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Speaker 1: Warning, this podcast contains spoilers for The Flash and some

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Speaker 1: theories for Secret Division. Hello on im Rosey Night, and

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Speaker 1: welcome back after our short break to x ray Vision,

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Speaker 1: the Crooked media podcast where we dive deep but to

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Speaker 1: your favorite shows, movies, comics, and pop culture. We missed you.

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Speaker 1: We're glad you're back. We did.

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Speaker 2: In this episode previously on, I'm gonna give you a

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Speaker 2: little refresher on The Flash's journey through production hell and

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Speaker 2: obviously the controversies around it star Ezra Miller. In the

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Speaker 2: air Lock, we're going to talk about The Flash It's time,

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Speaker 2: and then we got a double omnibus for you. We're

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Speaker 2: going to be covering the two comics that are going

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Speaker 2: to be inspiring, all the stuff we're talking about Flashpoint,

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Speaker 2: and then to prepare for Secret Invasion, which is hitting

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Speaker 2: on the day you will hear this podcast. Jason's written

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Speaker 2: an in edible omnibus on Secret Invasion in the Nerd

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Speaker 2: Out and MCU Multiverse query from Homer.

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Speaker 1: Ooh coming up previously on Okay, First up, some background

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Speaker 1: context for The Flash, a very troubled production, focusing on

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Speaker 1: the issues surrounding star Ezra Miller. First of all, I

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Speaker 1: saw this film this weekend in the theater as one.

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Speaker 1: I guess should I too saw it in the theater,

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Speaker 1: and I'm excited to talk about our thoughts. But I

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Speaker 1: will say I guess because of how pointedly troubled the

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Speaker 1: production has been. I was kind of surprised that it.

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is better than Black Adam. I enjoyed

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Speaker 1: some parts of it. I'll just leave it there, That's

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Speaker 1: what I'll say.

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Speaker 2: I will say my general takeaway is that it wasn't

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Speaker 2: a film that was for me, but there was some

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Speaker 2: moments where I was kind of blown away by the

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Speaker 2: artist tree and the good things yeah, that came out

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Speaker 2: of this movie that I think was, like you said,

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Speaker 2: very troubled.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So where to even start with the Ezra Miller situation.

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Speaker 1: Miller has been involved in a litany of legal issues,

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Speaker 1: starting with an arrest and an accusation of grooming a teenager.

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Speaker 1: These exploits include trespassing, choking a woman in Iceland in

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Speaker 1: an incident that has been caught on camera, and other

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Speaker 1: issues dating back to twenty twenty, and these issues at

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Speaker 1: the time seemed to pose a potentially mortal threat to

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Speaker 1: the Flash production. I think you and I both opined

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Speaker 1: that there was no way that this movie could go forward,

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Speaker 1: and yet it has gone forward. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I think once you see the movie and you understand

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Speaker 2: that Ezra is on screen for ninety nine percent of

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Speaker 2: the film, you understand the quandary on a business sense

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Speaker 2: that Warner Brothers was in, even though they never seemed

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Speaker 2: to have a.

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Speaker 1: Moral quandary about it.

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Speaker 2: I still it quite shocking that this film came out

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Speaker 2: and there has not been more conversation about the work

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Speaker 2: that Ezra has hopefully done to kind of hopefully make

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Speaker 2: themselves bare, make the people they harmed. That I feel

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Speaker 2: like it's quite strange there kind of hasn't been a

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Speaker 2: pr campaign or a conversation around that. But also, this

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Speaker 2: movie probably cost around three hundred million dollars, so I

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Speaker 2: understand that for Warner it's a business choice.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that was part of the conversation we were having off Mike. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: in the Discovery era, the David Zaslav era, Warner Discovery

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Speaker 1: has been making a lot of waves by its unilateral

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Speaker 1: canceling of projects that were in the works and its

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Speaker 1: memory houling of various content that was on the HBO

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Speaker 1: Max platform, and all of this in order to basically

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Speaker 1: create write downs so that they could cut some of

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Speaker 1: the enormous debt that Discovery taken on in its leverage

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Speaker 1: purchase of Warner Brothers. So from that perspective, I agree

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Speaker 1: with you. I don't know how they could have not

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Speaker 1: done this film from a we need to cut the

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Speaker 1: debt perspective. This movie cost I think the reported numbers

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Speaker 1: somewhere south of two twenty yeah, south of three hundred million.

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Speaker 1: But like there's a lot of scuttle but that it

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Speaker 1: costs anywhere up to a half a billion, like.

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Speaker 2: Mm hmm, especially including marketing and the many many reshoots. Also,

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Speaker 2: I think we will get into this more in both

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Speaker 2: the conversation about the Flash and also in my Flashpoint omnibus.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, it's really interesting. I was in a comic

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Speaker 2: shop in Palm Springs, one of my local comic shops

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Speaker 2: that I love. I love that shop, Comics Asylum, Palm Springs.

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Speaker 2: I was talking to the owner and all she wanted

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Speaker 2: was to see Grant Gustin in a Flash movie.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and so many people have said that to me.

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Speaker 2: They've gone, I don't understand why they made this movie

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Speaker 2: with Ezra or why they didn't just get grant like

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Speaker 2: so many wide audience.

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Speaker 1: There was a moment and that I thought he was

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Speaker 1: gonna be in it. But we'll continue with that, right, Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we'll talk about that more.

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Speaker 2: But basically, the other side of this, aside from the

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Speaker 2: Ezra of it all, which is the kind of I

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Speaker 2: feel like the thing that has really been way and

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Speaker 2: heavy on us and on many of the audience, like

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Speaker 2: morally and kind of ethically, is like this seems like

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Speaker 2: it's being brushed over. But even before Ezra was even attached,

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Speaker 2: this movie has had an absolutely wild journey through production.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, let's go through it. Let's go through it.

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Speaker 2: So I just want to shout out Maya, who is

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Speaker 2: our crooked intern, because this is an unbelievable, like twenty

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Speaker 2: years that she had to flip through it. But look,

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Speaker 2: it starts with our old friend. David Goyer writes a

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Speaker 2: flash script in two thousand and seven with Wally West

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Speaker 2: as the lead.

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Speaker 1: I would love to see it.

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Speaker 2: It was one of the things that we suggested could

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Speaker 2: have been done to fix this movie. Barry Allen is

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Speaker 2: a sportive character, but he's the first creative to leave

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Speaker 2: for creative difference. Now you will see that that is

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Speaker 2: a recurring theme. Same year, Sean Levy's hired to oversee

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Speaker 2: the film. After less than a year, he leaves due

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Speaker 2: to his conflicts with his other film Night at the Museum.

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Speaker 1: And then we should add that this was a period

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Speaker 1: in which, first of all, DC theoretically writing high due

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Speaker 1: to the success of Batman Begins scriptwritten by David Goyer. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: directed by Christopher Nolan, of course, But this was also

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Speaker 1: a period when the conversation around DC was that the

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Speaker 1: leadership of the Comics creative leadership was heavily micromanaging films

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Speaker 1: and had a very very particular angle and like conflicts

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Speaker 1: like this would often arise.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and also remember this is pre Iron Man, right,

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Speaker 2: so there's no MCU. We have Batman Begins. That's a

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Speaker 2: game changer, and it reimagines the way that superhermovies can be.

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Speaker 2: And it also puts DC on the map for the

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Speaker 2: first time for a critically acclaimed live action movie in

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Speaker 2: quite a few years, where they'd already been smashing it

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Speaker 2: with the animated stuff. But it was a very interesting time.

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Speaker 2: And so end of December two thousand and seven, you

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Speaker 2: still have two more people who will be attached David Dobkin.

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Speaker 2: He's going to do a spin off of Justice League Mortal,

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Speaker 2: which is one of the most legendary never made movies,

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Speaker 2: and that would have cast Adam Brody as Barry Allen. Now,

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Speaker 2: I would personally have loved to see this. This is

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Speaker 2: George Miller's very famously never made Justice League movie, and

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Speaker 2: you were going to have like DJ Katrona as Clark Kent,

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Speaker 2: j Barroschell as Maxwell Lord, Like this is one of

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Speaker 2: those most famous kind of it never got made movies,

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Speaker 2: And of course you would have had Adam Brody then

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Speaker 2: as this lead of the Flash movie, but that didn't happen.

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Speaker 2: Justice League mort Or gets canceled within the same year.

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Speaker 2: Flash continues on with a two thousand.

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Speaker 1: And eight release date.

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Speaker 2: Then two thousand and seventy thousand and eight WGA Strike

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Speaker 2: further delays the Flash film production. Then Charles Roven is

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Speaker 2: brought on to produce with a new treatment by Jeff John's,

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Speaker 2: but the film is never greenlit. Twenty ten Green Lantern writers,

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Speaker 2: remember that beloved movie. Greg Balanty obviously now like the helmer.

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Speaker 1: Of a lot of the guy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the guy that we know from so many DC projects,

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Speaker 2: especially if you watch the TV show Michael Green and

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Speaker 2: Mark Guggenheimer developed They're gonna make green landin two that

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Speaker 2: didn't happen and the Flash October seventh, twenty yeah, I

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Speaker 2: mean you listen to that.

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Speaker 1: Right here is the period when Geoff John's noted Jeoff John's,

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Speaker 1: well known comics writer, creator and executive at DC, was

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Speaker 1: elevated to chief creative officer and really began an influential

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Speaker 1: and some would say troubled run definitely.

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Speaker 2: And also so twenty ten, that's when we're last looking

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Speaker 2: at this. We were just talking about, you know, green

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Speaker 2: Lantin to the Flash. Flash Point happened in twenty eleven,

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Speaker 2: which Jeff Johns was the writer of with the artist

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Speaker 2: Adam Cuba, And in twenty eleven Green Lantin came out

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Speaker 2: and flopped. So you'll notice that there is no talk

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Speaker 2: for another four years, and that is October seven, twenty fourteen.

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Speaker 2: That's when the Flash show begins, Grant Gustin starring on

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Speaker 2: the CW and that becomes the way that many audiences

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Speaker 2: learn about the Flash, learn about the Speed Force, learn

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Speaker 2: about the multiverse. Twenty fourteen, Ezra Miller is cast as

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Speaker 2: the Flash, so that's how long this movie. You're talking

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Speaker 2: nine years from when Ezra was cast and when Ezra

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Speaker 2: actually played the Flash and the movie came out, So

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Speaker 2: that's a seriously long time in production. Obviously, Ezra is

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Speaker 2: planned to appear in Justice League. That happens, and then

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Speaker 2: a twenty eighteen solo film, which we now know didn't

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Speaker 2: come out till twenty twenty three. So here we start

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Speaker 2: just with the production troubles on this film. You have

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Speaker 2: Seth Graham Smith hired to write and direct the Flash story,

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Speaker 2: developed by Phil Lord and Chris Miller. Seth Graham departs

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Speaker 2: in twenty sixteen creative differences. Now, this is the most

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Speaker 2: famous one and the one I wish we could have seen,

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Speaker 2: which is Rick Famer. You are who, obviously we now

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Speaker 2: know is the unbelievable powerhouse behind some of the best

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Speaker 2: episodes of The Mandalorian. He's hired to replace it. Then

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Speaker 2: we get Cyborg's hired in Justice League, and apparently it

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Speaker 2: is going to play a big role in the Flash

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Speaker 2: solo film, which makes a lot of sense because this

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Speaker 2: was when people started to realize, oh, this is a

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Speaker 2: Flashpoint movie. And as we will talk about in the

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Speaker 2: Flashpoint universe. There is no Superman, but Cyborg is essentially

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Speaker 2: the Superman of the universe, so it's really important to

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Speaker 2: have him in that role. Famaua leaves twenty sixteen. Twenty seventeen,

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Speaker 2: writer Joby Harold is hired to write a new take.

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Speaker 2: Twenty seventeen San Diego Comicon, it's revealed the Flash will

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Speaker 2: be an adaptation of Flashpoint.

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Speaker 1: Important to note that at this time, Infinity War an

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Speaker 1: endgame or Infinity War was twenty eighteen. In Game was

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Speaker 1: twenty nineteen. Peak Marvel happening right now, and DC under

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Speaker 1: extreme pressure to be like, where's your shared universe? And

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Speaker 1: this is where Flashpoint comes in, because it is the

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Speaker 1: hinged movie that would create the next level shared universe

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Speaker 1: on top of Justice League stuff.

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Speaker 2: It's actually really wild to think about it. Now we've

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Speaker 2: seen the Flash, and you, if you're listening to this,

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Speaker 2: have probably seen the Flash or you've read about it.

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Speaker 2: It's kind of mind blowing because you're absolutely right. Flashpoint

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Speaker 2: was supposed to be their end game. It was supposed

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Speaker 2: to be their Infinity War. It was supposed to be

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Speaker 2: all of those mixed into one, as well as their Avengers.

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Speaker 2: It was going to be that huge crossover movie that

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Speaker 2: everything had been leading to, after Justice League, after Batman

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Speaker 2: Versus Superman, and it was supposed to explode the world

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Speaker 2: out and introduce anyone that you wanted or bring in

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Speaker 2: new people, and that obviously is not the direction when

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Speaker 2: and in the end, we ended up in a situation

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Speaker 2: where this is the end of the DCEU rather than

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Speaker 2: kind of an expansion of it. Twenty eighteen Game Night

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Speaker 2: helmers John Francis Daily and Jonathan Goldstein, who we are

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Speaker 2: big fans of. They wrote the Dungeons and Dragon movie.

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Speaker 2: They were ate Homecoming.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they were in talks to.

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Speaker 2: Make a Flash movie and it was going to be

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Speaker 2: very back to the future influence.

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Speaker 1: That influence is still there.

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Speaker 2: Well yeah, if you see they're the ones who actually

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Speaker 2: have the first story credit on the movie.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because they obviously took a lot from that.

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Speaker 2: So then back to the future, like we said, we

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Speaker 2: saw it. The Flash movie's.

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Speaker 1: Delayed in twenty eighteen.

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Speaker 2: It was meant to come out in twenty eighteen, but

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Speaker 2: because of the Fantastic Beasts.

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Speaker 1: Movie, it's delayed.

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Speaker 2: Then Ezra spoke about how they were working with comic

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Speaker 2: book icon Grant Morrison on this kind of darker take

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Speaker 2: of the Flash, which was going to be something they

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Speaker 2: were going to pitch that would be a different story,

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Speaker 2: which makes a lot of sense. Grants done some of

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Speaker 2: the best cosmic multiversal comic book writing.

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Speaker 1: Daily and Goldstein leave because the creative difference is twenty nineteen.

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Speaker 2: Seeing a pattern here, Andy mcschetti is hired to replace

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Speaker 2: them with Christina Hodson, who wrote Birds to Pray, which

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Speaker 2: I love, as the new writer. Then the movie's gonna

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Speaker 2: come out July first, My birthday. Twenty twenty two didn't happen,

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Speaker 2: but in twenty twenty we did get a big moment

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Speaker 2: that really felt like DC was doing something Marvel had

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Speaker 2: not done yet, which was when Ezra's version of the

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Speaker 2: Flash showed up in the Flashed TV show during one

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Speaker 2: of their big crisis events and met Grant's Flash and

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Speaker 2: it was like, whoa, this is actually happening. And then

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Speaker 2: we hit April six, twenty twenty, and that video of

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Speaker 2: Ezra choking the woman in Iceland, which they claimed.

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Speaker 1: Was a joke just to put both sides out there, but.

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Speaker 2: That interaction goes online and then we start into that

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Speaker 2: Ezra era and everything else is more well known twenty twenty.

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Speaker 2: Michael Keaton's going to be in Batman. You know, Ben Affleck,

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Speaker 2: Bruce Wayne will be in the film. And we start

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Speaker 2: to get to where we know a little bit more

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Speaker 2: about the movie. Now.

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Speaker 1: The period that we just outlined, which leads us up

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Speaker 1: to the James gunn era right now, was a period

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Speaker 1: of executive turnover at DC. And I think you can

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Speaker 1: read that through the various so many regimes, so many regimes,

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Speaker 1: a lot of pocket regimes. TV didn't talk to film,

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Speaker 1: didn't talk to animation. They all have these five toimes.

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Speaker 1: And I think what you're seeing is with all the

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Speaker 1: creative differences. As the result of that, you bring in

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Speaker 1: a director or writer right and you say, what's your take,

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Speaker 1: We love it, go forward, the regime changes above the writer.

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Speaker 1: Now all of a sudden, that executive has a different

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Speaker 1: angle or has a different creative team that they want

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Speaker 1: to work with. They have notes. Things that were agreed

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Speaker 1: upon previously are no longer agreed upon because you've got

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Speaker 1: different parties involved, creative differences. And this is having over

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Speaker 1: and over and over again, which is what you get

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Speaker 1: in situations like this.

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Speaker 2: It's kind of mind blowing. Like I feel like even

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Speaker 2: me and you. We tell stories now in these spaces

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Speaker 2: and way, and we kind of are students of Hollywood

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Speaker 2: and this industry. But when you're outside of it even

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Speaker 2: and when you're even a little bit inside of it

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Speaker 2: the way I'm it kind of blows your mind how

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Speaker 2: much this stuff is chosen on a whim. I interviewed

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Speaker 2: Alex Winterer from Bill and Tedley, one of my favorite movies, right,

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Speaker 2: But he was talking about Freaked, which is this cult

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Speaker 2: movie that he made real practical effects, very beloved, weird

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Speaker 2: cult movie. It was gonna be this huge teen focus

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Speaker 2: smash for the studio because this one exec loved it

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Speaker 2: and he thought it was so good and it was

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Speaker 2: so weird, and they were going to do Levi's commercials

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Speaker 2: and Pepsi commercials. And he left and the new exec

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Speaker 2: who came in went to a screening in like somewhere

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Speaker 2: in the South Bay, sat the back, saw these kids

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Speaker 2: like losing their mind, like behaving real rowdy, and just

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Speaker 2: was like, the movie's not coming out, and just shelved it.

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Speaker 1: Because he just didn't get it.

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Speaker 2: And that's like, that's the difference between you can have

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Speaker 2: your champion and this is not we're not even talking

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Speaker 2: about hugep here. This is an original, weird, like cult

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Speaker 2: practical effects movie. But that's how much of a whim

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Speaker 2: this stuff can be. And obviously, when you're talking about

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Speaker 2: the Flash or something that's so much money, that's a

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Speaker 2: whole different level of control that the regime won.

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Speaker 1: Here's a good example, and it's kind of off topic, but

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Speaker 1: it's kind of on topic. I don't know what the

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Speaker 1: cases now, but a period of time AMC was because

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Speaker 1: of the corporate ownership of the channel, AMC the home

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Speaker 1: of Memin and Breaking Bad. James Dolan, the owner of

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Speaker 1: the New York Knicks and you know, CEO of Cablevision

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Speaker 1: once upon a time executive at Live Nation and various

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Speaker 1: other things, had the ability to like thumbs up or

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Speaker 1: thumbs down, like cuts of Madmen, Oh my gosh. And

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Speaker 1: so there would be times where this is just like

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Speaker 1: stuff I've heard where Madmen be like waiting to see like,

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Speaker 1: oh can we do this? Like is this cutokay? Or

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Speaker 1: like are we going to get a season two? And

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Speaker 1: they're basically waiting for like James Dolan to be like yeah, sure, fine.

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Speaker 1: And one of the things that James Dolan wanted was

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Speaker 1: to have his band's music involved in some show at AMC,

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Speaker 1: which ended up being Hell on Wheels the I don't

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Speaker 1: know if people remember the Western show that James eventually

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Speaker 1: did get his band's music on, but that was one

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Speaker 1: of the things that he was trying to do. And

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Speaker 1: it just goes to show you how like personalities of

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Speaker 1: zex absolutely influence all the things that you see mm hmm,

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Speaker 1: and we imagine that, oh, this is part of a

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Speaker 1: strategic vision and there's a reason.

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Speaker 2: No.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes like a person just is like, well, I want

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Speaker 1: to put this in there. Okay, now, we got to

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Speaker 1: do this, and that's just what happens.

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Speaker 2: And I do think that that is relevant here, especially

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Speaker 2: because not only because of all these different iterations that

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Speaker 2: we're talking about that almost became the Flash, but also

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Speaker 2: just and obviously there is a monetary element of this

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Speaker 2: and we will talk about this more, but even the

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Speaker 2: fact that David zaslav As the exec saw Batgirl, didn't

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Speaker 2: like it and said this isn't worth releasing, and then

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Speaker 2: saw the Flash and said, well, I think this is great,

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Speaker 2: and we spent a lot of money about it, so

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Speaker 2: we're going to throw all our money into that and

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Speaker 2: take the right down.

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Speaker 1: On bat Girl.

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Speaker 2: Even there is that once again a like subjective choice

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Speaker 2: on quality, as well as many many dollars and business

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Speaker 2: kind of things coming into it too. But it's really interesting.

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Speaker 1: Perversely, David Zaslav has become something of a pioneer in

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Speaker 1: the realm of write downs because once he started taking

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Speaker 1: programs off of his platforms, other platforms have followed suit. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Disney Plus, Netflix, Hulu, etc. Disney Plus various other platforms

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Speaker 1: are also taking shows off of their system in order

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Speaker 1: to take the write down, not have to pay the creators,

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Speaker 1: and basically lower their debt bill going forward as Wall

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Speaker 1: Street continues to hammer streaming. Now that we've talked about that,

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Speaker 1: let's talk about the movie.

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Speaker 2: Croocket is raising money for Vote Save America's fuck bands

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Speaker 1: Today, we're stepping out of the air lock and into

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Speaker 1: Central City for the Flash in theaters. Now, Rosie your thoughts.

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Speaker 2: I was very happy to see Kirssy Clemens back as

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Speaker 2: Iris West.

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Speaker 1: I love that casting.

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Speaker 2: I hated what they did with her in Justice League.

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Speaker 2: I still didn't think she got enough here, but I

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Speaker 2: love to see it. That was my happiest thing to see.

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Speaker 2: Other positive notes that I had Andy Mische, that's a

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Speaker 2: man who can direct a Batman. I understand why they

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Speaker 2: gave him Brave in the bold. You know what it is, Okay,

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Speaker 2: and I'm sure we're gonna agree on this, but like,

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Speaker 2: let's not get to the babies yet.

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Speaker 1: We'll leave the babies, the gummy babies, the babies, We'll

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Speaker 1: leave them for a minute. Let's start on something positive,

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Speaker 1: the much maligned, the much milized social cg rinezme sibling babies.

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Speaker 2: But like, you know what, this is a movie which somehow,

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Speaker 2: I don't know how this happened, but it did. This

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Speaker 2: is one of the truest impacts this movie had me.

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Speaker 2: I felt sad that we didn't get to see more

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Speaker 2: Ben Affleck Batman.

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Speaker 1: This ben Afflet Batman great. This ben Affleck.

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Speaker 2: Batman who gives him that speech, who tells him our

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Speaker 2: scars make us who we are.

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Speaker 1: You can't take that away.

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Speaker 2: The Batman, who is wearing a dark night returns cowl

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Speaker 2: that looks like it was drawn by Frank Miller and

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Speaker 2: inked by Klaus Jansen and colored by Lim Vallei. And

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Speaker 2: he's on the motorbike and he's zooming through the city

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Speaker 2: with this kind of soaring score.

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Speaker 1: I thought they should have won. They should have started

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Speaker 1: the movie there no babies.

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Speaker 2: But also like that to me, I was like, oh,

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Speaker 2: I was like, okay. Either ben Affleck was like, this

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Speaker 2: is my last chance, so I'm gonna kill it, or

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Speaker 2: he was never given the material to do something special.

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Speaker 2: Because it made me feel like I would have liked

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Speaker 2: to see this version of Batman.

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Speaker 1: Him and Keaton, they were the highlights for me, no question.

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Speaker 1: I feel the same way. I thought the cast as

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Speaker 1: well was great. It was wonderful to see Belverdu from

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Speaker 1: Ye Combien as as Barry's mom. I thought that it

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Speaker 1: was a better film than I thought it was going

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Speaker 1: to be. Like, I thought it was pretty good, actually

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Speaker 1: certainly better than Black Adam. I thought there were elements

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Speaker 1: of the emotional beats that actually kind of worked for me.

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Speaker 1: To your point, the relationship with Michael Keaton Batman with

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Speaker 1: Batman nineteen eighty nine was really I thought pretty fun. Actually.

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Speaker 1: That being said, there was one moment that really like

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Speaker 1: record scratched for me. Yes, And it's like eight minutes

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Speaker 1: into the film. Barry after, you know, he's got to

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Speaker 1: do this little thing to kind of help Batman out.

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Speaker 1: This is where the Babies comes in, and on his

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Speaker 1: way out, he's like interacting with some people on the

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Speaker 1: street and then he says to them something about I'm

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Speaker 1: going to kind of botch this, but paraphrasing, he mentioned

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Speaker 1: something about mental health and how important it is, and

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Speaker 1: he says that's something that the Justice League hasn't figured

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Speaker 1: out yet, which clearly to me, I mean, they basically

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Speaker 1: do a wink to camera. It's so like it felt

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Speaker 1: like a self referential Hey, we know you're kind of

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Speaker 1: aware of Ezra's issues and we are too, and we

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Speaker 1: just wanted to acknowledge that that's the only way it

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Speaker 1: makes sense for the inclusion of this in there. And

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Speaker 1: it just felt really tenured to me, like I don't

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Speaker 1: know that this is a thing to make fun of.

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Speaker 2: That to me was when I just turned on the movie,

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Speaker 2: like I couldn't help it. Like the CG babies, I

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Speaker 2: like weird, outrageous stuff, but that.

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Speaker 1: This extra I don't.

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Speaker 2: It's like the ezra of it all was always going

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Speaker 2: to be hard for me. Yeah, but I was like,

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Speaker 2: you know what, I'm going to.

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Speaker 1: Go into it.

436
00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:54,400
Speaker 2: I'm gonna hope that they're doing the work they need

437
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:56,560
Speaker 2: to do. I'm gonna hope that co Iron Eyes is

438
00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:58,720
Speaker 2: somewhere out there safe and being looked after it. I'm

439
00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:00,640
Speaker 2: just going to try and watch the movie and think

440
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:02,280
Speaker 2: about the movie and think about the comics and all

441
00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:04,600
Speaker 2: the people who made this movie possible, all the thousands

442
00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:06,960
Speaker 2: of people who worked on it, and the CGI babies.

443
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:09,960
Speaker 2: I was like, this is objectively terrible, and I kind

444
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:13,679
Speaker 2: of love that many studio people and Tom Cruise somehow

445
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:16,359
Speaker 2: thought this was possible. And I kind of like it

446
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:19,400
Speaker 2: almost like passes into camp that people were talking about

447
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:21,400
Speaker 2: this being the greatest movie of all time and there's

448
00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:25,280
Speaker 2: like CGI babies being put in microwaves. But then when

449
00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:28,480
Speaker 2: they did this like nod nod, wink wink joke.

450
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:29,320
Speaker 1: I didn't like that.

451
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:31,639
Speaker 2: It was quite gross. And also for me, I was like,

452
00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:35,480
Speaker 2: is this a joke about how Warner Brothers like didn't

453
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:38,520
Speaker 2: help Ezra because they're like the Justice League is still

454
00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:40,560
Speaker 2: working on that, and the implication is like, well, Ezra

455
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:43,640
Speaker 2: didn't get that help, right, I just it was really

456
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:45,159
Speaker 2: gross and I know they must have done that on

457
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:48,160
Speaker 2: a reshoot. There's just no way that that joke would

458
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:49,080
Speaker 2: have been in there before.

459
00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:52,040
Speaker 1: Well either way, right, I've thought about this too. Let's

460
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:54,119
Speaker 1: say it was in the original kind of out. The

461
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:59,199
Speaker 1: decision to leave it in is clearly one that is

462
00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:05,639
Speaker 1: based on a acknowledgement of Ezra's legal issues in the world,

463
00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:09,879
Speaker 1: because that's the only if the surely people flag that

464
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:12,880
Speaker 1: line as Ezra's shoes unfolding and somebody would have gone,

465
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:14,560
Speaker 1: do we want to do this? And I think the

466
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:17,439
Speaker 1: decision to go, if indeed it was in the original script,

467
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:20,199
Speaker 1: to go forward with it, is like, hey, let's you know,

468
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:22,800
Speaker 1: let's say that we get it. It's like it's like

469
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:24,679
Speaker 1: Tom wamscans, you know, we hear for you.

470
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:29,600
Speaker 2: It feels like, oh, we hear the big succession move.

471
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:32,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, it feels like, hey, let's show people that we

472
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:35,879
Speaker 1: get it. We understand that this is Hey, we know

473
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,320
Speaker 1: we're not sticking our heads in the sand. We we

474
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:41,600
Speaker 1: understand that you've heard all about this and we want

475
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:44,240
Speaker 1: to let you know that we we hear for you,

476
00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:47,359
Speaker 1: and we understand that that's the only way that you

477
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:49,480
Speaker 1: go forward with this. And it just felt really weird

478
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:50,680
Speaker 1: to me. It's really weird.

479
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:54,720
Speaker 2: And also it's Ezra talking to camera, so it's the

480
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:58,439
Speaker 2: joke is to the audience as well. Like ver I was,

481
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:00,399
Speaker 2: I was not a big fan, and then luckily they

482
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:02,800
Speaker 2: distracted me with the Batman that kind of comes up next,

483
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:05,880
Speaker 2: you know, gets see Jeremy Irons again as Alfred, which

484
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:08,560
Speaker 2: I think is such a brilliant cost thing like love that.

485
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:11,640
Speaker 1: So, yeah, you spoke about Andy. I want to talk

486
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:15,240
Speaker 1: about Andy Muschetti, director of it. He's supposed to direct

487
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:19,480
Speaker 1: Brave in the Bold, as you mentioned, that's the apology movie, right, Yes, allegedly.

488
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 1: I don't know this for a fact, but I will

489
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:24,880
Speaker 1: say that I think when you get a person who

490
00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:29,800
Speaker 1: comes in and is a good soldier right and takes

491
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:37,200
Speaker 1: on a absolutely haunted cursus Poltergeist production that is beset by

492
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:43,000
Speaker 1: wild issues with its star that cannot be replaced because

493
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:47,720
Speaker 1: they are in essentially every shot of the movie, every

494
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 1: single shot. I would say six percent of the movie

495
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:55,399
Speaker 1: they are in. I think you got a let them

496
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:57,280
Speaker 1: do brave in the bold and I think Andy did.

497
00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:00,960
Speaker 1: I think he did a really good job. Great for Batman.

498
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 1: CG issues aside, and listen, I don't like the CG.

499
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:07,280
Speaker 1: Was it weird? Yes, I thought there were some weird

500
00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:11,679
Speaker 1: design choices. Obviously, people worked extremely hard and CG and

501
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:12,240
Speaker 1: they did.

502
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:15,679
Speaker 2: According to Andy Maschetti, that was a design choice. So

503
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:17,159
Speaker 2: I just want to say, I think it was the

504
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 2: wrong choice. But this was not a case allegedly according

505
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:22,720
Speaker 2: to the studio, which you know, take it with a

506
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 2: pinch of salt. This was allegedly a choice rather than

507
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:28,760
Speaker 2: a crunch issue or a timing issue. So people worked

508
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 2: really hard to do what the studio asked them to

509
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 2: make it look this way.

510
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:36,600
Speaker 1: You know, chaos spreads and influences everything, and we've got

511
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:40,600
Speaker 1: a production that is this chaotic. It's not perhaps surprising

512
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:43,600
Speaker 1: that that some of it would reach the screen. And

513
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:46,439
Speaker 1: it's I guess you know, your mileage may vary if

514
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 1: you if you perceive the shortcomings in the cg to

515
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:54,399
Speaker 1: be an effect of that chaos. But I will say

516
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 1: the fact that so little of that chaos reached the

517
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,879
Speaker 1: screen is a credit to everyone who worked on the

518
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:05,640
Speaker 1: film in Andy like that did good job, because it's

519
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:08,800
Speaker 1: incredible that you made a cohesive film out of that. Now,

520
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:12,760
Speaker 1: the Batmen, I also loved the Batman. I thought the

521
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:16,679
Speaker 1: Batman were great. A small change here in which Michael Keaton,

522
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:21,920
Speaker 1: unlike in Flashpoint, plays Bruce Wayne alternate version Bruce Wayne,

523
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 1: not Thomas Wayn.

524
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 2: I do want to say that was a big question

525
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,119
Speaker 2: I had same Why not just be Thomas Wayne.

526
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:30,160
Speaker 1: I don't get it. I understand they wanted.

527
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:32,960
Speaker 2: It to be like it's nineteen eighty nine Batman, but that,

528
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:36,199
Speaker 2: I will say in the Cannon causes a problem because

529
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:38,600
Speaker 2: if you did not know this now, I want to say,

530
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:40,200
Speaker 2: I feel like, if you listen to this podcast, do

531
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 2: you think that I'm like a huge arrow Verse Stan

532
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 2: That is not the case. The arrow Verse has been

533
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 2: very hit and miss for me, but I appreciate the

534
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:47,920
Speaker 2: impact it had.

535
00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:49,200
Speaker 1: On the same access.

536
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:52,280
Speaker 2: I am also a comic book story. You know, we

537
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 2: had like the Legends of Tomorrow. That's the show I've

538
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 2: actually watched all of them, thought was really brilliant, especially

539
00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:00,199
Speaker 2: from like the third season on, but generally not a

540
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:03,680
Speaker 2: huge like passion of mine aside from the impact it had.

541
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:06,919
Speaker 2: But in the canon of the original Flash series, the

542
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:10,040
Speaker 2: original Arrow series, those are set in the same world

543
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:13,480
Speaker 2: as Keaton's nineteen eighty nine like, there are references to

544
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:15,320
Speaker 2: that that was always the way it was meant to be,

545
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,280
Speaker 2: So this then again brings up that canon issue of

546
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:20,719
Speaker 2: where is Barry if this is the same universe. I

547
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,399
Speaker 2: did think it was really interesting that he wasn't playing Thomas.

548
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 2: I think that would have been an easy, fine, cool fixed.

549
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:28,119
Speaker 2: I don't think it would have taken away from the

550
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:30,680
Speaker 2: nostalgia because it's still Keaton, and I just think it

551
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:31,440
Speaker 2: would have been cool.

552
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 1: I think the idea is, you know, look no further

553
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 1: than in Fast X for a film in which decisions

554
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 1: are made that you then get locked into for a franchise. Yeah,

555
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 1: I think they didn't want to lock into a world

556
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 1: in which Michael Keaton is Thomas Wayne forever in case

557
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 1: they want to bring him back, or a world in

558
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:54,040
Speaker 1: which he's Thomas Wayne and then all of a sudden

559
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:56,000
Speaker 1: he's Bruce Wayne and you kind of have to explain

560
00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 1: it to the audience. I mean it's a past. Yeah,

561
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:00,160
Speaker 1: I think this was the path of least resistance and

562
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 1: I get it. I let's talk about the babies. Okay,

563
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:08,720
Speaker 1: So this okay, So Andy has been asked about the babies.

564
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 1: There's a spoiler. There's a sequence early in the film

565
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 1: in which Batman ben Affleck. Batman needs the Flash's help

566
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 1: and he's called everyone else, but they're all busy, and

567
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 1: so Barry has to go help Batman and he has

568
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 1: to save all these babies from this hospital that is

569
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 1: like crumbling into a sink call. And the babies look bizarre.

570
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 1: I don't like, there's no way. They look very very strange,

571
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 1: like overly smooth and with.

572
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 2: If you've seen Twilight, they look like the baby from Twilight.

573
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 2: They over emote, they are very obviously fake, and they

574
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:50,280
Speaker 2: look I will say, this is fair, I think from

575
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:52,800
Speaker 2: Andy's said, it's supposed to look this way. So I

576
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:56,080
Speaker 2: mean they look like scratched. They don't look like it's finished.

577
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 2: A lot of people who saw this at cinema, Coon,

578
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 2: et cetera, was like, this isn't the Fini version, Like

579
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 2: obviously it's going to be a launch review screenings, people

580
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 2: thought that it wasn't going to be the finished version,

581
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:08,600
Speaker 2: and that was kind of the messaging that they were

582
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:11,840
Speaker 2: very interesting or that they were sharing. I think that

583
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 2: was more just like their presumption because of the way

584
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:14,320
Speaker 2: it looked.

585
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 1: But that was if you go on letterbox.

586
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:18,440
Speaker 2: A lot of people who saw the previous screenings in

587
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 2: the lead up to the release were like, obviously, this

588
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:21,240
Speaker 2: isn't the finished version.

589
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 1: It can't be.

590
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:24,280
Speaker 2: It's the same version they were showing at Cinema Con.

591
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 2: It's the same version. This was a choice. I don't

592
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 2: understand it. Well, yeah, say Andy, because I think this

593
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:32,120
Speaker 2: is very interesting.

594
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:34,480
Speaker 1: Yeah. Here's his quote. The idea, of course, is we

595
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:36,760
Speaker 1: are in the perspective of the Flash, so when Flash

596
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 1: is accessing the speed force and using his powers. Yes,

597
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 1: what Andy is then saying is you're seeing things as

598
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:46,000
Speaker 1: the Flash seees them. So he continues quote, everything is

599
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 1: distorted in terms of light and textures. We enter this

600
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 1: water world, which is basically being in Barry's POV. It

601
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 1: was part of the design. So if it looks a

602
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 1: little weird to you, that was intended.

603
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 2: I hate to be a guy who is picking apart

604
00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 2: this answer because I love. I love the commitment head

605
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 2: to support the vision. I think it's a I think

606
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:05,360
Speaker 2: it's really cool to support the CG artist like this,

607
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 2: Like this has not turned into some chaotic Marvel esque fallout,

608
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:11,560
Speaker 2: even though as many people have pointed out, and I

609
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 2: don't disagree, I do think the CG and this is

610
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 2: worse than the CG in Man Quantumania by like quite

611
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:18,960
Speaker 2: a far, a far reach.

612
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:20,320
Speaker 1: I think that that's hercuous.

613
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:24,560
Speaker 2: But like so I will say something here because this,

614
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 2: this quote specifically, my understanding is about the CG in

615
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 2: general and very specifically one of the things that this

616
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:33,960
Speaker 2: movie does. Okay, I'm gonna do like a one sentence

617
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:35,760
Speaker 2: description of the movie, so if you haven't seen it,

618
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 2: you don't understand. Barry goes back in time to save

619
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:43,239
Speaker 2: his mum. To do that, he accesses something that in

620
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 2: the movie they call the Chrono Bowl, which in the

621
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 2: comics we would call the cosmic treadmill, and that is

622
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 2: where he essentially accesses the speed force, and he finds

623
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 2: an area that looks kind of like a zoe trope,

624
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 2: you know, the old way they used to show movies

625
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:58,720
Speaker 2: and moving images, and in there he can travel through time.

626
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 2: Now doing that causes a new timeline. That's where he

627
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 2: meets Batman. That's where he meets Sasha Karl's Supergirl. SOD

628
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 2: comes back and they have to defeat them together, and

629
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:09,040
Speaker 2: eventually he has to go back fix it, let his

630
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 2: mum die, and the movie's over.

631
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:12,240
Speaker 1: So that's what happens.

632
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:15,240
Speaker 2: But the Crona Bowl is the big issue with CG

633
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:18,160
Speaker 2: in my opinion, and this is what Andy's talking about,

634
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 2: because when you go in there looks like a SIMS game.

635
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 1: It does. That to me was weirder than the babies

636
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 1: the cron Bowl because it's so much info and you're

637
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 1: in there so much, it looks like a you know

638
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:32,160
Speaker 1: what it looks like? To me, it looked like a

639
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 1: like an iTunes screensaver, exactly like a visualizer.

640
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 2: Yes, it looks like a visualizer, but instead of nice

641
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:44,400
Speaker 2: calming images, it is people right and moments from the

642
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 2: film but rendered in.

643
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 1: It's a horrifying mushroom trip.

644
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:50,840
Speaker 2: Yes, it's a horrifying mushroom trip. And you spend a

645
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 2: lot of the movie in there and you wish that

646
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:56,680
Speaker 2: you didn't. So I think Andy's defense and explanation of

647
00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 2: the CG works in that framework. Because you are in

648
00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 2: the cronable is in Barry's perspective. But I will say

649
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:05,800
Speaker 2: at the beginning, even when Barry is not in the

650
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:07,960
Speaker 2: speed force and he's pulling a baby out the microwave

651
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 2: in the normal time, the baby still look funck.

652
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 1: I will also say that listen again, the effects people

653
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:17,080
Speaker 1: worked very hard on this, I'm sure, but I think

654
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 1: that it's not uncommon for reshoots, particularly VFX reshoots, to

655
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:23,960
Speaker 1: like be happening late, late, late, late late in the game.

656
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 1: I'm sure at a certain point, when you're already over budget,

657
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 1: potentially hitting the half billion mark, a lot of that

658
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:32,920
Speaker 1: is going to your star because of their litany of

659
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 1: very very serious legal issues. Yeah, at a certain point,

660
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:39,320
Speaker 1: it's like that's where all the money goes, you know

661
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 1: what I mean, Like you're just not, hey, do we

662
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 1: have X amount to like do some tweaks on the

663
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 1: kronabl No. Yeah, Like I don't know that that happened,

664
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:52,400
Speaker 1: but it feels like that's probably what happened.

665
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 2: I don't see a world where you spend four years

666
00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 2: making this movie and visualizing this movie and crafting these

667
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 2: big fight scenes and these emotional beats, and you see

668
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 2: the Crona Bowl and you think, yeah, people are gonna

669
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:08,920
Speaker 2: love that, Like that's gonna sell our story. I just

670
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:09,440
Speaker 2: I don't.

671
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:10,600
Speaker 1: I don't see it.

672
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:15,799
Speaker 2: I was constantly pretty shocked every time we were in

673
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 2: there that that was a choice. It was so weird,

674
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 2: and yeah, it was not. It was not something that

675
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 2: worked visually for me. And it definitely gave me the

676
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:29,280
Speaker 2: feeling of like like a two thousands like cut scene

677
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:30,719
Speaker 2: from like a PC game.

678
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:34,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very the Mummy. Oh yeah, yeah, definitely Scorpion

679
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,960
Speaker 1: King energy. Yeah. Now, there are elements of this movie

680
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:41,239
Speaker 1: that I really liked, again Batman, I liked a Supergirl

681
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:43,319
Speaker 1: Sasha Karl I thought was great. Was she'd been in

682
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:45,959
Speaker 1: it more? Was she'd been in it more? I did?

683
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:49,239
Speaker 1: Here's an issue where you feel like, okay, here's where

684
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:54,360
Speaker 1: they ran out of money for stuff? Spoiler The battle

685
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:58,239
Speaker 1: against Zod just kind of what happened? I don't know.

686
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 1: Did we did we win? Did we not win? I

687
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:02,080
Speaker 1: think you didn't win.

688
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:05,239
Speaker 2: I think the flesh just left, the flash left, and

689
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:06,800
Speaker 2: then Supergirl gets murdered.

690
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 1: In my mind's eye as I recall this, it's really

691
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 1: kind of ambiguous. Is what then happens with that big battle.

692
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:15,960
Speaker 1: It just kind of like Peters Out. Okay, I think

693
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:16,359
Speaker 1: this is.

694
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:18,279
Speaker 2: The biggest issue for me for this movie compared to

695
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:21,120
Speaker 2: say a movie like venom Let there Be Carnage right

696
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:23,160
Speaker 2: now that we both had a lot of fun like

697
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:25,920
Speaker 2: talking about how crazy that movie was and how it was.

698
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 1: Just like one movie.

699
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 2: But I'm gonna tell you, yeah, venom Let there be carnage.

700
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:34,400
Speaker 2: That is ninety minutes of pure entertainment. That piecing never stops.

701
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:36,719
Speaker 2: You know what's happening, you know who wins, you know

702
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:39,160
Speaker 2: who loses. I will tell you guys something if you

703
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 2: haven't seen the Flash the first hour, there are no

704
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:45,880
Speaker 2: other main characters than two Ezra Miller's playing Barry Allen.

705
00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 2: It is an hour until Michael Keaton comes into the

706
00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 2: movie and then you meet Sasha kh and then there

707
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 2: is a battle with Odd. I feel like the pacing

708
00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:58,960
Speaker 2: in this movie does not It didn't work for me,

709
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:01,120
Speaker 2: and there's Ooda is part of it. Now, I'm going

710
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:03,399
Speaker 2: to tell you the biggest issue I think with all

711
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:06,640
Speaker 2: of this, aside from the stuff we've talked about, CG. Ezra,

712
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:10,759
Speaker 2: the biggest issue is this is a flashpoint movie where

713
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:12,840
Speaker 2: over the years they have been told or they have

714
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:16,600
Speaker 2: chosen to not adapt Flashpoint, and that is the problem.

715
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:17,919
Speaker 1: There are multiple issues here.

716
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:22,879
Speaker 2: The Zodd battle, it basically becomes irrelevant because Barry has

717
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:26,560
Speaker 2: to come into conflict with his younger self, and then

718
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:28,839
Speaker 2: they have to go to the Cronabowl and have the

719
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:31,440
Speaker 2: real battle, which is between Barry and what they call

720
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:35,160
Speaker 2: Dark Flash, which is Barry's younger self who's been stuck

721
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:36,040
Speaker 2: in the Crona Bowl.

722
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:38,919
Speaker 1: This is where I thought Grant Gustin would have loved

723
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:39,320
Speaker 1: to see it.

724
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:42,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, But like the problem is, as we will talk

725
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:46,560
Speaker 2: about in the Flashpoint Omnibus, they miss the cyclical nature

726
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 2: and the holistic story of the Flash. You cannot have

727
00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:53,479
Speaker 2: the Flash without the reverse Flash. There is a very

728
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:57,959
Speaker 2: now quite infamous interview or quote from Andy Masha where

729
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:01,120
Speaker 2: somebody says, so, who killed Barry's mum And he says, well,

730
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:02,759
Speaker 2: I guess it was Reverse Flash.

731
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 1: What do you mean you guessed? Like that doesn't make

732
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 1: you call it it was reverse Flash.

733
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:08,800
Speaker 2: That's what happens in the comics. But like in the movie,

734
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:10,279
Speaker 2: there is an ambiguity here.

735
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 1: They kind of do the reverse Flash thing in which

736
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:14,320
Speaker 1: they call it the Dark Flash.

737
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:16,879
Speaker 2: But it's like, but that's not who killed Barry's mom.

738
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:19,800
Speaker 2: That's Young Flash who gets stuck in the speed Force.

739
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:22,120
Speaker 1: Right right, right. But I'm saying they kind of they

740
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 1: kind of do their version of the kills Barry's mom

741
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:29,920
Speaker 1: is that Dark Flash pushes Barry out of the example,

742
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:35,520
Speaker 1: causing him to enter the world in which Barry, who

743
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 1: will become Dark Flash, gets his powers because that's the

744
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:41,239
Speaker 1: world where no superheroes are.

745
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:43,759
Speaker 2: And that's kind of again, it's like this loose adaptation,

746
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:47,840
Speaker 2: whereas in Flashpoint you learn that Reverse Flash knocked Barry

747
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:51,000
Speaker 2: out of the Speed Force because he wanted to create

748
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:53,239
Speaker 2: himself into like a paradox that Barry would never be.

749
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 2: He needed to create himself, right, yeah, and he wanted

750
00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:57,879
Speaker 2: and he wanted to create a paradox well where Barry

751
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 2: could never kill him and he could exist without Barry

752
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:02,000
Speaker 2: because he's never been able to exist without Barry.

753
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:04,600
Speaker 1: I felt like the lack.

754
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:09,239
Speaker 2: Of the easy linear storyline of Flashpoint, which is kind

755
00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:11,160
Speaker 2: of this, it's a line, but it's a circle and

756
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:14,280
Speaker 2: everything's connected. That to me was one of the weirdest things,

757
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 2: Like there's no conversation here about who the Reverse Flash is,

758
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:21,200
Speaker 2: why they want to kill Barry's mom. What that has

759
00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:24,000
Speaker 2: to do with anything. We end up with this dark

760
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:26,600
Speaker 2: you know, I hate that where the dark stuff is evil,

761
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:29,400
Speaker 2: but we end up with dark Flash instead of reverse Flash,

762
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:31,600
Speaker 2: and that comes at the end, and they haven't really

763
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:32,880
Speaker 2: been a conflict throughout.

764
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 1: Zod doesn't get defeated.

765
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:38,200
Speaker 2: He just kills Supergirl and leaves, leaving him open, I guess,

766
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 2: to be a different villain. But I feel like that

767
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:43,880
Speaker 2: third act struggles from those choices to not just directly

768
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:44,880
Speaker 2: adapt Flashpoint.

769
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:47,160
Speaker 1: I understand why they made a lot of these choices,

770
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:48,640
Speaker 1: but I think one of the things that I think

771
00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:51,480
Speaker 1: is really cool about Flashpoint the comic is that like

772
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:55,080
Speaker 1: it just drops Barry into a world where like his

773
00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:58,399
Speaker 1: mom is alive, like he's just at work, and then

774
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:00,359
Speaker 1: his mom is there and he's like that's I think,

775
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:04,799
Speaker 1: did this is it? I thought that because I think

776
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:07,640
Speaker 1: some of the heaviest lifting that this movie does is

777
00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:13,120
Speaker 1: the work to make you care about Barry's parents, And

778
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:16,120
Speaker 1: it's a lot of work in one movie, Like you

779
00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:20,600
Speaker 1: don't see them previously, and I think from you know,

780
00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 1: your mileage may vary again, And I'm not a big

781
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:27,320
Speaker 1: time Hollywood writer, director, but I do think it would

782
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 1: have been quicker and faster, sorry for the pun to

783
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:34,280
Speaker 1: just drop. Flash Flash wakes up and his mom's alive,

784
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:36,920
Speaker 1: and what the fuck is going on? What happened? And

785
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:38,600
Speaker 1: now he's got to try and figure it out.

786
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:41,879
Speaker 2: I think that is the best thing, because, as we'll

787
00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:46,680
Speaker 2: get into in Flashpoint, the biggest mystery, yeah in Flashpoint

788
00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:49,000
Speaker 2: is who is to blame for changing?

789
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:51,520
Speaker 1: How can this happen? And you assume it's.

790
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:53,920
Speaker 2: Reverse Flash, and you get and you fight and you

791
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:57,400
Speaker 2: Barry teams up with Thomas Wayne and they're fighting this

792
00:39:57,480 --> 00:39:59,680
Speaker 2: great villain and then as this movie reveals in the

793
00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:01,080
Speaker 2: first fifteen.

794
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:02,360
Speaker 1: Minutes, it's Barry.

795
00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:06,240
Speaker 2: And that was a huge game changing reveal that felt

796
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:09,680
Speaker 2: so shocking. And I think if this film had trusted

797
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:13,200
Speaker 2: the audience a bit more and allowed them to go

798
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:16,600
Speaker 2: on that journey, have that mystery, and have Barry have

799
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:18,879
Speaker 2: that realization, maybe even they would have wanted to blame

800
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:21,560
Speaker 2: it on Dark Flash instead of Barry. I think there's

801
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:23,839
Speaker 2: a version of that that would have worked. I think

802
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 2: the half flash point of it all is part of

803
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:29,319
Speaker 2: why it didn't necessarily connect. I saw a lot of

804
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:32,040
Speaker 2: people online who didn't understand why Thomas Wayne wasn't in it,

805
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:37,120
Speaker 2: who didn't understand why the Aquaman and Wonder Woman's storylines

806
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:40,480
Speaker 2: weren't even like vaguely adapted from the comic. I think

807
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:44,520
Speaker 2: that the legend of it being a Flashpoint adaptation had

808
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 2: lived longer than the reality.

809
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:49,600
Speaker 1: Yeah. I do think very clearly there was you know,

810
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:54,120
Speaker 1: Ray Fisher, who's had his own issues with especially within

811
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:57,120
Speaker 1: the Warner brother studios, within the Warner Brothers studio system,

812
00:40:57,719 --> 00:41:00,200
Speaker 1: was supposed to be in this. Cyborg has a is

813
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:02,439
Speaker 1: a pretty big part in the Flashpoint comic. We won't

814
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:04,239
Speaker 1: spoil that for you. We're gonna talk about that later.

815
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:08,320
Speaker 1: But my sense was there was a very clear direction

816
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 1: to move away from the Snyder verse as briskly as

817
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:18,440
Speaker 1: possible with this film. You know, once events in the

818
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:22,800
Speaker 1: wider Warner ecosystem happened with the you know, with Snyder

819
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:26,160
Speaker 1: moving on and the whole Snyder cut thing happening and

820
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:29,600
Speaker 1: fishing all out. So I think, you know, again, here's

821
00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:31,840
Speaker 1: the real world intruding on the stuff you see on

822
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:35,040
Speaker 1: the screen. The reason they're not in it is because

823
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:37,520
Speaker 1: it's unclear like how much of that stuff is going

824
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:39,320
Speaker 1: to carry over into what James Gunn is doing.

825
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:39,759
Speaker 2: Yeah.

826
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:40,919
Speaker 1: I think that's a really good point.

827
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 2: And I guess like as we come to kind of

828
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:46,000
Speaker 2: the end of the movie, which we haven't really talked about,

829
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:48,399
Speaker 2: the big thing that everyone was talking about, that kind

830
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:52,960
Speaker 2: of comes into it even more because originally from the

831
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:56,720
Speaker 2: reporting that has come out, and the original ending would

832
00:41:56,719 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 2: have seen Barry fix the speed Force, fix the time line,

833
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:06,479
Speaker 2: and at the end, Michael Keaton's Batman and Sasha Carl

834
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:09,960
Speaker 2: would have been there, and that would have shown that

835
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:12,319
Speaker 2: Barry thought he fixed it, but actually he didn't, which

836
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:14,279
Speaker 2: is what happens in the flashpoint comic leading to the

837
00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:16,560
Speaker 2: you know, the New fifty two, and that would have

838
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:19,880
Speaker 2: shown that those characters would have continued on. And apparently

839
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:22,839
Speaker 2: there was also a version. Boris kitt the Hollywood Report

840
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 2: did a great report on the three different endings. There

841
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:27,400
Speaker 2: was also going to be a version where Carville was

842
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:29,520
Speaker 2: going to be there with them, and Gal Gadot was

843
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:30,920
Speaker 2: going to be there with them, and that would have

844
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:33,680
Speaker 2: been well, Carvill's coming back. We saw him in Black Adam,

845
00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:35,000
Speaker 2: and he's going to be back, and we're going to

846
00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:37,720
Speaker 2: have this combined universe where they're going to introduce people

847
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:40,960
Speaker 2: like Keaton, but we'll still have that Justice League that

848
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:44,320
Speaker 2: we know. And then the ending that we get instead

849
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:47,640
Speaker 2: has George Clooney step out of the car, which is

850
00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 2: really fun and I you know, I'm a big fan

851
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:52,759
Speaker 2: of that, but that was for film six months ago

852
00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:56,279
Speaker 2: and was very much under the James Gun regime. So

853
00:42:56,400 --> 00:43:00,399
Speaker 2: that kind of really I think confirms what you're saying. Also,

854
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:03,239
Speaker 2: so the big thing we haven't talked about which absolutely

855
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:04,799
Speaker 2: did not work for me, and I actually have quite

856
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:07,799
Speaker 2: some moral issues with how'd you feel about those cameos

857
00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:10,440
Speaker 2: which ones in the chronobol.

858
00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:13,759
Speaker 1: Oh so including so okay, yeah, so we get okay,

859
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:17,279
Speaker 1: good point. Actually we get which woods. So we get

860
00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:18,240
Speaker 1: wonder Woman Galgano.

861
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:20,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, she comes, she helps the very brief we also

862
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:24,360
Speaker 2: get to Mura Morrison's Tom Curry. We see him on

863
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:27,240
Speaker 2: the phone and in that world Arthur was never born,

864
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:29,840
Speaker 2: which is very interesting. It ties into the final.

865
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:31,480
Speaker 1: Stingers of the movie.

866
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:35,800
Speaker 2: But in the Speed Force we as Dark Flash is

867
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:38,759
Speaker 2: running around, they kind of do a cataclysm esque thing.

868
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:41,719
Speaker 1: They do an a normally esque thing from spite of us,

869
00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:44,959
Speaker 1: and it's in the Chrono Bawl. Verry is seeing all

870
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 1: these different worlds Now is really getting to like look

871
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:48,280
Speaker 1: into the world.

872
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:50,000
Speaker 2: I guess they don't really explain it, but it looks

873
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:52,359
Speaker 2: like they're all going to collide into each other because

874
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:54,160
Speaker 2: of dark Flash running through the speed force.

875
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:56,160
Speaker 1: Sure, but this is where you get.

876
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 2: Those big cameos that they'd kind of been hyping up

877
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:00,960
Speaker 2: that they were definitely leaking. We were hearing people talk

878
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:04,480
Speaker 2: about from the previous greetings and they're all like deep

879
00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:09,040
Speaker 2: fake nightmares in my opinion, including some that are literally

880
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:12,879
Speaker 2: like necromancy from.

881
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 1: Oh, from bringing back from the day Now. Yeah, this

882
00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:19,200
Speaker 1: is a larger issue that is moral issues. This is

883
00:44:19,239 --> 00:44:21,200
Speaker 1: a larger moral issue that's going to become ever more

884
00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:25,880
Speaker 1: present with the evolution of technology like mid Journey and

885
00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:30,240
Speaker 1: the ability to like bring formally deceased actors back using

886
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:32,680
Speaker 1: their likeness. We've seen it, you know, in Rogue one

887
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:37,239
Speaker 1: with talking and we've seen it in commercials. I think

888
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:40,720
Speaker 1: that this is an issue of obviously like evolving law,

889
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:45,239
Speaker 1: And here's my issue with it. I think today, if

890
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:47,799
Speaker 1: I was an actor today and I was signing contracts

891
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:50,480
Speaker 1: and I like getting all the protections for my image

892
00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:54,279
Speaker 1: and likeness, then I'd feel protected on that legal front

893
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:56,920
Speaker 1: and then I'd have a conversation with my family the

894
00:44:57,160 --> 00:45:01,399
Speaker 1: aka the estate where I'd say, hey, I'm okay with this.

895
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:04,879
Speaker 1: Here is what I want for the future. I either

896
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:07,960
Speaker 1: want or don't want my likeness used for this, that

897
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:11,880
Speaker 1: and the other, and that's I think that that is

898
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:14,759
Speaker 1: probably gonna be standard and is something that's fine. I

899
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:18,480
Speaker 1: do have an issue with actors who passed away decades ago,

900
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:22,879
Speaker 1: had no idea about this technology, and who now are

901
00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:27,800
Speaker 1: being you know, resuscitated onto the screen in a project

902
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:30,279
Speaker 1: that they could not have even en vision. Now. I

903
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:32,880
Speaker 1: guess there's an upside in which, you know, the family

904
00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:36,320
Speaker 1: has a nice payday, I guess hopefully, but it feels

905
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:39,200
Speaker 1: off to me. It does feel weird because consent of

906
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:41,560
Speaker 1: the person should matter. Yeah, I think as well.

907
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:44,240
Speaker 2: I think the reason that people have reacted so badly

908
00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:46,120
Speaker 2: to it online, and I think the reason that it

909
00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:48,759
Speaker 2: didn't sit well with me is one. So the way

910
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:51,400
Speaker 2: that they showcase them right is almost like a like

911
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:53,600
Speaker 2: a movie reel, and it kind of like a like

912
00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:57,040
Speaker 2: a film reel going around a world visually like whatever.

913
00:45:57,400 --> 00:46:00,360
Speaker 2: But you know what, you could have just used lips

914
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:01,960
Speaker 2: from the show from the originales.

915
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:03,320
Speaker 1: I think that would have worked.

916
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:07,319
Speaker 2: You know, Adam Western, butt Ward, they loved their roles

917
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:09,279
Speaker 2: in Batman. That was something they were so proud of.

918
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:11,239
Speaker 2: So in that way, I feel like that kind of

919
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:14,560
Speaker 2: sits quite well. But as people online were pointing out,

920
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:17,040
Speaker 2: you know, George Reeves, who you see, as you know,

921
00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:21,960
Speaker 2: he played Cereals, he killed himself And one of the

922
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:24,120
Speaker 2: reasons that he killed himself was from the way that

923
00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:26,120
Speaker 2: people report about it nowadays, was because he was so

924
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:30,120
Speaker 2: depressed about being typecast as Superman, and the movie was

925
00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:33,439
Speaker 2: released on the anniversary of his suicide. According to many

926
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:35,520
Speaker 2: angry people on the internet.

927
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:37,640
Speaker 1: Now, George Reeves played by Ben Affleck in the movie

928
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:40,160
Speaker 1: Hollywood Land about yeah, this.

929
00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:43,400
Speaker 2: This kind of story, you know, And of course Warner

930
00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:46,120
Speaker 2: Brothers did not drop the movie on that day to

931
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:48,080
Speaker 2: do something cruel to George Reeves.

932
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:51,440
Speaker 1: But there is a lack of thought there that to.

933
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:54,440
Speaker 2: People who care about that actor, who care about that story,

934
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:58,680
Speaker 2: it felt very cruel. Also, the one that I thought

935
00:46:58,719 --> 00:47:02,240
Speaker 2: was quite shocking to me was to see them CG.

936
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:06,120
Speaker 2: Christopher Reeves as Superman, and not only cghim, but CG.

937
00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:09,680
Speaker 2: Him's standing up now Christopher Reeves after he was paralyzed,

938
00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:15,240
Speaker 2: became a very big advocate for disability rights, people used wheelchairs,

939
00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:18,640
Speaker 2: and he even had a cameo in Smallville where they

940
00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:21,799
Speaker 2: had him with his breathing tube in the wheelchair because

941
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:24,000
Speaker 2: he wanted to be represented that way. And quite a

942
00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:26,520
Speaker 2: few people online have pointed out that he, while he

943
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:29,440
Speaker 2: was alive, didn't want people to reuse odd footage of

944
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:32,319
Speaker 2: him when he wasn't paralyzed, because he wanted people to

945
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:35,160
Speaker 2: remember him how he was. I thought that was an

946
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:38,200
Speaker 2: example of a lack of thought that went into this.

947
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:41,239
Speaker 2: Also Helen Slater, who played Supergirl in the much line

948
00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:45,960
Speaker 2: but very fun Supergirl movie, She's still alive. Why wasn't

949
00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:50,920
Speaker 2: she brought into the movie in some useful, impactful way,

950
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:53,520
Speaker 2: or even just seeing kind of sitting sipping a coffee

951
00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:56,160
Speaker 2: in Metropolis at her age. There was a lack of

952
00:47:56,239 --> 00:47:59,280
Speaker 2: humanity in those cameos. I felt like even Nick Cage,

953
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:02,160
Speaker 2: I love Nick k Superman lives one of the greatest,

954
00:48:02,239 --> 00:48:06,000
Speaker 2: never made me. Yes, I own photographs of Nick Cage

955
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:08,400
Speaker 2: in that suit. I want to see that movie. I

956
00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:11,080
Speaker 2: was so excited to hear he was gonna be in it.

957
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:14,080
Speaker 2: To me, I was shocked when I learned that they'd

958
00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:16,560
Speaker 2: actually recreated the suit, as Andy Machette said, and they

959
00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 2: put him in it because he was so deaged, he

960
00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:21,960
Speaker 2: was so cg that I just assumed it was another

961
00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:25,160
Speaker 2: kind of deep fake version. It didn't feel like they

962
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:27,279
Speaker 2: had bought Nick Cage in and given him that role.

963
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:29,920
Speaker 2: So for me, the cameos were something where if the

964
00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:32,440
Speaker 2: joke turned me against the mental health joke kind of

965
00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:34,400
Speaker 2: turned me against it by the end. Even if I

966
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:36,960
Speaker 2: was kind of into some of the characters, those cameos

967
00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:40,799
Speaker 2: they left me feeling quite like, ugh, like they gave

968
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:42,960
Speaker 2: me the itck, you know, like it was not a

969
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:45,520
Speaker 2: pleasant way to end the movie. Though obviously I love

970
00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:47,960
Speaker 2: George Clooney Batman, so thanks for that one. James gunn

971
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:50,480
Speaker 2: like when he came in, he was looking great, he

972
00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:51,640
Speaker 2: was fun.

973
00:48:51,719 --> 00:48:54,160
Speaker 1: I will say again, I do think that I don't

974
00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:56,319
Speaker 1: know the issues, the legal issue. I'm sure they had

975
00:48:56,320 --> 00:48:58,880
Speaker 1: to negotiate with somebody, but it does. They definitely did

976
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:04,759
Speaker 1: get apparent, they got family license. It still is. It's

977
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:08,840
Speaker 1: definitely weird. And I will say that you also didn't

978
00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:09,200
Speaker 1: need it.

979
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:09,960
Speaker 2: You didn't need it.

980
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:11,640
Speaker 1: You didn't really need it in.

981
00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:15,040
Speaker 2: The movie either. I didn't feel like there was a

982
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:19,600
Speaker 2: cataclysm or a multiversal collapse that was gonna happen where

983
00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:20,480
Speaker 2: you needed to see it.

984
00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:23,440
Speaker 1: I feel like the intimacy that they created.

985
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:25,320
Speaker 2: In this smaller Yeah there was a z odd battle,

986
00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:27,279
Speaker 2: but it wasn't a huge deal. But that story I know,

987
00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:30,080
Speaker 2: for you, for super producer Chris, like the things that

988
00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:32,720
Speaker 2: hit was like Ezra and those emotion the emotional beats

989
00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:36,360
Speaker 2: that Barry had with his mum, you know the relationship

990
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:40,120
Speaker 2: between Batman and Barry ben Affleck as Batman getting to

991
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:42,960
Speaker 2: have this moment of saying, you need to explore this trauma.

992
00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:45,080
Speaker 2: You need to not hide from it or run away

993
00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:48,719
Speaker 2: from your past. The emotional intimate beats, that was what

994
00:49:48,760 --> 00:49:51,400
Speaker 2: people cared about and what I saw people saying that

995
00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:53,600
Speaker 2: they loved. I don't think you needed that. I think

996
00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:57,480
Speaker 2: that to me reeks of like execs who saw No

997
00:49:57,520 --> 00:49:59,239
Speaker 2: Way Home was successful and were like.

998
00:49:59,200 --> 00:49:59,799
Speaker 1: We need that.

999
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:04,040
Speaker 2: Like it's so different to have a creepy, CGI deep

1000
00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:06,000
Speaker 2: fake of a dead pass and like looking over a

1001
00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:09,319
Speaker 2: universe and to have Andrew Garfield stepping through like a

1002
00:50:09,360 --> 00:50:10,280
Speaker 2: slingering pool.

1003
00:50:10,719 --> 00:50:13,680
Speaker 1: Here's how I think something like that happens. And I

1004
00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:15,880
Speaker 1: can see the logic behind it, even if I disagree

1005
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:19,120
Speaker 1: with the execution, and if an inclusion of course, of

1006
00:50:19,120 --> 00:50:23,479
Speaker 1: course in general, but I think the idea is, hey,

1007
00:50:24,040 --> 00:50:28,960
Speaker 1: we're Warner Brothers. We have this one hundred year legacy

1008
00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:34,359
Speaker 1: of film excellence, and as part of that, as part

1009
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:40,680
Speaker 1: of our lineage, is over half a century of a

1010
00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:46,040
Speaker 1: relationship with these iconic DC characters that stretches all the

1011
00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:49,640
Speaker 1: way back to the days of George Reeves and and

1012
00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:54,520
Speaker 1: Christopher Reeves and et cetera. And why not highlight it's

1013
00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:57,600
Speaker 1: isn't it a way to show how actually we're different

1014
00:50:57,600 --> 00:50:59,360
Speaker 1: than Marvel. They're kind of like the new kids on

1015
00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:02,359
Speaker 1: the block at us. We go back to the to

1016
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:08,320
Speaker 1: the forties with our you know, television executions of these characters,

1017
00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:12,240
Speaker 1: and it shows the breath in the history of Warner's

1018
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:15,160
Speaker 1: relationship with DC comics. I think that that is the

1019
00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:18,960
Speaker 1: logic of it. I agree. Do I think that it

1020
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:21,800
Speaker 1: should have been here? Probably not. I again, it felt

1021
00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:23,799
Speaker 1: superfluous to me. I don't think. I don't think you

1022
00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:24,359
Speaker 1: needed it.

1023
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:26,840
Speaker 2: You could have a moment where you're like showing a

1024
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:30,200
Speaker 2: George Reeves Superman serial on the TV and then have

1025
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:33,000
Speaker 2: ba Ben Affleck playing George Reeves talking to Barry like,

1026
00:51:33,040 --> 00:51:34,960
Speaker 2: there's different ways you can do it if you want

1027
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:37,160
Speaker 2: to do it, but I don't, like you said when

1028
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:39,480
Speaker 2: it happened, I actually had By that point, I was

1029
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:42,759
Speaker 2: like watching the movie, right, so I wasn't waiting for

1030
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:44,440
Speaker 2: the cameos, and when it happened, I was like, what

1031
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:45,520
Speaker 2: happened to me?

1032
00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:49,759
Speaker 1: The big head scratch with that kind of cavalcade of

1033
00:51:49,880 --> 00:51:52,680
Speaker 1: characters is like, where the fuck is Where's Wonder Woman?

1034
00:51:52,719 --> 00:51:57,960
Speaker 1: Where's Where's allegedly she got caught? Where's Linda Cars? I

1035
00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:01,680
Speaker 1: think why that was like a long running three seasons.

1036
00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:05,040
Speaker 1: I think a television show that was a big deal.

1037
00:52:05,360 --> 00:52:08,200
Speaker 2: And she was in Wonder Woman recently in the Wonder

1038
00:52:08,239 --> 00:52:10,720
Speaker 2: Woman too at the end, and she's still looking banging.

1039
00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:11,959
Speaker 2: She's still an icon.

1040
00:52:12,120 --> 00:52:15,799
Speaker 1: I'm very very bizarre to not have Wonder Woman in there.

1041
00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:18,359
Speaker 1: She's another person who I feel like could have shown

1042
00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:22,000
Speaker 1: up in person. You could put her in that suit. Nowadays,

1043
00:52:22,160 --> 00:52:24,839
Speaker 1: I've seen Linda Carr. She's still beautiful, like you could

1044
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:27,000
Speaker 1: have had her there. Linda Carr is kind of like

1045
00:52:27,040 --> 00:52:30,400
Speaker 1: the no brainer, right, like even like I'm not gonna

1046
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:32,680
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna be like, oh my god, they forgot

1047
00:52:32,719 --> 00:52:35,960
Speaker 1: George Reeves, but I am certainly like, where's Linda Carter?

1048
00:52:36,360 --> 00:52:39,080
Speaker 2: They still show every single week if you live in

1049
00:52:39,200 --> 00:52:40,800
Speaker 2: LA if you have a broadcast down tenor if you

1050
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:41,600
Speaker 2: don't have one, get one.

1051
00:52:41,640 --> 00:52:42,080
Speaker 1: They're great.

1052
00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:45,840
Speaker 2: Get amplified on tenor it's like thirty dollars Every Saturday morning.

1053
00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:49,920
Speaker 2: On Heroes and Icons they show and two episodes of

1054
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:54,200
Speaker 2: Bama sixty six and then they show episodes of Wonder

1055
00:52:54,239 --> 00:52:55,800
Speaker 2: Woman that still plays.

1056
00:52:55,840 --> 00:52:57,120
Speaker 1: People still watch that.

1057
00:52:57,239 --> 00:53:01,000
Speaker 2: Linda Carr is one of the most icon conic superhero

1058
00:53:01,080 --> 00:53:03,080
Speaker 2: actors of all time, so I agree that felt like

1059
00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:08,759
Speaker 2: a strange person to not include. Maybe Lindkarr didn't want

1060
00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:11,040
Speaker 2: to be a cged up like that. She might not

1061
00:53:11,080 --> 00:53:13,200
Speaker 2: want it to be daged. Who knows got it in.

1062
00:53:13,480 --> 00:53:15,640
Speaker 1: Would have been nice to see her. Hopefully we'll see

1063
00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:16,080
Speaker 1: her again.

1064
00:53:16,640 --> 00:53:20,799
Speaker 2: Why your final takeaways from the Flash? Now you've seen it,

1065
00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:23,040
Speaker 2: it's done, it's come out. It didn't make a lot

1066
00:53:23,040 --> 00:53:24,560
Speaker 2: of money. We didn't talk about that.

1067
00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:28,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like a very very average superhero film. Yes,

1068
00:53:29,040 --> 00:53:32,120
Speaker 1: there are some things as surprised at, like how some

1069
00:53:32,200 --> 00:53:35,359
Speaker 1: of the emotional beats really worked, you know, Barry and

1070
00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:41,360
Speaker 1: Bruce is fun. There are really fun moments there. I

1071
00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:45,880
Speaker 1: thought that the face off with Zod. I thought Sasha's

1072
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:52,719
Speaker 1: embodiment of Supergirl mm hmm it felt emotionally rich for

1073
00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:56,120
Speaker 1: how little of that is in the film. Mm hm.

1074
00:53:56,680 --> 00:53:58,480
Speaker 1: It was doing a lot with a little and really

1075
00:53:58,560 --> 00:54:00,360
Speaker 1: this is what really made me feel like, you know,

1076
00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:03,880
Speaker 1: we could have gone faster with the exposition about Barry's

1077
00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:06,439
Speaker 1: mom and family life. You could have just dropped into

1078
00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:08,800
Speaker 1: there and just like, got it. Your mom was murdered.

1079
00:54:08,840 --> 00:54:12,200
Speaker 1: We all understand like that that would be traumatic and

1080
00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:16,439
Speaker 1: otherwise like a middling film that was entertaining. I didn't

1081
00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:18,480
Speaker 1: feel bad that I saw it in the theater that

1082
00:54:18,600 --> 00:54:22,759
Speaker 1: I think will be We will quickly move on from this.

1083
00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:25,640
Speaker 1: This is a closing of the chapter of this particular

1084
00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:30,080
Speaker 1: page of the of the DC Universe, so that the

1085
00:54:30,160 --> 00:54:34,040
Speaker 1: James Gunn universe can be born. It was fine, Yeah,

1086
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:37,640
Speaker 1: better than Black Adam. I agree. I like that, that's

1087
00:54:37,680 --> 00:54:39,480
Speaker 1: like your baseline. It did.

1088
00:54:39,520 --> 00:54:43,359
Speaker 2: I will say it did make twelve million dollars less

1089
00:54:43,360 --> 00:54:45,240
Speaker 2: in its opening weekend than Black Adam.

1090
00:54:45,640 --> 00:54:47,080
Speaker 1: Think of that what you will. I think that.

1091
00:54:47,160 --> 00:54:51,239
Speaker 2: Speaks to the way that people don't necessarily think that

1092
00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:53,319
Speaker 2: this will have much of an impact because we have

1093
00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:56,319
Speaker 2: this new universe. I will say my biggest takeaway is

1094
00:54:56,640 --> 00:54:58,600
Speaker 2: I can't wait for Blue Beetle to come out. I'm

1095
00:54:58,680 --> 00:55:03,200
Speaker 2: very excited that James Gun has confirmed that, you know,

1096
00:55:03,320 --> 00:55:06,120
Speaker 2: Hime Rays will be the first official character in his

1097
00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:09,600
Speaker 2: new DCU. So I really hope that people get excited

1098
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:11,400
Speaker 2: to go and see that movie. I can't wait to

1099
00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:14,560
Speaker 2: see it. I'm excited to see a new generation of

1100
00:55:14,600 --> 00:55:17,800
Speaker 2: heroes leaning more into the comic books.

1101
00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:22,280
Speaker 1: I'm excited about all these Superman rumors that we're hearing.

1102
00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:24,279
Speaker 2: Boris Kit shed some really fun ones.

1103
00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:26,560
Speaker 1: I would love to see Emma McKay as Lois Lane.

1104
00:55:26,680 --> 00:55:30,160
Speaker 2: I think David corn Sweat would be a sick Clark Kent.

1105
00:55:30,239 --> 00:55:33,080
Speaker 2: He looks literally like him. Like you know what, I'm

1106
00:55:33,120 --> 00:55:35,600
Speaker 2: excited to be excited about these movies again, and I

1107
00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:39,080
Speaker 2: feel like the Flash is that endpoint. I love that

1108
00:55:39,160 --> 00:55:41,680
Speaker 2: it's connected. I had so many people DM me about

1109
00:55:41,680 --> 00:55:43,600
Speaker 2: this movie after they saw it and say I loved it,

1110
00:55:43,640 --> 00:55:45,799
Speaker 2: I hated it, you know, I didn't feel any way

1111
00:55:45,840 --> 00:55:47,960
Speaker 2: about it. We always say this if you love a

1112
00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:50,160
Speaker 2: comic book movie. I'm just happy that these movies are

1113
00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:53,359
Speaker 2: connecting with you. Go out read the comics, find out

1114
00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:57,319
Speaker 2: what inspired is the thing? An influential one, very influential.

1115
00:55:57,320 --> 00:56:00,520
Speaker 2: You're actually gonna be if you like Spider Us. The

1116
00:56:00,680 --> 00:56:03,759
Speaker 2: moment that we start our flashpoint omnibus, you guys are

1117
00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:04,720
Speaker 2: gonna be laughing.

1118
00:56:04,960 --> 00:56:08,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, because the way this stuff is so cyclical. There

1119
00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:09,600
Speaker 1: is a word that.

1120
00:56:09,600 --> 00:56:12,759
Speaker 2: I will say many times in my flashpoint omnibus, and

1121
00:56:12,800 --> 00:56:15,000
Speaker 2: you guys will realize how much all of these stories

1122
00:56:15,040 --> 00:56:18,040
Speaker 2: live and breathe and learn and take from each other.

1123
00:56:18,239 --> 00:56:20,120
Speaker 2: But yeah, I agree with you. I think you summed

1124
00:56:20,160 --> 00:56:21,799
Speaker 2: it up perfectly. And I just can't wait to see

1125
00:56:21,800 --> 00:56:22,279
Speaker 2: what's next.

1126
00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:24,320
Speaker 1: I'm ready. I'm ready for August. I'm ready to be

1127
00:56:24,400 --> 00:56:27,160
Speaker 1: excited about DC. Should we briefly talk about the Arthur

1128
00:56:27,160 --> 00:56:29,120
Speaker 1: Curry cameo and what that means?

1129
00:56:29,480 --> 00:56:32,640
Speaker 2: Yes, I think it is worth talking about. So at

1130
00:56:32,640 --> 00:56:34,319
Speaker 2: the end of the movie, if you wait right till

1131
00:56:34,320 --> 00:56:36,480
Speaker 2: the end, there is one post credit scene. Now, a

1132
00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:38,160
Speaker 2: lot of people have said it wasn't worth waiting for.

1133
00:56:38,200 --> 00:56:41,640
Speaker 2: It's just Jason Momoa and Barry and they're kind of

1134
00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:45,200
Speaker 2: like messing around, and Arthur Curry is very drunk as always,

1135
00:56:45,239 --> 00:56:48,319
Speaker 2: and he's kind of like in Central City and he's he's,

1136
00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:51,160
Speaker 2: you know, not feeling too great and everything, and he

1137
00:56:51,280 --> 00:56:54,480
Speaker 2: sort of falls into a puddle. But I actually think

1138
00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:56,839
Speaker 2: this is a very important bit of law that they

1139
00:56:56,880 --> 00:57:01,640
Speaker 2: set up. Barry tells Arthur, in every universe I go to,

1140
00:57:01,719 --> 00:57:04,520
Speaker 2: in every timeline and every version of the Speed Force

1141
00:57:04,640 --> 00:57:06,759
Speaker 2: the world that the Speed Force takes me to, you

1142
00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:11,200
Speaker 2: are always you. Barry says, I've seen other people it

1143
00:57:11,239 --> 00:57:13,480
Speaker 2: was Bruce, but it wasn't Bruce. He was a different Bruce.

1144
00:57:13,520 --> 00:57:14,240
Speaker 1: I've been to these.

1145
00:57:14,080 --> 00:57:18,760
Speaker 2: Different places, and Bruce is always a different person. Superman

1146
00:57:18,760 --> 00:57:22,560
Speaker 2: didn't exist, Supergirl was there. But in every universe or

1147
00:57:22,720 --> 00:57:27,520
Speaker 2: multiverseal timeline that Barry goes to, Arthur is always Arthur

1148
00:57:27,560 --> 00:57:30,480
Speaker 2: AKA Arthur is always Jason Momoa. Now I think that's

1149
00:57:30,600 --> 00:57:34,320
Speaker 2: very smart because as much as everybody maligned Aquaman.

1150
00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:34,920
Speaker 1: It's great.

1151
00:57:35,160 --> 00:57:38,960
Speaker 2: Sorry guys, that movie is still the most profitable DC

1152
00:57:39,080 --> 00:57:42,959
Speaker 2: movie of all time, and Aquaman two is coming out

1153
00:57:43,160 --> 00:57:45,880
Speaker 2: at the end of the year. James Gunn has already

1154
00:57:45,880 --> 00:57:48,840
Speaker 2: said it counts as part of the DCU, and if

1155
00:57:48,840 --> 00:57:50,880
Speaker 2: that movie makes a billion dollars, they don't want to

1156
00:57:50,920 --> 00:57:53,840
Speaker 2: have to cast Aquaman with a different actor. So I

1157
00:57:53,840 --> 00:57:56,680
Speaker 2: think this essentially establishes the idea that if they want

1158
00:57:56,760 --> 00:58:01,280
Speaker 2: Jason to be in the DCU new DCU as it

1159
00:58:01,360 --> 00:58:06,240
Speaker 2: exists in the James gunnerverse, they have essentially established law

1160
00:58:06,320 --> 00:58:08,120
Speaker 2: here that he could come back.

1161
00:58:08,160 --> 00:58:11,800
Speaker 1: That's right, that's right. Yeah. Up next, a return to

1162
00:58:11,840 --> 00:58:16,000
Speaker 1: the Omnibus to discuss the comics origins of the Flash

1163
00:58:16,040 --> 00:58:16,880
Speaker 1: movie Flashpoint.

1164
00:58:39,960 --> 00:58:42,960
Speaker 2: Welcome to another chapter in the Omnibus where law, analysis

1165
00:58:43,000 --> 00:58:49,080
Speaker 2: and understanding come together. This week it's Flashpoint. We're doing it.

1166
00:58:50,080 --> 00:58:57,640
Speaker 2: We're talking about the absolutely groundbreaking influential. I would say

1167
00:58:57,680 --> 00:58:58,560
Speaker 2: it's a crisis.

1168
00:58:58,720 --> 00:59:01,440
Speaker 1: Yeah. It was almost like an anti crisis. It was

1169
00:59:01,800 --> 00:59:02,560
Speaker 1: exploding a.

1170
00:59:02,560 --> 00:59:05,520
Speaker 2: Universe out and bringing it back in all in one.

1171
00:59:06,280 --> 00:59:11,240
Speaker 2: And of course, like every comic book event, Flashpoint didn't

1172
00:59:11,280 --> 00:59:15,640
Speaker 2: begin or end with number one, you know, it began

1173
00:59:15,760 --> 00:59:20,200
Speaker 2: with many. There was a road to Flashpoint where Jeff John,

1174
00:59:20,280 --> 00:59:23,360
Speaker 2: Scott Collins and Francis Mannipold detailed the battle between the

1175
00:59:23,360 --> 00:59:26,800
Speaker 2: Flash and the Reverse Flash and kind of established a

1176
00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:30,080
Speaker 2: context for the scope of the world changing event which

1177
00:59:30,120 --> 00:59:34,160
Speaker 2: featured you know, bar Allen, and it featured a futuristic

1178
00:59:34,280 --> 00:59:36,720
Speaker 2: version of Barry Allen who came to stop what he

1179
00:59:36,840 --> 00:59:41,440
Speaker 2: called an anomaly, and the anomaly was a different version

1180
00:59:41,760 --> 00:59:44,080
Speaker 2: of the Flash who wasn't supposed to be in that timeline.

1181
00:59:44,120 --> 00:59:46,280
Speaker 2: And if you have seen Spider Man into the Spider Verse,

1182
00:59:46,480 --> 00:59:52,080
Speaker 2: that will sound familiar. So the mini series essentially ends

1183
00:59:52,200 --> 00:59:56,680
Speaker 2: on the anniversary of Barry's mum's death, and it's this

1184
00:59:56,800 --> 00:59:59,600
Speaker 2: really sad moment and Barry promises his mum that soon

1185
00:59:59,680 --> 01:00:04,840
Speaker 2: everything thing will change, and then enter Flashpoint, which changes

1186
01:00:04,880 --> 01:00:07,280
Speaker 2: the DC universe forever. Before we really get and talk

1187
01:00:07,280 --> 01:00:10,760
Speaker 2: about Flashpoint, Jason, where were you the first time? Oh gosh, like,

1188
01:00:10,800 --> 01:00:12,760
Speaker 2: what's your first memory of reading Flashpoint?

1189
01:00:12,840 --> 01:00:16,120
Speaker 1: It was like only maybe four years ago or so.

1190
01:00:16,800 --> 01:00:18,720
Speaker 1: I don't keep up on the day to day, week

1191
01:00:18,760 --> 01:00:21,200
Speaker 1: to week with DC, but I always pick up like

1192
01:00:21,360 --> 01:00:25,320
Speaker 1: the big events, yeah, crisis, some of the New fifty

1193
01:00:25,360 --> 01:00:28,360
Speaker 1: two stuff. Flashpoint was obviously a big one of them,

1194
01:00:28,440 --> 01:00:31,440
Speaker 1: any of the kind of big Batman crossovers. Because I

1195
01:00:31,480 --> 01:00:34,080
Speaker 1: read mostly DC through trades, so it was a few

1196
01:00:34,120 --> 01:00:36,600
Speaker 1: years ago, and it was fun. The Flashes character who

1197
01:00:36,640 --> 01:00:42,120
Speaker 1: I heavily Batman centric and Superman centric, and when I

1198
01:00:42,200 --> 01:00:46,280
Speaker 1: read DC, so I hadn't read much Flash and it

1199
01:00:46,360 --> 01:00:48,880
Speaker 1: was fun. Yeah, it was fun to get to get into.

1200
01:00:49,240 --> 01:00:50,880
Speaker 2: For me, it was I read it in the comic

1201
01:00:50,920 --> 01:00:53,200
Speaker 2: shop where I worked. There was a lot of quiet

1202
01:00:53,280 --> 01:00:55,760
Speaker 2: afternoons sometimes there you'd be there on a you know,

1203
01:00:56,160 --> 01:00:59,640
Speaker 2: a Thursday or a Friday in the early afternoon. I

1204
01:00:59,680 --> 01:01:02,520
Speaker 2: read the whole thing in a trade. I was reading

1205
01:01:02,520 --> 01:01:04,480
Speaker 2: a lot of DC back then, catching up on a

1206
01:01:04,480 --> 01:01:06,600
Speaker 2: lot of stuff I hadn't really read or kept up with.

1207
01:01:06,800 --> 01:01:09,160
Speaker 2: And yeah, I remember it was just like a blockbuster

1208
01:01:09,240 --> 01:01:11,800
Speaker 2: kind of popcorn book. Yeah, you know, And it's really

1209
01:01:11,800 --> 01:01:15,000
Speaker 2: fun in the context of other crisises, of this tradition

1210
01:01:15,160 --> 01:01:20,680
Speaker 2: that DC has of streamlining their multiple universes, the kind

1211
01:01:20,680 --> 01:01:24,520
Speaker 2: of sprawling canon that is created when you have hundreds

1212
01:01:24,560 --> 01:01:26,640
Speaker 2: and thousands of people writing.

1213
01:01:26,280 --> 01:01:27,720
Speaker 1: Books over eighty years.

1214
01:01:27,800 --> 01:01:30,280
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's a very fun, interesting book, and I'm

1215
01:01:30,280 --> 01:01:34,520
Speaker 2: not surprised that it is such a legendary title in

1216
01:01:34,600 --> 01:01:37,280
Speaker 2: comic books and also DC fans in general. I think

1217
01:01:37,640 --> 01:01:39,960
Speaker 2: just love this book, and I understand why some of

1218
01:01:39,960 --> 01:01:43,280
Speaker 2: them were disappointed that Flash wasn't more directly Flashpoint, but

1219
01:01:43,360 --> 01:01:47,000
Speaker 2: it's really interesting. It's an era defining event. Geoff John's

1220
01:01:47,040 --> 01:01:47,400
Speaker 2: wrote it.

1221
01:01:47,520 --> 01:01:48,280
Speaker 1: The main series.

1222
01:01:48,280 --> 01:01:51,240
Speaker 2: Once you get into Flashpoint, Geff John's the writer Adam

1223
01:01:51,280 --> 01:01:54,560
Speaker 2: Kubert penciled it. Legend Sandra Hope and Jesse Delpadang were

1224
01:01:54,560 --> 01:01:57,840
Speaker 2: the incas Alex Sinclair colorist and Nick Napolitano on letters

1225
01:01:58,120 --> 01:02:01,720
Speaker 2: and It. Essentially, while fans didn't realize it at the time,

1226
01:02:02,200 --> 01:02:05,600
Speaker 2: its purpose was to reset the DC universe. Barry, as

1227
01:02:05,600 --> 01:02:08,160
Speaker 2: you pointed out when we were talking about the Flash movie,

1228
01:02:08,240 --> 01:02:11,360
Speaker 2: Barry wakes up at his desk and everything seems normal.

1229
01:02:11,400 --> 01:02:13,760
Speaker 2: He's been doing a long night of criminal forensics as

1230
01:02:13,760 --> 01:02:16,960
Speaker 2: he does, and he discovers that when he wakes up,

1231
01:02:17,000 --> 01:02:20,160
Speaker 2: he's apparently in a different universe. They're talking about villains

1232
01:02:20,200 --> 01:02:23,120
Speaker 2: he's never heard of. Superman doesn't exist. Cyborg is the

1233
01:02:23,160 --> 01:02:27,080
Speaker 2: world's most famous hero, a Superman level hero. There's no

1234
01:02:27,320 --> 01:02:30,200
Speaker 2: Justice League, and as he finds out when he falls

1235
01:02:30,200 --> 01:02:32,240
Speaker 2: down the stairs within the first pages of the book,

1236
01:02:32,400 --> 01:02:33,720
Speaker 2: he no longer has his powers.

1237
01:02:33,760 --> 01:02:37,400
Speaker 1: Oh oh ah, oh no ring, no suit, no powers.

1238
01:02:37,880 --> 01:02:40,040
Speaker 2: And just when things seem like they're getting really bad,

1239
01:02:40,800 --> 01:02:44,800
Speaker 2: something wonderful happens and he bumps into his mum. Norah

1240
01:02:44,800 --> 01:02:47,640
Speaker 2: Alan alive and in the flesh. She is no longer

1241
01:02:47,680 --> 01:02:48,800
Speaker 2: dead in this universe.

1242
01:02:49,120 --> 01:02:49,880
Speaker 1: She is alive.

1243
01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:52,120
Speaker 2: She's here and She's come to see Barry. It's her birthday.

1244
01:02:52,160 --> 01:02:54,400
Speaker 2: She wants to go for dinner with her son. Where's

1245
01:02:54,400 --> 01:02:54,880
Speaker 2: his dad?

1246
01:02:55,320 --> 01:02:56,280
Speaker 1: No longer in prison?

1247
01:02:56,320 --> 01:02:58,920
Speaker 2: No longer died in prison depending on the cannon, he

1248
01:02:58,960 --> 01:03:01,720
Speaker 2: did sadly pass away three years ago from a heart attack.

1249
01:03:01,800 --> 01:03:04,760
Speaker 1: But they lived a happy life. And Barry is reeling.

1250
01:03:05,600 --> 01:03:09,840
Speaker 2: But there's one familiarity, and that's at least one of

1251
01:03:09,920 --> 01:03:13,360
Speaker 2: DC's trinity is still around. Nora. No, she doesn't know Superman,

1252
01:03:13,480 --> 01:03:16,200
Speaker 2: she doesn't know Wonder Woman. Well she might, but in

1253
01:03:16,240 --> 01:03:19,440
Speaker 2: a different way. But she does know Batman. Everybody knows Batman.

1254
01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:23,120
Speaker 2: But and I will say this is light spoiler territory,

1255
01:03:23,160 --> 01:03:24,640
Speaker 2: but I also feel like it's one of the most

1256
01:03:24,680 --> 01:03:26,880
Speaker 2: famous things that this comic does, So we'll talk about

1257
01:03:26,880 --> 01:03:30,600
Speaker 2: it a little bit. Batman is not the Batman that

1258
01:03:30,640 --> 01:03:33,400
Speaker 2: fans know and love here and know to you know,

1259
01:03:33,680 --> 01:03:36,400
Speaker 2: love to critique lovingly about his bad politics.

1260
01:03:36,680 --> 01:03:39,760
Speaker 1: This is one of the cool, real cool shocks of

1261
01:03:39,960 --> 01:03:41,720
Speaker 1: flash Point Yeah flashes.

1262
01:03:41,760 --> 01:03:44,040
Speaker 2: At this point, he is reeling he's in this new world,

1263
01:03:44,040 --> 01:03:46,320
Speaker 2: but at least he knows Bruce. So he goes to

1264
01:03:46,400 --> 01:03:50,920
Speaker 2: the epic gothic calls of you know, weigh and manner,

1265
01:03:50,960 --> 01:03:54,080
Speaker 2: and we see this they directly adapt that scene when

1266
01:03:54,240 --> 01:03:57,600
Speaker 2: in the Flash and he gets there and he's calling

1267
01:03:57,600 --> 01:04:02,240
Speaker 2: for Bruce, but Bruce isn't there because in this timeline,

1268
01:04:02,280 --> 01:04:04,800
Speaker 2: as we will find out, Bruce was killed along with Martha,

1269
01:04:04,880 --> 01:04:07,400
Speaker 2: and it was Thomas Wayne who survived. And because he

1270
01:04:07,480 --> 01:04:10,040
Speaker 2: lost his wife and his son, he becomes a batman

1271
01:04:10,040 --> 01:04:13,360
Speaker 2: who kills. He becomes a batman who is vengeful. As

1272
01:04:13,400 --> 01:04:15,680
Speaker 2: he meets Barry, he almost breaks his arm. He uses

1273
01:04:16,200 --> 01:04:19,400
Speaker 2: small joint manipulation to try and get information out of him.

1274
01:04:19,440 --> 01:04:24,360
Speaker 2: He is a brutal and violent man devastated by the

1275
01:04:24,400 --> 01:04:28,480
Speaker 2: death of his family. And as we learn through a

1276
01:04:28,560 --> 01:04:33,120
Speaker 2: kind of back to the Future esque situation, yes, Barry

1277
01:04:33,840 --> 01:04:37,600
Speaker 2: comes to realize while talking to Thomas that he is

1278
01:04:37,720 --> 01:04:41,000
Speaker 2: actually in his own world. He is not in a

1279
01:04:41,000 --> 01:04:45,280
Speaker 2: different universe. It's just that someone has changed the timeline.

1280
01:04:45,360 --> 01:04:48,400
Speaker 2: So all of these things are happening to Barry in

1281
01:04:48,520 --> 01:04:51,720
Speaker 2: his universe, and if he doesn't change them, he'll lose

1282
01:04:51,760 --> 01:04:54,960
Speaker 2: his memories, he'll lose the real timeline that he lived in,

1283
01:04:55,280 --> 01:04:57,080
Speaker 2: and he will never have his powers of the Flash.

1284
01:04:57,120 --> 01:04:59,800
Speaker 2: And that's kind of the big battle that we have

1285
01:04:59,840 --> 01:05:02,080
Speaker 2: to see him go on here, and it is just

1286
01:05:02,200 --> 01:05:07,120
Speaker 2: like a really interesting, bombastic book. And as you pointed

1287
01:05:07,160 --> 01:05:09,120
Speaker 2: out when we were talking about the movie, one of

1288
01:05:09,120 --> 01:05:11,320
Speaker 2: the coolest things about this is you do not find

1289
01:05:11,360 --> 01:05:14,600
Speaker 2: out the big reveal of this book until, like, you know,

1290
01:05:14,680 --> 01:05:16,080
Speaker 2: the fourth or fifth issue.

1291
01:05:16,080 --> 01:05:19,520
Speaker 1: This is a mystery. We see all these different call

1292
01:05:19,640 --> 01:05:20,840
Speaker 1: versions in this world.

1293
01:05:20,960 --> 01:05:23,840
Speaker 2: Aquaman and Wonder Woman are kind of warlords, and their

1294
01:05:24,040 --> 01:05:28,080
Speaker 2: battle against each other has caused this huge chaotic issue

1295
01:05:28,120 --> 01:05:31,760
Speaker 2: within global politics. We get to see Lois Lane as

1296
01:05:31,760 --> 01:05:34,840
Speaker 2: a kind of roving reporter but also a spy. We

1297
01:05:34,880 --> 01:05:37,320
Speaker 2: get to see all these different fun versions. There's a

1298
01:05:37,360 --> 01:05:40,680
Speaker 2: really rad super team called the Resistance that are just

1299
01:05:40,800 --> 01:05:44,400
Speaker 2: totally out there. You know, it's like Grift, all these

1300
01:05:44,440 --> 01:05:46,400
Speaker 2: different kinds of people, Steve Trevor, you.

1301
01:05:46,360 --> 01:05:47,680
Speaker 1: Know, fighting Wonder Woman.

1302
01:05:48,720 --> 01:05:50,880
Speaker 2: I imagine that as a creator, this is like one

1303
01:05:50,920 --> 01:05:53,640
Speaker 2: of the most fun books that you can write, where

1304
01:05:53,680 --> 01:05:58,480
Speaker 2: you can essentially just completely turn upside down everything we

1305
01:05:58,520 --> 01:06:01,160
Speaker 2: know about canon and just put these you know, the

1306
01:06:01,160 --> 01:06:02,880
Speaker 2: toys that you get to play with, but you're putting

1307
01:06:02,880 --> 01:06:04,920
Speaker 2: them in totally different places on the chessboard.

1308
01:06:05,480 --> 01:06:07,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was really fun. I mean that's always been

1309
01:06:08,120 --> 01:06:12,040
Speaker 1: part of DC's DNA you know, m hm with these

1310
01:06:12,080 --> 01:06:14,840
Speaker 1: kind of like upside down yeah, yeah, you know, bizarre

1311
01:06:14,840 --> 01:06:17,680
Speaker 1: O Superman, these kind of like crazy versions. But this

1312
01:06:17,920 --> 01:06:20,360
Speaker 1: was like a really unique take on it because it

1313
01:06:20,400 --> 01:06:24,320
Speaker 1: wasn't just like oh, wonder Woman's bad. There was like

1314
01:06:24,360 --> 01:06:31,880
Speaker 1: a real political reason that the Amazonians had seized the UK. Yeah,

1315
01:06:32,000 --> 01:06:34,560
Speaker 1: you know, there was like a wire war that while

1316
01:06:34,640 --> 01:06:37,920
Speaker 1: the main Flashpoint books don't really delve, they kind of

1317
01:06:37,920 --> 01:06:40,280
Speaker 1: like just touch on it. It's like background stuff. It

1318
01:06:40,400 --> 01:06:43,160
Speaker 1: is really interesting, Like I found myself being like, oh,

1319
01:06:43,400 --> 01:06:45,560
Speaker 1: I wonder what's going on there? That's really interesting. I'd

1320
01:06:45,600 --> 01:06:47,520
Speaker 1: like to know more about, like what's going on with that.

1321
01:06:47,800 --> 01:06:49,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's one of those events that actually makes you

1322
01:06:49,720 --> 01:06:52,280
Speaker 2: want to read all the one shots and the Yeah.

1323
01:06:52,320 --> 01:06:53,240
Speaker 1: A lot of times that can.

1324
01:06:53,160 --> 01:06:55,080
Speaker 2: Be something we can plain about as comic book fans,

1325
01:06:55,080 --> 01:06:58,680
Speaker 2: like you'll be loving an ongoing series and six issues

1326
01:06:58,680 --> 01:07:00,880
Speaker 2: in suddenly you're just reading an issue that has nothing

1327
01:07:00,920 --> 01:07:03,040
Speaker 2: to do with anything in your book because it ties

1328
01:07:03,080 --> 01:07:05,280
Speaker 2: into a wider event. But this is one where if

1329
01:07:05,320 --> 01:07:09,080
Speaker 2: you read Flashpoint, you'll likely find that in to reading

1330
01:07:09,120 --> 01:07:11,080
Speaker 2: something else, to reading a one shot, to reading a

1331
01:07:11,080 --> 01:07:12,160
Speaker 2: mini that led into it.

1332
01:07:12,560 --> 01:07:14,240
Speaker 1: I think that if you're going to read this book,

1333
01:07:14,360 --> 01:07:15,720
Speaker 1: you don't have to read.

1334
01:07:15,560 --> 01:07:18,640
Speaker 2: All four Road to Flashpoint issues, which were in the

1335
01:07:18,680 --> 01:07:21,840
Speaker 2: main Flash. But I would say I believe that issue

1336
01:07:21,880 --> 01:07:27,600
Speaker 2: four is It's like Flash Issue twelve is the last part,

1337
01:07:27,600 --> 01:07:30,720
Speaker 2: and I would say definitely read that before you read Flashpoint.

1338
01:07:30,760 --> 01:07:33,840
Speaker 2: It makes everything make a lot more sense. But it's

1339
01:07:34,120 --> 01:07:39,680
Speaker 2: a really interesting, fun, weird take on the DCU, and

1340
01:07:39,720 --> 01:07:43,040
Speaker 2: you get this kind of like it's the ultimate what if?

1341
01:07:43,400 --> 01:07:43,600
Speaker 1: You know.

1342
01:07:43,680 --> 01:07:46,480
Speaker 2: We love those kind of stories because the real truth is,

1343
01:07:46,520 --> 01:07:48,600
Speaker 2: even though it is not a major part of this story,

1344
01:07:48,640 --> 01:07:51,840
Speaker 2: and if you've seen the Flash, you will know what

1345
01:07:51,920 --> 01:07:54,840
Speaker 2: Superman's fate here is because they do this great I

1346
01:07:54,880 --> 01:07:56,880
Speaker 2: loved actually as something we didn't talk about. I thought

1347
01:07:56,880 --> 01:07:59,080
Speaker 2: it was really cool how they just did it with

1348
01:07:59,160 --> 01:08:01,560
Speaker 2: Kara instead of Cow the same storyline.

1349
01:08:01,680 --> 01:08:03,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought that was great. I thought it actually

1350
01:08:03,920 --> 01:08:06,440
Speaker 1: kind of worked better, to be honest with you. It

1351
01:08:06,480 --> 01:08:08,520
Speaker 1: worked better in the movie than it did in the comic.

1352
01:08:08,680 --> 01:08:10,160
Speaker 1: It worked. It was really cool.

1353
01:08:10,560 --> 01:08:13,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, But something that is cool that I like, because look,

1354
01:08:13,640 --> 01:08:15,920
Speaker 2: there's a few Superman comics that I love, like Superman

1355
01:08:15,960 --> 01:08:18,760
Speaker 2: for All Seasons and All Star Superman and stuff like that.

1356
01:08:18,760 --> 01:08:19,160
Speaker 1: But it's not.

1357
01:08:19,120 --> 01:08:22,400
Speaker 2: Necessarily a character I have a deep investment in in

1358
01:08:22,439 --> 01:08:24,200
Speaker 2: the way I do with some of the other characters.

1359
01:08:24,280 --> 01:08:26,639
Speaker 2: He's a little bit too like he's the good boy,

1360
01:08:26,680 --> 01:08:29,200
Speaker 2: he's the center. But what I do love about Superman

1361
01:08:29,280 --> 01:08:33,400
Speaker 2: is is inherent goodness and the way that goodness spreads.

1362
01:08:33,760 --> 01:08:36,719
Speaker 2: And what I love is this is essentially the biggest

1363
01:08:36,800 --> 01:08:39,880
Speaker 2: what if of What if Superman never landed and wasn't

1364
01:08:40,000 --> 01:08:44,360
Speaker 2: raised by the Kents, What if Superman never got to.

1365
01:08:44,640 --> 01:08:48,360
Speaker 1: Be the good, blue eyed boy of the DC universe.

1366
01:08:48,479 --> 01:08:50,240
Speaker 1: This is what happens. It all goes to shit.

1367
01:08:50,400 --> 01:08:53,240
Speaker 2: You need Superman there, you need his goodness, otherwise you're

1368
01:08:53,240 --> 01:08:57,840
Speaker 2: gonna end up with these huge omnipient beings fighting each other,

1369
01:08:57,960 --> 01:09:01,360
Speaker 2: these global super gods. And I thought that was just

1370
01:09:01,720 --> 01:09:04,799
Speaker 2: I like that this book recognizes that, even though Superman

1371
01:09:04,920 --> 01:09:08,000
Speaker 2: is maybe in a few pages altogether. So I think

1372
01:09:08,040 --> 01:09:11,240
Speaker 2: it's really a very joyous read and it's a very

1373
01:09:11,400 --> 01:09:13,920
Speaker 2: much of its time book. Like if you read this,

1374
01:09:13,960 --> 01:09:16,080
Speaker 2: you feel like this book was made in twenty eleven.

1375
01:09:16,360 --> 01:09:21,639
Speaker 1: Tell us about how this leads into DC's line wide reboot,

1376
01:09:21,680 --> 01:09:24,960
Speaker 1: the New fifty two, which was you know, it's interesting

1377
01:09:25,040 --> 01:09:29,240
Speaker 1: how the Big two copy and are inspired by each

1378
01:09:29,240 --> 01:09:32,479
Speaker 1: other all the time. I think Marvel had just done

1379
01:09:32,960 --> 01:09:35,280
Speaker 1: or was in the process of doing the Heroic Age

1380
01:09:35,280 --> 01:09:37,360
Speaker 1: at that time. I might be wrong about the name

1381
01:09:37,400 --> 01:09:38,760
Speaker 1: of it, but it was. They were also in the

1382
01:09:38,760 --> 01:09:41,200
Speaker 1: middle of the line wide reboots, so it was a

1383
01:09:41,240 --> 01:09:45,679
Speaker 1: perfect hey time to jump on at a clear starting

1384
01:09:45,720 --> 01:09:48,000
Speaker 1: point for these two comics companies.

1385
01:09:48,160 --> 01:09:51,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then Marvel saw the New fifty two and

1386
01:09:51,080 --> 01:09:53,479
Speaker 2: did Marvel Now in twenty twelve, which led to some

1387
01:09:53,520 --> 01:09:54,640
Speaker 2: of my favorite comics as well.

1388
01:09:54,720 --> 01:09:56,760
Speaker 1: Yeah. Okay, so this is really interesting.

1389
01:09:57,160 --> 01:10:01,280
Speaker 2: So the story ends in almost I feel like some

1390
01:10:01,320 --> 01:10:03,800
Speaker 2: may think it is abrupt, but there is essentially a

1391
01:10:03,840 --> 01:10:05,800
Speaker 2: double page spread near the end of the story that

1392
01:10:05,920 --> 01:10:09,760
Speaker 2: explains everything. This is the purpose of this book. This

1393
01:10:09,960 --> 01:10:15,200
Speaker 2: is the reason that Flashpoint exists. After a huge epic

1394
01:10:15,280 --> 01:10:18,240
Speaker 2: battle where some lives are lost and some people survive,

1395
01:10:18,360 --> 01:10:24,120
Speaker 2: Barry is inspired to go back in time and fix

1396
01:10:24,160 --> 01:10:26,679
Speaker 2: the mistake that he made, which, just like in the movie,

1397
01:10:27,080 --> 01:10:29,320
Speaker 2: is that he tried to save his mum. So he

1398
01:10:29,400 --> 01:10:32,800
Speaker 2: goes into the speed Force, and instead of finding the Cronable,

1399
01:10:32,880 --> 01:10:38,040
Speaker 2: he sees the hooded visage of Pandora, and he sees

1400
01:10:38,120 --> 01:10:41,200
Speaker 2: three different versions of the most famous superheroes from DC,

1401
01:10:42,160 --> 01:10:47,320
Speaker 2: and he learns that he can't just go back into

1402
01:10:47,320 --> 01:10:49,960
Speaker 2: the speed Force and fix it because there's three timelines.

1403
01:10:50,000 --> 01:10:53,280
Speaker 2: There's not one timeline, and Pandora reveals and this is

1404
01:10:53,400 --> 01:10:56,840
Speaker 2: very twenty eleven because everything's changed since then. But at

1405
01:10:56,880 --> 01:11:00,200
Speaker 2: some point in the past, the DC universe had been

1406
01:11:00,200 --> 01:11:03,439
Speaker 2: split into three timelines. DC's New Earth, which is what

1407
01:11:03,479 --> 01:11:06,920
Speaker 2: we knew is the main DC timeline, Earth thirteen, which

1408
01:11:06,920 --> 01:11:09,280
Speaker 2: at the time was basically seen as Vertigo but is

1409
01:11:09,320 --> 01:11:12,920
Speaker 2: now understood to be Occult Earth with characters like Etragan

1410
01:11:13,000 --> 01:11:17,400
Speaker 2: and then supernatural characters like Sandman and Vertigo characters like

1411
01:11:17,439 --> 01:11:21,519
Speaker 2: hell Blazer and Constantine. And fifty which is the wild

1412
01:11:21,560 --> 01:11:24,720
Speaker 2: Storm Universe, which we now know is coming really full

1413
01:11:24,760 --> 01:11:27,519
Speaker 2: force back into DC. So to fix his past choice,

1414
01:11:27,560 --> 01:11:31,120
Speaker 2: Barry has to essentially create a singular timeline. The time

1415
01:11:31,160 --> 01:11:35,559
Speaker 2: for three timelines has passed, the singular timeline is going forwards,

1416
01:11:35,800 --> 01:11:38,600
Speaker 2: and the book ends with Barry delivering a letter to

1417
01:11:38,720 --> 01:11:41,200
Speaker 2: Bruce from his father Thomas, and it seems like nothing

1418
01:11:41,200 --> 01:11:45,280
Speaker 2: has changed, but that double page spread essentially explains what

1419
01:11:45,439 --> 01:11:46,960
Speaker 2: is going to come next, and that is the New

1420
01:11:47,000 --> 01:11:51,439
Speaker 2: fifty two, where DC essentially stripped everything down, started every

1421
01:11:51,439 --> 01:11:55,240
Speaker 2: book from number one, and made a jumping on point

1422
01:11:55,320 --> 01:11:58,360
Speaker 2: for all characters where the canon before essentially didn't exist,

1423
01:11:58,400 --> 01:12:00,880
Speaker 2: though obviously it did because it byed all the creators

1424
01:12:00,920 --> 01:12:03,759
Speaker 2: who made it, but it was essentially a new start

1425
01:12:03,760 --> 01:12:06,880
Speaker 2: and it was a huge deal, and at first it

1426
01:12:06,960 --> 01:12:10,559
Speaker 2: was a huge boon to comic shops and sold very

1427
01:12:10,560 --> 01:12:13,639
Speaker 2: well with lots of beautiful Jim Lee art to kind

1428
01:12:13,680 --> 01:12:17,080
Speaker 2: of showcase the story, but it actually didn't last that long.

1429
01:12:17,680 --> 01:12:20,320
Speaker 2: It would only be a few years before DC actually

1430
01:12:20,400 --> 01:12:24,080
Speaker 2: rebooted the universe again in Rebirth. I loved a lot

1431
01:12:24,080 --> 01:12:26,439
Speaker 2: of the stories from Rebirth, but yeah, it was really interesting.

1432
01:12:26,439 --> 01:12:28,840
Speaker 2: The New fifty two it's still, i would say, rather

1433
01:12:28,920 --> 01:12:32,200
Speaker 2: infamous among fans because it was such a huge leap

1434
01:12:32,240 --> 01:12:35,240
Speaker 2: and it all began with Flashpoints, so this is a

1435
01:12:35,280 --> 01:12:39,320
Speaker 2: SuperH historical kind of thing. And the craziest thing is

1436
01:12:39,680 --> 01:12:44,960
Speaker 2: that Flashpoint has been adapted multiple times before the Flash

1437
01:12:45,120 --> 01:12:48,360
Speaker 2: there's Flashpoint Paradox, one of the DCAU animated movies, which

1438
01:12:48,400 --> 01:12:51,439
Speaker 2: everybody loves, and it was also no surprises, it was

1439
01:12:51,479 --> 01:12:55,200
Speaker 2: just regularly adapted throughout the CW Flash Show, and that

1440
01:12:55,360 --> 01:12:58,519
Speaker 2: is something I also did kind of struggle with with

1441
01:12:58,600 --> 01:13:01,519
Speaker 2: the movie. It's not that it's derivative, because it's all

1442
01:13:01,560 --> 01:13:04,320
Speaker 2: comes from the same source point, but I did feel

1443
01:13:04,360 --> 01:13:06,519
Speaker 2: like a lot of the emotional beats and a lot

1444
01:13:06,560 --> 01:13:09,960
Speaker 2: of the ground that was covered in the Flash had

1445
01:13:10,000 --> 01:13:13,519
Speaker 2: already been covered in the CW, and I didn't necessarily

1446
01:13:13,520 --> 01:13:15,360
Speaker 2: feel like there was a lot of difference in the show.

1447
01:13:15,439 --> 01:13:19,080
Speaker 2: Just like the comics, Grant Gustin changed his timeline. He

1448
01:13:19,120 --> 01:13:21,960
Speaker 2: wanted to save his mom, and very much like the Flash,

1449
01:13:22,200 --> 01:13:24,720
Speaker 2: they didn't want to adapt this huge global war, so

1450
01:13:24,760 --> 01:13:29,160
Speaker 2: it focused on his intimate losses. It was very back

1451
01:13:29,160 --> 01:13:31,840
Speaker 2: to the future focused. Oh, you can't have Barry lose

1452
01:13:31,880 --> 01:13:36,639
Speaker 2: his connection with Iris, you can't have Barry lose his memories, and.

1453
01:13:36,640 --> 01:13:37,400
Speaker 1: It was very interesting.

1454
01:13:37,439 --> 01:13:39,880
Speaker 2: That was the opening of season three that really focused

1455
01:13:39,880 --> 01:13:43,160
Speaker 2: on that. In season eight, ironically, they did a reverse

1456
01:13:43,240 --> 01:13:46,040
Speaker 2: flash point with the Reverse Flash, and that was much

1457
01:13:46,200 --> 01:13:50,519
Speaker 2: closer to the comic book version, with this kind of

1458
01:13:50,560 --> 01:13:53,800
Speaker 2: global war and Barry having to save the world. It

1459
01:13:53,840 --> 01:13:56,760
Speaker 2: was really interesting and definitely you can just jump in

1460
01:13:56,800 --> 01:13:58,679
Speaker 2: and watch those after you've read the comics to see

1461
01:13:58,680 --> 01:14:01,040
Speaker 2: all the different ways that this story has been adapted,

1462
01:14:01,040 --> 01:14:03,400
Speaker 2: and the flashpoint Paradox is seen as one of the

1463
01:14:03,760 --> 01:14:07,760
Speaker 2: really great standouts of the DCAU the Animated Universe. But

1464
01:14:07,800 --> 01:14:09,920
Speaker 2: all of those movies are great, so they're always worth watching.

1465
01:14:10,320 --> 01:14:14,040
Speaker 1: Up next, more Omnibus with a discussion of Secret Invasion.

1466
01:14:30,360 --> 01:14:33,200
Speaker 1: Secret Invasion launching this week. By the time you hear

1467
01:14:33,640 --> 01:14:36,599
Speaker 1: this podcast, is very likely that Secret Evasion on Disney

1468
01:14:36,640 --> 01:14:39,360
Speaker 1: Plus will be out. Yeah, the first episode, first episode

1469
01:14:39,360 --> 01:14:41,160
Speaker 1: to be out, So we thought it'd be the perfect

1470
01:14:41,200 --> 01:14:46,280
Speaker 1: time to talk about the comics origins of the Secret

1471
01:14:46,320 --> 01:14:51,000
Speaker 1: Invasion storyline. No way to think about Secret Invasion, which

1472
01:14:51,080 --> 01:14:54,880
Speaker 1: first appeared June eighth, two thousand and eight to January

1473
01:14:54,880 --> 01:14:59,080
Speaker 1: two thousand and nine, is in relation to all the

1474
01:14:59,080 --> 01:15:03,559
Speaker 1: other Marvel events that took place starting in the early

1475
01:15:03,600 --> 01:15:06,639
Speaker 1: two thousands. Now, this was a period of Marvel history

1476
01:15:06,680 --> 01:15:09,240
Speaker 1: where the company was just emerging from the kind of

1477
01:15:09,280 --> 01:15:14,360
Speaker 1: like business and creative doldrums spurred by their bankruptcy of

1478
01:15:14,640 --> 01:15:18,240
Speaker 1: the late nineties. And it was also a time that's

1479
01:15:18,280 --> 01:15:22,240
Speaker 1: kind of marked by the increasing influence and prevalence of

1480
01:15:22,280 --> 01:15:26,839
Speaker 1: the work of Brian Michael Bendis, who wrote the Secret Invasion,

1481
01:15:26,880 --> 01:15:32,320
Speaker 1: the main Secret Invasion storyline. Now, for me, this was

1482
01:15:32,320 --> 01:15:34,439
Speaker 1: a period where I was getting back into comics after

1483
01:15:34,520 --> 01:15:37,920
Speaker 1: like three years off, and it was also a time

1484
01:15:37,920 --> 01:15:40,080
Speaker 1: where it was like super fun to pick up these

1485
01:15:40,080 --> 01:15:42,719
Speaker 1: trades and kind of follow the evolution of Marvel Comics

1486
01:15:43,080 --> 01:15:47,439
Speaker 1: up through Secret Invasion. So I think for me, this

1487
01:15:47,520 --> 01:15:51,880
Speaker 1: period of Marvel starts with Avengers Disassembled, which is two

1488
01:15:51,920 --> 01:15:55,760
Speaker 1: thousand and four, kind of Brian's big swing in the

1489
01:15:55,760 --> 01:16:01,040
Speaker 1: Marvel universe proper. And this storyline is an explo of

1490
01:16:01,800 --> 01:16:05,720
Speaker 1: yet another ending of the Avengers. So the Avengers are

1491
01:16:05,920 --> 01:16:09,880
Speaker 1: kind of destroyed in a shocking manner which I will

1492
01:16:09,920 --> 01:16:13,200
Speaker 1: not outline because it is a really fun read. But

1493
01:16:13,439 --> 01:16:17,120
Speaker 1: the kind of takeaway is the Avengers are no more,

1494
01:16:17,280 --> 01:16:20,839
Speaker 1: and here is a Marvel Comics universe without the Avengers.

1495
01:16:20,840 --> 01:16:23,639
Speaker 1: The Avengers get back together shortly, they're after don't worry,

1496
01:16:23,760 --> 01:16:26,880
Speaker 1: of course they always do. Don't worry, But this is again,

1497
01:16:26,920 --> 01:16:28,720
Speaker 1: this is two thousand and four, and you get this

1498
01:16:28,960 --> 01:16:32,200
Speaker 1: very what, at least at the time for me, was

1499
01:16:32,240 --> 01:16:35,760
Speaker 1: like this emotionally evocative. All the citizens of New York

1500
01:16:36,240 --> 01:16:39,800
Speaker 1: standing candlelight vigil with all their pictures of the Avengers

1501
01:16:39,800 --> 01:16:41,840
Speaker 1: and they're standing in front of the Avengers mansion. You

1502
01:16:42,840 --> 01:16:45,760
Speaker 1: made really made you feel like, oh, this felt of

1503
01:16:45,800 --> 01:16:48,599
Speaker 1: a piece with this post nine to eleven like Iraq

1504
01:16:49,439 --> 01:16:52,080
Speaker 1: tragedy world in which oh my god, our heroes are gone.

1505
01:16:52,080 --> 01:16:54,920
Speaker 1: They get back together shortly, don't worry about it. That

1506
01:16:55,000 --> 01:16:57,519
Speaker 1: leads into a two thousand and five House of M

1507
01:16:57,560 --> 01:17:01,760
Speaker 1: of course alternate universe in which the mutants win. That

1508
01:17:01,840 --> 01:17:04,680
Speaker 1: is super fun that all of these events, and what

1509
01:17:04,760 --> 01:17:06,760
Speaker 1: I think is really cool about these events is they

1510
01:17:06,840 --> 01:17:11,879
Speaker 1: then would affect Marvel Cannon going forward into these other events,

1511
01:17:12,000 --> 01:17:14,880
Speaker 1: which was a really cool characteristic of them. Mm hmm.

1512
01:17:15,280 --> 01:17:19,759
Speaker 1: That leads you to a Decimation, in which the reaction

1513
01:17:19,960 --> 01:17:23,320
Speaker 1: to House of M. Right in this alternate timeline, mutants

1514
01:17:23,439 --> 01:17:27,240
Speaker 1: are triumphant. It's of course put back together again and

1515
01:17:27,280 --> 01:17:31,640
Speaker 1: fixed by the efforts of various heroes, including Wolverine. And

1516
01:17:31,720 --> 01:17:34,880
Speaker 1: from there you go to Decimation, where mutants are essentially

1517
01:17:34,920 --> 01:17:38,200
Speaker 1: wiped out. There one hundred and ninety eight mutants total

1518
01:17:38,320 --> 01:17:41,920
Speaker 1: left in the world. After that, that leads us into

1519
01:17:42,640 --> 01:17:45,840
Speaker 1: Civil War two thousand and six. The big have had

1520
01:17:45,880 --> 01:17:49,000
Speaker 1: of It? Ever Heard of it? Big interne scene battle

1521
01:17:49,080 --> 01:17:53,439
Speaker 1: between two sides of heroes, one side led by Iron Man,

1522
01:17:53,479 --> 01:17:56,040
Speaker 1: feels like, hey, we got to register, we got to register.

1523
01:17:56,080 --> 01:17:59,920
Speaker 1: Our powers, like there's been too many times where you know,

1524
01:18:00,080 --> 01:18:04,559
Speaker 1: the Hulk destroys Las Vegas or the X Men, you know,

1525
01:18:04,760 --> 01:18:07,960
Speaker 1: blow up a city and the people are tired of it,

1526
01:18:08,600 --> 01:18:11,360
Speaker 1: and shouldn't we register like a loaded weapon? And so

1527
01:18:11,479 --> 01:18:14,479
Speaker 1: this turns into the Civil War, where a whole group

1528
01:18:14,720 --> 01:18:19,360
Speaker 1: of the superhero community go underground, continue their superhero ways,

1529
01:18:19,400 --> 01:18:23,519
Speaker 1: but as essentially outlaws. Now it's a good thing that

1530
01:18:23,600 --> 01:18:28,360
Speaker 1: the Hulk wasn't around for Civil War, even though he

1531
01:18:28,479 --> 01:18:31,120
Speaker 1: did kind of start it with his destruction of the

1532
01:18:31,320 --> 01:18:34,600
Speaker 1: entire American city. And because of that destruction, he has

1533
01:18:34,680 --> 01:18:38,519
Speaker 1: launched into space, which gives us World War Hulk. When

1534
01:18:38,600 --> 01:18:43,200
Speaker 1: Hulk eventually comes back, he then beats up all the

1535
01:18:43,240 --> 01:18:49,439
Speaker 1: heroes that sent him away, and this and the fallout

1536
01:18:49,720 --> 01:18:53,760
Speaker 1: from Secret Invasion lead us into another paradigm. But let's

1537
01:18:53,760 --> 01:18:56,559
Speaker 1: talk about Secret Invasion. So Hulk comes back, he beats

1538
01:18:56,640 --> 01:19:00,559
Speaker 1: up all the heroes, and then Secret Invasion happension on

1539
01:19:00,600 --> 01:19:06,120
Speaker 1: the heels of Civil War was devastating because public trust

1540
01:19:06,120 --> 01:19:09,120
Speaker 1: and superheroes was already an all time low. Then the

1541
01:19:09,200 --> 01:19:11,920
Speaker 1: Hulk beats the shit out of everyone and basically takes

1542
01:19:11,960 --> 01:19:14,920
Speaker 1: over the world for a period of time and On

1543
01:19:15,000 --> 01:19:19,640
Speaker 1: top of that, we discover in Secret Invasion that not

1544
01:19:19,720 --> 01:19:23,720
Speaker 1: only are the heroes extremely fallible, but many of them

1545
01:19:23,720 --> 01:19:24,480
Speaker 1: were squalls.

1546
01:19:24,640 --> 01:19:26,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is I would say, this is like the

1547
01:19:26,640 --> 01:19:31,280
Speaker 2: biggest thing that I remember about Secret Invasion that I

1548
01:19:31,360 --> 01:19:35,320
Speaker 2: think was so impactful. It's really interesting. We talked about

1549
01:19:35,360 --> 01:19:39,840
Speaker 2: Flashpoint that very much felt like it's a fun it's mombastic,

1550
01:19:39,880 --> 01:19:43,080
Speaker 2: but it feels like kind of like a corporate edict book,

1551
01:19:43,320 --> 01:19:46,160
Speaker 2: like you know that the world needs to be reset.

1552
01:19:46,439 --> 01:19:48,519
Speaker 2: It doesn't necessarily have a lot of the lead in.

1553
01:19:48,760 --> 01:19:50,760
Speaker 1: You're exactly right, that's a good point.

1554
01:19:50,600 --> 01:19:53,000
Speaker 2: Like this does I mean, you were talking about most

1555
01:19:53,240 --> 01:19:57,080
Speaker 2: of the big events. You could just read like Civil War,

1556
01:19:57,120 --> 01:19:59,519
Speaker 2: you could read Annihilation, you could read Welbe Hulk, then

1557
01:19:59,520 --> 01:20:01,320
Speaker 2: you could read Invasion, and you'd kind of have like

1558
01:20:01,360 --> 01:20:05,160
Speaker 2: a domino effect of understanding what I remember about Secret Invasion.

1559
01:20:05,680 --> 01:20:10,000
Speaker 1: The marketing for this book is it was really good.

1560
01:20:09,960 --> 01:20:13,240
Speaker 2: Among the best marketing for any story ever. This is

1561
01:20:13,320 --> 01:20:17,479
Speaker 2: my biggest complaint to Marvel Studios why they are not

1562
01:20:17,640 --> 01:20:20,080
Speaker 2: doing a who do you trust? Marketing campaign?

1563
01:20:20,280 --> 01:20:23,920
Speaker 1: They apparently did send scrolls out to various locations. But

1564
01:20:24,000 --> 01:20:26,280
Speaker 1: that's yeah, Oh that's good. That's fun.

1565
01:20:26,400 --> 01:20:28,679
Speaker 2: But like so every shop you go into, every comic

1566
01:20:28,720 --> 01:20:30,519
Speaker 2: you're reading, it says who do you trust?

1567
01:20:30,560 --> 01:20:31,840
Speaker 1: Who do you trust? Who do you trust?

1568
01:20:31,840 --> 01:20:35,160
Speaker 2: And they start laying the groundwork for that huge reveal

1569
01:20:35,240 --> 01:20:38,120
Speaker 2: that you mentioned, which is that these characters you love

1570
01:20:38,200 --> 01:20:41,799
Speaker 2: for like thirty years, guess what, some of them are scrolls.

1571
01:20:41,920 --> 01:20:43,360
Speaker 2: And they've been scrolls the whole time.

1572
01:20:44,160 --> 01:20:44,720
Speaker 1: You don't know them.

1573
01:20:44,760 --> 01:20:47,080
Speaker 2: They some of them have been scrolled so long that

1574
01:20:47,160 --> 01:20:51,120
Speaker 2: they don't even know their scrolls. Like, it was so

1575
01:20:51,560 --> 01:20:54,280
Speaker 2: good and the idea of who do you trust? And

1576
01:20:54,320 --> 01:20:57,240
Speaker 2: the conversation everybody's having is who's a scroll, Who's a scroll?

1577
01:20:57,280 --> 01:20:58,960
Speaker 1: Who's the scroll? Who do you think is the scroll?

1578
01:21:00,080 --> 01:21:01,000
Speaker 1: It is just so cool.

1579
01:21:01,120 --> 01:21:02,719
Speaker 2: And not only that, but this is like you mentioned

1580
01:21:02,760 --> 01:21:06,120
Speaker 2: Biromichael Bendis, but the main Secret Invasion arc is like

1581
01:21:06,160 --> 01:21:07,160
Speaker 2: a superstar team.

1582
01:21:07,240 --> 01:21:09,479
Speaker 1: Leonel Francis. You one of the best artists to ever

1583
01:21:09,479 --> 01:21:12,000
Speaker 1: do it. One of our great Filipinos working in comics.

1584
01:21:12,080 --> 01:21:14,680
Speaker 2: By the way, one of the most influential communities in

1585
01:21:14,720 --> 01:21:18,439
Speaker 2: comics full stop was Potascio. So many icons, but like

1586
01:21:18,840 --> 01:21:21,840
Speaker 2: Mark Morales is inking it. You got Laura Martin on colors.

1587
01:21:21,880 --> 01:21:24,280
Speaker 2: This is an all star team it's not just a

1588
01:21:24,320 --> 01:21:27,960
Speaker 2: great story, but it is a beautifully made comic. And

1589
01:21:28,000 --> 01:21:29,719
Speaker 2: I just remember that who do You Trust?

1590
01:21:29,840 --> 01:21:31,880
Speaker 1: Was so so.

1591
01:21:32,080 --> 01:21:36,080
Speaker 2: Much in that space and that conversation, who is a scroll?

1592
01:21:36,160 --> 01:21:38,719
Speaker 2: Which one of the heroes that you love? Who's your favorite?

1593
01:21:39,120 --> 01:21:40,360
Speaker 2: Who you can no longer trust?

1594
01:21:40,400 --> 01:21:42,719
Speaker 1: It's so clever, And I will say, in a world

1595
01:21:42,800 --> 01:21:46,479
Speaker 1: in which the bad guys often have terrible plans, the

1596
01:21:46,520 --> 01:21:50,320
Speaker 1: scroll plan is actually really good. You mentioned that's really good.

1597
01:21:50,640 --> 01:21:53,680
Speaker 1: I'll name the one that kind of kicked off the

1598
01:21:54,040 --> 01:21:56,800
Speaker 1: hero's awareness that something was afoot in that is the

1599
01:21:57,240 --> 01:22:02,160
Speaker 1: realization that Electra has been a scroll for an unknown

1600
01:22:02,280 --> 01:22:04,400
Speaker 1: amount of time since she came back from the death,

1601
01:22:04,479 --> 01:22:06,839
Speaker 1: maybe the whole time, like unclear.

1602
01:22:07,040 --> 01:22:10,559
Speaker 2: Seems like scrull technology could be good for bringing someone

1603
01:22:10,560 --> 01:22:11,679
Speaker 2: back from the dead, just saying.

1604
01:22:12,000 --> 01:22:15,639
Speaker 1: And the realization that Electros a skull sets off other

1605
01:22:15,680 --> 01:22:19,639
Speaker 1: realizations that one Stark Tech cannot detect sculls any longer,

1606
01:22:19,760 --> 01:22:23,760
Speaker 1: neither can Fantastic four tech. Logan couldn't smell her as

1607
01:22:23,760 --> 01:22:27,679
Speaker 1: a scroll. So they've the scrolls have figured something out

1608
01:22:27,760 --> 01:22:30,759
Speaker 1: that has allowed them to really potentially burrow deeply into

1609
01:22:30,960 --> 01:22:35,760
Speaker 1: the human halls of government, and they don't wait. This

1610
01:22:35,800 --> 01:22:39,840
Speaker 1: is a real Pearl Harbor type plan. Like, once all

1611
01:22:39,920 --> 01:22:45,360
Speaker 1: the stuff starts happening, it escalates very very quickly from

1612
01:22:45,600 --> 01:22:48,720
Speaker 1: the Scrulls have been planning for a long time. That ready, Yeah,

1613
01:22:48,760 --> 01:22:51,800
Speaker 1: it escalates very very quickly from like a big fight

1614
01:22:52,000 --> 01:22:56,000
Speaker 1: in the Savage Land with Scrull doppelgangers of some of

1615
01:22:56,040 --> 01:23:01,040
Speaker 1: your favorite heroes fighting the legitimate articles too, invasion of

1616
01:23:01,160 --> 01:23:05,960
Speaker 1: Earth by massive scroll forces and that gets really fun.

1617
01:23:06,240 --> 01:23:08,639
Speaker 1: Now that I won't tell you how that pans out.

1618
01:23:08,680 --> 01:23:12,000
Speaker 1: It's only an eight issue arc with various other tie ins.

1619
01:23:12,040 --> 01:23:14,559
Speaker 1: You don't really need to read the tie ins.

1620
01:23:14,760 --> 01:23:16,200
Speaker 2: No, I will say the one that I think is

1621
01:23:16,240 --> 01:23:19,640
Speaker 2: worth reading, not for context, but just because it is

1622
01:23:19,640 --> 01:23:21,479
Speaker 2: one of the best Black Panther comics of all time

1623
01:23:21,920 --> 01:23:26,080
Speaker 2: is the Black Panther Yes tie in comic by Jason Aarram.

1624
01:23:26,120 --> 01:23:29,840
Speaker 2: We've talked about that a lot. Se Wakanda and Die

1625
01:23:30,360 --> 01:23:34,320
Speaker 2: is very very cool and I just love for me,

1626
01:23:34,560 --> 01:23:38,800
Speaker 2: that's like a very cool fun tie in. And it's

1627
01:23:38,800 --> 01:23:42,000
Speaker 2: the only one. Is hefte Pallo with the penciler. That's

1628
01:23:42,040 --> 01:23:44,200
Speaker 2: the only one where I think you should just read

1629
01:23:44,240 --> 01:23:46,639
Speaker 2: it for fun. And it's like three issues but otherwise

1630
01:23:46,640 --> 01:23:48,720
Speaker 2: you're right, this is the core story. You can just

1631
01:23:48,760 --> 01:23:49,680
Speaker 2: read it and enjoy it.

1632
01:23:49,880 --> 01:23:51,880
Speaker 1: So if you're going to read Secret Invasion again, I

1633
01:23:51,920 --> 01:23:56,280
Speaker 1: would say, get on at least it's Civil War and

1634
01:23:56,320 --> 01:23:59,360
Speaker 1: then go up, because I think it's important to understand

1635
01:23:59,400 --> 01:24:02,000
Speaker 1: that content. But you could go all the way back

1636
01:24:02,000 --> 01:24:06,000
Speaker 1: to Disassembled and then coming out of Secret Divisions. So

1637
01:24:06,040 --> 01:24:10,680
Speaker 1: the heroes do. The invasion is rebuffed, but in a

1638
01:24:10,720 --> 01:24:13,400
Speaker 1: world in which the trust in heroes was orid in

1639
01:24:13,439 --> 01:24:16,479
Speaker 1: an all time low, and the fact that you know,

1640
01:24:16,560 --> 01:24:19,280
Speaker 1: Captain America died at the end of Civil War in

1641
01:24:19,320 --> 01:24:22,519
Speaker 1: his own storyline that kind of branched off from Civil War,

1642
01:24:23,000 --> 01:24:25,880
Speaker 1: and so there's this real feeling of the heroes have

1643
01:24:25,920 --> 01:24:29,320
Speaker 1: blown it. We've given them our trust, we've tried with them,

1644
01:24:29,600 --> 01:24:32,639
Speaker 1: and all we get are them fighting each other and

1645
01:24:32,920 --> 01:24:35,760
Speaker 1: like an alien invasion that we only caught because of

1646
01:24:35,800 --> 01:24:40,240
Speaker 1: like luck that springs us into Dark Rain, which we've

1647
01:24:40,280 --> 01:24:44,160
Speaker 1: talked about a lot, which was this seemingly hair brained

1648
01:24:44,840 --> 01:24:47,439
Speaker 1: idea of why don't we give Norman Osborne a shot

1649
01:24:47,479 --> 01:24:51,280
Speaker 1: to run everything? Which sounds crazy, right, Like that sounds

1650
01:24:51,320 --> 01:24:54,320
Speaker 1: crazy to just say, hey, let's give the Green Goblin

1651
01:24:54,400 --> 01:24:58,120
Speaker 1: the reins and let But because of all of this

1652
01:24:58,280 --> 01:25:01,760
Speaker 1: work that start from Disassembled all the way up where

1653
01:25:01,760 --> 01:25:04,559
Speaker 1: you're just seeing the heroes, they win, but they are

1654
01:25:04,840 --> 01:25:07,960
Speaker 1: like long range kind of losing because people are just

1655
01:25:08,000 --> 01:25:10,680
Speaker 1: like you, guys, aren't really winning in the way you

1656
01:25:10,760 --> 01:25:15,400
Speaker 1: used to. It makes Dark Rain really makes sense, Like, yeah,

1657
01:25:15,439 --> 01:25:17,400
Speaker 1: and you said something that I really like which I

1658
01:25:17,439 --> 01:25:20,400
Speaker 1: hadn't really thought of, which was Flashpoint seemed like a

1659
01:25:20,439 --> 01:25:22,560
Speaker 1: corporate edict like, hey, we need to bring in the

1660
01:25:22,640 --> 01:25:24,240
Speaker 1: new fifty two. Let's figure out a way we can

1661
01:25:24,280 --> 01:25:27,719
Speaker 1: do it. Now. Marvel does this too. There's a million

1662
01:25:27,880 --> 01:25:32,160
Speaker 1: Oh it happens all the time. The original eighties Secret War, Yeah, yeah, exactly.

1663
01:25:32,160 --> 01:25:35,280
Speaker 1: The toys was if nothing then a corporate plan to

1664
01:25:35,320 --> 01:25:38,160
Speaker 1: sell toys. But what's really cool about this era of

1665
01:25:38,200 --> 01:25:42,800
Speaker 1: Marvel comics up to Dark Rain was it really just

1666
01:25:42,880 --> 01:25:45,000
Speaker 1: kind of felt like, Hey, you know what would be

1667
01:25:45,040 --> 01:25:47,880
Speaker 1: cool coming out of this what if Norman Osborne won?

1668
01:25:48,280 --> 01:25:51,559
Speaker 1: So if you're planning on reading Secret Evaging, it naturally

1669
01:25:51,680 --> 01:25:53,200
Speaker 1: leads you into Dark Rain, which is a thing you

1670
01:25:53,280 --> 01:25:56,240
Speaker 1: might want to read. It so fun. Now, last year

1671
01:25:56,720 --> 01:26:03,040
Speaker 1: they gave us a five issue limited series called Secret

1672
01:26:03,080 --> 01:26:06,120
Speaker 1: Invasion not Part two, just Secret Invasion once again. Now

1673
01:26:06,160 --> 01:26:11,080
Speaker 1: this is the new retelling of a different event, which

1674
01:26:11,120 --> 01:26:14,840
Speaker 1: seems we haven't seen Secret Invasion in the show yet.

1675
01:26:14,880 --> 01:26:19,960
Speaker 1: But this seems like very much a primer slash soft

1676
01:26:20,240 --> 01:26:22,720
Speaker 1: tie in to the show because it has a much

1677
01:26:22,760 --> 01:26:26,879
Speaker 1: smaller scope and is focused on a much smaller coterie

1678
01:26:26,920 --> 01:26:32,679
Speaker 1: of characters. Written by Ryan North, with art by Francesco Mabili,

1679
01:26:33,479 --> 01:26:37,599
Speaker 1: wonderful cover artists, various cover artists. So in the wake

1680
01:26:37,680 --> 01:26:41,960
Speaker 1: of the original Scroll Invasion, we learn in twenty twenty

1681
01:26:42,000 --> 01:26:45,719
Speaker 1: two Secret Invasion that the Scrolls are back. They're here again,

1682
01:26:46,439 --> 01:26:51,519
Speaker 1: but it's not quite what you think. Maria Hill is

1683
01:26:51,840 --> 01:26:55,720
Speaker 1: the director of the CIA Shield has been dismantled to

1684
01:26:55,880 --> 01:27:00,960
Speaker 1: sound familiar, right, and Nick Fury is just kind of

1685
01:27:01,040 --> 01:27:03,880
Speaker 1: like a security consultant, like this font of wisdom, Like

1686
01:27:03,920 --> 01:27:07,000
Speaker 1: obviously Nick Fury's seen it all, and if you have

1687
01:27:07,120 --> 01:27:12,640
Speaker 1: questions about like how AI could potentially become sentient and

1688
01:27:12,720 --> 01:27:16,639
Speaker 1: threaten the world, or what happens if Stark Tech gets out,

1689
01:27:16,680 --> 01:27:19,240
Speaker 1: of course you're gonna call Nick Fury and you're gonna

1690
01:27:19,240 --> 01:27:22,880
Speaker 1: get him involved. Well, in his capacity as this kind

1691
01:27:22,960 --> 01:27:29,040
Speaker 1: of independent security consultant, Nick investigates what is thought to

1692
01:27:29,080 --> 01:27:32,519
Speaker 1: be evidence of a scroll invasion in the Midwest, and

1693
01:27:32,560 --> 01:27:35,479
Speaker 1: then he goes to Maria Hill and says, guess what,

1694
01:27:35,520 --> 01:27:39,200
Speaker 1: I checked it out. It was nothing. But Maria because

1695
01:27:39,439 --> 01:27:42,120
Speaker 1: she and Nick have this long running relationship and have

1696
01:27:42,320 --> 01:27:44,680
Speaker 1: thought of like all these different ways in which the

1697
01:27:44,720 --> 01:27:47,920
Speaker 1: world could go badly. They have like all of these

1698
01:27:47,960 --> 01:27:52,240
Speaker 1: security phrases for each other. So she tests Nick, who's

1699
01:27:52,240 --> 01:27:54,160
Speaker 1: telling him, yeah, I checked out that thing and it's fine,

1700
01:27:54,560 --> 01:27:57,680
Speaker 1: no scrolls involved. She gives him the passphrase, which he

1701
01:27:57,880 --> 01:28:00,400
Speaker 1: doesn't know, and that lets her know that guess what, Nick,

1702
01:28:00,439 --> 01:28:03,120
Speaker 1: Fury has been replaced by a scroll. And it turns

1703
01:28:03,120 --> 01:28:07,839
Speaker 1: out all these other important people but not like important

1704
01:28:07,840 --> 01:28:12,160
Speaker 1: people in the government, but not superheros, not superheroes, have

1705
01:28:12,280 --> 01:28:15,479
Speaker 1: been replaced by scrulls. I think that's very relevant. That's

1706
01:28:15,600 --> 01:28:17,840
Speaker 1: very relevant, right, So that sounds like a lot like

1707
01:28:17,880 --> 01:28:20,320
Speaker 1: what the show is going to give us, but this time,

1708
01:28:20,880 --> 01:28:23,839
Speaker 1: and I won't spoil it too much. What's happening is

1709
01:28:23,880 --> 01:28:30,160
Speaker 1: not a hardcore aggressive scull invasion with attack ships and

1710
01:28:30,280 --> 01:28:35,759
Speaker 1: transports and you know this very very elaborate ruse. What's

1711
01:28:35,840 --> 01:28:40,760
Speaker 1: happening is an internessene battle between these kind of like

1712
01:28:40,920 --> 01:28:46,519
Speaker 1: Scrull extremists who believe that Earth needs to be wiped out,

1713
01:28:46,600 --> 01:28:48,640
Speaker 1: and yes we've been trying, and yes we've failed, but

1714
01:28:48,680 --> 01:28:50,559
Speaker 1: we figured out a kind of smarter way to do

1715
01:28:50,600 --> 01:28:55,160
Speaker 1: it this time. And a sect of Scrolls who think,

1716
01:28:55,840 --> 01:28:58,720
Speaker 1: you know what, this is crazy the scroll because the

1717
01:28:58,720 --> 01:29:01,120
Speaker 1: Scroll Empire is multiple wars, like, it's not just like

1718
01:29:01,200 --> 01:29:04,160
Speaker 1: one quarter world. There's a lot of there's an empire

1719
01:29:04,640 --> 01:29:08,639
Speaker 1: and a kind of more human leaning sect of Scrolls

1720
01:29:08,680 --> 01:29:10,960
Speaker 1: who think, no, we shouldn't be doing it this way.

1721
01:29:10,960 --> 01:29:14,760
Speaker 1: And in fact, maybe there's a way that scrolls and

1722
01:29:15,880 --> 01:29:22,320
Speaker 1: human superheroes can collaborate much to the success of both parties.

1723
01:29:22,400 --> 01:29:26,640
Speaker 1: Like maybe scrolls and humans can benefit from an alliance

1724
01:29:26,680 --> 01:29:29,599
Speaker 1: of scroll and humans. Now, can the Sculls be trusted?

1725
01:29:30,200 --> 01:29:33,960
Speaker 1: This is what this Secret Invasion twenty twenty two explores,

1726
01:29:34,520 --> 01:29:38,120
Speaker 1: And I though it goes a long way towards selling

1727
01:29:38,160 --> 01:29:41,639
Speaker 1: you on yeah, maybe some of these Scrolls can be trusted.

1728
01:29:41,680 --> 01:29:44,040
Speaker 1: It does feel like it also sets up can they?

1729
01:29:46,120 --> 01:29:49,000
Speaker 1: But if you want to check out the twenty twenty

1730
01:29:49,080 --> 01:29:53,040
Speaker 1: two Scroll Invasion of Earth, Secret Invasion again not part two,

1731
01:29:53,160 --> 01:29:57,559
Speaker 1: just called Secret Invasion? What's again? Classic Marvel tradition, Classic

1732
01:29:57,600 --> 01:30:00,800
Speaker 1: Marvel tradition. Check that out. It's only five issues. It's

1733
01:30:00,880 --> 01:30:04,200
Speaker 1: really fun and it feels like a direct tie in too.

1734
01:30:04,720 --> 01:30:07,679
Speaker 2: I think it's seeding. Yeah, it's definitely seeding this kind

1735
01:30:07,680 --> 01:30:10,519
Speaker 2: of smaller scale. Also, I will say Ryan North, writer

1736
01:30:10,680 --> 01:30:13,920
Speaker 2: of The Unbeatable Squirrel Girl with Erica Henderson, which is

1737
01:30:13,960 --> 01:30:16,200
Speaker 2: like one of the best Marvel comics ever, So definitely

1738
01:30:16,320 --> 01:30:16,960
Speaker 2: check it out.

1739
01:30:17,280 --> 01:30:21,200
Speaker 1: She's an important part of the secret of this version

1740
01:30:21,240 --> 01:30:22,400
Speaker 1: of the Secret Invasion.

1741
01:30:22,800 --> 01:30:25,040
Speaker 2: Maybe we'll finally get her in the MCU. But yeah,

1742
01:30:25,040 --> 01:30:28,280
Speaker 2: these we truly have been blessed. Like something that I

1743
01:30:28,320 --> 01:30:30,439
Speaker 2: love about the way you approach this omnibus is like

1744
01:30:30,880 --> 01:30:33,760
Speaker 2: there have been so many great Marvel events, and when

1745
01:30:33,800 --> 01:30:35,639
Speaker 2: you think about them, you're like, there are so many

1746
01:30:35,640 --> 01:30:37,040
Speaker 2: that I just want to go back and pick up

1747
01:30:37,080 --> 01:30:37,479
Speaker 2: a trade of.

1748
01:30:37,560 --> 01:30:40,519
Speaker 1: I love Dark Grain, I love Annihilation. Dark Grane was

1749
01:30:40,560 --> 01:30:42,320
Speaker 1: really cool. I love Dark.

1750
01:30:42,160 --> 01:30:44,639
Speaker 2: Grain is so fun. Also, it's hard to get into

1751
01:30:44,680 --> 01:30:48,040
Speaker 2: without spoilers. But like that first Secret Invasion book you

1752
01:30:48,080 --> 01:30:50,960
Speaker 2: are talking about, if you have a favorite Marvel character.

1753
01:30:50,800 --> 01:30:52,560
Speaker 1: They are in it. Oh, everybody's in it. I'm not

1754
01:30:52,600 --> 01:30:54,519
Speaker 1: gonna say whether they're a scroll or not. But like

1755
01:30:54,840 --> 01:30:57,320
Speaker 1: it opens and you have a version of the Illuminati.

1756
01:30:57,360 --> 01:31:03,200
Speaker 2: You're talking about a level A star famous Marvel heroes

1757
01:31:03,240 --> 01:31:06,240
Speaker 2: throughout that whole event, every single hero, you like, every

1758
01:31:06,240 --> 01:31:08,000
Speaker 2: single team, they are involved.

1759
01:31:08,040 --> 01:31:11,759
Speaker 1: It is like an ultimate blockbuster. So many are involved

1760
01:31:11,800 --> 01:31:13,679
Speaker 1: that they go deep. I mean, this is a period

1761
01:31:13,680 --> 01:31:16,400
Speaker 1: of time again where post Civil War, right, you had

1762
01:31:16,400 --> 01:31:19,080
Speaker 1: two factions. You had the Mighty Avengers, who were like

1763
01:31:19,120 --> 01:31:26,960
Speaker 1: the government branded licensed Avengers team Captain, Marvel, Ironman, others.

1764
01:31:27,360 --> 01:31:31,720
Speaker 1: And then you had the kind of like Secret Avengers,

1765
01:31:32,040 --> 01:31:35,880
Speaker 1: who were the underground team that refused to sign the

1766
01:31:35,920 --> 01:31:41,120
Speaker 1: papers to get the licenses. And that's power Man, Wolverine,

1767
01:31:41,600 --> 01:31:44,760
Speaker 1: Spider Man, the bad Boys, the Bad Boys. And then

1768
01:31:45,240 --> 01:31:49,000
Speaker 1: you had this entire you know, speaking of how deep

1769
01:31:49,439 --> 01:31:53,000
Speaker 1: the roster goes, you had this entire fifty states initiative

1770
01:31:53,040 --> 01:31:55,800
Speaker 1: where the government was like trying to replace all the

1771
01:31:55,840 --> 01:31:58,600
Speaker 1: heroes who went a wall because they didn't want to

1772
01:31:58,600 --> 01:32:02,320
Speaker 1: sign and was signed up heroes in every single state.

1773
01:32:03,040 --> 01:32:06,320
Speaker 1: And so you had those fifty state initiative like yeah,

1774
01:32:06,520 --> 01:32:09,479
Speaker 1: just got their license to drive. Heroes involved in this

1775
01:32:09,720 --> 01:32:11,560
Speaker 1: in this battle. I'm gonna tell you this.

1776
01:32:11,720 --> 01:32:14,200
Speaker 2: Two things I love about Secret Invasion and that I

1777
01:32:14,240 --> 01:32:16,200
Speaker 2: do hope are brought into the show. I feel like

1778
01:32:16,240 --> 01:32:19,000
Speaker 2: it's unlikely, but in Secret Invasion, one of the big

1779
01:32:19,040 --> 01:32:21,920
Speaker 2: tells that somebody is a scroll is that they eat

1780
01:32:22,000 --> 01:32:25,679
Speaker 2: strawberries and pickles because it tastes like a scroll snack.

1781
01:32:25,880 --> 01:32:27,919
Speaker 2: So keep an eye out if you watch it on Wednesday.

1782
01:32:27,920 --> 01:32:30,360
Speaker 2: See if anyone eats a pickle and a strawberry, or

1783
01:32:30,360 --> 01:32:32,719
Speaker 2: even just a pickle or a strawberry, they're probably a scroll.

1784
01:32:32,760 --> 01:32:35,040
Speaker 2: And my other thing speaking of deep cut rosters, is

1785
01:32:35,040 --> 01:32:37,599
Speaker 2: the importance of a character named three D Man.

1786
01:32:37,640 --> 01:32:38,720
Speaker 1: If you have listened to.

1787
01:32:38,720 --> 01:32:40,599
Speaker 2: The podcast before, you know I'm a three D Man fan.

1788
01:32:40,840 --> 01:32:42,920
Speaker 2: I hope that we end up in a world where

1789
01:32:42,960 --> 01:32:45,479
Speaker 2: there's some kind of version of that him and his

1790
01:32:46,080 --> 01:32:48,960
Speaker 2: role in the story, which is so fun.

1791
01:32:49,200 --> 01:32:52,040
Speaker 1: So it's just such a fun story. I'm I'm very.

1792
01:32:52,240 --> 01:32:55,720
Speaker 2: Interested when we have both watched Secret Invasion, which will

1793
01:32:55,720 --> 01:32:57,719
Speaker 2: be our you know, our episode that comes out on Friday.

1794
01:32:57,760 --> 01:32:59,639
Speaker 2: I'm very excited to talk about it because i feel

1795
01:32:59,640 --> 01:33:02,040
Speaker 2: like I'm remembering how much I love the comic, and

1796
01:33:02,080 --> 01:33:03,800
Speaker 2: i know it's going to be different. So I'm just

1797
01:33:03,880 --> 01:33:06,240
Speaker 2: excited to have that conversation up next.

1798
01:33:06,280 --> 01:33:06,879
Speaker 1: Nerd Out.

1799
01:33:14,840 --> 01:33:17,120
Speaker 2: In this week's Nerd out where you tell us what

1800
01:33:17,200 --> 01:33:20,280
Speaker 2: you love and why, a theory you're excited to share,

1801
01:33:20,479 --> 01:33:22,839
Speaker 2: or a quick question we can answer, which is exactly

1802
01:33:22,840 --> 01:33:25,120
Speaker 2: what's going to happen this time around? Homer asks a

1803
01:33:25,280 --> 01:33:28,760
Speaker 2: multiversal query about the MCU.

1804
01:33:28,920 --> 01:33:31,679
Speaker 1: Here's Homer. Hey, sorry if this is a basic question.

1805
01:33:31,720 --> 01:33:33,760
Speaker 1: But in Marvel movies and comics, what's the difference between

1806
01:33:33,760 --> 01:33:37,439
Speaker 1: a universe and dimension and a timeline? It seems the

1807
01:33:37,479 --> 01:33:39,720
Speaker 1: low key Spider Man in Doctor Straine shows movies all

1808
01:33:39,760 --> 01:33:42,040
Speaker 1: seem to use different items. Are they different concepts or

1809
01:33:42,080 --> 01:33:44,639
Speaker 1: interchangeable words with the same meaning?

1810
01:33:45,840 --> 01:33:49,360
Speaker 2: Great question, I was gonna say it seems like a

1811
01:33:49,400 --> 01:33:52,840
Speaker 2: basic question, but it is not a basic question because

1812
01:33:52,880 --> 01:33:57,960
Speaker 2: I actually think that is an ultimate storytelling question that

1813
01:33:58,080 --> 01:34:00,360
Speaker 2: comes out of the fact that you have multiple different

1814
01:34:00,400 --> 01:34:03,439
Speaker 2: people telling these stories, and people will say different things

1815
01:34:03,439 --> 01:34:09,080
Speaker 2: about universes, dimensions, timelines. They are not all the same,

1816
01:34:09,479 --> 01:34:11,480
Speaker 2: but they can be used interchangeably.

1817
01:34:12,000 --> 01:34:15,840
Speaker 1: That's how I would explain it. They are broadly interchangeable,

1818
01:34:16,439 --> 01:34:19,559
Speaker 1: but which term is used depends on how deeply we're

1819
01:34:19,560 --> 01:34:24,200
Speaker 1: going to explore that particular timeline, dimension or universe.

1820
01:34:24,560 --> 01:34:26,920
Speaker 2: And also I think the difference, the main difference is

1821
01:34:27,400 --> 01:34:31,600
Speaker 2: a new timeline can create a new universe or dimension,

1822
01:34:32,200 --> 01:34:37,760
Speaker 2: but universes and dimensions can exist yes, already without being

1823
01:34:37,800 --> 01:34:39,440
Speaker 2: created by a new timeline.

1824
01:34:39,600 --> 01:34:44,759
Speaker 1: That's essential. Thanks Omer. If you have theories or passions

1825
01:34:44,800 --> 01:34:46,600
Speaker 1: you want to share, hit us up at x raycrooked

1826
01:34:46,600 --> 01:34:51,000
Speaker 1: dot com. Instructions in the show notes. That's it for us,

1827
01:34:51,120 --> 01:34:52,000
Speaker 1: Rosie any plugs.

1828
01:34:52,120 --> 01:34:54,599
Speaker 2: You can find me here twice a week. You can

1829
01:34:54,640 --> 01:34:58,280
Speaker 2: find me on Letterbox, Rosie Marks, Instagram Rosie Marks. You

1830
01:34:58,320 --> 01:35:01,800
Speaker 2: can read some articles I've and writing, and check out

1831
01:35:01,840 --> 01:35:05,759
Speaker 2: my substat called Rosie recommends right, just recommend cool books

1832
01:35:05,800 --> 01:35:06,400
Speaker 2: and comics.

1833
01:35:08,560 --> 01:35:10,800
Speaker 1: Catch the next episode of x ray Vision Friday, June

1834
01:35:10,840 --> 01:35:13,080
Speaker 1: twenty third for the premier of Secret Invasion on Disney

1835
01:35:13,120 --> 01:35:16,559
Speaker 1: Plus Plus. X ray Vision is recording a live episode

1836
01:35:16,560 --> 01:35:19,400
Speaker 1: on June twenty six in which we will be discussing

1837
01:35:19,439 --> 01:35:22,120
Speaker 1: the fifteenth anniversary of the release of The Dark Knight

1838
01:35:22,240 --> 01:35:24,320
Speaker 1: in theaters. If you can't make it in person but

1839
01:35:24,360 --> 01:35:25,920
Speaker 1: still want to watch live, go to Crooked dot com

1840
01:35:25,960 --> 01:35:27,840
Speaker 1: slash events and scroll down to the x ray Vision

1841
01:35:27,920 --> 01:35:29,040
Speaker 1: section to get your.

1842
01:35:28,960 --> 01:35:31,479
Speaker 2: Ticket, and you can subscribe on YouTube, where you can

1843
01:35:31,520 --> 01:35:33,880
Speaker 2: find full episodes of the show. Check out the discord

1844
01:35:34,439 --> 01:35:36,680
Speaker 2: to meet and hind with tons of amazing fans and

1845
01:35:36,760 --> 01:35:38,320
Speaker 2: me and Jason yeay.

1846
01:35:39,600 --> 01:35:42,240
Speaker 1: Five star ratings, five star reviews. Yes, Fie fie, we

1847
01:35:42,439 --> 01:35:44,280
Speaker 1: need him, We gotta have him, you gotta give it

1848
01:35:44,280 --> 01:35:48,120
Speaker 1: to us. Here is one from Ashvez eighty four. Rosie

1849
01:35:48,120 --> 01:35:50,080
Speaker 1: and Jason are so fun entertaining. Thank you. I'm not

1850
01:35:50,160 --> 01:35:51,800
Speaker 1: even a big comic s I five person, and I

1851
01:35:51,880 --> 01:35:54,559
Speaker 1: still listen because they are that good. Very appreciate their

1852
01:35:54,560 --> 01:35:57,519
Speaker 1: inclusivity and how they make everything so easy to understand.

1853
01:35:57,760 --> 01:36:01,960
Speaker 1: Rosie knows everything strong or great. Thank you here, I

1854
01:36:02,080 --> 01:36:10,519
Speaker 1: see you next time. Bye. X ray Vision is a

1855
01:36:10,520 --> 01:36:12,800
Speaker 1: Crooked Media production. The show is produced by Chris Lord

1856
01:36:12,800 --> 01:36:15,920
Speaker 1: and Saul Rumin and executive produced by me Jason Concepcion.

1857
01:36:15,960 --> 01:36:19,160
Speaker 1: Our editing a sound design is by Facillis Fatopoulos. Video

1858
01:36:19,200 --> 01:36:23,200
Speaker 1: production by Delon Villanueva and Rachel Gaieski. Social media by

1859
01:36:23,280 --> 01:36:27,040
Speaker 1: Awa Oklati and Caroline Dunfe. Thank you to Brian Basquez

1860
01:36:27,080 --> 01:36:27,840
Speaker 1: for our theme music.