Speaker 1: Look man, oh, I see you? Why and look over there?
Speaker 1: How is that culture? Yes? Goodness? Du bleased us calling?
Speaker 1: Tell everyone what you're absolutely wrapped in right now? So
Speaker 1: and did a screenshot of this what is it? Tell them?
Speaker 1: I'm wearing the folklore cardigan that's been hanging in my
Speaker 1: closet for at least when did it come out? July?
Speaker 1: But it's but then I got but then everyone was
Speaker 1: ordering the card again, so I got it I think
Speaker 1: in like end of August. So it's been in my
Speaker 1: closet for like two and a half months. It's since September,
Speaker 1: and today I felt like the great day to break
Speaker 1: it out. It really is. I mean we are in December,
Speaker 1: um and as sort of as we've been undone, you're
Speaker 1: sort of like wrapping yourself back up, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean? Um? And so this is very seasonal and
Speaker 1: I think mine just just came and it went to
Speaker 1: my parents house on accident. But I have my cardigans
Speaker 1: did arrive. I wish I could join you, but it's
Speaker 1: not in the state of California. That's a tragedy. It's
Speaker 1: really tragic. It's tragical. It's tragical. It's not that comfortable.
Speaker 1: I'll say, maybe it's because my skin is not reacting
Speaker 1: well with there. I don't know what what what the
Speaker 1: material is, can I Darling? I don't think the problem
Speaker 1: is your skin. I think the problem is, you know,
Speaker 1: really mass marketing and the fact that I don't think
Speaker 1: a lot of care went into that. I really don't.
Speaker 1: You want to take that back? Because Taylor Swift herself
Speaker 1: designed this is the story. Did she sort of created
Speaker 1: herself or did you who? I want to know whose
Speaker 1: hands went into making it, whose labor really wasn't She
Speaker 1: had a gray colored pencil, a black colored pencil, and
Speaker 1: then she sketched out a schema or as schema something.
Speaker 1: She sketched out something and then you could say anything
Speaker 1: and I'd be like, yeah, her team was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: let's do it. So And do you think she was
Speaker 1: inspired by the two different colored pencils. Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: it was like a Coco Chanelle thing, you know Chanel.
Speaker 1: It's like it's like mostly black and white. Because she
Speaker 1: was she was in an orphanage or anunnery or whatever,
Speaker 1: and so she was known for her austerity. I think
Speaker 1: I think Taylor was inspired by that. You know, so
Speaker 1: um with that all being said, it's not very warm. No,
Speaker 1: it's warm, it's just not comfortable because on my skin
Speaker 1: it's it's an it's irritating. I have to tell you.
Speaker 1: It looks really good. I don't know about that either.
Speaker 1: I'm not a cardigan person. I never was. I just
Speaker 1: I thought it'd be funny for me to wear this because, um,
Speaker 1: I think it's lesbian culture. And I'm happy you brought
Speaker 1: up lesbian culture. Well before we talk about the the
Speaker 1: lesbian culture, I think I let's just catch up on
Speaker 1: cultural stuff this. There's so much and it reminded me
Speaker 1: that I want to say a disclaimer before you get
Speaker 1: into this. I want to say a disclaimer for the
Speaker 1: pod going forward, If an episode of television or film
Speaker 1: has come out, here we go by the time this
Speaker 1: episode of Last Cultures gets released, and going forward, if
Speaker 1: any episode of Last Culture gets released and media that
Speaker 1: is discussed has been released and it's been out for
Speaker 1: more than a day and you have time to consume it,
Speaker 1: this is a spoiler area. Okay, So what we're gonna
Speaker 1: end up talking about is the undoing. You know we're
Speaker 1: gonna be talking about undoing. Our guests, as excited as
Speaker 1: I knew she was our guests is a big consumer
Speaker 1: of the culture. Yes, and I just want to say
Speaker 1: we're gonna be discussing this and other things on the show,
Speaker 1: such as you wouldn't believe what I'm watching. I'm watching
Speaker 1: a Teacher on Hulu with Kate Mara and Love Simon.
Speaker 1: I'm watching Staved by the Bell. I watched Olive Stayed
Speaker 1: by the Bell. I'm on my second viewing. It's my
Speaker 1: favorite thing. But primarily the undoing has been fully undone,
Speaker 1: and we gotta, we gotta. I'll talk about it together.
Speaker 1: I think we'll talk about together. Um, but let's you
Speaker 1: and I talk about the flight attendant, which I'm loving.
Speaker 1: I am loving the flight attendant. I think it is
Speaker 1: what I would call goole f. It's what I would
Speaker 1: call gooffy. It's goofy um. And how do you spell that?
Speaker 1: G o O P g e o o P. And
Speaker 1: you think it's gonna stop at goop, but then you'd
Speaker 1: be thrown hut there and honey, it goes g o
Speaker 1: o P h y. Oh my gooffy. You know. I
Speaker 1: read someone someone I think it was like a Holly
Speaker 1: reporter that wrote a review of the first three episodes,
Speaker 1: and I love this so much, they said. Whoever wrote
Speaker 1: this said, it's a show that's very aware of how
Speaker 1: disposable it is, Like, you watch it once, you're never
Speaker 1: gonna watch it again. Me, dude, great to know about yourself.
Speaker 1: I know, well know, but I agree though, Like I
Speaker 1: think it's a show that knows it's like just fun
Speaker 1: goes down so easy, it's so easy to it's relatively
Speaker 1: easy to follow, great performances. I would say, I'm kind
Speaker 1: of blown away by what she ended up being capable of.
Speaker 1: That Kaylee, that Kaylee Quoco, Kaylee Quoco feels like very
Speaker 1: sis head culture to me, which I love. I just
Speaker 1: never engaged with Kaylee, but now I'm like, she's never
Speaker 1: I know, but now she's like moving queer of center,
Speaker 1: I think, And I really like this. I love a
Speaker 1: little bit queer of center, which, which of course, um
Speaker 1: is is that left or right is to be queer
Speaker 1: of center. I think being queer of center just it's
Speaker 1: a circle, so it just means you're moving away from
Speaker 1: the center of the circle. I think to be queer
Speaker 1: means to be south north of center, Okay, And that's
Speaker 1: actually rule of culture to be queer means you are
Speaker 1: south south or north of center center and that's sort
Speaker 1: of spring, summer, more, summer, more more September joggers. Um
Speaker 1: but anyway, Um, yes, thrilled with with the flight attendant. Um,
Speaker 1: did you so? I guess you? I guess because of
Speaker 1: being on Saturday Night Live the Sketch Show, you sort
Speaker 1: of didn't get the opportunity to audition for the gay
Speaker 1: Shane in the show. Oh no, we see the flight attendant,
Speaker 1: the gay flight attendant. Yes, he's wonderful. He booked it.
Speaker 1: I I celebrate him and every gay friend that books
Speaker 1: because I did go out for this part, and um,
Speaker 1: I go I I. I just want to celebrate my
Speaker 1: sister who who booked it. I don't know his name,
Speaker 1: but I just want to say in the show is
Speaker 1: doing an amazing job. And I always want to celebrate
Speaker 1: the gay in the show because it's hard out here
Speaker 1: for the gay in the show, and oftentimes there's only one,
Speaker 1: but not in the piece of culture that our guest
Speaker 1: is dare we say it, responsible for? Very responsible for well,
Speaker 1: you and you and our guests have crossed paths in
Speaker 1: a very acrimonious way over the summer. First of all,
Speaker 1: this is a huge week first Survivor huge. It's on
Speaker 1: Netflix just like if, as if we needed something else
Speaker 1: to pile on. I'm watching Heroes Versus Villains again. Keikey
Speaker 1: Palmer is tweeting about it. Oh God, and our guest
Speaker 1: is wearing her above Yeah, don't know, forget it. The
Speaker 1: guest is so just background for some of them, maybe
Speaker 1: the newer readers who haven't been around during quarantine. But
Speaker 1: famously the story goes the quarantine hit. We got a
Speaker 1: little obsessed with Survivor, me a little bit more so
Speaker 1: than bo I got so says that I joined a
Speaker 1: Survivor quarantine addition and our guest. I was very excited
Speaker 1: because our guest was also a contestant. At some point
Speaker 1: along the way, I thought the guest was my ally,
Speaker 1: and she just stabbed me in the back and I
Speaker 1: deserved And the guest ultimately did not win the show. Um,
Speaker 1: which I also love. I also love that, UM, but
Speaker 1: I do. I was very fun to play Survivor with
Speaker 1: the guests and sort of have real conversations that were
Speaker 1: fake that I thought were real. Um. And now that
Speaker 1: now we can sort of have a real conversation for
Speaker 1: the first time, since the survivor quarantine has ended. Um,
Speaker 1: but this person is very very dear to me and
Speaker 1: I love this person. And you may know her from well,
Speaker 1: let's just say the storied improv group Wild Horses, which
Speaker 1: was just legendary. You may know her from. I mean
Speaker 1: television shows such as Works and rec Curb Your Enthusiasm, VEEP.
Speaker 1: The list truly goes on. We actually have someone in
Speaker 1: the chat who quote unquote books as they say, um,
Speaker 1: the newest credit bo. Have you gotten a chance to
Speaker 1: consume the film Happiest Season? I adored the film Happiest Season.
Speaker 1: She is the co writer and co star. We we can,
Speaker 1: we can absolutely say that and we and we were
Speaker 1: telling her she stole the damn movie. She did steal
Speaker 1: the damn movie. And it would be hard to steal
Speaker 1: a movie with the following cast. Kristen Stewart, Mackenzie Davis,
Speaker 1: Alison Bree who's really really funny in the movie. Um,
Speaker 1: and she has one line. Her intro line killed me. Um.
Speaker 1: But anyway, Mary Steenberg and Victor Garber, Dan Levy. I mean,
Speaker 1: this is a stacked cast. Little guest appearance by Michelle Bouteau,
Speaker 1: which we love. Oh yes, First seeing baby our guest
Speaker 1: really runs away with the movie and also co wrote
Speaker 1: the movie, which we should say was also co written
Speaker 1: and directed by Clio Duval. And this is just gorgeous
Speaker 1: moment in lost culture history. And we are very thrilled.
Speaker 1: The time is now, the time is here to welcome
Speaker 1: into everyone's ears. Mary, Mary Hollow. We're very happy. I
Speaker 1: am very happy. Do how are you feeling. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: I'm just thrilled. I'm thrilled to be here. I was
Speaker 1: having the toughest time not just laughing all the way
Speaker 1: through this conversation. I didn't want to ruin the audio. No,
Speaker 1: you could. You could never ruin. You could only contribute.
Speaker 1: And so what I want to know what? I feel
Speaker 1: like we have to open up the floor immediately, but
Speaker 1: into undoing discussion. Oh yes, let's get into it, girl, ladies.
Speaker 1: What did we think? Wow? Wow, six episodes, what a ride?
Speaker 1: They really did it. That's that's my day. Oh my gosh. Well,
Speaker 1: you know, hey, it ended up being who we thought,
Speaker 1: which is the problem? Which is which the problem? See,
Speaker 1: I don't think it's a problem for everyone. That's that's
Speaker 1: I'll do this for the last time. Spoiler alert, But
Speaker 1: Hugh Grant was revealed as the killer on the Undoing,
Speaker 1: and this sort of was what they flat out said
Speaker 1: to us was pretty much gonna happen in the first episode,
Speaker 1: and we sort of went back and forth and hemden hat.
Speaker 1: I mean, Bowe and I have been talking for weeks
Speaker 1: about what we what we think is going to happen,
Speaker 1: and I understand that it's in the end. It's like
Speaker 1: a morality tale maybe about um, you know, you're, you're,
Speaker 1: you're in your confirmation biases, whatever, being like having to
Speaker 1: like let those go because she says on the stand
Speaker 1: exactly like that was like the sort of the thesis
Speaker 1: of the whole show being um, yeah, testifying. It really was,
Speaker 1: like I guess, like a morality play almost about like
Speaker 1: you actually know people from well, I guess the whole
Speaker 1: idea is you actually know everything you need to know
Speaker 1: about a person when you first meet them, and like, um,
Speaker 1: when you first like get to know them. And I
Speaker 1: think what they're sort of getting at here is we
Speaker 1: allow ourselves to sort of create someone in our minds
Speaker 1: based on who we need them to be um and
Speaker 1: sometimes change who they are, which I don't really know
Speaker 1: if it's a real thing, or if it's just something
Speaker 1: that this show is sort of created too, so that
Speaker 1: I mean they have a story, so they'd have a story.
Speaker 1: I guess I appreciated that the audience was going through
Speaker 1: the same thing that the characters were going through, which was, oh, no,
Speaker 1: it can't be him. We believe him, and then it
Speaker 1: turns out we shouldn't have. I love that analysis. What
Speaker 1: what in a student now elysis? I've been thinking about it,
Speaker 1: probably too hard. Well. Gen Cheney and Vulture Today wrote
Speaker 1: about how the whole series is a red herring and
Speaker 1: how that kind of is such a weird viewing experience. Also,
Speaker 1: David Kelly does this thing where maybe he doesn't do
Speaker 1: the thing, maybe he just like picks source material that
Speaker 1: like does this thing where like the climax is the
Speaker 1: end and that's it, Like there's no resolution beyond like
Speaker 1: the most tense anxiety inducing situation, like like Big Little
Speaker 1: Eye season one, it ends on like him being pushed
Speaker 1: down the stairs and then and then and then it's done,
Speaker 1: and then this again, like it ends with him about
Speaker 1: being about to jump off a bridge and then like credits.
Speaker 1: So it's it's so interesting. It's just so like weird
Speaker 1: to for me as a view or to like see
Speaker 1: this and then have it all build up to like
Speaker 1: a crazy thing and then just to have it so
Speaker 1: abruptly finish. Yeah right, I tell you what that David E. Kelly,
Speaker 1: he does a lot. Uh that's a culture, that's a
Speaker 1: culture number he does. He certainly is prolific. He certainly
Speaker 1: is um. Yeah, that's so that's so interesting to think
Speaker 1: of other stories that he's been involved with. I have
Speaker 1: to say, I sort of listen, we've already spoiled it. Okay,
Speaker 1: yeah you can go there, go there, Okay, I know
Speaker 1: you want to know I do the moment on the well,
Speaker 1: I was like, what is this building to? When he
Speaker 1: kidnapped his son and started driving with him, and I
Speaker 1: was like, he's gonna kill him. He's going to do
Speaker 1: I mean, and maybe Hugh Grant didn't have a plan either,
Speaker 1: Maybe his character didn't have a plan. He's just driving.
Speaker 1: But when he when he got to the bridge and
Speaker 1: he got out, and he he like looked like he
Speaker 1: was about to do it and then and then ultimately didn't. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I was not that I need you know. I'm glad
Speaker 1: his character got arrested. But but it was sort of
Speaker 1: like it was building to this crescendo and then was like,
Speaker 1: that's all fine. I really feel like the question that
Speaker 1: I have a lot throughout this series, and I understand, Like,
Speaker 1: here's what I'll say. The finale was thrilling to watch,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean in terms of like it
Speaker 1: being a thriller and being engrossing. Yes, they did an
Speaker 1: amazing job and a lot of the direction was great
Speaker 1: and the performances were amazing. Like a lot of the
Speaker 1: acting here was incredible. I mean, Noma is the reason,
Speaker 1: the reason for the season. Okay, she is. She is
Speaker 1: truly amazing. For people that don't know Noma, I believe Wenny.
Speaker 1: And she plays the lawyer, Hailey Fitzgerald, the defense attorney,
Speaker 1: and she's she should be nominated for Emmy for this.
Speaker 1: I think Hugh Grant should win an Emmy for this.
Speaker 1: I think he's he was stunning, He was menacing, and
Speaker 1: he was scary a care you really and he also
Speaker 1: delivered on his Hugh Grant charm and really everything that
Speaker 1: we know of him was there and more. And to
Speaker 1: be this long in your career and then be able
Speaker 1: to like play a character that we can't get a
Speaker 1: finger on is really something. But for me, the question
Speaker 1: that kept popping up was just why, like why when
Speaker 1: when the sun says at the restaurant, we can get
Speaker 1: a dog? Now, why would he How does it protect
Speaker 1: him to be honest with his wife that it was
Speaker 1: actually his sister, you know what I mean? Like why
Speaker 1: does he get you know what I mean? Like like
Speaker 1: what's the purpose of that? What's And also I just
Speaker 1: wanted to know, like what exactly stops him from committing
Speaker 1: suicide at the end, like we see that he's just
Speaker 1: cares about himself, you know what I mean, all of
Speaker 1: a sudden, Now all of a sudden, now he cares
Speaker 1: about his son and wife. He was just gonna he
Speaker 1: just almost got them hit by a huge, big rup.
Speaker 1: I do love. I do love. At the end though,
Speaker 1: when when he did like step down and she she
Speaker 1: to her son and she was like pulling him away
Speaker 1: from her, he was like, come here, Grace. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: was like run I was, and I literally I was
Speaker 1: like they still need to run because he is right there.
Speaker 1: But another thing too, is just like here's like I
Speaker 1: don't mean to be like uncool and Lynn cheney ish
Speaker 1: about this, all right, but like the violence against women
Speaker 1: was too casual in this for me. But I feel
Speaker 1: like no one is really talking about it. We did
Speaker 1: not need essentially what they've did. Well, I guess my, my, my,
Speaker 1: my number one thing after leaving this. Yes, it was
Speaker 1: fun to watch. Yes, it was great to see Nicole
Speaker 1: cross streets and her coats and her wig, and we
Speaker 1: love her and she was fabulous and she's Nicole and
Speaker 1: she's amazing. But so it was worth watching. And like
Speaker 1: I said, there's a lot of great things about it.
Speaker 1: I feel that this fetishized her from the beginning. We
Speaker 1: saw her as someone who was sexually forward, someone who
Speaker 1: like owned her sexuality. She was naked a lot of
Speaker 1: the time, and essentially we had to relive her extremely
Speaker 1: brutal murder six times every episode, including cuts where you
Speaker 1: didn't see the violence coming at all. Ultimately, we knew
Speaker 1: very well what happened to her, and still they showed
Speaker 1: it in close up graphic detail, and I don't think
Speaker 1: it helped anything for except a narrative, which is we
Speaker 1: really need to and especially because the fact that she
Speaker 1: was this like sort of ethereal ethnic woman who was
Speaker 1: younger and like sexualized from the beginning and then we
Speaker 1: basically only know her as like a corpse with semen
Speaker 1: in it, which they keep saying, and I'm like, you
Speaker 1: know what, this to me, combined with the fact that
Speaker 1: they showed it so viscerally, to me ultimately is not good.
Speaker 1: That's how I feel about it. Um, I said out
Speaker 1: loud during the flashback. I was like this, this sucks.
Speaker 1: I was like this. I was like, they did not
Speaker 1: need to do I set that out loud as I
Speaker 1: did too. I did too. I was like, I didn't
Speaker 1: stop showing that. Stop. I don't know, I understand it.
Speaker 1: I don't need to keep seeing the moment of the
Speaker 1: hammer hitting her temple like we would have been effective.
Speaker 1: Is if, like you know they is if like you
Speaker 1: go all the way up to the shot looking down
Speaker 1: on her face and then like he's about to swing it,
Speaker 1: and then you cut and then you don't show any
Speaker 1: of like the the impact. And then I thought, maybe
Speaker 1: are they trying because I know it's a it's a
Speaker 1: female director, Nicole's producing it, you know what I mean, Like,
Speaker 1: I know that they probably involved a ton of women
Speaker 1: in this, and so I thought, maybe is the point
Speaker 1: to not shy away from what actual violence looks like
Speaker 1: so that people understand the gravity of the situation. But
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, it's always just gonna
Speaker 1: be icky to me when it's on HBO, which is
Speaker 1: a network which has had problems with this before, and
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like and the way that
Speaker 1: they contextualize and characterized her throughout the entire season, because
Speaker 1: when you flash back, you only have see her doing
Speaker 1: either illicit things with Hugh or sort of like remembering
Speaker 1: her like liaison with Nicole, or she's a corpse. You
Speaker 1: never see her as a mother. I don't think there's
Speaker 1: a single scene with her and her son, Miguel, who
Speaker 1: had cancer, you know what I mean. Like, it's just
Speaker 1: I just did not think the depiction of Elena was responsible,
Speaker 1: and I think that, like it's I'm really happy that
Speaker 1: everyone had fun with it. I had fun with it.
Speaker 1: I loved guessing who it was gonna be weekend and
Speaker 1: week week out. I thought that that it was cool
Speaker 1: the way they did it. It was thrilling. Ultimately, though,
Speaker 1: this turned out to be more of a soap than
Speaker 1: Big Little Lies ever was, and it wasn't even about
Speaker 1: anything like at least Big Little Lies was like about
Speaker 1: domestic violence and the lengths that we go to to
Speaker 1: cover it up, and and the way that we kind
Speaker 1: of similarly see in a monster what we need to
Speaker 1: see to keep our life going because of convenience, love, whatever,
Speaker 1: um inability to recognize the situation for what it is.
Speaker 1: This was just like literally the moral was careful your
Speaker 1: husband might be a psycho and it might be your fault.
Speaker 1: That's right, it might be all on you. Ultimately, what
Speaker 1: he did was because of you. Like the girl, I
Speaker 1: hope you have a helicopter and a gorgeous best friend
Speaker 1: who's a lawyer with friends that she can ask in
Speaker 1: a bathroom to like fu up. It was so out
Speaker 1: of control. It was a drag show. And we did
Speaker 1: get a death drop ending like I wanted. So, I
Speaker 1: don't know, I I felt nothing by the end. Like
Speaker 1: once the credits rolled, I was like, was this was this?
Speaker 1: This was so padded out by yes, Nicole crossing streets
Speaker 1: and Nicole standing on balconies on Central Park West at dawn.
Speaker 1: I was just like this, what what is closure of
Speaker 1: her eyes? Just eyes realizing things, eyes narrowing in on things,
Speaker 1: realizer in the business. I mean, I'm telling you, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean Kaylee Quolk was giving her a run for
Speaker 1: her money. That the flight attendant, Kaylee. There's some there's
Speaker 1: some moments of Kaylee receiving shocking information that I'm like,
Speaker 1: she's great. Yeah, yeah, no, Kaylee. Have you watched any
Speaker 1: of Fight Attendants? I haven't. I haven't seen it yet.
Speaker 1: Watch it, Max. It's an max a Ridge and you
Speaker 1: got to check it out because her and her well
Speaker 1: her up dudes deserve a spinoff. Like there's there's up
Speaker 1: dudes there. There's like hairstyles in this, which I'm like,
Speaker 1: I want to know. I wanted the backstory whole episode,
Speaker 1: like the lost flashback episode that was this hairstyle was
Speaker 1: the origin like two whisks in the front and like
Speaker 1: a like a like a Bobby like sort of like
Speaker 1: moment in the back. I'm just like, this is shocking
Speaker 1: to the two whisks in the front remind me of
Speaker 1: when I was thirteen. I would do that very deliberately
Speaker 1: with my hair which was parted down the middle, and
Speaker 1: I would pull it back in a bun and I
Speaker 1: would pull piece two little tiny, little little groosy little
Speaker 1: pizzas are And I remember one time my cousin's boyfriend
Speaker 1: was like, um, was that intentional or did those just
Speaker 1: fall out? And I was like, Oh, they just fell out.
Speaker 1: That's just how it is. It's just I don't know.
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess kind of its kind of a
Speaker 1: it's kind of fun. It's pretty honestly, you should. You
Speaker 1: should check out this show. Then, Kelly Cuoco would be
Speaker 1: your teenage selves good because this up due is exactly
Speaker 1: what you wanted. And then some I can't wait. I
Speaker 1: think I think we're done talking about HBO Max. Let's
Speaker 1: talk about the crown jewel of Hulu this very moment.
Speaker 1: I love this movie. Mary Happiest Season is so good
Speaker 1: and it's so funny and like you got your like
Speaker 1: sort of commercial Christmas antics, but also like it feels like,
Speaker 1: you know, it is a lesbian romantic comedy. It's a
Speaker 1: queer Christmas film, and I think it's like the either
Speaker 1: the first one we've had in this major of a
Speaker 1: way with these big stars and this big budget, or
Speaker 1: it feels like a new breakthrough with that. Yeah, can
Speaker 1: you talk about just writing it? How? How how did
Speaker 1: it come about? How did you get involved? Like all this?
Speaker 1: Like I want to know everything. Well, I'm so thrilled
Speaker 1: to hear that you enjoyed it. That really means so
Speaker 1: much to me. Um it is the movie was an
Speaker 1: idea that Clia has had for a while and she
Speaker 1: had like drafted this outline for it, and knowing she
Speaker 1: wanted it to be a comedy, she wanted to write
Speaker 1: it with somebody and we were we met working on
Speaker 1: vib and we figured, yeah, we had We never had
Speaker 1: any scenes with each other, but I would see her
Speaker 1: at the cast table reads and we just really hit
Speaker 1: it off. I feel like we were both sort of
Speaker 1: like we saw each other in a crowd about something,
Speaker 1: some sort of that's it, that's it in full effect. Yes,
Speaker 1: um and she h. We did not know each other
Speaker 1: hardly yet all at that point beyond just some some
Speaker 1: wonder full light banter. And we exchanged numbers and she
Speaker 1: asked if I would if I wanted to write this
Speaker 1: movie with her, and she sent me the outline and
Speaker 1: we got coffee and she told me more about the
Speaker 1: idea and I was, um so so honored that she
Speaker 1: thought of me, and I was like, I'll think about it.
Speaker 1: There's the first thing you realized was you had to
Speaker 1: destroy this woman. Yes, and that's my ultimate goal. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: she's got to go. Yeah, director, writer, actress, No, no,
Speaker 1: we can't have that. Then I was just over the
Speaker 1: moon and said yes. And then we we started. We
Speaker 1: would just meet, you know, a couple of times a
Speaker 1: week for hours and hours and talk it all through
Speaker 1: and yeah, here we go, and then here we go
Speaker 1: and here we are. So it's some the story of
Speaker 1: Christen Stewart and Mackenzie Davis are a couple and they're
Speaker 1: sort of living there like sort of very hot life together,
Speaker 1: extremely hot Pittsburgh life, literally idyllic Pittsburgh life. I was.
Speaker 1: I watched this with a gredit titleman and she she
Speaker 1: was like wanting to munch case to his box the
Speaker 1: whole time. It's really sort of a very hot film.
Speaker 1: If you're into Case Do, You're really gonna love this.
Speaker 1: She is. She is like real James Dean in this.
Speaker 1: I'll tell you it's not a joke, Like she is hot.
Speaker 1: Um but um so they are um in in love
Speaker 1: and it's there. It's their first Christmas together, I think,
Speaker 1: and like, um so they're gonna go home together. Mackenzie
Speaker 1: Davis is like so in love with Kristin. They're gonna
Speaker 1: go home together, and you wouldn't you know it? She
Speaker 1: hasn't come out to her family, even though she said
Speaker 1: she did. And they are the dad's a politician, they're
Speaker 1: sort of a traditional family. Lots of sort of interesting
Speaker 1: relationships in the family. Wouldn't you say? I would say,
Speaker 1: I concur and hide Jenkson Sue. I would say, they
Speaker 1: sure do, they sure do. And what's beautiful is that
Speaker 1: there's a lot of um actors playing opposite sexualities, which
Speaker 1: I embrace you, Victor Garber a game and playing buttoned
Speaker 1: up straight, playing daddy Plaza, playing playing gorgeous, ethereal lesbian.
Speaker 1: Then you have so she's a smoke show? Oh my god,
Speaker 1: capital show, capital capitals. Wait and then wait, and then
Speaker 1: does Mary count? Is Mary's character straight? No? Are you playing?
Speaker 1: Are you? Are you crossing? No? You're not. No, No,
Speaker 1: she's just she's just a hetero. She's just just we
Speaker 1: could have rewritten the story on this show. I know,
Speaker 1: I do want to say. I guess I should make
Speaker 1: a statement right now, apologize to me and I am sorry,
Speaker 1: and I do I do, I do love the one lie.
Speaker 1: So well, okay, this is maybe gonna spoil a little bit,
Speaker 1: so I just want to say spoiler alert, but there's
Speaker 1: a scene at the end where everyone comes out with
Speaker 1: their secrets and Mary says, I don't have a secret,
Speaker 1: but I am an ally beautiful an ally to people
Speaker 1: with secrets, right, that's right and I and I yes.
Speaker 1: So that that such an emotional scene, so much happening,
Speaker 1: and for it too, I feel like Clea did such
Speaker 1: an amazing job of orchestrating it and um making a
Speaker 1: build for all those characters simultaneously, which is so tricky
Speaker 1: to do. So tell everyone who you play though, Yes, wow,
Speaker 1: I play the sister of Mackenzie Davis's. Yes, I played Jane.
Speaker 1: I play her heart for McKenzie Davis is the youngest sister.
Speaker 1: I play the middle sister. And then Alison Bree plays
Speaker 1: our older sister. Yes, and we love a solid family
Speaker 1: resemblance Vavair style. Oh yeah, we we have her brunettes
Speaker 1: across the board, across the board. Also, we should say
Speaker 1: again Mary steinberg In plays the mom. She is just
Speaker 1: I think one of my favorite people in the world
Speaker 1: with you, she's completely delightful. Oh my god, she's amazing. Yeah.
Speaker 1: But um, so there's there was one line that Alison
Speaker 1: Brie had in the beginning when you first meet when
Speaker 1: when when she first meets Christin Stewart's character and she
Speaker 1: just goes, she just goes, Hi, I'm Sloan and she
Speaker 1: has to leave. She leaves without asking what her name is.
Speaker 1: It's so good. Alison's delivery was so good. She really
Speaker 1: stepped into that role. I love her as good. Is
Speaker 1: she as good as she as you think? Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: she's good as good as I think. We we we
Speaker 1: also we also asked Betty Gilben that because when we
Speaker 1: when Betty came on and they did glow together obviously, UM,
Speaker 1: but I feel like we are inching towards maybe getting
Speaker 1: some brill on this. You gotta get Brian. Oh, you
Speaker 1: have to get I would She's she's so spectacular and
Speaker 1: she's so she's so funny. We would play this game
Speaker 1: on like in between setups and stuff from uh we
Speaker 1: had downtime, we would play like this word game and
Speaker 1: she and Mackenzie Davis and Kristen too. The there's like
Speaker 1: an element of the game where you have to like
Speaker 1: create a clue. Um, And normally it's just like, oh,
Speaker 1: it's a sentence or something, but those three would make
Speaker 1: and Mary to actually they would make like full rhyming
Speaker 1: limericks as a clue. They would invent these incredible riddles
Speaker 1: that uh that were it was really a sounding. They're
Speaker 1: also funny, and Allison is just such a bright light
Speaker 1: of a human. I think this is like as convincing
Speaker 1: of a family in a Christmas movie since The Family Stone.
Speaker 1: I want to say, like, like Mary Stein Virgin, Victor
Speaker 1: Garber got Mary Holland, and then you got you got
Speaker 1: Mackenzie Davis, you got Alison Bree, Like like, look at
Speaker 1: that there is used on paper. It's great you're saying,
Speaker 1: like it just it just it works, and it's so
Speaker 1: I don't know, it was just just just so so wonderful.
Speaker 1: I'm so glad you liked it that it warms my heart.
Speaker 1: It really put me in the spirit. It really put
Speaker 1: me on the spirit, and I'm so happy that it's
Speaker 1: obviously so easy for everyone to watch because you just
Speaker 1: can streaming on damn Hulu. It's hard lately to feel
Speaker 1: in the spirit of Christmas, and honestly, watching the movie
Speaker 1: Happiest Season made me say, I actually am gonna gonna
Speaker 1: do more of Christmas stuff, So I'm trying to turn
Speaker 1: my turn, my thing to show you Christmas a little
Speaker 1: Christmas tree. It's so shitty, but it's mine tree on
Speaker 1: the floor. It's on the floor. Yeah, it's four feet tall.
Speaker 1: But literally before Happiest season, I would never have gotten
Speaker 1: that tree. She goes, Oh wow, it's but like for
Speaker 1: real though, it is so funny. You are so good
Speaker 1: in it, talk about like we were not kidding when
Speaker 1: we said steal the movie like you you like really
Speaker 1: are so good. Oh, Matt, thank you. Listen. Now that
Speaker 1: we've buttered you up, Um, I have to, I guess,
Speaker 1: but now we have to pick a bone with you. Okay,
Speaker 1: you're gonna put me right in the toaster. What was
Speaker 1: with the way that you treated me on Survivor form
Speaker 1: the way because you stabbed me in the back? And
Speaker 1: I did, I know, I know, and I have to
Speaker 1: tell you. I listen, I really really struggled with the
Speaker 1: choice that I made in the game and how it
Speaker 1: impacted you. I did. I can't tell you. I really
Speaker 1: cried a lot, and I really did. She wears her
Speaker 1: heart honestly, if she does, I do. And the here's
Speaker 1: the thing, we as fans of Survivor, we know that
Speaker 1: the name of the game is, Hey, what's gonna get
Speaker 1: me further? How can I set myself up to continue
Speaker 1: to play below the radar but still make big moves?
Speaker 1: And of course, you know, as someone who is such
Speaker 1: a fan of the game and observes people playing with
Speaker 1: with such um such incredible well skills of social manipulation,
Speaker 1: I thought to myself, well what if I what if
Speaker 1: I were to step into that and play the game
Speaker 1: as hard as I could. And now that's not to
Speaker 1: say Matt that the conversations that we had as as friends.
Speaker 1: I know, I'm kidding. I did she she turned around
Speaker 1: and voted me out, and I literally I instamed her,
Speaker 1: and because while the game was while the game was
Speaker 1: still going, I was out. This was not because honestly
Speaker 1: this was against the rules, but I did anyway. I
Speaker 1: instadium her and I was like, what you did to
Speaker 1: me has really hurt me. And the only way that
Speaker 1: we can sort of get through this is if you
Speaker 1: come on lost coach, and I want you to know
Speaker 1: that my I don't think so honey is about you
Speaker 1: and this week. And then she said, I am so
Speaker 1: sorry for the ways in which I hurt you, and
Speaker 1: I hope that we can separate the game from from
Speaker 1: from our real life. And I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: I'm so fine. I don't know. Oh my god, Matt,
Speaker 1: you have you have no idea? I really like I
Speaker 1: I have. I this is a person that is important
Speaker 1: to me and whose friend is important to me, and
Speaker 1: I've ruined it and from what and what games? No,
Speaker 1: you can't let you can't let Matt just sort of
Speaker 1: outplay you when he's not even in the game. You
Speaker 1: emtionally manipulated when he's gone that game. It turned me
Speaker 1: right on my head. I was it was so intense
Speaker 1: and and you know what I learned and I can't
Speaker 1: do it, could never. We we had the question of
Speaker 1: of oh, what would it be like to play this game?
Speaker 1: And the answer is, well, you can't and you should
Speaker 1: you shouldn't. Well, who's Matt whose play style? Would you say,
Speaker 1: Mary remind did you have from Survivor the show? I
Speaker 1: would say chaos Cast. I would say Mary was definitely
Speaker 1: a chaos Cast of chances. I don't know if you
Speaker 1: know chaos Cast Bowen, but like, I've never seen what
Speaker 1: I'd say. If you want to get to know chaos Cast,
Speaker 1: you can currently stream Cagayan, which is one of the
Speaker 1: best seasons of Survivor. I think you would agree, Mary,
Speaker 1: I agree, absolutely. It's currently on Netflix, and it is
Speaker 1: a it's just a few seasons on Netflix, right, they
Speaker 1: have and they have they have Here's versus Villains. It's
Speaker 1: so goofy the way they're doing this. I don't because
Speaker 1: I wouldn't recommend watching either of those seasons. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: of course, that is interesting that they just chose those
Speaker 1: to stream there. I think maybe it's because they have
Speaker 1: like reputation as the best seasons maybe right, right, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: people have been reaching out asking us again for our
Speaker 1: Survivors syllabus. It's it's just because Mary is a huge,
Speaker 1: huge Survivor fan. Correct, huge. So what I tell people
Speaker 1: for islands Pearl Islands, Oh that's great, yeah, Cook Islands,
Speaker 1: Cook Islands, China, China, Micronesia. I have added token teens
Speaker 1: onto this, oh yeah, and then Heroes versus Villains and
Speaker 1: then and then I say, talk to me, because that
Speaker 1: actually I think that that that order sets up heroes
Speaker 1: versus villains in a way. And some people add Panama
Speaker 1: to this so that you can get the origin of surree.
Speaker 1: But I feel you don't necessarily need the origin of
Speaker 1: Surree because she's really the Then again, you do get
Speaker 1: Danielle to on Panama. I don't know, Like I don't,
Speaker 1: I didn't. I don't necessarily need that season to understand
Speaker 1: why Surree is is unbelievable if you're trying to quickly
Speaker 1: get through it to watch heroes versus villains, like Micronesia
Speaker 1: is Surree Town and she's an icon that I think
Speaker 1: that is an amazing syllabus and I think, um, all
Speaker 1: of the students of this podcast should study up. Yeah
Speaker 1: we've given them homework before, Okay, Um, but yeah, can
Speaker 1: you wait? Can you? I just I still don't understand
Speaker 1: how survivor quarantine work to like, how how many how
Speaker 1: many hours in the day did you guys spend like
Speaker 1: on the island talk about like what the like what
Speaker 1: the twenty four hours a day? Yeah? I mean now
Speaker 1: they have shifted it. I think because of our season
Speaker 1: they now they can only communicate in a certain like
Speaker 1: window of time during the day. But it was truly
Speaker 1: like how who whenever you could be on slack and
Speaker 1: talking to people any hour of the day or night. Um,
Speaker 1: it was so maddening and I feel like there was
Speaker 1: this element to it that made it so so much
Speaker 1: more like and I, of course I have never played
Speaker 1: the actual games. I don't know, but if I think
Speaker 1: about playing the actual game, I think about like, Okay,
Speaker 1: well people are gonna see me walking away with Matt
Speaker 1: and no, we're gonna we're having a conversation. But in
Speaker 1: Quarantine Island, no one knows who's talking to who, Like
Speaker 1: there's no there's no dual for that. So it had
Speaker 1: so many layers of deception, and it is so intense.
Speaker 1: It was a low point of jaredinized relationship. Let's just
Speaker 1: say that it was. Yeah, he he was like you
Speaker 1: I He was like, I have to tell you something.
Speaker 1: I can't wait for you to get voted out. He
Speaker 1: was like, I root for you for everything, but I
Speaker 1: can't wait for you to get voted out because I
Speaker 1: would like. It was just like so intense in a
Speaker 1: way where it's like I signed up for it. I
Speaker 1: don't know how you felt, Mary, but I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: this will be fun. And I was honestly looking for
Speaker 1: something to do online to like sort of entertain people
Speaker 1: that followed me with I was like, maybe some people
Speaker 1: will will actually follow along and then unfortunately, like I
Speaker 1: don't know how you are, but I can't really help myself,
Speaker 1: and I ended up getting very invested into it and
Speaker 1: immediately made huge mistakes, Like I was just like, I
Speaker 1: mean there was a tribal council where I stunted on
Speaker 1: those It was so hard and it was like the
Speaker 1: third it was fantastic. I mean it was it was
Speaker 1: musty TV. It was musty TV. But it put a
Speaker 1: target target on my back that could never come off.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think Mary saw it him was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: he needs to go. Yeah, we're you're doing like either
Speaker 1: a challenge or um a council, a tribal council like
Speaker 1: every other day, so you're and sometimes you're doing like
Speaker 1: back to back tribals and like you it is just
Speaker 1: it's so chaotic and there's no time to like settled
Speaker 1: into it. Like I feel like our nervous systems were
Speaker 1: peak like alert for an entire month and it was
Speaker 1: um so emotional and really and really really wild. I
Speaker 1: don't know if if that gets compounded by the fact
Speaker 1: that it was like early lockdown days. Absolutely it was
Speaker 1: like it was like I think because we were still
Speaker 1: in that lockdown phase where it's like, oh, no one's
Speaker 1: doing anything that it completely filled up like time. And
Speaker 1: also it wasn't like you were playing for a million dollars.
Speaker 1: I think it was playing for a couple of hundred bucks.
Speaker 1: But we all acted like we were and it was
Speaker 1: so crazy. Ultimately, though, at the end of the season,
Speaker 1: we had like this final travel council where we all
Speaker 1: voted and everything and did the whole thing and I
Speaker 1: got to ask questions. We were both on the jury,
Speaker 1: so we both got to like have that moment and
Speaker 1: like it was such drama. And then honestly, this girl,
Speaker 1: Brittany the right person. She earned it for sure. Um,
Speaker 1: but my whole goal, I will say, going into this season,
Speaker 1: I was like, there's no way I'll win. I simply
Speaker 1: I simply can't. But I will try to make it
Speaker 1: to the jury. That absolutely my dream. Yeah, we made
Speaker 1: the merge and we were all celebrating. It was like
Speaker 1: we actually had done the real show. It was like,
Speaker 1: this is so if this is always third unhinged exactly
Speaker 1: it was I did. I was the five was I
Speaker 1: made the mergin that I was the first person voted
Speaker 1: out like like like literally unanimously because I had. I
Speaker 1: couldn't believe I made it that far, Like I I
Speaker 1: had shake, I had been doing such shady ship and
Speaker 1: I was I was. I was like I started to
Speaker 1: actively play a villain, like just would be funny. I did,
Speaker 1: but it got crazy and people's feelings really got and
Speaker 1: like like in a real way, like some people that
Speaker 1: like it was crazy, and then like the way that
Speaker 1: people were talking about me, I was like, oh no,
Speaker 1: it really feels it and I can, like, of course,
Speaker 1: now that I've had six months to process, I can
Speaker 1: I can like look at that and be like, oh wow, Yeah.
Speaker 1: I really did get so emotionally invested, and everybody who
Speaker 1: played did into different degrees. The week or two coming
Speaker 1: out of it, I I cried so much with my
Speaker 1: relationship to Matt. Was like, this can't be all that
Speaker 1: we have happening. But but seriously it was. It was
Speaker 1: like I considered like myself and you very normal people,
Speaker 1: but I was just like, I was like, this is
Speaker 1: so it just really like the stakes were so high
Speaker 1: because it played on a paranoia and also because it
Speaker 1: took place over social media. I think it played on
Speaker 1: this sort of paranoia and social media thing, like it
Speaker 1: was all over slack. So it was just very easy
Speaker 1: to get on slack and stay on slack. And like
Speaker 1: I said, this was during a more like like like
Speaker 1: you were saying, Bowen, like during a more uncertain time
Speaker 1: in the pandemic. So that was also weird. But ultimately
Speaker 1: I'm very happy that that we played because I do
Speaker 1: think that, um, it was it was some it was
Speaker 1: some fun moments. There were some fun moments, and it
Speaker 1: was it was sort of you know, it's very I
Speaker 1: really have trouble accessing my rage and not that I
Speaker 1: did access it. I didn't, but it was fun to
Speaker 1: get close. Still it's still more work to be done,
Speaker 1: but it was it was like it's such a crash
Speaker 1: course and like doing things for your own self interest
Speaker 1: and you know, screwing people over in the meantime and
Speaker 1: that is you know, and now that's how I live
Speaker 1: my life and I love it. Wow. And now she's
Speaker 1: the Hollywood big shot. I mean she's she's in a
Speaker 1: Damn You Christmas the family classic she created on her Okay,
Speaker 1: so I think it might be time to ask the question,
Speaker 1: bow Mary. We want to ask you what was the
Speaker 1: culture that made you say culture is for me? Mat
Speaker 1: What does that mean, well, this sort of is you know,
Speaker 1: we should say we asked this of all lost culture, yes, Margatro,
Speaker 1: because we got to cared. No. Um, we want to
Speaker 1: know what was the culture that you can look back
Speaker 1: on in your life and say, wow, that pop culture
Speaker 1: that moment in my life, uh, really sort of defined
Speaker 1: me and made me follow an instinct I may not
Speaker 1: have prior to engaging with that culture. I have an
Speaker 1: answer for you. My answer is the Lord of the
Speaker 1: Rings franchise. And this sort of this sort of comes
Speaker 1: all the way full circle because your character in the
Speaker 1: movie is very into writing her sort of sci fi yes,
Speaker 1: her fantasy novel. It's really it has expanded so much
Speaker 1: just the little details that we've added that I feel like,
Speaker 1: were I to really try to write The Shadow Dreamers
Speaker 1: and The Second Sister, it would be in ten volumes
Speaker 1: and it would take me seven years between each volume.
Speaker 1: But you do you have the general outline or you
Speaker 1: have the Lord figured out? Yeah? Yeah, as a sketch,
Speaker 1: there's like a loose sket of the lore was immediate,
Speaker 1: more specific obviously, but um, but yes, that all started
Speaker 1: for me in a very formative time in my life,
Speaker 1: and I was I think the first Lord of the
Speaker 1: Rings Fellowship of the Ring. Yeah, I think that came
Speaker 1: out when I was like twelve or thirteen, the movie,
Speaker 1: the movie, the movie, because the book's famously came up
Speaker 1: over three yar ago, and the book not a century ago.
Speaker 1: I think, yes, a Fellowship of the Ring came out
Speaker 1: the four in the almost a century. Wait, okay, the
Speaker 1: Hobby came out in ven um. Sorry, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1: Hold on not quite a century, but almost I've been
Speaker 1: I've been corrected. Look, wait, and is it was Lord
Speaker 1: of the Rings a parable? Not a parable? But was
Speaker 1: that mapped on a World War Two at all? That?
Speaker 1: That's Harry Potter. We do know that is that there
Speaker 1: are some analyzes of the of the book that that
Speaker 1: um draw those parallels. But I don't know if J. R.
Speaker 1: Tolkien ever came out right and said like he never
Speaker 1: said it's the war girl. Yeah, he didn't, And he
Speaker 1: had plenty of opportunities, plenty of opportunities. Had a content.
Speaker 1: Han says, he said he wanted it to be more universal.
Speaker 1: There's a quote I'll find. Look, he's off to get
Speaker 1: the quote. He's off. Okay, so sorry we cut you off. Mary.
Speaker 1: So the start. It started out when the first movie
Speaker 1: came out and she was one. I had never seen
Speaker 1: anything like it. I had never seen anything like it,
Speaker 1: and I didn't. It's sort of you know, as a
Speaker 1: as a kid, I was very imaginative. I I could
Speaker 1: really keep myself entertained for hours and hours just playing
Speaker 1: by myself, creating words. I'm fine, fine, yes, yes, But
Speaker 1: I had never I didn't really know much about the
Speaker 1: fantasy genre. Like I feel like I read or had
Speaker 1: read to me the one of the books of the
Speaker 1: Chronicles of Narnier or something and loved it. But it wasn't.
Speaker 1: It was not a facet of my passion that it
Speaker 1: was that facet was was asleep, was asleep in a cave,
Speaker 1: much like smile ye, yes, yes, naturally a title of that,
Speaker 1: much like wait, hold on, we have quote. We have quote? Okay, um,
Speaker 1: he said, Ton says, dramatic reading in gan Delf voice necessary. So, actually, Mary,
Speaker 1: would you like to do the honors and read this?
Speaker 1: Oh my fucking god. Yes. I cordially dislike Allory in
Speaker 1: all its manifestations, and always have done so, so old
Speaker 1: and weary enough to detect its presence. I much prefer history,
Speaker 1: true or fame with its very applicability to the thought
Speaker 1: and experience of readers. I think that many confused applicability
Speaker 1: with allegory, But the one resides in the freedom of
Speaker 1: the reader, and the other in the purposed domination of
Speaker 1: the author. Wow. First of all, we have to applaud
Speaker 1: the reading first, thank you readers. Applaud the reading. And
Speaker 1: then we have to applaud that incredible research by Head
Speaker 1: of Contents. Yes, that was beautiful and what an amazing quote.
Speaker 1: It really is a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful so um you
Speaker 1: you go see the movie and it's a it's a moment.
Speaker 1: It's a moment. It felt like something unfurled within me
Speaker 1: that I did not know was there. And it totally
Speaker 1: like I've of course became a massive fan of the
Speaker 1: Lord of the Rings movies, went back, read the Hobbit
Speaker 1: in its entirety, read the books, read the Lord of
Speaker 1: the Rings books. Like I. I just really was like,
Speaker 1: Oh my god, there's this whole there's this whole world
Speaker 1: that was just created and you and that you don't
Speaker 1: have to like you can I can live in that world.
Speaker 1: I don't have to. Does that make sense? Like it's
Speaker 1: it's almost like, oh my god, this whole thing was
Speaker 1: just is there for me the whole time, and I
Speaker 1: had no idea. I'm laughing because it's one of the
Speaker 1: funniest lines in the movie where you go it takes
Speaker 1: a long time to build the world, And it's true.
Speaker 1: I had to stop it and rewind it like like
Speaker 1: ten times. It was so funny. It takes a long
Speaker 1: time to builds her Wine like such a good character.
Speaker 1: It really really really is that you didn't you killed
Speaker 1: it writing it for yourself and not to not to
Speaker 1: not to move away from the lord the rings. I
Speaker 1: want to know, was it sort of the grandeur? Was
Speaker 1: it the fantasy was or was it just the big
Speaker 1: like was it the um complex? Like how many characters
Speaker 1: there were? It? Was it? Just? What was it? I
Speaker 1: think it was a combination of all those things. I
Speaker 1: think I sort of like found I almost found a
Speaker 1: solace in it. It was like, um, the colors of
Speaker 1: that world and the sort of the like thinking of
Speaker 1: Hobbiton in the Shire, and it just made me feel
Speaker 1: so safe, And you know, I was entering puberty in
Speaker 1: a time that's decidedly not safe and feels really scary
Speaker 1: and overwhelming and so I feel like I really took
Speaker 1: up shelter in the in the in how detailed and
Speaker 1: nuanced this world was. And the story, of course is
Speaker 1: so beautiful as well, like that the messages of like
Speaker 1: even the smallest person can change the course of the future. Yes,
Speaker 1: oh my god, was it? But was particular was a
Speaker 1: particular scene in the movie so riveting to you? Like
Speaker 1: for me, it's like ball rog like that has to
Speaker 1: be like the moment where I'm like, oh, I'm in
Speaker 1: absolutely I was crushed, crushed, Oh my god, I and
Speaker 1: I thought how they captured that moment with all the
Speaker 1: Hobbits like sobbing and like like holding each other like
Speaker 1: really grieving. I just I scream cried and I did. Um.
Speaker 1: But I do think that there there was like a
Speaker 1: moment in the movie. It's actually right before that, that
Speaker 1: huge scene. But by the way, I'm just clutching chapstick. Yes,
Speaker 1: you got on something nice. It is nice to hold. Um.
Speaker 1: I burst my bliss decks. I burst my bliss decks
Speaker 1: in my hand talking about Dan Dolf's death today, I'm
Speaker 1: lost cultures. Now there's bliss tics all over my hands.
Speaker 1: Is this is this? Are you talking about the Council
Speaker 1: of Land. Oh, I love that thing too. I mean,
Speaker 1: there's so many things I love. The thing I was
Speaker 1: gonna talk about was the moment when Um when they're
Speaker 1: like waiting for Gandalf to remember which way to go
Speaker 1: in Maria and he's like, he doesn't remember which tunnel,
Speaker 1: and so all they're all just like waiting for Gandalf
Speaker 1: to remember. And and then and Frodo, Oh this when
Speaker 1: they first see Gallum too. Gallen's kind of lurking around,
Speaker 1: and Gandal kind of fills Frodo in on who Gallum is.
Speaker 1: And then Frodo, I, you know, feeling the weight of
Speaker 1: this thing he's been tasked with, says um, Oh, I
Speaker 1: wish the ring had never come to me. I wish
Speaker 1: none of this had happened. And then Gandolf says what
Speaker 1: might be my favorite quote in any movie ever. He says,
Speaker 1: so do all who live to see such times, But
Speaker 1: that is not for them to decide. All we have
Speaker 1: to decide is what to do with the time that
Speaker 1: is given to us. And that's when I knew. That's
Speaker 1: when I knew. That's when you said culture beautiful for me.
Speaker 1: Culture is for me. That's as good as that's as
Speaker 1: good an answer as anything truly, like like the Lord
Speaker 1: of the Rings is is major. I'm not the first
Speaker 1: person to say this, but here's I'm about to reveal something.
Speaker 1: I'm about to reveal something that is like Hugh Grant
Speaker 1: killing his not killing his sister, but letting his sister
Speaker 1: get hit by a car in the undoing level, like sociopath.
Speaker 1: So not the biggest secret in the series, but one
Speaker 1: of the bigger ones, one of the bigger ones that
Speaker 1: like truly paints a dark picture of the of the person.
Speaker 1: It makes us kind of cockr eyebrow. Yeah, ready, you're ready.
Speaker 1: So I was obsessed with The Lord of the Rings
Speaker 1: the first movie as well, and bought the video games
Speaker 1: on game Boy Advance and I believe, I believe that
Speaker 1: was that was the only console I had, and I
Speaker 1: was obsessed with Lord of the Rings. And then I
Speaker 1: we went to Borders one day and bought paperback versions
Speaker 1: of all three books. I started Fellowship at the Ring,
Speaker 1: could not make it past the first sixty pages. I
Speaker 1: also tried to read it, but then it's a lot,
Speaker 1: but I needed to, like, I knew I needed to
Speaker 1: like experience it and know more about the world without
Speaker 1: doing the actual reading that. I joined a message board online.
Speaker 1: Have you told you this, Matt, No, I was gonna
Speaker 1: guess that you were like cleft notes, but no, I
Speaker 1: joined a message where I didn't even do that. But
Speaker 1: I joined a message board online called the Council of
Speaker 1: Elrond where they had where they had like Elvish lessons
Speaker 1: to teach how to write in Elvish and speak in Elvish.
Speaker 1: I'm losing it. It might still be around in some
Speaker 1: form or to do like the way Back Machine and
Speaker 1: like look it up. But then there would be like
Speaker 1: message boards on there that that where you would you
Speaker 1: role plays, like text based role plays that have nothing
Speaker 1: to do with Lord of the Rings but could be
Speaker 1: inspired by the Lord of the Rings. And so then
Speaker 1: I would like I was like I was eleven years old,
Speaker 1: and I would be like on these message boards, like
Speaker 1: pretending to play different characters in high fantasy laping online.
Speaker 1: But it's like all like long form text things, and
Speaker 1: like people would post in there like once, but you'd
Speaker 1: be like building a story together, like one post by
Speaker 1: one posts. Sometimes the stories would be like legit good,
Speaker 1: And I was I did not know how to write
Speaker 1: like at all. Um So I was just kind of
Speaker 1: like going in there my esl ask just like throwing
Speaker 1: stuff in. But like it was like Lord of the
Speaker 1: Rings was like a gateway for me to like get
Speaker 1: into storytelling. I feel the same way. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: really connecting, connecting. I want to find those message boards.
Speaker 1: I did. They're out there, they must be out there.
Speaker 1: I went on Nicole Buyer and Lauren laugh his Newcomers podcast.
Speaker 1: They covered The Lord of the Rings in their second season,
Speaker 1: and I, you know, just consumed the special features on
Speaker 1: all the special extended edition of the DVDs of the movies,
Speaker 1: and there is DVDs were gorgeous. They were they were
Speaker 1: like a book. Yeah, because that was like when DVDs
Speaker 1: were having in the moment, and I remember we got
Speaker 1: surround sound and it was like that that when you
Speaker 1: first got surround sound, Like that was like my family
Speaker 1: sprung for like a nice DVD player with surround sound,
Speaker 1: and it was like The Lord of the Rings is
Speaker 1: one of the first movies we watched because it was
Speaker 1: like designer specifically to create that experience and just fully
Speaker 1: immersed in the world. Um. But liv Tyler talks about
Speaker 1: how she took lessons in Elvish and like how to
Speaker 1: pronounce it? And I, you know, I pause it everywounded
Speaker 1: and rewatch that and pause it rewounded and rewatch it.
Speaker 1: I was like, so I was desperate to be an elf.
Speaker 1: That was your choice. I wanted to be an elfit
Speaker 1: a hobbit or you know, I mean the Hobbits? Are
Speaker 1: you know there? Listened? They changed changed the world the world.
Speaker 1: Were you horny for Orlando Bloom as legalists? And I was?
Speaker 1: And I was at I knew there was something about
Speaker 1: that Orlando Bloom at the time. I think the character
Speaker 1: that I did just find myself drawn to the most
Speaker 1: was liv Tyler as our one, because she iconically sort
Speaker 1: of wrote up on that horse and took out the
Speaker 1: sword and said, if you want him, come and claim him.
Speaker 1: And I was like, that is the badass girl boss,
Speaker 1: Queen of y. And it says that in the in
Speaker 1: the character description in the books, it's girl boss, hot,
Speaker 1: hot but approachable queen Elf strang skincare legend. Yeah. Gwyneth
Speaker 1: Paltrow brunette type, what what is your what is um?
Speaker 1: What is your favorite film of the three? It's really
Speaker 1: hard to say. I think it would have to be fellowship,
Speaker 1: just because that's the one that started it all for me,
Speaker 1: started at all, started at all, but I was just
Speaker 1: emotionally totally walloped by all three of them. Love them all.
Speaker 1: Two Towers, boy, because two Towers is where like it
Speaker 1: starts to pick up the ring. It's a bit of
Speaker 1: a slog, that's the only thing it has going against it.
Speaker 1: And once you get to two Towers, that's when that's
Speaker 1: when it's like the juicy stuff you you know, Surman's deal.
Speaker 1: Um yeah, a owen come helms deep. It really gets
Speaker 1: going and the ends like tree Beard Like it's like
Speaker 1: like I fucking two Towers is where like the world
Speaker 1: starts to build out. More like like when the fact
Speaker 1: that they split up, I'm so horny for Like what
Speaker 1: a beautiful for it too, I'm horny for it. I
Speaker 1: get the healthy I think. I just to speak of
Speaker 1: horny is like I kind of appreciate a climax, So
Speaker 1: you know, I'm gonna love twelve climaxes, which is why
Speaker 1: I love Return of the King because it famously has
Speaker 1: about forty five endings. Yeah, like it's so epic and
Speaker 1: so like just like metaphorical je squirt cinematically and multiple,
Speaker 1: multiple cinematic orgasms. It will be that and so. But
Speaker 1: but I also appreciate the Two Towers because sort of
Speaker 1: like the reason why my favorite Star Wars is actually
Speaker 1: in both trilogies. Empire Strikes Back and The Last Jedi
Speaker 1: are my favorites because I feel that's when they actually
Speaker 1: do the emotional work, Like the emotional work happens in
Speaker 1: those middle films of the Clones too. Of course, of
Speaker 1: of course an attack of the Clones as well the
Speaker 1: other great cinematic masterpieces. Absolutely, we're totally agreed on that.
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you, like, because you so love
Speaker 1: Lord of the Rings and so appreciate that world, does
Speaker 1: that mean that you are more susceptible to other types
Speaker 1: of cinematic worlds Allah, your Star Wars, You're Harry Potter,
Speaker 1: You're all these types of things? Or do you find
Speaker 1: yourself comparing it to the Big Mama that you love
Speaker 1: so much and therefore everything pails in comparison? Like where
Speaker 1: do you Avatar? Even? Like where do you fall on
Speaker 1: this scale? Once again? I mean I I think, I
Speaker 1: mean if if I'm sort of in the center, I
Speaker 1: think the because centrist, I'm like Bob. Yeah, a centrist, centrist, centrist, queen,
Speaker 1: Queen Kamala, etcetera. The one isn't wearing a shirt right now?
Speaker 1: Into the cart again, that Queen Kamala. And then below
Speaker 1: it it's just her laughing, a really big laugh. And
Speaker 1: below it it says Janet yelling, girl boss. That's what
Speaker 1: it says. A picture of Kamala Harris. Yeah, she's wearing
Speaker 1: her pride jacket. Oh got it? Okay, yeah, um, gotta
Speaker 1: got it. Lord of the Rings is the cent I'm
Speaker 1: sorry we keep cutting you on, no please, I I
Speaker 1: love it. I thrive on it. Yes, I think Lord
Speaker 1: of the Rings is that sort of like constantly what
Speaker 1: everything will be compared to, however, when it is a
Speaker 1: really specific, well structured, well built out world. And does
Speaker 1: it help that it's like a period piece, like a
Speaker 1: piece that takes place in some in some long forgotten past. Yes.
Speaker 1: And I think that's what I love so much about
Speaker 1: Harry Potter too, is that that world, while it is
Speaker 1: like modern, it's also has such a deep history and
Speaker 1: there's still so many elements of it that feel very
Speaker 1: like locked in this specific period of time. Yeah, it is,
Speaker 1: it is. It is weirdly enough a period piece. Yea,
Speaker 1: it is one of the rings, though I will always
Speaker 1: admire how he they just they just kept it at three.
Speaker 1: I mean there's like still Merillion, there's Hobbit, there's like
Speaker 1: all the other stuff. But it's like he did not
Speaker 1: want to mess with like the core of what he had.
Speaker 1: And then because now you have jakere Rolling like appending
Speaker 1: all this stuff on too, I don't even count her
Speaker 1: as a human being in the past six years. I
Speaker 1: would like to stop her narrative where where where Yeah,
Speaker 1: she's just I'm actually I've actually completely moved on from
Speaker 1: anything she has created in the past five years or
Speaker 1: will create in the future. I'm fine. The Harry Potter
Speaker 1: books are important to me, and they stay frozen and
Speaker 1: amber as what they are, the piece of work they are,
Speaker 1: and I don't need her ever Again. Dana Radcliffe put
Speaker 1: it best. But um, yes did today to click hold
Speaker 1: it a thing where um the saga continues, Aker Rolling
Speaker 1: reveals Okay, wait, let me let me just pull it
Speaker 1: up because because I just I just think it's I
Speaker 1: just think it's really used to think it was funny
Speaker 1: whenever she'd tweet like and by the way her Mayonne
Speaker 1: cousin that was adopted from South Korea. It's just like
Speaker 1: this is kind of like, okay, cool, thank you j K.
Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden, she's a transphob Yeah, horrifying.
Speaker 1: So it's this, it's this ClickHole graphic that says the
Speaker 1: saga continues. J K Rolling has revealed that the man
Speaker 1: still Team six thought was Osama bin Laden was actually
Speaker 1: Professor McGonagall using a poly juice potion, and the real
Speaker 1: Osama bin Laden teaches Sex said at Hogwarts and then
Speaker 1: did you did you read every tweet in the thread? No?
Speaker 1: Did you read? Wait? Okay, it's gonna take a minute,
Speaker 1: but I can, I can? I please read the whole thing. Okay,
Speaker 1: this is These are all JK rolling tweets and one
Speaker 1: giant thread that clickholes like doctor Okay, this is JK
Speaker 1: rolling tweeting. And two thousand nine, Professor McGonagall woke up
Speaker 1: in the middle of the night and said, I have
Speaker 1: a good idea. Then she drank apollo juice postion continue.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I might not make it through this.
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. The Colleges potion containing osamaban Land's eye
Speaker 1: last which turned her into a perfect people like of him,
Speaker 1: and then she flew to it, and then she flew
Speaker 1: to a Badabad, Pakistan. On a broomstick, McGonagall find Osamavan
Speaker 1: Laden McGonagall find some of the Landon's compound. On map
Speaker 1: quest one, Osamoman Laddon sees a duplicate of himself standing
Speaker 1: at his front door. He says, you're me, Let's get married.
Speaker 1: So Saman Osama and McGonagall, who has morphed into some
Speaker 1: get married the next day. Professor McGonagall continues drinking the
Speaker 1: Osamaban polly juice potion every day so she always looks
Speaker 1: like him. When the people of Abadabad see Professor McGonagall
Speaker 1: walking around, they stay there goes either Osamaban Laden or
Speaker 1: his wife, who has of Osama bin Laden. Professor McGonagall
Speaker 1: and Osamaban Laden are completely indistinguishable from one another. Professor
Speaker 1: McGonagall starts calling herself Osama bin Laden and calling the
Speaker 1: real Osamaban Laden Osamaban Laden Jr. It's impossible to tell
Speaker 1: which is which. While she's living her life as Osama,
Speaker 1: McGonagall keeps doing weird which things. She buys like fifty
Speaker 1: and kills them for spells. She tosses the carcasses into
Speaker 1: a big barrel in the yard labeled Osama bin Laden's
Speaker 1: dead owls. She also helps run out kind of things
Speaker 1: continue like this for about two years, but then Steel
Speaker 1: Team six notices the barrel of al carcass is labeled
Speaker 1: Sama bin Laden's Dead owls outside the compound and figured
Speaker 1: this is probably where Osama bin Laden is hiding. Okay,
Speaker 1: should I finish these? And how much longer are there?
Speaker 1: What a story? No? Okay, everyone that I've I've I've lost,
Speaker 1: I've lost my audience already. Go on the Clickle Instagram
Speaker 1: and read the rest of the tweets. It's beautiful. Well,
Speaker 1: I'm happy anyway away, thank you. J K. Wait, no,
Speaker 1: hold on, before we before we move on from Lord
Speaker 1: of the Rings? Did have have you read? Have you
Speaker 1: read the Sillmarillion? Have you readde I've tried. I got
Speaker 1: a little ways into the Summerlian. But but and this
Speaker 1: is something that we wanted to capture with Jane in
Speaker 1: the book that she was writing, where there there is
Speaker 1: such the thing about the Summerlian is it's it's of
Speaker 1: course so beautifully written, all the books are, but they're
Speaker 1: so detailed, that it really you really have to be
Speaker 1: in a certain mindset to like absorb that information and
Speaker 1: not have it totally um bog you down. So I
Speaker 1: did want that to be part of like Jane's book,
Speaker 1: is that the history is so detailed that anybody who
Speaker 1: is kind enough to ask her about it will immediately
Speaker 1: regret it and get lost and like not be able
Speaker 1: to follow anything she's saying because it's so specific and
Speaker 1: and there's too much going on. Yeah, there's like a
Speaker 1: running gag throughout the movie where they keep returning to
Speaker 1: just Marry in process explaining her book to whoever her
Speaker 1: captive audiences, and it does it's funny every single time.
Speaker 1: So I guess what what what I'm saying and what
Speaker 1: I know Bowen is saying. I know it's certainly what
Speaker 1: Mary is saying is that you gotta watch Happiest Season.
Speaker 1: It will make you feel so good and also not
Speaker 1: for nothing. But I felt really um excited about telling
Speaker 1: my parents about it, Like I was, like, you gotta
Speaker 1: watch Happiest Season. And I really think that they'll enjoy it.
Speaker 1: It's really good family fun and also it feels like
Speaker 1: it's for us to you know what I mean, Like it.
Speaker 1: It's really it delivers in many different ways and also
Speaker 1: ultimately primarily number one is that it will get you
Speaker 1: in the mood and it will make you laugh and
Speaker 1: feel good. And if you're someone who wants to you know, Munch,
Speaker 1: Kristen Stewart's box, it's really for you. It's so thank you,
Speaker 1: Oh my god. And I feel as though, bo it
Speaker 1: might be time. I think it's time, it's time for
Speaker 1: I don't think so, honey. So Mary is a veteran
Speaker 1: if I don't think so honey, not only as a
Speaker 1: subject of and I don't think so honey. I've been
Speaker 1: on both sides. You've been on both sides. You've both
Speaker 1: been ripped apart by the form, ripped the form apart.
Speaker 1: At our iconic l a show which Bowen was not
Speaker 1: able to attend, but I co hosted with Jokin Booster
Speaker 1: during a rainy fucking night in downtown, it was it was.
Speaker 1: It was so much. Remember that I knew that that
Speaker 1: night was rainy. I think you guys were telling you,
Speaker 1: Oh my god, it was it was. It was wasn't
Speaker 1: even just rainy. It was like like hysterical, which is
Speaker 1: the rarest of things. We never get that that never happens.
Speaker 1: It was a magical night only when I fly the
Speaker 1: funk out to do a show downtown. Yeah, right, but
Speaker 1: it was. But we did have a good crowd and
Speaker 1: it was such a fun show, and Mary was amazing
Speaker 1: and I got to meet all the wild horses, ladies.
Speaker 1: We were we were all there. We were running free. Yes,
Speaker 1: ashes were sort of you know, mating in the wilderness
Speaker 1: as it were. Thank God too. Um but so she's
Speaker 1: really attacked it from all angles and um, she will
Speaker 1: do the same, but not before me and Bowen Yang do.
Speaker 1: I don't think so, honey, which is a six second
Speaker 1: rant on something in pop culture that we hate currently
Speaker 1: I love it or always? Um, do you have do
Speaker 1: you have one? I do? I do have a thing. Okay,
Speaker 1: this is Matt Rodgers. I don't think so, honey. His
Speaker 1: time starts now. I don't think so, honey. Being preoccupied
Speaker 1: with the Saved by the Bell Selena Gomez joke about
Speaker 1: the kidney transplant. Okay, let's get the funk over it,
Speaker 1: because it's not actually a joke at Selena Gomez expense, Honey,
Speaker 1: it's a joke about gossip about celebrities. Okay, Man and yes,
Speaker 1: they apologize, so can we fucking move on. It's a
Speaker 1: hilarious show. It's Tracy Wigfield that's created the room is incredible.
Speaker 1: A friend of the pod, Dwayne Perkins is a consulting
Speaker 1: producer and he's so on the show and it's very
Speaker 1: funny on it. Literally the show is hilarious. The younger
Speaker 1: kids are amazing, The older cast is incredible. Mario Lopez
Speaker 1: is hotter now at forty seven than he was at twenty.
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Berkley's great, Mark, Paul Goslar and Tiffany Theesson are
Speaker 1: just as hot, just as funny. They make They make
Speaker 1: Governor of California Zack Morris the villain of the show,
Speaker 1: which is a genius move because he's like a conservative
Speaker 1: like governor. It's hilarious. Josie Toda is a superstar playing
Speaker 1: on a Jason. If you're gonna let some fucking tweet
Speaker 1: that you saw about Selina Gomez just heard you from
Speaker 1: watching it. I don't think so, honey, Thank you so
Speaker 1: a fantastic show. I never Mary, you will be you
Speaker 1: will be gagged. It is so funny, it's it's like
Speaker 1: it's really it gives you thirty rock type humor, like
Speaker 1: like there are jokes in it that like every character
Speaker 1: has Also I will say, um, oh god, I forget
Speaker 1: his last name. His first name is. Last name is who?
Speaker 1: But he plays mac Michael Mitchell Mitchell who This kid
Speaker 1: is killing it really like and also the leads are
Speaker 1: really fun. Um so Funcary Velasquez, she's so good Scary
Speaker 1: Vlaska estimation. She plays Daisy Um. The girl who plays
Speaker 1: Aisha is amazing. The girl uh, the guy who plays
Speaker 1: Um uh like a lot of it. It's like Jamie Spano.
Speaker 1: It's like Jesse Spano's like a lot of their kids
Speaker 1: that kind of step into who they were. Like he's
Speaker 1: like the A C. Slater of the show. Like truly,
Speaker 1: it's so funny. Every character is really fun and Josie
Speaker 1: tode Is steals the whole thing and she's slag on
Speaker 1: a level that is like star is born moment and
Speaker 1: we need to get her on the show. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: so impressive that you gotta watch. Yeah, you gotta, you
Speaker 1: gotta it's so impressive. How there's it's it's juggling this
Speaker 1: like really like current self aware story um for premise,
Speaker 1: Like oh, like like an underfunded school has to merge
Speaker 1: with um like very overprivileged school and that's like Bellevue, Yeah,
Speaker 1: which is which is what bay Side was, Always Side
Speaker 1: always was. But then but then you also have to
Speaker 1: like balance this story, like the B c D stories
Speaker 1: with the parents or with the like the former students.
Speaker 1: Like it just it juggles so many different balls that
Speaker 1: it's s been so many different plates at the same time.
Speaker 1: It's so impressive how it comes together. Just the conceit
Speaker 1: of it is so smart. Like I just loved how
Speaker 1: immediately they were Like Zach Morris is the villain who's
Speaker 1: put them all in this situation. It's just it's so
Speaker 1: good and he doesn't shy away from it at all.
Speaker 1: He's like, no, they're there. They all have such a
Speaker 1: they still have such a handle on their characters, and
Speaker 1: like they make a lot of jokes about like the
Speaker 1: caffeine pill addiction and like the sort of after school
Speaker 1: specialness of the original Staved by the Bell, Like it
Speaker 1: really is sort of like a pleasant ville ish vibe
Speaker 1: where it's like this world where these kids that go
Speaker 1: to Bay Side live is completely different from the world
Speaker 1: of like the inner like the underprivileged kids that come
Speaker 1: into the school and it's just really fun. And it's
Speaker 1: also like the central best friendship is between Mac Morris
Speaker 1: just like this white blonde Zack Morris type and um Daisy,
Speaker 1: who is the like Latino girl who's like class president.
Speaker 1: She comes in and that's like to to, I just
Speaker 1: really love that you see all sorts of a typical
Speaker 1: relationships to the show. You know, the quarterback is a
Speaker 1: girl of the football team. Like it's just goofy and fun.
Speaker 1: And imagine the world that's like where the rules are
Speaker 1: really heightened and played by the plays by those rules
Speaker 1: really well, and the jokes are great and and I
Speaker 1: just I I never thought I would enjoy it as
Speaker 1: much as I did, But I really recommend it and
Speaker 1: want people to sort of move past this silly, little
Speaker 1: throwaway joke they made about Selena Gomez in the sixth episode,
Speaker 1: because it's like it's a shame because you look it
Speaker 1: up and it's every news story and it makes me mad.
Speaker 1: It's just like it's a funny show. The Peacock or
Speaker 1: are your Universal NBC also just like don't like apologize,
Speaker 1: like they spoke with Selena's people, they don't need to
Speaker 1: her to one of her charities it's all good, like
Speaker 1: I mean, we're we're we're already past it just on
Speaker 1: a moral level. Yeah, I just want people to watch
Speaker 1: it because it's it's great and there's a lot of
Speaker 1: great young talent in it, and um, all right, so
Speaker 1: Bo and Yang, are you ready to sort of unleashure.
Speaker 1: I don't think so, honey. This is I don't think so, honey,
Speaker 1: And as time starts now, I don't think so, honey.
Speaker 1: The finale of Great British Bake Off, it was so
Speaker 1: irresponsible of you to have to carry Laura through to
Speaker 1: the final. It was so irresponsible because she was having
Speaker 1: emotional breakdowns every single round, because she was doubting herself
Speaker 1: the entire time. She You should have let her go
Speaker 1: weeks and weeks ago. She we will have fond memories
Speaker 1: of Laura as a contestant, but to put her through
Speaker 1: the final ed to just have her sort of there
Speaker 1: the entire time when she's just doubting herself at every time,
Speaker 1: and responsible you could have pushed her meantrough the final.
Speaker 1: You could have pushed her through the final. I mean,
Speaker 1: either there's something flawed in the elimination um structure of
Speaker 1: b B B of g B B O where people
Speaker 1: who slip up one time get sucked over. Um. It
Speaker 1: ends up making for like lackluster finalees where there is
Speaker 1: such an emotional, high stake season of bake Off with
Speaker 1: the COVID of it all. For some reason, it felt
Speaker 1: so underwhelming. Congratulations to Peter, the youngest winner in history,
Speaker 1: but overall just an irresponsible finale. And that's one minute Wow,
Speaker 1: great great British person. It's hard to say. First of all,
Speaker 1: we have to say, we have to say it's a
Speaker 1: it's a real it's really close to number I'm sorry
Speaker 1: to say. Five Great British is hard to say, and
Speaker 1: we have to say that. We have to say it
Speaker 1: because no one else will. What were your thoughts on
Speaker 1: the finale? Mary, I I really understand where you're coming
Speaker 1: from home. I really do, because I do think that
Speaker 1: there were it was indicated very early on that like, um,
Speaker 1: there's so much talent there of course, but you know,
Speaker 1: as far as like being able to like get through
Speaker 1: that high pressure situation and and have the kind of
Speaker 1: the confidence of like a Pile or a David like that,
Speaker 1: that is really challenging. And I have to say I
Speaker 1: agree with your opinion. And what's awful is that everyone
Speaker 1: came after this this girl Laura because this fan favorite
Speaker 1: Herman had been eliminated, and so everyone was attacking this
Speaker 1: girl Laura after the semi final episode and then like
Speaker 1: Paul Hollywood, people from the show. I would go on
Speaker 1: in social media bea like, guys, cut it in. That's awful.
Speaker 1: I just think, like it's it's somehow like most seasons
Speaker 1: of bake Off are like no, like the reason why
Speaker 1: you watch the shows because there's no drama, right exactly,
Speaker 1: it's so pleasant. It's so pleasant, and yet there's all
Speaker 1: this like there are all these heightened emotions around it,
Speaker 1: um that I guess have have to do with COVID,
Speaker 1: but like with the lord of it all. Like I
Speaker 1: like I thought she she she had great all season,
Speaker 1: but you know it first it seemed such a choice
Speaker 1: to carry her through the final instead of someone like her, mean,
Speaker 1: who was so consistent and tragically slipped up on a season,
Speaker 1: on on a week that she should have excelled at,
Speaker 1: which was partissory week. She's this French baker and um,
Speaker 1: a lot of pressure pressure, but she and she like
Speaker 1: ditched so Matt, she like for the the show stopp
Speaker 1: her challenge, like the big climactic challenge of the week. Um,
Speaker 1: she decided to scrap her original plan and do something
Speaker 1: completely never different. Experimental did not end up going for her,
Speaker 1: and this was a specialty of hers, and she decided
Speaker 1: to try to. Yes, she was, she was friends, she
Speaker 1: tried to. She and like the judges were like Hubris
Speaker 1: Hubris once again, Icarus again flying flying too close to
Speaker 1: Hubris once again once again, and gentlemen Hubris and once
Speaker 1: again and again and Cubris hub Actually kind of think
Speaker 1: that's an iconic. I think that's name Humus is a
Speaker 1: great stage name. Who who wants it? I'm calling? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I would say to all reality show contestants, um, if
Speaker 1: it ain't broke, don't fix it, ad just stay of
Speaker 1: the course, y'all. I always also feel like with any
Speaker 1: reality show, it's like whenever there's like the fan favorite
Speaker 1: or like the underdog that gets tossed in with people
Speaker 1: that actually have a run at the win, I think
Speaker 1: it makes finale is less fun to be honest with you, like,
Speaker 1: I just think like like it. It feels like every
Speaker 1: reality show that's competitive lately, there's always an upset, like
Speaker 1: there's always just like someone that makes it into the
Speaker 1: finale because it's gonna be nice to see them there,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Like for me, that was
Speaker 1: Crystal Method on Drag Race. For me that was Nelly
Speaker 1: on Dancing with the Stars. It sounds like it was
Speaker 1: this individual on Great British Breakoff, where it's just like, yes,
Speaker 1: we understand they were an important part of the season,
Speaker 1: that was fun, but this is the finale, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, Like, let's let the competitors compete. And
Speaker 1: I understand that it is subjective and I'll probably get
Speaker 1: dragged still by the Crystal Method fans, but uh, but
Speaker 1: that's just the way I feel. I feel like I
Speaker 1: feel like like at the end of you know, for example,
Speaker 1: an American Idol, that's why you don't want to see
Speaker 1: Kelly versus Justin. You want to see Kelly versus Tamira.
Speaker 1: This is, of course, a seventeen eighteen year old season
Speaker 1: of a television show I'm bringing up, but I'm stating
Speaker 1: still litigating only on peca. Yeah, and no, if you
Speaker 1: want a title that's harder pronounced, harder to pronounce than
Speaker 1: Great British Bake Off, it's still litigating. Honest with you,
Speaker 1: it's easier to say than great British bakeoff. Okay, still litigating.
Speaker 1: I think it's time, really, it is time. It's time
Speaker 1: for a Mary Holland. My god, this is huge, I
Speaker 1: guess as ready as I'm ever going to be. All Right, Okay,
Speaker 1: where's the thing? I have the phone in my hymn?
Speaker 1: Okay and the one way? How how are you feeling?
Speaker 1: By the way you said you were, you were feeling
Speaker 1: kind of sick before. I feel a little better now.
Speaker 1: I've been really blitzing my body with like vitamins and
Speaker 1: totally totally her time starts now. I don't think Hey,
Speaker 1: I don't think so, honey, Mary not being able to
Speaker 1: access her rage because because guess what, Mary, guess what?
Speaker 1: You got asked to be a guest on this amazing podcast,
Speaker 1: and you know that part of the poet is you
Speaker 1: have to rant about something that you don't like, that
Speaker 1: you hate, and how come you can't access that? What
Speaker 1: is what's in the way for you where you can't
Speaker 1: You're trying to think of something and you can't think
Speaker 1: of anything. Last time you did it, you know what
Speaker 1: you did? You talked about how you don't like it
Speaker 1: when suddenly somebody gets by a bus or a car
Speaker 1: in a movie, how you don't like that? And that's
Speaker 1: when you ranch it about and then that how could you?
Speaker 1: Why can't you? Why can't you get there? You are
Speaker 1: able to get there with so many other emotions, but
Speaker 1: you're not able to get anger or with you know,
Speaker 1: you know, and look and it's not okay. You gotta
Speaker 1: get better. You gotta do better. You gotta you know
Speaker 1: what stands and and and you remember it's you're okay, wow, okay.
Speaker 1: So I just want to say something that's one minute
Speaker 1: not even in your I don't think so, honey, that
Speaker 1: was directed at your own self. Could you get that mad?
Speaker 1: You ended it with and you're okay, you're not. You
Speaker 1: can't access rage. It's a problem. I really yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: are you on, I'm once again, I'm centrist, once again,
Speaker 1: once again, I'm centrist. Centrist. Wait are you when? When?
Speaker 1: When it's the angriest you've ever been your whole life?
Speaker 1: I can tell you exactly it was when? And I
Speaker 1: think that this is maybe the cause of it subsequently
Speaker 1: being buried and made for um for eternity. Is I
Speaker 1: was like six years old, and um, my parents had
Speaker 1: some friends over and their kids over to watch the
Speaker 1: Super Bowl. I'm wrapped, wrapped, wrapped, um. And they were
Speaker 1: the adults were like watching the Super Bowl in uh In,
Speaker 1: like this little TV room Marrio with the door clothes,
Speaker 1: and the kids were all out, We're all playing with
Speaker 1: each other. And my brother did something that made me
Speaker 1: mad for some reason. And I, um, you know, as
Speaker 1: a child and an adult, I'm very emotional, very like
Speaker 1: sensitive and tuned in, and so I was really upset.
Speaker 1: And the other kids were there, were all older than me,
Speaker 1: and I think to them it was just like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, the baby is crying again, and that sort
Speaker 1: of um dismissiveness. It it um hit me. It deep, deep,
Speaker 1: deep in my core. And I remember I was I
Speaker 1: was like freaking out and my sister, my sister said
Speaker 1: to my brother. I'm the youngest of three. Uh So
Speaker 1: my sister said to my brother, go get mom and dad.
Speaker 1: She's you know, she's freaking out. She's like losing it.
Speaker 1: And uh my brother went in to like get get
Speaker 1: my parents attention, and he was, you know, like a boy.
Speaker 1: I feel like he was ten at the time, and
Speaker 1: he said to my parents. He said, um, uh, mom, Dad,
Speaker 1: it's that time of the month again. And I didn't know.
Speaker 1: I didn't know what that meant. He was just making it, Yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: it really did not. He clearly did not know what
Speaker 1: it meant. He heard it off television. Any thought, this
Speaker 1: is when women get crazy once a month. Well, I thought,
Speaker 1: I took that to me. I took that to me,
Speaker 1: and here we go, Mary's having her you know, monthly
Speaker 1: freak out and like like that was the thing the
Speaker 1: family talked about and I got so mad that I
Speaker 1: project ale vomited. Oh my god. Well that's probably why
Speaker 1: you're afraid to get angry. You don't want to ruin
Speaker 1: all your things. That's a power. Find a silk sin first.
Speaker 1: I don't want to ruin You've decorated your home with silks.
Speaker 1: You don't want to be projectile vomiting on them. I
Speaker 1: think it's actually, if you had to be incapable of
Speaker 1: expressing an emotion, anger is probably a good one to
Speaker 1: be incapable of accessing and expressing. It feels like there's
Speaker 1: an aspect of myself that I'm not able to know
Speaker 1: and not able to like, um, have the courage of
Speaker 1: my convictions, I think because of it because I don't, Uh,
Speaker 1: It's not like I really have to dig to like
Speaker 1: get to the place where I want to protect a
Speaker 1: vomit again, you know what I mean. And I just
Speaker 1: want to get back. I just want to get bad,
Speaker 1: I know. But you you do like you lose control.
Speaker 1: Like I think part of anger for anybody is losing control,
Speaker 1: and that is that is like a little scary. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I feel like also it's tough when you are someone
Speaker 1: who um has had to hide emotions because it reveals you.
Speaker 1: Um Like, when I was younger and still to this day,
Speaker 1: when I get angry and I feel like I've expressed anger,
Speaker 1: something i'll do a lot to a lot of people
Speaker 1: is be like, was I justified in doing that? Was
Speaker 1: that okay? Like? Was I too much? Was this? Because
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm used to hiding myself in an
Speaker 1: emotional state because I think it reveals or it revealed
Speaker 1: a truth about me, which probably is gayness that I
Speaker 1: was afraid of as a young person. Nowadays, it's like,
Speaker 1: I'll try to take space because I think what you're
Speaker 1: saying is important. It is important to know when to
Speaker 1: put your foot down and for yourself and stand up
Speaker 1: for yourself. But I am seldom without the question after
Speaker 1: of was I justified in the way I behave Oh
Speaker 1: my God constantly? Yeah, I feel that same way, and
Speaker 1: I don't know how to. And that's interesting to hear
Speaker 1: you talk about that, because I I really thought that
Speaker 1: that was something that most people are able to, like
Speaker 1: get angry and feel confident in that emotion and how
Speaker 1: it's expressed, because it truly every emotion. I'm like, was
Speaker 1: that too much? Like? Well, you were told that it
Speaker 1: was at a formative age, So I don't think. I
Speaker 1: don't think it's you obviously have this memory which has
Speaker 1: imprinted on you, which is you got so upset, and
Speaker 1: what everyone's response to it was don't take her seriously,
Speaker 1: which is which is something that could stay with you
Speaker 1: for a long time. And so it's honestly good that
Speaker 1: you remember where it came from, because that's that's everything,
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, yeah, did you know this was therapy?
Speaker 1: How much do I owe you? Guys? Wow? Okay, Bowen
Speaker 1: is a centrist. I was going to do it for free. No,
Speaker 1: I want four hundred. No. One has recently become more
Speaker 1: comfortable with his own anger. I love that I have,
Speaker 1: I have, but I would have like but my my
Speaker 1: relationship with anger is weird because I've always been told
Speaker 1: within the family at least, that it's like you get
Speaker 1: that from your dad. You get that, you get that
Speaker 1: from your dad, and my dad when he gets angry,
Speaker 1: it's wild And when I get angry, it's even wilder.
Speaker 1: And I fully lose control and like I will go
Speaker 1: through I have I think in like my teen years
Speaker 1: gone through like rage blackouts, not where I would hurt anybody,
Speaker 1: but where I would like just my eyes leave my
Speaker 1: body because I was so so, so so so angry. Angrying. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's overpowering. It's an overpowering emotion. Yeah, and you lose control.
Speaker 1: For me, that's what's scary. Do you find that as
Speaker 1: an actor, um, while maybe anger is not your thing,
Speaker 1: do you find the other emotions easier to access, because, like,
Speaker 1: like I, I actually quite there. Yeah. Your character in
Speaker 1: the movie is a comedic role, but there's actually quite
Speaker 1: an emotional um turn that happens towards the end of
Speaker 1: the movie, which honestly caught me by surprise because you
Speaker 1: do such a good job at blending in and just
Speaker 1: being comedic relief that it's It's like when something big
Speaker 1: happens to your character, it's like, of course this character
Speaker 1: feels this way. Of course this character has access to
Speaker 1: the entire spectrum of human emotion. And you know, whether
Speaker 1: it's because she's the youngest in the family and hasn't
Speaker 1: been taken seriously and maybe that's something you identify with
Speaker 1: the middle child rather sorry m but being the being
Speaker 1: the one that that wasn't taken seriously um has repercussions
Speaker 1: on the character and her emotional moment. Not to give
Speaker 1: too much away, but um, but do you find as
Speaker 1: an actor like that it's easy for you to access
Speaker 1: emotions like is it for me? For me, it's tough.
Speaker 1: For for me. It's like sometimes I feel like that's
Speaker 1: what makes me someone that's very good at playing close
Speaker 1: to myself. But then when it comes to playing other emotions,
Speaker 1: I find that to be a lot harder than it looks. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I I am able to dip into it, but I
Speaker 1: think I'm generally a very very sensitive person. Um, it
Speaker 1: doesn't take me, it doesn't take much for me to
Speaker 1: to um get there, get there. But I also think
Speaker 1: that I have I really feel a a level of
Speaker 1: safety when I'm playing a role to like to go
Speaker 1: to places that in my life I might not necessary to, like, um,
Speaker 1: like within VIEP like that that character was so annoyed
Speaker 1: at everything and that that's not me at all, but
Speaker 1: I it was so fun. It's almost like I get
Speaker 1: to exercise those feelings as long as I have the
Speaker 1: safety of like it's okay, this is a character. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's like babysitting or it's like it's like being
Speaker 1: in an aunt with like your nieces and nephews were like,
Speaker 1: it's just temperary. I get to hand back the child
Speaker 1: after this is done, right right? Yeah? Maybe, yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1: I think I think for sure it's like you don't
Speaker 1: have ownership over what you've done because it wasn't exactly
Speaker 1: just like it's not your kid and it doesn't matter
Speaker 1: what happens when you watch it, right, that's what you
Speaker 1: were saying. Yes, I'm like Hugh Grant in the undoing.
Speaker 1: Um you know what, Okay, I just this is kind
Speaker 1: of this is just an acting thing that I has
Speaker 1: really resonated with me. Recently. I was watching interviews with
Speaker 1: Anya Taylor Joy. Yeah, and I think they were there
Speaker 1: someone was asking her like what her process was or whatever,
Speaker 1: and she was just like, you know, like I used
Speaker 1: to be really concerned about like and this is what
Speaker 1: I'm concerned about all the time, and this is so
Speaker 1: shallow and stupid. But whenever I'm like on camera, I'm like,
Speaker 1: is my face doing the right thing? And then I've
Speaker 1: had this thought constantly. But then she wasn't on the tylor.
Speaker 1: Joe wasn't directly addressing this, but she was like I
Speaker 1: had an acting teacher tell me once, as long as
Speaker 1: you have the thought, you're you're going to do the
Speaker 1: right thing as long as you are, which I guess
Speaker 1: is like is that Meisner, I guess or whatever. I
Speaker 1: don't know what it does sound mesnary Um. Yeah, that
Speaker 1: that you don't need to control any other aspect is
Speaker 1: just like just organically be in the moment and just yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: just like supplanned the thought into your head of like
Speaker 1: I'm angry, I'm going to think of an I'm going
Speaker 1: to think of something that would make this character angry
Speaker 1: and then be angry, and that's going to that's going
Speaker 1: to translate, and that'll sell it. She is, she is
Speaker 1: the queen of you. You look at her. She has
Speaker 1: the queen of gambits. First of all, we should say
Speaker 1: like she really doesn't. And I say this in a
Speaker 1: in a in a way where I'm so impressed by her,
Speaker 1: but doesn't take her much to transfer a lot, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like she is truly brilliant micro expressions.
Speaker 1: She's she really is. Yeah, yeah, she's amazing in the
Speaker 1: queen's game. But famously Bowen took me to see Thoroughbred's
Speaker 1: a few years ago and I was blown away. But
Speaker 1: she was so good. Oh, it's really good. And the
Speaker 1: other girl is really good to I believe her name
Speaker 1: is Alicia Cook. That I believe that could that could
Speaker 1: be wrong. She's excellent, she's fantastic. But it's like just
Speaker 1: a really good, really tense, um funny, dark dark, dark,
Speaker 1: dark comedy that they are amazing, and they played teen
Speaker 1: girls who um horse girls. They delay teen horse girls
Speaker 1: who get together after several years of being apart, after
Speaker 1: one of them has been in a juvenile detention facility
Speaker 1: and the other one, who's continued to live her life,
Speaker 1: starts tutoring her, and it's about their relationship and what
Speaker 1: they decided to do together. So it's really really, Oh
Speaker 1: my gosh, you had me at Teen Horse Girl. Yeah.
Speaker 1: But uh, speaking of speaking of Teen Horse Girl, I mean, wait,
Speaker 1: one thing, Wait one thing I wanted to I wanted
Speaker 1: to just bring up you want to interlocking I did. Yeah, Okay,
Speaker 1: I didn't know that. So that's like a prestigious performing
Speaker 1: arts big school, y'all. So that's why we have the brilliance.
Speaker 1: I say, she understands the process. Yeah, she is aware
Speaker 1: that she has trouble accessing her anger because of the
Speaker 1: interlocking background. I mean, you're not wrong, you're not wrong
Speaker 1: about that. Um yeah I did. I went there my
Speaker 1: last two years of high school. Did you love? Oh
Speaker 1: my god? It was heaven. It was just kind of
Speaker 1: like do fun. Yeah, I wish, I wish, I wish
Speaker 1: anyway we turned out, we turned out, Okay, we turned fine.
Speaker 1: Um but yeah, but uh, we'll have to have that
Speaker 1: discussion on another episode where you come back. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: this was so fun and I'm so and Mary's going places.
Speaker 1: I bet you anything. Oh, I mean, come on, we
Speaker 1: have just just so excited for you. For everyone to
Speaker 1: see this, I mean, I'm sure everyone that is seeing
Speaker 1: it is all talking about how amazing you were in
Speaker 1: it and then finding out that you wrote it probably
Speaker 1: is a big old but you did, and I'm happy.
Speaker 1: A season is available to stream right now on Hulu,
Speaker 1: and um, it'll make you feel really good and it
Speaker 1: will make you laugh and like I said, feel in
Speaker 1: the season. And it even inspired me to get a tree.
Speaker 1: And you can to the ultimate compliment, Oh my gosh. Um,
Speaker 1: but I thought in this season as well, he's not
Speaker 1: because he famously has no room in his apartment, not
Speaker 1: even for the Christmas gift. I hi, oh birthday gift
Speaker 1: rather birthday gift. Well, I will eventually. We don't have
Speaker 1: to do this new No, we don't. What we do
Speaker 1: have to do is end with the song. To end
Speaker 1: with a song, which is we end all episodes. Okay, good, okay,
Speaker 1: what song? It's the most wonder we got. It's happy.
Speaker 1: Oh my god. If you want to hear more of
Speaker 1: that song, there were so many notes and Andy Williams
Speaker 1: on Spotify now Mariah Carey of the mail, Mariah Carey,
Speaker 1: Christmas is his his time time, A new rivalry