1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:02,840 Speaker 1: Welcome to five hundred Greatest Songs, a podcast based on 2 00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:07,120 Speaker 1: Rolling Stones hugely popular, influential, and sometimes controversial list. 3 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:09,160 Speaker 2: I'm Britney Spanis. 4 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:11,080 Speaker 3: And I'm Rob Sheffield and we're here to shed light 5 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:14,160 Speaker 3: on the greatest songs ever made and discover what makes 6 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:18,200 Speaker 3: them so great. This week, we're diving into Beyonce. 7 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:21,319 Speaker 1: So Beyonce has six entries on the list. She is 8 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:23,680 Speaker 1: the youngest artist with the most entries on the five 9 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 1: hundred Greatest Songs of All Time list. She has Savage 10 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:30,760 Speaker 1: Remix with Megan Stallion at four thirty eight, Break My 11 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:33,639 Speaker 1: Souls at four twenty eight, Destiny's Child, Say My Name 12 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:36,280 Speaker 1: is at two eighty five, Single Ladies is at two 13 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:39,880 Speaker 1: twenty eight, Formation is at seventy three, and Crazy in Love, 14 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:41,559 Speaker 1: which is the song that we are going to be 15 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:43,520 Speaker 1: saying a lot of time talking about, and of course, 16 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:47,519 Speaker 1: the world's introduction to I mean well, proper introduction to 17 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:50,720 Speaker 1: Beyonce comes in at number sixteen on the list. 18 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 3: Phenomenal, phenomenal song. Yeah, so unsurprising. Right from the start 19 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:58,080 Speaker 3: with Destiny's Child, it was clear that you know she 20 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:01,080 Speaker 3: was going to have this kind of epic run. 21 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it feels like six is like a small number. 22 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 1: I feel as we could add many more Beyonce songs 23 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:09,119 Speaker 1: to the list. I feel like, did you have any 24 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:10,480 Speaker 1: Beyonce on your ballot? 25 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:14,919 Speaker 3: Yeah? I had hold Up Yeah. Honestly, Lemonade is full 26 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:17,560 Speaker 3: of songs. I could see every song from Lemonade being 27 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 3: on this list. 28 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 2: Yeah. 29 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:20,760 Speaker 1: I also had hold Up Online too, and I think 30 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:22,760 Speaker 1: I had I'm pretty sure I had single Ladies as 31 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:25,560 Speaker 1: well on my list, which is of course a classic, 32 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:28,319 Speaker 1: and Crazy and Love is of course. I mean, that's 33 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:30,559 Speaker 1: the highest ranking on the list of the Beyonce songs 34 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:33,959 Speaker 1: and obviously encompasses so much of what we love about Beyonce. 35 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:37,280 Speaker 1: It helped debut her as her second solo single after 36 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 1: work it out for the Austin Powers soundtrack, which I 37 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 1: Love was her solo debut was to release a song 38 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 1: for Austin Powers. 39 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:46,960 Speaker 3: It's so funny. I guess it could be argued whether 40 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 3: that's canon or not. 41 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:51,440 Speaker 1: I mean, I do love also the grip that Austin 42 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 1: Powers had on all the pop girls. But Crazy and Love. 43 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:55,559 Speaker 1: Do you remember the first time that you heard the song? 44 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 3: Absolutely? It was Summer soundtrack New York City. At least 45 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 3: thousand and three. Funny you mentioned Austin Powers. It's strange 46 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 3: that sort of the last remnant of the pre Crazy 47 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:09,200 Speaker 3: and Love era was that Beyonce would be in a 48 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:13,120 Speaker 3: movie like that just as a supporting role. That was 49 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:15,680 Speaker 3: something that was clearly never going to happen again. After 50 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:20,359 Speaker 3: Crazy and Love launched her into solo superstardom, nobody was surprised. 51 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:24,239 Speaker 3: It was great. Yeah, everybody loved Destiny's Child. Everybody knew 52 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:26,600 Speaker 3: that she was going to have a solo career eventually, 53 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:29,920 Speaker 3: but it really launched her into the stratosphere. 54 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 1: I think everyone knew that every member of this band 55 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 1: was going to be doing well and that Beyonce herself 56 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:36,800 Speaker 1: was going to be a superstar no matter what she 57 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 1: was doing solo or with Dustiny's Child. So when Crazy 58 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:41,520 Speaker 1: and Love came out, it was just like, obviously, this 59 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 1: is perfect, this is a great song, Like it's just 60 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:46,239 Speaker 1: everything about it was built to be one of the 61 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 1: biggest pop pits, biggest summer anthems of all time. 62 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 3: Yes, in two thousand and three, which was such a 63 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 3: phenomenal year for pop music, and it was big on 64 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:59,359 Speaker 3: songs that you could call universal songs that absolutely everybody liked. 65 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:02,640 Speaker 3: Earlier in the spring, there was the White Stripes Seven 66 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 3: Nation Army, a song that a high school marching band 67 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 3: is right this minute playing that song, and Crazy in 68 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 3: Love for This Summer, and then Hey Yeah for the 69 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:15,720 Speaker 3: Fall by Outcast. Of course, these sort of across the board, 70 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 3: crowd pleasing songs that you could tell you were going 71 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:19,720 Speaker 3: to be hearing for the rest of your life as 72 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 3: soon as you heard him for. 73 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 1: The first time, and Hey Ya with the Beyonce mentioned 74 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 1: on the song too, another point of realizing that Beyonce 75 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 1: is going to be even larger than life, more so 76 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 1: than we could even imagine. 77 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 3: It's true. The only way you could keep up with 78 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 3: Beyonce was a hit that called all the Beyonces and 79 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 3: Lucy Lou's to the dance floor. 80 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 1: And I was reading about how the song came together 81 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:42,160 Speaker 1: and the producer Rich Harrison talked about how he had 82 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:45,760 Speaker 1: sampled the hook beat from this like seventy song called 83 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:47,840 Speaker 1: are You My Woman? Beyonce at first fear that is 84 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 1: going to be too retro, that the horns and kind 85 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 1: of that sound would be a little too too retro 86 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 1: for the time, and then after she accepted the beat, 87 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:57,200 Speaker 1: he wrote it in like two hours, and then she 88 00:03:57,280 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 1: came back and was talking about how she was like 89 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 1: looking at herself in the mirror and was like, I 90 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 1: look so crazy right now, and then wrote the bridge 91 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 1: and so like just that the song, which I love, 92 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 1: just like Beyonce getting inspiration from looking at herself in 93 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 1: the mirror. It's just like beautiful and perfect for the song. 94 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 1: And then the o's came together from both her and 95 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 1: Rich after the song was written, and Jay did his 96 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:20,240 Speaker 1: verse in like ten minutes, and they spent like three 97 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 1: months working on the rest of the recording of the song, 98 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 1: which is I feel also like pretty. 99 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 2: Emblematic of like Jay was like, okay, here's ten minutes 100 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:29,160 Speaker 2: and here's my verse. 101 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:33,440 Speaker 3: Rich Jarrison was so right about that horn fanfare. It's 102 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:37,799 Speaker 3: from a classic track by the Shylights, Legends of seventies 103 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:41,320 Speaker 3: soul Eugene Record, one of the best songwriters of the seventies. 104 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 3: For a song like that where it was an already 105 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:48,560 Speaker 3: super mega famous star making her official solo debut, there 106 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 3: was something so grand and formal about the horn intro. 107 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:54,360 Speaker 3: It was You've been waiting for years for this song. 108 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:55,120 Speaker 3: Here it is. 109 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:57,719 Speaker 1: It feels like so many people have tried to imitate 110 00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 1: that too. I feel like in the last two decades 111 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 1: like that is something that I think people have been 112 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 1: trying to continue to do in their own way, and 113 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 1: obviously Beyonce's is going to be the best version of that. 114 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:11,000 Speaker 1: This sort of it doesn't feel retro at all, doesn't 115 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:13,640 Speaker 1: feel like it comes from any other era other than 116 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:15,719 Speaker 1: whatever era Beyonce wants it to be part of. 117 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:18,040 Speaker 2: It feels so current and fresh. Even if you hear 118 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:19,160 Speaker 2: it for the first time. 119 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:24,039 Speaker 3: Today, absolutely, and hearing Destiny's Child for the first time, 120 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:27,880 Speaker 3: it was very clear. The first hit was No No No, 121 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:32,599 Speaker 3: which I loved in it's welled. In nineteen ninety eight, 122 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 3: they were still being marketed as y Clef Proteges, Yeah, 123 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 3: and the MTV version was in constant rotation, and No 124 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:44,840 Speaker 3: No No was just a absolutely phenomenal song. 125 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:45,280 Speaker 2: Yeah. 126 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:47,240 Speaker 3: There was a period in nineteen ninety nine where every 127 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 3: single rock star interviewed brought up Destiny's Child because that's 128 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:54,120 Speaker 3: who everybody was obsessed with. It didn't matter what kind 129 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 3: of music they made, whether they were, you know, a 130 00:05:56,400 --> 00:06:00,200 Speaker 3: techno producer or you know, an English rock star, they 131 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 3: were absolutely going to talk about how great Destiny's Child 132 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 3: were That album just sounded so different. It had so 133 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:09,520 Speaker 3: much futuristic energy and also so much personality with the 134 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:11,159 Speaker 3: commandments between songs. 135 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think even just thinking about the way 136 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:16,720 Speaker 1: that Beyonce presented herself in the group. They started off 137 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 1: as a foursome. There's the very infamous firing of the 138 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:24,160 Speaker 1: first two girls, and then later a third girl that 139 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 1: came in and she was fired, and then we finally 140 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:29,120 Speaker 1: get Michelle, and of course Beyonce and Kelly and Michelle 141 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:32,120 Speaker 1: are the iconic trio that we know and love and 142 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 1: still sort of kind of coexist in a lot of 143 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:37,479 Speaker 1: ways as Destney's Child. But you know, Beyonce was always 144 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 1: presented as the leader, as the person who was kind 145 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 1: of the director of the group, as the lead singer, 146 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:44,239 Speaker 1: as the person who was sort of in charge. 147 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 3: Jump and Jump In another absolutely iconic single from that album. 148 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:51,240 Speaker 3: I always think of the trilogy of hits from the 149 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 3: year two thousand with Crazy and Love, jump and Jump In, 150 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 3: and then Independent Women from Destiny's Child their song for 151 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:02,600 Speaker 3: the Charlie's Angels soundtrack. Another Lucy Lou reference. Lucy Lou 152 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 3: was getting mentioned in so many classic songs at that time. 153 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:06,719 Speaker 3: It was a kind of thing where, even if you 154 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 3: already knew all the songs from the album, it was 155 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 3: always exciting when the latest tit would break. It felt 156 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 3: like it was chapters of an ongoing story. 157 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:16,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, you mentioned that collective, that sort of girlhood and 158 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 1: that group being like these are you know, Kelly and 159 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 1: Beyonce are basically sisters. I mean they consider each other's sisters. 160 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 1: They've been with each other for their entire lives. 161 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 2: There's all these. 162 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 1: Amazing home videos of Kelly and Beyonce and Solange dancing 163 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 1: in in the Knowle's home, and you know, it's such 164 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:36,800 Speaker 1: a part of their life, and even with Michelle kind 165 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 1: of coming into their lives later, there is so much 166 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:41,560 Speaker 1: of that sisterhood and the fact that the band stays 167 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:45,280 Speaker 1: together even after, of course Crazy Love takes off. Beyonce's 168 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:46,240 Speaker 1: solo career takes off. 169 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 2: She's kind of. 170 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:50,480 Speaker 1: Becoming larger than life in her own career, but the 171 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 1: group is still there for years after. You know, they 172 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 1: don't separate, for they still make more albums after all 173 00:07:57,080 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 1: of this after Crazy Love breaks out, which I think 174 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 1: is always such a special part of thinking about the 175 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:03,920 Speaker 1: Beyonce story, thinking of the Dusty Child story was so 176 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 1: much more than just like this diva goes off and 177 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:08,360 Speaker 1: does her own thing like this was always a part 178 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 1: of a bigger package and part of a bigger thing. 179 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 3: I really love that aspect of it that she was 180 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 3: able to take off in this new direction soloise, but 181 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:18,000 Speaker 3: the group still. 182 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:20,240 Speaker 1: Continued, Especially at this time. This was when all the 183 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 1: pop groups are breaking up. Everyone sort of wanted to 184 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 1: be the solo star of those groups, and it was 185 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 1: super rare for the early two thousands to kind of 186 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:31,000 Speaker 1: let that group continue to prosper and also have your 187 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:33,960 Speaker 1: own solo hits on the side, and even just in 188 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:36,720 Speaker 1: the way that she sort of constructed her her solo career, 189 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:39,840 Speaker 1: thinking about the Crazy and Love performances with the Girls 190 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:41,880 Speaker 1: on the Side, or the single Ladies video of course 191 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:44,960 Speaker 1: being such like an iconic new version of that where 192 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 1: she had like the two female dancers kind of in 193 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 1: unison with her. It's still kind of a part of 194 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 1: how she sees herself as a performer. 195 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:55,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, totally, I love that Crazy in Love. It's so 196 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:59,840 Speaker 3: wild that it was such a different sound from Destiny's. 197 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 3: When she's had a lot of solo work, especially on 198 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:07,320 Speaker 3: her first three solo albums that sounded very much Destiny's 199 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:10,680 Speaker 3: Childlike it's funny that single Ladies is one. I mean, 200 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 3: I think of that as the most Destiny's Child sounding 201 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:16,440 Speaker 3: song of her solo career. And when she didn't do 202 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 3: it on the Lemonade tour, I thought, you know what, like, 203 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 3: I don't miss single Ladies at all, because she had 204 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 3: the Destiny's Child interlude that really paid respects. I love 205 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 3: how she put it in that tour. As you can tell, 206 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:29,600 Speaker 3: the Lemonade tour is a moment I revisit in my 207 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:33,839 Speaker 3: mind all the time. That is absolutely top live performance. 208 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 3: It's at the very top of live performances I've ever 209 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:40,680 Speaker 3: seen or experienced. And the way she says, you know, 210 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 3: the first time that most of you met me, I 211 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 3: was in Destiny's Child about ten years ago, and I 212 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:48,160 Speaker 3: want to thank you all for allowing me to grow, 213 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:49,560 Speaker 3: and I want to thank you all for growing along 214 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:53,400 Speaker 3: with me. And then she does that absolutely insane Destiny's 215 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:57,360 Speaker 3: Child medlet. As you said, Beyonce's tour movies in themselves. 216 00:09:57,440 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, And when Beyonce's breaking, I always think of the 217 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:02,840 Speaker 1: New York Times article that was Beyonce She's no Ashanti. 218 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:04,559 Speaker 2: I think about that one constantly, you know. 219 00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:07,480 Speaker 1: I guess like for my own sort of like history 220 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:10,680 Speaker 1: and thinking of it. Beyonce was just always she just 221 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:13,280 Speaker 1: always felt larger than life. She always felt like something 222 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:17,199 Speaker 1: that was like supernatural almost in the way that she 223 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 1: she looked and performed, and she just felt like almost 224 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:22,760 Speaker 1: like this goddess of like pop music. But then seeing 225 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:24,640 Speaker 1: that article later in life always just like makes me 226 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:27,440 Speaker 1: laugh because I'm curious, like, was there did people were 227 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 1: people not as sold on Beyonce as a solo performer 228 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:32,719 Speaker 1: when she first came out. If it was that sort 229 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:35,200 Speaker 1: of like a consensus or was that kind of like 230 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 1: a rare opinion. 231 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 2: In the Beyonce. 232 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 3: Critical everybody was so into Beyonce, definitely critically, and in 233 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:45,000 Speaker 3: the Destiny's Child era, everybody would have been fine if 234 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:48,720 Speaker 3: it had continued really kind of being Beyonce's group. Yeah, 235 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:51,680 Speaker 3: and that fascination with Beyonce that was so part of 236 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 3: Destiny's Child, But nobody was in naysayer about that solo career. 237 00:10:56,080 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 3: Chardonnay Sayer, I can refer the Great Horse Chardonnay her 238 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 3: cover star, But for Beyonce, one of the least surprising 239 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:07,440 Speaker 3: solo blow ups ever. 240 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 1: She especially because we're talking about this as we're in 241 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 1: act two of Beyonce's kind of you know, I think 242 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:18,640 Speaker 1: three act musical sort of reclamation project that she's in, 243 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:22,160 Speaker 1: reading about how she was fearful of the kind of 244 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 1: maybe too retro sound of the hook for Crazy and Love, 245 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:28,199 Speaker 1: and thinking about everything she's done since then, and how 246 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:31,680 Speaker 1: so much of her career and her music has been 247 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 1: about reclaiming black female music history, about kind of being 248 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:39,160 Speaker 1: a teacher of this history in so many ways, thinking 249 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:42,360 Speaker 1: about the centering of New Orleans on both like Deja 250 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:44,960 Speaker 1: Vu and in the Formation video, or thinking about you know, 251 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:48,480 Speaker 1: the sampling of when the Levee breaks on Don't Hurt Yourself, 252 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 1: and of course the country project that she has Cowboy 253 00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 1: Carter and having a song about Linda Martel and obviously 254 00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:58,720 Speaker 1: renaissance in the black queer disco history that she puts. 255 00:11:58,559 --> 00:11:59,199 Speaker 2: To the forefront. 256 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 3: Have a great coming out moment for her and jay Z. 257 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean this was right after O three, Body 258 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:08,280 Speaker 1: and Clyde, which was their first collaboration together. Back to back, 259 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:10,800 Speaker 1: like two excellent songs, but obviously Crazy in Love is 260 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 1: just Chef's Kiss perfect. 261 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:16,960 Speaker 3: Absolutely, It's really just kind of great that this was 262 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:19,360 Speaker 3: a song, like you said, like along with Bonnie and 263 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 3: Clyde where it was still really new and they were 264 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:25,439 Speaker 3: being so discreet. I always remember after the Dangerously in 265 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:29,120 Speaker 3: Love album that the VMA's where jay Z won an 266 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:31,040 Speaker 3: award early in the night and just at the end 267 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 3: of his speech said what up be And then Beyonce 268 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 3: at the end of her speech later and then I 269 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:38,280 Speaker 3: just said what up Jay and was like, oh my gosh, 270 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:39,960 Speaker 3: the coolest way to do this. 271 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:42,680 Speaker 2: And I mean, it's so funny now. 272 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:45,520 Speaker 1: I feel like the Beehive kind of always gets annoyed 273 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:48,840 Speaker 1: when there's a jay feature now, And of course, I 274 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 1: mean this was such a cool thing, you know, at 275 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 1: this time in her career, obviously jay Z being jay 276 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 1: Z and like, you know, the biggest rapper in the 277 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:57,679 Speaker 1: game at that point, Like you know, it's just like 278 00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:00,280 Speaker 1: this was such a big deal for them to come 279 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:02,120 Speaker 1: together and work on this music together. 280 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:05,320 Speaker 2: It's so funny. Just like I feel like, whatever, there's like. 281 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 1: A hint of a jay Z feature now before like 282 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:09,440 Speaker 1: please just let Beyonce be Beyonce. 283 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:13,079 Speaker 3: Absolutely very understandable. Also like soon after Dangerously in Love 284 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 3: and Crazy in Love, you have jay Z putting out 285 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:18,960 Speaker 3: the Black album, which has such awesome Beyonce presence on it. 286 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:21,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, I enjoy a lot of their stuff together. I 287 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:24,160 Speaker 1: always I love her appearance and watch the Throne. I 288 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:27,720 Speaker 1: think she has like obviously just such a good one. 289 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:30,600 Speaker 1: But yeah, I think I think they're collaborations are really fun. 290 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:32,400 Speaker 2: I love it. 291 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:35,320 Speaker 3: I always remember the moment hearing for the first time 292 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:37,440 Speaker 3: when he says, you know, I've got the hottest star 293 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:40,400 Speaker 3: in the game wearing my chain. Yeah, And it was 294 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:43,079 Speaker 3: so funny because that was such that was the beginning 295 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 3: of a holy story in the Yeah, and the Beyonce 296 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:45,880 Speaker 3: and jay Z era. 297 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:47,040 Speaker 4: Yeah. 298 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 1: And I think also the fact that he's at that time, Like, 299 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 1: I don't think people anticipated how much Heat stepped back 300 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:56,640 Speaker 1: from releasing music and over the course of his career 301 00:13:56,679 --> 00:13:58,600 Speaker 1: and kind of go more into the business angle and 302 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 1: kind of seeing how Beyonce has shifted, Like, I don't 303 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:04,600 Speaker 1: think anyone could have predicted kind of where they would 304 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:07,720 Speaker 1: both be at this point obviously still two of the 305 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:11,439 Speaker 1: most famous and successful people ever, but like, I think 306 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 1: no one could have predicted sort of the paths and 307 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:16,840 Speaker 1: directions that they would have e taken creatively and professionally. 308 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 1: And you know, this is just the beginning, just the beginning. 309 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 1: You know, it's so fascinating to kind of see how 310 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:27,200 Speaker 1: she's grown as an artist from that and how important 311 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:30,480 Speaker 1: it has been for her to not only center the 312 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 1: history but modernize it in a lot of ways. Like 313 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 1: it's almost like Crazy in Love kind of unlocked something 314 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 1: for her and unlocked kind of a new way of 315 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:41,480 Speaker 1: viewing herself as an artist or as a curator, as 316 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:43,640 Speaker 1: someone who can sort of be that vehicle in a 317 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 1: lot of ways. I don't know if you kind of 318 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 1: see that as a similarity and how she's presented herself. 319 00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:51,800 Speaker 3: It's so amazing what a huge part of her work 320 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 3: that is is her sense of history, which is just 321 00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 3: mind blowing. Her deep saturation in music and in music history, 322 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:03,480 Speaker 3: which was something that I think people were not fully 323 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:07,840 Speaker 3: cognizant of until relatively later in her solo career, when 324 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:10,040 Speaker 3: it was obvious from the beginning that she was somebody 325 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 3: who had studied who knew everything about music history. Really 326 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:16,360 Speaker 3: from the beginning, she was always a scholar of different 327 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:18,120 Speaker 3: types of music and different eras of music. 328 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:20,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, especially with the self titled there was so much 329 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:25,360 Speaker 1: of that that shift in giving her her do and 330 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:29,000 Speaker 1: giving her respect for her artistry. I think that in 331 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 1: a lot of ways, in the same way that a 332 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 1: lot of pop artists, especially from the early two thousands 333 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:36,240 Speaker 1: late nineties, who were seen as manufacturers, seen as you know, 334 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:38,840 Speaker 1: like especially having someone who was like a kind of 335 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 1: a father manager who was overseeing so much of her 336 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:44,480 Speaker 1: career for so long, and coming from a pop group 337 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:47,880 Speaker 1: and coming from this very specific time and place of music, 338 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 1: was seen as sort of inauthentic in a lot of ways, 339 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 1: or seen as someone who, you know, there was all 340 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 1: these writers at her songs, Like you know, when people 341 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:57,000 Speaker 1: do the comparison of like it's just Freddie Mercury who 342 00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:00,240 Speaker 1: wrote this song, and then there's like ten people on 343 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:02,520 Speaker 1: on this, like it's like, okay, you know, it's like 344 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:05,400 Speaker 1: more complicated than that. You know, it's artistry is it's 345 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:08,320 Speaker 1: not just like it has to be one person writing 346 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 1: a song and that's you know, authenticity. But you know, 347 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:14,640 Speaker 1: she's always been such like a huge music nerd. To me, 348 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:17,680 Speaker 1: I always talk about this in the Taylor Switch classroom, 349 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:20,280 Speaker 1: like they're the two biggest nerds in music, Like, I 350 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:22,840 Speaker 1: think both of them have gone as far as they have, 351 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 1: and the reason why we compare them so much and 352 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 1: why we look at those two artists right now and 353 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 1: why they still continue to have such big careers is 354 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:31,480 Speaker 1: because they're huge nerds. 355 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 2: Like they love music history. 356 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 1: Even just like the Grammys after Crazy Love came out, 357 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 1: Beyonce's on stage performing a medley with Prince. 358 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:40,640 Speaker 2: There's so much prints. 359 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 1: In the Dangerously in Love album, and it's kind of 360 00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:46,120 Speaker 1: like a perfect combination of her sort of pain homage, 361 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:50,400 Speaker 1: but also showing kind of this like this connection musically 362 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:53,280 Speaker 1: to who she is and what she's done. Thinking of 363 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:56,040 Speaker 1: all the tributes she's paid to Tina Turner and Donna 364 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:58,720 Speaker 1: Summer and Eda James, whether Eda James likes it or not, 365 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:02,920 Speaker 1: you know, it's like all these and Aretha, whether or 366 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:05,359 Speaker 1: not Aretha likes it, you know. It's like and just 367 00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:07,320 Speaker 1: kind of seeing the way that that's developed in her career, 368 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:10,159 Speaker 1: Like she is such a student of music history, and 369 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:12,199 Speaker 1: I think that is so undervalued in the way that 370 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 1: she had been very undervalued for way too long. I 371 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:17,600 Speaker 1: think now people are really like, oh, yes, she is 372 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:21,360 Speaker 1: like so knowledgeable about this because it's she's making it 373 00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:23,240 Speaker 1: clearer than ever for people who didn't. 374 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:23,560 Speaker 2: Get it before. 375 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:26,159 Speaker 3: Totally. I hope it's okay to say, Brittany, but the 376 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:29,239 Speaker 3: way that you've written about Beyonce's music, nerdom and her 377 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:33,280 Speaker 3: sense of history is always such a revelation anybody who 378 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:37,080 Speaker 3: hasn't read Brittany's essay on the song Don't Hurt Yourself, 379 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:40,159 Speaker 3: which she wrote, you know, the day after everybody heard 380 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:43,399 Speaker 3: it for the first time. Brittany wrote this incredibly mind blowing, 381 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 3: still mind blowing to read with everything we know about 382 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:49,360 Speaker 3: Beyonce and what she's done since then, but about Beyonce 383 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:52,679 Speaker 3: and led Zeppelin and Memphis Mini and the whole history 384 00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:56,240 Speaker 3: of when the Levy Breaks, just one of my favorite 385 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 3: things ever written about pop music in the English language 386 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 3: in terms of her sense of history. A moment that 387 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 3: was totally mind blowing from the Lemonade tour, a tour 388 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:08,600 Speaker 3: that was nothing but mind blowing moments, but where she 389 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:11,280 Speaker 3: had the interlude in honor of Prince because of course, 390 00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:16,119 Speaker 3: Beyonce released Lemonade the weekend the Prince died, and everybody 391 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:18,760 Speaker 3: was looking forward to the album. They thought it would 392 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:21,639 Speaker 3: be released sometime that weekend. But when Prince died on 393 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 3: Thursday afternoon. People thought, well, maybe Beyonce will hold back 394 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:29,320 Speaker 3: the album just out of respect or even just having 395 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:32,520 Speaker 3: the moment to herself. But Beyonce being very in touch 396 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:35,320 Speaker 3: with Prince and his spirit, you know, having worked together 397 00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:38,119 Speaker 3: while he was alive, but also carrying that torch the 398 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:41,080 Speaker 3: Lemonade tour. The moment where she does her Prince tribute. 399 00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:44,359 Speaker 3: It's funny because when she starts, people think, oh, she's 400 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:47,119 Speaker 3: gonna do maybe Purple Rain, because you could do a 401 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:49,440 Speaker 3: couple verses of Purple Rain. It's a hit, it's a 402 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:53,000 Speaker 3: power ballad, and she does the beautiful ones, which is 403 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:57,440 Speaker 3: impossible to sing. It's impossible to excerpt. Once you start 404 00:18:57,480 --> 00:18:59,480 Speaker 3: singing the song, you have to go all the way through, 405 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:03,159 Speaker 3: extremely long. This is a moment in her solo show. 406 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:06,920 Speaker 3: There's eighty thousand people in Cityfield who want nothing more 407 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:10,920 Speaker 3: than more Beyonce songs, and yet she does this honestly 408 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:17,080 Speaker 3: physically impossible to sing tribute to Prince that is coming 409 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:19,359 Speaker 3: so straight from the heart, but also the level of 410 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:23,040 Speaker 3: artistry that goes into that performance and just really amazing. 411 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:26,879 Speaker 3: Being grounded in that moment was so important to her 412 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 3: and her solo show and her Lemonade show that that 413 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:33,920 Speaker 3: connection to history was something that she wanted to make 414 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:37,080 Speaker 3: such a centerpiece of that show. Any song she does, 415 00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:40,240 Speaker 3: she really beyonceizes it. You know, there's no way for 416 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:43,520 Speaker 3: her to sort of gesture at a song without stepping 417 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 3: in as a major part of its history. And her 418 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:49,240 Speaker 3: performance of Alanis You Want to Know was a key 419 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:52,320 Speaker 3: moment for her in terms of her solo artistry, as 420 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:56,920 Speaker 3: as you said, reclaiming pieces of music and taking them 421 00:19:56,960 --> 00:19:59,119 Speaker 3: somewhere new. A version of You Ought to Know is 422 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:00,000 Speaker 3: really phenomenal. 423 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:01,920 Speaker 1: Her version of Sex on Fire by Kings of Leon 424 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:04,880 Speaker 1: also incredible. Doesn't have to reclaim anything. I just really 425 00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:08,200 Speaker 1: like it, like, yeah, it's very good. And next we'll 426 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 1: be joined by our colleague, Rolling Stone staff writer Manka Perconte. 427 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:16,360 Speaker 1: We are now joined by Rolling Stone staffire Manca Percante. 428 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:19,200 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for being here today. 429 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 5: Thanks for having me. 430 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:22,919 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, a legend, true, true legend. 431 00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:27,280 Speaker 3: Oh stop legends discussing legends. 432 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 2: Absolutely, And I know you were a huge Beyonce fan. 433 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:33,200 Speaker 2: We are as well. I mean, tell me what you think. 434 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:35,960 Speaker 1: Crazy and Love's set up for Beyonce as an artist 435 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:37,800 Speaker 1: and kind of what was the tone that it's set 436 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:39,960 Speaker 1: as a as a song and as a video for 437 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:42,440 Speaker 1: who Beyonce would be outside of Dustiny's Child. 438 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 4: It was our first taste of her ability to really 439 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 4: create moments, Like I think the thing that's incredible about 440 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:53,360 Speaker 4: Beyonce is that there's so much world building, And it's 441 00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:55,160 Speaker 4: so funny because when you look at Crazy and Love 442 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 4: compared to the things that she's done since, it feels 443 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:03,360 Speaker 4: so interestingtory because she's built out these like crazy musical 444 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:08,120 Speaker 4: and visual landscapes. But like the fact that even though 445 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 4: it's just dance routines and outfits and setting, that it 446 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:14,439 Speaker 4: can still be so seared into our memory that like, 447 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:18,200 Speaker 4: she was also able to do it to a song 448 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:21,359 Speaker 4: that I can't imagine sounded like anything else at the time, 449 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 4: Like you know, like we've written on the on Rolling 450 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:26,359 Speaker 4: Stone or in Rolling Stone that like richeris and the 451 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 4: producer couldn't get anybody to really believe in the beat, 452 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 4: and you know Beyonce being like, oh, this sample is dope, 453 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:35,840 Speaker 4: and yeah, I understand why we have these apprehensions, but 454 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:39,320 Speaker 4: I hear something here that's so classic, so important, and 455 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:42,720 Speaker 4: that I can shift into something modern and timely, and 456 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:44,600 Speaker 4: I think she's always done that, Like I think Beyonce. 457 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:46,480 Speaker 4: One of the most exciting things about her as an 458 00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:49,520 Speaker 4: artist too, is like she's such a historian, you know, 459 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 4: like she's she's so so schooled in pop culture, music, 460 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:58,000 Speaker 4: black icons, history, Like I just I think that the 461 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:00,520 Speaker 4: way that she's able to pull that into and create 462 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:03,000 Speaker 4: very singular pop moments is really really dope. 463 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:04,520 Speaker 5: And I think that The Crazy and Love was like 464 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:05,080 Speaker 5: the start of that. 465 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:08,359 Speaker 3: We were talking about her as a historian. Are you 466 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:13,720 Speaker 3: that being just so crucial to her artistry from the beginning, Yeah. 467 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:17,480 Speaker 4: I mean, and I think that Renaissance really sealed that 468 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:20,480 Speaker 4: in for me as like another point of respect for her, 469 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 4: because it's like you just go through the credits and 470 00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:25,639 Speaker 4: you look at what's been sampled and who she pulled 471 00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:28,239 Speaker 4: in to make sure that like she's not just like 472 00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:31,679 Speaker 4: touching the past, but like incorporating them into the present. 473 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:33,879 Speaker 4: It was so fun, Like it's so fun to like 474 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:35,960 Speaker 4: it's like a textbook kind of going through her work. 475 00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:38,359 Speaker 4: And I love that we all get to sit in 476 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:41,200 Speaker 4: like her cultural class together when she releases. 477 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:44,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, you're kind of discussing that and how she kind 478 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:47,760 Speaker 1: of carries that that legacy and also that history in 479 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:50,159 Speaker 1: every album, and I'm curious, you know, obviously again like 480 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:53,960 Speaker 1: self titled Lemonade and now Renaissance and Cowboy Carter are 481 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 1: such like very specific in how she's addressing that and 482 00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:00,280 Speaker 1: how she's making sure that it's very very clear that 483 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:02,480 Speaker 1: like this history is so ingrained into the way that 484 00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:05,439 Speaker 1: she's producing the music, where she's performing, where she's singing. 485 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:09,120 Speaker 1: And I'm curious kind of as you sort of developed 486 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:12,199 Speaker 1: in your own relationship and listening to Beyonce's music, like, 487 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:16,359 Speaker 1: what are there moments from pre Seltile, pre Lemonade that 488 00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:18,280 Speaker 1: made you kind of that you've re listened to and 489 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:21,200 Speaker 1: sort of appreciated that you know, or maybe noticed for 490 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:23,439 Speaker 1: the first time that history that she was carrying in 491 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:26,560 Speaker 1: the way that she was performing and writing and producing 492 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:27,040 Speaker 1: this music. 493 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:29,959 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that I think about Deja Vu a 494 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:32,719 Speaker 4: lot because even so, you know, I helped spearhead our 495 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:37,199 Speaker 4: Beyonce's Greatest Songs list ahead of Renaissance, and we collectively 496 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:38,200 Speaker 4: decided Deja Voo. 497 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 5: We've had that as our number one. 498 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:42,240 Speaker 4: I think that you know, it has that big horn 499 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:45,159 Speaker 4: sound just like crazy in Love, but it was so 500 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,000 Speaker 4: unique and that it wasn't sample driven, it was her 501 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:51,480 Speaker 4: taking the influences rather than just like taking a piece 502 00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:55,080 Speaker 4: of the work and creating something new for herself on 503 00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:58,920 Speaker 4: a blanker slate. And then thinking about the video too, 504 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:02,960 Speaker 4: it's like there's African dance but this Southern Gothic imagery 505 00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:06,080 Speaker 4: that ties back to, you know, her cre all upbringing. 506 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:07,760 Speaker 4: And I think that like that is one of my 507 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:11,320 Speaker 4: earliest encounters with her, showcasing that part of her. So 508 00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:13,680 Speaker 4: I think DejaVu is also like very like seminal for 509 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:15,800 Speaker 4: me and like my understanding of Beyonce. And it's also 510 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:18,639 Speaker 4: like it's a song that I would rather listen to more. 511 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 4: I don't know. I think that maybe because Crazy in 512 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,760 Speaker 4: Love like has I guess pop like lore to it. 513 00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:29,160 Speaker 4: I think that like there's something a little more refreshing 514 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:29,880 Speaker 4: about each time. 515 00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:31,400 Speaker 5: I hear Daja we probably cause we heard it less, 516 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:31,679 Speaker 5: you know. 517 00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:34,359 Speaker 4: But I think that's another moment where I was like, 518 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:36,600 Speaker 4: oh wow, she is like really putting a lot of 519 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:38,840 Speaker 4: stuff together that people aren't really touching. 520 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:40,399 Speaker 5: And that are also deeply a part of her, you know. 521 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,240 Speaker 4: And like jay Z's also on that song, and I 522 00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:45,879 Speaker 4: think that even her incorporating him into her work, is 523 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:48,360 Speaker 4: her showcasing a deep part of herself as well? 524 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:51,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, touching on what you said about her connection to 525 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:55,200 Speaker 3: global blackness, what do you see as her international sort 526 00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:59,119 Speaker 3: of impact or the impact of global blackness and her work. 527 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:02,639 Speaker 4: I think that like it's really important to portray blackness 528 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:04,639 Speaker 4: like outside of like a monolith. And I think that 529 00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 4: even you know, and I think that as we've seen 530 00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 4: her do it, you know, it hasn't been without controversy, right, 531 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 4: like Black is King, people were like, Okay, what was 532 00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:17,199 Speaker 4: the impact and contribution of African artists to it? What 533 00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:20,439 Speaker 4: is Beyonce's relationship even performing on the continent. Why hasn't 534 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:22,800 Speaker 4: she done a lot of that? Like it raises questions, 535 00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:25,879 Speaker 4: But I think that she like takes the step to 536 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:28,840 Speaker 4: be like I can do all types of music and 537 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:31,280 Speaker 4: all so much of our popular music comes back to 538 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:33,399 Speaker 4: black traditions. I think that that is the thing that 539 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:35,560 Speaker 4: she's always like putting forth in her music. 540 00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:37,240 Speaker 5: You know, we've seen her do it with dance music. 541 00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:40,199 Speaker 4: I think it showcases like just like how expansive like 542 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:41,280 Speaker 4: we are as a people. 543 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:45,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, I love thinking about how much of Beyonce's development 544 00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:47,280 Speaker 1: and not to say it's like the entirety of it, 545 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:50,399 Speaker 1: but it does feel like a kind of an undercurrent. 546 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 1: Is this kind of like middle finger to a lot 547 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:55,439 Speaker 1: of the expectations of her or where she's allowed to 548 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:58,320 Speaker 1: be thinking even just like you mentioned Deja vous and Bide, 549 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:00,760 Speaker 1: and I kind of vaguely remember a lot of the 550 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,600 Speaker 1: conversation around the New Orleans imagery post Hurri Kane Katrina 551 00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:06,399 Speaker 1: that was happening on on this album versus like, you know, 552 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,000 Speaker 1: when we sort of had a lot more kind of 553 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:11,720 Speaker 1: of that respect for her in Lemonade and Information when 554 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,280 Speaker 1: she was you know, also kind of HARKing back to 555 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:17,120 Speaker 1: that or thinking about Cowboy Carder and how much of 556 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:20,359 Speaker 1: the you know, how much of that is built off 557 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 1: of the experience she had the CMA Awards and how 558 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:27,160 Speaker 1: unwelcome Beyonce was as Beyonce in like a space, which 559 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:29,680 Speaker 1: is like crazy to think that Beyonce would enter a 560 00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:32,199 Speaker 1: room and anyone would be want to be chilly towards her. 561 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:36,119 Speaker 1: But I mean, people in country music really hated Daddy Lessons, 562 00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:38,600 Speaker 1: and people in rock music really hated don't hurt yourself 563 00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:41,800 Speaker 1: and or really hypercritical of these moments when she was 564 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:44,840 Speaker 1: experimenting with that, And I'm kind of curious, like how 565 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:48,000 Speaker 1: you sort of see her fighting back against people who 566 00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:50,000 Speaker 1: won't welcome her in or won't let her sort of 567 00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:52,320 Speaker 1: enter a space in sort of any sort of simple 568 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:54,520 Speaker 1: way or kind of let her experiment with her music 569 00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:55,000 Speaker 1: in that way. 570 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:58,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, And I think it's like because in the world 571 00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:01,280 Speaker 4: that I most immediately live in, like she's so obviously 572 00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:04,200 Speaker 4: like an icon, and it's like I kind of feel 573 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:06,919 Speaker 4: like I find out about these things when she's like 574 00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:11,000 Speaker 4: I felt pushed out or terrible or like condemned, you. 575 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:12,159 Speaker 5: Know, like like the CMAS. 576 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,159 Speaker 4: I remember watching it, and I don't even remember perceiving 577 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:17,760 Speaker 4: like I know that they had the audience shots, but 578 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:21,560 Speaker 4: I don't even remember perceiving the like CHILEI responses. All 579 00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:23,719 Speaker 4: I have in my memories of that is thinking it 580 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,399 Speaker 4: was so incredible, so incredible that she was working with 581 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:28,760 Speaker 4: the Dixie Chicks, like thinking it sounded great. 582 00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:30,840 Speaker 5: So I think that, like, I don't know, I think 583 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:32,200 Speaker 5: that a lot of the work that I think. 584 00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:35,639 Speaker 4: Is interesting, even that we do as music journalists with 585 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,600 Speaker 4: these people who are big and a lot of respects 586 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,679 Speaker 4: have everything is to kind of come back and see 587 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:45,760 Speaker 4: these like very universal struggles, whether it be race, gender 588 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:48,919 Speaker 4: that like aren't some of the most powerful people in 589 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:51,720 Speaker 4: the world like also experienced. I think I probably more 590 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:57,879 Speaker 4: actively think about her as making music for her people 591 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:00,439 Speaker 4: who she sees as her people, then as as like 592 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:04,880 Speaker 4: in response or like against critics. And it's like because 593 00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:07,439 Speaker 4: of just like the social spaces I inhabit, like it 594 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:08,880 Speaker 4: takes a little bit more work. 595 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:10,199 Speaker 5: To think about it that way, you know. 596 00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:13,080 Speaker 4: I think that also can be where some some of 597 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:16,919 Speaker 4: the like more difficult conversations about Beyonce come from, right, 598 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:17,679 Speaker 4: Like when we think. 599 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:20,560 Speaker 5: About Cowboy Carter and the flag, it's. 600 00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:23,080 Speaker 4: Like this is like, you know, it's been such a 601 00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:26,320 Speaker 4: topic online, like this is a reclamation of her black 602 00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:27,359 Speaker 4: textan identity. 603 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:29,400 Speaker 5: But also like we're situated in. 604 00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:32,040 Speaker 4: A global context and there's more to all of us 605 00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:34,680 Speaker 4: than just like the the individual places where we're from, 606 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:36,480 Speaker 4: you know. So yeah, I mean, I like, I like 607 00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:39,640 Speaker 4: thinking about Beyonce when she's like actively doing something for 608 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:41,560 Speaker 4: a people than against it. 609 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:45,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, we were talking a bit about specific songs that 610 00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:49,600 Speaker 3: she's done covers of or tributes to, or that she's 611 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:52,400 Speaker 3: interpolated into her work. What are some of your favorites 612 00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:54,440 Speaker 3: from that aspect of what she does. 613 00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:56,240 Speaker 5: We were actually just talking about this. 614 00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:59,760 Speaker 4: I love her cover of You Out to Know Violance 615 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:04,200 Speaker 4: That is my I love it so so much. I've 616 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:06,560 Speaker 4: always loved that song, like growing up listening to like 617 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:09,200 Speaker 4: alt rock radio with like my dad in like the nineties. 618 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:12,920 Speaker 4: Hearing her saying it and making it feel like it 619 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:14,680 Speaker 4: made it feel like closer to me. I don't know, 620 00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:16,560 Speaker 4: like it's just like it made it feel like it 621 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:18,960 Speaker 4: made me feel more connected to the song. So that's 622 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 4: like when I think about covers, that's something that I 623 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:21,520 Speaker 4: really really love. 624 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:24,240 Speaker 3: It's phenomenal. Yet that's one of the ones we talked about. 625 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:26,240 Speaker 1: And I have one final question for you, which is 626 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:29,800 Speaker 1: I mean, I think, especially with Act two on our minds, 627 00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:32,080 Speaker 1: I'm curious what you think Act three is gonna be. 628 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:35,200 Speaker 1: I mean, it's obviously part of a reclamation series. You know, 629 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:38,720 Speaker 1: there's a lot of and I know the prevalent theory 630 00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:40,400 Speaker 1: is a rock album, but I'm curious if you think 631 00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:43,480 Speaker 1: it's gonna be that or something different from her for 632 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:46,000 Speaker 1: Act three of this three acting musical project. 633 00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:48,840 Speaker 4: No, that's where my head is at too, especially with 634 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:51,440 Speaker 4: the I think it was a cr fashion book photo shoot. 635 00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:54,560 Speaker 4: People thought that that was maybe like an inkling towards 636 00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:57,080 Speaker 4: what she might be doing next. Like I think when 637 00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:59,440 Speaker 4: we think about like American pop music and like black 638 00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:02,040 Speaker 4: contribution it and the way they either have been like 639 00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:04,240 Speaker 4: erased or like uplifted like rock and roll, I think 640 00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:06,320 Speaker 4: is at like the center. And so that's what I'm 641 00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:08,200 Speaker 4: thinking will be next. But I would love to be surprised. 642 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:09,800 Speaker 4: I mean, and I'm also trying to think, like what 643 00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,160 Speaker 4: hasn't she done? You know, So that's kind of where 644 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:13,920 Speaker 4: my head is at too. 645 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:17,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe we'll get Alanis in Kings of Leon. 646 00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:18,040 Speaker 2: On the album. 647 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:20,080 Speaker 3: That would be phenomenal. 648 00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:23,040 Speaker 2: Oh, thank you so much, Marcopher. I really appreciate it. 649 00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:23,960 Speaker 3: Thank you so much. 650 00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:27,560 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for listening to Rolling Stone's five hundred 651 00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,080 Speaker 1: Greatest Songs. This podcast is brought to you by Rolling 652 00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:33,680 Speaker 1: Stone and iHeartMedia Britten. Hosted by Me Britney Spanos and 653 00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:37,960 Speaker 1: Rob Sheffield. Executive produced by Gus Winner, Jason Fine, Alex Dale, 654 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:40,880 Speaker 1: and Christian Horde, and produced by Jesse Cannon with music 655 00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:42,640 Speaker 1: supervision by Eric Zeiler. 656 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:44,120 Speaker 2: Thanks so much for listening