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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discuss the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds. And Donald Trump says, I'm allowed to

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Speaker 1: do whatever I want with classified info. I'm shocked we

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Speaker 1: have such an interesting show. Today, Senator Bob Casey talks

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Speaker 1: to us about his run for reelection in this critical

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Speaker 1: swing state of Pennsylvania. Then we'll talk to New York

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Speaker 1: Times columnist and close personal friend of mine, Lydia Paul Green,

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Speaker 1: about her travel to Chad and how she covers the

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Speaker 1: story that haunt us. But first we have the Good

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Speaker 1: Liars Jason Selgvig, who has a live show on the

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Speaker 1: fifteenth of September in Brooklyn. Welcome to Fast Politics.

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Speaker 2: Jason, thanks for having me appreciate it.

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Speaker 1: You are a good liar. You are one of the

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Speaker 1: two good liars. Are you a good liar? Does everyone

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Speaker 1: ask you that? That's annoying? Never mind, don't answer that.

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Speaker 3: I don't know. I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Maybe I am a good liar. We came up with

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Speaker 2: a name about ten years ago, and it's there and

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Speaker 2: so it's got to stay. So yes, I am a

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Speaker 2: good liar. Technically, I don't know. If I am a

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Speaker 2: good liar technically though.

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Speaker 1: As someone who has the name of my mother's second

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Speaker 1: husband who I never met, I can speak to what

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Speaker 1: it's like to have a name that nobody realized would

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Speaker 1: haunt you forever.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I like the name of the Good Liars to

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Speaker 2: be honest, But yeah, it kind of changed. We've changed

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Speaker 2: kind of what we've done over the last couple of years.

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Speaker 2: You know, in twenty sixteen, we were exclusively pranking presidential candidates.

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Speaker 2: That was what we did for our movie Undecided. We've

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Speaker 2: kind of moved from where we started, which was like

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Speaker 2: basically acting like we were investment bankers at Occupy Wall

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Speaker 2: Street was the first thing to Rob and I did together.

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Speaker 1: That's perfect.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we had a movement called Occupy Occupy Wall Street.

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Speaker 2: We thought we were doing a sketch, but investment bankers

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Speaker 2: thought it was real and came down in actually protested

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Speaker 2: with us as we were making fun of them to

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Speaker 2: their face. So it's kind of evolved over time, and

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Speaker 2: now you're seeing more of these interviews that we've done.

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Speaker 2: We're still doing some prank sons of politicians. So nobody

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Speaker 2: should feel too safe in these primaries.

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Speaker 1: I don't think let me ask you, who do you

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Speaker 1: think is the most prankable politician right now?

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Speaker 2: Ooh, that's a good question. That's a good question of

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Speaker 2: avik Ramaswami is he's very smooth.

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Speaker 1: Hitting the head by truth, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: By true. And that was I saw that video. You

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Speaker 2: posted that video yesterday getting hit in the head with truth.

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Speaker 2: It's just beautiful symbolism, beautiful symbolism truth.

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Speaker 1: I would say that if you have a setup as

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Speaker 1: a politician that looks like something that comes from veep right,

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Speaker 1: you can pretty much guarantee that what will happen is

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Speaker 1: something that would happen on veep right.

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Speaker 2: You could almost hear the viep music playing underneath it

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Speaker 2: as it happened. I think he's funny though, I mean,

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Speaker 2: he's just it's so funny that he wants to raise

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Speaker 2: the voting age to twenty five. I mean, it's not funny,

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Speaker 2: it's like scary. But he like did that Eminem impression

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Speaker 2: or like a performance.

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Speaker 1: And then Eminem was like stop.

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Speaker 2: Right, but he did it, and it like the performance

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Speaker 2: was like he was really committed to it and it

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Speaker 2: kind of felt like a high school talent show when

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Speaker 2: he was doing it. And it's funny that he wants

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Speaker 2: to raise the voting age when he's actually acting like

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Speaker 2: an eighteen year old right now.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, his whole energy is this like and I say,

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Speaker 1: this is the mother of one debate kid and one

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Speaker 1: model u N kid, Like the worst of high school

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Speaker 1: debate is the vague.

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Speaker 2: Right, He's got the smarminess to him too, And it's funny.

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Speaker 2: We talked to We went to the debate in Milwaukee,

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Speaker 2: and it was very hot. It was very hot. There

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Speaker 2: was one hundred and fifteen feet index. That's really has

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Speaker 2: nothing to do with what I'm about to talk about.

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Speaker 1: But as in middle aged too, I really do want

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Speaker 1: to know about the weather, and also what you ate

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Speaker 1: and where you stayed. Continue.

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Speaker 2: Okay, well I'll get to my meals and lodging in

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Speaker 2: a second. But we talked to one of his supporters.

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Speaker 2: I talked to this guy who was in like a

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Speaker 2: it was like a colonial revel lutionary war style marching

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Speaker 2: band that was like for him. And I talked to

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Speaker 2: this guy and we found it like talking to Trump supporters,

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Speaker 2: that sometimes they kind of sound like Trump a little bit,

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Speaker 2: and this guy kind of sounded like Ramaswami, like he

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Speaker 2: sounded like he like was kind of sticking his nose

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Speaker 2: up at me. And I asked him about raising the

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Speaker 2: voting age to eighteen. I made the point that like

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Speaker 2: people you know believe they are sixty believe JFK. Junior

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Speaker 2: is currently the vice president, Like that doesn't mean you're informed.

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Speaker 2: And he said there are low like low information voting happens,

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Speaker 2: and some eighteen year olds you know, are not informed.

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Speaker 2: But I was very informed when I was eighteen. He

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Speaker 2: had to like throw in that. He was, like, I

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Speaker 2: am the exception of the rule because I am very smart,

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Speaker 2: just like my candidate. It was interesting to see them

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Speaker 2: body of the candidate.

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Speaker 1: That is amazing. What I think a lot of us

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Speaker 1: are interested in is who was there and who were

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Speaker 1: they excited about.

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Speaker 2: The biggest crowd of people were for Trump. There was

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Speaker 2: like a group of like forty to sixty people that

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Speaker 2: were kind of standing outside and they didn't move, you know,

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Speaker 2: they didn't go inside. They were just Trump spores that

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Speaker 2: made the trek there to support Donald Trump. But they

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Speaker 2: they were there, you know, not only to support Trump,

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Speaker 2: but to make fun of Ron DeSantis, which I thought

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Speaker 2: was kind of It was kind of nice to find

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Speaker 2: some common ground because they were making fun of him,

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Speaker 2: and some of that was kind.

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Speaker 1: Of funny for those who have somehow managed to blank

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Speaker 1: this from their brains.

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Speaker 2: And good for you. If that's good for you, I

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Speaker 2: wish I was you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, me too. Trump was not there.

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Speaker 2: He was not there. Not only was he not there,

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Speaker 2: he ran counter programming to the people on the day.

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Speaker 2: He showed such a lack of respect for the people

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Speaker 2: on the debate stage that he ran counter programming to

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Speaker 2: the debate. His own interview with Tucker Carlson on Twitter

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Speaker 2: on Twitter on X excuse me, it's X. Let's get

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Speaker 2: it right. Let's get it right.

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Speaker 1: Really, what am I doing?

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Speaker 2: They were the Trump supporters there making fun of Ronda Santis.

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Speaker 2: But you know, we kind of expected that there would

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Speaker 2: be kind of groups of people holding signs for their

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Speaker 2: man or woman running for president, but we really didn't

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Speaker 2: see a lot of support for the other candidates. Outward support.

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Speaker 2: There were a couple of Rondastanti's shirts, some Nicky Haley stuff,

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Speaker 2: but I literally I don't think de rometer. I saw

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Speaker 2: or talked to one person who was like, I'm so

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Speaker 2: excited about Mike Pence.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's like a statement that you say that

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Speaker 1: sounds like.

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Speaker 2: You're being iron No, but it literally literally not one person.

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Speaker 2: So it was it was interesting because it really did

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Speaker 2: feel like it was the B Team debate because it was.

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Speaker 2: And I was just shocked that people were still even

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Speaker 2: the people that were four other candidates that we talked to,

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Speaker 2: they still were like, well, I still would support Donald

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Speaker 2: Trump if he was the nominee. And it's just he's

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Speaker 2: just the lack of respect he's showing for all these

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Speaker 2: candidates running counter programming. His whole game is just making

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Speaker 2: fun of everybody, and they're still like, he would be

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Speaker 2: my guy. Nicky Haley doesn't make it, he'd he'd be

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Speaker 2: my guy. If Rondo Santis didn't make it, he'd be

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Speaker 2: my guy.

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Speaker 1: What I like about Trump is that there are people

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Speaker 1: on the right who are now making the case that

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Speaker 1: the indicts, because they help him with his base who

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Speaker 1: live on earth too, that they will somehow help him

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Speaker 1: with swing voters.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I look, I don't want to make any predictions.

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Speaker 2: I've it's so wrong about stuff so wrong at twenty sixteen.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. Maybe maybe who knows, because you talk

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Speaker 2: to talk to some people, you know, we talk to

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Speaker 2: people at Trump arow is who basically get their news

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Speaker 2: from Donald Trump, not from news sources like actually from

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Speaker 2: Donald Trump his social media and all that stuff.

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Speaker 1: Well, and also Newsmax right.

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Speaker 2: And Newsmax and uh Oa n which has kind of

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Speaker 2: fallen off, I think, but Newsmax is a big one now.

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Speaker 1: And the Epoch Times.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, and what is it right side right Side broadcasting.

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Speaker 1: Broadcasting Epoch Times though is fascinating because uh owned by

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Speaker 1: a Chinese cult. Jason, my next question for you, is

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Speaker 1: it the stupidest time to be alive?

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Speaker 2: Yes? Well, yes, yeah, it must be. It must be me.

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Speaker 2: It definitely feels that way. You know, we were at

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Speaker 2: January sixth, We were there. What happened that day, the

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Speaker 2: culination of just a guy, not a being able to

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Speaker 2: admit that he lost an election and just breaking him psychologically,

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Speaker 2: and it ended with like the storming of the US capital.

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Speaker 2: And now here we are, you know, three almost three

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Speaker 2: years later, and he is the leading candidate president. That

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Speaker 2: doesn't get much stupider than that, in my opinion, like

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Speaker 2: that is just the stupidest end result and the fact

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Speaker 2: that he's like neck and neck with Biden in these polls.

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Speaker 2: I just don't. I don't get it. There's part of it.

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Speaker 2: I just want to pull my hair out thinking about it,

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Speaker 2: like why is this happening? How is this happening in

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Speaker 2: the US. To answer your question, yes, this has to

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Speaker 2: be the stupidest timeline. We must have gotten off of

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Speaker 2: reality at some point, like there was like something happened,

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Speaker 2: there was like a glitch in the matrix or something,

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Speaker 2: and we've gone on this path that is just like

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Speaker 2: whatever the dumbest thing that could possibly happen happens. And yes,

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Speaker 2: so this is the stupidest timeline.

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Speaker 1: So let's just do two seconds here. Speaking of stupid

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Speaker 1: we are here talking about what's happening right now. Trump

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Speaker 1: has said he's allowed to do whatever he wants is

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Speaker 1: classified info. He's extremely excited to testify in the federal

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Speaker 1: government's case against him.

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Speaker 2: Okay, you think that's actually gonna happen. You think he's

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Speaker 2: actually going to testify. I don't think that's going to happen.

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Speaker 2: He also said he was going to show all the

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Speaker 2: voter fraud on that Monday. He was going to show

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Speaker 2: it all weeks.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, two weeks.

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Speaker 2: Also, he was gonna have a healthcare plan.

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Speaker 1: I don't know it's better than Obamacare. It's happening right now.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to, like, I don't really don't want to,

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Speaker 2: you know, put my food in my mouth here. But

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Speaker 2: I think maybe he might be lying. I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I mean, there's no history of him lying about everything ever,

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Speaker 2: so I don't know. I don't think his lawyers are

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Speaker 2: going to be like, you're not getting on the stamp.

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Speaker 1: They'd be like, we we don't want to get murdered.

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Speaker 1: Day three on the Ken Paxton impeachment trial. I mean,

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Speaker 1: this is must see TV discuss.

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Speaker 2: I think it's interesting that everyone kind of came together

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Speaker 2: in Texas to like compeach it. It's just you've got

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Speaker 2: Marjorie Taylor Green sticking up for him, which is just

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Speaker 2: I don't know if you want someone to endorse you

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Speaker 2: like I think. She tweeted about it last week. Two

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Speaker 2: days later, she was on Alex Jones show. Literally, okay,

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Speaker 2: back to the dumbest timeline. Yes, this is the dumbest timeline.

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Speaker 1: Do you see the video of Alex Jones mad at

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Speaker 1: Trump about the vaccines? No, right, I'll find that it's

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Speaker 1: something to you, But I mean it does seem like

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Speaker 1: Alex Jones is very much in this political milieu right now.

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Speaker 1: We have the sort of thought leaders of the Republican

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Speaker 1: Party Alex Jones, Marjorie Taylor Green, Ken Paxton.

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Speaker 2: This is another figure where it's you'd think, if the

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Speaker 2: Republican Party had any decency, like the fact that he's

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Speaker 2: said that the Sandy Hook bass shooting was fake, there

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Speaker 2: were actors, you'd think that's it.

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Speaker 1: Did you just say the sentence, if the Republican Party

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Speaker 1: had any decency, you enjoy two thousand and three.

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Speaker 2: That's funny because I was watching the RFK documentary, not

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Speaker 2: Junior money. The RFK documentary is on Netflix, came out

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Speaker 2: years ago, and I just watched it because you.

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Speaker 1: Know, Junior is actually going to be the vice president.

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Speaker 2: No, that's JFK Junior. Sorry, I hate fact check. You

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Speaker 2: here JFK Junior, And he's not going to be the

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Speaker 2: vice president. He is currently the vice president and the

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Speaker 2: president right now. According to my sources. These are my sources,

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Speaker 2: that is is actually JFK Senior. I'm not even kidding,

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Speaker 2: like this sounds like I'm like making something up, but

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Speaker 2: this is something we have heard from multiple people. The

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Speaker 2: JFK Senior who would be I think one hundred.

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Speaker 3: I think.

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Speaker 2: I asked the guy, it's like, would he be like

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Speaker 2: one hundred and five right now? And he was like

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Speaker 2: one hundred and three, and I was like, I'm so

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Speaker 2: all right, I got it.

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Speaker 1: Mess that up. The people who think Biden is too

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Speaker 1: old to run are quite happy with their real president

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Speaker 1: who was one hundred and three years old and also dead.

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Speaker 2: Right, currently dead, currently dead JFK. And it's not like

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Speaker 2: it's like there's a question. This isn't like, you know,

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Speaker 2: like JFK senior or junior, excuse me. They're like, well,

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Speaker 2: maybe the plane didn't crash. He knew about it, so

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Speaker 2: he escaped it and all this stuff like there's a

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Speaker 2: video of like some pretty gruesome stuff like brains and stuff,

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Speaker 2: like we know that this happened.

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Speaker 1: Oliver Stone made movies about it, so we know it's true.

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Speaker 2: That's true. You know. I tried to watch that recently

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Speaker 2: and I couldn't believe that this was like the movie

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Speaker 2: that everyone loved so much years ago.

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Speaker 1: Are you younger than we are?

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Speaker 2: I was born in the eighties. That's all. I'll say.

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Speaker 2: That's all.

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Speaker 1: I'll say. That's not good, all right, We're never having

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Speaker 1: you back.

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Speaker 2: Thanks, because we should.

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Speaker 1: That's all right. Anyone younger than us is out.

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Speaker 2: This is like a little bit sounding like a Republican

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Speaker 2: presidential candidate and how baby, Yeah, it's a little odd

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Speaker 2: only fascist and we're raising the guesting age.

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Speaker 1: But I have to say, like here we are watching this,

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Speaker 1: I truly believe that we're in a moment where the

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Speaker 1: mainstream media and again, like I don't want to be

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Speaker 1: one of those people who talks about the mainstream media

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Speaker 1: and doesn't admit to be a member of it. I

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Speaker 1: am a member of it. I write for mainstream media organizations.

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Speaker 1: I go on. But it does seem like we're in

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Speaker 1: a moment where the mainstream media is so incredibly despondent

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Speaker 1: about having to do twenty nineteen again.

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Speaker 2: Just like it's a rerun and we're like the last

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Speaker 2: thing people want to do is is live again.

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Speaker 1: This yeah, yea yeah, I mean, do you think that's right?

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Speaker 1: Do you see that?

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Speaker 2: I mean, are you excited for this election?

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Speaker 1: I'm resigned to reality, and I you know, look what

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Speaker 1: I love it for Republicans to be like, you know,

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Speaker 1: didn't you say something hilarious about Republicans choosing decency? You know,

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Speaker 1: maybe we shouldn't nominate this guy who has been impeached

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Speaker 1: twice and has all the indictments. Perhaps he might not

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Speaker 1: be the big winner we think he is. But I

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Speaker 1: just can't imagine that happens.

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Speaker 2: It's like they've lost control of the train, really, because

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Speaker 2: it's the people for better or worse in democracy. The

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Speaker 2: people are behind him solidly. What can you do? Lots

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Speaker 2: of mainstream Republicans tried in twenty sixteen. You remember Mitt

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Speaker 2: Romney's speech, and other people were speaking up like, this

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Speaker 2: is not where we want the party to go. This

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Speaker 2: is where the party is. It is the Trump Party.

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Speaker 2: There isn't a Republican party. It's not the same. It's

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Speaker 2: definitely not. You know, you hear Mike Pence saying, you

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Speaker 2: gave a good, big speech in New Hampshire. I want

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Speaker 2: to go back a big speech meeting, like no one

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Speaker 2: talked about it. It happened two days ago, but it

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Speaker 2: was like supposed to be his big speech. You want

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Speaker 2: to go back to the Reagan Republicans. But those people

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Speaker 2: don't exist anymore. I don't think like there might be

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Speaker 2: it might be those, you know, the middle class suburban

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Speaker 2: voters that swing an election. Maybe that resonates with them, maybe,

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Speaker 2: but definitely not enough to like derail the Trump train

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Speaker 2: that is out of control has literally no one is

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Speaker 2: controlling again but Donald Trump.

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Speaker 4: And it's yeah, Jason, we might let you come back. Really,

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Speaker 4: I mean, I don't know, no, Okay, fine.

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Speaker 1: Bob Casey is the senior Senator from Pennsylvania. Welcome to

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Speaker 1: Fast Politics, Senator Casey Polly.

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Speaker 3: Great to be with you. Thank you.

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Speaker 1: It's such a weird political moment. I feel like I

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Speaker 1: don't even know where to begin. You're running for reelection.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk a little bit about that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we're in a race that we began in April,

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Speaker 3: but we're awaiting an opponent.

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Speaker 1: Your dad was governor and your mom just passed. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you come from a family that is deep Pennsylvania. Talk

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Speaker 1: about that, and I'm sorry about your mom.

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Speaker 3: Oh thanks. No, just first and foremost parents. They had

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Speaker 3: eight children. I'm number four in that list, and we

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Speaker 3: were really blessed by their constant love and support. And

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Speaker 3: I don't know how they did it, because my father

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Speaker 3: was a public official and a politician running for office,

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Speaker 3: stay wide office numerous times over the course of the

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Speaker 3: mid sixties, really into the mid eighties and beyond, and

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Speaker 3: my mother somehow was able to hold our family together

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Speaker 3: and do all the important jobs that you hope a

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Speaker 3: parent would be able to do, to raise a family,

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Speaker 3: to participate in the work that her husband's doing. Ultimately,

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Speaker 3: she had to become more of a public face when

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Speaker 3: he was elected, but we were blessed by her love

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Speaker 3: and she died at ninety one. I hope I'm half

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Speaker 3: the parent and half the spouse that she was.

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Speaker 1: True. I'm glad I don't have to raise eight children

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Speaker 1: while my husband is a campaigning that sounds really bad.

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Speaker 1: I have to say there's too many. I mean I

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Speaker 1: say this as the mother of three. Eight is too many.

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Speaker 1: So let's talk about labor. You had to tweet the

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Speaker 1: labor fees should be deductible. Let's talk about I think,

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Speaker 1: like one of the quiet underreported stories of the Biden administration,

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Speaker 1: and this is true in Pennsylvania too, democratic politics is

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Speaker 1: trying to get unions back into a place where they

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Speaker 1: really have negotiating power. Let's talk about that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: First, I think if you look at where we are

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Speaker 3: today in our political culture, a good bit of the

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Speaker 3: anger and frustration that people have has its origins not

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Speaker 3: just in the political divisions generally, but we have forty

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Speaker 3: years of the tax code being rigged for big corporations

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Speaker 3: and very wealthy Americans. Plus over that same time period,

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Speaker 3: a precipitous decline in the number of Americans who are

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Speaker 3: part of the labor union, and because of that, the

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Speaker 3: economic power of workers and families has declined significantly. So

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Speaker 3: you're going to have any at the end of that

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Speaker 3: forty or so years, you go back even further, I think,

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Speaker 3: but you're going to have a lot of economic trauma

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Speaker 3: that people are experiencing, and that's created a lot of divisions.

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Speaker 3: So one of the ways not just to lift up

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Speaker 3: workers in their families, but to breach some of the

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Speaker 3: divides in society is to get more people unionized. When

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Speaker 3: you're part of a union where you can bargain collectively

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Speaker 3: for wages and benefits, you're more likely to have a

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Speaker 3: good wage, good healthcare, and a pension of some kind.

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Speaker 3: So the pro Act is kind of the I think

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Speaker 3: the test for any public official, are you in favor

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Speaker 3: of passing the Protecting the Right to Organize Act or not?

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Speaker 3: I and so many of our Democratic colleagues are been

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Speaker 3: co sponsors for years, and Republicans are unilaterally unanimously opposed

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Speaker 3: to that. One of the parts of our tax code

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Speaker 3: that a lot of people don't realize is if a

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Speaker 3: union or if a corporation spends money to bust a union,

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Speaker 3: guess what, they receive a tax benefit from that. And

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Speaker 3: so one of the things I'm trying to do with

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Speaker 3: legislation is to end that tax benefit to corporations. We'll

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Speaker 3: get a tax break for busting unions.

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Speaker 1: Right exactly, I want to talk to you about China.

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Speaker 1: I don't even know where to begin with this. Conservatives

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Speaker 1: are at you about China. They're mad at Biden about China.

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Speaker 1: They're also mad that the Biden administration is working to

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Speaker 1: build chips A semiconductor factories in the United States so

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Speaker 1: that they're not as relying on China. Can China be

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Speaker 1: the boogeyman for all things?

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Speaker 3: Look, there's no question when you look at recent history,

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Speaker 3: especially under a new leader President she for relevably new.

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Speaker 3: They've taken China's taken as a nation, taken a turn

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Speaker 3: in a different direction. He's an autocrat, and he's not

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Speaker 3: good to his own people, but he's also leading an

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Speaker 3: effort to kind of crush any kind of economic competition,

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Speaker 3: including ours. So I always say, and I think it's true.

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Speaker 3: I think the evidence is overwhelming. When China cheats on

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Speaker 3: the world stage, Pennsylvania workers lose jobs. They've been cheating

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Speaker 3: as the Communist government for years, but they also have

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Speaker 3: been stealing our technology, and often the rise of China

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Speaker 3: has been fueled by decisions and actions taken by Corporate America.

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Speaker 3: So my effort and actually work with John Corner Texas

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Speaker 3: is no, he's no liberal.

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Speaker 1: Democrat, but he's certainly not.

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Speaker 3: He gives you a sense of the scope of the

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Speaker 3: problem that when Corporate America is out making investments in China,

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Speaker 3: including investments that involve our security military technology, there's almost

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Speaker 3: no constraints on them, some limited constraints by export controls.

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Speaker 3: So we introduced a bill to have that have a

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Speaker 3: review of that outbound investment. We finally got a version

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Speaker 3: of that past this summer and it passed ninety one

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Speaker 3: to six, despite the unilateral opposition of the US Chamber

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Speaker 3: of Commerce in Corporate America. So that what we're trying

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Speaker 3: to do is to say, look, US corporation, if you're

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Speaker 3: going to send our military technology, the benefits of our

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Speaker 3: innovation to China and benefit President she and his regime.

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Speaker 3: The federal government needs to be notified about that so

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Speaker 3: we can make an assessment whether or not our national

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Speaker 3: security is underminable. That's why I got ninety one votes,

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Speaker 3: even though Corporate America held it up for more than

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Speaker 3: a year and a half.

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Speaker 1: Republicans seem like they have some real problems as a

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Speaker 1: party in their leadership right. Their leader is basically Donald Trump.

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Speaker 1: Mitch McConnell is really the brains behind the organization, though

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Speaker 1: they're furious with Mitch McConnell and he's been plagued with

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Speaker 1: health problems. Is this an opportunity for Democrats?

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Speaker 2: Certainly.

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Speaker 3: I think I'd much rather be our party in this

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Speaker 3: difficult divide we have in the country than be on

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Speaker 3: their side, because Molly, I think you hit the nail

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Speaker 3: on the head. I think it's not simply that you

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Speaker 3: have a group of extremists in the corner and the

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Speaker 3: rest of the party leadership is somehow rational and not extreme.

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Speaker 3: I think it's become at the national level, a member

437
00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:39,399
Speaker 3: of Congress level and leadership level and extreme party. I

438
00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:41,800
Speaker 3: think it was extreme even before he shut up, So

439
00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:45,960
Speaker 3: it's not just Maga Republicans, it's leaders in Congress that

440
00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:49,960
Speaker 3: accommodate that mega part of their party. So in essence,

441
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:53,000
Speaker 3: it's as you said, it's pretty much the Trump Party,

442
00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:55,440
Speaker 3: and that makes it very difficult for them to work

443
00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:56,840
Speaker 3: with this. Now, every once in a while we can

444
00:21:56,840 --> 00:21:59,000
Speaker 3: break through that I did with John Corner and China

445
00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:02,200
Speaker 3: it passed a bill with build Cassidy on to protect

446
00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:05,760
Speaker 3: workers who are pregnant in the workforce. But it is

447
00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:09,639
Speaker 3: exceedingly difficult to get through that extremism that we're seeing

448
00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:11,880
Speaker 3: all across their party at the political level.

449
00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:15,879
Speaker 1: This Chips Act explain to us what it does to

450
00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:18,960
Speaker 1: protect workers in Pennsylvania and how that works.

451
00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:21,280
Speaker 3: In particular, what we're trying to do there is to

452
00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:24,520
Speaker 3: say if the United States has lost its edge as

453
00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:28,400
Speaker 3: it has in a very substantial way on producing semiconductors,

454
00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:33,120
Speaker 3: which everything we use, our smartphones, our refrigerators, every appliance, automobiles,

455
00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:36,000
Speaker 3: everything we use needs those chips we used to produce

456
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:38,680
Speaker 3: in nineteen ninety. We're producing more than a third of

457
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:41,880
Speaker 3: the semiconductors in the world today will only produced twelve

458
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:44,760
Speaker 3: produce about twelve percent. So to regain our edge, we

459
00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:48,280
Speaker 3: have to invest in research, and that means the federal

460
00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:52,280
Speaker 3: government investing in private sector companies that can produce these chips,

461
00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:55,000
Speaker 3: and we run ahead of China or any other country

462
00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:57,720
Speaker 3: that would be competing with us. So it's a critically

463
00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:00,760
Speaker 3: important piece of legislation to reach gain our edge and

464
00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:04,119
Speaker 3: something as fundamental as a semiconductor, just like we have

465
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:06,000
Speaker 3: to do in a whole series of other parts of

466
00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:10,239
Speaker 3: our manufacturing economy. And a lot of corporate CEOs are

467
00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:14,360
Speaker 3: finally recognizing that what President Biden did and Democrats did

468
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:16,840
Speaker 3: on a whole host difference, not just on the Chips bill,

469
00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:20,040
Speaker 3: is leading to a manufacturing renaissance in the country. But

470
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:23,000
Speaker 3: you even have some Republicans who have supported some of

471
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:26,119
Speaker 3: these bills like chips starting to run away from it

472
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:29,040
Speaker 3: because they're getting getting eat from the right. But I'm

473
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:31,800
Speaker 3: hoping that because we have them in place right now,

474
00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:35,399
Speaker 3: whether it's chips or the Inflation Reduction Act to invest

475
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:38,200
Speaker 3: in a clean energy economy, we're going to be able

476
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:41,399
Speaker 3: to make the stride to give Americans more control of

477
00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:45,240
Speaker 3: our over economic future and more control over our climate

478
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:46,240
Speaker 3: future as well.

479
00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:49,440
Speaker 1: It does seem to me that clean energy is getting

480
00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:52,879
Speaker 1: cheaper and cheaper and cheaper, and Republicans are pushing pretty

481
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:58,399
Speaker 1: hard to try to undermine that by incentivizing drilling and coal.

482
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,000
Speaker 1: You see, in state like Texas is a red state.

483
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 1: Their grid barely survived and it was able to survive

484
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:10,239
Speaker 1: this summer largely by green energy. What can Democrats do

485
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:14,399
Speaker 1: to help this green revolution? It's happening anyway, It seems

486
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:15,359
Speaker 1: like I think.

487
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:19,040
Speaker 3: First and foremost one of the leading priorities has to

488
00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:22,600
Speaker 3: be to protect the Inflation Reduction Act. The Republicans, as

489
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:25,199
Speaker 3: you know, want to wipe it out completely. So they

490
00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:27,800
Speaker 3: want to wipe out all of the tax credits for

491
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:32,440
Speaker 3: that clean energy economy helping us combat climate change, reducing

492
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:35,959
Speaker 3: carbon emissions, you know, forty by thirty forty percent reduction

493
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:38,560
Speaker 3: by twenty thirty. They want to wipe out by getting

494
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:40,720
Speaker 3: rid of the Glacier Reduction Act, get rid of all

495
00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:43,600
Speaker 3: the power that was granted to medicare, to negotiate the

496
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:46,280
Speaker 3: cost of prescription drugs, and to lower the cost of

497
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:48,680
Speaker 3: bents on for seniors, so many other benefits from the bill.

498
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 3: So we have to stop them from doing that. But

499
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:53,520
Speaker 3: I think we also have to make sure that voters

500
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 3: know before election day in twenty twenty four. What this

501
00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:59,680
Speaker 3: means for their communities isn't simply that we're trying to

502
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:02,760
Speaker 3: create and it's already happening at clean energy economy, but

503
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:05,280
Speaker 3: it's also creating lots of jobs. I mean, I can

504
00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:07,720
Speaker 3: stand up and say as a candidate for reelection that

505
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,240
Speaker 3: just the Inflation Reduction Act and the Infrastructure Bill, just

506
00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:13,720
Speaker 3: those two bills alone are going to lead to the

507
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:17,360
Speaker 3: creation of fifty thousand jobs in Pennsylvania each and every

508
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 3: year for the next decade. It's a job benefit, an

509
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:25,200
Speaker 3: economic boost for communities as we're investing in clean energy

510
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,480
Speaker 3: economy in the future. So I think articulating as forcefully

511
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:31,240
Speaker 3: as we can what these benefits mean to communities, but

512
00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:35,119
Speaker 3: also making sure we're stopping the corporate extremists from wiping

513
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:37,879
Speaker 3: out the legislation. And look, for me, it's pretty simple.

514
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:40,639
Speaker 3: The same crowd that tried to stop my bill to

515
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,520
Speaker 3: prevent our technology from going to China, the same crowd

516
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:46,040
Speaker 3: that's opposing me in the selection, is the same corporate

517
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:48,359
Speaker 3: crowd trying to wipe out the Inflationial Reduction Act. And

518
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:51,440
Speaker 3: so if you want to stop them, I'd ask your

519
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,680
Speaker 3: listeners to go to Bobcasey dot com and help us.

520
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 1: Can you talk to me about this Special Committee on Age.

521
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 3: Yes, it's been a committee that's been around for decades,

522
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:06,040
Speaker 3: but because it's not an authorizing committee, doesn't often get

523
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,240
Speaker 3: a lot of attention. But it gives us a chance,

524
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 3: and I'm been the chair and then before that, the

525
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:13,680
Speaker 3: leading Democrat for years to put a spotlight on big

526
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 3: issues that relate to seniors. And I've also used it

527
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:20,480
Speaker 3: as a platform to focus on Americans who have a

528
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:24,280
Speaker 3: disability as well. Because those Americans, sixty one million of them,

529
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:26,639
Speaker 3: don't get a lot of attention. It's allowed us to

530
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:30,200
Speaker 3: put a spotlight on issues that affect seniors and their families.

531
00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:33,440
Speaker 3: For example, in the grip of the opioid and substance

532
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 3: use disorder crisis, which is still with us obviously, but

533
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,919
Speaker 3: was most prominent in the news just a couple of

534
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:41,560
Speaker 3: years ago, we were able to focus on grand families.

535
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:45,200
Speaker 3: These heroic grandparents are raising grandchildren. In fact, I even

536
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 3: met a woman from my faith Lewis her name was

537
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 3: it from my home county, who was a great grandmother

538
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 3: raising a young child. So it's a committee that allows

539
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:56,520
Speaker 3: us to put a spotlight on those issues on arsenal issues,

540
00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,440
Speaker 3: on issues that relate to how seniors get to become

541
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:02,680
Speaker 3: the targets for scam artists and purveyors or fraud to

542
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 3: rip them west. So it's a great committee and we're

543
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 3: lucky to have the chance to be able to put

544
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 3: us potlight on those issues relate to seniors.

545
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:14,920
Speaker 1: Senator Tuberville has held up all of these appointments in

546
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:18,119
Speaker 1: the military and made it so that there are now

547
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:24,639
Speaker 1: various members of military leadership missing. Tell me what you think, Well.

548
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:26,639
Speaker 3: It's at outrage. You don't have to be a military

549
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 3: leader of the Marine Corps, of the Army or any

550
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:31,719
Speaker 3: other branch of our military to know that it is

551
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 3: not only an outrage, but it's an abuse of a

552
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:38,919
Speaker 3: Senate rule or tradition. And I think it focuses our

553
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 3: attention again on the need for reform in the Senate,

554
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:44,080
Speaker 3: not only that we need to get rid of the

555
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 3: so called filibuster role, but I call it the sixty

556
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 3: vote rule because that's the effectively you need sixty votes

557
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:52,600
Speaker 3: to pass virtually anything, and that rule has been abused

558
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:57,040
Speaker 3: by Republicans for years, stopping us from passing voting rights

559
00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:00,879
Speaker 3: legislation or legislation reduced gun violence. So I think we

560
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:04,120
Speaker 3: should also reform the rule about holds that one senator

561
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:07,040
Speaker 3: can put a hold on one nomination or, in the

562
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:11,159
Speaker 3: case of Senator Tuberville, hundreds and hundreds of nominations and

563
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 3: promotions and actions that we could take to lift up

564
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 3: our men and women who serve in the military. So

565
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 3: it should be a clarion call. Not just to force

566
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 3: Senator Tourville to cancel a hold into stuff is extreme

567
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 3: behavior in the Senate, but to reform these damn rules

568
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:28,240
Speaker 3: that are getting in the way of progress and preventing

569
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:30,560
Speaker 3: us from making progress to the American people.

570
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Senator. I hope you'll come back.

571
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 3: Molly, thank you. I honored to be on with you today.

572
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 1: Lydia Poegreen is a New York Times columnist and host

573
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:46,600
Speaker 1: of the podcast Matter of Opinion. Welcome to Fast Politics,

574
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 1: Lydia Poegreen.

575
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:49,320
Speaker 2: Oh, it's so great to be back.

576
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:53,000
Speaker 1: Mollie. Well, it's great to have you. I'm so excited.

577
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 1: You are an opinion columnist at the New York Times.

578
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 1: You have written a lot of really gut wrenching reporting

579
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 1: from places around the world that need to be seen.

580
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 1: Talk to me about how you've decided to go to

581
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 1: these places and what the experience has been like and

582
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:16,239
Speaker 1: where has affected you the most. This is not so

583
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 1: usual for an opinion columnist to use this platform in

584
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 1: this way.

585
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:23,479
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, thank you Mollie for being such an

586
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:25,720
Speaker 5: enthusiastic reader of my work. I know a lot of

587
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:28,440
Speaker 5: people would rather not think about some of the terrible

588
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:29,960
Speaker 5: things that are happening in the world.

589
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 3: I mean.

590
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 5: One of the wonderful things about opinion columnists at the

591
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 5: New York Times, and it's really truly like the greatest

592
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 5: job in all of journalism, I think selfishly, is that,

593
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:40,720
Speaker 5: you know, there's just a ton of support for kind

594
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 5: of going out into the world and figuring out what's happening.

595
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:44,960
Speaker 5: Of course, there are a lot of great columnists who

596
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 5: write sort of based on their interests and their you know,

597
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 5: kind of the ideas that they have in their heads.

598
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 5: What I find is like I have to sort of

599
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 5: go out into the world pretty frequently in order to

600
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 5: figure out what I think about things. It's very hard

601
00:29:57,360 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 5: for me, maybe because I'm I mean, look, I'm opinionated

602
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:02,040
Speaker 5: about a lot of things like diet coke versus PEPSI

603
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 5: you know what's the best Indigo Girls song? Like, I

604
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:06,040
Speaker 5: have very strong opinions about these matters.

605
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 1: Diet coke and also Galileo.

606
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:15,600
Speaker 5: Yeah right, going, wow, Okay, that's for separate podcast. We'll

607
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 5: be talking about your Indigo Girls choice. I mean truly

608
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 5: that there's no wrong answers because they're the best. Okay, good,

609
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 5: but yes, you're correct on dietzodas diet coke is really

610
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 5: the only one word I prefer. The tiny can. I

611
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 5: don't know about you, but I just love those little

612
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 5: eaty bitty cans that they have now as you drink one,

613
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 5: and it's small enough that it never gets warm or

614
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 5: ghost flat.

615
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 1: Right, The tiny cans are very fancy.

616
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're very fancy.

617
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 5: So I think, like, because I'm a person who doesn't

618
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:43,840
Speaker 5: necessarily have a lot of fixed opinions about things, it's

619
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 5: just really important for me to kind of go out

620
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 5: into the world and see what's happening. And I particularly

621
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 5: like to go to places that are that are difficult,

622
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 5: you know, and that that maybe don't get visited quite

623
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 5: as often, you know. So to my last big reporting trip,

624
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:59,959
Speaker 5: I went to Eastern Chad. Chad is a big country

625
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:03,360
Speaker 5: in central Africa and it borders Sudan. In particular, it

626
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 5: borders the Darfur region of Sudan. And as your listeners,

627
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 5: I'm sure know, there's been a huge conflict that's been

628
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:11,520
Speaker 5: going on in Sudan for months now.

629
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 2: There was a coup.

630
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 5: There are two military leaders who are kind of battling

631
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:18,920
Speaker 5: it out. It's been very hard to report from within Sudan.

632
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 5: But what we were seeing was that there were a

633
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 5: lot of people who were fleeing over the border from

634
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:25,960
Speaker 5: the Darfur region of Sudan to eastern Chad. And so

635
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 5: I thought, I really need to go and see for

636
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:30,480
Speaker 5: myself what's happening there. And this is like a really

637
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:32,520
Speaker 5: remote and difficult place to reach.

638
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, how did you get there?

639
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was just going to say it.

640
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 1: Just always fascinated with how people got there.

641
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 2: I love rude talk.

642
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:40,920
Speaker 1: Yeah.

643
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:43,240
Speaker 5: The fastest way to get to Chad, it turns out,

644
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:45,440
Speaker 5: from New York City is actually to fly to Paris,

645
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 5: and then from Paris to Enjemino, which is the capital

646
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:50,920
Speaker 5: of Chad, and then from there you have to try

647
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:53,280
Speaker 5: and figure out how to get on one of these

648
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 5: kind of un charter flights that take aid workers out

649
00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 5: to the border, which is a very kind of remote

650
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:01,960
Speaker 5: region of Chad. And you know, this is a sort

651
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 5: of dry, dusty part of the world called the Sahel.

652
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 5: That was the beginning of the rainy season when I

653
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 5: was going. And when those rains come in, it's you know,

654
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 5: I mean, obviously we've been dealing with our.

655
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 2: Own issues with rain in the United States.

656
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:15,440
Speaker 5: And flooding and things like that, but it is an

657
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:18,719
Speaker 5: incredibly difficult journey to sort of move things around in

658
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 5: that part of the world. And so you have hundreds

659
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 5: of thousands of people who are crossing the border of

660
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:26,120
Speaker 5: Trum Sudan with literally the clothes on their back, and

661
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 5: they're going to settle and set up kind of like

662
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 5: makeshift shelters for themselves, fleeing horrific violence, you know, rape

663
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:35,360
Speaker 5: and want and killing and burning down houses and things

664
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:37,880
Speaker 5: like that. And they're coming with almost nothing, and they're

665
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:41,720
Speaker 5: setting up these tents made out of sticks and leaves

666
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:44,719
Speaker 5: and whatever bits of plastic that they can find, and

667
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:47,760
Speaker 5: there is a desperate race on to try and get

668
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 5: humanitarian supplies to these people and getting to eastern Chad.

669
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:54,960
Speaker 5: Even if you have access to an airplane, that's fine,

670
00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 5: But when you talk about bringing huge amounts of food,

671
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 5: of tents of cooking materials and things like that. You

672
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:05,000
Speaker 5: have to take these these roads that are really just

673
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:08,400
Speaker 5: kind of dusty tracks through dry scrub, and then the

674
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:12,600
Speaker 5: rains come and these huge, huge, huge rivers form that

675
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:15,280
Speaker 5: are usually dry riverbeds, and so I'd hired a kind

676
00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 5: of a four wheel drive jep type of thing, and

677
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 5: then there was a security car that was following me,

678
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 5: which was also a pickup truck, and you know, we

679
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 5: were able to get through these flooded riverbeds, but you

680
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 5: would see these trucks that were laden with stuff that

681
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 5: was like literally to help people survive and not starve

682
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:33,400
Speaker 5: to death that would just get bogged down in these

683
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 5: river beds. And I just thought, my god, these poor people,

684
00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:38,800
Speaker 5: like how are they going to survive this rainy season.

685
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 5: They've left their crops behind, they've left their lives behind,

686
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 5: They're traumatized, and so yeah, I mean, of course, I'm

687
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:47,480
Speaker 5: going I'm going to go to these places. I'm going

688
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 5: to talk to these people, and I'm going to try

689
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 5: and tell their stories.

690
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:53,600
Speaker 1: You highlight these people and their harold. What can we

691
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 1: do to help them?

692
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:56,960
Speaker 2: That's a very big question. I think a very good one.

693
00:33:57,040 --> 00:33:59,000
Speaker 5: I mean, I think the first thing that these people

694
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 5: need is act us to just the basic materials to

695
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 5: help them survive, and the humanitarian appeals to provide the

696
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:09,960
Speaker 5: basics of survival to these folks are like woefully and underfunded,

697
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 5: and people there's a lot of fatigue, right, people are like, oh,

698
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 5: you know, we're supporting people in Ukraine, or you know,

699
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:17,440
Speaker 5: we're worried about the folks in Maui who've been burnt

700
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:20,040
Speaker 5: out of their homes, and so there's so much terrible

701
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:23,080
Speaker 5: stuff going on in the world, but those humanitarian.

702
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:25,279
Speaker 2: Appeals are you know, woefully, woefully underfunded.

703
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:28,799
Speaker 5: The big thing that the people of Sudan need is peace, right,

704
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:31,240
Speaker 5: I mean, they need an end to this terrible conflict.

705
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:34,879
Speaker 5: So I think putting pressure on the combatants to lace

706
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:35,800
Speaker 5: on their arms.

707
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:38,600
Speaker 1: So who are the combatants? Just I think, I know,

708
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:42,319
Speaker 1: but again, it would be really helpful for the people

709
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:44,759
Speaker 1: who are listening here just to hear like who are

710
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:47,279
Speaker 1: the combatants and why is this war going on?

711
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:50,359
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a fascinating story, and you know, Sudan has

712
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:53,440
Speaker 5: been in some turmoil for some time. Basically, you have

713
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:56,960
Speaker 5: the head of the official army, the Sudanese armed forces

714
00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:00,040
Speaker 5: and a General Borhan who's in charge of that. And

715
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 5: there was another armed group that was at the center

716
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:05,719
Speaker 5: of the big genocide that had happened in Dark four

717
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:08,800
Speaker 5: and had been happening for about twenty years that was

718
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 5: then absorbed into the military, and that was sort of

719
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:16,160
Speaker 5: a rival paramilitary group that is led by a general

720
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 5: who goes by the nom de guerre Hemiti, and the

721
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:23,279
Speaker 5: two of them were essentially, you know, kind of uneasy rivals,

722
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:27,360
Speaker 5: and they together decided that they were going to topple

723
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,200
Speaker 5: the civilian government and then a fight broke out between

724
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:33,280
Speaker 5: the two of them. So you have these like armed

725
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:37,880
Speaker 5: guys who are essentially like engaging in urban warfare in

726
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:40,880
Speaker 5: the streets of Khartum, the capital of Sudan. Huge amounts

727
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:43,960
Speaker 5: of people have been killed, people are desperate.

728
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 2: To get out.

729
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:47,200
Speaker 5: At the same time, this is an incredibly complicated global

730
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 5: conflict because you have Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates,

731
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 5: the Russians, the Chinese you know there, and then of

732
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:56,319
Speaker 5: course the United States and others, and you know, they're

733
00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:59,200
Speaker 5: all these different players that are trying to kind of

734
00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:01,400
Speaker 5: influence it. So it is i think one of the

735
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:04,960
Speaker 5: messiest and most complicated situations on a very messy and

736
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:08,920
Speaker 5: complicated global chessboard right now, and for ordinary people, the

737
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:12,040
Speaker 5: best thing you can do is to support the humanitarian effort,

738
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 5: because obviously helping the people who are struggling through this

739
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 5: is the you know, sort of most immediate need. But gosh,

740
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:20,040
Speaker 5: you know, I would love to see the United States

741
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:23,680
Speaker 5: step up and take a more muscular role in trying

742
00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:26,480
Speaker 5: to find a diplomatic settlement to this conflict. I think

743
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:28,719
Speaker 5: a lot of people just look at the difficulties of

744
00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:30,120
Speaker 5: the world and just sort of throw up their hands

745
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 5: and say, there's nothing we can do about it. But

746
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:34,640
Speaker 5: you know, my work is really driven by a strong

747
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:36,880
Speaker 5: sense that, you know, we're we're all in this together,

748
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:38,480
Speaker 5: and that we have to take care of one another.

749
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:40,720
Speaker 5: And you know, we have we have all these conversations

750
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,560
Speaker 5: about the quote unquote migrant crisis, why are there so

751
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 5: many people trying to get to Europe or trying to

752
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:47,720
Speaker 5: get to the United States, And you know, look around

753
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:51,239
Speaker 5: the world and see what's happening and having some sort

754
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:54,360
Speaker 5: of kind of humanitarian commitment I think is absolutely essential

755
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:57,239
Speaker 5: to creating a world in which people can live in

756
00:36:57,280 --> 00:36:58,759
Speaker 5: the places that they want to be.

757
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 1: And I mean, I also think with the crisis again,

758
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:04,680
Speaker 1: I don't even want to call it a crisis, because

759
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 1: it's not a crisis. These are people who are suffering,

760
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:12,239
Speaker 1: whose countries have been made uninhabitable by the oil and

761
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 1: gas we in America have used, and are now scrambling

762
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:18,520
Speaker 1: to find a place they can grow their crops. People

763
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:21,279
Speaker 1: that we need for our economy. I mean, this is

764
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:24,680
Speaker 1: like one of these situations where like, we desperately need

765
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:28,040
Speaker 1: people for our economy, they desperately want to come here,

766
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:30,960
Speaker 1: and yet Republicans ideologically don't like them.

767
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:34,600
Speaker 5: So yeah, to me, this is one of the defining

768
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:37,359
Speaker 5: moral issues of our time. I mean, I think you're

769
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:41,439
Speaker 5: very right to point to the environmental degradation that rich

770
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 5: countries have kind of rieked on the rest of the world.

771
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:47,280
Speaker 5: But I think there's even another thing that never really

772
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:50,319
Speaker 5: gets talked about, which is we talk about migrants as

773
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:53,440
Speaker 5: being sort of you know, we I mean, I certainly don't,

774
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 5: but there's this language about, you know, we're being invaded

775
00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:59,480
Speaker 5: and these people are are coming to like take over

776
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:02,160
Speaker 5: our territory, you know. But like, let's back up and

777
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:05,400
Speaker 5: think about you know what the history of the world is,

778
00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:08,960
Speaker 5: and the history of the world is one of Europeans

779
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 5: invading the world and settling the territory and exterminating the

780
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:18,200
Speaker 5: indigenous people who lived there. And so you know, if

781
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:21,760
Speaker 5: you are an Indian person who goes to the United Kingdom,

782
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:24,920
Speaker 5: you're doing a version of what the kind of second

783
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:28,120
Speaker 5: born sons of English nobles who weren't going to inherit

784
00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:31,920
Speaker 5: any property did in the eighteenth and nineteenth century. You know,

785
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:34,239
Speaker 5: you're going to find your fortune at the place where

786
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:36,560
Speaker 5: there's a fortune to be made. And so I think

787
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:40,200
Speaker 5: there is this kind of global reparations thing that needs

788
00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:42,719
Speaker 5: to happen with thinking about people moving around the world,

789
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:44,799
Speaker 5: because people have always moved around the world. This is

790
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 5: not a new phenomenon. And it used to be that,

791
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:50,080
Speaker 5: you know, it was white Europeans who moved around the

792
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:52,400
Speaker 5: world in order to find a place to make a

793
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:54,440
Speaker 5: better life for themselves. And now that the shoes on

794
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:56,440
Speaker 5: the other foot were like whoa, WHOA hold up a minute,

795
00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:58,040
Speaker 5: you know, can't have that well.

796
00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:00,560
Speaker 1: And I also think, I mean it is this, you know,

797
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:04,360
Speaker 1: if we're going to talk about moral imperative here, we

798
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:07,680
Speaker 1: have people coming in this country who you know, are

799
00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:11,320
Speaker 1: trying to escape climate change that we cost and also

800
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 1: violence and drug trade, drugs that we buy in our country,

801
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:19,680
Speaker 1: all made possible, right, they are trying to flee the

802
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:23,120
Speaker 1: effects of living so close to America basically, I mean,

803
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:25,759
Speaker 1: there are other issues a place, for sure, but it

804
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:28,719
Speaker 1: is pretty interesting that this is where we are. And

805
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:31,759
Speaker 1: so what's happening right now is that we have this

806
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:35,600
Speaker 1: very tight labor market. So we're seeing Republican governors in

807
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:39,239
Speaker 1: Red states past legislation making it easier for them to

808
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:44,800
Speaker 1: employ children children. We con they will let these children

809
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 1: who cross the border by themselves work in the factory

810
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:50,879
Speaker 1: is because they don't have to pay them as much.

811
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:53,399
Speaker 1: I mean, talk about moral crisis.

812
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:55,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, and I know, I know you've had my colleague

813
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:57,839
Speaker 5: on the newsroom side, Hannah Dryer on and she's done

814
00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:02,160
Speaker 5: just some incredible reporting. And you know, the idea of children,

815
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:08,040
Speaker 5: regardless of their citizenship's testus, doing dangerous work in slaughter

816
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:10,840
Speaker 5: houses in factory I mean, this is like stuff from

817
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:14,200
Speaker 5: Upton Sinclair, you know, like this is it's yeah, I

818
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:17,040
Speaker 5: mean these are Dickenzie and exactly, I think that there

819
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:20,359
Speaker 5: is this kind of bizarre kind of hypocritical. We must

820
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:23,560
Speaker 5: protect children vibe going on in quote unquote red states what,

821
00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:25,960
Speaker 5: in fact, what people really want is just to treat

822
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:29,279
Speaker 5: children like property and exploit them for their own ends

823
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:31,920
Speaker 5: and their own uses, and that is incredibly tragic.

824
00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:36,719
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, let's talk about your podcast and what it

825
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:39,320
Speaker 1: looks like and what it is and what you're doing

826
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:39,640
Speaker 1: with it.

827
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:43,880
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, thanks, thanks for asking, Mollie. Now, I also

828
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:46,440
Speaker 5: am a podcaster like you. I mean, I have a

829
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:49,040
Speaker 5: little bit less experience, but you know, but you.

830
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:52,000
Speaker 1: Also ran I think an important data point here is

831
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:54,920
Speaker 1: that you also ran a podcasting companies. You have experienced

832
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:57,439
Speaker 1: from a lot of different angles a podcast I do.

833
00:40:57,520 --> 00:40:59,839
Speaker 5: It's true, and I really enjoyed that experience.

834
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:02,200
Speaker 1: Besides, after you were the editor in chief of the

835
00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:04,919
Speaker 1: Huffna Post, you have not just been hanging out.

836
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:08,920
Speaker 5: I have sort of a strange and variegated resume. I've

837
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:10,759
Speaker 5: done a lot of different things. It turns out my

838
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:12,799
Speaker 5: first love has always been reporting and writing, so it's

839
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:14,960
Speaker 5: great to be back doing it. So I have a podcast.

840
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:18,040
Speaker 5: It's called a Matter of Opinion. We refer to it

841
00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:21,120
Speaker 5: as MOO for short. I'm hoping that'll catch on and

842
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:25,400
Speaker 5: it's a conversational podcast that I do with my colleagues,

843
00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:28,440
Speaker 5: Michelle Coddle, who's a brilliant and member of the editorial

844
00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:31,480
Speaker 5: board at the New York Times. My fellow columnist Ross Douthitt,

845
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:33,239
Speaker 5: who I think is one of the smartest and most

846
00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:36,279
Speaker 5: engaging voices on the right. I often don't agree with him,

847
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:40,319
Speaker 5: but I always appreciate his intelligence and thoughtfulness and care.

848
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:43,880
Speaker 1: Husband Matt Greenfield, is not a fan, but we appreciate

849
00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:47,680
Speaker 1: it hearing many different, many different perspectives. Yes.

850
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:51,200
Speaker 5: And then rounding out the quartet is Carlos Lozada, who

851
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:53,760
Speaker 5: is a pretty new addition to The New York Times.

852
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:56,600
Speaker 5: He joined about a year ago. He was a long

853
00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:59,640
Speaker 5: time book critic at The Washington Post and also wrote

854
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:01,800
Speaker 5: long en you know, writes long essays about books.

855
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:03,760
Speaker 1: Yes, really, he's.

856
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:06,280
Speaker 5: Truly a genius, really smart, reads and reads and reads

857
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:09,280
Speaker 5: and writes these like, you know, fascinating and brilliant essays

858
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:12,280
Speaker 5: about big ideas and topics that are sort of adjacent

859
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:14,440
Speaker 5: to the news but kind of reach back much further.

860
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:17,200
Speaker 5: I highly highly recommend his work, and so you know,

861
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:19,239
Speaker 5: and it's not one of these like we're going to

862
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:22,320
Speaker 5: argue and slug it out from different ideological perspectives. I

863
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:26,839
Speaker 5: think all of us have pretty heterodox views, and even Ross,

864
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:29,960
Speaker 5: who's sort of, you know, an out conservative, has a

865
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:33,319
Speaker 5: lot of interesting and heterodox perspectives, and so it's really great.

866
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:34,240
Speaker 2: It's a fun listen.

867
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:36,439
Speaker 5: It's a fun group of people, you know, just trying

868
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:38,279
Speaker 5: to come to grips with this crazy time in which

869
00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 5: we're living. And we cover a lot of different subjects,

870
00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:43,520
Speaker 5: not just politics, although of course we are coming into

871
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:46,680
Speaker 5: a presidential election year, so we are all stuck talking

872
00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:47,839
Speaker 5: about it NonStop.

873
00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:50,840
Speaker 1: I can hear the sort of sadness in your voice.

874
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:52,799
Speaker 1: It's funny because I feel like I would do a

875
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:55,440
Speaker 1: show where I like screamed at Ben Shapiro for an hour,

876
00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:57,440
Speaker 1: Like I feel like I could do it. I was

877
00:42:57,440 --> 00:42:58,960
Speaker 1: thinking about it, and I was like, you know, we're

878
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:01,040
Speaker 1: always like, well, we don't at each other. But then

879
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:03,719
Speaker 1: sometimes I'll go on these like far right news. I

880
00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:06,520
Speaker 1: went on gb News and I was like, you know,

881
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:09,400
Speaker 1: I could just sit here for forty minutes and argue

882
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:11,640
Speaker 1: with you, like I'm fine with that, and yeah, I

883
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:14,320
Speaker 1: mean I don't know that hearts and minds get changed

884
00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:17,480
Speaker 1: by that, But I don't mind watching it. I mean,

885
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 1: maybe people don't like to watch it.

886
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:20,279
Speaker 2: Well, I mean it is.

887
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:22,839
Speaker 5: Interesting, right, because I do think that, like, I have

888
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:27,640
Speaker 5: a visceral dislike of kind of like conversation as blood sport,

889
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:30,440
Speaker 5: where it's like just for the entertainment value of like

890
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:32,840
Speaker 5: seeing people demolish one another. And there have been like

891
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:35,359
Speaker 5: Hannity and Calms, and it's like, I mean, poor poor

892
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:39,920
Speaker 5: Culms was like so overmatched by Sean Hannity. These classic

893
00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:42,399
Speaker 5: kind of battles, you know, whether it's you know, Gore

894
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:44,080
Speaker 5: Vidal versus William F.

895
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:44,960
Speaker 2: Buckley or William F.

896
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:49,000
Speaker 5: Buckley and James Baldwin, the Bloody town Hall conversation with

897
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:51,319
Speaker 5: Dorman Mahler and all the things. You know, these are

898
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:54,120
Speaker 5: iconic moments in our culture, and they're iconic for a reason.

899
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:57,360
Speaker 5: So I think that there is something about this idea

900
00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:00,680
Speaker 5: of like, you know, real passionate argument. And I think

901
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:03,279
Speaker 5: that that's not necessarily what we're trying to do with

902
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:05,440
Speaker 5: the show, because we're I think, you know, we're all

903
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:07,200
Speaker 5: kind of a little bit all over the map in

904
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:09,960
Speaker 5: terms of our politics. But I do think that kind

905
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:14,520
Speaker 5: of passionate discussion about things that really matter rather than

906
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:17,000
Speaker 5: you know, what often substitutes for that is a kind

907
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:20,680
Speaker 5: of play by play of like the sport or the style,

908
00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:23,440
Speaker 5: you know, So it's either you're talking about the outfits

909
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:25,960
Speaker 5: or the tactics or And I think that as long

910
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:28,440
Speaker 5: as the conversation is happening on the level of substance,

911
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:31,520
Speaker 5: and that's important. The other thing that I do really

912
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:33,200
Speaker 5: enjoy and I think you and I were talking about

913
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:34,840
Speaker 5: this when we had lunch the other day, but is

914
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:38,240
Speaker 5: you know, really seeing someone just like wipe the floor

915
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:40,759
Speaker 5: with an opponent on a substantive matter. You know, Like,

916
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:43,240
Speaker 5: I'm no fan of Nikki Haley. I think she's actually

917
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:46,000
Speaker 5: a huge hypocrite. And my colleague Frank Bruney wrote a

918
00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:48,680
Speaker 5: great piece recently just sort of like taking her apart

919
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:49,680
Speaker 5: because everyone.

920
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:50,800
Speaker 2: Was like, oh, she did so great in the debate.

921
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:53,600
Speaker 5: But all of that being said, I mean, how fun

922
00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:57,319
Speaker 5: was it to watch her just like dismantle vivek Ramaswami.

923
00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:00,920
Speaker 5: You know, every middle aged woman that I know was

924
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:03,400
Speaker 5: like watching that and just being like, uh huh, we

925
00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:04,440
Speaker 5: know that little twerp.

926
00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:05,799
Speaker 2: You know that guy at the.

927
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:09,640
Speaker 5: Office that you know who just is so smug and

928
00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:12,400
Speaker 5: so sure of himself and just talks out his ass

929
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:14,920
Speaker 5: and she just like clean his clocket and that's always

930
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:15,359
Speaker 5: nice to.

931
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:17,640
Speaker 1: See, Lydia. Thank you for joining us.

932
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:18,840
Speaker 2: Always a pleasure.

933
00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:27,680
Speaker 6: Mollie Jesse Cannon, my junk Fast, fresh off of getting

934
00:45:27,719 --> 00:45:32,320
Speaker 6: fully embarrassed by MSNBC's Meddi Hassan Vivek has been embarrassed again.

935
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:36,719
Speaker 1: I'm so shocked the vic and rhymes with cake or fake.

936
00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:39,880
Speaker 1: He's standing in front of a sign that says truth

937
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:43,160
Speaker 1: and it falls over and hits him in the head.

938
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:48,080
Speaker 1: If that isn't on the nose, I don't know what is.

939
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:54,680
Speaker 1: And so for everyone's favorite climate denier, the truth hurts.

940
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:02,960
Speaker 1: That's it for this EPA Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday,

941
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:06,080
Speaker 1: Wednesday and Friday to hear the best minds in politics

942
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:09,160
Speaker 1: makes sense of all this chaos. If you enjoyed what

943
00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:11,799
Speaker 1: you've heard, please send it to a friend and keep

944
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:15,000
Speaker 1: the conversation going. And again, thanks for listening.