1 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:06,560 Speaker 1: You're listening to Law and Order Criminal Justice System, a 2 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:11,760 Speaker 1: production of Wolf Entertainment and iHeart podcasts. 3 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:17,640 Speaker 2: In the criminal justice system, landmark trials transcend the courtroom 4 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:21,080 Speaker 2: to reshape the law. The brave many women who investigate 5 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 2: and prosecute these cases are part of a select group 6 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:33,120 Speaker 2: that is defined American history. These are their stories. April 7 00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:38,440 Speaker 2: nineteen eighty three, The home of Joe Bonano, Tucson, Arizona. 8 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:42,479 Speaker 3: You have said the US government has tried to destroy you, 9 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:43,840 Speaker 3: that's sure. 10 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:44,960 Speaker 4: Why have they. 11 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:46,159 Speaker 5: Failed to destroy you? 12 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:47,479 Speaker 6: They haven't failed you. 13 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:50,640 Speaker 3: They haven't failed well yet they may still get you. 14 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 7: For sure. 15 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 6: All my life I've been misunderstore it. I just the 16 00:00:56,800 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 6: rule of my family. 17 00:00:58,360 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 7: As a father. 18 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:04,119 Speaker 1: When Joe Banano, the head of the Banano crime family, 19 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 1: went on sixty Minutes in nineteen eighty three, he did 20 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:10,959 Speaker 1: something nobody had expected him to do. He admitted the 21 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:15,360 Speaker 1: very existence of the mafia. In his book, he all 22 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 1: but confirmed the cooperation between the five major crime families, 23 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:23,840 Speaker 1: including things like dividing territory and sharing profits. 24 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:27,160 Speaker 5: Why was your fight to survive? 25 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:30,000 Speaker 6: To protect your life? 26 00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:32,480 Speaker 5: Make sure dot you so sick? 27 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:37,399 Speaker 1: Banano was promoting a memoir of his life in crime, 28 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 1: a public display of hubris that would have been unheard 29 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 1: of in Lucky Luciano's day. So while being the first 30 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 1: former boss to publicly acknowledge the existence of the mafia, 31 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 1: Banano had also made a grave miscalculation. 32 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 7: Back then, every time an OC figure was arrested and 33 00:01:57,120 --> 00:02:00,520 Speaker 7: go to Troo or something like that, the defense atorneys. 34 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:04,520 Speaker 7: Their argument was this stake organized crime, lacos and nostra. 35 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 7: This is like a miss. This is a government's theory. 36 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:11,079 Speaker 7: I mean, this doesn't exist. So that was the defense 37 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 7: back then. 38 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 1: Charlotte Lang is a former FBI supervisor who spent years 39 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:18,919 Speaker 1: investigating organized crime. 40 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:23,840 Speaker 7: What had happened was Banano. His book was about his 41 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:28,560 Speaker 7: problems with the Commission, and he basically tells you that 42 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:32,400 Speaker 7: the commission existed, and he hid out from the four 43 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:34,799 Speaker 7: other bosses for a period of time. 44 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 1: The commission was like the executive board of the five 45 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 1: families running and ruining New York City and beyond, and 46 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:47,520 Speaker 1: Banano's admission of its existence gave law enforcement a new 47 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 1: angle of attack, because proof of a commission meant a 48 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:54,640 Speaker 1: way to link the families together and prove a conspiracy. 49 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 1: No longer would crime bosses be insulated from the ruthless 50 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:02,640 Speaker 1: and violent crimes of their underlings. They could be held 51 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 1: responsible for every act of extortion, theft, bribery, or murder 52 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 1: that occurred at their behest. In short, it was a 53 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:14,880 Speaker 1: game changer and an opportunity not lost on Charlotte Lang, 54 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:18,799 Speaker 1: her FBI partner Pat Marshall, and the newly appointed US 55 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:19,919 Speaker 1: Attorney for New York. 56 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 7: I had in one morning and Pap turned to me 57 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:27,679 Speaker 7: and he said, Rudy wants that book that Bonano wrote. 58 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:31,360 Speaker 1: Through the eyes of New York's top cop. Banano's book 59 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:34,080 Speaker 1: was essentially a manual for taking down the mob. 60 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:38,119 Speaker 8: Question you here increasingly now is who is Rudolph Juliani 61 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 8: and what does he want? 62 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:44,160 Speaker 1: What he wanted was clear, put these bosses in front 63 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 1: of a jury and behind bars. 64 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 4: You're not with the mob because you want to be. 65 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:04,040 Speaker 8: It's the gangster that decides whether you're his associated on. 66 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 7: If you like your life, you will vote to acquit. 67 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:12,000 Speaker 1: I'm Anisee and Nicolazzi, my father should have been a 68 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:17,400 Speaker 1: dead man from Wolf Entertainment and iHeart podcasts. This is 69 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:27,159 Speaker 1: Law and Order Criminal justice system. Did you know anything 70 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:31,640 Speaker 1: about organized crime before you are now assigned to an 71 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:33,159 Speaker 1: organized crime task force. 72 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:33,680 Speaker 4: No. 73 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:39,000 Speaker 7: I had seen the movie The Godfather, but that was it. 74 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:44,320 Speaker 1: Charlotte's story of becoming an FBI agent is a unique one. 75 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:48,720 Speaker 7: When I was in college, the first two years, I 76 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 7: was in pre med because I was either going to 77 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 7: be a psychiatrist or veterinarian, was what I was thinking. 78 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:58,719 Speaker 7: And after I finished my sophomore year, I thought to myself, 79 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 7: I don't want to do this. I would read the 80 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:05,039 Speaker 7: Washington Post and I saw this article the CIA was 81 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 7: recruiting people. A friend of mine who was really really 82 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:11,920 Speaker 7: close to I said to her, I said, I'm seriously 83 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 7: thinking of putting in for it, and she goes, oh, no, no, no, 84 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:18,040 Speaker 7: no no. And she told me why because she had 85 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:20,479 Speaker 7: a good friend who was a CIA agent. You don't 86 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:22,480 Speaker 7: want to do this. You won't be able to keep 87 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 7: your pets and everything like that. So I thought to myself, 88 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:29,160 Speaker 7: the FBI, Well that's kind of similar. 89 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:33,520 Speaker 1: So instead of the CIA, Charlotte applied to the FBI, 90 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 1: thinking she'd travel the world instead. Charlotte soon ended up 91 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 1: in New York working one of the most notoriously difficult 92 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 1: beats in the Bureau Organized Crime. Adding to the challenge, 93 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:51,240 Speaker 1: remnants of the FBI's outdated g man culture, man being 94 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 1: the operative word. 95 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:57,039 Speaker 7: A particular supervisor said to me, I didn't ask for you. 96 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 7: Women can't work organized crime. You will be the only 97 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:05,080 Speaker 7: woman on this squad as long as I'm here. That 98 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:07,440 Speaker 7: was my introduction to Welcome to New York. 99 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 1: But despite the challenges, Charlotte hit the ground running, getting 100 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:14,840 Speaker 1: her first assignment from Jim Kostler. 101 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:18,040 Speaker 7: Jim said to me, I'm going to put you on 102 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 7: the Genevieve's squad until everybody's here and we're up and running. 103 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:27,280 Speaker 1: Charlotte joined street teams, rounding of low level gangsters and 104 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 1: drug dealers. 105 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 7: I mean, yes, it was dangerous in many instances, but 106 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 7: it was exciting. 107 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 1: Her skills were soon recognized, even by the boss who'd 108 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:40,320 Speaker 1: believed that women didn't belong working organized crime. 109 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 7: He quickly realized that he could depend on me. 110 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:50,240 Speaker 1: Charlotte was eventually partnered with Pat Marshall to gather evans 111 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 1: that would later be crucial to the Commission case. 112 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:57,760 Speaker 7: So the squad that I was assigned to was the 113 00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 7: Bonano family squad, and there were a couple ti capos 114 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:05,920 Speaker 7: in the family that we were going to zero in on. 115 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 1: And part of that was looking to the past, namely 116 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:14,160 Speaker 1: the assassination of Carmine Galante. While it occurred a couple 117 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 1: of years before Charlotte joined the Bureau, they sensed its significance. 118 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 7: We all knew that to kill a boss in a family, 119 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 7: you had to have the commission approval. So, in other words, 120 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 7: if you a boss of a family and you go 121 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 7: to a meeting where there's only four of you, it's like, 122 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:39,240 Speaker 7: you know, somebody is in trouble at that particular point. 123 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 1: Which means if they could solve Galante's murder, they might 124 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:46,680 Speaker 1: have the evidence they needed to prove a criminal conspiracy 125 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 1: between the five families, and like Domino's Down, they would fall. 126 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 1: And while Charlotte and the FBI were gathering their evidence, 127 00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 1: the ambitious new US Attorney for New York, Rudy Giuliani, 128 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 1: was tasked with a different job, assembling a rockstar team 129 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 1: of young lawyers to take on the city's most infamous criminals. 130 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 6: My name is Michael Cherdoff, and in nineteen eighty five 131 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:17,920 Speaker 6: was a relatively new assistant United States Attorney in the 132 00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 6: Southern District of New York U S Attorney's. 133 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 1: Office Michael Chertoff is a former Secretary of Homeland Security 134 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 1: and the co author of the US Patriot Act. But 135 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 1: when he started in the US Attorney's office, he was 136 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:33,720 Speaker 1: still pretty green, a recent law school graduate eager to 137 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 1: earn his stripes. 138 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:38,960 Speaker 6: So I started in the four of eighty three. I 139 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:41,560 Speaker 6: tried three or four small cases in what they called 140 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:45,079 Speaker 6: general crimes in order to begin to just get accustomed 141 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 6: to trying cases in front of a jury in a courtroom. 142 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 1: But with his command of the courtroom, Michael quickly attracted 143 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 1: the attention of his superior, who was eager to surround 144 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:59,200 Speaker 1: himself with just the right personalities and skill sets for 145 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:00,920 Speaker 1: his fight against the mob. 146 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:05,600 Speaker 6: The assignment actually came to me in eighty four, and 147 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:08,960 Speaker 6: what happened was I had been in general crimes, and 148 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:11,440 Speaker 6: the US Attorney at the time, whose name will be 149 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:15,080 Speaker 6: very familiar to you, Rudolf W. Guliani, reached out to 150 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:18,120 Speaker 6: my unit chief and said, I've got an idea for 151 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 6: a case I want to prosecute and try myself. I 152 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:24,560 Speaker 6: want you to assign Michael Cherdoff to help me do that. 153 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 6: Who helped me put the case together, do the investigation, 154 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 6: and then he can assist me at the trial. My 155 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:33,199 Speaker 6: unit chief came to me and said, the US Attorney 156 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 6: would like you to work on this case with him. 157 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 6: He'll try it, but you'll get an opportunity to be 158 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 6: at the trial and participate and do the investigation. And 159 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:44,320 Speaker 6: it's a great opportunity. So I said, fine, I'm happy 160 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 6: to do it. 161 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:47,680 Speaker 1: Michael's first step was learning to plan. 162 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:51,560 Speaker 6: The way the US attorney was thinking about it was 163 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:54,960 Speaker 6: this there had been a series of cases under the 164 00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:59,959 Speaker 6: Racketeering Statute that were focused on attacking an entire organi 165 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:05,240 Speaker 6: crime family as an organization, because the Racketeering Statute really 166 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:08,000 Speaker 6: allowed you, for the first time to build a case 167 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:12,600 Speaker 6: that was organizationally focused in not just individual crimes. 168 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 1: In other words, it was custom made for taking down 169 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 1: the mob. 170 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 6: And his idea was supposing, instead of just looking family 171 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:26,560 Speaker 6: by family, we do a case involving the board of 172 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 6: Directors of the American Mafia, which is known as the Commission. 173 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:35,000 Speaker 1: And central to their strategy would be Joe Banano's ill 174 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:37,880 Speaker 1: conceived criminal memoir, and in the. 175 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 6: Book he discussed his experiences as a mob boss, including 176 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:46,600 Speaker 6: talking about being on the Commission, and Giuliani thought, well, 177 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:50,440 Speaker 6: that's great, this is a roadmap to a case involving 178 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 6: the Commission. And actually we're going to try to force 179 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 6: Banana to testify so we can actually use his evidence 180 00:10:57,080 --> 00:10:58,560 Speaker 6: about the background of the Commission. 181 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:01,760 Speaker 1: But it was harder to deal with than they'd hoped. 182 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:04,720 Speaker 1: By this time, he had moved to Tucson, Arizona, and 183 00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:07,080 Speaker 1: was claiming to have a number of health issues. 184 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 7: Even in nineteen fifty seven he feigned his heart attack 185 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 7: and that he would die if he had to travel. 186 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 1: But Giuliani was persistent. At first, Banana claimed he was 187 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:22,000 Speaker 1: too ill to go to New York and provide testimony, 188 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:24,040 Speaker 1: so the government went to him. 189 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 7: Well, of course, Rudy being Rudy, he was like, we're 190 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:30,160 Speaker 7: going out there and we're going to do it at 191 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 7: the hospital. 192 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 1: Just picture the scene. It's an entire army of agents, prosecutors, 193 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:39,599 Speaker 1: defense attorneys, judges all getting on a plane. 194 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:43,560 Speaker 7: This was like this traveling show from New York. This 195 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:47,240 Speaker 7: was like big news in Arizona because his famous United 196 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 7: States attorney in New York who's taking the mob down, 197 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 7: is coming to Tucson. And so what happened was we 198 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:59,560 Speaker 7: had this proceeding as to whether he was physically fit 199 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:03,280 Speaker 7: enough to testify. Of course, his doctor gone on and 200 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 7: said that he had this going on, and that going on. 201 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:10,560 Speaker 1: Banano's doctor was a member of his family and just 202 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:15,000 Speaker 1: a med student. But the government had their own expert too. 203 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:19,320 Speaker 7: We had a doctor from New York who had examined him. 204 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:22,720 Speaker 7: And this doctor, of course was stellar, and with his 205 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:25,200 Speaker 7: credentials in every sale the cent, there's no reason why 206 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:26,960 Speaker 7: he can't travel to New York. 207 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 1: Still, Banana refused to travel or cooperate, but Giuliani wasn't done. 208 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:36,959 Speaker 1: He asked the judge to hold Banano in contempt of court. 209 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:41,600 Speaker 1: The judge complied, and from there Banano went to prison, 210 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 1: the longest time that this aging mobster had ever been 211 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:48,200 Speaker 1: locked up, and he stayed there for over a year. 212 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:52,720 Speaker 1: With or without Joe Banano's testimony, they would need hard 213 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:56,640 Speaker 1: evidence proving that the five families had conspired to commit 214 00:12:56,720 --> 00:13:13,920 Speaker 1: crimes of all shapes and sizes, including In nineteen eighty five, 215 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 1: Michael Cherdoff was a young federal prosecutor in the office 216 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:21,200 Speaker 1: of then US Attorney Rudy Giuliani, who was building a 217 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:23,560 Speaker 1: case that they hoped would take down the New York 218 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 1: mob once and for all. The scope of the investigation 219 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:28,439 Speaker 1: was huge. 220 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:33,199 Speaker 6: There had been a series of family based investigations going on, 221 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:38,120 Speaker 6: and some of those involved very extensive electronic surveillance wire 222 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:39,679 Speaker 6: tapping your bugs. 223 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 1: In addition to secret recording devices. The FBI embarked on 224 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:48,679 Speaker 1: more target emissions too, surveilling specific suspects to witness their 225 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:54,200 Speaker 1: interactions with other mobsters firsthand. Here's former FBI agent Charlotte Lang. 226 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:57,600 Speaker 7: There were certain days where I used to say to myself, 227 00:13:57,640 --> 00:13:59,840 Speaker 7: I can't believe I'm getting paid to do that. 228 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:05,320 Speaker 1: On multiple occasions, Charlotte was sent in undercover infiltrating the 229 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:09,800 Speaker 1: Genevese family to eavesdrop on conversations. 230 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 7: When we had information from the wires, like when fat 231 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 7: Tony Sellerno would meet with Paul Castellano, and of course 232 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:18,200 Speaker 7: they would go to really nice restaurants in New York 233 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:22,360 Speaker 7: and we would go in maybe two women, sometimes there 234 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 7: were three of us, try to get at a table 235 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:29,240 Speaker 7: close to observe what was going on two. 236 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:32,560 Speaker 1: Of New York's most infamous mob bosses, Tony Sellerno of 237 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:36,640 Speaker 1: the Genovese family and Paul Castellano, head of the Gambino family. 238 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 1: It was no small feat to go after Paul Castellano. 239 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:44,800 Speaker 1: At the time, the Gambino family was arguably the most 240 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:48,560 Speaker 1: powerful of all the families, and Castellano sat at the top. 241 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:52,800 Speaker 1: He was a savvy businessman known for his cutthroat approach 242 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 1: to negotiating major deals. When it came to the financial 243 00:14:56,520 --> 00:15:02,840 Speaker 1: dealings of the mob, Castellano was arbitern. For Charlotte, listening 244 00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:05,400 Speaker 1: in on a mob boss was just another day at work, 245 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 1: and as it turned out, the female FBI agents had 246 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:12,360 Speaker 1: some advantages that the old guard had underestimated. 247 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:16,840 Speaker 7: Karin Higgins, who was on the Columbo squad, she was 248 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 7: about seven months pregnant, and so when we went into 249 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 7: this restaurant, I spotted them. As soon as we came 250 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:26,200 Speaker 7: through the door, I said to the may Or D, 251 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:28,920 Speaker 7: I said, can we sit over there, as you could see, 252 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:32,160 Speaker 7: my friend is pregnant and she shouldn't be sitting in 253 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:33,680 Speaker 7: a draft or anything like that. 254 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:37,960 Speaker 1: The Maitre d sat the women directly next to Castellano 255 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:42,680 Speaker 1: and Salerno, access unheard of from any of their male counterparts. 256 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 7: When we went back to the office to write up 257 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:48,320 Speaker 7: the three to two of what we saw what we heard, 258 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:51,400 Speaker 7: I said, I didn't think this was ever going to 259 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 7: come to an end. They were very animated because they 260 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:58,560 Speaker 7: were disputing the profits that were coming from the shakedowns 261 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:00,560 Speaker 7: of the cement companies. 262 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 1: Salerno was also a major focus in the investigation, particularly 263 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:09,680 Speaker 1: because the Genovese family was so involved with the construction industry, 264 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:14,120 Speaker 1: and as Michael Cherdoff explains, that concrete business was big 265 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:16,920 Speaker 1: business for the mob, including the Commission. 266 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:21,840 Speaker 6: It was all about this construction issue. How they controlled 267 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:26,119 Speaker 6: all the concrete being poured to build buildings in Manhattan, 268 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:29,160 Speaker 6: and two percent went to the family that controlled the 269 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:32,400 Speaker 6: particular labor union, and the other two percent went to 270 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 6: the Commission to be divided up among the members of 271 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:36,920 Speaker 6: the Commission and their families. 272 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:40,400 Speaker 1: So basically, the money first went to the top and 273 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:43,960 Speaker 1: then trickled down within each family from there, and the 274 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:47,880 Speaker 1: FBI heard all about it. The Concrete Club, as it 275 00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:51,600 Speaker 1: became known, would become key evidence, so its inner workings 276 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 1: became extremely familiar to the prosecutors working the case, including 277 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:58,920 Speaker 1: another prosecutor who soon joined the team. 278 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:04,320 Speaker 4: My name is John Savarice, and I was an assistant 279 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:07,640 Speaker 4: US attorney in the US Attorney's Office for the Southern 280 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:11,119 Speaker 4: District of New York here in Manhattan. I think I 281 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:14,359 Speaker 4: didn't know a whole lot more than anyone who saw 282 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:17,919 Speaker 4: the Godfather movies knew all of which of course I 283 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 4: had seen because they're terrific films, but you very quickly 284 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:26,400 Speaker 4: realized that that's Hollywood and it's not, in fact, anything 285 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:28,119 Speaker 4: like what the Mob is really like. 286 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:32,719 Speaker 1: John was assigned to assist Michael Chertoff and Rudy Giuliani. 287 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:36,560 Speaker 4: So the first things I started working on was helping 288 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:40,600 Speaker 4: to put witnesses into the grand jury, helping to assemble 289 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 4: additional evidence that would go into the grand jury, and 290 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:48,440 Speaker 4: helping to craft what would be the ultimate superseding indictment, 291 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:50,120 Speaker 4: the one that we went to trial on. 292 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:54,800 Speaker 1: By this time, enough evidence had been gathered that prosecutors 293 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:57,199 Speaker 1: felt ready to present their case to a grand jury, 294 00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:01,000 Speaker 1: which meant this case was likely heading for true and 295 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 1: one of the central pieces to their case would be concrete. 296 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:09,120 Speaker 4: What we were doing was trying to build out what 297 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:13,320 Speaker 4: is called the Club scheme or the club aspect of 298 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 4: the Commission case, and that was the whole narrative around 299 00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:23,159 Speaker 4: the extortion of the concrete industry in New York to 300 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:28,479 Speaker 4: extract penalty from each concrete contractor in order that they 301 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:33,280 Speaker 4: be assured labor peace because the Mob had infiltrated the 302 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:36,280 Speaker 4: chief unions that did that kind of work. 303 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:41,639 Speaker 1: Labor unions cooperated because of bribes, corrupted leadership elections, and 304 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:43,480 Speaker 1: of course physical violence. 305 00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:48,760 Speaker 4: And so the threat was, if you don't pay us 306 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 4: what we want, we'll shut your job down. We'll have 307 00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:56,000 Speaker 4: the union that we essentially control go out on strike, 308 00:18:56,400 --> 00:19:00,280 Speaker 4: and that is devastating obviously to a construction company. 309 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:06,000 Speaker 1: The Mob pushed city construction costs up by about twenty percent. 310 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:09,320 Speaker 1: By the late eighties, it was reported that as much 311 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:13,119 Speaker 1: as seventy five percent of New York's construction industry was 312 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:14,399 Speaker 1: controlled by the MOB. 313 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:19,280 Speaker 4: We spent a lot of time with several leaders of 314 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:24,119 Speaker 4: construction companies that had been victimized by this commission driven 315 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:28,560 Speaker 4: scheme to get an understanding of what building projects were 316 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:33,120 Speaker 4: impacted by the scheme, how they felt, what drove them 317 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:35,879 Speaker 4: to do what they agreed to do, and why. 318 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:40,560 Speaker 1: But the cooperation of these legitimate business owners was given 319 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:44,000 Speaker 1: at great risk to lives and livelihoods. 320 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:48,359 Speaker 4: I do remember getting the strong sense of the fear 321 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 4: that they felt from Ralph Scopo, who was sort of 322 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:54,040 Speaker 4: the chief enforcer of the scheme. 323 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 1: Ralph Scopa was a member of the Columbo family. While 324 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 1: he sat as president of their youth union. Concrete contractors 325 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 1: were forced to pay thousands of dollars for labor peace 326 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 1: a one percent kickback was given to Scopo on their 327 00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 1: projects such as the public library in the Bronx, a 328 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:14,119 Speaker 1: police station in Brooklyn, and in addition to the city 329 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:16,879 Speaker 1: jail on Rikers Island. He was a man who was 330 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:18,560 Speaker 1: not afraid to intimidate others. 331 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:23,560 Speaker 4: We had a tape recording of Ralph Scopo in a 332 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:28,359 Speaker 4: conversation with one of these contractors and he referenced something 333 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:33,000 Speaker 4: that had been in the newspapers about a mob hit 334 00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:37,760 Speaker 4: someone who had been murdered. He said roughly something like, well, 335 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:41,359 Speaker 4: you know, you don't want that to happen to you, which, 336 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:45,400 Speaker 4: of course was terrorizing the person on the receiving end 337 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:47,320 Speaker 4: of that message. 338 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:51,359 Speaker 1: But despite the huge scale of the operation, most of 339 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:55,280 Speaker 1: these transactions were handled in person by mob members, and 340 00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:58,720 Speaker 1: this worked to the FBI's advantage because it's easier to 341 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:01,400 Speaker 1: tail a couple of soldiers than the commission itself. 342 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:07,199 Speaker 4: It's happening usually in cash, person to person, and we 343 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:11,960 Speaker 4: did have tape recorded evidence at trial of various members 344 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 4: of the mob who were the kind of footmen on 345 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:17,120 Speaker 4: the ground running the scheme. 346 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:20,720 Speaker 1: And because it was also profitable, it was something that 347 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:24,119 Speaker 1: all five of the families participated in, so cracking the 348 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 1: Concrete Club would be the surest way to prove their 349 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:33,960 Speaker 1: criminal cooperation. So law enforcement worked from all angles, planting 350 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:38,720 Speaker 1: bugs and wire taps, conducting surveillance, hoping to gather incriminating 351 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:42,160 Speaker 1: conversations about the Concrete Scheme that could be used in court. 352 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:44,800 Speaker 1: And the results spoke for themselves. 353 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:47,600 Speaker 4: Did you still on your opinions? 354 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:48,920 Speaker 5: Yeah? 355 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:52,199 Speaker 3: Gable only to win? 356 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:56,200 Speaker 4: Hey, I done, glad book. 357 00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:01,560 Speaker 1: That's little Ralphie Scopo talking to a man named alphonsald Ambrosia, 358 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:14,159 Speaker 1: a fellow member of the Colombo family, and they But 359 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:17,880 Speaker 1: Ralph Scopo and fat Tony Sealerno weren't the only mobsters 360 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:21,439 Speaker 1: that Charlotte kept tabs on. In the last episode, we 361 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:24,520 Speaker 1: talked about the nineteen eighty two bug planted in the 362 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:29,879 Speaker 1: black Jaguar of the Luksey Captain Salvator Avellino won. 363 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:32,320 Speaker 3: Provided that your guys, price is right. 364 00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:40,240 Speaker 6: Could price it's the same as DNA price. 365 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:49,440 Speaker 7: When you have a boss, an underboss and Consiglieria being 366 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:54,200 Speaker 7: driven around and they're chatting away about all their illegal activities. 367 00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:57,520 Speaker 7: I mean, it was a treasure trove of information. 368 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:01,919 Speaker 1: That Jaguar in the and the Jaguar bug would be 369 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:05,320 Speaker 1: a critical source of information in the government's case against 370 00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:09,760 Speaker 1: the commission. Another piece of evidence they wanted the cooperating 371 00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:14,040 Speaker 1: testimony of one of the conspirators themselves. Every time a 372 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:17,520 Speaker 1: mobster was picked up on charges and facing possible jail time, 373 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:20,480 Speaker 1: it was an opportunity to trade up for a higher 374 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:23,960 Speaker 1: ranking member of the family. Members of the mafia were 375 00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:28,160 Speaker 1: notoriously hard to flip, but the more incriminating evidence the 376 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:32,960 Speaker 1: FBI gathered, the stronger their leverage, and eventually they hit peterr. 377 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:38,119 Speaker 7: Then we had another boss by the name of Angelo Leonardo, 378 00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:41,439 Speaker 7: and he was the boss of the Cleveland family, and 379 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:44,800 Speaker 7: he went to jail for drug charges. 380 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:49,040 Speaker 1: But would this Cleveland mob boss agree to cooperate and 381 00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:53,080 Speaker 1: provide evidence from the witness stand The FBI was patient 382 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:54,800 Speaker 1: and persistent. 383 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:57,479 Speaker 7: And there was an agent in Cleveland that used to 384 00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:00,680 Speaker 7: go and visit him, say hey, Angelo, how you doing 385 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:04,240 Speaker 7: and everything I got So basically this agent got Angelo 386 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:05,119 Speaker 7: to flip. 387 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:11,439 Speaker 1: Lenardo was facing life for narcotics trafficking, so ultimately, in 388 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:15,240 Speaker 1: exchange for a reduced sentence, he agreed to spill everything 389 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:15,680 Speaker 1: he knew. 390 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:20,800 Speaker 7: He would basically say, how it works. You have associates, 391 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:25,200 Speaker 7: you have soldiers, you have made members. I called him 392 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:29,919 Speaker 7: Ange because we got to spend a Christmas together. Ange's 393 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:34,000 Speaker 7: story was his father was the head of the family 394 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:38,600 Speaker 7: at one particular point, but his father was murdered, and 395 00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:42,000 Speaker 7: the story goes, I think Ange might have been a 396 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:46,639 Speaker 7: teenager at the time, and his mother walked him down 397 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:49,960 Speaker 7: to a particular building and she handed him a gun 398 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:53,679 Speaker 7: and said, you go in there and you kill so 399 00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:57,399 Speaker 7: and so, because she had determined that's who had killed 400 00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:00,960 Speaker 7: her husband. And that's what Angelo did to this club, 401 00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:03,440 Speaker 7: shot him and ran out. 402 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:06,919 Speaker 1: His story speaks to why the mafia has proven to 403 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:11,440 Speaker 1: be so popular and even romanticized in pop culture. Despite 404 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:15,439 Speaker 1: their crimes often heartless and brutal, many could also be 405 00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:19,359 Speaker 1: disarmingly charming. Leonardo was one of them. 406 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:23,760 Speaker 6: He was polite, he was intelligent. He was able to 407 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:27,640 Speaker 6: give background about the commission, how the commission worked, what 408 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:30,880 Speaker 6: kinds of things they decided, general background on the way 409 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:31,919 Speaker 6: the mob operates. 410 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:35,320 Speaker 1: But before the case went to trial, the man in 411 00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:39,320 Speaker 1: charge of the entire investigation, who had staked his reputation 412 00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:43,280 Speaker 1: on success, would make the shocking decision to step away 413 00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:47,200 Speaker 1: and instead handle a political case that he believed would 414 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:51,080 Speaker 1: be even higher profile. And of course we're talking about 415 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:55,840 Speaker 1: the future mayor of New York, Rudy Giuliani. Here's Michael Cherdoff. 416 00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:00,679 Speaker 6: Now, the original concept was Rudy would try it, Giuliani, 417 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:04,320 Speaker 6: and I would be his second chair and assistant, so 418 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:08,200 Speaker 6: there'd be a more experienced prosecutor leading the entire prosecution. 419 00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:12,040 Speaker 6: So what happened is late eighty four or early eighty five, 420 00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:15,320 Speaker 6: I got called in by my unit chief and she 421 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,480 Speaker 6: said to me, you've read about this new indictment of 422 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:22,720 Speaker 6: Stanley Friedman, who is the Bronx Sparrow president. He's been 423 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 6: indicted for corruption charges five a Southern district. Rudy has 424 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:31,160 Speaker 6: decided he's going to try that case, so you're obviously 425 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:33,800 Speaker 6: going to take over being the lead lawyer in the 426 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 6: Commission case. And she said, I always thought this might happen, 427 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:39,199 Speaker 6: and I kind of warned you about this. 428 00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:43,920 Speaker 1: According to Giuliani, he believed the Commission case to be 429 00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 1: air tight, and he trusted his young lawyers to bring 430 00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:50,640 Speaker 1: the convictions home. His critics say that the city corruption 431 00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:54,439 Speaker 1: trial promised us squaring off against a political rival, and 432 00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:57,439 Speaker 1: that Giuliani hoped to ride that victory straight to the 433 00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:01,720 Speaker 1: Mayor's office. But regardless of his motives, his exit from 434 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:05,240 Speaker 1: the commission case left leadership in the hands of the 435 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 1: thirty two year old Michael Cherdoff. 436 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:10,840 Speaker 6: So it was a little bit like that famous play 437 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:13,920 Speaker 6: All About Eve, where the understudy winds up stepping into 438 00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:16,880 Speaker 6: the starring role. All of a sudden, I found myself 439 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:20,400 Speaker 6: as the lead prosecutor in the commission case. 440 00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:24,280 Speaker 1: Sitting in the second chair was an even younger John 441 00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:28,000 Speaker 1: Savay's Gil Childers crossed over the river from the Brooklyn 442 00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:31,080 Speaker 1: DIA's office to fill out the team. Together. They had 443 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:34,919 Speaker 1: less than fifteen years experience in the courtroom, and these 444 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,959 Speaker 1: three were about to face off with the entire New 445 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:40,040 Speaker 1: York City mob. Here's Gil. 446 00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 8: It was an incredible feeling on several levels. Whose bright 447 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,720 Speaker 8: idea was that to entrust this case to guys of 448 00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:51,000 Speaker 8: this experience level, no matter how competent you may or 449 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:51,920 Speaker 8: may not think they are. 450 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:55,440 Speaker 1: It was the kind of case that could make or 451 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:59,560 Speaker 1: break careers, but more importantly, a win that could finally 452 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:02,760 Speaker 1: break the mafia stranglehold on the citizens of New York. 453 00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:07,360 Speaker 1: And while they're at it, they might even solve a murder. 454 00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:23,199 Speaker 1: The three lawyer team decided to dig deeper into the 455 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:26,879 Speaker 1: murder of Carmen Galanti. Michael Cherdoff says it may have 456 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:29,320 Speaker 1: been the most important piece of the case. 457 00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:34,200 Speaker 6: An act of violence has a dramatic effect, unlike tapes 458 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:38,040 Speaker 6: or people talking about paying money, and it makes in 459 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:41,480 Speaker 6: a very real way, the jury understand that we're talking 460 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:44,160 Speaker 6: about here is not just you who gets money from 461 00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:47,600 Speaker 6: a contract, but who lives and dies. And the fact 462 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:49,720 Speaker 6: that you have a criminal organization that is willing to 463 00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:52,840 Speaker 6: chose someone in a restaurant, I think makes everybody sit 464 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:54,080 Speaker 6: up and take notice. 465 00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:58,080 Speaker 1: As you'll remember, Carma Galanti had emerged in the late 466 00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:01,719 Speaker 1: seventies as the de facto of the Banano crime family 467 00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:06,080 Speaker 1: while the actual boss, Rusty Rostelli, was in prison. When 468 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:09,720 Speaker 1: Galante was gunned down at a Brooklyn restaurant, his assailants 469 00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:13,440 Speaker 1: may have disappeared, but investigators knew that it could only 470 00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:17,600 Speaker 1: happen with approval from the Commission, which, if proven, would 471 00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:21,600 Speaker 1: tie them all to the crime. But to prove that 472 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:23,720 Speaker 1: the team knew they would have to start with the 473 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:27,719 Speaker 1: murder itself, a case that had so far gone cold. 474 00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 1: They went back with the one clear piece of evidence 475 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:37,720 Speaker 1: that they had the getaway car. A witness had identified 476 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:40,480 Speaker 1: the make and model, as well as a partial license plate. 477 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:44,720 Speaker 1: From that information, police quickly recovered the car. A print 478 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:47,360 Speaker 1: had been lifted from the back passenger door, but had 479 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:51,400 Speaker 1: not led to any identifications, at least not yet. But 480 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:54,640 Speaker 1: later investigators would have a Eureka moment. 481 00:29:56,160 --> 00:30:00,200 Speaker 8: Someone had the bright idea, well, maybe this is not 482 00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,120 Speaker 8: a fingerprint, maybe this is a palm print. 483 00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:06,760 Speaker 1: I think that the person was Michael Chertoff, And that's 484 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:09,760 Speaker 1: one of the things I love about homicide investigations. There's 485 00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:14,200 Speaker 1: always something new. They thought about how someone actually opens 486 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:17,200 Speaker 1: a car door, not with your fingertips, but with your 487 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:20,480 Speaker 1: open palm. So just maybe it was a pomp print 488 00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:23,120 Speaker 1: that could break this case that had sat dormant now 489 00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:24,760 Speaker 1: for years. 490 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:28,000 Speaker 8: A palm print at first blush looks very much like 491 00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:30,720 Speaker 8: a fingerprint depending on where it comes from, but you 492 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:34,440 Speaker 8: know the same swirl patterns, et cetera. It was decided 493 00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:37,000 Speaker 8: that we needed a full set of what are called 494 00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:40,520 Speaker 8: major case prints, which include not only the fingers but 495 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:44,560 Speaker 8: also the palms of each of the person's hands. 496 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:47,800 Speaker 1: It would prove to be a major break in the case. 497 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:50,920 Speaker 8: There had been a fair amount of inform and information 498 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:54,920 Speaker 8: that a Banano soldier at the time in nineteen seventy nine, 499 00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:59,120 Speaker 8: Brunlan Delcado was one of the shooters. 500 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:04,080 Speaker 1: If you'll remember Bruno and Dela Kado was someone that 501 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:08,000 Speaker 1: Joe Cantameso ran into on a wiretap job and Dela 502 00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:11,480 Speaker 1: Kado was a nervous wreck after his father sonny Red, 503 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:14,800 Speaker 1: was shot dead just a few blocks away. That was 504 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:17,280 Speaker 1: part of the so called Three Kapos murder. 505 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:21,360 Speaker 8: His prints were among those who were compared to that 506 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:24,640 Speaker 8: print in the car on the door handle and with 507 00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:28,280 Speaker 8: no avail, with no match, so Bruno was still a 508 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:32,040 Speaker 8: person of interest, but there was nothing to tie him to. 509 00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:35,959 Speaker 1: It, that is until they tested his pom prints. 510 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,800 Speaker 8: He was brought in and got a full set of prints, 511 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:44,480 Speaker 8: including his palm prints, and those were immediately sent to 512 00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:50,080 Speaker 8: the police NYPD. The fingerprint expert gus Lesnovitch looked at 513 00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:53,520 Speaker 8: it and took no time at all and banged at 514 00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:59,000 Speaker 8: Bruno's pom print on that door handle. It was really big. 515 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,240 Speaker 8: Vich had the crimes guys removed the door handle from 516 00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:06,640 Speaker 8: the car. He had that door handle in his office, 517 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:09,960 Speaker 8: but you could see that no one could have opened 518 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:14,080 Speaker 8: that door handle after that print was left without obscuring 519 00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:18,640 Speaker 8: that print. So you could effectively argue that the last 520 00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:22,440 Speaker 8: person who touched that door handle was the last person 521 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:26,800 Speaker 8: in that car. So it became pretty convincing proof that 522 00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:29,520 Speaker 8: in Delcata was one of the mass shooters and had 523 00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:31,240 Speaker 8: jumped into the backseat of that car. 524 00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:36,240 Speaker 1: The importance of the discovery cannot be overstated. It was 525 00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:39,000 Speaker 1: proof of the identity of one of the shooters in 526 00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:43,800 Speaker 1: Carmangalanti's murder, which had eluded law enforcement for years. It 527 00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:46,880 Speaker 1: also linked to another piece of evidence that had been 528 00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:50,000 Speaker 1: gathered the same day of the murder, which once again 529 00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:51,440 Speaker 1: pointed to in Delacado. 530 00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:55,200 Speaker 8: There was a club in Lower Manhattan called the Ravennite, 531 00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:58,560 Speaker 8: and this was a Gambino family social club, and it 532 00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:02,479 Speaker 8: was run by the underboss of the Gambino family at 533 00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:06,719 Speaker 8: the time. And if you weren't a member of the 534 00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:10,560 Speaker 8: family and more specifically the crew that sort of ran 535 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:13,280 Speaker 8: and hung out in that social club, you wouldn't go 536 00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:13,880 Speaker 8: into that. 537 00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:17,920 Speaker 1: Club, and authorities just happened to be surveilling the club 538 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:19,760 Speaker 1: on the day Glante was murdered. 539 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:23,200 Speaker 8: And about half an hour after the murders took place 540 00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:27,920 Speaker 8: in Delocado and a couple of other Banano guys show 541 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:33,160 Speaker 8: up at the ravenite and guys come out of the ravenite. 542 00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:37,840 Speaker 8: Bruno never goes in, but the consolieri of the Banana 543 00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:41,680 Speaker 8: family comes out of the ravennite with another guy or 544 00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:46,280 Speaker 8: two Gambino guys, and they have discussion, very animated discussion 545 00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:49,720 Speaker 8: with Bruno and these other guys, and then there's this 546 00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:53,080 Speaker 8: congratulatory handshake with Bruno and sort of a slap on 547 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:55,400 Speaker 8: the back. I mean, it's not like they were popping 548 00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:58,040 Speaker 8: champagne corks, but it was sort of like, all right, 549 00:33:58,560 --> 00:33:59,400 Speaker 8: something happened. 550 00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:06,120 Speaker 1: Together with the pomp print evidence, this meeting served as 551 00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:09,680 Speaker 1: proof of what law enforcement had long suspected. One that 552 00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,359 Speaker 1: Bruno and Delakato was one of the people who murdered 553 00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:16,320 Speaker 1: Carma Galanti, and two his appearance at the club also 554 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:19,520 Speaker 1: tied at least two families together in the crime. This 555 00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:22,040 Speaker 1: was the bow, if you will, one of the final 556 00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:25,720 Speaker 1: and most important puzzle pieces to tie the Commission case together. 557 00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:30,600 Speaker 6: It makes real in a way that just talking about 558 00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:35,440 Speaker 6: construction fraud and construction shakedowns doesn't that the mob is 559 00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:40,359 Speaker 6: a violent organization. It crystallizes what is the essence of 560 00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:44,160 Speaker 6: what lies behind the mob's power, which is the ability 561 00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:46,680 Speaker 6: to carry out violent actions, including murder. 562 00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:50,680 Speaker 1: But the video of the Indelacado meeting was not the 563 00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:52,120 Speaker 1: only riveting show in town. 564 00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:55,800 Speaker 6: There was one instance where the Commission as a whole 565 00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:59,319 Speaker 6: met somewhere in Staten Island and the FBI got wind 566 00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:01,799 Speaker 6: of itd was would say photographs. 567 00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:05,680 Speaker 1: A tip about the meeting came in from an anonymous source, 568 00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:10,160 Speaker 1: so on May fifteenth, nineteen eighty four, an FBI team 569 00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:15,239 Speaker 1: staked out the area and waited. Finally, around four pm 570 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:16,520 Speaker 1: they got what they needed. 571 00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:21,840 Speaker 5: The agents went out there with cameras and they photographed 572 00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:25,200 Speaker 5: all the bosses of the families and their number two 573 00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:29,120 Speaker 5: guys going into this house at the same time and 574 00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:31,000 Speaker 5: coming back out at the same time. 575 00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:36,080 Speaker 1: That was former FBI special Agent Jim Kostler, who oversaw 576 00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:39,240 Speaker 1: the team that captured the landmark meeting of mafia bosses. 577 00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:42,920 Speaker 1: Not since the Apple Likan meeting in nineteen fifty seven. 578 00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:47,680 Speaker 1: Had there been more clear proof of a commission gathering that. 579 00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:53,359 Speaker 5: Tony Solearro, Paul Costelano, Tony Tuscarolo, sam f Santaorro. 580 00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:57,720 Speaker 1: Was that the first time that you had them photographed, actually, 581 00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:01,080 Speaker 1: that you had this physical documentation of a commission meeting, 582 00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:03,319 Speaker 1: because you had the heads of all five families coming 583 00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:04,120 Speaker 1: and going. 584 00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:07,040 Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly, yeah, that was the first time we'd ever 585 00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:08,840 Speaker 5: seen them all together in one place. 586 00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:13,000 Speaker 1: The table was set. Chirt Off on his team finally 587 00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:17,040 Speaker 1: had everything they needed. They had bugs revealing conversations between 588 00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:20,160 Speaker 1: mob bosses and commission members. They had a number of 589 00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:24,560 Speaker 1: witnesses and turncoat mobsters willing to testify. They had evidence 590 00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:27,720 Speaker 1: of meetings with all the crime family leaders assembled together, 591 00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:33,120 Speaker 1: and they had commission members sanctioning acts of violence, specifically murder. 592 00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:38,200 Speaker 6: So you know, those were all the kind of major 593 00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:41,040 Speaker 6: sources of evidence. And what I had to do, which 594 00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:44,600 Speaker 6: took me about a year from nineteen eighty four into 595 00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:48,400 Speaker 6: early nineteen eighty five, I had to listen to everything. 596 00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:51,440 Speaker 6: I had to make sure it was accurately transcribed, and 597 00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:54,000 Speaker 6: then based on that I had to build the theory 598 00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:57,239 Speaker 6: of a case and that would lead to the indictment. 599 00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:02,320 Speaker 1: In February of nineteen eighty five, the lengthy indictment was complete, 600 00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:07,640 Speaker 1: including names of four mob bosses and five underbosses, Paul Castellano, 601 00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:11,520 Speaker 1: boss of the Gambino crime family, fat Tony Salerno, boss 602 00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:15,000 Speaker 1: of the Genoviz crime family, Tony Dux Caralo, boss of 603 00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:19,480 Speaker 1: lou Casey crime family, and Philip Rusty Ristelli, boss of 604 00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:25,120 Speaker 1: the Banano crime family, as well as multiple underbosses. Investigators 605 00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:28,120 Speaker 1: got the green light to make the arrests, so Charlotte 606 00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:31,319 Speaker 1: Lang and her FBI team, along with multiple other law 607 00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:35,960 Speaker 1: enforcement organizations, developed a synchronized plan to grab everyone at 608 00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:36,680 Speaker 1: the same time. 609 00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:40,640 Speaker 7: We had made the decision from the get go because 610 00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:44,160 Speaker 7: so many squads were involved in this. People from the 611 00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:49,200 Speaker 7: Columbo squad were going to arrest Carmine Pertico, new Rochelle 612 00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:53,359 Speaker 7: was going to handle arresting Fat Tony. That decision was 613 00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:57,319 Speaker 7: made that the different squads would handle the arrest and 614 00:37:57,640 --> 00:37:59,640 Speaker 7: I guess there was going to be some sort of 615 00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:02,880 Speaker 7: pupp felicity that was coming out. They were afraid it 616 00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:04,560 Speaker 7: was going to come out on the news. 617 00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:08,400 Speaker 1: In fact, a leak to the press almost blew their 618 00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:12,560 Speaker 1: element of surprise. A week before the scheduled arrest. News 619 00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:15,440 Speaker 1: of the gigantic case landed on the front page of 620 00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:19,120 Speaker 1: the daily news the next day. Taking no chances that 621 00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:22,239 Speaker 1: any of their targets would flee, agents rounded up the 622 00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:26,520 Speaker 1: major players. The mob bosses were charged and arranged a 623 00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:30,279 Speaker 1: trial date was set. In the meantime, the mobsters were 624 00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:32,960 Speaker 1: allowed to return home and await their day in court, 625 00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:37,160 Speaker 1: where they could only speculate and stew about potential traders 626 00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:41,320 Speaker 1: in their midst According to one informant, some vowed revenge, 627 00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:44,960 Speaker 1: while others were thought to be plotting to assassinate the 628 00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:48,040 Speaker 1: very lawyers who were poised to put them away, a 629 00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:53,000 Speaker 1: course of action ultimately rejected by the Commission. One thing 630 00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:57,400 Speaker 1: was clear. The government had mafia leadership feeling trapped, but 631 00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:00,600 Speaker 1: when backed in a corner, they might prove to be 632 00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:02,960 Speaker 1: they're most dangerous. 633 00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:06,600 Speaker 7: My bureau car was in the shop, so I was 634 00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:10,440 Speaker 7: catching a ride to go home with an agent on 635 00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:13,759 Speaker 7: the Genoese squad and we're sitting at the hall in 636 00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:16,560 Speaker 7: tunnel and we aren't listening to the radio, we aren't 637 00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:20,560 Speaker 7: doing anything, and he drops me off. I get home, 638 00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:22,800 Speaker 7: I start doing stuff and I turned on the TV 639 00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:26,360 Speaker 7: and that's how I found out the Castelano had been killed. 640 00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:30,520 Speaker 3: Shakespeare said of kings, uneasy lies the head that wears 641 00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:32,960 Speaker 3: a crown. The same might be said of those who 642 00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:35,839 Speaker 3: rise to the top of organized crime. They get there 643 00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:38,880 Speaker 3: by violence, and often as not they leave by violence. 644 00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:52,600 Speaker 2: Next time, on Law and Order Criminal Justice System, we. 645 00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:54,520 Speaker 5: Were right there in the thick of things whenever the 646 00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:57,160 Speaker 5: bodies were still laying on the street. It was chaos. 647 00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:01,480 Speaker 4: When the trial was first getting underway, the courtroom was 648 00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:02,640 Speaker 4: absolutely packed. 649 00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:05,879 Speaker 6: Well, you're most nervous about are the witnesses? Are they 650 00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:08,640 Speaker 6: gonna wither under cross examination? Are they gonna be able 651 00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:09,359 Speaker 6: to stand up? 652 00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:12,560 Speaker 7: He just sounded like a mob loost and the jury 653 00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:15,480 Speaker 7: was like hanging on every word he was saying. 654 00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:18,080 Speaker 8: You know, you certainly didn't want to be known as 655 00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:20,600 Speaker 8: the three guys who let the mob get off. 656 00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:28,560 Speaker 2: Law and Order Criminal Justice System is a production of 657 00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:33,920 Speaker 2: Wolf Entertainment and iHeart podcasts. Our host is Anna Sega Nicolazzi. 658 00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:38,640 Speaker 2: This episode was written by Trevor Young and Anna Sega Nicolazzi. 659 00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:43,840 Speaker 2: Executive produced by Dick Wolf, Elliott Wolf, and Stephen Michael 660 00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:49,759 Speaker 2: at Wolf Entertainment. On behalf of iHeartRadio executive produced by 661 00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:54,799 Speaker 2: Alex Williams and Matt Frederick, with supervising producers Trevor Young 662 00:40:55,000 --> 00:41:00,840 Speaker 2: and Chandler Mays and producers Jesse Funk, Nolms Griffin and Reali. 663 00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:06,640 Speaker 2: This season is executive produced by Anna Sega Nicolazzi, story 664 00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:12,560 Speaker 2: producer Walker lamond. Our researchers are Carolyn Talmage and Luke Stentz. 665 00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:17,240 Speaker 2: Editing in sound design by Rema O Kali, original music 666 00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:22,960 Speaker 2: by John O'Hara, original theme by Mike Post, additional music 667 00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:28,080 Speaker 2: by Steve Moore, and additional voice over by me Steve Zernkelton. 668 00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:33,440 Speaker 2: Special thanks to Fox five in New York, ABC and 669 00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:38,480 Speaker 2: CBS for providing archival material for the show. For more 670 00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:43,440 Speaker 2: podcasts from iHeartRadio and Wolf Entertainment, visit the iHeartRadio app, 671 00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:47,200 Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. 672 00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:48,680 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening.