1 00:00:00,800 --> 00:00:04,040 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney, alongside 2 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:06,920 Speaker 1: my co host Matt Miller. Every business day we bring 3 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 1: you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, along 4 00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:15,600 Speaker 1: with essential market moving news. Find the Bloomberg Markets Podcast 5 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:18,439 Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, and 6 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:22,599 Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. Now, I'm looking at 7 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:25,960 Speaker 1: the ten year yield here one point seven one. There's 8 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:28,480 Speaker 1: a lot of folks out there saying, hey, by year endy, 9 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 1: you need to be thinking about a two percent ten uere, 10 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:34,519 Speaker 1: maybe even at two and a quarter percent tenure. Uh 11 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:36,760 Speaker 1: in you know, the question is, you know, in the space, 12 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:39,239 Speaker 1: in the face of what we're seeing is there's tremendous 13 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:41,960 Speaker 1: physical stimulus looks like it's coming down the pipe with 14 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:46,599 Speaker 1: President Biden's plan. Really, where do rates go? Let's check 15 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 1: in with Laird Landman. He's a co director for fixed 16 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:53,240 Speaker 1: income at tc W. Little firm out in Los Angeles 17 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:56,280 Speaker 1: for about two thirty five billion with a B and 18 00:00:56,400 --> 00:00:58,959 Speaker 1: assets under management. Laird, thanks so much for joining us here. 19 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:01,160 Speaker 1: Love to get your your thoughts here. We had a 20 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:04,639 Speaker 1: few weeks ago the tenure spiked one point six percent. 21 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:08,840 Speaker 1: That got people's attention. We've drifted higher here. What's your 22 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:11,560 Speaker 1: view of kind of where you think, uh, these treasury 23 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:15,400 Speaker 1: rates go. Well, certainly we seem to be biased to 24 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 1: going higher here, but I do think we're reaching levels 25 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 1: as we approach two percent, where it's probably a reasonable 26 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 1: point you're thinking about getting exposure uh to rates if 27 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:28,200 Speaker 1: you think about the amount of debt that we're going 28 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:31,080 Speaker 1: to be issuing, which is I think pretty topical today 29 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:33,479 Speaker 1: as we talked about, you know, how this plan will 30 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:38,320 Speaker 1: be financed, the Biden spending plan. Um, there certainly will 31 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:42,839 Speaker 1: be I think a desire to keep rates low uh 32 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:44,840 Speaker 1: in the US because you're gonna have to pay for 33 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 1: this over many many years. So if there's that demand 34 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:52,880 Speaker 1: out there, what's been happening in the seven year auctions 35 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:56,440 Speaker 1: this month and last month, Well, I don't think there's 36 00:01:56,480 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 1: a demand for the rates. You're seeing foreign investors pulled back. 37 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:03,080 Speaker 1: I think the demand right now is being filled by 38 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 1: the central banks. What I was suggesting was that I 39 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 1: do think that rates will hit a point around two percent, 40 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 1: maybe a little bit above that, where you're gonna be 41 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:14,239 Speaker 1: want to want to get exposure to them because over 42 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 1: the long term. If you believe our central bank, if 43 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:20,640 Speaker 1: you believe they're not going to overreact to short term 44 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:25,919 Speaker 1: spikes uh in inflation numbers uh. And that's an I UM, 45 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 1: then I think you probably look at the long term 46 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:31,120 Speaker 1: and those will be pretty good long term value. Do 47 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:36,079 Speaker 1: you believe them? Do I believe them? Uh? I think 48 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 1: that they're going to have a real, real difficult time 49 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 1: reversing this policy. I mean, we're living today in a 50 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 1: world that is the mirror image of there's excessive access 51 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 1: reserves around, and we're seeing that reflected in repo rates 52 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:51,080 Speaker 1: and short term rates. I think a hundred and five 53 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:54,480 Speaker 1: billion dollars roughly was parked today in the FEDS reverse 54 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:58,520 Speaker 1: repo program at earning a whopping zero percent um. And 55 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 1: you might remember when they tried to taper, what you 56 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 1: had was the exact opposite. You had excess reserves going down, 57 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 1: you had repro rate spiking in the marketplace. So I 58 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 1: think they have a great deal of difficulty, despite their rhetoric, 59 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:14,960 Speaker 1: in reversing this policy. So I do tend to believe 60 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:18,840 Speaker 1: that they're gonna They're gonna keep QUI going uh, and 61 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:21,240 Speaker 1: they're probably going to keep rates low even if you 62 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:25,840 Speaker 1: do see, uh, these supply um channel issues which are 63 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:28,640 Speaker 1: going to be exacerbated by the Biden plan most likely 64 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 1: raise CPI numbers in the short term. All right, Larry, Larry, 65 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 1: if you do think, um, the Fed wants to keep 66 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:40,080 Speaker 1: rates lower for longer, where are you and your teams 67 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:44,200 Speaker 1: at TCW spending your time now looking for opportunities? Well, 68 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 1: we've been short on the duration side in terms of 69 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 1: our interest rate exposure for quite a while. Um, we've 70 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 1: been gradually as rates have gone up, cost averaging our 71 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 1: durations higher, which is part of our our fundamental value 72 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 1: based philosophy. So uh, if you if you if you 73 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 1: don't like something at one cent, when it gets to 74 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 1: two percent, you might like it a little bit more. Um. Likewise, Uh, 75 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:08,200 Speaker 1: the Federal Reserve is generating what I would describe as 76 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:11,040 Speaker 1: a bit of a free lunch in the forward market 77 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 1: for mortgages, the t b A market h so TCW 78 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:17,720 Speaker 1: has found great value there. You're picking up anywhere from 79 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 1: seventy to a hundred basis points of additional yield by 80 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 1: rolling keb as right now. And that's really generated by 81 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 1: that arbitrage is generated by the Federal reserves. Desire to 82 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:31,960 Speaker 1: continue to buy mortgages over time. So we saw this 83 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:34,560 Speaker 1: in q E one, we saw it in QUE two, UH, 84 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 1: and so why not in QUI wherever we are today, UH, 85 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 1: continue to take that free lunch that they're providing. Does 86 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:45,600 Speaker 1: QUI continue on forever? Well? I don't think it continues 87 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 1: on forever, But I think that the Central Bank, as 88 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:51,119 Speaker 1: I said, is going to have a great deal of trouble. Uh. 89 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:52,839 Speaker 1: You know, I think about the ship in this US 90 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 1: canal in terms of trying to turn around. I think 91 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 1: you have a lot of trouble freeing this barge uh 92 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 1: from the sand uh in turning it around. So I 93 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 1: think that this is going to exist for quite a while. 94 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 1: The FED believes that the lessons that they learned from 95 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:09,320 Speaker 1: the past programs is they didn't go big enough for 96 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:12,120 Speaker 1: long enough. So I think, you know, if you believe 97 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:15,360 Speaker 1: that that was their conclusion, um, you have to believe 98 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 1: that this is going to continue into next year. So 99 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 1: I think for the foreseeable future, this is one of 100 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:24,560 Speaker 1: the most attractive trades out there. He learn Let me 101 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:27,039 Speaker 1: about thirty seconds here, love to get your thoughts on 102 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 1: credit quality as you look out across the vast portfolio 103 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 1: Trust Company of the West. Are we seeing cracks in 104 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 1: credit quality? It doesn't appear to be. No. I think 105 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:39,239 Speaker 1: in this environment where the markets are wide open and 106 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 1: you can bring as many spacks as you want an 107 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 1: issue equity, um, I think it's hard to see the 108 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 1: cracks developing. There's certainly the foundation for those cracks to 109 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:51,280 Speaker 1: develop is occurring with the over leveraging that's that's going on. 110 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:54,240 Speaker 1: But you know, our our our our corporate team is 111 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:56,680 Speaker 1: describing this is right now. We're in the dash for 112 00:05:56,760 --> 00:06:00,279 Speaker 1: trash phase. So everyone's just trying to buy as much oldest, 113 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 1: say Kennon, and ignore credit quality. And so this is 114 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 1: a time when prudent investors want to start being becoming 115 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 1: a little bit a little bit careful. All right, great 116 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 1: insight from you, Laird, and I hope we can get 117 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:13,600 Speaker 1: you back on the program again because it's been wonderful 118 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 1: talking to you. Laird Landman is the co director for 119 00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 1: Fixed Income at the Trust Company of the West. At 120 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 1: tc W A I would say, a famed name in 121 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 1: terms of fixed income. So it's great to hear from impol. Yeah, 122 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:28,160 Speaker 1: when you go at to Los Angeles to visit investors, 123 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 1: as I did, for close to thirty years. Capital Group 124 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:34,160 Speaker 1: and tc W are your anchor meetings. Those are the 125 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:37,040 Speaker 1: ones you got to see. Absolutely cool then that we 126 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 1: get to talk to him, and I was bringing Nathan 127 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:43,039 Speaker 1: chet He is the chief economist and head of macro 128 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 1: research for PGIM fixed Income. They have basically a trillion 129 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:49,680 Speaker 1: dollars under management. But he also served as the Under 130 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:53,360 Speaker 1: Secretary of the U. S. Treasury for International Affairs under 131 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 1: President Obama. So basically, um, he has the chops to talk. Uh. 132 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 1: This Iiden's spending plan. Nathan, thanks so much for joining us. 133 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 1: What do you think about the two point to five 134 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 1: trillion dollar plan? Is it enough? Well? I think it 135 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 1: is a significant step forward. What's clear is that the 136 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:23,920 Speaker 1: country has a very substantial infrastructure by deficit that over 137 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 1: uh the last let's say ten or fifteen years, there's 138 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 1: been broad agreement amongst Republicans and Democrats that we needed 139 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:36,800 Speaker 1: to do more on infrastructure, but they just weren't able 140 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 1: to find a formula to get it done. And it 141 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 1: looks like that the Joe Biden, notwithstanding is very narrow 142 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 1: majorities in Congress, is finding a formula and uh putting 143 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 1: forward a significant package, whether it goes all the way 144 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:57,440 Speaker 1: to addressing our infrastructure needs. I doubt it, but it's 145 00:07:57,480 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 1: certainly a significant step forward. So two point two five trillion, 146 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 1: We've we've heard numbers that were even higher than that, 147 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:06,559 Speaker 1: but again, this seems to be a number that maybe 148 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 1: you can get some support here, Nathan, What is this 149 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 1: a fiscal stimulus of this magnitude? What does it mean 150 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:18,320 Speaker 1: for your economic outlook? So? I think an important point 151 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 1: to bear in mind is that, unlike the stimulus that 152 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:26,120 Speaker 1: was passed earlier this year at one point nine trillion, 153 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 1: this two and a quarter trillion is likely to be 154 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 1: phased quite evenly over a number of years. The estimates 155 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:37,520 Speaker 1: I've heard is UH up to up to eight years. 156 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 1: So it's a more gradual kind of effect on the 157 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:45,800 Speaker 1: demand side. Now, if a program like this works, it 158 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 1: will have a little bit of lift on demand, but 159 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:52,160 Speaker 1: it should also help make the supply side of the 160 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:57,440 Speaker 1: economy more efficient and could UH could have UH some 161 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:03,679 Speaker 1: imprint in terms of raising potential growth and UH the 162 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:09,120 Speaker 1: economy's capacity to be able to produce. So it is 163 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:12,920 Speaker 1: an eight year plan. Six and twenty billion goes to transportation, 164 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 1: SID fifty billion for clean water, high speed broadband, things 165 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 1: that make your life easier at home or safer acceptedly 166 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:27,720 Speaker 1: safe billion for American manufacturing, of which a hundred eighty 167 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 1: billion UH is said to be the biggest non defense 168 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 1: research and development program on record, and four hundred billion 169 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 1: to go for more care to the elderly and the disabled. 170 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:44,040 Speaker 1: What's next, what's left to do? Nathan? Well, my sense 171 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:48,840 Speaker 1: is that there will be likely another package that the 172 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:52,200 Speaker 1: administration is going to put forward that is going to 173 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 1: be more focused on uh, domestic spending, more social kind 174 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 1: of Paul, let's see, and I think there were likely 175 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 1: to see a focus on education, on childcare, and other 176 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:13,439 Speaker 1: other kinds of spending, perhaps healthcare as well, that the 177 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:18,960 Speaker 1: administration will view as important steps in investing in people 178 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:23,720 Speaker 1: and helping to make the population more productive. So I 179 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 1: think that that is that's the next the next chapter 180 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:31,319 Speaker 1: in what Biden is likely to be announcing. All Right, Nathan, 181 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:34,360 Speaker 1: somebody's got to pay for all these spending programs, as 182 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:37,679 Speaker 1: Matches laid out. Talk to us about the the tax 183 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 1: policy of the tax potential changes in tax policy of 184 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:46,160 Speaker 1: the Biden administration. Well, I think the tax side of 185 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:52,440 Speaker 1: this is likely to be extremely controversial. First of all, 186 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:56,640 Speaker 1: Mitch McConnell and the Republicans have made clear that they 187 00:10:56,640 --> 00:11:00,560 Speaker 1: will not vote for any tax increases. So to the 188 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 1: extent that the tax increases are included, and I think 189 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 1: they will be, it means that Democrats are going to 190 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:10,840 Speaker 1: have to do it on their own and via reconciliation. Now, 191 00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 1: I think within the Democratic Party, a increase in the 192 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:19,600 Speaker 1: corporate tax rate from twenty one percent. Maybe they won't 193 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:23,160 Speaker 1: get all the way to twenty eight percent, but maybe 194 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:28,199 Speaker 1: twenty is something that Democrats will will sign on to. 195 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:33,319 Speaker 1: Nathan later, Nathan, as someone who worked in government, why 196 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:37,280 Speaker 1: can't they just try to shut loopholes and get rid 197 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:40,280 Speaker 1: of deductions? I mean, everybody says the answer is lawyers 198 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:42,960 Speaker 1: and lobbyists. Why not go after that and try and 199 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:46,520 Speaker 1: get more money out of you know, what we already 200 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:50,480 Speaker 1: should be paying. I think that there are broadly speaking, 201 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 1: two ways to do that, and I think that uh 202 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:58,240 Speaker 1: various proposals from the Biden administration are likely to pursue 203 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 1: both of them. One is to improve the quality of 204 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 1: enforcement of our existing tax laws. So are people dodging 205 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:10,800 Speaker 1: the expectations of what's already on the books, and they're 206 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:17,040 Speaker 1: allocating they will allocate likely substantial sums UH to support 207 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:20,599 Speaker 1: the I R S in its in its enforcement efforts. 208 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:23,880 Speaker 1: The second is to address some of these loopholes that 209 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:27,200 Speaker 1: are perceived as unfair, and I think that we will 210 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:31,120 Speaker 1: see them take those steps. And those are also measures 211 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:34,440 Speaker 1: that will be quite popular amongst Democrats and frankly amongst 212 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:38,080 Speaker 1: some Republicans as well. Right, hey, Nathan, thanks so much 213 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 1: for joining us here. We really appreciate your thoughts. Nathan Sheets, 214 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:46,600 Speaker 1: chief economists at Teaching Fixed Income based in Newark, New Jersey, 215 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:49,240 Speaker 1: giving us his thoughts on what's likely to be a 216 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 1: two point two five trillion dollar fiscal stimulus plan to 217 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:59,720 Speaker 1: be announced today. Probably President uh Biden focusing on infrastructure 218 00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:02,040 Speaker 1: is going to be the big issue. Matt. It's not 219 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 1: just simply cash into individual's pockets to deal with a pandemic. 220 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:09,120 Speaker 1: This is something that is a longer term, forward thinking 221 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:17,600 Speaker 1: pandemic or fiscal stimulus aimed at infrastructure. I this morning 222 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:20,319 Speaker 1: in our Bloomberg pantry here in the office, I picked 223 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:28,840 Speaker 1: up a package of shocks bio Cannabis Power brand granola bars. Now, yeah, 224 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:33,280 Speaker 1: I haven't eaten them yet, but they don't have actual 225 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:35,719 Speaker 1: THC and them. I love to go back, and they're not. 226 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:38,800 Speaker 1: Really it's not amsterdamn You're in Berlin, not amer That's right, 227 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 1: I'm in Berlin. It's not legal here. I mean, cops 228 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:44,800 Speaker 1: turn the other way if you're smoking a joint in 229 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:48,200 Speaker 1: the park, I've heard. But in New York soon you 230 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:50,080 Speaker 1: will be able to, I guess, smoke a joint in 231 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 1: the park and get cannabis power granola bars that really 232 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:56,199 Speaker 1: have th HC in them. Kisha Clukey joins us New 233 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 1: York correspondent for Bloomberg Government out of Albany because the 234 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:04,200 Speaker 1: govern in her has just signed the weed bill. Keisha, Yes, yes, 235 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:07,720 Speaker 1: it's a it's official. Uh is coming to New York State. 236 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:10,400 Speaker 1: We're going to be the second largest market in the 237 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:14,800 Speaker 1: nation for legal marijuana. Alright, Keisha, what's the I'm sure 238 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:18,120 Speaker 1: there was an economic argument. We're Bloomberg here, we think money, 239 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 1: we think markets. What's the economic argument for legalizing marijuana 240 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:26,000 Speaker 1: at the state level. Yeah, and and of course the 241 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 1: argument is is intertwined with a whole bunch of things, 242 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:32,440 Speaker 1: you know, criminal justice issues as well. Um, but this 243 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 1: is looking to bring in about three fifty million dollars 244 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 1: a year once it's fully rolled out in just packed 245 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 1: revenue for the state, and then on top of that, 246 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:44,600 Speaker 1: UM the total amount of four point two billion dollars 247 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 1: in sales is the projection once it's fully fully rolled out, 248 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 1: as well as tens of thousands of jobs. So I 249 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:55,040 Speaker 1: was recently chatting with a credit trader here on the 250 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:59,600 Speaker 1: Bloomberg terminal who estimates about of his adult friends smoke 251 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:03,120 Speaker 1: weed or you know, eat gummies or whatever. Do you 252 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:10,200 Speaker 1: really think, Keisha, that that many people use THHC products? Yeah, yes, 253 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 1: I think so. I mean, we already have medical marijuana 254 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:17,120 Speaker 1: in the state, and this legislation expands the medical marijuana program, 255 00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:19,960 Speaker 1: and it also allows for home grow UM. And then 256 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:22,120 Speaker 1: it has this other side to it, which is the 257 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 1: recreational side. And I think there's been a lot of 258 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:27,960 Speaker 1: study showing people from New York State going to the 259 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 1: states surrounding us. Uh, you know, Massachusetts is very popular 260 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:35,480 Speaker 1: to get these products. So now we're keeping the money 261 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:38,720 Speaker 1: for ourselves, or we will once it's rolled out. So 262 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 1: what's the sense of time in Kisha. I'm here in 263 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:47,720 Speaker 1: New Jersey and the New Jersey legalized UM marijuana months ago, 264 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 1: but I don't think it's even available yet. I'm just 265 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:51,560 Speaker 1: not sure the timing here. Do we have any sense 266 00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:54,680 Speaker 1: of when we're gonna see you know, smoke shops and 267 00:15:55,120 --> 00:16:00,400 Speaker 1: edible cafes, you know on Broadway on. I mean a 268 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:02,960 Speaker 1: lot is gonna depend on the regulations. They still have 269 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:05,680 Speaker 1: to set up the Office of Cannabis and a Cannabis 270 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 1: Board to talk about licensing and figure out how many 271 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:12,680 Speaker 1: dispensaries will be allowed, where they would be located. UM. 272 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:15,960 Speaker 1: The lawmakers, of course New York is very competitive, especially 273 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 1: with New Jersey, and they're saying, we can walk and 274 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:21,640 Speaker 1: chew gum at the same time. Let's have it up 275 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:24,600 Speaker 1: by next year. So they're hoping to have the first 276 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:28,080 Speaker 1: licenses out by at some point in two although, of 277 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:30,920 Speaker 1: course again that depends on on how fast they get 278 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:34,600 Speaker 1: these regulations in place. So what about farming, I mean, 279 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 1: I assume that we're not getting all this stuff from 280 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:40,400 Speaker 1: Humble County on the other side of the country. UM, 281 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:43,200 Speaker 1: it's not being flown in from Jamaica. Are they gonna 282 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 1: Are there gonna be big weed farms um in western 283 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:52,800 Speaker 1: New York. UM that could be a potential UM. The 284 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:56,880 Speaker 1: legislation provides for um AID to help farmers, start up 285 00:16:56,960 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 1: businesses I suppose to be canvas growers and station in 286 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:03,640 Speaker 1: the state. They're really excited. A lot of farms already 287 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:07,720 Speaker 1: have hence farming and produce DBD products, so they're already 288 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:11,399 Speaker 1: in a position to not only plant these uh, these 289 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:14,280 Speaker 1: weed plants, but also you know, get them out the 290 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:17,640 Speaker 1: door and get them to processing plants or processing them 291 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 1: themselves so that they can get them to distributors. Kisha, 292 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:24,200 Speaker 1: how much what kind of support did this have up 293 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:27,080 Speaker 1: in Albany? Was a bipartisan support? Was it? You know, 294 00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:31,960 Speaker 1: along party lines? How broad is the support for this? Well, 295 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 1: it's been a long time in the making. Um, I 296 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:38,760 Speaker 1: think one lawmaker isn't pushing it for eight years. So um, 297 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:41,040 Speaker 1: over the years, it's it's gained some support. And the 298 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:44,480 Speaker 1: final deal did end up passing in the state legislature 299 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:47,960 Speaker 1: very late last night, a largely along party lines, although 300 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:51,919 Speaker 1: there were some Democrats who sided um with the Republicans 301 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:55,199 Speaker 1: against the bill. UM. And then their concerns were, you know, 302 00:17:55,320 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 1: operating machinery under the influence that work UM issues really 303 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:02,800 Speaker 1: it into driving and traffic stacy and there's a lot 304 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:08,479 Speaker 1: that still need yeah, yeah, exactly, And also you know, 305 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:11,280 Speaker 1: how can you tell whether or not someone is under 306 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:15,199 Speaker 1: the influence um immediately while driving? Did they smoke you know, 307 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:18,159 Speaker 1: days before, was it right before? Was it while they 308 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:20,639 Speaker 1: were driving? Um? So there's gonna be a lot of 309 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:22,879 Speaker 1: these details that will work out. This is just the 310 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:27,720 Speaker 1: basic framework for the legislation. All right, Keisha, thank you 311 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:32,760 Speaker 1: so much. We appreciate that, Kisha Kluky for Bloomberg giving 312 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:35,920 Speaker 1: us her sense here of the law that just signed 313 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:41,040 Speaker 1: into or signed into law legalizing marijuana in the state 314 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:46,960 Speaker 1: of New York. That's big for the industry. I saw 315 00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:53,200 Speaker 1: a story cross the Terminal earlier about Fiser's vaccine Paul, 316 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:56,440 Speaker 1: which says that teens who take it and I guess 317 00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 1: twelve to fifteen is the age range here, it was 318 00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 1: a hundred percent effective in a final stage trial. That's 319 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:06,200 Speaker 1: a big number. This is huge, Uh, you know, Matt, 320 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:09,080 Speaker 1: because I've been saying, you know, I'm all, I'm all psite. 321 00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:11,040 Speaker 1: I got my first shot last weekend. I'm gonna get 322 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:12,919 Speaker 1: my second one in a few weeks, and you know, 323 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:16,320 Speaker 1: and and vaccinations here thankfully are ramping up with The 324 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 1: big big issue for me is getting kids fully back 325 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:25,640 Speaker 1: into school next fall. Full after school activities, full athletics 326 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:28,400 Speaker 1: back to you. Enough of those kids, you want them 327 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:31,320 Speaker 1: gone from seven o'clock in the morning exact, coming home 328 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:34,440 Speaker 1: until nine exactly right, and none of this virtual, none 329 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:36,080 Speaker 1: of this. You know, I understand why we're doing it. 330 00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:38,520 Speaker 1: Obviously in many districts have done a great job. But 331 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:40,119 Speaker 1: let's get the kids back to school. And then it 332 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:42,639 Speaker 1: appears when you start to see some of this data 333 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 1: coming out from some of these pharmaceutical companies, Matt that um, 334 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:47,600 Speaker 1: you know, it's more and more likely every day that 335 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:49,399 Speaker 1: we're going to get there. You know, it would be 336 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:51,879 Speaker 1: great is if you could get your kids into the 337 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:56,200 Speaker 1: Goldman Sachs Analyst training program exactly, you'd never see him again, 338 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:58,320 Speaker 1: you know, yeah, exactly what you know, I did that 339 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 1: back in the day, and U you know what was 340 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:05,399 Speaker 1: different there, you know I was doing weeks uh. And 341 00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:08,200 Speaker 1: but what was different then is we were all together 342 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:11,120 Speaker 1: in the office. We had that sense of camaraderie. Um. 343 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:13,040 Speaker 1: And but it's really I can see how could be 344 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:16,359 Speaker 1: really difficult here, uh, with this whole virtual thing. You're 345 00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:19,160 Speaker 1: stuck in your apartment somewhere and you're grinding it out 346 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:21,320 Speaker 1: and you don't have the support of your fellows, you know, 347 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 1: analysts that are also going through it, so I can 348 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:26,119 Speaker 1: see what's going on there for those folks. That's a 349 00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:28,399 Speaker 1: that's a good point I want to get, just to 350 00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:31,440 Speaker 1: get back to the vaccines. I'm getting more and more 351 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:34,000 Speaker 1: terrified about astra zeneca. I know, we talked about it 352 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:36,240 Speaker 1: a lot, and we've decided, you know, we'll take any 353 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 1: shot they give us because we're good citizens, because you know, 354 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:42,359 Speaker 1: we want to be yep uh, participants in in the 355 00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:46,919 Speaker 1: healthy global economy. But Germany yesterday said, all right, you 356 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:50,200 Speaker 1: know what, no one under sixty gets the astros enneca shot. 357 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 1: Previously they said no one over sixty five, So the 358 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:55,880 Speaker 1: window is getting smaller and smaller. They found thirty one 359 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:59,920 Speaker 1: cases of blood clots in nine cases leading to day 360 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:04,439 Speaker 1: fs UM, and some were people who were only twenty 361 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:07,919 Speaker 1: years old. You don't want to walk into you know, 362 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:11,480 Speaker 1: a doctor's office in your twenties to get a vaccine 363 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:13,919 Speaker 1: that you think is gonna you know, make you not 364 00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:17,280 Speaker 1: get COVID and then die of an embolism. That's like, 365 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:21,000 Speaker 1: that's very very Let's go to the expert. Let's bring 366 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:24,360 Speaker 1: in an expert. Matt Sam Fazelli. He's a senior pharmaceutical analysts. 367 00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 1: He's also a head of a research for Bloomberg Intelligence 368 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 1: in Europe. And Sam knows all about this stuff. He's 369 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 1: got a PhD in something that I think is somewhat related. Sam, 370 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:35,879 Speaker 1: let's start with the astro Zeneca. What do we know. 371 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:39,399 Speaker 1: There's so much misinformation or just I guess cross currents 372 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:42,679 Speaker 1: of information out there. What's your sense of this astro 373 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:46,920 Speaker 1: Zeneca vaccination. Yeah, Hi, Paul, So I think I would 374 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:48,679 Speaker 1: call it cross currents some was a good phrase they 375 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:53,399 Speaker 1: use their misinformation or confusing information. So what I'd like 376 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:57,680 Speaker 1: to do is to run with the one country that 377 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:00,439 Speaker 1: has been very clear about the numbers, etcetera. Come out with, 378 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:03,879 Speaker 1: and that's the pool Earlier institute in Germany. They're now 379 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:10,000 Speaker 1: talking about thirty one cases temporarily associated with the vaccination dose. 380 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:12,440 Speaker 1: And then when you start looking at those numbers, now 381 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:16,720 Speaker 1: thirty one cases over about two months of vaccinating out 382 00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:19,920 Speaker 1: of two point seven million doses. That calculates to something 383 00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:23,560 Speaker 1: in the region of a sixty eight or seventy roughly 384 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:29,639 Speaker 1: um cases per annum per million, And that is higher 385 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:32,360 Speaker 1: than any other estimate that I've seen for the natural 386 00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:35,240 Speaker 1: number of cases here. So so we're now in the 387 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:40,119 Speaker 1: realms that that that a serious institution has talked about 388 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:42,840 Speaker 1: numbers that they have adjudicated and they think I might 389 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 1: be related. I think everyone needs to seriously Look. I 390 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 1: get what you're saying, and I don't play the Loto 391 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:53,280 Speaker 1: because I don't think there's any chance that I would win. 392 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:56,240 Speaker 1: But at the same time, if I'm in my twenties, 393 00:22:57,359 --> 00:22:59,960 Speaker 1: I want my chances of dying from a blood class 394 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:03,679 Speaker 1: temporarily related to a vaccine to be zero, you know, 395 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:07,960 Speaker 1: to be none. I don't. I don't care if two 396 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,879 Speaker 1: point seven million people got it and we're fine. I 397 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:12,639 Speaker 1: don't want to be the one person that gets a 398 00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 1: blood clot and dies. And if there's any causation, I 399 00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:22,000 Speaker 1: think it's a hard cell. Sam, You're right. Unfortunately, people 400 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:26,160 Speaker 1: don't get vaccinated just for themselves. Um. The reason vaccines 401 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:30,960 Speaker 1: work is that it creates a community of vaccinated people, 402 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:33,399 Speaker 1: which then makes it very difficult for the virus to 403 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:37,120 Speaker 1: to to pass around, which is what some people talk about. 404 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:40,359 Speaker 1: This wall of immunity that we put up against the virus. 405 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:43,760 Speaker 1: That's when you see much more than the some of 406 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:47,480 Speaker 1: the individuals who are protected. Now. I understand that you 407 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:50,040 Speaker 1: can't go and sell that to a twenty year old, 408 00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:53,959 Speaker 1: but frankly, if the only vaccine available, which is not 409 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:56,560 Speaker 1: the case, but if the only vaccine available with aster zeneca, 410 00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:00,560 Speaker 1: I would say they absolutely have to get it because 411 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:04,639 Speaker 1: there's just no other option. And and in fact the 412 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:06,600 Speaker 1: case counts. You know, some of them are likely to 413 00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:09,159 Speaker 1: have been people who would have had it anyway, So 414 00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:13,280 Speaker 1: really still need to be studied and understood why it's related. 415 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:16,240 Speaker 1: Um And I mean, let me give you another thing, Matt. 416 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:19,320 Speaker 1: What if in a four months time, few months time, 417 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:21,320 Speaker 1: as Johnson and Johnson's rolled out, you get the same 418 00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:24,120 Speaker 1: signal there, then what do you do? Or what if 419 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:27,639 Speaker 1: find a BioNTech in three months time or two months 420 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 1: time you see a rare case of stuff going on 421 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,440 Speaker 1: in there. I mean, I'm not expecting anything, but I'm saying, 422 00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:36,720 Speaker 1: what if we have to make choices and this has 423 00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:39,679 Speaker 1: to be one of them. Sam stepping back, and I 424 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:42,640 Speaker 1: know you're you're based in France. I spend a lot 425 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:46,960 Speaker 1: of time in the UK, our audience here in the US. 426 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:50,600 Speaker 1: A sense of why has the vaccination rollout been so 427 00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:55,000 Speaker 1: challenging In the European Union in particular. Yes, so it's 428 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,840 Speaker 1: all so far, it's all about not having had the 429 00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:01,199 Speaker 1: doses to do the job. And I mean, let's not 430 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:04,480 Speaker 1: forget that France has got about to have present of 431 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:07,680 Speaker 1: its population now vaccinated with at least one though or something. 432 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:10,840 Speaker 1: That that's now it's starting to become respectable, right, Okay. 433 00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:16,480 Speaker 1: The point is though, that when you did your deals late, 434 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:19,720 Speaker 1: when he spent and this is the European Union that 435 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:23,360 Speaker 1: I am blaming nobody else, right, not the countries they 436 00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:26,000 Speaker 1: kind of abdicated to the U, because that's what they're 437 00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:29,280 Speaker 1: supposed to be the the points of the European Union. 438 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:33,960 Speaker 1: When they did their deals and negotiated for every single 439 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:37,160 Speaker 1: cent and did the deals extra number of months later, 440 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:41,240 Speaker 1: when they did not invest in manufacturing like the UK 441 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:44,280 Speaker 1: government did, like the US government did, and gave these 442 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:47,719 Speaker 1: companies billions of dollars, then you pay a price. And 443 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:51,639 Speaker 1: unfortunately this is the price. All right, Sam, thank you 444 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:54,600 Speaker 1: so much for joining us. We always appreciate getting your 445 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:58,320 Speaker 1: perspective here. San Fazeli he's a senior pharmaceutical analyst, folks. 446 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:00,280 Speaker 1: He's one of the best in the city of London, 447 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:04,000 Speaker 1: covering the European big pharmaceutical companies. Also, he manages the 448 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:07,480 Speaker 1: research department in Europe for Bloomberg Intelligence. He's got a 449 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:09,879 Speaker 1: lot of experience in this stuff. He's been very helpful 450 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:12,440 Speaker 1: to us over these past twelve months as you try 451 00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:14,920 Speaker 1: to get a sense of what this pandemic is about, 452 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:17,440 Speaker 1: what this virus is about, and now over the last 453 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:20,520 Speaker 1: several months, about these vaccines and the rollout of these 454 00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:24,240 Speaker 1: vaccines and the efficacy of these vaccines. So good numbers 455 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:26,800 Speaker 1: out of the UK, good numbers out of the US, 456 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:30,520 Speaker 1: and some improving numbers out of the European Union as 457 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:33,879 Speaker 1: they try to catch up. Thanks for listening to the 458 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:37,840 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Markets podcast. You can subscribe and listen to interviews 459 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:42,160 Speaker 1: with Apple Podcasts or whatever podcast platform you prefer. I'm 460 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:46,520 Speaker 1: Matt Miller. I'm on Twitter at Matt Miller three. Put 461 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:49,200 Speaker 1: on false Sweeney I'm on Twitter at pt Sweeney. Before 462 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:52,359 Speaker 1: the podcast. You can always catch us worldwide at Bloomberg Radio.