Speaker 1: Pushkin. Fka Twiggs is someone whose music is nearly impossible
Speaker 1: to categorize. She's a singer songwriter who plays around with
Speaker 1: R and B, electronica and hip hop. She's been lumped
Speaker 1: into the alt R and B category with Frank Ocean,
Speaker 1: The Weekend and Sissa, but prefers not to be boxed
Speaker 1: in Bonn and raised in the rural Ukka Twiggs is
Speaker 1: probably best known for dating actor Robert Pattinson, also for
Speaker 1: the health scare that left her needing six tumors removed
Speaker 1: just last year. At least, that's what the press wanted
Speaker 1: to focus on when her new album Magdalen came out
Speaker 1: in November. But when she decided to sit with Rick
Speaker 1: Ruben on Broken Record, she wanted to talk about what
Speaker 1: matters most to her, her creative process and her music.
Speaker 1: She sat with Rick on the old tour bus studio
Speaker 1: parked at Shangri. Lad discussed the striking video she came
Speaker 1: up with for her single Cellophane and how recording this
Speaker 1: album helped her heal. This is Broken Record Season three.
Speaker 1: Liner notes for the Digital Age. I'm justin Richmond. Just
Speaker 1: a quick note here. You can listen to all of
Speaker 1: the music mentioned in this episode on our playlist, which
Speaker 1: you can find a link to in the show notes
Speaker 1: for licensing reasons. Each time a song is referenced in
Speaker 1: this episode, you'll hear this sound effect all right. Enjoy
Speaker 1: the episode. Here's Rick Rubin and FKA Twigs on her
Speaker 1: new album. How was making this album different than anything
Speaker 1: you've done before? I was able to write for my
Speaker 1: voice more, And I don't just mean like my physical voice,
Speaker 1: I mean like for my soul voice as well. Like
Speaker 1: I feel like I wrote it from more of a
Speaker 1: like an inside out kind of place, which I always
Speaker 1: have done in the past. But you know, during that
Speaker 1: in your early twenties, is doing it different from doing
Speaker 1: it in your thirties? You know, I think this process
Speaker 1: was even though I was like going through a lot
Speaker 1: in my personal life, I think it was a much
Speaker 1: kinder as much kinder to myself in my process. And
Speaker 1: I just didn't feel very like ferocious when I made
Speaker 1: this record. I think, like, you know, as a new artist,
Speaker 1: to get that those first pieces of music out, like
Speaker 1: I had such like like a fire, such a ferociousness,
Speaker 1: such a push, such like an endless amount of energy,
Speaker 1: such like an endless amount of like ambition and fight,
Speaker 1: And for me, this record didn't come from a place
Speaker 1: of fight at all. It came from a place of
Speaker 1: like stillness, beautiful. It's been really nice actually, so it
Speaker 1: sounds like it became a pleasant process making it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And don't get me wrong, there were some tough moments,
Speaker 1: but I don't feel like scarred by it. You know,
Speaker 1: there's some songs which you know, there's just like forty
Speaker 1: versions of a song and it's so stressful, and you
Speaker 1: know you want the song to come out like it's
Speaker 1: just a struggle to the point where even you know,
Speaker 1: you're like playing at live three years later and you're
Speaker 1: kind of still got like the kind of angst off
Speaker 1: when you first made it, Like there's nothing on the
Speaker 1: record necessarily that feels like that for me this time,
Speaker 1: I wonder if it came from being in a different
Speaker 1: place or maybe just having more experience. I think just
Speaker 1: having more experience, and I think just believing in myself
Speaker 1: more and being more certain in my decisions and my
Speaker 1: decisions being the final decisions and not like not like
Speaker 1: needing anybody else's opinion or approval. You weren't sick and
Speaker 1: guessing yourself. Yeah, great, yeah. Great. And also to have
Speaker 1: amazing collaborators that were there like supporting me out of
Speaker 1: love and of like ego or like cloud chasing or
Speaker 1: like you know, that makes a big difference as well. Absolutely, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that sounds great. Yeah, I haven't heard it yet. Exciting.
Speaker 1: Tell me what was the how did that one start? Well,
Speaker 1: that actually from the first session that I worked with
Speaker 1: Nicholas jar and when we did that song, like I
Speaker 1: just knew he was going to be such an important
Speaker 1: part of the record. He had like a sensitivity and
Speaker 1: just like an emotional depth and intellectual depth that really
Speaker 1: touched me. He's just such an incredible person. And he
Speaker 1: is a music artist. You know, there's music it's the
Speaker 1: first time that you worked with him, it's the first
Speaker 1: time I worked with him. Yeah, you know, there's music makers,
Speaker 1: and there's amazing programmers, and there's people that have all
Speaker 1: the tricks in the world. But he's a music artist
Speaker 1: and that's different. Like he it's not about him, you know,
Speaker 1: it's about the music and the work. And that was
Speaker 1: just so inspiring to me. And he was so gentle
Speaker 1: and so funny and so I don't know, like in
Speaker 1: someone's we were quite similar because we can both be
Speaker 1: very serious and we take what we do extremely seriously
Speaker 1: and with so much care, but at the same time,
Speaker 1: like both really goofy and really like just have a
Speaker 1: lot of fun. And like, you know, we'd have this
Speaker 1: like joke in the studio that like just before sunset,
Speaker 1: like it would turn into like cat hour, and like
Speaker 1: you know when you have a cat and then they
Speaker 1: start running around for an hour. You ever had that before, Yeah,
Speaker 1: and they just go crazy for like one hour out
Speaker 1: of the day. You know. We would have this joke
Speaker 1: that like Nigo had like a cat hourly he would
Speaker 1: be working really hard and he would just turn around
Speaker 1: and look at me and say, oh no, I felt
Speaker 1: like a cat it's coming. And it would just be
Speaker 1: so much fun. And you know they say that for
Speaker 1: any good relationship, you know, food is such an important
Speaker 1: thing because it's like bonding, isn't it. So you know,
Speaker 1: we just really liked the same food as well. So
Speaker 1: it's just really nicely to always be like hunting down
Speaker 1: like really beautiful, healthy, like homemade vegan food to eat.
Speaker 1: And there was just such a wholesome aspect to our
Speaker 1: music making process and that's what I needed. I think
Speaker 1: I really, you know. I came to him quite broken
Speaker 1: and fragile, and he just understood and he didn't try
Speaker 1: to like fix me. This was the first time you
Speaker 1: worked together? Oh, just you know, the first time and
Speaker 1: just over the duration. Yeah, I mean that was the
Speaker 1: first time ye doing some thousand eyes. Yeah, that was
Speaker 1: in our first session and then I knew and you
Speaker 1: know this thousand eys hasn't really changed a lot from
Speaker 1: the the demo. And did it start as a track first? No? No,
Speaker 1: nothing I ever do really no. I don't think anything
Speaker 1: I've ever done starts from a track. From what I
Speaker 1: can remember, I just can't make music like that. It
Speaker 1: started with me on The Tempest, all of the drums
Speaker 1: and stuff and the kind of like low end. I
Speaker 1: was doing that on the Tempest and Nico was playing
Speaker 1: the piano and we were just having a lot of fun.
Speaker 1: Even at the end of the song. I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: this song would be so good with a horn section,
Speaker 1: and I was like, I don't know anyone who can
Speaker 1: be cool, and then we were both like, just like
Speaker 1: do it with your mouth. So like the end of it,
Speaker 1: there's like a trumpet sound that's just making broaded like
Speaker 1: there's you know, Nico affecting it, and the way I
Speaker 1: wrote the song was I just kept on looping myself
Speaker 1: and recording over and over and over. I've been listening
Speaker 1: to a lot of Gregorian music and like it shows.
Speaker 1: It feels like. It made me feel like it had
Speaker 1: an ancient, spiritual feeling about it that really feels good.
Speaker 1: It feels while it feels traditional, would also feels super modern, cool,
Speaker 1: very exciting. It's like a procession to me. Yeah, Like
Speaker 1: it feels like something's happening, whether it's like a wedding
Speaker 1: or a funeral or there's just something and the repetitive
Speaker 1: nature exactly, it's kind of just keeps coming around marching. Yeah,
Speaker 1: It's just this kind of like feeling of people just
Speaker 1: moving forward altogether in Unison. You know. That's what it
Speaker 1: makes me think of, Like imagine like just some sort
Speaker 1: of procession, you know, some sort of like something that
Speaker 1: feels very like sacred and gentle and necessary. It was
Speaker 1: very organic, and to me, that's just testament to the
Speaker 1: relationship that I had with Nicholas jar throughout the whole
Speaker 1: music making process. I'm just so grateful to him. You know,
Speaker 1: we were there like side by side in the earliest
Speaker 1: hours of the morning, when we were both tired and
Speaker 1: you know, exhausted, and I think the world is really
Speaker 1: even yet to see just how brilliant he is. I
Speaker 1: had his I guess his first EP for a really
Speaker 1: long time, and then there was no more music for Yeah,
Speaker 1: it seems seemingly forever. But that's what happens, you know,
Speaker 1: Like when you're an artist. It doesn't just you can't
Speaker 1: just click your fingers and come. And I think it's different, like,
Speaker 1: you know, to set myself and Nico like we're not
Speaker 1: interested in making like hit songs. It's not about that.
Speaker 1: It's not just like where's the hook get in? Who's
Speaker 1: the hit maker? Like you know, like just get on
Speaker 1: the mic and do it like easy. It's not like that,
Speaker 1: Like it really has to come from a different place,
Speaker 1: and that place is you don't know when you're going
Speaker 1: to tap into it, Like it's it is literally like
Speaker 1: tapping for oil or digging for water. You know, you
Speaker 1: get a little sprout and then it stops. Then sometimes
Speaker 1: it's just the tiniest scratch and all of a sudden
Speaker 1: you're like flooded with like so much stuff. When you
Speaker 1: have a week and you could write like half an
Speaker 1: album in a week after like four years of only
Speaker 1: writing one song. And for me, that's kind of how
Speaker 1: Magdalene was in a way. It was sort of like
Speaker 1: one song here like a break, like here at a break,
Speaker 1: and then four songs at once. Yeah, you know, two
Speaker 1: songs in a day. Yea, it was time. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: was time. And it has so little to do with us. Oh,
Speaker 1: it has nothing to do with me. I always say that.
Speaker 1: It's just like, yeah, something just comes through you sometimes,
Speaker 1: Yeah it's bigger. That's why I text Nico the other
Speaker 1: day and I said, like, this is like bigger than us,
Speaker 1: like we did really well and I'm so happy then,
Speaker 1: isn't it? And that feeling when it, when it does appear,
Speaker 1: it's so exciting and a little scary, I know for me,
Speaker 1: Like I always the feeling like, oh I don't want
Speaker 1: it to dissipline, like you know what I mean, Like,
Speaker 1: let's not mess it up. Yeah. To me, it just
Speaker 1: feels like the closest thing to dying. That's how I feel.
Speaker 1: It's like when you die, like that moment, your last
Speaker 1: piece of consciousness before you know what happens next, even
Speaker 1: if what happens next is like nothing or if it's everything.
Speaker 1: When I feel like I'm in that zone of making music,
Speaker 1: that to me is the closest human experience of what
Speaker 1: it must be like to find out what happens next. Ye.
Speaker 1: I always say when I create, the veil is the thinnest,
Speaker 1: and I mean the veil between like where we are
Speaker 1: now and like what happens next. You're just like tapping
Speaker 1: at that door. Like it just feels like not like
Speaker 1: a human experience, it feels like a otherworldly experience to me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I would say it's not it's not intellectual at all.
Speaker 1: It's it's just you just feel it. Yeah, And if
Speaker 1: you think about it, it dissipates as well. It's it's
Speaker 1: such a fine line, isn't it is. You almost say,
Speaker 1: you know, even when you're institute and someone's doing something great, yeah,
Speaker 1: you don't even tell them it's good. No, you know,
Speaker 1: Like I've had that with like Nika a couple of
Speaker 1: times in the record at the end of Mary Magdalen,
Speaker 1: because I can be like, you know, I'm very involved
Speaker 1: in my music making process, and I'm very like, Nope,
Speaker 1: I don't like that, Nope, Nope, nope. I mean, yep,
Speaker 1: take that, Okay, I'll have that. Send it over here,
Speaker 1: send me that part. Do you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: I'm very like, yeah, I know everything that's going on
Speaker 1: all the time, almost like to the point like Carlos
Speaker 1: who works on a record, like he makes a joke
Speaker 1: out of it that I'll be like, yeah, it sounds great,
Speaker 1: But there was a bell in the second chorus three
Speaker 1: weeks ago when we did that session with this person,
Speaker 1: this person, this person, and it's not there now, and
Speaker 1: everyone will be like, oh, what bell. And then we'll
Speaker 1: go through all the fouls and then someone will find
Speaker 1: a bell and I'll be like, you're crazy, Like you're
Speaker 1: actually crazy. But there's a few times on the record
Speaker 1: of Nico where like I just had to back off
Speaker 1: and sit quietly and just let him do his thing.
Speaker 1: And the end of Mary MG for me was like
Speaker 1: that in the sense that he just went off on
Speaker 1: like a kind of journey of finishing this song kind
Speaker 1: of for about forty minutes. He started making these crazy,
Speaker 1: like plastic, stretchy drums, and I was like, Ah, that
Speaker 1: is what I've been aching for for this song for
Speaker 1: the whole time. And I have been through every drum programmer,
Speaker 1: and I've used every single explaining word. I've gone through
Speaker 1: every sound on my tempest, and nothing is doing what
Speaker 1: I mean. And I don't know what I mean, but
Speaker 1: I can hear it. And then Nico just did it
Speaker 1: and I was like, nobody move, it's happening. Nobody moved.
Speaker 1: So yeah, there are a few times on the record that, yeah,
Speaker 1: just that kind of presence of something else sort of
Speaker 1: came through for sure. So exciting. Let's listen to the
Speaker 1: next one. We'll have more with Fgate Twigs and Rick
Speaker 1: Rubin when we come back. We're back with more from
Speaker 1: f Gate Twigs. How did that one happen? I was
Speaker 1: in this studio with my bandmate and my labelmate, Sian
Speaker 1: and Ethan, and it was quite a flow of consciousness
Speaker 1: from ber Ethan was on the piano and I was
Speaker 1: had like my helicon like voice machine, and I started
Speaker 1: like just making these like effects using that, like layering
Speaker 1: up my voice. And I didn't know that when I
Speaker 1: was using a helicon, I felt quite free, you know,
Speaker 1: like I didn't feel because I just felt like it
Speaker 1: was like a different character and it just like enabled
Speaker 1: me to kind of like have like this cadence that
Speaker 1: it's strange because I like kind of wrapped on my
Speaker 1: music before, but it was so distorted just started. It
Speaker 1: was like an alien rap kind of quite so synthetic,
Speaker 1: but through the helicon it sounded like grounded and earthy
Speaker 1: and like you said, that more personal and closer rather
Speaker 1: than like an alien rap, which is like far away
Speaker 1: and like esoteric science fiction. Yeah, exactly like us real. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like roots, it's like in the earth. It's like
Speaker 1: you know, a growling voice from inside your stomach or something.
Speaker 1: And so I just felt like I was able to
Speaker 1: just express like that kind of like frustration and hardness
Speaker 1: like easier. And and Ethan was playing these beautiful piano chords,
Speaker 1: and I was weirdly thinking about Elton John, you know,
Speaker 1: even as an incredible musician, Like he's just one of
Speaker 1: those guys that can play like five instruments to like
Speaker 1: a you know, ridiculously high standard, and you know he's like, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: sure I can do that, but like he's kind of,
Speaker 1: you know, very humble and sweet and and quite sort
Speaker 1: of reserved. But then he'll just like pick up the
Speaker 1: clarinet and like we'll pick up the saxophone and make
Speaker 1: the whole kind of rise at the end. So working
Speaker 1: with him was really exciting. And then I remember it
Speaker 1: was kind of done in one flow of consciousness. It
Speaker 1: was sort of like a jam, I guess. And then
Speaker 1: My Tempest was on and I started making these really
Speaker 1: like ugly sounds on the Tempest and I was like,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, this is so cool. It's like some
Speaker 1: weird like musical but then like with these like Elton
Speaker 1: Johnny sort of like piano chords and then like my
Speaker 1: voice like going from this rap to the quite like operatic.
Speaker 1: But then it also felt really punk. You know, there
Speaker 1: was something about it that just felt really punk. And
Speaker 1: I remember my favorite brand, just ex Respects, and they
Speaker 1: always had like saxophone in their music, Like you'd think
Speaker 1: it would be like this kind of like Calamity, and
Speaker 1: then all of a sudden that the sacks would come
Speaker 1: in and I played this like crazy riff or line
Speaker 1: and and yeah, it just it felt punk to me.
Speaker 1: It just felt new, and it felt emotional and it
Speaker 1: felt exciting. And again that was one of the songs.
Speaker 1: It didn't change too much from the beginning, and it
Speaker 1: was I think it was like an eight minute jam,
Speaker 1: and I just went in and I just sat on
Speaker 1: the computer and just did a little like so it
Speaker 1: had some of the beat stuff even from the jam,
Speaker 1: some of the or was it more like ballad like
Speaker 1: and then it got amplified. I think it was more
Speaker 1: ballad like and then it got amplified from what I
Speaker 1: can remember, but I just remember one sign started playing,
Speaker 1: there's like crazy noises on top. I was like yes,
Speaker 1: I was like, yes, it's so ugly and like harsh
Speaker 1: and yeah, but again, just the juxtaposition of that and
Speaker 1: the beauty of the piano, it's really magical to hear,
Speaker 1: and it pulls us in different directions, which draws us
Speaker 1: more into the emotion of the song because it doesn't
Speaker 1: just start and stop, and it's not a it's not
Speaker 1: linear in any way. Neither of the two that we've
Speaker 1: listened to both have sort of gone through these build
Speaker 1: processes where they don't they The first one didn't really change,
Speaker 1: but it felt like it grew and evolved. This one
Speaker 1: felt like it more changed but still felt like it
Speaker 1: was took us on this journey and it was a
Speaker 1: consistent journey, like it made sense to go on the road,
Speaker 1: which is crazy considering us. So it's so vast home
Speaker 1: with you, like there's so many different types of music
Speaker 1: in there, and like, yeah, it's crazy that it manages
Speaker 1: to hold itself together with such certainty. But again, it's
Speaker 1: just like you said, it started from the jail, so
Speaker 1: it's almost like it works on an unconscious level. Totally. Yeah, totally,
Speaker 1: it is unconscious. It is that which is the best way,
Speaker 1: isn't it? Absolutely yeah, it's the best one. We don't
Speaker 1: even know why it's good, but you just feel it's
Speaker 1: like you can't miss that feeling. Yeah. Sometimes I've been
Speaker 1: working with my manager now for a really long time,
Speaker 1: like he's known since I was nineteen years old, And
Speaker 1: sometimes when I write a good song and he'll be like, oh,
Speaker 1: that's so good, like you please and not be like
Speaker 1: I feel sad, and he'll be like wine, and I'll
Speaker 1: be like, I'm never going to make it again, because
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like those moments you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm never gonna have that ever again. I can't even
Speaker 1: recreate it just kind have happened. Ye, some songs are
Speaker 1: easy to recreate. You know, when would a visual idea
Speaker 1: come up for a song like you did a video
Speaker 1: for that one. Yeah, I did. I think fairly soon
Speaker 1: after making that, when I just had this idea that like,
Speaker 1: it's like this kind of like linear, constant moving thing
Speaker 1: taking me back home. I'm always moving, I'm always like walking,
Speaker 1: or I'm always in a car, I'm always running until
Speaker 1: like I find what I was looking for, which was
Speaker 1: like my inner child, you know. So yeah, I had
Speaker 1: the idea for that actually quite soon after making it,
Speaker 1: that it just has to be this like constant running running,
Speaker 1: running from the town and from the country, so like
Speaker 1: just running back home, like running back nature, like running
Speaker 1: through like lakes and fields and houses and kind of
Speaker 1: having like a rebirth on the way. So yeah, the
Speaker 1: idea for that came. Where did the thought for closing
Speaker 1: and eye come from? Because to follow your gut, like
Speaker 1: I had like tumors in my uterus, so like my
Speaker 1: stomach became so sensitive. I had like stomach ache for
Speaker 1: so long. But I started to think it actually became
Speaker 1: my intuition in a weird way, because if I ate
Speaker 1: something bad, I would have the worst stomach ache ever.
Speaker 1: So my stomach became this really strong sense of intuition,
Speaker 1: and even if I felt anxious, I'd get a stomach ache,
Speaker 1: or like you know, if someone upset me, I would
Speaker 1: get a stomach ache. Or it was really strange. It
Speaker 1: was like all my emotions became something so physical because basically,
Speaker 1: like my tumors were in my uterust, but they were
Speaker 1: sitting on my colon, so that I was just like irritated,
Speaker 1: and so just to be like in chronic pain like
Speaker 1: that all the time for a year and a half,
Speaker 1: that phrase like follow your gut just became like it
Speaker 1: wasn't even metaphorical for me anymore. It was actually just
Speaker 1: you know a huge part of my feeling life. And
Speaker 1: so to put like my eye in my stomach because
Speaker 1: I just felt like I was like seeing more through
Speaker 1: my stomach than I was. You know, as soon as
Speaker 1: I tried to get too heavy about things or like
Speaker 1: you know, be too up here like in my mind
Speaker 1: or in my eyes about things, my life wasn't working.
Speaker 1: But then when I was like, what did you have
Speaker 1: to what did you have to do to heal the situation,
Speaker 1: I had surgery. Yeah, I had six five wood humors
Speaker 1: removed like a couple of years ago now, Yeah, but
Speaker 1: it was a long process of healing, like then you've
Speaker 1: got a scar tissue and like, yeah, it was really intense,
Speaker 1: but that's what I was kind of going through when
Speaker 1: I was making Magdalen, that kind of pain and then
Speaker 1: the healing process. It's it's interesting because it feels like
Speaker 1: a healing process record. I wouldn't have if you didn't
Speaker 1: tell the story, I wouldn't have not made the connection,
Speaker 1: but hearing it, it feels like that, and it feels
Speaker 1: like the healing part is that sort of that spirit,
Speaker 1: actual uplifting element of it where even though parts of
Speaker 1: it are scary or dark, it still has this sort
Speaker 1: of overwhelming positive flow to it. Yeah. Yeah, it's weird,
Speaker 1: like it wasn't a it was a hard healing process,
Speaker 1: but I mean I wouldn't change it. I would go
Speaker 1: through all again, not just for the music, but just
Speaker 1: for myself and learning to deal with trauma alone and
Speaker 1: learning to be like independent emotionally to a son extent,
Speaker 1: and knowing that I can only depend on myself truly,
Speaker 1: And that was interestingly, although being an only child, my mom,
Speaker 1: being a single parent for a lot of my upbringing,
Speaker 1: and always being incredibly independent, being put in a position
Speaker 1: where I was forced to deal with something really serious
Speaker 1: and traumatic by myself has been like the most incredible
Speaker 1: experience of the whole of my life, and I'm extremely
Speaker 1: grateful for the way that the universe conspired that I
Speaker 1: would have to do that. Yeah, it gives you confidence
Speaker 1: moving forward when you, yeah, get through some serious hurdles.
Speaker 1: Did you dance before you started making music, yes, Evon dones,
Speaker 1: since I was seven. When did the music part kick in?
Speaker 1: Fairly earlier when I started writing songs, not probably like
Speaker 1: eight or nine. I started singing with jazz bands when
Speaker 1: I was like twelve or thirteen. And did you see
Speaker 1: yourself doing music or did you Was there a time
Speaker 1: when you sell yourself more as a dancer. I think
Speaker 1: there was a time when I was really young when
Speaker 1: I saw myself more as a dancer, like maybe like nine, ten, eleven, twelve,
Speaker 1: But then, like when my voice developed a bit more
Speaker 1: as a teenager, then I saw myself more as a
Speaker 1: singer who could dance, but I just didn't know how
Speaker 1: to do it. I'm from the country. I can't really
Speaker 1: explain to you where I'm from. It's funny actually, because
Speaker 1: I was in San Francisco and two of my friends
Speaker 1: came down to see me play and the guy in particular,
Speaker 1: we grew up together. He lived next door to me
Speaker 1: in the countryside, and it was just interesting talking to
Speaker 1: them because they're living in San Francisco now, and that's
Speaker 1: quite like a big adventure to do. Like where I'm from,
Speaker 1: people just kind of stay there and like marry their
Speaker 1: friends brothers, or their childhood's sweetheart, or run the post
Speaker 1: office that was in the village that their grand had.
Speaker 1: You know, it's kind of quite it's a small town life,
Speaker 1: so you know, to know that I wanted to sing
Speaker 1: and dance and do all these things and just have
Speaker 1: no idea how. I really didn't have any idea how
Speaker 1: to do it, but I knew I wanted to, but
Speaker 1: it just seemed like there's also very like pre internet
Speaker 1: as well, if you wanted to. Was there a sense
Speaker 1: of wanting to leave the leave that place? Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: I was like the only black girl in my village.
Speaker 1: It was so stressful. I can wait to get out. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I started going to London when I was thirteen, and
Speaker 1: I have a lot of family in Birmingham, so I
Speaker 1: was lucky enough that, like from London, you grow up
Speaker 1: probably like four hours a long time. Yeah, three four hours,
Speaker 1: and then I had a lot of family in Birmingham,
Speaker 1: which is much more like multicultural, so I was, you know,
Speaker 1: I was exposed to a lot of different cultures and
Speaker 1: stuff growing up, but actually at home and in my
Speaker 1: home town, it was very one way, one way, one
Speaker 1: way of thinking. I think I was definitely like the
Speaker 1: oddball of ficial. We'll have more with FKA Twigs and
Speaker 1: Rick Rubin when we come back. We're back with more
Speaker 1: from FKA Twigs. Here's your song Cellophane, that's my favorite.
Speaker 1: It's so nice to listen to that one again. I actually, like,
Speaker 1: I got laryngitis about three weeks ago, and the interesting
Speaker 1: thing about laryngitis is that your voice will like you'll
Speaker 1: lose your voice for like a week, but then it
Speaker 1: actually takes like three weeks for your voice to come back.
Speaker 1: So like, I still can't sing the Hybits and Cellophane.
Speaker 1: It's so frustrating. So it's so nice to hear me
Speaker 1: sing it there on the record, because I've been on
Speaker 1: tour for the Hybits, like I have to sing as
Speaker 1: a whisper, so it's just k I didn't know. It's
Speaker 1: nice to hear me sing it properly because I've not
Speaker 1: been able to sing it for like a month. I
Speaker 1: bet it has some other emotional feeling when you can't
Speaker 1: get the ns, does some other thing that's BEAUTIFU. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're right, it does do another thing makes it like
Speaker 1: emotion more emotional in different it does. Yeah, it's really fragile,
Speaker 1: like yeah, and I sound kind of like more angry
Speaker 1: and frustrated and at my wits end or with no
Speaker 1: voices definitely like more tearful and yeah, and so interesting.
Speaker 1: How if we go with whatever the reality of our
Speaker 1: situations are and really are true to where we are,
Speaker 1: something really beautiful comes out. Yeah, you know, maybe it's not,
Speaker 1: oh well, this is how I wanted it. It's like
Speaker 1: forget how you wanted it and just be in it
Speaker 1: in the moment. And definitely that's what I've learned, and
Speaker 1: it's been you know, it's a singer, Like I just
Speaker 1: never realized how much I sang until like I've had
Speaker 1: this weird voice thing for two weeks, which is like
Speaker 1: almost over. But you just have to be patient, like
Speaker 1: with as far as like my vocal calls swelled up.
Speaker 1: So what happens is is when you sing really high
Speaker 1: your larynx close is tight, but if you have any
Speaker 1: type of swelling, it can't close tights or air gets through,
Speaker 1: then you can't hit the high notes anyway. I just
Speaker 1: only need to learn that this week. But like, I
Speaker 1: didn't realize how much I sang around the house until
Speaker 1: I couldn't sing. I've always sort of been like, oh no,
Speaker 1: I don't ever really sing in the shower, or I
Speaker 1: don't sing while I cook or while I'm pottering around.
Speaker 1: But I actually really do. And it's only like losing
Speaker 1: my voice that I'm like, damn, I think all the
Speaker 1: time whenever fight myself. So yeah, it's nice to hear
Speaker 1: me like bout it out there and hopefully in a
Speaker 1: couple of weeks I'll be back there. But yeah, you're
Speaker 1: really that wouldn't happen. I wrote that in the studio
Speaker 1: with Michael and Jeff, and Jeff just did these incredible
Speaker 1: piano chords and really set the tone along with A
Speaker 1: Thousand Eyes for me finding a lot of solace and
Speaker 1: the piano on this record. I never knew I could
Speaker 1: like an instrument more that wasn't like some alien like
Speaker 1: crazy like SyncE awesome, like tempest industrial sound like I
Speaker 1: never knew that I could like have a lover foo
Speaker 1: the piano, but it's really been my saving grace. And
Speaker 1: when just started doing those chords, like it just touched
Speaker 1: me in a different way. And it was towards the
Speaker 1: end of the session actually, and we hadn't had much
Speaker 1: luck in that session, but the last half an hour
Speaker 1: I just started doing that. And I remember I had
Speaker 1: a lift outside and I was like, oh, can you
Speaker 1: wait for twenty minutes? Did you start singing right away? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I did. I was like, can you wait for twenty minutes?
Speaker 1: And then my lift ended up coming in and hanging
Speaker 1: out for about an hour. But yeah, we did it
Speaker 1: in about an hour. Very simple, so beautiful. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: then at the very end, Nico and I came in
Speaker 1: and I did a bit of massaging and programming and
Speaker 1: stuff just to kind of really dial at home. But
Speaker 1: I think when when I heard it last, it didn't
Speaker 1: yet have that additional program just a bit of like,
Speaker 1: and now it feels like it the second half of
Speaker 1: it is much more compelling. Yeah. I always loved the song,
Speaker 1: but I feel like you really did crack the code
Speaker 1: of getting the getting the most out of it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it just needed a bit of love. Yeah, sos In
Speaker 1: the next song, that one's really interesting. It sounds more.
Speaker 1: That made me realize that when I listened to your
Speaker 1: past music, it sounded like science fiction, and you were
Speaker 1: more of an alien in the science fiction. And now
Speaker 1: on this track, the music is has the science fiction element,
Speaker 1: but you feel much more like this lonely human presence
Speaker 1: in this strange world. Okay, that's cool, Yeah, interesting. How
Speaker 1: did that one come about? I first wrote that one
Speaker 1: with Jack Antonoff, like leading a session. Harley Train was
Speaker 1: quite interesting because that was kind of a slightly different
Speaker 1: version of it that I really loved, but it just
Speaker 1: didn't quite hit home for me in the context of Magdalen.
Speaker 1: It's hard to explain. If it was a standalone piece,
Speaker 1: he would have liked it, but in the context of
Speaker 1: the album it didn't work. It didn't quite work. But
Speaker 1: I don't know why. I don't know what it was.
Speaker 1: But I think also as well, I remember at this
Speaker 1: time in the record, I was getting a lot of like, yeah, fatigue,
Speaker 1: you know that, you know. The end of Holy Train
Speaker 1: is basically the last song I wrote for Magdalene, and
Speaker 1: that's when I knew I had to stop because for me,
Speaker 1: Holy Train is just a slightly different era. Yes, you know,
Speaker 1: like I said, I just sound more confident in it.
Speaker 1: The beats are more confident. Sound Wave was like making
Speaker 1: incredible like beats, and I was okay with it. If
Speaker 1: sound Wave would have made those like heavy beats like
Speaker 1: a year previous, or would have been like, I can't
Speaker 1: deal with this. But he was doing it and I
Speaker 1: was really enjoying it and it sounded great, So I
Speaker 1: was like, okay, cool, this record has to come to
Speaker 1: a close because because I'm clearly like feeling a bit
Speaker 1: more like sassy and don't now. So I had a
Speaker 1: version of it with Jack, which is, you know, it
Speaker 1: was really great, just a little bit different to this one.
Speaker 1: And then and then I took that version to Scrilex
Speaker 1: and Pooh Bear and they helped me kind of just
Speaker 1: massage it completely into place. So it's kind of like
Speaker 1: a hybrid of these two babies coming together. So it's
Speaker 1: like a lot of different production credits and bits and
Speaker 1: parts from a lot of different people for a pretty
Speaker 1: simple song, which is quite funny. But it was just
Speaker 1: due to these two kind of sessions that I did
Speaker 1: in La and then when i'd finished the song, I
Speaker 1: just felt like Dann, like it's just such like a
Speaker 1: female strong album, you know, on this, like it's such
Speaker 1: like a heavy, like feminine presence that I just thought
Speaker 1: it would be really amazing to like bring a guy
Speaker 1: into this and see what his perspective is on Magdalene.
Speaker 1: And for me, Future felt like the right choice because
Speaker 1: Future is very interesting. He's very interesting artist because on
Speaker 1: one hand, he makes these huge bangers, you know that
Speaker 1: it can be very broad, like lyrically, very broad. Everyone
Speaker 1: can kind of understand, everyone can relate, and every now
Speaker 1: and again he does these songs which are so emo
Speaker 1: and emotive and like from a different place, and he
Speaker 1: just taps into this like other side of himself, and
Speaker 1: I think it's very rare that artists can do both,
Speaker 1: especially like you know, in hip hop that's only a
Speaker 1: handful where you think, yeah, you want to hear that
Speaker 1: in a club and you want it to kind of
Speaker 1: like zone out and be part of like the hype
Speaker 1: of it all. And but then at the same time,
Speaker 1: sometimes just come out of these lines or you're like, damn,
Speaker 1: that's so true. He's so melodic as well. Future really melodic,
Speaker 1: and so I played in Magdalen and he totally understood.
Speaker 1: And I just said, you know, this is about me
Speaker 1: healing as a woman and marry Magdalene and sort of
Speaker 1: archetype of the verse in Horror and all these things,
Speaker 1: and he was like, okay. I played it to him
Speaker 1: and he I said, like, you know, just try something,
Speaker 1: but like make it real. You know. He was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: of course, and he did it, and you know, his
Speaker 1: lyrics were like intent. You know, he's saying, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: like pull poison on my woman and then like I
Speaker 1: feel guilty, so I like buy her loads of nice
Speaker 1: things so I can sleep at night. I was like, damn.
Speaker 1: When he first said, I was like damn. But I
Speaker 1: was like but then he's like doing it, and it's
Speaker 1: almost like you don't hear what he's saying because it
Speaker 1: sounds fun. But then you listen to it and you're like,
Speaker 1: oh wow, that's like some confessional like stuff right there.
Speaker 1: And it just felt right. It just felt right and
Speaker 1: it felt fun, you know. For me Magazine it was
Speaker 1: such like a deep such like a deep record, yes
Speaker 1: and heavy at times, and when I perform Holy Terrain,
Speaker 1: it just feels like it feels like fun and it
Speaker 1: feels hopeful, It feels like, okay, now I'm done. Who's
Speaker 1: going to stand up my Holy Terrain? Like who's gonna
Speaker 1: I'm looking for a partner now that can you know
Speaker 1: as any woman does, like not be intimidated by her
Speaker 1: magic and be a part of it. Yes, And do
Speaker 1: you think that it may give a clue to what
Speaker 1: you do next? I mean I've already started making music again,
Speaker 1: Like yes and no, I don't know, Like it takes
Speaker 1: so long, doesn't it, to like find out what you
Speaker 1: want to do next? But certainly like the reaction on
Speaker 1: stage of Holy Terrain is just so fun, especially after
Speaker 1: all that like emotional music, it's just such like a release.
Speaker 1: So yeah, for me, Holy Train it was the last
Speaker 1: song I wrote on Magdalene and it's when I knew, okay, cool,
Speaker 1: I'm done now. Like to start off with writing day Bed,
Speaker 1: which was the first song I wrote, to then going
Speaker 1: on and writing Cellophane and Thousand Eyes and being in
Speaker 1: that place, and then to end writing Holy Terrain, I
Speaker 1: was like, I kick, that's like a cool journey, do
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? That's like I'm proud of
Speaker 1: that before before you wrote the last song, did you
Speaker 1: know you were near the end or not necessarily. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I didn't know I was near the end. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: didn't know. But the end is quite fun because you
Speaker 1: can just play like you're kind of chilling, like yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, you feel like the heavy the heavy lifting
Speaker 1: experimenting and just like, let's make a trance music now
Speaker 1: for a week. You know, it's a kind of like
Speaker 1: the pressures off. It's just like the experiment. Yeah, let's
Speaker 1: just go back in and you know, beautiful, such a
Speaker 1: great album. Thank you, I love it, and it's so
Speaker 1: nice to see you. You seem happy and well yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's quite funny because in talking to a lot of people,
Speaker 1: they really want to focus on like the tragedy of
Speaker 1: the record and how sad it is. But that's just
Speaker 1: not quite my experience of it. I would say, of
Speaker 1: all the terms that we've hung out, you seem the
Speaker 1: most comfortable in your skin today. Really. Yeah, well, I'm
Speaker 1: very shy. It literally takes me about like ten times
Speaker 1: with meeting someone to like be able to it's probably
Speaker 1: like this is maybe like our seventh time meeting now,
Speaker 1: So yeah, it takes me a long time to woman,
Speaker 1: I'm very shy. I'm very, very shy, so and it's
Speaker 1: weird as well because I think like when people first
Speaker 1: meet me, they can think I'm like quite like steely
Speaker 1: or like you know, I see, but it's just because
Speaker 1: I'm quiet and I have big eyes, so I just
Speaker 1: end up like sitting there in silence, like watching everybody.
Speaker 1: But it takes me like a long time to open up.
Speaker 1: And I guess now i'm thinking about it. It's been
Speaker 1: like the same with my music making process as well,
Speaker 1: but it's just like I feel I feel like less.
Speaker 1: I feel like I can just be more open now
Speaker 1: in a different way, not that I wasn't before, but
Speaker 1: it feels now like I can treat my music making
Speaker 1: like an old friend rather than like, yes, it seems
Speaker 1: like from everything you're saying and in the past I
Speaker 1: felt there was more of what I got from it
Speaker 1: from you was the sense of something to have to
Speaker 1: really wrestle to the ground all the time, and it
Speaker 1: was always a fight and always a struggle. And now
Speaker 1: it seems like there's some ease in the way you're
Speaker 1: seeing it, definitely, but that's also down to my collaborators
Speaker 1: as well. That's also down to my collaborators and helping
Speaker 1: it be that ease, because if it wasn't for them
Speaker 1: and for their generosity and their like willingness and helping
Speaker 1: me be the best me instead of like wanting a
Speaker 1: credit or you know. I think also you you being
Speaker 1: open to having collaborators is a big deal because in
Speaker 1: the past, even when you've worked with people, I've always
Speaker 1: felt like you were very you had a sense of
Speaker 1: ultimately you did everything yourself. I remember having a conversation
Speaker 1: where I said, you know, you don't get any extra
Speaker 1: credit for doing it yourself. It's like, all that matters
Speaker 1: is that it's good. You remember us having that conversation.
Speaker 1: I can remember so specifically I agree with you. But
Speaker 1: I do also think that as a female artist, it
Speaker 1: is incredibly important to highlight how much has done yourself,
Speaker 1: because it's something that as a male you take it
Speaker 1: for granted that if you're in a studio and you're
Speaker 1: working that people are going to say, oh, Rick Rubin
Speaker 1: did this, and Rick Rubin is great. But unfortunately, as
Speaker 1: a female in the music industry, it's just not the case.
Speaker 1: So I think if I've ever highlighted in the past
Speaker 1: how passionate I am and how much love I do
Speaker 1: put into myself. That's just more out of me trying
Speaker 1: to change the narrative on what it is being a
Speaker 1: female and having agency over my own work that I
Speaker 1: guess as a male can be taken as a privilege.
Speaker 1: I'm so glad that you feel that comfort now. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it just sounds like it just sounds healthy and the
Speaker 1: music sounds great because of it. Yeah, and I feel
Speaker 1: like there'll be more music sooner than the last round.
Speaker 1: That just feels like you're in. It feels like you're
Speaker 1: in a good place. You never know how long it's
Speaker 1: going to take to you. It's true, it comes when
Speaker 1: it comes. It's true. I just I like when you
Speaker 1: make new music. That's a fan. We like to get
Speaker 1: the good things come to those who weigh as well.
Speaker 1: You can check out twigs new album on the playlist
Speaker 1: we put together for this week's episode at Broken record
Speaker 1: podcast dot com. You can also sign up for our
Speaker 1: behind the scenes newsletter while you're there. Broken Records produced
Speaker 1: by Pushing Industries with help from Jason Gambrell, Me Lovell,
Speaker 1: and Lea Rode. The music is by the Great Kenny Beats.
Speaker 1: Stay tuned for our next episode with Bonnivair I'm justin Richmond.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.