1 00:00:01,200 --> 00:00:08,920 Speaker 1: The volume. It's the Colin Coward Podcast presented by FanDuel. 2 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:13,440 Speaker 1: The sports calendar is packed. No better place to get 3 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:16,240 Speaker 1: in on the action than FanDuel. So many sports right now, NBA, 4 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:19,800 Speaker 1: College Hoops, March Madness, PGA two. Ur app is safe, secure, 5 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:23,520 Speaker 1: easy to use. They've got exclusive offers, boosts, all that 6 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:26,079 Speaker 1: stuff this month on FanDuel. And when you'll win, you 7 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:29,640 Speaker 1: get paid fast. So jump into the action. They have 8 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 1: live betting. You can combine multiple bets same game and 9 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:37,680 Speaker 1: the same game parlay. Tryout same Game parlay plus. Start 10 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:40,840 Speaker 1: making every moment more and download the FanDuel app today 11 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:44,519 Speaker 1: twenty one plus in select states. Fanduels offering online sports 12 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 1: wagering in Kansas under an agreement with Kansas dar Casino LLC. 13 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:52,640 Speaker 1: Gambling problem called one eight hundred gambler or visit FanDuel 14 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:58,600 Speaker 1: dot com, slash rg Colorado, Iowa, Michigan, New Jersey, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Tennessee, 15 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:02,280 Speaker 1: Virginia one hundred, next step or text next step to 16 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:05,640 Speaker 1: five three three four two, Arizona one eight at eight 17 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:09,480 Speaker 1: seven eight nine seven seven seven seven or visit CCPG 18 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:12,200 Speaker 1: dot org slash chat Connecticut one eight hundred and nine 19 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:14,640 Speaker 1: with it Indiana one eight hundred five two two forty 20 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:17,680 Speaker 1: seven hundred. Visit KS gambling help dot com Kansas one 21 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:21,360 Speaker 1: eight seven seven seven seven oh Stop Louisiana called one 22 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 1: eight hundred three two seven fifty fifty or visit WWWMA 23 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 1: Underscore Helpline dot org. Slash Problem Gambling visit www dot 24 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:32,759 Speaker 1: MD gambling help dot org Maryland one eight seven seven 25 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 1: eight Hope New York or text Hope New York four 26 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:37,319 Speaker 1: six seven three six nine New York one eight hundred 27 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 1: five two two forty seven hundred Wyoming, or visit www 28 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:51,920 Speaker 1: dot one eight hundred gambler dot net West Virginia. Hi. Everybody, 29 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 1: Welcome in to a Wednesday morning podcast. Every year, I 30 00:01:56,440 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 1: interview Sam Smith, who in nineteen ninety one wrote the 31 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 1: New York Times best seller of The Jordan Rules, which 32 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 1: sort of defined the first real public criticism of Michael 33 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 1: Jordan and the pushback he received. But Sam has a 34 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:16,600 Speaker 1: lot of depth and knowledge on MJ and a lot 35 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 1: of positive things to say, so I think you'll really 36 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:21,960 Speaker 1: like the interview. There's a lot of things he brought 37 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 1: up that I had not thought about, and I want 38 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:27,920 Speaker 1: to talk for about five minutes about the movie The 39 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 1: Air movie on Jordan and Sonny Vacaro. So I saw 40 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 1: at the Other night, Monday night premier in LA at 41 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:42,080 Speaker 1: the Design Center in West Hollywood. And so years and 42 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 1: years ago, my first recollection of Sonny Vacaro, I covered 43 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:48,639 Speaker 1: U and LV out of college thirty years ago, over 44 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:51,840 Speaker 1: thirty years ago, and Vacaro hung around the program because 45 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:54,120 Speaker 1: you know, at that time, you and LV was on 46 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:57,359 Speaker 1: a shortlist of the most captivating programs in the country. 47 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 1: And you'd see Sonny Vacaro around the program. And to 48 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:03,520 Speaker 1: be honest with you, you know, Tark always had that 49 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:08,120 Speaker 1: kind of just you know, little shadiness. You know. Tark 50 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 1: was given by un l V about forty tickets per 51 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:14,239 Speaker 1: home game, and Tark could give those out to whoever 52 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 1: he wanted. It was very unique. Even the top coaches 53 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:19,800 Speaker 1: in college basketball at that time, Dean Smith, Nolan Richardson 54 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 1: at Arkansas maybe got four or five tickets per home game. 55 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 1: Tark had like forty forty five. So there were always 56 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 1: people hanging around practice that you know, we're a little 57 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:33,400 Speaker 1: a little shady, you know. And I'd see Sonny of 58 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:36,000 Speaker 1: Acaro around and I didn't know what to make of him. 59 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:39,920 Speaker 1: He was always a very nice guy. But anybody that 60 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 1: hung around Tark, you know, I was a journalist, there 61 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 1: was some controversial players I was always a little suspicious of. 62 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:48,600 Speaker 1: But you could tell very early on he had such 63 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 1: an affection for players. The players loved him. He loved 64 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 1: the players. And then I started asking around about Sonny Vaccaro, 65 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 1: and you found that he was a really brilliant basketball 66 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 1: mind with his heart in the right place. He thought, 67 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 1: he thought players deserve something for all their time and effort. 68 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:08,920 Speaker 1: And Sonny Pacaro was a really important figure in the 69 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:16,040 Speaker 1: NCAA's history on reforming college sports. But Vicaro plays a 70 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 1: key role in this movie because as Nike was mostly 71 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:24,039 Speaker 1: a jogging company, because that's what Phil Knight did. And 72 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:27,719 Speaker 1: Phil Knight, you know in the movie, is you know, 73 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:33,560 Speaker 1: not wearing socks, you know, often wandering intellectually. He had 74 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 1: spent a lot of time in Asia, and Phil was 75 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:41,279 Speaker 1: always a unique had kind of an Eastern not Western perspective, 76 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:46,120 Speaker 1: an Eastern perspective on a psychology and philosophy and business. 77 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 1: Makes him a fascinating guy, Phil Knight, And you know, 78 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 1: Vacaro was just a tough, minded, gruff little Chubby was 79 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 1: never going to jog. They were very different people, but 80 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 1: in the movie, I think it gives you a sense 81 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:05,479 Speaker 1: of how Phil respected Sonny Vacaro and how Sonny Vacaro 82 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:10,039 Speaker 1: appreciated the courage of a Phil Knight. I think it's 83 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 1: I really thought it was an excellent movie. I'm no 84 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:16,880 Speaker 1: film critic, but the audience erupted in applause multiple times. 85 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:21,159 Speaker 1: And my takeaway on it, I love the relationship between 86 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:24,839 Speaker 1: Sonny Vacaro, who's finally sort of getting the affirmation in 87 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 1: the validation he deserves. Phil's gotten plenty of it. And 88 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 1: also for Michael Jordan's mother, And a real big takeaway 89 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:36,720 Speaker 1: I had in this movie is that Michael's mother, still living, 90 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 1: is a no nonsense woman growing up in the South, 91 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:46,279 Speaker 1: very protective of her son and very demanding of others 92 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:50,920 Speaker 1: respecting her son. And she comes off as incredibly likable 93 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:54,920 Speaker 1: in the movie and powerful. And I really think you 94 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 1: win as an audience watching this movie. You have great 95 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 1: respect for Michael's parents, for Sonny Vicarro, and those people 96 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:06,000 Speaker 1: have not been given the credit and the Michael Jordan's story, 97 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:11,800 Speaker 1: at least outwardly that they probably deserve. So I highly 98 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 1: recommend watching it. For me, it was so personal because 99 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:17,360 Speaker 1: I grew up in the Pacific Northwest and spent six 100 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 1: seven years in Portland. I loved all the drone shots 101 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:24,120 Speaker 1: to the Nike campus and the Steve Prefontaine images and 102 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:28,679 Speaker 1: you know the bridges, you see cars, you know, driving over. 103 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:32,360 Speaker 1: It was really for me. It really worked as a movie, 104 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 1: but I think it gives credit to people who probably 105 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:39,800 Speaker 1: haven't been given those accolades previously in Michael Jordan's legendary career. 106 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:42,279 Speaker 1: You know. I also thought there was a very clever 107 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 1: touch by Ben Affleck is that you never really see 108 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:49,160 Speaker 1: Michael Jordan in the movie. You hear his voice, you 109 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 1: see him from the back, and that's interesting metaphorically because 110 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 1: Michael is a really, really private guy, and without Michael 111 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 1: having a big role in the movie, it allows you 112 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:04,359 Speaker 1: to concentrate more on key figures like his mother and 113 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:09,560 Speaker 1: Sonny Vicaro and Phil Knight. So it gets multiple thumbs 114 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:13,680 Speaker 1: up from me. Very touching, very genuine, and credit to 115 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 1: people who have deserved more through the years. In Michael's 116 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:25,400 Speaker 1: amazing basketball journey with the NFL season, over all eyes 117 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 1: in the sporting world turned everything from the NBA to 118 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 1: college hoops to the NHL. Plenty of games to watch 119 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 1: are even better, plenty of games to get out of 120 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 1: the house and actually go to. That's why the best 121 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 1: way to get your hands on tickets when you want 122 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 1: to go to one of these games, check out game Time, 123 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:46,240 Speaker 1: fastest growing ticket app in the US. Game Time offer 124 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 1: amazing last minute deals on tickets to your best favorite 125 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:53,840 Speaker 1: NBA hockey NCAA teams. Top of that, they sell last 126 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 1: minute concert and comedy show tickets too. Download the game 127 00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 1: Time app downloaded. Redeem code is Holland twenty bucks off 128 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 1: your first purchase. Terms apply again. Download the app and 129 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 1: of the code Collins col I n twenty bucks off. 130 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 1: Download game Time today last minute tickets, lowest price guaranteed. Well, 131 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 1: I did watch the movie The Air movie about the 132 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 1: early version of Nike Sonny Vacaro and Michael Jordan, and 133 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 1: Michael's mom plays a key figure in this movie. She's 134 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:35,640 Speaker 1: really the star of the movie. And I thought as 135 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:38,319 Speaker 1: I watched the movie, I've been very critical of Michael 136 00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:42,880 Speaker 1: through the years, saying that Nike's Air Jordan commercials the 137 00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:47,720 Speaker 1: greatest domestic ad campaign of my life, and it has 138 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:52,640 Speaker 1: created almost a reaganlike shield a Teflon shield around Michael, 139 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 1: when if you simply acknowledge previous failings, you're considered a hater. Well, 140 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 1: Sam Smith, who, Well, it's the original critic of Michael, 141 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 1: the only one. Back in nineteen ninety one, The Jordan Rules, 142 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:09,560 Speaker 1: a magnificent book on the turbulent season with Michael Jordan 143 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 1: and the Bulls New York Times bestseller. It was the 144 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:15,360 Speaker 1: talk of the literary sports world for several years. He 145 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 1: got a Lifetime Achievement Award, Pro Basketball Writers Association, Kurt 146 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:22,559 Speaker 1: Goudy Media Award Hall of Fame currently writes for Bulls 147 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 1: dot Com. And whenever I'm critical of Jordan, as I 148 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 1: watched that movie, I always get major pushback. And I've 149 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:32,960 Speaker 1: said this before that you know Michael would punch a 150 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:35,520 Speaker 1: player and they would say, well, he's just very competitive. 151 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 1: Draymond Green punches a guy, should be thrown out of 152 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:40,160 Speaker 1: the league. And I think, you know, it's part of 153 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 1: that smile and charisma. When you released the book, you 154 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:46,960 Speaker 1: obviously knew you were Michael was wildly popular. Did you 155 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 1: expect the avalanche criticism? Did you know it was coming? Cole? 156 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:54,960 Speaker 1: Let me say first, if Michael punched somebody and his 157 00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:58,560 Speaker 1: knuckles were bruised. That was on the other guy, and 158 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 1: I think that's what you mention now. I was, you know, 159 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:06,959 Speaker 1: probably talked about that, and I'm frankly pleased that you're 160 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:09,480 Speaker 1: still on the air being critical of Jordan. Um. You 161 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:14,600 Speaker 1: know there's a thought police about that these days. Yeah. 162 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 1: I was probably pretty naive about it, being a reporter, 163 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:22,640 Speaker 1: having been an investigative reporter over the years, I figured, well, 164 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:25,160 Speaker 1: if I just write what's true, you know, what's the 165 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:30,480 Speaker 1: problem with that? And so it was. It was an 166 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 1: incredible you know, it was over thirty years ago. And 167 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:36,560 Speaker 1: you know, one thing I was kind of pleased about 168 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 1: and pleased about a lot of things, you know, with 169 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:41,840 Speaker 1: the Last Dance documentary, but one is that Michael sort 170 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:44,320 Speaker 1: of cop to all this finally took thirty years, but 171 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 1: he said, yeah, yeah, I could be a jerk, but 172 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 1: you know what a reason for it. And so back 173 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:51,280 Speaker 1: then it was saying, yeah, you know, the guy's tough 174 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:54,320 Speaker 1: to live with and people because of as you refer 175 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:59,719 Speaker 1: to those commercials, he was really i mean marketed as 176 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 1: kind of you know, the cliche all American kai. I 177 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:07,280 Speaker 1: remember one of the the Coca Cola sponsors. He he 178 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:10,360 Speaker 1: like leaped up into a treehouse to deliver the Coca 179 00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:13,319 Speaker 1: Cola and he I mean, and they made a point 180 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:15,880 Speaker 1: of this. They were doing, you know, Chevrolet apple Pie. 181 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:20,359 Speaker 1: They were doing those controversials to make it as American 182 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:23,719 Speaker 1: as you know, patriotic and could be. And then so 183 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:25,960 Speaker 1: you know, I sort of write a book about behind 184 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:28,520 Speaker 1: the scenes in basketball. He said, well, this is not 185 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:30,640 Speaker 1: Michael Jordan. I saw him in the commercials. He's nothing 186 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:35,319 Speaker 1: like that, right. You know. It's not that I'll defend him, 187 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 1: but I was talking about this with somebody the other day. 188 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 1: A lot of us resent or regret what we did 189 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 1: in our twenties, but we did it for a reason. 190 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:46,520 Speaker 1: We were immature. I mean, I grew up divorced kid 191 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:49,800 Speaker 1: on my own, not a lot of money in the family, 192 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:53,440 Speaker 1: and I was a pretty relentless workaholic in my twenties 193 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 1: and that's what I thought I needed and was mature 194 00:11:56,840 --> 00:11:59,280 Speaker 1: enough to handle it that time. And I look at 195 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 1: Michael and I said, people say, oh, he was rough 196 00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 1: on teammates, but the Pistons were tackling him. The Celtics 197 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:07,200 Speaker 1: were doing about the same. The East was loaded and 198 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:10,920 Speaker 1: physical and it was all allowed by the league, and 199 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:14,600 Speaker 1: I say to myself, relentless was the only way for 200 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 1: Michael to get through it. He was being attacked defensively, 201 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:20,800 Speaker 1: and could I argue that we do things out throughout 202 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:22,480 Speaker 1: the course of our life because it gets us to 203 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:27,840 Speaker 1: a better place. And the East was bullyball, Nicks, Celtics, Pistons, 204 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 1: and Michael was the target for almost all of it. 205 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 1: And he was just he was building up a medal 206 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:41,400 Speaker 1: and a toughness in that Chicago bull team. That was necessary. 207 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 1: I mean, that's exactly right, because you know what gets 208 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:48,160 Speaker 1: overlooked because it Michael Jordan came into the NBA out 209 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 1: of the eighty four Olympics game winning shot in North Carolina. 210 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 1: You know, with such fanfare to dunking in the Sports 211 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:59,400 Speaker 1: Illustrated covers and all that. The notion was, well, he's 212 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 1: gone to see right away. But at the same time, simultaneously, 213 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:05,960 Speaker 1: what Jerry Krous is doing with the Bulls is it's 214 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 1: rebuilding basically. You know, it has Jordan out front, but 215 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:12,720 Speaker 1: he's basically they had a lot of high draft picks, 216 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:16,280 Speaker 1: so decent players on Land to Woolrich and Sydney Green 217 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:19,079 Speaker 1: and players who could have developed or did develop in 218 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 1: other places, and he traded all of them off essentially 219 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:26,080 Speaker 1: for draft picks. Draft picks. You know, they got Pipping 220 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:29,320 Speaker 1: and they got hors Grant and he was sort of 221 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:33,840 Speaker 1: it wasn't called that then, you know, because teams didn't 222 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 1: really dump to the draft back then because they have 223 00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:40,080 Speaker 1: infectly needed the tendance. And really Jordan should have been 224 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:42,480 Speaker 1: with the Pacers. One of the great overlooked stories is 225 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:45,800 Speaker 1: the reason Portland had the Pick was the Pacers had 226 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:49,480 Speaker 1: lost James Edwards and for attendance needed a center, so 227 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:52,280 Speaker 1: they traded to Pick to Portland, and that's how Portland 228 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 1: ended up. You know, I'm using for Sambooie and all. 229 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:57,839 Speaker 1: But anyway, so Jordan comes in and the notion as well, 230 00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:00,480 Speaker 1: he's his great figure. He's got to compete again Bird 231 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:05,480 Speaker 1: Magic Isaiah and they've got Bill Teems and he's looking around, 232 00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:08,839 Speaker 1: but when his roster and goes, well, you know, I've 233 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:10,920 Speaker 1: got I don't what have I got here? I got 234 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:14,680 Speaker 1: Kyle Macy and I he's you know, and so you 235 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 1: know that was sort of a joke about. You know, 236 00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:20,040 Speaker 1: they said, well Jordan couldn't make guys better, and he 237 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:22,400 Speaker 1: used to say well, yeah, if I had James Worthy 238 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 1: and Kareem I could make him better. You know, I 239 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:27,280 Speaker 1: got Brown and said, they all three, I can't make 240 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:35,080 Speaker 1: them better. Um the MJ documentary, I thought, I remember 241 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:38,920 Speaker 1: when they made um the movie Wall Street about Gordon 242 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:43,320 Speaker 1: Gecko and Michael Douglas and Oliver Stone said, I didn't 243 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 1: try to glamorize him and make him popular, but everybody, 244 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:51,280 Speaker 1: every stockbroker wanted to be Gordon Gecko, and the faults 245 00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 1: of Gecko became sort of romanticized. And Sam, when I 246 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:59,160 Speaker 1: watched the MJ documentary, Now, obviously MJ had some say it, 247 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:03,520 Speaker 1: but even Warts and uh, you know, Will Purdue saying 248 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 1: things about it. Yeah, I found it. Maybe it's because 249 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:10,240 Speaker 1: the league is, you know, it's it's more of a 250 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:13,240 Speaker 1: three point shooting league. It's more skilled, but more finesse. 251 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 1: I found it incredibly likable. I'm like, I missed the layering, 252 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 1: I missed the toughness. I missed I missed guys not 253 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 1: all being best friends. I was. I fell into it, Sam, 254 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:27,960 Speaker 1: I I that documentary. I made me like Michael Moore. 255 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:31,680 Speaker 1: What was your takeaway on it? Well, A couple of 256 00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:35,400 Speaker 1: takes What the one takeaway? That I like, and it's 257 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:37,640 Speaker 1: sort of one of the things I was criticized was 258 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 1: his Hall of Fame speech where he pointed, you know, 259 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 1: the guy who beat him, you know, got on them, 260 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 1: you know, got on the varsity ahead of him. And 261 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:48,640 Speaker 1: he brought in different guys over the years that he 262 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 1: you know, he had these um challenges by and people said, well, 263 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:55,680 Speaker 1: this is this is horrible. At the Call of Fame 264 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:58,720 Speaker 1: he was sort of laming guys for this time, and no, 265 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:01,479 Speaker 1: this is this is great because he showed you exactly 266 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:05,560 Speaker 1: who he is and who he's always been. And you 267 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 1: know that that's the attraction of it, you know what 268 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 1: you said the Jordan Rules when I wrote it, and 269 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:14,920 Speaker 1: one of the reasons why I was surprised is because 270 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:19,800 Speaker 1: I saw it as as a sympathetic portrait, you know, 271 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:23,840 Speaker 1: if you you know, and I know, you know, our 272 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 1: version of Twitter back then was headlines and things taken 273 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 1: out of you know, contacts or whatever. What people would 274 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 1: complain it to us about. You took it out of context, 275 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 1: the headline didn't represent the story and all. And so 276 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:37,760 Speaker 1: there was a lot of that with the Jordan Rules, 277 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 1: you know, just like now, people didn't always read back 278 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 1: then either. Uh, when I depicted you know my depiction 279 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:46,720 Speaker 1: because I'd like Jordan, I've been around them a long time. 280 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 1: I really appreciated his competitiveness and his zeal and you know, 281 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 1: his willingness to try to pull this group along, you know, 282 00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 1: kind of with him, uh, and what he went through 283 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 1: how to pistons atacked him, you know. But not only that, 284 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:06,439 Speaker 1: you know, I remember the one year at the MVP boat. Uh. 285 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:09,639 Speaker 1: You know, Magic was very close with Isaiah. We were 286 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:12,239 Speaker 1: sitting in a locker room and it came down, Uh, 287 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:15,199 Speaker 1: Magic had won the MVP and all that reported, and 288 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:18,439 Speaker 1: he was very gracious and for the book, we had 289 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:20,240 Speaker 1: a good relations I'm sitting with him in the locker 290 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:22,880 Speaker 1: room and it happened to be in Detroit and every 291 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 1: all reporters when he turns to me and he goes 292 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 1: anybody but that guy, meaning Magic, meaning they held up 293 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:31,440 Speaker 1: Magic all the time and saying he's the guy who 294 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:34,639 Speaker 1: made everybody better, not me. Yeah, and so that you 295 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:37,120 Speaker 1: know that sort of saying. So I sort of viewed 296 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 1: it sympathetically, but you know the notion of the fights 297 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:44,960 Speaker 1: and you know, the taking Harss grand dinner, and you know, 298 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:47,679 Speaker 1: you don't deserve to eat because you played there. You 299 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:52,119 Speaker 1: know it sort of looked both ways. Um. Sam Smith 300 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:56,040 Speaker 1: joining us writer for the Bulls dot Com. Um it 301 00:17:56,280 --> 00:18:00,080 Speaker 1: is um. I one of the things that is a 302 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:04,080 Speaker 1: active about Michael. I couldn't watch a ten part Brady 303 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:08,719 Speaker 1: or Lebron documentary, and that social media has shown me 304 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:12,000 Speaker 1: all I ever need to see about any player, what 305 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:15,960 Speaker 1: they eat, their family. I get now, their opinions on vaccines, 306 00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:20,239 Speaker 1: their political opinions. You know Michael. As we peel the 307 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:23,800 Speaker 1: layers back on Michael and the Air movie, I didn't 308 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:26,439 Speaker 1: know that much about him because we didn't know that 309 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:31,160 Speaker 1: much about anybody, and that I think what makes Michael 310 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:34,960 Speaker 1: appealing to me. The journey for basketball Sam was not 311 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:37,720 Speaker 1: as grooved as it is today through Au It's just 312 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:41,360 Speaker 1: not it's just groove. Now they're all friends, nobody's battling 313 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:43,399 Speaker 1: for a piece of the pie. Otto porter can make 314 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:46,639 Speaker 1: two hundred million dollars. It's a different world. And I 315 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:50,440 Speaker 1: do think the struggle, although Michael's struggle is less than others. Hell, 316 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 1: the Jerry Kraus stuff, it is fascinating. I'm watching the 317 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:57,679 Speaker 1: Sonny of Acaro stuff, and you know the toughness of 318 00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 1: his mother. There's parts of the privacy of Michael. You 319 00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:08,000 Speaker 1: were on an inner circle for a long time, but 320 00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:12,199 Speaker 1: I view him now it's a bit of a private figure. 321 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:14,720 Speaker 1: How would you describe that, even as an owner of 322 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 1: the Bobcats, he never really talked much, right, And actually 323 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:22,560 Speaker 1: that was what was great about the documentary The Last Stance, 324 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 1: because it really was the first time he sat down 325 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 1: and showed you who he was kind of relaxed. Didn't 326 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:33,679 Speaker 1: kind of do it through a commercial because you know, 327 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:37,160 Speaker 1: he was always he always felt it wasn't so much 328 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 1: he was wanted to promote himself, but he felt an obligation. 329 00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:45,240 Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, he really had a good upbringing. 330 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:48,680 Speaker 1: And I haven't I didn't see the Sneaker movie yet, 331 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 1: but his mother, I know, had a huge part. He 332 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:54,800 Speaker 1: was very close with his father. They were really best 333 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:59,080 Speaker 1: friends more than father's son, you know, and at loss 334 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:03,119 Speaker 1: was tremendous, But he always felt as a responsibility and 335 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 1: obligation to his sponsors. So to remember him talking about 336 00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:10,360 Speaker 1: that to act in a certain way as a result 337 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:15,639 Speaker 1: of that, and so you know, he finally now he 338 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:19,639 Speaker 1: saw over the years and I credited him for that. 339 00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:22,159 Speaker 1: I actually I remember he wasn't selling himself. I remember 340 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:26,119 Speaker 1: one time, and he'd become tremendously popular, and he was 341 00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:31,600 Speaker 1: popular all over the world. I mean the I remember 342 00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:37,000 Speaker 1: the North North Korean the dad who who who gone, 343 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:41,040 Speaker 1: had a crazy sons there, but they were sending for 344 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:45,520 Speaker 1: bulls memorabilia back then from North Korea. Um, you know. 345 00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:49,439 Speaker 1: And and when David Stern went to China, uh, he 346 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:52,399 Speaker 1: always he always talked about you know, China didn't know 347 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:55,000 Speaker 1: anything about the NBA. They hadn't heard of anybody. But 348 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:57,720 Speaker 1: they had asked him about the red oxen and the 349 00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:01,359 Speaker 1: bull that's all they knew, you know. And so but 350 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:03,879 Speaker 1: as a result, you know, he understood that. But at 351 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:06,680 Speaker 1: the same time, and we see why he's made fortune, 352 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:11,880 Speaker 1: billionaire whatever. I remember a Japanese company had contacted him 353 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:13,760 Speaker 1: and said they would pay him a million dollars for 354 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:16,439 Speaker 1: an appearance, and he's and he and this was like 355 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:19,680 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty eight, eighty nine, something like that, and he said, 356 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:21,480 Speaker 1: I'm not just going to sell myself like that. I'm 357 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:24,359 Speaker 1: not going to do that because so so you know 358 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 1: this sort of uh, I'm not surprised that he's he's 359 00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:31,879 Speaker 1: he's that way now, and that's why the documentary was 360 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:34,840 Speaker 1: great because you're not going to see him otherwise, he's 361 00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:37,639 Speaker 1: not going to be around he you know, the NBA 362 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:43,600 Speaker 1: has brought out everybody, Bill Russell and Oscar robertson All 363 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:46,720 Speaker 1: Star Games and finals and they named the awards. He's 364 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:49,159 Speaker 1: the one who never shows up anywhere. You know, you 365 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 1: never see him anywhere. He's at all these All Star games, 366 00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:56,199 Speaker 1: you know, for Nike, but you've never seen him in public. 367 00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 1: And you know, I wish he would a little more, 368 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:04,919 Speaker 1: you know. He he doesn't want to sell himself and 369 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:08,680 Speaker 1: cheap in it really and it's really even smart. Yeah, 370 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:12,520 Speaker 1: I mean privacy and not knowing everything about you. I 371 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:15,560 Speaker 1: remember Jack Nicholson, the Great Owner, saying he wouldn't go 372 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:19,800 Speaker 1: on these shows when he was promoting a movie and 373 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:22,160 Speaker 1: He's like, why would I give me away for free? 374 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:26,640 Speaker 1: I want that theater experience to be really special. And 375 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:28,800 Speaker 1: I think about that all the time. I you know, 376 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:33,159 Speaker 1: I see everybody putting their meals and their vacations on Instagram, 377 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:34,959 Speaker 1: and I think, you know, it's okay to have some 378 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:38,040 Speaker 1: private stuff in your life. I don't need to market 379 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 1: my every time I go walk on the beach in Florida. 380 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:47,359 Speaker 1: The ownership in Charlotte, Sam I've said this, and it 381 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:50,480 Speaker 1: may be unfair that Michael was Ohays. First of all, 382 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:55,840 Speaker 1: he was a very good decision maker, David Falk, Phil Knight, 383 00:22:56,240 --> 00:23:00,960 Speaker 1: Phil Jackson. He tended to have excellent dgment and be 384 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:04,400 Speaker 1: pretty picky on the people that he would choose to 385 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:06,919 Speaker 1: guide his journey. So he had and by the way, 386 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:09,600 Speaker 1: I'm watching Lamar Jackson. Now he has his mom as 387 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:11,480 Speaker 1: an agent. Now he got an agent to day that's 388 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:15,240 Speaker 1: not registered. Some guys don't make great decisions Michael made 389 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:19,720 Speaker 1: and Lebron's done this. Michael made very solid decisions Sonny 390 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:22,480 Speaker 1: Vacaro on the people that pitched him and he listened to. 391 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:26,960 Speaker 1: I didn't expect the ownership with Charlotte to be great 392 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:29,639 Speaker 1: because I always thought Michael was great at elevating Michael. 393 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:32,119 Speaker 1: But to be an executive, a coach, or an owner, 394 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:35,919 Speaker 1: it's a lot of giving. It is, to some degree 395 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:41,679 Speaker 1: elevating others. Is it unfair characteristic to say Michael was 396 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:44,399 Speaker 1: better at elevating Michael, his brand and his net worth 397 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 1: than sometimes elevating those around him. He didn't have the 398 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:51,879 Speaker 1: patience for it. I don't know about that that's a 399 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:55,639 Speaker 1: hard one. First of all, you know, ownership management is 400 00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:58,520 Speaker 1: an awful lot of luck. You know, the Bulls lucked 401 00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:02,399 Speaker 1: in the Jordan in eighty. Had they not, they probably 402 00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:04,800 Speaker 1: they wouldn't have had any titles they would have had 403 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:07,200 Speaker 1: you know, twenty five fifty years, the Phoenix Suns have 404 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:11,000 Speaker 1: never won a title despite whatever, and so you know, 405 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:13,879 Speaker 1: you got to get lucky. Charlotte has never gotten lucky. 406 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:18,840 Speaker 1: I remember, uh, you know, people like to think, fans, media, whatever, 407 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:23,040 Speaker 1: that just because you've succeeded in something that you'll succeed uh, 408 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:26,320 Speaker 1: you know, because of what you did in your specialty, 409 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:29,400 Speaker 1: you know. And it's sort of like all these coaches 410 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:34,000 Speaker 1: who sort of stood next to uh Bill Parcels. Uh, 411 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:37,919 Speaker 1: you know, just because you're you're you're around somebody who's successful, 412 00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:41,399 Speaker 1: doesn't mean you're going to be successful. And so you know, 413 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:44,840 Speaker 1: it's difficult to sort of pick guys. Michael, you know, 414 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:48,000 Speaker 1: you know, had difficulty you know, who exactly could he 415 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:53,280 Speaker 1: trust in our situations? And so I remember when the Bulls, 416 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:56,000 Speaker 1: you know, ninety eight they broke up, and you know 417 00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:58,679 Speaker 1: I would in the last dance, and so the fans 418 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:00,840 Speaker 1: in the media, the notion was, well, let Michael run 419 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,280 Speaker 1: the team. You know, he's a winner, you know. And 420 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:06,879 Speaker 1: so we don't hear that much anymore anymore since the 421 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:10,159 Speaker 1: Charlotte's situation. And I don't think it's a case of 422 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:15,720 Speaker 1: Michael being concerned about celebrating himself. I don't think that 423 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 1: what he was about. It's just, you know, you don't 424 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:22,120 Speaker 1: go to school for management of a sports team. There's 425 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:25,080 Speaker 1: no there's no degree, you know, there's no tests like 426 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:28,120 Speaker 1: to be a CPA or a lawyer or something like that. 427 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:31,119 Speaker 1: So you know, who does these things? How do you 428 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:34,120 Speaker 1: do it? Um? You know, it's it's a lot of luck, 429 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,040 Speaker 1: and he just hasn't gotten lucky. I mean that sort 430 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:41,879 Speaker 1: of a simplified version of it. Um, he's been in 431 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:44,520 Speaker 1: the lottery. You know, you get your bad you don't 432 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 1: get Lebron, you get you know, you get you get 433 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:50,919 Speaker 1: the second guy makes tremendous differences. And so you know, 434 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:53,199 Speaker 1: now now I see he's gonna cash out, you know, 435 00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:55,480 Speaker 1: in the league one thing him in. David Stern wanted 436 00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:58,879 Speaker 1: him in and basically almost gave him that franchise, you know, 437 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,600 Speaker 1: to have him in the game. Basically, I think he 438 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:04,800 Speaker 1: just paid off the debts, and so one thing Michael 439 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:08,919 Speaker 1: has always done. He used to joke about OPM, you know, 440 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:12,000 Speaker 1: the way to operate a businesses with other people's money. 441 00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:14,880 Speaker 1: So he was always he was always bright about that, 442 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:19,040 Speaker 1: and he always always understood equity and he always understood value. 443 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:21,840 Speaker 1: And he's tried, but you can see in the last 444 00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:25,560 Speaker 1: couple of years he's lost the enthusiasm for it just 445 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:29,679 Speaker 1: because it's so hard. The irony is now, you know, 446 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,360 Speaker 1: you know, on the ownership the governors whatever they call themselves. 447 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:37,000 Speaker 1: Now Michael got was put in charge of the labor 448 00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:41,800 Speaker 1: committee of the owners and he was appalled at these 449 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:45,480 Speaker 1: salaries that they started daying, you know, because you know 450 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:48,159 Speaker 1: he made at the time when he made the thirty million, 451 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:51,160 Speaker 1: it was you know, ten million more. Patrickeing I think 452 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 1: made eighteen or nineteen, and the next highest were like 453 00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:56,040 Speaker 1: ten or twelve, you know, so he's making double or 454 00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:58,760 Speaker 1: triple whatever anyone is, and you know, now it's sort 455 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:01,640 Speaker 1: of you know, on the bottom side of next steeling. 456 00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:04,320 Speaker 1: He was just sort of appalled that the salaries that 457 00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:09,679 Speaker 1: were becoming right of that. But I don't think it 458 00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:13,080 Speaker 1: was an ego thing as much as it's really a 459 00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:18,040 Speaker 1: hard thing to do. The tournament's heating up. No better 460 00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:20,440 Speaker 1: place to get in on the action than fan duel, 461 00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:24,719 Speaker 1: America's number one sportsbook. Okay, right now, download Fandel. Use 462 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:27,600 Speaker 1: the promo code Collins c O l I N up 463 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:31,440 Speaker 1: to one thousand dollars back in bonus bets if your 464 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:34,520 Speaker 1: first bet doesn't win. The promo code is always Colin. 465 00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:39,040 Speaker 1: FanDuel has tons of betting options. I like the same game, parlay, 466 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:43,160 Speaker 1: bet a little, win a lot. Fandel's app is safe, secure, 467 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,959 Speaker 1: easy to use, and you get paid your winnings really fast. 468 00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:50,000 Speaker 1: Just go to FanDuel dot com sign up today, claim 469 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,280 Speaker 1: your no sweat first bet. Then you can wager on 470 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:55,080 Speaker 1: everything from the money line to point spreads to which 471 00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:58,920 Speaker 1: team will be cutting down the net. Fandel's app is safe, secure, 472 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:03,280 Speaker 1: easy to use, and you get paid your winnings really fast. 473 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:06,520 Speaker 1: The no sweat first bet up to a thousand bucks 474 00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:11,119 Speaker 1: promo code Colin. Make every moment more this season with 475 00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:15,520 Speaker 1: FanDuel twenty one plus in select states. FanDuel's offering online 476 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:19,119 Speaker 1: sports wagering in Kansas under an agreement with Kansas dar 477 00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:23,240 Speaker 1: Casino LLLC. Gambling Problem Call one eight hundred Gambler, or 478 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:29,960 Speaker 1: visit FanDuel dot com, slash RG Colorado, Iowa, Michigan, New Jersey, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Tennessee, 479 00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:33,600 Speaker 1: Virginia one eight hundred, next step or text next step 480 00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,760 Speaker 1: to five three three four two Arizona one eight at 481 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:40,840 Speaker 1: eight seventy nine, seven seven seven seven, or visit CCPG 482 00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:43,560 Speaker 1: dot org, slash chat Connecticut one eight hundred and nine 483 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,040 Speaker 1: with it Indiana one eight hundred five to two forty 484 00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:49,080 Speaker 1: seven hundred. Visit KAS gambling heelp dot com Kansas one 485 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:52,719 Speaker 1: eight seven seven seven seven oh Stop Louisiana called one 486 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:54,840 Speaker 1: eight hundred and three two seven fifty fifty, or visit 487 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:59,760 Speaker 1: WWWMA underscore helpline dot org slash problem gambling. Visit w 488 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:03,520 Speaker 1: viaw dot MD gambling help dot org Maryland one eight 489 00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:05,800 Speaker 1: seven seven eight Hope New York or text Hope New 490 00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:08,160 Speaker 1: York four six seven three six nine New York one 491 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:10,560 Speaker 1: eight hundred five to two forty seven hundred Wyoming, or 492 00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:16,360 Speaker 1: visit www dot one eight gambler dot net West Virginia. 493 00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:26,640 Speaker 1: When you look back at covering Michael, did you instantly know? 494 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:30,920 Speaker 1: Because the first couple of years I can remember Orlando Woolridge. 495 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:33,880 Speaker 1: If I recalled Quentin daily, it was guys that needed 496 00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:37,720 Speaker 1: the ball, and Michael, you know, was not going to 497 00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:40,640 Speaker 1: suffer those guys gladly like he wanted the ball and 498 00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:43,320 Speaker 1: he was better, and he was I imagine at practice 499 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:45,800 Speaker 1: was letting them know on a daily basis he was better. 500 00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:50,400 Speaker 1: But when did you know because he did an average 501 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,719 Speaker 1: a ton of points in college. When did you have 502 00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:56,040 Speaker 1: this sense and talk to other people or maybe you 503 00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:59,320 Speaker 1: just it was your personal insight that you thought, boy, 504 00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:03,200 Speaker 1: this is different. This may be the both gifted basketball 505 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:06,160 Speaker 1: player I've ever seen. I mean, you're in my generation. Sam. 506 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:08,880 Speaker 1: I I grew up and there I saw the old 507 00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:15,400 Speaker 1: Wilt and the young Kareem. Michael didn't Doctor Jay, but 508 00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:19,440 Speaker 1: Doctor j didn't have the mid range, dependable game. He 509 00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:25,440 Speaker 1: was spectacular, but he wasn't as relentless nightly every possession 510 00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:28,240 Speaker 1: like Michael. Was. There a moment that kind of crystallized 511 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:30,640 Speaker 1: it for you when you really felt going back sitting 512 00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:33,880 Speaker 1: on that press table and you thought, boy, this may 513 00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:38,560 Speaker 1: be the greatest basketball player we're ever going to see. Well, 514 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:39,640 Speaker 1: you know, I don't know if we went to the 515 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:43,920 Speaker 1: greatest ever early, but we went pretty spectacular early. You 516 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:45,360 Speaker 1: know the old joke, of course, was the only one 517 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:47,200 Speaker 1: who could hold him under twenty points a game with 518 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:51,840 Speaker 1: Dean Smith. So this is the first practice, and Rod 519 00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:54,360 Speaker 1: Forne is the both GM had been the GM for 520 00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:57,560 Speaker 1: like seven or eight years, had lottery picks almost every year, 521 00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:01,479 Speaker 1: and the team has went in tw twenty eight games. 522 00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,280 Speaker 1: And so Jordan is the first practice. Kevin Lockery's the coach, 523 00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:09,360 Speaker 1: and this is the first practice of Jordan's first season. 524 00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:12,240 Speaker 1: And Bill Blair, as I remember, as the assistant then 525 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:16,880 Speaker 1: and Rod Missus, Rob can't go to the first practice 526 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:20,040 Speaker 1: to something business then came up, and so Rod miss 527 00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:23,320 Speaker 1: is the first practice. Bill Blair calls them. At the 528 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:26,200 Speaker 1: end of the first practice, Rod's telling me this story, 529 00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:30,560 Speaker 1: and Bill Blair says, he finally didn't screw up a draft. 530 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:35,000 Speaker 1: He said, we have never seen anything like this guy. 531 00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:39,040 Speaker 1: He came in with all the and you mentioned Woolwich 532 00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:41,280 Speaker 1: was a top ten pick, went in Daily's the top 533 00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:46,120 Speaker 1: ten picks, Inney Green, Ronnie Lester, all top ten picks, 534 00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:50,080 Speaker 1: and he just blew out everybody. The first couple of practices, 535 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:53,520 Speaker 1: he's blowing by everybody. He's dunking on everybody. You know 536 00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:56,080 Speaker 1: as that famous story when he came in as a 537 00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:59,440 Speaker 1: freshman at North Carolina and the first thing he did 538 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:02,480 Speaker 1: he went to the board and he started writing the 539 00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:07,160 Speaker 1: Times listing the names of Worthy Perkins, all these all Americans, 540 00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:10,760 Speaker 1: saying how many times he dunked on them. So that's 541 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:13,200 Speaker 1: the way he started in North Carolina, and that's the 542 00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:14,920 Speaker 1: way he came into the Bulls. Okay. So I hear 543 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:17,600 Speaker 1: these stories that coming out of training camp and we 544 00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:20,640 Speaker 1: go see him and it's still training camp and walks 545 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:23,800 Speaker 1: into the season. I think third game in he hits 546 00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:28,440 Speaker 1: a winner in Milwaukee, like six games in forty nine 547 00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:31,040 Speaker 1: points against I think, what's Portland or something? You know, 548 00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:34,320 Speaker 1: I we're bringing in Portland. Media is all saying we 549 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:37,160 Speaker 1: got a center. This guy's not specially got Clyde Drexler. 550 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:41,040 Speaker 1: And I remember the Chicago guys watch this. Where do 551 00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:45,840 Speaker 1: you see this? So we didn't exactly know, say, Okay, 552 00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:47,680 Speaker 1: this is guy's going to be you know better an 553 00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:51,480 Speaker 1: Oscar and you know or bird or magic or will 554 00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:55,000 Speaker 1: or whatever. But this was different. This was different than 555 00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:58,959 Speaker 1: than anything we've seem because of the combination you know, 556 00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:03,640 Speaker 1: of the athletics is the drive and the incredible competitiveness 557 00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:06,720 Speaker 1: and this will to win win everything, you know, which 558 00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:10,560 Speaker 1: sort of evolved and we saw more from year to year. Uh, 559 00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:14,360 Speaker 1: you know, there's always this debate the greatest and who's 560 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,360 Speaker 1: the great you know, in its arbitrary Lebron's got the 561 00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:21,040 Speaker 1: most points. Now, you know, in my year are going back. 562 00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:23,960 Speaker 1: You know, the two greatest things I remember back basketball 563 00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:26,320 Speaker 1: is Will coming to the NBA and Kareem coming to 564 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:30,000 Speaker 1: the NBA. You know, went in basically everything out of college. 565 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:32,200 Speaker 1: And so they said, well, how can Jordan you know, 566 00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:36,400 Speaker 1: Bill Russell's got the most championships, Gareem and now Lebron's 567 00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:38,640 Speaker 1: got the most point How could this guy be the 568 00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:41,640 Speaker 1: greatest ever? And one thing I always point to with 569 00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:46,560 Speaker 1: me is that nobody in sports, and certainly in American sports, 570 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:50,280 Speaker 1: and I can't imagine worldwide sports has crossed over and 571 00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:54,640 Speaker 1: had the influence on society that he has because of 572 00:33:54,680 --> 00:34:01,320 Speaker 1: the basketball the shoes become fashioned. Likes to tell the story. 573 00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:04,760 Speaker 1: You know, he's the MVPs and Portland's Phil Knights there. 574 00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:06,560 Speaker 1: Phil Knight comes to him say, you know, we're gonna 575 00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:08,680 Speaker 1: put your name on sneakers. We're gonna do this whole 576 00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:12,799 Speaker 1: thing about you know, air bail or whatever he said, 577 00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,040 Speaker 1: who's gonna buy sneakers with my name on? What a 578 00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:19,800 Speaker 1: stupid idea that is, you know? And so baldness is okay, 579 00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:22,359 Speaker 1: Now I can I can start shaving my head men 580 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:28,040 Speaker 1: and wearing jewelry, you know, long short fashion, all all 581 00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:32,600 Speaker 1: these things that transcend the game attached to him. That's 582 00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:34,879 Speaker 1: what makes you the greatest. That's a Babe Ruth kind 583 00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:38,160 Speaker 1: of thing. That's an ali kind of thing where you 584 00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:40,839 Speaker 1: can't measure them only in the sport, but you can 585 00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:43,520 Speaker 1: measure their effect on the world and society. And and 586 00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:48,120 Speaker 1: his has been to me more than anybody that we've 587 00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:53,200 Speaker 1: ever experienced. Bulls dot com Sam Smith. Does Michael visit 588 00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:58,120 Speaker 1: Chicago a lot, golf tournaments, bulls games. His mother does 589 00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:02,919 Speaker 1: some charity work, fairly substantial charity work, I heard, But 590 00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:07,680 Speaker 1: does Michael ever visit Chicago now Never? As far as 591 00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:09,560 Speaker 1: I can tell, he has never been here. I think 592 00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:13,520 Speaker 1: his house it's still for sale up in Highland Park. 593 00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:17,080 Speaker 1: But he built this mansion kind of thing which is 594 00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:21,080 Speaker 1: well overvalued, and I mean not in a bad neighborhood, 595 00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:23,120 Speaker 1: but it's just near a highway's and it's been for 596 00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:26,239 Speaker 1: sale like ten twelve years or something. Nobody you know, 597 00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:28,360 Speaker 1: buy it's got twenty threes all over the gate and 598 00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:31,560 Speaker 1: stuff like that. But as far as I know, I've 599 00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:36,440 Speaker 1: never heard him being here. Wow. You know, it's interesting. 600 00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:43,920 Speaker 1: You know, passionate relationship with Chicago leaves very close relationship 601 00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:48,960 Speaker 1: with Barkley. It ends. It is an interesting personality. It's 602 00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:53,400 Speaker 1: not a tech, it's just who he is. I don't know, 603 00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:55,800 Speaker 1: how do you explain that though those are both unique. 604 00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:59,280 Speaker 1: You know, I don't know of another player. Maybe Brady 605 00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:01,600 Speaker 1: won't go back to New England. I don't know it. 606 00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:08,800 Speaker 1: I find it just an interesting personality behavioral personality elements. 607 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:13,520 Speaker 1: What do you make of that? Well, again, because of 608 00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:16,440 Speaker 1: the sort of the Howard Us sort of element to 609 00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:18,759 Speaker 1: him over the years that he wasn't going to make 610 00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:22,719 Speaker 1: himself public and you know, he's as like you know 611 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:27,319 Speaker 1: mentioned before, he doesn't want to be, uh, you know, 612 00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:30,720 Speaker 1: a public figure. He always used to talk way early, 613 00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:32,879 Speaker 1: way earlier, and actually he would tell us, he said, 614 00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:36,080 Speaker 1: you know, once I'm gone, you'll never see me again. 615 00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:38,440 Speaker 1: And you know, there was an element of that. I 616 00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:41,120 Speaker 1: remember him talking about that in the eighties that I'm 617 00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:43,000 Speaker 1: going to finish my career, and when I'm my career 618 00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:46,000 Speaker 1: is over, you will never see me. It's sort of 619 00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:48,239 Speaker 1: been true, but he always the other thing. He used 620 00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:50,640 Speaker 1: to say too, I'm never going to be a show pony. 621 00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:52,560 Speaker 1: And I think that's why it doesn't go at the 622 00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:55,799 Speaker 1: All Star Game or at least come out publicly. You 623 00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:58,520 Speaker 1: don't see him in public much, doesn't, you know, you know, 624 00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:01,399 Speaker 1: I mean, can you imagine the amount of anymore? I mean, 625 00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:04,960 Speaker 1: you know what rich people enough never seems enough. They're 626 00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:08,440 Speaker 1: always doing something. Can you imagine the amount of money 627 00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:11,359 Speaker 1: Michael Jordan could make in appearances or things other things 628 00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:14,879 Speaker 1: he did in public? Millions people who would pay just 629 00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:17,840 Speaker 1: you know, probably he's probably the most famous person in 630 00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:23,279 Speaker 1: the world, maybe the most most. He loved um, but 631 00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:25,560 Speaker 1: he's never you know, he doesn't take advantage of that, 632 00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:28,040 Speaker 1: and he never has any any And for whatever the 633 00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:31,480 Speaker 1: reason was. At a young age in his twenties, he 634 00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:34,200 Speaker 1: talked about that that this is something I'll never do, 635 00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:37,120 Speaker 1: That's something I'll never be a part of. I'm not 636 00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:40,840 Speaker 1: going to sell myself as as a commodity, as a product, 637 00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:43,440 Speaker 1: you know, I'm going to show what I can do 638 00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:47,840 Speaker 1: and then obviously, you know, he was secure with what 639 00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:50,040 Speaker 1: they was making. But you know, and I don't know 640 00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:53,360 Speaker 1: how they depicted it in that movie. Um, but you know, 641 00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:56,120 Speaker 1: he didn't he didn't go seek out the shoe contracts 642 00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:59,120 Speaker 1: and the Nike. He was very reluctant. And I remembered 643 00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:02,080 Speaker 1: early on his mother kind of drags him out there, 644 00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:07,920 Speaker 1: and that's what the movie said. Yeah. But also after 645 00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:10,680 Speaker 1: the first deal, it was like a three or four 646 00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:13,080 Speaker 1: or five year I don't know what the first contract was. 647 00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:14,960 Speaker 1: He didn't want to re up with Nike. I remember 648 00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:18,400 Speaker 1: Craig Hodges talked to him about maybe starting a local 649 00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:21,640 Speaker 1: brand or something. Nike had done something I'm sure that's 650 00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:24,080 Speaker 1: not in the movie that he was upset with and 651 00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:26,560 Speaker 1: he didn't want to go. He was thinking about going 652 00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:28,520 Speaker 1: with another company. I think he said he said, I 653 00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:32,680 Speaker 1: wored Converse or stottm in college. Maybe I'll go with them. So, 654 00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:36,759 Speaker 1: you know, he he was kind of it wasn't so 655 00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:38,759 Speaker 1: much he was saying, I'm Michael Jordan. I can do 656 00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:41,120 Speaker 1: what I want. Is that, you know, it's not my 657 00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:44,800 Speaker 1: life to sell myself as a sneaker salesman. Now he's obviously, 658 00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:48,279 Speaker 1: you know, turned it in but he's turned it. The 659 00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:50,840 Speaker 1: other thing that he's turned it into a quality product. 660 00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:54,800 Speaker 1: And I think that's what he's proud about, that things 661 00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:57,759 Speaker 1: associated with Michael about quality and then not cheap and 662 00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:02,040 Speaker 1: it's not a show pony just for the money. Sam Smith, 663 00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:06,080 Speaker 1: covering the NBA a long time, Milwaukee is the best 664 00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:08,440 Speaker 1: team I've seen this year. I think they have shotmakers, 665 00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:13,520 Speaker 1: three elite defenders with Drew Holliday, Lopez and Janis. I 666 00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:16,520 Speaker 1: just don't know situationally, if I like Boston as much 667 00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:19,360 Speaker 1: this year as last. I don't know about Wiggins or 668 00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:21,600 Speaker 1: k D. The West is wide open. I don't trust 669 00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:25,680 Speaker 1: Denver the best team you've seen this year live, Who 670 00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:30,000 Speaker 1: would it be? Yeah, I even though and the Bulls 671 00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:32,640 Speaker 1: have beat him two out of three Milwaukee, you know, 672 00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:34,839 Speaker 1: but I think one of them Yannis got hurt early 673 00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:38,360 Speaker 1: in one of the games and Chris Middleton wasn't playing. 674 00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:43,880 Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean the West is as even as 675 00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:47,479 Speaker 1: you know, unpowerful you say that, as it's ever been. 676 00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:50,120 Speaker 1: You know, there's no dominant player really in the West. 677 00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:53,719 Speaker 1: You know, with Lebron situation as health, and that's really 678 00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:57,640 Speaker 1: a change in the NBA that there's no great teams anymore. 679 00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:01,799 Speaker 1: There's no there's no super team put together. And so 680 00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:03,799 Speaker 1: I kind of agree with you with Boston. When I 681 00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:07,319 Speaker 1: watched Boston, it's all and I and I don't, you know, 682 00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:09,840 Speaker 1: nobody cares. You know, I don't like the way the 683 00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:13,239 Speaker 1: games played now with this proliferation of three pointers, and 684 00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:15,000 Speaker 1: you know, it's like to sort of get off my 685 00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:17,919 Speaker 1: lawn stuff. You know, who cares about what you say? 686 00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:21,440 Speaker 1: You know, but you watch Boston and Tatum and Brown 687 00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:23,759 Speaker 1: and they'll shoot like ten or twelve threes and they 688 00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:27,280 Speaker 1: miss them all. And instead of saying, well, you know, okay, 689 00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:29,840 Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not on maybe I'll go to the basket, 690 00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:34,319 Speaker 1: doesn't shoot ten more. So it just comes down to, 691 00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:36,279 Speaker 1: you know, they're gonna make him or not. You know, 692 00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:39,680 Speaker 1: I think the notion is they probably think we're out 693 00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:43,239 Speaker 1: of seven games. We could make enough threes to win. Yeah, 694 00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:48,879 Speaker 1: and so, um, you know, Philadelphia's flooded and both were 695 00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:51,800 Speaker 1: in the Philly got Philly twice this week. In Harden 696 00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:55,440 Speaker 1: is just kind of a shell of himself, and yeah, 697 00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:58,600 Speaker 1: you know he's not, you know, sort of Scottie Pippen 698 00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:01,760 Speaker 1: number two to the embat and beat is really carrying 699 00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:04,840 Speaker 1: that thing on his own. That's why I think MVP 700 00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:07,719 Speaker 1: would be legitimate, you know, much more legitimates for him 701 00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:12,120 Speaker 1: and deserving and you know one of those three. You know, 702 00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:15,920 Speaker 1: to me, Jannis probably is the best overall player, but 703 00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:18,320 Speaker 1: he's got really a lot of help. Drew Holiday in 704 00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:22,160 Speaker 1: Middleton and there's a lot there, and there's some depth. Yes, 705 00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:26,719 Speaker 1: Bobby Portish, they picked up you know, he hadn't even Jader, 706 00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:30,520 Speaker 1: They picked Crowder, but they also picked up Gordon Draggets 707 00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:33,080 Speaker 1: from the Bulls Bills. Let Tragis go. He went up there. 708 00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:35,719 Speaker 1: He hadn't played anything, but clearly to saving him just 709 00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:37,520 Speaker 1: for the playoff. A guy can walk in and make 710 00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:40,920 Speaker 1: a shot run a team. So to me, they seem 711 00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:44,919 Speaker 1: like the only really loaded team like Boston. I don't 712 00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:48,120 Speaker 1: like their depth. I don't think they got much depth. Um, 713 00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:50,480 Speaker 1: you know, Cleveland's just there so on the edge. The 714 00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:52,360 Speaker 1: rest of the East is just trying to fighting to 715 00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:55,000 Speaker 1: get in the playoffs, and the West, any one of 716 00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:57,839 Speaker 1: those first eight or nine teams can win, I don't 717 00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:02,080 Speaker 1: think any. I don't see any dominance any of those teams. Yeah, 718 00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:06,920 Speaker 1: Dallas and Sacramento don't play defense. Phoenix doesn't have a bench. 719 00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:11,719 Speaker 1: Warriors are absolutely missing wing and frontcourt scoring. It's all 720 00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:15,239 Speaker 1: guard scoring, and I just don't trust the team led 721 00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:19,120 Speaker 1: by Kawhi Leonard. I think he's a remarkable talent, but 722 00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:21,200 Speaker 1: I think he's a guy you can add to an 723 00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:23,600 Speaker 1: already baked culture. I don't think you can build your 724 00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:27,279 Speaker 1: culture around him. I think he's a tough teammate, you know, 725 00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:29,399 Speaker 1: shows up some nights at three forty five and says, 726 00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:32,080 Speaker 1: I'm not playing. I've been told, so I think it's 727 00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:34,680 Speaker 1: wide open. Sam, what a pleasure for me? Writer for 728 00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:37,520 Speaker 1: Bulls dot Com E folks. The nineteen ninety one New 729 00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:40,680 Speaker 1: York Times best settler of the Jordan Rules is a 730 00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:46,800 Speaker 1: terrific read. It's journalism at its highest form. And again, 731 00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:49,360 Speaker 1: it's just great talking to you on an annual basis. 732 00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:52,719 Speaker 1: I always get smarter and learn stuff, Sam. Thank you. Colin. Yeah, 733 00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:54,520 Speaker 1: I enjoy it, and maybe we can make it six 734 00:42:54,560 --> 00:43:14,719 Speaker 1: months next time the volume. Make sure to check out 735 00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:18,360 Speaker 1: the Draymond Green Show. I brought Draymond Green into the 736 00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:21,280 Speaker 1: volume because one of the more entertaining voices in sports. 737 00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:25,640 Speaker 1: Unique perspective understands behind the rope, also chops up with 738 00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:29,479 Speaker 1: guests like Gary Peyton, Zach Levine, Tracy McGrady. Make sure 739 00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:33,920 Speaker 1: download The Draymond Green Show wherever you get your podcasts, 740 00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:37,480 Speaker 1: only on the Volume Podcast Network