WEBVTT - FKA Twigs Heals with Magdalene 0:00:08.200 --> 0:00:14.760 Pushkin. Fka Twiggs is someone whose music is nearly impossible 0:00:14.760 --> 0:00:17.720 to categorize. She's a singer songwriter who plays around with 0:00:17.800 --> 0:00:20.680 R and B, electronica and hip hop. She's been lumped 0:00:20.680 --> 0:00:22.800 into the alt R and B category with Frank Ocean, 0:00:22.880 --> 0:00:25.840 The Weekend and Sissa, but prefers not to be boxed 0:00:25.880 --> 0:00:29.400 in Bonn and raised in the rural Ukka Twiggs is 0:00:29.400 --> 0:00:32.600 probably best known for dating actor Robert Pattinson, also for 0:00:32.640 --> 0:00:34.920 the health scare that left her needing six tumors removed 0:00:34.960 --> 0:00:37.760 just last year. At least, that's what the press wanted 0:00:37.760 --> 0:00:39.839 to focus on when her new album Magdalen came out 0:00:39.880 --> 0:00:42.320 in November. But when she decided to sit with Rick 0:00:42.400 --> 0:00:44.600 Ruben on Broken Record, she wanted to talk about what 0:00:44.680 --> 0:00:48.200 matters most to her, her creative process and her music. 0:00:49.280 --> 0:00:51.040 She sat with Rick on the old tour bus studio 0:00:51.120 --> 0:00:53.680 parked at Shangri. Lad discussed the striking video she came 0:00:53.760 --> 0:00:56.160 up with for her single Cellophane and how recording this 0:00:56.200 --> 0:01:03.800 album helped her heal. This is Broken Record Season three. 0:01:03.920 --> 0:01:10.920 Liner notes for the Digital Age. I'm justin Richmond. Just 0:01:10.959 --> 0:01:13.280 a quick note here. You can listen to all of 0:01:13.280 --> 0:01:16.200 the music mentioned in this episode on our playlist, which 0:01:16.200 --> 0:01:18.480 you can find a link to in the show notes 0:01:19.120 --> 0:01:21.920 for licensing reasons. Each time a song is referenced in 0:01:21.959 --> 0:01:27.960 this episode, you'll hear this sound effect all right. Enjoy 0:01:28.000 --> 0:01:31.640 the episode. Here's Rick Rubin and FKA Twigs on her 0:01:31.680 --> 0:01:36.399 new album. How was making this album different than anything 0:01:36.400 --> 0:01:39.760 you've done before? I was able to write for my 0:01:39.880 --> 0:01:43.160 voice more, And I don't just mean like my physical voice, 0:01:43.160 --> 0:01:45.679 I mean like for my soul voice as well. Like 0:01:45.760 --> 0:01:48.680 I feel like I wrote it from more of a 0:01:50.520 --> 0:01:56.560 like an inside out kind of place, which I always 0:01:56.600 --> 0:01:58.400 have done in the past. But you know, during that 0:01:58.440 --> 0:02:00.800 in your early twenties, is doing it different from doing 0:02:00.800 --> 0:02:04.640 it in your thirties? You know, I think this process 0:02:04.760 --> 0:02:07.280 was even though I was like going through a lot 0:02:07.280 --> 0:02:09.040 in my personal life, I think it was a much 0:02:09.120 --> 0:02:14.120 kinder as much kinder to myself in my process. And 0:02:15.560 --> 0:02:18.040 I just didn't feel very like ferocious when I made 0:02:18.040 --> 0:02:20.560 this record. I think, like, you know, as a new artist, 0:02:20.680 --> 0:02:23.000 to get that those first pieces of music out, like 0:02:23.040 --> 0:02:26.080 I had such like like a fire, such a ferociousness, 0:02:26.160 --> 0:02:28.880 such a push, such like an endless amount of energy, 0:02:29.280 --> 0:02:32.320 such like an endless amount of like ambition and fight, 0:02:32.520 --> 0:02:35.120 And for me, this record didn't come from a place 0:02:35.120 --> 0:02:37.360 of fight at all. It came from a place of 0:02:37.400 --> 0:02:42.400 like stillness, beautiful. It's been really nice actually, so it 0:02:42.440 --> 0:02:46.000 sounds like it became a pleasant process making it. Yeah, 0:02:46.400 --> 0:02:49.200 And don't get me wrong, there were some tough moments, 0:02:49.360 --> 0:02:52.680 but I don't feel like scarred by it. You know, 0:02:52.720 --> 0:02:55.079 there's some songs which you know, there's just like forty 0:02:55.200 --> 0:02:58.360 versions of a song and it's so stressful, and you 0:02:58.400 --> 0:03:00.680 know you want the song to come out like it's 0:03:00.720 --> 0:03:03.480 just a struggle to the point where even you know, 0:03:03.520 --> 0:03:05.440 you're like playing at live three years later and you're 0:03:05.520 --> 0:03:07.960 kind of still got like the kind of angst off 0:03:08.000 --> 0:03:09.880 when you first made it, Like there's nothing on the 0:03:10.000 --> 0:03:14.520 record necessarily that feels like that for me this time, 0:03:15.240 --> 0:03:17.239 I wonder if it came from being in a different 0:03:17.240 --> 0:03:20.040 place or maybe just having more experience. I think just 0:03:20.080 --> 0:03:22.840 having more experience, and I think just believing in myself 0:03:22.919 --> 0:03:27.480 more and being more certain in my decisions and my 0:03:27.600 --> 0:03:32.360 decisions being the final decisions and not like not like 0:03:32.600 --> 0:03:36.840 needing anybody else's opinion or approval. You weren't sick and 0:03:36.880 --> 0:03:40.200 guessing yourself. Yeah, great, yeah. Great. And also to have 0:03:40.240 --> 0:03:43.280 amazing collaborators that were there like supporting me out of 0:03:43.320 --> 0:03:46.640 love and of like ego or like cloud chasing or 0:03:46.720 --> 0:03:50.240 like you know, that makes a big difference as well. Absolutely, Yeah, 0:03:50.520 --> 0:03:53.840 that sounds great. Yeah, I haven't heard it yet. Exciting. 0:03:56.040 --> 0:03:59.760 Tell me what was the how did that one start? Well, 0:03:59.760 --> 0:04:03.080 that actually from the first session that I worked with 0:04:03.640 --> 0:04:06.600 Nicholas jar and when we did that song, like I 0:04:06.640 --> 0:04:08.880 just knew he was going to be such an important 0:04:09.000 --> 0:04:12.880 part of the record. He had like a sensitivity and 0:04:13.920 --> 0:04:21.720 just like an emotional depth and intellectual depth that really 0:04:22.720 --> 0:04:26.680 touched me. He's just such an incredible person. And he 0:04:26.839 --> 0:04:31.359 is a music artist. You know, there's music it's the 0:04:31.400 --> 0:04:33.080 first time that you worked with him, it's the first 0:04:33.080 --> 0:04:35.600 time I worked with him. Yeah, you know, there's music makers, 0:04:35.600 --> 0:04:38.600 and there's amazing programmers, and there's people that have all 0:04:38.640 --> 0:04:43.240 the tricks in the world. But he's a music artist 0:04:43.640 --> 0:04:48.920 and that's different. Like he it's not about him, you know, 0:04:49.000 --> 0:04:53.159 it's about the music and the work. And that was 0:04:53.320 --> 0:04:58.040 just so inspiring to me. And he was so gentle 0:04:58.160 --> 0:05:03.120 and so funny and so I don't know, like in 0:05:03.160 --> 0:05:05.160 someone's we were quite similar because we can both be 0:05:05.279 --> 0:05:09.080 very serious and we take what we do extremely seriously 0:05:09.880 --> 0:05:12.159 and with so much care, but at the same time, 0:05:12.279 --> 0:05:15.640 like both really goofy and really like just have a 0:05:15.640 --> 0:05:18.520 lot of fun. And like, you know, we'd have this 0:05:18.600 --> 0:05:21.440 like joke in the studio that like just before sunset, 0:05:21.560 --> 0:05:24.840 like it would turn into like cat hour, and like 0:05:24.880 --> 0:05:26.240 you know when you have a cat and then they 0:05:26.279 --> 0:05:29.880 start running around for an hour. You ever had that before, Yeah, 0:05:29.920 --> 0:05:32.320 and they just go crazy for like one hour out 0:05:32.360 --> 0:05:35.440 of the day. You know. We would have this joke 0:05:35.600 --> 0:05:39.760 that like Nigo had like a cat hourly he would 0:05:39.839 --> 0:05:43.040 be working really hard and he would just turn around 0:05:43.040 --> 0:05:44.760 and look at me and say, oh no, I felt 0:05:44.800 --> 0:05:47.479 like a cat it's coming. And it would just be 0:05:47.640 --> 0:05:50.919 so much fun. And you know they say that for 0:05:51.000 --> 0:05:55.160 any good relationship, you know, food is such an important 0:05:55.279 --> 0:06:00.360 thing because it's like bonding, isn't it. So you know, 0:06:00.400 --> 0:06:02.600 we just really liked the same food as well. So 0:06:02.640 --> 0:06:05.240 it's just really nicely to always be like hunting down 0:06:05.320 --> 0:06:10.119 like really beautiful, healthy, like homemade vegan food to eat. 0:06:10.800 --> 0:06:13.600 And there was just such a wholesome aspect to our 0:06:13.720 --> 0:06:16.920 music making process and that's what I needed. I think 0:06:16.960 --> 0:06:20.320 I really, you know. I came to him quite broken 0:06:20.400 --> 0:06:28.159 and fragile, and he just understood and he didn't try 0:06:28.160 --> 0:06:31.839 to like fix me. This was the first time you 0:06:31.880 --> 0:06:34.040 worked together? Oh, just you know, the first time and 0:06:34.120 --> 0:06:36.159 just over the duration. Yeah, I mean that was the 0:06:36.160 --> 0:06:40.200 first time ye doing some thousand eyes. Yeah, that was 0:06:40.200 --> 0:06:42.880 in our first session and then I knew and you 0:06:42.880 --> 0:06:45.960 know this thousand eys hasn't really changed a lot from 0:06:46.000 --> 0:06:51.600 the the demo. And did it start as a track first? No? No, 0:06:51.720 --> 0:06:53.800 nothing I ever do really no. I don't think anything 0:06:53.800 --> 0:06:55.839 I've ever done starts from a track. From what I 0:06:55.880 --> 0:06:58.320 can remember, I just can't make music like that. It 0:06:58.440 --> 0:07:00.839 started with me on The Tempest, all of the drums 0:07:00.839 --> 0:07:04.000 and stuff and the kind of like low end. I 0:07:04.040 --> 0:07:07.919 was doing that on the Tempest and Nico was playing 0:07:07.960 --> 0:07:10.880 the piano and we were just having a lot of fun. 0:07:10.920 --> 0:07:13.520 Even at the end of the song. I was like, oh, 0:07:13.560 --> 0:07:15.560 this song would be so good with a horn section, 0:07:15.640 --> 0:07:17.640 and I was like, I don't know anyone who can 0:07:17.680 --> 0:07:19.600 be cool, and then we were both like, just like 0:07:19.640 --> 0:07:21.640 do it with your mouth. So like the end of it, 0:07:21.640 --> 0:07:25.400 there's like a trumpet sound that's just making broaded like 0:07:25.440 --> 0:07:28.360 there's you know, Nico affecting it, and the way I 0:07:28.360 --> 0:07:30.320 wrote the song was I just kept on looping myself 0:07:30.320 --> 0:07:32.760 and recording over and over and over. I've been listening 0:07:32.760 --> 0:07:35.679 to a lot of Gregorian music and like it shows. 0:07:35.760 --> 0:07:39.200 It feels like. It made me feel like it had 0:07:39.240 --> 0:07:44.440 an ancient, spiritual feeling about it that really feels good. 0:07:44.440 --> 0:07:49.280 It feels while it feels traditional, would also feels super modern, cool, 0:07:49.560 --> 0:07:52.480 very exciting. It's like a procession to me. Yeah, Like 0:07:52.480 --> 0:07:54.840 it feels like something's happening, whether it's like a wedding 0:07:54.960 --> 0:07:58.280 or a funeral or there's just something and the repetitive 0:07:58.400 --> 0:08:02.640 nature exactly, it's kind of just keeps coming around marching. Yeah, 0:08:02.680 --> 0:08:04.240 It's just this kind of like feeling of people just 0:08:04.280 --> 0:08:07.520 moving forward altogether in Unison. You know. That's what it 0:08:07.520 --> 0:08:09.760 makes me think of, Like imagine like just some sort 0:08:09.800 --> 0:08:12.520 of procession, you know, some sort of like something that 0:08:12.520 --> 0:08:18.000 feels very like sacred and gentle and necessary. It was 0:08:18.120 --> 0:08:24.320 very organic, and to me, that's just testament to the 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:27.160 relationship that I had with Nicholas jar throughout the whole 0:08:27.240 --> 0:08:31.640 music making process. I'm just so grateful to him. You know, 0:08:32.600 --> 0:08:36.400 we were there like side by side in the earliest 0:08:36.440 --> 0:08:39.360 hours of the morning, when we were both tired and 0:08:39.440 --> 0:08:48.040 you know, exhausted, and I think the world is really 0:08:48.080 --> 0:08:54.720 even yet to see just how brilliant he is. I 0:08:54.840 --> 0:08:58.280 had his I guess his first EP for a really 0:08:58.320 --> 0:09:00.960 long time, and then there was no more music for Yeah, 0:09:01.040 --> 0:09:05.760 it seems seemingly forever. But that's what happens, you know, 0:09:05.880 --> 0:09:08.640 Like when you're an artist. It doesn't just you can't 0:09:08.640 --> 0:09:11.040 just click your fingers and come. And I think it's different, like, 0:09:11.559 --> 0:09:14.920 you know, to set myself and Nico like we're not 0:09:15.080 --> 0:09:17.640 interested in making like hit songs. It's not about that. 0:09:17.679 --> 0:09:20.080 It's not just like where's the hook get in? Who's 0:09:20.120 --> 0:09:24.520 the hit maker? Like you know, like just get on 0:09:24.559 --> 0:09:27.079 the mic and do it like easy. It's not like that, 0:09:27.160 --> 0:09:29.080 Like it really has to come from a different place, 0:09:29.160 --> 0:09:35.000 and that place is you don't know when you're going 0:09:35.040 --> 0:09:38.360 to tap into it, Like it's it is literally like 0:09:39.200 --> 0:09:43.120 tapping for oil or digging for water. You know, you 0:09:43.160 --> 0:09:45.360 get a little sprout and then it stops. Then sometimes 0:09:45.360 --> 0:09:48.520 it's just the tiniest scratch and all of a sudden 0:09:48.640 --> 0:09:51.400 you're like flooded with like so much stuff. When you 0:09:51.400 --> 0:09:53.560 have a week and you could write like half an 0:09:53.600 --> 0:09:55.920 album in a week after like four years of only 0:09:55.920 --> 0:09:58.040 writing one song. And for me, that's kind of how 0:09:58.080 --> 0:09:59.800 Magdalene was in a way. It was sort of like 0:10:00.320 --> 0:10:03.480 one song here like a break, like here at a break, 0:10:03.520 --> 0:10:05.640 and then four songs at once. Yeah, you know, two 0:10:05.640 --> 0:10:07.440 songs in a day. Yea, it was time. Yeah, it 0:10:07.559 --> 0:10:10.280 was time. And it has so little to do with us. Oh, 0:10:10.320 --> 0:10:12.360 it has nothing to do with me. I always say that. 0:10:12.640 --> 0:10:16.920 It's just like, yeah, something just comes through you sometimes, 0:10:17.280 --> 0:10:20.440 Yeah it's bigger. That's why I text Nico the other 0:10:20.480 --> 0:10:22.199 day and I said, like, this is like bigger than us, 0:10:22.280 --> 0:10:24.679 like we did really well and I'm so happy then, 0:10:25.880 --> 0:10:28.800 isn't it? And that feeling when it, when it does appear, 0:10:28.960 --> 0:10:32.320 it's so exciting and a little scary, I know for me, 0:10:32.440 --> 0:10:34.480 Like I always the feeling like, oh I don't want 0:10:34.480 --> 0:10:36.720 it to dissipline, like you know what I mean, Like, 0:10:37.120 --> 0:10:41.720 let's not mess it up. Yeah. To me, it just 0:10:41.960 --> 0:10:45.400 feels like the closest thing to dying. That's how I feel. 0:10:45.760 --> 0:10:48.240 It's like when you die, like that moment, your last 0:10:48.240 --> 0:10:51.440 piece of consciousness before you know what happens next, even 0:10:51.440 --> 0:10:54.120 if what happens next is like nothing or if it's everything. 0:10:54.559 --> 0:10:58.040 When I feel like I'm in that zone of making music, 0:10:58.120 --> 0:11:02.520 that to me is the closest human experience of what 0:11:02.679 --> 0:11:07.120 it must be like to find out what happens next. Ye. 0:11:07.400 --> 0:11:09.480 I always say when I create, the veil is the thinnest, 0:11:09.760 --> 0:11:11.320 and I mean the veil between like where we are 0:11:11.360 --> 0:11:14.320 now and like what happens next. You're just like tapping 0:11:14.320 --> 0:11:19.840 at that door. Like it just feels like not like 0:11:19.880 --> 0:11:25.480 a human experience, it feels like a otherworldly experience to me. Yeah, 0:11:25.559 --> 0:11:28.520 And I would say it's not it's not intellectual at all. 0:11:28.640 --> 0:11:32.079 It's it's just you just feel it. Yeah, And if 0:11:32.080 --> 0:11:35.160 you think about it, it dissipates as well. It's it's 0:11:35.200 --> 0:11:38.360 such a fine line, isn't it is. You almost say, 0:11:38.520 --> 0:11:41.480 you know, even when you're institute and someone's doing something great, yeah, 0:11:42.000 --> 0:11:44.199 you don't even tell them it's good. No, you know, 0:11:44.320 --> 0:11:46.000 Like I've had that with like Nika a couple of 0:11:46.000 --> 0:11:47.920 times in the record at the end of Mary Magdalen, 0:11:48.640 --> 0:11:51.079 because I can be like, you know, I'm very involved 0:11:51.080 --> 0:11:53.720 in my music making process, and I'm very like, Nope, 0:11:53.720 --> 0:11:56.760 I don't like that, Nope, Nope, nope. I mean, yep, 0:11:56.880 --> 0:11:58.440 take that, Okay, I'll have that. Send it over here, 0:11:59.080 --> 0:12:00.520 send me that part. Do you know what I mean. 0:12:00.559 --> 0:12:06.400 I'm very like, yeah, I know everything that's going on 0:12:06.520 --> 0:12:09.200 all the time, almost like to the point like Carlos 0:12:09.200 --> 0:12:11.120 who works on a record, like he makes a joke 0:12:11.160 --> 0:12:13.839 out of it that I'll be like, yeah, it sounds great, 0:12:13.880 --> 0:12:17.680 But there was a bell in the second chorus three 0:12:17.720 --> 0:12:20.120 weeks ago when we did that session with this person, 0:12:20.160 --> 0:12:23.240 this person, this person, and it's not there now, and 0:12:23.360 --> 0:12:25.199 everyone will be like, oh, what bell. And then we'll 0:12:25.240 --> 0:12:26.960 go through all the fouls and then someone will find 0:12:26.960 --> 0:12:28.800 a bell and I'll be like, you're crazy, Like you're 0:12:28.840 --> 0:12:31.800 actually crazy. But there's a few times on the record 0:12:31.840 --> 0:12:36.920 of Nico where like I just had to back off 0:12:37.000 --> 0:12:41.280 and sit quietly and just let him do his thing. 0:12:41.280 --> 0:12:42.800 And the end of Mary MG for me was like 0:12:42.840 --> 0:12:45.160 that in the sense that he just went off on 0:12:45.280 --> 0:12:49.080 like a kind of journey of finishing this song kind 0:12:49.080 --> 0:12:51.960 of for about forty minutes. He started making these crazy, 0:12:52.120 --> 0:12:55.360 like plastic, stretchy drums, and I was like, Ah, that 0:12:55.520 --> 0:12:58.560 is what I've been aching for for this song for 0:12:58.600 --> 0:13:01.960 the whole time. And I have been through every drum programmer, 0:13:02.480 --> 0:13:06.200 and I've used every single explaining word. I've gone through 0:13:06.240 --> 0:13:10.959 every sound on my tempest, and nothing is doing what 0:13:11.040 --> 0:13:12.880 I mean. And I don't know what I mean, but 0:13:12.920 --> 0:13:15.600 I can hear it. And then Nico just did it 0:13:15.679 --> 0:13:20.360 and I was like, nobody move, it's happening. Nobody moved. 0:13:21.120 --> 0:13:25.200 So yeah, there are a few times on the record that, yeah, 0:13:25.360 --> 0:13:27.480 just that kind of presence of something else sort of 0:13:28.240 --> 0:13:32.439 came through for sure. So exciting. Let's listen to the 0:13:32.520 --> 0:13:35.160 next one. We'll have more with Fgate Twigs and Rick 0:13:35.240 --> 0:13:41.439 Rubin when we come back. We're back with more from 0:13:41.440 --> 0:13:46.200 f Gate Twigs. How did that one happen? I was 0:13:46.240 --> 0:13:54.559 in this studio with my bandmate and my labelmate, Sian 0:13:54.640 --> 0:13:59.320 and Ethan, and it was quite a flow of consciousness 0:13:59.320 --> 0:14:01.560 from ber Ethan was on the piano and I was 0:14:04.040 --> 0:14:08.640 had like my helicon like voice machine, and I started 0:14:08.679 --> 0:14:11.680 like just making these like effects using that, like layering 0:14:11.760 --> 0:14:16.240 up my voice. And I didn't know that when I 0:14:16.240 --> 0:14:18.840 was using a helicon, I felt quite free, you know, 0:14:19.040 --> 0:14:22.720 like I didn't feel because I just felt like it 0:14:22.760 --> 0:14:25.480 was like a different character and it just like enabled 0:14:25.480 --> 0:14:28.480 me to kind of like have like this cadence that 0:14:30.800 --> 0:14:32.720 it's strange because I like kind of wrapped on my 0:14:32.800 --> 0:14:34.800 music before, but it was so distorted just started. It 0:14:34.840 --> 0:14:37.480 was like an alien rap kind of quite so synthetic, 0:14:37.800 --> 0:14:43.480 but through the helicon it sounded like grounded and earthy 0:14:43.840 --> 0:14:46.760 and like you said, that more personal and closer rather 0:14:46.800 --> 0:14:48.760 than like an alien rap, which is like far away 0:14:48.760 --> 0:14:54.320 and like esoteric science fiction. Yeah, exactly like us real. Yeah, 0:14:54.320 --> 0:14:56.480 it's like roots, it's like in the earth. It's like 0:14:56.560 --> 0:14:59.760 you know, a growling voice from inside your stomach or something. 0:15:00.200 --> 0:15:01.760 And so I just felt like I was able to 0:15:01.800 --> 0:15:06.000 just express like that kind of like frustration and hardness 0:15:06.040 --> 0:15:13.600 like easier. And and Ethan was playing these beautiful piano chords, 0:15:13.680 --> 0:15:19.880 and I was weirdly thinking about Elton John, you know, 0:15:19.960 --> 0:15:22.720 even as an incredible musician, Like he's just one of 0:15:22.720 --> 0:15:26.080 those guys that can play like five instruments to like 0:15:26.120 --> 0:15:30.720 a you know, ridiculously high standard, and you know he's like, yeah, yeah, 0:15:30.800 --> 0:15:33.080 sure I can do that, but like he's kind of, 0:15:35.280 --> 0:15:38.080 you know, very humble and sweet and and quite sort 0:15:38.120 --> 0:15:41.160 of reserved. But then he'll just like pick up the 0:15:41.240 --> 0:15:44.400 clarinet and like we'll pick up the saxophone and make 0:15:44.520 --> 0:15:47.960 the whole kind of rise at the end. So working 0:15:47.960 --> 0:15:51.000 with him was really exciting. And then I remember it 0:15:51.040 --> 0:15:54.840 was kind of done in one flow of consciousness. It 0:15:54.920 --> 0:15:57.760 was sort of like a jam, I guess. And then 0:15:58.760 --> 0:16:01.160 My Tempest was on and I started making these really 0:16:01.240 --> 0:16:03.960 like ugly sounds on the Tempest and I was like, 0:16:03.960 --> 0:16:05.960 oh my gosh, this is so cool. It's like some 0:16:06.160 --> 0:16:10.360 weird like musical but then like with these like Elton 0:16:10.520 --> 0:16:14.400 Johnny sort of like piano chords and then like my 0:16:14.520 --> 0:16:17.720 voice like going from this rap to the quite like operatic. 0:16:18.040 --> 0:16:20.160 But then it also felt really punk. You know, there 0:16:20.200 --> 0:16:22.200 was something about it that just felt really punk. And 0:16:22.200 --> 0:16:24.120 I remember my favorite brand, just ex Respects, and they 0:16:24.160 --> 0:16:27.240 always had like saxophone in their music, Like you'd think 0:16:27.320 --> 0:16:29.600 it would be like this kind of like Calamity, and 0:16:29.600 --> 0:16:31.120 then all of a sudden that the sacks would come 0:16:31.160 --> 0:16:34.680 in and I played this like crazy riff or line 0:16:34.720 --> 0:16:39.680 and and yeah, it just it felt punk to me. 0:16:39.800 --> 0:16:43.400 It just felt new, and it felt emotional and it 0:16:43.440 --> 0:16:47.960 felt exciting. And again that was one of the songs. 0:16:48.000 --> 0:16:51.840 It didn't change too much from the beginning, and it 0:16:51.880 --> 0:16:53.320 was I think it was like an eight minute jam, 0:16:53.320 --> 0:16:54.520 and I just went in and I just sat on 0:16:54.560 --> 0:16:57.520 the computer and just did a little like so it 0:16:57.720 --> 0:17:00.200 had some of the beat stuff even from the jam, 0:17:01.000 --> 0:17:03.440 some of the or was it more like ballad like 0:17:03.640 --> 0:17:05.720 and then it got amplified. I think it was more 0:17:05.720 --> 0:17:09.840 ballad like and then it got amplified from what I 0:17:09.840 --> 0:17:13.040 can remember, but I just remember one sign started playing, 0:17:13.040 --> 0:17:15.520 there's like crazy noises on top. I was like yes, 0:17:16.400 --> 0:17:20.400 I was like, yes, it's so ugly and like harsh 0:17:20.400 --> 0:17:23.600 and yeah, but again, just the juxtaposition of that and 0:17:23.640 --> 0:17:26.880 the beauty of the piano, it's really magical to hear, 0:17:27.520 --> 0:17:32.080 and it pulls us in different directions, which draws us 0:17:32.200 --> 0:17:34.919 more into the emotion of the song because it doesn't 0:17:34.920 --> 0:17:38.320 just start and stop, and it's not a it's not 0:17:38.480 --> 0:17:41.320 linear in any way. Neither of the two that we've 0:17:41.320 --> 0:17:43.480 listened to both have sort of gone through these build 0:17:43.560 --> 0:17:48.959 processes where they don't they The first one didn't really change, 0:17:48.960 --> 0:17:51.720 but it felt like it grew and evolved. This one 0:17:51.760 --> 0:17:54.479 felt like it more changed but still felt like it 0:17:54.560 --> 0:17:57.600 was took us on this journey and it was a 0:17:57.640 --> 0:18:00.400 consistent journey, like it made sense to go on the road, 0:18:00.640 --> 0:18:04.640 which is crazy considering us. So it's so vast home 0:18:04.680 --> 0:18:07.320 with you, like there's so many different types of music 0:18:07.400 --> 0:18:11.200 in there, and like, yeah, it's crazy that it manages 0:18:11.280 --> 0:18:14.960 to hold itself together with such certainty. But again, it's 0:18:14.960 --> 0:18:18.280 just like you said, it started from the jail, so 0:18:18.280 --> 0:18:23.160 it's almost like it works on an unconscious level. Totally. Yeah, totally, 0:18:23.200 --> 0:18:27.680 it is unconscious. It is that which is the best way, 0:18:27.760 --> 0:18:31.120 isn't it? Absolutely yeah, it's the best one. We don't 0:18:31.160 --> 0:18:33.520 even know why it's good, but you just feel it's 0:18:33.520 --> 0:18:38.159 like you can't miss that feeling. Yeah. Sometimes I've been 0:18:38.160 --> 0:18:40.040 working with my manager now for a really long time, 0:18:40.119 --> 0:18:43.000 like he's known since I was nineteen years old, And 0:18:43.040 --> 0:18:45.240 sometimes when I write a good song and he'll be like, oh, 0:18:45.280 --> 0:18:47.080 that's so good, like you please and not be like 0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:49.160 I feel sad, and he'll be like wine, and I'll 0:18:49.200 --> 0:18:52.160 be like, I'm never going to make it again, because 0:18:52.160 --> 0:18:54.000 you know what I mean, Like those moments you're like, oh, 0:18:54.040 --> 0:18:57.160 I'm never gonna have that ever again. I can't even 0:18:57.200 --> 0:19:02.639 recreate it just kind have happened. Ye, some songs are 0:19:02.680 --> 0:19:06.520 easy to recreate. You know, when would a visual idea 0:19:06.640 --> 0:19:08.840 come up for a song like you did a video 0:19:08.880 --> 0:19:14.360 for that one. Yeah, I did. I think fairly soon 0:19:14.400 --> 0:19:16.640 after making that, when I just had this idea that like, 0:19:17.240 --> 0:19:20.160 it's like this kind of like linear, constant moving thing 0:19:20.240 --> 0:19:24.000 taking me back home. I'm always moving, I'm always like walking, 0:19:24.080 --> 0:19:26.600 or I'm always in a car, I'm always running until 0:19:26.720 --> 0:19:29.040 like I find what I was looking for, which was 0:19:29.080 --> 0:19:32.960 like my inner child, you know. So yeah, I had 0:19:33.000 --> 0:19:35.439 the idea for that actually quite soon after making it, 0:19:35.480 --> 0:19:38.480 that it just has to be this like constant running running, 0:19:38.560 --> 0:19:40.719 running from the town and from the country, so like 0:19:40.920 --> 0:19:44.000 just running back home, like running back nature, like running 0:19:44.640 --> 0:19:51.720 through like lakes and fields and houses and kind of 0:19:51.760 --> 0:19:54.239 having like a rebirth on the way. So yeah, the 0:19:54.280 --> 0:19:58.280 idea for that came. Where did the thought for closing 0:19:58.280 --> 0:20:04.680 and eye come from? Because to follow your gut, like 0:20:04.760 --> 0:20:08.239 I had like tumors in my uterus, so like my 0:20:08.320 --> 0:20:12.560 stomach became so sensitive. I had like stomach ache for 0:20:12.600 --> 0:20:16.240 so long. But I started to think it actually became 0:20:16.240 --> 0:20:19.119 my intuition in a weird way, because if I ate 0:20:19.160 --> 0:20:21.040 something bad, I would have the worst stomach ache ever. 0:20:21.480 --> 0:20:25.000 So my stomach became this really strong sense of intuition, 0:20:25.040 --> 0:20:28.359 and even if I felt anxious, I'd get a stomach ache, 0:20:28.440 --> 0:20:30.520 or like you know, if someone upset me, I would 0:20:30.560 --> 0:20:33.320 get a stomach ache. Or it was really strange. It 0:20:33.400 --> 0:20:39.000 was like all my emotions became something so physical because basically, 0:20:39.040 --> 0:20:40.879 like my tumors were in my uterust, but they were 0:20:40.920 --> 0:20:44.840 sitting on my colon, so that I was just like irritated, 0:20:45.480 --> 0:20:50.800 and so just to be like in chronic pain like 0:20:50.840 --> 0:20:52.840 that all the time for a year and a half, 0:20:54.359 --> 0:20:57.480 that phrase like follow your gut just became like it 0:20:57.560 --> 0:21:00.159 wasn't even metaphorical for me anymore. It was actually just 0:21:00.800 --> 0:21:05.480 you know a huge part of my feeling life. And 0:21:06.880 --> 0:21:09.240 so to put like my eye in my stomach because 0:21:09.320 --> 0:21:11.960 I just felt like I was like seeing more through 0:21:12.000 --> 0:21:14.959 my stomach than I was. You know, as soon as 0:21:15.000 --> 0:21:17.239 I tried to get too heavy about things or like 0:21:17.720 --> 0:21:20.240 you know, be too up here like in my mind 0:21:20.359 --> 0:21:23.240 or in my eyes about things, my life wasn't working. 0:21:23.280 --> 0:21:24.919 But then when I was like, what did you have 0:21:25.000 --> 0:21:27.639 to what did you have to do to heal the situation, 0:21:27.960 --> 0:21:31.000 I had surgery. Yeah, I had six five wood humors 0:21:31.080 --> 0:21:34.399 removed like a couple of years ago now, Yeah, but 0:21:34.440 --> 0:21:36.879 it was a long process of healing, like then you've 0:21:36.880 --> 0:21:39.760 got a scar tissue and like, yeah, it was really intense, 0:21:40.000 --> 0:21:41.399 but that's what I was kind of going through when 0:21:41.400 --> 0:21:44.280 I was making Magdalen, that kind of pain and then 0:21:44.320 --> 0:21:48.679 the healing process. It's it's interesting because it feels like 0:21:48.720 --> 0:21:51.720 a healing process record. I wouldn't have if you didn't 0:21:51.720 --> 0:21:53.840 tell the story, I wouldn't have not made the connection, 0:21:53.920 --> 0:21:56.960 but hearing it, it feels like that, and it feels 0:21:56.960 --> 0:22:00.000 like the healing part is that sort of that spirit, 0:22:00.000 --> 0:22:04.639 actual uplifting element of it where even though parts of 0:22:04.640 --> 0:22:08.560 it are scary or dark, it still has this sort 0:22:08.560 --> 0:22:16.280 of overwhelming positive flow to it. Yeah. Yeah, it's weird, 0:22:16.280 --> 0:22:19.080 like it wasn't a it was a hard healing process, 0:22:19.160 --> 0:22:21.520 but I mean I wouldn't change it. I would go 0:22:21.560 --> 0:22:25.320 through all again, not just for the music, but just 0:22:25.359 --> 0:22:33.439 for myself and learning to deal with trauma alone and 0:22:35.720 --> 0:22:39.800 learning to be like independent emotionally to a son extent, 0:22:39.920 --> 0:22:42.520 and knowing that I can only depend on myself truly, 0:22:43.200 --> 0:22:51.320 And that was interestingly, although being an only child, my mom, 0:22:51.359 --> 0:22:53.520 being a single parent for a lot of my upbringing, 0:22:54.520 --> 0:22:58.760 and always being incredibly independent, being put in a position 0:22:58.800 --> 0:23:07.280 where I was forced to deal with something really serious 0:23:07.320 --> 0:23:15.000