1 00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:09,639 Speaker 1: The body of this beautiful girl, Vanessa Gain just twenty 2 00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:13,400 Speaker 1: years old. Family. We had hoped that we had prayed, 3 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:24,920 Speaker 1: but the search has ended. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. 4 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:32,800 Speaker 1: The search has ended, and now more questions than answers 5 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:38,000 Speaker 1: as we learn her murder could totally have been prevented, 6 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:43,519 Speaker 1: and at this hour we learn the horrific details of 7 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:47,760 Speaker 1: what this girl lived through before she was murdered and 8 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 1: buried in a vault of cement. I'm Nancy Grace. This 9 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:55,959 Speaker 1: is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. Take 10 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 1: a listen to this. People have been searching endlessly in 11 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 1: this area for Private First Class Vanessa Gillon now new 12 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:06,720 Speaker 1: Today officials as well as the Ghee family are waiting 13 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:10,400 Speaker 1: on an autopsy report to confirm identification of those remains. 14 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:13,240 Speaker 1: The head of Equisearch, the team responsible for locating the 15 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:15,920 Speaker 1: remains here, say that they found them yesterday in a 16 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:19,560 Speaker 1: shallow grave, CODC, very close to where they've been searching 17 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 1: all alta. They were in Washington, DC when they got 18 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:24,640 Speaker 1: the news that left them heartbroken. Almost all remains have 19 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:28,560 Speaker 1: been found at the same location that the investigation continues. Here. 20 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:31,119 Speaker 1: You are hearing our friends there at Fox forty four 21 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:34,440 Speaker 1: News That was Kendall Green reporting on the discovery of 22 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:38,919 Speaker 1: her body. But with me, the man who searched Anne 23 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:44,559 Speaker 1: helped find Vanessa, Tim Miller, our friend crime victim. Also 24 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 1: with me, doctor Bethany Marshall, renowned psycho analyst, joining me 25 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 1: out of Beveral University, author of Blood Beneath My Fate 26 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 1: on Amazon, Joseph Scott Morgan, Death Investigator special guest, Natalie Kawan, 27 00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 1: the attorney for Vanessa's family. But right now to Olivia 28 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:05,160 Speaker 1: leveda k xx VTV reporter who's been on the case 29 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 1: from the very beginning. Olivia, it just seems to get 30 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 1: worse because now we are learning about all the sex 31 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:18,680 Speaker 1: harassment this young girl went through but didn't reap more. 32 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:23,919 Speaker 1: Do we know about the way her body was found? Olivia? 33 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:28,920 Speaker 1: You know we've been covering this story since Vanessa went missing, 34 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:35,280 Speaker 1: and to learn yesterday that her body, the body was 35 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 1: found in a shallow grave with cement and rocks and 36 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 1: dirt poured over it. To anyone a cousin and aunt 37 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 1: of course a mom to think that this freshly mixed 38 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 1: cement was poured over her body, as Tim Miller described 39 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 1: for us to Natalie Kawan, joining us right now, who 40 00:02:56,360 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 1: has been with Vanessa's family throughout this horrible ordeal, And Natalie, 41 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 1: I just driving his vehicle from one search spot to 42 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:08,360 Speaker 1: the next and gets a phone call from the family 43 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:11,600 Speaker 1: and they're saying, well, what what what? We don't know anything, 44 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 1: what happened? And what more do we know? Right now? Natalie, 45 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:23,679 Speaker 1: horrible horrible details emerging about Vanessa's brutal death. And that's 46 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 1: a light stomach. Do not listen to this if you 47 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 1: want me to go into the details, Nancy, Well, I 48 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 1: gotta tell you something, Natalie. I've been to a lot 49 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 1: of murder scenes and attended a lot of autopsies, but 50 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 1: it hits me hard every time I hear the details 51 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 1: because I look at Vanessa and sister Ira tells us 52 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 1: loving and to hear how she was murdered. But you 53 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 1: know what, as I tell Joy's Natalie, we cannot turn 54 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 1: away from the truth. We cannot what happened. So yesterday, 55 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 1: after our press conference, we received a phone call from 56 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 1: the CIA telling us that the top agent they're all 57 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 1: in DC. They want to meet with us at four pm, 58 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 1: um CD guy in DC. It was two others. It 59 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 1: was about four or five men that wanted to meet 60 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:18,840 Speaker 1: with us and speak to us. UM. They said, we 61 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 1: heard what you said. We know you're doing these press conferences, 62 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:25,720 Speaker 1: and we just said, okay, it's about time. UM. And 63 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:27,919 Speaker 1: they had the two other agents that were involved in 64 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:32,839 Speaker 1: this in this UM investigation also available by Skype on 65 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:36,839 Speaker 1: that laptop. We go and we met at said JW. Marriott. 66 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:41,720 Speaker 1: I got an executive office space fill twenty second. Vanessa 67 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:46,719 Speaker 1: did go to work UM. Aaron Robinson met her in 68 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:51,080 Speaker 1: the armory room and Aaron said was actually harassing her. 69 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 1: She goes into the armory room to UM do her 70 00:04:54,640 --> 00:05:02,840 Speaker 1: world pictures of Sicily his girlfriend information background information. Cecially 71 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 1: is married to a former soldier. So Vanessa said, we're 72 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:13,719 Speaker 1: a carried person. You know. It's not only wrong, but 73 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:18,279 Speaker 1: it's also against the military rules. It's not right. I'm 74 00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:22,240 Speaker 1: going I have to report it. He said, no, you're not. 75 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 1: You're not going to ruin my career. He said. He 76 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 1: grabbed the first thing he could find, and that was 77 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:30,479 Speaker 1: a hammer, and started bludgeoning her head over and over. 78 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:33,520 Speaker 1: She wasn't getting knocked down quick enough, so he kept 79 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:39,919 Speaker 1: the bludgeoning, bludgeoning, bludgeoning her head skull in the armory room. 80 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:43,680 Speaker 1: The whole place was silvered blood. He took her body 81 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 1: and put it in I want to say pelican briefields. 82 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:49,919 Speaker 1: He wheeled it out. He put it on the side 83 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:55,839 Speaker 1: of the armory room. He went home. Six pm comes around, 84 00:05:55,880 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 1: He enters the base. He takes her body. He picks 85 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 1: it to that lake or the river, puts it there, 86 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:06,599 Speaker 1: and decides he can't do this by himself. He can't 87 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:10,039 Speaker 1: you bury her. He needs help. He caused his girlfriend, 88 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:13,920 Speaker 1: the sfily girl, the one who is and he calls her. 89 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 1: He said, get in the car. She gets in the 90 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:19,160 Speaker 1: car and he tells her, I have Vanessa's body in 91 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 1: a pelican grief at the lake. I need your help 92 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:26,159 Speaker 1: to bury her. They go to the to the river, 93 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 1: say go to the river. They first try to set 94 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 1: her light her body on fire. They try to burn 95 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 1: her body. They can't burn her body. They're having a 96 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 1: hard time burning her body. Then they decide to take 97 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 1: the machete out and start machetting, dismembering her whole body. 98 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:47,920 Speaker 1: They try to destroy it, try to put it in 99 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 1: different places, bury it. They use some kind of quick 100 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:56,239 Speaker 1: quick quick dry, some kind of stemm it um a product, 101 00:06:56,880 --> 00:06:59,680 Speaker 1: and try to. They do a shallow grave, put the 102 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:03,600 Speaker 1: sim on it, and they get rid of basically the evidence. 103 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 1: They threw the machete out the window. By the way, 104 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 1: with her phone they threw they destroyed her phone and 105 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 1: threw out the window. They threw the hammer out the 106 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 1: window when they're driving. This is what they're saying, and 107 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 1: they go about their business. Ironically. This all happened between 108 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 1: one and four, you know, about minutes to four in 109 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 1: the morning when they were burning her body and dismembering 110 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 1: her body with a machete. That time was when and 111 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 1: that's as sister Myra was arriving at the base. While 112 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 1: she's looking for her sister, they are dismembering her body. 113 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 1: Just really disgusting and spur I mean, I cried just 114 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 1: listening to this whole story. They tell us that he 115 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 1: did this crime between ten twenty three, ten thirty and 116 00:07:55,920 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 1: eleven thirteen in the room, which makes no sense. Has 117 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 1: and the rebuttal over and he killed and cleans up 118 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 1: the whole crime scene in forty three minutes. I asked 119 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 1: questions as to how can no one have seen this 120 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 1: in the video cameras, How can no one has heard 121 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 1: her screaming in the armory room when he was bludgeoning her. Um. 122 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 1: Then let's go go fast forward all this evidence, the statements, 123 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 1: the witnesses. You know, someone did see her him struggling 124 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 1: to take that um that pelican brief to his car. 125 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:35,560 Speaker 1: These people came forward and spoke about it. Some people 126 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:39,080 Speaker 1: talked about you know, seeing him all that stuff, um, 127 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 1: but they still did not They still did not get 128 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:51,240 Speaker 1: a warrant for his arrest or anything. They continued, I 129 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 1: could want to say to use conformatory bias, so couldn't 130 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:58,080 Speaker 1: be him. He had a polygrapher, they said, the best 131 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 1: polygrapher out there, who refused to get polygraph. But the 132 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 1: polygrapher then interviewed him and said, he's absolutely lying, going 133 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:10,199 Speaker 1: to his own suicide when he was seeing kept them 134 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 1: on the base. They were able to bring charges of 135 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 1: or not charges, but keep him on the base. With 136 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 1: the COVID stuff. They were able to tell him that 137 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 1: he should stay on the base because he can't go 138 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:24,839 Speaker 1: in and out with COVID, and that he was going 139 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:29,680 Speaker 1: to be hit with an affair kind of like you know, 140 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:32,560 Speaker 1: the cactivation for capone. They don't want to come after 141 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 1: him for the murder they went to do the fair thing. 142 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 1: When they held him back, they said, you can't leave, 143 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:39,839 Speaker 1: You can't leave the base. How did this happen, By 144 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 1: the way, all these holes in this case. He said 145 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:44,800 Speaker 1: he's going to the other room. They said, you're not 146 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 1: allowed to leave this room, and somehow he walked out, 147 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 1: went and escaped the base. They went he ran on foot. 148 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 1: I understand two hours later they were able to find him. 149 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 1: And how he got a gun again between that time, 150 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 1: how he even had a gun, you know, they say 151 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:04,679 Speaker 1: it was his own personal gun. But that's when they 152 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 1: came up to him and he shot himself before they 153 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 1: could arrest him. So I got more information if you 154 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 1: want to ask me questions. I mean, I'm sure everybody's 155 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:18,080 Speaker 1: in shock right now because I'm film shocked. It's so 156 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 1: much information I could hardly take it in. No, no, 157 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 1: don't be because this is the truth and he could 158 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:30,920 Speaker 1: have been brought to justice had the army acted. And 159 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:35,000 Speaker 1: I find it very very difficult to believe that this guy, 160 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:37,839 Speaker 1: who I understand is one of the same guys that 161 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 1: sex harassed her, was never brought to justice. Now, cheating 162 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:47,000 Speaker 1: with a married woman married to a former officer, a 163 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:53,080 Speaker 1: former military person, and they have a polygrapher saying he's lying. 164 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 1: They have witnesses stating they saw him struggling with the 165 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:01,959 Speaker 1: pelican case to put it in a car. I wouldn't 166 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 1: be surprised if he's not the one that called her 167 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 1: into work that day. They say that wasn't And this 168 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:08,920 Speaker 1: is where I believe that there's some cover up here, 169 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:13,800 Speaker 1: because they say it wasn't him. And they said that 170 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:17,200 Speaker 1: the persons that saw the three NCOs that saw her 171 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:20,199 Speaker 1: around one o'clock PM then changed her story to eleven 172 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:22,800 Speaker 1: thirty am. That's why they were having confusion as to 173 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:26,600 Speaker 1: her whereabouts in the parking lot. It seemed like there 174 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:29,120 Speaker 1: were so many people covering up the roommate. By the way, 175 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:32,880 Speaker 1: I understand his roommate maybe hit with some charges for 176 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:34,880 Speaker 1: lying because they said he was there that night. But 177 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:37,320 Speaker 1: this is what's the most terrible thing. That girl sicily 178 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 1: she dismembered a US soldier's body. She is this is 179 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:44,560 Speaker 1: what isis does to our soldiers. They dismember our bodies. 180 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 1: She did this. She shouldn't be hit with terrorists. I 181 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 1: cannot believe this woman. She hacked apart a p FC, 182 00:11:56,760 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 1: a female. She stood over a bonfire, cackling like a witch. 183 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:07,679 Speaker 1: And in that bonfire is the remains of Vanessa gim 184 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:13,120 Speaker 1: Tim Miller joining me from Texas Equisearch, who led the 185 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 1: search to find Vanessa at the very beginning when she 186 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:20,480 Speaker 1: went missing. Tim, what we are now learning from the 187 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:24,199 Speaker 1: Army CID now they want to have a meeting with 188 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:28,319 Speaker 1: the family's lawyer, not during all the families suffering. Now 189 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:32,120 Speaker 1: they suddenly call a high level meeting. Okay, you know what, 190 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:36,199 Speaker 1: I'm not impressed, and my dad was in the military. 191 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:39,760 Speaker 1: I am not impressed one bit. But what we're hearing 192 00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 1: from Army CID through the family lawyer, Natalie Kawan, fits 193 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 1: with every single thing you told us. Tim Miller describe, Well, 194 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:55,679 Speaker 1: you know what, Nancy, I normally don't put out information 195 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:58,120 Speaker 1: that I know on an investigation like this, but I 196 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:00,320 Speaker 1: felt thought there was a cover up. I know, I'm 197 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 1: the most hated person in what the military right now 198 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:06,840 Speaker 1: because I said all this stuff. That's a reason I 199 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:11,080 Speaker 1: said all this stuff was hopefully somebody would start talking 200 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:15,840 Speaker 1: and get out there. And I knew, Nancy, they minute 201 00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 1: that we found that burn pile and that Pelican case, 202 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:21,720 Speaker 1: that it had something to do with it, and I 203 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 1: can tell you this or effect. This CID investigator that 204 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 1: was out there with us when we found that didn't 205 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:33,640 Speaker 1: think it had any revalence to the case. We had 206 00:13:33,679 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 1: to push and push and push him, and he said, well, 207 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:39,400 Speaker 1: the case didn't looked like that. And one of our 208 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:43,440 Speaker 1: people actually googled the Pelican case and showed him the 209 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 1: picture before he was willing to even go to the 210 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:48,679 Speaker 1: site to look at it. I just don't understand why. 211 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 1: It's like pulling a tooth to Olivia Leveda k xx VTV, 212 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:58,160 Speaker 1: it's like holding the Army down, sitting on their chest 213 00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:04,239 Speaker 1: and pulling their teeth pliers to get them to do anything. Why, Olivia, 214 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:07,440 Speaker 1: you know what? Nancy? I wish I could answer that question, 215 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:12,640 Speaker 1: but I can tell you this. I can count on hands, fingers, toes, etc. 216 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:18,559 Speaker 1: The amount of times that we have reached out asking questions, 217 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 1: receiving press releases, and it's not till today that the 218 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:31,440 Speaker 1: Army has even scheduled a formal press conference. It's frustrating 219 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:48,040 Speaker 1: crime stories with Nancy Grace. I have a hard time 220 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:52,680 Speaker 1: believing back to you to you know what. Let me 221 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 1: go to dtor Bethany Marshall on this like Kallen's joining 222 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:56,880 Speaker 1: side of Beverly Hills. I found it really hard to 223 00:14:56,880 --> 00:15:02,960 Speaker 1: believe that this coat. Why was Vanessa called in that day? 224 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 1: I have a theory, and I find it hard to 225 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 1: believe that nobody else knew she was there except her shower. 226 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:13,280 Speaker 1: I have a theory. I think Aaron Robinson was a 227 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 1: bad actor for a long long time. I think the 228 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 1: military knew that he was sexually harassing women. I do 229 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:23,120 Speaker 1: not think that Vanessa was the only victim. I think 230 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:26,760 Speaker 1: there are people very high up. There's a powerful group 231 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:33,000 Speaker 1: psychology where they started protecting their own months ago. So 232 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:37,960 Speaker 1: in order to how the family be transparent bring Aaron 233 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:41,240 Speaker 1: to justice, they would have to point a finger back 234 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:45,760 Speaker 1: at themselves and acknowledge that there was mounting evidence that 235 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 1: he was harassing women on the base the fact that 236 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 1: he was having an affair with Cecily Aguilera, a woman 237 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:58,000 Speaker 1: who hacked up Vanessa's body. That doesn't just happen in 238 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:00,640 Speaker 1: an hour, a day, or three weeks or three months. 239 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:06,600 Speaker 1: These kinds of malevolent activities they build up over months 240 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 1: and years. So I think that the military is the 241 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 1: reason you said it was like getting the truth is 242 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 1: like sitting on their chest and kind of beating it 243 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 1: out of them is because in them telling the family 244 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:24,640 Speaker 1: and being transparent, they have to acknowledge that they are 245 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:30,200 Speaker 1: complicit in Vanessa's death. They looked the other way. We 246 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:34,560 Speaker 1: have to think about group psychology when the higher ups 247 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:40,000 Speaker 1: know that one of their own is sexually harassing, is 248 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:44,480 Speaker 1: having affairs, is mistreating women on the base, and they 249 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 1: do nothing, and all of a sudden he bludgends her 250 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:50,600 Speaker 1: with a hammer. You know, Natalie Kuama is right. You 251 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 1: cannot clean up crime scene in forty three minutes. Those men, 252 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:58,920 Speaker 1: those higher ups walked into the armory. They saw blood 253 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:01,520 Speaker 1: all over the place and it was like, rut row, 254 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 1: what are we going to do now? They've been getting 255 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 1: their facts in order for a long long time. Nancy, 256 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:10,720 Speaker 1: we are just pulling on a small piece of thread. Today. 257 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:13,679 Speaker 1: You are going to keep pulling and pulling and pulling 258 00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:15,879 Speaker 1: on this show. And Natalie, You're going to keep pulling 259 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 1: and so much more is going to come out. Just 260 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:21,960 Speaker 1: got Morgan, Professor forensics, Jacksonall State University, and author. Take 261 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:25,480 Speaker 1: a listen to what I'm asking Natalie, okay, because I 262 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:30,720 Speaker 1: want you to analyze it. Natalie Kawan. I'm this is 263 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:34,000 Speaker 1: why I keep asking this, Why was she called in? 264 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:37,400 Speaker 1: Because in my mind, Natalie, of course you're practicing lawyer, 265 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:41,720 Speaker 1: Natalie Kawan, the lawyer for the Vanessagian family. There are 266 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:45,480 Speaker 1: no coincidences in criminal law typically, so I find it 267 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:49,240 Speaker 1: really odd and quite the coincidence that she gets called 268 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:53,000 Speaker 1: in by a superior and then somehow she ends up 269 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 1: alone in the armory with her killer, Aaron Robinson. He 270 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:01,240 Speaker 1: bludgeons her dead. The place is covered, it's a blood bass. 271 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:06,080 Speaker 1: She's covered, everything's covered in blood. And he somehow manages 272 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:09,760 Speaker 1: to secrete her body into a pelican case in one 273 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:15,879 Speaker 1: of those big black plastic rough and tough plastic containers 274 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:19,720 Speaker 1: and leaves it there for all these hours, and nobody 275 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:27,080 Speaker 1: sees anything. Nobody knows. This is a small munition's repair armory. Okay, 276 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:31,199 Speaker 1: it's a workroom. She's in. It's big, she's in there. 277 00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:35,600 Speaker 1: Nobody sees a thing, Nobody sees. All the blood hours pass, 278 00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:38,719 Speaker 1: he goes home, he gets cleaned up, he goes and 279 00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:42,360 Speaker 1: buys all this quick dry cement and tarps or everything 280 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 1: he needed. He comes back what what what? Nobody saw anything? Who? 281 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:52,800 Speaker 1: And the hay called her in and why Natalie, Yeah, 282 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:57,520 Speaker 1: you know who called her in? They say that it 283 00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:00,760 Speaker 1: was I gotta look at my notes again, But there 284 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:05,760 Speaker 1: was someone else. They said that, And my argument is 285 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:08,719 Speaker 1: this was premeditated. There's no way, because I said, how 286 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:11,760 Speaker 1: did he get towns? Are they inside? I know I've 287 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 1: been in the armory room. There's no towels in there, 288 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:17,359 Speaker 1: there's no cleaning solutions in there. How did he? Oh, 289 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:21,280 Speaker 1: he went down across the building. They've made it up obviously, 290 00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:23,520 Speaker 1: But I said, they said, you're right, there's no towels. 291 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:25,920 Speaker 1: And I said, so he must have had to go 292 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:28,400 Speaker 1: out and got them or brought them in with him, 293 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:29,960 Speaker 1: which is premeditated. But there's no way he could have 294 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:32,800 Speaker 1: done that for three minutes. Nancy, When I tell you 295 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:36,359 Speaker 1: you're you're an attorney, there's so many holes. How did 296 00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:41,160 Speaker 1: you not? They've never ever subpoened her text messages. I said, 297 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 1: I thought you said you set there's incompetency, the conformatory bias, 298 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:53,359 Speaker 1: the ways that say it did this investigation, they should 299 00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:57,080 Speaker 1: all be terminated. They are all part of this problem. Well, 300 00:19:57,000 --> 00:20:00,840 Speaker 1: I think it's more than that, Natalie Kawam, because the 301 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 1: reason I keep asking who called her in because did 302 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:06,240 Speaker 1: they call her in because Aaron Robinson wanted them to 303 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:08,920 Speaker 1: or suggested to? Did she really have anything she had 304 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:12,479 Speaker 1: to do that day? And then suddenly when she goes missing, 305 00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:17,119 Speaker 1: Robinson's superior didn't say, hey, why did you want her 306 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:20,800 Speaker 1: called in? I mean, where was the oversight? Where was 307 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:24,400 Speaker 1: the supervision? To Joe Scott Morgan, what I'm getting at 308 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 1: is this is bigger than just Aaron Robinson and his 309 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:34,120 Speaker 1: married girlfriend, Cecily Aguilera. It's bigger than that. And I 310 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:37,720 Speaker 1: swear to Holy God in Heaven, I'm not letting this loose. 311 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:40,919 Speaker 1: I am not letting it not the Army's worried about me, 312 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:43,120 Speaker 1: but I can tell you this much, I am not 313 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:46,320 Speaker 1: letting this loose. How could all this happen? You were 314 00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:49,720 Speaker 1: in the military, Joseph Scott Morgan. What nobody goes in 315 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:53,159 Speaker 1: the armory and the blood's lying there, nobody sees anything, 316 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:56,120 Speaker 1: nobody smells anything, nobody hears anything, that cameras don't work. 317 00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:59,320 Speaker 1: How did all of that happen? Joe Scott, Well, it's 318 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:02,919 Speaker 1: lack of ability. Nancy. If this guy is what's referred 319 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 1: to as like her ncoic, which is her non commissioned 320 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 1: officer in charge, which I suspect is the case. They 321 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:15,520 Speaker 1: worked in kind of a sequestered area anyway, because there's 322 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:19,679 Speaker 1: very few people that have direct access to arms rooms 323 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:21,879 Speaker 1: most of the time. Now I understand this is a 324 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:25,480 Speaker 1: repair area, but you've also got weapons in there that 325 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:29,919 Speaker 1: they all have access to, so that would have facilitated 326 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:33,760 Speaker 1: him having time with her. I think what's key is 327 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:38,040 Speaker 1: what you were saying, who drew her in? Was it him? 328 00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:42,840 Speaker 1: Was he actually her immediate supervisor? You know, because this 329 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:45,680 Speaker 1: is an ongoing thing with weapons. You know, they're taking 330 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:48,159 Speaker 1: them out in the field, they're getting dirty, they're getting broken. 331 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:51,600 Speaker 1: You have to bring them back into this location in 332 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:55,000 Speaker 1: order to facilitate the repair of them. And I've heard 333 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 1: people say she came in to do her work, and 334 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:00,680 Speaker 1: she would you have to you know, kind of like that, 335 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:03,040 Speaker 1: you know the old scene from the Lucy Show where 336 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:05,520 Speaker 1: they're trying to put the chocolates, you know, in their 337 00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:10,640 Speaker 1: dress and they're eating them. With these kinds of units 338 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:14,159 Speaker 1: in the army, it's always stacking up. You have to 339 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:16,400 Speaker 1: have a schedule that you have to stay too. So 340 00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:20,120 Speaker 1: did they do that as a premise to get her 341 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:23,800 Speaker 1: there to come in. Remember she didn't show up. She 342 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 1: showed up in like workout clothes. And I understand. I've 343 00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:30,280 Speaker 1: heard some people say that that was acceptable. It never 344 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:32,199 Speaker 1: was when I was in. You had to show up 345 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:35,760 Speaker 1: in the uniform of the day, and so I found 346 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:38,280 Speaker 1: that a little suspicious as well. You know, she's like 347 00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:42,960 Speaker 1: in jogging pants, she's got a T shirt on, joggers on. 348 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:47,560 Speaker 1: So that's kind of odd to me. What's key, though, 349 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:53,480 Speaker 1: here is the copious and I mean volumes of blood 350 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:57,359 Speaker 1: that would have issued forth from this. As Natalie mentioned 351 00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:00,800 Speaker 1: a moment ago, a hammer was you in order to 352 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:04,480 Speaker 1: facilitate her death. In other words, she was beaten to 353 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:09,920 Speaker 1: death with this thing, and it creates such a volume 354 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:14,040 Speaker 1: of blood, not just from blood dripping from her head, 355 00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:17,400 Speaker 1: but we begin to think about things like cast off patterns, 356 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:20,680 Speaker 1: where Nancy, if people at home will just think about 357 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:23,359 Speaker 1: taking a paint brush and dipping it into a paint 358 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:27,040 Speaker 1: bucket and slinging it over their shoulder. If that happens, 359 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:30,640 Speaker 1: you're gonna get blood all over, you know, all over 360 00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:33,960 Speaker 1: the ceiling. You'll get it on the walls, the adjacent walls, 361 00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:36,919 Speaker 1: It'll be dripping off on the floor or the individual 362 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:40,679 Speaker 1: that has done this. I've worked many hammer attacks, Nancy, 363 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:44,760 Speaker 1: and I can tell you that the person that engages 364 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:47,600 Speaker 1: in this is also going to be covered with blood, 365 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:51,480 Speaker 1: So how does he go about disguising that as well. 366 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:56,200 Speaker 1: I'm real curious about the timeline here. No, in answer 367 00:23:56,240 --> 00:24:00,480 Speaker 1: to Natalie's question, there is no way, no way under 368 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:03,240 Speaker 1: heaven that this guy could have cleaned up that room 369 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:07,400 Speaker 1: in forty three minutes so that no one would would 370 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:10,960 Speaker 1: have noticed. You'd have to have a number of cleaning supplies. 371 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:14,680 Speaker 1: And even after say you do the initial cleaning, you've 372 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:17,080 Speaker 1: still got to deal with the body. That means a 373 00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:19,520 Speaker 1: body has to be wrapped up because she's got this 374 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:23,600 Speaker 1: gaping injury to her skull, so the head will have 375 00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:25,800 Speaker 1: to be wrapped. You'll have to get the body into 376 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:28,960 Speaker 1: a bag or something. Right, That is a major problem. 377 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:30,719 Speaker 1: So there are a lot of holes in this end. 378 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,200 Speaker 1: I got another issue. I don't believe it went down 379 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:37,399 Speaker 1: anything like Natalie Kawam was told by Army CID. I 380 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:42,439 Speaker 1: do not believe that Vanessa Game comes in, grabs the 381 00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:45,960 Speaker 1: killer's phone and goes, oh, here's a picture of Cecily Agilea. 382 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:48,399 Speaker 1: You're seeing a married woman I'm going to report you 383 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:53,880 Speaker 1: in oh. I think that she that he told her 384 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:58,520 Speaker 1: she could not report him for sex harassment, and that 385 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:02,399 Speaker 1: she's that nobody would believe her, and that she said, well, 386 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:04,920 Speaker 1: I bet they'll believe about your affair with Cecily Aguilera, 387 00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 1: and that all hell broke loose. That's what happened. She 388 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:11,560 Speaker 1: didn't grab his phone and instigate this whole thing. She 389 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 1: was trying to get away from him. You know, Tim Miller, 390 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:18,320 Speaker 1: Texas Equisearch, what do you make based on what you 391 00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:24,040 Speaker 1: saw when Vanessa's body found in that shallow grave. They 392 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:28,440 Speaker 1: poured quick cement onto her skin to hide her. You 393 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:32,639 Speaker 1: stated that they were searching in other areas, and now 394 00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:37,080 Speaker 1: we know why because they hacked her up with a 395 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:42,400 Speaker 1: machette and buried parts of her body in different places. What, 396 00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:46,040 Speaker 1: if anything, did you see, Tim Miller, Texas Equisearch. They 397 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:49,760 Speaker 1: would support that theory. Well, again, what we've seen when 398 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:54,240 Speaker 1: we first found the burn pile and the partial lead 399 00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:58,520 Speaker 1: off the Pelican case, we knew and nancyll want to 400 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:03,960 Speaker 1: say this, these are on civilized animals. Nancy, we don't 401 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:07,240 Speaker 1: even go to this extent when we are fighting our 402 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 1: enemies in the war. It's just unthinkable. I mean, I 403 00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:19,760 Speaker 1: don't have words. We knew. We knew immediately something terrible, 404 00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:24,280 Speaker 1: terrible happened at that burn site, and again or the 405 00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:27,560 Speaker 1: investigator not to be interested in the beginning. When we 406 00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:31,080 Speaker 1: found it, we just all shook our head and said, 407 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:32,880 Speaker 1: what the hell's the matter with him? You know, the 408 00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:35,280 Speaker 1: fact that they would go to all this trouble. I 409 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:38,600 Speaker 1: could just see these two in the night. It's like 410 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 1: double double boiled trouble, standing over a fire pit trying 411 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:51,640 Speaker 1: to burn Vanessa's body, dismembered, hacked up. The image of 412 00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:59,560 Speaker 1: that Natalie Kawam is overwhelming. This girl did nothing wrong, Natalie. 413 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,359 Speaker 1: And you know, I got to say one of the 414 00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:06,440 Speaker 1: other things that really broke my heart. When they were 415 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,000 Speaker 1: trying to figure out what it was her body or not, 416 00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:12,320 Speaker 1: they couldn't. I ask some mind to use your predential 417 00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:16,880 Speaker 1: records her mouth, and they said that he bludgeoned her 418 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:20,439 Speaker 1: head so badly did and couldn't even get a face 419 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:25,240 Speaker 1: in one part. Was this all broken and shatters? I mean, 420 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:27,840 Speaker 1: I just think of what that girl suffered just because 421 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:31,280 Speaker 1: she was sexually harassed and was afraid. And this is 422 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:34,720 Speaker 1: another thing, man, So think of it. I said to them, 423 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:37,040 Speaker 1: how was there? I know you guys account for your 424 00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:40,760 Speaker 1: hammers and everything. I done my research. Who counted for 425 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:43,159 Speaker 1: that hammer that was missing? And they said, he admitted 426 00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:46,480 Speaker 1: that he lost the hammer. He took the hammer out 427 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:50,160 Speaker 1: and lost it, and they let him go. I said, 428 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:53,520 Speaker 1: wait a second, when somebody loses something or something's missing, 429 00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:56,280 Speaker 1: they're accountable. Did they punish him? Did they reprimand him 430 00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:59,399 Speaker 1: because that's protocol? And they said no. And I said, so, 431 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:04,280 Speaker 1: Matt of hammer's missing and the soldier's missing, and there's 432 00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:06,520 Speaker 1: a little one common denominator that had access to both 433 00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:08,360 Speaker 1: and that's the one person. And you guys still did 434 00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:10,399 Speaker 1: not think why is the hammer and a girl missing 435 00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:13,480 Speaker 1: at the same time? And then ready for this, they 436 00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:15,159 Speaker 1: did the checks. I said, how can you now have 437 00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:17,480 Speaker 1: not noticed that she was gone that three pm four 438 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:19,840 Speaker 1: pm check? They said that the person who did the 439 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:22,679 Speaker 1: check cleared. I said, wait a second, I feel like 440 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:24,640 Speaker 1: there's a cover up. There's a bunch of guys here 441 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:26,920 Speaker 1: as a boys network, a bunch of guys helping each other, 442 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:29,360 Speaker 1: covering up because you don't go this long with all 443 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:31,920 Speaker 1: this obvious evidence. And they said that the guy who 444 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:34,840 Speaker 1: did the check said, oh, yeah, I didn't. I didn't 445 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:37,439 Speaker 1: check her. I said she was there, but I didn't. 446 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:40,640 Speaker 1: And I said, well, this obviously makes me suspect about him. 447 00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:43,240 Speaker 1: And they said, oh no, no, no. He admitted that 448 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:45,560 Speaker 1: he always is sloppy. He doesn't do checks right. He 449 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:47,720 Speaker 1: would be surprised at someone in Vegas and he wouldn't 450 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:49,520 Speaker 1: know that. And I said, and you kept that as 451 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:52,480 Speaker 1: an answer. Do you know why? I guys say it 452 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:58,720 Speaker 1: was a complete disregard for the truth is this was mishandled. 453 00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:01,560 Speaker 1: The other thing is this Natalie Kawam, which might be 454 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:04,480 Speaker 1: a wonderful thing to add into I hope a lawsuit 455 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:08,320 Speaker 1: that you're going to file. But Natalie Kawam, attorney for 456 00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:13,720 Speaker 1: Vanessa Gean's family. She's missing, the hammer's missing. They know 457 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:18,240 Speaker 1: she was called in on her day off. They don't 458 00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:22,680 Speaker 1: search the area in the armory for blood evidence or 459 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:26,240 Speaker 1: any other evidence. I mean at four thirty when she didn't, 460 00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:30,120 Speaker 1: when they didn't cut mustard, she wasn't there. They didn't 461 00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:33,600 Speaker 1: look for her. I mean, this is contrary to everything 462 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:36,320 Speaker 1: we know to be true about the military, or think 463 00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:40,640 Speaker 1: we know. Let me understand something that you said, Natalie Kawam. 464 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:45,200 Speaker 1: Her head was bludgeoned so badly. I know her skull 465 00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:49,200 Speaker 1: was shattered. What did you say about the dentist trying 466 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:52,000 Speaker 1: to identify her by teeth X ray? That's correct. They 467 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:55,560 Speaker 1: couldn't get her or dental cavity. Everything was bludgeons in 468 00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:58,000 Speaker 1: her face, in her skull that they couldn't even use 469 00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:00,760 Speaker 1: her face for her skull for any kind of bone 470 00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:06,000 Speaker 1: or recognition. They said they found her hair though, but 471 00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:09,160 Speaker 1: her face was so bludgeoned that her they couldnt get 472 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:12,760 Speaker 1: the dental records or do that kind of confirmation of 473 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:16,280 Speaker 1: on top two of her face. It's just disgusting. Its 474 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:22,600 Speaker 1: hainous that the heinous crime is her family jesting all 475 00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:25,240 Speaker 1: of this information. Nancy. I hate to say this that 476 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:27,240 Speaker 1: they haven't told the mother. They won't tell her mom. 477 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:30,080 Speaker 1: Her mom. This has been bedridden for not a couple 478 00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:32,280 Speaker 1: of days. When I arrived, I didn't tell you the 479 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:35,280 Speaker 1: guy assist. But when I arrived DC. The family arrived 480 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:38,200 Speaker 1: to DC two days ago. That was when they found 481 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:41,640 Speaker 1: her body. They didn't tell the mother. But ironically, when 482 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:45,040 Speaker 1: they found her, I went to their hotels to talk 483 00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:48,680 Speaker 1: to them and tell them, and the mother was outside 484 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:50,840 Speaker 1: with paramedics and an ambulance and everything was out front 485 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,160 Speaker 1: of the Jacob Maria and I thought, oh God, he 486 00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:55,160 Speaker 1: don't let this see the family, And of course it was. 487 00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:58,400 Speaker 1: The mother was showing signs of a heart attack and everything. 488 00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:00,840 Speaker 1: She said, something's wrong, something wrong, and they didn't tell her. 489 00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:02,800 Speaker 1: It still won't tell her that they found her body. 490 00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:05,840 Speaker 1: She knew, she said, something doesn't feel right. She has 491 00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:07,480 Speaker 1: been in bed for the last couple of days while 492 00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:10,880 Speaker 1: we have been going through this. I can't imagine what's 493 00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:13,040 Speaker 1: going to happen when she finds out they don't want 494 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:17,280 Speaker 1: to tell her, you know, Doctor Bethany Marshall. To this day, 495 00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:21,640 Speaker 1: I still have night terrors and nightmares about my fiance's murder. 496 00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:25,960 Speaker 1: That was a long time ago. I just I can't 497 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:30,760 Speaker 1: even imagine what this family is going through. And to 498 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:34,200 Speaker 1: also know that the army failed her in such a 499 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:38,480 Speaker 1: horrible way, Nancy, and the fact that it's so there's 500 00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:41,800 Speaker 1: so many unknowns. As I've said so many times before, 501 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:45,360 Speaker 1: in the face of the unknown, we read into it 502 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:51,800 Speaker 1: are worse possible fears and anxieties and theories. But in 503 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:56,240 Speaker 1: this case, the facts are so much worse than any 504 00:31:56,320 --> 00:32:00,320 Speaker 1: negative fantasy that a mother could have. I think at 505 00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:05,160 Speaker 1: Aaron Robinson in Sicily Aguilera, I think they had so 506 00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:12,440 Speaker 1: much to hide, Aaron, a sex predator, Sicily having an affair, 507 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:19,840 Speaker 1: and they vilified Vanessa because of their own bad acts. 508 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:25,520 Speaker 1: She became the scapegoat. She became the person who was 509 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:29,280 Speaker 1: blamed for everything, all their multiple lives. Can you imagine 510 00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:33,560 Speaker 1: Aaron in Sicily lying to spouses and partners and superiors 511 00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:39,400 Speaker 1: and colleagues and vilifying Vanessa again and again until they 512 00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:42,840 Speaker 1: built up this urban myth that Vanessa was a bad person, 513 00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:45,240 Speaker 1: and then she got blood into death, and then the 514 00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:48,400 Speaker 1: superiors saw the blood and they looked the other way. 515 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:52,800 Speaker 1: And who was Vanessa? That She's a beautiful, beautiful twenty 516 00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:55,760 Speaker 1: year old with her whole life ahead of her. In 517 00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:58,880 Speaker 1: family therapy, we have a term called the identified patient. 518 00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:02,160 Speaker 1: It's when you have a really crazy family, but they 519 00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:04,440 Speaker 1: bring one person to therapy and they say that that 520 00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:08,400 Speaker 1: person's crazy, when in fact, the entire family's crazy. On 521 00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:13,440 Speaker 1: the fourth Hood Compound, Vanessa became the identified patient, the 522 00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:16,880 Speaker 1: one that everyone pointed the finger at, not just Aaron 523 00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:21,720 Speaker 1: in Sicily, but the entire group of men there. And 524 00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:25,600 Speaker 1: she was an innocent young woman. It's so tragic. I 525 00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:29,400 Speaker 1: want to go back to our longtime friend and colleague, 526 00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:35,440 Speaker 1: Tim Miller, crime victim. They turned his suffering into action 527 00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:41,480 Speaker 1: with Texas Equisearch. Tim Miller. I look at the picture 528 00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:46,040 Speaker 1: of Vanessa Gay in life, and she's young, she's beautiful, 529 00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:49,560 Speaker 1: she loves her country. All she wants to do is 530 00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:52,200 Speaker 1: be in the army. That's it, and go home on 531 00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:54,600 Speaker 1: weekends to see her family and her boyfriend. That's all 532 00:33:54,600 --> 00:34:01,280 Speaker 1: she wants. Tell me the scene that you discovered when 533 00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:06,400 Speaker 1: you and others found Vanessa's body, what did you see? Well, 534 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:09,840 Speaker 1: it was it was shocking, to say the least, and 535 00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:15,879 Speaker 1: how close it was to the burn pile. And I 536 00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:19,319 Speaker 1: just stood and I stared, and I stared and I 537 00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:23,240 Speaker 1: stared and just tried to digest so the whole scene, 538 00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:28,560 Speaker 1: and it's not digested yet. I've seen a lot of things, 539 00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:31,399 Speaker 1: and then what we do, Just when you think you've 540 00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:34,719 Speaker 1: seen everything, something new pops up. And this was something new. 541 00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:40,680 Speaker 1: We've lost sleep, we've shed tears, we try to get 542 00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:45,200 Speaker 1: some answers. There's no answer that's there's not an answer 543 00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:47,399 Speaker 1: out there that's going to take any of the pain 544 00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:52,520 Speaker 1: away from family from us what we've seen and and 545 00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:55,120 Speaker 1: you know, a lot of times I got a lot 546 00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:57,760 Speaker 1: of things. It's talked about it, and this time I don't. 547 00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:02,000 Speaker 1: It's still trying to digest that scene and what happened 548 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:06,000 Speaker 1: and that fire, and that fire was so high, Nancy, 549 00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:10,480 Speaker 1: it was burning tree limbs fifteen feet above the damn fire. 550 00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:14,160 Speaker 1: They made that fire hot. There was a tire at 551 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:16,040 Speaker 1: that fire too, and we know when you put a 552 00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:19,360 Speaker 1: tire and a fire, it burns even hotter. And you 553 00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:24,160 Speaker 1: know what, Nancy, there is still plastic out there that 554 00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:26,680 Speaker 1: they did not take in for evidence. And I'm not 555 00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:29,000 Speaker 1: saying a little bit of plastic. And it was trying 556 00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:31,480 Speaker 1: to figure out why in the hell didn't they take 557 00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:35,640 Speaker 1: everything that was here. All they took was that part 558 00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:39,560 Speaker 1: of that lid. There was still stuff out there. Yeah, 559 00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:44,960 Speaker 1: this investigation was botched terribly, terribly. You know what, I 560 00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:47,920 Speaker 1: just did something I try not to ever do. And 561 00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:51,520 Speaker 1: it's tough in this line of business. But for anyone 562 00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:57,879 Speaker 1: that doesn't care about Vanessa, imagine that picture of her 563 00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:03,160 Speaker 1: in her private first class unit form so proud, and 564 00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:11,239 Speaker 1: then put your daughter's face on top of that. That 565 00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:16,440 Speaker 1: is what her family is going through the thought someone 566 00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:23,879 Speaker 1: could do this to my girl like they did to Vanessa. 567 00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:28,440 Speaker 1: Is there no justice now? The Army wants to have 568 00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:32,480 Speaker 1: a meeting with the family lawyer, and they're still delivering 569 00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:36,919 Speaker 1: a line of BS. I love the military, but there's 570 00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:39,280 Speaker 1: one thing I love more than the military, and that 571 00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:46,080 Speaker 1: is the truth. We wait as justice. Son of false 572 00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:56,960 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off goodbye friend. During the 573 00:36:57,000 --> 00:36:59,919 Speaker 1: interview with Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Natalie Kam said 574 00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:03,280 Speaker 1: Cecily Aguilar was let out on bond today. Crime Online 575 00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:05,440 Speaker 1: has reached out to the Bell County Jail and confirmed 576 00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:08,360 Speaker 1: Aguilar is still in custody and being processed