a beauty in it. Older people die because 275 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:20,640 Speaker 3: babies are still being born and we have to have 276 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:24,000 Speaker 3: room for them. It's part of how it works. And 277 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:27,880 Speaker 3: that was very comforting to me during that time. And 278 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 3: then there's so many other ways you see resilience and 279 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:37,120 Speaker 3: the willingness to try again and move on in all 280 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 3: kinds of situations. The flowers that are blooming for the 281 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:44,080 Speaker 3: bees today won't be blooming tomorrow, and the bees will 282 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 3: find new flowers. They're not cursing the fact that their 283 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:53,040 Speaker 3: steady supply of this particular blossom is no longer blooming. 284 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:55,360 Speaker 3: They just go on to the next flower. I think 285 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 3: that's a nice reminder. 286 00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 2: That change is ever present way of describing it. I'm 287 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:05,880 Speaker 2: curious how your understanding of home has evolved over time, 288 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:09,120 Speaker 2: both as a physical space and kind of as a 289 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:11,440 Speaker 2: metaphor for where we feel most grounded. 290 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:13,200 Speaker 1: I think that I. 291 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:16,960 Speaker 3: Am a very I'm a homebody, like I used to laugh. 292 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:19,960 Speaker 3: My husband, he's got an itchy foot, he loves, he 293 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:23,360 Speaker 3: has a lot of wonderlust. He's a school teacher still, 294 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:25,200 Speaker 3: and as soon as school is out he wants to 295 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 3: hit the road and go somewhere. And one day I 296 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 3: said to him, Honey, there are two kinds of people 297 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:32,920 Speaker 3: in the world. There are travelers and there are gardeners. 298 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:35,960 Speaker 3: And you're a traveler and I'm a gardener, and we're 299 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 3: just you know, we're still just fine in our wife 300 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:38,920 Speaker 3: through that. 301 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 1: And they marry each other, those two types of. 302 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 3: People, they marry each other. Well, we certainly did. But 303 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 3: I am very happy, very grounded in my little yard. 304 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:53,400 Speaker 3: But I think in a bigger sense, in some ways, 305 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:56,880 Speaker 3: I think we're just really imprinted on the landscape that 306 00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 3: forms us, not necessarily the one we're born, but the 307 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 3: one where we spent our childhood and so pine trees. 308 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 3: When I see pine trees, I feel at home because 309 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:12,719 Speaker 3: I grew up in the pine woods of Alabama. I 310 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:15,359 Speaker 3: don't live there, I haven't lived there since I was 311 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:18,520 Speaker 3: twenty two years old. But a pine tree makes me 312 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:22,320 Speaker 3: feel like home. Maybe most people feel that way about 313 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:24,280 Speaker 3: It might not be a pine tree. It might be 314 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:27,320 Speaker 3: a particular kind of oak or a particular kind of grass. 315 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:30,919 Speaker 3: But we see that and we respond to it. We 316 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:35,040 Speaker 3: feel this powerful pull toward it because we are creatures 317 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:37,639 Speaker 3: of the natural world, even though we live in houses, 318 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 3: and we recognize that we are drawn to the landscapes 319 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 3: that make us. 320 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:45,399 Speaker 2: We need to take a quick break, but we'll be 321 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:56,600 Speaker 2: right back. Stay with us, and we're back, Margaret. 322 00:17:56,640 --> 00:18:00,400 Speaker 1: I think you would love my backyard and my parents backyard, 323 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:02,040 Speaker 1: because we live down the street from each other, and 324 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:04,560 Speaker 1: we live in this desert area of Los Angeles, so 325 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:08,239 Speaker 1: we have all kinds of wildlife. We've got bobcats, we've 326 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:12,200 Speaker 1: got coyotes, we've got red tailed hawks. And my mom 327 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:14,920 Speaker 1: is not such a big fan of the wildlife, Margaret. 328 00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:18,720 Speaker 3: My mother wasn't anywhere. I'll tell you the truth. 329 00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:22,439 Speaker 1: I come over to my mom's house one day and 330 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:25,720 Speaker 1: She's like on her hands and knees spraying this substance 331 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:27,919 Speaker 1: around her yard. And I was like, Mom, what are 332 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 1: you doing? And She's like, Oh, I'm spraying wolf peece 333 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:32,960 Speaker 1: so the coyotes won't come and eat my grandbabies. 334 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:39,840 Speaker 2: This is well, I'm prod the mechanism, Margaret. I want 335 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:42,840 Speaker 2: to ask about something you said about the landscapes we 336 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:46,639 Speaker 2: grow up with. I think the Southern landscape feels so 337 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:50,400 Speaker 2: central to your identity in your writing as well. How 338 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:55,400 Speaker 2: has this connection to place shaped how you write and 339 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:56,679 Speaker 2: how you move throughout the world. 340 00:18:57,040 --> 00:18:59,760 Speaker 3: You know, most people don't think of the South this way, 341 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 3: but the South is a hotbed of biodiversity. And part 342 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:06,760 Speaker 3: of the reason for that is that so much of 343 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:10,960 Speaker 3: the South is still rural. Before air conditioning, there was 344 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:14,959 Speaker 3: no industrial revolution in the American South, really because it 345 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:19,000 Speaker 3: was impossible for people to live here. They couldn't imagine. Now, 346 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:22,359 Speaker 3: everybody moves here from everywhere else in the world. We 347 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:25,080 Speaker 3: have a huge immigrant population. We have a huge migratory 348 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:27,879 Speaker 3: population of people coming from California and from Chicago and 349 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:30,320 Speaker 3: from New York because they like it it's a little warmer, 350 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:34,000 Speaker 3: among other things. But I think that because I was 351 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:38,240 Speaker 3: so interested in lizards and toads and frogs and bats 352 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 3: and birds and little crawling things of every kind. And 353 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 3: to still have that biodiversity, I mean, it's being lost rapidly, 354 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:52,040 Speaker 3: as it is everywhere because people haven't learned to treasure 355 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:56,359 Speaker 3: it and protect it. But we have plants growing just 356 00:19:56,520 --> 00:20:00,119 Speaker 3: on the side of the road in rural Alabama. I'm 357 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:03,720 Speaker 3: a rural Tennessee rural Georgia that are on the endangered 358 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:08,359 Speaker 3: species list because they live in such a specific ecosystem 359 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:12,439 Speaker 3: and you can still just stop at a vacant lot 360 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:15,560 Speaker 3: and see them. Now, if you stop somewhere to put 361 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:18,680 Speaker 3: gas in your car and just walk next door, there's 362 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:21,600 Speaker 3: very likely to be something blooming there that you will 363 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:24,360 Speaker 3: never see anywhere else in the world. And I think 364 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:25,200 Speaker 3: that's part of it. 365 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:28,880 Speaker 1: Margaret. I want to tell you about my experience reading 366 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:32,720 Speaker 1: The Comfort of Crows. I find myself often rushing through 367 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:35,480 Speaker 1: books so that I can check them off my backlog list, 368 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:38,600 Speaker 1: not all of them, but some of them, because I 369 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:41,440 Speaker 1: always have this like productivity monster on my shoulder that's 370 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:44,720 Speaker 1: like be more efficient, do things, you know faster, and 371 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:47,720 Speaker 1: get things done. But when I read your writing, I 372 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:51,639 Speaker 1: completely slow down, and no one does this to me. 373 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 1: You have these magical powers where your words just completely 374 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:58,119 Speaker 1: like call me and give me this piece. And one 375 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:01,879 Speaker 1: of my favorite quotes from your book is this one. 376 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:05,000 Speaker 1: The natural world's perfect indifference has always been the best 377 00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:08,639 Speaker 1: cure for my own anxieties. And I just found so 378 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:10,879 Speaker 1: much comfort in your book and your writing, and it 379 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:12,960 Speaker 1: felt like a refuge for me even as I was 380 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:16,320 Speaker 1: moving through some daily stressors of my own. So asking, 381 00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:19,200 Speaker 1: as someone who's envious of that kind of writing talent, 382 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:23,159 Speaker 1: what's the secret to perfecting writing that makes the reader 383 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:24,960 Speaker 1: move at a gentler pace. 384 00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:28,120 Speaker 3: You really couldn't have said anything that would make me happier, 385 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:33,479 Speaker 3: because that is exactly what I hoped would be the 386 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:36,960 Speaker 3: effect of the comforter Crows. And I'll just be completely 387 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:41,960 Speaker 3: honest because that's I wrote that those essays to do 388 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:46,679 Speaker 3: that for myself, because I am as prone to racing 389 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:52,239 Speaker 3: thoughts and anxieties and worries and to do lists that 390 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:56,119 Speaker 3: never get done as anybody is. It's kind of like 391 00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 3: when people say how do you maintain your sense of optimism? 392 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:03,440 Speaker 3: And my kids laugh because I am not an optimistic person. 393 00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:07,959 Speaker 3: But when I write what I'm writing is in some 394 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:11,000 Speaker 3: ways what I need to read in the process of 395 00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:14,639 Speaker 3: putting words on the page, And for me, they almost 396 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 3: always start with a pen or a pencil and a notebook. 397 00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:23,760 Speaker 3: Lining words up one after another after another after another 398 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:29,600 Speaker 3: is a kind of focus that my brain doesn't naturally 399 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:33,080 Speaker 3: have in any other context. So even if I'm pulling 400 00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 3: weeds or I'm walking on a trail in the park, 401 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:41,080 Speaker 3: my mind is running pretty wild. But when I'm writing 402 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:45,479 Speaker 3: word by word by word by word, I can't race ahead. 403 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:48,560 Speaker 3: If I'm typing, I can because I can type really fast, 404 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:51,480 Speaker 3: but I can't write any faster than I can write, 405 00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:56,360 Speaker 3: And I think that that's physical slowness has a way 406 00:22:56,400 --> 00:23:01,359 Speaker 3: of slowing my racing thoughts as well. And I do 407 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:04,640 Speaker 3: think that you don't have to be writing an essay 408 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:08,280 Speaker 3: a week about your wild neighbors to have this effect. 409 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:11,840 Speaker 3: But if people can bring themselves to write down a 410 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:15,320 Speaker 3: few words, to give themselves permission, first of all, to 411 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:18,199 Speaker 3: put the phone down and just go and sit and 412 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:21,920 Speaker 3: listen to the birds, or to watch what's happening among 413 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:25,440 Speaker 3: the wild creatures. What are the bees doing in the flowers, 414 00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:28,679 Speaker 3: and why are some of them still in some of 415 00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:31,480 Speaker 3: them moving so quickly and studying them and trying to 416 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:35,440 Speaker 3: figure it out. Oh, that one's asleep. That bee is asleep, 417 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:39,320 Speaker 3: it's gotten tired, and the other bees are still working. 418 00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:42,440 Speaker 3: So when you have permission to slow down and pay 419 00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:46,639 Speaker 3: attention and then to word by word by word, write 420 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:49,560 Speaker 3: down your thoughts about what you've seen or what you've heard, 421 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:53,320 Speaker 3: or what you're experiencing, it has that way of slowing 422 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:56,720 Speaker 3: the autonomic nervous system. It makes your heart beat slower, 423 00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:01,879 Speaker 3: it makes your thoughts stop racing. It always has for me. 424 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:03,159 Speaker 3: That's what I think. 425 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 1: It's so clear from reading this book that you experience 426 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:12,479 Speaker 1: nature differently. So can you take me into your world 427 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:15,359 Speaker 1: for a minute. How do you experience nature? 428 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 4: Like? 429 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:18,720 Speaker 1: Walk me through the first couple of things that you 430 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:20,080 Speaker 1: do when you're outside. 431 00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:23,800 Speaker 3: It's almost unconscious, I think. For me, I don't think. Okay, 432 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:25,680 Speaker 3: first I'm going to check the flowers. Then I'm gonna 433 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:28,080 Speaker 3: check the trees, then I'm gonna check the very bearing 434 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:31,359 Speaker 3: bushes I've planted. I've been We've been in our house 435 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:35,440 Speaker 3: twenty nine and a half years, so we've over the years. 436 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:36,120 Speaker 1: It was just the. 437 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:41,920 Speaker 3: Typical sterile suburban backyard with privet and nandinas and use 438 00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:47,760 Speaker 3: just regular old landscaping plants that don't feed wild animals. 439 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:52,159 Speaker 3: And we've slowly added over the years native plants, plants 440 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:56,120 Speaker 3: that are native to the South that produce berries or 441 00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 3: produce seeds or nuts, so that there's always something to 442 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 3: feed the hungry creatures in the yard. And if you 443 00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:08,080 Speaker 3: have planted to feed the wildlife, the wildlife comes to you. 444 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:13,160 Speaker 3: So you're just kind of looking around, Okay, what's blooming, 445 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:18,399 Speaker 3: but also who's drinking in the nectar? Oh, I didn't 446 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:23,000 Speaker 3: realize that hummingbirds also eat insects. They're not just drinking 447 00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:26,960 Speaker 3: nectar from flowers. In the process of observing, you're taking 448 00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 3: mental note. This is a world. Every single day there's 449 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,440 Speaker 3: something I didn't know about the world. And you would 450 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,760 Speaker 3: think at my age, I'm sixty two, i'll be sixty 451 00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:40,000 Speaker 3: three next month, and I've been doing this for a 452 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 3: long long time, there wouldn't be any real surprises in 453 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:45,680 Speaker 3: this yard. But there always are, and so I'm looking 454 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:49,680 Speaker 3: for the surprises. I'm just wandering around with no agenda. 455 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:54,440 Speaker 3: I'm just looking at what catches my ear, catches my eye, 456 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 3: what's scent I can follow to see if something's blooming 457 00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:02,560 Speaker 3: that I hadn't realized was in bloom. I have a 458 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:04,840 Speaker 3: bird bath on my deck rail. I have a bird 459 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:07,879 Speaker 3: bath on a pedestal in the yard. I have a 460 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:10,679 Speaker 3: dish of water low to the ground for creatures like 461 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:15,800 Speaker 3: possums and raccoons and foxes. And you put water out, 462 00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:20,720 Speaker 3: you bring wildlife very close, and they don't. You can't 463 00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:22,639 Speaker 3: just sit on the backsteps and watch them come up 464 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:25,280 Speaker 3: and drink, but you can stand in the window and look. 465 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 3: I do a lot of spying on my wild neighbors. 466 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:32,040 Speaker 1: I think you're a Disney princess, Margaret, and you didn't 467 00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:36,480 Speaker 1: even realize it. You're snow white. I mean, you just 468 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:38,680 Speaker 1: you can't change my mind. 469 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:42,119 Speaker 3: With the little birds lighting on my finger. 470 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:47,199 Speaker 2: As you mentioned earlier, you're a contributing opinion writer for 471 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:50,119 Speaker 2: The New York Times, and you recently addressed this the 472 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:53,439 Speaker 2: Freedom to Read campaign, which was launched in response to 473 00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:57,120 Speaker 2: the growing trend of book bands. It feels so crucial 474 00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:02,639 Speaker 2: to protect diverse stories and diverse perspectives. What do you 475 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:04,959 Speaker 2: think the consequence is of book banning. 476 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:10,240 Speaker 3: It's a penalty, I think primarily for children who don't 477 00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:14,359 Speaker 3: have the resources, the economic resources to buy books, because 478 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:18,760 Speaker 3: the public library has always been for everybody, and school 479 00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:22,480 Speaker 3: libraries have always been for everybody in that school population. 480 00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:27,520 Speaker 3: When you have people saying these books, I don't want 481 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:31,840 Speaker 3: my children to possibly run across these books, and then 482 00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:35,960 Speaker 3: in the process deny other people's children of access to 483 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:40,240 Speaker 3: those books, it's anti democratic. I think it's the opposite 484 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:44,920 Speaker 3: of what this country is about. We're about freedom. If 485 00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:47,000 Speaker 3: you don't want your child to read a book, don't 486 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:49,800 Speaker 3: let the child read the book, but don't take it 487 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:53,000 Speaker 3: out of the library, because if your child. Most of 488 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:57,320 Speaker 3: the time, these book bans are happening in suburban school 489 00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:02,280 Speaker 3: systems where people are prosperous, but not every member of 490 00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:05,840 Speaker 3: that community is prosperous. So in some families, if the 491 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:08,880 Speaker 3: book is not available in the library, they'll go buy it, 492 00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:12,679 Speaker 3: but many families can't afford to buy it, and it 493 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:20,560 Speaker 3: has the way of stifling individuality, stifling freedom, stifling truth. 494 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:25,720 Speaker 3: I believe because the truth of America is the truth 495 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:30,639 Speaker 3: of diversity of many many different points of view, many 496 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:36,000 Speaker 3: many different human experiences, all coming together to believe in 497 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:38,320 Speaker 3: this idea of freedom. 498 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,280 Speaker 1: Well, we're going to get to hear your point of view. 499 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:44,640 Speaker 1: In your own voice right now, because we would love 500 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:48,040 Speaker 1: for you to read for us from the comfort of crows. 501 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:52,840 Speaker 1: This passage is from the Fall Week one chapter. It's 502 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,480 Speaker 1: called the Season of Making Ready. 503 00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:02,600 Speaker 3: The season of making ready Fall week one. Fall is 504 00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:06,840 Speaker 3: hurricane season, and whenever the Gulf Coast takes a wallop, 505 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:11,520 Speaker 3: the rains barreling north usher in a few blessedly cool 506 00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:16,080 Speaker 3: days in the midst of our usual heat and haze. 507 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:19,600 Speaker 3: I wouldn't wish a hurricane on anyone, but I admit 508 00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:24,080 Speaker 3: to feeling grateful for the rain. One September I drove 509 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:28,320 Speaker 3: home to Alabama while a gray mist turned the Appalachian 510 00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 3: foothills into a landscape of enchantment. Fog gathered in the 511 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:38,320 Speaker 3: valleys and edged the fields. Shreds of clouds clung to 512 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:43,160 Speaker 3: the trees like a shroud. Solitude and silence made it 513 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:47,680 Speaker 3: easy to forget the existence of anything else. What is 514 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:51,720 Speaker 3: an automobile? What is an interstate? When all the world 515 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:57,840 Speaker 3: is folded into mist? I have to work to love September, 516 00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:02,280 Speaker 3: that in between time, when the heavy heat lingers, but 517 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:07,560 Speaker 3: the maple leaves have already started to turn. Everyone is 518 00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:12,480 Speaker 3: making ready, preparing in this time of plenty for the 519 00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:17,880 Speaker 3: days of want ahead. In the garden, only the xenias 520 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:22,040 Speaker 3: are still blooming, and even they are shabby and dusted 521 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:28,200 Speaker 3: with mildew. The gleaming crows cling to the power lines panting. 522 00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:32,760 Speaker 3: The indefatible bees and butterflies aren't troubled by the xenia's 523 00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:37,640 Speaker 3: curling leaves or the gray powder that coats them. Our 524 00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:42,840 Speaker 3: resident hummingbirds are gone now, but weary migrants keep arriving 525 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:47,920 Speaker 3: to visit the fresh blooms. As much as hurricane rains 526 00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:51,600 Speaker 3: in the Gulf can bring relief to us here in Tennessee. 527 00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:56,920 Speaker 3: It's wrong to hope for rain while butterflies and hummingbirds 528 00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:01,400 Speaker 3: are on the wing for travel. The journey is long 529 00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:07,240 Speaker 3: for residents. The preparation is hard for all of us. 530 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:09,080 Speaker 3: Winter is coming. 531 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:13,719 Speaker 1: Where were you mentally when you wrote that chapter. 532 00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:19,080 Speaker 3: I had just made that drive when I wrote the 533 00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:22,200 Speaker 3: first draft of it, and when I came back to 534 00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:26,880 Speaker 3: it to work on whether it could work in this book, 535 00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:31,880 Speaker 3: I could go right back. I could remember that exact thing, 536 00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:37,840 Speaker 3: the mists clinging to the tops of the trees alongside 537 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:41,920 Speaker 3: the interstate, where it felt like I was in a 538 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:45,440 Speaker 3: magical landscape, and I wasn't in a car, and there 539 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,479 Speaker 3: were no other cars, and there was no interstate. It 540 00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:52,280 Speaker 3: was just me and the mist and my thoughts. 541 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:56,240 Speaker 2: There were so many engaged readers who had questions for you, 542 00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:59,240 Speaker 2: and so we're going to answer some listener questions. 543 00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:01,840 Speaker 1: If you're up for it. Oh, I can't wait, Okay. 544 00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:04,880 Speaker 2: So first step, we have Lisa, who has a special 545 00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:05,720 Speaker 2: connection to you. 546 00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:07,640 Speaker 1: Hi, Margaret. 547 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:09,440 Speaker 4: Like Greece, I was fortunate to have you as my 548 00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:12,560 Speaker 4: high school English teacher. Much to my dismay at the time. 549 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:14,280 Speaker 4: You refuse to allow me to hide in the back 550 00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:16,600 Speaker 4: of your class and write notes to my friends. You 551 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:18,880 Speaker 4: challenged me to overcome my shyness, and you empowered me 552 00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:22,240 Speaker 4: with your feedback about my writing and interpretation of poems. 553 00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:24,920 Speaker 4: I gained so much confidence in myself in your class 554 00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:27,160 Speaker 4: because of how you saw me. It changed how I 555 00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,400 Speaker 4: saw myself. I use those skills every day as a psychologist, 556 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:32,440 Speaker 4: and I don't believe I would have had the confidence 557 00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:35,440 Speaker 4: to pursue my doctorate in psychology had I not had 558 00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:38,520 Speaker 4: you as my teacher. Your book The Comfort of Crows 559 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:41,440 Speaker 4: just deep in my appreciation and awareness of the natural 560 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:46,120 Speaker 4: world through your beautiful descriptive imagery. To me, your writing 561 00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:49,280 Speaker 4: about this topic feels like an exercise of mindfulness and 562 00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:52,480 Speaker 4: how to hold grief and enjoy simultaneously. There was so 563 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:55,280 Speaker 4: much gratitude and wonder about the beauty of this world 564 00:32:55,680 --> 00:33:00,320 Speaker 4: in your essays, alongside sadness and despair. What's the biggest 565 00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:03,040 Speaker 4: life lesson you're hoping people will take away from your words? 566 00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:03,920 Speaker 1: Gosh? 567 00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:07,000 Speaker 3: Well, First of all, as I said to Es, I 568 00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:09,680 Speaker 3: will also say to you, Lisa, I did not teach 569 00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:12,719 Speaker 3: you those things. They were already in you, and they 570 00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:16,680 Speaker 3: were already visible to me. I think all I had 571 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:19,000 Speaker 3: to do was work a little bit to make you 572 00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:22,080 Speaker 3: see that they were there too. So I think you 573 00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:25,560 Speaker 3: would have found that courage to get that PhD and 574 00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:28,400 Speaker 3: change other people's lives no matter what. But I'm really 575 00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:31,640 Speaker 3: grateful that you think I had even a small hand 576 00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:34,920 Speaker 3: in it. As for what I hope people will take 577 00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:38,160 Speaker 3: from the comfort of Crosey, I think you pretty much 578 00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:41,880 Speaker 3: nailed it. I want people to read this book and 579 00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:45,400 Speaker 3: fall in love with the natural world, and I want 580 00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:47,360 Speaker 3: them to do that for two reasons. 581 00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:48,320 Speaker 1: I think that. 582 00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:54,040 Speaker 3: People who are in love will fight furiously and indefatigably 583 00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:57,520 Speaker 3: to save what they love. And the world is in trouble, 584 00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:00,280 Speaker 3: and I think we all need to be for just 585 00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:03,640 Speaker 3: warriors to save what we can while we still can, 586 00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:07,680 Speaker 3: because it isn't too late. But I also want people 587 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:09,640 Speaker 3: to fall in love with the natural world because I 588 00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:12,799 Speaker 3: think it's the antidote to the age we live in. 589 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:16,719 Speaker 3: We weren't created and didn't evolve to live at the 590 00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:19,400 Speaker 3: speed of the Internet, and it's making us all nuts. 591 00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:23,120 Speaker 3: And so if everybody falls in love with the natural world, 592 00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:25,959 Speaker 3: they might set their phone down, they might step away 593 00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:30,080 Speaker 3: from their screens and feel better. And I think we 594 00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:34,680 Speaker 3: just all need a way to feel better right now. 595 00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:38,960 Speaker 1: Okay, Margaret, Up next we have Melissa, who's got a 596 00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:42,399 Speaker 1: question about what you would like your readers to come 597 00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:44,880 Speaker 1: back to in the Comfort of Crows. 598 00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:48,440 Speaker 5: I first heard about your book The Comfort of Crows 599 00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:52,320 Speaker 5: last year and chose to listen to your audio version 600 00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:55,080 Speaker 5: of it, which was wonderful. It felt like a guided 601 00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:58,480 Speaker 5: meditation as I was walking my dog every day through December. 602 00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:01,359 Speaker 5: But since I kind of i flew through it in 603 00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,200 Speaker 5: one go, I've often thought of how this will be 604 00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:09,360 Speaker 5: lovely to return to through the years, specifically when I 605 00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:11,960 Speaker 5: know that I have my kind of cyclical low points 606 00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:16,600 Speaker 5: and hearing that you are a rereader, do you feel 607 00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:19,920 Speaker 5: like this book is especially meant as one to re 608 00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:25,480 Speaker 5: encounter as our own seasons change. Was that purposeful or 609 00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:28,880 Speaker 5: maybe did you have a specific overarching idea that you 610 00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:32,200 Speaker 5: would love for us as rereaders to hold on to 611 00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:33,400 Speaker 5: with this book. 612 00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:37,360 Speaker 3: I'm a big believer in rereading. When I was a 613 00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:41,080 Speaker 3: school teacher, I reread every book I taught every year 614 00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:45,080 Speaker 3: for ten years. And the more you reread a book, 615 00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:49,000 Speaker 3: the more you see what you missed the first time, 616 00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:52,960 Speaker 3: or you come to it almost with a new self 617 00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:56,280 Speaker 3: because the world has turned, your life has changed, you've changed, 618 00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:59,760 Speaker 3: and so you experienced the text in a different way, 619 00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:05,759 Speaker 3: but with the comfort of crows. I think one it 620 00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:08,520 Speaker 3: feels strange to say I think people should read it twice, 621 00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:11,440 Speaker 3: because there's so many wonderful books out there, and I 622 00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:14,839 Speaker 3: don't want to hug all the reading time. But if 623 00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:18,799 Speaker 3: you read it in one go the first time, it 624 00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:23,040 Speaker 3: might be nice to read it week by week, which 625 00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:25,640 Speaker 3: to every day of the week you think you might 626 00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:30,319 Speaker 3: most need a dose of a reminder to slow down, 627 00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:35,640 Speaker 3: to listen, to give yourself permission to participate in the 628 00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:39,319 Speaker 3: eternal of the natural world. If you just pick that 629 00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:43,239 Speaker 3: one day, whether it's Saturday morning or Sunday afternoon, and 630 00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:46,160 Speaker 3: just read the chapter that corresponds to that week of 631 00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:50,600 Speaker 3: the year. In a way, you will carry that message 632 00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:54,279 Speaker 3: with you. It'll be something you can ponder and it'll 633 00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:55,480 Speaker 3: last a little longer. 634 00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:58,960 Speaker 2: Margaret, thank you so much for joining us on the 635 00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:01,680 Speaker 2: bright Side today. This is a really special episode for us. 636 00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:02,760 Speaker 1: Thank you so much. 637 00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:05,560 Speaker 3: It is such a special interview for me. It's so 638 00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:09,560 Speaker 3: wonderful to be with you all, and to be with 639 00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:14,799 Speaker 3: the Reese's book Club community. I'm just still dumbfounded that 640 00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:17,960 Speaker 3: this even happened. I truly have enjoyed speaking with y'all. 641 00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:22,600 Speaker 3: You This was a such interesting questions and such interesting 642 00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:23,560 Speaker 3: things to think about. 643 00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:28,280 Speaker 1: Margaret Wrinkle is the author of The Comfort of Crows, 644 00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:31,680 Speaker 1: a Backyard Year, the one hundredth book selection of Reese's 645 00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:34,959 Speaker 1: Book Club. You can find it wherever you get your books. 646 00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:43,440 Speaker 1: That's it for today's show. Tomorrow, Baby it's you yep. 647 00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:46,479 Speaker 2: Singer songwriter Jojo is bringing her light to the bright 648 00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:49,680 Speaker 2: Side to talk all about her new memoir Over the Influence. 649 00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:54,080 Speaker 1: Join the conversation using hashtag the bright Side and connect 650 00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:57,319 Speaker 1: with us on social media at Hello Sunshine on Instagram 651 00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:00,520 Speaker 1: and at The bright Side Pod on TikTok oh, and 652 00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:03,200 Speaker 1: feel free to tag us at simone Voice and at 653 00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:04,320 Speaker 1: Danielle Robe. 654 00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:07,759 Speaker 2: Listen and follow The bright Side on the iHeartRadio app, 655 00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:10,520 Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 656 00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:13,640 Speaker 1: See you tomorrow, folks, keep looking on the bright side.