1 00:00:15,276 --> 00:00:24,676 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Adrian Linker does know a lot about autism, but 2 00:00:24,876 --> 00:00:29,036 Speaker 1: she does know a ton about big feelings. As the 3 00:00:29,116 --> 00:00:32,436 Speaker 1: lead singer of the indie rock band Big Thief and 4 00:00:32,716 --> 00:00:36,236 Speaker 1: a solo artist in her own right, Adrian is well 5 00:00:36,396 --> 00:00:40,316 Speaker 1: versed in the art of harnessing jumbo sized emotions and 6 00:00:40,476 --> 00:00:44,636 Speaker 1: turning them into something beautiful. So I figured she'd be 7 00:00:44,636 --> 00:00:47,236 Speaker 1: a great person to talk to as I pieced through 8 00:00:47,276 --> 00:00:51,196 Speaker 1: my own large feels. Adrian had just come out of 9 00:00:51,236 --> 00:00:56,076 Speaker 1: her COVID cocoon and was touring her solo album titled Songs, 10 00:00:56,436 --> 00:00:59,756 Speaker 1: when she agreed to talk to a perfect stranger me 11 00:01:00,316 --> 00:01:04,316 Speaker 1: about big life stuff. During our chat, she treated me 12 00:01:04,356 --> 00:01:08,956 Speaker 1: to a brief musical performance over Zoom involving a paper. 13 00:01:09,796 --> 00:01:14,356 Speaker 1: Needless to say, she made my day, month, probably even 14 00:01:14,436 --> 00:01:21,036 Speaker 1: my year. So the song that that I wanted to 15 00:01:21,076 --> 00:01:24,356 Speaker 1: talk about was the single off the album anything. Do 16 00:01:24,436 --> 00:01:29,876 Speaker 1: you remember when you wrote it? M Yes, I do. 17 00:01:30,196 --> 00:01:34,756 Speaker 1: I remember because I was in western Massachusetts in the 18 00:01:34,796 --> 00:01:39,076 Speaker 1: woods and it was pretty close to the time that 19 00:01:39,116 --> 00:01:43,116 Speaker 1: the pandemic hit, and I ended up living in this 20 00:01:43,796 --> 00:01:46,356 Speaker 1: empty cabin that was near where my sister was living, 21 00:01:46,476 --> 00:01:50,836 Speaker 1: and I was going through a pretty painful breakup, and 22 00:01:50,876 --> 00:01:56,756 Speaker 1: I was not expecting to write a bunch of new songs. 23 00:01:58,276 --> 00:02:01,316 Speaker 1: I started the process of recording some of my songs, 24 00:02:01,396 --> 00:02:04,156 Speaker 1: but I had this whole other batch of songs that 25 00:02:04,196 --> 00:02:08,796 Speaker 1: I was meaning to record, but none of them seemed 26 00:02:08,916 --> 00:02:14,036 Speaker 1: to want to be recorded, and and and instead all 27 00:02:14,076 --> 00:02:19,836 Speaker 1: these new songs came through. And that song, I, um, yeah, 28 00:02:19,876 --> 00:02:24,036 Speaker 1: I remember just like writing, and it's kind of just 29 00:02:24,076 --> 00:02:27,396 Speaker 1: like coming out in like one go, like all of 30 00:02:27,436 --> 00:02:31,596 Speaker 1: the words just kind of just like streaming out. And 31 00:02:31,636 --> 00:02:35,476 Speaker 1: then shortly after that, like within the next hour, I 32 00:02:35,556 --> 00:02:39,396 Speaker 1: was recording it. So is it is it lyrics first 33 00:02:39,516 --> 00:02:45,156 Speaker 1: and then instrumentation. Oftentimes it's actually that I'm just playing 34 00:02:45,196 --> 00:02:47,916 Speaker 1: my guitar for a while, finding some kind of chord 35 00:02:47,956 --> 00:02:51,316 Speaker 1: progression that I really that I feel in my body 36 00:02:51,396 --> 00:02:55,116 Speaker 1: that I enjoy that, like I want to keep playing, 37 00:02:55,116 --> 00:02:58,396 Speaker 1: and then the melody and then all the words sort 38 00:02:58,436 --> 00:03:03,676 Speaker 1: of form like shapes and vowels and sounds start to 39 00:03:03,756 --> 00:03:06,996 Speaker 1: just kind of come out in all these mumbles, and 40 00:03:07,036 --> 00:03:10,156 Speaker 1: then it starts to congeal and like be come more 41 00:03:10,196 --> 00:03:12,316 Speaker 1: of a shape and more of a shape until it 42 00:03:12,436 --> 00:03:15,116 Speaker 1: just forms itself. And it's so interesting because those of 43 00:03:15,156 --> 00:03:18,596 Speaker 1: us were not musical or you know, music making seems 44 00:03:18,676 --> 00:03:22,956 Speaker 1: totally mysterious, and that's I think part of the beauty 45 00:03:22,996 --> 00:03:25,716 Speaker 1: of being able to listen to music is like it's 46 00:03:25,716 --> 00:03:29,236 Speaker 1: a thing that it is. I do not know how 47 00:03:29,276 --> 00:03:32,636 Speaker 1: it's made. It does feel like magic. Honestly to me too. 48 00:03:33,636 --> 00:03:36,156 Speaker 1: I think that's also true for like the music makers 49 00:03:36,156 --> 00:03:38,836 Speaker 1: like it. To me, it still feels very mysterious. Like 50 00:03:38,916 --> 00:03:40,796 Speaker 1: I it does kind of feel like magic, and I 51 00:03:40,836 --> 00:03:43,956 Speaker 1: don't fully understand where it comes from. I don't want 52 00:03:43,956 --> 00:03:46,716 Speaker 1: to say that you're like possessed, but there's something, there's 53 00:03:46,716 --> 00:03:49,996 Speaker 1: a spirit or there's some way that you're moved and 54 00:03:50,076 --> 00:03:53,316 Speaker 1: that you've you've almost sort of let go of the 55 00:03:53,556 --> 00:03:56,596 Speaker 1: conscious mind and you like you're letting it take over 56 00:03:56,876 --> 00:04:01,796 Speaker 1: you in some way. Yeah. I mean, if I were 57 00:04:01,876 --> 00:04:05,436 Speaker 1: to try and explain like how I write a song, 58 00:04:06,836 --> 00:04:09,716 Speaker 1: I wouldn't really be able to explain the song part. 59 00:04:10,316 --> 00:04:13,276 Speaker 1: I would only be able to explain the putting myself 60 00:04:13,356 --> 00:04:18,276 Speaker 1: in a headspace part, which is like kind of emptying 61 00:04:18,956 --> 00:04:23,036 Speaker 1: my thoughts and like so that I'm not actually constructing 62 00:04:23,116 --> 00:04:26,756 Speaker 1: something with my mind, but I'm actually just getting into 63 00:04:26,796 --> 00:04:32,476 Speaker 1: a full on feeling space of like just the vibration 64 00:04:33,116 --> 00:04:38,236 Speaker 1: of the guitar resonating against my body, and the way 65 00:04:38,236 --> 00:04:41,516 Speaker 1: that my voice sounds like coming back, bouncing off the wall, 66 00:04:41,596 --> 00:04:45,036 Speaker 1: back into my ears. It is like something coming through, 67 00:04:45,956 --> 00:04:49,476 Speaker 1: which is what I like. I like. I'm more interested 68 00:04:49,516 --> 00:04:51,636 Speaker 1: in what I can't come up with on my own. 69 00:04:52,676 --> 00:04:55,236 Speaker 1: I'm more interested in writing things that I don't fully 70 00:04:55,276 --> 00:04:59,916 Speaker 1: understand yet, that I'm not piecing together through logic, but 71 00:04:59,996 --> 00:05:05,636 Speaker 1: that I'm actually discovering myself. It feels very visceral when 72 00:05:05,676 --> 00:05:08,116 Speaker 1: you're talking, like the vibrations of the guitar and the 73 00:05:08,156 --> 00:05:10,516 Speaker 1: way that your voice is bouncing off the walls and 74 00:05:10,556 --> 00:05:14,516 Speaker 1: all of that. It like it's a sensory experience, almost 75 00:05:14,636 --> 00:05:22,636 Speaker 1: more so than a intellectual experience. Yeah, yes, definitely, yeah 76 00:05:22,636 --> 00:05:25,676 Speaker 1: it is. Did you have a sense with that particular 77 00:05:25,796 --> 00:05:27,996 Speaker 1: song what you wanted it to sound like or was 78 00:05:28,036 --> 00:05:29,956 Speaker 1: it like it's going to come out how it comes out. 79 00:05:30,396 --> 00:05:34,476 Speaker 1: I didn't have any ideas in my head at all, like, 80 00:05:34,556 --> 00:05:36,796 Speaker 1: and I think that's why stuff was. I think that's 81 00:05:36,796 --> 00:05:38,876 Speaker 1: why it was really flowing and why I was really 82 00:05:38,916 --> 00:05:41,076 Speaker 1: writing a lot at that time, because it was out 83 00:05:41,076 --> 00:05:46,436 Speaker 1: of necessity. I was very heartsick, I felt, so it 84 00:05:46,516 --> 00:05:50,596 Speaker 1: was after six years of constant, NonStop touring, going through 85 00:05:51,196 --> 00:05:54,436 Speaker 1: different iterations of like you know, being married and then 86 00:05:54,476 --> 00:05:56,956 Speaker 1: divorcing my partner in the band who I am in 87 00:05:56,956 --> 00:06:00,876 Speaker 1: a band with, then you know, just going through all 88 00:06:00,916 --> 00:06:03,996 Speaker 1: this kind of stuff well, being on tour nine months 89 00:06:04,036 --> 00:06:08,076 Speaker 1: out of the year, and when it all stopped, like 90 00:06:08,116 --> 00:06:10,916 Speaker 1: I kind of was having like a breakdown and it 91 00:06:10,956 --> 00:06:15,116 Speaker 1: was really hard to even eat food, and I was 92 00:06:15,356 --> 00:06:21,716 Speaker 1: feeling so bad, and the songs were just my only 93 00:06:23,236 --> 00:06:26,116 Speaker 1: like I just I wasn't even thinking about ever sharing 94 00:06:26,156 --> 00:06:28,876 Speaker 1: them with anybody or showing them to anybody. I wasn't 95 00:06:28,916 --> 00:06:31,316 Speaker 1: thinking about it even as a piece of art. I 96 00:06:31,356 --> 00:06:36,596 Speaker 1: wasn't thinking about presenting anything. I was just simply like 97 00:06:37,636 --> 00:06:42,596 Speaker 1: feeling like I needed to somehow like reach into a 98 00:06:42,716 --> 00:06:46,396 Speaker 1: deeper part of what was going on inside of me. 99 00:06:46,956 --> 00:06:52,476 Speaker 1: I always feel weird about talking to artists because being 100 00:06:52,556 --> 00:06:57,116 Speaker 1: asked to articulate your process and the mental space that 101 00:06:57,116 --> 00:07:00,636 Speaker 1: you're in it must be one tedious and two very 102 00:07:00,676 --> 00:07:05,716 Speaker 1: difficult because because you might not know it yourself, or 103 00:07:05,956 --> 00:07:08,236 Speaker 1: it's like, well, what's the point of articulating it when 104 00:07:08,356 --> 00:07:12,196 Speaker 1: like it's very personal to you and I appreciate you, 105 00:07:12,196 --> 00:07:16,596 Speaker 1: you know, sort of going in that direction and trying 106 00:07:16,636 --> 00:07:21,276 Speaker 1: to explain to you know, where you were at that time. 107 00:07:21,556 --> 00:07:23,836 Speaker 1: You know it felt so I mean, the whole album 108 00:07:23,916 --> 00:07:26,636 Speaker 1: is gorgeous and I couldn't stop listening to it for 109 00:07:26,676 --> 00:07:29,356 Speaker 1: the longest time, and they're trying to figure out, like 110 00:07:30,156 --> 00:07:36,436 Speaker 1: what it was, and I think it's the spareness of it, 111 00:07:36,676 --> 00:07:41,156 Speaker 1: like the spareness of your voice, the spareness of the guitar. 112 00:07:41,996 --> 00:07:44,156 Speaker 1: And I guess, like I was thinking, like did the 113 00:07:44,236 --> 00:07:47,836 Speaker 1: setting of the cabin in the woods, And you know, 114 00:07:47,876 --> 00:07:49,556 Speaker 1: I used to live in Vermont for a long time, 115 00:07:49,596 --> 00:07:53,756 Speaker 1: and so I know that feeling of like isolation in 116 00:07:53,796 --> 00:07:57,796 Speaker 1: New England. But was that a part of it? Was there? 117 00:07:58,036 --> 00:08:02,196 Speaker 1: Was there? Were you influenced by your environment? Definitely? I 118 00:08:02,276 --> 00:08:05,396 Speaker 1: mean just being in the quiet of nature. And I 119 00:08:05,436 --> 00:08:08,316 Speaker 1: saw the winter going to the spring, I saw the 120 00:08:08,436 --> 00:08:12,156 Speaker 1: snow melt and all the leaves come out, and I 121 00:08:12,196 --> 00:08:15,676 Speaker 1: started just like paying attention, so much attention to the 122 00:08:15,756 --> 00:08:20,236 Speaker 1: details of that slow process of a change of season, 123 00:08:20,316 --> 00:08:24,036 Speaker 1: which I had not witnessed since the beginning of Big 124 00:08:24,036 --> 00:08:27,956 Speaker 1: Thief starting because I've just been touring. It brought a 125 00:08:27,956 --> 00:08:33,676 Speaker 1: lot of focus and quiet, like there was so much 126 00:08:33,756 --> 00:08:37,876 Speaker 1: quiet and I think a lot can emerge from a 127 00:08:37,996 --> 00:08:42,036 Speaker 1: more silent space. But also I think there's like some 128 00:08:42,116 --> 00:08:47,196 Speaker 1: hidden magic on the record because I discovered this paintbrush 129 00:08:47,316 --> 00:08:53,276 Speaker 1: tool on Dragon Eyes. Yes, but also I don't um 130 00:08:54,236 --> 00:08:56,516 Speaker 1: it's on like so many of the songs. It's actually 131 00:08:56,556 --> 00:09:00,996 Speaker 1: like on most of them, Like yeah, it's on anything 132 00:09:01,596 --> 00:09:06,716 Speaker 1: I have. It's such a cool sound, and it like 133 00:09:08,236 --> 00:09:11,236 Speaker 1: it's like this little he that I discovered that creates 134 00:09:11,276 --> 00:09:14,796 Speaker 1: this drone like that is this really soft sort of 135 00:09:15,156 --> 00:09:19,156 Speaker 1: averything that has a lot of different harmonics, and it's 136 00:09:19,236 --> 00:09:22,356 Speaker 1: underneath so there's almost this pulse, Like there's a pulse 137 00:09:22,436 --> 00:09:25,916 Speaker 1: throughout the record that it's not on every single song, 138 00:09:25,996 --> 00:09:28,796 Speaker 1: but it's not a lot of them, and it helps 139 00:09:28,876 --> 00:09:31,476 Speaker 1: kind of create this world. Like I felt like there 140 00:09:31,556 --> 00:09:35,196 Speaker 1: was this under like this really quiet, subtle sort of 141 00:09:35,316 --> 00:09:40,316 Speaker 1: orchestra of like nature sounds and like the brush and 142 00:09:40,396 --> 00:09:44,676 Speaker 1: like leaves and like birds and rain and stuff like 143 00:09:44,676 --> 00:09:47,716 Speaker 1: that that you may not hear it and go, oh, 144 00:09:47,756 --> 00:09:50,076 Speaker 1: there's some rain or there's you know, but it's like 145 00:09:50,196 --> 00:09:53,756 Speaker 1: in there all kind of and we were recording to tape, 146 00:09:54,276 --> 00:09:57,196 Speaker 1: so it's like all just like analog. There wasn't like 147 00:09:57,236 --> 00:10:01,676 Speaker 1: a computer setup or you know, it's like I feel 148 00:10:01,716 --> 00:10:04,636 Speaker 1: like there's like a warmth and a like a little 149 00:10:04,676 --> 00:10:09,116 Speaker 1: bit of a magical kind of like there's just harmonics 150 00:10:09,196 --> 00:10:12,316 Speaker 1: stuff that I feel like you're in there that kind 151 00:10:12,316 --> 00:10:15,276 Speaker 1: of like it would be so different if you just 152 00:10:15,396 --> 00:10:18,916 Speaker 1: heard me play the song anything just with one guitar 153 00:10:19,036 --> 00:10:23,356 Speaker 1: and singing. See, I layered like three guitars. I put 154 00:10:23,396 --> 00:10:26,476 Speaker 1: like brush on it, and I did like a counter 155 00:10:26,996 --> 00:10:31,316 Speaker 1: guitar melody and then I like recorded like yeah, little 156 00:10:31,316 --> 00:10:38,156 Speaker 1: subtle harmony. Yeah, the brushes is is a real nifty trick. 157 00:10:38,516 --> 00:10:41,156 Speaker 1: What made you say I'm going to pick up a 158 00:10:41,196 --> 00:10:45,396 Speaker 1: paint brush and strum the guitar with it. I had 159 00:10:45,396 --> 00:10:51,116 Speaker 1: a paint brush and guitar um, and I just I 160 00:10:51,156 --> 00:10:53,956 Speaker 1: mean I could have like a you know, a soda 161 00:10:53,996 --> 00:10:57,036 Speaker 1: can or you know, like a rock from outside, And 162 00:10:57,276 --> 00:10:59,196 Speaker 1: I don't know that I would necessarily think to like 163 00:10:59,356 --> 00:11:02,596 Speaker 1: jam it into my instrument, But I know, I don't know. Yeah, true, 164 00:11:03,036 --> 00:11:08,476 Speaker 1: I understand. I Yeah, I think it was just craving 165 00:11:08,516 --> 00:11:12,676 Speaker 1: the pulse honestly, and like the softness. Like right in 166 00:11:12,716 --> 00:11:14,796 Speaker 1: my room, I have the paint brush that that I 167 00:11:14,916 --> 00:11:19,036 Speaker 1: used and the guitar. I can show you if you want. Yeah, yeah, please, 168 00:11:19,156 --> 00:11:28,596 Speaker 1: I'd love to see it. Yeah, this is this is 169 00:11:28,636 --> 00:11:31,236 Speaker 1: actually the guitar. This is the only guitar I have. 170 00:11:31,276 --> 00:11:34,116 Speaker 1: I've had it since I was fourteen. Amazing. The whole 171 00:11:34,156 --> 00:11:36,956 Speaker 1: record is just with this guitar, that whole songs. But 172 00:11:37,676 --> 00:11:42,556 Speaker 1: it's too so this is the paint brush, and it's 173 00:11:42,556 --> 00:11:45,116 Speaker 1: a used paint brush. It's not new. You didn't just 174 00:11:45,156 --> 00:11:47,876 Speaker 1: go down to home depot and pick it up. No, yeah, exactly. 175 00:11:47,916 --> 00:11:50,356 Speaker 1: But you may be able to tell how quiet this is. 176 00:12:10,716 --> 00:12:15,636 Speaker 1: It's amazing. It's gorgeous. Yeah, it creates this like you know, 177 00:12:15,716 --> 00:12:19,756 Speaker 1: this little it's it's like tinny or it's it's metalic. 178 00:12:19,796 --> 00:12:22,436 Speaker 1: I mean, it has that metallic kind of but it's 179 00:12:22,756 --> 00:12:25,236 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm again, this is not I can't describe me. 180 00:12:25,276 --> 00:12:30,716 Speaker 1: It's like it's truly my worst quality. Uh but um yeah, 181 00:12:30,796 --> 00:12:33,956 Speaker 1: that's gorgeous. Also, there's just something about the acoustic guitar 182 00:12:34,116 --> 00:12:38,876 Speaker 1: that I've always just resonated with so much since I 183 00:12:38,916 --> 00:12:41,476 Speaker 1: was little, and I still feel the same amount. It 184 00:12:41,516 --> 00:12:43,796 Speaker 1: holds me, like it comforts me so much, and it's 185 00:12:44,836 --> 00:12:48,996 Speaker 1: it's just it's just the certain tambre and the resonance 186 00:12:49,036 --> 00:12:52,356 Speaker 1: and everything about it I I love exploring it because 187 00:12:52,356 --> 00:12:54,636 Speaker 1: it's like it's like a jungle gym or something. It 188 00:12:54,756 --> 00:12:58,356 Speaker 1: is like a playground with It's like a like a 189 00:12:58,476 --> 00:13:04,036 Speaker 1: world where you can just like try all this stuff. 190 00:13:05,676 --> 00:13:09,356 Speaker 1: When you were writing, are you are you thinking thinking 191 00:13:09,436 --> 00:13:13,756 Speaker 1: about the listeners, like are you are there feelings that 192 00:13:13,796 --> 00:13:17,836 Speaker 1: you're trying to evoke or are you writing for yourself 193 00:13:18,356 --> 00:13:21,836 Speaker 1: and for your needs and whatever comes out comes out. 194 00:13:23,196 --> 00:13:33,716 Speaker 1: I'm writing for the listener in myself, that's fine. Well, 195 00:13:35,876 --> 00:13:40,596 Speaker 1: sometimes it takes me a while to even understand what 196 00:13:40,636 --> 00:13:44,116 Speaker 1: a song means. After all the stuff comes comes out, 197 00:13:44,196 --> 00:13:47,236 Speaker 1: it's not like I even fully even understand or I'm 198 00:13:47,276 --> 00:13:51,036 Speaker 1: able to extract all the meaning right then sometimes over 199 00:13:51,196 --> 00:13:56,716 Speaker 1: time I start to understand and piece it together. And 200 00:13:57,436 --> 00:14:01,116 Speaker 1: first and foremost, it does have to excite me. It 201 00:14:01,196 --> 00:14:05,236 Speaker 1: does have to feel like pull something out of me 202 00:14:05,396 --> 00:14:09,556 Speaker 1: or draw something out of me. It has to feel 203 00:14:10,076 --> 00:14:15,716 Speaker 1: like it makes me think and like question, and it 204 00:14:15,796 --> 00:14:18,956 Speaker 1: also just mostly has to feel resonant deeply, like it 205 00:14:19,036 --> 00:14:22,596 Speaker 1: just has to feel cathartic in some way, like like 206 00:14:22,636 --> 00:14:26,196 Speaker 1: I can feel it in my guts and if because 207 00:14:26,196 --> 00:14:28,516 Speaker 1: I can't fake it for like for sure, I could 208 00:14:28,516 --> 00:14:32,276 Speaker 1: never just write something with another person in mind and 209 00:14:32,436 --> 00:14:35,556 Speaker 1: hope that it resonates for them, even though I know 210 00:14:35,636 --> 00:14:38,716 Speaker 1: it's not resonant for me. I don't think I could 211 00:14:38,756 --> 00:14:40,996 Speaker 1: do that bring myself to sing a song like that 212 00:14:41,156 --> 00:14:44,636 Speaker 1: or so first and foremost it does have to speak 213 00:14:44,716 --> 00:14:48,396 Speaker 1: to the part of me that is listening. Then I 214 00:14:48,436 --> 00:14:51,836 Speaker 1: can only hope that it is a force for good 215 00:14:51,956 --> 00:14:55,956 Speaker 1: or something that can bring something to somebody else. And 216 00:14:56,116 --> 00:15:01,036 Speaker 1: if it doesn't, then you know it doesn't. And I'm 217 00:15:01,036 --> 00:15:05,996 Speaker 1: not trying to orchestrate like a career, like I'm so 218 00:15:06,076 --> 00:15:09,596 Speaker 1: grateful to be able to have one, but I but 219 00:15:09,676 --> 00:15:14,356 Speaker 1: I don't want to just be you know, talking just 220 00:15:14,436 --> 00:15:19,436 Speaker 1: to talk and right making music just to make music? 221 00:15:19,516 --> 00:15:26,396 Speaker 1: And um, does that make sense? Yeah? Yeah, no, it 222 00:15:26,476 --> 00:15:29,036 Speaker 1: absolutely does. And I think that's probably why your work 223 00:15:29,276 --> 00:15:32,556 Speaker 1: resonates with so many people. I view it like there's 224 00:15:32,556 --> 00:15:36,636 Speaker 1: a lot of there's a real like universality in a 225 00:15:36,636 --> 00:15:40,596 Speaker 1: lot of the lyrics, like you're telling a very specific 226 00:15:41,516 --> 00:15:45,836 Speaker 1: story or event, but it has broader resonance. But I'm 227 00:15:45,836 --> 00:15:50,156 Speaker 1: curious for you, with some distance from the writing, what 228 00:15:50,236 --> 00:15:57,396 Speaker 1: does it mean for you now? Hm that song specifically? Anything? Yeah? Um, 229 00:15:59,996 --> 00:16:08,796 Speaker 1: I think it it's a yearning for uncomplicated connection where 230 00:16:08,796 --> 00:16:12,916 Speaker 1: you're not being asked to explain yourself, learning for like 231 00:16:12,956 --> 00:16:18,356 Speaker 1: a closeness and like a true embrace, um, like to 232 00:16:18,436 --> 00:16:22,316 Speaker 1: bridge the gap of understanding between that that can get 233 00:16:22,356 --> 00:16:27,036 Speaker 1: so muddied and complicated by words like things so much 234 00:16:27,076 --> 00:16:31,516 Speaker 1: can get lost in translation, and it's just like the 235 00:16:31,676 --> 00:16:36,596 Speaker 1: desire for like the most simple form of being embraced 236 00:16:36,676 --> 00:16:42,036 Speaker 1: in a way of when when all of it is 237 00:16:43,796 --> 00:16:47,476 Speaker 1: it can just feel so tiresome. Yeah, I guess that's 238 00:16:48,436 --> 00:16:53,516 Speaker 1: the essence hearing you say that, I'm I like want 239 00:16:53,556 --> 00:16:56,916 Speaker 1: to jump through the computer and just be like yes, 240 00:16:57,316 --> 00:17:03,316 Speaker 1: like yes, but we might have slightly different like that 241 00:17:03,556 --> 00:17:07,436 Speaker 1: meaning the thing that you were saying is like, uh, 242 00:17:07,676 --> 00:17:11,076 Speaker 1: you know, sort of not want, not needing to explain yourself, 243 00:17:11,156 --> 00:17:13,996 Speaker 1: to sort of have an uncomplicated connection with people and 244 00:17:14,156 --> 00:17:19,596 Speaker 1: sort of letting go of words. Because part of my 245 00:17:20,276 --> 00:17:25,636 Speaker 1: coming to grips with my diagnosis is that, like I 246 00:17:25,756 --> 00:17:29,036 Speaker 1: have had to over forty three years contort myself into 247 00:17:29,116 --> 00:17:34,476 Speaker 1: a million different shapes to fit what I think is 248 00:17:35,116 --> 00:17:39,036 Speaker 1: what people think is appropriate. You know, there's a particular 249 00:17:39,116 --> 00:17:42,396 Speaker 1: thing and in autism that a lot of autistic people do, 250 00:17:42,436 --> 00:17:48,116 Speaker 1: which is masking or camouflaging where you're shape shifting into 251 00:17:48,156 --> 00:17:51,436 Speaker 1: a space because you know your behavior doesn't actually fit that, 252 00:17:51,516 --> 00:17:55,276 Speaker 1: but you really have to work hard to fit in 253 00:17:55,476 --> 00:17:58,476 Speaker 1: or be isolated. And one thing that I've been going 254 00:17:58,476 --> 00:18:02,076 Speaker 1: through in my sort of journey this year is figuring 255 00:18:02,116 --> 00:18:08,916 Speaker 1: out how I can just be accepted for myself or 256 00:18:08,956 --> 00:18:12,716 Speaker 1: be given a wide berth, or be allowed to be 257 00:18:13,076 --> 00:18:18,356 Speaker 1: who I am and need to be without without muddying 258 00:18:18,556 --> 00:18:24,836 Speaker 1: that with you know, acting or working really hard to kind. 259 00:18:24,956 --> 00:18:28,436 Speaker 1: I mean, the work is exhausting. The mental gymnastics that 260 00:18:28,716 --> 00:18:32,436 Speaker 1: you have to do to appear typical are really exhausting, 261 00:18:32,836 --> 00:18:36,516 Speaker 1: and so hearing you say that, I think my guide, 262 00:18:36,596 --> 00:18:40,756 Speaker 1: like this song actually resonates more than I thought that 263 00:18:40,836 --> 00:18:43,796 Speaker 1: it did because I knew it hit me on sort 264 00:18:43,836 --> 00:18:46,796 Speaker 1: of a but like a very just like gut level. 265 00:18:47,236 --> 00:18:49,876 Speaker 1: I mean, look, I'm not trying to be like weird, 266 00:18:49,956 --> 00:18:51,556 Speaker 1: but every time I hear that song and I'm in 267 00:18:51,596 --> 00:18:54,996 Speaker 1: my car, I cry. It's like an automatic response. I 268 00:18:55,036 --> 00:18:57,876 Speaker 1: don't know what it's about, but it's like, like I 269 00:18:57,916 --> 00:18:59,916 Speaker 1: was just listening to it yesterday. I've probably heard it 270 00:18:59,956 --> 00:19:03,156 Speaker 1: fifty times, you know, in the last like in the 271 00:19:03,236 --> 00:19:07,236 Speaker 1: last month, and I'm still like, like, I'm a dog's 272 00:19:07,236 --> 00:19:10,396 Speaker 1: in the car, just picked her up, you know, I'm crying. 273 00:19:10,436 --> 00:19:15,876 Speaker 1: She's like, what's going on? You know? But may I 274 00:19:15,916 --> 00:19:20,316 Speaker 1: tell you the impetus for our chat, the story behind 275 00:19:20,756 --> 00:19:24,996 Speaker 1: our behind this for me? Yes, of course, yeah, okay. 276 00:19:25,076 --> 00:19:29,116 Speaker 1: So I was in Marfa, Texas. A friend of mine 277 00:19:29,116 --> 00:19:33,636 Speaker 1: who lives out there, said, um, why don't you, you know, 278 00:19:33,756 --> 00:19:36,956 Speaker 1: take the car and go out the ranch road through 279 00:19:37,076 --> 00:19:40,036 Speaker 1: Pinto Canyon, which is just like the straight shot right 280 00:19:40,076 --> 00:19:44,636 Speaker 1: to Mexico, right, and it's gorgeous. The sun's going down. 281 00:19:45,316 --> 00:19:49,076 Speaker 1: The road is totally empty, it's a two lane road. 282 00:19:49,196 --> 00:19:52,596 Speaker 1: They're just ranches as far as you can see. And 283 00:19:52,676 --> 00:19:56,996 Speaker 1: the road is just it doesn't the terrain doesn't really shift, 284 00:19:57,116 --> 00:20:01,716 Speaker 1: just rolling, rolling, rolling, rolling. The sun's going down. And 285 00:20:01,796 --> 00:20:06,396 Speaker 1: I was listening to your album and and Anything came 286 00:20:06,476 --> 00:20:09,796 Speaker 1: on and it just was like a gut pun and 287 00:20:10,236 --> 00:20:14,916 Speaker 1: I just started, like not to be melodramatic, but weeping. 288 00:20:15,876 --> 00:20:18,756 Speaker 1: And I didn't know what was going on. And I 289 00:20:18,796 --> 00:20:22,396 Speaker 1: had to pull the car over and just stop because well, 290 00:20:22,396 --> 00:20:25,796 Speaker 1: one I couldn't see to drive, it was unsafe, but two, 291 00:20:27,716 --> 00:20:35,156 Speaker 1: I was just overcome. I was completely overcome and you know. 292 00:20:35,316 --> 00:20:38,996 Speaker 1: I think it was the combination of the way that 293 00:20:39,036 --> 00:20:44,156 Speaker 1: the song, the steadiness of the song that there's not 294 00:20:44,276 --> 00:20:48,316 Speaker 1: doesn't build up to some like you know, big crashing 295 00:20:48,396 --> 00:20:51,996 Speaker 1: bridge or you know, it's just like it's low drama, 296 00:20:52,116 --> 00:20:56,556 Speaker 1: and it mirrored the landscape in this way. But I 297 00:20:56,636 --> 00:21:00,956 Speaker 1: was overcome with this feeling of like like this person 298 00:21:01,156 --> 00:21:05,236 Speaker 1: who's singing this song, they had so much access to 299 00:21:05,276 --> 00:21:09,716 Speaker 1: their emotions. They weren't held hostage seemingly by the emotions. 300 00:21:09,756 --> 00:21:12,716 Speaker 1: They could just sort of freely emote and be vulnerable 301 00:21:12,756 --> 00:21:16,316 Speaker 1: and let it out and it was okay. And and 302 00:21:16,396 --> 00:21:20,436 Speaker 1: I think it there was all this stored up emotion 303 00:21:20,836 --> 00:21:23,716 Speaker 1: of this diagnosis for me, but also having it having 304 00:21:23,716 --> 00:21:26,636 Speaker 1: it happened during a pandemic, when you're not connected to people, 305 00:21:27,156 --> 00:21:30,276 Speaker 1: when your support systems are kind of collapsed in a 306 00:21:30,316 --> 00:21:35,076 Speaker 1: particular way. And I pause because I knew I was 307 00:21:35,156 --> 00:21:38,636 Speaker 1: doing this, and I just recorded myself like my sort 308 00:21:38,636 --> 00:21:41,596 Speaker 1: of whatever my thoughts were at that time. And I mean, 309 00:21:41,636 --> 00:21:45,716 Speaker 1: the thing I kept keep coming back to was like, 310 00:21:45,716 --> 00:21:50,956 Speaker 1: like that kind of emotion is so hard for me 311 00:21:51,236 --> 00:21:56,836 Speaker 1: to find or to access or to touch. It feels dangerous. 312 00:21:57,156 --> 00:22:03,196 Speaker 1: It feels like it's just it's just dangerous and also 313 00:22:03,636 --> 00:22:09,196 Speaker 1: kind of wild and scary. And so I think, I know, 314 00:22:09,316 --> 00:22:12,756 Speaker 1: I wanted to chat for our show because it felt 315 00:22:12,796 --> 00:22:16,156 Speaker 1: like there was a way in which you figured it out, 316 00:22:16,596 --> 00:22:21,116 Speaker 1: like you figured out how to access an appropriate amount 317 00:22:21,116 --> 00:22:25,876 Speaker 1: of emotion and vulnerability. And I know that sounds maybe weird, 318 00:22:26,396 --> 00:22:32,156 Speaker 1: but like that was that really meant something to me 319 00:22:32,236 --> 00:22:37,196 Speaker 1: in that moment, and I felt like something lifted or 320 00:22:37,196 --> 00:22:41,636 Speaker 1: something changed or it was really pivotal for me. And 321 00:22:42,036 --> 00:22:44,756 Speaker 1: I might not be articulating it in a way that 322 00:22:45,516 --> 00:22:49,596 Speaker 1: sortfully relays the gravity of it for me, but it 323 00:22:49,716 --> 00:22:54,516 Speaker 1: was very moving and yeah, and so that's I think 324 00:22:54,596 --> 00:23:00,596 Speaker 1: my wonder is that I'm just so curious about how 325 00:23:00,636 --> 00:23:05,636 Speaker 1: you get there. Wow, thank you for sharing that story. 326 00:23:06,676 --> 00:23:10,716 Speaker 1: It's me, Thank you for listening to it is vulnerable 327 00:23:11,636 --> 00:23:15,756 Speaker 1: that you know, sharing that feels like gets vulnerable to 328 00:23:15,836 --> 00:23:20,796 Speaker 1: just have a little window into your experience with the music. 329 00:23:20,836 --> 00:23:24,996 Speaker 1: And it's pretty cool to get to hear because I 330 00:23:25,036 --> 00:23:29,076 Speaker 1: don't often hear how about once I, once I finish 331 00:23:29,236 --> 00:23:32,876 Speaker 1: my part, goes out into the world and I don't 332 00:23:33,796 --> 00:23:38,916 Speaker 1: really know, you know, what it's like for different people, 333 00:23:38,996 --> 00:23:45,596 Speaker 1: And so interesting that it tapped into that for you 334 00:23:45,836 --> 00:23:50,436 Speaker 1: or that. But but I I know it's well, I 335 00:23:50,436 --> 00:23:53,636 Speaker 1: don't look at it as melodramatic at all, like to 336 00:23:54,076 --> 00:23:58,796 Speaker 1: feel that amount of emotion or to weep. I think 337 00:23:58,876 --> 00:24:07,556 Speaker 1: that sadness emotion, you know, feeling things like deeply is 338 00:24:07,676 --> 00:24:11,556 Speaker 1: not it's not really nurtured, Like we're not really given 339 00:24:11,716 --> 00:24:16,116 Speaker 1: the tools from an early age to even most people, 340 00:24:16,156 --> 00:24:21,156 Speaker 1: I mean without without autism, without a diagnosis like that, 341 00:24:21,236 --> 00:24:27,196 Speaker 1: it's already there's already so much stifling that happens, and 342 00:24:27,236 --> 00:24:29,196 Speaker 1: then I can't I don't know what it feels like 343 00:24:30,356 --> 00:24:32,676 Speaker 1: with that on top of it, which seems like something 344 00:24:32,716 --> 00:24:36,516 Speaker 1: that is not understood or given space in itself. Like 345 00:24:37,516 --> 00:24:44,316 Speaker 1: I just think that there's so much around feeling your 346 00:24:44,396 --> 00:24:49,076 Speaker 1: raw feelings and emotions that is just like oppressed. And 347 00:24:50,196 --> 00:24:52,836 Speaker 1: but I feel like I remember like part of your 348 00:24:52,916 --> 00:24:55,636 Speaker 1: question that I didn't really like answer. I feel was 349 00:24:55,716 --> 00:24:59,236 Speaker 1: like how I got there, How I got to that 350 00:24:59,356 --> 00:25:04,956 Speaker 1: vulnerable place, And honestly, I didn't feel like I had 351 00:25:05,036 --> 00:25:08,996 Speaker 1: the balance all worked out when I was making the 352 00:25:09,196 --> 00:25:13,236 Speaker 1: songs are emoting. It didn't feel like I found figured 353 00:25:13,276 --> 00:25:16,196 Speaker 1: out a key to like the right amount of this 354 00:25:16,396 --> 00:25:18,716 Speaker 1: or that or that I could even control how much 355 00:25:19,236 --> 00:25:23,516 Speaker 1: was happening, but I could barely get down food. I 356 00:25:23,676 --> 00:25:27,676 Speaker 1: was like crawling around on the dirt, like crying into 357 00:25:27,756 --> 00:25:32,476 Speaker 1: the woods, like crying into the I was having panic attacks. 358 00:25:32,876 --> 00:25:36,876 Speaker 1: My body was like I was barely able to like 359 00:25:36,996 --> 00:25:43,076 Speaker 1: finish a potato. Like I honestly like did not feel 360 00:25:43,316 --> 00:25:46,796 Speaker 1: the sensation that I was gonna like get through it. 361 00:25:47,076 --> 00:25:49,116 Speaker 1: You know. I felt like it was out of control. 362 00:25:49,236 --> 00:25:51,876 Speaker 1: Like I was like, this is is this ever gonna end? 363 00:25:51,916 --> 00:25:55,156 Speaker 1: I felt like I was in like a like it 364 00:25:55,196 --> 00:25:58,396 Speaker 1: was after six years of pushing myself to the max touring, 365 00:25:58,716 --> 00:26:01,996 Speaker 1: I hadn't processed like the grief of my breakup, and 366 00:26:02,156 --> 00:26:05,516 Speaker 1: I just even just the amount of time of like 367 00:26:05,596 --> 00:26:10,916 Speaker 1: I'm a pretty sensitive person and I was doing something 368 00:26:10,956 --> 00:26:13,836 Speaker 1: completely outside of my nature, which was like moving to 369 00:26:13,876 --> 00:26:16,436 Speaker 1: a new space every night and putting being in front, 370 00:26:16,476 --> 00:26:19,156 Speaker 1: holding space for like a lot of people in a room, 371 00:26:19,916 --> 00:26:23,356 Speaker 1: being looked at and being listened to. Already, I struggle 372 00:26:23,396 --> 00:26:28,716 Speaker 1: with self deprecation and because of you know, like parts 373 00:26:28,716 --> 00:26:32,436 Speaker 1: of my childhood that were abusive, and like it was 374 00:26:32,476 --> 00:26:35,636 Speaker 1: all amplified, but it was all squelched because I just 375 00:26:35,796 --> 00:26:39,676 Speaker 1: didn't have any room to really process. I think what 376 00:26:39,716 --> 00:26:42,796 Speaker 1: it is is just like how I got there was 377 00:26:42,836 --> 00:26:48,196 Speaker 1: by going there, like just like allowing myself to feel 378 00:26:48,476 --> 00:26:52,996 Speaker 1: the scariness of it. It's important to feel this, and 379 00:26:53,036 --> 00:26:55,316 Speaker 1: it's important to let its surface and come up and 380 00:26:55,396 --> 00:26:59,036 Speaker 1: move through. I guess just being able to be like 381 00:26:59,076 --> 00:27:01,116 Speaker 1: you know what, I'm going to be there for myself 382 00:27:02,036 --> 00:27:06,796 Speaker 1: no matter what. And like this sadness is not negative. 383 00:27:06,876 --> 00:27:10,596 Speaker 1: This sadness is not bad. The emotion is not bad, 384 00:27:10,876 --> 00:27:14,476 Speaker 1: Like all that I am is not bad. It can 385 00:27:14,516 --> 00:27:18,076 Speaker 1: all be here and like honestly just a lot of 386 00:27:18,076 --> 00:27:25,076 Speaker 1: like self soothing and trying to like believe in good, 387 00:27:25,356 --> 00:27:28,516 Speaker 1: like believing in like love, believing that love is a 388 00:27:28,556 --> 00:27:31,276 Speaker 1: real force. If you could imagine like the best friend 389 00:27:31,316 --> 00:27:34,476 Speaker 1: you could ever imagine, or like the best parent that 390 00:27:34,516 --> 00:27:38,476 Speaker 1: you could ever imagine, and your like little child self 391 00:27:38,756 --> 00:27:42,756 Speaker 1: was like feeling the whole spectrum of everything they feel. 392 00:27:43,996 --> 00:27:46,516 Speaker 1: How would that parent that you imagine or like that 393 00:27:46,596 --> 00:27:51,476 Speaker 1: friend meet that kid. I imagine when I'm struggling with 394 00:27:51,516 --> 00:27:56,676 Speaker 1: like self deprecation because I've had like dysmorphia like in 395 00:27:56,756 --> 00:28:00,316 Speaker 1: my life, like about around my face and different things. 396 00:28:01,156 --> 00:28:04,756 Speaker 1: But I just imagine that person just being like come here, 397 00:28:04,916 --> 00:28:09,356 Speaker 1: like I love you so much you're so special, You're light, 398 00:28:09,516 --> 00:28:13,716 Speaker 1: like I'm with you, I'm not going anywhere, and you 399 00:28:13,756 --> 00:28:15,836 Speaker 1: can feel all you feel and you can be all 400 00:28:15,876 --> 00:28:19,116 Speaker 1: you are and you're you know, and it's powerful, like 401 00:28:19,196 --> 00:28:24,636 Speaker 1: you're amazing, Like I love your sweetheart, like I'm here, 402 00:28:25,036 --> 00:28:30,116 Speaker 1: you know, Like and that is I'm not saying that 403 00:28:30,116 --> 00:28:32,916 Speaker 1: that's something I've mastered by any means, but that's something 404 00:28:32,956 --> 00:28:37,036 Speaker 1: I that's the kind of friend to myself that I 405 00:28:37,116 --> 00:28:39,636 Speaker 1: want to be, like I want to be just so 406 00:28:39,716 --> 00:28:45,916 Speaker 1: steadfast least sticking by my own spirit. And and so 407 00:28:46,116 --> 00:28:49,196 Speaker 1: when all that emotion comes out, that's honestly what got 408 00:28:49,196 --> 00:28:53,076 Speaker 1: me through is just time and time again coming to 409 00:28:53,116 --> 00:28:57,796 Speaker 1: a point of like this can all be here and 410 00:28:57,836 --> 00:29:00,916 Speaker 1: it's okay, and like you can feel this all, I 411 00:29:00,956 --> 00:29:04,636 Speaker 1: can feel it all. It's not too much. It just is, 412 00:29:04,796 --> 00:29:11,156 Speaker 1: you know. And yeah, I mean that is a gorgeous 413 00:29:11,316 --> 00:29:17,716 Speaker 1: sentiment about sort of reaching back and and being the 414 00:29:17,756 --> 00:29:23,196 Speaker 1: person that you needed and the person you wish was 415 00:29:23,676 --> 00:29:28,636 Speaker 1: there for you. And I mean a lot of a 416 00:29:28,636 --> 00:29:33,236 Speaker 1: lot of my experience, particularly in the past year, has 417 00:29:33,276 --> 00:29:37,116 Speaker 1: been sort of toggling back to that time, to the 418 00:29:37,316 --> 00:29:41,316 Speaker 1: childhood time, and all of the ways that like little 419 00:29:41,516 --> 00:29:48,476 Speaker 1: me was not able to be and and that is 420 00:29:49,276 --> 00:29:54,356 Speaker 1: like a hard thing to reconcile when basically like your 421 00:29:54,396 --> 00:30:01,356 Speaker 1: middle age you know. Um, But also I think really 422 00:30:01,436 --> 00:30:06,316 Speaker 1: important for the person now to be able to know 423 00:30:06,556 --> 00:30:09,636 Speaker 1: that like, no, you're not bad, You're not ter, Like 424 00:30:10,076 --> 00:30:13,676 Speaker 1: everything you do isn't bad because because that's like my 425 00:30:14,076 --> 00:30:19,756 Speaker 1: struggle is like I've been like terminally bad my whole life. 426 00:30:19,876 --> 00:30:21,996 Speaker 1: I've been bad at work, I've been bad at school, 427 00:30:22,036 --> 00:30:24,316 Speaker 1: I've been bad in relationships. I'm a bad daughter, I'm 428 00:30:24,316 --> 00:30:26,156 Speaker 1: a bad sister, I'm a badness. I'm a bad that. 429 00:30:26,796 --> 00:30:31,836 Speaker 1: And and and also you know, the sort of degree 430 00:30:31,836 --> 00:30:34,836 Speaker 1: of forgiveness around you know, forgiving other people and forgiving 431 00:30:34,876 --> 00:30:37,996 Speaker 1: yourself and figuring out that. I mean, I think that 432 00:30:38,156 --> 00:30:40,876 Speaker 1: so many people struggle with the sort of self love 433 00:30:41,716 --> 00:30:45,116 Speaker 1: piece of things. Um, but keeping that in mind about 434 00:30:45,156 --> 00:30:47,596 Speaker 1: how like how you can be there for you is 435 00:30:47,636 --> 00:30:55,676 Speaker 1: really beautiful. And like I think that also your vulnerability, 436 00:30:55,716 --> 00:30:58,956 Speaker 1: I'm guessing is something that allows you to connect with 437 00:30:58,956 --> 00:31:02,836 Speaker 1: other people, like through your music, but probably personally. Yeah, 438 00:31:02,916 --> 00:31:05,676 Speaker 1: I think that is something that I can that's like 439 00:31:05,716 --> 00:31:09,116 Speaker 1: a gift that I have, that I have been given 440 00:31:09,116 --> 00:31:16,436 Speaker 1: and that sometimes I'm self conscious about because I am 441 00:31:16,476 --> 00:31:22,156 Speaker 1: so much in my like heart space, and sometimes I'm 442 00:31:22,196 --> 00:31:25,796 Speaker 1: just feel so much that I worry that it's like 443 00:31:25,836 --> 00:31:30,116 Speaker 1: too much for friends or people, and I'm like, am 444 00:31:30,116 --> 00:31:33,516 Speaker 1: I just a storm of like feeling all the time? 445 00:31:33,836 --> 00:31:38,356 Speaker 1: You know? But but I think that it is like 446 00:31:38,396 --> 00:31:41,476 Speaker 1: a cool tool. I mean, so, do you feel like 447 00:31:41,556 --> 00:31:44,956 Speaker 1: it's hard for you to do that within like relationships 448 00:31:45,036 --> 00:31:49,196 Speaker 1: or do you have access to do that? Very hard? 449 00:31:49,556 --> 00:31:57,116 Speaker 1: Very hard, feels very dangerous. It feels like, yeah, yeah, 450 00:31:57,156 --> 00:32:02,636 Speaker 1: it's it's it's extremely hard because I think that when 451 00:32:02,676 --> 00:32:05,676 Speaker 1: you've been told your whole life you're like too much, 452 00:32:05,716 --> 00:32:08,156 Speaker 1: you're too loud, you're too big, you're too aggressive, you're 453 00:32:08,196 --> 00:32:11,236 Speaker 1: too this, you're too that, and you make yourself small 454 00:32:11,316 --> 00:32:14,596 Speaker 1: in a lot of ways because you don't want to 455 00:32:14,636 --> 00:32:17,276 Speaker 1: burden somebody, or you don't want your problems to be 456 00:32:17,316 --> 00:32:21,596 Speaker 1: their problems, or you know, it's I mean, telling my 457 00:32:21,676 --> 00:32:24,076 Speaker 1: parents about my diagnosis is one of the hardest things 458 00:32:24,076 --> 00:32:25,596 Speaker 1: I've ever done. And I had to tell them I 459 00:32:25,676 --> 00:32:29,356 Speaker 1: was gay, and that's like that seemed hard at the time, 460 00:32:30,516 --> 00:32:35,116 Speaker 1: but this seemed harder because you're tracking back through your 461 00:32:35,116 --> 00:32:38,876 Speaker 1: whole life and they're tracking back and they're like, is 462 00:32:38,876 --> 00:32:41,196 Speaker 1: this an indictment on my parenting? Is this? This? Is? 463 00:32:41,196 --> 00:32:48,356 Speaker 1: It's that whatever you know? And so, but like there's 464 00:32:48,476 --> 00:32:53,596 Speaker 1: there's such a cost to vulnerability to me, it seems 465 00:32:54,076 --> 00:32:59,276 Speaker 1: and when but it's beautiful when you're proven wrong, right, 466 00:32:59,916 --> 00:33:03,876 Speaker 1: Like you take a risk and people step up for you, 467 00:33:04,116 --> 00:33:07,516 Speaker 1: and that's like that and then you're allowing them to 468 00:33:07,596 --> 00:33:12,516 Speaker 1: do that for you, thus creating some kind of connection 469 00:33:12,676 --> 00:33:15,076 Speaker 1: or bond. But it's hard to see that many steps 470 00:33:15,116 --> 00:33:19,516 Speaker 1: in advance. I think for me, you know, it's amazing 471 00:33:19,556 --> 00:33:22,356 Speaker 1: that you're able to see like almost outside of it, 472 00:33:22,396 --> 00:33:24,076 Speaker 1: like to be able to talk about it like this, 473 00:33:25,196 --> 00:33:30,756 Speaker 1: and you know, like that must have been a journey 474 00:33:30,756 --> 00:33:33,836 Speaker 1: to get there, to to I mean, it's amazing that 475 00:33:33,876 --> 00:33:36,876 Speaker 1: you're able to like articulate to yourself or understand like 476 00:33:36,956 --> 00:33:40,756 Speaker 1: what's even happening. Yeah, I think I barely can still, 477 00:33:40,956 --> 00:33:44,396 Speaker 1: But it's I guess you know, if you've ever felt 478 00:33:44,396 --> 00:33:48,156 Speaker 1: a compulsion like you have to do a thing, like 479 00:33:48,236 --> 00:33:51,596 Speaker 1: I felt like I had to figure out what was 480 00:33:51,636 --> 00:33:53,716 Speaker 1: going on with me and what had been going on 481 00:33:53,756 --> 00:33:56,436 Speaker 1: with me for my whole life. There was a sense 482 00:33:56,476 --> 00:34:03,076 Speaker 1: of urgency in sort of addressing that part of myself 483 00:34:03,316 --> 00:34:09,436 Speaker 1: and slowly inviting other people in to That has definitely 484 00:34:09,476 --> 00:34:12,956 Speaker 1: been hard because the reactions have gone from like stone 485 00:34:12,996 --> 00:34:20,276 Speaker 1: face like what to like, to like oh cool, um, 486 00:34:20,276 --> 00:34:23,436 Speaker 1: like when are we going like to get pizza or something, 487 00:34:23,476 --> 00:34:25,876 Speaker 1: you know, like like real nonchalant, to like what the 488 00:34:25,916 --> 00:34:30,316 Speaker 1: fuck are you talking about? Um? So yeah, And I mean, 489 00:34:30,436 --> 00:34:35,436 Speaker 1: I'm very good at compartmentalizing. So like I'm compartmentmentalizing this interview, 490 00:34:35,476 --> 00:34:38,596 Speaker 1: and I compartmentalize every interview that I do around this, 491 00:34:38,796 --> 00:34:44,516 Speaker 1: and and I every you know, recorded myself having meltdowns 492 00:34:44,836 --> 00:34:48,916 Speaker 1: and shared them with my producers, and I have to 493 00:34:48,956 --> 00:34:52,196 Speaker 1: compartmentalize that because if I think about it, I'm like, 494 00:34:52,796 --> 00:34:55,716 Speaker 1: oh my god, these these people who I'm working with 495 00:34:55,796 --> 00:34:59,396 Speaker 1: are hearing me at my worst. Um, and that's really hard. 496 00:34:59,476 --> 00:35:01,676 Speaker 1: So I just pretend like it didn't happen in the 497 00:35:01,716 --> 00:35:05,676 Speaker 1: first place. But and so, so I'll make this show 498 00:35:05,716 --> 00:35:07,356 Speaker 1: and then I'll put it out there and pretend like 499 00:35:07,396 --> 00:35:11,196 Speaker 1: I never made it. You know, Wow, Hopefully no one 500 00:35:11,236 --> 00:35:16,836 Speaker 1: talks to me about wow. And I mean, who knows 501 00:35:17,116 --> 00:35:20,276 Speaker 1: how you'll feel when when it's out and there in 502 00:35:20,316 --> 00:35:24,116 Speaker 1: the world. And like, I mean, how I when I 503 00:35:24,196 --> 00:35:29,356 Speaker 1: make something vulnerable there's the word again. I guess when 504 00:35:29,356 --> 00:35:32,276 Speaker 1: I make something like that though and put it out 505 00:35:32,276 --> 00:35:36,916 Speaker 1: in the world, I do feel like I've grown. Like 506 00:35:36,956 --> 00:35:38,436 Speaker 1: the main thing I take out of it is like 507 00:35:38,556 --> 00:35:42,036 Speaker 1: I've grown and now what that piece of work means 508 00:35:42,036 --> 00:35:45,636 Speaker 1: to anyone else, it's awesome like that that record songs. 509 00:35:46,156 --> 00:35:48,556 Speaker 1: I'm in a new stage of life. That's an encapsulation 510 00:35:48,596 --> 00:35:50,916 Speaker 1: of a period I was in. I'm not reliving that 511 00:35:50,996 --> 00:35:54,996 Speaker 1: over and over again. I learned from making it and 512 00:35:55,076 --> 00:35:59,916 Speaker 1: now I'm in a new stage, right, And that's that's 513 00:35:59,916 --> 00:36:02,996 Speaker 1: a cool. Part of it is like we don't lose. 514 00:36:03,876 --> 00:36:07,756 Speaker 1: We get to like gain a lot from diving into 515 00:36:07,796 --> 00:36:13,396 Speaker 1: these explorations of creating and of like sharing, I think, 516 00:36:14,316 --> 00:36:17,076 Speaker 1: and to a certain degree, it is like a skin 517 00:36:17,156 --> 00:36:20,236 Speaker 1: you can kind of shed, maybe like and it is 518 00:36:20,236 --> 00:36:23,036 Speaker 1: a gift you're giving to the world because they get 519 00:36:23,076 --> 00:36:27,236 Speaker 1: to then through just similar to how you're describing that 520 00:36:27,276 --> 00:36:30,396 Speaker 1: you had a moment driving down the road in the 521 00:36:30,436 --> 00:36:33,476 Speaker 1: desert listening to my song and it helped you access 522 00:36:33,556 --> 00:36:37,676 Speaker 1: your emotion. You cried, which to me is like a 523 00:36:37,716 --> 00:36:42,756 Speaker 1: positive thing because it's like movement of energy. So similarly, 524 00:36:42,996 --> 00:36:45,916 Speaker 1: this very show that you're creating could do the same 525 00:36:46,316 --> 00:36:50,036 Speaker 1: for others. Like in a way, once you've moved on 526 00:36:50,076 --> 00:36:54,076 Speaker 1: and you're you're totally in another chapter, digging into something 527 00:36:54,116 --> 00:36:58,116 Speaker 1: else and thinking about something else and working on something else, 528 00:36:58,156 --> 00:37:01,196 Speaker 1: some other part of yourself, this thing could ripple out 529 00:37:01,276 --> 00:37:06,916 Speaker 1: into helping people, helping change people's lives, you know, like 530 00:37:07,796 --> 00:37:12,476 Speaker 1: because you are sharing something real, you know that it 531 00:37:12,476 --> 00:37:14,756 Speaker 1: takes a lot. I do think it takes a lot 532 00:37:15,556 --> 00:37:19,956 Speaker 1: of courage to do that and share a part of 533 00:37:19,956 --> 00:37:28,116 Speaker 1: yourself like that. Adrianlinker is the lead singer of the 534 00:37:28,196 --> 00:37:32,356 Speaker 1: Grammy nominated indie rock band Big Thief. You can check 535 00:37:32,396 --> 00:37:36,556 Speaker 1: out the band's latest album, Dragon, New War Mountain, I 536 00:37:36,756 --> 00:37:40,876 Speaker 1: Believe In You on all the music streaming services. If 537 00:37:40,916 --> 00:37:43,956 Speaker 1: you want to learn more about adrian solo work, hit 538 00:37:44,036 --> 00:37:48,436 Speaker 1: up Adrianlinker dot com. This episode was produced by David 539 00:37:48,516 --> 00:37:53,076 Speaker 1: Jah and edited by Sophie Crane, mix engineering by Jake Gorsky. 540 00:37:53,676 --> 00:37:55,316 Speaker 1: Thanks to you friend for listening.