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Speaker 1: On this week's episode of Cultivating her Space.

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Speaker 2: Avoidance often called avoidance, coping, avoidance, coping, avoidant behaviors, escape coping.

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Speaker 2: Any of those terms all kind of mean the same thing.

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Speaker 2: Right that you are engaging in a maladaptive form of

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Speaker 2: coping that involves you changing your behavior to avoid thinking about, feeling,

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Speaker 2: or doing difficulties.

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Speaker 1: Today's episode is sure to provide you with motivation, inspiration,

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Speaker 1: or a fresh perspective. If you have any AHA moments

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Speaker 1: or appreciate anything from this episode, please leave us a

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Speaker 1: review to let us know we're on the right track. Also,

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Speaker 1: we release episodes every Friday, so be sure to subscribe

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Speaker 1: on iTunes and visit cultivatingheirspace dot com to access our

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Speaker 1: exclusion of aftershow and other bonus content from the Patreon tab.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to Cultivating her Space, a podcast dedicated to uplifting

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Speaker 3: women like you. We're your hosts doctor Dominique Brussard, a

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Speaker 3: college professor and psychologist.

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Speaker 1: And Terry Lomax, a techie and motivational speaker.

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Speaker 4: In a world where black women are often misrepresented and misunderstood,

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Speaker 4: please join us as we initiate authentic conversations on everything

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Speaker 4: from five roids to fake friends and create a safe

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Speaker 4: space where.

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Speaker 5: Black women can just be.

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Speaker 1: Hey, lady, it's Terry here from the Cultivating her Space podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm hosting a free podcasting masterclass where I'm going to

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Speaker 1: teach you how to create your impactful podcast and how

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Speaker 1: you can generate multiple streams of income. You can visit

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Speaker 1: podcast with Terry dot com to register for free. I

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Speaker 1: hope to see you there.

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Speaker 2: Our quote of the day avoidance has never been a

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Speaker 2: great tactic in solving any problem. For most situations in life,

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Speaker 2: not addressing what's going on only makes matters worse. This

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Speaker 2: quote comes to us from the professional troublemaker herself, Lovey

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Speaker 2: a Jaii Jones not tea. I follow Lovey and she

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Speaker 2: always has like amazing things to say, and I usually

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Speaker 2: agree with the truth telling that she puts out there

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Speaker 2: that it might be hard for folks to hear. When

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Speaker 2: I hear this quote, I'm like, yeah, yeah, you are

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Speaker 2: exactly right. Not addressing what's going on only makes matters worse.

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Speaker 2: A tea, when you hear this quote, what comes up

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Speaker 2: for you?

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Speaker 5: Well, that's a good question. I'm just rereading it to

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Speaker 5: make sure I can answer. Honestly. I think that avoidance

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Speaker 5: can have its place. I don't think it's productive in

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Speaker 5: the long run, and I don't think that it's an

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Speaker 5: ideal way to cope, but I do believe that there

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Speaker 5: are times and there are instances in life where avoidance

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Speaker 5: can sometimes protect us. And I know we'll probably talk

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Speaker 5: about that in a bit. Avoidance can protect us as

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Speaker 5: long as you don't stay in that avoidance space right ideally,

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Speaker 5: But then again, I can see how I'm torn because

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Speaker 5: I'm thinking about people. You know, I've experienced trauma, but

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Speaker 5: I'm thinking about people who've experienced trauma. That's what far

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Speaker 5: you know more I'm going to say impactful right in

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Speaker 5: traumatizing than I have. And in those situations, I don't know,

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Speaker 5: maybe perpetual avoidance is what will serve them best. So

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Speaker 5: I really I think it's situational. That's what I'll That's

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Speaker 5: what I'll I'll land on it.

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Speaker 2: Situational, I agree, And that's why I think. That's why

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Speaker 2: I appreciate the caveat that love he puts in there

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Speaker 2: around for most situations in life, right that there are

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Speaker 2: going to be those exceptions that where things really are

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Speaker 2: that intense that avoiding that there are certain behaviors that

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Speaker 2: need to be or spaces, places, and people that need

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Speaker 2: to be avoided to prevent your trauma, right, or trauma

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Speaker 2: or tragedy from occurring. And so that makes sense to me.

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Speaker 2: There are moments where avoiding can be helpful. But I

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Speaker 2: think the thing to pay attention to, though, is that

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Speaker 2: even with trauma that you may be avoiding, there is

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Speaker 2: going to come a point where the overall situation itself

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Speaker 2: will need to be addressed or things will continue to

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Speaker 2: get worse. Right, So I think the key here is

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Speaker 2: recognizing one like, let's just pause and let's define what

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Speaker 2: avoidance is. What does that really mean? So what we

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Speaker 2: know from many therapists and academic researchers is that avoidance

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Speaker 2: often called avoidance, coping, avoidance, coping, avoidant behaviors, escape coping,

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Speaker 2: any of those terms all kind of mean the same thing. Right,

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Speaker 2: That you are engaging in a maladaptive form of coping

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Speaker 2: that involves you changing your behavior to avoid thinking about

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Speaker 2: feeling or doing difficult things. So I'll say that again,

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Speaker 2: that avoidance is a form of maladaptive culping in which

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Speaker 2: you change your behavior to avoid thinking about feeling or

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Speaker 2: doing difficult things. Now that we've let that sink in,

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Speaker 2: let's come out. Let's talk about what that looks like,

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Speaker 2: because the reality is that, like I want to be clear, lady,

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Speaker 2: as you're listening, you know, rocking with us for a

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Speaker 2: long time, or maybe this is your first time listening

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Speaker 2: to us, we do not condone or believe in shaming.

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Speaker 2: And so this conversation that we're having is not to

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Speaker 2: shame or pass judgment on anyone about avoidance. It's to

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Speaker 2: bring light to a common currents. And when I say common,

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Speaker 2: I mean each and every one of us engages in koching.

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Speaker 2: Even the person who is functioning at their highest self

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Speaker 2: occasionally get engaging and engages in avoidance, and has probably

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Speaker 2: engaged in higher forms of avoidance when they were functioning

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Speaker 2: at a different level of their self. So it's something

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Speaker 2: we all do. So no shame here, but let's talk

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Speaker 2: about it, because this is a topic that doesn't come

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Speaker 2: up very often. We don't sit around at brunch and say, girl,

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Speaker 2: let me tell you about that that situation that I

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Speaker 2: avoided the.

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Speaker 5: Other day, or what I'm avoiding right now in my life.

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Speaker 2: Right exactly exactly.

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Speaker 5: Oh damn, this is good. I'm excited that brings up.

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Speaker 2: An example of what that looks like. Right, So you're

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Speaker 2: sitting around at brunch with your girlfriends and you're talking

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Speaker 2: about all the life things you're getting well, let me

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Speaker 2: be clear, not all the life things, because if you're avoiding,

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Speaker 2: you're probably there's something you're not discussing, right. But let's

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Speaker 2: say that you're at brunch and you know that when

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Speaker 2: you get home, there's a task at home that needs

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Speaker 2: to get done, right, whatever that task might be. Maybe

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Speaker 2: it's the laundry if you're me, or maybe it's meal

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Speaker 2: prepping for the week. Probably maybe maybe it's reading that

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Speaker 2: report for that presentation. I don't know that hasn't been

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Speaker 2: me in a while, But there's something that you're not

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Speaker 2: wanting to do when you get home. So you're at

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Speaker 2: brunch and brunches wrapping up, and what do you say?

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Speaker 2: I know what I say. I'll be like, girl, see

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Speaker 2: what you got going on? After this? I gotta run

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Speaker 2: a quick err in a TJ Max. You want to

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Speaker 2: come with me? And right right right, And next thing

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Speaker 2: you know, brunch has turned into a trip to TJ

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Speaker 2: Max and then a trip to the grocery store. But

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Speaker 2: not the things that you need for meal prep, but

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Speaker 2: for some random stuff. And then next thing you know,

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Speaker 2: it's five o'clock and you're like, oh girl, let's go

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Speaker 2: catch that happy hour. And that two hour brunch has

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Speaker 2: now turned into a twelve hour day. And you get

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Speaker 2: home and you're like, oh, well, trying to get ready

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Speaker 2: for the next day meeting. Go to bed, so that

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Speaker 2: thing that needed to get done doesn't get done. You

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Speaker 2: were engaging in avoidance.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, definitely, you've been there.

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Speaker 5: I have a little list Okay, So I am brandstone

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Speaker 5: a couple of things, and I had I feel like

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Speaker 5: there are levels to it. So I'm going to start

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Speaker 5: with the lightweight one to see if you have one

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Speaker 5: to potentially match, and kind of go back and forth.

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Speaker 5: But the first one I thought about girls we were

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Speaker 5: exploring this topic, is there have been times where I

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Speaker 5: might have some type of bill or invoice or like

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Speaker 5: an insurance claim that I need to process and I'll

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Speaker 5: have it. Y'all know, I use a sauna for everything, right,

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Speaker 5: So I usually have it leave it as unread in

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Speaker 5: my email, or I'll have it in a sauna, and

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Speaker 5: I just keep changing the do date, like, oh, I'm

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Speaker 5: gonna do with that, and I'm gonna do with that.

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Speaker 5: I've literally had something unread for like months, like I've

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Speaker 5: been more than six months, or just had it on

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Speaker 5: the to do list. And the crazy thing about it

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Speaker 5: is a lot of times when I go ahead and finally,

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Speaker 5: you know, you just have one of those days where

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Speaker 5: either your energy is really good or you're feeling productive

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Speaker 5: and like, you know what, I'm gonna go ahead and

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Speaker 5: get this done, and then you do it. And I

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Speaker 5: was like, that was not bad at all. I could

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Speaker 5: have literally done that before, like, but I just needed

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Speaker 5: to be in the right space for it. So that's

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Speaker 5: the first one that I want to share. I was

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Speaker 5: definitely avoiding the envelope on my desk for quite some time,

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Speaker 5: and yeah, so what about you dom any like lightweight

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Speaker 5: things that you were avoiding.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think about that. I've done that right where

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Speaker 2: there's a task that I want to do. No, let

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Speaker 2: me be real, let me be honest. There's a task

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Speaker 2: that I need to do, but I don't want to

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Speaker 2: do because there's something there that there's some emotional connection

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Speaker 2: to it that I'm trying to avoid. Usually that's what

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Speaker 2: it is.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: So let's say it's a bill that I need to

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Speaker 2: respond to. Right. So, for instance, let's say your cell

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Speaker 2: phone company gives you an extra charge and you're like, shit,

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Speaker 2: I see this extra charge. I need to call them

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Speaker 2: and deal with this because I want my money. My

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Speaker 2: coins is important, right, But you don't have the time

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Speaker 2: or the energy to sit on the phone with them,

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Speaker 2: because you know you're gonna be on hold for a

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Speaker 2: long time. You know you're gonna talk to that one

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Speaker 2: customer service rep and you're gonna be like, lady, this

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Speaker 2: it's not your fault. I need your supervisor because it's

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Speaker 2: his fault. But you don't want to have to go

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Speaker 2: through that, right. You don't have the energy to sit

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Speaker 2: through that process, and so you just let it keep

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Speaker 2: on building up and keep pushing that due date back,

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Speaker 2: and then next thing you know is literally the last

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Speaker 2: day left before you need to call, and you're like, shit,

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Speaker 2: I have no choice what to call, And now you

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Speaker 2: call because if I want my money back. Then I

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Speaker 2: have to call, and so you call and you're like,

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Speaker 2: the fuck, this thing only took me five minutes out

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Speaker 2: of my day. I could have been knocked that out.

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Speaker 5: Yes, okay, real quick. You just made me think of

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Speaker 5: one right now and go. My website was down, right,

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Speaker 5: I don't know what happened, but it was down. I

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Speaker 5: emailed the guy who manages my other website and he's like, oh,

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Speaker 5: if you pay this fee, you can add this other website.

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Speaker 5: And I was like, first of all, I'm not trying

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Speaker 5: to pay an additional fee to you, sir, because I

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Speaker 5: felt like it was easy, Like I felt like the

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Speaker 5: solution was easy, but I just did not have the

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Speaker 5: bandwidth to figure it out. So girl, but I mean

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Speaker 5: weeks it was. It was down for like probably a month,

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Speaker 5: more than a month, and then one day I woke

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Speaker 5: up a little bit earlier, had some time before I

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Speaker 5: had to dive into my to do list and I

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Speaker 5: called my hosting provider. Girl, this man fixed my website

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Speaker 5: in ten minutes for free, and I was like, I

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Speaker 5: could have done that. So it was the avoidance. But

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Speaker 5: I do have some other like more high risk avoidance examples.

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Speaker 5: So this ya this is gonna take us back to

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Speaker 5: middle school. Okay, So in middle school, I was definitely

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Speaker 5: When I look back, I think I was like pretty awkward,

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Speaker 5: but I was like a cool awkward. That's why I

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Speaker 5: like I was a cool awkward. And there was this table.

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Speaker 5: It's gonna be so funny, y'all. It's funny to me

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Speaker 5: because it was my experience, right, But there was this

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Speaker 5: table in the lunch room. We were the lunch room

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Speaker 5: where they have the table that's connected to a little bench.

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Speaker 5: So there was a lunch room where all the kids

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Speaker 5: will sit with their friends. And when you're finished with

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Speaker 5: your food, of course you walk up, you walk your

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Speaker 5: tray up to the little drop off. But when you

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Speaker 5: walk up, it's kind of like you on the wrong way.

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Speaker 5: It's like you're doing what's that called dom when people, Yeah,

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Speaker 5: I have not been out in a long time because

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Speaker 5: of COVID. What is that.

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Speaker 2: Train?

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Speaker 5: Would you go? And it's kind of like a like

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Speaker 5: a fashion show, like everyone's looking at you. So we

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Speaker 5: would always have me and my friends who always have

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Speaker 5: anxiety when we'd be walking down to take up our tray.

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Speaker 5: But there was a table in the very front of

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Speaker 5: the trade drop off, like right at the front of

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Speaker 5: the lunch room. And this is called the black boys table.

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Speaker 5: That's where all the like the cute black boys will sit.

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Speaker 5: So middle school, right, so middle school. So girl, I

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Speaker 5: used to have so much anxiety going up there, so

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Speaker 5: I might ask someone else to return my trade for me,

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Speaker 5: or try to see if I could like go a

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Speaker 5: different way, or wait until they leave so that everyone

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Speaker 5: wouldn't be looking at my outfit, looking at my payless shoes,

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Speaker 5: you know what I mean. Like I was trying to

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Speaker 5: avoid the situation because of the anxiety, but also the

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Speaker 5: possible rejection that would come from that. So that was

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Speaker 5: another example I thought of.

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Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, yes that is I know so many

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Speaker 2: people who can relate to something similar, right like that.

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Speaker 2: And we'll talk about this later about the connection between

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Speaker 2: avoidance and anxiety. But yes, that, yeah, that that is

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Speaker 2: one that a lot of folks experience but don't necessarily

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Speaker 2: talk about, right, So be taking it back to grade school.

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Speaker 2: I remember high school, and I remember being feeling awkward

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Speaker 2: and not coordinated and having anxiety about playing certain sports. Yea,

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Speaker 2: as much as I love to watch the game of basketball,

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Speaker 2: basketball ain't my ministry y'all okay, And people would like

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Speaker 2: to think that because I am five to seven.

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Speaker 5: Ye, I was just thinking and.

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Speaker 2: Got these long legs, that I was like the star

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Speaker 2: basketball player. No players, That ain't my life. Okay, however,

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Speaker 2: because that is not my life, that's what I would

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Speaker 2: avoid in school. So whenever we had so when we

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Speaker 2: had gym class and it wasn't just basketball, let me

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Speaker 2: just be real, it wasn't just basketball. If there was

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Speaker 2: any sport that we had to play that I didn't

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Speaker 2: think that I was good at, or I felt like

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Speaker 2: I might embarrass myself in front of my classmates, and

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Speaker 2: not that I hadn't embarrassed myself before, but I think

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Speaker 2: that served to reinforce this thought that it could happen. Right.

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Speaker 2: I would avoid playing sports during gym class, particularly when

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Speaker 2: I had a male gym coach, by saying I had

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Speaker 2: female problems, and a couple of times he looked he

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Speaker 2: would look at me, like you why, and then I

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Speaker 2: would double over and say, my cramps are so bad

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Speaker 2: I can And then a few times I should have

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Speaker 2: won an award for the tears that I manufactured. Okay,

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Speaker 2: to avoid play sports during gym class, that.

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Speaker 5: Was a good one dom that I feel like this

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Speaker 5: is bringing back so many memories. I know your teacher,

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Speaker 5: he's probably like girl twice in one month though, right,

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Speaker 5: He's probably like but you know, they can't say anything

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Speaker 5: with it, girl. So the last one I'll share. I

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Speaker 5: talked about this in our last episode, like I alluded

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Speaker 5: to something some trauma around to math. So I'll bring

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Speaker 5: up math because for me, so in my household, we

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Speaker 5: did a lot of learning at home. So in addition

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Speaker 5: to what we learned in school, we had like summer

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Speaker 5: school at home. We were reading books and we did

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Speaker 5: all that. And with math, I feel like it just

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Speaker 5: didn't come natural to me. So we did our times

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Speaker 5: tables and we had all these activities we would do.

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Speaker 5: But I was the person. I was the kid that

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Speaker 5: was at the dinner table super late because I couldn't

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Speaker 5: get a problem right and I would get I'll get

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Speaker 5: my ass beat at the kitchen table. And so there

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Speaker 5: was a lot of trauma around those experiences because of

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Speaker 5: the anxiety, because of the fear, and so with math

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Speaker 5: in particular, it was more challenging for me than writing.

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Speaker 5: And so I guess I honestly may have blocked it

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Speaker 5: out of my mind, like the specific situation or instance

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Speaker 5: that happened, but I remember falling asleep at the table

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Speaker 5: or not being able to eat or get something that

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Speaker 5: I excuse me, get something that I wanted because of

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Speaker 5: me not completing something from school or whatever. And so

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Speaker 5: when it comes to math, I know that there's trauma

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Speaker 5: around that because of those experiences that I've had. But

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Speaker 5: the way that shows up today is my grandfather. He

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Speaker 5: passed away, but he used to when we would talk

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Speaker 5: on the phone to catch up, he would ask me

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Speaker 5: random math questions and I would have so much anxiety

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Speaker 5: because I'm like the precious one. He wasn't the one

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Speaker 5: that abused me, but just because he would be asking me,

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Speaker 5: I'm like, oh shit, Like I get sweaty, I start

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Speaker 5: to get anxious, butterflies in my stomach, and I'd be

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Speaker 5: cheating on the phone. I pull up my calculator and

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Speaker 5: be like, oh yeah, nine times he if I know it.

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Speaker 5: And so for me, I feel like when math is

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Speaker 5: presented to me at this big age, I just automatically

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Speaker 5: in my mind, I like turned off the ability to

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Speaker 5: even even if I know the answer, unless it's like

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Speaker 5: two times too, I will look it up just because

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Speaker 5: I don't want to even give my I don't want

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Speaker 5: my brain to go to the place of having to

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Speaker 5: find the answer. Does that make sense?

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Speaker 7: Yeah?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, And there's a lot of a lot around that.

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Speaker 5: But the thing is, and we can dive into this later.

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Speaker 5: I don't have a desire to dig into that or

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Speaker 5: resolve it because of the risk and reward. I don't

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Speaker 5: feel like there's so much more traumatic, you know, there's

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Speaker 5: so much more trauma that I could dive into my

358
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Speaker 5: life that I think will be more meaningful and that

359
00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:02,119
Speaker 5: will but give me breakthroughs that I can see in

360
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Speaker 5: my everyday life as opposed to the math. When that's

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Speaker 5: when I'm just like, eh, if I get bored one

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Speaker 5: day in my bigger age, like if I'm a different age,

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Speaker 5: I may dive into it, but for now, I'm like,

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Speaker 5: we'll just we'll let it sit where it is.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, no, I could. I could totally see that

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Speaker 2: and understand that and thinks that, like, you do have

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Speaker 2: to have that discernment, right, get to that decision point

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Speaker 2: of is this thing that I'm avoiding, what's the impact

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Speaker 2: on my life? Right do I Is this something that

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Speaker 2: is going to harm me if I continue to avoid

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Speaker 2: or is this something that right now, in this present moment,

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Speaker 2: we can go on ahead and keep avoiding and address

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Speaker 2: it when it's when it's necessary, because eventually it will

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Speaker 2: it might come up again right now.

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Speaker 5: One thing I want to say is I think there's

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Speaker 5: also this experience around math. It gives me empathy for

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Speaker 5: people who are avoiding other things because this is something

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Speaker 5: that I am. I would say I'm a little stubborn about.

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Speaker 5: So if someone would have come to me and say, well,

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Speaker 5: you should really dig into that and you should really

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Speaker 5: try to figure out why you don't like math, like

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Speaker 5: if you were to ask me, if someone asked me

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Speaker 5: something about math today, my mind is not like I'm like, okay,

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Speaker 5: I'm going to pull out my calculator. I refuse to

385
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Speaker 5: just stay it off the top of my head because

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Speaker 5: I don't want to go down that journey, like down

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Speaker 5: that route. And so it gives me empathy for people

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Speaker 5: that have I want to say, bigger situations that they're

389
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Speaker 5: trying to avoid because I'm like, oh damn, I get

390
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Speaker 5: it because I know how I feel about math, and

391
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Speaker 5: I know that there's a trauma around that for me,

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Speaker 5: and I don't have an interest in diving into that.

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Speaker 5: So I think that it also helps to give me

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Speaker 5: empathy for those situations.

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Speaker 2: That's a really good point about having empathy for people

396
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Speaker 2: who are avoiding something. I think that I have. What

397
00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:54,119
Speaker 2: I have learned is giving people that space too, and

398
00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:58,919
Speaker 2: me stepping into curiosity around why are they avoiding it? Right?

399
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Speaker 2: Because I used to have there used to be certain things.

400
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Speaker 2: There was a point in my life where my tolerance

401
00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:10,760
Speaker 2: was low for certain things, and so there would be

402
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Speaker 2: something like I remember there was I can't remember which

403
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:16,639
Speaker 2: friend it was, but I had a friend who didn't

404
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:22,679
Speaker 2: like who would never take the highway, and so to

405
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:28,080
Speaker 2: get places they always took the street route. And I

406
00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:30,600
Speaker 2: remember being the space where that annoyed me to no

407
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:36,560
Speaker 2: end because obviously the street route takes a whole lot longer, right, like,

408
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 2: hop your ass on that highway and get there in

409
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Speaker 2: twenty minutes instead of sixty, like I don't understand, And

410
00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:47,720
Speaker 2: that tone and all of that would be what would

411
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:51,480
Speaker 2: show up, right, And I had to step back and

412
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:58,040
Speaker 2: recognize two things. One, my irritation or frustration was not

413
00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:03,840
Speaker 2: necessarily about them. It was about me, right, me wanting

414
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:07,920
Speaker 2: to be like in a hurry, get the situation done,

415
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:10,640
Speaker 2: get to our next thing, like just move, like get

416
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:16,879
Speaker 2: things going, versus when I stepped back and actually like

417
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:21,680
Speaker 2: inquired about what was going on, why do you not

418
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:26,800
Speaker 2: like the highway? Learning that they had been in an

419
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Speaker 2: accident on the highway and while they weren't hurt, thank goodness,

420
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 2: that was still traumatizing for them, and so they were

421
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Speaker 2: given the option would avoid getting on the highway.

422
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Speaker 5: That's a good example, thank you.

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Speaker 2: Like, and because I think there's a lot of people

424
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Speaker 2: that may be dealing with something similar right So at

425
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Speaker 2: some point, yes, they will have to work through the

426
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 2: trauma around what happened with that accident, But for right now,

427
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 2: that's that If that's what they have to do to

428
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Speaker 2: cope and it's not significantly causing any harm to other people, Yeah,

429
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:19,760
Speaker 2: you know people their friends have to wait a little longer,

430
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:26,960
Speaker 2: but it's not causing harm, then they will keep engaging

431
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:30,280
Speaker 2: in that behavior and we can offer empathy to them

432
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Speaker 2: as they are processing through.

433
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's a really good example, and I'm glad that

434
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:39,360
Speaker 5: you shared that because it does just make you think

435
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:42,119
Speaker 5: about I mean, everything is situational. It makes you One

436
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:43,880
Speaker 5: of the questions you asked is something that you said

437
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:48,960
Speaker 5: something similar to, you know, how is it impacting you? Right? Like,

438
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:52,439
Speaker 5: how is it impacting you? And is it hindering something

439
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,240
Speaker 5: like if I wanted to be a mathematician, then it's

440
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:57,760
Speaker 5: like baby guard you want. We're gonna have to dress

441
00:26:57,760 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 5: this trauma.

442
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:01,439
Speaker 2: We're going to get we have therapist work.

443
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 5: Okay, something, We got to do something because that's my

444
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:07,960
Speaker 5: goal and now my trauma is impacting my goal and

445
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 5: my ability to advance and achieve this thing that's important

446
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 5: to me. So, lady, what we're going to do next

447
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 5: is we're going to talk a bit about how avoidance

448
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 5: has helped us, if it has helped us, right, So

449
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 5: you answer these for yourself as well. Also have you

450
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 5: missed out on something because of avoidance? And then we're

451
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:27,480
Speaker 5: going to talk about ways that you may be engaging

452
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 5: in avoidance and what are alternatives to avoidance, to avoidance coping. So, dom,

453
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:37,800
Speaker 5: let's talk about how has avoidance helped you, if it

454
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 5: has helped or maybe it hasn't.

455
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:47,880
Speaker 2: So I would say that it avoidance. There have been

456
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:54,480
Speaker 2: points in life where avoidance has helped me, right, So

457
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 2: I don't know why I keep thinking of like traffic

458
00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 2: situations What is coming up for me personally and how

459
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 2: it has helped me is that I know that there

460
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:15,720
Speaker 2: have been times where I have been trying to avoid

461
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:21,360
Speaker 2: like leaving the house when it's dark out right, And

462
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:25,400
Speaker 2: there's been multiple times where like there's some other thing

463
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:27,919
Speaker 2: that I'm trying to avoid it. They're not coming to

464
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 2: me right now exactly what those things are, but usually

465
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:35,919
Speaker 2: there's something that I'm trying to avoid doing. Typically, the

466
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 2: more recent occurrence for me is avoiding sitting in traffic,

467
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:45,160
Speaker 2: Like I hate that shit and so avoid sitting in traffic.

468
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 2: What has helped how this is how the avoidance has

469
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 2: helped me, is it has led to me like changing

470
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 2: my work schedule, right, It has led to me maybe

471
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:05,719
Speaker 2: leaving for a destination earlier than I intended, so that

472
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 2: I'm not sitting in traffic, right, And then what that

473
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 2: ends up doing, how it ends up helping me is

474
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 2: if I now, let's be clear this, this desire to

475
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:25,040
Speaker 2: avoid traffic does not always work out. What when I

476
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:28,320
Speaker 2: am really good at the avoidance, what it means is

477
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 2: that I am planning far enough in advance that I

478
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 2: leave my destination lead to get to my destination early,

479
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:42,959
Speaker 2: which means then I have time. I get there, and

480
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 2: I have time to get settled, and I have time

481
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:51,360
Speaker 2: to chill, get grounded, and be ready for when that

482
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:57,320
Speaker 2: thing starts. Right, whether it's a hair appointment, a doctor's appointment, whatever,

483
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 2: or an event like whatever it might be, I now

484
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:06,160
Speaker 2: have time to calm down and be ready to show up,

485
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:08,600
Speaker 2: because I know what tends to happen in my life

486
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 2: is that in this era, in this attempt to avoid traffic,

487
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 2: if I don't plan, then I'm rushing. And then I

488
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:20,240
Speaker 2: show up and I'm not grounded, and I feel really anxious,

489
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:23,920
Speaker 2: and I might be a little sweaty, and my heart

490
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:27,719
Speaker 2: rate is up, and I'm not thinking clearly, and it

491
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 2: just isn't a good look. Right. What it has also

492
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:36,480
Speaker 2: done in this avoidance of this error, this attempt to

493
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 2: avoid traffic, is because I've changed, like my work schedule.

494
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 2: What that means is that I am more intentional about

495
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 2: my time with work because I know, particularly in the morning,

496
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 2: that I need to leave by a certain time to

497
00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 2: avoid the traffic. So then that means that I am

498
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:04,959
Speaker 2: on top my mornings. I'm on top of it so

499
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 2: that I can be out the house by a certain

500
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 2: time because I load sitting in the trap. And so

501
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 2: that's an instance where avoidance can be helpful, and I

502
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 2: will continue to engage in those behaviors because it continues

503
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 2: to serve me. See what about you.

504
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 5: I love I love these traffic examples because I feel

505
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 5: like we can offer relate to that too, because I'm

506
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:32,520
Speaker 5: like girl, I don't like no traffic either, but no

507
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:35,160
Speaker 5: one wants to show up and be rushed and flustered

508
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 5: and all that. Like I like to get there and

509
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:38,920
Speaker 5: be able to breathe and go to the bathroom and

510
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:40,920
Speaker 5: may put a little bit more deodorant on. I'm a

511
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 5: little sweaty. So I like that example a lot ne lad.

512
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:46,120
Speaker 5: I do want to say that I just want to

513
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 5: give you a quick trigger warning because mine is going

514
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 5: to be around some you know, intense trauma. So I

515
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 5: just want to give you that quick warning. If you're

516
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:56,800
Speaker 5: not in the space, you may not want to If

517
00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 5: you're not in good space, you may want to just

518
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 5: fast forward this part. So dom I will say that

519
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 5: mine is sexual trauma and really just abuse in general.

520
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 5: And so the interesting thing is I was in therapy

521
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 5: for years and I would talk about all of the

522
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 5: I want to say the lightweight stuff like oh, yeah, work,

523
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:19,959
Speaker 5: this person did this, or I need help with this.

524
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:23,200
Speaker 5: And literally it took me a year with this one

525
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 5: particular therapist for me to actually talk about being molested

526
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:28,800
Speaker 5: when I was younger and to dive into that. And

527
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:31,480
Speaker 5: there are so many layers to the abuse that I experienced.

528
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:35,080
Speaker 5: Even at this point, I haven't dove in to everything,

529
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:38,320
Speaker 5: but I dove in deep enough, and I'm slow walking myself,

530
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:41,560
Speaker 5: so I would say that, you know, for years, I

531
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 5: didn't talk about this, I didn't even really think about

532
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 5: it within myself, and there are still some things that

533
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:48,120
Speaker 5: I haven't shared. But when I was trying to get pregnant,

534
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 5: that was a time when I did a lot of

535
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:55,640
Speaker 5: intense childhood trauma deep dives where I was really going

536
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 5: back into what I experienced because I really felt in

537
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:01,360
Speaker 5: my gut that I was holding onto stuff in my

538
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 5: womb space that was really preventing me from releasing and

539
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 5: clearing that energy so that I could get pregnant and

540
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:11,680
Speaker 5: keep the pregnancy right and have the baby that I

541
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:15,200
Speaker 5: was looking to have. And so that was the thing

542
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:18,719
Speaker 5: that I was avoiding, and it served me because it

543
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:21,600
Speaker 5: allowed me not to retraumatize myself because I don't think

544
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:25,320
Speaker 5: I was ready at that time to relive those experiences.

545
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 5: And that's why I slow walk myself into it, because

546
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 5: they were I mean, there were horrific things that happened

547
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:32,480
Speaker 5: and things that you know, I sometimes think like, how

548
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 5: would I did this impact me as a person? Did

549
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:37,600
Speaker 5: it impact me you know, my sex life? Did it

550
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 5: impact the way that I show up sexually?

551
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 2: You know?

552
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 5: Did I go through these different phases of you know,

553
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:47,280
Speaker 5: promiscuity or avoidance because of the things that happened to me?

554
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 5: So those are some loaded questions. I was like, I

555
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 5: am not ready to dive into this, right but I

556
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:56,960
Speaker 5: think that me trying to have my child really presented

557
00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 5: a great opportunity for me to do to dive into

558
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:02,200
Speaker 5: that work because it was bigger than myself. And the

559
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 5: last thing I wanted to state around this is at

560
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 5: one point when I was writing my book Dom, I

561
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 5: had explored going under hypnosis to maybe figure out, oh

562
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 5: what else can I what else may have happened to

563
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 5: my story that I could write about? But I know

564
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 5: for a fact that there are many things that my

565
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:21,440
Speaker 5: memory was like, baby girl, we're not going to remember

566
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:25,560
Speaker 5: this because it's probably best that you not know about

567
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:29,360
Speaker 5: all these things, because I'm an overthinker already, and so

568
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:31,880
Speaker 5: I just can only imagine what I would do if I,

569
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:34,480
Speaker 5: you know, had a level of detail that I probably

570
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:38,040
Speaker 5: should I just probably shouldn't have, and I probably don't

571
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:41,160
Speaker 5: want to have. So that was loaded. That was a lot, lady,

572
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:43,359
Speaker 5: I know, but I do think that avoidance in that

573
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:46,719
Speaker 5: case has helped me a lot, because I just I

574
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:48,480
Speaker 5: don't think I was ready for all of that.

575
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:52,239
Speaker 2: Thank you for sharing that, and you know, because I

576
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:55,279
Speaker 2: think that what you shared is important that a lot

577
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:59,840
Speaker 2: of people who have experienced sexual trauma also go through

578
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:06,080
Speaker 2: right that. So some of it is you described repressing memories,

579
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:14,320
Speaker 2: and some of it is avoiding avoiding the topic because

580
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 2: it's protecting you, right that.

581
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 1: You know.

582
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:21,480
Speaker 2: I tell folks all the time, particularly my therapy clients,

583
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:27,480
Speaker 2: that we our brains are wired to protect us. Our

584
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:35,239
Speaker 2: brains are wired to increase pleasure decrease pain. So if

585
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:42,480
Speaker 2: there are things that we could potentially experience that would

586
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 2: cause us pain, sometimes our brains get ahead of us

587
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 2: and allow us to engage in behaviors or thoughts or

588
00:35:53,040 --> 00:36:00,120
Speaker 2: feelings to avoid sitting with the pain. And then there

589
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 2: are lots of times where that serves us well. And

590
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 2: the thing that I like to point out too is

591
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 2: that when we're ready, even though there's this phrase that

592
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:18,400
Speaker 2: you know what you resist, persist, when you are ready,

593
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:20,840
Speaker 2: you'll stop avoiding.

594
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 5: Yes, that is so powerful, Tom, Thank you for sharing

595
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 5: and adding the psychologist's perspective on everything that I share.

596
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 5: That's super helpful. So I appreciate that dome. And then

597
00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:38,960
Speaker 5: last before we dive into some of the other topics

598
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:40,879
Speaker 5: that we talked about that we said we talked about, Lady,

599
00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:45,160
Speaker 5: we want to talk about missing out on something because

600
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:47,680
Speaker 5: of avoidance. Has that ever happened to you? Have you

601
00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:54,160
Speaker 5: missed out on something because you are avoiding? You said, yeah, yes, yeah, girl.

602
00:36:56,200 --> 00:37:00,200
Speaker 2: So right now there is I thought I had a

603
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:04,240
Speaker 2: specific story that was coming to mind, but I seem

604
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:09,040
Speaker 2: to have lost it, okay, and so lost what that

605
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:13,000
Speaker 2: memory was that I wanted to share. And so, but

606
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:18,440
Speaker 2: what does come up for me is that there have

607
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:21,600
Speaker 2: been lots of points in life where I would like

608
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:31,480
Speaker 2: feel socially anxious and I would avoid going to something

609
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:36,640
Speaker 2: some type of social engagement because I felt really anxious

610
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:39,880
Speaker 2: about like how I would be perceived or how I

611
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:45,440
Speaker 2: should act in that moment, in that scenario, and I

612
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 2: know and right now, there's not a specific one that's

613
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:52,480
Speaker 2: coming to mind, but I know there have been times

614
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 2: where my friends have gone out and maybe they ran

615
00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:59,280
Speaker 2: into this really cute guy that I know I probably

616
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:01,560
Speaker 2: would have been a practiced too if had I gone

617
00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:04,680
Speaker 2: out with them, and maybe maybe that could have been

618
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 2: my future husband, right like, Or maybe they ran into

619
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:14,879
Speaker 2: like a celebrity that I really like a big fan

620
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:18,840
Speaker 2: of and would have wanted to fangirl out for a moment,

621
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:22,640
Speaker 2: and I missed out on that because I didn't allow

622
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:28,320
Speaker 2: myself to go all right, So there's not one specific

623
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:31,440
Speaker 2: thing that's coming up, but I know that there have

624
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 2: been plenty of social opportunities that and even just connecting

625
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:41,879
Speaker 2: on a deeper level with my friends right that in

626
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:46,719
Speaker 2: that moment, having that shared experience that I missed out

627
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 2: on because I was feeling socially anxious, and I found

628
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:54,319
Speaker 2: a way to get out of that situation. What about

629
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:54,560
Speaker 2: for you?

630
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:57,920
Speaker 5: I'm going to share mine, Tom, but I went googling

631
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:00,799
Speaker 5: while you were sharing, and I want I want to

632
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:03,839
Speaker 5: bring attention to one of our episodes about social anxiety.

633
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:07,640
Speaker 5: So season four Dom this was season four, episode one.

634
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:11,600
Speaker 5: We have the episode called Beyond Shyness, how to Face

635
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:15,120
Speaker 5: your Social Anxiety Fears, and so many women really enjoy

636
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:16,799
Speaker 5: this episode, lady, so make sure you go check that

637
00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:21,360
Speaker 5: out season four episode one. Okay, so myn dom is

638
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 5: honestly around the same topic. So I had an opportunity.

639
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:25,000
Speaker 5: I'm not going to dive into deep, so I want

640
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:26,840
Speaker 5: us to be able to dive into some of the

641
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:29,400
Speaker 5: other stuff here. But years ago, I had an opportunity

642
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:35,600
Speaker 5: to apply to be a speaker at this summit where

643
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:37,040
Speaker 5: I was like, this is in the beginning of my

644
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:40,400
Speaker 5: public speaking career and it was for this motivational speaking

645
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:45,080
Speaker 5: conference and they would basically critique my speech and I

646
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:46,960
Speaker 5: agreed to do it, and then I backed out at

647
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:48,960
Speaker 5: the last minutes. I was like, oh fuck, no, I'm

648
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:51,960
Speaker 5: too scared. I was too nervous. Long story short, I

649
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:53,919
Speaker 5: ended up going to the event. I saw other people

650
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:55,640
Speaker 5: getting up to do it and it wasn't bad at all.

651
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:58,200
Speaker 5: It didn't seem bad, and I was like, oh, let

652
00:39:58,239 --> 00:39:59,600
Speaker 5: me ask him if I can go up and do

653
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:02,759
Speaker 5: it now. They were like girl, no, Like they didn't

654
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:04,400
Speaker 5: say it like that, but they were just like, oh, sorry,

655
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:06,560
Speaker 5: like we don't have the space anymore, like all the

656
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:09,880
Speaker 5: slots have been filled. And I remember seeing a seventeen

657
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:12,000
Speaker 5: year old girl there who went up to speak and

658
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:14,000
Speaker 5: she did an amazing job, and I was just like,

659
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:16,040
Speaker 5: damn it, I missed out on this opportunity. So I

660
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:19,600
Speaker 5: promised myself after that, whenever I feel the fear, I

661
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:22,360
Speaker 5: would do it anyway, and whenever I felt butterflies, I

662
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:25,719
Speaker 5: would do it anyway. And I've been filling the fear

663
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:28,120
Speaker 5: and doing it anyway ever since, so I do a

664
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:28,720
Speaker 5: lot of things.

665
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:29,360
Speaker 2: I love that.

666
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:32,240
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's scared of me. So that is my example.

667
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:35,040
Speaker 5: I did miss out, but then I changed the game

668
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:38,120
Speaker 5: on how I approached those fearful situations.

669
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:41,319
Speaker 2: Thank you for sharing that example. I love that because

670
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:44,560
Speaker 2: I think that that is a common thing that happens

671
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:49,360
Speaker 2: for us, right is that we avoid because we're scared,

672
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:57,080
Speaker 2: and then we're like, oh, I need to I missed

673
00:40:57,080 --> 00:40:59,040
Speaker 2: out on this, and then we might have a little

674
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:04,000
Speaker 2: bit of regard rep and then it's like, Okay, what

675
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:05,759
Speaker 2: do I how do I do? What do I do

676
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:08,800
Speaker 2: with it? And some people may sit in that regret

677
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:12,799
Speaker 2: and continue to avoid. But I love how you took

678
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:17,759
Speaker 2: that and you took that limit and made your lemonade,

679
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:23,000
Speaker 2: and you use that as an opportunity to say, Okay,

680
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:26,200
Speaker 2: I need to show up now because I see where

681
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:30,920
Speaker 2: I see. I got the lessons lesson received. I'm not

682
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:33,120
Speaker 2: going to miss out on an opportunity again because of

683
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:34,600
Speaker 2: my fear. I'm going to step into it.

684
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:38,400
Speaker 5: Yes, I got the lesson lessen received, and that's it.

685
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:39,960
Speaker 5: That's what. That's the best we can do. Right, You

686
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:42,719
Speaker 5: get these lessons and you change how you plan to

687
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:45,120
Speaker 5: move forward, all right, lady, So we're going to jump

688
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:48,279
Speaker 5: into ways you may be engaging in avoidance, and I

689
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:49,920
Speaker 5: just want to pause real quick because we're kind of

690
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:52,040
Speaker 5: like I guess past mid episode.

691
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 2: Lady.

692
00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:55,480
Speaker 5: If you're enjoying this conversation, make sure you follow us

693
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:57,640
Speaker 5: on Instagram and connect with us. We love to send

694
00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:01,120
Speaker 5: you messages and respond to your comments at her Space podcast.

695
00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:04,320
Speaker 5: And also, Lady, it helps us out when you leave reviews,

696
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:07,239
Speaker 5: So please leave us a five star review because it'll

697
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:09,800
Speaker 5: help more black women like you tune into the podcast

698
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:13,719
Speaker 5: and get access. So Dom, the first one here says, oh,

699
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:17,320
Speaker 5: this is familiar right for both of us on social

700
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:20,640
Speaker 5: situations because something about the scenario makes you anxious. I've

701
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:23,719
Speaker 5: definitely been there girl, for sure, networking it, yes, but

702
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:25,920
Speaker 5: I have a plan now, so I prepare for them,

703
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:28,160
Speaker 5: you know, before we get into them. But yeah, that's

704
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:32,600
Speaker 5: the first one, and then we have ooh oh.

705
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:37,680
Speaker 2: Okay, now I know that for a couple of these,

706
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:40,520
Speaker 2: we talk we talk about the black men on doing

707
00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:44,680
Speaker 2: this by lady, you know you'll be doing this too.

708
00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:52,440
Speaker 2: Mm hm says that right here. Yes, not going to

709
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:58,319
Speaker 2: the doctor, not taking your car to the mechanics, or

710
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:05,000
Speaker 2: not paying your taxi, not answering that phone call, all

711
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:09,200
Speaker 2: because you believe and are afraid that you're gonna get

712
00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 2: bad news. Yeah, I want.

713
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:16,520
Speaker 5: To lead into Lovey's quote for those, because those are

714
00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:19,880
Speaker 5: important ones that will impact our future, you know, like

715
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:22,560
Speaker 5: if you don't pay the taxi, un said, they're gonna

716
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:23,480
Speaker 5: come knocking.

717
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:26,520
Speaker 2: Right, don't you saw what happened to Westless Knipes.

718
00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:30,480
Speaker 5: Okay, So those are definitely important. The next one here,

719
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:33,840
Speaker 5: don not having a conversation or speaking up for yourself

720
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:36,359
Speaker 5: if you think it'll be uncomfortable or make the other

721
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:39,719
Speaker 5: person mad at you, or I've definitely been here too, so.

722
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:45,439
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, and rebredited later on yep, because the only

723
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:47,919
Speaker 2: person that ends up really hurting and all of that

724
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:56,120
Speaker 2: is yourself exactly. And so the next one mmm mm hmm.

725
00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:02,440
Speaker 2: We need to stop playing small, y'all. Okay, so not

726
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:07,040
Speaker 2: giving one hundred percent or keeping a low profile because

727
00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:12,080
Speaker 2: you don't want to be the center of attention. Stop

728
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:13,320
Speaker 2: playing small, y'all.

729
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:16,839
Speaker 5: I wonder who wrote these because I feel like these

730
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:19,200
Speaker 5: are all directed towards me. But maybe it's just me

731
00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:24,400
Speaker 5: being Maybe it's just me being guilty conscience. The last

732
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:27,800
Speaker 5: one here is allowing self to be distracted by planning

733
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:32,439
Speaker 5: other things and not being fully present. So anyone else

734
00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:38,440
Speaker 5: a recovering procrastinator out there, our hands are up. If

735
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:40,919
Speaker 5: you can't see us, lady, we are Yes, our hands

736
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:43,760
Speaker 5: are up. We have been there before. But it's all

737
00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:46,280
Speaker 5: I mean. We talked about this in the last episode

738
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:49,279
Speaker 5: acknowledgment right, acknowledging where we are in the journey. So

739
00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:52,960
Speaker 5: should we dive into these alternatives to avoidance coping?

740
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:54,720
Speaker 2: Yes, we should.

741
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:56,440
Speaker 5: All right down, I'll let you go ahead and take

742
00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:57,280
Speaker 5: it away, girl.

743
00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:00,960
Speaker 2: So this first one, y'all know this my personal favor,

744
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:02,799
Speaker 2: and y'all hear me say this all the time, and

745
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:05,680
Speaker 2: I will own that I am biased on this, but

746
00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:14,200
Speaker 2: again therapy, because therapy will give you that space to

747
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:18,239
Speaker 2: discuss the patterns and the roots of those patterns with

748
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:27,440
Speaker 2: a license trained professional. So when we talked about sexual trauma,

749
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:35,640
Speaker 2: right when we talk about the social anxiety, even when

750
00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:40,400
Speaker 2: we talk about avoiding answering that phone call, paying your taxes,

751
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:46,120
Speaker 2: going to the doctor, you can talk about the underlying

752
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:50,440
Speaker 2: causes of those things in therapy, and your therapist can

753
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:54,160
Speaker 2: help you get through some of these next steps that

754
00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:55,960
Speaker 2: we're going to talk about. What's the next one? Team?

755
00:45:56,600 --> 00:46:01,840
Speaker 5: The next one? Well, lady, just take those baby steps.

756
00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:04,720
Speaker 5: Do something right that pushes you in the right direction.

757
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:06,840
Speaker 5: So start with one step instead of the whole situation

758
00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:09,800
Speaker 5: at once. Although I don't eat elephants, I feel like

759
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:12,000
Speaker 5: there's a quote that says, like to eat an elephant's

760
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:14,879
Speaker 5: one bite at a time or something like that. Yeah,

761
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:17,560
Speaker 5: y'all you get what I'm saying. Lady, just take that

762
00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:20,000
Speaker 5: one baby step. And so whether it's I mean, Dom

763
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:22,240
Speaker 5: and I literally just did this for ourselves. So literally

764
00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:24,719
Speaker 5: we are recording the episodes, but we're also taking our

765
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:27,680
Speaker 5: own advice because there are some things in our lives

766
00:46:28,239 --> 00:46:30,879
Speaker 5: and our lives and our life and our world that

767
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:35,200
Speaker 5: we have been avoiding, and so we have literally marked

768
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:37,319
Speaker 5: out the next steps said, Okay, what are we going

769
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:39,839
Speaker 5: to do, who's going to do what, what's the do date?

770
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:42,600
Speaker 5: And then let's go do it. So take those baby steps.

771
00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:48,719
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, and then the next thing is get get

772
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 2: comfortable with being uncomfortable. Right So recognizing that and you've

773
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:00,640
Speaker 2: heard this phrase before, I can't remember that, that's how

774
00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:04,520
Speaker 2: it goes now, but basically that like you're gonna be

775
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:08,160
Speaker 2: to have the growth that you need, it's not going

776
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:12,359
Speaker 2: to be easy. There will be some level of discomfort,

777
00:47:13,719 --> 00:47:17,680
Speaker 2: and you want to get comfortable with going through that

778
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:23,640
Speaker 2: because if we reframe it, what we will acknowledge is

779
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:28,880
Speaker 2: that to get to the good stuff, we have to

780
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:31,640
Speaker 2: go through some hard stuff.

781
00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:35,879
Speaker 5: Aimen to that dome you're very preaching, and that takes

782
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:38,840
Speaker 5: us to number four, lady, which is enlisting the support

783
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:41,000
Speaker 5: of friends. I mean, I just share it with you

784
00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:43,640
Speaker 5: that Domini are on this podcast and journey together and

785
00:47:44,360 --> 00:47:47,319
Speaker 5: we help each other rise to the occasion and be

786
00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:49,359
Speaker 5: consistent and do the things that we need to do.

787
00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:51,960
Speaker 5: So that's the I think that's the perfect example right there.

788
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:55,160
Speaker 5: Get you some good friends who can help support you

789
00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:56,560
Speaker 5: along the way.

790
00:47:57,360 --> 00:48:01,160
Speaker 2: And hold you accountable and be like girl, you set

791
00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:05,240
Speaker 2: this goal of going to the gym every day. Okay,

792
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:09,400
Speaker 2: it's Wednesday, where are you at right? And so then

793
00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:14,239
Speaker 2: that takes us to number five, which is make a

794
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:19,560
Speaker 2: plan to address the situation. So as you're making a plan,

795
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:22,120
Speaker 2: as you're identifying what that thing is that you're avoiding,

796
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:27,439
Speaker 2: you can enlist the help of your friends to help

797
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:32,200
Speaker 2: you make that plan right, Get your therapist or whatever

798
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:37,120
Speaker 2: professional might you might need to help you make a

799
00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:44,120
Speaker 2: plan to address whatever it is that you might be avoiding.

800
00:48:45,640 --> 00:48:48,520
Speaker 5: And the last, but not least, lady, engage in self

801
00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:52,960
Speaker 5: care before and after. So ideally we have a self

802
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:56,520
Speaker 5: care practice that we some type of ritual right that

803
00:48:56,520 --> 00:48:59,320
Speaker 5: we're doing on a consistent basis. And I believe that

804
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:02,840
Speaker 5: especially when you do something, when you finally take those steps,

805
00:49:03,239 --> 00:49:05,800
Speaker 5: do something for yourself right. So, whether it's a treat,

806
00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:07,719
Speaker 5: whether it's that bag that you want to owe them,

807
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:10,960
Speaker 5: speakers or whatever it might be, do something for yourself

808
00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:14,120
Speaker 5: right by way of self care. So a nice bath, right,

809
00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:17,480
Speaker 5: candle it bath, thinking yourself gratitude, you know, writing about

810
00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:20,320
Speaker 5: yourself and your gratitude journal, whatever it might be. Engaging

811
00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:23,040
Speaker 5: in self care is always so important, you know, we

812
00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:24,040
Speaker 5: talk about that a lot.

813
00:49:24,719 --> 00:49:25,760
Speaker 2: So anything you want to add.

814
00:49:25,640 --> 00:49:29,040
Speaker 5: To self care down before I did the quick recap, No,

815
00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:31,200
Speaker 5: I think you said it all right, lady, So we're

816
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:33,120
Speaker 5: gonna go ahead and give you a quick recap here on

817
00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:37,640
Speaker 5: the alternatives to avoidance coping. So you have therapy, you

818
00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:41,759
Speaker 5: have taken those baby steps, get comfortable being uncomfortable and

819
00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:45,000
Speaker 5: listing in the support of friends, make a plan to

820
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:49,040
Speaker 5: address the situation, and engage in self care before and

821
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:52,200
Speaker 5: after and after. Thank you for tuning in, lady. We'll

822
00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:53,120
Speaker 5: see you next time.

823
00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:58,080
Speaker 7: Hey, lady, is doctor dom here from the Cultivating her

824
00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:02,160
Speaker 7: Space podcast. Are you currently a resident of the state

825
00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:07,640
Speaker 7: of California and contemplating starting your therapy journey? Well, if so,

826
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:12,680
Speaker 7: please reach out to me at doctor Dominique Brusard dot com.

827
00:50:13,120 --> 00:50:18,120
Speaker 7: That's d R D O M I N I q

828
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:22,680
Speaker 7: U E B R O U S s ar D

829
00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:28,400
Speaker 7: dot com to schedule a free fifteen minute consultation. I

830
00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:33,240
Speaker 7: look forward to hearing from you. Thanks for joining us today.

831
00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:39,719
Speaker 7: Please note that our show may contain conversations about self help, advice,

832
00:50:40,360 --> 00:50:44,600
Speaker 7: self empowerment, and mental health, but is by no means

833
00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:48,520
Speaker 7: meant to be a substitute for an ongoing formal relationship

834
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:52,560
Speaker 7: with a trained mental health provider. If you are someone

835
00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:55,960
Speaker 7: you know is in need of mental health care, please

836
00:50:56,080 --> 00:51:01,200
Speaker 7: visit a Therapy for Black Girls directory Psychology today or

837
00:51:01,239 --> 00:51:02,920
Speaker 7: contact your insurance provider.

838
00:51:03,320 --> 00:51:04,960
Speaker 5: If you liked what you heard and want to keep

839
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:08,880
Speaker 5: the conversation going, connect with us on Facebook, Instagram, and

840
00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:13,880
Speaker 5: Twitter at herspace podcast or check out our website at

841
00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:17,680
Speaker 5: herspace podcast dot com. And before we meet again, repeat

842
00:51:17,719 --> 00:51:22,480
Speaker 5: after me. I attract abundance and prosperity with ease