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Speaker 1: On the Bell Cast, the questions asked if movies have

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Speaker 1: women in um, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands?

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Speaker 1: Or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef invest start

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Speaker 1: changing it with the beck Del Cast. Hello, and welcome

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Speaker 1: to the Bechdel Cast. My name is Jamie Loftus. My

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Speaker 1: name is Caitlin Durante and uh, today we're covering a

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Speaker 1: movie that many call Happiest Season, but I like to

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Speaker 1: call turn the Car around now. Uh, but first we

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Speaker 1: should tell you what our podcast is. Caitlyn, what's our podcast?

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Speaker 1: I forget it? Who remembers? Um? Uh? This is the

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Speaker 1: Bechtel Cast, which uh is named after the Bechdel Test.

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Speaker 1: But the show, if you've been listening, has increasingly less

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Speaker 1: and less to do with it. But it is what

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Speaker 1: we name the show. We talked about movies through an

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Speaker 1: intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechtel test simply as a

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Speaker 1: jumping off point. A Bectel test, of course, is a

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Speaker 1: media metric created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechtel, sometimes called

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Speaker 1: the Becktel Wallace Test, in which here are the criteria. Ready, everyone, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're this is school now? Yes? Uh? Two people of

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Speaker 1: any marginalized gender have to have names, they have to

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Speaker 1: speak to each other about something other than a man.

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Speaker 1: On our metric is it has to be at least

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Speaker 1: a two line exchange of dialogue. I actually think this

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Speaker 1: movie in particular is kind of like uniquely suited to

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Speaker 1: why the Bechdel Test originally existed, because it was invented

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Speaker 1: in the context of queer representation as well, which never

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Speaker 1: comes up in the conversation about it. It just kind

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Speaker 1: of becomes like blanket uh women, Right, But I feel

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Speaker 1: like this, this movie is kind of a little closer

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Speaker 1: to what the actual like comic strip that the test

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Speaker 1: is pulled from, is absolutely trying to get at. So yes,

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Speaker 1: so good job movie, good job movie. It only with

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Speaker 1: the Betel tests been around for what thirty years, and

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Speaker 1: and this is a uniquely safed movie for it. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: so we're doing We're This was a very very very

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Speaker 1: very very popularly requested movie. I feel like the second

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Speaker 1: this movie came out on Hulu, or even maybe the

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Speaker 1: second the trailer dropped, it was just like everyone added

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Speaker 1: as of like when is it going to happen? And

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Speaker 1: so we're doing it? And also here we were just

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Speaker 1: watching it anyways, Yeah, for sure. Let's introduce our guests. Uh.

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Speaker 1: They are featured in the New York Times. They are

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Speaker 1: in Love Life on HBO Max. It's just Tom. Hi. Welcome,

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Speaker 1: welcome for being here, Thanks for having me. I'm very,

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Speaker 1: very excited to get into this one with you. This

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Speaker 1: movie has been polarizing. It has probably the most polarizing

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Speaker 1: issue is Happiest Season on Hulu when people look back

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Speaker 1: to yeah, that's this is all people will remember about, Like,

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Speaker 1: what's the one thing that happened in the year Happiest

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Speaker 1: this course around Happiest Season. Jess, what is your what

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Speaker 1: is your I guess normally we ask what is your

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Speaker 1: history with this movie? But it's been out for less

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Speaker 1: than a month, so we're just gonna do general thoughts

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Speaker 1: slash experiences with this movie so far. What are your

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Speaker 1: general experiences and thoughts around this movie? Well? I actually

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Speaker 1: feel like I want to subvert the genre here and

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Speaker 1: ask you guys a question, okay, sort of to start

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Speaker 1: me off. And I recognize the irony of asking this

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Speaker 1: question in a movie that's about people being put on

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Speaker 1: spot and made to come out when they're not ready

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Speaker 1: to do it yet, But so I I don't know

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Speaker 1: either of you guys in real life. Yeah, um, so

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Speaker 1: what's your guys to steal? Are you? Are you queer?

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Speaker 1: Are you were on the spectrum? Do you fall all

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Speaker 1: who I'm I'm by cool, I am a straight person.

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Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. That's fine. We accept we accept you too,

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Speaker 1: We're in all. I I ask because I asked because

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Speaker 1: like I really wanted to get sort of the lay

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Speaker 1: of the land, like for our particular conversation on this movie,

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Speaker 1: and like, yeah, where everybody falls on this. Um so

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Speaker 1: that's good. That's good for me to know. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. It was. Um, I was kind of

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Speaker 1: upset by this movie initially. I have to come out

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Speaker 1: as a hater. That's like, that's what I'm gonna say. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but you had one of the most i think like

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Speaker 1: iconic tweets in the discourse of this movie. Wait, I

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Speaker 1: want to I want to pull it up. Um oh wait,

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Speaker 1: there are so many results. Okay, the tweet I'm thinking

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Speaker 1: of is, um, leave it to lesbians to call a

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Speaker 1: movie happiest season And it's one hour, forty minutes of

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Speaker 1: abject emotional suffering. That's the tweeting a perfect Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think it's true. I think it's true. I was like, where, yeah,

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Speaker 1: where are we emotionally that this is the movie we've

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Speaker 1: called happiest Season, right? Like I think we need to

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Speaker 1: do a little check in with ourselves. I think we

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Speaker 1: need to do a little like see how we feel

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Speaker 1: right now, Like do a little breathe and breathe out

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Speaker 1: a litterally, drink a little water, Like how do I

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Speaker 1: actually feel in this moment? Do I feel happy? Is

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Speaker 1: that that feeling is the feeling happy? Or is it

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Speaker 1: like a terror and anxiety? It's even even just qualifying

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Speaker 1: it as happiest, like right, happiest ever? This is as

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Speaker 1: happy as it gets. If this is anyone in this

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Speaker 1: movie's best holiday they've ever had, it's really a cause

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Speaker 1: for concern because everyone is really like bleeding emotionally for

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Speaker 1: the entire movie. My takeaway from this movie was I

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Speaker 1: found it to be an accurate portrayal of a certain

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Speaker 1: type of being queer at Christmas experience. But I don't

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Speaker 1: think that just because something is literally accurate makes it

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Speaker 1: like a good movie or a fun thing to watch,

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Speaker 1: and that actually, perhaps in its accuracy, it becomes unfun,

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Speaker 1: definitely not happy as maybe like bleakest or something. I mean, really,

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Speaker 1: I feel like I watched it and it reminded me

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Speaker 1: of all of these terrible queer holiday experiences I've had,

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Speaker 1: and it just like brought up a lot of stuff

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Speaker 1: for me, and I was like, I really feel like,

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Speaker 1: like my overall feeling about this movie is sort of

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Speaker 1: a feeling of ambush and betrayal. Yes, Like I feel

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Speaker 1: like it was sold to me as like, hey, just Tom,

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Speaker 1: wouldn't you love a queer cute Christmas romantic comedy? We made?

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Speaker 1: We some lesbians made a lesbian romantic comedy for you.

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Speaker 1: And then I watched it and it was like, actually,

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Speaker 1: it's a lot of bad memory, like every bad memory,

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Speaker 1: like every queer holiday you've ever had? Right, Yeah, yeah, Jamie,

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Speaker 1: what are your general thoughts and feelings towards it? I

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Speaker 1: was really excited for this movie. It, you know, ticked

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Speaker 1: a lot of boxes for me in terms of movies

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Speaker 1: I want to watch. I am Kristen Stewart fan. I'm

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Speaker 1: a Cleo Devolve fan. I came in with high hopes

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Speaker 1: and I left. I left really said, yeah, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I think that there are good elements to this movie,

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Speaker 1: and like a lot of it kind of range. I

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Speaker 1: just my main thing with this movie is just it

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Speaker 1: feels like a lot of movies we've discussed and that

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Speaker 1: it's like, wow, it's like a lesbian Christmas movie, but

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Speaker 1: it's also about like white Republicans running for mayor, and

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Speaker 1: you're like, well, it was that necessary? Like it seems

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Speaker 1: like it's casting a very, very wide net, and I

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Speaker 1: just I don't know, it was annoying to me to

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Speaker 1: see a rich Republican family um also actively trying to

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Speaker 1: gain power in their community for the entire movie and

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Speaker 1: to be rooting for that in the year I wasn't

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Speaker 1: rooting for. I wanted him to lose like that, and

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Speaker 1: for Harper to be extremely complicit in that and like

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Speaker 1: trying to help her Republican dad get elected. And it's

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Speaker 1: just like what And to be fair, like the movie

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Speaker 1: doesn't explicitly say that this family are Republicans, but the

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Speaker 1: Victor Garber character is like very much coded as a

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Speaker 1: Republican politician. So Harper is like trying to get her

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Speaker 1: conservative dad elected. And also Harper is really emotionally manipulative

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Speaker 1: and abusive to her partner Abbey, and I am not

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Speaker 1: rooting for that. Relationship at all. I really felt like

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Speaker 1: the the lesson of the movie was sort of it's

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Speaker 1: okay if some do you treat your like ship over

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Speaker 1: and over and over again as long as I tell

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Speaker 1: you I love you at the end, and I was like,

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Speaker 1: you know, that's a textbook abusive dynamic, Like that's literally

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Speaker 1: what abuse is is somebody treating you badly and then

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Speaker 1: telling you but it's okay, I love you. I'm over

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Speaker 1: all the same page here I was. It's I was okay.

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Speaker 1: I mean, part of why I insisted you guys out

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Speaker 1: yourselves to me at the beginning is I feel like

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Speaker 1: one of I feel like one of the polarizing aspects

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Speaker 1: of this movie is I actually feel like straight people

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Speaker 1: love it. It is a movie like four straight People.

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Speaker 1: It seems like it's for especially in that ending scene

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Speaker 1: which we'll talk about with Victor Garber and Mary stein Bergin,

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Speaker 1: where they are like, you know, we really should accept

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Speaker 1: our gay daughter, don't you think? And You're like, is

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Speaker 1: this two thousand and six? Like what year is this

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Speaker 1: movie happening? In this movie really feels like it came

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Speaker 1: out in the mid two thousands, since I was like,

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Speaker 1: how is it possible Bowl that like, this is like

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Speaker 1: the kind of movie I would have snuck out of

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Speaker 1: a blockbuster when I was fourteen years old, like under

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Speaker 1: my jacket, so my mom didn't see, Like, how is

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Speaker 1: it possible that fifteen years later we're making this exact

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Speaker 1: same movie And I don't know. I mean, it seems

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Speaker 1: like just based on the interviews I read with clear

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Speaker 1: divol surrounding this, it seems like it's it's not like

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Speaker 1: her exact experience, but it's like pulled from experiences of

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Speaker 1: like her and people that she knows. So just like

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Speaker 1: I said it in the past, like why you know this?

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Speaker 1: If this movie took place during the Bush administration, it

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Speaker 1: would make a lot more sense to me than it does. Well,

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Speaker 1: I don't think that there's any I mean, well, I'm

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Speaker 1: sure we'll get into this in more detail, but something

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Speaker 1: that really bothered me about this movie is that there's

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Speaker 1: an overall lack of specificity. Yeah, so, like I don't

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Speaker 1: think that I don't think that they even got to

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Speaker 1: the part where they were like what year does it

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Speaker 1: take place in? Like it's sort of like it's a family,

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Speaker 1: it's Christmas, it's a Christmas time of year. We're Instagram

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Speaker 1: and iPads exist, but that's about but we don't. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're lesbians. We love each other. You are my person.

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Speaker 1: That's why we love each other, right, Harper. Harper's the

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Speaker 1: more because I've seen this movie three times now, um

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Speaker 1: and the this pass watch. When I was like getting

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Speaker 1: ready for this episode, I was like, whoa Harper? Really?

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Speaker 1: Just there is not one point where Abby establishes a

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Speaker 1: boundary with her that she respects, never un till the

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Speaker 1: very end, and from the very first second to even

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Speaker 1: like the moment that they ostensibly give you as like

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Speaker 1: their establishing relationship moment, the first thing that happens is

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Speaker 1: Kristin Stewart goes, I don't want to go up there,

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Speaker 1: and Harper goes, go on, go up there. That's the

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Speaker 1: first thing that happens. Even before that, Kristin Stewart's like,

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Speaker 1: I don't really like Christmas, and Harper's like, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: make you look Christmas. And it's just like, just let

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Speaker 1: Abby not like Christmas. It's okay to not like Christmas. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: not like in Christmas representation. Yeah. I feel I feel

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Speaker 1: so seen in this I did think of you at

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Speaker 1: the beginning scene. I was like oh, it's like when

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Speaker 1: me and Caitlin hang out into much like Abby's much

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Speaker 1: like Kristen Stewart's character Abby, who is a pet sitter

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Speaker 1: over the holidays. That's like my whole gig over the

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Speaker 1: holiday season. I cat sit for like twelve different cats.

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Speaker 1: Brag one cat for every day of Christmas exactly the

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Speaker 1: twelve cats up Christmas. Um I yeah, I did. Also,

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Speaker 1: this was the first time that it really I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: it is Christen Stewart falls off of a building in

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Speaker 1: the first three minutes of the movie. That's wild there. Okay.

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Speaker 1: So something that really struck me as totally off about

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Speaker 1: this movie is like, okay, it's it's a Christmas movie.

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Speaker 1: We sort of accept the kind of exaggerated reality. We

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Speaker 1: would accept that zany things happen, but like this movie

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Speaker 1: happens in total realism. And then it's punctuated by these

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Speaker 1: few moments such as Christen Swart falling off the roof.

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Speaker 1: But because nothing like that has been happening, it's like, whoa,

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Speaker 1: Like she just fell off the roof, Like check her ankle?

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Speaker 1: Is her ankle? Okay, right, it's weird. Yeah, It's like

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Speaker 1: it seems like maybe they were like on some draft

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Speaker 1: of the script, they're like, let's throw in a little

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Speaker 1: like hallmarky stuff here, but it doesn't make sense with

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Speaker 1: the deep trauma that consumes most of the movie. The

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Speaker 1: room scene, No, it's scary. The room of scene is scary,

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Speaker 1: and it was like, why would you put this like scary?

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Speaker 1: There are a few moments that will get to that

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Speaker 1: I actually think are scary horror moments where like this

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Speaker 1: should not be in this movie, right, just change it,

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Speaker 1: take it out. And then there's other ones that again

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Speaker 1: like like the other end of that tonal dissonance spectrum

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Speaker 1: of like that mall security like interrogation, which just like

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Speaker 1: it's funny, but it's like it also doesn't feel it

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Speaker 1: doesn't align with the tone really of a lot of

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Speaker 1: the rest of the movie. Yeah. Well, something that I

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Speaker 1: think is like Kristin Stewart is not a comedic actor.

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Speaker 1: She can be a very good actor in the right projects,

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Speaker 1: but she's not a comedic actor, and I personally don't

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Speaker 1: think she's right to be the lead in a romantic comedy.

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Speaker 1: So like, specifically that part where she's getting interrogated at

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Speaker 1: the mall, we have who is it? Lauren Labkis and

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Speaker 1: I can't remember the other person, but they're doing like

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Speaker 1: zany big right, and they're doing these huge characters and

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Speaker 1: christ and Stewart can't even do a straight man. She's

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Speaker 1: just like genuinely terrified that she's been right. And I

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Speaker 1: was like, oh my god, like I don't want to

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Speaker 1: watch her like suffer while these characters like harass her

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Speaker 1: like because she is not responding to it in a

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Speaker 1: comedy way. They're just watching characters like scare her. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: which made me really appreciate Dan Lovey's performance, particularly because

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Speaker 1: he's such like that. If he wasn't like genuinely a

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Speaker 1: really good actor on top of being a good comedic actor,

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Speaker 1: those scenes with him and Kristin Stewart would have been

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Speaker 1: so jarring. But he like towed the line and it

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Speaker 1: was like he was wonderful. He was wonderful. I would

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Speaker 1: have watched a whole movie of him. Yes, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: wish he had the whole runner with like him in

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Speaker 1: The Fish. I'm like, that's the level of comedy that

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Speaker 1: makes sense for this movie. But then when it got

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Speaker 1: to goofy or just like what is going on? This

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Speaker 1: is this is an interesting rewrite that we got, um,

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Speaker 1: well should I recap it chin yes, um, and then

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Speaker 1: just jump in whenever we we yelled throughout the recap,

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Speaker 1: I would love we love t ll Okay. So Abby

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Speaker 1: Kristen Stewart and Harper is Mackenzie Davis. They are a couple. Uh.

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Speaker 1: They live in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Gotta love that western Pennsylvania representation.

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Speaker 1: Whoo whoo Um. It's Christmas time and Harper loves Christmas.

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Speaker 1: But Abby is like me about it, especially ever since

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Speaker 1: her parents died ten years prior. Her plan for the

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Speaker 1: holidays is to just pet sit for some people, but

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Speaker 1: Harper invites Abby to come home with her and meet

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Speaker 1: Harper's family for Christmas time. So then we get a

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Speaker 1: scene with Abby and her friend John. That's dan lovey,

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Speaker 1: and Abby is like, by the way, I'm going to

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Speaker 1: propose to Harper on Christmas morning? Insane lesbian. They've been

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Speaker 1: together for a year too, one year, and they show

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Speaker 1: you in all in the opening credits. You never actually

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Speaker 1: see their relationship. They just show you over the opening credits.

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Speaker 1: So they've been together for one year and now she's

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Speaker 1: to propose to her on Christmas. That was one thing

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Speaker 1: that I like that was like a story issue I

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Speaker 1: had that was like, you're first of all, expecting me

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Speaker 1: to root for this pretty clearly abusive relationship when I

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Speaker 1: know nothing about why the relationship was ever important to Abby, Like,

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Speaker 1: exactly answer me this. I also think that it's huge

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Speaker 1: to give her like both of her parents are dead

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Speaker 1: and she's all alone, and she's been alone for so long, right,

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Speaker 1: but we've never we don't really talk about it. We

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Speaker 1: don't really know how it affects her. We don't really

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Speaker 1: know what she thinks about it. We just know she's

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Speaker 1: her parents are dead and she's alone. It's just a

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Speaker 1: joke that's made constantly where everyone thinks that she grew

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Speaker 1: up as an orphan and she was like no, like

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Speaker 1: I was an adult when they die. But we and

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Speaker 1: we also don't know. I mean, I guess we don't

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Speaker 1: really need to know what happened to her parents, but

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Speaker 1: it sounds like both of her parents died at once.

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Speaker 1: It just sounds like a massive, massive thing to happen

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Speaker 1: in somebody's life for us to not know anything about it.

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Speaker 1: We do find out that they were professors at what

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Speaker 1: Carnegie Me, Yeah, what would have happened to two professors

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Speaker 1: at Carnegie Melon at once, what would have happened? Like

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Speaker 1: it sounds like accident. Yeah, like what, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I had a question that was I I had never

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Speaker 1: caught before that they were both professors and that was

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Speaker 1: why she was going to get her PhD, which also

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Speaker 1: never becomes relevant to the plot. Ever, Oh my god,

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Speaker 1: it was like Phantom of the Opera, like a chandelier

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Speaker 1: dropped on them, Like what acts it happen as a

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Speaker 1: freak accident in the Carnegie Melon concert hall. And then

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Speaker 1: we find out at the end that Abby was out

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Speaker 1: to her parents before the chandelier dropped and that they

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Speaker 1: were very accepting of her. But those are like it

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Speaker 1: only comes it comes up more as a joke that

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Speaker 1: it comes up as like probably the most traumatic thing

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Speaker 1: that has ever happened to Abbey. Like it's weird. The

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Speaker 1: stakes there are confusing. Yeah, yeah for Abby. Anyway, so

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Speaker 1: they're on the way to Harper's family and on the

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Speaker 1: way there, Harper reveals that she never actually came out

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Speaker 1: to her parents like she said that she did, so

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Speaker 1: she had lied about that, and they do not know

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Speaker 1: that Harper is gay nor that Abby is her girlfriend. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so turn the car around. Yeah, it's easy, right, or

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Speaker 1: Harper tell her at that breakfast scene, when you clearly

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Speaker 1: are having major second thoughts about Abby coming home with you,

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Speaker 1: maybe tell her then. That was one of the parts

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Speaker 1: that really hurt my feelings actually, was that, like the

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Speaker 1: whole setup is her going come home with me? And

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Speaker 1: Abby is like, what, really, I never even thought to ask.

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Speaker 1: I never even thought I would love to come home

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Speaker 1: with you. And then the next day she's like, oh

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Speaker 1: did I say that. I didn't mean that. I was like, oh, like,

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Speaker 1: and I'm supposed to root for her, Like she immediately

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Speaker 1: just hurt my feelings. Yeah, my feelings. It's about me,

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Speaker 1: But I mean, it's it. There's there's moments where and

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Speaker 1: I've seen like some i mean, the we can't even

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Speaker 1: really get into the Twitter discourse on this movie. It was,

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Speaker 1: there was so much of it. But I did see

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Speaker 1: some people who were like, well, you know, consider Harper's perspective,

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Speaker 1: She's in a shitty situation, but it's like, that doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean that you don't offer your partner and out like

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Speaker 1: the fact that she didn't like even if we get

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Speaker 1: as far as I'm driving you and I was too

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Speaker 1: afraid to tell you I didn't actually come out to

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Speaker 1: my family. She doesn't even say in that scene like

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Speaker 1: if you want, I will just bring you back home

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Speaker 1: and like we can work this out later, like I'm

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Speaker 1: really sorry, I fucked up. Like she didn't even give

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Speaker 1: Abby an option to leave. That's like evil. She actually goes,

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Speaker 1: it's not fair, it's not fair for you to expect me.

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Speaker 1: Like it is immediately about her own feelings and her

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Speaker 1: own experience, and immediately she positions it as though Abby

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Speaker 1: is pressuring her into a situation that actually she instigated

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Speaker 1: the entire time. I and and Abby is so I

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Speaker 1: just Abby just get steamrolled at so many moments in

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Speaker 1: this movie, just to like not rock the boat and

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Speaker 1: to not upset her partner, which is another element of

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Speaker 1: an abusive relationship. Right, if I had written this movie,

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Speaker 1: if they had given me this exact cast and this

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Speaker 1: exact premise, I would have been like, Okay, the premise

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Speaker 1: is Harper says to Abby, I want you to come

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Speaker 1: home for Christmas with me. But here's the deal. My

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Speaker 1: family is Republican, they're conservative. They don't know I'm out.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry I lied, so you can come with me.

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Speaker 1: But the deal is we have to pretend that we're

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Speaker 1: straight and we're friends, and they go, but they can't

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Speaker 1: keep their hands off each other. Yeah, that's the that's

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Speaker 1: the tension is that they have like so much sexual

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Speaker 1: tension that they were like trying to be straight friends. Right,

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Speaker 1: that's already better, right, But instead, Kristin Stewart and Mackenzie

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Speaker 1: Davis do not really have on screen chemistry, so it's

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Speaker 1: like you barely believe that they're in love. And then

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Speaker 1: the cruelty of like throwing Aubrey Plaza in the mix

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Speaker 1: with Kristin Stewart when they very much they have way

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Speaker 1: more chemistry than her and Mackenzie Davis, and it's and

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Speaker 1: it's again, it's just like, what do you want me

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Speaker 1: to do? Movie? Like, I have eyes, I can sense

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Speaker 1: things about people, and they're kind of start wearing the

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Speaker 1: same jacket, and you don't want me to want them

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Speaker 1: to be together? Come on there? Like right, yeah, there,

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Speaker 1: I also there. The more I watched this movie, I

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Speaker 1: was like, oh, they actually they kind of don't have chemistry,

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Speaker 1: which I I mean, I like, I like both of

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Speaker 1: the actors individually, but together I was just like, I'm

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Speaker 1: just I'm not rooting for it, right, Okay, So Harper

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Speaker 1: is like, you're just going to have to pretend to

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Speaker 1: be my roommate who is straight and will gets through

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Speaker 1: this for the next five days. Uh. And the reason

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Speaker 1: that Harper doesn't want to come out to her family

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Speaker 1: is is because it's a stressful time for her dad,

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Speaker 1: in particular because he's running for mayor. Her dad is

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Speaker 1: literally like, Hi, I'm Eric Garcetti, Like it's so that whole,

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Speaker 1: that whole element. I was like, this is just not

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Speaker 1: the year to throw a wealthy, aspiring political animal into

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Speaker 1: the mix. No, thank you, you can just the Victor

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Speaker 1: Garber character is like Joe Biden put me in the cabinet,

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Speaker 1: come on, please, Like it's just, oh, it's very depressing. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So Harper is just like, I'll tell them after the holidays,

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Speaker 1: but I can't do it before that because it's a

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Speaker 1: very stressful time with his campaign and everything, and we're like,

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Speaker 1: he's trying to take away our rights. I can't do

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Speaker 1: it now while he's I can't just track him from

404
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Speaker 1: trying to take away our rights. He might have empathy,

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Speaker 1: he might not take away our rights. I just need

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Speaker 1: to make sure if that my father successfully removes our

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Speaker 1: rights before I tell him that he has actually taken

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00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:07,359
Speaker 1: away my rights right exactly. And that's family. That's family

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Speaker 1: to make and and and the insult of gay icon

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Speaker 1: Victor Garber having to play this all out. It's just

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Speaker 1: not right. Yes, I agree, I agree. Love. I love

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Speaker 1: Victor Garber so much. He they're my favorite Victor Garber

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Speaker 1: Quarantine anecdote was like Jennifer Garner made a weird video

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Speaker 1: when we were in the first lockdown in like April,

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Speaker 1: where she's like, I stay inside for my family, for nurses.

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Speaker 1: And then it was like for Victor Garber, and because

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Speaker 1: she loves him, because they were on Alias. Yes, and

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Speaker 1: he shout up Mr Andrews from Titanic. Victor Garber is

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Speaker 1: taking away his own rights in this movie. It's not right,

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Speaker 1: confusing um. So Abby is upset by all of this,

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Speaker 1: of course, but she well, she has no choice but

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Speaker 1: to agree to go along with this sharade um and

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Speaker 1: to like kind of make the best of it. So

424
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:04,119
Speaker 1: they arrive at Harper's house and meet her family, including

425
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:09,000
Speaker 1: her mother Tipper that's Mary Steen Virgin, her dad Ted

426
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:14,200
Speaker 1: Victor Garber, her sister Jane that's Mary Holland, who also

427
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:17,240
Speaker 1: co wrote the screenplay, and then we also eventually meet

428
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:21,480
Speaker 1: her other sister, Sloan played by Alison Bree, who has

429
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:25,800
Speaker 1: a husband Eric and two small children, also Tipper. Once

430
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:27,680
Speaker 1: I heard the name Tipper, I'm like, I know all

431
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:30,399
Speaker 1: I need to know. I was like, that's one of

432
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:32,640
Speaker 1: those names where I like, that was the first time

433
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 1: I'd ever heard a person with that name, and it's

434
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:39,080
Speaker 1: I'm just like, I don't know who that is. Is

435
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:42,879
Speaker 1: that al Gore's wife? I was like, that's politicians wife energy,

436
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:46,399
Speaker 1: I gotta gotta get it. I really think Harper and

437
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:49,840
Speaker 1: Abby are sort of like first round fictional lesbian names.

438
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:53,320
Speaker 1: Like if I was making if I was going to

439
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:55,679
Speaker 1: write a sketch right now about lesbians, I'd be like,

440
00:25:55,880 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 1: I don't know, they're Harper and Abbey Abigail. But she

441
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:02,119
Speaker 1: goes by Abby because she's kind of boyish, you know,

442
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 1: she's kind of a tomboy. Right. It's like we could

443
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:07,920
Speaker 1: have used another pass on a lot of these names. Yeah,

444
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 1: because Tipper and Ted, that's like, oh yeah, that's a

445
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:15,479
Speaker 1: white Republican couple. Sure, sure, Um. So the whole family,

446
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:19,200
Speaker 1: including Abby, goes out to dinner that night, and Harper's

447
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:23,159
Speaker 1: mom has invited Harper's ex boyfriend Connor to this dinner,

448
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:26,200
Speaker 1: hoping that he and Harper will get back together. They

449
00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:30,480
Speaker 1: also run into another of Harper's exes, Riley. That's Aubrey

450
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 1: Plaza's character. So things just like kind of keep getting

451
00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:36,720
Speaker 1: more and more awkward. Can I just say about this

452
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:40,399
Speaker 1: scene something that drove me crazy when I watched it

453
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:44,040
Speaker 1: a second time is I realized, Um, they're all at dinner,

454
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:47,439
Speaker 1: sitting around a table, but nobody has any food, and

455
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 1: nobody ever takes a drink. Everybody sits at the table

456
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:53,080
Speaker 1: with their arms down. There are wine glasses half full

457
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:54,879
Speaker 1: on the table, but no one ever touches them, and

458
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 1: no one ever takes a drink. They just sit and

459
00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:01,680
Speaker 1: put their arms down. That's infuriated, right, And there are

460
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:04,840
Speaker 1: also like something else I noticed about the movie that

461
00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:07,400
Speaker 1: I was like, this is why this movie feels so uncanny.

462
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:10,040
Speaker 1: Is it's dead silent almost all the way through the movie.

463
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:14,200
Speaker 1: There are very few instances of music, including times when

464
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:16,040
Speaker 1: you would expect there to be music, such as in

465
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:18,840
Speaker 1: a restaurant during the Christmas season, but there's no music

466
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 1: at any party, right, There's no music at the party.

467
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:26,320
Speaker 1: There's no music when they're ice skating. It's dead silent. Wow,

468
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:29,160
Speaker 1: that is extremely dry. I didn't even notice that. It's

469
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:31,199
Speaker 1: like this movie is not doing itself any favors and

470
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 1: making it less. It's literally stepping out of the genre,

471
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:40,000
Speaker 1: like you want there to be too much music. Instead

472
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:43,359
Speaker 1: there's like no music, drowned in like public Like every

473
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:45,680
Speaker 1: Hallmark movie I've ever seen is just drowned in public

474
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:50,520
Speaker 1: domain Christmas songs by like nobody in this movie. Yeah,

475
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:53,359
Speaker 1: which was wild because I really feel like it was

476
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 1: marketed as having because Tegan and Sarah did a song

477
00:27:56,400 --> 00:28:00,480
Speaker 1: for it, and it was marketed very, very heavily with

478
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:02,680
Speaker 1: Teagan and Sarah. So I thought it was going to

479
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:06,920
Speaker 1: have like a Teagan and Sarah like lesbian rock Christmas soundtrack,

480
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:09,960
Speaker 1: like whole soundtrack, right, yeah, the whole thing. But no,

481
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 1: you only hear them literally during the credits of the

482
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:14,679
Speaker 1: very end. Yeah, and it's a cute song, but it

483
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 1: was like, where, why couldn't could we not afford to

484
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:20,360
Speaker 1: use it throughout the movie? Like what is it would

485
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:22,479
Speaker 1: have been nice? I don't because it only plays for

486
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:24,720
Speaker 1: like thirty seconds or something. It's not even the full

487
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:27,720
Speaker 1: song that you get because then it cuts to another song,

488
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:30,440
Speaker 1: I think, or does it? I don't it does it

489
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:32,960
Speaker 1: cuts to another song that's like I mean, but I

490
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:34,879
Speaker 1: don't know who did it. It's not as good. I

491
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,119
Speaker 1: would have liked to continue to listening to the Teagan

492
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 1: and Sarah song. Yeah, I had a the more okay

493
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 1: as as I continued to watch this movie over and

494
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 1: over and over. The Aubrey Plaza's character Riley. Her entrances

495
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:52,200
Speaker 1: are always very funny to me because she always just

496
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 1: like is suddenly there. She like appears and she comes

497
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 1: up from behind like out of like Alley's out of

498
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 1: like she's always alone. She always just is suddenly there,

499
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 1: And it's like I genuinely was like, does she have

500
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 1: anywhere else to be? Like? Does she have anyone else

501
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 1: to hang out with around the holidays? Like I started

502
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 1: feeling bad for her. It makes no sense that she like,

503
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 1: it makes no sense that she's at her ex's family

504
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:23,720
Speaker 1: holiday party. Why what they could have justified that through

505
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:27,920
Speaker 1: like giving her a job in politics or something, but

506
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 1: they don't even do that. And it's awkward. Yeah, it's

507
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 1: awkward because like now they have to see each other

508
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 1: like that. Yeah, that makes sense, and as it is,

509
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:37,960
Speaker 1: like she is one of the best parts of the movie,

510
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 1: so we need her there, but it is sort of

511
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:42,239
Speaker 1: like why where, Why is she here? But she does

512
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 1: keep just like conveniently running into abbey, which is like

513
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 1: I don't just like all those coincidences and like slinking

514
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:54,000
Speaker 1: out of an alley. I identify with that, I identify

515
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:58,959
Speaker 1: with that. That's me, that's me, just like popping up

516
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:02,320
Speaker 1: like did somebody say, did somebody say, did somebody say

517
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 1: my ex girlfriend? That was It was wild realizing that

518
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:11,560
Speaker 1: she is always just she is just in the scene

519
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 1: I had. Okay, So my page for Riley is like

520
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 1: to keep her in this universe, to keep her in

521
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 1: this political I want her to like be working for

522
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 1: whoever's running against Victor Garber. There is some fun tention

523
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 1: she's like Victor Garber's training to take our rights away,

524
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 1: like what the funk? And then we could get for

525
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 1: all the setup we get of like how Harper also

526
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:37,280
Speaker 1: traumatized Riley. You don't get a scene with the two

527
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 1: of them, which I also thought was strange or I

528
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:43,760
Speaker 1: mean they weirdly shake hands at the end, Yeah, like oh,

529
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:47,520
Speaker 1: like you do with your exes. A firm handshake. Harper

530
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 1: gives a pretty minimal apology for literally ruining Riley's adolescence.

531
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 1: She's like, yeah, sorry about that. I hope I don't

532
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 1: do it again, even though I are he kind of

533
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 1: did whipsies. Yeah anyway, anyways, Oh yeah that was Riley

534
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:11,240
Speaker 1: is always slinking out of somewhere in a sexy jacket,

535
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 1: always a blazer. Um. Oh, let's take a quick break

536
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 1: and then we'll come back from more recap and we're back. Okay,

537
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:30,800
Speaker 1: So we've met Harper's family. Everything is very awkward, especially

538
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 1: for Abby, and then there's also an uncomfortable competitiveness between

539
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 1: Harper and her sister Sloan Um. They seem to be

540
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 1: competing for her their dad's approval. There's this whole ice

541
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:46,480
Speaker 1: skate race scene, and then there's this big party where

542
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 1: Victor Garber is trying to get Um Harry played by

543
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 1: on a guest dire Uh to be a donor for

544
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:58,080
Speaker 1: his campaign um in. In that scene, this is when

545
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 1: Abby runs into Riley again in because Riley SLINKs out

546
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 1: from behind a corner Um and Riley is like, hey,

547
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:08,880
Speaker 1: by the way, I can relate to what you're going

548
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 1: through with Harper and Abbey again having to maintain this

549
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 1: um kind of facade is like, I don't know what

550
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:18,520
Speaker 1: you're talking about. Well, that's the scene where she also

551
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:22,600
Speaker 1: says nice jacket, right, or I like your jacket. Yes. Sorry,

552
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 1: That's one of my top opery plasma moments of the movie.

553
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:30,640
Speaker 1: Something is weirdly happening with the production, like the production

554
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:33,920
Speaker 1: design in this movie, because it's also very it's very dark,

555
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 1: like they're at this party. Everybody's wearing black. I'm like,

556
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:39,960
Speaker 1: we're at a Christmas party. Like, no, there's no green,

557
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 1: there's no there's no lights. Everyone's wearing black. That's true.

558
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 1: And like even when in the other scenes when it's

559
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:49,280
Speaker 1: just them in their casual clothing, everyone's wearing gray or

560
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 1: brown or like a dark green, like it's a very muted,

561
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 1: non festive palette. That yeah, it's like Harper is wearing

562
00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 1: black and almost every festive scene of this that is weird. God, Okay,

563
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 1: this is just like becoming full Uncanny Valley. The more

564
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:10,480
Speaker 1: you describe it. Even Kristin Stewart's most festive outfit, which

565
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:12,120
Speaker 1: is the one where she's wearing the blazer with the

566
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:15,040
Speaker 1: shirt unbuttoned all the way and it's like sequence, but

567
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 1: it's gray, right, everything is still like gray black white

568
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:22,120
Speaker 1: and right? Is this how Republican celebrate like they're at

569
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 1: a funeral like I did? Yeah, that is really weird.

570
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:30,720
Speaker 1: Kristin Stewart also always looks cold. I think this is

571
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 1: just sort of her thing. But I really feel like

572
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 1: the whole movie is watching her be alone and being like, like,

573
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 1: on the I don't know, she's making me feel bad,

574
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:42,560
Speaker 1: but I love her so much. Like I was like

575
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 1: somebody like wrap her in a blanket and like put

576
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 1: her somewhere safe. Um, okay. And then there's this whole

577
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 1: sequence where Abby gets caught sneaking up to Harper's room

578
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 1: and then she has to play it off as sleepwalking,

579
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 1: and then the following morning, Harper almost it's caught having

580
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 1: spent the night in Abby's room by her family. So

581
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 1: I have a huge note for them here. Please for me,

582
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:14,440
Speaker 1: the fact that they chose to have them hook up

583
00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:17,960
Speaker 1: in the guest room and not Harper's little girl bedroom

584
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:20,839
Speaker 1: tells me everything I need to know about who made

585
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:24,759
Speaker 1: this movie. That eliminates everything for me. I was like, Okay,

586
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:28,040
Speaker 1: I get it. We're not here to have fun. That's

587
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:31,400
Speaker 1: like the dream. That's always it is a dream. And

588
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:34,080
Speaker 1: literally the way they set it up with the set

589
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 1: where she has all those horse trophies everywhere and all

590
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:39,840
Speaker 1: those ribbons, I'm like, I'm seeing the headboard banging and

591
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 1: the ribbons like going like this, you have to show anything.

592
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:45,239
Speaker 1: It's funny. It's funny to have them have sex in

593
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:48,760
Speaker 1: the horse trophy room. And they chose, they actively chose

594
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:53,000
Speaker 1: the less interesting choice. Yeah, just a vague ikea like

595
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:56,080
Speaker 1: that's I mean, it's it's the dream to have sex

596
00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:58,360
Speaker 1: with the love of your life and your childhood bedroom.

597
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:01,600
Speaker 1: It's the right amount of growth like there, and it

598
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:04,440
Speaker 1: was right there, especially if it's if it's a Republican

599
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:08,640
Speaker 1: your Republican household and your secret lesbian girlfriend. That's so hot,

600
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:16,120
Speaker 1: that's so much fun. That's ball dropped. Ball dropped, Yeah, truly. Okay,

601
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:19,160
Speaker 1: So then the next day Abby gets arrested by mall

602
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 1: security because Sloan's kids slip a necklace into her bag.

603
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:27,319
Speaker 1: So now Harper's whole family thinks that Abby is a

604
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:31,120
Speaker 1: criminal and she gets uninvited to this big dinner. Does

605
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 1: not make sense to me, And if we're supposed to

606
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:38,839
Speaker 1: believe it makes sense. Why wouldn't Harper like why this

607
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 1: is such an easy argument to win, to be like

608
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:44,919
Speaker 1: she didn't steal anything, like just let her come, don't

609
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:48,319
Speaker 1: be it, don't like leave this person who doesn't know

610
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:52,799
Speaker 1: anyone here alone to go to dinner by herself, Like right,

611
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 1: Harper should have been like, well, if Abby's not going,

612
00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:59,840
Speaker 1: I'm not going, Like I'm not gonna Like Harper makes

613
00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:04,360
Speaker 1: the wrong choice every single time. This is what really

614
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:09,120
Speaker 1: makes me feel betrayed by this movie is that, like,

615
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 1: you know, holidays and family holidays especially are a really

616
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:15,160
Speaker 1: sensitive topic for a lot of queer people because a

617
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:17,400
Speaker 1: lot of people don't get to have those moments with

618
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 1: their families. And so I sort of was like, you know,

619
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:23,360
Speaker 1: you're giving us this movie, being like this is a

620
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:27,160
Speaker 1: romantic comedy for you for the holidays, and then it

621
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:31,560
Speaker 1: shows us this queer person being alone, like it's an

622
00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:36,960
Speaker 1: experience of watching a queer person be totally alone during Christmas,

623
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:40,360
Speaker 1: and I was like, this actually feels bad, Like I

624
00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:43,439
Speaker 1: know how it feels to be queer and alone at Christmas,

625
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:46,400
Speaker 1: And why is that the image time getting in the

626
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:53,759
Speaker 1: lesbian romantic comedy the Happiest Season? Right? Watching her like

627
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:57,240
Speaker 1: walk down the street alone. I was like god like,

628
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:00,319
Speaker 1: And then to have the conclusion of the movie be

629
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:03,320
Speaker 1: like and actually it was good that all of that happened,

630
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:09,919
Speaker 1: It's like, no, that's not yeah, Christens, I just being

631
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:13,440
Speaker 1: that isolated on top of already less than forty eight

632
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:16,719
Speaker 1: hours ago, a gigantic betrayal from someone you thought you

633
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:18,920
Speaker 1: were going to marry, and then to just be like

634
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 1: thrown out into like the streets of this random Christmas

635
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:28,279
Speaker 1: studio lot, it's just just sucked up. Also, why did

636
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:32,600
Speaker 1: they do stealing black children? Yeah? Why did they do that?

637
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:35,200
Speaker 1: They shouldn't have done that, They shouldn't have been Like, now,

638
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:38,160
Speaker 1: the plot point is that the black children steal yep,

639
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 1: especially in a movie where that is like so extremely

640
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:46,760
Speaker 1: white that there's only three black characters in this movie.

641
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:50,719
Speaker 1: It's Alison Bree's husband and then her two children. And yeah,

642
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 1: they're stealing and stealing and receiving racism. They're only there

643
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:57,920
Speaker 1: for them to be racist to them, right, And it

644
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:00,960
Speaker 1: felt like the movie was token I using those characters

645
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:05,080
Speaker 1: for the sake of including more diversity without actually doing

646
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 1: anything meaningful with or about those characters. Yeah, and that

647
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:13,760
Speaker 1: and and those and their characters have like no arcs.

648
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:16,640
Speaker 1: I really dislike Sloan's character, so I'm just like, I

649
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:19,319
Speaker 1: just try to block out that entire story. Like but

650
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:22,200
Speaker 1: the fact that it's like if if she is going

651
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:24,800
Speaker 1: to be there with her husband, give her husband a story,

652
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:27,920
Speaker 1: Give the only black adult in this movie a story?

653
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:31,240
Speaker 1: What what are you doing? Yeah? How does he feel

654
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:37,520
Speaker 1: about like having married into this Republican family? Right? Exactly exactly?

655
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:41,280
Speaker 1: I thought that in multiple points. I'm like, is literally

656
00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 1: everyone on board here? Is there any I want to

657
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:47,720
Speaker 1: be rooting for Jane? But is Jane? Like I guess

658
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:50,879
Speaker 1: I'm just a Republican? Like, is everyone on board here?

659
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:56,040
Speaker 1: And if so, let's discuss, Like it's just so weird.

660
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:03,160
Speaker 1: Um Okay. So Abby has gotten uninvited to this big event,

661
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:07,960
Speaker 1: so instead she hangs out with Riley at a drag show. Meanwhile,

662
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:11,359
Speaker 1: Harper is not making any time for Abby and she

663
00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:15,319
Speaker 1: is hanging out with her high school boyfriend Connor all night.

664
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:20,440
Speaker 1: So all this, like sneaking around and lying and repressing,

665
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:25,319
Speaker 1: is weighing on the relationship. Harper starts to withdraw and

666
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:28,279
Speaker 1: she's like, I need space. So Abby is like trying

667
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 1: to figure out if she should just leave, but an

668
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 1: uber is going to cost like a thousand dollars, so

669
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:34,799
Speaker 1: she's like, I guess I just have to stick it out,

670
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:40,759
Speaker 1: and inescapable being unable to leave a partner's uh as

671
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:44,839
Speaker 1: someone who's tried to escape someone else's family's holiday more

672
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:50,040
Speaker 1: than once. That is the most heavy moment of dread,

673
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:53,880
Speaker 1: where you're like, I can't there's I cannot go. I

674
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:57,400
Speaker 1: cannot go unless my partner cheeses to show me some grace,

675
00:39:57,560 --> 00:40:01,880
Speaker 1: which they won't. I love that it's a horror moment.

676
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:05,239
Speaker 1: It's a horror moment. She's trapped. In that moment, she

677
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:09,280
Speaker 1: realized that she is trapped. I also thought that something

678
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:11,680
Speaker 1: that this movie captured very well but I almost think

679
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:16,399
Speaker 1: did by accident is the tonal shift between when they're

680
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:19,400
Speaker 1: at the drag Bar two when she goes back to

681
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:23,520
Speaker 1: straight land, and I was like, this is what it's

682
00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:27,240
Speaker 1: like to like feel this like huge relief to find

683
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:30,560
Speaker 1: your little pocket, feel a huge relief where you can

684
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:33,759
Speaker 1: finally let go and like not act like anything for anybody,

685
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:37,239
Speaker 1: and then have to suddenly go back like with everyone's

686
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:39,600
Speaker 1: family and act like this again. I was like, that

687
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:42,960
Speaker 1: is real. That's a real experience. Right, that's dark contrast

688
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:47,840
Speaker 1: because Abby meets up with Harper at a bar literally

689
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:57,040
Speaker 1: called Freddy's Fratty If someone had to sometimes, I just

690
00:40:57,160 --> 00:41:00,520
Speaker 1: like I have radical empathy for the people who have

691
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:04,440
Speaker 1: to create sets that are based around kind of lazy writing,

692
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:06,400
Speaker 1: where like someone just had to make a huge as

693
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 1: sign that said Fratty's because no one wanted to do

694
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:14,839
Speaker 1: a second pass. It's it's not fair, but right. It's

695
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:20,360
Speaker 1: like that chosen family versus like biological family and that contrast,

696
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:24,359
Speaker 1: and like that's an interesting thing to explore, but rather

697
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:27,360
Speaker 1: than really doing, the movie is just like, well, let's

698
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:32,239
Speaker 1: just make Harper really emotionally abusive to her partner. I know.

699
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:35,960
Speaker 1: I feel like the tension that also gets set up

700
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:40,360
Speaker 1: but is never resolved is about chosen family and like

701
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:44,960
Speaker 1: non traditional like kind of family units versus like assimilation

702
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:48,600
Speaker 1: and like marriage and like your one true partner forever.

703
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:53,080
Speaker 1: But then it totally just drops this one and it's like, actually,

704
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:55,000
Speaker 1: the marriage thing is like what we always wanted in

705
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:59,240
Speaker 1: the end. Yeah, And it's I don't like the way

706
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:01,400
Speaker 1: that the script kind of trying to wriggle out, Like

707
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:04,640
Speaker 1: the script is very aware that the marriage end game

708
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:08,200
Speaker 1: is very like kind of a really normative place to land,

709
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:11,440
Speaker 1: and they just keep using Dan Levy's character to just

710
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:14,480
Speaker 1: acknowledge that they're aware of that, but then continue to

711
00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 1: do it anyways, where like Dan Levy is like, oh,

712
00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:20,359
Speaker 1: you know, another win for the patriarchy blah blah blah

713
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:23,359
Speaker 1: blah blah, and it's like, okay, so if you know that,

714
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:27,680
Speaker 1: then then well I follows through on it. Yeah. Yeah,

715
00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:30,319
Speaker 1: I kind of was thinking where just like the first

716
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:32,520
Speaker 1: time I was watching this, I thought, because he was

717
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:35,880
Speaker 1: so like his character John is, it was I just

718
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:38,920
Speaker 1: think of him as Dan Levy, but it's yeah, like

719
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:40,959
Speaker 1: it sounded like he was kind of like I thought

720
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:43,880
Speaker 1: that was kind of like foreshadowing for like, oh, you know,

721
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:47,359
Speaker 1: like Abby's gonna like receive that eventually and be like, yeah,

722
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:49,359
Speaker 1: you know what, I I don't need to have this

723
00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:53,840
Speaker 1: very like normative relationship. You know, I can wait, I

724
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:55,959
Speaker 1: can do whatever I want. But then they're like, nope,

725
00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:59,120
Speaker 1: you must get married. You must get married because the

726
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:06,279
Speaker 1: or the mayor will cry. Yeah. Um okay. So then

727
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:12,480
Speaker 1: the Christmas Eve Caldwell party rolls around, John shows up

728
00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:16,240
Speaker 1: to save Abby, and Abby is like, you know what Harper,

729
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:20,640
Speaker 1: it's over. I'm done. And then Harper goes to apologize

730
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:24,759
Speaker 1: and try to kind of reconcile, and as they are

731
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:27,880
Speaker 1: doing that and kind of embracing, Sloan walks in and

732
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:32,280
Speaker 1: sees them and then proceeds to out Harper to the

733
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:35,279
Speaker 1: entire family and everyone in the room, which is like

734
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:38,240
Speaker 1: dozens of people at this holiday party. I hate Sloan.

735
00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:43,839
Speaker 1: I Sloan is the only character who centers herself more

736
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:49,080
Speaker 1: than Harper. Like there Harper centers herself in everything, but

737
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 1: Sloan literally like she takes the cake in terms of

738
00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:57,759
Speaker 1: centering her like boring divorce over like this, I just

739
00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:02,480
Speaker 1: I can't stand. I just can't. Like I've been saying

740
00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:05,680
Speaker 1: this and I'll say it again. I cannot stress this enough.

741
00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:10,080
Speaker 1: This is a triggering moment, Like I cannot imagine, you know,

742
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:13,000
Speaker 1: And I've never had an experience like that of being

743
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:16,040
Speaker 1: like forcibly outed, but I cannot imagine being someone for

744
00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:18,759
Speaker 1: whom this sort of thing has happened to them. And

745
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:22,000
Speaker 1: then they're watching this movie and it suddenly happens and

746
00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:26,239
Speaker 1: they're like not expecting that, you know, because I'm like,

747
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:29,920
Speaker 1: if you want to do a sad coming out story

748
00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:34,360
Speaker 1: that's about a hard family relationship. That's one movie. But

749
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:37,800
Speaker 1: this is like you were telling us the whole time

750
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:40,759
Speaker 1: it's a zany Christmas comedy and then just showing us

751
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:45,279
Speaker 1: these like really kind of triggering circumstances that like real

752
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:48,560
Speaker 1: people have lived through, right, and then taking that and

753
00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:51,040
Speaker 1: turning it into like physical comedy by the end too,

754
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:55,160
Speaker 1: is just so Yeah, they're having like a slapstick comedy

755
00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:58,600
Speaker 1: fight about it, where like a nice painting gets destroyed,

756
00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:02,000
Speaker 1: and and I just I felt so bad for Jane

757
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:05,759
Speaker 1: in that moment and in many moments based on the

758
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:10,719
Speaker 1: way that she's treated by family members. Also, Sloan did

759
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:15,800
Speaker 1: a horrible, unforgivable thing by outing Harper, and she owes

760
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:20,399
Speaker 1: Harper a huge apology which we never see. Harper doesn't

761
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:23,520
Speaker 1: need to speak to her ever again. Like that that

762
00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:27,319
Speaker 1: is that could very well be the end of that relationship.

763
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:31,440
Speaker 1: Like absolutely, Yeah, Harper needs to estrange herself from her

764
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:35,040
Speaker 1: entire family and go to a lot of therapy. She

765
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:38,960
Speaker 1: needs to be alone for a while. Yeah, she needs

766
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:42,919
Speaker 1: to be alone, make some serious amends, and then move

767
00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:49,040
Speaker 1: forward with her life. Has not a Republican shell. I

768
00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:52,560
Speaker 1: just don't get it. I don't. I don't want this

769
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:57,000
Speaker 1: family dynamic to remain intact. But now you're allowed to

770
00:45:57,120 --> 00:46:01,360
Speaker 1: be gay, Like there's a there's it's bigger, there's a

771
00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:04,880
Speaker 1: lot going on. I don't know. I mean it's really

772
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:09,480
Speaker 1: like in that way, it's really a story about whiteness.

773
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:12,799
Speaker 1: And this thing that's about like the last sort of

774
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:16,799
Speaker 1: frontier to get over is like being accepted personally for

775
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:20,080
Speaker 1: being gay. And once we've passed that tire, everything is

776
00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:24,040
Speaker 1: actually totally fine. When like, as you keep saying, Jamie,

777
00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:26,440
Speaker 1: like it's not fine, it's not fine if the Republican

778
00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:30,839
Speaker 1: gets elected as mayor and then this republicanship like it's

779
00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:32,960
Speaker 1: actually not okay. Other people are going to be hurt.

780
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:36,280
Speaker 1: But yeah, anyone who isn't like as rich and white

781
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:39,800
Speaker 1: as their family is is going to demonstrably suffer it.

782
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:45,000
Speaker 1: Just the fact that that never comes up is truly

783
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:50,000
Speaker 1: baffling to me, Like, especially from it doesn't seem like Abbey,

784
00:46:50,239 --> 00:46:52,480
Speaker 1: like I just the person we are sort of like

785
00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:55,719
Speaker 1: told Abby is it doesn't seem like she would be

786
00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:59,319
Speaker 1: okay with that. I just don't. She never gives us

787
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:01,400
Speaker 1: a point of view. We don't have a point of

788
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:05,800
Speaker 1: view from her she just sort of like suffers throughout. Yeah,

789
00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:08,120
Speaker 1: and then the fact, I mean this is very like

790
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:10,600
Speaker 1: I think it was like one of the I guess

791
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:13,120
Speaker 1: rom COMI troupes that is present here, is like She's like,

792
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:16,719
Speaker 1: I'm going to school for art, right, and that's it.

793
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:19,839
Speaker 1: And um no, I'm not going to talk about art

794
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:22,799
Speaker 1: literally even one time. But I'm going to school for

795
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:26,640
Speaker 1: art because my parents had a chandelier dropped on them. Um,

796
00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:31,960
Speaker 1: so you're just like, all right, I guess right. Abby

797
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:36,200
Speaker 1: should take the same approach to her relationship that an

798
00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:40,480
Speaker 1: August Dyer does to like examining Ted as like a

799
00:47:40,680 --> 00:47:43,040
Speaker 1: like someone she might donate to, because it's like, I'm

800
00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 1: not just looking at you, I'm looking at your whole family.

801
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:47,759
Speaker 1: Like Abby should be like, yeah, I'm looking at you

802
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:50,239
Speaker 1: as a partner, but like also your whole family, and

803
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:54,719
Speaker 1: your whole family sucks again minus Jane. But and I'm

804
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:57,120
Speaker 1: not saying that you shouldn't marry someone you want to

805
00:47:57,160 --> 00:48:00,800
Speaker 1: marry because their family is awful. But Abby should have

806
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:03,279
Speaker 1: a choice about whether or not she spends time with

807
00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:07,400
Speaker 1: Harper's family, and she isn't given a choice, and instead

808
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:11,040
Speaker 1: she was lied to and ambushed and forced to be

809
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:15,240
Speaker 1: around these very toxic people. I would not be begging

810
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:19,640
Speaker 1: for these people's approval and acceptance. Yeah, I really want

811
00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:23,560
Speaker 1: Abby to like stand up for herself at any point.

812
00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:26,239
Speaker 1: I mean, but I know it's like she's in this

813
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:29,760
Speaker 1: very uncomfortable position that like again Harper forced her into,

814
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:31,840
Speaker 1: like you have to keep lying, you have to maintain

815
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:36,360
Speaker 1: this charade, and like I feel so bad. It seems

816
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:38,960
Speaker 1: like we're being set up for Like I don't know,

817
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:41,600
Speaker 1: it's again, it's just like you're just saying, it's kind

818
00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:43,800
Speaker 1: of just like a lack of character arc for Abby

819
00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:46,600
Speaker 1: because at the end, it's like she's defined by being

820
00:48:46,719 --> 00:48:50,960
Speaker 1: constantly steamrolled by others, and then by the end she

821
00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:53,799
Speaker 1: is steamrolled for a final time and then she's just

822
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:58,640
Speaker 1: flat like and it's it's actually like the least the

823
00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:02,520
Speaker 1: least forceful steamroll love them all. She just kind of

824
00:49:02,560 --> 00:49:05,680
Speaker 1: like gives in. She's like, Okay, yeah, there's no like

825
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:08,279
Speaker 1: big turning point moment. She just is like no, and

826
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:14,479
Speaker 1: then she's like but yes, right, frustrating, I don't like it.

827
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:17,560
Speaker 1: And and again it's not to keep bringing up my

828
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:22,759
Speaker 1: little alternate Riley idea. But like even if Abby is

829
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:25,520
Speaker 1: defined by being steamrolled. Riley is a character that could

830
00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:27,319
Speaker 1: challenge that in her and be like, why are you

831
00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:29,880
Speaker 1: allowing this to happen to yourself? On top of the

832
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:32,840
Speaker 1: fact that you're being treated like ship, this family aspires

833
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:35,200
Speaker 1: to treat everybody like ship, Like you don't need to

834
00:49:35,239 --> 00:49:38,680
Speaker 1: take this sitting down. And that's why I'm maybe Riley

835
00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:45,520
Speaker 1: should run for mayor I can better. Yes, Wow, sort

836
00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:51,040
Speaker 1: of like female pe movie The Youngest Mayor, The Youngest

837
00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:57,120
Speaker 1: Game Mayor, Trauma of at All. Okay, there's just a

838
00:49:57,120 --> 00:50:00,839
Speaker 1: little tiny bit left of the story where no, it's fine,

839
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:05,320
Speaker 1: so sloan out Harper to the whole room. Um. Harper

840
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:09,400
Speaker 1: denies it at first, but then it's finally like, yes, family,

841
00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:12,680
Speaker 1: I am gay and I'm in love with Abby. And

842
00:50:12,719 --> 00:50:17,560
Speaker 1: then Victor Garber pitches a fit and then um, Abby's

843
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:20,960
Speaker 1: like it's it's too late, and she leaves. But then

844
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:23,759
Speaker 1: Harper shows up at this gas station and she's like,

845
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:26,000
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry, you're the love of my life. I'll

846
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:29,279
Speaker 1: make it up to you, and then they kiss and

847
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:33,680
Speaker 1: that's the big climax of the movie. And then the

848
00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:37,279
Speaker 1: next day is Christmas Day. Harper's family has like come

849
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:41,600
Speaker 1: around they have a what we're meant to believe as

850
00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:45,200
Speaker 1: a nice Christmas together, and then they all live quote

851
00:50:45,239 --> 00:50:50,120
Speaker 1: happily ever after for at least a year. Well they do.

852
00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:54,839
Speaker 1: They do exchange rings. They're wearing rings in the end.

853
00:50:55,160 --> 00:50:58,080
Speaker 1: So she has decided in that moment that it's still

854
00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:01,880
Speaker 1: a good times to propet just get married. Let's take

855
00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:03,840
Speaker 1: a quick break, and then we'll come right back for

856
00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:14,240
Speaker 1: a more discussion. We're back. We're back. That gas station scene,

857
00:51:15,040 --> 00:51:21,399
Speaker 1: just that when Harper just she's just spewing the ship

858
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:23,400
Speaker 1: like it's just so when she's like, I don't care

859
00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:25,399
Speaker 1: what they think, I only care about you, It's like, well,

860
00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:27,520
Speaker 1: name one thing you've done in the past week that

861
00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:32,400
Speaker 1: would demonstrate that, like right, one decision. I don't understand

862
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:37,200
Speaker 1: why they didn't just moviefy that moment. Like, to me,

863
00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:39,880
Speaker 1: you could have given this movie a few different endings

864
00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:42,200
Speaker 1: that I would have liked better. Like the one I

865
00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:45,840
Speaker 1: really like is the one where she where Abby leaves

866
00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:49,839
Speaker 1: with Dan Levy and they have Christmas together and it's

867
00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:52,759
Speaker 1: like about chosen family and about like yeah, like we're

868
00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:56,040
Speaker 1: having our little queer Christmas. The other one is if

869
00:51:56,080 --> 00:51:58,240
Speaker 1: we have to have Abby and Harper end up together.

870
00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:02,319
Speaker 1: How coup Harper doesn't do I huge romantic gesture? How

871
00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:04,719
Speaker 1: come she doesn't do a gesture where she puts in

872
00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:10,480
Speaker 1: Christmas lights, I love you, Kristen Stewart, Merry Christmas, like

873
00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:12,960
Speaker 1: on the roof for the whole neighborhood to see, and

874
00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:15,520
Speaker 1: it's Christmas and the music is playing, Like why don't

875
00:52:15,560 --> 00:52:17,160
Speaker 1: we do something like that? Why does she just show

876
00:52:17,239 --> 00:52:20,960
Speaker 1: up to a guest and then it's like nothing moment.

877
00:52:21,160 --> 00:52:24,839
Speaker 1: I'm also like tracking you like that. Yeah, she's it's

878
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:29,440
Speaker 1: a stalking thing, Like she shows up uninvited, unannounced. That

879
00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:31,840
Speaker 1: is not okay, It's only funny when Dan Levy does it.

880
00:52:32,760 --> 00:52:34,560
Speaker 1: That's another. I mean, as much as I love Dan

881
00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:37,120
Speaker 1: Levy and his character in this movie, that's like, why

882
00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:43,759
Speaker 1: are you stalking people? John for Cony. Um, yeah, no,

883
00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:47,600
Speaker 1: I I knew that I was looking into. Like this

884
00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:49,560
Speaker 1: interview is cleared of all was doing them? Like did

885
00:52:49,600 --> 00:52:52,760
Speaker 1: she acknowledge any of the all over the place reception

886
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:55,759
Speaker 1: of the movie. And she does say in interviews that

887
00:52:56,120 --> 00:53:01,040
Speaker 1: she was determined to have Harber and be together at

888
00:53:01,080 --> 00:53:04,799
Speaker 1: the end because, um, she says, quote, there are so

889
00:53:04,840 --> 00:53:07,439
Speaker 1: many lesbian movies that end in tragedy where these people

890
00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:09,439
Speaker 1: fall madly in love and they never see each other again.

891
00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:11,000
Speaker 1: We don't get a lot of happy endings, and I

892
00:53:11,040 --> 00:53:15,040
Speaker 1: wanted them to make it, which fair point, absolutely, But like,

893
00:53:16,040 --> 00:53:18,520
Speaker 1: then why did you write the characters this way? Like,

894
00:53:18,600 --> 00:53:22,719
Speaker 1: I don't know. I feel like there's a strong disconnect

895
00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:26,040
Speaker 1: between because I also read some of these interviews and

896
00:53:26,080 --> 00:53:28,560
Speaker 1: I feel like there's a really distinct disconnect between what

897
00:53:28,600 --> 00:53:31,319
Speaker 1: Clo Duval thought she was doing and what she actually did,

898
00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:34,600
Speaker 1: because like I read a quote where she was like,

899
00:53:34,640 --> 00:53:37,120
Speaker 1: this is a story about like forgiveness and about like

900
00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:39,719
Speaker 1: working through problems together in a relationship, and I was like,

901
00:53:39,719 --> 00:53:42,200
Speaker 1: but they do not work together. They there is not

902
00:53:42,320 --> 00:53:46,360
Speaker 1: one single moment ever where they work together to handle

903
00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:49,840
Speaker 1: this problem. And there's not one single moment where the

904
00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:55,200
Speaker 1: character Harper does anything to merit forgiveness, totally right, that

905
00:53:55,320 --> 00:53:58,200
Speaker 1: we don't see them work through anything. No, so the

906
00:53:58,239 --> 00:54:01,600
Speaker 1: actual message becomes like you should just forgive people who

907
00:54:01,600 --> 00:54:04,520
Speaker 1: treat you like garbage, right, And that's I actually think

908
00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:08,279
Speaker 1: that that's a dangerous message for like queer people especially,

909
00:54:09,440 --> 00:54:11,600
Speaker 1: And it's like I have all, like I I likely

910
00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:14,719
Speaker 1: of all, I like really respect her work. She's like,

911
00:54:15,040 --> 00:54:17,960
Speaker 1: you know, she's sure, she's an icon. She's great, but

912
00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:21,000
Speaker 1: it's an icon for sure. But yeah, I I totally

913
00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:24,160
Speaker 1: agree with you, Jess, Like it's just a it's a

914
00:54:24,200 --> 00:54:27,040
Speaker 1: weird way to kind of walk back some of the

915
00:54:27,120 --> 00:54:30,080
Speaker 1: decisions you made in your movie to be like, well,

916
00:54:30,120 --> 00:54:34,440
Speaker 1: you know, we're all we're all struggling. It's difficult. So

917
00:54:34,719 --> 00:54:37,600
Speaker 1: just if someone is emotionally abusive to you, consider where

918
00:54:37,600 --> 00:54:39,560
Speaker 1: they're coming from. And it's like that, what kind of

919
00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:43,759
Speaker 1: message is that? I know that's a weird message, And like,

920
00:54:43,840 --> 00:54:46,720
Speaker 1: to be totally clear, I also like I really respect

921
00:54:46,760 --> 00:54:49,799
Speaker 1: cleage of all and like have always, like you know,

922
00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:52,480
Speaker 1: looked to her for a long time as like a

923
00:54:52,560 --> 00:54:55,799
Speaker 1: lesbian icon. And so I just feel that's like what

924
00:54:55,880 --> 00:55:01,040
Speaker 1: I feel disappointed by totally. It's like she can' you like,

925
00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:03,920
Speaker 1: she can do better than there or I want to

926
00:55:03,960 --> 00:55:06,160
Speaker 1: believe that she can do better and will. I hope

927
00:55:06,200 --> 00:55:08,759
Speaker 1: she does, because it was like I hope that she

928
00:55:09,040 --> 00:55:13,200
Speaker 1: takes some of the constructive criticism around this movie to heart.

929
00:55:13,280 --> 00:55:15,960
Speaker 1: I think she will. I hope she will. You know,

930
00:55:16,560 --> 00:55:20,600
Speaker 1: her performance and but I'm a cheerleader. It meant a

931
00:55:20,600 --> 00:55:24,719
Speaker 1: lot there's just simply nothing. It meant a lot to us. Yeah,

932
00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:27,239
Speaker 1: there's I also read I I did not know this

933
00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:29,040
Speaker 1: movie existed, but I also read that there was a

934
00:55:29,080 --> 00:55:31,080
Speaker 1: movie with a similar premise that came out in two

935
00:55:31,120 --> 00:55:35,080
Speaker 1: thousand nine. There there have been a few movies that

936
00:55:35,120 --> 00:55:39,200
Speaker 1: are almost exactly like this. What are including one that

937
00:55:39,239 --> 00:55:42,360
Speaker 1: I think came out in or Steen like kind of

938
00:55:42,400 --> 00:55:44,799
Speaker 1: more recently. I feel like I heard about that and

939
00:55:44,840 --> 00:55:46,960
Speaker 1: I was like, why didn't that come out ten years ago?

940
00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:51,319
Speaker 1: It's about Thanksgiving, but it's the same thing. Somebody brings

941
00:55:51,320 --> 00:55:53,960
Speaker 1: her girlfriend home and her family doesn't know, right. I

942
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:56,640
Speaker 1: read about a movie called Make the Yule Tide Gay

943
00:55:56,680 --> 00:56:01,879
Speaker 1: from two thousand and nine, where like college student takes

944
00:56:01,880 --> 00:56:06,080
Speaker 1: a boyfriend home. They pretend to be roommates, but the

945
00:56:06,120 --> 00:56:09,400
Speaker 1: main character like is I guess the difference is that

946
00:56:09,480 --> 00:56:13,400
Speaker 1: the main character demonstrates a lot of guilt throughout the

947
00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:17,960
Speaker 1: movie and like is constantly communicating with his partner and

948
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:22,960
Speaker 1: like having just doubts and like that, which doesn't make

949
00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:26,799
Speaker 1: it right, but it like at least makes it like

950
00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:30,239
Speaker 1: easier to not hate a character that we're supposed to

951
00:56:30,280 --> 00:56:34,680
Speaker 1: love because Harpert just acts so selfishly at every single turn.

952
00:56:36,000 --> 00:56:38,120
Speaker 1: I don't understand why they kept having her hang out

953
00:56:38,160 --> 00:56:40,520
Speaker 1: with her ex boyfriend. I was like, this is like

954
00:56:40,560 --> 00:56:43,640
Speaker 1: the wrong It's not it's just a wrong thing to do.

955
00:56:44,440 --> 00:56:48,960
Speaker 1: I also was confused by that and if if she

956
00:56:49,120 --> 00:56:54,400
Speaker 1: was doing that to like appease her family or something

957
00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:57,759
Speaker 1: like not, not enough was done to establish like why

958
00:56:57,880 --> 00:57:01,919
Speaker 1: she was doing that, and it was confusing to me. Yeah,

959
00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:03,799
Speaker 1: I mean I feel like that could have been an

960
00:57:03,840 --> 00:57:08,400
Speaker 1: interesting opportunity of like, because it's implied that that character

961
00:57:08,760 --> 00:57:11,960
Speaker 1: is gay based on how he interacts with Dan Levy

962
00:57:12,040 --> 00:57:14,000
Speaker 1: later in the movie. So it's like that could have

963
00:57:14,040 --> 00:57:18,200
Speaker 1: been an interesting conversation, like, but she she shuts it down,

964
00:57:18,480 --> 00:57:21,040
Speaker 1: like she is so not receptive to it. He like

965
00:57:21,240 --> 00:57:25,000
Speaker 1: tries to talk to her outside of Fratty's or wherever

966
00:57:25,080 --> 00:57:27,960
Speaker 1: the place was, and kind of like gives her an

967
00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:31,760
Speaker 1: opening of like hey, you know, and but she's just

968
00:57:31,800 --> 00:57:34,960
Speaker 1: like Nope, I'm not having this conversation with anybody, And

969
00:57:35,120 --> 00:57:37,880
Speaker 1: it's like, well, then, why where are you here? Also,

970
00:57:37,880 --> 00:57:39,600
Speaker 1: I think we could get rid of the boyfriend and

971
00:57:39,600 --> 00:57:44,160
Speaker 1: then just include Riley Moore. Absolutely, yeah, Well you know

972
00:57:44,200 --> 00:57:48,240
Speaker 1: what would if if Abby had gone to Christmas with

973
00:57:48,280 --> 00:57:50,280
Speaker 1: her girlfriend's family and ended up hooking up with her

974
00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:54,880
Speaker 1: girlfriend's ax. That's a lesbian romantic comedy. That's just a

975
00:57:54,920 --> 00:57:57,720
Speaker 1: movie I desperately want to see. That would have been

976
00:57:57,800 --> 00:58:00,800
Speaker 1: so great there, that would have been so far they

977
00:58:00,840 --> 00:58:03,120
Speaker 1: should have it also would have raised this days if

978
00:58:03,160 --> 00:58:06,560
Speaker 1: like Abby and Riley kissed. I like, you know, I

979
00:58:06,560 --> 00:58:11,960
Speaker 1: don't condone cheating, but in this situation, it's so like

980
00:58:12,080 --> 00:58:16,720
Speaker 1: Abby and Riley. Legally Cannon should kiss because Abby has

981
00:58:16,800 --> 00:58:20,360
Speaker 1: just been like flogged by this situation and her partner

982
00:58:20,600 --> 00:58:23,040
Speaker 1: for days on end, there's no end in sight. Going

983
00:58:23,080 --> 00:58:25,680
Speaker 1: home for five days is a bad idea to begin with.

984
00:58:25,840 --> 00:58:27,800
Speaker 1: That was like when I was the first time I

985
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:30,440
Speaker 1: watched the movie, I'm like, we we leave after three days.

986
00:58:30,520 --> 00:58:32,880
Speaker 1: That's three days is the maximum time you want to

987
00:58:32,920 --> 00:58:36,080
Speaker 1: spend with your family. But she's allowed to kiss Riley.

988
00:58:36,280 --> 00:58:39,439
Speaker 1: I can't believe. I cannot believe that they don't kiss

989
00:58:39,440 --> 00:58:43,840
Speaker 1: at the bar by movie law. It should have happened absolutely,

990
00:58:45,000 --> 00:58:48,160
Speaker 1: chemistry law. It should have like it should have just

991
00:58:48,200 --> 00:58:51,760
Speaker 1: happened organically. Yeah, um, I did appreciate. I like the

992
00:58:51,800 --> 00:58:56,440
Speaker 1: look on Harper's face when she sees what happened. Jamie

993
00:58:56,480 --> 00:59:00,480
Speaker 1: seems to have accidentally dropped from the him close, So

994
00:59:00,560 --> 00:59:03,840
Speaker 1: just we'll just keep recording and then um, yeah, there

995
00:59:03,840 --> 00:59:08,440
Speaker 1: she is. Okay, Oh my god. I just I was

996
00:59:08,520 --> 00:59:12,040
Speaker 1: just got so intense about wanting Aubrey Plast and Christian

997
00:59:12,040 --> 00:59:13,960
Speaker 1: Stewart to kiss that I started like fidgeting with a

998
00:59:13,960 --> 00:59:19,040
Speaker 1: button and I accidentally hung up. That's on me. Do

999
00:59:19,080 --> 00:59:21,760
Speaker 1: you remember what you were saying? I was just saying

1000
00:59:21,800 --> 00:59:25,040
Speaker 1: something like horny and then got all worked up and

1001
00:59:25,120 --> 00:59:30,560
Speaker 1: hung up. Isn't everybody with the button thinking about Aubrey?

1002
00:59:30,560 --> 00:59:34,760
Speaker 1: Plus it's true. I yeah, she she's so. I liked

1003
00:59:34,920 --> 00:59:38,160
Speaker 1: she when she was doing press for this movie, it

1004
00:59:38,240 --> 00:59:40,360
Speaker 1: was like it did make me laugh because she was

1005
00:59:40,440 --> 00:59:43,400
Speaker 1: just like, my goal in my performance was to make

1006
00:59:43,600 --> 00:59:46,240
Speaker 1: everyone be upset that Christian Steward doesn't end up with

1007
00:59:46,240 --> 00:59:49,320
Speaker 1: my character, like, well, you were successful. I was shocked

1008
00:59:49,360 --> 00:59:52,680
Speaker 1: that she was allowed to say that. Yeah, that surprised

1009
00:59:52,680 --> 00:59:54,640
Speaker 1: to me. I guess she can just kind of do

1010
00:59:54,720 --> 00:59:57,080
Speaker 1: what she wants. I don't know, or maybe she doesn't care.

1011
00:59:57,120 --> 00:59:59,880
Speaker 1: I have no idea. She was grumpy cat who knows

1012
01:00:02,200 --> 01:00:03,640
Speaker 1: it is not her first I was like, wow, this

1013
01:00:03,720 --> 01:00:05,680
Speaker 1: is not her first Christmas. Ever. She was in the

1014
01:00:05,680 --> 01:00:10,080
Speaker 1: Grumpy g Christmas movie. Um to call back to those

1015
01:00:10,240 --> 01:00:14,040
Speaker 1: couple of other similar similar like Christmas movies or like

1016
01:00:14,080 --> 01:00:17,919
Speaker 1: holiday movies with a similar premise about queer characters having

1017
01:00:17,960 --> 01:00:21,640
Speaker 1: to repress and like hiding their identity for for the

1018
01:00:21,720 --> 01:00:26,240
Speaker 1: comfort of straight families. Yeah right, Yeah, that speaks to

1019
01:00:26,240 --> 01:00:27,880
Speaker 1: the fact that like this is like kind of the

1020
01:00:27,960 --> 01:00:32,840
Speaker 1: first queer center Chris like Festival Christmas see movie that

1021
01:00:32,880 --> 01:00:36,080
Speaker 1: was backed by a major studio and you know, it's

1022
01:00:36,080 --> 01:00:39,000
Speaker 1: got bank a, bull Stars. It was supposed to have

1023
01:00:39,000 --> 01:00:42,400
Speaker 1: a theatrical release but then pandemic, so it got a

1024
01:00:42,480 --> 01:00:46,200
Speaker 1: release on Hulu. But it makes look like viewing records

1025
01:00:46,200 --> 01:00:49,880
Speaker 1: on Hulu, which is which is like cool enough people

1026
01:00:49,960 --> 01:00:52,480
Speaker 1: wanted to see a really good lesbian Christmas movie and

1027
01:00:52,480 --> 01:00:54,800
Speaker 1: then they just they kind of just saw happiest season.

1028
01:00:55,160 --> 01:00:57,760
Speaker 1: But then that's the thing, Like it's a lot more

1029
01:00:57,760 --> 01:01:02,080
Speaker 1: accessible than previous similar or movies have been. But that

1030
01:01:02,160 --> 01:01:04,720
Speaker 1: makes it all the more disappointing that it like doesn't

1031
01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:08,920
Speaker 1: deliver and that has like some pretty toxic messages to

1032
01:01:09,040 --> 01:01:11,480
Speaker 1: take away from it because it has all these more

1033
01:01:11,720 --> 01:01:14,680
Speaker 1: has way more eyes on it than other similar movies.

1034
01:01:14,720 --> 01:01:17,640
Speaker 1: But what just you were kind of alluding to this

1035
01:01:17,760 --> 01:01:20,600
Speaker 1: earlier is like it's it does like by the end

1036
01:01:20,600 --> 01:01:22,760
Speaker 1: of this movie, you're like, oh, this movie is for

1037
01:01:23,360 --> 01:01:28,600
Speaker 1: like straight parents, Like it's not for queer people, like

1038
01:01:29,120 --> 01:01:34,080
Speaker 1: it's for the flag crowd. Yeah, yeah, and it's And

1039
01:01:34,120 --> 01:01:37,320
Speaker 1: so I find it frustrating because we've had this conversation

1040
01:01:37,360 --> 01:01:41,280
Speaker 1: about like multiple movies on the show before of like

1041
01:01:41,720 --> 01:01:44,600
Speaker 1: a movie that is like kind of marketed as this

1042
01:01:44,800 --> 01:01:48,840
Speaker 1: huge win for representation, but then it's about conservative white

1043
01:01:48,880 --> 01:01:51,800
Speaker 1: people and it's kind of doing the bare minimum in

1044
01:01:51,840 --> 01:01:55,720
Speaker 1: a lot of ways. To to like start, it almost

1045
01:01:55,720 --> 01:01:58,320
Speaker 1: feels like it's testing the waters in a weird way.

1046
01:01:58,560 --> 01:02:01,400
Speaker 1: I don't know, I like who I wish that Clear

1047
01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:05,480
Speaker 1: Daval was like if I would honestly respected a lot

1048
01:02:05,520 --> 01:02:07,840
Speaker 1: more if Clear Dval was like, Here's who I'm making

1049
01:02:07,880 --> 01:02:11,240
Speaker 1: this movie for, and was just like clear about that

1050
01:02:11,360 --> 01:02:14,760
Speaker 1: because it's it's so jarring at so many points, and

1051
01:02:14,760 --> 01:02:17,040
Speaker 1: then by the end, when you land on that Mary Stein,

1052
01:02:17,200 --> 01:02:19,560
Speaker 1: Virgin Victor garber Stein, you're like, oh, so this is

1053
01:02:19,600 --> 01:02:23,200
Speaker 1: who the movie is for. To me, this is why

1054
01:02:23,560 --> 01:02:28,240
Speaker 1: like quote unquote, representation is sort of like a not

1055
01:02:28,600 --> 01:02:32,760
Speaker 1: good enough for not full enough concept because like I

1056
01:02:32,840 --> 01:02:34,800
Speaker 1: feel like this movie is a great example about that

1057
01:02:34,840 --> 01:02:37,640
Speaker 1: because I'm like, okay, sure it is like about lesbians,

1058
01:02:37,720 --> 01:02:40,960
Speaker 1: Like there are lesbian characters, it was made by lesbians.

1059
01:02:41,000 --> 01:02:43,400
Speaker 1: Clear Dull as a lesbian. She wrote it, she directed it,

1060
01:02:43,920 --> 01:02:48,040
Speaker 1: but the like actual content of the movie is not

1061
01:02:48,960 --> 01:02:53,880
Speaker 1: really good for like a lesbian audience or a queer audience.

1062
01:02:54,720 --> 01:02:58,440
Speaker 1: Like you have to serve your audience, like it's right, right,

1063
01:02:58,520 --> 01:03:02,400
Speaker 1: you can't just like put people in front of the screen, right,

1064
01:03:02,880 --> 01:03:05,000
Speaker 1: you can't, and you can't just like you can't just

1065
01:03:05,040 --> 01:03:08,720
Speaker 1: stop it identity, like there has to be more there, right,

1066
01:03:09,240 --> 01:03:12,600
Speaker 1: Totally totally agree, And that's something we talk about in

1067
01:03:12,680 --> 01:03:17,240
Speaker 1: terms of like representation in media is often a slow

1068
01:03:17,800 --> 01:03:22,040
Speaker 1: and tumultuous process where like the steps are generally like

1069
01:03:22,080 --> 01:03:25,600
Speaker 1: there's no representation, and then after some amount of years

1070
01:03:25,640 --> 01:03:28,240
Speaker 1: it's like, Okay, now there's some representation, but it's usually

1071
01:03:28,640 --> 01:03:31,919
Speaker 1: bad and offensive and harmful. Uh, and then you move

1072
01:03:32,000 --> 01:03:35,600
Speaker 1: on to Okay, now there's like more positive representation, but

1073
01:03:36,200 --> 01:03:40,040
Speaker 1: it's still it feels outdated still, or it feels like

1074
01:03:40,040 --> 01:03:42,200
Speaker 1: there's a long way to go. It hasn't quite caught

1075
01:03:42,240 --> 01:03:46,680
Speaker 1: up with like contemporary attitudes. So this feels like that

1076
01:03:46,720 --> 01:03:49,560
Speaker 1: where it's like, Okay, there's representation, it's a story made

1077
01:03:49,560 --> 01:03:53,160
Speaker 1: by queer people about queer people, but not but there's

1078
01:03:53,200 --> 01:03:57,480
Speaker 1: not four queer people. It's frustrating. Yeah, and this, this

1079
01:03:57,600 --> 01:04:01,160
Speaker 1: is like this expands far beyond entertain where it's just

1080
01:04:01,280 --> 01:04:04,720
Speaker 1: it's kind of like frustrating and insulting to have. It's

1081
01:04:04,760 --> 01:04:06,919
Speaker 1: like something put in front of you and be like, look,

1082
01:04:07,160 --> 01:04:09,480
Speaker 1: aren't you you should be happy? You should be happy

1083
01:04:09,520 --> 01:04:13,480
Speaker 1: that I think this when it's like right, no, like no,

1084
01:04:13,520 --> 01:04:17,640
Speaker 1: you don't just need to take something insufficient, because like, yeah,

1085
01:04:17,720 --> 01:04:20,360
Speaker 1: I I really resent that whole like, well, aren't you

1086
01:04:20,360 --> 01:04:23,080
Speaker 1: happy that this exists? You're like I guess, like I'm

1087
01:04:23,080 --> 01:04:26,800
Speaker 1: not unhappy, but it's not it's not what we were promised.

1088
01:04:26,800 --> 01:04:29,480
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's not what we were promised. And

1089
01:04:29,520 --> 01:04:32,200
Speaker 1: I'm not even saying like it shouldn't exist, but I

1090
01:04:32,240 --> 01:04:34,919
Speaker 1: am saying like it sucks that this is like the thing,

1091
01:04:36,480 --> 01:04:39,560
Speaker 1: it's the thing that we're getting and it's not it

1092
01:04:39,760 --> 01:04:42,680
Speaker 1: like it hurts me like I spent I don't know,

1093
01:04:42,880 --> 01:04:45,320
Speaker 1: I don't know. Sometimes I feel like I'm being melodramatic,

1094
01:04:45,360 --> 01:04:47,160
Speaker 1: but I am like each time I watched this movie

1095
01:04:47,160 --> 01:04:50,240
Speaker 1: because I watched it twice. Um, I've spent the whole

1096
01:04:50,360 --> 01:04:53,960
Speaker 1: next day like kind of at a high level of

1097
01:04:54,000 --> 01:04:58,760
Speaker 1: like anger and anxiety and just like being like upset

1098
01:04:58,960 --> 01:05:01,760
Speaker 1: because this movie reminds me of a lot of bad

1099
01:05:01,800 --> 01:05:04,760
Speaker 1: experiences I've had, and now suddenly I'm thinking about these

1100
01:05:04,760 --> 01:05:07,200
Speaker 1: experiences that maybe don't bother me at all in my

1101
01:05:07,280 --> 01:05:10,240
Speaker 1: normal life, and so I'm like, that's just not like

1102
01:05:10,360 --> 01:05:12,560
Speaker 1: I feel like that's not the ideal outcome for a

1103
01:05:12,640 --> 01:05:20,160
Speaker 1: queer audience. Yeah, of course it's, especially because so many

1104
01:05:20,240 --> 01:05:25,880
Speaker 1: queer movies prior to this have focused on like tragedy,

1105
01:05:26,600 --> 01:05:29,360
Speaker 1: and there's been kind of an erasure of like queer

1106
01:05:29,440 --> 01:05:33,040
Speaker 1: joy narratives, and if on the surface, it feels like

1107
01:05:33,080 --> 01:05:35,960
Speaker 1: this would be a queer joy narrative. You know, it's

1108
01:05:35,960 --> 01:05:39,919
Speaker 1: it's happiest season, it's Christmas time, it's FESTI wou but

1109
01:05:40,120 --> 01:05:43,400
Speaker 1: like we've been saying, there are so many moments and

1110
01:05:43,680 --> 01:05:46,840
Speaker 1: just like beats and themes in the movie that are

1111
01:05:46,920 --> 01:05:53,840
Speaker 1: like traumatic and triggering and like closer to horror than comedy,

1112
01:05:53,920 --> 01:05:58,480
Speaker 1: and like I would almost classify this as like a tragedy,

1113
01:05:58,960 --> 01:06:01,280
Speaker 1: Like it's kind of dick what, especially the way it

1114
01:06:01,400 --> 01:06:05,040
Speaker 1: ends and the fact that Hobby ends up with Harper,

1115
01:06:05,120 --> 01:06:09,520
Speaker 1: who is again really not a good partner or a

1116
01:06:09,560 --> 01:06:13,560
Speaker 1: good person. There's essentially no joy in the movie. There's

1117
01:06:13,640 --> 01:06:18,000
Speaker 1: essentially no Christmas joy whatsoever, like throughout the whole movie

1118
01:06:18,160 --> 01:06:22,919
Speaker 1: except for like the opening credit sequence and the ending

1119
01:06:22,960 --> 01:06:27,520
Speaker 1: credit sequence. Yeah, and also the ending he wins mayor

1120
01:06:27,560 --> 01:06:32,760
Speaker 1: here just like he wins You hate that. I really

1121
01:06:32,800 --> 01:06:36,360
Speaker 1: hate it really bothers me that. Yeah, there's I mean

1122
01:06:36,680 --> 01:06:39,760
Speaker 1: the fact that it concludes with the protagonist who we

1123
01:06:39,800 --> 01:06:44,520
Speaker 1: are rooting for, settling for someone who does not treat

1124
01:06:44,600 --> 01:06:48,360
Speaker 1: her right that we see on screen at least, and

1125
01:06:48,480 --> 01:06:52,800
Speaker 1: does not make any meaningful amends with the people in

1126
01:06:52,800 --> 01:06:57,040
Speaker 1: her life or works on herself even like one percent,

1127
01:06:57,320 --> 01:07:04,840
Speaker 1: Like what kind of what kind of messages that? That sucks? Right? Like,

1128
01:07:04,920 --> 01:07:07,200
Speaker 1: it's not a happy ending. Just because you tacked it

1129
01:07:07,240 --> 01:07:11,240
Speaker 1: on there doesn't make it like a happy ending for

1130
01:07:11,480 --> 01:07:15,040
Speaker 1: queer people. Yeah, yeah, I want to read a quote

1131
01:07:15,080 --> 01:07:22,080
Speaker 1: that I pulled from a review in l UM from MICHAELA. Phillips,

1132
01:07:22,160 --> 01:07:27,440
Speaker 1: who is a queer black writer. UM says, quote, I

1133
01:07:27,520 --> 01:07:30,040
Speaker 1: needed the film to earn its happy ending and hold

1134
01:07:30,080 --> 01:07:33,040
Speaker 1: Harper accountable to unpack the trauma of coming out and

1135
01:07:33,080 --> 01:07:36,520
Speaker 1: how queer people harm themselves, each other, and those closest

1136
01:07:36,520 --> 01:07:39,520
Speaker 1: to them under societal pressure. I see myself in Harper,

1137
01:07:39,640 --> 01:07:42,520
Speaker 1: scared to come out. I understand how time is wasted

1138
01:07:42,600 --> 01:07:46,440
Speaker 1: unlearning and struggling with heteronormativity, but that's not an excuse

1139
01:07:46,520 --> 01:07:50,160
Speaker 1: to inflict emotional pain on others in the process. Being

1140
01:07:50,200 --> 01:07:53,919
Speaker 1: afraid of confronting one's own personal trauma, especially a rich,

1141
01:07:54,040 --> 01:07:58,120
Speaker 1: privileged white family, doesn't excuse actions that hurt people. I

1142
01:07:58,120 --> 01:08:01,040
Speaker 1: don't want queer people accepting a partner who gaslights them

1143
01:08:01,040 --> 01:08:04,000
Speaker 1: because they're scared. I want queer mainstream films that delve

1144
01:08:04,040 --> 01:08:06,640
Speaker 1: into coming out and reckon with all the messiness of

1145
01:08:06,680 --> 01:08:10,600
Speaker 1: the situation. I want films that acknowledge the lived experiences

1146
01:08:10,680 --> 01:08:13,640
Speaker 1: of black queer people. I want queer mainstream films that

1147
01:08:13,680 --> 01:08:17,720
Speaker 1: go beyond coming out to showcase the complexity of their characters.

1148
01:08:18,160 --> 01:08:23,759
Speaker 1: End quote. I agree, Yeah, I was like, she now that, Yeah,

1149
01:08:23,840 --> 01:08:27,640
Speaker 1: that like And I don't want to invalidate anyone's feelings

1150
01:08:27,760 --> 01:08:30,880
Speaker 1: or opinions. Anyone who enjoys this movie finds value in

1151
01:08:30,920 --> 01:08:33,200
Speaker 1: this movie, because I think there is a lot of

1152
01:08:33,240 --> 01:08:36,160
Speaker 1: value in this movie. There is representation that we haven't

1153
01:08:36,200 --> 01:08:39,719
Speaker 1: seen before in a mainstream Christmas movie. They're funny parts.

1154
01:08:39,960 --> 01:08:43,320
Speaker 1: So I was like, I was still crying throughout the

1155
01:08:43,439 --> 01:08:45,719
Speaker 1: Like I cried. I cried when the when the movie

1156
01:08:45,760 --> 01:08:48,920
Speaker 1: told me to cry. I was playing ball with the movie.

1157
01:08:48,960 --> 01:08:51,400
Speaker 1: Like that scene at the end with Dan Levy and

1158
01:08:51,479 --> 01:08:55,839
Speaker 1: Christen Stewart, we like, you can't you can't help weeping

1159
01:08:56,000 --> 01:09:00,200
Speaker 1: during that scene. Like it's so that's another scene where

1160
01:09:00,200 --> 01:09:05,360
Speaker 1: you're like, it's like, oh, we're so close to something, right,

1161
01:09:05,760 --> 01:09:08,040
Speaker 1: Like when the last time I watched it, I was

1162
01:09:08,080 --> 01:09:10,720
Speaker 1: watching it was my my friend Hayn Park, and she

1163
01:09:10,880 --> 01:09:13,000
Speaker 1: was like, at the end of this monologue, you should

1164
01:09:13,040 --> 01:09:18,439
Speaker 1: be like, and this relationship has seen its course and

1165
01:09:19,040 --> 01:09:21,519
Speaker 1: come with me. Let's get a drink at the track

1166
01:09:21,560 --> 01:09:26,160
Speaker 1: bar exactly because he's right. He's literally right. Everything he

1167
01:09:26,160 --> 01:09:29,519
Speaker 1: says is literally correct. Yeah. Yeah, So that yeah, that's

1168
01:09:29,600 --> 01:09:32,800
Speaker 1: and and for listeners, that's the scene where towards the

1169
01:09:32,920 --> 01:09:35,080
Speaker 1: end there at there's like so many scenes to take

1170
01:09:35,120 --> 01:09:37,000
Speaker 1: place at the same gas station at the very end

1171
01:09:37,000 --> 01:09:40,080
Speaker 1: of the movie, but they're outside at the gas station

1172
01:09:41,120 --> 01:09:47,040
Speaker 1: and John is basically reminding Abbey that Harper is like

1173
01:09:47,200 --> 01:09:50,519
Speaker 1: in a really difficult position even though it is actively

1174
01:09:50,600 --> 01:09:53,800
Speaker 1: hurting Abby. And then he shares his coming out story

1175
01:09:53,840 --> 01:09:57,320
Speaker 1: and that it was really traumatic and that he basically

1176
01:09:57,400 --> 01:10:01,280
Speaker 1: lost a relationship with his father and rejected by his family,

1177
01:10:01,840 --> 01:10:05,559
Speaker 1: and just because Abby was accepted by her parents before

1178
01:10:05,600 --> 01:10:09,559
Speaker 1: the chandelier fell, that tragic night, Um, you know, it

1179
01:10:09,600 --> 01:10:12,000
Speaker 1: was a huge night for her. It was the ups

1180
01:10:12,040 --> 01:10:15,679
Speaker 1: and downs. Oh my god, can you imagine She told

1181
01:10:15,720 --> 01:10:18,639
Speaker 1: them she was a lesbian at six pm and they

1182
01:10:18,640 --> 01:10:21,200
Speaker 1: were like, we love you so much. And then at

1183
01:10:21,600 --> 01:10:27,600
Speaker 1: thirty they shouldn't gone to the opera that night, but

1184
01:10:27,640 --> 01:10:30,720
Speaker 1: they wanted to support their clining gamel On students. But

1185
01:10:30,760 --> 01:10:35,160
Speaker 1: I liked where he was going with that. But then yeah,

1186
01:10:35,200 --> 01:10:38,000
Speaker 1: I just kind of landed like, so I don't care

1187
01:10:38,120 --> 01:10:40,720
Speaker 1: if you're emotionally abused by your partner, even though he

1188
01:10:40,760 --> 01:10:43,600
Speaker 1: spent the whole movie saying the opposite of that. So

1189
01:10:43,760 --> 01:10:48,360
Speaker 1: it's strange. Yeah, I I do love his character. I

1190
01:10:48,600 --> 01:10:50,800
Speaker 1: I do love John. And again, like a lot of

1191
01:10:50,840 --> 01:10:54,320
Speaker 1: what he says makes you think that, like, Okay, this

1192
01:10:54,360 --> 01:10:57,200
Speaker 1: movie is trying to have a progressive agenda. He's calling

1193
01:10:57,200 --> 01:11:01,519
Speaker 1: out heteronormative standards, different things like that. But like the

1194
01:11:01,520 --> 01:11:05,000
Speaker 1: progressive agenda that this movie is trying to put forward,

1195
01:11:05,200 --> 01:11:08,439
Speaker 1: is like it doesn't go as far as it thinks

1196
01:11:08,479 --> 01:11:11,400
Speaker 1: it's going. It's weird. It's weird. Can we talk about

1197
01:11:11,479 --> 01:11:18,439
Speaker 1: Jane really quick? Yes? Jane. I really like Mary Holland,

1198
01:11:18,760 --> 01:11:22,360
Speaker 1: I like love her as a performer, this character did not.

1199
01:11:22,479 --> 01:11:26,880
Speaker 1: I love Jane, but the way everyone treats Jane in

1200
01:11:26,920 --> 01:11:30,000
Speaker 1: the movie super sucks. I mean it's like she's like

1201
01:11:30,240 --> 01:11:35,599
Speaker 1: Jane is a like not a neurotypical character, and there's

1202
01:11:35,680 --> 01:11:38,640
Speaker 1: just jokes about it, and there's just like all of

1203
01:11:38,680 --> 01:11:41,360
Speaker 1: these references to how she has been treated like shipped

1204
01:11:41,360 --> 01:11:44,759
Speaker 1: by her family for not being neurotypical for her entire life,

1205
01:11:45,439 --> 01:11:50,360
Speaker 1: and that's the joke. It's as good. I like her

1206
01:11:50,600 --> 01:11:54,959
Speaker 1: author's journey, but the way she's treated by her family sucks,

1207
01:11:55,080 --> 01:11:57,960
Speaker 1: and like no one ever really, no one apologizes to her.

1208
01:11:58,640 --> 01:12:01,679
Speaker 1: I don't know what what what? Well the jokes all

1209
01:12:01,960 --> 01:12:05,360
Speaker 1: to me, they all feel very like mid two thousand

1210
01:12:05,520 --> 01:12:08,280
Speaker 1: sort of level, like where we still think it's okay

1211
01:12:08,360 --> 01:12:10,759
Speaker 1: to joke about that stuff. We still think the closet

1212
01:12:10,800 --> 01:12:14,519
Speaker 1: joke is really funny, like we are still talking about

1213
01:12:14,560 --> 01:12:16,680
Speaker 1: things and that it's still kind of okay to be

1214
01:12:16,800 --> 01:12:20,639
Speaker 1: like casually racist, casually ablest, and like that's the funny joke,

1215
01:12:21,360 --> 01:12:24,080
Speaker 1: and that really takes me out of it. I'm like,

1216
01:12:24,160 --> 01:12:28,120
Speaker 1: this is like the queer movie of like, is this

1217
01:12:28,240 --> 01:12:30,960
Speaker 1: joke with this sort of mid two thousand sensibility in

1218
01:12:31,000 --> 01:12:35,760
Speaker 1: an offensive way? It's I And then but again, do

1219
01:12:36,040 --> 01:12:39,320
Speaker 1: I tear up when she is doing the book reading

1220
01:12:39,320 --> 01:12:41,519
Speaker 1: at the end of the movie. That was the party

1221
01:12:42,120 --> 01:12:45,839
Speaker 1: the hardest. I found them that to be the most compelling.

1222
01:12:45,880 --> 01:12:48,120
Speaker 1: When she's just like and then she's like reading from

1223
01:12:48,120 --> 01:12:51,280
Speaker 1: her fantasy novel and she's like then they all look

1224
01:12:51,320 --> 01:12:54,040
Speaker 1: at each other, and it was Glenn who stepped forward first,

1225
01:12:54,080 --> 01:13:02,280
Speaker 1: and I was like, anyway, yeah, I really this family

1226
01:13:02,520 --> 01:13:09,599
Speaker 1: really treats everyone poorly, and uh, Jane gets the brunt

1227
01:13:09,600 --> 01:13:11,840
Speaker 1: of it a lot of the time. But the ways

1228
01:13:11,880 --> 01:13:17,040
Speaker 1: that it's like the parents Tipper and Ted treat each

1229
01:13:17,080 --> 01:13:21,120
Speaker 1: of their daughters like ship in a unique way, and

1230
01:13:21,280 --> 01:13:24,479
Speaker 1: the way that they treat Jane is just ablest, Like

1231
01:13:24,600 --> 01:13:27,799
Speaker 1: that's that's how they show that they don't respect that daughter.

1232
01:13:28,240 --> 01:13:30,880
Speaker 1: And then they it's just so all over the place.

1233
01:13:30,920 --> 01:13:33,760
Speaker 1: He's like, and then the sloan I I don't even

1234
01:13:33,760 --> 01:13:37,320
Speaker 1: want to talk about Sloan, what what is her story?

1235
01:13:37,360 --> 01:13:40,400
Speaker 1: They're like, oh, we're mad at her because she has

1236
01:13:40,439 --> 01:13:46,479
Speaker 1: a very successful business, like she didn't pursue law and

1237
01:13:46,600 --> 01:13:48,960
Speaker 1: she stopped to have a family, but now she like

1238
01:13:49,040 --> 01:13:51,360
Speaker 1: she she's like a girl boss. Like what am I

1239
01:13:51,439 --> 01:13:54,720
Speaker 1: rooting for here? Yeah? I feel like they added a

1240
01:13:54,720 --> 01:13:58,639
Speaker 1: bunch of like B and C and D storylines that

1241
01:13:58,800 --> 01:14:02,120
Speaker 1: ended up just die looting the main drama, which is

1242
01:14:02,160 --> 01:14:04,400
Speaker 1: Harper and Abbey, and then it sort of was like

1243
01:14:04,400 --> 01:14:06,719
Speaker 1: like literally over and over and over again. The last

1244
01:14:06,760 --> 01:14:09,800
Speaker 1: third of the movie is just people having like confessions,

1245
01:14:11,439 --> 01:14:13,479
Speaker 1: like all in a row, and it's like why are

1246
01:14:13,520 --> 01:14:17,599
Speaker 1: we having confession after confession after confession even very often

1247
01:14:17,720 --> 01:14:22,040
Speaker 1: following up like Harper's finally coming out moment, and then

1248
01:14:22,080 --> 01:14:25,480
Speaker 1: the second after that someone else is like an I

1249
01:14:25,479 --> 01:14:28,160
Speaker 1: I was like, why we're not talking about you? Like

1250
01:14:28,240 --> 01:14:30,519
Speaker 1: the movie is not about you. When Sloan makes that

1251
01:14:30,600 --> 01:14:34,240
Speaker 1: about her, You're just like, who even are you? Like

1252
01:14:34,520 --> 01:14:39,000
Speaker 1: get out of this movie. Yes, Sloan interrupts Harper's coming

1253
01:14:39,000 --> 01:14:41,720
Speaker 1: out by being like, well, I'm getting divorced, and it's

1254
01:14:41,760 --> 01:14:45,439
Speaker 1: like read the room, like we leave them. But on

1255
01:14:45,880 --> 01:14:48,280
Speaker 1: the writing side, I was like, why did you do this?

1256
01:14:48,400 --> 01:14:51,879
Speaker 1: Why did you dilude your own movie is big moments,

1257
01:14:52,479 --> 01:14:55,559
Speaker 1: with these little moments that nobody gives a shit about, right,

1258
01:14:55,920 --> 01:14:58,200
Speaker 1: I do wonder, like, what the what the motivate? I'm

1259
01:14:58,200 --> 01:15:01,440
Speaker 1: sure that there is a reason, but I just aunt, um.

1260
01:15:01,760 --> 01:15:04,639
Speaker 1: I think it's probably something like in the end, we

1261
01:15:04,760 --> 01:15:08,920
Speaker 1: all have secrets, we're all hiding something, and that's how

1262
01:15:08,960 --> 01:15:11,360
Speaker 1: we can relate. Like that was what I got out

1263
01:15:11,360 --> 01:15:13,320
Speaker 1: of that. Yeah, And I was like, Okay, but I

1264
01:15:13,320 --> 01:15:15,599
Speaker 1: don't give a shit about those secrets. They're not good secrets.

1265
01:15:15,600 --> 01:15:17,840
Speaker 1: I don't care. I'm like, I don't care about her

1266
01:15:17,880 --> 01:15:22,799
Speaker 1: goop business related secrets. It's just not the same problem.

1267
01:15:23,240 --> 01:15:28,559
Speaker 1: I don't know. I the last thing I had was

1268
01:15:29,479 --> 01:15:31,400
Speaker 1: this is I was only thinking about this because I

1269
01:15:31,520 --> 01:15:34,000
Speaker 1: this like story popped up in my feet in the

1270
01:15:34,080 --> 01:15:38,640
Speaker 1: last couple of days about John. So obviously there's a

1271
01:15:38,800 --> 01:15:42,919
Speaker 1: lot of queer characters in this movie, but John still

1272
01:15:43,200 --> 01:15:47,760
Speaker 1: for me fell into like a gay best friend trope totally,

1273
01:15:48,120 --> 01:15:50,880
Speaker 1: which I was like, that's just another weird thing to

1274
01:15:50,880 --> 01:15:53,599
Speaker 1: be happening in this movie. All basically everything he does

1275
01:15:54,320 --> 01:15:58,680
Speaker 1: is revolving around Kristin Stewart's life, Like he just I mean,

1276
01:15:58,720 --> 01:16:01,160
Speaker 1: we know that he has a job, we know what

1277
01:16:01,240 --> 01:16:03,400
Speaker 1: his job is. It becomes relevant at the very very

1278
01:16:03,479 --> 01:16:07,240
Speaker 1: very end of the movie. But like he's I feel

1279
01:16:07,240 --> 01:16:10,160
Speaker 1: like it's another like weird mid two thousand trope where

1280
01:16:10,200 --> 01:16:13,000
Speaker 1: he is just but instead of being at the beck

1281
01:16:13,040 --> 01:16:16,040
Speaker 1: and call of some straight girl, he's at the beck

1282
01:16:16,080 --> 01:16:19,200
Speaker 1: and call of Christian Stewart about her relationship. And it's

1283
01:16:19,240 --> 01:16:23,640
Speaker 1: just the reason I brought it up was Andrew Rynolds

1284
01:16:24,080 --> 01:16:26,519
Speaker 1: was in that movie prom which I haven't watched yet,

1285
01:16:26,560 --> 01:16:29,519
Speaker 1: but he was doing an interview for that movie and

1286
01:16:29,600 --> 01:16:34,120
Speaker 1: basically brought up the Bechtel test and he said, you

1287
01:16:34,160 --> 01:16:35,920
Speaker 1: know what the Bechtel test is. I apply that to

1288
01:16:35,960 --> 01:16:38,439
Speaker 1: a lot of gay characters as I read scripts because

1289
01:16:38,439 --> 01:16:40,040
Speaker 1: I think it's a good way to figure out if

1290
01:16:40,040 --> 01:16:41,920
Speaker 1: they're just supposed to be a punch line or if

1291
01:16:41,920 --> 01:16:44,559
Speaker 1: they're human. Does he have a life? You can only

1292
01:16:44,560 --> 01:16:46,760
Speaker 1: do so much as an actor sometimes to flush things out,

1293
01:16:46,760 --> 01:16:50,240
Speaker 1: and it really has to be in the writing, which

1294
01:16:50,439 --> 01:16:53,240
Speaker 1: I agree with. And it's like I don't know, It's

1295
01:16:53,240 --> 01:16:57,840
Speaker 1: like you have Dan leave, like why wouldn't you? And

1296
01:16:58,439 --> 01:17:01,760
Speaker 1: he has no family, he has no boyfriend, he has

1297
01:17:01,880 --> 01:17:03,640
Speaker 1: no he has a point of view about everything that

1298
01:17:03,640 --> 01:17:06,160
Speaker 1: happens in Harper's life, but beyond that, he doesn't totally

1299
01:17:06,160 --> 01:17:09,240
Speaker 1: have a point of view. Yeah. Also, he makes a

1300
01:17:09,400 --> 01:17:14,360
Speaker 1: very confusing just like narrative choice where Abby calls him

1301
01:17:14,439 --> 01:17:17,200
Speaker 1: or they're on the phone and she's like everything is

1302
01:17:17,200 --> 01:17:20,200
Speaker 1: in shambles, like this is a disaster. I can't leave

1303
01:17:20,400 --> 01:17:25,320
Speaker 1: because the uber costs a thousand dollars And then John's like, sorry,

1304
01:17:25,439 --> 01:17:28,280
Speaker 1: gotta go and he just kind of hangs up on her,

1305
01:17:28,640 --> 01:17:30,840
Speaker 1: and then he shows up a few hours later. Why

1306
01:17:30,840 --> 01:17:34,400
Speaker 1: wouldn't he say, like, I'm coming to get you. Stay there.

1307
01:17:34,439 --> 01:17:38,200
Speaker 1: It feels so much better if right, Because like that

1308
01:17:38,280 --> 01:17:40,280
Speaker 1: moment where he shows up is like I guess treated

1309
01:17:40,320 --> 01:17:42,880
Speaker 1: as this like big reveal or something, but it doesn't

1310
01:17:42,920 --> 01:17:45,160
Speaker 1: need to be. And instead he just like he makes

1311
01:17:45,200 --> 01:17:48,400
Speaker 1: it seem like her problems are nothing, and then he's like, sorry,

1312
01:17:48,400 --> 01:17:50,760
Speaker 1: you gotta go by, but it's so that he can

1313
01:17:50,840 --> 01:17:53,599
Speaker 1: like get in the car really fast and come safer.

1314
01:17:53,640 --> 01:17:55,600
Speaker 1: Why wouldn't he tell her that he was coming to

1315
01:17:55,680 --> 01:17:59,519
Speaker 1: rescue her. Ah, Yeah, I don't. That didn't make any

1316
01:17:59,520 --> 01:18:02,679
Speaker 1: sense to me. All that said, I liked the fish jokes.

1317
01:18:03,920 --> 01:18:07,479
Speaker 1: The fish jokes were great. I mean I have something

1318
01:18:07,560 --> 01:18:12,960
Speaker 1: in terms of like the varied queer representation within this

1319
01:18:13,040 --> 01:18:17,640
Speaker 1: quote unquote queer movie. Um is, so I auditioned for

1320
01:18:17,680 --> 01:18:24,240
Speaker 1: Happiest Season? Yeah? I, um yeah, I auditioned for Aubrey

1321
01:18:24,240 --> 01:18:28,080
Speaker 1: Plaza's role. And I know a couple of other people

1322
01:18:28,160 --> 01:18:31,360
Speaker 1: who auditioned for it to who have like said publicly,

1323
01:18:31,400 --> 01:18:33,880
Speaker 1: I know Rio Butcher said that the auditioned for it.

1324
01:18:34,400 --> 01:18:37,920
Speaker 1: Irene to audition for it, and like, I don't. I'm

1325
01:18:37,960 --> 01:18:41,080
Speaker 1: sure they put out a wide swath of auditions for

1326
01:18:41,200 --> 01:18:44,680
Speaker 1: like queer people in general, but like to see specifically

1327
01:18:45,320 --> 01:18:49,080
Speaker 1: these three people and me Irene Ria, I'm like, oh,

1328
01:18:49,280 --> 01:18:54,599
Speaker 1: so they did audition like masculine people, gender nonconforming people,

1329
01:18:54,960 --> 01:18:59,280
Speaker 1: trans people and me and Ria trans and ultimately they

1330
01:18:59,360 --> 01:19:04,120
Speaker 1: chose a cis feminine woman, which like, I'm glad having

1331
01:19:04,120 --> 01:19:05,920
Speaker 1: seen the movie, I'm glad Aubrey Plasa was in it

1332
01:19:05,960 --> 01:19:08,000
Speaker 1: because I want to look at Aubrey Plaza. I would

1333
01:19:08,080 --> 01:19:10,200
Speaker 1: rather look at Aubrey Plaza than be in that movie.

1334
01:19:10,880 --> 01:19:14,120
Speaker 1: But but what that says to me is, you know

1335
01:19:14,160 --> 01:19:16,040
Speaker 1: they've done It's not that they auditioned us and they

1336
01:19:16,080 --> 01:19:20,000
Speaker 1: cast Ruby Rose or Asia Kate Dillan or Roberta Calindras

1337
01:19:20,120 --> 01:19:24,440
Speaker 1: or like some other like more famous masculine gender, nonconforming,

1338
01:19:25,120 --> 01:19:28,640
Speaker 1: non binary person. They just looked at us and they

1339
01:19:28,720 --> 01:19:31,280
Speaker 1: ultimately were like, that's not what we want. We want

1340
01:19:31,360 --> 01:19:37,240
Speaker 1: three feminine women with long hair and femininity. And I

1341
01:19:37,280 --> 01:19:40,760
Speaker 1: think that that is a choice, a distinctive choice. It

1342
01:19:40,880 --> 01:19:44,640
Speaker 1: certainly is. That is telling, and it's another kind of

1343
01:19:44,680 --> 01:19:52,240
Speaker 1: marker of like this movie feels behind um to cast all.

1344
01:19:53,120 --> 01:19:55,880
Speaker 1: You know, there are four queer characters, all of them

1345
01:19:55,880 --> 01:19:59,360
Speaker 1: are siss, most of them are white. Aubrey Plaza is

1346
01:19:59,400 --> 01:20:02,599
Speaker 1: a person of alert, but it's still a very white

1347
01:20:02,640 --> 01:20:04,559
Speaker 1: and she's a person of color who moves through like

1348
01:20:04,640 --> 01:20:07,680
Speaker 1: whiteness in this sort of way. Right, and then just

1349
01:20:08,160 --> 01:20:12,800
Speaker 1: hearkening back to the Harper is like so complicit in

1350
01:20:12,880 --> 01:20:17,640
Speaker 1: her father's like campaign for what's clearly a Republican I

1351
01:20:17,680 --> 01:20:19,960
Speaker 1: know we can't get over the local politics thing, but

1352
01:20:20,520 --> 01:20:24,920
Speaker 1: because but like we're having a lot of these conversations right,

1353
01:20:25,000 --> 01:20:28,839
Speaker 1: like like our generation we have to talk to our families,

1354
01:20:29,080 --> 01:20:32,840
Speaker 1: We have to talk to our conservative family members. We

1355
01:20:32,880 --> 01:20:35,839
Speaker 1: have to talk to our parents who are well meaning

1356
01:20:35,880 --> 01:20:39,599
Speaker 1: but maybe not as progressive as younger generations, especially like

1357
01:20:40,000 --> 01:20:44,400
Speaker 1: white millennials who are anti racist, we have a responsibility

1358
01:20:44,439 --> 01:20:48,200
Speaker 1: to be like, hey, family, you need to stop you

1359
01:20:48,240 --> 01:20:51,120
Speaker 1: need to stop being shitty, you need to be actively

1360
01:20:51,160 --> 01:20:55,320
Speaker 1: anti racist. So for Harper to like just like, yeah,

1361
01:20:55,320 --> 01:20:58,120
Speaker 1: I'm gonna help my dad write his speeches for his

1362
01:20:58,479 --> 01:21:03,960
Speaker 1: Republican your campaign, it's just like it's on top of

1363
01:21:04,000 --> 01:21:07,040
Speaker 1: the fact that like it's it's it becomes confusing to

1364
01:21:07,080 --> 01:21:09,320
Speaker 1: me of like if this movie is aware that this

1365
01:21:09,439 --> 01:21:13,680
Speaker 1: is a problem that even exists, like it's just so

1366
01:21:14,840 --> 01:21:19,920
Speaker 1: treated as a given that like, well, you know, families

1367
01:21:19,960 --> 01:21:22,880
Speaker 1: are like this and without you know, acknowledging any of

1368
01:21:22,920 --> 01:21:24,960
Speaker 1: the active harm that comes with those views, and just

1369
01:21:25,280 --> 01:21:28,360
Speaker 1: for her to be so unchallenging of it and to

1370
01:21:28,560 --> 01:21:32,000
Speaker 1: just I mean, yeah, that's just like privilege operating at

1371
01:21:32,040 --> 01:21:34,640
Speaker 1: the highest level to be like, well, I don't know,

1372
01:21:34,760 --> 01:21:37,680
Speaker 1: it's like I don't want to make the holidays uncomfortable,

1373
01:21:37,760 --> 01:21:41,719
Speaker 1: and not the whole driving force behind that where it's like, well,

1374
01:21:41,920 --> 01:21:44,760
Speaker 1: uh sorry, Literally, the whole thing we've been saying this

1375
01:21:44,840 --> 01:21:47,640
Speaker 1: whole time is you must go home for the holidays

1376
01:21:47,760 --> 01:21:50,559
Speaker 1: and talk to your family. You must go home for

1377
01:21:50,600 --> 01:21:53,960
Speaker 1: the holidays and during Christmas, make your family uncomfortable, Like

1378
01:21:54,040 --> 01:21:58,599
Speaker 1: that's literally the discourse, right, yeah, and just this year

1379
01:21:58,640 --> 01:22:02,000
Speaker 1: in particular, to see that is not even not even

1380
01:22:02,040 --> 01:22:05,479
Speaker 1: be acknowledged by any character in the movie at any point,

1381
01:22:05,520 --> 01:22:09,680
Speaker 1: even characters that you would think would is. It's just

1382
01:22:09,720 --> 01:22:12,960
Speaker 1: like another uncanny element of this movie where I'm like,

1383
01:22:13,000 --> 01:22:18,479
Speaker 1: what planet, what year? What? Like? It just doesn't track

1384
01:22:18,600 --> 01:22:21,360
Speaker 1: at all, and it just makes it like less relevant.

1385
01:22:21,400 --> 01:22:28,320
Speaker 1: It works against the movie entirely. Yes, I don't know.

1386
01:22:29,720 --> 01:22:33,439
Speaker 1: I was like, Wow, does anyone have any all feel

1387
01:22:33,479 --> 01:22:40,559
Speaker 1: good now that we all feel happy? Happy season? The

1388
01:22:41,960 --> 01:22:44,360
Speaker 1: We've we've discussed this on this show before, so um,

1389
01:22:44,400 --> 01:22:46,320
Speaker 1: we don't need to get too into this. But there

1390
01:22:46,400 --> 01:22:49,479
Speaker 1: was an interview that Kristin Stewart did with Variety where

1391
01:22:49,560 --> 01:22:54,800
Speaker 1: she gave her perspective on gay actors playing gay characters

1392
01:22:54,840 --> 01:22:58,160
Speaker 1: that I thought was, um, just a take. I I

1393
01:22:58,200 --> 01:23:00,479
Speaker 1: don't think she's ever spoken on this iss you before.

1394
01:23:00,520 --> 01:23:04,559
Speaker 1: And so the writer Kate Arthur asked the question, Uh,

1395
01:23:04,560 --> 01:23:06,599
Speaker 1: there are a lot of people who feel it's important

1396
01:23:06,640 --> 01:23:09,080
Speaker 1: that gay actors play gay characters after so many years

1397
01:23:09,080 --> 01:23:12,000
Speaker 1: of that not being the case. What's your stance on that?

1398
01:23:12,360 --> 01:23:15,559
Speaker 1: And she gives a very long answer, but I found

1399
01:23:15,600 --> 01:23:21,080
Speaker 1: it to be pretty thoughtful, where she um basically says

1400
01:23:21,120 --> 01:23:25,160
Speaker 1: she doesn't know and it depends, which is vague, but

1401
01:23:25,200 --> 01:23:27,000
Speaker 1: she says, I would never want to tell a story

1402
01:23:27,040 --> 01:23:29,960
Speaker 1: that really should be told by somebody who's lived that experience.

1403
01:23:30,320 --> 01:23:32,880
Speaker 1: Having said that, it's a slippery slope conversation, because that

1404
01:23:32,920 --> 01:23:34,920
Speaker 1: means I could never play another straight character if I'm

1405
01:23:34,960 --> 01:23:37,439
Speaker 1: going to hold everyone to the letter of this particular law.

1406
01:23:37,520 --> 01:23:39,840
Speaker 1: I think it's such a grey area. There are ways

1407
01:23:39,880 --> 01:23:42,200
Speaker 1: for men to tell women's stories or way for women

1408
01:23:42,240 --> 01:23:44,320
Speaker 1: to tell men's stories, but we need to have our

1409
01:23:44,360 --> 01:23:47,439
Speaker 1: finger on the pulse and actually have to care. You

1410
01:23:47,560 --> 01:23:50,479
Speaker 1: kind of know where you're allowed. I mean, if you're

1411
01:23:50,479 --> 01:23:52,799
Speaker 1: telling a story about a community and they're not welcoming

1412
01:23:52,840 --> 01:23:55,200
Speaker 1: to you, then funk off. But if they are and

1413
01:23:55,240 --> 01:23:57,519
Speaker 1: you're becoming an ally and a part of it, and

1414
01:23:57,600 --> 01:23:59,559
Speaker 1: there's something that drove you there in the first place,

1415
01:23:59,600 --> 01:24:02,639
Speaker 1: that makes uniquely endowed with a perspective that might be worthwhile.

1416
01:24:03,000 --> 01:24:05,559
Speaker 1: There's nothing wrong with learning about each other and therefore

1417
01:24:05,600 --> 01:24:07,800
Speaker 1: helping each other tell stories. So I don't have a

1418
01:24:07,800 --> 01:24:12,160
Speaker 1: sure shot answer for that. And she kind of opens

1419
01:24:12,160 --> 01:24:16,400
Speaker 1: that discussion by saying like she has played, you know,

1420
01:24:16,680 --> 01:24:19,160
Speaker 1: so many straight roles and she's like a skinny, white

1421
01:24:19,240 --> 01:24:21,760
Speaker 1: CIS woman, and so, I don't know. I thought it

1422
01:24:21,800 --> 01:24:25,240
Speaker 1: was like an interesting answer to that question. I think,

1423
01:24:25,400 --> 01:24:27,280
Speaker 1: just like you said, a lot of that answer only

1424
01:24:27,320 --> 01:24:31,880
Speaker 1: works if you're a skinny, suys white woman exactly. Yeah.

1425
01:24:32,080 --> 01:24:33,360
Speaker 1: So I don't know. I mean I feel like we've

1426
01:24:33,400 --> 01:24:37,000
Speaker 1: we've had we've had conversations around this in a few

1427
01:24:37,240 --> 01:24:41,320
Speaker 1: different episodes. But it, Yeah, it basically does boil down

1428
01:24:41,360 --> 01:24:45,040
Speaker 1: to she is operating with a lot of privilege coming

1429
01:24:45,040 --> 01:24:48,400
Speaker 1: into this situation. And so some people were not thrilled

1430
01:24:48,400 --> 01:24:52,160
Speaker 1: that McKenzie Davis was cast because she is a straight actor.

1431
01:24:52,800 --> 01:24:56,479
Speaker 1: Other people don't care. And it comes through, It comes

1432
01:24:56,760 --> 01:24:59,600
Speaker 1: comes through, It comes through, like it doesn't have to

1433
01:25:00,000 --> 01:25:02,160
Speaker 1: doesn't have to come through, Like I think, I think

1434
01:25:02,240 --> 01:25:06,479
Speaker 1: Rachel Vice plays an amazing lesbian. Um, I always forget

1435
01:25:06,479 --> 01:25:09,840
Speaker 1: that Rachel Vice is straight. I what's funny is like

1436
01:25:09,920 --> 01:25:11,720
Speaker 1: i feel like I see her like on the Red

1437
01:25:11,760 --> 01:25:14,200
Speaker 1: Carpet and I'm like, oh, that's like a straight forty

1438
01:25:14,400 --> 01:25:17,000
Speaker 1: year old mother of three, Like that's like a straight woman.

1439
01:25:17,040 --> 01:25:19,240
Speaker 1: But she's like such a good actor that she can

1440
01:25:19,280 --> 01:25:21,519
Speaker 1: get into it. But like if it doesn't come through

1441
01:25:21,560 --> 01:25:24,640
Speaker 1: it like weird. I always forget that Mackenzie Davis was

1442
01:25:24,680 --> 01:25:28,679
Speaker 1: in San Junipero, which was like another thing that makes

1443
01:25:28,680 --> 01:25:32,400
Speaker 1: me cry when I watch it. But yeah, I don't know.

1444
01:25:32,439 --> 01:25:35,400
Speaker 1: I just I was wondering if that conversation was going

1445
01:25:35,439 --> 01:25:37,320
Speaker 1: to be had around this movie because there are a

1446
01:25:37,360 --> 01:25:39,519
Speaker 1: lot of queer actors playing queer parts, and then there's

1447
01:25:39,560 --> 01:25:41,680
Speaker 1: a few examples of that not being the case. And

1448
01:25:41,680 --> 01:25:45,000
Speaker 1: then we also have Victor Garber playing uh straight mayor

1449
01:25:45,240 --> 01:25:49,240
Speaker 1: who is homophobic, so there's I don't know. I thought

1450
01:25:49,479 --> 01:25:52,679
Speaker 1: I was glad she was asked the question, and hopefully

1451
01:25:52,680 --> 01:25:56,439
Speaker 1: this is a discussion we'll keep having. Yeah. Uh, speaking

1452
01:25:56,479 --> 01:26:00,960
Speaker 1: of Rachel Vice uh playing a lesbian character, I guess

1453
01:26:00,960 --> 01:26:03,880
Speaker 1: it's worth it, just at least mentioning that a lot

1454
01:26:03,960 --> 01:26:10,280
Speaker 1: of lesbian love stories in mainstream movies have been period

1455
01:26:10,280 --> 01:26:14,679
Speaker 1: pieces about like clandestine relationships that are kind of doomed

1456
01:26:14,960 --> 01:26:17,320
Speaker 1: from the start because of like the era that they

1457
01:26:17,360 --> 01:26:20,479
Speaker 1: take place in. I'm thinking of um, I'm thinking of this.

1458
01:26:21,320 --> 01:26:26,000
Speaker 1: He takes place in two thousand and seven. Right, it

1459
01:26:26,080 --> 01:26:28,320
Speaker 1: is a period piece. It is a period piece. It

1460
01:26:29,200 --> 01:26:32,840
Speaker 1: needs to be remember how it used to be. Thank God,

1461
01:26:33,240 --> 01:26:36,240
Speaker 1: it's not like that anymore. But yeah, like I mean

1462
01:26:36,360 --> 01:26:38,679
Speaker 1: like The Favorite and Portrait of a Lady on Fire

1463
01:26:38,840 --> 01:26:42,519
Speaker 1: and Carol um So, at least this movie takes place

1464
01:26:42,520 --> 01:26:45,800
Speaker 1: in the twenty century, because you know, there's there's some

1465
01:26:45,840 --> 01:26:50,760
Speaker 1: criticism about having like all the mainstream movies about a

1466
01:26:50,840 --> 01:26:55,760
Speaker 1: lesbian relationship taking place decades, if not hundreds of years ago,

1467
01:26:56,360 --> 01:27:00,439
Speaker 1: um so, and only with sis white women. To Y,

1468
01:27:01,439 --> 01:27:06,400
Speaker 1: it's just I have an especial softness for the lesbian

1469
01:27:06,439 --> 01:27:09,760
Speaker 1: period piece as a genre, so I like, I I

1470
01:27:09,800 --> 01:27:13,920
Speaker 1: feel like I am always trying to defend that genre

1471
01:27:14,280 --> 01:27:17,400
Speaker 1: because like I personally love it. I just feel like

1472
01:27:17,560 --> 01:27:21,160
Speaker 1: I would rather watch I would rather watch a lesbian

1473
01:27:21,200 --> 01:27:24,280
Speaker 1: period piece movie with like lush costume and set and

1474
01:27:24,360 --> 01:27:27,599
Speaker 1: like good writing and compelling characters and a relationship I'm

1475
01:27:27,680 --> 01:27:31,400
Speaker 1: rooting for regardless of how it ends. Then watch a

1476
01:27:31,479 --> 01:27:33,599
Speaker 1: movie that takes place in the modern day where people

1477
01:27:33,600 --> 01:27:35,439
Speaker 1: were close from H and M and it's a shitty

1478
01:27:35,439 --> 01:27:37,960
Speaker 1: relationship where I hate one of them and I don't

1479
01:27:37,960 --> 01:27:39,360
Speaker 1: want them to be together and I want them to

1480
01:27:39,400 --> 01:27:42,680
Speaker 1: break up, Like I just one of those. To me,

1481
01:27:43,000 --> 01:27:47,200
Speaker 1: the line is not modernity versus period It's like, is

1482
01:27:47,200 --> 01:27:49,559
Speaker 1: it a good movie, Like, did you write a good movie?

1483
01:27:50,200 --> 01:27:53,479
Speaker 1: Does it make sense? Doesn't make sense? Do we like

1484
01:27:53,600 --> 01:27:55,760
Speaker 1: any of these people? Do we like a single one

1485
01:27:55,760 --> 01:28:00,559
Speaker 1: of these people? I did? I dislike Harper Mary viewing,

1486
01:28:01,360 --> 01:28:04,080
Speaker 1: I just referred to The Favorite as my favorite lesbian

1487
01:28:04,120 --> 01:28:11,000
Speaker 1: holiday romantic comedy. So where's the for rewatching the Favorite?

1488
01:28:11,160 --> 01:28:14,120
Speaker 1: The Favorite does, for all of its tragedy, it does

1489
01:28:14,160 --> 01:28:17,479
Speaker 1: fill me with joy, fills me with joy more often

1490
01:28:17,479 --> 01:28:21,720
Speaker 1: than It's got joyous moments, tremendously joyous moments. The part

1491
01:28:21,760 --> 01:28:23,400
Speaker 1: where she kicks the ship out of the guy in

1492
01:28:23,439 --> 01:28:27,080
Speaker 1: the forest for like five minutes. It's hilarious. It's so funny.

1493
01:28:27,120 --> 01:28:30,080
Speaker 1: Every movie should have a five minutes of a woman

1494
01:28:30,280 --> 01:28:35,599
Speaker 1: kicking a man in the forest. It's just maybe maybe later.

1495
01:28:35,760 --> 01:28:37,840
Speaker 1: I'm like, I need, I need to rebound from watching

1496
01:28:37,880 --> 01:28:42,000
Speaker 1: Happiest Season for the third time in two weeks. Yeah,

1497
01:28:42,120 --> 01:28:45,320
Speaker 1: is there anything else we wanted to hit on? That's

1498
01:28:45,360 --> 01:28:48,160
Speaker 1: That's everything I had. I think. I'm just that there's

1499
01:28:48,200 --> 01:28:51,680
Speaker 1: cat easier the cats. Cats get talked about, but we

1500
01:28:51,840 --> 01:28:55,519
Speaker 1: never see cats on screen. Rude, there is cat eraser.

1501
01:28:55,720 --> 01:28:59,080
Speaker 1: That's totally true. Yeah, why wasn't anyone talking about that?

1502
01:28:59,479 --> 01:29:03,800
Speaker 1: Why isn't that the main topic of discussion around I

1503
01:29:03,840 --> 01:29:06,519
Speaker 1: want to say something. Oh my god, we didn't talk

1504
01:29:06,520 --> 01:29:11,000
Speaker 1: about this. The part where um Harper sends Abby the

1505
01:29:11,120 --> 01:29:15,200
Speaker 1: like sexy selfie she's wearing like a full like shirt

1506
01:29:15,320 --> 01:29:19,760
Speaker 1: and Brie in bed. That was very revealing to me.

1507
01:29:19,840 --> 01:29:22,200
Speaker 1: I was like, okay, so the sexy picture she she

1508
01:29:22,479 --> 01:29:27,719
Speaker 1: is sending her as a fully closed in bed, fully

1509
01:29:27,800 --> 01:29:31,479
Speaker 1: closed thinking of you, like wearing all my clothes. I

1510
01:29:31,600 --> 01:29:33,840
Speaker 1: was like, okay, that's where we're out. The way they

1511
01:29:33,880 --> 01:29:36,240
Speaker 1: act around each other, and like, have these women ever

1512
01:29:36,240 --> 01:29:39,760
Speaker 1: seen each other naked before? Like we just don't know.

1513
01:29:40,000 --> 01:29:42,639
Speaker 1: I just feel like Kristen Stewart was cold and Harper

1514
01:29:42,760 --> 01:29:49,559
Speaker 1: is straight. That's a perfect review. Yeah, yeah, that's all

1515
01:29:49,560 --> 01:29:52,920
Speaker 1: I had. All Right, Well, we know it passes the

1516
01:29:53,000 --> 01:29:57,920
Speaker 1: Vechtel test. Yes, it passes it. But I would venture

1517
01:29:58,000 --> 01:30:01,040
Speaker 1: to ask, is it worth that for a movie to

1518
01:30:01,160 --> 01:30:06,719
Speaker 1: pass the Actel test technically if they're not like, arguably, sure,

1519
01:30:06,840 --> 01:30:08,920
Speaker 1: two women talk to each other about something that's not

1520
01:30:09,000 --> 01:30:12,840
Speaker 1: a man, but what do they talk about? Yeah? Well,

1521
01:30:12,880 --> 01:30:16,559
Speaker 1: tragic It does tragically pass the Bactel test when Harper

1522
01:30:16,640 --> 01:30:20,639
Speaker 1: says what about me? And Abby says okay, and that's

1523
01:30:20,680 --> 01:30:25,839
Speaker 1: just a sign of a flawed metric. Yes, we need more,

1524
01:30:26,000 --> 01:30:29,439
Speaker 1: we need more ways to measure these things that we're watching.

1525
01:30:29,760 --> 01:30:32,880
Speaker 1: Oh well, funny you should mention because we have something

1526
01:30:32,920 --> 01:30:38,760
Speaker 1: called the Nipple scale, which is goodness of I mean,

1527
01:30:38,800 --> 01:30:42,400
Speaker 1: the most important media metric of our time. Um. It

1528
01:30:42,640 --> 01:30:45,800
Speaker 1: is a scale of zero to five nipples that examines

1529
01:30:46,640 --> 01:30:50,880
Speaker 1: movies from an intersectional feminist lens and how well the

1530
01:30:50,880 --> 01:30:57,479
Speaker 1: movie fares um. This one is a lot of a

1531
01:30:57,479 --> 01:31:00,280
Speaker 1: lot of them are tricky. This one's tricky because is

1532
01:31:00,360 --> 01:31:05,719
Speaker 1: on one hand, it's like a mainstream queer Christmas movie,

1533
01:31:05,800 --> 01:31:08,559
Speaker 1: kind of the first of its kind in that it

1534
01:31:08,720 --> 01:31:13,040
Speaker 1: is again mainstream, big studio backing kind of thing. It's

1535
01:31:13,080 --> 01:31:18,360
Speaker 1: more accessible, but it wants you to root for a

1536
01:31:18,479 --> 01:31:25,439
Speaker 1: queer relationship that is toxic and unhealthy because of Harper,

1537
01:31:26,280 --> 01:31:30,080
Speaker 1: And I just can't really get behind it. And I

1538
01:31:30,160 --> 01:31:33,240
Speaker 1: know that Harper is under a lot of stress and

1539
01:31:33,479 --> 01:31:36,400
Speaker 1: is going through something very difficult of having to be

1540
01:31:36,479 --> 01:31:40,240
Speaker 1: in the closet around her family and having to hide

1541
01:31:40,240 --> 01:31:42,840
Speaker 1: her authentic self. And I know there are a lot

1542
01:31:42,880 --> 01:31:47,599
Speaker 1: of people today who aren't out to their families and friends,

1543
01:31:47,800 --> 01:31:50,360
Speaker 1: and I want to acknowledge that, and I don't think

1544
01:31:50,360 --> 01:31:53,360
Speaker 1: that that aspect of this story is unrealistic or anything.

1545
01:31:53,880 --> 01:31:56,479
Speaker 1: And if Harper hasn't felt ready to come out to

1546
01:31:56,560 --> 01:32:00,000
Speaker 1: her family, that's entirely her choice. But as we've said

1547
01:32:00,000 --> 01:32:03,240
Speaker 1: said that does not give her an excuse to be

1548
01:32:03,479 --> 01:32:11,000
Speaker 1: so dismissive and mean and unsupportive to her partner. And

1549
01:32:11,040 --> 01:32:16,280
Speaker 1: the fact that it's also extremely white and sis and

1550
01:32:17,360 --> 01:32:22,080
Speaker 1: weirdly Republican, it's just it's not the movie we needed

1551
01:32:22,120 --> 01:32:25,600
Speaker 1: in we've said before, would have made more sense in

1552
01:32:25,680 --> 01:32:28,240
Speaker 1: the context of it coming out in like two thousand

1553
01:32:29,000 --> 01:32:32,840
Speaker 1: six or something like that would have been groundbreaking pre Obama,

1554
01:32:32,880 --> 01:32:37,519
Speaker 1: a pre Obama game. Yeah, that's what this feels like

1555
01:32:37,600 --> 01:32:42,120
Speaker 1: to me. So hopefully this does that thing to like

1556
01:32:42,960 --> 01:32:46,840
Speaker 1: pave the way even though it feels outdated by by

1557
01:32:46,880 --> 01:32:50,320
Speaker 1: our standards. Maybe this is sort of one of those

1558
01:32:50,320 --> 01:32:53,040
Speaker 1: like stepping stone movies that we need that paves the

1559
01:32:53,080 --> 01:32:58,439
Speaker 1: way for more inclusive representation. But yeah, it's just it

1560
01:32:59,240 --> 01:33:01,839
Speaker 1: feels out day it in the way that it presents

1561
01:33:01,840 --> 01:33:05,320
Speaker 1: a lot of aspects of the story. So with that

1562
01:33:05,400 --> 01:33:10,120
Speaker 1: in mind, I hate like doing a split down the

1563
01:33:10,120 --> 01:33:14,000
Speaker 1: middle like two point five nipple rating, but but that

1564
01:33:14,000 --> 01:33:20,160
Speaker 1: that but but that feels appropriate. I think. I don't know,

1565
01:33:20,400 --> 01:33:24,000
Speaker 1: I'm so indecisive. You always like you don't do you

1566
01:33:24,040 --> 01:33:25,840
Speaker 1: always go first, and then you're always like, what should

1567
01:33:27,400 --> 01:33:31,640
Speaker 1: this is my burden to bear? But yeah, I'll go

1568
01:33:31,720 --> 01:33:35,600
Speaker 1: with a two point five until I'm convinced otherwise by

1569
01:33:35,720 --> 01:33:40,880
Speaker 1: everyone else's nipple rating, because that's how it always goes. Um. Yeah,

1570
01:33:41,000 --> 01:33:47,120
Speaker 1: and I'll give my nipples to the reindeer that uh

1571
01:33:47,280 --> 01:33:51,080
Speaker 1: Christian Stewart has to lean on as she is ice scared.

1572
01:33:52,320 --> 01:33:55,599
Speaker 1: So if feminist icon that reindeer, I'm gonna I'll go.

1573
01:33:55,760 --> 01:33:58,519
Speaker 1: I'll go a two and a half as well. I

1574
01:33:58,720 --> 01:34:01,559
Speaker 1: just yeah, I guess, I guess I'll go down the middle.

1575
01:34:01,600 --> 01:34:06,120
Speaker 1: I don't want to come down unduly hard on this movie,

1576
01:34:06,640 --> 01:34:10,320
Speaker 1: but it is, you know, it's one of the core

1577
01:34:10,400 --> 01:34:14,439
Speaker 1: messages is that you should kind of work to appease

1578
01:34:15,040 --> 01:34:19,920
Speaker 1: your like white, Republican homophobic family, and that just is like, well,

1579
01:34:19,960 --> 01:34:23,599
Speaker 1: then this movie I feel like I feel like we've

1580
01:34:23,600 --> 01:34:25,680
Speaker 1: been talking about it throughout the entire episode, but it's

1581
01:34:25,720 --> 01:34:30,840
Speaker 1: just like that's like false advertising. That's not what we

1582
01:34:31,200 --> 01:34:34,719
Speaker 1: I would like to believe this movie was. I wasn't,

1583
01:34:35,120 --> 01:34:37,439
Speaker 1: but I think that Ultimately, this movie is kind of

1584
01:34:37,600 --> 01:34:42,439
Speaker 1: for straight parents. Like it's so in that way, it

1585
01:34:42,479 --> 01:34:45,519
Speaker 1: was a letdown. It's like there's so many missed opportunities

1586
01:34:45,640 --> 01:34:53,200
Speaker 1: for stronger character connections, for like stakes that make more sense,

1587
01:34:53,320 --> 01:34:56,880
Speaker 1: that serve the characters and the audience a lot better.

1588
01:34:57,280 --> 01:35:01,880
Speaker 1: There's it just is like messy, and I think Clia

1589
01:35:02,439 --> 01:35:08,160
Speaker 1: deval can and will do better in the future. Um,

1590
01:35:08,240 --> 01:35:11,720
Speaker 1: and yeah, I don't know. It just it was it's

1591
01:35:11,760 --> 01:35:14,519
Speaker 1: it wasn't even happiest and that was in the title.

1592
01:35:14,960 --> 01:35:18,240
Speaker 1: So that's not fair. Um, yeah, this is like it's

1593
01:35:18,280 --> 01:35:22,320
Speaker 1: it's another movie that is just kind of made to

1594
01:35:22,439 --> 01:35:25,920
Speaker 1: make white parents feel good about themselves in a way

1595
01:35:25,920 --> 01:35:29,360
Speaker 1: that just doesn't sit well. So yeah, I'll go two

1596
01:35:29,360 --> 01:35:34,720
Speaker 1: point five and I'm going to give my nipples to

1597
01:35:36,720 --> 01:35:43,880
Speaker 1: I guess uh Dan Levie and uh Aprey Plaza. M nice, Jess.

1598
01:35:43,920 --> 01:35:48,120
Speaker 1: What about you? God? Well, I said I'm I said

1599
01:35:48,160 --> 01:35:49,840
Speaker 1: I was going to be a hater. I said up

1600
01:35:49,880 --> 01:35:52,080
Speaker 1: top sure that I was going to be a hater.

1601
01:35:52,439 --> 01:35:54,840
Speaker 1: And I've made it abundantly clear over the course of

1602
01:35:54,880 --> 01:36:00,200
Speaker 1: this episode. My opinions on this movie, Um, it's got

1603
01:36:00,200 --> 01:36:03,559
Speaker 1: to be a one nip for me, Like I just

1604
01:36:03,760 --> 01:36:07,600
Speaker 1: I feel it did not deliver on any of the

1605
01:36:07,640 --> 01:36:12,439
Speaker 1: promises that I was like told from the beginning. I

1606
01:36:12,479 --> 01:36:16,599
Speaker 1: feel like I I just feel surprised. Like I felt

1607
01:36:16,640 --> 01:36:18,880
Speaker 1: surprised the whole time. I thought I wasn't gonna like

1608
01:36:18,960 --> 01:36:21,200
Speaker 1: it because I don't care for romantic comedies, you know.

1609
01:36:21,640 --> 01:36:24,080
Speaker 1: I didn't think it was gonna like drop like my

1610
01:36:24,120 --> 01:36:28,240
Speaker 1: own bad experiences, um because like I didn't think it

1611
01:36:28,280 --> 01:36:30,559
Speaker 1: was going to make me remember how it feels to

1612
01:36:30,600 --> 01:36:32,840
Speaker 1: be queer and alone. Like I was like, that is

1613
01:36:32,920 --> 01:36:35,400
Speaker 1: kind of the opposite experience of what I was expecting.

1614
01:36:36,760 --> 01:36:38,840
Speaker 1: And I feel bummed out because it was sort of

1615
01:36:38,840 --> 01:36:41,960
Speaker 1: like a bias for us type project, and I just

1616
01:36:42,000 --> 01:36:44,760
Speaker 1: want to hold us. I almost I'm holding us to

1617
01:36:44,800 --> 01:36:48,160
Speaker 1: a much higher standard. I hold clear duvalto a higher

1618
01:36:48,200 --> 01:36:51,599
Speaker 1: standard than some like straight man making a lesbian movie

1619
01:36:51,600 --> 01:36:54,479
Speaker 1: because of a straight man gets it wrong or offense

1620
01:36:54,600 --> 01:36:56,920
Speaker 1: offensive or harmful. I'm like, well, you what do you know?

1621
01:36:57,720 --> 01:37:00,760
Speaker 1: You don't know anything. Yeah, all of this is with

1622
01:37:00,840 --> 01:37:03,120
Speaker 1: love and respect, and I just want to put it

1623
01:37:03,120 --> 01:37:06,000
Speaker 1: out there that should Clear Duval want somebody to look

1624
01:37:06,000 --> 01:37:08,840
Speaker 1: over script or radical a little punch up, do a

1625
01:37:08,840 --> 01:37:10,800
Speaker 1: little punch up. I would have loved to punch up

1626
01:37:10,800 --> 01:37:15,320
Speaker 1: this script. I have ideas the second to it higher Jess, everybody,

1627
01:37:16,479 --> 01:37:18,920
Speaker 1: Everything I do is just just a platform for me

1628
01:37:19,000 --> 01:37:20,519
Speaker 1: to go and if someone wants to give me a

1629
01:37:20,600 --> 01:37:24,680
Speaker 1: job here. I forget who said this, but there was

1630
01:37:24,720 --> 01:37:27,360
Speaker 1: like some at some point in the Twitter discoursed around this,

1631
01:37:27,400 --> 01:37:30,360
Speaker 1: someone was like, if you're rooting for the couple from

1632
01:37:30,439 --> 01:37:35,639
Speaker 1: marriage story more than the couple in Happiest Season, that's

1633
01:37:35,800 --> 01:37:41,360
Speaker 1: really that does not bode well. M m m, yeah, brutal.

1634
01:37:41,560 --> 01:37:43,559
Speaker 1: This movie also kind of operates on the assumption that,

1635
01:37:43,640 --> 01:37:48,800
Speaker 1: like that the only type of cinematic conflict or like

1636
01:37:49,040 --> 01:37:54,160
Speaker 1: type of story that queer people would encounter is like

1637
01:37:54,160 --> 01:37:57,240
Speaker 1: like a coming out narrative. And it's like, well, what

1638
01:37:57,320 --> 01:38:00,840
Speaker 1: about like right, what about people who are like out

1639
01:38:00,880 --> 01:38:04,479
Speaker 1: and living their lives right and like contending with like

1640
01:38:04,560 --> 01:38:06,720
Speaker 1: what it is to be what it is to like

1641
01:38:06,800 --> 01:38:09,839
Speaker 1: really be queer. Not not that people who are closeted

1642
01:38:09,840 --> 01:38:11,639
Speaker 1: are not really queer, That's not what I'm saying, but

1643
01:38:11,680 --> 01:38:15,040
Speaker 1: like the whole tension in this movie is about disappearing

1644
01:38:15,080 --> 01:38:19,479
Speaker 1: into straight world, and like what about people who can't

1645
01:38:19,640 --> 01:38:24,720
Speaker 1: do that? Yeah? Yeah, we need more movies that normalize

1646
01:38:24,920 --> 01:38:30,440
Speaker 1: queer people's lives and romantic relationships and friendships and careers

1647
01:38:30,960 --> 01:38:34,600
Speaker 1: and any other aspect of a person's life like what

1648
01:38:34,640 --> 01:38:37,960
Speaker 1: about queer People? Or like a movie where the tension

1649
01:38:38,080 --> 01:38:40,680
Speaker 1: with the queer characters is not how they relate to

1650
01:38:40,920 --> 01:38:47,759
Speaker 1: straightness people, where that's just like not the thing. Well, folks,

1651
01:38:48,240 --> 01:38:53,479
Speaker 1: there you have it our Happiest Season episodes again if

1652
01:38:53,520 --> 01:38:57,200
Speaker 1: you if you love the movie, all good, but like

1653
01:38:57,280 --> 01:39:01,479
Speaker 1: you know, consider on your next one much. I hope

1654
01:39:01,479 --> 01:39:03,800
Speaker 1: you guys put a Christmas soundtrack over this whole thing

1655
01:39:03,880 --> 01:39:06,120
Speaker 1: to kind of to bring it up, to do what

1656
01:39:06,200 --> 01:39:08,280
Speaker 1: I wish they had done and Happiest Season put a

1657
01:39:08,360 --> 01:39:11,160
Speaker 1: nice little shingle bell, the teakon and Sarah song. It's

1658
01:39:11,200 --> 01:39:13,559
Speaker 1: just going to be on repeat. We've got the rights

1659
01:39:13,600 --> 01:39:15,880
Speaker 1: to it and we're going to just play it under

1660
01:39:15,920 --> 01:39:20,000
Speaker 1: the whole episode on repeat. Jes thank you so much

1661
01:39:20,120 --> 01:39:23,080
Speaker 1: for being here and talking about this movie with us.

1662
01:39:23,400 --> 01:39:26,360
Speaker 1: What is thank you for having me. This was the

1663
01:39:26,400 --> 01:39:33,160
Speaker 1: happiest season. Where can people follow you online and check

1664
01:39:33,160 --> 01:39:36,200
Speaker 1: out anything you want to plug You can find me

1665
01:39:36,560 --> 01:39:40,200
Speaker 1: on the internet on Twitter, which is my disgusting domain

1666
01:39:40,479 --> 01:39:43,240
Speaker 1: at just Tom J E. S. T O M. Or

1667
01:39:43,280 --> 01:39:45,880
Speaker 1: Instagram at just the Kid j e Yes the Kid,

1668
01:39:46,040 --> 01:39:48,160
Speaker 1: and the internet is where I live now, so that's

1669
01:39:48,160 --> 01:39:52,519
Speaker 1: where you'll find me. Indeed, tell you you can follow

1670
01:39:52,680 --> 01:39:57,000
Speaker 1: us also on the internet at Bechtel Cast on Twitter

1671
01:39:57,080 --> 01:40:02,599
Speaker 1: and Instagram and our patreon k Matreon is at patreon

1672
01:40:02,640 --> 01:40:05,320
Speaker 1: dot com slash pecktel Cast, and that is where you

1673
01:40:05,400 --> 01:40:08,880
Speaker 1: can get to bonus episodes every single month for five

1674
01:40:09,000 --> 01:40:12,280
Speaker 1: dollars a month plus access to the entire back catalog.

1675
01:40:13,080 --> 01:40:16,680
Speaker 1: What a bargain we did the new Princess Switch you

1676
01:40:16,680 --> 01:40:19,240
Speaker 1: want to talk about a movie that makes no sense?

1677
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Speaker 1: Princess which to switched again to part to Royals, the

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Speaker 1: Royal Switching, And then you can take check out our

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Speaker 1: merchant public dot com slash the Bechtel Cast. Um. I

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Speaker 1: hope everyone is having I mean, the happiest season of

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Speaker 1: all yikes. Well, enjoy the rest of the year and

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Speaker 1: we will be back for an episode on New Year's

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Speaker 1: Eve about the movie New Year's Eve Nightmare. Bye bye,