Speaker 1: Hey, what's up everybody.
Speaker 2: I'm Jamel Hill and welcome to politics and I heard
Speaker 2: podcasts and unbothered production.
Speaker 1: Time to get spolitical.
Speaker 2: It's Black History Month, and since there seems to be
Speaker 2: a concerted effort to just erase the presence of black folks,
Speaker 2: not just in February, but all year long, it's important
Speaker 2: to share those stories they are determined to bury. So
Speaker 2: for the rest of this month, I want to share
Speaker 2: some of these stories here on Politics, especially those that
Speaker 2: aren't known as much. And on this episode, I want
Speaker 2: to share the story of track and field sensation Rose Robinson,
Speaker 2: who carries a very important distinction in sports history. Robinson
Speaker 2: is believed to be the first black athlete who refused
Speaker 2: to stand for the national anthem to protest against racial injustice,
Speaker 2: which she did during the opening ceremonies of the nineteen
Speaker 2: fifty nine Pan American Games. Now, before I get into
Speaker 2: what compelled Robinson to take a stand, and then, let
Speaker 2: me explain some of her backstory, because then you will
Speaker 2: understand why her decision to stay seated during the national
Speaker 2: anthem was completely on brand. Rose Robinson was born in
Speaker 2: nineteen twenty five.
Speaker 1: She was a.
Speaker 2: Gifted track athlete, and her specialty was high jumped. In
Speaker 2: her twenties, Robinson became deeply involved in the movement. She
Speaker 2: led a small chapter of the Congress of Racial Equality
Speaker 2: organization while she worked as a social worker at a
Speaker 2: Cleveland community center. Now, Robinson organized and led a protest
Speaker 2: against a segregated skating rate. Not only did she lead
Speaker 2: this skate in, but she also defied the segregation rules
Speaker 2: and skated at the rink anyway. The white patrons were
Speaker 2: so angry at Robinson they tried to trip her as
Speaker 2: she skated, and unfortunately they were successful. Robinson suffered a
Speaker 2: broken arm. Now, while all of this was going on,
Speaker 2: Robinson still continued to show her prowess in track and field.
Speaker 2: When she returned to Chicago in the late nineteen fifties,
Speaker 2: she was an accomplished high jumper, and in nineteen fifty
Speaker 2: eight she won high jump at the National AAU Championship,
Speaker 2: earning a spot on the US women's track and field team,
Speaker 2: which was mostly black. Now, shortly after receiving that honor,
Speaker 2: Rose was invited to compete in Russia at a State
Speaker 2: Department track event. Now, this was during the height of
Speaker 2: the Cold War and the purpose of the event was
Speaker 2: to use black athletes to promote America's foreign policy agenda overseas.
Speaker 1: Now the United.
Speaker 2: States government they often used the presence of black athletes
Speaker 2: and entertainers to shield themselves from criticism for terrorizing black
Speaker 2: folks under Jim Crow on their own soil. Now, as
Speaker 2: you can see, the recipe for black obedience hasn't changed,
Speaker 2: has it. But Rose Robinson wasn't having it. She told
Speaker 2: Jet magazine. I don't want anyone to think my athletics
Speaker 2: have political connotations. In other words, I don't want to
Speaker 2: be used as a political pawn.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 2: As you might imagine, that did not sit well with
Speaker 2: Track officials nor the US government. A year later, after
Speaker 2: standing ten toes down about not going to Russia, she
Speaker 2: was competing in the Panamas in Chicago, and when the
Speaker 2: national anthem played during the opening ceremonies, Robinson stayed seated
Speaker 2: as if to say, oh nah, y'all got it. As
Speaker 2: you might imagine, Robinson was vilified. Six months after she
Speaker 2: sat during the anthem to protest the treatment of her people.
Speaker 2: The United States government arrested her for tax evasion because
Speaker 2: she owed three hundred and eighty six dollars Robinson told
Speaker 2: Jet magazine she didn't.
Speaker 1: Pay taxes from nineteen fifty four to nineteen.
Speaker 2: Fifty eight because, as she put it, I know a
Speaker 2: large part of it goes to armaments. The US government
Speaker 2: is very active in Adam Bomb's and fallout, which is
Speaker 2: destructive rather than constructive. If I pay income tax, I
Speaker 2: am participating in that destruction.
Speaker 3: Ooop.
Speaker 1: Robinson was sentenced to a year and a day in jail.
Speaker 2: The day she was sentenced, authorities had to carry her
Speaker 2: out of the courtroom because she refused to walk. She
Speaker 2: literally made them carry her to jail. But Robinson wasn't
Speaker 2: done expressing her descent. While in jail, Robinson went on
Speaker 2: a hunger strike that generated a ton of media attention,
Speaker 2: hundreds of letters of support, and even protesters who demonstrated
Speaker 2: outside the courthouse. Robinson was so fril from the hunger
Speaker 2: strike that she was force fed intraveniously the resistance, though
Speaker 2: it paid off. After three months of being on a
Speaker 2: hunger strike, she was released. Now do y'all think she
Speaker 2: paid that three hundred and eighty six dollars. Here's a hint,
Speaker 2: hell naw. Her stin in prison essentially ended her athletic career. Physically,
Speaker 2: she was unable to compete, and at that point she
Speaker 2: had burned so many bridges in the sports world. After
Speaker 2: being released, Robinson continued, though, to resist and protest while
Speaker 2: also creating change. Robinson linked up with a group called
Speaker 2: the Peacemakers. Her and two other organizers were traveling to
Speaker 2: Maryland and attempted to eat at a segregated restaurant. Robinson
Speaker 2: and her friends refused to leave. They were then arrested,
Speaker 2: but they refused to appear in court, and they refused
Speaker 2: to eat while in jail. They eventually wore the authorities
Speaker 2: down and were given fifty dollar finds and released. Y'all
Speaker 2: know she didn't pay that fifty dollars five right, but
Speaker 2: their defiance sparked the local movement to end segregation and
Speaker 2: restaurants in Maryland and now. As you can see from
Speaker 2: Robinson's life, track and field was something she did and
Speaker 2: something she excelled at, but it did not define who
Speaker 2: she was. She used her platform as a tool, and
Speaker 2: even when she no longer had track and Field to amplify.
Speaker 1: Her message, she never abandoned what was important.
Speaker 2: Robinson died in nineteen seventy six at just fifty two
Speaker 2: years old. I'm hoping she never paid the FEDS a
Speaker 2: dime the rest of her life. I'm Jamelle Hill and
Speaker 2: I approved this message. Now I'm very excited about today's episode.
Speaker 2: My guest today has a very unique and organic brand
Speaker 2: in the social media space. He is known as the
Speaker 2: meme King, the King of NBA Twitter, but I think
Speaker 2: of him as someone who is proof that the best
Speaker 2: way to build a great brand is to try to
Speaker 2: not build the brand, just be authentic. He's got a
Speaker 2: huge social media following, and his well timed memes have
Speaker 2: been applauded by the likes of Lebron James and Keegan,
Speaker 2: Michael Key and legions of NBA fans. Currently, he is
Speaker 2: host of Gil's Arena, which stars Gilbert Arenas and Rashad
Speaker 2: McCants and a rotating group of NBA and WNBA players
Speaker 2: of the Cheryl Swoops, Kenyon Martin, Brandon Jennings, Lexi Brown,
Speaker 2: and Nick Young. But despite all of his success, my
Speaker 2: guess is just a regular down earth dude.
Speaker 1: Coming up next on his politics Josiah Johnson.
Speaker 2: All right, Josiah, I want to start this podcast by
Speaker 2: asking you a question. I ask every guest who appears
Speaker 2: on politics and that is name an athlete or a
Speaker 2: moment that made.
Speaker 3: You love sports athlete or moment made me love sports. Ooh,
Speaker 3: I'm gonna go. It's a good question. There's so many
Speaker 3: kind of think moment athlete. I'm gonna go. I'm gonna
Speaker 3: go off off the beaten path a little bit. I'm
Speaker 3: gonna go ed Obannon, UCLA. So I was a ball
Speaker 3: boy ULA for the ninety four to ninety five year,
Speaker 3: last time you say basketball, the national championship. A lot
Speaker 3: of time. My older brother Chris was on the team,
Speaker 3: so I got to spend a lot of time with
Speaker 3: the crew, you know, pregame, rebound and form working with him.
Speaker 3: So the Seattle band in that season, and a lot
Speaker 3: of people know ed from his NCAA lawsuit and all
Speaker 3: the things he's done in the aftermath for player likeness
Speaker 3: and nil and all the stuff that you see now.
Speaker 3: But to see ed that last year, no history, everything
Speaker 3: he had been through him leading that team to a
Speaker 3: national championship and ultimately sacrificing the rest of his career.
Speaker 3: He had bad knees, so he was counting in his
Speaker 3: knee drain in that year doing a bunch of stuff,
Speaker 3: but just to see him as a leader and what
Speaker 3: he was able to do with that squad me as
Speaker 3: like a young, impressionable kid, almost almost a teenager. So
Speaker 3: I say that moment in my my, you know, kind
Speaker 3: of teen life and before that, younger than that, probably
Speaker 3: just Magic Johnson. Honestly growing up in Los Angeles, seeing
Speaker 3: Magic this larger than life figure but always approachable, just
Speaker 3: a really great dude, and everything he had dealt with
Speaker 3: at that time, you know, nineteen ninety one. I think
Speaker 3: everybody remembers the announcement, kind of all the uncertainty around,
Speaker 3: you know, his health status, his future and what he
Speaker 3: was going to be. But to see Magic still here,
Speaker 3: healthier than the most of most of us, you know,
Speaker 3: just to see that it's another dude. But showtime Lakers air.
Speaker 3: My dad played for the Clippers, so we kind of
Speaker 3: were in the shadow of the Lakers. I was forced
Speaker 3: to be a Clippers fan growing up.
Speaker 1: Forced.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I didn't know any better. But slowly, but surely,
Speaker 3: as a kid, you start to realize, like, wait a minute,
Speaker 3: like sports arena is always empty, ain't nothing really going on?
Speaker 3: And you got all this other stuff going on. I
Speaker 3: grew up near Englewood. So everything that the Lakers impact
Speaker 3: that they had, So I say magic in my early
Speaker 3: life and uh ed O'Bannon for kind of my preteens
Speaker 3: in or my teenage.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that team, because I'm of a certain age, I
Speaker 2: remember them vividly. Tias Adney trying to think of the guard,
Speaker 2: the freshman, light skinned cat, Toby Baana, Toby Bailey. Obviously
Speaker 2: the old Bannon is like that was a really really
Speaker 2: special team, you know, as somebody who grew up here
Speaker 2: in LA And for those who don't know, your father's
Speaker 2: Marcus Johnson what five time NBA Also, yeah, you know
Speaker 2: I know.
Speaker 1: Him beyond just raiment from White me and cajup.
Speaker 3: But you're a professional, so already know you did your to.
Speaker 1: Do a little digging.
Speaker 2: But I mean I knew who he was, you know,
Speaker 2: before then, and he is legitimately considered one of the
Speaker 2: best hoopers to ever come out of this area. You know,
Speaker 2: you played ball yourself, you went to UCLA, you came up.
Speaker 1: You had your own hoops journey.
Speaker 2: Your father being such a big star around here, how
Speaker 2: did his accomplishments kind of impact how your basketball career
Speaker 2: was seen?
Speaker 3: So I've got a bunch of brothers, and uh, you know,
Speaker 3: we all tell the story for a long long time
Speaker 3: in my life. People don't know me as Josiah. It
Speaker 3: was either little Marcus, you know, or little Chris, who
Speaker 3: was my older brother. They both played at Crenshall High
Speaker 3: School one city championships. I want to say with the
Speaker 3: first father and son in LA to be able to
Speaker 3: do that, so you kind of see it. But I
Speaker 3: was super young for the beginning of his career. He
Speaker 3: had a tragic neck injury I believe nineteen eighty five
Speaker 3: eighty six. I was probably like three or four years old.
Speaker 3: Remember the game Noise playing against the Dallas Maths, and
Speaker 3: I remember he just didn't come home that night, and
Speaker 3: we were at the game. Everybody's kind of down, Distras said.
Speaker 3: And then for the next couple of years neck brace.
Speaker 3: He ended up, you know, messing up a lot of
Speaker 3: stuff in his vertebrae, was almost paralyzed, ended up battling
Speaker 3: through that. So the first real experience that I got
Speaker 3: to see with him in his pro career. He got
Speaker 3: a brief stint in Golden State with the Warriors in
Speaker 3: the nineteen eighty nine ninety season. This was right around
Speaker 3: the TMC time. So I want to say like Tim
Speaker 3: Hardaway was the second year player there, Chris Mullin was there,
Speaker 3: Mitch Rickman was there. That was the first time I
Speaker 3: really got to be like immersed in NBA culture and world.
Speaker 3: And then in the aftermath of that White Man Can
Speaker 3: Jump I believe, came out nineteen ninety two ish, So
Speaker 3: I was a part of the whole process with him.
Speaker 3: From you know, reading lines, I got to see him.
Speaker 3: He was a method actor, so he didn't cut his
Speaker 3: hair or shaved as he was embodying this Raymond character.
Speaker 3: Got to spend a little bit of time on set.
Speaker 3: My older brother Chris actually makes cameos in it. A
Speaker 3: lot of friends and people that we know, but everywhere
Speaker 3: we would go, you would just see the way that
Speaker 3: people would treat him and touch the high regard they
Speaker 3: would have him been he's coaching my youth league teams
Speaker 3: and just you know, other coaches looking over just in awe.
Speaker 3: And every time he walked into a gym, this the
Speaker 3: whole room just stops and looks at him and all
Speaker 3: the love that he would get. So for us, there
Speaker 3: was a tremendous amount of pressure to be able to
Speaker 3: try to, you know, attain an accomplished status that he
Speaker 3: had as a professional athlete. But to his credit, he
Speaker 3: was always he just wanted us to all be our
Speaker 3: own individuals, you know, work hard and whatever you were
Speaker 3: going to do. He never really pushed us towards anything
Speaker 3: in particular. It's actually funny. He was so at UCLA.
Speaker 3: I think he majored in theater arts, so he used
Speaker 3: to do a lot of stuff in that space. So
Speaker 3: he would push us a lot towards the entertainment side.
Speaker 3: So even as a young kid, I was doing acting
Speaker 3: classes and taking summer classes, different things like that. But
Speaker 3: he would push us in that. He would come make
Speaker 3: cameos in our little you know, third grade, fourth grade
Speaker 3: student films and things like that. But he always just
Speaker 3: wanted us to be the best human beings we could be.
Speaker 3: He pushed us towards basketball. Of course, it was very
Speaker 3: tough on us to try to get us to where
Speaker 3: we wanted to be, just like his life was to
Speaker 3: get where he was. But I think ultimately he start
Speaker 3: to get older, you start to realize, I'm probably not
Speaker 3: going to get to that level. I'm not gonna you know,
Speaker 3: there's only a few that have really been able to
Speaker 3: surpass the achievements of their father. You think about like
Speaker 3: Steph Curry, people like that. I look at Bronnie now
Speaker 3: and it's like, I just imagine the pressure that Broni's
Speaker 3: dealing with. And it's no shade to Bronni, but you
Speaker 3: are never gonna be as good as your father. And
Speaker 3: I think that's what a lot of us have to
Speaker 3: come to realize. But again, to my dad's credit, he
Speaker 3: never forced us or pushed us or put that pressure
Speaker 3: on us. If anything, you try to diffuse that pressure
Speaker 3: in that tension and just wanted us to be the
Speaker 3: best that we could be at whatever we did.
Speaker 2: When it comes to content creation, you probably, I mean,
Speaker 2: you hold a lane that's so unique in sports, and
Speaker 2: you obviously you started a lot of trends in sports
Speaker 2: just based off how you approach using social media.
Speaker 1: So what title do you prefer?
Speaker 3: Mean?
Speaker 2: King, King of sports Comedy, King of NBA Twitter? Like,
Speaker 2: what's your preferred title when it comes to what you do?
Speaker 3: I'm gonna be right hat and all that shit. I
Speaker 3: just like Joe Sien, I mean, because I walk you
Speaker 3: around places and just so people know the context, my
Speaker 3: social media handles King Joe Siah fifty four right a
Speaker 3: mirror that after Lebron, who win? It's King James. Like
Speaker 3: when I was starting all this stuff, I might let
Speaker 3: me just pick a name, didn't really think much of it.
Speaker 3: But now when I walk in up, like what's up
Speaker 3: King or whatever? I can always tell people like I
Speaker 3: know who really knows me who really doesn't, Because people
Speaker 3: who really know me will call me joe So joe
Speaker 3: yess me my nickname. My mom nicknamed me Joey as
Speaker 3: a little kid. So people who really know me, family friends,
Speaker 3: like what's up Joey? Like that's how they refer to me.
Speaker 3: So anytime I walk in somewhere and people like what's up, King,
Speaker 3: I'm like, Okay, this person doesn't really know me. Like
Speaker 3: all love and respect, I appreciate it. So all that
Speaker 3: stuff is cool. Believe me, I've worked really hard and
Speaker 3: it's great to see that people recognize that and appreciate that.
Speaker 3: But I'm just a regular dude, Like you know, I
Speaker 3: just I pull up, like I try to stay out
Speaker 3: the way, I spend time, my family, do what I
Speaker 3: gotta do. But to see the success that that stuff
Speaker 3: has happened definitely appreciative of it, but I hate title,
Speaker 3: so I mean producer, executive producer or whatever. Creator so
Speaker 3: many you know hyphens, I guess hyphen in whatever they
Speaker 3: call it. Like, I just like to do the work,
Speaker 3: grind and see positive results from it.
Speaker 2: Now, in twenty nineteen, I think you had about like
Speaker 2: twenty five thousand Twitter followers, and you know, we see
Speaker 2: I don't know what's your follower account now, probably about it.
Speaker 3: I're in like the two hundred and sixty five thousand
Speaker 3: range or whatever. But every time there's like a big
Speaker 3: you know, right around November. There was a huge dip
Speaker 3: right around mid January January twenty if I think MLK
Speaker 3: Day to be exact, there were some other things going on.
Speaker 3: It was a mL I was just trying to celebrate Mlkday,
Speaker 3: my my business. Some other things were going on in
Speaker 3: the country. So I'll see those kind of shifts in it.
Speaker 3: But it's been interesting to see, Like there was a
Speaker 3: point where it was just like always on the steady incline,
Speaker 3: but around like October twenty twenty two, things kind of
Speaker 3: took a turn. I think people can do the matter.
Speaker 1: I think we could connect the dots on that one.
Speaker 2: But Nevertheless, like your tweets, they get insane impressions. I mean,
Speaker 2: were they were there maybe a couple of key moments
Speaker 2: that you think really exploded or what were those key
Speaker 2: moments that allowed you to sort of take that moniker
Speaker 2: that you don't particularly like as becoming like the mean king.
Speaker 3: Of the end. So I got to take it back.
Speaker 3: So I came up once a. UCLA wasn't that good.
Speaker 3: I'll be the first to admit it. I think good
Speaker 3: better than ninety nine percent of society. But the reality
Speaker 3: road the bench kind of knew that basketball wasn't going
Speaker 3: to be a our long term future. So started working
Speaker 3: in sports entertainment over Fox Sports, NFL Network. Worked in
Speaker 3: NFL Network for a number of years, And while I
Speaker 3: was doing that, I started a blog called Jersey Chaser,
Speaker 3: and that for me was just like a creative outlet
Speaker 3: to get my thoughts out. I think at that time
Speaker 3: there was kind of a control and dominance over sports
Speaker 3: media landscape where people weren't really respective of athletes and
Speaker 3: all the things that they put in to get to
Speaker 3: they want to be. Is it was a lot of
Speaker 3: people who had never done it before kind of just
Speaker 3: given their opinions about the world and about sports culture
Speaker 3: and things like that. So did that built that up,
Speaker 3: ended up as a result of that, getting a TV
Speaker 3: show on Comedy Central called Legend of Chamberlain Heights animated
Speaker 3: series that was based on my experience with a couple
Speaker 3: of buddies of mine riding the end of the bench
Speaker 3: at UCLA. So that I thought, all right, cool, I'm
Speaker 3: gonna be We're gonna be the next South Park. You know,
Speaker 3: We're gonna be the next Tray, and Matt like, we're
Speaker 3: gonna well, you know, I'm gonna be a billionaire all
Speaker 3: that stuff. Show ends up getting canceled after two seasons,
Speaker 3: and I'm kind of left in limbo, no man's land.
Speaker 3: I don't really have anything, you know, as people as yourself.
Speaker 3: You know, you work in this entertainment industry. When you hot,
Speaker 3: everybody wants to work with you. They love you. When
Speaker 3: you're not, the phones call stopped bringing like and you
Speaker 3: got to start figuring out life again. So I'm thankful
Speaker 3: and blessed to have a lot of different skill sets
Speaker 3: and things that I could do. And then I started
Speaker 3: just looking at social media. I'm like, well, for me,
Speaker 3: I kind of just got depressed after the show ended.
Speaker 3: Kind of got tired of dealing with kind of the
Speaker 3: corporate entertainment side of things, notes, calls, all that type
Speaker 3: of stuff, and I was like, let me just operate
Speaker 3: in a vacuum and build this thing up and figure
Speaker 3: it out. So I was working at a company and
Speaker 3: you know NFL network, different spots, writing articles, doing stuff
Speaker 3: on the company computers. You know, bosses would come in.
Speaker 3: I have to X out of the screen real quick,
Speaker 3: act like I'm doing my NFL stuff. But slowly, but surely,
Speaker 3: that stuff started to take off to the point where
Speaker 3: my boss's NFL network we'd be talking about articles from
Speaker 3: the website I posted under an alias, and I'm just
Speaker 3: sitting there cracking up, like they got no idea that
Speaker 3: it's me doing this stuff. So that stuff took off,
Speaker 3: ended up leading to the show Comedy Central. That show
Speaker 3: gets canceled. I start doing social media kind of as
Speaker 3: a hobby at that point, like a lot of people,
Speaker 3: I'm just like, well, I can get my unfiltered thoughts
Speaker 3: out here. I don't have to get anybody's permission or approval.
Speaker 3: So it just started doing a lot of stuff in
Speaker 3: the meme space. And notice I would watch shows like
Speaker 3: Game of Thrones, Insecure, see the communities that were built
Speaker 3: around those shows, like had the Isa Hive and the
Speaker 3: Lawrence Hive and all that stuff going on, and I'm
Speaker 3: just like, this is the future of content. This is
Speaker 3: the future of the world. And you know, back in
Speaker 3: the days when Legends of Chamber and Heights started, everything
Speaker 3: was we're gonna give you some billboards and you're gonna
Speaker 3: be in magazines and stuff like that, and I'm just thinking, like,
Speaker 3: that's not how people engage or interact with content. I
Speaker 3: find out everything. I find out through Twitter, through Instagram,
Speaker 3: through social media, and really see people born out of
Speaker 3: this thing, kind of non traditional stars, if you will,
Speaker 3: that have grown out of this whole world in this
Speaker 3: lane where they can control their destiny with what they do.
Speaker 3: So I just really started hitting it hard, really started
Speaker 3: looking at memes and for me, like growing up playing basketball,
Speaker 3: being in locker rooms, like it was always getting the
Speaker 3: jokes off, and you had to know pop culture, you
Speaker 3: had to know sports culture, you know, you had to
Speaker 3: know everything to be able to kind of hold your
Speaker 3: own to survivor amongst the sharks in the locker room
Speaker 3: where everybody's clowning each other or whatever it may be.
Speaker 3: So I use meme culture to really grow, and I
Speaker 3: think the first kind of pivotal moment for me, I
Speaker 3: won't forget this, Like Antonio Brown had bounced around from
Speaker 3: like two or three different teams like the Patriots, the Raiders, whatever,
Speaker 3: if you remember those times. So I did a get
Speaker 3: Out meme of him seeing Josh Gordon at the Patriots facility,
Speaker 3: like I think the Raiders that released him. You know,
Speaker 3: he made that video I'm free whatever, run around the house.
Speaker 3: So he goes and at that time Belichick coaching the
Speaker 3: Patriots the Patriots way, everybody kind of knew what it was.
Speaker 3: Josh Gordon had been there for a while. So I
Speaker 3: had a scene from get Out, you know when the
Speaker 3: main character SE's a keif character at that little like
Speaker 3: get together gathering whatever. He tried to tap him up
Speaker 3: and gets, you know, he gets the week the handshake.
Speaker 3: So I made a video that Jordan Peele ended up
Speaker 3: seeing it, and then Jordan Peel idole of Mine had
Speaker 3: Key and Peel at Comedy Central at that point. And
Speaker 3: I always tell people this story kind of just as
Speaker 3: a motivational tool for them, Like me and Jordan Peel
Speaker 3: both had a TV show the same network. If I
Speaker 3: would have went to my agents, like, yo, can you
Speaker 3: give me a meeting with Jordan Peel, they would have
Speaker 3: pretended like they were gonna do it. It would have never happened.
Speaker 3: You know. We reached out to his team, he wasn't available,
Speaker 3: blah blah blah. But through that thing he quotes the
Speaker 3: video said you win, Joe Side Like, I made a
Speaker 3: t shirt out of it, Like, took a screen grab
Speaker 3: of the tweet. Still got the shirt in my closet
Speaker 3: at home. You went just so I ended up following me.
Speaker 3: We DM back and forth and talked and communicated and connected,
Speaker 3: and that was kind of the first real time I
Speaker 3: realized that the power that social has. And then obviously
Speaker 3: a lot of people now remember like Lebron you know,
Speaker 3: calling me the King or whatever it may be. And
Speaker 3: I think that was twenty twenty one, if I'm not mistaken.
Speaker 3: During the playoffs again, similar situation. I think the Nets
Speaker 3: are playing in the playoffs. Bruce Brown kind of took
Speaker 3: some crazy shots, so I throw up a Harlem Knights video,
Speaker 3: you know, stop shooting that little shit, you know, But
Speaker 3: just as a kid growing up, I would see all
Speaker 3: this stuff and it just I was I loved entertainment.
Speaker 3: I love media, love content. So that then getting like
Speaker 3: the co sign from Lebron at that point like really
Speaker 3: kind of put me on the map. But it's playing
Speaker 3: like before that atter he created a TV show for
Speaker 3: Comedy Central and done a bunch of stuff. So people
Speaker 3: will look at that and be like, oh, that's when
Speaker 3: you really got put on like not been doing it,
Speaker 3: but that was like, all right, I'm here now. It
Speaker 3: really just showed me social the ability that it has
Speaker 3: to help elevate and grow you as a human being
Speaker 3: in your personal life, your career and as you know now,
Speaker 3: like you can't really walk in the door of a
Speaker 3: network or whatever. First thing they're looking at is you're
Speaker 3: following what kind of engagement you have and how you
Speaker 3: can move the needle and culture without having to rely
Speaker 3: on what, you know, whatever resources they have, Like can
Speaker 3: you build this up yourself? Can you really go out
Speaker 3: and do it? So I'd say the Jordan Peel moment
Speaker 3: really kind of showed me all right, I can do this,
Speaker 3: Like wow, like this is like I can really like
Speaker 3: somebody I idolize and you know has a similar kind
Speaker 3: of trajectory and stories me get their attention, and then
Speaker 3: the Lebron thing was like, all right, now I'm gonna
Speaker 3: go just all in on this. And this is during
Speaker 3: the tail end of the pandemic. We all still are
Speaker 3: kind of just reeling from that, figuring out what life
Speaker 3: is and trying to get back to it. But in
Speaker 3: that pandemic moment, I really was like, I'm just gonna
Speaker 3: hit it with this. This is the one thing I
Speaker 3: can do that nobody else can control. And now I'm
Speaker 3: seeing a ton of success from it. And it's funny.
Speaker 3: The same people who you know, I'm not gonna say
Speaker 3: I left Comedy Central on the best terms, but those
Speaker 3: same people now see me like, oh man, we always
Speaker 3: believe that you know you can do it, And I'm like,
Speaker 3: you would have used me as a cautionary tale if
Speaker 3: you could. You would have been like, see what happens
Speaker 3: when you act up? See what happens when you you know,
Speaker 3: you talk back or you try to nah. This is
Speaker 3: so I just kind of laugh at all that now,
Speaker 3: but it's it's given me a sense of humility and
Speaker 3: made me super humble and everything I do. So when
Speaker 3: you asked earlier, like what do you like to be called? Like,
Speaker 3: just call me Josiah, Like I don't. I don't roll
Speaker 3: in like I'm the king of social media. Like that's
Speaker 3: just you know, can you. I'm just saying, like I
Speaker 3: see so many people that do that. I think it's
Speaker 3: like an insecurity they have and just not believing in
Speaker 3: their achievements. I roll in T shirts short, it's like
Speaker 3: in some chucks. That's that, you know, anywhere you see me,
Speaker 3: That's what I'm gonna be rocking.
Speaker 2: Now, what's your process for like sort of finding the
Speaker 2: perfect meme?
Speaker 3: I have so much stuff just sitting in my head,
Speaker 3: and just like I'll randomly quote.
Speaker 1: Stuff as I'm like drafts like ooh.
Speaker 3: So I'll normally like I'm so basic and I'm looking
Speaker 3: at like AI and all this stuff now and I'm
Speaker 3: just like, I know I'm gonna be phased out soon
Speaker 3: because I just can't get down like Gronck and all
Speaker 3: this other stuff. I just I see Chad GPT and
Speaker 3: I'm just like, nah, I just have it in my brain.
Speaker 3: So when I see things happen, like I'll see in
Speaker 3: like mean form and it's like it might be a
Speaker 3: moment in a game or whatever it is, I'm like, oh,
Speaker 3: that reminds me of don't be a minute. So that
Speaker 3: reminds me of you know, I'm really heavy in my era,
Speaker 3: like John Singleton films, obviously the Wayne's family. I actually
Speaker 3: went to junior high school with Damon Wayne's junior so
Speaker 3: living color a era, all that stuff like that's what
Speaker 3: I grew up on. So all that stuff just like
Speaker 3: festering on my brain, those memories, and for me, it's
Speaker 3: like just to stay connected to that material, stay connected
Speaker 3: to that time in my life. But I tell people like,
Speaker 3: I didn't grow up in the SpongeBob era, So y'all
Speaker 3: got all the SpongeBob stuff y'all got, That's not my lane, like,
Speaker 3: and I'll never always gonna be true to myself. But
Speaker 3: everything that is from my era, like that nineties, early
Speaker 3: two thousands, all those experiences, I just see stuff and
Speaker 3: it's like, all this reminds me of this or that,
Speaker 3: and I'll quickly just try to get it up. And
Speaker 3: you know, like you said, a lot of people now
Speaker 3: have gravitated toward this space. A lot of them haven't
Speaker 3: paid their dues or you know, paid their tithes. As
Speaker 3: I like to say, and they just try to kind
Speaker 3: of mirror and copy it, but there's always a secret
Speaker 3: sauce to it. I think a lot of people just
Speaker 3: don't grasp in terms of how to connect with people
Speaker 3: and how to get it in that right moment, in
Speaker 3: the exact time and the caption, the wording and everything,
Speaker 3: the exact clip, when to get in on the clip,
Speaker 3: when to get out on the clip. So much that
Speaker 3: goes into it that I think people don't really appreciate
Speaker 3: that they think they can replicate, and it's just funny
Speaker 3: to see kind of I'm gonna call them copycats because
Speaker 3: I appreciate you know, it's very flattering, but it's also
Speaker 3: like nothing makes me matter when somebody tried to do
Speaker 3: it and they do it wrong, and I'm like, you
Speaker 3: could just like you're trying to copy the sauce and
Speaker 3: you just don't want it. Left it, leave it alone
Speaker 3: or ask me ask for missould be like hey, cause
Speaker 3: people know, like I'm always like I embrace everybody, like yo,
Speaker 3: should I do it like this? That whatever? And it's funny.
Speaker 3: I got a lot of people that we know they'll
Speaker 3: see them do sof sometimes I'm like, just do it
Speaker 3: like that? You know, I'll just hit him in the
Speaker 3: DM like you almost had it, but just do it
Speaker 3: like that. They go do it and it goes viral
Speaker 3: and it's like, oh man, you know, so I'm gonna
Speaker 3: say I'm ghost writing, but it just irks me when
Speaker 3: I see some shit and I'm like, yo, if you
Speaker 3: just did that, it would have been perfect. Like, so
Speaker 3: it is what it is.
Speaker 2: Well, we know, one of the conversations that we constantly have,
Speaker 2: especially around content creation, and you know you're a perfect
Speaker 2: example of this, is that notice how these team Twitter
Speaker 2: accounts are the language that you use now and they're
Speaker 2: doing what you're doing right or trying to.
Speaker 1: Some of them make very bad attempts.
Speaker 2: For black creators, that has been a sore spot is that,
Speaker 2: you know, taking your genius, taking your excellence, and then
Speaker 2: trying to copy it and doing it worse.
Speaker 1: You know, like what's your perspective on that?
Speaker 2: And the fact that, like we often see how the
Speaker 2: culture is like sort of robbed in this way.
Speaker 3: So I'm gonna take you back twenty twenty George Floyd
Speaker 3: situation goes down and I'm working a lot in Hollywood
Speaker 3: at that time, and I had a lot of what
Speaker 3: I call the George Floyd General Meetings, where at that point,
Speaker 3: people kind of finally realize like, damn, this is really
Speaker 3: fucked up, like we're not giving black creators, black culture
Speaker 3: this opportunity and kind of did these performative meetings where
Speaker 3: it's like we really want to hear your thoughts and
Speaker 3: we believe in you and we want to you know,
Speaker 3: and I realized, like, damn, I'm a lot of white
Speaker 3: people's only black friend, like a lot of white people's industry,
Speaker 3: Like I'm really your only black friend. So I kind
Speaker 3: of I want to say I've lost my mind at
Speaker 3: that point, but really just got disappointed, like grew my
Speaker 3: hair out, didn't shave for a long time. So I
Speaker 3: would take these meetings probably looking like my dad is
Speaker 3: Raymond and white make can jump, just looking crazy because
Speaker 3: like I don't believe any of this shit. And then
Speaker 3: there was a point too where you had all these
Speaker 3: social teams and they would post pictures of their whole team.
Speaker 2: Man, and I'm just looking like I hear everybody white.
Speaker 3: And like I'll hear the way you guys talk, and
Speaker 3: then I see you in real life and you don't
Speaker 3: talk the way that you talk in real life, Like,
Speaker 3: if there's one thing about me, I'm gonna be consistent,
Speaker 3: Like the way I speak on social is the way
Speaker 3: I'm gonna speak when you see me. So it felt like, again,
Speaker 3: you were kind of just robbing and taking the culture.
Speaker 3: And that's like a sad thing. And even I don't
Speaker 3: use TikTok, but you see the world where you know,
Speaker 3: there was a couple of years ago where a couple
Speaker 3: of black creators came up with dances and we're doing stuff.
Speaker 3: Then you look at All Star Weekend, they got the
Speaker 3: white creators kind of doing it off beat and not
Speaker 3: hitting it like they need to. And then eventually they
Speaker 3: kind of obviously repaired that brought the black creatives black
Speaker 3: dancers in to kind of come do it correctly. But
Speaker 3: you just see how people and this isn't anything new, right,
Speaker 3: they've they've eaten off this culture, benefited from it, and
Speaker 3: again not put anything back in the offering plate. And yes,
Speaker 3: black culture is amazing, like and I'm not mad that
Speaker 3: people want to do that, Like who wouldn't want to
Speaker 3: see that and want to be like it? But it
Speaker 3: also comes to point too where you can't be tone
Speaker 3: deaf with it, right, you've got to be respectful. You've
Speaker 3: got to give these people, especially with everything going now
Speaker 3: in the world. And we talk about merit base, well,
Speaker 3: you know, that's a term I don't really get down
Speaker 3: with because we've seen what it is in real life.
Speaker 3: We've seen if two candidates have the same exact resume,
Speaker 3: if one's name is hard to pronounce, they're probably not
Speaker 3: going to get that gig. If one person looks like
Speaker 3: somebody else, they look like the person hiring they they're
Speaker 3: more likely going to get that gig. So I think,
Speaker 3: you know, we talk about the need for diversity, but
Speaker 3: it's not diversity like we want handouts, Like we just
Speaker 3: want acknowledgement and recognition for the things that we're doing.
Speaker 3: And I should see so many creators that I knew
Speaker 3: and respected that will blatantly just get their content jacked
Speaker 3: by these big accounts. And we've seen it, entertainment accounts,
Speaker 3: gambling accounts, all these type of things that try and
Speaker 3: talk like the culture and then you look at their
Speaker 3: you know, social media director and this person and that person,
Speaker 3: and I'm like, you were a square. You are not
Speaker 3: like you don't speak like this. So and the fact
Speaker 3: that you're doing this putting on digital black face, Like
Speaker 3: that's something I really should just feel disrespected by, but
Speaker 3: also like we just got to continue grinding, do what
Speaker 3: we got to do to get to where we need
Speaker 3: to be and hopefully to get some more equity in
Speaker 3: these spaces.
Speaker 2: You know you're for rating and entertainment, I guess for
Speaker 2: people who know a little bit about your background, and
Speaker 2: it is really not that surprising I read this about you,
Speaker 2: the fact that you sort of grew up being exposed
Speaker 2: to like the different world said, and really kind of
Speaker 2: early on getting exposed to entertainment. What did those early experiences,
Speaker 2: how did that shape how you felt your place in
Speaker 2: the industry would be.
Speaker 3: So there's one major or moment or series of moments.
Speaker 3: So my dad played for the Clippers, his teammate Norm Nixon,
Speaker 3: Norm married to Debbie Allen, Debbie the show runner. A
Speaker 3: different world at that point, so very close family friends.
Speaker 3: My mom used to be an extra on a Different World.
Speaker 3: So she's in a like the Patti LaBelle Christmas episode,
Speaker 3: but so missus, I would always, you know, make my
Speaker 3: mom featured in these things. And there's points she's like
Speaker 3: pregnant with one of my little brothers, in these things,
Speaker 3: different stages of her life, but she's always popping up
Speaker 3: in the background. So as kids, I went to the
Speaker 3: same elementary school as Norman Debbie's kids, so we would
Speaker 3: get picked up and then we would get taken over
Speaker 3: to the studio, like on Thursday, Friday. I forget whatevery
Speaker 3: day they taped. So I would spend a good portion
Speaker 3: of my life just watching this show. And I think
Speaker 3: not really appreciating at that point in my younger life
Speaker 3: because at that point, you had the Cops Show, you
Speaker 3: had a different world. You had all these shows that
Speaker 3: were dominating network television, and me just thinking that was normal, right,
Speaker 3: not realizing now that that was not saying anomaly, but
Speaker 3: that was it.
Speaker 2: Maybe not for La, you know, I lit most of
Speaker 2: us growing up to watch a different world.
Speaker 1: We couldn't imagine a life, but we would actually be on.
Speaker 3: Set watching the HBCU and I'm just like, oh, this
Speaker 3: is normal, And then you get older you kind of
Speaker 3: realize what it is. But to see the way that
Speaker 3: Debbie Allen, you know, she would be the voice of God.
Speaker 3: She'd be in the control room, but you'd have the
Speaker 3: studio audience there and she's just voice of godding onto
Speaker 3: the set town everybody where they need to be, in
Speaker 3: places in boot Boom and just doing all that stuff
Speaker 3: and just seeing her in the regular life, you know,
Speaker 3: and they kind of realizing how incredible and amazing entertainer
Speaker 3: and all her achievements, but getting to spend time on
Speaker 3: those sets, and also learning too that a lot of
Speaker 3: people just watch these shows and I don't think they
Speaker 3: realized the time, energy effort that goes into actually making
Speaker 3: these things, the hours that you spend doing it. So
Speaker 3: I remember, you know, vividly the wedding episode where obviously
Speaker 3: Welly's supposed to marry you know, Senator, if I'm not mistaken,
Speaker 3: and obviously Dwayne Wayne comes in and so I've seen that.
Speaker 1: You saw, you saw them actually do it?
Speaker 3: Oh wow, eight weeks, you know, three months for the
Speaker 3: episode came out, just because they would let me. Because
Speaker 3: I was with her, I kind of got a little
Speaker 3: bit more cart blanche to kind of just roll around.
Speaker 3: I would get bush at and cussed out by you know,
Speaker 3: people in the crew at times, like what you're doing
Speaker 3: over here or whatever. But you know, so I'd pick
Speaker 3: up scripts, read and kind of you know, watch along
Speaker 3: with all the with all the stuff that was going on.
Speaker 3: But I would know eight twelve weeks in advance what
Speaker 3: was going on on these shows, just because my mom
Speaker 3: was an extra. And if you watch that episode my
Speaker 3: dad as a part of like the grooms Men, like
Speaker 3: my mom's extra in there, like oh that's right, so
Speaker 3: you see him roll off like it's like so my
Speaker 3: dad kind of chunky at that point, got the beer.
Speaker 3: But so we were all just like immersing that world.
Speaker 3: And like I said, white Man Can't Jump. And Dad
Speaker 3: did a bunch of cameos on La Law on Simbad Show.
Speaker 3: So I used to go there and hang out on
Speaker 3: set with like a young Ray J who was on
Speaker 3: Simbad Show and just watch all these things get made
Speaker 3: and created. So I always had an affinity for that world,
Speaker 3: and then obviously as I got older in life, got
Speaker 3: to actually do it, but really appreciate what went into
Speaker 3: making that kind of just understanding that that really kind
Speaker 3: of guided the culture. And now that I take a
Speaker 3: step back and look at it, it's like wow, Like
Speaker 3: you know, I got to really hang out with Debbie Allen,
Speaker 3: just know her as a regular see her in her
Speaker 3: regular life at birthday parties and school events and things,
Speaker 3: and then see her as a showrunner of one of
Speaker 3: the greatest television shows I feel like in history.
Speaker 1: So it holds up incredibly well.
Speaker 2: I still watch it whenever I can, at least multiple
Speaker 2: times a week, and it's amazing to me.
Speaker 1: Just again, I will the best age.
Speaker 2: You are so versatile in so many things that you
Speaker 2: do a lot more I definitely want to get to
Speaker 2: you with and also some NBA stuff I want to
Speaker 2: ask you about.
Speaker 1: But you know, we're going to talk about gils Arena
Speaker 1: as well, because y'all be on there fooling. But we're
Speaker 1: going to take a quick break.
Speaker 2: We'll be back with more with the Josiah Johnson who
Speaker 2: never call him the king when you see him ouern
Speaker 2: public back in the moment.
Speaker 1: So, as I mentioned before the break, you're very versatile.
Speaker 2: And one of the roles I really enjoy you in
Speaker 2: is you happen to play Ernie Johnson on GILA.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 2: Gils Arena is a podcast that you have Gilbert Arenas.
Speaker 2: It's what Brandon Jennings, Kenyan, Martin, Lexi brown Shiro swoops
Speaker 2: for Shot mccant's personalities like big, big bold personalities and
Speaker 2: you guys are hilarious. Y'all also crazy, but you guys
Speaker 2: are very hilarious. But just tell me a little bit
Speaker 2: about how Gil's arena came together.
Speaker 3: Also how to get swaggy pe some little yeah, but
Speaker 3: you know, I'm sorry. I make sure. Look I love
Speaker 3: that crew, and so me and Gil our working relationships.
Speaker 3: I've known Gil. We are actually the same age. He's
Speaker 3: born in January, I'm born in April. But he was
Speaker 3: a year older in high school. So that's one thing
Speaker 3: about Gil. I don't think people realize that. You talk
Speaker 3: about this whole back culture nowadays where kids stay back.
Speaker 3: Now you got eighteen, nineteen twenty year old seniors in
Speaker 3: high school. I want to say Gil was like seventeen
Speaker 3: years old as a graduating senior in high school. Was
Speaker 3: seventeen when he went to u of A. And one
Speaker 3: thing about Gil, he was kind of like an under
Speaker 3: the radar. Like my dad always tells his story, He's
Speaker 3: heard the name Gilbert Arenas, didn't see the face, so
Speaker 3: he thought he was a Mexican basketball player. And he
Speaker 3: was like I would always see these newspaper articles. I'm like,
Speaker 3: who's this Mexican dude that this out here putting up
Speaker 3: forty to fifty. It's like Gilbert and then he finally
Speaker 3: kind of saw in college and realized who he was.
Speaker 3: So we had always I went to high school in
Speaker 3: the valley. Gil went to high school in the valley.
Speaker 3: So I transferred from Crenshaw my junior year. Gill was
Speaker 3: I think in his senior year at Grant. But the
Speaker 3: thing back in those days was the Daily News. They
Speaker 3: had a great high school sports section. LA Times had
Speaker 3: a great high school sports section. But you knew if
Speaker 3: you played the same night that Gill played, they would
Speaker 3: do the top scores, like I'm not gonna be the
Speaker 3: top scorer, and I ain no matter what I'd do.
Speaker 3: I could drop forty, he's gonna drop fifty. I could
Speaker 3: drop fifty, he's gonna drop sixty. He this is what
Speaker 3: it is. So he built up a name and reputation
Speaker 3: for himself. So we ended up just coincidentally. I moved
Speaker 3: literally like two blocks away from him. So around like
Speaker 3: about twenty sixteen, right around when legend the Chamberlain Heights
Speaker 3: was taken over, me and my wife moved to Widland Hills,
Speaker 3: So I would you know, during the pandemic, I would
Speaker 3: go jog around the neighborhood. That was like my only release.
Speaker 3: I'd gotten really kind of down and depressed at that point.
Speaker 3: Legend that got canceled. This was when I was first
Speaker 3: kind of doing social media. But I ballooned up to
Speaker 3: close to like four hundred pounds. Pandemic happens. My wife,
Speaker 3: my family kind of politely or like, look, you need
Speaker 3: to get your fat ass in shape, like this thing
Speaker 3: is shacking people's live now. My brother's gonna be really
Speaker 3: like yeah you like, you know, Joe, you're fat dog,
Speaker 3: Like get it together. So I'm close to like four
Speaker 3: hundred pounds, So I would just start go jogging around
Speaker 3: the neighborhood. And at that point, you know, it was
Speaker 3: felt like, you know, third world country out here. You
Speaker 3: go to routes and be thirty people online and they
Speaker 3: let into at a time and you no toilet paper.
Speaker 3: I'm just thinking of my head, like what y'all need
Speaker 3: all this toilet paper for? Like y'all were never doing
Speaker 3: this before, Like why paper towers and toilet paper became
Speaker 3: the thing that everybody like thought that.
Speaker 1: They needed for the roy me.
Speaker 2: It was just like, Wow, we're really here now where
Speaker 2: we're on food like when they were only allowing you
Speaker 2: to get like one pack of meat per household.
Speaker 1: You're just like, dog, what it's crazy.
Speaker 3: But you would roll in there and you see paper
Speaker 3: towers and toilet paper, be like, oh my god, love.
Speaker 3: But then you understand why they hoarded it. My back
Speaker 3: end of Mike, you understood why they hoarded it. But
Speaker 3: so around that point, I would go run around the neighbors.
Speaker 3: So I would see Guil all the time, and we
Speaker 3: were kind of just say what up to each other.
Speaker 3: I'll be mid jogg, but he'd come through in his
Speaker 3: made back mini van, and you know, we constantly would
Speaker 3: bump into each other. So fast forward. It ended up
Speaker 3: he was looking for a new host for a show
Speaker 3: No Chill. My agent connected us. Uh, you know, we
Speaker 3: just kind of hit it off right away. So we
Speaker 3: started doing. Bill saw a ton of success for that.
Speaker 3: But for him, he was always I mean, I want
Speaker 3: to do more. And and the thing I say about
Speaker 3: Gil what makes him so successful is Gil doesn't approach
Speaker 3: this like traditional media traditional talent. Traditional talent can be
Speaker 3: a pain in the ass. They don't want to work,
Speaker 3: they don't want to do they just want to do
Speaker 3: the bare minimum. Hey, my show is on from one
Speaker 3: to two. I'll be here at twelve, like I'm leaving
Speaker 3: at two oh five, where Gil is more like a
Speaker 3: CAI sented like streamer, like I'm on like we do
Speaker 3: our show. We do a two and a half to
Speaker 3: two hour, forty five minute show no commercials, which I
Speaker 3: tell people by comparison because I grew up work in
Speaker 3: sports entertainment, sports television. That's like a four hour TV
Speaker 3: show with the commercial breaks and all that stuff. Bill think,
Speaker 3: So we don't stop like we started about eleven thirty,
Speaker 3: eleven forty, you know, we'd be on CP time like
Speaker 3: it is kind of what it is cha. The chat
Speaker 3: always gets mad, y'all not ready, like, look, this is Gil.
Speaker 3: And the crazy thing is we film this in Gill's house,
Speaker 3: in his basement, and he's usually the last one to
Speaker 3: come down, but it's like when he does, he's on.
Speaker 3: But he'll come down after doing a three hour livestream
Speaker 3: on his own personal channel or doing you know, two
Speaker 3: to three hour workout with his kids, like his son
Speaker 3: Elijah McDonald's all American who just committed to SC His
Speaker 3: older daughter issela who you know, standout high school player
Speaker 3: Thisever at Louisville, and he's got a couple of young
Speaker 3: ones too that are gonna be doing the same thing
Speaker 3: following that trajectory. So he kind of handles all his
Speaker 3: responsibilities but locks in to do the show. So we
Speaker 3: started that show February twenty twenty three, didn't really know
Speaker 3: what it was gonna be. We're kind of just figuring
Speaker 3: it out. But the thing I love about Gil is
Speaker 3: Gil himself is a guy who couldn't really get on
Speaker 3: the mainstream media. I kind of compare him all the
Speaker 3: time to Pat McAfee, who's a friend of mine, somebody
Speaker 3: I'll look up to. But I'm like passive punter. If
Speaker 3: he goes to ESPN, he goes to these networks before
Speaker 3: he has any success. It's like, bro, you're a punter.
Speaker 3: Like same with Gil. Gil had a tremendous amount of
Speaker 3: success in his NBA career, but not you know, he's controversial.
Speaker 3: Obviously had situations going on in his life when he
Speaker 3: was with the Wizards, so he kind of had this
Speaker 3: stigma around him where he wasn't ever going to get
Speaker 3: those opportunities, so he had to go create and take
Speaker 3: those opportunities. Similar to what Pat did. So we started
Speaker 3: the show and right away he's like, I don't want
Speaker 3: you know, traditional people on the show. I want, you know,
Speaker 3: Rashan mckantz, who we had had on an episode of
Speaker 3: No Chill. He was great on that episode. I think
Speaker 3: they ended up Gil. So Gil has a gym in
Speaker 3: his house, but he goes and works out at La Fitness.
Speaker 3: So him and shot You's always see each other at
Speaker 3: La Fitness and they would just you know, be shooting
Speaker 3: the shit and talking. He's like, I want Rashad Brandon Jennings,
Speaker 3: who lives right down the street from us, Like, I
Speaker 3: want to get a BJ on the show. I want
Speaker 3: to get you know, Swaggy, who they have their relationship,
Speaker 3: their dynamic which is like, you know, it's Swaggy was
Speaker 3: Gil's Ricky when they were together, and they still operate
Speaker 3: like that. But just to see those two dudes when
Speaker 3: they get together. And I don't think a lot of
Speaker 3: people realize for as crazy as you think, the show
Speaker 3: is like the group chat like those dudes that they
Speaker 3: don't they don't turn anything on. That's what it is like.
Speaker 3: If anything, the camera start rolling, but they've already been
Speaker 3: in the middle of arguments and shit that will just
Speaker 3: bring to the show, bringing on Lexi Brown, who's done
Speaker 3: an amazing job still playing obviously WNBA, Cheryl Swoops, who
Speaker 3: arguably the goat, bringing her perspective, just a unique crew
Speaker 3: of minds. Everybody has so much to offer from their experiences.
Speaker 3: You talk about a guy like Brandon who who you know,
Speaker 3: was a trendsetter going from high school to Italy, not
Speaker 3: going to the traditional college route. Rashad won a national
Speaker 3: championship in North Carolina, Dayton Kardashians, all that type of
Speaker 3: thing and the reputation he has. Versut when you actually
Speaker 3: just sit down and meet and just understand how smart
Speaker 3: and creative and you know, kind of the narrative about
Speaker 3: him before you meet him, then you just send and
Speaker 3: talk with him and like, Yo, this dude is really
Speaker 3: just like high level intelligence. He's basically be called the
Speaker 3: joker that Gill's batman. So he loves nothing more than
Speaker 3: and sometime I don't even think he believes the shit.
Speaker 3: But if Gil says go left, he gonna say, nah,
Speaker 3: go right, and they're just gonna butteas and go at it.
Speaker 3: And I kind of always make the joke. You know,
Speaker 3: we have a good show. If one of them is
Speaker 3: sweating and now both of them are sweating because they're
Speaker 3: just going at each other. That's that's a recipe for
Speaker 3: great television. But we've been able, and when we started
Speaker 3: this thing, we had a vision of where we wanted
Speaker 3: to be, where we wanted to go, And I really
Speaker 3: salute Underdog who came in and was like, look, we're
Speaker 3: gonna let y'all rock out. Shout out. Tim Livson, who's
Speaker 3: a VP of content over there, Jeremy Levine, one of
Speaker 3: the founders, like you guys be you like and you know,
Speaker 3: working in this game, it's like we want Jamail, but
Speaker 3: then it's like, oh, we don't want that Jamail though,
Speaker 3: like you can't.
Speaker 1: Yeah, But it's it's levels to how much they want
Speaker 1: of you.
Speaker 3: Can you say like this? I like, yeah, Buth And
Speaker 3: for us, like we don't have any restrictions, any limitations
Speaker 3: to an extent. Obviously, we have told that line and
Speaker 3: pushed it. And for me, in my regular life, I'm
Speaker 3: a jokester kind of you know, don't really take anything serious.
Speaker 3: I've had to adapt more to the Ernie Johnson kind
Speaker 3: of straight in here because I tell people like if
Speaker 3: I go out there and be my normal self. This
Speaker 3: shit is gonna be way too turned up and crazy
Speaker 3: and we will not get anything accomplished. So I got
Speaker 3: to kind of be I don't even say the adult,
Speaker 3: but like the point guard in the room. Make sure
Speaker 3: everybody's getting involved, make sure everybody's getting their points and
Speaker 3: their takes and across. And I think for us, you know,
Speaker 3: when we started this thing, we wanted to be the
Speaker 3: cure for the common show that was kind of the
Speaker 3: moniker rallying cry. And I think we've accomplished that now here.
Speaker 3: We are almost two years into it. We're in our
Speaker 3: third season right now. A whole cash has got extensions recently.
Speaker 3: And I think for as much as people see Gill's
Speaker 3: front facing public face, I mean Gil's super loyal dude.
Speaker 3: Like if Gil with you, he's gonna ride with you
Speaker 3: till the wheels fall off. Of supports his crew, supports
Speaker 3: all the talent on the show, supports me, like it's funny.
Speaker 3: So Gil. Gil has a phone that doesn't take incoming calls,
Speaker 3: so he calls you. You don't pick up, You can't
Speaker 3: call Gil back. I have to. He'll call me sometimes
Speaker 3: if I miss it. I got a text him, I'm
Speaker 3: by the phone now, Gill like you hit me, but
Speaker 3: he'll call me.
Speaker 2: Uh, how does one get a phone that doesn't take
Speaker 2: incoming calls?
Speaker 1: And I want to find this phone?
Speaker 3: Well, as he explains it, at the height of his career,
Speaker 3: when he was making a lot of money, a lot
Speaker 3: of people were hitting him up for money and to
Speaker 3: bother him and all those types of things.
Speaker 2: So he was like saying, why, Yeah, but I wonder
Speaker 2: how do you get the phone?
Speaker 3: You know, you get to a certain status. I'm not
Speaker 3: quite there yet. You know, you get one hundred MS.
Speaker 1: You can note it. If you ever run into Gilbert
Speaker 1: or Reada's make sure that you ask him how did you.
Speaker 3: Get the So you try to call Gil like you
Speaker 3: was wasting your time, like you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 3: like that's family included, whoever. But he hits me up
Speaker 3: and we just go over ideas content And like I said,
Speaker 3: he's just kind of a mad scientist genius in terms
Speaker 3: of how he put this whole crew together. And I
Speaker 3: think all of us are like super appreciative of just hey,
Speaker 3: the opportunity, but be I see how hard Gil works.
Speaker 3: So I'm literally you know this schedule is basically. So
Speaker 3: I'm producing the shows along with our show runner, Steve
Speaker 3: Martinez and Baron Damn, our other producer. But we're going
Speaker 3: till two am. And on the days I got to
Speaker 3: produce a show, I got to so we do the
Speaker 3: show eleven thirty to two thirty. I go do I
Speaker 3: coach high school basketball, I coach my kids, so I'll
Speaker 3: do all that stuff. Knock out my family obligations, come back,
Speaker 3: watch the games up till two am. Building the show
Speaker 3: because Gill wakes up at four thirty in the morning,
Speaker 3: so I have to have the show lined up for
Speaker 3: him when he wakes up to go back review everything,
Speaker 3: make its good. He'll calm if you don't like some
Speaker 3: take it out, or he got a great idea, let's
Speaker 3: do this, or you know, I'm gonna say it like
Speaker 3: this that we'll just kind of constantly go back and
Speaker 3: forth and then just following that same formula recipe. And
Speaker 3: this is seven days a week. We're all Monday through Thursday.
Speaker 3: But it don't stop cuz we're either talking. We got
Speaker 3: a group chat with everybody on the show in it
Speaker 3: that's you know, a little too hot for TV, but
Speaker 3: that's where the best stuff goes now as it could
Speaker 3: be any point in today. It could be something somebody
Speaker 3: said three weeks ago, and it's like, remember when you
Speaker 3: said this, and then just I'll open the phone. Sometimes
Speaker 3: it be like one hundred text messages back and forth. Dude,
Speaker 3: just going at each other and getting it. But I
Speaker 3: think that's that's the secret to making the show so successful,
Speaker 3: because these people aren't changing, They're not switching up. When
Speaker 3: the camera turns on. Whatever's on their mind at that
Speaker 3: particular moment, they're gonna say controversial. I know we got
Speaker 3: a lot of players that are mad at us, and
Speaker 3: you know a lot of people that are critical of
Speaker 3: what we do. But I think they also got to
Speaker 3: recognize at the end of the day, these are former players.
Speaker 3: These are guys who experienced it. And I go back
Speaker 3: to a moment for us Zion a summer of twenty
Speaker 3: twenty three kind of I want to say, put our
Speaker 3: show on the map. But like we were taping episodes
Speaker 3: the Summer League in Vegas. Gil who you know, but
Speaker 3: Gil always I think, very complimentary guys, but has experienced that.
Speaker 3: So Gil will tell you about life on the road,
Speaker 3: tell you going to the four seasons, eating two double
Speaker 3: cheese burgers and three milkshakes, and what his pregame routine
Speaker 3: and ritual was. So he was very sympathetic to Zion.
Speaker 3: So we were having a convo about Zion at the
Speaker 3: Blue Wires studio at the wind there's a big glass
Speaker 3: partitioning so you can see everybody coming in and out.
Speaker 3: Ten seconds later, Zion walks up. We had no clue,
Speaker 3: looks at us. Oh there they go right there, fucking
Speaker 3: rolls in and he had had some situations going on
Speaker 3: at that time. I'm sure people obviously you can google
Speaker 3: what was going on around twenty twenty three for Zion
Speaker 3: in that summer. But comes on the show for twenty minutes.
Speaker 3: He's got a handler with him trying to get him
Speaker 3: to leave. And you know, like you try to book
Speaker 3: a guests, you try to get talent that comes with strings.
Speaker 3: You can't ask him about this, you can't do that,
Speaker 3: you can't say this like and this was like Zion, like, nah,
Speaker 3: I want to talk to these dudes. He came up
Speaker 3: right behind guild like, hands on shoulders, kind of put
Speaker 3: him in the vice grip. But you know, you know,
Speaker 3: a very polite professional way ended up sitting us for
Speaker 3: twenty minutes, and that was kind of one of the
Speaker 3: first moments that showed us that athletes watched this thing,
Speaker 3: like you know what I mean, I'm rolling around the wind.
Speaker 3: I don't think people know who I am. I'm seeing
Speaker 3: all these guys who I look up to, all these
Speaker 3: NBA players. They're like, man, what's up? We love the show?
Speaker 3: Like whatever. So it let us know that we were
Speaker 3: doing something special. And like I said, we've been blessed
Speaker 3: to all get extensions. We're gonna be doing this thing
Speaker 3: for the coming years, but really putting that show on
Speaker 3: the map. And we look at kind of traditional shows,
Speaker 3: not even necessarily as our competition, but they can't do
Speaker 3: what we do. You know, I watched Sports Center back
Speaker 3: in six.
Speaker 1: But you got a a block an ESPN show definitely
Speaker 1: not you got.
Speaker 3: To a block. You gotta B block, you gotta c block.
Speaker 1: It's a structure.
Speaker 3: We got ten minutes for this block. We will go
Speaker 3: forty five to fifty minutes hour. We will go on
Speaker 3: a topic and I'll try and keep it moving, and
Speaker 3: the chests always coming to me like oh man, you
Speaker 3: got to moderate better whatever, and it's like you need
Speaker 3: to understand the personalities that I'm dealing with because I
Speaker 3: will try to move on, and I know that they're
Speaker 3: not going to move on. If Gill got a point
Speaker 3: he want to make, if Seo I got a point
Speaker 3: he want to make, Kenyon or Brandon or Lexi or
Speaker 3: Share whoever, we're not moving on like I'm gonna try. Hey,
Speaker 3: let's talk about this topic. Now. Wait, what was that
Speaker 3: you said about whatever? And now we're going twenty more
Speaker 3: minutes on it, So we're not We don't have we
Speaker 3: have a structure like we format it like a traditional
Speaker 3: kind of sports network style. That's what I grew up
Speaker 3: and that's what I was born in when I started
Speaker 3: my career. But also knowing we have the luxury and
Speaker 3: ability that an ESPN show or a Fox show ca
Speaker 3: because we don't have a ten minute you know, we
Speaker 3: don't have to get to a commercial break. We can
Speaker 3: go hour on this thing if we want. And for me,
Speaker 3: that's the best convo. When we show up and it's
Speaker 3: something that wasn't even in the script or in that
Speaker 3: the game plan, production plan for the day, but they're
Speaker 3: passionate about it and they go thirty forty five minutes
Speaker 3: and now you look up and it's like, damn, we
Speaker 3: had three more seconds we were supposed to get to.
Speaker 3: But it's time to go because obviously, you know, somebody
Speaker 3: go pick up their kids, or I got to go
Speaker 3: to practice, or Gill got to go to one of
Speaker 3: his kids games or whatever it may be. But we
Speaker 3: don't have any rules or regulations and no constraints on it.
Speaker 3: So I'll really just give a shot out the underdog
Speaker 3: for allowing that in Gil. Like, I see how hard
Speaker 3: Gill works. So you know, I'm up till two am
Speaker 3: every day, but I know he's up. He's lurking, like
Speaker 3: he's in the Google doc. You know, I see his
Speaker 3: icon light up, or he's calling me or texting me.
Speaker 3: I go jog before the show, He'll call me. I'm
Speaker 3: on the jog with him, just having the convo with
Speaker 3: the hefo's in. He were going over everything. So just
Speaker 3: the amount of dedication, preparation and work that he puts in,
Speaker 3: and I think we all feed off that, from the
Speaker 3: talent to the crew, and I think that's why the
Speaker 3: show has been so successful.
Speaker 1: You know, and watching this.
Speaker 2: Show, even though every five minutes, I'm like such as
Speaker 2: such as crazy.
Speaker 1: What I love about is is the authenticity.
Speaker 2: As you mentioned before, you know, you've had players that
Speaker 2: gave you positive feedback, and because y'all keep.
Speaker 1: It so real, I imagine you've gotten the opposite because
Speaker 1: y'all do keep it really real.
Speaker 2: So how what are some of the I guess memorable
Speaker 2: maybe encounters or feedback negative feedback that you've gotten from players?
Speaker 3: There is again, like you said, we keep it very real.
Speaker 3: There are certain cities now that I feel like we
Speaker 3: are not allowed to pull up to, not me like
Speaker 3: you're probably good, like Detroit City.
Speaker 1: I know as a native Detroiter, I was like, why
Speaker 1: always coming?
Speaker 3: And the thing you got to understand about Gil is
Speaker 3: Gil is relentless, right, so if somebody comes to him, like,
Speaker 3: he's not going to back off, like you've seen it
Speaker 3: kind of some of the personal beefs that he may have,
Speaker 3: like he's never gonna end it, Like he like that's
Speaker 3: just not in his round, right, Yeah, that's just not
Speaker 3: in his makeup. And like you know, I got a
Speaker 3: ton of respect for Kwame, and there will be times
Speaker 3: on the show I know he's trying to get there
Speaker 3: and it's like but it don't matter or what I say,
Speaker 3: Like I'm trying to avoid it, and it's like all right,
Speaker 3: go ahead. He'll say, yeah, I had this da or whatever,
Speaker 3: like y'all, I know where you're going with this right now,
Speaker 3: and it's like I don't want no beef with that.
Speaker 3: Like I gotta live here too. I tell them all
Speaker 3: the time. I got to walk around these places too,
Speaker 3: and I ain't trying to you know. I love y'all.
Speaker 3: Like we had a situation he talked about. So he
Speaker 3: had said something to when Isaiah Stewart that came out
Speaker 3: after lebron Gil posts this message on Instagram and basically
Speaker 3: just saying like you can't do that, like you gotta
Speaker 3: like you know what I mean, this is this is
Speaker 3: the Golden Boy of the league. You gotta pretend, pretend fight,
Speaker 3: you can do all that stuff, but like, don't go
Speaker 3: at him. So we were at to coma at Isaiah
Speaker 3: Thomas's charity event, the Zeken Who's there, Beef Stu Beef
Speaker 3: still see Gil, and you know you see Beef still
Speaker 3: in real life. You're just like shit, And it's kind
Speaker 3: of like, all right, it's gonna be a Busines decision
Speaker 3: right here. Because it was like me and Rashad a
Speaker 3: couple of us standing there and it's like, you know
Speaker 3: and believe me, like I have hands, I know how
Speaker 3: to fight a little bit, but I'm gonna get my
Speaker 3: ass whipped. And you know, I'm also a realistic I.
Speaker 1: Mean, you got reached og like you're you're not a
Speaker 1: small person.
Speaker 3: But seeing him and it's like it's like fuck all right,
Speaker 3: But they kind of talk it out and guilt. But
Speaker 3: after that, like Gil, don't let it stop. He goes
Speaker 3: and makes videos talking about he goes and whatever. Like
Speaker 3: Gil such a creative and content Maven that anything he
Speaker 3: sees an opportunity to address or talk about, he's gonna
Speaker 3: keep it real on anything. But yes, we have had
Speaker 3: to answer your question long win it. I know I
Speaker 3: speak a lot, but have had several players who let
Speaker 3: it be known. We have had several players who let
Speaker 3: it be known, either via social media or in real life,
Speaker 3: that they're not necessarily fucking with the views that are
Speaker 3: expressed on the show. You know, I walk around and
Speaker 3: it's funny because I got to walk around now, like
Speaker 3: if I'm at Summer League or All Star weekend or
Speaker 3: these type of things, see a guy and be like, damn,
Speaker 3: did somebody come at him. No, Okay, we're good. What up?
Speaker 3: How you doing right?
Speaker 1: Like, did we say something that it's never me?
Speaker 3: But yeah, guys like guys will you'll see them kind
Speaker 3: of lurking in the comments of videos. Obviously. Brandon Jennings
Speaker 3: assessed the things about Jason Tatum recently that getting a
Speaker 3: response and Tatum's trainer and Tatum coming at him directly
Speaker 3: and indirectly, and it's like, yeah, but that's not everybody
Speaker 3: on the couch. But ultimately, somebody's gotta beef with you nobody. Yeah,
Speaker 3: somebody's rocking with him.
Speaker 2: This person is in a weird way though. Do you
Speaker 2: take it as a compliment, Yeah, for sure, Yeah, that
Speaker 2: they see it, but that they see it a care
Speaker 2: about what you said enough to respond.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think for us, we're really starting to
Speaker 3: see when we first started people kind of just s
Speaker 3: thumb their nose at us. We don't give a shit
Speaker 3: about this show. It's not gonna be nothing to now
Speaker 3: where we're on ESPN, we're on these clips. Like Guil
Speaker 3: recently had his son Elijah, announced his college commitment to
Speaker 3: USC much to my disappointment. You know, I was working
Speaker 3: the pill trying to get him over you see, like
Speaker 3: a non acessarty mail love Elijah, super happy for him.
Speaker 3: But watching Sports Center and it's like that's like the
Speaker 3: G block or the end of the show they show
Speaker 3: they got to show a clip from our things. So
Speaker 3: we've started to really see the power that we possess
Speaker 3: in being kind of this new media. And now initially
Speaker 3: when we first started, like we don't have to acknowledge
Speaker 3: you guys, And now now you got to come over here, right,
Speaker 3: and now you got to look at us and respect
Speaker 3: the work we're doing and the numbers were doing and
Speaker 3: the impact we have on the culture. Like like for me,
Speaker 3: like I'm a low key dude. I stay out the way,
Speaker 3: like I coach little league, I coach youth sports, I
Speaker 3: coach high school. If you want to see me, come
Speaker 3: to the local target, you know, right around like two
Speaker 3: thirty three thirty, Like you'll see me just doing my
Speaker 3: shopping or whatever's going on. But I'm not really on
Speaker 3: the scene or in the streets, are doing any of
Speaker 3: that type of stuff. But just started to notice over
Speaker 3: the past year eighteen months, I would just like I'm
Speaker 3: at the airport one day, flying to Laxes late at night,
Speaker 3: I'm rolling to get my car out of the parking structure.
Speaker 3: I see a police officer. He got a headphone in
Speaker 3: me mugging straight faces, looking straight like I'm not gonna
Speaker 3: bother this, dude. I'm just gonna keep going by my way.
Speaker 3: He turned to look at me. He's like, y'a, I'm
Speaker 3: listening to the show right now. Like I'm like like wow,
Speaker 3: like you really just you know. I'm rolling through Philly
Speaker 3: Airport past like a gnos or a pass when they
Speaker 3: got the one with the airport chiefs stay by. All
Speaker 3: the chefs see me come through. They chopping up. Chefs
Speaker 3: say like, yo, what's up? Man? We rolled with Kim
Speaker 3: Till gives up being so crazy. I was in Sacramento
Speaker 3: for a high school tournament and he's been very obviously
Speaker 3: same way as Detroit Veru. We'll say disrespectful if you
Speaker 3: will the city. But rolling through Sacramento getting rolled up
Speaker 3: on people like yo, tell Gill stop disrespecting the city. Man.
Speaker 3: Like so just to see that even like high school kids.
Speaker 3: I coach some high schoolers and they'd be like, yo, coach,
Speaker 3: we see you on TikTok all the time. Like I
Speaker 3: don't even got TikTok. What do y'all see on there? All?
Speaker 3: We see clips from the show and this and that whatever,
Speaker 3: and it's like, why Gill do this that? So just
Speaker 3: to see the impact that it's had on basketball culture.
Speaker 3: But with that comes a lot of responsibility, right and
Speaker 3: how we move And I think we're all kind of
Speaker 3: figuring this out as we go and learning and growing
Speaker 3: from it. But if there's one thing that you know
Speaker 3: with Gil, his literal nickname, his moniker is no chill chick,
Speaker 3: and he lives that up to the fullest extent. So
Speaker 3: I don't know whatever definition of no chill you had
Speaker 3: in your brain, but he's gonna take it to another
Speaker 3: level and truly have no chill.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he embodies that well.
Speaker 2: Before I let you go, I want to get you know,
Speaker 2: just talk a little bit of an NBA. I know
Speaker 2: he has been discussing Jimmy Butler in the Miami Heat.
Speaker 2: Who side are you on in that one?
Speaker 3: It flip flops? Yeah? I think for me, you know,
Speaker 3: watching this whole thing play out, Jimmy's comments in the
Speaker 3: summer about you know, if he was healthy, they could
Speaker 3: have beat the Celtics or Nicks, And for me, always
Speaker 3: being pro athlete, pro player, pro player empowerment. You know,
Speaker 3: pat Riley told him to keep his mouth shut. There's
Speaker 3: just words you hear, you know, like we have to
Speaker 3: operate in corporate spaces and we have to move a
Speaker 3: certain way, but we will snap it. Like there's phrasingg
Speaker 3: show what two finals with these rosters. I'm just saying,
Speaker 3: like all this shit I've done here, like you're not
Speaker 3: gonna reward me for that? And to pat Riley, the godfather,
Speaker 3: that he'd have never been that type of franchise. So
Speaker 3: it's like, if d Wade ain't getting that, you think
Speaker 3: you're gonna get it, like let's just keep it a buck.
Speaker 3: But seeing that, but also you know, Jimmy at times
Speaker 3: has a Tennessee control, has a tendency to go a
Speaker 3: little bit too far, and I think this has happened
Speaker 3: now at several different stops that he's been in throughout
Speaker 3: his career. So you have to see both sides, but
Speaker 3: also have to recognize that this is a dude who
Speaker 3: took these rosters to two NBA finals, right, won in
Speaker 3: the bubble, won recently against the Nuggets. And if he's
Speaker 3: asking you, hey, hey, build this roster up. I want
Speaker 3: to be competitive. You've got a guy who wants to win,
Speaker 3: and you're not getting that done. You know, you strike
Speaker 3: out on Dame, you strike out on Drew Holliday, some
Speaker 3: of the other names have been out there. There comes
Speaker 3: a point where this is the league that's based on
Speaker 3: player empowerment. In the way that my contract is structured.
Speaker 3: Right now, I have a player option at the end
Speaker 3: of this season, so I can force your hand because
Speaker 3: I can either opt in and y'all want to bench
Speaker 3: me and suspend me in definitely or whatever. Cool, like
Speaker 3: I'm gonna opt in. Figure it out, like I'm gonna
Speaker 3: win this when I got fifty two mil coming. So
Speaker 3: at the end of the day, like if I got
Speaker 3: fifty two mil coming, and this is a bullshit you're
Speaker 3: trying to pull, like I can do that. But there's
Speaker 3: times too where it's like I want it from the
Speaker 3: team side, like growing up. And this is the thing
Speaker 3: I don't think a lot of people grasp. When you're
Speaker 3: playing team sports as a kid, use sports as a kid.
Speaker 3: There's not money involved. It's not business, right, Like you're
Speaker 3: all playing for love of the game to attain a
Speaker 3: certain goal. Now, when business gets involved. It's a lot different,
Speaker 3: especially talking about millions and millions of dollars dues in
Speaker 3: the twilight of their career. That's maybe the last contract
Speaker 3: that they're able to get, and they don't feel like
Speaker 3: they're getting the love from the franchise. And this is
Speaker 3: a discussion that I've had with Gill as well, because
Speaker 3: it impacts legacy, it impacts how you talk about these dude.
Speaker 3: You talk about the goat debates and things like that,
Speaker 3: and Gil is always more lean towards the side of
Speaker 3: individual accolades because it's like, you might be a great
Speaker 3: individual player that's hamstrung from being on a bad team
Speaker 3: that's beyond your control. You may have a franchise that's
Speaker 3: in tank mode or whatever it is, but the average
Speaker 3: fan don't care about that.
Speaker 1: You get the plan, yeah, because it's your face.
Speaker 2: Because pat Riley, they just see the cameras showing him
Speaker 2: in the stands like he didn't hold it. He doesn't
Speaker 2: have to be accountable to the media after every game,
Speaker 2: but the star player does. And so it's much easier
Speaker 2: to point the dagger at the guy who you know
Speaker 2: has to answer some level of questions before the public.
Speaker 3: And you talk about like low management. You look at
Speaker 3: somebody like Kawhi. People that know know Kawhi works his
Speaker 3: ass off. Kawhi don't want to be injured, like he
Speaker 3: wants to be out there playing. And a lot of
Speaker 3: times it ain't Kawi saying I don't want to play
Speaker 3: back to backs, I don't want to play tonight. It's
Speaker 3: the team trying to protect their investment. But the team
Speaker 3: is happy to let him eat all shit for it.
Speaker 3: The team ain't gonna be like now we're the ones
Speaker 3: making them do it, like they want just the average
Speaker 3: consumer to be like, oh, he's lazy, or he he
Speaker 3: don't love the game or whatever. So there's so much
Speaker 3: now working with all these people and kind of getting
Speaker 3: their perspective with these guys do to be able to
Speaker 3: go out there and perform at the highest level. And
Speaker 3: for the longest time, it was kind of like, you know,
Speaker 3: you guys should just be happy to be here type
Speaker 3: of situation instead of well, if we're not here, this
Speaker 3: product's not good and you're not gonna watch the shit.
Speaker 3: So for me, looking at Jimmy, I kind of toil
Speaker 3: on both sides because I think about that team component,
Speaker 3: like you got guys that ultimately are dealing with this
Speaker 3: that have nothing to do with it. I think about
Speaker 3: a guy like Kevin.
Speaker 1: Love and their livelihoods are caught up into what you're doing.
Speaker 1: So there there's other part of it.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think both of them at various points
Speaker 2: have looked very unbecoming for both of them, right, And
Speaker 2: it's like, at the end of the day, you're getting
Speaker 2: paid fifty billion dollars, I'm not I do understand why
Speaker 2: you would be like, why should I give it my
Speaker 2: all when already this is what you're giving me to work?
Speaker 2: So they're both both of them are right, It's just
Speaker 2: the way that has played out I think has made
Speaker 2: them both look bad at different points.
Speaker 1: I don't think Jimmy's gonna be there that much longer anybody.
Speaker 3: Else, So get and the other problem that happens now
Speaker 3: his teams, you like, oh you want we want to
Speaker 3: this deal or that deal, And there's so much bullshit
Speaker 3: and bs that goes on from different sizes. They use
Speaker 3: their various media channels to paint the other side in
Speaker 3: the bad light. It's like, at the end of the day,
Speaker 3: he like, either you're not. This is something we talked
Speaker 3: about on the show. Was like, you have to send
Speaker 3: him home, Like so this bullshit about let him come
Speaker 3: player or whatever, why, Like you already know what it's
Speaker 3: gonna be and what time he's gonna be on, and
Speaker 3: you already know what time you're on. So get a
Speaker 3: deal done. Send him home. But then we're gonna make
Speaker 3: him play, and he's going, Okay, we've seen this before,
Speaker 3: So get the trade down. You have to take a
Speaker 3: little bit less than what you wanted, but ultimately now
Speaker 3: you'll be able to move on as a franchise and
Speaker 3: he'll be able to move on as a player and
Speaker 3: go somewhere he actually wants to be, and you can
Speaker 3: bring players in the actually want to be there.
Speaker 2: What did you make of NBA Commissioner Adam Silver talking
Speaker 2: about how much he favors ten minute quarters.
Speaker 3: He never.
Speaker 2: I thought it was a little like, huh if he
Speaker 2: had said less games, I'd be like, yes, but I
Speaker 2: know that won't happen.
Speaker 3: But in any rate, the NBA declining viewership, all those
Speaker 3: too many games or too much of this, too much
Speaker 3: of that, we're still watching. They just signed a historic
Speaker 3: media rights deal, So for all that talk, the bread
Speaker 3: is still coming in. So whatever you're talking about like
Speaker 3: people complain about it, people watch our show.
Speaker 2: I mean, do you do you buy into that though
Speaker 2: that there is some there's a legitimate ratings problems, Like
Speaker 2: I know the ratings have rebounded from where they were
Speaker 2: earlier in the season, but like, do you buy that,
Speaker 2: like there is some part of this NBA product that
Speaker 2: is now distasteful for fans.
Speaker 3: I think people need to adjust to the times. Right
Speaker 3: when I was growing up, we had TV. That was
Speaker 3: the only way that we could watch games. I have
Speaker 3: little brothers who can watch something on their TV, can
Speaker 3: watch something on their phone, and some on their computer,
Speaker 3: all three in unison and know everything that's going on
Speaker 3: on all three things. And I'm just sitting here looking
Speaker 3: like how do you how do you know what's going
Speaker 3: on there? And there and boom. So people consume media.
Speaker 3: Different consumption happens a k. Like I said, all my
Speaker 3: kids I coached in high school, they talk TikTok. I'm
Speaker 3: not on TikTok, but they see all the shit from
Speaker 3: the show on TikTok. I don't know how they see it.
Speaker 3: I don't know what clips they're watching or whatever. So
Speaker 3: we have to just kind of shifting again, like I said,
Speaker 3: if you're signing that deal now, it would be scary
Speaker 3: is if like, oh, the deal went down, the numbers
Speaker 3: went down, the bread went down, you got players earning
Speaker 3: more money than ever before. I do at the highest level,
Speaker 3: I respect those guys for getting their bag, but then
Speaker 3: you look at guys at the lowest level, like hopefully
Speaker 3: their break can come up to it. It has been
Speaker 3: a huge seismic shift from the guys at the top
Speaker 3: taking all the bread and kind of the rest of
Speaker 3: the league kind of left the swander. But at the
Speaker 3: end of the day, those are the guys who make decision.
Speaker 3: We see it in the country as it is right now,
Speaker 3: you got the most bread, We're doing everything, We're falling
Speaker 3: in line with what you want. And that's just what
Speaker 3: it is, like, you know, like we're basically being controlled
Speaker 3: by oligarchs and billionaires. Now billionaire says, hey, we don't
Speaker 3: need we don't need all these FAA people, we don't
Speaker 3: need all this, and that that's just what it is.
Speaker 3: Some fucks up. Oh it was diversity's fault. Huh, everybody
Speaker 3: was white what But it could.
Speaker 2: Have been listening to Gil because you talked about how
Speaker 2: other shows use the clip. The clip I used that
Speaker 2: I did a whole thing about the state of American
Speaker 2: basketball on this show is him saying they need to
Speaker 2: kick the foreigners out the game.
Speaker 3: But he was just saying that in guilt, like just
Speaker 3: like he tried to get a rise out of the table.
Speaker 1: I understood the point he was trying to make.
Speaker 2: But to that point is that like it has become
Speaker 2: a more European style of game, Like there's just no,
Speaker 2: there's no question about it, that it has become that.
Speaker 2: I don't know we can we can't kick all the
Speaker 2: warders out of the game, obviously, but there is a
Speaker 2: larger commentary about what the state of American basketball actually is.
Speaker 3: And they talked that shit. And I got to live
Speaker 3: in Italy as a kid and see how those programs work.
Speaker 3: I think we can do a lot at the grassroots level, yes,
Speaker 3: to improve these things.
Speaker 1: Their youth coach, so you see.
Speaker 3: I'm doing it. Yeah, like we're getting blieve me coach
Speaker 3: is my nickname. We're gonna get you right, like we're
Speaker 3: gonna approach it. But yeah, you seeing what those guys
Speaker 3: come up with. But it is a global game, you know.
Speaker 3: You talk about back to the viewership, thing real quick. China,
Speaker 3: there what four or five hundred million people are watching
Speaker 3: in the NBA. So the NBA has you know, we
Speaker 3: talk about who's gonna be the next face or whatever. Yeah,
Speaker 3: there's an American demographic because this is the home nation
Speaker 3: of the sport, if you will. But this is a
Speaker 3: global game. So the end of the day, and I
Speaker 3: always make this point to people, like if you're making
Speaker 3: a billion dollars in China and zero dollars in America,
Speaker 3: that's still a billion dollars. Like I'm not tripping. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean, I wish I was making more bread out here,
Speaker 3: but I'll take that billion over here and still, you know,
Speaker 3: live the life that I want to live. So ultimately,
Speaker 3: you want everybody to be watching. But it's not like
Speaker 3: this isn't the second or third biggest sport on the planet. Right.
Speaker 3: You don't have hundreds of millions of people playing this
Speaker 3: sport because you're not doing a good enough job promoting it.
Speaker 3: But those are things that I think the league is
Speaker 3: going to need to address. It back to the Adam
Speaker 3: Silver thing, like you cut it from twelve minutes to
Speaker 3: ten minutes, Now, what happens to those you know, the tenth, eleven,
Speaker 3: twelfth guy on that roster because the superstar is still
Speaker 3: playing the same amount of minutes. Like, we ain't coming
Speaker 3: off of any of these minutes, and you're looking at
Speaker 3: the Olympics and all that and all I want a
Speaker 3: two hour window.
Speaker 1: It's like, but I don't think pace of the game
Speaker 1: is what people have a problem with.
Speaker 2: Like Baseball, it was a pace shoot for a long time,
Speaker 2: and they've done a bunch of different teams.
Speaker 3: Hey, the pitch clock. I go to Dodgors game.
Speaker 2: Now, that's what I'm saying they had that problem. Pace
Speaker 2: is not the issue in the NBA. I think it's
Speaker 2: just the three point. The amount of three point shooting
Speaker 2: is wearing on people. But again I think that ebbs.
Speaker 3: And flows, like you know, too many brocast jumpers taking three,
Speaker 3: Like everybody don't get to shoot threes level.
Speaker 2: This is all y'all like, And you know, as somebody
Speaker 2: who much liked you grew up watching basketball a certain way. Man,
Speaker 2: it's still it drives me crazy when it's a three
Speaker 2: on one, you right at the hoop and you kick
Speaker 2: it out, like it just drives me fucking crazy.
Speaker 3: And a lot of people will blame Steph for that.
Speaker 3: And this is what I would say, Yes, you have
Speaker 3: to blame step but you have to blame the people
Speaker 3: that are trying to follow in steps footsteps, because I've
Speaker 3: seen Steph work out. Yeah, I've seen the amount of
Speaker 3: work he puts in. We were in Baltimore, we got
Speaker 3: the interview him. He was doing an under armoured thing
Speaker 3: and this was the workout he was doing for the
Speaker 3: general public. Thirty forty five minutes, got about three hundred
Speaker 3: shots up, but just not stopping intense and then he
Speaker 3: went and did a two hour workout after that.
Speaker 1: Like, but you don't put that work in right, and
Speaker 1: you want to chuck the same amount because I.
Speaker 3: See it at the lower levels now and it's like
Speaker 3: you are not Steph, right, I know you've seen it.
Speaker 3: Just like I'm not mjury. I can wear the knee
Speaker 3: braces and i can wear the armband. I'm not junky
Speaker 3: from the free throw line. So get your ass in
Speaker 3: the post and go hit them with these jump hugs
Speaker 3: real quick. But so that's ultimate because they blame Steph
Speaker 3: and like you blame Steph because that's the pinnacle, that's
Speaker 3: what everybody wants to get to. But the reality is
Speaker 3: you don't put the work in. So you're not putting
Speaker 3: the work in, like Steph, go get your ass inside
Speaker 3: this three point line and get an easier bucket.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, God.
Speaker 2: Bless RP to the mid range game. Unfortunately, these guys
Speaker 2: only know either dunk or shoot a three shot.
Speaker 3: He keeping it keeping none of.
Speaker 1: These threes, giving me hope.
Speaker 2: All right, Well, final question is a question, or I
Speaker 2: should say, the final question is usually what I call
Speaker 2: the messy question question. We're gonna get in some trouble, Josiah.
Speaker 3: Here we go. Well, all right, when I get your
Speaker 3: trouble every day.
Speaker 2: So now I feel like this this will not even
Speaker 2: remotely come close to get in on daily on a
Speaker 2: daily basis when you do Gills Arena. My messy question
Speaker 2: is this, of all of your wonderful you know co
Speaker 2: stars on your show on Gills Arena, who consistently makes
Speaker 2: the least amount of sense.
Speaker 3: That's a tough one. I'm gonna say Swaggy, but I
Speaker 3: know a lot of people will say Rashad mckam's aka
Speaker 3: Cemetery Larry, But Rashot if you really listen to what
Speaker 3: he's saying, it's like, okay, like swaggy like he will
Speaker 3: tweet some shit and it's like, we'll have to talk
Speaker 3: about this on the show, and I don't know how
Speaker 3: you defend this, but he just like stream of thought
Speaker 3: tweeting and he'll go out there. But it's funny, like
Speaker 3: for me, I know all their personalities and that dynamics
Speaker 3: so well, so all that shit makes sense to me.
Speaker 3: And you know, me and Gil talk about this a
Speaker 3: lot at a high level. You need that, right, That's
Speaker 3: what makes a show good. You can't have everybody on
Speaker 3: the show agreeing with each other saying the same thing.
Speaker 3: People pretend like they want that they're not gonna watch
Speaker 3: like you need again the joker that gives bad man,
Speaker 3: Oh you need a I mean, it just is what
Speaker 3: it is. And we're closer than our WWE because I
Speaker 3: will watch in real time, two people will be beefing,
Speaker 3: somebody will join in and tag team the one person,
Speaker 3: but then switch up midway and then they'll start tag
Speaker 3: team and the other person and somebody else will jump in.
Speaker 3: It come it's like royal rumbles. So it's crazy to
Speaker 3: watch it at real time because it can it all
Speaker 3: takes as a sentence or a word or a thought
Speaker 3: or whatever. Just wait a minute, like and then they
Speaker 3: just go at each other. But you know you're trying
Speaker 3: to give me in trouble that that is a very
Speaker 3: messy question. I did a very political job of steering
Speaker 3: away from it. Didn't answer. I've been watching a lot
Speaker 3: of CNN lately, so I know how to word salad
Speaker 3: is now my specialty.
Speaker 1: Well, you did a good job. And before I forget,
Speaker 1: want to mention Memes of Nightmares right.
Speaker 3: What you wrong? I just want to tell the people.
Speaker 3: So Memes and Nightmares coming out on Hulu is a
Speaker 3: project I did with spring Hill and Escaping Starry. Shout
Speaker 3: out to Pepsi Coo, preveyor of Delicious Beverages. But you
Speaker 3: actually made a cameo.
Speaker 1: You better sell that product.
Speaker 3: I'm getting my marketing bag right. Look, people, I just
Speaker 3: want you guys to know sometimes you're gonna have to
Speaker 3: do some marketing stuff. You really better do your best
Speaker 3: to do it right. All right, I like beverages. You know.
Speaker 2: You did not ask my opinion before I asked you
Speaker 2: that question. Sorry is legitimate, and I'm.
Speaker 3: Sorry He's gonna listen to this and be like, yes
Speaker 3: we are and they are. I appreciate all the beverage
Speaker 3: if you sent to the crib. But yeah, so we
Speaker 3: did a film just kind of taking a deep look
Speaker 3: at at sports media culture, basketball media culture, really NBA Twitter,
Speaker 3: back when Twitter was Twitter and now whatever it is,
Speaker 3: but just the impact that it has at every level
Speaker 3: of human being. You look at myself, I'm kind of
Speaker 3: a testament to what NBA Twitter has been able to
Speaker 3: provide with just a dude out there, you know, mean
Speaker 3: boy or whatever people wanted to call it. And now
Speaker 3: I'm literally hosting the TV show with Gilbert Areenas, are
Speaker 3: coaching a show with Gilbert Arenas on digital platforms like
Speaker 3: but so many people I know in that space that
Speaker 3: have been able to leverage social to create opportunities for themselves,
Speaker 3: create jobs for themselves. And this is the future the frontier.
Speaker 3: And you are kind enough to make a cameo in
Speaker 3: the project. So when you reach out to me to
Speaker 3: do this, you were like, Yo, we can do something.
Speaker 3: I'm like, nah, fuck that you came and pulled up
Speaker 3: And then I thing you ain't doing no zoom for
Speaker 3: that shit. You took time out of your schedule. So
Speaker 3: I'm gonna come over to Hill just non traffic hour. Please.
Speaker 3: You know we live in LA so you know, depending
Speaker 3: off it's noon or four, that's like a you know,
Speaker 3: that could be a forty minute driver or four hour drive.
Speaker 1: I've ever done that to you. That's why I was like,
Speaker 1: you just let me know what's your time windows.
Speaker 3: And I got you. But I appreciate you for giving
Speaker 3: me the opportunity to come on here again. That's Memes
Speaker 3: the Nightmares coming out February twentieth, this Thursday, February twenty
Speaker 3: th Yep, we will be.
Speaker 1: Locked and loaded.
Speaker 3: You got a movie, yes, I know.
Speaker 1: I can't wait to see.
Speaker 2: It's so happy for all of your success and everybody
Speaker 2: keep watching, gils A Reena, thank you, Josef.
Speaker 3: Appreciate you.
Speaker 1: One more segment to go, and you guys know what
Speaker 1: that means.
Speaker 2: I got questions to answer up next, your viewer slash
Speaker 2: listener questions and I have plenty of answers coming up
Speaker 2: next on the final segment of Spotatives.
Speaker 1: All right, y'all know what time it is. It's time
Speaker 1: for your questions.
Speaker 2: And this week's question comes from Aaron, who asked her
Speaker 2: question via email. Aarin writes, my question for you is
Speaker 2: this I listen to women's sports podcasts.
Speaker 1: The gist of it. This is one of the podcasts.
Speaker 2: Apparently she listens to the gist of It's audience is
Speaker 2: women who happen to like sports, regardless of women's level
Speaker 2: of sports or the gender of sports. The gist breaks
Speaker 2: down to every level. I listen to Good Game with
Speaker 2: Sarah Spain. Her audience is anyone who wants to know
Speaker 2: about women's sports, any women's sports, on any topic, the
Speaker 2: business case of women's sports. Audience about why it matters
Speaker 2: to invest in women's sports, not as a charity, but
Speaker 2: because it's financially smart.
Speaker 1: Why am I explaining this to you?
Speaker 2: Obviously there's individual sports podcasts the PWHL. My question is this,
Speaker 2: what audience's topics do you think are missing in women's
Speaker 2: sports areas? If you could add to your to do
Speaker 2: list or your listening list, what would you want next?
Speaker 2: Thank you for fighting the good fight. Okay, Aaron, So
Speaker 2: I'd like to see more podcasts to women just kind
Speaker 2: of talking shit about sports, and not just about women's sports,
Speaker 2: but all sports. For example, Rappers Cam and Mace they
Speaker 2: have a sports podcast or a digital show.
Speaker 1: It's called it Is What It is Now?
Speaker 2: These are two guys who just love sports, and they
Speaker 2: talk their own shit about sports in their own unique way.
Speaker 2: Bloorilla is a big sports fan. Taraji Pinca is a
Speaker 2: big sports fan. I know Taraji isn't a rapper, but
Speaker 2: I'm here for two women in entertainment just talking about sports.
Speaker 1: I'd love to see a female version of Pat McAfee.
Speaker 2: Now, I don't mean in terms of personality type, with
Speaker 2: someone who can create a loose environment where she's driving
Speaker 2: the show with her opinion, in the company of her
Speaker 2: homegirls or a combination of her homegirls and homeboys. You
Speaker 2: know who I would give a show to in a minute.
Speaker 2: That's like that Sidney Colson, who now plays with the
Speaker 2: Indiana Fever. Sidney is a huge personality. She's arguably the
Speaker 2: funniest woman in the WNBA. I build a show around
Speaker 2: her in a minute, but I have her going around
Speaker 2: pulling pranks on people as part.
Speaker 1: Of the show.
Speaker 2: Don't steal my idea, Gilbert aretas though he also has
Speaker 2: a show, Gil's Areta. It's just him and his homies,
Speaker 2: former players Nick Young, Jimmy Martin, Cheryl Swoops, and all
Speaker 2: they do is arguing bullshit. I want to see more
Speaker 2: women in these media spaces just talking shit, just bullshit
Speaker 2: and just telling stories and just kicking it. That's the
Speaker 2: content I want to see. Thank you Erin for your question. Now,
Speaker 2: if you have a question for me, you can hit
Speaker 2: me up on social media or email.
Speaker 1: I'm at jamail.
Speaker 2: He'll across all social media platforms, Twitter, Instagram, blue Sky, Threads,
Speaker 2: and I recently joined fan base, so check me out there.
Speaker 2: Please use the hashtags politics. You also have the option
Speaker 2: of emailing me as Politics twenty twenty four at gmail
Speaker 2: dot com. You can also send me a video of
Speaker 2: your question, but please make sure it's thirty seconds or less.
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Speaker 1: Politics is spelled spo l tict.
Speaker 2: A new episode of Spolitics drops every Thursday on iHeart
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Speaker 2: where sports and politics don't just mix, they matter. Politics
Speaker 2: is the production of iHeart Podcasts and The Unbothered Network.
Speaker 2: I'm your host Jamel Hill. Executive producer is Taylor Chakoigne.
Speaker 2: Lucas Hymen is head of audio and executive producer. Original
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