WEBVTT - Bloomberg Businessweek Weekend - July 12th, 2024 0:00:01.360 --> 0:00:05.760 This is Bloomberg business Week Inside from the reporters and 0:00:05.920 --> 0:00:09.480 editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus 0:00:09.560 --> 0:00:13.680 global business, finance and tech news. The Bloomberg Business Week 0:00:13.720 --> 0:00:18.680 Podcast with Carol Messer and Tim Stenebeck from Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:20.239 --> 0:00:23.160 Hi, everyone, Welcome to the Bloomberg Business Week weekend podcast. 0:00:23.680 --> 0:00:25.760 Call it the Wall Street Churn this past week as 0:00:25.840 --> 0:00:28.479 Vetchir J. Powell spend two days up on Capitol Hill 0:00:28.760 --> 0:00:33.320 taking questions on the economy and monetary policy. Sounding rather neutral, 0:00:33.320 --> 0:00:37.000 one might even say boring, dare they They did, how 0:00:37.040 --> 0:00:40.080 although warrant lawmakers that lowering interest rates too little or 0:00:40.120 --> 0:00:42.400 too late could put the economy and the labor market 0:00:42.440 --> 0:00:45.800 at risk, while also reiterating that cutting rates too soon 0:00:45.960 --> 0:00:49.400 or too much could stall or even reverse inflation progress, 0:00:49.640 --> 0:00:52.640 hinting that perhaps two percent is no longer the target number. 0:00:52.920 --> 0:00:54.960 You don't want to wait until fluflation gets all the 0:00:54.960 --> 0:00:58.600 way down to two percent, because inflation has a certain momentum. 0:00:59.000 --> 0:01:01.040 You wouldn't wait that long. If you waited that long, 0:01:01.080 --> 0:01:04.000 you probably waited too long because inflation will be moving 0:01:04.040 --> 0:01:06.240 downward and we'll go well below two percent, which we 0:01:06.240 --> 0:01:06.720 don't want. 0:01:06.959 --> 0:01:10.039 Excluding food and energy year over year core CPI running 0:01:10.080 --> 0:01:13.000 at three point three percent, but still a softer report 0:01:13.040 --> 0:01:15.080 for the month of June, and that spills good news 0:01:15.080 --> 0:01:17.600 for investors hoping for that long awaited interest rate cut 0:01:17.720 --> 0:01:18.399 later this year. 0:01:18.600 --> 0:01:19.000 And well, J. 0:01:19.160 --> 0:01:21.720 Powell gave us a check on the economy, Carol and 0:01:21.760 --> 0:01:23.760 I this week got a check on the climate. 0:01:23.920 --> 0:01:26.360 That was definitely our focus. And that's because this week 0:01:26.400 --> 0:01:30.080 we broadcasted live from the Bloomberg Green Festival in Seattle, Washington. 0:01:30.560 --> 0:01:34.640 It was gathering of Earth's foremost collaborators, activists and innovators, 0:01:34.880 --> 0:01:38.119 business leaders, leaders from government, all on ways we can 0:01:38.160 --> 0:01:41.360 work toward a new climate era, on everything from sustainability 0:01:41.400 --> 0:01:44.640 and design to food policy, tech and so much more. 0:01:44.840 --> 0:01:47.440 And so our show this weekend is dedicated to just that. 0:01:47.920 --> 0:01:51.400 We'll hear from great minds discussing the effects of climate misinformation, 0:01:51.920 --> 0:01:55.600 ways to improve ecotourism, how a satellite can track climate 0:01:55.680 --> 0:01:59.040 warming pollution, and how the chief sustainability officer over at 0:01:59.120 --> 0:02:03.320 Amazon and a WNBA Legend are collaborating for change. 0:02:03.360 --> 0:02:05.520 We begin this hour with one of the nation's most 0:02:05.560 --> 0:02:09.120 respected voices on climate change, the environment, and public health. 0:02:09.440 --> 0:02:13.360 Jena McCarthy is a former EPA administrator, Harvard professor, and 0:02:13.520 --> 0:02:16.200 environmental thought leader. She was also the first ever White 0:02:16.240 --> 0:02:19.400 House National Climate Advisor under President Biden. We got her 0:02:19.400 --> 0:02:22.120 take on building a partnership playbook when it comes to 0:02:22.160 --> 0:02:26.560 climate initiatives. Gina is also a senior advisor at Bloomberg Philanthropies, 0:02:26.680 --> 0:02:29.720 which is the philanthropic arm of Bloomberg LP, the parent 0:02:29.760 --> 0:02:32.280 company of Bloomberg Radio and of course founded by Michael R. 0:02:32.320 --> 0:02:32.840 Bloomberg. 0:02:33.200 --> 0:02:35.480 You know, we have a lot of good companies that 0:02:35.560 --> 0:02:39.640 are here represented, but honestly, we need more partnerships, both 0:02:39.680 --> 0:02:43.919 across the USA and internationally to really tackle this at 0:02:43.919 --> 0:02:47.880 the scale that it deserves. Clearly, the Inflation Production Act 0:02:48.680 --> 0:02:52.160 was an opportunity to give some public money to drive 0:02:52.200 --> 0:02:55.080 a whole lot more private investment, and we have to 0:02:55.080 --> 0:02:56.440 stop thinking that way. 0:02:56.680 --> 0:02:58.240 I don't think it's e the or. 0:02:58.840 --> 0:03:01.359 I actually think it's so partnerships that are going to 0:03:01.480 --> 0:03:05.600 drive this in a way that actually provides meaningful scaling 0:03:06.160 --> 0:03:10.239 of this opportunity, not just in the US but globally. 0:03:10.639 --> 0:03:14.400 Okay, where's the government involvement? You mentioned the Inflation Reduction Act? Yes, 0:03:14.520 --> 0:03:16.320 in your view, is that just the tip of the Iceberg. 0:03:16.360 --> 0:03:19.280 Do we need more that Well, we saw our immediately 0:03:19.320 --> 0:03:22.480 after that happened, we saw the EU st driving new 0:03:22.600 --> 0:03:25.720 changes in Germany. So it's begun to take off, and 0:03:25.800 --> 0:03:28.600 people are realizing that it's a way for the public 0:03:28.680 --> 0:03:32.320 and private sector to really join together so that they 0:03:32.360 --> 0:03:36.080 both of them can win. This is not about, you know, 0:03:37.400 --> 0:03:40.680 spending so much money in the private sector that you can't. 0:03:40.480 --> 0:03:43.720 Afford to do the deals. This is about how. 0:03:43.520 --> 0:03:47.400 Do we make these deals affordable by connecting public and private. 0:03:47.680 --> 0:03:50.480 But there's still a lot of opportunities for private companies 0:03:50.520 --> 0:03:54.520 to accelerate their markets, and they're going to take advantage 0:03:54.520 --> 0:03:55.880 of that, and we should let them. 0:03:56.280 --> 0:04:00.680 You've worked in both Republican and democratic administrations. Why and 0:04:00.720 --> 0:04:03.760 when did the idea of climate change become so political 0:04:03.760 --> 0:04:04.280 in your view? 0:04:05.040 --> 0:04:07.640 You know, it started off being pretty political because it 0:04:07.640 --> 0:04:10.080 took a whole lot longer time than it should have 0:04:10.200 --> 0:04:14.119 for us to recognize that this was a legitimate issue. 0:04:14.480 --> 0:04:17.640 And so now, of course it still remains fairly political. 0:04:17.720 --> 0:04:23.200 But honestly, the politics starts to move out when you 0:04:23.320 --> 0:04:26.279 realize that the kind of technologies and opportunities we have 0:04:26.360 --> 0:04:29.400 today are going to make people's lives better, if it's 0:04:29.440 --> 0:04:32.120 going to keep us healthier, it's going to save us money, 0:04:32.320 --> 0:04:34.600 if it's going to create real jobs, which. 0:04:34.400 --> 0:04:35.680 Is what we're seeing today. 0:04:36.160 --> 0:04:39.120 The politics may still be there, but it doesn't have 0:04:39.240 --> 0:04:40.200 the punch it news to. 0:04:41.000 --> 0:04:44.240 How much speaking of politics of America remains all in 0:04:45.120 --> 0:04:48.080 if it elects Trump in November, given his promises to 0:04:48.120 --> 0:04:51.320 eliminate what he calls the ev mandate, target offshore wind 0:04:51.560 --> 0:04:53.599 and pull the US out of the Paris Crimate Agreement. 0:04:53.760 --> 0:04:57.240 Look, I have every expectation that what he said he's 0:04:57.320 --> 0:05:01.160 gonna do, he's gonna do. So give you your answer. 0:05:01.320 --> 0:05:04.840 I don't see the United States or globally the kind 0:05:04.920 --> 0:05:08.680 of progression we need on climate if we don't elect 0:05:08.920 --> 0:05:12.640 someone who understands climate and wants to move those. 0:05:12.440 --> 0:05:14.640 Issues, and in your view, that is not the former 0:05:14.680 --> 0:05:15.320 president that is. 0:05:15.760 --> 0:05:19.719 That is correct because what's at stake is not just climate, 0:05:19.839 --> 0:05:23.279 which is the existential challenge of our time, but it's 0:05:23.320 --> 0:05:25.160 fundamentally our democracy. 0:05:25.480 --> 0:05:28.200 Are you concerned from climate? First of all, that we 0:05:28.200 --> 0:05:30.200 would go off in a very different direction, We would 0:05:30.240 --> 0:05:34.440 be more isolated, because climate obviously has no quarters right. 0:05:34.600 --> 0:05:37.280 So yes, never before have we needed to work together 0:05:37.600 --> 0:05:40.120 with everybody. You know, we would just talking about that. 0:05:40.240 --> 0:05:43.320 It's going to take public private partnerships, and it's going 0:05:43.400 --> 0:05:47.200 to take the US and the other developed world to 0:05:47.240 --> 0:05:50.400 start investing in the developing world if we want to 0:05:50.440 --> 0:05:54.080 make this work. And those investments can't be cold, they 0:05:54.120 --> 0:05:57.000 can't be more natural gas. They've got to be the 0:05:57.040 --> 0:06:00.280 shift to clean energy and transportation that we I know 0:06:00.360 --> 0:06:01.560 we can do well. 0:06:01.600 --> 0:06:03.440 It is interesting because we know the US pulled out 0:06:03.440 --> 0:06:06.919 of the Powers Agreement under Donald Trump, then President Donald 0:06:06.920 --> 0:06:08.560 Trump if he threatened to do it again if he's 0:06:08.560 --> 0:06:11.760 elected in November. You have pointed though, in terms of 0:06:11.760 --> 0:06:15.279 climate progress that's made by states, by cities, like the 0:06:15.320 --> 0:06:17.039 local level. I think about we're going to be talking 0:06:17.040 --> 0:06:19.799 with the mayor of Seattle, like the local level really 0:06:19.839 --> 0:06:20.479 matters too. 0:06:21.040 --> 0:06:21.280 You know. 0:06:21.360 --> 0:06:25.600 That's really what Bloomberg's America All In program is all about. 0:06:25.720 --> 0:06:28.800 And it's more than five thousand people are joining together, 0:06:29.200 --> 0:06:33.000 and that's because sub national governments matter. If you remember 0:06:33.080 --> 0:06:36.520 when Trump was president before, the effort was to make 0:06:36.560 --> 0:06:40.120 sure that states and cities stood up and held the 0:06:40.200 --> 0:06:44.520 ground and kept moving forward, and that's exactly what happened. 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:46.760 So we need to make sure that We're not going 0:06:46.839 --> 0:06:50.320 back again and revisiting that. We need to actually keep 0:06:50.360 --> 0:06:54.240 moving forward with all of the breath of expertise and 0:06:54.360 --> 0:06:57.479 experience we now have that says that we can win 0:06:57.600 --> 0:07:00.800 this climate battle if we have the coach to stand 0:07:00.880 --> 0:07:04.680 up against folks that are deniers and stop really supporting 0:07:04.720 --> 0:07:07.480 those folks who know what the future needs to be. 0:07:08.080 --> 0:07:11.120 You were talking about the Inflation Reduction Act, the investment 0:07:11.120 --> 0:07:14.840 in clean tech manufacturing, clean energy products projects under biden 0:07:15.200 --> 0:07:18.680 fed by the IRA. How much of that endures regardless 0:07:18.720 --> 0:07:21.320 of what happens at the polls in November. How durable 0:07:21.920 --> 0:07:24.600 is the investment that's been unleashed by the IRA and 0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:26.760 other policies that could be carried back if Trump wins 0:07:26.800 --> 0:07:28.920 the White House? Like, how vulnerable is it? 0:07:29.240 --> 0:07:29.640 Yeah? 0:07:29.680 --> 0:07:32.960 When you look at the money, we're talking about something 0:07:33.040 --> 0:07:36.679 like three hundred and sixty one billion dollars right, right, 0:07:36.720 --> 0:07:37.920 And this is just the start. 0:07:38.000 --> 0:07:40.560 This is a ten year program. We just had a 0:07:40.720 --> 0:07:42.240 second birthday. 0:07:41.800 --> 0:07:42.239 I think. 0:07:42.360 --> 0:07:45.080 Yeah, So we have a long way to go. And 0:07:45.120 --> 0:07:49.120 we're talking about job growth that's in the plus three 0:07:49.280 --> 0:07:51.400 hundred thousand plus new jobs. 0:07:51.480 --> 0:07:51.720 Right. 0:07:52.120 --> 0:07:53.720 These things matter to people. 0:07:54.080 --> 0:07:57.680 Human beings care about this and so these are benefits 0:07:57.680 --> 0:08:01.000 that people can see and feel and taste. So that's 0:08:01.040 --> 0:08:05.240 why I believe this going. Will there be challenges, absolutely. 0:08:05.640 --> 0:08:10.800 I expect that under a Republican administration, you're going to 0:08:10.840 --> 0:08:13.280 see lots of folks wanting to pull that out. You're 0:08:13.280 --> 0:08:17.160 already seeing bills in Congress being proposed to get rid 0:08:17.160 --> 0:08:17.800 of this and that. 0:08:18.160 --> 0:08:19.360 But when push. 0:08:19.120 --> 0:08:24.600 Comes to shove, we have more money going to Republican 0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:30.960 districts that are now building the manufacturing plants that they 0:08:31.000 --> 0:08:33.439 don't want to shut down. So if they want to 0:08:33.480 --> 0:08:37.559 go against their own constituents and their benefits, then then 0:08:37.800 --> 0:08:40.320 more power to them if they want to risk it. 0:08:40.600 --> 0:08:42.760 But I don't think that's going to be the case. 0:08:42.880 --> 0:08:44.320 I think we're going to hold the fort. 0:08:44.679 --> 0:08:45.360 We'll lose some. 0:08:46.040 --> 0:08:50.760 There'll be challenges, I think internationally, not just pulling out 0:08:50.800 --> 0:08:54.680 of the NATO even, But these are the things, the lodge, 0:08:54.760 --> 0:08:56.520 things that we have to think about that. 0:08:56.679 --> 0:08:57.480 Could be at risk. 0:08:57.520 --> 0:09:00.800 Thirty seconds genius. I'm thinking about everybody who's listening, yet, 0:09:00.840 --> 0:09:03.440 what's the one thing every individual take politics out, sh'd 0:09:03.480 --> 0:09:06.160 be asking themselves when it comes to the climate, what do. 0:09:06.120 --> 0:09:09.000 They want as a future for the kids, What do 0:09:09.080 --> 0:09:12.160 they see right now as the challenges that they're facing. 0:09:12.480 --> 0:09:15.720 We can no longer hide from the climate impacts. But 0:09:15.840 --> 0:09:19.480 what we can do is grab the clean energy future 0:09:19.520 --> 0:09:22.280 for our kids. That's how we're all going in. 0:09:22.760 --> 0:09:25.439 It's definitely something we think about, right you have young kids. 0:09:25.440 --> 0:09:27.040 I have a twenty one year old. We definitely think 0:09:27.040 --> 0:09:28.920 about it. Thank you so much and all the work 0:09:28.920 --> 0:09:29.319 that you've done. 0:09:29.400 --> 0:09:30.000 Really appreciate it. 0:09:30.040 --> 0:09:32.800 Jada McCarthy, I'm so glad I squeezed it on you. 0:09:32.800 --> 0:09:34.520 Where to run out of time? If I've read all 0:09:34.840 --> 0:09:36.160 her title. 0:09:36.440 --> 0:09:38.760 It's really impressive, But it's why we wanted to talk 0:09:38.760 --> 0:09:38.920 to you. 0:09:38.920 --> 0:09:41.720 Do you former in the US EPA administrator under President Obama, 0:09:41.720 --> 0:09:44.960 the first White House National Climate Advisor appointed by President Biden. 0:09:45.440 --> 0:09:47.839 Once again, she's part of the coalition co chair of 0:09:47.880 --> 0:09:51.080 America is All In Coalition, which is supported by Michael Bloomberg. 0:09:51.080 --> 0:09:53.760 Do you have something about the environment? Climate change and all 0:09:53.760 --> 0:09:55.439 the work. We're just going to say that if you 0:09:55.520 --> 0:09:57.560 missed any of it, check it out on our podcast 0:09:57.559 --> 0:09:58.480 week This is Blooper. 0:10:01.000 --> 0:10:04.520 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us 0:10:04.559 --> 0:10:07.800 live weekday afternoons from two to five pm Easter. Listen 0:10:07.840 --> 0:10:10.000 on Apple car Play and then brought auto with a 0:10:10.040 --> 0:10:15.400 Bloomberg Business app, or watch us live on YouTube. 0:10:14.600 --> 0:10:16.880 Tim Another big thing lawmakers will have to think about 0:10:17.040 --> 0:10:19.400 is climate disinformation. In fact, we all have to think 0:10:19.440 --> 0:10:21.640 about it. Just do a Google search or ask chat 0:10:21.640 --> 0:10:24.280 GPT and lots of entries pop up from around the 0:10:24.320 --> 0:10:26.440 globe and for the last few years, and not all 0:10:26.520 --> 0:10:28.319 of it when it comes to the climate is correct. 0:10:28.400 --> 0:10:28.760 That's right. 0:10:28.800 --> 0:10:31.760 In the World Economic Forums Global Risks Report twenty twenty 0:10:31.760 --> 0:10:35.760 four ranked misinformation and disinformation as the biggest short term 0:10:35.840 --> 0:10:39.000 risk to human society, and extreme weather events is the 0:10:39.080 --> 0:10:42.240 top long term risk, which implies that obscuring the facts 0:10:42.280 --> 0:10:45.960 about climate change can be extremely harmful. This is compounded 0:10:46.000 --> 0:10:49.440 by false information being significantly more likely to be reshared 0:10:49.480 --> 0:10:51.360 than the truth on social media platforms. 0:10:51.400 --> 0:10:53.680 Our next guest is working to get out correct information 0:10:53.720 --> 0:10:57.000 on climate change. Lower Hesse Fischer is Program director for 0:10:57.040 --> 0:10:59.160 the MIT Climate Engagement Program. 0:10:59.240 --> 0:11:01.720 Now, there's a lot As you mentioned, when you Google 0:11:01.760 --> 0:11:04.120 climate change, you get a lot of confusing information, and 0:11:04.160 --> 0:11:07.320 we understand that climate change is hard to understand. So 0:11:07.360 --> 0:11:09.640 what we do at MIT is we help people get smart, 0:11:09.760 --> 0:11:13.960 quick about climate change. You go online and you not 0:11:14.040 --> 0:11:16.160 only see the misinformation, but also a lot of the 0:11:16.240 --> 0:11:19.520 partisan the advocacy that's happening. Is hard to know what 0:11:19.600 --> 0:11:23.480 to believe and who to trust, So we provide non partisan, 0:11:23.840 --> 0:11:28.079 science based, easy to understand explainers about climate change, as 0:11:28.080 --> 0:11:29.959 well as answers to readers questions, how do you know 0:11:30.000 --> 0:11:31.040 which scientists to trust? 0:11:31.040 --> 0:11:31.240 Though? 0:11:32.320 --> 0:11:35.960 Well, we fact check everything that we publish, so we 0:11:36.000 --> 0:11:38.680 make sure that we're not just putting out something that 0:11:38.679 --> 0:11:41.160 we don't understand or we understand ourselves, that we're really 0:11:41.200 --> 0:11:44.079 doing our due diligence inside of this, and we primarily 0:11:44.160 --> 0:11:47.679 interview MIT faculty who are trusted. 0:11:47.280 --> 0:11:48.040 At the top of the game. 0:11:48.280 --> 0:11:50.640 Okay, but it's getting a lot better than it used 0:11:50.640 --> 0:11:54.240 to be. Here's some data from a survey recently have 0:11:54.280 --> 0:11:56.320 found that those who believe climate change is happening out 0:11:56.400 --> 0:11:57.679 numbered those who don't. 0:11:57.760 --> 0:11:58.640 Five to one. 0:11:58.840 --> 0:12:01.400 Over half of the surveys just been said they understand 0:12:01.400 --> 0:12:04.640 climate change is mostly caused by humans, And if you 0:12:04.640 --> 0:12:06.880 look at it from just a few years ago in 0:12:06.880 --> 0:12:10.480 twenty eleven, that group survey said that fifty one percent 0:12:10.520 --> 0:12:12.719 said Americans would ask scientists whether climate change was a 0:12:12.760 --> 0:12:15.360 hoax compared to thirty nine percent in twenty twenty three. 0:12:15.559 --> 0:12:17.280 I mean, things are really going in the right direction. 0:12:17.440 --> 0:12:20.080 Listen to these are good news trends. But that's not 0:12:20.280 --> 0:12:22.920 the issue anymore. Yes, we have people that we still 0:12:22.920 --> 0:12:25.319 need to convince that climate change is happening in human calls, 0:12:25.440 --> 0:12:28.840 but now people have questions. There's this growing climate curious 0:12:28.880 --> 0:12:31.120 audience that are like, Okay, I hear about all these 0:12:31.160 --> 0:12:34.520 bad things about wind turbines and solar panels, Are those true? 0:12:34.679 --> 0:12:36.800 How do I think about carbon capture or planning? 0:12:36.960 --> 0:12:40.160 Sometimes you have presidential candidates talking about partage whatever that's. 0:12:40.040 --> 0:12:41.800 True, And so people are going to be googling and 0:12:41.800 --> 0:12:43.360 fact checking. We want to make sure that they get 0:12:43.360 --> 0:12:46.559 the right information and actually the content that we're putting 0:12:46.559 --> 0:12:48.880 at climate dot mit dot edu is one of the 0:12:49.040 --> 0:12:52.480 top research sites coming up on Google search terms. 0:12:52.520 --> 0:12:54.880 More I'm what are like, what's some of the top 0:12:54.960 --> 0:12:55.760 questions that people? 0:12:55.840 --> 0:12:58.440 Oh, yes, it's a lot of fun actually to see. 0:12:58.440 --> 0:13:01.240 We get really wonky science questions about like what's happening 0:13:01.240 --> 0:13:01.640 and why. 0:13:02.000 --> 0:13:03.480 We get a lot of questions. 0:13:03.160 --> 0:13:07.120 About EV's and batteries, the environmental impact of evs. One 0:13:07.160 --> 0:13:09.319 of our favorite ones that we get is about trees, 0:13:09.520 --> 0:13:11.640 planting trees. Why can't we just plant trees as a 0:13:11.640 --> 0:13:14.600 climate solution. Well, what we do is we say, okay, well, 0:13:14.640 --> 0:13:16.880 let's look at what would it take to actually plant 0:13:16.920 --> 0:13:19.400 trees to offset our carbon emissions in the United States. 0:13:19.800 --> 0:13:22.280 When we walk through that, we realize we're not talking 0:13:22.320 --> 0:13:26.560 about planting trees. We're talking about planning forests. In order 0:13:26.559 --> 0:13:29.480 to offset one year of the US's carbon emissions would 0:13:29.520 --> 0:13:32.280 take a forest the size of New Mexico, and we 0:13:32.320 --> 0:13:35.640 need to build that forest every single year to offset 0:13:35.720 --> 0:13:37.680 US emissions. I mean, when you start looking at it 0:13:37.679 --> 0:13:39.800 from that perspective, you can get a sense of Okay, 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:41.240 this is not really the right solution here. 0:13:41.440 --> 0:13:43.080 Well what is the right solution? Because I'll be honest, 0:13:43.080 --> 0:13:45.480 that does not sound great. No, doesn't sound like we're 0:13:45.480 --> 0:13:46.320 moving in the right direction. 0:13:46.360 --> 0:13:48.920 Well, we need to The term is decarbonized, right, we 0:13:48.960 --> 0:13:51.000 need to stop putting in more carbon into. 0:13:50.840 --> 0:13:53.040 The atmosphere than they can take care. How is it 0:13:53.040 --> 0:13:54.880 it's about stop producing carbon? 0:13:55.040 --> 0:13:55.240 Well? 0:13:55.720 --> 0:13:56.320 There is it. 0:13:56.400 --> 0:13:58.439 Well, okay, we can have a long conversation about the 0:13:58.480 --> 0:14:00.679 carbon cycle, and I'm sure it will be very intellectually 0:14:00.679 --> 0:14:04.040 interesting for everybody, But there are natural pulls from the 0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:06.920 atmosphere that the Earth does. We need to accelerate some 0:14:07.040 --> 0:14:09.240 of those in order to pull out the carbon that's 0:14:09.240 --> 0:14:10.160 already up there. 0:14:10.280 --> 0:14:12.040 But we also need to stop putting. 0:14:11.720 --> 0:14:13.960 Stuff up there, because it's been accumulating and it's going 0:14:14.000 --> 0:14:16.400 to keep accumulating if we can't take it out fast enough. 0:14:16.720 --> 0:14:19.520 There's this great analogy I like using called the toolbox. 0:14:20.320 --> 0:14:22.560 We have an energy toolbox of solutions. 0:14:22.680 --> 0:14:22.880 Right. 0:14:22.960 --> 0:14:25.720 We have wind, we have solar, we have nuclear, And 0:14:25.840 --> 0:14:28.080 I'm kind of obsessed with this term called nuclear is 0:14:28.080 --> 0:14:28.560 part of it. 0:14:28.760 --> 0:14:33.280 Nuclear is part of it. We are increasingly having conversations 0:14:33.320 --> 0:14:33.840 about it. 0:14:33.720 --> 0:14:34.440 And you should be. 0:14:34.600 --> 0:14:38.880 So there's this concept of technological tribalism. There are people 0:14:38.920 --> 0:14:42.400 who are all wind, all solar, forget everything else. Then 0:14:42.400 --> 0:14:45.560 there are people who are all carbon capture, forget about wind. Well, 0:14:45.600 --> 0:14:47.680 we need to get beyond all of that, right, because 0:14:47.720 --> 0:14:50.560 each of these technologies have their strengths and have their weaknesses, 0:14:50.560 --> 0:14:52.040 and we need to have an honest conversation about that. 0:14:52.160 --> 0:14:53.760 Just care what do the solar people do at night? 0:14:53.920 --> 0:14:55.720 Just out of curiosity? Well, I mean do they have 0:14:55.880 --> 0:14:57.120 big batteries everywhere? 0:14:57.200 --> 0:14:57.440 Yes? 0:14:57.520 --> 0:14:59.640 I mean energy storage is a big part of the 0:15:01.000 --> 0:15:02.840 right now, you can only have about thirty percent of 0:15:02.880 --> 0:15:05.480 wind and solar on the grid in order to kind 0:15:05.480 --> 0:15:07.080 of keep the grid running and be reliable. 0:15:07.320 --> 0:15:08.280 We really need to get. 0:15:08.120 --> 0:15:10.520 Beyond that and get to energy storage different kinds of 0:15:10.520 --> 0:15:11.480 battery technologies. 0:15:11.520 --> 0:15:13.560 Okay, so let's talk about the battery technology because I 0:15:13.560 --> 0:15:15.720 think one thing that keeps coming up over and over 0:15:15.760 --> 0:15:18.880 again is the idea that the batteries have rare earth 0:15:18.960 --> 0:15:24.120 materials in them. They are built with materials that have 0:15:24.240 --> 0:15:27.440 questionable labor practices. In some instances, you're digging into the 0:15:27.480 --> 0:15:29.320 earth to use these things. What do you do when 0:15:29.360 --> 0:15:32.040 they're dead and they where do you put them? How 0:15:32.040 --> 0:15:33.120 do you store them? 0:15:33.240 --> 0:15:35.840 It's not perfect, it's not perfect, but it's also not 0:15:35.920 --> 0:15:39.320 a new problem. We've been dealing with this with diamonds. 0:15:39.360 --> 0:15:41.360 We've been dealing this with lithium that goes into our 0:15:41.360 --> 0:15:43.720 computers and our cell phones. I mean, this is a 0:15:43.760 --> 0:15:46.280 growing industry. But also when we look at the history 0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:49.080 of coal mining and the dangers that come with coal 0:15:49.120 --> 0:15:51.800 mining and all the other impacts of that. I'm not 0:15:51.840 --> 0:15:54.640 trying to diminish the impact. It's really important. That's why 0:15:54.680 --> 0:15:57.000 I need to have these kinds of honest conversations and 0:15:57.040 --> 0:15:59.600 not turn aside because we favor one technology or the 0:15:59.600 --> 0:16:01.920 other because our political party tells us that we should. 0:16:02.280 --> 0:16:06.200 Is the toolbox toolkit in terms of renewables complete at 0:16:06.200 --> 0:16:08.480 this point. You talk solar, you talk win, you talk nuclear. 0:16:08.840 --> 0:16:10.240 Is there more that we need? 0:16:10.360 --> 0:16:12.800 There are some applications where carbon capture is part of 0:16:12.840 --> 0:16:15.160 the equation, right There are some industries that are hard 0:16:15.200 --> 0:16:18.920 to decarbonize. We're not saying carbon capture. So when you're emitting, 0:16:18.920 --> 0:16:21.760 when you're burning fossil fuels, capturing that carbon, putting it 0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:24.640 under the ground, turning into products. Listen, we're not there 0:16:24.680 --> 0:16:28.240 with that technology. It solution it is, it does work, 0:16:28.280 --> 0:16:29.480 but it's not a climate solution. 0:16:29.600 --> 0:16:31.800 Is it a solution because it's not at scale? Or 0:16:31.840 --> 0:16:33.200 is it because it's so expensive to do? 0:16:33.360 --> 0:16:35.600 Because someone's expensive to do. I mean we're at very 0:16:35.640 --> 0:16:38.000 high levels of efficiency when it comes to carbon capture, 0:16:38.080 --> 0:16:40.840 it's still way too expensive and so are batteries right now. 0:16:41.000 --> 0:16:42.840 So when I talk about the toolboxes, there might be 0:16:42.880 --> 0:16:46.520 a small, very important application like kind of last mile 0:16:46.680 --> 0:16:51.160 of to carbonization for carbon capture. But yeah, wind, solar, nuclear, So. 0:16:51.160 --> 0:16:52.760 We have that constant flow of electricity. 0:16:52.760 --> 0:16:53.640 These are very important. 0:16:53.720 --> 0:16:56.720 A tiny battery for an electric bike h eight hundred dollars. 0:16:57.320 --> 0:16:58.240 I mean, tiny batter. 0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:02.600 Are not there yet, but there's lots of innovation that's 0:17:02.640 --> 0:17:03.640 happening in this areas. 0:17:03.760 --> 0:17:05.159 I have a question, and I would go to your 0:17:05.160 --> 0:17:06.840 platform and say, is it too late? 0:17:07.480 --> 0:17:10.960 Oh, my goodness, it is not. So people really don't 0:17:11.000 --> 0:17:12.919 understand the momentum that is building. 0:17:12.920 --> 0:17:14.320 And through climate dot MIT. 0:17:14.200 --> 0:17:16.640 Dot edu, we really try to share all the good 0:17:16.640 --> 0:17:18.399 news stories that are happening in this area. 0:17:19.000 --> 0:17:21.760 But is it because you're right too, because it is 0:17:21.800 --> 0:17:24.560 a much more balanced and nuanced story, or is it 0:17:24.760 --> 0:17:27.240 you know what I'm saying. It's gotten hotter earth and 0:17:27.280 --> 0:17:27.920 there's some things. 0:17:28.000 --> 0:17:28.639 So there are. 0:17:28.480 --> 0:17:32.520 Climate impacts that are scary and happening, and the progress 0:17:32.560 --> 0:17:35.720 towards actually solving this problem is happening. 0:17:35.800 --> 0:17:37.000 The momentum is there. 0:17:37.280 --> 0:17:40.719 We are decarbonizing faster than the economy is growing, so 0:17:40.720 --> 0:17:43.239 there's a decoupling of the growth of the economy and 0:17:43.240 --> 0:17:47.200 how much we're reducing emissions. Wind and solar have never 0:17:47.280 --> 0:17:50.800 been cheaper, of course, I mean China built more solar 0:17:50.840 --> 0:17:53.480 in the last year than US has ever built in 0:17:53.520 --> 0:17:54.720 the history China. 0:17:54.920 --> 0:17:58.159 Yeah, so businesses really need to get like. 0:17:58.240 --> 0:18:00.320 This is not a Our business is leading the way 0:18:00.320 --> 0:18:02.040 more than government, just real quickly. 0:18:01.760 --> 0:18:04.080 Well on some issues and some issues not so much. 0:18:04.119 --> 0:18:06.960 I mean it's a trend. It's a fast moving train, 0:18:07.040 --> 0:18:08.639 and we need to get up. What's your bringing in 0:18:08.680 --> 0:18:09.240 people on board? 0:18:09.240 --> 0:18:11.200 What's the platform again? Where can we find? Climate dot 0:18:11.280 --> 0:18:12.119 Mit dot edu. 0:18:12.119 --> 0:18:13.960 We run a podcast where we talk about all these 0:18:14.000 --> 0:18:17.919 things in fifteen minute easy to understand segments called til Climate. 0:18:17.960 --> 0:18:19.160 We'd love for your folks to listen. 0:18:19.440 --> 0:18:20.720 Really good stuff today. 0:18:20.760 --> 0:18:22.320 I learned climate. That's what it stands for. 0:18:22.600 --> 0:18:24.919 It's really pretty cool. Staple stuff or thanks so much 0:18:24.920 --> 0:18:27.600 about Laura hesse Fischer, program director of the MIT Climate 0:18:27.640 --> 0:18:30.560 Engagement Program. On site here at the Bloomberg Green Festival 0:18:30.600 --> 0:18:31.280 in Seattle. 0:18:35.480 --> 0:18:39.320 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Listen live 0:18:39.440 --> 0:18:42.239 each weekday starting at two pm Eastern on Apple car 0:18:42.359 --> 0:18:45.320 Play and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You 0:18:45.359 --> 0:18:48.639 can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship 0:18:48.680 --> 0:18:52.520 New York station, just Say Alexa Play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 0:18:52.800 --> 0:18:53.280 More of our. 0:18:53.200 --> 0:18:56.000 Broadcast from the Bloomberg Green Festival in Seattle. Washington this 0:18:56.040 --> 0:18:58.600 past week and Tim, it's new coincidence that we're in 0:18:58.600 --> 0:19:01.160 this city. We're here because of this these impressive legacy 0:19:01.200 --> 0:19:03.320 of environmental leadership. We had a lot to talk about. 0:19:03.400 --> 0:19:06.040 Yes, Seattle has been a focus on building a clean 0:19:06.160 --> 0:19:09.600 energy economy and investing in healthy, well connected communities, and 0:19:09.680 --> 0:19:12.119 yet like other cities in the nation, its struggled to 0:19:12.119 --> 0:19:14.480 come back after the pandemic. For his take on the 0:19:14.560 --> 0:19:17.080 role that cities play in climate change and green policies, 0:19:17.400 --> 0:19:19.280 we spoke with Seattle Mayor Bruce Harral. 0:19:19.520 --> 0:19:21.840 You've heard the cliche now mayors get things done, and 0:19:22.200 --> 0:19:25.080 it's more than a cliche. Is actually how we are 0:19:25.119 --> 0:19:29.960 going to transform our climate battles. I believe that we 0:19:30.080 --> 0:19:32.560 are what we work with. For example, in our building 0:19:32.560 --> 0:19:36.320 emissions performance standard and legislation that I proposed in the past, 0:19:36.760 --> 0:19:39.320 we look at our buildings which is a high polluter, 0:19:39.800 --> 0:19:42.320 and we said we will reduce our carbon emissions by 0:19:42.320 --> 0:19:45.280 twenty seven percent by twenty thirty. And this is at 0:19:45.280 --> 0:19:47.800 the same time we're trying to get better foot traffic down. 0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:51.440 There's supporting small businesses. Amazon is based here obviously, and 0:19:51.840 --> 0:19:54.240 the e commerce has changed. Lying habbts and where people 0:19:54.400 --> 0:19:57.359 go and live and play, and so at the same time, 0:19:57.600 --> 0:20:00.280 that is when you demonstrate to your values. And so 0:20:00.359 --> 0:20:03.560 if we believe that this war against climate change is real, 0:20:03.640 --> 0:20:06.040 as we do, then this is the time to start 0:20:06.119 --> 0:20:10.040 staking out our plate. And so I think cities are 0:20:10.119 --> 0:20:12.639 best position to this. And I said earlier in the panel, 0:20:12.680 --> 0:20:14.360 you know, I have one of the greenest I think, 0:20:14.440 --> 0:20:17.920 the greenest governor and through Jay Insley in the country, 0:20:18.000 --> 0:20:20.640 and so we have a good ecosystem of climate warriors. 0:20:20.640 --> 0:20:24.760 That helps, right and absolutely it helps, and so so on. 0:20:24.920 --> 0:20:27.840 From a state law perspective, they could do, they could 0:20:27.880 --> 0:20:31.320 pass policy that make sure we're all working in unison. 0:20:31.000 --> 0:20:31.600 With each other. 0:20:33.680 --> 0:20:36.560 But cities have the flexibility to go even further. And 0:20:36.600 --> 0:20:37.800 so that's what we try to do. 0:20:37.840 --> 0:20:38.600 In everything that we do. 0:20:38.680 --> 0:20:41.920 I you know, transportation, of course, you know, we're doing 0:20:41.960 --> 0:20:45.719 some incredible things in transportation. So I think the cities 0:20:45.720 --> 0:20:47.280 are the best position to get it done. 0:20:47.359 --> 0:20:48.560 Let's talk about transportation. 0:20:49.000 --> 0:20:51.160 In the two days I've been here, I've taken the bus, 0:20:51.400 --> 0:20:52.920 the light rail, the monorail. 0:20:53.240 --> 0:20:54.160 It's been pretty great. 0:20:54.840 --> 0:20:56.720 But this is still a city where a lot of 0:20:56.760 --> 0:20:58.600 people say they need a car. 0:20:59.200 --> 0:21:00.000 How do you how do you change. 0:21:00.960 --> 0:21:04.040 So I proposed a one point five to five billion 0:21:04.119 --> 0:21:06.960 dollar leve a translation level to look at our whole ecosystem. 0:21:07.480 --> 0:21:10.440 And it's all about choice. And you know, cars are 0:21:10.440 --> 0:21:13.320 getting smaller and they're becoming electrified, and so we don't 0:21:13.320 --> 0:21:16.000 have an anti car campaign which a lot of cars 0:21:16.040 --> 0:21:18.240 are getting bigger, a lot of cars are getting well, yeah, 0:21:18.240 --> 0:21:22.959 the the US, the four to the truck is still yeah. 0:21:23.600 --> 0:21:28.400 So you know, if your point is, we're still car dependent. 0:21:28.480 --> 0:21:32.199 So far, we're looking at decades and decades of a 0:21:32.280 --> 0:21:34.800 culture in a country that's built out of Michigan and 0:21:34.840 --> 0:21:37.800 looking at what GM and other companies have built. You know, 0:21:38.080 --> 0:21:43.560 these are legacy organizations. So there's an ecosystem. And I 0:21:43.600 --> 0:21:48.000 don't pit cars against bikes. There's literally hundreds of millions 0:21:48.040 --> 0:21:50.080 of dollars in here for everyone. In terms of building 0:21:50.240 --> 0:21:54.640 protected bike lanes. A person eighty five years old may 0:21:54.720 --> 0:21:58.240 not ride a bike. We lead with transit, we lead 0:21:58.280 --> 0:22:00.040 with safety, we lead with equity. So I think I 0:22:00.080 --> 0:22:04.400 think here in Seattle we're demonstrating this car versus bikes war, 0:22:04.520 --> 0:22:06.320 if you will, that we do it in a very 0:22:06.400 --> 0:22:09.600 civilized way, realizing that there still may be single modes 0:22:09.640 --> 0:22:13.359 of transportation i e. Cars, they could get smaller and 0:22:13.359 --> 0:22:16.680 they're electrified. But this fight against climate change should be 0:22:16.720 --> 0:22:20.480 a unifying element. I talked openly about race, I talk 0:22:20.600 --> 0:22:24.240 openly about socioeconomic differences. When people are hungry and you're 0:22:24.240 --> 0:22:26.879 talking about saving the planet, can you get their attention? 0:22:28.160 --> 0:22:32.320 You can when you change the narrative for it being 0:22:32.320 --> 0:22:36.520 a unifying and uplifting fight against climate change. And that's 0:22:36.560 --> 0:22:38.560 working here in Seattle or horl Let me. 0:22:38.520 --> 0:22:40.560 Ask you about that, because as a mayor, you've got 0:22:40.600 --> 0:22:42.400 to look at all of your citizens. And I too 0:22:42.440 --> 0:22:44.600 have walked around the city. I've walked down Pike Street. 0:22:45.280 --> 0:22:47.960 Your city's not alone in terms of dealing with homeless, 0:22:48.359 --> 0:22:50.480 a large homeless community. We see it certainly in New 0:22:50.560 --> 0:22:54.640 York City. Back home, I also think about office occupancies 0:22:54.720 --> 0:22:58.000 right people are staying home, they're working from home. Remote 0:22:58.000 --> 0:23:01.040 work is still a thing post pandemic. Like New York 0:23:01.080 --> 0:23:03.359 and some other major cities, you have a lot of 0:23:03.400 --> 0:23:06.320 your office buildings that are vacant. How do you balance 0:23:06.720 --> 0:23:09.080 climate I mean, that's our future, but how do you 0:23:09.119 --> 0:23:12.600 focus it against all of that too? That that's pretty challenging. 0:23:12.760 --> 0:23:15.440 It is very challenging. So the first question I think 0:23:15.480 --> 0:23:18.600 we try to answer is to get people downtown. That example, 0:23:18.920 --> 0:23:23.200 if they're working from home, what drives people to downtown actively? 0:23:23.200 --> 0:23:25.240 There are certain things you cannot get through ecommerce, and 0:23:25.280 --> 0:23:27.840 again we're the home to Amazon, so we use forty commerce. 0:23:28.400 --> 0:23:32.000 You can't get a beautiful art show or beautiful song, 0:23:33.160 --> 0:23:36.440 or you can't buy that, and so we activate areas. 0:23:36.760 --> 0:23:40.720 You can't get daycare online or to speak, and so 0:23:40.760 --> 0:23:44.200 we're looking at the new downtown if you will. Two 0:23:44.240 --> 0:23:47.400 things is it has to be activated that meets people's needs. 0:23:47.440 --> 0:23:49.520 And so you have a workforce that have young children, 0:23:49.800 --> 0:23:53.320 you should have daycare services, affordable daycare service, and close proximity. 0:23:53.320 --> 0:23:55.680 People are very attached to their pets, so I asked 0:23:55.680 --> 0:23:57.920 the question, how many dog parts do we put around 0:23:57.920 --> 0:24:00.639 certain areas because with COVID they got used to being 0:24:00.680 --> 0:24:03.720 around their pet all day. These are real examples of 0:24:03.760 --> 0:24:06.520 how you get activated downtown. More people are going to 0:24:06.560 --> 0:24:08.640 live downtown. I have about one hundred thousand people living. 0:24:08.440 --> 0:24:10.639 Downtown, right, what was it before the pandemic? 0:24:11.080 --> 0:24:13.800 Oh, that never has been pretty consistent. These are residents. 0:24:13.840 --> 0:24:16.280 But what I did was I proposed the legislation to 0:24:16.320 --> 0:24:20.879 convert office buildings to residential buildings, acceleration of permits, a 0:24:20.920 --> 0:24:23.880 lot of incentives to do that because we think more 0:24:23.920 --> 0:24:27.679 people will live downtown. What's happening in this country with 0:24:27.840 --> 0:24:32.639 the introduction of fentan illinoisio. It is killing our country. 0:24:32.720 --> 0:24:35.119 It is a health issue. I have zero desire just 0:24:35.160 --> 0:24:36.600 to arrest them when they go in jail, to come 0:24:36.640 --> 0:24:38.600 right back and go right back to the spot I 0:24:38.680 --> 0:24:41.520 have to make arrest. Of course we will make arrest, 0:24:41.560 --> 0:24:44.200 and we are making arrest based on someone presents a 0:24:44.320 --> 0:24:47.520 threat of arm. The health system in our country is 0:24:47.560 --> 0:24:50.159 such a I don't have control over that. Most cities do, 0:24:50.240 --> 0:24:52.280 not a few cities. I think birthday has our own 0:24:52.440 --> 0:24:55.080 health department is should usually run by what's called the 0:24:55.160 --> 0:24:57.880 continuum of care, which is a county, so money goes 0:24:57.920 --> 0:25:01.159 to the county. What COVID showed us is that cities 0:25:01.160 --> 0:25:03.359 could be more nimal. Money's went directly to the cities 0:25:03.400 --> 0:25:05.440 and they could get things done. So right now there's 0:25:05.480 --> 0:25:09.199 a mini mayors including myself, looking at how do we 0:25:09.240 --> 0:25:13.200 restructure the health strategies in our cities because you're right, 0:25:13.480 --> 0:25:15.399 people are dying there. You know you could buy a 0:25:15.480 --> 0:25:18.399 fentanyl pill for fifty cents and they're committing crimes. Is 0:25:18.440 --> 0:25:21.720 worth the habit and so right now, I mean we've recovered, 0:25:22.080 --> 0:25:24.199 we've been doing some incredible work getting these people off 0:25:24.240 --> 0:25:28.280 the streets. Now we have to openly, I think, redesign 0:25:28.320 --> 0:25:31.600 the system, and we have to We're a rich city. 0:25:31.720 --> 0:25:34.679 Let's just be we're one of the wealthiest per capital cities. 0:25:34.840 --> 0:25:36.920 And when you don't have the proper safeguards for people 0:25:36.960 --> 0:25:38.680 falling through the cracks, that's. 0:25:38.440 --> 0:25:39.000 What they will do. 0:25:39.040 --> 0:25:40.639 And that's what you're seeing is people that could not 0:25:41.200 --> 0:25:44.639 in a meritocracy, could not find their way to success, 0:25:44.920 --> 0:25:46.960 and there could be a host of issues they're dealing with, 0:25:47.000 --> 0:25:49.720 whether it's mental illness and who knows what the challenges are. 0:25:50.000 --> 0:25:53.159 So we're going upstream. We now invest in pre K 0:25:53.320 --> 0:25:55.480 brain development between zero and four. We're looking at the 0:25:55.480 --> 0:25:57.680 middle schools and the high schools, trying to find the triggers. 0:25:58.320 --> 0:26:01.800 But what you're seeing out here is again a successful city, 0:26:01.880 --> 0:26:05.000 people falling through the cracks in a broken down health system, 0:26:05.040 --> 0:26:07.480 and we're trying to implode that right now to get 0:26:07.480 --> 0:26:08.560 them the help they need and get. 0:26:08.440 --> 0:26:10.080 Them all So if you would change one more thing 0:26:10.119 --> 0:26:12.200 that you think would get them off the streets. 0:26:12.280 --> 0:26:15.199 What would it be, Well, I'd like to have the 0:26:15.280 --> 0:26:18.320 ability to control the health dollars to get them treatment. 0:26:18.680 --> 0:26:21.560 They are sick, and you don't arrest a sick person, 0:26:21.640 --> 0:26:24.560 You treat them, drink them healthy, and realizing they are 0:26:24.680 --> 0:26:26.840 bad people as well, so we're not afraid to make 0:26:26.920 --> 0:26:29.119 arrest and get the bad people off the streets. So 0:26:29.160 --> 0:26:30.920 if I had one thing to do, would be too. 0:26:31.320 --> 0:26:33.440 And we're working on this is to redesign the health 0:26:33.480 --> 0:26:35.879 strategies on these PBC dying on the streets. 0:26:35.920 --> 0:26:36.239 You know what. 0:26:36.280 --> 0:26:38.720 Housing is also part of this conversation. It's part of 0:26:38.720 --> 0:26:41.560 the sustainability conversation. It's part of the green conversation. The 0:26:41.640 --> 0:26:44.560 cost of housing here is astronomical, like in many parts 0:26:44.800 --> 0:26:45.480 of the country. 0:26:45.840 --> 0:26:46.920 What are you doing in terms. 0:26:46.760 --> 0:26:50.639 Of encouraging developers, working with developers to build affordable housing 0:26:50.880 --> 0:26:52.000 to house some of these folks. 0:26:52.320 --> 0:26:56.080 Yeah, so I passed the largest housing levee last year 0:26:56.280 --> 0:26:58.960 in our country's history, is nine hundred and seventy million dollars. 0:26:59.000 --> 0:27:01.240 And in that it's all about affordable housing. Is making 0:27:01.280 --> 0:27:04.280 sure the teacher, the barista, the healthcare worker can live 0:27:04.320 --> 0:27:08.439 in the city. We create incentives throughout a tax and centers, 0:27:08.480 --> 0:27:10.879 if you will, to make sure that we reached you know, 0:27:10.960 --> 0:27:14.160 thirty fifty sixty percent of area median income for people 0:27:14.160 --> 0:27:16.159 to live right here in the city. The fact of 0:27:16.160 --> 0:27:18.680 the matter is is, again we are a rapidly growing city. 0:27:18.760 --> 0:27:22.240 I have wealthy people moving here. Supply and demand dictates 0:27:22.880 --> 0:27:27.679 housing prices. So so my relationship with other cities becomes 0:27:27.720 --> 0:27:30.480 critical as well, because I want people to be sheltered 0:27:30.720 --> 0:27:31.840 preferably in Seattle. 0:27:31.840 --> 0:27:33.800 But I have to realize the economics and such that 0:27:33.800 --> 0:27:36.639 it makes a look tough here. You know, the meeting 0:27:36.720 --> 0:27:39.560 house being nine hundred thousand to a million. You know, 0:27:39.960 --> 0:27:42.640 my wife and have three children, and when I look 0:27:42.640 --> 0:27:44.960 at and one just got married three weeks ago. So 0:27:45.160 --> 0:27:46.760 we're in their house highting and thinking, a wow, you 0:27:46.760 --> 0:27:48.320 got to have to come up with one hundred thousand 0:27:48.359 --> 0:27:50.720 dollars make a down payment here, and so locking mom 0:27:50.720 --> 0:27:53.240 and dad for that congratulations. 0:27:53.280 --> 0:27:54.600 So it's a real problem. 0:27:55.080 --> 0:27:57.320 So we get as creative as possible. You know, we 0:27:57.359 --> 0:28:00.639 talk about the terms called a podments or micro units. 0:28:01.000 --> 0:28:05.280 We relax our standards for our detached dwelling units and 0:28:05.400 --> 0:28:09.960 das outos attached, detached to look at single families owning 0:28:10.040 --> 0:28:12.960 building more so, we're being as creative as possible to 0:28:13.040 --> 0:28:15.760 make it affordable. But we are going and supply and demand. 0:28:15.880 --> 0:28:16.919 That's just the reality of it. 0:28:17.080 --> 0:28:19.720 What do you make of kind of citizen dissatisfaction with 0:28:19.800 --> 0:28:22.399 the country you see applying out as we make our 0:28:22.440 --> 0:28:25.000 way to the November presidential elections. Right, we talked about 0:28:25.040 --> 0:28:28.040 the economy doing okay, although we see some softness in 0:28:28.040 --> 0:28:30.520 the labor market. I'm continuing, but what do you make 0:28:30.560 --> 0:28:34.280 of that disconnect that maybe we're not realizing some of 0:28:34.320 --> 0:28:35.879 the struggles of our citizens. 0:28:36.600 --> 0:28:39.680 So this is what concerns me. And then in the 0:28:39.720 --> 0:28:43.040 context of climate change, is that our younger generation, they 0:28:43.120 --> 0:28:46.600 understand the needs to protect our planet, they are getting 0:28:46.800 --> 0:28:50.640 dissatisfied when they see potential leaders that they somewhat feel 0:28:50.680 --> 0:28:54.960 like there's a disconnect. And you know, I've won four 0:28:55.000 --> 0:28:57.360 elections in the city. I know how to debate. One 0:28:57.400 --> 0:28:59.920 thing I never do. I never just denigrate my opponent. 0:29:00.040 --> 0:29:02.640 I just figure they're they're they're applying for the same 0:29:02.720 --> 0:29:03.800 job I'm applying for. 0:29:04.000 --> 0:29:06.360 This is what I have to offer. They have another brand, 0:29:06.360 --> 0:29:09.160 that's fine, But what you're seeing is this debate that 0:29:09.240 --> 0:29:11.880 I think and I'm not even taking signs, I think 0:29:11.880 --> 0:29:14.200 that it's such a turn off for the younger generation, 0:29:14.360 --> 0:29:17.480 Like I forget, forget those two guys. I'm gonna I'm 0:29:17.480 --> 0:29:20.160 going to disengage. That will hurt our country. 0:29:20.200 --> 0:29:20.360 Here. 0:29:21.520 --> 0:29:23.840 What I want to see is one person says, you 0:29:23.880 --> 0:29:26.760 know what, I respect your opinion, but this is what 0:29:26.800 --> 0:29:29.360 I'm going to do for the for this this country, 0:29:29.600 --> 0:29:33.120 and we're losing that. So leaders like myself elected leaders, 0:29:33.360 --> 0:29:36.360 we have to be louder than that radioactivity that we 0:29:36.440 --> 0:29:39.960 see the younger generation being so turned off. I talked 0:29:39.960 --> 0:29:41.880 to all three of our kids about this that that. 0:29:41.920 --> 0:29:42.840 Scares me well. 0:29:42.880 --> 0:29:44.880 And you wonder about the younger generation. Maybe they're looking 0:29:44.920 --> 0:29:48.760 for a younger candidate right to vote for like going forward. 0:29:49.160 --> 0:29:51.120 Since I'm not part of that generation, I won't speak 0:29:51.160 --> 0:29:52.120 for them. 0:29:52.480 --> 0:29:54.480 Listen, Thank you for speaking though to us today. We 0:29:54.520 --> 0:29:56.240 really appreciate it. Thank you, really appreciate it. 0:29:56.240 --> 0:29:58.360 Thank you, Mary, good to see you. Thank you. 0:29:58.360 --> 0:30:01.840 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us 0:30:01.920 --> 0:30:05.160 live weekday afternoons from two to five pm. Easter Listen 0:30:05.240 --> 0:30:07.880 on Apple car Play and andnbroud Auto with a Bloomberg 0:30:07.920 --> 0:30:11.080 Business app or watch us live on YouTube. 0:30:12.200 --> 0:30:14.720 From a city's climate policies to the different ways we 0:30:14.800 --> 0:30:18.440 travel to these cities, everything has an impact on environmental 0:30:18.440 --> 0:30:20.120 sustainability and on our climate. 0:30:20.240 --> 0:30:23.320 An estimate at eleven percent of global greenhouse gas emissions 0:30:23.320 --> 0:30:26.000 are due to tourism, and that's predicted to double by 0:30:26.040 --> 0:30:29.080 twenty fifty. It's the year that scientists have forecast does 0:30:29.120 --> 0:30:32.560 the tipping point for all sorts of ecological disasters. So 0:30:32.560 --> 0:30:34.840 how can tourism fix its emissions problem? 0:30:34.920 --> 0:30:36.960 That's where Ryan Spies comes in. He is the managing 0:30:37.040 --> 0:30:40.240 director of sustainability at Alaska Airlines. He was at the 0:30:40.280 --> 0:30:43.200 festival to talk about sustainable aviation fuel. 0:30:43.400 --> 0:30:47.560 So for sustainable aviation fuel is yeah, it can be 0:30:47.600 --> 0:30:49.760 almost like a miracle drug, but that doesn't exist in 0:30:49.800 --> 0:30:53.480 any quantities that we really need today. Sustainable aviation fuel 0:30:53.520 --> 0:30:57.240 can be made from things like fats, in greases, oils. 0:30:57.240 --> 0:31:00.440 That's primarily what we're seeing today. But the next generation 0:31:00.560 --> 0:31:03.920 of those things is really where the fund science comes 0:31:03.960 --> 0:31:06.520 into play and where the carbon emissions comes down quite 0:31:06.560 --> 0:31:06.800 a bit. 0:31:07.040 --> 0:31:10.160 Is it always made of byproducts or are there certain 0:31:10.200 --> 0:31:12.400 crops that it could be grown just for producing this, 0:31:12.560 --> 0:31:12.840 So we. 0:31:12.800 --> 0:31:15.440 Haven't seen any crops grown directly for producing it. You're 0:31:15.480 --> 0:31:19.239 usually using byproducts. But the future technologies is actually all 0:31:19.240 --> 0:31:22.200 about pulling CO two out of the air and transforming 0:31:22.240 --> 0:31:25.600 that with renewable energy and renewable hydrogen into jet fuel. 0:31:25.640 --> 0:31:28.200 It's something that can be dropped right into two planes today, 0:31:28.480 --> 0:31:32.160 which is really exciting. Right You're not worried about, you know, 0:31:32.280 --> 0:31:33.280 taking the farm. 0:31:33.040 --> 0:31:35.040 And making it into fuel, Okay, I mentioned it's just 0:31:35.120 --> 0:31:37.200 a drop in the bucket right now. The aviation fuel 0:31:37.200 --> 0:31:40.040 management software provider I six Group says that only one 0:31:40.080 --> 0:31:42.640 tenth of one percent of all jet fuel that's used 0:31:42.680 --> 0:31:46.160 worldwide is sustainable aviation fuel, and that has remained level 0:31:46.600 --> 0:31:47.840 in the last four years. 0:31:48.280 --> 0:31:49.800 You know, that number is definitely growing. 0:31:49.880 --> 0:31:52.360 It's it's certainly we're seeing in about one percent right 0:31:52.400 --> 0:31:56.560 now and we're actually having demand much more every day. 0:31:56.640 --> 0:31:58.800 And so what we're seeing and what the challenge is 0:31:58.800 --> 0:32:01.800 is how do you scale up industry that is three 0:32:01.840 --> 0:32:04.680 to four times more expensive in the industry that exists today. 0:32:05.120 --> 0:32:08.080 And so you know, we're thinking about technologies and investments 0:32:08.400 --> 0:32:10.560 and where can we as an airline which doesn't have 0:32:10.640 --> 0:32:15.000 incredibly robust margins, spend our dollar wisely and spend the 0:32:15.040 --> 0:32:17.400 dollar of our guests wisely, so we're making the right 0:32:17.440 --> 0:32:18.000 choice for them. 0:32:18.040 --> 0:32:19.960 But also the planet really challenging. 0:32:20.080 --> 0:32:23.440 So one gallon of sustainable aviation fuel is literally three 0:32:23.480 --> 0:32:25.840 to four times more expensive conventional. 0:32:25.920 --> 0:32:28.760 Yeah, that's right. Okay, where are you getting it right now? 0:32:29.120 --> 0:32:31.760 So primarily we're getting it out of a group in 0:32:31.840 --> 0:32:35.400 Montana that's doing FATS, oils and esters, and we're sending 0:32:35.480 --> 0:32:38.200 that to our Los Angeles Airport and Sentencisco report. 0:32:38.360 --> 0:32:41.080 How do you bring these costs down? It's a great question. 0:32:41.160 --> 0:32:44.840 One is investment, but really the idea here today is 0:32:44.880 --> 0:32:48.320 finding great partners. So innovation happens in a lot of places, 0:32:48.320 --> 0:32:52.120 and that's why the Bloomberg Greenfest being here is an 0:32:52.200 --> 0:32:55.360 amazing opportunity to meet with our partners, folks like Microsoft, 0:32:55.400 --> 0:32:58.680 folks like Amazon that have a vested interest in how 0:32:58.680 --> 0:33:01.240 do they bring their emissions down when they're traveling for 0:33:01.280 --> 0:33:04.080 it with their employees, and so finding those partnerships to 0:33:04.080 --> 0:33:06.360 help us offset that green premium is part of it. 0:33:06.360 --> 0:33:08.080 It's the deal with any scaling. 0:33:08.040 --> 0:33:10.160 Operation, right, how do we get more We need to 0:33:10.160 --> 0:33:12.360 induce more demand and we need to kind of keep 0:33:12.360 --> 0:33:14.760 that train rolling and having partners that help. 0:33:14.760 --> 0:33:16.480 Us long, but are you just able to induce that 0:33:16.520 --> 0:33:19.080 demand by getting large corporate customers to pay more. 0:33:19.200 --> 0:33:21.840 No, And that's actually a really exciting thing that Alaska 0:33:21.880 --> 0:33:24.760 has done. So we've engaged our guests on this journey 0:33:24.760 --> 0:33:28.200 as well. Back in December, we offered a promotion that 0:33:28.680 --> 0:33:31.160 if you bought a sustainable aviation fuel with US, you 0:33:31.240 --> 0:33:34.160 got some elite qualifying miles. We sold over a half 0:33:34.200 --> 0:33:38.320 a million gallons of staff in December alone. In May 0:33:38.360 --> 0:33:40.560 of this year, we just offered that to our guests 0:33:40.600 --> 0:33:42.520 to do it in the bypass, So the first US 0:33:42.560 --> 0:33:44.880 company to do that. Where when you're buying your ticket, 0:33:44.880 --> 0:33:47.400 if you want to offset a piece of your flight five, ten, 0:33:47.520 --> 0:33:50.640 twenty percent, you can do that. You can help contribute, 0:33:51.080 --> 0:33:54.240 and every sort of piece helps. That's not the only 0:33:54.280 --> 0:33:56.560 thing as well, right, It's not just how do I 0:33:56.600 --> 0:33:58.160 get a guest to help me pay for this, or 0:33:58.160 --> 0:34:01.120 how do I find a corporate to help me balance this. 0:34:01.680 --> 0:34:03.080 It's also thinking about policy. 0:34:03.200 --> 0:34:06.360 Policy is incredibly important and one that we've seen on 0:34:06.400 --> 0:34:09.840 the federal level with the Inflation Reduction Act that certainly helped. 0:34:10.120 --> 0:34:12.120 We want to take that a step further, we see 0:34:12.120 --> 0:34:15.040 credits expiring, how do we extend those? So there's so 0:34:15.080 --> 0:34:17.719 many levers that we need to be really engaged with. 0:34:17.760 --> 0:34:18.920 And at Alaska we are. 0:34:18.960 --> 0:34:21.320 Does the lever need to be pulled by the government 0:34:21.600 --> 0:34:23.600 out by governments outside of the US as well as 0:34:23.600 --> 0:34:24.640 by governments in the US. 0:34:24.760 --> 0:34:25.839 You're seeing both, right. 0:34:25.920 --> 0:34:28.240 So in Europe it's much more of a stick approach, 0:34:28.760 --> 0:34:31.319 mandate on percentages of staff that you have to use. 0:34:31.520 --> 0:34:33.560 That's just sort of come into place. So we'll see 0:34:33.560 --> 0:34:36.280 how that market develops. Obviously, we're a much more caret 0:34:36.280 --> 0:34:38.600 focused market here in the US, and so you see 0:34:38.640 --> 0:34:41.799 incentives for building you and see incentives for delivering, and 0:34:41.840 --> 0:34:44.320 those are a different approach, and we're. 0:34:44.160 --> 0:34:45.719 Both going to see how this plays out. 0:34:45.760 --> 0:34:48.120 But I think both are really important and so it's 0:34:48.160 --> 0:34:50.239 exciting to see how this industryald growing. 0:34:50.600 --> 0:34:53.640 You sometimes hear terminology that doesn't exactly match what people 0:34:53.800 --> 0:34:57.160 think it means. So when you talk about sustainable aviation fuel, 0:34:57.960 --> 0:34:59.600 is it actually sustainable? 0:35:00.080 --> 0:35:00.239 Yeah? 0:35:00.280 --> 0:35:02.040 I mean you look at the life cycle. The science 0:35:02.080 --> 0:35:05.880 is certainly there behind it. But the challenge is is 0:35:05.920 --> 0:35:08.520 not all saff is equal, right? Each one might have 0:35:08.600 --> 0:35:11.440 a different carbon content or a life cycle carbon emissions 0:35:11.560 --> 0:35:15.240 associated with it, and so explaining that level of detail 0:35:15.520 --> 0:35:18.040 is challenging. We're always trying to think about it not 0:35:18.080 --> 0:35:21.000 in just gallon, a dollar per gallon, but dollar per ton. 0:35:21.080 --> 0:35:23.000 How much does it cost to reduce a ton of 0:35:23.040 --> 0:35:25.480 CO two? And we're thinking about that number, and that's 0:35:25.520 --> 0:35:27.080 what our guests are thinking about, and that's what our 0:35:27.080 --> 0:35:28.160 corporate clients are thinking about. 0:35:28.280 --> 0:35:31.000 So what's the byproduct that's created when an engine burns 0:35:31.000 --> 0:35:32.000 sustainable aviation fuel? 0:35:32.040 --> 0:35:34.520 It is CO two, so it's still burning it. The 0:35:34.560 --> 0:35:37.000 thing about sustainable aviation fuels, you're looking at the entire 0:35:37.040 --> 0:35:40.480 life cycle of how the fuel is actually made, right, 0:35:40.520 --> 0:35:43.759 whether you're pulling fossil fuels out of the ground, which 0:35:43.800 --> 0:35:47.120 is traditional jet fuel, or you're using some lower carbon 0:35:47.200 --> 0:35:51.280 material in the production and process and transportation of that fuel. 0:35:51.360 --> 0:35:53.600 So at the end of the day, you're still burning 0:35:53.600 --> 0:35:55.040 some CO two. But if you look at the full 0:35:55.080 --> 0:35:56.920 life cycle much reduced with SAPPS. 0:35:57.000 --> 0:36:00.600 So how much does it decrease the carbon output traditional 0:36:00.600 --> 0:36:02.120 flight if it's still emitting CO two? 0:36:02.239 --> 0:36:05.239 Yeah, so you're looking at you know, with with with 0:36:05.320 --> 0:36:07.840 SOA today about a forty percent reduction if you're putting 0:36:07.880 --> 0:36:09.760 that a plane in the in the total life cycle. 0:36:10.120 --> 0:36:11.759 Our hope is to get up to eighty or one 0:36:11.800 --> 0:36:14.480 hundred percent with the e fuels that we talked about earlier. 0:36:14.760 --> 0:36:18.000 Is this the only part of the solution when it 0:36:18.040 --> 0:36:20.800 comes to it, is it is the fact that airlines 0:36:20.800 --> 0:36:21.480 have on the climate. 0:36:21.560 --> 0:36:23.760 It's the I would say it's the short and medium 0:36:23.840 --> 0:36:26.920 term solution for many flights and the long term solution 0:36:27.080 --> 0:36:30.160 for long haul flights. We believe in battery technology, but 0:36:30.200 --> 0:36:33.439 we believe that there's an opportunity for hydrogen to play 0:36:33.480 --> 0:36:36.480 a part. But those things don't scale quite at the 0:36:36.480 --> 0:36:38.880 same rate. If you think about flying from here in 0:36:38.920 --> 0:36:41.960 Seattle to New York, by the time you land today, 0:36:42.200 --> 0:36:44.520 or if you you took that flight, the weight of 0:36:44.520 --> 0:36:46.279 the aircraft has gone down tremendously. 0:36:46.640 --> 0:36:48.719 If you do that with batteries, it's still the same weight. 0:36:48.840 --> 0:36:53.000 So you're really fundamentally fighting against something that's physics. And 0:36:53.040 --> 0:36:55.640 so we think that for those short and medium term 0:36:55.680 --> 0:36:59.560 medium hall flights, new technologies will absolutely start to take 0:36:59.640 --> 0:37:01.919 take old staff will be there for. 0:37:01.840 --> 0:37:03.719 The long term. What about hydrogen. 0:37:04.360 --> 0:37:06.680 You know, we made an investment and actually donated a 0:37:06.719 --> 0:37:07.760 plane to zero avia. 0:37:07.840 --> 0:37:09.520 So they're looking at Yeah, we're joined by the CEO 0:37:09.560 --> 0:37:10.720 and founder later on the program. 0:37:10.800 --> 0:37:13.560 Yeah, it's super excited and an incredible talking to that 0:37:13.560 --> 0:37:17.960 we're all anxiously waiting for. You know, that's a technology 0:37:18.000 --> 0:37:20.040 where we think, hey, there's some promise here. There's still 0:37:20.040 --> 0:37:22.480 a lot of infrastructure challenges with hydrogen. There's still a 0:37:22.520 --> 0:37:24.440 lot of how do I get that to my airport? 0:37:25.600 --> 0:37:29.399 But we are investing and encouraged by it. But we'll 0:37:29.400 --> 0:37:30.239 see where it plays out. 0:37:30.360 --> 0:37:32.640 Not to mention the production of the actual hydrogen and 0:37:32.680 --> 0:37:34.280 persons be energy intensive too. 0:37:34.320 --> 0:37:35.320 Very energy intensive. 0:37:35.360 --> 0:37:37.319 But that's the case with all these feels at this point, 0:37:37.400 --> 0:37:41.360 right and so we're encouraged by renewable energy obviously dominating 0:37:41.760 --> 0:37:43.800 every new piece of energy that's going in the market, 0:37:43.960 --> 0:37:46.080 and that would help on the hydrogen side as well. 0:37:46.280 --> 0:37:49.120 So right now, if you look at the fuel usage 0:37:49.120 --> 0:37:51.560 of Alaska airlines, what portion is sustainable aviation? 0:37:51.640 --> 0:37:51.799 To you? 0:37:51.960 --> 0:37:55.719 We are about one percent, and like most airlines here 0:37:55.719 --> 0:37:58.160 in the US, our goal is by twenty thirty. To 0:37:58.520 --> 0:38:01.400 hit a ten percent goal will be a challenge without 0:38:01.520 --> 0:38:02.919 all of those levers pulled at. 0:38:02.800 --> 0:38:04.920 The same Is it a realistical I think it is. 0:38:04.960 --> 0:38:07.400 I think it is. I think the challenge is today. 0:38:07.680 --> 0:38:10.839 I think that there are absolutely opportunities to get us there. 0:38:11.200 --> 0:38:12.520 Not going to say it's going to be easy. 0:38:12.719 --> 0:38:15.640 It's also if you think about the sustainability element, you said, 0:38:15.719 --> 0:38:17.680 do you have a facility in Montana that you work 0:38:17.719 --> 0:38:19.120 with and then you have to get that fuel then 0:38:19.120 --> 0:38:22.120 to the West coast? Yeah, that's not exactly you know, 0:38:22.200 --> 0:38:23.319 carbon neutral. 0:38:23.160 --> 0:38:26.640 Right, it's the infrastructure challenge is it's its own beasts. 0:38:26.680 --> 0:38:29.080 Especially here in the Pacific Northwest. We have some real 0:38:29.160 --> 0:38:31.480 challenges with getting saff into seatak. So how do we 0:38:31.520 --> 0:38:35.040 solve those working with policymakers, working with partners, working with 0:38:35.440 --> 0:38:37.920 traditional oil and gas to solve some of those challenges. 0:38:38.680 --> 0:38:40.239 But yeah, I mean most people don't ask where they're 0:38:40.239 --> 0:38:41.920 getting their jet fuel from in the start. 0:38:42.280 --> 0:38:43.799 Yeah, that certainly makes sense. 0:38:43.920 --> 0:38:47.120 Do you think that we'll start to see traditional energy 0:38:47.120 --> 0:38:51.920 companies that make conventional aviation fuel get into this market? 0:38:52.080 --> 0:38:53.240 You know, I think they've dabbled. 0:38:53.239 --> 0:38:55.160 I think they're a bit waiting on the sidelines to 0:38:55.200 --> 0:38:57.080 see is the demand really there? 0:38:57.280 --> 0:38:57.480 Is it? 0:38:57.640 --> 0:38:57.839 Yeah? 0:38:57.840 --> 0:38:59.680 It sounds like it is, because if the goal is 0:39:00.239 --> 0:39:02.680 twenty thirty, that the demand is there the. 0:39:02.760 --> 0:39:05.800 Demand is the intention is there, right, but the demand 0:39:05.880 --> 0:39:08.279 to pay for it is still developing right, And now 0:39:08.360 --> 0:39:10.880 I think that'll be the biggest challenge. And honestly, if 0:39:10.880 --> 0:39:13.319 you're looking at the loan gas markets, they're worried about 0:39:13.320 --> 0:39:16.040 their margins too, so they're doing they're doing what they 0:39:16.040 --> 0:39:16.640 need to do well. 0:39:16.840 --> 0:39:19.919 One of our Bloomberg Intelligence Commodities analyst, Mike mclohan always says, 0:39:19.920 --> 0:39:22.839 the cure for high prices is high prices. So if 0:39:22.880 --> 0:39:25.840 you have something that's high priced, you get more people 0:39:25.880 --> 0:39:26.920 coming into that market. 0:39:27.239 --> 0:39:28.680 It's just basic economics. Right. 0:39:29.080 --> 0:39:30.520 Do we get to a point where you get so 0:39:30.520 --> 0:39:33.360 many people coming into the market because they see demand 0:39:33.400 --> 0:39:35.480 for it that you see price to fall in the 0:39:35.480 --> 0:39:36.080 coming years. 0:39:36.120 --> 0:39:38.400 Absolutely, And that's where I think engaging our guests and 0:39:38.440 --> 0:39:41.440 engaging corporates and telling those stories about the demand that 0:39:41.480 --> 0:39:45.560 we have will encourage and will, you know, hopefully incent 0:39:45.680 --> 0:39:48.200 production in the places that we need in numbers. 0:39:48.280 --> 0:39:52.239 Ryan Spiece, Managing director of Sustainability at Alaska Airlines, here 0:39:52.360 --> 0:39:55.160 from the Bloomberg green At Festival in Seattle. Ryan, thanks 0:39:55.160 --> 0:39:55.920 so much for joining us. 0:39:55.920 --> 0:39:57.719 Thank you this much. We really do appreciate it. 0:40:03.680 --> 0:40:07.560 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Listen live 0:40:07.640 --> 0:40:10.799 each weekday starting at two pm Eastern on applecar Play 0:40:10.880 --> 0:40:13.719 and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. You can 0:40:13.760 --> 0:40:17.000 also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New 0:40:17.080 --> 0:40:20.720 York station, Just say Alexa Play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 0:40:22.040 --> 0:40:23.680 Here's something you're not going to want to hear as 0:40:23.719 --> 0:40:26.239 you pack your bags for your summer holidays. Tourism has 0:40:26.280 --> 0:40:27.000 a dark side. 0:40:27.040 --> 0:40:30.320 It's not just the climate impact over tourism also an issue. 0:40:30.480 --> 0:40:34.279 Unmanaged crowds ruined destinations for locals and travelers alike, and 0:40:34.360 --> 0:40:37.920 high visitor numbers they don't necessarily translate into benefits for 0:40:37.960 --> 0:40:41.080 the local economy. Ven has implemented a new entrance fee, 0:40:41.239 --> 0:40:43.680 and anti tourism protests have sprung up in places like 0:40:43.760 --> 0:40:45.600 Barcelona and in the Canary Islands. 0:40:45.680 --> 0:40:48.680 This is where Jeremy Sampson comes in. Jeremy is CEO 0:40:48.719 --> 0:40:51.839 of the Travel Foundation. It's an independent charity that works 0:40:51.840 --> 0:40:55.200 with tourism companies and organizations to make tourism benefit both 0:40:55.239 --> 0:40:58.080 the environment and the communities where it's happening. We continue 0:40:58.120 --> 0:41:00.920 our coverage from the Bloomberg Green Festival in Seattle this 0:41:01.000 --> 0:41:01.879 past week, the. 0:41:01.840 --> 0:41:05.120 Industry has been talking about sustainability and in some ways 0:41:05.160 --> 0:41:08.239 as an end points, but really sustainability as a you know, 0:41:08.400 --> 0:41:10.520 is not a is not a thing you can actually 0:41:10.560 --> 0:41:13.400 achieve as a tick box. It's a it's a continuous 0:41:13.400 --> 0:41:17.960 process of improvement and working towards you know, reducing negative 0:41:18.000 --> 0:41:21.840 impacts and increasing increasing the positive ones, and creating a 0:41:21.840 --> 0:41:22.480 better balance. 0:41:22.520 --> 0:41:23.000 And I think. 0:41:22.920 --> 0:41:27.240 Ultimately that's that's the goal, and absolutely that's possible. Defining 0:41:27.239 --> 0:41:29.279 what good looks like in a place is a whole 0:41:29.280 --> 0:41:30.000 other discussion. 0:41:30.160 --> 0:41:31.839 Is it on the radar at all to people who 0:41:31.840 --> 0:41:32.919 are booking trips right now? 0:41:33.160 --> 0:41:35.440 We that's a great question, is and you know, we 0:41:35.480 --> 0:41:40.760 do see quite a few research, you know, surveys showing 0:41:41.560 --> 0:41:45.560 that people are interested in sustainability as a as a 0:41:45.640 --> 0:41:48.680 key driver of you know, of their decisions. But we 0:41:48.719 --> 0:41:51.920 see a huge gap between intention and action when it 0:41:51.960 --> 0:41:55.120 comes to their you know, their actual purchase you know, 0:41:55.160 --> 0:41:59.960 purchase choices money almost always, and location and sort of 0:42:00.120 --> 0:42:02.680 those kinds of things are such such important drivers. And 0:42:02.719 --> 0:42:05.680 the industry has been waiting for this demands to increase, 0:42:05.760 --> 0:42:09.040 and our thought on that is that actually the business 0:42:09.040 --> 0:42:11.640 case needs to be reframed away from that demand piece 0:42:11.640 --> 0:42:14.360 and more towards the risk that businesses face in the 0:42:14.400 --> 0:42:16.480 long run as things like climate change start to ramp 0:42:16.600 --> 0:42:17.880 up and become even more serious. 0:42:18.040 --> 0:42:20.920 Remind us, for those who maybe are not familiar with 0:42:20.960 --> 0:42:23.960 your organization, what you guys are doing and what you're 0:42:23.960 --> 0:42:25.520 looking to really solve. 0:42:25.880 --> 0:42:30.400 Sure, you know, we exist primarily to represent a voice 0:42:30.520 --> 0:42:33.840 that is often not represented in the travel in tourism sector, 0:42:34.320 --> 0:42:39.560 and which are the communities that host travel, that host travelers. 0:42:39.600 --> 0:42:43.719 And the environment in which the industry depends on the 0:42:44.239 --> 0:42:48.120 eighty percent of travel and tourism is actually coastal, and 0:42:48.200 --> 0:42:52.239 so you know, the beaches, the marine infrastructure that the 0:42:52.280 --> 0:42:54.920 industry depends on has often not been so kind to 0:42:56.160 --> 0:42:59.319 which is potentially not good business sense. So we've been 0:42:59.360 --> 0:43:04.040 advocating for those two stakeholders in a sense by helping 0:43:04.080 --> 0:43:09.399 to enable bolster the enabling environments for sustainability, climate action, 0:43:10.080 --> 0:43:14.319 increased equity, and the tourism economy to thrive. The sector is, 0:43:15.160 --> 0:43:19.160 like many, very focused on growth, very focused on. 0:43:19.160 --> 0:43:20.320 Especially after the pandemic. 0:43:20.440 --> 0:43:23.839 Right well, it's been peaks and valleys for years. There 0:43:23.920 --> 0:43:27.160 was nine to eleven, there was the economic downturn in 0:43:27.200 --> 0:43:29.640 two thousand and eight there was COVID. Each of those 0:43:30.040 --> 0:43:32.640 took the industry to its knees, and then there's been 0:43:32.760 --> 0:43:37.880 a great recovery story ever since. And oftentimes those recoveries 0:43:37.920 --> 0:43:40.960 have butted heads with issues of sustainability. But at the 0:43:41.040 --> 0:43:43.880 end of the day, we believe that sustainability is not 0:43:43.960 --> 0:43:46.600 a not a side show or a tick box, but 0:43:46.719 --> 0:43:49.040 rather something that to be integrated into day to day 0:43:49.040 --> 0:43:49.560 decision meeting. 0:43:49.640 --> 0:43:51.560 Well, some companies have integrated it to try to get 0:43:51.600 --> 0:43:54.120 consumers to make decisions. You can go to certain online 0:43:54.160 --> 0:43:57.200 travel agency booking websites when you're booking a flight. I 0:43:57.200 --> 0:44:00.200 think actually ours does this ferrol internally when you get 0:44:00.200 --> 0:44:02.760 a flight, it has how much carbon that's is released. 0:44:02.960 --> 0:44:05.440 I got a confession to make. I completely ignore that number. 0:44:05.719 --> 0:44:06.520 Am I a bad person? 0:44:08.239 --> 0:44:08.439 Yeah? 0:44:08.560 --> 0:44:10.000 I look at the time. I look at the time 0:44:10.200 --> 0:44:11.720 of the flight. That's like what I listening. 0:44:11.960 --> 0:44:15.680 Listen. I'm probably one of the world's most well known 0:44:15.719 --> 0:44:18.359 experts in sustainable travel, and I have a horrible time 0:44:18.400 --> 0:44:21.719 making good decisions about sustainability when I when I do 0:44:21.800 --> 0:44:26.680 my own personal travel. Why the information is either you know, 0:44:27.200 --> 0:44:29.800 too confusing, so you want to you want to find 0:44:30.480 --> 0:44:32.359 I find out the basics about a place or about 0:44:32.360 --> 0:44:35.240 a business, and it's buried somewhere. You have some information 0:44:35.320 --> 0:44:38.359 that's coming to you, but it's usually not contextualized and 0:44:38.680 --> 0:44:41.400 is part of a much wider range of decision making 0:44:41.400 --> 0:44:44.520 that you're doing as a as a person. And ultimately, 0:44:44.640 --> 0:44:47.560 we don't really believe that individual you know, individual decisions 0:44:47.560 --> 0:44:50.040 are are really where it's what it's all about. But 0:44:50.080 --> 0:44:53.360 what rather systems change within the industry and and designing 0:44:53.360 --> 0:44:56.960 sustainability right and right into the system and things that 0:44:56.960 --> 0:44:59.439 are unsustainable out because there's no reason we should even 0:44:59.520 --> 0:45:03.359 be offer things that are destroying the climate too tart 0:45:03.400 --> 0:45:04.520 to the end user, Jeremy. 0:45:04.560 --> 0:45:06.759 One thing I wonder like, I think about it when 0:45:06.800 --> 0:45:10.200 you order food now, right, the calories are up there, right, 0:45:10.280 --> 0:45:14.280 And I think about when I buy some products or food, 0:45:14.400 --> 0:45:16.160 I turn around and I look at the labels more 0:45:16.160 --> 0:45:19.200 than I've ever before. Is there some kind of labeling 0:45:19.280 --> 0:45:22.720 or metric that you can really apply across the travel 0:45:22.760 --> 0:45:25.200 industry that will make us all kind of think differently 0:45:25.480 --> 0:45:28.239 and be more concerned. So this is coming and change 0:45:28.239 --> 0:45:28.760 our habits. 0:45:28.800 --> 0:45:30.640 This is coming. And there's been a there's been a 0:45:30.640 --> 0:45:33.960 great movement, especially among the travel tech space, so the 0:45:35.040 --> 0:45:38.600 online travel agents like Booking, dot Com, ex Media, Airbnb 0:45:38.800 --> 0:45:42.640 to have a common framework for reporting to consumers. For 0:45:42.680 --> 0:45:44.840 many years there were there was a badge here, a 0:45:44.920 --> 0:45:47.960 leaf here, a circle here. No one knew what it meant, 0:45:48.000 --> 0:45:50.759 and we really did a poor job of aligning those 0:45:51.640 --> 0:45:52.680 you know that communication. 0:45:52.800 --> 0:45:56.359 I always assume a leaf is good. Yeah, it seems good. 0:45:56.760 --> 0:45:57.399 It seems good. 0:45:57.719 --> 0:45:58.399 It seems good. 0:45:58.440 --> 0:45:59.400 Who doesn't like leaves? 0:45:59.560 --> 0:46:02.040 But actually it actually responds to one of the big 0:46:02.680 --> 0:46:05.520 the big risks there, which is that most people associate 0:46:05.760 --> 0:46:10.160 sustainability with tree hugging. Okay, we we uh hung up 0:46:10.160 --> 0:46:11.040 our towels and. 0:46:11.000 --> 0:46:15.520 We used we didn't use planted a tree exactly. Problem solved. 0:46:15.600 --> 0:46:19.240 The challenge is much more holistic when it comes to sustainability. 0:46:19.680 --> 0:46:23.160 And it's also the industry is incredibly fragmented, so it's 0:46:23.239 --> 0:46:25.640 not a sector at all. It's really a bunch of 0:46:25.680 --> 0:46:28.719 sectors mashed up into one. So on any given trip, 0:46:28.760 --> 0:46:31.160 even a basic one, you might be traveling with a 0:46:31.200 --> 0:46:37.640 carbonontal agency, a hotel, an activity provider, several restaurants you know, 0:46:37.719 --> 0:46:40.040 and each of them are trying to take responsibility for 0:46:40.080 --> 0:46:42.040 their piece of the pie, and there's not a lot 0:46:42.040 --> 0:46:45.080 of alignment and convening that brings it all together to say, 0:46:45.280 --> 0:46:47.680 you know, here's the experience that you're having, and here's 0:46:47.719 --> 0:46:48.760 the things that really matter. 0:46:49.080 --> 0:46:50.319 Where does government come in. 0:46:50.440 --> 0:46:53.400 So tourism has long been the most unregulated sector in 0:46:53.440 --> 0:46:56.800 the world, even behind oil and gas, and part of 0:46:56.840 --> 0:47:00.400 that comes from the the this fragmentation. It's it's reallyallenging 0:47:00.440 --> 0:47:05.879 to regulate something that is so fragmented and really could 0:47:05.880 --> 0:47:08.440 sort of could sort of beat the system in many ways. 0:47:08.480 --> 0:47:12.480 And the concentration of sort of power and influences has 0:47:12.520 --> 0:47:15.440 shifted because now it sits with the big tech companies, 0:47:15.719 --> 0:47:18.080 which for a long time said we're not even in 0:47:18.120 --> 0:47:20.080 the travel industry, we're tech platforms. 0:47:20.239 --> 0:47:20.400 You know. 0:47:20.680 --> 0:47:24.960 So government is increasingly needed, actually, I think find to 0:47:25.000 --> 0:47:30.000 set those limits. Until the sort of twenty ten time period, 0:47:30.400 --> 0:47:33.319 it was easier to manage the capacity in a place 0:47:33.400 --> 0:47:36.080 right like you had only a certain number of hotel 0:47:36.200 --> 0:47:39.000 rooms and a certain number of people could fill them, 0:47:39.000 --> 0:47:42.160 and you were sort of at capacity. Then two things happened. 0:47:42.239 --> 0:47:45.719 Airbnb and short term rentals really changed the game. All 0:47:45.719 --> 0:47:47.640 of a sudden, there were infinite rooms in a place 0:47:48.160 --> 0:47:51.440 and short short haul flights became very cheap, especially in 0:47:51.480 --> 0:47:54.600 Europe where you had people flying to London Barcelona for 0:47:54.680 --> 0:47:57.440 ten quid for the weekend. Which, while it made it 0:47:57.480 --> 0:48:00.160 more accessible and people could do that, you know, is 0:48:00.160 --> 0:48:03.799 a nice thing for your pocketbook, it actually changed the 0:48:03.800 --> 0:48:06.839 game in terms of numbers. All of a sudden, Barcelona, Venice, 0:48:06.920 --> 0:48:11.640 these places were totally overwhelmed with people. It's all possible. 0:48:11.680 --> 0:48:13.680 You can manage a whole lot of people, but there 0:48:13.719 --> 0:48:16.319 has to be the planning in the background to be 0:48:16.360 --> 0:48:19.960 able to make sure that the demand does not outstrip 0:48:20.000 --> 0:48:22.000 the resources and capacity that are available. 0:48:22.080 --> 0:48:24.239 What is the worst thing what makes tourism so bad 0:48:24.280 --> 0:48:26.160 for the environment? Have a list for you. Is it planes? 0:48:26.239 --> 0:48:28.080 Is it cars? Is it cruise ships? Is it food 0:48:28.120 --> 0:48:31.280 and food waste? Is it garbage? What are the biggest 0:48:31.280 --> 0:48:34.000 contributing factors or is it kind of all above? 0:48:34.239 --> 0:48:37.040 Yeah, we've done the research on this and when it 0:48:37.040 --> 0:48:41.480 comes to climate change specifically and carbon emissions, you know, 0:48:41.760 --> 0:48:46.760 air travel is particularly polluting. We know this. Air travel 0:48:46.880 --> 0:48:49.719 is also one of the most difficult to decarbonize. We 0:48:49.800 --> 0:48:54.120 also know this right now, sustainable aviation fuel is only 0:48:54.160 --> 0:48:58.200 able to fuel the fleet of airplanes that fly around 0:48:58.239 --> 0:49:01.960 the world for less than one So we're nowhere near 0:49:02.040 --> 0:49:04.600 the scale of the solution that will be required for 0:49:04.680 --> 0:49:08.120 air to decarbonize. Electrification might help, but it's you know, 0:49:08.160 --> 0:49:10.320 to replace a fleet of planes. It's not an easy 0:49:10.320 --> 0:49:13.719 thing to do. Yeah. In our report, which I think 0:49:13.719 --> 0:49:17.040 we'll get into in a moment, what we're suggesting actually, 0:49:17.120 --> 0:49:20.440 and we've done the modeling, is that there's more nuance 0:49:20.520 --> 0:49:22.680 than has been than there has been in this sort 0:49:22.719 --> 0:49:25.640 of debate. It's not just a de growth versus growth 0:49:25.640 --> 0:49:29.160 conversation or a flight shame you should never fly. And 0:49:29.200 --> 0:49:31.080 we were able to show that the industry could actually 0:49:31.120 --> 0:49:36.520 achieve its climate targets by simply maintaining growth at around 0:49:36.600 --> 0:49:40.080 twenty nineteen levels of long haul long half. 0:49:39.880 --> 0:49:41.640 Flights, so it's a long half flights that it's a. 0:49:41.640 --> 0:49:45.919 Long half flights. Shanghai to Sydney is about the sort 0:49:45.920 --> 0:49:47.920 of average long half flight that we studied. 0:49:48.239 --> 0:49:50.040 One thing that I'm really interested in this is this 0:49:50.080 --> 0:49:53.400 idea of over tourism and the idea that a tourist 0:49:53.480 --> 0:49:57.719 dollars spent somewhere doesn't necessarily go to the local community. 0:49:57.800 --> 0:49:58.280 That's right. 0:49:58.320 --> 0:50:00.320 This is a new part of a conversation that's happening 0:50:00.320 --> 0:50:02.520 because for years we were taught, oh, we should go 0:50:02.560 --> 0:50:04.400 here because it supports the local economy. 0:50:04.640 --> 0:50:06.880 Not that simple, right, How do we quantify. 0:50:06.480 --> 0:50:07.680 That this is climate justice? 0:50:07.719 --> 0:50:07.839 Right? 0:50:07.880 --> 0:50:08.359 A little bit? 0:50:08.600 --> 0:50:10.839 Well, a little bit. I mean, there's a couple other 0:50:10.880 --> 0:50:12.920 issues that play here that I think are really important. 0:50:13.160 --> 0:50:17.919 On the overturism front. Overturism itself is a symptom rather 0:50:18.000 --> 0:50:21.800 than a root issue. What you see there is again 0:50:22.360 --> 0:50:25.080 places that have been stripped away from their ability to 0:50:26.640 --> 0:50:29.479 manage that the fact that that the demand and number 0:50:29.560 --> 0:50:34.080 of people is outpacing the resources that are available. Overturism 0:50:34.160 --> 0:50:36.200 could be one person. If that one person is in 0:50:36.200 --> 0:50:38.759 the wrong place at the wrong time and the community 0:50:38.800 --> 0:50:41.480 is not ready to provide them with the wastewater and 0:50:41.560 --> 0:50:44.399 energy services for example, that have that, they will need 0:50:44.440 --> 0:50:46.640 to be a visitor in their in their community. 0:50:46.840 --> 0:50:48.879 It doesn't take much. We've all been in developing world 0:50:49.000 --> 0:50:51.400 right where you're somewhere and it's just the systems all 0:50:51.400 --> 0:50:51.719 the time. 0:50:51.800 --> 0:50:53.640 You feel you feel it, you feel that it's broken, 0:50:54.440 --> 0:50:57.160 but it is solvable actually, and it's not just about crowds. 0:50:57.760 --> 0:51:01.480 When it comes to this issue of equity. Uh, you know, 0:51:01.560 --> 0:51:05.800 the industry has long had this platitude that travel is 0:51:05.840 --> 0:51:08.400 a force for good. I tend to leave actually that 0:51:08.440 --> 0:51:10.480 the industry can be a force for good. But it 0:51:10.480 --> 0:51:12.760 doesn't do so just by showing up in a place 0:51:12.840 --> 0:51:16.759 that's trickle down economics and and trickle down economics. I'm 0:51:16.800 --> 0:51:21.319 afraid you know has has has not necessarily worked. It 0:51:21.360 --> 0:51:24.680 doesn't just show up and sort of rain down profit 0:51:24.800 --> 0:51:30.600 and and wealth on local people. Interestingly, small and medium 0:51:30.640 --> 0:51:32.880 sized businesses are the beating heart of travel and tourism. 0:51:32.920 --> 0:51:34.960 When you go to a place, right, that's who you 0:51:35.040 --> 0:51:40.480 interact with. So when destination management organizations, when businesses are 0:51:40.520 --> 0:51:45.800 acting with intentionality about spreading that well, spreading the value 0:51:45.880 --> 0:51:49.160 of the tourism dollar. There are ways to make that happen. 0:51:49.160 --> 0:51:51.680 But it doesn't just happen without some real thought into 0:51:51.719 --> 0:51:54.200 how to how do you maximize that equity and make 0:51:54.239 --> 0:51:56.799 sure that those communities are are actually feeling that love. 0:51:57.000 --> 0:51:59.000 If you could change one thing in the tourism industry 0:51:59.040 --> 0:51:59.680 just quickly, what. 0:51:59.640 --> 0:52:03.880 Would you I would cut marketing budgets because. 0:52:04.200 --> 0:52:06.080 And don't get me wrong on them, don't break in 0:52:06.080 --> 0:52:06.719 more travelers. 0:52:06.880 --> 0:52:10.560 No, not necessarily, I believe in marketing, but the balance 0:52:10.640 --> 0:52:12.839 is way out of whack. We have an industry that 0:52:13.080 --> 0:52:17.400 markets itself to death and spends very little on issues 0:52:17.440 --> 0:52:20.080 around around climate change, which to me pose a great 0:52:20.080 --> 0:52:23.120 threat to business. So I think shifting that balance just 0:52:23.120 --> 0:52:24.719 a little bit would make a huge difference. 0:52:24.960 --> 0:52:27.120 All right, listen, So glad we got some time. 0:52:27.160 --> 0:52:29.279 Thank you so much, great, Thank you so much. You're 0:52:29.640 --> 0:52:32.200 welcome having me and appreciate the thoughtful conversation. 0:52:32.280 --> 0:52:33.239 You bet, good luck a greed. 0:52:33.239 --> 0:52:33.520 Thank you. 0:52:33.719 --> 0:52:33.919 Yeah. 0:52:34.360 --> 0:52:36.759 Jeremy Sampson, CEO of the Travel Foundation, Live from the 0:52:36.800 --> 0:52:39.160 Bloomberg Green Festival in Seattle. 0:52:40.400 --> 0:52:43.960 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us 0:52:44.000 --> 0:52:47.240 live weekday afternoons from two to five pm Eastern Listen 0:52:47.280 --> 0:52:49.440 on Apple, car Play and and Broyt Auto with a 0:52:49.440 --> 0:52:53.600 Bloomberg Business at or watch us live on YouTube. 0:52:55.080 --> 0:52:56.960 Plenty Ahead in our second hour of the weekend edition 0:52:57.000 --> 0:53:00.279 to Bloomberg Business Week, including more insightful conversation and from 0:53:00.280 --> 0:53:03.799 this week's Bloomberg Green Festival in Seattle, Washington, we'll check 0:53:03.880 --> 0:53:06.320 in with the chief scientists at the Environmental Defense Fund 0:53:06.480 --> 0:53:09.719 on how a highly specialized satellite can spot emissions that 0:53:09.800 --> 0:53:11.160 other satellites cannot. 0:53:11.480 --> 0:53:14.240 Plus, speaking of taking flight, we're joined by the founder 0:53:14.239 --> 0:53:16.440 and CEO of a company that says it's building the 0:53:16.440 --> 0:53:19.400 first zero emission engines for commercial aviation. 0:53:19.680 --> 0:53:20.520 First up this hour. 0:53:20.600 --> 0:53:23.160 As we've mentioned, the Bloomberg Green Festival this past week 0:53:23.239 --> 0:53:29.520 in Seattle was all about bringing together innovators, policymakers, entrepreneurs, artists, activists, musicians, 0:53:29.920 --> 0:53:33.560 folks from business, government, all kinds of leaders to explore 0:53:33.640 --> 0:53:36.279 new solutions spanning the entire climate spectrum. 0:53:36.480 --> 0:53:39.920 Two of those voices are the chief sustainability officer at Amazon, 0:53:40.040 --> 0:53:43.880 Kara Hurst, and the WNBA's all time winningest player and 0:53:43.960 --> 0:53:47.360 co founder of the media and commerce company Together and 0:53:47.400 --> 0:53:50.560 the production company A touch more we're talking about Sue Byrd. 0:53:50.960 --> 0:53:53.520 They joined Carol for a panel on using platforms to 0:53:53.560 --> 0:53:54.560 affect change. 0:53:55.040 --> 0:53:57.680 Well, I have to say these two are pretty incredible 0:53:57.760 --> 0:54:01.040 and they have unique I just want to do a 0:54:01.080 --> 0:54:04.520 little quick setup. Karraspearheaded the Climate Pledge, which was co 0:54:04.560 --> 0:54:07.600 founded by Amazon back in twenty nineteen, group of more 0:54:07.640 --> 0:54:09.600 than five hundred companies. I think it was five hundred 0:54:09.640 --> 0:54:11.839 and three, to be exact, per your website, forty five 0:54:11.880 --> 0:54:15.359 countries around the globe. They've made a commitment to reach 0:54:15.400 --> 0:54:19.600 net zero carbon emissions by twenty forty. Amazon purchased the 0:54:19.680 --> 0:54:23.440 naming rights into what is today the Climate Pledge Arena 0:54:23.480 --> 0:54:27.600 that was back in twenty twenty. Sue is a member 0:54:27.800 --> 0:54:30.759 of the ownership group of the WNBA team, of course, 0:54:30.800 --> 0:54:35.640 the Seattle Storm. 0:54:35.960 --> 0:54:37.560 The Storm was. 0:54:37.520 --> 0:54:41.760 The first w NBA team to actually sign the Climate 0:54:41.840 --> 0:54:44.759 Pledge and the second North American professional sports team to 0:54:44.800 --> 0:54:48.000 do so, so pretty cool. The Storm plays home games 0:54:48.000 --> 0:54:50.600 of course in the Climate Pledge Arena, and Sue, by 0:54:50.640 --> 0:54:53.560 the way, won her fifth Olympical metal in Tokyo in 0:54:53.600 --> 0:54:55.720 twenty twenty, So I'm just kind of tying it all together. 0:54:58.120 --> 0:55:01.960 Another connection that these two have is really phenomenal platforms, 0:55:02.000 --> 0:55:03.879 And that's where I kind of want to start, because 0:55:03.880 --> 0:55:05.960 when you have a platform, you kind of have a 0:55:06.000 --> 0:55:07.279 responsibility to use it. 0:55:07.520 --> 0:55:08.719 So Car, I want to start with you. 0:55:08.760 --> 0:55:11.040 For you guys at Amazon, it is largely but a 0:55:11.040 --> 0:55:14.160 lot of things, but for you sustainability and the climate. 0:55:14.480 --> 0:55:17.320 How do you think about the value of having Amazon 0:55:17.920 --> 0:55:23.040 worldwide known, huge firm, huge company, massive platform. How do 0:55:23.080 --> 0:55:26.839 you think about the responsibility of that platform and how 0:55:26.880 --> 0:55:28.920 do you prioritize the things you want to do. 0:55:29.280 --> 0:55:32.040 Sure well, I could be more excited to be on 0:55:32.640 --> 0:55:36.759 this stage and this conversation today, so thanks for having me. 0:55:38.040 --> 0:55:38.879 It is it's a. 0:55:38.880 --> 0:55:42.359 Huge responsibility and also a really exciting one because one 0:55:42.360 --> 0:55:44.400 of the things we get to do at Amazon is 0:55:44.440 --> 0:55:47.759 to use our scale and really the speed also that 0:55:47.800 --> 0:55:52.640 we go at to send really big demand signals for 0:55:53.000 --> 0:55:57.520 clean technologies, like what was just being discussed to say 0:55:57.520 --> 0:56:01.440 that we want an accelerated fight towards climate change and 0:56:01.640 --> 0:56:04.040 what you just mentioned that we set our intention to 0:56:04.080 --> 0:56:06.839 be net zero carbon by twenty forty that's ten years 0:56:06.880 --> 0:56:09.600 ahead of the Paris Agreement, and we set that looking 0:56:09.640 --> 0:56:11.960 at the science and saying we think we're in this 0:56:12.040 --> 0:56:15.400 decisive decade. We know we need to move faster. We 0:56:15.480 --> 0:56:18.319 have a lot of optimism about doing that, but we 0:56:18.360 --> 0:56:22.840 can't go alone. And we're excited that over five hundred 0:56:22.920 --> 0:56:26.400 organizations and other companies have joined us in that. But 0:56:26.480 --> 0:56:29.680 we want to send these really strong demand signals and 0:56:29.719 --> 0:56:32.480 we want to also put our own resources towards that. 0:56:32.680 --> 0:56:35.920 So we've been doing things like purchasing renewable energy. We're 0:56:35.960 --> 0:56:39.240 the largest corporate purchaser of renewable energy in the world. 0:56:39.280 --> 0:56:41.360 We have been for the last four years. We announced 0:56:41.440 --> 0:56:44.840 yesterday we've actually hit one hundred percent renewable energy across 0:56:44.840 --> 0:56:45.719 our global. 0:56:45.360 --> 0:56:47.680 Operations, which is a huge feat. 0:56:47.719 --> 0:56:52.000 We have over five hundred projects zachly around the world. 0:56:52.800 --> 0:56:55.920 We've got twenty four thousand electric delivery. 0:56:55.520 --> 0:56:57.400 Vehicles on the road already. 0:56:57.560 --> 0:57:01.120 We've got one of the world's largest charging electric charging 0:57:02.040 --> 0:57:05.000 infrastructure kind of operations going. 0:57:05.200 --> 0:57:05.759 We've just got. 0:57:05.840 --> 0:57:08.080 You know, we look at all the different aspects of 0:57:08.160 --> 0:57:11.719 our operations and think about how do we make it 0:57:11.760 --> 0:57:14.640 more sustainable on behalf of our customer. We want to 0:57:14.680 --> 0:57:17.760 reduce waste. We took out those plastic air pillows. We 0:57:17.800 --> 0:57:20.000 took out ninety five percent of those in North America. 0:57:20.720 --> 0:57:25.080 So we want to make a sustainable company and do 0:57:25.120 --> 0:57:25.440 it on. 0:57:25.440 --> 0:57:26.480 Behalf of our customer. 0:57:26.640 --> 0:57:28.160 So I want to bring you into it. You are 0:57:28.240 --> 0:57:31.600 part of a group of very elite athletes, and when 0:57:31.640 --> 0:57:34.760 we use the word legendary, it doesn't apply to everybody, 0:57:34.760 --> 0:57:39.240 but it definitely applies to you. So krudos. The platform, though, 0:57:39.280 --> 0:57:41.400 has been a couple of decades in the making, and 0:57:41.440 --> 0:57:43.680 then some how do you think about your platform and 0:57:43.680 --> 0:57:45.520 the responsibility of how you use it. 0:57:46.040 --> 0:57:49.120 Yeah, women's sports is at an interesting moment, you know, 0:57:49.200 --> 0:57:55.280 especially women's basketball, and for a good interesting right yeah, no, great, interesting. 0:57:55.400 --> 0:57:58.360 But what's interesting about it, maybe in a negative sense, 0:57:58.600 --> 0:58:03.600 is while the coverage has increased, what I've noticed is 0:58:03.800 --> 0:58:06.480 it's not always accurate. And it's really had me take 0:58:06.480 --> 0:58:08.840 a step back and be like, first of all, what 0:58:08.920 --> 0:58:11.120 else is inaccurate out there being told to us, you know, 0:58:11.200 --> 0:58:15.880 by trusted you know, places, trusted other trusted platforms. So 0:58:15.920 --> 0:58:17.760 I think for me when it comes to my platform, 0:58:17.800 --> 0:58:21.120 for so long while I was playing, it was about, 0:58:21.240 --> 0:58:24.840 you know, bringing a certain understanding to the game, right, 0:58:24.920 --> 0:58:27.600 using my platform for all kinds of good. Now I'm like, 0:58:27.640 --> 0:58:29.640 wait a minute, I got to make sure the stories 0:58:29.640 --> 0:58:31.960 that are being told are accurate. I got to make 0:58:32.000 --> 0:58:34.320 sure that when people are tuning into a game, they 0:58:34.360 --> 0:58:36.480 have a full understanding. So that's really where I feel 0:58:36.520 --> 0:58:39.160 like I can use my platform now as a retired player. 0:58:39.200 --> 0:58:43.040 It's also the way women women athletes have been portrayed. 0:58:43.120 --> 0:58:45.160 Like I was reading some things about the Olympics coming 0:58:45.200 --> 0:58:47.440 up in the Olympic Committee, have they been changing some 0:58:47.520 --> 0:58:49.320 of the standards and updating in terms of how they 0:58:49.320 --> 0:58:52.120 want media representation of women and it's not just how 0:58:52.160 --> 0:58:55.960 they look or kind of superficial stuff, but really. 0:58:55.760 --> 0:58:57.240 Just what they are achieving. 0:58:57.480 --> 0:58:59.840 That's important, so important, so important. 0:59:00.280 --> 0:59:03.520 I think what's beautiful about women, especially women's athletes, is 0:59:03.960 --> 0:59:07.560 we are dynamic. We've had to be, you know, for 0:59:07.600 --> 0:59:09.760 so long, we weren't getting the covers that we deserve, 0:59:09.840 --> 0:59:13.080 we weren't getting the credibility, so we had to be. 0:59:13.360 --> 0:59:15.520 We had to have different parts of us. So I 0:59:15.560 --> 0:59:18.200 think it is great to highlight those things. But to 0:59:18.240 --> 0:59:20.600 your point, not just about appearance, you know, not just 0:59:20.640 --> 0:59:22.160 about these these artificial things. 0:59:22.200 --> 0:59:23.840 So I love that the Olympic Committee is doing that. 0:59:23.880 --> 0:59:25.760 I want to talk a little bit about the Climate Pledge. 0:59:25.880 --> 0:59:29.680 So I'm curious, Cara, when you have conversations with companies, 0:59:30.560 --> 0:59:32.360 what is it Is it tough to get them to 0:59:32.400 --> 0:59:35.080 sign on or tell us kind of the environment here. 0:59:35.960 --> 0:59:39.080 Yeah, I think it's a huge commitment to sign on, 0:59:39.640 --> 0:59:42.400 and it certainly takes resources, and so I think it 0:59:42.440 --> 0:59:43.680 takes a leap of faith too. 0:59:43.920 --> 0:59:46.000 Not all of us know how we're going to get there. 0:59:46.080 --> 0:59:47.680 There are some things we know how to do, like 0:59:47.800 --> 0:59:50.560 electrifying fleet, and then there are other things like aviation 0:59:51.080 --> 0:59:53.480 where we know sustainable aviation feels part of it, but 0:59:53.520 --> 0:59:56.400 we don't know all of the solves, and so some 0:59:56.520 --> 0:59:58.720 of it is a bit of jumping into the fray 0:59:58.760 --> 1:00:00.720 and saying we know some of we're going to get there. 1:00:00.720 --> 1:00:03.360 And also we need to partner to figure out some 1:00:03.440 --> 1:00:06.080 of the other ways so which we don't necessarily know, 1:00:06.720 --> 1:00:08.840 and we need to change the game, right, So we 1:00:08.920 --> 1:00:11.960 need to figure out how we're going to come together 1:00:12.200 --> 1:00:15.360 and make new decisions together, put resources together, and also 1:00:15.440 --> 1:00:17.840 public private partnerships are a big part of it. So 1:00:17.840 --> 1:00:19.960 how do we come together and work in the cities 1:00:20.000 --> 1:00:23.120 where we all have employees or we have operations, and 1:00:23.240 --> 1:00:26.680 get cities to change their infrastructure, you know, and build 1:00:26.800 --> 1:00:30.440 differently the buildings that we're in, or put more rail in, 1:00:30.800 --> 1:00:33.080 or change our you know, the ways in which people 1:00:33.080 --> 1:00:34.800 commute and those kind of things as well. 1:00:35.080 --> 1:00:35.400 Well. 1:00:35.440 --> 1:00:37.560 Sue, was it like a no brainer for the Storm 1:00:37.600 --> 1:00:38.920 to sign the Climate Pledge? 1:00:39.680 --> 1:00:41.680 I was playing then, so I wasn't in those rooms. 1:00:42.320 --> 1:00:43.880 But that's true, yes. 1:00:43.680 --> 1:00:47.200 But knowing our franchise, knowing the ownership group, I'm sure, 1:00:47.280 --> 1:00:49.160 I'm sure it was a no brainer. They're very much 1:00:49.200 --> 1:00:53.760 an ownership group. That wants to help the world change. 1:00:53.840 --> 1:00:55.680 I mean it's a big statement, but at the same time, 1:00:55.720 --> 1:00:58.080 when you find the ways that you can have that impact, 1:00:58.320 --> 1:00:59.600 it's really not that big of a statement. 1:00:59.600 --> 1:01:00.600 You can really change the world. 1:01:00.640 --> 1:01:03.040 I always think about, like, you know, we all set 1:01:03.040 --> 1:01:05.240 out on a course, whether we go to school or 1:01:05.480 --> 1:01:07.360 we start working, and we think we're going to go 1:01:07.400 --> 1:01:08.800 this way, and then we start going a different way, 1:01:08.840 --> 1:01:12.040 And I'm curious about so, like what motivates you and 1:01:12.080 --> 1:01:14.560 how maybe that has evolved over the years to where 1:01:14.640 --> 1:01:15.280 you are today. 1:01:15.520 --> 1:01:17.240 Yeah, well, I'm very lucky. 1:01:17.280 --> 1:01:19.840 I say this from the start to be an athlete 1:01:20.120 --> 1:01:21.920 when you think back to childhood. When I think back 1:01:21.960 --> 1:01:24.160 to my childhood, I was just a kid that really 1:01:24.200 --> 1:01:26.760 liked playing, Like I just loved playing sports. And how 1:01:26.840 --> 1:01:28.840 lucky am I that that led to an actual career 1:01:28.880 --> 1:01:32.160 where I graduate college and immediately I have a job, 1:01:32.240 --> 1:01:35.040 a profession waiting for me. So I was super lucky 1:01:35.040 --> 1:01:39.320 in that sense. But throughout my career, motivations change. Right, 1:01:39.360 --> 1:01:42.800 there's the motivation early of maybe wanting to. 1:01:42.760 --> 1:01:44.360 Prove yourself in a field. 1:01:44.520 --> 1:01:47.160 Right, you haven't in my world, I haven't won the 1:01:47.240 --> 1:01:49.680 championship yet, I haven't won awards yet, so I have 1:01:49.800 --> 1:01:51.640 this grit about me that I want to prove it. 1:01:52.120 --> 1:01:54.520 But then that flips when you have done it and 1:01:54.560 --> 1:01:56.080 now you have to prove that it wasn't a fluke, 1:01:56.440 --> 1:01:57.960 and now you have to sustain and now you have 1:01:58.000 --> 1:02:00.200 to stay, for lack of a better on top with 1:02:00.240 --> 1:02:02.880 that mountain, which has a whole other type of challenge. 1:02:03.200 --> 1:02:05.440 And for me, as I kept doing that, then it 1:02:05.440 --> 1:02:08.200 became Okay, I've won the things, Now how can I 1:02:08.240 --> 1:02:09.600 actually have an impact on this? 1:02:10.000 --> 1:02:11.680 So it's really interesting how through. 1:02:11.480 --> 1:02:14.680 The course of my career I've had these these different moments, 1:02:14.720 --> 1:02:17.240 these different types of mountains, and trying to figure out 1:02:17.240 --> 1:02:19.840 how how to stay motivated. And again, I'm lucky I 1:02:19.840 --> 1:02:22.840 play a team sport. A lot of my motivation came 1:02:22.880 --> 1:02:26.080 within the locker room, within my team. I had teammates 1:02:26.080 --> 1:02:27.800 to look to whether they were pushing me or I 1:02:27.880 --> 1:02:31.160 was pushing them them seeing me succeed, me seeing them succeed, 1:02:31.480 --> 1:02:33.520 And that's really a big motivating factor for me. 1:02:34.080 --> 1:02:36.080 What about for you, Kara in terms of your job, 1:02:36.080 --> 1:02:37.920 and I think about your career too, You've been in 1:02:37.960 --> 1:02:42.440 Silicon Valley, different worlds in terms of sustainability, how do 1:02:42.480 --> 1:02:44.320 you think about, like what motivates you in terms of 1:02:44.360 --> 1:02:46.520 your choices and then wanted to be part of Amazon 1:02:46.560 --> 1:02:47.160 and their mission. 1:02:47.960 --> 1:02:49.560 Yeah, I think it's really interesting. 1:02:50.000 --> 1:02:52.880 I've worked in angios, I've worked in government, I've worked 1:02:52.920 --> 1:02:57.080 in now corporate America, and I think, you know, being 1:02:57.120 --> 1:03:00.200 on those teams and thinking about the different languages you 1:03:00.240 --> 1:03:00.560 have to. 1:03:00.480 --> 1:03:01.280 Be able to speak. 1:03:01.360 --> 1:03:04.440 I'm impact oriented, So what I really have been motivated 1:03:04.480 --> 1:03:07.320 by is trying to figure out a way I've always 1:03:07.360 --> 1:03:09.600 wanted to make a difference, wanted to make an impact 1:03:09.600 --> 1:03:11.920 on the world. I've worked on human rights issues, I've 1:03:11.920 --> 1:03:14.960 worked on environmental issues, and I want to figure out 1:03:15.040 --> 1:03:17.400 what is like how do I use the resources and 1:03:17.440 --> 1:03:20.360 the scale of whatever I'm working on to kind of 1:03:20.400 --> 1:03:23.760 make that change. And in NGOs you have influence in 1:03:23.800 --> 1:03:26.520 a different way. Government you have scale, you have policy 1:03:26.680 --> 1:03:29.600 changes you can make. In corporate America, you have resources, 1:03:29.640 --> 1:03:32.040 and you have a different kind of scale, and you 1:03:32.120 --> 1:03:34.200 have to kind of speak the language of the different 1:03:34.640 --> 1:03:37.720 team that you're on in the different kind of context 1:03:37.720 --> 1:03:38.080 you're in. 1:03:38.120 --> 1:03:40.120 But you have to remain authentic to. 1:03:40.120 --> 1:03:42.960 Yourself and you know, lead in the way that's going 1:03:43.000 --> 1:03:46.280 to make the folks around you understand the impact that 1:03:46.320 --> 1:03:48.600 you're trying to make and the context that you're in. 1:03:48.800 --> 1:03:51.760 How do you guys think about the next generation in particular? 1:03:52.240 --> 1:03:55.320 And let me go over to you. You know, I 1:03:55.360 --> 1:04:00.280 think about the next You really kind of change change 1:04:00.320 --> 1:04:03.200 the game, no pun intended, in terms of the attention 1:04:03.320 --> 1:04:08.320 that you've brought to certainly women's sports, women's basketball on 1:04:08.360 --> 1:04:11.000 the college level, and then of course on the professional level. 1:04:11.480 --> 1:04:16.320 Like you made a difference, Like it's huge, and I 1:04:16.360 --> 1:04:19.360 think young women need to see that. So how do 1:04:19.400 --> 1:04:20.360 you think about that? 1:04:21.000 --> 1:04:24.040 I mean, I've always taken great pride in that. I think, 1:04:24.080 --> 1:04:27.360 what's amazing about this younger generation? And I can kind 1:04:27.360 --> 1:04:29.720 of tell the story within a story, if you will. 1:04:30.560 --> 1:04:32.360 When I got towards the end of my career and 1:04:32.400 --> 1:04:35.920 we were doing things like CBA negotiations, it was really. 1:04:35.680 --> 1:04:36.680 The younger players. 1:04:36.920 --> 1:04:39.360 So if I'm by the way, at this point, I 1:04:39.400 --> 1:04:42.520 was like thirty seven and I was considered old still, like. 1:04:42.840 --> 1:04:44.040 It's so inert that out. 1:04:44.200 --> 1:04:45.680 I'm like, wait a minute, I old? Am I young? 1:04:47.000 --> 1:04:49.240 But we had you know, the younger players at that 1:04:49.280 --> 1:04:52.040 point in the WNBA were twenty one, So let's say 1:04:52.280 --> 1:04:55.920 twenty five, right, like this this age range, and for me, 1:04:56.280 --> 1:04:56.760 I had. 1:04:56.640 --> 1:05:00.200 Grown up in a era where we were. 1:05:00.120 --> 1:05:03.680 Fighting, but also just happy to have a league in 1:05:03.720 --> 1:05:06.400 a sense, you know, and I hesitate to use this term, 1:05:06.400 --> 1:05:07.800 but we're all very familiar with the shut up and 1:05:07.880 --> 1:05:09.320 dribble krinch. 1:05:09.320 --> 1:05:11.320 But that's really how it was. A little bit. We 1:05:11.320 --> 1:05:12.280 were happy to have a league. 1:05:12.280 --> 1:05:14.200 We didn't want to push too hard because oh, we 1:05:14.200 --> 1:05:16.680 don't want this taken away from us. And now, like 1:05:16.680 --> 1:05:18.640 I said, I'm in my late thirties, these players in 1:05:18.680 --> 1:05:21.280 their early twenties, so this younger generation you're alluding to, 1:05:21.640 --> 1:05:23.920 they were like no, no, no, no, no, Like we 1:05:23.960 --> 1:05:26.919 need charters, we need charter flights. What are we talking about? 1:05:26.960 --> 1:05:29.040 Like no, no, no, this locker room not good enough. 1:05:29.320 --> 1:05:33.320 And they really it wasn't an entitlement as much as 1:05:33.320 --> 1:05:36.240 it was this is what we deserve, right, this is 1:05:36.280 --> 1:05:39.760 what's right. And I think the combination of the two generations, 1:05:39.800 --> 1:05:42.560 if you will, in our last CBA negotiation is really 1:05:42.600 --> 1:05:46.120 what got us to a really promising place and it 1:05:46.120 --> 1:05:47.720 really set us up for the future. 1:05:48.360 --> 1:05:48.520 CAAR. 1:05:48.760 --> 1:05:51.960 For you and I know we've talked about sustainability is 1:05:52.000 --> 1:05:54.120 something that a younger generation looks about I have a 1:05:54.160 --> 1:05:56.680 twenty one year old daughter and she's turning the things over, 1:05:56.720 --> 1:05:59.960 looking at ingredients, Where was this made? What's the carbon footprint? 1:06:00.440 --> 1:06:00.520 Like? 1:06:00.600 --> 1:06:02.320 They matter and they care. 1:06:03.120 --> 1:06:05.680 So how do you think about what you guys need 1:06:05.680 --> 1:06:07.800 to do at Amazon in terms of the next generation? 1:06:08.600 --> 1:06:08.840 Yeah? 1:06:08.880 --> 1:06:12.120 I think increasingly this next generation they both care a lot. 1:06:12.120 --> 1:06:14.480 They're incredibly passionate, and they have a lot of anxiety 1:06:15.280 --> 1:06:16.960 about what's coming in, what the state. 1:06:16.800 --> 1:06:17.480 Of the world is. 1:06:17.720 --> 1:06:20.400 And so one of the things I think is our 1:06:20.480 --> 1:06:24.400 responsibility is one to act fast, to drive big solutions, 1:06:24.720 --> 1:06:27.400 but also to bring some optimism to it. We have time, 1:06:28.400 --> 1:06:30.080 we don't have a lot of time. We're in this 1:06:30.120 --> 1:06:33.240 decisive decade where we have to act now. We have 1:06:33.320 --> 1:06:36.200 to move very quickly, and so I think one of 1:06:36.200 --> 1:06:38.000 the things that we need to lead on is to 1:06:38.040 --> 1:06:41.200 show that there is there are solutions, but we need 1:06:41.240 --> 1:06:42.479 to deploy them now. 1:06:43.240 --> 1:06:44.840 We cannot wait any longer. 1:06:45.160 --> 1:06:47.240 So one of the things leaders need to do is 1:06:47.240 --> 1:06:50.400 to take those decisive actions. We need to make changes now, 1:06:50.480 --> 1:06:52.080 and we need to make them at scale. 1:06:52.680 --> 1:06:54.120 So I want to ask you, can you stand up 1:06:54.120 --> 1:06:55.480 for a second and show your T shirt? 1:06:55.600 --> 1:06:56.160 Stand up? 1:06:56.280 --> 1:06:56.560 Yeah? 1:06:56.640 --> 1:06:58.080 All right, look at this shirt. 1:06:58.560 --> 1:07:02.320 This is there is Yes, there's t shirt. 1:07:02.880 --> 1:07:05.680 I'm doing this because Caro, I want you to ask 1:07:05.720 --> 1:07:08.560 the question of Sue. I mean, these are incredible leaders, 1:07:08.600 --> 1:07:10.480 Like I just throw you in a bar and I 1:07:10.480 --> 1:07:11.520 can imagine the conversation. 1:07:11.800 --> 1:07:12.400 What do you want to ask? 1:07:12.400 --> 1:07:12.560 Sue? 1:07:12.640 --> 1:07:15.800 We've already had some really great conversations you about lots 1:07:15.800 --> 1:07:18.200 of things in New York and favorite shows and stuff 1:07:18.240 --> 1:07:21.000 like this. But one of the things is I was 1:07:21.000 --> 1:07:24.520 thinking about is you have so many different passions and interests, 1:07:24.520 --> 1:07:25.800 and we were talking about some of the things you 1:07:25.800 --> 1:07:28.560 could work on. And I'm sure you'll get approached all 1:07:28.680 --> 1:07:31.200 the time with ideas that people have for you, given 1:07:31.240 --> 1:07:34.600 your platform and your reach and how passionate you are 1:07:34.640 --> 1:07:36.440 about things. So how do you go about making decisions 1:07:36.480 --> 1:07:39.000 about what you want to spend your time on and 1:07:39.120 --> 1:07:43.560 how you use your platform and how you you know, 1:07:43.720 --> 1:07:45.960 all the things you could inspire the next generation to do. 1:07:46.000 --> 1:07:47.480 How do you make decisions about where you want to 1:07:47.480 --> 1:07:48.040 spend your time? 1:07:48.160 --> 1:07:50.920 Yeah, great question. Still working on it. You know. 1:07:51.080 --> 1:07:54.200 I'm only retired soon to be close to two years, 1:07:54.880 --> 1:07:57.360 which still feels really fresh and the best part about 1:07:57.400 --> 1:07:59.280 being an athlete was that was it, That was the 1:07:59.280 --> 1:08:01.560 north star, that the priority, and what you could fit 1:08:01.600 --> 1:08:04.160 in around that you would try, but that was always 1:08:04.160 --> 1:08:06.280 the guiding light, and that got you know, I don't 1:08:06.320 --> 1:08:08.920 have that anymore, so in a wonderful way. You know, 1:08:08.960 --> 1:08:11.280 I shouldn't complain. I have a ton of options, but 1:08:11.400 --> 1:08:13.760 like anybody who has that problem, you know there's a 1:08:13.800 --> 1:08:16.400 bandwidth situation. You got to worry about your own mental 1:08:16.439 --> 1:08:20.160 health in that way. So it's been tricky, but I 1:08:20.160 --> 1:08:23.400 think what I learned when I started working with brands 1:08:23.439 --> 1:08:25.640 as an athlete was you want to be aligned with 1:08:25.720 --> 1:08:28.519 your values. So I think that's really become like the 1:08:28.560 --> 1:08:31.000 guiding light. You want the values to be aligned with 1:08:31.040 --> 1:08:32.880 no matter who you're working with, whether it's a brand, 1:08:32.920 --> 1:08:34.760 a company, you know, the people you're going to go 1:08:34.800 --> 1:08:35.960 into partnership in business. 1:08:36.240 --> 1:08:37.360 You want to make sure that align. 1:08:37.400 --> 1:08:39.559 And I found that when that's there, when that's the 1:08:39.600 --> 1:08:42.760 baseline and the foundation, then you can start to maybe 1:08:42.800 --> 1:08:43.719 carve out things. 1:08:43.479 --> 1:08:44.360 You're passionate about. 1:08:44.680 --> 1:08:47.120 Then you can start to carve out things maybe that 1:08:47.680 --> 1:08:49.920 you think are going to have a larger impact. But 1:08:49.960 --> 1:08:51.880 as long as that foundation is there, then you can 1:08:51.920 --> 1:08:54.439 make your decisions based you know, on all the other 1:08:54.479 --> 1:08:56.200 things you might be interested in, and then of course 1:08:56.720 --> 1:08:59.600 the bandwidth part is really that's what I think I 1:08:59.640 --> 1:09:01.200 took on a little bit too much, to be honest, 1:09:01.200 --> 1:09:01.599 and now I'm. 1:09:01.479 --> 1:09:04.880 Littling back soon ash you have to say no, yeah, yeah, 1:09:05.040 --> 1:09:05.400 or no. 1:09:05.520 --> 1:09:09.800 The power of no, yeah yeah, turning the table yeah. 1:09:09.880 --> 1:09:12.960 So something that I know that I've encountered, especially at 1:09:13.040 --> 1:09:16.360 not especially being a woman, is at times I've walked 1:09:16.360 --> 1:09:19.760 into rooms and I've just kind of assumed that maybe 1:09:19.800 --> 1:09:21.639 I wasn't the smartest, so I didn't have enough experience 1:09:21.680 --> 1:09:23.839 of knowledge, and I can only imagine in the corporate 1:09:23.840 --> 1:09:25.840 world what that must be like as a woman walking 1:09:25.920 --> 1:09:28.760 into these different rooms. And I'm wondering if there is 1:09:28.800 --> 1:09:31.360 a either advice you want to share for up and 1:09:31.400 --> 1:09:34.160 coming women in this way, or maybe a moment where 1:09:34.160 --> 1:09:36.559 you were like, oh, no, like what I have to 1:09:36.560 --> 1:09:39.080 bring to this room is just, if not more important 1:09:39.080 --> 1:09:39.800 than everybody else. 1:09:40.800 --> 1:09:41.680 Yeah, I'm a. 1:09:41.680 --> 1:09:45.920 Little bit older than you, so I think it's it's 1:09:45.960 --> 1:09:49.240 taken a while, but one of the things I think 1:09:49.360 --> 1:09:52.479 is really important in order to be able to lead 1:09:52.680 --> 1:09:55.479 is to really just figure out who you are first 1:09:55.640 --> 1:09:58.439 and really own that and I think over the years, 1:09:58.640 --> 1:10:01.519 I'm just really understanding what you have to offer and 1:10:01.560 --> 1:10:05.479 the authenticity of your own experiences and just feeling that 1:10:05.560 --> 1:10:08.200 and owning it. And I think once you really live 1:10:08.280 --> 1:10:13.000 that in your own body, actually knowing and owning that experience, 1:10:13.080 --> 1:10:15.040 all that value that you've had, all that leadership that 1:10:15.080 --> 1:10:17.640 you have on the court, how valuable that is in 1:10:17.800 --> 1:10:21.040 any context. And it doesn't matter you haven't had business 1:10:21.080 --> 1:10:24.920 experience or you haven't had experience in xy situation. The 1:10:25.040 --> 1:10:30.080 leadership that you've been able to bring, you know, in 1:10:30.160 --> 1:10:35.960 an Olympic setting, point oh one percent of the world's 1:10:36.000 --> 1:10:38.960 population has been able to, you know, lead under that kind. 1:10:38.800 --> 1:10:39.400 Of a pressure. 1:10:39.720 --> 1:10:42.439 And so I think whatever that translates for for any 1:10:42.479 --> 1:10:45.639 of you, you know, to take a moment back, take 1:10:45.640 --> 1:10:47.800 a breath, and be like, I, you know, I got this, 1:10:48.040 --> 1:10:50.680 I've I can lead in that kind of a situation, 1:10:51.240 --> 1:10:54.320 and then just feel that, take a brath, you know, 1:10:54.400 --> 1:10:56.840 and own it. I think that we all need to 1:10:56.920 --> 1:10:58.840 just kind of remember sometimes who we are. 1:10:59.240 --> 1:11:01.599 All Right, just got fifty seconds, so this could be 1:11:01.640 --> 1:11:05.520 really quick. We started talking about platforms and using your platforms. 1:11:05.760 --> 1:11:08.680 Sue advice to everybody out there, everybody has a platform. 1:11:09.040 --> 1:11:11.160 What's your advice? What do you hope people walk away from? 1:11:11.320 --> 1:11:11.519 Yeah? 1:11:11.560 --> 1:11:14.960 I think I think at times the word platform can 1:11:15.000 --> 1:11:17.760 be almost intimidating because you think you have to have 1:11:18.040 --> 1:11:19.559 I said it kind of early. I touched on it earlier. 1:11:19.680 --> 1:11:22.240 YE like to say you want to change the world 1:11:22.360 --> 1:11:24.400 is such a big statement. It can be intimidating and like, 1:11:24.439 --> 1:11:26.280 do I have a platform? How big is my platform? 1:11:26.280 --> 1:11:27.439 How am I ever going to do that? But the 1:11:27.479 --> 1:11:31.040 reality is, if it's just one person that's going to 1:11:31.080 --> 1:11:33.000 ignite change. So I feel like at times you have 1:11:33.040 --> 1:11:36.720 to really zoom out from that intimidation factor and realize 1:11:36.760 --> 1:11:39.760 whether it's in your own home, your family, your community, 1:11:40.080 --> 1:11:42.280 whatever ways in which you can impact. Even if it's 1:11:42.360 --> 1:11:43.960 just one person, it's huge. 1:11:44.000 --> 1:11:45.360 Sorry, one Starson. 1:11:45.160 --> 1:11:47.000 Makes a difference. I love it all right, Carara. 1:11:47.720 --> 1:11:51.320 Real quick, I would just say, you know, remain optimistics 1:11:51.400 --> 1:11:55.280 because I think you know the beauty and being optimistic 1:11:55.320 --> 1:11:56.280 can have a lot of power. 1:11:56.920 --> 1:11:59.320 I'm gonna leave it there. I wish we had oodles 1:11:59.320 --> 1:12:01.800 of more time, Sue, Cara, thank you so much. 1:12:01.840 --> 1:12:03.080 Thank you everybody. 1:12:13.960 --> 1:12:17.479 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us 1:12:17.520 --> 1:12:20.759 live weekday afternoons from two to five pm Eastern Listen 1:12:20.800 --> 1:12:23.480 on Apple CarPlay and then Broute Auto with a Bloomberg 1:12:23.520 --> 1:12:26.639 Business at or watch us live on YouTube. 1:12:27.680 --> 1:12:30.599 Back in March, you might recall a SpaceX rocket made history. 1:12:30.960 --> 1:12:34.000 It blasted off carrying a special payload. Methane SAT a 1:12:34.080 --> 1:12:37.360 highly specialized satellite that can spot methane leaks from the 1:12:37.400 --> 1:12:41.599 oil and gas industry, the missions that other satellites can't see, 1:12:41.920 --> 1:12:46.360 and with it ushered in a new era of climate transparency. 1:12:45.760 --> 1:12:49.000 The goal to motivate and enable urgent action to reduce 1:12:49.120 --> 1:12:50.080 methane emissions. 1:12:50.240 --> 1:12:51.000 That's a quote. 1:12:51.200 --> 1:12:55.280 Methane SAT is a collaboration between organizations including aerospace companies, 1:12:55.520 --> 1:12:59.720 space agencies around the world, academic institutions, and the nonprofit 1:12:59.800 --> 1:13:03.080 and vironmental advocacy group, the Environmental Defense Fund. 1:13:03.200 --> 1:13:06.439 Steven Hamberg is senior vice president and chief Scientist at 1:13:06.479 --> 1:13:10.040 the Environmental Defense Funder DF. He's also the project leader 1:13:10.080 --> 1:13:12.960 of Methane SAT. He joined us from the Bloomberg Green 1:13:13.040 --> 1:13:14.120 Festival in Seattle. 1:13:14.240 --> 1:13:16.439 So what we need is a global picture, and we 1:13:16.479 --> 1:13:18.559 need to be able to figure out where are those 1:13:18.600 --> 1:13:21.720 emissions occurring, how much is being omitted, and how they're 1:13:21.800 --> 1:13:24.360 changing over time, and we need to do that across 1:13:24.400 --> 1:13:27.360 the entire sector. And we can do that with methane 1:13:27.400 --> 1:13:31.320 set because we designed it with such high precision and 1:13:31.880 --> 1:13:35.840 we are delivering the data as actionable data, meaning we're 1:13:36.000 --> 1:13:39.400 actually doing the processing to get it all the way 1:13:39.560 --> 1:13:43.680 to how much is being omitted from where where is 1:13:43.680 --> 1:13:45.640 this data going to go? So the data is going 1:13:45.680 --> 1:13:47.800 to be posted public, anybody can look at it. It's 1:13:47.800 --> 1:13:51.360 free of charge for any non commercial use. And it 1:13:51.360 --> 1:13:54.960 will also be of course ingested into systems that allow 1:13:55.040 --> 1:13:57.559 it to be able to be integrated into whether financial 1:13:57.560 --> 1:14:02.960 services or whether it's just into regulatory processes. And so 1:14:03.000 --> 1:14:05.639 we have a whole team because just producing data doesn't 1:14:05.720 --> 1:14:08.080 you guys know, it doesn't cause change, right, So we 1:14:08.160 --> 1:14:10.280 have a whole team from producing the data all the 1:14:10.320 --> 1:14:12.040 way through the actions. So there's a whole group that 1:14:12.120 --> 1:14:15.960 works with us on advocacy, ensuring that the stakeholders are engaged, 1:14:16.000 --> 1:14:18.120 that people understand how to use the data, because these 1:14:18.200 --> 1:14:20.200 date have never existed before. We have to get people 1:14:20.240 --> 1:14:21.360 to understand how to use them. 1:14:21.439 --> 1:14:24.000 Are the stakeholders engaged teams? So I'm sure some of 1:14:24.040 --> 1:14:25.640 them are going to be a little fearful right in 1:14:25.680 --> 1:14:27.120 terms of what this date is going to show. 1:14:27.320 --> 1:14:29.920 Absolutely, because it's going to show obviously those who are 1:14:29.960 --> 1:14:31.360 doing a good job and those who are not. 1:14:31.720 --> 1:14:33.400 Right, but absolutely so. 1:14:33.439 --> 1:14:37.200 The oil and gas industry knows that the things are changing, 1:14:37.640 --> 1:14:41.160 transparency will be part of the future. And we're seeing 1:14:41.439 --> 1:14:45.040 also in the financial industry, we're seeing a lot of interest. 1:14:45.120 --> 1:14:47.559 I just spent a lot of time going to many 1:14:47.600 --> 1:14:50.760 of the major financial institutions talking about this, so we 1:14:50.840 --> 1:14:53.719 are seeing engagement, but it's still early days. 1:14:54.200 --> 1:14:55.960 What are the financial institutions want to know? 1:14:56.680 --> 1:14:59.880 They want to know how the data is actionable, right, 1:15:00.200 --> 1:15:02.639 And part of it is a conversation, So we're asking 1:15:02.680 --> 1:15:05.320 what do you need to use it to make more 1:15:05.360 --> 1:15:07.800 informed decisions? And it's not just so we have the 1:15:07.800 --> 1:15:09.879 financial sector, but we also have regulars. 1:15:09.920 --> 1:15:10.720 What do you need to know? 1:15:10.800 --> 1:15:11.200 So we have. 1:15:11.200 --> 1:15:16.240 Multiple different stakeholder groups, including civil society, and we are 1:15:16.320 --> 1:15:19.960 working with those groups to make sure we understand what 1:15:20.040 --> 1:15:22.400 type of data will be most effective for them to 1:15:23.000 --> 1:15:25.639 take the actions they need to take. And that's again 1:15:25.760 --> 1:15:28.840 something no one's ever done before, creating these diverse products 1:15:29.080 --> 1:15:30.240 out of a single data stream. 1:15:30.640 --> 1:15:34.040 What is the action basic in the sense that we 1:15:34.080 --> 1:15:36.599 need to make sure we trap the methane that's being 1:15:36.680 --> 1:15:39.400 released into the atmosphere. Is that at its most fundamental, 1:15:39.439 --> 1:15:41.280 basic level at the point of this. 1:15:41.280 --> 1:15:42.479 Right so there's no need. 1:15:42.680 --> 1:15:45.960 So we know that almost all the emissions that occurring 1:15:46.000 --> 1:15:50.280 from the production of oil and gas don't have to happen. 1:15:50.360 --> 1:15:54.400 The technology exists, The emissions can be reduced cost effectively 1:15:54.400 --> 1:15:55.559 in almost all cases. 1:15:55.880 --> 1:15:58.639 And again we're not talking about the burning of fossil 1:15:58.680 --> 1:16:00.559 fuels as a result of the end user. 1:16:00.600 --> 1:16:04.480 We're talking about the production, the production and the transport. 1:16:04.520 --> 1:16:06.679 Most of it's occurring at the production and so it's 1:16:06.720 --> 1:16:10.439 what we refer to as upstream, and that actually the 1:16:10.439 --> 1:16:13.280 emissions are large enough right now that if you were 1:16:13.320 --> 1:16:15.519 to as I do. I have a natural gas boiler 1:16:15.560 --> 1:16:19.000 in my basement, and if I'm burning that natural gas, 1:16:19.520 --> 1:16:22.320 the impact on the climate over the next twenty years 1:16:22.320 --> 1:16:25.000 of my doing that half of it roughly comes from 1:16:25.040 --> 1:16:28.000 the methane loss before I ever burn it, and half 1:16:28.000 --> 1:16:29.439 from the CO two that's being admitted. 1:16:29.720 --> 1:16:32.040 Stephen, what do you think in terms of the general public, 1:16:32.280 --> 1:16:35.959 if they knew that is happening, like in their own homes, 1:16:36.160 --> 1:16:38.440 how it might change their activity and their actions. 1:16:38.840 --> 1:16:40.760 Well, I think the key is to give them options 1:16:40.800 --> 1:16:43.439 and to make sure that the suppliers of the gas 1:16:43.800 --> 1:16:47.479 are held accountable because you don't. It's it's absolutely clear 1:16:47.800 --> 1:16:51.160 there's a wide difference in these associated emissions, and there's 1:16:51.200 --> 1:16:55.400 nobody producing oil and gas who has to create these emissions. 1:16:55.640 --> 1:16:58.040 This is the technology exists. This is why this is 1:16:58.200 --> 1:17:00.559 not even low hanging fruit. This is fruit on the ground. 1:17:00.960 --> 1:17:04.200 Why haven't they done something? You know, this always blows 1:17:04.200 --> 1:17:06.519 my mind of like doing the right thing. Right, They've 1:17:06.520 --> 1:17:09.160 got to know that they're emitting this into the air. 1:17:09.520 --> 1:17:11.519 So when I started working on this fourteen years ago, 1:17:12.160 --> 1:17:16.439 the companies actually did not know. And as we collected 1:17:16.520 --> 1:17:20.280 data on the ground, not with satellites, there were surprises 1:17:20.320 --> 1:17:23.960 at every corner. And even today, most of the oil 1:17:23.960 --> 1:17:26.600 and gas companies have a very incomplete understanding of how 1:17:26.680 --> 1:17:29.240 much they're being emitted. So the key is to provide 1:17:29.320 --> 1:17:31.639 high quality data. We do not have enough high quality 1:17:31.680 --> 1:17:34.599 data about greenhouse gas emissions across the board. 1:17:35.200 --> 1:17:36.720 Is it just the oil and gas companies or are 1:17:36.720 --> 1:17:38.800 we seeing methane as a byproduct When it comes to 1:17:39.120 --> 1:17:40.639 the decomposition of trash at. 1:17:40.560 --> 1:17:43.519 Landfills, absolutely, so we have to think about all of 1:17:43.520 --> 1:17:46.040 the sources of methane. We focused on oil and gas 1:17:46.080 --> 1:17:50.800 first because of course it is economically so easy to do. 1:17:50.880 --> 1:17:52.439 I mean, it's literally no net cost. 1:17:52.479 --> 1:17:53.519 It's just got to get action. 1:17:54.120 --> 1:17:57.240 But we have to worry about waste and also agriculture 1:17:57.400 --> 1:18:02.559 is a very large source of which enteric fermentation, waste 1:18:02.600 --> 1:18:04.960 from animals, also rice production. 1:18:05.240 --> 1:18:07.080 But again there are tools we can use. 1:18:07.200 --> 1:18:08.600 It's more complicated. 1:18:08.080 --> 1:18:10.639 Because we're talking about many more actors and we're talking 1:18:10.720 --> 1:18:14.320 about a more complex system. But we are working New Zealand, 1:18:14.400 --> 1:18:16.920 who's a partner in the New Zealand Space Agency. They 1:18:16.960 --> 1:18:20.800 have a whole program to collect data from mething SAT 1:18:20.840 --> 1:18:24.320 on agriculture around the world, and we'll again build that 1:18:24.360 --> 1:18:26.639 picture so we can start to get some better action. 1:18:26.880 --> 1:18:28.960 You mentioned that as a partnership. What are the partnerships 1:18:28.960 --> 1:18:30.920 that you already have like in the work so that 1:18:30.960 --> 1:18:33.639 you anticipate are going to be coming in the future 1:18:33.720 --> 1:18:38.360 that will really kind of magnify the impact of this. 1:18:38.840 --> 1:18:42.600 So we have partnerships with the UN Environment Program, the 1:18:42.640 --> 1:18:46.120 International Methane Emissions Observatory, we have partnerships, as I said, 1:18:46.120 --> 1:18:51.120 with New Zealand Space agencies. We're partnering with philanthropic groups, right, 1:18:51.160 --> 1:18:53.120 So the vasos Earf Fund has been an integral part 1:18:53.200 --> 1:18:56.360 of the funding that to make this possible. Because we 1:18:57.040 --> 1:18:59.240 want to be able to provide this free, we also 1:18:59.320 --> 1:19:03.200 have partnership that allow us to get that data out 1:19:03.240 --> 1:19:04.479 into many people's hands. 1:19:04.800 --> 1:19:05.160 Stephen. 1:19:05.160 --> 1:19:07.240 As I mentioned, this was a really big deal when 1:19:07.240 --> 1:19:10.040 the satellite launched back in March. One of the reasons 1:19:10.080 --> 1:19:12.280 it was is because it has a complex set of 1:19:12.280 --> 1:19:14.519 instruments that allow it to see you with no other 1:19:14.560 --> 1:19:16.559 satellite has been able to see before. Talk about the 1:19:16.600 --> 1:19:19.599 tech on board here, like what gives you the power 1:19:19.960 --> 1:19:21.280 to be able to see this through space? 1:19:21.760 --> 1:19:23.920 Well, the real advantage of being here in the United 1:19:23.960 --> 1:19:27.519 States because we're taking advantage of technologies that at the 1:19:27.600 --> 1:19:30.600 very cutting edge, so it's itar protected, right. We have 1:19:30.800 --> 1:19:35.400 all kinds of controls appropriately and so we can provide 1:19:35.880 --> 1:19:39.520 a sensitivity so we can see very very small differences 1:19:39.520 --> 1:19:45.840 in concentration with these very highly specialized detectors. And then 1:19:46.080 --> 1:19:48.040 the kind of technology we have in the ability to 1:19:48.040 --> 1:19:48.639 put it together. 1:19:48.680 --> 1:19:50.040 We worked with Ball Aerospace. 1:19:50.160 --> 1:19:54.000 Now BAE would really the leading instrument maker probably in 1:19:54.000 --> 1:19:56.920 the world. They built the Hubble telescope, the Web telescope 1:19:57.120 --> 1:20:00.439 and really bringing that kind of level of technology and 1:20:00.600 --> 1:20:06.280 working with colleagues at Harvard University and also at Smithsonian 1:20:06.360 --> 1:20:08.880 Astrophysical Observatory. So we just got a lot of really 1:20:08.880 --> 1:20:12.720 smart people leaning in with the world's best technology so 1:20:12.760 --> 1:20:16.400 that we are able to really take the technology a 1:20:16.600 --> 1:20:17.679 major step forward. 1:20:17.960 --> 1:20:19.439 So when do we start to see lots. 1:20:19.240 --> 1:20:21.559 Of data, Well, lots of data will be the beginning 1:20:21.600 --> 1:20:23.960 of next year, but we start seeing data before will 1:20:24.000 --> 1:20:27.040 actually be doing We have an aircraft version and we 1:20:27.080 --> 1:20:29.160 will at the end of the month be actually releasing 1:20:29.200 --> 1:20:32.320 a comparison of oil and gas methane emissions across the 1:20:32.400 --> 1:20:34.840 United States that we collected from the air with a 1:20:34.920 --> 1:20:37.760 very comparable instrument. And then we will be releasing data 1:20:37.760 --> 1:20:39.240 because one of the things we have to make sure 1:20:39.320 --> 1:20:42.000 is that we really are confident that the data is 1:20:42.040 --> 1:20:45.320 solid and that is fully validated, calibrated. So we're taking 1:20:45.360 --> 1:20:47.599 our time because we need to make sure we get 1:20:47.600 --> 1:20:47.880 it right. 1:20:48.040 --> 1:20:49.679 How do you do that? How do you make sure 1:20:49.720 --> 1:20:52.640 because you know they'll ben sayers and probably people challenging you, 1:20:52.960 --> 1:20:54.559 and we do want to make sure you get it right. 1:20:54.600 --> 1:20:56.360 So how do you make sure that the information that's 1:20:56.360 --> 1:20:57.519 collected is accurate. 1:20:57.640 --> 1:21:00.280 So, of course, and we want people to chat just 1:21:00.320 --> 1:21:01.920 as we need to get we're doing something new, you 1:21:01.960 --> 1:21:03.800 want to make sure you get it right, as you said, 1:21:04.000 --> 1:21:07.080 So what do you do? There are sensors around the 1:21:07.120 --> 1:21:09.680 world that actually look up and give you data, and 1:21:09.720 --> 1:21:12.040 you compare what you're seeing down to what's going up. 1:21:12.360 --> 1:21:14.759 We also have data that we've collected in other means 1:21:14.760 --> 1:21:18.479 from places, so we compare our results to those, and 1:21:18.520 --> 1:21:20.559 we also ask because we have to do a lot 1:21:20.560 --> 1:21:24.679 of modeling to get the final result, there's the last step. 1:21:24.960 --> 1:21:28.439 So we already have f teams outside of our team 1:21:28.840 --> 1:21:31.360 taking the data and modeling, and then we compare the results. 1:21:31.640 --> 1:21:34.040 We're right now literally in the middle of a benchmarking 1:21:34.080 --> 1:21:36.800 study working with funding for the National Science Foundation to 1:21:36.840 --> 1:21:41.160 collect very intensive data with aircraft and with the satellite 1:21:41.360 --> 1:21:44.120 so that we can then create a basically a lab 1:21:44.200 --> 1:21:46.400 a laboratory in which people can analyze it and we 1:21:46.439 --> 1:21:48.679 can see how it varies and really learn from each other. 1:21:48.880 --> 1:21:51.200 So if all goes according to plan, what's the conversation 1:21:51.240 --> 1:21:53.320 that we're having ten years from now? Are we talking 1:21:53.360 --> 1:21:56.479 about a decline in the mathane emissions that have been 1:21:56.520 --> 1:21:59.719 released as a result of the imaging technology that you developed. 1:22:00.080 --> 1:22:03.880 Go ten years, five four and two years from now, 1:22:03.920 --> 1:22:07.200 we will have so much more data than well, basically 1:22:07.280 --> 1:22:09.599 we've collected more data in the next two years than 1:22:09.800 --> 1:22:12.599 we've ever collected before. We will have It's like we're 1:22:12.600 --> 1:22:14.479 going to put on a sharp pair of really high 1:22:14.560 --> 1:22:17.920 quality glasses, and greenhouse gas emissions across oil and gas 1:22:17.960 --> 1:22:20.240 will come into focus in a way we've never had. 1:22:20.520 --> 1:22:24.000 We need to replicate that across methane sources and other 1:22:24.040 --> 1:22:24.719 greenhouse gas. 1:22:24.720 --> 1:22:25.479 But are those oil. 1:22:25.280 --> 1:22:29.000 Companies going to just respond by capping their methane and 1:22:29.000 --> 1:22:29.479 mission It's not. 1:22:29.600 --> 1:22:31.760 That's why it's not just me. It's the whole data 1:22:31.800 --> 1:22:34.240 to action pipeline. It has to be about bringing the 1:22:34.280 --> 1:22:39.960 many actors, whether those are financial institutions, governments, investors, policy 1:22:40.000 --> 1:22:44.519 makers collectively. I'm confident because you're already seeing the industry. 1:22:44.560 --> 1:22:45.040 They're not high. 1:22:45.400 --> 1:22:46.360 They're making commitments. 1:22:46.400 --> 1:22:50.360 At the Conference of the Parties last December, fifty two companies, 1:22:50.720 --> 1:22:53.920 mainly national oil companies, all committed to minimizing their oil 1:22:53.960 --> 1:22:55.840 and gas missions. They got ahead of it because they 1:22:55.840 --> 1:22:58.600 realized this is going to affect them well, now we 1:22:58.640 --> 1:23:01.800 will have the data to see great, congratulate them they're 1:23:01.840 --> 1:23:03.920 doing the job, or saying, in fact, you haven't met 1:23:03.960 --> 1:23:04.519 your commitments. 1:23:04.680 --> 1:23:07.360 Just got about thirty seconds LEFTO. So what's still challenging 1:23:07.400 --> 1:23:08.799 though in this mission mission? 1:23:09.000 --> 1:23:12.080 Well, I think the challenging is to provide these kinds 1:23:12.080 --> 1:23:14.760 of high quality data for the first time and make 1:23:14.800 --> 1:23:19.519 sure they're really of that quality. That's challenging the team, 1:23:19.680 --> 1:23:22.760 But everybody's committed. This is a team effort. We have 1:23:22.840 --> 1:23:26.840 people from commercial sector, we have people from academia, we 1:23:26.840 --> 1:23:30.040 have people from government, all leaning in to produce the best, 1:23:30.360 --> 1:23:34.479 highest quality data and provide the very first sector wide 1:23:34.600 --> 1:23:38.040 greenhouse gas emissions profile with empirical data for theirs time 1:23:38.040 --> 1:23:39.240 will actually know what's happening. 1:23:39.280 --> 1:23:40.840 Okay, be honest, did any part If you want to 1:23:40.920 --> 1:23:44.360 ride with that rocket with that satellite, I get motion sickness. 1:23:44.560 --> 1:23:46.000 So no, that's a. 1:23:46.640 --> 1:23:47.680 That's a absolute no. 1:23:47.880 --> 1:23:49.479 Listen. It's one of those things that you need all 1:23:49.520 --> 1:23:52.280 of like public, private, everybody kind of in the game. 1:23:52.320 --> 1:23:54.160 If you will, Stephen, thank you so much. Look forward 1:23:54.200 --> 1:23:56.000 to as the data starts to come out the next 1:23:56.000 --> 1:23:57.200 few months. I'd like they're crucial. 1:23:57.360 --> 1:23:58.479 Thank you for having me, you bet. 1:23:58.479 --> 1:24:01.759 Steven Hamberg, Senior vice president scientist at the Environmental Defense 1:24:01.840 --> 1:24:04.520 Bound Right here at the Bloomberg Green Festival. 1:24:04.200 --> 1:24:09.320 In CM, you're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. 1:24:09.600 --> 1:24:12.560 Listen live each weekday starting at two pm Eastern not 1:24:12.720 --> 1:24:15.960 Applecar Play and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business Ad. 1:24:16.200 --> 1:24:19.040 You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our 1:24:19.080 --> 1:24:23.760 flagship New York station. Just say Alexa Play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 1:24:25.240 --> 1:24:28.759 Long haul international flights are picking up at a record pace. 1:24:29.200 --> 1:24:32.600 According to a Bloomberg Big Take published last summer, international 1:24:32.600 --> 1:24:35.200 air travel's share of CO two output is set to 1:24:35.200 --> 1:24:39.439 climb dramatically as other segments decarbonize, to an estimated twenty 1:24:39.520 --> 1:24:42.519 two percent by twenty fifty from about two percent today. 1:24:42.560 --> 1:24:44.479 All right, that's a big difference. So how do we 1:24:44.520 --> 1:24:48.799 get there? Sustainable aviation? Fuel ev talls or battery powered 1:24:48.880 --> 1:24:53.280 electric vertical takeoff and landing aircraft Ernexcus says that the 1:24:53.520 --> 1:24:55.840 only way to get there hydrogen. 1:24:56.200 --> 1:24:59.080 Val Miftakoff is the founder and CEO of zero Avia. 1:24:59.320 --> 1:25:01.800 It's a company that says it's developing the world's first 1:25:01.880 --> 1:25:05.280 zero emissions engines for commercial aviation. He joined us from 1:25:05.280 --> 1:25:07.320 the Bloomberg Green Festival in Seattle. 1:25:07.600 --> 1:25:11.000 So we develop new generation of engines for commercial aviation, 1:25:11.240 --> 1:25:15.000 large aircraft going long distances taking a lot of passengers. 1:25:15.680 --> 1:25:19.000 So I think the prime solution for that is hydrogen 1:25:19.040 --> 1:25:21.880 is fuel and then hydrogen fuel sales and electric powertrain 1:25:22.000 --> 1:25:24.040 to bring the aircraft into. 1:25:23.880 --> 1:25:24.599 The new future. 1:25:24.760 --> 1:25:25.519 How far can it go? 1:25:26.600 --> 1:25:27.080 It can go? 1:25:27.280 --> 1:25:30.200 Actually, so we have different programs. Yeah, we start with 1:25:30.200 --> 1:25:32.360 a small aircraft and then go larger and larger. The 1:25:32.479 --> 1:25:35.120 largest aircraft so that we can reapower will go the 1:25:35.160 --> 1:25:38.679 same distance as you know London for example, right, So 1:25:39.000 --> 1:25:41.720 we believe that within the next twenty years or so 1:25:41.760 --> 1:25:45.160 we will have engines for aircraft of that size and 1:25:45.520 --> 1:25:47.400 being able to go that type of distance. 1:25:47.600 --> 1:25:50.000 Do you have to build entirely new aircraft or can 1:25:50.040 --> 1:25:52.160 you strap a parodise for. 1:25:53.479 --> 1:25:56.960 Those distances You would have to modify the aircraft. Generally, 1:25:57.000 --> 1:25:59.439 you can get to about half the maximum range off 1:25:59.479 --> 1:26:03.439 the fossil fuel aircraft without modification of the aircraft or 1:26:03.479 --> 1:26:06.760 with minor modifications. Yeah, and that's our first launch will 1:26:06.800 --> 1:26:09.160 be like that. And then we work already with the 1:26:09.200 --> 1:26:12.480 aircraft manufacturers. You know, Airbus is one of our major investors. 1:26:12.479 --> 1:26:15.599 For example, we'll already work with aircraft manufacturers on what's 1:26:15.640 --> 1:26:19.479 called clean sheet design, where they design aircraft around our engines. 1:26:19.880 --> 1:26:21.200 Well why twenty years? 1:26:22.439 --> 1:26:25.160 Well, you know if you look at the current engines, Yeah, 1:26:25.160 --> 1:26:28.840 those beautiful things, huge engines off the wings. 1:26:28.600 --> 1:26:31.360 Of the aircraft from nineteen sixties. 1:26:31.439 --> 1:26:34.960 Yeah, and actually even before that, right, so right after 1:26:35.000 --> 1:26:37.200 the World War Two the first jet engines were. 1:26:37.040 --> 1:26:40.559 Developed, so we had almost one hundred years of development, 1:26:40.840 --> 1:26:44.640 if you will, right, So twenty years is not that 1:26:44.840 --> 1:26:47.639 huge of a time really, right, But it's what takes 1:26:47.640 --> 1:26:49.760 to get to technology up to that level. 1:26:49.800 --> 1:26:51.680 All right, now Mother Earth is calling and saying we're 1:26:51.720 --> 1:26:54.440 running out of time. My point is, if the technology 1:26:54.479 --> 1:26:56.400 is there, is it a case of those engines are 1:26:56.400 --> 1:26:59.759 really expensive, those planes are really expensive, and the cost 1:26:59.840 --> 1:27:02.599 of that changeover is what's holding things back. 1:27:02.960 --> 1:27:04.439 Yeah, that's a significant component. 1:27:04.520 --> 1:27:07.519 Yeah, especially in aviation because you know, you look at 1:27:07.520 --> 1:27:09.560 our don't motif market, right, And my previous company was 1:27:09.600 --> 1:27:12.280 in the EV space, electric vehicle space, and there you 1:27:12.360 --> 1:27:15.400 have the lifetime of vehicle is just ten years. And 1:27:15.479 --> 1:27:18.479 we've been already since Tesla delivered more or less, it's 1:27:18.479 --> 1:27:21.760 been already been fourteen years, but we're still below ten 1:27:21.760 --> 1:27:25.120 percent of the fleet, right converted in aviation, it's even worse. 1:27:25.520 --> 1:27:29.920 The lifetime all the commercial aircraft's thirty years. So you know, 1:27:29.960 --> 1:27:32.679 if it will take several generations, then we're not there 1:27:32.720 --> 1:27:36.000 by twenty one hundred, you know, So we need to 1:27:36.040 --> 1:27:38.840 really push from the government side, from the operator side 1:27:38.880 --> 1:27:40.840 for fleet replacement very much. 1:27:40.880 --> 1:27:43.640 Sooner sounds great. You still need to get the hydrogen though, 1:27:44.240 --> 1:27:45.280 Where do you get the hydrogen? 1:27:45.760 --> 1:27:46.000 Yeah? 1:27:46.040 --> 1:27:48.120 Well, and we're here in Washington State, right, which is 1:27:48.120 --> 1:27:51.120 great because the grad is large and renewable, so we 1:27:51.240 --> 1:27:54.479 believe in breeding hydrogen production. We actually make all of 1:27:54.479 --> 1:27:56.440 our fuel for our testing ourselves. 1:27:56.479 --> 1:27:57.920 So that uses a lot of electricity. 1:27:58.000 --> 1:27:59.280 Yeah, it used a lot of tricy. 1:27:59.320 --> 1:28:02.479 But you need electricity anyway to electrify, right, So you 1:28:02.560 --> 1:28:06.439 need energy, you need primary energy. Now, hydrogen electric approach, 1:28:06.520 --> 1:28:09.160 the approach that we have is the most efficient way 1:28:09.200 --> 1:28:11.640 to use that energy. So think about hydrogen in our 1:28:11.680 --> 1:28:15.880 aircraft is effectually an energy carrier. 1:28:15.600 --> 1:28:16.719 For renewable energy. 1:28:17.320 --> 1:28:19.760 Is that the batteries are to have a fundamentally too 1:28:19.800 --> 1:28:24.160 heavy right, Theoretically you cannot make them light enough for you. 1:28:24.160 --> 1:28:25.880 Can make it a lighter then today. 1:28:26.040 --> 1:28:28.000 Yeah, but it's still not going to be sufficient for 1:28:28.000 --> 1:28:31.040 a large aircraft going long distances. Hydrogen is the best 1:28:31.040 --> 1:28:34.880 carrier of that energy, so nothing else will really work. Right, 1:28:35.040 --> 1:28:40.360 And sustainable aviation fuel you mentioned, Yeah, the small portion 1:28:40.520 --> 1:28:44.000 of that can be made with bio stock by a feedstock, 1:28:44.400 --> 1:28:48.280 but this can repower less than ten percent off aviation. 1:28:48.840 --> 1:28:51.240 For everything else you would have to go what's called 1:28:51.280 --> 1:28:55.320 e fuels, electro fuels which start with green hydrogen and 1:28:55.360 --> 1:28:58.960 then add carbon culture, then adds additional chemical process and 1:28:59.000 --> 1:29:01.679 all that. The cost of that is so much higher 1:29:01.680 --> 1:29:04.840 than utilizing hydrogen and hydrogen electric that we think that, 1:29:05.200 --> 1:29:08.400 you know, we'll have some transition period with biofuels and 1:29:08.439 --> 1:29:11.120 then hydrogen electric is what will take us to the 1:29:11.160 --> 1:29:11.719 real future. 1:29:12.080 --> 1:29:14.040 What do we need in terms of government policy you 1:29:14.040 --> 1:29:17.080 mentioned the government involvement what specifically. 1:29:16.880 --> 1:29:19.080 Yeah, so we need and you know we have some 1:29:19.080 --> 1:29:20.400 blooprins the government to lead. 1:29:20.479 --> 1:29:21.320 Yeah, we have. 1:29:21.280 --> 1:29:23.439 Some blooprint galraty from the ev industry. Right. 1:29:23.479 --> 1:29:25.680 So a lot of the transition was driven by the 1:29:25.720 --> 1:29:28.639 progressive governments like California for instance, right with the low 1:29:28.640 --> 1:29:31.600 carbon fuel standards, with emission standards and then you know, 1:29:31.640 --> 1:29:35.920 there's some examples outside of the US, like Norway for instance. Right, 1:29:36.000 --> 1:29:40.120 great policies to bring ninety percent plus new vehicles being 1:29:40.120 --> 1:29:44.560 sold are electric. So policies like that for fleet modernization 1:29:45.000 --> 1:29:47.400 will be super important. And we are launching our first 1:29:47.439 --> 1:29:49.519 commercial products within the next two years. 1:29:49.840 --> 1:29:51.920 So we're talking to the government saying, hey, you know, 1:29:51.960 --> 1:29:53.120 the technology is there. 1:29:53.320 --> 1:29:57.240 We're now officially in certification with the regulators across the 1:29:57.280 --> 1:30:00.960 world and it will get here before or you know, 1:30:01.080 --> 1:30:02.360 two years, three years out. 1:30:02.479 --> 1:30:03.920 So we need the policies right. 1:30:03.800 --> 1:30:06.760 Now, what does that route look like. We're the operators 1:30:06.800 --> 1:30:09.320 who are taking that plant. Yeah, so we need buy 1:30:09.400 --> 1:30:13.560 in from all constituents here. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. 1:30:13.600 --> 1:30:16.960 So we already have over two thousand engines on our 1:30:17.080 --> 1:30:21.240 order book, which is give or take ten billion dollars 1:30:21.280 --> 1:30:23.600 worth of future revenues already pre booked. 1:30:24.120 --> 1:30:26.760 We have announced the production facility actually right here in 1:30:26.800 --> 1:30:27.880 the Everts. 1:30:27.920 --> 1:30:29.600 Our first production facility are going to be in the 1:30:29.640 --> 1:30:31.120 state of Washington, which is straight. 1:30:32.640 --> 1:30:32.960 History. 1:30:33.200 --> 1:30:38.360 Yeah, we're taking over Collins Airspace engine production. 1:30:38.520 --> 1:30:40.679 So it's like a great story, you know, fossil fuel. 1:30:40.720 --> 1:30:43.519 So right, so we already have demands. 1:30:43.600 --> 1:30:43.760 Right. 1:30:43.800 --> 1:30:46.200 So you mentioned the last airlines, right, they're our customer, 1:30:46.240 --> 1:30:50.080 they're our investor. We have United America and British Airways Amazon. 1:30:50.760 --> 1:30:55.160 So ecosystem is already supportive. I mentioned Airbus. Yeah, we 1:30:55.360 --> 1:30:59.800 just signed also the world's largest deal with all three 1:30:59.800 --> 1:31:04.360 mad airports in Canada for example, Vancouver, Montreal and Toronto 1:31:04.640 --> 1:31:08.240 plus Airbus and US together to bring them to hydrogen future. 1:31:08.360 --> 1:31:08.559 Right. 1:31:08.720 --> 1:31:13.599 So the ecosystem is getting around this vision. Now will 1:31:13.680 --> 1:31:16.760 need the governments to really push it, help us push it. 1:31:16.800 --> 1:31:19.160 Is that the biggest challenges is it just you need 1:31:19.160 --> 1:31:20.879 the government buy in to be able bit more aggressive 1:31:20.920 --> 1:31:21.080 with that. 1:31:21.160 --> 1:31:22.800 Yeah, yeah, and in two ways. 1:31:22.880 --> 1:31:23.040 Right. 1:31:23.040 --> 1:31:25.840 So we are now in certification, which means that we're 1:31:25.880 --> 1:31:29.160 working with government regulators to bring it to the markets. 1:31:29.240 --> 1:31:32.240 And we need the right level of priority to this project. 1:31:32.240 --> 1:31:35.640 And then once it's done, actual help in bringing the 1:31:35.680 --> 1:31:36.040 fleets on. 1:31:36.200 --> 1:31:38.000 Say you're getting on a plane to London. What year 1:31:38.040 --> 1:31:39.679 will that plane be powered by your engines? 1:31:40.640 --> 1:31:42.680 It will be powered. We will have engines like that 1:31:42.720 --> 1:31:43.479 by twenty forty. 1:31:43.920 --> 1:31:45.040 All right, countdown, it's on. 1:31:45.720 --> 1:31:48.320 Not sooner. I told you Mother Earth is come. 1:31:48.760 --> 1:31:52.120 I'm realistic, right, So you know, it's a lot of 1:31:52.160 --> 1:31:54.960 a lot of startups out there. You know they say 1:31:55.000 --> 1:31:57.519 things that they cannot deliver and that they fall on 1:31:57.560 --> 1:31:58.080 their faces. 1:31:58.120 --> 1:32:00.360 You know, well, good to check in look next time. 1:32:00.360 --> 1:32:03.040 Already about Michter, co founder and CEO of zero auvia 1:32:03.160 --> 1:32:04.400 right here at the Green Festival. 1:32:04.920 --> 1:32:09.560 This is the Bloomberg Business Week podcast, available on Apple, Spotify, 1:32:09.720 --> 1:32:13.439 and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live weekday 1:32:13.439 --> 1:32:17.040 afternoons from two to five pm Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, 1:32:17.080 --> 1:32:20.400 the iHeartRadio app, tune In, and the Bloomberg Business App. 1:32:20.479 --> 1:32:23.520 You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube 1:32:23.640 --> 1:32:25.639 and always on the Bloomberg terminal.