1 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:06,040 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:10,039 --> 00:00:12,880 Speaker 2: Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind Listener Mail. 3 00:00:13,039 --> 00:00:14,320 Speaker 2: This is Robert Lamb. 4 00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:17,319 Speaker 3: And I am Joe McCormick and today as Rob I 5 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:20,759 Speaker 3: think just said, we are bringing you listener mail. Of course, 6 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:22,920 Speaker 3: at the end of every episode we give out our 7 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:25,760 Speaker 3: email address for listeners like you to get in touch. 8 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:29,320 Speaker 3: That address is contact at stuff to Blow your Mind 9 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:32,599 Speaker 3: dot com. It's been a little bit since the last one, 10 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:35,199 Speaker 3: so we are doing some catch up on series that 11 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:38,480 Speaker 3: have been a few weeks back at this point. But yeah, 12 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:40,920 Speaker 3: please keep the email coming. We do love all the 13 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:43,840 Speaker 3: messages we get. We're not able to respond to everything 14 00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 3: that comes into the inbox on the show itself, but 15 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:50,520 Speaker 3: rest assured we do read all of it. We appreciate 16 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 3: all that we get. And again that is contact at 17 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:56,240 Speaker 3: stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. Get in touch 18 00:00:56,320 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 3: anytime to let us know your thoughts about episodes we've 19 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:01,640 Speaker 3: done on the show, or just to suggest something for 20 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 3: us to cover, or even just to share something interesting, 21 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:06,800 Speaker 3: something you think that would tickle our fancy. 22 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:08,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, you never know. Sometimes it can we can spin 23 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:12,120 Speaker 2: it off into an episode and some folks also choose 24 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 2: to take part in the Discord Server for Stuff to 25 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:17,479 Speaker 2: Blow your Mind and Weird House Cinema. If you would 26 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:20,440 Speaker 2: like to join that discord Server, we'll just shoot us 27 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:23,399 Speaker 2: an email at the aforementioned address and we'll shoot you 28 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:24,280 Speaker 2: the link to join. 29 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:26,400 Speaker 3: All right, well, I think we should kick things off 30 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:30,280 Speaker 3: with some responses to the series we did called The Mysteries. 31 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:35,040 Speaker 3: This was a collection of episodes about the mystery religions 32 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 3: or the mystery cults of the ancient Greco Roman world. 33 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 3: Let's see, Rob, Do you mind if I start with 34 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 3: this message from Hannah. 35 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 2: Yeah. 36 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:45,400 Speaker 3: This message is responding to a part of the series 37 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 3: where we were talking about the general context of ancient 38 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:52,040 Speaker 3: Greek and Roman polytheism, like how the cults of those 39 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:55,240 Speaker 3: gods were quite a bit different from what a person 40 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 3: today might expect, especially if that person grew up in 41 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:01,960 Speaker 3: culture primarily influenced by one of the big monotheisms. Some 42 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 3: of those differences were that within these ancient Greco Roman polytheisms, 43 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:10,799 Speaker 3: there was generally no expectation of exclusivity in a person's 44 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 3: relationship with any one god. The main public cults were 45 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:17,840 Speaker 3: not really focused on things like faith and belief, but 46 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:22,639 Speaker 3: instead on rituals and sacrifices, ritual sacrifices and festivals. You know, 47 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:25,200 Speaker 3: it's a party time as well, so you know, people 48 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:28,919 Speaker 3: would perform rituals and sacrifices in exchange for the expectation 49 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:32,880 Speaker 3: of blessings from the god in question. Another thing is 50 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:35,240 Speaker 3: just how many gods there were. There were lots and 51 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 3: lots of them who could each provide blessings related to 52 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:42,800 Speaker 3: different parts of human life, things like economic situations, health 53 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 3: and reproduction, specific areas of geography and geographical features. And 54 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:51,080 Speaker 3: in this discussion, Rob brought up this analogy comparing the 55 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:55,560 Speaker 3: religious environment to a cheesecake factory menu except which I 56 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 3: thought was a good one, except with the variation that, 57 00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 3: unlike the cheesecake fact which is centrally organized, it's a chain. 58 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:05,720 Speaker 3: The public cults of the ancient Greek and Roman world 59 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 3: were not centrally organized. There wasn't really like a pope 60 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 3: of Greco Roman religion to make everybody do the same thing. Instead, 61 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 3: you had lots of local cult control and even tons 62 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 3: of local gods and local variations on the worship of 63 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 3: widespread gods. And so listener Hannah gets in touch to 64 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 3: offer a contribution to this analogy, Hannah says, with subject 65 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 3: line A variety platter of deities. Hi, again, I had 66 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 3: to pause the Mystery Cult episode just to send you this. 67 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:44,280 Speaker 3: The perfect metaphor for ancient polytheism isn't a cheesecake factory menu. 68 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 3: It's a local diner menu. Now that's the kind of 69 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 3: distinction I appreciate it. Let's hear Hannah's case here. Hannah says, 70 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 3: you know how some of them can be improbably long 71 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 3: because they keep adding on odds and ends or recombinations 72 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 3: of the same and green vidience. Plus, you have some 73 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 3: standard diner fair you'd expect to see almost anywhere, and 74 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 3: then in parentheses burger slash sun God maybe, plus local 75 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 3: stuff parentheses grits in the South scrapple and Pennsylvania hyperlocal 76 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 3: river God perhaps, and whatever stuff from the culture of 77 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:24,279 Speaker 3: the diner owners who maybe came from elsewhere. You've probably 78 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 3: been to a Greek diner or an Italian flavored diner. 79 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:31,040 Speaker 3: Maybe these are the deities brought to a region by migration, 80 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:35,039 Speaker 3: trade or conquest. Anyway, thank you as always for sharing 81 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:37,640 Speaker 3: the joy and light of learning and exploring ideas. Y'all 82 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 3: are life savers and now I really want to milkshake. 83 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 3: Cheers Hannah. Well, Hannah, bravo. I thoroughly approve of this analogy. 84 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 3: I think it's great. 85 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:50,920 Speaker 2: Yes, our original analogy was imperfect, as sometimes our real 86 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 2: time analogies tend to be. This is a perfection of 87 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 2: the analogy, so greatly appreciate it. 88 00:04:57,680 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 3: All right, let's see Rob, you want to do this next? 89 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:04,040 Speaker 3: And from Jamie. Yeah, let's see a bit of context. 90 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:06,039 Speaker 3: This one brings up a couple things in the episode. 91 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 3: One is the comparisons between ancient Greco Roman mystery cults 92 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:14,159 Speaker 3: and Christianity. It's long been a question in historical and 93 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 3: religious scholarship to what extent Christianity should or should not 94 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 3: be thought of as one of the mystery cults or 95 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 3: influenced by one of the mystery cults. And then the 96 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 3: other thing is just about our use of the word 97 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:27,600 Speaker 3: cult in the context of ancient Greek and Roman religion, 98 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:30,520 Speaker 3: where it has none of the negative connotations as today. 99 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:40,160 Speaker 2: All right, then here is the email from Jamie. Dear 100 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 2: Robert and Joe. I'm enjoying the pod as always, and 101 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:45,480 Speaker 2: especially the recent episode on the mystery cults of the 102 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 2: ancient world. I would have liked to hear even more, 103 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:51,159 Speaker 2: not just about how Christianity may have been a kind 104 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:53,480 Speaker 2: of mystery cult to begin with, but about how this 105 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:57,160 Speaker 2: tradition has continued even to this day, at least in Catholicism. 106 00:05:57,240 --> 00:06:00,520 Speaker 2: Mysteries such as the Trinity, for example, are our essentral 107 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:03,159 Speaker 2: part of faith, and one is encouraged to contemplate the 108 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:08,120 Speaker 2: mysteries such as the Resurrection and Denunciation while praying the Rosary. 109 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:12,239 Speaker 2: On another cult point, I liked how you pointed out 110 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 2: the call of Cthulhu version of the cultist as a 111 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:17,919 Speaker 2: hooded fiend. But if you are interested in reading a 112 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:21,360 Speaker 2: story that does an excellent job, in my opinion, presenting 113 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:24,919 Speaker 2: Cthulhu worship as if it were a mystery cult in 114 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:29,039 Speaker 2: the ancient sense, I recommend copying Squid by Michael Shae. 115 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 2: Keep up the good work, Jane. 116 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:35,160 Speaker 3: Oh thanks, Jamie. Well maybe we should go in reverse 117 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:38,840 Speaker 3: order here. I've only read one story ever by Michael, 118 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 3: she called The Autopsy. But that story was fantastic, so 119 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 3: I'm interested to read more. Michael Shay's a horror, horror 120 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:47,279 Speaker 3: and fantasy writer. 121 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:52,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, horror, fantasy, some science fiction thrown in there as well. 122 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 2: He lived nineteen forty six through twenty fourteen. One of 123 00:06:57,160 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 2: my favorite weird fiction authors. I actually got to exchange 124 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 2: a couple of like fan emails with him once. Yeah, 125 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 2: the highlight of my fan emailing career. But his Niffeline 126 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 2: fantasy tales are absolutely amazing, well worth seeking out. He 127 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:16,720 Speaker 2: also wrote a number of great weird fiction tales, including 128 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:20,680 Speaker 2: several that take place in the Cthulhu mythos. Coughing Squid 129 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:22,520 Speaker 2: is a good one. I haven't read that one in years, though, 130 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 2: so the mystery cult aspects of it have kind of 131 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 2: faded for my recollection. But this one is collected in 132 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 2: a collection that I have demiurge, the Complete Cthulhu Mythos Tales. 133 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:35,480 Speaker 2: That one also includes fat Face, which is one of 134 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 2: his better known stories. And yeah, the Autopsy, as you mentioned, Yeah, 135 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 2: that is another really well known Shay story. That one 136 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 2: was adapted into an episode of Germeal de Toro's Cabinet 137 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 2: of Curiosity, that one directed by David Pryor. 138 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 3: Now I wonder in what sense Jamie means Coping Squid 139 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 3: is about Cuthulhu worship as an actual mystery cult in 140 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:58,400 Speaker 3: the historical sense. Does that mean that it relies on 141 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 3: secret knowledge. I mean, I guess the grit knowledge is 142 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 3: sort of already there in the original story. Maybe that 143 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 3: it's more about the experience of the initiate like that, Yeah, 144 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 3: the core part. 145 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 2: I think. So there are there are two different Michael 146 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:13,680 Speaker 2: she myth those stories that are kind of combined in 147 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 2: my memory, and I really need to revisit them to 148 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:18,920 Speaker 2: tease them apart. But I have a vague recollection of 149 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 2: a story that is very much from the the cultest 150 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 2: or would be cultest point of view, you know, beginning 151 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:29,760 Speaker 2: to have this initiation into the sacred rights of Cuthula. 152 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:32,960 Speaker 3: That's actually a great idea for a story, given the 153 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 3: like historical knowledge we have now about what the initiation 154 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:40,080 Speaker 3: process was. Probably, like I'm thinking specifically of the Eleusinian mysteries, 155 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:42,880 Speaker 3: where there's this idea that you know, everyone would have 156 00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:45,520 Speaker 3: been told that it's a you know, it's a really 157 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 3: powerful experience, it'll change your life, it'll let you go 158 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:51,000 Speaker 3: without a burden into the into the underworld at the 159 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:52,839 Speaker 3: time of death. And so you've heard all this good 160 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:55,560 Speaker 3: stuff about it, but people can't tell you what it is. Yeah, 161 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:57,679 Speaker 3: and so like what if you get there and the 162 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 3: truth of what the experience is is quite horrifying. But 163 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:02,960 Speaker 3: then for some reason you have to keep go telling 164 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:06,120 Speaker 3: people like, yeah, it's great, you got to go, and yeah. 165 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 2: I really need to read these stories again, because again, 166 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 2: Michael Shay is terrific. He is one of those authors 167 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 2: that I will I keep coming back to and I'll 168 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:16,440 Speaker 2: just figure out is well, what's a story of his 169 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:20,160 Speaker 2: that I'm very fond of, but I've also forgotten most 170 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:22,120 Speaker 2: off and then it's time to dive back in. 171 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:25,000 Speaker 3: Now coming back to the first half of Jamie's email 172 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:29,839 Speaker 3: about the comparisons between Christianity and mystery cults, for one thing, 173 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 3: extending into the comparisons of modern Christianity to mystery cults. 174 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:38,640 Speaker 3: There's actually a significant part of the book. One of 175 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 3: the main sources we talked about in that series, the 176 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:44,080 Speaker 3: book by Hugh Boden Mystery Cults in the Ancient World. 177 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 3: But yeah, so Boden toward the end of the book 178 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 3: has a long section in which you makes some pretty 179 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 3: strong comparisons between what we know about the experience of 180 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:57,079 Speaker 3: being in an ancient mystery cult, and not so much 181 00:09:57,120 --> 00:10:03,040 Speaker 3: with Catholicism but with certain Pentecostal forms of Christianity. Specifically 182 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:06,719 Speaker 3: like the ecstatic snake handling cults of Appalachia. But as 183 00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:10,080 Speaker 3: to the broader question of Christianity and mystery cults, it 184 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:14,040 Speaker 3: is interesting, like there have long been these questions, like 185 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 3: to what extent does the Christian practice of baptism constitute 186 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 3: and initiation ritual is the Eucharist, like the ritual taking 187 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:25,440 Speaker 3: of bread and wine as the body and blood of Christ? 188 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:30,320 Speaker 3: Is that a mystery practice? Also questions about whether Christianity 189 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 3: began as something more like the other mystery religions or 190 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:37,880 Speaker 3: was influenced by them and then maybe drifted away to 191 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 3: become a more doctrinal cult. But I think a lot 192 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 3: of scholars now kind of disagree with that interpretive lens 193 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:51,600 Speaker 3: because specifically the idea that Christianity was strongly influenced by 194 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 3: the mystery cults or began as a mystery cult. And 195 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:57,160 Speaker 3: I think one of the main reasons a lot of 196 00:10:57,440 --> 00:10:59,520 Speaker 3: historians have turned against that is that that kind of 197 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:04,439 Speaker 3: under the particular features of Judaism as a foundational influence 198 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 3: on Christianity. And it's fair to point out that there 199 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:10,200 Speaker 3: is a lot we don't know about the early years 200 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:13,199 Speaker 3: of Christianity and its origins, but of course, that cuts 201 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 3: both ways against all interpretations, but based on what we 202 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 3: do know, I think the best interpretation of the origin 203 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 3: of Christianity is that it began as an apocalyptic movement 204 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:27,560 Speaker 3: within Judaism, which was focused on the idea that the 205 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:32,199 Speaker 3: Jewish God would soon come down to destroy wickedness, invert 206 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 3: existing power relationships like overthrow Roman control and so forth, 207 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:39,600 Speaker 3: and establish a good, just kingdom on earth, sort of 208 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:44,040 Speaker 3: right all wrongs. And then as early Christians tried to 209 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:47,520 Speaker 3: make sense of the death and then their belief in 210 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 3: the resurrection of their leader, Jesus of Nazareth. And then 211 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:53,600 Speaker 3: also as the story of Jesus began to spread among 212 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 3: Greek and Roman polytheists rather than only among Jews, it 213 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:01,839 Speaker 3: morphed into a religion of individual salvation, being not about 214 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:04,520 Speaker 3: the fact that God would soon come to earth and 215 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:07,440 Speaker 3: set things right, but about the idea that you need 216 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:11,120 Speaker 3: to set yourself right with God by accepting the saving 217 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:14,520 Speaker 3: sacrifice of Christ. But again, there's a lot we don't 218 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:17,120 Speaker 3: know about the early years of Christianity with great confidence, 219 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 3: so it's hard to be too sure about any particular 220 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:22,959 Speaker 3: story of how it evolved. However, there is an interesting 221 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 3: vocabulary fact that I don't think we talked about in 222 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 3: the episode Rob let me know if we did get 223 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:31,680 Speaker 3: into this, and I'm forgetting. But it's the idea of 224 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:36,320 Speaker 3: the early Christian use of the Greek word mysterion, which 225 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:39,920 Speaker 3: is often used to refer to the mystery the initiation rights, 226 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 3: the secret initiation rights of cults, like the Elusinian mysteries. 227 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:49,079 Speaker 3: The word mysterion does appear in early Christian texts such 228 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:51,760 Speaker 3: as the Gospels and in some of the epistles in 229 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 3: the New Testament, where it seems in this context it's 230 00:12:55,760 --> 00:13:00,280 Speaker 3: used not to refer to initiation rights. Instead, mysterion here 231 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:05,400 Speaker 3: is always used to refer to secret knowledge, generally hidden 232 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:09,680 Speaker 3: knowledge that has been revealed in secret to a privileged group. 233 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:13,160 Speaker 3: So one example is like when Jesus is telling the 234 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 3: parable of the Sower in the Gospel of Mark. Apparently 235 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:20,079 Speaker 3: in the Greek there is invocation of the word mysterion there, 236 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:25,199 Speaker 3: referring to the secret interpretation of the parable that Jesus 237 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:28,640 Speaker 3: gives only to his inner circle of disciples, so that 238 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:32,000 Speaker 3: the masses only sort of hear the parable and puzzle 239 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:33,959 Speaker 3: what to make of it. But then there is a 240 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:38,120 Speaker 3: secret knowledge, a sort of secret reading of the parable 241 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 3: that is given to his inner circle. So that's how 242 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:44,840 Speaker 3: the word mysterion is used in early Christian writings from 243 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:48,920 Speaker 3: the first and second centuries CE, but then a few 244 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 3: centuries later, I think it's by like the fourth century CE. 245 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:55,760 Speaker 3: Boden says, this is happening. The word mysterion is now 246 00:13:55,800 --> 00:14:00,760 Speaker 3: just commonly used to refer to Christian ritual like the 247 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:06,480 Speaker 3: Eucharist or baptism, and there has been scholarly debate about why, 248 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:10,280 Speaker 3: like why is the word mysterion used here. Some think 249 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:14,280 Speaker 3: that it's like the influence of Greek and Roman polytheism. Basically, 250 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:16,400 Speaker 3: it's like, you know, taking a word from one religious 251 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 3: context and applying it to the new dominant religion where 252 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:23,560 Speaker 3: it once referred to these rituals. But Boden actually makes 253 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 3: an argument that this application of the word mystery on 254 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:32,360 Speaker 3: to something like the Eucharist is it reflects, in his view, 255 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 3: an understanding that the Christians had at the time that 256 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 3: the rituals were forms of secret knowledge. So it's more 257 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:44,640 Speaker 3: in keeping with the way the word is used in 258 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:47,920 Speaker 3: the early Christian texts, like forms of secret knowledge that 259 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:52,200 Speaker 3: are now revealed, So you know, the secret of baptism 260 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 3: and the Eucharist that was previously known only to God 261 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:57,880 Speaker 3: and perhaps to some of the prophets, but now these 262 00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:01,920 Speaker 3: rituals are known to all Christians, have been revealed by Jesus. 263 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 3: It is a secret that has been that you have 264 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 3: been brought in on. And of course, Uh, there is 265 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 3: the long running question of comparisons between baptism and UH 266 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:16,840 Speaker 3: and various forms of cultic initiation, including initiation to the 267 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 3: mystery cults. Uh. This could well be a legitimate sort 268 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 3: of common growth or or you know, a legitimate comparison here. 269 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 3: But of course it's worth pointing out that baptism predates Christianity, 270 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:31,640 Speaker 3: and that's not even a controversial fact even among Christians. 271 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:34,440 Speaker 3: Like you know, Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist. 272 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:37,479 Speaker 3: It's it was a pre existing practice, right right. 273 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:41,920 Speaker 2: I can I can see that, basing it for in 274 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:46,120 Speaker 2: part just on my own experience, like baptism as a child. Uh, 275 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 2: it's uh, you know, it's it's there are mysteries involved, 276 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:52,560 Speaker 2: it's it's it's kind of frightful, like you're you have 277 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 2: to go in the back of the church and go 278 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 2: through like secret chambers. They're not really secret, but they 279 00:15:56,880 --> 00:16:00,320 Speaker 2: felt kind of secret. You have to like wear awn 280 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 2: over your swimsuit and then go into a like a 281 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:05,960 Speaker 2: walk in bathtub with a master it's you know, and 282 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:10,560 Speaker 2: then you're dunked. It was. It was a weird, memorable experience. 283 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:13,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, though, as you know, we talked about, I think 284 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 3: a little bit in the episode, the idea that there 285 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:19,320 Speaker 3: may have been some ways rituals were done earlier in 286 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:22,600 Speaker 3: Christianity that tended to be more in the imagistic religious 287 00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:25,080 Speaker 3: fashion that became more doctrinal as. 288 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:25,520 Speaker 2: Time went on. 289 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:28,640 Speaker 3: That might not be always true in every case, but 290 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:31,280 Speaker 3: in some certain cases it is. And I think baptism 291 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 3: might be a good point there, because it could well 292 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 3: be that baptism was something that was initially meant as 293 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:42,240 Speaker 3: a much more overwhelming, powerful emotional experience, and then it 294 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:45,360 Speaker 3: transitioned into something that people did with infants where you're 295 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:47,960 Speaker 3: not even really going to have an experiential memory of it. 296 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:52,320 Speaker 3: So yeah, there's less emphasis on the overwhelming emotional experience 297 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:54,080 Speaker 3: and encounter with the power of God. 298 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:56,920 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, And of course walk in bathtubs came later 299 00:16:56,960 --> 00:16:57,600 Speaker 2: as well. 300 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:00,320 Speaker 3: Right, Yes, but as your story points out, of course, 301 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:03,240 Speaker 3: I mean even later Christians and modern Christians still do 302 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 3: adult baptism, not just infant baptism. You know, it's just, 303 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:09,200 Speaker 3: you know, there there are different theological points of view 304 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:09,520 Speaker 3: on that. 305 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:11,919 Speaker 2: Clearly we could come back at some later date and 306 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 2: do an entire episode on baptism and baptism related rites. 307 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:19,000 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, absolutely, all right, I'm gonna read the next 308 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:21,320 Speaker 2: one since, uh, since you had a long response to 309 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:23,159 Speaker 2: that last one, give you, We'll give you a break. 310 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:25,920 Speaker 2: This one's This one comes to us from Josh, also 311 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 2: a response to the Mystery Cults, specifically to part three. Uh. 312 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:31,880 Speaker 2: I don't remember which part three really was, but I'm 313 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:39,000 Speaker 2: sure the email will get into it, so Josh says, Hi, 314 00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 2: Joe Robert at all. Listening to the Mysteries Part three, 315 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:45,439 Speaker 2: one of you mentioned eating in the Spirit Realm in 316 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:49,080 Speaker 2: connection with Cora and Hades. I made an immediate connection 317 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:51,919 Speaker 2: to one of my favorite films, Spirited Away, which seems 318 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:55,240 Speaker 2: to have the opposite physics. To Heroes parents were turned 319 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 2: into pigs, but they had eaten the food for the spirits, 320 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:01,320 Speaker 2: and thus it was a punished whereas to hero herself 321 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:04,560 Speaker 2: had to eat from the Spirit realm food in order 322 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 2: to avoid fading. Out of existence as far as the 323 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:11,600 Speaker 2: mysteries themselves are concerned. The totality of the descriptions led 324 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:14,399 Speaker 2: me to wonder if they were what would now be 325 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 2: considered a magic show. Obviously, if viewers did partake in 326 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:22,359 Speaker 2: an hallucinogenic substance, it would certainly have heightened the experience. 327 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:26,600 Speaker 2: If the rights were magic tricks, you wouldn't want outsiders 328 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:30,120 Speaker 2: copying them because of competition, but also a poor reenactment 329 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 2: would possibly ruin the magic by exposing the trick. 330 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 3: I think that's a good point, and I don't. Yeah, 331 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:40,800 Speaker 3: a lot clearly a lot of theatricality was involved could 332 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:43,320 Speaker 3: well extend to like sleight of hand or other types 333 00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:43,760 Speaker 3: of tricks. 334 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:45,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean we got into this a little 335 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:49,480 Speaker 2: bit with Glicon too. Like the criticism of glic On 336 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:53,240 Speaker 2: the Serpent God was that it was a like an 337 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:56,000 Speaker 2: obvious puppet, and you know, they might have had an 338 00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:59,000 Speaker 2: ax to grind, as we discussed, but we might read 339 00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:01,600 Speaker 2: into that that like, yeah, whatever your tricks are, they 340 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:05,600 Speaker 2: need to be convincing. But then again, are your tricks 341 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:09,360 Speaker 2: going to be convincing to someone who doesn't like, willingly 342 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:12,280 Speaker 2: want to believe and be you know, wowed. I can 343 00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:15,080 Speaker 2: imagine some folks just coming into the mystery cults and like, 344 00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 2: do you not want to be converted? Do you not 345 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:21,280 Speaker 2: want to have a revelation about the nature of the universe? 346 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:23,719 Speaker 2: You just want to point at things and accuse them 347 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:24,879 Speaker 2: of being puppets? You know. 348 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:27,720 Speaker 3: I still think we never got an answer on the 349 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:29,960 Speaker 3: question I had about like what was the spirit of 350 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:33,040 Speaker 3: the criticism of the puppet, Like, was it a problem 351 00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 3: that it's a puppet? Because in the religious context here 352 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:38,600 Speaker 3: you've got cult statues for most cults, so it's not 353 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:42,159 Speaker 3: like it's a problem to have a physical representation of 354 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:45,920 Speaker 3: the God that's not literally the God's body. So what's 355 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:48,600 Speaker 3: the Was it an issue of taste? Did they not 356 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 3: like that the puppet was animated? I don't know, Like, 357 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:53,960 Speaker 3: I think we never quite got to the bottom of like, 358 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 3: what was it about the fact that it's a puppet 359 00:19:57,040 --> 00:19:58,440 Speaker 3: that is so bad? 360 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:00,960 Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean, there are lots of bits in churches 361 00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:04,920 Speaker 2: Protestant churches today and have been for decades. Christian puppetry 362 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:07,360 Speaker 2: the whole realm unto itself. 363 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 3: But then you had the other side where you had 364 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:13,199 Speaker 3: like the Christian writers just trying to spoil it for people, yeah, saying, like, 365 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:16,600 Speaker 3: what really happens in the Secret Temple is that they 366 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:17,680 Speaker 3: have sex in there. 367 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:21,879 Speaker 2: All right. Well, Josh continues here and says in terms 368 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:25,479 Speaker 2: of the idea that it may just be copulation or 369 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:28,440 Speaker 2: some other such mondanity. If they had managed to make 370 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:31,800 Speaker 2: a non lethal hallucinogen, and if that was not available 371 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:35,040 Speaker 2: to the masses, anything they showed the initiates would have 372 00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:37,560 Speaker 2: been impressive. Maybe it was just the first black light 373 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 2: art accompanied by Rosius Floyd's Dark Side of Luna's That's cute. Nice. 374 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:47,360 Speaker 2: As for Christmas, in the Netherlands, we have center Class, 375 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:51,600 Speaker 2: which is the Saint's birthday, not Jesus's. Families do a 376 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:54,320 Speaker 2: sort of secret Sannah where they give gifts which are 377 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:57,320 Speaker 2: accompanied by a poem written by the giver about the 378 00:20:57,359 --> 00:21:00,159 Speaker 2: receiver from the point of view of the Saint. So, 379 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 2: even while believing in the authenticity of the living Saint, 380 00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 2: children still pretend to be him and use their knowledge 381 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:09,800 Speaker 2: of the recipient to further the illusion of the saints' omniscience. 382 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:13,560 Speaker 2: They are simultaneously on both sides of the farce. 383 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:14,760 Speaker 3: That's interesting. 384 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:16,720 Speaker 2: I didn't know that. I like that, I like I 385 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:18,600 Speaker 2: say I think I talked a little bit about Santa 386 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:20,960 Speaker 2: Claus and these episodes as well, and I feel my 387 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:23,399 Speaker 2: own take is like, that's the comfortable space to be 388 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:26,959 Speaker 2: in with some sort of a right like this, you know, 389 00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:31,439 Speaker 2: to acknowledge the illusion but also embrace the illusion and 390 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:34,040 Speaker 2: have that middle space for a kind of like the 391 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:38,800 Speaker 2: mythic Yeah. Anyway, Josh says, thanks for the intellectual stimulation. 392 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:43,440 Speaker 2: Cheers Josh. By the way, speaking of gods and goddesses 393 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:48,040 Speaker 2: and cults and mystery cults and so forth, I want 394 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:51,399 Speaker 2: to give a quick shout out to a product that 395 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:53,720 Speaker 2: I've really been enjoying recently. This is not a sponsor. 396 00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:57,320 Speaker 2: This is just something I like that it looks like 397 00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:00,520 Speaker 2: like not enough people have heard about. It only came 398 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:03,480 Speaker 2: out a few months back. It's called Deifi, a mythical 399 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:08,480 Speaker 2: solo role playing game by Alison de' antonio, and it's 400 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:11,439 Speaker 2: really good. Like it is essentially, it's a game you 401 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:14,800 Speaker 2: play by yourself, but it's also heavily based in like 402 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:17,480 Speaker 2: creative writing prompts, and you use a tarot deck to 403 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:21,199 Speaker 2: decide like what's happening as you follow the path of 404 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:25,520 Speaker 2: a god or goddess from their emergence, you know, through 405 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:29,880 Speaker 2: their prime years into their decline along the way, sort 406 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:32,880 Speaker 2: of like navigating what's happening between the gods and also 407 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:35,159 Speaker 2: what's happening with the earthly following below. 408 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:37,359 Speaker 3: Oh interesting, So. 409 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:39,280 Speaker 2: Check that out. If that sounds interesting to you, check 410 00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:42,200 Speaker 2: it out. You can buy this book anywhere you get books. 411 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 2: I'm just personally enjoying it a lot right now. 412 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 3: All right, maybe let's move on to this email from 413 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:58,239 Speaker 3: Jeff about an episode you did, Rob that was an 414 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 3: interview with an author about Douglas Adam. 415 00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:03,399 Speaker 2: Yeah, the episode in question was twenty twenty three's The 416 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:07,159 Speaker 2: Mind of Douglas Adams with Kevin John Davies. Davies wrote 417 00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:10,640 Speaker 2: a book titled The Wildly Improbable Ideas of Douglas Adams, 418 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:15,000 Speaker 2: detailing you know, a lot about the mind and the 419 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:17,040 Speaker 2: life of the author who gave us The Hitchhiker's Guide 420 00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:20,200 Speaker 2: to the Galaxy. It was a fun little chat talking 421 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:22,800 Speaker 2: about Adams, talking about Doctor Who, as well as some 422 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:26,800 Speaker 2: other related classic science fiction and as is essential here 423 00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 2: some video games that were related to the Hitchhikers world 424 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:33,800 Speaker 2: and some of the other worlds of Douglas Adams and 425 00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:35,320 Speaker 2: his involvement in those games. 426 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:38,879 Speaker 3: That's right, So Jeff says, Hey, guys, I found this 427 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:41,080 Speaker 3: unsent in my drafts folder. 428 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:46,320 Speaker 2: That's where the angry emails usually end up, right. They're like, oh, 429 00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:48,480 Speaker 2: I wisely decided not to send this one. 430 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:53,160 Speaker 3: How dare you? So Jeff goes on to say, maybe 431 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:55,800 Speaker 3: not so useful for the show, given the delayed response 432 00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:58,520 Speaker 3: to a Vault episode and even more digression than normal, 433 00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:01,879 Speaker 3: But I thought you two might be personal interested anyway, Jeff, 434 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:05,360 Speaker 3: much to your surprise, here we are here, we are now. 435 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:08,240 Speaker 3: Jeff did have responses to a few other episodes, but 436 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:10,800 Speaker 3: we're skipping ahead to the response to Douglas Adams here, 437 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:14,679 Speaker 3: Jeff says, regarding the Vault episode about Douglas Adams, I 438 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 3: played the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy Interactive Fiction game 439 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:23,320 Speaker 3: back in the day, and it was indeed maddening. It 440 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:27,439 Speaker 3: would lie to you at one point spoiler alert for 441 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:30,600 Speaker 3: a forty year old game. You needed to impress an 442 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 3: AI screening device before it considered you worthy to access 443 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:39,639 Speaker 3: a specific area. You had to show it something intellectually challenging. 444 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 3: The solution was to show it that you simultaneously possessed 445 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:48,640 Speaker 3: both T and no ta. The only way to achieve 446 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,760 Speaker 3: this was to go into your own mind and remove 447 00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:55,160 Speaker 3: your common sense, after which you could easily pick up 448 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:59,080 Speaker 3: no tea while you had some tea in your inventory. 449 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:02,600 Speaker 3: And Jeff, I sympathize. Part of the reason I wanted 450 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:05,359 Speaker 3: to respond to this email despite your warnings was that 451 00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:07,920 Speaker 3: I also, when I was younger, played the Hitchhiker's Guide 452 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:11,040 Speaker 3: to the Galaxy game, which was a if you never 453 00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:13,359 Speaker 3: played a game of this sort, it was kind of 454 00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:16,120 Speaker 3: like the Zork game. It was like text based adventure 455 00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:18,199 Speaker 3: game where you would type command so like you know, 456 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:22,160 Speaker 3: open mailbox, pick up letter, use key, things like that, 457 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:26,760 Speaker 3: and oh boy, this one. I never made it to 458 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:30,119 Speaker 3: whatever situation you're talking about here. I got killed, just 459 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:33,400 Speaker 3: over and over and over again. Much earlier in the game. 460 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:36,639 Speaker 3: I would always get destroyed, like right in the initial invasion, 461 00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:38,600 Speaker 3: the Martians would come in, or I don't know if 462 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:41,080 Speaker 3: they were martians, the aliens would come in and bulldoze 463 00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:41,400 Speaker 3: my house. 464 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:41,720 Speaker 2: I could. 465 00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:43,680 Speaker 3: It took me forever to figure out how to get 466 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:44,320 Speaker 3: out of the house. 467 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:46,640 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's that's like that happens like right away 468 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:47,480 Speaker 2: in Hitchhikers. 469 00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:50,119 Speaker 3: Yes, I mean I think I was in middle school. 470 00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:52,199 Speaker 3: Maybe I'd figure it out better now. I don't know, 471 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:54,080 Speaker 3: maybe having a little bit of a better sense of 472 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:56,639 Speaker 3: the Douglas Adams sense of humor. Because also when I 473 00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:58,680 Speaker 3: played this game, I had no idea what Hitchhiker's Guide 474 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:01,080 Speaker 3: to the cos He was. This was just installed on 475 00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:04,959 Speaker 3: a computer at school. Oh, and I didn't know what 476 00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:05,879 Speaker 3: it was or why. 477 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:06,840 Speaker 2: Yeah. 478 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:10,920 Speaker 3: Anyway, coming back to Jeff's message, while playing a different 479 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:15,000 Speaker 3: interactive fiction game, I was completely baffled by a problem. 480 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:17,480 Speaker 3: I couldn't just google for cheats back then, so in 481 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:20,639 Speaker 3: desperation I wrote directly to the author of the game, 482 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:25,000 Speaker 3: whoa store bough games could be created entirely by one 483 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:29,240 Speaker 3: person then, And he sent back a hand typed postcard 484 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:32,000 Speaker 3: I kept for many years that just said, dear Jeff, 485 00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 3: throw the tape recorder through the window. I wonder what 486 00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:39,600 Speaker 3: the postman thought, you know, I think if you're a 487 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:42,440 Speaker 3: postal worker, you see so much of other people's mail, 488 00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:45,000 Speaker 3: you just get bored with other people's secrets. Does it 489 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:46,400 Speaker 3: even matter to read it anymore? 490 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 2: Yeah? Nowadays they probably stop posting it on their Instagram, 491 00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:51,960 Speaker 2: Like after a couple of weeks of being a male 492 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:53,879 Speaker 2: person Jeff continues. 493 00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:57,000 Speaker 3: The Hitchhiker's Game was released by Infocom, probably the most 494 00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:01,520 Speaker 3: famous interactive fiction game in the company. Infocom's solution to 495 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:04,880 Speaker 3: easing the adult brains of stuck players was the invention 496 00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:10,360 Speaker 3: of Invisicule's books. The books would include hints without ruining 497 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,679 Speaker 3: the whole game for you. The questions were printed in 498 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:17,359 Speaker 3: regular ink, but the solutions were in invisible ink that 499 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:20,399 Speaker 3: would only be revealed when you ran the included magic 500 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:23,919 Speaker 3: marker over them. So if the question is how do 501 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,800 Speaker 3: I open the locked door, the first clue might be 502 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:30,560 Speaker 3: something like did you notice the keyhole? The next, have 503 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,720 Speaker 3: you encountered anyone holding a set of keys? And the 504 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:36,960 Speaker 3: third wait until the guard is sleeping and steal his key. 505 00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:40,160 Speaker 3: The books had a good sense of humor and would 506 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:43,440 Speaker 3: also mess with you. Since all the questions were immediately 507 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:47,000 Speaker 3: visible and therefore potential spoilers, they peppered the hints with 508 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:50,600 Speaker 3: red herrings like don't reveal the next clue until the 509 00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:54,000 Speaker 3: magic bird gives you the shovel, followed by there is 510 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:58,720 Speaker 3: no magic bird in this game, don't ruin your experience 511 00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:02,760 Speaker 3: by revealing clues before where you are absolutely stuck, and 512 00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:05,320 Speaker 3: then Finally, Jeff says, well, buying and running these lost 513 00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:07,760 Speaker 3: games is difficult to do these days. There are sites 514 00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:10,280 Speaker 3: that allow you to play them now. Infocom's games are 515 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 3: true classics, but new interactive fiction games are still being 516 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:15,600 Speaker 3: written today worth checking out. 517 00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:18,360 Speaker 2: Yeah I should. I should check some of these out, 518 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:22,000 Speaker 2: because this is a whole genre of games, early games 519 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,399 Speaker 2: and contemporary games that I really don't know much about 520 00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:28,000 Speaker 2: and don't have any really any direct experience playing them. 521 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:30,440 Speaker 3: I can't believe I didn't think about this until now, 522 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,000 Speaker 3: but I not only played a few of these text 523 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:36,040 Speaker 3: based adventure games, I actually created some when I was 524 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:41,160 Speaker 3: in middle school. Once again, I guess I was exposed 525 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:44,600 Speaker 3: to these things and I was learning CE basic and 526 00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:47,600 Speaker 3: I started programming little text based adventures that I thought 527 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:50,400 Speaker 3: were hilarious at the time. I don't know what i'd 528 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:52,440 Speaker 3: think now. I don't remember what I thought was so funny, 529 00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:55,280 Speaker 3: but I was really yucking it up there on my 530 00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:59,280 Speaker 3: IBM three eighty six. Okay, should we do some weird 531 00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:00,240 Speaker 3: house cinema? Respont? 532 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 2: Sure? Sure? This next one comes to us from Scott. 533 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:14,360 Speaker 2: Subject line the telephone box comments from an old Hi guys. 534 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:17,080 Speaker 2: I enjoyed listening to your recent weird House episode on 535 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:20,080 Speaker 2: the telephone box. Being a person who grew up in 536 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:23,480 Speaker 2: the long ago days when telephone booths ranged the landscape 537 00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:25,920 Speaker 2: in their thousands, I was amused by the two of 538 00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:28,400 Speaker 2: you trying to remember if you'd ever actually used one. 539 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:32,080 Speaker 2: In questioning the apparent incongruity of seeking privacy to make 540 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:34,280 Speaker 2: a phone call while standing in a class box in 541 00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:36,960 Speaker 2: full view. As an official old guy, I believe I 542 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:40,040 Speaker 2: can enlighten you. Privacy is certainly an aspect of the 543 00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:42,680 Speaker 2: enclosed phone booths of your but not in the way 544 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:46,040 Speaker 2: you surmised. Since phone booths were commonly located in busy 545 00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:49,800 Speaker 2: public spaces, environmental noise was a problem. The enclosure was 546 00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:54,080 Speaker 2: to keep external noises out, rather than keeping your conversation in. 547 00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:57,320 Speaker 2: Since you generally had to have coins in hand to 548 00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:00,160 Speaker 2: use one, it was extremely frustrating to pay for the 549 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:03,400 Speaker 2: call only to have a loud bust roll past, obliterating 550 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:05,560 Speaker 2: what you or the other person said. 551 00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:09,000 Speaker 3: They really should have thought of this. Yes, obviously, the 552 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:11,920 Speaker 3: enclosure is to so you can hear your call despite 553 00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:13,280 Speaker 3: being right on the street corner. 554 00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:16,239 Speaker 2: Yeah, because nowadays we all on our cell phones, we 555 00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:18,560 Speaker 2: inevitably have that situation. I have, like a train that 556 00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:21,400 Speaker 2: runs by my house, so sometimes I'll be outside, I'll 557 00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:23,280 Speaker 2: be on the phone. Here comes a train, so I 558 00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:25,360 Speaker 2: can walk inside and get out of the noise. And 559 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:27,800 Speaker 2: you can do that kind of thing obviously in various 560 00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:30,880 Speaker 2: urban environments as well, you know, walk around the corner, 561 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:35,120 Speaker 2: walk inside a restaurant, maybe if they'll allow that. But yeah, 562 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:38,280 Speaker 2: I should have thought about this as well. Anyway, they 563 00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:42,120 Speaker 2: continue making it out in public was a safety feature too. 564 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:46,480 Speaker 2: By being fully exposed to view, thieves couldn't use one 565 00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:49,800 Speaker 2: to lie in ambush undetected, nor could a victim be 566 00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:54,080 Speaker 2: pulled into an opay box to be roughed up away 567 00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:58,080 Speaker 2: from witnesses. The full enclosure also protected the user from 568 00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:00,600 Speaker 2: the elements, keeping you dry in the rain and snow, 569 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:03,880 Speaker 2: protected from wind, and helping to mitigate the cold. Some 570 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:07,520 Speaker 2: had small ventilation fans to alleviate the greenhouse effect of 571 00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:10,800 Speaker 2: all that glass in summer, although one has to wonder 572 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,120 Speaker 2: if the protection was for the benefit of the user 573 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:16,640 Speaker 2: or the telephone equipment. I enjoy being entertained and enlightened 574 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:17,200 Speaker 2: by your work. 575 00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:20,400 Speaker 3: Thank you, Scott, excellent point, Scott, Thank you very much. 576 00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:24,600 Speaker 3: For some reason, the telephone booth scene that kept going 577 00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:26,720 Speaker 3: through my head while reading this is actually the one 578 00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:29,760 Speaker 3: in Scanners where he hacks the computer with his brain 579 00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:31,040 Speaker 3: from the telephone. 580 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:33,800 Speaker 2: Yes, great scene. Yeah, we talked about that in our 581 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:39,280 Speaker 2: Weird House episode on Scanners. I also after we did 582 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:42,680 Speaker 2: the episode, I kept thinking about Clark Kent, of course 583 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:44,760 Speaker 2: always goes into or used to always going to a 584 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:48,120 Speaker 2: phone booth to transform into Superman. Or maybe he didn't 585 00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:49,720 Speaker 2: even do it all that that many times, but he 586 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:52,920 Speaker 2: became the cliche. It became like the iconic thing, like 587 00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:55,880 Speaker 2: it's a place where you can go and change all 588 00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:58,240 Speaker 2: your clothes and change your identity and come out as 589 00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:01,720 Speaker 2: a superhuman, come out as your real identity, take off 590 00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:03,440 Speaker 2: your human disguise, all right. 591 00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:06,200 Speaker 3: This next message is from Ken. Ken says, I love 592 00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:09,960 Speaker 3: the recent reviews of short films and I have a recommendation. 593 00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:12,240 Speaker 3: If you haven't heard of it before, there is a 594 00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:16,640 Speaker 3: short film called The Cube by Jim Henson of the Muppets, etc. 595 00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:19,440 Speaker 3: I think you can find it on YouTube. I saw 596 00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:21,520 Speaker 3: it on television when I was seven years old and 597 00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:24,880 Speaker 3: it really freaked me out. I also didn't understand it 598 00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:27,160 Speaker 3: at all. I had no recollection of what the film 599 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:29,640 Speaker 3: was called, and years later I had to do numerous 600 00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:33,240 Speaker 3: online searches with vague descriptions until I finally found it. 601 00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:36,719 Speaker 3: Hope you find it interesting. Thanks again for the podcast. Sincerely, 602 00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:40,520 Speaker 3: Ken Well Ken Weird Minds Think Alike. This is already 603 00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:42,920 Speaker 3: on my list, It's on my running list for the show. 604 00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:44,920 Speaker 3: I've been thinking about it for months now. 605 00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:47,200 Speaker 2: Oh, I'm all for it. This is a film that 606 00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:51,640 Speaker 2: I'm very familiar with from some of the Jim Henson 607 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:54,880 Speaker 2: documentaries I've seen over the years and exhibits to Atlanta's 608 00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:57,800 Speaker 2: Center for Pubetry Arts, that sort of thing. But I've 609 00:32:57,840 --> 00:32:59,640 Speaker 2: never seen it in full, or at least I don't 610 00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:02,480 Speaker 2: think I have. So Yeah, the next time we were 611 00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:07,400 Speaker 2: feeling the pull for some short cinema, let's do it. 612 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:10,240 Speaker 3: By the way, for those who may be confused about 613 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:13,120 Speaker 3: this right now, this is a different film than Cube, 614 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:16,640 Speaker 3: the one where people awaken in a giant maze of cubes, 615 00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:19,200 Speaker 3: many of which are like full of saws and stuff 616 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:19,920 Speaker 3: that murder them. 617 00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:23,640 Speaker 2: But I'm up for that one as well, and I 618 00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:25,600 Speaker 2: don't think I've ever seen that one in full. I've 619 00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:28,120 Speaker 2: just seen like chunks of it, bloody chunks of it 620 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:31,320 Speaker 2: on TV back in the day. 621 00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:33,720 Speaker 3: I think that one's Canadian, isn't it. 622 00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:36,200 Speaker 2: It is, in fact Canadian. Yes, so they're both on 623 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:39,640 Speaker 2: the list. Yeah, both get everything you want. Ken all right, 624 00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:48,080 Speaker 2: This next one comes to us from Lawrence. Lawrence says, Hi, Robert, Joe, 625 00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:50,680 Speaker 2: and JJ, thank you for covering The Hunger. I never 626 00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:53,920 Speaker 2: realized it was poorly received. It's resurgence in the nineties, 627 00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:58,600 Speaker 2: where all things vampire reign culturally supreme, was not nearly 628 00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:01,160 Speaker 2: as surprising. I'll always thought of The Hunger as one 629 00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:04,520 Speaker 2: of those non vampire vampire stories, movies that sort of 630 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:07,880 Speaker 2: lie somewhere between sci fi blood drinkers and people who 631 00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:10,040 Speaker 2: only think they're vampires. Do you know what I mean? 632 00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:12,600 Speaker 3: I do know what you mean. The only movie I 633 00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:15,560 Speaker 3: can think of at the moment where it's ambiguous where 634 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:20,200 Speaker 3: the vampire is actually a vampire is George Rameiro's Martin. 635 00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:24,520 Speaker 2: That's a big one. Yeah, you also see this if 636 00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:26,920 Speaker 2: we think of this as like a soft vampire film, 637 00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:31,120 Speaker 2: we do also have examples of software wolf films, and 638 00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:33,640 Speaker 2: as I recently discussed on The Monster Fact, this is 639 00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:36,600 Speaker 2: kind of an interesting category because you can get into 640 00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:40,600 Speaker 2: the history of the terminology for like lacanthropy and werewolf, 641 00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:45,160 Speaker 2: but especially lacanthropy is early usage being like a catch 642 00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:51,279 Speaker 2: all description for different conditions that were probably mental illnesses. 643 00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:55,080 Speaker 2: And so there's this whole realm of usage for the 644 00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:58,800 Speaker 2: term lacanthropy that is just tied to you know, actual 645 00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:04,880 Speaker 2: observations and atten to classify some forms of mental illness 646 00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:10,359 Speaker 2: or disease. So yeah, In fact, one of the big 647 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:15,440 Speaker 2: ones the the Lon Cheney Junior Wolfman movie. Originally in 648 00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:17,719 Speaker 2: the script that one was going to leave it ambiguous 649 00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:20,319 Speaker 2: whether he was turning into a wolf or not, like 650 00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:23,480 Speaker 2: it was going to be a software wolf movie. And 651 00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:25,560 Speaker 2: then at some point in the production they were like, no, no, no, 652 00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:27,799 Speaker 2: we want a real wolf man. People want to see 653 00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:30,400 Speaker 2: a wolf man, and so it took the form that 654 00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:32,680 Speaker 2: we all know and love. It's hard to argue with 655 00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:37,399 Speaker 2: that absolutely anyway. The email continues here from Lawrence. Lawrence says, 656 00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:40,680 Speaker 2: as for Weird House Picks nineteen eighty two's Cat People 657 00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:44,200 Speaker 2: and Donkey Skin are both touched the fur movies. I 658 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:47,719 Speaker 2: can recommend both because Criterion has a beautiful transfer of 659 00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:51,640 Speaker 2: Donkey Skin and Cat People spares showing us any Malcolm 660 00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:56,360 Speaker 2: McDowell Sex. Thanks thanks for all you do, Lawrence. Indeed, Lawrence, 661 00:35:56,440 --> 00:36:07,839 Speaker 2: that is all essential to know. Moving farm. All right. 662 00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:11,560 Speaker 3: This next message is from Jesse. Jesse says, hey, guys, 663 00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:14,279 Speaker 3: I'll have to not gush here. I love you both 664 00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:17,120 Speaker 3: and I'm so grateful for your shows. And then Jesse 665 00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:19,719 Speaker 3: goes on to say some very nice things about the podcast. 666 00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:22,399 Speaker 3: We'll skip a bit here, but thank you Jesse, very 667 00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:25,840 Speaker 3: kind of you. Jesse says, I do have some suggestions 668 00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:28,479 Speaker 3: that I have not seen on Weird House Cinema yet. 669 00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:32,279 Speaker 3: The first suggestion is an afterthought and not why I 670 00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:34,840 Speaker 3: originally wanted to write in. However, I was watching this 671 00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:38,040 Speaker 3: movie with my kids tonight and realized with surprise that 672 00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:40,920 Speaker 3: I hadn't yet seen it come into your purview. Flight 673 00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:44,160 Speaker 3: of the Navigator. It is so obvious I am forced 674 00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:47,240 Speaker 3: to conclude that you had already considered it and decided 675 00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:51,080 Speaker 3: it just doesn't fit, which I understand with protest if 676 00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:54,759 Speaker 3: the case. No, I don't think we've ruled it out yet, 677 00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:56,680 Speaker 3: or I don't know if you have. I haven't looked 678 00:36:56,719 --> 00:36:58,280 Speaker 3: into it. I haven't seen this movie. 679 00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:01,040 Speaker 2: I saw it as a kid, and I have to 680 00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:04,319 Speaker 2: say flight to the Navigator. This was nineteen eighty six. 681 00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:07,799 Speaker 2: This one really unsettled me in a way I don't 682 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:11,960 Speaker 2: think I ever quite recovered from. Like, it has some 683 00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:15,040 Speaker 2: minor spoilers, it has some plot elements and including that 684 00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:20,560 Speaker 2: involved like time dilation, and and it just gets it 685 00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:24,319 Speaker 2: gets a lot heavier than perhaps I expected, to the 686 00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:27,840 Speaker 2: degree to which I had any expectations going into movies 687 00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:31,919 Speaker 2: as a kid. But yeah, this one troubled me. And 688 00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:34,640 Speaker 2: I think it troubled me enough that I've kind of 689 00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:37,399 Speaker 2: stayed away from it, Like not to this extent where 690 00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:40,960 Speaker 2: I'm turning down opportunities to watch it, but I've maybe 691 00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:44,160 Speaker 2: just have like subconscious barriers up to rewatching Flight of 692 00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:48,480 Speaker 2: the Navigator. Therefore, I would obviously love to go back 693 00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:51,239 Speaker 2: and watch it and reevaluate it as a grown up 694 00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:55,399 Speaker 2: and as a parent and all of that. So yeah, 695 00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:57,920 Speaker 2: I'd love to put it on the list. I know 696 00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:00,359 Speaker 2: it's one that a lot of folks saw. Ask and 697 00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:04,120 Speaker 2: I wonder how many other viewers had a similar reaction 698 00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:05,399 Speaker 2: to the one I had. 699 00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:08,520 Speaker 3: Sorry, I was laughing during your answer because I realized 700 00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:12,560 Speaker 3: I was mixing up two movies. Really, until you started 701 00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:15,560 Speaker 3: talking about I was not thinking of Flight of the Navigator. 702 00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:19,480 Speaker 3: I was thinking of night Flyers from nineteen eighty seven, 703 00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:24,600 Speaker 3: which is the George R. R. Martin and vampire movie 704 00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:29,040 Speaker 3: with Miguel Ferraer. Wait, oh my god, no, this is 705 00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:32,040 Speaker 3: I double mixed it up. I was mixing up George R. 706 00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:35,719 Speaker 3: Martin's Night Flyers, the sci fi horror movie, with Flight 707 00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:37,759 Speaker 3: of the Navigator. But what I really had in my 708 00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:41,280 Speaker 3: mind was not Night Flyers. It was The night Flyer, 709 00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:45,520 Speaker 3: a film with Miguel Ferrera about a vampire that is 710 00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:48,520 Speaker 3: based on a story by Stephen King, which I was 711 00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:52,800 Speaker 3: confusing with the Martin sci fi. This is all a 712 00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:56,160 Speaker 3: jumble now, but either way, I was thinking about like 713 00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:59,399 Speaker 3: an R rated horror movie, not not like I made 714 00:38:59,440 --> 00:38:59,759 Speaker 3: for kids. 715 00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:04,960 Speaker 2: Oh well, I haven't seen The night Flyer, nor did 716 00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:07,839 Speaker 2: I ever read the short story that it's based upon. 717 00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:10,160 Speaker 2: But I do remember seeing the video box with that 718 00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:14,400 Speaker 2: piteous looking vampire and the airplane on it. 719 00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:17,200 Speaker 3: It would be hilarious if Jesse wrote in like, yeah, 720 00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:19,440 Speaker 3: the other day I was watching The night Flyer with 721 00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:20,120 Speaker 3: my kids. 722 00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:22,960 Speaker 2: All right, well, we'll put them all on the consideration list. 723 00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:27,000 Speaker 3: Next, Jesse says, the second suggestion is why I'm writing 724 00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:30,160 Speaker 3: have you guys seen the nineteen eighty five made for 725 00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:34,840 Speaker 3: TV rendition of Alice in Wonderland? Hands down the weirdest 726 00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:38,880 Speaker 3: movie I have ever seen, terrifying in parts with the 727 00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:42,920 Speaker 3: grace of such stars as Ringo Starr and Sammy Davis Junior. 728 00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:47,160 Speaker 3: The music is terrible and the movie is long and bad. 729 00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:49,600 Speaker 3: Whether or not you ever take the leap and do 730 00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:52,520 Speaker 3: it for the show, given your proclivities, I highly recommend 731 00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:55,080 Speaker 3: you at least check it out for yourselves, as it 732 00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:59,200 Speaker 3: is unmatched as far as zany eighties fair goes. Also, 733 00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:02,200 Speaker 3: the rendition of the Jabberwaukee in that movie gave me 734 00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:06,040 Speaker 3: nightmares for years as a kid. It is great. You 735 00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:09,400 Speaker 3: can watch it free on YouTube, and then Jesse shares 736 00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:14,960 Speaker 3: a link. Jesse says all my best, deepest thanks to you, guys. Jesse, Well, 737 00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:18,040 Speaker 3: thank you so much, Jesse. I really really appreciate the 738 00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:21,600 Speaker 3: email and the suggestions. I've not seen either of these movies, 739 00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:23,560 Speaker 3: but I'm going to look up the Alice in Wonderland. 740 00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:26,359 Speaker 2: I looked at it briefly on IMDb, and I did 741 00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:31,000 Speaker 2: notice that Jason Lives director Tom McLachlan plays the Jabberwakie 742 00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:33,160 Speaker 2: is in the jabberwaki suit, So there you go. 743 00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:37,400 Speaker 3: Oh my god, I just looked it up. It looks 744 00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:39,759 Speaker 3: like what does it remind me of? 745 00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:40,520 Speaker 2: It's like. 746 00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:45,880 Speaker 3: That that Russian rendition of Lord of the Rings, but 747 00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:47,320 Speaker 3: with much brighter colors. 748 00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:55,319 Speaker 2: The jabberwaki costume in question does look horrifying, like in 749 00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:58,480 Speaker 2: not super JABBERWACKI e. You know, it doesn't look like 750 00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:03,760 Speaker 2: that iconic illustration so much. It looks a little weirdly fleshy. 751 00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:07,480 Speaker 3: Man says Bow Bridges and Carol Channing. 752 00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:10,160 Speaker 2: Oh wow, yeah, I glanced at the cast. It's a crazy, 753 00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:12,240 Speaker 2: crazy collection of actors. 754 00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:16,640 Speaker 3: Lloyd Bridges is the White Knight, John Stamos Wow. 755 00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:21,359 Speaker 2: All right. As we begin to close out here, I'm 756 00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:24,080 Speaker 2: just gonna turn to discord here. I have a few 757 00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:28,520 Speaker 2: just random short thoughts from folks here about various things, 758 00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:38,320 Speaker 2: beginning here with Thorkwall. Thorkwell writes then and says, I 759 00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:40,680 Speaker 2: just finished listening to part three of Hunters of the 760 00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:43,640 Speaker 2: Deep and had mentioned it to my significant other, and 761 00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:47,399 Speaker 2: she pointed out a fact I may have missed if 762 00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:51,240 Speaker 2: it was mentioned. I've never realized the Black Sea Devil 763 00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:54,040 Speaker 2: angler it was only six inches or fifteen centimeters or 764 00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:57,640 Speaker 2: so long. I too had similar posters of fish growing 765 00:41:57,719 --> 00:42:01,000 Speaker 2: up like rob and perhaps the various illustrations not drawn 766 00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:04,160 Speaker 2: to scale threw off my perspective. I'm glad it's not 767 00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:04,400 Speaker 2: just me. 768 00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:08,480 Speaker 3: See, it's often hard to get scale with uh, with 769 00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:10,759 Speaker 3: sea creatures, you know. Yeah, you don't have like a 770 00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:13,840 Speaker 3: tree in the background to. 771 00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:16,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, or tape measure or a tape dispenser. That's what 772 00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:23,719 Speaker 2: you put next to things, right, all right? And then 773 00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:26,360 Speaker 2: a shadow rat rites, Senden says. I just watched and 774 00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:29,800 Speaker 2: loved La Cabina. It really reminded me of the nineties 775 00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:33,960 Speaker 2: movie Cube. Oh, with this sense that some unchecked industry 776 00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:37,840 Speaker 2: is just producing this horrifying death trap for no reason. 777 00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:40,560 Speaker 2: It has to have been an inspiration for. 778 00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:43,040 Speaker 3: Cube seems quite possible. 779 00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:46,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, then hot Napalm death rights, Senden says, finally, 780 00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:49,640 Speaker 2: listening to the Dune episodes, one factor that you missed 781 00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:53,120 Speaker 2: when discussing the failed Jodrowski Dune project was that if 782 00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:56,640 Speaker 2: it had succeeded, we probably wouldn't have Alien or the 783 00:42:56,640 --> 00:43:02,520 Speaker 2: Alien franchise. That's a great, great point as well. I 784 00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:06,920 Speaker 2: think we did allude to the fact that that project 785 00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:10,759 Speaker 2: not coming together did lead to a number of different projects, 786 00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:14,920 Speaker 2: things that Jordroowski himself did, like say the Metabarons graphic 787 00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:18,840 Speaker 2: novel series. That's great in his work with Mobius there, 788 00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:22,319 Speaker 2: but yeah, so many other things kind of sprang out 789 00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:26,000 Speaker 2: of that. It was very much like a we can 790 00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:29,480 Speaker 2: almost think of it as a whale fall, a cinematic 791 00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:31,719 Speaker 2: whale fall. Like it did not come to fruition. It 792 00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:34,239 Speaker 2: sank to the bottom and it was consumed by all 793 00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:43,120 Speaker 2: of these other creatures and therefore fed a rich ecosystem. 794 00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:46,000 Speaker 2: All right, Taylor Wright Senten says, just finish the Hunger episode, 795 00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:48,880 Speaker 2: and it reminded me of another eternal vampire goth romance 796 00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:51,600 Speaker 2: movie that The Hunger must have inspired and would make 797 00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:55,400 Speaker 2: its own excellent weird house episode Only Lovers Left Alive. 798 00:43:56,320 --> 00:44:00,799 Speaker 2: Tilda Swinton and Tom Hilston are our listless immortal in 799 00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:03,120 Speaker 2: that one, which tackles a lot of the same US 800 00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:05,960 Speaker 2: against the World themes that Joe referenced and has a 801 00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:09,480 Speaker 2: great shoegaze score. Also, my wife and I watched The 802 00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:12,480 Speaker 2: Love Witch for our Valentine's Day after a few of 803 00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:15,120 Speaker 2: y'all here in the discord turned me on to it, 804 00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:17,960 Speaker 2: and may I say thank you, it was a darkly 805 00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:21,359 Speaker 2: hilarious treat. All real world reds are dull. 806 00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:25,200 Speaker 3: Now The Love Witch is fantastic. I think often about 807 00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:28,239 Speaker 3: the way that movie looks, which is so interesting. It 808 00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:32,640 Speaker 3: feels both reminiscent of a time gone by, like it 809 00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:36,080 Speaker 3: looks like a way that it seems movies used to 810 00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:38,880 Speaker 3: look but don't look anymore, but also feels like a 811 00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:42,960 Speaker 3: totally different visual aesthetic has been created as well. 812 00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:47,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, I recently rewatched The Love Witch on an airplane 813 00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:50,200 Speaker 2: and fell in love with it all over again. I 814 00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:52,400 Speaker 2: feel like it in its own way. It's a perfect 815 00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:56,920 Speaker 2: film in that it clearly knew exactly what it wanted 816 00:44:57,040 --> 00:45:00,239 Speaker 2: to convey and what it wanted to capture and and 817 00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:03,720 Speaker 2: seemingly pulled all of that off. So I can't recommend 818 00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:06,000 Speaker 2: The love Which enough. It's you know, it's maybe not 819 00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:07,960 Speaker 2: for everyone, but if it is for you, then it's 820 00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:11,040 Speaker 2: perfect all right. And finally, there was some discussion on 821 00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:13,840 Speaker 2: the discord about what sort of film we should be 822 00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:17,160 Speaker 2: considering for the two hundredth Weird House Cinema selection, which 823 00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:22,000 Speaker 2: is coming up let's see a week from tomorrow, So Joe, 824 00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:23,520 Speaker 2: you can give me some feedback here I'm just going 825 00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:25,640 Speaker 2: to run through the list of the movies that were mentioned. 826 00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:28,560 Speaker 2: First of all, nineteen seventy five is the Rocky Horror 827 00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:32,719 Speaker 2: Picture Show classic of course. Yeah, seventy four's Phantom of 828 00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:35,160 Speaker 2: the Paradise. Ooh, I mean we talk about that at 829 00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:38,959 Speaker 2: least every couple of weeks anyway. Yeah, yeah, Midsommer from 830 00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:42,040 Speaker 2: twenty nineteen. I haven't seen that when I can't come. 831 00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:48,960 Speaker 3: I liked it. It's a great feel bad movie. But no, 832 00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:51,120 Speaker 3: I mean it really is good. But the vibes are 833 00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:55,680 Speaker 3: bad and it's a good film, and it I don't 834 00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:57,359 Speaker 3: know if I want to talk about that on Weird House. 835 00:45:57,920 --> 00:45:59,439 Speaker 3: It seems like it'd be a bummer of a time. 836 00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:03,840 Speaker 2: Was that a twenty four film? Yes, okay, there's I 837 00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:07,080 Speaker 2: recently with Serve some ads or maybe I follow the 838 00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:11,000 Speaker 2: account for an a twenty four film themed burless show, 839 00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:13,680 Speaker 2: and my initial thought was like, I think they pulled 840 00:46:13,719 --> 00:46:15,279 Speaker 2: it off. I think they pulled it off. I saw 841 00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:17,560 Speaker 2: later the images It's like it looked fun but I 842 00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:19,600 Speaker 2: was like, wow, that is a challenging theme for your 843 00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:21,759 Speaker 2: burless show to go with a twenty four But. 844 00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:25,040 Speaker 3: I respect that though. That's funny and I can see 845 00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:27,399 Speaker 3: how you can make it work. But yeah, Midsommar is great, 846 00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:29,399 Speaker 3: but I kind of doubt we'll do it on Weird House. 847 00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:31,919 Speaker 2: Okay, how about the next one? Nineteen ninety nine's BeO 848 00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:34,240 Speaker 2: Wolf starting with stuff Lambert. 849 00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:36,919 Speaker 3: I don't know, that's more possible. It's been a long 850 00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:39,440 Speaker 3: time since I've seen it. That's the one that's like 851 00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:42,600 Speaker 3: sci fi BeO Wolf It yeah, place in a castle 852 00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:44,960 Speaker 3: in the future or maybe with lasers. 853 00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:48,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's all fun and games until the worst CGI 854 00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:53,319 Speaker 2: thing of all time emerges. It's like Beyond the Rock 855 00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:54,879 Speaker 2: Scorpion monster. 856 00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:57,799 Speaker 3: The Grendel I recall looks like it's made out of 857 00:46:57,920 --> 00:46:59,440 Speaker 3: CGI link sausages. 858 00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:03,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the one, all right. So that one's a 859 00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:07,080 Speaker 2: maybe nineteen ninety nine's bi centennial man. 860 00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:09,719 Speaker 3: Never seen it. But is that the one that's got 861 00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:12,520 Speaker 3: Robin Williams as a robot of some kind? 862 00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:16,520 Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, I feel like we might do a Robin 863 00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:19,360 Speaker 2: Williams film eventually. He was such a great and weird 864 00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:22,160 Speaker 2: performer in his own right. But I think there's some 865 00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:23,800 Speaker 2: other Robin Williams films that are going to be a 866 00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:29,280 Speaker 2: little higher up the list. Flubber sure, all right, nineteen 867 00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:33,160 Speaker 2: ninety nine's Wild Zero, the Japanese comedy horror film. 868 00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:36,520 Speaker 3: Weirdly Enough, I was just recently looking at revisiting that 869 00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:38,400 Speaker 3: on the show. I saw that when I was in 870 00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:40,600 Speaker 3: high school. My friend Ben showed it to me, and 871 00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:43,160 Speaker 3: that was a great time. I recall it's been for long. 872 00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:46,880 Speaker 3: I barely remember it, but I recall it was absolutely nuts, 873 00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:48,439 Speaker 3: but in a great, great way. 874 00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:52,399 Speaker 2: All right. The next one is the Romanian sci fi 875 00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:56,640 Speaker 2: animated film Delta Space Mission. This is one I haven't 876 00:47:56,640 --> 00:47:58,400 Speaker 2: seen it. I don't think you've seen it either, but 877 00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:01,000 Speaker 2: this one has been on my radar because looks super weird. 878 00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:04,400 Speaker 2: I actually I watched part of it on an airplane, 879 00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:06,719 Speaker 2: but then switch to something else because I just not 880 00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:08,520 Speaker 2: because there was anything wrong with it, but it just 881 00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:10,240 Speaker 2: wasn't the vibe I was going for at the moment. 882 00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:13,239 Speaker 2: But it was on Criterion Channel for a bit, and 883 00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:15,560 Speaker 2: I believe def Crocodile put it out on Blu Ray. 884 00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:18,840 Speaker 2: I have a really nice package. It looks amazing. I 885 00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:21,279 Speaker 2: don't know if it's right for the two hundredth Weird 886 00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:23,319 Speaker 2: House Cinema selection, but it is one we might come 887 00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:26,239 Speaker 2: back to. And then finally it was also mentioned that 888 00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:30,120 Speaker 2: we might consider nineteen eighty three's Video Drome, given that 889 00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:34,640 Speaker 2: we often reference the Atlanta Videodrome a rental store. Plus. 890 00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:36,799 Speaker 2: Videodrome is a movie that does come up in our 891 00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:40,040 Speaker 2: conversations a lot, both on Weird House Cinema and un 892 00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:41,000 Speaker 2: Stuck to Below Your Mind. 893 00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:43,160 Speaker 3: You know, I think of it almost more like a 894 00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:47,120 Speaker 3: reference text for us than something we would feature. But 895 00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:49,080 Speaker 3: if that doesn't make sense. 896 00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:53,799 Speaker 2: That's somehow I have similar feelings about. I'm very much 897 00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:55,600 Speaker 2: on the fence when it comes to Rocky Horror Picture 898 00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:59,160 Speaker 2: Show because it's Rocky Horror Picture Show feels like kind 899 00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:03,360 Speaker 2: of a foundation text, at least for me personally, and like, so, 900 00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:05,319 Speaker 2: I don't know. It's like sometimes I'm like, yes, we 901 00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:07,400 Speaker 2: absolutely should do Rocky Our Picture Show, and then other 902 00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:09,839 Speaker 2: times I'm like, no, It's like Rocky our Picture Show 903 00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:12,279 Speaker 2: is what you refer back to to make sense of 904 00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:12,959 Speaker 2: everything else. 905 00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:14,879 Speaker 3: So I know, I know exactly what you're talking about. 906 00:49:14,920 --> 00:49:16,480 Speaker 3: That's sort of what I mean about Video Dream. 907 00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:17,120 Speaker 1: Yeah. 908 00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:18,479 Speaker 2: Yeah, seems more like. 909 00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:21,960 Speaker 3: The thing that we compare and contrast the movie we're 910 00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:24,960 Speaker 3: talking about two rather than the movie we talk about. 911 00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:27,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, So ultimately, maybe we're more likely to do like 912 00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:31,440 Speaker 2: shock treatment at some point, or do some sort of 913 00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:34,799 Speaker 2: obviously a bad video drome rip off that sort of thing. 914 00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:39,440 Speaker 2: At any rate, I really enjoyed reading through everyone's suggestions 915 00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:41,440 Speaker 2: in the Discord Server. That's the sort of back and 916 00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:43,480 Speaker 2: forth you can get if you joined The Stuff to 917 00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:44,800 Speaker 2: Blow your Mind discord Server. 918 00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:48,040 Speaker 3: I'm not promising either one, but for some reason, I 919 00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:51,120 Speaker 3: would say it's more likely that we do existens than 920 00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:52,400 Speaker 3: that we do video drome. 921 00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:56,200 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh yeah, that would be that would be 922 00:49:56,200 --> 00:49:58,520 Speaker 2: a choice for sure. I haven't seen that one in 923 00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:01,480 Speaker 2: a while. All Right, well, we're going to keep thinking 924 00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:04,239 Speaker 2: about it. You'll find out one way or another in 925 00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:08,520 Speaker 2: about a week. In the meantime, we thank everyone for 926 00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:10,720 Speaker 2: writing in, and we just encourage you to keep writing. 927 00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:12,440 Speaker 2: We remind you The Stuff to Blow Your Mind is 928 00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:14,880 Speaker 2: primarily a science and culture podcast, with core episodes on 929 00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:18,280 Speaker 2: Tuesdays and Thursday, short form episodes on Wednesdays and on Fridays. 930 00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:20,560 Speaker 2: We set aside most serious concerns to just talk about 931 00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:25,000 Speaker 2: a weird film on Weird House Cinema. Again, write in 932 00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:27,239 Speaker 2: if you want to join the discord Server, look look 933 00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:30,200 Speaker 2: find us online. We're on various social media accounts as well. 934 00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:33,000 Speaker 2: Get the podcast wherever you get your podcasts, and if 935 00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:36,120 Speaker 2: you're on letterboxed, you can go there and find us. 936 00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:39,279 Speaker 2: On letterbox our username is weird House. Follow us there 937 00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:40,600 Speaker 2: and you can find a nice list of all the 938 00:50:40,600 --> 00:50:42,080 Speaker 2: Weird House movies we've ever done. 939 00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:46,040 Speaker 3: Huge thanks, as always to our excellent audio producer JJ Posway. 940 00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:48,000 Speaker 3: If you would like to get in touch with us 941 00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:50,480 Speaker 3: with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest 942 00:50:50,520 --> 00:50:52,640 Speaker 3: a topic for the future, or just to say hello, 943 00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:55,560 Speaker 3: you can email us at contact at stuff to blow 944 00:50:55,560 --> 00:51:03,280 Speaker 3: your Mind dot com. 945 00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:06,440 Speaker 1: Stuffed Blow your Mind is a production of iHeartRadio. For 946 00:51:06,520 --> 00:51:10,360 Speaker 1: more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 947 00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:12,200 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.