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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show.

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Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Noel. They called

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Speaker 1: me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer

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Speaker 1: Alexis code named Doc Holiday Jackson. Most importantly, you are you.

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Speaker 1: You are here, and that makes this stuff they don't

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Speaker 1: want you to know. This is our first listener mail

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Speaker 1: segment of one or the first we're recording in one,

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Speaker 1: and we have a cavalcade of strange stories and fascinating

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Speaker 1: feedback from the best part of the show, your fellow

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Speaker 1: listeners before or we begin. Guys, I know I told

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Speaker 1: you about this off air, but for years, and I

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Speaker 1: mean years, since I started at this job as an intern, uh,

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Speaker 1: how stuff works and I Heart Now have been kind

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Speaker 1: of in a low level prank war. Sometimes will come

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Speaker 1: in and things will just be a little weird. One

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Speaker 1: time we smuggled, uh. I think we used this example

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Speaker 1: on the show before, so it's okay to say it.

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Speaker 1: One time we smuggled a very large elvis impersonator in

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Speaker 1: to prank our boss. We did a ghost like remote

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Speaker 1: control operated whoopee cushion back in the day. And today

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Speaker 1: I snuck into the office to get some coffee and

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Speaker 1: I was drinking out of this cup or I was

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Speaker 1: about to when my paranoia paid off and I looked

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Speaker 1: at the bottom to see someone had popped. How would

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Speaker 1: you describe that was It looked like a six, maybe

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Speaker 1: a nine. Yeah, it depends on which way you hold it.

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Speaker 1: But it's like they did it with like the the

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Speaker 1: pointy end of a compass or something, you know. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: some stabby implements of some kind. Precise work. I gotta

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Speaker 1: give them props. Everyone listening, you have to know that

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Speaker 1: most of these things happened to Ben for some reason,

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Speaker 1: so that's not true. Everybody gets everybody gets it. NOL

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Speaker 1: got a weird uh got a weird stalkery parrot thing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we had these little like squishy ball things for stress

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Speaker 1: and they're shaped like the I Heart Radio parrot, which

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Speaker 1: is apparently our mascot, which I wasn't aware of. But

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Speaker 1: they're just littered all over the office and someone collected

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Speaker 1: a whole bunch of them and lined them up next

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Speaker 1: to each other and snipped off their little parrot faces

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Speaker 1: and lined those up in front of their little parrot bodies.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know if you guys know this about me,

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Speaker 1: but not a fan of birds, so it felt very threatening.

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Speaker 1: It was sort of like a horsehead in the bed

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Speaker 1: kind of situation. No, dude, they were whoever this was,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure they love you very much, and they were

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Speaker 1: trying to show you that the birds were neutralized. Like, uh,

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Speaker 1: they're teaching you to hunt sponge stress birds. But you

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Speaker 1: know you've found out who that was. Investigation was successful.

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Speaker 1: Uh yeah, but they like they denied it vehemently for

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Speaker 1: a time and then finally came clean and that had

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Speaker 1: a happy ending. So on the off chance any of

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Speaker 1: our co workers listen to the show, and on the

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Speaker 1: off chance whomever is responsible for this uh is listening

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Speaker 1: to this show, then all I have to say is nice,

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Speaker 1: one close call. You almost got me. But you're talking

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Speaker 1: about one of the most paranoid people in our network.

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Speaker 1: I did, Matt, I want to be honest, I did

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Speaker 1: suspect you at first, like from the jump. Well, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I generally I'm not the kind of person that would

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Speaker 1: do that, So you know. Yeah, Okay, that's you're generally

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Speaker 1: not but what about specifically we Okay, we digress, We digressed.

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Speaker 1: But it was heartwarming, you know, because I think a

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Speaker 1: lot of us had a tough time over the holidays,

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Speaker 1: not being able to be with the people that we

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Speaker 1: usually see towards the end of the year. Uh. We

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Speaker 1: we typically get together at least once as a group

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Speaker 1: at our local dive bar or someplace and we just

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Speaker 1: grab a couple of drinks and wax on about the

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Speaker 1: world in the state of things. Uh So, yeah, this

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Speaker 1: these pranks were nice, but I'm I'm gonna find who

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Speaker 1: it was. I have a strong suspicion based on an

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Speaker 1: off air lead. I wish you're the best of luck.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you. And likewise, uh So, today we

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Speaker 1: want to share some amazing stories from your fellow listeners.

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Speaker 1: We have some stuff at the very forefront of medicine,

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Speaker 1: or depending on who you ask, very ancient medicinal practices.

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Speaker 1: We have some stuff about uh, very big brother level surveillance. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And then we have a story that may not be

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Speaker 1: I'm just gonna be honest with you, folks, may not

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Speaker 1: be a suitable for all listeners. Uh. Taking place in

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Speaker 1: the United Nations. So where do you think we go? First? Guys?

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Speaker 1: What do you think? Mmmm? Why don't we begin at

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Speaker 1: all the stuff that we do on the internet and

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Speaker 1: who's been looking at it since the turn of the millennium,

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Speaker 1: Because you know, we are two decades now in we're

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Speaker 1: in the third decade already. How weird is that? Uh,

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Speaker 1: we're in the third decade of the two thousand's. Okay,

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Speaker 1: that's really quickly though, So we're not in the oughts anymore? Right?

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Speaker 1: Or wait? No, what are we in now? What do

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Speaker 1: we call it the teens? Maybe? Don't I don't think

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Speaker 1: it's been coined yet. No, wait, we can't call it

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Speaker 1: the teens because that was like it's it's we're in

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Speaker 1: the twenties. This is the new twenties. Get me a

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Speaker 1: flapper dress and feed me some moonshine. Looking at the

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Speaker 1: parallels pandemic and the rory nineteen twenties. Uh, let's say

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Speaker 1: you have you have about eight or nine years to

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Speaker 1: prepare for whatever version of the thirties. Are students of history,

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Speaker 1: you will you will doubtlessly appreciate that gloom and doom. Uh,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, shout out to human tragedy and its

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Speaker 1: cyclical nature. Yeah, and in that spirit, let's look back

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Speaker 1: at the turn of the millennium and just get a

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Speaker 1: quick story from someone who called in. Could that be okay? Um? So, uh,

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Speaker 1: my brother was kind of a death deed sort of

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Speaker 1: by the CIA in the early two thousands because he

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Speaker 1: was too good at computers and so he was getting

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Speaker 1: international recognition and picked him up face, Hey, you have

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Speaker 1: to come with us, otherwise we're gonna put you into

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Speaker 1: tention because he was being national security risk and they

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Speaker 1: put him into a fold working lit on the t

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Speaker 1: i A program Total Information Earnest. I'm curious asked to

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Speaker 1: whether or not you guys has done episode on t

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Speaker 1: i A before and what happened to ask her. It

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Speaker 1: was supposedly disbanded by Congress. The entire time my brother

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Speaker 1: was working for at CIA, he could not talk to anyone,

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Speaker 1: including family or his wife for his children about what

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Speaker 1: he was doing. And then when Congress expanded that he

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Speaker 1: was able to talk to people. I'm wondering what happened

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Speaker 1: after that? Um, he was taken out of this program

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Speaker 1: and put in a different cell where he was still

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Speaker 1: doing the same information and programming that he was before that,

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Speaker 1: but it was given different names and they didn't have

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Speaker 1: access to any of the other cells. So I assume

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Speaker 1: it's just like presumed to go on under different nomenclature.

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Speaker 1: I assumed that the government's watchful eye over our doings

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Speaker 1: on the Internet as long and like to a degree

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Speaker 1: that we will never be able to comprehend as as ordinary.

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Speaker 1: Joe snow Layman pre Okay, that's perfect. Hey, hey, it's cool.

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Speaker 1: Everybody uses incognito mode on your Chrome browser. That totally works, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Comcast a d T everybody, we're all good. Your internet

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Speaker 1: service provider not looking at that stuff. Yeah, so my goodness.

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Speaker 1: First of all, thank you for calling us with that

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Speaker 1: that story. UM, it's it's incredible that this saga touched

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Speaker 1: so close to home for you with your brother and

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Speaker 1: his involvement in this program that you mentioned Total information awareness. Now,

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Speaker 1: I cut out a couple of pieces of your voicemail

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Speaker 1: just so you know, and so you guys know that

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Speaker 1: I did that, UM for clarity. And one of the

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Speaker 1: things that our color was asking was whether or not

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Speaker 1: we've covered anything like this before in the past, and

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Speaker 1: we most certainly have discussed both the n s A

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Speaker 1: and their activities. We've discussed prison before, and a couple

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Speaker 1: of other information awareness programs that are both aimed externally

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Speaker 1: to the United States by the United States, as well

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Speaker 1: as programs that are in other countries that are aimed

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Speaker 1: at the United States, including Stellar Wind and couple of

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Speaker 1: other things we've talked about. But I figured this is

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Speaker 1: a great opportunity to really break some some of that

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Speaker 1: stuff down and to start back at the total Information

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Speaker 1: Awareness program that was going to be in effect. There

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Speaker 1: were there were attempts to put this program into effect,

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Speaker 1: and it did begin in fact functioning, but a name changed,

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Speaker 1: as our color mentioned is there, and you know, the

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Speaker 1: situation changed, just like what his brother experience where he

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Speaker 1: was working inside a black box somewhere on this thing

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Speaker 1: that they called total Information Awareness. Then they changed the name.

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Speaker 1: Then he moved somewhere else, essentially doing the same work.

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Speaker 1: So I'm gonna jump to an article from the a

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Speaker 1: c l U called Q and A on the Pentagon's

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Speaker 1: Total Information Awareness program. Yeah, it's it's really good, and

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna over read some of this verbatim. Some of

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Speaker 1: it you can go and check out on your own

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Speaker 1: if you wish. But if you know you're being asked

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Speaker 1: what it is, this is how the A c L

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Speaker 1: you would describe it. It's the closest thing to a

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Speaker 1: true Big Brother program that's ever been seriously contemplated within

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Speaker 1: the United States. First of all, that's saying something and yikes,

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Speaker 1: alarm bells right, um. It's what it will do, or

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Speaker 1: what it was planning on doing, was pulling together as

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Speaker 1: many different things and as many different sources of one

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Speaker 1: information that people generate every day into a huge database.

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Speaker 1: So bank transactions, things that you buy at your story,

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Speaker 1: your credit card, transactions where you go, what you search online,

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Speaker 1: all kinds of things like that. It's gonna put all

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Speaker 1: of that into a big database and then attempt to

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Speaker 1: to then go through and look through all of that

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Speaker 1: data to find terrorist activity. I'm doing air quotes here, um,

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Speaker 1: to identify possible terror terrorism leanings. These are all terrible

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Speaker 1: ways to put it, but the whole point is to

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Speaker 1: combine public and private information to see who you are

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Speaker 1: and what you do and pick out the bad guys

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Speaker 1: amongst us. Now, it was begun by DARPA, a group

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Speaker 1: that we talked about a lot, the Defense Advanced Research

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Speaker 1: Projects agency, and um, there's a guy named John Poindexter

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Speaker 1: who was I think he was a National Security advisor

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Speaker 1: at the time. I can't remember if he was the

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Speaker 1: the National Security Advisor at the time or back during

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Speaker 1: Ronald Reagan's presidency, but I know he was at one

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Speaker 1: point because he was involved in Remember the Iran contrast

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Speaker 1: scandal you ever heard of that we've talked about on

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Speaker 1: this show. He was a big part of that U

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Speaker 1: And according to the A C. L U and history,

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Speaker 1: he stated at that time, during the Iran contra scandal

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Speaker 1: that it was his duty to withhold information from Congress,

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Speaker 1: you know, for their protection, for America's protection, for national

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Speaker 1: security reasons. He literally called total information awareness a quote

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Speaker 1: Manhattan project for counter terrorism. So in his mind, the

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Speaker 1: secrecy is part of it. Well, think about it on paper. Theoretically,

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Speaker 1: gathering all that online information could could very very well

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Speaker 1: find people who are leaning towards, you know, doing something wrong.

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Speaker 1: Maybe it could, but but it also means that everybody

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Speaker 1: else gets caught up in the dragnet. And then one

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Speaker 1: one agency or multiple agencies who are sharing the information

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Speaker 1: have access to everybody. They've got literally a profile like

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Speaker 1: a like a school what is it the school record

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Speaker 1: that you are always permanent record, permanent record. Everybody's got one,

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Speaker 1: and you know used to be only the worst, the

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Speaker 1: worst people had their FBI Dossie Hayes or whatever a

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Speaker 1: file on them. Exactly, thank you. UM. But you know,

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Speaker 1: now through this program in the early two thousands, every

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Speaker 1: every American citizen would have one UM and this thing,

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Speaker 1: this thing was put of, This was put into a bill.

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Speaker 1: I believe it was the Homeland not the Homeland Security Act. Uh. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was the Homeland Security Act that this the t

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Speaker 1: i A was put into. And eventually it was taken

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Speaker 1: out because there were so much you know, negative sponse

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Speaker 1: towards this. Obviously, if you're thinking person, this feels like

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Speaker 1: an overstep and overreach. UM. And, as our caller said,

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Speaker 1: didn't necessarily go away. It kind of changed names as

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Speaker 1: as new UM security acts went through Congress and through

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Speaker 1: the White House, this kind of gathering of information continued,

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Speaker 1: and then we found out through Edwards Snowden and several

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Speaker 1: other whistleblowers that this thing was very much alive, you know,

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Speaker 1: two thousand, seven, thousand eight and onwards. Yeah, it's a

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Speaker 1: it's a dragnet that never ends, and it has no um,

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Speaker 1: it has no constraints in terms of length of time

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Speaker 1: of observation. Right, there's no there's nothing in there that

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Speaker 1: says we can only watch people from nine to five

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Speaker 1: Monday through Friday. I gotta give you, guys problems for

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Speaker 1: using the word dragnet. I don't hear that used in

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Speaker 1: regular conversation very much. It's a great word. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm kudos to for bringing it back. It's a great vision, ull, Right.

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Speaker 1: If you imagine that you're fishing, that's literally what this is.

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Speaker 1: You just everything gets like dragging the lake, you know,

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Speaker 1: looking for a body. Uh. And I'm gonna read really

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Speaker 1: quickly to you guys from a New York Times opinion

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Speaker 1: piece written by William Sapphire maybe s A or sefury

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Speaker 1: U s A f I R E. It's from November fourteenth,

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Speaker 1: two thousand two. And this is what what he stated

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Speaker 1: if the Homeland Security Act is not amended before passage,

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Speaker 1: that this is when the t I A was in there.

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Speaker 1: Here's what will happen to you. Every purchase you make

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Speaker 1: with a credit card, every magazine subscription you buy, and

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Speaker 1: medical prescription you fill, every website you visit, an email

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Speaker 1: you send or receive, every academic grade you receive, every

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Speaker 1: bank deposit you make, every trip you book, and every

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Speaker 1: event you attend. All these transactions and communications will go

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Speaker 1: into what the Defense Department describes as a virtual centralized

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Speaker 1: grand database. Um. Just to really put that, when it

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Speaker 1: when it's combined like that in one long list, it

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Speaker 1: just feels so icky. It should feel like. The crazy

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Speaker 1: thing is this isn't the only one, right, this isn't

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Speaker 1: the only fish of its fin in the sea. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And there's also from what I understand, it's not only

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Speaker 1: increasingly easy to create something like this, but it's increasingly

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Speaker 1: difficult for the average Jane or John citizen to fight

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Speaker 1: against it, to opt out, you know, and and not

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Speaker 1: to not to dump too hard on the US. If

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Speaker 1: you don't think that other countries are doing this, if

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Speaker 1: you don't think your country is doing this, you are

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Speaker 1: being willfully naive. I was just I was just listening

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Speaker 1: to some of the recent news and research about sesame credit,

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Speaker 1: particularly inspired by the rumors about the disappearance of the

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Speaker 1: Chinese billionaire ma I say, rumors about his disappearance. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And then I learned some really disturbing things, not just

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Speaker 1: about sesame credit, but about how so much control over

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Speaker 1: user generated internet forums like Reddit, so much of that

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Speaker 1: stuff is coming from a single US Air Force space. No,

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Speaker 1: a lot of it. A lot of it was uh

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Speaker 1: and I can send you guys the links. But I

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Speaker 1: think we have this illusion of safety or privacy, and

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Speaker 1: privacy as we understand it, We've said it before, didn't

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Speaker 1: really exist for a long long time. You know, like

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Speaker 1: in ah in days of your way, before the internet,

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Speaker 1: way before radio, way before television. Uh, they still didn't

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Speaker 1: have what you might consider privacy today. People were living

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Speaker 1: with their entire families in a single room on the farm,

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Speaker 1: and you could hear what your parents were up to

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Speaker 1: at night. That's stuff very private. Uh. So I think

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Speaker 1: we're fooling ourselves when we have this idealized version of privacy.

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Speaker 1: But I think we're also fooling ourselves if we say

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Speaker 1: it's worth it to catch a potential terrorists it's about control.

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Speaker 1: I think, well, it is about it is about control.

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Speaker 1: I I would just say, you know, the feeling of

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Speaker 1: privacy was just a little a little different. I would say, um,

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Speaker 1: and maybe it is all well that we pulled over

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Speaker 1: our own eyes in in belief that such a thing exists.

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Speaker 1: But it certainly felt different in the fifties sixties prior

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Speaker 1: to that, when you know that the communication that you're

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Speaker 1: having with someone that is far away with especi communication

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Speaker 1: is probably one of the most vital things. Transactions are occurring,

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Speaker 1: if you're making them at a local bank right or

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Speaker 1: through a check the scent, through the mail system. I'm

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Speaker 1: just trying to think of other things electronic communications happening

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Speaker 1: over a phone, that's really it. Well, I mean, Matt,

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Speaker 1: do you think the expectation of privacy is just a

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Speaker 1: thing of the past, Like, I mean, everybody knows that

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Speaker 1: if you're banking or if you're like you know how

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Speaker 1: certain records are publicly available or whatever, and there's no

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Speaker 1: expectation of privacy in that, um, you know, to keep

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Speaker 1: people honest, I guess, but you know, with things like

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Speaker 1: phone calls or the mail or whatever, Like, there's been

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Speaker 1: this sort of kind of waning sense of like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I have the right to privacy. But do you think

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Speaker 1: there's gonna be a new generation where that's just not

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Speaker 1: on people's minds anymore and people just understand that if

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Speaker 1: they're communicating that it's it's it's pretty much fair game

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Speaker 1: that someone's listening. Yeah, Ben, And I'll let you continue

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Speaker 1: with this, but I would just point out in the

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Speaker 1: nineties seventies you had programs like Echelon that we've talked

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Speaker 1: about before. UM Promise software came out around that time.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if we've talked about bal Ernie, but

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Speaker 1: I know we hit a couple of these other programs

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Speaker 1: so that we're meant to pull in any and all

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Speaker 1: electronic communications. And they've been doing that for a long time. UM.

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Speaker 1: So now now that we know about Stellar Wind, and

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Speaker 1: we know about PRISM, we know about all these newer programs. Uh. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think privacy at least to the upper echelons of

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Speaker 1: the intelligence agencies within the United States if you're a

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Speaker 1: citizen here UM as well if you're a citizen anywhere

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Speaker 1: else on the planet. UM, I think our expectation of

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Speaker 1: privacy to them is gone. And also and also to

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Speaker 1: telecom agencies. Are companies, conglomerates whatever, um E Corp. And

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Speaker 1: F Corp. And whichever other corps. They've got it all

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Speaker 1: because we do it all through their services, and we

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Speaker 1: we pay them for it. Yeah, and every cup, like

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Speaker 1: if that's a service, every cup we buy has these

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Speaker 1: holes in it. You know what I mean. It's a

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Speaker 1: leaky cup because there's no expectation that your cup will

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Speaker 1: hold your liquid anymore. It's a sieve. And you know

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Speaker 1: we didn't. We didn't start today's episode planning to do

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Speaker 1: prop comedy. That was just Bob Ross happy accident. But

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Speaker 1: you're right. I would advance though that they're they're a

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Speaker 1: couple of other dangers here too, that the a c

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Speaker 1: L you clearly outlines, right, and uh, the first, it's

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Speaker 1: much easier for a government agency of any government to

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Speaker 1: do this kind of thing now because you don't have

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Speaker 1: to build the infrastructure. You just have to buddy up

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Speaker 1: with a telecom that already has it and say send

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Speaker 1: me your stuff, and you can make a law that

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Speaker 1: says they have to do so. And it's gonna be

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Speaker 1: hidden somewhere. It's gonna be very difficult for other citizens

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Speaker 1: to care about it, right because who has the time.

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Speaker 1: I gotta get back to clubhouse and TikTok. I would

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Speaker 1: love a clubhouse invite if someone wants to send us

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Speaker 1: a clubhouse. Has that a beta situation I just heard

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Speaker 1: about this today. It's like an audio based social media

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Speaker 1: kind of right. Yeah, yeah, A lot of a lot

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Speaker 1: of listeners have reached out to me and maybe to

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Speaker 1: you guys as well, saying, hey, why are you on Clubhouse?

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Speaker 1: Are you guys gonna do something on club abouts, to

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Speaker 1: which the responses I guess, just send us an invite.

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Speaker 1: It's still kind of you know, the way that Facebook

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Speaker 1: originally was invite only and one had to go to

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Speaker 1: a specific series of schools. I'm really glad that you

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Speaker 1: brought Facebook up. Yes, yes, because I've I've got another

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Speaker 1: danger for you too, and it's very much related to it. Okay,

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Speaker 1: maybe this, maybe this sets you up even better. So, uh,

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Speaker 1: people who are in the realm of technology and ethics

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Speaker 1: and the dangers of social media are doubtlessly familiar with

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Speaker 1: the kind of one of the fathers of virtual reality,

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Speaker 1: Jarren Lanier. He I think he may have appeared on

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Speaker 1: Social Dilemma. I can't remember, but he speaks widely about

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Speaker 1: the dangers of social media. And I proposed to you

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Speaker 1: guys that these are these are inextricably linked with total

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Speaker 1: information awareness type programs, because look, so far, what we've

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Speaker 1: been talking about is the idea that t I A

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Speaker 1: type stuff. These things are known as sig ads I

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Speaker 1: believe right, these signal intelligence collection dragnet things they are.

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Speaker 1: They're presented to us as passive monitoring programs, right, monitoring

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Speaker 1: and analyzing data points and then trying to prevent crime.

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Speaker 1: But what we have to remember is that when social

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Speaker 1: media emerges, there's also a huge amount of research put in, brilliant,

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Speaker 1: if evil research put into changing people's behavior. You are

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Speaker 1: part of a behavioral experiment every time you log on

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Speaker 1: to Twitter, to Instagram, to Facebook, anything like that. You

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Speaker 1: know what I mean, because there are different parties that

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Speaker 1: are gathering your habits and they want to please their advertisers, right,

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Speaker 1: so they can grad trually push you toward something and

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Speaker 1: you will not be aware that your behavior is changing

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Speaker 1: unless you were very um, very I I don't know,

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Speaker 1: very paranoid about it, constantly questioning why you believe something

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Speaker 1: or where that belief came from. So I think Jaron

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Speaker 1: Lanier is right, and I think it ties into this.

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Speaker 1: I'm setting up a world where it's possible. In this conversation,

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Speaker 1: we're saying up a world where it's possible for someone

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Speaker 1: in charge of a CIGAD to do the same thing

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Speaker 1: the FBI did when they were trying to radicalize members

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Speaker 1: of the Islamic faith. You know, when the FBI tried

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Speaker 1: to manufacture terrorists that really happened, And with stuff like this,

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Speaker 1: I'm not saying this happened yet, but with stuff like this,

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Speaker 1: it is feasible that they can do. So there you go.

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Speaker 1: Sorry's stepping off the soapbox here, but I want to

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Speaker 1: give some dates and bring it back to Facebook. So

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Speaker 1: in two thousand three two, well really throughout the two

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Speaker 1: thousand's and after September eleven, two thousand one, UH, a

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Speaker 1: type of dragnet program like t i A was in development.

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Speaker 1: The thought of it being created was there, and it

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Speaker 1: needed to get approved by Congress. You know, I told

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Speaker 1: you it went through that Homeland Security Act and it

403
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Speaker 1: was a part of it, but it was struck down.

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Speaker 1: In two thousand three, Congress officially cut off funding to

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Speaker 1: this program. UH. I think it was called the Information

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Speaker 1: Awareness Office, Correct me if I'm wrong there. Now you

407
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Speaker 1: know it was in development in two thousand three, Facebook

408
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Speaker 1: the Facebook, and in two thousand four, in February, the

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Speaker 1: Facebook launched. Now instead of some government dragnet going through

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Speaker 1: and picking up where you go, where you eat, how

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Speaker 1: you know who your friends are, with whom you interact,

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Speaker 1: what you do on a regular basis. At that time,

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Speaker 1: I don't think they were taking your billing information or

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Speaker 1: collecting data about spending early on in Facebook's career, but

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Speaker 1: they were collecting almost all of the information that these

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Speaker 1: dragnets were pulling from UM. And we were users began

417
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Speaker 1: in droves to give willingly their information to this other

418
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Speaker 1: weird system that didn't need a dragnet, it just needed

419
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Speaker 1: it needed a box in which you could place all

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Speaker 1: that stuff and then send out to somebody. And it's

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Speaker 1: really interesting just to see that even though Congress, via

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Speaker 1: the representatives of the citizens of this country, decided that

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Speaker 1: this was a bad idea to give all of this

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Speaker 1: information away, to pull in all of this information and

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Speaker 1: keep it all track it all, we chose as individuals

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Speaker 1: collectively to give almost all of that away willingly. And

427
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,080
Speaker 1: we give away our bank information or credit card information

428
00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:49,879
Speaker 1: to third parties through apps all the time. We do

429
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:52,399
Speaker 1: that all the time. I wouldn't do anything nefarious with it.

430
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:56,639
Speaker 1: I mean, it's all encrypted, right, that's it's all trustworthy.

431
00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:59,639
Speaker 1: In the end, it's weird. It's data points. It doesn't

432
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:02,960
Speaker 1: matter if anyone or some company or some app has

433
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:05,439
Speaker 1: access to exactly what you spent your money on and

434
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 1: where they you know, the meta data within that information

435
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:11,960
Speaker 1: is sometimes more powerful. Yeah, it paints a picture of

436
00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:16,399
Speaker 1: a person then then then can be bought and sold persona.

437
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 1: It's literally called that in marketing. UH. It can also

438
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 1: be used to um. It can be used in a

439
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:26,439
Speaker 1: lot of sticky ways, like the dystopian version of this.

440
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:29,879
Speaker 1: The closest we have to a dystopian version that is

441
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:33,919
Speaker 1: real now is what's sometimes called sesame credit or sema

442
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 1: credit in UH in China, and recently the public has

443
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 1: grown very concerned there because we called it. We said,

444
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:45,280
Speaker 1: it's not always going to be opt in. Now there's

445
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:49,480
Speaker 1: another version that's for corporations. Recently, I think just a

446
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 1: few weeks ago, a nine year old girl was found

447
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:58,800
Speaker 1: liable by court for her dead father's debts and she

448
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:02,360
Speaker 1: was punished under in a social credit system because she

449
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:07,120
Speaker 1: couldn't pay those debts because you know, she's nine. So

450
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:10,880
Speaker 1: this has this has sparked a little bit of public outcry.

451
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:14,680
Speaker 1: But the proverbial horse may have already left the barn here.

452
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:18,960
Speaker 1: And the problem is that the advantages of a surveillance

453
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,360
Speaker 1: state for anybody wants to maintain the status quo. That's

454
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:26,680
Speaker 1: ultimately what we're talking about. Preventing terrorism, sure, but also

455
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:32,600
Speaker 1: preventing dissident activity, right and and no freethink right, none

456
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 1: of that. Uh. And then also you can imagine this,

457
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 1: imagine the insider trading capabilities you have with this. You're

458
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 1: you're one of the government heads of this program. How

459
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 1: far away are we from a world where you can say,

460
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:54,280
Speaker 1: I have a lot of stock in uh l A lights.

461
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 1: Those are the shoes that light up right, and you walk,

462
00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 1: I have a lot of stock in l A lights.

463
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 1: Let's just let's bring those back. Let's bring back l

464
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 1: A lights. And then you just fiddle some gears. You

465
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 1: got some science noise going on the background, booperoooo, and

466
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:10,960
Speaker 1: the likes start pouring in and the ads start selling,

467
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 1: and then you are in l A light the bloomin

468
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 1: ear that's too much. You're nell A Lights tycoon, It's possible.

469
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:23,480
Speaker 1: Or you know, you have a lot of stock in Microsoft, Yahoo, Google, Facebook, YouTube,

470
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 1: a O L Skype, Apple, and you're just you know,

471
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 1: because those companies are working directly or we're working directly

472
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 1: with the PRISM program. That was just siphoning information off

473
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 1: to the n s A. So yeehaw. I'm pretty sure

474
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 1: you could trade your butt off if you had all

475
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:47,320
Speaker 1: that info. Yuck. Hey guys, Um, there's more to talk

476
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 1: about here, but I think we should move on. Is

477
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 1: that all right? I think it's the only uh sane

478
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 1: solution for the moment. Yes, it's the new year. It's

479
00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 1: the new year. The government's still taking all your stuff

480
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 1: keeping up the wait you mean you mean you mean

481
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:04,440
Speaker 1: flipping over to one didn't just like solve all our problems.

482
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 1: That's the bummer. It's all good, it's all good. But hey,

483
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 1: thank you so much anonymous person who told us that

484
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 1: cool story and made this discussion happen. We hope you

485
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:16,960
Speaker 1: enjoyed that, and uh, we will see you all after

486
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 1: this quick word from our sponsor. All right, and we're back,

487
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 1: um with a slightly more offbeat story, a little bit

488
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 1: less of a you know, Dystopian nine four on steroids

489
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:39,440
Speaker 1: kind of situation that Matt's story painted a pretty very

490
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 1: vivid picture of. It's important stuff to know, but good lord,

491
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 1: sometimes I just feel like we're like fighting against the current,

492
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like, my goodness, gracious. But

493
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 1: here's the thing. All of these dystopian ideations that I

494
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:56,720
Speaker 1: think we're all subject to now, they can bring about

495
00:30:56,800 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 1: some pretty serious mental struggles. I think we've all experienced

496
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 1: it during COVID and during being isolated, and you know,

497
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 1: things like anxiety and depression are on the rise. And

498
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 1: certainly these are things that one can be predisposed to, UM,

499
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:14,080
Speaker 1: but it's also something that your environment can just kind

500
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:17,120
Speaker 1: of bring bring on, or just your circumstances. And I

501
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:19,680
Speaker 1: think we've all been been struggling in our own ways

502
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:24,600
Speaker 1: with the circumstances dumped on us. UM. But there's good news,

503
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:29,680
Speaker 1: my friends. There's good news because there are some substances

504
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:34,800
Speaker 1: that have in the past been highly regulated, outlawed, and

505
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 1: maligned that are kind of seeing a new a new day, UM,

506
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:43,160
Speaker 1: a new future where they could potentially be used legally

507
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:45,040
Speaker 1: to help us with some of these things that I'm

508
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 1: talking about. And to hear about that, we will hear

509
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 1: the experience of a listener named Steve who called in

510
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 1: to tell us his story. He guys, I just wanted

511
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:56,240
Speaker 1: to call and been calling a lot lately, but UM,

512
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:59,040
Speaker 1: This is Steve from Denver, and I just wanted to

513
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:01,280
Speaker 1: call to talk about solocybin. It's been a while since

514
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:04,760
Speaker 1: I've heard something about it from you guys. Um. I

515
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 1: was straight edge for my whole life, literally never did anything,

516
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 1: and then when I was about forty, depression was hitting

517
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:15,680
Speaker 1: me so hot. I didn't want to do pharmaceuticals or

518
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 1: any of that junk. And so after fifteen years and

519
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 1: looking into UH psychedelics and and such, I decided I

520
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:24,960
Speaker 1: was going to try and mushrooms as a remedy to

521
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 1: my depression and anxiety. And it worked. My first trip

522
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:32,479
Speaker 1: was pretty incredible, and my wife and I took our

523
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:36,080
Speaker 1: first trip together, and nothing but positive stuff about it.

524
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 1: Since then, it's every two to three months, I would

525
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:41,000
Speaker 1: say that I need some kind of a reset. I

526
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:44,280
Speaker 1: don't micro dose. I do a lot of psilocybin at once,

527
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 1: and I basically go out of space and fight my

528
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 1: demons while riding a rocket made of UH drugs. I

529
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 1: guess anyway it works for me. I'd be interested in

530
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:57,360
Speaker 1: you guys taking a new look at the new outlook

531
00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 1: on psilocybin and other drugs as to treat action and

532
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:05,600
Speaker 1: depression and things of that nature. Thanks for the show, Steve.

533
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:08,080
Speaker 1: I was really hoping you were gonna say a rocket

534
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 1: made of unicorn tears or or something like that. But

535
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:15,480
Speaker 1: drugs is also fine. That's the thing, this idea of drugs,

536
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 1: you know, the war on drugs, and the idea of

537
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 1: drugs being something that is maligned and and treated with

538
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:25,240
Speaker 1: uh disdain by the powers that be, and the idea

539
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:28,920
Speaker 1: that like, you know, substances that grow naturally from the

540
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:32,960
Speaker 1: earth should be uprooted and regulated and kept from people.

541
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:37,040
Speaker 1: And um, there's a really fantastic documentary called, I think

542
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 1: it's literally called Fantastic Fun Guy that just came out

543
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 1: that um, I've only seen a little bit of and

544
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 1: I can't wait to watch the whole thing. But it

545
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 1: goes into a lot of the new uses for psilocybin

546
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 1: that that Steve was talking about and that we've talked

547
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:51,080
Speaker 1: about on the show in the past, and that we

548
00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:53,240
Speaker 1: actually have an updepth coming episode we're gonna go into

549
00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 1: it a little deeper. But um, I think we can

550
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 1: stick for the purposes of this um conversation maybe to

551
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 1: just the way that tied is turned in the way

552
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 1: that Steve is talking about, and you can measure that

553
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 1: in a couple of ways, but one of them is

554
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 1: with money I p o s by pharmaceutical companies and

555
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:16,600
Speaker 1: pharmaceutical companies getting invested in magic mushrooms to treat things

556
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:22,279
Speaker 1: like depression, UM or even neuropathic pain. And this all

557
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:27,080
Speaker 1: comes from a recent study by Johns Hopkins University that

558
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:31,400
Speaker 1: looked at the effects of psilocybin assisted therapy on major

559
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:35,720
Speaker 1: depressive disorder UH and it found in a randomized clinical

560
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 1: trial of twenty four participants with major depressive disorder that

561
00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:44,920
Speaker 1: those who received immediate psilocybin treatment compared with delayed treatment

562
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:48,840
Speaker 1: showed improvement in UM what they referred to as blinded

563
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:54,120
Speaker 1: clinician radar assessed depression severity UH and also in self

564
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:57,279
Speaker 1: reported secondary outcomes. So that's sort of a fancy way

565
00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 1: of saying they got better quicker those that that took

566
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:05,399
Speaker 1: the psilocybin UM And when you get these studies like this,

567
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:08,480
Speaker 1: UH not immediately, but I just like I said that

568
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:11,920
Speaker 1: the tide seems to be turning with things like marijuana

569
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 1: legalization and now psilocybin legalization that was just made completely

570
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:20,280
Speaker 1: legal in UH Oregon. And if I'm not a mistake

571
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:24,080
Speaker 1: in Portland, ore Agon just like legalized like all drugs.

572
00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:27,000
Speaker 1: Did I make that up? It's something, Yeah, that's the thing.

573
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:31,120
Speaker 1: Um So with psilocybin in particular, it's like, obviously recreational

574
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:33,480
Speaker 1: use is fun and that people enjoy doing that to

575
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:36,200
Speaker 1: you know, trip on mushrooms and listen to music, go

576
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:38,640
Speaker 1: to a concert. But it turns out that all of

577
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 1: the things you've read, people like Terence McKenna and all

578
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 1: these psycho knots you know, from throughout you know, modern history. Uh,

579
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:50,000
Speaker 1: it does make some interesting neurological connections that can help

580
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 1: people deal with things like depression or end of life

581
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 1: or the more clinical kind of uh, use of treating pain.

582
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:04,360
Speaker 1: And they're actually is a brand new upcoming initial public

583
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 1: stock offering from a company in Canada called Trip Pharmaceuticals

584
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 1: and James Coo, who is the CEO of the California

585
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 1: based Trip Therapeutics, rather than the name of the company,

586
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:23,960
Speaker 1: he is expecting to go public on the Canadian Securities Exchange. Uh,

587
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:27,120
Speaker 1: and that happened. This article was from let's see, this

588
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 1: article was from the seventeenth of December, so that will

589
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 1: have happened by now. And he believes that his company will.

590
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:39,000
Speaker 1: They're they're not interested in in recreational they're jumping off

591
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:41,279
Speaker 1: of studies like this John hop Johns Hopkins study, and

592
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:44,280
Speaker 1: they're interested in being kind of the you know, standard

593
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:48,759
Speaker 1: bearer of using psilocybin to treat these conditions that we're

594
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:52,240
Speaker 1: talking about. So it feels like the tide is turning.

595
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:54,759
Speaker 1: And I think we've probably all heard the term micro

596
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:57,800
Speaker 1: dose thrown around so much lately. Um it's something that

597
00:36:57,840 --> 00:36:59,880
Speaker 1: people very casually do and it doesn't make you like

598
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:03,040
Speaker 1: messed up. It's just kind of, you know, grounds people

599
00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:05,880
Speaker 1: a little bit, and it's something that's very very popular,

600
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:08,720
Speaker 1: almost to the point of being becoming becoming a bit cliche.

601
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:13,160
Speaker 1: But I just think the future of psilocybin um you

602
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:18,319
Speaker 1: know therapy is absolutely fascinating. Yeah, it's it's a smart move, right.

603
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:24,239
Speaker 1: It certainly functioned really well for the burgeoning cannabis industry

604
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 1: and uh IN in normalizing cannabis use across the United States,

605
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:32,600
Speaker 1: like putting it as a medicinal use first and then

606
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:38,080
Speaker 1: transitioning eventually into more you know, open use of the substance.

607
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 1: I'm looking at this website for Theistal, another another company.

608
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:45,640
Speaker 1: Then there are many of these other companies that are

609
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:49,960
Speaker 1: attempting to find ways to introduce psilocybin into some kind

610
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:52,880
Speaker 1: of medical treatment, and it is, as you said, usually

611
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:56,680
Speaker 1: aimed at anxiety depression, the state in which many of

612
00:37:56,760 --> 00:38:00,880
Speaker 1: us find ourselves in a pretty constant basis. Um. I

613
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:05,560
Speaker 1: think it's nice to imagine it being more ubiquitous in

614
00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:09,640
Speaker 1: that realm, rather than rather than some kind of medication

615
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:12,680
Speaker 1: that's in a pill form that you know, some company

616
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 1: is going to make just billions of dollars a year

617
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:19,600
Speaker 1: off of until they get sued to oblivion because they

618
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:24,600
Speaker 1: started some kind of epidemic. Well, yeah, we see. Also,

619
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 1: you know, similar things happening with marijuana decriminalization and legalization

620
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:35,040
Speaker 1: and started with medicinal urge. I would have step back here, um,

621
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:38,239
Speaker 1: just to address several things, uh, Steve. First off, thank

622
00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:41,319
Speaker 1: you so much for sending in this awesome voicemail. And

623
00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:44,799
Speaker 1: you're right, we have heard you, we have heard from you,

624
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:48,200
Speaker 1: and I am I can't remember if you've told us

625
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:50,839
Speaker 1: about this in a past call, but I fell into

626
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:55,200
Speaker 1: a rabbit hole figuring out your accent. Steve. I think

627
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:57,160
Speaker 1: it's super cool, so I would love to I would

628
00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:59,479
Speaker 1: love to hear about your journey there. I would also

629
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:02,760
Speaker 1: pause it that I would ask, Rather, I would ask

630
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:08,239
Speaker 1: is this the forefront of new medicine or is this

631
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:13,080
Speaker 1: the resurgence of ancient medicine. We did some previous work

632
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:21,799
Speaker 1: on the possible relationship between early religious experiences and hallucinogens,

633
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:24,360
Speaker 1: and there are a lot of great writers out there, fringe,

634
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:28,520
Speaker 1: but great writers who will argue that hallucinogens have played

635
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 1: an integral role in our cognitive development or our social development.

636
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:37,040
Speaker 1: Maybe it is a better way to put it over time, uh,

637
00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:39,840
Speaker 1: I think was Bill Hicks has this great piece on

638
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 1: the use of hallucinogens. We do want to say, I

639
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:45,840
Speaker 1: think this speaks to your point just made Matt. We

640
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 1: do want to say that psilocybin, magic mushrooms, they're not

641
00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:53,439
Speaker 1: the same thing as LSD, They're not the same thing

642
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:59,400
Speaker 1: as some other hallucinogens like uh, like ayahuasca is going

643
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 1: to give you different experience in comparison to something like

644
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:06,880
Speaker 1: d MT or something like psilocybin. So a lot of

645
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:12,120
Speaker 1: these laws being relaxed are specifically I believe this is correct, Well,

646
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 1: they're specifically for psilocybin, right, They're not all halluciness. It's

647
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:18,919
Speaker 1: very specifically for psilocybin and take it even stuff further,

648
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:23,000
Speaker 1: there are companies working on developing synthetic psilocybin, which is

649
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 1: a whole new class of of drug for treatment of

650
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:32,359
Speaker 1: these same things, especially these neuropsychiatric disorders. And and it's

651
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:36,239
Speaker 1: weird because public opinion is a little bit divided. Well,

652
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:40,080
Speaker 1: public opinion is very divided here in the United States

653
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:45,120
Speaker 1: because everyone alive in the US has in some way

654
00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:49,239
Speaker 1: been affected by what's called the War on drugs. If

655
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:52,839
Speaker 1: not directly, your mind has been affected because like how

656
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:54,839
Speaker 1: many people have just heard us say the phrase war

657
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:57,239
Speaker 1: on drugs and had a p s A played in

658
00:40:57,280 --> 00:40:59,600
Speaker 1: their heads? What did you guys get whatever? I got

659
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:02,360
Speaker 1: the egg? I get the egg too. That way you

660
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:05,880
Speaker 1: got um. It wasn't the egg because it wasn't a

661
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:07,719
Speaker 1: video or anything or a p s A. It was

662
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:12,640
Speaker 1: just people in my face as a child telling me

663
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:18,520
Speaker 1: how bad drugs are. Just people, they're just like drugs

664
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:23,840
Speaker 1: are bad. We talked about it before. I don't know

665
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:26,200
Speaker 1: we talked about before, but I had someone coming to

666
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:29,440
Speaker 1: my school with a giant suitcase full of every drug

667
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:31,640
Speaker 1: And I think we've then and I we've we've mentioned

668
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:32,919
Speaker 1: that it just kind of was like, oh, I won't

669
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:36,040
Speaker 1: try that one, and try and try that, but it

670
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:38,080
Speaker 1: was just kind of a funny little technique that they use.

671
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:40,040
Speaker 1: I don't think it quite went the way they were hoping.

672
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:42,480
Speaker 1: I don't think so either, But I did love I

673
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:45,560
Speaker 1: always love a good presentation and a science terrified because

674
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:49,080
Speaker 1: it's one of those like trifold cases, right yeah, and

675
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:52,000
Speaker 1: prop comedy. I know you're a fan of Oh yeah, yeah, yeah,

676
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:56,440
Speaker 1: regular carrot Top. Our local DARE program was I'm kidding. No.

677
00:41:56,719 --> 00:41:59,239
Speaker 1: They they their hearts were in the right place. They

678
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:01,680
Speaker 1: were doing the best it could, but just like an

679
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:05,759
Speaker 1: abstinence program, statistically we see the results don't bear out.

680
00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:09,880
Speaker 1: We also should shout out the fantastic work that Robert

681
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:13,799
Speaker 1: Lamb and Joe McCormick have done on hallucinogens and psilocybin,

682
00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:17,280
Speaker 1: specifically over its stuff to blow your mind. I would

683
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:20,120
Speaker 1: recommend checking them out if you haven't already yet. Steve

684
00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:22,600
Speaker 1: Um and I think we could. I think we could

685
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:26,799
Speaker 1: dive into this further because psilocybin has also been used

686
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:31,200
Speaker 1: in experiments with esp I think uh it's been used

687
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:35,239
Speaker 1: in experiments to help people, uh break bad habits. Such

688
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 1: as smoking tobacco or I believe it's also hasn't been

689
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:41,080
Speaker 1: you am I thinking of psilocybin when I say it's

690
00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:44,239
Speaker 1: been used in alcoholism treatment, just addiction period. It's it's

691
00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:47,960
Speaker 1: a great way of like breaking habits, breaking patterns. Uh.

692
00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:50,560
Speaker 1: And those patterns might be physical, and a lot of

693
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 1: them are mental. Uh And and that's sort of what

694
00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:56,520
Speaker 1: depression is. It's negative mental patterns and cyclical thinking and

695
00:42:56,560 --> 00:42:58,480
Speaker 1: a lot of it, you know, is just getting caught

696
00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:00,840
Speaker 1: up in your own story and not being able to

697
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:04,080
Speaker 1: like see the big picture. And hallucinogens are often credited

698
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:07,200
Speaker 1: and letting giving people kind of like this uh spiritual

699
00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:09,560
Speaker 1: step back to kind of like zoom out and see

700
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:11,640
Speaker 1: the whole picture and and be able to kind of

701
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:13,719
Speaker 1: see where they fit into it instead of like being

702
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:16,040
Speaker 1: so myopic, you know, and everything they do because it's

703
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:18,320
Speaker 1: really easy to get get pigeonholed and like in a

704
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:21,600
Speaker 1: rut that way. Um. But one last thing on my

705
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:26,320
Speaker 1: end um. They are seeking FDA approval and it's going

706
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:30,080
Speaker 1: quite well as as it turns out. Trip Therapeutics in

707
00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:33,480
Speaker 1: the past through several rounds of venture capitalists, you know,

708
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:36,800
Speaker 1: just fundraising, I guess raised one point five million Canadian

709
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:40,560
Speaker 1: dollars through two rounds over the past UH eight or

710
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:43,520
Speaker 1: nine months, and they are looking at this upcoming I

711
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:48,359
Speaker 1: p O to help fund the development of an oral

712
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:53,160
Speaker 1: formulation of psilocybin that would be used to treat soft

713
00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:58,160
Speaker 1: tissue sarcoma UH and they've already started the process of

714
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:04,000
Speaker 1: seeking FDA approval and they treat to treat cancer, to

715
00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:07,440
Speaker 1: treat I would imagine the pain that goes along with cancer.

716
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:11,319
Speaker 1: And they're confident that they will be able to get

717
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:15,600
Speaker 1: FDA approval eventually after this I p O. Kuo, who

718
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:18,440
Speaker 1: is the I believe the CEO of Trip Therapeutics UM

719
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:21,279
Speaker 1: said they can enter directly into a second phase of

720
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:27,239
Speaker 1: clinical studies UM before getting official FDA approval because we've

721
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:30,960
Speaker 1: already seen efficacy and in these in these drugs UM.

722
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:32,880
Speaker 1: And he says, since these drugs have been proved to

723
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:35,400
Speaker 1: be safe to use during the first phase of the

724
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:37,960
Speaker 1: trial UH. And here's a quote, UM, there are two

725
00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:40,480
Speaker 1: things you need to show for any drug to be approved,

726
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:43,799
Speaker 1: safety and efficacy. We can answer that it's safe, but

727
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:48,759
Speaker 1: still need more data to prove its efficaciousness UM and

728
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:51,400
Speaker 1: studies like that Johns Hopkins Studies is a step in

729
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:54,399
Speaker 1: the right direction towards doing that, and I think that's

730
00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:59,879
Speaker 1: specifically addressing the treatment of existential distress for the cancer PIACE.

731
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:05,880
Speaker 1: That's the fear of death haunts us all. Uh. There

732
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:08,680
Speaker 1: there are some objections or a couple of objectors of

733
00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:12,120
Speaker 1: a couple of people I wouldn't say they're going full

734
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:16,239
Speaker 1: nine were on drugs opposition to this, but they are

735
00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:21,160
Speaker 1: saying we should slow down because we don't know enough

736
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:25,320
Speaker 1: about it. That's one of the big arguments, right Michael Pollen,

737
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:29,880
Speaker 1: you might recognize him from the Omnivore's dilemma. He acknowledges

738
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:35,279
Speaker 1: that psilocybin is. First off, it is weirdly safe in

739
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:39,239
Speaker 1: terms of a medicine. It is weirdly safe. There is

740
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:44,719
Speaker 1: no known lethal dose. Yet nobody that we know of

741
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:48,399
Speaker 1: in history has ever taken ingested is so much psilocybin

742
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:52,120
Speaker 1: that they die from that. But of course, steve to

743
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:56,399
Speaker 1: your comments about the rocket of drugs on high enough,

744
00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:59,560
Speaker 1: those people will have badly impaired judgment and may do

745
00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:04,680
Speaker 1: theyings that are incredibly dangerous. And when we uh, when

746
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:08,520
Speaker 1: we talk about the researchers John Hopkins, London, other places

747
00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:14,480
Speaker 1: who are gathering volunteers these very important, these crucial clinical trials.

748
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:18,759
Speaker 1: We have to realize they're screened very very carefully because

749
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:22,200
Speaker 1: we're talking about mental conditions in many ways, you know,

750
00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:25,560
Speaker 1: and when we talk about mental conditions, we're going into

751
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:29,000
Speaker 1: a realm that we even the experts in our species

752
00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:32,279
Speaker 1: do not fully understand. And how does that compound with

753
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:37,200
Speaker 1: other drug interactions. If someone is saved, for instance, on

754
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:39,920
Speaker 1: a treatment plan for psilocybin, while they're also on a

755
00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:44,200
Speaker 1: treatment plan for an antidepressant of some sort, right, what's

756
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:47,479
Speaker 1: is well buttured and antidepressant. Yeah, but it's also works

757
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:50,879
Speaker 1: really well for smoking cessation, which is interesting. Okay. Yeah,

758
00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:53,120
Speaker 1: So so we don't know all the effects. So just

759
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:55,640
Speaker 1: to give a voice to the people are saying not

760
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:58,440
Speaker 1: so fast. The weird thing that I see is I

761
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:01,799
Speaker 1: don't see anybody saying no, stop, don't do it ever.

762
00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:04,480
Speaker 1: I just say, people say, we need to do some

763
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:06,840
Speaker 1: more homework. Well. I also, it's funny to say not

764
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:09,920
Speaker 1: so fast for a substance that's literally been around since

765
00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:13,279
Speaker 1: the Stone Age, you know. I mean, people have been

766
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:16,239
Speaker 1: taking psychedelics as long as they've been growing out of

767
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:18,960
Speaker 1: the ground. So it's like I think the proof is

768
00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:20,920
Speaker 1: in the pudding, you know. And you're right. I think

769
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:24,319
Speaker 1: they were like things like go ask Alice, that very

770
00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:28,720
Speaker 1: very not real but seeming autobiography of a young woman

771
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:32,479
Speaker 1: taking drugs who have spoiler alert for a propaganda piece

772
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:35,040
Speaker 1: of propaganda that they make you read in high school. Uh.

773
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:37,600
Speaker 1: I think she ends up throwing herself off a building

774
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:39,759
Speaker 1: at the end on a bad trip or something like that.

775
00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:42,319
Speaker 1: But I mean, it's it's like refor madness kind of

776
00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:44,560
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of it really is just trumped

777
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:50,080
Speaker 1: up kind of worst case scenario fearmongering that uh you know,

778
00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:52,319
Speaker 1: and look, look, look we're talking about here. We're talking

779
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:55,600
Speaker 1: about a substance that can treat pain in the way

780
00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:59,440
Speaker 1: that things like OxyContin treat pain, you know, and OxyContin

781
00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:02,239
Speaker 1: is havely addictive, and so many things that big farm

782
00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:04,480
Speaker 1: up pushes are heavily addictive, which I think is the

783
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:07,960
Speaker 1: large drive behind why these things have been illegal for

784
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:11,319
Speaker 1: so long. So interested to see where this goes, I

785
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:15,759
Speaker 1: think it's high time it was not on purpose. But

786
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:17,399
Speaker 1: let's take another quick break and then we'll be back

787
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:29,400
Speaker 1: with another message from you, and we have returned, folks.

788
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:32,440
Speaker 1: Fellow conspiracy realists. As I said at the top of

789
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:35,880
Speaker 1: the show, one of these segments may not be appropriate

790
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:40,280
Speaker 1: for all listeners in the audience. The following will contain

791
00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:46,840
Speaker 1: graphic and completely true accounts of some very disturbing things.

792
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:51,120
Speaker 1: So with in the interest of time, without too much prologue,

793
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:55,760
Speaker 1: let's let's roll the final piece of listener mail today.

794
00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:59,160
Speaker 1: A call that we receive from an anonymous source with

795
00:48:59,239 --> 00:49:02,879
Speaker 1: a very good question. Hey guys, longtime listener of the show,

796
00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:05,960
Speaker 1: quick question, have you all ever done an episode of

797
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:10,359
Speaker 1: the U N SAX scandal? I think it's uh. I

798
00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:12,920
Speaker 1: was looking at it earlier and found something on Reddit,

799
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:16,080
Speaker 1: but I wasn't able to get in to read more

800
00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:19,960
Speaker 1: articles due to the pay walls and etcetera, etcetera. But

801
00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:23,440
Speaker 1: it seems like a charity work scandal where it says

802
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:27,040
Speaker 1: over sixty thou women and children have been breaked over

803
00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:30,200
Speaker 1: the past decade. If you all have, please let me

804
00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:32,680
Speaker 1: know and I will be really interested in listening to

805
00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:37,600
Speaker 1: it or um, you know, discuss it on the show. Thanks.

806
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:41,719
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for calling for reaching out to

807
00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:46,640
Speaker 1: us with this incredibly important point. Anonymous. First, I've been

808
00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:49,120
Speaker 1: aware of this. I believe that we I believe that

809
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:51,600
Speaker 1: we all are somewhat aware of this. We have not

810
00:49:51,719 --> 00:49:54,040
Speaker 1: done a show on this. It is a very real thing.

811
00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:59,600
Speaker 1: It's a very real series of conspiracies, not conspiracy theories.

812
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:03,560
Speaker 1: So it dates back to I think it first hits

813
00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:08,360
Speaker 1: the news around ten. There's an investigation by the Associated

814
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:13,920
Speaker 1: Press that goes public and shows that more than one

815
00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:20,480
Speaker 1: hundred UN peacekeepers we're running a sexual abuse ring, specifically

816
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:24,840
Speaker 1: in Haiti for over a decade and they were never jailed.

817
00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:31,439
Speaker 1: That's that's the headline. There have been more than more

818
00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:36,440
Speaker 1: than a thousand allegations of similar abuse and exploitation by

819
00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:41,880
Speaker 1: UN peacekeepers UH and other personnel across the planet over

820
00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:46,440
Speaker 1: the twelve years before that. The US ambassador to the

821
00:50:46,560 --> 00:50:50,160
Speaker 1: u N at the time, someone named Nicki Haley, urged

822
00:50:50,239 --> 00:50:53,799
Speaker 1: all these countries to try and hold US peacekeepers accountable

823
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:58,640
Speaker 1: for this kind of abuse. And when we say abuse,

824
00:50:58,680 --> 00:51:03,520
Speaker 1: we're talking about things like worst sex work out now, kidnapping,

825
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:10,320
Speaker 1: and sexual assaults. UH. Rapid increases in these terrible events

826
00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:17,120
Speaker 1: in countries like not just Haiti, but Cambodia, Mozambique, Kosovo, Bosnia.

827
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:21,279
Speaker 1: After the u N and NATO peacekeeping forces moved in.

828
00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:24,640
Speaker 1: There is a clear correlation. And of course we're not

829
00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:27,799
Speaker 1: saying that. I hope everybody knows that when we talk

830
00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:31,400
Speaker 1: about these things, we're not saying the entire entirety of

831
00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:36,880
Speaker 1: the U N peacekeeping forces, but we're definitely happened. Uh

832
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:40,000
Speaker 1: And like so many things, it got reported and then

833
00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:42,080
Speaker 1: it sort of fell from the public eye. Do you

834
00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:44,800
Speaker 1: guys remember hearing about this a few years back. I

835
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:47,960
Speaker 1: never did, which is really surprising because I mean, I'm

836
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:53,000
Speaker 1: familiar with ox Fam, largely because Radiohead. We're always a

837
00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:55,640
Speaker 1: huge supporter of ox Fam, and like Tom York like

838
00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:59,600
Speaker 1: auctioned off some handwritten lyrics um to you know, the

839
00:51:59,640 --> 00:52:02,880
Speaker 1: proceeds going towards towards Oxfam, and they're like a hugely

840
00:52:03,560 --> 00:52:06,640
Speaker 1: respected and influential charity in the UK. And and that's

841
00:52:06,719 --> 00:52:09,480
Speaker 1: really mostly what I've what I've known about them, I've

842
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:11,440
Speaker 1: not I can't believe I haven't heard any of this. No,

843
00:52:11,560 --> 00:52:16,280
Speaker 1: I didn't realize um miners like children twelve and thirteen

844
00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:20,040
Speaker 1: year old kids were involved. That's I mean, the whole

845
00:52:20,040 --> 00:52:22,360
Speaker 1: thing is already disturbing, just the fact that sexual abuse

846
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:24,960
Speaker 1: of any kind was taking place, and it seemed to

847
00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:27,319
Speaker 1: be institutionalized by at least one I think they called

848
00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:31,080
Speaker 1: it one boss right at least in the recording um.

849
00:52:31,120 --> 00:52:34,680
Speaker 1: But then there were numerous other staff members. Oh god, yeah,

850
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:38,719
Speaker 1: I'm now you can. You can find reporting about this.

851
00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:42,840
Speaker 1: The Guardian has an excellent timeline. Uh. There there are

852
00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:46,960
Speaker 1: a number of other deep dive works of journalism on

853
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:54,520
Speaker 1: this analysis. In addition to this widespread systematized abuse, there

854
00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:57,960
Speaker 1: was also, as as you alluded to, met, there was

855
00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:01,920
Speaker 1: also definitely a cover up. I believe you are referring

856
00:53:01,960 --> 00:53:07,800
Speaker 1: to the country director in Haiti, Roland van how raman H.

857
00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:12,120
Speaker 1: He was. He was in charge of ox Fam activities

858
00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:16,160
Speaker 1: in Haiti at the time. He was instrumental in this

859
00:53:16,360 --> 00:53:19,359
Speaker 1: cover up. It seems to be the case we would

860
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:22,080
Speaker 1: have to dive in and do more research to make

861
00:53:22,120 --> 00:53:25,800
Speaker 1: a full episode to really get a sense of him. Uh.

862
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:28,880
Speaker 1: But a lot of this happened following the two thousand

863
00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:33,760
Speaker 1: and ten earthquake, which greaked enormous chaos upon the country

864
00:53:33,760 --> 00:53:38,759
Speaker 1: of Haiti, which already had infrastructure problems, resource extraction problems,

865
00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:41,719
Speaker 1: and so on and so on. No one thing that

866
00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:44,680
Speaker 1: stands out to our student listeners here is we've talked

867
00:53:44,680 --> 00:53:49,480
Speaker 1: about UN peacekeeping forces. And we've talked about ox FAM.

868
00:53:49,640 --> 00:53:54,480
Speaker 1: Ox FAM is the charitable organization you're talking about anonymous,

869
00:53:54,560 --> 00:54:00,000
Speaker 1: and it is a nonprofit leviathan. It's a nonprofit octopus. Uh.

870
00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:05,880
Speaker 1: It's made of twenty different independent charitable organizations that all

871
00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:10,000
Speaker 1: sort of team up in an Avenger's Justice League way

872
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:15,840
Speaker 1: in nineteen forty two to alleviate global poverty. They have

873
00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:20,959
Speaker 1: offices around the world. They have done a ton of

874
00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:25,600
Speaker 1: they have done a ton of really solid, inarguably important

875
00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:30,840
Speaker 1: and beneficial work. Uh. They have also they they have

876
00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:35,560
Speaker 1: also clearly covered up these sexual abuse scandals, not just

877
00:54:35,640 --> 00:54:39,880
Speaker 1: in Haiti but in Chad in other countries. And what's

878
00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:43,520
Speaker 1: strange here and what what should disturb people is the

879
00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:47,879
Speaker 1: lack of accountability because think about this. If you are

880
00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:51,000
Speaker 1: a predator the way that some of these people definitely were,

881
00:54:51,520 --> 00:54:55,560
Speaker 1: then you are naturally going to look for people who

882
00:54:55,560 --> 00:54:59,799
Speaker 1: are already having a terrible, terrible time, you know what

883
00:54:59,880 --> 00:55:03,240
Speaker 1: I mean. Like I would say, also, just to further

884
00:55:03,600 --> 00:55:07,120
Speaker 1: draw a bright line around this, ox FAN was doing this.

885
00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:10,960
Speaker 1: UN peacekeepers were doing this too. So ox FAM does

886
00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:14,520
Speaker 1: work with the UN, but the people who are peacekeepers,

887
00:55:14,560 --> 00:55:19,040
Speaker 1: who are the on the ground soldiers and forces. Those

888
00:55:19,080 --> 00:55:22,360
Speaker 1: folks were doing this too. This is very dirty, very quickly,

889
00:55:22,960 --> 00:55:28,320
Speaker 1: and it's it's terrible because UN staff like that number

890
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:32,600
Speaker 1: you made up anonymous sixty thousand events over the course

891
00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:34,880
Speaker 1: of a decade. That number is very real. That comes

892
00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:38,320
Speaker 1: from an estimate from a former senior official of the

893
00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:42,160
Speaker 1: United Nations, one Andrew McLeod. And it's just strange to

894
00:55:42,200 --> 00:55:45,839
Speaker 1: me that we don't hear too much about this now.

895
00:55:46,360 --> 00:55:49,440
Speaker 1: We know that in nineteen as far back in the

896
00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:52,040
Speaker 1: UN did a study about this which you can read

897
00:55:52,080 --> 00:55:55,560
Speaker 1: online called the Impact of Arms Conflict on Children, And

898
00:55:55,600 --> 00:55:59,480
Speaker 1: then they said the UN, NATO, ox FAM, you know,

899
00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:02,799
Speaker 1: they had their own investigations. Um. And there's a bit

900
00:56:02,800 --> 00:56:05,480
Speaker 1: of a bad apple argument here, which is that we

901
00:56:05,560 --> 00:56:09,720
Speaker 1: can't throw out all the good work that these organizations

902
00:56:09,719 --> 00:56:16,520
Speaker 1: are doing because of the actions of a few bad actors.

903
00:56:16,560 --> 00:56:19,720
Speaker 1: But the question of like how many is a few?

904
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:23,279
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Where is where is the

905
00:56:23,360 --> 00:56:27,919
Speaker 1: accountability and where is the justice for these people who

906
00:56:28,080 --> 00:56:32,000
Speaker 1: are suffering? Yeah? Um, I was looking at this in

907
00:56:33,080 --> 00:56:37,120
Speaker 1: that Guardian article, been the one ox fans disgraced Haiti

908
00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:41,080
Speaker 1: official left earlier post over sex parties. Uh, this is

909
00:56:41,080 --> 00:56:43,680
Speaker 1: a separate article that's linked off the one we were

910
00:56:43,680 --> 00:56:48,879
Speaker 1: looking at. Apparently that guy what's his name, Van hammer

911
00:56:49,080 --> 00:56:54,080
Speaker 1: not van Hammerstein, van Howard Miren. Uh, he apparently had

912
00:56:54,120 --> 00:56:59,279
Speaker 1: to leave another charity organization because of allegations that he

913
00:56:59,840 --> 00:57:03,759
Speaker 1: was apparently having sex parties. That's is a quotation from

914
00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:08,120
Speaker 1: the sex parties with local women while operating. Uh. And

915
00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:12,240
Speaker 1: I think Liberia following the timeline, it seems like ox

916
00:57:12,280 --> 00:57:15,560
Speaker 1: Fam at large investigated this with about the same like

917
00:57:15,719 --> 00:57:19,720
Speaker 1: fervor as the Catholic Church investigated child sex allegations. For

918
00:57:19,760 --> 00:57:22,120
Speaker 1: a time, you know, it felt like our real sweeping

919
00:57:22,160 --> 00:57:24,080
Speaker 1: under the rug kind of situation. You know, all this

920
00:57:24,160 --> 00:57:27,400
Speaker 1: happened back in two thousand eleven or the investigation rather,

921
00:57:27,720 --> 00:57:29,840
Speaker 1: and it was just kind of well, what are we

922
00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:34,640
Speaker 1: gonna do? Kind of Yeah, eventually was forced to resign,

923
00:57:35,040 --> 00:57:37,880
Speaker 1: But that's not the same thing as going to jail,

924
00:57:38,120 --> 00:57:40,200
Speaker 1: is it. We shall also say, you know, the u

925
00:57:40,360 --> 00:57:44,480
Speaker 1: N regularly partners with ox FAN to do what they

926
00:57:44,520 --> 00:57:49,000
Speaker 1: call implementation of programs and operations. But you're right now,

927
00:57:49,000 --> 00:57:53,840
Speaker 1: well this for something to have been going on this long, Uh,

928
00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:56,080
Speaker 1: there's no easy answer, and it does seem like there's

929
00:57:56,120 --> 00:58:00,440
Speaker 1: collusion within the organization, or at the very least, either

930
00:58:00,760 --> 00:58:04,400
Speaker 1: a huge lack of oversight to a level of incompetence

931
00:58:04,440 --> 00:58:08,640
Speaker 1: that is difficult to believe, or a tacit agreement to

932
00:58:08,680 --> 00:58:10,640
Speaker 1: look the other way. Man. This is the kind of

933
00:58:10,640 --> 00:58:15,120
Speaker 1: stuff that it's no wonder that something like Pizza Gate

934
00:58:15,560 --> 00:58:18,640
Speaker 1: gained so much traction, because there are real stories like

935
00:58:18,720 --> 00:58:21,480
Speaker 1: this that come out all the time, where like we're

936
00:58:21,480 --> 00:58:24,120
Speaker 1: talking about we told you guys already twelve thirteen year

937
00:58:24,120 --> 00:58:26,640
Speaker 1: olds were caught up in the stuff going on in Haiti.

938
00:58:26,880 --> 00:58:29,680
Speaker 1: We're I'm looking now at the stuff in two thousand

939
00:58:29,760 --> 00:58:33,640
Speaker 1: four in other countries where there were young there were

940
00:58:33,680 --> 00:58:38,880
Speaker 1: young people, not necessarily children, but very young people being

941
00:58:38,920 --> 00:58:41,680
Speaker 1: caught up with these same individuals who are all working

942
00:58:41,720 --> 00:58:46,720
Speaker 1: for charity to literally save the children, um and and

943
00:58:46,840 --> 00:58:51,480
Speaker 1: doing this um. You know, if the people who are

944
00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:54,400
Speaker 1: supposed to be doing some of the most noble and

945
00:58:54,840 --> 00:58:57,600
Speaker 1: best things that you can possibly do, this kind of

946
00:58:57,680 --> 00:59:01,280
Speaker 1: charity work, this kind of giving to somebody else who

947
00:59:01,320 --> 00:59:03,640
Speaker 1: doesn't have as much as you that you know, you

948
00:59:03,680 --> 00:59:05,640
Speaker 1: imagine that's some of the best people in the world.

949
00:59:05,680 --> 00:59:08,080
Speaker 1: But good God, for someone who's able to do that,

950
00:59:08,240 --> 00:59:11,760
Speaker 1: and this other thing simultaneously. It's just it boggles the

951
00:59:11,760 --> 00:59:15,200
Speaker 1: mind to the point where it makes you question every

952
00:59:14,600 --> 00:59:19,560
Speaker 1: human I mean that level of of taking advantage. You know,

953
00:59:19,640 --> 00:59:21,760
Speaker 1: when you're in a position where you're supposed to be

954
00:59:21,840 --> 00:59:24,520
Speaker 1: the helping hand that takes someone who's in a in

955
00:59:24,560 --> 00:59:27,080
Speaker 1: a bad place, and you're supposed to be that arm

956
00:59:27,160 --> 00:59:30,480
Speaker 1: that extends out and instead you reach out and slap them.

957
00:59:30,560 --> 00:59:33,280
Speaker 1: It's disheartening, is what it is. But I don't try

958
00:59:33,280 --> 00:59:35,440
Speaker 1: not to let it like wreck my whole view of

959
00:59:35,520 --> 00:59:37,840
Speaker 1: human because I know good people. They're good people, and

960
00:59:37,800 --> 00:59:39,240
Speaker 1: there are people that are doing good work and this

961
00:59:39,400 --> 00:59:42,920
Speaker 1: isn't representative of all of them. But God, when you

962
00:59:42,960 --> 00:59:45,520
Speaker 1: hear stories like this, it makes you take a pause.

963
00:59:45,960 --> 00:59:49,680
Speaker 1: So one thing I have founds that maybe um somewhat

964
00:59:49,720 --> 00:59:52,960
Speaker 1: mitigating news for you, anonymous and for all of us

965
00:59:53,080 --> 00:59:57,800
Speaker 1: listening along at home, is I looked into the history

966
00:59:57,800 --> 01:00:02,720
Speaker 1: of that figure, right the sixty over a decade. It's

967
01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:05,520
Speaker 1: definitely it's a large number of people over a long

968
01:00:05,600 --> 01:00:08,480
Speaker 1: amount of time, but when we look into some of

969
01:00:08,480 --> 01:00:12,880
Speaker 1: the specifics, it gets a little bit dodgy. So McLeod

970
01:00:13,080 --> 01:00:15,600
Speaker 1: the man we had said, the former senior official, he

971
01:00:15,680 --> 01:00:20,080
Speaker 1: came up with that figure. He originally he originally came

972
01:00:20,120 --> 01:00:22,560
Speaker 1: up with it in an interview in the Sun and

973
01:00:22,600 --> 01:00:25,800
Speaker 1: when the BBC asked him to walk through the calculus

974
01:00:25,840 --> 01:00:29,240
Speaker 1: of that, he hears what he did and he explained

975
01:00:29,240 --> 01:00:32,680
Speaker 1: it to him. It's pretty transparent. He said, okay. In

976
01:00:32,720 --> 01:00:37,800
Speaker 1: two thousand sixteen, the UN internal reports say that there

977
01:00:37,800 --> 01:00:41,440
Speaker 1: were about three hundred and eleven cases of sexual abuse

978
01:00:41,480 --> 01:00:46,160
Speaker 1: by peacekeepers during that year. And then he saw additional

979
01:00:46,280 --> 01:00:50,560
Speaker 1: UN research that said these numbers are probably higher. This

980
01:00:50,600 --> 01:00:52,680
Speaker 1: is this just the stuff that made it through the

981
01:00:52,720 --> 01:00:56,800
Speaker 1: reporting process, and so he decided he would double that

982
01:00:56,960 --> 01:01:02,000
Speaker 1: annual figure six and twenty two, right, and then he

983
01:01:02,120 --> 01:01:06,600
Speaker 1: decided he would multiply that by ten because generally only

984
01:01:06,600 --> 01:01:11,120
Speaker 1: about ten per cent of these sorts of cases are

985
01:01:11,480 --> 01:01:15,240
Speaker 1: reported in general, and that's what brought him to six

986
01:01:15,320 --> 01:01:18,480
Speaker 1: thousand and then he multiplied that by ten again to

987
01:01:18,640 --> 01:01:23,800
Speaker 1: cover a ten year period. Other people in the international

988
01:01:23,840 --> 01:01:26,840
Speaker 1: development and a community have they have a tough time

989
01:01:26,840 --> 01:01:29,360
Speaker 1: with this methodology, you know what I mean, because one

990
01:01:29,360 --> 01:01:31,840
Speaker 1: of the things we have to be very careful about

991
01:01:32,120 --> 01:01:35,920
Speaker 1: whenever reporting on crimes like this is not to be

992
01:01:36,080 --> 01:01:39,840
Speaker 1: too sensationalistic. That's That's how you get to your point, Matt,

993
01:01:39,920 --> 01:01:42,720
Speaker 1: That's how you find yourself at these sorts of Pizza

994
01:01:42,800 --> 01:01:47,200
Speaker 1: Gate situations. The stuff with the Catholic Church definitely real.

995
01:01:47,560 --> 01:01:51,760
Speaker 1: The Detro affair definitely real, and the Belgian government was

996
01:01:51,920 --> 01:01:54,560
Speaker 1: in on it. Not for nothing. Did three hundred thousand

997
01:01:54,640 --> 01:01:58,160
Speaker 1: people marched in that country. And this stuff, this hawks

998
01:01:58,200 --> 01:02:02,120
Speaker 1: fam um and stuff, it is real. It did happen.

999
01:02:02,560 --> 01:02:07,040
Speaker 1: But we owe it to the survivors of these horrendous

1000
01:02:07,040 --> 01:02:11,560
Speaker 1: events to be accurate, you know what I mean. It

1001
01:02:11,600 --> 01:02:15,560
Speaker 1: doesn't It doesn't help to turn it into some sort

1002
01:02:15,600 --> 01:02:22,880
Speaker 1: of sensationalistic, uh yellow journalism line unless we we have

1003
01:02:23,120 --> 01:02:27,000
Speaker 1: the proof, and we need the proof as a species,

1004
01:02:27,400 --> 01:02:30,320
Speaker 1: because we have to arm ourselves with information to prevent

1005
01:02:30,440 --> 01:02:35,640
Speaker 1: things like this from happening again. We cannot emphasize this

1006
01:02:35,880 --> 01:02:39,560
Speaker 1: enough before These people have been victimized. They're living in

1007
01:02:39,640 --> 01:02:43,640
Speaker 1: some of the most challenging situations on the planet, and

1008
01:02:43,680 --> 01:02:47,960
Speaker 1: many times they've been born into these situations. It's stunning

1009
01:02:48,000 --> 01:02:51,480
Speaker 1: to me because to your point, the entire, the entire

1010
01:02:51,560 --> 01:02:55,360
Speaker 1: mission of these people on paper is to help make

1011
01:02:55,400 --> 01:02:59,160
Speaker 1: the world a slightly better place. How dare you do

1012
01:02:59,280 --> 01:03:05,600
Speaker 1: the opposite now? Well, said Ben, Well, sorry, gosh, you

1013
01:03:05,640 --> 01:03:08,840
Speaker 1: know what, maybe it's maybe it's a all the coffee

1014
01:03:09,320 --> 01:03:12,120
Speaker 1: actually a little on the fence. This is one of

1015
01:03:12,160 --> 01:03:14,720
Speaker 1: those that's important for us to cover. It's very much

1016
01:03:14,760 --> 01:03:17,440
Speaker 1: the mission of the show. It's a conspiracy, it's a

1017
01:03:17,480 --> 01:03:22,600
Speaker 1: cover up. It's real. Um. But also it's a very

1018
01:03:22,720 --> 01:03:26,280
Speaker 1: terrible thing. You know. We go back and forth sometimes

1019
01:03:26,520 --> 01:03:30,200
Speaker 1: on episodes like this. You know, if we make these

1020
01:03:30,200 --> 01:03:34,439
Speaker 1: full episodes on what what we can do in an

1021
01:03:34,480 --> 01:03:38,280
Speaker 1: our position on this little podcast of ours, are we

1022
01:03:38,320 --> 01:03:41,600
Speaker 1: are we helping this situation? You know what I mean? Um,

1023
01:03:41,800 --> 01:03:45,160
Speaker 1: that's a question that we try to address in each case.

1024
01:03:45,320 --> 01:03:50,680
Speaker 1: But all to say you are correct, Anonymous, The story

1025
01:03:50,720 --> 01:03:55,000
Speaker 1: you read about is unfortunately very real. For ox FAM's part,

1026
01:03:55,920 --> 01:03:59,560
Speaker 1: ox FAM in specific, you can visit ox Fam America

1027
01:03:59,680 --> 01:04:03,080
Speaker 1: dot org and you will see that they have acknowledge

1028
01:04:03,800 --> 01:04:07,240
Speaker 1: the events in Haiti at least. They have also instituted

1029
01:04:07,320 --> 01:04:12,040
Speaker 1: some significant steps to address the problems that they say,

1030
01:04:12,200 --> 01:04:15,440
Speaker 1: quote allowed the events in Haiti to happen. So they

1031
01:04:15,440 --> 01:04:19,120
Speaker 1: have a commission reviewing cases of sexual misconduct, abuse of power.

1032
01:04:19,680 --> 01:04:23,840
Speaker 1: They're putting more resources into keeping people safe, uh, and

1033
01:04:23,960 --> 01:04:27,120
Speaker 1: they're working with other people and the other peers and

1034
01:04:27,200 --> 01:04:30,240
Speaker 1: groups in the development sector to try to tackle this

1035
01:04:30,360 --> 01:04:34,160
Speaker 1: kind of abuse overall. You can also read a full

1036
01:04:34,240 --> 01:04:39,360
Speaker 1: copy of their final internal report on the events UH

1037
01:04:39,400 --> 01:04:44,320
Speaker 1: and the sexual misconduct and other behavior during this time

1038
01:04:44,360 --> 01:04:48,840
Speaker 1: in Haiti. So I would say also just a brief

1039
01:04:49,440 --> 01:04:52,760
Speaker 1: word of thanks and encouragement to the people who are

1040
01:04:52,800 --> 01:04:57,240
Speaker 1: compiling those reports. To the people who are doing this, UH,

1041
01:04:57,400 --> 01:05:00,200
Speaker 1: who have done this, look into their own organization and

1042
01:05:00,280 --> 01:05:04,080
Speaker 1: think about every think about every show about an institution,

1043
01:05:04,160 --> 01:05:07,000
Speaker 1: whether it's a very large religious one like the Catholic Church,

1044
01:05:07,080 --> 01:05:10,520
Speaker 1: or whether it's a institution like law enforcement. The people

1045
01:05:10,520 --> 01:05:13,640
Speaker 1: who are internal affairs, who have to go in and

1046
01:05:13,680 --> 01:05:16,080
Speaker 1: ask questions of their own people, they're always kind of

1047
01:05:16,120 --> 01:05:18,680
Speaker 1: the bad guys, right Like that's how they're depicted in

1048
01:05:19,120 --> 01:05:23,480
Speaker 1: What the Wire and countless other cops shows. UH. So

1049
01:05:23,520 --> 01:05:25,400
Speaker 1: these folks are doing the real life version of that.

1050
01:05:25,680 --> 01:05:28,360
Speaker 1: I'm grateful that these kind of things are around, but

1051
01:05:28,800 --> 01:05:31,800
Speaker 1: we have to do better and with that we know

1052
01:05:31,880 --> 01:05:34,360
Speaker 1: we're running along when it gives space. We didn't want

1053
01:05:34,360 --> 01:05:37,600
Speaker 1: to be this last story to be something thrown away

1054
01:05:37,640 --> 01:05:39,520
Speaker 1: at the end, but we didn't want to save it

1055
01:05:39,600 --> 01:05:42,920
Speaker 1: for that disclaimer. We would like to hear your experience

1056
01:05:43,080 --> 01:05:47,440
Speaker 1: if you have worked in international development, if you have

1057
01:05:47,720 --> 01:05:50,640
Speaker 1: worked with in G O S or if you've worked

1058
01:05:50,680 --> 01:05:53,760
Speaker 1: with ox FAM, what is the culture like, what was

1059
01:05:53,840 --> 01:05:56,840
Speaker 1: your experience? How much of this story we're just taking

1060
01:05:56,840 --> 01:05:58,320
Speaker 1: a brief look at it now, how much of it

1061
01:05:58,360 --> 01:06:02,040
Speaker 1: has been sensationalized by the media. Are we not hearing

1062
01:06:02,080 --> 01:06:05,960
Speaker 1: the whole story? Still? If so, let us know. I

1063
01:06:06,120 --> 01:06:09,360
Speaker 1: think you also to Steve, let us know about your

1064
01:06:09,400 --> 01:06:13,440
Speaker 1: experience with psilocybin another hallucinogens in so far as you

1065
01:06:13,480 --> 01:06:17,640
Speaker 1: are comfortable, uh, And we would we would love to

1066
01:06:17,680 --> 01:06:20,800
Speaker 1: hear it, especially if it helped you address depression, if

1067
01:06:20,800 --> 01:06:25,360
Speaker 1: it helped you address addiction of some sort. Uh. We

1068
01:06:25,400 --> 01:06:28,280
Speaker 1: would just love to love to hear your personal experience.

1069
01:06:28,560 --> 01:06:32,960
Speaker 1: And also, hey, if you're working for UH. If you're

1070
01:06:33,000 --> 01:06:38,240
Speaker 1: working for was it musculature? Yeah, if you're worry of

1071
01:06:38,440 --> 01:06:42,720
Speaker 1: muscular your former employee of of one of one of

1072
01:06:42,800 --> 01:06:46,520
Speaker 1: the Five Eyes programs, then I don't know, do you

1073
01:06:46,560 --> 01:06:48,360
Speaker 1: need to let us know? Like do we even need

1074
01:06:48,400 --> 01:06:50,840
Speaker 1: to tell you where to find this? You already go? Yeah,

1075
01:06:51,040 --> 01:06:54,080
Speaker 1: just you know, show yourself on one of our screens

1076
01:06:54,120 --> 01:06:57,320
Speaker 1: matrix style one night in UH yeah, Gilli will hang

1077
01:06:58,080 --> 01:07:01,760
Speaker 1: um good Gali. Hey, I'm gonna I'm gonna do the

1078
01:07:01,760 --> 01:07:04,920
Speaker 1: phone number. Okay, sorry, this this thing has me in

1079
01:07:04,920 --> 01:07:08,560
Speaker 1: a dark pit. Let's let's keep going. Um. If you

1080
01:07:08,600 --> 01:07:11,440
Speaker 1: want to get in touch with us, like like your

1081
01:07:11,480 --> 01:07:14,400
Speaker 1: fellow listeners did today, please call our number. It is

1082
01:07:14,480 --> 01:07:18,240
Speaker 1: one eight three three std w y t K. You've

1083
01:07:18,280 --> 01:07:20,320
Speaker 1: got three minutes to leave a message. You can leave

1084
01:07:20,360 --> 01:07:23,720
Speaker 1: as many as you want. Uh. You know it's helpful

1085
01:07:23,760 --> 01:07:28,360
Speaker 1: for us from a time perspective if you leave one concise,

1086
01:07:28,640 --> 01:07:33,160
Speaker 1: really powerful message that we we would appreciate that if

1087
01:07:33,160 --> 01:07:35,720
Speaker 1: you could do that. If you don't want to call us,

1088
01:07:35,840 --> 01:07:38,960
Speaker 1: you can always find us on social media and one

1089
01:07:38,960 --> 01:07:41,600
Speaker 1: of the best places there's on Facebook, believe it or not.

1090
01:07:41,640 --> 01:07:44,680
Speaker 1: After we just talked about giving all your your info

1091
01:07:44,760 --> 01:07:47,720
Speaker 1: up to them, check out here's where it gets crazy,

1092
01:07:48,200 --> 01:07:53,240
Speaker 1: our community page. It is fantastic, amazing mods, great community.

1093
01:07:53,360 --> 01:07:55,520
Speaker 1: We love hanging out and talking there and you can

1094
01:07:55,520 --> 01:07:58,439
Speaker 1: talk with your your fellow listeners about this in any

1095
01:07:58,480 --> 01:08:00,919
Speaker 1: other topic we've discussed on the show. If you don't

1096
01:08:00,920 --> 01:08:02,600
Speaker 1: want to do that and you're a little bit more

1097
01:08:02,680 --> 01:08:04,960
Speaker 1: find yourself in sort of more of an old school zone,

1098
01:08:05,200 --> 01:08:06,520
Speaker 1: You can get in touch with us on the Internet

1099
01:08:06,840 --> 01:08:10,280
Speaker 1: via a more old fashioned way that is via email.

1100
01:08:10,480 --> 01:08:32,920
Speaker 1: Where we are conspiracy at iHeart radio dot com. Stuff

1101
01:08:32,960 --> 01:08:34,840
Speaker 1: they Don't want you to know is a production of

1102
01:08:34,920 --> 01:08:37,880
Speaker 1: I heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio,

1103
01:08:38,040 --> 01:08:40,839
Speaker 1: visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

1104
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Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.