1 00:00:46,480 --> 00:00:51,921 Speaker 1: School of Humans. Helen Got Murder Line actively investigates cold 2 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:55,361 Speaker 1: case murders in an effort to raise public awareness invite 3 00:00:55,401 --> 00:00:58,761 Speaker 1: witnesses to come forward and present evidence that could potentially 4 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:02,961 Speaker 1: be further investigated by law enforcement. While we value insights 5 00:01:03,001 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 1: from family and community members, their statements should not be 6 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:09,961 Speaker 1: considered evidence and point to the challenges of verifying facts 7 00:01:10,041 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 1: inherent in cold cases. We remind listeners that everyone has 8 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 1: presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. 9 00:01:17,961 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 1: Nothing in the podcast is intended to state or imply 10 00:01:21,041 --> 00:01:23,601 Speaker 1: that anyone who has not been convicted of a crime 11 00:01:24,121 --> 00:01:27,121 Speaker 1: is guilty of any wrongdoing. Thanks for listening. 12 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:33,200 Speaker 2: At one forty am on Saturday, September twenty eighth, nineteen 13 00:01:33,241 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 2: seventy four, police got a call about a traffic accident 14 00:01:37,121 --> 00:01:41,360 Speaker 2: on State Highway seventy seven in Crittenden County, Arkansas, three 15 00:01:41,481 --> 00:01:45,121 Speaker 2: miles north of the Late David Overpass. When they got there, 16 00:01:45,601 --> 00:01:49,521 Speaker 2: they found a nineteen sixty four Chevrolet which was stopped 17 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 2: in the southbound lane of the highway. Near the abandoned 18 00:01:53,161 --> 00:01:56,321 Speaker 2: car in a ditch, they found the body of thirty 19 00:01:56,361 --> 00:02:00,160 Speaker 2: five year old Fred Knew Junior, a married father of three, 20 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:02,761 Speaker 2: who worked the night shift at a local trucking company. 21 00:02:03,881 --> 00:02:07,281 Speaker 2: Fred had been shot three times at very close range 22 00:02:07,361 --> 00:02:09,881 Speaker 2: with a shotgun. He had been shot in the neck, 23 00:02:10,161 --> 00:02:13,961 Speaker 2: the side, and the elbow. His shoes and socks had 24 00:02:14,001 --> 00:02:18,241 Speaker 2: been removed, and he had no identification on him. Fred's 25 00:02:18,281 --> 00:02:21,041 Speaker 2: pockets were turned out and the money he had on him, 26 00:02:21,081 --> 00:02:23,881 Speaker 2: which according to his wife was around two hundred dollars, 27 00:02:24,121 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 2: had been stolen. Police later said they believed that whoever 28 00:02:28,281 --> 00:02:33,161 Speaker 2: killed Fred also took his wallet in keys. There was 29 00:02:33,281 --> 00:02:35,801 Speaker 2: blood in the front of the car and Fred was 30 00:02:35,881 --> 00:02:37,680 Speaker 2: lying in a pool of blood near the back of 31 00:02:37,721 --> 00:02:42,401 Speaker 2: the vehicle outside the car, so it seems like either 32 00:02:42,441 --> 00:02:44,841 Speaker 2: his killer or killers threw him out of the car 33 00:02:45,641 --> 00:02:48,681 Speaker 2: or he stumbled out after being shot and his killer 34 00:02:49,041 --> 00:02:54,400 Speaker 2: could have fired the final shot or shots outside. Police 35 00:02:54,441 --> 00:02:57,800 Speaker 2: got the call about Fred's car after another driver crashed 36 00:02:57,801 --> 00:03:00,441 Speaker 2: into it as it was stalled on the highway, but 37 00:03:00,561 --> 00:03:05,081 Speaker 2: that other driver fled the scene. They later found the driver, 38 00:03:05,561 --> 00:03:07,800 Speaker 2: and they dragged the hit and run driver out from 39 00:03:07,881 --> 00:03:10,961 Speaker 2: under a bed at a local motel. But that was 40 00:03:11,121 --> 00:03:15,001 Speaker 2: just the beginning because near where Fred's body was found, 41 00:03:15,281 --> 00:03:18,240 Speaker 2: police learned that a local gas station had been robbed. 42 00:03:18,961 --> 00:03:21,841 Speaker 2: So now police had a robbery, a hit and run, 43 00:03:21,881 --> 00:03:25,481 Speaker 2: and a brutal execution style murder, all in the same 44 00:03:25,601 --> 00:03:32,001 Speaker 2: night in the same small town. I'm Catherine Townsend. Over 45 00:03:32,041 --> 00:03:34,761 Speaker 2: the past seven years of making my true crime podcast, 46 00:03:34,761 --> 00:03:38,281 Speaker 2: Telling Gone, I've learned that there's no such thing as 47 00:03:38,321 --> 00:03:42,521 Speaker 2: a small town where murder never happens. I've received hundreds 48 00:03:42,521 --> 00:03:45,641 Speaker 2: of messages from people all around the country asking for 49 00:03:45,681 --> 00:03:48,681 Speaker 2: help with an unsolved murder that's affected them, their families, 50 00:03:49,001 --> 00:03:52,081 Speaker 2: and their communities. If you have a case you'd like 51 00:03:52,161 --> 00:03:54,121 Speaker 2: me and my team to look into, you can reach 52 00:03:54,161 --> 00:03:56,481 Speaker 2: out to us at our Helen Gone Murder line at 53 00:03:56,521 --> 00:03:59,801 Speaker 2: six seven eight seven four four six one four five. 54 00:04:00,281 --> 00:04:03,641 Speaker 2: That's six seven eight seven four four six one four five, 55 00:04:04,201 --> 00:04:07,001 Speaker 2: or you can send us a message on Instagram at 56 00:04:07,281 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 2: Helen gonepod. This is Helen Gone Murder Line. From the beginning, 57 00:04:57,640 --> 00:05:01,561 Speaker 2: this seemed to be a confusing crime scene. Police had 58 00:05:01,641 --> 00:05:04,721 Speaker 2: a possible car accident, a possible hit and run, a 59 00:05:04,761 --> 00:05:08,881 Speaker 2: convenience store robbery, and a murder. Now law enforcement had 60 00:05:08,921 --> 00:05:12,161 Speaker 2: to figure out how and if any of them were connected. 61 00:05:13,881 --> 00:05:17,921 Speaker 2: This murder happened more than fifty years ago, but Fred 62 00:05:18,041 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 2: New's family are still trying to figure out what really 63 00:05:20,801 --> 00:05:25,001 Speaker 2: happened to him that night. According to Frednw's son, Jason, 64 00:05:25,401 --> 00:05:27,641 Speaker 2: he doesn't remember much about the day his dad died. 65 00:05:27,961 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 2: He was only three years old at the time, but 66 00:05:31,081 --> 00:05:33,520 Speaker 2: over the years he has talked to his mom about 67 00:05:33,521 --> 00:05:36,961 Speaker 2: his father and learned that Fred was a loner and 68 00:05:37,001 --> 00:05:40,281 Speaker 2: that his family still doesn't know exactly what he was 69 00:05:40,361 --> 00:05:43,801 Speaker 2: doing on the day he was shot. Fred New was 70 00:05:43,801 --> 00:05:47,441 Speaker 2: born on September thirtieth, nineteen thirty eight. After graduating from 71 00:05:47,521 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 2: high school, he served in the military. He worked for 72 00:05:50,681 --> 00:05:53,921 Speaker 2: a trucking company in Memphis called Bowman Truck Lines and 73 00:05:54,001 --> 00:05:57,121 Speaker 2: had had that job for about five years at the 74 00:05:57,161 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 2: time he was fatally shot. Fred was just days away 75 00:06:00,921 --> 00:06:04,641 Speaker 2: from his thirty sixth birthday. He was married. His wife 76 00:06:04,681 --> 00:06:07,761 Speaker 2: worked as a respiratory therapist, and they had three children, 77 00:06:08,241 --> 00:06:11,281 Speaker 2: three year old Jason, one six year old daughter, and 78 00:06:11,321 --> 00:06:15,001 Speaker 2: another daughter, Kim, who was nine at the time. We 79 00:06:15,201 --> 00:06:18,721 Speaker 2: spoke to Kim. She remembered a bit more about the 80 00:06:18,801 --> 00:06:20,161 Speaker 2: day that her father was killed. 81 00:06:21,081 --> 00:06:24,961 Speaker 3: I just remember mother saying, there's been a horrible accident 82 00:06:26,001 --> 00:06:28,921 Speaker 3: and your daddy's been taken from us, is what she said. 83 00:06:29,881 --> 00:06:32,761 Speaker 3: And she didn't go into a lot of detail at 84 00:06:32,841 --> 00:06:36,521 Speaker 3: that point. You know, she just reassuring us how much, 85 00:06:37,161 --> 00:06:41,601 Speaker 3: how much she loved us, and that she would want us. 86 00:06:41,801 --> 00:06:45,081 Speaker 3: The kidntinued to be good little girls named Jason be 87 00:06:45,281 --> 00:06:49,921 Speaker 3: the little boy, and he wasn't coming home, and and 88 00:06:50,041 --> 00:06:54,281 Speaker 3: Jason said when willman and daddy be back? And she 89 00:06:54,441 --> 00:06:58,161 Speaker 3: of course said, baby, your daddy's not coming back. 90 00:07:00,801 --> 00:07:04,801 Speaker 2: Police interviewed Buster Wyrick, the cashier at the gas station 91 00:07:05,001 --> 00:07:07,641 Speaker 2: who was working the night of September twenty seventh and 92 00:07:07,721 --> 00:07:11,961 Speaker 2: witnessed the robbery. Buster told police that two men came 93 00:07:12,001 --> 00:07:14,921 Speaker 2: into the gas station. He described the first one as 94 00:07:14,961 --> 00:07:18,161 Speaker 2: a white male, approximately twenty five years old, about six 95 00:07:18,201 --> 00:07:21,001 Speaker 2: foot two weighing around one hundred and eighty to one 96 00:07:21,041 --> 00:07:24,641 Speaker 2: hundred and ninety pounds, with brown shoulder length hair with 97 00:07:24,721 --> 00:07:29,121 Speaker 2: alongside burns. He described the second man as a smaller, 98 00:07:29,161 --> 00:07:31,840 Speaker 2: white male, about twenty one to twenty two years of age, 99 00:07:32,161 --> 00:07:35,681 Speaker 2: around five foot four inches tall, with brown, medium length hair. 100 00:07:36,681 --> 00:07:39,041 Speaker 2: Buster said that the two men waited for the other 101 00:07:39,081 --> 00:07:41,881 Speaker 2: customers to leave, and then one of them asked for 102 00:07:42,001 --> 00:07:45,881 Speaker 2: change for a dollar. Said the larger suspect pulled out 103 00:07:45,881 --> 00:07:48,961 Speaker 2: a twenty two caliber pistol a gun, which is sometimes 104 00:07:49,001 --> 00:07:52,201 Speaker 2: referred to as a Saturday Night special, and told him 105 00:07:52,281 --> 00:07:55,241 Speaker 2: to give him all his money. Buster said that the 106 00:07:55,281 --> 00:07:58,001 Speaker 2: second man came around behind the counter at that point, 107 00:07:58,281 --> 00:08:00,561 Speaker 2: took the money he had on him and shoved him 108 00:08:00,601 --> 00:08:04,361 Speaker 2: down into a chair. That's when the second suspect saw 109 00:08:04,361 --> 00:08:07,681 Speaker 2: the twelve gage pump shotgun that they kept hidden behind 110 00:08:07,681 --> 00:08:11,401 Speaker 2: the counter with some shotgun shells. The two men ended 111 00:08:11,481 --> 00:08:14,601 Speaker 2: up stealing one hundred and seventy five dollars, which would 112 00:08:14,641 --> 00:08:17,561 Speaker 2: be a little over eleven hundred dollars in today's money. 113 00:08:18,601 --> 00:08:22,001 Speaker 2: Buster told police that the two men took the money, 114 00:08:22,201 --> 00:08:25,041 Speaker 2: the shotgun, and the box of shotgun shells, and then fled. 115 00:08:25,681 --> 00:08:27,681 Speaker 2: He said that he saw them running through a field 116 00:08:27,881 --> 00:08:31,321 Speaker 2: located behind the service station. At this point, he said 117 00:08:31,361 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 2: he saw a car, which he described as a light 118 00:08:34,201 --> 00:08:38,521 Speaker 2: colored nineteen sixty four Chevrolet. Buster said that the Chevy 119 00:08:38,680 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 2: was parked on the service road near the Interstate Highway. 120 00:08:41,721 --> 00:08:44,761 Speaker 2: He told police he believed that this was the car 121 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:48,560 Speaker 2: used by the robbers. After the robbers fled the scene, 122 00:08:48,680 --> 00:08:51,641 Speaker 2: Buster ran next door to the Penis service station. He 123 00:08:51,761 --> 00:08:54,281 Speaker 2: told the operator there to call the Sheriff's office to 124 00:08:54,321 --> 00:08:57,521 Speaker 2: report the robbery. When he went back to the scene 125 00:08:57,521 --> 00:09:00,160 Speaker 2: of the crime, he found out that the phone lines 126 00:09:00,201 --> 00:09:04,241 Speaker 2: at his service station had been cut. One of the 127 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:07,241 Speaker 2: things that's not immediately clear is the timing of the 128 00:09:07,321 --> 00:09:12,361 Speaker 2: robbery and the homicide, which one happened first. There's no 129 00:09:12,601 --> 00:09:15,961 Speaker 2: exact time on the police reports. One of the only 130 00:09:16,041 --> 00:09:18,761 Speaker 2: clues to timing is the statement from Buster's nineteen year 131 00:09:18,801 --> 00:09:23,161 Speaker 2: old son, Terry, who worked at another nearby Fhena gas station. 132 00:09:24,641 --> 00:09:27,361 Speaker 2: On the night Fred was killed. Terry told police he 133 00:09:27,441 --> 00:09:29,841 Speaker 2: was out with some friends. The girls he was with 134 00:09:29,921 --> 00:09:31,761 Speaker 2: had to be home by midnight, and on the way 135 00:09:31,801 --> 00:09:34,081 Speaker 2: to drive them home, he said they stopped by his 136 00:09:34,161 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 2: dad's gas station at around eleven fifteen so that one 137 00:09:36,921 --> 00:09:39,841 Speaker 2: of the girls could use the bathroom. Before they left, 138 00:09:40,161 --> 00:09:43,041 Speaker 2: he and his friends noticed a white car sitting outside 139 00:09:43,041 --> 00:09:46,001 Speaker 2: the gas station. He described it as a sixty three 140 00:09:46,201 --> 00:09:50,361 Speaker 2: or sixty four Chevrolet White, but he didn't think anything 141 00:09:50,361 --> 00:09:54,121 Speaker 2: more about it at the time. After dropping the girls home, 142 00:09:54,401 --> 00:09:57,001 Speaker 2: Terry said that he passed by the station again, but 143 00:09:57,081 --> 00:09:59,481 Speaker 2: his dad wasn't at his gas station. He was at 144 00:09:59,481 --> 00:10:03,280 Speaker 2: the Phenis station next door. That's when Buster told Terry 145 00:10:03,321 --> 00:10:05,161 Speaker 2: to get down that he had been robbed and that 146 00:10:05,241 --> 00:10:09,200 Speaker 2: the men had guns. Given the distances driven and the timings, 147 00:10:09,721 --> 00:10:13,801 Speaker 2: that should have put the robbery sometime around midnight. Police 148 00:10:13,841 --> 00:10:15,881 Speaker 2: got the call about the body by the road at 149 00:10:15,881 --> 00:10:19,641 Speaker 2: one forty am. So it seems like the robbery did 150 00:10:19,761 --> 00:10:23,641 Speaker 2: happen before Fred was murdered, But since no one had 151 00:10:23,681 --> 00:10:26,321 Speaker 2: cell phones back then, the people in the accident had 152 00:10:26,361 --> 00:10:29,121 Speaker 2: to be driven to a phone to report this, there 153 00:10:29,161 --> 00:10:32,841 Speaker 2: was a delay before police were called. These two events, 154 00:10:32,921 --> 00:10:37,121 Speaker 2: the robbery and the shooting, happened very close together time wise. 155 00:10:37,801 --> 00:10:41,641 Speaker 2: According to police documents, the robbery happened about forty five 156 00:10:41,681 --> 00:10:45,681 Speaker 2: minutes before the discovery of Fred Knew body. But here's 157 00:10:45,681 --> 00:10:49,441 Speaker 2: where it got complicated. Buster and his son both said 158 00:10:49,521 --> 00:10:52,761 Speaker 2: they saw light colored nineteen sixty three or nineteen sixty 159 00:10:52,761 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 2: four Chevy, and that's the same description as Fred Newscar 160 00:10:57,841 --> 00:11:12,161 Speaker 2: So was Fred involved in the robbery? Were Fred's shooting 161 00:11:12,201 --> 00:11:16,601 Speaker 2: and the convenience store robbery related? Early on in the investigation, 162 00:11:16,921 --> 00:11:19,921 Speaker 2: there was a lot of confusion and misinformation was spread. 163 00:11:20,441 --> 00:11:23,761 Speaker 2: For example, Roy Akers, the Deputy sheriff of Crittenden County, 164 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:26,601 Speaker 2: told a reporter that Fred had been shot in the 165 00:11:26,681 --> 00:11:29,081 Speaker 2: side with a shotgun and in the neck with a pistol, 166 00:11:29,561 --> 00:11:33,160 Speaker 2: but according to his autopsy report, that wasn't true. Only 167 00:11:33,241 --> 00:11:36,721 Speaker 2: one weapon was used, a four to ten gage shotgun, 168 00:11:37,001 --> 00:11:41,401 Speaker 2: And then police made statements to local newspapers that indicated 169 00:11:41,481 --> 00:11:44,001 Speaker 2: they thought that Fred news homicide in the gas station 170 00:11:44,161 --> 00:11:48,841 Speaker 2: robbery were related. This happened because police were following a lead. 171 00:11:48,961 --> 00:11:51,721 Speaker 2: They had a detailed description of the car at the 172 00:11:51,761 --> 00:11:55,081 Speaker 2: scene of the service station during the robbery. Police told 173 00:11:55,161 --> 00:11:58,641 Speaker 2: local media the description of that car matched the description 174 00:11:58,721 --> 00:12:04,241 Speaker 2: of Fred newscr. So at first police believed Fred had 175 00:12:04,321 --> 00:12:06,641 Speaker 2: been one of the people who robbed the service station. 176 00:12:07,641 --> 00:12:11,440 Speaker 2: According to police reports, Buster was shown a picture of 177 00:12:11,561 --> 00:12:14,841 Speaker 2: Fred on September twenty ninth, and he identified Fred as 178 00:12:14,881 --> 00:12:17,481 Speaker 2: one of the men who robbed him. In fact, he 179 00:12:17,521 --> 00:12:19,761 Speaker 2: said that Fred was the man who held a gun 180 00:12:19,801 --> 00:12:22,481 Speaker 2: on him, but it turned out that it was more 181 00:12:22,521 --> 00:12:26,761 Speaker 2: complicated than that. A later police report dated October twenty eighth, 182 00:12:26,801 --> 00:12:30,481 Speaker 2: nineteen seventy four, stated no identification could be made by 183 00:12:30,481 --> 00:12:32,761 Speaker 2: Buster when it came to Fred being one of the 184 00:12:32,801 --> 00:12:36,081 Speaker 2: people inside the stoor who robbed him that night. The 185 00:12:36,161 --> 00:12:39,601 Speaker 2: report stated Fred knew had good character and a steady job, 186 00:12:40,041 --> 00:12:43,441 Speaker 2: and at some point it's not clear whether this was 187 00:12:43,481 --> 00:12:47,761 Speaker 2: a misidentification by Buster or what happened next, but police 188 00:12:47,801 --> 00:12:52,641 Speaker 2: apparently determined Fred Knew was not involved in the robbery. 189 00:12:52,881 --> 00:12:56,721 Speaker 2: Crittenden County Sheriff David Doyle told the Son newspaper that 190 00:12:56,761 --> 00:13:00,201 Speaker 2: their investigation had determined that Fred Knew was not one 191 00:13:00,201 --> 00:13:02,081 Speaker 2: of the two men who had robbed the service station, 192 00:13:02,721 --> 00:13:06,361 Speaker 2: and over the years, Fred's son Jason told us the 193 00:13:06,521 --> 00:13:09,281 Speaker 2: detectives have told him his father was not involved in 194 00:13:09,321 --> 00:13:12,641 Speaker 2: the robbery. So how did they figure that out? And 195 00:13:12,721 --> 00:13:16,041 Speaker 2: what was police's working theory? There is a lot we 196 00:13:16,201 --> 00:13:20,041 Speaker 2: just don't know. According to the article, police assumed that 197 00:13:20,081 --> 00:13:22,641 Speaker 2: the robbery and Fred's homicide were connected just because they 198 00:13:22,681 --> 00:13:26,721 Speaker 2: happened in close proximity to one another, and potentially because 199 00:13:26,721 --> 00:13:29,481 Speaker 2: of Fred's vehicle having a similar description to the one 200 00:13:29,561 --> 00:13:33,001 Speaker 2: used in the robbery. The sheriff also said at the 201 00:13:33,041 --> 00:13:36,401 Speaker 2: time that police were doing quote a full scale investigation 202 00:13:36,721 --> 00:13:40,881 Speaker 2: into Fred's murder. After Fred was killed and left in 203 00:13:40,881 --> 00:13:44,881 Speaker 2: the ditch, his car was abandoned and one crashed into 204 00:13:44,921 --> 00:13:49,001 Speaker 2: that park car and fled the scene. Police tracked down 205 00:13:49,081 --> 00:13:52,481 Speaker 2: the man who hit Fred's car. His name was Billy 206 00:13:52,561 --> 00:13:57,081 Speaker 2: Joe Smith. They interviewed Billy on October fifteenth, nineteen seventy four. 207 00:13:57,801 --> 00:14:00,401 Speaker 2: Billy said that on September twenty seventh, he got off 208 00:14:00,441 --> 00:14:03,041 Speaker 2: work at around five pm. In the afternoon, he said, 209 00:14:03,081 --> 00:14:05,921 Speaker 2: he went back to his place with his girlfriend. Then 210 00:14:06,081 --> 00:14:08,001 Speaker 2: they went with a friend of his named Charles, to 211 00:14:08,041 --> 00:14:10,361 Speaker 2: the Town and Country liquor store and bought two six 212 00:14:10,441 --> 00:14:13,601 Speaker 2: packs of beer. The group went over to another friend's 213 00:14:13,641 --> 00:14:18,041 Speaker 2: house while Charles's date and Billy's date got ready, Then 214 00:14:18,121 --> 00:14:21,721 Speaker 2: they stopped for more beer. Billy said that at this point, 215 00:14:21,801 --> 00:14:24,281 Speaker 2: Charles was driving, and that as they were turning on 216 00:14:24,361 --> 00:14:27,001 Speaker 2: to the service road of the I fifty five, they 217 00:14:27,121 --> 00:14:30,201 Speaker 2: saw a man beside a white car waving them down 218 00:14:30,281 --> 00:14:33,041 Speaker 2: to stop, which he said they did. Billy said that 219 00:14:33,121 --> 00:14:35,081 Speaker 2: Charles asked the man what was wrong, and that the 220 00:14:35,121 --> 00:14:38,161 Speaker 2: man said he was out of gas. The man asked 221 00:14:38,161 --> 00:14:40,681 Speaker 2: if they had any and Charles told him no. He 222 00:14:40,801 --> 00:14:43,681 Speaker 2: told the stranger there wasn't any place open at that point, 223 00:14:43,841 --> 00:14:47,081 Speaker 2: so Charles told the man sorry, they couldn't help him. 224 00:14:47,281 --> 00:14:50,121 Speaker 2: Billy also said that Charles asked the man where he 225 00:14:50,241 --> 00:14:54,761 Speaker 2: was from, and the man said Caraway. Now Fred knew 226 00:14:54,921 --> 00:14:58,521 Speaker 2: was from an area north of Caraway. But there's nothing 227 00:14:58,561 --> 00:15:01,601 Speaker 2: in the police report to indicate that they exchanged names. 228 00:15:02,681 --> 00:15:05,401 Speaker 2: After that, Billy said that he, Charles, and the two 229 00:15:05,441 --> 00:15:07,921 Speaker 2: women went on to a local nightclub, the Starlight Club, 230 00:15:07,961 --> 00:15:10,801 Speaker 2: at around nine thirty or ten pm. He said that 231 00:15:10,841 --> 00:15:12,881 Speaker 2: he and his friends were dancing and drinking there for 232 00:15:12,921 --> 00:15:16,161 Speaker 2: a while. He said they left around midnight, though Billy 233 00:15:16,241 --> 00:15:19,721 Speaker 2: said he wasn't sure at the exact time. While they 234 00:15:19,761 --> 00:15:23,801 Speaker 2: were driving home, Billy said his car broke. He said 235 00:15:23,801 --> 00:15:26,321 Speaker 2: the shifting rod fell off and the vehicle jumped out 236 00:15:26,321 --> 00:15:29,041 Speaker 2: of gear. He stopped to try and fix it or 237 00:15:29,081 --> 00:15:32,801 Speaker 2: to slide it into fourth gear. Eventually, he said, he 238 00:15:32,921 --> 00:15:35,481 Speaker 2: was able to drive away. They made their way toward home, 239 00:15:35,961 --> 00:15:38,201 Speaker 2: and that's when they saw the glimpse of a car. 240 00:15:39,321 --> 00:15:42,921 Speaker 2: It's not clear from the police reports that this was 241 00:15:43,161 --> 00:15:47,081 Speaker 2: fred Knew car. There are indications in the notes that 242 00:15:47,281 --> 00:15:49,121 Speaker 2: seemed to say that it might have been, but there's 243 00:15:49,161 --> 00:15:52,521 Speaker 2: nothing in Billy's interview that confirms it, so it is 244 00:15:52,681 --> 00:15:56,321 Speaker 2: a little bit confusing. Billy said that his car was 245 00:15:56,321 --> 00:15:58,721 Speaker 2: out of control at that point and traveling around fifty 246 00:15:58,761 --> 00:16:01,081 Speaker 2: miles an hour. He said he tried to miss the 247 00:16:01,121 --> 00:16:02,881 Speaker 2: car that was on the side of the road, but 248 00:16:02,961 --> 00:16:05,721 Speaker 2: his right front fender hit the left front fender of 249 00:16:05,761 --> 00:16:08,961 Speaker 2: the stalled vehicle. He said that when they hit, he 250 00:16:09,041 --> 00:16:11,761 Speaker 2: instinctively grabbed his girlfriend's head, but she had already hit 251 00:16:11,801 --> 00:16:14,081 Speaker 2: the windshield and she was screaming about being in pain, 252 00:16:14,801 --> 00:16:16,641 Speaker 2: so Billy said he jumped out of the car to 253 00:16:16,721 --> 00:16:20,321 Speaker 2: make sure everyone was okay. Charles went to look at 254 00:16:20,321 --> 00:16:22,761 Speaker 2: the car they hit, and when Charles walked back to 255 00:16:22,761 --> 00:16:26,481 Speaker 2: their vehicle, Billy said that Charles told him you just 256 00:16:26,601 --> 00:16:30,721 Speaker 2: killed a man. At some point, Billy said, two black 257 00:16:30,761 --> 00:16:32,521 Speaker 2: men stopped and gave them a ride to be a 258 00:16:32,561 --> 00:16:36,321 Speaker 2: nearby service station. Billy said once he got to the 259 00:16:36,321 --> 00:16:39,641 Speaker 2: service station, he asked an employee there to call the police. 260 00:16:40,241 --> 00:16:43,001 Speaker 2: Then at some point he walked to town and learned 261 00:16:43,001 --> 00:16:46,961 Speaker 2: that the police had arrested Charles. Billy said he got scared, 262 00:16:47,761 --> 00:16:50,161 Speaker 2: so somehow he ended up back at the motel where 263 00:16:50,201 --> 00:16:52,841 Speaker 2: he had been staying. He said that's when someone came 264 00:16:52,881 --> 00:16:55,441 Speaker 2: in and told him he was wanted, so he crawled 265 00:16:55,521 --> 00:16:58,761 Speaker 2: under a bed to hide. The police found him, but 266 00:16:58,801 --> 00:17:03,441 Speaker 2: after questioning Billy, they released him. Fred Knude didn't die 267 00:17:03,521 --> 00:17:07,441 Speaker 2: from injuries from a car crash. He died from three gunshot. 268 00:17:07,481 --> 00:17:12,961 Speaker 2: Winds police interviewed another man named Oscar Woods. Now Oscar 269 00:17:13,041 --> 00:17:15,761 Speaker 2: Woods also stopped at the scene of the accident that night, 270 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:18,241 Speaker 2: but he was not one of the two men who 271 00:17:18,281 --> 00:17:21,201 Speaker 2: gave Billy and Charles a ride. In fact, he told 272 00:17:21,201 --> 00:17:24,481 Speaker 2: police when he stopped, they didn't seem concerned about getting 273 00:17:24,521 --> 00:17:27,121 Speaker 2: a ride. They told him to get out of there. 274 00:17:27,921 --> 00:17:31,400 Speaker 2: Oscar said. This would have been around one am. And 275 00:17:31,441 --> 00:17:34,321 Speaker 2: it's interesting because Oscar said that when he stopped, he 276 00:17:34,360 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 2: saw two or three white males. There's no mention of 277 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:40,640 Speaker 2: any women. And when he asked if everyone was okay, 278 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:43,561 Speaker 2: one of the men told him not really, someone was, 279 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:47,680 Speaker 2: and then he said the man said something odd and 280 00:17:47,721 --> 00:17:51,441 Speaker 2: that the men were laughing. At this point, Oscar asked 281 00:17:51,441 --> 00:17:53,361 Speaker 2: if they had called the police, and they said yes. 282 00:17:54,321 --> 00:17:56,201 Speaker 2: After one of the men told him there was a 283 00:17:56,241 --> 00:17:59,441 Speaker 2: dead man there, they asked Oscar if he had a flashlight. 284 00:17:59,761 --> 00:18:02,441 Speaker 2: He said he always kept a pocket flashlight with him, 285 00:18:02,521 --> 00:18:05,600 Speaker 2: so he got out his pocket flashlight and saw Fred 286 00:18:05,721 --> 00:18:07,681 Speaker 2: lying there on the side of the road in a 287 00:18:07,681 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 2: pool of blood. Oscar said, they reiterated that they had 288 00:18:12,121 --> 00:18:15,761 Speaker 2: already called the police and suggested that quote the best 289 00:18:15,761 --> 00:18:17,841 Speaker 2: thing that he could do is drive away from here 290 00:18:18,201 --> 00:18:21,561 Speaker 2: end quote, and Oscar said that's what he did. He 291 00:18:21,761 --> 00:18:24,401 Speaker 2: seemed to realize he might have walked into a very 292 00:18:24,441 --> 00:18:28,801 Speaker 2: bad situation, and he got out of there fast. Now, 293 00:18:28,801 --> 00:18:32,201 Speaker 2: this is a weird sequence of events. Billy hiding from 294 00:18:32,241 --> 00:18:35,481 Speaker 2: the police seems a bit suspect, but then again, he 295 00:18:35,561 --> 00:18:38,761 Speaker 2: could have been driving while intoxicated, and also he may 296 00:18:38,801 --> 00:18:41,201 Speaker 2: have believed that he killed a man in that accident. 297 00:18:41,921 --> 00:18:45,121 Speaker 2: This could explain why he hid from police. But if 298 00:18:45,161 --> 00:18:50,360 Speaker 2: that's the case, why was he allegedly laughing. Police attempted 299 00:18:50,361 --> 00:18:53,801 Speaker 2: to verify Billy and Charles's stories. One of the owners 300 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:56,361 Speaker 2: at the Starlight nightclub, who said she was collecting cover 301 00:18:56,481 --> 00:19:00,561 Speaker 2: charges on September twenty seven, remembered that Charles Bardino and 302 00:19:00,641 --> 00:19:03,521 Speaker 2: Billy Joe Smith came in at around ten pm with 303 00:19:03,561 --> 00:19:07,120 Speaker 2: two women. This person told police that the four of 304 00:19:07,161 --> 00:19:09,721 Speaker 2: them sat at a table and left at around eleven pm, 305 00:19:09,881 --> 00:19:14,041 Speaker 2: and they did not return that night. So police seemed 306 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 2: to be solving the mystery of the hidden run, but 307 00:19:16,921 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 2: when it came to Fred's murder and the robbery, the 308 00:19:20,161 --> 00:19:23,921 Speaker 2: police were stumped. There's no evidence in this case, Faule. 309 00:19:24,041 --> 00:19:27,201 Speaker 2: The police ever tracked down the two women who were 310 00:19:27,281 --> 00:19:30,721 Speaker 2: with Charles and Billy to get their stories. I would 311 00:19:30,761 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 2: have had a lot of questions for them, what time 312 00:19:34,001 --> 00:19:37,400 Speaker 2: the women went home, and also if Charles or Billy 313 00:19:37,561 --> 00:19:39,801 Speaker 2: noticed the blood in the front seat of the car 314 00:19:40,121 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 2: or the burnmarks on the driver's seat. Police also stated 315 00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:47,961 Speaker 2: publicly after that that they did not believe that Fred 316 00:19:48,001 --> 00:19:50,321 Speaker 2: was involved in the robbery, but that his vehicle may 317 00:19:50,361 --> 00:19:53,521 Speaker 2: have been. So did Fred know the men involved in 318 00:19:53,521 --> 00:19:56,841 Speaker 2: the robbery or was the shooting just a total coincidence. 319 00:19:57,721 --> 00:20:00,561 Speaker 2: I wonder if they were related, but maybe not in 320 00:20:00,601 --> 00:20:03,761 Speaker 2: the way police think, because we learned something else from 321 00:20:03,801 --> 00:20:07,600 Speaker 2: Fred's son, Jason. Fred worked the night shift at the 322 00:20:07,641 --> 00:20:10,801 Speaker 2: trucking company and he normally came home in the mornings. 323 00:20:11,241 --> 00:20:14,640 Speaker 2: But on the morning of September twenty seventh, Fred Knew 324 00:20:15,041 --> 00:20:30,961 Speaker 2: never came home. So where was he that day? According 325 00:20:31,001 --> 00:20:34,561 Speaker 2: to police notes, Fred's father, Fred new Senior, believed that 326 00:20:34,601 --> 00:20:37,160 Speaker 2: his son got off work at around eight fifteen am 327 00:20:37,361 --> 00:20:40,721 Speaker 2: on the morning of September twenty seventh. Now, normally Fred 328 00:20:40,721 --> 00:20:43,041 Speaker 2: would have come home after that, but on that Friday 329 00:20:43,401 --> 00:20:47,120 Speaker 2: he did. Fred's father told police that other than a 330 00:20:47,161 --> 00:20:51,041 Speaker 2: single DWI, Fred Junior had never had any problems with 331 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:55,441 Speaker 2: the law and had no criminal record. But Fred's son, Jason, 332 00:20:55,481 --> 00:20:59,201 Speaker 2: said he's always wondered if his mother hid things from him, 333 00:20:59,441 --> 00:21:02,521 Speaker 2: things about his father and what she believed his father 334 00:21:02,601 --> 00:21:05,600 Speaker 2: may have been doing that day, possibly drinking or hanging 335 00:21:05,601 --> 00:21:08,080 Speaker 2: out with other people or other women. 336 00:21:09,041 --> 00:21:11,281 Speaker 4: That's stuff that as I got older, you know, I 337 00:21:11,321 --> 00:21:14,041 Speaker 4: had more quizkis. I always thought she might have been 338 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:16,721 Speaker 4: hiding something till mean she was till I got opened 339 00:21:16,801 --> 00:21:21,201 Speaker 4: with I remember when my grandmother on my mother's side died. 340 00:21:21,641 --> 00:21:25,801 Speaker 4: You know, my grandpa was like Jason, if he would 341 00:21:25,801 --> 00:21:28,201 Speaker 4: have been home, that wouldn't happen me. 342 00:21:30,121 --> 00:21:32,321 Speaker 2: After the time when Fred would have gotten off work. 343 00:21:32,321 --> 00:21:35,721 Speaker 2: On September twenty seventh, It's not clear what happened that day, 344 00:21:36,241 --> 00:21:39,721 Speaker 2: but police did discover that at some point Fred was 345 00:21:39,761 --> 00:21:44,241 Speaker 2: hanging out at Maudet's Diner and Joiner. Arkansas interviewed a 346 00:21:44,241 --> 00:21:48,201 Speaker 2: waitress named Charlene Dixon. She said that around six pm, 347 00:21:48,681 --> 00:21:51,561 Speaker 2: Fred came in and sat by himself in a corner booth. 348 00:21:52,361 --> 00:21:55,120 Speaker 2: Police showed her a picture of Fred and she positively 349 00:21:55,161 --> 00:21:58,080 Speaker 2: identified him. She said she knew the man is Fred, 350 00:21:58,441 --> 00:22:01,441 Speaker 2: she didn't know his last name. She said that Fred 351 00:22:01,481 --> 00:22:04,841 Speaker 2: didn't talk much and that quote he was pretty well 352 00:22:04,921 --> 00:22:07,681 Speaker 2: drunk when he came in. She said that he drank 353 00:22:07,721 --> 00:22:10,321 Speaker 2: about four cans of beer, played the jukebox a couple 354 00:22:10,321 --> 00:22:12,761 Speaker 2: of times, and that at some point he hit on her. 355 00:22:13,241 --> 00:22:15,001 Speaker 2: That he asked her to go out with him, and 356 00:22:15,041 --> 00:22:19,201 Speaker 2: that she refused. Charlene said that Fred was wearing a 357 00:22:19,321 --> 00:22:22,481 Speaker 2: check shirt with faded Levi jeans and that around eight 358 00:22:22,561 --> 00:22:25,360 Speaker 2: thirty or nine pm, Fred left the diner and that 359 00:22:25,441 --> 00:22:28,400 Speaker 2: he did not come back. One of her co workers 360 00:22:28,521 --> 00:22:32,360 Speaker 2: also said she saw Fred at the dinner alone. Where 361 00:22:32,361 --> 00:22:35,880 Speaker 2: did Fred go after he left the dinner? Nothing in 362 00:22:35,881 --> 00:22:40,721 Speaker 2: the case fall indicates that police ever found out. Jason 363 00:22:40,961 --> 00:22:43,401 Speaker 2: is still trying to figure out what his father did 364 00:22:43,401 --> 00:22:43,961 Speaker 2: that day. 365 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:47,601 Speaker 4: He was supposed to have gotten off work Friday mornings, 366 00:22:47,881 --> 00:22:51,521 Speaker 4: and he didn't come home. I think he'd been out drinking. 367 00:22:52,121 --> 00:22:55,441 Speaker 4: There might even been maybe other women, you know, but 368 00:22:55,761 --> 00:23:00,600 Speaker 4: a thief, a robber, you know, he was not. My 369 00:23:00,721 --> 00:23:04,281 Speaker 4: dad was a loner, you know, he didn't run with 370 00:23:04,401 --> 00:23:05,080 Speaker 4: many people. 371 00:23:06,481 --> 00:23:09,120 Speaker 2: Jason said that even though his father's car matched the 372 00:23:09,121 --> 00:23:11,761 Speaker 2: description of the vehicle seen near the scene of the robbery, 373 00:23:12,161 --> 00:23:14,880 Speaker 2: he did not believe that his father would have ever 374 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:18,641 Speaker 2: purposely been involved in a robbery. He wondered if maybe 375 00:23:18,641 --> 00:23:22,281 Speaker 2: something else happened, If maybe his father was the person 376 00:23:22,321 --> 00:23:25,081 Speaker 2: who ran out of gas, who Charles and Billy had encountered, 377 00:23:25,721 --> 00:23:29,281 Speaker 2: and then maybe the men who robbed the convenience store 378 00:23:29,321 --> 00:23:32,281 Speaker 2: also saw him there and decided to rob him too. 379 00:23:32,561 --> 00:23:34,241 Speaker 4: You know, I ex played it out in my head 380 00:23:34,361 --> 00:23:37,160 Speaker 4: that somebody robbed the gas station and seen him and 381 00:23:37,241 --> 00:23:38,080 Speaker 4: robbed him too. 382 00:23:40,321 --> 00:23:43,801 Speaker 2: Maybe Fred New's car had a breakdown, maybe his kill 383 00:23:44,001 --> 00:23:47,481 Speaker 2: flagged him down. Or could it be possible that Fred 384 00:23:47,561 --> 00:23:50,201 Speaker 2: knew was in his vehicle with the men who robbed 385 00:23:50,201 --> 00:23:53,121 Speaker 2: the service station. Did he hang out with those men 386 00:23:53,281 --> 00:23:55,921 Speaker 2: or meet up with them and then somehow unwittingly get 387 00:23:56,001 --> 00:23:59,680 Speaker 2: dragged into the robbery, or could he have been kidnapped 388 00:24:00,001 --> 00:24:03,481 Speaker 2: or just stopped randomly to give them a lift. All 389 00:24:03,521 --> 00:24:07,601 Speaker 2: of these were scenarios that the police probably considered. Then 390 00:24:07,761 --> 00:24:11,761 Speaker 2: there was the state of Fred's vehicle. Investigator's notes indicated 391 00:24:11,801 --> 00:24:15,160 Speaker 2: the driver's seat had been burned, that the car was 392 00:24:15,321 --> 00:24:18,281 Speaker 2: completely out of gas, and that a line leading to 393 00:24:18,321 --> 00:24:21,881 Speaker 2: the battery had been cut. This was never really explained 394 00:24:21,921 --> 00:24:25,041 Speaker 2: because after an initial flurry of interviews, there were no 395 00:24:25,161 --> 00:24:29,561 Speaker 2: more newspaper clippings, the case disappeared from headlines, and no 396 00:24:29,641 --> 00:24:34,081 Speaker 2: one was arrested or charged. In December of nineteen seventy four, 397 00:24:34,161 --> 00:24:38,001 Speaker 2: according to police records, the case was declared officially closed 398 00:24:38,281 --> 00:24:42,241 Speaker 2: due to all leads being exhausted. And then one year 399 00:24:42,321 --> 00:24:46,801 Speaker 2: later there was another, this time at the Penis service station. 400 00:24:47,641 --> 00:24:52,321 Speaker 2: Another attendant was attacked and this time the robbery ended 401 00:24:52,441 --> 00:24:56,880 Speaker 2: in murder. Terry Wyrick, the nineteen year old son of 402 00:24:56,921 --> 00:24:59,721 Speaker 2: Buster Wyreck, the cashier on duty at the gas station 403 00:24:59,801 --> 00:25:02,080 Speaker 2: that was robbed the same night Fred Knew was murdered, 404 00:25:02,561 --> 00:25:05,481 Speaker 2: was working at the FeNiS service station when two men 405 00:25:05,601 --> 00:25:09,241 Speaker 2: came in to rob that store. This robbery was brutal. 406 00:25:09,921 --> 00:25:13,401 Speaker 2: After stealing the money, one of the men attacked Terry 407 00:25:13,401 --> 00:25:17,681 Speaker 2: with a sledgehammer, the other one shot him. Terry survived 408 00:25:17,721 --> 00:25:21,041 Speaker 2: the initial attack. He was rushed to the hospital but 409 00:25:21,161 --> 00:25:25,561 Speaker 2: later died. In that case, police caught the perpetrators quickly. 410 00:25:26,161 --> 00:25:31,401 Speaker 2: They questioned two men, Willie Fowler and Clarence Alexander. Clarence 411 00:25:31,441 --> 00:25:34,001 Speaker 2: admitted to police that he and Willie planned the robbery 412 00:25:34,041 --> 00:25:36,080 Speaker 2: in front of a friend of theirs named Edward Fowler. 413 00:25:36,601 --> 00:25:40,281 Speaker 2: Edward Fowler confirmed that story. He told police Willy and 414 00:25:40,281 --> 00:25:44,201 Speaker 2: Clarence told him they were planning to rob the David 415 00:25:44,201 --> 00:25:47,600 Speaker 2: Exon station, but then they decided to rob the Phenis 416 00:25:47,601 --> 00:25:51,400 Speaker 2: station instead. Edward told police he told his friends he 417 00:25:51,441 --> 00:25:53,840 Speaker 2: did not want to participate in the robbery, so he 418 00:25:53,881 --> 00:25:57,321 Speaker 2: asked Clarence and Willie to take him home. Clarence told 419 00:25:57,321 --> 00:26:01,121 Speaker 2: police Willie hit Terry with a sledgehammer and Clarence shot him. 420 00:26:01,761 --> 00:26:04,001 Speaker 2: He said that Terry tried to grab his arm and 421 00:26:04,001 --> 00:26:07,281 Speaker 2: that he shot him again because Terry wouldn't turn him loose. 422 00:26:08,881 --> 00:26:13,601 Speaker 2: Clarence and Willie ended up stealing around fifty dollars. Willie 423 00:26:13,641 --> 00:26:16,681 Speaker 2: and Clarence were both arrested in charge with capital murder, 424 00:26:16,881 --> 00:26:19,600 Speaker 2: and both were sentenced to life in prison without the 425 00:26:19,641 --> 00:26:24,001 Speaker 2: possibility of parole. The fact that another robbery, this time 426 00:26:24,041 --> 00:26:26,840 Speaker 2: with a murder, and the fact that the victim was 427 00:26:26,881 --> 00:26:29,761 Speaker 2: the son of the robbery victim from one year earlier, 428 00:26:30,001 --> 00:26:34,001 Speaker 2: made headlines. Some people wondered if the two cases could 429 00:26:34,001 --> 00:26:38,400 Speaker 2: be connected somehow, but a very cursory examination of the 430 00:26:38,441 --> 00:26:41,921 Speaker 2: case file shows that that could not be true, mainly 431 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:44,841 Speaker 2: because the men who robbed the store did not match 432 00:26:44,881 --> 00:26:47,241 Speaker 2: the description of the men who robbed the mobile station 433 00:26:47,321 --> 00:26:51,081 Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy four. For one thing, Both men who 434 00:26:51,121 --> 00:26:54,321 Speaker 2: robbed the Phenis station and killed Terry were black, while 435 00:26:54,361 --> 00:26:57,281 Speaker 2: his suspects of the nineteen seventy four robbery were both white. 436 00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 2: Over the years, police followed multiple leads. At one point, 437 00:27:02,641 --> 00:27:07,561 Speaker 2: they interviewed another potential suspect named Billy Woodard. Billy Woodard 438 00:27:07,601 --> 00:27:11,561 Speaker 2: was arrested for another homicide in Craigshead County. The victim 439 00:27:11,681 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 2: was also shot with a shotgun multiple times near Billy's vehicle, 440 00:27:16,121 --> 00:27:19,080 Speaker 2: so there were some similarities to this murder and fred 441 00:27:19,121 --> 00:27:23,160 Speaker 2: News murder. Billy admitted to police that he committed the murder. 442 00:27:23,521 --> 00:27:26,921 Speaker 2: He told police he was driving the victim in his Volkswagen. 443 00:27:27,721 --> 00:27:30,201 Speaker 2: Billy and his victim were driving down a secluded road 444 00:27:30,281 --> 00:27:33,561 Speaker 2: when the Volkswagen ran out of gas. Billy told police 445 00:27:33,561 --> 00:27:36,041 Speaker 2: he was pouring gas into a tank from a portable 446 00:27:36,041 --> 00:27:38,481 Speaker 2: gas can. The victim said he was going to walk 447 00:27:38,561 --> 00:27:41,080 Speaker 2: up the road to get some shade underneath a tree. 448 00:27:41,161 --> 00:27:43,721 Speaker 2: At that point, Billy said he pulled a twelve game 449 00:27:44,041 --> 00:27:47,721 Speaker 2: pump Revelation shotgun from the car and shot the victim 450 00:27:47,761 --> 00:27:50,241 Speaker 2: in the back of the shoulder. Then Billy said he 451 00:27:50,281 --> 00:27:53,921 Speaker 2: shot him in the head multiple times. Billy then drug 452 00:27:54,001 --> 00:27:56,360 Speaker 2: the victim's body off and dumped it in the woods. 453 00:27:57,001 --> 00:28:00,481 Speaker 2: Then he picked up the shell casings. Now, Billy admitted 454 00:28:00,521 --> 00:28:03,681 Speaker 2: all this to law enforcement, but he also completely denied 455 00:28:03,761 --> 00:28:06,801 Speaker 2: having any involvement in the homicide of Fred Knew. He 456 00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:09,001 Speaker 2: said he was only in the area where Fred was 457 00:28:09,001 --> 00:28:11,201 Speaker 2: shot once in his life, and it was long after 458 00:28:11,241 --> 00:28:14,600 Speaker 2: the homicide. It seems as though this lead was dropped 459 00:28:14,881 --> 00:28:18,961 Speaker 2: because despite the circumstantial similarities, there was no evidence that 460 00:28:19,001 --> 00:28:21,881 Speaker 2: Billy Woodard was in any way involved in Fred's death. 461 00:28:23,961 --> 00:28:27,641 Speaker 2: Kim said that over the years, her mother never gave 462 00:28:27,761 --> 00:28:30,721 Speaker 2: up on getting answers about what truly happened to her husband. 463 00:28:31,361 --> 00:28:34,401 Speaker 2: This included her mother revisiting the scene of the gas 464 00:28:34,441 --> 00:28:37,561 Speaker 2: station robbery and going to the sheriff's office to talk 465 00:28:37,601 --> 00:28:39,321 Speaker 2: to detectives about the investigation. 466 00:28:40,241 --> 00:28:43,681 Speaker 3: Oh my goodness, my mother. Her best friend even said, 467 00:28:43,921 --> 00:28:45,601 Speaker 3: I'm worried to death that your mother is going to 468 00:28:45,681 --> 00:28:49,801 Speaker 3: get her stuff killed because she was relentless on trying 469 00:28:49,841 --> 00:28:54,601 Speaker 3: to find out what happened and who was responsible for it. 470 00:28:55,521 --> 00:28:59,521 Speaker 3: I know there were multiple times that she went to 471 00:28:59,641 --> 00:29:02,601 Speaker 3: the sheriff's office I know there were multiple times that 472 00:29:02,681 --> 00:29:06,401 Speaker 3: she went out on her own to question people. I 473 00:29:06,441 --> 00:29:10,361 Speaker 3: remember her going to that gas station time and time again, 474 00:29:11,441 --> 00:29:14,841 Speaker 3: and probably not the smartest thing that she could do, 475 00:29:15,321 --> 00:29:21,201 Speaker 3: that she was desperate to know. It tormented her, the 476 00:29:21,241 --> 00:29:27,081 Speaker 3: fact of not knowing who was responsible, how it happened, 477 00:29:27,961 --> 00:29:31,641 Speaker 3: and you know, like took his wallet so they knew 478 00:29:31,761 --> 00:29:35,321 Speaker 3: who he was and where we lived, and as we 479 00:29:35,321 --> 00:29:39,841 Speaker 3: were older. She said, it just petrified her to think 480 00:29:39,881 --> 00:29:43,601 Speaker 3: that they might come to our house. She did not 481 00:29:43,841 --> 00:29:47,721 Speaker 3: have a long high and she never got over. 482 00:29:47,481 --> 00:29:57,521 Speaker 2: The Kim said, they've gotten very little information from detectives 483 00:29:57,561 --> 00:30:00,881 Speaker 2: over the years, and there's very little physical evidence after 484 00:30:00,921 --> 00:30:04,001 Speaker 2: all this time, but she does believe that there is 485 00:30:04,081 --> 00:30:08,081 Speaker 2: some evidence that detectives could follow up on. There's the fingerprint. 486 00:30:08,521 --> 00:30:11,721 Speaker 2: Police found a single latent fingerprint on the rear view 487 00:30:11,721 --> 00:30:15,321 Speaker 2: mirror of Fred's vehicle. At first, it was identified as 488 00:30:15,361 --> 00:30:18,561 Speaker 2: being possibly a match for Billy Joe Smith, the man 489 00:30:18,681 --> 00:30:22,001 Speaker 2: who ran into Fred's car and fled the scene, which 490 00:30:22,041 --> 00:30:25,121 Speaker 2: begged the question what would Billy Smith have been doing 491 00:30:25,201 --> 00:30:29,721 Speaker 2: inside Fred's vehicle touching the rear view mirror. This seemed 492 00:30:29,721 --> 00:30:33,321 Speaker 2: like a promising lead, but later more Advanced testing revealed 493 00:30:33,401 --> 00:30:36,041 Speaker 2: Billy could not be a match for that print, so 494 00:30:36,641 --> 00:30:40,121 Speaker 2: who else could have been in the vehicle. Kim also 495 00:30:40,241 --> 00:30:44,121 Speaker 2: said police found other unidentified fingerprints that were move from 496 00:30:44,121 --> 00:30:46,841 Speaker 2: the car, and that over the years, she heard that 497 00:30:46,921 --> 00:30:49,841 Speaker 2: a woman who is now in a nursing home may 498 00:30:50,081 --> 00:30:51,681 Speaker 2: have information about the murder. 499 00:30:52,601 --> 00:30:57,041 Speaker 3: I mean, yes, I was like closure. I was loved 500 00:30:57,481 --> 00:31:01,121 Speaker 3: for my mother to have that before she passed way, 501 00:31:01,161 --> 00:31:07,401 Speaker 3: But wow, I would I just give anything for Jason 502 00:31:07,641 --> 00:31:08,601 Speaker 3: as a closure. 503 00:31:11,121 --> 00:31:13,601 Speaker 2: Jason said that he was grateful that we filed the 504 00:31:13,601 --> 00:31:17,201 Speaker 2: Foyer request and got information that he said his family 505 00:31:17,321 --> 00:31:21,441 Speaker 2: has not been able to access for decades. I would 506 00:31:21,521 --> 00:31:23,801 Speaker 2: like to do more, and I know it's been fifty years, 507 00:31:24,201 --> 00:31:27,401 Speaker 2: but I'm hoping that in such a small town, there 508 00:31:27,481 --> 00:31:30,881 Speaker 2: may be someone out there who knows something, Someone who 509 00:31:30,921 --> 00:31:33,641 Speaker 2: was at Maudet's diner that day, or driving along the 510 00:31:33,721 --> 00:31:36,321 Speaker 2: highway that night, or in the Starlight club that night, 511 00:31:37,241 --> 00:31:40,761 Speaker 2: someone who may have seen Fred New on September twenty seventh, 512 00:31:40,841 --> 00:31:44,561 Speaker 2: nineteen seventy four. Someone who can help fill in those 513 00:31:44,641 --> 00:31:46,481 Speaker 2: missing hours for his family. 514 00:31:50,201 --> 00:31:55,601 Speaker 4: The worst part of losing somebody and not knowing what 515 00:31:55,881 --> 00:32:00,321 Speaker 4: really happens. They left my dad on the side of 516 00:32:00,361 --> 00:32:04,761 Speaker 4: the road like a piece of trash. That's the worst 517 00:32:04,761 --> 00:32:08,321 Speaker 4: part of it. You can edit this habit, you need to, 518 00:32:08,801 --> 00:32:12,761 Speaker 4: But for somebody to do that to my dad and 519 00:32:12,921 --> 00:32:18,481 Speaker 4: have any chance of getting into heaven, I can't live 520 00:32:18,601 --> 00:32:23,721 Speaker 4: with this that somebody on their deathbed should ask for 521 00:32:23,721 --> 00:32:31,161 Speaker 4: forgiveness and and get that done. It is terrible. Somebody 522 00:32:31,241 --> 00:32:34,681 Speaker 4: knows something whereas they're scared to say it. But I 523 00:32:34,681 --> 00:32:37,201 Speaker 4: would like a little bit of closer, you know, That's 524 00:32:37,201 --> 00:32:38,041 Speaker 4: what I would hope for. 525 00:32:42,361 --> 00:32:47,401 Speaker 2: I'm Catherine Townsend. This is Helen Gone Murder Line. Helen 526 00:32:47,441 --> 00:32:49,601 Speaker 2: Gone Murder Line is a production of School of Humans 527 00:32:49,601 --> 00:32:53,041 Speaker 2: and iHeart Podcasts. It's written and narrated by me Catherine 528 00:32:53,081 --> 00:32:57,281 Speaker 2: Townsend and produced by Gabby Watts. Special thanks to Amy 529 00:32:57,321 --> 00:33:00,561 Speaker 2: Tubbs for her research assistance and James Wheaton for legal review. 530 00:33:01,161 --> 00:33:04,241 Speaker 2: Noah Kamer mixed and scored this episode. Our theme song 531 00:33:04,321 --> 00:33:08,721 Speaker 2: is by Ben Sale. Executive producers are Virginia Prescott, Brandon Barr, 532 00:33:08,801 --> 00:33:12,081 Speaker 2: and L. C. Crowley. Listen to Helen Gone ad free 533 00:33:12,161 --> 00:33:15,241 Speaker 2: by subscribing to the iHeart True Crime Plus channel on 534 00:33:15,281 --> 00:33:18,921 Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts. If you were interested in seeing documents and 535 00:33:18,961 --> 00:33:21,561 Speaker 2: materials from the case. You can follow the show on 536 00:33:21,601 --> 00:33:26,001 Speaker 2: Instagram at Helen Gonepod. If you have a case you'd 537 00:33:26,041 --> 00:33:28,201 Speaker 2: like me and my team to look into, you can 538 00:33:28,241 --> 00:33:30,681 Speaker 2: reach out to us at our Helen Gone Murder Line 539 00:33:30,721 --> 00:33:34,161 Speaker 2: at six seven eight seven four four six one four five. 540 00:33:34,761 --> 00:33:37,841 Speaker 2: That's six seven eight seven four four six one four 541 00:33:38,041 --> 00:33:38,241 Speaker 2: five 542 00:33:43,761 --> 00:33:44,481 Speaker 1: Goal of Humans