Speaker 1: Welcome to a good game with Sarah Spain where we're
Speaker 1: trying not to judge the grunters in tennis, but we're
Speaker 1: really not fans. It's Wednesday, November twentieth, and on today's show,
Speaker 1: we'll sit down with one of the greatest tennis players
Speaker 1: of all time, one of the most influential Americans of
Speaker 1: the twentieth and twenty first centuries, and truly the goat
Speaker 1: of women's sports equality and advancement, the one.
Speaker 2: And only Billy Jean King.
Speaker 1: Plus reindeer games, good boys who just want to play ball,
Speaker 1: and rookie hardware.
Speaker 2: It's all coming up right after this.
Speaker 1: Welcome back, slices and greetings once again from Malaga, Spain.
Speaker 2: Here's what you need to know today.
Speaker 1: The Billy Jean King Cup Finals conclude today and we
Speaker 1: are excited to be in the building to watch the
Speaker 1: showdown between Italy and Slovakia. In case you haven't caught
Speaker 1: any of the action yet, here's how the event works.
Speaker 1: During each round of competition, nations go head to head
Speaker 1: in a best of three format featuring two singles matches
Speaker 1: followed by one doubles match if necessary. Countries get a
Speaker 1: point for each match they win two points you advance.
Speaker 1: Slovakia will be going for its first win at the
Speaker 1: event since two thousand and two and second win all time,
Speaker 1: while Italy will be going for its fifth in history
Speaker 1: to the NWSL. Leading up to Saturday's championship, the league
Speaker 1: is announcing all of the end of season awards, including
Speaker 1: Rookie of the Year, which went to Washington Spirit midfielder
Speaker 1: and Friend of the Show Croy Bethune. If you missed
Speaker 1: her interview in yesterday's show, go back and take a listen.
Speaker 2: A busy couple days for Croy.
Speaker 1: She was also announced as part of the league's Best
Speaker 1: Eleven and Second Best Eleven, which honors the top twenty
Speaker 1: two players in the league.
Speaker 2: Withoon made the first team.
Speaker 1: Saturday's finalists the Orlando Pride and Washington Spirit, along with
Speaker 1: semi finalist Scot The FC led the league with five
Speaker 1: players from each team earning either first or second team honors.
Speaker 1: Also coaching honors announced on Tuesday, with Orlando Pride coach
Speaker 1: Sub Hines earning Coach of the Year. He led Orlando
Speaker 1: to a league best record of eighteen two and six
Speaker 1: with a club record forty six goals while allowing just
Speaker 1: twenty tied for the lowest conceded goals in the league
Speaker 1: this year. He took over in June of twenty twenty
Speaker 1: two as the interim coach and has already become the
Speaker 1: all time winningest coach in Pride history with a thirty one,
Speaker 1: thirty and twelve record and led the Pride to the
Speaker 1: most points in a season sixty, most wins in a
Speaker 1: season eighteen, longest win streak eight and longest unbeaten streak
Speaker 1: twenty three in a single season twenty four total all
Speaker 1: and WSL records.
Speaker 2: More footy news.
Speaker 1: US Soccer on Tuesday announced that Washington Spirit owner Michelle
Speaker 1: Kang has pledged thirty million dollars over the next five
Speaker 1: years to support the development of girls and women's soccer,
Speaker 1: with the donation helping support talent identification camps and more.
Speaker 1: Per US Soccer, the donation will quote create over one
Speaker 1: hundred thousand new opportunities for girls and women in soccer
Speaker 1: and quote double the number of national team camps that
Speaker 1: currently runs, equating to six camps per age group for
Speaker 1: youth national teams end quote to basketball, Unrivaled has announced
Speaker 1: the six head coaches for the inaugural season WNBA fans
Speaker 1: will recognize a couple names on the list. There's Teresa Weatherspoon,
Speaker 1: the Naysmith Hall of Famer who most recently led the
Speaker 1: Chicago Sky in twenty twenty four, and Nola Henry, who
Speaker 1: was an assistant coach with the Los Angeles Sparks this
Speaker 1: past season. The other coaches include former MNBA Los Angeles
Speaker 1: Lakers assistant Phil Handy, former MNBA player Adam Harrington, prominent
Speaker 1: professional skills coach DJ Sackman, and Washington Mystics player development
Speaker 1: assistant coach Andrew Wade. In College field Hockey News, or
Speaker 1: as Meisch wrote, NCAA faky, which listen me, I'm warming
Speaker 1: up to vibes. I will consider vibes, but under no
Speaker 1: circumstances will I ever let you make faki happen field hockey.
Speaker 2: We're just gonna call it field hockey anyway. The final
Speaker 2: four is set.
Speaker 1: North Carolina, Saint Joseph's, Northwestern and the University of Massachusetts
Speaker 1: are playing in the semi finals this Friday, with the
Speaker 1: championship game on Sunday. Friend of the Show Aaron Matson's
Speaker 1: UNC squad had a pretty uneventful journey to qualify for
Speaker 1: their fifteenth Final four in the last sixteen years. The
Speaker 1: Tar Hills open the tournament with a four to oh
Speaker 1: win over Delaware, followed by a three to nothing victory
Speaker 1: against Duke. In Pro Hockey news, the PWHL may be
Speaker 1: coming to a city near you. On Monday, the league
Speaker 1: announced its PWHL Takeover Tour, a slate of nine neutral
Speaker 1: site regular season games that will be played in a
Speaker 1: variety of locations across the US and Canada.
Speaker 2: The US cities on the tour.
Speaker 1: Include Seattle, Denver, Detroit, Raleigh, Saint Louis, and Buffalo, and
Speaker 1: stops in Canada will be in Quebec City and Vancouver.
Speaker 1: The news comes after the PWHL announced that it plans
Speaker 1: to expand to eight teams as early as next season,
Speaker 1: so it's likely that a couple of these cities could
Speaker 1: get a full time team in the very near future.
Speaker 1: We'll link to the tour schedule and tickets in our
Speaker 1: show notes and also sends manifestations to places that I
Speaker 1: want to go as worked before. Wow, Vancouver, wouldn't I
Speaker 1: just love to see a PWHL game in Vancouver. Just
Speaker 1: put it out there to the WNBA. Per reporting from
Speaker 1: Anti costable. The Chicago Sun Times, the Seattle Storm is
Speaker 1: investigating its coaching staff for alleged player mistreatment, including harassment
Speaker 1: and bullying related to on court performance. According to the
Speaker 1: Sun Times, the team has hired a law firm to
Speaker 1: look into the allegations, which include incidents at practice and
Speaker 1: during games this past WNBA season. Noel Quinn is currently
Speaker 1: the head coach of the Storm and has been since
Speaker 1: former coach Dan Hughes retired in twenty twenty one. Quinn's
Speaker 1: assistants this past season were former WNBA player Ebonie Hoffman,
Speaker 1: longtime head coach and assistant Pokie Chapman, and Perry Hwang.
Speaker 1: Will keep you updated as more reporting on that comes out.
Speaker 1: One last note from the last few days of jam
Speaker 1: packed sports news. Skier Mikayla Schiffrin earned her record extending
Speaker 1: ninety eighth career World Cup win on Saturday at the
Speaker 1: FIS World Cup slalom event in Levy, Finland, to give
Speaker 1: herself the chance to compete for victory number one hundred
Speaker 1: on home soil, with two upcoming races in Killington, Vermont,
Speaker 1: on November thirtieth and December first. Now this is news
Speaker 1: on its own as Schiffrin continues to add to her
Speaker 1: unmatched resume. But my favorite part of this particular win
Speaker 1: is that the levees on the tour includes a special prize,
Speaker 1: perhaps my favorite of all the spoils of victory. No,
Speaker 1: not the Santa Claus that celebrated with Schiffrin, although that
Speaker 1: was a delight as well. My favorite prize is that
Speaker 1: you get a baby reindeer. It stays in Finland, but
Speaker 1: it's named by the winner, and Schiffrin's heard from past
Speaker 1: victories at the event already includes Rudolph Svenn, Mister gru Ingemar, Sonny,
Speaker 1: Lorax and Grogu, and on Sunday she announced that the
Speaker 1: latest edition will be named.
Speaker 2: Rory, short for Aurora Bori Alice.
Speaker 1: Someone gotta start writing a new version of the song
Speaker 1: because Mikayla's almost there, you know, Lorex and Grogu and
Speaker 1: Sonny and Spenn. You get where I'm going with that. Anyway,
Speaker 1: we got to take a quick break when we come back.
Speaker 1: The Queen of Malaga, Spain, Billy Jane King. We are
Speaker 1: here in Malagas, Spain, in the BJK offices adjacent to
Speaker 1: the courts and joining us now she really needs no introduction,
Speaker 1: but she deserves one. So here's a life of greatness
Speaker 1: in a nutshell. Former number one tennis player who won
Speaker 1: thirty nine Grand Slam titles and the infamous Battle of
Speaker 1: the Sexes in nineteen seventy three, International Tennis Hall of Famer,
Speaker 1: the first female athlete ever named Sports Illustrated Sportsmen of
Speaker 1: the Year, Presidential Medal of Freedom, and Congressional Gold Medal winner.
Speaker 1: The USTA National Tennis Center in New York City was
Speaker 1: renamed the USTA Billy Jean King National Tennis Center in
Speaker 1: two thousand and six, and in twenty twenty, the FED
Speaker 1: Cup was renamed the Billy Jean King Cup. A pioneer
Speaker 1: for equality and social justice, She's founded the Women's Sports
Speaker 1: Foundation in nineteen seventy four. She's an owner investor in
Speaker 1: countless teams and companies, including the Dodgers, Sparks, Angel City FC,
Speaker 1: the PWHL, and Just Women's Sports. After meeting her, Charles
Speaker 1: Schultz started highlighting issues of women's sports in the Peanuts
Speaker 1: comic and Elton John wrote the song Philadelphia Freedom for
Speaker 1: She's an icon, She's a hero.
Speaker 2: It's Billy Jean King BJK. What's up?
Speaker 3: That's pressures Sarah hard to get.
Speaker 2: It all out that quick. There's too many things I
Speaker 2: would pick from.
Speaker 3: Elan and I really love your show, so thank you
Speaker 3: so much.
Speaker 2: We love to hear from you. Every time you email,
Speaker 2: they're listening.
Speaker 4: You do your research, which is most people don't, especially
Speaker 4: young reporters. A lot of times will come and you
Speaker 4: end up just educating them the whole time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's okay.
Speaker 4: That's how you keep learning from each other, and I
Speaker 4: always learn from others. It's fantastic.
Speaker 1: The history matters, though, to contextualize. In order to know
Speaker 1: what we're watching now, we have to know how it
Speaker 1: fits into the larger and that's the biggest thing for
Speaker 1: women's sports right now, is giving people enough information to
Speaker 1: care and understand what they're watching.
Speaker 4: Well, this is what I always say by his story.
Speaker 4: The more you know about history, the more you know
Speaker 4: about yourself. But most importantly, it helps you shape the future.
Speaker 4: It's shaping the future, I think probably reason I love
Speaker 4: history so much, but I've always love history, even as
Speaker 4: a child.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So I want to ask you the most important thing first,
Speaker 1: which we ask every tennis guest.
Speaker 2: It's a contentious question. What color is a tennis ball.
Speaker 3: What color is it?
Speaker 4: The ones we play with, they're probably yellow, probably well
Speaker 4: yellow gold, whatever people want to look at it, yeah,
Speaker 4: whatever they want to get an answer, it's usually yellow
Speaker 4: in our I think most tennis players would probably say yellow.
Speaker 3: Is that right?
Speaker 2: There is no answer.
Speaker 4: In the old days, they were white when I played
Speaker 4: in the beginning, and then we changed in the seventies.
Speaker 1: We're in Malaga, Spain at the Billy Jean King Cup
Speaker 1: formerly known as the FED Cup, renamed in your honor.
Speaker 1: You want it ten times in your career with Team USA.
Speaker 1: What makes this event so special?
Speaker 4: Well, I grew up in team sports and this is
Speaker 4: a team event. And most people think of tennis only
Speaker 4: as as an individual sport.
Speaker 3: It's not.
Speaker 4: It's really both. There's mixed doubles, doubles, singles. I like
Speaker 4: doubles better than singles. I've always played all three events
Speaker 4: when I when they had them available, like at the Majors.
Speaker 4: And I just love playing for your country. There's there's
Speaker 4: something about when you play for your country. You're playing
Speaker 4: for something much bigger than yourself. You're representing your country
Speaker 4: where you most people grew up.
Speaker 3: It's heavy. I mean it's good heavy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, it's a privilege.
Speaker 1: It is.
Speaker 2: I love it.
Speaker 3: You know how that came about.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we heard the story that he was open. We
Speaker 2: told it on our show. Yeah, I love that story.
Speaker 2: That's in this event.
Speaker 4: It's a Federation Cup. It's called Federation Cup. It started
Speaker 4: in nineteen sixty three. I was on that team. I
Speaker 4: was nineteen. I was the second best player. Darling Hard
Speaker 4: was our best player, and Carol Colbo was our third player.
Speaker 4: And we had sixteen teams that were invited just to
Speaker 4: try it. It was the fiftieth anniversary of the ITF,
Speaker 4: the International Tennis Federation, and it was at Queen's Club
Speaker 4: and we're supposed to play outdoors on the grass, but
Speaker 4: it rained, so we went indoors and of course on
Speaker 4: the boards it was so fast, Bob. We were down
Speaker 4: match points against Australia Margaret Smith now, Mark Smith Court
Speaker 4: and Leslie Turner Leslie Turner Bowery now and we were
Speaker 4: down match points and we won because I kept yelling
Speaker 4: all week to the players, our players in our group,
Speaker 4: that we have to win the first one because when
Speaker 4: we look at the Cup the rest of our lives,
Speaker 4: we'll be able to see that we won the first
Speaker 4: and they kept saying, Oh, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 3: I look at him and give him this stare in
Speaker 3: the long rooms. Are you kidding? This is history?
Speaker 4: Of course I love history, right, and I knew ten
Speaker 4: twenty thirty years later. If they look at the Cup
Speaker 4: and they see USA first, like hello, and so here
Speaker 4: I am. I'm eighty years old. It will be eighty
Speaker 4: one next week. And it's like if I look at
Speaker 4: the Cup, I see USA first.
Speaker 3: And I'm like hello. It still feels good and I
Speaker 3: remember the story.
Speaker 4: I remember being now match points and how exciting it was,
Speaker 4: and Carol and I played all week in doubles, and
Speaker 4: yet at the finals, our coach, our captain, mister Kellogg,
Speaker 4: who was a tennis official, changed it up and said, no,
Speaker 4: Darlene and Billy have to play, and it was the
Speaker 4: right thing to do.
Speaker 3: It's like putting eg in the doubles here this year.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you have to put your best players.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about this year because we got the chance
Speaker 1: to watch incredible matches between Poland and Italy and what
Speaker 1: you just mentioned about the energy and the vibes, it's
Speaker 1: so spectacular to hear drums and tambourines and chants things
Speaker 1: you don't really hear at tennis termas because of the groups.
Speaker 4: WI I wish jennis tournaments would do that. Yeah, like
Speaker 4: the the beck of our shirts. I think we should
Speaker 4: have numbers. Actually the players do have numbers, like in Australia.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1: It's a very different atmosphere than the average tournament. But
Speaker 1: also it's it's interesting to kind of get a perspective
Speaker 1: on the state of tennis in different countries. And of
Speaker 1: course not always the best players are available to play.
Speaker 1: But this year Team USA got knocked off by Slovakia.
Speaker 1: They haven't won since twenty seventeen players. Yeah, was it
Speaker 1: just a matter of we didn't have.
Speaker 4: The best players and I don't know why, but we're
Speaker 4: going to find out.
Speaker 1: We know that this event this year was supposed to
Speaker 1: be in Sevilla, it ended up getting moved here to Malago,
Speaker 1: which is also the site of the Davis Cup. Is
Speaker 1: that something in the future you'd like to see is
Speaker 1: both in the same place at the same time. I
Speaker 1: know in this case it caused the creation of this
Speaker 1: incredible bubble in order to play while the men are
Speaker 1: in that original facility over there. If you had a
Speaker 1: place where you could both be in a Really I
Speaker 1: love it.
Speaker 4: When the men and we were together. Yeah, I think
Speaker 4: it's one of the pluses we have in our sport.
Speaker 4: We started in the late teen hunts with men and women,
Speaker 4: which I think teed it up culturally, and I think
Speaker 4: that was a real blessing looking back at history, because
Speaker 4: you don't want to have to fight to start having
Speaker 4: them together and not together.
Speaker 3: And the majors have them together. It's a better event.
Speaker 4: It's worth a lot more money than if they're single tournaments.
Speaker 4: And I think from a business point of view, you
Speaker 4: have to look at that, how do we keep getting
Speaker 4: people excited, how do we get younger people in our sport.
Speaker 4: It's important to keep track of the average age of
Speaker 4: the spectators because like baseball, for instance, got up into
Speaker 4: the fifties and now they're back down in the forties.
Speaker 4: They made some changes, made it tighter. We need to
Speaker 4: think like that. And tennis is tough, you know, it's
Speaker 4: very traditional. You know, I grew up in basketball, track
Speaker 4: and field. Well, actually the things you did besides the
Speaker 4: tennis you played as well, and so I came from
Speaker 4: that and tennis.
Speaker 3: Was a rude awakening.
Speaker 4: It is a child, because well, look at the scoring.
Speaker 4: I think it should be one, two, three four. How
Speaker 4: do you get new kids in the game. I mean
Speaker 4: they come to watch and I've never been in tennis.
Speaker 4: And my coach starts saying, well, let me explain the scoring.
Speaker 4: It's fifteen love.
Speaker 3: Thirty the I know forty five, right.
Speaker 4: They go, No, I go and I'm eleven years old,
Speaker 4: And I said to him, this is the stupidest, great English,
Speaker 4: the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Now I know, I'm
Speaker 4: like a lot of kids. I don't come from tennis.
Speaker 4: My family's on in tennis. And if you are in
Speaker 4: tennis as a child, you still want to make it fun. Yeah,
Speaker 4: And I think when you start tennis you should be
Speaker 4: put on a team.
Speaker 3: Just put them on a team.
Speaker 1: They can be a great make it less individual less
Speaker 1: in the beginning, because it's about relationships, and the best
Speaker 1: relationships I still have today probably from the players I
Speaker 1: played Federation Cup with or Billy Jinking Cup with.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's so great to see the teammates sort
Speaker 2: of cheering each other on.
Speaker 1: And I imagine if you had the Davis Cup and
Speaker 1: the Billy Jean King Cup together, not only could you
Speaker 1: have them occurring simultaneously in their current iteration. But then
Speaker 1: you could have that one last game of mixed doubles,
Speaker 1: one of the playing each other.
Speaker 2: I'm just listen, I want to change the scoring, Billy.
Speaker 2: I'm try changes as big the troubles.
Speaker 3: You have to have the two teams. It would be
Speaker 3: tough part.
Speaker 4: But the Italian men came last night. Yeah, yeah, no,
Speaker 4: I say, guys came over to watch them.
Speaker 1: It's been a very cool scene, not only the tennis
Speaker 1: but also the recognition of Rafa here in Spain as
Speaker 1: he's retiring, and then the activations, the food trucks, the brands,
Speaker 1: everybody getting involved in.
Speaker 2: It was the fan fest, that's yeah, the fan fest.
Speaker 1: It was really cool to see, like the ELF activations
Speaker 1: or both inside the tournament where you're watching them get
Speaker 1: the fans excited and having dance offs and playing music
Speaker 1: and stuff. Let's just helping y, let's help some help
Speaker 1: some stuff up. But they also had these really cool
Speaker 1: activations outside. And you know, you've been fighting for investment
Speaker 1: in women's sports for years and I'm wondering how different
Speaker 1: your brand relationships in twenty twenty four. Are brands that
Speaker 1: you're working with like ELF. How different is that for
Speaker 1: you compared to your early years when you were seeking
Speaker 1: sponsor support.
Speaker 4: Well, there must they really do help promote it better.
Speaker 4: And the ones we had days, I must say Philip
Speaker 4: Morris was amazing.
Speaker 3: I don't smoke.
Speaker 4: I went nuts when we got them, and I end
Speaker 4: up loving every one of them. Are still friends within
Speaker 4: that anybody who's still alive, because they really cared about
Speaker 4: us and really helped further our mission. And that's what
Speaker 4: we're finding with ELF and the other sponsors. Game Bridge
Speaker 4: has been amazing. Greenbridge is our main sponsor, and they're
Speaker 4: the reason we get equal prize money with the men.
Speaker 4: They're very big on equality. And then they also have
Speaker 4: a parody that belongs to Gamebridge. Some of the athletes
Speaker 4: will be here and then we're having our you know
Speaker 4: most you know, women's Sports Powerful Summit for the first time,
Speaker 4: which I've been wanting to do for years and really
Speaker 4: emphasize sports.
Speaker 3: I've be gone to Fortune, I've gone to Forbes. I
Speaker 3: every time I.
Speaker 4: Go, I go, You've got to have a sports part
Speaker 4: of this because sports business, especially women is just now
Speaker 4: in its infancy of really taking off and exploding. I mean,
Speaker 4: we were at four percent media content and then five
Speaker 4: were kind of got excited. Right now, we're fifteen and
Speaker 4: I think we're supposed to be at twenty five by
Speaker 4: next year.
Speaker 3: There's more money.
Speaker 4: I think we can maybe go up to a billion
Speaker 4: dollars a minute at two point seven billion, I think.
Speaker 3: And we're on our way now, We're just on our way. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: The women. I was in Australia for the long and
Speaker 3: I were there for the World Cup of Soccer. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I know. I always has dandy football. I'm alga to
Speaker 3: say football and.
Speaker 2: I say footy now and then it sounds like a
Speaker 2: real insider.
Speaker 3: Foot is that? No, that's Australian rules.
Speaker 1: Well, in the US, the US women say footy because
Speaker 1: they know that people will roll their eyes at football,
Speaker 1: but they don't.
Speaker 2: Like to say soccer.
Speaker 4: If you say footy in Australia, it's really came from footy,
Speaker 4: came from Australia with Australian Australian rules football. Yeah, so
Speaker 4: when they say footy, they're not really being accurate. It's
Speaker 4: fun though, Yeah.
Speaker 1: So we're watching all this growth around women's sports, and
Speaker 1: we were recently together at the fiftieth anniversary celebration of
Speaker 1: the women's.
Speaker 3: Sports Yeah, that's right. Yeah, and you want to know.
Speaker 2: You founded it back in nineteen seventy four.
Speaker 1: The videos looking at the decades of both the mens
Speaker 1: of women athletes, but also what was going on socially
Speaker 1: and politically during all those times, was really powerful to watch.
Speaker 1: And I'm wondering, when you look back at the fifty
Speaker 1: years that have passed, are you more excited about how
Speaker 1: far we've come or are you more disappointed that we're
Speaker 1: fighting some of the same battles still?
Speaker 4: Probably both, But I always look forward. I've always been
Speaker 4: somebody I read history and know the past because I
Speaker 4: know want to shape the future, and so I'm always
Speaker 4: in the future. I mean, if you talk to Alana
Speaker 4: and she'll say, oh God, Billy's always thinking about where
Speaker 4: we can go, what we should do, how to make
Speaker 4: it better. I'm really painful to be around because I
Speaker 4: look at everything and right we've got a list, a
Speaker 4: long list for next year, for instance, with the Billy
Speaker 4: Jim Kinkob, how to make improvements with the scheduling and this,
Speaker 4: Oh my god, I drive everybody nuts. But I've always
Speaker 4: thought about the future. I always have a vision. A
Speaker 4: lot of times for things like I did for tennis,
Speaker 4: to take it from amateur tennis in the sixties fourteen
Speaker 4: dollars a day to having a circ you know, having
Speaker 4: a tour and having prize money, and then at the
Speaker 4: major's have equal prize money, which took a long time. See.
Speaker 4: Originally I wanted the men and women to be together
Speaker 4: in the late sixties when pro tenn has just started
Speaker 4: in nineteen sixty eight, I said, why don't we have
Speaker 4: tennis associating with the men and the women, And the
Speaker 4: men continually said no, The men boycotted wimbled. In seventy three,
Speaker 4: I went to Arthur Ash and other men and said,
Speaker 4: do you want us to go along with you to
Speaker 4: help with the boycott. I'll go to the women and
Speaker 4: talk to him. I don't know if they'll do it
Speaker 4: to support you. They said no, we don't want you to,
Speaker 4: and I said, well, thank you. You just made us the
Speaker 4: stars of the nineteen seventy three women and then we
Speaker 4: were It wasn't even close. We had all the A
Speaker 4: players in women's tennis there and they didn't have the
Speaker 4: A men because they boycotted. And I appreciated what they did,
Speaker 4: but to always not allow us to be with them.
Speaker 3: I think that's a mistake. I think you're more powerful.
Speaker 4: I think one thing we have going for us culturally
Speaker 4: is that we've had the men and women together forever.
Speaker 3: I think it makes us stronger.
Speaker 4: And I always said to them, it's not what we
Speaker 4: can do to do on the court, but what we
Speaker 4: could do together off the court to make this world
Speaker 4: a better place.
Speaker 3: This is, you know, this.
Speaker 4: Is just a little spect Every sports a spec really,
Speaker 4: but sports are microcosm society. They tell you what's happening,
Speaker 4: and women's sports tells you a lot about where women are.
Speaker 4: And we've got a long way to go. I think
Speaker 4: we're probably gonna go backwards for a while, and women
Speaker 4: have to stand up and say what they want and need,
Speaker 4: which is a really hard thing for girls. I'll never
Speaker 4: forget when I met Mark Walter, who's the Dodgers, owner
Speaker 4: of the Lakers, everything owner for us, and I met
Speaker 4: him in a fundraiser because I do a lot of fundraisers,
Speaker 4: and this was for Camal Murray in the South side
Speaker 4: of Chicago, and he was sitting next to Lana and
Speaker 4: I saw his body language as I was speaking about
Speaker 4: how you know, we're trying to raise money, obviously because
Speaker 4: Comal was making a new tennis center. It's twenty seven.
Speaker 4: It's just beautiful in the South Side. It's absolutely stunning.
Speaker 4: X S's called, and I just saw this guy and
Speaker 4: I didn't know who he was. His body language told
Speaker 4: me something was and so sure enough, right after he goes,
Speaker 4: oh yeah, I want you Nilana to be part of
Speaker 4: the Sparks and this, and I said, now, this is
Speaker 4: unusual for me. In fact, is probably the first time
Speaker 4: really I said, what about the Dodgers, because i grew
Speaker 4: up with the Dodgers. I'm from southern California. My brother
Speaker 4: and I, you know, used to bleed Dodger blue. And
Speaker 4: of course then my brother became a professional baseball player.
Speaker 3: And what happened. The Giants, the rival.
Speaker 4: You know, they don't get to pick every time in
Speaker 4: the draft with them, so they chose them and he
Speaker 4: played ten years.
Speaker 3: I was a picture.
Speaker 4: If you played ten years on the Saramanchisco Giants baseball team,
Speaker 4: you get to be part of their Hall of Fame.
Speaker 4: So Randy's my RJ or whatever. Moffatt, it's our birthday.
Speaker 4: It's up, you know, it's up on the outside of
Speaker 4: the building, the inside of the building. So I loved
Speaker 4: finding where his photo is and the plaque on him.
Speaker 4: And I had so much fun because I love him
Speaker 4: so much, and you know, he's five years younger and
Speaker 4: I wanted a brother or sister so badly, and he
Speaker 4: came along and we just played ball together and has
Speaker 4: so much fun.
Speaker 1: So you'll make an exception for the giants with him,
Speaker 1: but other than that, it's dodged all the way.
Speaker 4: When he went with the Giants, I was giants with
Speaker 4: him as soon as he left him back to Dodger.
Speaker 1: Not only a fan but an owner. You're like, am
Speaker 1: I going to root against your root for your rival,
Speaker 1: but I'm going to own it.
Speaker 3: No. But it's good because it's women. We're gay.
Speaker 4: I mean, you know, they're trying to have more inclusion. Yeah,
Speaker 4: and they're sending very positive messages and we are.
Speaker 1: Seeing this like real, I think see change in the
Speaker 1: last even just a couple years for women's sports. And
Speaker 1: I wonder what surprised you the most.
Speaker 4: I'm not surprised. I've been waiting, so I'm always waiting
Speaker 4: and I'm like, finally, finally, come on, we can do this.
Speaker 4: I think the number of women's sports. People are investing
Speaker 4: in us finally, I mean investing. They think they're going
Speaker 4: to get a return on.
Speaker 2: That opportunity, not support, not a cause.
Speaker 4: Not you know, a charity like we're going to try
Speaker 4: to be nice and help you girls, which is usually
Speaker 4: what we had to deal with. And I think when
Speaker 4: we started our tour back in nineteen seventy one, that
Speaker 4: was that was a true brand investment helping women's tennis,
Speaker 4: and we were by far the leaders golf. The LPGA
Speaker 4: started in nineteen fifty with thirteen members players.
Speaker 3: They started it and their way ahead.
Speaker 4: But in nineteen seventy one, Kathy Whitworth, who was number one,
Speaker 4: made I think around forty thousand, and I made I
Speaker 4: told my former husband Larry, I said in December of
Speaker 4: seventy I go, you know what, I'm going to try
Speaker 4: and make one hundred thousand next year because maybe if
Speaker 4: I can make that money, people will notice our tour
Speaker 4: and start to follow us. Because everyone understands money. Whether
Speaker 4: you're a teacher or factory worker, a billionaire, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 4: Everyone understands money. And so I thought, you know what,
Speaker 4: that's a common denominator. And I said to Larry, if
Speaker 4: I could do that, maybe we'll get more people and
Speaker 4: get some traction for people to watch us. And people
Speaker 4: did start keeping track as you're going to make it,
Speaker 4: not make it. I made it the last week.
Speaker 3: I was really tight. I was in Phoenix.
Speaker 4: I remember everything, and but about killed me because we
Speaker 4: made eighteen hundred dollars.
Speaker 1: When we want a tournaments, a lot of tournaments to
Speaker 1: get done.
Speaker 2: I got that.
Speaker 4: And we had one tournament that had forty thousand dollars
Speaker 4: in Houston at Gladys Hellman, who's responsible for getting the sponsor,
Speaker 4: and we signed a dollar contract with her nine of
Speaker 4: us in nineteen seventy and this is nineteen seventy one,
Speaker 4: and she held a tournament for forty thousand. I don't
Speaker 4: think she knew what she was doing, but I did
Speaker 4: because I think if I can win that, that's ten thousand. Wow,
Speaker 4: that's like four tournaments. I had five tournaments, and I thought,
Speaker 4: unless I win that, I'm not going to make it.
Speaker 4: At the end of the year, I figured it out,
Speaker 4: and so I was totally exhausted because we do.
Speaker 3: A lot of promotions. That's all we did.
Speaker 4: We signed every autograph until the last person left. We
Speaker 4: did media six o'clock radio shows, two o'clock in the morning.
Speaker 4: If we had indoors, I would be talking to a
Speaker 4: magazine person.
Speaker 1: I mean, and that's the case for women athletes a
Speaker 1: lot of times still to this day. It's not only
Speaker 1: do you have to be the best at your sport,
Speaker 1: but you have to help sell the tickets, promote it.
Speaker 1: Not the very highest level of tennis, for instance, but
Speaker 1: oh you look at like PWHL players, that's the first
Speaker 1: year with this year, but I mean hockey players the
Speaker 1: last couple of years, even before the p WHL, they
Speaker 1: had to be the best player in the world. Yes,
Speaker 1: sell tickets, do media from the morning till night of
Speaker 1: the same day that they're playing. And I think that's
Speaker 1: one of the things that's going to change with investment.
Speaker 1: You talked about how sometimes you talk a lota's ear
Speaker 1: off about what's next?
Speaker 2: What's next? You are eighty eighty one next week, you're
Speaker 2: not slowing down? What keeps you going? Instead of saying, Okay,
Speaker 2: I think I'm good, I'm going to relax a little bit.
Speaker 4: Nothing's changed since I was a baby. I mean, I
Speaker 4: don't know if you know my epiphany story. I was
Speaker 4: told yeah, And I was at the Los Angeles Tennis Club.
Speaker 4: I've been playing tennis one year, and I just looked
Speaker 4: around that kind of daydreaming, and I thought, you know,
Speaker 4: everyone wears white clothes, play with white balls, and everybody
Speaker 4: plays as white, and where's everybody else?
Speaker 3: And then I started thinking, you know what tennis is made.
Speaker 3: We're global sport, We're all over the world. This is
Speaker 3: you know. I'm like, this isn't amazing because a lot
Speaker 3: of sports are just us.
Speaker 4: And I thought, wow, this is an opportunity, and I
Speaker 4: wanted to make the world better. And I already knew
Speaker 4: at eleven I was a SEC. I mean at twelve,
Speaker 4: I was a second class citizen. I knew it eleven actually,
Speaker 4: but I also knew my sister's a color, I knew
Speaker 4: my people with disabilities. I knew they were much worse
Speaker 4: off than I was. But by the time you're a
Speaker 4: girl at seven eight, most of the time, I think
Speaker 4: you start to realize this world's for the boys, it's
Speaker 4: not for me, and you're going to have to find
Speaker 4: a way to get in there and have your niche
Speaker 4: and have what's important to you and figure it out.
Speaker 4: But so I may have promised to myself that day
Speaker 4: at twelve, when I had my epiphany that because tennis
Speaker 4: is global and if I could become number one, maybe
Speaker 4: just maybe people might listen. Maybe I'd have a platform.
Speaker 4: I didn't know the word platform, but I was thinking
Speaker 4: platform and visualizing.
Speaker 2: It and influence. You just knew that there was some
Speaker 2: power being great at something.
Speaker 3: When you ask kids today, you go, what do you
Speaker 3: want in them? Be an influencer?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I know, it's it's depressing.
Speaker 3: So it's very depressing. I go, what does that mean?
Speaker 2: Yeah? They go, you know, learn a skill, kid, learn
Speaker 2: an instrument?
Speaker 3: There are They think that is being a skill And
Speaker 3: then they go, well, how many followers?
Speaker 1: All?
Speaker 3: I have one hundred and followers. I'm like, you need
Speaker 3: a little more than so. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean I think there is your through line clearly,
Speaker 1: and anyone who knows your story knows that it's been
Speaker 1: your entire life since you were ten or eleven, looking
Speaker 1: around and thinking what isn't right here?
Speaker 2: And how do I fix it? And I wonder when
Speaker 2: you're looking around, you know.
Speaker 1: We spoke for my podcast in twenty twenty one, and
Speaker 1: you said your biggest dilemma was a lack of time
Speaker 1: you wanted to have another lifetime to keep fighting, start over,
Speaker 1: keep going.
Speaker 3: I want nine lifetime.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I want a hundred.
Speaker 3: It'll be fine than you.
Speaker 2: But I already feel that way as well.
Speaker 1: And sometimes I look back and think, oh, man, I
Speaker 1: wish i'd already been more aware of things even twenty
Speaker 1: years ago, to start fighting even earlier. And for you,
Speaker 1: what are your priorities right now? What's top of the
Speaker 1: list to keep going and doing well.
Speaker 4: I'd like to make the you know not I, but
Speaker 4: we would like to make the Billy Jing can come
Speaker 4: better and better, get more countries, even more than one
Speaker 4: hundred and thirty seven, because there's probably two hundred and ten.
Speaker 4: I think when the ITF the International Tennis Federation, there's
Speaker 4: a federation in every country, and that's grassroots for the kids.
Speaker 4: The young players play the ITF tournaments, the International Tennis
Speaker 4: Federation tournaments, and that's how you start to play tennis,
Speaker 4: and then you graduate to the eighth you know, the
Speaker 4: ATP of the Men's Tour or the WTA tournaments. It's
Speaker 4: there's a real process for kids.
Speaker 2: So there's more places that could be playing an end.
Speaker 2: So I want to get better.
Speaker 4: And tennis is amazing sport. I played all the other
Speaker 4: sports first, and I realized when I started playing that
Speaker 4: I could hit one hundred balls in five minutes.
Speaker 3: I played shortstop, sooptball. Of course, we had to.
Speaker 4: Play softball, not baseball at that time. And then I figured,
Speaker 4: I'm up to bat one every nine times, and I
Speaker 4: can hit a hundred balls in tennis less than five minutes.
Speaker 4: And yet as a shortstop, you're considered you get the
Speaker 4: most action in the infield, right, And I probably this is.
Speaker 1: Clearly a metaphour for your life. I'm sure you understand this.
Speaker 1: You're like, I know what I'm saying. I'm touch the
Speaker 1: ball stop all you were like, oh, I don't get
Speaker 1: to touch the ball enough. In tennis, I get to
Speaker 1: hit a hundred balls, and in life you're like, I
Speaker 1: gotta do one hundred things.
Speaker 2: I got to hit one hundred. Yeah, it's it's it's
Speaker 2: a story for your life. I mean, I love you.
Speaker 1: I love that you're still going and I love that
Speaker 1: you're not settling down because your influences is unmatched in
Speaker 1: this space. And I literally jokingly call you the Forest
Speaker 1: Gump of women's sports.
Speaker 3: If they made a movie, you.
Speaker 1: Would pop up telling Julie Foudy and the ninety nine
Speaker 1: ers how to get started. You would pop up telling
Speaker 1: the p w HL, I'm gonna help launch this league,
Speaker 1: talking to Cammi Granado and the hockey player.
Speaker 2: I mean, every story I hear. Well, we asked Billy
Speaker 2: Jean King, and that's how we got going.
Speaker 4: Well, you know where we met though, we met at
Speaker 4: the Women's Sports Foundation dinner, the gala. Every year, I've
Speaker 4: met every person you mentioned. And Angel rorigueiros I was
Speaker 4: a total superstar in than any Winter Olympics. And she's
Speaker 4: one of my shoe rolls. I've got so many shoe
Speaker 4: ros I love them sports in this field of endeavor,
Speaker 4: and now I've learned of all the different sports you play.
Speaker 4: Now I've got a whole new I'm going to learn
Speaker 4: a lot more.
Speaker 3: But it's just that's where the reason, one of the
Speaker 3: reasons I wanted to start that was for networking.
Speaker 4: You have to people have to put this in perspective.
Speaker 4: We had no phones, we had no social media, we
Speaker 4: had nothing in those days. So how do you get
Speaker 4: the athletes together? So what we did, even at the
Speaker 4: dinner the day before, we got all the athletes together.
Speaker 4: So they could exchange their names and addresses, and all
Speaker 4: of us started talking about our sports and how we
Speaker 4: get help, and I said, you've got to help more
Speaker 4: than your own sport. Most people do not. Most athletes
Speaker 4: only want to help their own their basketball players, I
Speaker 4: only want to help basketball. If I'm a soccer player,
Speaker 4: I want to help soccer. Well, I don't look at that.
Speaker 4: That's why I call the Women's Sports Foundate. I didn't
Speaker 4: call it the Billy Jenkin Foundation called the Women's Sports
Speaker 4: because I wanted every sport, women's sport to feel they
Speaker 4: belonged to this, and they do. It's very important that
Speaker 4: we help each other, not just your own.
Speaker 2: Sport, change the whole landscape.
Speaker 3: Yes, because one affects the other, one helps the other.
Speaker 1: And we've seen for years, we've used tennis as this
Speaker 1: example of like, how do we get more women's sports
Speaker 1: to be like tennis, where there's equal prize money, where
Speaker 1: the expectation of going to see the top women's players
Speaker 1: is as exciting, if not more so, than men. And
Speaker 1: doing that in other sports is a little trickier for
Speaker 1: a number of reasons, but it's given us something to
Speaker 1: aim for because of the work that you did way
Speaker 1: back when.
Speaker 4: Because women's professional tennis, although they had men's pro tennis
Speaker 4: on a contract, proleuce to call it for years, and
Speaker 4: Susan Longlan was really the first pro and back in
Speaker 4: the twenties or was it late even before the twenties,
Speaker 4: but she was our first superstar in the sport.
Speaker 3: Man or women. She was it. When you go to
Speaker 3: Wimbledon and.
Speaker 4: You walk, you get a seat in center Cory. The
Speaker 4: reason they have that center court is because of Susan
Speaker 4: Longland and to a lesser extent, Bill Tilden, and she
Speaker 4: had sold so many tickets at the old Womann Club
Speaker 4: down the street that they had to find land to
Speaker 4: build a bigger place just to accommodate ticket sales. But
Speaker 4: she's the reason they wanted to come to see Susan Longland.
Speaker 4: The way she dressed, the way she plays. She was
Speaker 4: very balletic. She won that helps you got to be winner,
Speaker 4: and she was very mystical for people and just you know,
Speaker 4: she just got that teaching. And I think that when
Speaker 4: the tours started in seventy one, the men just got
Speaker 4: really got started then two whereas if you look at
Speaker 4: the NBA, they're seventy eight years old and the women's WNBA,
Speaker 4: what are twenty eight years old? And people have to
Speaker 4: put that in perspective when they start saying, why aren't
Speaker 4: the women doing.
Speaker 3: As good as the guys?
Speaker 2: I said, are you kidding me?
Speaker 3: And I go, they're seventy eight years old. We're twenty
Speaker 3: eight and they go, oh, I never thought about it
Speaker 3: like that. I said, we're very young. Business.
Speaker 4: Another thing, I was sitting in the stands with David Stern,
Speaker 4: who was the commission He's a market he was a
Speaker 4: marketing genius.
Speaker 3: And the NBA.
Speaker 4: Jerry Buss told my former husband that the NBA was
Speaker 4: going to go under in the late seventies.
Speaker 3: Did they ever talk about that? Of Kars Stocks?
Speaker 4: So what happens in those days they had tape delayed finals.
Speaker 3: So you could watch it two weeks later or whatever.
Speaker 4: So what happened is we got Magic Johnson, Irvin he
Speaker 4: likes to be called, and Larry Bird in the in
Speaker 4: the NCAA finals for the colleges.
Speaker 3: But everybody thinks it's because of them. No, it's not.
Speaker 3: It's because of them.
Speaker 4: And David Stern from the business side, in the marketing,
Speaker 4: he was a marketing genius and he got it, and
Speaker 4: he said, we're going to change this fast forward. I'm
Speaker 4: sitting with David Stern, who loved tennis, played a lot
Speaker 4: at the US Open and the President's box. I'll never
Speaker 4: forget this day. The WNBA had just getting started. I
Speaker 4: turned to David. I said, David, you have to promise
Speaker 4: me one thing. He says, sure, What is it I'm thinking?
Speaker 3: He said, sure? Oh good.
Speaker 4: Please do not let the WNBA fail. You have to
Speaker 4: promise me you will not let it fail because we've
Speaker 4: already had a few leagues, and that always happens in
Speaker 4: every sport. By the way, they act like it's only
Speaker 4: women's sports. That's how No, if you look at men's
Speaker 4: sports or women's sports, you look at the beginning of time,
Speaker 4: it's just that men's sports is so much older, or even.
Speaker 2: Recently XFL is in its third generation.
Speaker 4: It's just it just takes time and you're going to
Speaker 4: have you know, some are going to fail, but they
Speaker 4: still help the sport go forward. It's like a stepping stone.
Speaker 4: It's like the other women's ice hockey leagues helped the PWHL.
Speaker 4: They did so I'm thankful to everyone every generation. But
Speaker 4: the point is that people never talk about how men's
Speaker 4: sports is in trouble financially, but they always talk about
Speaker 4: our failures. And that's very much boy girl.
Speaker 3: They talk about talk.
Speaker 1: Aboutout men's potential versus blaming girls if there isn't an
Speaker 1: instant return on investment.
Speaker 3: And so it's really irritating.
Speaker 4: So once you start to explaining these things, but David
Speaker 4: turning me says, I promise I will not let it fail.
Speaker 3: And guess what, it's still going.
Speaker 2: We have to take a quick break when we come
Speaker 2: back more With Billy Jean King.
Speaker 1: On our last podcast, one of the things we talked
Speaker 1: about was the terrible difficulty you had in coming out,
Speaker 1: and it was terrible and expectations for you as your
Speaker 1: sponsorships and people's view of you, and.
Speaker 3: I lost all my sponsorships.
Speaker 4: Yeah you and already twenty four hours. This is just
Speaker 4: like a slow little drip.
Speaker 3: It was bath. But I knew that would happen.
Speaker 4: During the seventies, I was told if I'd talk about
Speaker 4: what I was thinking and feeling, which I wasn't sure
Speaker 4: who I was. I was trying to find myself my
Speaker 4: sexuality on it, and they said, if you say one thing,
Speaker 4: we will not have a tour, so.
Speaker 3: That made it really easy. I go, I'm not going
Speaker 3: to do that.
Speaker 2: I'm tolding everyone up by having to keep myself.
Speaker 4: But eventually, but eventually, knew it wouldn't matter because one
Speaker 4: individual isn't going to make that kind of difference. Right well,
Speaker 4: in the beginning they think it is.
Speaker 1: I hope that's the case even when the individual as president,
Speaker 1: because I'm curious what you think another Trump presidency might
Speaker 1: mean for the LGBTQ plus community.
Speaker 2: I'm worried about.
Speaker 3: I'm not sure going backwards.
Speaker 4: I don't know. I have no idea. And the Congress
Speaker 4: is all Republican now, which you know, to get the
Speaker 4: gold Congressional Gold Medal, you have to have both parties.
Speaker 4: You can't get that without both. It's very interesting process.
Speaker 4: I didn't know any of this. I an individual. When
Speaker 4: an athlete's never gotten one, which I find extraordinary, but
Speaker 4: a lot of male athletes, I'm sure have it. But
Speaker 4: it's a bipartisan and I.
Speaker 3: Think that's huge. That makes me happy because.
Speaker 4: I'm more of a little person that everyone thinks I'm
Speaker 4: really far left, and I'm not. It's just an assumption,
Speaker 4: but I'm not. I'm much more down the middle than
Speaker 4: people realize, because you've got to be pragmatic.
Speaker 1: It's clearly how you've achieved a lot in your life
Speaker 1: is your ability to appeal to the allies on a
Speaker 1: side that might not see your point of view and
Speaker 1: convince them to come a little bit further over and
Speaker 1: join you. I think it's I think we need both people.
Speaker 1: We need the ones out front that are loudly pushing
Speaker 1: for extremes that maybe the people in the middle don't
Speaker 1: think we're ready for yet, and then we need the
Speaker 1: people in the middle to bring folks along. I think
Speaker 1: about like a I love the Megan Rappinos Sue Bird
Speaker 1: combo because Megan's out front saying, back up the Brinks truck,
Speaker 1: give me all the money.
Speaker 2: We deserve this, and Susan in the middle saying, how
Speaker 2: do we do this?
Speaker 4: How do we get agree with that? We don't just
Speaker 4: deserve anything, not deserve No. No, women get up and
Speaker 4: go we deserve more money. We deserve athletes to do that.
Speaker 4: Men and women, all both genders, are all genders, and
Speaker 4: they'll all get up and say we deserve No, you don't.
Speaker 3: You don't even know about the business.
Speaker 1: What if they do deserve it, though what if the
Speaker 1: occasion if you can improve it business wise?
Speaker 3: Generally, that is not girl.
Speaker 1: They deserved equal pay because the Federation is dedicated to
Speaker 1: the growth of women and girls and boys, and this
Speaker 1: is fair advantage to totally.
Speaker 4: If the Niners hadn't started it, or Pino would have
Speaker 4: not made it okay or been a leader, and followers
Speaker 4: choose leaders. Leaders don't choose followers, so you get the
Speaker 4: Niners starting. God, Julie was funny help king or she
Speaker 4: calls me Julie Foudy was the heart and soul of
Speaker 4: the US team back in the nineties, and she says,
Speaker 4: what are we going to do? And I said, well,
Speaker 4: are you willing to give up something to get something?
Speaker 3: She goes, what do you mean?
Speaker 4: I said, well, athletes always want everything. And they use
Speaker 4: the word I deserve when they don't know the business.
Speaker 4: They have no idea what they're talking about, like even
Speaker 4: getting the equal money from the soccer now.
Speaker 3: And I think the.
Speaker 4: Women deserved it because they do better than the men.
Speaker 4: But why did they do better than the men? Because
Speaker 4: soccer is a new sport in our country, because if
Speaker 4: you look at other countries, the men are doing much better.
Speaker 1: Okay, But the difference also is a federation which is
Speaker 1: a nonprofit versus like no one in the w NBA
Speaker 1: says we deserve NBA money. They say we deserve ex
Speaker 1: percentage or we deserve investment from media and outlets, whereas
Speaker 1: the soccer demands were specific to the fact that they
Speaker 1: were supposed to be supported equally by their own federation.
Speaker 4: You're making me have a lot more questions on which
Speaker 4: is great. That's why that's why engagements.
Speaker 2: Do a show on it bill.
Speaker 3: That's why engagement's really important.
Speaker 2: Let's do a show.
Speaker 4: Do you think the soccer players or the tennis players
Speaker 4: are any athlete really understands the economics.
Speaker 3: I know they don't.
Speaker 1: I think the soccer players do just solely based on
Speaker 1: knowing Bekeru, who is running the women's national players that
Speaker 1: budgets on the should know about. Well, there's association, the
Speaker 1: executive committee. Those players spend years in there creating the
Speaker 1: CBAS more so than I think most men know about
Speaker 1: their leagues. Because they are so important to the fight
Speaker 1: for their own they don't have to worry, well, well,
Speaker 1: the men are making millions regardless, and so they don't
Speaker 1: notice as much the margins. The women have to be
Speaker 1: in creating their own cbas otherwise they are getting screwed.
Speaker 2: So I think actually the highest levers.
Speaker 1: Levels of women players, you know, way more about the
Speaker 1: economic opportunities at play. You think they have to be
Speaker 1: in those meetings for years.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I bet just soccer players. I wonder how many
Speaker 4: probably you got to talk to your tennis players.
Speaker 2: You know, you got to get them in those meetings,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: You we talked about how you've been fighting for this
Speaker 1: stuff for such a long time.
Speaker 4: Racialino and Sue invested their own money, have they.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Sue's a part owner of Gotham.
Speaker 3: That's it. I knew that, and then to watch the
Speaker 3: other night.
Speaker 1: Now that she's that, I think she just became a
Speaker 1: part owner of the Storm as well.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, yeah great, Yeah, I'm not sure about Pino yet.
Speaker 3: See that makes me happy because that's what we want.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they just retired, so I think they're looking around
Speaker 1: trying to figure out, well, that's what their next movie.
Speaker 4: I think they're fantastic super watching her play because I
Speaker 4: love my first love.
Speaker 2: Yeah so much to tell you.
Speaker 1: I want to talk about how you were able to
Speaker 1: fight for some of these things before most of the
Speaker 1: people around you were ready for it. You know, you
Speaker 1: were fighting for women's equality during a time ripe with misogyny.
Speaker 1: You were fighting for racial quality when racism was far
Speaker 1: more mainstream. Although I don't want to get into how
Speaker 1: things are progressing these days, but at the time when
Speaker 1: you were doing all this in the sixties and seventies,
Speaker 1: how do you teach others the lessons of your lifetime
Speaker 1: of advocacy and activism to encourage folks who are scared
Speaker 1: or daunted by the next couple of years, or even
Speaker 1: just by the future, who feel like people are not
Speaker 1: ready for what they want to say.
Speaker 4: Or I constantly get players to I did. I constantly
Speaker 4: got players together and with the hockey league. When kindle
Speaker 4: Quin came to Elanomy said help, would you help us
Speaker 4: start a new hockey league, one that truly treats us properly.
Speaker 4: I'm looking at her like she's five two. By the way,
Speaker 4: finally I'm taller than someone. From a moment, I go
Speaker 4: Elana and I look at each time and go, okay,
Speaker 4: we'll try. It took seven years, but Mark Walter is
Speaker 4: the reason. He and Canberra, his wife are the reason
Speaker 4: it happened. You need someone who believes in the investment. See,
Speaker 4: he believes that he will get a return on his investment.
Speaker 3: Event.
Speaker 4: It's probably a little longer term than men maybe, but
Speaker 4: he believes in it. And the Walter Cup, if you
Speaker 4: look at it, it's one pound heavier than the Stanley Cup.
Speaker 4: But everything Walter.
Speaker 1: Cup, which is the trophy that the PWHL winning team brought.
Speaker 4: It is beautiful and everything on it has a reason,
Speaker 4: Like on the bottom it's the crashing of the glass ceiling.
Speaker 4: It's got every team on it. It's got four little
Speaker 4: things around the hockey stick because four people get to
Speaker 4: the final. I mean, everything's got a reason and assembled
Speaker 4: to it, which I love. And then when the players won,
Speaker 4: you know, the actually Minnesota one, which is odd because
Speaker 4: there were number four out of six teams. But I
Speaker 4: said to Kendall and I said that to the others,
Speaker 4: I said, this thing is so heavy, and.
Speaker 2: They go, are you kidding? Give me that trub the above.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's thirty seven pounds above their abother hand,
Speaker 3: they're scanning all around showing everybody. Everybody's clapping and going crazy.
Speaker 4: Was sold out, I mean it was amazing in Boston
Speaker 4: and I. They passed you know, this trophy to each
Speaker 4: player and they hold it up and I'm like, holy
Speaker 4: come only I'm so old, Like I'm so weak, but
Speaker 4: I just did it.
Speaker 1: Sounds like you were almost surprised we all were the success,
Speaker 1: Like because when I asked about.
Speaker 3: We weren't sure. We don't know what you never hear.
Speaker 1: From your lifetime of advocacy. You jumped in with Kendall
Speaker 1: coming to and you're like, I don't know, I don't
Speaker 1: know if we could do this.
Speaker 3: That's happens.
Speaker 1: Attendance records, broken, enthusiasm, off the charts, expansion already in
Speaker 1: the talks.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's how you got to do it.
Speaker 2: I guess right.
Speaker 3: You got to take a leap as a leap of faith.
Speaker 4: But without Mark, it wouldn't happen. It takes millions, of
Speaker 4: millions and millions of dollars.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the unfortillions part.
Speaker 3: Yeah no, but the players have no clue.
Speaker 2: You need power money.
Speaker 4: The players know it takes a lot, They don't really
Speaker 4: They need to get into the thick of it, you know,
Speaker 4: the real budgets and all that, and that's where it's helpful.
Speaker 4: And when you start to own something. You do start
Speaker 4: to you know, you start to you start to worry
Speaker 4: about that. And but the PWHL is definitely way ahead
Speaker 4: of the game plan.
Speaker 3: We're probably in our fourth year.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we thought we'd be taking four years to say
Speaker 4: you are, and we've been selling out in five to
Speaker 4: ten minutes in the Montreals to Toronto's. You know, it's
Speaker 4: a religion in Canada, but it's the parents and the children.
Speaker 4: Everything I do, I try to, I try to. I
Speaker 4: want a child and girls as particularly because we're way
Speaker 4: behind to have the dream.
Speaker 3: I always explain it that way.
Speaker 4: I want them to have the dream. And the kids
Speaker 4: come over and talk to us and they're crying a
Speaker 4: lot now, and fathers, a lot of fathers go, you know,
Speaker 4: you see that role over there. That's my three daughters
Speaker 4: and I brought them and they just they're so excited
Speaker 4: now they have a chance. They can see themselves as
Speaker 4: maybe being a pro. Because what happens in hockey. The
Speaker 4: the brothers and sisters go to play, like when they're three,
Speaker 4: it's so adorable. And then say when the girl goes
Speaker 4: about ten, they'll say, well you should become an ice skater,
Speaker 4: and she like skatering figure. Well, you know, I keep
Speaker 4: asking them. They say, we like to be got ice skaters.
Speaker 4: Now I'm like, really, I always just thought it was
Speaker 4: figure skating.
Speaker 2: I used to use that to differentiate between like hockey
Speaker 2: and acco.
Speaker 3: And I go, okay, whatever you guys want. I mean,
Speaker 3: I just keep asking.
Speaker 2: Keep me up to day. You're on top of it.
Speaker 4: So anyway, well, I'm going to ask you about We're
Speaker 4: gonna do more on the after we're finished, chair, I'm
Speaker 4: going to ask you more about the budgets and the
Speaker 4: money of the soccers. I still haven't got the answers
Speaker 4: I want. I keep asking everyone.
Speaker 2: I've got the right person think for you. I think
Speaker 2: you But back to hockey, I think you're right.
Speaker 1: What happens is at a certain age they basically the
Speaker 1: girls will play on a boys team for a while
Speaker 1: now an adventually they'll get moved to you kicked off, right,
Speaker 1: But you know.
Speaker 4: What the girls say to their parents, I want to play, yeah,
Speaker 4: I don't want to be a bigger skater. And they
Speaker 4: it's so adorable, they're so cute, and they have all
Speaker 4: these signs that come with and they bring their babies
Speaker 4: that are less than a year old and they put
Speaker 4: the big, you know, ear things over there so they
Speaker 4: don't get hurt because the noise is deafening at hockey
Speaker 4: ice talking and it is just amazing. But I'm really
Speaker 4: proud of the I'm more proud of the players because
Speaker 4: when we first met, I'll never forget them saying, you know,
Speaker 4: we want to do this, And I.
Speaker 3: Said, can you get the top players together?
Speaker 4: It's got to do with tennis too. You have to
Speaker 4: have the top athletes. If you don't have the top athletes,
Speaker 4: it's not going to happen. And I said, can you
Speaker 4: get them? I said, you know Canada and the US
Speaker 4: are always killing each other in the Olympics and the
Speaker 4: World Championships. You know that border that's below Canada and
Speaker 4: above us. I know it divides you, but in this
Speaker 4: it is going to be the opposite. It connects you.
Speaker 4: I said, can you and they.
Speaker 2: Got it together? No, but they got it.
Speaker 3: I said, you guys would be together when it's the
Speaker 3: hockey league.
Speaker 4: You have to think of that as a connector not
Speaker 4: a divider. And they and I came up with it
Speaker 4: just talking to them, and they got it. And that's
Speaker 4: why you keep learning those so you just keep learning
Speaker 4: through these different processes.
Speaker 1: But what's great is that you have the lessons from
Speaker 1: so far back and you keep reapplying them any ways,
Speaker 1: as they stay the same and as they change. You know,
Speaker 1: I want to ask you as we let you go here,
Speaker 1: since I keep talking about you being the Forrest Gump
Speaker 1: of the last eighty years, who is the next Billy
Speaker 1: Jean King? Do you have your site set on someone
Speaker 1: that you're going to demand of them? Hey, I need
Speaker 1: you to pick up the mantle for the next forty
Speaker 1: fifty years.
Speaker 3: I think Soon and Rapino trying to do that. I
Speaker 3: think in their own way.
Speaker 4: I think I heard Rapino in an interview says she
Speaker 4: wants to be a broker. That's basically what we're doing.
Speaker 2: Can we ready to do it?
Speaker 3: We need to have dinner together. Feel's working on ESPN
Speaker 3: all the time and doing all that.
Speaker 4: And yes, I do talk to her, and she's very
Speaker 4: good when we talk, and if we have a goal,
Speaker 4: she gets on it.
Speaker 3: She doesn't she doesn't mess around. She's and she's very bright.
Speaker 3: You know, she could have gone to medical school.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Standford, stand Fanford, girly.
Speaker 4: And she decided no, it would be soccer. I love
Speaker 4: my soccer number eleven center.
Speaker 3: What do you call mid midfield? In the old days,
Speaker 3: we were half you know, Like.
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to get you to call someone out
Speaker 1: right here, right now so that they feel the pressure.
Speaker 4: That is well doing it okay, But I need girl
Speaker 4: women of color to get in there.
Speaker 3: Uh. And they got to think about it. You've got
Speaker 3: to think in the terms of we.
Speaker 4: You cannot say I or I'm just going to help
Speaker 4: blacks or I'm just going to help whites.
Speaker 3: You cannot do that.
Speaker 4: You got to help everybody. Like I'll give you a
Speaker 4: perfect example with the hockey. I said, I will not
Speaker 4: help you unless you get more girls of color and
Speaker 4: ice hockey it's terrible. And there are some clubs of
Speaker 4: girls of color. I said, you've got to get them included.
Speaker 4: You've got to get more clubs or whatever you think
Speaker 4: is going to make it work. But I will not
Speaker 4: help you anymore unless you promised me that before we start.
Speaker 3: They said, we promise.
Speaker 4: I said, okay, let's go, because we have to open
Speaker 4: up our sport to everyone. And whatever sport you're in,
Speaker 4: you need to be inclusive as much as you can.
Speaker 4: And some sports are much harder tennis is all white.
Speaker 4: We've had to work hard, you know. We had THEA
Speaker 4: Gibson in nineteen fifty seven, she won her first Wimbledon.
Speaker 4: She won the French in fifty six.
Speaker 3: She was my Sheiro.
Speaker 4: I'll think Gifton was my absolute first Sheiro in my life.
Speaker 4: And I was thirteen when I saw her play and
Speaker 4: if you can see it, you can be it. And
Speaker 4: when I saw her, because that's what number one looks like.
Speaker 4: I know I'm a white girl and she's black, but
Speaker 4: I saw what it looked like as far as the ability,
Speaker 4: how well you have to play to be number one,
Speaker 4: I went, oh, I don't know if I can ever
Speaker 4: be that good. But my parents always told us that
Speaker 4: every generation gets better.
Speaker 3: I go, God, that means I have to get better.
Speaker 3: How am I going to be better than that? You know?
Speaker 4: And I just remember having this discussion with myself as
Speaker 4: a child at thirteen, going oh, but she was fantastic.
Speaker 4: And then I got to know her and actually included
Speaker 4: her in the Women's Sports Superstars and she won a
Speaker 4: lot of money, which is good. She didn't make a
Speaker 4: lot of money, so I always tried to help create
Speaker 4: opportunities and then we had an exhibition in nineteen sixty
Speaker 4: and I invited her. I said, are you still playing
Speaker 4: well enough not to be embarrassed? And she said, no,
Speaker 4: I'm playing well. And I said, okay, you have to
Speaker 4: come and we'll pay you as much as anybody.
Speaker 3: And she went, really, I'll be there. Are you kidding?
Speaker 3: I need the money.
Speaker 1: Well, you've set that example throughout of inclusivity in a
Speaker 1: way that really is a model for everybody else. So
Speaker 1: you've given a real big job to whoever follows you,
Speaker 1: whether that's Suing Pinot or Founder or whoever are.
Speaker 4: They are, and those three for sure. But which woman
Speaker 4: of color? I was always hoping Cocoa Gough. Yeah, because
Speaker 4: she gave a great speech when she was about sixteen
Speaker 4: and in Florida.
Speaker 3: I heard her and I thought, oh, she's the one.
Speaker 2: She seems ready. I don't know yet, but she seems
Speaker 2: like a prime candidate.
Speaker 4: Big thing is most players don't want to do athletes
Speaker 4: don't want to do this is truly learn the history
Speaker 4: and truly learn how to be inclusive. Athletes today say
Speaker 4: I all the time. I found the first two generations
Speaker 4: say we us, and by the third generation it's I.
Speaker 4: And if we could get the third and fourth and
Speaker 4: fifth and sixth generations to say we and think beyond ourselves,
Speaker 4: especially in an individual like golf, tennis and certain sports.
Speaker 4: I know they're taught to say team, you know in basketball,
Speaker 4: in these sports, but I'm like, do you really feel
Speaker 4: in it?
Speaker 3: Do you really thinking about.
Speaker 4: Taking your sport with you as you go forward? And
Speaker 4: I don't think most athletes, once the league's more mature,
Speaker 4: they don't take the sport with him anymore. They have
Speaker 4: to think we us, where are we going? And you
Speaker 4: can't just seep asking for things to say I deserve it.
Speaker 4: Learn the business before you ask the question, and they don't.
Speaker 4: And that's what I'd like them to think about. And
Speaker 4: when I say learn the business, well, let's say tennis,
Speaker 4: go work in a tournament, Go ask the promoter at
Speaker 4: the end of the week how he or she has done.
Speaker 3: And they've never done that. If every player I've talked
Speaker 3: to I.
Speaker 4: Said, did you get paid? They said, of course I
Speaker 4: got paid. I said, okay, did you ask the promoter
Speaker 4: who's worked all year for this one week and they've
Speaker 4: invested money so they could lose money.
Speaker 3: They look at me like huh, And.
Speaker 4: I go have you asked them how they've done? Not
Speaker 4: one player today as ever said yes, not one. That's
Speaker 4: not good. They need to know is everyone else doing
Speaker 4: all right? Are the sponsors happy? Are the young players
Speaker 4: coming up happy? Are the older players happy? Are are
Speaker 4: the people who run these events and take the risk?
Speaker 3: How are they doing?
Speaker 4: Because if they're not happy, they're not going to say
Speaker 4: I'm not doing this and we're not going to do
Speaker 4: something else with my life, with my money. And I
Speaker 4: don't think people understand the tenuous situation we're in all
Speaker 4: the time.
Speaker 2: It's an ecosystem. Everybody is a part of it.
Speaker 1: That's our great play day is everyone understand the larger ecosystems.
Speaker 1: So it's not just demanding more for the athletes, but
Speaker 1: understanding the business side. So when they demand it, it's
Speaker 1: because they and they deserve it.
Speaker 4: Sorry, I keep Interrupting's got to stop it because I'm
Speaker 4: so excited talking with you. No, I I keep telling
Speaker 4: players you've got They always say to me what should
Speaker 4: I do? And I go learn the business and they
Speaker 4: go I said, I mean, really learn it. Go work
Speaker 4: at a tournament, or go work and work for a
Speaker 4: soccer team, or go whatever, and it's great that Bob
Speaker 4: Iger and Will o'bey have bought Angel Angel CDFC because
Speaker 4: well they're friends of ours anyway.
Speaker 2: And I mean it's like you said, it's.
Speaker 1: We instead of I. That's how you get stuff done. Yes,
Speaker 1: and we have to go, I know, but we have
Speaker 1: to think about others, not just ourselves.
Speaker 3: Agreed.
Speaker 2: Final message is a good one from Billy jin King.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for the time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks so much, sir. It's great to talk to
Speaker 3: you you too.
Speaker 1: Thanks again to BJK for taking the time. We got
Speaker 1: to take another break. We'll be right back.
Speaker 2: Welcome back, all.
Speaker 1: Right, slices, you already heard our good gameplay of the day.
Speaker 1: Billy wants us all athletes especially to learn the business
Speaker 1: side of their.
Speaker 2: Sport and other sports.
Speaker 1: If you've got a great resource, book, article, research study,
Speaker 1: or otherwise about any sport or league that you think
Speaker 1: we could all learn from, send it our way. Help
Speaker 1: us get edumicated, slices, send them a good game at
Speaker 1: wondermedianetwork dot com or leave us a voicemail at eight
Speaker 1: seven two two oh four fifty seventy and don't forget
Speaker 1: to subscribe, rate and review. It's super easy watch a
Speaker 1: very good boy at a tennis match three out of
Speaker 1: three adorably disruptive barks. So at the bunday session of
Speaker 1: the Billy Jean Kingcup between Poland and Italy, a very
Speaker 1: good boy or girl wanted to make its presence felt
Speaker 1: in the stands, barking three times during match play.
Speaker 2: Absolute silence, and then you heard it.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if the Golden Retriever wanted to get
Speaker 1: in the game and grab a tennis ball, or maybe
Speaker 1: was trying to voice support for Team Italy or Team Poland.
Speaker 1: Either way, no shushing pups, even at a tennis tournament.
Speaker 1: Play on now, it's your turn, rate and review. Thanks
Speaker 1: for listening. Slices tomorrow, Potatoes, cheese, stares and shushes. Tales
Speaker 1: from Malaga and the Billy Jean Kingcup. Good Game, Billy
Speaker 1: Jean King, Good game, Golden Retriever, Few air quality in Malaga.
Speaker 2: We love you, but you was Smaggi bitch.
Speaker 1: Good Game with Sarah Spain is an iHeart women's sports
Speaker 1: production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You
Speaker 1: can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. Production by Wonder Media Network.
Speaker 1: Our producers are Alex Azzie and Misha Jones.
Speaker 2: Our executive producers are.
Speaker 1: Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder. Our
Speaker 1: editors are Emily Rudder, Britney Martinez, Grace Lynch and Lindsay Cradowell.
Speaker 1: Production assistants from Lucy Jones and I'm Your Host Sarah
Speaker 1: Spain