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Speaker 1: The disappearance of a beautiful young mom of twins, Melissa

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Speaker 1: Susa remains a mystery, but then her body found in

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Speaker 1: a Waterville home, her body wrapped in a tart hidden

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Speaker 1: in a basement. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.

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Speaker 1: We want justice. What happened to this mom? Melissa Susa

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Speaker 1: at the prime of her life? Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 1: Twenty nine year old Melissa Susa of Waterville is missing.

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Speaker 1: Melissa's Twitter has two twins on a school bus in

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Speaker 1: front of her home, and that's the last time she

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Speaker 1: was seen publicly. That was Tuesday morning. Around midnight. Waterville

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Speaker 1: police arrested her boyfriend, Nicholas Lovejoy and charged him with

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Speaker 1: having a loaded rifle in his car and endangering the

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Speaker 1: welfare of a child. Police say he left his and

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Speaker 1: Seusa's twin eight year old girls home alone. That home

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Speaker 1: is where mainstay police evidence technicians have been searching. Is

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Speaker 1: not like her to disappear and this is completely out

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Speaker 1: of the ordinary. Wednesday afternoon, police searched this property on

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Speaker 1: Taylor Road in nearby Winslow, where neighbors say Lovejoy kept

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Speaker 1: a trailer. Police left a short time later. Megan Legacy

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Speaker 1: is SUS's friend and co worker. She's a good person,

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Speaker 1: she cares about her kids. She just wants to be happy,

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Speaker 1: and I don't think she got the chance to do that.

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Speaker 1: Legacy says Susa was frightened of love joy just a

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Speaker 1: lot of guns. I mean he has a lot of

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Speaker 1: guns he has There's a lot of easy way to

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Speaker 1: do it. I mean he could easily do it and

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Speaker 1: not think twice. Leaving to see fearing the worst has

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Speaker 1: happened to her friend. I feel like she would have

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Speaker 1: gontacted someone. What happened to Melissa Suza a young mother

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Speaker 1: just twenty nine years old, the mother of eight year

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Speaker 1: old little girl twins. I Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories,

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Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. With me an all

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Speaker 1: star panel. Ashley Wilcot judge, trial lawyer anchor at Court TV.

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Speaker 1: You can find her at Ashley Wilcot dot com. Stephen Lampley, detective,

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Speaker 1: author of Outside Your Door on Amazon, renowned psychoanalyst out

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Speaker 1: of Beverly Hills, doctor Bethany Marshall, South Carolina medical examiner,

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Speaker 1: author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide, doctor Michelle Dupree and

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Speaker 1: joining Me right Now investigative reporter with Radar Online dot Com.

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Speaker 1: Alexis Terres Chuck. Alexis, first, thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 1: What can you tell me about how it was first

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Speaker 1: noted that this twenty nine year old mother of two

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Speaker 1: was missing. Her friend made a welfare check. She called

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Speaker 1: the police and said, we have not heard from her

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Speaker 1: all day long. She has not been on Facebook, and

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Speaker 1: we are very, very worried about her. And it's terrifying

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Speaker 1: to think that a mother puts her two children on

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Speaker 1: the school bus eight o'clock in the morning. The girls

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Speaker 1: leave the house, they go ride in the bus, they

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Speaker 1: come home nothing, no mommy, and the friend is the

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Speaker 1: one that has to sound the alert. Well, here's the thing.

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Speaker 1: Doesn't she work at Duncan Donuts with her friend. They

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Speaker 1: have to get up really early hours and work really

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Speaker 1: late hours. So you know, if you don't show up

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Speaker 1: at six o'clock in the morning, seven o'clock, eight o'clock,

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Speaker 1: people may chalk it off to oh, they overslept. So

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Speaker 1: what tipped her off, Alexis that something was wrong. Well,

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Speaker 1: she knows this woman, she knows her, She knows Melissa,

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Speaker 1: she knows how unhappy she has been in her relationship

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Speaker 1: and she knows personally that she has been threatened by

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Speaker 1: her boyfriend. By him, she is afraid for her life.

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Speaker 1: She has said heatedly, he has so many guns. I'm

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Speaker 1: so afraid what he's going to do to me. So

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Speaker 1: she knew the family history. Here we know to Ashley Wilcott,

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Speaker 1: the boyfriend Nicholas Lovejoy was arrested on a guns charge.

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Speaker 1: How often do you see the target of the bigger investigation,

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Speaker 1: such as kidnapping, aggravated assault, or murder, you see the

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Speaker 1: target or the person of interest arrested on minor charges.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I always think about Timothy McVeigh. Remember they

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Speaker 1: who bombed the Oklahoma City Building, the Federal building, the

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Speaker 1: Murra Building, and killed so many Americans, including children. They

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Speaker 1: pulled him over for a tail light infraction. No idea

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Speaker 1: that this is the Okay City bomber, right, Nancy. So

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Speaker 1: statistically it's true, often these types of person of interest

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Speaker 1: do have some type of criminal history, even if it's minor.

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Speaker 1: Every once in a while we'll see someone who commits

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Speaker 1: a MA your horrible crime who has no history. But

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Speaker 1: generally they've got something, They've been stopped for something. It's

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Speaker 1: interesting to Stephen Lampley, former detect given author of Outside

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Speaker 1: Your Door on Amazon. How the boyfriend is arrested on

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Speaker 1: a weapons charge. And I'm all about, you know, the

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Speaker 1: Bill of Rights and all your personal freedoms, but it

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Speaker 1: always creeps me out when someone has a treasure trove

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Speaker 1: an arsenal of weapons. That just freaks me out. And

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Speaker 1: also he was arrested on a gun charge. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you've got Melissa Susa missing, She's never left her children before,

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Speaker 1: and they get him on a gun charge. Is that

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Speaker 1: a pretext? Well, it's my understanding of what I know

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Speaker 1: of this case that they went to his house, he

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Speaker 1: would not let them in, and so they backed out

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Speaker 1: and then deserved him for a period of time and

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Speaker 1: waiting for him to leave, and then initiated the traffic stuff.

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Speaker 1: We used to do this all the time. We would

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Speaker 1: sit back and wait, and we would we would find

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Speaker 1: probable cause to stop the vehicle. And it's you can

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Speaker 1: usually find probable cause because somebody is going to do something,

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Speaker 1: and in this case, they apparently had probable cause, stopped him,

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Speaker 1: found the founded loaded rifle, and then discover that he

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Speaker 1: had left the two eight year old children at home,

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Speaker 1: and then proceeded to get to get the search warrant

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Speaker 1: and bam. It's just that easy. And when you say

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Speaker 1: we find probable cause, you know a defensive tree would

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Speaker 1: have a field day with that. The reality is, hey,

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Speaker 1: you don't have to fabricate it. They give you probable

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Speaker 1: cause to arrest. I mean, I've got a PC right now.

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Speaker 1: I've had three mothers, three mothers pull me over in

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Speaker 1: traffic and the pick up a job offline to tell

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Speaker 1: me my tail lights out on one whole side. I

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Speaker 1: know this. I've been riding around in that busted mitivan

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Speaker 1: and I know it, and I haven't had time to

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Speaker 1: go get it fixed. That's PC right there. If Anycott

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Speaker 1: wanted to pull me over, well there's PC for it

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Speaker 1: right there. So what I'm saying, as she Wilcott judge

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Speaker 1: and trial lawyer, is that it's not like the cops

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Speaker 1: have to fabricate something. All they have to do is

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Speaker 1: watch you for about an hour. They'll catch you doing

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Speaker 1: something wrong. You will definitely not stop it and stop sign,

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Speaker 1: not put on your blink or have a busted tail light.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's just a matter of time. It's just

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Speaker 1: whether they want you or not. Well, that's true, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: but it's also what the law provides for. So people

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Speaker 1: get frustrated by that, right, like defense attorneys do say, oh,

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Speaker 1: there was no reason to stop. Guess what. I'm not frustrated.

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Speaker 1: I don't have a problem with it. I don't either,

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Speaker 1: but some defense attorneys absolutely do. But the fact of

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Speaker 1: the matter is that's what the law provides for probable cause,

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Speaker 1: any reason at all, any violation anything they see, that's

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Speaker 1: any violation of any traffic law, of any other type

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Speaker 1: of crime. Yeah, they have the authority too. I will

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Speaker 1: never forget to doctor Bethany Marshall joining me psychoanalyst out

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Speaker 1: of la I had been. I was working a murder

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Speaker 1: case and the best friend of the murdered victim, her

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Speaker 1: husband did it. By the way, he was a millionaire,

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Speaker 1: and he set it up to make it look like

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Speaker 1: a house fire. Then why was she covered in bruises? Wow?

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Speaker 1: You know how did that happen? Anyway? I was out

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Speaker 1: trying to find her best friend, much as in this case.

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Speaker 1: Her best friend in the case that I was prosecuting

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Speaker 1: was a fellow piano teacher, and that piano teacher got

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Speaker 1: into drinking wine and playing the piano. We had a

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Speaker 1: good time. I stayed at that lady's house till midnight.

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Speaker 1: I did not drink, of course, as she taught to

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Speaker 1: me about the victim, Patricia, and about how long they

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Speaker 1: had known each other, and about her abusive marriage. A

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Speaker 1: ton of information. Okay, So I was driving back it

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Speaker 1: was now like twelve fifteen. I get pulled over. I

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Speaker 1: get pulled over. As I roll the winden, I said,

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Speaker 1: why are you pulling me over? And he said, you

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Speaker 1: cross the yellow line. I'm like, Noah, didn't. But fine,

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Speaker 1: you guys, I guess I got to give you a breathalyzer.

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Speaker 1: So are you kidding me? He said, I can't treat

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Speaker 1: you any differently than anybody else. I'm like, fine, do

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Speaker 1: a breathalyzer. So I did it, and within about five

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Speaker 1: minutes I was on my way home. What I'm saying

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Speaker 1: is it can be crossing the yellow line, it can

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Speaker 1: be anything. Why does that make people so angry? I mean,

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Speaker 1: we walk hops out there to protect us, but then

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Speaker 1: when they pull us over, people don't like it so much. Well,

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Speaker 1: hopefully it's a part of our discussion on this radio show.

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Speaker 1: The listeners can learn that when police pull people over,

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Speaker 1: for seemingly minor infractions. Often there's a whole world of

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Speaker 1: misery underneath. It's sometimes that's the canary in the coal mine,

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Speaker 1: the very small tell I'll tell you what's underneath this, Nancy.

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Speaker 1: Then I he was pulled over. There are two twin

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Speaker 1: eight year olds at home without their mother and father.

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Speaker 1: And you know, in the legal system, children infants are

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Speaker 1: vastly underrepresented because they cannot speak for themselves. And in

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Speaker 1: this case, we're talking about him getting pulled over on

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Speaker 1: a gun violation. We're talking about the mom missing. Let's

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Speaker 1: make a part of our story that there are two

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Speaker 1: little girls at home. I mean you you have twins.

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Speaker 1: How old are they now? Twelve? Thirteen? Can you imagine

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Speaker 1: them being at home? White white, white white by Bethany?

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Speaker 1: Did you just say fourteen? No, twelve or thirteen? How

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Speaker 1: old are they now? Bethany? You know what I'm putting

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Speaker 1: you on, provice and go to the corner for not

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Speaker 1: knowing that twins have just turned twelve years old. Shame, shame,

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Speaker 1: shames crime stories with Nancy Grace. This is the house

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Speaker 1: where that body was found and where twenty nine year

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Speaker 1: old Melissa Susa was lasting. Putting her two eight year

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Speaker 1: old twins on the school bus Tuesday morning. Now, forty

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Speaker 1: eight hours later, police are still on sen and friends

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Speaker 1: are fearing the worst. This morning, a mom missing. I

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Speaker 1: feel like she would have contacted someone. Friends of Melissa

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Speaker 1: Susa terrified. If she knew all of this was going on,

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Speaker 1: she would have said something. As police combed through her

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Speaker 1: Waterville home throughout the night looking for clues, a body

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Speaker 1: was discovered in the basement. This is not like her

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Speaker 1: to disappear, and this is completely out of the ordinary.

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Speaker 1: Seus's boyfriend, Nicholas Lovejoy has been arrested, police saying they

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Speaker 1: stopped him around midnight Tuesday. Right now, they've charged him

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Speaker 1: for having a loaded gun in the car and endangering

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Speaker 1: his children leaving them home alone. He has a lot

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Speaker 1: of there's a lot of easy way to do it.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he could easily do it and not think twice.

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Speaker 1: Friends say they were scared of Lovejoy. They were scared

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Speaker 1: their worst nightmare might come true. She's a good person,

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Speaker 1: she cares about her kids. She just wants to be happy,

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Speaker 1: and I don't think she got the chance to do

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Speaker 1: that again. No one has been charged. Investigators are expecting

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Speaker 1: to be back on seeing this morning in an autopsy

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Speaker 1: is likely to be conducted later today. That from our

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Speaker 1: friends at New Center, Maine. That was Zach Blanchard speaking,

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Speaker 1: what is he doing out riding around with a car

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Speaker 1: full of guns at midnight and his two eight year

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Speaker 1: old children, two little girls home alone? You don't write

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Speaker 1: he should be pulled over, Alexis terres Chuck joining me.

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Speaker 1: Alexis Terreschuk, investigative reporter with Radar Online dot Com. Alexis.

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Speaker 1: So they pull him over, but now a body has

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Speaker 1: been found in the basement. To pick it up where

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Speaker 1: you left off. So the police had been observing him

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Speaker 1: in the house. They had noticed him going They were

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Speaker 1: looking through the windows. They were just out on the

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Speaker 1: street on a public street and not doing anything wrong,

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Speaker 1: and they were watching him go in and out of

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Speaker 1: the kitchen different places. So they see him get in

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Speaker 1: the car and they pull him over. There's a rifle.

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Speaker 1: They say to him, you know what is going on?

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Speaker 1: He says nothing at all. They then end up talking

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Speaker 1: with the little children, the little twin daughters, and they

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Speaker 1: say that there had been a fight between mommy and daddy.

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Speaker 1: They say that she had confessed that she had loved

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Speaker 1: someone else, so police now are suspicious that he killed

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Speaker 1: her in a rage of a fit of jealousy, and

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Speaker 1: they go in the home, they dig around. The thing

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Speaker 1: that's very interesting to me is they don't find her

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Speaker 1: right away. They don't search in the basement of the

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Speaker 1: Wait wait, wait, wait, wait wait. You know, Alexis strez Chuck.

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Speaker 1: You and I've covered a lot of stories together, and

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Speaker 1: I'm almost always on the side of the police. They're

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Speaker 1: just humans trying to do a good job. And most

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Speaker 1: often they do do a good job, a great job,

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Speaker 1: as a matter of fact. But come on, not looking

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Speaker 1: in the basement. Hello, That's what I thought too. It

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Speaker 1: seemed a little strange. I don't think that maybe it's

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Speaker 1: a hidden basement. That's the only thing that I can think,

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Speaker 1: because I agree with you. Usually the police are very through.

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Speaker 1: They check everything something you wouldn't even think of though.

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Speaker 1: Even the way they enter a room during an investigation,

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Speaker 1: they would have a couple people with them, they would

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Speaker 1: cover the door, they would make sure that there was

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Speaker 1: nobody in there to hurt them. So this was very strange.

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Speaker 1: It took quite a few hours for them to locate,

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Speaker 1: but almost an entire day in fact, to locate her

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Speaker 1: body in the basement. Okay, I don't understand that. Where

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Speaker 1: was it in the basement? How is it that hard

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Speaker 1: to find? Well, she was wrapped up in a tarp

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Speaker 1: in a rug actually, and hidden in the base. Wait

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Speaker 1: a minute, that's the first thing I would look at.

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Speaker 1: Stephen Lampley. You see a rug rolled up? Of course

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Speaker 1: you're going to look in there. Yes, that's you. Again,

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Speaker 1: I wasn't there, and I don't want to try to

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Speaker 1: second get but based on this ill you know, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I wonder why why did they not look in that rug?

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Speaker 1: It's like it's like a movie on television. Why would

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Speaker 1: you not look at a world up rug in a basement?

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Speaker 1: But the reality is they did find her wrapped in

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Speaker 1: a rug. And and remember, isn't it true as she

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Speaker 1: will caught Judge and trial lawyer, a jury can look

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Speaker 1: at a defendant behavior before, during, and after the event

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Speaker 1: the incident, including if you shot someone in self defense

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Speaker 1: or does she say you claimed somebody died of a

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Speaker 1: natural cause like in Toddmom Casey Anthony who claimed her

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Speaker 1: two year old Kelly drowned in the pool and then

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Speaker 1: her body was quote hidden. If this was an accident

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Speaker 1: or it was self defense, Why not call police? Why

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Speaker 1: wrap her up in a carpet and stasher in the basement. Exactly.

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Speaker 1: You are allowed to present that evidence to the jury

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Speaker 1: for the jury to make a determination, and the other

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Speaker 1: piece that it goes to. Although as you well know,

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Speaker 1: prosecutors don't have to prove motive, it makes a significant

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Speaker 1: difference to have motive, and so those pieces can also

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Speaker 1: be introduced to a jury for motive as well as

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Speaker 1: date of mark. Take a listen to our friend Jackie

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Speaker 1: Mundree at News Center Main in the news tonight. We

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Speaker 1: expect to hear within this half hour if the body

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Speaker 1: found yesterday in Waterville is Melissa Susa. She's the young

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Speaker 1: mom who was last seen putting her twin girls on

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Speaker 1: the school bus Tuesday morning. The body was found in

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Speaker 1: her home. The body has been at the Medical Examiner's

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Speaker 1: office in Augusta all day today. They're confirming the identity

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Speaker 1: and they're looking for a cause of death. He said hermaans.

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Speaker 1: Jackie Mundury has been following this story and she joins

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Speaker 1: US Now Live from Waterville with an update. Hijackie, Good evening,

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Speaker 1: Sam and Lee. That body, as you said, has not

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Speaker 1: yet been identified, but it was found at the home

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Speaker 1: behind me, just behind the main State police truck here

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Speaker 1: in Waterville. Friends and family fear that the body found

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Speaker 1: in Melissa Susa's home is in fact her as since,

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Speaker 1: as you said, she hasn't been seen Tuesday morning, friends

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Speaker 1: are posting photos and sharing memories on social media and

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Speaker 1: telling me that she is pure, gentle and sweet. Friends

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Speaker 1: of Susa also say that her relationship with Nicholas Lovejoy

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Speaker 1: is not healthy. They say he often shows up at

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Speaker 1: her work at Duncan Donuts to make sure she's actually

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Speaker 1: there when she tells him she says she is. They

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Speaker 1: also say Susa has been trying to leave him, but

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Speaker 1: all of that aside, they want to just tell everyone

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Speaker 1: how wonderful Susa is. We love Melissa, We love her

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Speaker 1: so much, And even if she was standing here with me,

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Speaker 1: I would always say that she was, like I said, trustworthy,

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Speaker 1: honest and pure. And I would say that like I said,

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Speaker 1: if she was standing in front of me, And I'll

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Speaker 1: say it now and I'll say it years from now,

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Speaker 1: jointing me right now. Doctor Michelle Dupre, South Carolina medical Examiner,

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Speaker 1: author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide, Doctor dupree. We are

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Speaker 1: learning that she was shot twice in the stumma. How

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Speaker 1: hard is it to figure that out in autopsy? What

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Speaker 1: are what were they waiting on Nancy? They probably weren't

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Speaker 1: waiting on determining that she was shot, but they're probably

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Speaker 1: waiting on other things. Bullets are going to destroy a

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Speaker 1: lot of the internal organs, so they're gonna want to

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Speaker 1: make sure that they can trace the pathways of each

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Speaker 1: of those bullets. They're gonna want to describe those injuries

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Speaker 1: and the wounds. They're also going to be looking at toxicology,

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Speaker 1: and they're going to be looking at other tests that

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Speaker 1: they may need to run for the autopxy before they

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Speaker 1: give results. Explain that, dodgor Gupree. All of us in

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Speaker 1: the criminal law world know what you mean, or most

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Speaker 1: of us do, But explain when you say they've got

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Speaker 1: to run toxicology, who's they and what do you mean

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Speaker 1: run toxicology? Well, the medical examiner would take samples of

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Speaker 1: blood and bodily fluids to run toxicology tests, which are

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Speaker 1: substances that may be in the body, such as drugs,

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Speaker 1: whether they're street drugs or prescription drugs, to determine if

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Speaker 1: there were drugs in the body. There may be other

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Speaker 1: tests that they may run. They may run gunshot residue

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Speaker 1: tests to see if the fire of the bullets were

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Speaker 1: close range or not. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The

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Speaker 1: body found inside this home in Waterville has been identified

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Speaker 1: as twenty nine year old Melissa Susa. Susa was last

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Speaker 1: seen on Tuesday morning, when she was putting her twenty

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Speaker 1: eight year old daughters on the bus. Her longtime boyfriend,

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Speaker 1: Nicholas Lovejoy, has been charged with her murder. Susa's friends

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Speaker 1: feared this all along, saying that Lovejoy was controlling and

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Speaker 1: she wanted to leave him but couldn't because of their daughters.

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Speaker 1: One friend saw Lovejoy with their daughters at a birthday

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Speaker 1: party on Tuesday evening. Between the time Susa went missing

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Speaker 1: and the time he was arrested for a year old's

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Speaker 1: home alone. He didn't make eye contact. Like I said,

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Speaker 1: I've handled conversations and before, and it was just different.

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Speaker 1: It was just unsettling, and like I said, at the time,

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Speaker 1: I didn't think anything of it. But as time went on,

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Speaker 1: now I replayed the conversation and it just gets weirder

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Speaker 1: and weirder to me every time I think about it,

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Speaker 1: love Joys being held at the County Back County Jail.

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Speaker 1: You're hearing the victim, twenty nine year old Melissa Susa,

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Speaker 1: the mother of two eight year old twin girls, her

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Speaker 1: friend Jordan Tywer, speaking to Jackie Moundree at News Center Maine.

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Speaker 1: Over and over we hear it to doctor Bethany Marshall,

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Speaker 1: psycho Alice joining me out of la Doctor Bethany. The

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Speaker 1: friends describing his behavior toward her. Another friend said, quote,

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Speaker 1: she told us his big thing as quote tick tak,

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Speaker 1: your time's coming. I have got two choices. It's kill

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Speaker 1: you or kill you, and that that was his way

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Speaker 1: of controlling her. Now her Melissa Susa's boss and friend,

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Speaker 1: says that love Joy the boyfriend threatened her daily, that

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Speaker 1: he had held guns to her head, sent threatening text

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Speaker 1: to her. Now this is the mother. These are his

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Speaker 1: two little girls. And he's convinced she's got a boyfriend.

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Speaker 1: But he drives by and see she's there at work

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Speaker 1: every single day where she says she's going to be well.

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Speaker 1: Nancy's threats and intimidation are a part of every domestic

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Speaker 1: violent situation. Financial abuse, often withholding money preventing a partner

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Speaker 1: from going to work, jealousy towards pets, you know, animals, friends,

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Speaker 1: threatening to hit you, or punching the wall, making you

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Speaker 1: feel guilty for wanting time. Apart the fact that he

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Speaker 1: kept showing up at work, I cannot tell you how

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Speaker 1: often I hear this in my practice from women who

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Speaker 1: are in disturbed or abusive relationships. The man always shows

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Speaker 1: up at work, and he's always convinced that he's going

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Speaker 1: to find her with another man. This woman worked at

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Speaker 1: dunkin Donuts. She's not hanging out with another man there.

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Speaker 1: I also want to say three point three million children

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Speaker 1: every year witness the abuse of either their mother or

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Speaker 1: a female caretaker at the hands of their father. So

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Speaker 1: if these little girls were saying, you know something like

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Speaker 1: you know, mommy told daddy she was in love with

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Speaker 1: somebody else, or mommy wanted to go to work, and

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Speaker 1: then I wouldn't be surprised if they witnessed him abusing her.

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Speaker 1: So she was not the only victim. These two little

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Speaker 1: girls were victims too. Guys, I want you to take

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00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:35,399
Speaker 1: a listen to one of the most bizarre things about

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Speaker 1: this case. Now, first of all, the body is in

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Speaker 1: the basement, but they don't, the police don't see it

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Speaker 1: at first. It takes a couple of days to figure

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Speaker 1: out the bodies in the basement. Number one co workers

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00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:49,920
Speaker 1: have to call and report her missing. Then we learn

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Speaker 1: of threat after threat after threat. How many times do

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00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:58,920
Speaker 1: you know of a woman murdered in divesting violence scenarios?

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00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:03,440
Speaker 1: When there were there was one red flag after the next,

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Speaker 1: after the next, after the next. I want to give

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00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:12,520
Speaker 1: you a toll free domestic abuse hotline eight seven seven

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Speaker 1: eight nine zero seven seven eight eight eight seven seven

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00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:23,120
Speaker 1: eight nine zero seven seven eight eight. Now, just when

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00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:26,240
Speaker 1: you think you've heard it all, surprise, take a listen.

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Speaker 1: A lot of new information coming out of that police

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Speaker 1: aff of David this afternoon, mainly a confession and then

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Speaker 1: a claim of self defense. Twenty eight year old Nicholas

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Speaker 1: Lovejoy telling police that he shot Melissa Susa last Tuesday

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Speaker 1: after their twin eight year old daughters went off to school.

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00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:44,800
Speaker 1: Lovejoy saying the two got into a fight. Susa pushed

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Speaker 1: him down a flight of stairs. She tried to shoot him,

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Speaker 1: but the gun didn't go off. He told police that

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00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:52,399
Speaker 1: he grabbed a handgun of his own and shot Susa

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Speaker 1: twice in the stomach. He rolled her body up in

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Speaker 1: a tarp and dragged to the basement. Family and friends

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00:23:57,480 --> 00:23:59,840
Speaker 1: of the victim said today that Susa was planning to

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Speaker 1: leave love Joy and take the twin girls with her.

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00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:06,199
Speaker 1: This after repeated death threats. Now the girls are in

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Speaker 1: the custody of the DHS. Susa's mother wants custody of

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Speaker 1: her granddaughters. The family is obviously devastated, upset, confused. It's

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Speaker 1: very difficult on them. DHHS has to look into the

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Speaker 1: best place, the most suitable placement for the children, and

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00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:25,440
Speaker 1: that's what's going on at the moment, So ask for

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00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:27,639
Speaker 1: love Joy. He's being held here at the Kennebec County

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Speaker 1: Jail in Augusta without bail. By the way, a grand

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00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,720
Speaker 1: jury will likely indict him over the next thirty days

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Speaker 1: and he'll be back in this same courtroom to face

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Speaker 1: a Raymond. Then we were hearing our friends at WMTWABC.

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Speaker 1: That was Jim Keithley. Now a defense emerges. Love Joy says, yes,

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Speaker 1: I shot her twice in the stomach, rolled her up

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Speaker 1: in the carpet and put her body in the base

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Speaker 1: of it. But it was all in self defense, Okay.

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Speaker 1: He says that this tiny little woman Melissa Sousa, shoved

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00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 1: him down the stairs, tried to shoot him, but the

426
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:08,679
Speaker 1: gun failed, Love Joy. Then it shot Susie twice in

427
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:13,600
Speaker 1: the stomach. All right, that scenario doesn't even make sense.

428
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 1: To Stephen Lampley, detective and author of Outside Your Door,

429
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:19,800
Speaker 1: that scenario doesn't make sense unless they were both holding

430
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:22,000
Speaker 1: a gun at the same time, like a shootout and

431
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:25,640
Speaker 1: the wild Wild West in their apartment on the stairs

432
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:28,560
Speaker 1: leading down to the basement with the twin girls at home.

433
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:31,639
Speaker 1: Doesn't add up to me. You're right, man, See it

434
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,560
Speaker 1: doesn't to me either. One of the big questions I

435
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:38,000
Speaker 1: have is if this is how it transpired. She took

436
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:41,280
Speaker 1: the rifle, attempted to shoot him, it didn't fire. Then

437
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:45,200
Speaker 1: he according to what I read, he went and retrieved

438
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 1: the gun and then came back. Why didn't he leave.

439
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,000
Speaker 1: I don't buy the story that he was self he

440
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:54,680
Speaker 1: was in a self defense mode. I don't buy that

441
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:57,160
Speaker 1: if he was in if he was truly in self

442
00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:00,119
Speaker 1: defense mode, why did he hide the box too? She

443
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:03,119
Speaker 1: will caught judge and trial lawyer. If you have time

444
00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:06,399
Speaker 1: to leave and go get a gun and turn around

445
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:11,080
Speaker 1: and come back and fire, it's no longer self defense,

446
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,320
Speaker 1: explain exactly what I was gonna say. So that's the

447
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 1: problem with his story that he's come up with. Self

448
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 1: defense means at the time, you are in fear of

449
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:23,679
Speaker 1: your life and you respond with force to react to

450
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:27,159
Speaker 1: that to protect yourself. He could, obviously in that amount

451
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:28,960
Speaker 1: of time, he could have left the home, he could

452
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,239
Speaker 1: have run away, he could have gone and called ninety one.

453
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:35,960
Speaker 1: All of those things mean it wasn't self defense. Another issue,

454
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 1: I'm curious was there any indication to Alexis tereshot writer

455
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:45,600
Speaker 1: online dot com that he was acting in self defense?

456
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:49,680
Speaker 1: Was another weapon found? Did she have any gunshot residue

457
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:52,280
Speaker 1: on her hands? What do we know about his claim

458
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 1: of self defense? His story is that the gun did

459
00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:58,719
Speaker 1: not go off right, I think it wasn't loaded, so

460
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:02,240
Speaker 1: she would not have gunpowder residue on her hands. But

461
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:07,240
Speaker 1: there has He had multiple weapons in the house, so

462
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:10,160
Speaker 1: he is saying that he just grabbed another one, which

463
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:12,160
Speaker 1: seems a little strange that she would have grabbed out

464
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:14,639
Speaker 1: of all the weapons in the house, the one weapon

465
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:16,639
Speaker 1: that doesn't go off or that doesn't have bullets in it.

466
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 1: So tell me about his client a self defense, What

467
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:21,160
Speaker 1: do you make of it, Alexis, I find it hard

468
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 1: to believe. I think it's very hard to believe. And

469
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:25,919
Speaker 1: I think that he came up with this after he

470
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 1: killed her. They've gotten a big fight and he killed

471
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:30,879
Speaker 1: her because then I believe he told the girls that

472
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:32,960
Speaker 1: mommy said she had a new boyfriend and she was leaving,

473
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:35,679
Speaker 1: probably to tell them why mommy wasn't home, and that

474
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 1: just plants the seeds in their minds so that when

475
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 1: they talked to the police because their mom is missing,

476
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 1: they're gonna say, oh, no, Mommy's not here. She went

477
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 1: off with her new boyfriend. So he definitely had a

478
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 1: plan to get rid of her, and this was part

479
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:49,320
Speaker 1: of it. And so with by hiding her body and

480
00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:52,159
Speaker 1: then driving away with the rifle, it's all part of

481
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:54,160
Speaker 1: his plan to get rid of her. I don't think

482
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:58,199
Speaker 1: that this was self defense to you, doctor Bethany Marshall.

483
00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:00,440
Speaker 1: It's like, oh, Alice joining me out of la Why

484
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 1: do you believe this is not self defense? Well, as

485
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:07,560
Speaker 1: the whole panel is saying, if he really felt his

486
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:10,919
Speaker 1: life was at risk and he had the time to

487
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,679
Speaker 1: go get a gun and load it and come back,

488
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:16,960
Speaker 1: then obviously he wanted to kill her. You know, Nancy,

489
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:19,560
Speaker 1: you know what this reminds me of Jodi Arius. Do

490
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:22,919
Speaker 1: you remember during the trial she kept saying that she

491
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:26,120
Speaker 1: was in the closet and that he lunched at her,

492
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:29,280
Speaker 1: and then she went to get a gun to save herself. Well,

493
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:32,920
Speaker 1: then she follows him into the shower, severs his neck,

494
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:37,040
Speaker 1: plunges a knife into him, tries to clean it up

495
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:40,600
Speaker 1: by throwclothing in the washing machine, and then she claims

496
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 1: at self defense. I think we just hear this over

497
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 1: and over again. Compounded with the fact that criminals are

498
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 1: so stupid, they are so stupid they actually believe their

499
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:53,720
Speaker 1: own lies. The fact that he thought this was credible

500
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 1: is just remarkable to me. And have you seen pictures

501
00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 1: of him? Do you know what he looks like. It's

502
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 1: like he's a method right. He definitely looks like there's

503
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 1: something not quite right going on inside his head. Another

504
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:11,520
Speaker 1: issue that indicates to me it was not self defense

505
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 1: is that he lied repeatedly. First, he told investigators he

506
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 1: had not seen Susu since Tuesday morning. When they came

507
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,720
Speaker 1: to do a welfare check, he would not allow them in.

508
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:25,240
Speaker 1: He is the one that claimed she had a boyfriend

509
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 1: as she was leaving and he was angry about it.

510
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:31,920
Speaker 1: Then there's the behavior of hiding her body in a rug.

511
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:53,600
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, there was a longtime girlfriend,

512
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 1: Melissa Suso, was first reported missing. She was last seen

513
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 1: dropping her twin daughters of at the bus stop. Now

514
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 1: there was a body taken out of the apartment building

515
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:08,600
Speaker 1: where Susa and Nicholas Lovejoy lived in Waterville. Late yesterday,

516
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 1: Police confirmed that was her body and charged her longtime

517
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:15,239
Speaker 1: boyfriend with murder. Lovejoy had since been in jail had

518
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:17,880
Speaker 1: been in jailson's Tuesday night. Police arrested him then for

519
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 1: having a loaded gun and for leaving his daughters alone

520
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 1: at home. Friends told us love Joy and Susa's relationship

521
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:26,760
Speaker 1: was not healthy, saying he was controlling and that she

522
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 1: wanted to leave him but couldn't because of their daughters.

523
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 1: One woman says she saw Lovejoy at a birthday party

524
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:35,440
Speaker 1: with his daughters on Tuesday night. Between the times Suso

525
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 1: went missing and when he was arrested, he didn't make

526
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 1: eye contact. He like I said, I've handled conversations and

527
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 1: before and it was just different. It was just unsettling,

528
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 1: and like I said at the time, I didn't think

529
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 1: anything of it, but as time went on. Now I

530
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 1: replayed the conversation and it just gets weirder and weirder

531
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:52,280
Speaker 1: to me every time I think about it. We're hearing

532
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:57,760
Speaker 1: our friends Sean Stackhouse at News Center Maine reporting when

533
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 1: coworkers call police to do welfare check, they find nothing.

534
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:05,200
Speaker 1: Days later they find her body rolled up in a

535
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 1: rug in the basement. Now, the father of her children,

536
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 1: her boyfriend, her live in claiming he killed her, and

537
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:18,200
Speaker 1: self defense straight out to doctor Michelle du Pre, South

538
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:22,240
Speaker 1: Carolina medical examiner and author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide,

539
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 1: Doctor du Pre, the state has charged him with murder.

540
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 1: Why is it that you believe they're not buying the

541
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:33,200
Speaker 1: theory of self defense? Well, Nancy, Again, as everybody else

542
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 1: has stated, self defense is a moment in time. It's

543
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,320
Speaker 1: immediately taking action when you are in fear of your

544
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 1: life or someone else's, And the evidences doesn't show that.

545
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:46,040
Speaker 1: When we look at the totality of circumstances and look

546
00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 1: at the actions that were taken, it does not equate

547
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:51,600
Speaker 1: to self defense. What can you tell from the actual

548
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:54,280
Speaker 1: bullet wounds. From the actual bullet wounds, we can tell

549
00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 1: the trajectory. We can also tell approximately how close or

550
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:02,440
Speaker 1: how far that person was when they were shot. And

551
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 1: given that, if the person has enough time and enough

552
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 1: distance that they can back up or leave, then they

553
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 1: can do that. Alox's terrestre writer online dot com tell

554
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 1: me about the threats he made against her leading up

555
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:16,960
Speaker 1: to the murder. Their relationship has been so terrible. But

556
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 1: this is what is so scary about this. This woman

557
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 1: has told everybody, her family, her friends, her co workers,

558
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 1: how afraid she was for him, how many guns he had,

559
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 1: and she had no way to get out. She worked

560
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:29,880
Speaker 1: at Duncan done as probably did not make a lot

561
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:32,720
Speaker 1: of money, made an honest living, working, you know, in

562
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:34,959
Speaker 1: a great job that she tried to support her too

563
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 1: little girls, but had no way, no recourse. Nothing that

564
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 1: she did could save her life. She was afraid, she

565
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 1: knew that he had all these guns and what the

566
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 1: medical example. The woman was just saying, we don't even

567
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 1: know if he's telling the truth. He shot her in

568
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:51,760
Speaker 1: the stomach. He could have shot her in the back

569
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 1: as she was running away from him. This is that's

570
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 1: probably another reason why they're charging him with murder. Was

571
00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:59,239
Speaker 1: this wasn't just her coming down the stairs at him

572
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 1: and he shot him. This is probably he's a liar,

573
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:03,720
Speaker 1: and this is probably not even the truth where she

574
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 1: was even shot, telling her family, friends and coworkers that

575
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:11,680
Speaker 1: she was afraid, holding a gun to her head, according

576
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:16,120
Speaker 1: to her, threatening to kill her talk talk, your time

577
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 1: is up. I've got two choices, to kill you or

578
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:23,239
Speaker 1: to kill you. That is what she told friends. He

579
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 1: said to her, the threats unrelenting. To doctor Bethany Marshall,

580
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 1: how often is unfounded jealousy a part of domestic violence?

581
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 1: I would say in every single case. I would say

582
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:41,360
Speaker 1: there are a few symptoms that we see in every

583
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 1: domestic violence situation. Threats, threats through intimidation, threats through bullying,

584
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:51,480
Speaker 1: threats through hitting. That is a major part of it.

585
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:57,280
Speaker 1: Jealousy is so runs through every single domestic violence case

586
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:03,120
Speaker 1: because what happens is that the user cannot distinguish between

587
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:08,880
Speaker 1: separateness and autonomy and betrayal and cheating. It all becomes

588
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 1: one big swirl in the abuser's mind, so they cannot

589
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:15,800
Speaker 1: You know, a part of every healthy relationship is spending

590
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 1: time apart as well as spending time together. It's a

591
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:22,879
Speaker 1: very basic, basic principle coming together and going apart, That

592
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 1: very basic concept is not in an abuser's mind. So

593
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:30,840
Speaker 1: for any of your listeners who are an abusive relationships,

594
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 1: they might want to think about if they are unable

595
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:36,080
Speaker 1: to have separate friends, or to go to work without

596
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:39,440
Speaker 1: their husband or partners stopping by, if they always have

597
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:42,319
Speaker 1: to share the content of their phone conversations, if they're

598
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:44,239
Speaker 1: never allowed to walk out of the room when they're

599
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:47,319
Speaker 1: talking on the phone, when the guy goes through her

600
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:50,440
Speaker 1: personal effects or personal belongings to make sure she's not

601
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:54,240
Speaker 1: with somebody else, that these are really very strong possible

602
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:57,839
Speaker 1: signs of domestic violence. To add insult to injury, take

603
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:03,200
Speaker 1: a listen to our friend tailor carn WGMA thirteen. Melissa Susa,

604
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:05,960
Speaker 1: a Waterville resident and mother of two, was found dead

605
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:09,319
Speaker 1: in her home last week, and former co workers here

606
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:11,759
Speaker 1: at the Duncan Donuts on College Avenue decided to help

607
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:15,960
Speaker 1: out with those funeral costs by collecting donations. According to employees,

608
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:18,920
Speaker 1: those donations were stolen, and this wasn't the only location

609
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:21,799
Speaker 1: it happened at. Duncan Donut employees tell us that an

610
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 1: unknown amount of cash was stolen from donation buckets at

611
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:28,760
Speaker 1: the stores on College Avenue, Main Street and inside Walmart.

612
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:32,959
Speaker 1: Waterville police say it happened Sunday night. Susa's family says

613
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:35,920
Speaker 1: the news was hard to hear. My sister wasn't tars.

614
00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:40,320
Speaker 1: She doesn't understand how anybody can do this. Waterville residents

615
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:44,000
Speaker 1: are just as shocked. It's disgusting that something like people

616
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 1: would actually do that, and this lady just died his kids.

617
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:50,319
Speaker 1: Family members of SUSA say the donations were being used

618
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 1: to pay for her funeral and to help out her

619
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:55,480
Speaker 1: two girls who were now in the foster care system.

620
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:58,480
Speaker 1: The funding was going to go everything that made from

621
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:01,400
Speaker 1: now to their future. So whoever did this really our

622
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:04,399
Speaker 1: family by taking from these kids? Don't can. Employees say

623
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 1: all soul and buckets have been replaced and they hope

624
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:10,200
Speaker 1: people will continue to donate. Oh, it just breaks my heart,

625
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:16,200
Speaker 1: breaks my heart. Family Violence Domestic Abuse Hotline eight seven

626
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:20,399
Speaker 1: seven eight nine zero seven seven eight eight repeat eight

627
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:25,360
Speaker 1: seven seven eight nine zero seven to seven eight eight

628
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:31,960
Speaker 1: Bethany daughter, Bethany Marshall. How does domestic violence escalate to murder?

629
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:37,200
Speaker 1: It escalates when the woman begins to assert herself And

630
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:41,640
Speaker 1: that is the very sad fact in very mild cases,

631
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 1: like very mildly dysfunctional relationships, when a woman becomes more autonomous,

632
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:50,600
Speaker 1: the man will simply lose interest in her. So that's

633
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:54,480
Speaker 1: a low level of dysfunction. In a high level of dysfunction,

634
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:59,600
Speaker 1: any act of independence is really what incites the man,

635
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 1: which which is why I thought it was so brilliant

636
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:04,839
Speaker 1: that you asked about jealousy, because that really gets at

637
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:06,480
Speaker 1: the core of it. You can look at all these

638
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:11,440
Speaker 1: behaviors such as hitting, threatening, slapping, but what is underneath it?

639
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:16,480
Speaker 1: We talk about power and control, but really what's more

640
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:20,799
Speaker 1: profound is the inability to be separate from the love

641
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Speaker 1: object without feeling abandoned and betrayed. So, to answer your question,

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Speaker 1: that is when it escalates when the woman tries to leap,

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00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:32,719
Speaker 1: when she develops friends, when she goes to work, when

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00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:36,880
Speaker 1: she spends money independently, when she cuddles her children in

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00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 1: bed or puts them on her lap. These are the

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Speaker 1: times when it escalates. If she was just willing to

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Speaker 1: be by the man's side all day long and let

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Speaker 1: him do whatever he wanted to do, maybe she would

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Speaker 1: maintain her life. But that's no life either, is it true?

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Speaker 1: To like Strezhu that the twin girls to police, quote

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Speaker 1: dad was mad at mom because she had a new boyfriend.

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Speaker 1: That Daddy tugged them into bed Tuesday night and said, police,

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Speaker 1: we're coming to get him. Yes, that is what the

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00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:05,400
Speaker 1: police have revealed. And this is so this is the

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Speaker 1: story that he has told the children. He's told them,

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00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:09,839
Speaker 1: you know, mommy's laught. She has this new boyfriend really

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00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:12,400
Speaker 1: to cover his tracks. And this is so scarring for

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Speaker 1: these little kids. And this is just another piece of

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Speaker 1: evidence that the prosecutors are going to use to show

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Speaker 1: that this was definitely not self defense. And now the

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Speaker 1: two little girls in a foster home friends say, quote,

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Speaker 1: he's a nightmare, He's a devil. She was afraid. She

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00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:38,520
Speaker 1: was afraid, and that's why she stayed. Domestic Abuse Hotline

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Speaker 1: eight seven seven eight nine zero seven seven eight eight

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Speaker 1: Nancy Gray signing off Goodbye friend,