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Speaker 1: All these different sports offer an angle of athletics that

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Speaker 1: I think can help you become even better in the

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Speaker 1: sport you specialize in. Now it's almost like you're not

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Speaker 1: permitted to sail anymore if you're a kid. No, you're

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Speaker 1: allowed to sail, And what a great context to sail in.

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Speaker 1: There's so many wonderful lessons in sport. This is the

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Speaker 1: Reformed Sports Project, a podcast about restoring healthy balance and

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Speaker 1: perspective in all areas of sports through education and advocacy.

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Speaker 1: All right, this is Nick Bonacoor from the Reformed Sports

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Speaker 1: Project podcast. Joining me today is the head women's soccer

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Speaker 1: coach from the University of North Carolina, Anson Lawrence. Coach

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Speaker 1: Lawrence is one of the most successful coaches in the

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Speaker 1: history of athletics. Under his leadership, the tar Heels have

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Speaker 1: one of staggering thirty one and see a a women's

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Speaker 1: soccer championships. And we touch on everything from early specialization

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Speaker 1: to why coach believes playing multiple sports is the right

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Speaker 1: way to go about it at the youth level, to

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Speaker 1: competitiveness and failure, and why it's so vital that kids

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Speaker 1: have as much fun as possible. I say this a lot,

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Speaker 1: but I'm I'm extra fired up today. I have a legend,

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Speaker 1: a living legend, a goat, however you want to call it,

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Speaker 1: one of the greatest of all time. I'm really humbled

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Speaker 1: and privileged. Coach. Thank you so much for hopping on, sir.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely my pleasure. Thank you, Yes, sir. So where I

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Speaker 1: want to start. You know, our audience is majority sports parents,

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Speaker 1: we have kids, we have you know, aspiring athletes of

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Speaker 1: all different sports. And one of the topics that I

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Speaker 1: love to start with really ties into I'm gonna kind

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Speaker 1: of tie it into another goat, right, who I would

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Speaker 1: consider to be one of the greatest women's soccer players

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Speaker 1: of all time, quite frankly, one of the biggest names

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Speaker 1: in US sports history, I believe, And that's Mia Ham.

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Speaker 1: She played for you, and you know, I think it

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Speaker 1: takes a goat to Noah goat. And one thing about

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Speaker 1: Mia that stands out to me looking back on her

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Speaker 1: career is she was a multi sport athlete. I mean,

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Speaker 1: she advocates for it. She kicked field goals in high school,

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Speaker 1: she played hoops. Obviously tenacious soccer player, but today, in

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Speaker 1: today's youth sports culture, there was a big push for

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Speaker 1: early sports specialization we're talking seven eighteen specialized year round.

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Speaker 1: I want to ask you, I mean, you have all

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Speaker 1: the experience and now what are your thoughts on early

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Speaker 1: sports specialization versus kids sampling and trying to play multiple sports. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't think early specialization is a good idea. Um

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Speaker 1: and uh, I know it's counterintuitive, but believe it or not,

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Speaker 1: the athletes that end up becoming the best have a

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Speaker 1: general sports education when they're young. And I think what's

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Speaker 1: critical for us as parents, but also as youth educators

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Speaker 1: and youth coaches. I think what's critical is to encourage

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Speaker 1: all the kids that we're training and developing and the

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Speaker 1: kids that are our kids, uh, to sample everything, but

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Speaker 1: also to keep playing everything as long as they can.

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Speaker 1: One of my favorite podcasts that I did was interviewing

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Speaker 1: the parents of Geo Raina. Geo Reina is an American

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Speaker 1: superstar player that's the only American teenager to play in

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Speaker 1: the Champions League. He plays for Brushia Dortmund in the

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Speaker 1: Buddhist Legua and he's one of our rising stars and

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Speaker 1: as a teenager, he was representing Brushia Dortmun in the

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Speaker 1: Champions League, which, of course, in our game is the

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Speaker 1: ultimate club competition. The Bundish League is certainly in great

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Speaker 1: league in Germany, the English Premier League a certainly a

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Speaker 1: great league in England. But all the teams that compete

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Speaker 1: the Champions League or the best of the best. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And here's this teenager starting for Brusha Dortmund that is

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Speaker 1: just an incredible player. So I had his mom and

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Speaker 1: dad on how did I get them on? His mom

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Speaker 1: played for me at the University of North Carolina, Daniel Egan.

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Speaker 1: And the dad, of course, is one of the all

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Speaker 1: time US soccer greats, Claudio Raina, And they were talking

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Speaker 1: about how they raised their kid, and they were talking

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Speaker 1: about how even late into his mid teens, this kid

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Speaker 1: was still playing a a U basketball. So here's a

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Speaker 1: kid it ended up the absolute cream of his sport

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Speaker 1: in the United States. And what is he doing as

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Speaker 1: a fourteen year old He's playing a AU basketball. Why

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Speaker 1: because he loved it, you know, like all these American kids,

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Speaker 1: he played multiple sports and he wasn't willing to give

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Speaker 1: up any of them. And the thing that was interesting

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Speaker 1: is both his parents, who were soccer experts, both of

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Speaker 1: them played for their respective national teams. Daniel Egan had

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Speaker 1: some opportunities playing with me on the US women's national team,

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Speaker 1: and Claudio of course is an icon on the men's

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Speaker 1: side on the national team. And all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: you know, he's probably you know, going to his mom

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Speaker 1: and dad saying, hey, mom and dad, I'm you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna keep playing basketball. The dad sort of said sure,

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Speaker 1: sort of the mom. And so here are people that

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Speaker 1: are experts in player development, because Claudio also was a

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Speaker 1: part of the structure when he was coaching in New

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Speaker 1: York and now Austin for player development for the young

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Speaker 1: kids growing up. His philosophy was, yes, play everything you

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Speaker 1: want to play. I mean, you have a good time,

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Speaker 1: I fall in love with sports, and then obviously eventually

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Speaker 1: fall in love with you know, whatever sport you decide

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Speaker 1: is going to be your sport. And I think that's

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Speaker 1: the attitude that all of us should have that are

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Speaker 1: the parents of, you know, young boys and girls who

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Speaker 1: want to play multiple sports. But also, we've got to

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Speaker 1: get rid of this this idea. And I know it's

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Speaker 1: counterintuitive because surely the more time you spend with a

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Speaker 1: particular skill set, the better you're gonna be at it.

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Speaker 1: But there's a certain amount of value in getting sort

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Speaker 1: of across training across multiple sports, because all these different

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Speaker 1: sports offer an angle of athletics that I think can

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Speaker 1: help you become even better in the sport you specialize in.

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Speaker 1: And I think so there's another element. And I love

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Speaker 1: how you touched on that the crossovers sports, because you

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Speaker 1: can see it basketball, soccer, or even lacrosse and all

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Speaker 1: these sports they kind of the same movements. I mean

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Speaker 1: even hockey for that matter. But where I want to

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Speaker 1: go with this is this is a subject I believe

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Speaker 1: is near and dear to your heart. I've read many

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Speaker 1: articles and I've heard you on other podcast talking about it,

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Speaker 1: and I've interviewed and this is where i want to

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Speaker 1: talk about the crossover from sports. So I'm going to

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Speaker 1: name a few coaches. I mean, you probably know who

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Speaker 1: they are. Jim Calhoun, who is the head coach University

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Speaker 1: of Connecticut, won several national titles. Tim Corbin Vanderbilt University.

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Speaker 1: Mike Fox, who was at Carolina, one of your colleagues

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Speaker 1: for many years, and I can go on and on.

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Speaker 1: Every single one of them has brought up that there

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Speaker 1: is an element of competition, competitiveness that comes and I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna give you this quote from former Arizona State head

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Speaker 1: baseball coach Tracy Smith that I thought was amazing, and

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Speaker 1: I want to see where you go with it, he said, Nick,

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Speaker 1: I'd rather have a kid who I'm recruiting to come

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Speaker 1: to Arizona State and play baseball in the wintertime standing

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Speaker 1: on a free throw line getting ready to shoot a

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Speaker 1: one and one late in the game for his high school,

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Speaker 1: then standing in a batting cage taking swings. That competition,

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Speaker 1: that pressure, that moment, that competitiveness is going to translate

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Speaker 1: help them be a better baseball player. All of them

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Speaker 1: have agreed competition, the competitiveness. Can you talk about specifically

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Speaker 1: that attitude, that mentality competition wise that can come from

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Speaker 1: being you know, versatile and subjected to different elements in

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Speaker 1: different sports. Well. Absolutely. I think whenever I'm interviewed about

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Speaker 1: the long term success of our program, I bring up

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Speaker 1: three critical elements that have helped put us in this position.

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Speaker 1: And the first element was always, um, this thing you're

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Speaker 1: talking about right now is this competitive thing. And obviously

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Speaker 1: I think all of us coach through our own natures,

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Speaker 1: and I've always loved sports, and I've always loved all sports.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's not a sport out there. I don't

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Speaker 1: really enjoy playing uh and I've played all these different

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Speaker 1: sports growing up, and I think what separated us when

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Speaker 1: we started coaching was this attitude that I'm always curious

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Speaker 1: to find out who's the best that everything in every practice.

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Speaker 1: So what we've done from the beginning at the University

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Speaker 1: of North Carolina is we've structed our training environments to

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Speaker 1: be ranked competitions, and so we have twenty eight different

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Speaker 1: competitive categories that our athletes compete in. Sometimes they just

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Speaker 1: compete in at once a semester, we bring them all

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Speaker 1: back for a beep test. A beep test is a

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Speaker 1: cardiovoscular test where basically running about twenty meters, then a

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Speaker 1: beep goes off, and then you change directions can go

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Speaker 1: back to the starting line, it goes off again. These

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Speaker 1: beeps keep going off, and what happens in a beat

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Speaker 1: test is the beeps get closer and closer together, so

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Speaker 1: you've got to run faster and faster, and if eventually

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Speaker 1: you miss a beep, you're warned. In other words, you

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Speaker 1: don't get back to the line on the beap, you're warned,

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Speaker 1: and then if you miss it for a second time,

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Speaker 1: you're thrown out of the competition, and we have a standard.

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Speaker 1: We want our kids get to forty on the beat.

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Speaker 1: And so after this thing, and we do this thing

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Speaker 1: in the first part of the first practice. When they

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Speaker 1: come back in August, is there all ranked. So sometimes

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Speaker 1: the competitions are once a semester competitions, but then they're

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Speaker 1: put up on a bulletin board and some of the

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Speaker 1: competitions are weekly, some of them are you know, monthly,

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Speaker 1: and you sort of move up and down this competitive

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Speaker 1: ladder based on your success in these things. And just

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Speaker 1: like in all the sports like soccer, basketball would certainly

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Speaker 1: be one field, hockey would be one. Lacrosse, you're playing

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Speaker 1: you know, one v ones, two v two, three v

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Speaker 1: three's four v four is five v fives, et cetera,

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Speaker 1: all the way up to eleven the elevens. And if

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Speaker 1: you're part of a winning team, you have a winning percentage.

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Speaker 1: If you're part of a losing team, that obviously hurts

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Speaker 1: your winning percentage. We have drafts player drafts before these competitions,

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Speaker 1: so you will see where you stand with your teammates

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Speaker 1: because your draft rank is a matter of public record.

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Speaker 1: All these different elements are part of the way we're

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Speaker 1: constructing our training environments, and why are we constructed in

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Speaker 1: this way? We want the athlete to decide to be

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Speaker 1: the alpha. Who's the alpha and this exercise? Who's going

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Speaker 1: to dominate this? Who's going to dominate that? And what

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Speaker 1: you're really training is you're training the athletes psychological dimension.

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Speaker 1: And it's critical that you trained this aspect of an

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Speaker 1: athlete because so interesting mentioned Tim Corban. Tim and I

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Speaker 1: are good friends, and it's really interesting. We've had a

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Speaker 1: lot of different groups approach us recently about competition from

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Speaker 1: the baseball world, and I just couldn't really figure it out.

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Speaker 1: And then finally, um, we were chatting with the Pittsburgh Pirates.

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Speaker 1: We were up there playing against pitt because it is

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Speaker 1: a part of the A c C. And we're up

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Speaker 1: there playing uh and the Pirates found out I was

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Speaker 1: up there through a guy that used to work with

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Speaker 1: my athletes and academics at u NC and now is

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Speaker 1: a consultant for the Pirates, who we asked me if

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't mind speaking to the executive board of the

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Speaker 1: Pittsburgh Pirates, and I said, obviously, no problem because actually

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Speaker 1: when I was a boy, I was a huge Pirates fan,

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Speaker 1: So what honor for me to, you know, speak to

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Speaker 1: the Pirates leadership. And the thing that we're most curious

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Speaker 1: about was setting up competitions, because here's what's interesting about baseball.

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Speaker 1: Baseball isn't structured as a competition until the games begin,

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Speaker 1: and as a result, they've got to figure out ways

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Speaker 1: to structure competition into their training because if they don't,

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Speaker 1: they're losing out on what you described as Tim Corbin

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Speaker 1: for the the Arizona State coach of Camember who you

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Speaker 1: were referenced. Yeah, basically, and I was on the free

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Speaker 1: throw line for a one and one and all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden, theyve got to have this focus and they've

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Speaker 1: got to have all these different elements. Well, I think

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Speaker 1: you can train that because we've been training it forever,

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Speaker 1: and I think the cauldron is running reason we've been

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Speaker 1: consistently successful in North Carolina. And when I was first

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Speaker 1: appointed to coach the US women's national team, and basically,

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Speaker 1: I'm coaching in the World's Game. This is not our game.

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Speaker 1: When I was hired, we had never won a game

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Speaker 1: an international competition. And five years after I was hired,

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Speaker 1: we were world champions in the World's Game. This isn't

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Speaker 1: even our game. How do we do it? We did

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Speaker 1: it because my kids were more competitive than all these

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Speaker 1: other countries that had soccer as a part of their culture.

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Speaker 1: So we had identified something that I think was unique.

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Speaker 1: We had identified something that wasn't something that was comfortable

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Speaker 1: in the women's sports across sports, but also across the globe,

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Speaker 1: and it sort of struck a chord and it's made

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Speaker 1: all the difference for us in the United States is

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Speaker 1: still on top of the world in women's soccer because

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Speaker 1: of this one. There are other countries out there that

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Speaker 1: are better technically, like the Japanese. Their countries out there

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Speaker 1: that is just as good athletically, Like the French. Their

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Speaker 1: countries out there that are better tactically, like the Germans,

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Speaker 1: the Dutch, the Italians, the Spaniards. We can go on

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Speaker 1: and on and on, and yet who keeps winning well

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Speaker 1: the United States? And so this stuff you're talking about

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Speaker 1: right now, this this competitive fire. You can develop it,

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Speaker 1: and yes, you have to practice it. This is an

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Speaker 1: absolute critical element that should be a part of every

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Speaker 1: coach's platform. Of course, I'm staying this and you're telling

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Speaker 1: me that on this call. Are you know, parents and

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Speaker 1: youth coaches and and kids. Uh, there's a demarcation line.

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Speaker 1: And I don't think that you know, this should be

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Speaker 1: the end all when you're incredibly young as a sportsman

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Speaker 1: or a sportswoman or a youth sports coach, because obviously

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Speaker 1: one of the worst things about youth coaching is the

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Speaker 1: coaches that are overly competitive. Yeah, they basically dry, I've

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Speaker 1: the players crazy. I think basically you're moral imperative as

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Speaker 1: a youth coach is to make sure the kid leaves

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Speaker 1: practice of having had the time of his life playing

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Speaker 1: the sport. And I don't think in my sport you

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Speaker 1: should start to make things extraordinarily competitive until it's Olympic

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Speaker 1: development level at a youth four team level or above.

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Speaker 1: So I think you've got to wait a little. So

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Speaker 1: please don't, if you're a U ten coach, start to

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Speaker 1: make everything competitive. Have is your primary interest making sure

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Speaker 1: everything is fun. The mission of a youth coach is

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Speaker 1: to make sure the kid is having the time of

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Speaker 1: his or her life and that they can trust adults

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Speaker 1: to protect them, to keep them safe, to make sure

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Speaker 1: they're enjoying life. So I give these lectures all the time,

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Speaker 1: and then I see these youth coaches, you know, spinning

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Speaker 1: off the rails. And I don't want any of the

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Speaker 1: comments I'm making right now about competition to seep into

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Speaker 1: youth sport the moral imperative for youth coaches to make

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Speaker 1: sure it's fun. So what I'm addressing right now are

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Speaker 1: the higher level athletes, the older athletes, because then the

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Speaker 1: thing you are going to be training is the psychological dimension,

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Speaker 1: which is your capacity to focus and compete at the

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Speaker 1: highest level to train your psychological dimensions, that's aunts and

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Speaker 1: Doran's had women's soccer coach at the University of North Carolina.

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Speaker 1: When we returned, Coach Dawns and I talked further about

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Speaker 1: competitiveness and failure. Welcome back to the Reformed Sports Project podcast.

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Speaker 1: Where coach Dawns and I left off, we were about

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Speaker 1: to dig further in new competitiveness and what age groups

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Speaker 1: that's appropriate for and the importance of failure and having fun.

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Speaker 1: You know. And I've been doing this for a while now,

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Speaker 1: and some people interpret the saive. I'm really glad you

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Speaker 1: brought that up. I have yet to come across a

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Speaker 1: definition that says youth or quote unquote, uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: youth sports is at this age and see and everything

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Speaker 1: else is above that. I think when you're in high

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Speaker 1: school gets a little bit different than when you're in

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Speaker 1: middle school and younger. I mean, and I know there's

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Speaker 1: different examples, but as far as the competitiveness, you know,

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Speaker 1: and pushing towards developing the competitive mind and all of that,

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Speaker 1: I would love it if you can kind of touch

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Speaker 1: on a little bit of details because people will hear

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Speaker 1: something like that, and quite frankly, coach, I think that

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Speaker 1: the ten thousand hour rule, you know, Malcolm Gladwell and

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Speaker 1: all that, I think that, in turn, was taken out

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Speaker 1: of context in some ways and really push this early specialization,

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Speaker 1: like let's hey, Tiger Woods, right, let's start our kid

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Speaker 1: at three ten thousand hours. The next thing, you know,

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Speaker 1: we got a c L tears and Tommy John surgeries

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Speaker 1: and fourteen year olds are normal nowadays, whereas twenty five

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Speaker 1: years ago it was unheard of. So there is an

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Speaker 1: element of pushing too fast. But I always try to say,

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Speaker 1: and I'm curious as your thoughts, I think you can

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Speaker 1: teach kids to be competitive, compete to win. At the

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Speaker 1: Youth Ages meeting, let's call it twelve you I think

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Speaker 1: you can teach them how to be competitive while still

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Speaker 1: having a great time. Do you think that's the case.

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Speaker 1: And if it is or isn't, how can you, maybe

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Speaker 1: as a youth coach do that right to have fun

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Speaker 1: and still teach kids to be on a track towards competitiveness. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think you can do that, But I'm always afraid

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Speaker 1: when you start to, you know, open that up, that

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden, these people that aren't really experts

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Speaker 1: in this area across the line. I think still for

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Speaker 1: the youth coach, what's critical is to help that kid

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Speaker 1: fall in love with sports, fall in love with the

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Speaker 1: value of sports, which is socialization, learning to cooperate with

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Speaker 1: your peers, understanding and embracing the challenge of of failure,

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Speaker 1: because um, I think too often the biggest mistakes parents

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Speaker 1: make these days, certainly with all the entitled kids I'm coaching,

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Speaker 1: is they want to protect their kids, you know, from failure.

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Speaker 1: And one of the things that's best about sport, believe

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Speaker 1: it or not, is failure because you're teaching resilience. You're

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Speaker 1: teaching you know, don't worry about it. The son is

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Speaker 1: gonna be up there in the sky tomorrow morning. The

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Speaker 1: world's gonna be fine. And uh, I mean, what's happening

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Speaker 1: right now? It's it's almost like you're not permitted to

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Speaker 1: fail anymore if you're a kid and I'm your father,

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Speaker 1: and no, you're allowed to fail. And what a great

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Speaker 1: context to fail in. And then you get to make decisions, well, uh,

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Speaker 1: are you gonna work a little harder? And does it

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Speaker 1: really matter? I mean, there's so many wonderful lessons in sport.

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Speaker 1: And the book I recommend to people to read is

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Speaker 1: actually about this balance. And the book is called Range

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Speaker 1: and David that's correct. I mean the other part of

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Speaker 1: the title of the book is why generalist triumph and

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Speaker 1: a specialized world? And he does talk about tiger Woods.

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Speaker 1: There are exceptions. Tiger Woods is an exception. Uh tiger Woods,

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Speaker 1: you know, uh, because he loved his father and they've

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Speaker 1: developed a great relationship through golf. And yeah, he was

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Speaker 1: a specialist when he was young. And is he one

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Speaker 1: of the greatest of all time? Absolutely, so there are

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Speaker 1: exceptions to this generalist rule. But then in the book,

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Speaker 1: David Epstein goes through all the different kinds of sports

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Speaker 1: of these other greatest of all time athletes played growing up,

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Speaker 1: and I think that's the direction I think most of

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Speaker 1: us should go in. Are there exceptions to this generalization

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Speaker 1: rule that we're talking about, Absolutely, and Tiger Woods is

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Speaker 1: probably the best one. But what I would recommend for

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Speaker 1: people to do if they're really interested in this area

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Speaker 1: is to actually buy the David Epstein book and it

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Speaker 1: will share all these different examples of why a generalist

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Speaker 1: is probably the route to go um. But I think

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Speaker 1: the critical message for the youth coaches is to make

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Speaker 1: everything fun. Can you make it somewhat competitive, yes, But

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Speaker 1: I think too often, too many of the coaches and

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Speaker 1: too many of the parents go overboard in this area,

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Speaker 1: and I think it ends up scoring the kids in

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Speaker 1: a negative way. Because what's happening in my sport, which

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Speaker 1: is shocking, is they're quitting our sport in droves time.

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Speaker 1: The kids that are playing youth soccer end up, you know, fourteen, fifteen,

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Speaker 1: sixteen year olds, they're quitting. Why are they quitting? Their

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Speaker 1: quitting because the coach is taking his youth matches on

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Speaker 1: weekends too seriously um and he's not playing his entire roster.

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Speaker 1: He's playing the best eleven kids because that helps him

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Speaker 1: win the other seven on his eighteen player roster are

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Speaker 1: playing limited minutes because what's clearly most important for the

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Speaker 1: coach but also for the culture that we've raised these

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Speaker 1: kids in his winning and of course, uh, that's that's

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Speaker 1: not good. I think even U n C we play

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Speaker 1: a deep roster. I've always believed in playing a deep roster.

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Speaker 1: In fact, I am criticized for it by my peers.

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Speaker 1: I'm even criticized for it on the air by the

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Speaker 1: color commentators. Do all come from backgrounds of other coaches

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Speaker 1: who you know don't play a maximum number of players? Um?

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Speaker 1: And I just don't understand. I don't understand why all

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Speaker 1: these different groups seem to think that you've got to

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Speaker 1: be a soccer purist and go by FIFA rules where

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Speaker 1: you're allowed three substitutions, which is absolutely absurd. And I

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Speaker 1: don't think I really have to prove that I can

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Speaker 1: coach with three substitutions pack a world championship with it.

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Speaker 1: And so I know how to do three substitutions, but

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Speaker 1: I think it's ridiculous. Play the kids you recruit, um,

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Speaker 1: and I think at a youth level, play the kids

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Speaker 1: on your team. I mean, do you really have to

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Speaker 1: win every game? Is that you know, getting that trophy

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Speaker 1: for being the state champion at a you twelve levels.

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Speaker 1: That really, coach, Let's be honest here. When you're recruiting,

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Speaker 1: you you know you're asking the recruits about their eight

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Speaker 1: you career, right, I mean then it's not an intricate

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Speaker 1: part of your recruiting process. Absolutely absolutely, so yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean you get it as well. So I think what's

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Speaker 1: critical when we talk about this competitive piece is I

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Speaker 1: think it's more important as they get older and specialized,

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Speaker 1: and when they're younger again, the priority has to be

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Speaker 1: let's make sure this is fun. Coach. I could spend

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Speaker 1: all day on the phone with you. This is awesome

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Speaker 1: first and foremost, You're you're you're giving away you know

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Speaker 1: gold here, and it's gonna be so helpful for people.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of kids, like I said, parents, recruits,

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Speaker 1: all of these people are gonna want to know where

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Speaker 1: they can get more hands on info. They want to

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Speaker 1: dig into the unc you know, women's soccer culture. They

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Speaker 1: want to know and learn more about one of the

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Speaker 1: greatest of all time. Where can they find you? Where

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Speaker 1: can they find your books, your podcast, any material to

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Speaker 1: learn more about what you do? The book, the baseball

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Speaker 1: team bought and distributed among their executive staff was the

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Speaker 1: Man Watching. The author is Tim Caruthers. Jim is a

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Speaker 1: former Sports Illustrated senior writer graduated from the University of

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Speaker 1: North Carolina that came home and spent five years with us.

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Speaker 1: And the book is all the different aspects of our culture.

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Speaker 1: So the cauldron is in there, the way we basically

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Speaker 1: but treat our kids is in there. But what's also

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Speaker 1: in there are priorities, and our priorities actually our human development.

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Speaker 1: Even though yes I'm a soccer coach. The priority is

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Speaker 1: to develop us someone's character above everything else, uh, and

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Speaker 1: then to develop a kid academically, uh, as a secondary

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Speaker 1: characteristic to character, and then finally to develop them as

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Speaker 1: soccer players. So that book, uh, it's a wonderful book,

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Speaker 1: and it's not a hay geography. It's basically there's a

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Speaker 1: whole chapter in there from my critics, So if you

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Speaker 1: want to know what my critics think about what we've done,

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Speaker 1: it's all in there. And then a couple of books

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Speaker 1: that I wrote with co authors, Training Soccer Champions, which

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Speaker 1: has chapters in there about the Cauldron. And that's a

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Speaker 1: very popular book across sports. Because it talks about how

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Speaker 1: to set up your cauldron's regardless of the sport. Then

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Speaker 1: the other one is about soccer development for youth. So

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Speaker 1: Vision of a Champion is for youth training, Soccer Champions

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Speaker 1: is for coaches. And those are the books that basically

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Speaker 1: will give insights into our culture, into the cauldron, into

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Speaker 1: what I consider the goal for player development. And we

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Speaker 1: also have a podcast out there that's after each chapter

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Speaker 1: in Vision of a Champion, and that podcast is the

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Speaker 1: Vision of a Champion podcast, And there I'm interviewing a

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Speaker 1: lot of the UNC greats like the Mia Hamms, you know,

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Speaker 1: the Christine Lili's, the Crystal Duns, the Tobin Heaths, but

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Speaker 1: also right now the world's best player, one of my

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Speaker 1: former players, the right back for England, Lucy Bronze. We're

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Speaker 1: interviewing all these great people and so the Vision of

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Speaker 1: a Champion podcast, I think we'll give insights from all

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Speaker 1: these former tar Heel greats about how people can get

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Speaker 1: to their potential. Coach, you're the man. I cannot thank

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Speaker 1: you enough your legend and truly humbled by you coming

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Speaker 1: out here coaching well my pleasure and I appreciate the

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Speaker 1: interview and good luck with everything that's ants and durance,

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Speaker 1: head women's soccer coach at the University of North Carolina.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Reformed Sports Project podcast dom

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Speaker 1: Nick Bonicore and Our goal is to restore a healthy

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Speaker 1: balance and perspective in all areas of sport through education

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Speaker 1: and advocacy. For updates, please follow us on Facebook, Twitter,

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Speaker 1: and Instagram, or check out our website by searching for

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Speaker 1: the Reform Sports Project. H