WEBVTT - Jim Palmer joins Halo Territory 0:00:06.320 --> 0:00:09.200 Well, hey Angel fans, and welcome back to Halo Territory 0:00:09.200 --> 0:00:12.160 on Mike D. Giovanni, former Eli Times Baseball writer, joined 0:00:12.200 --> 0:00:15.280 by Mark Trumbo, my regular co host and former Angel slugger. 0:00:15.760 --> 0:00:17.640 And if you're watching us on YouTube, you can see 0:00:17.680 --> 0:00:21.000 we have a very special guest today, Jim Palmer, the 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:24.360 Hall of Fame pitcher, the three time Cy Young Award winner, 0:00:24.440 --> 0:00:29.360 the three time World Series champion, h and broadcast analysts 0:00:29.400 --> 0:00:33.480 for the Baltimore Orioles. Jim, really appreciate you joining us today. 0:00:33.520 --> 0:00:34.080 How you doing. 0:00:35.040 --> 0:00:37.120 I'm good. Thanks, nice to be with. 0:00:37.120 --> 0:00:40.519 You, all right, Really appreciate it. So we thought, in 0:00:40.600 --> 0:00:43.559 the wake of the Angels sell off at the trade deadline, 0:00:43.640 --> 0:00:46.800 it would be interesting to examine the challenges for teams 0:00:46.840 --> 0:00:50.400 that are quote unquote playing out the string. How guys 0:00:50.400 --> 0:00:53.080 approached the final two months of a season in which 0:00:53.080 --> 0:00:54.440 they have nothing to play for. 0:00:56.000 --> 0:00:56.160 Now. 0:00:56.280 --> 0:00:59.840 Jim Palmer has never experienced that as a player. This 0:01:00.120 --> 0:01:01.640 is hard. I looked it up. I couldn't believe this. 0:01:01.720 --> 0:01:01.880 Jim. 0:01:01.960 --> 0:01:04.920 The Orioles had one losing season in your twenty two 0:01:05.080 --> 0:01:09.680 years in Baltimore. But as an Oriols TV analyst, there's 0:01:09.720 --> 0:01:13.039 no better example than twenty eighteen. The Orioles were thirty 0:01:13.080 --> 0:01:15.840 two and seventy five and forty two games back on 0:01:15.920 --> 0:01:18.880 July thirty first, and they traded away a big chunk 0:01:18.880 --> 0:01:25.720 of the MLB roster, including Manny Machado, Zach Britton, Kevin Gossman, 0:01:26.520 --> 0:01:31.160 Jonathan Shoop and others in a matter of days. Now 0:01:31.240 --> 0:01:34.880 Jim as a broadcaster and a franchise icon. What was 0:01:34.880 --> 0:01:38.240 that period like inside the organization and especially for the 0:01:38.280 --> 0:01:38.840 fan base. 0:01:40.040 --> 0:01:42.440 Well, obviously the fan base wasn't happy. I mean, this 0:01:42.640 --> 0:01:47.920 was the team, you know that, well twenty fourteen and 0:01:47.960 --> 0:01:50.160 again Mark wasn't there. I think Mark Urud did what 0:01:50.240 --> 0:01:53.560 twenty and sixteen when he led the American League at 0:01:53.560 --> 0:01:56.880 home runs with forty seven, But in the club, you know, 0:01:57.000 --> 0:01:59.720 so what they were ninety six and sixty sixty two 0:02:00.120 --> 0:02:04.120 in fourteen, fifteen, eighty one and eighty one, seen eighty 0:02:04.200 --> 0:02:07.040 nine and seventy three marks first year there, and then 0:02:07.080 --> 0:02:09.720 progressively if you look, I mean, seventy five and eighty seven, 0:02:09.760 --> 0:02:11.359 and then they would end up what forty. 0:02:11.160 --> 0:02:12.200 Seven, one hundred and fifteen. 0:02:12.600 --> 0:02:16.200 Yeah, I think I don't think he really wanted to 0:02:16.240 --> 0:02:19.640 sign in Baltimore, even you know, years earlier, Dan Toquet 0:02:19.639 --> 0:02:21.360 was the general manager. He said, do you think Manny 0:02:21.400 --> 0:02:25.240 would what's sign an extension? I go, well, I'll go 0:02:25.280 --> 0:02:25.800 ask him. 0:02:26.080 --> 0:02:27.639 So early on. 0:02:27.720 --> 0:02:30.120 This is not twenty eighteen. This is like, you know, 0:02:30.200 --> 0:02:32.280 he's you know, I've had some knee problems. He had 0:02:32.280 --> 0:02:34.400 both lika mins and is right and left knee fixed 0:02:35.120 --> 0:02:39.880 by I think alatrosh Elatroshi. And I went down the cage. 0:02:39.880 --> 0:02:41.359 I said, hey, would you sign the sentient? He said, 0:02:41.400 --> 0:02:43.799 of course. But again, when you go into your free 0:02:43.840 --> 0:02:47.480 agent year, things change and guys are making more money 0:02:47.480 --> 0:02:50.359 and whatever. So this is a club that got aggressively worse. 0:02:50.400 --> 0:02:52.880 I mean, Mark was there. I mean, I mean I 0:02:52.919 --> 0:02:54.960 did four and thirty two finishes with the Oriels. I 0:02:54.960 --> 0:02:58.440 did fourteen straight losing years, you know, from like nineteen 0:02:58.520 --> 0:03:01.360 eighty nine, all the way till when Showwater came I think, 0:03:01.400 --> 0:03:04.800 and came what twenty eleven at their first winning year 0:03:04.800 --> 0:03:08.600 in twenty twelve. So obviously, when you're as good as 0:03:08.600 --> 0:03:11.680 the Ools were, you know, now as they were in 0:03:11.800 --> 0:03:13.919 ninety you know in two thousand. 0:03:13.680 --> 0:03:13.840 What. 0:03:15.360 --> 0:03:16.640 Ninety seven, we're in the playoffs. 0:03:16.720 --> 0:03:19.200 Yeah, right, exactly, Well, I mean go way back in 0:03:19.240 --> 0:03:22.160 and also team so again, you know, the fan expected 0:03:22.200 --> 0:03:24.320 him to be better than they were. But Dan Duke 0:03:24.639 --> 0:03:27.480 was saying, Okay, we're not winning. I mean, like I said, 0:03:27.480 --> 0:03:29.400 we ended up forty seven and a hundred and fifteen. 0:03:29.880 --> 0:03:32.320 Let's get the best deals we can. I'm not really 0:03:32.360 --> 0:03:35.839 sure they did, because they probably waited a year long 0:03:36.080 --> 0:03:40.200 longer to trade Manny Machiado than they should have. Yeah, 0:03:40.480 --> 0:03:44.200 that's always a really tough one. Manny I think one 0:03:44.240 --> 0:03:47.120 of the most understood players in the game. He was 0:03:47.160 --> 0:03:50.200 an excellent teammate and I just wanted to get that 0:03:50.240 --> 0:03:53.560 part in there. This is the first time the Angels 0:03:53.560 --> 0:03:56.960 have really leaned into people don't like to use the 0:03:57.240 --> 0:04:00.440 R word, but you know, you get walks like a duck, 0:04:00.640 --> 0:04:04.600 you're gonna call it a duck. So what I'm wondering, 0:04:04.600 --> 0:04:06.520 if you can help the fans, what what does a 0:04:06.840 --> 0:04:12.120 rebuild feel like for for the players, for the broadcasters, 0:04:12.160 --> 0:04:16.960 for you know, people that are day to day involved, 0:04:17.520 --> 0:04:19.760 having to kind of, you know, put their best effort 0:04:19.760 --> 0:04:22.320 forward knowing the wins aren't aren't going to pile up. 0:04:23.440 --> 0:04:25.720 Well, obviously, for the fans, I think it gives them hope. 0:04:25.760 --> 0:04:28.440 I mean, the oil is a perfect example Michaelias comes 0:04:28.480 --> 0:04:32.480 after the forty seven and one hundred and fifteen you know, 0:04:32.760 --> 0:04:35.680 one lost record in twenty eighteen, so he comes to 0:04:35.720 --> 0:04:39.440 twenty nineteen and he announces, Hey, we're going to do. 0:04:39.360 --> 0:04:41.560 A rebuild, and how are we going to do that? 0:04:41.880 --> 0:04:44.839 We're we're not going to be as bad as forty 0:04:44.880 --> 0:04:48.000 seven and one hundred and fifteen. Well, we're going to 0:04:48.120 --> 0:04:50.919 kind of do what they did down in Houston, where 0:04:51.040 --> 0:04:53.080 you know, you're going to hope, hopefully you'll play poorly. 0:04:53.160 --> 0:04:56.479 You get the draft high. Allie Rushman, who just got 0:04:56.640 --> 0:04:58.600 you know, traded up to Boston, was the first draft 0:04:58.680 --> 0:05:02.080 choice two thousand nineteen. I had a good friend with 0:05:02.160 --> 0:05:06.120 one of the Oil scouts. He begged them take Bobby, 0:05:06.600 --> 0:05:08.440 not that Allie's not going to be a good player, 0:05:08.880 --> 0:05:13.160 but Bobby went junior three years younger. A player is 0:05:13.279 --> 0:05:14.919 going to play one hundred and fifty five tow one 0:05:14.960 --> 0:05:18.000 hundred and sixty games a year based on catcher, maybe 0:05:18.040 --> 0:05:21.520 catching one hundred, one hundred and twenty five and probably 0:05:21.560 --> 0:05:22.240 more signable. 0:05:22.760 --> 0:05:24.320 And of course we know how good Wit is. 0:05:24.320 --> 0:05:26.880 But they chose Adlie and and you know when when 0:05:26.920 --> 0:05:29.960 Adley came in twenty twenty two, that was kind of 0:05:30.480 --> 0:05:32.560 at least and I think in the fans' minds and 0:05:32.640 --> 0:05:35.280 really the ools that this team was going to get better. 0:05:35.440 --> 0:05:38.359 And he really played well in twenty two, twenty three, 0:05:38.760 --> 0:05:40.279 all the way up to the All Star break in 0:05:40.320 --> 0:05:42.640 twenty four. I don't know if he had injuries, but 0:05:42.680 --> 0:05:44.560 all of a sudden he struggled. Last year, he had 0:05:44.920 --> 0:05:47.400 won thirty three with runners in scoring position. The league 0:05:47.400 --> 0:05:50.200 average is about two fifty one, so again, there was 0:05:50.200 --> 0:05:50.920 something going on. 0:05:51.480 --> 0:05:51.920 This year. 0:05:52.000 --> 0:05:54.000 He was having a pretty good year, and the word 0:05:54.160 --> 0:05:57.160 is I don't know. You know that he wasn't going 0:05:57.200 --> 0:05:59.200 to sign an extension. The writer called me and he said, 0:05:59.200 --> 0:06:01.400 do you know for a fact? I said no. I said, 0:06:01.400 --> 0:06:04.560 why don't you ask the GM Mike Elias. He wouldn't 0:06:04.600 --> 0:06:07.640 have because I think if he did, he would set 0:06:07.680 --> 0:06:10.840 up pressent Because Gotter Henderson two years from now, when 0:06:10.839 --> 0:06:13.400 he's has another year on his contract before he become 0:06:13.440 --> 0:06:15.640 a free agent, you're going to go, well, he's going 0:06:15.720 --> 0:06:17.680 to trade him. So what if you're an Oriol fan 0:06:17.839 --> 0:06:21.400 or and you know again they trade Adlie Rutchman and 0:06:21.400 --> 0:06:24.159 they're only it's a false god. As far as I'm concerned, 0:06:24.160 --> 0:06:26.440 when you're not playing well. But they're only two and 0:06:26.480 --> 0:06:29.280 a half games out of the wild Cards, so they're still. 0:06:28.960 --> 0:06:29.560 In the race. 0:06:29.640 --> 0:06:32.239 Even though to do that, I think you had to play. 0:06:32.360 --> 0:06:35.800 And they're at eleven and what I think they're fifteen 0:06:35.960 --> 0:06:38.880 or sixteen and ten in their last twenty six games, 0:06:39.200 --> 0:06:42.359 so they're playing better. But again the Red Sox what 0:06:42.560 --> 0:06:47.239 twenty three and five except ardiculous, And you know we helped. 0:06:47.680 --> 0:06:50.280 We made four eras first night in Boston. They should 0:06:50.320 --> 0:06:53.680 have ended the wind streak, but we didn't. So yeah, 0:06:53.760 --> 0:06:55.599 I mean, Mark, you know as well as I you 0:06:55.600 --> 0:06:58.919 were there in twenty eighteen. It's it's kind of depressing 0:06:58.960 --> 0:07:02.320 in one sense. But if you're play and you get replaced, 0:07:02.440 --> 0:07:05.160 just to think of the opportunity last night against the Angels, 0:07:05.880 --> 0:07:09.279 Kate Povitch pitches against one of my favorite young pitchers, 0:07:09.640 --> 0:07:12.160 you know, in Grayson Ron Reguez. Except obviously we know 0:07:12.200 --> 0:07:14.600 you have to be able to stay healthy. So it 0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:17.760 gives all the young players opportunities, so they probably look 0:07:17.800 --> 0:07:21.280 at it a little more positively. But again, if you're broadcasting, 0:07:21.720 --> 0:07:23.440 you're still I mean, you're preparing for the game. 0:07:23.440 --> 0:07:26.720 You're hoping they win. There's why are people want TV 0:07:26.920 --> 0:07:27.560 or Orial TV. 0:07:27.920 --> 0:07:28.440 They went. 0:07:30.560 --> 0:07:35.240 Now Mark the Orioles went fifteen and forty in August 0:07:35.240 --> 0:07:38.800 and September of twenty eighteen. Do you remember what Camden Yard? 0:07:38.840 --> 0:07:40.840 I mean, Candon Yard is one of my favorite plays 0:07:40.840 --> 0:07:45.160 to watch baseball throughout the nineties. Places just rocking. This 0:07:45.280 --> 0:07:49.320 is a great atmosphere, playoff atmosphere every night. What do 0:07:49.400 --> 0:07:52.440 you recall it being like those last two months of 0:07:52.520 --> 0:07:53.239 twenty eighteen? 0:07:56.240 --> 0:07:59.200 The on field play was at fault. I mean, the 0:07:59.240 --> 0:08:04.240 fans continue to support, Maybe the stands weren't quite as 0:08:04.880 --> 0:08:08.720 crowded as they would be for a team playing significantly better. 0:08:08.760 --> 0:08:11.840 But as a player, you do the best you can, 0:08:11.920 --> 0:08:13.800 and I took a lot of pride and giving my 0:08:13.880 --> 0:08:17.480 best effort despite the fact the team wasn't doing well. 0:08:18.120 --> 0:08:21.200 It looks even worse if you just are pouting and quitting. 0:08:23.520 --> 0:08:26.520 It's bad enough already, don't make it worse. And for 0:08:26.560 --> 0:08:28.320 a lot of you know, in my situation, I was 0:08:28.640 --> 0:08:31.760 an older player, had signed a contract and wanted to 0:08:31.760 --> 0:08:35.439 honor that contract, and I felt like because of that, 0:08:35.960 --> 0:08:39.040 there was nothing else to do but give my best effort. 0:08:39.240 --> 0:08:41.520 If we happen to rack up you know, another loss 0:08:41.559 --> 0:08:45.080 that night, you just kind of have to eat it. Unfortunately, 0:08:45.160 --> 0:08:49.320 what happens on teams that are really bad, losing gets 0:08:49.400 --> 0:08:52.920 too familiar and it doesn't sting. And when it doesn't sting, 0:08:53.120 --> 0:08:55.040 I think that's a big deal. Now, in Jim's case, 0:08:56.640 --> 0:08:58.320 I don't think you played on too many teams that 0:08:58.360 --> 0:09:02.160 were under five hundred. Maybe it was astounding when I 0:09:02.160 --> 0:09:06.800 looked at the Orioles records while you were a player there. Yeah, well, 0:09:07.080 --> 0:09:09.080 I mean I liked well, I lucked out because I 0:09:09.120 --> 0:09:11.240 was a a couple of years before the draft, and 0:09:12.080 --> 0:09:13.200 you know, Houston offered. 0:09:13.040 --> 0:09:13.760 Me more money. 0:09:14.120 --> 0:09:15.880 I ended up signing with the Oriols at night. Ten 0:09:15.920 --> 0:09:18.600 teams called the next day. But I think I made 0:09:18.600 --> 0:09:22.360 the right decision. You know, you know six World Series, 0:09:22.400 --> 0:09:24.000 we won three of them. I mean, even the ones 0:09:24.040 --> 0:09:27.640 we lost, other than the Mets series, where I mean 0:09:27.640 --> 0:09:31.000 it's just bad experience because you know, on fire breaks 0:09:31.040 --> 0:09:33.839 they were obviously the amazing Messs, so they were a 0:09:33.840 --> 0:09:36.800 good team. But the two series and seventy one and 0:09:36.840 --> 0:09:39.520 seventy nine against the Pirates, they were great. You know, 0:09:39.559 --> 0:09:41.599 seven game World Series, you lose two to one, you 0:09:41.679 --> 0:09:43.600 lose I think five to one in the seventy nine 0:09:43.640 --> 0:09:46.200 World Series on the final day, So you know, yeah, 0:09:46.240 --> 0:09:49.320 I was. I was really lucky. And then, you know, 0:09:49.360 --> 0:09:51.240 how do you win many games as I did. You 0:09:51.280 --> 0:09:53.439 play on good teams, which is why I never left. 0:09:53.480 --> 0:09:55.440 I mean, I knew that all I had to do 0:09:55.559 --> 0:09:57.840 is try to figure out how to stay healthy, be 0:09:57.880 --> 0:09:59.840 able to go out there thirty eight, thirty nine, forty 0:09:59.840 --> 0:10:02.040 t times a year, and I was gonna win a 0:10:02.080 --> 0:10:04.079 lot of games because we did a lot of things, 0:10:04.280 --> 0:10:08.160 you know, right, And to Mark's point, teams that don't 0:10:08.320 --> 0:10:11.400 they beat themselves, They lose the one run games they're 0:10:12.280 --> 0:10:14.560 you know, they don't expect to win. So you do 0:10:14.640 --> 0:10:17.040 play for yourself, you know. The late Mike flank And 0:10:17.120 --> 0:10:18.719 used to always say when we would trade for a 0:10:18.760 --> 0:10:21.360 guy that came from a losing team, you said, you 0:10:21.440 --> 0:10:24.160 just can see he does not play for the name 0:10:24.200 --> 0:10:26.480 on the field of the uniform. They're used to playing 0:10:27.040 --> 0:10:28.840 for the team that you know, their name on the 0:10:28.840 --> 0:10:31.120 back of the uniform, which for themselves. And that's kind 0:10:31.120 --> 0:10:34.320 of what losing teams it kind of it kind of 0:10:34.320 --> 0:10:36.520 fosters that in a sense, and that that's not the 0:10:36.520 --> 0:10:37.480 way he play the game. 0:10:38.040 --> 0:10:43.079 I believe Marquez The next question, Okay, where are. 0:10:43.040 --> 0:10:45.600 The Orioles go? What are they doing? They trade badly. 0:10:45.640 --> 0:10:50.640 I understand if he wasn't interested in signing a contract extension, 0:10:50.760 --> 0:10:54.240 then logically I think that that does make sense. They 0:10:54.360 --> 0:10:58.800 but they've already done one rebuild, very painful. It took 0:10:58.840 --> 0:11:00.480 a while, but it did pay off, not in the 0:11:00.600 --> 0:11:03.680 form of a world series, but they did have a 0:11:03.679 --> 0:11:07.320 lot of success under Brandon Hyde. You know, some good seasons, 0:11:07.320 --> 0:11:11.520 and they reshuffled. There's new instructors every year. You and 0:11:11.559 --> 0:11:13.560 I have talked about some of this, but you know, 0:11:13.640 --> 0:11:15.720 the Angels are doing it for the first time, and 0:11:15.880 --> 0:11:17.600 I guess you want to get it right and try 0:11:17.640 --> 0:11:22.560 and emulate teams that have sustained success. Brewers raised teams 0:11:22.600 --> 0:11:26.200 like that unless you're a big spender. But what do 0:11:26.200 --> 0:11:29.120 you see from the Oels now? Just is this just 0:11:29.120 --> 0:11:31.720 a reshuffling, restocking? What's going on? 0:11:33.480 --> 0:11:34.320 That's a good question. 0:11:34.559 --> 0:11:37.400 You know, when Michael Eyes came in twenty nineteen, he said, 0:11:37.400 --> 0:11:42.400 we're going to create an elite pipeline. Now again, when 0:11:42.400 --> 0:11:45.800 you're drafting number one, you hope that you know again, 0:11:45.840 --> 0:11:49.199 I mean, they take Adlie over Bobby with Junior. They 0:11:49.240 --> 0:11:53.440 do get Gunner Henderson, who was I think the fortieth 0:11:53.559 --> 0:11:57.440 pick that year. So pretty talented player, even though this 0:11:57.520 --> 0:12:02.000 year he's been struggling, you know, and then they don't 0:12:02.040 --> 0:12:04.840 draft pitchers. That's why I think the Adelie Ruschman trade, 0:12:05.360 --> 0:12:07.960 you know, in getting Taylor Word who you know, was 0:12:07.960 --> 0:12:10.360 with the Angels hit thirty six home runs career high. 0:12:10.480 --> 0:12:13.319 I mean normally years, what twenty three, twenty six, somewhere 0:12:13.360 --> 0:12:15.720 in that range when he's healthy, but he only hit 0:12:15.760 --> 0:12:18.560 seven one at Camping Yards. Now they could change left 0:12:18.600 --> 0:12:21.640 field used to be three sixty four. Now it went 0:12:21.720 --> 0:12:24.600 to three ninety eight. Now it's back in a little bit. 0:12:24.960 --> 0:12:26.720 I mean, it's you know, it's kind of weird, but 0:12:28.400 --> 0:12:31.640 I think they thought they had a team that could compete. 0:12:32.400 --> 0:12:36.040 But again, one of their best young players is Jordan Westburn. 0:12:36.640 --> 0:12:38.840 And when you take him out of the lineup, you know, 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:41.280 the Oarls don't beat lefties. You know, they're going to 0:12:41.320 --> 0:12:44.600 face Red Deptner's tonight and I'm going, okay, not only 0:12:44.679 --> 0:12:47.439 is he a good pitcher, he's left handed. What did 0:12:47.440 --> 0:12:49.200 Pete Rose say, if you're breathing in your left handed 0:12:49.240 --> 0:12:52.199 you got a chance to play. So you know, again 0:12:52.360 --> 0:12:57.800 we are in a rebuild of sense, but a lot 0:12:57.800 --> 0:13:00.559 of times when you know, like when they traded Cini 0:13:00.840 --> 0:13:06.520 and Lopez and what twenty twenty twenty two, after only 0:13:06.559 --> 0:13:09.640 winning fifty some games a year before, Mike Alas said, 0:13:09.679 --> 0:13:11.719 well left off, Well, then you trade two of your 0:13:11.720 --> 0:13:14.160 better players. But in twenty three they you know, they 0:13:14.200 --> 0:13:17.640 won one hundred one games, and you know, after going 0:13:17.679 --> 0:13:20.199 from fifty seven to eighty three, then one hundred and 0:13:20.240 --> 0:13:24.360 one and ninety one. So again this is a team 0:13:24.760 --> 0:13:27.720 that you think on paper, I mean they'd signed Pete Launce. 0:13:28.160 --> 0:13:30.839 They traded for Shane Bobs, who has pitched a lot 0:13:30.840 --> 0:13:32.760 better than his record because they don't score any runs 0:13:32.760 --> 0:13:35.280 for him. You know, they've had some injuries, you know, Helsley, 0:13:35.360 --> 0:13:36.480 they got him as a closer. 0:13:36.520 --> 0:13:39.880 He's been popping on the il. You know. 0:13:40.160 --> 0:13:44.120 Trevor Rodgers last year had his the most incredible seventeen 0:13:44.200 --> 0:13:46.280 game streak that I've ever seen, and I've been in 0:13:46.280 --> 0:13:49.240 baseball over sixty years. Had a one thirty one ERA 0:13:49.440 --> 0:13:52.320 after which seventeen starts, you know, you go on a run. 0:13:52.320 --> 0:13:53.760 I mean I went on a run once where I 0:13:53.760 --> 0:13:55.560 you know, I had thirty three in the third, scoreless 0:13:55.559 --> 0:13:57.679 innings and you think you're not going to get you 0:13:57.720 --> 0:13:59.320 any run. But to do that, he gave up six 0:13:59.400 --> 0:14:01.720 runs in his last startup in New York because he 0:14:01.920 --> 0:14:04.400 you know, for eighteen starts one to eighty one and 0:14:04.440 --> 0:14:06.760 he started out poorly. Now he's pitching as well as anybody, 0:14:06.760 --> 0:14:09.960 but they haven't extended him. So I don't I don't 0:14:09.960 --> 0:14:11.360 know what they're going to do. They have the highest 0:14:11.400 --> 0:14:14.080 payroll I think in the history of the Orioles and 0:14:14.160 --> 0:14:16.880 they're three games und five hundred. So again, is this 0:14:16.960 --> 0:14:20.800 a rebuild? I don't think so. But once again, you 0:14:20.840 --> 0:14:23.560 know the Ali Rushman trade. You know, you don't think 0:14:23.600 --> 0:14:26.680 it's going to happen till it does. One of the 0:14:26.680 --> 0:14:28.640 writers called me last night and they said, well, do 0:14:28.680 --> 0:14:30.440 you know that he turned down an extension And I 0:14:30.520 --> 0:14:33.840 said no, I said, why don't you ask the GM 0:14:33.960 --> 0:14:36.040 And he said, well I did, you wouldn't answer it 0:14:36.040 --> 0:14:38.920 because if you did, that means when Gutter Henderson two 0:14:39.000 --> 0:14:40.880 years from now and he's Scott Boris. 0:14:41.000 --> 0:14:42.720 You know, he's one of the best agents in baseball. 0:14:43.040 --> 0:14:45.400 But automatically, if he doesn't sign an extension, he's going 0:14:45.440 --> 0:14:46.680 to be traded in the middle of the season, So 0:14:46.720 --> 0:14:49.560 I don't think you want to verbally set that precedent. 0:14:49.720 --> 0:14:52.240 So it'll be very interesting what they do. But they 0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:57.120 needed pitching. Apparently they got from the Red Sox two 0:14:58.240 --> 0:14:59.479 really good prospects. 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:01.400 But Mark knows as well as I do. 0:15:01.640 --> 0:15:05.000 You know, cal RIKENSII always say there's suspects in their prospects, 0:15:05.840 --> 0:15:07.600 and the prospects get the chance to get to the 0:15:07.600 --> 0:15:10.000 big leaguers probably a little bit sooner, whether you got 0:15:10.000 --> 0:15:12.080 a big lot of money to sign or you know, 0:15:12.160 --> 0:15:14.480 you throw ninety eight or whatever. But the minute you 0:15:14.520 --> 0:15:16.680 get to the big leagues, you're a suspect again until 0:15:16.720 --> 0:15:18.480 you prove that you can play the game at a 0:15:18.520 --> 0:15:19.040 high level. 0:15:19.200 --> 0:15:23.320 Yeah, he Ken Rosen. Ken Rosenthal in the Foul Territory 0:15:23.360 --> 0:15:26.320 Network has mentioning things to say about this Rushman deal. 0:15:26.400 --> 0:15:27.440 Let's take a listen. 0:15:28.240 --> 0:15:31.080 The Rushman trade to me was the defining trade of 0:15:31.080 --> 0:15:33.960 this deadline. It was fascinating ADLEI Rushman going to the 0:15:34.000 --> 0:15:38.760 Boston Red Sox for a number of prospects, and it 0:15:38.880 --> 0:15:43.160 kind of, as I wrote, demonstrated two teams at opposite extremes. 0:15:43.760 --> 0:15:46.680 The Orioles, a team that was supposedly going to be 0:15:46.880 --> 0:15:51.080 a commpetitive contending type club by now. They talked about 0:15:51.120 --> 0:15:54.200 lift off their president base operations Michael Oias did in 0:15:54.240 --> 0:15:59.080 twenty twenty two. They didn't lift off, they haven't crashed, 0:15:59.360 --> 0:16:02.480 but they've kind of gone nowhere, and now they've traded 0:16:02.680 --> 0:16:06.000 the guy they picked number one over Bobby Wick Junior 0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:10.520 in twenty nineteen, the guy that was really the signature 0:16:10.560 --> 0:16:13.400 piece of their rebuild, the guy who they talked about 0:16:13.520 --> 0:16:18.160 keeping forever and yet never signed to a long term extension. 0:16:18.680 --> 0:16:23.760 That guy is, of course, Rushman. And the reason that 0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:26.480 this trade for the Orioles was so deflating to so 0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:30.920 many of their fans is that it kind of acknowledges 0:16:31.280 --> 0:16:35.640 that the whole thing hasn't gone according to plan. Fans 0:16:35.640 --> 0:16:39.160 are asked all the time, trust the process, stay with us, 0:16:39.720 --> 0:16:43.400 their Oriols fans did. Through some really hard years. They tanked, 0:16:43.640 --> 0:16:47.040 they got some big picks, and now they are not 0:16:47.200 --> 0:16:51.360 starting over, but certainly retooling in a way that is 0:16:51.400 --> 0:16:54.400 going to require more patience. Now they've got pieces in 0:16:54.440 --> 0:16:57.880 place going forward, they'll be okay. They've got Alonso and 0:16:57.880 --> 0:17:02.040 they've got Basaiosne signed long term. They've got pieces in 0:17:02.080 --> 0:17:06.359 their rotation. Pob Bradish. Of course, Shane Boz. Long term, 0:17:06.520 --> 0:17:09.760 they can extend a qualifying offer to Trevor Rodgers. But 0:17:11.080 --> 0:17:15.880 fans are right to ask, hey, man, what's going on here? 0:17:16.400 --> 0:17:18.680 Why is that? 0:17:18.880 --> 0:17:22.439 Jim as Mark said, the Angels are finally committed to 0:17:22.520 --> 0:17:25.080 a rebuild. It's really the first time since I can 0:17:25.160 --> 0:17:29.160 ever remember. But are the Orioles with What's going on now? 0:17:29.280 --> 0:17:32.360 Something of a cautionary tale for the Angels, especially they're 0:17:32.400 --> 0:17:36.240 fans who might be thinking this is a smooth, linear process. 0:17:37.760 --> 0:17:40.520 Well, it worked for the Oriols. It's just they couldn't 0:17:40.520 --> 0:17:43.640 sustain it, and could you know. So they went one. 0:17:43.640 --> 0:17:45.840 Hundred and one and then they win ninety one. 0:17:45.880 --> 0:17:47.680 They go to the playoffs two years ago, they get 0:17:47.720 --> 0:17:50.000 swept by the Rangers, who win the World Series in 0:17:50.000 --> 0:17:52.479 twenty twenty three. That's a good club, but it had 0:17:52.480 --> 0:17:57.040 an inexperienced club. And you know, Brad's got beat in 0:17:57.080 --> 0:18:00.440 game one, really good game. I think it gave three 0:18:00.520 --> 0:18:04.080 runs and Oils didn't score. And then Grace and Rodriguez 0:18:04.080 --> 0:18:07.760 Dean Kramer who's Jewish, right after what happened in two 0:18:07.760 --> 0:18:09.639 thousand and seven, and he's going to go start a 0:18:09.680 --> 0:18:11.679 playoff game, and a lot of things on his mind, man, 0:18:11.800 --> 0:18:15.400 other than baseball. What happened in Israel or in Gaza. 0:18:15.520 --> 0:18:19.159 So and then the next year they play Kansas City, 0:18:19.359 --> 0:18:21.480 and you know, they lose, what three to two, and 0:18:21.520 --> 0:18:24.120 then they lose two to one. So they're a good team, 0:18:24.160 --> 0:18:27.600 but they're not a great team. And then you know, 0:18:27.640 --> 0:18:29.960 all of a sudden, you know, next year they start 0:18:30.000 --> 0:18:32.200 out fifteen and twenty eight and I'm on the elevator 0:18:32.240 --> 0:18:35.359 in Anaheim and the club's not playing well. You know, 0:18:35.400 --> 0:18:37.919 it's game three of the Ools playing in Anaheim, and 0:18:37.960 --> 0:18:40.160 Mike Elias, the GM says, you ever see a team 0:18:40.160 --> 0:18:42.080 go from all the way up here to the bottom? 0:18:42.119 --> 0:18:45.119 And I said, not one with good pitching. And you know, 0:18:45.240 --> 0:18:47.000 you went back to your point. I never played on 0:18:47.000 --> 0:18:49.840 a team that didn't have good pitching. So you're in games, 0:18:49.880 --> 0:18:52.560 your players think you're in games. I don't know, Mark, 0:18:52.600 --> 0:18:54.040 I mean, I'm not going to speak for you, but 0:18:54.119 --> 0:18:57.360 because you were a terrific hitter, but if you don't 0:18:57.359 --> 0:19:00.320 think you have to get seven or eight runs a game, yet, 0:19:00.400 --> 0:19:02.000 you can get three or four, or I can get 0:19:02.000 --> 0:19:04.760 a big hit, or I'm going to be involved versus 0:19:04.800 --> 0:19:06.720 not going to be a slug fester every night. I 0:19:06.720 --> 0:19:08.320 think you got to think you have a better chance 0:19:08.320 --> 0:19:10.720 of winning games. And all the good clubs I played 0:19:10.760 --> 0:19:14.960 on had excellent pitching. That's a perfect segue. I was 0:19:15.000 --> 0:19:17.920 going to ask you I personally like short starts four 0:19:17.920 --> 0:19:19.320 and a third hundred pitches. 0:19:20.840 --> 0:19:22.240 No, I don't. And it's been. 0:19:22.119 --> 0:19:28.240 The downfall of many you know, the Angels have struggled 0:19:28.280 --> 0:19:31.639 in a number of areas, but one short start not 0:19:31.680 --> 0:19:34.960 only taxes that night bullpen, but the games to come, 0:19:35.240 --> 0:19:40.040 and it's been really tough. My question that was really 0:19:40.119 --> 0:19:42.919 going to be what are they getting right? And maybe 0:19:43.520 --> 0:19:46.320 the opposite of right with the modern pitching. We just 0:19:46.359 --> 0:19:48.480 watched the miz You know, I used to throwing a 0:19:48.520 --> 0:19:52.920 million really impressive arm. There's still a guy's doing well. 0:19:53.720 --> 0:19:56.280 Grayson did give them length last night. He went seven innings, 0:19:56.280 --> 0:19:59.159 but the majority of the time I'm seeing these guys 0:19:59.200 --> 0:20:02.880 look awfully happy after their five innings, and for you, 0:20:02.920 --> 0:20:06.440 that would have been a I mean, it's just done unfathomable. 0:20:06.680 --> 0:20:09.879