1 00:00:02,759 --> 00:00:07,000 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Law with June Grossel from Bloomberg Radio. 2 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:12,640 Speaker 2: You may remember last spring, during the federal crackdown targeting 3 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:18,479 Speaker 2: pro Palestinian campus activities, Secretary of State Marco Rubio pushed 4 00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:23,159 Speaker 2: back against criticism over the administration revoking green cards and 5 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:24,240 Speaker 2: student visas. 6 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 3: This is not about free speech. 7 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 1: This is about people that don't have a right to 8 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 1: be in the United States. 9 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:30,240 Speaker 2: To begin with, No one has a right to a 10 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 2: student visa. 11 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:32,520 Speaker 3: No one has a right to a green card. 12 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:34,839 Speaker 2: By the way, now there is a new kind of 13 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 2: focus on green cards by the Trump administration, one that 14 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:43,080 Speaker 2: affects immigrants when they're applying for permanent residency or a 15 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:47,000 Speaker 2: green card. Ten days ago, the Department of Homeland Security 16 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:51,800 Speaker 2: announced that immigrants seeking permanent residency would have to return 17 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 2: to their home countries to wait for their green cards, 18 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:58,640 Speaker 2: a sweeping change in the policy of allowing them to 19 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 2: remain in this country while waiting. But then a week 20 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:06,880 Speaker 2: later DHS appeared to walk back the changes, causing whiplash 21 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 2: among applicants and their attorneys. My guest is immigration law 22 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 2: expert Leon Fresco, a partner at Holland and Knight. Leon 23 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:18,360 Speaker 2: what was this latest policy change. 24 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:22,120 Speaker 1: Well, let's start with some basic immigration law. When a 25 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 1: person wants lawful, permanent residency in the United States, there's 26 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:29,400 Speaker 1: two ways for them to achieve that goal. One is 27 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 1: to apply from abroad, which is called consular processing. And 28 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:36,640 Speaker 1: when you do that, you put whatever application you first 29 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:38,880 Speaker 1: have to put in with US. It is in CHIP 30 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 1: and Immigration Services that says you qualify for whatever green 31 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:45,120 Speaker 1: card it is. Let's say it's that you have a 32 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:48,200 Speaker 1: US it is in spouse, or a US it isn't parent, 33 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 1: or a US it is in child, or that you 34 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 1: have an employer that's willing to pay you to come 35 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 1: work in the United States, or you're an extraordinary Einstein 36 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 1: type of person, or you've invested a million dollars into 37 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 1: the US economy and created ten jobs. Those are the 38 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:08,240 Speaker 1: basic criteria for a green card. And then the second 39 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:11,600 Speaker 1: part is if you're abroad, you go. 40 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:13,480 Speaker 3: To an embassy appointment. 41 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:15,799 Speaker 1: You know, once that first part is approved by US 42 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 1: citizen Ship and Immigration Services, the State Department makes a 43 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 1: determination as to whether you're admissible into the country. And 44 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 1: by admissible, that means you know, you're not a terrorist, 45 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 1: a drug dealer, a criminal, that. 46 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:28,520 Speaker 3: Kind of thing. 47 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:32,959 Speaker 1: Now, if you're inside the United States and you're here legally, 48 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 1: you can do what's called adjustment of status, which is 49 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:40,080 Speaker 1: instead of leaving the country to apply for the green card, 50 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:43,080 Speaker 1: you can do both steps that I've described from inside 51 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:45,400 Speaker 1: the United States. You file them at the same time. 52 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:50,080 Speaker 1: You file first for the application that says, yes, I 53 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:53,520 Speaker 1: do qualify for whatever Green card category I qualify for, 54 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:56,919 Speaker 1: and I'm also admissible to the United States. And that's 55 00:02:56,960 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 1: called filing for adjustment of status. So what the new 56 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:06,360 Speaker 1: announcement by US Citizenship Immigration Services tried to say last 57 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 1: week is it said that because the Adjustment of Status 58 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 1: Statute i NA two forty five is discretionary, saying that 59 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 1: you know, the Secretary of Homeland Security may adjust status. Well, 60 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:22,799 Speaker 1: we're just reminding every one of that, and we're saying, well, 61 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 1: we're not going to exercise that discretion unless it's an extreme, 62 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:31,959 Speaker 1: extraordinary circumstance case. Now, their memo itself didn't say that. 63 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 1: Their press release said that because that would have been 64 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 1: completely contrary to the intent of the statute, which says 65 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 1: that you can do it. And there's actual statutory language 66 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 1: with regard to high skilled immigration and investors and everything 67 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 1: else that specifically says you can do it, but this 68 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 1: for a week freaked out every there's about a million 69 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 1: people like this in the United States that are in 70 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 1: the middle of their green card process, and every one 71 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 1: of my clients, I would say, hundreds called me or 72 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 1: emailed me or texted me. 73 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 3: Do I have to go home? What's going to happen? 74 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 3: Et cetera. 75 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 1: And I told them, look, this memo is gonna be 76 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 1: walked back. It's illegal. There will be litigation on this probably, 77 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 1: And so on Friday, May thirtieth, we had a situation 78 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:23,600 Speaker 1: where a press person, an unnamed press person, said no, no, no, 79 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:28,159 Speaker 1: this memo just reminds our adjudicators that they can use discretion. 80 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 1: But it's not telling everybody to go home. So this 81 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:33,160 Speaker 1: thing is going to remain in flux. 82 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:38,120 Speaker 2: Are there certain groups of people applying for green cards 83 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 2: that might be most affected. 84 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:44,800 Speaker 1: The couple of groups that concerned me that really need 85 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 1: to think about, you know, what's going to happen in 86 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:48,240 Speaker 1: their cases moving forward. 87 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:53,480 Speaker 3: Are first of all, if you are someone who's. 88 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 1: Came here legally on a visa, but you overstayed your 89 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:01,360 Speaker 1: visa and you gave birth to a the US citizen child, 90 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 1: and that child is now over twenty one, so they 91 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:07,480 Speaker 1: can now petition for you for a green card. I 92 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 1: especially imagine after the birthright citizenship case, whenever that's decided, 93 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:15,920 Speaker 1: assuming that's decided against the Trump administration's position, they're gonna 94 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:18,160 Speaker 1: be very angry about that decision and they're gonna try 95 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 1: to crack down on that way of getting Green cards, 96 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 1: and there's gonna have to be litigation on that. 97 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:26,360 Speaker 3: But that's one aspect of this. 98 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:30,600 Speaker 1: But I also think in general, people who overstay their 99 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 1: visa and let's say they get married to a US citizen, 100 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 1: like the Sandra Bullock Ryan Reynolds Green Card movie you 101 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:41,560 Speaker 1: know where that happens, or the Gerard de Parnout Green 102 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 1: Card movie, or any number of Green card movies that 103 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:47,360 Speaker 1: you have, those people are gonna face a lot more 104 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 1: scrutiny also when their Green card applications go forward. And 105 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:53,240 Speaker 1: the reason for all of this is because there's been 106 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 1: recent case law from the Supreme Court that's not been 107 00:05:56,640 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 1: very helpful that said that because adjustment of status is 108 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:04,040 Speaker 1: a may statute, it's a discretionary statue. We're not gonna 109 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:08,840 Speaker 1: review denials of adjustment of status. So as long as 110 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 1: they can cabin these denials to individual cases, they can 111 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 1: kind of try to create an environment where they create 112 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 1: a blanket ban, which I think a blanket ban could 113 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 1: be challenged, But if they're saying they're just doing this 114 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:25,680 Speaker 1: in individual cases, it's going to be much harder to challenge, 115 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:27,640 Speaker 1: and the courts are either going to have to change 116 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:30,800 Speaker 1: what they said or come up with some exception, or 117 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 1: they will let all of these cases get denied individually. 118 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:37,160 Speaker 1: So that's where we stand, and there's still a lot 119 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:39,960 Speaker 1: of flux and a lot of gray areas and something 120 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:43,160 Speaker 1: we can keep talking about as we do these podcasts, 121 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 1: But a lot of people are still very nervous about this. 122 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 2: What's the danger of going back to your home country 123 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 2: and waiting for your green card? 124 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:54,039 Speaker 3: So there's two or three dangers. 125 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 1: Number One, a lot of people can't lead because they 126 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 1: have jobs here and if they leave, they lose their 127 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 1: job here and they have no job abroad. And let's 128 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 1: say you're married to a US then your US citizen 129 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 1: spouse has to leave to or you're separated from your 130 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 1: US citizen spouse. 131 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 3: So there's a lot of that. 132 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 1: But then the second and more cynical thing is, once 133 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 1: you're outside of the country, you have zero rights of 134 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 1: any kind to make any challenges in any court whatever. 135 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:25,000 Speaker 1: So if the Trump administration wants to do a travel 136 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 1: ban or any other kind of ban, then you're never 137 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 1: coming back in the country. 138 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:31,520 Speaker 3: And joke is on you in that. 139 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 1: Situation, whereas you're not subject to that ban if you're 140 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:36,680 Speaker 1: inside of the United States. 141 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 2: Has that, let's call it a clarification. Has that done 142 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 2: anything to alleviate the concerns of green cord applicants. 143 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 1: People are very nervous about this because the memo is 144 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 1: still saying and even this press guidance from Friday is saying, look, 145 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 1: we're just telling our adjudicators on a case by case 146 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:58,480 Speaker 1: basis to look at their discretionary authority and really take 147 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 1: it seriously. And everyone says, well, jeez, you know, is 148 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 1: not going to be decided negatively in my particular case. 149 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 1: And if it is, then just suddenly one day you're 150 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:09,960 Speaker 1: here illegally. The next day you get that decision, you're 151 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:12,760 Speaker 1: here illegally and you have to leave immediately. So it's 152 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 1: quite unsettling. If you have a job, if you have 153 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 1: a house, if you have a spouse, children, whatever else. 154 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 3: Do you have. 155 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:22,200 Speaker 1: It's not so great to suddenly be told you have 156 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:25,120 Speaker 1: twenty four hours to leave the country, or even the 157 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 1: US Citizenship and Immigration Services will tell you come in, 158 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 1: get the decision, and did they place you in detention, 159 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 1: which they could theoretically do. 160 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 2: I don't know if I'm reading you wrong, but are 161 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:37,200 Speaker 2: they tougher on people who overstay their visas that on 162 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:39,280 Speaker 2: people who come here illegally or is people who are 163 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 2: come here illegally or not. 164 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 1: As way, if you entered the illegally, you can't even 165 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:45,840 Speaker 1: get a green card through this process called adjustment of status. 166 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 1: So that's one of the big misconceptions of immigration laws. 167 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:51,840 Speaker 1: People think anybody can just marry a US citizen and 168 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 1: fix their status. That's absolutely not true. You had to 169 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 1: have entered here legally in the first place. That's why 170 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 1: at the end of the Biden administration they were doing 171 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:05,320 Speaker 1: a process where they were going to try to take 172 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:07,920 Speaker 1: people who were married to US citizens or who had 173 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:11,080 Speaker 1: US citizen children above the age of twenty one and 174 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 1: allow them to get a parole that would give them 175 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 1: a legal entry into the United States such that they 176 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 1: could apply for adjustment of status. That was happening right 177 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 1: at the end of the Bid administration. But obviously that 178 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 1: reelection did not occur, and so that got canceled immediately 179 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:28,200 Speaker 1: when President Trump took. 180 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:29,880 Speaker 3: Over, so it never happened. 181 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 1: But if there were a democratic administration, I'd imagine that 182 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 1: that might come back in. But the point is it's 183 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:39,839 Speaker 1: never been available to people who've crossed illegally, but it's 184 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 1: always been available to people who've overstayed if they are 185 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 1: either parents to US citizen children over twenty one, or 186 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 1: if they are spouses of a US citizen. But I 187 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:54,679 Speaker 1: think the Trump administration is going to quote unquote carefully 188 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:57,600 Speaker 1: use its discretion and a lot of these cases are 189 00:09:57,600 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 1: probably going to be denied in the near. 190 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 2: Few do not green cards. 191 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:04,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, they'll be denied green cards, but then they'll have 192 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 1: no status and they could easily be detained at that 193 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:09,560 Speaker 1: point in place them to removal proceedings. 194 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:13,800 Speaker 2: So let's turn to Homeland Security Secretary Mark Wayne Mullen 195 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:18,679 Speaker 2: has threatened to halt or to delay immigration and customs 196 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:24,679 Speaker 2: processing at airports in sanctuary cities. He's trying to leverage this. 197 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 2: But do you think all of a sudden, these sanctuary 198 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 2: cities are going to say, we're not going to be 199 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:29,880 Speaker 2: sanctuary cities anymore. 200 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:32,960 Speaker 1: So let's talk about how a lot of these things work. 201 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:36,520 Speaker 1: Because the airports in a lot of these cities that 202 00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:39,080 Speaker 1: are quote unquote sanctuary cities. And again what we mean 203 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 1: by sanctuary cities is that they do not cooperate with 204 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 1: ICE requests to let them into the jails or to 205 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 1: report people who are arrested to ICE. So that's what's 206 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:52,600 Speaker 1: called the sanctuary city. A lot of these airports are 207 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:57,720 Speaker 1: run by independent airport authorities that are not necessarily feeding 208 00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 1: revenue into the city local government that is a sanctuary city. 209 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:06,560 Speaker 1: These airport authorities are sort of self operating entities that 210 00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:09,560 Speaker 1: are funding themselves, and yes they have some affiliation with 211 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:12,680 Speaker 1: the state and the locals, but a lot of times 212 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:16,200 Speaker 1: they are regional authorities, et cetera. So it's sort of 213 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 1: like saying, you know, if you don't eat your vegetables, 214 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:21,559 Speaker 1: I'm going to hit your brother in the face or something, 215 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:27,280 Speaker 1: and it's a tangential strike. And the other issue is this, 216 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 1: So what's going on. So when people fly into an 217 00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 1: airport from abroad, they have to get processed by someone 218 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:37,200 Speaker 1: at US Customs and Border Protection. If they're a US 219 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:39,160 Speaker 1: it is in. They have a special line that just 220 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 1: says are you a US it is in, and if 221 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 1: you are, you get in unless you have some drugs 222 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:46,560 Speaker 1: or other contraband. And if you are not a us 223 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:48,600 Speaker 1: czen then you have to prove that you can be 224 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 1: admitted back into the United States, and so that they 225 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 1: have separate lines for those individuals. And what Secretary Mullen 226 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:58,360 Speaker 1: is saying is, look, we're going to take those CBP 227 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:01,960 Speaker 1: employees and move them out of the airports of the 228 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:05,840 Speaker 1: sanctuary cities and presumably move them to other airports like 229 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:10,280 Speaker 1: Miami or Houston or Dallas or Las Vegas or Orlando that 230 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:13,839 Speaker 1: are not sanctuary cities. But here's the problem. There are 231 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:16,720 Speaker 1: no more gates for any of those planes to come in. 232 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:19,800 Speaker 1: It's fine if you have a thousand more CBP agents 233 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:23,199 Speaker 1: in those airports, but for a plane to actually land, 234 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:26,439 Speaker 1: it's gotta have runway space, it's gotta have a gate, 235 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:29,120 Speaker 1: it's got to have all of those things. And every 236 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:32,720 Speaker 1: airport in America is at capacity. There's no more room 237 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:35,840 Speaker 1: for planes to land at any of these airports in 238 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:38,640 Speaker 1: terms of the timing, or in terms of the gates, 239 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 1: or in terms. 240 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 3: Of anything else. 241 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 1: And so from that component, what you're really doing is 242 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 1: cutting air travel by fifty percent. And what's really a 243 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:50,920 Speaker 1: problem there is, if you're cutting air travel by fifty percent, 244 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 1: that's one of our largest exports is foreign nationals coming 245 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 1: in here and giving us free. 246 00:12:56,280 --> 00:12:58,920 Speaker 3: Money, paying hotels, paying food, et cetera. 247 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:02,360 Speaker 1: There's no trade involved. We're not sending any money over there. 248 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 1: They're just coming in and giving us money. So it's 249 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:09,080 Speaker 1: the number one foreign investment, you know, export that we have, 250 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:13,240 Speaker 1: and we would be cutting it by fifty percent by 251 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 1: moving our CBP agents out of those airports. And then 252 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:20,240 Speaker 1: the final point to say here is that a very 253 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 1: small percentage of people who fly into these airports actually 254 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:28,080 Speaker 1: is staying in a sanctuary city. They're either going to 255 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:30,679 Speaker 1: some other city that's a suburb or an ex serb, 256 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:35,160 Speaker 1: or they're connecting to another airport in another state. And 257 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:38,080 Speaker 1: so again, like I said, it's really like you know, 258 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:41,400 Speaker 1: punishing your brother because you didn't eat vegetables. It really 259 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:44,600 Speaker 1: is not the best way of going at it. There's 260 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 1: many other ways that the Secretary of Homeland Security could 261 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:52,080 Speaker 1: go after these sanctuary cities. I won't suggest them here 262 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:55,600 Speaker 1: on the podcast, but there are If they're interested, they 263 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:59,280 Speaker 1: can contact me, but you know this is not the 264 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 1: correct way to do it in my opinion. 265 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:04,560 Speaker 2: Coming up next, I'll continue this conversation with immigration law 266 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:08,680 Speaker 2: attorney Leon Fresco. An ice officer has been arrested in 267 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 2: Texas for the shooting of a Venezuelan man during the 268 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 2: Trump administration's Minnesota crackdown. Will the case actually get to trial? 269 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 2: I've been talking to immigration law attorney Leon Fresco of 270 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:26,359 Speaker 2: Holland and Knight about Homeland Security Secretary Mark Wayne Mullens 271 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 2: threats to halt immigration and customs processing at airports and 272 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 2: sanctuary cities. The target of the threat right now appears 273 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:40,960 Speaker 2: to be Newark Airport because of the high profile protests 274 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:46,600 Speaker 2: outside Delaney Hall and Immigrant Detention Center in Newark, and 275 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 2: a coalition of groups representing airports, airlines, hotels and other 276 00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 2: businesses are calling on DHS not to follow through on 277 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:55,240 Speaker 2: the threat. 278 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:58,120 Speaker 1: It would be very difficult, especially now during the World 279 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:01,600 Speaker 1: Cup where the final is being played in the Meadowlands, 280 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:04,440 Speaker 1: which is in New Jersey. The closest airport Todare is 281 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:07,840 Speaker 1: in Newark. Did they were especially to cut it off? Now? 282 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 1: I think that that would be quite a difficult incident 283 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:11,920 Speaker 1: for the government. 284 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:14,640 Speaker 3: On top of the fact that you have this issue. 285 00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:17,720 Speaker 1: We have the South African national soccer team unable to 286 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 1: get visas to come. 287 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:19,960 Speaker 3: Into the United States. 288 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 1: There's too many blips in terms of you try to 289 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:28,960 Speaker 1: have this very stringent policy where you say, hey, we're 290 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:33,280 Speaker 1: gonna be tough, and then you unintentionally create a ton 291 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:38,480 Speaker 1: of collateral damage that's creating serious problems for entities that 292 00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 1: the United States doesn't want. The United States doesn't want 293 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 1: to reduce its travel exports by half, I don't think 294 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:48,800 Speaker 1: because a lot of people would lose jobs and people 295 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:50,840 Speaker 1: would say, hey, why did I lose my job, and 296 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:53,560 Speaker 1: they would you know, it would eventually flow to that reason. 297 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:57,120 Speaker 1: Or they don't want to have stories that you tried 298 00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:59,360 Speaker 1: to host a World Cup and teams couldn't come in 299 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 1: because they couldn't get visas. But it becomes a reflection 300 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 1: of you'd start going on autopilot with a lot of 301 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 1: these policies that are meant to just say nobody gets 302 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:13,920 Speaker 1: to come in. America is closed, and you end. 303 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 3: Up doing damage that you didn't intend to do. 304 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 1: Because if you said America's closed, now it's close to people. 305 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:20,800 Speaker 3: You didn't even want it. 306 00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:24,880 Speaker 2: To be closed to for DHS. The attention is on 307 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 2: Newark and off Minnesota. But Minneapolis prosecutors are still going 308 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 2: forward with investigations and things, and they charged an ice 309 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:38,240 Speaker 2: officer with assault and falsely reporting a crime. As a 310 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:41,520 Speaker 2: second federal agent to be charged over their conduct during 311 00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 2: that Minnesota crackdown. He's a federal agent, can Minnesota charge him? 312 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:49,160 Speaker 3: Well, that's going to be the argument that's made. 313 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:51,800 Speaker 1: And it's the same argument we've been seeing in California, 314 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 1: where the Ninth Circuit held that you cannot regulate what 315 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 1: a federal agent does when a federal agent is perform 316 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:04,280 Speaker 1: their duties. Now, the different tier is one thing is 317 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 1: external regulation, which is to say, here's a set of 318 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:11,959 Speaker 1: policies you can't wear masks, or you can't do this, 319 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:14,679 Speaker 1: or you can't do that. Those sets of policies in 320 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 1: advance are going to be very hard. So like the 321 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:19,160 Speaker 1: New York law that just got passed that says they 322 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:22,800 Speaker 1: can't wear masks, or the California law that just got 323 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:25,840 Speaker 1: stricken down, those are going to be very hard to survive. 324 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:28,480 Speaker 1: Most likely those are going to be stricken under the 325 00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:32,679 Speaker 1: supremacy Clause, which says or which has been interpreted to 326 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 1: say that when a federal officer is enforcing federal law, 327 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:39,840 Speaker 1: they benefit from the supremacy clause and you can't regulate 328 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:42,359 Speaker 1: how they do it. Now, that's different than if a 329 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:46,919 Speaker 1: federal officer breaks the law acting outside of the scope 330 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 1: of their employment. They can be prosecuted in that situation. 331 00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:51,480 Speaker 3: So if an. 332 00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:56,959 Speaker 1: Individual federal officer says, you know, oh, yes, this person 333 00:17:57,080 --> 00:17:59,680 Speaker 1: had a gun and was shooting at me, and really 334 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:02,879 Speaker 1: there were there's no such thing, and the person just 335 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:06,560 Speaker 1: started on a shooting rampage at a mall, that person 336 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:09,240 Speaker 1: can be prosecuted under state law. They were not acting 337 00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:11,719 Speaker 1: in the scope of their employment. There was no reason 338 00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:15,200 Speaker 1: that their employment mandated them to shoot up them all, 339 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 1: and so you could prosecute them for that. And so 340 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:21,480 Speaker 1: that's going to be the question in a prosecution here 341 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:25,040 Speaker 1: is going to be worthy individuals acting within the lawful 342 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:27,960 Speaker 1: scope of their employment or were they so far outside 343 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:30,960 Speaker 1: the bounds of what their employment permits that they can 344 00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:31,920 Speaker 1: be prosecuted. 345 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:36,439 Speaker 2: And Texas appears to have cooperated in this arrest. 346 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:40,680 Speaker 1: If another state's willing to cooperate with you, you can enforce 347 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:43,600 Speaker 1: the arrest warrant in another state, and the other state 348 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 1: can then you know, implement the arrest and then you 349 00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:49,359 Speaker 1: have to have proceedings to even though it's the same 350 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:53,200 Speaker 1: country extra nite the person back to Minnesota and try 351 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:55,800 Speaker 1: to have the trial of that individual. So that can 352 00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 1: be done, you'll probably want to remove it to federal 353 00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:02,560 Speaker 1: court to immediately file a motion to quash that state proceeding, 354 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:05,600 Speaker 1: and the federal court will have to decide whether the 355 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 1: person was acting inside or outside of the scope of 356 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:08,960 Speaker 1: their employment. 357 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:13,439 Speaker 2: Yeah, Ice called the Hennepin County attorney's action unlawful and 358 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:15,400 Speaker 2: nothing more than a political stunt. 359 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:19,440 Speaker 1: I mean that's going to be proven by this proceeding 360 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 1: that will most certainly be removed the federal court, where 361 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:24,119 Speaker 1: the ICE officer. 362 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:26,800 Speaker 3: Will challenge the legality of their. 363 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:30,000 Speaker 1: Indictment and the Headepen County Attorney's going to have to 364 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 1: prove that the person was acting so far outside of 365 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:36,240 Speaker 1: the scope and bounds of their employment. 366 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:38,680 Speaker 3: That they can be prosecuted. And we will find out 367 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:39,200 Speaker 3: soon enough. 368 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:42,879 Speaker 1: It's hard with these very fact intentive cases to predict 369 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 1: what will happen, but it will certainly be a federal 370 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:48,639 Speaker 1: court that gets to decide this not a state court, 371 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:50,920 Speaker 1: so at least from the perspective of the ICE agent, 372 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:54,320 Speaker 1: they can say it's somebody who's not part of the 373 00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:56,280 Speaker 1: state machinery who's going to decide this. 374 00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm still surprised. I think stunt is a better word. 375 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:04,679 Speaker 2: That nothing has been done about the shootings, the killings 376 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:09,600 Speaker 2: of Alex Pretty and Renee Good. I mean, the federal 377 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 2: government is not doing anything there. 378 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:15,680 Speaker 1: Well, I think they said there were investigations. I think 379 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 1: it's going to be up to the Congress to push 380 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:21,880 Speaker 1: for a report on those investigations. And if those reports 381 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 1: say that unlawful conduct was done, I mean, nothing is 382 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:29,399 Speaker 1: outside of the statute of limitations yet, so presumably a 383 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:34,040 Speaker 1: US attorney in Minnesota could prosecute there, or even if 384 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:37,520 Speaker 1: the Trump administration ends, the five year statute of limitations 385 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:41,200 Speaker 1: would not have expired and a subsequent US attorney could 386 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:44,119 Speaker 1: decide to prosecute there. So I don't think this story 387 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:45,560 Speaker 1: is over one way or the other. 388 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:45,840 Speaker 3: Year. 389 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:51,840 Speaker 2: So you mentioned New York and Governor Hockel signed this legislation, 390 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:56,400 Speaker 2: and we've talked before about massed US ICE agents and 391 00:20:56,440 --> 00:21:00,320 Speaker 2: how it's already been ruled in California that the state 392 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:03,240 Speaker 2: can interfere with that. So what about the rest of 393 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:07,879 Speaker 2: this The new law also bans local law enforcement agencies 394 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:13,680 Speaker 2: from entering into agreements that police officers be deputized as 395 00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:16,640 Speaker 2: immigration agents. I didn't realize across the country how many 396 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:20,119 Speaker 2: officers have been deputized. Almost sixteen thousand. 397 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:23,879 Speaker 1: Right, There's a statue called INA Section two eighty seven G, 398 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:29,000 Speaker 1: which allows ICE, the Secretary of Homeland Security to deputize 399 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:32,440 Speaker 1: state and local officers to perform ICE functions. So what 400 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:35,160 Speaker 1: that means is, let's say if you were in one 401 00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:37,960 Speaker 1: of these two eighty seven G communities and the officers 402 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:41,480 Speaker 1: got training and had an agreement, when they pulled someone 403 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:44,040 Speaker 1: over on the side of the road, they could actually 404 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:47,040 Speaker 1: do an ICE check to determine if this person was 405 00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:50,760 Speaker 1: undocumented or not, and could actually detain the person for 406 00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:53,919 Speaker 1: the amount of time necessary to transfer them over to ICE. 407 00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 3: And so what the State of New. 408 00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 1: York is saying is we want to ban our localities 409 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:04,119 Speaker 1: from entering into these two eighty seven G agreements with 410 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:07,360 Speaker 1: the federal government. What's interesting is there was some very 411 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:10,960 Speaker 1: interesting fifth circuit law during the first Trump administer engine 412 00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:13,359 Speaker 1: or the state of Texas did the opposite. They said, 413 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:17,240 Speaker 1: we want to ban our localities from being sanctuary cities, 414 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:20,520 Speaker 1: and the cities challenge that saying you can't do that. 415 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:23,119 Speaker 1: We have a right to have our own interpretation of 416 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:25,960 Speaker 1: federal law. And the Fifth Circuit said, no, the states 417 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:29,560 Speaker 1: have supremacy over the cities, and if the states want 418 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 1: the cities to be non sanctuary cities, that's their right. 419 00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:36,639 Speaker 1: They have supremacy over the cities. So New York is 420 00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:40,359 Speaker 1: taking that same mentality and flipping it and saying rather 421 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:43,840 Speaker 1: than saying that the cities can't be sanctuary cities, it's. 422 00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:46,480 Speaker 3: Saying no, no, no, the opposite. You can't be two eighty 423 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:49,479 Speaker 3: seven G cities. You can't be the kind of cities 424 00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 3: that report people dies. 425 00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:55,120 Speaker 1: And so I assume if the cities tried to challenge 426 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:57,960 Speaker 1: that in the second circuit, the second Circuit would say 427 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:00,920 Speaker 1: the same thing, would say that the state supremacy over 428 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:03,879 Speaker 1: the cities and that the state can indeed preclude the 429 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:07,000 Speaker 1: cities from being ina to eighty seven G cities. 430 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 2: So Governor Hokeel has tried to make this distinction between 431 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:17,679 Speaker 2: cooperating with federal authorities on serious crimes but not participating 432 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:21,879 Speaker 2: in broader immigration enforcement is drawing that kind of line 433 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:22,800 Speaker 2: even possible. 434 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:26,200 Speaker 1: I think the problem is is in all of the 435 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:30,080 Speaker 1: intermediary stuff. So here's what everybody means, and here's why 436 00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:32,600 Speaker 1: everything is lost in the translator. And here's where I 437 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:35,399 Speaker 1: have a lot of sympathy for the Trump administration, and 438 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:38,239 Speaker 1: even there have been democratic administrations that have said, hey, 439 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:39,560 Speaker 1: you need to start cooperating. 440 00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:42,120 Speaker 3: Here's the issue. In a state like New York. 441 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:46,840 Speaker 1: By the time someone is convicted of a serious crime, 442 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:51,120 Speaker 1: they've probably been arrested many times before then, they've probably 443 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:54,200 Speaker 1: been given many chances, they've probably. 444 00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:56,480 Speaker 3: Been let out, and so a lot of damage has 445 00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:57,040 Speaker 3: been done. 446 00:23:57,080 --> 00:23:59,919 Speaker 1: It's very rare that the first time out of the box, 447 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:03,359 Speaker 1: someone commits a serious enough crime that they get convicted 448 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:07,000 Speaker 1: and now they're reported to ICE. So yes, in that situation, 449 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:11,320 Speaker 1: the state of New York cooperates with ICE and says, 450 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:14,639 Speaker 1: someone who's been finally convicted of a crime that's so 451 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:17,959 Speaker 1: serious and so repetitive that they finally get put in 452 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:21,359 Speaker 1: jail as a felon does get reported to ICE after 453 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 1: their jail term is done. So yes, that's true. But 454 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:27,440 Speaker 1: as I'm sure a lot of your listeners know, there's 455 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:29,800 Speaker 1: a lot of people who go through the system many times, 456 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:32,840 Speaker 1: who are arrested, who are let out on bail, who 457 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:35,560 Speaker 1: do a lot of very serious crimes and bad things, 458 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:38,840 Speaker 1: and those people never get reported to ICE, and so 459 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:41,360 Speaker 1: in the meantime, they're doing a lot of damage, they're 460 00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:43,679 Speaker 1: committing a lot of crime, they're harming a lot of people. 461 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:47,920 Speaker 1: And what these Secretary of Homeland securities say is, you've 462 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 1: got to report those people to us make our lives 463 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:53,280 Speaker 1: easier so that we don't have to go get random 464 00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:57,080 Speaker 1: grandmothers and farmers and other people like that. If you 465 00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:00,760 Speaker 1: just would report these people that got arrested and got 466 00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 1: let out on bail and didn't get anything and got 467 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:07,119 Speaker 1: a diversion or their fifth chance, their case was dismissed 468 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:10,199 Speaker 1: or whatever, we could actually deport these people who are 469 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:15,080 Speaker 1: actually committing crimes in their communities. The problem is there's 470 00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:17,960 Speaker 1: still a mentality that exists from the eighties and the 471 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:22,560 Speaker 1: nineties that people get arrested in large part only because 472 00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:25,640 Speaker 1: of their race and not because of any actual crimes 473 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:28,919 Speaker 1: they're committing. And so the fear was, well, if we 474 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:33,199 Speaker 1: report arrested, non convicted people to ICE, there's going to 475 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:36,880 Speaker 1: be a lot of unjust deportations because these people were 476 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:41,119 Speaker 1: unlawfully arrested because of their race or whatever else. They 477 00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:44,760 Speaker 1: didn't actually commit a crime. But this is really a 478 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:48,080 Speaker 1: matter of, look, do you trust your local police department 479 00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:52,600 Speaker 1: or not, because if you do, then you would say 480 00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:56,359 Speaker 1: that that's probably happening less hopefully in twenty twenty six 481 00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:58,920 Speaker 1: than it was in the eighties and the nineties and 482 00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 1: in the first part of this century, such that now 483 00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:06,280 Speaker 1: when you're arresting people, you're probably arresting them many, many 484 00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 1: times before they actually get any kind of serious punishment, 485 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:13,239 Speaker 1: and so maybe that does need to be revisited. So 486 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:16,159 Speaker 1: those people are reported to ICE before they're fifth or 487 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 1: sixth or seventh the rest and so that's where everything 488 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:22,720 Speaker 1: is getting lost in the translation. And I think that's 489 00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:26,200 Speaker 1: where there needs to be a better faith conversation between 490 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,199 Speaker 1: these cities and these states and the Secretary of Homeland 491 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:32,919 Speaker 1: Security to try to get at this problem that a 492 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:35,720 Speaker 1: lot of local governments are not doing anything with the 493 00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:38,760 Speaker 1: people they're arresting, and so hence they're committing a lot 494 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:42,680 Speaker 1: of crime, but they otherwise could be placed into deportation proceedings. 495 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:46,920 Speaker 2: Conversations might actually help here. Thanks So much Leon. That's 496 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:49,960 Speaker 2: Leon Fresco of Holland and Knight. And that's it for 497 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:52,639 Speaker 2: this edition of The Bloomberg Law Show. Remember you can 498 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:55,879 Speaker 2: always get the latest legal news on our Bloomberg Law Podcast. 499 00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:59,200 Speaker 2: You can find them on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and at 500 00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:04,399 Speaker 2: www dot bloomberg dot com slash podcast Slash Law, And 501 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:07,520 Speaker 2: remember to tune into The Bloomberg Law Show every weeknight 502 00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:11,080 Speaker 2: at ten pm Wall Street Time. I'm June Grosso and 503 00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:12,600 Speaker 2: you're listening to Bloomberg