WEBVTT - Stanford Takes Top Spot in MBA Ranking 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:04.440 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm 0:00:04.440 --> 0:00:07.280 Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanobek. We're here every day bringing 0:00:07.280 --> 0:00:09.799 you the latest news from the world's of business and finance, 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:13.640 plus technology, politics, economics, all partnising the power of Business 0:00:13.640 --> 0:00:17.119 Week reporters and editors, not to mention our journalists and 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:19.599 analyst in more than one and twenty countries. You can 0:00:19.640 --> 0:00:23.239 download Bloomberg Business Week and iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot com. 0:00:23.400 --> 0:00:25.160 You can also listen to our radio show at two 0:00:25.160 --> 0:00:27.840 pm Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio, or watch us on 0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:32.400 YouTube search Bloomberg Global News. Well. Bloomberg Business Week is 0:00:32.640 --> 0:00:34.720 a go to magazine for so many things. In depth 0:00:34.760 --> 0:00:37.520 features as you heard earlier with Drake Bennett, tech trends, 0:00:37.560 --> 0:00:41.120 economic theory, financial markets, politics, and of course the annual 0:00:41.159 --> 0:00:43.960 ranking of the world's top NBA programs and the latest 0:00:44.360 --> 0:00:48.400 list it is out online. We got Demetri Hassanidis with us. 0:00:48.440 --> 0:00:51.360 She is the one behind the Bloomberg Business Week Best 0:00:51.400 --> 0:00:54.400 at b School of twenty three. She's senior editor at 0:00:54.400 --> 0:00:56.200 Bloomberg New She's with us right now in the Bloomberg 0:00:56.200 --> 0:00:59.440 Interactive Broker Studio Demetra, I'm going to give you the 0:00:59.480 --> 0:01:03.960 honor of revealing the top spot here. Drumroll please, Stanford 0:01:04.080 --> 0:01:08.160 is the number one school year sec. Wait, this is 0:01:08.200 --> 0:01:11.720 not last year, this is two. Stanford has been the 0:01:11.760 --> 0:01:14.039 number one school for a few years running now, so 0:01:14.480 --> 0:01:16.800 no surprise. You know, it's got a lot going for it. 0:01:16.880 --> 0:01:20.119 That is very much about what people are looking for today. 0:01:20.640 --> 0:01:24.240 The classic industry, draws, the proximity to the tech industry, 0:01:24.760 --> 0:01:28.880 very strong programs, very entrepreneurial programs. On every point, it's 0:01:28.880 --> 0:01:31.880 really hitting the marks. So it's doing great. And then 0:01:32.280 --> 0:01:35.240 tie for second place she University of Chicago and Harvard 0:01:36.000 --> 0:01:38.920 UH and the top five get rounded out with Northwestern 0:01:38.959 --> 0:01:41.800 and Dartmouth. How often does like the top five kind 0:01:41.840 --> 0:01:45.080 of stay the same? I mean, I would say that 0:01:45.200 --> 0:01:47.840 it stays the same for a few years running, with 0:01:47.920 --> 0:01:52.480 some minor shifts among you know, among the schools. This year, 0:01:52.560 --> 0:01:55.559 the top ten, we're all the same schools. Is last 0:01:55.640 --> 0:01:58.560 year one or two went down one one or two 0:01:58.560 --> 0:02:00.960 one up one? You know that that's what you're dealing with. 0:02:01.520 --> 0:02:04.560 There are also very minor differences, I want to say, 0:02:04.600 --> 0:02:07.480 at those levels in this ranking, Like even though you're 0:02:07.520 --> 0:02:11.160 number one, or number two or number five. The points 0:02:11.160 --> 0:02:13.960 that are separating you from that next school are small 0:02:14.000 --> 0:02:17.799 and few, unless it's one between number one and numbers two, three, 0:02:17.840 --> 0:02:20.240 four and five. Right. That is, though, is very far 0:02:20.280 --> 0:02:22.079 ahead of Well, that's what's so interesting. Eight. Eight is 0:02:22.080 --> 0:02:24.760 the score that Stanford got. Um. I'm wondering when it 0:02:24.760 --> 0:02:27.800 came to diversity what the list looks like, because you know, 0:02:27.840 --> 0:02:29.679 you click on that and by the way, this is 0:02:29.720 --> 0:02:31.440 the type of thing to go check out on Bloomberg 0:02:31.480 --> 0:02:33.160 dot com or look at it on the Bloomberg terminal 0:02:33.200 --> 0:02:36.040 because it's a great interactive feature. Here. It's so funny 0:02:36.040 --> 0:02:37.960 because our producer would be like, should we put off 0:02:37.960 --> 0:02:40.600 the story and that's what we said, it's so interactive. 0:02:40.600 --> 0:02:42.600 Do you really want to go online with it? Exactly? 0:02:42.880 --> 0:02:45.119 It is? Um, I think they've I just want to say, first, 0:02:45.440 --> 0:02:48.320 not the one. There's a huge team behind this and 0:02:48.440 --> 0:02:51.040 the real people who are actually doing this, with the 0:02:51.080 --> 0:02:54.080 ones compiling, you know, looking at the data and building 0:02:54.120 --> 0:02:57.400 these amazing interactive tools. So definitely go to Bloomberg dot 0:02:57.440 --> 0:03:01.280 com slash business hyphen schools and you will have an 0:03:01.280 --> 0:03:05.119 incredible experience. But diversity, yeah, well, it's you know, Endeaversity 0:03:05.160 --> 0:03:06.800 is measured in different ways here and you can you 0:03:06.840 --> 0:03:09.280 can actually filter it in different ways here. But what 0:03:09.520 --> 0:03:12.359 does the rank look like when it comes to diversity, Well, 0:03:12.400 --> 0:03:15.720 you know, I mean, UM, I would say it's it's uh, 0:03:15.760 --> 0:03:19.480 it's mixed. So we're looking at diversity in terms of 0:03:19.520 --> 0:03:23.919 gender diversity and then breakdowns with um, you know, black 0:03:23.960 --> 0:03:27.280 students and Hispanic students. And we say this in our 0:03:27.360 --> 0:03:30.799 overview to the schools have and if there's one area 0:03:30.880 --> 0:03:32.840 where you know, we feel like there's a little bit 0:03:32.840 --> 0:03:36.160 of work to be done, it's in working towards that parody. 0:03:36.240 --> 0:03:39.120 So parody is when you're trying to sort of reach 0:03:39.320 --> 0:03:45.040 relative equality among certain groups. Um, you have seven schools 0:03:45.040 --> 0:03:48.000 only where there was gender parody that was met this year, 0:03:48.400 --> 0:03:53.320 eleven where black students had parody with you know, other groups, 0:03:53.560 --> 0:03:58.000 and UM eight schools for Hispanics. So it's it's not 0:03:58.120 --> 0:04:00.760 really you know, they're there is a ways to go, 0:04:00.840 --> 0:04:03.840 and I think in some ways now we're starting to 0:04:03.880 --> 0:04:07.160 talk about how b schools, you know, are they not 0:04:07.480 --> 0:04:10.000 even reflective of what's happening out in the world. There's 0:04:10.080 --> 0:04:14.640 so much talk and pressure you know, E S G. Equality, diversity, 0:04:15.200 --> 0:04:17.920 UM in the ranks of the c suites, and so 0:04:18.120 --> 0:04:20.760 that pressure I think is trickling over to the schools 0:04:20.800 --> 0:04:23.560 now to ensure that they are focused on getting those 0:04:23.640 --> 0:04:25.920 numbers up there. I am curious about the pandemic because 0:04:25.920 --> 0:04:29.360 it was tricky, right obviously, the pandemic anybody in academia 0:04:29.360 --> 0:04:33.520 and how that has at all impacted rankings or how 0:04:33.640 --> 0:04:36.720 you guys are looking at the different schools in the programs. 0:04:37.080 --> 0:04:39.320 I don't think. I don't know that they've meaningfully affected 0:04:39.360 --> 0:04:41.560 the rankings, especially this year. We did come back with 0:04:41.600 --> 0:04:45.400 the rankings after a year off last year, right one 0:04:45.480 --> 0:04:50.039 for UM. But I think the pandemic has affected a 0:04:50.080 --> 0:04:52.480 lot of things on campus as we're talking to people, 0:04:52.839 --> 0:04:55.680 hearing about the priorities of students, the interests that are 0:04:55.680 --> 0:05:00.159 starting to emerge career wise. The classics are always there, 0:05:00.480 --> 0:05:04.800 uh consulting finance technology, but now E s G is 0:05:04.800 --> 0:05:07.720 a big one. Climate change is a big one. UM. 0:05:07.760 --> 0:05:10.680 The pandemic and being home and experiencing life for two 0:05:10.760 --> 0:05:13.960 years in very different ways has focused people on different things. 0:05:14.040 --> 0:05:17.920 Interest in certain healthcare careers and how we're going to 0:05:18.080 --> 0:05:21.440 move forward from this age of covid um. Maybe other 0:05:21.480 --> 0:05:24.560 pandemics and what kind of opportunities are out there. I 0:05:24.600 --> 0:05:27.320 also think it's really focused the schools and the students 0:05:27.360 --> 0:05:31.039 on how they teach and how they learn, so everybody 0:05:31.120 --> 0:05:34.640 values in person. I don't think that's ever going away. 0:05:34.680 --> 0:05:37.640 But now people know that flexibility is possible, and there 0:05:37.640 --> 0:05:40.320 are really many different ways that you can fashion how 0:05:40.400 --> 0:05:42.599 learning is going to happen when you say in person too, 0:05:42.600 --> 0:05:44.000 And I know we have to wrap up, and I 0:05:44.040 --> 0:05:46.640 do highly recommend people go online because it's just so 0:05:46.680 --> 0:05:48.600 cool to kind of click through the different schools and 0:05:48.640 --> 0:05:50.280 get their rankings and just break it down in so 0:05:50.279 --> 0:05:52.560 many different ways. But I do think in school, especially 0:05:52.640 --> 0:05:54.360 when you think about business school, so much of it 0:05:54.440 --> 0:05:58.200 is outside entrepreneurs, successful entrepreneurs, business people who come into 0:05:58.440 --> 0:06:00.880 to speak and you get FaceTime. Tim. You know at 0:06:00.880 --> 0:06:03.760 first time when you're up at Colombia how important that is. 0:06:03.920 --> 0:06:05.680 Demit we have to run, but thank you so much 0:06:05.720 --> 0:06:08.719 to meet your Cassonedi. She's senior editor Bloomberg News. And 0:06:08.800 --> 0:06:12.320 check out that NBA rankings of Business Week. You're listening 0:06:12.360 --> 0:06:16.200 to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick 0:06:16.240 --> 0:06:20.119 Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. Yeah, it's a pretty 0:06:20.120 --> 0:06:22.560 busy Thursday and roving fun with our next guest. Not 0:06:22.680 --> 0:06:25.120 a guest, she's actually family. She sometimes subs in for us. 0:06:25.120 --> 0:06:27.680 She covers it when we're out. Uh, and she's got 0:06:27.680 --> 0:06:29.479 her hands in so many different pots. We're talking about 0:06:29.520 --> 0:06:32.320 Katie Greifeld, Bloomberg News, senior markets reporter, co host of 0:06:32.360 --> 0:06:34.880 E T F I q BA, Bloomberg TV and Tim 0:06:35.000 --> 0:06:36.839 She wrote a really about a really big in bet 0:06:36.960 --> 0:06:43.200 that happened last night. We were obviously I asked Carol 0:06:43.240 --> 0:06:45.520 that too, and she said she was asleep and as 0:06:46.000 --> 0:06:49.520 I think it was finalized, like completed, actually close to 0:06:49.520 --> 0:06:52.080 the book at like two, But that kind of makes sense. 0:06:52.160 --> 0:06:55.760 Did you stay up for it? But listen, when I 0:06:55.800 --> 0:06:58.000 woke up, I was all over it. Okay. So for 0:06:58.080 --> 0:07:00.520 people whose heads are spinning right now, being like, okay, 0:07:00.600 --> 0:07:03.320 what we're talking here, tell us what the merge is 0:07:03.360 --> 0:07:05.719 when it comes to ethereum. So we're talking about the 0:07:05.720 --> 0:07:08.960 ethereum blockchain. You probably know ether. I hope. It's the 0:07:09.040 --> 0:07:13.280 second biggest cryptocurrency, second to Bitcoin. It operates, of course, 0:07:13.320 --> 0:07:17.280 on the Ethereum blockchain, which underwent this big big revamps 0:07:17.320 --> 0:07:20.120 seven years in the making last night from a proof 0:07:20.240 --> 0:07:23.920 of work consensus mechanism to proof of steak. And that 0:07:24.040 --> 0:07:26.440 sounds really in the weeds, and it is. But proof 0:07:26.480 --> 0:07:30.040 of work is how bitcoins are mind and how ethers 0:07:30.120 --> 0:07:31.960 were mind. And it takes up a lot of energy, 0:07:32.040 --> 0:07:35.280 which you've probably heard about bitcoins energy consumption being a 0:07:35.320 --> 0:07:39.280 point of contention. Proof of steak is much more energy efficient, 0:07:39.440 --> 0:07:42.840 and proponents say that by moving to proof of steak, Uh, 0:07:42.960 --> 0:07:46.920 the ethereum energy consumption is going to be cut by okay, 0:07:46.960 --> 0:07:48.520 just because I feel like part of our process is 0:07:48.560 --> 0:07:50.880 to educate. So proof of work is what showing the 0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:57.040 actual mechanisms steak just saying the way that um, new 0:07:57.160 --> 0:08:01.040 baby bitcoins are born thirst day that everybody is the 0:08:01.120 --> 0:08:04.280 roof proof of work, where basically bitcoin miners have to 0:08:04.360 --> 0:08:09.880 solve increasingly complex problems to make invalidate new bitcoin. And 0:08:09.880 --> 0:08:12.640 that wasn't really a problem when bitcoin was under a 0:08:12.680 --> 0:08:17.160 hundred dollars worth pennies, as it was for a long time. Uh, 0:08:17.200 --> 0:08:19.720 but that takes up increasingly more and more energy. You 0:08:19.720 --> 0:08:23.600 have like these arms races between miners uh to solve 0:08:23.600 --> 0:08:27.240 those problems. So I mean you often hear comparisons like bitcoins. 0:08:27.280 --> 0:08:30.400 Energy consumption is that of a small country and even 0:08:30.400 --> 0:08:33.559 a big country, even a gig country country of Argentina 0:08:33.640 --> 0:08:36.360 or Ukraine is the latest, or several small countries if 0:08:36.360 --> 0:08:39.560 you add them together. So proof of steak, yeah, proof 0:08:39.600 --> 0:08:44.000 of steak basically it's you have a bunch of ether 0:08:44.400 --> 0:08:49.120 and you become a validator by staking your ether, basically 0:08:49.160 --> 0:08:52.040 putting up your ether. If you put up thirty two ether, 0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:55.040 you become a validator. And if you don't have thirty 0:08:55.040 --> 0:08:58.560 two ether and ether goes right now for round, it 0:08:58.600 --> 0:09:01.800 doesn't sound totally You have to sort of suspend your 0:09:01.800 --> 0:09:04.640 disbelief here, but stick with me, so you can if 0:09:04.679 --> 0:09:06.280 you don't have thirty two ether to put up and 0:09:06.280 --> 0:09:09.000 become a validator, you can join up with your buddies 0:09:09.080 --> 0:09:12.880 and become a joint validator. But the sort of net 0:09:12.920 --> 0:09:15.880 effect that the average person needs to know is proof 0:09:15.920 --> 0:09:19.400 of stake. It's much less energy intensive. So it raises 0:09:19.440 --> 0:09:22.080 the question about dominance when it comes to crypto here 0:09:22.320 --> 0:09:25.520 and the idea that okay, well, if ethereum successfully pulled 0:09:25.520 --> 0:09:29.360 off this merge, and it indeed uses less energy on 0:09:29.400 --> 0:09:31.559 a proof of steak model than a proof of work model. 0:09:31.880 --> 0:09:34.800 Does that mean it's going to be the crypto that 0:09:34.880 --> 0:09:40.080 is sort of crowned king Ether maxis would certainly hope hope. 0:09:40.559 --> 0:09:43.640 Those are maximalists, Yeah, people who really treat this as 0:09:43.679 --> 0:09:46.840 a religion. And there is this sort of event that 0:09:46.920 --> 0:09:50.240 hasn't happened yet. It's called the flippening. And what the flippening? 0:09:50.840 --> 0:09:53.920 Uh something to Paul Sweeney, Yes, control room, are we 0:09:54.040 --> 0:09:56.880 just is she just making up stuff as we go? Yeah, 0:09:56.880 --> 0:09:59.960 welcome to shady thoughts. But the flippening it's when Ether's 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:04.040 market cap will overtake that of bitcoin. Bitcoin still it 0:10:04.200 --> 0:10:09.000 has twice the can bitcoin do the same thing? That's 0:10:09.000 --> 0:10:12.360 a question that I've asked. And the thing about proof 0:10:12.400 --> 0:10:14.880 of steak, even though it really cuts down on energy use, 0:10:15.320 --> 0:10:18.360 it's not as tried and tested as proof of work. 0:10:18.400 --> 0:10:20.680 We know proof of work works, we know that it's 0:10:20.679 --> 0:10:23.480 hard to hack. People are really worried about sort of 0:10:23.520 --> 0:10:27.360 the security potential vulnerabilities with proof of steak, and you 0:10:27.400 --> 0:10:30.120 have to get the whole network to agree to do this, 0:10:30.240 --> 0:10:32.679 and Ethereum did. But there's a lot of hardcore bitcoin 0:10:32.760 --> 0:10:35.440 maximalists who don't want to do that, who say that 0:10:35.480 --> 0:10:37.560 this is sort of the price you pay for the 0:10:37.600 --> 0:10:40.600 security that the bitcoin blockchain as it operates right now 0:10:41.000 --> 0:10:44.080 provides you. When will we know if this works? It's 0:10:44.080 --> 0:10:47.480 a good question. We know at least that this initial phase, 0:10:47.559 --> 0:10:50.400 this big milestone, is passed, but in the weeks to come, 0:10:50.880 --> 0:10:54.120 it's going to be really interesting. So there are these 0:10:54.280 --> 0:10:56.960 sort of forks that are created. You're gonna have copies 0:10:57.000 --> 0:11:00.480 of ethereum that will spring up that will still is mining. 0:11:00.520 --> 0:11:04.520 It's not a perfect complete switch, so it'll be interesting 0:11:04.600 --> 0:11:07.199 to see how that operates. You did have a lot 0:11:07.240 --> 0:11:11.199 of exchanges, and while it's sort of cease ethereum activity 0:11:11.280 --> 0:11:13.480 leading up to the merge, those have to come back online. 0:11:13.600 --> 0:11:16.920 We haven't seen any problems that I know of so far, 0:11:17.240 --> 0:11:20.800 but the first time there's a security blimp, I mean 0:11:20.880 --> 0:11:23.640 that to me is the huge issue. Right Yeah, ultimately 0:11:23.760 --> 0:11:26.800 people will sees on that, and of course the proof 0:11:26.880 --> 0:11:31.000 of work believers, the bitcoin maximalists will also sees on that, 0:11:31.080 --> 0:11:34.160 but again we haven't seen evidence of that yet. What's 0:11:34.200 --> 0:11:36.040 interesting to me if you look at today's price action, 0:11:36.040 --> 0:11:38.960 though Ether has been rallying like crazy since mid June 0:11:39.400 --> 0:11:41.719 until right now, it is shaping up to be a 0:11:41.800 --> 0:11:43.960 sell the news event. You have Ether down about six 0:11:44.000 --> 0:11:46.640 point seven percent. You look at what bitcoin is doing, 0:11:46.640 --> 0:11:48.800 it's only done about one person. Where their questions still 0:11:48.840 --> 0:11:51.120 in just the last thirty seconds we have with you, 0:11:51.240 --> 0:11:53.400 if this was actually going to be successful, if the 0:11:53.440 --> 0:11:55.720 merge was actually going to happen, there were questions. You 0:11:55.760 --> 0:11:58.120 had a lot of people shorting Ether heading up into 0:11:58.200 --> 0:12:00.400 this sort of hedging the possibility that there will be 0:12:00.400 --> 0:12:04.840 a glitch because software updates. Uh, it's not perfect. Really, 0:12:05.080 --> 0:12:10.600 I've heard of breaking news so well told, so well reported, 0:12:10.640 --> 0:12:12.080 and I know it's something you can continue to keep 0:12:12.080 --> 0:12:14.560 a track on. Kati Gryfile, Bloomberg News, Senior Market reportic 0:12:14.679 --> 0:12:16.440 host of E T f i Q on Bloomberg TV. 0:12:16.520 --> 0:12:18.280 Which is why she knows so much as a little 0:12:18.280 --> 0:12:20.640 about bit going and all that good stuff. Um, I 0:12:20.679 --> 0:12:22.320 have a feeling she was up late waiting for the 0:12:22.360 --> 0:12:24.720 merge to happen. I think she she was awake, quite awake. 0:12:25.000 --> 0:12:31.400 All right, you're listening to Bloomberg Radio. This is Bloomberg 0:12:31.440 --> 0:12:35.080 Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes. Tim 0:12:35.160 --> 0:12:38.760 Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. Well, the new issue of Bloomberg 0:12:38.760 --> 0:12:40.959 Business Week it is out, it is on newsstands, it's 0:12:41.000 --> 0:12:43.320 online at Bloomberg dot com, Slash business Week and of 0:12:43.320 --> 0:12:47.000 course on the Bloomberg terminal and uh. The cover story 0:12:47.000 --> 0:12:49.439 this week is about the Chinese spy that wanted ge 0:12:49.640 --> 0:12:52.439 secrets about the US got China's instead. It's one of 0:12:52.480 --> 0:12:55.320 those what moments, Yeah, really is. It's a story that 0:12:55.360 --> 0:12:57.199 has all the trappings of a spy movie. We've got 0:12:57.200 --> 0:13:00.800 meetings in hotel rooms, copying hard drives dated lean from iPhones, 0:13:00.800 --> 0:13:04.360 and a political adversary looking for industrial secrets. Jodan Robertson 0:13:04.559 --> 0:13:07.000 and Drake Bennett wrote the piece. As Carol mentioned, it's 0:13:07.000 --> 0:13:09.880 the cover of Bloomberg Business Week this week. We got 0:13:09.920 --> 0:13:12.680 Drake Bennett, technology reporter for Bloomberg Business this Week with 0:13:12.720 --> 0:13:15.400 us right now in the Bloomberg Interactive Broker Studios. Also 0:13:15.440 --> 0:13:18.000 with us is Joel Webber, the editor of Bloomberg Business Week. 0:13:18.000 --> 0:13:21.120 He's with us in the Bloomberg Interactive Broker Studios. Joel, 0:13:21.160 --> 0:13:23.240 I want to start with you and just give us 0:13:23.240 --> 0:13:25.760 an idea about how a story like this comes together. 0:13:26.080 --> 0:13:29.240 As I mentioned, it's got all the trappings. Yes, yes, yes, 0:13:29.240 --> 0:13:34.040 I'm so excited about this story. Is just marvelous. So 0:13:34.280 --> 0:13:38.800 whenever you talk about China in US and in intellectual 0:13:38.840 --> 0:13:42.320 property and what companies have, you know, there's always been 0:13:42.320 --> 0:13:47.160 this assumption that in reporting has suggested that Chinese are 0:13:47.240 --> 0:13:51.520 really good at a spine and stealing stuff, and but 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:53.960 we never really get a sense of what that actually 0:13:54.000 --> 0:13:57.760 looks like. And so when Jordan and Drake Um came 0:13:57.840 --> 0:14:00.920 just with this story, the thing that just jumped out 0:14:00.920 --> 0:14:04.840 at us was, it's all there, we have all the reporting, 0:14:05.040 --> 0:14:07.840 and it's in part because of this cotton mouse game 0:14:07.920 --> 0:14:10.319 that evolved that I'm sure Drake's gonna tell us about, 0:14:10.840 --> 0:14:14.200 and it ended up in court, and because the US 0:14:14.280 --> 0:14:18.120 was able to not only nab this Chinese spy and 0:14:18.320 --> 0:14:21.680 his phone, we got it all, we got all the info, Um, 0:14:21.760 --> 0:14:24.520 and Jordan and Drake kind of pieced it all together 0:14:24.640 --> 0:14:28.440 and told this story that reads like you're gonna watch 0:14:28.520 --> 0:14:32.880 this on TV someday. Um. And so Drake, I mean, like, 0:14:33.080 --> 0:14:36.280 you know, this is raw stuff that you ran across, 0:14:36.600 --> 0:14:39.760 and I'm curious, just like when you saw it and 0:14:39.840 --> 0:14:43.320 Jordan's saw it, like, how did it pop to you? Guys? 0:14:44.400 --> 0:14:46.920 I mean, like you said, it's just an extraordinary opportunity 0:14:46.960 --> 0:14:50.480 because this is normally just a black box. UM. You 0:14:51.040 --> 0:14:54.520 just see kind of the outgoing stuff, UM, where it's 0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:56.800 the companies that are being targeted or it's the people 0:14:56.880 --> 0:15:00.200 that are being you know targeted as potential source is 0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:02.400 and you never get to see what goes on back 0:15:02.480 --> 0:15:05.400 in China. And what happened with this guy is he 0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:08.920 was you know, the first ever MSS officer to be 0:15:09.040 --> 0:15:12.640 lured out of China. The Ministry of State Security, so 0:15:12.680 --> 0:15:17.000 it's basically government Chinese yeah intelligence, which is responsible not 0:15:17.040 --> 0:15:20.840 only for military and government intelligence, but you know economic 0:15:21.680 --> 0:15:26.880 and that's a secret, no, like not a secret, not 0:15:26.960 --> 0:15:30.600 a secret. Um, we know what happens, we know a 0:15:30.640 --> 0:15:34.160 lot less about what it looks like. UM. And so 0:15:34.280 --> 0:15:37.920 when this guy gets lured out through this very painstaking 0:15:37.960 --> 0:15:42.840 FBI investigation, UM, he's arrested and he has his phone 0:15:42.840 --> 0:15:45.000 on him and he his iPhone on him, and he 0:15:45.040 --> 0:15:48.040 has backed up everything not I mean just everything to 0:15:48.120 --> 0:15:51.640 the cloud. UM. So there's all this like sensitive you 0:15:51.680 --> 0:15:55.920 know MSS documents. Uh, there's correspondence between him and his colleagues, 0:15:55.960 --> 0:15:58.600 between him and his sources, and there's also just a 0:15:58.640 --> 0:16:03.760 lot of like really intimate person detail about himself. UM, 0:16:03.800 --> 0:16:05.640 you know, he's he's someone I mean, you know, there's 0:16:05.640 --> 0:16:09.680 a lot of like his name is Juan John Um 0:16:09.720 --> 0:16:13.360 and he's um, you know, a lot there's some cloak 0:16:13.400 --> 0:16:15.480 and dagger stuff in the story, but a lot of 0:16:15.520 --> 0:16:18.560 it is also just the you know, he's this espionage 0:16:18.600 --> 0:16:21.240 bureaucrat and he's sort of like you watch him get 0:16:21.320 --> 0:16:23.880 sort of like ground down by his job, and he 0:16:23.920 --> 0:16:26.480 gets more and more unhinged, and he's just spending all 0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:29.600 this time and like massage parlors and drunken card games, 0:16:29.880 --> 0:16:31.880 and I think that may have sort of, you know, 0:16:31.920 --> 0:16:34.520 affected his decision making a little bit. I'm not gonna say, 0:16:34.600 --> 0:16:39.280 quiet quitting the US quiet quit for him? Um what 0:16:39.600 --> 0:16:43.120 tell us about the expense accounts? Right? Right? So? Um, 0:16:43.200 --> 0:16:45.640 he actually in theory, you know, these guys you know 0:16:45.760 --> 0:16:51.040 a lot of right, yeah, so in theory exactly, they 0:16:51.160 --> 0:16:52.680 they you know a lot of what they do is 0:16:52.680 --> 0:16:55.080 they're just handing people money, you know, three thousand dollars, 0:16:55.080 --> 0:16:59.360 six thousand dollars for your travel expenses or for whatever. Um. 0:16:59.400 --> 0:17:02.520 But he one of his sort of gripes over time, 0:17:02.520 --> 0:17:04.159 and it gnaws at him more and more, is that 0:17:04.240 --> 0:17:07.800 his boss just keeps rejecting these expense accounts UM for 0:17:07.840 --> 0:17:10.159 these dinners, he has to like recruit people and it 0:17:10.280 --> 0:17:12.679 just really drives him nuts. And you because we have 0:17:12.840 --> 0:17:16.119 his diary. He has this he treated his eye calendar. Basically, 0:17:16.119 --> 0:17:18.320 it's like a diary. So there's stuff about, you know, 0:17:18.400 --> 0:17:20.600 meeting with this person or doing this hack. And then 0:17:20.640 --> 0:17:23.560 it's just like my boss rejected the expenses again and 0:17:23.600 --> 0:17:27.520 he just like it clearly just burns him. So which 0:17:27.520 --> 0:17:30.520 are just epic, you know, So I just you just assume, 0:17:30.600 --> 0:17:32.440 like we take on the us anything you need, and 0:17:32.480 --> 0:17:40.479 it's like, actually it's yeah, the target that ends up 0:17:40.560 --> 0:17:44.640 being uh, so much of the story is actually ge right, 0:17:44.920 --> 0:17:48.400 what was what was this? By going for and and 0:17:48.440 --> 0:17:51.399 tell us about how that played out. So it's g 0:17:51.520 --> 0:17:55.360 E jet engines and it's in particular it's these uh 0:17:55.600 --> 0:17:59.879 composite fan blade and casings for the fan blade. So 0:18:00.680 --> 0:18:04.719 uh G Aviation is is still basically the only company 0:18:04.720 --> 0:18:08.679 that has these super lightweight fan blades and casing so 0:18:08.760 --> 0:18:13.240 their their engines can be lighter, UM, more fuel efficient, UM, 0:18:13.359 --> 0:18:17.359 safer uh and every and so basically this is a 0:18:17.480 --> 0:18:21.760 key technology UM that Drew had sort of focused on 0:18:21.840 --> 0:18:23.920 and he sort of a rise at this through these 0:18:23.960 --> 0:18:27.240 conversations with folks in the Chinese government, with folks at 0:18:27.280 --> 0:18:31.800 Stayed owned aircraft aeronautics companies UM in China, and so 0:18:31.880 --> 0:18:35.480 that's what So he, through this intermediary, through this academic 0:18:35.560 --> 0:18:38.879 basically a university official, reaches out to this engineer at 0:18:38.880 --> 0:18:42.600 the aviation, you know, through LinkedIn, invites him to come 0:18:42.640 --> 0:18:45.919 give this talk, and then it sort of begins. Um. 0:18:46.080 --> 0:18:49.680 What he doesn't realize is that midway through this process 0:18:49.720 --> 0:18:55.280 the FBI sort of intervenes UM and starts investigating Um, 0:18:55.359 --> 0:18:59.320 his his potential source at the aviation, who then through 0:18:59.400 --> 0:19:02.200 not to boil the end of the story, but who 0:19:02.280 --> 0:19:05.800 ends up being instrumental in in the investigation to then 0:19:05.920 --> 0:19:11.000 turn around and and trap um. You himself, our producer said, 0:19:11.160 --> 0:19:15.680 one of the stupidest or dumbest spies ever just got stop. 0:19:17.359 --> 0:19:19.200 I think that was one of the most interesting takeaways 0:19:19.200 --> 0:19:21.320 from this is like the idea that people have in 0:19:21.359 --> 0:19:25.000 their heads of a James Bond type figure, what is 0:19:25.040 --> 0:19:26.760 the life of a spy? Just in the last minute 0:19:26.800 --> 0:19:28.920 that we have with you, Yeah, I mean he's a bureaucrat. 0:19:28.960 --> 0:19:31.399 He's an espionage bureaucrat. You know, he's a cog in 0:19:31.480 --> 0:19:33.760 this big machine, you know, in certain ways. I think 0:19:33.800 --> 0:19:36.000 he he you know, he has a lot of power 0:19:36.040 --> 0:19:38.359 back home, and he sort of seems to abuse it 0:19:38.359 --> 0:19:40.720 in certain ways. But he also has this boss that's 0:19:40.760 --> 0:19:43.360 on him all the time, you know, who's like constantly 0:19:43.400 --> 0:19:46.040 demanding these things that he feels like a really unreasonable 0:19:46.600 --> 0:19:49.080 um and so it's a bit of a grim existence 0:19:49.080 --> 0:19:50.960 in certain ways, and I think it sort of drives 0:19:51.000 --> 0:19:54.240 him a little around the bend. No Martinis, No Weston 0:19:54.320 --> 0:19:58.000 Martin's No, definitely not there. Maybe Martiniz, but they're not 0:19:58.000 --> 0:20:01.480 gonna out one trip out of the country. You got 0:20:01.480 --> 0:20:05.360 to go to Belgium and then you know, oh my goodness. 0:20:05.400 --> 0:20:07.600 It is a great We're saying, where is he now 0:20:07.880 --> 0:20:10.000 in jail? Oh, he's in jail in Ohio. He's a 0:20:10.000 --> 0:20:13.600 winning sounding Yeah, we'll come back once way no more, yeah, 0:20:13.600 --> 0:20:16.439 exactly to be continued. But it's a great read. It 0:20:16.520 --> 0:20:18.160 is the cover story of the new issue of Bloomberg 0:20:18.160 --> 0:20:20.600 Business Week. As we mentioned, it is online on the 0:20:20.600 --> 0:20:23.239 Bloomberg on newsstands are Thanks to Bloomberg Business we get 0:20:23.240 --> 0:20:25.880 it to Joel Weber and Business Week technology reporter Drake 0:20:25.880 --> 0:20:29.280 Bennett joining us. Check out his story. You're listening to 0:20:29.320 --> 0:20:32.000 Bloomberg Business Week Carol Master, Tim Stanovic, and this is 0:20:32.000 --> 0:20:39.240 Bloomberg Radio. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol 0:20:39.320 --> 0:20:43.760 Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. 0:20:44.160 --> 0:20:46.520 Crisis averted at least it seems that way, as US 0:20:46.600 --> 0:20:49.720 railroads and unions representing more than a hundred thousand workers 0:20:49.720 --> 0:20:52.800 reached a tentative deal. According to the government, it's a 0:20:52.840 --> 0:20:56.159 breakthrough that looks to a labor disruption that risks adding 0:20:56.400 --> 0:20:58.720 supply chain strain to the world's largest economy. It was 0:20:58.760 --> 0:21:02.680 just like another thing ing you, like, are you kidding me? Yeah? 0:21:02.760 --> 0:21:05.960 I mean well, fortunately, yeah, it wasn't a joke. But 0:21:06.080 --> 0:21:07.680 it doesn't seem like things are going to be as 0:21:07.680 --> 0:21:09.320 bad as they could have been. We got Crety Group 0:21:09.320 --> 0:21:11.520 to joining us right now. She's Markets correspondent for Bloomberg. 0:21:11.560 --> 0:21:13.879 She's also right now on site at Greenville Yard in 0:21:13.960 --> 0:21:16.399 Jersey City, New Jersey, not that far from us, just 0:21:16.520 --> 0:21:20.119 right over the Hudson Uh Creedy. Uh, what's the latest 0:21:20.359 --> 0:21:26.760 about the unions and railroads actually reaching a tentive agreement here? Um? Well, 0:21:26.800 --> 0:21:28.960 it kind of seems like there's an all clear signal here. 0:21:29.320 --> 0:21:32.439