1 00:00:02,560 --> 00:00:07,400 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio News. 2 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:12,119 Speaker 2: Max Chaffkin, Stacey, do you know what day it is? 3 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:16,239 Speaker 3: It's Passover and maybe when you hear this podcast, it'll 4 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:18,640 Speaker 3: be good Friday, and it's almost Easter Sunday. 5 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:20,320 Speaker 4: It's a real holiday season. 6 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:23,600 Speaker 5: Well, that is true, but I was thinking of something 7 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 5: that looms. 8 00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:27,639 Speaker 2: In the university of our show a little. 9 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 3: Bit larger, Stacy, you're not talking about Liberation Day? 10 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 5: Are anniversary of Liberation Day? Of course, I'm talking about 11 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:34,080 Speaker 5: Liberation Day. 12 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:34,560 Speaker 2: Listen. 13 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:39,920 Speaker 5: This was a day when decades of free trade policy 14 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:43,280 Speaker 5: ever since World War Two were suddenly reversed, throwing the 15 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 5: global economy into chaos. What could be more significant than that, 16 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:52,200 Speaker 5: granted passover in Easter might be close seconds. 17 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:55,720 Speaker 3: Companies paid billions of dollars in tariffs. 18 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:56,840 Speaker 4: Prices went up. 19 00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:00,680 Speaker 3: We talked about this NonStop, and just at the very 20 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:04,320 Speaker 3: moment when it seemed like the kind of like tariff 21 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:07,640 Speaker 3: madness might be dying down with the Supreme Court ruling 22 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 3: that these tariffs, that the Liberation Day tariffs in particular, 23 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 3: were unconstitutional, Trump found like a whole new way to 24 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:17,560 Speaker 3: raise prices where we had the warren Iran gas prices 25 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:21,040 Speaker 3: it's basically been a year of economic crazy. 26 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:23,199 Speaker 2: They've been deemed illegal, but maybe they're back. 27 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:26,759 Speaker 5: But it is also quite a significant week for one 28 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:28,679 Speaker 5: of the very special people in your life. 29 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:31,920 Speaker 3: Max Yes, acquaintance of the show, Elon Musk. We're gonna 30 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:34,640 Speaker 3: be talking about him. I'm in San Francisco right now, 31 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:38,839 Speaker 3: Stacy Yes. And while that is happening, SpaceX, Musk's rocket 32 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 3: company is filing confidentially for an IPO. This is gonna 33 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:46,679 Speaker 3: be the biggest IPO anyone has ever seen. I'm not 34 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 3: just exaggerating, and we have really the perfect person to 35 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 3: talk about it. Dana Hall is going to be joining 36 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 3: me here in the SF studio to discuss this IPO 37 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 3: and what it means for the larger sort of conversation 38 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 3: around AI, and also what it means for all of us, 39 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 3: because as we'll get into we're going to all end 40 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 3: up owning a little bit of SpaceX probably. 41 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 2: And possibly going to Mars. 42 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 3: From Bloomberg BusinessWeek, this is everybody's business. I'm Max Chef and. 43 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:13,960 Speaker 2: I'm Stacey Vannicksmith. 44 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 5: Today on the show, we look at our new economic normal, 45 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 5: high valuations, high prices, and apparently Rhino Kett excuse me, 46 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 5: you will learn. So we're going to do something a 47 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:31,680 Speaker 5: little bit different now here at everybody's business. We're going 48 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:36,960 Speaker 5: to do a dramatic reading of a deposition from a 49 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 5: lawsuit that Elon Musk filed against Sam Altman and Open AI. 50 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 5: And this will feature Max Chafkin as Elon Musk and 51 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:48,920 Speaker 5: Bloomberg Tech reporter Dana Hall as Altman's lawyers. 52 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 6: Here we go, ahem, you attended Bernie Man in two 53 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 6: twenty seventeen, didn't you? I may have you were with 54 00:02:57,080 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 6: Tim Schultz? Who? Tim Schultz? 55 00:02:59,720 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 7: Who? 56 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 6: Tim Schultz? 57 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:02,920 Speaker 4: I don't recall. 58 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 6: Do you know when Bernie Man happens. 59 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:06,919 Speaker 4: Labor Day weekend, late. 60 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:07,960 Speaker 6: August, early September. 61 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:08,360 Speaker 8: Yeah. 62 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 6: Do you know what rhino kett is? 63 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:12,640 Speaker 5: No? 64 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 6: Do you know what rhino ketamine is? 65 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:16,799 Speaker 4: No? 66 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:20,640 Speaker 6: Do you recall at Bernie Man in twenty seventeen ingesting 67 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:25,480 Speaker 6: rhino ket and scene stacy. 68 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 3: Yes, thank you for indulging that wonderful dramatic reading. And 69 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 3: we are, of course talking to Dana Hall, our colleague 70 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 3: at Bloomberg Elon Musk reporter, my longtime collaborator on the 71 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:41,720 Speaker 3: Elon Ink podcast. Because Elon Musk is back in the 72 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 3: news and not only not just because of alleged drug use. 73 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:46,800 Speaker 4: This time around. 74 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 3: SpaceX, one of his many companies, has just filed, according 75 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:54,760 Speaker 3: to Bloomberg, for an IPO. It's trying to raise seventy 76 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 3: five billion dollars. That is three times the largest ever 77 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 3: IPO in history. I believe it would also make Elon 78 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 3: Musk a trillionaire, the world's first. 79 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 4: Yes. 80 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:08,200 Speaker 5: And I think it is important to dig into this 81 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 5: a little bit because on one level, Elon Musk is 82 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 5: just a very rich man who keeps getting richer. But 83 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:19,600 Speaker 5: I think it's important to understand how this IPO, how 84 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:22,840 Speaker 5: this company going public and selling stock to you and 85 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 5: me and everybody, is going to affect everyday people in 86 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:30,599 Speaker 5: a way that we might not expect or immediately hear about. 87 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 3: All right, yeah, and I guess at this point we 88 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:36,720 Speaker 3: need to welcome the thesbian herself, Dana Hall with me. 89 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:42,160 Speaker 4: And all right, so, Dana, you and I I. 90 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 3: Think caught that deposition last week that that was from 91 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 3: the litigation that's been playing out between Sam Altman, the 92 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:53,719 Speaker 3: founder CEO of Open Ai, and Musk, and it's Altman's 93 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:56,159 Speaker 3: lawyers are trying to kind of like undermine him or 94 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:59,920 Speaker 3: undermine his credibility by suggesting that he was on ketamine 95 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 3: while he was negotiating this deal with open Aiye. 96 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:06,160 Speaker 4: So, I have like two questions for you. One is, 97 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:07,279 Speaker 4: how is. 98 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 3: A guy who is in the news and constantly with 99 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:14,719 Speaker 3: all of this potentially erratic behavior allegations of drug use, 100 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:17,120 Speaker 3: how is he going to be the guy who can 101 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 3: do the world's largest IPO? And the second question, Dana Hall, 102 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:22,120 Speaker 3: what is rhino ketamine? 103 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:25,360 Speaker 6: Okay, I'm gonna answer the second question. First, I don't 104 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:28,280 Speaker 6: know what rhino ketamine is. It makes my brain immediately 105 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:31,159 Speaker 6: goes to like horse trank. Yeah, like other street drugs 106 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 6: that are also named after animals. 107 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 5: This is like when the horse trank is not strong 108 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:37,800 Speaker 5: enough for something, you go to the rhine and you 109 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 5: go that's the next step up. 110 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:41,960 Speaker 4: Heavy duty ketamine is my assumption. 111 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:44,760 Speaker 6: That would be my assumption also, But no, I don't 112 00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 6: know what it is. Actually my those my drug use 113 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:49,119 Speaker 6: days are long long past. 114 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:53,680 Speaker 3: Just to kind of recap the headline, we're recording this 115 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 3: on April first, we knew this was coming, but Bloomberg 116 00:05:56,800 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 3: reported that SpaceX had filed confidentially. This is like a 117 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:03,880 Speaker 3: sort of newish procedure that the SEC came up with 118 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:07,360 Speaker 3: to allow companies to essentially start their IPO filing without 119 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:11,679 Speaker 3: publicizing all the details. The valuation, Bloomberg is saying could 120 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:14,800 Speaker 3: be more than one point seventy five trillion dollars. We're 121 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 3: talking about seventy five billion dollars in capital. A huge 122 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 3: amount of money will likely come from retail investors. And I, 123 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 3: like you, somebody who's folity alone Musk for a very 124 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:30,040 Speaker 3: long time, is that he has specifically said for many 125 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:32,719 Speaker 3: years he would never take SpaceX public. He in fact 126 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:35,800 Speaker 3: hates running a public company so much that he tried 127 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 3: to take Tesla private in this incredibly controversial maneuver. 128 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 6: I always thought if they were going to do a 129 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:43,479 Speaker 6: public offering that it would be like Starlink, that they 130 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:46,800 Speaker 6: would like space out Starlink and take Starlink public, but 131 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:49,679 Speaker 6: SpaceX would stay private. But just in the past couple months, 132 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:55,720 Speaker 6: we saw, you know, SpaceX basically acquired Xai. Now SpaceX 133 00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 6: is also an AI company. I guess it's very telling 134 00:06:58,320 --> 00:06:59,840 Speaker 6: to me that we get the news of this file 135 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:03,360 Speaker 6: on the day that NASA is planning to send astronauts 136 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 6: around the Moon. So this is like a huge day 137 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 6: for space in general with the Artemis launch. But to 138 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 6: your point, yeah, like Elon hates running a public company, 139 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 6: but they need the money to do what they want 140 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 6: to do. The public markets have always showered Elon and 141 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 6: his companies with money, and this is a guy who 142 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 6: he's just very competitive. So that we're gonna have mega 143 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 6: IPOs this year if everything goes to plan, SpaceX Anthropic 144 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:29,480 Speaker 6: open AI. I guess SpaceX will be the first at 145 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 6: the gate and we'll see what the appetite is for that. 146 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 6: But it's just going to give us a level of 147 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 6: insight into SpaceX, who's on the cap table, who is 148 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:40,880 Speaker 6: who are the largest investors, how many Chinese and Russian 149 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 6: investors are there, what is Google's percentage? Like, it's going 150 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:45,760 Speaker 6: to be super fascinating to actually see those documents. 151 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:48,760 Speaker 5: So Dania, like you say, this kind of transparency that 152 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:51,280 Speaker 5: you have to do with an IPO is something that 153 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 5: most business owners do not like, they don't want to 154 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:55,480 Speaker 5: do it, but they do it because you can raise 155 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 5: so much money with an IPO, and you mentioned that 156 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:00,680 Speaker 5: SpaceX there's all kinds of things they want to do 157 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 5: with that money. 158 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:03,320 Speaker 2: So why is Elon Musk doing this? 159 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 5: Why take SpaceX public, even though it means having to 160 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 5: disclose all this stuff. 161 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 6: So Elon. The way that Elon thinks is he always 162 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:15,080 Speaker 6: looks for the limiting factor and then he solves for 163 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 6: the limiting factor. Okay, so if chips are the limiting factor, 164 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:22,120 Speaker 6: he's going to announce that he's building a tariffab. If 165 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 6: capital is the limiting factor, he's going to raise money 166 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 6: and the IPO market like Waxes and Wayans. If like 167 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:30,240 Speaker 6: capital is the limiting factor, he will figure out what 168 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 6: is the most efficient way to raise seventy five billion dollars. 169 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 6: It's going public, and you have this rabid fan base, 170 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 6: like the retail investor base in Tesla is north of 171 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 6: thirty percent, and you will, believe me, get like an 172 00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:43,960 Speaker 6: equally rabbit fairy. 173 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 5: Retail investors are like individuals as opposed to like big funds. 174 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 5: So you have a lot of just regular people pouring 175 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:50,840 Speaker 5: money into the stock. 176 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:55,120 Speaker 6: You'll have regular people being very excited to get into SpaceX, 177 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:57,880 Speaker 6: as well as a lot of longtime institutional investors. 178 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:01,760 Speaker 3: So I think Elon Musk has this tendency to just 179 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:06,160 Speaker 3: find these grandiose challenges. Dan, I think you were kidding 180 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:08,200 Speaker 3: to some extent that he was trying to kind of 181 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 3: one up this Moon launch. But I do think part 182 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:13,160 Speaker 3: of it is this is a guy loves a spectacle. 183 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:17,080 Speaker 3: Having the biggest IPO in history is a spectacle. Being 184 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 3: the world's first trillionaire it is would be an amazing 185 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:22,239 Speaker 3: and spectacle for Elon. 186 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 6: Musk, oh sure. And the IPO is timed around his birth. 187 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 6: Is supposed to be like timed around his birth. 188 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:27,319 Speaker 4: Also, like the. 189 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 3: Astral it's like when the planets are lining up, we 190 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 3: reported something, but. 191 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:33,319 Speaker 6: His birth that he'll be fifty five. 192 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:36,560 Speaker 5: It feels like ends of the day's stuff, like planets aligned, 193 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:40,160 Speaker 5: Elon turns fifty five, becomes the first trillionaire. 194 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:40,920 Speaker 4: I don't know. 195 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 3: I think there are two things that happen. One is 196 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:48,120 Speaker 3: that in the early days of the Trump administration, when 197 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:50,959 Speaker 3: Elon Musk was the most powerful person in the White 198 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 3: House or besides Donald Trump, Elon Musk was lobbying pretty 199 00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 3: hard to have a significant change in space policy, to 200 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 3: move who the US space policy away from this Moon 201 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 3: mission which is happening today, and to focus more on 202 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:09,560 Speaker 3: a Mars mission, which is the thing that he is 203 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 3: most focused on. It's what his the rocket that he 204 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:17,120 Speaker 3: is building Starship is for and that he basically struck 205 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:20,080 Speaker 3: out there that NASA is not going to fund a 206 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:23,720 Speaker 3: Mars mission in a big way anytime soon. Elon Musk 207 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:27,920 Speaker 3: is going to have to play within that structure. And 208 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:30,079 Speaker 3: as part of that, of course, there was the famous breakup. 209 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:32,480 Speaker 3: Elon and Trump are back together, but now he needs 210 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:35,440 Speaker 3: to find another way to point SpaceX, and he's decided 211 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:38,160 Speaker 3: to point it at the hottest thing in the world, 212 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:42,600 Speaker 3: which is artificial intelligence, where instead of focusing on Mars, 213 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:44,960 Speaker 3: we're focusing on the Moon and these AI data centers 214 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:47,440 Speaker 3: that we talked about back in February when the X 215 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 3: SpaceX merger was announced. Dana, do you think, besides being 216 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 3: all of the things we talked about, this would be 217 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 3: the first of several. 218 00:10:57,559 --> 00:10:59,199 Speaker 4: AI companies to go public. 219 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 3: Do you have any sense of whether investors will look 220 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 3: at this as an AI company or as an Elon 221 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:08,960 Speaker 3: Musk company, or as both of those things. 222 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:10,960 Speaker 6: I think it'll be an eat. I think they'll look 223 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:14,040 Speaker 6: at it as an Elon Musk company. And investors who 224 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:18,400 Speaker 6: have invested in Elon's companies have been handsomely rewarded for 225 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:20,880 Speaker 6: their loyalty and for sticking with the company through thick 226 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:23,720 Speaker 6: and thin, And we have to remember that SpaceX is 227 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:27,839 Speaker 6: older than Tesla, like SpaceX was like Elon Musk made 228 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 6: his first millions with PayPal and founded SpaceX in Los 229 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:34,040 Speaker 6: Angeles in two thousand and two. So this is a 230 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 6: company that is like it's like been around for like 231 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:39,080 Speaker 6: twenty four years, and so that's a really long time 232 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 6: to be private. I think that Elon also just has 233 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:46,960 Speaker 6: a really keen sense of the market and he timing 234 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:48,920 Speaker 6: is everything, and he feels like this is the time 235 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:51,920 Speaker 6: to go out. He's made mistakes obviously, like he overpaid 236 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 6: for Twitter and then regretted it. There is an art 237 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:57,200 Speaker 6: and a science to IPOs and like upsizing them and 238 00:11:57,440 --> 00:11:59,240 Speaker 6: getting the most in near rounds, and I think that 239 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:01,200 Speaker 6: he just feels like this is the window to go 240 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:04,080 Speaker 6: and go out before the midterms and then yeah, it'll 241 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:06,880 Speaker 6: be seen as an Elon company, a space company, and 242 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:09,480 Speaker 6: he will try to position it as an AI company. 243 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 5: Do we have any idea of when this will actually happen. 244 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 5: Is it definitely happening this year or do we know 245 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:20,800 Speaker 5: like when we can actually start to buy SpaceX stock. 246 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 6: There could be some force masure and he could like 247 00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:26,200 Speaker 6: they could pull the s one like, it's not a guarantee, 248 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:30,640 Speaker 6: but it sounds like they want to go out by July, right. 249 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:34,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Oh is this like a July fourth thing? 250 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:37,679 Speaker 6: No, No, it's by his birthday. Like his Elon's birthday 251 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:40,600 Speaker 6: is late June, so they want to have the IPO 252 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:41,520 Speaker 6: by his birthday. 253 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 3: But one thing, one thing is, and they're gonna force 254 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:48,719 Speaker 3: majure Dan is one hundred percent right. There is a 255 00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 3: chance that this won't happen. They are saying, and we 256 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:53,120 Speaker 3: are reporting that they are saying that they're going to 257 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:55,240 Speaker 3: do this within a couple of months, by this summer. 258 00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:58,320 Speaker 3: It's totally dependent on what the market is, and you 259 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:01,320 Speaker 3: never know what the market is in an ip until 260 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:04,560 Speaker 3: you start taking it on the road and until people 261 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:08,040 Speaker 3: get an actual look at these at the finances. If 262 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 3: the reporting on these companies is to be believed, they're 263 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:12,640 Speaker 3: not good. This is a company that's going to be 264 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:16,439 Speaker 3: losing huge amounts of money, largely because of Rock. And 265 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 3: part of the way that Elon Musk can potentially fix this, 266 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:24,120 Speaker 3: frankly is by drumming up enough interest from retail investors 267 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:28,840 Speaker 3: as well as by getting SpaceX into indexes. 268 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:31,040 Speaker 4: Very quickly. That's another thing that's sort of happening behind 269 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:31,440 Speaker 4: the sees. 270 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:34,760 Speaker 3: So not only will people buy SpaceX directly, but a 271 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:36,360 Speaker 3: lot of people's four or one k's are going to 272 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 3: wind up in this company if everything goes according to plan. 273 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:42,760 Speaker 3: At an absurd valuation potentially as much as two trillion dollars. 274 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:45,480 Speaker 2: That's like immediately too big to fail before it even 275 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:46,120 Speaker 2: goes public. 276 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 6: When Tesla went public, everyone thought that Tesla was going 277 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 6: to go bankrupt. And Tesla now has what like a 278 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:54,440 Speaker 6: one point four trillion dollar valuation. It's still the most 279 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:57,280 Speaker 6: valuable car company, even though they basically don't make cars 280 00:13:57,280 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 6: that much anymore. They've pivoted away from cars and toured 281 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:03,760 Speaker 6: AI and robotics at the cybercabs. He's a financial engineer, 282 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:07,840 Speaker 6: and he has long standing, deep relationships with Wall Street, 283 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:09,960 Speaker 6: and everybody wants a piece of the IPO. 284 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:13,440 Speaker 3: All right, last question for Dana, and this kind of 285 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:16,520 Speaker 3: will will transition nicely to our next segment. What's the 286 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:18,800 Speaker 3: status of Elon and Trump these days? Because the man, 287 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:21,400 Speaker 3: remember they had the big the breakup. You and I 288 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:24,640 Speaker 3: covered it very closely. He's very exciting. Elanacues Trump of 289 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:26,960 Speaker 3: being in the Epstein files correctly. It turns out Trump 290 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 3: threatened to take out all of Elon Musk's contracts or whatever. 291 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 3: That didn't happen, But we've seen a few signs that 292 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:36,320 Speaker 3: they are back together, right, Yeah, I. 293 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 6: Mean Musk spent was over the New Year's holiday or 294 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:41,480 Speaker 6: over the Christmas or New Year's holidays. He had dinner 295 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:45,320 Speaker 6: at mar A Lago with Milania and President Trump. He 296 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 6: has put some money into congressional races for this cycle. 297 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 3: He was on a call, according to New York Times, 298 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:55,400 Speaker 3: with Narindra Modi, the Prime Minister of India. 299 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 6: And Trump. He's like the most influential non state actor, 300 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:00,160 Speaker 6: as I like to talk about it. They are very 301 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 6: much aligned around the Save Act, which doesn't sound like 302 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:05,360 Speaker 6: it's going to pass Congress, but like they're sort of 303 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:07,440 Speaker 6: aligned around this idea that you need to prove US 304 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:10,520 Speaker 6: citizenship in order to vote. And yeah, I mean I 305 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:12,360 Speaker 6: think that there's a day time, you know. My my 306 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 6: suspicion was always that the dust up was a little 307 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 6: bit overplayed and that el was trying to get his 308 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:20,240 Speaker 6: pay package and he had to be seen as being 309 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 6: distant from politics or done with the White House in 310 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 6: order to get that pay package. Now that he's got 311 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 6: that pay package, all bets are off. And I think 312 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:30,440 Speaker 6: he's obviously still very close to Jade Vance and Peter Tiele, 313 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:32,880 Speaker 6: and it'd be interesting to just see how he plays 314 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 6: in the midterms. 315 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:36,600 Speaker 3: Okay, so what are the chances the SpaceX road show 316 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:39,120 Speaker 3: on the south lawn of the White House, just like 317 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:41,520 Speaker 3: a year ago we had the we had the Tesla 318 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:43,120 Speaker 3: sales pitch on the outlawn. 319 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 6: I don't think we're going to see what the gods. Yeah, 320 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:47,640 Speaker 6: I don't think we're going to see that. I think 321 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 6: you're going to see everybody go going down to the starship. 322 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:53,560 Speaker 5: Though, Dana, thank you so much for joining us, and 323 00:15:53,640 --> 00:16:00,160 Speaker 5: please come back as this rolls forward. So Max, it 324 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:05,240 Speaker 5: has been one year since President Trump introduced the raft 325 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 5: of tariffs on goods from nearly every country in the world, 326 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:13,480 Speaker 5: including islands that are uninhabited by people. The tariffs started 327 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 5: at ten percent. They went way up from there. And 328 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:21,120 Speaker 5: this was just a huge reversal of the free trade era, 329 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:24,560 Speaker 5: which is basically had done away with tariffs since the 330 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:27,360 Speaker 5: nineteen forties, had been moving in the direction of free 331 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:28,560 Speaker 5: trade as. 332 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 2: A way to prevent war. 333 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:33,720 Speaker 5: Now since Liberation Day. Of course, the tariffs have changed 334 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 5: hundreds of times. It's been kind of chaos, and the 335 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 5: whole global economy has been influxince. Then the goal here, 336 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 5: the stated goal of this was to bring manufacturing back 337 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 5: home to reduce the trade deficit. The results, though, I 338 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:51,440 Speaker 5: would say, have been complicated. 339 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, And we wanted to just get a read on 340 00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:58,960 Speaker 3: what how they're affecting normal people's lives. We sent our 341 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 3: producer Jazzmine JT Green out on the streets of New 342 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:05,760 Speaker 3: York to ask people how the tariffs were affecting their 343 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:08,439 Speaker 3: spending or how it seemed that the terriffs were affecting 344 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:08,840 Speaker 3: their spending. 345 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:09,800 Speaker 4: Let's let's listen to that. 346 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:14,080 Speaker 3: With the one year anniversary of Liberation Day, I'm curious 347 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 3: if the tariffs have affected your spending at all in 348 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:18,560 Speaker 3: the past year. 349 00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 7: It's just yeah, you can obviously just see like slow 350 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:24,160 Speaker 7: uptick and general pricings. 351 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:25,280 Speaker 5: Yeah. 352 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 7: I think that's kind of like my main observation right now. 353 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:29,840 Speaker 9: My dad, my dad works in construction in South Florida, 354 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 9: and he was saying that construction equipment has got or 355 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:35,000 Speaker 9: like like supplies basically gotten more expensive. 356 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 7: It seems like it's happening more in the last three 357 00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:40,119 Speaker 7: to six months versus it was happening all, you know, 358 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 7: suddenly a year ago. 359 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:43,520 Speaker 9: In general, just things are getting more expensive. I don't 360 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:45,120 Speaker 9: think it's had a positive impact. 361 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:47,880 Speaker 2: I don't think it's affected my spending so so much. 362 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:50,080 Speaker 2: I definitely feel like it's something I've noticed more on 363 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:51,439 Speaker 2: like imported things. 364 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:53,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, I feel like everything's expensive these days. 365 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:54,800 Speaker 5: It is kind of this thing of where I go 366 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:56,480 Speaker 5: to the store and if I'm really craving something and 367 00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 5: I really want something, I'm gonna kind of buy it 368 00:17:58,640 --> 00:17:59,440 Speaker 5: as a snack. 369 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:02,240 Speaker 4: Anyway, Like things are moving in a cheaper direction. 370 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:05,000 Speaker 9: But I don't know that I can place things being 371 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:08,679 Speaker 9: more expensive squarely on the sort of tariffs, So it's 372 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:10,440 Speaker 9: a little bit hard to know for sure. 373 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:16,280 Speaker 3: Thank you last guy for being careful. Journalists really appreciate that. 374 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:20,040 Speaker 5: I do find it pretty interesting that it can be 375 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:23,240 Speaker 5: hard to tell what prices are being affected by tariffs 376 00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:25,200 Speaker 5: versus other kinds of inflation. 377 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:28,160 Speaker 2: I feel like tariffs are a little tricky that way. 378 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:32,040 Speaker 5: But luckily we have an expert here to talk us 379 00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:35,440 Speaker 5: through what has changed and what has not. Laura Curtis, 380 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:38,560 Speaker 5: a Bloomberg reporter covering trade is here to break down 381 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:41,919 Speaker 5: the numbers and see how we have or have not 382 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:42,680 Speaker 5: been liberated. 383 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:45,320 Speaker 10: Welcome, Laura, Hi, thanks so much for having me. 384 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:48,359 Speaker 3: Stacy your co author as well. Stacy and Laura just 385 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:51,200 Speaker 3: wrote a piece that published, I believe yesterday as you're 386 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:53,520 Speaker 3: as we're recording this on bloomberd dot com, all about 387 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:54,040 Speaker 3: this issue. 388 00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:57,880 Speaker 5: Yes, indeed, we published a little guide for businesses wondering 389 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:02,440 Speaker 5: businesses and individuals wondering how to get their tariff refund. Laura, 390 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:04,400 Speaker 5: I'm going to start out pretty basically. You cover trade 391 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:07,239 Speaker 5: all the time. What has the last year been like? 392 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:09,920 Speaker 2: Can you give us some numbers? What has happened since 393 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 2: Liberation Day? 394 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:11,640 Speaker 11: Oh? 395 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:14,320 Speaker 1: Man, If you look at the actual tariff rates that 396 00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 1: have been in place for the last year, they haven't 397 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:19,480 Speaker 1: changed all that much, and they're at historic highs, that's 398 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:22,159 Speaker 1: for sure. But if you compare them to the threats 399 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 1: that President Trump has made lobbying different two on Champagne, 400 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:28,760 Speaker 1: and we did that twice in last year, and so 401 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:31,720 Speaker 1: that's been really hard for importers to kind of navigate 402 00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:34,399 Speaker 1: and to gauge because these things are changing so fast. 403 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:37,879 Speaker 1: It's also just really complicated, right, they're all these different 404 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:42,120 Speaker 1: tariff authorities. Trump's favorite one is now illegal, so we're 405 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:43,360 Speaker 1: favorite tariff. 406 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:43,760 Speaker 11: Yeah. 407 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:48,080 Speaker 3: The Supreme Court ruling against these Liberation Day tariffs. 408 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:49,280 Speaker 11: And particular that's right, Yeah, exactly so. 409 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:51,640 Speaker 1: The and they're called a bunch of different things, which 410 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:55,080 Speaker 1: I think also adds to the confusion. Their Liberation Day tariffs, 411 00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:58,280 Speaker 1: they're country specific tariffs. There, reciprocal tariffs, they're just all 412 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:00,719 Speaker 1: these emergency tariffs. All of those things call in that 413 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:04,720 Speaker 1: bucket of the potential refunds that Stacy and I wrote about. 414 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:07,080 Speaker 5: I have to say one of the interesting things about 415 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:09,640 Speaker 5: writing this article was we got into this long discussion 416 00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:12,440 Speaker 5: because we could not figure out what the tariffs were 417 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:15,679 Speaker 5: on furniture coming from the EU, and there were like 418 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:20,600 Speaker 5: several different sources that said several different things, and ultimately, 419 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:22,600 Speaker 5: I mean, it was just so indicative of the confusion. 420 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:24,360 Speaker 5: It's like, wait, where do we go to actually see 421 00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:28,760 Speaker 5: the actual number. He was like, well, it's complicated. 422 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:29,199 Speaker 4: Question for both of you. 423 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:33,360 Speaker 3: Supreme Court makes this ruling says that the Liberation Day 424 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 3: tariffs are illegal. Laura, you hinted at this, there are 425 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:39,480 Speaker 3: all these other tariffs that are still going on. Trump 426 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 3: has also said that he's going to find a way 427 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:47,480 Speaker 3: through different laws to essentially reimpose some version of the tariffs. 428 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:50,520 Speaker 3: But like, if I'm somebody who paid these tariffs, like 429 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 3: the hundreds of thousands of businesses in the United States, 430 00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:56,520 Speaker 3: what happens they give they send me a check like 431 00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:58,119 Speaker 3: tomorrow or yesterday or whatever. 432 00:20:58,200 --> 00:20:59,680 Speaker 4: How do companies get their money back? 433 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:03,840 Speaker 1: It's a we don't know yet, that's the short answer. 434 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:08,600 Speaker 1: But the Customs Authority customs in Border Protection is making 435 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:12,480 Speaker 1: progress on building this whole new system to handle these 436 00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:17,120 Speaker 1: refunds to the people who on paper imported all of 437 00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:19,920 Speaker 1: these goods. It could be a few months before we 438 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 1: see the first payments go out for the most simple entries. 439 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:26,440 Speaker 1: That's like the that's a pretty optimistic view. But that's 440 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:28,920 Speaker 1: what they're saying now For all of the other ones, 441 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 1: I don't I don't think we know yet. Think about 442 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:33,800 Speaker 1: all of the all the goods, for example, that came 443 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:37,400 Speaker 1: in with different teriff rates applied to them and stacking differently, 444 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:40,520 Speaker 1: and CVP has to go through those ones and say 445 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 1: we're removing this aita tariff, but maybe this means a 446 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:48,280 Speaker 1: metal tariff now applies, and so maybe this import potentially 447 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:51,800 Speaker 1: owes a different amount, or God help us, even maybe more. 448 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 11: I don't know. 449 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:54,760 Speaker 5: I mean the stacking we should say is like when 450 00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 5: there's like some there's like a tariff because of the 451 00:21:57,280 --> 00:21:58,919 Speaker 5: comforter it's from, and then you have to add on 452 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:00,320 Speaker 5: the tariff because of what it is it is. 453 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:02,120 Speaker 2: It's like when things start adding up. 454 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:06,000 Speaker 3: Is there possibility that Trump could just say nah, sorry 455 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:07,520 Speaker 3: not sending checks back? 456 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:10,920 Speaker 1: Sure, he says all kinds of things all the time. 457 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:14,520 Speaker 1: I think that's part of the confusion for everybody. The 458 00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:17,480 Speaker 1: Supreme Court has ruled these things illegal. It's about one 459 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 1: hundred and sixty billion dollars that the government collected over 460 00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:24,480 Speaker 1: the last year that's potentially on the line for to 461 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:25,240 Speaker 1: be returned. 462 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:28,920 Speaker 5: And that's three hundred and thirty thousand businesses or something 463 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:29,560 Speaker 5: like that. 464 00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:30,000 Speaker 11: That's right. 465 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 1: And I forget how many millions of individual entries shipments, 466 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:36,560 Speaker 1: but it's fifty millions something that can go check. 467 00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:39,639 Speaker 10: It's a lot of difference. That's a lot of paperwork, right. 468 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:41,240 Speaker 1: So that's one of the things that they're dealing with. 469 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:45,280 Speaker 1: I think if Trump does say nah, then it's just 470 00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 1: going to be a longer court battle, right. It might 471 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:50,560 Speaker 1: even end up back at the Supreme Court to hash 472 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:53,560 Speaker 1: out again. So I think that's what the sort of 473 00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:57,159 Speaker 1: less optimistic folks are worried about. 474 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 2: We did actually talk to one of the less optimist folks. 475 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:00,960 Speaker 11: Yeah. 476 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:04,280 Speaker 1: So Peace Fans is a really fun company based in Seattle. 477 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:09,760 Speaker 1: They retrofit, restore, rebuild all kinds of camper vans, a 478 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:12,800 Speaker 1: lot of your classic VW camper vans. I think some 479 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:15,880 Speaker 1: sprinter vans, I'm not sure. And then their new project 480 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:16,840 Speaker 1: is the new. 481 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:18,720 Speaker 10: ID Buzz by Volkswagen. 482 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:22,400 Speaker 1: It looks like a really retro sixties vibe camper van, 483 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:24,200 Speaker 1: but it's all electric. Yeah. 484 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:27,080 Speaker 5: They kit them, essentially, kit them out for campers so 485 00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:29,720 Speaker 5: they can put in like a pop top ten or 486 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:32,440 Speaker 5: they fit all kinds of furniture in it. But when 487 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:35,360 Speaker 5: we talked to him, this was what he said about 488 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:37,840 Speaker 5: he's He estimates that his company, which he said was 489 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:39,879 Speaker 5: worth between eight and ten million dollars, has paid out 490 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:42,680 Speaker 5: one hundred thousand dollars over the last year in tariffs, 491 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 5: and when asked about his expectations of a refund, here's 492 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:49,000 Speaker 5: what he said, Santa is. 493 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:51,040 Speaker 8: Going to bring me back ter refund this year. 494 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:56,159 Speaker 12: Not going to happen I have zero faith zero, you know, 495 00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:59,560 Speaker 12: and like that actually could have material impact on my 496 00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:01,000 Speaker 12: data day operations. 497 00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:03,120 Speaker 8: As a small business owner, you're just whipsaw. 498 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:03,880 Speaker 12: You know. 499 00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:06,560 Speaker 8: We want to hire, and. 500 00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,080 Speaker 12: We want to invest, and we want to plan and 501 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:11,239 Speaker 12: sign leases and buy inventory, you know, but we're just 502 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:13,080 Speaker 12: super cautious and hesitant. 503 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:15,960 Speaker 1: He was approached by one customer, for example, who, as 504 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:19,240 Speaker 1: soon as the Supreme Court ruled that these tariffs were illegal, 505 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:22,439 Speaker 1: was asking for his money back, and Harley's going, I 506 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:25,880 Speaker 1: don't know what you're talking about. I haven't seen any 507 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:28,119 Speaker 1: of this money yet. I don't know when it's coming. 508 00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:30,639 Speaker 10: He had to figure out how to be pretty nice about. 509 00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:32,159 Speaker 11: It, and I think handled it well. In the end. 510 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:33,760 Speaker 11: That was something you write, Stacy, is. 511 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:37,120 Speaker 10: Like a four hundred and fifty tariff surcharge that he put. 512 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 11: On this customer's bill. 513 00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:41,000 Speaker 1: And in the end, the tariff that Harleyett had to 514 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:43,679 Speaker 1: pay that on that piece was actually more like six 515 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:44,439 Speaker 1: hundred dollars. 516 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:46,200 Speaker 11: It's just a really tricky spot for him. 517 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:50,760 Speaker 5: What stood out to me about this, economically speaking, is 518 00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:55,199 Speaker 5: small businesses employ about half of Americans, and what Harley 519 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:58,400 Speaker 5: was saying about how he's held off on hiring, how 520 00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:02,119 Speaker 5: he's canceled leases, how he had asn't expanded, and Laura, 521 00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 5: you're saying you've heard this from all of these business owners. 522 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:09,040 Speaker 5: This feels like a huge impact, not necessarily an impact 523 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:13,240 Speaker 5: we might see as the economy shrinking, but in growth 524 00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:15,680 Speaker 5: that was lost, Like those are people who might have 525 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:18,280 Speaker 5: been hired who aren't getting hired. I just feel like 526 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:21,959 Speaker 5: the economic impact of that is pretty epic. 527 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:25,320 Speaker 2: And then this whole mess that's happening. 528 00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:26,160 Speaker 11: That's right. Yeah. 529 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:28,320 Speaker 1: I think I was struck by one of the one 530 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:30,600 Speaker 1: of the voices on the street earlier in the episode 531 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:31,639 Speaker 1: who noticed. 532 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:34,520 Speaker 10: That the price has really stayed pretty stable. 533 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:36,520 Speaker 1: For the first bit of last year, and then in 534 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:39,320 Speaker 1: the last three six months, he said he was noticing 535 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:43,000 Speaker 1: price increases. And that's something that economists have really pinpointed 536 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:46,119 Speaker 1: with some studies over the last couple months, just showing 537 00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:49,159 Speaker 1: that right after these tariffs, tariffs like these are implemented, 538 00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:52,880 Speaker 1: the economy slows down. Prices state maybe even drop little 539 00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:55,080 Speaker 1: because demand slows so much. People don't know what to do. 540 00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:57,240 Speaker 1: They can't hire, they're not going out and getting new jobs, 541 00:25:57,240 --> 00:25:59,400 Speaker 1: they don't feel spendy, and it takes a little while 542 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:02,640 Speaker 1: for these prices to trickle through. So I think you're right, 543 00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:05,239 Speaker 1: it's absolutely a delayed impact of this. 544 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,320 Speaker 5: And one thing that's interesting in the context of the show, 545 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:13,399 Speaker 5: because we were talking about SpaceX going public, is one 546 00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:16,280 Speaker 5: of the potential effects of these tariffs is to create 547 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:19,560 Speaker 5: this kind of K shaped economy among businesses. Because Harley 548 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:23,159 Speaker 5: made the point a bunch of times that for big businesses, 549 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:25,920 Speaker 5: they have so many options here they have slush funds, 550 00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:29,280 Speaker 5: they can lobby, they can hold up, they can move 551 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:32,520 Speaker 5: money around. But for small businesses like his, they're kind 552 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:36,040 Speaker 5: of month to month, and so they end up shrinking, 553 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:37,560 Speaker 5: closing their doors. 554 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:39,320 Speaker 2: They take the big hit here. 555 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:42,480 Speaker 3: Yeah they can, Stacy, you're saying, you're not saying they're 556 00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:45,240 Speaker 3: doing anything on tour. They just have lines of credit, yeah, 557 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:48,000 Speaker 3: and they can and big balance sheets and they can 558 00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:51,240 Speaker 3: afford essentially to weight this thing out. And I think 559 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:53,639 Speaker 3: a lot of big companies, including like Walmart and stuff, 560 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:56,760 Speaker 3: did this. They basically just ate the tariffs while they're 561 00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:00,199 Speaker 3: waiting to see what happens because they don't know they 562 00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:03,040 Speaker 3: looking ahead to the Supreme Court or Trump having another 563 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:04,440 Speaker 3: taco or whatever else. 564 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:05,639 Speaker 2: The same is true. 565 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:08,280 Speaker 5: I think even with all these lawsuits in this mess, right, 566 00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:10,280 Speaker 5: because if you're Walmart or your costo, you have a 567 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,399 Speaker 5: team of lawyers that can deal with all this uncertainty 568 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:16,399 Speaker 5: and do all the filings that need to be done. 569 00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:21,520 Speaker 5: And if you're Harley Sittner in Seattle retrofitting vans, like 570 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:25,119 Speaker 5: you don't necessarily have that time. So one of the 571 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:28,040 Speaker 5: things that you know, as Laura was mentioning, his customers 572 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,040 Speaker 5: are starting to write and being like, Hey, what about 573 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:31,480 Speaker 5: this tariff certain charge I paid? 574 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:32,280 Speaker 2: Can I get it back? 575 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:36,879 Speaker 5: We asked him what he was planning on doing with 576 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:39,960 Speaker 5: the money when he got it, and here's what he 577 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:40,640 Speaker 5: told us. 578 00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:42,919 Speaker 12: I would offer it back and I would sort of 579 00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:45,680 Speaker 12: do the passive aggressive thing, like you know, we've actually 580 00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:48,800 Speaker 12: already spent this money, like you put the energy out 581 00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:52,040 Speaker 12: there and hopefully it comes back, right, Yeah, I mean 582 00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:55,160 Speaker 12: for peace fans, you know, it's like it's the brain, 583 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:57,120 Speaker 12: you know, it's like, wait. 584 00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:59,200 Speaker 4: What is the brand? Is it passive aggressive? 585 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 11: Yeah? 586 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:02,760 Speaker 5: So he's gonna basically, and Laura correct me if I'm 587 00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:06,280 Speaker 5: wrong here, his plan is basically that he's gonna offer 588 00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 5: customers their money back with a little bit of a 589 00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:11,560 Speaker 5: are you really going to do this US. These profits, 590 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,280 Speaker 5: he said, are down by twenty five percent because of 591 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,560 Speaker 5: the tariffs. So he's gonna like offer it in a 592 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:19,840 Speaker 5: sort of if you really need your money back, we 593 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:20,879 Speaker 5: can make that happen. 594 00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:25,160 Speaker 1: But I think he said he would also potentially offer 595 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:28,879 Speaker 1: to donate it someplace, or it could help with his 596 00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:33,120 Speaker 1: teenage daughter's coffee fund. But yeah, he's trying his best. 597 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:35,400 Speaker 1: Not super hopeful that they'll come through anyway, but. 598 00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:37,879 Speaker 2: Yeah, or if they do come through, it could take years. 599 00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:38,440 Speaker 8: Right. 600 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:42,320 Speaker 3: One last question for me, I was just wondering if 601 00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 3: at any point you he talked about the upside of 602 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,200 Speaker 3: these tariffs, so writing to customers have brought this up 603 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:51,880 Speaker 3: if we go back to the kind of rationale for 604 00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:54,080 Speaker 3: liberation day year ago? Is this so that we would 605 00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:58,200 Speaker 3: have a glorious American manufacturing industry that seems to not 606 00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 3: have happened yet. But are there any of these Has 607 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:05,000 Speaker 3: he been able to source any van parts in the US? 608 00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:09,680 Speaker 3: And are any peace van customers like happy about the 609 00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:11,640 Speaker 3: TI Like is there any kind of like set I'm 610 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:14,600 Speaker 3: guessing the answers no, but like, is there like going 611 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:19,520 Speaker 3: to be a sort of renaissance of domestic van conversions? 612 00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:21,440 Speaker 4: As a result of these of these policies. 613 00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,920 Speaker 5: I would say he is in the manufacturing business a 614 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:28,160 Speaker 5: little bit, but our economy has become so global that 615 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:31,640 Speaker 5: he needs parts from overseas, as does so many other 616 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,840 Speaker 5: small businesses, even if they are doing the assembly here 617 00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:37,400 Speaker 5: in the US. So he's having to order all these 618 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:43,200 Speaker 5: parts from Germany, from overseas, and it's really hard to 619 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:47,240 Speaker 5: escape them even if you are an American US based manufacturer, 620 00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:49,120 Speaker 5: as I don't know if I would categorize him as 621 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:51,560 Speaker 5: a manufacturer, but he's a person putting things together. 622 00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:51,920 Speaker 4: In the US. 623 00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:55,320 Speaker 5: But he's really been slammed by this. So Laura, please 624 00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:58,760 Speaker 5: stick around. We have our underrated stories up next and 625 00:29:58,920 --> 00:29:59,880 Speaker 5: we would love to have. 626 00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:01,640 Speaker 2: You weigh in on these. 627 00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:09,880 Speaker 5: Max and Laura, it is time for our Underrated stories 628 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:10,360 Speaker 5: of the week. 629 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:13,520 Speaker 3: But before we do that, Stacey just want to acknowledge 630 00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:17,400 Speaker 3: you had doubts about talking about baseball. I did, and 631 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,000 Speaker 3: they had a lot to say, and I just wanted 632 00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:24,120 Speaker 3: to acknowledge a couple emails, one from listener Brian, who 633 00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:28,200 Speaker 3: was bringing up the other technical some other rule changes 634 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:30,240 Speaker 3: that have been made to the baseball season that we 635 00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:33,680 Speaker 3: didn't mention, including the infield shift. I suppose we'll have 636 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:36,520 Speaker 3: to dedicate another episode, perhaps a whole mini series. 637 00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:41,280 Speaker 4: I I don't think so. Thank you, Brian. 638 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:45,040 Speaker 3: Also thank you to Richard for pitching an idea. He 639 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:47,680 Speaker 3: basically said that we're going to talk about sports that 640 00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:50,280 Speaker 3: are hot. Right now, we got to talk about Formula one, 641 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:54,360 Speaker 3: which is also having a moment. Quote Demographically, the audience 642 00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:56,760 Speaker 3: is substantially younger and more diverse than the old white 643 00:30:56,760 --> 00:31:00,040 Speaker 3: guy prim me stereotype and pays big money for the 644 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:01,960 Speaker 3: excitement and international glamour. 645 00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:03,320 Speaker 4: Stacy, I think we got it. 646 00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:05,720 Speaker 3: We're gonna have to bring either bring Randall back or 647 00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:08,400 Speaker 3: somebody else to talk about this, because I have been 648 00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:11,920 Speaker 3: watching the Netflix F one show, so I'm basically. 649 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:14,480 Speaker 2: There was the Formula one Brad Pitt movie. I guess 650 00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:15,400 Speaker 2: Formula one. 651 00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:17,560 Speaker 3: I watched that as well, so I guess my expertise 652 00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:18,120 Speaker 3: is even greater. 653 00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:19,560 Speaker 4: Anyway, Richard, thank you. 654 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:23,760 Speaker 5: All right, now to our underrated stories. Mact you want 655 00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:25,320 Speaker 5: to go first? Do you want me to go first? 656 00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:27,280 Speaker 4: You go first, Dacey, You've got a good one. 657 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:28,600 Speaker 2: All right, this is very delighted. 658 00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:32,240 Speaker 4: Laura, listen closely. Yes, this hasari has. 659 00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:35,760 Speaker 5: To do its international trade I don't know if you 660 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:39,440 Speaker 5: have heard this, Laura, but there has been a big 661 00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:44,720 Speaker 5: global heist that happened this week. Twelve tons of Kitkats 662 00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:50,600 Speaker 5: were mysteriously stolen from a shipment going out in Italy. 663 00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:55,720 Speaker 5: Not kitkats, yeah, twelve tons, and they've just vanished, and 664 00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:59,040 Speaker 5: now the whole internet has exploded over all of these 665 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:04,960 Speaker 5: companies are putting out these funny like directives about pretending 666 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:07,120 Speaker 5: that they stole the twelve tons of kit cats, but 667 00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:09,560 Speaker 5: they it is mysterious, Like what wait. 668 00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:12,320 Speaker 3: Yes, both of you, I have not been following this 669 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:15,280 Speaker 3: story at all. What do we know who stole the 670 00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:17,600 Speaker 3: kit cats? Or is there are there any clues? 671 00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:18,440 Speaker 4: A cold case. 672 00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:22,040 Speaker 5: It's a cold case. They have no clues who the 673 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:27,200 Speaker 5: cat burglar is? Thank you, We don't know, Like there's 674 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:29,840 Speaker 5: no clues. And it's like twelve tons of kit cats, 675 00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 5: Like where did they go? And why of all the 676 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:35,080 Speaker 5: things to steal twelve tons of. 677 00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:37,080 Speaker 2: Why would you steal kit cats? What are you going 678 00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:37,800 Speaker 2: to do with them? 679 00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:42,400 Speaker 1: Have secondary questions like is this like one container full 680 00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:43,000 Speaker 1: of cats? 681 00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:45,600 Speaker 11: Like how many tons of kit cats fit in a container? 682 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:52,280 Speaker 5: I think it's one container of stolen. 683 00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:51,960 Speaker 2: A truck is a truck. 684 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:54,840 Speaker 11: A truck, Okay, I guess that's a little easier. You know, 685 00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:55,560 Speaker 11: need a crane. 686 00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:56,440 Speaker 4: Yeah. 687 00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:58,800 Speaker 3: So if I'm buying kit Cats, like at a bodega 688 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:01,560 Speaker 3: next week in New York, I should check the lot 689 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:04,600 Speaker 3: number and see if these are potentially Yes, they seem 690 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:07,120 Speaker 3: a little suspiciously, I check the serial numbers. 691 00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:09,640 Speaker 11: Yes, you might have some hot Kitcats. 692 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:12,640 Speaker 3: I don't think I'm the first one to float this theory. Yeah, 693 00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:15,840 Speaker 3: but this is obviously an inside job, right. This has 694 00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:19,000 Speaker 3: just been an amazing PR moment for KitKat. Are we 695 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:23,239 Speaker 3: sure that there even was a stolen truck of kit 696 00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:25,120 Speaker 3: Cats or is this Are we gonna find out it's 697 00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:28,120 Speaker 3: April Fool's Day as we're recording this. That's just been 698 00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:29,960 Speaker 3: a slow played April Fools shoke. 699 00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:32,520 Speaker 4: This reporting happened before April first, though, but it did. 700 00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:36,479 Speaker 5: Still, it's possible it is a brilliant PR stunt. If 701 00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:38,880 Speaker 5: it's a stunt, and someone did point out on social 702 00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:40,680 Speaker 5: media that this is cheaper than a Super. 703 00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:42,680 Speaker 2: Bowl ad, I don't think so. 704 00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:45,440 Speaker 5: I think it was just like a crime that happened 705 00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:49,080 Speaker 5: that people thought was really funny and mysterious. I'm not 706 00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:52,280 Speaker 5: sure what one does with twelve tons of iPhones. Yes, 707 00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:56,560 Speaker 5: I can completely see how you cash in on that. 708 00:33:56,560 --> 00:34:00,360 Speaker 2: Kitkats be also a little more complicated. 709 00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:02,560 Speaker 3: Seaking of things that should probably have been an April 710 00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:05,000 Speaker 3: fool's joke but are not in fact an April fool's joke. 711 00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:08,200 Speaker 3: Have my underrated story is and I don't know, Laura, 712 00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:10,600 Speaker 3: I don't know if you are a skier, but Stacy 713 00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:13,520 Speaker 3: and I are into skiing. And we got some very 714 00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:16,760 Speaker 3: bad news by way the Wall Street Journal last week. 715 00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:21,239 Speaker 3: Saudi Arabia's big plan to have skiing in their new 716 00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:24,239 Speaker 3: city called Neome is no more. You will not be 717 00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:27,600 Speaker 3: able to ski in Saudi Arabia. If you hear that 718 00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:30,239 Speaker 3: and you say to yourself, how could you possibly ski 719 00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:33,080 Speaker 3: in Saudi Arabia. It is a desert, it's very warm, 720 00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:36,200 Speaker 3: it doesn't really snow too much there. Those would all 721 00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:39,640 Speaker 3: be I think part of the objection that caused this 722 00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:42,440 Speaker 3: project to run into trouble. 723 00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:44,360 Speaker 4: The other part of it is I. 724 00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:46,759 Speaker 3: Think the amount of money and the fact that the 725 00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:50,439 Speaker 3: war and all this other economic uncertainty is causing Saudi 726 00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:51,520 Speaker 3: Arabia to rain things in. 727 00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:53,080 Speaker 2: It feels like. 728 00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:57,600 Speaker 5: A conflict in the Middle East is like the lowest 729 00:34:57,640 --> 00:34:59,880 Speaker 5: on the list of reasons. Why I feel like they 730 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:02,839 Speaker 5: would cancel skiing in Saudi Arabia, I don't know, but. 731 00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:07,320 Speaker 3: The defending the Emirates is expensive, and Saudi Arabia, along 732 00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:10,840 Speaker 3: with UAE, has been really splashing money around in a 733 00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:14,200 Speaker 3: lot of places. And I my assumption here is that 734 00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:17,880 Speaker 3: this project, the Tro Trohenna project, which would have been 735 00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:20,799 Speaker 3: the Middle East first outdoor ski resort, it just it 736 00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:24,560 Speaker 3: was gonna cost thirty eight billion dollars and and I 737 00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:26,080 Speaker 3: think basically that it's. 738 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:28,200 Speaker 11: It was going to be outdoors. 739 00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:31,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, oh my god. You gotta look at the renderings 740 00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:34,640 Speaker 3: because they are amazing. Like they were build. 741 00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:37,680 Speaker 2: It looks like the most would they make at snow. 742 00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:40,000 Speaker 11: There's not even so Colorado right now. 743 00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:44,320 Speaker 3: It's too hart So it it does snow a little 744 00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:45,759 Speaker 3: bit in the mountain, it's right on the board of 745 00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:48,800 Speaker 3: with Jordan. They do get a dusting in those mountains. 746 00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:52,640 Speaker 3: So it's high altitude. They were building this massive dam 747 00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:56,560 Speaker 3: that was gonna bring desalinated water up there, and then 748 00:35:56,600 --> 00:36:00,799 Speaker 3: they had this crazy plan to build it's elevated. They 749 00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:03,719 Speaker 3: had built these like elevated platforms and if you look 750 00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:07,120 Speaker 3: at the pictures, it looks phenomenal. I don't know if 751 00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:09,319 Speaker 3: it looks thirty eight billion dollars phenomenal, but it looks 752 00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:13,040 Speaker 3: like a fun place to go skiing. And one thing 753 00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:14,840 Speaker 3: that in the reporting on this, this is one of 754 00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:18,480 Speaker 3: the places where they're not just canceling a thing that 755 00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:23,000 Speaker 3: was just in the imagination of MBS or Saudi leadership. 756 00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:27,799 Speaker 3: They'd actually started building this dam that this superstructure that 757 00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:31,280 Speaker 3: they were building to have the ski hills is partially completed, 758 00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:33,719 Speaker 3: and the contractors who were building it just had their 759 00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:34,800 Speaker 3: contracts canceled. 760 00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:36,000 Speaker 2: I do feel like too. 761 00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:38,520 Speaker 5: I mean, Sadi Re've had a bunch of really ambitious 762 00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:41,280 Speaker 5: plans to build like city of the future and expand 763 00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:44,200 Speaker 5: its tourism, and I do feel like a lot of 764 00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:46,560 Speaker 5: money was going into that. It is interesting that it's 765 00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:47,600 Speaker 5: getting scaled back. 766 00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:49,399 Speaker 2: All right, Laura, hopefully you have. 767 00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:55,680 Speaker 5: Been enriched by this discussion about kit kats and desert skiing. 768 00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:58,040 Speaker 2: But thank you for joining us. 769 00:36:58,440 --> 00:36:59,879 Speaker 11: Thank you so much for having me. 770 00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:05,080 Speaker 3: This show is produced by Jasmine JT. Green and Stacy Wong. 771 00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:09,279 Speaker 3: Mangus Hendrickson is our supervising producer. Sam Rogich handles engineering 772 00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:12,520 Speaker 3: and a pricell fact checks, special thanks to Jeff Muscus, 773 00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:15,759 Speaker 3: Julia Rubin, Maria Ling, and Angel Ricky. If you have 774 00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:17,799 Speaker 3: a minute, please rate and review the show. It means 775 00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:19,239 Speaker 3: a lot to us. And if you have a story 776 00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:21,960 Speaker 3: that should be our business, email us at Everybody's at 777 00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:24,920 Speaker 3: Bloomberg dot net. That's everybody with an ass at Bloomberg 778 00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:27,920 Speaker 3: dot net. Also feel free to suggest baseball. 779 00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:30,520 Speaker 2: Related baseball related discussions. 780 00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:36,239 Speaker 3: Thank you for listening and we we'll see you next week.